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UPDATE!! And The TERMINATOR Rights Go To...Hunh??
Merrick again...
THIS piece in Variety reveals another wrinkle in the matter: TERMINATOR rights winner Pacificor is now negotiating with Sony and Lionsgate to sell one or both of them the rights - presumably at a cost greater than the same rights were purchased for yesterday. I suggest both companies could nab the rights because of this mention in the Variety piece...
Sony and Lionsgate had combined their bids during Monday's auction.
>>>ORIGINAL ARTICLE FOLLOWS<<<
Merrick here...
Nikki Finke posted an interesting article about a battle to nab the TERMINATOR rights from Halcyon (initial sales details HERE).
Seems Sony was a serious (and frustrated) contender, as was Lionsgate - who was planning to heal the franchise by going 'back to the basics' with emotional stories that used FX as a secondary consideration.
Alas, the outcome of said negotiations appears less-than-auspicious.
Halcyon Holding Corp accepted the $29.5 million bid from, of all parties, the debtholder which pushed it into bankruptcy, Santa Barbara-based hedge fund Pacificor. (This is the same Pacificor whom Halcyon accused in a lawsuit of extortion, bribery, and fraud and demanded $30M in damages.)
Tonight, Sony and Lionsgate dropped out at just under $29.5 million when it became clear that Pacificor "was willing to pay almost any amount of money for Terminator," an insider tells me. Halcyon will receive $5 million for every Terminator movie made from now on, as well as retains the rich revenue streams from the movies Terminator 3 and 4.
...says Nikki HERE.
'Tis an odd sounding move to be sure, but perhaps it's not all that surprising given Nikki's assertion that Pacificor's acquisition of TERMINATOR allows seller Halcyon to erase its debts to Pacificor - as well as other creditors. Which is pretty huge for Halcyon I should think, and makes one wonder if this maneuver was more or less fated all along.
--- Follow Merrick on Twitter! ---
Tonight, Sony and Lionsgate dropped out at just under $29.5 million when it became clear that Pacificor "was willing to pay almost any amount of money for Terminator," an insider tells me. Halcyon will receive $5 million for every Terminator movie made from now on, as well as retains the rich revenue streams from the movies Terminator 3 and 4.
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+ Expand All
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MORE IMPORTANTLY- Can we finally say fuck off to Mc 'FUCKED up the Terminator sequel so bad' G?
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Sounds like shit to me
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Sale price sounds sounds like chump change to James Cameron. I guess he could care less about Terminator now.
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Lol.
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Nice!
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I mean, you have A-list actors almost commanding that much for one film and for a mere 30 mil you can have the rights to the entire Terminator franchise? Unless McG's shitstorm of a flick really killed the desire for any future films. I don't know. It just seems like a real bargain when you consider how much these movies made in the past.
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...from Chris Nolan! Nikke Finke is also reporting this...
http://tinyurl.com/ygrplm9
THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and SUPERMAN reboot! Sounds great! -
Feb 09, 2010 10:58:20 AM CST
Nikke Finke posted an intersting SUPERMAN bit too, Merrick
by yackbacker
I know you're furiously typing up a post on that story as we speak. :)
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All your Terminators are belong to us.
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WHAT?!?
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fucked.
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Uh hello Harrrrrry... this is fairly big IMO, can we get a talkbalk? I like that hes not directing just helping. Id say at this point ignore an origin story, but maybe show a glimpse of Brainiacs involvement in the destruction of Krypton similar to the animated series, perhaps even elude to Darkseid noticing earth because of Kal els warp signiture. Have part one focus on Brainiac, maybe Metallo, Parasite for part 2, then do Darkseid for a third. Just please, for shits sake, dont make Lex the main villain.
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Repostin this here...
I like that hes not directing just helping. Id say at this point ignore an origin story, but maybe show a glimpse of Brainiacs involvement in the destruction of Krypton similar to the animated series, perhaps even elude to Darkseid noticing earth because of Kal els warp signiture. Have part one focus on Brainiac, maybe Metallo, Parasite for part 2, then do Darkseid for a third.
Just please, for shits sake, dont make Lex the main villain. -
Let's reboot it with alternate timelines that get the story back onto the original track. As in, none of that T3, T4 bullshit happened. We pick up right after T2. Despite destroying the T-800, Judgment Day happens and we get to see the future war we all want. Two movies, with the final movie ending with Reese and the original T-800 entering the time machine to kill/save Sarah Connor. The End.
That ones for free Hollywood... -
It's plasma...
"phase 4 plasma rifle with a 40 watt range" -
can you put this doubt i have to rest once and for all??
is darkseid's name pronounced darkSIDE or darkSEED? i don't watch the cartoons and have never heard his name spoken.
and by asking you, of course, im implying that you're a buff in the matter of all things superman :) -
who's watching these shit movies?
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in all companies there is a law. its called the patent law. once you create something it automatically gets patetend by the company. Cameron does not own the rites to terminator and he ever did. it was mario kassar and andrew j vajna. they sold the rights to halcyon who sold the rights after thier terminator movie tanked at the box office. kassar and vanja's company was Carloco they produced the terminator movies with Lightstorm entertainment. but the rights of the movie belonged to them. tis true cameron wrote the first two films with william wisher and harlon ellison. and anyway terminator was based on the work of a woman who sued and won 300 million dollars and her script was called the third eye and silver lifted that wholssale to make matrix.
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TERMINATOR: SALVATION 2 please!
The future vision is there. The cast is there. I want to see more - more war! Stay the course! Make the future war trilogy!
TS had a rather interesting 2 lead dynamic, and a sequel could keep with that. Only this time the two leads are John Connor and Kyle Reese.
What an interesting dynamic that could be. A son that is actually the older, senior figure - and a father who is the younger guy in his thrall. That would be something 'never seen before' in movies and could make for an incredible, memorable storyline.
Pls make this movie. If McG wants to do it fine, if not someone else. But keep Christian Bale, keep Anton Yelchin and keep the assets from TS (props, costumes, fx models) and the fx crew who did a brilliant job.
Fuck those that say TERMINATOR is dead. That red light in the eye is coming back on... -
Feb 09, 2010 11:29:44 AM CST
emeraldboy you dont know what the fuck youre talking about
by judge dredds fresh undies
and its 'phased plasma rifle in a 40 watt range'
IAmLegolas, the rich revenue stream probably comes from boxsets :p -
Because at this point, my interest in more sequels from either one is basically the same. The only thing that would be cool would be a steampunk one where the Terminator goes back to kill Sarah Connor's great-grandfather Obadiah.
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and sony dropped out!? That's nothing considering what a new terminator would make at the box office. Thought would be worth a lot more than that. Does that include profit on previous terminator films or just new ones? even just new ones that's a hell of a small price.
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Just show us the god-damned awesome Future War with laser guns and skull-caked grounds, damnit!
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Do something original for once.
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I don't care about Terminator anymore unless they bring TSCC back for a third - and final - season.
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not to read it all before posting. it's terminators 3 and 4 plus new ones.
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so why buy the rights? The Terminator franchise ended with T2 as far as I'm concerned. Everything else is just a cash grab by cunts who don't care about making good, entertaining movies
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emerald boy never knows what he is talking about let alone the rest of us. I understand an irish drunk better than his insane posts. He just types facts in one big block of unintelligible nonsense. It's like the ramberlings of a madman written on the wall of a looney bin in shit.
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Damaged goods or not in your eyes, it still makes a shit load of money for someone.
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for us geeks?
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contracts out to a studio to get the fims made? I'm not real big on this side of the business, but I would assume that any tv shows, books, movies or games are basically rented to whoever would make them, and then Pacificor sits back and collects the money?
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I initially wanted a TSCC 3rd season but even that probably wouldnt be as good as the first two... Maybe do something different like an animated series on HBO or something...
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Its GOOD NEWS bc it means McG will never get to make that SHITTY-ASS-IDEA for a sequel in which the Terminators go back in time to London around 2012 to start a war in modern times, with John Connor going back to warn everyone and lead the fight against all the future machines. What an idiotic grad-school fanboy idea. But it could be BAD NEWS bc the new rights-holders could, I guess, in theory REMAKE The Terminator (which is an awful idea in my opinion). Or they could do whatever they hell they want, which conjures up all sorts of nightmare scenarios in my mind. But, it could be GOOD NEWS in that they decide to do a sequel to Terminator Salvation that makes sense, ie, Synet has created plasma guns that the resistance steals and uses against the Terminators, the human resistance is failing, they have lesser numbers, etc, but John is a great military strategist and is fighting back, causing SkyNet to rethink its strategy and start looking into time travel as a way out... THAT is what we want to see.
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Feb 09, 2010 11:53:21 AM CST
Sell it to Disney and cast one of the Jonas brothers.
by bob cryptonight
That's the direction these FX films are going anyway...
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D.Vader, yes - im sure there was orignally talk about the future war trilogy. The London idea was pretty stupid tho.
The only way I can see this being watchable and pulling in audiences is if they make the second part of that future war trilogy. As you say THAT is the shit we want to see, right? -
Isn't it funny that Pacificor of all groups ends up grabbing the rights? No one finds this strange? Seems to me Halcyon and Pacificor were just attempting to stir up nterest before the solved this on their own. Yet another reason to get rid of hedge funds!
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and two shit Terminator movies. If James Cameron isn't involved it's pointless. The story has been told. And we've seen what happens when fuckhead moron producers try and give the fans more of "the mythology".
Let it rest in peace. -
I don't mind Terminator Salvation as seeing the last vestiges of organized military and what it was like before the T-800s. But now that they have been created, I want to see SkyNet up the ante with plasma rifles that don't require bullets, human terrorists stealing technology to fight back, etc. I want to see the Future War we were somewhat promised.
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I hope Pacificor is going after SCHWARZENEGGER the same way Vajna and Kassar did for TERMINATOR 3. Get Arnie to play the older soldier of the future wars. The one that was used to model the T-800. Use time travel and bring it to present day ala TERMINATOR 2. Pacificor can't be that fucking dumb and reboot without ARNOLD. T3 grossed 433 million because of SCHWARZENEGGER. T4 grossed 380 million without his name....then again, they sold tv commercials overseas with ARNOLD in them so that helped. GET ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER. Offer him 80 million upfront, but get him!!!
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i hope he's learned his lesson. (doubt it)
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... though I do agree there were some weaknesses here and there. I think a followup to TS is warranted but they do need to get more inside the mind and emotions of John Conner this time around. I'd also like to see him and his wife actually interact more as a loving couple and not feel like they are a couple on the fringe of seperation. I also dislike the fact his wife's pregnant yet it serves no actual role in the movie. It feels like a leftover from some sub plot that was otherwise scrapped. I also found the heart transplant at the end to be a bit much to swallow. Lastly, though I love the visual style, the future was really fucked up but had none of the depressing overtones Cameron's showed. Where is the suffering such as the crying children huddled in the rubble hanging on to survival by a mere thread? Overall, I really liked McG's spin that the future has been changed so much due to the events of the past movies. Lastly, Moon Bloodgood needs to show more titties next time around as that chick is HOT!!!
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I dont get it. How can Hollywood continue to deny movies make a profit, if people bid for revenue streams?
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... as an old soldier the T-800's likeness is based on (NOT the Sargaent Candy outtake of T3 though). What's funny is he could play himself, a former California governor who while still in office used his political lobbying muscle to acquire federal funds for the struggling California-based company Cyberdyne Systems.
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Where Halcyon's wife answers the door in her robe, and a leering Pacificor offers her more and more money for successively risque-er peaks and gropes under her robe, until finally she gives him everything for $29.5 million. Hubby's line when he returns home: "Hey honey, Pacificor told me he dropped by earlier and left that $30 mil. he owed me..."
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I have a 60 page treatment in a notebook...
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And I'm kind of glad Lionsgate didn't win out simply because the term "back to basics" is a watered down corporate speak for "reboot".
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the terminator franchise
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and love it!
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Feb 09, 2010 1:19:09 PM CST
I suppose it doesn't really matter who owns the rights
by revenge_of_fett
It's not like Pacificor is going to decide to make Terminator film by themselves. They will hire industry professionals to do it. And that's what would have happened no matter who held the rights. I do wish Sony would have gotten them though because they've done a pretty good job with the Bond franchise since acquiring it a few years ago.
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Does anyone really know anyone pining for another Terminator film?
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P8ulling a Star Trek on Terminator? You mean, turning it into a dumbed down, plot incoherent, emo-teen TWILIGHT? How's that a good thing? I'd rather see Terminator dead once and for all then to see it turned into another TWILIGHT.
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No wonder it went for such a pitiful sum. The concept hasn't stood the test of time. Now imagine if Lucas announced he was selling the rights to SW. The bidding would start at $500m. Cameron did not make a timeless concept with Terminator, it only resonates with a certain generation (i.e the 18-35yr olds in 1984).
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Terminator was a causality loop- you cannot ever change destiny. Terminator 2 was the opposite- you change the future a hell of a lot. They both make great stories and great ideas, but after the second movie there was nowhere left to go. The only real "unexplored territory" is what happens to John Conner AFTER he sends the protectors back in time. Once he send back reese and a reprogrammed Arnie, there is a huge question mark about what happens to him. Also, this is the only point in JC's life that he MIGHT DIE at anytime because his destiny has been fulfilled once he finishes the time travel stuff. The fact that Salvation was like ten years before this pivotal moment made it irrelevant because we knew from the outset that everyone important would survive.
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This horse is dead. It's time for a new horse. They need to take the basic concept and COMPLETELY RE-DO IT WITH A NEW STORY AND CHARACTERS.
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Cameron already did it with Ripley,he can do it with Arnold.
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"Terminator was a causality loop- you cannot ever change destiny. Terminator 2 was the opposite- you change the future a hell of a lot. They both make great stories and great ideas, but after the second movie there was nowhere left to go."
Well, you could take the opposite analysis: once you've made two stories that contradict each other so blatantly, you might as well make anything you like, as the laws of logic clearly don't hold in this narrative universe.
People usually rattle on about how Terminator 3 ruined the franchise, but T2 was the one that messed everything up in terms of the logic.
To paraphrase RedLetterMedia says in his excellent review of The Phantom Menace:
"This is the moment where the Terminator saga is now damaged totally beyond repair. The lapses in common sense and logic begin to compound on the story, and now it is broken." -
No no no. I meant get the storyline back on track. As in take in a different direction more inline with the original plotline. Let's get right into the fucking future war. Brutal, dark, bloody. That's what I want anyway.
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This franchise now seems to be an excuse to get investors out of debt. Who cares anymore? Terminator 1 and 2 will always be Terminator - the rest of the nonsense is nothing but a heartless cash cow.
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Feb 09, 2010 2:43:44 PM CST
Merrick, could you at least get her fucking name right:
by force_mccockin
It's NIKKI Finke, with an 'I' not Nikke. If you're going to quote somebody, at least take the time to get their fucking name right, you fucking idiot.
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If they won't pay $29.5M for the rights....why do they suddenly think they will pay more than that?
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"Terminator 1 and 2 will always be Terminator - the rest of the nonsense is nothing but a heartless cash cow."
It always amazes me that most people don't treat T2 as very much part of the heartless cash cow group. Why not? It was made on the back of Cameron's only relative flop (The Abyss) and was designed to be just about as commercial as possible. It's a retread of the original that turns Arnie from the villain into the good guy, a comedic good guy at that, and it turns a story about facing the unstoppable arrival of death and darkness with stoicism and bravery ("There's a storm coming in") with a cop-out story in which that darkness doesn't have to be faced, but can simply be switched off instead (contrary to the tacit assertions of the original, i.e. that we're inside a 100% deterministic, unstoppable universe).
T2 is *every bit* the dumbed-down, lowest common denominator Hollywood popcorn movie that T3 is. -
The T-800 joins a crack forensic team and solves cases.
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How about a dream sequence? We do some flashbacks of T3 & T4 scenes, then we CUT TO:
Int. DAY -HOTEL ROOM
John Conner wakes up from his dream. We realize non of it was real. It was only a dream. Connor gets up from his bed, opens up the blinds to see...A huge post blast nuclear explosion right over down down LA...
CONNER
"Oh fuck me raw...."
CUT TO:
Into Credits..."TERMINATOR 5: THE SHIT HAS HIT THE FAN" -
movies plus the tv series. this franchise has nowhere left to go. they cant keep making movies and then selling the rights to franchise.
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..twanging that sad little one string out of tune banjo in his parents basement. Nobody gives a flying fuck if you think ST is dumb because you're an asshole. GETTIT dickhead?
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Great, need to trash someone's fuckin' lights now.
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T-800 replaces Simon as the newest judge. Contestants are vaporized after being voted off the show.
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Not the public, that's for sure. NOTHING ever got to the public any more. Maybe, some day, we'll have a government pass copyright laws which will remember that public domain is a good thing, too. Yeah, I know, never happen ...
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They want Sony and Lionsgate to pay more than they were willing to buy the Terminator franchise? I'd just say "fuck you" and move along.
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Feb 09, 2010 3:41:40 PM CST
Terminator 3 should have been made prior to 2000
by judge dredds fresh undies
with Cameron directing and writing. I think the series is beyond salvation(LOL!1!) at this point.
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but they need to hire a director that can direct actors and help create a strong script, or at least reject a bad one. The one thing that pulls me out of a movie is bad performances, and Salvation had that in spades. And I know Salvation's script was cut and pasted after Bale came on, but that's the problem, McG was so concerned with having star power and geek cred he scarificed the quality of his movie. They need to bring someone on with an unflinching vision that isn't afraid to fight for it.
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that Sarah and Connor have changed the future? Its true that Cameron had made the alternative ending where Sarah was old and Connor a congressman (you can see it in youtube) which clearly showed that you can control your destiny and change it,but thank god Cameron changed his mind,and changed it to the final,more ambiguous ending.
In the final scene when we watch the road lines (great symbolism of the lines of our fate),there is no clear and definitive proof that they changed the future.they just hope that the did it,and time will tell.
and another thing.Reese in the T1 tells Sarah that he comes from a possible future,he does not know how time-traveling works and then he tells the message from her future son,that we made our fate etc.so even from T1 its obvious,that Cameron does provide us with a slight indication that at the end it is possible to change the future,even though some things are pre-determined. -
Unless Sony & Lionsgate don't pay more. A lot of goofy wrangling for a franchise that's been killed to two mediocre sequels.
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This franchise is done. There is no way in hell that a FIFTH film is suddenly going to turn stuff around and return to the heights of the first two. Can anyone think of a decent series of films that went above three in number? Face it, this is a dead horse, just as much as Indiana Jones.
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Actually, I wonder if the strategy might have been to outbid any price Sony offered, count their (currently noncollectable) debts against the price paid then turn around and sell the rights to the next highest bidder at a slight loss. They would effectively be queue-jumping other debters by getting a better cents-on-the-dollar return on existing debt they "pay" than they would get by waiting for the bankruptcy liquidation to go through.
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Just checking. I thought all the bitterness was McG saying he was bringing it back to present time.
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Feb 09, 2010 4:39:03 PM CST
I DO have bitterness that McG wants to bring it back to the pres
by d.vader
That's a spectacularly stupid idea.
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Right on, you greedy fuckers. Respect.
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If it can mimic anything, why did it have to strip that cop of his clothes and wear them? Surely it could just scan the cop and mimic the uniform instantaneously. And later when it gets shot, how could it repair the bullet holes on the clothes? And...when it gets drenched in liquid nitrogen and turns into a statue, surely the T-800 must know the best thing to do is to carry it away and dump it somewhere, instead of shooting and splintering it, thus allowing the pieces to heat and reform.
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but I liked Salvation. I guess I can see why it bombed, the trailer did kind of have a 'meh' vibe going on, and the last one sucked, and the critics reamed it along with you geeks, but c'mon. Salvation was a pretty good action flick.
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I've just realised how nerdy these questions are.
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seems pretty low. you could make a semi-low budget terminator movie and make that amount back in your sleep.
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It did not physically take them. Troll alert.
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took the cops clothes??
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I see what you mean. But if it mimicked the cop's uniform, why didn't it mimic the cop's face as well? Surely that would have made more sense...?
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is that he had a gun in the holster, but he was supposed to only be able to make stabbing weapons, no complex weapons. I guess it's possible that he stole the gun, but that means that when he changed back from the floor, into the guard, then back into the cop, he would have had to store the gun somewhere.
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they should have had a random guy play the terminator through the portal, then have Robert Patrick play the cop and the then the terminator for the rest of the film.
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You couldn't be more wrong.
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Likewise.
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the audience will get disoriented if the villain starts changing faces throughout the movie.it doesnt matter if the first cop had the face of Patrick,because then you could make the argument why he didnt use the face of the fat guard throughout the whole clinic sequence.
another thing is that by giving a specific face to the villain,he adds him the sense of individuality and uniqueness.T1000 does not become just a random faceless machine,he becomes a character with a recognizable face and the personality the actor infuses to him. -
Feb 09, 2010 6:10:06 PM CST
Is this another case of Hollywood running out of original ideas?
by tom_bombadil
Is Hollywood so out of new ideas that they can't just try something new? I want something fresh and creative not all these sequels, remakes, reboots, etc. We've seen 4 Terminator movies lets move on already.
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AND PIE
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Even if he doesn't want to do any work on it any more, he'd have a revenue stream and an Executive Producer credit, and a merchandising and spin-off empire. He doesn't want to be George Lucas?
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...before this series is completely dead? If it isn't already. I'm sure it's on track for a reboot sometime in the future. This is yet more proof the makers of film care very little about the characters and stories than the average movie-fan. I wonder if the fans equivalent of treating movies like Hollywood is to download pirate movies? That seems about as disrespectful to a film as I can think of.
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Pocket change to him now.
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There isn't a single salvageable thing in that movie. This franchise is utterly ruined. I can't believe there are people who liked it. You could tell me you molest children and I would be less shocked.
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has his own Star Wars franchise.its called Avatar.unless he fucks up with the sequel,but i doubt it.
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Terminator has permeated pop culture. Not to the same degree as SW or Indy Jones, but it's up there. I doubt Avatar will become a pop culture reference. Qutable line? "I'll be back" trumps "You're not in Kansas anymore". Memorable scenes? The metal exoskeleton rising from the flames trumps anything in Avatar. Memorable characters? Sarah Connor trumps Neytiri, Kyle Reese trumps Jake Sully, and the T-800 trumps Col Quatrich. Cameron's pop culture triumph was Terminator, not Avatar.
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Feb 09, 2010 8:20:10 PM CST
Avatar is most certainly a pop culture phenomenonn
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
And only the truly foolish will continue to deny it (hint, hint). Its stock will only continue to grow once the sequels come out.Cameron wouldn't touch Terminator with a ten foot pole now, and who could blame him? He's got bigger fish to fry.
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Avatar blew a lot of ass. What an over hyped lump of dog shit that thing was. The acting was fucking made for TV horrible and the script was a mish mash of other movies that were done much better. This was a 300 million dollar sci fi original.
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and i understand why Cameron doest want to have any relation with the franchise.First the Ellison case,then the studio who couldnt wait for him and turned his creation into a turd.its the logical thing to do,to stay the fuck away from it.
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2.2b and counting.and remember that you the haters,brough the boxoffice argument before the premiere of the film.soooo my condolences.
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Avatar is bigger than Terimnator ever was, both in terms of grosses and global and demographic reach. Terminator is hugely famous, but largely because of the amount of time its existed in the pop culture zeitgeist. They were R rated films that, while having a large audience, stil largely appealed to the male sci fi and action crowd. T1, in the 80's, was, to some degree, a growing cult film, with T2 cementing the thing as an iconic phenomenon. But even to this day, there will have been kids of this generation who haven't even seen any terminator movie, but I guarantee they'll have seen Avatar. Avata's net is wider. I do not favor one over the other, but Avatar is simply bigger, has wider appeal (kids/women/sci fi fans) and its ramifications will be deeper and more widespreadly felt. It is absolutely the 21st century Star Wars.
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*sniff*
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Who was that nutball who insisted to me that Avatar made money only because there was nothing else on (which was untrue anyway). yes, all 2.2 billion dollars of it (over a billion more than its nearest competitor which isn't titanic). Let's just attribute that massive gulf to 3D ticket premiums and inflation shall we? (chuckle). The haters must exist in some drug-addled la la land. They're a great source of comedy, I'll say that.
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"Terminator 1 and 2 will always be Terminator - the rest of the nonsense is nothing but a heartless cash cow."
It always amazes me that most people don't treat T2 as very much part of the heartless cash cow group. Why not? It was made on the back of Cameron's only relative flop (The Abyss) and was designed to be just about as commercial as possible. It's a retread of the original that turns Arnie from the villain into the good guy, a comedic good guy at that, and it turns a story about facing the unstoppable arrival of death and darkness with stoicism and bravery ("There's a storm coming in") with a cop-out story in which that darkness doesn't have to be faced, but can simply be switched off instead (contrary to the tacit assertions of the original, i.e. that we're inside a 100% deterministic, unstoppable universe).T2 is *every bit* the dumbed-down, lowest common denominator Hollywood popcorn movie that T3 is.While I still really enjoy all of the terminator films on some level, I have to agree with some of what Kaitain is saying. I don't view T2 as a dumbed down film, but thinking about what could've been the sequel to the first film, I sorta wish Cameron would've just started with Judgement Day and shown the future war and Connor's forces fighting and winning against the machines. I like T2, but I am really really interested in seeing a proper future war terminator film, which Salvation wasn't.If T2 hadn't been about the good T-800 being sent back, and instead the actual future war I think it would've stood the test of time narratively a little better. Plus, whose to say that Skynet didn't use T1000's in the future war as well. Cameron could've still gone wild with all the CGI stuff and had a big budget to make an epic sci-fi war film. -
The notion of how narratively "pure" The Terminator was compared to T2, a certain sense of worry passes over me everytime I hear of Cameron doing an Avatar sequel. I really loved Avatar, but I just don't see a sequel adding much to it. It is a great singular film. You could argue the same with The Terminator, The Matrix, and since we're on the subject of Cameron's films, Aliens. If you really think about it, Alien is not required viewing to understand what's going on in Aliens. He sets up the world and characters and builds the tension so well that it could've probably been a standalone film.I'm not just getting these types of feelings from James Cameron's films. I think that overall, and even though I do enjoy Ep III Revenge of the Sith, the prequel trilogy is hurts the overall integrity of the original trilogy. I'm starting to feel the same types of worry about Caprica in relation to BSG as well. And need I mention any of the pointless Planet of the Apes sequels?I guess maybe I'm just tiring of all the sequels and remakes, or I'm just turning into a crotchety old mofo.
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this is why he always goes to matinees on school days (year-round schooling here)
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of creating something new?
Do they go into business with the express purpose of piggybacking on somebody else's original work?
It's not as if there are not numerous scripts floating around Hollyweird. -
Well, that would be a big old ? mark that would hover over you like a rain cloud if you were planning on going into film wouldn't it?I think that anyone that has the desire to write or direct films professionally needs to be cool with having a career that might consist entirely of adaptations, sequels, remakes, and prequels.Sure a luck few get to become Spielberg or Cameron and do original stories, but for just about everybody else, its a pipe dream.
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I agree, no way Cameron would waste his precious time with this yesterday franchise. I'm completely content with the first 2 Terminators.
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Was a few minutes in TERMINATOR and the first five minutes of T2. Everything else is superfluous, as it has now been proven. It showed the truth of the maxim "Always be careful what you wish for". I sure wanted to see the aftermath of Judgement Day, but thanks to McG, I needed to have my eyes scooped out with a spoon to forget it.
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The only reason why its box office is so "big" is because of the higher ticket prices for 3D. When every action film is available in 3D - which will kill off the gimmick - then there will be no reason to check out an Avatar 2 -Electric Bluegaloo. And if anyone thinks the film is this generation's Star Wars, then you are smoking industrial strength crack. Just because of you Na'vitards, I hope George Lucas cranks out the Sequel Trilogy just to shut you fuckers up. Well, you all as well as any Matrix dweebs still out there.
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I forgot to add all you LOTR poostis to the list. Tom Baker would've made a better Gandalf. Smoke that.
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i'm writing that one down
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With a deal this dumb, expect no further films.
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... just watch those future war scenes in the first Terminator film and mourn over what could have been.
(I remember watching the bonus features of the T2 laserdisc looking over some concept art for the future war and itching to see Cameron get that on the big screen... oh well). -
T2 is closer to T3 than it is to T1. Only T1 has the cellestially touched cinema feel that some movies seem to have (predator, empire, etc.)
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like you know shit either you lame ass Dune namedropping loser.
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like you know shit either you lame ass Dune namedropping loser.
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Does the Geek Revision Of Movie History now demand that we turn on T2 as well? TERMINATOR 2!?!?!?! You know as well as I do that this was and is a benchmark movie in the history of sci-fi and action adventure movie-making. Its twice as great as 99.8% of any movies in its genre, before or since. Shit, if T2 isn't safe from being dissected and declared wanting by your Scalpel Of Truth, then nothing's above reproach or condemnation. Not even, I suspect, your precious ALIENS.
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Is the greatest sci-fi action movie ever made. No argument there, as least. :)
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has anyone made reboot movie. I was just thinking since there's scary movie and sequels and clones lampooning horror movies etc why not make reboot movie lampooning the latest hollywood trend of rebooting everything... just an idea
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"Can anyone think of a decent series of films that went above three in number?" STAR WARS? JAMES BOND (even ignoring the silly Moore ones)? The very successful Japanese 'Tora-san' series - 48 movies with the same actors/characters. It can be done.
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I know quite a few people who went to see STAR WARS or TERMINATOR two or more times and who own the DVDs. Don't know anyone who went to see AVATAR twice. Yeah, AVATAR made more money than TERMINATOR, but, as someone pointed out, tickets cost a lot more than they did then, and there are more people out there to buy them. Doesn't make AVATAR a better film.
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i stopped reading there.
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Avatar is not THAT good.
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This was the only good thing going for the Terminator franchise and Fox cut it as it was getting really good and picking up steam.
There were some slow moments in the second season but it was picking up.
Salvation was just stupid and the idea McG had for the next one was cringe worthy. He wanted to bring it all back to our time...again... and that is not what the fans wanted.
The TV show was going into the future and it would have changed the everything. -
That our favorite franchises must continue on forever to the point of siliness? Let them go. The Terminator series ended at 2 in my mind. They prevented judgement day and lived happily ever after.....in the same way that the Matrix ended after the first movie for me. The rest is just fanfic.
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I can save these douchebags a lot of money and trouble by confessing that I have NO interest in seeing another Terminator film. (Does anyone REALLY need to see the same fucking story re-enacted AGAIN ?!?!?)
If we all confess that, the value of the franchise plummets. -
It's obviously not "that good" on day 1. Only the brain dead simple minded lower rung of society who are easily distracted by shiny objects think it's something amazing.
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KinjoAlcoholicNinja - Agreed. The first and second films on their own formed a fine duo setting up then completing a situation. The rest were just "we probably can get more cash from audiences with even substandard plots..."
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The latest movie just proved that the franchise can't surpive being handled by miscreats filmamkers who treat the franchise merely as a fountain of money. Fucking kill it already. Pit it down like the wounded horse it is, and show some mercy! I can't watch this one hallowed franchise beign futher bastardised by another fucking shitty movie like Terminator Salvation. That was enough already!!
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I actually really love T2. I was just arguing from a point of "narrative purity" that it does muck up some of the established mythos from the first film, just not enough to ruin the film for me at all. The good stuff in T2 outweighs the details that don't carry over from the first film.In a perfect world we would've gotten T1 and T2 from Cameron, and then in 1994 or 1995 or so (instead of True Lies) he would've then made the future war terminator film (T3: The Fall of Skynet or something along those lines). It would've formed the end of a nice trilogy, time loop achieved, etc.What actually makes me want more terminator films is that we've had T3 and T4. Now, I think both films still have their merits. No, they didn't come close to T1 and T2, but they certainly weren't shite like Alien Resurrection was, for example. What ticks me off, is that we've had two less than stellar terminator films after T2, and they finally got the future war stuff rolling. John Connor has finally achieved his "leader of the resistance" status by Salvation's end, and then poof, the whole freaking franchise is locked up in legal b.s. now. All this dicking around in T3, Sarah Connor Chronicles, and then in Salvation finally brought us to a point where we were THIS CLOSE to seeing a terminator film with an actual focus on the future war with Skynet, and possibly done as an actual war film. Now, who knows what we'll get, or if there will be another terminator film.
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... eating the shorts of kwisatzhaderach.
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Why do you even feel the need to defend your love for Terminator 2? Nobody should ever feel the need to defend a love for a proper really good movie. If people can't like that really good movie, that's their fucking problem. Sucks to be them. Don't ever appologise for liking a good movie, man. Never!
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Terminator(singing): Come with me, if you want to live!
John Connor(singing): No! There is no fate but what we make!
on and on... -
I'll concede to you James Bond, I can't comment on the Japanese series. But STAR WARS proves my point, if anything. It'd have been much better had Lucas not bothered to make the prequels.
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T-2 did start the slide of the series, really with that lil kid Conor bonding with the loveable replacement dad Terminator, but thankfully, it was still Cameron at least who was looking to find an angle to make go. I've already forgotten much of T3, and I'm never going to see T4, unless I'm bedridden or something. The Sarah Connor Chronicles had potential and was interesting, but I'm curious, does anyone know if they had an arc plotted out for the series, or was it just some vague idea, depending on how many seasons got picked up? I checked out mid-season 2, frustrated with it's mix of good and bad.
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Feb 10, 2010 4:04:19 PM CST
If they CGI MAXIMILLION, I will burn down Hollywood
by smokiegeezer32_psn
Remember this. CGI? WE DONT NEED NO STINKING CGI!!!!!
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I was responding to someone getting a bit uppity about my calling out of T2 on the fact that it tainted the "narrative purity" of the first terminator flick a bit (mainly by creating the paradox of John, Sarah, T800, and Dyson stopping Judgement Day, the war, the machine war, etc). I should've been more clear initially when I said T2 had a few problems with the continuity with the first one.
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The TV show was great. It started out okay, then got better and better. Every time they made some decision that sounded like the dumbest thing they could possibly do, they knocked it out of the park and redeemed those ideas. It was so hard to watch TS after the TV show lifted my expectations so much. I still enjoyed it for the rock 'em sock 'em robot action, but the story was just insipid.
And I can't be the only one that's annoyed by people constantly trying to shoehorn in "plot holes" in the Terminator movies where they don't exist. There are glaring paradoxes in the very nature(s) of the movies themselves, yet people seem to constantly criticize little things as "mistakes" or plot holes that actually make complete sense to anyone who can exercise basic logical thinking in the rare cases where they aren't directly explained in the movies/shows themselves. What is wrong with these people? -
was 10 times the movie that Avatar the fucking cartoon was. Cameron shit out some inept shitastic script, puked up a bunch of CGI, and then all the dogs came around to lap up his new age fucktard offal. Good fucking God you dip shits blathering on about how much money this POS made are fucking retards just like every other dumb ass talking about Avatar being the new Star Wars.
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I caught part of a scene where she's getting a HANDGUN before heading out. Now, unless it packs high-explosive bullets, or she intends to use it on herself to avoid capture, she should know it would be pretty much as useful against a Terminator as against a tank. Which is to say not at all. So why bother? That's the sort of thing which killed it for me.
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True, the 1-3 segments of the STAR WARS series left something to be desired compared to 4-6, but mostly only compared to 4-6. They were still a vast improvement over the average space fantasy films.
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Cameron should have bougth his right back (he has the money for sure) and do what has to be done!
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Copied from this article from Deadline Hollywoodhttp://www.deadline.com/hollywood/exclusive-wishers-take-on-terminator-5-6/Now that Pacificor has pulled the Terminator franchise out of bankruptcy, the question becomes: How to wrap up one of the great sci-fi franchises for hardcore fans who feel neither of the last two installments measured up to the first two that James Cameron directed? Cameron seems unlikely to return to the fold (even though Terminator would fit nicely into the portfolio of 3D films like Fantastic Voyage he’s producing.) But what if I told you his writing partner on the first two films, William Wisher, has scripted a detailed 24-page treatment for Terminator 5, and a 4-page concept outline for Terminator 6? And that I’ve read both?As a Terminator fanboy myself, I think Wisher has done a terrific job with a plot that accepts the storylines from Jonathan Mostow’s Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and McG’s Terminator: Salvation. Most interestingly, he turns the story back to the core characters and time travel storyline of the first two films that Wisher crafted with Cameron. Gale Anne Hurd shared writing credit with Cameron on the original film while Wisher got an “additional dialogue by” credit, but I’m told he was plenty involved. He and Cameron shared screenwriting credit on Terminator 2: Judgment Day. But Wisher walked away from the 3rd film out of loyalty to Cameron and had no involvement with Terminator: Salvation. Now he wants back in. I won't give away Wisher’s plotlines. After all, it’s not clear at this point whether Pacificor — or Sony and Lionsgate, the most likely studios to ultimately make the next installments — will engage him to write the final installments. But I’ve received permission to disclose some high points:Wisher’s 2-picture construct takes place in a post-apocalyptic battleground, and factors in an element of time travel that allows for Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese to interact beyond their single fateful meeting when he traveled back in time to protect her in the original film. Wisher has created a role for Arnold Schwarzenegger that is as surprising as his shift from villain in the first film, to John Connor’s bodyguard in the second. Schwarzenegger wouldn’t be needed until the final film, which wouldn’t shoot until after he ends his term as California Governor. And who wouldn’t want to see Linda Hamilton back in aerobic top fitness form as Sarah Connor?There are several new villains, and plenty of firepower. For instance, a swarm of “Night Crawlers,” 4 1/2-foot tall border sentries that are set like mines to spring up out of the ground and ambush rebel fighters with 10 MM pistols built into their wrists, and fingers and feet that are razor sharp. Also fresh off the Skynet assembly line are new shape-shifting cyborgs that can morph together in Transformers-like mode, and are more lethal than anything we’ve seen in previous Terminator installments.Wisher presents a satisfying conclusion to what by then would be a 6-picture struggle between Skynet’s machines and John and Sarah Connor to preserve a future that allows mankind to prevail over the machines. I’d pay to see these movies. How about you?
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either give us a decent sequel already or just let the series end
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