Cool News
‘I Want To Go Home!!’ Hercules Loves LOST 6.1 & 6.2!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
The “Lost” creators are once more doing something that we’ve not seen on television! Fans, I suspect, are going to love the suspenseful, surprise-packed first hour of the series’ sixth season.
We can only hope the second of this season’s 18 hours, airing immediately after, is as compelling.
SPOILERS!!
Though 6.1 takes place in three different eras, there’s nothing in 6.1 I would call a flashback or a flashforward.
I’m now going to stick in two minor spoilers followed by a giant one. DON’T FUCKING READ THESE SPOILERS!! YOU’RE BETTER THAN THAT!!
1) We learn Boone is in Locke’s row.
2) We learn Hurley is in Saywer’s row.
3) Jack’s seatmate on Oceanic 815 this time around is someone you were NOT expecting. Hint: not Jacob!! Another hint: not Christian!!
Alleged titles for the first 12 hours of season six:
6.1 LA X Part One
6.2 LA X Part Two
6.3 What Kate Does
6.4 The Substitute
6.5 Lighthouse
6.6 Sundown
6.7 Dr. Linus
6.8 Recon
6.9 Ab Aeterno
6.10 The Package
6.11 Happily Ever After
6.12 Everybody Loves Hugo
In other “Lost” news, Matthew Fox tells E! he may be done with TV and Evangeline Lilly says she may be done with acting entirely! Read more about this here.
9 p.m. Tuesday. ABC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
Lost 6.x
Lost 6.x (Blu-ray)
Lost: The Complete Series
Lost: The Complete Series (Blu-ray)
Among The Living NOW!!!
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So ready for this
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A ton of surprises and even some answers!! Can't wait to see the second part. The latest trailer with all official footage is so badass. Looks almost like a finale trailer, which makes me extremely excited. I had worries about where this season would start. Not worried anymore.
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I only counted two. Guess I need to watch a little closer this time around.
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Lost, for the win
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Anyone else think the last shot of the whole series will be Locke and Jack in black and white on the beach?
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She's been saying for years that she stumbled into LOST, but she was good in hurt locker too. It would be a shame if she retired.
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It's not like those two hacks invented flash-forwards or anything... Besides, I've seen far bolder storytelling in a bunch of Japanese animated series (just try the "When They Cry" series for size... now, that's complex)...
I really wish people would stop celebrating this goddamn series already... It's terribly written ("let's throw in invisible monsters, mysterious whispers, strange metallic structures, ghosts, etc to troll a bunch of viewers! who cares if there's no way anybody could come up with a coherent explanation for all that in the end? as long as the suckers bought the DVDs already, it's all good!") and sets such an unfortunate precedent for the future of science fiction on television it depresses me to no end... -
That episode is going to be amazing...
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It took a LOT of willpower to not look at the spoilers. The video alone has got me way too anxious till tonights show! Roland may be on to something. John = new MIB, Jack = new Jacob? I just know its gonna be an sick several weeks. Anybody doing anything special like group viewings or parties for LOST this season?
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They fucking moved it again??? God damn, seriously, if it wasn't for you Herc, I would've missed it. Thought it was coming on Wednesday night.
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"Lost" is my 70-year-old mom's 2nd favorite show. Her most favorite is "24"!
I won't go into the boring details, but I'm 41 and my (now 70 years old) mom moved in with me around four years ago. I made the mistake of turning her on to a few shows that I like. I'm not projecting when I say that her favorite tv show is "24", and that her second favorite is "Lost" (I'm now a "24" basher and recovering "Lost" basher). Heck, she even liked "Heroes" and is angry that we don't watch it anymore. She recognized David Anders on this season's "24" before I did!
It's surprising, but her 70-year-old noggin' is able to keep up with what's happening on "Lost". I've had to explain some of the time travel theories and crap like that to her, but she manages pretty well on her own.
The broad range of appeal for this show is pretty amazing. -
Wow.
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If you're gonna bitch about it and say how horrible the show is... just do not watch the show, do not read the posts, do not post in here and do not waste your time or ours bitching about it. This is a thread for people who are really excited about the final season of a show that they happen to really enjoy! I'm almost happier about this night of TV than the fact that I just got a new job! Go piss on someone else's parade Oliver!!! LOST PARTY AT MY PLACE TONGIHT!!!
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I'm guessing she's a soap fan? Because that's basically what 24 is.
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Ben gets all the hype but I think to many fans, me included, Richard is the most mysterious character on the show. Can't wait for the premiere. Thank God Comcast On Demand is offering it in case I miss it.
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If you just can't stand criticism regarding your beloved show, just ignore it. See? I can do that, too. Whee.
I didn't see anything about this topic being your very own parade, or reserved for people who (apparently?) can't see the series' many flaws. The show _is_ deeply flawed, and I'll criticize it if I feel like it. Sorry, man. -
He has a right to post criticism just like we have the right to post excitement. But...if he (apparently) can't see the series' many qualities, then that's his loss. Not to mention he provides an animated series as proof that Lost isn't original in content. So I'll now utilize my right to criticism; Oliver Hague, you wouldn't know good television if it fucked you in the ass.
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We aren't talking about something new here, we are talking about season 6 of a tv show, final season.
Criticism, comments, views from people who have been on the ride is fair, people who have an opinion on something that doesn't really interest them, is kind of sad and a waste of their time.
From now on probably best to just ignore the likes of you and read and discuss comments with people who actually have been on this ride.
There will be trolls for the next 5 months, just hopefully not too many. -
Is that if you're just coming in this TB to be a shit disturber, we could probably all do without... things tend to get bad enough in lost tb already without people coming in just to kick the hornet's nest and watch, find a new fuckin' hobby..
... or stick around and keep it up which, I'm sure, is what you're going to do. -
She's watched her fair share of soaps over the years, but the only one that she watched at all since moving here was "As the World Turns" (and it ended). Naw, she has the hots for Kiefer Sutherland. I don't allow myself to ponder that.
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My favourite show of all time.
Hope its a great end to this amazing ride. -
Well you see I WILL ignore anything that you post further. You are the one who says the show is :deeply flawed" and would rather watch anime instead. So instead of trolling in here trying to convince people how bad a show is that they enjoy but you do not like, just go watch your anime and tell all your internet friends how amazing it is instead of trying to make yourself so much cooler by slagging on this show. I see for a show you don't like you are hanging around this talk back still. Enjoy your criticism and spanking it to obscure Japanese cartoons.
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For those like myself trying to avoid spoilers, won't to talk Lost and avoid spoilers as much as possible. But am sure there will be some retard that posts something without labelling it as spoillers.
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Can we focus on the show and not Oliver anymore please dear people? We are all here (most of us) because we share a common interest.
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"Criticism, comments, views from people who have been on the ride is fair" Who said I haven't "been on the ride"? I've seen the whole series. Doesn't that make my criticism and comments fair? "people who have an opinion on something that doesn't really interest them" It does interest me because (like I said earlier) I'm concerned with the future of science fiction of television. If this kind of terrible storytelling ("I make shit as I go _and_ I don't care if it doesn't make sense in the end") proves successful, it will be imitated. And I find that alarming.
"There will be trolls for the next 5 months, just hopefully not too many." So I'm a troll simply because I happen to think the series is deeply flawed? That's nice. -
I feel bad for West Coasters who have to wait an extra 3 hours after we are all going to be posting about the show here. Its hard enough to avoid the highlight spoilers but knowing that other people have actually SEEN the new episode would drive me crazy. Thank God in EST. I'm just hoping my Juliet is ok and appears in the first episode somehow. V looks like its gonna bomb if it even makes it back.
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You gonna use a different quote for the coaxial article in a few hours? If I remember correctly, you used to change things up a bit.
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They're coming right now!
I love how Karl's line from Season 3 can easily be used to describe LOST moving from Wednesday to Tuesday. -
What's funny about his post is that you can tell he doesn't watch it. Every mystery that he mentioned came up in Season 1. So he probably either hasn't watched it since, or never did and just heard/read about those things. Invisible monster? It hasn't been invisible for a while, now. Even though we still don't know what it is. But the producers promised it will be answered in the last episode. The "strange metal structures"? Come on. That was so season 1 (I'm assuming you're talking about the hatch). That was explained in Season 2. Maybe if Olivier actually watched the show, he would enjoy it, as each layer is removed revealing answers and more mystery. When long-time questions are finally answered in the show, it makes sense why they waited so long because the answer was so complex (usually meaning you had to know about a lot of other stuff first). So, we can see that Olivier has no argument and is just a troll who can't harm anyone. Move along and ignore the troll under the bridge and cross over into great talk about an excellent show starting its final season.
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and Jimmys a lost fanatic, maybe he'll weasel some info out of her ><
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Feb 02, 2010 2:10:55 AM CST
Herc, good job admitting to ABC that you watched a bootleg
by billboefett
and basically telling them you're no longer interested in complying with their wishes from TV critics. Oh no wait... you're not actually a TV critic, so, nevermind.
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yeah it really sucks, I've tried convincing people to be a little more secretive till at least an hour or so after, but theres no way thats going to work... I'd have a hard time not posting as well.
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thats a repeat from early January. Kimmel always repeats Mondays. But Tues night Darlton will be on, and I'm sure Kimmel was grill them. Kimmels' entire employee base watches LOST each week with an early preview copy
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I already miss Lost's best pair!
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"What's funny about his post is that you can tell he doesn't watch it. Every mystery that he mentioned came up in Season 1." I mentioned the stuff from season 1 because my point was the the show was flawed from day one. That's all. Want sometihng a bit more recent? All right, then. I guess I could mention the mind-boggingly stupid reveal about Locke in the season 5 finale... So Bram et al had the corpse of the real Locke in that box all along, huh? So what was it they were doing during the entire season, exactly? "Quick! We've got to warn Jacob about the fake Locke before it's too late!" And obviously, that meant: 1) carrying the corpse of the fake Locke (because Jacob wouldn't believe that ridiculous story without some solid evidence, I guess? I think they would have been quite a bit faster without that stupid box, but hey), 2) packing said corpse while utterly ignoring the presence of the fake Locke (shouldn't you, I dunno... try and stop him or something? just an idea?), 3) go to the cabin because _obviously_ that's where Jacob must be... even if you keep asking what's under the statue and waiting for your interlocutor to reply that "Jacob is, duh!" All in all, 'sounds like a solid plan to me! I'm utterly shocked it didn't work out in the end! That kind of shit makes you wonder if the writers really had the whole "revived Locke = Jacob's enemy" thing planned out to begin with... A point of detail, really!
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why everyone who bashes lost accuses them of "making it up as they go" as if EVRY show in the HISTORY of television wasn't written that way. They only point it out as a flaw because the producers claim to have a plan. It's like flipping out because I say I dont like fried chicken, and then you catch me eating some...EVERYBODY likes fried chicken...NO ONE CARES!
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Relax. Lets actually try having some conversations instead of the constant Lost bashfests that have been occurring recently. Most of use here watch the show, we don't have to agree about everything to discuss it. When somebody doesn't agree that REALLY doesn't make them an ignorant troll. It just means they have a different opinion than you do. Kinda like the real world, which I'm assuming most of you venture into on a near daily basis.... right? And Billboe, why do you assume he saw a bootleg? I'm pretty sure he gets screeners, and since the first ep was already shown at the premier party I can't see why they wouldn't be sending them out.
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and agree re juliet, I am mostly a Sun fan, but when it comes to assets, Juliet is definetely the winner.
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"why everyone who bashes lost accuses them of "making it up as they go" as if EVRY show in the HISTORY of television wasn't written that way." I'm entirely fine with improvisation as long as the writers do their fucking job and improvise _in such a way that the plot makes sense in the end_. Unfortunately, that's just not the case with Lost. Plot holes abound, entire threads are abandoned (you're just supposed to forget about them)...
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Every show wasn't written that way. Period. End of story. Are some of them? Sure. A lot of them? Maybe. But a lot of hour long dramas are not "made up as they go along". They have clear directions for at least the full season they're filming and sometimes longer. The Lost writers and creators have been very open about the fact that that is not the case with this show. The reason why that matters, to me, is that a good writing follows a clear formula that's been used for hundreds of years. You have a beginning, middle and end. You write to keep the reader (viewer) interested until you reach your climax, resolution or cliffhanger. The problem (again, that SOME people have) with Lost is that we fear the many different "cooks in the kitchen" over the first five seasons, and the way they've been making up the recipes as they go along is that there won't be a satisfactory resolution to all of the dilemmas (and mysteries) they've created. Do they all need to be answered/explained? No, not for me. Do I think they'll be any lack of climax? No, I don't. I fully expect that they'll find SOME way to answer/explain a lot of whats happened and that at some point this season my tv viewing world will be rocked. But I also have much apprehension regarding alternate timelines and their use in writing around some of the plots/events various writers created in previous seasons. I'm as excited as anybody for the final season (whether or not anybody in here believes that is no longer of any concern to me), but I don't have the faith in a satisfying resolution that some of you are convinced is coming our way. I've been watching tv for too long to follow that blindly. There WILL BE questions left unanswered or washed over. Some of them will probably piss people off. I hope not. I really hope not. But a recent example would be Battle Star Galactica, and old one The X-Files. These things just have a way of not making everybody happy when all is said and done.
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When fake Locke turns into the SMOKE MONSTER!
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I agree that abandoning a story with loose plot points is irritating at best and insulting to the viewr's intelligence at worst. Like whe heros just left Peter's Irish girlfriend in an alternate future and never mentioned her again...or in transformers2 when they have the constructicons form devistator and run around individually at the same time (and people tried to explain to me that these were clones or some shit...but the DIRECTOR is supposed to explain that to me.)
I just dont think Lost has crossed into that territory. I think that the creators have had a basic outline for the series main points the whole time, and yes, they started writing some checks we will never get to cash (Libby, anyone?) but I do think that all of the basic points will be covered...the ones deeply rooted in the mythology of the show...what exactly is the smoke monster, who is jacob, the history of the island, what's with the numbers (although I'll admit I'm thinking they may blow this one off) who are the skeletons, etc.
Early one, producers assumed they'd have an unknown amount or shows, and 24 hours per season to tell thier story...as such they had to ad fluff (Nikki &Palo etc.) and introduce some side stories that didnt contribute to the main arc of the series, which will unavoidably result in loose ends. I can live with that because the show hasnt had that boring kind of crap for the last two seasons, everything has advanced the story... no entire six episode stupid arcs of Sawyer and Kate in bear cages.
I'm just not sitting here worried about why the Ajira people went to the cabin to look for jacob and not right to the statue... The real answer is to let the audience know that whatever was in the cabin wasn't jacob...I'm fine with that and with the fact that the show runners didn't think i'd care enough to demand an answer.
I guess my point is, I know its a show, I know you don't write six seasons worth of television before you even start the first season, and I know that you have to adjust plans due to outside curcumstances.
I just think people who think that they've NEVER had a plan to answer each question before they introduce it are way to skeptical.
They knew what the smoke monster was when they put it in there. They knew there was a 'Jacob' or had a basic idea about him. they know who the skeletons are.
but seriously...name ONE show that has ever planned out six seasons of television down to the most minute detail.
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just re-watched the entire show and there are very few actual plot holes, the continuity is actually quite astounding considering the complexity of some of the story lines.
The damn thing hasn't even finished yet but in your amazingly arrogantly warped brain you seem to think you know the ending. You are a typical pessimistic prick who think he knows everything. If you don;t like the fucking programme, go and fucking watch something else, why do you need to fill your pathetic life with posting negative comments on a talkback. get a hobby, watch some porn or something. Do something you actually like rather than moaning about something you clearly don't like. Dickhead -
how are they gonna show Walt, the actor's like 16 or 17 now!
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god you're thick.
1) they found the corpse of Locke after the fake Locke had left for the island. Yes they had to carry the fake Locke as they know RIchard Alpert is normally the only person allowed to see Jacob so they needed proof they were on Jacobs side.
2) They went to the cabin as that is where Jacob had been staying. The salted barrier around the cabin was a protection barrier (obviously against the man in Black) that had been broken and Jacob had not been at the cabin for some time. So they went to the statue. By the way, what lies in the shadow of the statue is not going to be Jacob.
Its obvious they had planned for Locke to not be Locke. They must have said about 10 times in the whole series that dead in dead, not even the island can fix that. The actor even played Locke differently, he suddenly knew everything about the island, he was slightly creepier.
I feel sorry for people who watch a TV show without actually watching it. God if you watch Twin Peaks it must have given you a splitting headache. -
and thanks for actually thinking it through
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"just re-watched the entire show and there are very few actual plot holes" You just missed them, I guess. Jack's plan at the end of season 2? Follow Michael right into the trap? Brilliant! The purple sky? Never mentioned again, except in that hilarious "explanation" as to why Ben didn't simply leave the island to get his operation. Walt who's relevant, then not relevant anymore, then relevant again, then "bye Walt and thanks for all the fish"? Desmond watching his own flashback along with the viewers and suddenly realizing that yes, the button _does_ do something? "We can't change history! No, wait! Desmond can because.... well, because he can! No, wait! We _all_ can "because we're variables", and it took me three years to realize that!" Etc etc... "they found the corpse of Locke after the fake Locke had left for the island." Wrong. Episode "Dead is Dead" (except for that drowned girl in Eko's flashback, but I guess I should kindly forget about that): Ben and Bram talk about the box while faux Locke is right there, on the beach. "Yes they had to carry the fake Locke as they know RIchard Alpert is normally the only person allowed to see Jacob so they needed proof they were on Jacobs side." And how was that corpse proof that they were on Jacob's side, exactly? It doesn't prove anything. 'Could be a ruse of Jacob's enemy. Since Richard would just have to trust them on their word anyway, the corpse wasn't needed. "They went to the cabin as that is where Jacob had been staying." What was up with that question they kept asking, then? "The salted barrier" It's ashes. I thought I was the one not paying attention. "So they went to the statue." Yeah, because there was a oh-so-literal hint pointing to the statue right there, nailed on the wall. Who put it there? Who cares! That's fucking video game logic. "Its obvious they had planned for Locke to not be Locke. They must have said about 10 times in the whole series that dead in dead, not even the island can fix that." Yeah, just like in that Eko flashback with the drowned girl that comes back to life during her autopsy, but I guess I should kindly forget about that one. "The actor even played Locke differently, he suddenly knew everything about the island, he was slightly creepier." Yeah, and he confronted Ben about his own murder because, obviously, Jacob's enemy would care about that.
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i am reading no spoilers. i just wanted to say YAY! FINALLY! I THOUGHT THIS DAY WOULD NEVER COME!
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I came close to reading those spoilers. I even highlighted half of the first bullet point before i miraculously dragged my fingers away. I dont know how i stopped myself, and ill be damned if i know how to stop myself again.
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Whoops, 'forgot that one: "By the way, what lies in the shadow of the statue is not going to be Jacob." I was referring to their "password" thingy... Richard had the correct answer, and it was that Jacob was in the shadow of the statue (well, except he actually answered in Latin, because he truly is a "Dick"). Oh, and I just remembered another great "little detail" that shows how much care the writers put into that years-long mess of a show: Widmore and all his troubles finding the island when he has the address of the (as of yet unexplained, but who's keeping count?) Dharma-station-that's-fucking-designed-to-do-just-that right there on his desk. Well, OK, then! Oh, and the great payoff to Faraday's asking Desmond for help in the past ('gotta love how Desmond suddenly remembers about that in the present!): in the end, Ben got a black eye. Now, that's what I call a dramatic shift in history. And remind me why Faraday briefly posed as a no-name Dharma worker, again? Oh, right! Because that one short scene was written before the writers had any clue as to how it would fit in in the end. Way to plan ahead, guys! You'd think _professional writers_ would know that seriously planning ahead is pretty much a requisite when dealing with flash-forwards and time travel plots, but hey... Oh, and the whole "Jacob's list" debacle, where the Others had the guys they wanted on a plate but let them go because it was much simpler to try and turn Michael to get to them _again_ (because they really needed an excuse to get rid of Michael, Walt and one of their boats?). "And Michael? Don't forget to bring us those people _specifically_, huh?! God knows we need Hugo _specifically_ to... er... go back to the beach and tell the other survivors that the Others don't want them on their lands... again. Also, we're pretty sure only _Sawyer_ and _Kate_ could move those rocks we need moving." God, I can't stop, now... What a mess of a show... Again, I wouldn't be bothered if it weren't so successful (and if the initial pitch didn't have so much potential... 'talk about a fucking waste)...
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Just drawn back to Lost
Even with all the risks involved of reading spoilers.
Definetely have an addiction problem.
Later this year will see whether rewatching the series over and over on blu-ray will keep the addiction at bay. -
If you think back at all the television shows in history and if the internet had been around for all that time, would there be any other tv show, that would have created so much analysis, theories, comments etc, over a reasonably long period of time (6 seasons).
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I think you have a right to say what you want. I will allow that maybe youve spent a good deal of time considering your opinions before voicing them, instead of, you know, making them up as you go along.
You dont like lost. It doesnt catch your fancy. I gotcha. Just got a few questions: Why did you bother to watch every episode of a show you disliked and continued to dislike throughout its entire five season run? That just seems like a ridiculous amount of time that you could have been spending doing things you do like. So whatever compelled you?
I mean ive disliked popular shows before, but i never felt the need to watch them all the way through. That'd be hell, constantly exposing myself to entertainment material that only evokes feelings of anger, disgust, anguish and flop sweat.
I like lost. I think its a very entertaining show. When i sit down and watch it, i feel engaged in its goings ons, its characters, its silliness, its seriousness and its Hawaiian location shooting. I guess i have a very concrete reason for posting here today. Whats your reason? -
"Why did you bother to watch every episode of a show you disliked and continued to dislike throughout its entire five season run?" At first (the first seasons and part of season 2, I'd say?), I was hoping the writers would surprise me. "Yeah, it looks like we've really painted ourselves in a corner fairly early on, but check this! Here's a clever explanation you hadn't thought of!" After that, it was more a matter of (somewhat morbid, I guess) curiosity. I had already invested a bit of my time in the series, and I was still interested in seeing how it would go, even if I was now convinced it wouldn't end well. I don't think of that as "hell", really... It's actually kinda interesting to see how they're dealing with their plot ("badly", yeah, but I'm talking about the specifics: which threads they're abandoning, which ones they're trying to keep, etc). And I'm interested in (and, again, more than a bit alarmed by) the reception of the show as well. I really hope there will be some (hopefully intelligent) backlash in the end: that kind of sloppy writing shouldn't stand (and the way SF/fantasy elements are merely being (mis)used 1) to troll viewers in the beginning, and then 2) as an easy way out whenever convenient makes me sick in my stomach). But maybe that's just me being overly optimistic (for once!)...
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you say the answer to the "What lies in the shadow of the statue" question/password was "Jacob". But it was actually something along the lines of "He who will save/protect us". Which doesn't mean Jacob. In fact, at the end of last season, wasnt Locke's body laying in the shadow of the staute?
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firstly, Sawyer and Kate were taken because they were on a list, a list that will be shown in the final season. secondly they were taken to use as a bargaining chip by Ben to make Jack do the surgery. Is that really that hard to believe. Jack loves Kate so will do what she says, Kate loves Sawyer so beating the shit out of him will make Kate ask Jack to do the surgery. Its fucking simple to understand if you just think about it.
I get the idea from all your writer bashing that you are indeed a failed writer yourself who truly believes is more talented than these guys. Get over yourself.
You're getting hung up on things about people drowning and then coming back to life (hypertheria has been known to mislead doctors in real life, that was explained in that flipping episode idiot, the girl seemingly had a vision to give a message to Eko, are you seriously getting hung up on that sort of thing but accepting talking ghosts and smoke things?!). You just want everything neatly tidied up for you don't you. Go and watch CSI or the Mentalist where they spoon feed you answers every episode, I'll keep to a show that allows you to interpret things yourself and come up with theories and ideas. A show that cultivates discussions rather than ends them on a weekly basis. -
but i've still got to agree with Olivier here. Just finished rewatching it all in prep for tonight and it is very obvious - if you're looking - that from a writing perspective, they were just throwing all their balls up in the air and hoping they'd catch a few on the way back down. Look at some of Olivier's examples re: Hurley and Faraday.
Nothing wrong with this, though. There's no rule that says a writer has to complete a six-season arc when there's no telling if the show would even get picked up, but i'd be equally hesitant to laud the writers for the skilful way they've handled everything; with the amount of open enders they threw out there, they could have gone absolutely anywhere, the looseness of the plot doesn't really suggest that they knew where they were going, even up until the fifth season.
That said, I watched the premiere yesterday, and good stuff! Not a wasted minute. Woohoo! -
You are just bragging about watching the first hour of lost.
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seldom is a monotone reading of three simple words so anticipated.
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I've been a fan of tele-fantasy for a while now and I know what's bloody good and what's bad. Lost in Space- bad. Twin Peaks- good. The Prisoner- good. Space 1999- bad. The Twilight Zone- good. Millennium- good. Timecop- bad. Seaquest- bad. Lost will stand the test of time (provided they don't fuck up this final season), be talked about and studied far beyond the lifespan of any of us.
It stands out as one of the finest dramas ever, has dared to be different and never sold out. -
the leaked first hour was readily available. I suspect the security measures for the finale will be ultra tight.
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I've avoided the 4 minute snippet of the premiere so that I can gorge myself on some fresh unspoiled Lost tonight. Can't wait!
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(to be aired) on Groundhog Day. Am I the only one who sees the beauty in that?
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I strongly feel that this is the greatest television show to grace the airwaves. The characters, the production, the music all top notch. I for one am PUMPED for this shit tonight!!
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for the last few months the anticipations has been killing me. But now i'm just hoping to calm down, relax, forget about all the speculations and theories and just watch and enjoy the new episodes. exciting!
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I dunno, I find it really hard to believe that Richard (and Bram and co) didn't think of that answer as referring to Jacob. Basically, that would means that answer was a complete riddle to them as well, and... Nah, sorry, I don't buy it. 'Guess I might be wrong on that one, but it just sounds way too counter-intuitive / far-fetched to me...
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ive been waiting 9 months for this :-)
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Who whould have thought that (SPOILER)
Darthvader was actually luke skywalkers father!
(end SPOILER) -
Considering you've insulted me quite a few times already (after all, I don't like Lost, so I must be "fair game"), I think you can drop the "Mr.", really... "Sawyer and Kate were taken because they were on a list" And why were they on the list? Why them specifically? Why Hugo? Will that ever be answered? It doesn't look like we're ever going back to that one particular question, really... "a list that will be shown in the final season." Source, please? "they were taken to use as a bargaining chip by Ben to make Jack do the surgery." No, Jack was promised a ticket back to the outside world for the surgery. Too bad _I_ remember the show, huh. "You're getting hung up on things about people drowning and then coming back to life (hypertheria has been known to mislead doctors in real life, that was explained in that flipping episode idiot" Yeah, sure, that flashback was about hyperthermia. That was pretty obvious because they... er... no, wait, they didn't talk about that. At all. The undertaker was obviously still completely freaked out about what had happened. Again, your memories of the show seem somewhat... fuzzy. "You just want everything neatly tidied up for you don't you." I just want something that can possibly make sense. Something that's well-written. That thing with the drowned girl was (as IWasInJuniorHighDickhead put it quite well) one of the balls the writers threw up in the air and that were never got caught on the way down (and the show then claiming that "dead is dead" just makes things worse). "I'll keep to a show that allows you to interpret things yourself and come up with theories and ideas. A show that cultivates discussions rather than ends them on a weekly basis." Way to miss the point... My problem is with those plot threads that are abandoned and/or simply _can't_ be resolved anymore because the writers painted themselves in a corner / weren't paying attention to their own show. That's sloppy writing. And for your information, no, I'm not a failed writer or anything like that. I'm just a viewer who happens to be paying attention and I would very much like for the writers to do a decent job instead of assuming I won't notice their fuck-ups because I'll be distracted by Giacchino's music. That's downright insulting at times.
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1 /P
2 /P
3 /P -
"Your criticisms of Lost are just wonderful, so carefully thought out, not at all impulsive and obsessive..." As evidenced by your so convincing and extensive counter-arguments! The WMDs in Iraq, wow, that's a very compelling point, indeed. Thanks for showing me the light. And I also appreciate how you called me out on my impulsiveness by calling me names like fuckhead and such. Powerful stuff, really. "Would you like to let us all know what you do find value in" You're really paying attention, too. I find value in *gasp* good writing. There was better continuity in Arrested Development, and that was a fucking comedy. For shame.
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We aren't going to convince him that its a great show.
In terms of an having an unhealthy obsession with talking about something he doesn't like he has a long long (x 1000) way to go to reach the likes of AsimovLives and Star Trek -
"previously on Lost"
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Nothing else matters.....sorry Motoko
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Look no show is perfect the writers arnt in any way Jesus, that being said... Are there a few things they could have not introduced into the show that made little or no sense to the story arc ummm yeah,but i think once they were able to force ABC to realize they need a end date for the show and got it i think they were able to get on track with the arc of the show. Look not everything is going to be answered but i enjoy the show to no end my hope is we get the basic food groups of the show answered you cant ask for perfection when there is none on earth..... Unless your Michael Jordon but i digress sorry. Anyway have fun tonight with whoever u watch it with BTW folks i gotta Oliver who watches the show with it makes for great fun after the show ends and if there were no Oliver's in the world it be a pretty boring place. Well have a glass of wine or pop open beer get your pop corn ready get ready for another and final season of Lost where Lovers And Haters get there drug lol for a few more months......
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"anything that doesn't fit into your negative scenario is just dismissed with a flick of your "too far-fetched" wrist..."
Again, feel free to demonstrate how the examples I listed are just me being biased and nothing else. Anytime, now, huh. "please deign to let us know what you think is superior SF, that could make TV better if there was more of it's kind?" Shit, I dunno, the Twilight Zone, the Prisoner, the Ghost in the Shell TV series, stuff like that... There isn't a lot of good SF/fantasy on television (or in theaters, really), but it does exists. Thing is, the juggernaut that is Lost casts a shadow over it all, right now. When they say it's the TV event of the year, they're not kidding, unfortunately. For example, one could argue we wouldn't have been "graced" with trash like Heroes if it hadn't been for Lost. Thanks, guys, really... -
Looks like I need to spend some time getting the timeline back into my skull. I replaced it with important data on Fallout 3 quest locations.
Have we all really been thinking about this show for 6 years? Plot holes or not (and what show doesn't have them?) it's been a good time. However, I don't think I can deal with a crappy finale.
Might have to burn something then. -
..for making the invisio spoilers kinda non spoilers, I was weak :( but happy nothing was really spoiled.
Babylon 5 was thought through for 5 seasons, although season 5 was weak. usually troll flame wars are entertaining but people baiting Olivier are weak and Olivier you're arguements sound like a whiny child, or like me at the end of season 3, which I thought was terrible. Better constructed arguements and insults are required. -
Many people would do well to remember that. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but regardless of whether Lost completely shits the bed in this final season (which is highly unlikely), the past 5-6 years have provided me with a treemendous amount of fun and enjoyment. For that I'm thankful.
We're not going to get answers to all our questions, nor should we, but as long as the show stays true to the characters and doesn't insult our intelligence, I'll be satisfied with whatever conclusion they give us. Enjoy this last season for whatever it is folks because it's the last of its kind. The writing is on the wall and serialized network drama is dead. All we have from here on out are bad reality shows, formulaic sitcoms, and one and done cop and medical dramas. -
Here's a quarter for each of you. No wait I forgot they raised the price to 35 cents. Here's 35 cents each. Go call someone who gives a fuck.
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"Look no show is perfect the writers arnt in any way Jesus" Sure, but compared with something like The Wire, for example, there's quite the gap... "i think once they were able to force ABC to realize they need a end date for the show and got it i think they were able to get on track with the arc of the show." Yeah, the show did get better, indeed. There was also better writing overall in the season with the flash-forwards, as it looked like the writers actually felt like they _had_ to plan ahead, this time around. But in the grand scheme of things, it was still too late (again, way too many "mysterious leads" in the first season... maybe they honestly believed they would "think of something down the line" to explain them all, but they should have known better), and we're still getting "idiot plots" on a regular basis...
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its been a great ride/journey.
also well said on the future of network tv, it looks almost dead.
Recent attempts at trying to be the new Lost, i.e. Flash Forward have not been good -
Look i think "The Wire" was a great show but why do people keep comparing it with Lost i get it the writing was excellent on the wire no doubt but its a a totally different bag of groceries. The Wire is a cop/crime drama, Lost is a Sci Fi/ Fantasy i gotta say I think its alot easier to write a show like "The Wire" as opposed to a show like "Lost" maybe im wrong and i dont mind being corrected..
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I still have a little hope. they ended their fall season strong and the previews for the upcoming second half looked amazing. but they definitely have character work to do. They need to kill Joseph Fiennes' character off badly. He's hateable and Fiennes' performance is god awful.
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Feb 02, 2010 9:57:23 AM CST
Hobo...especially when the destination is the beginning.
by run_runner_run
It has to be about the journey. We all know that it's coming back to the beginning. Fact is that there isn't much in the way of quality TV. Everything great gets cancelled. I never want to start watching a new show until there are at least two seasons in the can. Why invest in something that will just get pulled? Instead, crap TV rules and continues to rule more. Just ask Snookie. God, it's Idiocracy. We are so there.
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I was going to be weak and you saved me from myself :) Hahaha, even the woman said "If you read any spoilers, do _not_ tell me about them".
Can't wait! -
"It's about the journey, not the destination." Considering the show attracted much attention because of its mysteries, I'd think the destination should matter quite a bit as well... I know the infernal tandem is trying to sell that "journey, not the destination" angle right now, but I can't help but think "damage control" when I see those interviews. The "crazy SF stuff" is secondary and doesn't need to be explained, really? It will be "mission accomplished!" as long as we get to see what happens to the characters, _really_? Shit, that's not setting the bar very high. In fact, I wonder how you could _fail_ to achieve that...
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Dude, I agree with you...but wtf does the Bush administration or him having a conservative mindset do with this??? Im no fan of the Bush either, but you just sound silly and pretentious.
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You sound like a pretentious moron too. Just wanted to be fair.
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Oliver you sound like a complete moron, McGooCain I just hit a brick wall when I was reading your responses to him because of the Bush/conservative stuff. Rest of it was all good.
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The extreme haters of "Lost" the real all timers who watch the show like the lovers of the show only to dissect it layer by layer there Super big time X-files fans and Chris Carter fucked you in the ass and i will admit he fucked me good and hard too and was so let down how the show slowly committed suicide in those last 3 seasons and that Finale sucked so bad did it ever.... That they no longer can enjoy science fiction TV they have taken the mantra of the show with them always "Trust No One" meaning for them that they shall NEVER trust a Syfy show again. They will bash and annihilate anything remotely that may suck them in like Scully and Mulder managed to. So Fuck You Chris Carter thanks for ruining so many lives and creating so many haters may u experience an anal probe every day in the after life!!!!! Ok i gotta take a breath, anyway thats my sorry ass theory im sure it sucks HATE on me lol
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I get your viewpoint, but many of the central questions of Lost are based on age old questions of man itself. Is man inherently good or evil? Are we beholden to destiny or do we have free will? Any attempt to answer these questions only results in more questions. Lost gets to the heart of our very existence. To attempt to answer those questions with a tv show would be arrogant, pedantic, stupid, and futile. It's cool if you want to look for answers to the universe in a tv show but you would be much happier if you just sat back and enjoyed the ride. It would also be nice if you stopped trying to convince everyone here they shouldn't.
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Is he shooting up in the washroom at the back of the plane . . . with Bernard?!
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Im very excited for tonight. The great thing about Lost is it always goes where you dont expect it to go. I figured after last season that those in 1977 would be brought back to the current date, and everything would happen real time from here on out. Looks like that is not the case, so once again I have no choice but to ride the wave and just hope the writers know what they are doing. I agree with someone who said even if this doesnt end well its been a fun ride. I sure hope it does.
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"i get it the writing was excellent on the wire no doubt but its a a totally different bag of groceries." Sure, but I'm thinking of those instances where supernatural elements weren't a factor, like Jack's baffling "plan" in the season 2 finale, for example. How could Jack and Sayid think that plan was a good idea? What the hell were they hoping to accomplish? That's a pretty massive example of "idiot plot", and not something you'd find in the Wire... "I think its alot easier to write a show like "The Wire" as opposed to a show like "Lost" maybe im wrong and i dont mind being corrected.." A show that deals _properly_ with supernatural elements needs to define its own set of rules and clearly communicate it to the viewers. That's extra work, indeed. But in Lost, the "rules" are kept vague ("I'm going after your daughter because I can't kill you... because I just can't!", "Desmond can alter the course of history... because he's an exception... because he just is!", etc), so vague that one could wonder if there is a rulebook somewhere or if the so called "rules" aren't merely flimsy excuses that are conjured whenever the writers are stumped. Now, _that_'s easy, in the bad meaning of the term. And not something you could do in a realistic setting, in a show without supernatural elements.
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You're one of those idiots who likes the idea of midichlorians aren't you?
What was the last book you read? Did you drop it around the middle because you didn't get all the answers to your questions just right?
Maybe they do stupid things, have stupid plans because people are kind of stupid, you know, prone to kneejerk reactions and half cocked schemes. Maybe the whole show is about them learning to think a little more, have a little more patience...
Which I guess you could learn from?
jackass. -
This shit is gonna be epic. I've waiting on pins and needles for the premiere tonight. BOOOOOOO FUCKIN YAAAAAAA!LFTMFW!!!
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I agree that Lost has on many occasions used cheats with their storytelling to either confuse the audience or perhaps just cover up a few times where maybe they didnt know where to go. Ive always felt with a show as dense as this there has been a bit of forgiveness on the side of the fans towards the writers because when you are dealing with such a complex mythology like they are trying to create its not a good idea to dig your heels in the ground with story ideas. With a 6 year show so much can happen. Actors might die or leave, new story ideas might evolve naturally, etc etc etc and even though they are trying to create a cohesive show there are bound to be missteps. This isnt like a 2 hour movie, its a series, and considering what they are trying to pull off I think most fans are just impressed that theyve managed to keep it together while telling an amazing story with more twists than arguably any series to date. Youve got to realize the nature of what the show is and be able to give the writers a bit of leeway.
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"You're one of those idiots who likes the idea of midichlorians aren't you?" If you're really interested in my opinion on the subject (?), I didn't really mind the idea that there was a (pseudo-)scientific and somewhat down-to-earth explanation behind the connection between living beings and the Force (after all, we had been told that "the Force was strong in the Skywalker family" and that Leia was "another hope" because of that, so it's not _that_ silly an idea, all things considered... and hell, it's just an explanation for the connection, not for the Force itself), but considering the little critters aren't really mentioned again after that I can't help but think there would have been other, less jarring ways for Qui-Gon to realize that the force was extremely strong in Anakin. "jackass." Damn, I was answering in good faith and it turns out you were actually just "one of those guys". How awkward. OK, disregard the above and let's insult each other instead!
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I’ve only seen the preview trailer for season 6; you know the one with Sawyer falling/abseiling down the cliff and that weird Japanese guy with the big hourglass next to what looks like John Lennon (I guess dead people really are coming back this year). And I cannot wait to see the 2-hour premier! I live in Ireland and its being shown on Thursday. I’m going to torrent it tomorrow morning before going to work and watch it when I get home a full day before my Irish brethren can watch it (and without ads too!) The show runners have said that this year will be similar in tone to the 1st series and the trailer does look like a ton of money was thrown at it, just like the pilot episode. I have a question for the lucky people who have already seen the first 2 episodes. Are any of the long running big mysteries answered in the premier? And if so which mysteries? I’m not looking for spoilers, I just need to know that the show is going the way we have been promised by the writers, i.e. answers not more big mysteries because I cant see how they can wrap even more questions up in 16 episodes. Lost has really has been a hell of a 6 year ride, sure there were some dud episodes and some weird deaths, Eko for example, id love to see that one explained and the Libby situation I’m sure the writers could at least infer to the reasons of her mental hospital stay. The theory about Hurley and the collapsing decking causing her husbands death seems like a reasonable explanation. I wish the writers would just go with that because it seems to be really getting on the fans nerves! (Were not going to forget that loose end writers! Just tie it up already! It just like Irish girlfriend left in the shitty future in (shitty) Heroes, The fans are not going to let it go!!) All the other small mysteries that have been inferred to (therefore solved) are what make the show for diehard fans. (Teleporting polar bear /donkey wheel for example). Casual viewer like Olivier Hague seem to think that the show is rife with plot holes and if you were just a casual viewer that doesn’t think about what they are watching or misses episodes you could easily think that. But Ollie-Boy you are wrong its as simple as that. Christ, that Libby thing is bugging me but.. Get this.. I’ve seen recent spy set photo and it looks like Libby and Hurley are on a beech somewhere! Can any one confirm this? Oh and the proxy/ shoe thing made no sense to me what so ever, seemed a bit flaky in logic but that might just be me.
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This is a LOST thread.. why all the little bitchy moany groany about who likes lost and who doesn't.. and if the writers suck and don't.. we should be discussing theories.. asking questions.. helping out each other for answers, etc. Obviously there are people that won't like Lost and there are others that think it's the best. I think it's great and I'll enjoy it. One person's negative view isn't going to change that for me.
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just sayin'!!
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KEEP FEEDING THE TROLLS? Seriously, some douchebag wanders in and starts hating and derails the whole fucking thread. Some retards can't resist and HAVE to prove him wrong. Here's the thing ... opinions are like assholes, people.So, why doesn't everyone just ignore the hater and talk about what will likely be a spectacular upcoming season of LOST!Moving on ....
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I'm guessing Sayid, Ben, Richard and Sawyer.. he will die saving Kate's life. Anyone think that "Adam" and "Eve" will wind up being two totally different people?? Not Jack/Kate or Rose/Bernard... what about Vincent?? Is that the original dog from the pilot or have they had to switch him out??
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end of argument, there you go!
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Kate has a nice ass. I'll take 'em both.
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that we can agree on!!! Hooray for cans and booty!
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"With a 6 year show so much can happen. Actors might die or leave, new story ideas might evolve naturally, etc etc etc" That's very true, and surely also one of the reasons I find better realized plots in some animated series. Voice-actress #4 got pregnant? Ha, so what? In a years-long live-action TV show, there are so many things that could go wrong that you just can't expect the writers to plan everything out from the get go. But goddamnit, the nature of the island, the others, the monster... The big strokes, really! It doesn't look like the writers knew where they were going with all that (and I believe David Fury pretty much confirmed that in an interview, actually?)... For example, why the fake beards? What was the point? It's like the Others were supposed to be feral and whoops, the writers changed their collective mind and they actually live in this cozy little village after all. So they were fake beards and rags. Yeah. Don't ask. A point? Of course there was a point, just.... er... just don't ask what it was. I understand that live-action TV writers need to be given a bit of leeway, sure, but in the case of Lost, they often take more than just a bit...
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man.. as much as I hate quoting Hot Dog the movie.. I'd have Sunny side up, and sunny side down.. and sunny side all zee vay around..
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with nice cans and booty!
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Your admittance of midichlorian support has voided any validity to any and all opinions and arguments you may have/had. I am also now lead to believe your feet smell and your teeth are made of old chiclets.
I also don't like the way you dress.
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Actually I agree with Ollie on that. They have been blown way out of proportion. They don't explain the force, they explain why the force is in, or stronger in, certain people as opposed to others. So what?
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"According to you, a show with supernatural elements MUST if done PROPERLY- "needs to define its own set of rules and clearly communicate it to the viewers." Really? Why?" Because if _anything_ can happen at any given time, if "shut up, a wizard did it and that's all there is to it!" is a good enough explanation as far as the writers are concerned, where's the tension? Where's the suspense? Just in the background music and the actors' performances? Now, maybe that's enough for some, but I, for one, can't help but watch past that and expect some coherence (not _realism_, but _coherence_) plot-wise. I like it a whole lot better when I can think of a good reason as to why something is happening on the screen. When stuff gets utterly arbitrary, if not downright contradictory, I'm out. I guess I'm just weird that way, sorry.
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They made movies called Hot Dog (about competitive skiing) and Hamburger (about well a McDonald's type of business) these were the best movies in the world for 1980's boobie lets pull pranks on each other to get the girl movies..
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...never. Anywhere. There is no middle ground. You know, Olivier, whatever happens from here on out the worst Lost could be is a really good, compelling show. Well acted, great production values, some memorable characters, some great reveals. We're discussing the orgasm here, because the sex has been good. It hasn't been as good as it could have been, not every second (looking at you, Tailies) but certainly good enough to put Lost among the elite shows of the last decade. Now, for everyone who has been treating Olivier like Simon trying to explain what the pig head told him. Lost is a great show. Can't even say how excited (and a little bit fearful) I am about this last season kicking in. I've even tried watching all the previous seasons before it starts, though it is now officially impossible for me to quite make it. No matter what happens this season Lost will stand as one of the best fantasy/horror/scifi telvision series ever. But whether it stands as one of the best series ever will be determined by the payoff of this final season. And by the way, whatever was said in an interview, and whatever trope folks are playing about the show being "not a mystery but ABOUT a mystery", even the promos for this season, highlighting explicitly the word answers over and over again puts the lie to that. There are a lot of dangling threads and it is the job of the writers to tie them together. If they do a good enough job of that (not perfect, but a compelling, overarching explanation from which explanations of the majority of the ancillary and tertiary mysteries can be inferred) they will have won. If they don't it won't automatically make the entire show horrible or even not good, but it will deny it greatness. Personally, I think they've got a better than fifty/fifty shot of bringing the sucker home. By far the best recent example is Galactica, which, until its conclusion provided good characters, compelling through lines and many marvelous episodes. Perfect? No, there were a few bad spots before the finale, but the overall themes, character arcs and mystery of the show was of a quality you don't get that often in genre television, was of a quality that elevated to "best of" not just genre but television period. Then they fumbled the ending, badly. It didn't make the show bad. It didn't invalidate all the great character moments and episodes that came before. But it did, most definitely, lessen the depth and meaning of what had come before. Now however Lost ends some people aren't going to be happy. Locke, sitting in his wheelchair back at the paper company, could smirk, stand up and walk down the street to get in a car with his lawyer and some people will still hate it. (Okay, I would too...maybe...but you know what I mean). But mostly you'll know as this season unfolds, and certainly you'll know when the credits roll on that final episode. If it fails and you're really invested in loving it you'll sit there figuring out why that was okay, why that worked. If you're a little less invested in loving it and more invested in the show itself you'll feel kind of hurt and empty, maybe a little angry. And if you're like Olivier you'll feel vindicated. If it works the people most invested in loving it will feel victorious and vindictive, ready to bring the hammer of righteousness singing down on all those who dared question their show. Those who were most invested in the show will bask in this sweet little glow, sad its over but toasty at the same time (its okay, that's the little death, tv style and that's the one I hope to be enjoying myself). And people like Olivier will be looking for nits to pick and compiling a (much diminished)list of things that don't make sense or were not answered. But folks who love Lost? Maybe a little less venom as we work our way through this last season? Maybe less group think and attack mode? Maybe deal with people who have worries or quibbles in a way that doesn't make people like me uncomfortable, not with being a fan of the show but to come around these talkbacks? I've kind of avoided Lost talkbacks these past few seasons because they tend to get meaner and more strangely self congratulatory than a talkback on James Cameron and Joss Whedon making a Firefly/Avatar crossover. If everything goes well this should be the show's victory lap. Just enjoy it.
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McGoo and Hague.. go get a room.. you can cut the sexual tension with a knife.
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Are any major mysteries solved in the premier?
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These idiots insist on feeding the trolls. When will people ever learn? Hey guys, you are not going to change his mind, no matter how hard you try.LOST FTMFW!Oh, and cans, booty, boobs, ass, and scantily clad.
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Feb 02, 2010 11:38:47 AM CST
Been waiting for this night for a long time...
by fox_cancelled_my_life
I have had a shitty year so far and tonight has been the only bright spot for a long fucking time. BTW - where is the Stargate guy? Shouldn't he be trolling by now?
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Feb 02, 2010 11:38:50 AM CST
Been waiting for this night for a long time...
by fox_cancelled_my_life
I have had a shitty year so far and tonight has been the only bright spot for a long fucking time. BTW - where is the Stargate guy? Shouldn't he be trolling by now?
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That's where the thread should be going. Not midichlorians, anime and whatever other bullshit was flying around.
Watched the first 4 minutes the other day, and love how they are starting off on the plane again, with the branching reality. I wonder if they will come across Ben at all in LA when they land. Who will be aware that the bomb changed everything? Will Richard or Ben retain their knowledge of previous events? I doubt it, but I wonder how this is going to play into the previous season. Where is the link? Or is it completely reset now and we only move forward from here. -
wasn't aware they got those two back for sure, perty cool.
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I have a feeling we're going to find out more about smokey..
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Yeah, I'm an impatient cunt.But worry not, this episode kicks all fucking kinds of ass.Its mind-boggling that with just a few episodes left to go, the premire still manages to throw up at least a dozen new mysteries!Best line?"I'm sorry you had to see me like that."HOLY and SHIT.
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you might say, it's a "Locke", ha ha..
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My wife hates Lost, but always seems to give it the benefit of the doubt when each season premires. Will this season premire change her mind, or should I just get her drunk and let her play the Sims 3 all night?
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Why do I have to wade through fourteen-paragraph-long posts from these knuckleheads to find people actually talking about LOST here? Jesus. Anyway, I can't wait! This show has given me some great moments/memories over the years; hopefully, it won't disappoint. Time to go watch that scene from Gia where Elizabeth Mitchell makes out with Angelina and both sets of cans are in full force. Just gotta remind myself of what I WISH I could see on LOST...
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= the "Lost" version of AsimovLives?
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for Rose and Bernard.. they showed that they could just live on the island and exist.. Jack and the gang had to get all crazy about finding clues, etc.. not only that but the island sorta "cured" Rose, right? So not being on the island would make her be dying.. that and they've been taking care of Vincent.. which none of the other Losties have cared about.. still would be great to have a Vincent flashback episode..
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if shes not on board by the time the lost logo flies by i don't know why the fuck you married her. lol
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hilarity.. NOW THIS is a Lost talkback!
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"boo to talking about alternate realities? Olivier, do you think they will "properly" introduce the alternate realities with the "correct set of rules" you can understand and follow?" My magic 8 ball isn't optimistic... I mean, if the bomb going off is what prevented the crash, shouldn't the "they're still on the island" reality be one where the bomb _didn't_ go off? Heck, one could even wonder how a reality where the bomb went off and prevented the crash could exist at all, considering that's a big fat paradox: if the plane didn't crash, the Losties couldn't go back in time and set up the bomb. A possibility I could see (see? I can theorize about the series, too!) is that the bomb going off didn't prevent anything, that the Losties just played their part in history and were actually responsible for the incident in the first place (causal loop), that nothing changed
... and the so-called "flash-sideways" we'll be seeing this season are actually the product of some _other_ event we've yet to see. Perhaps even something that will happen on the island in the series finale, meaning the flash-sideways are actually the "happy ending" of the series. Ah, well, just random thoughts to kinda make up for my derailing (?) of this talkback... -
Lost has been one of the thorns in our relationship since 2004. Somehow I find a way to deal. We're going on vacation to Hawaii in May, and I've already planned a pilgramage to the north shore of Oahu...
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its a Locke? geerrrr cant....wait....any.....lon....ger!!! Gahhhhhhhhh (explodes)
(pulls back together again wooooooooo). Whats this? More mysteries? damn. are ANY old mysteries solved or at LEAST hinted at? -
And how bad is this bootleg?
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Woooooooo!
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Feb 02, 2010 11:58:42 AM CST
I agree with one of the posters in the TB for the first four min
by tyronebiggums
That scene in the S6 promo where Jack is in some kind of high-altitude temple where you see blue sky in the background, surrounded by hourglasses or tablets or something looks like it might be THE scene we've all been waiting for. The WTF look on his face, and perhaps from the same scene Jack asking (I think it is)Fake Locke, "WHY IS MY NAME ON THIS?!?!?!" Christ, I can't wait. I wish I could go back to 2005 (I watched S1 on DVD and caught up to real-time mid-S2) and tell myself "Boy are you in for some SHIT a few years from now!" Love this show.
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and holy hell, if you watched these preview clips the first bit youve already seen, but the rest? gaga.
...stopped at the logo so basically i just tortured myself, but it was worth it -
It's bad.. wait a few hours.. and you'll be happy you did.. honestly I didn't really watch it as much as I just skimmed through it.. it was only the 1st hour.. no 2nd hour.
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reading all the interviews with the cast has been interesting. whoever plays claire said it took her three times reading the script to figure out what is going on... maybe if she watched the show since she's been gone she'd have some idea.
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My got my GF in on it before Season 4, she watched all 3 seasons in a matter of days.. but when season 4 started the commercial breaks having to wait weekly killed her.. I rewatched with her and it was agonizing.. but it's Lost.. and it's the last season.. the last season!!! Holy Crap!! This time next year we won't have anything to look forward to.. NOOOOOOOOOOO!
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from what i understand is the ass kicker tonight thats why they only premiered the first hour in Hawaii there are alot more reveals in the second so didnt want that info blasted everywhere on net ect....So im more psyched for the second then the first hour
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"Your inability to grasp groundbreaking entertainment, and a NEED for all possible blanks to be filled" I never asked for "all possible blanks to be filled", but you need to fill enough blanks for the drama to make some sense and have some weight. Of course you could also go "the Lynch way" and have the whole thing be some kind of dream, as that allows for all kind of randomness, but that's obviously not the Lost angle.
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IGN just did an interview with Zuleikha Robinson for LOST S6. And she name checked "The Longest Journey" as her favorite video game of all time.
As a die hard fan of the game, I was ecstatic to see it getting some love from the LOST cast!!! It's a truly underrated sci-fi/fantasy gem. Really story driven as well, I think any LOST fan would enjoy it immensely.
Heck, the game's lead programmer at Funcom, Ragnar Tornquist, is even a huge LOSTie. -
is the top and who is the bottom in this relationship just curious?
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That if you over lay the Candidate numbers...4,8,15,16,23,42. If you overlay those numbers on the broadcast order of the X-files you get:
-Conduit
-Ice
-Lazurus
-Young at Heart
-Roland
-Fearful Symmetry
Episodes that thematically cover and offer explanation to all that has come and gone and going on LOST ..and are poet-y and kind of strangely relevant... to the specific numbers..hmmpf.
"At times I almost dream. I too have spent a life the sage's way. And tread once more familiar paths. Perchance I've perished in an arrogant self-reliance an age ago, and in that act of prayer for one more chance went up so earnest, so... Instinct with better light let in by death that life was blotted out not so completely, but scattered wrecks, enough of it to remain dim memories. As now, one seems once more... the goal in sight again." -The Field Where I Died.
Realize that that Epi of X-files was Season 4x05.
Haven't any of you kids ever watched the 'Wizard of Oz' ..while listening to the 'Dark Side of The Moon'? No? nichts?
Good and dear fluffy Lord...I weep for the future. 6ABX03 -
I had the S1 DVD when I had the flu...I laid in bed and watched EIGHTEEN STRAIGHT EPISODES. Then by the time I caught up to live airings, I was like FUCKKKKKKKKKK...Having to wait between seasons has been the most agonizing for me, especially o'course after WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!! That's the one good thing about the show ending. No more WTF-ing for nine months after.
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I'm sad to see it go.. it's the anticipation that sucks, but also it's moments like today where it reaches a fever pitch.. like a kid on Christmas Eve waiting to tear into some presents..
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retarded. While it's possible Damon and Carlton could mess up the ending... it's doubtful. Regardless of your personal opinion Lost is a legitimately great franchise with a very loyal and captivated audience. It has already gone down as one of the greatest Sci-fi series ever, even more so if they get the ending right. Go watch Heroes and the SyFy channel for about 12 hours to find out what shitty writing and sci-fi is.
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I watch Dexter and that season finale has got me waiting for September.. I wish they did seasons like they did back in the day.. start in September, end in May.. you have the summer off and it starts back again..
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Your ramblings make no sense. Lost does stick to pre-established rules. It has from day one. Smokey is chained from the ground. Jack is Claire's brother. Based on what happened in S1-S5, I still believe the theory that "what happens, happens". Regardless of whether or not the plane crashes or does not crash, Locke, Frank, Sun, and Illana always ends up in 2007 and Jacob always dies. I believe in S6 we WILL see Claire and Aaron airlifted from the island as Desmond predicted after Charlie's death.
And you complain only Desmond can suddenly change time? Says who? Daniel Faraday? There's certainly no evidence this is even true. As for Ben's cryptic riddles and rules, they are nothing more than his own mad theories.
You seem to confuse the fact that what the characters believe is canon is NOT the same as what Damon and Carleton DEFINE as canon.
Btw, is LOST even James Dobson approved? -
Congrats Hague, you win. You ave successfully derailed the thread. You have most of the people in the thred concentrating on you instead of the show you hate. Great job.
Unbelieveable how many people can't get it through their thick skulls that the guy is a hater, and nothing will change his mind. Here's a clue, calling him stupid or retarded isnt going to help. He hates the show. Just let it die already.
Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded! -
That would be 10.5 hours until I can finally watch two hour of Lost, Season Six. Teehee.
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How could anyone hate this show? It's a perfect combination of Gilligan's Island, Donnie Darko, and Scooby Doo?
Could it be that the theories have been so talked out that all that's left is leaving bear traps for trolls? Most of the time, the TB is more fun than the show. -
"Do you still have a deep rotted, or rooted, NEED to explain to all of us why you don't get Lost? Do you get it, yet?"No, you do't get it. You've already lost the argument. He's already wrapped you up in his web of bullshit, and you flailing around is just making it worse. Let it die, already.
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...the awesome made for TV earthquake movie!
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...because I think it's maybe gone a bit too far now. I have doubts, but I love the show and I AM really excited to finally watch two hours tonight. The only thing I would like to add, I think, is for some of you to remember or find some of the huge lists of questions/mysteries people have posted they're hoping will be answered. They won't all be answered or explained. Like I said before, personally, I'm OK with that. What concerns me is WHICH of them they leave unanswered. I hope that better explains what I've been trying to explain and gotten beaten about the head and shoulders over in a couple recent Lost threads.
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...haven't you taken one more step into the meta than either of them? You're now arguing about how they need to stop arguing? And haven't I now gone a step even farther, by pointing that out? Anyway, I've made it to season five on my rewatching mission. Not working at all today getting ready for tonight. We're having people over and my wife just showed off what we're going to be eating. No matter what happens with the season tonight is going to be great.
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...but I'm still drinking my first of eight cups of coffee for the day. You'll have to excuse the lack of clear verbiage.
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Feb 02, 2010 12:40:26 PM CST
Rod and other TBers who are actually talking about LOST:
by tyronebiggums
I'm out of here til 10:00! I'll see you guys on the other side, and in the multiple 2000-post-long LOST TB's to come! Happy viewings! "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" "Ille que nos omnes servabit."
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Feb 02, 2010 12:40:35 PM CST
Rod and other TBers who are actually talking about LOST:
by tyronebiggums
I'm out of here til 10:00! I'll see you guys on the other side, and in the multiple 2000-post-long LOST TB's to come! Happy viewings! "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" "Ille que nos omnes servabit."
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...since I like what you said I'm not going to quibble with how you said it. I am going to pause 0502 and get a cup of coffee though. I'm suggestible.
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Whatever. Always gunna be haters. Lost hasnt been perfect in all its beats, but overall has been incredible. Moving right along, so maybe it would be logical to assume with all of the "ghosts" that have been showing up, and seem slated to show up, that in addition to the island being an anomaly in time it is also an anomaly in space, and the "Incident" caused a tear between realities, causing them to bleed together. I imagine that this caused issues in alternate realities where the Losties never crashed, the incident never happened, but it is affecting them regardless, and now all the pieces need to be put back together. Its hard to say if this was intended by Jacob (or whoever the hell that dude is) or was unintended, but Im guessing the former. Im sure Im not the first person who has thought about this, but Im kinda just thinking outloud, see if we can talk about something other than how shitty the show supposedly is.
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and amalgamate their names you get: "Gracious, High King, Substitute, Leader, God's, Authorty"
touched
adj.
1. Emotionally affected; moved: very touched by the stranger's kindness.
2. Somewhat demented or mentally unbalanced.
the razors and the dying roses
plead i don't leave you alone
the demi-gods and
hungry ghosts
god, god knows i'm not at home
i'll never find someone
quite like you
again
i, i looked into your eyes and
saw a world that does not exist
i looked into your eyes and
saw a world i wish i was in... -
keep the faith.. enjoy the ride.
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is the bad guy??
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It's hard to have interestng convo when it's all "I hate lost" and "You just don't understand it, are you too stupid?" and "It sux compared to anime". Motherfucking stimulating.
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After watching it all last week, knowing all the things we learned about Jacob and Evil Locke and whatnot, its amazing how it all hangs together. The whole show is a chess match between the man in white and the man in black...
The man in black (who sometimes is a smoke monster) plots and schemes and maneuvers to get a third party (Ben) to murder the man in white because he is unable to, and he uses Locke as a means of by-passing that pesky Richard...
...and the man in white plots and schemes and maneuvers because he seems to know he'll ultimately be killed, and has to shift all his people into place to cause The Incident which will presumable give him an out, by way of alternate reality.
Also: Olivier schooled you all! Not that anything he says is valid in any way. most of what he says is crap, but he made everyone look at him! -
be answered? I guess I don't care where Claire has been. She's a whiny one anyway. Anyone?
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That would not shock me one bit. We shall see though.
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you know I can see what you're saying.. what if in one reality Jack was the drunk who wound up dying instead of Christian?? alot of what drunk Jack was saying at the hospital when he was escorted out hasn't really been cleared up.. or has it?? also, didn't Jack talk to his dad when he sobered up and he was in a dark hallway at the hospital??
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Lost is a show that is sort of "critic-proof" at this point. You can't really judge what's going on until you can see the big picture. The big picture is hidden away in this season which will ultimately determine whether Lost is the greatest show ever or everything has been a colossal waste of time. The problem I have with arrogant pricks like Olivier Hague is that they are arrogant enough to believe that they already see the whole picture and can see the unseen hand of the writers. Take for example this complaint, 'Ben couldn't kill Widmore because the writers just pulled that out of their ass to create cheap tension and have no explanation for it.' Well, maybe the writers did pull it out of their ass, or maybe there is a satisfying explanation for it. We don't know yet, so we cannot judge. That's why the show at this point is critic proof. If this season has an awful unsatisfying conclusion, such as 'it was all Hurley's dream' (which I really doubt will be the case), then I will be right alongside Hague in criticizing the show. Until then, I will maintain a degree of humility and not make assumptions about the unseen writers' hands. I do feel sorry for Hague since his lack of humility disables him from enjoying the ride. Us Lost fans have had a lot of fun these years.
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right now everything is speculation.. I was reading season 1 talkback.. and lots of out there theories.. who would have thought about a hatch or hyroglyphics?? and honestly tons of people thought the hatch was a spaceship or something.. which I guess it might still be aliens..
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Lovely to not get smacked with a 2x4 for expressing doubts (for once). And. Coffeeeeee.... mmmmmmm.
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None of you have realized it yet, but you have been played this whole time. Carlton=McGooCain, Lindelof=Olivier Hague
They have been going back and forth this whole time just stirring up the pot. Very clever gentlemen, I am amazed I actually took the time to read any of it. -
From a writing standpoint, I am hoping that they are meticulous from here on out. With pocket universes, alt timelines, time travel and the like, it can get messy. Trying to do too much could spoil the milk. I loved BSG, but in the end, I think they were just trying too hard. I have really enjoyed everything thus far, but I am concerned that the details, themes, and motifs will bring the house down. I would almost prefer a simplicity to it all by the end.
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However, I think the MIB might have him trapped.What's wierd though, is why can Ben and Widmore apparently not kill each other, much in the same manner as MIB and Jacob? What could possibly be preventing either of them from taking the other out?
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Personally, the one thing people continue to bring up that I really don't give a shit about is where the Dharma food drop from the first season came from and who was behind delivering it, etc. It just doesn't matter anymore. A few first season things they did to be add mystery and another layer of intrigue don't need to be addressed. I suppose its possible they will tie it in with the time travel aspect...but really I hope they just ignore it. Just about any explanation will seem forced and irrelevant at this point.
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The Others don't seem to take kindly to killing their own (hence Juliet getting banished in Season whenever that was). Maybe its just a deep-seated costum of their people!
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If they focus on the characters, which they say they will do, I think it will be awesome. I want to know what happened and why, but I hope there is not too much technobabble and exposition to rally slow the story down.
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Ya, I think they really just wanted to avoid explaining how these people didn't just starve to death or suffer malnourishment. Otherwise every actor on the show would have to pull a Bale in The Machinist. Pretty F-ing convenient to have a food drop really. I wish there was one in my backyard once a week too.
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No, I think there is more to it than just an "Others custom". There seems to be something preventing them from just offing one another. Widmore has Alex killed, and Ben, instead of killing Widmore tries to take out Penny. With Ben, I' think all customs would have gone out the window after Alex dies.
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not "but they an". F-ing wireless keyboard.
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Yes! I know they had to get us to the big picture, but at the end of the day, the characters are what made it for me. I have never watched a show where I changed my mind about a character more than this one. Hate Locke, love Locke. Hate Jack, Love Jack. Etc. They gotta keep that focus tight.
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I've said since day one that ultimately the character development part of the show and the mythology part of the show will intersect. S5 Finale finally showed us how. Jacob and MIB (the mythology) seemed to have some sort of contest regarding the nature of humanity (the characters) and the entire show is ultimately about this.
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...actually maybe I'm being a little too forgiving here, or bringing too much to the party, but I had sort of thought of that as answered by the malleable but oddly directed nature of the island itself. There was at some point in history, in some version of history, an airdrop of food. Whatever force (or it seems more likely to me now one of the forces) on the island made them land in a time and place that was useful to its purposes. I guess I would consider that one of the tertiary mysteries that a satisfying arching explanation would render moot. That's right, I said moot. Mess with me and I'll say it again.
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He died, but his candidates (the Losties) will ultimately prove he is right instead of the MIB. "They are coming" is his ace is the hole that will ensure he wins despite his death.
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Hey Red Ned - Your long post above was terrific and ridiculously well written, I'm surprised no one responded to it.
Ollie boy, you've made some extremely valid points in general, but the thing is, I'm willing to look past all the faults that Lost's storytelling seems to have in terms of consistency, and this is for one reason: While The Wire appeals to my mind and is OBJECTIVELY most likely the best show on TV, Lost appeals to my heart and everything that makes me who I am. It has Egyptian mythology, time travel, meditations on fate, spiritual entities, mysterious numbers, ancient statues, scientific expeditions gone wrong, polar bears, supernatural whispers, alternate realities, frozen ice chambers, unpredictable donkey wheels, wormholes...it's a collage of wondrous concepts that inspire and fascinate the adventure-loving kid inside of me. It's encouraged me to spend countless hours on wikipedia delving deeper and deeper into concepts of philosophy, sociology, religion, history, science fiction, and even physics to a certain extent (Casimir effect anyone?) etc, which is something I can't say that for The Wire. The Wire showed me the seedy underbelly of a crime-ridden American city and showed me how institutions can crush the individual, and vice-versa. And I loved every second of it. But whenever I finished an episode, that was it for me. With Lost, because it is such a melting pot of literary, historical, scientific, philosophical, and sociological references, I would easily lose myself for hours in wikipedia after any given episode because I'd be busy looking up all the stuff it had mentioned during its run-time. It made me feel like a kid again, hungry for knowledge and excited at the vast reach of human history and thought.
I don't think there's anything wrong with loving a show like Lost, flaws and all. I think comparing it to The Wire is ridiculous. It's like preferring Indiana Jones to The French Connection - they're both fine movies, but the former has such a strong spirit of adventure and entertainment that even though The French Connection is one of the finest crime movies ever made, it's Indiana Jones we're still talking about years later... -
Feb 02, 2010 1:11:36 PM CST
I seriously have not been this excited since X-Files S7
by ashokforgiven
Seriously, I don't think I've been excited about anything like LOST S6 since the 1990s, when FOX lied to its fans hailing S7 to be the final season of XF. Oh, the glourious days of Sixth Extinction 1+2, X-Cops, Closure, En Ami, Je Souhaite, and Requiem.
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I think that's what has made Lost really great.. is the love/hate aspects of the characters.. like Sawyer season 1 (a-hole)..
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I don't think enough was discussed regarding the nature of Jacob. Watch the S5 finale and notice how Jacob never did anything to anyone. He never told anyone what to do or what not to do or used events to manipulate them. "You have a choice" was his mantra. He talked to Hurley about returning to the island, but never told him he had to. He always gave people choices, right up until he told Ben he had a choice about whether or not to kill him. This echoes Bram's discussion with Miles about going to the island. He told Miles he should not go, but it was ultimately his choice. MIB on the other hand manipulates people, threatens people. He uses the smoke monster, visions, Christian Shepherd to get people to do what he wants. Jacob needs people to make the right choices on their own in order to prove his point to MIB. His interactions with the Losties as children was him simply seeking out new candidates.
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This is one of the few shows where my friends and I have actually discussed things with substance and heft. Whether or not all of the questions get answered this season (they won't, not ALL of them), is beside the point for me. I enjoy the intellectual workout the show gives me. Hell, even people who claim to hate the show and proceed to point out all of the plot holes, continuity breaks and unresolved threads are using their noggins for something other than a hat rack. to me, that makes this show a success.
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if Gwennyth Paltrow's head is in Hurly's guitar case..
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Since it finally told us what this show is about. By 'about' I mean what the point of it all is. We know the show is 'about' people stranded on an island. But we didn't really know the purpose or motive behind the story. We now know what it is. Lost is about a contest/game/argument between Jacob and MIB and the whole show has been the events of this playing out.
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And I wonder, in the finale was the incident Jacob dying, or the bomb? Jacob dying has a ton of future implications, including recruiting the losties. Perhaps the bomb merely serves as sort of a reset. Jacob dies, MIB wins and darkness reigns on the island. But the bomb goes off and resets everything. Perhaps including Jacob's death.
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What are the Losties candidates for? Leadership of the Island? Or something much bigger?
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I think Jacob is a being of pure good. I think proving his point about the nature of humanity is more important to him than dying. I think he knew he was going to die and it was a sacrifice that was all part of his plan. Just because he's dead doesn't mean he loses his argument.
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you guys are in the right direction.. I think the "Incident" can be interpreted many ways.. but I thought they referred to the "Incident" as the reason they had to punch in those numbers.. I could be wrong.. I think Jacob is pure good too and he knew it was his plan, etc. He seemed underwhelmed that MIB "found his loophole".. like he knows what is going to happen..
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But is there a lot more at stake? If MIB wins, is the future of the world at risk? Or is it localized to the island?Also, has Ben been manipulated by MIB the whole time? Was Ben's Jacob really MIB. If Jacob is good and light, it seems like some of the stuff Ben was ordered to do was not so nice.The Other's are maybe MIBs manipulated "army" going up against Jacob's test case in the Losties? MIB manipulates Ben, making him think he's talkin to Jacob. Ben does his bidding, and tries to get the Losties to fail the "test", lost the contest for Jacob? I dunno.
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Jacob is trying to prove something about the nature of humanity. Recall the initial conversation between Jacob and MIB at the beginning of S5 finale.
BLOND MAN: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.
GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I am. How did they find the Island?
BLOND MAN: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.
GRAY-HAIRED MAN: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
BLOND MAN: You are wrong.
GRAY-HAIRED MAN: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
BLOND MAN: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
The Black Rock people were his old candidates. The Oceanic people are his new candidates. I believe Jacob visited them as children because he has been watching them and possibly thousands of other people their lives in order to decide who would be his new candidates. Jacob ultimately chose Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc to prove his point not because they are good people but because they are flawed people who will ultimately make a good choice (probably in the S6 finale). -
I think there is a theme that I'm sure we've all seen.. when Locke first saw Smokey he said it was "beautiful".. does that mean that maybe MIB is Smokey and can show whatever he wants to anyone? and thus using Locke's "faith" as his downfall? Poor Locke.. always being manipulated..
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I was going to throw my two cents in but why bother. the only extra thing i might add is that IMO the cabin/"jacob" we've seen from the beginning is actually smokie/mib.. who then used ben the whole time, which when you look at it explains the way he solves his problems, with manipulation and lies... Bens going to end up quite the tragic hero thinking he was serving jacob and the island the whole time only to find out he was being used right to the end. kind of like locke used to be, pre-island, no? ;)
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that there always seems to be 2 guys like different sides of a coin.. is Whitmore good?? we don't know.. but I think ultimately yes.. and maybe doing things the way him and Hawking have done them is to try to stop their son from dying.. but those who have selfish reasons to use the island seem to usually end up banned from it.. unless you're Ben who seems to always weasel his way back..
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I'm down.. time to buckle up and enjoy the ride!!
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I believe he is smokey. IF you watch the episode where Ben is judged by the monster the strongly hint at that. Ben goes to summon the monster and fakeLocke comes out of the woods. Ben sees the smoke monster and his dead daughter when fakeLocke goes to get a rope to help Ben. That prick is prob also Christian as well.
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and should just start doing massive amounts of Gonzo porn.
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Feb 02, 2010 1:42:36 PM CST
Evi is OK, but she prob isn't strong eno to be huge past Lost.
by ashokforgiven
I would be heartbroken, however, if Elizabeth Mitchell quit acting.
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to do a run to the store for some depends before the show starts. haha
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Feb 02, 2010 1:44:59 PM CST
It Would Be Epic If It Turned Out Widmore Was Good/On Jacobs Sid
by crow3711
Even if he is a smarmy prick and was mean to Desmond, doesn't mean it isn't possible. It seems likely to me, in fact. And if you think, he did give birth to Penny, an extremely intelligent and good person. I don't think things are as they seem. I like this theory of Ben being manipulated by MiB all along. This TB just got fucking INTERESTING.
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Ive wondered about that scene too, where hes drunk and tells the other doctor to go talk to his dad. Eventually I just figured it was intentional misdirection by the writers, but I always did feel that it was a bit unfair. Maybe youre right though, could be referring to an alternate reality anomaly that we all didnt catch at the time.
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I'm positive MIB either IS Smokey or Smokey is in cahoots with him in some way. This is especially clear, as Kenny just pointed out, when you rewatch the interaction between Ben and Alex/Smoke Monster. I would also guess MIB is behind Christian Shepherd and probably most of the other happenings on the island. The Others could have possibly been working for MIB this whole time when they thought they were working for Jacob.
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If someone said this already IDK that locke and Jack could end up replacing Jacob and MIB on the islandi know what im saying is simplistic but could they in the end of things be replacements ok now destroy me silly lol
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i believe that was one of Doc Jensens theories in last weeks column. check it out at ew.com - pretty good theories once you get past everything about the police
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I was just speculating...but even so: Widmore actually asked to have Ben taken alive, and didn't actually ask to have Alex killed. But when Ben's internal logic led him to blame Widmore for her death, and showed up in Widmore's bedroom and said: "You broke the rules". And Ben felt free to kill Penny, because she was born off island and is not an Other.
Again, I don't put much weight in this theory, but based on what we've seen in the show, it actualy holds together. -
I think that would be a pretty cool ending myself.
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Was also Yemi and the Black Horse Kate sees. Dick has been manipulating shit since day 1!
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...is Smokie and cabin "Jacob". Thus been has Ben manipulated and corrupted for years by MIB. Perhaps Ben is a tragic hero in the making. He ended up killing the real Jacob after years of mistreatment by MIB.Still wonder about the Widmore, Ben thing though. If Ben is good, but misunderstood, which I long suspected, then what is Widmore? Ben's interest has always been to protect the island. Widmore seems to want to use/abuse it. Is he as straightforward "evil" as he seems?Still wondering about the inability to kill each other.
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"Lost is a show that is sort of "critic-proof" at this point. You can't really judge what's going on until you can see the big picture." That's unfortunately a common logical fallacy. Let's picture a silly scene for a moment... We're at Comic-Con or whatever and the infernal tandem of Lost writers takes the podium in front of all their fans. Here's what they say: "Thank you all for coming here, and bicycle yellow sweet peas humble kung fu 134 point bêta..." until I finally go (yeah, because I'm in attendance: I'm obviously some kind of masochist, as you should know by now): "what the fuck, that doesn't make sense!"... and all the Lost fans slowly turn toward me: "How the fuck do you know that the sentence doesn't make sense WHEN IT'S NOT EVEN OVER YET?! HA!" (presumably, I end up being beaten to death with my own shoes) Hopefully, you're seeing what I'm getting at, here: sometimes, there comes a point where a sentence (_or_ the plot of a TV show!) just _can't_ make sense anymore, no matter how hard you try, no matter how talented you are. A point of no-return beyond which all you can hope for is some amount of damage control, if that. And Lost has unfortunately entered that zone very early on.
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I would assume we will learn more about what the "rules" are between the 2 of them. But yes it certainly does look like Ben's whole life was manipulated by the MiB. poor guy.
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The only reason why i say that is because of this scene early on in first season http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqruY6tlay4 and how its similar to Jacob/MIB convo in last seasons finale http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTF2Vd--yIw&feature=related
call me stupid but it kinda fits but who knows -
OK seriously shut the fuck up now. Its over, you won, Lost sucks.
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I also hope we finally see something on these fools in season 6. Not sure if we will though.
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All the people who write Lost, I hate you. Youre obviously much smarter than I am, and that bothers me. Keep up the good work. Assholes.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9sfhtDKvUc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc9D5BAWT-M&feature=related -
You're post didn't bring anything new to your argument. You say Lost has crossed into the point of no return for a satisfying conclusion. I still maintain it is arrogant to presume so. I will also add that I am a cynical person myself. But watching this show thus far has shown me that the writers are pretty smart and have earned a certain amount of faith to maintain my humility.
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Ill check it out for sure, i had come to a bit of that conclusion just because the writers/creators said that this season they were going to focus on alot on the relationship between Locke and Jack. So I re-watched the first 3 seasons and instead of focusing on all and they are important things of the show i basically really just watched how they both interacted with one another and to me it seems and im not that smart obviously but there tension reminds me alot of what Jacob and MIB have and it goes without saying i could be very wrong and im sure i am but just some food for thought.....
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Because y'all are doing too much thinking. Gonna be 2000 posts before the show ever airs. I betcha Jeff Fahey is one happy SOB. It didn't even compute for me until I did a re-watch of the entire series recently that that was The Lawnmower Man. I mean, I knew I recognized him and his name. But then one day it clicked, like, "holy shit, that's The Lawnmower Man! And he can actually act!" Now back to your regularly scheduled way over the top hypothesising (seriously, though, you guys have some really good thoughts, I just don't want to have too many preconceived ideas about what's going on before I start watching - rather discuss it as it's actually happening).
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Jacob and MiB. Two players. One is light, one is dark. The only thing is at this point it seems more like chess. Jacob let's his pieces play for themselves. MiB uses his players as roughly as possible. Love that this theme from season one is yet another example of LOST carrying things throughout the whole journey.
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...knowing that Locke isn't Locke, and it becomes kind of obvious that MIB is the smoke monster and that he's manipulating everyone. It all falls into place when Ben goes to the temple, is confronted by the smoke monster which then turns into Alex and commands "Do Whatever Locke Says!". It then turns back into Locke and on the beach asked Ben: "Now You'll Do Whatever I Say, Right?"
I don't think that's too much of a mystery anymore. Which is why this show is brilliant: it presents mysteries that it then solves in subtle unobvious ways where you the viewer have to connect the dots.
Olivier just isn't very good at dot-connecting so he doesn't like the show. -
Huh? I've seen all five seasons of LOST and the show makes perfectly clear sense to me. You're probably one of those few saps who couldn't even figure out the rules of 12 Monkeys, even though there wasn't even a paradox.
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of the show a close up of Jacks or Lockes eye and then a pan out and them sitting on the beach and a small convo about what and how about what happened will happen again ect.... AND I KNOW ILL SAY IT CHEESY AND UNORIGINAL ill now go in my corner LOL
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I just rewatched season 5 and yes they do pretty much tell you Locke is the smoke monster more or less. There was also a cool little hint in the Incident which told you that Locke's body was in the crate Illana's people were carrying. It goes from a shot of the crate to a shot of a casket at Sawyer's dad's funeral. A cool little hint right there.
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I'm on the non-"everything is going to turn out perfectly and make sense" side of this argument. I have been for quiet some time. I even stopped watching the series at some point near the end of season two, and skipped season three altogether. But these talkbacks convinced me to give it another try for season four and I've been with it ever since. I've also re-watched the entire series over the last month (and prior to season four) and I gotta say that I think you're trying WAY to hard here. The show does make sense when you watch it from beginning to end, so far. That doesn't mean there aren't mysteries and questions to be solved and answered, just that it DOES make sense. There are many pleasing storylines that are tied together nicely. There's a TON of enjoyable characters (everybody has favorites I'm sure) and character archs to get into as the show moves along. There have been some weak points, quite a few of them in fact (time travel bugs me to no end, personally). For sure there are plot holes that may or may not be filled by seasons end. But your endless diatribes about how bad the show sucks, how much they've failed, etc etc, are not only getting tired, but they don't really make a whole lot of sense at this point. First, because it's pretty clear that people here don't agree with you and never will. Second, because the series isn't over yet, so you really have no ground to stand on in regards to most of you points of contention. As I've mentioned before, I don't like a lot of what they've done to string us along and I'm really not excited for any kind of alternate timeline or time re-boot. But that doesn't mean that they haven't done a more than admirable job tieing together most of the mysteries/questions, leading us to believe that the show may have a great sixth season. And they've certainly produced at least, ehh, I'll give 'em 3.5 seasons of incredible television (better than pretty much anything else on the big three). I'm really not sure what you're trying to prove here. But even to a doubter like me you've just become an annoying nuisance. OK, done now.
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of having to pause this show every 5 minutes and explain shit to my wife because she can't remember anything for longer than a month. Oh joy !
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"I still maintain it is arrogant to presume so. I will also add that I am a cynical person myself. But watching this show thus far has shown me that the writers are pretty smart and have earned a certain amount of faith to maintain my humility." Well, 'looks like we had radically different experiences! You're saying that I didn't bring anything new, but I believe I already listed a bunch of things that make me go "do the writers really think I didn't see that one?" There's the thing about the Others wearing fake beards and rags for no apparent reason (the actual reason being, as Fury confirmed, that the Others weren't supposed to be living in some Dharma village in the first place... the writers changed their mind at some point, and it shows... badly). The thing about the Others sending Jack, Sawyer and Kate back to the beach despite the fact they were on Jacob's list (the reason obviously being that the writers hadn't thought of that list yet at that point... whoops). That whole thing about Ben being unable to leave the island for his surgery... for some reason we'll never know: Tom was saying it had something to do with the sky turning purple before being (hilariously... I mean, c'mon, writers... I saw what you did there, and it wasn't exactly elegant) interrupted, but obviously, that didn't stop Tom from leaving the island later on. What gives? Rousseau spent more than a decade on the island and somehow managed never to find the Others even though they live out in the open in a village surrounded by one huge sonic fence? I mean, come the fuck on. Once again, that seemed somewhat more believable back when the Others were supposed to be feral... Rousseau calls the monster a security system, and that doesn't elicit any follow-up questions? (that thing about the lack of follow-up questions could really be said about many, many scenes in the series...) During the lockdown, Ben enters the numbers (presumable, or the station would have imploded, yes?) and pretends he didn't because... because what? At the time, it was intriguing, but now, years later, "what the fuck was _that_ about, in the end?" That, Walt's powers, and many, many other things just _scream_ "we just wanted to be as intriguing as possible, open a bunch of doors, incite speculation and theories... but we really had no idea what it was all about ourselves... and we still don't, so please forget about all that, kthanks!" That kind of cheap tactics could be considered smart for a salesman, but for a writer...
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"You're probably one of those few saps who couldn't even figure out the rules of 12 Monkeys, even though there wasn't even a paradox." C'mon, I used the words "causal loop" in this talkback, and that should tell you whether or not I understood 12 Monkeys right there, really...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWeW-T1rtwE&feature=related
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Every complaint you list has to do with you assuming you know what the writers are thinking. "the writers changed their mind" - "the reason is obvious being that hadn't thought of that" - "things just scream we just wanted to be as intriguing as possible, open a bunch of doors, incite speculation and theories" - "I see what you did there". Again, you are arrogant to presume to know what was going on in the heads of the writers and what they were trying to do by including these unanswered questions. Or you are psychic. None of the questions you bring up have been answered yet. This season will ultimately tell us what has been going on in the heads of the writers this entire time. Maybe you are right and they just made up stuff for cheap mystery. Or maybe it all makes sense. You are arrogant to presume one way or the other. Why am I repeating myself? Do you not understand me?
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I am not going to get into an argument about the writers making shit up but I do think they fucked up with Walt. Obviously he had a purpose but since he looks more like Shaft now than a 12 year old his story got scrapped. That will prob piss all LOST fans off more than anything IMO.
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they knew this kid was going to grow and get older i hope but they could have avoided by explaining right away it would have been better for the story arc but jesus didnt write this show and nobody's perfect so ill live with it
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They filmed some Season 6 scenes with Walt years ago so he would still be young. Therefore they had a plan.
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...but only because thinking back to all the plot points Olivier brings up is kind of fun and intellectually stimulating...
* Ben couldn't go back to the mainland after the sky went purple because the nutty electromagnetic burst from the hatch messed up thier communications and they couldn't radio for the submarine to come pick him up. The fact that Tom left later displays that the interference obviously wasn't permanent.
* Doesn't the fact that the open village is surrounded by a sonic fence that keeps people away from it lead to the assumption that maybe Rousseau has never been able to approach the open village because of the sonic fence that keeps people away from it?
* Rousseau is obviously aware of The Others...they stole her baby and she lived many years in a paranoid panic due to their trapsing and whispering all over the island.
* Ben messing with Locke was a power play. Because of Locke's time-traveling, he kept popping up in Others' history to the point where Richard (and presumable other Others) see him as some kind of messiah. When he actually shows up on the island, Ben feels his leadership is being challenged and does everything in his power to undermine Locke and his confidence. If Locke feels his sole purpose in life is to push that button, what better way to knock him down a few pegs than to illustrate (through deception) that the button is nothing but a joke and that Locke's purpose in life isn't just some kind of purposeless game. And it worked! Locke was a sniveling mess through most of season 3 to the point where Terry O'Quinn even complained about the pussified direction of the character.
I could go on, and maybe will later, but some of us gotta work. -
I heard that is a false rumor and actually they could have him back now considering the whole time travel/ 3 years later aspect that season 5 took on. But I guess that ship has sailed (literally)
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is the source info on what u say id like to read it that would be cool
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Oh, it maybe it is a false rumor. Sorry.
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..got a lot more structured when they announced it would go six seasons. They were kind of in a rut before that, but after the first arc of season 3 the show has been great. There are a lot of unanswered questions from season 2 though, many of which I doubt will be answered. But honestly the major plot points and mysteries will prob be shown in some form to us.
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this talkback becoming what it's supposed to be.. so many theories.. so many possibilities.. can't wait!!
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take a shit guy?? Man.. I miss him..
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"Every complaint you list has to do with you assuming you know what the writers are thinking. "the writers changed their mind"" Guess you missed the one that was actually confirmed by a former writer. Fury also said that Walt was supposed to be the one conjuring the polar bears. Obviously, that changed, too. Not just speculation on my part, sorry. As for the ones that weren't actually confirmed by Fury, I'd really like to know how else you'd explain all that... Why the fuck did the Others let Jack, Sawyer and Kate go when, as it was later "revealed", they were already "on the list" at that point? Like I said, I believe it's pretty clear the writers simply hadn't thought of the list yet, but if you can think of an in-universe explanation, go ahead. Same thing for the other examples. "None of the questions you bring up have been answered yet. This season will ultimately tell us what has been going on in the heads of the writers this entire time. Maybe you are right and they just made up stuff for cheap mystery. Or maybe it all makes sense." Like I said earlier, that's a logical fallacy. You don't necessarily need to wait for the end of a sentence/TV show to tell that it won't make sense in the end.
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How about the mystery behind why Radzinsky cut out part of the Swan
Station Orientation film, hid it in a hollowed out Bible, and put the Bible in the Arrow Station. I will be surprised if we get an answer for that. -
hahahah I used to just be a lurker on this board but I always died laughing at Paulo being known as Take a Shit Guy. hahaha
Hopefully he can take 1 last dump in season 6!! -
been known as the Take a Shit Guy? He was the original.. in fact he was taking it when the plane ripped in half.
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it was because radzinsky was a paranoid asshole... he went apeshit over people even *seeing* his retarded little model.
Man was i happy when he bit it. -
After the first season the biggest theory was that they were all dead in some kind between heaven and earth thing lol anyone else remember theories from way back then
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I agree with this Radzinsky faked getting his brains fried.. he was all kinds of crazy..
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I don't know where you get your sources where writer tell you that they are changing their minds about stuff - so no comment there. "You don't need to wait for the end of a story to tell if it will make sense in the end" You can always assume, as you do, whether it will or not, but you can't know for sure until you get the big picture. As for explaining the answers to all your questions. If you're asking me to do that then you still don't understand my point. I do not presume to know these answers or what the writers were thinking when they gave us the questions.
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at least we know what Mike Sever's teacher has been up to.. totally didn't realize that about Bernard until the other day..
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Can you please stop whining at Olivier? You're just coming off as a complaining asshole as bad as him. Unless you're specifically explaining the plot-points he doesnt' understand, just be quiet. You're just cluttering up the talkback.
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Ultimately the difference between you and I is how much faith we have in the writers. You have zero faith in the writers so you assume that every crazy thing that happens on the show was just pulled out of their ass for a cheap effect. I have about 80% faith in the writers. There are some things that even I suspect were ass-pulled, but not nearly as much as you. We will have to watch Season 6 to find out which one of us was closer.
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Once again, truly words from the mouth of an idiot. It must be incredibly convenient and liberating to be able to say that nothing in the show makes sense and nothing has been properly explained when there's still 18 hours of LOST left to go. You can keep your bullshit manga/anime/Jap porn, I'm sure it's all just a metric shit-ton better than Lost, just like The Sopranos, The Wire, Twin Peaks, blah blah blah...
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That, or some form of WAY more evolved life form who have been hiding out on the island for eons (hence, the Egyptian connection), are two of the things I've thought might be happening all along. Doesn't always jive with the shock so many of the islands inhabitants have had to a plane crashing and with survivors turning up on their island, though. Maybe they got lazy, or lost control for a blip in time. Still wouldn't jive with Locke playing such a major roll in the light vs dark struggle. I'm mostly just hoping it doesn't turn out to have anything to do with any kind of religiosity. That will seriously disappoint me.
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Come on guys, there has been a shit load of writers on this show and they've obviously disregarded some of what came before each time somebody new has been hired. The writing on the show has not been perfect and there is NO WAY everything will be answered and explained. But, for the most part the writing has been really good, sometimes exceptional. And as I said above they've done a more than admirable job tying together enough of the mysteries that season six could be really freakin' incredible. So how about we all stop responding to the Haguester now and get on with discussions about the show. He's been given enough time in this thread already. The show is not perfect (by your own admissions in a few of the recent posts to this thread), lets just deal with that and move on season six. Please.
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...that bearded guy from the original film they saw in the Swan station? I forget his name.
I'm starting to think either all the gods of destiny and fate are stuck on this island -or- Jacob is Aaron... which would make the asian guy Sun and Jin's daughter after a sex change. lol -
Locke's importance was manufactured by MIB as a means of sublimating Richard and the Others. Once they accepted him as their messiah, Locke could die, MIB could take his place and easily manipulate someone (Ben, as it turned out) to kill Jacob. It really makes the actual John Locke into a far more pathetic character that we ever thought he could be!
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Move on
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I think this whole thing can be settled in the fact that who gives a crap about the writers?? When I watch TV or a movie or a play I don't really care about the writers.. I care about the characters they created.. to escape a bit.. that's entertainment.. when you get to the point of acting like you know the writers and how they should write, you're giving up being entertained.. you're like watching a magic show and then telling everyone how it's done.. or wanting to know how a trick is done.. it's entertainment.. you're like friggin' Egon from Ghostbusters straightening out your slinky... just play with the toy.. and enjoy it.. it's better than most stuff out there anyway.. and if you want to be a writer.. go write.. then some little dipshit will talk about how you suck and how you have plotholes..
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If I remember correctly, the part that was cut out was talking about how no one should ever use the computer for anything other than inputting the numbers and should not use it to communicate with the outside world. Why someone would edit this out and hide it in a Bible - I have no idea.
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He responded to Oliviers comments with a well thought out response. Its a shame that the rest of the Lost Lovers can't do the same.
I find Lost a throughly entertaining show but have had my moments when I gave been fed up to the back teeth of it, for some of the reasons Olivier mentioned.
But it seems that very few people are like Red Ned and live in a balanced world where somebody criticising aspects of the show you LOVE ( Capitals denote fanatical insanity) isn't akin to them raping your Granny.
The responses to Olivier have generally been bile filled unreasoned pap and its you guys that deserve the title "haters".
Not one of you have come up with a reason why Lost is as great as you say it is and very few acknowledge the big white elephant in the room, that over a period of time its started to disappear up its own backside. Hopefully they can pull it back this season but we'll still have a show where, when you know a lot of the answers at the end and can't claim that a big reveal is coming, you'll realise that vast swathes of whats gone before where just fake circumstances to put the characters in a definite mode of action.
I only need one answer though and thats why the Others kidnapped certain folk and children...then I can sleep in piece knowing it wasn't so everybody had a reason to fight each other like int he comic books.
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Thanks for actually tackling my examples, that's a refreshing change of pace! (and I do find that kind of discussion stimulating as well) "Ben couldn't go back to the mainland after the sky went purple because the nutty electromagnetic burst from the hatch messed up thier communications and they couldn't radio for the submarine to come pick him up. The fact that Tom left later displays that the interference obviously wasn't permanent." I'll give you that one: I guess that's a possible scenario (but the cynical me has to wonder why they didn't come out and say so instead of having Tom's explanation cut short like that! suspiciousssss). But it doesn't explain why Ben didn't leave the island before that. After all, he knew about his condition since the beginning of the series, right?
"Doesn't the fact that the open village is surrounded by a sonic fence that keeps people away from it lead to the assumption that maybe Rousseau has never been able to approach the open village because of the sonic fence that keeps people away from it?" But isn't such a fence kinda... suspicious? What's beyond it? Could it be where the Others Rousseau can't seem to find hide? Wouldn't you try and cross it (the Losties did, after all)? Rousseau just appeared _completely clueless_ about the Others' whereabouts, despite that huge "we're here!!" flashing sign. "Rousseau is obviously aware of The Others...they stole her baby and she lived many years in a paranoid panic due to their trapsing and whispering all over the island." Of course, I wasn't saying she wasn't aware of their existence, just that she never managed to find them. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. "When he actually shows up on the island, Ben feels his leadership is being challenged and does everything in his power to undermine Locke and his confidence." And yet, the captive Ben tells Locke that he's one of the "good ones", that he was "coming for [him]"... A bit counter-productive, if we're to believe that the whole thing about Locke being set up as a new leader was actually on the writers' mind at that point in the series (and I think you can guess where I stand on that particular issue)... "And it worked! Locke was a sniveling mess through most of season 3 to the point where Terry O'Quinn even complained about the pussified direction of the character." Not just that: how quickly Locke came to the conclusion that it was all bullocks, that there was no grand mystery, just after seeing the Pearl station. I mean, c'mon, Locke... Aren't you _standing on your feet_? And what about that monster you saw face to face? You forgetful you... -
I prefer to think of my note to you as an appeal to reason, not so much whining. Interpret as you will. Now, to keep down the clutter, I'm not responding to anything else you say unless it is a substantive comment about LOST and not an attempt to find more colorful ways to shit on the talkbackers with whom you disagree.
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"Ultimately the difference between you and I is how much faith we have in the writers." Yes, definitely. And like you said, I have no faith in the writers at that point. But really, I wish they'd given me reasons to have faith in them. I wish they'd given me less reasons to call them hacks. I wish I'd still be optimistic about the series. Honestly. But alas.
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"I only need one answer though and thats why the Others kidnapped certain folk and children...then I can sleep in piece knowing it wasn't so everybody had a reason to fight each other like int he comic books."
I agree. Hopefully with Walt coming back (if he indeed does) that will be answered. -
"Why someone would edit this out and hide it in a Bible - I have no idea. " Thanks for reminding me of that one! Why indeed. That's the kind of thing I call "video game logic". You're not supposed to be wondering who leaves those literal --->HINTSs just shamefully lazy.
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Then fucking stop watching the goddamned show. 5 seasons is a LONG time to hate something so much that you obviously have continued to watch.
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Season 6 starts 2night!!! Who else is pumped!!
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Like I said, you're not supposedto be wondering who leaves those hints there or why. They're just there to advance the plot, and that's it, no matter how contrived the whole thing may be. To quote the infamous words of the Heroes showrunner: "technically, you're not supposed to be thinking about that!" That's the kind of thing that erode any faith I could have in the writers: shamefully lazy writing.
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Interesting!
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WOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Lets go streaking!!!!!
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I'm hoping it doesn't end up having anything to do with CHRISTIAN religiosity. Ya know, heaven, hell, purgatory, etc. The idea of deities from other ancient religions being involved, which would make them "real", is actually quite interesting to me. So thanks to whoever mentioned that possibility. But still, every time I try to reason that into what we've been shown over the previous five seasons I still find the deep involvement of "mere mortals" just doesn't work out for me. Maybe it will turn out that more of the cast than we realize aren't just "mere mortals". And maybe they (the characters on the show playing "mere mortals") don't even realize they're more than that. I could live with that. I too am interested in the many of the mysteries surrounding children on the island and why certain people were kidnapped (like I said, maybe they're "important" and they don't yet realize it). I actually think it's Ben that has been exposed as being weak and insignificant as the series has gone on. That's why he's never been able to "see" Jacob and was so easy to manipulate.
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Where some big shit is going down in the S6 premiere tonight. BOO YAAAAA
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I'm fucking pumped! 7 hours baby! FUCK YEAH!BEER BONG EVERYBODY!
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To drink myself silly and enjoy the premier!
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I think the island WAS out of control at that point, and Locke put it back on course, though perhaps not in the right spot in space-time.
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Dimension X?
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If everyone ignored the dude, he'd probably get bored and shut the hell up. It's like a snotty little brat that teases the other kids. The more they react and get upset, the more the little shit keeps it up. If the kids ignore the brat, he'll just go away.
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see how much more fun this is?
McGooCain: I'll bet the significance of the time-jumps and if anyone was controlling them will be one of the unresolved plot-points. Within the context of Jacob and MIB, it seems reasonable that Jacob had something to do with everybody ending up in 1977 (so they could cause the Incident and create an alternate reality where Jacob doesn't get kilt) but I'll bet the how's of it will be left unexplained.
Olivier: Yes, some may consider it a cheap suspense builder for Tom to be interrupted when talking about the purple light, but it is a mystery show. For some of us, its fun to have little things like that dangled in front of us. As for why Ben never left the island? For the same reason Locke never wanted to leave the island: He felt like the island's custodian and it was the place he truely belonged.
As for Rousseau, she might seem like a bad-ass when she electrocuting people and pointing guns at their heads, but lets not forget: she's insane. That might make her scary when she's backed into a corner, but hardly some master of the island who can discover all its secrets. And if she ever tried to walk through the sonic fence, the Others probably could just scoop up her unconscious body, dumb her in the jungle, and leave her in even paranoidier panic when she woke up. She probaby avoided the fence the same way she hid whenever Smokie came buzzing around.
Concerning Ben & Locke: With the exception of the last half of Season 5 (when we were no longer dealing with the real Locke) Ben was ALWAYS manipulating Locke to some end. He'd coddle him and buddy up to him to win his confidence, then shit on his beliefs to tear him back down. Locke was practically co-dependent by the time Ben shot him the first time. And Ben treated him that way because he was under the belief that Locke might some day be a threat to him. And now that Locke's story has pretty much been told, you realize that he's a total fuck-up of a guy who only seems to function when there's someone telling him how great he is or giving him direction. It didn't surprise me a bit when his self-esteem imploded completely when he thought the button was just a big joke. His death was almost by suicide, for crying out loud! He was the definition of unstable! -
I swear I'll shut the fuck up about it. Really.
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I'm joining in.. of course I only have 4 hours.. beer bongs.. uppers, downers, hot wings, KY Jelly.. SEASON 6 IS NOW!!!
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I think the island was out of control, but I still don't completely fathom how it was put back on course, yet. I do agree that it may not have ended up in the exact right point in space-time, though (man, have I mentioned how much time travel plots blow yet?). That being the case, it's possible that Jacob getting shanked and roasted, and/or Juliet blasting the island may have set it right and/or just plain reset it. Like I said, I think, at this point, that we're supposed to believe some of the islands inhabitants are either super human (or aliens) who have been there for eons (since the time of the ancient Egyptians at least - which would be pre-Christ). That's why Richard, Jacob and "other evil entity" have been around forever without aging. At least that some of the thoughts floating around my feeble brain.
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I think he was unstable, and manipulated by Ben, big time. Goes back to how I think Ben was manipulated by MIB the whole time, and treated Locke like shit. Locke's mind was screwed with, after a lifetime of being screwed with. My hope, is that with this alternate reality, Locke (not Flocke) is redeemed and becomes essential to the resolution of the story. Yes, Locke was dead before, but this time he will land in LA. My hope is that as events unfold, this Locke, who hasn't been tormented by Ben and MIB/Smokie will prove much more effective and stable. I think and hope there is far more to him than just being a complete and total fuck-up from beginning to end.
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I found it interesting that by the end of season five it had been revealed that Ben, Locke and Jack both had major Daddy issues, but it was Locke and Ben that were the easiest to manipulate. It's one of those things I can't really take any further than that. Just something I noticed when re-watching the entire series.
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All had major daddy issues.
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I'm on board with you, Lamerz.. too many cooks in the Locke kitchen to make him the guy that Ben killed.. BTW.. don't you think Ben killed him a little too easily.. couldn't Locke fight back a bit harder?? crip or not, Locke was the same dude that killed boars!! resourceful.. I'm gonna have to go back and watch that killing scene..
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everyone had some form of daddy issues on the show Sun her father was tyrant, Claire never knew her father abandonment issues, Sawyer his father shot himself in the bed above him, Kate killed her step father umm im sure there are more im forgetting
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Looks like I will be busy up until then
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three main characters actually KILLED their fathers: Ben, Kate, Locke
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oh yeah
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Ben killed his father, yes.. but Kate killed her stepfather and Locke didn't kill his father, Sawyer killed him.. Locke took the credit for it, though.
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"he wins by dint of sheer will - he is correct- all others need to bow down to his insights..." C'mon, man, let's be honest, here: you too think you are right. You're not convinced by my arguments, but I'm not convinced by yours either. You won't agree with me just to be nice, and I won't agree with you out of kindness either. Same difference. If that's "psychosis", we're in the same boat.
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in about 4 months we'll have answers.. but like everything there will still be debate.. Like Tony Soprano "dying" at the end of the Sopranos.. which I hope Lost will tie it up alot nicer than the Sopranos.. man that pissed me off..
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Jack, Kate, and Sawyer sit in a diner in LA. An upbeat tune plays on the radio. The three friends smile, knowing the worst is behind them. A shady character at the bar gets up and goes to the bathroom. Locke walks in through the door to the diner, and Jack, Kate and Sawyer all smile and wave at him. As Locke walks to the table, the bathroom door opens, a black cloud comes out moving quickly at the camera, into a fade to black and complete silence.
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1. Rose and Bernard are Adam and Eve (popular theory)
2. The Man in Black/Evil Locke = Smoke Monster. I believe Jacob can take a similar form as the smoke monster. Locke told Eko he saw a "bright light" I believe this was Jacob.
3. Kate is pregnant with Jack's kid as a result of them sleeping together prior to Ajira flight 3:16. She will have the baby on the island, it will be the first healthy child born on island of a woman in her first trimester through birth.
4. "What lies in the shadow of the Statue" - has something to do with the real Locke's body.
Evidence: The real Locke's body is lying in the shadow of the statue. In a suit. Walt told John he has dreams of John back in the island wearing a suit. People are all around him and they want to hurt him. I believe we will see this. Either Jacob uses John's body or the real John comes back. The whole irony is we are to believe we have been conned. Locke is not special. No one can come back to life. Until the real Locke does what no one else ever has and comes back. Thus being the most special of all. I think real Locke will come back. Jacob dying was part of his own "loophole", he has faith in humanity to save it's self.
5. Here is my complicated theory for how I think they will tell the story in season 6...
we know that a bunch of dead people are reappearing and there's been hints that jack's plan worked and oceanic will not crash. Based off that I propose this...
The flashbacks we see in season 6 are going to be presented as an alternate universe or a "what if." I propose the flashbacks in season 6 are actually the real universe, the flight never actually crashed. Everything we saw in seasons 1-5 are actually the alternate universe due to Jacob touching specific survivors. Why did Jacob alter people's lives? Because we will see that something bad happened in the real universe/season 6 and that is why Jacob had to go back and change people's lives. Perhaps the end of humanity/world? Like he told the man in black "It only ends once, everything else is just progress." This change of fate caused by Jacob is the progress to delay the end of the world/humanity. Faraday was right, sort of… we can change things, we are the variables. Just not all of us. The people that can change things are those that Jacob touched, they are the variables to the equation that Dharma came up with which will be the date of the end of the world... 4 8 15 16 23 42 The survivors of oceanic 815 are special because they are the final pieces to this very long game. Everyone that Jacob has allowed to come to the island has come for a purpose. Army = bomb, Dharma = hatches/swan, Egyptians = statue, etc. All of these things played a part in progress toward the final stages of the game.
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Kate thought she was killing her step-father...after the deed was done, she discovered he was her REAL father. As for Locke: if you threw someone into a room with hungry lion then locked the door, you would be convicted of their murder. Locke locking Cooper up in a room on the Black Rock with Sawyer wasn't much different.
As for Locke's manufactured importance: Locke being miraculously healed could possibly be attributed to MIB, his first meeting with the Smoke Monster (which gave him a huge charge of confidence) was definitely because of MIB; the person who told him he had to die to bring the others back to the island was MIB in the guise of Christian; and MIB assuming the guise of Locke made Locke seem literally like the second-coming of something! All of that led to Ben and Richard begrudgingly doing things they weren't comfortable with because he was suddenly so seemingly awesome they were kind of scared of him. It gets kind of messy when you ponder whether or not he was purposefully sent to those specific time periods to meet certain people, but Locke is/was a total schlub, and MIB made sure that everyone changed their opinion of him. -
Fine points. I hadn't taken the daddy issues that far. Interesting.
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...i've got a rehearsal to get to...no more talkbacks for me today. Remember: Keep it civil! The conversation is far more satisfying that way!
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I love the end of that show. I love that it's ambiguous and leaves wanting to know more. I love the fact that they could even continue the story if they wanted to. I may be in the minority, but after the original surprise of the ending wore off, I really like it.
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....Christianity. That will piss me off. Razza frazza double posts.
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That seems important now in a way, because, we've all been posturing MiB and Jacob to be gods/deities/beings of influence. However, if that sentence still holds any weight or comes back to mean something, it would imply Jacob is not a god, but something else, whom god loved very much. Just remembered seeing that slide in Room 23, and thought it interesting knowing what we know now and in regards to the theories we've been throwing around. Who knows though, maybe it'll never come back and end up being another red herring. Either way, loved the first time we saw that, with Karl in the crazy space glasses.
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Did anybody in here play the Lost video game or any of the online game stuff (ARP or whatever the hell they call it)? How much of that story content still applies? How much of it contradicts canon as of tonight's premiere of S6? Curious...
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Perhaps "...as god LOVED Jacob." Maybe Jacob killed god. He was favored, loved, took advantage, killed god, and became something more in the process. Maybe he became the man in charge, and thats why esau hates him so much? Just spitballin here, probably nothing. Just thought the past tense of "loved jacob" rang unique.
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The mutant invasion begins!
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I played Lost: Via Domus (the video game) and as I understand it, its non-canon, bceause it was retarded. Basically, it was the story of a guy who was on 815, but never featured on the show (a red shirt basically) who made mistakes, like everyone, in their past, and you play through his flashbacks, and then on the island, and he, somehow, at the end of the game, restarts his own timeline and wakes up on the beach right after the crash again...but he changed his past. A girl that he sold out and got killed was alive again, if I remmeber correctly. basically, it was a crap game and made no sense and means nothing. i try to pretend i never played it as much as possible. As far as the ARGs....I never really got too invovled in those, but I understand overall those are considered canon.
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Both interesting points. Be interesting to see where they go this season for sure. Run_Runner_Run My interaction with Lost has been wholly and completely based around the TV show. I purposely avoided getting sucked into any of the peripheral stuff (which may explain my pov on everything else I've posted).
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Seemed like most of it had little to do with the events in the series.
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that they'd end the series on a cliffhanger, and then finish the story with a feature film. Though momentum for that probably faded a few years ago.
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...what's gone on with the show. Kinda odd, actually.
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Ya, I heard it sucked balls. I was just thinking about how in the early days of the show the ARG was the closest thing to getting any answers as I think the first 2 seasons only piled on the questions. I was curious if that info also had loose ends or doublebacked or straight-up contradicted what has occured in subsequent seasons. I have never played a game based on a show or movie that was worth a damn.
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A phrase that lazy writers overuse, I'm looking at you Stephen King (especially last Dark Tower books)
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If so, that means you japanese folks who aren't sleeping need to come clean and tell us what happened. Same with you UK and Aussie blokes!
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it only makes sense for the show.
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And we already know what happens in the first hour because it was shown to people in Hawaii. I don't want to know what happens in the second hour until I'm watching it. I won't even be hear from the time it start airing on the East coast until after it's done on the West.
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The Ultimate Long Con.
Thematic. Fucking. Brilliance. -
I may be remembering wrong, but I believe Ben had just received his medical diagnosis shortly before the 815 crash. The tumor was a shock obviously, as Ben knew the island to heal. Ben fears he is out of favor with the island. Then the plane crashes and a gifted surgeon, a rare individual that can save Ben is delivered to him. Clearly the island wanted the two together (at least in Ben's mind).
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I may be remembering wrong, but I believe Ben had just received his medical diagnosis shortly before the 815 crash. The tumor was a shock obviously, as Ben knew the island to heal. Ben fears he is out of favor with the island. Then the plane crashes and a gifted surgeon, a rare individual that can save Ben is delivered to him. Clearly the island wanted the two together (at least in Ben's mind).
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it's about immediate gratification vs delayed gratification. Sometimes things are better if you ride the peaks and valleys instead of just cutting right to the big spill. Maybe you aren't a fan of King, but what would Stand By Me be without its "journey"? it's not about the dead kid, it's about what happens between the kids on the way to see him.
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Manipulation played a big part of Locke in the 1st season and was constantly turning people on each other, guessing bcz they didnt know how long the series would last. Maybe John can walk not bcz the island healed him but bcz he has been the Man in Black the entire time. He survived its encounters bcz either him or Jacob takes its form.
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...is like comparing a pile of gold to a pile of shit. One of them is great, one of them is not. I love King. I have every damn thing the guy has written. The last three Dark Tower books are one of the biggest disappoints of my life (seriously). A complete metaphysical wishy-washy let down.
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o.k.. I get it about Kate, sorry I don't remember every particular.. but Sawyer killed him physically.. Locke couldn't do it.. but I don't think who killed whose daddy has nothing to do with it..
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anyone think that the "others" are going to cure him at the temple like they did Ben??
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I don't know. I've heard this theory before, but my biggest problem with it is watching the stuff Locke does in those early seasons. He's so uninformed about the Island. The pounding on the Hatch. I guess one could argue he was "staying in character", but why stay so "obsessed" with the Hatch if you already know so much mroe about the Island as the MiB presumably would.
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Soooo glad to be back! Had to post on the first Lost board! Everyone to positions...
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Is ABC showing 6.1 and 6.2 tonight? Two hour premiere? How can I not know this?
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It's really Lost Day! It's really here!!! Oh, let the hallowed halls of the internet sound with the joy in my voice when I say that LOST IS BAAAAAAAACK!
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I think that is where he thought Jacob was, EXCEPT he was gonna use Boone as his pawn to kill Jacob
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6.1 and 6.2. Plus a one-hour recap at 8:00.
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...guys? Think back over the course of the series. Now I'm not sure that the Jacob/MIB = Locke/Jack analogy is correct, but there are certainly hints that it may be. But if it is... Locke has been (when he was Locke) almost exclusively nurturing to others (sorry about the head, Sayid), has repeatedly insisted that others discover or choose their own path (while trying to convince, it is true), and possessed of an almost childlike sense of wonder about the island and its mysteries. Jack has attempted to assert his will on everyone, has consistently refused the counsel of others, has rendered moralistic judgments on, at one time or another, most of the people on the island and has almost always placed his desires above those of anyone else. So my question is, if Jacob and MIB do equal Locke and Jack, why would you ever think that Jack equals Jacob? By the way, not a rhetorical question. Since it seems many of you do I'd love to hear why.
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The man in Black never really knew Jacob was in the foot. I agree there are some inconsistent things in the following seasons. But rewatching season 1 gives you more insight, the writers gave more info not knowing how long this ride would last.
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I didn't know it was a 2 hour premier!
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Glad to have this back again. I can't wait for tonight!
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...given the almost diametrically opposed character traits of the two and the fact that Jack is sometimes used as a diminutive for John, and given the seeming relationship between Jacob and MIB...well, it would certainly be a surprise, wouldn't it?
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Your thought process on that is right on, about Locke being the man inclined towards free will, while Jack, obviously, is the man makes choices for people, believing he knows better. Interesting stuff. Though I never really took much stock in the Locke/Jack replacing/being connected to Jacob/MiB, you're theory makes it the most convincing I've seen. There really are parallels there. It makes me believe that perhaps we will be forced to re-think our status of Jack as "our hero" by the end of the season. Which would be amazing.
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"I'M not even sure what my argument is...other than my pompous pronouncement of an informed opinion that I consider Lost the best written TV show ever" Now that's just downright ludicrous. "I have explained at length and in detail previously why I have this opinion...which I really feel no need to be right about" Clearly.
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...I'm not sold on the analogy either but Jack as Jacob just doesn't seem to make sense on a whole lot of levels, so if there is such a thing it just occurred to me (and I do mean just) that it would have to go the other way. Anyway, I have been commanded to let the computer be now. The countdown's started!
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So fucking excited.... I need a drink.
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They will play the first half this year and the rest next year...and piss off everyone.
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And I feel terrible for anyone who lives West. Knowing that we, especially when considering lost, exist in the future, and get to see it before you... I'd go nuts. I literally can't fucking wait any longer. I'm sitting here anticipating the fucking RECAP EPISODE.
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Ditto on the anticipation. I'm almost worried I'm anticipating this so much...
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That was a fantastic episode!!!!!!!!!!
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There should not be freedom of expression on the internet unless you have the balls to actually post your real name, address, phone number, and wife's tit size. That ought to shut the fucking no-nothings up. Fuck you trolls. I said, fuck....you. And shut the fuck up.
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that makes 9:00 est the real deal correct?
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Do you hear me?! You. LOST. You hear me? Look at me. Look at me you LOST prick, you. You better be good. You better be good or else. Or else what? Look at me. Don't fuck it up. Be good. Be good, you.
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Even the snow can't stop my car from getting home by 9!
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MOTHERFUCKING 4 hours to go until the real deal starts. I'm gonna fucking go berserk. Well, not really, just very impatient right now.
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WAHHH! Just kidding. I'm still on Season 3 DVD rewatch. I barely rememeber what happened last season (Yay for recap ep!)
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So you must fucking loathe The Simpsons. Cuz, I just watched an episode and there was a poster on the wall of Homer screaming. But, it's not there in any other epiode. See I been reading this entire TB(which took a long fucking time) and as much as I wish I didn't want to, I want to respond to you. You see I keep waiting for you to offer up the masterwork, You, yourself have created, that rivals, not only LOST, but everything you claim to admire.
I am a comedy writer and 99.9% of the time, to people like you, who don't appreciate what we spend the better part of our life doing, TRYING TO FUCKING ENTERTAIN YOU, fuck you. I don't give a shit if you don't like it. But, that 1%, you,sir, in your do nothing-talk-shit existence, contribute to so much great art from ever being seen. 'Cause it's fucking tough to stand up and say "I have a good idea." But, it is sooooooooooooooooo fucking easy to do nothing but say, "that idea's stupid." So, from all us artists and creators, Fuck You very much. And, Enjoy LOST tonight, it should be awesome. -
hmmpf...looks a lot like Desmondo in attire, too.
Just sayin..."I lied to you because I needed a sucker to save the world after I left! ..."
@Roland Taverner ...Not Locke and Jack on the beach....Sawyer and Jack. half-brothers. One light. one dark. (Think of Colonel Munro's daughter's....) Feature James and Jack. Them, whose names are both forms of Jacob btw, replaying the opening of Jacob and MiB from 'the Incident'
Kate gets no one! Nichts! nada! Nahzzing! Cause she is in the Cave with John..decomposing.
Black is White. Yin is Yang. Hot is Cold. John is Kate. -
Now it's all about the Lost goodness that's about to begin (well, in a few fucking hours for me). TV greatness is coming!!!
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thrown off at the times? What the frig, I thought for sure I read the premiere as 8-10. Broke speed limits getting home for nothing. Ah well.
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Yeah, I do remember something among those lines, indeed. "I needed a surgeon, and just look at what just crashed on my island!" But the fact remains that when Jack asks Tom, Tom's reply isn't that Ben didn't want to leave, but rather that he couldn't because something something purple sky something. That scene is so fucking weird. The writers could have just thought of that possible plot hole and simply hoped that nobody would notice, but nooooo: they actually went out and addressed it, just to leave the viewers with an incomplete sentence! "If we just tell them that yes, there _is_ an explanation, maybe they won't mind if we don't actually tell them what it is?!" Whaah? Seriously?? Baffling. But then again, I'm regularly baffled by the writers' interviews. They just seem so fucking clueless about their own job ("24 sure fucked up when they introduced that new cougar character and we never saw it again!" ... excuse me, WHAT?! what the...?!), the mind boggles...
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The whole "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" thing......could the real answer to that riddle actually be John Locke? I believe we were led to think it was in reference to Jacob ("He who will save us all"). However, it was Locke's body that was literally lying in the shadow of the statue.Hmmm. Am I onto anything here? Curious.
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C,mon man. Let me see your shoe.
Cause as far as you just stuck your foot up Olivier Hag's ass you must have lost it.
That was all right now..I do mean to say. -
Are we sure it's supposed to be a person? Sounds sort of riddlish - When is a door not a door?
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Quote: "When is a door not a door?"Ummm...when no one walks through it?
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When its Ajar!
No, but seriously NiceGaius, its a fair theory, but theres no way to know. And if Richard said it in Latin, it seems to me it would be a lot older of a saying than John Locke's existence. Not to mention Locke seems to be at the buttend of a massive cosmic joke at this point...so I'm leaning towards no. But who knows. I could be eating crow by the end of tonight for all I know. -
ids no weed, mon.... its Whiskey, Sexy, Freedom! As you say, babe. Cans and Booty. Booty and Cans....
"Oh boy is this gonna be great..." said Flounder. I just hope, at the end, I am not left standing there, staring at a wreck ..with Darlton as Otter...saying "heh, ya fucked up..ya trusted us!" And if that is so.. mother flippin JJ Abrams himself better be hoppin to and fro smashing Whiskey bottles over his head to cheer me up.
...I'm goin Dark! -
Just shut the fuck up already, douche. You're really starting to piss me off. Several people, myself included, have pointed out where and how you're wrong and you ignore us. Choosing instead to continue to troll in hopes of starting another pointless argument. Shut the fuck up and go away. Please.
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Hah! Dadumdumchhhhh!
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"So you must fucking loathe The Simpsons." The fact you thought even for a second that you were making a good point there amuses me to no end... Why, yes, NATURALLY, considering everything I've said so far, I "must fucking loathe the Simpsons"! Brilliant. Blinding logic, there. You can be proud of yourself, man, 'cause it does take a special kind of talent to express just how much you utterly missed the point (supposing you even bothered to read past "I don't like Lost", naturally) in such a short sentence. Comedy writer, indeed!
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"Several people, myself included, have pointed out where and how you're wrong and you ignore us." And here I thought the problem was that I kept replying. And naturally, thanks for the "douche", you can't imagine how well that kind of gratuitous name-calling reflects on you. (seriously: I doubt you can)
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Fair enough. There are just so many red herrings that I have to wonder if the significance of certain things is more obvious or literal than they appear."When it's ajar." -- Nice! Can't believe I forgot that ol' joke.
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hours, two for the actual show to air and then for it to be torrented. Christ, know I know how Cartman felt waiting for the Wii
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You're a pointless waste of bandwidth and nothing you say has any meaning to me. Shut the fuck up and go away. Douche.
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So the epic masterwork was called, what? I guess I missed it in all your incoherent rambling. Please let me know, I'm dying to read/watch it.
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"nothing you say has any meaning to me." Tell me something I don't know.
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Thank you, that is all.
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"So the epic masterwork was called, what?" Ah, yes, because you can't tell of a TV series is well-written unless you're a writer yourself. Just like you can't argue that some food is atrocious unless you're a chef, and so on. And by the same standards, are Lost fans even allowed to say something positive about the show? Damn vagrants never wrote a fucking episode in their whole life, for all we know! I mean, come on, man. Don't be dense.
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So is that the title? Pretty long. Should I youtube it, or......
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OK. First, you don't seem to be aware that you're total douche. Second, you have the mental acumen of a fourth grader on the short bus. Third, you've completely ignored both myself and theotherjosh in our attempts to tell you that you have no point. Instead choosing to continue to repeat yourself ad nauseum. Fourth, you haven't made a single original point since your first post in this thread and you've totally ignored each and every response by telling everybody how they're wrong, the writing are wrong, the creators are wrong and you're right. So, lets see, fifth, you appear to have the reading comprehension skills of a tree stump. Anything else you wanted to know? No. OK. Then shut the fuck up and go away. You have nothing else to say here, douche.
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Yes, yes. Brilliant point. Thank you, sir.
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"So is that the title? Pretty long." Oh, the wit! Comedy writer, you sure are a riot.
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...douche.
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And, yes. Unless you're a chef, you may not talk about the intricacies of food. Are you allowed to simply say," I don't like it." Hell, yeah. But you take the next step by taking umbrage with the execution, which you yourself, can't do. And, fuck you, for thinking you could do it better. You wanna give your opinion as an arm-chair quarterback, fine. But, that opinion it one fucking sentence long. " I don't like LOST." After that, SHUT THE FUCK UP. Unless, you have the title of the masterpiece that rivals LOST. Then I'm all ears.
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of THE PRISONER where they EXPLAINED everything?That was AWESOME!
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"First, you don't seem to be aware that you're total douche. Second, you have the mental acumen of a fourth grader on the short bus." I appreciate the sheer diversity of your "arguments". "you haven't made a single original point since your first post in this thread and you've totally ignored each and every response by telling everybody how they're wrong, the writing are wrong, the creators are wrong and you're right." Considering I know damn well that's simply not true, who are you talking to, here? (yes, I skipped your third point, because you repeated it anyway in your fourth one... now that's just sloppy) "fifth, you appear to have the reading comprehension skills of a tree stump." They're more than enough for me to tell that you really had three points: 1) insults, 2) bad faith, 3) more insults. Not so great, man. Not so great.
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I think she probably got a DUI in Hawaii a few years back. No wonder she is so pissed off about LOST. Just leave her alone guys, seriously.
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LESS THAN 10 MINUTES, I AM STRAPPING IN HERE COMES THE DIP, WHOOOAOOAAA
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of TWIN PEAKS where all our questions were ANSWERED?That was AWESOME!
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Surely you don't need me to tell you that the Prisoner was more of an allegory, and as such an entirely different animal?
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Considering damn well you know WHAT isn't true? You have told every single person who has responded to you that they're wrong. You've repeatedly posted how about the writers are complete idiots and don't know what they're doing. You've repeatedly posted your same exact opinion over nad over and over! I even partially agreed with you at one point, but expressed how I thought your were off base in your supposed "facts"; you chose to ignore that post. So what are you trying to prove? That you're a giant douche? Success!!! You are!! Also, you're a ridiculously short-sighted, stubborn twit. And a completely transparent, evidently sadomasochistic, troll. I'm not sure if you REALLY don't get it, or if you're just being a complete asstard on purpose. Either way, as previous mentioned, you're a waste of bandwidth. Buh bye now, stinky douche.
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...enjoy the show. I'ma cut out until it's over on the West Coast. Don't want to catch any spoilers accidentally.
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As for Twin Peaks, I believe I already mentioned the Lynch approach earlier in this talkback, but something tells me you're not really interested in what I could have said other than the fact that I don't like Lost and how that apparently makes me a cool target... As long as you're having fun, I guess?
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in the book on Desmond.
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So it's called.....
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They never disappoint with the season cold opens!
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Feb 02, 2010 8:07:51 PM CST
Every instances of that BIG-FOOT STATUE creeps me out!!!
by hollywoodhellraiser
YIKES!!!
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Richard Alpert says,"Hi!"
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under water??
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"Considering damn well you know WHAT isn't true?" Well, yeah. Maybe I was a bit quick in calling that "bad faith" and you just managed to miss those messages where I was discussing some plot points and storytelling views with others? Then again, we weren't constantly insulting each other, so maybe you just got bored and skipped that shit. How shocking would that be.
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WTF?!
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This whole season is just an origin story for Locke-quaman.
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underwater? That is so cool!
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fishbowl; year after year.
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Part of me comes back to that theory that maybe the island is an entity like VALIS, has been on Earth for a very long time, and Jacob and MIB are creations of this entity, like sophisticated computer programes, that are created to run simulations/game on humans from a testing purpose.
Why are we being tested, the kind of crazy theory there is that to see if we are ready to meet the creators of VALIS (yes aliens) or maybe the testing is just for the sake of testing, to understand and learn, to see "evolution" of sorts like scientists. -
Looks like so did Jacob.
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"So it's called....." Repetition comedy? This shit could get old very fast, you know? Again, your "you can't criticize shit unless you're a writer yourself!" theory is fucking dumb. Sorry to break it to you. But hey, feel free to call, say, Ebert out on that, huh? I'm sure he'd find you hilarious, comedy writerrrrr.
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in the parallel universe were the plane doesn't crash
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Everyone will be. Ian Somerhalder is back, everyone is. Gonna be sweet.
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Please yes.
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right!
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quit bumming Hurley out.
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I better get used to my brain just blowing out the back of my head before every commercial break, apparently.
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so confused but loving it
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Even in an alternate universe how does this happen? Not that it's a bad thing, Desmond's the best brotha
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Sorry but it looked kinda goofy...
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is piloting the "Alternate" plane like he was supposed to originally.
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There's no way an officer transporting a prisoner like Kate would allow her to use the bathroom on a plane by herself. Just a note.
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Jacob's rug? I'm getting a Weaveworld vibe.
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for becoming the Ultimate Pawn. Thought he was *so* Bobby Fisher...
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and thinking it was some lame "Survivor" drama. I was WAY off.
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Hey Dude! You're dead.
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You big tweaker.
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Thoughts: remember how desmond had to keep saving charlie from death?
Questionable: hurley's the luckiest man ever on the alternate flight?
Why's it dark on the island? Are the incident folk and the anti0locke/alpert people on the same island, relatively speaking? Why was the alternate island underwater?
What an insane insane insane season premiere. -
OMG old characters! yawn
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Wouldn't these two have recognized each other from the stadium? even in the alternate timeline.
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Jesus Christ
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Feb 02, 2010 8:43:00 PM CST
Shit Charlie is a fuckin' mule! Guess he has more...
by hollywoodhellraiser
up his arse!
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...am i confused? Locke talking to the brother who died with his sister on the island after the crash. Original plane crash was heading towards Australia. So that explains alternate reality where Desmond gets on the plane.
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by Desmond but I can believe he can't remember a guy he saw while jogging one day.
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yes, which is why Jack said, "Don't I know you?"
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Feb 02, 2010 8:44:10 PM CST
Ok Juliet moves her head quite well for someone...
by hollywoodhellraiser
being bury by all that shit! Maybe they should have let her died!
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make it so!and yea, that opening cgi sequence was kinda crap, I was waiting to see the Snorks pop up
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thank you.
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Damn, this shit making me piss my pants!!!
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Awesome!
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if you learn one thing from Lost, don't fuck with the smoke monster!
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dont fuck around
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smoke monster's pimp hand
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good shit
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but do all those also equal christian shepherd? and brokenheath, original plane was out of sydney too. i had to double check but now i remember walt looking out the window at the opera house the morning before they got on the plane and watching power rangers real loud, etc.
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The plane was always heading to LAX....
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...at your silly circle of sand. Ha. Ha.
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memories? Desmond disappearing at that precise moment was convient. This is a "Constant" thing, isn't it?
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Guess the quota is still establish!
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Did he lie to Boone? Or was he really allowed to go on the walkabaout in this parallel universe? Fucking AWESOME so far!
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Alot of the unsolved mysteries you (and some other LOST Haters) are griping about are not that mysterious if you've been paying attention. Some of them are pretty easy to figure out, or at least infer reasonable explanations for.You gripe about The Others wearing "fake beards" and acting like scary jungle people carrying torches and then turning out to be normal people living in modern houses in their own part of the island. Isn't it obvious they were trying to scare the people from the plane to keep them from roaming the Island and discovering its secrets? BOOGA BOOGA! Once they had Jack, Kate and Sawyer and Michael and Walt left and they warned Hurley to leave them alone, there was no longer a need to maintain that ruse for the people they'd captured. When Sayid and Locke saw how The Others actually lived it was one of the more amusing plot twists in my opinion.Another thing people keep whining about is the Dharma Food Drop. If Ben and The Others killed off the Dharma people: why was food still being dropped? Who was dropping it? Blah Blah Blah. These geniuses seem to have forgotten one very important character and one very simple explanation. DESMOND. He was still in the hatch pushing the button. He was still going out in his Hazmat suit to pick up the food drops. The food was for Desmond.So who sent it? Well if Ben Linus has access to all the resources we've seen him have access to, including letting Richard Alpert and Tom come and go from the island, how fucking hard or expensive would it be to put some fake generic Dharma labels on some food and hire a plane to drop it on the Island to maintain the illusion for Desmond that the project was still ongoing so he would keep pushing the button? Somebody had to do it. Ben knew about the hatch and the button. The Others were keeping tabs on Desmond. Am I the only one who figured that out without any help?Sometimes the most obvious answers are the ones people can't seem to see for themselves.
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Will she be back on the show?
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for an episode when this goes into syndication.
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or what? was expecting him to walk, but i guess not everything is that different, only some changes like hurley being lucky instead of cursed, etc.
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"He says we have to go to the temple to save Sayid" "Uh, well OK" There are eighty scenes like this every year for the past three years. WHAT THE FUCK? THIS IS SHEER PLOT DRIVEN WRITING, IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR REAL PEOPLE
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Feb 02, 2010 9:05:54 PM CST
Will both Juliet and Sayid be brought back to life in temple?
by brokenheath
We can only hope.
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I was positive that was going to be the WTF moment at the end of hour 1. But no.
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He's trying to reset the talkback.
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Airlines and the thier luggage, am I right?
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with airlines losing coffins? i mean come on.
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hate fuck Jack anymore because Juliet was the one who set off the bomb? Boo.
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you would think the final fucking season would pick up the pace
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In THAT universe anyway.
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According to what Boone was saying to Locke: He went to help his sister and she didn't want to be helped.Shannen never got on the plane.
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the temple is an actual living place. mind blown.
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EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! Just ask Jaaaack.
This is so tiresome. Everybody does things on "feelings" and "so and so mystical being told me to, no time to explain everybody just follow me" and the others just GO WITH IT. WHY????? -
Yeah, I hate it when story actually drives a tv show. Come on! What would you rather have driving a story?
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I kinda agree. After the first overall mindfuck of there being two parallel timelines, its been kinda...flat.
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sometimes people get so used to the weird shit it doesn't seem weird anymore.
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to protect the temple.
I'm quite sure all the people in the island alternate reality are all synced up now - hurley, jack, et al at the temple and sun, lapidus, etc at the statue, all in 2007. -
and "plot driven writing". When characters do something that goes against all human or realistic logic as established for them in order to move plot, that is plot driven. That's what happens on this show ALL. THE. TIME. "Just trust me, we have to get to Place X to do Thing Y for Person Z none of whom you have ever heard of." "Okay, Mysterious Soothsayer, if you say so, no explanation necessary, let's go guys." And then they get there and the cycle repeats again. Plot driven writing is bullshit and any professional will tell you that.
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Feb 02, 2010 9:19:06 PM CST
IMHO, it's far too late to be introducing a new "temple"...
by mr. nice gaius
...at this point in the game. Much like the far too late introduction of Jacob, it just reeks of the "plot driven writing" that reflecto is fuming about.I can almost hear the writers saying to themselves, "Well, we got the mystery this far. How do we resolve all this at this late stage in the game? Oh, I know. How about we just introduce this new mysterious temple?"
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Nobody on this show ever comes out, throws up their hands and is like, "whatever, let's just do it." They act like it's all normal. Like, oh, look, an ancient temple, no problem.
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...are Alpert's buddies?
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Feb 02, 2010 9:22:02 PM CST
Temples and Islands do go together in fantasy series!!!
by hollywoodhellraiser
So its not far-fetch!
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all along. I think they made that up last year and are trying to knit it all together at the last minute. "Oh yeah, uh, this guy is the smoke monster too."
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Where's Swidgin?
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Sol Star from muthafuckin' DEADWOOD!
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Why did they make us lose Juliet again? it was hard enough the first time!
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Love that dude. After Jeremy Davies bit the dust (for now...), we needed another awesome twitchy character actor. I was actually hoping he would show up, great to have him.
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This is the temple mentioned in season 2-3 that the stewardess and children were taken to. We've just never seen it till now. You people need to relax. answers are starting to come.
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_Thank you!_ Yes, it's seriously annoying how the characters are all remote-controlled by the script. "We need to get caught by the Others for the beginning of season 3! OK, let's follow Michael right into the trap despite the fact we know damn it _is_ a trap!" "We've exhausted the potential of the Swan station, so it needs to explode! Let's say simply seeing the Pearl station completely fucked Locke up and Desmond is too fucking drunk to remember how things went the last time he was too late for the button!" Urgh!
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Are the 2 parallel universes somehow gonna collide to set everything right? This is getting good.
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Not Being Answered. And then You complain about "Plot Driven Writing". Those Questions aren't going to Answer Themselves. The Characters sure as hell aren't going to have a Dr. House epiphany in the last 5 minutes. The Plot is the only thing holding them together. Quit your Bitching.
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What we have seen prior to this has been the wall, where the Smoke was.
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stop watching.
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gave Sawyer and viewers some closure, plus she had a bit of plot driving info.
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Just a shit-load of new guys.:^)
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are saying but I'm not against a little plot driving if it's going to get your characters to do what needs to be done. There has to be a balance and so far, I don't find it completely off the rails. Then again, I watched Dollhouse.
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Shit, Jin up a shit creek! LOL
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Grrr... No T.V. only internet. Is ABC going to air this online tonight?
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creeping closer and closer to the can...
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a soft boiled egg. Good thing they flipped the timer.
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The talkback seems to be filled with people fed up with the inconsistencies of this show and the realization they have struggled to suppress that all will not be answered. The Emperor truly has no clothes now! You're all waking up to the fact that this show is not as perfect as you dreamed it to be. Not that it's not an interesting show, but damn frustrating. Makes Twin Peaks seem downright lucid.
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Don't worry!Guess Hurley still a loser!
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water brown bc jacob is dead?
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they just held him under water...
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I really don't know why I keep coming back. I gave up after season 1, then watched seasons 2 and 3 on DVD...haven't watched it since, and watching it now, it leaves me shaking my head in frustration.
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weave-rug. And Jack should have checked his gunshot wound first before he started CPR. Instead of water from the grail, Japanese!Indy had to soft boil him for a reason, right?
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Waaah! 5 Years of LOST Questions not answered in first 5 minutes! Waaah! 24 not moving fast enough this season! Waaah! Avatar fucked my eyeballs but didn't kiss me! Waaah!
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I never liked this show but I gave it a shot.
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they won't get any very satisfying answers. Lindelof and Cuse have already set that up by claiming the immediate reaction won't count, only "the legacy reaction," also known as "the reaction we will have to our paychecks long after you motherfuckers have had twelve months to soak up your disappointment."
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Feb 02, 2010 9:41:20 PM CST
I would tripped if Sayid explodes on Art and terminate his ass!
by hollywoodhellraiser
LOL!!!
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just my opinion but what you are describing actually makes this show INTERESTING. But I guess some people want their dramas laid out in full.
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got closer to the FAN. It would have hit it. Then maybe Sayid would have lived. That's why the water was the wrong color. They drowned Sayid in a giant toilet. Okay, I have no idea what's going on. None at all.
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Feb 02, 2010 9:42:13 PM CST
did she just waltz through a door that required a swipe card?
by obi_juan
Seemed like it.
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That dude is a certified bad ass.
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If we find out, somewhere that the "Cerberus" system was NOT the Smoke Monster..or somehow Dharma had made a deal with the Smoke Monster and that's what the Blast Door spoke of as Cerberus I will believe the Man in Black was there all along. If not....The Man in Black or the Man in Black as the Smoke Monster was a recent development. Though I do remember Clare's dream, her nightmare, where Locke's two sides were represented by his eyes being covered by a white and a black Backgammon piece. Which one could argue presages The Man In Black's using of Locke's Body.
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This just keeps getting better and better!
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then get the HELL out of the oven! This show pwns... and pt.2 has yet to disappoint!
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"Isn't it obvious they were trying to scare the people from the plane to keep them from roaming the Island and discovering its secrets? BOOGA BOOGA!" With fake beards and rags? Seriously?? Should we consider ourselves lucky they didn't dress as scary clowns? Remember how Michael pretended they were indeed just a bunch a savages _so the Losties could totally take them_? 'Turned out they were more of a menace precisely because they were well-equipped, on the contrary. "Another thing people keep whining about is the Dharma Food Drop." Supposedly, they'll answer that one in the last season. 'Not sure how they intend to do that... "The food was for Desmond." But where did it come from? Isn't the island supposed to be fucking hard to locate and get to? It sure seemed hard enough for Widmore (again, despite the fact he had the address of Hawking's Dharma station on his desk... dear lord...). "Ben knew about the hatch and the button. The Others were keeping tabs on Desmond." But then again, Ben also tried to discourage Locke from pushing that very button... And we saw the Other's boats, sub and such, but never a plane. If they were indeed the ones using it, we certainly never saw or heard anything about it from them...
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how the show has now become two different types of serialized shows.
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Heh.
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Not!Locke is badass!
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Feb 02, 2010 9:48:32 PM CST
I agree Buffywrestling! I'm enjoying both stories!
by hollywoodhellraiser
nuff said!
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Where's Sam & Dean?
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it's a prison island for smokey?!?
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Colonel Kurtz
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Damn I'm gonna miss this when it ends.
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Smokie wants to go home!!! Somebody cue up a flashback to Walt's comic book from Season 1.Yeah, you know what I'm talking about!
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does a huge mass of black smoke capable of shape shifting and becoming dead humans who's stuck in an endless battle with another...entity...call home?
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outerspace? anyone? anyone? Bueller?
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Love how the writers are giving us just enough to taste but holding back even more.
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The show is interesting but it's all over the place. Therefore, it's hardly "pwning"...despite our desires that it do so.
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had ever been referenced before last year.
Cue the frantic cataloguing of vague lines that could mean anything from the past 5 years to "prove" this was "planned all along." -
Feb 02, 2010 9:52:40 PM CST
Walt will be mad once he finds out that Locke is dead!
by hollywoodhellraiser
We need to see Walt powers unleashed!
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if smoaky is VALIS, this shit is gonna get REAL weird
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He's totally hate fucking Jack with his eyes, man. Yowza.
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In Sayid? Sorta like Smokey the MiB assumed John Locke's identity?
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I'm just anxious as HELL! Where i'm at torrents won't work. Hard to wait. I guess I could just read this talkback carefully and figure out whats happening.
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These episodes are kicking ass. Already we know:
1)"It worked" (the attempt at reboot) according to juliet
2)the source of Alpert (and the others) eternal youth
3) cerberus (mib) has been trapped by jacob and wants out
4) where the stewardess and kids went
5) the "rebooted" parallel reality is actually worse than being on the island
6) The two groups on the island are now in the same time frame
7)the plot of the last season will consist of the two alternate realities attempting to sync up into a perfect whole; and cerberus/mib attempting to "get home" -
Was Richard his pet slave or something? Is this a battling Phaorohs thing?
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looking better than ever.
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the Black Rock was a slave ship was it not?
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I must have missed that.
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"What happened?"
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I have a feeling that the real locke isn't gone for good. OHHH Sayid is ALIVE!
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Nite, nite, talkbackers. Have a good Lost premiere!
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The Characters sure seem to be stopping to have conversations and ask each other questions tonight.AS USUAL.That brief scene with Sawyer and Kate was a perfect example. Where are we? What happened? That's all he needs to know. No "What's with the brown water?" No "Hey Kate let me compare notes with you about the Smoke Monster." No "Sawyer while you're lying down, did you ever wonder who sent that food drop?"
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Feb 02, 2010 10:02:57 PM CST
Those very good epiosdes to start the final season of Lost!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Best parts? Everything going on in the parallel universe or timeline! I really enjoyed that shit!
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Jack cures Locke in the alt and it affects him when he lands on the island in the other reality!
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Guess Sayid is Jacobs Avatar.
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Way back in Season One, Jack somehow miraculously cured his wife's spine. Could they really, six years ago, have been setting up Jack curing Locke in this alternate time line?
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The Black Rock was a slave ship, right?
I'm guessing that Richard Alpert was a slave on that ship! -
Ever.
Thank you, Darlton. My faith is restored. Remember...Jacob Loves You. -
waking up asking where he was? Please, let's not pretend that's the same thing as characters asking logical questions in truly bizarre situations. Like to Hurley. "Who is Jacob? What is the temple? How do you know it will bring Sayid back?"
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New thing with human's memories that kind of becomes the human it replaced.
See also Baby Spock in Star Trek III. -
Seriously, people are complaining about the Temple? You mean the building that was referenced several years ago that Ben told his followers to take the children too?
And the the poster who said he wished the MiB entity had been referenced before S5.... uh... I guess the freaky spirit in the cabin imprisoned in the ash circle 3 years ago that was whispering to Ben doesn't count? -
Are you saying Sayid is gonna turn blue??
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nice call...so it's Locke vs. Sayid?
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The chains, I think, was a reference to Richard's "servitude" to Jacob. Obviously, MIB (or Satan?) was belittling Richard for serving Jacob rather than him - choosing good over evil.
Also, anyone catch Sayid in the crucifix/Christ pose as his body was being carried?
I think Jacob saw Sayid as his chance to inhabit a new body, seeing that Sayid was injured, but not dead. Once Sayid was dead, JAcob could come back.
Not sure what the drowning was all about, though. If they temple people didn't seem genuinely shocked by Sayid's death, then I would have thought they purposely killed him to bring Jacob back. PErhaps they were given instructions by JAcob in the letter to do what they did, but didn't know the reasons for doing so?
All in all, great episodes. Let the haters hate. I'm enjoying the hell out of the show's complexity.
And even though Heroes doesn't have a talkback anymore and even though the show was sucking for a long time, it has also had a GREAT season this year! -
You whining talkbackers sure do, though. Guess I have no reason to come here to read fan reactions anymore. It's littered with armchair writers trying to convince me that I'm not enjoying this. Later twats. Still love the show.
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the episode was pretty good but definitely not one of the better season premieres. It was interesting to see what happens to the characters if they never crashed, but it feels like adding an unnecessary subplot when there are already SO many loose threads that they could tie up. As usual, everything that happens ON the island is far more interesting - I'm glad Juliet got a proper, on-screen goodbye. I KNEW Cindy would have an important part later in the series and am very glad the kids whereabouts is finally answered. But overall, I didn't feel like the premiere was greater than the sum of its parts which you could DEFINITELY say about the premieres of seasons 1, 2, 3 and 5. I'm still excited to see how the last season plays out.
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Feb 02, 2010 10:10:07 PM CST
For those thinking the answers are not coming fast enough
by evildeadron
we learned what/who exactly the smoke monster is, what the temple is and where the stewerdess went, that richard was a slave on the black rock, the bomb worked, and that the island is/was a prison for the entity that is the smoke monster/MIB/esau. i would say we got quite a few answers tonight
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Feb 02, 2010 10:10:17 PM CST
Norm, if you're enjoying this there's no way I could convince yo
by reflecto
Stop pretending I can GET INSIDE YOUR MIND AND MAKE YOU UNHAPPY. Only "Darlton" (how adorable) can do that.
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Richard. Naked in chains....hmmmm, nice....but I digress. I have always gotten the idea that Richard came with the Black Rock, though I have nothing to concretely back that up..so perhaps that IS what MIB meant.
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So, it's obvious that the Lazarus-Pit Pool of Life Temply thing is what has been protected all this time by the others. Aaaand I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Jacob and Richard are (were) benefactors of this Shangri-La.
However, this ep raised waaaaaay more questions for the bucket list. If we're truly going to get answers, they need to start coming next week.
I really want this amazing show to end in a complete, sensical arc. I'm tired of recently ended shows and their writers - BSG chief among them - pigeon-holing themselves and taking the escape hatch....
"The best endings make you think and never answer all the questions."
Bullshit. The best endings reward your continued viewership...not necessarily with a tidy, happy ending, but with some kind of closure at least. -
You say we know EXACTLY what it is. Okay. Tell me.
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so the effects take a lot longer than usual to kick in.
My guess with Richard is that he was on the black rock - another in Jacob's long line of experiments. The guardians of the temple may be the remaining people from that time, and are trying to keep out cerberus/mib. As for how we know he's the cerberus / black smoke? see mib/locke saying to ben "sorry you had to see me that way" when he destroyed jacob's people AS THE BLACK SMOKE. The question I have is: is the cerberus completely malevolent, or do his killings / behavior serve some end? Overall, I think these eps kicked ass. 4.5 stars. -
a week between episodes fucking sucks. Lost is way better watched back to back. arrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh
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Just saying...but you state this as if there is a plot the writers are supposed to follow. What if this "subplot" is necessary to the endgame?
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Anyone care to take a stab at WALT?
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I'm just wondering how we know that's what he's called.
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When he said he wants to go home he meant home to the temple. The temple is his home. That was my understanding.
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I thought the same thing initially, i.e. coming from the Black Rock. But then I thought it probably just meant being in servitude to Jacob.
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And I flipped out when Hiroyuki Sanada showed up. I had no idea. I had not being reading spoilers. So I was ridiculously happy about that. The dual? tandem? whatever timelines are really really cool. And I love badass Locke. That is one sexy old man. Oh and one more thing.... ding, dong the bitch is dead. I hate Juliet. :D
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or at least not that we saw. You know why.
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smoke monster = Jacob's unnamed nemesis = fake john...
the monster was revealed to be a form of this person we met in the season 5 finale, it wasnt some advanced security device, nanobots, or any of the previous theories in seasons past....the mystery now is not what is the smoke monster, but who exactly are Jacob and the MIB -
None of them have amounted to anything long-term.
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Last year Illana said that Jacob hadn't been using the cabin in a long time, which is consistent with the season three episode in which Ben and Locke went to the cabin. There was a breakage in the protective barrier around the cabin, allowing the Man in Black to take control of it. This is consistent. Now whether or not you like that idea or not is obviously your prerogative but I've really enjoyed the journey thus far. I'm going to save my praise or criticism of the mysteries of the show until after the series is over. It seems rather unfair to judge that aspect of the show based upon not fully realized information. Also, bringing Sayid to the temple does not really seem to be that big of a deal. Because otherwise, once they pulled out Juliet, what were they going to do? There was no plan. And the fact that Hurley seemed to have at least something that resembled a plan was better than wandering aimlessly around the jungle given that Jack couldn't do anything to save Sayid at that point. Personally, I loved the episode and really want to see what is going to happen with this alternate timeline. I don't really like the idea right now, but I didn't really like the idea of the flashforward either when it was first introduced, and I'm willing to see how it plays out.
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How many former "Deadwood" actors does that make on Lost? Four now?
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I really loved the scenes on the plane. I kept thinking maybe Jack would remember something from the original timeline. The only ingredient missing which could possibly make the episode even better was snakes.
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So apparently on lost we have a knock-off John Lennon and his merry band of Asian Island Monks bringing Sayid back from the dead. LOL @ any idiot still watching this disaster of a show. And I didn't think anything could have worse storytelling than Glee. Not to mention a scene between Locke and Jack at the airport before the crash where Jack directly acknowledge and asked why Locke was in a wheelchair. Yeah, Jack would see a man in a wheelchair then WALKING AFTER A PLANE CRASH and never acknowledge it. I hate you Lost. (unless i'm wrong and Locke and Jack did have a scene in the first episode)
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Very excited about this season. Hurley really is "special" with being able to talk to dead people. I like the whole parallel world going on and seeing how they would have ended up. MIB is one bad MFer. I'm kinda getting a heaven or something vibe and now REALLY want to know where "home" is. Good to finally be in the Temple we've heard about for years. I also noticed that the Others seemed to all come from different eras. Good things and hints of great things to come.
I noticed that guys like Oliver were on here this morning at like 3AM and although they seem to dislike LOST and bitch how its not as good as their Japanese cartoons, HE HAS BEEN HERE BITCHING ABOUT IT ALL DAY!!! Someone has not too much of a life. Sad really. To those who enjoyed the show tonight, let the theories begin! -
They already KNOW The Others have a place that heals people. THEY TOOK GUNSHOT LIL' BEN LINUS TO THE OTHERS LAST SEASON! Fuck!When are you people going to realize that just because we don't SEE conversations doesn't mean they Haven't taken place offscreen? These people aren't on 24. And they aren't in an AICN LOST talkback either. We have no idea what questions they ask each other or discussions they have when we're NOT watching them. You bitch that the plot is driving the characters. But if you had your way, they would stand around delivering exposition and backstory and nothing would ever get done.
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Juliet is trapped, she's yelling for help, she stops yelling, it's a life and death situation. If only there was a doctor who could have gone into the hole with Sawyer.
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except that it seemed pointless to bring back Juliet just for a death scene. I didn't need to see that. It was like compounding the problem, not oh good to see her again.
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i think they were implying that Jack has or will have memories of the other timeline (ie: he vaguely remembered Desmond) so maybe the key is that Jack has to remember and fix / change what is going on in the LAX alt timeline
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those saying that we are simply seeing what would have happened if the plane hadn't crashed are mistaken. there is clearly something very important at work in this alternate timeline... something much different than from the original timeline if the plane had never crashed.
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too much to take in.. you don't have to be a genius to figure out that the Losties lives are shit by not landing on the island.. but it also seemed to change things before they got on the plane.. like Shannon staying in the bad relationship and not getting on the plane..
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couldnt quite place that fucker, damn he looks skinny
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That being said, it was still interesting enough to make one want to continue the journey to the very end. I think the best part (or most important moment) of the show was obviously Smokie/MIB's declaration to return home. It's definitely a tip-o-the-hat to something big and finite.And I just want to say right here, right now, and for the record:John Locke is coming back. I'm betting on it. In fact, I'm going back to my earlier post - he just might be the one that "lies in the shadow of the statue". He will return and he will save them all.(Locke better return...he's the best and most fully developed character on the show.)
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so.. is this alternate timeline a "Flash sideways"?
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And you know that. Come on, man, that is a bitch move supreme. "Oh, they figured it all out, they just didn't talk about it on-camera." What the fuck are you smoking? That's an excuse for being able to write quick plot over logical character behavior. WEAK.
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Feb 02, 2010 10:26:47 PM CST
Only thing I didn't understand is what the nuke did???
by ashokforgiven
Anyone have any ideas of what the nuke did exactly? My initial reaction was that LAX Jack had the memories of Island Jack, but he didn't seem to recognize anyone.
Otherwise, AWESOME start thus far. This is going to be one heck of a ride. -
is really Ras Al Ghul's translator.. so does that mean that Richard really is Batmanuel?
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wants to go home, which were assuming is the temple. but wasnt he living under the temple before the nuke went off? so maybe thats not where he means
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How did Sawyer just stroll in like it was horizontal this year?
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They complain like little bitches, yet tune in every week. Go. Watch. Something. Else. I watched the first two seasons of Heroes, and then, when it started to suck... guess what I did? I stopped watching! I didn't continue to watch, and then annoy everyone who watches. Sorry if you can't stand compelling TV and need every answer right this minute.
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...and are we to believe that Jughead sunk the island when it was detonated?
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Desmond turning the failsafe key really was the detonation for the hydrogen bomb?
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The Devil himself?.....(In the book of Job (Iyov), ha-satan ("the accuser") is the title of an angel submitted to God. In Judaism ha-satan does not make evil, rather points out to God the evil inclinations and actions of humankind. In essence ha-satan has no power unless humans do evil things.) now think back to the coversation on the beach in the season 5 finale
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Creating another timeline?
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* Great episode. Pretty much everything I expected. I, like many others, was worried about the alternate timeline thing - but I'm fine with it now. Still don't know what the point of it is yet, but it's still interesting.
* Wish we could have got a name for MIB. Would make things easier.
* Get ready for the alien reveal! MIB wants go to 'home' - back to Planet MIB! Or maybe not.
* Get ready for the Christianity reveal! At two separate times characters questioned what happens to you after you die. Sayid wondered about his afterlife, and Locke said the same thing about Christian. Seems like they're trying to tell us something about the resting place of our eternal souls!!! Or maybe not, we'll see.
* Fotunately, or unfortunately, there weren't a lot of new questions here - just pieces of answers. I think that's a good sign.
* Can't wait until the characters stop having this "I don't know what the fuck is going on anymore and I am hopeless to care" mentality they've had for the last two seasons. -
My guess is that the bomb didnt actually go off - the time jump happened first.
So that might mean that the bomb went someplace else...or some other time...
BTW - stop bitching you others - if you dont like the show, dont watch it, fine. I am sure the oxygen network is showing a movie you will like better. This episode was badass. And if you didnt see all the episodes - then you have no idea what IS and IS NOT intelligent. This is the most brilliant hour of TV on...bar none... -
for The Tick reference
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I don't really understand why every conversation should happen on screen. No show in history has ever done that. If a show did that we would need like 365 episodes a year.
And I LOL'd at a complaint??? that the show has plot driven writing? Um... so I guess that is the opposite of a show that has no plot... thank God you don't write for the show or I would certainly never want to watch it. -
People need to get used to this. I always assumed as LOST got closer to the end, it would, in some ways, get less "omg exciting!!" all the time like the middle seasons. Mysteries are always more interesting, and more exciting, than the unraveling of the mysteries. I thought the premiere was fantastic, but I agree it wasn't as in your face amazing like other season premieres. The shot of the island underwater was the best crazy wtf moment. But when you go to a commercial break with finding out a guy you suspected might be the smoke monster actually is the smoke monster, or charlie saying that he wished hed died, is less
"intense" than moments like finding out what was in the hatch, seeing the crash from the others viewpoint, etc. I'm sure towards the very end, as destinies come to a head and things really wind down it'll more intense again, but as long as we are going to be getting more straight forward answers, i expect a pace like this to continue. -
That means you, Mr. Nice Gaius! Always glad to see your name on the threads (any thoughts on Caprica btw??). So, we're back on the island. Don't know what the fuxx is going on but I'm definitely strapped in and along for the ride. I remember reading back in season 2 or 3 that Lindelof and Cuse already knew how they were goig to end this thing. Here's hoping that wasn't complete bullshit. if it is true, and I say this as a writer, then we are in for a treat.
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Different site.
They pointed out at the beginning that they weren't at the Swan construction site...they were at the Swan hatch site, after Desmond pulled the failsafe. Why they went there, only Jacob knows. -
This is an action/adventure and mystery serial. These characters do not "go home to their lives outside the workplace" at the end of each hour. It is not a sitcom or a procedural. They are on the island fighting to survive and figure out what is happening. Every crucial conversation about the story and the events around them has played out on-camera. If you seriously expect me or yourself to believe that Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, et al sit down for rap sessions between episodes to scratch their heads and think about this shit without it happening onscreen, you are fooling yourself. You are making excuses to avoid dealing with the fact that these characters react illogically to insane events and instead take them in stride for poorly written reasons.
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Exactly what I was thinking.. they time jumped before the bomb went off.. the failsafe key was the detonation of the bomb..notice how everyone after the hatch implosion couldn't hear either..
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Jacob now in Sayid's body?
Smokie/MIB/NuLocke=Satan?
Richard Alpert=Gabriel? -
Anyone got any suggestions as to what was going on there
Jesus Christ this show is good. -
Okay, Smokey is the Captain of The Black Rock and the people in the Temple, as well as "Jacob's bodyguards" are the crew. That's what I think. Then I can't figure out who Jacob is. I don't guess he was on The Black Rock too? Maybe? The spring is obviously a Lazarus Pit. Jacob is dead so it turned all sewagebackuppy. How did Sayid resurrect if 'dead is dead'? Is he Sayid? Did Jacob take his body? What the fuuuuuuuuuck. The first two hours and I've already gotten tears and goosebumps. Schrodinger's Cat like a mother frakker. I guess the Non-Crash Timline people will eventually figure out what's going on and try to get back to the island again? Where did Desmond disappear off to? He wasn't even supposed to be on the plane. It's already a mindfrak. Not Locke being The Smoke Monster was pretty amazing.
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Using a NUCLEAR BOMB to reset time based on a 'gut feeling' that it's meant to be is the height of absurdity!!! And 'frozen donkey wheel' should be the title of a Les Claypool side project, not a major plot device. I just think Lost has become a bit too into itself.
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That's what Lost does. There's never an Answer Bomb, it always comes to you gradually and you infer the answer long before they actually tell you flat out. We had already figured out that MIB was the smoke monster, they just confirmed what we had already knew. You can go back all the way to when Yemi ghost appeared to be or summon the smoke monster, or further. Was Alpert on the Black Rock? Well all signs point to yes, we're waiting for the flat out confirmation on that one too now. The mystery is ripe for the final confirmation.
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They all traveled through time, they have all seen the smoke monster, they have all seen the island dissipate or were on it when it did. They've seen dead people walking around the island, they've seen Miles talk to dead people. So come with me to this temple that can heal Sayid, FUCK YES LETS GO WE ALREADY SEEN MORE CRAZY SHIT THAN THAT.
I know I would fucking not question it at all if I saww all the shit they have. -
I totally agree about the "gut feeling" bullshit.
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Juliet asking Sawyer out for coffee. I bet she does it in the LAX timeline later. Of the recaps of talkbackers above, I most agree with dapper swindler. Except not sure on the alien thing.
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Every time their reaction has been to shrug and say "OK."
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So are we to assume that Eko, Michael, Walt, Ana Lucia, Libby and the others from that bunch also still got on the plane in the new timeline?
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Because right now we have 2007 and 2004X. Not sure how they're going to reconcile that (like.. how will 2004 and 2004X both end up at 2007 where John Locke and Jacob are dead?).
And speaking of 2004X, what the hell happened after The Incident that the island is underwater?
If I had more willpower, I'd just wait til the end of the season and take a day and watch them all back to back, because waiting a week is going to suckkkk. -
You guys are onto something BIG. I was wondering how the hell there were two timelines but this makes perfect sense. But it can't have jumped before the bomb detonated it had to have happened simultaneously...right? And how was Juliet the first and only one to know about the two timelines?
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I'm thinking Desmond hopped over from Universe-Island to Universe-LAX as part of some Hawking plan to consolidate the divergent timelines. Unless it's Universe-LAX's Daniel Faraday getting his DOCTOR WHO on to eventually save the day.
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I need to know what those murderous diamond thieves did after they arrived at LA X!!!! I must know or I cannot go to sleep tonight!!! ARGH!!!!!
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Man in black did not inhabit Lockes body he just took on its appearance. No reason to think Sayid isn't Sayid.
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Feb 02, 2010 10:44:35 PM CST
Like the alternate reality angle, but kinda glad this is the fin
by mrhazard
I mean how many times are they going to film an airplane sequence, or kill off somebody only to resurrect them later, or jump thru time and space or pull off some M. Night Shamalan-esque plot twist that blows your mind... And mind you, Lost might be my favorite show of all time but I'm happy this is the last season...
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It is absurd. Jack went crazy. He was so desperate to fix things he lost his mind and clung to an insane plan. Are you not watching the show or do you just not understand the characters?
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my man??
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That is what doesn't make sense. People are saying that MIB was imprisoned in the cabin with the ash and then suddenly escapes by someone breaking the ring. The reason that can't work is simple, the smoke monster was out and about in S1 and S2. So is this an error?
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PLEASE COME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The rules dont apply to him... Or something... And remember, the island is not done with him...
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What I think the nuke did was set off an EMP first, that triggered the anomaly sending them back....TO THE FUTURE. And then the nuke went off somehow sinking the island. And Desmond jumping timelines would be really cool.
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Thanks and the same to you. As for CAPRICA, it's far too early to tell. I've only seen the pilot and the latter half of the second episode. It looks good and some of the dialogue is good but...I'm not really buying the teenager in a Cylon body thing right now. So, unless the show can prove to me that it's got more than an emo-teen being the foundation for the BSG Cylon culture/revolt/war, I just don't know.I will say this: it was totally worth it to watch Joseph Adams tell his son what their real last name is. Just hearing "Adama" made the pilot worthwhile.
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Jacob appeared to Hurley and TOLD HIM WHERE TO GO AND WHAT TO DO AND SAY WHEN THEY GOT THERE. How Fucking Hard is that to Understand? It happened while they were cutting away to the other characters. Sayid is dying. What the fuck else are they going to do? Would it be more LOGICAL and REALISTIC if they asked the men with guns who were about to shoot them to please explain this brown water process and why do U have to let the sands run out while their friend bleeds to death? Or just let the guys JACOB SENT THEM TO get the fuck on with it?
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I can die happy now, I'm in LOST nirvana...
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(DON'T READ IT IF YOU HAVEN'T SEENIT!)............................................Juliet.
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Its Zoroastrianism. Jacon equals Ahura Mazda and Locke-guy is Angra Mainyu.
There is one universal and transcendental God, Ahura Mazda, the one uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed.
Ahura Mazda's creation—evident as asha, truth and order—is the antithesis of chaos, evident as druj, falsehood and disorder. The resulting conflict involves the entire universe, including humanity, which has an active role to play in the conflict. -
She was useless anyway... The only worthwhile thing she ever did was translate French...
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A real gothic throwback.
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Reading many of these posts it seems the premiere wasn't that good. Alas, I can't really think of any negative criticisms for Pt 1 or 2. Except the 1 week break until episode 3.
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Juliet is the only one to know ab the two timelines bc she's the only one who knows she detonated the bomb.
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never gets a name... Like it was too evil even to HAVE a name...
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I'd cry over them too.. now what do we have? A homely flight attendant..
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but if Jack does surgery and fixes Lockes legs at some point, these writers are fucking brilliant. Maybe he'll even cure Rose's cancer while he's at it.
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...something is different in this parallel/divergent/fractured reality. Not everything is the same. Shannon isn't on the plane. Desmond is (or...IS he? Cue maniacal laughter). Locke's bag 'o knives and Jack's dead pappy never made it out of Sydney. Plus The Island is sorta' at the bottom of the ocean (and I'll have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure the statue was still intact).
So something has changed. Whether that happened in '77 when the nuke went off or if EVERYTHING changed entirely is yet to be seen. But that explains why some characters (or rather actors) can be 'missing'. -
She's the only one who knows she detonated the bomb as in everyone thinks it was just delayed or she's the only one who knows the explosion happened?
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I'll wager a ton of money than Aaron and Claire are going to play a HUGE role in the next batch up episodes. Not sure how they fit in with MiB and Jacob's bet, but it should be really interesting to see what exactly happened to Claire in that cabin back in S4. Surprised more people aren't throwing more theories around on this subject, lol.
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"Would it be more LOGICAL and REALISTIC if they asked the men with guns who were about to shoot them to please explain this brown water process and why do U have to let the sands run out while their friend bleeds to death? Or just let the guys JACOB SENT THEM TO get the fuck on with it?"
When they were holding Sayid under water and everyone started yelling they were killing him, wouldn't it make sense if they said, we're not killing him, this is how the process works?
Instead, what happens? They say nothing. Let everyone panic and yell. And finally jack tries to approach and gets karate chopped. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. -
Someone pointed out how getting answers isn't as much fun as having mysteries. This is true. However a mystery needs an answer or it is worthless. It's unfair but there is no way around it, is the sweet sorrow nature of the beast.
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but my brain is fried. That was an amazing, breath-takingly good episode. And it makes me even more excited for the rest of the season even more than I already was, which was a lot.
But I do agree with those who are happy this is the last season...mostly I just can't see how they could turn the show on it's ear again to somehow top this. Divergent timelines. Jaw dropping. -
The Others have always been dicks like that from day one. They refuse to just answer a question that would make everything so much simpler. Maybe there is a reason for their behavior.
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the Nikkie and Take a Shit Guy story.. sorta Twilightzoneish..
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Kate's best assets are her legs but they rarely show them. Unlike Juliet's widely appreciated assets. If Kate's legs go equal time to Juliet's boobs she'd be more popular.
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Man, Desmond meant that shit literally...
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you guys sound like such petty, sniveling cunts and you don't even realize it. especially you, reflecto. you're a waste of pretty much everything you're made of, which i'm guessing is something along the lines of pubic hair, trucker spunk, and enema water.
LOST is everything i could possibly desire it to be. most of you are just whiny piss ants who couldn't write an episode of 'two and a half men' if there was a blowjob from mila kunis waiting at the finish line. -
They are the Enlightened. If you're not deemed worthy to BE one of them, why would they tell you who they are, what they do, what's going on?
For my money it looked like Jacob gave these 'non-worthy' Losties a free pass into the promised land, and Jackie Chan's Dad didn't agree they were 'enlightened'. Hence, no answers. -
there is a reason.. they have trust issues because they're holding on to a big secret.. if you knew the lottery numbers for tomorrow would you tell every one on the street what it was going to be??
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http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
I guess my main question is how/why did the 1977ers get from 1977 to 2007? Why/how do both timelines exist?
Where's Doc Brown? I need a chalkboard explanation! -
That Jack's plan worked. In what reality does a nuclear bomb send people back in time or create alternate timelines? That's not even pseudoscience, which is what Carlton and Cuse were saying the story was based on. That's straight up science FANTASY. You do not play around with nuclear energy based on a hunch. That's a LARGE leap in logic that I have been unable to take. I haven't been able to take the series seriously AT ALL since the last two episodes of Season 5 when Jack was hatching this ridiculous plan which he knew would wind up with Kate, the woman he supposedly loved, back in the bounty hunter's custody. Not to mention the fact that she was totally okay with that because she was 'with him'. HELLO. They knew that they would not remember each other. It MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE. Stop and really consider it. If they love each other, why go through with something that would insure they never met??? It doesn't stand up to internal logic, story logic, ANY logic!
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2004X Hurley is a douche..
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The nuclear explosion isn't what sent them back in time. The nuclear bomb destroys the magnetism of the island and therefore the island never pulls Flight 815 down and the plane makes it safely to LAX.
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I'm assuming that's what Jacob and Evil Locke boil down to now.
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(SUPER SPOILER FOR WEST COASTERS)............................................is Juliet.
Watch that last scene again. -
send people back in time or create alternate timelines? In a reality where there is a pseudosciencey Island full of Foreign Matter that already interacts strangely with all matter of physical properties (magnetism, weather patterns, time travel) on the Island itself or around it. On a TV show.
Don't get me wrong. I think what they did was a VEEEEEEERY bad thing as far as the whole "having an intact universal reality" thing is concerned. But it doesn't go against any of the strange properties of The Island that have already been established on the show. -
Even in an alternate reality he never got to tap that ass... Shame...
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cans were looking more plentiful..
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http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
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You're right. It IS Science Fantasy. Always has been. It's a TV show.
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Or at the very least Hurley perceiving the bird calling out his name? I wouldn't focus so much on that 'unanswered question' if the writers had not introduced it. Why even waste a script line on something so inconsequential if it meant nothing?
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But they said everything in the end could be backed up by plausible scientific theories, not time travel, alternate universes, etc.
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However, perhaps these beings -jacob and mib - need something else - perhaps a soul - to inhabit, which requires death? I don't think they have appeared as living people at any point, have they?
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You're probably right. I suspect that there behavior does have a logical explanation because it has been so consistent that someone had to have thought carefully enough about it from the beginning.
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Scientific THEORIES. Like Time Travel. And Alternate Universes. Theories have been postulated about each of these.
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or else we'll all be asking ourselves, "well why don't they just take him/her back the fountain" everytime like we all were about Juliet.
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The nuclear explosion isn't what sent them back [FORWARD] in time. The nuclear bomb destroys [DISPERSES] the magnetism [POCKET OF ENERGY] of the island and therefore the island never pulls Flight 815 down and the plane makes it safely to LAX. [ON THAT SIDE. IN THAT ITERATION]
The intervening event occurred. Things changed. Feature this..you saw an Oceanic flight land in LA from Sydney ..But... And. Was there any confirmation that it happened in 2004? What if what you saw on the plane happened ..somewhat later?
When Desmond looked in the Mirror what did Minkowski say?
"You look a lot older now.." -
This talkback reminded me of this Onion Story:
Man Who Enjoys Thing Informed He Is Wrong
LOS ANGELES—George Himmelsbaugh, 32, was informed Tuesday that he was incorrect in enjoying a thing he had been deriving pleasure from for many years. Authorities in the field informed Himmelsbaugh that, although he believes his appreciation of the thing to be a matter of subjective personal taste, any positive feelings or satisfaction taken from this are by definition erroneous. Furthermore, sources reported, Himmelsbaugh does not in fact enjoy the thing, but has merely been convinced that he does by the influence of others who also claim to enjoy the thing but who must be insane or developmentally disabled if they actually do. Himmelsbaugh has responded to the information by endeavoring to enjoy the correct things in the future. -
Bend Over, Here It Comes Again. I laugh at your silly and dance on your willy.
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So does that mean when you die you go back to the alternate timeline, your consciousness, memories and all that go back too? Do all the characters have to die now?
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Macfaux is on the money
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I think they got rid of it instantly now that it is brown. Probably brown because Jacob died recently and its waters are polluted and soon won't work at all.
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I have no idea. Maybe something the writers pulled out of their ass, or maybe something that will eventually make sense. I hope you have enough humility to wait before judging one way or the other at this point - unlike some people here.
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it healed Ben, Sayid and presumably Richard. But Locke was healed without it, what's the deal with that, no one touched him after the plane crash? Jacob could seemingly bring people back to the life by just touching them. And why do mom's die in child birth everytime? Radiation?
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"The Others have always been dicks like that from day one. They refuse to just answer a question that would make everything so much simpler. Maybe there is a reason for their behavior."
So you're saying because they've been like that from day one, that makes their irrational behavior rational?
And sorry but the constant "maybe there's a reason for this" and "maybe there's a reason for that" got old long ago. Lindelof and Cuse have piled irrational behavior upon irrational behavior and people keep saying it will all be explained. -
Feb 02, 2010 11:39:33 PM CST
So Sayid..resurrected in the Water of Life..the 'Man in Black'
by macfaux
..is the new bodyguard ..for the knew 'Once and Future King' ..hmmmpf.
And funny too mention...that water of Life..now muddy..like that plague upon Egypt..ya know the one where the Nile turns... Bloody. With Jacob gone, and sins no more carried (carrying water..love the heavy hand)..They no longer 'Wash Away'.
Don't make me put the Joe Purdy lyrics up again..just get it.
As a practical and political aside..as Sayid, a devout Muslim was just 'forced' baptized..I expect a soon comin boycott by the sweet folk at CAIR. I keed. I keed. Jeebus. -
I think it's life vs. death.
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sadly. I"m just glad it's finally over. B/c we'll never get any answers to the big questions we had over the yrs.
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And you can either be humble and believe its at least possible that there is an explanation or you can be arrogant and assume you already know there is none.
I may be able to explain or defend any other irrational behavior you perceive on the show. -
When Desmond set off the failsafe, he was able to send his consciousness to an alternate timeline where he could have changed things with Penny, then he returned to his body. In 1977, Juliet did the same thing so she got a peek at the result of what she did. The MIB=smokey=Locke thing is very clear if you watch the season 5 finale. When they summon smokey, Locke walks out of the jungle. He keeps leaving right before smokey arrives. And anyone who bitches about an alternate timeline isn't paying attention. The entire show has had time travel elements saying "you can't change anything," because if you did, it would only create an alternate timeline that would not actually affect you, just create an alternate you. Faraday probably knew this, but an alternate universe Charlotte was better than none. Why complain about the losties going to the temple? What else were they gonna do? Drink the dharma beer and go skinny dipping?
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material object anyone was in contact with at the point of a flash-jump. See also: the fucking rifles, clothes, backpacks, etc. from Season 5, and the rope Sawyer was holding onto while Locke climbed down the well.
reflecto is a fucking dumbass who doesn't pay attention for shit. PLEASE stop buying into his shit-stirring idiocy. -
that's a god damn clue if ever i saw one, but shit if i know what it means.
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an hour must be too long for these shit head writers. Oh, And I don't give a shit about the effects of changing history/time travel. This season is going to suck.
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There have been countless times a character has been healed on the show without being brought to the temple other than Locke. Consider Rose's cancer, Locke's broken leg, or any time a character has been punched, stabbed, or shot. I remember years ago when people complained that the show was unrealistic because people healed from their wounds so fast. Then we found out that was intentional all along. See where that arrogance gets ya?
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there was one there already remember?
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Me Likey that take of Juliet's last moments. Because I get the distinct impression that the alternate LA X timeline is the goal or reward for finally fixing things in the 'standard' timeline. Someone mentioned earlier that one of the last scenes of the show will be Sawyer meeting Juliet in the alt-timeline and having that convo. I am in agreeance.
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then why do some heal and some do not? and how does that happen anyway? they have devoted so much time to this angle but can't give us a solid explanation?
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Anyone notice the Cloth that Non-John cut and cleaned his blade on..was some such similar to the swaddling cloth of Moses?
What? Do you none of you children watch the Ten Commandments on Easter?
Terrific.
Any way..it looks very similar. and "Memnet warned Bithiah that the swaddling cloth was Levite"...well
As Ben said to Jacob.."..he gets marched up here..like he was ...MOSES."
Hey what about Aaron? -
because it is obviously not an island. Its some sort of ship. It moves thru time, it moves from place to place and after a nuclear bomb goes off it damages it enough so it sinks.
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i don't doubt you, but refresh my memory. i don't remember the context.
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I mean, did you see him when he was a toddler? Answer that! Cuse Cuse!
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Jacob to Moses to Aaron, right?
Knew there was a reason Claire was a regular cast member again this season... -
i had a different thought when i saw that... didn't ilana pull a swatch of cloth roughly that size and shape with a knife sticking through it off of the wall of the cabin, saying "it looks like it's been a while since anyone was here"? that was the first thing i thought when Locke teared off the piece of tapestry.
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The island seems to boost healing effectiveness. It won't cure everybody of everything instantly. I can't explain how it heals since that requires a fantastic explanation. Also, the island, or someone, can harm as well - Jack's appendix, Ben's tumor.
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fuck, my brain is completely fried.
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Also, if you need some citations. Last Season when Ethan shot Locke. Alpert bandaged the wound and said something like "That's all I can do, the island will take care of the rest"
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The bomb set off a flash, which moved the not-1977ers instantly, before the explosion could hit them. They went to 2007, because the pocket's energy ended the moment Jacob died, so the force pushing them through time stopped at that moment. I'm starting to think the energy in the hatch was powering Jacob. The season 2 failsafe either weakened jacob, allow his nemesis to get the upper hand, OR it freed Jacob after decades of having his power siphoned by the hatch.
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"And you can either be humble and believe its at least possible that there is an explanation or you can be arrogant and assume you already know there is none.
I may be able to explain or defend any other irrational behavior you perceive on the show."
Yeah, I get it. You're trying to make this about me. Somehow I'm arrogant because I think there's problems with the way the characters behave. If you want to attack me, call me a hater, etc, then we can't have a discussion. I agree with many that the characters behave irrationally to serve the plot.
OK. Explain why this... They hear Juliet yelling from under the rubble. As they frantically clear the debris, Juliet stops yelling. This is obviously a life and death situation. Juliet needs help. When they finally clear a path Sawyer goes into the hole. WHY doesn't the doctor go to help Juliet? I'm assuming I don't need to go into all the reasons why it makes sense for a doctor to go check on Juliet.
Explain away. -
Back in the other node.. the feature I raised..and would muss your sweet hair is this...
What if there is no 'happy' ending? What if the first five seasons we have 'devoutly' followed..
WAS...the 'Second Chance' asked, prayed and begged for...
No. No. No. ...as Hurley said..there must be Laughter and a Homecoming.
Not a Journey and Tears..right.
Right?
Ah, Godsdammit..this is ending bloody and sad...idn't it. -
there seems to be MUCH more evidence pointing to a "life vs. death" fundamental debate than a "good vs. evil" one. perhaps healing vs. hurting is one specific microcosm of life vs. death.
i'm starting to believe that MIB is absolute death and jacob is eternal life. -
I don't mean to attack you personally. And you do make a good point about Juliet.
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is death itself... but he can't, because jacob has made him immortal, which he seems fairly capable of doing.
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great episode . and im glad my biggest question about lost was answered ( the contradictory missions the dead sent the losties on like christian wit michael, older walt to locke or shannon, eloise wit des, jacob wit hurley, maybe etc). mib may not have been outright estab(besides smokey) but ive noticed the two sides of the island ever since the frieghter (dont believe me check my posts as mraholeramirez from back then). haters or nonfans shouldnt complain bout mib bein shoehorned in.my guess for the future des will be hopping between the 2 realities and jack will have to decide which reality will have to exist.
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Can you repost your theory?
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they hope to see Shannon this year.
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With the questions finally being answered, for the first time we might start to discover goofs and errors. Reminds me of seasons of 24 where when things started to come together, people started to hate the season with a passion because things did not add up. This will likely be the first time that Lost has started to add things up. Last season Illana went to the cabin and went inside and said that Jacob had not used the cabin for a very long time. Basically, that set in motion this whole idea that it has been the MIB inside the cabin the entire time we have witnessed somebody inside claiming to be Jacob.
So when Locke and Ben went into the cabin, the MIB put on a show and spoke so that only Locke could hear him to make Locke feel like a leader and to severely piss off Ben. This caused Ben to become jealous and shoot Locke. The MIB healed Locke and told him to kill the people who were coming to the rescue the 815 survivors. This would later lead to meetings with Christian who told Locke that he would need to die (so that MIB could steal his identity). But here is where they might have went wrong. They made the MIB, smokey. The ring of black ash was intact when Ben and Locke first visited the cabin. They even made an effort to step over it. So what is going on here? How was smokey in seasons 1 and 2 if he was apparently trapped in the cabin? He also appears as Walt immediately after Locke and Ben leave.
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Because beautiful 20-year-old women age very noticeably in 6 years. I said this during our Lost meetup tonight and the women present were offended. go figure. Okay, I didn't say it but I thought it. Anyway, I'm wrong and she will be back - evidently - because of what Herc just said.
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Feb 03, 2010 12:19:40 AM CST
John Hawkes has now passed Christopher Lee and Hugo Weaving
by banditdarville
Well, at least on the TV level. Weaving (Lord of the Rings/Matrix) and Lee (Lord of the Rings/ Star Wars mythology) hit doubles. John Hawkes hit a triple. Now he's appeared in three fantastic TV series (Lost, Deadwood and Eastbound and Down).
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I don't remember, but when did they find the ring of smoke not in tact? And could it have always been that way and Ben just didn't check that part? I don't remember him circling the cabin looking for flaws in the ash.
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says John Locke is NOT possessed by the Man in Black.
Cuse says the numbers will be back in big way in the coming weeks.
Lindelof said something is inhabiting Sayid.
May 23, a Sunday, will be the date of the Lost finale. -
Long many a year or so ago I posted an idea about the very fact that Smokie (now known as MiB) represented death and postulated a counter entity to him, a 'Light Monster' if you will, as a representation of Life (which could be conceived as what we now know as Jacob or The Island itself).
Think about it. Smokie speaks through the dead. He kills. But The Island heals the broken and gives new life. Jacob Loves You, after all.
'Good' and 'Evil' are human constructions, indications of a presumed morality inherent in 'civilized' sociey. Life v. Death. And Free Will v. Destiny. Because we always have a choice.
It just boggles my mind to think that John Locke has been positioned like a chess piece by MiB this whole time. I think that's part of Jacob and MiB's deal too. Jacob does not interact, does not show his hand. He has faith in the actions of the people, that will choose the right path. But MiB, he get's to fuck around with the primitives, play his games, set up his plans. He sometimes even does it in Jacob's name. But Jacob can't intervene, not in any direct way. Unless he happens to be a dead ghost Island spirit thingey... -
Was different but possibly similar..in that it was loomed by hand.
The Cloth Un-John cut and cleaned on was Familial...like a tartan..a Kilt..a family cloak. The warp and weft of the message found 'pin'-ed to the cabin wall was 'specific' and telling...prophetic even, yeah?
Funny..i remember .."If my brother were a blanket, he'd be a colorful crazy quilt." ..so appropriate.
Any way..Moses. Swaddling Cloth..some such the same..Guess I'll know come Easter.
Say...Easter. hmmpf. -
MIB (Death):
as the smoke monster, has killed MANY inhabitants of the island personally.
killed jacob, after expressing an overwhelming desire to one day do so whilst the two were on the subject of their "disagreement".
can take on the appearance and read the thoughts of the dead.
Jacob (Life):
apparently immortal (until MIB found a 'loophole')
resurrected Locke after his fall from the high-rise
has seemingly given richard alpert (and possibly more of the others) eternal life.
there is a pool in his temple that apparently either heals or resurrects the dying/dead
he resided beneath a statue of a fertility goddess.
he sent his message/list concealed inside a wooden ankh, which is a symbol for eternal life.
i can't even think straight anymore, that's all for now. -
But Jacob gets to pick the players
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Feb 03, 2010 12:29:22 AM CST
"In what reality does a nuclear bomb send people back in time"
by hercules
"Escape From the Planet of the Apes"
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that this is some original theory of mine... it just seems to be making the most sense out of all the popular theories, as we move closer to the end.
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i got it...lockes body in the real reality is his dead body from the lax reality .... christian body in lax transported to the real reality ...also lockes knives... remember i said this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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that john locke is not possessed by MIB? because to me, that statement doesn't contradict what we already believe. locke is dead, his body's lying there. MIB is just taking his likeness, which i wouldn't consider "possession" at all.
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MiB/Smokie were always pretending to be Jacob. That whole sideshow he put on for Ben and Locke was just another piece of his puzzle...starting to plant the seeds of hatred in Ben, so that when the time came he would kill Jacob for MiB.
MiB/Smokie/Esau/Whatever has been setting up the endgame of Jacob's death. Going back, his hand IS everywhere, and all those little questions of, 'Why is The Island seeming to contradict itself?' are answered--it was all manipulation. Calculation. Scratching, stretching, searching for a Loophole. And the bastard found it.
So also, to MacFaux, I don't think the first 5 seasons were the do-over. I think they were the fuck-up. And if the Losties in The Temple can actually set things right, their reward is waiting just a sideways reality jump away... -
Oh, I wasn't staking a claim or anything. Just adding on to the conversation. But it's a good theory, no?
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maybe it was richard tryin to protect himself from mib in the cabin ...we saw one guy usin the ash as a barrier
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Hey, yea, that's what I was pretty much saying. My question is about the black ash surrounding the cabin. When Ben and Locke went to the cabin, it was all intact and the made an effort to step over it. If MIB is smokey, how was he roaming all about in season 1 and 2? In the season 5 finale, Illana approaches the cabin and looks down to see that the black ash ring has been destroyed and she acts very concerned.
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lockes body in the real reality is his (after he does a heroes sacrifice ) dead body from the lax reality .... christian body in lax transported to the real reality ...also lockes knives... remember i said this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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were Brothers... by design, if not by choice ...before they were eternal Enemies.
"Your husband is in the House of the Dead."
"And he has asked the Nile god to bring me this beautiful boy."
"Do you know the pattern
of this cloth?"
"If my son is covered in it, it is a royal robe!" -
it would be fucking awesome if MIB just wants to die, and to kill jacob for trapping him in the living world for so long. i've always wondered if LOST is going to go the same old route of good vs. evil or some other beaten-to-death cliche endgame, but an actual commentary on whether or not existence is even worth the paper it's printed on, or if it's better to never have lived in the first place? sign me up for that shit.
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that is the question.
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Feb 03, 2010 1:04:59 AM CST
Orca Seven Five..this Orca Actual, over? Cheif? do you read me?
by macfaux
Ok. Cheif..when you orbit this AO..know yeah. You were right. I was wrong. No Mushroom cloud.
And yet, Cheif. I was right and you were wrong. They landed in LA. hmmpf. But you were wrong and I was wrong..and we were right, ah..
How bout that?
Solutions:
1) An earlier intervening event. (yep. that one)
2) An unexpected variable. (No coffin. No crash)
3) Node 41067. Do you remember your bloody finger? (Read that post)
Whose retarded now, Mother skipper? Told you the colours worn were significant. Others-Red, Blue, Black, White. Other Others-Tan, Grey, Navy, Black..
Like the symbolizing of flags or (don't drop the 'L' and make a joke) or Kalidahs. yeah?
RON. -
...partly because I'm still absorbing and partly because I'm not really completely stoked on what I've seen just yet. I will say that even though I just re-watched the entire series that I had already forgotten how much Desmond had to do with the early seasons. Like, not pressing the button and causing the plane to crash. So some of my earlier theories were clearly wrong. Interesting that they could still be battling gods (a temple, anyone?) and "super humans" that they've granted powers to. Also interesting that one of them may not have been there by choice. Interesting that Desmond may disappeared because of Jacks actions in the present. Because Charlie "was supposed to die" and didn't.
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not real chains... the metaphorical chains of immortality. that was the first thing MIB said to richard after he killed jacob, which could possibly have nullified the 'gift' of immortality that richard had been given by jacob.
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I was taken unawares by the whole alternate time lines business - what if the plan worked, what if it didn't. But I was overjoyed to see Cindy the stewardess and the children again. Oh, and getting a clear and definitive answer as to who/what Nemesis/Man-in-black, Not-Locke AND Smokey is, that was nice too.
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The nuke split reality into 2 timelines, one where the plane never crashes, and the one where the plane did crash, that are running simultaneously. IMO it's the reason why 'dead' people show up - because as long as they're alive in the other timeline they're not fully dead, kind of a Schroedinger's Cat dead. Existing and non-existing at the same time. I'm sure the 'they didn't crash' timeline ends in some kind of fucked up global cataclysm, and the 'they crashed' timeline is the one where the Losties (through Jacob's mind-fucking weaving of the perfect chain of events) save the world, all while keeping a bewildered look on their faces.
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...questions people seem to be having. Like why does this "sometimes" happen but not always? And why did it work for this "someone" and not that one? I've always assumed that their is a greater conciousness on the island in control of these, making decisions as to who gets what, or doesn't. I'd assumed it was Jacob and that he was deciding. When the pool didn't save Sayid at first I figured I was right. But now Sayid appears to be alive, but the pool was still brown. So, does that mean whoever Locke is now has control over the decisions (conciousness of the island)? A lot of the island stuff is working for me right now, other than exactly how a nuclear reaction of any time could work in that manner. I guess it could just give everyone a last reset, so that whatever happens now is current and permanent. But combining whats happening on the island with whats happening in the other scenes (for lack of a better descriptive at the moment) is kind of giving me a mind fuck. Not sure what the hell is going on with two simultaneous time lines. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that hasn't happened before, right? With the same characters possibly living two alternate "realities" in the same time frame... if that is what's happening. Maybe it isn't, since the temple people were dressed in kinda hippie garb and the van was shiny new....
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That's what I thought, too. Because Jacob is no longer alive (in control) Richard no longer has his "powers".
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Nuclear reaction of any kind. Funny that I wrote time instead, though. Stupid Lost and it's time warpingness.
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Ronald Belford Scott and Charles Hieronymus Pace approved this.."death by misadventure"..from the ..message ..yeah, whatever.
There was a friend of mine on murder
And the judge's gavel fell
Jury found him guilty
Gave him sixteen years in hell
He said "I ain't spending my life here
I ain't living alone
Ain't breaking no rocks on the chain gang
I'm breakin' out and headin' home
Gonna make a jailbreak
And I'm lookin' towards the sky
I'm gonna make a jailbreak
Oh, how I wish that I could fly
All in the name of liberty
All in the name of liberty
Got to be free
Jailbreak, let me out of here
Jailbreak, sixteen years
Jailbreak, had more than I can take
Jailbreak, yeah
He said he'd seen his lady being fooled with
By another man
She was down and he was up
He had a gun in his hand
Bullets started flying everywhere
And people started to scream
Big man lying on the ground
With a hole in his body
Where his life had been
But it was -
All in the name of liberty
All in the name of liberty
I got to be free
Jailbreak, jailbreak
I got to break out
Out of here
Heartbeats they were racin'
Freedom he was chasin'
Spotlights, sirens, rifles firing
But he made it out
With a bullet in his back -
I would suggest that the 2nd timeline isn't 'new' at all, it's just now being shown to us. Since the Losties *always* were the ones who nuked the Swan site, that timeline has *always* been there. The 2nd timeline is no doubt part of whatever problem it is Jacob's trying to fix with all his timeline tampering/master plan.
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I loved seeing all of the Alternate reality stuff. The best was the scene between Locke and Jack at lost baggage claim. But I loved the stuff with Bernard and Rose and between Locke and Boone. Also Kate fighting Frogurt for a cab and Sawyer eyeing Hurley for another Con. Then the moment between Arnzt and Hurley on the plane and Sayid and Arnzt at baggage. Plus old Jin and Sun and Jin being taken away and Sun staying silent. Plus Jack saving Charlies life once again and him getting hauled off. It was all an awesome way of acknowledging the past while exploring new possibilities! Loved Giachinno's music like always how he took old muciacl themes and changed them to fit the moment.
Loved the true reality how Miles used his ability twice once with Juliet for her message and then later to figure out that Sayid wasn't a ghost. Loved Dooku and Lennon the two new Others. Also loved the final moment between Sawyer and Juliet. The Smoke Monster/Man In Black confrontation with Bram and his men was awesome, I really loved how Bram tried to used the ash to protect himself and Smokey used a pilar or ceiling (to fast to tell which) to knock him out of the circle in orderr to kill him. The conversation/reveal between Ben and the Man in Black was also awesome. Plus it was awesome to finally see the Temple. Also I didn't mind the underwater scene. -
Sorry if this duplicates previous posts ... I love a good LOST talkback, but 'tis late and I couldn't read everything.
As for the Christian themes mentioned above:
Jacob as a benevolent "Christ" figure, offering wisdom and purpose to His chosen, but not forcing their hands. Scripture says that we were created by God with free will, which was put on display in the Garden of Eden when mankind chose to disobey His command to not eat of the Tree.
"MIB" as a Satanic figure, who wants nothing more than to kill the Christ figure Jacob, and does so through a former confidant (Ben/Judas). Also, MIB's statement that he "wants to go home" (to the Temple, I believe ... the "home", perhaps, of both Jacob and the MIB?) is a reference to Satan's ultimate goal to overthrow God as the ruler of Heaven; Satan's original home was, of course, Heaven (see Isaiah 14 for Satan's "I Will" statements).
And, perhaps less obvious ... when Jacob says "they" are coming, he must be referring to the Losties, or his "disciples", the church. Jesus commanded His followers to carry out His mission once He ascended to Heaven; perhaps the Oceanic Losties (the ones he clearly chose to come to the island) are somehow similarly empowered to bring MIB down.
I like these themes being revisited on a grand stage like LOST. I understand that some are against Christian thought being pimped on primetime TV ... but these are eternal themes, and some of the best conflicts ever put to paper. Interpreting the events of LOST through this lens is, for me, very satisfying. -
Yeah, no, if Jacob's 'gifts' were nullified upon his death, how do you explain Hurley?
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The Un-john song..ref'd above
http://tinyurl.com/unJohnoff
∞†øΩ
Bosquet de l'Encélade
Enceladus, with serpent limbs, and the scales of dragons for feet, disabled by a spear thrown by the goddess Athena ...is like an 'earthquake' ..and want's to return to his home.. ya know ..Enceladus?
6th moon of Saturn? the egg? Well, you better look it up ..some say that under that shell is Atmo, and then an Ocean, an then an Island. hmmpf.
Nah, I'm fuckin with you.. Darlton told us there would be nothing not explainable by Science.. no time travel, ghosts, gods ..Oh.
So..
This all must be the imagining of a child in bed being read fairy tales by a ..someone.. and when that adoptive father isn't there to read to him any more...and his adoptive mother can no longer explain why the dude is no longer there to read to him..journeys off into his own imagination...
The kid imagined it all..
No, I'm just fuckin with ya again.. -
I assumed that what he was refering to was the last time that he saw Richard was after the Black Rock landed and Richard had been a chained up slave.
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- MIB has Miles' power (he knows John Locke's last thoughts).
- Juliet flashed between the regular storyline and the ALT (she said she wanted James to never have been on the Island, and Miles found out that her last thought was that it worked).
- Jack has a bad case of deja vu.
- Desmond, perhaps just like Juliet, is flashing between the real timeline and the ALT?
- Perhaps the real goal of Flight 815 was to bring Christian Shephard to the Island? That one's a stretch, but this episode certainly makes him seem more important. -
- MIB has Miles' power (he knows John Locke's last thoughts).
- Juliet flashed between the regular storyline and the ALT (she said she wanted James to never have been on the Island, and Miles found out that her last thought was that it worked).
- Jack has a bad case of deja vu.
- Desmond, perhaps just like Juliet, is flashing between the real timeline and the ALT?
- Perhaps the real goal of Flight 815 was to bring Christian Shephard to the Island? That one's a stretch, but this episode certainly makes him seem more important. -
...weren't on the island. I can just accept that as a Hurley weirdness. smackfu... very interesting. I'm going to have to soak that one in and apply it to everything I can remember from previous seasons. Depending on how hey resolve the storyline ON the island, I think I could live with that.I'll say again, no Christianity. It's just too easy. I mean, it could be what they're going for, but I really don't think it is. Mostly because of the use of the Eqyptian and Myan iconography (hieroglyphics, statues, temples, etc). Oh, and what was the deal with the long through the water fade in to the entire island at the bottom of the deep ocean? Have you guys covered that yet?
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Ignoring it, at the moment... My mental capacities can only take so much.
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But it was the island, right? They showed the others village in a pan by and ended on the statue's foot.... at least I think that's what I saw. Gah. lol I have it on the DVR, going to watch it again tomorrow.
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...but I think the fact that people would find Christian themes in this show is very much why religion works for some people and doesn't work at all for others. I see very little relating to Christianity in this show. But if you want it to be their, if you BELIEVE that it's their, you'll find it in abundance.
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and the wisdom of a man.
Bring us back to the all right now... breakin down the fourth, fifth ..whatever it takes ..wall
How incredibly outstanding was the lensing of this premiere? Whether TPTB can go on to capture the magic of Season 1 or no ..they sure spent the coin to insure the imagery was as magnificent as it has ever been..
And. Sweet mayo covered chili cheese and fries ..how far as actors have Lilly, Holloway, & Garcia come ..
Let us type plainly, in the beginning, they were as but babes in the woods ...reliant on instinct and the beneficence of nature. Now?
They are show bidness Samurai. They do more than good service to their craft. Great skill. Great success.
Pretty damn impressive as acting goes.. -
If Juliet's last words to Sawyer were legit, and the bomb did work (in that it split the timeline and the Losties now exist in both times and places), wouldn't the bomb have thoroughly leveled the "circa 1977" island, hence the "sunken" statue, Dharmaville, etc.? Now, we know the bombs dropped on Japan in the forties didn't sink the island ... but could this be what the writers were going for? Showing that the Incident - for better or worse - annihilated the island? It definitely sends a strong message about the endgame for the Losties that landed at LAX: barring a physical miracle (or, another donkey-wheel timewarp), they ain't getting back to that island. Their fates - good or bad - are what they truly would have been had they not crashed. It would seem the writers have removed that macguffin.
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It's freaking me out. Because I know which spelling is grammatically correct.
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So that would technically mean that the blast created three timelines, right? The blast timeline, the LAX timeline and the temple/beach/island timeline? I guess that could be what they were going for. I'm more inclined to think that it's foreshadowing. Showing what we may be headed for on the island at the end of the series. Which would of course make the LAX timeline the only "reality" still moving forward.
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Finding Christian themes is not the same thing as believing in Christianity. The position they were holding Sayid in (arms straight out to the side, wound in his torso, information on how to resurrect him coming from a message hidden inside a cross) was very much a Christ pose--and then immediately after he gets resurrected. Resurrection was definitely a theme last season too--remember the scene in the CHRISTIAN CHURCH where Ben saw a painting of the RESURRECTION OF CHRIST and talked to Jack about it? Or the fact that the promotional picture for this season has the characters reenacting the Last Supper? Or that one of the main characters is named CHRISTIAN SHEPHARD? I'm as unreligious as they come, and it's obvious to me that this show is incorporating certain Christian themes.
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towards the end of the season after everyone in the reg reality reunite , some crazy stuff will happen causin the island to sink (jack will again try to destroy the island ). everyone will get to finally restart (lax) but mib will have found a loophole to get to lax reality. both storylines will happen at the same time as we seen so far. in short, lax happens after the reg timeline
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Good point. I was assuming the "blast" and "temple/beach/island" timelines were one in the same; that might not be correct, though. Check my math: The Jack/Kate/Sawyer trifecta exist in what you are calling the "blast" timeline, right? Isn't that the same one as the "temple/beach/island" timeline? Jacob is dead in both, right? And we know this because of Jacob's appearance to "temple/beach/island" Hurley, and the temple Others' fear of MIB/Smokie coming to get them? Interesting that we never SEE Smokie attack the temple at the end, because MIB/Smokie/Not-Locke are still on the beach at the statue ... does that make sense?
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Cause..No, wants to see Jack Pray..Kate pray..Sawyer, Sayid, Hugo say he is prayin..John Locke beseeching, Eko reaching..Desmond as a monk.. Rose Pray.. or Pray for and with Charlie, ..Charlie Pray..or title an episode..'Psalm 23'..or release mother fuckin promo photos ape-in the God damn 'Il Cenacolo' ..ya know, the Lost Supper, oops, the Last Supper.
Sweet Jesus Mohammy Buddha's butthole... stupid ignorant arrogant atheists.. so scaredy that they might be judged...
You typed.."I see very little relating to Christianity in this show." You win a Royston Lodge no-prize ..cause buddy, that is not, as the crack wise goes, not the stupidest thing I have ever read ...just probably the stupidest thing I will read today ..this week. probably. maaaybe.
And I include my on crazy dumb drunk ramblings in that contest. Jesus Christ. you're a moron. -
the cause wilhappen later in the season...resultin to lax
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I think quite a lot of that stuff is them and their (correct spelling) endless use of red herrings. I saw nothing about the pose they carried Sayid in as Chist-like until you just mentioned it. Egyptology is something I've always had a lot of interest in, so I never saw the message as being carried in a cross. It was being carried in an ankh, which holds quite A LOT of meaning and also resembles the body positioning of Sayid when being carried to the pool. (Read about ankhs here http://tinyurl.com/5e52b7 ). Also, you're points are clear and obvious (I mean that as a good thing). Yes, they were re-enacting the last supper in the promo pic. That's undeniable. But this is Lost, the meaning of doing so is more than likely the exact opposite of what we'd expect it to be. What I don't understand is the apparent looking for Christian themes in the overall story of the show. When you get right down to the brass tacks of it, murder, talking to the dead, drug use, promiscuity, backstabbing, endless lying, violence ad nauseum, none of those things are really very Christian-like. The behavior of the show, in general, just doesn't work within the boundaries of Christendom. So when talkbackers post very well thought out examples of how people and plot points on the show could represent Christian themes and characters from the bible, while I respect it, it just doesn't work for me. In my mind, it's believers seeing things that only believers could see (again, meant respectfully as clearly, I'm not one).
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I agree. But, I'm a born-again Christian, so of course I'm in favor of including such themes. However, if you take the Scriptures as literature and nothing more, they still contain timeless conflict, falls from grace, redemption and of course, the eternal (indeed, cosmic) struggle of good vs. evil. Most wouldn't have any problems crediting these themes to Battlestar Galactica, Firefly or the X-Men ... but, some get "wince-y" when you bring the Bible into it. It's just how it is.
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We know that the MIB *can* be the smoke monster. But do we know that *only* he is the smoke monster? Maybe the monster is something already on the island that he can inhabit. Maybe both he and Jacob can be the smoke monster. It's still possible that he was trapped in the cabin in the early parts of this show. And was the MIB Christian? Presumably he was when he told Locke to go back in time ("you're gonna have to die, John"). But was he always? Has he been inhabiting Christian's body, or did he just need the dead body to be on the island in order to appear as it? How about the dead people that appear to Hurley off the island?
Obviously the new timeline started being different in 1977, and we have only just begun to see the differences (Hurley being a content jerk, Shannon not on the plane--and maybe not Michael, Walt, Eko, Ana Lucia, Libby, etc either--the coffin not on the plane, Charlie almost dying in the bathroom, Desmond being on the plane. Also apparently in this timeline, Jack didn't have a buzz cut in 2004. A lot of other things could have changed since 1977 too.
But presumably everything up to and including Juliet setting off the bomb is a part of the original timeline too. What I mean is--they're now on the island in 2007 in the original timeline. We've seen that in that timeline, Richard remembers watching Jack and them set off the bomb and vanish--so those actions were always a part of that timeline. But maybe the combination of nuclear bomb plus magical energy caused reality to split, creating one reality where the energy is unstable and needs a button to be pushed to release it, and another one where there's no unstable energy, and no button. (Still no word on why an Apple ][ E that you have to manually put a secret code into is better than an automated system that releases the energy without human input).
Anyone else notice a theme with pens? In the first episode of the whole series, Jack is doing CPR on Rose, and Boone gets the misguided idea that he might need to get a pen to perform a tracheotomy or something. He goes around and collects a handful of pens. In last season's finale, the item Jacob gave Sawyer in the past was a pen, and a pen was one of the items Hurley was given back when he checked out of prison. In this premiere, Jack needed a pen to save Charlie, but didn't have one, because Kate took it to free herself. Any more memorable pens on Lost? (the only other one that comes to mind is the one that wrote NOT PENNY'S BOAT)
One last thing: when the bomb went off and Jack and the others were transported to 2007, what happened to Bernard and Rose? How about Clair? How about Vincent? -
Locke cannot be possessed because the actual Locke is dead. The Smokey Locke is a new creation. Sayid, on the other hand, really is possessed because his actual body has been given new life.
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Dude. Fuckin' chillax. What the fuck? How about asking me to clarify before unleashing? Damn. Read what I just posted and then try and write and intelligent response. It's Lost - NOTHING is as it seems. At the very least they are playing with the beliefs and symbolism of MANY different religions. To simply right off everything that has happened thus far as being a Biblical battle is ridiculous to the extreme. Are you aware of how many people in times of extreme stress and fear start praying (and not necessarily to a Christian "God") in times of extreme stress or fear? I assure you am most certainly NOT an moron. If you actually read everything I've posted and think about I'm pretty sure you'll get what I'm saying. But whatever, no skin off my back. I'm not arguing with people who can't post a comment without insulting somebody elses intelligence anymore.
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so, we might get an ending that has everyone living a so-so life (no island)?
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..the island..
(Stephen in Braveheart, hands to the sky) ..Jeesus.
It was a small gadget..not an H-bomb. The trigger.. a fission device used to, as mentioned, trigger, the fusion event.
Note. The sunken island? Was post Dharma, post the braniacs from the Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications on island..The cut to under.. showed the sonic fence and the Dharma shark swimmin ...Look.
Sorry man, still whirled about by the dumb fook-y-ness of Jaka above...The only way you sink an island in the Ocean, in the real world we occupy, outside of turnin a wheel and dive, dive, dive and all that is by tectonic event
What do I mean?
In the Iteration witnessed.. the mother fuckin volcano erupted..
Jesus think it through.. -
Like I said, I didn't mean to start a shit storm. I was a faithful Christian for many (MANY) years and have done nothing but study religions ancient and new since the day I decided to stop being one. I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance or one of insult. I just wanted to comment that I find it interesting that whenever a battle of good vs evil containing the "unexplainable" takes place you're very likely to find people of faith seeing their religion represented within. If that makes me a moron, so be it. I'll not defend myself any further in this regard.
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I'm not trying to argue that it all adds up to some magic Christianity message. It's just that there are undeniably some themes and images from Christianity. There just are. There are themes from a lot of places: there are lots of themes from the Odyssey too (Desmond getting stranded on an island, trying to get back home to a woman he loves named Penelope--plus there's an evil cyclops [Mikhail]--plus in last season's finale Jacob is weaving a line from the Odyssey in Greek into a tapestry. And so on.) But that doesn't mean Darlton are trying to convert everyone to believe in Zeus and Hera.
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Arrogant asshole much, MacFaux? Maybe you should put the bottle down for a bit, buddy.
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All of the themes you mentioned are well represented in the Scriptures (except maybe drug use ... can't wrangle a Bible story for that one). The Bible (and Christianity, for that matter) are much more about redemption from sin than about rules-following or putting on a plastic Jesus veneer and acting superior. That so many folks hate church, Christians and Christ (not saying you do) is the fault of His followers (present company included) doing such a poor job of embodying what He taught.
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If two of you can (same soul) be one, then who is the "real" you?
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Fair points, you're certainly correct that they're represented in the Bible. I just don't think they way they've been used on the show work as representing a Christan point of view. That's just my opinion. OBVIOUSLY some people disagree. Also, there has been so many other religions, cultures and mythologies represented that, for me, the Christian angle just doesn't work with Lost. I may be wrong and I'll happily admit it if I am, even though I'd be a bit bummed out that that was the point of me working my brain for the seven years while watching this show. Anyway, thanks for having an intelligent discourse instead of bashing me for having a thought. I do not hate anybody who is willing to accept that we all deserve the right to make our own choices, express ourselves and live our lives as we see fit without being judged by our neighbors. That responsibility is supposed to belong to someone else.
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Feb 03, 2010 2:57:43 AM CST
@Jaka ..cause you used Chillax. As the sayin goes 'In Bruges'
by macfaux
'I retract that fuckin statement' ..but I didn't misread you, fella. What you typed is what you typed and the range of ambiguity was ..not significant. Own your displeasure with the God of the angel armies and ..as I wager, less that and more like every other higher power poo poo-er, organized religion. Cause adhering to codes do suck if you don't. Don't it.
Look, your not, maaybe, a moron. Just young. and Jesus I hope. So know, every lad goes through that stage ...but you'll get it. eventually. maaaybe.
Or you'll burn in hell fire like the godless lil god damn pagan heathen choad gobbler you are.
God dammit.
"God loves you, as He loved Jacob" -
Hey, no worries. I would agree that the show doesn't present itself from a Christian or pro-Christian POV ... just that Christian themes are present. You're right that ancient Egyptian culture is heavily represented, among others. Someone stated it above (might have been you, sorry for not doing the research), that as a Christian, I am seeing it through the Christian lens, and they're absolutely right. But, for me, that's fun and intriguing.
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Shut up, already. I've a 38 year old whose been studying religion and philosophy for over 20 years. Get off your soap box of bullshit, open you mind and actually READ everything I wrote. Pah. Done with you.
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Good Gods..I hope you are French or somethin, ya know, or something to explain such dumb. 20 years. Much good that 20 years of readin did you. Your posts ..but a tale. Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
So. you are a mother fucking moron.
To help, have you tried the books with smaller type and less pictures? -
Her name wasn't on Jacob's list given to Hurley by way of the Ankh
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LOST incorporates Christianity, Buddhism, Egyptian Mythology, Greek mythology, etc. Much like the matrix did. You're both right. Stop disagreeing with each other because you are both right
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Feel free to participate. They are on the sidebar after the button links.
http://lostroom23.blogspot.com/ -
towards the end of the season. Ben told Richard to take his people there. Ben then signaled them near the orchid near the end of season 4. And we saw it in season 5, and Ben was healed in it during s5. So STFU
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I watched every single episode of the Xfiles up to the very end and I LOVE Lost. so STFU
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John Hawkes..I was trying figure out what I recognized him from.. I love that movie.
Sayid's totally possessed by Jacob now, right? His own loophole.
"I'm really disappointed in all of you." sounds like the old testament god. -
praise the lord
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Hiroyuki Sanada, when he just effortlessly kicked ass..my thought was what if..
http://tinyurl.com/SummerWar
http://tinyurl.com/WinterCry
~or
Suppose he was..Miyamoto Musashi ..and as an author of Combat and War, had been condemned, consigned, co... ..whatever man. He did show Jack how silly and amateur his skills were, yeah? To reflect..
玉にぬく露はこぼれて武蔵野の草の葉むすぶ秋の初風
Too deep?
Ok. Which shirt would you like?
Shinmen Takezo! I thought, as I saw...
袖ひちてむすびし水のこほれるを春立つけふの風やとくらむ
no? Hi.
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You simply cannot skip seasons 4-5 and have any of this stuff mean anything to you. Please don't watch anymore. This is a SERIALIZATION... a single story, told from the beginning to the end (so to speak). You missed a TON of exposition. Go watch Grey's Anatomy or LAw and Order or something. Those are more geared for you.
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Me. The boards can't handle that many a-holes.
Let it go man. Let it go. Be nice. Cause, the wheel never stops turnin..
And don't ya dare come back with:
"That only matters if you're on the rim"
Wow. I walked myself right into that Whedon field of fire didn't I.
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quit with the nonsene posting... you're coming off as pretentious and crazy all at the same time and its not a good look. =/
... Id throw in an opinion on the whole relious-theme debate but it seems that topic is a giant minefield no matter where its brought up. -
6 years when I been doin this bit? Suck it, Champ.
My pretention is earned .. miles walked that you can never ever even feature. Now. Shhh. go play your x-box kid. mm-kay? -
do yall hear the voice is kinda different after he woke up or w/e you want to call it? i know it was only a couple words, but it didn't sound like he had an arabic accent
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Dude, the lower half of her body was crushed. She was bleeding internally (see spitting and coughing up blood), and there were probably a handful or organs that were all failing. Jack knew she was a goner and what could he really do in the final minutes she had? STFU
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to tell Sawyer and Miles "it worked". They could not have known otherwise. This will pay off later.. them knowing. She experienced some sort of reality-flash-jump like Desmond did when he turned the failsafe key. STFU
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dude, the MINE SHAFT is the FUCKING HATCH. They were in 2007 you fucking dumbass. Juliet was buried WITHIN the exploded hatch, you fucknut. He pushed aside the exercise bike that Desmond was seen riding on inside the hatch the s2 premiere. Do us all a favor, STFU
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Feb 03, 2010 4:22:16 AM CST
Crazy Final MacFaux Song! ..as Tevye says, its tradition, kids.
by macfaux
Say goodbye to your friends and family
Pack your promises silently
Leave a note on your kitchen table
This is all you will ever be
So hope for a better place, for a better time, for a better speed
So hope for a better use, for a better word, for a better need
And if you listen close enough
You might hear too much
Hard as sharp and razor-rough
You've never seen the such...
It's the definite door
To another dimension
Nothing
No more
(not even a mention...)
Keeping track of the eyesight streaming
Isn't part of the regimen
Many hours of sleepless dreaming
Unaware of the mess you're in
And if you didn't have a clue
You probably never will
And all the things you didn't do
Will inundate you still...
It's the definite door
To another dimension
Nothing
No more
(not even a mention...)
Better cross your heart, make it people-proof, try to fight the fright
And have a real good trip, see you when you fall, don't forget to
Write yourself back...
And if you fail to see the point
Of doubting all you do
Don't forget to blame yourself
There's nothing else for you...
Say goodbye to your friends and family
Pack your promises silently
Funny how they forget to tell you
This is all you will ever be
This is all you will ever be now
This is all you will ever be
This is all you will ever be now
This is all you will ever be... -
notice how Locke, after the hatch implosion, couldn't SPEAK (instead of hear)
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Anyone else think there was some eery similarities to the scene where Jack was trying to revive Sayid after Sol Star put him in that water, compared to the scene where Jack tried to save Charlie after Ethan hung him from a tree? I wonder if there's any significance to that.
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mention that. John in the tree could not speak. Kate in the tree could not hear..
Really, I was...God dammit. You just electric boog-a-loo'd and served me there. dammit.
Point to Billbo. God it makes my knuckles ache to type that.
Well played, sir. well played. -
at the jogging stadium in Los Angeles, LOST, S2 premiere, 4 years ago. The haters "they make it all up as they go along.. no master plan" ^^^TO the haters, STFU
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that final "poom" came too soon! I don't know WHY I kept waiting for Sayid to wake up - even worse, I'm still waiting for Locke to do the same!
anyway, still not entirely jazzed about this alternative timeline business - so far the ALT storyline seems just a bit... pointless - almost reminiscent of, you know, introducing new characters in the final season ;) but I'll give it a chance coz if there's just one thing this show has proven itself to be about time and time again it is...
PAYOFF! -
Thank you, thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Thank you SOOOO much for writing , planning, producing, acting, shooting, editing, scoring, a quality show that has single-handedly restored my childlike wonder I thought I had *LOST* for decades. No other tv show, or movie for that matter, has managed to engage and challenge me on all my faculties: emotional, intellectual, spiritual My heart will beat a little faster every week at 9pm and it will always be hard to sleep that night. LOST is now my all time favorite series and will probably always be. I think you have changed television forever, and alongside you are shows like I Love Lucy, Miami Vice, and the Simpsons. You are a class act, a work of art, a passion play. There is no equal, and the sum is greater than its parts. God Bless you, thank you for restoring my faith in the arts and entertainment industry, and fueling my heart and imagination. Namaste! See you in another life, brotha!
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underwater when the nuke screwed with the energy pocket that the donkey wheels connected too.
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mac, i know youve been posting in lost tb for a long time, for some reason this one slowed down enough i could actually say something.. you have moments of genius surrounded by crazy song lyrics nobody cares about and other weird stuff that doesn't make any damn sense.. and no not because i just don't understand, because you're talking nonsense.
... Personally, I took the deafness as an effect of the blast (whatever that actually entails, a bomb could have gone off), not as an effect of the flash... although i hadn't remembered lockes mute episode, seems like it may just be a coincedence.
aaand.. although I'd like to believe that everything going on in the show was planned "from the begining" the writers are looking for simlarities, coincedences, and other ways to pull the characters/story together, some things are just narrative devices... and theres nothing at all wrong with that. Hell, the entire alt-verse part of the EP was riddled with them, doesn't mean theyre all significant. -
is the big fucked up ??? for this season, among... well, all the other crazy crap we still want to know.
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"Dude, the lower half of her body was crushed. She was bleeding internally (see spitting and coughing up blood), and there were probably a handful or organs that were all failing. Jack knew she was a goner and what could he really do in the final minutes she had? STFU"
Did I miss a scene where Jack knew the lower half of her body was crushed, she was bleeding internally, spitting and coughing up blood, and her organs were failing?
It seems that you're creating your own little stories to help the plot along. Even in a case where Jack had no way of knowing something, you've devised an entire scenario where he magically knew. I guess that's the kind of shit you have to do with Lost.
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If we already know that a part of a station connected to the island, The Looking Glass, is already underwater, what happened to it when the island went underwater? Did it go even further underwater? Underground? That's a funny little nitpick. And yes, I'm being a dick, I really don't care at all nor is it a flaw. It's just kinda funny. For all I know its just down in an ocean trench deeper than the rest of the underwater island.
Interesting sidenote, when we zoom underwater to see the island and the broken foot...you can see a shark swim by with a dharma logo on it. Another nod to S1. Excellent. -
making this a turdfest. LOST is a snoozie
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by seeing Fringe you might predict whats gonna happen in LOST.
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How about the fact that they are in the middle of the jungle, and its obvious she is intensely injured. If Sawyer thought Jack could save her, he would have freaked out and made him do something. I think they all knew things just went wrong, and she was beyond saving. Yes, Jack has done other minor operations and caregiving in the jungle, but to save someone who was crushed under all that debris, with no medical materials, in the middle of a jungle, is asking a bit too much don't you think? I'm not making up a narrative to fit what happeneed, that just makes sense to me. What the hell was he going to do? He has nothing to work with, and nowhere to work on her. Why don't you try thinking about things rationally instead of insisting just because Jack is a doctor he can magically save her in the middle of a jungle, and stop being so smarmy. She was beyond saving, its not that hard.
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its hard to appreciate low quality shows like LOST after watching SGU. but ill try since its so popular with the low culture crowd.
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Um.. Jack was there when the all watched about 3,000 pounds of long, thin, sharp, jagged and bulky metal fall hundreds of feet on top of Juliet, right after she fell hundreds of feet herself. Now, go to bed, and STFU
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from a certain point of view..
you typed.."crazy song lyrics nobody cares about and other weird stuff that doesn't make any damn sense.. "
So you say..and says you. What can a fella buy with that? Scio me nihil scire. Sapiens nihil affirmat quod non probat. Si minor plus est ergo nihil sunt omnia. Sub sole nihil novi est... Ille Tabula rasa .
As I have typed..Where we go to is where are from..
Thank you. Thank you for takin the bit in your teeth and runnin hard..for lettin me point to that AGAIN: http://tinyurl.com/OneLightOneDark
...for letting me pimp joe and restate my assumptions (ya walked into that)
http://tinyurl.com/ChampBait
∞†øΩ
I got troubles Lord, but not today
Cause they're gonna wash away
They're gonna wash away
And I have sins Lord, but not today
Cause they're gonna wash away
They're gonna wash away
And I had friends Lord, but not today
Cause they're done washed away
They're done washed away
And oh, I've been cryin'
And oh, I've been cryin'
And oh, no more cryin'
No, no more cryin' here
We get along Lord, but not today
Cause we gonna wash away
We gonna wash away
And I got troubles oh, but not today
Cause they gonna wash away
This old heart gonna take them away
Sucker.. -
The island is underwater on this side ..in this iteration...cause the volcano blew.
Boom. Bloop. -
He's obviously trolling for someone to take the bait. He hasn't watched Stargate in years (no one has). This is all a joke, that only he seems to be in on. Ignore him, don't respond to him, and he'll give up and go away.
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funny how Desmond was just on the plane long enough to save Charlie's life - again...
someone (sorry, forget who) asked opinions on contemporary versions of Jacob/MIB for the mythical final shot of the series - I agree with you that it's probably not that Locke/Jack combination - in fact I'll go one step further and suggest a better pair would actually be HURLEY and BEN - who were both kinda chosen by their respective.. err.. players to speak on their behalf...
did anyone else think that the "important" thing Juliet was trying to tell Sawyer wasn't actually "it worked" so much as "I'm pregnant" - maybe hence the talk about getting a coffee some time even?
no wonder they kept her away from the Waters of Life - she would have ended up having an Abomination!
that one was for you Faux - I got it
PEACE -
I thought she was going to say "I'm pregnant". Someone here cleverly pointed out the "lets get some coffee sometime" as her mindflashing to the other timeline
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Dioxholster and reflecto! Just kidding. I think they are actually TheApostle and Jaka... no, seriously folks. Its Ji Yeon and Aaron, and they took MIB's and Jacob's place in a previous loop.
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"So... it was all a dream."
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played by the same actors... awesome
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...Mexican Coke. (that'll will screw witht the DEA's web crawlers)
*I think Desmond, in this instance was a canard.
*Hurley and Ben? ..dammit. perfect, Wish I had thought of it. On the beach ala 5.16 17 not sharing fish but a candy bar...yep, awesome.
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
As to Juliet..I knew..saw it doming.. that the audience was going to get boned on her reveal.. but yes. sir Maniaq. first thought 'love'..then 'pregnant' ..then the nature of the 'others' ..did not see 'it worked' comin.
But she is Bene Gesserit, yes?
..and James is the Kwisatz Haderach
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death
that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me
and through me.
And when it has gone past
I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain
Only I will remain -
The Sickness that made the French crew go crazy. Also, dying young Ben would never be the same once he went to the Temple with Richard.
I'm guessing Ben was healed by the same pool Sayid was, however Ben was able to survive.
But he was changed forever.
Maybe Ben was changed because he has now seen the fountain of youth.
But how does that make him kill his father? I do not know.
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Lots of esoteric Judaism, Gnosticism, and other mystery religions of the past.
Of course that includes Egyptian and Sumerian sources since the Jews got all of their mythology from those two cultures due to living both in bondage and as part of those two cultures.
-
Feb 03, 2010 6:43:16 AM CST
Is this FAUST? One god questioning man's fate to be evil?
by planetran_fan
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@BillboeFett
First, I'm not 13. I don't know what the failblog is.
I'm aware they all saw Juliet fall and debris follow her down the hole... and yet THERE SHE WAS MOMENTS LATER YELLING FOR HELP. They frantically move debris to get to her and then the doctor doesn't go in and actually walks up out of the crater.
And what do you think you accomplish by telling everyone you disagree with to "STFU"? What a baby. -
Honestly, what in the fuck are you TALKING ABOUT ALL THE TIME. I'm a smart person, not being a prick about it, but I'm just saying, nothing you have ever posted has read as anything beyond the inane ramblings of a paranoid schizophrenic. You keep coming on here posting these....things. And no one cares, because none of it makes one lick of god damned sense. "the island is underwater on this side...in this iteration...cause the volcano blew" what the hell are you getting on about man? What volcano? Do you even watch lost or do you just sit around listening to the wash away song all day? I'll just promise you one thing, all your stupid posturing is going to be wrong anyway. If you do have an actual theory buried in all that silly bullshit, it'll be wrong. You baffle me, man. Baffle.
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...sorry, reading my way slowly back through the talkback from where I left before the show, but this one I have to address... You've never been in a situation where you were getting to someone you loved who was hurt or badly sick, have you? You've never felt culpable for someone being hurt, have you? Life isn't an ADD adventure where you always make sure to have the cleric enter the scary abandoned temple first because his skills match the environment. Neither is Lost.
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This may have been pointed out already, but Jack wasn't necessarily finding Desmond familiar because of their time in on the island. Desmond and Jack met briefly prior to their ending up on the island.
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Nailed it! 2 points, sir.
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that's what i learned from this talkback.
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...Reflecto. Professional writer here. At this stage in the show for the others to not give credence to Hurley's claim that an unknown person had given him instructions as to how they might accomplish a seemingly impossible task would be at best quite selective. These same people just skipped through forty years of time...twice. Several of them accept that one of their number can communicate with the dead. Two more have communicated with the dead themselves. And on and on, ad nauseam. Now you might argue with some merit that there may have been discussion as to whether the message Hurley received was designed to help them or lead them into some sort of trap, but at this stage these folks have little left in the way of options. They have come to the end of their ropes. So, trying to put yourself into their positions, and thinking of what a "real person" such as yourself would do... ...what would your response have been?
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I really don't know what post or point of mine you're replying to (so I don't understand what you're saying).
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no.... they most likely haven't. the biggest problem with the naysayers, the people who dont understand the show, the people who are confused by the goings-on with the characters... the mythology...etc ... usually dont have a decent grasp on people in general and what motivates them, alot of the really stupid "WTF why he do that!?!?" questions can be figured out by anyone with social skills and some sense of empathy with other people.
... a classic example is an old roomate of mine who was pretty socially retarded, never understood why characters in movies/tv did what they did, and usually needed someone else to explain why something was happening on screen. This was also someone i didnt' go to movies with because they would start looking at me after every joke/exciting moment for a queue to laugh or something.
...... on a very unrelated note, these are the same people that think jay leno is funny. -
nice to have a bit of backup against the mental-case
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"Let's not resort to name-calling."
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Lost arm and all.
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They are still the Flash"backs" we have always seen. Though for the Losties time is sorta mixed up. What I mean is: The timeline on the flight is the "current" timeline. What we are seeing with the Temple etc are flashbacks to the LA X people's point of reference. Something happened on that island that we, of course, haven't seen yet, which will impact everything so they DO go back and time, are rewarded for their efforts, get on the uncrashed Fight 815 and eventually life will be good. Something in the final episode will happen to really send them back to tonight's opening scene. Whatever that something is is big enough to sink the island as well as reset time. So again, no sideways flashing, no "alternate" universe. Its just business as usual.
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*snort*..Sorry, buddy. Hang on...
I had to get a paper towel to clean off me monitor..and yeah, not for that. yet.
Anyway. Lean in to the pitch a little more, pal. As Frank said.. "the people who go out of their way to tell you they're the good guys?"
Well, are not...
Same goes for the folk who type.."I'm a smart person".
So, Frankly, what do you care what I type? I mean..if "no one cares" ..why do you care? why ask?
Kind of shot yourself in thine own ass there didn't ya..but your a smart person.
So, go on.. diagnose and say what for about schizophrenia.. Cause maybe I saw you in some such Psych class at Stanford and then graded you to harsh in Med school ... suggested the brain was not a realm you should venture into? maybe?
Don't presume child. That's more than once you have made attempt at personnel mounting..do it again..and I feature you are more than a lil sly and fey and a bit light in the sandal..only lookin for an online date. Do you prefer the up or down, sugar.
If you are lookin for a hump hump..you don't have to butter me up so much...
Ok? good. Now. Where are your Genius theories?
Here's one of mine:
http://tinyurl.com/CrowCrash
©herry πˆ¥ ?
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
In what distant deeps or skies
Burnt the fire of thine eyes?
On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare sieze the fire?
And what shoulder, & what art.
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand? & what dread feet?
What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?
What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
When the stars threw down their spears,
And watered heaven with their tears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?
Quick smart ass..who wrote it? Note. I don't even bother to ask you ta alliterate the relevance. Heh. Don't wait for the Google..Answer the question. Yeah, thought so. pretender. poseur. Scorn and defiance..slight regard, contempt, and any thing that may not misbecome. Me. The mighty sender, Thus do I doth do..whatever..me prize you at. Ok.
See. I did all that with 3/4 of a 5th of Whiskey in me..Cause I have seen too much. Thus my crazy and dumb.
What the fuck is your excuse, silly sad lil child? -
Just saying...
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good thoughts but imo you have it kinda backwards... i guess (literally, lol). imo the alt-verse isn't going to be a good thing for them, almost ever char is worse off.. and to be honest theyre going the direction i *thought* they were going with the off island plotline with them going back, i thought.. apparently incorrectly, that they would be in the worst case scenario... totally unhappy and dealing with the bullshit they left behind in the first place. They did have a shit time off island but it didn't amount to any consequence, this new alt-timeline is an actual threat.. if it becomes their reality our losties will be way worse off in the longrun. just look at Jin and Sun on the plane, back to what they were in season 1, Sun wont even speak english to the woman in the airport.
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Someone tries to explain in non-prick terms that, I am not a moron, I said smart, not a genius, not a matermind (like you, sir, clearly are. a scholar, no doubt) and you have to pick that one sentence out to laugh at, instead of addressing the fact that everything you say is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever read. You hang on...cause you're a retard.
Keep pasting "Oh I got troubles but not today" genius. You really figured out the whole of LOST on that one genius. Seriously, you're changing everyones minds here. Keep it up pal! -
cuz i am da macfaux and i love to snort the blow...
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Am I nuts for thinking the Isand is just that? I mean go look at Walt's comic book which is supposed to be important, then add in weird electromagnetic shit, smoke monsters and time travel. I think "home" might just be somewhere far far away.
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In last season's finale, we saw that Locke died when his dad pushed him out the window, and then Jacob found him and put his hand on him, and he came back to life. So in the alternate reality where they prevented everything from happening, why is Locke even alive?
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I think they prevented the crash, but later in the season they will change things back for some reason, and when they do they lose all memory of preventing the crash.
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was mentioned by Ben's teacher back when he first arrived as a youngling.
This premiere was rad. Wondering though, if smokie can't get past the Sonic Weapon Fence, how was it able to appear as young Ben's mother right outside his bedroom window in Dharmaville? -
Like the spaceship in District 9! "WE JUST WANT TO GO HOME" (scene from the trailer that WASN'T IN THE FUCKING MOVIE!).
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It's not explicit that Jacob "brought Locke back to life". Yeah, he touched him and Locke woke back up, but we can't assume that he revived him.
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...your point that Jack would have been first into the hole.
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..which Psych class did we share at Stanford? You're yankin my chain right? Were you a first year at UCSF? ..pffft..Well, you must be the way you stupidly and carelessly bat around schizophrenia diagnosis ..and all that..Oh? not a doc?.
Ok. Whatever man. I guess it is like Frank said.."the people who go out of their way to tell you they're the good guys?"
Are not...same goes for those who type.."I'm a smart person"
Are you? really? really man? how so? whatever...
Frankly, if as you say.. "No one cares"..what I type... Why do you? lookin for a date? I don't swing from that side of the plate. But. and, heh... how pretty are you? what do you care what I type in an obscure (sorry, Harry) fanboy website..why do you care?
The question young silly sir, is.. any way... jub jub where are all your genius LOST theories and such?
Here ist one of mines:
http://tinyurl.com/CrowCrash
Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?
Quick smart ass..who wrote it? Note. i don't even bother to ask you the alliterate relevance. Heh. Don't wait for the Google..Answer the question. Yeah, thought so. pretender. poseur. Scorn and defiance..slight regard, contempt, And any thing that may not misbecome. Me. The mighty sender, thus do I doth do..whatever..me prize you at. Ok.
See. I did all that with 3/4 of a 5th of Whiskey in me..Cause I have seen too much.
Thus my crazy and dumb.
What the fuck is your excuse, silly sad lil child? -
i WAS HAPPY TO SEE THE people living in the temple.They backon back to season 2 when JIN and someone else were in the jungle, and they crouch behind a bush, and see people walking by.All WE see were feet, and Cindy and the kids were there.So, for the writers/LOST team to not bring that back till now makes me happy
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what is it with these whining fuckwits?
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But I do think he saved his life. Stopped him FROM DYING, but I don't think Locke was dead from the fall immediately. Jacob gave him some strength, or essence, will to live or something. But I don't think it was resurrection in that instance.
As far as the two Lockes...haven't we all figured this out yet? Real Locke, our Locke, from S1, is DEAD. DEAD DEAD DEAD FOREVER. The "new" Locke is MiB/Smokie. I think hes just decided he likes this form/body. Our Locke, was used as a pawn, and died thinking "I don't understand" (which honestly is about the most heart breakingly sad thing I can imagine for John Locke...to die like that) but that was Johns life. Hard, and meaningless. He was a person ignored by god, denied good things, and was manipulated by MiB into believing he had a destiny. His destiny was to get played. To not matter. I know its sad, and its a difficult pill to swallow after all we have been through with Locke. But thats what it is. MiB is just using Lockes form, and hes going to continue to do so, mainly because fans woukld be pissed if Terry Oquinn just wasnt on the show for the final season. Nevertheless, our Locke is dead and gone. Unless in the end they really do reset the timeline, go in a loop, etc at the end of the show. Then Locke will return in the last episode or two. -
...He's not the new AsimovLives, he's actually more like the new JettL93, but with a new M.O. Seriously, who spends 24 straight HOUR on a Talkback continually trashing the same fuckin' show over and over again? Obsessive much?
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"Scorn and defiance..slight regard, contempt, And any thing that may not misbecome. Me. The mighty sender, thus do I doth do..whatever..me prize you at. Ok."
Yea, you're right. That shit makes perfect sense. My bad.
Thus do I doth do. HAHAHAHAHA -
Why is everyone assuming these are two parallel universes running concurrently? Darlton is not usually that straightforward. What if the bomb worked only in the sense it shifted the LOSTies to 2007? In that case, the island will sink for a reason we have not seen yet. The recreated plane scenario happens post that event, so what we are actually watching is the build up to the island sinking and the ultimate fate of the LOSties after the island has sunk concurrently? This theory would help explain how Desmond could be on the plane. Somehow he gets involved with with events before the island sinks.
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Just sayin.
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"Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”
"
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
Remove spaces -
How would you explain all the dead 815ers alive on the plane?
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First, hi guys. Long time no see. Good to be back with you for what I expect to be an excellent ending to this journey.
Second, what a mind fuck of an episode. I must have had the most puzzled look on my face sitting there watching it. I totally loved it though, and am very interested in the new "device" they are using to further the story.
I read a lot of what's above, but not all. That being said, I'm not sure about what we're seeing being an alternate timeline. I think it's more about showing us that the actions we take have consequences - intended or not. I think it's about choices we make affecting us and those around us. I think it's about as hard as we may try to change things, our previous actions, choices, and the consequences of those shape what's yet to come.
Apply this to what we saw last night. Jack got nervous and Rose didn't when the plane shook. Even though she probably didn't remember that this had happened before, she was calm because inside she knew if it did it'd be okay. Jack was nervous because he didn't want the consequences over again.
You can apply this to a lot of what we saw, I think, but I may be wrong. Can the shoice of exploding the bomb alternate Desmond's previous timeline to the point where he's on the plane? Dunno. maybe he made a different choice that put him there.
While this is my theory, I would be happy to be proven wrong becuase I'm totally enjoying this journey that is LOST. -
but we weren't aware of them living in the ruins. And for now, I am ASSUMING these are "purist" inhabitants, and while they were seen briefly at the "other's" camp...weren't those others(BEN/JULIET/MRS.KLU) pretending to be the purists?(they really just conducting fertility experiments). I assume they are 2 different groups.no?
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but we weren't aware of them living in the ruins. And for now, I am ASSUMING these are "purist" inhabitants, and while they were seen briefly at the "other's" camp...weren't those others(BEN/JULIET/MRS.KLU) pretending to be the purists?(they really just conducting fertility experiments). I assume they are 2 different groups.no?
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I never said Jack should have been the first to go into the hole to check on Juliet. My point is that they had no idea to what extent Juliet was injured and Jack, being a doctor, should have gone into the hole with Sawyer to check on her.
Furthermore, they just had moved a bunch of debris to clear a path to go into the hole. Maybe she was under more debris. It's stupid that Sawyer went in alone while a doctor stood outside. -
isn't what *would* have happened, but what *could* have happened. there are a couple things (like Des) that make me go "Uh Buh!?", but its basically showing what other crappy things they could have had to deal with if the crash had never happened. We haven't even begun to see how that all plays out, or how it all resolves at the end. I have no damn idea, but thats the fun, isn't it?
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All the unnamed ones, like 30 of them. Where are they now?
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Jacob gave Hurley the Guitar case, with that note in the Ankh(sp?) Which means he knew all along this would happen. Jacob wanted to tell Ben he has a choice, but Jacob knew Ben would kill him, because that's how it's meant to be.
This is the smell of the Matrix all over it.
Desmond is the only one who has been able to go outside the rules and I bet it's Desmond who is the Wildcard and doesn't have a true Destiny which Jacob and the MIB don't know what's going to happen with him in the mix.
Desmond = Neo -
Obviously in the other timeline they are on the plane and now in LA.
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Even though everyone has a choice, they already have their Destiny laid out in front of them, choice is a illusion.
Jacob has been waiting for one person to change that and that person is Desmond. -
Fuckin A dude, seen all this shit before. A poignant return in slow motion set to Giacchnio's score. Primitive dressed people with rifles who no one has the temerity to ask what is going on of. Show is horseshit. Time travel & alternate realities are in there just so they can deal with the fact they had no idea where they were going.
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****Spoiler, do not read below*****
Jacob has a child and I'm willing to bet it's Desmond.
****End Spoiler**** -
I'm reserving predictions until things play out. Ya know, like not jump the gun and go running off into the jungle.
No, this is a Sawyer approach, sit down, read, take it in and make a more thought through opinion of LA X.
I did like getting a few answers and finally seeing the Temple. -
I was RELIEVED they just said "ok" and did it. That seems more realistic than them being all skeptical. I fucking hate the fictional trope where characters refuse to believe far-fetchedl shit even after being slapped in the face with it extensively (hello corporate shmuck in Avatar!)Anyway I myself was skeptical going into this episode, knowing there was gonna be an alternate reality, which I usually hate. But it seems there may be something interesting at work here, and also it's a great way to have the characters re-interact. I remember when the show first started the mysteries were compelling but I loved the character stuff even more.
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fuck. off.
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...it's from Henry V. And though a little quoting is good for the soul I've found that excessive quoting usually comes from folks who've had a little learning but have very little of their own to bring to the party. They use excessive quotes to try to try to lay some sort of intellectual claim to the big thoughts behind what they're quoting. Still, quoting isn't always a bad thing. All things in moderation, yeah?
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I'm pretty sure all of the other 815 survivors are dead, from being shot, blown up, and hit with flaming arrows during the time hopping of the first couple episodes of season 5. All that remained were Rose and Bernard.
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.... and I say that for the very reason that a huge amount of debris had fallen into the hole no more than one person should have initially gone inside. And though generally I'm pretty okay with differences of opinion, in this case, where there was no way of knowing what might shift, what might fall, what kind of conditions would be encountered...sorry, but I'm right. The person who goes down to check can always call for others to follow. In this case the person who went in was communicated with and answered in a manner that indicated he did not want assistance. Nope, still not seeing it.
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Someone may have asked about this connection, but there are far too many posts to wade through: I think Desmond not being on the plane has to do with Charlie not dying...not dying in the non-crash timeline = something effecting those in the crash timeline?
I am really racking my brain and have not watched it as closely the whole time like some of you, but wasn't it basically Desmond or charlie who would die and Charlie basically died in place of Desmond? So now, in the non-crash timeline you either have Charlie, or you have Desmond...not both?
I am hoping for some help here from people more in the know than me! -
"Seriously, who spends 24 straight HOUR on a Talkback continually trashing the same fuckin' show over and over again?" You got me, there... So who is it?
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Except, done 100% better than that game was! We just need one guy who can hop back and forth between worlds...
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I mean Desmond not being in the seat when Jack comes back from saving Charlie in the non-crash timeline....
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In Chrono Cross (sequel to Chrono Trigger, a game where you traveled through time to save the world from a catastrophic event) the main hero character and the main bad guy character switch bodies for a big portion of the game. So, the bad guy is running amok in the good guy's body, doing all kinds of evil shit.
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After Jack comes back from saving Charlie. Whatever that means...
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What a phenomenal episode. Good to see you back on the boards, RB. I'm even more confused than ever. I had assumed what we were seeign i nthe flashes was an alternate reality in which the plane simply didn't crash on the island, but obviously it's much more complicated than that.
The island being destroyed/underwater was a jaw dropping game changer of the highest degree. Now I have no idea what is going on and that's damn well the way it should be.
Desmond being on 815 threw me for a loop as well. Did Jack recognize him from the island or from the jog? Is Des there because "the rules don't apply to him" and he's "uniquely and miraculously special?" And what is up with Christian's body disappearing? Hurley's good luck? Lots of perplexing things going on in these flashes.
Thank fiber that Sayid is alive but is he now going to be "Other-ized" like Ben and Rousseau's team?
All the character moments were brilliant. Sawyer's goodbye to Juliet, Hurley with the gun, Flocke and Ben, and the Jack Locke baggae claim scene was freaking awesome. I never even connected the dots that Locke is paralyzed and Jack is a spinal surgeon and that this might come into play down the road. Fucking brilliant Darlton! Serious kudos on that one. Can't wait for more! -
... an Other.
MIND.BLOWN!! -
I don't know about that ... Hurley says - sincerely I'm pretty sure - that he's "the luckiest guy in the world".
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"...generally I'm pretty okay with differences of opinion..."
"...sorry, but I'm right."
Thanks for letting me know that generally you tolerate differences of opinion. As with many people here, there's no point in trying to discuss Lost with you. I've lost interest.
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The emotional weight of Juliet's sacrifice and death was driven in the ground (pun intended) from having to watch it repeatedly tonite. Did get to see her say sonofabitch approx 4 times on network TV in about 10 minutes tonite. Nice.
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It looks like Sayid is going to be Jacob's vessel, although I thought the Statue shadow people were keeping Lapidus around for that.
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When they were running around the tunnels under the wall, the whole time I was thinking, "Sleestaks! Watch out for Sleestaks!"
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Good to see you here too. Kinda like deja vu all over again. Or did we just set the reset button? All I know is that last night was the bomb...so to speak.
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ever seen Patrick McGoohan's The Prisoner? Over 40 years since it was made and people are still discussing that show, speculating over the unanswered questions and offering their interpretations. That's one of the reasons that show is remembered. Give away all the answers and the show loses its attraction just like when a magician reveals how a trick is done.
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I am not sure he is Jacob. But I do think he is an important character this season. Also remember MiB did not use Locke's body and we do not know if he inhabited Jack's dad body yet. Maybe they are not capable of doing that. Aw who the fuck knows anymore lol.
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Kimmel speculated Jacob had taken over Sayids body...to which Darlton paused for a moment...and then said that he wasnt being taken over..by jacob. They inferred that his theory was on the right track, but would evolve. I think its Juliet. I don't know why, but I don't think its Jacob. They basically said Sayid was no longer just Sayid, but that he also wasnt Jacob, he was someone else. Verrry interesting, but just wanted to let those people speculating Sayid now is Jacob...it was addressed directly on Kimmel last night, and expressly stated that *wasnt exactly* correct.
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They also said on Kimmel last night that Locke wasnt "possessed" by MiB, he was just assuming the form. Lockes body is right there on the beach, dead. Dead is Dead, remember? Our Locke will not be back. He was played. MiB and Jacob don't "possess" bodies, I don't think. MiB, certainly, can assume the form of any dead person, which is why Locke had to die. But hes not physically using his body, and I don't think Jacob will be using Sayids either. I don't even think Jacob plays the "showing up as dead people" game...doesn't seem his style. Anything with death is MiB. I think he is Death.
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Ok thanks for that. Well if you look at the episode last year where the Others took Ben and healed him Richard said "He will never be the same". So I guess the same will happen to Sayid.
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Black and white. Life and death. The pieces on a chessboard. The pieces on the game from the pilot. Those themes have been there from the start.
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...it's because it's not a matter of opinion, but thanks for hitting the eject button. Now, in some rescue operations the two-in/two-out method is used. This is done in situations where there is enough chaos that a single person, entering the hazardous area on their own, could be injured and would then have to be located themselves. That was not the case in this situation. The two out in that example, by the way, refers to two more rescue workers who are standing by to enter the area of danger if the "two-in" call for help. In a case with a limited area to be searched, a single victim and the danger of further injury being caused by shifting debris it is most common to use a single searcher, with backup. There are of course variants on this for different situations. If there had been the possibility of multiple routes to reach Juliette a triangulation or left-right search could have been conducted. Anyway, the reason I said I was right is because you shifted your argument from one based on what these people, in this situation should have done to some sort of generic "what should be done in case of emergency" thing once I confronted you about the emotional end of the equation. And about the technical searching situation you retreated to you are just wrong. And even more wrong for wanting to introduce the only medical professional on the scene to the hazardous and still fluid rescue area. And even so, if you can tell me why I'm not right about all this (and why the folks who rescue people professionally are wrong), I'd be glad to listen.
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Maybe not "taken over" (the pause kind of suggested to me he was trying to be very specific about the language of the question), but maybe "added to". Like Jacob contributes part of his life force so now they're mostly still themselves, but a little bit of Jacob, i.e., "something else".
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Hahaha, yeah, after the 4th time I was thinking if every "flash sideways" was prefaced with Juliette's death scene it was going to get a little tedious.
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"Scorn and defiance...Yea, you're right. That shit makes perfect sense. My bad."
Good lord..you really are a child..or not well read..
Hey, dumb ass. Its from 'Henry V' written by that English guy.. you know..yeah..that one..ah.
Well..no point in pointing out the same such familiar similarity of Hugo (Falstaff) to James (Hal) is there..yeah. did not think so.
I swear to God's under bits.. every kid born-ed since 1984..well, just dumb. I'm a liquored up fool, sure. But these chitlins are just..
dumber-er. and spoiled. Exception. Any BSD who has been over there. -
have to concur with those seeing Christian themes on the show. The most blatant would be Sayiid's 'baptism' in the pool. A very literal depiction of what is typically a symbolic rite.
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My point is your arbitrary quoting of Shakespeare, or any other poet, literary figure, etc, is pretenious posturing and unconnected bullshit. You're just trying to act smarter than everyone. Ooooh wow, you can quote shakespeare and insult the generation younger than you. Clearly, you are the genius we have all been waiting for. Quoting Shakespeare makes you a well read genius huh? Too bad, no matter who you quoted it from, none of it has ANYTHING TO DO WITH LOST. I'm not talking about anything besides lost. You honestly want to believe I haven't read shakespeare? Fine, like I care. I'm was a Theater and Film Studies double major. Your statement is an impossibility for me to have graduated...but sure, I'll play the role for you...Henry The V? Who? Whaaa? Please, enlighten me, youre so much smarter.
You're a jerkoff pal. An elitist jerkoff. Except, it comes with the caveat that despite your depth of knowledge, you clearly dont understand a single thing about any of it means. -
but wow, wow, I love Lost, awesome start
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Like a true fuckhead. Typing incomplete sentences and then expecting us to follow your massive leaps in logic. Oooo, look at he mysteriously doesn't finish his sentences. He must have thought of something I didn't.
You're posts are incoherent nonsense. I don't care about how smart you are, what you quote, or what you think you know. Your ability to express yourself is destroyed by inability to complete sentences.
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That was awesome. Ha ha ha...I can't wait to read what that d-bag troll comes up with....BRAVO!
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was very very cool, though I want to see him pull out a katana
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Forgot about that part. This season is going to be nuts.
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Christian, but by way of myth/theological archetypes. Hell the whole island underwater is clearly a spin on "the flood", the purging and "rebirth" which is of course Christian, but also Sumerian, Babylonian, etc.
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I really hope we get to see him really unleash his shit this season.
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Feb 03, 2010 10:51:42 AM CST
@Olivier Hague ..hey look. The cock crowed..and the Douche awoke
by macfaux
1000 posts in and Oli..please
..please tell us one and all how stupid LOST is..
I need some ridiculous assertions to go with my Champagne brunch.. I already have my ridiculous assertions..
So, add that to the idiocracy of Crow and Champ...Your idget could if you could, throw a lil tobasco on the stupid skillet I think... I might get stuffed.
*snicker* -
just absolutely incredible moments, it really felt like "this is the last season, hang on and don't let go"
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The most emotional I got last night was when Jack tried to stand up to Dogan at the end right before Sayid woke up. I was like, "Yeah Jack. Who does this fucker think he is." I'm still Jack guy. Sue me.
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I am leaning towards no
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Feb 03, 2010 10:56:38 AM CST
LA X reminded me ALOT of Silent Hill 1 and Shattered Memories!!!
by ashokforgiven
Anyone here fans of Silent Hill for PSX or Silent Hill: Shattered Memories for Wii??? Imho any LOST fan would most likely really enjoy the writing in these games. Lots of layered storytelling and symbolism. That being said, the latest game for Wii reminded me ALOT of LA X!!!
****SILENT HILL SPOILERS****
At the end of Silent Hill 1 for PSX there is a "good" ending where you live and a "bad" ending where you end up dying in a car crash. Silent Hill 2/3 follows the "good" ending of the first game. In Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, the story follows the "bad" ending and presents a "what if" scenario where the character from Silent Hill 1 died in the car accident.
There's been alot of speculation on the SH fan sites on why or what caused the universes "split" in Shattered Memories. I've seen alot of theories on the Silent Hill boards relating to Schroeder's Cat and quantum suicide.
*****END SPOILERS********
So yeah, I'm really got a Silent Hill vibe when watching LA X!!!
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I say. THROW. IN. THE. FUCKING. TOWEL !!!!
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Quote: "temple was introduced 3 years ago".Yeah, I was essentially reminded of that by other people earlier in the Talkback, dipshit. The problem is, we never saw the temple to this extent. Furthermore, we got dealt a whole new slew of characters (and a magical fountain/pool!) that conveniently step forward late in the game to provide a method with which to resolve the show's increasing silliness.Look, I'm still a "fan" of the show and I'm committed to watching it to its conclusion. But that doesn't mean the show is above criticism - and I definitely feel this premier is worthy of that criticism.
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For your name if nothing else..see above. "English on my tongue is bitter.."
Tell me you haven't heard that? I have heard some such similar on Okinawa. -
Feb 03, 2010 11:02:31 AM CST
reading Talisman at the moment by Stephen King &Peter Straub
by miyamoto_musashi
and so far enjoying it.
love how the main character's name is Jack Sawyer.
I love the parallel world, and watching Lost I wonder if there will be any cross over by someone between the two timelines. -
And if he disappeared off the plane, does that make him more of a variable than constant? Maybe he'll just keep showing up at various moments like Roomfoord in Vonnegut's SIRENS OF TITANS.
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have heard some comments like that, your Japanese writing is much better than mine, need to get the wife to translate some of your posts
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Jack refusing to bow down.. I also found inspiring..
But. I must admit I also enjoyed ...appreciated.. how quick he went down when he challenged Sanada-san.
What a great get for casting..The stories of the lone Japanese soldier on a Pacific island are mythical.
If only Toshiro Mifune and Lee Marvin were on the Island... Somethin would get broke-ed. -
Cause, you know, along with Shakespeare, I've never seen a Kurosawa film. I was born after 1982...making me unable to appreciate classic arts. You're like...a god dude. You know everything.
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No offense but in S1-5 I really don't see any reason why the characters would have even gone to the Temple period.
I think too many people view LOST from the perspective of the audience timeline, where 6 years have spanned from the Pilot to LAX. "What, after 6 years no one bothered to go to the Temple?" Where in the LOST universe, the Losties have only been on a huge island for a matter of months. Hiking to EVERY major landmark in such a short timespan wouldn't just be silly, it would be absurd. -
Didn't see that comin. Still. Your call sign is grand..and you, just speculatin here, obviously got some hottie on the island to marry you..so
You got it goin on..and your all right now. Sanada-san! ..just love typin that. -
Good God, why?
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I wanna hug him. Shirtless... He was really great in Sunshine.
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Im thinking everything is connected, that is always was and this alternate reality always happened and we are going to see how it affected the original time line all along
but looking at it this way, if they changed the time line and their plane never crashed then that also means in this alternate universe they never traveled back through time means they never detonated the bomb
which means the reason the island was on the bottom of the sea is likely because when the dharma initiative first hit the pocket of electromagnetic energy destined to become the hatch it probably detonated and destroyed the island
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Hahaha, when I saw him the first thing I thought of was "Kaneda...what do you see?"
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"I'm was a Theater and Film Studies double major. Your statement is an impossibility for me to have graduated"
Ok. All your smart are belong to us...
Its a talkback. a node, man. I break your balls ..roll with it, kid. Again, you started it.. what do you care what I type. Have to ask again..are you pretty?
Sorry, sorrrrry. I apologize. You are not dumb. Obviously. That much is known.
I mean you are a Theater and Film Studies double major ..so you are not dumb. just a pussy. Sorry, kid, I did it again..can't help myself. -
That all of the subtle differences between the Pilot episode and last night's flight are intentional (...such as Cindy giving Jack only ONE bottle of vodka, Jack being a nervous flier, etc...). Interesting!
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Feb 03, 2010 11:35:35 AM CST
Don't they typically make you read Shakespeare in High School?
by thunderbolt ross
Not to pile on, but most people have read Shakespeare I think.
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I think I would agree with those who say Lost is a combination of many religious ideas, but I would assume based on all the imagery that Egyptian religion is more prevalent. It makes sense that Christian ideas would seem to inspire the ideas in the show because Egyptian religion inspired early Judaism which was then inspired by Babylonian religion, specifically Zoroastrianism. All of these ideas are mixed into Christianity, which also borrows heavily from Egyptian mystery religions that believed in the death and resurrection and worship of deities in order to obtain salvation.
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Or something...Whoever MIB, Jacob, and False Locke are, they are trapped in it just as much as the humans. I think the show is an explanation of the consequences of time travel. It's always bothered me in movies when the characters assume, "If we do x, then y will never happen and therefore none of this will happen to us!" Because the logic sort of folds in on itself. If y never happens, then the characters weren't there to do x. Perhaps the show is about the consequences of meddling with time. Yes, you do prevent y from happening, but you also create another parallel universe to patch the "hole". Anyone who lands on the island gets caught up in the vortex created by the paradoxes...even powerful beings like Jacob and MIB. i think Jacob believed he could work out the puzzle and undo or solve the paradox in a way that would not disrupt the universe further. MIB doesn't give a shit and just wants to solve enough of it to escape. Jacob disagrees and thinks they should solve the problem of the island completely. Anyway...that's my theory. Who knows if any theory we come up with will be correct? I just hope they don't cop out at the end with a this-explanation-explains-all-the-weirdness scenario like "it was all a dream" or "The island is an alien experiment".
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I was thinking the same thing. Locke saw the monster and saw something beautiful. This has never really made sense considering weve only seen the monster as a big black pillar of smoke that mutilates people.
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If I'm going to let you in on any more of my life, I'll say I'm an actor. Not famous, obviously, but I work. And tonight, I have a show, that I get paid to be in, which gives me a reason to be on the internet talking about lost all day. Whereas you, on the other hand, being born in the golden age of pre-1982 and being a "non-pussy", must be old enough to require to have a real job, where you must be so incredibly important that they let you troll AICN talkback "nodes" all day long. Wow. You must be reallllly important.
So yea...I'll be a pussy, the way Mifune was just a pussy actor also, over being utterly inconsequential any day. If I'm a pussy for being a Film and Theater major, then you must be a total badass who plays football all day or something I guess? (grunt grunt?) Or you're the kind of pussy who calls artists pussies while dedicated their lives to consuming culture like lost, and kurosawa films, and quoting shakespeare in your spare time without having the balls to create some art on your own. Jeez man, I am such a pussy. The way I participate in, as well as watch and enjoy the fruits of the labors of more successful artists in the same business as me. A big stinky pussy right here. -
"I want't to go home"
Fucker grooved one over the plate like Bacsik to Bonds.
Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies. Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain... Show me the way to go home. I'm tired and I want to go to bed. I had a little drink bout an hour ago and it's gone right to my head. Wherever I may roam, by land or sea or foam. You can always hear me singin' this song, show me the way to go home, bome bome bome. Show me the way to go home. bome bome bome. I'm tired and I want to go to bed. I had a little drink about an hour ago and it's gone right to my head. Wherever I may roam, by land or sea or foam. You can always hear me singin this (ya know Sawyer sang it too...)
"Start the engines. Fire her up!"
"Busted a shaft!"
"Chief! Put out the fire will ya?"
"He ate the light."
"Terrific."
There was a Dharma shark in 6.1!
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Er, yeah, I hope not too.
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Well said sir.
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its about a ghost that goes back in time for some reason!
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in purgatory. Duh!
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I'm old. retired, this year. at liberty and I do as I please. I goof if I want (on you, obviously, but too easy) ..and have as the story goes..
..drunk more beer and banged more quiff and pissed more blood and stomped more ass..than you'll think about in 'actin' class in five lifetimes..
You'll want to stop now. declare victory and retire from the field.. before I really really make you look an ever bigger bitch than you have all ready clowned yourself up as. -
some people are havin the same theories as me (lax is a result of what happens after the reg timeline ends)... but mark my words the o6 bein split up in time will be apart the reason why christian and lockes knives are missing in lax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Fine. You win. Enjoy retirement and then death.
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There are 2 timelines only. Last night we saw the original 2007 and the alternate 2004.
The moment before her death, Juliet was hovering between the two timelines. "It worked" means there is now (since the nuke) a reality where the plane never crashed.
The shot of the island underwater was a continuous shot from the plane to the ocean floor. In the alternate 2004, the island has been sunk for 27 years.
2 other thoughts:
A nuke wouldn't cause time to split, but the energy pocket may have sucked the nuclear blast into itself and that may have been the extra boost it needed to fracture time. I'm guessing the pocket runs deep enough to crap the blast out near the ocean floor, knocking out whatever was holding the island up (an underwater mountain, presumably) and allowing the surface to sink to the bottom in tact.
Remember the scene in Ghost when Demi and Whoopi kiss? Who will bet me that Sawyer and Sa'id make out before this is all over? -
anyone notice coincidentally sayid helped wit cpr and was the one to recieve it? charlie aint the focus sayid is (no point of sayid bein there to help in lax)
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In 1977 when Jack and Co. detonated the nuke, they sunk the island and everyone still on it to the bottom of the sea.
Where were the others during this time? Is Chalres Widmore dead? Does that mean he never sired Penny? What does this mean to Mr. Ecko whose brother's plane now never crashes on the island. What does this mean for Rousseau's ship? I like this premiere the more I think about it because I completely forgot the image of the island at the bottom of the sea that they ended the tease with and its clearly the most important factor of the alterna-815 storyline.
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will choose sawyer in the end ... kinda weird to see her not communicate wit jack that much inthe ep
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Actually seeing them on the other hand is new information. Mr. Nice Gaius and others clearly haven't been paying attention or they'd know that both have been brought up for seasons they just haven't been shown until recently. This is not the same as "inventing" it for the plot and using it to tie things up. It's been in the mythology for seasons now. I know one thing is for sure. This is not going to have a shitty ending like BSG. At least Lost's writers planned ahead instead of introducing weird shit without thinking it through like BSG's writers did.
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I dont know what to say here, but old or young you arent amusing and sound like a real douchebag. This is a fucking talkback man, no one gives a shit whether youve "earned" the right to be pretentious. Right now you just seem like a large, fat, greasy fanboy typing away at his keyboard, chuckling over his wittiness. I'm glad you are so monumentally intelligent, but goddamn, if there is one thing that annoys me to high hell its someone with a smirk. No one thinks its cute. Its just stupid.
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if jack caused the sinkin how are they on a nonunderwater island in the future(reg time 07)?
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the nuke just sent jack n co back to the right timeline where later on they will have to sink it
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Everything that has happened since '77 will be different in small and big ways in the alternate timeline. Endless fodder for the sideways flashes. I hope they find an enormously creative way to merge the two lines in the end.
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Love the talkback, but don't have the time to go through all of it, so if I'm rehashing old ground, sorry...
Two things I loved about last night's show- 1, MIB/Locke leaving the temple and telling Jacob's followers "I'm dissapointed in all of you". Fascinating choice of words.
2- If MIB/Jacob truly represent evil/good as it seems so far, is Ben's character arc not a more compelling version of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader??? I see so many similarities, if MIB was really manipulating Ben the whole time. Not saying this was intentional, just pointing it out because it made me weep at the memory of what Lucas actually put on screen vs. how well crafted this seems -
They were transported at the beginning of the big boom, the timelines split during the boom and the island sank right after, I suppose. It all happened very fast, but if the time travel was triggered even a millisecond before the split, they would still be in the original timeline.
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tell me if my theory has any holes in it? freakin macfaux pretentious ass is takin all the attention away from my genius theory
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I think one think to make clear is that even though this is an alternate timeline, it is by no means a "blank slate". There are obvious tells that indicate that the new timeline is still being affected by the original one. This new reality was in existence at the same time the first one did (fucking time is confusing) and I think a lot of what we are saying, and have seen, has been a bleeding of the two realities into each other.
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if nuke sank the island, how did they get transport to a nonsank island guys? the island has not sank yet but will later in 07
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No, I've been paying attention, dude. FYI - I've been with the show since day one. And while Jacob was introduced BY NAME a couple of seasons ago, it still feels really contrived to finally show him at the last minute of the last season to have him magically lay the groundwork of the entire series in one random episode. I say it's simply a matter of writing convenience; much like the new Temple-ites. Doesn't mean that I have to like how it has been handled simply because it's "old news".
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not iago.
The must have time-traveled before the split occurred. -
not only did Alpert say that Ben would never be the same, remember that before they did it to Sayid the Jap said something similar to: "there will be consequences if we do this"
so obviously we are going to see a different Sayid for one reason or another -
But how can it be a contrivance and cheap to introduce him "so late in the game" when his very first scene makes such a great deal of the series almost instantly make sense? It would be what you say it is if he had retcon-ed things and forced answers that don't fit...but that first scene where he was introduced, on the beach, through brief and cryptic dialogue, made so many aspects of the show shine perfectly clear to me. It fit thematically, as well as plot wise. And I don't know why you think its dumb to introduce him "so late" when, for one, in my opinion, it really isnt THAT late...there were still 19 hours left when we first met him, and you don't offer a reason or place where you tihnk he should have been introduced. If the writers needed 19 hours to introduce him and use him to make the story of our survivors make sense, then that is what they needed. It seemed like the perfect time to me. Don't forget, the story of LOST is the story of our survivors, those people on Oceanic 815. No matter how many other people they introduce, where or when they go, and what they do...the story begins, and will end, with the character arcs of OUR survivors. There are many other stories in the LOST universe I'm sure, but they aren't the ones we're watching. The show isn't going to end with the resolution of Jacobs story, but with the resolution of Jack and Locke, most specifically, followed by kate sawyer, sayid, hugo, jin/sun, and claire. So, how can it be cheap to introduce a character that resolves their arcs, not replaces it?
Sorry. Not to attack at all, just my opinion. I don't want to start another fight with a MacF...hewhowillnotbenamed. -
If the losties had never gone back in time then it would have been the bomb that cause the island to sink, it would have been the incident when the dharma initiative cracked into the electromagnetic energy.
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Remember purgatory? Aliens? Death? Remember Atlantis? Now what did we see last night?
Island underwater. Atlantis?
Smoke Monster Locke saying he wanted to go home. Alien?
2 different "realities. 1 heaven, 1 hell?
Years ago I said that sometimes I think they had an idea they pitched to the studio that was we have a mystery that will get the talkbacks going, and from that we can build a show that will keep fan's interest while all along building to the ending we have.
I don't believe that now, but sometimes I do think they do things like what I just mentioned to show us they are paying attention.
Sometimes. -
If I understand what you're saying, you've got it wrong. If the losties had never gone back in time, then Dharma would have built the swan station (hatch) complete with button to contain the energy pocket, just as they did in the original timeline. The incident is not the same as the island sinking.
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Sorry but I'm not seeing anything "contrived" by waiting until Season 6 to raise the curtain on Jacob and the Temple. Thematically, it makes perfect sense. Logically, it does flow naturally with the storyline with no retconning involved. Plus, geez... yeah, we're nearing the end but this IS a television series, not a Hollywood film installment. We have 12+ hours to go.
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what an premier!!! what a head melter...
i think our character, one in non crash plane world and the other on craphole Island will face similiar trials and tribualations and we will get to see how they deal with these trails in the 2 different settings(realities)....
will our non plane crash losties (aka the landies) make the correct choices, the right choices or will our Losties who have been through, death, time travel, torture, trails and tribulations be the ones to make the right choices...
i think the stories will mirror each other much like they did in season 1.....
How awesome was 'Locke' in last nights episode....it was good to see the fear in Richards make up'd eye's as well.....Alena's people didnt last too long again Smokie, and James Ezra Sharkingtons most welcomed return...so many answers yearned for and soo little time....gotta love it...it was a spectacular premier and even the falshback sound changed a bit...the excellence continues.....I tip my hat to Darlton and the team again -
Some of you guys act like unless they SHOW it, it doesnt happen!!
Do we all assume they never take a shit?? (cause they dont show it?)) -
Lost has never followed a conventional method of storytelling. We waited all through Season 1 before we finally saw the Others, waited all the way through season 2 before we REALLY found out about the others, and everything has slowly been unpacking this entire time. Hell, in Lord of the Rings (the book)aside from a big eye you never even see the main bad guy so its not like its the first time something similar has happened.
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start to stink and decompose, etc.? Why are bugs and insects not eating away at his corpse?
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We get to see more badass, con-man, 'lord of the flies' Sawyer before Juliet made him soft...It will be interesting to see what Oldschool Sawyer does in LA now... Does he follow Hurley and try to con him or does he somehow align himself with Kate or Locke (and find out about his father)...
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since he was in a Funeral Home, one would assume he has been embalmed, etc..
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When does that shit go up?
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Is not a monster, he is a slave from the Black Rock. He doesn't age because "Jacob made me this way".
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The nuke didn't have to "sink" the Island to make it appear at the bottom of the ocean.
What is an island? It's a mountain that's mostly underwater. And we already know that this mountain moves through time. But if it moves through time, it must also teleport through space, since the rest of the earth is moving through space. A mountain that disappears and reapppears in the same place in earth's orbit is going to find that the rest of the earth has travelled away down the orbit. Even a tiny blip in time will result in a huge displacement in space, enough to drop the island into the crust of the earth. -
Had to
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Another STAR WARS-esque reference from Darlton?
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Really quite beautiful.Got no problem with Jacob, MNG has been grumpy lately. Wait 'em out, he'll be back.
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loving it
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will Richard start to age...like Bilbo when he left the ring behind...
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I disagree. If the losties hadnt detonated the bomb i think they wouldnt have been able to contain the energy. I think the bomb and the energy pocket sort of cancelled each other out otherwise there would have been a huge nuclear crater where the hatch was in the future. I think the question is, and goes back to Desmond turning the failsafe key, is what would have happened if they HADNT blown the bomb. My guess, something about the nuclear explosion taught the Dharma initiative how to keep the energy in check which is why they turned the button every 108 minutes. Holy fuck.
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Holy fucking shit. Someone just said something awesome. What if the Sayid who was resurrected was the Sayid from the alternate universe pulled into the original universe? He might turn out to be some sort of key and the reason why Jacob wanted him brought back to life.
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This has not been discussed much but how the fuck did she know that "It worked"? This confused me more than most of what was presented to us.
And I look forward to seeing our old pal Faraday back. Something tells me he will play a big part in straightening this whole mess out, considering it was his idea to nuke the island to begin with. -
You're not following the story. It's too confusing for you if you don't understand the Locke/Jack scene. Stop watching.
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...but I’m going to take a winger here. And keep in mind, whereas I’m happy to be a little Mr. KnowItAll on matters historical and pop cultural I am not a science guy. But I’ve been having this debate with my wife since the show last night and wanted to float a bit of it here. Recently there’s been a new theory about alternate universes that posits that each of these alternate universes (you know, the one where take a shit guy takes the shit or decides to hold it or has an accident) are not separate universes, each requiring separate matter and all that hoo-ha, and are not truly bubble universes, in which alternate actions create temporary realities which are only ever so slightly different from each other and act like tributaries in a river, branching off and then rejoining a common flow. This theory says that individual units in a reality can be unfixed (the whole theory was designed to explain odd quark activity) and then fix themselves…in short (and I know this is crude and quite possibly not exactly correct) your fingernail may temporarily enter a reality where it did or did not catch on a loose thread. This doesn’t require endless possible realities but instead one reality that is in constant flux in mostly tiny ways, using the same matter and energy. My wife points to the Juliette moment in the episode last night as evidence that this is what is happening. As Juliette dies she is clearly sharing a consciousness with another version of herself. This wouldn’t happen in classic bubble theory, as the Juliette who existed here would stay here. Her energy and matter would simply cease and be reabsorbed into the reality she inhabited. But if the confluence of catastrophic incidents on the island caused some sort of fracture that created a temporary but large alternate loop, then Juliette could logically share consciousness with the Juliette who was not dying. She would in fact be subsumed into that consciousness when her aspect of the fracture was closed by her death. Her realization of this would also explain why she tried to tell Sawyer “it worked”. The implications of this would be that the fracture (what we see on the island) would have to be closed by the actions of the folks on the island or (seemingly less likely) the nature of the world outside the island would have to be changed to remove the folks we see on the island from the outside world. Which means that the conclusion of the show could be the end of activity on the island. Prosaic as that may be I think I’d hate that ending. Hence our “debate”.
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as you typed..that nonsense?..makes me a man? No. Nah, kid. That before was a CV ..you misunderstand.
Buddy, I wanna help you as you seem ..hmmpf.. LOST.
I feature you don't know..maybe your father didn't tell ya the 10 code.
I can only tell you what I know makes a Man...
01) Serve your responsibilities
02) Protect what you love with your life.
03) Serve all lesser than you as much as you can
04) Walk away. Avoid the fight. If you can't, hit first as hard as you can.
05) The way it is, is the way it is, don't whine about it.
06) If you have the ability to help, you have the responsibility to help
07) Don't wrong, Don't insult, Don't lay a hand on.
08) The only thing you truly own is your honor.
09) Be Respectful, Be Polite, Be Kind, Be Charitable
10) Count to...see 01)
Hope it helps..cause you seem lost.. -
...yeah, your point about the "it worked" line is exactly what inspired Tess to come up with the above theory.
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Kimmel's interview with the creators last night - this season is about consequence and how the 70s Lost ppl never looked at the full impact (pun intended) of detonating a bomb. If you really listen to them, you can learn a lot about the flavor of this season.
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I love the idea of Sayid being a link.
But I have to continue to disagree (not for disagreement's sake) about the bomb. Something the losties did caused there to be an alternate timeline where the plane never crashes. We take that to be the nuke. When the plane crashed in the pilot ep, they hadn't gone back yet to blow the nuke, so the condition of the hatch was what it would have been if Jack hadn't put his faith in Daniel's plan. The nuke only blew as a result of the plane crashing and some of its occupants traveling back and trying to change things. Well, they did change things, but not for themselves. The changed things for another version of themselves. Their original selves are left with the continuing original timeline in which the hatch was built and later blew up because Desmond didn't push the button. I agree there might not be a nuke-sized crater due the pocket sucking in the blast, but they seem to be saying that a new reality was created where the nuke went off, the island sank, and 815 never crashed. -
Ooooooo very interesting.
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Feb 03, 2010 1:35:49 PM CST
How come no one is commenting on what the stewardess said?
by googamooga
Did anyone else catch what the stewardess said when they first got in to the temple? Something like "they're from the first plane, like me".
The popular theory after last night is that there are two time-lines being shown. Another is that the time-line showing the losties on the plane is a not yet happened version of the present that will happen because of something we haven't seen yet, as opposed to being caused by the bomb. Neither explains what the stewardess said though. Didn't she die in the original crash? How did she get to the island to be a part of the other Others? Also, was I the only one to notice that they conspicuously did NOT show our losties seeing ANYONE else from the time-line they believe they are in? Makes me think they are somewhere else in time after the Swan blew up, maybe WAY after... -
The Temple was introduced in Season 3. It wasn't shown, but it was where Ben sent the rest of the others.
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not genius. derivative and full of holes.
sorry.
But as valid as anyone else here. -
I'm looking forward to the episode dealing with it because right now it's a complete mystery. The show and the first ARG insinuate it was a mining vessel (dynamite) but if so, what was it mining? Gold? Electromagnetic pockets of energy? Was it normal for a mining ship to have slaves shackled up? Or were they prisoners or indentured servants of some kind?
But then conflicting information comes in TSOTTC in which an auctioneer sells the ship's first mate's journal saying the Black Rock set sail from Portsmouth, England on March 22, 1845 on a TRADING MISSION to the Kingdom of Siam. Was that just a cover? And how did the journal come to be off the island? -
Feb 03, 2010 1:40:20 PM CST
If alternate universes existed because of alternate actions
by thunderbolt ross
The number of different universes would be infinite. It's mind-boggling to consider, but also a goofy idea, borne out of romanticism but when you really think on it is it very romantic that every time a subatomic particle zigs instead of zags or zigs slightly less than it might have, an entire discrete reality is evident? It just becomes redundant.
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Well heres the thing. If the Losties had never crashed they would never have gone back in time, wouldnt have known about jughead, and also would not have been able to be there when the incident happened to detonate the bomb. I dont think Faraday was being entirely honest. I dont think he really believed that anything could be changed, I think he realized that detonating the bomb would create the alternate reality, a reality where Charlotte would never have gone to the island and never died. I think he realized how everything was fitting together. If the Losties had never been at the incident site to detonate the bomb, I think the result would have been catastrophic and the island would have imploded, collapsed in on itself.
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Over the course of the last 5 years, there have been a few moments where it seems like someone would have asked a question or something, but that's not the case with these episodes. Basically, why wouldn't Hurley agree with Jacob and why would the otheers be skeptical of Hurley. The actions fit the established characterization perfectly.
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Too much Lipstick and Stockings to be invited back. Sure she did Sayid, but did she really progress as a person before dying? Or did she just allow herself to sleep with non-whites? That is not really character progression.
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the same alternate reality from the fringe world.link the two shows. why not?
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2 planes did crash on the Island, well near the island. Ajira crashed on the other island.
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Cindy the stewardess was in the tail section when 815 crashed. She was kidnapped by the others.
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For that to be the case, the losties must always have gone back and detonated the nuke in order for them ever to have crashed. You would be telling me that when they originally stumbled upon the hatch, they were finding a station that could only have been created because they themselves had already been there in '77 to prevent an island-sinking catastrophy. If that's what the show wants us to accept about the nature of time, I'll roll with it, but to me it seems they are telling us that in the original line, Dharma drilled too far and were forced to pour concrete in the hole they drilled and construct the station around it with a button mechanism. That is still what happened for the original-line losties, but not for the alternate losties who flew over the sunken island.
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Not gonna happen though :/
And googamooga... no, Cindy the stewardess did not die in the first crash, she was part of the tail sectioners. -
I don't post all that often, but I wanted to add at least something to this soon-to-be epic length talkback.
First, I loved the premier. The only thing I even remotely agree on with what some of the negatives posts are that throughout the series it would have been great to see at least a few more scenes where characters question something. Hurley and the time travel bit with Miles was great, for example.
Still, none of that negates the fact this is my favorite television series since Babylon 5. Not since that time have I looked forward to 'next week' as much as I do with Lost. I've watched the entire series up to this point twice now (when it aired and on Blu-Ray).
Anyway, there are now, and seemingly always have been, people that insist they are sick of not getting answers. This is extremely confusing seeing as how we have *constantly* gotten answers throughout the entire show. I honestly believe there are many people that just forget some of the Big Questions that they thought, years ago, would "never be answered" and have been. I am not going to even begin to try to touch on them all, but some examples:
the French radio signal,
the polar bears,
why they crashed,
what the hatch is,
who The Others are,
what Dharma is,
how Desmond got to the island,
what the plane on the cliff side was and how it got there,
what happens if you don't press the button,
how the Others get to and from the island,
what/who the smoke monster is,
who is Jacob and does he exist,
what these 'lists' are,
Jack's dad on the island, Kate's horse, Eko's brother and many other people/things appearing,
the four toed statue,
why the Others wear fake clothing and have a fake village by the ocean,
what Sawyer and Kate were building for the Others when they were captued,
why 'Mr. Friendly' did not find Kate attractive (haha, then again, many do not),
if it was not Penny's boat then whose boat is it,
what's the deal with that blue van they find,
Those just came to mind, and I'm sure if I sat here I, and many other people, could come up with more. Each and every one of those were ENDLESSLY debated here and elsewhere, sometimes for years, many people insisting we would never get answers. And yet each and every single one of those has been answered.
It just appears that people forget what came before or do not have an answer for the one thing THEY want an immediate answer for, so they neglect all we have been given throughout the series. Like many of you, I have watched from day one and followed discussions here and elsewhere, and all of us can remember how gigantic the polar bear issue was at one time. Then, suddenly, and out of nowhere, it gets answered in a very easy way that even makes sense. This is how Lost has been and currently is - the answers do not appear as these huge moments, these AH-HA!! types of things. They just happen, sometimes answers are given, and you don't even know it was an answer until you think back on it.
I agree with some here in that there are people that for them Lost is just not the show to watch. It's too deep, too complex. There are tons of other programs, some good ones, that are probably more their speed. Lost requires some thought, and those answers you want so badly may have been given, and you did not even realize it. Still, others get those answers, so perhaps some need to rise to the level of the show instead of the show dumbing itself down for certain viewers.
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Feb 03, 2010 2:03:38 PM CST
googamooga, Cindy, the stewardess, was on the island the whole t
by mrhazard
She crashed with the rest of the people from the tail section (Ana Lucia, Eko, Libby), got captured by The Others in S2, and the last time she was shown (I THINK) was in S3.Jack sees her from his cell and she asks him how Ana Lucia is doing...
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Sorry for the horrid look of my post above. Ouch.
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when he said he wanted to go home, I presumed he meant be freed of the island.... whether that means just off the island, or a different planet entirely... I certainly didn't think he was referring to the temple as his home.
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Feb 03, 2010 2:09:05 PM CST
Why do people come on a talkback to argue how bad a show is?
by executor
Seriously. Truly asinine. Dissenting opinions are one thing, but to argue and argue about how horrible a show is, in the midst of people who like the show. You are not going to convince them. Here are a few other ways you can spend your time: go to an NAACP meeting and argue for the merits of the KKK.Go to the Simon Weisenthal Center and argue that the Jews are the bad guys and caused WWII, the Nazis were wronged.Go to West Hollywood with a "Yes on Prop 8" sign.Go to Indiana and convince them NASCAR sucks.Go the Playboy Mansion and convince Hef that monogamy rules.Go to anyone that knows you and try to convince them you're not a douchebag.Thank you.
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For paragraph breaks type
without the spaces. -
Thank you! Much appreciated.
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Did anyone else think that when Juliet asked Sawyer out for a coffee, she seemed to be in two different timelines / parallel universes while her body seemed to stay fixed in one "reality"... that was just like what Faraday's lab assistant experienced after one of his time travel what-not experiments? She was apparently crazy lying in bed talking to her dead father (?) or someone who was not there. Faraday tried to cure her but could not, her family hating him... Ah I cannot completely remember the details but I think somehow Juliet has the same experience of being in two places/universes at once: dieing in Sayer's arms while also asking LA X Saywer to go for coffee together...
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made me laugh, nice one.
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Jack's neck cut in the alt. What the shit was that about?
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Solution to the problem of the actor who plays Walt having matured a lot in the last few years: Hire a new, young, actor to play him. Problem solved. Worked for Darren in Bewitched, should work for Walt.
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why Rose and Bernard almost joined the mile high club. Is she no longer dying of cancer?
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That was helping Ben in the last season... I mean I assume she is just another 'Other' but still what was the point of that character???
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yes, very much so, and someone already posted a theory about the timeline's fracturing, and juliette simultaneously was in the new present and the old one.
Of course, it could have also just been brain damage , but the plots are typically too clever for something like that.
Anyway, the theory posits that you can repair the fractured timeline in their looped, semi-non-existent present -
I'd like to know more specifics about how that related to the temple.... whether that means possession like it would appear sayid might have undergone... Obviously i don't know, but its pretty clear that ben is ben, and not some mib/jacob type person.
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Walt is the one aspect of LOST that I have very little faith that they will make sense of. It just seems impossible. On one hand, I don't really care, bceause there are plenty of other things to make this a fantastic finale and wrap the show up satisfactorily. It doesn't REQUIRE Walt...but at the same times, it will be LOSTs one gaping flaw when all is said and done imo. It wouldn't matter so much IF Walt wasn't such an enormous part of the first two seasons. I mean, he was a core mystery. They found things more interesting to take his place...but seriously. He was psychic or something? He was "incredibly special." The Others "got more than they bargained for" when they took him? What the hell happened? How does any of that make any sense. It's unfortunate. And don't forget, basically everyone we have seen "projected" or in "ghost form" over the series has been dead, thus explainable by MiB posing...except Walt. He showed up, soaking wet, in the middle of the jungle. WHY? I don't believe Michaels story will ever make sense, nor why he was placed on the freighter and what he finally did that allowed him to finally die. I'm guessing he was manipulating by MiB same as Locke. MiB, being in some way connected to death, wouldn't let him die until he gave the okay. But, again, why! With Walt being probably 18 or 19 now, its almost impossible to imagine him coming back. Michael is exploded. Locke is dead. No one else gave a shit about Walt or Michael except those three people. These mystery will never be solved. Unless they somehow go into explaining why they took the children in the first place, and then go from there into why they took Walt later and what made him so special. But I don't anticipate seeing him again. The only other major thing I don't see being fully explained is all the sickness business, and how it ties to the pregnancy problem, etc. All that shit is the most convoluted thing about LOST, and my feeling is it was put in when they didn't know when they could end, and had to commit to it somehow with Juliets storyline. I don't know that anyone is going to explain the sickness or what exactly drove the french team insane..especially when you consider that Rousseau is reportedly not returning this season...which is another disappointment in its own way. So, I'm not trying to be negative...I'm just saying, not that it bothers me that much, my enjoyment of the final season will not be hampered, but when its all said and done I think we all be pointing to Walt as the one biggest thing that never ended making sense. But who knows, maybe Darlton will shut me the fuck up with something brilliant down the line. It could happen.
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are in 2007.. things are different, Jack's hair is longer, people seem older.. it's the same flight, yes, but it's parallel with 2007 on the island.. a flash sideways.. so I'm guessing they never got on the plane in 2004..
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people seem older, because they ARE older. Last night's scenes were filmed 6 years after the pilot.
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people seem older, because they ARE older. Last night's scenes were filmed 6 years after the pilot.
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i'm not writing the show.. I just didn't see any evidence of it being 2004..
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Desmond was hte one who turned the failsafe Key and Des was the main one to experience the effects of the time travel, Locke lost his voice and Eko ended up shagging a Polar Bear...
Juliette triggered the bomb and maybe she was the only one to truely experince the parallel timeline...Saywer was her Constant of sorts....so maybe Juliette had a Desmond like reaction from being the one to trigger the incidents..only Des could see the future and travel on and off Island and Juliette could co exist consoiusly in both universes -
I think you're not giving the show much of a chance, there is a VERY good chance they will explain the sickness AND the children, and to presume otherwise is to be pessimistic, IMO ... now the likelihood of seeing walt again is slim (seeing as hes the younger version in both current presents), but that doesnt mean those other things will never be sufficiently explained... And I think they know that MANY people would be hugely disappointed if those things weren't explained.
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no shit, thanks for the history lesson.. it's just a theory.. could also open the door to bring Walt back to the fold as being older..
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it could just be a lot of things have changed, like jacks hair... i mean, hurley had a new excuse for being in AU, so why cant jack have a new reason not to cut his hair? point is, interesting theory, but IMO at this point there is nothing substantiating a forward jump in time.... kate was in the exact same spot, just three years later? a bit thin. -
true.. but it doesn't mean that stuff didn't happen to make them get on the plane 3 years later, either.. it's a theory, which is probably wrong like most everyone's theory.. until there is concrete proof that it's 2004 I will assume anything about this show..
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Who all tried out the LOST UNIVERSITY courses offered on the season 5 blu-ray? Got a bunch of lectures on philosophy (Locke, Bentham, Rousseau), ancient cultures (hieroglypics-sp?), and, most intriguing to me, physics of time travel. Lots of good stuff on special relativity (time running slow as you approach speed of light), paradoxes (cannot kill your mother before she conceives you), and quantum mechanics (allowing branching of universes from every possible decision/action). I really dug how season 5's mantra was "whatever happened, happened". No paradoxes because the time-traveling Losties are just doing what they always did in the 1970s. Sayid always shot Ben. Faraday always killed by his mother. Losties interfere during incident. The photo Sun and Lapidus found in Dharmaville 2007 seem to confirm they were always there. Faraday's about turn that "variables" (i.e. people) can allow a change seemed strange, but season 6 seems to support the idea of a branching reality. Is the decisive moment Juliet being successful in detonating the bomb with the rock? In one reality, the bomb detonates, destroying the island and sinking it. In the other reality, what? Island wasn't destroyed by Dharma was able to contain energy and build Swan station? And Losties pushed through time back to 2007, while Richard Alpert says they died (he told Sun last season). What did he, Radzinksy, Chang witness from their perspective? Obviously, the whole issue of Juliet knowing this other reality exists, and foreshadowing that the two realities will interact, isn't really supported by physicists, but that's okay. I'll roll with it.
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But I feel like I'm also trying to be pragmatic about it. They can't explain everything. I hold out hope, and if they can, more power to them. I'll be wrong and I'll admit it. I just don't think we're going to find out what made Walt so special in the first two seasons or why birds would fly windows near him, etc. But of course I'm giving the show the chance. I wouldn't not watch every episode of lost if my life literally depended on it. I have to know how it ends. I've watched every episode live since the Pilot. I will never quit.
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Another thing about smokie...
The Others @ the temple seemed scared shitless in learning Jacob was dead and went nuts throwing ash all over the place.
My question is that, if that's true, well, why can smokey be in the temple, like in Dead is Dead, when Ben was judged. WTF are smokie's boundries? Limits? Where can he go? Where cant he go?
Sorta confused on that one. -
I would say MiB can only mimic someone who's dead body is on the island. Reason why he needed Locke's body brought back. But didn't Ben's mother die in Washington State. Cause I'm pretty sure she appeared to him...
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I know it's just a theory and I'm not attacking you but is there any evidence that a 2004 flight is not the simplest explanation?
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Feb 03, 2010 2:49:26 PM CST
Fuck, no headeder. Referring to Smokie and the Cabin/Temple
by toughguyrizzo
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instead of my ps3 so I can really type my thoughts...
the island will sink in the regular timeline after some crazy shit happens wit Jack bein destined as the one (ie like Locke to MIB plan) by Jacob… the island will sink and the new timeline (lax) will be created…of course in lax a lot of things will be different due to Desmond tryin to correct mistakes of the LAX timeline (why, I dunno yet)…there is no way, the nuke causes the island to sink in 77 when we SEE the island a float in 07 (unless it sinks for 30 years but then explain all the on island stuff that we saw happen throughout the show)…so reg timeline bleeds into lax timeline…
But now, my crazy theory…why last season half of 06 and ben and lapidus were split up in two timelines… I say cuz Jacob found a loophole in 07/reg timeline (towards end of season or midway)…Eloise made a big deal sayin reenact the original crash despite baby mommas (Claire and sun) was in a diff situation (meanin Claire nor aaron was on the plane and Sun was not preg)…maybe Eloise set up the 06 to return back to the island cuz she knew eventually it will lead to Jacobs loophole…Christians body was never found on the island or in lax (so far), who to say that his body didn’t teleport during whichever flights (reg or lax flights) since WE seen Jack, Kate, Hurly, and Sayid teleport thru time durin their flight…Locke had a knife (and was displayin it) in the reg timeline and Locke was missing his from the lax timeline…so basically due to some crazyfuckery, Lockes knives and Christians body was teleported…also remember, Richard showed Locke his “future” possession wit the knife and Christian helped Jack start his quest to save Jacob (from telling Vincent to wake up Jack and telling him to go back)…basically, just as we have two Lockes in reg timeline, we will have two Christians
NOW TELL ME WHERE I AM WRONG OR DEBUNK MY THEORIES (without namecallin preferably) especially you Macfaux (since youre the smartest guy here)
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No energy to battle trolls today. Let them talk out their asses.
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55 Days into the Alternate Timeline, Desmond will be taking a shower. He will then switch bodies with the other timeline because he blew up the hatch. This explains why he was nude and partially his weird variableness.
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Now my complaints is, if we don’t get Michael, Walt, Eko (in a sense, not that big of a “I want Eko back” type of guy) and other important chars in LAX, then it will severely hurt everythin happening to the story arc of LAX
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the producers are calling it a "flash-sideways" but how can it be if this "new reality" is in 2004? With this show I tend not to take the simplest explanation, so maybe the simplest explanation is true.. but there's a reason why they only showed Claire from the top up.. is she preggers or has she already had Aaron or never had him at all? There are alot of questions, I just feel that if they wanted to introduce an older Walt or older characters they would stick with it being 2007.. which is a possibility.. one of the thousands going on with this show now..
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Smokie wasn't in the temple, he'it was under it. They made reference to underneath specifically not beingIN the temple in S5.
Hope that helps -
When Desmond turned the failsafe key, he went under the swan station. Presumably, that'd be around the area where Juliette was when she hit the bomb. That would put them both right next to the pocket of energy held within the island right when it was released. So if Desmond can jump through timelines in his reality, I'm betting Juliette can now perceive alternate realities. I bet we've not seen the last of her, and that her line "We should grab a beer sometime" is going to be said to someone (Sawyer? Who knows?) when we meet her alternate reality self, who of course would be back in the world and not on the island since she sank it in 1977.
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What it says about life. Jack thought that not coming to the island would be the solution to all of his problems in life. But now, we see that's entirely not the case. On the island, off of the island, life is wrought with difficult choices, challenges, and loss. He's no happier in his alternate reality than he was in his original one on the island. Genius!
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Cuz it is happening simultaneously to our eyes…but in the Losties timeline (or Jacks timeline), they crash, they return home, they return to island, they set off nuke, they reunite wit the Losties, they sink island, THEN LAX happens…basically this season will be like season 5…but poor Des, he has been teleportin through time and realities, so in the end, I hope they do a BSG The Plan type of movie/dvd following his timeline from deciding to sail the boat to however it ends…
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Well ben saw the Smoke Monster inside the outer wall, not inside the Temple or courtyard area.
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My last post for the day - when 815 originally crashed, on the first night, Rose said there was something familiar about the Monster's roar. Could it be that this isn't the first time that reality's been rewritten? Just how many times have the passengers of flight 815 crashed on/been to the island, I wonder?
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is the evidence that says they're in 2004?? Point it out to me.. I will admit being wrong.. but I don't see that it's 2004 or 2007.. it could be 2030 for all I know.. until they come out and say "it's 2004" I'm skeptical..
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There is no evidence to support that, and it makes so many things retarded. It was made so implicitly clear that it was the same flight, Oceanic 815, in 2004, but things were different. All the stuff with Rose made it the most obvious. And Cindy only handing him one bottle of booze. That theory just holds absolutely no water with me. They are flash sideways, and the two realities will need to be reconciled sooner or later.
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do the others not take the children because they are unable to have children on the island and need to keep up thier numbers,,, so a bit of kidnapping and rearing them as their own helps preserve their people...I could be way off but that was my understanding why the children including Alex were kidnapped
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flash sideways because its a parrallel reality ... parallel in that one is next to the other, side by side... like branching paths, one next to the other...thats why its sideways
Not to mention we already ahve back and forward flashes, so it would be confusing to call it a flash-a-little-back.
meekoletmelive-- I totally agree ... too specific and unrelated to their previous experiences, both she and the line will be heard again.... desmonds presence on the plane certainly opens a WHOLE lot of questions, as he is the biggest variable, no pun intended, in all of the sideways flashes we saw last night, his presences, jacks recognition of him (although it could be from running in the stadium, lets be honest who buys that)... something important is clearly going on there. -
that would be logical, except we know walt was special to them, had powers of some sort, and was forced to "take tests" or something, so I think we're supposed to be thinking its a bit more ominous than just keeping their numbers ... but who knows, maybe he meant english tests.... "they're making me do homework, dad!"
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Pa, Ok, just thinking they would have ash all over the place if they were that scared ya know. But ok, I'll take it.
If it were me, I'd be like, ok...throw ash EVERYWHERE you fuckin' Others!
Why wait ya know? -
Well yes, there was a post(s) about Juliet being in two time lines at once... what I mean is IF that's the same thing that happened to Faraday's lab assistant, does that not imply that a) back when it happened to the lab ass. there were already two time lines (the split by nuke in 1977) or b) that in fact there are no alternate time lines but it is still all the same reality at different time points (that these "brain damaged" people like Juliet and what-was-her-name can jump to... without taking their bodies with them, so they jump into their own bodies/consciousness at that point in time)
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there is no evidence to support that they are in 2004.. I'm talking verification.. that someone has come out and said, hey, "it's 2004" or show a newspaper or something.. this show is famous for twists and this could be one.. I think if it were 2004 they would have paid more attention to hair styles, etc. to recreate it exactly.. they know fans pick apart stuff as it is.. sorry nobody likes my theory.. but you can't convince me otherwise unless you have solid evidence..
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is there not some issue that Smokie desont go over water?? was the front of the temple not a wee lake
all hinting at defensive measures against Smokie...
furthermoe there may have been something in the MiB/Jacob agreement saying that Smokie could not attack the temple, with Jacob gone the temple folk hit red alert mode.... -
When Jacob said "They are coming", I was thinking more along the lines of angels or valkyries or whatever the Egyptian equivalent is. Why would he use his last breath to say this if it were antone else?
When Notlocke says he wants to go home, I'm thinking Egypt. Where else would it be. Tunisa?
What Egyptian gods have a brotherly rivalry similar to Loki & Thor from Nordic mythology? Anyone? -
Cuse and Mini-Me said regarding Michael and Walt not being on the plane "fate" or maybe it was "destiny".
They also said there was a reason for Jack spilling his drink...that goes along with the mark on his neck...something tells me we're going to see Jack get injured riiiiiiiiight in that same spot sometime soon. -
1. there will be 2 Christians like there is 2 “Lockes”
2. Sayid being key to helping Charlie stay alive in LAX and him bein helped stay alive in reg timeline
3. Jacob is really a asshole (seriously, he kinda deserved bein stabbed by Ben)
4. Hurley will be important to Jacobs plan as Locke is to MIB…cuz coincidentally, Hurley is the one who got Jacobs message, and not Miles (who could also have gotten the message) Aaron will prob be the vessel for either MIB/Jacob
5. Jack will sacrifice himself for the greater good (kinda like Locke was sacrificed for the greater bad)
6. no idea where MIB home is…hoping its not space cuz that would be too trippy…but then again I hope it is space cuz then that would be too trippy
7. Kate true love is Sawyer…its kinda weird that she and Jack shared lil time talking or confidin or encouraging or whatever to each other in reg timeline
8. Sayid was SHOT by the father of the boy he SHOT…coincidentally, THEYRE BOTH SAVED BY THE FOUNTAIN?
9. A Japanese guy on the island? That’s really trippy and Im sure it is a big plot…seriously, why would he be there? I like his reason as to why he doesn’t speak English, but something fishy there (maybe he is the LAST samurai?)
10. good to finally have Jin and Sun in the same timeline
11. LAX shouldn’t present more problems ie Sun not admitting to know English
12. I was kinda bugged by all the actors/actresses who have other work goin on now… ie Juliet on V, Charlie on Flashforward, puppeteer from Heroes, stewardess from some commercial, Matt Parkman, etc…just weird to me
13. why Richard just couldn’t walk into the foot? Seriously? He was being a drama queen bout it (but im sure that will make sense later)
14. and Cindy sayin from theyre from the 1st plane… IMO the temple people wont know about the 2nd plane landing on the island…maybe the temple people are protected by the timetravel/reality jumping/etc
15. it was funny in that catch up ep before the season premiere, they blocked out a lot of peoples faces…meaning, some chars you know of ARE NOT GONNA BE IMPORTANT (hopefully this wont be true cuz WE NEED Michael and Walt back)
16. something up wit Miles cuz he obviously knew Sayid wasn’t dead…
17. how did Locke disappear behind a pillar, smokie comes in thru front door, then Locke reappears behind Ben (same area as the pillar)
18. glad that big dude got smited like that
19. and lastly, I LOVE THIS FUCKIN SHOW! GIVE ME 3 MORE SEASONS!
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thank you.. I like your explanation.. I feel like a dipshit..
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Even though they're saying sideways, like Maxer pointed out above it's more like diagonal.
In the 2007 (original) timeline, there *is* a matching 2007X timeline, we just aren't there yet. I'm assuming their going to keep 2007 in "real time" and 2004X they're going to compress, and likely jump to key points like they did during the 2004-2007 original period. Heck, they probably even revisit some of the same critical decision points.
Or it's something about aliens. Either way :D -
everyone is wearing the exact same outfits, on the same flight, same positions in life, etc ... with the exception of desmond the only thing different is basically jacks hair and the turn of events, all of which can be explained logically by the story, or simple production choices like not cutting off a main characters hair and having him wear another atrocious wig all season.
we've all acknowledged its possible, i guess, but we are simply trying to prepare you for the likelihood you are not correct. -
yeah u could just imagine Michael standing on teh beach screaming "Wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllttttttttttttttttttttt finish ur fractions then you can go play with Vincent"
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It all seamed that there was some sort of long list of laws and rules between Jacob and MIB and now that Jacob is dead The Others know that MIB is coming for them. Maybe part of the previous contract said that MIB could use the underground area of the island and anywhere near a cerebius vent but no Temple itself. Now that Jacob's dead he's not bound by anything? On an unrelated note it was interesting how MIB came out of the foot and told everyone to behave themseleves?
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on this show.. it's been awesome.. I guess my main point is that in all the excitement anything could happen.. it seems that all bets are off.. who would have thought back in Season 1 that the "monster" was a big thing of smoke and that big thing of smoke was an evil dude who's possibly an Egyptian God or something? Most of us thought it was like Jurassic Park or some crap..
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Yeah, im pretty sure thats what theyve been insinuating all last season, that everything has already happened, and everything that they are doing has been the result of what they have done in the past. Its a 12 Monkeys thing and I think it relates to the alternate time line as well. Its what Hurley was having a hard time grasping, and despite what Faraday said I dont think they really changed anything by detonating the bomb, I think they had always done that, and, perhaps, part of the problem here, is that everything that has been done has fucked with time and space so much that its starting to unravel. But, like weve heard before, the Universe has a way of course-correcting so my guess is all of this, the story of Lost, is some sort of battle between Jacob and MIB that, whether intentional or not, resulted in fucking with Space and Time and what we are seeing is the story of how this all happened, how it culminated, and how it will be resolved. Thats my theory at this point anyway :)
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we'd have a show from Vincent's P.O.V. or at least an extra on the DVD or something..
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Well that was where Jack got shot while leaving Otherville with the hygrogen bomb when Roger tattled on them.
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many of the most prominent "multi-verse" theories usually say there are an infinite number of parallel universes, so his lab ass could have been in one of those.
But i guess it could be one timeline, especially taking into account desmond's literal "body-jumping", I'd say the same is certainly possible for her...
but I still think the evidence points more toward a future event we will see in the new timeline... otherwise they would have used something we've already seen...
I guess in my mind, the biggest aspect of this timeline NOT being the same is that the island was under water and buried for years, as evidenced by the degradation, growth, etc ... so I dont see how that island can be reconciled with our island, or the two groups of jacks, juliettes etc... UNLESS they are on a branched timeline/reality, separate from the one they inhabit. -
wait, his lab ass was in a different time, not necessarily a different reality, parallel universe, or whatnot
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It's his body. His original host body. The body of MiB we saw in the beginning of the finale of last season. This is my theory. THAT is his home.
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WHAT THE MAC-FUCK ARE YOU SAYING ALL THE TIME?!
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If the island has been underwater (im still convinced since the incident) what kind of things would it have affected? For example, wouldnt this mean Rousseau would never have gone to the island? Would this mean the numbers would never have affected Hurley? And if thats the case why is Hurley on the plane? How did he win the lottery?
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"Go to Indiana and convince them NASCAR sucks." Hah! Non Americana Alien!
Indiana? NASCAR? no. no. no.
Indiana ..Izod IndyCar!
North Carolina ..NASCAR!
I always knew there was somethin off with ya.. however, can we agree.. given the chance.. we would both drive Danica Patrick around the track and into the wall?
No? Fine! Go fuck yourself... I'm gonna post some Joe Purdy lyrics and use my node magic to post some 'bold' notions bout 'Tabula Rasa'.
You can smack back on that..ya fekkin bustard.
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our 2007 Losties are living thier current timeline so there is nothing to say that they could not be thrown back another 30 years with MiB wreaking havok and he could destroy the island and sink it in some mad donkey wheel kinda way...
seemingly with Jacobs death the 'others' are worried for thier safety..and this brings the island safety into the forefront...the writers have carte blanche with the islands timelines now, we'll be pissing in the wind trying to guess when the island got sunk and how..they have really gotten themselves into a great position to finish this story -
Faraday got grazed in the neck, not Jack.
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good question... but they said why he was on the plane, kinda ... he owns the chicken franchise, and was the voice of the australian mascot for the companys ads... he was prolly there for business.
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yet. But I'll put forth my observations:
1. Sayid brought back to life by the pool. Is this how they healed young Ben back in 1977? Didn't Richard say once he is healed, he wouldn't remember certain things? Will Sayid not remember certain things too?
2. MIB wants to go home? Where is home? Looking at it as a Paradise Lost-ish type of situation, could MIB be one of the banished angels and has now found a loop-hole to get back to Heaven? What kind of implications would this mean? -
As someone said above, the LAX passengers are wearin what they wore in 04 of the reg timeline…now Ill admit, there is nothing concrete sayin LAX is in 04, but it would be a big mindfuck to find out that LAX is actually in 2010…cuz IMO, LAX is the final timeline for Lost, but if it is in 2004, that would be weird seeing as we are in 2010 (and seen them 2007)
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My guess, 2007 will be reunited with the rest soon ie Sun, Lapidus, Ben.
My guess is for the 2004 timeline we will see how this timeline has been affecting the original timeline all this time. Adam and Eve-Rose and Bernard? -
Does the pool in the temple explain why Richard Alpert doesn't age?
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the upcoming episode titled "lighthouse" will have a very similar location to the "lamp post" (from last season, on the mainland where eloise found the island using the pendulum-esque system)... but the light house will be used to find where other places are in relation to the island.... i.e. its the same thing, but actually on the island.... and it will be used by MIB to try to find how to get off the island.
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The second most intelligent creatures on Earth who, of course, curiously enough have long known of the impending Collision coming in LOST. Sure. They've made many attempts to spoil LOST, but as most of their communications are misunderstood as amusing attempts to punch footballs and whistle for tidbits, they eventually decided..
Ah, don't worry aboot it man. -
Cmon people. Its simple. Its been 6 years since the premiere. The characters look different because they are 6 years older. Sheesh. On top of that Locke is still in his chair, Jacks dad just died, Sun wont speak english, Jin has the watch he kicked Michaels ass for in season 1, Sawyer is wearing the same goddamned shirt he was wearing when he and Sayid first fought on the beach. Some things arent meant to be overthought. I know its hard on Lost sometimes, but this one isnt hard to figure out.
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Charles Widmore will be featuring in some major way this season... how will his coming affect teh power struggles..we've Jack and Sawyer, Zombie Locke and Richard(witht the others) and maybe Ben vs Widmore to come...there is going to be some carnage this season...as shown with a destroyed undergorund island
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Still not funny.
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The blood on his neck will be of…Kates when she dies later in the reg timeline…everythin will be reset to LAX timeline…
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Nemesis, the Man In Black, could be a super-villain, an alien or a mythological entity. He can shape-change, appear as the smoke monster and read thoughts. He seems to have some of the memories of the people whose shape he assumes. And if he can shape shift into a smoke monster I'm sure he could easily be a Hurley bird.Do/did Jacob and his Nemesis have the same abilities? Has Nemesis ever been seen off the island? If Jack saw his dead father at the hospital after leaving the island, and Jacob was there with the candy machine, was that Jacob posing as Christian? has Jacob always been posing as Christian? Is that why people who went to the Cabin looking for Jacob say Christian there? Has every appearance of post-death Christian (on the island when Jack for st saw him, at the cabin, at the hospital, etc.) always been Jacob?
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not really ... ben still aged after being in the pool... maybe, but there is nothing yet to indicate the two are inextracbly linked....
For some reason, when they said the chains thing, I imagined a prometheus/atlas type god being forced into servitude or punished somehow... so I think alpert is also a god or like them, even if he is a servant -
You hit the nail on the head lol…I love ellipsis (mostly cause I am either highly intelligent or midly retarded, makin my thought flow hard to explain)…but yea, ellipsis rocks! Fill in that blank…
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yeah I agree and have thought the same thing... without the island, how will this affect who wydmore became, his ambitions, etc...
maybe Im too into superman, but I keep picturing a "president wydmore" banner to appear somewhere in the flash sideways. -
thank you, I think hopefully we can put that oen to rest ... too much is the same for it to be three years later, IMO... especially as you said jacks dad and jins watch and suns position... everything is the same.
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Okay, so "what if Faraday's plan worked" has the 815's back on the plane in September of 204, right?But the "what if it didn't work/triggered another time shift: Moved our gang to... when? Three and a half years forward to 2007?We met "The Children" Zach and Amma when they were stolen with Cindy from the Tailies. We saw them again on Bear Cage Island. And we saw them last night with The Others and Cindy as part of the Temple Group. Do we have anyone who knows enough about how children look at different ages to confirm that Zach and Emma only look three years older? Or did the "plan didn't work" group move further into the future, to 2010 or later?Just asking because Zach and Emma looked like teenagers to me, but then when you're 57 everyone between 12 and 20 looks the same, just different heights and weights.
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Just cuz JackX (lax) looked at the ocean and saw underwater island, doenst mean nuke made that happen…you’re looking at this season in the wrong view (from point a to b to c) when in this season, it looks like (from point a to point ax to point b to point bx)…the two timelines are running simultaneously to US…seriously, if the nuke did make the island, the mystery is solved…but no mystery is ever solved in the season premier…and this is Lost…when have they ever gave us a easy answer to the crazy stuff? “jack looks out the window, we zoom into the ocean, the island is at the bottom of it cuz the nuke worked)…
Think of it this way…if the nuke worked and the island sank, the SHOW and storyline are DONE…fin…whats the point of following lax lives or the losties in reg timeline…it doesn’t make sense to watch an entire season of something that already happened…wit the nuke not working, this season will show you how it got to the bottom of the ocean…I hope that makes sense and I will continue to be furiated at those sayin “the nuke worked, the island sank…but how did Hurley win the lottery”
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Hadnt thought of that. Good theory. I was thinking more along the lines of "I was banished to this time/space displaced damn island for 3000 years and I want to go home to Egypt!"
Sorry about the Sphynx's nose. -
is he a Con Man or Cop in this ..iteration. This season. which?
?
?
fifty fifty man?
un-hunh. -
any ideas on his name? Esau was good. Think they're saving that one for the big reveal?
Aaron maybe? -
is it now accepted here that the "What if the Faraday's plan to reset the time line worked" group actually created a new, different time line? What proves this?I can see an airline losing or stealing Locke's knives - or having post-9/11 airport security impounding them.Remember, the airport lady in Australia told Jack they couldn;t get christian on the plane - finally told him they would, to shut him up. Jack found the coffin but not the body on the island. Now he's d the coffin and body has been lost. What if they're lying to him about not having the coffin to cover up that Christian's body was never on the plane in the first place?Problem with that idea is, if Christian was never on the plane and therefore never on the island, than how is either Nemesis or Jacob able to pose as him?
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the American Comics Group (ACG - no relation to AC out of Florida) had two super-hero comics: "Nemesis" and "the Man In Black called Fate". Sheer coincidence that Jabob's companion/foe is identified (both on the clip show ans the show itself, I think) as both his Nemesis and Man In Black.As for "Esau";s name, so far he's just given those two descriptions - Jacob's Nemesis and The Man In Black.When discussing him, I am going to cal him Nemesis because Johnny Cash is "the Man In Black" and "MIB" makes me think of Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones in those Men In Black movies.
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You just blew my mind…I did expect to hear them call him Esau but Aaron? What the fuck?! That would make sooooooo much sense! Now I gotta incorporate your theory to my nuke didn’t sink island, but it will later this season leadin to lax timeline leadin to Christian being teleported back in time and reality to the reg timeline…but Christian was wit Claire…hmmmmmmm
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Hurley speaks to someone very close to Richard's past and conveys this person's message to Richard. Definite tearjerker on par with when we first meet Bernand and he finds out Rose is okay in season 2.
- Man in Black has a true nemesis - and it's not Jacob.
-"Happily Ever After" marks Desmond's full return - his centric episode as well. His "flash-sideways" feature Charlie, Daniel, Penny, Mommy, Jack, Widmore, and Claire. Widmore and Desmond share some of that famous scotch. Des has to make a very, very big sacrifice.
- "Everybody Loves Hugo" marks the return of Libby and Michael. Michael is a ghost on island and Libby and Hurley date in his "flash-sideways." Locke gets run over. Man can't catch a break, can he?
Source: DarkUFO
Read more: http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/2010/02/upcoming-episode-spoilers-some-big-ones.html#ixzz0eVzL7xpX
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Hope you like spoilers!
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Hope you like spoilers!
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WHAT?! I'm so confused.
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I dont know who the kids are, but I think I can answer the timeline questions at the start of your last two posts...
faradays bomb, regardless of working how he intended, seems to have trigered an alternate reality... which we now follow from the moment they DIDNT crash, aka 2004. The group we know was already split, between the ones in their present, 2007, and the ones in their past, 1970 whatever.. when the bomb detonated, the ones we know were all pushed back together in to their present, meeting the other groups timeline (sun,locke, ben, etc)... so its now 2007, no one is in the past, but there is now an alternate reality, or something like it, in which the plane did not crash.
it did not crash because many things are now different in the 30 years since the incident didnt happen or was somehow changed... and these differing events forced the alternate 2004 where the island is underwater and everyone on the plane lands safely... and just one of the many things, albeit the most recent, that changed in those 30 years was christians body not getting on the plane.
its just a guess, but IMO it was more an excuse to get locke and john to meet and have more contact in the future eps, and perhaps throw some mystery onto the fire with the missing body... because as we both agree, it would appear the body needs to be on the island for MIB to imitate them... (jacob is too much of a mystery, on and off the island, different appearnces, as jacks dad, maybe, too?) ... but the key word is imitate, as locke is still dead in the sand, despite the new locke walking around. -
I would just like to point out the awesome treat the writers have given us this year. For the series finale, you have to have a super bad-ass villain. But thus far the most compelling character on the show, for me a lot of others, has been, Locke. And make no mistake, that is all due to Terry O'Quinn. But, how could you make Locke the villain without destroying everything that made the character great. Well I think they've done it in grand fashion. I am so looking forward to seeing a B.A. Locke the rest of the season, and hopefully more than one more throat-punch.
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crazyfuckery. crazyfuckery.
Man that is some such six kinds of all right now.
That is a six demon bag o awesome. I kid you not. I am so stealin that term. -
Since youre the only one seeming to refute my theory (its cool, I actually want someone to do this so I can see it from a diff pov) but tell me why it don’t seem to work? Sure, NONE of us cant predict or correctly theorize whats goin to happen (in a story featuring timetravel, teleportation, fat people not losing weight, etc) but I think I know the groundwork. Me, this season (even tho the last season) will play out like the freighter season…WE SEE O6 make if off the island, but we wonder HOW and WHY… now WE SEE 815 is flying and the island is under the sea (heh heh), but HOW and WHY… And yea, crazyfuckery should be AICN word for 2010…please remember my contribution to the site folks lol
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I prefer UnJohn ..NonJohn ..to Flocke..any way
Did Olivier Hag ever give you back your shoe you left up his Ass?
Its Ok. I wouldn't want it back either. B.A. Ba-Lockes. hmmpf. Will he need gold chains?
And there is an obscure relevance. -
MiB is actually an amalgam of every dead person on the island, including Locke and Christian. Their souls are imprisoned on the island and they all want to go home.
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I think Obama called it the 57th state or something like that. I want to visit one of seven U.S. states that only exist in Obama's mind.
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"..hey look. The cock crowed..and the Douche awoke" I barely replied to a message that was addressed to me, but hey, I guess that's one (nice and composed) way to put it, indeed! So what was the ratio of Lost fans who were too fucking idiotic not to systematically resort to kindergarten-level insults simply because a talkbacker like me dared to criticize the show, in the end? 3 out of 4? 4 out of 5? You guys sure can be proud of yourselves: you obviously are a quality audience. (thanks to the few who showed enough brains to actually _discuss_)
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Before the ash line was broken, I'm guessing that smokey had to be let out by Ben, by pulling the underwater drain thing. That would explain why we saw it in the first few seasons. But what is the black smoke and why is it repelled by ash (and likely water)? Is that a special ash, like the remnants of whatever burned to produce the smoke in the first place? I noticed that Jacob's body was missing from the firepit, so did the same thing happen to him now? Was burning Jacobs body payback for Jacob burning the LockeALike in his previous life?
As for the alternate reality, why was Locke, Claire or Hurley on the plane? I hope this season doesn't waste its time on the mysteries that were only introduced during the premiere. It's too late in the game for the focus to shift now. -
i think i would like the refute your theory... Regardless of the bomb "working" an alernate timeline could have been an unexpected otucome that needs to be resolved now, or these flashes could be used once again to show us the power of "destiny" as these characters lives still end up intertwining for whatever they have destined down the road/this season...
no one said destroying the bomb would stop jacob/ MIB or whatever they are doing with their "game" and its "rules".
Point is, there is still plenty of reason for the show to be on, and focusing on our new timeline, regardless of the bomb doing what it should or shouldnt have. -
i like your mib theory..cept why did Chritian need Jack to get to work or go back to the island...IMO that Christian is the good one (read above bout my theories of 2 Christians from lax and reg timelines)
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Holy shit. HOLY SHIT. You want to see crazy, folks? THAT'S FUCKING CRAZY, RIGHT THERE.
Seriously, guy, you're talking psycho-babble bullshit to grown adults who are OBVIOUSLY more intelligent than you are. You clearly have some sort of psychological issues, and even clearer than that is your constant state of drunken stupidity. Give it a fucking rest, man. Nobody reveres you, respects you, or even knows what the fuck you're saying. You can call it a "bit" or a "shtick" all you want, but that doesn't fool anybody. You're a fucking mental case, and this is your only outlet for attention. Dial the arrogant stupidity down a few notches, you fucking jackass. Some of us are trying to have a conversation here.
FUCK, I'm tired of having to sift through this guy's insane bullshit in order to find posts and comments from normal, civilized people. -
Goddamn! Thank you!!! Sheesh. Sometimes I wonder If im watching the same show as everyone else.
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i meant to say, the island at the bottom doesnt have to be caused by the bomb, it could be a by-product of whatever the bomb does to their competition or whatever it is...
also, theres still no being sure it is an island, so the assumption it cant sink after a hydrogen bomb detonate inside it, is wrong. -
Band member from geronimo jackson?
http://tinyurl.com/y9wqc4l -
it seems we have 2 parallel timelines now. We have "the nemesis" "smoky" "not Locke" who has revealed that his intent is to "go home"
Jacob seems to be his keeper,warden whatever you want to call it.
Was "the nemesis" (I still want to call him Esau) banished to the island long ago? Is he held there by some force that he now thinks he can remove since Jacob is gone?
Were he and Jacob brothers?
Is Jacob his brother's keeper?
These abilities they have and the island's time travel,cloaking ability makes me tend to think these guys are aliens and maybe the island is a crashed ship.
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Thank you first for refuting…but this my thing…say what you say is true…then HOW DID JACK AND CO transport to the FUTURE on an island that is not underwater? The island is/and has always been above water (in reg/our timeline)…in LAX the island is underwater…if the island is underwater, of course that means they never crashed onto it…but if one timeline has them “resetting” everything which leads to LAX timeline, how are Jack n Co still on a island? Unless of course, there is 3 (or actually more) timelines including original timeline (where plane crashed), LAX (where plane didn’t crash), and a crazyfuckery timeline (where people time-travel)…
I know my theory may not work out perfectly, but no way the nuke caused the island to sink…what Im getting at is THE CAUSE OF THE ISLAND HAPPENS LATER THIS SEASON which leads to LAX (where its tech the beginning of a new timeline to us)…hope that makes sense to everyone (and esp to myself)
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Feb 03, 2010 5:04:46 PM CST
HAHA Kate flirting wi Sawyer right after he buried Juilet
by picardsucks
What a colossal little cunt!!
Hot chickie for sure but a cold blooded opportunist cunt! -
Im not saying the nuke cant cause the island to sink, I say the cause HASN’T happened yet in the reg timeline or from our POV…the island sinking will happen later…basically in 2010, if I blow up my car in March, I cant time travel to June to sit in my car cuz it has been blown up…to make matters more concrete, my best friend was in the trunk of the car in June while I was in March…and somehow after I blew up my car in March, I go to June to see my best friend still in the trunk (and very angry)…and lets say in 2011 my mom saw my burnt up car on the side of the road…that’s what Im getting at…nuke DID NOTHING but send Jack n Co to their correct time (which leads to the island sinking and LAX being created)
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yeah I get your idea, too, but I was just poking holes in your reasons, refuting the theory as I don't think its right.
I think the whole "what should have happened" vs "what did happen" when the bomb went off, is pretty much impossible to know for sure at this point, but an unexpected effect could have been resetting them to the future.
If I had to guess, Id say the answer is jacob. he brought them back to the present, just as he brought them back to the past....
because as long as we're getting nuts here, how did jack,kate,etc get back to the 70s in the first place?
I think at this point we just cant know... but I think IMO we've had our last "shift" til the finale -
Juliet deserves it…she is a known homewrecker…wit manish hands…
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Feb 03, 2010 5:11:58 PM CST
HAHA Twilight Samurai fucked up Jack with a flick of his finger!
by picardsucks
Hiroyuki Sanada is not to be fucked with. Was Sonny (could fuck up Bruce Lee or any fey tattoed Ultimate Fighter) Chiba's protege from the late 70's into the 90's when his own career took off. Sanada can really fight and is a noted swordsman plus he was in Japanese Star Wars "A Message From Space"
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someone said the island couldnt sink frmo a bomb, thought it was you...
anyway, parallel realities dont exist in the same time and space, visible and interactive with the other... they are dsitinct... so if they exist, of course the island and the people could be in different places... otherwise it would be the SAME reality. -
the timelines dont ever have to mesh abck toogether... I agree they should for all things to come to a nice close, but the nature of parallel realities is that they are distinct and separate... so two of everything, but each in its own time and space, is almost a given.
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well spotted sir
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And this is my last rambling today (or maybe until I get home but then ill be on a ps3 and wont be able to fully communicate using a ps controller…)
But MY THEORY, the 06 were split up and timetraveled because of the new LAX timeline (which is weird, cuz in my theory, LAX would have to happen after reg timeline) but anyway, some timetravled back to the 70s cuz of the problems of said LAX wit Christian missing body and Lockes knives… I SWEAR those two items will PLAY a big part as to why certain people went back in time and why certain items/bodies don’t exist in LAX or the reg timeline…Christian was never on the reg island (besides as a spirit) and his body isn’t in LAX…some crazyfuckery reason, those two switched places…Locke is POSSESSED by MIB but that dead body comes from the LAX timeline just like UnLocke has a knife in the reg timeline (but real Locke doesn’t in LAX)…so if you up to it again sir/maam, refute that theory! But this was fun guys…now I wanna go into a selfinduced coma and wake up when the s6 dvd comes out…damn you time!
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I dont think he's jacob, he may be a 3rd player. its somewhat alluded to that jacob may not even be the man in blacks real nemesis. if thats true then they have a lot of story to finish in 1 season.
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If not then these fucking idiots are just digging themselves into a hole with where they're going.
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Sorry this is my last one…I never said the nuke couldn’t sink it, Im just saying it didn’t… the island underwater is our new mystery… its not the answer… and the realities aren’t technically parallel (to them, not us), one has to end before the other begins (but we watch em both simultaneously)…
Basically my theory is (and sad to say it)…like BSG wit the it has happen, it will happen again… just imagine BSG series finale wit them on Earth or in our timeline (whichever you want to imagine) and now imagine playing the 1st season of BSG wit the finale…theyre simulataneously happening but not really also…get it? And thank you Brech esp for refuting/discussing, you’re helping my mind cope wit that brutal mind rape fuck from last night lol…
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he is the MIB ... thats why at the end of last season jacob said to new locke, "i see you found your loophole"
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especially when he scowls.
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i think the whole new timeline is our new seasons mystery, as is why they are back in their same old present... but I have trouble with the infinite loop BSG theory you suggest if only due to the black rock, etc ... jacob and MIB in the beginning of last seasons finale argued over their game or whatever it is, and MIB said nothing changes, while jacob said it only has to happen once, everything until now is progress, implying things can change, and this isn't a loop but a hopefully changeable situation... while it also seems to validaet your idea that this has happened before, to me it invalidates the idea they need to repair the timelines as much as deal with the MIB and jacob.
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And is going to spend the rest of the season laying around sun tanning and complaining.
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mib didnt recognize the black rock on the horizon, and one would think it wouldnt be surprising if hed seen it before.
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Charles Widmore.
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I finally got to watch the 2 new episodes this morning. Man...off to a great start.
I noticed in the talkbacks earlier about some issues with the temple.
I think some confusion arose with the western concept of a temple, or place of worship. I think most westerners/Americans kind of reference the idea of a temple as a church or cathedral. A building that is singular in it's appearance and function. What I saw in last nights episodes reminded me of Angkor Wat in Cambodia, which means "City Temple". (by the way...amazing to see with your own eyes!)
Just a thought.
I can't believe this show keeps getting better. Makes me long for the jungle again.
Til next week! -
"no way the nuke caused the island to sink…what Im getting at is THE CAUSE OF THE ISLAND HAPPENS LATER THIS SEASON which leads to LAX" Yeah, like I said above before the season premiere aired, I would also have to think the "landing safely at LA X" reality wasn't caused by the hydrogen bomb (that would be one fat paradox, after all: that bomb was set off by the Losties because they had crashed on the island... so if they _don't_ crash on the island...). But then there's this annoying thing about Juliet's last words ("it worked") that sure seem to imply that this "new" reality _was indeed_ caused by the bomb. Yeah, like I said in my attempt of an explanation, I would tend to agree with you: it shouldn't be the case, the bomb shouldn't be the "trigger"... but it doesn't look like that's where the writers are going. (and of course, I'm seeing that as yet another bad move on the writers' part, but I'm the "I lost all faith in those hacks" guy, so no surprise there!)
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Finale was just another high definition extravaganza of new dead ends. Here are two choice quotes from an interview with Cuse and Lindelof done by the Chicago Tribune's entertainment blog which should prove these schmucks and their writing team have had very little structure for the show's "arc" from the get go and have disdain for fans who like the show but just want the story to MAKE SENSE and have some decent resolutions:
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2010/01/lost-damon-lindelof-carlton-cuse-abc-interview.html
"Lindelof: I think the worst thing that’s happened in the blogosphere in general is that there’s this sense of needing to insulate yourself from being excited about something by saying, “I’m very skeptical about this.” With "Avatar," for basically four months, [the online conventional wisdom] has been, "I don’t think it’s going to be any good, it doesn’t look good, it’s going to suck." Back when I was a kid, before “Empire Strikes Back” or “Return of the Jedi” came out, when all you saw was the trailer and you didn’t have the Internet, it was basically like, “I just want this movie to be the greatest movie ever!”
And what’s the matter with saying I want Season 6 of “Lost” to be the greatest season ever? But people won’t say it because it’s easier for them to approach it as, "It’s going to let me down, it’s going to disappoint me, it’s going to prove that they were making it up as they went along, they’re not going to answer the questions that I really care about." So if we do those things, they’ll be like, “Oh, I’m pleasantly surprised.”
But if we don’t do those things, then they’ll be like, "It’s exactly what I’ve been saying all along." It’s like, "Is that what you were saying all along? Because then you’re a moron for watching the show for five seasons." You know? Why would you ever let us set you up for such a grand disappointment?
But I do feel like that’s a very pervasive sort of feeling. That feeling existed before the “Battlestar” finale. And guess what? Those people got to say, “I was right.”
I think it's funny how the fans are supposed to be morons for intelligently critquing their "perfect" show but as self proclaimed sc-fi geeks themselves Cuse and Lindelof do their very own fan pissing on a constant basis, freely criticizing other series by other artists and writers such as Battlestar Galactica and the SW Prequels, ie: "But when the fans criticize the flaws of OTHER sci-fi/fantasy series they could be right! The fans were right to be disappointed with the Galactica finale but anybody who expects to be happily satisfied with our finale after being disappointed by many unresolved plot points over the last 5 years is a moron. Oh and the only reason RoTJ and the Prequels have any redeeming value is because when you're a kid you're more optimistic."
Way to go Darlton. What a great mantra for modern TV writers: "Don't like our show making sense or having a coherent plot? Well you're just part of the 'cynical blogosphere' culture." And using Lucas's mistake of the Midichlorian "explanation" in TPM as an excuse for their inability to competently organize all the endless elements they themselves have introduced on the show is beyond pathetic and shows that while they view "fan/nerd" dissection of their work as unfair, as said before they'll use their OWN personal fan gripes to justify their poor writing and plot choices! Seriously, the hypocrisy and arrogance of these two. -
I'm not terribly interested in the nitty gritty of the nuke detonation, but obviously it didn't blow up properly in the "real" timeline. But something happened because everyone was knocked out. And Kate was up in a tree. Maybe the creation of an entire other universe will do that - knock you up into a tree. Big bang, anyone? Huh maybe this is the loop - the mother of all loops.
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I realize my response wasnt totally to point, at least yours... but there is no refuting your theory really, it involves stuff we havent seen and forces we dont understand ... and i certainly see it as possible, just not exactly what Im guessing will happen.
I'm at a loss for how they will reconcile the new stuff, but I think they have to, and yours is one possible way -
Lost's ending? What a shithead.
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brechsky: wait, his lab ass was in a different time, not necessarily a different reality, parallel universe, or whatnot
exactly! That's why I think there is no alternate universe but an slighly changed 2004 and what we see in 2007 is shown to us in parallel but actually happens in the same time line only later.. I have no clue about the sunken island and how that would fit, but up til now, noone on the talkbacks ever got it really right... we have to see what happens, I guess thats' why we all keep watching -
Another telling excerpt from a recent interview: "Lindelof: The only question that's ever mattered to us is what is going to happen to these people. What is the character resolution? That the audience feels like the characters had an arc -- a beginning, middle and end. And I'm satisfied with that. All the crazy island mythology stuff, we love it, but it's like terrorists attacking Jack Bauer -- it's stuff that happens in order to tell cool character stories." ( Lindelof: The only question that's ever mattered to us is what is going to happen to these people. What is the character resolution? That the audience feels like the characters had an arc -- a beginning, middle and end. And I'm satisfied with that. All the crazy island mythology stuff, we love it, but it's like terrorists attacking Jack Bauer -- it's stuff that happens in order to tell cool character stories." So there you go: it's just "crazy island mythology stuff", who cares, right? In the end, what matters is "will Jack get the girl?!". Who gave you the idea that the (crazy) mythology (stuff) really mattered? What do you mean, "most of the show, countless cliffhangers, and son on"? No, you were just watching it _wrong_, silly viewer. Naturally. Urgh...
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(sorry, I don't know why that interview excerpt got copy/pasted twice...)
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I think we need to stop discussing the bomb and its effects in real world terms; due to the fact that as far as we know, there is nowhere on the planet where a hydrogen bomb went off ,over top of a gigantic pocket of electromagnetic energy and exotic matter. I don't think the point is to give a lesson in meta-physics. I think the point is to say that something we all know: energy; was violently released, and it caused something we don't know about: A tear in the fabric of reality. Which is allowing these characters to have a more intuitive sense of past/parallel lives.
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If only the Networks would premiere the brilliant new pilot "why I am not an attention seeking douche" which I wrote as I continually struck my head violently against a wall as I hate that too and so of course keep doing it.
Back in the real world... Great new start, great acting and great atmosphere. We'll really miss this when it's finally done.
Esau. To travel between the timelines. Desmond Widmore Penny -
You may end up being right about 12 monkeys, but here's my circumstancial case for 2004: For the flight to take place in '07, John would have to have delayed his walkabout for 3 years. He told Boone he'd been walkabout. Jin and Sun would have waited 3 more years before deciding to escape her dad. Kate would have been on the run 3 extra years from the same bounty-hunter. Rose would have survived three more years with her cancer and been well enough to make out with Bernard like a school girl. Christian would not have died until 2007. Jack says my dad died two days ago. Each character has some similar reason that would have been delayed 3 years. Some of them might be plausible, but all of them? And at the same time? That's the best I got. Hope you check this. I've enjoyed our exchange so far.
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Who are the writers trying to fool with this unrealistic nonsense ? If only they were as good as the writers of Heroes.
Yeah, right. -
"I'm tired of having to sift through this guy's insane bullshit in order to find posts and comments from normal, civilized people."
*snicker* ..like yourself..hold on. hang on, pal.. I'm choking on my drink..*cough* Ok. Pot..you were saying? something about a kettle? No?
Again..and wow..why do you kids need multiple logins ..how many you got 35? C'mon be honest?
Anyway..you are smarter than me ..blah, blah, blah.. and yet my dozen and change posts are too much for you to fathom and feature and forward on past in a node of 1100...blah, blah blah..
Hey, kid..look, I don't care what you think of me. You don't know me... Why the fuck are you so hot for my cornhole? Do you need a date? Are you prettier than Crow? What do you care what I type? Just scroll on boy, scroll on. Jesus Christ. How many times am I gonna have to say the same thing to your different logins. And don't pretend you don't use different logins.
Anyway. if you do want a date ..as you seem to do. Send me a pick, sugar pants.. if you are pretty, I'll let ya know if you can be one of my beeetches. bitch. -
...that's a strangely curious interpretation of what they said, but you're on a roll, so please, don't let thought or fairness put a curb in your path. A more objective interpretation might be that they were lamenting the loss of innocence caused by the proliferation of internet entertainment chatter. If so they certainly wouldn't be the first ones to bring up this topic, in pretty much exactly the same terms. Still, no reason not to claim the duck's a falcon if it suits your purpose. As for what they said about the Galactica finale, it was them agreeing with a consensus of critics and fans but I guess it didn't hurt until they said it. So there was nothing factually incorrect in it, and they were pointing out that the same thing could happen to them. Black hearted villains, the pair of them. Surely we can find some pitch and feathers and put them on their way.
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I completely agree that it's happening in '04, but I wanted to correct something cuz it was one of my favorite moments in the premier. Locke never went on the walkabout. He was lying to Boone. Originally, Locke was put on 815 because they wouldn't allow him to go on the walkabout. That, to me, is what makes this reality so tragic. Locke will never become the hero we all saw him become. He is just a sad lonely man in a wheel chair. Watch him get wheeled out of the plane again. He is a husk. Which is ironic given that's literally what he is in the first time-line(to us at least)
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Love all the thoughts in this board.Something is obviously different about New-Sayid (all five seconds of him) but I didn't make the leap to "Sayid isn't fully himself" until I went online and everyone was talking about it. Just how did we come to this conclusion? Was it the dreamy look in his eyes?Macfaux, I genuinely enjoy reading your experimental poetry, but this is a television talkback. You know, where we "eschew obfuscation" whenever possible. While you entertain me (seriously), and occasionally even inform me, sometimes I want a coherent sentence / a coherent thought or two. Please? You're full of good insights obviously; why don't you try harder to clarify your references and finish your sentences? You want people to understand you, right? (Don't you?) I say this with a gentle nudge, not flame.I'm happy (and I'm guessing the writers are happy too) to be out of the "temporal paradox" game. I look forward to reading Lost discussion boards not loaded with people talking in circles about cause and effect, though we'll still be talking about theoretical physics. Sorta.It's a nice balance now. I'm much more interested about what happens to the alterna-losties (the plot mechanics of the alternate timeline), but less interested in them as characters, since they seem slightly "off". Whereas in the traditional 2007 timeline, I'm more invested in the characters, and less interested in the "Battle Lines Will Be Drawn!" scenario that litters the ABC promos to draw in new viewers. Sticks, flaming arrows, smoke attacks. Yawn.Most of all I'm really glad we get Locke back, or some version of him. His death broke my heart. That's why Un-Locke's discussion with Ben was so great... one of the best moments of the premiere.
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...and one great fear I have about the coming season is that Jack will somehow figure out a way to make him walk. I trust the writers enough to believe they won't go this treacly route, that the passing of the card will lead down some other path...but I have been burned before.
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I'll at least admit I still feel that Lost has very good and (*usually*) nicely defined characters. But you are right, for Lindelof to use good characters as another excuse to shrug off their responsibilities as writers towards the plot is lame and does a disservice to sci-fi in general. "We irresponsibly wrote tons of dead ends but at least we have interesting characters, right? Right?" Weak. A simple example of sci-fi with both good characters and well defined antagonistic elements is the original Alien. Ripley, Dallas, the others are all likeable and easy to identify with at time, and the Alien itself, while having some elements of its nature a mystery, still makes perfect sense in how it acts toward the crew, its biology, its nature as a bio-weapon ect. Whoever watched the original Alien and liked the characters more than the theme or the plot? Same for Star Wars. It's like saying "Who really needs that hokey Force stuff. At least Han Solo and Darth Vader were cool!"
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turns out everyone that watches this show wasted many many years of their lives...fade to black
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"Who are the writers trying to fool with this unrealistic nonsense ?" It's not about realism (obviously not, as we're dealing with a supernatural setting), it's about coherence. Those are two completely different things, and it seems like many people don't realize that. "If only they were as good as the writers of Heroes." I know I'll get (more) shit for this one, but I'd say the Lost writers are only marginally better than the Heroes one, actually. The thing with Lost is that it's a "long con" so it makes it a bit harder to see the flaws (see all the "you're complaining about all that stuff, but for all you know, it's going to be explained before the end of the show!" reactions criticism of Lost elicits). The "volume" structure of Heroes makes the flaws a lot more apparent. But in both cases we got huge plot threads that were unceremoniously dropped: for one love interest lost in an apocalyptic future, we get a "special" black kid who matters so very much in the mythos until he just doesn't at all anymore. "Please work us and forget we ever introduced that character." Ouch. Bad writers. Bad.
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...I swear I'm not meaning to pick on you, but your last post bordered on the nonsensical. Alien was a monster movie, a beautifully directed monster movie, but at its heart a retread of a thousand other stories. It, The Terror From Space, Creature From the Black Lagoon, and on and on almost to infinity. It was one of the best monster movies ever made, but it barely qualifies as science fiction. Space, and the future, were where the horror movie was set. And Star Wars and "the force"? I love Star Wars, but if you're pointing to that as a touchstone for complex writing then I guess the Lost folks could make you happy by putting the Forbidden Planet machine somewhere on the island and calling it a day, huh? "Everything that happened here was caused by this little device planted under where someone built this temple millenia ago. It amplifies the hopes and fears of anyone on the island. And those with the strongest will, the strongest beliefs, the strongest fears become the island's masters." Because that's the sort of thing the force is. And I don't mind that. I liked it in Dune before the simplified version appeared in Star Wars, and I liked the simplified version in Star Wars, too. But you've made a serious point by latching on to these two very simple, archetypal stories and pointing to them as your paragons. And the point isn't about them or Lost.
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...actually the Forbidden Planet machine would explain why he was important and then not, too. But yes, I would consider that very bad and lazy.
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Assuming Faraday's plan worked in the LAX-reality (which I more or less am - whether the bomb actually did the sinking or not - especially as it's supported by Juliet's "ghost"), there is more than enough story to be told and mysteries to be answered in terms of the island-plot as well as more than enough material required to bring the character arcs to a close to fill season six. I think some of you are really over-thinking this and attributing more complexity than is warranted. Faraday's plan and Jack's faith in it were half-baked if you apply any true intellectual scrutiny to it, but I believe we are expected to take those things at face value.
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And now I must stop.
We aren't fooled you know. If you truly didn't like this show as much as you claim you just wouldn't watch it and you certainly wouldn't waste your and our time nitpicking it for hours/days on end with trivia.
Do you know what normal people did when Heroes turned to crap? Stopped watching, stopped caring and didn't waste another minute of their time on it posting feverishly.
But normal people aren't attention seeing obsessives and responding to such people sadly only encourages them.
Lost is nowhere near perfect and I have criticised many aspects of it but it's been quality entertainment for years and shows every sign of continuing to be so.
Those who didn't like it from early on and stopped watching and posting on it for whatever reason I can at least respect for their honesty. -
will have been a slave on the black frigate ship or whatever the boat with the dynamite was called, very interested in his backstory, as im thinkin he's from spain from WAAAYYY back in the past.
pretty convinced that jacob and the man in black are fallen angels, and the island is a place where they cannot control lives or free will, but anything else, i.e. time, space, matter, is fair game. and after millions and millions an millions of year jacob finally found the right CHARACTERS to change what has always happened, the end of existence maybe? very basic interpretation of last nights episodes, but thats what it felt like. big clues in the dialogue, and in the way they chose to narrate the recap and what was important to the story. -
"Black hearted villains, the pair of them. Surely we can find some pitch and feathers and put them on their way." Oh, touched a nerve, did I now? And no it's not a "strangely curious interpretation" of what they said. I pointed out something which is very true: Cuse and Lindelof complain about fan frustration towards their show yet constantly nitpick other shows and series just as much as we do! Sure, they may be more polite and do it without cursing and profanity (which I also dislike when discussing, well prety much anything), but any way you cut it, that's hypocrisy. But I'm sorry if my "ultra-biased" interpretation isn't "objective enough" to your own liking just because I called them out on their own bunk. Example: Lindelof and Cuse have both stated more than a few times that as self proclaimed X-Files fans, they would never want their own show to degrade in overall quality regarding *direction and lack of answers* that the last few seasons and the finale of the show itself produced. That was stated as recently as 08/09. Just another example of what I pointed out. Don't get me wrong, in many ways I still feels it's a well done show and like I said, it's got very good characters. And some dramas and stories no doubt do benefit from a balanced amount of mystery and personal interpretaion of what is happening in the plot. But from the very beginning, Lost has been executed and presented by its creators as a show built on the desire of the audience *carefully following the clues* and getting answers and payoff for its continuous plot points and cliff hangers. Now for them to say that fans who are feeling burned out by the show's very structure not having enough resolution after 5 + years when the entire concept of the show is waiting to see what will happen next are just unreasonable people is very disingenuous to say the least.
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...that was a very reasonable restatement of your feelings and I find very little in what you've posted to disagree with. I would still quibble over them pointing out what is generally accepted as common wisdom about other shows. As someone who has done a bit of writing myself I know that there are certain pitfalls that I identify absolutely by the place where it hurt me to read or see it. And by the way, it certainly doesn't make me better than the people who made those mistakes, it just hopefully has and will help me not make those precise ones. With luck they will serve as true cautionary tales for these guys.
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Sayid had a strange accent and the water wasn't clear. Now that to me issaying that the revival 'process' is not clear cut and maybe clear water = blank mental slate or something of that order.
Did anyone catch clearly what Sayid said to Hurley just before he talked about all the people he tortured ? Bit unclear on my recording. -
"And Star Wars and "the force"? I love Star Wars, but if you're pointing to that as a touchstone for complex writing then I guess the Lost folks could make you happy by putting the Forbidden Planet machine somewhere on the island and calling it a day, huh?" Being polite doesn't give you an excuse to put words in my mouth, where did I say that Star Wars = "amazing writing"? And hey, some COHERENT explanation of what's going on is better than barely any/none is all I'm saying. How about we do this, Mr. Writer? You've been defending the show and its staff all TB, how about you give some constructive criticism of something, anything of what YOU think doesn't work on the show as a writer? I'm serious, I'd be interested to hear it.
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...I got two possibles. The first I fear is true but hope isn't. That would be that Sayid's moral failings (the whole murder and torture) thing made him a questionable candidate for the pool to heal. Man, I hope that's not true, but it stinks like it will be. The second is the pool went cloudy in response to Jacob's death. For me this would be the more interesting possibility. Probably not it, though. Of course there's that third rail. Jack blowing up a nuclear weapon underground screwed up the island's water table!
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Sorry if I sounded cranky in that last post, you seriously have been good to discuss this with. :)
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yeah the whole 'not chosen' 'not on the list' thing. I hope not either.
Don't think it was Jacob dying though it had crossed my mind too. They seemed far too surprised when Hurley dropped that bombshell on them. There was a huddled conversation about it though so there was something definitely perplexing them about it. -
Sayid was commenting on how he basically knew his afterlife would be torment and punishment because of how many people he tortured
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Christ's apsotles seemed the most shocked that their master was truly dead, or you could say, the kids in Narnia about Aslan
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...odd, but when I read your post the first thing that popped into my mind was a tiny character beat. Not even sure what season it came from. Jack and Kate are caught in a net. Kate, the fugitive criminal tries to shoot at a rope that, if she can hit it, will release them. She misses. Jack, the physician who we had (and still have) no reason to believe had ever fired a gun before coming to the island (but who has an oh-so better angle) gets the gun from Kate and immediately shoots the rope clean through. Just terrible. I can give you about a thousand more of those or we could address some thematic problems I have. And I have quite a few, especially with the dreadful tailies era of the show. But if you asked me to come up with things I thought were wrong with The Wire, which I like much more than Lost, I could do that, too. That doesn't really prove anything. I'm not even sure why it would make you happy.
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Alright, fair enough.
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I think that smokey is a jinn and Jacob is an angel as laid out in the Quran. As such they are linked as two opposing forces to the island(Atlantis,Shang-Ri-La,Eden) So this pool(fountain of youth) if Jacob holds sway over the island would bring life and be clear and inviting but if the jinn held sway the pool would bring death. And who better than Sayid to be the bringer of death? He's been training for years.
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"Those who didn't like it from early on and stopped watching and posting on it for whatever reason I can at least respect for their honesty." "Honesty"? What's "dishonest" about the fact I'm still watching a show even though I think it got off the rails really early on? Or is it the fact I dare post my views and explain them? _That_'s "dishonest"? Whuh? 'Looks like you're just assuming bad faith, as if I thought the show was well-written but (for some reason??) said otherwise on the net. Sorry, but the truth is less convoluted than that: I am being honest, here. Now it looks like some just can't begin to comprehend why one would keep watching a show despite the fact they think it's going nowhere _fast_, but (like I explained earlier, actually) there's this thing called "curiosity". No big mystery, no hidden agenda, nothing like that, sorry to say...
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...don't worry. That's what these talkbacks are for. Although here's certainly another. The writers clearly responded in a very short term and short-sighted fashion to the popularity of Mr. Eko. It's an easy thing to do. You introduce a supporting character and you love writing it and bam, pretty soon it's taken over the story. But in this case Eko shot into the ascendancy at the expense of other characters (in my opinion principally Locke) who were essential to the story's progression and whose diminution it took the show valuable time to repair (and the argument could be made that in some ways Locke's character never fully recovered, although it was papered over to some extent with his grief and confusion over the button). I am certainly not the person to look to for uncritical love for this or any show. I'm kind of a picky little bitch.
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Hey chimpjnr...
Blacks weren't the only people to be in bondage.Do a little research on slavery. -
"But if you asked me to come up with things I thought were wrong with The Wire, which I like much more than Lost, I could do that, too. That doesn't really prove anything. I'm not even sure why it would make you happy."
Agree 100% And there is no point trying.
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Agreed, the way Eko was handled later was poor. Just because Locke renewed his faith in the Island there was no absolutely use for Eko anymore? But I also heard another incentive they had for dropping him was that supposedly Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was very hard to get along with on set.
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Like I said before there's little to no point in engaging with attention seeking obsessives as it only encourages them.
Now I'm off to eat a steak even though I hate steak just because I'm curious and the first 98 Steaks haven't taught me anything.
Expect me to post for hours on end afterwards on why steak must be truly awful. And then to have another Steak and do the same again and the same again and the same again and... I'm not an attention seeking obsessive BTW. -
...they certainly ran into some bad luck of one kind or another with the whole bunch they hired for the back of the plane. And yeah, you can cut them some slack for that. But since the whole exercise seemed like kind of a lazy way to stretch the story in the first place it still makes me grumble. And I do have a tendency to kick the things I like a bit. I mean if I don't like them I'm not watching them so I don't see anything to kick.
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BTW is it just me or has entering posts into talkbacks become incredibly slow and cumbersome here lately ?
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...yeah, I have noticed that a bit. And I hate steak, too, but my wife says if I don't like it I shouldn't eat it. Now I know that's wrong, so think you could sneak a few t-bones and strips onto a torrent site?
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Been a while G100. Red Ned, I see you are still kicking fanny and taking names.
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They have to the end of the season to wrap up the main Oceanic storyline but does anyone else think that the increasingly strong ratings will tempt ABC to create spinoffs? they would have to get on that boat pretty fast so people dont lose interest
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...and as hard to stop, sir. Good to see you.
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"'Curioisity' Riiiiiiight LOL" Well, yeah? If you _really_ need some extra explanations, to try and understand the inner workings of a plot, or the "rules" of a fictional universe (especially when supernatural / science fiction elements are involved) is a hobby of mine. I just find that intellectually stimulating. Some like sudoku, and I like trying to "figure stuff out". Even in movies / series / books I don't particularly enjoy or find critically flawed, I just like to try and make sense of the whole thing (as much as possible, anyway). There's not much more I can tell you, really. And if you really insist on sticking to your off-the-base assumptions and cheap attempts at portraying me in a negative light, go ahead... If that's what rocks your boat. To each his own, I guess...
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yup s'been a while.
And have you any idea how long it takes to encode a T-Bone in HD Red Ned ? heh -
Don't know if anyone answered this for you yet. But Osiris and Set would be your Egyptian correspondence.
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I have made so many cows cry they have bounty on my ass! I am steak eating fool! The only reason why my dog doesn't piss on me when I pass out drunk is because I share a porterhouse with him every month.
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On Day 55 after Desmond blows up the hatch in the other timeline. It began at the Incident. But that's where it ends.
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So he blew up the hatch when the Island was underwater?
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What are some great stories you do like? (nothing too obscure please)
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I know it's essentially an insult to a superior intelligence such as yourself to dumb yourself down and write a popular intriguing show when you have sneered at the incredible stupidity you see in the writing of lost, but give it a go and get back to us.
We'll be waiting with baited breath. -
The answer to both your questions is what I stated earlier. LA X time period is not necessarily an alternate time period. My theory is that its outcome of what is happening during "Temple plot" time period, and "Temple plot" is merely a flashback to LA X time period. Not a "flashsideways". Something will happen on the island that will not only make sure the Lostie's will be rewarded with happy lives will sink the island forever. Already Hurley, Sayid and Shannon are happy. I'm guessing Jack will be redeemed by healing Locke. Something good might come of Charlie's arrest and Jin's detainment, who knows. But the thing is, the LA X story is the final part of the Lost saga. The Temple is the continuous story. No parallel universe. Just flashbacks as usual.
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Given the millions of words that have been spewed about Lost on the net, it's possible someone else already suggested this but if so I missed it.
The two timelines hold very different fates for the Lostaways. Some would be better off in the LA timeline, some better off in the island version. I think that somehow, some way, when this season nears and end, they will be given a way to choose which version they want to be in. Jack, with his ties to Christian Shepherd and thus the mythology and Kate who faces life in prison will both choose the island timeline, whereas Sawyer will choose the LA timestream since in that one Juliet is still alive.
I know this sounds bizarre but consider this: if the ending wasn't bizarre then we'd have all figured it out a while ago. They have to make the show get really weird in order to surprise us given how much analysis this show gets.
And yes this ending I suggest isn't about all the mysteries, it's about the fates of the main characters which ultimately is what the producers care about. -
No, that's in the alternate timeline.
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Or Pizza maybe ;)
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If I was an Other and a defender of the Temple, I'd be kinda shitting my pants if I knew we were letting the monster use only the outer Temple. Or Outer inner spot.
I know exactly what how Temple geography goes, but really.... would you let smokey get that close if he posed the kind of threat the inner Temple Others went fuckin nuts about in the premier? -
I'm not sure if this theory has been posited yet (as there are many hundreds of posts to read through), but let me get in here and give you mine. If it has been said already, IGNORE ME! But if not, I present:
The Fractured Timeline(s) Theory. TM fain88.
Back last season with all the talk about causality and paradox, I was one of the staunch, STAUNCH supporters of the 'Whatever Happened, Happened' paradigm, as in the Losties always went back in time, always shot Ben, screwed the pooch for the Swan station, ad naseum. And nothing could be done differently, because it already had happened. Or would happen. My nose is bleeding.
ANYWAY...I couldn't get over the fact that if they DID cause a paradox, it would mean they'd never crashed. Which would mean they'd never be able to cause the change. Which would mean they'd crash. Again, ad naseum. They couldn't enact Faraday's plan, because that would create said paradox, and the only option left I could think of would be that reality would unravel like a ball of twine, or violently implode on itself like a literal black hole.
I was both right and wrong on both accounts.br>
"It worked." They created the paradox. And reality itself has literally fractured. Two timelines, one where the Losties in 77 are simply blown back through time to their 'present' timeline, and one where 815 never crashed (and many other factors are altered as well; no Shannon on plane, Desmond's +1, Island underwater), are BOTH happening. Reality has, for lack of a better term, 'unraveled.' And two seperate strands of the great Loom of Destiny are existing simultaneously. But this poses some problems.
They're both trying to occupy the same 'space'--reality, as we know it. And when two objects try to occupy the same space? Bad things. Explosions. End of existence.
So the resolution of this season, this entire show, is the righting of the 'Fracture' and hopefully strive for the happy ending (that seems to be sketching together in alt-reality LAX).
Crazy? Perhaps. But it's what I think is happening. -
...yeah, me too in reality. But in truth my wife now won't let me eat them for an entirely different set of cholesterol based reasons. Which is why, G100, I would accept even a 700 mb file.
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But truth to tell, the only thing on the planet that is truly inedible and should be shunned and stoned is: lutefisk!
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What you have to do, is either: A) employ some chicanery -like having a steak at Ditkas for lunch -pay cash BTW. Or - B) Appeal to her baser instincts i.e. diamonds. Give her a diamond ring and tell her there is more where that came from after you stroke out from eating too much steak!
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Yup, that's what I meant when I posted 'To travel between the timelines' earlier.
THAT to me is the big choice this season. Do they have characters travel between them before resolving it onto 1 timeline ? Do they all have to work to destroy one timeline ? Or do they keep them parallel all the way through ?
And there was a hint that the future timeline is the correct one because it started with Kate opening her eyes. It's a 'signature' now for the show. -
...my dad considered them a treat. And oh but they were. Oh but they were.
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Most of your theory I don't really consider a 'theory' but what is clearly going on.
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Mixed with eggs?
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Sayid died and there’s no coming back from the dead as we found out with Locke(maybe he was mostly dead). The message that Jacob gave to Hurley was that they must save Sayid or they are screwed. Leading me to believe that Jacob new that this was going to happen. Which when you think about it explains a lot. He didn’t put up a fight with Ben and this is all part of his master plan. I think it is a chess match between him and the MIB and he’s one step ahead. He knew both he and Sayid were going to die and he made arrangements to inhabit Sayids body once he was dead.Which is not the same as coming back to life.Maybe the only way to do that was at the magic pond. Feel free to tell me how I’m wrong.
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If you cant follow this thread, then please just dont post. I have no energy to destroy trolls today.
"On Day 55 after Desmond blows up the hatch in the other timeline. It began at the Incident. But that's where it ends."
Cause that makes sense right?
If you dont know what a troll is, then guess what? thats what you are. Just cause you post alot of bullshit DOES NOT make you reputable.
Cause I'm sure you would know by now if people respected you, right? -
ThrowMeTheIdol, I'm completely digging that theory. Two different worlds that hold both good and bad for each person. And a choice to make. So how would they seperate them? Makes me think of two things: The Numbers, and Backgammon.
We've seen The Numbers everywhere, and from the Sri Lanka Video know that they are the results of the Valenzetti Equation, and determines the timeline to humanity's mutually assured destruction (or some such). But more than that, they are somehow intrinsically tied to time, causality, EXISTENCE.
So what if one were to find a way to change or alther The Numbers for one of the timelines? Could this be how they seperate the two realities so they can somehow coexist?
And Backgammon--from the very beginning of the show, with Locke's introduction of the game to Walt, the overtones that this is all one massive Backgammon game have been abundant. Light v. Dark, complicated 'Rules', etc. But most importantly is getting your pieces HOME. That's also been around for a while...anybody else play 'Via Domus'? AKA, 'The Way Home'?
Now this. Two realities. Two sides. Two 'Homes' on the Backgammon board for each 'player' to bear his pieces off to.
Yep, I think some people will end up one place and some will end up t'other, then neither the twain shall meet again, happily ever after.
Or maybe one side wins, the first to bear his pieces 'off the board'. And maybe the other side loses... -
...that was not a part of my childhood culinary experience. Had pig snout. Still love hearts, chicken, turkey or beef, which for some reason sickens almost everyone I know. But pig brains and eggs? That sounds grim.
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Awesome! I thought it was pretty obvious too. I just saw all these other crazy theories flying around, I thought I'd set things straight. Y'heardme!
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for the final episode. This site might explode.
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Especially when you mistake the brains for regular sausage and your grandfather and brothers laugh at you - for years afterwards.
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"What are some great stories you do like? (nothing too obscure please)" As far as recent TV shows go, the two titles that immediately spring to my mind would be The Wire and Arrested Development (in two vastly different genres). I really admire how the Wire managed to slowly, methodically create a town, layer by layer, season after season. And I admire the density of the work. Also, the way the show doesn't really hold you by the hand and expects you to patiently "work your way in", slowly learn the characters' lexicons by yourself... I just find that satisfying, rewarding. Te fact the show actually has something to say is like the cherry on the top! As for Arrested Development, I'm impressed by the density (yet again) of it all, the sheer number of gags, running gags, backgrounds gags that the showrunners keep throwing at you. And they actually plan gags ahead, sometimes months, years in advance... Holy shit at the graffiti on the banana stand that tie in with a "shocking reveal" in the series finale two and a half years later. So much work, attention to detail, planning for a _sitcom_? That's absolutely ridiculous, and I mean that in the best possible way. All in all, I guess I just love those relatively complex series that you can revisit over and over again to _still_ find "new" stuff you had never noticed before. I'm also quite fond of movies like Memento or Primer ('guess the second one might be considered obscure, sorry about that), once again, the kind of stories that make you "work", but are so rewarding precisely because of it. Of course, there'd be more examples, but I think this off-topic message is long enough already... (by the way, with all that being said, I think you can see why I tuned in when Lost began airing... it really is a show I would have loved to like... but the damn flaws, the irritating interviews of the showrunners...) 'Hope that answers your question?
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"Tell you what, write your show then get back to us" Please, not that BS again... I've been over that one already, with my new best pal the Comedy Writerrrr...
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Way back in season 1 the writers said The Stand was a big influence and so far it's been exactly that style of story.
Let's also not forget some seriously good acting with characters meeting 'for the first time' very plausably done. Jack and Desmond were very good and the contrast between the 2 Lockes was great. Scared shitless Ben ? Well that's just pure gold. His wrath and revenge will be terrible to behold and he now knows how to keep smoky at bay with the ash.
There would be a nice symmetry to having the 'real' Locke defeat notLocke somehow.
And there's always the possibility that the real ending is for the pawns to step off the board finally forcing Jacob and NotLocke to fuck off and stop playing with peoples lives. -
What the hell are you talking about?
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Come on!, this show is different than other shows in TV. This is what makes it great and iconic. It has its own personality and part of that personality is that they keep the intrigue going by not having the characters demand or provide answers. Otherwise we would have known what is going on within a season. And half the audience would have dropped out if they did not like the answers (ie. religion, or aliens, or government conspiracy). This way they take us in an exciting ride and the real answers are revealed at the end of the show. If people did not like it (i.e BSG), then it does not matter, the show is over anyways. So if you don't like the personality of the show then watch a procedural that uses a more standard writing style.
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Just kidding. Yes, the wire was probably technically speaking a "perfect" TV show. But it was sometimes boring and never took me for ride. Some people like myself want more exitement in my TV shows (24 for example) and don't necessarily want to watch a "reality" television series.
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Okay, thanks. I'm confused by everything he just said to me.
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Bring it. You motherfuckin troll. At least I know my shit..
You steer n queer X'as are Lostpedias biggest BITCH
ANYTIME YOU ARE CALLED OUT: you crawl back to the site and quote shot.
NEVER do you post any of your own theroies. Nothing constructive. ALL BULLSHIT.
ALL TROLL.
Post what you will. Are you trying to be positive? Informative?NO. You posted a huge spoiler on MAJOR NON-SPOILER THREAD. YOU DEAD TO US FUCKER. -
My theory is that the producers are toying with us and this is like season 4. The "alternate" timeline will be the end of the show and what happens in the island is about how they get into the "alternate" timelines. At some point they will do something in the island and it will tie-in with what we saw in episode one and somehow despite the plane not having crashed, they will end up in the island. Or linked to Jacob and MIB.
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No really, we're on the sixth season and these are all new whines and whiners gnawing on the same bare bones of trivia for sustenance while trying to affect an air of "I'm too good for this show" that we weren't buying back then and we aren't buying six seasons later.
Poseurs who somehow don't realize they are still watching the show. If you're watching the show, the show works. If you're watching season 6 of the show and still trying to pretend you're too good for the show, it's escalated from attention seeking behaviour to obsession and borderline pathology. -
Also wondering will anyone be able to cross between the two different worlds.
Early commented about reading Talisman at the moment by Stephen King and Peter Straub, the main character Jack Sawyer is one of a few crossing between worlds.
I could imagine the John Locke of the alt world crossing across to the original world, being on the island being able to walk and replacing Jacob on the island. -
I thought Arrested Development was an okay show. I sort of think people love it a litle more than it deserves because of its underdog or cult status. People love unpretentiousness like that. I think I see why you would like Memento too based on what you said. Any other entertainment you want to mention?
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Feb 03, 2010 9:37:06 PM CST
lostboytexas - if there was any justice with the banhammer
by miyamoto_musashi
you would be gone.
Your spoiler posting on some of those threads was much worse than of the troll comments that say Dioxholster comes up with or the endless drivel from the likes of Olivier, that is almost AsimovLives-esque -
Not sure if anyone said it but the security lady called Sun "Ms. Paik", so are they not married in this reality?
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Thanks for the backup. I think Lost fagtexas is actually Lockesbroken leg.
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yeah I know, not as interesting
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"Some people like myself want more exitement in my TV shows (24 for example) and don't necessarily want to watch a "reality" television series." Naturally. Those were just examples of stories _I_ like, after all. For example, I really, _really_ realize a movie like Primer won't do much for most people (and that's putting it nicely). And as a matter of fact, I do watch 24, too. Just... not for any of the reasons I listed in my post, above, really. It's pretty much a "ride", and I admit I like how ridiculously over the top it is. It's not like I _absolutely_ need my stories to be multi-layered, complex and so on... It's just that when a show promises such a story, I expect it to deliver, I expect it to challenge me, not insult my intelligence, I expect its writers to be extra-careful during the writing process, etc. Lost pretends to be all that, it pretends to be way more than just a "ride" like 24, but I think it seriously fails to deliver (despite the depressing amount of acclaim it's getting). Hence the vitriol. Sorry, fans.
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Ben will kill MIB and die in the process.
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What do you think of Twin Peaks?
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Good point! i just have a feeling when we get the whole spectrum of this reality, many things will be different.
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I hope not, I am hoping it Jack that takes out the MIB or to be more interesting would be Hurley, the not so obvious hero.
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"I thought Arrested Development was an okay show. I sort of think people love it a litle more than it deserves because of its underdog or cult status." Possibly, but I don't think that's the case as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care about the "underdog" factor... "Any other entertainment you want to mention?" There would also be a bunch of good Japanese animated stuff that are well worth watching, in my opinion (like I said at the very beginning of this talkback, before being told that my finding any sort of value in that kind of productions naturally means that I "wouldn't know good television if it fucked [me] in the ass"! AICN talkback quality, right there!). The Ghost in the Shell TV series, Paranoia Agent, Mushishi, the Suzumiya Haruhi series, Bakemonogatari (if only for the banter and the delicious Senjôgahara), Tôkyô Magnitude 8.0, Aoi Hana, Kemonozume... And while not flawless, the When They Cry series give Lost a run for its money when it comes to "bold storytelling" (and it does so with much more humility than Lost, to put it kindly). It kinda amused where people were losing their shit over Lost's "OMG plot-twisting flashforward!! boldest show EVAR!!" when that kind of stuff isn't really considered all that groundbreaking in Japanese popular fiction...
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Anything else I might have seen? Twin Peaks? I can understand why you must hate Lost. It must be frustrating to see such obvious flaws in something yet everyone around you eats it up with a spoon. I've been there too.
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...they started in with all the mystical mumbo jumbo. the egyptian iconography, the mysterious being that can turn into smoke but who is stopped by ash, the ancient temple with it's magical healing waters, all that stupid crap.when Lost was based on SCIENCE, it was great. all that retro 1970's Dharma tech, the Martin Candle vids, the various Dharma stations, the numbers... that stuff was creepy! and i could get involved in that world and get drawn into the whole thing. even time travel and alternate timelines... i'm interested in all that because it's all based on real world science....but now we've firmly entered the realm of magic and spirituality and mystical beings and this whole thing is starting to feel like Harry Potter or the Mummy or something and it's just getting less and less interesting and less and less suspenseful. when you start dealing with immortal shape-shifting beings... you can explain anything in your story by just saying "IT'S MAGIC!!" i can't wait for the spell-casting wizards and the unicorns to show up in the next episode.
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Twin Peaks... Well, I'll lose a bunch of street cred points on that one ('not pretending I had any to begin with!), but I never got the chance to really sit and enjoy the entire course of the show in good conditions. It's been on the "to do list" for years, now. But from what I know (?), I shouldn't expect tidy conclusions or anything like that... something that might not bother me _all that much_ considering the "Lynch mood" alone should make the show worth watching anyway.
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"if we do this there will be consequences." so he knew going in something would happen and Sayid would be not quite right.
I don't think it can be "Jacob" because we already know MIB did NOT inhabit Lockes body, just took his form. Sayids body never disappeared and there are not two of him
Cuse and Mini-Me said that it was not "entirely right" about Jacob now being Sayid...this is going to be in-ter-est-ing!!!
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It sort of created the mold the Lost now follows as far as bringing up weird mysteries about the mythology of the setting. It would have all kinds of weird, unexplainable stuff happen and fans would discuss the meaning of in ancient early 90s talkbacks. Just like Lost. Then, later the writers revealed that they did just pull most of it out of their asses and it didn’t mean anything – just to be weird. I think people were more accepting of it in Twin Peaks since Lost is a show that sets up logical expectations while Twin Peaks was just more about the Lynchian imagery of the weirdness. I was just curious if you would find that show acceptable or not. But if you like shows that create their own detailed story universes you should give it a try.
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There's a change right there. The result of course is to bring Locke and Jack together and ultimately heal Locke. (no forward planning in having Jack be a spinal surgeon of course. which I remember being discussed in season 1 with regards to Locke) Kudos too goes to the evolving musical themes with the Temple theme being another memorable addition.
Oh and Primer is hardly some ultra obscure French Arthouse Movie. I know plenty of people who have seen it. Yes it's a very clever structure but it still needed the spare matter of fact atmospherics and excellent acting to carry it over into an entertaining Movie rather than a dull plodding join the plot dots. You want more of the same ? Frequently Asked Questions About Time Travel does Primer things with a broader more Science Fiction style and some great comedy. -
I have to say I don't really understand when people talk about Lost going from science (or pseudo-science, at the very least) to "magic". The kind of science you'd need to explain all that crazy stuff that was going on in the first couple of seasons is so... advanced/not-from-this-world that I'd say it _was_ "magic" already (insert obligatory Clarke quote here: "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic").
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Show me a scientific basis for a sentient being made out of smoke, or dead people comnig back to life, or for that matter, please quote me the test and control groups used in the study of alternate timelines, with repeated observation, using the 5 senses. And don't quote me a bunch of philosophy "justified" by a bunch of math either
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The alternate timeline will end up becoming the real timeline and erase the other one from existence. This means that none of the characters will have gone to the island, met each other, struggled to survive, suffered, died, and changed. The island is at the bottom of the ocean, destroyed. You’ll be left wondering whether it is a happy ending or not.
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I love Lost, and I am an atheist, a Richard Dawkins like atheist.
I have issues when social policy is based on a 2,000 year old book of fairytales, i.e. use of condoms, view on slavery, treatment of women etc.
But not what it comes to stories, fables. Anyone with an open mind that reads the bible knows that the stories in the bible are not original they are old stories that have been around for thousands and thousands of years, maybe changed a bit, altered a little, but these are essentially human fables, they have been part of human history since day one in some shape and form, they are interesting and enjoyable.
Some are there because they had no way to explain the working of the universe, some were there to deal with phillosophical issues. All are worthwhile and interesting.
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I think they only mean to claim that the things on the show follow logical rules even if they are not found in the real world. Meaning they don’t just have magic stuff out of nowhere.
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the overly quoted arthur c clarke quote
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"I think people were more accepting of it in Twin Peaks since Lost is a show that sets up logical expectations while Twin Peaks was just more about the Lynchian imagery of the weirdness." And I agree. From what I know, Twin Peaks dealt with (literally) nightmarish dimensions, and that's kind of setting that gives a free pass for all kind of randomness. I think as soon as Locke and Boone stumbled upon that metallic hatch, you could pretty much scratch the possibility that Lost would be going the same route. Very early on, you could still consider theories like "they're all dead and in purgatory" as entirely valid, but the hatch was pretty much saying "whatever's wrong with this island, it is (somewhat) grounded to reality, not just a dream or anything like that". Plus, I seem to remember the writers were promising down-to-Earth explanations as well ("nothing like time travel and the like!", they said... well, no, of course not, that would be downright _silly_, now, wouldn't it?!). Speaking of which, how they intended to make good on those promises is another matter (the ghosts were just holographic projections? whatever killed the pilot was just some... huge... animal?)... Maybe they were just trying to reassure ABC who supposedly didn't want to hear about supernatural stuff, at the time?
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that's what i'm saying! i never liked the smoke monster, or the dead people walking around. if i was writing the show i never would have included that stuff.with the smoke, at least in the earlier seasons there was an attempt to give it some sort of 'mechanical' basis (the metallic chain-like sounds it made) but as they used the smoke monster more and more it became impossible to explain it as some sort of dharma defense system (when the thing started to read peoples minds or whatever).this stuff has always made me uneasy. i'm just saying that now that they have revealed what the smoke actually is, they have made the MAGIC aspects of the show undeniable & unavoidable. the temple & the healing waters just pushed it over the top for me. i was just sitting there thinking "what happened to this show?"
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Feb 03, 2010 10:40:14 PM CST
Everything has happened before and shall happen again
by paragoncomplex
I wonder if the finale will have some sort of Caprica Six/Gaius/Opera House moment where things, little things, we've seen and heard over the past years will come together in a big way for one giant reveal?
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Sort of, it did deal with some supernatural things. But it was also a mystery and you expected some things they showed you to have a greater significance that was hidden. I was disappointed after watching it and finding out that a lot of the more interesting mysteries were just random stuff with no meaning. I guess where you draw the line comes down to personal taste. The show crossed that line for me so I was disappointed. Overall, I still think it’s pretty good.
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your theory or what you had said is what im saying (maybe not as clearly)...I call LAX a alt timeline cuz it is to us...for the LAX losties, its business as usual...
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...I agree wit that Jacobs death is apart of his plan (and if so, he one badass god/deity/soothsayer/miss cleo/etc) especially since in my opinion, he ENCOURAGED or pushed Ben to kill him...cuz seriously, Jacob was an asshole to Ben
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...thats my theory on this season that what has happened will happen again...thats why we're seeing 2 different timelines (the reg timeline will be corrected leading to the formation of LAX timeline/reality)...but unlike the BSG finale (them landing on earth leadin up to modern civilization), Lost will be presenting both timelines simultaneously
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needs to go back and relearn his Daddy's NINTH rule.
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...I believe MIB and Locke are the same...MIB hid in the foot while smokie came through the front door, then MIB appeared again in the foot...why would MIB hide, escape, come back in, disappear, then reappear when he could just have turned into smokie in front of them?
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"I think they only mean to claim that the things on the show follow logical rules even if they are not found in the real world. Meaning they don’t just have magic stuff out of nowhere." But you could also very well have a story dealing with magic while at the same time sticking to a precise set of rules that make sense. I'd say the problem isn't really whether you're dealing with realistic science, almost-but-not-quite true science, "complete" science fiction (interdimensional beings and all that jazz, for example) or magic/ pure fantasy... It's that, unlike Twin Peaks with its literally nightmarish dimensions and its inherent weirdness/randomness, Lost "promised" a story that would be coherent/make sense. Not necessarily a _realistic_ story (in fact, I don't believe there was ever a time when you could really hope Lost would stick with "real science"), but a coherent one. No random "stuff out of nowhere" (as you put it, Dapper Swindler). And that's where the show lost me: randomness abounds. "So Desmond turned the key, and naturally, the station imploded (so much cooler than an explosion), and naturally, that didn't kill the characters who were still in it, and look, it just turned this one guy into a naked time-traveler. ... Don't ask, just go with it." Sorry, show, but that's all extremely random. I don't care if Jacob is a deity, an alien from Dimension X or whatever (for one thing, it's all just a matter of perspective in the end, and the show established from the get-go that it would have supernatural elements, be they "super science" or fantasy), but spare me the _randomness_. "I'm going after your daughter because I can't kill you: that would be against _the rules_!" Er... OK, but what exactly are those "rules" I had never heard about until now? Where's the rulebook? Who wrote it? How does that all work, exactly? Will we _ever_ get to that, or am I just supposed to go "oh, fine, if it's a _rule_, then!"?
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I know my shit on LOST. I call you out cause you have no clue and do no research besides rape lostpedia to back your shit up.
You motherfucker, you dont tell me what to do. After pulling that shit n our boards. No matter what you say, you dont own me fuckface. -
In fact a very wise writer once said that the more fantastic elements you put into a story, the more closely you must follow them up with logical rules. But you already know my stance on Lost. It’s not randomness if there is an explanation. You’re just already sure there is none. I believe there could be and am withholding final judgment until it’s all over.
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If Lost does fail to explain the answers to those questions you bring up then I will hate the show too. Probably a lot more than you since I would have been made a fool of by loving the show.
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Sawyer will try and con Hurley in the ALt timeline, they will become friends and Sawyer will go to work at Mr. Clucks!
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If you apply Silver Age comics rules, where Green Lantern, a hero with what is clearly "a magic ring" can be explained in science fiction terms then Lost could step back from the mythology and establish what a lot of the philosophers here have been saying for years: Jacob and Nemesis are aliens, their shape shifting, mind reading, immortality, turning to smoke etc. abilities are "super powers" and the Island is build up over the crash site of an alien space ship.A few years ago I would have scoffed at that "the island is a space ship" talk. but now I'd almost prefer it to the series being a metaphor about God and Lucifer (or some Egyptian versions of Odin and Loki.)
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Feb 04, 2010 12:08:03 AM CST
Olivier - I just had an interesting thought about you
by dapper swindler
You believe that all the questions on the show are completely random and just a cheap trick to build mystery. Therefore, you hate the show. That’s understandable, I would hate it too if I also believed that. And I will if it proves to be true. But consider this – just what if you are wrong? I know you are 100% certain you are right. But consider what it would mean if you were wrong hypothetically. What if every seemingly random question and every crazy mystery actually had a sensible, detailed, and completely logical explanation within the story’s universe. Well, it would have to be a pretty fucking brilliant show right? Almost impossibly brilliant. See, that’s my point. Maybe Lost is so brilliant that you refuse to believe such a brilliant show could exist. So instead you believe that it’s all just cheap randomness. I just think it’s funny that there is a possibility that the show is so brilliant that it made you hate it by being so unbelievably brilliant. Or, you could be right and it’s all just cheap randomness. We’ll see.
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DC's Crisis On Infinite Earths didn't mean the Golden and Silver age comics "never happened", they just created a point at which those time-lines ceased to exist and were replaced with a new single time-line that had not previously existed.I gather the Faraday Event (bomb explosion plus magnetic reflux) caused the ongoing Lost time-line we'd followed for five years to cease to exist and be replaced by two other time-lines. One a close parallel, one a "what if" variant.
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The guy clearly needs to get more action, or has spending too much time with AssimovLives.
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too often people complain about the deus ex machina easy ending explanation for everything, but to me, saying "oh well, theres some fantastical stuff here, lets just say its all aliens" is just as much a lazy writing cop-out IMO.
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loved the Final Crisis run. Crazy, bizarre stuff man
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"you already know my stance on Lost. It’s not randomness if there is an explanation. You’re just already sure there is none. I believe there could be and am withholding final judgment until it’s all over." I completely understand. As you might imagine, I think that's quite the optimistic stance, but I can perfectly understand that you see me as overly pessimistic on the contrary. 'Guess it pretty much boils down to how much faith we have in the writers. At this point, I personally have virtually zero faith in them (and zero respect for them as writers). Both because of the flaws I find in the show itself, and because of all that stuff I see them saying in interviews and such (like the thing agent22 mentioned above, for example... when I read that, it's hard for me not to go "well, no wonder the show is a trainwreck!"). "What if every seemingly random question and every crazy mystery actually had a sensible, detailed, and completely logical explanation within the story’s universe. Well, it would have to be a pretty fucking brilliant show right?" Indeed. How fantastic would it be if I were wrong, and the show somehow (miraculously?) managed to tie everything up tidily! Shit, I'd gladly eat crow. I just don't see that happening (to me, the recent interviews scream of clumsy damage control already)...
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The losties and the Dharma van got sent forward in time to 2007, at the blown up Swan site. Are Rose, Bernard, and Vincent also in 2007, still chilling at their beachfront property?
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The losties and the Dharma van got sent forward in time to 2007, at the blown up Swan site. Are Rose, Bernard, and Vincent also in 2007, still chilling at their beachfront property?
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If Christian and Tall Walt and backwards talking Walt and Kate's Horse and possibly The Hurley Bird were... well let's say shape shifting aliens known to us as Jacob and his Nemesis... then all appearances by dead people returning on the island have been one of the Smokey's, then there has NEVER been a case of a human with demonic possession or a dead character resurrected on the island. Except we have Charlie (killed by Nathan and revived), Mikhail (survived "fatal" collision with electrical barrier), and now Sayid (shot and drowned, then awakened) and alternate timeline Charlie (choked on condom full of heroin, revived when air pipe cleared). So there is lots of resurrection. But we know that Ben Linus killed John Locke and he never revived from the dead after being strangled and hung, and all appearances of "UnLocke were actually Nemesis in the form of Locke. (And yet Locke was shot and left for dead, but we accept it was a case of "bullet passed through where his kidney would have been" even though he still should have bled to death from his entrance and exit wounds, so that wasn't a "resurrection". So, okay, the Island can bring the dead back (or not) (which could mean Nikki and Paolo have been revived this whole time, just unable to dig themselves out from under six feet of sand).But whether the Island resurrects folks or not, there has never been a case of possession of one entity in the body of another. So why does anyone think Jacob has reanimated Sayid, or that his body is possessed by Juliet's spirit?Speaking of Ghost Whisperer territory, SAwyer says Miles is the only one who talks with ghosts, but we know Hurley has either seen ghosts or been hallucinating Charlie. And apparently Nemesis can read the minds of the dead since he knows what Locke's final thoughts were.
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If you plan a story and at the beginning or early on, you decide that the man behind the curtain is in fact "god" (mythical sense) or an alien etc is it still lazy writing ?
I get it that, if the writer/creator has no idea, told to finish a story and then on a whim decides, "god did it", that it is lazy, but if they had it planned from the start, then its just the completion of the story.
I don't think there can be an answer that Lost writers come up with that could satisfy everyone, hell even a large majority, whatever the outcome people like Olivier or AssimovLives will find faults with it.
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Rose, Bernard and Vincent, that's one thing, but what about all the other (mute) survivors? Remember those guys? 'Seems like it was ages ago, huh? Were they really all killed by those flaming arrows? Just like that? 'Gotta love how the main characters don't seem to be losing sleep over that at all. Poor extras.
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However, if you set up a series of complex mysteries for five or six years - and clearly they're giving us answers but still tossing us new questions like "what's going on now?" and "Who are these guys?" - you either come up with a finish or you don't.They could go the Prisoner or Twin Peaks route and leave mysteries unanswered - which is what a lot of talkbackers fear. Or they can answer it in a way that ties up most or all of the mysteries.The two easy answers are "Jacob and Nemesis are aliens and the Island is a space ship crash site" and "Jacob and Nemesis are two ancient mythological/spiritual beings". I'm just saying that of those three options - SciFi, Fantasy or no answers - "They're aliens/it's a space ship" seems the least objectionable to me. Sure I'm hoping they come up with something better (and certainly far more complex and satisfying) than any of those
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Great reply. We’re totally on the same page now. Just for the record, I don’t think the show will answer everything which will make it less than perfect. I actually had a summer project where I attempted to catalogue all the unresolved mysteries on the show, so I’m very aware of all the unanswered questions. But I do think it will answer a lot more than you think, including those questions you bring up. So we’ll meet back here after the finale and one of us will have egg on their face.
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"there is lots of resurrection" And again, there would be that girl in Eko's flashback who drowned and came back to life with all kind of info regarding Eko and his brother (hyperthermia, my ass!). Ah, the memories... 'Feels like it was another show. I mean, it _really_ does.
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My excuse to buy a Blu Ray player, though knowing my luck with technology the day after I buy the Blu Ray Player and the Complete set of Lost on Blu Ray, someone will announce some new better technology.... "The Complete Set of Lost now on CRYSTAL"
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"I do think it will answer a lot more than you think, including those questions you bring up." Well, I would hope it will answer _some_ questions, yes! ^_^; And even if it doesn't answer _all_ of them (like you just said yourself, that doesn't seem realistic an expectation, huh? ^^), I'd be quite impressed if it answered the ones I asked here and solved the contradictions (well, what really looks like contradictions _to me_, at the very least) I listed in this talkback. Glad we're on the same page (for that, anyway!).
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why do any of them have to be objectionable? Who are these 'fans' who go around hoping to find a tv show thats written exactly the way they see it in their head? Who are these fans looking for things to offend them? People need to get a life or do their own show, period. Oh and Vikki, I need a Constant and I was wondering if we could discuss Frank Morrison lunacy over dinner?
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Feb 04, 2010 1:20:05 AM CST
I can't believe I'm replying to Ollie Hague...no offense...
by vikkimarsdale
I don't think we saw the outcome of all 44 815 passengers. I believe that Steve and Tracy were part of the group with Locke that was attacked by mercenaries but they were not given on screen deaths and may have escaped and survived. We did see Cindy Zach and Emma this episode. But starting with Gary Troup sucked into a turbine and Joanna swimming out to drown and Scott killed by Nathan and Nikki and Paolo's burial and up to Neil "Frogurt" being hit by a flaming arrow, a lot if not all of the "anonymous extras/redshirts" have been accounted for.There was a badly injured man Jack helped on the beach in the pilot. Never seen again, I think we can assume he didn;t survive his injuries. There were a number of confrontations with The Others. Over the course of that 108 days the group was whittled down. Yeah, it seemed like whanever Jack wanted to lead another cross-island hike there was always a party of an anonymous dozen or twenty followeres. But that group split when five went with Locke (and three were given on screen deaths, though they went down like target practice rabbits.) And of the remaining group, yes, there was a major attack by mercenaries with automatic weapons, grenades, and orders to kill everyone, and a major massacre with that flaming arrows attack. So I wold guess that we can consider that all of the redshirt 815ers have been eliminated. (Yes, I hope Steve and Tracy survived, but I really don't expect to see them again. maybe they're Adam and Eve.) I was delighted to see Cindy, Zach and Emma in the Others camp and Neil and Arzt in the LA X timeline.
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Feb 04, 2010 1:24:07 AM CST
" ...certainly far more complex and satisfying than any of those
by miyamoto_musashi
Think its impossible for them to meet your expectations, that is not a free pass, but I really don't think people's expectation will be met on the answer's side of things in regards to the key questions of what is the island, what is the origin of Jacob and MIB.
If the origins of Jacob and MIB is that they are creations, then the question turns to the origin of the creator.
My feeling is that we won't get a concrete answer on who created the island or what it is. I also think we may not get a strong answer on who or what created Jacob and MIB, but I think we will get an answer on the purpose, ie. testing of humans or something like that.
Their origins, the island's origin will be left for something for us to ponder and debate -
When the LOST Whiners (hard to call them LOST Haters since they keep obsessively watching it)try to compare the show to what Roger Ebert calls The Idiot Plot. The Idiot Plot is the kind of plot that can only exist if the characters never stop and ask the obvious questions that would occur to logical intelligent rational human beings. Ebert loves applying this to modern romantic comedies where people have relationship problems and misunderstandings that could be cleared up with a five minute conversation.The problem with applying that sort of "plot driven" theory to the LOST characters is that it completely ignores WHAT ACTUALLY GOES ON ON THE SHOW!The characters on LOST are NOT people who just go along with whatever's thrown at them. They are Constantly Arguing. Constantly Questioning. Constantly Trying to Figure Out WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?Jack argues with Locke. Jack argues with Kate. Sawyer takes the piss out of all three of them. And everyone else he comes across. EVERY character that's ever been on this show from Rose and Bernard down to Nikki and Paulo, has asked questions and demanded answers. And every character that's ever been on this show has also had to lie, pretend, keep secrets and hide things from people they care about. They all demand information. And withold it.And if they sometimes behave illogically or irrationally or unintelligently: SO FUCKING WHAT? They aren't Vulcans. They're complex believable human characters in situations that range from soap opera to goofy comedy to the most preposterous science fiction conceits that have ever been seen on television. And they NEVER STOP TALKING about what's going on.
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"I can't believe I'm replying to Ollie Hague...no offense..." Er... None taken? ... I guess...? ^^; "I was delighted to see Cindy, Zach and Emma in the Others camp and Neil and Arzt in the LA X timeline." That was nice, indeed. "Oh, so they're not completely forgotten after all!" But what would be even nicer would be an explanation regarding those kidnappings, the lists, etc. Why take them specifically? And one has to wonder if something drastic (brainwashing? epiphany?) didn't happen to Cindy, considering her strange behavior back in season 3, and how she so readily joined the Others... Answers, please? The clock, she is ticking!
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It's not like we haven't heard the same crap 1000 times before on almost every other lost talkback.
They are the ones still watching yet still incapable of understanding what that means.
Most find these peculiar people sad. But lets face it, there's nothing more ridiculous than spending hours of their time bringing up the same trivia when they have Zero prospect of convincing anyone here to suddenly switch off (when they don't and have to come up with ever more hilarious excuses why) or change anyone else's minds about the show because of their own imagined grievances.
At least the failed jealous writers and envious plants from other shows and networks would have a rational reason for their bitter hatred. These oddball others are just natural cranks and contrarian attention seekers. -
The Idiot Plot as you said is about resolving conflicts, so even if the characters questioned these events, they still cant do shit about it for the most part. because its like knowing where babies come from but not knowing how they were created. LOST should have never been about answering questions but as it stands today thats what has come of it and thats why it will fail. once something becomes explained and understood, the mystery is gone and turns mediocre. Swayer is a favortie because he applied real world attitude to extra-worldly situations, all of them shouldve behaved in the same manner instead of caring about islands and saving the world.
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"The Idiot Plot is the kind of plot that can only exist if the characters never stop and ask the obvious questions that would occur to logical intelligent rational human beings." Indeed. Again, let's remember Jack's plan at the end of season 2, shall we? "Let's pretend we don't know that Michael has been turned, and just follow him wherever!" Er... You mean, following him right into the trap you now know exists? That's your plan? Shit, I wonder how that's going to end... "Nononono! Don't worry about that, because we'll be using Desmond's boat to send Saying to the Others' camp!" Errrrm... Yes? And? How will that help? I mean, you don't even know where or when they intend to spring the trap on you, so... And heck, why are you even assuming the Others' camp is really where Michael told you it was, considering we've established the guy was lying to you? Are you also thinking Sayid can overpower the Others simply because _Michael_ said they wouldn't be a problem? I don't... "Oh, and Sayid! Don't forget to light a fire!" Waitwait, what? Why would you...? "So this time, _they_ will know _we_'re coming!" Errrrr... Yeah, that's quite the dramatic comeback, but why in the blue hell would you want them to know? Isn't that... I dunno, a "bad thing", strategically speaking? Element of surprise and all that? I mean, it doesn't look like you have a lot going for you already, so why go ahead and ruin the one thing that might just tip the balance in your... "OK, let's go!" ... Good luck, I guess...? (hours later...) "OH NOES, A TRAP!!"
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Feb 04, 2010 1:42:52 AM CST
Smoke Monster is from the void created by electromagnetism
by dioxholsterreturns
so its an alien in a sense i think.
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"The Children" were taken by the Others because of the fertility issue. Pregnant women on the island die, so the only way to increase their ranks is to recruit at an early enough age to re-educate. Cindy was not specifically targeted, she was the last in line on the Tailies march to the beach. However, since she was a Stewardess, someone trained in helping people and providing service, she was a perfect choice to serve as The Childrens nanny - a familiar and comforting face to pevent them from panicking. After about three and a half years she does seem to have what's it, Stockholm syndrome, in that she's adapted to her own reality: she's a permanent prisoner of The Others and has gotten used to being one of them now. If her behavior on Bear Cage Island seemed strange in that she adapted so quickly to staying with the Others rather than trying to escape, well, part of that was her looking out for the childrens best interests, and part may have been resentment over the fact that she was kidnapped and NONE of the Tailies or 815ers ever tried to rescue her.
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you will see.
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Lost Talkback quote t-shirt of the day.(Yeah, not like my posts aren't full of typos two. 8) )Of cuorse Swayer is a favortie - that's why he's always on the crove of TV Giude magazein,
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I was overjoyed to see Cindy, Zach and Emma. Leslie and Neil kinda reminded me of why everyone thought they were jerks all along and were glad they went boom or were hit with a flaming arrow.Speaking of which, another thing I likes was that "I never liked him" character Bram getting pwned. He thought his cute li'l circle of protection would save him from Smokey? Then Smokey dropped a chunk of roof on him, and once he was knocked out of the circle he slapped him against the wall a bit and impaled him on a crate. Now THAT was delightful, in a sadistic sort of way.
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Cindy may have been taken to Room 23 for reeducation or, as you call it, brainwashing.
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Remember that episode? Good, cause apparently the producers don't. In that ep, Jack was treated like some kind of Messiah with all the Others staring at him in awe. How come nobody shows any reaction this time around, even when he states his name? Even the stewardess and the kids don't give a damn. How come???
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That's the WHOLE POINT. These people aren't Heroes! They're FUCKED UP LOSERS who have made, are making and will continue to make: BAD CHOICES! I never said they were geniuses who never make mistakes and always do the right thing. Haven't you been watching? A doctor who's an emotional basketcase. A fugitive. A con man. A pathetic bald cripple who thinks he's an action hero. A fat mental patient who talks to dead people. An Iraqui torturer. A drug addict. 2 or 3 dysfunctional couples. A guy who's sexually obsessed with his stepsister. A disgraced ex cop. An African crime lord. And so on and so on.These are the people you're demanding make sensible rational decisions on a regular basis while they're trapped on an island filled with people who are trying to kill them in the past, present, future and possibly alternate realities?Oooooookaaaaaay.
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"That's the WHOLE POINT. These people aren't Heroes! They're FUCKED UP LOSERS who have made, are making and will continue to make: BAD CHOICES!" You mean, downright _moronic_ ones? Sorry, but coming from Jack (the leader of the Losties) and Sayid (pretty much established as being the tactician/brain of the Losties), that was a fucking TERRIBLE plan on MANY levels. And yet, they seemed quite confident about it. That plot, right there, was an "idiot plot", by the Ebert definition of the term. And the fact it was one of the major plots of a fucking season climax (not just a minor subplot in passing) makes it even worse. "These are the people you're demanding make sensible rational decisions" So _whenever_ something looks like an idiot plot, you can play the "these characters are all fucked up in the head!" card, and there you go: problem solved? How convenient! That means you just _can't_ write an idiot plot in Lost! It's simply _impossible_, because you have that magical "free pass", that "get out of jail" card right there! I believe you just made the writer's livers a whole lot simpler, really! C'mon, man... That's some weak-ass rebuttal.
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Otherwise, it's just kinda gross, really...
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I like LOST. It is bad show but I like it anyways. The acting is bad. But the smoke monster makes the bad acting ok. the music is bad and the music is used too much. Time travel and Hydrogen bombs are better without sappy repetitive music. In old country tv has too much music and cliche character dynamic so I flee to america and it is same here but in america there is mystery island with smoke monster who is wheelchair man that walks and people who jump in time and this is good and it make the bad ok. I think. Hurley will make it all ok. I think. Thank you goodbye
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DUR!
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For the record, I never had a problem understanding anything MacFaux ever posted - even tho I didn't always AGREE, right or wrong or whatever - tho I never really cared for the song lyrics..
that's what the scroll button is good for
maybe I'm "smart" or at least well-read? but if you couldn't figure it out, that's YOUR problem - and I really couldn't care less about your problems (unless they're a problem with the show)
so anyway...
two things-
first, how can the LAX scenes NOT be 2004?? seriously! is Claire PREGNANT or the single mother of a 3yr old?
second, whoever mentioned the "Hidden Fortress" - love it! I saw (yet) another SW reference (again) with Jacob timing his demise oh so perfectly - "come on Ben! strike me down so I can be more powerful than you could possibly imagine!" -
"how can the LAX scenes NOT be 2004?? seriously! is Claire PREGNANT or the single mother of a 3yr old?" Well, I guess one could always argue that in this alternate reality, Claire got pregnant later... But yeah, I think it's pretty clear it's meant to be an alternate 2004. Stuff like the very first lines regarding Jack's-not-very-strong-drink being absolutely identical to the original 2004 dialogue sure seem to hint at an alternate version of the 2004 flight, not another flight altogether years later. Or it would be clumsy writing, anyway...
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You're still not getting it. If that plan was so lousy, what would have been better? Saying "Fuck You Michael, We're not Going!"? They needed INFORMATION more than anything else. Who are the Others? Where are they? How many of them are there? Weapons, capabilities etc etc. What would staying put and waiting for more of their fellow survivors to be killed or kidnapped have accomplished?Think about the characters who have more knowledge and more power than Jack or Sayid. Are THEIR plans any smarter? Do they achieve their desired objective? Ultimately, in the long run?The Show isn't over yet, but at this point would you say that Ben Linus is smarter than they are? Has Charles Widmore gotten anything he's wanted? Eloise Hawking? Richard Alpert?I'm more interested in the plans the writers have for these characters than the plans the characters have. You think the writers have no plan. The fact that the repercussions of what you see as poor planning on the part of Jack and Sayid are still paying off dramatically and thematically four years later prove you wrong not me.
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Feb 04, 2010 3:24:05 AM CST
stop feeding the troll or he'll come back for every lost talkbac
by hercworshiper
Seriously Oliver Hague.. I've never seen someone who hates something so much waste so much time discussing it. Get a life loser.
Stop responding to him or he'll come back to every talkback this season. -
"If that plan was so lousy" It sure was. "what would have been better? Saying "Fuck You Michael, We're not Going!"?" Well, _yes_. Obviously (?). "They needed INFORMATION more than anything else. Who are the Others? Where are they? How many of them are there? Weapons, capabilities etc etc." All they needed to do was to confront Michael about his lies, get the truth from him, and try and go check on that supposed camp _on their own schedule and terms_. Quietly following Michael in the jungle? Too dumb for words. The scene where they discuss that plan is just fucking surreal. Sayid assumes (for some reason??) that the trap will be set at the camp (which, they also assume, is right where Michael said it was, because Michael is obviously a trustworthy source right now). Then we learn that they need to pretend they trust Michael because "all [they] have is the element of surprise" (whuh?? where's the link between those two ideas?), and in the same breath, they discuss how they're going to light a fire and produce some big-ass black smoke so that "this time, they'll know we're coming"... Like, what was it you were you saying about the element of surprise being all you had _just seconds ago_? Really, the whole dialogue between those two is unbelievable. Hilariously nonsensical. Well, _if you think about it_, of course. And I can imagine Lost is a much better show overall when you don't.
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after they die in 2007 on the island. It makes sense too because Juliette seemed to realize that as she was dying, and Sayid talked about where he's gonna go after he dies, but had his face in the water so he couldn't say what he was seeing. Maybe reincarnation is the overall theme of the show and the island messed that up somehow, so that instead of reincarnating into new lives, they're just going back to lives they had before the island "disturbance".
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Richard Alpert told Sun he saw Jack, Kate, Hurley die, and he said this to her less than 24 hours before the temple Others, standing next to Hurley and Jin, lit the flare. How frustrating is it that Sun and Jin are now in the same time and a few miles from each other???
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but this time all the mess actually means something!!!
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let me suggest something to you - and this is going to make me sound like a real prick (let's face it, we all are, sometimes)
people are stupid - well, actually more like... people - even smart people - can be pretty stupid sometimes
we drink too much, eat too much, burn dead leaves and inhale it, fuck people we really shouldn't, ignore others in distress whenever possible, make stupid bets, crash our cars, lie, steal - we're deeply flawed - and we tend to make the same mistakes over and over again
oh - and we type angry letters on the internet directed at what for all we know could just be software
(for me anyway) the most interesting characters aren't the "perfect" ones that always make the right decisions, say the right things, whatever - these people don't actually exist
I'm much more entertained by characters who actually fuck up occasionally - they resonate a bit more (with me), you know?
so I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this- I don't really disagree with any of the points you bring up, per se...
these characters have done some pretty stupid things, not said anything or said the wrong thing at the right time, not made the connection between x and y or whatever - they're flawed...
...and that's just how I like them to be
just one more thing - you mentioned departing writers making statements about the show - reminded me of a rumour I heard back at the end of S2, I think? *apparently* the four toed statue ("the foot") was a kind of "fuck you!" by departing writers to new staff - this at a point where the show still has no end-date - basically challenging them to "make sense of THAT!"
ever hear that rumour? did the Statue become the new Cabin? or is there just a little bit of bullshit in that rumour?
does it really matter? -
Whoa! Am I the only one who didn't realize until rewatching the premiere that in the alternate timeline, Jin and Sun aren't married!? When Jin gets caught with all the money and taken away for questioning, the female Customes officer refers to Sun as Ms. Paik, NOT Mrs. Kwon.
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Sure, characters are flawed, etc... But come on: in this specific case, we're not talking about goofy characters like Hugo or Charlie... It's Jack and Sayid. They've been established as being reasonably intelligent people. Not perfect or anything, sure, but still _reasonably intelligent_. So when their IQ suffer such a drastic and momentary drop for no apparent reason, there's a problem. The resulting plan isn't just kinda shaky, it's borderline _surreal_ in its ineptness. And yet, Jack and Sayid appear to be just fine with it (heck, they're downright confident about it! "this time, they'll know _we_'re coming!"... see also Jack's behavior on the way: "naaah, no need to try and catch those Others who were spying on us..."). That's the very definition of "idiot plan". I mean, if that's _not_ an "idiot plot", _just what is an example of an idiot plot_? If saying characters can be flawed or have bad days "excuses" this plot, then where are the true "idiot plots" in movies or TV series in general, and why did those ones fail to get the same kind of free pass you're giving Lost? Couldn't you play that same "people are flawed" card in pretty much _any_ case, no matter the TV series/movie? "*apparently* the four toed statue ("the foot") was a kind of "fuck you!" by departing writers to new staff" Ha! No, I hadn't heard that one. Downright mean if true!
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which is why you watch fucked up shows like LOST. i rather watch paint dry. SG-1 RULEZ!
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Oh, well spotted. I stopped at wondering if Sun still secretly knew English in that alternate reality or if she truly didn't understand a word the airport staffer was saying.
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seemed like a good idea at the time
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Here is the precise plan:
SAYID: This camp Michael is leading you to across the Island—that is where they will set their trap. While Michael leads you by land, I can approach far more quickly by sea. And I can go ashore undetected.
JACK: Go ashore and do what?
SAYID: Scout them—their numbers and positions, their weapons. Then I'll go to the nearest beach and start a signal fire with these [he holds up some leaves]. They burn with a dark, black smoke. You and your team will come to meet me at the signal and we will go in together.
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Jaka made an interesting, non-confrontational point above about people finding their religion in their everyday lives and he gets mercilessly attacked and told he's a pagan moron that will burn in hell. Why is it that everything else in modern society has evolved (science, medicine, technology, politics, etc.) but these walls have been put up around religion to keep it exactly where it's been for 2000 years? If you tried to convince someone of scientific theories from even 500 years ago you would get laughed at, but people will defend to the death religious books written thousands of years ago as if there is no room for error. It really amazes me.MacFaux, do some critical thinking and start asking yourself REAL questions about organized religion and the Bible. Just because someone doesn't agree with what you believe doesn't mean they're a moron. You're just showing your herd mentality with statements like that, and maybe someday you'll realize this frame of mind is the motivation behind thousands of years of religious atrocities. Wake up.
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The writers of Lost assume the audience does not need everything spoon-fed to them. The characters are written consistently (well, since the end of the second season at least) and everything you need to know is explained. I have admitted there were a couple times during the run, that I thiought a few more questions should have been asked, but there was nothing that needed to be explained in the premiere.
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I don't know a single person who watches it, and I never even hear it referenced by anyone, unless Dioxholster is trolling on a forum...
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It was Faraday's idea. Yes, Jack instinctively felt it was right, but the concept had it's basis in the genius Faraday as well. Jack trusted Faraday's plan. Now, the whole "I did it because I want Kate" Bullshit was the worst part of last year's season ender. Second worst scene of the season next to Locke going out like a punk.
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Yes, we all remember that John was told a wheelchair-bound man could not participate in walkabout. My posts are long enough without including every last detail. The important point was that he planned and made his trip to Australia in '04, and rodv would have us accept that he for some reason delayed that trip for 3 years. I agree it's awfully sad to see him smile at Boone and tell that lie. Makes one wonder whether it is better to live a happy lie than a miserable truth. John became something he always dreamed of on the island, but it was all deception and ended in his death.
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...sorry, because I know you posed this question last night, but I was gone and just got back and I don't believe anyone answered. Your question about having God (or a god) being the thing behind the curtain. It certainly is not lazy, if it does the same thing any good story about anything does. Reveal a new way of looking at a deity, detail a fresh perspective on humanity's relationship with the deity, create a deity that is a compelling, original presence. I mean with this kind of thing the devil is always in the details. The God, too. And most certainly the quality. Ultimately its the same with any element in fiction, but especial attention has to be paid when you're using a palette heavy with fantastical elements. There has to be an original take, they have to comment on the human condition, and most of all there have to be identifiable rules. Can fantastical fiction still be considered quality while dropping the ball on one of the criteria above? Only if it is so strong in another area as to make up for it. But sure, God is a big subject. There's plenty there to explore. If you are going to go there tough, you better do that exploring.
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...is better than what I meant to write.
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http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/
Very clarifying stuff. Lets you know their intentions about certain, and what was really important, and what was less-so. I recommend everyone take 5 minutes and give this a little once-over. -
Imagine a scene later this season where it's 3 years since the 815 flight and Juliet has gone on with her life not having interacted with any of the other 815ers. One day she is making plans to get coffee with someone when suddenly she is overcome with a strange feeling, like she's about to pass out. She gets flashes of being dirty and bloody in a dark place. She sees a man's face. She doesn't recognize him immediately, but then a flood of memories from the time she was recruited by the others overtakes her and she recognizes Sawyer and realizes what has happened. She tries to tell him but loses the connection. Now having the full memory of both lives, she sets off to find Sawyer and the rest of the losties. This confuses her sister and anyone else she's close to, but she's compelled to go find these certain 'strangers'. I know the actress is off doing 'V' but we may just see her back before it's all over.
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The best part of the interview, for me at least, was that Darlton states that they don't view the twp seperate timelines as "alternate" per se, because that implies that one of them is real, and the other is fake somehow. Or that one is the "true" reality the other is the alternate of that reality, which isn't true. They basically state they are both equally real and important. Interesting.
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I missed that when Alpert said he saw them die, I'll have to re-watch the ep. Re: Sun and Jin, it is frustrating, but it's interesting how they're now been seperated in both timelines. In fact, all of their destinies are slightly on par with what their island fates were, ie, Kate still a trying to escape being a fugitive, Locke's spine possibly getting fixed, Charlie almost dying but being saved, Shannon staying in an abusive relationship and possibly dying eventually anyway, Sawyer protecting Kate, etc. The only difference would be Boone, unless he dies a couple of weeks later, and Rose and Bernard, who were not separated at the airport. I know I'm reaching and it probably doesn't matter anyway, unless they're trying to establish that their destinies are basically the same, just accelerated on the island.
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Funny how Jack finally starts to put 'faith' in something (a book, no less) when it's written by a scientist. For 4 1/2 seasons it was John's faith vs. Jack's reason. Now we find out that Jack really just needed an appropriate authority to which he could submit his will. We all pick a religion that suits us.
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I don't think we've seen the last of Juliette. She's not listed as a season regular but that doesn't mean there isn't a clause in her contract that makes her do a couple more eps. It would certainly be cool to see the scene you described, and I think you're onto what's happening to these people.The LAX almost certainly have to be an alternate timeline as opposed to flashforwards because according to Darlton the dead bodies in the cave from season one are going to come into play at the end. That would be impossible if the island is underwater, and it makes me think the LAX scenes are a wrong version of what's going to eventually get set right, ie, the correct LAX timeline.
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Because this show has really gone off the rails. First time travel, now alternate realities and dead bodies being inhabited by other people? Even for Lost, this feels like too much. The creators acclaim might have gone to their heads, because they are no longer practicing any kind of restraint.
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This is the same show that had monsters in the woods and dead fathers appearing to main characters in the first episode of the first season. It's the same show it's always been, but now it's not afraid to let it's freak flag fly.
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the ever reliable little troll, like a stray dog
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Jacob is the obvious answer, but any better ideas ?
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Jacob spoke to John as that was before the ash circle was broken. Did we see it get broken? When it got broken MIB had access to Jacob's cabin.
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From the Kimmel interview, I got the impression that perhaps Sayid might be sharing his mind with another soul. Could be Jacob, Juliette or any other character who has died. Or, perhaps the original timeline Sayid has been replaced by the alternate timeline Sayid in such a way that one minute he was minding his own business in a world where he had never even heard of the island, passed out, and woke up in the temple. "What happened"? I went back and replayed those words over and over. I can't tell is that is his usual accent, a different one, or someone else's voice entirely. It sounds really odd, though, and the expression on his face is one I can't remember him making before.
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Precisely right about the end of S2, was about to say that myself.
Now don't get me wrong. Maybe wasn't the BEST plan in the world looking back now. And remember, everyone DID get pissed at Jack for essentially walking them into a trap. But it was sound...the only problem was they assumed they were headed to the fake Otherton, the empty villiage Sayid headed to. Turns out that was a decoy. So the Others sprang a trap on the Losties, who were springing a trap on the Others, who were springing a trap on the Losties. -
"Just asking because Zach and Emma looked like teenagers to me, but then when you're 57 everyone between 12 and 20 looks the same, just different heights and weights."
I tried that excuse with a judge, he didnt buy it.
Good call on Juliet "flashing" (oooh errr) when she said "we should go for a coffee sometime", never even crossed my mind at the time.
I think its safe to say Sayid isnt completely Sayid now. The ancient others said there'd be consequence, yet walked off matter-of-factly saying he was dead, so i gather it was what they were expecting to happen and left him there to resurrect.
One thing confusing me tho is are there now 3 timelines - the original, the alt LAX and an alt island? What state was the hatch in after it imploded, would it have looked how it did when they flash forwarded just with cranes,etc sticking out of it.
Also, all this talk of is LAX in 2004 or 2007 (personally i think its 2004), but how do we know the islanders have flashed to 2007? Could they have not flashed to 2004 aswell and be there at the same time as the original crash happened? When the whispers happen in the orig timeline then maybe its themselves they're hearing i nthe alt timeline? just thinking out loud
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That's because the two 'timelines' are happening simultaneously. They're trying to inhabit the same space in the fabric of the universe/reality.
But I'm stuck on this Backgammon idea, though. Two sides, one dark, one light. The oldest game. And now we have two clear-cut 'HOMES', where the pieces need to be beared off to and get them off the board.
I was thinking one of these realities had to go. I think now it's that some people have to go from each one. And altering The Numbers, that'll help too. -
and in "a big way" in the next few episodes. It seems like the first half of the season is going to knock all the mythology/mystery stuff out of the way, to set the final episodes up to resolve the timelines and finalize the destinies of our survivors.
Another interesting thing to note was they seemed to make a big deal about noticing thing about the underwater island. They said the shot of the statue, still destroyed, is important as well as the fact that New Otherton was still built before whatever sunk the island did its business. I'm glad to hear all of that is going to be important, rather than just a big fascinating WTF moment for the premiere. They are headed in the right direction to resolve all of this satisfactorily, thats for sure. -
Something inhabiting his body, but what could it be?
Also the Cindy the stewardess mystery.
The kids, 815ers, and the French team too.
What makes them change, keep their memories yet now know what to do?
The answer I think lies in MiB's case.
Because the Smoke Monster and The Others are from the same race.
Not alien, mind you, but from right here on Earth.
And The Island's clear spring is the place of their birth.
There are white and there are black, just like humans or chess.
One side light, one side dark...but then, you know the rest.
And while the Darkies take on forms of the dead without touching the host,
The integration of the Whites is a Rebirth almost.
They inhabit the living, leaving their mind intact
But with some extra knowledge tacked onto their back.
And a hitchikker too; a Light creature resides
In every Other who's been deemed 'Enlightened' to survive.
But the water is brown, and Sayid's body died.
So who can that be that is living inside? -
I know they are happening simultaneously, I just found it really interesting they made a point of saying one isnt going to be considered the "real" timeline and one is the "alternate" timeline. I think a lot of people are probably assuming the Ocean 815 timeline is the alternate one, which will have to be reconciled and probably destroyed so we can return to the "real" timeline on the island. I just love that thy are saying that may not be the case, and like you said, it may be more complicated than just getting rid of one and solidifying the other. They must have a pretty big trick of their sleeve.
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Darlton basically said the theory was sound, but that it wasn't Jacob inside him on Kimmel. Which, to me, leaves Juliet. We know her body is dead, she left the show physically to be on V, but they wanted to keep her "character" around to get back at the pregnancy stuff and keep her insight into the others and stuff around. So thats my theory. As always, could be ten thousand percent wrong.
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There are 2 timelines. When the temple shot the warning rocket, the folks at the statue saw it. The hatch as seen in the premier is the condition it was in after Desmond failed to push the button. I agree the whispers will be some kind of bleed-through from one timeline to the other. This means there may be whispers FROM the island TO the LAX versions. It's gonna be fun.
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Agreed on all accounts. It's very good to hear the slight changes in the LAX timeline are changed for a reason (New Otherton on the sunken Island, people missing off the plane). And I can't wait to see the possible interaction between the two. What was that blood on Jack's neck? Nick himself shaving, or......? And where did Desmond go to? Back to his seat? Or did he jump in his TARDIS and set sail for The Island....?
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He could have changed the title line for this post to "Let's not resort to namecalling." and not only use the best line of the night but accurately encompassed these TBs in one fail swoop.
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Yep. Going back and rewatching the airport terminal scene, neither Sun nor Jin are wearing wedding bands.
Also, count me in with the 'Sun doesn't know English at all' crowd. -
Whoa, you think the Opera House coming "true" was "one giant reveal"? It was a reveal, I GUESS, but giant it wasn't. That one moment summed up everything that went wrong with BSG, to me. This dream sequence, fraught with importance, weighty, repeatedly shown is revealed to be ... some people meaninglessly running around in a spaceship.
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the smoke monster was described as a security system for the island. we assumed that was to keep people off the island but what if smokey was keeping a prisoner ON the island? such as the MIB
if MIB is a prisoner on the island then it looks like sometime after the Black Rock showed up MIB was imprisoned in Jacobs cabin.
Was Jacob merely the prison guard for MIB?
Does Jacob also have the ability to turn into a smoke monster?
Im gonna stay a wild guess and say that Desmond is the new Eloise Hawking. She seemed to be able to time travel at will, does Desmond now have this ability? if so, whats the purpose?
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I was thinking about this the other day. I think I was most annoyed at the beginning of S3 when they were taken captive. Why the FUCK wasn't Jack saying "what the FUCK is going on? who the FUCK are you people?" HOWEVER ...On reflection, I think this was not done to drive the plot or contrive mystery. I think the writers decided those type of questions wouldn't be foremost on the captives' minds. The reason I thin this is they could just as easily had the questions asked and Juliette of Ben simply (and realistically )say "fuck off I'm not telling you". Question asked; mystery preserved. In fact Ben has been a paragon of sidestepping and obfuscation so there was no reason to not have this happen (and the same holds true for other such instances) except that it was deemed unlikely that those questions would really be a priority.
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I don't think the supernatural elements were just random bullshit at all. You can parse most if not all of it. I don't really remember but years ago I was really interested and it seemed fairly clear. The people living above the store, traveling through electricity and whatnot. Haha, like I say I don't remember but it's there.
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Feb 04, 2010 9:21:18 AM CST
So nobody can answer the "Stranger in a Strange LAnd" question?
by _palmer_eldritch
Can we consider it a plothole then? I mean the "Other Others"' reaction just seems wrong considering they hailed Jack like some kind of Messiah in Season 3.
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What the fuck are they doing together then? Is she working for her father too then, and Jin is her partner in crime. WEIRD.
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"...jump in his TARDIS..." Brilliant! I hope we get a talkback for the Doctor's new season when it starts.
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Which episode was the bigger waste of meaningless time? I'm going with Fire + Water personally, but Stranger in a Strange Land was also total bullshit. I love how Darlton blames the fans for that one, hilarious. We INSISTED on knowing what Jacks tattoos meant, they never considered it important, assuaged us by making up an episode for it, and then admitted it was our fault for wanting an answer to something that was never a question.
Par Avion, if I remember correctly, is also a retarded episode. Didn't Claire attach a note to a flock of birds migrating or something? Yea...that certainly never came back around. -
When i said 3 timelines i meant the original 5 season timeline, the alt LAX and the alt island (all the premiere episode after the incident), but if you say the hatch was post-implode then im happy its only 2 timelines.
Still not sure what year they flashed to, alot have questioned the LAX year but assumed the island year to be 2007. -
Can someone explain this to me? or at least remind me of the logic behind detonating a nuclear device to "reset" reality. How did they figure that was gonna work? I don't remember.
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Me too on the Doctor Who! Super excited to see what Stephen Moffat and Matt Smith are bringing to the table.
Man, when you look at it, the Doctor has gotten younger and younger looking with each Regeneration. Wonder if they'll go with a child actor next time. -
I agree with the two timelines, I was not sure until the rockets were seen by those on the beach (even with the post-Desmond hatch).
My question is how does 2004 catch up with 2007? Or all they already in sync and it is just a matter of watching the characters in the alt 2004 timeline go through 3 years of adventures, mysteries and travails (in the course of say 10 epdisodes) until they are ready to cross over (or be crossed over into)? Also I am curious to go back to to Stranger in Strange Land (my favorite Heinlein title btw...) -
Faraday's plan was that, if the bomb went off and destroyed the pocket of Foreign Matter the Swan Station was built around, they would never build the Swan. And the plane would never crash. And we get LAX.
But also still have The Island/815 timeline. Say WHAAAAAAAAT? -
Also interested to hear theories on why some people on the flight have altered realities and others have not.
Locke is in the wheel chair so his dad still threw him out the window, but did Jacob still wake him up? Shannon didnt return cus shes happy in OZ. Hurley won the lottery but is now happy. Sun and Jin arent married.
Yet Jack, Sawyer and Kate are pretty much the same. So what (and how) happened to change their lives before they got on the flight? -
I am going to have to rewatch this. I don't recall The Others hailing Jack as the chosen one...thing.
BUT, if they did, think of it this way. This leadership of The Others, it's apparently open for all comers. They say it could be John. It WAS Ben, before. It could be Jack. If Eko hadn't left the show, I'd say he'd be one as well. So maybe they found their leader/chosen one in Locke (or so they thought, laughed MiB from behind his UnLocke mask), and now Jack's just a has-been. A never-was. Just another one of the Unenlightened.
Also, I'm still not 100% on the Temple Others being exactly the same as Alpert's Others. Something's just...different about them. -
why did he tell her to button her sweater again? They must still be a couple. I have to say this revelation has blown my mind.
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Totally. Didn't mean to nitpick, more than anything I wanted to talk about that scene. Cuz I feel like that could end up being the theme of this season. They're certainly setting us up to have to make a hard decision. Is is better to have a happy Hurley or a heroic Locke? In love Sun & Jin, or in love Jack and Kate, etc?
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Yeah, yeah, I know most people love it. But the storytelling is just sloppy and not up to Lost's usual standard. Two very unnecessary deaths (Michael and Charlie) plus the whole Oceanic 6 stuff was completely unnecessary for the overall storyline.
For the record, I really disliked season 4, but loved Season 5 from episode 5 or so onwards. Favourite eps: Season 2 finale, the one where Eko dies and "The Man From Tallahassee". Also "Walkabout", of course.
...but yeah, Fire+Water was pretty bad. Stranger IASL on the other hand not so much. It's actually rather relevant, I believe. And the point of the episode was NOT to show how Jack got his tattoos.
For -
Thanks, but I had already checked the script of that scene over at Lostpedia when I was writing my analysis of the scene above. ^_^; My points all stand: Sayid assumes for no reason whatsoever that trap wil be set at the Others' camp. That's idiotic, and as we see in the end, the Others captured them _on the way_ to the Camp. And really, that wasn't even particularly devious on their part: the trap being set up on the way from point A to point B rather that at point B was a distinct possibility, a possibility Sayid dismissed right off the bat for no reason. We have the ultimate failre of the plan right there. But even the rest of the plan was idiotic: even if the trap had indeed been set up at the camp (and even if the camp was indeed where Michael said it was... as it turned out, it indeed was, but really...), what made them think that they could overpower the Others? Sayid himself explains he was to go and see how many of them there were, if they had weapons, etc. Basically, they have no idea what to expect. And yet, they're ready to wage war on them anyway? Optimistic to say the least! They say that all they have id the element of surprise, but they decide to use a pillar of black smoke as a rallying signal before their attack on the camp. By the time Jack and co are reunited with Sayid, the element of surprise, she is long gone. There goes that supposed advantage. And really, isn't there a better time to plan a "surprise" (well...) attack on an enemy camp than right when said enemies are supposedly eagerly waiting for you in the first place (what with the trap and all that)? "Oh shit, that pillar of smoke is so scary I can't move! And damn, we were only expecting a few of them, but they're coming at us with _one extra guy_! Shit, we underestimated those crash survivors! What are we going to do, now?!"
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"The best part of the interview, for me at least, was that Darlton states that they don't view the twp seperate timelines as "alternate" per se, because that implies that one of them is real, and the other is fake somehow." Which is an odd point to make: if you're calling _both_ timelines "alternate realities", that really doesn't imply that one is "more real" than the other. Ah, well.
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Both the Losties and The alternate timeline are "real" timelines. It is a form of loop. I (and others) believe Jacob was attempting to steer the loop toward a positive final outcome. Not sure what will happen to it, but I believe the players in Lost have been on some cosmic moebius strip timeline and they may just get off by the end of the season.
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Archetypal storytelling is superior storytelling, and the examples that guy listed, Alien and Star Wars, are far superior to Lost. Those stories are generationally resonant myths, condensed storytelling where no details were sacrificed. Yet they never had to resort to infodump or playing keep-away with important bits of plot in such obvious ways as Lost. Archetypes matter more in storytelling. Read some Joseph Campbell. Start with Hero with a Thousand Faces. Archetypes draw on a universal way of thinking, that the heroes we adopt in our stories are not that different from the ones that came before. The problem with Lost is exactly that. It tries so hard to be different and unfamiliar that it has no distinguishable identity. If anything, Lost owes more to the cheap serials than to any kind of mythology. The creators themselves have said that the mythology they built around the show, in the end, DOES NOT matter. With Star Wars and Alien, the mythology did matter and was integrated into the lives of the characters. Lost will forever be flawed because the mythology was not integrated into the lives of the characters, but simply circumstantial outside forces that really served as nothing more than inconveniences to the Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle and Ben's Freudian daddy issues/inferiority complex.
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Are still a mystery to me. We do not know where they originated from (I am thinking Black Rock) and they are obviously very hostile. If they follow Jacob then maybe Jacob is not such a "good" guy after all.
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I am hoping that is the case. Where we actually learn who the fuck these jerkoffs are. The dudes in the Temple are cocks who all deserve a beating.
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"...it is just a matter of watching the characters in the alt 2004 timeline go through 3 years of adventures, mysteries and travails (in the course of say 10 epdisodes)..." You got it exactly.
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They all have altered realities, it's just a difference of degree. The timeline split in '77, so the sinking of the island has affected history from that point forward. For some, the impact has been small, like Kate. For others, whose lives were more directly linked to the island's existence, like Desmond, the difference is massive. Penny and Daniel may not even have been born.
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Charlie dies at the end of Season 3, hombre.
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I understand your consternation with the plan at the end of S2. They knew they were outnumbered. They (well, Jack at least) suspected The Others were already laying a trap for them. Overall, it wasn't a good plan. But it was the only plan they had apart from letting Michael wander off into the trap himself, and the rest of the Losties sitting around with their collective thumbs up their asses waiting for The Others to come attack them again. Jack didn't want to sit around, WAITING for something to happen. So he made a bonehead move and put them all in imminent danger.
Another angle is that if The Others were planning an attack, their forces would be positined in readiness. So Sayid sneaking in from the back to what they, at the time, assumed to be The Others home base when it is unprotected, is a pretty sound movement. The black smoke pillar? I'm sure in Jack's mind he'd confront Mr. Friendly or whomever was acting as The Other's face, and when their trap was sprung, Jack could point to the horizon and say, "See that smoke? Those are my men. At your home. Now back off, give us Michael and Walt, or we take you out."
Of course, that was not the case. It wasn't their home base. And Jack ended up screwing the pooch with the plan. He's no Patton anywho, and his talent pool for operatives in this escapade was a bit limited (why didn't we see so many other Redshirts from 815? Because they had nothing to contribute, except be canon fodder. Not pretty, but a fact of life).
So was it a bad plan? Laaaawds yes. But Jack didn't want to wait around anymore. He wanted to be pro-active.
It's that same arguement (in a sense) of why Jack didn't go in and help Juliet in LAX--because Sawyer was crazy with grief and didn't have the cognitive capacity to make the 'Smart' choice. Jack made the same kind of mistake with his impetuous plan, because he was sick of sitting around waiting for answers. -
That's what you do with mysteries. You don't reveal certain things. Does that make it a less "resonant" narrative? Possibly, if you're in Ancient Greece. Anyway to compare Lost to Star Wars or Alien is an exercise in futility. Not just as genre but in terms of narrative, format. Seriously, a two hour film vs a 100 hour TV series? That's a stretch.
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I couldn't agree more. I feel like the criticism is invalid given the fact that they are applying plot critiques that apply to movies to a television series which is a completely different animal. It isn't and cannot be written the same way.
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My god you are dumb. Learn the fucking difference between parallel universe and time traveling in the same universe.
You are right that there is no proof that the nuke sunk the island. But you are retarded to suggest that because we see Jack & Co. on the island in 2007, it hasn't sunk yet and will later this season.
FUCKTARD: it didn't sink at all in that universe. It did sink in the universe where Jack & Co. are on 815 which lands and does not crash on the island.
They are two separate universes, two different realities.
Your analogy about blowing up the car in March and not being able to time travel to June and be in your car is almost as retarded as you. You might not be able to see your car in June in the universe where you blew it up, but if you jumped to a universe where you didn't blow it up, you most certainly could see it in June.
I cannot fathom how someone as retarded as you spends days posting on this talkback about how the island will sink in 2007 later this season because obviously it hasn't sunk yet cause they are standing on it.
For the love of all that is good, please fathom that two separate parallel universes each have their own unique timeline. -
do you think Johnny Depp will show up as Jack Sparrow?? we find out the whole time this show has been one big commercial for the next Pirates of the Caribbean movie..
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"it was the only plan they had apart from letting Michael wander off into the trap himself, and the rest of the Losties sitting around with their collective thumbs up their asses waiting for The Others to come attack them again." Like I said earlier, why not confront Michael about his lies? Why not try and get the truth from him? Why not commit the supposed location of that camp to memory in order to later try and check out what it looks like. You know: _later_. On their own terms and schedule. Not when the Others were expecting them. Not how the Others were expecting them (i.e. following Michael's lead). And _just_ to check out the camp at first, without immediately following that up by signaling your presence to the Others with some black smoke and proceeding to attack them. Use some caution, basically. "So Sayid sneaking in from the back to what they, at the time, assumed to be The Others home base when it is unprotected, is a pretty sound movement." But the plan wasn't for Sayid to sneak up on them like that. It's clearly said in that scene that the plan was for him to check out the camp, then go back to the beach, light up a fire, wait for Jack and co to show up, and _then_ attack the camp together. So it wouldn't even be a surprise attack, because of the black smoke. Heck, even Sayid says so himself: because of the black smoke "they'll know we're coming". Yes, indeed, they will, Sayid. And you just said all you had on them was the element of surprise. Don't you think there's a problem with your plan, right there? ^^; "The black smoke pillar? I'm sure in Jack's mind he'd confront Mr. Friendly or whomever was acting as The Other's face, and when their trap was sprung, Jack could point to the horizon and say, "See that smoke? Those are my men. At your home. Now back off, give us Michael and Walt, or we take you out."" Again, Sayid clearly says that the black smoke was intended for Jack so they could meet up at the beach before confronting the Others at the camp. And they also assume the trap will be set at the camp itself, so it doesn't look like they're expecting Jack and co to confront the Others on the way. And of course, in the scenario you describe, Jack would be a lot more convincing if he really had some men over at the camp. But his "army" would consist of Sayid and... well, it's just Sayid, really. ^^; "Of course, that was not the case. It wasn't their home base." Yeah, that camp was a decoy, but that's not what led to the failure of the plan anyway. Jack and the others were captured on their way to the camp. So decoy or not, it didn't change anything for them, really. All it changed is that Sayid was bewildered upon getting there: "Damn, and here I thought out source of information could be trusted!" "Jack made the same kind of mistake with his impetuous plan, because he was sick of sitting around waiting for answers." OK, let's say Jack was blinded with rage and impatience and he wasn't thinking clearly (to put it kindly). What about Sayid? It was his plan, too (in fact, it looks like it was _mostly_ his plan, judging by their conversation)...
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sick of seeing Juliet hit the damn bomb! They must have shown it 20 times Tuesday night, come on!
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and all those who treat it like religion.
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Star Wars, the original trilogy, said everything it needed to say in just three movies. The only reason Lost's story has taken 100 hours to tell is because it has been dragged on and the writers have played the cryptic card until it is worn to shreds. Again, Star Wars is superior because it recognizes the hero archetype as necessary.
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you're absolutely right, amigo, I got confused.
It's the entire Oceanic6 plotline that I really don't like. And I think by the end of Season 6 we will see that, in retrospect, it was completely unnecessary and didn't really advance the plot at all. They didn't need to get off the island just to come back again. The whole alternate reality will pretty much teach us the same lesson, I guess. -
I'm thinking maybe Sayid is [has some of] the mind/soul/energy from another/alt time. It always seems that people on the brink of death (Charlotte as the time shifts killed her, she started having more overlaps, Juliette being injured and fading started experiencing the "other" time).
Maybe the consequence is knowing about the other place (and that other you knows as well). We'll see if the 2004X Sayid starts getting the feeling of something out of place. -
you're absolutely right, amigo, I got confused.
It's the entire Oceanic6 plotline that I really don't like. And I think by the end of Season 6 we will see that, in retrospect, it was completely unnecessary and didn't really advance the plot at all. They didn't need to get off the island just to come back again. The whole alternate reality will pretty much teach us the same lesson, I guess: stay on the Island, it's your best shot. -
Did Locke become confined to a wheelchair via Anthony Cooper in this reality? Did Sawyer kill the man in Australia in this reality? One thing is for sure, Frogurt is still a prick.
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Hahaha, I was kind of hoping a flaming arrow would come out of nowhere and hit him in the chest for a dick about the taxi.
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"My god you are dumb. Learn the fucking difference between parallel universe and time traveling in the same universe." Hahaha, that's the model internet message board quote.
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Yeah loved how he was wearing the red shirt as well. Think the people who died on the island are going to die in this reality? I only ask that because of Charlie's comment to Jack "I was supposed to die".
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Are you STILL fucking whining about that plan? If you're so much smarter than the characters (and the writers) WHY are you still watching four years later?The writers WANTED Jack, Kate and Sawyer to be captured. They wanted Michael and Walt to leave the island. They wanted to do an "Others" season. If Jack and Sayid had come up with the most brilliant scheme in the history of screenwriting, it still wouldn't have worked. It wasn't supposed to be a successful plan. Who's their team? A mole they know they can't trust, a fugitive and tracker who's constantly being surprised or recaptured, a half hearted con man who isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and the unluckiest lottery winner on Earth. Are these the people you would use on YOUR black ops mission?Oliver, you need to take Eloise Hawking's advice to Jack in Season 5. "Stop arguing about how preposterous it is and ask yourself if you believe it's going to work!" Just because the characters are constantly improvising, screwing up and making bad decisions doesn't mean the WRITERS are too.Nobody knows how this is going to end but them and they have four months left to show us. I have faith it will have been worth watching. Cheer up. Either way, it's almost over.
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That would make a good ending; Locke marrying Helen after Jack fixes his legs.
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That IS a funny quote,especially given that some of the Abrams' STAR TREK haters still haven't figured out the difference umpteen talkbacks later.
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I'm surprised to read that so many are still confused about the number of timelines and which year everyone is in. Others have explained it several times as well, but just in case you missed it...An alternate 2004 timeline is being shown based on the successful explosion in 1977. The island is under the surface of the ocean in this timeline - is it from the nuke? Not necessarily, but it could be.After the explosion the 1977 group was sent back to their original 2007 island timeline. Proven when the Temple Others sent the flare and the people we knew were in 2007, near Jacob's foot house on the beach, saw it too.
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Hilariously absurd. Ridiculous times we live in people. Nerds are the best. "LEARN the difference..." hahahaha, where do you go to be taught such things?
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Feb 04, 2010 12:51:06 PM CST
"Star Wars is superior because it recognizes the hero archetype
by thunderbolt ross
Translation: "Time to stop any meaningful dialogue with me right now"
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A few seem to wonder what happened to the other original 815 survivors...Attacks by the others that resulted in death - instead of just kidnapping.Attacks by the people from the freighter.All the 815'ers who were on the freighter when it blew up! I think lots of people forgot about this - I'm pretty sure Faraday had taken a few trips before the freighter blew up (at least two).Then during the time shifts... flaming arrows... Widmore and Ellie's military group... etc.
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I heard somewhere (probably here) that Peg Bundy was due back this season.
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People seem confused as to why this MacFaux character is how he is. Well he's already revealed the secret: He's drunk.
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My nerd quote about "learning the difference between parallel universes and time traveling in the same universe" can be attributed to the rage I feel reading posts by someone with Down's Syndrome trying to explain the season six premiere.
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It kind of depends where in the US you intend on going to. Right?
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Up until now, I pretty much assumed that all of the talk over the past few years with regards to how king's Dark Tower series had influenced the show was in reference to how the series will end. Now I am fairly convinced that the island is the Dark Tower. We are now getting to see the characters living on the different levels of the tower. This means that much of the strangeness is the result of "thinnies" and that by the series end, both "realities" could still be intact.
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I think the story that’s unfolding is showing the audience exactly what happens after the end game. Whatever game Jacob and MIB are playing will cumulate with the island sinking (at some point in time) or quite possibly removing the island from history’s timeline entirely. The bomb seems like a likely candidate for causing the island to sink, but that would mean everyone on the island at the time of the detonation would have perished (and we know Ms. Hawking was still on the island) which is why I think the end game ties into how the island sinks.
The island exist outside of time, in its own pocket, which leads me to believe the timeline on the island has to play itself out (2007) but the after effects of the coming war could reverberate throughout time and space.
I believe the ‘alt/future’ timeline will culminate with Jack fixing Locke (the Real John).
As for the game, think of it as a massive chess board. When players are killed, they are placed in an ‘out of bounds’, they can still be heard via the whispers but cannot interfere with the board or pieces on the board.
What the resolution is, how it’s reached, and what it all means in the greater sense of the show mythos is beyond me right now.
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1. Has the ash around the cabin been broken the whole time and we didn't just realize until the season 5 finale? Because I don't understand if the MIB was a prisoner inside the cabin how he could parade around the island this entire time in smoke form?
2. With the island under water in the other universe as of 1977, would sir Ben Linus be dead? Since he was a kid on the island still in 77, which seems to have been the end of the island's existence in this timeline. -
Ideally, move to central California. Cost effectively, move to north Texas. If you want a real adventure, move to Detroit.
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Now it's time for someone to help me understand how MiB = Smoke Monster. Yes, I saw the episode and it did seem like a big reveal ("You're the monster?"), but it still doesn't make sense to me...If MiB = Smoke Monster then:- Why did he allow himself to be 'summoned' by Ben and the others and do their bidding?- Has he always been able to roam the island freely? For example S1.1 moving through the trees near the shore.-Why didn't anyone else (including Richard) seem to know the smoke monster could take on a human form? Richard seemed to know MiB existed, but not that MiB = Smoke Monster... really? It just seems odd for someone who actually talked to Jacob AND has been around for a very long time.If the dust circle can contain/repel MiB/Monster (and maybe even Jacob):-How do the island apparitions appear when the cabin was surrounded? This assumes that MiB was in the cabin as hinted by 'Jacob's Bodyguards' looking for MiB there AND that something was in the cabin that spoke to Locke and we know it wasn't Jacob - Ben didn't know where Jacob was.-If MiB was trapped in the cabin how did the Smoke Monster get out?-How does the Christian apparition leave the island?
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1. The ash has not been broken the whole time. Ben really was following Jacob's orders for years until MiB got INTO the cabin and started impersonating Jacob to deceive John further and to sow the seeds of Ben's hatred. 2. It is possible/likely that anyone who was on the island when it sank is dead in the new timeline.
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I think Jacob was in the cabin not MiB. So that should pretty much answer ea lot of your questions.
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I think Jacob is also a smoke monster
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Thanks!If you're right it would explain the last set. But I'm fairly certain that Ben took Locke to the cabin to mess with him...and then later kill him. Ben had never heard or seen Jacob until just before Ben stabbed him.Honestly, I think the circle around the cabin was broken a long time before, and then MiB would return as he wanted. This would explain how the cabin 'moved' or changed locations in a few of the episodes.
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Two or more actual smoke monsters would certainly make things less confusing. And really, not to be racist, but one smoke monster looks just like any other.
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Interesting idea... But, if Jacob is also a Smoke Monster some of the same questions remain:Why would any smoke monster (being more powerful and intelligent than humans) sit in a cave and wait to be summoned to help the others or guard the island?In the end if the writers say MiB = Smoke Monster than he is, but it just isn't a perfect fit. I'd get it more if MiB was allied with or had MORE control over the Smoke Monster (than the others).
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LOL.Of course the smoke monster looked different to Locke. Looking back on the series as a whole... it's probably the beginning of the MiB's manipulation of Locke.
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...I'm glad you've read Hero With a Thousand Faces. Now read some more.
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Is a mystery though. Ben did summon Smokey to stop the freighter guys. If the Others are so scared of Smokey/Flocke then why or how did they summon him?
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i still think this could have been Jacob. I believe John Locke will be the one rid the island of the smoke monster once and for all.
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One thing I find interesting about the scene where [fake/evil] Locke disappears and we get Smokey: he doesn't just shift or change right there, the Locke body is just gone and the smoke monster comes out from a passage.
It may have just been a way to make the "Sorry you had to see me like that..." more dramatic, but it was almost like the smoke form is "stored" somewhere.
?
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If you follow orschigh's advice for cost effectiveness and move to the Texas panhandle, you'll probably kill yourself within six months. Even looking over optimal choices, you can't really have it all. It probably would depend on what type of person you are. If you want a change of pace by all means go west coast, but I'd recommend an east coast town. You shouldn't mind the weather and it's closer and possibly a little closer in attitude, depending where you live in GB.
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Locke isn't possessed. His body is lying right there on the beach (and the FLocke form even disappeared in the temple). The MIB has duplicated Locke's physically.
Not to say Jacob might have a different approach, but so far it has at least seemed like duplicates, not the original body(ies). -
have you seen the crappy CGI on Lost do you think they could afford to do a Locke/Smokey transformation for this episode after the underwater CGI? LOL!
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I know it might not be cool, but over at Chud they have a columnist that does the a recap and goes into detail.. that dude is on point about alot of stuff, go check it out!
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Hahaha, well yeah, maybe it was a budget thing.
"OK, we've got $20 left for Terry to transform into the Smoke Monster ... No can do? OK, just run behind that column and we'll edit you out..." -
the only answer we want is 'what is between Kates legs?'
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So Locke is not possessed, because we see the body. What about Christian? We have yet to see a body. Is he Smokey as well? They just seem to make such a big deal about Christian and an empty coffin for it to be as simple as that.
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As for why it was doing Ben's bidding, there's a few ways you can explain that away. Maybe it didn't have full freedom until Jacob was killed? Maybe it's like a fucking genie, and draining that hole is like rubbing a magic lamp... smokey simply gets summoned (notice it didn't completely kill all the mercenaries, just roughed them up a bit). Also, Richard might know what the monster is, but he might not know that Ben knows how to summon the damn thing from his barracks.
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in the preview for "What Kate Does" on YouTube, Claire gets out of the cab and she is preggers.
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Jacob has been killed in the Locke dead timeline....
Now although the Island is underwater Jacob could well be alive in the other timeline
could this come into play in some way -
Damn right it's a great feature, I think a lot of people from here should check it out.
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Jin's son!
Why?
Because he didn't like speaking english, but he could!. Just like Jin!
:) -
maybe there's 2 smoke monsters.. the other is Billy Lumis.. Sid fingered the wrong guy... again!
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you think all Asians are related?? maybe Miles and Sun are cousins.. Dr. Candlewax is Jin's father's college roommate.
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Is it possible that MIB only took over the smoke monster recently, and prior to that is was controlled by something else (jacob or ?). If we assume that is was MIB who was somehow trapped in the cabin, and assume that it was he that Locke saw/heard, perhaps he was asking for help getting out. Then someone (claire?) comes into the the cabin and disturbs the ash and allows MIB to get out. At this point MIB escapes and takes over the smoke monster and begins using it to manipulate the players. The timeline may not work as I have not rewatched season 3 & 4 for quite awhile.
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It sure did seem like Ben summoned Smokey back then. Maybe Smokey had been trapped and he let him out as a last ditch? Maybe there was some "rule" that he knew would protect him in the moment. There are all those "rules," after all. I love the idea that they couldn't afford to show Locke morph into smoke. So many times shit like that happens in shows and being that it's the last season, I bet the budget is tight. Of course, this allows for the possibility that UnLocke is not Smokey, but wants Ben to think that he is. That's the kind of shit Ben would pull (and has). Many of the big moves in the show (regardless of who makes them) seem to be dependant on misdirection or misinformation. As a viewer, I expect it. But the characters have to suffer right along with me, lol.
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Why were the peeps who set off the nuke transported to a 2007 in which the Swan was apparently never built? The continuity of the established island timeline is changed is it not? Paradox?
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up at post point 8.53.30. - Well done, bravo.There was a interview article with Terry O'Quinn in the television program listings magazine a few weeks ago. I was tempted to mention it at the old season finale Lost talkback but they get so sensitive about spoilers over there and he did confirm that, yes, John Locke died when Ben strangled him and he was always someone else on the island as "Non Locke". Well, he also mentioned that, yes, Katey Sagal will be making another guest appearance on the show. Obviously on the LA X timeline. I love her and think that's great news.Although I still think the airline could be lying about confiscating Locke's knives and never having put Christian on the plane in the first place, the sunken island pretty much proves that the 2004 LA X timeline is a very different alternate universe.I think the island timeline is a continuation of the original Lost 5 seasons timeline, not an alternate. And I think it is mid-to-late 2007 around three and a half years after the 615 crash, based on Cindy and "the children" looking around three or four years older and being adapted to Others culture.
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I know you're not supposed to encourage them, but...Ollie, if you just keep making the same exact point about the idiot plot at the end of S2 over and over again, alwys in 3-4 inch high blocks of text, then eventually even if you say something clever or make a valid new point, no one will know because except for the one of two talkbackers you seem to be arguing with, everyone else will just be scrolling over your stuff like you're a more annoying version of that Scottish poet McFakes or Mike Fox or whatever. Just move on to another topic or, you know, go surf the interwebs or watch some TV or something. Just a fiendly suggestion,
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The writers had a reason to put that line in where he says he don't like english on his tongue.
Jin didn't like to speak english either, I think they threw us a bone. -
Will the S6 DVD set have a final recap clip show?Every year they do a couple of clip shows to recap the story so far and the story of the previous season, and they all cut to the bones of the plot and explain exactly what mattered and why. It makes a very complex show much easier to understand. I wonder if anyone will cut together a series ending clip show to explain the entire "story" from beginning to end? That would be cool. Kinda.
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I was kidding with you.. I think it's a cool theory.. ha ha!
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Originally TV shows existed to fill the spaces between ads and deliver eyes to sponsors. Then they developed as an art form and became a commodity that could be sold via home video and then DVDs. A commercial product with some creativity and artistic integrity.I think when it's done, if you take just the bare bones plot, with every turn, twist and bizarre unexpected development in it and examine it, it may seem kind of silly or ludicrous.It IS about the journey and not the destination. What's great about LOST is how it keeps springing new mysteries, taking unexpected turns, and delivering brilliant OMG and WTF moments and a cliff hanger episode on nearly every episode. In a way, as a series it's the 21st century version of the 1930's movie serials.And I mean every word of that in a good way. It delivers constant entertaining surprises and "I can't believe I just saw that" moments, and it delivers ratings to the network and eyes to the sponsors and profits to the creators. It delivers thrills and chills and cool characters and quotable lines and it delivers the most talked about show in TV history. And it seems to be delivering revitalized careers or springboards for further career advancement to a lot of it's stars (like the ones who went on to be on V, FlashForward... (even The Unusuals, which failed, but I liked.)Face it, it's not JUST about delivering one weird story that takes six years to tell, it's about slicing it up into one and two hour chunks and packing each segment with entertainment value. And LOST delivers.
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Ah, I grew up in Detroit and I thought it was funny. We have a pretty tough skin for those jokes.
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Some very valid points. I take back my examination of why the plan might have actually been a good idea (and to be perfectly honest I'll admit to not having seen the end of S2 in quite a while, so my memory of events was a bit fuzzy). But that was the besides-the-point of my post.
What I'm mainly saying is, it was a bad plan. I guess I don't understand why you had a problem with the fact...it was a bad plan. Is every decision made by a character on TV or a person in real life the 'right' decision? Or do people sometimes screw up and make bad choices and get themselves into bad situations? But of course!
So after your earlier refuting, I completely agree with you now that it was a bonehead plan, not thought out, and a mistake. But I think the point of your gripe with the end of S2 is that the writers didn't choose to have Jack or Sayid or anyone come up with a better plan. Or that it wasn't believable for the characters to make these erroneous leaps in logic that leads to essentially walking into a trap. I happen to disagree, and especially having now gone back to re-examine the plot, as well as the sections you pointed out to me, that these characters made choices I thought were logical for their characters, based on the fact they were stranded, in this strange place, tired and hungry, being bombarded with mystery after death after mystery after death, on this strange Island in the middle of nowhere (or maybe just a big snow globe), not being rescued...I mean, there are countless reasons they wouldn't be thinking at their most logical, or see the holes you've pointed out in their plan.
Looking back now, I see the validity of your arguement that the plan was flawed. I don't see the validity of your arguement that it was an unbelievable character choice for the writers to make, that these people fucked up. So, to each their own. -
they were transported to 2007 where they had to remove hatch debris to get to juliet... wtf are you talking about bro?
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Thanks! :)
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The Swan Station had been built; they found the debris from when the Hatch exploded and the hole it blew into The Island.
But you bring up another point I'm interested in...how do we know the Island timeline IS in 2007? We know for sure Jack's Dharma Time Travelling Crew and Those in the Shadow of the Statue are in the same time period (see 'Fireworks'). But are we sure that's '07? Lemme throw something at you guys...
It was nighttime before Ajira 316 experienced the white flash. It was instantly daytime after it. Jack and Co. moved through time, backwards. Could Frank, Ben and the rest moved through time...forwards? How horribly overgrown and abandoned is New Otherton/Dharmaville when Frank and Sun go to visit it?
Who's to say the Island timeline isn't in 2010? 2012? Even further? -
The producers weren't lying! Sayid has come back to life now that Jacob is dead... does this mean others will start crawling out of their graves? Eko, Boone, Nikki and Paulo? Next week, Ilana and Frank do walk up to the Lostaways cemetery... hmmmmm....
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*If you go back to when Miles was laying over Juliet's grave, reading the departed, the sound FX is one of a creaking ship.
*If you listen to the now familiar 'whoosh' as scenes go from World to Island or Island to World ..something is off. Don't know if the sound is reversed, but it sounds ...different.
Listen. -
We thought the deafness effect was what it sounds like...
when you're underwater (see Island 2004X!) -
it's easy enough from your armchair to say "that's just plain stupid - they should have been smarter than that" - intelligent people can do the dumbest things too, yaknow?
Darkocity, if you're planning on moving to USA for the broadband, there's something you should know- average broadband speed in MBPS and price per month of 1MPBS:
USA: 4.8MBPS / $3.33
CANADA: 7.5MBPS / $6.50
FRANCE: 17.6MBPS / $1.64
KOREA: 46MBPS / $0.45
JAPAN: 61MBPS / $0.27
also UK recently announced plans for 100MBPS by 2017 - but you probably alsready knew that... -
"If you're so much smarter than the characters (and the writers)" Nothing to brag about, really... "WHY are you still watching four years later?" I already answered that one in detail... "
The writers WANTED Jack, Kate and Sawyer to be captured. They wanted Michael and Walt to leave the island. They wanted to do an "Others" season. If Jack and Sayid had come up with the most brilliant scheme in the history of screenwriting, it still wouldn't have worked." Yeah. And that's called "bad writing". Things happen simply because they need to happen in order to advance the plot: whether or not they make a lick of sense is irrelevant. Bad writing. And you get a bunch of it in Lost. "you need to take Eloise Hawking's advice to Jack in Season 5. "Stop arguing about how preposterous it is and ask yourself if you believe it's going to work!"" Yeah, that was pretty much a direct message from the writers to the audience, isn't it? "Please don't think too hard about it and just enjoy the ride!" Heh. -
*Wonder. If on this side. in this iteration. Sun really can't speak English. Nice to put that question back on the table.
*Noticed that when the Oceanic flight touched down in LA there was a nice underbelly shot of the aircraft ..so famously seen in the opening credits of Hawaii 5-0. homage-y hat-tip?
*Who hasn't Jack kissed on this island? Rose, Charlie, Kate, Juliet, Desmond, Sayid.... Who am I leaving out?
*Interesting that Kate said to James, "The chains are comin"
*Miles about James, "He took 4 of them out before one of them hit him with a damn rock" ..now who have we seen on the island with an ability to chuck rocks? Alexandra. Too much too hope for? Are you sure that was smokie Un-Alex under the Temple?
*Seemed a point was being made when John said "My condition is irreversible" ..and Jack replied, "Nothing is irreversible" -
"you think all Asians are related?? " Not to mention the guy over at the temple was speaking Japanese, not Korean. (and whatever you do, never tell a Korean (or Japanese) guy he's related to a Japanese (or Korean) guy... you'd never hear the end of it!)
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Use Em' trolls. Otherwise, we wont read your shit
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I thought it was the debris from the CONSTRUCTION site of the Swan. That's how Juliet was in there. Was it supposed to be the original implosion from Season 2?
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"everyone else will just be scrolling over your stuff like you're a more annoying version of that Scottish poet McFakes or Mike Fox or whatever." What?? You mean there are people around here who might just not bother to actually read my messages?? And some of them would even go for my throat anyway?! NO WAI!! ^___^;
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so Darlton confirm "the show has replaced the trademark 'whoosh!' sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world" and also point out the underwater features of the ALT-island suggest the nuke didn't sink it - maybe the volcano did?
Olivier - you can create paragraphs with - except without the spaces...
seems you're basically saying "I can think of a thousand better choices these characters could have made, right here from the comfort of my armchair" - I guess you never made "a bonehead move" or rash decision, in the heat of the moment, huh? Good for you! Me, I can think of one, right off the top of my head from about maybe 20 years ago, now...
my friends and I were dining at McDonalds late one night and as we were leaving, my friend decided to open the (glass) door with his foot - which promptly went straight through the glass and shattered the door into a million pieces on the ground before us. We all stared at it for a moment before someone shouted "RUN!" and we did - straight into the arms of an off-duty cop who also happened to be dining at McD's that night!
true story
in retrospect, we all wish maybe just ONE of us had taken a step back and said "no, let's just wait for the manager and explain what happened" - who knows? Maybe we could have even convinced them it was THEIR fault and how dare they endanger us with dodgy glass doors that can break so easily all over us - but we ran, like proper muppets
regardless of how smart or dumb we might happen to be, NOBODY is above making the wrong choices every now and then - remember, THAT'S HOW WE LEARN -
"Wonder if they'll go with a child actor next time." And he'll probably be ginger!
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"It IS about the journey and not the destination." Agent22 (I believe that was his/her handle?) adressed that new motto the writers are now throwing around in a couple of messages above, you should check it out. Like he explained, it's very disingenous (his word, I probably wouldn't be so polite) of the writers to claim such a thing in recent interviews considering how they had been selling the show up until now.
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TPTB made a point of showing James pull Desmond's exercise bike off the debris Juliet was under.
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"Is every decision made by a character on TV or a person in real life the 'right' decision?" Sure, but Jack and Sayid were portrayed as reasonably intelligent people (Jack was the leader and Sayid the "tactician"), and the idea two reasonably intelligent people could come up with such a terribly, terribly flawed plan and go with it (and of course, let's not forget _their lives are at stake_) is downright absurd (or really, _really_ far-fetched, if I have to sugarcoat it a bit). So the whole thing falls right in the definition of the "idiot plot" according to Ebert.
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If you put yourself in their shoes, you have to remember that they Losties didn’t know anything about the Others. Their plan was just to have Sayid check them out first and then regroup. That’s not the dumbest plan in the world. All they knew was that Michael had been compromised. They didn’t know there would be a trap before the village or that he would lead them elsewhere. I don’t think you or I would have even thought of that. But hindsight is 50/50. To give you some credit, yeah it wasn’t the smartest plan in the world but it wasn’t as dumb as you make it out to be. And Sayid didn’t create the smoke to ‘let them know we are coming’ – that was just a throwaway ‘cool’ line. He made it so they could meet him and regroup and learn what Sayid had learned.
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so sayid is jacobs loophole?
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Does anyone have any ideas as to why Jack had a spot of blood on his neck at the beginning? My first thought was that he was involved with something before the plane ride that will be revealed later. But I just thought that maybe it has something to do with the surgery he was doing just before Jacob touched him. I don't know how that fits, but I find that and the missing coffin to be the most interesting parts of the premiere.
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"you can create paragraphs with - except without the spaces... "
Oh, dear... Thank you so much! I didn't dare to ask! ^^;;;
"seems you're basically saying "I can think of a thousand better choices these characters could have made, right here from the comfort of my armchair""
Basically, yeah. And my life isn't even at stake. (the same could be said for the follow-up questions that never get formulated: a viewer who cares about the secrets of the magical island once a week thinks of them, but those characters _who live there_ and whose lives are endangered by all those mysteries... well, _they_ don't... huh) -
"If you put yourself in their shoes, you have to remember that they Losties didn’t know anything about the Others. Their plan was just to have Sayid check them out first and then regroup. That’s not the dumbest plan in the world." Considering they admit themselves that all they have is "the element of surprise", the idea of using black smoke as a signal to regroup before the attack is quite dumb. Especially when the scene shows that Sayid is _very much aware_ that the black smoke meant the Others would know they were coming...
How about this alternative for size: let's all jump in the boat with Sayid. That means no need for a smoke signal to regroup, so we can just go and scout the camp, and _keep_ whatever element of surprise we may have for our attack. Heck, that even gives us some leeway to pause for a minute and rethink the plan if it looks like we're outnumbered and attacking the camp wouldn't be wise at the moment. What was the point of forming another party that would be quietly following Michael's lead, after all? What was there to gain?
"They didn’t know there would be a trap before the village or that he would lead them elsewhere. I don’t think you or I would have even thought of that."
I'm 100% confident I would have, sorry. ^_^; Those were obvious possibilities. If you don't think they were, well... we'll just have to agree to disagree, I guess. ^^;
"Sayid didn’t create the smoke to ‘let them know we are coming’ – that was just a throwaway ‘cool’ line."
No, inded, it was meant as a signal for Jack. But that throwaway "cool" line was still very much true: if Jack can see the black smoke, so can the Others. So Sayid making a big deal of trying to keep the element of surprise as that's "all they have" and _in the same breath_ acknowledging that the Others would know they were coming because of the smoke... The mind boggles. Don't you hear yourself speaking, Sayid? -
that "Out of focus bikini girl in the background" from season one is definitely dead then?I was not aware that Team Lost had adopted "It's about the journey, not the destination, stupid" as their official season six push to the end slogan. I used the phrase as a simple statement of fact.I am very selfish. Let's say the worst comes to pass and Lost concludes and leaves some loose plot threads and doesn't answer every "essential for a satisfactory conclusion" question. Well, if that spoils the series for the devout fans, too bad... for them. If Darlton pull a ronmore and mess the end up so bad no one ever hires them to write TV again, too bad... for them. If very intelligent TV critics have valid reasons why I should not like Lost, even tough I do, too bad... for them. And if I get a great deal of entertainment value from a TV series for six years and in the last few episodes it lets me down and doesn't answer every little "What about Steve and Tracy" question I might have, well, frankly I don't think I will be moved enough to build a time machine and go back and NOT enjoy myself for those six years. I think I will look back on Lost as an entertaining TV series with some fascinating characters and delightfully unexpected plot twists and not let the fact that these are morally ambiguous characters who have made some questionable decisions bother me all that much. Y'know?Note to self: never write a TV series in which a major plot element hinges on a child character remaining the same age for the entire run of the series... unless it's animated.
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If Lost was a combination of live action and animated characters (like Roger Rabbit, Cool World or Evil Toons) They could have got that kid that plays Riley on Boondocks to be Walt. Problem solved.
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how fast a child star will grow up. Like on that series Medium, the older of the three daughters is supposed to be a teenagers of driving age so che can take the other kids to school, and yet she still has that baby-face thing going on and still looks like a 13 year old even though she's actually 17 now. At this rate she won't get to be the next Katherine Heigl until she's nearly 30.
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Lost is so awesome it drove FlashForward and Fringe into hiding for several months.The Lost talkback is so addictive it's curing my facebook addiction.
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What about Jacob dying gave MIB control over the smoke, or freedome as the smoke, and the Others freaked out when the found out Jacob died, so yeah, yeahhh...
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I’ll give you that much. I think I remember seeing a few other parts of the show that I thought were more questionable than that scene. I can’t remember them now though.
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"the idea two reasonably intelligent people could come up with such a terribly, terribly flawed plan and go with it (and of course, let's not forget _their lives are at stake_) is downright absurd"
Again, it's not about the intelligence of the character, it's about the situation. "_their lives are at stake_" you say, and again to DapperSwindler, and that's the point I'M trying to make--their lives were in danger. They were in a situation that would cloud their judgement or cause them to make rash or incorrect decisions. The fact that the characters ARE intelligent isn't being called into question. The situation the intelligent characters find themselves in is the variable in question.
I'm not disagreeing it was a bad plan or that Sayid admitted that to enact said plan they had would negate the one advantaget they had (surprise). What I'm in disagreement about is the idea that even intelligent characters, in a life and death situation (especially in a life and death situation), wouldn't, couldn't, POSSIBLY make a boner move or not see something coming. -
Why do you (and others)keep insisting that the characters never ask logical follow up questions when the Show shows exactly the opposite?Locke for example was constantly asking Ben and Richard Alpert questions they would only answer cryptically if at all.This pays off comedically in the Season 4 finale when Locke asks "Is that the Magic Box?" "No John."Jack was always pumping the Freighter people for information they refused to provide him with. He didn't just go along with whatever they said. In the Season 5 premiere Sawyer responds to Daniel Faraday's weaselly reticence by simply punching him in the face and refusing to go anywhere with him until he explains WHERE and WHY.These characters argue about each other's decision making at least once an episode. I seem to remember Sawyer objecting to that same Season 2 plan you keep bitching about.
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I'm not dismissing the whole state, just the panhandle. It's a big place ... Though a lot of it is godawful, there are good spots - ask Harry Knowles).
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D'oh!
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hes still prolly wondering WHY his ass still hurts ( in THIS reality ). ASSIHAGUE-- ummm... i PAID for the lovin.... uhh... made sure "she" was'nt a "he"....ummm...and had what online IDIOTS (like ASSIHAGUE ) call "sex"... WHY does my ASS HURT??? talbacker response-- cause u like tranny sex maybe? ASSIHAGUE'S response-- I certainly DO NOT! It's only happened 5 times in my LIFE!! TB's comeback-- Umm yes U ACTUALLY DO....u IDIOT...if NOT y do u KEEP COMING BACK FOR IT?? ASSIHAGUES response-- ...........uhhhh...LOST sux......
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not in a ACTUAL SENSE guys... but, u know what i mean.....
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If he thinks that Season 2 finale falls under the category.
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As are the rest of the dead LOSTies once Lapidus and the others reach the cemetery. Nikki and Paulo, back from the dead. "Nothing on this Island stays buried for long," Locke told them back in Season 3...
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But its not a paradox to have the LOSTies from 77 end up in the normal timeline of 2007 on the Island. Blowing up the bomb was probably the "incident" all along. The explosion sent them forward in time and released enough of the electromagnetic buildup to allow for the pushing of the button. Afterall, something had to stop that all powerful pull, didn't it?
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Please explain, then?
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MiB speaks as though Locke’s thoughts, feelings, and memories are now his. So is it safe to say MiB has assimilated John Locke? And if you agree to that, what if there is no MiB entity at all. What if he is just an amalgamation of all the dead people on the island assimilated into one being? A being that includes John Locke, Christian Shepherd, Yemi, Ana Lucia, Boone, etc.
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typical IDIOT. u cant explain RANDOM DUMBASSERRY buddy... just LEAVE THE TROLL ALONE....
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actual INTELLIGENT FANS and making NO SENSE= RANDOM DUMBASSERRY.
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"Why do you (and others)keep insisting that the characters never ask logical follow up questions when the Show shows exactly the opposite?"
Yeah, they sure kept harassing Rousseau about her (somehow?) knowing that the smoke monster was a security system, for example... ^^;
Or, you know, when she told them to keep a close eye on each other, because of what happened to her crew, her friends who "changed". What was she talking about? Well, we caught a glimpse of it courtesy of Jin's trip into the past (even if that didn't exactly _explain_ anything... it merely _showed_), _eventually_. Nobody asked her for details on that affair before that. Or about what "it" was that "killed them all". I dunno, I think _I_'d wonder about all that. 'Sounds pretty important, even potentially life-threatening stuff.
And before you tell me that Rousseau acted like one crazy lady so they probably didn't expect her to answer their questions... why not at least _give it a try_? Y'know, "just for kicks"? It might _just_ be worth it, after all. Ah, well...
Anyway, I'm not saying the characters never ask any questions at all: that would be downright silly. But there are _many_ instances where they mysteriously don't even though their lives might be at stake. -
cant live without'em....TROLL- why is water water?? why is air air?? hmmm??? SANE TALKBACKER- ummm...because its a natural reaction? TROLL- NO IT IS NOT!!... SANE TALKBACKER- No it actually IS... TROLL- NOPE u know why???... CAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME!!! ...SO THERE!!!
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"it's not about the intelligence of the character, it's about the situation. "_their lives are at stake_" you say, and again to DapperSwindler, and that's the point I'M trying to make--their lives were in danger."
But _they_ were the ones who decided to take risks instead of simply staying on the beach. They realized that Michael was up to something, and they had the option to simply confront Michael instead of following him and trying to wage war on the Others on that very day. It's not like they were pressed by time or anything (unless they knew they were in a season finale! ^^). _They_ decided to go and confront the Others (despite the fact they know very little about what might await them). _They_ decided to take risks, right then and there. It's not some danger that caught them off guard and "quick! let's think of something before it's too late!": it's some shit _they_ decided to go and stir. So I don't buy the "their plan was shitty because they were under pressure" theory, sorry. ^_^;
When I said that their lives were at stakke, I meant they were from the moment they had decided to go and confront the Others. That's not something you should be doing lightly. You don't really know what you're dealing with, you don't exactly have an army with you (hi, Ana-Lucia!)... It's pretty risky. You'd think they'd their best to try and be cautious. And Sayid makes it sound like they are: "I'll go scout the camp", "let's keep the element of surprise"... But the plan he comes up with _immediately_ ruins all that. -
Feb 04, 2010 10:04:58 PM CST
'But suppose some evil thing befalls you?' asked his sister.
by macfaux
'How shall we know?'
'You are right,' he replied; ' I had not thought of that!'
Then they followed the old man, and said to him, 'My eldest brother wishes to seek for the water of life, and the tree of beauty, and the talking bird, that you tell him are needful to make our palace perfect. But how shall we know if any evil thing befall him?'
So the old man took them a knife, and gave it to them, saying, 'Keep this carefully, and as long as the blade is bright all is well; but if the blade is bloody, then know that evil has befallen him.'
...Hurleybird. -
keeps posting. like it matters. DONT FUCK WITH THE TROLL GUYS....
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What surprise does the smoke ruin? The Others already know they're coming.And the Losties know they know they’re coming. The ‘surprise’ element is not an ambush, but the fact that they were going to get intel from Sayid and then use that to their advantage, depending on what he found out, when the Others would not expect them to know.
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So the Others expected them to be ignorant of who they are and what they’re capable of thanks to Michael’s story. So they would be walking into a trap. They wanted Michael and the Others to think they were walking into a trap, but actually have some kind of great intel from Sayid that they could then spring on the Others in the form of some kind of advantage. That would be the surprise.
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Question is: Where is home?
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I had to search high and low for PART II of the premiere - including getting some motherfucker's idea of a joke FAKE version, before finding the real thing - it was frustrating as hell!
..and it don't help knowing they pay a fraction of the cost for more than TEN TIMES the speeds in places like KOREA -but I digress... -
That was a joke right
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"What surprise does the smoke ruin? The Others already know they're coming." Well, not from the beach, I guess? ^^;
But I should probably clarify myself: persnally, I never really thought they really had such an "element of surprise", indeed. I'm basically quoting Sayid who states that they _do_ (and that it's _all_ they have, but they seem quite confident anyway? huh).
Like I said, if I were them, I wouldn't try and attack the camp right away, but on my own terms and schedule. I would wait on it a bit. And then, maybe there would be an actual "element of surprise" indeed. It just seems silly to try and take the Others _precisely_ when the guys are preparing for a confrontation. 'Dunno why Jack and Sayid were in such a hurry. Maybe because it was the season finale? ^^;
Anyway, what was is it exactly that Sayid meant when he said that they had "the element of surprise"? Was it the fact that they would be coming from the beach? The fact that they would be coming with one extra guy (Sayid) who had been spying on them for a little while? It's just something that's not clearly said. Sayid claims they have "the element of surprise", and that's it. Oh, and also that in order to keep it, they need to pretend they trust Michael. How does that even...?? I don't know!
"The ‘surprise’ element is not an ambush, but the fact that they were going to get intel from Sayid and then use that to their advantage"
Maybe, yeah (even if Sayid really doesn't have any intel yet when he formulates that plan... and yet he talks about them already having the element of surprise?), but 1) I still don't see how that has anything to do with pretending to trust Michael (again, pretty much the only detail Sayid gave out regarding their supposed "element of surprise"), and 2) Sayid said he would be noting their positions, but that's really the kind of information that would lose all value once the Others spot a big pillar of smoke coming from the beach: obviously, those positions would change right there and then, while Sayid is waiting for Jack, sooo... Again, that pesky pillar of smoke. It really doesn't help them, does it? And they "need" that signal because they "need" Jack to form another party that will follow Michael's lead. Why exactly do they need that other party in the first place? Mystery!
(by the way, I know Sayid _also_ said that he would check out their numbers, how many weapons they have, etc, but... well, sorry to say, Sayid, but supposing the Others were indeed planning on springing the trap on Jack and co at the camp (which they _weren't_ really, but let's pretend things would play like Sayid assumed they would, for the sake of the argument), without even going there, one could already bet that there would _have_ to be enough of them to subdue Jack's party... after all, that was the Others' plan in the first place, right? so unless Sayid thinks of himself as some kind of super soldier who can turn the tide single-handedly, chances are there would be enough armed Others to subdue Jack's party + Sayid as well...) -
“SAYID: No. Michael cannot sense we know he is lying. All we have is the element of surprise, Jack. Right now it's only your responsibility to keep it secret.”
That’s the line you continue to quote but misunderstand. See, it has nothing to do with an ambush. Or that they would be coming from the beach. Or that they had an extra guy. You must not have been paying attention or do not remember correctly. It has to do with knowing the enemy’s hand. The surprise is a tactical advantage – the fact the Michael still trusts them. This is why they had to leave then and do it Michael’s way. To let him believe he is still in charge. For all they knew, Michael could have some way to communicate with the Others. So allowing Michael to continue to believe they are unaware is their element of surprise. This is also they couldn’t wait or even confront Michael about it. They would lose the element of surprise.
The smoke is just a way for them all to regroup after Sayid gets his intel. It’s fine if the Others know that it is them. That doesn’t ruin anything. They already think the Others believe that they are coming just as Michael planned. In fact, this is what they want them to think. They want the Others to think the Losties are doing exactly what Michael had planned.
Sayid needed to get that intel so that a real plan could be put together. Obviously if he discovered they were far more advanced than Michael had led on, then he would have stopped Jack’s team from going there. Or maybe he would have found something that would help them out. Like exactly where Walt was held. They knew nothing about these people, anything would have been helpful. That’s the point of regrouping.
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no need to PREACH to the UNCONVERTED big man! you are FEEDING A TROLL. u are correct on the MIKE and JACK dynamic. no reason to keep FEEDING....
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He just hates Lost. Trolls are posters who write things they do not believe in order to incite reactions for their own amusement. As long as no one has any more interesting input about the show, I will talk to the critics. Except on Tuesdays. Tuesdays are for the fans.
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sorry we have to disagree. no reason to STILL BE HERE if u dont like something. his arguements are moot really. if u dont like something and STILL post AFTER ur INITIAL arguement... then ur a TROLL. we get it ASSIHAGUE... u dont like LOST... POINT TAKEN NOW MOVE ON....
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since 3-d is better, Lost producers have agreed to shoot finale in 3-d, the crowd cheers!....jk
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1. If U rite in Princetalk or leet2. If you use unprovoked vulgarity - especially name calling3. If you repeatedly attack someone who is pointedly ignoring you4. if you really don't grasp how Kirbyesque and lame randomly highlighting words in ALLCAPS isthen you may already live under a bridge.
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You're right. There is a subtle difference between a troll and a desperate attention seeker.
For those who are *cough* 'curious' simply look at this talkback and ask yourself why anyone would devote so much time, day after day spouting hate about a show instead of simply, say... not fucking watching it like any sane or rational person would.
This is blatantly obviously someone with an axe to grind. Unless his own flawlessly written LOST beating TV pilot has somehow got tragically lost in transit to the Networks of course, and he's just preparing us for it's eventual awesome premiere by showing us his astonishing writing skill by nitpicking trivia and rehashing stuff we'd all heard years ago and rightly dismissed at the time. -
in that interview Crow linked to-
'What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” ... When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.'
in other words, yeah sometimes our characters do indeed come up with some pretty boneheaded ideas, don't stop to consider the consequences of their actions, and whatnot - WE WROTE THEM THAT WAY
once again, some people might consider a character making a mistake to be a flaw in the writing - but who's to say they're not MEANT to make that mistake?
I think someone mentioned shows like The Wire and Arrested Development as having superior writing to this show?
so... Arrested Development - nothing "boneheaded" going on there, huh? the actions of those characters always make perfect sense...?
and The Wire - nobody ever made the wrong choice in that show? seemed to me the ONLY character to come even close to never making a mistake on that show was Omar - and even he wasn't immune to making a misstep, by the end...
it's not "bad writing" for characters to make mistakes, do stupid things - in fact, that's pretty much just another device that writers use sometimes - it's not "lazy" if they MEANT for you to be shouting "NO!!! DON'T!!" at the screen, when the protag decides to check out that noise he heard, or why the screen just went dead, or what's behind that last door, or whatever... -
But loyalty can be both a fault and a strength. The fact is Omar could very easily have said it's just business a couple of times but he was just too loyal to those who mattered to him. That's who he was.
Doing the smart thing is not automatically the same as doing the right thing for a character. He knew he was walking into a trap with Marlo too but did it anyway. And it cost him and others. Almost random or not he still wouldn't have eventually been shot if he had just let it be.
I'm agreeing with you Maniaq BTW Just emphasizing that we don't want perfect robots incapable of error as characters. -
Ok. I have been living in Korea for a bit of time and a first time poster here. Here is the 411 on Sun and Jin
Mr. Paik is correct name usage as a married woman in Korea. Women do not take their husbands names. Americans generally call Korean women by the husband’s last names, but on official documents (such as passports) it will have the “maiden” name.
Also the Surname, last name (clan name) is said first (always) “Kwon Jin” and “Paik Sun”
As to the wedding rings: Wedding rings are a VERY new development in Korea. Traditionally women do NOT wear them. It can make for difficulty in meeting women with misunderstandings (trust me with first hand info on that one)! Now this being said, many more women now are wearing wedding rings, however it is purely a STATUS thing in which the husband is displaying his wealth. They are also not often worn even when the wife has a ring. It is also typically one band (not engagement and wedding) and Is not bound to what Americans would deem as typical.
Jin and Sun have had from the beginning a very non traditional relationship in Korean culture. A woman here would pretty much NEVER consider marriage to a man so below her station. Koreans are overly concerned about people’s position, status, and categorizing people into those slots. Jin and Sun broke a great deal of those “taboos”. In this timeline, I think perhaps Jin and Sun are more “traditional” Korean.
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Los Angeles, CA 90025
Instead of...
Beverly Hills, CA 90211
Which is where 8444 Wilshire Blvd is..
Prop error? joke? ..or clue the World is 5 miles different on that side. in that iteration.
br
Oh, and why was that girl picking the red flowers in the Temple ..when every one else was preparing for an attack? The same kind of Red Flowers Eko strolled through right before he had his talk with Un-Yemi. hmmpf. -
flawed characters are INTERESTING characters and perfect robots incapable of error are boring and have no real value in a drama
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2 separate time lines are created. The first is the one where our heroes’ teleport back to there proper time on the island where the “incident” caused the need for the button push device in the swan station which was built anyway. This we have seen and know. The second timeline also begins from the point Juliet hits the bomb in ’77 she vanishes as (well as Jack and co). The bomb explodes (after they vanish) causing the energy pocket to randomly teleport the entire island to a location underwater where everyone still on the island drowns. Everybody, including Charles Wilmore and Eloise (pregnant with Daniel), all the members of the DI and the Hostiles, little Ben etc. Time continues in the real world from 77 onwards without the presence of the island and continues along almost exactly the same way the original (from our perspective) did. The world in general doesn’t know about the island anyway. Except Charles Widmore doesn’t father Penny which drastically alters Desmonds timeline, Widmore also had connections with Suns father so this may have influenced how Sun was raised hence her not learning English. The others are long dead and don’t recruit Juliet to the island or kill her ex husband. Daniel was never born so doesn’t lobotomize his girlfriend in a crazy experiment. Most of the other losties live lives almost identical to that we’ve seen hence everyone on the same flight 815 in 2003 in the new timeline, and for the same reasons. Jack picking up his dads body, Kate a fugitive, Sawyer killing some poor pleb in Australia, Charlie trying to get the band back together, John going on a walkabout. Boone getting his step sis back but doesn’t this time (I hope we see why I bet some different interaction with another lostie probably sawyer or hurley), Hurley is there for different reasons though in the first timeline he was trying to get to the source of the numbers and his bad luck. Now he was in Australia on chicken recipe business! I think the point of this season is that the smallest change in the time line can have little or none or small or huge or weird changes in a person’s destiny. I think the island is still trying to steer the losties destiny though even from the depths of the ocean, snatching Christians coffin and Lockes knives to force Jack and John to meet each other. I’m betting Sawyer will cross paths with Lockes Dad (the original sawyer) and kill him again! Jack will heal Locke at some point also. Im also betting the Iraqi was done a mind swap with his alt personality following his death and hasn’t clue where he is now! More to ponder and post next week!!
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feel free to not post your crazyass predictions next week...
there are so many things i could correct, but i dont exactly feel like typing out an essay atm -
It's not a paradoc if they were digging through the debris of the original San implosion, but it is if they were digging through the abanadoned construction site of the Swan as I originally thought. Evidently it WAS the original implosion site though based on Des' stationary bike on the pile. Though it seems pretty dubious that Juliet ended up still alive inside that implosion debris. But I can live with it.
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Kirbyesque?
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I can't believe this conversation is till going on. Please stop. Trying to convince someone that has been watching the show since the beginning, and hating it almost as long, is insane.
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If he can't be happy no one else can. that's the bottom line. Ignore him.
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...about MiB being an amalgam of all the dead people.
But if MiB is the polar opposite of Jacob, does that mean Jacob is an amalgam of all the living people? ;-) -
He's from Los Angeles! He misses the smog!
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I see what you're saying, you thought that was the explosion site, not the Swan implosion site. Everyone got transported to the general vicinity of where they were when the bomb went off, so Juliet was still down in the hole.
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At first I was thinking that Hurley was being sarcastic to Sawyer when he said "I am the luckest man in the world." But then I started to think about it, if the bomb blew up then the numbers probably never came into existence. He just won the lotto with pure luck. Problem solved. Not. If all that was true then Hurley would not have to go to Australia for his own investigation of the numbers.
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For what it's worth.
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Feb 05, 2010 10:27:56 AM CST
Maybe the explosion changes the nature of the numbers.
by royston lodge
Maybe the numbers still "exist", but the way they exert power over the cosmos has been changed because of the explosion.
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So why is he on the plane.
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But I'm sure we'll find out.
I'm more curious to know if he used the same numbers to win the lottery in this new timeline. -
Feb 05, 2010 10:31:44 AM CST
um, AltHurley apparently didn't go to Aus for numbers...
by turketron_2
He didn't go there for investigation of the numbers, he went there to handle business related to his Australian Mr. Clucks. I'm curious to know if he used different numbers or came by the same ones under different circumstances in the other world though.
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Has anybody watched that sequence frame-by-frame?
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Menu or something. Look up the Comic-Con video to see a Mr. Cluck's commercial. Even Doc Arzt asks Hurley to quote his commercial with an Aussie accent. I'm sure he was traveling for business. And I'm guessing its all the same numbers, only they've been rearranged.
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So you submit comments like “ don’t feed the troll” because you don’t like all the bitching . but you also don’t like people submitting Theories? Why do you come to this talkback then? If you have problems with the “crazy” theories in my post then call me on some of them ,any of them (if you can) don’t just say you can pick them apart. Also I was spot on in my prediction of the season premier in an earlier talk back and some asshole talkbacker said I made no sense. (I called the Juliet’s tearful farewell to Sawyer) So maybe your just Threatened by theories that arnt your own?
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Creepy!
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At least someone has the attention span to read my "essays".
And champvinyl if your still there feel free to pick my theories /predictions apart (if you can)
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Was The Black Rock a slavers' ship?
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haven't read the whole thread so dont know if this has been siad yet or not, but I think the MIB is the good guy! Why? I think Jacob is the bad guy. He let Nadia be killed, he let Locke get pushed out of a window. he has been instructing the Others to do bad things all along. What has the MIB done that was truly evil? As the smoke monster he killed Eko who murdered a lot of people and refused to repent for it so he was killed. He killed Brahm and Jacob's crew but if Jacob is evil so are they. He beat up Richard but we dont know enough about Richard to know if he is good or bad yet. I dont remember, who else has the smoke monster killed to confirm my theory? I'm not saying he is god or anything but he may turn out to be the good guy in the end.
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When our heroes entered it back in the Season 1 finale, they found skeletons chained to the walls down in the brig.
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... to freaking KILL people! And why would Bocaj (the anti-Jacob as I've been calling him) or MiB (easier to type) yell out "I'M SO DISAPPOINTED IN ALL OF YOU!" What's he disappointed about? He thinks mankind always fights and corrupts and destroys... Is he disappointed that Jacob's chosen people, the Others, haven't done that yet and proven him right?
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By making a man the instrument of Jacob's death, he proved MiB's point.
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In the original timeline, Oceanic 815 is a 747. In the new timeline, it isn't. Any guesses why?
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Just curious, because your English is top-notch, if so.Lost is awesome. Haters are lame. Love the show. Most disappointed by the abandoned Walt and Libby story lines, and I could really go for a spin-off (miniseries?) called "The Dharma Initiative" that's all about life in the early 80s in Dharmatown. But I'm all cool. I understand there are limitations on storytelling imposed by the TV format, the vicissitudes of actors and writers, and so on. Given the ambitions of the series, they've really done an amazing things with this show.
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We don't know yet if Hurley spends any time in the loony-bin. Maybe he meets Libby and they fall in love and have really good-looking but morbidly obese children.
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Because the island was underwater, then raised up, catching the Black Rock. There's some mechanism that allows the island to rise or submerge. That's my crackpot theory.
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It was the Oceanic plane from Executive Decision that was a 747.
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Maybe it was en-route to an Australian penal colony when it ran aground on The Island?
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According to the auctioneer, The Black Rock was a trading ship en-route from England to Siam. Maybe the chained skeletons were mutineers?
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I'm pretty sure in the S1 finale, Locke concluded it was a sailing ship. But its possible there was a mutiny against the supposed Captain Magnus Hanso. I always figured Alpert would have been the ship's doctor, seeing as how he knows how to clean out bullet wounds and works for Mittlelos Labs and later Mittlelos BioScience (which, I hope, we get some clarification on).
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If you haven't read it yet, here's all the differences in the timeline. Lots of stuff here that I didn't notice, like the Dharma logo on the shark, or the fact that it's Jack's pen that Kate uses to pick the lock on the handcuffs. http://tinyurl.com/yzljntq
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Feb 05, 2010 11:39:44 AM CST
Royston how could you miss the return of Ezra J Sharkington!
by d.vader
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Hurley was also in a discussion with probably Mr. Cluck's legal team about Outback Steakhouse having problems with one of his Australian menu items.
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I haven't seen it mentioned, but I think there's a good chance that Sawyer isn't a conman in the alt timeline.1. We don't know if he killed anyone in Sydney this time.2. He warns Hurley about telling others about his lottery winnings (he may not go by 'Sawyer' either... just James Ford). He may be genuinely concerned since his mother and father were swindled.On the other hand he does help Kate escape.Thoughts?
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Probably asleep in a basket next to his master J.J. Abrams, in L.A. and the entire story of LOST was Vincent's dream after lapping up crumbs from one of Abrams' pot brownies.
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Which suggests he didn't kill anyone in Australia.
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Sawyer told Juliette in 1977 that his parents weren't dead yet, so if jughead did sink the island (which I'm not sold on), then Jacob went down with it before meeting Sawyer at the funeral. Sawyer doesn't write the note and maybe has a better life because of it. Or then again, he's still a con man and going to con ole Hugo out of some lottery money and fried chicken.
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the pilot in the pilot and Rosseau's crew.
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Needless violence - check
Annoying string music to add tension when nothing is really happening - check
Semi-useless flashbacks, flash forwards, flash sideways - check
Great characters - Hurley, Sawyer, Miles, Locke, Desmond - Check
Frustrating lack of answers - No check- there is a sense that things are are being revealed.
Filler - check...nothing really happened in the first 2 episodes that couldn't have been covered in half an hours tv.
Entertaining - check
So that's a sixth of the final season gone and it feels okay. I still don't like the ham-fisted way that folk are forced into conflict. Who are these other Others and why would their first instinct be to shoot Hurley and co - purely for entertainment purposes. Thats my biggest criticism of this show that, for all folk try to say its clever, its not, it uses comic book set ups to get characters to fight each other.
Still that aside there have been no great illogical acts by any of the characters which is a refreshing change and, although I think some key puzzles from earlier seasons are going to be ignored, this still feels like it could be heading to a satisfactory conclusion.
Here's hoping
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someone mentioned "the sickness" and Rousseau's team - one of which we saw this episode, I believe?
I don't think there ever actually was a "sickness" - that was just the only possible interpretation a young and naive Rousseau could possibly come up with to exmplain why her team suddenly "changed" - like how Locke changed and none of us ever guessed it was because he wasn't actually Locke any more!
Yes we all know people who go to the temple "will never be the same again" when they come back, but I'm not convinced it is because they have become "possessed" necessarily...
also, it occurred to me that Ben was obviously healed by the Waters of Life but was he subsequently banned from there, or does it only work once?
coz that should have been able to take care of his tumour, surely?
and Sanada tested the waters by cutting his hand, so surely it doesn't just work once?
Ben must have been victim to the banhammer at some point, no?
before someone says "yes but he goes to the temple all the time!" well yes but do they let him IN? -
I'm reserving my judgement on whether or not he's "different" - so far the 5 seconds or so we've seen is not enough to form an opinion on (in my opinion!?)
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Feb 05, 2010 5:06:00 PM CST
The hour-glass whispers to the lion's roar.. Spoilery speculatio
by macfaux
Feature the point of the new / oppo / bizarro /alt /Un-universe is being missed. Everyone, me self included, has been focusing on the windage and elevation of the physics and meta physical ..the how and the why? Are the how and why the primary consideration? Maaaybe, perhaps the primary considering should be the actual target downrange. The Who, What, Where ..and importantly When?
To misappropriate and misapply Faraday's earlier assumption; Whatever happened, happened. Or rather something did happen. We are seeing it. And as Keamy said to Desmond on the other side of things, in an 'other' life ..The LA X Losties are there ...It is happening. Whether this a mirror, a dream, a glimpse, a parallel, a schism, whatever man... We are seeing something new. Something previously different and presently divergent and prospectively digressing... with every pico-second that passes from the moment they flew over, on and by the sunken Island.
Our Bias.. hmmpf ..Our bias born out of seasons past and experienced presently cloud our perception. Couldn't that be what TPTB are attempting to do here? Challenge everything we have learned and think we know about these characters 'nature'...who might now or not, by some intervening (Jacob's touch and gifting) event have lived with a somewhat different 'nurture'? And isn't that the fundamental and inherent conflict we have seen between Jacob and MiB? Is a person, are human beings what they are by circumstance and choice or universal fated design? It is not a re-boot or a reset as much as a different.. perspective possibility. An aspect we could not see before because we didn't have the angle on the shot.
It is as the Master said, "No different, only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."
We don't know what we know or don't. Yet. Who they are. Where they have been. What they have done. When they did it. Perhaps, in the now we see, on this side, in this life, this iteration, the LA X losties are not who we know or 'Knew' the 815ers to be:
~Note: This idnt a front run theory ..typed it last May 15th node 41067~Self. Horn. Toot. Toot.
http://tinyurl.com/JamesACop
Ω
*Kate Austen is in custody. This we see again. Did she do it? Whatever 'it' is? Are you sure she did it? Do you have any proof in this iteration, she is guilty of that for which she is accused? Or what you knew her to be accused of? Or do you let your bias from the things you believe you know cloud your perception. Predispose your judgment?
*John Locke is not an angry and embittered man, but at peace and indomitable.
*Hugo Reyes is not suffering his self-esteem or believe himself cursed, but lucky, blessed and confident in his foot a trail..
*James Ford is not consumed with a desire for wicked vengeance, but burns with the purpose of righteous justice. Protection and Service. His advice to Hugo was cautionary, not predatory. And like Kate, do you have any proof, other than what you have known .. Who James Ford is? Are you sure he is a con-man? Are you sure he killed anyone in Australia? You know who the best liars (well among the best) in the world are other than sociopathic con-man? Undercover cops. Conjure maybe, just maybe, he didn't burn kate because he was on the job. Could not break cover.
*Sayid Jarrah is not a cold-blooded killer. Did not become a torturer, but stayed a communication officer ...Sayid's changing hair.
*Jack Shephard is not angry, and afraid, and alone. He is not self-loathing. He appreciated his Father rather than resenting him. He does not try to Will himself past every obstacle in his path. He is Willing to ask for help.
*The Kwons. interestingly I found them to be the most similar to their seen selves. hhmpf. As were Rose and Bernard. Does coupling define and make things permanent?
And if in this iteration, those we know / known carry more virtue than vice, when the collision comes, as you must know it ..must. Which side will hold sway? The dark or the light? ...and Jacob's touch is the Soul's transit.
The hour-glass whispers to the lion's roar,
The clock-towers tell the gardens day and night
How many errors Time has patience for,
How wrong they are in being always right.
Yet Time, however loud its chimes or deep.
However fast its falling torrent flows,
Has never put one lion off his leap
Nor shaken the assurance of a Rose.
For they, it seems, care only for success:
While we choose words according to their sound
And judge a problem by its awkwardness;
And Time with us was always popular.
When have we not preferred some going round
To going straight to where we are? -
maybe the waters only heal wounds that are inflicted, not diseases that develop.
Or, you know, maybe not that. -
Re: The Others. How about that they're just assholes? The idea that everyone acts pleasantly logical is in itself far more illogical than the Others' behavior. People are often unpleasant for no apparent reason, or no reason at all.
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"And so, unknown to even her closest friends, Rick Mason and Cindy Lee, she became a dual person: Andrea Thomas, teacher...
OH MIGHTY ISIS!
. . . and Isis, dedicated foe of evil, defender of the weak, champion of truth and justice!
..And Isis was also instrumental in the resurrection of Osiris when he was murdered by Set. Ya know Set, the judge, God of Chaos, bringer of the winds? who killed his younger brother Osiris? Her magical skills restored his body to life after she gathered the body parts that had been strewn about the earth by Set...like ashes. yeah. -
the final image of LOST thats been planned for years, that matthew fox, darlton, and jack bender claim to know? http://bit.ly/9dwTBv
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I assume its the Island. What are you talking about, this final image that Fox and Darlton and Bender know about?
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Matthew Fox has been telling people he knows the final image and has known for years now. Darlton said the same thing, and most recently, Jack Bender. I know it could be the island, but what if its something else? And why is it hidden under a cover?
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"The surprise is a tactical advantage – the fact the Michael still trusts them. This is why they had to leave then and do it Michael’s way. To let him believe he is still in charge."
'Not seeing how that would translate into a tactical advantage of any sort, sorry. Knowing Michael is up to something, yeah, sure. But pretending they don't know? Letting Michael think he's still in charge? Not seeing it. Well, unless it's _Michael_ they're trying to surprise, naturally! ^^
"For all they knew, Michael could have some way to communicate with the Others."
Like what? ?_?
Besides, doesn't Jack screw that up anyway, on the way to the camp? He exposes Michael, remember? So what gives?
"The smoke is just a way for them all to regroup after Sayid gets his intel. It’s fine if the Others know that it is them. That doesn’t ruin anything."
It does in the sense that it's an unexpected element, as far as the Others are concerned: black smoke coming from the beach behind them? Not part of the plan. "Huh. Look at that. What are those Losties up to, now? What the fuck did Michael do?" And from that point on, Sayid's intel regarding their positions prior to the black smoke? Not all that relevant anymore.
"Obviously if he discovered they were far more advanced than Michael had led on, then he would have stopped Jack’s team from going there."
"If"? Like I said in my previous reply to you, don't you think it was pretty much a given that the Others would _indeed_ be far more of a threat than Michael had led on? Or what kind of trap would that be?
"Or maybe he would have found something that would help them out. Like exactly where Walt was held."
I'll give you that one (the last thing about Walt specifically, I mean). But again, if the Others suspect that something is up, that not everything is going as planned (the kind of idea they might get after catching glimpse of a pillar of black smoke rising from a beach near their camp), they might well move Walt... -
"For those who are *cough* 'curious' simply look at this talkback and ask yourself why anyone would devote so much time, day after day spouting hate about a show instead of simply, say... not fucking watching it"
I already answered that one, remember? Of course, you decided I was lying, but that was just you being wrong and narrow-minded. -
hey im about as big as a lost fan as you will find, my family just got the dvd set and i have seen every episode at least twice. i dont pay attention to critics, i mean writing six seasons of forty mintue episodes each with mystery suspense adventure characters story, no one can do a perfect job. i feel most plot holes can be imagined by the viewer and aren't too inconsistent. however in watching season 5 one thing really bugs me. id like to hear a true fans response. it can only be explained by thinking rasinski is about a 100 times bigger idiot than before. pay attention to the episode 'hes our you' my point is that gin and rasinski both arrest sayid in the jungle, and rasinski outranks gin. next we see them bring sayid to a room, not the prison. sawyer arrives and rasinski points out that sayid could have seen the model and the survey, lying in the open in the room he brought him in. he starts freaking out that sayid is a spy and must die, later spreading the feeling to others. WHY DIDNT HE TAKE HIM TO THE PRISON AND NOT THE ROOM WITH THE PLANS? is he bloodthirsty or dumb? and no one pointed that out? i dont think i missed anything...i guess it doesnt matter too much because ben would break out sayid anyway. but rasinski's hole spiral into madness seems to start when sayid arrives, and he thinks he's a spy, but he brings him right to their secret plans. ridiculous. although the last finale and new premiere have me enjoying this show more than ever.
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"I like how Darlton talks about their characters' stupid plans" Yeah, I, too, like the amount of BS those two are prepared to spout in clumsy attempts to cover their asses... "They were always supposed to be dumb!", "It was all the actress' fault!", "It's the journey, not the destination!"... The sad thing being that their transparent Jedi mind tricks seem to be working on a bunch of people...
"Arrested Development - nothing "boneheaded" going on there, huh?"
Er... The show is about Michael Bluth having to look after his family... because they're a bunch of moronic self-centered monsters. The series is a comedy, and that's where 99% of the comedy comes from. So unless you'd argue that Lost is a drama where 99% of the drama steams from the fact most if not all of the characters are complete idiots (I might just agree!) and that it is that way by design (OK, I wouldn't agree anymore, there), I'm not sure I see your point in bringing that up...
"it's not "bad writing" for characters to make mistakes, do stupid things"
It is when the characters in question had been established as being reasonably intelligent people, and they suddenly become complete idiots for no apparent reason. That's how you get "idiot plots", and yes, it's bad writing.
"flawed characters are INTERESTING characters and perfect robots incapable of error are boring and have no real value in a drama"
Nobody's saying the characters should be flawless people, just that they should be portrayed in a coherent manner (no unexplained IQ drops, for example). That's entirely different. -
i noticed how oliver types lots of negative lost stuff. that is fine and all. but it seems funny that if he knows many people at all he probably knows someone who likes lost in real life. and that conversation would be like, 'i love lost!' 'why that show sucks!' 'no its cool!' 'whatever. u want to get tacos?' but on the internet, he can just go on, and on, and on, about why it sucks. in real life, no one wants to listen to opinions constantly disagreeing with their own. no matter who is right.
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Jack only discontinued the ruse after he saw Sayid’s black smoke and realized that Michael was leading them to a place other than where he said he was. There was no way the plan was going to work any longer and he certainly wasn’t going to just let Michael lead them into a trap. You must not remember that. Watch the episode again and save me the trouble of explaining it.
Sayid’s black smoke doesn’t tell the Others that their trap was discovered. In fact, it does the opposite. It tells them that everything is going according to plan – the Losties are coming and their close. That’s what the Losties wanted them to think. The Losties wanted them to expect them. The black smoke tells the Others that everything was going according to plan!
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Its obvious nothing will change his mind about the "idiot plot".
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LOST does not.
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"Jack only discontinued the ruse after he saw Sayid’s black smoke and realized that Michael was leading them to a place other than where he said he was."
You should refresh your memories of that episode... Jack exposed Michael well before the black smoke.
Basically, it went like this: Sayid is still sailing twoard his destination, Kate and Swayer realize they're being watched by a couple of Others spies, a fight ensues, Sawyer shots one of them dead, and when they're about to try and chase the other one, Jack goes (I'm paraphrasing) "no! there's no need anyway: they know we're coming... isn't that right, Michael?"
(of course, one could argue that getting their hands on a still-breathing Other would have been a potential tactical advantage... but if Jacks says there's no point, he must be right, huh? after all, they already have so much going for them, what with their airthight plan and all!)
And then...
HURLEY: We're all going to get killed and you knew it! You let us come anyway.
JACK: It's too late to go back now, Hurley. We already caught them following us once. If they don't believe that we trust Michael, they'll kill us all.
They'll _what_?? Where does _that_ one come from, now?
Basically, everything's fair game, any excuse, no matter how random or nonsensical, _as long as they follow Michael_. Because they need to get caught. Because the writers want to open next season with Jack and co being captive. And that's all there is to it.
You're not supposed to be thinking about all that. Just enjoy the ride, like Heroes' Kringe taught us. That's the proper way to watch Lost. -
'Can't believe I misspelled the name of one of my favorite heroes!
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Feb 06, 2010 12:14:18 AM CST
you know Ollie, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree
by maniaq
you just don't seem to be able to get past the fact that intelligent people sometimes make stupid mistakes - have "sudden IQ drops" if you will - especially when their lives are in danger and they have to think fast, as opposed to take all week to think about it, from the comfort of their loungerooms...
seems to me like you're the only one who cannot accept this
I don't think anybody is denying it happens occasionally but nobody else chalks it up to "bad writing" and your dismissal of the ACTUAL writers saying they purposely wrote in those stupid mistakes to show the consequences - saying they're "covering" their own mistakes - reminds me of how a paranoid schizophrenic finds a way to integrate any contrary evidence into his delusion to keep it from shattering into a million pieces...
I'm sorry matey but I can only keep saying the same thing over and over again so many times, before I have to concede that the point is not getting through
I do hope you eventually can find a way to reconcile your problems with these characters because it obviously diminishes your enjoyment of an excellent show -
When you dissect it to death as we have, there are always things that you could argue should be done differently – especially with so many unknowns and variables. Most of them boil down to personal opinion. Like I said, this scene is not Lost’s proudest moment as there are multiple angles you could argue where the plan is flawed. These flaws are probably easier to see when you already hate the show and are looking for things to hate. But I think it’s far from an idiot plot.
You seem to have five or so unrelated points about where the plan is an idiot plot, and as you continue to discuss it you continue to find more (you’re latest one, Jack’s line). You’re becoming further entrenched in your perception. No wonder you can’t enjoy the show.
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I believe I can think of a simple explanation for that one: whereas the internet comes with this really handy and 100% effective switch just in case you really can't take it anymore and need a fucking break, in real life, punching people in the face so they'd finally stop talking is generally considered "uncivilized". ^^
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"When you dissect it to death as we have, there are always things that you could argue should be done differently – especially with so many unknowns and variables."
And I'd argue the "many unknowns" are the main reason Lost isn't (yet? one can hope...) getting the same critical backlash Heroes does. Both shows are terribly written, but Lost goes for the long con whereas Heroes consists of several mostly independant "volumes". Lost fans got used to the idea that Lost was a _long_ mystery-based show, so whenever something doesn't appear to make sense, they can still "rationalize" it with a quick "the show isn't over yet". That makes it all a matter of faith in the end, and the infernal duo sure got a lot of mileage out of that.
"You seem to have five or so unrelated points about where the plan is an idiot plot, and as you continue to discuss it you continue to find more (you’re latest one, Jack’s line)."
'Goes to show how badly-written the show is. :þ -
You’ve heard of this right? I think you can’t help but seek out and assess parts of the shows as flaws because your brain has already decided that it is a bad show and your reticular activation system seeks out evidence to validate this belief. You could say the opposite for Lost fans of course, we only appreciate the good and are unable to see the flaws. But I’m curious, where did things originally go wrong for you that put you on this path? At what moment when you were watching the show did this all begin?
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"you just don't seem to be able to get past the fact that intelligent people sometimes make stupid mistakes - have "sudden IQ drops" if you will - especially when their lives are in danger and they have to think fast, as opposed to take all week to think about it, from the comfort of their loungerooms... "
If Jack and Sayid really had to think fast, I guess that could at least go toward justifying their (really) stupid plan, yes. Like I said, my problem is with _unexplained_ IQ drops (unexplained in-story, but with an obvious meta-explanation: the writers just wanted things to unfold _that_ way, even if that meant coming up with an "idiot plot").
But was that the case, here? Did Jack and Sayid have to "think fast"? They acted like they just _had_ to deal with the Others _right there and then_, but there really was no reason to rush things (_on the contrary_, one might argue)... other than the fact it was the season finale. -
"I think you can’t help but seek out and assess parts of the shows as flaws because your brain has already decided that it is a bad show and your reticular activation system seeks out evidence to validate this belief. You could say the opposite for Lost fans of course"
Indeed. ^^
In fact, it's interesting that you'd use the word "belief", considering how we were talking about "faith" earlier... How you still had faith the writers wouldn't let you down, and how any faith I might have had in them had been eroded by the many, many "oddities" (to put it kindly) I spotted in the series (there would also be the writers' interviews that always manage to rub me the wrong way...).
Can you see what I'm getting at? ^^
"where did things originally go wrong for you that put you on this path? At what moment when you were watching the show did this all begin?"
Considering it was a gradual process, I'm not sure I could really point at a precise scene or episode in the series and go "that was it right there!"... Hrmm...
The sheer amount of possible supernatural "leads" they threw in during the first season had already raised a few... well, maybe not "alarms", but "suspicions" at the very least. But I was still very much willing to keep some faith in the showrunners and see where they were going with this "Hatch" thingy. I'd say my "fears" got shape during the course of season 2. By the end of that season, I seem ro remember I was pretty much convinced the show would end up being a mess. The rest of the series did a very good job at comforting me in that opinion. -
You seem to have two separate categories for things you don’t like about the show. The vast unanswered (unanswerable to you) questions, and what you think is sloppy writing like this season 2 finale scene we discussed. I think I had a lot of trouble with Season 2 and lost a lot of faith there. But after seeing how some things came together in Season 3 it renewed my faith in the writers. The show continued to impress me ever since. It’s funny you went in the opposite direction.
Since we’re talking I’d like to change the topic. I’m curious about what you think will happen this season on the show and how you think the show will end. If you’re so familiar with the writers you should know the direction they are going.
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If MIB is Smokey, why did he leave the room or "vanish" before appearing? Surely not because Lost couldn't afford the SFX costs involved in showing it onscreen. Last season Ben somehow summoned Smokey and how he did it wasn't shown onscreen either. See, MIB lied about being the Smoke Monster to make everyone fear him. The Prince of Lies does things like that, y'know. Get it? The "Prince of Lies"? That's why Smokey was wandering around while MIB was trapped in the cabin. Two different entities. And MIB can't "go back home" to Hell until Jacob/Jesus (healing touch!healing water!healing island!) is out of the picture... Good vs. Evil? This is Christ vs. the Devil, folks.
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Seems like all those wild theories in talkbacks past about the whispers being the souls of dead people trapped on the island or from a parallel universe may have been on target.
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I await to be proved wrong but I think that Losts big problem lies in the "mystery " or puzzle element of the show.
When you look at the preview to seasson 6 and the recap of whats gone before it all lays out quite simply and i think you can start to see the outline of where this is going.
The problem is that the writeres set this up to have questions in the audiences mind since day 1 and folk have therefore tagged every single inconsistency or piece of flim flam as a question to be answered. Its given everything an added level of importance that, like knowing how a magic trick is done, is eventually going to be disappointing when you get the answer. E.g Polar bears on the island- yep used by Dharma for research - yawn.
The writers have done this themselves to make the show initially more exciting and so they can throw in the frequent outrageous WTF moments. But, as many of us can see, there is going to be a price for this when the magician finally shows his wares.
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Re: The Others. How about that they're just assholes? The idea that everyone acts pleasantly logical is in itself far more illogical than the Others' behavior. People are often unpleasant for no apparent reason, or no reason at all.
Exactly per my post above - this is quite feasible
The Losties are engaged in an ongoing vicious battle with the Others (who mysteriously first appear in false beards) - Why- well because the Others are over aggressive ass-holes who are trying to "protect" their magic island.
That wouldn't quite live up to the mystery around the Others that we had on first watching Lost would it.
In fact bearing in mind the actions of some of the Losties (my favourite being Jacks "we've all got to lie"), fans of this show may eventually have to concede that generally its a story about one bunch of assholes fighting another bunch of assholes.
Case in point on this is the Dharma initiative. The first few series are "What was the Dharma initiative - well its quite mundane really - they were there to research the Island - so all those mysterious clips of the Dharma in the first series that carried so much potential - now don't. What did carry potential was knowing that Dharma were going to be wiped out by the Others and so, when Sawyer and Co went back in time and lived with Dharma there was an opportunit to build a real sense of impending doom and pathos around the Dharma folk - except they were over aggressive assholes as well!!!!
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yes it was awesome. Yes Oliver occasionally has a point about the flaws in the show. Yes, if he watches it so intently he should just do what I do and just roll with it...its more fun that way
After seeing this, I'm more open to the answering the questions they've posed...colour me converted -
the questions they've posed" fucking sticky 'm' key
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Feb 06, 2010 7:35:12 AM CST
The only time not asking questions got on my nerves
by not_snitskys_fault
I know some people on here are really upset that we don't see the characters asking what is this? What causes that? But the only time it really bothered me was when Jack brought Juliette to the beach. Everyone wanted to know what was going on, but Jack just said she could answer their questions when she was ready, based solely on the fact that he saw her face when the sub exploded. I just wanted someone to say shut up Jack, I want to know everything there is to know about this damn island. It seems at the very least Frogurt would have ran up and been a dick.
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On the island a smoke monster took the form of Christian Shepherd. Eloise Hawking told Jack he had to take John Locke's dead body on flight 316 "to take the place of your father". Once on the island, a smoke monster took the form of John Locke, in effect taking Christian's place. Christian was seen in the Cabin where peple were looking for Jacob. Jacob's Nemesis is the smoke monster posing as John Locke. Jacob was seen off the island. Jacob was seen at the Hospital where Jack worked where Jack also saw his dead father. We have not seen Nemesis off the island. When Sun and Lapidus were in Jacob's cabin with Christian, they saw a smoke monster posing as UnLocke. We have never seen any instance of the smoke monster posing as two people at once.Therefore, Jacob was the white smoke and light monster JOhn Locke gazed at in wonder. Nemesis was the black smoke and darkness monster that tried to pull JOhn Locke under ground as he screamed in terror. Every instance of UnLocke was Nemesis/black smoke monster. I think every instance of dead Christian Shepherd, on island and off, was Jacob/other smoke monster.
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Kate totally stole Jack's pen. When Jack was trying to save Charlie he looked in his jacket pocket and said "I had a pen." When the US Marshall let Kate use the rest room she puled a pen from her pocket to try to jimmy her handcuffs. If a pen could be used to spring the cuffs or as a weapo, the Marshall would not have let Kate have a pen, therefore she snagged it on the plane by picking Jack's pocket.
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Did it make anyone else nervous to see Hurley wearing a red shirt?
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Feb 06, 2010 8:18:48 AM CST
Life imitates fiction... or is it Leif imitates fiction?
by vikkimarsdale
Charlie arrested at airport with heroin. Leif Garrett arrested at airport with heroin. Coincidence? Could be.
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Well to me the mystery of the Others, as you put it, was never if they were jerks or not. That was apparent from the get-go. So I don't think the mystery has been solved such as it is: who are they? What are they doing there? We know they're assholes but not WHY.
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I've been forced to censor your posts; they have the stench of Oliver Hague all over them.
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Yep and imagine in all of this you don't ever stop to discuss whats going on ?
And when you get off the Island you decide to lie about it to protect the others you left behind.
Then you decide for reasons that aren't immediately obvious to go back.
That takes some imagination. !!! -
That you have with characters in hooror films who split up and go into unlit places on their own ?
Empathy for the terminally stupid. -
when christian visited jack at the hospital the smoke detector went off. Also, sun and lapidus were NEVER at jacob's cabin
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hurley's been wearing that red shirt for a couple seasons now.. so maybe he's been dead all along!! :) Or.. maybe it attracts the dead?
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Than you can possibly imagine."
Why didnt Jacob fight back? Cause it's all part of the plan.
Jacob can still appear to Hurley, who warned the Temple Others about the free MIB/Smokey.
Wonder if Jacob can appear to Hurley in the other Flash-Sideways "Luckiest Man on the planet" world/reality/timeline. You know what I'm sayin. -
This is coming from a friend of mine Marc Oraminer, who wrote the Myth of LOST. He too feels Jacob (and D&C) definitely planted this SW mythology. It's already worked as dead Jacob has appeared to Hurley in LA X. In this he warned the Temple to prepare for war.
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the only reason he would need to warn the temple about the coming attack is if he was already dead... so you don't say "he died to warn them about the war"..
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I didnt say he died to warn them.
I said Jacob died and can still be powerful. An example is the fact Jacob knows he can appear to Hurley...and then my quote:
"In this he warned the Temple to prepare for war."
What sense would it make for Jacob to die just to be able to warn the Temple? Please bro, I'm no troll. Can I get some more credit? -
Just figured Fett would read into it a bit more.
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I still don't understand what you originally meant, but no worries. I know you're not a troll, sizzlechest. But you definitely got jellyfeet, ya milkylicker :)
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I meant Jacob meant fr Ben to kill him. Thus by striking him down, he has become more powerful and MIB/smokey has underestimated him. Written him off.
Jacob can still use the Losties to fight against him. -
but what about pissclams?
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Loved it, and as usual with Lost and me enjoyed it a little more the second time.
Really keen to learn more about Dogen, is he a recent other, or has been around for a long time like Richard. Was watching it with my wife (who is Japanese) and asking her to translate everything he said to see if we were getting the full story in the translations and we were.
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"You seem to have two separate categories for things you don’t like about the show. The vast unanswered (unanswerable to you) questions, and what you think is sloppy writing like this season 2 finale scene we discussed."
Well... It's not that I dislike pending questions, it's that I generally expect them to eventually get answered (especially when the writers explicitly made that promise early on). And yeah, in the case of Lost, even if the series isn't quite over yet, it seems fairly obvious that a lot of questions, some of them fairly important, will never get answered. And it really isn't surprising considering they started of the series by throwing in a lot of different (a apparently unrelated at first glance) supernatural "leads" like it's free candy, seemingly without a care in the world. Just how convulated would the (supposed/promised) ultimate answer need to be to connect all that stuff in a satsifying manner? _A lot_.
So maybe they're really, really genial writers and they knew what they were doing, great. In which case, awesome: I'm in. But if they just hoped they'd somehow improvise their way out of this maddening maze, they really aren't all that bright people. And of course, if they simply didn't really care about all that in the first place, well, fuck 'em.
But that's where the second thing you brought up comes in: there's a lot of stupid shit in the series. The idiot plots, the video game logic (you're not supposed to be wondering who decided to censor that bit of the Swan reel and hide the excerpt in some bible in another part of the island, nor why, or anything like that... just like when your video game character finds some ammo for his Beretta in a fridge... what's up with this crazy shit? here's what's up: "just don't think about it and take the damn thing: there's a boss around the next corner!"), the protagonists' eery lack of curiosity, etc. Those are all "Hack Signature Moves". Not something you'd expect from good writers, far from it.
So am I supposed to be thinking, against all evidence, that those guys really are geniuses that simply have yet to play their cards?
Sorry, but I'd rather rely on this little bit of conventional wisdom: the less convulated explanation often tends to be the correct one. The writers probably simply are the hacks their interviews and scripts make them out to be, and the series every bit of the mess it appears to be. I don't expect a final twist in this story anymore than I'd expect Jesus to hold a conference on TV next week and tell us what he's been up to those past few millennia.
"I’m curious about what you think will happen this season on the show and how you think the show will end."
I'm thinking most if not all of the answers we'll get will be to questions asked in the very same season. Stuff like who's this fake Locke and what he's up to, what's with up this alternate "the plane just landed" reality...
And if I were to take wild guesses at what those answers will be... I guess I'd say the alternate reality stuff we're seeing is the "true" ending of the series, a new universe that the "on-island protagonists" will end up creating (or assisting in creating) in the series finale (or at least, that's probably the explanation I'd come up with if it were up to me). And the fake Locke will probably serve as this season's bad guy, just like Widmore (ah, the memories!) briefly played that part a while ago. Let's just hope he won't be too simplisitc an antagonist, and that his motivations won't be too sucky. "I want to go home"? "Prisoner" of the island who never could stand his cellmate (Jacob)? Interdimensional being stranded in our physical world? Dunno. But I don't have high expectations. It will probably end up being fairly manichean ("see, there's black, and then, there's white! deep stuff!").
"If you’re so familiar with the writers you should know the direction they are going."
Down the shitter?
(sorry, that was too tempting! ;þ) -
"just imagine - really try and imagine - you are dumped on this mysterious fucking scary island, having survived a fucking plane crash, then observe as a mysterious group of people apparantly pick you off or kidnap you one by one. [...] Do you really think 100% for sure that this would not outweigh your iq in such a given moment and you would keep a cool head and your wits about you?"
Frankly? I think I'd be one of those no-name sheep survivors. Meaning I'd end up with flaming arrows in my ass, an off-screen inglorious death, no final words to utter because I'd be a mute extra, and I wouldn't even be a faint memory in the true protagonists' minds in the end.
But we were talking about Jack and Sayid, here, right? ^^
See, the thing is Jack and Sayid weren't simply established as being reasonably intelligent people. They were established as being reasonbably intelligent (and capable, and resourceful) people _on the crazy island you've just been describing_. They've seen all that crazy stuff, been through all kind of supernatural danger, and still showed they could keep their shit together. I'm not sure I know of many people who could fix a broken radio, and Sayid does it on Crazy Island. How badass is that?
_And yet_, we have this spectacular and completely unexplained "lapse", here.
Sorry, but it seems fairly obvious to me that the writers simply really, _really_ wanted to have Jack's ass transfered in Other Prison (oh, and to get rid of Walt, the-boy-who-grew-up-too-fast-seriously-why-did-noone-warn-us-about-this-puberty-stuff). Everything was "fair game" to get there, even nonsensical plans and decisions. -
Luuuucky. You have a wife that would indulge your fan boy and translate a tawny tale? outstanding.
I fancy you, as so few do, and unlike certain choads.. *cough* Olivier Hague *cough* ...yhe few, who, some of us few who embrace each and every new 'variable' inserted in the equation. Hoping only more for... more. "So what's your story?" and all. I only hope that Dogen is an ancient Samurai, or as typed above, a soldier stranded and left behind.. And if not? sigh. We got nine minutes of his awesome. What could be better. Sanada-san!
Ps. Oli Hag. Of course the writers are grand. In much contradiction to your many foolish and futile posts pointing non-such out. why?
They have obviously kept your attention, even in the negative, for years, as long as they pleased. Your still here. bitchin. Like a kinder who got White instead of Chocolate milk... Ya are still drinkin it. Your groan is about specific taste not transcendent satiation. So, enjoy the quench and stop the whinge. -
Unfortunately I am overseas and haven't see the premiere or been able to DL it yet. So, I have indulged in reading this talkback to keep up to date. And I have had to suffer AGAIN through your drunken ramblings.
Unlike EVERY OTHER SINGLE PERSON on this TB who wants a response from another person (even the trolls want a response), I can practically hear you chuckling as you type your mal mots. You are Frasier Crane without the self-awareness. In fact, I will simply refer to you as MacFrasier from now on. You like Googling obscure quotes? Here's one that you remind me of:
"Apes don't read philosophy."
"Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it." -
Feb 07, 2010 11:09:41 AM CST
@Darryl_Revok ..pffft. well. At least ya didn't call me stupid.
by macfaux
Know how I know your a child? Macfuckstick was the best you could come up with. I bet you spent *chuckle* ..well. That. And to mention...
Revok is an archetype for murdering Nazi euro-douches.. He was also a coward. But, heh, maybe ya can scan me? Hmmpf. Still. I digress.
Well. As Otto did say... "If it wasn't for us, you'd all be speaking German!, Singing "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles...” *snort*..
Alzo..dumb as Otto might have been he still was bedding Wanda wadn't he. What are you sleepin with? Ooooh. Can I buy ya some jergens to go with that jerkins. *snicker*
MacFrasier. I likes. Danka, douche. -
That's the best you can do? Sexual innuendo? What's the matter, got tired of using the homo-erotic come-ons? Or did it get your Ancient Mariner a little too frisky, thinking about it?Just how old are you, that everyone is a 'child' to you? Stop scaring the kiddies, you geriatric jackass. Not with your words, but with a vision of a future where someone might wind up a broken down old drunk rambling away at a keyboard, pissing away what precious moments he has left.
And it is *you're* when you mean *you are*, not *your*. And it's not a typo when you constantly do it.Hadn't they invented contractions yet when you went to school in the Dark Ages?
Snorting, snickering, chuckling and sexual innuendo. Dick Cavett you're not.I'll quote Otto again: Assshooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole! -
I did call you stupid. You just didn't understand it.
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FUCK YOU DARRYL. MacFaux is the man, brotha. Can you hear that?
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...on the internet. Cute.
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Growing up in the Bronx will do that actually.
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Don't even worry about it, man. You never had anything meaningful to say, anyway. Go kiss Lost's ass some more without holding the show's creators accountable for ANY blunders in storytelling whatsoever.
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on a mysterious island. that way he can have a glorious flaming arrowed death he wants. he'll be actually debating how "valid" his death is AD NAUSEUM with his killers. ASSIHAGUE- why did u soot me in the back from the North side of the island??? thats so stupid... Everyone knows u come in from the East side....and another thing blah blah blah.....
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"Of course the writers are grand. In much contradiction to your many foolish and futile posts pointing non-such out. why? They have obviously kept your attention, even in the negative, for years, as long as they pleased."
I kept watching Lost just like I kept watching Heroes, just like I keep watching Uwe Boll movies. Not because they're TEH AWESOEM, not because I'm a glutton for punishment, but because even terrible stuff can prove to be interesting in its own (terrible) way. There are lessons to be learned, there. -
ur same shit is old too. too bad u and ASSIHAGUE cant win ur arguements. u two just make up shit in ur own mind and just RATTLE AWAY with the same shit. i hope u two dont kill urselves when Lost goes off. that would be a shame...cough...sarcasm...cough
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*chortle* You actually sally-ed forth lookin to go pickin a fight on a...*cough* on a fanboy board (sorry, Harry) ...Wow. Who needs a hug? Revok do. Ya know the only reason I'm typin back, Oli oli Crow ..mag? I'm tryin, hopin I can break ya of your need to hate Jews. Gays. Geriatrics. People of Colour..all things encompassed in your in handle and posts. Revok. He of the Schutzstaffel. Know. You are so wrong to feel as such.
Tip. Kid, never make an issue of your age (which is so obviously telling in your insecurity) ..you should have an eager and open mind. What tragedy you are so fradey and ..just a guess... unaccomplished ..less lettered.. that you lob that so underhandy.
Man, if you tweren't so inexperienced in life you wouldn't have raced right past rule #547 smashed into Case's corollary (homophobia) and gone splat on gerontophobia... well.
Boy, I get your handle now. Youse got some issues, girlfriend.
But. And. Well. whata ya gonna do. kids. And tanks and all that for pointing out my mis-type-ed spellings and grammars. Know one has ever done that in that the many many years hier. That's original.
Notable too, that you so seem to identify yourself with Otto. Not entirely unexpected. Considering your Nazi lovin name...but allow me to counter with the proper.
"How very interesting. Your a true vulgarian, aren't you?"
Maybe think about gettin in shape, signin up and servin somethin greater than you're self. Then come back in 6 or 7 years and try again to be too clever by half... *snort* hold on, *cough*..kid. Oh, goober, you made my gut hurt with this laugh. thanks. I needed it. (sorry, I'm clearing the tears from me eyes) -
I feel ya dog.. and dog is the point..you may not get this..but its the same reason folk continue to fill the Dog Pound.
That's a Cleveland thing ..as in why would anyone still be a fan of the Browns.
However, even fans of losing franchises... are still fans. They don't hate the team. Just the performance.
You seem to hate the team. -
This talkback, not so much. How is it possible to feel so much hate towards a TV show? And how on earth are unanswered questions synonymous with "lazy writing" (every TB hater's default argument. Everything they don't like = lazy scriptwriting. It's a meaningless phrase.)? And what does it matter whether everything was planned out from the beginning or not? What matters is surely how it all comes together in the end? I, for one, am extremely grateful that Lost is 1)full of ambiguity and unanswered questions (the answer is seldom more interesting than the question, just compare space odysseys 2001 and 2010) Not wasting valuable screen time with the characters stopping to discuss what's going on and whether or not this or that was a smart decision (which they did more than enough in the first seasons). It may not be "realistic", but there's a reason it's called fiction and not reality. We've never seen Kate take a crap on the island either, but I'm pretty sure she didn't hold it in for the 3months + she was there. Condensed storytelling = cut to the chase. I can get how some people have a hard time relating to the characters when they act like this, but then Lost is clearly not the show for you. Get over it, and move on.
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There was supposed to be a 2) at the beginning of the last paragraph. This website was antiquated when the Black Rock was still seaworthy.
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Ah, I get it now.
My mistake was not realising that this is an updated blend of Gilligans Island and Dumb and Dumber.
To be fair though I was put on the wrong tack by the fans and producers of the show trying to convince everyone that this is the cleverest most meaningful programme ever to have been created.
Having been put straight I can now sit back and laugh along with everyone else at the crazy shenanigans. -
That's a universally stupid thing to do.
Believe me, kid.
I'm goin to the Super Bowl party now. Ciao, beeetches. -
make one BIGASS DUMBFUK SAMMICH! keep passing that bong full of dipshit "complaints" around. seems u three "higher thinkers" are the only one's smoking it.
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Or is one of the 3 mentioned trolls Jay?
I'm going to a superbowl party too. Fuckin 6:30 start and we're going to a spot that has $30 all you can eat wings and pitchers of Bud & miller light.
And of course work @ 5AM. Great. I'm talking off Wednesday for my bday tho. Hooters, the NYC LOST meetup at the Irish Rogue and a full body massage from Lockesbrokenlegs mother.
Or maybe lostbottexs' mom. Possibly AssiHague....um, who else? Jaka, Other Brother Darryl, As long as they dont try and finger me during the happy ending it's cool. -
Or is HE, I meant. Sorry Jay, I KNOW you aint that douchebag. God he and lostboytexas were the worst. Any dickblood too.
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"You seem to hate the team."
Yeah, I do. Same thing for the Heroes team or Uwe Boll. They're hacks (and outspoken hacks at that).
But people still listen to (and believe in) the Lost hacks... I really, really hope that won't last past the series finale. I really, really hope the infernal duo's "mysteries are part of the magic!" / "it's the journey, not the destination" BS attempts at covering their asses won't fool too many people. -
Read the thread my friend .
My main complaint is the completely idiotic actions of the characters to drive the plot along and lo and behold half the Lost fans and even the writers seem to acknoledge that these are the actions of stupid people.
Still all will be relatively well in the end when we find out:
Whats the deal with the numbers - incidentally did anyone never think that keying in the same numbers at the same time period for ever might best have been done by automation rather than a human being?
What was the deal with boy of mystery Walt
What was the deal with the kidnapped folk and children - sadly when Jack met Cindy that time in the Others camp he forget to ask - the silly billy - chortle - cue studio audience laughter.
What were the dreadful things that happened that enticed Jack to be enticed back to the Island by the hugely trustworthy Ben Linus - oh and when they got back to the Island what exactly was their plan. -
FUCK HEROES. It was great at Comic-Con this year when they took a shot at the circus storyline at the LOST panel.
I asked D&C when I met them if they planned on attending the Heroes panel. God a good laugh out of them. Good people. -
"How is it possible to feel so much hate towards a TV show?"
Er... Don't worry, it's not like I'm not being consumed by my hatred for the show or anything like that! ^_^;
But when I hear that it's "the TV event of the year" (and it sure seems to be, as far as US TV is concerned), when I see people actually buying into the BS arguments of the writers (sure, let's promise a complex, layered story, a well-written mystery... and finally try and sell that "keeping things a mystery is part of the magic!"... of course, that means any idiot could write such a "magical" story, but hey), yeah, it makes me angry. Not "kill the showrunners with a pen in the neck" angry, but certainly "spend way too much time on the internet to try and explain how sad it is that the joke has gone for so long" angry...
"wasting valuable screen time"
Because Lost never wasted valuable screen time. I mean... Seriously??
I still think one of the reasons Lost made such a big comeback in the viewers' hearts at the end of season 3 isn't just that "hey, it was a flashforward, how intriguing!", but also that "hey, it wasn't another boring and redundant flashback!". Did you know Kate was a fugitive? Are you sure? Cause she really was. Let me show you. Again. Just in case we're not quite on the same page.
And the fucking B plots... Next week on FxxxING JUNGLE!: SAWYER vs. TREEFROG!!
Yeah, all in all, it's great that Jack and Sayid didn't "waste" a couple minutes to realize that they were about to end the season on an idiot plot. It's with tiny victories like that that you eventually get enough screen time for the stuff that _really_ matters, like the true story behind Jack's tattoos.
"It may not be "realistic""
For the nth time, only an idiot would complain about such a show not being "realistic". It's SF/fantasy. _Of course_ it's not going to be realistic. That's not what this is about at all. -
"it's not like I'm not being consumed by my hatred for the show"
*facepalm*
Well. You know what I really meant to say there, right? Right? ^^;;; -
And since with your childish name calling you've got me stoked, I challenge you to justify this :
The oceanic 6 get off the Island - an Island where they have been kidnapped and tortured by hostiles and then seen a new bunch of nutcases arrive and start a shoot out.
And the master plan - lie about it to protect those left behind in Shangri-La with the murderous OTHERS. Thats right, do nothing for 3 years until the leader of the Others says they have to come back because bad things have happened.
You're kidding me - we left our friends behind with a bunch of psycopathic rejects from Deliverance and bad things happened - who'd have thought. THREE FUCKING YEARS DOING NOTHING !!!!
Can you see where sane people might have a problem with that Jay - can you?
Then they decide to go back - with Airwolf or a bunch of Navy Seals ? Er no.
But they have a plan right - er no.
Sweet Jeezus where is Bob Denver when you need him ! -
"It was great at Comic-Con this year when they took a shot at the circus storyline at the LOST panel."
Yeaaah... 'Can't say I'm too fond of seeing the Lost guys (of all people) taking cheap shots at other shows (and seriously, Heroes? that's like bullying the retarded kid)... -
And the fact that this show allows us to use our imagination.
Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're dead wrong. (Lostboytexas)
However, you keep watchin'. Dont'cha?
yes, you do. (Or at least waste time by keeping this TB in the top 10, this getting it more hits..)
Thank you TB flavor of the week trolls, thank you. -
It was great because THAT show stays on the air while other greatness gets canceled. Firefly & Dollhouse to name a few, but jesus. Heroes sticks around like it's the shit.
At CC I asked Zack Quinto at a panel for his comic book line if he thought Heroes would be around if he wasnt on the the show.
He said sorry, I can only answer questions about the comic line.
Yeah, I was glad to have them take a shot. it's totally worn out it's welcome. I dont give a shit about the writers strike, they dropped the ball big time.
Even tho Herc bashes it, which is fine, it just felt like Heroes was getting praise everywhere for no good reason. (TV, internet, etc) -
"do nothing for 3 years"
Hey, they did a lot of stuff! There was the Abaddon guy, asking real tough questions like "are they still alive"! So intriguing, even if it doesn't really make any kind of sense in retrospect... And remember when Sun was plotting with Widmore, and... Er... But there was also Sayid becoming a hitman so... er... so he could feel guilty about it afterward, I guess?
(Ben couldn't kill Widmore because of the "rules" (still a mystery, but it's OK: it's all part of the M*A*G*I*C), but what about Sayid? what was the point of only killing the underlings? or do the magical rules apply to Sayid as well? or is it that Widmore couldn't get killed because you can't get die when you're off the island, unless your name is Locke, but theAAAAARGGH bracket, I summon thee!) -
You know whats present in every film or TV show I can think of - no matter how outrageous the premise - character motivation. Its the one thing you hear actors and directors go about all the time.
And yet the Lost writers for some inexplicable reason have got themselves a free pass on this one. We don't have to have motivations and characters can do anything the writers think up because they don't have to fill this vital gap - its all part of the mystery and the journey.
Well I call shenanigans. And therefore its not a lack of imagination that forms the biggest part of my problem with Lost -its the sheer lack of any logical or illogical motivation for the characters to do the insane things they do.
As for trolling well you can kill me off instantly by explaining the lie about the Island, return to the Island question I raised above. -
those "questions" u brought up have been answered. man, those "childish" names i threw out there are not "childish" if they're actually true. u made my day im still laughing....
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"it's totally worn out it's welcome. I dont give a shit about the writers strike, they dropped the ball big time."
I'd say it's been that way since the second half of season 1... It's like Fuller really was the only writer worth a damn in their staff.
"Even tho Herc bashes it, which is fine, it just felt like Heroes was getting praise everywhere for no good reason."
Not for a while though, right? I think the verdict has been in for quite some time, now... 'Can't see the show getting another season, really. -
Um, let's think about this.
Whidmore is very powerful. If the O-6 were to talk about the Island, wouldnt he find a way to get them to talk about it?
Of course they had to LIE! Who the fuck would believe the real story?
And wasnt it clear Sayid was working for Ben to kill Whidmores people? To keep them away from the O-6?
And now that you mention it, didnt Michael die on the Freighter? See? He wasnt on the Island now was he? Gotcha there, sizzle-chest. -
Sadly I do watch it DVR'ed. I'm interested in the Samuel (Magneto) storyline. He's the only thing keeping me tuning in.
Fuck Parkman, fuck Sylar, Fuck Claire, Fuck Peter. All asses. Hiro too and fuckin Mohammed. -
gotta love'em.....poor things they just want attention.
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Do me a favour and answer them again then will you or point out where they are .
That way I know that you are not just a lying idiot who knows he is on week ground.
Its all just name calling from you folk isn't it and nothing substantive to defend this programme from some really valid criticisms.
Olivier, please don't get me started on why Sayid would kill for Ben....please don't. -
As in torture them to spill info about the Island and shit like that. Distracted by the celtics game
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Trolls. Wipe them out....ALL of them.
Thats the only good dialogue in the Phantom menace btw. -
Don't buy the Whidmore piece - he is already looking for the Island - sitting around until he does is stupid - and your folk are still stuck on the Island with the Others whilst all this is going on.
Ah yes , Sayid is killing people to protect the O6- BECAUSE BEN, BEN OF THE OTHERS!!! - persuaded him to.
Now call me crazy but I would have had a go at convincing people about the Island by having them DNA test Claires baby. If they still disbelieved me I would tell them to use their imagination. -
in the seasons dumbass. rizz gave some of them in his post. if u dont keep up with the series dont ask stupid questions. simple really...
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Sayid killed for Ben because
1.) Ben told him Whidmores people killed Nadia.
2.) Sayid is a natural born killer you ass. He gave into it.
3.) Ben told him he would also be getting revenge by attacking Whidmores people AND keeping people on the Island SAFE.
Your turn troll. I'm getting you started. Not Oliver. -
"the Lost writers for some inexplicable reason have got themselves a free pass on this one."
I think that's because of two factors:
1) Lots of viewers aren't all that familiar with SF/fantasy. When something happens that doesn't appear to make sense and they question it, the writers can go "yeah, well, we also have a flying man on our show... does it make sense for a man to be able to fly?" (I love you, Heroes guys!), and the viewer would often just go "oh... good point, I guess..." We've seen this in this very talkback: the confusion between realism and coherence. If crazy shit like a smoke monster is allowed, _anything_ is allowed, right?
2) Lots of viewers are easily impressed and forgetful. If you manage to act convincingly enough when you state that a particular plot thread makes sense (some dramatic music may help), it doesn't really matter if an episode from three months ago completely contradicts that. -
that sums it ALL up right there. just because the ANSWERS u get are not the one's ur brain cant process...dont get pissed at it. just quit watching the show. man o' .man really/
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When Ben told these things to Sayid...did he like say "Cross My Heart and Hope to Die" so that this time Sayid knew he was telling the truth.
Because the problem is you see that Ben was now firmly established as a lying manipulative twat, so I am a bit comtwat so I am a bit confused why somebody as clever as Sayid would believe him ? -
good assesment of urself.
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In all politeness you can leave this conversation until you come up with some of the answers you said are out there.
Otherwise you start to look like somebody whose only function is to be a name calling douche. -
He had a timestampped traffic photo.
Plus, wtf did Sayid have to live for now anyway? Why not kill? He's got nothing else in his life and Ben took advantage of that.
Are you really that stupid? -
they have been answered dumass. i mean seriously? if U cant keep up maybe U need to rewatch the series.and then come back with the adults and DISCUSS the CURRENT episode mmmkay? its past ur bedtime little troll.
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"wtf did Sayid have to live for now anyway? Why not kill?"
... Seriously?
(while we're on the subject, why the fuck did they kill Sayid's wife anyway? I say the really culprits are the writers, and the only true motive "more drama!") -
I can just see Jay downing the Hersheys to make himself look like Hurley whilst wanking over a photo of Kate. I won't use the actors names because we all know , don't we Jay that Hurley and Kate are real people !!!
Anyway you can stop with the Hersheys now big fella as I think thats close enough. Althopugh I don't think Hurley has those terribel spots.
That wrist also looks like it needs strapping up or you should at least change hands. -
See what I mean about motivation
You ara claiming that one characters actions were motivated by him believing a known liar - you buying into that doesn't make me the stupid one. -
i guess AssiHague didnt watch the season 5 finale... wow idiot proportions of the 2Legged variety. typical trolling behavior guys. and i down beer 2LeggedTwat. guess im supposed to get mad and tell u how manly i am now right? Loser lol...
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Sayid is a NATURAL BORN KILLER.
Nadia is dead. Sayid was manipulated by Ben. he gave in. He also thought he was helping the rest of the people on the Island.
He had nothing to live for. Nadia's DEAD, Sayid thinks Whidmores responsible. What dont you people get? Sayid basically said Fuck it. -
Sayid wasnt in his right mind. The love of his life was MURDERED. I bet you still want to know what the smoke monster is!
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"Sayid is a NATURAL BORN KILLER."
My ass he was. That's just something the writers came up with to try and make the whole thing a tiny bit more palatable when Sayid decided to become a hitman for Ben of all people.
And of course, soon after, the "natural born killer" feels oh so very shitty about his bad deeds... So coherent all in all that the writers should just have gone ahead and make him a werewolf. -
"i guess AssiHague didnt watch the season 5 finale..."
I did. It didn't explain why Sayi'd wife was murdered at all.
Or is your point that they really wanted to kill _Sayid_ and Jacob saved him (but not his wife, because he might be a great supernatural guy, but Jacob still loves drama)? Because er... that would just change the question into "why the fuck did they want to kill Sayid anyway?", you know... -
I just want to thank you for putting me straight on this.
I don't know what I was thinking but now I understand thanks to you and Jay.
You've explained everything in an erudite and friendly fashion and its been a road to Damascus experience for me.
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Now I am one of the gang. Is it true you can get "Lost" engraved butt plugs?
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AssiHague- at least ur watching i give u props on that. But, the point is u 2 guys are NEVER going to be happy with ANY FREAKING ANSWER they give u. it's obvious!! so why keep bitching?
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the real question 2Legged is.... what about ur other plugs? won't they get jealous??
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Yes they will get jealous but , if you can take it up the ass from the Lost writers week in and week out, then this is the least I should suffer for my new found devotion to this excellent show.
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I think you really solidly explained the "lie about the Island" scenario before.
So I would be interested in your thoughts on the "Return to the Island" scenario and what our intrepid O-6's plan of action was. -
”... of course, that means any idiot could write such a "magical" story, but hey”That, of course, is just not true. There’s a difference between open ended stories (like 2001, Lynch etc) and pure drivel (Heroes…). And no matter how the main mysteries pan out in the end, there are so many examples of brilliant plotting and writing on this show, on an episode to episode level, that to me, the creators have long since redeemed themselves. ***
"Because Lost never wasted valuable screen time. I mean... Seriously??" Sure they did. But there are only 16(?) hours of Lost left, and I'd rather have them use the remaining hours propelling the plot to its natural conclusion rather than put in scene after scene with characters contemplating the absurdness of their predicament. The three first seasons where a lot more character driven, but there is only so much backstory and character arcs you can have (even with such a large ensemble) before it gets repetitive and contrived (like you said, another boring and redundant flashback). That was why a lot of season 3 felt so unsatisfying. And when the show evolved to be more plot driven in the last half of season 3, it did so to some degree on the expense of "character scenes" where their motivations etc are fleshed out. I get that you don't like it, but I'm sure it's a conscious decision from the creators, and not a display of ineptitude or laziness. It's just their way of telling this story, and I think they do it because they realize that in a show where so many outlandish things are happening, having the characters stop and contemplate and rationalize their actions all the time would be tedious and repetitive ad nauseam. ***“For the nth time, only an idiot would complain about such a show not being "realistic". It's SF/fantasy. _Of course_ it's not going to be realistic. That's not what this is about at all.” Sorry, unfortunate choice of words on my side here. What I meant is that it is absurd and counter productive to expect fictional characters to behave like real people. They don't. They don't have to behave rationally, they don't have to behave logically, they don't even have to behave consistently. The only thing they have to is behave believeably in the context of the given situation within the fictional universe. And I understand that you feel that they don't do this (and I concede that they’ve sometimes veered off, but their hit percentage is still way higher than a lot of other shows), but that's still just your personal opinion, and not an undeniable truth. P.S. Don’t agree with you on the idiot plot of last season’s finale. But I’m sure that’s been discussed a lot here already... Have a nice day! -
poor baby
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"There’s a difference between open ended stories (like 2001, Lynch etc) and pure drivel (Heroes…)."
You make it sound like Lost would be part of the former, but it sure looks like it will be waaaay beyond merely "open-ended"...
(and Lynch's universe is an entirely different animal, really... Lost doesn't take place in a fevered dream)
"no matter how the main mysteries pan out in the end, there are so many examples of brilliant plotting and writing on this show, on an episode to episode level"
Er... Like what, for example? Because I really, _really_ disagree, sorry. ^_^;
One of the very few examples of decently smart ideas I can think of right now would be how they thought of bringing post-puberty Walt back to the show, courtesy of the 3-year long ellipse. But how did that pan out? The kid just showed up. Said hi to Locke. And that was it for Walt on the show. Remember when he had powers, made ghostly apparitions and all that jazz? Yeah. Well.
"I'd rather have them use the remaining hours propelling the plot to its natural conclusion rather than put in scene after scene with characters contemplating the absurdness of their predicament."
Not what I'd like to see either, really... But y'know, they could be trying to make sense of the whole thing. Finally. Ask some good questions, get some real answers. Stuff like that. Not exactly a waste of screen time, in my opinion. But the writers don't have the answers, sooo...
"I understand that you feel that they don't do this (and I concede that they’ve sometimes veered off, but their hit percentage is still way higher than a lot of other shows)"
Well, it's still terribly low for me... ^^;
"Have a nice day!"
You too. I appreciate how you tried to discuss instead of simply treating me like a troll and calling it a day.
Same thing for the (unfortunately few) other good interlocutors I've had in this talkback, by the by... even if I disagree with y'all! ^_^ -
I can't believe a hand full of trolls calling each other names actually managed to drive all of the lost fans out of the tb. Especially when season six just started and a third of the entire talk back was the same comments about the end of season two repeated over and over again. Oh well, there's precious little enough enjoyment and pleasure in the world, if a half dozen playground bullies can get together and have a good time, I guess that makes spoiling it for everyone else worth it. Good for you, boys.
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...that Rose was holding on the plane? It was an advertisement on the back with a UFO and a headline that said, "The truth is out there."
http://tinyurl.com/yafwwc3
Coincidence? Can't wait for Tuesday!!! -
...that Rose was holding on the plane? It was an advertisement on the back with a UFO and a headline that said, "The truth is out there."
http://tinyurl.com/yafwwc3
Coincidence? Can't wait for Tuesday!!! -
Who is THE WHO? Those old men who can't sing really need to retire. Their 15 minutes expired years ago. Worst. Superbowl. Halftime. Ever!
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im sure u can manage that. dont u have some short story to write? or a poem??
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just because u dont have the-AHEM- balls to defend Lost against trolls such as AssiHague,Dick Fixx, and 2LeggedTwat.dont hate on people THAT DO! ok???...thought so...
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I am talking to Lost haters because the Lost fans are not posting anything. Why don’t you post something and we’ll discuss it.
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These folk are so fucking stupid they are now arguing amongst themselves.
I can understand now why Lost would appeal to the likes of Jay and Tough Guy...its because like the characters they lurv...they are assholes too. -
oh yea.. my bad..guess u "fans" dont watch things like that...
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ur not a fan...never WAS and never WILL BE...im sure u and AssiHague will be happy together...
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makes a man's day BETTER in my humble opinion. SNNNIIFFFF....ah....good 'ol fresh non-troll air....plus bitchass Vikki is hopefully gone too... oh wait.. cant run off vagina for the trolls... come back Vikki! Please!
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What part of "good for you" sounded like I was hating on anyone? And thanx for asking around how the writing's coming along, actually I'm working on another crappy novel that no one will ever read, just like the first three.
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T-Bolt asked for a clarification on my use of the term Kirbyesque. I was referring mainly to Kamandi and maybe SOME of his Pacific Comics work LIKE Silver Star and Captain Victory - the books where the LETTERER seemed to put WORDS in allcaps seemingly AT random - and comparing it to the typing style of certain folks posting here.
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me and Rizz err... sorry.. Rizz and I were defending the tb m'lady. u seemed to group us with such heathens. MY bad if i took ur comments the wrong way.
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Were you really the 2517th person to register the talkback name Jay or are you lying about that? Or is the number supposed to cleverly resemble a word if you look at it upside down? I don't get it?
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SORRY IF I USE CAPS BEEEOTTCCHH LOL. i like comics too from way back in the ood days of the 70's....err wait... I DIDNT USE ALL CAPS!!! sorry VIKKI
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contrary to what u think...
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"You make it sound like Lost would be part of the former, but it sure looks like it will be waaaay beyond merely "open-ended"..."That of course remains to be seen, but having just rewatched the 5 first seasons, I find it remarkable how extremely consistent and coherent this show has been (maybe it doesn't appear that way if you watch it one week at a time over five years, I get that), compared to for instance Heroes, which wound up contradicting itself from one episode to another. ***
"Er... Like what, for example? Because I really, _really_ disagree, sorry. ^_^;" I'm not going to make a list of all the brilliantly written episodes which can easily stand alone, because if you disagree that Lost has ever made brilliantly written episodes, then I feel that there really isn't that much more to discuss. I thought you were a former fan that now was disappointed with the direction the show has taken, but you never ever liked it? You think even an episode like Walkabout was poorly written? -
read a few lines on a glorified bulletin board and your entire world view is shattered!
I'm reminded of a post from a while back - I think it was an Avatar tb -
"2001 has great effects, but that's it." "What happened to the Kubrick who directed Spartacus?" The plot makes no sense!" "What the fuck was going on for the last 20 minutes of the movie?" "Where's the incisive wit of Dr. Strangelove?" "Calling the characters in this movie stiff cardboard would be an insult to stiff cardboard." "The computer had more personality thasn any of the humans!" "HAL, at least,is 2-dimensional, which is one dimension more than anyone else manages." "Ape make-up pretty shoddy next to the work in Planet of the Apes." "Long and boring when it's not hallucinogenic gibberish." "I waited 4 years and this is what Kubrick gives me?" "Kubrick should have had another writer like Robert Bolt or Rod Serling help flesh out the characters." "Bizarre ending doesn't have impact of the brilliant twist in Apes." "This cost a staggering 10 and a half million dollars! Gonna take a lot of hippies to make that back." "Dialogue totally uninspired and unmememorable." "Guess after blowing all his money on SFX, he didn't have any left over for a proper score, and had to use public domain classical stuff." "A great movie has a tight plot, well-defined characters, crisp dialogue, and says something about the human heart in conflict with itself. Dr. Strangelove or The Killing had these things. 2001 does not." "I think Kubrick must have had his brain destroyed by the LSD he's been taking for the past few years." "I feel bad for Clarke. His stuff makes sense; Kubrick totally fucked him over." "2001=TOTAL FAIL." "At least Barbarella has a nearly-nude Jane Fonda to look at." "Fantastic Voyage is a thousand times better than this crap. It has a tense, exciting plot, and the special effects are better, too." "Best sf movie of the year? The Power, no question. George Pal is a science fiction master of the old school; none of this demented druggy crap for him that's so popular with the 'hippies' today." "FACT:No one actually enjoys 2001 who's not watching it stoned out of their mind." "Too serious. Would a little comic relief have hurt?" "A waste of Keir Dullea, who was so good in David and Lisa; but when your character is given nothing to act, what you can you do?" "Totally derivative of Jordan Belson's work, but people who've never seen his stuff will think this is original." "I mean, WTF? WTF?" "There goes a couple of bucks I'll never see again." "This will never se a profit." "Spartacus is my very favorite movie. I thought Kubrick was a god; but he's just raped my childhood." -
let's try that again...
"2001 has great effects, but that's it." "What happened to the Kubrick who directed Spatacus?" The plot makes no sense!" "What the fuck was going on for the last 20 minutes of the movie?" "Where's the incisive wit of Dr. Strangelove?" "Calling the characters in this movie stiff cardboard would be an insult to stiff cardboard." "The computer had more personality thasn any of the humans!" "HAL, at least,is 2-dimensional, which is one dimension more than anyone else manages." "Ape make-up pretty shoddy next to the work in Planet of the Apes." "Long and boring when it's not hallucinogenic gibberish." "I waited 4 years and this is what Kubrick gives me?" "Kubrick should have had another writer like Robert Bolt or Rod Serling help flesh out the characters." "Bizarre ending doesn't have impact of the brilliant twist in Apes." "This cost a staggering 10 and a half million dollars! Gonna take a lot of hippies to make that back." "Dialogue totally uninspired and unmememorable." "Guess after blowing all his money on SFX, he didn't have any left over for a proper score, and had to use public domain classical stuff." "A great movie has a tight plot, well-defined characters, crisp dialogue, and says something about the human heart in conflict with itself. Dr. Strangelove or The Killing had these things. 2001 does not." "I think Kubrick must have had his brain destroyed by the LSD he's been taking for the past few years." "I feel bad for Clarke. His stuff makes sense; Kubrick totally fucked him over." "2001=TOTAL FAIL." "At least Barbarella has a nearly-nude Jane Fonda to look at." "Fantastic Voyage is a thousand times better than this crap. It has a tense, exciting plot, and the special effects are better, too." "Best sf movie of the year? The Power, no question. George Pal is a science fiction master of the old school; none of this demented druggy crap for him that's so popular with the 'hippies' today." "FACT:No one actually enjoys 2001 who's not watching it stoned out of their mind." "Too serious. Would a little comic relief have hurt?" "A waste of Keir Dullea, who was so good in David and Lisa; but when your character is given nothing to act, what you can you do?" "Totally derivative of Jordan Belson's work, but people who've never seen his stuff will think this is original." "I mean, WTF? WTF?" "There goes a couple of bucks I'll never see again." "This will never se a profit." "Spartacus is my very favorite movie. I thought Kubrick was a god; but he's just raped my childhood."
(thank you kisskissbangbang) -
"They presented a mystery like that black slab thingy just for the sake of it, without having any idea where to go with it. They're just making it up as they go along, and then they throw in incoherent stuff like that giant fetus in the end just to seem profound. Anyone can write crap like that. And why the fuck doesn't David Bowman ask his older self any questions when he's in that weird hotel room? It's completely implausible behaviour. That's just lazy, lazy storytelling."
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turketron_2 you have solved the show (btw I’m not being sarcastic like some dicks on these talkbacks!). Mib/smokey is a Genie! For all intense and purposes! He had to do Jacobs bidding , as long as Jacob was alive that is! Smokey had to follow rules, my guess these rules are/were 1: you cannot kill me (Jacob) “I know you want to you smokey boy, but you cant ha ha” 2: You will make me immortal (he really went up like old paper when he fell on the fire, suggesting he was very old and dried up) 3: You must do as I ask! “See that ship on the horizon smokey?” “Sure Jacob I see it” “bring it to me like a good slave” “gerrrr, okay Jacob your wish is my command (bastard)”. 4: You must cater to my follower’s demands and do as they ask! Especially the leader! (smokey protests) “What! That little bastard Ben? Damn it Jacob your followers are such Idiots, they always fight and kill each other in the end” (Jacob)“now, now smokey you know the rules” (Smokey)”yessssssssssss, master” (Jacob)”hummm sounds like steam escaping”.
Soooo. Jacob is conducting some social experiment on a bunch of unsuspecting castaways(both literally and figuratively) for what reason we do not know, yet.
He in using some poor genie to run his little game. The Genie is some kind of Future A.I. (think GORT following I, Robot laws) that taps into the energy/power contained in the island (think Forbidden Planet) to perform said tasks. The smoke acts as a sort of limb the island (which I am CONVINCED is a nanobot cloud I donk give a fuck what the writer say). I think Smokey/MIB just like a genie is ether free now and out for revenge (I wouldn’t blame him, he just wants to go home) OR he still is trapped on the island (or IS the island) and needs a new master who will make the right wish/choice of his(or her) own free will and set the MIB free. Despite in doing so sacrificing the Islands ultimate power for himself (or herself but this will be Jack Shepard’s decision in the end, I mean come on, its obvious!) Jack will be given the chance to weld the power him self, he has been written by the writers as a sort of control freak so far and it would be in his nature to keep the island for himself BUT even though he will lose everything and everyone he will find his faith make the right choice and set the Island free in the end. He has another version of himself in another world living a happy life anyway (hopefully).
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"having just rewatched the 5 first seasons, I find it remarkable how extremely consistent and coherent this show has been (maybe it doesn't appear that way if you watch it one week at a time over five years, I get that)"
And I, on the contrary, think it's awfully incoherent when you take the time to think about it. I know you just said that you rewatched the whole thing, but that's what baffles me: if anything, I'd think rewatching the whole thing should have helped you see how the whole thing has more holes than Swiss cheese. I'd think it would make it all the more apparent how the writers kept changing their minds again and again regarding a whole bunch of plot threads. I'd think it would make it all the more apparent how the writers keep coming up with downright surreal dialogues just to postpone the answers again and again. It is all painfully obvious to me, anyway...
"compared to for instance Heroes, which wound up contradicting itself from one episode to another."
Like I said earlier, I'd say Heroes is actually only marginally worse than Lost in this area. It's just that it's slightly less obvious with Lost because the mysteries are _far_ more drawn out (-> you need to pay a lot more attention to see the inconsistencies), and because you're dealing with one huge story that isn't quite over yet (so the "loyal fans" will keep faith that the true answers simply have yet to come) whereas the Heroes writers have already showed several times over and beyond the shadow of a doubt that they were unable to come up with satisfying and tidy conclusions to their stand-alone arcs/volumes.
"if you disagree that Lost has ever made brilliantly written episodes, then I feel that there really isn't that much more to discuss."
Sorry.
"You think even an episode like Walkabout was poorly written?"
It definitely was one of the better episodes, yes, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "brilliant"... For one thing, it seems to me that most of the praise the episode is getting is due to its twist ending (which was decent and intriguing (like most of the season 1 "supernatural leads"), but I personally had seen it coming pretty early on, considering how "odd" most of the flashback sequences were). And in retrospect (/in the grand scheme of things), Locke's miraculous recovery is something that I think was poorly handled in the series... "Oh noes, the island suddenly decides to take Locke's legs back because... er... because we need some drama? Ah, well, he's fine again, now. Whatever supernatural force is in command, I'm _sure_ we'll have an explanation about this strange and brief lapse, and that it will be completely satisfying... And now, Locke has this great crisis of faith despite the fact he's standing on his feet... *sigh*" -
I'll try and explain why I'm not so impressed with some of the obvious fan favorites, like Walkabout or Flashes Before Your Eyes... I think we'll agree they're considered some of the best episodes out there, yes?
My problem with them is that they're all about their own particular twist or concept, twists or concepts that could make up for good, say, Twilight Zone episodes, but were an ill fit for the series as a whole.
The thing about Twilight Zone episodes is that they're all about their own concept or twist endings. In Time Enough at Last, for example, why exactly the world ended never was an issue: it was all about the personal predicament of the protagonist, and the irony of his final fate. And it works just fine that way. But if you were to try and "transplant" such an episode in a serial, to have it fit in an overarching continuity, the whys and the hows _would_ matter.
I already talked about how Locke's miracle was (in my opinion, anyway) poorly handled in the rest of the series, so... Desmond reliving his own flashback is an example of something that could make up for a good Twilight Zone episode, because it's a concept that's intriguing on a human level. But as part of a years-long series, the episode sticks out like a sore thumb. So that's what the implosion (?) of a Dharma station does? Takes your clothes away and makes you relive you own past? Well, when your name is Desmond, anyway? And what was up with the Hawking character? You can't _not_ explain that one in the long run. And how are things looking so far in that respect? How would you explain that a character who "merely" turned out to be a former island resident and Faraday's mother found herself in Desmond's odd flashback talking like the Matrix's Oracle (one of the things that irked me the most: it's just painfully obvious that's who she was written as)? Not exactly an easy task, and I doubt the writers will bother to revisit and explain that one (especially considering the direction season 6 seems to be taking)... And of course, there's the whole BS thing about History correcting itself, which led to the "Charlie will have to die in one way or another" plot thread. I say BS because it supposes "History" is a sentient entity with a bias toward the main protagonists of the show (or at least toward the human species). Why is Charlie's (or that poor guy in the Desmond flashback's) death considered something "important" that just _has_ to happen, when the exact circumstances of that death aren't? Shouldn't all things be considered equal, in History's eyes? That's something you could just overlook in a Twilight Zone episode that just wants to go for an ironic ending. But in a years-long series? When it becomes the whole "reason" behind a character's death?
There would also be the whole "push the button" thread... Same thing here, the idea could make for an intriguing Twilight Zone episode: "if it were up to you, would you dare _not_ pushing the button?" Why that button is there and how it works wouldn't matter: it would all be about that one central question of faith. But in Lost, we end up with this odd computer. What's up with it? Why do you need to enter specific numbers? How fucking random is that? And that countdown clock with the hieroglyphs? So some Dharma employee put them there? Why? And don't they kinda/sorta imply that Dharma had a pretty good idea as to what the whole thing was about? Didn't we eventually see they were just clueless and slightly moronic hippies? What gives? Will we ever come back to those questions? Again, with the series' current locomotives being the fake Locke and the alternate reality stuff, things don't look too good. Would there be a way to explain all that in a satisfying manner anyway? I'm not so sure, really...
Hopefully, you see what I'm getting at...
(sorry if my posts aren't all that clear and well-structured... I'm struggling, here, especially considering English really isn't my first language) -
Your providing the vintage and then letting him turn his nose up at your selection. If Msr. Olivier is really the Sci Fi sommelier he poses to be ..make him suggest the bottle.
Make him say what episode of LOST is good? If he says none..then you know he is a phony who is just havin a laugh.
Make him suggest what is well and proper Sci Fi.. TV.. what have ya. Five colonial Algerian Francs says he won't commit to declaring. Cause then he'll be exposed as having a well...a somewhat less than refined palette than he pretends to have.
Whatever. It'd be derivative of some such obscure Nippon Anime anyway. -
remember they kinda set up Aaron as the miracle baby - and Clare is set to return this final season...
I totally dig that nanobot theory from way-back, above - esp. the part about Jacob making sure he touched certain people when he was off island - like Sayid...
Zombie Sayid?
this IS the Zombie Season, after all
is there some nanite reanimating mojo working on Sayid's corpse, now that whatever Jacob deposited with his magic hands has interacted with the catalytic power of the Waters of Life?
did he have to die first, for it to begin the process?
what special role does Jacob have in mind for our Natural Born Killer anyway - surely Sayid's special skillset is more useful in proving the Dark Entity's original point?
they fight, they destroy, they corrupt...
speaking of which, I keep thinking about the Statue of Taweret - how it was holding those ankhs - how Jacob hid his message inside an ankh, inside something else - how Jacob was apparently living inside the foot with the four toes...
who built that statue? Jacob? his followers? his "Genie"?
the Smoke Monster- doesn't like heights, right? and it can't deal with water (I'm trapped on an island and want to go home!) - if that statue was hollow all through... was it destroyed on purpose?
if THE WHOLE ISLAND was to, say, sink to the bottom of the ocean... -
"Make him suggest what is well and proper Sci Fi.. TV.. what have ya."
I already answered that one early on in the talkback, actually. But it's true that there isn't much quality SF on US television (or in theaters, for that matter)... A damn shame...
"It'd be derivative of some such obscure Nippon Anime anyway."
Well... yeah, they have some pretty good stuff, sorry...
But "obscure"? It's all out there, complete with handy English subtitles. You obviously have an internet connection, so that means you're just a couple of clicks away from those "obscure" titles. Why not give it a try? -
You truly are a dumb ass. Going to keep lobbing flaming arrows into the air, hoping to hit a red shirt. You don't know a fraction of what you would like people to think you know.
That's mainly evident if your resorting to the same tactics that you decry in others. See above, re: lack of self-awareness.You can't even follow your own daddy's precious rules. What's wrong? Didn't he explain them to you? Or were you just trying to keep from gagging when he was feeding it...er..them to you? You and your toughboy alter-ego bodyguard Rizzo can go to hell in the same basket. -
Sheesh, give it up.
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Maybe it's because I didn't get enough sleep last night, but I began to wonder if the flash sideways that we are seeing where the plane lands is actually how it happened the first time, when Jacob didn't go to touch the Losties. He somehow goes back in time and touches the Losties and that's what brings them to the island for the endgame. It might also explain how the Black Rock ends up in the middle of the island if the island was previously sunk. Don't ask me how. Just working on some theories.
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Now bear with me. What if, when Desmond failed to push the button, the island didn’t just magnetically pull the 815 aeroplane towards the island causing it to crash? Instead the island pulled the main characters towards the island! They just happened to be on a plane at the time!So the main characters on the flight were being pulled towards the island and the plane and the other poor saps that died in impact didn’t matter the same way the lucky extras that survived the impact didn’t matter. So when Desmond says, “I think I crashed your plane” he may have been wrong or only half correct! The characters Jacob ‘touched’ may have had some special energy imprinted on them that the island wanted and pulled them back.
basically, if they were not on the flight the plane wouldn’t have crashed on the island!
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Your English is fine. It’s not my first language either, btw.
”if anything, I'd think rewatching the whole thing should have helped you see how the whole thing has more holes than Swiss cheese.”
I don’t fault you for assuming that, but quite the opposite thing happened. Honestly. :) *** ”Like I said earlier, I'd say Heroes is actually only marginally worse than Lost in this area.” Well, that comes a lot down to how you watch the show (And to be fair, Lost has answered a lot of questions in a satisfying way). After all, one can find inconsistencies in virtually anything. So it’s more about giving a show the benefit of the doubt. And for me, It’s extremely easy to give Lost that benefit when they seem to go out on a limb, not only beacuse of what I consider a pretty good track record, but also because the show is so handsomely written, acted, directed and produced, as opposed to Heroes (except for the CGI shots. Let’s not get into that). ***I think I see where you’re getting at with your TZ comparison (even though I haven’t seen much of that show), but I just simply disagree. The stand alone great episodes aren’t made worse if the overarching mythology turns out to be dissapointing (and of course, as I’ve already stated, I think the show is pretty coherent both on a micro and macro level). A satisfying conclusion to this show is to me just a bonus, not integral to my assesement of the episodes that I already find brilliant. I have a feeling you’re disagreeing, though. -
http://tinyurl.com/yj59xq6
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It was an advertisement on the back with a UFO and a headline that said, "The truth is out there."
http://tinyurl.com/yafwwc3
The truth is out there? With a UFO?
Coincidence?
Can't wait for Tuesday!!!
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Is an advertisement for Morely cigarettes. That's the brand the Cigarette Smoking Man smoked on X-Files.
I'm guessing this is just a case of the producers winking at their fans. -
should read "Morley". Edit buttons are for the weak.
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Feb 08, 2010 12:45:41 PM CST
and just think... these same fucking idiots are goint to be....
by jay2517
in tuesdays talkback too. SIGH....ah oh yea... the D-BAG himself lostBOYtexass makes his idiot reapperance REJOICE!!!
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"I don’t fault you for assuming that, but quite the opposite thing happened. Honestly. :)"
I believe you, don't worry. But I, too, am being honest when I'm saying that I've had a _radically_ different experience over the course of the series. ^_^;
"to be fair, Lost has answered a lot of questions in a satisfying way"
I wouldn't say that, really...
"for me, It’s extremely easy to give Lost that benefit when they seem to go out on a limb, not only beacuse of what I consider a pretty good track record"
And once again, I find myself in complete disagreement: I honestly think their track record is plain terrible. ^__^;;
Could you cite some examples of what you felt were well-handled plot threads? Some mysteries solved in what you deem a satisfying manner?
"but also because the show is so handsomely written, acted, directed and produced"
I think it's merely okay in those areas, sorry. ^^;
In fact, I often find the direction to be quite cliché-ridden. Last week, there was the slow-motion sequence when the protagonists were getting off the plane (we already had a very similar sequence in that one flashback where they were getting _on_ it, if I remember well). And how many times did we get the "ominous but horribly vague line of dialogue that cuts right to the commercials" (and when we're back, nobody's asking any follow-up question to try and clarify the vagueness... 'looks like they just got distracted by a shiny object and are now off doing something else). And all that with the Giacchino music well on cue, naturally. It's all so... old hat.
Off the top of my head, the only sequences that I'd consider memorable would be in the season openers. There are some amusing red herrings, there. Oh, and there was the lampshading of the "traditional episode-ending montage", when Hugo's batteries died. Apart from that...
"as opposed to Heroes"
Heroes is worse on that front. Agreed.
"(except for the CGI shots. Let’s not get into that)."
That never bothered me _all that much_, personally... I guess I'm just used to relatively cheap CGI in TV series, so I find it relatively easy to forgive the showrunners and look the other way...
But yeah, there were some pretty good CGI shots in Heroes (not so much recently, but...). I often thought to myself "damn, if only those CGI wizards could use their powers for a good cause instead!" What a waste.
"The stand alone great episodes aren’t made worse if the overarching mythology turns out to be dissapointing"
But they're _not_ stand alone episodes. They're all part of the overarching story, so they need to make sense in that context. And that's generally where the show falls apart. There are some nice (not "brilliant" nor exactly groundbreaking, in my opinion, but "nice") SF ideas and concepts here and there, yes, but they fall apart when you look at the big picture. And Lost is supposed to be one big story, not an anthology of stand-alone short stories. It _should_ all fit together. But it doesn't. -
So if it was just the failure to press the button that pulled Jack and everyone to the island (and resulted in the place crashing), what do you think caused the Ajira flight to crash? Maybe it was the electro magnetism of the incident that propelled everyone back to 2007 from 1977?
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"Could you cite some examples of what you felt were well-handled plot threads? Some mysteries solved in what you deem a satisfying manner?" Ok, I'll indulge you, even though it'll probably just backfire on me. Minor mysteries: The tailies being the source of the mysterious radio message when Boone is in Yemi's plane The polar bears The cable on the beach The Dharma initative orientation films The polar bear in the desertThe identity of Roger WorkmanJack’s tattoos... :PMost of the major mysteries of course still remain unanswered, but I was very happy with how they explained the fake 815 plane, which was a huge wtf for me at the time. Also, I remember initially being really annoyed with Faraday's crazy behaviour in the beginning of season 4, and found it odd that he seemed to get more normal as the season progressed. I really loved the way that came together in the end of season 5, and it made me appreciate his performance that much more on a second viewing. I suppose we’ll never see eye to eye on this, but I respect your opinion, and can easily see that this show is not to everyone’s taste. But too me, the questions they pose are much more interesting than the answers, and the scenarios that unfold are much more interesting than the reason for them unfolding. I don’t care why Desmond is unstuck in time, anymore than I cared why Billy Pilgrim was. I just care that they *were* unstuck, and what this did to them.
Also, there are a lot of "mysteries" I'm completely happy if they never explain, because they are just surreal moments adding to the atmosphere of the show, like the Hurley bird, the glass eye, the seemingly arbitrary editing of the dharma films, Libby at the asylum etc. -
Both times the planes happened to be flying over the area that they were at and thus got trapped within the island bubble for lack of a better word. Ajira landed on the Others runway that Kate and Sawyer had been working on during the Polar bear cages episodes and landed somewhat safely. Oceanic got ripped out of the sky by the eletro magnatism because Desmond happened to not push the button at the moment that 815 got trapped and thus got ripped apart. Still not sure how the passengers survived.
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Think about how much you hate Juliet...cause I do too. I actually got out of my seat at our season 5 finale meetup and shouted yes!
Now apply that hate to the trolls. Think of it as people who wanna jump on the bandwagon. They know the team that's doing good, they just cant name one player on the team besides Peyton Manning or Michael Jordan ya know?
Yeah, so the rest of us who have been loyal fans and have contributed to actual in-depth discussions, get to watch trolls jump aboard and talk like they know something, when they really dont.
The name calling is from frustration of not knowing your shit and being called out on it.
Then that's when someone posts a major episode spoiler in a TB that had been kept alive by people like Pa, Jay, Goldbeg, Hobo, & Chief. (And MacFaux)
So if ya dont know, now ya know....(N-word) Not that you really are, just quoting the song.
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Was for season 5's finale. In fact, it's still going strong.
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And I'm Irish.Thanx for looking at out group btw. Considering I'm a co-organizer and get 90+ a meetup I'm pretty sure people are ok around me. I'll post pics from the group taking me out for my bday tomorrow night.
Make sure you go to the site and scroll thru them all. -
And not just look at MY pictures, you'll see that our group is just about 300.
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"I'll indulge you, even though it'll probably just backfire on me."
Well, chances are I'm going to disagree, sure. ^^
"The tailies being the source of the mysterious radio message when Boone is in Yemi's plane"
Agreed. Not _so_ mysterious since the possibility there were more survivors was always there, but agreed.
"The polar bears "
Yeah. No. Sorry. ^_^;
I mean, it was obvious (and even confirmed by Fury, I believe?) that Walt was to be the culprit. They had planted hints early on (the comic book one was pretty obvious)... and in the end: "nope, it never had anything to do with Walt, why would you even think that?" Urgh. And now we've got our orphaned "Walt and his powers" thread...
The whole thing was so clumsy and transparent you could venture to establish its entire chronology:
1) "The idea for the polar bears is that Walt is conjuring them. We haven't really decided on the details just yet, but that's enough for the few episodes we're making anyway."
2) "Boy, we really weren't sure we'd get a full season order out of this! So, er... The idea of having a kid of Walt's age among the survivors really wasn't such a great one in retrospect, now that we're in for the long run, huh? The kid will grow up over the summer, how are we going to deal with that? I know! The mysterious Others will kidnap him! 'Makes for some drama at the end of the season, and we've established he was "special", so "naturally" the Others would be interested. It all works so well!"
3) "What do you mean, our show is still on? Er... Yeah, so that thing about the actor playing Walt growing up way too fast for the series isn't going to get any better, huh? Well, look: we don't know what to do with his father either, so why don't we get rid of them both? How? The Others let them leave! Betrayal! Drama! And do they _really_ escape or not? No way to tell. Intriguing! ... Yeah, so there was that thing about Walt having powers, and him summoning polar bears... But we could just downplay that and hope nobody will notice. Oh, I know! Jack and co will be prisoners, right? Let's put them in b*e*a*r c*a*g*e*s! *high fives all around*"
4) "Our viewers are leaving for Heroes? Fuck. 'Guess we should at least pretend we care about solving our main mysteries and give them _something_ that will turn the tide. OK, let's speed things up. Fuck, maybe even have the characters leave the island for a while. If _that_ doesn't make some noise... Oh, and since the viewers are getting bored with our flashbacks, we could intriduce the idea with flashfowards! Ah, but if they leave the island, we'll have to see what happened to Michael and his son... Damn Walt and his puberty... Hey, we could say _years_ pass off the island! So Walt would be the proper age once again! Boy, I feel like I just had Stephen Hawking for breakfast! Let's do that! So we can stop pretending Walt's powers never existed, now! Do a webisode or whatever they're called about them to refresh the viewers' memories!"
5) "Damn, who would have thought it would be so hard to come up with good reasons for all those characters to want to go back on the island? And we sure as hell still don't know what to make of Walt. Does he go back? Why? He's just a kid. And isn't he going to grow up again like last time? Meh. Oh, fuck it. We made the viewers forgot about Walt's powers once, why not do it twice? Adieu Walt! *pushes red button*"
"The cable on the beach"
I'd say the true mystery was how they never thought twice about that one...
"The Dharma initative orientation films"
You mean, the ones where Chang keeps using fake names just for shit and giggles? ;þ
And there would also be that thing about the reel excerpt ending up hidden in a Bible in some other Dharma station...
And the Pearl. What was up with that one anyway? "?" indeed!
"The polar bear in the desert"
What, did the bear push the frozen donkey wheel just like Ben and Locke? It doesn't seem like the kind of stuff that could happen by accident...
"The identity of Roger Workman"
Not really a mystery: he could just as well have been some random Dharma employee, after all. If anything, it's the fact he was connected to a such a major player that should be considered surprising...
"Jack’s tattoos... :P"
Oh no, you didn't!
(and Isabel was one lousy translator... I mean, come on, if you're going to use the actor's actual tattoos, please come up with something that works considering their actual meaning, instead of simply making shit up... it's just ridiculous when you know the Chinese characters...)
"I was very happy with how they explained the fake 815 plane, which was a huge wtf for me at the time."
'Can't say it was for me... We were well past the "they're all dead and in purgatory" theories at that point, and there was the obvious "it's staged because we wants to keep our island a seeecret" answer right there...
"I remember initially being really annoyed with Faraday's crazy behaviour in the beginning of season 4, and found it odd that he seemed to get more normal as the season progressed. I really loved the way that came together in the end of season 5, and it made me appreciate his performance that much more on a second viewing."
'Dunno, it was pretty crazy of him to barge in the Others' camp with a gun. All he had to do was to show his face and play the same "I'm a time traveler!" card Sawyer had used earlier. But then, he wouldn't have gotten shot!
And that scene you mention where we learn that going on the island could improve his condition... It reminds me of the way they finally explained that thing about him being so upset upon hearing news of the plane being found. Yet another quite intriguing mystery that was unceremoniously deflated: he was just upset. Because people had died. That was it. Yeah. You thought that was an actual mystery? 'Bet you guys also thought Walt had powers, huh? You crazy viewers...
"I don’t care why Desmond is unstuck in time, anymore than I cared why Billy Pilgrim was. I just care that they *were* unstuck, and what this did to them."
Well, I think you're easily satisfied. ;þ
I mean, that could fly in the case of Slaughterhouse-Five, but in Desmond's case, his story is deeply connected to "The Big Overall Story"... That kind of open-endedness on the micro-level is a big no-no: how do you build on that?
"Also, there are a lot of "mysteries" I'm completely happy if they never explain, because they are just surreal moments adding to the atmosphere of the show"
Like I told you in my previous reply, I think the directing/editing of the show is, well... very bland, so I'm not seeing any particular "atmosphere" that would be spiced up by "little surreal moments". Lynch this ain't... -
"I remember initially being really annoyed with Faraday's crazy behavior in the beginning of season 4, and found it odd that he seemed to get more normal as the season progressed. I really loved the way that came together in the end of season 5, and it made me appreciate his performance that much more on a second viewing."
I need to go back and watch 4. It'll be interesting to see Daniles transition to being more well.
I should have done this after learning Whidmore told Daniel that the Island would heal his mind.
Ya know, just go back and see if the writers were consistent in setting that up. -
Colonel Blimp - I salute you for liking Lost but being able to discuss it in a sane fashion with a real critic of the show.
Tough Guy - what can I say - you call people stupid for not getting Lost and then post explanations to challenges that are simply as stupid as anything the Lost writers could put out. God knows what planet you are on.
Jay - You on the other hand are definitely on planet fuckwit. You really haven't a clue whats going on have you. Your only response to reasonable questions is abuse or to wait for Rizzo to answer on your behalf. You sir are a comtemptible half-wit. And I am still waiting for you to answer one of the questions posed above such as why the Others kidnapped survivors and children. I thought it was still a mystery but, according to you its been answered - and the answer is ? -
Colonel_Blimp is the one who brought that up, not me. But I can see why you'd get confused, what with all the quotes. Sorry. ^_^;
"Ya know, just go back and see if the writers were consistent in setting that up."
I think they did a fairly good job on that one (for once). This is from early on in the season 4 (Lostpedia transcript of the episode "Eggtown"):
[DANIEL and CHARLOTTE are sitting at a fire. There is a table with cards on it before them.]
CHARLOTTE: Time. Okay, tell me. What do you remember?
DANIEL: Uh...queen of diamonds? Then we...six! Of clubs. Sorry. And then we have the red ten of...hearts, maybe?
[CHARLOTTE flips the cards over. He got all but the last one right.]
CHARLOTTE: It's two out of three. It's not bad. It's progress.
DANIEL: Three cards, Charlotte. Is that progress?
I think this exchange makes it pretty clear the writers had indeed planned the thing about Faraday's mental condition from day one (or, well, "early enough", anyway). -
Ask Blimp if he was offended.
I call trolls stupid. I tried to answer your Sayid question reasonably, but you're too stupid to accept it.
What planet am I on? Jesus, do you and lostboy have the same writer or do you really write your own material?
Not even feeling like I was put in my place. This whole TB's about writing. You gotta do better than that. -
In fact, I'm gonna go throw in Eggtown now. Christ. Kate-centric.
Well, it could be worse, it's not Juliet, lol. -
Here was your first answer on Sayid and my question why he would trust Ben:
He had a timestampped traffic photo.
Plus, wtf did Sayid have to live for now anyway? Why not kill? He's got nothing else in his life and Ben took advantage of that.
Are you really that stupid?
Do you understand how stupid and desperate that answer really is. In fact when it boils down to it all I have heard on this tb by way of axplanation for any real challenges is that characters weren't thinking straight or that characters were being assholes.
Is that it? Really?
Now come on tell me why the Others kidnapped survivors and children. -
Just ask him to list the three best episodes of LOST? He won't. He's too afraid to do it...he can't. cause once he does his pose is exposed...
Just ask him to list the three best sci fi shows of all time? Just as he wouldn't above. He won't now. Guaranteed.
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They were on the list. Ask Jacob. He likes to make lists. Ana Lucia even confirms it.
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Quantum Leap, Misfits of Science and Heroes. Best 3 ever. (I was serious tho about QL), as Georgia plays on my itunes ironically)
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Because we are sort of going in circles here. RE: Walt and the polar bears.So we've had hints that Walt could conjure stuff up. It was also alluded to that the island was in Hurley's head, and that it was purgatory/hell. Red herrings. I don't care whether Walt was to be the intended culprit anymore than I care that Jack was supposed to die in the pilot. What matters is what can be inferred from the show itself. And a polar bear in a comic book is not enough to state that they contradicted themselves on the show. Writers are allowed to change their minds. While your polar bear chronology sure was entertaining, it's not proof of clumsiness on the writers' part. Would you have preferred the bears being Walt's manifestations? I sure as hell wouldn't. What the hell would that say about anything? I love the extreme mundanity in the explanation of them being research animals for the DI, when the Losties and the audiences thought this a huge wtf mystery. I think it's unexpected, it's clever, it's witty, and it fits in perfectly with a recurring theme on the show, that everything seems fantastical when you don't know the explanation, and conversely, every explanation seems mundane once you're privy to it. ***"You mean, the ones where Chang keeps using fake names just for shit and giggles? ;þ" Yep. Funny, intriguing little grace notes with probably no influence on the major plot. Or maybe these are Changs from parallell universes? ***RE: Polar bear in the desert. It obviously pushed the donkey wheel. Maybe we'll learn how or why, maybe we won't. Whatever the explanation, it's not going to matter. The great thing here is the intriguing premise of a Dharma polar bear in the middle of Tunisia. ***"Can't say it was for me... We were well past the "they're all dead and in purgatory" theories at that point." Actually, we were right in the middle of it. See: The Brig. ***"Dunno, it was pretty crazy of him to barge in the Others' camp with a gun."Two different kinds of crazy. The first was brain damage and short term memory loss, the other was irrational and stupid. ***"Well, I think you're easily satisfied. ;þ" I'm definitely not easily satisfied, I'm just more interested in the implications of the story rather than the pure plot machinations. It works out well for me, and I get the impression it saves me a lot of teeth gnashing.Well, bedtime in Europe. Have a nice one. You're pretty civilized and eloquent for a "troll", but you should definitely rewatch the show. Or at least confer with Lostpedia a lot more :)See you in another talkback, brutha.
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some people are just too in love with their own opinions...
we get it - he don't like ANYTHING about the show, and yet not only watched the entire series run - more than once, it seems - but hangs around a TB for an entire week to keep banging ppl over the head with how much he doesn't like anything about the show - in great detail...
seriously
what is the point?
opinions are like arse holes - sure everybody's got one but who the fuck wants to keep looking at their own one all the fucking time?? -
you typed with grrrreat fury.."And it is *you're* when you mean *you are*, not *your*. And it's not a typo when you constantly do it."
And then you typed.. "That's mainly evident if your resorting to the same tactics that you decry in others. See above, re: lack of self-awareness."
Yes! Good lordy and lady euro-douchebaggins! You are gonna need a 'Crow' bar to pry that self-palm off you face. Maybe the Jaws of Life. That you clowned yourself in the same sentence you lecture about 'self-awareness' is awesomely universally ...God, *sorry* I can't stop laughin. ..thanks, sweetheart. I needed that.
How do you keep all your multi-logins straight with an intellect of that class and spec. too funny. Ah, Oh..wooo..you tickle me. -
above the Tuff Guy addressed me with the comment "think of how much you hate Juliet."I suspect he's been in these Lost TBs long enuff to know or suspect who I used to be (NP).So, for the record, I have no problemo with Juliet. though, as a pr0nhound, I'm not nearly as impressed with her supposedly legendary cans as some of the kids here seem to be. I even D/L'd her Gia scene from p.Thunder and, not that impressed. But I don't judge people by their hootskis. I have no Juliet hate, and think she ans James made an adorable couple.Long timers who know me are well aware that I've been a Kate Hater on the "Kill Kate" bandwagon as far back as the first season one lost promo promising "a major character will die". By now I've given up hoping that The Triangle won't survive until the series finale, but I'd be delightfully surprised to be proven wrong.You recap, not a Kate fan, no problem with Juliet. And loved Dustin in Midnight Cowboy, Rizz.I'm gonna go ENJOY Chuck and Heroes while you kids laugh at me behind my back. See you Wednesday in the next life - or next talk-back, as the case may be.
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On the list? One of my favorite TV episodes of all time is the Quantum Leap epi The Leap Home ..week after the second part I was in the sand.
Anyway, don't let the trolls get you down, man. 2leg just wishes he could party with ya. -
"Just ask him to list the three best episodes of LOST? He won't. He's too afraid to do it..."
Er... Why would I be "afraid" to do that, exactly? ^^;;
If anything, it would be a bit difficult for me, considering how I lost all hope that the writers weren't just hacks during the course of season 2: that considerably affected my enjoyment of the show from that point on, as you can imagine...
* From those innocent days when it still seemed like the show could go somewhere decent, the would be the fan favorite "Walkabout". The flashback twist was a nice one (even if I saw it coming), and the implications... Well, it was intriguing. And I like O'Quinn.>
* "Orientation", if only for the "we're going to need to watch that again" scene. The rest was kinda meh (yet another boring flashback), but I really liked that scene.
* "Ji Yeon", for the flashback fake-out. Gratuitous? Yeah, kinda, I guess, but I still liked it overall.
Ask me again in three months and I might come up with a different/better selection, but after a cursory glance, that's I have right now. Happy? ^^;
"Just ask him to list the three best sci fi shows of all time? Just as he wouldn't above."
"Just as I wouldn't above"? I told you that I had already listed a few titles early on in this talkback. You _can_ read, yes?
Anyway... Right now, I think I'd say the Twilight Zone, the Prisoner and Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex. -
watch the actual television program on regular weekly basis when its on. ok? if u dont know the answers to ur "questions" then u obviously havent been watching. your own responses to my posts win the arguments for me lol. dont get mad at me if u cant win. now go back and give ur buddy lostBOYtexASS a reach around. planet fuckwit lol...thats so funny! i have been pwned!!!
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u do know its SEASON 6 now right?? quit bitching about season 2 for crying out loud lol. damn...
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Frankly, while I disagree with you, I think you are valid in your criticisms. What I still don't understand is why, if the show is so poorly written, trite, inconsistent and predictable, why in the wild, wild world of sports do you keep watching it? Your complaints are many of the same ones I had about Heroes, and so you know what I did? I stopped watching. I don't miss it in the least, and I don't feel compelled to chime in on talkbacks for that show.
I know you said something in another thread about wanting t be aware of the current state of sci-fi, but to be honest, that dog seems to be incapable of hunting. So what gives, man? Are you just a glutton for punishment? Is someone holding you captive and forcing you to watch it against your will? Are your eyes propped open with Clockwork Orange-style eyelid braces? I gotta say, if I bit into a sandwich that turned out to be cheese and dogshit on rye, I wouldn't take another bite of it. You seem to be bellying up to the all-you-can-eat crap buffet... -
"So we've had hints that Walt could conjure stuff up. It was also alluded to that the island was in Hurley's head, and that it was purgatory/hell. Red herrings."
Nah, that thing about the island being all in Hurley's head was obviously a one episode thing (besides, how could he be so important when he's so _fat_?? let's make more clever jokes about how the fat guy loves food!), and the purgatory/hell stuff just one crazy theory that never really had anything to clearly support it. Walt's comic book, on the other hand? The thing with the bird, in the flashback? The ghostly apparitions of the kid? Ben acknowledging the boy was "special"? The webisode? Pardon my French, but "red herring, my ass!" It's a plot thread that was very obviously _there_ and it was completely abandoned.
"Writers are allowed to change their minds."
Sure, as long as it doesn't show. That's how you can tell good writers from bad ones.
"Would you have preferred the bears being Walt's manifestations?"
Well, considering the hints were there, yes. If the hints hadn't been planted? Maybe not.
But what we got in the end sure wasn't all that thrilling... They were just some Dharma test subjects. OK. Well.
"I think it's unexpected, it's clever, it's witty"
'Looks like we completely disagree once again, then. ^^;
"and it fits in perfectly with a recurring theme on the show, that everything seems fantastical when you don't know the explanation, and conversely, every explanation seems mundane once you're privy to it."
That's a "recurring theme of the show", really? How so? I mean, yeah, we've had more than a few "intriguing mysteries" lamely explained away, but a _theme_? I think you're giving the writers waaaaay too much credit... And a free pass for all kinds of shit, really.
"Funny, intriguing little grace notes with probably no influence on the major plot."
So you're just fine with him using a bunch of aliases for no discernable reason?
"Or maybe these are Changs from parallell universes?"
... You're not on their staff, are you? ;þ
"Polar bear in the desert. It obviously pushed the donkey wheel. Maybe we'll learn how or why, maybe we won't."
I'm more than willing to bet we won't get that bear-centric episode.
"The great thing here is the intriguing premise of a Dharma polar bear in the middle of Tunisia."
For me, it's not "great", it's just that: "intriguing". Coming up with intriguing stuff isn't all that difficult, really. Have it make sense in the end, now, _that_ requires some craft. And the Lost writers proved time and again they just didn't have it in them.
"we were right in the middle of it. See: The Brig."
When Locke's father described his experience, it sure sounded like some good old kidnapping... I saw absolutely no good reason to buy into the guy's "hell" theory. But I guess I _was_ indeed supposed to wonder. Sorry, writers, but you'll have to try harder.
"You're pretty civilized and eloquent for a "troll", but you should definitely rewatch the show."
Meh. I think I'm fine. ^_^;
Anyway, thanks for the discussion. And maybe "see you later", who knows? I don't think I'll stay around during the season, but I might come back for the aftermath. -
"he don't like ANYTHING about the show"
Barely anything, yeah...
"and yet not only watched the entire series run"
I explained why already.
"- more than once, it seems -"
Nope, just once, actually. I try to pay attention to the shows I watch, that's all.
"seriously what is the point?"
Discussion is the point. -
hell ya man best news iv heard all week. i hope u keep that promise AssiHague. "discussion is the point" man, i laughed my ass out of my seat on that one! ur a deranged one brotha lol...
-
"why, if the show is so poorly written, trite, inconsistent and predictable, why in the wild, wild world of sports do you keep watching it? Your complaints are many of the same ones I had about Heroes, and so you know what I did? I stopped watching."
And I still watch Heroes, too! ^__^
I already answered that one above, but considering how long this talkback now is, I guess I can't blame you for not going through it (and it feels like I keep repeating myself, too... god, who would want to go though all that, now?), so...
Part of it is that I was once a bit invested/interested in it. OK, that was really early on, but still. I only rarely completely abandon a series. 'Guess that kinda borders on morbid curiosity, here? Ah, well.
But I also think there's some stuff to be learned from terrible movies/shows/whatever. More than from "merely okay" ones, actually.
I mentioned Uwe Boll earlier, as that's one certified hack (and apparently quite the gaping asshole as well) whose movies I keep watching anyway. How could I explain myself... Aside from the obvious badness, there's all those "little things" that just _don't work_, and... Well, let's say I've seen a lot of merely "okay" action movies, some arguably great ones, and while I can sometime tell what it is that makes an action scene "work" better than the next, some other times, I just couldn't tell exactly. It "feels" good, but why? It can be a bit hard to pinpoint. But then comes along Uwe Boll, and his movies are _so terribly shot_ that I suddenly find myself rewinding entire sequences just to try and tell what's so wrong about this picture. And it's quite the educative experience. All those movies that I thought were bad were actually still made with some kind of basic competence, and I had never realized that until Boll smacked me in the face with his complete lack of skill. His movies are a disaster, yes, but it's like I recover from the trauma to realize that I can now see more colors than before! I've been bitten by a radioactive hack. 'Helps me understand what works (or really, _really_ doesn't) in a given scene, 'helps me better appreciate fine craft when I encounter it.
Now I realize a lot of people wouldn't want to go through the trouble and are perfectly content with simply enjoying good flicks, but... heh, I just like to "analyze/understand stuff". And when I watch a TV show like Lost, I keep seeing stuff that makes me go "oh, and that's why _don't_ want to do that when you're writing a complex story with an ensemble cast! *takes some notes*"
"I know you said something in another thread about wanting t be aware of the current state of sci-fi"
Well, there's that, too: whether I think it's deserved or not (take a wild guess!), it _is_ a sensation (as far as US television is concerned, anyway) and might just shape the future of SF/fantasy on US television for years to come, so I'd rather know what's it about. -
""discussion is the point" man, i laughed my ass out of my seat on that one!"
Somehow, I'm not surprised you'd find that laughable. -
So that he can come here and argue about it in order to feel smug and superior, obviously. Come on guys, its a bit transparent what he's doing here. (That and make very difficult-to-read responses)
-
"very difficult-to-read responses"
'Guess that might explain why MacFaux and you keep ignoring the content of my posts... I didn't think my English was _that_ bad, but... -
... Because its become increasingly obvious that you A) don't like the show and B) won't budge on your opinions. So C) it is pointless to engage you. I see nothing fruitful coming out of it. I come to this Talkback to discuss theories and ideas and geek out with like-minded people, not to watch others try to defend the show to someone who claims its extremely poorly written but then goes to great lengths to tell people why its poorly written and why he's watched so much of it and why he spends so much time telling people why its poorly written and... you get the picture.
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Aren't 99% of comics all caps anyway? THey do that bolding thing though, maybe that's what you're talking about ... However that wouldn't be the letterer's decision, but the writer's.
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Bday love people.. My LOST artwork this week is me and Desmond in the Hatch drinking Mccuthions. Good times. If any of you have FB and want to see it, I'll post a link after midnight.
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Feb 08, 2010 11:22:40 PM CST
standing back and proclaiming everyone else is wrong or stupid
by maniaq
is NOT "discussion"
some of us were quite prepared to actually discuss the show with you, Ollie, but one by one we just got sick of you dismissing everything as "bad" or "dumb" or whatever...
just because you have some insane need to beat yourself over the head repeatedly with something (the more painful the better apparently), the rest of us know when enough is enough
btw don't bother picking a handful of my words to responding to coz I've had enough
ENOUGH I SAY!! -
Yes, you're right, After rereading that post later I realized I was referring to the SOME TB'ers use of RANDOM allcaps but comparing IT TO Jack Kirby's POST-Marvel work - that is, the stuff he wrote himself (specifically ON Kamandi, but I suspect others titles as WELL) in WHICH seemingly random WORDS appeared in dark, bold LETTERING in a WAY that was Not naturalistic in the WAY that the dialogue would BE delivered if SPOKEN. It always LOOKED to me as IF the emBOLDenING was done more to create an artistic BALANCE within the word balloons in ORDER to make the original art pages more ATTRACTIVE than to SERVE any NARRATIVE function.By comparing certain tbers writing styles here to Kirby's '70s comic work, no offense was meant... to Kirby.So, General, catch that HULK yet?
-
Out of curiosity: Olivier, have you ever tried to write something for film or television? And I mean not fan fiction or something that was never produced or given an audience, but actual television fiction that was broadcast? Because I do that for a living, and I find that's an entirely different ballpark than spending time on the internet claiming how easy it is to write a "hack" show like Lost. (Definitely not trying to brag, I'm not saying I'm an expert or anything, I just want to know who I'm up against, because you do seem to know quite a bit on the subject. And no, I'm not on their staff :P)P.S. Maybe an unfortunate use of the word "theme" in my prev post re: the mundanity of explanations, but it's definitely a point that's been made several times within the diegetic universe.
-
"have you ever tried to write something for film or television?"
Nah, I don't see myself doing that, really. For a whole bunch of reasons.
"I find that's an entirely different ballpark than spending time on the internet claiming how easy it is to write a "hack" show like Lost."
I'm sure it is. But I don't think I need to be a chef to tell that this fly shouldn't be in my soup (or, once again, what to make of somebody like Ebert, for example?).
And maybe I should clarify that while I think the writing is terrible, I can see several possible reasons for the (completely undeserved, in my opinion) success of the show. The directing/editing may be old hat and clichéd, but clichés are clichés for a reason: they're effective. And Giacchino does his job. Then, there would be that whole thing about most viewers being unfamiliar with SF/fantasy elements (basically, give them alternate timelines, and they'll be so wowed it won't matter if it doesn't really make sense... heck, in case of emergency, just tell them it doesn't have to make sense _precisely_ because it's SF/fantasy and they might just believe you!), the fact they feel good about trying to decipher stuff in the show (and since they've put some work in it, they'll also want to put some _faith_ in it... or it would all have been for nothing, and we can't have that)...
I think those guys are hacks as writers, but as _salesmen_, they did a very good job, and it shows.
"I just want to know who I'm up against"
I'm just some guy who's seen far better, and is concerned about the consequences of such a show being such a hit. I like my SF/fantasy, and I don't think I need things to get any worse on US television, on that front. -
“I'm sure it is. But I don't think I need to be a chef to tell that this fly shouldn't be in my soup (or, once again, what to make of somebody like Ebert, for example?).”
Not really valid analogies. The fly in the soup doesn’t say anything about either the chef’s cooking abilities or the quality of the soup (it says a lot about the restaurant, though.). And while any resaturant guest is entitled to his opinion of whether or not the food was to his taste, one should be really careful before telling the chef how to do his job. But of course, that’s the problem when you make food, music, movies or television: everyone’s a critic. Furthermore, making a TV show is a lot more complex than preparing a meal. As for Ebert, and critics in general, they are either formally educated, or trained into watching films in a different matter (not counting all the wannabe critics out there, a lot of them on this site, both regular contributors and talkbackers). I’m definitely not saying that you need to be either a filmmaker or have a college degree in film to have an opinion, all I’m saying is that critics and filmmakers look at things in a different way and emphasize other things than the more “common” viewer (no offense). Professional critics don’t review films the way you review Lost, which you do, to be frank, quite anally. For instance, you seem to be way too hung up in what the creators have said in interviews and what you assume to be their intentions to see the show for what it is. In other words: your reasons for thinking the writing on this show is bad, don’t have the universal, objective value as you maybe seem to think they have. If you want your criticism to be taking seriously as such, and not just a hater’s rant, you need to let go of the “I’m right, and everyone who likes this show are easily entertained and have been deluded by the bells and whistles”-anti fanboy attitude, because quite frankly, it’s sort of unprofessional. There is no right or wrong here.Still, have a nice day! -
"The fly in the soup doesn’t say anything about either the chef’s cooking abilities or the quality of the soup (it says a lot about the restaurant, though.)."
Well, sorry for keeping the analogy going, but when the chef comes out and tries to convince you that the fly is part of the m*a*g*i*c...
"Professional critics don’t review films the way you review Lost, which you do, to be frank, quite anally."
Don't worry, I wouldn't review just _any_ title in that same manner. I try to factor in (whether I succeed or not is another matter, but if I weren't relatively confident, I wouldn't bother you guys with all that) what the show/movie/writers set up to accomplish. It could be presenting the viewers with a bunch of likable characters and a nice little story, giving them a "ride" with some over-the-top action scenes... 'Could be a lot of different things.
In the case of Lost, they promised a complex and layered story told via an ensemble cast and a bunch of "chronology jumps". They promised a plot that would reward the viewer's attention to details (the ARGs and other viral videos are just more evidence of that: the show is presented like a puzzle where all the pieces matter, and it's up to _you_ to catch 'em all!). So _yes_, I'm reviewing Lost "quite anally", and I feel completely entitled to call the writers out on the fact they simply don't deliver (when other far less well-known writers do, sometimes with far bolder storytelling).
(the fact they regularly come off as downright dishonest (or are they just plain clueless?) about it all in interviews and such does very little to quell my Righteous Internet Outrage (TM)...)
"If you want your criticism to be taking seriously as such, and not just a hater’s rant, you need to let go of the “I’m right, and everyone who likes this show are easily entertained and have been deluded by the bells and whistles”-anti fanboy attitude"
Sorry, but it's the only explanation I'm seeing so far... And I'd think the fact I'm not seeing another explanation (not even after discussing with you guys, sorry) shouldn't be enough to discredit my stance right there and then, especially considering I take the time to explain myself regarding several examples. What does it take to _not_ be labeled a troll, now? ^^;
"Still, have a nice day!"
Thanks, you too! -
Thanks for your response. I guess this is just one of those things I'll never get, like blood pudding, or people who don't like Seinfeld.
cheers. -
For what it's worth, I think we'd agree about blood pudding and Seinfeld. That's always something. ^^
-
I do find Lost entertaining and some of the characters are very watchable i.e. Sawyer, Hurley, Miles & Desmond.
For me I'd live with something that was entertaining but that maybe on reflection later didn't quite make sense.
For me with Lost though there are just too many moments where you are stopped in your tracks by one of those "why the fuck would anyone in their right mind do or say that?" moments. And that spoils the show for me. -
http://tinyurl.com/yetr8km
To be fair some of the questions raised have been answered - still funny though.
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