Cool News
‘All Of This Has Happened Before!!’ Fresh, Non-Huluable CAPRICA Hits Syfy Friday!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
Friday brings “Rebirth,” scripted by Mark Verheiden (“Crossroads Part 2,” “The Road Less Traveled,” “The Oath”), the first real episode of the “Battlestar Galactica” prequel “Caprica.”
“Caprica” from here turns into a swell series. It moves in directions I hadn’t anticipated when watching the pilot back in April. This far-off planet feels a lot like America 15 years from now, but we come to discover that it’s different in ways we never learned from “Battlestar Galactica.”
Plus? Scary robots!
Next week Patton Oswalt joins the fray as chat show host Baxter Sarno. James Marsters follows soon after.
Syfy says of “Rebirth”:
“Zoe (Alessandra Torresani) struggles with being trapped in the robot while grief and pressure mount on the Adamas and the Graystones. Joseph (Esai Morales) makes a decision that drives him to confront Daniel (Eric Stoltz), and Amanda (Paula Malcomson) makes a shocking public confession.”
The critics have seen 1.2.
Variety says:
… through its first four hours (including a two-hour premiere), "Caprica" exhibits more than enough promise to justify the mission …
Entertainment Weekly says:
… Less action-packed than BSG, but still awash in the familiar themes of life, loss, identity, and big frakkin' robots with guns. …
USA Today says:
… Clarity was never a Battlestar strong point, but the writers now seem to have adopted incomprehensibility as a virtue. It isn't. Again, if you loved all things Battlestar beyond measure, Caprica may satisfy. For all others, this is a planet best left unvisited. …
The New York Times says:
… All this high-minded stage setting could produce an intriguing drama of ideas or a talky futuristic soap opera. The goal, presumably, is to achieve both — it’s the “Battlestar Galactica” combo — but it’s going to be harder to do now that the humans have left the spaceship. Back on the surface, without the ironclad premise and heightened atmosphere of “Galactica,” “Caprica” is, almost by default, a more ordinary show.
The Los Angeles Times says:
In the midst of all its programming woes, [Syfy overlord] NBC has managed to achieve something close to the impossible -- a prequel series that should not only please all comers but may expand the demographic of science fiction fans everywhere. …
The Chicago Tribune says:
… If the show is guilty of anything in the first few episodes, it's of trying to do too much, which is preferable to a lack of ambition. …
The Washington Post says:
… not only differs from "Avatar" but improves on it. … There's enough going on in "Caprica" to keep a sci-fi fan, or anyone who likes to settle into a good story, satisfied and even beguiled -- and though it's shot too dark those watching on an upscale, big-screen TV will be treated to a visual spectacular. … Syfy is owned, as you probably know, by NBC Universal, so there's one added pleasure to be gleaned from "Caprica" -- the rare sight of NBC doing something right.
The San Francisco Chronicle says:
… superb new series … Like "BSG," what makes "Caprica" so instantly compelling is that it succeeds with a strong story in a unique setting and isn't afraid to tackle big issues - religion and race being two of the largest. …
The Newark Star Ledger says:
… grapples with many of the contemporary dilemmas that "Galactica" handled -- religious strife, terrorism, overreliance on technology -- but, in placing them in a world that looks like the one outside our window, it can be blunter about it. The holo-band nightclub where Zoe and her friends meet in secret -- an online Sodom and Gomorrah, filled with (virtual) sex, drugs and even human sacrifice -- is like every parent's worst nightmare about what his kids are up to on Facebook, Twitter and the rest of the web. And by casting all of the prominent Tauran characters immigrants with Latin actors (and the Capricans with whites), it emphasizes the race and class distinctions in a way that "Galactica" couldn't with its use of Cylons as stand-ins for Muslim extremists. …
The Boston Globe says:
… While the technology is inventive, fear, frustration, and anguish still drive the plot. We’re back in “Battlestar’’ territory, and that feels good.
9 p.m. Friday. Syfy.
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$7.99 Kubrick’s Masterpiece on Blu-ray!!
$5.99 Blu-ray!! = Cheaper Than Used!!
$7.99 Kubrick’s Masterpiece on Blu-ray!!
$5.99 Blu-ray!! = Cheaper Than Used!!
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The pilot intrigued me and BSG was righteous. Consider my butt on the couch and feet up for Caprica goodness.
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Cylons in abundance, this is going to suck...
-herb -
I don't really feel any pressing need to spend more time in the Galactica universe, but James Marsters is irresistible.
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Hm, I was lukewarm, but Herc's comments are bold enough to actually give me some true interest. Plus I'm a Patton fan.
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Jan 29, 2010 2:42:40 AM CST
Herc also thinks Entourage is Better Than Arrested Development
by fastcars
Important information.
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Jan 29, 2010 2:57:59 AM CST
Herc also thinks Entourage is Better Than Arrested Development
by hercules
A LOT better!
Gold > GOB -
AD is incredibly over-rated
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After the major abomination that was the Series finale (Season 4 = moderate abomination), I gave up TV and started learning Lithuanian.
True Story. -
I haven't learn time travel yet and hence haven't seen the Caprica Series Finale yet.
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Should be excellent.
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Arrested Development was almost perfect.
Outside of Piven the rest of the characters suck. Even Drama. -
They've already filmed the whole season and SyFy doesn't pull shows that aren't rating, they let them finish and then cancel them.
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Really, what else does "SyFy" have to run with? And what a stupid, stupid "rebranding" horrible waste of money and resources for ridiculous looking new name.
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Jan 29, 2010 4:46:08 AM CST
CarmillaVonDoom: Syfy was the most successful rebranding of 2009
by anamika
So it wasn't a waste of money and resources.
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...as the characters drone on and on about 'morality' and 'what makes a human?' and 'can a computer have a soul?' blah blah blah as the pilot was full of.
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What about Farscape?
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The reviewer in this case couldn't keep the overarching timeline correct. Not that the series hangs on chronology, but shoudln't a reviewer understand the TEXT before he tries to go messing around in the SUBtext?
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the name sounds like an STD. But it's at least better than iPad, MADtv gets in one really good shot even after cancellation....
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But Entourage over AD is fucking retarded. To each his own and all...but Entourage has been the exact same 30 minuts, over and over and over, since at least hte middle of the second season. What is the point of watching something where its always the same story and everything always works out? This last season was by far the worst. Vince didn't do anything.
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...mostly for Marsters. But the pilot was not impressive.
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I'll admit, Piven is the shit, but the other 4 mouthbreathers need to die in a bus crash.
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is just the least creative show I've ever watched. Its that simple. Doesn't mean it is isn't mostly enjoyable. But they don't take risks, they don't change things, and everything works out. There's no drama and little actual comedy. It's just...there...most of the time. The acid trip episode is the most creative the show has ever been. That is sad.
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but Entourage is the cooler show. Oh, and it's still on the air too, deuchebags.
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...Because this actually looks more compelling the more clips I see from it. What a pity they didn't just conclude BSG with an open ending...
"Hey, man...this ain't Earth."
"Yeah, I know."
"Whadda we do now?"
"Gotta do like Dylan says, baby...keep on keepin' on. SADDLE UP! WE'RE MOVIN' OUT, PEOPLE!" -
But this looks fantastic. Loved the pilot. Love that the bad guys come from a little girl who was so far seperated from her parents that she would become the bad guy. Love that the parent do not see that she is troubled enough to become the bad guy and want to bring her back. The series is a wake up call for parents whose kids live an entire seperate life through social media in a virtual reality. The next big terrorist is not foreign. It will be home grown, and the parents will be clueless. Instead of communicating any frustrations outward, youth are diving into communities of unrest and organized hate. Brilliant commentary on society today.
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After the way they handled the last two seasons of BSG, I refuse to waste my time, on this sure-to-be-a-turd-of-a-show.
Jane Espenson took everything that was interesting about BSG and threw it in the incinerator; turning the show, into a kind of 90210 in space. Eick, Moore, Espenson and the whole 'Caprica' boondoggle are dead to me.
An honorable hat-full of shit goes to Bonnie Hammer at SyFy/NBC Universal, for the shitty planning and the 18 month BSG hiatuses. -
Will take every opportunity to remind the BSG guys how much they royally screwed us in that last season.
I mean we know how it all ends. And it ends LAME. What possible reason could there be to make this thing? There's nothing compelling here. -
I'd be more interested in what happened after the Galactica crew settled on Earth. What was their relationship with the Cylons? Did they degenerate into warring factions supported by different Cylons? Did the Cylons come to be considered gods themselves? That would be interesting. Violence, intrigue, Cylons, the beginnings of religion and myth. On the other hand I tried to watch the Caprica pilot and turned it off about halfway through. It was just boring.
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'Let's throw all our technology into the sun and doom ourselves and our children to a slow, painful, meaningless death'. Seriously, after that who gives a FUCK about anything related to BSG?
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I've always thought he was a great actor. Bodies, Rest & Motion, naked in New York, etc. He's done some very fine work, though most probably know him from his small role in Pulp Fiction.
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All you hatrs who are "still bitter" are just morons. I hate to say it, I don't like to troll or be mean, but its the truth. If you don't think that faith and God and the idea of angels didn't fit in with that show to make an entirely satisfying and thematically consistent finale, then you weren't paying attention to the right show. You clearly watched it for space fights, robots, and action. THE WHOLE SHOW, from the first episode, was about spirtuality, faith in God, and life beyond our physical understanding. This is the first, and only time, I've come out with my opinions on the finale. I was just too amazed at all the hate. You didn't understand the show. It's honestly that simple. You did not understand what the show was about. It wasn't about fucking robots. "God did it" is the grossest oversimplification of a finale I have ever heard. The show tied itself up in the strongest way it possibly could. I'll be the first one to admit season 4.5 or whatever, the episode leading up to the finale, mostly crap. I don't disgaree there. They weren't good. But that finale wrapped things up better than I could have ever anticipated. You are all just wrong. I'm really sorry.
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How 'bout 'Mask'? or 'Some Kind of Wonderful'? or 'Memphis Belle' or 'The Fly 2'? or for being the original Marty McFly? The guy had a pretty high profile career, before 1993.
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You should be. BSG WAS about humans. It turned into the Helen and Cavil show.Dipshit.
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1 ) When the angels showed Adama what the fleet would have been like had he never been born, and Old Man Potter was the commander instead...and 2 ) When the crew all heard the bell ring, and they knew that Kara had gotten her wings.
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The cubits aren't here... they're Tom's Battlestar... and Racetrack's viper... and Athena's raptor...
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like ever?
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pretty unwarranted as well, oh wait, you're arguing on the internet, on AICN no less, what was I thinking?
Jesus people, if you hate it so much, why dont you try, you know, writing your own damn sci-fi series?
Or try out other ones rather than just naysaying shit because someone made a decision you didn't like. Jesus the retard mentality of people like this guy are the reason they cancel good shows. -
Who would have guessed that a show that spent four years talking about religion, that had a regular recurring charactr with magical powers who identified herself repeatedly as "An angel from God," and that had one main character actually turn himself into a Christ-like religious leader, would actually have some religion in the finale. Yes, Starbuck's final storyline was ridiculous, but if you can't buy into one hand of God mindfuck after they spent 4 years earning it, then you either weren't paying attention or have very limited imagination. Here's how it goes- God sent her back to guide them to earth, and she guided them to earth. Maybe you people would have prefered if Alanis Morisette showed up and spelled it out to Starbuck instead of all that piano stuff?
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Have such a stick up their asses all the time? Yeah, the vision ended up being religion based. Deal with it. The bitterness is petty and does not make you look any more smarter than the next guy. That is the main purpose to go full on athiest right? To prove that you are more intellegent than the masses that follow religion, or even question if there is a higher power. Those fools are just more dumber than the athiest that has it all figured out. Fer sure!
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Shouldn't the ultimate proof for your religion be how you would act if there really wa no higher power. Would you act the same, or were you just sucking up for an afterlife?? Without that afterlife -- who are you really -- at your core?? At least as much of a citizen as the athiest??? Are you sure???
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from the very beginning....And RJM only had (by definition) 3 basic choices on the Earth they found: Past, Present, Future. And he lost the fifth season (thanks for nothin, Syphy).Would I have liked a bit more explanation and revelation about the nature of the InHeads, Starbuck, and NotLeoben? Sure. Was there time for that with, effectively, the loss of 20 or so hours of Season 5? Nope.The movie/mini-series I REALLY want to see is a cylon centric story leading up to the attack on the colonies. "The Plan" was fun to watch, but really should have been called "The Replan: a patchwork quilt outake collection"
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Seriously who would be interested in this after BSG's finale? It turned an utterly fantastic 4 year run sci-fi show into an irrelevant piece of shit in only 20-30 minutes. I didn't even try to sell my first two seasons on dvd. I burned them. I just can't watch any itereation of this story again knowing how it ends. It completely ruined it for me.
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Seriously who would be interested in this after BSG's finale? It turned an utterly fantastic 4 year run sci-fi show into an irrelevant piece of shit in only 20-30 minutes. I didn't even try to sell my first two seasons on dvd. I burned them. I just can't watch any itereation of this story again knowing how it ends. It completely ruined it for me.
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I spent many years in marketing, and in the process discovered that nearly all marketing employees have lost contact with humanity. This is an example.
I don't think I've ever seen the name "SyFy" pop up in a discussion over the last year, without a footnote or conversational tangent included about how irritating, stupid, and downright embarrassing their new name is.
Some marketing people believe that all discussion about their product helps them. It doesn't. -
...my single biggest problem with the finale was that the remaining humans decided to fly their space ships into the sun and split up into tiny groups to sight-see. Not only does this go against everything we know about human nature but it invalidates the whole purpose of their journey, which wasn't about anything so petty as personal survival but was about preserving their race and culture. And if you wanna' come back with the comment that they had decided their race and culture wasn't worth saving well...why find earth at all? Why go back to rescue Athena? Why not just stay on the ships when you fly them into the sun? See, logically you really can't have that both ways. Second biggest problem? There wasn't a plan. The cylons never had a plan, and because they didn't have a plan a great many of their actions throughout the run of the show but most especially in the first season make just no sense at all. Third biggest wasn't Starbuck being an angel but the final stinger in the (our?) modern world where BalatarAngel and SixAngel show up to crack wise. It was just terrible and embarrassing in a whole host of ways, not in keeping with the tone of anything that had gone before, and...even assuming that both head denizens were in fact angels...even assuming they took the forms they did specifically so they could speak to the person they were mentoring...did they just like those forms so well that fifty thousand years later they're still the ones they're wearing? Say something like "well you needed them to look that way so you'd know what was going on" and I'll know you're only championing the intelligence of the show where it suits your purpose. And I still love BSG. But there's no defending how it ended.
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But I think almost any ending would have been unsatisfactory in certain ways.The choice to arrive in Earth's distant past forced the question: what happens to all the technology? So a fairly simplistic and contrived solution there, I admit. It could have been that all tech was retained in orbit, for milennia, as crew manned it and used it judiciously to guide and protect the development below. But with fewer episodes, this would have been a complex reveal to handle in a few moments.The choice to arrive in Earth's present day (or even in this century) seemed problematic on many levels, not the least of which was that TOS did that already--and not very well.A decision to find an Earth that is thousands of years in our future adds layers of interesting possibilities--and those would need time to develop before ending the series: when they found the false earth completely devastated and in ruins, well, it wasn't a good way for them to find the real earth. So they would have had to find a flourishing, advanced civilization on earth, and some connection from that civilization back to the colonies, etc etc.One option that might have worked out if they had been given the time to develop it was to bring in the Count Iblis arc--the final finding of Earth might have then been the home of the beings of light, for example, and the source of the InHeads, the visions.
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Nice Dogma reference there. Alanis as God.
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Jan 29, 2010 3:44:31 PM CST
Syfy's average ratings and total viewers increased after rebrand
by anamika
especially in female viewers across all demos (except teens). It is now the #6 best rated cable network on television.
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than the rebranding...
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BSG ending means no Caprica watching for me. If you're going to make God(s) a central theme, flesh it out for us at least at the end, don't just toss fragments of recognizably religious mystery at us while winking "is it or isn't it?" It's a STORY so you should tell the WHOLE STORY and skip on this "the characters are the story" cop-out po-mo bullshit.
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Piven's good, but any single Arnett scene from AD is better than the entirety of Piven's ENTOURAGE scenes. Not to mention the fact that AD had an infinitely better ensemble cast, featured groundbreaking television camerawork and was smarter and more quickly witty than ENTOURAGE (which quickly fell into formula) by a mile. Herc gets it right a lot of the time, but let's not forget that he DOES get it wrong. I recall him posting endless praise for the insipidly written, abysmally acted ROSWELL... so I've never considered him an arbiter of taste. Besides, it's all subjective, anyway.
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Has there ever been a good prequel?
Nothing comes to my mind. -
...I feel your pain, brother. And you know, I could sit down and happily watch the mini or scores of other episodes tonight, up to and including the final assault on the cylons. I really loved that show, and even the bad middle run it suffered wasn't enough to make me stop loving it (though there are a few episodes during that run that I would not sit down and happily watch). But what happened at the end wasn't due to not having another season. It was due to not having a coherent vision. Much like the Cylons, they didn't really have a plan. But I'm not going to fight you on this, because I think I know pretty much exactly how you feel.
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...the Godfather II is really both sequel and prequel and it's...all right. A lot of folks think the early stuff with DeNiro is really the best part of the movie, so that might count. Yeah, I'm cheating, but Butch and Sundance: The Early Days just wasn't going to make it.
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I was referring to all of the shirts, mugs, hats and whatever other ancillary crap they manufacture for promotions. Seems like a massive waste of time and money....what was wrong with being known as SCI FI? Guess I don't understand how it could be considered a "success" when there wasn't anything wrong in the 1st place. Just imho.
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The movie, the plan was not what I was expecting, it was boring. The old series had the light ship and the Lords of Kobol. If the movie was a series of flashbacks about how starbuck died and was resurected by the Lords of Kobol and turned into an angel on the light ship then that would not be boring and would harken back to the old mythos of the original series. It would also have shown that the writers had some amount of imagination.
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I have a secret to tell you. From one godless monkey to another: up until the point that God actually proved to be real in the BSG universe, I really enjoyed the religious aspects of the show. I found it fascinating that a race of machines could have a monotheistic culture and that the human race was polytheistic. It was not lost on me either that the monotheistic culture waged their own form of ethnic cleansing upon the religiously misguided humans. Be that as it may, what really pulled me in was the process of mulling over how a race of machines could find religion in the first place, and secondly, why the humans were polytheistic. I certainly didn’t expect that the war they were fighting was a conflict waged by proxy, with Cylons and humans as mere puppets, with Almighty God on one side pulling His strings and the six gods on the other side pulling theirs. I knew I wasn’t watching a story akin to the Iliad. I could tell that the story was driven by the characters who were actually onstage—not by God or the gods. To think otherwise would have been downright foolish.
I am only half the fool, it turns out. Understand though: I am not the fool because I was wrong. I am the fool because I thought RDM & Co. were honest brokers. Silly me. I believe it was John Joseph Adams, one of Tor.com’s bloggers and member of the BSG Roundtable, that succinctly said, “Ronald D. Moore is dead to me.”
Actually, it’s worse. His characters are dead. All of them. They’ve been gutted, fileted, and hung out to dry. Their eviscerated husks are nothing more than bitter memories of what could’ve and should’ve been. This is what happens when writers run away from their own story, when they forego the most basic rule of writing: don’t lie to your audience. Don’t dupe them. Don’t you dare take their intelligence and treat it like toilet paper. Don’t. You. Dare.
But they did.
You know what a deus ex machina is—even if you’re unfamiliar with the term. It’s when some cheesy plot device comes out of nowhere to solve all the plot problems of the story, rendering useless all the previous plot struggles that had come before it. Remember the TV show, Dallas? Bobby Ewing was dead, right? Wrong! It was all a dream! It was a dream! Some stupid moron had to have a dream in order to bring Bobby back. Science fiction doesn’t have to use dreams though, because we have way-cool high tech devices like nanotechnology, and AI—but in BSG’s case, they couldn’t even do that. They went to God Himself. Pah!
For those of you who respectfully disagree with the notion that God suddenly came out of the blue, that Head Six (Baltar’s seemingly imaginary friend) was somehow adequate foreshadowing that God really was at hand, my question is this: how? A predictive Head Six (who claimed she was an angel) was no more a hint of God’s true existence than the predictive Oracle of Pithia was for the actual existence of the six gods. They both felt mystical, yes; they both felt supernatural, yes; but there was nothing about these two parallel story lines that couldn’t be explained by the elements that had already been introduced in the story.
Hence, what we have here folks—God’s master plan brought to you by those two ravishingly good looking angels—is a classic deus ex machina. And a huge one at that. As H.G. Wells himself said regarding the deus ex machina, “If anything is possible, then nothing is interesting.”
Well, with God, anything can happen.
But you know what? Anything can happen in fiction, too. God could’ve been in this sci-fi story without it having to be a deus ex machina; God can be in any science fiction story as long as it’s structured properly.
Ah, there’s the rub. Structure.
You see, deus ex machinas come in all shapes and sizes. Some are annoying. Others are downright destructive. The annoying ones tend to be one or two steps beyond the interior logic of the narrative; but the devastating ones literally transform the inherent structure of the story—and that’s exactly what RDM & Co. did to BSG. They destroyed their own story.
If you don’t quite yet see what I mean, well, believe me, you’re not alone because I know damn well that RDM & Co. are absolutely clueless. This is why I’m going to address the mini-lecture to them since they’re the ones who are responsible for this fiasco.
Note to BSG writing staff: ever heard of a character story? Well, if you haven’t, then I suggest you watch your own TV show for the last four seasons up until the very last hour of the finale—because that’s exactly what you guys had been writing up until God showed up to save the day. Ever heard of an idea story? Hint: watch the last hour of the finale that you wretched souls vomited upon us and that is precisely what an idea story is. These are two different story forms which make completely different demands upon character and plot—but don’t take my word for it. Orson Scott Card elucidated upon these story types in his how-to book, Characters & Viewpoint.
BSG’s main characters were fully realized, breathing human beings—steeped in dire conflict, both internally and externally, all of whom were suffused with the desire and a willingness to change not only their station in life, but themselves. Ergo: a character story. An idea story is cut from a different cloth. It is meant to emphasize an idea, not a character or characters—in fact, the idea itself is the main character, and everyone else its subject. The characters serve as the idea’s vehicle, its agent. They must act on its behalf. Sure, the characters are determined; sure, they are idiosyncratic, but they are also two-dimensional because the idea itself must be fully explored. Characters following God’s master plan is a perfect idea story. In fact, characters following any master plan is an idea story.
Remember Isaac Asimov? He wrote idea stories. He wrote great ones, like, say, the Foundation series. Psychohistory was the idea. Psychohistory was the main character. Psychohistory was also a plan; a plan of cosmic reach, of God-like reach, sweeping across the ages to help mitigate the devastating effects of the fall of the Galactic Empire.
The key here is not that Asimov wrote a cool idea story. The key is that he constructed the story in a manner so as to inform the reader that it was an idea story. This is what competent writers do. To wit: Asimov introduces Hari Seldon (the inventor of psychohistory) and then unceremoniously leaves him behind. Because, you know, there’s a story to tell, and it sure ain’t about Hari. The narrative leaps forward in time in order to prove out the progress of the plan. New characters are introduced while previous ones fade away. It becomes pretty clear fairly quickly that Asimov doesn’t want you to get attached to his characters—he wants you to get attached to his idea. When he actually does spend some time with his characters they are necessarily clever and resourceful, but they are also necessarily two-dimensional (determined with a goal). They are never ever a threat to upstage the much more fascinating and complex main character of psychohistory.
So yes: fiction is the art of the lie, but you have to be upfront and honest about the nature of your lie; and once you have the reader’s (or audience’s) trust, you are then honor-bound to hold true to the story’s form—all the way through to its end. Let me repeat: THE STORY MUST HOLD TRUE TO ITS FORM ALL THE WAY THROUGH TO ITS END.
And that’s where BSG blew it. By radically—and suddenly—shifting the story’s emphasis from character to idea RDM & Co. not only violated the tacit agreement between storyteller and fan, but they exploded the internal engine that had been propelling BSG forward since its inception: its characters. This is not only a betrayal to the fans, mind you. This is a betrayal to the art of fiction. Look, the hard truth about fiction is this: form follows emphasis, yes; but expectation follows form. Character stories are resolved by their main characters—they themselves are the agents of their own change. Period. That’s the expectation. End of story. Therefore, I watched with boiling blood as some of the most fully realized sci-fi characters of all time, characters that I surely thought were on the verge of determining their own fate, suddenly became subservient to God’s master plan. Suddenly all their free will coagulated into an ugly red herring. All their angst, inner conflict and hard decision making suddenly lost all relevant meaning—the meaning that comes when a character affects change and he/she is ultimately the one who is responsible for it.
Folks, what I watched wasn’t the art of creating fiction. What I watched was the art of dismantling it.
As the final hour excruciatingly limped towards its end, one unbelievable plot point proceeded to follow the next: the centurions departed to find their own destiny; everyone disavowed technology; everyone spread out over the globe so they could starve to death. It was surreal. If BSG had still been an inkling of its former self, those 3 key decisions alone would have fueled enough conflict to justify 3 more seasons of the show. Instead, our tragically hollowed out characters effortlessly made their decisions and everyone else didn’t even blink; they simply followed en masse, like a hive mind, or worker bees, dutifully serving the (cockamamie) plan.
Then it got worse.
The story launched itself 150,000 years into the future. It was clumsy and jarring, but really, what else were the writers supposed to do? They had an idea story on their hands, and like Asimov’s Foundation series, they had to jump the narrative forward in order to show the fruit of God’s labor.
Which is us, of course. We are the fruit of God’s labor, and that leaves us with one last nugget to choke on: Hera. Ah, yes, precious Hera. She is our mitochondrial Eve. She was half human and half Cylon—and that has truly been our salvation, has it not? For let’s not forget, the Cylon god proved to be the one true God. And while we, as Hera’s descendants, have developed throughout the ages, building vast empires and constructing tall cities, we have obviously learned to embrace our inner machine, and in so doing, we have embraced the grace of God. For today, God is worshipped by over 2 billion people.
Wow. Maybe it’s time for the centurions to come back, don’t you think? We could all sing “Kumbaya.”
Let me move on.
Say what you will about Battlestar Galactica, whether you want to marvel at its gritty realism, its amazing action sequences, special effects, its top-notch acting and directing, or its inspired musical score—the heart and soul of the show was its characters. Yet no longer. Just like Kara, their very souls have popped out of existence, fully dissipated within the skeletal remains of a once potent character story. For what we have left is nothing more than an empty grasp of lost possibilities, that never-ending guessing game of the coulda and shoulda beens. Because in fiction, there’s a good way to lie and there’s a bad way to lie, and if you ask me, someone ought to develop a polygraph test for the Ronald D. Moores of the world—to keep writers like him honest—so we can keep vivid and fully realized characters true to form, to watch them live and die in the manner by which their world was built: in character.
So say we all. -
Jan 29, 2010 7:56:48 PM CST
Yanno... it wasn't the Angels, religion that sunk BSG in the end
by tomonicker
It was the unsatifying, clunky hamfisted way it was handled. And the realization that the Cylons were a bunch of wankers, at least the flesy ones... I think the metal ones had the right idea; let's blow this joint. Caprica better have a fucking plan- a real one.
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You got to be kidding me! It's a testament that shit floats that Entourage is still on. *heh, heh*
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Great article. I think the ending of BSG should have lasted a whole season, to flesh out the arc. JMS of B5 should have been hired as well to smooth out the rough edges.
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I'm liking Caprica a lot. Just still trying to figure out in my head how this gels with the 13th Colony already being skinjobs. Somehow I get the feeling the creators of the show are trying to figure it out too.
Still, I am enjoying what I've seen so far. -
Jan 29, 2010 8:55:30 PM CST
Agreed Fareal. The BSG finale really did poison all of BSG...
by happyhamster
It's tough to watch even some of the best episodes knowing how bad the "payoff is". And I always say "finale", but really the last half of the last season sucked.
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That said. It's still better than all those crappy monster and disaster movies SyFy runs. Why? Why? Would rather have reruns of Space 1999, Lost in Space and any other Science Fiction or Fantasy shows going back decades. Those monster and disaster flicks are awful and bring to mind 'straight to video' because that's what you do - shut off SyFy and put on a video.
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that memorial could've gone better. Sure that won't be very good for Greystone stock.
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and agnostics, F.U.? Only wussies use the term hater by the way - a coward's way out of any discourse. Be better than that.
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I didn't really have any problem with the finale of BSG, except for the silly robot montage during the closing credits. I think that Inhead Six and Inhead Baltar had to stay in those forms when they flashed forward to our time. How would you know they were the same beings otherwise?And the big line that sticks out to me is when Inhead Six mentions "God" and Inhead Baltar says, "You know it hates when it's called that," which to me, implied that it was another intelligence merely referred to as "God" by us. As someone who does not believe in any of the Judeo-Christian nonsense, but has always realized that there's so much about the universe we will never understand, simply because we won't ever have time to discover it all, I liked that.
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has called Caprica like watching the Cylon Bible being written.
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... from people who actually know what the hell they're talking about: http://tinyurl.com/yl8ydpd
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I'm there.The end of BSG is indeed an abortion, yet I'll have fun with this.You know, new places.
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yes, sir, I think we are more aligned than not.fight em until we can't!cheers
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I'm not hating this. It shows promise. I need a couple more episodes at LEAST to make a decision.
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Someone please tell me the plot/story of tonight's episode, because I'll be damned if it had one at all.
It's not that the show isn't interesting but god damn is it ever slow. -
I took Caprica off my DVR recording list... gheezus it's just too damn boring.
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You understood nothing about the show - you missed every bit about the mythology, you missed the entire bit about the Cylon God being just "one of the Lords of Kobol who was jealous" you discount the Lords of Kobol and what they were and that aspect of the plot (I suspect they are very much like the "Vorlons" of Babylon 5). If you were actually paying attention you could have seen that ending coming from Season One on. It ended EXACTLY like I knew it was without one surprise for me. Why? Because I have a frakkin IQ over 120 and because I paid attention. My God... don't read LOTR you might walk away thinking that Tolkien was a nature hater!
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i seriously thought that the saying "all this has happened before" would really come into play in the final but it didn't. What I'd kind of presumed would happen is that it'd turn out that they were all cylons distilled down from kobol and that god and the plan were actually hard coded programming in all of us to keep repaeting the same story over and over. The final 5 should've been 5 models that would automatically activate once they reached a certain point in the journey so that they could explain everything and start the cycle over and starbuck should have been the "satnav" if you will, her programming was to get us to the end of the journey and that's why she was special.They'd been trying to say how humans and cylons weren't that different all through out the show, imagine how powerful it would've been to find out that we'd been fighting each other for nothing and that all of this was just a way to keep perpetuating the cylon race. All the weird things and visions and strange occurances like the inheads and the song that the final 5 hear would've been explained and wrapped up for us! instead we get an ending that just decided to go " hey, yanno what....you decide what you think really happened because we can't explain this shit!"
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I've ever seen in a show.
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The daughter is overconfident, the friend is her insecure opposite. The dad is torn between ego and parental duty. The other dad is CRAZY. The mom is the biggest mess of them all. Her blind eye is so far seperated from reality that she may be the cause of the whole Cylon revolution.
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How are they ever going to fake other naughty words?
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That was a ridiculous move. And having that lawyer guy voice what we were all thinking ("Can't believe every single living person is going for this". Actually, yeah, concidering all the mutinies you've had over far less) does not make it right. They had to resolve the issue of what happened to their technology. Simple. Adama and the President could have decided that they cannot interfer with the development of this Earth's primitive culture of humans. Having decided this, they give the people of the fleet the option of either staying on earth without all of their technology, or remaining with the fleet which will once again venture in to space in search of an uninhabited planet. They could even return to New Caprica, seeing as Cavil is no longer a danger. And they have Earth's address, so they can return there should they need any supplies or what not. Would make a whole lot of sense. It would explain how our culture was influenced by their's because some of them settled here, without the need to destroy the fleet. Adama would remain on earth with the dying Roselyn, and Lee would command what is left of the fleet in the search for a home where they can rebuild their cities. The finale would have us ponder who is better off, the people that stayed and gave up their machines, or those that refused to do so. It would also allow for future projects, movies or otherwise, looking at what befell those that remained with the fleet.
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..Bothered me a lot more than the Deus Ex Machina resolution. As somebody said, religion was always a part of the show. It the lapse of logic and the disregard for the preservation of their entire culture that pissed me off. As I said in my last post, if they thought about it, there was no need to destroy the fleet. Ridiculous.
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But you all seem to be getting way over upset about somebody elses baby. Seems like the plan was set up long ago, but blinding yourself to it only sets up greater disappointment. Guess the complainers should have paid attention better. I have a feeling that too many people will be longing for disappointment for LOST as well. Being disappointed by disappointment might just be theraputic.
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Watch the fucking show, or shut the fuck up.
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better than the premiere's .4? keep in mind theres a +/- of .2, so you get a .2 just by having static on the air..
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The way people go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on relentlessly about "why did they destroy the fleet" in this constant bellyaching high pitched whining drone it makes me wonder that you all must have rusted out 1975 pinto's in your driveways. I mean WHO GIVES A FRAKK about several dozen rusted out falling apart old beaten up ships that would do nothing but possibly attract the last thousand or so sulking pissed off Cavils floating around the galaxy. Seriously "We found Paradise but we just can't live in it because we can't lose those FRAKKING OLD CRAPPY SHIPS!" OMG OMG Not the broken old ships! Don't destroy those! Stay out of the frakking fresh air and good green grass and fresh unpolluted water were we can frolic in the garden of eden... because WE WANT THOSE OLD MUSTY SHIPS! The problem with these forums is it's full of mush brained city kids who've been raised on video games. Maybe your parents should have made you play outside once in awhile. I mean holy crap...
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When you break your leg tipping over cows, you go to a HOSPITAL, not uncle Jeb's. The "bellyaching" is about abandoning life saving tech. If you pulled your finger out of your cousin for awhile, you'd get that.
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...I would have said that more politely... ...but yeah. Let's see, assuming it was earth at the time that our "lucy" lived... That would have been mid to late pliocene, more or less. Let's see, depending precisely where in this garden of eden our survivors wandered you would have had dogs the size of lions with teeth that ground bones, the last surviving species of terror birds, the ever popular saber-toothed cats, primitive constrictors close to forty feet in length...well you get the point. That's not counting any of the giant herbivores one could run afoul of, from ground sloths to my favorite, glyptodonts. Of course, then there are those ancient hominids. Oh, and diseases to which these newcomers would have no built-in immunity. So you sure wouldn't want to spoil beautiful pristine nature with any technology, because none of that stuff's going to bother you. Just drink great big gulps of that sweet, unpolluted water filled with unknown parasites and bacteria. And trial and error is a great way to find out which plants in your garden of eden might be deadly. And certainly split up in groups of ten or five with no technology with which to communicate with each other, because you'll never hurt yourself while trying to build a shelter or fall off a ledge, or get gored by that pliocene pig with tusks longer than your hand while out gathering your possibly poisonous roots for dinner. And on and on and on, ad nauseum. Seriously, Zedul, have you ever been outside? Or, you know, read a book while you were in? Sorry, Billy, maybe I wouldn't have been more polite after all.
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Long but otherwise worthwhile and entertaining post. Use "" (remove spaces before and after the "p") to add paragraphs.
Yup...Deux Ex Machina to the max. Guess God actually WANTED tens of billions of colonists to die in a Cylon holocaust, eh? But don't worry folks...it's all good! -
"Seriously, Zedul, have you ever been outside? Or, you know, read a book while you were in?"
I recommend a viewing (followed by a fact-check on Wikipedia for the REAL story of Christopher McCandless) of INTO THE WILD, about a similarly idealistic nitwit who's love of nature earns him a lonely, painful death. Then there's GRIZZLY MAN... -
should have ended, with the shot of Hera (looking towards a future) or a shot of Adama (reflecting on the journey).
For me the robot montage really was not only unnecessary but cheapened the series, I would be suprised if RDM and the gang didn't look back at that in a few years time, cringe and shake their heads. -
Jan 30, 2010 5:51:34 PM CST
There was nothing "life saving" about the Fleet anymore.
by mr. nice gaius
That was the whole point of abandoning it. The people and the ships had reached their limits. Lest you forget, the Galactica was broken, beaten up beyond repair, and no longer capable of making an FTL jump. So, unless you think they were capable of building a new shipyard with which to build a new Battlestar, then you can clearly see how they had finally reached the end of the line with regards to carrying on in space.
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much of this series I like so far. The Adama/Mafia aspects... the Greystone military industrial complex stuff. But the kids (as usual in films and TV series) are problematic for me. I have very little interest in teen angst stories - past, present, future or even in an alternate past. Dull and overwrought.
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I guess you're right. When a hospital runs out of supplies, or is worn out you chuck it. Who needs surgical bays, X ray machines, french fry lamps for newborns, or electricity for that mater. I got a fun idea, let's discover a cure for our diseases all over again! Should be a hoot.
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...brain fart, there. It wouldn't have been around the time of Lucy. It would have been around the time of mitochondrial eve. Obviously. So much harder times in the garden of eden. That would have been about 200,000 years ago. Which means the Wolstonian ice age (hardly the worst, but considering the terrain where the survivors landed and the light baggage we see them taking along...well, yikes). So you've got smilodons, dire wolves, cave bears, and the biggest lions in the evolutionary record. Plus a full range of poisonous snakes, which the survivors would have surely encountered. So yeah, even worse. Much larder and more specialized predators than in the pliocene...yuck much more aggressive hyenas. More diseases already attuned for their physiology, a much more challenging climate...but yeah, they didn't need anything off those ships.
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...I hate to disagree with you but man... The raw resources in the Galactica, let alone all of their ships, even if not a single electronic element was functioning, represented a treasure trove for the survivors. Your argument would be the same as if the survivors of a ship wreck said "well, hell, that boat's got a hole in it, and we sure ain't building no shipyard here." Think back over the course of the series. Think about the careers the survivors had. Now think of them trekking into a hostile, unknown environment (sorry, frolicking in the garden of eden) with the tiny amount of equipment you saw them carting away. And Apollo suggested, and everyone agreed, to doing this. Surviving all they had survived to absolutely commit cultural suicide and most likely commit suicide of a far more personal nature. Believe me, based on what we saw more survivors died in their first year in the garden of eden than had during their entire flight from the cylons. To pretend anything else is just to ignore the realities of...hell, not mostly urban dwelling, technologically dependent humans surviving in small groups in an environment filled with megafauna predators, new pathogens to which they would have no natural defenses and unfamiliar flora...but the same number of randomly selected people, toting a similar amount of gear banished to say the Amazon river basin or the South Nahanni region of Alaska right now, today.
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Go back to Caprica, and bring home some pizzas.
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...yeah, I've seen them both. It creeps me out to even think about Grizzly Man. McCandless is a slightly different matter (although by the way, here was a guy who was in great physical condition, who'd had experience living in the wild, found a nice abandoned bus to live in, probably scavenged for food in abandoned cabins, and was relatively close to areas of current human habitation...who died of starvation in the woods). I think he was less of a ditzy idealist than someone who just couldn't coexist with his fellow humans. Something in his youth had just broken his connections with the rest of us. Hard as it is to say, he maybe arrived at the best sort of end he was going to.
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Hick? Ok since we are being an insolent little punk here it is. Sorry kid I've spent most of my life building shit that goes out in space for REAL not on your Nintendo screen... What life saving tech? I mean really they had almost nothing left that they could not have been put in a backpack - their ships were falling apart and they were unable to guard the food and supplies they had from criminals and cowards - not to mention the element that had a hate on for the Cylons so bad they didn't want them to "upgrade" their ships. Getting them down on the planet in nature and separating them up was the only way to fly. That way the "sons of Aries" and crap could go off and live on their own little continent and eat each other alive for a change. If you had a A BRAIN in your head and watched the damn show at all who you could see that everyone needed to be broken up and reset. And hey man, just 200 years ago not only wasn't there any "life saving tech" but doctors were sucking peoples blood out whenever they got a fever and somehow the human race thrived anyway. Just because you are candy ass know-nothing who doesn't even have the attention span to follow the plot elements of a TV show doesn't mean that all human beings are as stupid as you and couldn't survive out in the woods.
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Was my post the only one you bothered to read? Others have schooled you far more eloquently than I, "rocket scientist".
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...you build craft that go into space... ...and you believe that there was nothing on the ships of the Galactica fleet that would have been valuable in ensuring the survival of the survivors. That's just adorable.
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Agreed. My favorite passage from the Wikipedia article:
"McCandless has been a polarizing figure ever since his story first broke in 1992. Because he chose not to bring a map and a compass (items which most people in the same situation would have considered essential), McCandless was completely unaware that a hand-operated tram crossed the otherwise impassable river 1/4 mile from where he attempted to cross. Had McCandless known this, he could easily have saved his own life. Additionally, there were cabins stocked with emergency supplies within a few miles of the bus, although they had been vandalized and all the supplies were spoiled, possibly by McCandless, as detailed in Lamothe's documentary. Yet Ken Kehrer, chief ranger for Denali National Park, denied that McCandless was considered a vandalism suspect by the National Park Service. The most charitable view among McCandless's detractors is that he was somewhat lacking in basic common sense, i.e., venturing into a wilderness area on his own without adequate planning, preparation, and supplies was almost guaranteed to end in disaster."
Long story short, learning on the fly in the wilderness is a great way to turn up a corpse. -
...Was how utterly terrible it was, on so many levels. The way it rushed to its optimistic conclusion, the use of one of the most massive Deus Ex Machinas in TV history, the way it completely abandoned major plot elements (the survivors disputed EVERYTHING while in the fleet, but readily climbed aboard the "back to nature" train on Earth...oh, and "Bye, bye Centurions! Please don't try to exterminate us again, okay? Please?"), directly or indirectly plagiarizing the end of THE RESTAURANT AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE...
In the same way that THE X-FILES reinforced the need for TV dramas to go out on a high note and not linger around like a fart in an elevator, BSG will hopefully set the new precedent of actually planning ahead of time what the fuck your show's ending will be as opposed to making it up as you go along. And keeping your hippie, tree-hugging sensibilities to yourself.
Hopefully. -
"the survivors disputed EVERYTHING while in the fleet, but readily climbed aboard the "back to nature" train on Earth...oh, and "Bye, bye Centurions! Please don't try to exterminate us again, okay? Please?" I mentioned this as well, these lapses in logic were far more annoying to me than the "God sorts it all out" plot device. There is no way everybody agreed to this, and the writers KNOW this, which is why they have the lawyer character say what we are all thinking, and having Apollo give us the totally unsatisfactory answer of "never underestimate peoples desire for a fresh start" or something lame to that effect. Please, insult my intelligence some more why don't you.
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Yer a dick
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Still, I watched and loved most of BSG.Something you didn't bother to do, but were happy to shoot your mouth off anyway.
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.....the BSG finale; you still gotta admit, that that Group marriage deal that the milfilicious British former teacher or Nun of Zoe's had was a pretty kinky thing. I enjoyed this episode a whole lot more than the Pilot; less time spent in people's heads and virtual worlds might have something to do with it. And the Zoe-Cylon juxtaposition was pretty nice too for her scenes - the actress playing her is pretty good at doing the trapped in someone else's body bit. It's funny, though, just how much Caprica really resembles a matte-painted Vancouver. But the 1940's retro-look fashion sense and style that they had for everything from clothes to even the microphones was a really nice touch. I also (surprisingly) like the fact that they are not playing up the space travelling angle and nature of the Capricans,even though it's obvious that they are a space-faring people (after all, the Tauran immigrants are from another planet or Colony). It kept the story more grounded and closer to relate to from where we are watching as 21st Century humans. Lastly, I got quite a kick out of watching career military man and flight jock Bill Adama, getting mafia training from his Cosa Nostra uncle. This series could work really well, if they handle it properly and try not to jam too much in, or to do too many things at once, like they did with the pilot.
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Having arrived on earth, if they really were in desperate need of tech to prevent a devastating human event, there's always the return of Starbuck and her resurrecting Viper to save the day.Remember, she/that is how they found Earth to begin with.
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Here's a list of stuff that's not helping: Unnecessary shaky-cam, tedious Zoe/Cylon back and forth, idiotic "my daughter might have killed your kids" speech, and the strained mystery of why Zoe/Cylon is "special". A hint that Daddy Adama might have an "in head" daughter was cute.
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i CAN'T BELEVE HOW BORRNG THIS SHOW IS. 2 MUCH TALKING AND CHARCTER DEVLPOMINT!!! i CAN'T RELTE TO PEEPLE WHO R NOT STEREOTYPICAL SCIFI ARCHTYPES. i WANTS TO SEE MORR SPOLSIONS AND PEEPLE WITH LZERS GUNS. OMG PLZ CANCEL, SYFY CHANNUL. THX.
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The world they've created is interesting to watch even though I find the story incoherent.
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"Please, insult my intelligence some more why don't you."
No doubt. Jane Espenson sucks, and before anyone gets too attached to the show, she's the designated "showrunner" (Wikipedia again) once the first season's half over. Doesn't bode well.
Bodes pretty shitty, actually... -
Damned itchy trigger finger...
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The ending of Battlestar Galactica was great. It reminded me of the work of Sitchen and the 12th planet. I can't think of a better way to end the series. It was how I was hoping the show would end. On the other hand Galactica 1984 was what I was fearing. The reason the colonies destroyed technology was because they grew tired of war and wanted to start a new life, a sort of garden of eden.
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long time no talkback
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My "Hybrid Theory" was so spot on correct, so eloquenty elaborated,,, that they had to, in fact, re-write the entire final seasons and re-assign the final five!!!! Else face, they thought, huge lawsuits for stealing my brilliant ideas; I know RJM reads these talkbacks for writing and plotting tips, same as Whedon does. In fact, they often meet at each others' homes to read, the talkbacks, together.!!!Hadn't seen any mediamessiah delusional posts of grandeur lately--thought I'd give it a go. (!!!???!!!)
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O RLY?
www.tinyurl.com/bsgsux -
Kudos. What you theorized was better than the shit that wound up on the small screen.
The fans usually have a better idea of how to end a show than the writers...I feel for the fans of LOST, who are probably about to learn the same lesson we dopey frackers did... -
I wasn't paying attention at the time but I'm sure he said he used to chat up boys.
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The it happened before it will happen again motto meant to me that BSG was about humanity being destroyed by the Cylons and then given a chance by the Gods to go back in time and start all over. FOr example the original BSG in the 70's was the first time with the old looking cylons. The survivors probably kept the ships and humanity evolved quicker but at the end they still made cylons (more advanced looking this time) and the end result was the same so the Gods sent them back in time again and again. In every cycle we got more advanced cylons culminating in the skin jobs. And in every cycle "things" were left hidden providing clues to the renewed humans from the previous humans before going back in time. Eventually in this new version of BSG the cycle appears to be finally broken because the survivors decided to destroy the ships and Hera survived. So was this what BSG was about? or did I imagine it?
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Was that it IS happening again, in our time, now.
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Great to see you in TB land -- as always!
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Heck, drama is fine, nothing wrong with the actors too. But it's boring. I don't like the Summer Glau copycat Zoe though. Want to bet on a romantic filler or two starring one of the two research guys and Terminatrix? Uh oh... perhaps it'll run a season, but I doubt I'll finish it myself.
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Which is another reason I won't be watching CAPRICA...its writers, like BSG before, seem to be promoting some weird, neo-Luddite religious bunk.
I don't have a problem with a writer suggesting that a post-Singularity world might not be a friendly place for humans (THE TERMINATOR and THE MATRIX are two excellent examples I really dig), but to wrap up that message in some kind of quasi-religious hokum that is never challenged or explained I find lazy and more than a little offensive.
It's a total writer's cop-out: If God doesn't want us to make thinking machines under penalty of near-extinction, then why did He make us little monkeys so clever with tools? To steal a quote from Douglas Adams, Who Is This God Person Anyway? Rather than cringe beneath this invisible tyrant's whip (as the colonists apparently did, by giving up technology on Earth), shouldn't the humans find a way to challenge His ruthless edict? As a premise, it raises more questions than answers, and winds up making the show's characters look cowering and weak in surrendering to it. -
for season 8.
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Now I am sucked into revisiting the carnage of BSG's endgame via that link and beyond!!! I'm not going to rant too much like AsimovLives, but as with BSG, Heroes, and ST '09- the "Buyer's Remorse" Effect is a subtle slow poison, but it eventually kills the great slack these were given till all that remains is the realization of the shit that you willingly gave a pass to.
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I'm still shocked by the utter lack of grieving by all 3 Greystones. WTF is with that.
And really I'm not buying it that he would put her into a cylon body right off the bat. Surely he would have had a test bed for his CPU that he would have used. Lame. I'll keep watching the show, but this isn't starting off half as good as BSG did. I am so afraid this will turn int a typical Canadian drama... too subtle.. too much talking.
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