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‘This Is Where It Gets Interesting!!’ Friday Brings The End Of Whedon’s DOLLHOUSE!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
What do you imagine Alpha’s been up to for the last decade? I’d wager he’s been catching up on his reading!
The other “Dollhouse” episode with the word “Epitaph” in it
was pretty rad! Fox says of tonight’s series finale:
EPITAPH TWO: RETURN
Written by Maurissa Tancharoen & Jed Whedon (“Epitaph One,” “Meet Jane Doe,” “The Attic”) & Andrew Chambliss (“Meet Jane Doe,” “Stop Loss”).
Picking up from the events depicted in "Epitaph 1," the "lost" episode of DOLLHOUSE, and set in the year 2020, Echo and her surviving Dollhouse crew attempt to restore order to a devastating future world before mankind is eliminated. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic; Alan Tudyk as Alpha; Adair Tishler as Caroline; Maurissa Tancharoen as Kilo; Felicia Day as Mag; Zack Ward as Zone; Nate Dushku as Clive; Noah Harpster as Matthew; Christian Monzon as Romeo; Brandon Dieter as T.
RIP Victims of the Fox Friday Death Slot:
The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. (1993)
MANTIS (1994)
Strange Luck (1995)
VR.5 (1995)
Sliders (1996)
Millennium (1996)
The Visitor (1997)
Harsh Realm (1999)
Brimstone (1999)
Freakylinks (2000)
Dark Angel (2000)
The Lone Gunmen (2001)
John Doe (2003)
Firefly (2003)
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (2008)
Dollhouse (2010)
Note the earlier time:
8 p.m. Friday. Fox.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
$7.99 Kubrick’s Masterpiece on Blu-ray!!
$5.99 Blu-ray!! = Cheaper Than Used!!
Written by Maurissa Tancharoen & Jed Whedon (“Epitaph One,” “Meet Jane Doe,” “The Attic”) & Andrew Chambliss (“Meet Jane Doe,” “Stop Loss”).
Picking up from the events depicted in "Epitaph 1," the "lost" episode of DOLLHOUSE, and set in the year 2020, Echo and her surviving Dollhouse crew attempt to restore order to a devastating future world before mankind is eliminated. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic; Alan Tudyk as Alpha; Adair Tishler as Caroline; Maurissa Tancharoen as Kilo; Felicia Day as Mag; Zack Ward as Zone; Nate Dushku as Clive; Noah Harpster as Matthew; Christian Monzon as Romeo; Brandon Dieter as T.
$7.99 Kubrick’s Masterpiece on Blu-ray!!
$5.99 Blu-ray!! = Cheaper Than Used!!
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On this last one ever
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This show in the last season has become must watch TV.
Thanks to the whole cast and crew for providing us with great entertainment.
Another one cut short far too soon. -
and Better off Ted is next. All my favorite shows are getting canceled. :(
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Stuck with it, despite the frenzied borderline-nonsensical last half of the second season (hello Mr. Denisof, and good bye). But the abrupt and absurd turn Boyd's character took has ruined the show for me. Silly characterization, silly reactions, silly all around. It seems strange to want to get up and leave a film ten minutes from the finish, but here we are.
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know wonder it was canceled.
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I gave up about a third into this season and I caught E1 at a friends place, but I'm curious if this ep will make much sense to anyone who hasn't seen the lost episode.
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While he is not the worst writer out there he is no where near the best or in the top ten.################################# Dollhouse was a mediocre show that was lucky it got 2 seasons carried by an actress who did not have the range to play a charachter of Multiple personalties.####################################### As for Whedons writing in general he is no where near as great as fanboys make him out to be he will consistently raise an issue then cop out and drop it while ignoring any continuity in favour of a moment and with self indulgent tendancy towards charachters he likes giving them free passes from interesting emtional drama in favour of banal statements. See how Willows story turned from one of her own insecurities and control issues in a desire for more power to become Magic= Crack addiction. Or Chosen and Buffy's empowerment spell which only a few episodes before had been a rape metaphor.
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I know you are missed me! Don't say it--I'm a modest man. However, I missed you too!!! Kisses!!!!
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Too distracted by 1988 model Winona to concentrate
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they were giving this away with the daily mail a few weeks back..
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THAT'S a show that deserved more than it got. Peter Horton & John Glover - awesome chemistry! That made the entire show for me. Then, there was Lori Petty! "Dollhouse" got more slack than "Brimstone," and the latter was far superior to the former from the start. Oh well. It's been 11 years, and I'm still annoyed by its cancellation.
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I just don't expect it to be as layered or complex as Epitaph One. They knew anyone watching E1 had access to the other episodes, so they could afford to make it complex. This will just be an episode. And I can't imagine he'll kill all the good guys and have humanity fall apart.
If I was writing it, I'd have all 6 billion (or whatever) people get implanted with Echo's multiple personalities. And then end the show with the entire planets population saying in one voice "Did I fall asleep?" -
I really liked VR5. Interesting concepts and starred a youngish Anthony Stewart Head after his coffee commercials and before his Watcher duties on Buffy.I wish VR5 would come out on DVD. There were fans...
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Nice idea for the ending of the show, very Twilight Zone-y. I for one, always wanted them to tie the end of the show in with the beginning scene of Serenity, where we are informed that the Blue Sun Corporation was actually born of Rossum Corporation, and that the facility that River is in...at the start of the film, is actually a Dollhouse, in the far off future.
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Firefly and Dollhouse. To me, that smacks of the same thinking as people who looked at The Rockford Files and said "He's really Maverick, he just can't tell anyone. But we all know he's Maverick"
Or the people who hoped that Echo was really Faith, and her Slayer powers were what made her a special type of Doll.
I don't know why some viewers seem to feel the need to link multiple shows together. It's not done very often, and even then, it rarely ever works. -
...apparently, Joss is using the show, Dollhouse, to complete his Serenity/Firefly storyline, metaphorically speaking, he seems to be exploring strangely similar story threads, albeit, in a different timeline, and different character names, and different locations. Many writer/creators tend to do that when they experience a premature ending for one of their properties, they use those unused story threads elsewhere in the form of new works.
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I've always found your understanding of the themes being explored in Dollhouse to be somewhat skewed at the best of times.
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However, I find open debate to be admirable and rightly advised...on any, and all, given subject matters.
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But I called the echo as a cure explanation weeks ago (self satisfied grin). Looking forward to the end and for god sakes Joss don't let Fox do your next show or put it on on a friday!
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I agree about Brimstone and have always thought it would make a great movie. Did they ever do a comic of it? That would be a great idea too, to finish off the story.
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means last Media Messiah off-base rambling ever. Its a shame MM, as your musings are quite er...amusing. Anyway, Dollhouse followed up a bad first half of season 1 with a good half, and then followed up that with a great 2nd season, and then kind of shit the bed with the Boyd reveal. Hopefully, somehow this episode will give us further insight into crazy-Boyd, because it at this point his actions throughout the series make little to no sense.
Excited for this though -
off beat ramblings, and open letters to studios and what not. I'm not sure anything can top the legendary posts of his past though. They smacked of genuine lunacy, and any attempt to deliver something crazier would only come across as a deliberate (and fake) attempt.
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I will never forget his quest to find "Reggie" bars. Also, I won't follow Media's Firefly/Serenity/Dollhouse posit, since Firefly is clearly linkable to Alien Resurrection, and that movie was a turd best forgotten.
While I found Dollhouse truly mediocre, it did keep Eliza working, and it introduced the guy who plays Victor to a wider audience (both good things). On to bigger and better Whedon! -
Enver was an amazing find, truly great actor and a star in the making, his topher was scarily real!
Has to do an Alexander Siddiq though and change that name! -
MapMan: That there were.
Had to buy a fan made set to watch the series again. http://bit.ly/cq6CUR
Even by today's standards, those VR effects still looks kinda cool. -
They could have just wrapped everything up last week no? Destroyed the machines, beat the bad guys, create a vaccine/cure that prevents mind wipes, etc, it was all there last week. Going 10 years into the future to do it all again seems kind of needless. But I'll still catch this off hulu and hope to be wrong.
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for one, Epitaph One showed a dystopian future. Wrapping up "Hollow Men" with a bow tie would not have led to the events in Epitaph One.
Second, for the observant viewer, not everything was resolved last week. How many copies of the Rossum heads are there? How many politicians or industry leaders are already under their control? Etc.. Too many loose ends. -
...for Dollhouse to end on a painful cliffhanger, since T:TSCC fans had to suffer a painful cliffhanger because Fox feared the browncoat revolt and canceled that show instead of Dollhouse!
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...he was still Maverick. He was always Maverick. He's still Maverick now, somewhere up in the sky.
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Two years before gettingt interesting is moronic, here is a hint Mr Whedon, try making your shows interesting from the first episode and maybe you won't get cancelled so often.
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When NBC wanted to bury the original STAR TREK once and for all, they moved it to Friday night and that was all she wrote. At least for several years thereafter. As for DOLLHOUSE? Won't miss it. The fact that the characters start off the series in the pilot by admitting how silly the whole premise is was enough to kill me off it.
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Jan 29, 2010 7:42:03 AM CST
I'll have to check this out after watching SMALLVILLE and CAPRIC
by spyguy
Man, it's weird to actually have choices for TV watching on a Friday night.
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...luck is still the lady that he loves the best.
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For the show to end on that giant stinky turd of an episode would have been a great crime. At least there's one last shot at redemption, although I'm not sure if they can clean up the mess they made with the last ep.
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It wasn't Whedon's fault it wasn't interesting from the start that was Fox's braindead kneejerk reaction to it being such a deep and complex concept. If you watch the original pilot, not the one shown by Fox, you'll see how he really wanted it to be.
Fox shouldn't really call themselves Fox cos they share very few characteristics with the animal, real Foxes are smart, cunning and very creative and resourceful. The only similarity is they are known to unnecessarily slaughter defenseless prey! -
Looking forward to it.
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You can actually see THE exact moment the cash ran out. It was right after the explosion in the corridor when they cut to the cast watching the building door as Echo ran and the building exploded behind her. They couldnt even affoard to show her "exiting" the building. She was just there. Also, NO damage to the building - not even smoke or dust - nothing! They wrapped it up quick after that as no one had enough for the bus fare home and they don't like walking in the dark.
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Acting isn't her thing. She should try waitressing or retail.
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who she's been working with for her whole life, is a dialog coach.
With some proper lessons, she might have been better able to carry a show like Dollhouse. -
I hope to see the cast appearing in other things soon. Gjokaj is amazing! Dushku's not a bad actress, but it's a shame that the series (and show titles) were so focused on her, at the expense of the supporting characters.
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Boooooo, FOX! POOR MOVE.
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if it can feel like a movie with one narrative or if it's it plays like a TV 2-parter.
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http://tinyurl.com/y8uthee
I like this part: "The endless jabby metaphors for your actual life. Let's face it — no other show gave you the tools to cope with your day-to-day existence the way Dollhouse has. I'm only being slightly tongue-in-cheek here. If Buffy The Vampire Slayer was chock full of metaphors for life in high school, then Dollhouse is equally bursting with dark, bittersweet metaphors for adulthood. The show's basic premise reflects the ways in which we all warp our personalities to please the people with power, but there are also tons of metaphors for corporate wage-slavery, political disempowerment and so much more. The Dollhouse clients, with their fundamentally unattainable desires, are the ultimate metaphor for the way we all wish we didn't need the things we need. The story of Sierra and Hamilton Nolan is the most potent representation of the way in which a rapist tries to own his victim that I've ever seen. Topher's penchant for doing ethically indefensible science just to see if it can be done is like a metaphor for our entire world, in the era of climate destruction. We all have our own weird and dangerous secret programming, which can turn us into monsters if the right word or image crops up." -
No more TV, no more 1-second side boob shots, but some real frontal action. Let's see those talents.
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Now that this is the last Talkback for Dollhouse, I can finally reveal that I am Joss Whedon, and all of my previous posts have been a Psi-Ops, in order to boost ratings for the show by creating controversy. What? Too fake of a post for you, you say? Well, I just didn't wish to disappoint you two high fashion divas.
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#followfriday to @dollhouseonfox. ::headesk::
Hee! *nothing* all season except today when the show is over. Der marketing brillance is showing! -
Or that show about gaydar. Where a woman dates 4 dudes and guesses which one is gay.
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And I'm glad I never got invested in a show that was destined for cancellation after only 2 seasons. Sucks for those of you who did, but didn't we all see this coming?
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awesome 2 season show. Some you haters need to grow the fuck up and actually watch shit before ya hate on it. Odyssey 5 was a killer one season show so length has nothing to do with quality. If you missed Dollhouse, you missed one of the best scripted shows of the last two years. Oh well.
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Terrible mistake by Showtime, not renewing that.
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another 2 season show.
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Anyone else find that to be a bit of a rip-off for people watching the live broadcast? Of course, on the flipside, probably 99% of people watching this broadcast already saw the original Epitaph One episode, but still, seems a little bit of a weird way to go out. Story symmetry is good, ripping off your viewing audience is bad. Course, I dl'ed a torrent of "Epitaph One" so what do I know?
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Is it the one Favreau directed?
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not sure its fair to put that one in the list since it lasted a full 3 seasons in that same time slot. sure the show ended before they wanted it to end but Friday wasn't its killer otherwise it wouldn't have gone past Season 1.
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i'm one of those few who's followed the show since day 1 and never seen Epitaph 1 so it'll be interesting to see how good a job they did to make it work regardless.
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You're a rare breed indeed! I'll be interested in your thoughts after, please.
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Sorry about that. I'm looking forward to it though. It has grown on me - I didn't watch at first because I was so opposed to Anni's new padawan, but she has grown on me.
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Hi Felicia! What's a "weilder"??
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the same way, title wise. No "lalalaladeeda" just that awesome swelling of sound over the boom tilt.
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did a blanket signal.
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I just realized that most of this group grew up during the techpocalypse.
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"Must have been a daycare."
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showrunners for the second season. Having the Reaper girls as showrunners this season led to "Instinct" and last weeks incomprehensible episode. There were stinkers in the first season but at least they seemed part of the process of building towards something.
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towards Dominic. Get me a fridge indeed.
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Why would Echo have to speak Russian in front of Topher when he is part of the rebellion?
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wasn't explored more. Damn shame.
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"Because he's funny & mean." If a wee girl that cute likes him, he must be good, right?
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japanese boy. o.0
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So at least she been busy :)
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that the Adelle had the convo with the guy who was shot in the head by Boyd *before* he was shot in the head. Does that make sense?
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"Three buttons came back. Who saw that coming?"
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and that Caroline has it.
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Uninterrupted. Phone unplugged, whiskey poured, yada yada yada. Won't be live blogging it or anything. Will probably want to watch it twice in a row, assuming it's as good as E1 was.
It's been fun, y'all. -
They bluetooth themselves into others without Topher's toys. Good thing they worked so hard last ep to destroy handhelds...heh. Tech evolves though right, ipad?
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What the hell, man. Iz so confuzed.
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Flashbacks are hard.
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"Kids playing with matches....and they burnt the house down."
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Balls the size of grapefruits!
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Nice touch.
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knew a LOT of stuff.
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that Ambrose is checking out new bodies like he would a new car?
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Yeah, not confusing. Hee!
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in E1 in 2019, why is Topher inventing a blanket wipe for Rossum in 2020?
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was cake but Pyria's "we ate those" was icing.
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It was simply a typical low budget us against them sci-fi series.
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"you're...fat." Hee!
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So it's different from a blanket wipe? Looks like Tony went black-ops or something; lone warrior and all that.
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Didn't even realize Kilo was back!
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but his profile kinda looks like Billy Van when he played Griszelda in "House of Frightenstein".
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Way cool concept.
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WIN!
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Felicia :(
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ALPHA!!!!! *SQUEE*
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Did I need to see that fucking DVD only episode to know whats going on in this? Zac Ward? Dr. Horrible girl? What the fuck is going on.
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Final fantasy VII, I swear.
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I'm a little irritated (and yes, it's my own damn fault).
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they cared about getting new viewers going into the second season. I fully accept the fact that they left this show on the air so Dumbshows like me will buy the DVD.
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Sweet!
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Whatever fuck that. I watch my TV show on TV sooooo I can help not get them canceled. And its a TV show I got no use for it on DVD once I've seen it. SO its kind of bullshit that Wheadon expect everyone to buy the DVD for the finale to make sense. I know I know he got fucked over on it, but still. I guess Whedon expects you to be all in on it or nothing at all then. Fucker I've got like 3 version of Toy Story so that's enough Wheadon DVD for me...and Alien 4.
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both of them."
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Are you trolling with a comment like that? I mean, I know I should expect idiocy from you, but god damn.... I wonder if you even watched the show, with a comment so stupid as that.
And then I remember all your crazy comments about Dollhouse (which I know you watched) and I realise, yeah, you probably meant it. -
Otherwise if all you need to see for the finale to make sense is the first episode....then what the fuck was the point of all those other episodes.
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you to buy the DVD. Joss WANTED them to air E1. The execs thought not. Which is ironic because E1 was a deceiding factor in getting season 2 renewed.
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I'm a school teacher...I mean an architect. heh.
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has something strapped to his back....
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AWWWWWWW!
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I wish Fox has spent half the effort at promoting Dollhouse that they did with Kitchen Nightmares...
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Makes me wish the last one didn't happen at all. Can I get a mindwipe over here?
Didn't work as full movie from E1 but closure....we have it. -
of all the crap that Eliza got over her acting in this series; the only two scenes that made me stifle tears were from her.
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from the DVD, then Epitaph One, then Epitaph Two and edited them together, you would have a movie. However, they weren't trying to make a movie but a TV series. This would lead to extranous footage...
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especially that Apocalyptica sequence during one of the fight scenes, badass
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choice indy tunes, just as Supernatural uses choice classics.
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it was like an impatient Gordon Ramsay hit it with his cleaver
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Not just the ending but do you think it tied up things? I'm also wondering what you thought of the penultimate episode re: Boyd/Whiskey/Saunders/Clyde, if you have a chance.
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Is that I immediately recognized the cute asian girl from "The Guild" music video (http://tinyurl.com/p5ew3k). And how great would it have been if Felicia Day, when asked what she did before the war, answered, "I used to play massively multiplayer online games."
R.I.P. Dollhouse. I enjoyed you. -
My DVR cut off right after Echo gets in the sleeping chamber. Was that it?
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I mean kind of closure to the whole thing. Just gotta fill in the fact that the world go to shit shortly after the episode before this. That was Apocalyptica. I thought it was. I really haven't enjoyed anything they've done after their cd with the Guano Apes lady on it.
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That's Mo Tancharoen-Whedon. She's is married to Jed Whedon - Joss's bro. PS: That "Date My Avatar" vid is hawt (directed by Jed.)
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...I swear tv is the best form of art or storytellin... no movie (or trilogy) can make you invest so much into the characters like a show can... and dollhouse was proof of it... it all wrapped up nicely and it was so bittersweet (but very abrupt wit that endin lol)... R.I.P
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It needed another hour to explain why Alpha turned good and how they got from the end of last episode to the time jump. I shouldn't be shocked by Whedon's obsession with keeping the main love interest apart forever, but at least Victor and Sierra got together. I am glad it at least had an ending unlike Angel. Topher had a good heroes' death while Paul went out like a bitch. I thought November was going to be in it.
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in this day & accounting age, getting high-profile, word of mouth script-writers, showrunners & authors will be making "Event TV". Remember Sho-Gun? The Thorn Birds? Roots? HBO & the like have picked that scenario up (and the Awards to prove it) - Network will follow the same eventually again, once those newbie execs stop focusing so much on tiny target demos and get with the real program.
The MTV generation raised everybody wrong.... GET OFF MY LAWN! -
Single worst last two episodes of a series since the fetid stink that was the series final for Star Trek:Enterprise.
I was mulling the "Boydflip" and not liking it for the past few weeks... but then just - whacking Ballard out of the blue and making Alpha into a hero. WTF?
Boyd and Ballard were the two "righteous dudes" of the series and they both just got butchered to pieces the last few episodes.
Does Whedon hate good men or what?
I stuck with this series through thick and thin and I feel like someone just jacked open my jaws and forced me to drink raw sewage. I am so pissed I can't stand it. -
before in E1 but I totally hear you on Boyd & Ballard.
I don't know. People were saying how you could feel how the cancelation was coming, how they felt things were racing ahead storyline wise since episode 4 & 5 of this season....I didn't get it. The last two episodes however; totally got it.
(Coda: Under the circumstances, this last ep did play very well off E1, though. More than I expected really.) -
The hentch woman with the machine gun?
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Well written.
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Even after all the ways it shouldn't have been.
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i assume that was Eliza's brother but which character was he? and as someone who hasn't seen Epitaph 1...yeah they didnt care about us. and i knew someone would die fast and sudden, it is Joss afterall. lol
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This is a series that had 12 very excellent, to good, episodes. It was a slow trek, but it was worth the 12 good episodes, out of the overall 26 episode run, for the series.I will miss you Talkbackers. It was sometimes fun arguing with you, and sometimes not. Buffy was the most fun of all, but it was a blast along the way--still, everything has its end. Goodbye my friends, and frienemies, it has been an honor, most of the time, anyway--well, to be honest, some of the time. Have beautiful lives, okay!!!! I will miss you. Sincerely, your friend, and frienemy, Media Messiah
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http://tinyurl.com/yznqdt3
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You're not going anywhere!Besides, people like to not liking you. You shouldn't leave.
Adelle voice: And I never found you inadequate; just tiresome. -
So, um, didn't really look like he needed to be there. He certainly wasn't doing anything important at "the moment". Bad writing, or was he making up an excuse so he didn't have to live with what he'd done?
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I'm not going anywhere, yes (the world needs its Jay Leno's to beat-up on), but the Talkback is going away, and I don't seem to see most of you on the other Talkbacks, the reason why I will miss you guys!!!
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The way the writers/producers wrapped up the series was quite weak. Echo's love interest dies suddenly to a stray gunshot that hits him in the head? Topher chills at the top of the tower and examines photos on the wall when he had plenty of time to get out. Oh, Echo imprinting her love interest's personality was just cheesy.
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He saw some fucked up stuff and he knew he wouldn't get a fresh start because he had not been wiped. Woman he loved was 10 years dead, his work corrupted and he brought on the apocalypse. Yea, pretty sure he saw it as his atonement. I like to think what he was looking at on the wall was a picture of Bennett
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And in a strange way, more emotionally satisfying than the Angel finale for me. (Angels was satisfying on an intellectual level for me.)
I think this series has shown some of Joss's best work. -
Jan 30, 2010 3:07:20 AM CST
That really encapsulated the good and bad aspects of this series
by dance4days
There were some interesting concepts (Victor's dependency on tech), and some great character moments (RIP Topher), but it was all undermined by a few moments of cheesy dialogue and bad pacing. In kind of felt like not-terrible fanfiction, honestly.
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There was no "Let's get to work." (Angel) or no "What are you gonna do now?" (Buffy). It was a sad ending in every sense.
But it was always surprising to me, how being sad can make you stronger. -
Topher knew that between manually putting the last clip in place, and the device going off, would be less than 5 seconds. And the explosion was too big to get anywhere safe in 5 seconds.
Putting the clips on, etc.. All seemed like manual work. It couldn't be automated and done from a distance. So yeah, he had to be there. -
Your finale was two weeks ago.
This episode was written for the people who had seen Epitaph One, and needed conclusion to *that* story.
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It had really cool concepts and characters. Almost like a prelude to the Altered Carbon books, with rich people uploading and downloading themselves. Exciting questions about identity, the soul itself, etc. However, they've ruined it by focusing on a company pimping out taylored whores - which is the most non-sensical use of the technology. I don't think they've really thought through what are they trying to do with this series. I know I couldn't take another season full of John Of The Week episodes.
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episodes. Either to put more sex in, to appease the regular Fox viewer or to establish characters etc. But they should have known with a 13 episode commitment, on Fridays, on Fox... they didn't have the luxury of time for filler episodes. It should have been a much tauter plot, like a mini-series, all wheat and no chaff. What's weirdly annoying is that, once it became obvious that the show was going to be about this upload/download modify personality, unwilling overwrites, etc... there were still people who couldn't get past the "whore of the week" concept.
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When Harry Lennix came up in the opening credits I thought we could be getting a Boyd flashback or something, guess not. As a whole, it was a satisfying end...but the whole Boyd-as-head-of-Rossum storyline is a major smudge on Dollhouse, it was a cheap trick 'twist' that makes very little sense and was very un-Whedon. Whereas Ballard getting shot in the head? Very typical Whedon. Lots to like in this one, Victor and Sierra's story was touching, and Eliza was very good, particularly in the breakdown scene, and Adelle and Topher got some redemption. Seeing Alpha again was cool too.
So looking back, for my money Dollhouse is a great series. Of the 26, there are only 2 eps I would consider outright awful (breastfeeding, backing singer) and a whole bunch of quality ones, Spy in the House of Love, Epitaph One and The Attic being the best. For once, it would be nice to see a Whedon show that desn't feel 'meddled' with, hopefully next time out (on Showtime or HBO pleeeeaaase!) we'll get a complete vision. Because Whedon is a distinctive voice in television, and like Sorkin, Simon or Milch anything he does will have me interested. -
I guess that couldn't afford him or fit him in. Damn. After his scene in E1 I really wanted to know why Adelle busted him out of the Attic...oh well
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Thats how I assume it would be explained anyway.
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Or have the aliens finally busted through his carefully constructed tin foil shields and removed him to Area 51?
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Wow a bullet to the head, my wife's mouth and mine were both agape after that. I was expecting Felicia day to get shot, but then Ballard just fricking crazy. I love how they completely wrapped up the story, yet left room for a sequel. I wouldn't be suprised if we saw in some form or another the Post-Tech Apocalypse. Joss is known for using other mediums. That said the series was great. Unlike all you haters here, I've loved it since the first episode, and I actually liked the backup singer episode (though not the fake mother one). Goodbye Dollhouse. Thanks Joss and ME for creating such a great new world.
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Loved it, finished watching it feeling like I had had an emotional workout. Paul's death had me just sitting there for about five minutes going, "Oh no Paul, oh no" repeatedly.I also got a kick out of seeing Adele as such a hero and sensitive character and the moments she shared with Echo, especially after Echo said she wasn't sure whether to kill her or not in E1 !
Topher's sacrifice was excellent and I'm glad that I was wrong that he was wrong about Topher turning out to be Harding. The moment with Zone and the little girl after she got wiped (that sounds so wrong) was touching especially as he was such an A hole!In fact too many good things to list. The only bad things for me were the cliched tech-talk from the tech heads (logout already) and the fact that we still don't get any closure about Harding (or did I miss something?).So yes, I feel vindicated in trawling through the crap and the mediocre that this show had to blend into its mix and am satisfied that it ended well as could be expected considering its cancellation.And for the Dushku haters - she really showed that she could act in this one, she really had me choked up. I hope she finds a good vehicle after this and I'm sure the great finds that came to light in this show (Enver, Dichen in particular) will go on to much greater things. -
Topher's sacrifice was excellent and I'm glad that I was wrong that he was going to turn out to be Harding. The moment with Zone and the little girl after she got wiped (that sounds so wrong) was touching especially as he was such an A hole!
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... that everyone knows the friday slot is a killer, so instead of creating all these great shows and sacrificing them to make way for another, why not just stick to one for a while? so what if the numbers were low, they will always be low, so why not just make something cheap, that will make money on dvd, and just let it have its friday night. who knows, it may even pick up after a few seasons. We've lost two good shows in Terminator and Dollhouse, both of which had excellent second seasons. maybe the only thing that could break the friday time slot curse is a third season...
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Not in a good way.
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otherwise they might have tried to do the same thing they did with dollhouse and rush about 3 seasons worth of story into a handful of last episodes, which completely sucked. a lot of those those things could have been at least several episode long arcs, like the attic, the chick with the dead arm, the politician guy, even on the epitaph episodes, the techheads, neropolis. Instead, it felt like a Russel T. Davies episode of Dr. Who.
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and i'm still annoyed with fox over firefly. dollhouse on the other hand, never showed that much promise and didn't deserve a second season.
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for a "2 seasons worth of stories" idea, i thought the movie was pretty damn good and didnt feel rushed. but the one thing that bugged is the end when River suddenly becomes okay. on an episode of Firefly we discovered that they removed a piece of her brain so she'd never be okay again no matter what they did. but the movie made it seem like it was all just a mental thing that got flipped like a switch.
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Overstuffed and slightly confusing, but never the less it did have some satisfying character moments. I'm kind of in agreement over the sentiment about Boyd's turn in the final episodes, it also smacks of the rush to tidy up for the series end.
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That was a better episode.
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The only one findin it funny that wash asked bout a char who died and was answered by the said dead person strong gf/wife?
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I think alpha and echo should had a final convo bout pauls death and their evolved mindset... it could show us hope for their lonely future
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For joss next show zone will star in it... new chars intro in a show that is canceled always pop on his next project... gina torres, summer glau, adam baldwin, etc
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Actually, I think they should have stopped the series with "The Hollow Men." The ending would have left it open to a non-rushed sequel... everything felt rushed and contrived... that is if Whedon wanted to revisit the material.
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...Cant those jericho fans send some hard drives or condoms to fox?
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Though I could have done with a whole season in the 2020 setting, I thought so many elements of that final episode were fantastic. Especially the scene between Echo and Pria where it's really about Paul. Hate all you want, but Eliza really brought it in that scene. I love that they hug Alpha but he still has a sick sense of humor. Topher becoming the heart of the show in many ways. Felicia Day. nuff said. Even the potentially cheesy tech talk ("Log off!") worked. I'm hoping the DVD will have an extended cut. I think they brought in the Mutant Enemy thing a bit too quickly. But how awesome that it's ultimately through the chair and the tech that Echo and Paul can truly be together. This, to me, was the most satisfying ending to a Whedon show since Buffy. Can't wait for the season 2 dvd. And to see what's next for Mutant Enemy.
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Besides bein so emotionally attached to a tv show, was that freakin slow mo shotgun parts lol... if it was normal speed than the ME logo wouldnt had jumped up so fast...
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Buffy if you are going to yell at the damn kids to get off your lawn you forgot the most important part, the fist shake. It's what scares the young whippersnappers away.
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Isn't that show with the old ladies and the tranny that live in the suburbs still on?
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No, DH is a movie series featurin buildings, airports, the entire state of NY, and Kevin Smith minus dick in his mouth jokes
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i mean it cut so abruptly during such a calm scene and with such a calm song playing. i noticed that the hour was already up so i'm wondering if its maybe just Fox that cut so fast because they were overtime.
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I would have loved to have seen Mr. Dominic again like many others but that's such a minor complaint for an ep that not only wrapped up a series, but did it 20 years in the future. The Victor/Sierra stuff in the future was unexpected and a nice twist to their relationship. Totally badass - loved it. And Alpha, taking the imprint of Paul out of his head and leaving it for Echo was great. I didn't really understand why he was leaving the Dollhouse but looks like the Paul imprint might have been what was keeping him sane. Gonna heat up me up some pizza and do an Original Pilot -> Epitaph One -> Epitaph Two marathon. Not ready to let this show go just yet. Bravo Joss and crew.
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to see how Smallville: Absolute Justice turns out next friday... the 2hr show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X3RP3wHtg -
Not nearly as bad of an actress as some of you make her out to be..but I tell ya, I would love to bang the crap out of her. Those thighs are perfect..
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but agree on the body and thighs
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...she, like anyone who is suffering from mental issues, is never really cured, rather, it is just a day by day, moment by moment, issue by issue, situation--thus, the door was left open for her to face other problems, if the story had continued. Trust me, the Caroline/Echo storyline in Dollhouse is the completion, and fulfillment, of River's story arc, just recast, and re-purposed, to fit Dollhouse, and Boyd is Book, and Victor and Sierra, are Mal and Inara, and Topher is Simon, etc., etc.
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Area 51 is really a nice place--you should visit sometime.
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dollhouse finale was ok...too many unanswered questions but i'm not involved enough to care. eliza dushku's best acting moment in the series was lost. we didn't get enough play on the echo-ballard relationship so that expression of grief felt a bit empty to me. looking forward to absolute justice. the recent episode of smallville was lacklustre in spite of the archer vs archer superheroics. am eagerly waiting for zod [and co] to get properly superpowered so he can be a proper supervillain and not a creepy stalker-guy
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This finale would have worked better with a good three full seasons of episodes and character development behind it. So many holes still exist about hoe everyone and everything got from 2010 to 2020. Alpha is most prominent among them. Also, I found it distracting that almost everyone looks totally unaged. Ten years pass where the world has gone to complete shit with apocalyptic fallout at hand, and there's no visible signs of stress or aging on anyone? Did the make-up department's budget dry up? After all the madness Topher went through, he still looks like a healthy, clean cut guy in his mid-to-late twenties? He should've looked like a stressed out, bags under the bloodshot eyes near-40 year old with some prominent stress-induced grey hairs. Just bothers me. Only Echo is given any visible signs that she's aged at all. And I am not a fan of Boyd's poorly chosen plot twist - WTF?! From the first episode, he was the guy I really liked, and they ruined him for me. It all just felt as rushed and awkward as could be. I'm hoping Nip/Tuck doesn't feel the same way, but it's starting to feel like it (it feels stripped down and narrowly focused, not offering a lot of series encompassing closure).
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or maybe who say's I have? BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! unconventional ops is fun especially now that we have your computer register and the beams calibrated; your puny tin foil hat is no match. The Mother ship is in position.
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Helo and Faith's reunion was bittersweet.It ended well.
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Really? U ppl still watch this crap? Worst show on TV.
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What happened to Saunders? What happened to November? I'd love to know what Whedon had in mind for how Echo lives her life a/o how Caroline's original personality feels about never getting her own life back.I also didn't understand Alpha; what happened with him exactly and why did he leave, where did he go, was he going to be reset or stay "Alpha"?
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One, AbsoluteTruth is a wanker. ;) Two, I'll miss this show. Topher really became the heart of the show and a very rounded character with a lot of depth. I'm really hoping to see Fran Kranz in movies or TV in the future because I really ended up caring about Topher and his acting had a lot to do with it. It was a very touching and moving moment that the amoral tech guy ended up making the ultimate sacrifice and in the most selfless possible way, and telling how much it moved me that he did so.
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Introduce yourself. Which little green man or woman are you?
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Play your fantasy nicely.
Besides, we all know that there's no way to post to the internet once you're inside S4. -
November died in the episode before this one. as for Saunders, i honestly dont remember...i know she had a big fight with Echo but wow, i cant even recall if she died or not.
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this word does not describe 24 season 8. the whole thing seems a mess.
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in Epitaph 1. When the Butchers break into the LA Dollhouse, she releases a poison gas that kills everyone. I guess when they got her out of Phoenix they left her there as a safeguard.
I am confused about Alpha running the LA Dollhouse afterwards. Was he actually working for Rossum and just hid the fact that he was on the rebels side or did the rebels in fact overtly takeover the LA Dollhouse? -
is better then most things. mo was and is her finest performance.
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brilliant take on the friday slot--i mean, if its the 'death slot' and only is occupied by shows that are on their way out, why not just keep the same one and hope for the best? it makes perfect sense and i can't believe it didn't occur to me sooner. and as for a plot twist, I will not acknowledge MM (except what i wrote just now).
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sonofabitch. i'm happy and furious. i'm happy because it seems that the show is worth watching now that it seems to have a real ending. (whether the ending is good or bad isn't the issue--i just wanted an ending, and i'll decide if its good or bad myself).BUT I AM FURIOUS, ABSOLUTELY FURIOIUS with Media Messiah's post--you are never really cured from mental illness? Well, as i have said many times--you've got some type of mental illness, and i've also said how i'm schizophrenic -- you know that, MM. Maybe YOU are not cured, and maybe its 'day to day, moment to moment' for YOU, but I consider myself as cured. its NOT something i have to deal with every moment--its called trusting your doctors and trusting, and continuing to trust, the medication. My case was so severe i got disability (a load of money and health insurance for life) and i'm 'cured' Every now and then i'll hear a song and think 'wow, that totally applies to me' but the difference is that me NOT-cured thinks 'oh my god, they're writing songs about my life!' whereas me, cured, thinks 'those lyrics are great, universal and apply to alot of people... its nice to hear people thinking about things i think about myself.' To me, that = cured.see a psychologist, be honest with him, and then come back and make an ignorant comment about mental illness. take medication for three years and then comment on mental illness based on your experience with it, because trust me, you are experiencing it right now, and i hope you struggle your whole life. Also, GET A FUCKING JOB and stop your obsession with the entertainment industry and the interent--writing, film, music, ninja-skills (entertaining for those of us who read that you can 'destroy' anyone.). And i call BULLSHIT on you're 'oh i've had a rough year so i haven't been able to write.' that's BULLSHIT because writers struggle with life too, and that includes me, and one of the reasons i made a full recovery is because i never gave up on writing--i wrote through the psychological pain, and worked my ass off to re-learn how to write now that i'm on medication. it was hard, and YOU, MM, take the easy route and make excuses and have aspirations that are too high and are fucking paranoid and delusional when you think your stuff is so good you can't put it on the internet because it will be stolen--and thinking that about your music is one of the most idiotic things you've ever said. You will crash. its inevitable. and i hope to god it hurts and you lose everything you have (which is clearly not much)
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Harsh and brutally honest.
And pointless.
You DO know he's incapable of realising he has a problem, right? Stop feeling morally responsible for him just because you went through something similar. It will only frustrate you and annoy you.
You've done everything that would be expected of you, but Media Messiah is not someone you can help. If he dove out a window tomorrow, you could still sleep easily, knowing there was nothing you could have done about it.
He's admitted in a previous post that he thought he might be autistic, and STILL never bothered to get checked out. How messed up is THAT? So you just know, that he'll never get checked out for a disorder diagnosed by some well-meaning strangers on the internet. -
rants about never being cured. I think most people know that if Media Messiah states something, it's bullshit. If he posted that I should take aspirin for a headache, I'd get a second opinion.
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...alien technology!
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...headache. It works, scientfically, speaking.
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I'm sorry to see that my friend, but I wish you well. Goodbye, unless I see you on another Talkback.
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I hear Asprin...is bad for you, but Aspirin--not so much.
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I really hope you made all that up. Because after that psycho rant, on an internet forum no less, I think you've spoken too soon about being 'cured'. And as a professional writer, I give you this courtesy: give up now. Otherwise you're liable to end up even more fucked up in the head. If you were kidding: mental illness is not a joke so don't treat it as such; and never, ever, feed the trolls.
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his OWN second opinion.
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I just couldn't resist. It looked similar to what the devices in FlashForward "exhaled".
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So, it was only right that I give you what you asked for--a second opinion (my own). V, I'm not Hitler, we just disagreed over a TV show, however, in the end, the 12 good episodes of Dollhouse were great, and I applaud them, the rest of the episodes of the show, no--but that is just my view. You've been a good enemy, and a good frienemy, but I rather be your friend. Let's call a truce, and sing "Let It Be". I wish you only happiness in life!!!
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I don't think of you as a friend, enemy or frenemy. We've disagreed over more than a TV show, but so what? That's just basic disagreement.
I know you're fixated on that disagreement, because you want to believe that the frequent posts about your mental health are in some way related to that.
But they're not. They never were. They were a genuine if misguided attempt to help you. It's probably harder for Ryan than for me, since he's gone through it personally.
When you post something off the wall, on a subject someone knows something about, it is frustrating as hell. For Ryan, that was mental illness. In my case, that whole Venus thing.
Getting or even seeking an emotive response from people... I can see how some people think you're just a troll. It is very trollish behaviour to drive someone to posting an angry response, and then to ignore the substance and complain about their use of profanity.
If and when it ever gets to the point where you have a moment of clarity and get some help, it won't be related to anything or anyone on this site. -
This is an insane world, and as Seal says, "We're Never Gonna Survive, Unless, We Get A Little Crazy." Most people have problems and issues, and are crazy, insane, or are just left of center, to some level, if not all people, but as long as you are kind to others, and don't hurt anyone, well, that type of person, is okay in my book. Being eccentric is a form of being odd, and some would call it crazy. Being eccentric is also being creative, silly, loving, funny, and beautiful--which is what I am--however, being unstable, on the opposite pole, is usually associated with one's capability to be evil, and to engage in deeds of cruelty, as well as exhibiting a lack of kindness, or a lack of forgiveness, or indifference to the pain and suffering of others--this, the reason why I wish you happiness, and love, where you cannot allow yourself to wish me...the same?
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Because the guy in the asylum drooling into a cup or spreading faeces on the walls, can be happy as Larry and is not hurting anyone. I still wouldn't wish that life on anyone. Happiness isn't everything.
I could wish you sanity and good mental health, rather than blissful delusions. But wishes are as meaningless as prayer, and about as useful. You want to make the world a better place? Stop praying, and actually DO something.
Actions speak louder than words.
Ryan, for his part, took his mental health experiences and counsels a youth group, as well as writing a book about what he went through. That's laudable and worth a lot more than any amount of good wishes and prayers.
In your case, right now, today, you're just not capable of recognising that the messages sent to you should have been taken at face value. Well meaning, well intentioned, well informed people were telling you to get some help. Instead, you see these messages as personal attacks brought on by your opinions about a TV show.
It's not your fault that you can't and won't take these posts at face value. I said as much in my original messages, that you'd never accept that there was anything wrong. That's symptomatic. It's textbook. But at the same time, there's a moral obligation to at least say *something*.
Anyway, it's been said, it's been ignored, it's done. I'm sure Ryan's angry outburst was momentary and that he doesn't actually want you to lose everything to your problem.
It's just frustrating as hell to him. It's like...imagine you've had a problem with drugs and you've lost your health, your possessions, your family, or whatever. But after long months of withdrawl and rehab, you get clean, and build your life back together. And then one day you see a friend has a drug problem. Don't you see how that would entail friendly warnings, stern warnings, annoyed warnings? And how frustrating it would be to see your friend grinning at you saying "Not me, man. I have no problem. I can stop whenever I want." Basically doing all the same things YOU did?
You want them to understand "I've BEEN where you are. I WENT where you're going. I'm TRYING to help you, because it gets a lot WORSE in the direction you're heading."
But at the same time, you have to know that the friend isn't in a place where he can hear you right now. No matter how well intentioned you might be. But morally, you have to say something. So that if the day comes and he gets help, he might remember that some people tried to help him. And that's kind of important too, because when you're climbing out of the depths of mental problems, or addiction, or some other personal demons, it helps to know that someone out there thought your life had worth enough to try to help you. That you aren't alone, and that other people have been where you are. That they got through it.
I hope you remember that, one day. -
I found Topher's character annoying and overacted at first, but I began to see his growth over the episodes. The end was very sad and very sudden. Kudos to Whedon and Fran Kranz!
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for season 8. SO far its all over the place. last night sky showed two more double episodes. as there is no talkback. 24 season 8 is set in new york where jack is in town to meet up with kim and her daughter and hubby. jack is finished with ctu. there are peace talks in the un. but there is a sabateur who wants to kill president hasan(slumdog millionaire's anil kapoor) there is a new boss of CTU Mykleti Williamson. and a new data person Kate sackhoff. Jack knows something is going when an old informant bumps into him and ends dead in front of jack. Mykelti williamsons hastings is no pushover. he has no time for chloe o brien. She dislikes him equally. Tensions come to the fore when hastings orders to arrest of a journalist, who has some links to hassan. romantically. This journ was setup by someone who wants to bring Hassan down. we also learn that Dana walsh vicious boyfriend has returned and demands she come home. so he can give her a pasting. We were last night introduced to Renee Walker who was with the FBI and went undercover. we also that season 8 4 eps in is a mess. it seems to cover the feds, the russians, peace talks, assisination attempts. and it also had one of the laugh out loud funny scenes. when Freddie prinze, jnr is warning his team that there is hitman in their misdsts. we know what the hitman looks like because he is standing right in front Freddie prinze jnr. hilarious
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Media Messiah, thankyou for making me laugh, I have honestly never heard anyone quote that great philosopher Seal with regards to mental illness. Genius
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Much better and frustrating, why change that? oh well Epitaph 2 was a little lack lustre and a little exciting too. Sums it up nicely.
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"November died in the episode before this one."Yeah, I remembered that shortly after I posted. I forgot about that, but then remembered and recalled it as a sad point considering how doe-eyed and innocent the character was."as for Saunders, i honestly dont remember...i know she had a big fight with Echo but wow, i cant even recall if she died or not."She released what has been dubbed "nerve gas" in Epitaph One, but I wasn't sure if that was fatal nerve gas (I thought not) or "knock-out gas" and that Alpha came back in Epitaph Two and wiped/implanted the "Butchers" so they'd be Dolls instead of homicidal maniacs. So she's either dead or just gone, which kind of sucks because she was a very tragic and heartfelt (not to mention well-acted) character that I'd like to have had a bit more closure. If her last moment in life was her watching over the Dollhouse and dying as its protector and an evolved shell of who she used to be, that is a very sad and bitter-sweet ending to such an interesting and compelling character.
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Now that Joss has some free time I'd like to see him team up with the Beeb and sort this project out before anything else!
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Noticed that too.
"That's everyone." or whatever she said was basically "He's not coming." -
The slightly cliched 'tech heads' and neuropolis being the only slight mis-steps for me really. Two questions though - one, what happened with Alpha? Is there anything, anywhere to suggest why he suddenly became a good hippie? Also, what do you think Topher noticed on the wall before the explosion?
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