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George Lucas is taking aim at AVATAR with CG Fairies!!! Oh, and it is a musical?
Hey folks, Harry here... So... Seems George Lucas is doing a Musical for Fairies. Ok smart ass, not all musicals are for Fairies! Unless you're calling me a fairy, if so you can snort my fairy dust!
According to HOLLYWOOD REPORTER's Heatvision Blog George is producing with TMNT director Kevin Munroe helming, a big animated film in Pre-Production at Skywalker Ranch.
Now - my first thought when I heard George Lucas and "fairies" was actually Brian and Wendy Froud. And in their world they're called FAERY or FAERIES. I think of this mainly because George did produce LABYRINTH which had Froud's stamp from top to bottom - and Froud is quite possibly the foremost artist that has gone into the world of Faeries in a non-cutesy manner.
If this is in pre-production at SKYWALKER - I wonder if George will push the production to a more photo-real CG with his ILM to take us truly into a world of singing faeries... or if it'll be more cartoony in nature? Well, this could be in development for ages.
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George Lucas does not do any new films. He just tinkers with his back catalogue and rolls in big piles of our money.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:06:24 AM CST
I think George has been possessed by a ten year old girl...
by ronald raygun
So Lucasfilm is now in much more capable hands than it was.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:12:47 AM CST
It's hard to keep up, this is a Mel talkback right?
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
No? Lucas? Fairies? I'm goin back to Mel. Still....I'll probably go see it.
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Fuck you and damn you to hell!!!
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Why are they singing? Doesn't Disney have a firm hold on that market?
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Either a complete mis-step or a work of genius!
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...sounds cool to me.
(I'd still like to see him fucking direct something himself, though...) -
And then you mentioned the director of TMNT and lost me all over again...
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He ruined Star Wars! That's a capital crime in my book. He shouldn't be allowed within 500 yards of a movie studio for that.
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and other sites, knowing that I'll get to read them again up to a week later on AICN!
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But this Lucas guy can't be trusted. We'll have to see how this unfolds. :)
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It's that Indy 4 thing that still gets me... Aliens, really George!? I mean really!??
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Will it be just as boring and predicable as Avatar ?
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And this site has the most boring interface of all moviesites i look up. Take joblo as an example. And of all the other sites you deliver the smallest amount of news. Only thing that's interesting are these talkbacks because of all the rants.
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Speaking of George, I wonder why this site doesn't cover The Clone Wars animated series? I think it's turned into a great series and some of the best stuff Lucas has done in years. People say he's ruined Star Wars, I think he's reinvented Star Wars with The Clone Wars.
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instead of clay molded hair.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:58:52 AM CST
clay molded hair george! what is this davie and goliath?
by orionsangels
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Which is a big hit in my house.
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Remember when George had good taste in hiring his directors? Spielberg, Kershner, Marquand...and now, Kevin...Munroe...? wtf
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...this could rock. Like Fraggles.
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...each with several changes of costume and some amusing gadgets and/or vehicles.Gotta shift those toys, right George?
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Agreed. Froud rules and his flattened faeries/goblin books are great.
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Maybe the long awaited shift into more 'personal' movies he's always professed to aspire to is a little nearer.
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A whiny teenaged faerie inexplicably makes a snap decision to join the bad faeries, leaving his princess faerie to die.
Meanwhile, a silly goofy faerie stands in doo-doo and talks in a funny voice.
Ultimately, a camp golden fairy and a small fat blue and white faerie ponder the mystery of why older films about faeries were so much better. -
George Lucas has had 2 great concepts in the last 4 decades, zero in the last 2. There is no friggin way that I'll be taking my kid to this film. George Lucas only causes heartbreak to us loyal filmgoers and I will not subject my child to that. Damn you George....damn you in the face...
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Please fuck off. You stopped being relevant after A New Hope. (All other SW films were either directed by others or simply sucked monkey ass)...
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Jan 28, 2010 4:28:48 AM CST
Well at least he's involved with something that isn't SW or Indy
by preacher_mg
When was the last time he did that ? Howard the duck, wasn't it?
Time to see if you're more than a two-trick pony, George. -
...He's not fucking up STAR WARS.
Go George! Make all the fairy movies you want! And give the STAR WARS legacy over to someone who actually cares about it, you indifferent FUCK!! -
It's scary how a man like Froud can display more talent and creativity in one movie than George's last four movies in a fucking row have. All the SW prequels and Indy IV COMBINED do not come close to the awesomeness that is LABYRINTH. Or THE DARK CRYSTAL...
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I mean, you guys still believe GL even knew about Howard the Duck until about a decade ago?
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Mel Gibsons four fuckin ton face in 3-fuckin-D and you got box fuckin office gold!
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Leave the man alone, his spirit his broken.
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Oh and more Indiana Jones, that should be all George Lucas is ever allowed to do, until he is dead.
And that will be a day long remembered. -
And this as of now has nothing to do with him or his wife.
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In what way is Star Wars dead?
There is a massive following for the EU novels, as well as the various Dark Horse comic series'.
Not to mention the huge video game market, Knights Of The Old Republic, The Force Unleashed, Battlefront.
Oh yeah, and there is the incredibly successful CLone Wars tv show, as well as the live action tv show being prepped right now.
Star Wars is far from dead. -
and I mean original, not with the CGI crap fest of 1997 and 2004
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The new champion. Now there are NO other movies in existence that I want to see less than this.
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Lucas is using this fairy thing as an exercise to see where he can take 3D. If he's pleased with the results, I'm sure he'll utilise it for Indy 4 and even a new SW movie or three. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but he's not going to let Cameron take all the plaudits as "the man who changed how films are made forever". The check shirted overlord's ego will demand that Lucas / ILM take precedence again.
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ILM may do more business but WETA is the pinnacle and no amount of fairies are going to change that.
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Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Labrynth, Willow - that's a lot of geek cred with me. Yeah, I hated Indy IV, and was disapointed with the prequels (though I did think that they were okay). I just don't get the "bitter geek" thing. Best of luck with your fairy cartoon.
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played by steven seagal in the new star wars. The last 3 sw films looked more like cartoons, just to cgi.
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Yeah, but those games sucked! Glad I never spent money on them. And I still want my money back for Crystal Skulls!! If only one person can fuck up his own movies even more, even with 3D, its good old Toad Neck George.
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Not that I expected anything else.
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Man, he's really lost it, it's over for poor George. He should stick to peddling star wars merchandise. ILM just doesn't have the top talent anymore, Pixar & Weta is where to find 'em. moving ILM to the Presidio was the turning point. I bet Red Tails will suck & he'll fill it with cheesy references to himself. Or more of those fucking prairie dogs. These days I see The Prequels as a metaphor for the fall of Lucas.
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I should know, I'm applying for Production Coordinator. Made it through to Round 2, still awaiting further correspondence. Fingers crossed.
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but the prequels already look dated thanks to the CGI fest. Yoda looks like shit compared to his puppet counterpart in Empire Strike Back
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not the live-action studio or ILM.
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Jan 28, 2010 7:14:45 AM CST
Unless the Fairies are extremely sexy, I'm not watching it.
by watch_the_birdie
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I am a fan of all 6 films. Lucas didn't ruin my childhood. Sure ever since I was 6 in 1977 I've been a fan. Going in to see Phantom Menace I had ideas about what I would see, but the movie was nothing like what I had built up in my head for 22 years. It ended up being George's concept not mine. I loved it, it took me back to being 6 while I sat in that theatre, and for that I love the prequels more than I like the originals. Everytime I watch any of the films or the Clone Wars series it gives me that feeling of being 6 again and reminds me of why I enjoyed the original 3 in the first place. If I had been 6 watching the Phantom Menace I would have thought it was the greatest action adventure fantasy film ever made. And to me, all 6 films are just that, the 6 greatest action adventure fantasy films ever made.
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Well, one can only hope.
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New, ambitious project not rehashing a familiar property from one of the most significant filmmakers of our time. Whether I enjoy the final product or not, that's good news. Good luck, George--hope it's a great success (and wholly unlike the prequels & Indy IV).
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Oh, to live in your world, bud...
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I didnt think any of those games sucked at all, I enjoyed them all.
And no one really thinks the KOTR games are rubbish, they are universally praised for both story content and excellent playability. -
With the success of the ostensibly beautiful - but clearly quite sucky - Avatar, I think it's quite possibly that a new movie series will come along and do what Lucas, Cameron and the Wachowskis have - in recent memory - obviously failed to deliver. Maybe Ridley Scott's Forever War, if he ever stops screwing around with medieval 'epics' or whatever. Sure, he's saying he wants to another Alien, but would anybody seriously want to watch a movie about the Space Jockeys lumbering about trying work out which way to hold the map of the Acheron system, or something we haven't seen on the big screen before?
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are "gay," then he truly has his head up his Underoo-wearing, basement-living, can't-get-laid ass. What's gay? AICN screenings, where dorks slobber, and kiss the ass of the guest speaker to the point that even he/she is horrified.
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This shows how outta touch georgy boy is
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The existence of this project neither validates or threatens my existence. Go for it, Georgie.
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That was a beautiful description of your reaction to the prequels, quite close with my own.
And I maintain that Clone Wars is the best Star Wars ever, period! -
I had to laugh, you know Lucas produced Labyrinth, right? :D
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...that massively-inflated ego.
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anyone else will either make Tinkerbell little winged fairies or be ripping Froud anyway. The only other choice would be Mike Mignola.
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Jan 28, 2010 8:55:45 AM CST
Harry, just because Froud is the only one you've heard of...
by raw_bean
...doesn't automatically make him the foremost artist in depicting the world of Faerie. Froud is awesome no doubt, but you've heard of him because his work has appeared in films. As a single example, you're of course aware of Stardust, and The Sandman by Neil Gaiman? Charles Vess (just read the Midsummer Night's Dream issue of Sandman last night) kicks unholy ass at depicting Faeries.
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I sometimes wonder what that studio is doing with it's time. Can you often hear "Red rover, red rover send George on over?" echoing through the halls?I know they are doing Star Wars: Clone Wars, but that seems like a side job for the studio that made the prequels. Are all those sound stages just sitting dormant?I'm pretty sick of being teased about the live-action series. We've been hearing about that for YEARS AND YEARS! Unless they are doing the whole thing film quality I can't understand what is taking so long. I mean, that would be cool as fuck, don't get me wrong. It just seems like we should be hearing more about the process by now.
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Review on YouTube, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU! Go watch it. Now.
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In recent months I have seen George Lucas attempt to defend the prequels by blaming the audeince. Lucas's argument is that the originals were made for kids and so were the prequels. While there may be some truth to this, the far bigger issue is that the prequels are simply bad movies with too many flaws to discuss in this forum. While the original films are classics (minus that Ewok nonsense in ROTJ)that have stood the test of time. The problem is that Mr. Lucas made inferior follow up's to his classic trilogy. The problem is not and never was it's audience.
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Maybe it will be film quality. Think of how long The Phantom Menace was in development, Lucas started work on that movie in 1995, and that was just two hours, a tv show is likely to be closer to 20.
Lucas never rushes. I heard he wanted the scripts for the first two seasons done before anything went into production, it was the same with Clones Wars because that is only intended to run for a 100 episodes -
I do agree, though that Brian Froud, should be involved in this project.
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This sounds so fucking strange! Hey, George when are you going to return to low budget-strange movies like you said you would after the last star wars prequel, huh?! I wanna see that so bad because if they kick ass then everything his done up til this point will make perfect sense in a fucked up sort of way.
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I didn't know Clone Wars (which is fucking EXCELLENT by the way) was going to be 100 episodes, but that makes sense because I heard the live action series will be 100 episodes.It just seems weird that we haven't heard much about it recently. Is Kevin Smith still involved? Who are the characters? Has anything been cast? When will they be shooting? Do they have any idea when it will start showing, or on what channel?One thing I've heard is that they are shooting for having the pilot episode play in theaters like they did with Clone Wars. So that's one piece of evidence that the production values will be fairly high.And while I initially thought it was cool that Kevin Smith was helping sculpt the show, after his last few films, that actually sounds like a liability.But with his recent interview on AICN it sounds like he's really just sitting around not doing anything and feeling worthless so that makes me think that although it's all but been verified that he had some involvement in the beginning of the process, his services became no longer required in fairly short order. That'd probably make me turn to pot too.
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Brian Froud did the artwork! Jim Henson is the reason Dark Crystal and Labyrinth were so original. If Jim Henson was Still alive, he would blow away AVATAR with what he could do with today's technology.
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Jan 28, 2010 9:17:58 AM CST
If Brian Froud is involved I'm interested. I'm much rather...
by flickapoo
...it be a Henson puppet thing, but I'm interested.
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...I Don't Want to Live on the Moon I get all teary-eyed. Man I wish Henson wasn't dead.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeNO56xNlZo Fuck.
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Kevin Smith hasnt been involved for a while. And I heard Lucas was scouting real locations in Australia, and to shoot over there full time.
And Lucasfilm put out a call for writers a year or so ago.
And remember the teaser poster with Boba Fett on it? How long ago was that? 2006-7?
But to be honest I completely agree that they are just sitting around, a Star Wars tv show would be hugely successful even if it was utter garbage, so surely some real information would have emerged by now.
And Clone Wars has been amazing, even Asoka doesnt annoy me any more. The episode where Anakin interogates the prisoner on the ship was amazing, that moment was more sinister than most of his actions in the movies! -
Whyy dont you write the fucking dvd column were all waiting for? No one gives a shit about George Lucas anymore. He had three good concepts in his career. He cant write for shit. Watch the dvds and not Georges fairies.
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Every director says they're going to make a movie about two people having dinner after they get done with a huge project. They RARELY do that. The few times directors have done that, it's always a disaster. Look at Soderberg's Bubble. MY GOD what a rancid piece of shit. Coppolla has tried this a couple of times and it was fail, fail, fail.Once you are an epic filmmaker, you stay that way, like it or not.I'm not going to engage in a prequel defense thing, but those were big, epic films. They were fun, exciting adventure films....just with some goofy-assed, shmaltzy shit mixed in. Yes I agree they had more stupid shit in them than the OT and the heavy use of CGI, however groundbreaking it was at the time, makes them feel very different than the OT.But at some point we have to start acknowledging the amazing universe the prequels opened up that we couldn't even imagine with just the OT.I'm sorry but Clone Troopers are the fucking SHIZNIT! Double-ended and multi-colored lightsabers are cool as fuck! All the amazing weapons, animals and vehicles, not to mention jaw-dropping environments introduced in the prequels can't simply be dismissed with a finger pointing to fucking Jar Jar!And I love how it all ties together so beautifully with the OT. Seeing Anakin raised a slave, witnessing his mother die, turning to the dark side to prevent Padme's death and slaughtering younglings, none of us could have possibly thought up a better origin story for that character, no matter how sloppily some of it was handled.I'm just saying man, RESPECT!
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http://tinyurl.com/ya4a49r
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I haven't heard of that! Are you sure it wasn't just some fan art wishful thinking thing?
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After the prequels, indy and now a musical cartoon about fairies?
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This has all the hallmarks of another big Lucasfilm mistake. Here's what I predict will happen...we won't here about this anymore for 5-10 years, then itwill rear it's ugly head again and everyone will be dreading it even more than they are now. Lucas should concentrate on INDY 5 and the live-action STAR WARS TV series, and let this shit drop by the wayside. DO everyone a favor and try to make the INDY and STAR WARS stuff as good as it can be.
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She can't be more than eight.
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And just deeply in the closet. Anyone else get that feeling?
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Star Wars is more fantasy than sci fi if you think about it.And did you all forget Willow? That's what George did when he couldn't get the rights to Lord of the Rings, which I think we're all pretty thankful for, including Lucas. He actually told Christopher Lee "I couldn't have done that" when referring to PJ's films. I'm Chris was like "No fucking shit!".
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No it was real, it was basically just a teaser shown at a big toy fair when the force unleashed was unveiled for the first time. I'll see if I can find a link.
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Jan 28, 2010 9:56:04 AM CST
I'm pretty sure Lucas is snorting piles of cocaine--
by the reluctant austinite
--right off his desk like "Scarface", playing with Barbie Fairytopia toys. When Rick McCallum comes walking in the door, George screams at the top of his lungs, "Say hello to my little friends!" McCallum immediately calls a staff meeting to greenlight the project.
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I with you dude... the hate stuff is a little over the top. I actually thought Indy 4 was enjoyable if somewhat dull and overlong. I have my 3 original SW films, Raiders, Willow and Labyrinth... even Indy 2 was a great romp and ROTS had its moments even if they were few and far between. All the other Lucasfilm stuff I could take or leave. But Lucas done good overall.
I think part of the thing is that the rest of the world has caught up with The Beard. When Star Wars was released I remember seeing that as a 3 year old and being absolutely blown away by that Star Destroyer basting away at the Blockade Runner.
Now, ~30 years later, Hollywood has finally caught up... Lord of the Rings... Avatar... even parts of crappy Transformers mimics that Star Destroyer "Holy Shit" moment.
Lucas' contribution to SF/Fantasy is solid... he has earned the right to make his fairy movie.
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I'd have to add American Graffiti to the good list and even THX is a curiosity.
OK I'm done. -
http://www.rebelscum.com/TF2007/SWtimeline.jpg
This shows the Lucas Line up at the time, but everything was put back a year for some rerason, the tv show probably till 2012.
There is a full size version of the Fett poster but I cannot find it, with Fett's helmet almost as a shadow on a black background with 2009 written underneath. -
It has always been set between trilogies, but the original rumour, I believe stated by Rick McCallum himself, was that it would feature a young Luke Skywalker growing up on Tatooine, cut with other rebel happenings in space.At first I recoiled from this idea like everyone else, but the more I thought about it I thought it could be really cool. We know next to nothing about the Jawas and Tusken Raiders. We've never seen Womprats or Krate Dragons (unless you count video game incarnations) so all of that could be extraordinarily cool to explore.Then we heard emphatically from Lucasfilm that the series would not feature any characters from the films, or at least not major characters. That seemed to crack the door open a bit for Boba Fett since, despite his massive popularity (just look at my screen name), he's really not in the films much. It seems almost bizarre that his father is featured far more in the series than he is.So if there is a poster featuring Boba Fett, that would be really cool. I had also heard a rumour that he would apear in "a few episodes". A poster would confirm that.I think something that we all REALLY want to see is a mixture of rebel/Empire war episodes and Darth Vader hunting down and killing Jedi, probably with the help of Boba Fett.The "no major characters from the films" thing would seem to rule out Vader, but that's an old rumour so it could have changed.I think what we are likely to get is a close cadre of rebel fighters in the style Lucas has established in all his Star Wars endeavors. 4-5 companions and their adventures fighting a superior force. It's a formula that works and I'm fine with that. I just hope they mix in other things too.One of the coolest things about Clone Wars is that there are a couple of "groups" and it jumps between them. One episode might be about Commander Cody and his troopers and the next is about Anakin and Asoka while another might be about a Jedi Master leading a group of troopers. I really hope the series is like that.
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It is well within Lucas' rights to utterly ruin a beloved series of films and iconic characters that deeply resonated with millions of people on a profound emotional level so that he can make more money that he doesn't need.
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Looks like they are a little bit behind schedule. Just seems so bizarre that we haven't heard anything about something so massively major as a Star Wars TV series that must be pretty close to production, if not IN production right now.
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Esp. of the cowering wimpy-ass variety.
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See, 'cause that's where the moral lesson comes into this particular Campbellian space fairy tale / toy franchise marketing juggernaut.
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1. It actually ever happens.2. They keep Lucas as FAR AWAY AS POSSIBLE and hire some real writers. Perhaps people involved with BSG and/or Firefly?
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Jan 28, 2010 10:22:31 AM CST
Yeah, Cause Studio Interference Really Would Ruined the Prequels
by laserpants
Dude, did you see TPM and/or AOTC? What both of those films needed were HUGE forms of interference in the vein of, say, "What the fuck are you doing? This is terrible! Let's hire a real writer, please?"
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Aren't they some of the same writers who worked on BSG, Buffy, and Firely? I thought they were. Anyways...
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Lucas has been VERY involved in the stories featured in Clone Wars so he still "has it". I think he has a very talented team that know how to sculpt his ideas and focus them. I think that was George's problem with the prequels. I think he had a little help but it's mostly his writing. He has stated over and over again how much he hates writing because he just wants to get to the editing bay. Of course, he hates directing too.For the record, I completely understand this feeling because I am much the same way. I just want my vision realized. I want to see it come together and materialize. The actual work of birthing it is tedious and difficult. I do writing and art as part of my job in marketing. Trying to achieve what you are imaging can be stressful.Lucas has achieved what I and I'm sure tons of people in similar fields wish they could do by coming up with the big ideas and hiring a talented staff to realize them and then working with them to capture the spirit of what you imagined.Now, it's easy to say Lucas is lazy or stupid or not creative enough to do it himself. It's easy to say someone else he works with should get the credit. The fact is that person can't create these things without Lucas' inception and guidance. It's a symbiotic relationship he has with his artists. Should they get some credit? Of course, and they do. Should Should Irvin Kershner be seen as the saving grace of Empire Strikes Back? Have you seen his other films? That should answer your question.
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I understand, they must be doing something toward it already, probably working on the effects and I heard they were casting. I hope they cast unknowns, but sneak in the Emperor at some point.
All the indications are good so far, but they need to get their fingers ot of their asses and start letting the loyal fans who have stayed through some shit, that this is really happeing. -
Seriously, this guy has done more for cinema than you possibly imagine.
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But he's a TERRIBLE writer and, at best, a mediocre director. Sadly, his immature, egotistical, control freak nature REALLY got in the way of the prequels being the amazing works of art they should have been. (I loved ROTS, though.) A true artist and visionary knows his limitations and seeks help and input from others when needed... even Kubrick, who is a bona fide genius and super control freak, sought the input of many, many people from all walks of life, to craft his films; more or less all of which are amazing works of art. Lucas? Not so much.
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Then it will be AWFUL....full of slapstick comedy, the worst takes used. Horrible dialogue, and even stilted MOCAP performances. George Lucas ruins anything he touches.
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He has one line of dialogue and NO CHARACTER to speak of. He certainly looked cool, though. It takes more than looking neat to be iconic.Oh, and too bad McGregor as Obi Wan in TPM spends over an hour of the films running time sitting in a spaceship doing nothing whilst an 8 year old plays wacky racers with a stepinfetchit fishdogman.All that said, I do think that ROTS was awesome.
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writing the prequels. At one point he was going to hire Frank Darabont to help him, and I think he did a little, but George decided he wanted to do it himself.It can also be frustrating trying to communicate your ideas with someone who doesn't get it, or flat-out dissagrees. I've come up against this several times and I can imagine that may have happened with Frank Darabont.So in the end we get the prequels George wanted to give us, flaws and all. We'll never know how that fits on a scale of possibilities. Maybe if he had taken the advice of others some things would be fixed but other things could have gotten screwed up, or meanings lost in translation, or subtext skewed or character arcs not being clear enough.I think we all would like to think we could improve on the series, and maybe we could. But I will count on Lucas' creative instincts over mine any day of the week.
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Listen to the commentary where there is constant talk of Lucas' direction and guidance. hear how he took a generic concept and made it epic and far more meaningful. Stop being a fanboy hater and respect the fucking beard man.
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Jan 28, 2010 10:52:05 AM CST
Great, from the mind that gave us Howard the Duck and Phantom Me
by stalkeye
Fucking tool.
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Brain and Wendy Froud are great. But there are others out there just as good if not better. Tony Deterlizzi jump right to the top of any list of people working with this subject. Or the stuff that has come out of the Brownie Brown studio. And why not just throw into the mix all of the amazing Arthur Rackham material. A all Froud world would be wonderful to explore on screen...but they aren't the only source of imagery to draw from.
BTW...anyone heard anything recently about the new Dark Crystal movie? -
http://bit.ly/9H4uSg
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...we can expect Lucas to rape their childhoods in 20 years' time?
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TMNT had a saturday morning plot but I thought the animation was solid. I'll give this a chance.
P.S. I'd rather watch PHANTOM MENACE 100 times in a row than sit through Avatar again. -
GL didn't "invent" Howard the Duck. His involvement basically involved writing a check.
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Jan 28, 2010 11:12:51 AM CST
Describe Darth Maul without describing what he looks like
by ricarleite2
I rest my case.
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I said that since Avatar has been such a success, it won't be long before lucas decides to make yet another star wars film but shot in 3D. Ok so it's not Star Wars but I bet it will stink as much as the new episodes!
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You can't possibly be serious.
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A Zabrak kidnapped at a young age by Darth Tyrannus, Darth Maul was trained in the Jedi arts cruelly. Through dependancy techniques and the power of the dark side, Maul was shaped into the ultimate weapon. Seeking vengeance for the fallen Sith of old, his seething hatred of the Jedi Order fueled his every thought.Like every weapon, Darth Maul does not know patience or tactics. Though extremely powerful, he is unfocussed, a random missle with no guidance system. Thought almost unimaginably dedicated to the dark arts and fight training, he is a stranger to self-reflection. he cannot see beyond his own rage. he has a single-mindedness that blinds him to the world around him.All these flaws take their toll and lead to his ultimate demise. The jedi Obi-Wan Keobi wins the day because he is aware of his environment. Maul's sense of invincibility, his innability to construct a plan outside of face-to-face combat and his failure to consider the Jedi's options caused his death.ricarleite2, is that enough of a description of Darth Maul without mentioning what he looks like for you?
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About 2 more paragraphs I wrote about Darth Maul didn't post. I've never seen that before. Maybe I screwed up the paragraph tags somehow.
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In an advertorial published by LFL? Why not IN THE ACTUAL MOVIE?
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Does anybody have any idea?
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Seriously, if you knew nothing about Star Wars, and watched the films in the order we are now expected to... who is the antagonist of TPM? The protagonist?
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Why doesn't he show up until halfway through the first movie, then???
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It was Lucas' idea to make a movie based on HTD. Out of all the cool characters marvel has, he picks a fucking duck?no iron man, not even obscure titles like Nova, but some wise cracking duck.way to go georgie.
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The fact that Maul was kidnapped and trained cruelly was released in the Darth Maul Journal that came out at the same time as the film. Just because it's not in the movie doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that it hasn't been filmed.The rest of it, including the 2 paragraphs that didn't make the post, is all from the film. I basically talked about his all-consuming hatred of the Jedi which is implicit in his line of dialogue as well as his actions and expressions. I talked about his weaknesses such as the inability to construct a battle plan, particularly when his enemy disengages direct combat. This is on display both on Tatooine and Naboo. I mentioned his innability to determine Kenobi's options and his supreme arrogance. I talked about his loyalty to Tyrannus. That stuff is all implied in the film. We also know that Darth Maul's entire body is tattoed, though we only see his face in the film. My GOD what I wouldn't give for a Darth Maul movie! Christ, even an animated movie would be cool as hell!
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And totally wrong.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:02:03 PM CST
Wait, So The Jedi Are Passive Observers Akin To Droids???
by laserpants
I thought they were the Universe's most powerful magical space knights???
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They are what they are, flaws and all, but all three, no matter how good or bad you think them to be, gave us some classic SW moments and/or characters. Considering all the shit that has been released the past couple of years, at least the prequels told a story, yea they were effects heavy but who cares. GL didn't "rape" my childhood, and the whiny bitching fanboys who cry that he did can just STFU already. They are far from perfect, but I will take any of the prequels over Terminator Salvation, or Wolverine or TF2 or any of the other garbage of past years. I am not an apologist for the prequels, I acknowledge that they have flaws, but I love them as part of the SW universe, good or bad. Some people are just never pleased with anything and just enjoy bitching about shit. Go and live in your world of misery and I will enjoy all the SW I have been given, even if they are not all what I had wanted them to be.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:03:43 PM CST
The protagonist of TPM is in the title of the movie!
by revenge_of_fett
Darth Sideous is the ultimate antagonist of all 6 movies. I don't see how that is in any way obscured. All 6 movies are based on surmounting his evil plans. it's pretty fucking obvious dude. I don't know how you could walk out of any of those films without getting that.
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You gleaned all of that from, "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge." Really??? HOW? Dude, you read that elsewhere. Maul's backstory does not exist in the film.
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So he could die? Or prove to be strong with the midichlorians by not dying?
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Iconic looks are NOT enough - because while Boba Fett was cool personified in the Original Trilogy, with a handful of lines spoken in an Eastwood-style Western type drawl, and had no backstory to speak of, the Prequels then made him a bratty Kiwi kid whose dad Jango (nice name there, I don't think) has some of the worst lines in the entire Trilogy ("I'm just a simple guy trying to make his way in the universe," or some such shit), and although he's apparently a badass bounty hunter, goes out like a bitch in three seconds when Mace Windu gets hold of him.
And then they gave Boba that way less cool Kiwi accent in George's retooled Original Trilogy. So now the cool personified that was Boba Fett is NOW that brat who tried to do an evil laugh during the sonic-bombs-in-asteroid-field sequence of ATTACK OF THE CLONEs, and failed miserably. He is officially no longer cool, in the way that Vader, once a mysterious villain nobody could empathise with, is now a whiny bitch who turned to the Dark Side for no apparent reason whatsoever in the worst written scene in the entire Prequel Trilogy, let alone REVENGE OF THE SITH (seriously! Windu goes out like a bitch! Palpatine's face changes FOR NO REASON! Anakin turns to the Dark side WHY, again?? GAAHH!!). So now when I watch A NEW HOPE I just see a whiny teenager who can't act inside that fucking suit, and can't shake the mother of all anti-climaxes, that Vader scream near the end of SITH, which was the death knell for anything cool left in that character.
Lucas is systematically wrecking everything that was iconic about STAR WARS and INDY. Pray he doesn't get too involved in the live-action SW series - there's still the possibility of it being less than shit!! -
Aotc is Anakin....again, VERY OBVIOUSLY.ROTS is Ob-Wan Kenobi. DUH! How are you missing this shit. I think some of you guys just aren't schooled up in dramatic narrative. It's second nature to me so sorry if I'm being indelicate.
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not to mention Young Vader and the jedi swim.Even purists were dissapointed in this turd of a prequel.
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having watched the original movies; aka, the only ones that matter. It is virtually impossible to tell who the antagonist in TPM is without having seen the original trilogy.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:09:36 PM CST
You understand there's more to maul than dialogue right?
by revenge_of_fett
I already exaplined that his actions and expressions explain the rest. I'm sorry if that just seems alien to you, but it's true. We don't need a narrator to pop on screen ans say "See how arrogant Maul seems here? That's because he's actually arrogant. It's part of his character. Let's resume." isa that actually required for you to pick up on it? No wonder you don't like the films!
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In AOTC (which also sucks), we at least have a clearly identifiable protagonist. In ROTS Anakin is kind of both, which is actually pretty cool; as I said, I liked ROTS.I think the sad, unavoidable truth is that Lucas had one last good Star Wars movie in him -- ROTS -- but felt compelled to stretch it out to 3 movies because that way he could make more money. Which, hey, okay, that's his choice, but it also makes him a hack and a jerk.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:12:00 PM CST
Hah, I love how the tbers with SW user IDs are over defensive.
by stalkeye
It's so effin funny! Now all we need is browncoatjedi to show up and berate the anti TPM crowd.Ahh, Fanbois.
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We have a channel here in the UK that plays just House of Commons political debates all day long. Imagine the politicians being in the Imperial Senate on Coruscant, and you can spend all day long watching boring exposition-style dialogue with no interesting bits whatsoever. It'll be like the Prequels never ended.
Meanwhile, the rest of us will go back to watching the REAL SW trilogy - the old one - and pretend these CGI-afflicted piles of shit never existed.
Oh, and the only REALLY good STAR WARS stuff now out there are the novels by Matthew Stover. Reading the REVENGE OF THE SITH tie-in fucked with me completely - the book is far, far better than the movie, and makes me wonder why the good stuff in the book turned into turgid, badly-acted CGI-smothered bollocks onscreen... -
Dude, you've got to be kidding. You expect me to believe you read that entire 3 page Maul backstory from his facial expressions? Riiiight. Also, are you trying to insinuate that we've missed the subtlety of Star Wars?! Subtlety?? In Star Wars?! Come on, dude.
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Was the result of the lightning that was being deflected back at him by Mace Windu that was pretty obvious.Mace went out like a bitch? Anakin cut off his arm giving Palatine the chance to blow him away with his lightning had Anakin not betrayed him like that Palpatine would have been history.Anakin turned to the darkside because Palpatine had convinced him through half truths and (whatI believe to be) implanted dreams that the only way to save Padme was to learn powers only possible by embracing the dark side> he was blinded by love then became consumed with power.
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...The climactic duel on Mustafar - the one we fans have waited nearly 30 years to see - hadn't turned out looking like a badly made Playstation 2 game with dialogue so wooden and expository it would make Russell T Davies weep. Honestly, the effects on Mustafar were the level of the Hell/Malebolgia sequences in SPAWN. Fucking unforgivable.
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I guess I missed the part where he was "taken to the battle". Yes I have a very vivid memory of Qui-Gon putting him in a fighter and told to stay there.Are you asking why he was taken to Naboo? Did you somehow miss the very long explanation that Anakin was special and that Qui-Gon wanted to take him as a Padawan? Did it somehow escape you that Qui-Gon was refused this by the Jedi Council but he decided to defy them and take him as his unofficial Padawan? Qui-Gon was Anakin's master, albeit unofficially. That means, he sticks with Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon obviously knew pusuing the Viceroy was too dangerous, so he left him sealed in the cockpit of a fighter. As was explained in the film, once the Viceroy was detained the battle would be over, or nearly so. the actual "war" was being fought on the plains of Naboo and in orbit, which they were nowhere near. Qui-Gon left his apprentice in the safest possible place! Christ it's like some of you people spent the entire running time picking your noses and playing your Gameboys!
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I actually really like the final duel in ROTS and think it looks cool, but, that's just imho.
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That you haven't actually Seen The Phantom menace. No clue Darth Sideous is the antagonist? Are you fucking shitting me? Somehow all that talk of the Sith reforming just blew right by you? Did you somehow miss the hologram of Sideous telling the Nemoidians everything was proceeding according to plan? either you're just being obnoxious or you really have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
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Oh, the LIGHTNING did that to Palpatine! Except that he was as powerful as Windu at least, so could have deflected it, stored it (as Yoda did in CLONES), or just dissipated it...
Vader got way more Force lightning on him in JEDI, and his face was no different - just pasty and scarred from the mask. Yoda got the full force of Dooku's lightning in CLONES - no effect whatsoever on his face. That's no kind of an explanation.
This is the problem with Lucas. Not only does he NOT go back over his own mythology to check what rules he's ALREADY established, he then just ignored them and rewrites because he's just too damn lazy to do a good job in the first place. Not to mention having no clue why certain events - like Palpatine's face changing to evil - even happened in the first place. I'd have written in a scene where Palpatine is meditating in some temple of evil he's got hidden away somewhere, and have his face change be the result of an arcane rite of Sith lore going badly wrong - maybe a working to make him immortal, but it goes wrong somehow, and work the weakening body thing into the script. It would explain why such a powerful Sith Lord as Sidious does absolutely fuck-all in the Prequels physically until he has to fight Yoda in SITH - and that was only to be a crowdpleasing sequence (after how well received the Yoda vs Dooku duel in CLONES was). Or something equally dramatic, and much less sucky than lightning deflecting onto his face when the same kind of lightning has been used in multiple SW movies previously and NEVER caused facial disfigurement. Useless. -
While I do not agree with your views, I agree the ROTS novel was superior and gave a much better slower seduction of Anakin to the dark side. Many of the SW novels are excellent. Path Of Destruction is one I just started reading and I hear that Dark Lord is also very good as well."Meanwhile, the rest of us will go back to watching the REAL SW trilogy - the old one - and pretend these CGI-afflicted piles of shit never existed." I don't know where I said that the prequel trilogy was better than the original, because the OT is and always will be better, anyone knows that. I just don't hate them like yourself and many others on here. As I already said, I know they have many flaws, I guess I am more forgiving of them, and perhaps I shouldn't be, but they are what they are, bitching about them is not gonna change them.
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Sith, in Scottish Gaelic is pronounced Shee, and means Faery. So could this be a classic Lucus misdirection? Old Republic? Sith Lords? The Rise of Vader lead in to live action series? Just a thought.
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You asked for a DESCRIPTION. I pr4ovided that. Apparently you don't know the difference between backstory and description. I gave you a 2 sentence backstory and a 4 paragraph DESCRIPTION!
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Man, I just can't spell today.
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whoever likes The Clones should get shot in the nuts and ROTS was underwhelming and ugly. Phantom Menace, goofy but came the closest to capturing the New Hope feel in some parts.
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Maybe I'd get on baord the two trilogies actually being one 6-movie saga if George had paid enough attention to it to not have mid-tier characters change NATIONALITY, fer Chrissakes!! He didn't even remember that Boba Fett was NOT a New Zealander in the Original Trilogy! And don't even get me started on the Clone Army somehow turning into a conscripted army in the Original Trilogy...
Somewhere between 1983 and 1999., Lucas lost all the creativity that made his original movies so great. He's a decent production designer these days... but that's ALL. -
Jan 28, 2010 12:26:35 PM CST
Oh, Okay, So The Antagonist of TPM Doesn't Actually Do Anything?
by laserpants
Sort of like how Obi Wan spends 90 minutes sitting down looking bored. Gotcha. So it's a clearly identified, totally boring antagonist. Check. Wasn't it cool how in the orginal Star Wars, you know, the good ones, you knew who the bad guy was right away and he was iconic and awesome and scary? You know, child's fantasy movie and all that? Yeah. Those were the days.
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The cult that never dies, eh?Spud McSpud, I'm quite serious in this - explain to me exactly how that ROTS novelisation is better than the movie itself? I've heard others claim this book's 'greatness' as well. Personally, I though it was a supremely shitty novelisation, and actually worse than the movie itself (which is pretty good, and vastly underrated). I seem to remember the novelisation spending about 100 pages on complete fucking trivia (the opening battle) instead of the real dramatic stuff, then reducing Anakin's motivations to wanting to become a Jedi Master so that he could access the Jedi holocrons in the library for information about how to save Padme from death. That's a greatly over-simplified and literal minded motivation than contained in the actual movie, where it was apparent that he was power hungry and a control freak, and that the Padme stuff was just an excuse. I also remember a shockingly bad part of the novel where Anakin dispatches the separatists while cracking ridiculous puns, something that was far more cheesy than anything that Lucas dreamed up - the scene is played straight in the movie. I am mystified why that shitty Stover novelisation is held in high regard - not to mention why the movie itself is held in such low regard (objectively speaking it it a far better movie than Return of the Jedi). Most of the EU stuff is complete crap and not worth the effort.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:29:32 PM CST
Hating on someone because they cant see the arrogance in darth m
by piratebill
Seriously?
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Understand your points and don't necessarily disagree with them, like I said, I guess I am just more forgiving. There are things in the PT that don't make a lot of sense, I have never denied that. I just chose to take them as they were, flaws and all, because for me, I will take mediocre SW over none any day, and like I already said, I enjoyed the PT more than most and I am not sorry for that. I am not blind to its flaws, just a bit too forgiving of them that's all. There is a difference between a fanboy who tries to defend the prequels to the point of making them seem like visionary film making, and someone like me who can enjoy them despite the many flaws they have. I don't blindly defend the PT, never have.
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You're so right. All the prequels suck when you consider the budgets. Hayden's acting alone puts these films firmly in the Shite column. It's funny how one guy on here suggested that they weren't as bad as TF2 or Terminator Salvation. I would say that the prequels and those turds all belong to the same group of inexcusable turds inflicted on humanity!
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You seriously ahve no idea what "antagonist" is do you? It's not "the guy with the lightsaber", it's the "source of conflict". Seriously, I am not going to sit here and teach you dramatic narrative. Come back when you ahve a fucking clue because you look like a fucking clown right now.
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I'm not gonna tell you what you should and shouldn't watch, but my two cents worth is that the OT were awesome start to finish (I even thought the Ewoks were - not great, but just about okay. They were the representation of an overpowered primitive race that could overcome a technologically superior invading race, and it just about worked (loved the logs-vs-AT-ST sequences!). That's the difference for me - 1997 CGI-afflicted Special Editions aside (fucking HATED the new Sy Snootles band sequence in JEDI, and the new ending with Coruscant added nothing), the Original Trilogy didn't flag or get boring ANYWHERE. Now the Prequels... Explaining the Force as a midichlorian count in the blood, the ridiculously long political squabbling sequences (there is literally NOTHING less interesting than watching politicians argue politely with each other), the CGI sequences where nothing happens, the pointless and meandering way the action scenes were shot (the final space battle in TPM is confusing as hell), the pointless characters (yep, Jar Jar binks, among others)... Lucas just inverted everything cool about the other movies and then over-explained everything, which contributed to ruining them further.
Yeah, I'm an old miserable bastard who will never understand why anybody enjoyed those movies. The fact that they had such sequences of near-classic greatness as the saber fight in MENACE, the pod race in MENACE, the arena battle and ensuing war in CLONES, the opening battle in SITH and that marvellous Order 66 sequence in SITH... There were moments of greatness on par with the Original Trilogy, which just makes it more painful to see the disparity in creativity and enthusiasm and originality between the OT and the far less up-to-par PT.
I wish I'd never seen them... At least that way I wouldn't think Temeura Morrison's voice is Bob's, and that Vader is a whiny bitch who can't act... -
Jan 28, 2010 12:36:46 PM CST
Also, one thing about TPM is absolute genius
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
and probably went over the heads of the casual audience. The whole film's plot is nothing more than a chess game engineered by Palpatine to allow him (the 'Phantom Menace' of the title) to ascend from the position of Senator to Supreme Chancellor. So much so, in fact, that in the 'victory celebration' at film's end, the music is actually palpatine's theme played backwards. It's a fucking brilliant and subversive inversion of New Hope's finale, where the ceremony was straight forward and obvious. Here we are celebrating the coronation of a galactic Hitler - and none of the main characters knows it! If Menace had had as compelling and enjoyable an action adventure plot on the surface as New Hope did, coupled with this duplicitous back story (which you have to read between the lines for), it would have been a masterpiece.
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Nice to hear ROTS love, I don't get the bashing on that at all, I can understand the first two, but ROTS is an awesome movie IMO. I said earlier that the book was superior but let me clarify, I thought it was superior in the sense that IMO it was better written than the movie. Regardless, it was an awesome fucking movie, no doubts there (cant believe I just quoted Watto LOL) I do agree also about it being better than ROTJ, even though I loved ROTJ, I rank ROTS as my third fav SW film.
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Star Wars is dead in that it is has been stripped of all that made it good in the first place. It's all a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy with consistently poorer characters and stories stuck on.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:41:39 PM CST
'the original trilogy didn't get boring anywhere'
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I beg to differ. The Ewok village scenes in Jedi are excruciatingly dull. Give me the prequels' political scenes any day (by far the best things about episodes 1 to 3).
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Stover gets in the heads of the characters and makes their actions actually feel real, rather than them doing dumb shit because the script needs them to. The Anakin motivations made more sense literally because the Anakin on film was such a whiny bitch he was too annoying to be scary, and he didn't come across as powerful so much as spoiled - so when he dispatches the Jedi you think "How can he do that. he's a wuss!" in the movies, but the book gives us a more focussed, more motivated Anakin - and yes, the fact that it's a book spares us (mercifully) from Hayden's wooden delivery and performance. And I LIKED the idea that all this stems from Anakin's visions, seeing his mother die and having visions that this would happen to Padme - the idea of losing the two most important people in your life the same way would be so overpowering at his age that Anakin WOULD spend all his time trying to cheat the vision and beat death - even to the point of betraying the Jedi, who are portrayed as ignoring him, which is the impression I got in the the movies (barely) - that the people who REALLY care for Anakin are Padme, Obi-Wan, and his late mother - no-one else is important to him.
And yes, some of the one-liners when he exterminates Jedi are very leaden, but I smell some Lucas revisions there.
Read SHATTERPOINT, the SW EU novel that explains where Mace Windu came from, and his reaction on having to go back during the war to prevent them getting involved in the Clone Wars. There's more cool stuff in there about Windu than in all three Prequels put together. That book is fantastic, and Stover is far and away the most talented SW author of them all. -
That's something me and my friends have discussed many times, Palpatine's genius plan. They guy got into the highest position he could have by manipulation of the Trade Federation and just about everyone else around him, and then he creates a fucking war for christ's sake A FUCKING WAR, damn the guy was a brilliant mad genius. His patting Anakin's head at the end of TPM was creepy, that grin on his face said it all, it's like he knew Anakin was already his. God he even had Dooku telling Obi Wan THE FUCKING TRUTH about how Darth Sidious was controlling the senate, it was the fucking truth and Obi Wan (understandably) did not believe him. Genius, pure genius.
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I had no idea that the music at the end of Phantom Menace was actually The Emperor's theme played backwards. I think there is a lot in TPM that doesn't get the credit it deserves.
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Not in my fuckin' universe, pal!
God... The only interesting bit in all that boring political nonsense is the bit where a bunch of ETs can be seen in the bottom left corner of the screen, just beside the Wookie delegation... -
Jan 28, 2010 12:46:19 PM CST
Nice to feel some PT love, for a fucking change, thanks fellas
by rogueleader66
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I still want to watch space battles and some wise-cracking dialogue over some boring-ass nonsense about trade routes and taking on temporary powers of the Senate blah blah fuck I've fallen asleep. It's a STAR WARS MOVIE, not fucking FROST/NIXON!!
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There's definitely a lot of things in the PT that were looked over. After so many were disappointed by TPM I think they were just looking for things to complain about. Not to say they don't have flaws, of course they do, but I think there is a lot to like as well.
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It's got great action scenes, some decent acting, the political intigue is interesting, the palpatine/anakin scenes, contrary to what people say are well written (Tom Stoppard helped out there) - the opera scene is one of the best acted and written scenes in the whole saga. Opening 30 minutes, Order 66, final light saber (better and more psychologicaly complex than maul v obi/qui gon in Menace,), final shot of the twin suns bringing the saga full circle. And of course, Lucas wasn't afraid to go dark and end on a down note. In think the one thing that woyuld have sealed the deal is if Lucas had kept in Jar Jar's death, which I think wa sthe original plan for the character, whether at the hands of clone troopers during a massacre of rebel polticians or whatever. That would have really been a nihilistic iversion of Menace, where all those who mocked the character 6 years earlier would have had it thrown in their faces. I like the fact that Menace is a very kid-oriented film, and then Ep.3 is just as miserable as fuck.
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exactly have prized dialogue either. There is huge amount of creativity and thought put into those movies and people should try to focus on that more. In my opinion, of course.
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Jan 28, 2010 12:56:30 PM CST
The Guy w/the Lightsabre Who Doesn't Use It Until The 3rd Movie?
by laserpants
Oh! Compelling! And seriously, man, do you have money invested in LFL? Cause the only person who looks like a clown is the guy who is clearly having a rageaholic nervous breakdown. In case you're not sure who I mean, I'll employ some Star Wars esque "subtlety" -- it's you, Fett, it's you.
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Maybe they can get Carrie Fisher back to reprise her song from "The Star Wars Holiday Special"! :(
Just retire already, George...you've obviously not given a bantha poodoo since 1985. -
It was fucking brilliant. Although I don't think it always progressed exactly as he intended, he was able to fall back on other plans he had in place and make everything work out just like he wanted.For example, I think he expected Qui-Gon to die on Tatooine. He may have even expected to acquire Anakin there and begin his training. I think he also wanted Amidala so he could take her back to Naboo, not to "force a settlement" as is implied in the film, but to hold her hostage.With Palpatine the Naboo representative in the Senate he could beg for reinforcements at which point he could reveal the clone army.I think Obi-Wan discovering the army was a mistake as well. I'm pretty sure he wanted the Jedi in the dark except for when Tyrannus tells Kenobi the Senate is under control of the Sith.Once he turns the Jedi against the Senate he can decalre them "enemies of the State".But I shouldn't even bother pointing this brilliance out because most nose-pickers around here only say "Jar Jar was stupid....duuuuuh."
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"God politics is boring. Reminds me of the Greek unit we did in History class. *long, drawn-out sigh*""Hey look! It's E.T.!"
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But who we know is the main evil guy... BECAUSE OF THE ORIGINAL MOVIES ???Rest my case. Unless you have seen the original movies, there is no way to identify the antagonist in TPM. Thank you for clarifying and underscoring my point.
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I love in ROTS how the tone shifts so radically at Anakins turning. It goes from what starts as a good, sometimes lighthearted SW adventure to a really dark downbeat movie, and I too, loved the fact that it ended on a downer. If it had somehow not ended that way, it would not have been as good as it was.
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I loved ROTS
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I knew from the get go that the "Phantom" menace was Papatine/Sidious, and I didn't need the OT to tell me that. I don't know what you were watching, but anyone paying attention to TPM could figure out that Palpatine and Sidious were one and the same and the driving force behind everything. No disrespect intended.
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HE SAYS IT'S HIS PLAN! You know, like I SAID. You CAN'T be this stupid!
laserpants: "Everybody knows antagonists have lightsabers! How can palpatine be the antagonist in the first movie if he doesn't use a lightasaber until the third movie?!" -
Jan 28, 2010 1:06:36 PM CST
It matters not a jot if you've seen the OT or not
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
If you haven't, then it goes over your head, and Palpatine revealing himself in Sith is a surprise. If you've already seen the OT - which most above a certain age had - then there's an extra layer of underscore to the main plot. Lucas designed the thing to be watched both ways. Sure, it's intended to be watched in order, but realistically people HAD already seen the OT, so Lucas wasn't going to let that get in the way. Ditto having no explanation of The Force in Menace, but instead it gets broken down only in ep. 4, very peculiar if you're theoretically watching these things in order.
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Revenge? Okay. And he wants revenge because... WHY??? Just cause that's what evil guys do? If that's you're idea of "brilliant", I kind of feel sorry for you, Fett.
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"Dipfuck?" Seriously, are you Lucas' boyfriend or something, cause you are taking this WAY too seriously and personally.
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It's just now occurring to me that you actually watched the entire prequel trilogy like a child in Wal-Mart that doesn't know where his mommy is! Jesus fucking Christ you are a goddamned phenominon!
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is universal domination, plain and simple. Do we really have to know WHY he wants to rule the galaxy? No, he just wants to, and eventually does.
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Jan 28, 2010 1:14:24 PM CST
He wants revenge becuase he's a bad motherfucker, that's why!
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Not because the Jedi hunted down the Sith in the year 1000 Old Republic, blah blah. Lucas couldn't be bothered putting that exposition in the actual movie. Who cares? Palpatine is a bad 'un, he's power hungry, he wants vengeance, natch!
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Lucas is worth $3bn. He finances his own films. He pretty much has complete creative freedom. Cameron is worth about $500m? He has to bring in investors to finance his films. When he was making Avatar he had to walk the Fox suits through what he was trying to achieve on a weekly basis. Whereas Lucas can pretty much do whatever the fuck he wants and is answerable to no one. So, in the battle of the movie moghuls, I'd say Lucas is in a sweeter position. And the reason? Merchandising. That's where the money really comes from, not box office. SW has sold toys for over thirty years. How many kids do you see playing with Na'Vi dolls? I don't Lucas will ever be able to make a movie that will beat Avatar's gross, not anymore, but when it comes to merchandise Cameron cannot hope to compete.
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I have to go check if hell froze over real quick, BRB.
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Btw, why do the Sith want revenge again? Please explain to me where this NARRATIVELY ESSENTIAL element exists in the movies. Not in the EU, but in the ACTUAL MOVIES.
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It's not so much about revenge, cause you'd need to establish some kind of reason for wanting vengence, so we can only assume, that the Sith want to kill everybody 'cause what they do, man! It's their business model! Killing is their business and business is good!
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I'm going to give you a break on Palpy's motivation because although it is strongly hinted at, it is not explicitely stated.Lucas is using this mythology to teach us about the human condition. He is actually teaching the tenets of Daoism. That is that we are connected to everything. The "Living Force" as described by Qui-Gon Jin.The Light Side of the force is about purity of thought and reasoning. It is about compassion and justice. It is about finding your place in the universe and giving of yourself to help others.The Dark Side of the force is the exact opposite of this. It is about selfishness and all it's itterations. These include greed and obsession. In other words, wanting everything for yourself without regard for others.Now "personal attachment" is a bit of a conundrum Lucas addresses very pointedly in AOTC and ROTS. It is Anakin's downfall because his love for Padme warps into obsession. It transistions from selflessness to selfishness. That is an uncomfortably easy transition to make.So to answer your question directly "Laserpants", Palpy's "plan" is ultimate selfishness. It is to crush the entire universe under his thumb.
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Yeah, I should give up championing the OT above the PT because the PT was so creative, wasn't it?
Darth Sidious. Darth Maul. Darth Tyranus. Darth Vader. Wow. I really hope you're not one of those who bitched about names like "Crematoria" in CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK, because all that's missing from that pantheon of galactic all-time most creative character names EVER are Darth Badass, Darth Fuckyouup, Darth Dangerous, Darth Cruel, Darth Nasty and Darth Sneaky. FFS, you're championing a trilogy of movies that can't even be arsed to think up decent names for the bad guys - we'll just knowck two letter off the beginning of their main character trait! Darth Insidious... No, sounds too much like Insidious... SIDIOUS! That's IT! And for the muscle, the physical incarnation of Sith power, something strong... Darth Rage... Darth Attack... Darth Wrestle... Darth Savage... Darth Maul... That's IT! DARTH MAUL!!
At this rate, the TV series will follow the adventures of Lucas Plotbringer, wielder of the only Exposiblade, a lightsabre of incredible expository power. And tht's before we meet... DARTH VILLAIN!
PTs = EPIC FAIL. OT FTW!! -
Yeah, I should give up championing the OT above the PT because the PT was so creative, wasn't it?
Darth Sidious. Darth Maul. Darth Tyranus. Darth Vader. Wow. I really hope you're not one of those who bitched about names like "Crematoria" in CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK, because all that's missing from that pantheon of galactic all-time most creative character names EVER are Darth Badass, Darth Fuckyouup, Darth Dangerous, Darth Cruel, Darth Nasty and Darth Sneaky. FFS, you're championing a trilogy of movies that can't even be arsed to think up decent names for the bad guys - we'll just knowck two letter off the beginning of their main character trait! Darth Insidious... No, sounds too much like Insidious... SIDIOUS! That's IT! And for the muscle, the physical incarnation of Sith power, something strong... Darth Rage... Darth Attack... Darth Wrestle... Darth Savage... Darth Maul... That's IT! DARTH MAUL!!
At this rate, the TV series will follow the adventures of Lucas Plotbringer, wielder of the only Exposiblade, a lightsabre of incredible expository power. And tht's before we meet... DARTH VILLAIN!
PT = EPIC FAIL. OT FTW!! -
Yeah, I should give up championing the OT above the PT because the PT was so creative, wasn't it?
Darth Sidious. Darth Maul. Darth Tyranus. Darth Vader. Wow. I really hope you're not one of those who bitched about names like "Crematoria" in CHRONICLES OF RIDDICK, because all that's missing from that pantheon of galactic all-time most creative character names EVER are Darth Badass, Darth Fuckyouup, Darth Dangerous, Darth Cruel, Darth Nasty and Darth Sneaky. FFS, you're championing a trilogy of movies that can't even be arsed to think up decent names for the bad guys - we'll just knowck two letter off the beginning of their main character trait! Darth Insidious... No, sounds too much like Insidious... SIDIOUS! That's IT! And for the muscle, the physical incarnation of Sith power, something strong... Darth Rage... Darth Attack... Darth Wrestle... Darth Savage... Darth Maul... That's IT! DARTH MAUL!!
At this rate, the TV series will follow the adventures of Lucas Plotbringer, wielder of the only Exposiblade, a lightsabre of incredible expository power. And tht's before we meet... DARTH VILLAIN!
PT = EPIC FAIL. OT FTW!! -
If the same people slamming the PT think that Avatar is a brilliant movie. Don't get me wrong, I have said this before, Avatar is a stunning achievement in many ways. But in many ways it is exactly what some PT haters call those movies. Wall to wall CGI, and to boot the story is weak, it's recycled. I can take the belief that it's not the story but the way you tell it, and it is told in Avatar in a pretty damn impressive way. I have heard some say that the CGI in Avatar is superior to that of the PT. True, it is. Cameron also has the advantage of working with better technology and had 5 more years since the last SW movie for the tech to be perfected. Giovani Ribisi in Avatar is Carter Burke from Aliens. Cameron recycled one of his own characters. Now some might say I am saying any of the PT movies are inferior to Avatar, which is not the case at all. I am simply saying that many of the flaws and bad things that PT haters point out are present in Avatar, Avatar just looks a hell of a lot better is all. Just curious if the PT haters are embracing Avatar.
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Dammit, Harry, I swear even my fucking prehistoric hamster-on-a-wheel 16GB piece-of-shit PC doesn't understand your site's HTML. Did George Lucas write a fucking prequel to it or something??
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The guy got supremely lucky with the original Star Wars that he was surrounded with talent that could make the OT work. He was exposed horribly with the weak ass prequels and Cameron just a few years later showed us all how devoid of talent Lucas really is.
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Has happened to me before too, and the absence of a fucking edit button is VERY fucking annoying.
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Oh, I accept that Sidious is evil and his plan is to kill everyone 'cause he's evil, but why does he want revenge? Of course, I can assume that the Jedi must've wronged the Sith in some way... but why is this not explored in the actual films? Face it, man, it's weakly set-up. Now, I say this all with the caveat that I think ROTS is great, and I think Sidious' speech to Anakin is one of the greatest scenes in the entire series, including the OT.
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or even AS GOOD as the OT. All I said was that I liked the political stuff in the PT and made fun of you for seemingly not understanding why it was in the film.
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Remember that one? Was supposed to be played by Christopher Walken, I think. What's wrong with the prequel names? Stop bitching just to bitch, you bitches.Grando Calrissian FTW!!!
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Lucas may be worth more, but Cameron has the bragging rights. Lucas must be irked by the fact the Cameron has the one, two position on the all time top box office list.
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gives a fuck about revenge. I think that's just something he uses on his apprentices to justify his actions.s explanation that the Sith had been gone for centuries.
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Jan 28, 2010 1:39:18 PM CST
"Michael Bay would never under deliver action in an action movie
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Bay's 'action' is GARBAGE. This is the biggest problem with Bay, not his lack of story telling abilities, lack of intelligence, use of racial stereotypes and inappropriate humor, or any of these things - it's that the one thing he is supposedly good at he absolutely sucks at. Incomprehensible shit that resembles the cameraman having an epileptic fit. Never, ever compare Bay's action to Cameron's. And no, the final battle in Avatar was EPIC, and very well done. Could have been longer, I grant you, but in no way, shape or form, weak. It was the Ewok battle in Jedi done right, sans silly humor and bullshit.
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Jan 28, 2010 1:40:49 PM CST
In short, Bay has under delivered his action
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
EVERY DAMN TIME.
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Adjust the numbers for inflation dude. Gone With The Wind is #1 far and away, and Star Wars is number two. Titanic #6, Avatar #26. Remember movies in 1977 were like 3 bucks. Today, especially with 3D prices, they are about triple that. In fact when adjusted for inflation, Lucas has 5 movies in the top 20 of all time, Cameron....1 This is not a reflection on either one of them as film makers, but you brought up bragging rights, and Lucas is actually the one with them.
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I thought AVATAR was exciting, fun, visually amazing, narratively simplistic, corny, heavy handed, derivative, and awesome despite it's flaws. In short, a b-movie megablockbuster classic on par with the original Star Wars which no doubt also look hopelessly dated in 10 years, but probably won't generate the same nostalgia that Star Wars did since it was the one that started it all.
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I also added that although I don't recall it ever being plainly stated in the PT that the Sith were defeated by the Jedi, I don't know how you could come to any other conclusion based on Maul's line of dialogue. Also Sideous says something about "regaining our place" something or other. So the Sith were "large and in charge" or at least on equal footing with the Jedi at some point in history, which Windu also eludes to when Obi-Wan phones in. And because of the Jedi specifically according to Maul, they were rendered extinct, or assumed so at least. That is all directly from the film.
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Cameron has pussed out. Avatar is is a movie about crying over a fucking tree.
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Transformers does not have good action scenes - just fast cut shit on a shinola - and neither did Matrix Revolutions particularly. Nobody can fuck with King Jim when it comes to action.AMP suit > Matrix powers suits. Very childish, but also true!
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Bay wasn't always like that though, I thought the action in Bad Boys was pretty good, and it didn't have all the super fast edits and shaky cam of his more recent efforts. Even the stuff in The Rock wasn't as headache inducing as the constant camera movement present in Transformers 1 & 2. He probably saw the Bourne movies and thought "Wow this is cool now I am gonna a be like that" even though his movies can't compare to the Bourne films.
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Jan 28, 2010 1:48:08 PM CST
Oh, So This Totally Awesome Jedi Vs. Sith War Is Vaguely Hinted
by laserpants
How exciting! How "subtle!" Oh, Jack, you make it too easy, man.
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His action is garbage, always has been. Forget the comparisons to Cameron, even on any terms his action is crap. Lucas is a much better action director - you can actually follow the sequences in the prequels, and they escalate logically.You know, when that AsimovLives fella was ranting about how there were Bay defenders on this site, I thought he was out of his mind since I resoned that most hated Bay, but now I see that he may have been right!
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Not very compelling, never explicitly stated. How awesome would it have been if the context was actually there for us on the screen? And why wasn't it?
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The way you describe Avatar is pretty spot on, and it is exactly how a lot of SW prequel haters describe the PT films, yet I have seen some of them (not naming manes I don't do that) declare Avatar to be a far superior movie even though it has the same qualities they claim the PT movies to have. Hypocrisy defined.
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Hunting down and killing of Jedi is only vaguely hinted at in A New Hope. "How exciting! How subtle!"
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and the entire rebel war against the Empire. I mean come on, man.
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...wouldn't we be on like 2nd or 3rd edition of Blu-Ray Star Wars? Instead I've got 6 year old DVD's.
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Yes, I recognised the Bad Boys 2 'homage' immediately. For fuck's sake, if you're going to steal, steal from the best, not the worst!
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Next.
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That the PT all but retconned all of it is another issue.
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I don't recall anything like that in ANH.
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I think you need to pick an argument and stick with it.
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Ok I'm not a fan of Avatar but lets just make this simple. When the action sequences eventually happened in Avatar, I actually cared for the Characters and even the Tree that got destroyed. It's that connection that makes it worth seeing. I didn't care for any of the characters in the Star Wars Prequels, therefore the action was pointless. I'm not saying there wasn't some well executed scenes and I certainly don't include the original star wars movies. They were great even when flawed!
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Oh I aint no Bay defender, I have always said his movies were thin storied excuses to blow shit up. I admit to enjoying some of his films, but I am hardly one of his defenders. One thing that has always irked me about Bay is that the music in all his movies sounds exactly the same. I take his movies for what they are, and maybe I enjoy some of his stuff more than it deserves to be, but he is hardly a good film maker. He just knows how to deliver shit people obviously want to see. I still cant beleive that TF2 made as much money as it did. Peopl go from intelligent good movies like The Dark Knight and Iron Man one year to TF2 the next. You would think people would be demanding the kind of quality that IM and TDK delivered, but I think maybe I give people too much credit. Like Tommy Lee Jones said in MIB "A person is smart, people are dumb"
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If Attack of the clones was Episode 1, and ROTS was epidode 2, and a story about the jedi getting slaughted by vader was episode 3, THEN the prequel trilogy would have been good. TPM just showed us Darth Vader's troubled childhood, completely ruining cinema's greatest badass. Also, the Empire should be hundreds of years old. As it stands now, the "Empire" lasted for like 20 years and then ended. That's not an empire. It's a political fad. The emperor should have been as old as yoda, having ruled the galaxy for like 600 years.
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Not saying anything on the other hand? Not so much.
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But Palpatine's motivation has never been one of them until today. Since, "Laserpants", you seem to be the only one with a problem with it, despite KNOWING the history anyway, I guess it's a complete non-issue.NEXT!
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The word comes from the EU, but the idea comes from the OT -- again, EXPLICITY STATED IN THE FILM. Next.
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From the OT that this was "EXPLICITELY STATED" because I don't remember it.
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Because I saw the original films.Next.
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Paraphrasing, but can't get much more explicit than that can it?Next.
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Can you point to the purge being "EXPLICITELY STATED" in the OT or not? Because, you know, without that, Palpy's motivations are a complete mystery and destroy the OT in entirety.
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I also have a problem with Palpatines motivation. It has been pointed out in the past too. LaserPants made a very plausible argument.
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I don't have the lines memorized, but Obi Wan does say, EXPLICITLY, that the Jedi were hunted down and murdered by the Empire and Darth Vader. Did you see the movie?
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Did you forget what we were talking about? We were talking about why Palpatine is an oppressive fuck. You were saying his motivations were CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR in the OT. Because according to you, if there isn't a 20-minute dissertation on it in the film, ther entire trilogy is SHIT! So Sherlock, where is it?
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But I never stuck my head in a hornet's nest!
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Jan 28, 2010 2:14:00 PM CST
Since I haven't researched the EU as extensively as YOU HAVE
by revenge_of_fett
Despite apparently resnting it, I didn't know what the "PURGE" was. funny how you completely destroy your own arguments.
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This discussion is getting nasty and does not need to. Just try and make your points without turning this into and insult fest. Don't we have enough of these on here already? God every single TB that had anything to do with Star Trek turned into that, and frankly I am sick of it.
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"Lucas must be irked that Cameron has the one, two positions in the all time box office". Not strictly true if your talking about the ALL TIME box office which adjusts for inflation. Avatar is sitting outside the top 20. If you adjust for the inflated 3D ticket prices as well, Avatar is even further down. In fact SW ep 4 is above both BOTH Titanic and Avatar. So I don't think Lucas is irked.
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OR SHUT.THE FUCK.UP!
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I did say the word "purge" was never used, BUT, Obi Wan does EXPLICITLY say that the Jedi were hunted down and killed by Vader and the Empire in ANH, literally within the first half hour or so. Next.
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Being hunted down and killed pig-fucker! I'm asking you to explain Palpatine's motivation in the OT since this is so essential to you in the PT. Can you do that or not?
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In the OT we know that the Jedi were hunted down and murdered by Vader and Empire. It's stated in the first half hour of the first movie. In the PT, we have NO IDEA why Palpatine wants revenge. We can assume they were wiped out by the Jedi, but it's never explicitly stated and we never really know. Period. Of course, the EU has all kinds of Jedi vs. Sith war stuff, but NONE of that is in the actual films. Sorry!
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OR SHUT.THE FUCK.UP!Ihave3 NEVER asked you for the Jedi's motivation, which you fucked up by the way, the jedi don't want revenge for "the purge".
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IMO, the only Bay movie that was even close to being good was The Rock, and that was less to do with Bay and more to do with the chemistry between Cage and Connery, not to mention Ed Harris going above the call of duty and actually attempting a serious performance in such a farce. But the action in even that movie was pretty lousy and incomprehensible, although Bay has gotten much, much worse in that department in the intervening years. That ridiculous car chase in San Francisco! What the hell did that have to do with the main ? That was just Bay saying "well, it's going to take about an hour and a bit to get through all this exposition before they even get to Alcatraz, so where can I throw in some explosions so the cheap seats don't fall asleep?"Adelai Niskai, maybe so. The Clone Wars perhaps should have formed the entire backdrop for the prequels like the Galactic Civil War spanned the whole OT. The timing's kind of all out for the prequels anyway. Obi Wan's only 57 years old by the time of ANH - that sun really aged him (although to be fair, I think Guinness was only 64 in actuality). And Aunt Beru - good grief! Anakin's now too young as it stands in ROTJ - if he was to have been the age of Sebastian Shaw, he should have been in his 30's or 40's in the prequels.Lucas locked himself into a tight corner with some of his material; the need to cross-reference and explain the origins of everything really over-stuffed and hemmed in the PT.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:28:00 PM CST
But The Main Antagonist In The OT Isn't Palpatine, It's Vader
by laserpants
And his motivation, and that of his allies (including Palpaatine, of course), which is stated explicitly, many times, by various members of the Empire, is to maintain control of the Empire and crush the Rebellion. Why? 'Cause they're uptight Nazis and the Rebellion are a bunch freaky teenagers, space drug dealers, and hippies who hang out with wizards, sasquatches, n' shit cause they're the good guys. A thin motivation, but a motivation nonetheless.
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he can finally have his virtual actors and remake his Star Wars films as original intended. "I'm sorry you fell in love with incomplete films" (paraphrasing from the EW article on him when the "original" Star Wars was added as a bonus to newly released SW retooled again DVDs)
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Without Palpatine turning to the camera and "EXPLICITELY STATING" his motivation.
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was Lucas' war cry in taking your hard earned money. Suckers.
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You have no idea what you are talking about. Vader is not the main antagonist of the OT. he is an AGENT of the main antagonist. Vader is only carrying out the ORDERS of the main antagonist. Christ TARKIN is ordering Vader around, how can he be the main ANTAGONIST?Do you spend your days smearing shit all over your face and seeing how much you can lick off? You're a fucking monkey with a typewriter!
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I never said the Jedi wanted revenge, did I? Now you're just making crap up cause you painted yourself into a corner. The motivation of what few Jedi there are left in the universe is to defeat the Empire and restore peace to the galaxy, right? Isn't that why Obi Wan gets involved in the first place? Isn't that why Leia reaches out to him? You saw the movie, right? It's pretty damn explicit. The threat is right there in your face in the first frame of the film. You understand why these guys need to be stopped -- they're evil, choke motherfuckers left and right, blow up planets, and manhandle space princess and the like. Did you not get that? Seriously, man, you're just bending over backwards to defend a BAD film. TPM is indefensible as anything other than an efx workout. Period.
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Never mind that adjusted for inflation/ suposed '3D ticket mark up' crap. Avatar is the all time top grosser, and that' sthe ned of it. You're type simply can't stand that fact. The box office doesn't go by inflation - not only because it isn't a reliable judge for a number of factors, but you simply cannot change the rules while the game is in motion. By the standards of inflation, Titanic was never the all time champ anyway, and nor was Star Wars or ET either. Gone with the Wind remains the champion. However, inflation is a simplistic means of trying to re-assess the takings. I notice no one brought up this subject when TDK or Star Wars or anything previous was cleaning up; just the bitch-slapped Avatar haters and their extreme jealousy. You lost; now it's time to retire.Lucas (and Spielberg) should be very worried indeed. They have lost their audience to Cameron, Jackson, Nolan, et al., not to mention big franchises like Pirates and Harry Potter.
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"'Cause they're uptight Nazis and the Rebellion are a bunch freaky teenagers, space drug dealers, and hippies who hang out with wizards, sasquatches, n' shit cause they're the good guys."Remember, the OT is shit without this being "EXPLICITELY STATED".
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I'll re-phrase that: "Avatar is the all time top grosser and that's the end of it. Your type simply can't stand that fact"What a fucking dinosaur site; straight from the stone age.
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And you understand he is bad. that all makes perfect sense to you.Sidious invades a peaceful planet, slaughtering people left and right and tries to kidnap the Queen....and you are confused whether or not he is good or bad?Explain this thought process to me.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:39:19 PM CST
Jackslater 4, Con Air was not a Michael Bay film
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
It was directed by Simon West, though since it copies Bay's style exactly you'd be forgiven for making the error. And it is also crapola.
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Dude, you lost. You're making no sense. The conflict in the OT is practically SCREAMED at you from the first frame. Again, Palpatine isn't even in the first movie! He's not the main antagonist, Vader is, and EVERYBODY know this. Except you for some bizarre reason.
And, um, Fett, being the main antagonist doesn't mean he has to give all the orders. I mean, are you serious? Do you think the main antagonist is ANH is Tarkin? Really? Man oh man. And you're working on a film of some sort? Good luck with that, man, cause if you're confused by the most simple and overtly stated bad guy in the history of films (Darth Vader), you're kinda lost in the sauce and should back slowly away from the camera. I think you should look for employment in LFLs public relations department. -
That would be you. YOU are the one saying that unless something is "EXPLICITELY STATED", then it doesn't exist in the film.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:41:48 PM CST
It's because you don't understand what "antagonist" means.
by revenge_of_fett
I know because I graduated with a degree in Journalism. You don't because you're an 8 year old child, or a moron, one of the two.Tell me, oh wise one, who the antagonist in the movie 2012 is. It's going to be tough because there are no lightsabers in it.
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Star Wars is the root of all modern blockbusters. However, Lucas and Spielberg HAVE been losing their touch and their audience. The young turks (some not so young) have over-taken them. Hopefully Spielberg can make a comeback; not too sure about Lucas.
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So ... the Democrats are the racist party and the Republicans are the kumbaya party. OK, gotcha.
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Jan 28, 2010 2:45:24 PM CST
Saying Darth Vader is the main antagonist in ANH is like....
by revenge_of_fett
Saying "red lightsaber" is the main antagonist in ANH. It's like saying "Death Star" is the main antagonist in ANH, or "Star Destroyer". It just underscores what a shit-eating child you are.
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One of the best car chase sequences ever filmed. Unlike the TF movies - which I despise - BAD BOYS II has a magnificent freeway chase which at one point has a boat being totalled, and insane Haitians (with big-ass dreads) throwing cars off a car transporter at Smith and Lawrence. You can follow the actio, the geography - while fast-moving - is at least watchable, and when it's over, Joe Pantoliano chews them both out over it. Amazing sequence.
I'll give you the fact that the TRANSFORMERS movies look like two giant washing machines beating each other up in extreme close-up whilst being edited like DOMINO was - but BAD BOYS and especially BAD BOYS II had some amazingly action, beautifully filmed. Bay is way more fetishised for action than he EVER was for Fox, Tea Leoni, Gabrielle Union or any other woman in his movies. Bay gets hard for hardware!! -
Jan 28, 2010 2:46:33 PM CST
What a ridiculous argument; I'll settle it.
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Vader is/was the main antagonist in the OT, just as Luke was the main protagonist. However, if the saga is extended to 6 parts then the script is flipped - Palpatine is clearly the over-arching baddy, and the story, as a whole, is primarily about Anakin (who is both pro- and antagonist). One of the best things about the prequels is that they completely change the perspective of the OT.
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So, the rag tag group of freaky teenage rebels (Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie), their appliances (R2 and C3PO) and their wizard friend (Obi Wan) running around the evil space castle (Death Star) and the black knight (Darth Vader) that resides within it and wants to kill them, control them, and/or blow up their planets wasn't an explicitly stated conflict??? REALLY??? Wow. Just wow. Keep those Jar Jar Pajamas pulled down over thine own eyes, man, if that's what you need to do to extol the unique "subtle brilliance" of TPM. Nice day have you. Keep buying LFL's products you must!
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The Bad Boys 2 car chase one of the best ever filmed? I thought I'd heard it all. I wasn't a fan of either, but even Terminator 3 and The Matrix Reloaded, both of which came out the same summer, had better chases.Bullit. The French Connection. Hell - Ronin. Now hang your head in shame!
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Is there a point in ANH where someone says "We need to defeat DARTH VADER to restore peace to the galaxy"? No? Oh surely the rebels sole focus must reside on DARTH VADER. After all, it is him and ONLY HIM that is the source of conflict in that film....right? When the X-Wings were being loaded, was there talk of going into battle agasinst DARTH VADER? When the Millenium Falcon was being pulled into the Death Star, was Han worried about getting captured by DARTH VADER? When Kenobi and Luke were hiring Han at the Cantina, were they worried about DARTH VADER entanglements? No? When Leia was brought before Tarkin, was it Vader calling the shots or did she refer to him be let off his LEASH? LEASH? But DARTH VADER is the main antagonist of ANH, how could he HAVE A FUCKING LEASH!?!?It's like trying to teach physics to a monkey.
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Though Tarkin is presented as the guy who pulls all the strings, Vader is the person whose ACTIONS drive the narrative. I see where you're coming from, but it's like saying Hitler is the antagonist of RAIDERS because he hired Belloq to stop Indy - when it's obviously Belloq who is actually CHASING Indy, and thus driving the narrative which focusses on Indy and Belloq above all other characters. You could argue that Tarkin orders Vader to get the plans back, but Vader is the villain the movie favours and follows round to his conclusion (adrift in his crippled TIE fighter) as much as Luke being the protagonist above all the other main characters.
Sorry - it's Vader who is the Antagonist. -
Seriously, in the US we seem to think of them as Tinker Bell or somet sort of more appealing creature like that, but in the real Celtic and Old British folkloric traditions, fairies are diabolical little fuckers.I never truly understood the different perceptions of fairie between the US and the British/Irish until one episode of Ghost Hunters. The TAPS team went to Europe, and were in Ireland with an Irish ghost hunting colleague of theirs, and when the stuff they were investigating got theorized to possibly be fairie spirits, this Irish ghost hunter freak out quite a bit, while the American ghost hunters were not phased at all.Glad to see Lucas doing something else than Star Wars for a change. Don't get me wrong, I like Star Wars, but it is good that he works on something else for a while I think. And where is Red Tails? That's the Lucas project I'm really interested in.
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Seriously, in the US we seem to think of them as Tinker Bell or somet sort of more appealing creature like that, but in the real Celtic and Old British folkloric traditions, fairies are diabolical little fuckers.I never truly understood the different perceptions of fairie between the US and the British/Irish until one episode of Ghost Hunters. The TAPS team went to Europe, and were in Ireland with an Irish ghost hunting colleague of theirs, and when the stuff they were investigating got theorized to possibly be fairie spirits, this Irish ghost hunter freak out quite a bit, while the American ghost hunters were not phased at all.Glad to see Lucas doing something else than Star Wars for a change. Don't get me wrong, I like Star Wars, but it is good that he works on something else for a while I think. And where is Red Tails? That's the Lucas project I'm really interested in.
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By your rationale, the Force is the main Protagonist and the Dark Side of the Force is the Antagonist, because the Force brought all things into being and the Dark Side is what corrupted Palpatine and led him to create the Empire.
Protagonists and Antagonists are about who is the FOCUS of the movie - the main character and their main opposing character - NOT the head of the bad guys in the overall mythology of the movie. How would that make sense anyway?? -
this is a normal face *o*
Thus us Mel's Massive Four Fucking Ton Face *0*
The science speaks for itself -
Indiana Jones does not expand beyond the scope of the Ark. the entire plot revolves around the pursuit of the Ark. Hitler is nothing more than a motivation for it's retrieval.I'm not suggesting that Tarkin is the main antagonist of ANH. He is ALSO an agent of the main antagonist. the main antagonist of ANH is "The Empiror", who does not appear but is mentioned in ANH. It is HIS WILL, enacted through Tarkin and Vader, which is the main antagonist in ANH. THE EMPEROR is the oppressive force throughout ANH. THE EMPEROR "disolves the Senate". THE EMPEROR has taken control of the Galaxy and it is THE EMPEROR against whom the rebellion is mobilized.
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While I agree on FRENCH CONNECTION, RONIN, and even BULLITT, the fact that editing suddenly got faster from the 80s onwards does NOT preclude modern movies from having awesome car chases.
Yes, I think BAD BOYS II is one of the best car chases ever filmed. Ditto for MATRIX RELOADED, and you're right about T3 (what joyless fucker wouldn't enjoy seeing a CRANE get flipped??) too. But just because a movie isn't considered a classic, that doesn't preclude a sequence from said movie from being a classic sequence.
Isn't that the argument that the Prequel Trilogy apologists use? "Well, we know the movies as a whole are shit, but there's a rilly rilly KEWL sequence where Anakin kills all the Jedi..."
Sorry, no dice. I want movies that are MOSTLY awesome, or COMPLETELY awesome, not fucking sporadically okay in parts. -
While the Emperor may be mentioned, he is not the main antagonist (by definition) of ANH.
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It is UTILIZED to serve whomever weilds it.Vader is ONLY EVER referred to as an attack dog character. He's not even boss of his own ship. He's clearly a henchman. Yes he has the most screen time, but dramatic narrative is not based on screen time.
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Jan 28, 2010 3:05:42 PM CST
Mel's Massive Four Fuckin Ton Face causes global warming
by nippleeffect
and continental shift
It has 3 area codes and 2 time zones -
Besides that bulbous nose taking up most of the screen, how was Halloween 2?
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Yeah, but the Emperor is only evil through his pursuit of power through the Dark Side - without which he would not have been able to achieve his aims. And the birth of Anakin - as you argue, the Protagonist of MENACE but (as I argue) also the Antagoinst of the OT - is the Force's attempt to bring Balance to itself, thus making the entire saga the story of how the Force is divided, used for evil, overtakes the entire galaxy, and is in the end brought back into balance by Luke's saving his father at the end of JEDI - making the Force the Protagonist and the Dark Side of the Force the Antagonist of the entire saga! THE DARK SIDE has taken possession of the Emperor, and it is the DARK SIDE that is eventually vanquished by the redemption of Vader back to being Anakin just before he dies! SPUD FOR THE WIN, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!
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That's the acid test for Avatar. Will there be the demand for five more films? We know the sequel will be well received, but after that? Will the public have an appetite for four more films in the Avatar universe. ALL six SW films were financial successes. If Avatar can do the same, I'll bow to it. But I don't think it will.
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excluding ego
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I really liked the first one for what was, I'll have to check out the H2 DC.
And as for Avatar, I enjoyed it but I think it'll go the way of the Alien series. -
The conversation between Yoda and Luke in EMPIRE:
"Is the Dark Side stronger?"
"No. Easier... More seductive."
They're talking about it as two separate parts of the Force, not one malleable Force.
And if you take all 6 movies as one big saga (as someone earlier told me I should) then Vader - and iniialy Anakin - is DEFINITELY the Protagonist in the prequel trilogy and the Antagonist in the original trilogy. The entire balance of the Force - the energy field that suffuses EVERYTHING IN EXISTENCE - is in jeopardy while Vader remains evil. Even destroying the Emperor - which Vader does! - is not as important as bringing balance to the Force. The Emperor is to Vader what Lee Remick was to Damien in THE OMEN - the means by which the Protagonist is brought into the narrative (or, in the SW movies, the means by which the Protagonist is turned into the Antagonist). -
You're talking like the force is a character instead of a tool. Again, it's like saying the antagonist of ANH is "red lightsaber". Lucas isn't trying to convey how "good or bad" the force is anymore than he's trying to convey how good or bad a lightsaber is. It's all about PEOPLE and the choices they make.
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Lucas has changed the whole saga so many times that it's hard to keep straight what he thinks the entire thing is about. I think that's why people have different opinion on the nature of the Force and Anakins role in the whole thing.
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It all flows together perfectly. I think your PERCEPTIONS about what he's saying are in conflict from one film to the next.
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Because Cameron isn't going to run the thing into the ground like Lucas has done, not because there isn't 'public demand'. He's going to make a trilogy - that's quite enough. Three great films, as opposed to 2 greats, 2 merely good, and 2 average (and my personal assessments of the prequels are more forgiving than most). Lucas has exhauted the general public's appetite for SW - and even most fanboys. Endless novels, comics, games, cartoon series, live-action TV, holiday specials, ewok movie spin-offs, taty merchandise, re-releases, re-issues. Even I'm fucking sick of SW by now. Let it rest.
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He REFLECTED a darkside power. That's what that glowing energy ball in his hand was. It didn't EMENATE from him, it was collected and thrown back by him.
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In fact he tries to dissuade him from entering.
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...please quote for me some classic lines from TPM, AOTC or ROTS that you quote with your ST buddies...I thought not.
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Do you think he had the whole thing planned out from the get go as he says? Even an outline? In fact, I don't think he ever had Vader planned to be Luke's father. He continues to go back and change things (The SE's, the DVD's) to have things flow more with his new trilogy. Before the PT, Star Wars was about something entirely different. The new films made it more focused on Anakin. Whether or not he had always planned for it to be that way is up to interpretation really; everyone's going to have their opinions about it.
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That's it. He's made up a lot as he went along. Mind you, read the prologue for the New Hope novel by Alan Dean Foster; it's a pretty accurate summation of the prequel events.
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Jan 28, 2010 3:27:35 PM CST
Lucas, Bay, Spielberg, Jackson all feel they need to top Cameron
by snakecharmer
I don't think they can. They follow after he's laid the ground work. Tin Tin is using a lot of the technology that was created for Avatar.
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Stop hating on Clone Wars and admit that Revenge of the Sith is 2nd only to Empire. You old bastards clinging on to your dated trilogy! Viva La Clone Wars!
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Long time fan. First time poster. Brian Froud is the concept artist for The Dark Crystal. Henson liked Froud's artwork from looking at his Faerie books. Now Lucas wants to make a movie about it? could be good.
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Most notably Han shooting Greedo and Hayden's face on Anakin's ghost. Both are bullshit and I'm not going to defend them. he has "explained" these changes but I think he is wrong.And I KNOW he had the outline down because I've read some of it. The main character has the last name "Starkiller", but it was so long ago I can't remember much. It was essentially a hodgepodge of some elements of TPM and ANH. Remember that as soon as Star Wars hit big he started referring to it as Episode IV, and it's re-release in 1978 had the crawl changed to reflect that.I know there is an urban legend that Luke and Leia were not supposed to be twins. That could be true I suppose. I've never heard Lucas specifically refute that.
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I think have may have read that, it talked about the Senate and how the Emperor was some Nixon-type of character right?
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We should probably just ask JettL, I think he'd be able to get to the bottom of it.
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Both hilarious and terrifying.
http://www.amazon.com/Secret-History-Star-Wars/dp/0978465237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264714580&sr=8-1 -
Hate leads to suffering". that's line my friends and I have shot back and forth. Also "Yousa bomBAAAAD!" and "Don't getta me wrongo" and "You think you're some kind of Jedi?" and "Negotiations WERE short" and "Are you braindead?" and "Hello there" "How uncivilized" and "Good job!", dude there's TONS!
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Lucas is playing catch-up? When he was 32 he made the cultural phenomenon that was Star Wars. What was Peter Jackson doing at 32? Brain Dead and Meet The Feebles. Then Lucas made ANOTHER cultural phenomenon in Indiana Jones. Hate on him all you want, but his creative AND business brain is unrivalled.
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He took out the original Max Rebo Band song, and replaced it with some utter horseshit. And, he...He...God, it pisses me off just writing this. He removed the fucking Ewok Jub Jub song at the end of the movie! I love that song you fucking prick! Gorge Puke-ass!
QUE HARVEY KEITEL(BAD LIEUTENANT)
"You hear me you fuck! Where were you?! Where the fuck were you?!" -
Phantom fucking Menace? You ARE joking, right?! Please, in the name of Serling, tell me you're joking!!!!
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But I don't really want to pay $30 plus shipping for it. Maybe I can find it at the library.
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When was the last time LucASS/Luca$ did anything that WASN'T for kids?
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The new one was way better! The Jabba palace music sucked in both versions but I agree it was much worse in the revision.
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So... WHY does Anakin suddenly become Hayden at the end of Jedi when his ghost appears? Why do some Jedi disappear (eg Ben in ANH) when they're killed, but some don't (Qui-Gon, TPM)? WTF was all that midichlorian bullshit in TP, when ANH specifically states that the Force is an energy field produced by ALL living things? Why is Anakin such a whiny bitch? Why doesn't the "lightning changed Palpatine's face" argument make any fucking sense? Why would Greedo miss if he shot first from two fucking feet away? Why, if stormtroopers are so accurate, can they not hit a cow's arse with a banjo when aiming at our heroes? What happened to the Kai-burr crystal that he keeps in several drafts of the first movie, then refers to in his outlines for a larger story? Why would killing the Emperor suddenly bring balance to the Force in JEDI anyway? When is Lucas going to explain how clones became an army of conscripts in ANH? Did the clones just die? Or are they all killed? Why cast a New Zealander as Jango, and by extension Boba, when a cursory watch of EMPIRE would have revealed to Lucas that Boba is a fucking American, for crying out loud? Twat doesn't even revisit his own mythology to write the next trilogy!! In short, FETT, how the FUCK DOES IT ALL FLOW TOGETHER??
Be a fan of the PT, by all means. But don't even pretend that this saga all makes sense - because this saga makes less sense than Russell T Davies' run on DOCTOR WHO! The STAR WARS saga is NOT consistent - and I could give you examples of why it isn't all damn night... -
Now I KNOW you're a pre-teen, FETT! You fucking heretic!!
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do anything good recently. And by recently I mean the last 10-15 years.
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"Don't do that again" "Are you an angel?" "Yippeee!" "Fear is my ally." "Be mindful" "It's all Obi-Wan's fault!" "I try master" "I'm going to get a drink" "I love the water" "I hate sand. It gets everywhere." "I will not give in to this." "Oh Annie. You'll always be that little boy on Tattooine." "You're SWEATING!" "I can sense everything going on in that room. I promise."
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Anakin: You were my father Obi-Wan!
Obi-Wan: You were my brother Anakin!
Anakin: You...wait, what?
Obi-Wan: No...wait, what? You're the idiot mother...no, I'm the sister and Padme's the cousin, and Palpatine's the creepy uncle...
Anakin: (sudden hysterical outburst as his useless leg stumps catch on fire, despite being no further away from the lava than they were the last 45 minutes) I HATE YOU! (sputtering) OBI-WAN! AND I HAVE SAND IN MY MOUTH NOW! I HAAAATTE SAAAAANNDD!!!!!!!
That was my favorite part. Oh yeah, and:
Anakin: You're either with us or against us!
Obi-Wan: Only Sith deal in absolutes. (3 minute pause while Ewan stands there with a dumbfounded look on his face) Oh, fuck you, George. -
his sweat covered body glistened as he emerged from the dank tunnel like hallway and into his party chamber. Disco lights, stage fog, and open fire torches lit Spielbergs secret room buried deep under the foundation of his Hollywood Hills home. Behind him Megan and Bay followed; Bay already writhing to the concert level sound of the Cantina music from Star Wars that roared from the sound system. "Georgie...buddy...looky who Mikey brought to play!" Steven screamed as he grabbed a diamond and steel studded leather Yamulke from a steel table and placed it on his head and walk-danced his way towards the far wall...his coke and sin fuel faced twisted with a letcherous smile. Megan could barely stand the sight of him...she knew this man...the man who had trained and tamed Bay."Steven...not now...I'm thinking about Fairies" on the far side of the cavernous George Lucas reclined on a large leather papa-san chair...his gray hair matted with sweat...in front of him...strapped naked to the wall was a man in his 50s, clearly drugged, completely unaware of his surroundings, his own graying hair dripping with duress, electrodes were affixed to his body and genetalia..."Jimmy...." mumbled George Lucas..."Jimmy...wake up...tell uncle George who is King" Bay poored a large glass of water from a tap...walked over and threw it on the distressed creature, who began to stir. A soft voice croaked out..., "I....I...I'm King of the Wooo...arghh!!!!!" George had pressed the button...sending untold volts through the poor wretches body; "Wrong fucking answer...WRONG...WRONG WRONG..."
George, keeping the switch thrown looked over at Megan; she began to cough...she felt herself stomach churn, fear rising at a fever pitch...his cold eyes looked at her like a Lion watching his next meal. The man on the wall had passed out by now and George had seemed to loose interest..."Cut him down and dump him on Hollywood Blvd", George said to Bay.."...and throw this next to him..." he said as he tossed Bay a bag full of a peanut butter colored substance. After Bay had removed the tortured soul...George reached down with his short pudgy arms and brought up a pair of Disney Store bought "Tinkerbell" wings and a wand with a big star and some tassels on it...the kind made for a child of 7 or 8. "Put these on darling Megan...", cooed George, "...and give Uncle George some inspiration, just like you gave Michael when you washed his car". Tears lept from Megans eyes as she held the small wings and wand in her shaking hands...."See Steven...Fairies...a great Idea, the next Big Thing... even young Megan here is overcome with the thought of it". "Yeah...", replied Spielberg, "...Almost as good as the Idea for Indy 5; but Mikeys weeping whore is no replacement for wailing fanboys!...we need to concentrate on 'Indy' George...I need to fuck them over bad!" George looked at his friend and partner in crime..."Patience Steven....Patience...first...Fairies" he said...as he turned his gaze back towards Ms. Fox. and brushed popcorn kernels from his sweaty gray tufted chest, "Yesssss.....Fairies...... " -
According to Lucas, vader ceased being Anakin when he turned to the dark side and became Vader. That's why young Anakin shows up as a ghost now. As I said, I think that's BS, but I understand his point.As explained in the deleted scenes of ROTS, no Jedi had ever become an apparition until Qui-Gon discovered how. This is because he was SO connected with "the living force". It was sort of his specialty. That's why he was always acquiring "pathetic lifeforms" and going out of his way to help people not directly associated with his mission. Yoda alerts Obi-Wan to Qui-Gons reappearance and Qui-Gon then teaches this "trick" to Obi-Wan.Pay attention to what Qui-Gon actually says about midiclorians. Does he say they are the force? No. He says "Without their influence would have NO KNOWLEDGE of the force".Why is Anakin such a whiny bitch? Was his kid any different?Let's run lightening past your face for several minutes and see if it does anything to it.I've said the Greedo thing is BS. Lucas says he didn't intend for Han to be perceived as a cold-blooded killer. You have to remember films were a bit more brutal in the 70s. Jaws was fucking PG fer chrissakes.Stormtrooper accuracy is just a movie conceit you're going to have to used to. Otherwise anytime anyone with shooting skill shoots and DOESN'T kill someone you're going to have to get up and leave the theater. same thing with martial arts movie that contend people can get kicked full-force in the head dozens of times without their fighting ability the slightest bit impeded.The Kyber crystal never made the screen. You may just as well be screaming "WTF happened to Starkiller!?"I would contend that bringing "balance" to the force was wiping out all the Jedi. As they say in AOTC the prophecy may have been "misinterpreted".ANH never contends Stormtroopers are "an army of conscripts". The fan film TROOPS does.Boba Fett was an American? Ever hear the phrase "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away"? Are you talking about the actor who portrayed him? That was a Brit.
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The new music at the end of ROTJ is more appropriate. Yub Yub is too throwaway for the end of an epic saga and the spanning of galaxy wide celebrations. I love the OT as much as the next man, but stop asserting that every single creative decision is better than anything Lucas shat out post '96. The OT has many weak points, gaffes and goofs.Lapti Nek, however - that's the shit. Better than 'Jedi Rocks' by half.
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How anyone can defend the "yub-nub Teddy Bears picnic" that closes out the greatest movie franchise of all-time is beyond me. Sure there's some nostalgic value there but it's corny as all hell. If there was anything GL needed to fix in the OT that was it. I'll take the new Johnny Williams composition and the galactic montage anyday.
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The song never made sense to me. First of all, nobody's singing it so it's pretty disconnected from what's on the screen. Also it's in the Ewok's language so it's obviously supposed to be them, but the voices are obviously a human chorus so it was just weird. Plus it's just a dumb-assed fucking song.
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And this is coming from someone who likes Ewoks!
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I don't mind GL replacing that God awful Sy Snootles puppet but they should have just used the same song. Lapti Nek had a weird sleazy quality that fit in with Jabba's palace a lot better than new song. Either way it's a bunch of funny aliens singing so is there really a right answer here?
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Jan 28, 2010 4:33:38 PM CST
I reckon there was something quite dark going in that ending
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
See the Ewoks banging away on the stromtrooper helmets and using them as makeshift drums and musical instruments? Where did the troopers themselves go? I'll tell you where - those fuzzy little bastards cooked 'em and ate 'em! Probably covertly served the flesh to the rebels during the celebrations as well; they didn't know they were engaging in cannibalism! Fucking ewoks!
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Arguing about fucking Star Wars!If I hadn't earned it long ago, I would be issued a Geek Card right now!
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u know george cant leave a screenplay untouched.
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tho they were never the most practical of transport systems...
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Harry could just write the words Star Wars at the top and it gets everyone's panties in a bunch. I am watching season one Clone Wars right now and I agree with others here that its just plain good.
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SW has been dead for a while now. The prequels were awful missed oppurtunities, and the franchise ought to be left alone before it gets even worse - if that's even possible.
We have Avatar now, a film far superior in every way to at least 4 of the 6 live-action SW films. Very much like A New Hope, it's a simple film about good vs. evil and following a down and out hero on his journey. Just like Luke discovered the wonder of becoming a Jedi, we follow Jake as he discovers the amazing life of being a Na'vi. Both could be criticized for simple plotting, derivative narrative, spotty dialogue, but that would be missing the entire point. The point is that the films are escapism at their finest, wonderful adventure films that are the reason most of us fell in love with cinema to begin with. Both have present a huge sense of wonder which is sadly missing from cinema in this day and age. Avatar has changed all that, and like SW has resonated with audiences around the world, setting-up what surely will be one of cinemas most memorable trilogies. No surprise though, this is James Cameron were talking about. I'm still laughing at all you douches (*cough*Trannyformers*cough*) who were so convinced it would be cinemas biggest disaster. Next time look outside your sad little bubble, save yourself embarrassment. -
Are unwatchable garbage period. Its clear that Lucas had much more talented people steering the original trilogy. You can tell this by what he did when he had his way with the OT special editions. Lucas was, is, and always will be a hack who exploits talented people to make money and perpetuate his own ego. When his head is finally engulfed by his neck fat his punishment should be having to spend eternity listening to his Jar Jar dialogue on perpetual loop.
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I understand all the answers you gave me - I KNEW them all from the movies themselves - I was hoping you could give me a reason why they weren't bullshit. But you didn't. so they still are. Bullshit, I mean.
The Kai-burr crystal was the main reason the Jedi could sense the Force in many early drafts (I mean more than 4 or 5 drafts at least) and was a major MacGuffin in the saga in its very early stages. I mention it because the fact that Lucas clung onto this concept for ages before finally discarding it just goes to show he's lying - he NEVER had a complete and detailed saga in his head, ready to go. I understand writing goes through many changes from first to final draft - God knows my writing does - but this "Lucas knows and knew what he was doing" is just bollocks. The Fett nationality, for example - doesn't matter that Jeremy Bulloch is British, his accent in the OT is definitely American. So Lucas should have cast an AMERICAN for his clone-father and for young Boba, not be so fucking disinterested in getting the details right that he retconned the fucking accent in EMPIRE to cover for the fact that he didn't even check EMPIRE and JEDI to see what his Boba Fett character was like (details, George! Details!!) because HE COULDN'T BE ARSED TO. If I got paid to write and create all fucking day, and I'm adding to an established series of movies, you better be sure I'm gonna check, recheck and check again the source material that I'm using and adding to! That's just fucking lazy!!
That said, we've all spent most of today arguing about STAR WARS. As FETT says, geek cred is beyond reproach tonight!
Hats off to you guys. It's been a fun argument. I'll be signing off soon, so have a good evening, my transatlantic nemeses - it's midnight in the UK and I got a lot to do tomorrow! Have fun!! -
In one of Dark Horse's STAR WARS TALES omnibuses, they have a tale of two Imperial stormtroopers stuck on Endor after the Death Star goes kaboom - and they are TERRIFIED! Seems the stories about Ewoks eating their prey were true - and there aren't many other troopers left... It's very, very funny, and they're ALL well worth getting. "Fett Club" is fucking fantastic!!
*Thinking about it, in JEDI they WERE getting ready to roast Han over a spit. Greedy little bastards... -
Is pretty bad but compared to the Prequels its Citizen Kane.
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He needs to stay out of all this for a long time and get his sense back
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Is anyone excited for this or want it? Does anyone know any information on it?
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Lucas can do lord of the rings in space....oh yeah...he did that already!
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...must work!
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Clone Wars is a good show, with good Star Wars stories, because fucknut isn't writing any of the scripts. That's why I have hope for this new live action series. As long as it's not "Hi, I'm Dan Solo and this is my young son, Han."
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Star Wars. It's early days for Avatar, but I can't see it seeping in every aspect of popular culture like SW, Indy Jones, Harry Potter and LOTR. It's box office was primarily fuelled by people wanting to see "something new" on a visual level. It's visuals were it's main - some would say only - selling point. I have three nephews under 10, they saw Avatar last month and they've pretty much forgotten about it. When I saw SW for the first time as a kid, I couldn't get it out of my head for six months. And how many kids do you see playing with Na'Vi action figures? Now compare that to how many kids played with SW toys. I just can't see Avatar making anywhere near as much impact on pop culture as SW.
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Avatar is a huge, monumental success. It is so, because it has upgraded CGI and 3D to new levels. That said, we've seen stuff like Avatar before. When Star Wars came out, there was nothing like it. Ever. Even though it's spirit was inspired many timeless fables of the past, it's aesthetic was so new. So interesting and bizarre, that it really sets it apart from anything that came before it, or anything that's come after it.
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You might all over Star Wars because you saw it when you were young. The 10-19 year olds who see Avatar might have the same reaction you had to Star Wars when it came out.
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Please take a cue from your pal F. F. Coppolla. NO MORE MOVIES. NO MORE TV. Discover the joys of growing California grapes. I promise I'll buy a whole crate of Skywalker White Wine.
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If Lucas made wine, he'd probably sweeten it with corn syrup and throw in chocolate fucking chips.
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The present
Now, 66 years after sucking down the super serum, the legend known as Captain America enters the squared hexagon, ready to once again do battle with the forces of e-veal!
After entering the square hexagon, Cap lifts his left leg and cuts one so hard that the entire left bank of seats in the arena – some 4700 unsuspecting folks are knocked into a stench induced coma and in the process, have their DNA altered forever. Cap’s farts, his true super power, have been known to make the Hulk cry for his mommy. The carnage is cleared away, and the near 5000 folks waiting outside in the cancellation line who were smart enough to have watched Cap’s last fight and knew what was coming, take their seats. His pre-fight ritual complete, Cap wastes no time reconnoitering the square hexagon. Immediately he spots the gas mask wearing Batman crouched, in the upper right hand corner of the cage, his full weight balanced on just his left little toe, on the upper most link. The Batman thinks to himself ‘The Flag wearing Farter does not know I am here. Advantage, me!’ *ssssssss* ‘ I can see you up there, you, know. These klieg lights are very bright’, Cap says. ‘ He is just guessing, advantage still, me!’ the Batman coos. ‘I can also hear you numbnutz, you are talking out loud!’ Cap replies. ‘ Damn that super soldier hearing of his, I’ll have to switch tactics, can’t let him know I’m rattled!’ ‘Too late, and people in the third row can hear you too!’ ‘ Filthy lies! I have to regain the advantage’ the Batman furiously thinks – out loud.. He immediately drops to the floor, and launches into a: Flying Monkey castrates the hyena with a coconut, maneuver. This catches Cap off-guard and puts him on the defensive. Batman presses his advantage with a: Purple assed Baboon grabs the crotch of the old Lion just for shits and giggles. Cap is furious at the tactic, backpedaling into the fence. The arena erupts, sensing an upset in the making. Batman, feeding off of the excitement, executes a perfect: Pregnant Hippo breaks her water on an unsuspecting carp, this puts Cap on his knees, with the Batman moving in for the kill with a: Horny Spider monkey whacking off on tourists, choke hold. The people in the arena are on their feet screaming, within the space of a few heartbeats, the unthinkable has happened. The Batman has completely neutralized his heavily favored opponent, and is on the verge a stunning upset, erasing the bitter memory of the non-detachable cape, near strangulation fiasco at the hands of the Kingpin. Chants of ‘Bat-Man! Bat-Man! Bat-Man!’ rock the arena. Cap is turning blue under the unrelenting pressure from the cable thick arms of the Batman and his spider monkey whacking off, choke hold. Batman, sensing his opponent’s imminent demise, readies the coup de grace: Spider monkey jizzes in the tourists ear and smokes a joint afterwards, when suddenly Cap remembers he has a weapon in his hand – his shield, and smacks the shit out of Batman. The hold loosens just enough, for 66 years of battle trained reflexes to kick in, as the sentinel of Liberty, breaks free. Cap, staggers to his feet, coughing and wheezing, his vocal chords crushed, his eyes bloodshot and near blinded, and bleeding from their sockets. His cognitive functions severely impaired by lack of oxygen. Batman, surveys the damage he has inflicted, and performs a self assessment ‘left side of skull caved in. Left orbital bone fractured beyond repair. Left bipedal motor function degraded. Short term memory possibly impacted. Short term memory possibly impacted. Short term memory possibly impacted. Floating bone chips moving dangerously close to higher level cognitive functions. I have a hard-on! Yes! I have him right where I want him! Come on big boy time to dance with the flying rat!’ *ssssssss*
The two men warily circle one another. A half blind, mentally impaired, and totally pissed off Captain America. And half-crippled and mentally impaired, and sexually excited Batman. Only one can survive.
Cap decides he must end this now, he feigns to the left and tosses his shield to the right, unfortunately his blindness has impaired his aim, he has double vision, and the figure he thought was Batman, is just a shadow! Batman, sensing his opening attempts to press the advantage, he draws upon his two months of torturous Ballet training, and attempts to execute a grand jeté. But his half crippled left side fails him, and he comes crashing down, unbalanced into Captain America, who immediately grabs Batman’s cape – but, that is all he is left holding, because it immediately detaches, just as it was designed, but before Batman can smirk and scramble away, Cap manages to spin around and grab the oversized belt of the Batman – which does not detach, then he wrestles him to the floor, and applies the unbreakable snake lock with his super serum super sized thighs – which turns Batman even as he is passing out. But before the Batman goes comatose, he whispers just loud enough for only Cap to hear ‘how about we call it a draw?’ ‘Never’ Cap replies, and increases the pressure. ‘Ok, listen if my heart stops, then an envelope will be delivered to the Avengers mansion and to Fox news –it has pictures of you and how you really got the super soldier serum!’ ‘No!’ Cap screams. ‘Yes,’ Batman snickers. ‘I have pics of you sucking on a horse’s schlong to get the super soldier serum into you!’ Cap, loosens the pressure slightly, and says. ‘Those pictures were destroyed, after I kille, er, after the general and the scientists were assassinated. How could you have them?’ Batman smirks, ‘they do not call me the world’s greatest detective for nothing! So, how about that draw now?’. ‘Cap, knowing defeat is near, asks weakly ‘ how, and how do I know you will not send them anyway? I should just kill you now and take my chances!’ Batman, thinking furiously to save his cowled neck replies, ‘look in the large pouch on my belt, oooo, that’s wasn’t my belt, but it felt good, ok yes that pouch, ok look at the picture. See ?’ It was a picture of Batman going down on commissioner Gordon, while Gordon was being cornholed by the Joker’ That explains why the Joker always seems to escape punishment, thought Cap.‘You keep that, as a guarantee, and we can both do a donkey kick to the balls to knock each other out, and it will be a draw’! The Batman said. Cap considers it, puts the pic into his pocket, and says,’ ok, on the count of three, kick, and neither one of us opens his eyes until we get into our dressing rooms!’ ‘Agreed!’ Batman all but screams in delight. Cap counts ‘1-2-3’ and both men kicked for all they were worth at the groins of the other man. They both passed out. The arena erupted again in a near orgasmic scream of cheers. The men were carried out of the arena, as their handlers were already negotiating for Bats vs Cap II.
Epilogue
As the men were carried out Batman opened his eyes, thanks to his Bat-Cup, the force of Caps Donkey kick was spread throughout his body -'yet another victory for the Dark Knight' he hisses. *sssssss* -
Captain America opens his eyes, 'that muttering fool is talking to himself again' he thinks. The Benefit of sucking horse dick serum is now Cap has the size and stamina of an elite Thoroughbred Horse. Batmans donkey hardly fazed him. Cap is already thinking about the horse fuck he is gonna lay into The Scarlet Witch. Life is good!
The End – for now
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AVATAR is like lots of other movies, but moreso. It's super-derivative (hence DANCES WITH SMURFS etc.), and even rips off Cameron's own climax from ALIENS. Its chief contribution to pop culture seems to be that everything's in 3D now. STAR WARS was revolutionary. It combined mythology with science fiction and presented it in an amazingly fast-paced way, with top-notch production values for its time. It instantly found its way into everything from toys to political cartoons to Johnny Carson monologues -- can you imagine Jay Leno making a joke about Col. Quaritch? STAR WARS did so much so differently that it swept the world. Sure, lots of people have seen AVATAR. But aside from popularizing 3D, it hasn't changed anything.
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Just stop saying that. It never quite applies. Nothing has made a splash like Star Wars did almost 33 years ago. At least not on as many levels.
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It took directly from Japanese films and existing Hero mythology that's been used a million times. Lucas threw in enough new things into the mix to give a new face just like Cameron did in Avatar.
Btw, Dances with Wolves can be called a derivative of older western films and i'm sure you can find older books that had similar stories. -
Avatar had good action.
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Make me an R rated Star Wars. Limbs being lopped off by seriously dark scary jedi's. Get Chris Nolan to do it! He would take the Dark Knight sensibilities and transfer them to Star Wars perfectly. Someone please fix the damage with the best Star Wars movie of all time!!!!
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And I can't stand Harry Potter. But in terms of mainstream popularity and influence, HP crushes Avatar. And Star Wars crushes HP. And LOTR is somewhere between SW and HP. Just to give you some idea of the scheme of things.
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Oh! Okay so you're saying that as soon as Qui-Gon "adopted" Anakin, it was tmie for the little fucker to follow Oskar Schindler there wherever he went, even if it meant going to a war zone planet. So he took him there, but he asked him to stay on the ship so he "would be safe". First, if he wanted Anakin to be safe, he would have left hmi with the fucking Jedi! Or at least with someone else, if he was so afraid of the Jedi murdering the little brat. But I guess he just wanted Anakin to be around and learn how fucked up a Jedi's life is, and had him stay at a place that was NOT safe, completely unarmed and unguarded - R2 doesn't count, he didn't know how to fly or to throw flaming oil yet, GL only retconned that later. And in fact Anakin didn't die due to a FUCKING MIRACLE, had him pressed the wrong button, BOOM he would be toast. So just by this smal fact you can see how fucking inconsistent and stupid TPM is. I could go on and on.
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There are only seven:
1. Overcoming the Monster
2. Rags to Riches
3. Quest
4. Voyage and Return
5. Comedy
6. Tragedy
7. Rebirth -
evil, violent Irish fairies, and not a musical...man, this has to be one of the worst ideas of all time
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No wonders Lucas hates you guys. haha. He hates you so much that he punks you by re-releasing the same movies over and over again. And like bitches you give him your cash again every time. Suckas!
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This takes place immediately following the epic fight between Batman and Kingpin.
Prologue
The audience tittered as the large man in the skintight black leather outfit and matching cowl, with a pink tutu, attempted an Arabesque but wound up doing a truly hideous Battement Tendu Derriere! Oh, the humiliation. Still, undaunted by his stunning lack of success, the cowled man, then tries a series of Batterie, which results in one member of the audience loudly whispering ‘he looks like a three-legged donkey trying to fornicate with a frigid goat’. This set the normally reserved audience off on a loud set of guffaws usually associated with the patrons of the lesser arts. Oh the scandal!
But alas, our masked hero was not quite finished, the fortitude and steely resolve that saw him through battles to death – or fingernails being broken –which ever came first, with other spandex and tight leather clad, prowlers of the evening, would not allow him to accept defeat graciously. After all, he had dedicated his life- for the past two months at least, to the study of ballet after his humiliating loss in the square hexagon to that cheating, fish taco eating, fat freak of nature: The Kingpin. He still shudders and wets his Bat undies at the thought of being throttled to near death by his own (non-detachable) cape, at the hands of that fish and cheese eating freak. Oh, yes, adjustments were made to the cape design, so now it will pop off if a drunk beetle just breathes on it. But, he must master this ballet, he has no place else left to go! So, summoning all of his considerable concentration, he executed a passable pirouette, then launched himself at full speed straight at the petrified ‘male’ danseurs, he leapt high into the air and the danseurs - to their credit or scared shitless stupidity, attempted to catch him. A resounding ‘ooof’ and a lisping, high-pitched ‘oh my God he broke my coccyx’ could be heard as all three crashed ignominiously and loudly to the floor . One of the danseurs, the one still conscious, could faintly be heard saying ‘girl you better lose some weight’, followed by a very weak two snaps and a circle, before he too passed out.
The curtain falls –but before it does a mysterious figure who will never be revealed so just get over it now, hands the Batman an envelope that will change his destiny. The Kingpin has been disqualified from the final round vs Captain America because he had unnatural levels of fish oil in his bloodstream. The Batman is back! *sssssssssssss* -
Remember, this is ANAKIN FUCKING SKYWALKER! The most force-infused being OF ALL TIME! At 9 years old he built a fucking protocol droid and the fastest racer ever! Yeah, he was in REAL DANGER of pushing the wrong button and blowing up!Masters train Padawans, that's how it goes. This is done with EXPERIENCE! In this particular instance Qui-Gon thought bringing Anakin into the city was a little too dangerous so he left him in the sealed cockpit of a warship with a FLIGHT NAVIGATOR DROID! NOBODY jhas EVER had a problem with this before your inane bitching! YOU ARE DUMB!
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.....Seriously.
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Jan 28, 2010 8:59:43 PM CST
JackSlate4 keep giving Lucas your money for the same movies.
by snakecharmer
Over and over again. Lucas can't stand you fanboys. How sad that Star Wars was such a big moment in your life.
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You do care! You really do!
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Jan 28, 2010 9:14:56 PM CST
I would talk to Lucas about something other than Star Wars.
by snakecharmer
You wouldn't stop talking about it. He would like me more. People like you have been talking to Lucas about Star Wars for nearly 34 years now.
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I'm bored with this and you. I'll let you go back to masturbating in your Boba Fett costume. Peace bitches.
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show her kicking ass the way Padme did. Maybe even have her and Bail in the senate during a Palpatine speech? would be kinda cool. Even if they throw Jar Jar in the senate I wouldn't care.
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If he released his cock as a limited edition (run of 10,000) action figure just in time for this year's San Diego Comi-con that thing along with the attachable balls (each sold separately) would sell out under 20 minutes
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the only thing that approximates what happened since then is perhaps the hysteria between the special editions leading up to the release of the prequels. It was so pervasive in its influence (as was Spielberg) that you literally could not escape it. I just don't think there's a way for something to become like that anymore... it's much tougher to get that much attention all in one place with so many things vying for they eyeballs. Maybe Harry Potter comes close, but I don't think it hit adults and the tie-in market anywhere near as insanely as Star Wars did on its original release. Also, as others have stated, Star Wars and then Empire just hit on such a stylistic and aesthetic level as well... Harry Potter is really just following in its very large footsteps.
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REVENGE_FETT, you are amazingly dweebtastic. Bravo sir. You win the prize this TB.
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Then I started getting erections and then episode 1 came out and then a girl touched my erection and then i was all like "the fucks a wookie? fucking losers." and then i read this tb and I was like "thank god i got over star wars and grew the fuck up."
True story. -
When was the last time someone slept with curtains covered in your characters? Fucking ingrate losers.
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I was seven when Star Wars first released, and I fell in love. I enjoyed the next two movies, but then I read some of the books... and the romance died. After that I knew that Georgie would put his signature on anything that made him more money. Several of those books sucked, so badly that I knew before we got to the prequels what a hack GL is. I mean, c'mon George, couldn't you have at least pretended that you cared about your greatest contribution to cinema?
After that I refused to read any franchise-related books (except for the first six Dragonlance novels). I think some geeks were so immersed in the hero worship that they bummed hard when they discovered the truth... thus the geek bitterness and dweeb hate.
I did like Willow, and some of the Raiders stuff. But the truth is that George lost his mentor Joseph Campbell and just can't repeat his earlier successes without his "personal Yoda."
Headed into this new project, I offer two things... boy band cameos would be more appropriate to a fairy musical than a jedi battle... and I hope George doesn't have the hero/anti-hero kill children this time around. I can never forgive him for making us feel for Darth Vader through the eyes of his son, and then portraying him as a whiny, bitchy child-killer later on. But hey, it's okay because he turned on the Emperor in the end, right? -
What I mean is this... have you considered how inappropriate the original ending in Return of the Jedi appears after watching the prequels? The first time around, hey, Ben and Annakin are hanging out watching over the heroes with benevolent smiles. Now consider the emotional impact of that scene with the knowledge that Annakin is a cowardly, snivelling baby-killer. Just doesn't feel right. I guess it's true what they say about the fatal error of believing one's own press.
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Jan 29, 2010 3:19:06 AM CST
PS I won't watch Clone Wars, because it's Georgie's attempt to r
by buck_q_fuddy
TOO LATE, GEORGE.
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first off, we never knew a thing about Vader, through Luke's eyes or anyone. It's your assumptions that led you to be disappointed, not the way he was portrayed in the prequels. Besides if he didn't have character flaws he never would have ended up like Vader in the first place. I don't know why I'm trying to convince you miserable fools anyway. It's you who go through life spiteful over a work of fiction. Enjoy you're shallow little hell.
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I have read all of them, and they number well into the hundreds by now, I love the characters and I love continuing those adventures.
Some of my favourtie Star Wars characters are EU characters. -
Will it be as good as the Star Wars Christmas Special? Or the part where the little girl sings a song for Wilford Brimley in "Ewoks: Battle for Endor?" And who can forget Howard the Duck's many chart-topping ballads, like, um, "Howard the Duck."
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I've already stated in this talkback that I think George screwed that part up.Here's what I think he should have done since he wanted to chage it:He should have reshot the unmasking scene with an aged Hayden Christianson. Otherwise when Luke sees his ghost at the end he must be thinking "Ben! Good to see ya buddy!.....Hey.....WHO THE FUCK IS THAT CREEPY LOOKING GUY?"Also Hayden has a glowery, evil look on his face that is not really appropriate. It would have been cool to have Obi-Wan put his hand on Anakin's shoulder in that shot as well.If he would have made those couple of changes, I think the shot could have worked beautifully. As it stands it's a real blemish that doesn't make sense.
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I absolutely agree that they should have reshot the unmasking scene, it would have been really easy to do, as most of it was over Luke's shoulder.
Maybe Lucas will change it again one day.
But in a way it is good that they put Hayden Christiansen in that scene, because I recently watched all six movies together and it helps to bridge them together.
The people who moan about the pregquels should watch all the movies together, it mostly works, and its easy to see what Lucas intended with his grand and imaginative vision. -
Yes, they are just movies, so don't get all bent out of shape. But if you think George Lucas ever had a "grand and imaginative vision" then you're out of your mind. He obviously made it up as he went--know how I know? Because in the "Making Of" sections of the first two prequels you can see him WRITING THE SCRIPTS for the subsequent prequels, and then you see piece by piece how he determines which artist's rendering he's going to use for places like Coruscant and Mustafar and all those places, which character design he's going to use for Darth Maul (heads up George Lucas lovers, Darth Maul was created by SOMEBODY ELSE, right down to the double-ended lightsaber, not by Lucas himself, all Lucas did was write a name down in the script). The only reason I know this is because I'm a film lover and I watch pretty much most special features on a DVD, even if I hated the film (and sometimes ESPECIALLY if I hated it), so if you doubt it, just watch the "Making Of" stuff yourself. To tell the truth, I didn't really believe the bitching and moaning, either, and though I do think people take these films WAAAAYYYY too seriously, you can see that the haters have a point. Just as I wouldn't discount AVATAR haters (b/c they DO have a point), I also wouldn't EVER AGAIN describe Lucas as a "grand and imaginative" visionary. Anyways...we're all just floating...
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Jan 29, 2010 11:22:47 AM CST
I think it's possible to love both AVATAR and STAR WARS
by colonelfatheart
I enjoy them both, and I'll revisit them a few times. In a way, yes, AVATAR could well be this generation's STAR WARS, judging by the reaction of younger folks around the world. We'll see. Someone mentioned HARRY POTTER above. I'd agree that, yes, the entire POTTER phenomenon (books, movies, etc.) is probably the closest thing we've seen in terms of STAR WARS-type cultural penetration (heh, heh). In fact, I'd bet that HARRY POTTER eventually eclipses STAR WARS, if it hasn't already, as the preeminent cultural touchstone for an entire generation. There are still a lot of kids grooving on POTTER, and they're going to grow up with an attachment to the material like many in Generation X and Y. The AVATAR universe will have to grow before it can contend with the sheer volume of either STAR WARS or POTTER. The seed, and what a seed it is, has been planted, though.
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George Lucas's Cock and Balls are starting to sell out at the Diamond Booth but don't worry, for those who don't get his privates this time around we will be giving out golden tickets to reserve you the right to get on his dick later!
45 MINUTES TO THE CLOSING OF COMI-CON 2010! -
That Lucas had all the design concepts and every line of dialogue and everything else all planned out in 1977. Only a fucking RETARD would think that's what we've been discussing this whole time.What we have ALWAYS SAID is that he had a rough idea for the prequels, a general OUTLINE of the history of that universe. Nobody has ever supplied a scintilla of evidence that this isn't true.But hey, maybe while combing through your "insider info" in the special features of the DVDs, maybe you'll find the proof you're looking for. AYE YAY FUCKING YAY!
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Forget about the prequels. They suck, but they do not in any way take away from the greatness of the Original Trilogy. What does take away from the original films is Lucas going back and heavy-handedly tampering with them by adding unnecessary cgi bullshit. I'm all for digital remastering and cleaning up the original prints and removing things like the matte boxes around the X-Wing fighters and such. Which brings me to why I hate George Lucas. He has such contempt for fans of his films that he will not release digitally remastered versions of the Original Trilogy the way they were originally shown in the theater. And no the crappy DVD transfers from laserdisc released a couple years back do not suffice. If anything it is just more evidence of his contempt for his fans.
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Sadly, most people DO feel this way about Lucas, that he more or less created EVERY SINGLE FACET of SW WAAAAYYYYY back in 1977. Didn't mean to get you in a rage, and I have no "insider info," just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
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AMERICAN GRAFFITI.
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...the planet of Coruscant, from its name right down to every bit of the Senate and capital and look and design, was created by Timothy Zahn in the SW novels. You can look that up free of charge, no "insider info" necessary, at Wikipedia, Wookiepedia, or just Google. That's only the BEGINING. Gotta go train now, see you guys.
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I've been talking about Star Wars since there's BEEN Star Wars.Maybe I could see how some sort of mental midget could possibly think that rough scripts for the prequels existed prior to 1999, but fucking COSTUMES AND SET DESIGNS? What oraphace are you pulling that shit from? Christ on a fucking CRUTCH what a fucking DUMBASS!And George made it CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR what he was doing from 1999 on. There was an entire magazine called Star Wars Insider that detailed the very length process of building those films from the ground up based on George's outlines. That's why they could start building sets and casting before he wrote the scripts.Did ideas mature over the script-writing process? How could they not? that doesn't mean he started at fuckign ZERO!My GAWD are there some dumb mother fuckers stumbling around this world!
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Jan 29, 2010 11:58:21 AM CST
Jubal...or should I just refer to you as "Dipfuck #2"?
by revenge_of_fett
MacQuarie did CONCEPT ART for Coruscant for Episode IV! Go look THAT shit up!
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There were certainly plenty of improvements in the SEs. I would say 80% of it was good. But there were a lot of problems too.The Wampa footage I think dissipates some of the tension of that scene.In one scene on the Millenium Falcon Luke's lightsaber is GREEN! I don't know how the heck that happened.Ronto's suck. I also didn't really like the redesign of the Dewbacks, although I liked the added scene showing how the Stormtroopers figured out there were droids in the pod.The whole Jabba in Ep. IV thing is ridiculous. From stepping on the tail to repeating the same dialogue Han just had with Greedo, it's just bad. The only nice thing it does is put Boba in there and it sort of explains why Han is in such a hurry all of a sudden. In my opinion they should redo the scene, but without Jabba. If it were Boba he was talking to on behalf of Jabba, I think it would work better. But Harrison's acting doesn't quite match up to being threatened by such an imposing figure. probably best to just cut the scene entirely.
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Do we really need all that cgi crap running around on the ground on Tatooine? Talk about overkill.
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They enabled me to actually see the movies on the big screen. I wasn't born for ANH or ESB, and I was way too young when ROTJ came out. I just wish I was able to see simple remastered versions of the originals, with no CGI characters screwing around.
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Doing something about the lightsaber battle in ANH. Although riveting at the time, it looks completely ridiculous now. Actually all the lightsaber battles in the OT look pretty lame. It's mostly variations on "I'll go this way, you go that way, and we'll slap the blades together in the middle".But there's plenty of stuff George could still "fix" if he wanted to. if you guys haven't seen that fan fix, I think it's called Star Wars Revisited, check it out. The coolest thing he did was put Yavin in the background of the Death Star battle. It's something I had never thought of before but makes perfect sense. And it looks really cool! I think George should hire that guy to make all the same changes.Oh and please George, go back to the carbon-scored, flaming wounds on the Stormtroopers when they got shot! I really miss those.
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or playing devil's advocate. You know very well that Han Shot Greedo first. I look at film as history. Lucas can do anything he likes with his movies. Just make the originals in theatrical form available for those of us who are purists. We deserve that much from the fat bastard. Those are the only ones I want to buy and will buy.
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As opposed to the ridiculousness of the final lightsaber battler between Anakin and Obi Wan in Revenge where cgi versions of Hayden and Ewan are bouncing back and forth on cgi rocks floating in cgi lava like Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck high on goofballs.
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Or probably Shitfuck. But that's just me.
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...that Avatar came out of nowhere, a completely original project, and SHATTERED box office records...in mere weeks. Yeah yeah, inflation, 3D, IMAX, blah blah blah, doesn't make it any less impressive. Hollywood can release all the 3D IMAX movies they want, none of them will hold as strong and make as much as Avatar. This movie has driven fans to see it 5+ times... And sure it isn't breaking records for attendance, but that number is constantly growing as well, certainly nothing to sneer at. Harry Potter may be a bigger phenomenon, but it's clear as far as movies go, people much prefer Avatar.
Most of you people are walking contradictions..."Avatar isn't really anything new, it's a derivative ripoff...", then moments later "the only reason it made money is because audiences wanted something new". What?? That's idiotic. Avatar is more original then almost any other blockbuster of the decade, yet it's very familiar and accessible, and that's the genius of it. I cant believe some of you still defend the godawful prequels. Some of the worst characters EVER...whiny fucks with no personality whatsoever, doing some of the most nonsensical shit imaginable. No soul that made the original films great...Avatar on the other hand is fine filmmaking. A solid plot that always makes sense and never gets bogged down with pointless characters and pointless subplots. A narrative that is ALWAYS advancing, and not reliant on shitty action scenes. The only complaint about Avatar is that it should have been even longer...blame IMAX for that. I know most of you are jaded by it's success - which may I remind you NO ONE predicted, in fact most predicted failure, which many seem to forget now - by don't get it confused, audiences are going Avatar crazy. -
so at least he's done that, and my criticism probably isn't worth a damn. But it strikes me as a bad business decision that Lucas isn't putting out the original versions on remastered DVD/Blu Ray. There has to be a pretty big market for that.
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...wrong again, I'm afraid. Concept art, sure, but CREATION, nope. Look at the date of publicataion for HEIR TO THE EMPIRE by Timothy Zahn. Sorry man, but you're just gonna get schooled in THIS debate if you're gonna keep goin down that line. There was an IDEA back then maybe, sure, but CREATION?
Even if that were true, that means SOMEONE ELSE developed it. It's not like Lucas is an artist like Cameron, who VERY LITERALLY is hands-on when it comes to developing images and creatures for his films. Hence, no visionary award for Lucas, which I said in my original post which wasn't even DIRECTED at you.
Look this up too if you want: Know how Darth Vader looks all cool with that mask, helmet, voice, and breathing? Not in the script. All of it was b/c a constume designer saw that the first scene with Darth and the Stormtroopers in ANH had them crossing from one ship to the other, in outer space, so she figured, maybe they need helmets to breathe with. His heavy breathing came from the sound effects guy's thoughts on a breathing apparatus function for the suit. Georgie boy didn't create that iconic character, just his name--thus, no visionary, as my original post was trying to point out. Point blank and period. All Lucas did was write down character names and planet names. You can do that, I can do that, anybody can do that. Are we all visionaries? Let's do it together right now...ummm, let's see, you already called "Dipfuck," so let's make up a new name...Milar Tobazzo. There, that's our main character, and he's from the planet...ummmm...Yazlo, sure. And Yazlo is ummmm...half snow, half volcanic planet. There, you do all the concept art, and I'll be the visionary.
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Jan 29, 2010 1:47:23 PM CST
Jubal, just stop. You look like a child weilding an electric kni
by revenge_of_fett
Nothing good can come of it. You're so stupid you can't even comprehend what I'm saying. Ralph MacQuarrie didn't INVENT Coruscant you sniveling douchebag, he was hired by George Lucas to draw it! GEORGE LUCAS created the concept of Coruscant. He named it, he described it to MacQuarrie, and as a hired artist, MacQuarrie painted it. So this completely ridiculous idea that you happened to read about Coruscant a decade later in an EU book means that is when that concept was invented....you're just digging your own grave dude.
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Jan 29, 2010 1:57:19 PM CST
Jubal, that wasn't a "she", again that was Macquarrie
by revenge_of_fett
He came up with the breath mask for Vader. I'm hardly discounting his contribution. I'm saying that while every detail was not dreamed up by Lucas himself (NO director does), the STRUCTURE was. That's all ANYONE HAS EVER SAID!By I don't even understand why you're talking about ANH now because I thought your argument was that Lucas didn't come up with every single aspect of the prequels, therefore he is shit.Oh...were you under the impression that Jim Cameron invented every single part of Avatar? HA HA, that's a good one.
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Maybe the HELMET, but the mask--just watch Special Features of ANH, it's all explained there, I haven't the time to enumerate all the details that were chalked up to Lucas later, got better things to do. BTW, I don't mind debating, and if you guys have sources that GENUINELY can be cited, I'm GENUINELY all ears and prefer to learn, but you guys seem to impress yourselves too much with the insults and the mud-slinging. I only slung back to let you see how it reads/sounds when someone does it back. Chill out, boys. (BTW, as a rebuttal to the argument that I'm a retard--do retards have IQs of 157? Didn't think so. And as for MY sources, I read the same source materials you guys do.) I too once had the gut reaction to defend Lucas as a visionary, but then I did more reading. If you want to say that someone BESIDES Zahn came up with a name (which Wookiepedia tells me was Zahn's decision, Lucas had another name and Zahn named it after a Corusca gem in canon), then whatever. But I'm talking about the ORIGINAL argument that someone posited that Lucas was a "visionary." To me, "visionary" has a TERRIFIC list of requirements, and one of them doesn't include saying "Mustafar is a volcanic planet, now you draw it all and develop it and create it organically, and then you'll get this little mention in the end credits and I'll be the one interviewed constantly for my vision." And as for JackSlater...I'm out of my element? Really? Are AICN Talkbacks really so cerebral that they blow minds? Especially when the rebuttal to an argument is to say "You fucking retard!" Hmmmm...ya know, maybe I am out of my element.
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thus making him a visionary. He just demonstrates VISION. Never said that Lucas had to do it all to be a visionary. Anyways...we're all just floating...
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Jesus Christ...
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...did you READ that? I will read your source? Now, will you also seek out the sources I'VE pointed out? SW special features, any articles about Coruscant's origins. THERE, that's how debate is done. I will learn and you will learn. I'd rather be right than win an argument. How about you? Willing to double-check from other sources BESIDES the single annotated script? Perhaps that script is not such a "slam dunk" argument as you think.(Again with the mud-slinging, Slater? C'mon, man.)
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Man ... this whole thread exemplfies the squalid excesses of geekdom. Especially SW geekdom. You guys are a hoot.
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I still think it's cool that Lucas had the lead actors who played Jedi do most of their own stuntwork. It allowed us to have closeups of Liam Neeson, Ewan MacGregor, et. al. actually doing those amazing moves. Compare that to a Star Trek film where every stunt is done in a wide shot so the (usually obvious) stunt doubles can do the hard stuff. Even though I think the prequels are turgid and nearly unwatchable I still think that's pretty cool .
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..was the most memorable part of ROTS...well actually there were a few good scenes from Mace's demise to the scene whereas a limbless Ani professes his blind hatred toward Obi only to be reborn as Darth V.Hands down Sith was the best out of those shitty prequels.
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You are right that Zahn came up with the name "Coruscant". I did not know that. However, in his own words "Just to make it clear, I did not invent the planet...George Lucas had invented the planetwide city a long time ago."So Lucas invented Coruscant, albeit with a different name. He told Ralph McQuarrie what he wanted it to look like, Ralph painted it, George gave him his input and asked him to do more pictures with direction for what he was looking for.I'd say that pretty much fulfills George Lucas as "visionary".
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I can't even believe i read it myself. Wow, just, wow!! What will this be, Willow 2: The Musical?
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Perhaps at one point he was on a creative roll, but that was short lived. He did not direct the best Star Wars film, and there was nothing remotely spectacular in those godawful prequel films. Cameron is absolutely a visonary, he controls almost every aspect of his films, even doing a fair share of artwork and design. Lucas had full control on the prequels and what did we get? Cameron had control for almost all of his films, and he's yet to make one that isn't at least "good".
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If they can all take the week off to defend George Lucas on this thread. First trilogy was great, but the carp that followed it made me throw out the originals. Seriously, I've tried watching the original and I can't get the crapfest that was Menace/Clone/Sith out of my head. Out of the six movies only the first two are REALLY good. Return snuck in just for the first half. Can't wait for someone else to inherit Stars Wars.
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Spielberg and Jim Steranko. Steranko nailed the look of Indie before Ford was even in the running.
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HAHAHAH! Crap! I can't spell for shit! YouTube review of Phantom Menace is ten times better and more entertaining that all three prequels!
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Fuck me! I didn't even get that far. Seriously? Why not a Star Wars fucking musical while he is at it? And he could do it all with Muppets! Kermit could be the new Yoda. Same voice.
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Just give us the original unaltered OT on bluray also!! let him do his "final archival definitive editions" that would be nice to have and would tie up the series nicely. The senate and palp in ep.4, with Jimmy Smits and mayb jar jar, all would be good in my opinion. It would be great to add a scene of Palp dismantling the government and abolishing the senate, instead of simply hearing Tarkin talk about it. CGI all you want too George, just leave the originals intact for us!!
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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he cannot put Jar Jar into episode 4. That would totally destroy the last vestiges of good feelings I have towards the property!!!!! Please God, NO!!!!
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my point is, I don't care what he does. As long as we get the originals on Blu ray. I'm not against his alterations and updates. I just wish he wouldn't take away the beloved OT before it was altered.
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I had just heard about it too many times and wanted to see what all the fuss was about.It was entertaining, but he rarely made a coherant point.It was mostly crap like "Why didn't Anakin just steal his master's (who could trigger an explosive in he and his mothers head if they misbehaved) protocol droid instead of building one from salvage he scraped together?" Ummmmm....Seriously?The only time he says anything that makes sense is severe nitpicking. In general he draws the wrong conclusions and complains about them.At ALL times during his "review" he forgets that TPM was the 4th highest grossing film of all time (at that point). MOST of that was due to repeat viewings, not opening weekend. So the idea that it was all "hype" is ridiculous. People LOVED that movie. He obviously just didn't understand ANY of it.What I really didn't expect going in is that EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT int this thread about that movie originated from that review! I'm serious when I say I had never heard any of theose complaints before, because they didn't EXIST before this review! Christ, at least come up with your only complaints! The problem is that this guy's complaints largely don't make any sense so I guess the lesson is, be careful who's stance you adopt. Or, at least understand the stance you choose to adopt so you can defend it.
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that 7 part review is funny- but over all that guy misses the point, and severe nitpicking on the OT will have similar results.
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George Lucas is making a musical for Spooks! Ok smart ass, not all musicals are for Spooks! Unless you're calling me a Spook, if so you can kiss my black ass!
It's the same thing fat ass.
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The same people throwing George Lucas under the bus and claiming everything he does is crap will give the pass you used to give Lucas to Whedon and basically any other flavor of the month writer/director. I'm not trying to say the man is a God, clearly not (Howard the Duck), but the original trilogy is wonderful. Lucas didn't direct all of them, but he came up with the idea. The new trilogy isn't on par with the originals, but I found them fun. Does everyone want blood, gore, and adult themes in all aspects of Star Wars? It doesn't fit. Either way, I'm sure ILM will do lots of great work in the future. By the way, didn't ILM do some work on the Fergully in space film Avatar?
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The YouTube review is pretty dead on and it was pointed out to me by two of George's biggest fans. That is not "severe nitpicking". The original trilogy was wonderful, so good I could over look the flaws in Return. But the new trilogy just plain suck. If he really wanted to nitpick I'm sure his critique would have been much longer.
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was a smaller scale series of films, less characters and lent itself to tighter storytelling. the prequels were a much larger scale, involved politics and had twice as many characters...and if you watch 1-6 it kinda works, the story starts out big and bold, and gradually narrows down.
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Is too fucking slow and dimwitted to follow the politics, the bargaining, how the midiclorians work or even the whole fucking philosophy of the movie, is a "dead on" rebuke against the fucking movie?
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The guy is pissed that it doesn't follow a cookie-cutter plot! He thinks the greatest lightsaber fights, which pretty much everyone agrees on, don't "mean" anything because they aren't pausing to chat in the middle of them! This guy is a FLAMING FUCKING IDIOT and apparently, YOUR HERO!He CONTINUALLY makes stupid assertions like: A Queen would never take one second to honor a droid that SAVED HER BACON! And I've already completely destroyed most of his arguments in this very talkback.I'm sorry that this guy's friends are so imbecilic that they can't think of a single thing to describe the main character of the movie who spends most of his time speaking about his philosophy other than "DUUUUH! Her has a beard!", or Amidala who explains her convictions throughout the film. I'm sorry "Tumor_Binks" that you're so completely retarded that you actually IDENTIFY with that kind of utter vacuousness. But that's ON YOU and just goes to show that you are completely incapable of thinking for yourself.Now why don't you go listen to Rush L:imbaugh so you can figure out what you should think about politics. FUCKING CHRIST what an airhead you are!
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OK, Charles Vess would be a good production designer too. I was disappointed about there being no Goblin market in Stardust, I would have liked to see his creature designs realised. Alan Lee's work on LotR would be too close for another movie. Mike Ploog's art would be interesting to see as would Walt Simonson's. Of course without a story, it's moot anyway. Wonder if Charles DeLint does screenplays?
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I see your point and you enjoyed it. For you all six films make a complete whole. I just feel differently so let's leave it at that.
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Rush Limbaugh is a racist c##t for whom seeing Jar-Jar Binks would have probably laughed and made the film for him. I do know a little about politics and would love to have seen some real politics played out in this trilogy with some more realism. But it wasn't. The film couldn't decide which way to go and one of the best points the reviewer made about the film was that as a series for kids the politics were plain dull and over their heads. We had scenes like the pod-racers that were fun but ultimately made the film more disjointed. I don't want to get into a discussion that neither of us can win. You liked them and I didn't. Yes they made buckets of money BECAUSE the original trilogy were so good. Same goes for Indiana Jones. I still watched the prequel-sequels because each time I hoped that they would get better. To me they didn't. I did like the light-saber fight in Sith, but it didn't have more emotional impact than the one in New Hope and I still prefer the sword fight in Errol Flynn's Robin Hood. Feel free to continue to call me names if it makes you feel better. I understand. Must be tough having to defend those movies all the time.
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At 5 years old, you knew exactly what an ambassador was, what a diplomatic mission was. You knew exactly what "dissolving the Senate" meant and you knew what Regional Governors were. For that matter, you knew exactly what an Empire and a rebellion were right? Or maybe, JUST FUCKING MAYBE, it doesn't have to be ROMPER ROOM and it can actually have some layered content. That reviewer, and I guess you too, hated anything that rose above "goo goo ga ga".But let's analyze for a moment what all this horrifically complicated politics were in TPM. A planet was blockaded by an army. 2 arbitors were sent to negotiate. That's something else the reviewer fucked up, Jedi are, as it says right in the fucking crawl, "defenders of peace and justice". So yeah, they settle disputes every fucking day. Just like the Samurai they were based on did.The only other time politics comes into the picture is the Galactic Senate on Coruscant. I don't think it's too hard to follow what's going on there, you know, since Palpatine is EXPLAINING IT ALL TO AMIDALA! At that point were you just crying to yourself in utter self-pity because you had no fucking clue what was going on?Now I'm sure you're right that 5 year olds in the audience didn't understand those parts, but the beauty about films is that as you grow older and have more life experiences, you see new layers you didn't before.*snaps fingers* I'm sorry, I appear to have lost your attention. here, let me help you:*BIG EXPLOSION**Tumor_Binks claps likec a fucking tard and drools on himself*You know what? Nevermind.
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If you guys wanna see a really funny prequel review, check out this guy confused matthew on youtube- hysterical!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xInGZOsC5dk -
Is by defination a drooling down's syndrome type. The type who can't be trusted to eat unsupervised because he doesn't know the difference between food and his own feces. The prequels are feces.
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You'd fuck your own mother for feces like that madCanada.
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Let's just analyze your assumption that the prequels are "feces".A New Hope grossed $775M worldwide.The Phantom Menace grossed $924M worldwide.The Empire Strikes Back grossed $538M worldwideAttack of the Clones grossed $649M worldwideReturn of the Jedi grossed $475M worldwideRevenge of the Sith grossed $848M worldwideThe disparity is even greater when you take into account that the OT was released 3 times each, including the Special Editions!Hmmmmm....so the prequels made more money with less time in theaters than the original trilogy.....but they're total shit? Seems to me movies that are total shit, no matter how much hype they get, die off pretty quickly. Remember HUlk? Remember the Matrix sequels? Remember Godzilla? Remember Batman & Robin? All had MASSIVE ad campaigns, and all died very quickly at the box office, along with plenty of other examples. No, movies only get close to the billion dollar mark when people LIKE THEM. Seems like common sense to me. Apparently it's brain surgery to others.
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I was born the year SW came out, grew up with and still love the OT. I'd actually like Lucas to go balls out with the OT sort of like Jackson did with the extended rings (as long as Lucas keeps the ORIGINALS intact)!
But I've never thought of the PT as bad movies. there are so many crap movies that come out just for the sake of making money. At least Lucas told the story he wanted to tell. The PT is (in my opinion) waay better than all of these cgi shitfests and/or remakes that get pumped out of hollywood these days. -
That took more money worldwide than Empire and Return... Just short of New Hope. I guess that makes it a great film in your eyes too.
As crap as they were, I saw all three Star Wars prequels. Each time I hoped for something, anything, that showed the same spark as the original trilogy. I saw Phantom Menace twice because the first time I wanted to see it by myself as I knew I'd have to take my kids to see it again. I saw A New Hope nearly ten times at the theaters and lost count of how many times I saw it on video/DVD. Phantom I saw twice and that's twice too many. I wonder how many showings ANH had compared to PM? Inflation would affect worldwide grosses, after all they were released nearly 25 years apart.
A NEW HOPE $797,900,000
PHANTOM MENACE $922,379,000
Considering ANH cost $12 million, that's a pretty good mark up compared with PM $115 (estimated and never revealed). Factor in inflation... I think ANH wins out handsomely.
But ultimately I think I am just delaying the end of a thread that should never have been started. I hope George decides this is a movie he makes just so he can't mess up SW any more than he already has and I can one day watch the OT without having to think that the prequels ever happened. -
Umm ... your argument is that TPM is great because it made so much money? By the same argument, Celine Dion is the greatest singer that ever lived. Celine and the Prequel films are highly profitable shit, that's all. Their success is not reflection of their merits, but of the fact that there are a lot of bone-stupid dummies out there. It was brand loyalty that kept the dummies coming, same principle that keeps tards eating at McDonalds. Anyway, enough. I've got better things to do than flame-war with a 12-year-old.
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you know, actually TANGIBLE for why the prequels are "feces". Oh, are we all supposed to say "Oh, madCanada said they are feces....I guess they are then. Boy I'm glad he came along to let us know."?And Celine Dion made more money than Elvis, the Beatles or Michael Jackson eh? Gee, you learn something every day. *eyeroll*
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Naboo was both importing AND exporting goods. That's why they call it "trade" and not "give", or "take".But that's actually the main issue with the blockade. The 7-part reviewer says "Why does the Trade Federation want to block trade?". They don't. They are protesting the TAXATION OF TRADE ROUTES. This is right in the movie.These are just trumped up claims of course set in motion by Palpatine to stage in intergalactic incident which he can exploit and be imposed as Chancellor.The question of "why does a Trade Federation have an army?" comes up. This is a perfectly legitimate question if you are a fucking retard. The movie plainly states that the Federation purchased teh army from the Nemoidians because THE WHOLE PLAN WAS TO INVADE NABOO! Christ on a fucking crutch it's amazing some of you people are smart enough to remember to keep breathing!
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As far as I know, the Trade Federation is pretty much a private corporation that regulates trade throughout the Republic- They're so rich and powerful that they even have a seat in the senate, although they're not representing a planet. They use battledroids as security but pumped up the droids into numbers to land/invade Naboo, they must've done this because Sidious told them to...
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Now how is it you and I got that pretty much right away, yet there are plenty of morons walking around with retarded questions like "Why does a Republic need a Queen?"?
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If the movie ends up to be outstanding that's great, but if it's going to blow than that will further cement Lucas as beyond a complete idiot, and no longer fit to rule the kingdom he built.
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Here is a hilarious animated short about David Lynch and George Lucas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAyo1wE4Vo
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