Cool News
Fox Developing An American TORCHWOOD??
I am – Hercules!!
“Queer Like Folk” creator Russell Davies, who retired from running the BBC’s “Doctor Who” so he could move to Los Angeles and break into American show business, is developing for Fox an American version of his BBC “Who” spin-off “Torchwood.”
“Torchwood” follows covert investigators charged with keeping an eye on troublesome extraterrestrials.
If the American version goes to series, John Barrowman may reprise his role as Capt. Jack Harkness.
Find all of The Hollywood Reporter’s story on the matter here.
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yes!
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...but it had more than its fair share of bad episodes. Series Three "Children of Earth" was enjoyable.
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That might actually be a cool idea! I just hope he makes it more serious and gets rid of all sillyness. I hope it stays connected somewhat to the original. Might make a good show.
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sci-fi fans. That's saying something.
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Torchwood without any connection to Doctor Who is pointless. It will simply be a gay version of the X-Files. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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I guess I'm one of the few who really enjoyed Torchwood from the get-go. There were a handful of less-than-impressive episodes, but not as many as some would have you believe. And when Torchwood was firing on all cylinders, like in "Children of Earth" or older episodes like "Countrycide," "Random Shoes," "Captain Jack Harkness/End of Days," "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" and "Adrift," it was amazing. An Americanized version will be defanged and much less interesting, even with the presence of John Barrowman. Hmm.. it appears that Torchwood UK is dead in the water going forward, and this is the only way to keep the concept alive. Sad.
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Jan 19, 2010 6:25:56 PM CST
Don't they already have an American version of Torchwood?
by fa_tass_dinomolester
Called Fringe? ABUH?!?!
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that Doctor Who will also get the American makeover. Davies is bringing both shows with him to America. I wonder what the budgets were over at the BBC because Fox will give them $4-5m an episode.
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Fringe because it doesn't try to stay in the real world and only have things that could possibly happen.
Torchwood has aliens that survive on sex, fairies, a gay guy that's immortal and even more weird stuff.
I'm fine with an American Torhwood, I just wish Russell Davies wasn't in charge of it. The man doesn't know the meaning of over the top and Americans aren't as likely to buy some of the shit he pulls. -
It would be hard to top it. BUT, I thought there was more than one TORCHWOOD team, as was hinted at in some Doctor Who and Torchwood eps. If Capt Jack came back to help establish an American team, that could, possibly, be interesting. As long as Walter Bishop was one the team. Oh, wait...
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Fuck you, Davies. FUCK YOU, you money pimping whore. What, the British actors in the original not good-looking enough for American audiences? FUck off.
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One where Jack is out doing god knows what out in the universe, not being a babysitter for a bunch of people who are too smart for their own good. This will suck just like Season 2 of Torchwood sucked. HARD.
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When it is still going and has Moffat running the show? Moffat episodes of Who aren't just better than other Who, they're just better than almost anything.
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I'm going for the record
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Jan 19, 2010 6:44:27 PM CST
I didn't even have to say "Harry Knowles, please die" this time
by poutineforeveryone
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RTD needs to be shot if he tries to reboot the Dr. as an American series. And there is just so many things wrong about trying to bring torchwood to America. Unless of course Eve Myles comes along.
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Jan 19, 2010 7:00:06 PM CST
The BBC wouldn't let him make a US Doctor Who
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
Now when they have their own show that makes quite a bit of money... right?
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Jan 19, 2010 7:02:38 PM CST
Well Herc, maybe James Marsters will reprise Captain John Hart
by spyguy
I think an Americanized TORCHWOOD has a shot if Barrowman reprises Captain Jack. An Americanized DOCTOR WHO, however, is outright blasphemy.
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fox will fuck it up, just like every scifi show they have ever done. the x-files is no exception, as they turned it to shit, to keep it alive past expiration (sure you can blame carter for sucking as well after the 4th season). would it be better than the fox doctor who movie? sure. will RTD have fun dealing with fox execs? about as much as joss whedon. please don't let this happen.
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now that i could get behind.
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First Being Human now this. Leave Torchwood alone.
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which means the BBC has already agreed to develop these American versions.
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An American Doctor Who??? FUUUUUUUUUUCK'N RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Queer as Folk. I get the "wouldn't watch it, it's all about teh gays", but at least get the title right. There's a little pun in there that means it's not so difficult.
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Frankly I find Torchwood too fucking nihilistic. But for all that shit, the part that would keep this from flying on American TV was the gay sex. It could fly on cable like Queer as Folk, but not regular networks. But besides, who the hell wants to watch this depressing world where children are eaten and the heroes always arrive to late? Fuck that! The Brits are masochists.
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One TV movie in 1996 and never seen again. I sometimes think these BBC adaptions try too hard to dumb down the original Brit versions (although they did a great job of dumbing down The US Office).
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And, if both are a co-production between Fox and BBC Worldwide..., They could work.
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RTD will use Paul McGann as the Doctor and give us a look at the "Time War".
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..that might be cool, but I dounb it would ever be explored that creatively.
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...Who and Torchwood. It's different. It's not NY, it's not LA and I enjoy them for that.
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If Capt Jack came back to help establish an American team, that could, possibly, be interesting. And,of course Eve Myles has to come Back!!!!!
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It should be utterly impossible for anyone to maker a shittier version of 'Torchwood' than the original, but I have faith in Fox. Especially if Ol' Chief Woodenface Barrowman is involved.
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BBC learned their lesson with the 1996 Doctor Who movie. But, I liked it!!!!
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Wasn't Torchwood commissioned by Queen Victoria to protect the British Empire? unless along the way the Doctor pisses off Abraham Lincoln and he commissions the Gettysburg institute or some shit like that. An American Torchwood team with Barrowman could be interesting but absolutely no way should they americanize Doctor Who. I agree with jedirob, the british flavor for me is a big part of Doctor Who. Doing an american version would drive me as crazy as Dalek Caan after he flew into the Time War.
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Jokes aside, how can you have Torchwood without Doctor Who? I mean it's a freaking anagram!
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As we say in america, "Give it a try before you buy".
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So, let's have Torchwood with Doctor Who, sounds great to me.
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If this is a continuation, then it's got potential for radness. If they're going to go the route of The Office or Queer as Folk remakes and just totally reboot & recast everything then I say "fuck that shit."
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nets have been ripping each other off internationally for years, since digital distribution has become so widespread, I wonder how much longer we will have country specific shows. Alot of us rebel at the idea of Americanizing the very traditionally British Dr Who universe, mainly because we have been exposed to it via digital distribution
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Really RTD, please go back to the UK.
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but really, what an awful show. to make it worse, it seems like barely any of the shows were actually about aliens, and usually just about random, stupid stuff all explained by the "rift." I'm so pissed that the potential in that show was wasted.
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Fox won't be stupid enough to bastardize Who again..and they can't even if they want to. The rights to Who don't belong to the BBC or BBC WorldWide so would create an int'l. legal nightmare..My guess Fox is giving WorldWide this press release to effectively take the property off the market while they quietly develop something similar with a different creative team..then they will bury Torchwood and Who in "development hell". Don't believe me? Try finding a copy of Fox's BBC adaptation of Absolutely Fabulous from last year. It was legendarily bad, even one of the worst adaptations of all time if you talk to people in the know. Same creative team (sans RTDs involvement) as this. Don't hold your breath.
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Was the North American Torchwood.
What about a RTD update of Land of the Lost? He could do to LotL what he did to Doctor Who. Make it fresh , contemporary and relevant--honoring the mythology and history of the show while making it watchable. Forget the movie and the 90's tv series reboot--just pick it up where the show left off 'cept lots more awesome. -
no more Marshall Will and Holly. Maybe Chaka.
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If they do a Dr Who American Style.
With Lizzy Caplan as his companion.
And for Torchwood they can have Captain Jack come in to start and lead a new US branch.
His team could consist of Gretchen Mol, Sarah Shahi, Sam Witwer and Ken Leung.
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I mean, Jack has lived long enough to have established a Torchwood in every major country of the world, really. It would be very interesting if they keep it in continuity.
That said, NO to an American Who. -
what are you talking about? Fox is not in the business of sending press releases for nothing. And if the BBC doesn't own the Who rights then who the hell does? BBC owns everything over there when it comes to broadcasting.
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Aargh. There's no point if there are no omni-sexual shenanigans.
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Jan 19, 2010 10:55:26 PM CST
Lincoln will replace Queen Victoria as the founder of Torchwood
by yotzvonfrelnik
Wait a minute... Abraham Lincoln as the supervisor of a paranormal investigation force? ...That's THE AMAZING SCREW-ON HEAD!
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Bored with Russell Davies yet? Yeah, me too.
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He won't have even half the creative freedom he had on the BBC, and they'll force him to cast the most boring, talent-free generic actors - none of whom will be of color, of course, or even gay, I'll wager. It will never get off the ground, and if it does, it will be a pale shadow of the original. This is almost as bad as the prospect of SyFy's potential dumbing down of Being Human. LEAVE GREAT BRITISH TV SERIES ALONE, SILLY US PRODUCERS.
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Lizzy Caplan as the Doctor's companion? Yes please. She's hotter than any of RTD's British Who companions.
Ken Lueng as a Torchwood team member? Brilliant! -
Isn't that what Torchwood was based on?
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Simply by the completely nonsensical and random gay makeout scenes shoved into most of the episodes. They didn't propel the plots, made NO sense in regards to the characters' past actions and served no purpose other than to feed Russell T. Davies' and John Barrowman's compulsions to have men making out on camera.The show was a failure in Great Britain, in good part because of this, and Davies thinks sci-fi audiences will embrace it here in the U.S.A.??? Idiot. We have ENOUGH crap on American television already, thank you very much.
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"Torchwood has aliens that survive on sex, fairies, a gay guy that's immortal and even more weird stuff."Redundant much?
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...the lead singer of New Found Glory.
http://tinyurl.com/yf5yzmw
That is all. -
I know someone who's seen that Absolutely Fabulous American remake, and they turned Amish. This smacks of Davies/Layter/BBC pimping a successful franchise to a network that has more $$$. That's it in a nutshell, pure whoring.
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David Letterman with tits? I liked the character, but that bitch needs an orthodontist like mad. There's your socialized healthcare in action folks.
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If British socialised healthcare results in people having goofy teeth, how do you explain David Lettermans?
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and it came within a cunt-hair of being cancelled, except that the 5 part mini-series drew respectable ratings and critical praise.
This was despite the fact that the mini-series wasn't THAT good. (Good opening, went rapidly downhill, plot holes you could fly a spaceship through)
I hope RTD gets back to doing what he does reasonably well. Character drama. He should stay the fuck away from SciFi, because he just doesn't get it. -
Jan 20, 2010 3:07:57 AM CST
I would just rather it be like it's a branch of Torchwood in Ame
by cornstalkwalker
With a new cast and perhaps Capt Jack just shows up to oversee everything.
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I CANNOT WAIT TO SEE THIS!!!
Yo know, the Fox TORCHWOOD is going to make the UK TW look like Shakespeare. The most depressing thing about all this is that with all the money Fox will throw at the concept, you'll have the greatest SFX filled gay rights PSA ever made on your hands, rather than the cutting edge SF most people THINK they'll be getting. But y'know what? RTD don't live here any more, and for that I'm massively thankful. So fuck these remakes - ESPECIALLY an American WHO!!! Brrr!! (Though Eric Roberts was better than John Simm as the Master - yeah, I said it! - and I prefer McGann's TARDIS to anyone else's) - and try watching some QUATERMASS, for those of you who enjoyed that pitch-black nihilistic ending to TW: CHILDREN OF EARTH. Especially THE QUATERMASS CONCLUSION. Or anything else by Nigel Kneale, who is spinning in his grave at how easily RTD has made a career out of ripping off his greatest hits... -
As long as RTD can control his urges to make DR WHO the big gay icon we all know he WANTED him to be, and doesn't make it one big Paul McGann/Barrowman love-fest. And for those who doubt this could happen... it WOULD.
The TIME WAR could be awesome, but it would require a writer who actually enjoys writing intelligent SF elements into their scripts, and doesn't do an Abrams and shoehorn a placeholder there instead of a properly written MacGuffin. It should also be noted that in a Time War series, events are just as important as characters, and Rusty's patented Deus Ex Machinas (tm) are NOT FUCKING WELCOME IN A TIME WAR SERIES!
In fact, fuck it. Don't make a TIME WAR series. Make Fox's TORCHWOOD instead. Sweeeeeeeeet!!! -
Jan 20, 2010 3:56:40 AM CST
Make it then Fox can cancel it mid season when it starts to get
by the_taste_of_love
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Personal pride. The man has more money then god's accountant, yet he refuses to seal the Panama Canal running smack dab in the middle of his pie hole.
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He might surpise us and give us something great!!!!!!!!
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he was looking haggard
It was something DR Who'ish
Barrowman had put on weight and he had aged considerably
I've heard the guy parties pretty hard
Success may be giving him the means to slowly kill himself
Just sayin.... -
RTD & David Tennant are both in the USA now, so, if Tennant's NBC pilot doesn't have a go, maybe.............. you know what I'm thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!
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You're right -I was amazed at how great CHILDREN OF EARTH was. Then I rewatched THE QUATERMASS CONCLUSION, and if you watch that imagining Captain Jack as Bernard Quatermass, then it's exactly the same ending - right down to the sacrifice!
All of Rusty's best work is someone else's work, with the names and places changed. I'd love to be surprised by the US/BBC WHO and TORCHWOOD stuff, but it'll be same old, same old with better SFX and better looking leads, in the same generic cities ALL US SF shows are set in. Props to FRINGE, for at least TRYING to show different locales, but still looking very much like THE X-FILES... -
I guess I'm wrong? Honestly, I wouldn't mind Torchwood coming to Fox, IF Barrowman is back as Jack. I would love to see it as a continuation of the series. I say a big NO to Doctor Who being rebooted in the States. It ain't broken, so it doesn't need fixed.
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love the universal bashing of the NHS and of teeth great british sterotypes there! brilliant to see that SOMEyou yanks are still so far up your own backside you think that as the most obese nation on the planet your still the most pretty
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In the very first episode of Torchwood (if memory serves) Jack mentions other locations of Torchwood. It only stands to reason that there would be different branches around the world.
But on a different topic, have you seen this new show on BBC called "Demons"? Talk about a 'Buffy' knockoff. The last Van Helsing fights vampires and demons with a mentor named Rupert with their base of operations being a library full of demon lore. -
and hearing the guy say "you're watching BBC ermericker oon damond"
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mate demons is on itv. and yes it is absolute utter garbage its been cancelled now coz it was so shite
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But will The Doctor make any cameos?
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The comment made earlier about Americans less likley to buy some of the crap he pulls made me laugh as the intelligent shows get cancelled in America all the time. 'Serenity, Journeyman, Dollhouse, and Terminater to name a few. That said I did agree with the OTT comment as his shows are usually !Gay Joke and innuendo, followed by big chase on foot, followed by more innuendo some of it hetro to not alienate the audience, followed by another chase, follow by bad guy biting it or cliffhanger depending on whether it is a two parter or not!' Thats another thing, what is wrong with storylines running through a series, why does everything need to be stand alone or one or two episodes at the moment? RD is guilty of this as are most sci fi shows.
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Jan 20, 2010 8:39:36 AM CST
Does anyone think America is ready for a gay action hero
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Even in a sci-fi show?
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Must never forget to mention Deus Ex Machina when discussing Russell T Davies. It's, like, part of his job description or sumthin'.
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My bad
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Hey you fuckers. So Russell Daviies uses too much gay content and you don't like it. Now you know how we queers feel having to put up with all the fucking heterosexual activity breeder show runners bring to regular TV. Get over it, assholes.
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Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Jan 20, 2010 9:08:17 AM CST
Redo it completely removed from Doctor Who Continuity....
by thecomedian
I was always hoping they'd remove Torchwood from continuity. I'm sure Moffat will never show or bring them up again anyhow. Davies is such a hack that that's the best he can offer Hollywood is a remake of his stupid sci-fi gay porn. At least he's done with The Doctor.
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American primetime will not warm up to a strong male lead that is bi-sexual.
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Normally I'm fairly polite to hatemongers, and even those who AREN'T hatemongerers, but passionate about their point of view (take a bow, Smashing).
But you are just a twat, aren't you??
Point 1: If current statistics are to be believed, there's 1 non-hetero person to every 9 hetero persons in this world. Which makes you a minority. Deal with it. Nobody has a problem with the gay content, they have a problem with the fact that the gay content has fuck-all to do with the story, and everything to do with pushing some PC agenda that is not only distinctly Orwellian in its rigidity but is causing RTD's gay agenda to get in the way of the story. Do I care if Capt Jack is bi? Hell no. Do I care if the story is interrupted for a gratuitous gay scene which has no bearing on the plot or narrative, but is there purely to tick some box in some PC agenda-pushing right-on brain dead TV exec's List of PC Things To Do Today. But even if people DID have a problem, proportional representation should mean that for every 9 hetero scenes, there should be one gay scene. So stop fucking moaning.
Point 2: If it weren't for the "breeders", as you so charmingly put it, you wouldn't have been born. So fuck off and be grateful, you twat.
Point 3: Grow the fuck up, you hatemongering heterophobe. Your pathetic sub-troll efforts are not welcome in here. -
I think America could handle a gay action hero, if the subject of their sexuality was not the central premise of the show. Problem with TORCHWOOD is, Jack's sexuality is not just a major focus in the show, it also seems to be his sole character trait. Not only has RTD inexplicably lost his usually prodigious talent for writing character completely in TORCHWOOD, but his worst writing always seems to be for the gay characters - ironic, considering he did a mich better job in QUEER AS FOLK. As RTD's career progresses, his gay characters are regressing, becoming 2-D cyphers added to the story only as a placatory measure for the gay community, rather than as a 3-D character who has their own morals, ethics, beliefs, behaviour, fears, hopes and dreams.
Anyway, people handled Willow and Tara's relationship on BUFFY well. Why? BECAUSE IT WAS WELL WRITTEN. So, RTD, go rewatch BUFFY and see how gay characters in SF SHOULD be written. -
They could Americanize it by making it Dr How!
See? That's totally different. And the TARDIS would be in the shape of a Starbucks store. And they wouldn't have to write a script, they could just be post modern and have the actors watch American Idol. That would be so cool. -
It will probably won't even last a season.
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...fail.
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Jan 20, 2010 10:05:41 AM CST
Fox knows good scifi... and cancels it. THIS should run and run
by v'shael
I expect 10 seasons minimum. RTD can sell it as a sort of alien-Sex In The City, where Carrie's is a centaur who must buy each set of shoes twice, Samantha's pussy is so old that it's haunted, and Miranda is the bitchier version of Abaddon.
Yeah, that'll work. -
Yeah, I can't stand it when people push their agenda instead of a storyline. It would be good for the gays to have a positive portrayal that is not a queen, and it might be good for America too, but if they push an agenda with sex scenes or unneeded gay references, then it will fail totally.
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The American city all the shows are filmed in is Vancouver, BC in Canada.
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Like to just name a few...
SERENITY
DOLLHOUSE
BRISCO COUNTY JR.
Yeah, great job they did with these. Uh huh. -
Jan 20, 2010 10:51:01 AM CST
Ok, I guess you didn't know what I was thinking................
by axcel1
I was thinking RTD & Tennant could reteam to make a Doctor Who "The Missing Years" in the USA. And, Harkness taking over a leader of an american branch of Torchwood. We can only hope and pray.
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Don't get me wrong, my wife & I really dug/dig Torchwood. But as the show progressed, it shove The Gayness down our throats deeper & deeper, until we were literally gagging. We're OK with gay characters, but TW went from it being an edgy/fun character trait to a huge, inelegantly-integrated focal point. And it wasn't the kissing...did we really need to see the Cap'n cornholing Iantro over a table? BTW...wasn't he s'posed to be a BIsexual, "human/alien...male/female...if it moves, I'll tap it" kinda guy? OH...and where the hell does the BBC version now stand...is it DONE, or will there be more?
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..you're mostly right, except for the inexplicably gave Dollhouse MANY more chances/episodes than it's terrible ratings merited. Hell, Sarah Connor Chronicles (which you forgot to mention) did a lot better & got axed sooner. I'm sad it's leaving, but I actually kinda appreciate the fact Fox not only didn't yank after 5-6 eps in Season One, but they brought it back AND gave it a chance to wrap everything up.
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Leave it on BBC...LEAVE IT ALONE!!!
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Get the fuck outta here!
Pure blasphemy. This isn't like The Office or Absolutely Fabulous. Doc Who is inherently British...like The Beatles. It's part of it's DNA.
Russell...thank you for resurrecting the show but now it's time to move on.
And your gay...we get it. -
on the planet who is old enough, and did not have his mind wiped, after watching the American version of "Fawlty Towers", starring...I shit you not...Bea Arthur.As Basil Fawlty.
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You tell 'em. I'm so sick of that hetrosexual political agenda being rammed down my throat since... Well the dawn of time and all with them making babies and shit.
I bet 12% of the population likes stamp collecting too...doesn't mean we should weave into every fucking tv show. -
Well funny Deandome :-)
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But what about the Brits and the nonword "ennit?" at the end of everything? Equally annoying! Not to mention us Yanks and "y'know whutI'mSayn'?"
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It's refreshing having something different to the same old same old characters. Captain Jack Harkness has had relationships with both men and women over a hundred years. He even has a family, though his daughter looks the same age if not older than him because he never ages (or ages very slowly). At least he's not as dull and boring as 90% of characters out there. I hope Fox, for once, do this show justice.
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Jan 20, 2010 12:23:00 PM CST
So this all basically means Fringe is cancelled, right?
by jaylenotookmyjob
Because you know FOX'll be pinching pennies like, "Well we got this hot new weird-stuff show coming up called Torchwood and it has gay sex in it! We can't run TWO weird-stuff shows. Fringe therefore became redundant and didn't have crossover potential in the lucrative "Urban Show-Tunes-Loving" demographic."
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1) less gay.
2) less episodes. only 4-6 aired before being canceled. have to wait for the dvd release to see all 13 episodes.
3) more on screen explosions. people have to outrun explosions on fox. its just part of any standard contract. -
He is a much better actor and was the only decent thing on Torchwood (which was a really bad show btw) and is available at the moment.
As for the American Who thing I know RTD is a hack desperate for something to do now that he and his pathetic charachters (The last 15 mins of End of Time was him saying good bye to himself) he must be aware are not going to be touched by Moffat but still having the arrogance to think Dr Who is his creation is going to far. -
NO BBC doesn't own everything when it comes to broadcasting..whoever created the series does bc BBC WorldWide has to negotiate deals with talent separately to be able to adapt one of their series. I'm an agent and my client wanted to remake a BBC series from the 1970's and we couldn't because the series creator wasn't even still alive! Google "Terry Nation estate Doctor Who rights" if you want proof. BBC WorldWide as I understand is just a commercialized tax shelter for BBC which is "owned" by the people of the UK. And as for press releases..just pick up a Daily VARIETY from January 20 *2009* and tell me how many of the announced projects you read about have reached the airwaves. I'll tell you: Next to none. Torchwood (a bi lead character? um advertised during football?) is not a Fox show, so won't make it to airwaves. Just a way for a few Brits to get rich from a press release. And Who is a real longshot at best.
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I may be the minority here, but I was sort of looking forward to Jack showing up on new episodes of Doctor Who now that Moffat has control. Let us not forget, Captain Jack Harkness was created by Steven Moffat, and if you go back and watch that episode, Jack was actually a really interesting character. (Other interesting character of Moffat's: Sally Sparrow. I REALLY hope she pops up somewhere in the new series!)
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Don't forget, it was FOX who actually spearheaded & revived the Doctor franchise with that 2-hour special in 1996 (it was a JV of Fox, Universal & BBC, but Fox was the lead). It was actually quite good; the effects were state-of- 1996-art, the Doctor was IMO (and many reviewers) quite excellent. It wasn't promoted well (here) & got preempted in some markets for sports. It did great in the UK, but Fox wouldn't serialize it based on the tepid US response. Still...it was Fox who showed the UK/Davies/et.al. that a new, quality DW would do well, and they took it from there & gave us the current Whoniverse (trademark pending)
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This could be more of a fuck-up than the last episode of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. More nonsensical than the decision to shit-can FREAKYLINKS. More vapid visuals in search of a decent story than BIRDS OF PREY (though in its defence, BIRDS OF PREY was awesome. And Ashley Scott is teh hotness as the Huntress). And even more nonsense in a general sense. RTD can ram the gay agenda into this all he wants, because having Jack cornholing Ianto will be the least of this show's problems. You're giving RTD millions of dollars to write a US SF TV series after the spectacular clusterfuck that was THE END OF TIME?
This could be the greatest car-crash TV since Channel 4 killed Gary Glitter in a futuristic Daily Mail one-off drama. It will be UNMISSABLE! -
Leave BLAKES 7 alone! You'll never make an episode as truly great as "BLAKE" again, so don't try!
We'll end up with Paterson Joseph as Blake and a gay Vila, not to mention a Servalan that DOESN'T dress up all S&M... **shudder** -
How does it feel to actually be evil? Really? I'm serious. Awful, awful people.
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The article did not say that Doctor Who will get an American makeover. What it said is that Tranter "might reboot" the series for an American audience. The writer is only guessing at what might happen.
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Wrongo buddy. Not one bit of hate for gays in my heart and mind. Criticism for RD shoveling gay innuendo into my Doctor Who episodes? You bet!
You're probably a real swell guy yourself...aside from blanketing everyone as evil and intolerant who doesn't love you and embrace gay references on what is still considered a kids show. -
You don't know what its like. You don't. You may think you do, but you don't.
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This is the same tired argument that gets started in every Doctor Who thread. While there are probably a few homophobes sprinkled in here, there are a lot of people who believe RTD was really forcing certain issues to make people uncomfortable.And I have seen enough interviews with RTD to believe that of him. He seems like exactly the type of person who at a party would come right up in your face out of nowhere and say "Yeah, I'm gay! What are you going to do about it?" That's what the majority of poeple are sensing in Doctor Who and Torchwood, I believe.But what do I know? I like pussy.
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No one hates on the gays..well except that IH8HARRY Tber. (he's looking for a banning indeed.)I think if a character is written well regardless of his sexual identity (i.e. lestat)it should'nt be a big deal but when agendas get pushed upon us mainstreamers or as you call us; breeders, then it serves someone's own agenda. can't look down on women..what they have down there is like gold in them hills!
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If you DO have a proper grievance against some homophobe who has done you serious harm in some way, take it up with the authorities. REAL hatred against someone for who or what they are should not be tolerated in a civilised society.
DoctorWho? and myself are NOT homophobes, as you almost certainly know. We hate the way RTD WRITES, NOT the fact that he's gay. It's his WRITING - the way he thinks entertainment is just another platform for him to preach to us. If I want to be preached at about gay rights, I'll go to a Peter Tatchell march, or watch a Panorama special on how awful it is to be a minority. But when I watch DOCTOR WHO, I want to be FUCKING ENTERTAINED - to be thrown into a story that moves at a fast pace, that enthrals and excites me, that is intelligent and unpredictable and frightening and wondrous and fun! You'll find people like myself were moaning about RTD's HETEROSEXUAL characters too - the way we all thought it was stupid that a 900-year old Time Lord from Gallifrey spent two fucking seasons moping over a chav from a Sarf Landaaaahn sink estate! It's a SCI-FI SHOW! If RTD doesn't want to write SF, he should fuck off and write some character drama, because DR WHO is meant to be SF!
RTD's reign on WHO has turned into one long sermon. His gay characters aren't realistic characters - they just pop up, indicate that they are gay, and disappear again with the revelation of their sexual orientation having NO EFFECT ON THE PLOT OR NARRATIVE WHATSOEVER. And if something does NOT affect the plot or narrative in some way, there's no reason for it to be there.
Let me ask YOU something: in TORCHWOOD, in the episode where Gwen walks in on Jack shagging Ianto over his desk, what relevance does Jack and Ianto shagging over the desk have to the plot or narrative at large? What does it do to propel the story forward, or to reveal something to us about the characters? We already knew they were both gay; we also know it has NOTHING to do with the episode. It's a cheap shot, a scene written specifically to elicit a knee-jerk negative response from the Daily-Mail reading homophobes of the UK, just so RTD can feel justified in his heterophobia.
You're a hatemonger, a hater of heterosexual people... and a hate-filled bigot is still a hate-filled bigot, no matter which side of the argument you're on. And considering my supposed homophobia, I'm sure you'll be surprised to know I really enjoyed BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. Cried at the end, bought the DVD and everything. I even bought the book. Isn't that a bit strange for a homophobe? Why DID I do that, then, in your twisted opinion?
Let go of your hatred. No matter what's happened in your life, blanket hatred of a particular group makes you no better than those who mock you for your sexuality. Two wrongs don't make a right. -
..and I'M gay!!! His sledgehammer style of putting forward gay issues has never worked-coming across as either crass (Ianto & Jack caught by Gwen in the office) or unbelievable (The two Harkness' having a ballroom snog) Its' quite obvious watching the new WHO that his own tastes are stamped all over it. He just GUSHED on the confidential how much he enjoyed working with that no-talent cow Tate and would work with her all the time if he could--hmmm, is that why Donna was in the final episode for NO FUCKING REASON? I'm sure Carey Mulligan would have been interested in the assistant part-but instead we get two-dimensional Agyma and then Tate. All his dumb pop-culture references are fementing even as I type this. Don''t start about his 'throw everything inc. the kitchen sink' finales that have failed miserably. Counting the seconds until the Smith/Moffatt team take over.....
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Look, Spuds and Who? think they aren’t homophobic. And maybe they aren’t. Comparative to some of the things written on this board today they aren’t. But if they’re not completely gay bashers they aren’t very empathetic either. And nowhere near as “enlightened” as they think they are. They and many others here used the term “agenda”. Again and again and again. Of course Russell Davies has an agenda. He has to. He wants to create a TV show that fully integrates gay people and gay sex into a traditional narrative. Because its not the norm, because its politicized, it would have to come under the term “agenda”. It’s a circle argument. By “agenda” you mean you don’t want is to see men kissing and having sex in the middle of your sci fi. It makes you uncomfortable. There was plenty of hot straight sex on the show between Owen and Gwen. There were no complaints about that. Do you know how truly wonderful it was for me to see people like me as heroes in the traditional hetero-centric world of science fiction television. Not just lip serviced paid, to actually see Jack and Ianto have a fully realized relationship? Kissing and sex included. I’m sorry it messed up the storyline for you. But for us, myself and a huge number of gays who watch and love the genre, it was absolutely magnificent. We all like to see ourselves completely realized in the fantasies we watch. On Torchwood we gays can. With an actual lead character. The hero. You don’t know what that means.
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I'm not sure you're gay. If you are I feel sorry for you. I'm sure you think calling someone a "flouncy big poof" is akin to a black person calling another "niggah". No, its actually a sign of self-hate. Or, as I mentioned, you're not really gay. Now that I think of it, no self respecting gay person would ever call the fabulous Catherine Tate a "no talent cow". So be gone. Before someone drops a house on you.
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Jan 20, 2010 4:16:57 PM CST
Spud McSpud.....................................................
by axcel1
Can I please have Doctor Who & Torchwood in the US? As for the gayness, Fox is considered a major network here, so, believe me, they will tone it down. Only cable goes crazy, so to speak.
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I've seen enough Torchwood.
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So you're happy with gay men being represented as shallow, sex-obssessed, commitment-phobic, having no interest in any kind of mentally stimulating relationship at all, merely a string of emotionless sexual encounters?? That's how you want straight people to think of as a normal, everyday gay relationship?
Wow.
Because if I see two hetero people in a show behaving the way Jack and Ianto did, you'd have to assume they enjoy fucking each other but actually canot stand one another. There was no interaction whatsoever - not that there ever could be, because Gareth Whatever-Jones has only one expression in that entire series, and it's the one that looks like a man trying to pass the biggest log he's ever had - and if it's not Ianto stuttering and blah-blahing and generally being an even less charismatic (if that were possible) clone of Hugh Grant, it's Captain "I'll fuck ALL OF Y'ALL!!" Jack and his amazoing commitment phobia! Watch as Jack turns away every time Ianto looks at him! Marvel as Jack manages to actually transcend time and space in order to escape Ianto and that dreaded "commitment"!! And laugh as the perpetually scorned Ianto eventually gives his life for a man who patently, obviously, DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HIM!!
You want us to think all gay men are like THAT? THAT'S a normal gay relationship??
Fuck. Because theirs is one of the most dysfunctional relationships I've ever seen in an SF show... -
"He wants to create a TV show that fully integrates gay people and gay sex into a traditional narrative. Because its not the norm, because its politicized, it would have to come under the term “agenda”. It’s a circle argument. By “agenda” you mean you don’t want is to see men kissing and having sex in the middle of your sci fi. It makes you uncomfortable."
Right there is the problem. The first purpose of drama is to ENTERTAIN. Educating is a side effect, something that's nice, but not necessarily essential. We want to be ENTERTAINED.
To be entertained, a plot that makes sense is alays a great start. And of course, adherence to the given themes of your genre. The gay stuff RTD put into WHO was never anything to do with SF - it was all to do with social inclusion, the relevance of non-hetero relationships in contemporary society, and other such worthy themes that in a straightforward non-SF drama would most likely win you a BAFTA or two.
But this is SCI-FI. Relationships are NOT the most important thing in sci-fi.
So what is? The SF element. Themes that are fantastical, that are interesting narratively and that tie-in with an SF element in the script, be it spaceships, aliens, time travel, futuristic gadgets, alien cultures, alien planets, conspiracies... If I want to watch a drama where social themes are the most relevant part of the narrative, I can watch something like QUEER AS FOLK. But putting such issues so forward in an SF show makes as much sense as having an alien pop up in CORONATION STREET. I don't want contemporary social issues in my SF unless you want to give them SF trappings - the way DISTRICT 9 basically told us what the white South Africans did to the blacks in the 80s, but with aliens - it makes it somehow more relevant, more accesible, to we genre fans.
This is not the first time I've ever moaned about relationships in SF. Of COURSE characters have backstories in SF, and knowing them informs what we think of the characters. But the backstory should NOT be the main narrative, as then it's a drama with SF trappings, not an SF show with well-written characters in it. For instance, THE X-FILES really lost its way when they made it clear they didn't have a clue where the conspiracy mythology of the show was heading. To compound that error, they then contrived to get Scully and Mulder involved. BAD, BAD MOVE! The SF fans didn't give a fuck whether or not M&S got together - they just wanted a decent mythology backstory, not the tepid shite they were served. The kind of people who care whether or not M&S get together aren't SF fans - they're HEAT and US WEEKLY readers, casual viewers who only care about who's fucking who. And if you pander to that demographic most - as RTD did - you run the risk (as he did) of changing the show beyond all recognition. By the Tennant finale, WHO was basically a soap opera with occasional aliens in it. And THAT is why we're so pissed off.
As I said before, we also had a problem with the very HETEROSEXUAL relationship between the Doctor and Rose. Why would a 900-year old alien Time Lord, who in that amount of time should/would have fucked everything in the universe he wanted to fuck, suddenly act like a lovestruck emo twat over a Sarf Laaahdaaahn sink estate chav with manga facial features and no discernible intelligence whatsoever?? IT'S NOT SF, THAT'S SOAP OPERA!!
We don't hate you. We don't hate gays. We don't hate RTD because he's gay. We hate RTD because he's writing Public Service Announcements when he's meant to be writing kick-ass space opera kids SF stuff. And I'm very glad the fucker's gone. -
To maturely introduce us all to what contemporary gay leading characters could and should be like in TORCHWOOD. You could have had a character who is genuinely a hero to the gay community - someone to look up to, someone fantastic, whose sexuality is as much a part of who he is as what he does for a living.
After three seasons of TORCHWOOD, you'd have to conclude, if TW was the only example of gay men you'd ever seen or heard of, that all gay men are either chronically incapable of uttering a straightforward sentence when the object of their affection is around (stand up, Ianto) or a flamboyant twat whose idea of a committed relationship is to remember his shagpiece's name the next day (that's you, Captain Jack). Neither of them is particularly likeable or well written; both have no other discernible character traits bar their sexuality. Especially Ianto.
RTD can't write gay characters to save his life in an SF series. And I'm as confused about that as you are, Alienist. -
Owen was so fuck-ugly, I had to turn away at his attempts to copulate with ANYTHING in TORCHWOOD. And as for that episode where he falls for the WW2 female pilot... Still haven't stopped laughing at that. Owen was a fucking pathetic character, and I'm glad he's out. What a waste of space.
Gwen and Rhys were the only well-written, well realised, fully three-dimensional characters in TORCHWOOD - and then only by the end of CHILDREN OF EARTH. and if it takes you three seasons to properly write a character in that kind of realistic sense - hang up the keyboard, 'cos it's OVER.
Or fuck off to the US, beg Fox for a contract and reboot all your tiresome shite over there... -
spud will never understand what it means to finally, finally, finally see yourself in mainstream "sciffy" after all these many years. The more he goes on about this one particular (& relatively benign) aspect of the RTD-era Who-verse, the more one wonders exactly what it is he's so desperately afraid of.
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I have never seen myself represented in SF either - a working-class kid who went to private school after winning a council scholarship and had a shit time! If you happen to come across an SF movie or series with that person as a hero, be sure and let me know :D
(This is because most working class people are represented by middle class people in SF, such as Simon Pegg playing someone relatively broke-ass in SPACED when in fact he has a cultured, almost Received Pronunciation accent. The only series that accurately represents the working class in the UK these days is SHAMELESS, and I'm NOTHING like those scum fuckers.) -
Are you and Alienist actually happy with the way RTD portrays gay men in TORCHWOOD? Or is this a kind of "it's shit, but at least it's a start" stance you're taking?
There's nothing likeable about Ianto (who is an expressionless plank of wood rather than a character), or Jack (who is a narcissistic commitment-phobic asshole). There's no relationship to speak of - a few furtive glances, some half-hearted fuck scenes (you can't really call them "love" scenes, as that would require acting out an emotion that is way beyond the talents of these asinine "actors") and lots of Jack running away and Ianto frowning, which Ianto did all the time anyway. I'm still trying to figure out where all the relationship stuff you guys are talking about were. All I saw were some Daily Mail middle England-baiting gay sex scenes that hardly qualify as a giant stride forward for the acceptance of gay relationships in a prime-time mainstream SF programme. Annoying Daily Mail readers is about as difficult as annoying an AICN TBer.
So - are you REALLY happy with the representation of the gay community as personified by Ianto and Jack? Seriously? -
Can we at least agree that BUFFY's Willow and Tara relationship was way better written, acted and produced than anything RTD has done in WHO/TW? It'd be nice to reach some kind of truce with you guys before I have to go to bed... ;D
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Americans only like Doctor Who because it's quaint and different. Brits only like Doctor Who because they'll mindlessly defend anything British. Take away the Britishness and everybody will see the show for what it really is: overacting morons running through steam tunnels shouting nonsense at each other.
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Grunty, Alienist - Hating RTD's writing isn't the same as hating his being gay. I don't hate gays, and I sure as hell DON'T hate you guys. I hate Rusty's way of writing - that's all. If you're happy with TORCHWOOD, great - but I'd personally like to see a more well-rounded, properly written gay leading character in an SF series with less useless traits than Jack and Ianto. Sincerely. I'd like you guys to have better people in SF to look up to than those two useless twat characters.
And if anyone gives you shit for being gay, give them what for! But don't become haters just because you encounter hate. There's too much of that around already, and it brings only negativity. Be yourselves, be proud, and demand BETTER! I wish you all good things.
Cheers, all. Spud OUT. -
it was compromised at any level. And by that I mean de-gayed. But if they do this, I really hope they stick to the current time-line and continue instead of "re-imagining". I think re-imagining could be the worst thing to come out of people's mouths in the last 100 years. And I've seen German porn.. so..
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For the record, I liked Torchwood -- I thought it was an okay show (season 1 being far better than season 2). But that said, WHAT was so special about it? I mean, big deal, it's a show about a group of people going around and investigating strange or spooky or sci-fi stuff.In other words, flipping things BACK across the Atlantic, it was the British version of the X-FILE or now FRINGE.Frankly, I don't GET why you'd make an American version. I can understand buying the rights and importing (for remake purposes) something with LOTS of cache and name recognition or good will behind it, but I highly doubt Torchwood fits those criteria.Bottom line to me: once again, on behalf of many creative people who live and work out here in Los Angeles, I'd just like to say: FUCK YOU, HOLLYWOOD. If you want to do another X-files or Fringe-like show, I'm SURE you have TONS of great unproduced scripts on the shelves, or people coming in each day with really fun, solid ideas. But rather taking a chance on something new and fresh... trying to create new and original properties, that long term COULD become incredibly valuable franchises for you, instead you'd rather pimp something old and existing because the suits in Hollywood are too fucking stupid and lazy to actually pursue REAL creativity.So for that reason, even as a person who watched Torchwood when it was on, again: FUCK YOU, HOLLYWOOD. I'll make it a point to never watch this new shit version.
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Firstly I agree with what someone else said above , gay people have hetro shit shoveled into their faces every day , and I have no problem with a sexualized queer vibe for a sci-fi show.... So Fuck the sad ,sexless homophobes that pollute this website(and the internet).... Saying that I think an American Torchwood made by RTD is a hideous idea . The guy is a cheesy and shit writer , and ruined any possible potential the U.K Torchwood had to be a cool show.
Anyone who wants to know what was wrong with it should look for the hilarious piss take "Dead Ringers" did of Torchwood on YouTube , and , for the record I CAN'T STAND John Bowman , just give him some Polish for his teeth , a top hat and cain , and let him tap dance off the nearest cliff.... -
My bad .....(He's still crap lol)
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was the angry virgin talkback.
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are just jealous of all the sex gay/bi people get lol seriously isn't Captain Jack bi, not gay, i remember him and Gwen having some tension...anyway doesn't matter, Captain Jack rocks, and please don't let him anywhere near Fox, Bill O'Reilly won't be able to resist his charm.
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spinoffs considered...
Dr What
Dr Where
Dr Why
Dr When
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Captain Jack is technically omnisexual. In UTOPIA, he made it clear he'd do Chan Tho. Which is either perverted or a great idea, depending on whether or not you find blue insectile women attractive :D
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I should have I am sorry.
The thing that makes me sad is that Torchwood could have been brilliant if it had been made darker and to be honest with less sexuality in it. Fringe and it's like are really good shows and you don't have the hetro nature of the main characters shoved in your face every five minutes. There is no need and it distracts from the show. I don't have a problem with gay or lesbian people, what I do have a problem with is that it is forced down our throats all the time. It's a bit like with all other minorities. The powers that be are tripping over themselves to show they are all for them and are pretty much alienating them because people are getting fed up with it!!! We just want to be entertained and that doesn't help. He even started to turn Doctor Who into a gay flagship. Why??????? RTD likes dick, we get it already! -
not the variety of sexual orientations.
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All of the discussion of RTD's writing of Torchwood rather ignores the fact that the only Torchwood that he wrote in the first two series was the pilot and the pre-credits sequence of series 2 episode 1. Most of the stuff that Spud and others are criticising was written by Chris Chibnall, who wrote all the truly fucking dreadful Torchwood episodes and the extremely mediocre and chock full of piss poor physics Doctor Who episode 42. He's also writing 2 episodes of the new series of Doctor Who.
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When either country does this. If done correctly it might be like Law & Order:UK. If done wrong, it'll be like Life on Mars. But definitely agree Dr Who is grounded in Britishness, can't imagine a US Version of the Tardis. It's all wrong. Next we might have the Britishised Star Trek, who knows it might happen.
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I know plenty of gay men (real characters too ala Jack from Will and Grace)...who will rip into people like that "fat cow" comment the poster used. Especially physical appearances.
What makes you think being gay elevates someone above such petty attacks? -
shit writer regardless. The End of Time was just such a mess while the last 15 mins was him basicaly saying good bye to himself.
Besides he tried to change the whole regeneration canon just for that pathetic "I dont want to go" line which even David Tennant thought was pretty shit. -
can't believe they rebooted fringe already.......
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your throats" just by BEING gay and saying so or expressing it in an open, even innocent manner (a non-passionate kiss, holding hands, etc),Atheists are "evangelical" for mentioning their atheism IN context and people in India want to "take your jobs" rather than.. oh.. I dunno.. eat this week. Anything that makes sense or rings of humanitarianism is "Liberal" and all music you don't like is "emo". We get it, many of you are idiots. Sleep well.
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Someone who may want to watch a family/kids show (which Dr Who is basically) and not have to explain gay overtones to their kids is a homophobe. Anyone who disagrees with the current U.S president has racist tendencies (they just don't know it). Anyone who wants to pay less taxes hates the poor and doesn't want to do their "fair share". Anything that "makes sense" and allows allows people to retain personal liberty as opposed to blindly trusting govt hacks to micro manage all of life's issues is called "conservative". We get it too... Sleep well knowing you're open to differing viewpoints. As long as they match yours identically.
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The Doc from "Back to the Future" with his Delorium "TARDIS"?
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How about "Stargate UK"?
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Ya expressed your (valid) points without coming off defensive or beligerent.if Alienist has a problem, then that's on him (too thin skinned i suppose.)
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...played by Neil Patrick Harris...
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make it a musical. Have Jack run around in a thong.Have Tom Cruise stop bi(sexual). Cher can write the theme song. It will be like a big black hole(no pun inteded all though now that I think of it that we be sweet episode) of gayness.
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This argument NEVER gets resolved on AICN - the RTD haters explain that they hate his writing, and his preachy style of ramming the gay stuff into an episode with no coherence or logic whatsoever is just one of hundreds of examples of bad writing (the hetero stuff with Doc and Rose being another, his Deux Ex Machinas etc etc) that piss us off. Then the RTD supporters steam in and call us homophobes.
What REALLY pisses me off is that I KNOW there's a lot of hatred out there, a lot of shit being thrown at the non-hetero community, and I genuinely get angry hearing about it. If Gotilk or Alienist were in my neck of the woods taking shit, I'd be the first guy to wade in against the ones having a go. There's nothing unnatural or strange about being LGBT, and those religious nuts who believe it's against God's nature should take a second to remember their God CREATED LGBT people as well as heteros, so I call bullshit on THAT hate. I fucking hate bigotry. Hate it.
So you get these wiseass fuckers turn up, call me a homophobe, give me shit over the RTD hate - it's NOT the fact he's gay thaqt I hate! It's not the ideas of lead gay characters that I hate! It's the militant way RTD throws them in the mix. When the guy who did more for putting gay media into the mainstream than any other UK writer suddenly starts writing well-rounded straight characters but two-dimensional representational stereotypes for gay characters, you HAVE to call him on it. He's doing the gay community a disservice!! And as for TORCHWOOD... We were promsed an adult WHO spin-off. By adult, I naively thought it'd be a programme with grown-up THEMES; more gore, more moral ambiguity, more adult SF in the vein of CHILDREN OF EARTH (which was successful precisely because there was LESS gay stuff, not more, and that the SF plot was central to the narrative - notably the scenes with Ianto coming out to his family, though they may be realistic and representative of the experience of many gay people, were there purely to reinforce the stereotype that MOST non-LGBT will be hostile to someone they know coming out. It was stereotypical, and a sweeping generalisation of what he believes the majority of people thinks of gay people, about which he is massively wrong). But no, it's SKINS with aliens in it. The idea of an adult show as written by sniggering-14-year olds, while they smoke behind the bike sheds and give each other hand jobs. Fucking pathetic.
Still, I can take comfort in the fact that most people are now starting to see RTD as the hack that he is, the thieving plagiarist with no idea of what he's doing when writing SF (if you don't believe me, watch TORCHWOOD: CHILDREN OF EARTH then watch THE QUATERMASS CONCLUSION, particularly the ending - it's almost IDENTICAL thematically), and that he's very unpleasant to non-LGBT types to boot, and that in the long run, despite his elevated media profile and his status within the industry, he's doing more harm for the gay community than good.
Sorry. That was a long "thanks for the support" post at you. But this stuff REALLY pisses me off...
And as for Alienist, I just hope whatever has upset him this much gets dealt with. He sounds like he's had some seriously bad experiences with being out, and that's not right. But acceptance has to go BOTH ways... -
I'm AMAZED RTD didn't get that far. He's welcome to go for it in the US TW, though. I can't WAIT for this series! Hope it runs five seasons minimum. Could be the funniest TV series in decades...
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STARGET UK I'd LOVE to see. A UK SANCTUARY, too, if that's possible... ;D
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MGM didn't try to spinoff Stargate to the UK, like Dick Wolf did with "Law & Order", I know the BBC would have made it, well, Awesome!
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Jan 21, 2010 7:44:56 PM CST
But, seriously..................................................
by axcel1
I still want FOX to go forward with Torchwood & Doctor Who in the US. As long as they don't put it on fridays, they might have a chance.
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Torchwood & Doctor Who in the US on FOX would be Awesome! Alright!!!!!!
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Jan 22, 2010 10:24:46 AM CST
Well, unless there is another Who post..........................
by axcel1
I'll see everyone in April for the perfect Who!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES!!!!!!! The lovefest starts in 2 1/2 months!!!!!!!!!!
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