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JOHN CARTER OF MARS officially underway!

Hey folks, Harry here - and I have to say, I'm incredibly happy to say, "JOHN CARTER OF MARS is finally underway!" I've been dying to see Edgar Rice Burroughs' classic PRINCESS OF MARS adapted to the screen, and although I spent a lengthy part of my life working to try to inch it closer to the screen, it has been an incredibly difficult property to get to screen. Literally, since the 30s, several of the most amazing filmmakers in the world were attempting it, unofficially adapting pieces of it, and ultimately it remains to be seen. When the dim bulb that blinked on JOHN CARTER at Paramount blinked... and Disney/Pixar jumped in and swooped up the rights, I was relieved. Then, after watching AVATAR, I was again relieved, because with AVATAR's success, I know that it will raise Andrew's game - and that Disney will be incredibly confident in the sort of tale that John Carter is. And on their side, the creature designs, culture and mythology of Barsoom, to me, is something folks are going to clamor over. Here are the press releases that Disney sent out today regarding the project, enjoy:

WALT DISNEY PICTURES’ “JOHN CARTER OF MARS” BEGINS PRINCIPAL PHOTOGRAPHY IN LONDON BURBANK, Calif. (January 15, 2010) – Principal photography is underway in London for Walt Disney Pictures’ “JOHN CARTER OF MARS.” Academy Award®-winning filmmaker Andrew Stanton brings this captivating hero to the big screen in a stunning adventure epic set on the wounded planet of Mars, a world inhabited by warrior tribes and exotic desert beings. Based on the first of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ “Barsoom Series,” the film chronicles the journey of Civil-War veteran John Carter, who finds himself battling a new and mysterious war amidst a host of strange Martian inhabitants. Produced for Walt Disney Pictures by Jim Morris (“WALL•E,” “Ratatouille”) and Colin Wilson (“Avatar,” “War of the Worlds”), the live action/animation film marks Academy Award®-winning director/writer Andrew Stanton’s (“Finding Nemo,” “WALL•E”) first foray into live action. Stanton directed and co-wrote the screenplay for Disney•Pixar’s “WALL•E,” which earned the Academy Award and Golden Globe® for Best Animated Feature (2008); Stanton was nominated for an Oscar® for the screenplay. He made his directorial debut with Disney•Pixar’s “Finding Nemo,” garnering an Academy Award-nomination for Best Original Screenplay and winning the Oscar for Best Animated Feature (2003). He has worked as a screenwriter and/or executive producer on Disney•Pixar’s “Toy Story,” “A Bug’s Life” (which he also co-directed), “Toy Story 2,” “Monsters, Inc.,” “Ratatouille” and “Up.” "I have been waiting my whole life to see the characters and worlds of 'John Carter of Mars' realized on the big screen,” says Stanton. “It is just a wonderful bonus that I have anything to do with it." The stellar ensemble cast is led by Taylor Kitsch (NBC’S “Friday Night Lights”, “X-Men Origins: Wolverine”) in the title role, Lynn Collins (“50 First Dates,” “X-Men Origins: Wolverine”) as the warrior princess Dejah Thoris and Oscar® nominee Willem Dafoe (“Spider-Man 3,” “Shadow of a Vampire”) as Martian inhabitant Tars Tarkas. The cast also includes Thomas Haden Church (“Sideways,” Spider-Man 3), Polly Walker (upcoming “Clash of the Titans,” “Patriot Games”), Samantha Morton (“Elizabeth: The Golden Age,” “In America”), Mark Strong (“Sherlock Holmes,” “Body of Lies”), Ciaran Hinds (“Munich,” “There Will Be Blood”), British actor Dominic West (“300,” “Chicago”), James Purefoy (“Vanity Fair,” “Resident Evil”) and Bryan Cranston (“Breaking Bad”). Daryl Sabara (“Disney’s A Christmas Carol,” “Spy Kids”) takes the role of John Carter’s teenaged nephew, Edgar Rice Burroughs. The creative team includes Oscar®-nominated production designer Nathan Crowley (“Public Enemies,” “The Dark Knight,” “Batman Begins”), costume designer Mayes Rubeo (“Avatar,” “Apocalypto”), cinematographer Daniel Mindel (“Star Trek,” “Mission Impossible III,” “Spygame”) and video effects supervisor Peter Chiang (“The Reader,” “The Bourne Ultimatum”). OHN CARTER OF MARS WALT DISNEY PICTURES Genre: Adventure/Sci-Fi Rating: TBD Release Date: TBD Cast: Taylor Kitsch, Lynn Collins, Samantha Morton, Mark Strong, Ciaran Hinds, Dominic West, James Purefoy, Daryl Sabara, Polly Walker, Bryan Cranston, with Thomas Hayden Church and Willem Dafoe Director: Andrew Stanton Producers: Jim Morris and Colin Wilson Screenplay by: Andrew Stanton & Mark Andrews (credit not final) Based on the story by: Edgar Rice Burroughs From Academy Award®-winning filmmaker Andrew Stanton (“Finding Nemo,” “WALL-E”), JOHN CARTER OF MARS brings this captivating hero to the big screen in a stunning adventure epic set on the wounded planet of Mars, a world inhabited by warrior tribes and exotic desert beings. Based on the first of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ “Barsoom Series,” the film chronicles the journey of Civil-War veteran John Carter (TAYLOR KITSCH), who finds himself battling a new and mysterious war amidst a host of strange Martian inhabitants, including Tars Tarkas (WILLEM DAFOE) and Dejah Thoris (LYNN COLLINS). Notes: · Edgar Rice Burroughs was born in Chicago and is best known for writing and creating Tarzan – still one of the most successful and iconic fictional creations of all time. JOHN CARTER OF MARS is based on Burroughs’ first novel, “A Princess of Mars.” · Academy Award®-winning director/writer Andrew Stanton directed and co-wrote the screenplay for “WALL•E,” which earned the Academy Award® and Golden Globe Award® for Best Animated Feature of 2008. He was Oscar® nominated for the screenplay. He made his directorial debut with “Finding Nemo,” garnering an Academy Award® nomination for Best Original Screenplay and winning the Oscar® for Best Animated Feature Film of 2003. He was one of the four screenwriters to receive an Oscar® nomination in 1996 for his contribution to “Toy Story,” and went on to receive credit as a screenwriter on subsequent Pixar films “A Bug’s Life,” “Toy Story 2,” “Monsters, Inc.,” “Finding Nemo” and “WALL•E.” He served as co-director on “A Bug’s Life,” and was the executive producer of “Monsters, Inc.,” the 2006 Academy Award-winning “Ratatouille” and the 2009 smash hit “Up.” Set in the wounded planet of Mars, JOHN CARTER OF MARS chronicles the journey of Civil-War veteran John Carter (TAYLOR KITSCH), who finds himself battling a new and mysterious war amidst a host of strange Martian inhabitants, including Tars Tarkas (WILLEM DAFOE) and Dejah Thoris (LYNN COLLINS).
Readers Talkback
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  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:10 a.m. CST


    by hrv1004

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:13 a.m. CST

    Damn You Michael Bay


    Damn You Michael Bay

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:19 a.m. CST

    Quick, someone call the impossible police

    by JT Kirk

    Because Harry Knowles has violated in the most egregious manner possible. <p>(It was either that or ask how the young doctor from E.R. made it to the red planet.)

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:25 a.m. CST

    Go See Alice in Wonderland!

    by grievenom

    Just about a month away.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:26 a.m. CST

    Jar Jarkas Jardak of Jhark

    by NippleEffect

    you know its going to be that way

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:41 a.m. CST

    Stanton has a load of impressive work

    by Star Hump

    under his belt. The fact that he's such a talented writer really lends confidence that this is going to be an excellent adaptation.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Is the phrase "about damn time" even scratch the surface?

    by Heckles

    I doubt it. Man, I know what will screen at BNAT months before it's released.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:44 a.m. CST


    by Jaka also responsible for two of my all-time favorite movies. So I have much faith in this. Be interesting to see how far Pixar pushes it, though. It would be nice to see how incredible they could be with a more adult tone. They've certainly proven their worth in the all ages category.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:48 a.m. CST


    by Bootskin

    ...this would be great if they hadn't cast that fucking Gambit kid as John Carpenter....Seriously??? Goddamn...I figured they'd at least try somebody who at least looked like a VETERAN of war...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:49 a.m. CST

    And what the fuck??

    by Bootskin

    "Daryl Sabara (“Disney’s A Christmas Carol,” “Spy Kids”) takes the role of John Carter’s teenaged nephew, Edgar Rice Burroughs." Seriously?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:54 a.m. CST

    Just please no Will Smith and I'll be happy.

    by Orionsangels

    I'm tired of him stealing white owned roles.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3 a.m. CST

    avatar rules!

    by nightmute

    Carter will be a pale shadow of Avatar. Yes, I know Carter is an old story, and that it influenced Cameron, but remember what happened with Starship Troopers? Cameron borrowed from that book, and scored massive with Aliens. Troopers was not nearly so successful, and even Cameron said, "I already made that movie," when Troopers was announced. Well, Camero has already made John Carter, with Avatar. Hard to see mainstream audiences thinking any different. Result--Audiences, sated on Avatar through Blue Ray repeat views, won't see the need to shell out for Carter. Besides, it's bloody pathetic the way this studio is clearly jumping on Cameron's coat-tails. Hollywood did the same when Titanic came out. Remember all the disaster movies? And Michael Bay shoe-horning a love story into Armageddon and Pearl Harbour? The same shit is happening again. By the time Carter comes out Cameron will be working on something new, and breaking new ground again, leaving his imitators for dead. The reason Cam is so good is because he follows his own vision. He has never jumped on anybody's bandwagon. He creates his own. Hell, he gave up the Terminator series, even though he could have done anything he wanted with it, because he didn't see the point of doing it again. That's ballsy, trusting his instincts that audiences want something new. There may be haters here, but Cameron's deserved success cannot be denied.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:05 a.m. CST

    there wont be any boobs though...

    by The_Crimson_King

    that's a shame

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:17 a.m. CST

    For realsy reals?

    by AmericanWerewolf

    Holy shit. I've followed stories of this project over the years with some interest. I'm surprised that it's finally happening. This was a fun series of books, and I would love to see it become an epic movie. After all that's occured in scifi over the last few decades, it'll be interesting to see how this plays to the jaded masses.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:23 a.m. CST

    Is this an ER spin-off starring Noah Wyle?

    by Wookie_Weed


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:26 a.m. CST

    "British actor" Dominic West?

    by MaxCalifornia.

    Kind of an odd thing to say, especially with all the other Brits in the cast.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:32 a.m. CST

    I meant 'does the phrase'... dammit. I blame beer.

    by Heckles

    Just read on Wiki that a shitty John Carter "mockbuster" hit the shelves starring Antonio Sabato Jr. and Traci Lords.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:35 a.m. CST

    "Video effects supervisor"?

    by ed_crane

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:35 a.m. CST

    Willem Dafoe of "Spider-man 3" fame, LOL

    by BenBraddock

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:39 a.m. CST

    Daryl Sabara.

    by CoursinLarry

    Just watched World's Greatest Dad today and loved it. Glad to see that guy getting more work.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:47 a.m. CST

    I don't know the books at all, but I'm very interested in this.

    by Mr Nicholas

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:50 a.m. CST

    sorry if I'm an idiot, but...

    by BadMrWonka

    does this mean this is going to be completely animated a la Wall-E? or only, you know, "kinda animated", like Avatar?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:51 a.m. CST


    by Toonol

    The young Edgar Rice Burroughs was a character that briefly appeared in the book. Heck, in some ERB books (most all 70+ books are in the same universe), Burroughs himself actually plays a significant part in the plot.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:51 a.m. CST


    by sanzaru

    Chills & Thrills!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:53 a.m. CST


    by Toonol

    I watched that the day it came out, my fourteen year old son along with me. He asked about Traci Lords... "doesn't she look a little OLD for Dejah Thoris?"<p> Lord, that was a bad movie. The guy playing John Carter wasn't too bad, actually, though.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:53 a.m. CST

    Nightmute you fucking douche!

    by Player01

    I'm a big Cameron fan, but that was this biggest load of shit I've read in these talkbacks in a while. "Yes, I know Carter is an old story, and that it influenced Cameron, but remember what happened with Starship Troopers? Cameron borrowed from that book, and scored massive with Aliens." HAVE YOU FUCKING READ STARSHIP TROOPERS? Nope, didn't think so. What a load of shit. STARSHIP TROOPERS has not a fucking thing to do with Aliens. Not a fucking thing. Oh, except the military both kill 'bugs'. Fuckwad.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:06 a.m. CST

    That supporting cast is amazing

    by Ash Talon

    The cast, other than the 2 leads, is amazing. It reads like a Rome reunion. Add in Sandman, Samantha Morton, Defoe, and Jigsaw? I'm sol on everyone but the leads. How weird.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:07 a.m. CST

    Excellent! Can CARSON OF VENUS

    by Master Bruce

    be far behind?!!!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:28 a.m. CST


    by drturing

    If only Bunk could be in this. Guess there aren't any black aliens on Mars.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:28 a.m. CST

    Uh seriously no non white actors?

    by drturing

    I mean dude, it's Mars. Stretch a little.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Taylor Kitsch???????

    by MacReady452

    How does this dude get work?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:38 a.m. CST

    black actors

    by Toonol

    The second and third books are full of them. The "Black Pirates" play a major roll in overturning the evil "white" martians. There just aren't any that show up yet in the first book. The first book just has Red and Green martians... plus John Carter of Earth.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:50 a.m. CST

    So this will be Shaky Cam?

    by zillabeast

    Judging from the Cinematographer's past credits this will be.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:54 a.m. CST


    by Dreadlock Holmes

    Seriously WTF? I think the site you're looking for is StormFront.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:56 a.m. CST

    Taylor K. = HUGE MISTAKE

    by BirdMcMonster

    You're alienating a big fanbase. Way too young, way too pretty, should have made Purefoy JC.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:59 a.m. CST

    JC/TK... was it the accent and the abs?

    by BirdMcMonster

    Mr. Stanton, you should have known better. The guy looks 19...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5 a.m. CST


    by BirdMcMonster

    not taylor "hearthrob" kitch. You lost a believer.


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:01 a.m. CST


    by BirdMcMonster

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:04 a.m. CST

    1st line, VO: I am a teen queen hearth-throb

    by BirdMcMonster

    ... who has more in common with Taylor Lautner John Carter.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:07 a.m. CST

    ...than John Carter

    by BirdMcMonster

    Seriously, did the studio put you up to this?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:08 a.m. CST


    by BirdMcMonster


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:09 a.m. CST

    Seriously, is there a petition I can sign?

    by BirdMcMonster

    ... to make Purefoy JC instead of Kantos Kan?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:11 a.m. CST


    by BirdMcMonster


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:13 a.m. CST

    The cinematographer of Star Trek

    by kwisatzhaderach


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:21 a.m. CST

    So it's another "Ferngully" forumla??

    by Mike_D

    this is gonna be over-done in a few year span.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:21 a.m. CST

    I was hoping that after Avatar...

    by Toonol

    ...good, clean, smooth camerawork would come back into fashion for action movies.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:35 a.m. CST


    by quantize

    2nd in the conga line of Star Trek dummy suckers with Asshole Lives.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:40 a.m. CST

    I actually got to ask one of the people who cast Kitsch why...

    by IndustryKiller!

    they had gone in that direction. (and no I promise this is not some Jett93 thing where Im making up random Hollywood bullshit as some kind of performance art prank, this actually did happen, you tend to run into people randomly in LA) This person took a long pause, smiled dryly, and then very coyly explained that Stanton wanted someone who was not a household name, would come cheap, and also didn't mind more or less dedicating themselves for years to this franchise and not mind possibly being typed as John Carter. They seemed to be inferring with their tone that maybe Kitsch wasn't the first choice and that, in the end, it had very little to do with actual talent. A great audition or connection with the character was never even mentioned. All I could think was how much that sounded like it sucks.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:51 a.m. CST

    The cinematographer of Star Trek

    by oborostyle

    is great. i like his use of color/framing/movements a lot. the same goes for his work on mi3. i would go so far and say he is one of the few cinematographers you can regognize by its style. in a good way. like a doyle or pfister.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:07 a.m. CST


    by ColonelFatheart

    If they cast black actors as Martians they'll be accused of racism by Concerned White People.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Edgar Rice Burroughs was to be John Carter's nephew?

    by D.Vader

    IS that true? Is that how it is in the books? Does he write them as if they are memoirs from his uncle? Or is this something entirely new for the movie?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:30 a.m. CST

    well that's what's weird to me

    by drturing

    if all your martians are red and green, why do you have to cast only white people as them. it's weird.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:37 a.m. CST

    Hppe this breaks the "Mars movie" curse!

    by Nosferatu Jones

    So far, has there EVER been a decent movie set on Mars?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:44 a.m. CST

    Harry, How was that Princess of Mars?

    by NippleEffect

    That one with Antonio Sabato Jr and Traci Lords.<br> You were going to review the DVD.<br>

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:52 a.m. CST

    It won't work without Doug McClure.

    by MasterShake

    An Edgar Rice Burroughs movie without Doug McClure? Impossible! They're either going to have to digitally put him in the movie or dig him up and put his corpse in a scene.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:52 a.m. CST

    drturing: Yeah it would make sense

    by ColonelFatheart

    Oh well

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 6:58 a.m. CST

    Total Recall

    by HagCeli

    was a decent Mars movie

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7 a.m. CST

    "So far, has there EVER been a decent movie set on Mars?"

    by buggerbugger

    Capricorn One. <br> <br> What do you mean, they never went to Mars?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:04 a.m. CST

    Casting mistakes

    by silentjay

    The cast Heath Ledger as the Joker?! Those stupid mother ... Oh, wait.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:24 a.m. CST

    The book might be classic, but the title is dopey.

    by jsscript2007

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:38 a.m. CST

    Taylor Kitsch doesn't really look 19

    by Bruce of all Trades

    But he does look like a douche.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Kitsch was the best part of X-Men Origins: Wolverine

    by Bruce of all Trades


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Player 01 you are very rude

    by nightmute

    Well, thanks for the constructive comments there player. If you know your Cameron history, you will know that Cameron himself jokingly remarked that Starship Troopers was covering similar ground. And yeah, Troopers does feel overly familiar after Cameron did the grunts in space routine. Incidentally, the Troopers film is a satire, but the book is deadpan serious about its fascist ideas. Of course Aliens is different, but the military aspect is very similar. My point is, that Cameron tends to get there first. Carter is being fast-tracked because of the success of Avatar. Perhaps it will be a good film, but there are very few directors capable of delivering the goods in these kinds of areas. I don't have high expectations. I'm not quite sure why you launched such a vehement attack. I applaud you if films incite a passion within you, but why be so aggressive? I was merely voicing an opinion.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Paramount suits = TOOLS

    by BranMakMorn

    I wonder how these hacks feel after abandoning this film when Conran had a who's who of fantasy and SF artists working on his version? Now Pixar will make a well-deserved chunk of change with an AVATAR lite version. Paramount would have been on the thrid film of a Carter franchise by now. TOOLS.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:06 a.m. CST

    never thought i'd see this, good cast too

    by Waka_Flocka_Flame

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:12 a.m. CST

    And the children are..more stupid than usual...

    by MacFaux stupid lil wee really don't know of the great effort of HaL Know not to bring this to the screen...<br><br> Sweet Jeebus dumb lil kids want to bark bark on Harrry...Good Gods.<br><br> Dumb. Stupid. Moronity.<br><br> Bow at the Hot Wheel feet of Harry ya juvenile choads..<br><br> J Jacks laughs at your silly...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:25 a.m. CST

    But will it beat the Traci Lords version??

    by fbarich


  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:34 a.m. CST

    This better not steal from classic pulp storytelling...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...or we're going to know what happens the second our ass hits the seat.<P>Let me guess...he meets a local hot-chick, right? Saves the day? Maybe his Earth-learned Civil War skills come in handy at a critical moment?...<P>Cliché. Saw it coming a mile away. Who has two thumbs, one up his ass and one in his mouth, and knows everything about everything?...<P>This guy!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:35 a.m. CST

    Sabato version is hard to top, i watched it twice


    good luck disney

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Why should I care?

    by CaseyMcCall

    Not to be negative, just tell me why I should look forward to this?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:22 a.m. CST

    I WILL go see this please don't suck

    by johnnyangelheart

    That is all I ask.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Weren't you supposed to be producing this?

    by The Funketeer

    Or am I confusing it with something else?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:35 a.m. CST

    Awesome, can't wait!!

    by Drath

    I hope the Avatar vs John Carter debates aren't too insufferable though. Harry, you are potentially going to have a broken heart when you see what the beast you created has to say about the beast you love. Maybe you've already been there and done that by now, but seriously, be warned...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Harry, will you be producing any movies in the future?

    by PoutineForEveryone

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:12 a.m. CST

    I guess they forgot...

    by django_il_bastardo

    Carter is supposed to be perpetually 30 years old.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:52 a.m. CST

    Didn't this movie just come out?

    by hesiod2k

    But -- it was called Avatar.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:53 a.m. CST


    by follyway

    John Carter is the Original Gansta of man thrust into alien enviroment sci-fi archetype. In alot of ways he was also the forerunner to the modern superhero. He is a civil war verteran who is being chased through the old west and hides in a sacred Native American cave and as he drisfts off to sleep he is transported to Mars. Mars not only creates a whole new world to explore and adventure in, but due to it's low gravitational pull many giant terrifying creature have evolved there. But Carter isn't of that world and since he has dense muscled from Earth he appears to have powers. He can jump 20 feet into the air and pack a punch that would send an elephant reeling. Think of it as a reverse Superman with a sword.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:53 a.m. CST

    Actually Kitsch..

    by lprothro

    Is fine age-wise. Some civil war soldiers were in their teens--not to mention he's in his late twenties and John Carter, although ageless, specifically mentions that he's always looked to be a man of around thirty. Also to those who aren't familiar with the books, yes Burroughs does set himself up as the narrator and nephew of John Carter.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:54 a.m. CST

    "So far, has there EVER been a decent movie set on Mars?"

    by hesiod2k

    Mars Needs Women. Best Mars movie ever!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Sorry about the typos . . .

    by follyway

    Gotta love the edit function here at

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:58 a.m. CST


    by fiester

    The lead actor's name is Kitsch! Sums up the whole project pretty much. Go rent Krull, yo.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:58 a.m. CST

    oh and in other news

    by lprothro

    Jasom Mamoa from stargate and some wuss from the twilight movies are both being considered for the role of "Conan" according to dark horizons.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:59 a.m. CST

    Nothing wrong with Taylor Kitsch.

    by hesiod2k

    Jeez. I thought he did a decent job as Gambit in Wolverine. GIven better writing and directing, he will do well as John Carter.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11 a.m. CST

    AVATAR stole JOHN CARTERS thunder

    by WhoDis

    whether or not it ends up being a good movie, people will complain about "been there/done that" and it'll unfortunately tank.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:01 a.m. CST

    I don't agree. John Carter's different.

    by hesiod2k

    If done right. Now, Flash Gordon's thunder will probably be stolen by John Carter. But that's another talkback.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:04 a.m. CST

    The description in Princess of Mars calls for someone 30-35.

    by BirdMcMonster

    Kitsch looks 19.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:05 a.m. CST

    TK -He's in a high school show, for cripes sake.

    by BirdMcMonster

    JC shouldn't look old, he should look more seasoned than that pretty boy.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Jason Mamoa?!?

    by hesiod2k

    The guy can't fucking act.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Jason Mamoa=Frat Guy/Athlete Conan

    by hesiod2k

    Not a good idea. Kevin Sorbo is Daniel Day Lewis compared to this dude

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:25 a.m. CST

    I agree with the others...

    by SunTzu77

    Taylor Kitsch shouldn't be the lead. His version of Gambit was Bo Bice with a big baton. Who knows... maybe he will surprise us... but nothing he's done so far screams male lead.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:31 a.m. CST

    jsscript and flickapoo

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    ERB started writing A Princess of Mars in 1911. <p>The title was not at all dopey when written, more likely was considered fresh and original. <p>The idea that this can "rip off" classic pulp fiction is ignorant on the face of it. ERB was a pioneer of what we know today as classic pulp fiction. It's ridiculous to think that material from 1911/1912 could steal from what came after.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:32 a.m. CST

    A damn shame

    by Shub-Wankalot

    A day late and a dollar short...Avatar, been there, done that. A damn shame, this could've been the Burrough's treatment getting the respect that's overdue if developed and released earlier, but mainstream may see this flick as a carbon copy of Avatar dressed in a different outfit, even though Burrough did it first...the white dude rescuing the native aliens schtick and becoming savior and protector. Hurrah. Besides, will mainstream buy into martians, knowing what we currently know about mars via years of probe monitoring.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:38 a.m. CST

    I hope its good, but Stanton is NOT a good sign

    by 900LBGorilla

    A cartoon director who does animated kiddie flicks? They may be good (Albeit overrated -especially Wall-E which seem to get a lot of love off a political message) , but to transition from that to a major live-action film is an entirely different animal . <p> JCM has actually had a list of horridly wrong directors in this recent run- from the atrocious Rodriguez and Conan - to probably this one…. Looks like it almost had lightning in a bottle now that we know how Favreau can direct a live action film…what a shame he didn’t get this done. <p> I have also been waiting for this since I was like 13...fingers soundly crossed…

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:38 a.m. CST

    Lynn Collins/Kitsch

    by 900LBGorilla

    Are other concerns….the most beautiful woman on 2 worlds? Troy did better on that type of attempt with Diane Kruger <p> And Kitsch just looks lie a pretty boy pussy…which this character CERTAINLY AIN’T (Was Hayden Christensen booked or something)?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:38 a.m. CST

    May be it means nothing in the write up -Goodness I hope so

    by 900LBGorilla

    Because Dejah Isn’t a “Warrior Princess“ <p> If they go that rout we may have a hack job in the works…..lalallalalala XENA!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:39 a.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    This project CAN be de-railed by "up-dating" the story or bringing modern "sensibilities" to the characters. (Examples of this would be kids that talk like adults, or 1970's hair-do's on 1950's characters, etc.)<p>In short, they have a classic. They need to stick to the source material. <p>And for Barsoom's sake, don't dumb it down for kids the way Lucas ruined the Star Wars universe. (Even the action sequences are ruined by battle droids exclaiming "Uh-oh")

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:43 a.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    You make a great point. That's another "modern sensibility" that can ruin the source material. It should be treated as a period piece. But since Disney is handling it, you can probably expect a Pirates of the Carribean mentality about it, which means pandering to a PC audience.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:48 a.m. CST

    Drturing- actually there are black aliens on mars(obsidian color

    by 900LBGorilla

    But that’s a later book

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:54 a.m. CST

    John Carter vs Tarzan

    by SnootyBoots

    After decades of various people trying to put A Princess of Mars on the screen it's finally on the way in what appears to be a faithful adaptation (except for the title change, which I hate). Meanwhile, Tarzan is one of the most filmed fictional characters of all. Yet none of the movies are truly faithful to the books and most aren't even about the character as Burroughs wrote him. I'm glad John Carter is coming a theatre near me, but I long for Tarzan of the Apes done right.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:58 a.m. CST

    Lucas didn't ruin Star Wars.

    by hesiod2k

    Seriously. Have any of you actually gone back and WATCHED the first 3 movies again? They were all cheesy -- with idiotic dialogue and stupid elements in them. What made those movies great was the tactile nature of the special effects. Models and blue screens, and animatronics instead of antiseptic CGI. It also had much more engaging and interesting actors in the lead roles -- for the most part. But, for Gosh sakes, Muppet Yoda was ridiculous. Yoda's the only thing that got better with CGI.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:59 a.m. CST

    Jesus...Kitsch is 29, first of all...

    by GeneralJackCosmo

    <p>...and, yes, he looks young, which is good, because this is a franchise. If it takes two years to make one of these, and they are at least planning to make the first three books, that is six years minimum. And here's the thing: John Carter never gets any older. He does not age. That is a part of the story. So they need to cast a young guy with a babyface or else that aspect will not work.</p> <p>Second, yes, to many of the dumbfucks on here, and many dumbfucks around the world, this story will seem incredibly cliched. You know why? Because A PRINCESS OF MARS *started* the fucking cliches.</p>

  • Jan. 16, 2010, noon CST

    Stunt Vocalist

    by 900LBGorilla

    The Modern sensibilities are an even larger concern for Burroughs works - they all have stuff that is good when you delve into it, but on the surface a modern PC driven director will feel the need to unnecessarily “update”… thought they are keeping Carter a southern Civil war Veteran….that’s a bit of a surprise…though it could be turned into a stupid later moment of “enlightenment”- <p> Carter never seemed to comment on the civil war from a racial standpoint (He was a merely a captain level pseudo-grunt). From my memory we only see his comments on race when he runs into the black Martians…who he finds beautiful and seems to respect despite their being pretty bad (and before anyone gets into an uproar the White Martians are also bad and actually depraved …unlike the black Martians who are superior in many ways)….but that’s the next movie which I wont spoil.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST


    by GeneralJackCosmo

    I agree that it's high time someone made a faithful, live-action Tarzan film.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:01 p.m. CST

    Rights? What do you mean rights?

    by Mono

    Is this not in the public domain?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST

    The other thing about the Prequels...

    by hesiod2k that we all knew how it was going to end. The fact that Lucas had a vague outline of the prequels was not helped by the continuity errors that inevitably occurred. Like, having to CGI Hayden Christiansen into the end of Return of the Jedi. I bet if Lucas made a tri of SEQIELS, starring Harrison Ford, Mark Hammill, Carrie Fisher and some new characters -- they would actually be a lot more interesting.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST

    There was 1 semi-faithful Tarzan movie.

    by hesiod2k

    Legend of Greystoke, with Christopher Lambert, was the closest to the original source material.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:04 p.m. CST

    re: Confederate veteran

    by GeneralJackCosmo

    To those who've read the book, don't forget, JC is described as a soldier-of-fortune. His "family" also lived in Virginia on a plantation, so you could assume they were wealthy. I would guess JC was a Confederate for two reasons: 1. His family members were Confederates, and 2. That's were the money was. This irony is addressed in the book, when, at the end of the war, he finds himself in possession of a fortune in Confederate money, all of it completely worthless.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:06 p.m. CST


    by GeneralJackCosmo

    The first half of GREYSTO

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Yeah, the first half of Greystoke.

    by hesiod2k

    Was pretty faithful to the Novel. That's why I said "semi."

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:10 p.m. CST


    by GeneralJackCosmo

    <p>The first half of GREYSTOKE is pretty spot-on, although I was never wild about Lambert as Tarzan. In my opinion, the bast portrayal of the Tarzan character himself is actually in the Disney Tarzan, which I thought captured the adventure aspects nicely and also really played up the fact that he is an APE-man.</p> <p>Obviously, the ultimate Tarzan movie would be rated R, which is definitely too much to hope for, but a hard, dark PG-13 Tarzan with the right cast and the right director could be incredible. Whatever happened to the Tarzan project Guillermo Del Toro was involved with a few years ago?</p>

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:15 p.m. CST

    One thing GREYSTOKE got really right...

    by GeneralJackCosmo that the apes that raise Tarzan are not gorillas as portrayed in many of the films. The Mangani are a make-believe ape species.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:21 p.m. CST


    by SnootyBoots

    Greystoke is really only faithful to Burroughs in the jungle scenes with the apes. The rest is the screenwriters' invention. (Robert Towne worked on this for a long time and had it taken from him by the studio and rewritten by some one else) The silent films are closet to the books and a serial from 1935 called The New Adventures of Tarzan that Burroughs had a hand in producing portrays the character as Burroughs wrote him.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Too bad no one wants to do Conan the right way.

    by hesiod2k

    Conan would rule if he were portrayed as Robert E. Howard envisioned him. But, it would have to be rated R.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Lucas DID ruin Star Wars

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    The first movie was not without it's flaws, but it at least had the stormtroopers as ruthless order-following killers. It had Han shooting FIRST. The dialog was cheesey, but not horrible like in the prequels. Empire was even better for having someone else writing the dialog. With the warrior Wookie planet being kidded down to cutesy Ewoks, the destruction of the Star Wars universe that could be taken seriously (as in suspension of disbelief) was well under way.<p>The prequels had great design work, great score, great effects and more. But all were ruined, made virtually unwatchable by idiotic plot devices, (like the Force being a biological thing, not the mysterious wonder it used to be) dialog so bad that it even made great actors look awful, and a kidded down outlook that only elementary school age or under can enjoy. <p>Remember what Lucas did with the digitally re-mastered "Special Editions": removal of weapon fire impact on stormtroopers and others, Greedo shooting first at point blank and missing, the addition of so many extranious CGI elements that it distracted from the story... etc. ad infinitum. Remember Lucas' excuse for the new edition was to "clean up the effects" or somesuch. If you watch the SE, you can still see the matte shot borders around the MF as it leaves the Death Star. He cared less about updating the effects than he did rewriting history. (Even to the point that he took forever to finally release the original theatrical versions on DVD. It still pisses me off when I see any special about movie history that shows the changed Death Star explosion with the Praxis rip-off ring when talking about how the movie Star Wars changed movies in 1978. As if the SE version were the only version ever. Revisionist bullshit. Lucas did ruin Star Wars for nearly everyone over ten years old, and those who hold it as their religion. But... it is his to ruin.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:37 p.m. CST

    900lbGorilla and GJCosmo

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Great and thoughtful posts. Thanks.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:39 p.m. CST

    Before anyone posts..

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    about my SW post, please note that I realize the Ewoks came in the third film. Didn't think I needed to spoon-feed that.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:41 p.m. CST

    One correction

    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Should read: Lucas did ruin Star Wars for nearly everyone over ten years old, except for those who hold it as their religion. But... it is his to ruin.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:57 p.m. CST

    For those of you who aren't keeping up...

    by D.Vader

    John Carter of Mars has been in preproduction for YEARS. The fact that principal photography started this week does not have as much to do with Avatar's success as you'd like to think. Andrew Stanton's been working on this for awhil.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST

    same guy who did the previs 3d work for avatar

    by TheJudger

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 12:59 p.m. CST

    did the 3d previs for John Carter of Mars

    by TheJudger

    I knew this was all green a while back. This is news?????

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 1:06 p.m. CST

    Personally, I am looking forward to...

    by GeneralJackCosmo

    ...seeing some of the design work for this film. Namely, the green men.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 1:17 p.m. CST

    fucking childrens movie

    by tradeskilz

    Why are you all excited about this tripe shit? Disney and pixar with some teen lookalike lead? THE COCK FUCK?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 1:24 p.m. CST

    Taylor Kitsch has great potential imo

    by Meadowe

    A good looqin dude and has some talent, I was skeptiqal at first when he was cast as Gambit, but I felt he did great with what he was given. Hopefully this will raise his and Lynn Collins up and they can get better offers for better material.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    hey D. Vader got your . back I see!

    by Meadowe

    Happy twenty ten!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Mars Movies and Tarzan

    by Hipshot

    "Angry Red Planet" was great fun...when I was ten. And I predict that there will never again be a decent Tarzan movie. The entire concept is so gigantically Nature over Nurture, so incredibly racist that I'm not even sure how to approach it. I enjoyed the books when I was a kid, but there is just no way Burroughs would have gotten away with that today. One of my favorite lines: "White men have imagination. Black men have little. Animals have none." Good Lord. And you can't just strip out lines like that--the entire concept is corrupt, if thrilling. Tarzan's time has passed.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:09 p.m. CST

    Hipshot. Here's something that Burroughs got away with in 1913.

    by SnootyBoots

    In The Return of Tarzan, the second novel, Tarzan learns that he can't judge a person by the color of his skin and befriends, lives with, and becomes a member of an African tribe. Pretty progressive for the time. I think Burroughs was probably trying to make up for his depiction of the cannibal tribe in the first book.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:20 p.m. CST

    "When the dim bulb that blinked on JOHN CARTER at Paramount blin

    by SkidMarkedUndies

    Please proof-read your stories, Harry. It hurts to read them sometimes.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:24 p.m. CST


    by Hipshot

    He doesn't become a member. He becomes the LEADER. And if I recall correctly, he considers the natives "unusually attractive for blacks, their faces ALMOST Caucasoid in nature" Wow. How incredibly progressive. No, he was a man of his time, a good man probably, an incredibly creative man, certainly. But that entire concept is corrupt. I wouldn't even know how to do a re-tread.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST


    by Toonol

    The most evil and depraved characters in Tarzan were men from civilization, usually white. He often portrayed the African tribes as more noble and healthy than England or Europe.<p> And that line you gave earlier... "White men have imagination. Black men have little. Animals have none."... doesn't appear in Tarzan (the book). I just double-checked. It MAY appear in a later novel in the series. But it doesn't matter; there's just as many similar remarks in many other classic works of literature. It wasn't always the 21st century.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 2:51 p.m. CST

    ...Stunt Vocalist 709, take another look at my post...

    by FlickaPoo delivery might be flawed, but it's pretty sarcastic.<P>I was taking a shot at silly AVATAR criticism. I love old-timey pulp storytelling if done well.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:01 p.m. CST


    by Hipshot

    It absolutely appears in the books. I double-checked a couple of years back. And of COURSE those attitudes are typical of the time. I never singled Burroughs out as an anomaly. That's the tragedy--that those attitudes were so much a part of the foundation of society that it takes generations to root them out. And we're still working at it. "Tarzan," and dozens of other "white ruler of the jungle" stories, are artifacts of that time, and I'm just not sure how anyone can strip away the central ideology without crippling the entire concept. I honestly don't know. Trust me, I enjoyed the classic Tarzan films and books enormously (read them in original editions owned by my father), but I just don't think the ideas fit in this world any more. I'd be fascinated to see how they could, bu the basic idea: "an English Gentleman raised by apes is still an English Gentleman" is stunningly obsolete in every way. The only justification for the idea is also justification for the most hideously racist ideas that have ever plagued the planet. Burroughs didn't create these ideas...but he channeled them just fine. When Disney did "Tarzan" they side-stepped the whole issue: the result, a movie set in Africa without a single African! Somehow, I just don't think that's gonna fly in live-action.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:11 p.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Apologies if my sarcasmometer wasn't working right. On AICN there are so many over-the-top sincerely stupid posts... it can sometimes be difficult to catch the the ones that are just sarcastic. Mea culpa...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:33 p.m. CST


    by Toonol

    I don't think it's unworkable. Much of the premise of Tarzan is that an 'Englishman' was IMPROVED by being raised in the jungle by apes, away from the corrupting and weakening influence of modern man.<p> Including a tribal African in the movie will not make it racist. Even if the tribe is in conflict with Tarzan (at the beginning) will not make it racist. I don't see it as any sort of real problem for a filmmaker; I can't imagine any director would make as nearly a racist, stereotypical depiction as was found in, for instance, Transformers.<p> I'm sure somebody will protest, of course.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 3:53 p.m. CST

    I still think Billy Crudup...

    by DocPazuzu

    ...would have been the perfect John Carter. I'm a lifelong fan of the books who has been waiting forever to see this on the screen. I admire Stanton but my expectations have been tempered by what I consider to be a less than exciting cast -- with the exception of Willem Dafoe as Tars Tarkas which is simply inspired casting.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:07 p.m. CST

    John Carter a more interesting character than Jake..

    by zinc_chameleon

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:09 p.m. CST

    John Carter a more interesting character than Jake..

    by zinc_chameleon

    He's fearless, yes, but charming-dashing is the older term, and a Southern gentleman. The Martians are all more interesting as characters than were the stoic N'avi. If Andrew trusts ERB, he'll discover a world equally as interesting as Pandora.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:39 p.m. CST

    Didn't Harry and Jon Favreau try this once?

    by orcus

    Wasn't there some production art that was commissioned to that was supposed to be released to?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Thank you Meadowe!

    by D.Vader

    Yes, it was a long process and involved lots of emails but I was (thankfully) able to get my old, old name with the . back. Thanks, and happy 2010 to you too!

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:05 p.m. CST

    ...Stunt Vocalist, no worries. It wasn't my best work....

    by FlickaPoo

    ...I hadn't had coffee yet. I even considered rephrasing it for clarity at the time.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 5:16 p.m. CST

    If you think Kitsch made a great Gambit, you're an idiot

    by IndustryKiller!

    It's amazing how actors pretty much can't lose by playing a comic character thats even a reasonable facsimile of the book. It goes to show you the lack of understanding that most fanboys have for these characters, and how subconsciously think of them as no less disposable pop garbage than the rest of the non geek public. Kitsch had a ridiculously terrible accent, mumbled his lines, and had ZERO energy in the role. He looked completely lost in the wilderness. Bad writing or not (it was) at least make a fucking choice. I mean for Christ sake he wasn't even charming. The continued lack of any sort of understanding of acting by the larger geek community continues to mystify me. All you have to do to get a pass is deliver something that is reasonably English and not drool and piss yourself. Now maybe Kitsch isn't always a bad actor, I hear good things about Friday Night Lights, but he showed no potential as Gambit....none. Should Zac Efron ever get a role destroying a geek property from the inside out he should have nothing to worry about, someone will justify his presence.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 7:53 p.m. CST

    Hey, nightmute

    by Child_of_the_90s

    You do know that they've been trying to make "John Carter of Mars" for years now, do you? I rememeber hearing about how this was gonna be a PIXAR project in the early 2008, and other productions houses already tried to greenlight the project, sure, I do believe "Avatar" will have an impact in it, there's was even an interview at io9 where the production team of JCOM aknowledged the movie set a very high bar -in the tech aspect of course- but from there to them "jumping on Cameron's coat-tails" as you put it, well, quite frankly, isn't the right thing to say. Besides, this is PIXAR, goddamit, they take those weird stories that nobody else wanted to produce and made them masterpieces, or you forgot this is gonna be directed by the director of WALL-E?

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:28 p.m. CST

    by Teddy Artery

    This should be a very special project handled with kid gloves by Stanton. I think we'll be glad he's helming this one.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:33 p.m. CST

    There was no political correctness in ERB's day

    by ReportAbuse

    Which means a writer could actually tell it like it is without coming under fire from the p.c. contingent. Of course a white man like John Carter -- fictional analogue of real white men like Livingston, Stanley, Rhodes, et al -- wouldn't have much trouble becoming leader of a tribe of African primitives, either then or now. European civilization was and remains far advanced of anything the sub-Saharan Africans have going for them.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:37 p.m. CST


    by Toonol

    While I'm not sold on him at all, I don't think you can hold his performance in Wolverine against him. That was a directorial and production failure; the actors had no chance.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:48 p.m. CST

    A lot of the supporting cast...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...makes me very happy. And I liked the books when I was a little kid. I've decided to hope for the best.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 8:59 p.m. CST

    Gosh, Report Abuse, I guess you're right...

    by kisskissbangbang

    .Just like a black man didn't have much trouble becoming the leader of a country founded by white men...<p>By the way, there's a difference between non-PC & borderline racist. You're straddling that line.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:34 p.m. CST


    by lucasdefender

    Seriously, your, "Avatar rules" post is just painful. Honestly. Cameron gave up Terminator rights because it was the only way he could get the studio to produce the sequel, silly man. Cameron does not have the type of VISION that you speak of. The guy has had some good ideas and has made himself a sort of wizard in being ahead of the times with SFX consistently, and that's about it. Don't get me wrong, Terminator, Aliens etc; he's done alot of good stuff, but I wouldn't call him visionary. His films have always suffered from generic characters and weak dialogue. And, gosh dang it, the recent Avatar is the biggest rip-off of Pocahontas. Sincerely, just downright plagirism. Speaking of plagirism, did you ever hear of the russian author that used to pen epic fantasies in the 60's? Went by the name of Strugatsky? Anyways, he had a cycle of ten sci-fi/fantasy best sellers known as Moon. >In this universe the author had created a lush, green, densely covered in trees planet called PANDORA**. This planet was a humid place that was inhabited by a humanoid species called the NAVE**. This science fiction novel took place in the 22ND century**< Hmmmm.... any similarities? Just wanted to slow you down because the truth of the matter is, that Avatar is generic and soulless. This cannot even be redeemed by its visuals.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:39 p.m. CST


    by Hipshot

    Lots of odd questions to answer trying to recreate Tarzan for today. If apes adopted human children, why didn't they adopt a black child sooner? I mean, the likelihood is just phenomenal that it would have happened like that, save massive author convenience. Then you have this problem of humans who don't learn speech young almost never learn it at all. The natives, who would have been familiar with the phenomenon of apes adopting children, certainly wouldn't be in awe of him...or rather, there would probably be multiple "Man-apes" running around. You certainly couldn't have Tarzan as "King of the Jungle" in any way that makes sense, without postulating outright white superiority...and only a real asshole would even try that these days. I'd actually enjoy being wrong, but just don't see it working.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Hipshot, the speech issue isn't one...

    by kisskissbangbang

    ...because the apes who raised him, the mangani, had a language, which he learned to speak during the critical period for language. This also probably means, as the late Philip Jose Farmer was the first to point out, that the mangani were hominids (or hominins in the newest jargon), not apes, except in the sense that we're (naked, talking) apes.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:57 p.m. CST


    by lucasdefender

    You are seriously blind if you think that any Star Wars of the OT but Empire(this one has em' too, just in a lesser dose) wasn't laden-heavy with basically the same cheese and weird inconsistencies of Episode 3--always. My friends and I used to make fun of them when I was growing up, and this was always a part of Star Wars for me. Have you watched the OT in the past 10 years? Epsiode 3 actualy surpassed the overall weight of Jedi. If you are denying Jedi just because of Ewoks and crap like that, well then, its too bad you cannot enjoy something as special as that movie. I understand the first 2 prequels not being treated with affection, but, these really do except themselves with more than usual flaws; they come across as corney many times. In other words you should give credit where credit is due. Jedi is worthy, even more so... Episode 3.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Somebody will mock me in 3, 2, 1........

    by lucasdefender

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:05 p.m. CST

    ...BangBang. You've got homework to finish...

    by FlickaPoo're tardy.<P> I'm sick and tired of checking Harry's AVATAR review...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:10 p.m. CST

    I'm excited to see what Stanton will do

    by DDMAN26

    with a live action movie. And this is one of those books I've had at home but never got around to reading.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:19 p.m. CST

    ...true. After WALL•E, any Stanton movie is at the very...

    by FlickaPoo of my anticipation list.<P>I read a lot of Burroughs growing up, but somehow missed JOHN CARTER OF MARS.<P>I'm going to try to hold off until the movie comes out...emphasis on try.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:20 p.m. CST


    by Hipshot

    You're right about speech. I remember Farmer's book where he talked about that. One problem down, bunch more to go. I think only if the production executives and writer looked straight at the assumption of racial superiority behind the original mythos could they find a way to make it work. If they remain in denial about it, they'll shoot themselves in the foot. As I said, I'd frankly like to see it. "Graystoke" would have been quite good except someone apparently decided to remove all the action and adventure, leaving only some kind of odd meditation on the Noble Savage or something. Seriously odd, and quite dishonest. If an English cop had shot Tarzan's adopted father (as happened in Graystoke) Tarzan would have torn his throat out with his teeth, not held his father's body and cried like a bitch. Only Jane could possibly have saved that cop. Not sure why they avoided action, but it was a stupid decision.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:29 p.m. CST

    ...damn, I missed a TARZAN talkback. I wanted...

    by FlickaPoo be Tarzan when I was a kid. Thought it was a career.<P>I think I first discovered the old TARZAN-LONE RANGER ADVENTURE HOUR on Saturday mornings and my Dad later read a bunch of the books to me.<P>A long stick whittled down to fat-style crayon thickness at the tip, hardened over a candle flame, and finally sharpened in an old Stanley pencil sharpener set at the fattest setting makes a pretty reliable spear when you're ten.<P>I recommend hardening over the candle a second time after sharpening.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 10:51 p.m. CST

    It would have to be good DESPITE John and Dejah

    by DOGSOUP

    Wolverine's girlfriend is NOT who I wanted to see in this role. If were any less of a creative team I'd read a book instead. I know which one too...

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:21 p.m. CST


    by BooBoosDaddy

    would only work if done as a period film, and PG 13 to R, IMO. I loved the novels growing up. Son of Tarzan is a bit of a rehash slog to go through, though. And when ERB wanted to quit and write JCoM but was forced to continue with Tarzan, it shows. Pellucidar, the Ant Men, etc was silly. My concern would be if they could find the right writer to truly bring the character to life--and not fuck up the second half like in Greystoke. And the actor--a giant who is lithe and graceful while still looking like a hulk. Also he can convey incredible genius, since Tarzan is a genius level intellect. I imagine they run into the same issues with Cap America.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:40 p.m. CST

    Lynn Collins doesn't look exotically beautiful

    by kabong

    so they'll have to recast that part. <P> I have decided.

  • Jan. 16, 2010, 11:59 p.m. CST

    Having read 'A Princess of Mars' I can only wonder...

    by Chuck_Chuckwalla

    ... how they're going to handle comparisons to Avatar because Cameron borrowed a lot of shit from Barsoom. There's the Earth hero once being a soldier (in the civil war) who falls for a hot alien princess (she's red, not blue). And then there's six-legged animals and super tall alien warriors. Good luck with that, folks.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 12:45 a.m. CST

    jsscript and flickapoo and Stunt Vocalist

    by 900LBGorilla

    The original title was "Under The Moons Of Mars"

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 12:52 a.m. CST

    SnootyBoots and Tarzan

    by 900LBGorilla

    Good point man. <p> Modern audiences would probably barely recognize Tarzan if done as in the book. He was good, but he could be pretty merciless. <p> Plus no modern director would have the stomach to film what Tarzan did to the cannibal tribe that killed his mother ape…<p> The sa thing is that the stories in the oodles of Tarzan movies just suck compared to the book.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Hipshot. On Tarzan and leadership.

    by SnootyBoots

    You're right, Tarzan did become leader of the Waziri in The Return of Tarzan. I probably should have mentioned that. And I'm sure Burroughs used the kind of language of his day that we find racially insensitive now to describe the Waziri. And if Return were the only Tarzan novel one were to read one could easily find it racist to have the white guy become chief of a black african tribe. And I'm white and might not be writing this if I weren't. But Burroughs wrote pulp adventure stories about heroic, larger than life, men of action who became the leaders of every situation they entered into. So, I, personally, don't read it as racist for Tarzan to become leader of the Waziri any more than I read it as speciesist for him to become leader of the apes in the first book. It's a Tarzan novel and Tarzan leads, he doesn't follow. And I still think it was progressive of Burroughs to have written about a white man living happily with black people in 1913.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Hesiod2k and Tarzan

    by 900LBGorilla

    That was not very faithful either. It had a couple elements (and was certainly closer in story than the Weismuller stuff), but damn a 140 pound wimp ..on the most basic level that was NOT Tarzan. (The Disney cartoon was about the same in faithfulness).

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Stunt Vocalist and Star Wars

    by 900LBGorilla

    Well said man. Lucas screwed Star Wars so badly, I can’t even watch it anymore. Worse than ruining it though is that he refuses to release a good quality release of the originals. He is intent on erasing the originals from history...which is a travesty. <p> Lucas is a raging egomaniacal ass…and devolved into a talent less hack as well.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:29 a.m. CST

    Hipshot on Tarzan

    by 900LBGorilla

    You are oversimplifying Tarzan (not that its very complex). Burroughs certainly did NOT write a total nature over nurture story. It is a nature VERSUS nuture them from the start. <p> You are certainly right in that Burroughs gavc Tarzan an inherited nobility- but he also gave him a learned savagery and rejection of civilized culture and his English heritage. Indeed Tarzan comments throughout the entire series as to how ignoble his civilized counterparts are compared to the basest beasts and at times kills as a savage himself….he is far from simply an English lord whose nature drowns out his upbringing. <p> Burroughs did them the nature as a strong factor….Stronger than we view today - though that is partially due to a fascination with Darwinism in his time - which we apply today to everything but human variances (As it leads us down bad roads)…but was spoken about as an aspect of Darwinism in Burroughs day…..but that didn’t mean he typecast the races (as has been pointed out). <p> But our hypersensitivity to race does not mean Burroughs came from a racist standpoint. We see this in the Mars books as well. Yes Burroughs finds black Martians (but with whiter features) beautiful….but again the white Martians are the worst and most depraved of all the races on that planet (to the point of being cannibalistic- the theme that tends to get bad play in the 1st Tarzan book for the black tribe there). …and the black Martians are actually the closest to a master race in that series (Hirtorically for mars the white Martians were the originally dominant race- replaced by the Red Martians through interbreeding between all the races - and Burroughs finds the red Martians to be the most noble race on the planet).

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:56 a.m. CST

    Hipshot 2 Apes should have Adopted more in Tarzan?

    by 900LBGorilla

    Dude that was not your best post…Burroughs depicted a specific ape with a stronger than normal mother instinct lose her child at just the right time to have another needy and just orphaned child in front of her which happened to be human….there is nothing in the story that implies that Apes are in the habit of adopting human children and therefore should have done this a bunch of times already. <p> Even if in a Burroughs world another lotto could have hit- The mother ape/Kala was also under pressure constantly to abandon this weakling that grew so retardedly compared to the apes and child Tarzan was constantly under thereat of being killed if she didn’t protect him from other apes in the tribe. There is nothing there that would lead me to conclude the apes would have a bunch of surviving men they had raised hanging around. <p> You’re self dismissed other option was actually the correct one- this is a case of author inconvenience…indeed Burroughs works are rife with such things….as are many other stories-including one I just saw today- The set up for the Twin marine in Avatar getting sent to Pandora as the only match for a just murdered scientist brother …. who had a just-grown to useful size avatar ready for him ….who then joined the tribe on another set of incredible flukes comes to mind…but I still liked the movie.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3:06 a.m. CST

    Hipshot on Gresytoke- now THAT was a great post

    by 900LBGorilla

    Well said. Grestoke was Tarzan without the action or adventure….and you had me laughing out loud at the crying like a bitch version of Tazrzan….and damn your right…. Other than Jane present and throwing her body in front of that cop, there is NO WAY he would have survived another 10 seconds with Burroughs actual Tarzan character in the vicinity…(and if Tarzan wasn’t in the vicinity, he would hunt him down like a dog and get him later).

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3:20 a.m. CST

    ReportAbuse you've been duped

    by drturing

    Yeah give me a life of institutionalized school, work, death with sexless marriages and the repression of most masculine instincts where most people go their entire lives without killing anything but reaping the benefits of doing so. Fuck that shit. White colonial rule is for fucking pussies who are scared of polygamy and taking drugs in the jungle to communicate with the shit hidden in the back of our minds. White colonial society, too, is only the result of luck - access to certain foods, minerals, and diseases. Try reading some anthropology you dumb shit.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:43 a.m. CST

    child of the 90s

    by nightmute

    I appreciate your comments. I perhaps was a little too heated in my love for Cameron's work, and my remark that Carter is jumping on the bandwagon. I do recognize that Carter has been on the cards for years, and that Pixar is a fantastic outfit. I remember reading that a Carter movie was planned back in the early nineties, with Charles Edward Pogue as the writer, the guy who wrote Cronenberg's The Fly. I think, though, that my comments have been blown out of proportion. I maybe shouldn't have said that the Carter guys are jumping on a bandwagon, but Hollywood is notorious for exploiting the success of others, and I imagine that they recognize Avatar has possibly opened a door for them. The studio will throw 200 million bucks at Carter, so they want to be sure audiences will see it. Avatar has undoubtedly been influential in pushing this film along. Hollywood doesn't operate in a vaccuum. It may be that Carter will be better, but the bar is pretty high now. I do also know that Cameron is a magpie, and that he has borrowed other peoples ideas. The Terminator is based on Harlan Ellison's Soldier short story, and I think another one called Demon with a Glass Hand. Cameron ended up having to buy the rights or he would have been sued. I know that Avatar borrows from a short story called Joe or something, which has a paraplegic angle. I don't deny Cameron is derivative. I don't have an issue with this, though, simply because he mixes his ideas up in an effective way, and really does know how to sell a story. The Terminator is an iconic character now, and yet we all know that there were villainous robots and cyborgs before this. Somehow, Cameron did it in a way that struck a chord. He does have a knack for grabbing an audience. Sure, Avatar is Dance with Wolves meets Pocahontas meets dozens of science fiction stories, but I do feel that it has a freshness to it, in its combination of ideas. It's also worth noting that Cameron is a writer/director who generates his own projects. He may be the only auteur operating at this level of success. There's something admirable about that. I mean, the guy could take the easy route and make Transformers movies or some such commercial garbage, but he chooses to make life difficult in pursuit of yes, a vision. Ok, he's not Scorsese, but he is a risk-taker with a few stories worth telling. That's worth a few of my bucks at the box office.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:41 a.m. CST

    Cute goofy martians a la Pixar. No thanks

    by tradeskilz

    I can already see the cute lovable martians with big eyes and funny/goofy relatable voices. I dont know why Pixar gets celebrated for totally derivative and cliché story lines while regular film makers gets crucified for it. Step one: Create cute and goofy protagonists, lovable voices, derivative and predictable storyline. Step 2: Throw in some light ham-fisted social commentary. Step 3: Collect Oscars and 100% favorable reviews.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 8:28 a.m. CST


    by Dingbatty

    Agree, absolutely. If only Orphanage Animation would get Genndy's stuff produced, we'd finally see some truly brilliant animation on the big screen.<p>The only upcoming toon movie worth seeing is Secret of Kells.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 9:13 a.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Your last post was excellent. Thanks.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 9:31 a.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    It's clear you skimmed my post instead of reading and fairly thinking about it. Go back and read it again. <p>No pressure... I don't expect you to read my post objectively as you are LucasDefender: Keeper Of The Faith. Which means, ultimately, your post proved my point. <p>I'm glad you have fun with Star Wars. I give it a try once in a while, but the experience is constantly ruined by not only the points I've already made(no, not just Ewoks- go back and read my post) but by what could have been. One of the ways Star Wars changed movie making was by creating a 'lived in' (a REALISTIC futuristic/fantastic) universe. He went on to make it a plastic kindergarten LegoLand in space. <p>Imagine what could have been...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:24 a.m. CST

    ...on Burroughs, Tarzan, and racism...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...of course Burroughs and Tarzan are racist by our standards.<P> TARZAN OF THE APES has plenty of examples of casually assumed superiority of the "white race". It's also full of Rousseau-ish notions of The Noble Savage combined with the vague ideas of evolution and survival of the fittest that were tricking down into the popular imagination at that time.<P>Questions of race are thoroughly confused and even bipolar throughout the book. I love Burroughs, but he was just a great pulp writer, not a philosopher. He clearly can't shake the assumption that somehow we are defined by our "blood" Tarzan is smart, and strong, and disciplined as a result of his English "noble blood". At the same time, Burroughs is in love with the romantic idea of The Noble civilization is decadent and evil...the wild is brutal, but simple and pure. Adding to the confusion is the Darwinian element. People at the time usually wrongly assumed that white Europeans were somehow more "evolved" than people from other parts of the now Africans and apes are both more noble than decadent white Europeans but also less evolved and brutish. "Whites" are potentially superior in all things as a result of their "blood", but decadent civilization has corrupted them.<P>If anything I'd say Tarzan is an experiment on Burroughs' part. He clearly believes that "white" people are superior. He clearly believes that civilization corrupts people and makes them weak. The book tries to explore the question of what would happen if you took a perfect example of "white" European nobility and raised him in a perfectly pure, noble, and savage environment? Would you get the best of both worlds? In the imaginary world of Tarzan...the answer is yes.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:42 a.m. CST

    ...but I'm also sure that Burroughs would have...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...considered himself very progressive on race. The guy was clearly trying. The assumptions and prejudices of the age you live in are hard to shake.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Walt Disney /= Bare Dejah Thoris titties

    by BurnHollywood

    My interest is fairly nil.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:55 a.m. CST

    ...and an accurate Tarzan would be one scarred up...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...motherfucker. Take an inventory of his injuries in the first half of TARZAN OF THE APES...start the list with a giant flap of scalp torn away exposing the skull (Burroughs never describes whether the scalp reattaches when it heals or just skins over leaving a big patch of scar tissue) and a large area of flesh torn away on his torso exposing ribs Terminator style.<P>AVATAR's Colonel Scarface has nothing on Tarzan.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:57 a.m. CST

    Burroughs had nothing on HG Wells' racism...

    by BurnHollywood

    In his book THE NEW REPUBLIC, he actually calls for genocide against non-whites. I guess he thought the Martian war machines weren't selective enough...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 11:05 a.m. CST


    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...damn I agree with you a lot. Burroughs, along with almost all the genre writers who grew up pre-WWII, has to be judged with a large degree of historical perspective. <p> As I assume we will have to be, 50 to 100 years from now.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 11:31 a.m. CST

    ...Red Ned, likewise. In the future we will both...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...undoubtedly be recognized as giants in our respective fields...but can you imagine the difficulty future young scholars will have in parsing the infamous "Talkback" record?<P>I admire FlickaPoo's work, but when he says that if he found himself in Cormac McCarthy's THE ROAD he would eat Salma Hayek he being racist? Sexist? Is he endorsing cannibalism? Does he mistakenly think he's funny as a result of excessive red wine consumption?<P>And what are we to make of the repeated comments involving eyeball intercourse?...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 11:45 a.m. CST

    If images...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...of Salma Hayek are still in existence... <p> ...I trust they'll understand you completely.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 11:56 a.m. CST

    The most accurate depiction of Tarzan..

    by DrMorbius

    on screen has to be...<P>Tarzan, the Ape Man...<P>Bo Derek and Miles O'Keeffe...<P>"Jane, grab the<P>AAAAAAaaaaaggggghhhh..........

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 12:43 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo- Good stuff

    by 900LBGorilla

    Good posts on Burroughs/Tarzan I don’t completely agree-but good stuff. <p> On the scarring issue. Burroughs never mentions the ribs again, but he does seem to indicate that the scalp skin re-attached- for the rest of the series he comments that the scar is light, but when he gets angry it gets red and very visible. <p> Most stories seem to go easier on heroes in terms of scarring…and Burroughs is no exception….but he does make that attempt <p> One note on our standards of racism - our standards are so hypersensitive that we do not ask many questions about differences that once were asked (and studied empirically). There are certainly different relative physical abilities and limitations among the races, and there are a few studies that show mental differences….but as with gender, we coconsciously avoid that road out of PC where 100 years ago they did not. We may have more refined science now, but we do not ask the questions they once did- which may lead to findings we do not want to know. <p> Now it is probably a good thing that we don’t asks these questions, because we see where that leads …Eugenics, master races, genocide, slavery, and discrimination….and anything where discrimination against another human being is the least of the evils inflicted is scary shiat….but I don’t think that because Burroughs followed what much science (and scientific theory) of his day did makes him racist - and it is an interesting to ask if exploring differences scientifically is in itself racist either…it is the study of man. Now, I am not comfortable with it…but again my point is that my hypersensitivity to it does not mean it is in the initial questioning evil…man is simply not ready - and probably never will be to start down that path of inquiry…we simply have more proof of that as of 2010 than we did in 1913...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Hypersensitivity on Race

    by Hipshot

    One would have to be a Martian, outside the system of racial identity on Earth, to really judge if we are "hypersensitive" or not. If we're "hypersensitive" now, why not tell me at what point you think we were APPROPRIATELY "sensitive", since it seems to me that we were also "hypersensitive" in Burroughs' time--only instead of toward equality, it was toward a totally unconscious assumption of white superiority, and sensitive to anything that might question it. "Black Martians" no more represent black human beings than naming a hurricane "Thelma" represents women. Science fiction is filled with people who think aliens of one kind or another represent non-white human beings. If they are right, that says something pretty sickening about SF writers, that they can project humanity into aliens, but not into their fellow men of different skin color. Aliens are comfortable: they don't compete for resources or mates, they have no painful history to trigger guilt. Other human beings have this messy tendency not to fit into the boxes that are most convenient. I'm sure Burroughs was a good enough guy. Being a racist doesn't necessarily mean one is a bad person--just that one categorizes human value by racial group. How you TREAT other human beings is the standard of quality. I've gotta stand by this one: Tarzan, in the jungle tales, was attracted to apes, but not black women. Some of the most horrifically offensive stuff in my life was in those books, and I ignored it because it was universally present in adventure novels of the time. Read them, enjoy them, sure. Defend them? That's your privilege, of course. But then, privilege is what this is all about, historically.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:19 p.m. CST

    Hipshot and Hypersensitivity

    by 900LBGorilla

    I don’t know if you have read my last posts yet which explain my point more about this. <p> I am not saying they were “appropriately sensitive” in Burroughs time either...but we are so sensitive now as to not being able to ask - even scientifically what differences there in fact are…and again (as you will see in my latest posts) that may lead to a less fact based understanding..but is most assuredly necessary due to human nature and what we tend to do with such knowledge. <p> ***SPOILERS**** <p> On the issue of black Martians I don’t completely disagree with you that they don’t represent earth based Africans - but there is CERTAINLY symbolism there- and had the Martian races been reversed (The black Martians been the duped cannibalistic hedonists and the white Martians been the true genius masters) I am sure we would have a problem with that today- because though not a 1-1 correlation- the symbolism CLEARLY MATTERS. <p> Also note that on Mars the MOST NOBLE race in this series is that of the red Martians- those who came from an intermingling of all Martian races. … This is clearly an anti-racist message and a pretty impressive one for 1913. <p> Also when was Tarzan attracted to an ape in the books? I don’t recall that at all.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:23 p.m. CST

    Star Wars was fun = when I was 9.

    by hesiod2k

    Its not an adult movie. Watching it 30 years later -- you laugh at how cheesy and stupid most of it is. But, its fun because its a much more compact story line -- with very good actors who fit the characters.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Conan as Robert E. Howard envisioned him:

    by hesiod2k

    1. Tall and muscular. 2. Scarred from battle. 3. A pussy magnet -- who gets lots of it in a graphic way. 4. Highly intelligent and clever. 5. Lots and lots of blood and gore.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:30 p.m. CST

    ...the combination of changing ideas about race...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...romantic primitivism, and only partially understood evolutionary theory were a particularly potent and fertile mix for all the old classic pulp writers. <P>You'll find the same mix (with slightly different quantities of each ingredient) in everything from Tarzan to Conan to Jack London's CALL OF THE WILD and WHITE FANG.<P>Conan is a particularly interesting example. Howard was literally obsessed with questions of race, heredity, character, etc.<P>All these stories keep exploring and re-exploring different versions of the same basic experiment. What happens if you take a "civilized white" person and drop him/her into a primitive survival of the fittest type environment? What happens if you take a newborn perfect specimen of "white civilization" and raise it completely in a primitive and savage environment? What happens if you take a noble savage and suddenly introduce it to the civilized world? Can a "savage" "evolve" quickly in its own lifetime? Can a "civilized man" (or dog, or wolf) revert to noble savagedom while keeping all the virtues of civilization? They kept asking the same question again and again in slightly different forms.<P>You have to remember that at that time people were baffled and excited by the relatively recent discoveries of people like the Fuegians of Tierra del Fuego...a practically stone-age people clinging to the cold rocks at the Southern tip of South America.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:44 p.m. CST


    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...although I agree with a great deal of what you're saying, I don't agree that either Flickapoo or even the big Gorilla are defending the books from a modern perspective so much as placing them into the historical perspective in which they belong. <p> A good exmaple of this may be DW Griffith. He made The Birth of A Nation, which is, in addition to being a groundbreaking technical triumph, is both horrifically racist by any reasonable modern standard and was even controversial enough at the time it was made that Griffith went on to make the film Intolerance as an apology. Griffith himself never married but spent years with a mulatto "housekeeper" in what was almost certainly a romantic relationship. He even went on to make the film Broken Blossoms, which was the first American movie to portray interracial love (though absolutely chaste). So where does that line get drawn? Griffith made a movie that was essentially a horrifyingly racist rewrite of history, jammed with the most hateful stereotypes imaginable. He also did all those other things. <p> An absolutely current (though much smaller) example is the current sitcom Modern Family. I like it. I have some friends who won't watch it because of its stereotypical depiction of gay men. Now I have known gay men who were more fey than those depicted in the show (of course one of my friends from high school ended up performing on stage as Diana Ross), but certainly the majority of the gay men I've known are less fey than the couple portrayed on Modern Family. <p> So, somewhere down the line will the makers of this sitcom be deemed bigoted for having created these characters? Would I be deemed as unenlightened as some guy laughing at Amos and Andy for enjoying it? <p> I'm just saying it's a tough line to draw. Flickapoo pretty well echoed my personal opinion already but I think there's a range of lines that can be drawn by people of good will.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Howard is even more...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...intriguing when you throw Solomon Kane into the mix. Man, there is stuff there that is hard to read from a modern perspective. Even when I was a kid some internal editor sort of kicked in where I glazed past whole passages. <p> But damn I loved that fanatic old puritan. And probably the most positively portrayed character outside of Kane himself is the old witch doctor. And even though the story makes clear that Kane himself admires the man, unless my memory is failing completely, there's a line thrown in about how he will still, undoubtedly, end up burning in hell.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 1:53 p.m. CST

    Race and Fiction

    by Hipshot

    I've watched, listened to and participated in endless panels at SF conventions where race was discussed. Supposedly, dark-skinned aliens represented black people, and were supposed to compensate for lack of non-white human characters, or demonstrate that SF is somehow more accepting of others. I find this grotesque. Tribalism is hard-wired into human beings, and one of the things our culture does is to help hold back this tendency, hopefully to make room for our better angels. I remember Robert E. Howard writing about his hero entering a town and being "repulsed by the stench of Negroes." Wow. Just a man of his time, of course. To say this, and mean it, and then say we are "too sensitive" to race now is to ignore that this was the solid context of human interaction, and only BEGAN to breakdown in the 50's after four hundred years. Look at this talkback, and you can still see the effects of people who assume superiority and privilege, and are freaking out that non-whites, for the first time, actually have a seat at the table, and call people on the assumptions of cultural and biological superiority underlying so much of human culture. EVERY group thinks it's superior, and uses whatever philosophy or technology to try to prove it, and uses their mythology and storytelling to prop it up. Grasp this, and a huge amount of social inequity makes perfect sense. I react to Tarzan because I loved those stories despite the fact that they were clearly not intended for me. It hurt more than I can say to realize that millions of good people loved the tales, not realizing--or not caring--how it would feel to be like me. It is not your responsibility to care about the feelings of that boy. Fine. And I don't blame you for loving these stories. But we can't move forward if we refuse to look back. And our heroes, talented as they are, were still human beings.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:11 p.m. CST

    Hey Pixar!, if Avatar can show the Na'vi almost naked Dejah Thor

    by iluvsyfy

    I actually glimpsed 3 nipple shots of Neytiri in Avatar, and noticed in group scenes many of the Na'vi females were topless. Hell if Avatar can show all that cgi flesh in a PG13 and make 1.45 billion atm, Dejah Thoris better be as close to naked also, as in the books. Enfact since the first time J.C. glimpses D.J. in the novel, it is from a rear slightly to the side view of D.J. in all her naked glory, with some jewelry thrown in. Since it was night and torches were lit, Pixar should be able to show this in a PG13 w/o any problem.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Hey Hipshot

    by 900LBGorilla

    Nice post <p> Though I say we are hypersensitive to race now, you and I agree that we have to be careful due to human nature… you point this out in your tribalism comment, I mentioned it in what humans have done historically when analyzing race scientifically….you and I are on the exact same page there. <p> I think you are too harsh on Burroughs (And I don’t think Tarzan was ever attracted to an ape in the books), but you are correct that these writers were just human and were certainly influenced by their times - as we are influenced by ours (Mankind will never be perfect). <p> I didn’t realize that you were a minority until your last post. Anytime a young kid is hurt by prejudice is a shame. I’m sorry you went through that and hope your experiences are better now. <p> By the way you can add a paragraph by typing < P > without the spaces between the 3 characters.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:33 p.m. CST

    The line that ruined this movie for me.

    by malificus

    "Daryl Sabara (“Disney’s A Christmas Carol,” “Spy Kids”) takes the role of John Carter’s teenaged nephew, Edgar Rice Burroughs." TEENAGED NEPHEW? This movie is dead to me. Kinda relieved since I'm sure I would have watched it out of curiosity and been pissed about how bad it was, but knowing they've stuck some fucking nephew in it makes it very easy for me to scuttle this piece of shit sight unseen. I do recommend, for anyone saying "John Carter of who?", that you read these excellent books. Don't judge the concept by what I'm sure is going to be a tsunami of suck.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:36 p.m. CST

    Thanks a lot, Cameron and Stanton!

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    Now I guess I can kiss my dream movie adaptation of S.M. Stirling's "Sky People" goodbye! <p>

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:37 p.m. CST

    Still, looking forward to this...

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    More classic sci-fi pulp can only be a good thing...let's just hope it doesn't end up being another Sky Captain...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:37 p.m. CST

    ...interestingly, WHITE FANG and CALL OF THE WILD...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...are exact opposite examples of the same story. <P>In WHITE FANG a savage (red in tooth and claw...the perfect evolutionary specimen) wolf cub slowly becomes "civilized" or domesticated while retaining all of his primitive strength of limb and sharpness of tooth...becoming the ultimate human companion...the best of both worlds.<P>In CALL OF THE WILD a domesticated dog learns to live and thrive in the wild...dormant instincts reawaken. The intelligence absorbed during a domesticated youth augment new found instincts...resulting in the ultimate survivor. The leader of a pack.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:40 p.m. CST


    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I guess what I'm saying is that we're a work in progress. There are things my kids will never be exposed to that I swam in like water, environmental things that I am sure infect every opinion I have no matter how I regard myself. <p> From the earliest records of humans the name a tribe assigned itself almost always translated to some version of "the real people". In my opinion, anyway, one of the greatest glories of humanity is the halting, maddeningly slow process we've made, not so much at eliminating that tribalism but at redefining it in ways that allow us to become more inclusive. <p> You know, when I was a kid we were a "Bogey" house. It was a strange demarcation line at the time, among my white friends (which were relatively few because I grew up in the heart of the inner city) that your old man either watched Bogart or Wayne just religiously. <p> Anyway, we watched a few Wayne movies, too, though. Rio Bravo, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, The Alamo. But even when we watched them, sometime during the movie my dad would say "you know, he's married to a Mexican woman" as though he needed an excuse for watching it. I didn't pick up on that then, of course, and I didn't understand the pattern of what John Wayne movies we did and didn't watch. How could I, I hadn't seen the ones we didn't. <p> But as an adult I understand just fine. We didn't watch the cowboys and indians ones. Even classics like Ford's Cavalry trilogy. My dad was three quarters Cherokee, and our family name, the family name my kids are wearing, came from a fort in Oklahoma where Cherokee orphans were kept. <p> My dad was a lot older than my mom, and he'd served in Europe during World War II. And about the worst beating I ever got (and I got plenty) came after my dad overheard me telling another kid that I was part Cherokee. My dad told me, in between swings of the belt, that I was lucky enough to have an English name and so I was English. That anyone who thought what happened in Germany couldn't happen here was an idiot, and the safest thing to be in America if that day ever came was English. <p> So anyway, I think I can empathize with you a little on this. I've watched those movies now. I suspect Fort Apache would be on my list of the 100 greatest American movies ever made. But I never see one without thinking about my dad, and, minus the belt and insistence on them denying who they are, I've passed on what I can of what he learned to my kids. <p> Work in progress. What's important is we keep moving forward.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:46 p.m. CST

    ...a few years ago my sweet old Grandmother in-law ...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...(died at 94) was watching TV and said "...those black people...they can be REALLY smart!". She thought she was being magnanimous and open minded...<P>God help us all...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Yes, Tarzan had a crush on an ape

    by Hipshot

    Check out "Jungle Tales of Tarzan" sometime. ## I'm not TRYING to be harsh on Burroughs...I've said repeatedly that I consider him to be a brilliant storyteller, and probably a good human being. But I think racism (we'll call it "tribalism"--less of an emotional charge) was so much a part of the collective unconscious that he would have to have been a saint not to parrot its assumptions. To grasp that what he said and wrote was absolute assumption at the time says a huge amount about the social context. And it is the unconscious assumptions that are hardest to root out. I "twitch" at this stuff because I genuinely loved Tarzan, genuinely loved Conan, genuinely loved James Bond and all these other characters created by men who quite clearly did not love and respect me as an equal. I can deal with that: I'm a big boy. But I can also politely point out the conceptual difficulties. When people talk "hypersensitivity" they often seem to mean: "gee, why can't we throw shit downhill at outnumbered and outgunned groups like we used to?" If it is a human right to do such things, it is also a human right to bring these things to conscious attention, so that people can decide if they really, truly want to be that way. If so, fine. So long as you never, ever react to a perception of "mud slinging" yourself. But trust me: white folks who are female, gay, fat, old, disabled, poor, or in the minority political party are plenty quick to point out when they think someone is crapping on them. It isn't just "minorities" who are too sensitive. But that's the game some people try to play. Again...I LOVED Tarzan. Owned the entire run of the original Ballentine editions. And was aware at every moment that Burroughs was not, in any way, writing for me.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3 p.m. CST

    Yep, it was a bit unsettling

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    when Burroughs would sort-of not know if the tribe that raised Tarzan were people or apes, or something in-between. But as you said, it wasn't really malicious as it was just part of the European culture through the 1800's and around the end of the century. Now, H.P. Lovecraft, HE was malicious, (although still a brilliant writer)...It's not the artist, it's the art, or so they say.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3 p.m. CST

    ...I think we're all on the same page here...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...more or less. I'd let and even encourage my kid to read Tarzan...but the book would come with a long conversation (before, or after, or both) about different times, different assumptions, prejudice, misconceptions about evolution etc...<P>Come to think of it, we'd have pretty much the same conversation if my kid decided to read the Bible...but the conversation would be a lot longer...and more complicated.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3:21 p.m. CST


    by 900LBGorilla

    To clarify, I am not claiming minorities are hypersensitive- I am indicating entire culture is hypersensitive to race…I also said in some ways this is necessary and am certainly not saying lets throw shit downhill at outgunned groups. Indeed were I to favor such a policy, my wife wouldn’t fare too well under it as we don’t share my race. Also these groups are racial - not political parties. We probably don’t want to get political as that’s another story with many issues. <p:> I agree that it is certainly your right to bring up issues…and I believe you when you say that you loved these books…. But I still think you are being too harsh on Burroughs… that you don’t appears to simply be a matter of each of our opinions <p> You are right that Tarzan was not “written for you”, it was written for a predominantly European USA so naturally had the main character someone with a heritage similar to them… I think your bigger was -where you found that the books did not deem you an equal….it was surely written less PC, but I am not sure you can read that into it…though maybe you cited something earlier that I cant recall. <p> I have read all the Burroughs books multiple times…do you remember where in the Jungle tales this was (or what was said)?

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3:32 p.m. CST


    by SnootyBoots

    The first story in Jungle Tales of Tarzan is called Tarzan's First Love and his first love is an ape.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 3:50 p.m. CST

    Finding Nemo and Wall E = Pixar's best

    by TheWaqman

    and I'm very interested in seeing his next project. Hopefully they don't modernize it too much and keep it pulp. It worked greatly for Avatar (though you did have a few whiny fuckers complaining about the story).

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Hollywood is SCARED of Howard

    by BranMakMorn

    They have to water him down and only go for the easy generic action. They need a Fincher or Tarsem type director who might be interested on the core of of his writings.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 4:55 p.m. CST

    900 lb Gorilla

    by Hipshot

    Your points are cogent and clear, but you're missing my point: Burroughs wasn't thinking "I'm writing this for a predominantly European audience." He was writing it for HIMSELF. These were the stories HE wanted to hear, to tell. That's how artists work. This was his view--he was a part of his culture. I'm not being "hard" on him unless I'm being "hard" on the entire culture, and I've made it clear that I consider this stuff to be universal human tribalism, not confined to any group or time, and that the only way we're working our way out is that we have started to discuss, and consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, the perception of one group of humans as being "better" is just that--a perception, in the eye of the viewer and the mind of the person who creates or interprets standards. What I'm saying here is that the illusion is that "we," whoever "we" happens to be, are the "real" people: that we are the best, the brightest, the sexiest, etc. Most myth and story within any culture exists to support this, and the members of that culture will consider this so natural and normal that any challenge will seem like hatred, unfair criticism, or self-loathing. It is none of these things. It is awakening from a dream, really. Hard on Burroughs? How could I be when I lay these attitudes at the feet of all humanity, but then say, with not a hint of irony, that I think human beings are wonderful. I think we are strong and good enough to have our heroes, and tales of heroes, and still realize we must do better...and ARE doing better. In no way do I think we are standing still, or going backwards. But expressing my discomfort in polite conversation is hella better than breaking someone's head, ain't it?

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 4:58 p.m. CST

    yeah, Rome reunion

    by oisin5199

    funny how 3 of the leads of Rome are in it, and the press release mentions nothing of that. I guess they have to only mention films that they were in. But it's Atia, Mark Antony and Julius freakin' Caesar!

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:20 p.m. CST

    BranMakMorn, well Guillermo del Toro

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    has a pretty cool "At the Mountains of Madness" adaptation which he wrote several years back, although it does have too much generic action for my taste. Still, it was the closest I've seen to a project which gets Lovecraft's world. I've read he still wants to pursue it after The Hobbit Duology, so here's hoping, (and hopefully he'll tone down the "John Carpenter's The Thing"-stuff and tone up and dread and horrific elements). It's floating around online somewhere, probably...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Yep, the Rome reunion is awesome.

    by TheWaqman

    No doubt the director must have been a big fan of the show.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:37 p.m. CST


    by Red Ned Lynch

    well, now you've got too kumbaya for me. <p> Humans have the potential to be wonderful. That's a distinction. And we humans gravitate to tribalism in its most extreme forms in times of crisis, and though ethnicity has played a role in many or these tragedies, lacking that we humans will find some manner of tribalism to fall back on. <p> Just ask the people who lived in the French city of Beziers during the Albigensian Crusade. There were perhaps fifty of the somewhat nutty but largely inoffensive Cathar sect among the more than 20,000 people who lived there. But the other 20,000 didn't want to turn over those few dozen of their friends and neighbors to the papal army that was at their gates. "Kill them all, God shall know His own," the papal legate Arnold Amuary said, and every citizen of the city was put to the sword. By people who differed from them not at all, except for the fact that the knowledge of "God's Will" meant they were of a more privileged people. <p> Too long ago to be sufficiently horrifying? Just look at what happened in the remnants of Yugoslavia. They were neighbors, friends and fellow citizens one week, and the next week they were trying to exterminate each other over wrongs committed generations to centuries before. <p> Sorry to get so far into the weeds from a discussion of Burroughs, especially such depressing ones. <p> But I do believe that the urge toward tribalism, be it ethnic, religious, nationalistic...take your pick...because it empowers those who might otherwise feel helpless and downtrodden, because it offers a false sense of self worth to those who hold it tight, is a monster that can be leashed and controlled but that we're nowhere close to killing.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Red Ned

    by Hipshot

    I get your point. But I still see far more acts of kindness, honesty, and quiet courage than evil among humankind. The trouble, of course, is that one careless match can burn down an entire forest, so it behooves us to pay serious attention to the potential for violence. I have enough anger issues that if I didn't consider these things to be universal problems, and did not allow myself to see the beauty surrounding me and to believe that most people are good decent folk...I would have killed someone by now, I kid you not. Just my way of coping with chaos.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 5:55 p.m. CST


    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...I think I understand that pretty well. <p> Work in progress, that's my mantra.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Thanks to talkbackers

    by Hipshot

    You know, my ruminations about Tarzan got a little deeper than I intended. I just wanted to thank all you guys for a great discussion. This is almost like being at a good Con!

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:16 p.m. CST


    by TheMandrakeRoot

    How are you gonna sit there and defend the Star Wars prequels (or any SW film), and then in your next sentence you deride Avatar? It's obvious your a Lucas fanboy and are quite distressed over Avatars success. Lucas DID ruin Star Wars with the abominations that the prequels were, and yes, even Episode 3 is way cheesier then any of the OT, I mean fuck the introduction of Darth Vader - which should have been iconic - was one of the most painful scenes in the whole series. You've got either rose-colored glasses on, or a huge double standard...probably both. The reasons Avatar is being loved and accepted are the same reasons Star Wars was over 30 years ago, it's a great adventure which feels new and exciting to audiences, and it's a classic heroes journey story that hits all of the right emotional points while still remaining relatively light. Groundbreaking FX that provide grade-A escapism, never dumbing itself down but still appealing to mass audiences. Although successful, the prequels failed to match up to what Avatar and the OT did, mainly plagued by dull storylines, dull characters, horrible acting, and worst of all, a lack of wonder - somehow the Star Wars universe become more fake looking then ever. Despite what your personal thoughts about Avatar were, it succeeded in being a classic adventure tale with a rare sense of awe held throughout the film.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:27 p.m. CST

    Isn't this thing mo-cap, or animated...

    by Jaka

    ...or something? Why are y'all confusing me.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:29 p.m. CST would be great to get a Tarzan movie that could...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...catch both some of these deeper questions and the brutal action and ferocity of the original story.<P>It would be nice to think we're past the silliness about "race" that turns up in Tarzan, but the questions about civilization vs. barbarism are still valid.<P>If you showed the young Tarzan in all his animal bloodthirstiness there would always be the lingering he "safe"? The guy survived by killing with his teeth and his bare hands (and a rusty hunting knife)...the bodies he stomped on and screamed in triumph over weren't just dead...they were torn and mauled carcasses. He ate them raw...<P>...and people think DEXTER is complicated and dangerous...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 6:40 p.m. CST

    And he has a city named after him in California

    by ReportAbuse

    Tarzana, just outside of L.A. ... named in honor of ERB who was a long time resident. "In 1915 or 1919, Edgar Rice Burroughs purchased Otis’s land and built a large home on it, which he called the Tarzana Ranch. Burroughs subdivided and sold the land for residential development, and the neighboring small farms were also converted to residential areas. In 1927 or 1928, local residents renamed the town Tarzana in honor of Burroughs and his famous storybook character." Wiki

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 7:05 p.m. CST


    by Stunt Vocalist 709

    Thanks- good post. Your added points about Avatar and LucasDefender's reaction to it were on target and well said.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 7:41 p.m. CST

    Actually, a Tarzan film...

    by Hipshot

    Let's say someone came to me and said they had a hundred million to make a Tarzan movie, I could write it, and do anything I wanted with it. I would take the concept dead seriously: the son of an English nobleman is adopted by apes and somehow matures into something recognizably human. An event that (in this fantasy world) happened. What then would this imply about the rest of the world? To actually follow that question to the end of the line might be very interesting. In other words, Burroughs (as he says in the first book) heard the tale from someone who had no business telling it. WHAT IF HE HEARD IT WRONG? Tell the truth behind the cheesy novel--and that truth might be outrageously entertaining.

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 8:10 p.m. CST

    Oops, nevermind BranMakMorn...

    by Fa_Tass_DinoMolester

    realized you were referring to Robert Howard...

  • Jan. 17, 2010, 10:55 p.m. CST

    Thanks to you, Hipshot.

    by SnootyBoots

    I usually only make a random comment now and again on this site. When I compared the long gestation of the John Carter movie to the historic bastardization of Tarzan on film, I wasn't expecting to start a talkback within a talkback. It's been very interesting to follow.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 2:25 a.m. CST


    by ratpack223

    Love to hear this!!!

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 7:48 a.m. CST

    Sorry. The Icredibles=Pixar's best.

    by hesiod2k

    Its not even that close. Wall E was TECHNICALLY magnificent, but The Incredible was a far better movie qua movie. And I liked Rataoullie better than Nemo as well. Brad Bird is a genius.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:23 p.m. CST

    I disagree....

    by TheWaqman

    I saw the Incredibles recently and I enjoyed it immensely. BUT I liked Ratatouille more, but I find Stanton's work the best that Pixar has to offer. It has as much heart as Bird's as well.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:42 p.m. CST

    So the big question is

    by ominus

    will the Princess be naked showing her boobs or not? and if yes,then the next big question is who actress will play her? i have some suggestions over here: <p>

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST


    by lprothro

    The role's already been cast, and seeing as this is a disney/pixar venture; not much liklihood of toplessness.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Hipshot i have an even better idea about Tarzan

    by ominus

    TOM STRONG BY ALAN MOORE it even has a talking ape.way cooler than Tarzan's Cheeta.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:47 p.m. CST

    oh really? who did they cast?

    by ominus

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:49 p.m. CST


    by lprothro

    ..The actress who played Logan's love interest in "Wolverine". Name escapes me right now, though.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:51 p.m. CST

    cool. she is very hot.

    by ominus

    i cant wait to see her in a chain-mail bikini or whatever she is going to wear.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 1:54 p.m. CST


    by Yer_Maw

    er ... I know you're recommending the books and all, but maybe you should give them a quick re-read too? The ERB/nephew character is from Princess Of Mars - he's the one JC tells his story to. It's not too age-specific (if I'm remembering correctly), but I think the idea is that ERB is telling us the story years after his Uncle JC told it to him (when 'ERB' was a kid).

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 2:07 p.m. CST

    The DTV 'Princess Of Mars' movie

    by Yer_Maw

    Watched it yesterday. Wow. If it had starred Kevin Sorbo with Ted Raimi and been titled 'John Carter - The Legendary Journeys' it wouldn't have been any worse.<p> <p>Tars Tarkas' rubber tusks are my favourite bit - one of them is actually hanging of during a fight scene. Brilliant. There's a swordfight at the end where they obviosly had no fight choreographer on set, so it was just 'swing your swords around a bit and we'll cut back and forth'. <p><p>***SPOILERS: the villain - ON MARS! - is an Afghani druglord. Oh, and JC is a modern-day marine fighting in a low budget middle-eastern conflict where he'sa one-man unit. And Mars is a different Mars. ***SPOILERS END<p><p>Lots of paper-mache Thark-heads and nobody's red. And Traci Lords looks a bit rough. Though I still wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating biscuits.

  • Jan. 18, 2010, 2:15 p.m. CST

    Yeah i wasn't expecting much from Asylum..

    by lprothro

    but that sword fight---sheesh, I think my friends and I choreographed better duels with our "Masters of the Universe" swords back in '83.

  • Jan. 19, 2010, 9:39 a.m. CST

    "teenage nephew?"

    by jarjarmessiah

    I knew they would fuck it up.

  • Jan. 19, 2010, 3:31 p.m. CST

    ERB = Carter's nephew

    by GeneralJackCosmo

    In the fucking book, people. It is an integral part of the story's et-up. Once is IN THE BOOK.

  • Jan. 20, 2010, 12:52 a.m. CST

    Taylor Kitsch is great on FNL

    by zooch

    Give Riggins a chance! Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose! on Mars!

  • Jan. 20, 2010, 2:41 p.m. CST

    by Kaviyd3

    While I guess that Lynn Collins may look okay as Dejah Thoris with enough makeup, they would have done better to cast a dark haired, brown skinned exotic type in the role. Anju McIntyre would be perfect for the role -- take a look around at some photos of her and you will see.

  • Jan. 20, 2010, 2:42 p.m. CST

    A better Dejah Thoris casting choice

    by Kaviyd3

    With a subject line this time: While I guess that Lynn Collins may look okay as Dejah Thoris with enough makeup, they would have done better to cast a dark haired, brown skinned exotic type in the role. Anju McIntyre would be perfect for the role -- take a look around at some photos of her and you will see.

  • Feb. 19, 2010, 9:48 p.m. CST

    Princess of Mars text is online....

    by crgreen

    Burrough's novel Princess of Mars is one of the on-line books at Project Gutenberg.

  • Feb. 22, 2010, 12:17 p.m. CST


    by orcus