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‘Chose Me For What??’ Friday Brings The Almost-Last DOLLHOUSE Episode Ever!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
In 1921, Czech playwright Karel Capek invented the term “robot” for his play “RUR (Rossum’s Universal Robots).” The “robots” in the play were not metal men but human-like replicants designed to free humanity from menial tasks. (“Robot” comes from the Czech word “robota,” meaning “forced labor.” “Rossum” translates to English as “reason.”)
From Wikipedia’s entry on the play:
Although [the robots] seem happy to work for humans, that changes and leads to the end of the human race due to a hostile robot rebellion.
An abridged adaptation of the play, in which the “robots” appear to be made mostly of cardboard:
Tonight:
THE HOLLOW MEN
Written by Michele Fazekas & Tara Butters (creators of “Reaper”) & Tracy Bellomo (“The Left Hand”).
Sacrifices are made when Echo leads her crew to Arizona to dismantle the Rossum Corporation's mainframe. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic.
In two weeks, the series finale:
EPITAPH TWO: RETURN
Written by Maurissa Tancharoen & Jed Whedon (“Epitaph One,” “Meet Jane Doe,” “The Attic”) & Andrew Chambliss (“Meet Jane Doe,” “Stop Loss”).
Picking up from the events depicted in "Epitaph 1," the "lost" episode of DOLLHOUSE, and set in the year 2020, Echo and her surviving Dollhouse crew attempt to restore order to a devastating future world before mankind is eliminated. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic; Alan Tudyk as Alpha; Adair Tishler as Caroline; Maurissa Tancharoen as Kilo; Felicia Day as Mag; Zack Ward as Zone; Nate Dushku as Clive; Noah Harpster as Matthew; Christian Monzon as Romeo; Brandon Dieter as T.
9 p.m. Friday. Fox.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
CHEAPEST LOST EVER!!
$16.99 Season One!!
$16.99 Season Two!!
$16.99 Season Three!!
$19.99 Season Four!!
$19.99 Season Five!!
In Orbit Now!!
Written by Michele Fazekas & Tara Butters (creators of “Reaper”) & Tracy Bellomo (“The Left Hand”).
Sacrifices are made when Echo leads her crew to Arizona to dismantle the Rossum Corporation's mainframe. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic.
Written by Maurissa Tancharoen & Jed Whedon (“Epitaph One,” “Meet Jane Doe,” “The Attic”) & Andrew Chambliss (“Meet Jane Doe,” “Stop Loss”).
Picking up from the events depicted in "Epitaph 1," the "lost" episode of DOLLHOUSE, and set in the year 2020, Echo and her surviving Dollhouse crew attempt to restore order to a devastating future world before mankind is eliminated. Guest Cast: Amy Acker as Dr. Claire Saunders; Summer Glau as Bennett Halverson; Miracle Laurie as Madeline Costley/November; Reed Diamond as Laurence Dominic; Alan Tudyk as Alpha; Adair Tishler as Caroline; Maurissa Tancharoen as Kilo; Felicia Day as Mag; Zack Ward as Zone; Nate Dushku as Clive; Noah Harpster as Matthew; Christian Monzon as Romeo; Brandon Dieter as T.
CHEAPEST LOST EVER!!
$16.99 Season One!!
$16.99 Season Two!!
$16.99 Season Three!!
$19.99 Season Four!!
$19.99 Season Five!!
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Love Dollhouse more and more as the series wraps up. Better not pull a BSG ... if Echo turns into a glowy angel, I'm gonna be writing letters ....
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After the holy shit ending of last week, I am not sure what else they can throw at us for the last two shows. Hopefully, Joss doesn't pull an Angel and leave us hanging.
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...after the last three episodes I'd agree with you. Dollhouse belongs on a top ten list for the year.
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...is why I'll always look forward to a new Whedon show.
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Surely they need something good for the 10pm slot...
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There's a theory that Boyd is taking down his own company from the inside, using Caroline/Echo to do it. Not sure myself...maybe its just because I don't want him to be the bad guy.
My theory is that Boyd scanned himself after he met Caroline and imprinted himself onto a doll. So during the timeline of the series, there is another Boyd running round looking like someone else, he's the one keeping the company going while the 'real' Boyd attempts to bring it down. That would at least explain how a person could run a huge corporation without anyone knowing his face (bit silly a plot otherwise Mr Whedon). Of course if he is properly evil, then that theory goes out the window. -
Sorry to spoil it for all of you, but the final scene will be River Tam waking up from a dream...Dollhouse was all a dream!!!
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From Dollverse: On The Hollow Men - This episode is explosive – every character in this series has a past, and they’re all in that ‘house for different reasons. This episode is, to me, the series finale.
On E2: Return - Dollhouse: The Movie.
http://tinyurl.com/ygo3ek8
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if he is the big bad, it could all be a ruse to get Echo into the mainframe to do SOMETHING that causes the apocalyptic future seen in Epitaph One. Maybe they need a 'composite' in order to get the tech wireless?
Oh I don't know...and only a Whedon show could make me write a sentence that makes as little sense as the last one above. -
I am a Joss fan, and Firefly is probably one of the single best television shows I have ever seen. But part of me thinks that maybe it is so good is BECAUSE it ended when it did. Maybe this show is going to share that fate, and in a few years it will be on critic's lists of the best of the decade. In the U.K., shows (for the most part) are developed to have a short run, and because of that, some pretty exciting stories are produced. In the U.S., a television show is squeezed for every last dollar and then discarded. Hopefully this show will end up a classic because of its short run.
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Instead of being strung along for years and the central storyline moving at a snail's pace, padded with numerous filler episodes of Echo dressed in kinky outfits, DOLLHOUSE is finally living up to its potential. As long as we don't get a bullshit finale like Ron Moore's BSG fiasco, this should be a compelling final two episodes. Looking forward to tonight.
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What happened to anti-penultimate?
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the short seasons did. That's what you meant,yes?
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I hope the entire cast dies horribly by a mummy's curse.
FUUUUKKKKYYYYYYYYYYYYOOOOOOUUUUUUUUU whedon -
WHy does a smart lad like you like whedon's tripe? Please re-evaluate your life. Look into Scientology, brother.
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It's apparent that DOLLHOUSE was a fairly limited premise for a series. The only way they could really go is having the Dolls wake up and developing some form of resistance against The Powers That Be behind the program. Even with a format of several shorter seasons similiar to LOST, this storyline would just have been dragged out and padded with filler episodes. With the cancellation, everything's been ramped up and every episode suddenly matters.
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...the difference is amazing. Now is there a pace between what went before cancellation and the frenzied pace they've been at since that I would prefer? Probably. The kind of pace you would set for this story knowing you had three 12 episode seasons, from the start of the show. TV mostly doesn't work that well. And I'll sure take what the last half of this second season (really, the second season as a whole has been damn solid...a couple of bad episodes but to bitch about that would just be stupid) has given us. Good for Whedon. Hoping he doesn't stay off television for long.
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before they show Epilogue Two? Dummkopfs. How will people know what's going on.
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I understand he was pissed at the way the WB and Fox fucked things up with Angel, and decided to leave everyone hanging with a cliffhanger, but I hope history doesn't repeat itself. It would be nice to have some real closure this time.
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Jan 15, 2010 9:06:05 AM CST
Herc didn't say Penultimate? Was that your word for the year
by i_sharted
in 2009 or something and now you have to find a new one? Thank god only one more week of wasted webspace on this show.
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...you're kidding, right? Right? That was a pitch perfect final episode. That was the sort of ending you aspire to create. That was one of the best series finales I have ever seen.
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Just askin'
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It's antepenultimate. Forgive me.
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Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a great ending, and I applauded Joss for having the guts to end it like that. I just don't want him to do the same thing again.
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Just so I can put my sanity at rest, they have never aired Epitaph One, right? I want to make sure I'm not missing something.
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...simple misunderstanding then. That sort of ending wouldn't fit this show. Sorry for the barking.
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Tonight is going to be so good! I'm friggin' excited!
I was in the camp that didn't actually like "Epitaph One", and thought it was the right decision to end the season on "Omega". I found the un-aired ep to be boring and primarily lacking the characters we watch each week.
But once we saw where this season was heading, and that "Epitaph One" would be the end-game, I became excited, and would love to re-watch that ep.
Knowing there will be an "Epitaph Two" is a pleasant surprise because I didn't like the vibe from part one as a way to end this solid show.
"Briar Rose" is still my favourite, but this season's "The Attic" is a close second. Seeing Echo and that group together with Arcane and the rioting city after them reminded me for the first time of Sunnydale or LA when the Scooby gang or Angel Investigations had to face an "apocalypse". I loved that episode, as it gave viewers a sense of dread for the characters not seen since Alpha's attack. -
Unless they're doing flashbacks, having her body propped up in a corner, or we discover her full name is Claire Bennett Halverson (aka Wolverine Girl from Heroes), I don't get why she's still hanging around. Or she's a Terminator!!!
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Can not wait. Epitaph 2 should be the perfect shot followed by a Lost chaser.
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should be considered stand alones. If the show had gone 5 seasons, Epitaphs 1-5 would have been a glorious head-fucking mini-series to cap off the show.
But tonight is the Hollow Men, and it's the shows main finale.
Hollow Men, by the way, is most famous for it's closing stanza :
" This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper. "
Expect a downer of an ending, so. -
Epitaph One, YOU MORONS. If you dont know by now then that's some sad shit.
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...tho the cancellation amped up the action/tension/drama/etc, I think I rather had seen Dollhouse last long as it might have been planned...I do think Echo should beeen self-aware in season 1, but come on guys, youre actin like Whedon couldnt continually writin stories or arcs for the show...there could been new dolls...new handlers...new houses...new tech...the storylines could have been endless (or at least 3-4 seasons long)...but man I CANT FUCKIN WAIT TONIGHT
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...Boyd is a good bad guy...or at least a great mindfucker...and I dont think Claire a sleeper cuz it would seem her killing Bennett would halt Boyds plan
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Due to a Haiti appeal-ly thing.
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Truly, I had no idea this show was still on.
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Great, can they bring Sarah Connor back now please?
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Great idea whoever mentioned it above. And like Terminator last year, Dollhouse has finally hit full speed now that it's being cancelled.
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the "better after cancellation " thing, considering they were filming episode 10 when they found out. I will however buy the "smaller seasons helped accelerate the storyline" bit.
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but I'm wondering if that counts for Canada as well. I'm guessing "yes" if it's anything like the telethon they had after 9/11.
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when it was made official, but the writing was on the wall as soon as the ratings for episodes 1/2 etc.. were known.
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Dollhouse will wind up being the "Blade Runner" of it's day. Mark my words.
The concept is way to creepy and smart for your typical Fox viewer to get grasp of.
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the writing should have been on the wall halfway through season 1. I heard they were still hoping (planning?) for a back 9 until the annoucement. Both things still don't cover the forward arc-yness that has happened since S2 Ep4.
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Hadn't seen Epitaph One or anything beyond it until this week, finally watched it all and I'm a bit underwhelmed, confused by the mega praise the fanboys are giving this. Don't get me wrong, it's a good show, but I feel like there should be a lot more going on for these last few episodes. If there was another season confirmed, I'd be more than happy with the progress so far, but knowing that it's all coming to an end, I don't think it's been nearly as exciting as it should be.
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...in terms of the narrative, from episode 7 on there has been such extraordinary forward movement that it is difficult to see how there could be "a lot more going on". Keep in mind that there are character beats here that are essential for the show to have any chance of reaching a satisfying conclusion. These may be what seem extraneous to you, but without them you would be watching a piece entitled "exposition with explosions". Really, the economy with which the last half dozen episodes of this series have unreeled vast quantities of both character development and plot movement have been remarkable. There are bits that I, anyway, wanted much more of. The consequences of Ballard's loss and the possible bittersweet recovery that Adelle's most recent action may afford him. The coming together of Victor and Sierra, which in a less hurried environment, given what I have seen, may have hit some soaring notes. The emotional tease of Boyd's first secret, because if that had gotten to play out through two or three more scenes before surprise two hit the impact might have been like a train. Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is I disagree.
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I was also thinking that Boyd isn't the big bad but is working against the company. But then again who knows since its the end and maybe he is?
The writing for Dollhouse has been so inconsistent throughout the course of the series (very good to boringly bad), I hope they conclude things well. -
Just get on and make some kind of Buffy related series will you?!?!?
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I'm so proud of you. The therapy must be working.
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More evidence, that I called it right about this series from the beginning! Here is one more article to add to the growing post-mortem analysis of "Dollhouse".
From: GeekaChicas
Dollhouse: Did I Fall Asleep?
Posted by: UberWench on Jan 14, 2010
Tagged in: Whedonverse , Video , Television
For those of you who have followed this space for any amount of time, it will come as no surprise that many of us here at GC are Joss Whedon fans. I'm no exception. I am, quite possibly, genetically predisposed to love anything Joss Whedon writes.
Last spring I was looking forward to Dollhouse, even though the premise (a group of programmable people sent out on assignments with different personalities and memories each week - most of the assignments naturally being sexual/romantic in nature) sounded strangely misogynistic and dark. Joss Whedon gets a lot of leeway with me, because he's Joss. I set my DVR with hope in my heart.
It was not love at first sight, let me tell you. That series opener was so narratively jumbled that I had a hard time watching the whole episode. I had a hard time watching it to the end, and I can lose an hour on YouTube watching videos of cats eating broccoli.
So why was this first episode of the new show helmed by my favorite television writer less compelling than, say, gonads and strife? I'll tell you.
The real challenge with Dollhouse (and it's a doozy) was finding a relatable character.
Echo (played by Eliza Dushku) is the natural choice, since her original personality, Caroline, was forced to sign a five year contract with the Dollhouse, and victimhood is an easy path to character sympathy. But we don't know much about Caroline, and Echo is not a person in the strictest sense, at least in the beginning. She has no real memories that carry from episode to episode, and the personality quirks that define her change as well. The major story arc of the first season is Echo emerging as a person, a sort of composite of her imprints with a single organizing intelligence/identity. But for most of the first season, she's not really anybody.
A couple of other dolls we meet in early episodes, Sierra and Victor (Dichen Lachman and Enver Gjokaj), ended up being more interesting than Echo, which I can only assume was unintentional. Both of these actors have a more versatile instrument than Eliza Dushku. Even as dolls, they managed to be more subtle and intriguing from the get-go than our dear heroine, who admittedly had a much larger narrative burden to carry. Still, subtlety is not Ms. Dushku's particular strength, so her various personalities could only be effectively broadcast by props. (Look! Eliza Dushku in glasses! Eliza Dushku in long white socks and high-heeled Mary Janes! Eliza Dushku with a cane, because in this episode she's blind!) I wanted to know more about Sierra's history than I did about Echo's, and I can't have been the only one.
Not that I disagree with the casting, because Eliza Dushku is an absolutely perfect Echo (by which I mean the composite personality that eventually emerges). She really, really shines in the role in later episodes, and you believe that Echo is a person on her own. A very complicated and surprisingly sane person, with what amounts to super powers and a heroic agenda. Dushku sells the role, and Echo rocks.
It's just that she (Echo) didn't really emerge until near the end of the first season, by which time everyone who wasn't already a rabid Joss fan had given up on the show. The ratings dropped sharply after the sub-par pilot (which, to my untrained eyes, has the big, greasy fingerprints of network meddling all over it). I was so surprised when it got renewed that I couldn't help speculating whether Mr. Whedon had some incriminating photos of network execs stashed away somewhere.
Like most dolls, Echo mostly goes on romance assignments, for which she is imprinted with a personality and memories designed to make her completely compatible with the client - the scifi equivalent of a blow-up doll. As unpleasant as that was, even worse was the justifications of the support personnel, noting that they give their clients the ‘real thing' in that dolls are programmed to genuinely fall in love with the clients. They seem to discover the greatest love of their lives, only to have their memories wiped clean and become someone else for the next client.
That is how you are introduced to Topher Brink, the genius who designs each personality the dolls are given, depending on the requirements of the assignment. Topher is a geek boy, arrogant in his brilliance and as emotionally stunted as any man-child you are likely to encounter in fiction - a man so excited by what he can do that he never stops to ask whether he should do it. He's played with pitch-perfect, twitchy accuracy by Fran Kranz, who is the epitome of geeky adorableness.
I should have LOVED him, but didn't.
It took surprisingly long for me to warm to him, actually, even though he is by far my favorite character in the second season. More on that in a bit.
Also in that first episode, we're introduced to Paul Ballard, the FBI agent investigating the Dollhouse, an entity that most people do not believe exists. Tahmoh Penikett (whom some will recognize as Helo from BSG) does a fine job with what he's given, but even his character was a bit too shrill and angry to be entirely sympathetic at the start. It's hard to sympathize with his search for proof the Dollhouse exists, when the viewer already knows a lot more about the Dollhouse than he does. There's just not much curiosity-based tension in that set-up.
So we, the audience, were left trying to relate to the Dollhouse employees - people who are essentially human traffickers. That's a tough nut to crack, people.
There was Adelle DeWitt, the brittle ice queen who runs the Los Angeles Dollhouse (played with restrained, tea-sipping intensity by the incomparable Olivia Williams*). DeWitt places great importance on the well-being of her operatives, perhaps to assuage her guilt over the whole turning-people-into-toys thing. For what it's worth, some of the dolls signed contracts for a few years of service, during which their memories are stored away while their bodies are sent out on assignments bearing completely different identities. So, some of them were open-eyed volunteers.
Some, however, were not. Like Alpha (played by the always wonderful and usually doomed character actor Alan Tudyk), who was a serial murderer before being wiped and sent to the dollhouse. (Oh, look! We can add ‘experimenting on prisoners' to the list of crimes committed by the Dollhouse, and its parent company, The Rossum Corporation.) But - oh noes! - his violent tendencies weren't wiped away with his memories. Sometime before the opening episode, he went berserk in the Dollhouse, killing many of the defenseless dolls (Echo is notably spared) and Dollhouse employees, and wounding several others before escaping.
Alpha is the bogeyman who provides the first season with whatever enduring jeopardy it managed, and Tudyk plays him to the hilt. Alpha was a killer to start with, but the Dollhouse made him into something much more menacing. He's a chimera of brilliance, violence and insanity. In a way, he's a precursor to Echo, because he has cobbled together an identity out of all his past imprints. He's a person - a deeply damaged and sick person, but he's not a 'doll' anymore.
The whole first season is really about Echo becoming a person in much the same way as Alpha (and with his decidedly self-serving assistance). That was an intriguing story, it's true, but it's one that developed over the first season. The season opener only had the vaguest hints of it, and no really solid character in whose corner you wanted to be.
The only really relatable character in the first few episodes was Boyd Langdon (played by Harry Lennix), the new man at the Dollhouse, brought in to be Echo's handler. He was compassionate and pragmatic, and went to great lengths to protect Echo when her assignments went wrong. In short, a real hero. (Harry Lennix can be my daddy anytime.**)
As C. A. Bridges of Bashing in Minds had assured it me it would, the show quickly became much more intriguing and complex than anyone unfamiliar with Whedon's work would have expected. Even though it improved steadily, the core narrative remained a little muddled until about the fifth or sixth episode, which had documentary style man-on-the-street interviews, with people taking about the Dollhouse as an urban legend. That would have been a better introduction to the show, rather than wasting three or four episodes trying to get us invested in Echo's barely-detectable story arc. (That goes against popular reasoning, which is to get viewers attached to characters first, but I think a clearer statement of concept would have helped in the beginning.)
I stuck with it, because I had faith in Mr. Whedon, and it paid off. Sort of.***
In the end, Dollhouse has become one of the most subtle and masterful explorations of character and humanity that has ever aired on American television. And that's just too bad, because nobody's watching anymore. It mostly lost its audience early, and never really won it back.
The second season has seen Topher Brink grow a conscience, act on it, and suffer the consequences. It has explored how the attachment between Victor and Sierra persisted despite their lack of conscious memory of each other, creating a truly haunting picture of the transcendence of love. Because I didn't give up, I got to see DeWitt's core morality of solid steel show through all those layers of scheming and somewhat distasteful practicality. I can't even begin to tell you what has become of Langdon and Ballard - at least not without ruining some of the best head-exploding twists ever written for television.
This show has become, to put it in ‘net vernacular, awesome like woah. Whedon gives minor characters layered back stories and motivations, even some of the ostensible villains are slathered in shades of grey. Dollhouse only had one completely irredeemable recurring villain (other than shadowy Rossum suits) in the man who deliberately enslaved Sierra when he failed to seduce her. As I am totally comfortable with the idea of rapists being bad people, that is fine by me. Actually, a few of the less prominent but still evil-to-the-bone characters have been those who abuse or objectify women, which to my mind gives the show a bit of balance, since the premise of Dollhouse is really pretty loathsome, on the face of it.
Whedon has done the near impossible in taking a fairly misogynistic premise and making it into a ballad of contemporary girl power. I cannot explain exactly how this happened without massive spoilers, but he did it and Dollhouse has become a thing of beauty. I'm gobsmacked (and amazed, more than ever, that he managed to get this on television, and keep it on as long as he did).
So, if you missed Dollhouse, or were put off by the first few episodes, check it out on video, or stream it online. It's worth it as a study in thwarted expectations, character development and atypical storytelling. Characters in this show do not always behave as you'd expect them to, but their behavior always makes sense in terms of who they are. It's a masterful study of identity, free will and human struggle worthy of the giants of the genre. I know I've spent a lot of time griping about the first episodes, but it is only because I blame them for the failure of a really cool, unusual show.
In answer to this article's titular question (used as part of the dolls' call-and-response programming with their handlers), I can only respond as the handlers do, "For a little while."
When I woke up, I fell in love. Just in time for it to be canceled. *sigh* It may have started shaky, but it has come around to the point that the next time Whedon has a new show - no matter how off-putting the premise - I'll be right there to lap it up. Again.
Damn you, Joss Whedon! *whimper* I love you.
*girl crush
**Electra complex
***canceled! AGAIN.
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Jan 15, 2010 1:59:17 PM CST
DirkBelig: Maybe They Are Going To Elaborate On Bennett....
by media messiah
...and Caroline, and their alluded at lesbian relationship? Bennett needs a wider motive for betraying Caroline, than the one that was shown on the series, either that, or it would be a tremendous failing in the writing department. As I said before, to just abruptly kill off Bennett after taking such great care to set in place her character on the show, would be a great waste, and a calculated faint, one that just doesn't make any sense? They had to have had a broader reason for putting Summer Glau on the show, than just using her to die in a shock value killing???
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Not sure where the above came from but a cut and paste of an entire entry from another web-page is a no-no of major proportions. Media Mesiah...you should know better than to do something like that.
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And I have cut and pasted articles before, and placed them on AICN, for debate, or simply to share with others, for years now, as have other posters. How that infringes upon you, I don't know, but certainly, everyone who has been reviewing this show in post-perspective...appears to be siding with my long held views, organtically?
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For this series to be put out of it's misery.
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Hmmm...now that Leno's show is cancelled Herc seems to have lost all interest in reporting daily TV ratings....wonder why? Guess now that his goal has been accomplished ratings aren't interesting anymore. Oh yeah...this story is about Dollhouse....errrrmmm....who cares?
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...those daily ratings are the cause of the late night war now...damn you Herc
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...it doesn't infringe on me. And portions of someone's original material can be cut and pasted, if credited, under fair use. But to cut and paste an entire column is not all right. It may have been done before. It may have been done here and by you. And you might do it for the rest of your life and never get the site you do it on boxed in the ears for it. The most likely outcome, if the creator of the original content noticed it had been posted here without permission, would be a simple request for it to be removed. So it isn't a giant deal. But yeah, it's wrong. And yeah, I'm fond enough of this place to wish you didn't do it here. As far as your long-held views...I guess good for you? It's good when people agree with you organically.
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Good Riddance!!!! Say hi to Firefly when you get to oblivion at the junction of irrelevance!!
.....and only because Herc is a big fan of this pile of dog shit!!
That is all. As you were. -
...the cut and paste, with Nikki Finke's box office report, well, when an important film has opened, or when there is an important box office race going on, and I always give credit, where credit is due, and encourage people to view her site, as implied with others, and their articles, by giving them credit.As for my long held views about Dollhouse? You just refuse to give me credit, and are using misdirection about the cut and paste article, to focus others away from that truth, the fact that I called Dollhouse correctly. People, the vast majority of Joss fans, hated the show, or were disappointed in it, even if they liked it, before they, the producers and writers of the series, gave Echo a personality...that we, as viewers, could get familiar with, and return to each week, and even root for as a hero, and villains to root against. If they had done that by the end of episode 1, season 1, or a few episodes into the first season, they might just have a hit right now, as critics and fans, are now celebrating the new tweaks to the show, along the lines of what I have proposed for a year now!!! The very same changes that I was booed for here in the AICN Talkbacks, repeatedly for, and for so long? And not one of you is man, or woman enough to admit it, and say..."Hey, the guy did stick to his guns, despite the opposition, and name calling by others who disagreed with him. He called it right!"
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"The very same changes that I was booed for daring to suggest, here in the AICN Talkbacks, repeatedly for, and for so long?"
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isn't the only one refusing to give you credit; other institutions probably are as well.
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That either. The Buffy comics are pure shite and lets not forget how bad the last 2 years of Buffy were. Storylines that had no continuity, Whedon ripping off his old work in episodes, Interesting devolpments happening of screen, The destruction of Willow's interesting charachter arch about her lust for power and insecurities infavour of a drug metaphor which for me was the worst. And lets not forget his obsession with high school years. Joss Whedon tends to get a very easy ride by fanboys in the Internet and the weaknesses in his writing are always ignored or blamed on somone else. Still I heard that they are going to be making Game of Thrones into a TV series with Sean Bean that should be cool, but I doubt Herc will ever mention cause its not Joss Whedon.
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...sure. Whatever you say. You knew the truth. You were the only one. Can't believe everyone denied you. Persecuted you. Glad you've been redeemed.
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...but I was not the only one, just the most vocal, and the first, as far as I can tell, from the many posts from fans, and articles from the media, that I have read online...and elsewhere. I was roundly crusified for it, and still am being crucified?
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...to Samson. I still love you anyway, although you've thrown me under the bus as much as anyone can do such a thing to another human being.
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Do you need money for a ticket? Cause I'll borrow you some to get you a one way to Anywherebuthere, USA.
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Been torrenting the everlovin' fuck out of the series since September, so after I finish Lost S5 in a week or more gonna dive into Dollhouse S2. I watched the first season that way, and it plays better back to back, none of this week-to-week shit. Hell, does anyone on the planet even watch shows week to week anymore? I can do that for Lost and 24, only cause I love those shows so much. That's it.
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...because George R. R. Martin is a jack-ass.
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...now that the show's quality is obvious to everyone without a lump of dog shit for a brain.
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Kai Mahgra, it's been a while, but for old times sake: Fuck. You. That is all. Media Messiah, you called nothing. Period. While you bitched and moaned about 'relatable characters' and writing 101, you were simply wrong. While some viewers with short attention spans had issues with this, those who actually paid attention know that it was important to start where they did in order to get to the point we are now. You wanted to turn the show into a boring retread of Alias. Every single one of your ideas was moronic and showed a complete lack of depth, complexity, or even a remote understanding of what the show was actually about. So no, you don't get 'credit.' And yet you keep coming back here looking for validation. Therapy's still an option. You're not going to find what you're so desperately looking for here.
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to a person with such a God Complex. It's tantamount to handing a baby a box of razor blades. It's for his own good, really.
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D'House starts now (for me).
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My wife and I look at each other and say, "Wow." Then we sigh with the realization that so many people are missing out on one of the most original shows on TV, roll over and angry sleep.
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I think Echo has midichlorians.
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that Echo - and Alpha? - were different at a physical level and not just because they were just "spunky".
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It's a "wookie in handcuffs" plan.
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Don't wound Enver's junk.
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Victopher's back!!!!
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Processing Saunders as Cylde.
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to Topher thinking Ivy was stealing his inappropriate startches. Nice fit to to futhar clueage.
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More lesbian subtext that won't be confirmed because it's not canon!
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.....great to see you here. Still supporting pile o'shit crap loser shows from that Fartmaster Whedon, and shamelessly perpetually pimped here by his personal buttboy Herc, I see. And by fartmaster I mean, that anyone could fart out something of equal quality to what he claims to create as entertainment. Any wonder that yet another Whedon Opus is getting cancelled,....................yet again? While the rest of the world doesn't know or even care that it existed to begin with?
I just thought I'd do my due diligence and drop by on behalf of the rest of the planet that has more than half a brain, and let you Whedon pipe-packers know that ......we still don't care about your crap show.
On the flip side, those Dollhouse DVD boxsets should make excellent doorstops and maybe even a matching set to go with the Firefly boxset that you use as coasters. And hey, who knows, maybe years from know after all you Whedon knob-polishers have spent all your piggy bank savings on all the many Dollhouse series collections (what's that? There's only one? Oh shoot) and the director's cut (hahahahahahahahaha), some stupid studio suit will come up with the genius idea of making a full length movie that will bomb spectacularly at the Box Office like that other pile of crap Serenity. But only after you Whedonevangalists crow for months and months how it will be the greatest movie ever and the next star wars in the making.
aaaah, Good times. Good Times. -
about Topher. Boyd bad.
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of Echo grabbing the two timelines and making them one.
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have the cojones to finish the job." Boyd checks out his own package. Hee.
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everyone paired up, two by two.
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Boyd is crackers. What a way to send to commercial...
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in me says 'yes'."
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means he'd rather not have any more brains splattered on him, thanks.
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I knew what was going to happen. Madeline went out with a failure but Mellie ended up with a win.
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Ballard for once, please don't be a dumbass..
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Ballard & Echo's fight better. Lots of flying hair though. Pretty.
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DUMBASS!!!
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Topher with the win!!!
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Bittersweet, indeed. But as Dark Horse's Buffy Season 8 flub taught us this week - once somethings out there; you can't take it back. Very fucking timely, that.
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Not as twisty as last week - a bit corny in some places too - but they tied things up in a nice package for E2.
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What the hell...did Whedon fuck your mother on your "I am Legend" themed bed set or something? Or is it just that you're still in the 5th grade, which I think was the last time I actually heard someone use the term "Fartmaster" in a conversation. I think that's probably more likely, since I also think the last time I saw anyone confuse the words "now" and "know" in print was elementary school as well...at least, the last time someone could fuck up junior grammar like that and not be totally humiliated by doing so.
Here's a thought: although the internet has enabled any puling moron to whack it while reading himself in print, it doesn't mean that posting in a forum conveys any form of critical credibility whatsoever. It must really piss you off that television critics with far more expertise and critical experience than you appear in mass media sources that actually mean something and praise Joss Whedon. Makes you run right to the only media outlet that would print your fucking drivel, doesn't it? Any jerk-off, know-nothing, ass-clown who actually thinks box office returns have anything to do with aesthetic quality pretty much disqualifies himself from serious critical consideration right there.
Freedom of speech ensures that you will always be able to rant and spew here on AICN...thus proving some people don't deserve freedom of speech because your exercise of it makes my balls itch. So please...shut your pie-hole before I shove a DVD collection of the cancelled shitshow that was T:SCC down your ignorant fucking throat.
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next week FOX will be showing the Haiti telethon instead of the Dollhouse series finale...so what happens now?...will FOX screw the viewers over again by never airing it or will they just air it the following week?
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Watch the Two hour Smallville movie then when the show sucks again, I can finish Dollhouse the next week.
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The last two eps will run well into each other. But remember it's not next week, it's the week after for E2.
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thanks...I just read on another site that it has been pushed back but will be airing an hour earlier on the 29th...they also said this about the finale..."The series finale of Dollhouse is wonderful & bittersweet. It does what a Whedon finale does: It will make you miss the show a lot more"
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is @maskedscheduler. It's Preston Beckham, VP of FOX scheduling.
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on his cell? Whoever it is seems to know everything that's going on.
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to security?
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I kinda feel bad for Boyd, but not really.
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does that mean they'll actually air epitaph 1 before it? or is it a two hour episode?
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many wowments...amys nice lil round booty and lookin good in the suit...boyd in the end was very bittersweet...to bad for mell...the actin by enver...will miss the show...and echo got a rogue thing goin next ep
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What a boring, normal episode. This might as well have been 24.
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Some good things but seemed quite pedestrian after last week. I'm hoping the rollercoaster gives us that big peak next ep instead of just coasting into home.
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Mellie's self sacrifice, Boyd's motives revealed, Victor as Topher, Topher saves the day, Echo is the cure and Boyd's final fate. Yeah, real pedestrian right there.
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You'll be my future ex-wife...yet!!! Just cut-out the romance and get down to what really counts in a romance--the cruelty. You are the real life Adelle, with a machine gun, at that, and I am enjoying every minute of it, especially when you kick me...when I am down!!! I can't wait for the spankings!!!!
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Sorry, but it was. I've liked it up til now, even if it hasn't been as good as it should in these final days, but that was one rushed piece of shit episode which also screamed "BUDGET". Boyd's death was a bit sad (even if completely unnecessary, he didn't need to die for that place to go boom) but if anyone was hoping for evidence to show how Boyd = Rossum was a masterstroke a long time in the making, this episode well and truly put paid to that. What a shitty last minute twist with no thought put into it at all. At this point I'm not even inclined to bother with Epitaph Two. Can't imagine how it could make up for that disaster I just watched.
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Your "good riddance" comment is the funniest thing I have ever read on this site. Thanks, buddy. I really needed the laugh.
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Almost heartbreaking with Boyd's 'try to do my best' line. Faith vs. Fred. What Whedon fan wouldn't love that? And, my god, if I closed my eyes I'd think that Enver actually was Topher. He's so freakin' good. I hope he gets crazy work after this show, and not on some dumbass procedural. And I knew Mellie would buy it. I knew it. But I still screamed when it happened. Loved her. Also, sick and sad that she went out as Mellie. This show was simply amazing and can't wait for Epitaph Two. And I learned a long time ago to ignore Trollmaster Kai. He's such an ignorant shitbag who can't get over the fact that people love Whedon.
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You have to come at it from my perpective. I think every episode of 24 is pedestrian :)
Look, it's not that I thought it was a bad episode. I enjoyed it. It had a classic plotting structure (with callbacks!) But the momentum that they were gaining sort of leveled out for me. I thought the close-up drama shots were very well done but the action sequences didn't quite get there. And because I telegraphed the Mellie suicide - even if it was just seconds before it happened - I was still expecting it. That didn't happen to me last week with the Bennett head shot & the Boyd reveal. The only thing that tugged on me emotionally was the Echo/Boyd scene at the end. It was probably my own expectations but I'd hoped this episode would have felled me completely. -
reverse physcology doesn't work on me so pretending you like it when I'm mean to you doesn't mean shit. I learnt that in Media Therapy.
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So I don't think the admins care about that sort of thing.
Besides, he still doesn't get the idea that just because he can find someone who agreed with him, that it makes him right.
Applying that logic, there were plenty of people who agreed with me that he's clinically insane and in dire need of medical intervention. Therefore....
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So we can either infer he's watching it in his own timezone or he thought it was milding disappointing too.
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You would think there would be at least a smoke trail or a couple of broken windows, but nope, just Echo with some soot smudge on her face. Nobody else apart from the Dollhouse crew even noticed.
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...as just a matter of course. It is just natural--so, I wasn't pretending, I was just going with the flow, as all men learn to do, eventually. I mean, a woman is going to be mean to a man...no matter what, and no matter how charming he is, or not--she is going to bust his chops, and love it, anyway! I just appreciate the fact that you are being upfront with putting me in my place, or yours, instead of making me wait, a year or two. PS: I am too clever to waste my time, or yours, by employing reverse psychology. You see, the faint is in...just being Zen enough to accept one's fate, and being thankful for it. Why fight nature--when you can win, by not fighting the natural order? Go with the wind, and the waves, and you become like them. If you wish to go through a mountain, just go under it, around it, or over it. The mountain still stands, and so do you--and...everybody wins. You are the mountain, and by going with the flow of your nature to exact retribution, by, in this case, not budging, well, I simply budge. I sincerely apologize for whatever I did to offend you, Buffy.
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Jan 15, 2010 11:47:05 PM CST
I Am 35 Minutes In To This Episode, And It's Brilliiant...
by media messiah
...so far. I have often said that "Man On The Street" was/is the best episode of Dollhouse, but, so far, this is completely blowing that episode away!!! Hopefully, it will continue!!!!! This is better than most movies!
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Jan 15, 2010 11:58:49 PM CST
The Completion Of The Firefly/Serenity Story Arc: Topher Is Simo
by media messiah
Topher is Simon, Echo is River, Boyd is Book, Claire is Kylie, and Adelle, I suspect, is a character who was yet to be introduced on Firefly/Serenity. As far as the others, I have no idea, as of yet, as to who...represents, whom?
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The old Eliza has finally come back to us! Her acting is back on par with her work on Buffy, and the writing and direction of this episode...was elite! If they could only keep the show on this level every week, and if I was a Fox exec, I would un-cancel the show. Wow!!!
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Not so twisty and surprising. Saw the Mellie thing coming, Boyd's last scene coming, etc. One has to expect, though, that Boyd had a backup, and to think that there was not also a backup of Topher's tech specs seems a little naive of them. Topher's original hand-drawn schematics weren't even there. Did they really think that blowing up one building would end it when Whiskey-Clyde says "I've got bodies waiting in 20 other houses"?
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That had to be one of the worst edited hours of television I've every watched. That was appalling.
The story itself was rather underwhelming and unremarkable. Hopefully the finale provides some legitimate closure. -
It helps that "Man on the Street" was officially Joss Whedon's first episode. If anyone remembers, Joss literally put the production on hold for two weeks to retool the scripts after Fox ordered a major rewrite of the first half of the show (effectively killing the Pilot- which was damn good by the way- Disc 4 of Season 1). At any rate, anyone judging the first half of Season 1 harshly should not that was Fox fucking about with the series, demanding more purely Dushku-centric stand alone episodes that only worked tiny bits of the bigger story in. Once The Man on The Street aired, the flood gates were wide open and it was Whedon and Co. at full speed, doing the kind of show they always intended to air. It's absolutely worth jumping on and catching up for anyone who hasn't had the chance regardless of the Fox asshattery for the first five or six Season 1 eps.
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Jan 16, 2010 2:11:03 AM CST
Media Messiah- Adelle, in relation to Firefly- If I had to guess
by shadowvoyd
Might actually be The Operative. Boyd was definitely a "Bizarro" Book, but with all those pesky questions Mal had about Book's past, I think The Operative would be a close analogue to both Book's past and the analogue to an "evil" character with conviction set adrift and on a road to evolution. At least that's my take.
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......nothing says a good time on a Friday evening like dropping in on a Whedon-fanboy circle-jerk-off, and interrupting them just as Fox is bending them over and gives them the business over their favorite Whedon show du jour getting cancelled.........once again - and then riling them up with the simplest of nudges, while reminding them how magnificently loserific the Whedonverse really is.
oisin5199 knows this,right buddy? I mean he says it's best to ignore me, and then he goes on giving me a shout-out in every one of his posts every single opportunity he gets.
You just can't quit me Oisi-baby, can you, kuchi-koo? I know. I can relate; I also can't help myself poking you guys with a stick and watching you, in particular, try to act like it doesn't matter, only to then turn around and respond to me like clockwork.
Fun Times. Fun times.
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but since it's been edited by the same person throughout the series, that just doesn't make sense. I put the failed action scenes on the director. There was some nice tension shots, especially when guns were shoved in peoples faces, but there was no follow through. And the dolly shots were practically non-existant. There better be a looooong tracking shot in E2 or else I'll be really disappointed.
And flare shots. I must have one flare shot. -
you were in a Whedony TB? You are going to have to do *much* better than that. Have you met Media Messiah? He can run circles around you without even trying.
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Sure her acting in between doll personalities was pretty weak. As the girl says in the review some posts up she doesn't do subtlety well. But I have to say the last 6-8 episodes her acting jumped about 10 notches up. I cringed during some first season episodes when she was on the screen. The last 2 months? She was fantastic in the role for the most part. Also I want to bang the crap out of her so that may make me a little bit biased heh.
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Ah, but you see, I actually have a life to live - a real one, I mean.
Whedon talkbacks (and hair-trigger fanboys) are nothing more than a pleasant distraction; an entertaining dalliance. Nothing more.
Besides which, spending all that time with Whedon groupies is certifiably assured to make one's brain dissolve into a slobbering goo of blathering stupidity;...... as you might well know. Or not.
But trust me it does. -
Dats good bait! nom nom nom
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This episode? It was alright. I agree it wasn't the big send off we were all expecting. I think that Boyd didn't get enough screen time to 'sell' the motivation for his character. So he brought them all there to save them, because he loved(?!) them. Interesting idea, but there was no follow up. The ending was a nice touch, having him wiped AND killing him off was good. But the episode kind of just jumped from scene to scene with little flow or suspense. And I've got to agree with Buffywrestling, the fight scenes were badly staged. All in all, not bad, but not great either. Here's hoping next week's is better.
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the week after next. Obviously.
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You're the one who apparently can't tell the difference between the words "now" and "know" in your first post to Oisin...I'd be sort of humiliated by such a basic grammar error. If I understood the difference between the two, that is.
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...right, Adelle is the Operative!!! Great thinking!!!! She fits his storyline perfectly, so it has to be her that is carrying the remainder of his thread?
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I think in some lesser way, Inara and Mal...are embodied by Sierra and Victor. And, I think that there is a split between the characters though, because, I also assume that parts of that same storyline were given to Ballard and Mellie. So, the only two characters from Firefly, that haven't been accounted for, in terms of furtherance in Dollhouse, are Zoe, and Jayne, unless I got it wrong, and they are Victor and Sierra? If true, that would make Mal and Inara...strictly, Ballard and Mellie.
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Eliza running from an explosion, to then saunter around the corner to join the group. And then they all claim victory because they'd blown up the server in the basement. Umm, the company owns the entire building - did it not occur to any of them that the schematics to Topher's toy might be sitting in a file on someone's desk? What about the "team of engineers" who worked on the damn thing? Sure, they couldn't get it to work, but they got it to the point where it could be made functional with one slight tweak. We've seen over the past 2 seasons that the Dollhouse conspiracy involves a lot of people. It's not just one man behind the curtain. The amount of time Boyd spent in LA, looking after Echo, and then being head of security, proves that Rossum can operate without him. One burned-out basement and blown up server, along with a "so-mysterious that no-one's ever seen him" missing founder, is a set-back to Rossum, but hardly enough to bring the whole thing down. Plus, as has been mentioned above, with one co-founder who has in reserve "20 bodies in 20 houses", you don't think the other one also made the same backup plan?
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Not at all! I cansee the big surprising factor in making him the Big Bad, but that's all for nothing. His motivations? To extract spinal fluid from Echo? That's good enough to pretend to be just Echo's handler? To have himself many times almost killed? Instead of just having her in a lab, as a rat, without the all too dangerous stuff - besides almost getting her killed during her assignments? I call that nonsense! That's what's almost killing entertainment for me... Didn't really work out. Some Alpha twist could have worked better - for me...
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Whedon. In order to have his big moment he will change any continuity,Plots or charachterisation with not thought to get it. Its why in OMWF Xander summons Sweet which does not make a bit of sense but he has Xander do it.
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in other writer it would be classed as hack writing of the lowest kind but not with Joss oh no he is a genuies!!
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...how did Boyd know from the beginning that Echo was special?
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in the flashbacks when she meets Boyd, he talks about having access to blood tests around the work and gains her attention when he talks about a certain disease(forget which). so my guess is he saw her blood work at some point and that told them something about her.
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Boyd used the handling phrase on Caroline toward the end of the big bad reveal episode, so, I am assuming that was a foreshadowing that Caroline is also a Doll, not just her persona as Echo. Which means, we have never really met the persona Caroline was before, being Echo or Caroline? Hence, if that is true, then Boyd has been experimenting on her for years, and thus knew that she could break through her imprinting, the reason why he took special interest in her.
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...Bouncys explanation makes more sense (even though it seems far fetched cuz then it would imply Rossum knew about the spinal fluid ability to unimprint people)...also I thought when he was talkin bout the blood work, he was just sayin that they could get to her cousin, forcin Caroline to work wit Rossum...I dunno, motives were sketchy to me lol...and MM when Topher hit Boyd wit the device, I thought Boyd was a doll and felt extra relieved...too bad that wasnt the case lol...ANOTHER QUESTION FOLKS, um, if Boyd is head of Rossum, was he actin against them (by tryin to get the fluid so his family could been unimprintable) or was he workin wit them but just didnt trust them just in case if they go imprint crazy on the world? to me it felt like he was doin evil things to save his family and to leverage the playing field by havin the fluid, so they could up go against Rossum...I dunno, stuff seems rushed in hindsight (still a good ep)
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...is it just me, or was Boyds death the most sad, bittersweet death of any big bad from any show/movie? I cannot ever remember carin about the bad guy dying like that (I had to rewatch it, such a great scene)...either Lennix is a great actor or the writers are great writers or I was just really attached to Boyd (he was so damn cool especially when he mentioned why they hung out wit Boyd lol, i never got it either)...Ill miss ya Boyd, more than anyone else (even though Ill miss Topher and Adelles dialogue more)...to Boyd...the greatest big bad ever!
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Most of you people are adverse to entertainment. Why not enjoy yourself a little? Sit back, relax, and have fun with the ride. It doesn't have to be perfect to be entertaining.
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...9 good episodes now, including last night's. If Joss and his team had only imagined the initial start-up episodes, the first 9, as being as good as the 9 that I am talking about, he would have a had a hit series--and of course, Boyd's motivations would have played better as the plotting would have been much tighter, in terms of getting us to this current moment in the story arc. The original pilot, and Episode 2--season 1, which featured the hunt, as well as Man On the Street, and Epitaph One, are really the highlights of last season--oh, and that one where Echo was married to the guy from King of Queens, that, and 5 episodes from this season. Really, I have said it before, and I'll say it again, Joss needs to take the best episodes of this show, and turn it into a mini series. Let's forget the other episodes that amounted to just a lot of fat. Since, I assume that the last episode will be great, lets just say the show had 10 to 11 great episodes, out of 26. That is 10 to 11 great hours, that Joss and company have to work with, and if they pair it down to that, and re-purpose it, again, as a mini-series, I think they will receive rave reactions from so many people around the world, that it will blow their collective minds. I still think that this series can be the basis of something truly great. Now, some have suggested a remake or reimaging sometime in the near future, however, I believe if they bring it back as a sequel series, it can be the hit that it needed to be, originally, but, the old series can really shine in terms of informing those who haven't seen the show, about the rich possibilities, yet to be promised in a follow-up venture, if given a shiny re-fit. That said, the show--seasons one and two, in their current form, just can't do that, as it would only lead to the same audience confusion, that happened before, with many viewers being lost along the way and or bored, and disappointed, as the first half of the last season, and the first half of this season--just don't hold-up, for the most part, as presented. Again, cut-out the fat, and get to the good stuff--and leave the less successful episodes to the DVD box sets for collectors, and series purests. One last thing, I keep thinking about how the series could have worked better if Echo was introduced as a thinking pro-active hero, almost right-out the gate of the story, showing her discover her circumstance, and fight against it. Things would have popped better. Maybe if they re-edited the show as a two hour tele-movie or DVD film, and two hour sequel films, it will work better? This would be in place of the mini series idea I was discussing. I recall Gerry Anderson doing this for his series back in the 80s, and they played very well on HBO. Anyway, it could be a good business plan for Dollhouse. First release them on DVD...and then air them on Premium cable, and basic cable, as well as in syndication, sequentially.
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Rapist: Relax and enjoy it. Don't fight the ride!!!
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No dis meant!!!
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They finally gave us a truly great big bad for this series, in the form of Boyd, and then, they killed him off, and so sudden, so...soon? Why not wait until the last episode, at least?
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You are missing all the fun!
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...thats what threw me for a loop cuz I didnt see him dyin in this ep...I come to these articles but dont read the actual article (i dont like bein spoiled wit ep info, guest stars, etc) so I thought he would be in the actual final ep (I forgot it would be an epitaph 2)...so that threw me for a loop......and last night ep felt like the season finale (Fox, you can still pick it back up! you fuckin idiots!) and next ep is the series finale...when i realize what was happenin, I felt like I was watchin the Dawsons Creek finale again (lol yes, I LOVE that show, its my most guiltiest pleasure) and then have the years later finale to wrap up everythin...Fox, just dont air E2 and pick this show the fuck back up! Im literally so angry right now lol
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...at first, she looked meh-attractive, then around the time she got jungle fever wit Gunn, she started to look hot, but was very skinny...then she got scars on her face, and made her look even hotter...then she went crazy on Topher, makin her look even hotter...then she put on a suit and looked even hotter...Amy, youre my hottest skinny as a pole girl ever...and your ass was lookin pretty rotund last night too...why couldnt she had been Echo (no diss to Eliza Fox, but Amy has TV-award-winning-potential)...
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They lost me with their college years, but they had some great acting and writing on that show, many of the people on the show now have great careers in post. And like you, in terms of Dollhouse, many times, most of the time, I don't read the articles for fear of seeing a spoiler. Last night's episode did feel like the official end. I think the remainder is just their way of explaining Epitaph One.
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...youre officially my best friend on this site lol...but yea, college years wasnt great but still better than any other post-high school shows...and yep, we got Pacey on a cool show (prob the only good hourlong after all these last season shows go off), Jenn became a hollywood drama actress, Joey gettin syringed Cruises semen...only one not doin good is Dawson (starrin in siffy movies), and I think he is the voice on those droid commercials...and I think Dawson is the character I relate to the most (since he is an aspiring writer/director and a die hard hopeless romantic)
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I find it a little funny that you come here to speak for the 'rest of the planet with half a brain' by passing along their method. except, outside of the internet, i'd say 97% of the planet doesn't know or give a damn who whedon is. they're the average TV viewer. YOU don't have the right to speak for the planet, because you're not one of them--you know whedon, pretty well too, considering you seem to hate him with a passion. that makes you an incredibly lame person who cares enough about whedon to drop in an internet message board to bash him, while clearly showing you have no clue what's going on in the show. so, please continue to educate us about how the rest of the planet thinks about whedon... but you're not one of them. NORMAL people don't take the time out of their day to visit a site like this, and on top of that, take the time out of their lives to jump in to a message board of a site like this solely to talk trash about something you have no clue about. on the flip side, it is VERY NORMAL to visit a website like this and post on the message boards to discuss what they ARE FANS OF. Many people feel compelled to do that, in large part because people in their real lives don't watch a show that they wish to discuss. Only real losers feel compelled to do what you do, and furthermore, could not imagine what, at all, you get by posting nothing of substance, fueled only by a hate that manifests itself only on the internet, which makes it pretty damn easy to see you are compensating for something missing in your life... perhaps, a life, itself??? (--MM nod)
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what is considered good writing today is not how kevin anderson used to write... it became gimmicky and tired--teenagers who all talk like 27 year old grad student idealists who are cynical, jaded, wise beyond their years, and psuedo-philosophers / psychologists.its like fiction written during the classical period--like writing with omniscient narrators, or getting away with devoting ALL of the first four pages of a book with nothing but flowery language that describes the beauty of vast stretches of rolling hills and weeping willow trees and all that garbage--no one gets away with that shit anymore.
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u guys act so knowlegeable when u write long, overly long paragraphs about this and that and the other thing. then out pops something stupider than all of that...."it seems a bit rushed to me" ...wtf ? ur kidding correct ? joss had to cram what would hve played out over a 5 season plan into 5 or 6 episodes, so duh, its going to seem rushed. ..im sure the surprising reveal of boyd as head of rossum to his going out with a bang death would have taken a whole season to play out, perhaps the final 5th season...who knows what would have happened if FOX didnt screw joss the way NBC is screwing conan....
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kind of sits wrong with me. I mean, I guess his original personality could return, ie, Epitaph 2 sneak peek, but if he is really wiped, having him murdered like that is just ookie. I know that part of the series rumination is that identity supercedes imprinting, as in, the soul is the same no matter the imprint laid on top. Mellie's death was also too "plot" convenient- a neat and tidy way to get rid of her and give Paul some pathos. I'm also somewhat confused over the partners angle, I mean, there were two right? And one tricked the other into making a meek doll version of himself, and then got himself bannished to the Attic... Refresh me. Did he escape the Attic? Why is it the "meek" copy has 20 copies? Was it mentioned that Boyd had copies as well? To tell you the truth, I was kind of hoping Saunders was actually an even more rouge version of Bennett; who would have killed her crippled sellout self out of sheer disgust. Ah, well, it was an intriguing attempt. Joss, I hope you've finally learned your lessons about FOX.
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I want to point out that this means that Epitaph 1 is no longer canon (and therefore doesn't need to be shown).
E1 now takes place in a similar but alternate reality. The reality were all of the actions (or equivalents) took place over 4-5 years. Where Victor was realized from the Dollhouse much later than mid-season 2. Where Adelle seems much more responsible for the final outcome.
If you look at E1 now, all of the outline points are there but E1's flashbacks got to those points in different ways and obviously on a different timescale.
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and kill each other dead.
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It was mentioned (about E1) that we should not take the events we see there as gospel. That they could be filtered through other peoples memories (like the Bennet/Caroline scene was filtered through Bennet's memory).
I think the episode still stands. We just perceive it differently now. -
(A FX exec, last name) Landgraf, says that he has had discussions with Joss Whedon's reps. He is supposed to have lunch with Joss in the next few weeks. (!!!) #TCA
8 minutes ago from web
Televisionary (on Twitter)
-(source--Televisionary)-Jace Lacob -
canonicity -- never heard that term before, actually. canonistic? canonical? you've been canonized.
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Look it up.
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Cause episode 2 features Lucy Lawless as you've never seen her before. Mmmmmmmmm. :)
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(.)(.)...Enough said!!!
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during the fucking scene. Watching her getting fingered by a topless black slave girl was pretty frakkin sweet. Who knew Romans had fluffers for the marriage bed?
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I was joking about the 'canon' words, i had zero doubt it was a real word--didn't need to look it up... just sayin i hadn't heard it before... also, I've downloaded the first two spartacus episodes and was hoping i'd hear if they were worth my time or not on this site.
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It looks like it might be worth a look. Based on the first two episodes, it's no ROME. It's desperately copying the styles of 300, and the dialog of Gladiator, just on your TV.
It's also even more in love with the slo-mo fighting style introduced by 300, than the show Legend of the Seeker (which was pretty in love with slo-mo already).
Where Spartacus is better, is that it's got adult levels of language/nudity and violence. That's absolutely crucial if you're going to have a show about gladiators and that.
In terms of gore, the blood is frequently very bad CGI. It helps if you think of it in comic terms, like the original 300, and not in realistic terms.
Same goes for some of the fighting.
If you're familiar with the Kirk Douglas movie or the actual story of Spartacus, you'll probably find the first two episodes very slow in that they don't move the plot forward much at all.
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But mainly because the Victor as Mr Ambrose scene in the kitchen is probably my favourite scene on the show. The look on Topher's face when Victor explains who he is is great.
On another point, Dollhouse serves up its most conventional, workman-like episode where the baddie is killed and everyone goes all heroic and Media Messiah loved it. That IS funny. -
FOX has screwed you AGAIN! Get it? When will it sink in???I would have kept watching but I didn't want to invest in Dollhouse because 1.) it was Fox (again!), 2.) Friday night timeslot of death,(again!) 3.) Fox(again) wanted something other than the pilot to start off the series (shades of Firefly, *sob*).I may get this series on DVD, I dunno. I'm just a little jaded is all.You suck FOX!
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I actually forget the character's 'real name.' But yeah, she was this show's Tara - the sweet, innocent, empathetic character who must play her part and get sacrificed. So I saw it coming a mile away. As the show was reaching its endgame, I was thinking there's no way she's going to survive the episode. But still when it came, as soon as the 'two flowers' thing was brought up, I was like, no, no. Don't do it. And I still screamed when it happened. That's the sign of strong characters that you connect to - that you get upset at their death even when you know it's coming - even when she didn't die as 'herself' but as Mellie. And yeah, Boyd's murder was SUPPOSED to be ookie. We were meant to feel ambivalent and uneasy with how he went out, which is what made the Boyddoll (wait a sec - boy doll) scenes so disturbing and such an interesting way to deal with him.
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his death was cool. I'd have preferred it if Ballard was forced to kill Mellie instead of her offing herself...but maybe that would be too dark, even for a Whedon show
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[01.17.10 - 11:29 AM]
WHEDON, FX'S LANDGRAF SET FOR CHAT
By Brian Ford Sullivan (TFC)
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LOS ANGELES (thefutoncritic.com) -- Joss Whedon fans always ask why he doesn't go to cable. They just might get their wish.
"Actually his representatives called and scheduled a lunch, I think I'm supposed to have lunch with Joss in the next two or three weeks," FX president John Landgraf told reporters when asked about working with the cult-favorite producer during the network's executive session at the TCA this morning.
"And I have enormous respect for him," he continued. "And by the way, if you look at Shawn Ryan who created 'The Shield' and is running 'Terriers,' Shawn learned at the feet of Joss Whedon, the Joss Whedon school. And Carlton Cuse by the way, as well. So I don't really know Joss, but I'm really looking forward to meeting him. I love his stuff."
Whedon's "Dollhouse" wraps its two season run on Friday, January 29 at 8:00/7:00c on FOX.
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Jan 17, 2010 6:36:21 PM CST
Rome And Spartacus: Just Rip-offs Of The Movie Caligula
by media messiah
Caligula did this 31 years ago. The raw nudity, the sex, the harsh language, the violence, etc. Hollywood likes to bad mouth that film, because it was made by a pornographer, Bob Guccione of Penthouse Magazine, but, it was actually a good movie, and judging by Rome and the series Spartacus, he was decades ahead of his time.
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Look at it this way. 1) He told us he had been specifically working on a vaccine against imprinting, which Echo made possible. 2) He showed us that he is a brilliant actor with his shocking betrayal. 3) His fiery 'death' happened off-screen. 4) The ending, and Epitaph 1 shows that the plan obviously didn't work, for some reason.Doesn't it seem at all possible that Boyd was dosed up on a prototype dose of the vaccine (the fact that they know how the spinal fluid works and that it acts as a vaccine means it must have been tested at some point, surely?), pretended to be a doll (not that hard) and then removed the bomb once everyone left. Obviously SOMEthing exploded, but was it Boyd and the critical lab?
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...to me! All we saw was an explosion, no proof of death? And what is with the evacuation of all of those people? It would seem to me, they should have died with everyone else? It just made the scene look softer than it should have been?
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MM said: "Caligula did this 31 years ago. The raw nudity, the sex, the harsh language, the violence, etc."That could very well be true but the statement should read: "Caligula did the raw nudity, the sex, the harsh language and violence 31 years ago." no: 'this' because it implies the show is a clone of caligula, which MAY be true, but just because of sex/nudity/violence and whatever is in spartacus you can't call it a clone on that basis. unless, of course, you weren't trying to say that the show is a clone of caligula, in which case disregard this whole post.
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...that Caligula inspired this particular take of those ancient times, which Hollywood was so very afraid to tackle, and Guccione was attacked for presenting a largely historically accurate depiction of that era, and yet, Rome and Spartacus are receiving cheers and critical praise for, in essence, repeating Guccione's work? I am just talking about the hypocrisy of it all. Guccione was a Hollywood outsider, who dared to be different and challenge the norm, and he and his movie were trashed for it, and now we can see from the likes of Rome and Spartacus that he was well ahead of his time!!!
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Boyd had to spend time watching Echo because he needed to see if she would overcome the mindwipes. He knew she was biologically different, but he did not know without observation whether she would be immune or not.
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Firstly, Caligula was criticized (rightly) because the director filmed all of these hard core porn scenes with a bunch of porn stars who didn't appear in the main movie. He filmed the sequences on set, but off hours. He then interspersed the scenes into the rest of the movie and without the actors knowledge. It's not so much that Caligula is a hard core movie, it's that it's a movie, which features scenes of hard core porn.
The director was ahead of his time, in the sense that he was like Tyler Durden.
That's a big difference from having scenes of nudity and simulated sex in your tv series, especially when they further the plot/atmosphere.
If you actually bothered to watch ROME, you'd never have thought "Oh this is like that Malcom McDowell movie, Caligula". The two were completely different.
And if you bother to watch Spartacus, again, you won't be thinking Caligula. You'll think 300. And in a couple of scenes, possibly the Passion of the Christ (because of the way the lead stands around looking whipped and bloodied). -
Production technicalities, aside, we all know those stories, but it doesn't matter about Guccione adding the porn, or not, the movie flows as if the sex scenes were pre-planned. And what is the difference between porn and simulated sex, anyway, in the context of the film, it had the same import of simulated sex, and the simulated sex in Rome and Spartagus plays the same way--it is interchangable with the hardcore porn that was featured in Caligula, or the Euro filmmakers of today who are now placing porn in their independent, so-called, art films.The point of the matter is, the resulting "Adult" atmospherics in Rome and Spartagus were inspired by Caligula, though no one involved with those productions, or the industry...as a whole, is willing to admit it: Can't give an outsider like Guccione credit, even if he is...dead?
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Jan 18, 2010 2:26:01 AM CST
Media Messiah- Adelle, in relation to Firefly- If I had to guess
by shadowvoyd
She very well could be kind of carrying that thread. If it were television, that exchange at the end of Serenity between Mal and The Operative screamed "reoccurring character with future series regular potential" behind it. And if anyone feels like throwing 60-80 million at Joss for another film (he could swing it on a Hellboy budget), we might even see the actual Operative story evolve. Of course... Chiwetel Ejiofor might cost more this time around...
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You need to widen your frame of reference. Togas and tits does not automatically equal Caligula.
And like I said, if you had watched either ROME or SPARTACUS, the last thing you'd be thinking of is Caligula.
ROME had comparitively little sex scenes, and I don't remember any of them being gratuitous. Rather than being inspired by some crappy movie from decades back, they simply reflected the current adult-levels of television which are permitted on cable. -
...didn't stop Chloe Sevigny from winning a Golden Globe for "Big Love" last night, so my point is, the line between porn and simulated sex is becoming so paper thin that transgressions like the "Brown Bunny" scene no longer even negatively impact the careers of actresses, or actors. BTW, we all know that word is, that the sex scene in "Angel Heart" between Micky Rourke and Lisa Bonet is rumored to be real, but he still got his Golden Globe last year, and almost won an Oscar, or how about Billy Bob Thorten and Halle Berry? Strong rumors have it, that the sex scene was real in "Monster's Ball", but that didn't stop Berry from winning an Oscar. Simulated sex, and real onscreen sex, are almost as sleazy as the other, what matters, however, is the content of the drama, interlacing it, and Caligula was a well done film. Rome and Spartagus draw inspiration from that film, whether you wish to admit it, or not.
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and you keep mentioning Guccione as if he was someone who led the way or something... He was the executive producer. Tinto Brass was the director. When Brass was fired, Guccione re-shot six minutes worth of sex scenes and ordered massive re-edits on the film. But 95% of the finished movie was directed by Tinto Brass, just not edited the way he intended. So please, stop talking about Guccione.
Chloe Sevigny won a golden globe. Big deal. Actual porn stars have appeared in movies (even if they haven't been good enough to win awards) for years and years now. Off the top of my head, I can remember Tracy Lords in Blade, those two twins in Cannonball Run, and whats-her-face in Kevin Smiths "Zack and Miri" movie.
So no one is arguing that Hollywood doesn't let you in if you've done (or still do) adult entertainment movies.
Or that actual sex has been filmed in a mainstream movie. "The Lover", many years back was semi-famous for it. Same for "Eyes Wide Shut".
The point remains that on two things, you're absolutely wrong. 1) That Caligula was a well-done movie. (It really wasn't.) 2) Rome and Spartacus drew inspiration from it.
In the same way that your idiotic ramblings made it clear (at the time) that you had yet to see Epitaph One, I'll state here and now that your idiotic ramblings here can only mean you haven't seen ROME or SPARTACUS.
If you had, and if you were at all capable of shame, then you wouldn't continue to insist on something so obviously untrue. -
is like comparing...ah actually fuck it. I can't think of an appropriately retarded analogy. Media Messiah, I suggest you actually go and WATCH Rome, and you'll see what a ridiculous comparison that is. Fucking hell
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there's no use telling MM to actually WATCH rome: he loves to pass judgement based on ZERO knowledge of the topic in question--i've read him critique sherlock holmes based only on what his parents told him about it (also showing how he has no idea who Sherlock, the character, was in the stories) and i've also seen him attempt to prove me wrong by analyzing Dexter without having never seen a single episode.
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Jan 18, 2010 12:11:55 PM CST
"The raw nudity, the sex, the harsh language, the violence, etc.
by big jim
"Caligula did this 31 years ago."They did it, but didn't invent it. Caligula, is an interesting movie, production backstory and all, but not necessarily a good one. I've wondered if the graphic sex scenes were intended to be erotic because to me they didn't come across that way. There's a scene during a feast showing guests eating until they puke, then continuing to chow down. To me the sex scenes were the same - repeated depictions of excessive consumption out of availability rather than desire or need. So in this respect, Rome is nothing like Caligula. The sex scenes in Rome are filled with passion, either loving or angry. They were filled with emotions that were a part of the characters involved. They were part of the story and not, as they often were in Caligula, an extended closeup look at the nameless characters/background performers performing sex acts in the foreground.Rome may owe its existence to a lot of previously filmed material; I don't see Caligula being high on that list. I'd even go so far as to say that Rome owes a lot more to Sex & The City than it does to Caligula.
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EXCEPTIONAL post filled with truth bombs... can't wait to see how MM responds to that, unless he does something extremely out of character (admitting he was wrong) it'll be good entertainment.
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Some enterprising executive out there should just give Joss 40 to 50 million dollars and tell him, to shoot sequels to Serenity, back to back, as one long movie, and on a TV series shooting schedule in order to save money, and split them into seperate films in post. If shot on HD, the cost would be low--and Red Cams are said to be very good, including the 3D Red Cam, since everyone is going 3D, I thought I'd mention that (3D adds an extra 10 million on average to a film's cost, BTW). Now, why am I focused on the shooting schedule, and making that extremely fast? You see, once you have something captured on HD, or film, you can manipulate it in post, anyway you want, including dropping-out backgrounds, adding new backgrounds, fixing the lighting, stunts, etc. It, the captured visuals, live forever, virtually, so one can play with said shots any way they want, and if the studio likes what you have shot, they can choose, in post, to up the effects budget, in order to make the visuals more epic. No matter, the studio would make their money back, whether the film is a success in theaters, or not, thanks to DVD, and Sales to Cable, Pay-Per-View, and Broadcast TV, that is a given, the profits will continue to roll in forever, and with the cast of Firefly/Serenity being better known now, the opening of any sequels is guaranteed to be much higher in terms of box office take.
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Even if that body was destroyed, I would be surprised if he hedn't backed himself up already.
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I don't quite understand why she didn't want to help create a vaccine, but surely her choosing that path leads directly to Epitaph-alypse.
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Big Jim SCHOOLS MM on Rome/Caligula, and what does MM do? Ignores Big Jim and instead starts rambling about what studios should do with whedon and budget... when four out of five of his last posts were about caligula/rome... VINTAGE Media Messiah
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Yes, Sex In The City, the Sopranos, Red Shoe Diaries, Dream On, and other shows like them, paved the way for Rome, but while that may be true, you can bet that somebody in charge of the production of Rome, referenced Caligula to the execs at HBO...as a selling point to get the series started in the first place. Let us not forget, they could have put on this production without the graphic sex, or nudity, but they choose to do it with such activity, again, as a selling point. Yes, they did it for the titillation, not for the drama, and that is what it is all about, sex!About Guccione, I know exactly what he did, but he was the idea man/and money man...for Caligula, for making those changes in terms of bringing in the extra sex shots in the film. I have looked at what critics have said about the film, and their number one gripe, now, more than anything, has switched from the sex--now that social sexual mores have changed, to claiming that the film is too violent, and too cruel--well, if we are talking about violence, and tone of cruelty, that is no more different than Rome? The Romans were ruthless people, and Caligula was the most vicious of them all, at least, in known recorded history. It seems that led was leaking into their, the Romans', main water source, as a result, the Romans were suffering from extreme mental illness, induced by the led contamination. So yes, they were very cruel people as a direct result, and very deranged, at that. Case in point, the Romans use to take women slaves, and or, prisoners, and place them in cages where they were bent over in place, and locked into position. Their genitals were exposed just outside of the cages. This was done in arenas, for thousands of Romans to watch as sport. Male animals like bears and tigers were released into the arena, and they were led to penitrate the female humans with their extremely large penises, and have sex with them. The women died as a result. This was regularly done by the Romans, as thunderous crowds cheered with glee. Now, although Caligula did not show acts like that, they certainly managed to capture the cruelty of the Romans, and as a part of that, their graphic sex lives were just as important to show, ala their famed orgies, hence Guccione's tonal decision to add graphic sex. Again, the deranged actions of the Romans were thought to be led influenced--virtually, the Capitol of a whole nation, and its entire leadership, on a hallucinogentic and deadly drug, but not being aware of it. That is the sad and ironic thing about the ancient days of Rome, and its people.
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who wrote the damn thing, and he didn't write it based on Mr. Money-Man's ideas.
When you're digging a hole, the smart thing to do is stop digging.
And the idea that lead was leaking from the pipes into the water is an OLD theory. It was put to bed in the 60's. Lead is neither hallucinogenic, nor a drug. In the 80's, a guy called Jerome Nriagu tried to make it viable again, but his work was utterly debunked by John Scarborough.
Do some research, okay? And not from the same place that tells you about bestiality at the Colosseum.
Speaking of, can you please stop showing us your deranged masturbatory fantasies? Women raped to death by animals? As a spectator sport? I think the spaceship scene in Life of Brian is more plausible.
In the words of the ever-sceptic, sources please? -
Which looked like it was filmed in the hallways of Wheadon's offices. And outside the building.
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Which looked like it was filmed in the hallways of Wheadon's offices. And outside the building.
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"... of Rome, referenced Caligula to the execs at HBO...as a selling point to get the series started in the first place."Not a bet I would recommend taking. I think if anything was referenced it was "Gladiator". Although, Having watched "Rome", I suspect they had more vision for the kind of show they wanted to do, and were able to communicate that vision more eloquently, than having to say "think 'Sopranos' meets 'Gladiator' "."they could have put on this production without the graphic sex, or nudity"Yes, they could have, and might even have made a halfway decent show, but it wouldn't have been the same. Francis Ford Coppola could have done a literal adaptation of Mario Puzo's "The Godfather", or George Lucas could have contacted Ralph Bakshii and made "Star Wars" as an animated film. However, that's not the direction they took. The sex & violence of "Rome" was included to add a sense of realism to a period-piece drama (as opposed to "Caligula", which was more surreal than "real"). They set out to make the show as authentic as they could. That meant not shying away from nudity, sex, or violence in scenes which advanced the plot or helped with character development. It had a purpose and a place within the show. To put it simply, it wasn't "boobies for boobies' sake".
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That last post is immense. Outdone yourself. Truly. You're going to make me miss these talkbacks in a perverse sort of way. Of course its all rubbish and HD is not the new Jesus of TV production as you claim but countering your other points would only cause another rambling incoherent response whereby I would once again counter your points, thus creating an infinite logic loop of rubbish and rubbish countering and to be honest that would be my own personal version of The Attic so I'll stop now and hope to hear again from you in 2 weeks time. The End
"They say its the worst thing you can imagine" - Adelle De Witt -
It seems like its too obvious, and may have been said before, but all this 'caligula INSPIRED rome, spartacus etc.' stuff has made me wonder if the point was even made clearly here: Didn't HISTORY AND HISTORY BOOKS inspire these shows and movies? Its not like ANY Of these movies/shows decided to put the different kinds of really weird sex that our society no longer deems moral, just for the hell of it. Its a big part of the culture back then, so it finds its way into these movies... And if i'm pitching spartacus or rome to tv execs, you'd better believe i'd reference the success of Gladiator instead of a movie that only half the demographic for the proposed show has seen. Its like proposing a novel by comparing it to Gilgamesh... this debate is reading like the Caligula vs. Rome/Spartacus are related to each other in the way that a Star Wars vs. Battlestar Galactica (original) were... these ideas that are found in caligula, rome and spartacus aren't ORIGINAL ideas that have been ripped off or twisted... its HISTORY, and these days you can get away with more graphic sex so then why not throw it in--its not for the sake of sex and sex alone--its for the sake of painting a picture of the times, society and culture, because sex to us in this day and age is nothing like sex was to romans in their day and age... therefore it is worth putting it into stories about the era because its one more thing that shows the world then is not like our world now, in many ways--not just sex. Sex in these period pieces is no different than elaborate sets that draw us into the world of rome...
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Putting aside all these debates, this one and all those that came before it, I realized I don't believe i've asked:What do you do for a living, and/or during your days, Media Messiah?Me? Most recently, I've worked for UW-Milwaukee to do various writing duties and setting up the annual milwaukee book festival and writers festival, arranging for authors, editors and agents to participate. but i'm a very lucky person and finance-wise, so for now I spend my days waking up at 9, reading nonstop until 2, plotting my book from 3 to 7 and writing either parts of the book or just writing for practice until i force myself to sleep at 12... of course, i also lead a young adult support group for mental illness and meet with a handful of young adults who don't feel comfortable going to the support group yet, so i meet one on one every week until i've got them open to the idea of the support group, so that is a time commitment there. The book is about my experience with mental illness, and when i finish it i'm going to grad school. thats me--now you go.
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...without the porn. You say Tomato and I say Tomatoe, but it is really all the same.
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i think that was the closest Media Messiah has ever come to admitting he's wrong. Maybe there's still hope for him yet! also, MM, you couldn't at least come up with a LIE about what you do for a living? weird to just flat out ignore an innocent question...
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Congratulations on all of your fine works!!! Here's to your continued success...and many Blessings from God!!!!
Right now, I am focusing on writing music as it is easier to get around in the industry as opposed to, say, writing movie scripts. You have to go through hundreds of people to get a script made into a film, if at all, but with music, it is just you, and you can get you music out there through channels, and at least, have it heard. You Tube has really democratized the music industry, and the same with certain other online social networks. Right now, I am broke, but I do know how to write, and I am very good at it. My music is impressive, and I am thankful that I can realize something on a audio level that is as good as the best out there, and also, it is on the equivalent of anything considered to be the best in the visual medium.What will happen for me next, I don't know, you never know in this life? I have been around very poor people in my life, and very rich and famous people, to everyone in between...and I find everything a struggle--as nothing is a sure thing, even when you've got a sure thing. -
...in terms of adding the graphic sex (the porn).
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I find martial arts to be a very good meditation. I spend much of my time doing that. It is very good for the mind and soul, and one hell of a work-out. And as for self defense, it is good knowing that if you have to, at anytime, you can just about destroy anyone who might attack you, no matter what their size, strength, or weight. BTW, did you see that bit in Sherlock Holmes with Robert Downey Jr., where he was talking about strike zones on the human body, those...that one must target for attack, knowing the results well ahead of striking? Well, Jr. is a martial artist in real life, and what was shown in that movie, is very accurate.
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I totally swear that i will give you a link to a couple songs i have on purevolume.com, if you link to even just a single song yoruself. I have ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO intentions of going into music--i write and record with cheap equipment... i begun writing songs when i was in the early stages of my recovery from mental illness. I did it as a fun hobby, but mainly because when i was first on my medication, i couldn't write any fiction or anything... writing songs was a way to just keep plugging away at whatever kind of writing i was capable of doing. because of the nature of writing lyrics, i found it was a great way to express myself and at the same time, working within the conventions of lyricism made me write about emotions i didn't even know i was feeling--even on some of my worst days, there would be times i'd write something optimistic or encouraging to myself, which helped keep be going, and it was reassuring. SO, i would LOVE to hear some of your stuff--as you yourself said, its easier to get yourself out there, so you shouldn't be worried about putting your stuff online... link to a song--and unlike a writing sample from you, i would NEVER criticize ANYONE'S music, namely because its so much more personal to someone than, say, a script or short story. the very act of attempting to write music is honorable and should always be encouraged. on top of that, everyone has different musical tastes, and there aren't real 'rules' you must follow to write good music as opposed to the absolute rules that govern scripts and stories. its also worth mentioning--writing a novel is 'just you'
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I will be completing an album in the months ahead, but as for now, I don't upload any of my music as I haven't gotten a copyright yet. With the fees to copyright one's material, now I think, 60 dollars, I am waiting until I finish a handful of extra songs, and then, I will copyright them as a compilation of my works, and thus save on fees, as opposed to copyrighting my songs separately. After that is done, I will place them on I-Tunes, and You Tube, etc.
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I agree, which makes me think I may have misunderstood you. When you wrote:
"Let us not forget, they could have put on this production without the graphic sex, or nudity, but they choose to do it with such activity, again, as a selling point. Yes, they did it for the titillation, not for the drama, and that is what it is all about, sex!
were you referring to Caligula or Rome? If you meant Caligula, then I misunderstood you, and agree, that what Guccione did with the film was to titillate. He made the movie he wanted to make and if he hadn't done to it what he had, for better or worse, we probably would have ended up with a less interesting film.
However, if you meant Rome with the statement above, I think you missed my point. I wasn't being critical of the film Guccione unleashed upon the public; rather I was attempting to make the case that the sex & violence in Rome had a dramatic purpose and wasn't simply gratuitous. It was another rebuttal of your original statement that Rome (haven't seen TV Spartacus so can't really comment) was a rip-off of Caligula. Despite some very general comparisons (set in Ancient Rome, showing nudity, sex, gory violence) they are very different depictions of that society and period. The graphic sex & violence in Caligula are an extension of the depravity and despair the Emperor's reign is infamous for. The film, like Caligula himself, celebrates its excesses. Rome, on the other hand, was not about selling sex or pushing boundaries. It was an attempt (a successful one, in my opinion) to make an entertaining drama, set around the fall of Caesar, as accurate as possible, warts and all (or blood and breasts, as the case may be). -
I was talking about both productions. And yes, you are correct, thinking from an adult perspective--sex, in drama, can add an extra dimension to dramatic works if done right, but it can often be over done, like with "Californication"
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CAN NOT WAIT to hear these tunes.
And he can "destroy" anyone that messes with him? :)
LOVE IT -
You would be surprised to know just how many people are martial artist out there. The point is, just being out and about, on occasion, you are going to run iinto somebody who s thinking of picking a fight with you, and many, if not out and out martial artists, are doing MMA, boxing, and weight lifting, or a combination of those things. Trust me, in my style, and I am not going to say what that is, they teach us how to severely injure or kill. It is not for sport, it is strictly self defense. You never know how you are going to react in any given situation, so they have us train all the time so our reactions will be as best they can be, even taking blows. If you get use to being hit, and issuing hits, it doesn't shock you as it would with most people. I am by no means a Bruce Lee, but if I have to, I can surprise somebody if attacked. Lastly, yes, I am a musician--not the best, although I am a very good writer. My brother is the master musician, and what I don't know, he does, and fills-in. As for my music, I will never post a link here because I have been very opinionated about Joss Whedon, etc., and I don't need any problems. In this industry, often times if someone is going to mess with you, and they do, mind you, they will simply do it from afar, and many times when business deals go sour, you wonder why--but I have been specifically told by execs in the past, if they want to make a phone call to a friend at another company, they can easily screw-up someone's career, the reason why I won't say who I am, or will even bothering to hint at it, as t just isn't worth the grief, especially after the backlash I have received while posting here. It was partly my own fault, I was more than a little enthusiastic---trying to prove I was right.
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