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You Wanna Read Cameron's AVATAR Script?? Read Cut Sequences!?
Merrick here...
This should've been posted yesterday, but got lost in SPIDER-MANia.
JoBlo has - evidentially officially - posted a .pdf of James Cameron's AVATAR script.
The 151 page document includes many scenes that were deleted from the theatrical release of the film, but may turn up on forthcoming DVDs & Blu-Rays. A brief opening sequence fearing Sully's life before going into space, for example, is present here - 'twas glimpsed in the trailers but cut from the final version. And there's more...
You can check it all out HERE.
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...not at all... I would like to read JettLs scripts tho...
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That's all
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Given what we saw of the tendrils that allow the Na'vi to bond with other creatures, it only makes sense that they'd screw with 'em, too. I wonder if there's a scene where she puts Jake's ponytail in her mouth.
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One of Avatar's redeeming features is the way it starts with zero fuss, no plodding, straight in there with no boring 30 min setup before anything happens. Cameron was wise to cut it.
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but I don't want the DVD extras spoiled... must... wait... patiently...
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Then maybe you'll dig by comic, Goldilock, at www.zuda.com. DC Comics online comics.
WORD!
http://zudacomics.com/node/1261 -
Jan 12, 2010 12:38:47 PM CST
...I hope there isn't a cut scene that has Jake's parents...
by flickapoo
...saying "...and don't let me catch you and your brother playing around in those air-vents again!".
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...doing gross things with Smurfette again!". Heavy handed symbolism and foreshadowing...they were right to cut it.P.S. I loved AVATAR.
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as long as QT gets original screenplay. I think Basterds deserves best pic but I think it's probably going to be between Avatar and The Hurt Locker.
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WAS GREAT!!!
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film. Beyond the excellent 3D, Avatar was a poorly put together patch work of ideas from several other movies. In five years all of you will realize this and be ashamed that you supported Avatar so doggedly.
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That bald chick from Farspace, Mystique from the Xmen- the list goes on. The only conclusion one can make from this surfeit of blue movie characters is that Krishna is trying to soften us all up for his eventual return to Earth. He really stepped it up a gear with Avatar, so I don't think it'll be long now. Prepare yourself, for the dancing flute-player will be here to judge us all soon.
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I'll be bugging out to AVATAR and AVATAR 2 on my new super-3D, hi-def TV.
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...one time, at Hare Krishna summer camp...
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...is pretty hilarious. Jakes response to Neteri informing him that they are now mated for life, "It's cool. I'm there" ha
Article on it with that piece of the script posted:
http://tinyurl.com/yzejcdp -
Most movies make most of their money here, or at least make considerably more in the states first. However, audiences around the world can't get enough of a film where you cheer on the death of US Marines.
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...the idea using my eyeballs to read the exact words as penned by the hand of James Cameron...weird...
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With events leading up to Sullys incapacitation and brothers death.
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Were they actually still members of the armed services? I don't think so. I think they were employed by the "company", a PMC (private military corporation). Ex grunts. This makes sense, as the "corporation" is pretty much always the bad guy in Cameron's films (True Lies being the exception). Even in Titanic, it is the "company" that causes the disaster. If this is the actual script, I'm surprised at the lack of detail. Everything is just told in broad strokes.
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Could have fooled me.
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...severe litter-box induced toxoplasmosis infection. A very sad scene, but it makes the rest of the movie all the more powerful.
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..or even too long?
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I don't want the extra stuff in the most-likely-will-happen director's cut to be spoiled. I'll hold off 'till then :)
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They weren't even soldiers. They were corporate mercs, like Blackwater goons. I didn't pick up any actual criticism of the armed forces from Avatar.
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"...Animals are infected by eating infected meat, by ingestion of feces of a cat that has itself recently been infected..." From the Wiki Toxomplasmosis listing...
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Cat-feces-eating flashbacks...
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A special reading by
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Jan 12, 2010 1:17:20 PM CST
...HarryCalder, I had to clean a litter-box for nine months...
by flickapoo
...toxomplasmosis is a risk to pregnant women and developing fetuses.As you can see I'm still bitter. It was worth it, but still...
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Good stuff, gives the side characters more dimension.
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...died two weeks after delivery. It was a complete waste of time...We used to call him The Fuzzy Asshole.
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Yeah i watch House.
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Jan 12, 2010 1:28:39 PM CST
Jim is a bona fide STORYTELLER, originality be damned...
by badwaldo s revenge
Damn, that is a riveting read, at least the first few pages so far. I remember Sigourney Weaver proclaiming the script amazing when she had her jaw dropped throughout the reading (to put it in exaggeration). Why don't they publish the script in book form now that AVATAR is a box office smash? Although I think Jim should have listed the source materials that inspired him to write the script with some ideas...especially Poul Anderson's Call Me Joe. Like that's worth giving a damn.
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Just wonderin...
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That just totally sucks, but it does make for a great story... And "The Fuzzy Asshole" is a killer name for a mixed drink... you should invent it.
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Jan 12, 2010 1:33:16 PM CST
I will read the script...if it`s in 3-D......not without....
by thedannerdaliel
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they are all engaging in inter-species erotica with the flying creatures, horse analogs, etc...? I mean, obviously aside from the inter-species fucking Na'vi/Human combo.
Bestiality has never been so blue, or so main stream, I guess. Thank you Kevin Smith for leading the way with Clerks 2. -
cat-feces-related illness. (Don't get me wrong, I love cats, but they can be a major pain... little furniture destroyers, they are...)
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...I'm a simpleton, but I got a kick out of the 3D credits......words, scrolling 10 ft. out if front of the screen!
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should include blue curacao...
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Jan 12, 2010 1:40:29 PM CST
...V'Shael, the main thing is that YOU are doing the riding.
by flickapoo
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But definitely would've been interesting to see, at least.
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...my mind is just wandering aimlessly right now...
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...why the animals on pandora have two antennas (especially the banshees)? do they need to log into pandora wit both of them (and if they did log in, why? theyre animals)... anyway wit the banshee, if it is partner for life, why the extra antenna? just to be symmetrical?
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Has any scifi film ever addressed an alien species' fecal matter? Can't think of one offhand...
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...as the next level of aerial combat.Natural born Na'vi are going to be kicking themselves.
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If they use those Ponytails to connect with the animals and with the planet and those same things are used for mating, that means Jake Scully has fucked the planet more than the mining company has....lol
If I go see Avatar for a third time I think I'm gona have a hard time not laughing every time Jake connections with a animal and the camera zooms to the animals eye, freaking out over the connection/fucking.
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...imported from Earth......technically it's a war crime, but we're unstoppable.
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But damn it's still a great movie.
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but Steven Spielberg showed us hat a gigantic mound of dinosaur shit looks like.
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Jan 12, 2010 1:57:12 PM CST
Avatards depressed, suicidal because Pandora doesn't exist
by trannyformers_apologist
"Avatar fans 'struck by depression' amid racist message claims" "Avatar is facing huge backlash by critics who claim the sci-fi film is racist and is causing viewers to have suicidal thoughts.""Here's an unexpected and sad side effect that James Cameron surely didn't see coming – fans of Avatar are complaining of suicidal thoughts and depression" "Avatar" driving us to suicide, say fans" James Cameron is KING OF THE RETARDS!!
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Maybe they'll explain Sully's apparent Austrailian lineage, seeing that his accent slipped in there a time or two.
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A whole squadron of diarrhetic banshees could probably do some serious damage...
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...I could think of that comes close... great Jeff Goldblum moment, BTW.
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Not!
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"Banshee scat, awaaaayyy!"
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Jan 12, 2010 2:05:51 PM CST
...if your mind and spirit are connected to your Banshee...
by flickapoo
...the new fighting technique must be a hell of a thing......must require some real intestinal fortitude.
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Much easier to mine a dead planet.
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...forget seein alien dump, I wanna see alien jizz! like Superman's cuz I know it should have made Lois Lane explode...
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Just melancholic at times. A fresh viewing of G.I. Joe is what my doctor ordered.
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for any Na'vi looking to reach "Top Gun" status...
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They know a thing or two about writing.
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"Na'verick"... there's a joke in there somewhere, maybe, but I'm coming up blank right now...
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taboo topic... but monster spunk I've seen... "Feast" has a particularly unsettling oral rape moment... sick, sick film, really.
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I wonder if they've ever done brainstem anal
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...eww... I prob dont wanna see that... only jizz i seen in a (non-porno) movie is Ichi... the fuckin jizz turns into the title card?! what... the... fuck... now you wanna talk bout sick films, that is the sickest (that I seen and enjoyed lol)...
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James Cameron is a damn fine screenwriter. He has an excellent pen for evocative imagery.
"Pale spirits of the dead rising from rows of open coffins." -
Jar Jar stepped in it on Tatooine. Not joking.
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Jan 12, 2010 2:36:49 PM CST
Ah, Ichi the Killer... yeah, that is a sick mofo for sure...
by harrycalder
Funny, though, I don't remember the title card sequence... I may have been a little, ahem, "altered" during that screening...
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THIS FILM STILL SUCKS.
YOUR FRIEND ALWAYS.
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Conan has released a statement that he is leaving The Tonight Show.
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...lol at the altered...but ya gotta watch every movie altered! (cept for the Cell, just DONT watch that)...
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Jar Jar most certainly did step in it, literally and figuratively.
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Says page not available. Anyone else?
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Yeah, some films can improve with alittle chemical alteration, and some are big no-noes for that sort of thing. "Coma" seriously effed up a friend of mine once...
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and I don't plan to...EVER. Nothing about the movie interests me. Tell me, is it any good???
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Jan 12, 2010 2:59:21 PM CST
If there was ever a movie that caters to idiots, it's Avatar
by industrykiller!
The fact that anyone thinks this film has an ounce of intelligence is the proof in the pudding. Vapid and derivative through and through. Not a bit of nuance or craft present int eh whole fucking picture. Avatar is the new Juno as far as films that will get mystifying critical acclaim now only for people to turn around in a year and admit it's awful. ANd the special effects are far less revolutionary than those in District 9. Fact.
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Also, not that it's really pertinent to its quality, but: $1,346,805,340 worldwide and counting so far.Also, I totally dig your handle. (Big Simpsons fan - "I thought he was a party robot!")
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And eventually watched it after a few years. You will too when Avatar breaks all the records.
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I'm applauding you sir, I am clapping as I sit here before my laptop. Amen, brother.
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...but even if you don't find much in the story to be wildly original, can you really argue there's not a bit of craft present? Watch this thing sweep the technical Oscars...
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He's like some space scientist. He smart!
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Fuck that is amateur. I don't need to see the fuckers actually "Fuck". That sounds like a scene JC and some animators decided to do one night while huffing ether and circle jerking each other...then came to their senses the next day and removed.
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Jan 12, 2010 3:08:47 PM CST
...see it in 3D or not at all. Not because 3D is the only...
by flickapoo
...good thing about it, but because the whole thing was clearly designed for 3D. 2D would be like drinking wine with your nose plugged...or watching STAR WARS with no model-work and broom handles for light sabers.There would really be no point.
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Jan 12, 2010 3:09:45 PM CST
Reading this script is like listening to Olivia Munn
by jeangrey_x23_lesbosex
Without the visuals... what's the fucking point
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http://autotelic.com/avatar_-_the_metacontextual_edition
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The visuals are really the only reason to see it, unless you happen to like Saturday morning simplicity in your story telling.
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It's interesting to note that the first part of the film had Earth scenes, with some of the dialog we have heard in the original movie but used differently. I can Already see this "Earth" in my head as Cameron describes it, pretty much Minority Report-ish with some obvious Cameron touches (in my minds eye).
I can picture Sully lying on his back as the corporate guys come over to him. Staring up at the maglev trains, water pouring down... would have been cool to see I hop that footage is released if it was shot (it was actually i heard). Finish those effects boys and release the special edition pronto. -
For Imax so hopefully the directors cut will be groovy. 3 D is still an antiquated tech though, AVATaRDS.
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Problem is many of Blackwater's employees are drawn from the US Military. As were the characters in the film. If I were going to compare them to any of the major private military companies it would probably be Dyncorp. Still it is true the film is more about corporate thuggery than any criticism of the US military,
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Out of 5 was my score for the 'tar, but it's a good movie though so I'm not a hater
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Even without the extra-dimension effect, it's still unbelievably beautiful to look at. But see it both ways for sure.
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Compared to what I've been reading recently, it's practically War and Peace.
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...I'm not sure about calling you Hairy-C. Thoughts?
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Even the final fight sequence is treading water in terms of how it's shot and how the drama is presented. Did ANYTHING in that sequence surprise you? Can you name me one shot that took your breath away with it's technical skill? I certainly can't.And mroeover how are those special effects "revolutionary" int eh least. They look like cartoons. Straight up. If you honestly can't see hte ridiculous disparagement when an Avatar stands next to a human then you are fucking blind. THis isn't a matter of opinion, I know what I see and I see an OBVIOUSLY shiny cartoony cat person standing next to a human who is on a different plain of existence. Compare that to District 9, and while not every shot is perfectly integrated, there are MANY where you would swear on your life Blomkamp is using practical effects with the prawns. In fact i don't think people actually think these effects are that big a step up, it's just presenting a wholly derivative world in a different visual effects landscape than they are used to, they are mixing up technical achievement with their own relative aesthetic wants and needs.And the world could not be any less new if Cameron had just shot human landscapes. WHat exactly about it isn't just a rip off of our world? It's not a panther, it's a space panther! It's not a rhino, it's a space rhino! Space horse! Really bland looking dragon substitute! The plants are bigger than normal plants! How is any of this unique in ANY way? I saw that shit for the first time in the "Big" world in Super Mario Brothers 3, and it was a lot more fun then.
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But I kept wishing I was watching a better movie.
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But I am going to see it in 3D. And Hairy-C is totally acceptable. (HarryCalder is just a nick, anyway.)
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...because I'm fat, ugly and poor. Not because of a fucking movie.
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...(not IMax) and digital (or Dolby I think it is) 3D...the reality of it gave me this weird sense of euphoria that lasted for a couple of days...
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and I wanted to see the film first without any possible issues of hinky eyeware spoiling the experience. Also, several friends who had already seen the film in both versions couldn't pinpoint which way they preferred it... but I've always intended to see it both ways. Imax 3D does strike me as a bit much, though...
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...over his regular and had no problems at all. Better than me in fact...I have one OK eye and one super eye that tells the other eye what to do. The OK eye is so scared into submission I sometimes have trouble with those old Magic Eye posters and shit...not that I've tried recently. The older 3D they used in Hairy Pooter movies was murder. Took me ten minutes to get used to, five minutes looked pretty cool...then the image started to split up...and two days to get rid of the headache.Dolby 3D was perfect.
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...avoiding IMax though...they use that older stuff that gives me trouble.
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Thanks! (Only Imax move I've ever really enjoyed is "To Fly," that oldie but goodie at the Smithsonian Air & Space...)
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The Oscars this year are a two way match between a divorced couple? Can't wait to see them cut to Cameron when Bigelow picks up Best Director.
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Jan 12, 2010 4:10:00 PM CST
...sorry to sound like I know stuff, because I really don't...
by flickapoo
...I'm an embarrassment. The depth of my tech ignorance is bottomless. My wife hooks up the TV because I can't/won't.My "advice" is based on dreading a 3D headache...not getting one and being blown away...my wife seeing it again in IMax and declaring IMax 3D shit...and finally my googling the different types of 3D yesterday afternoon.Don't listen to me.
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...make sure to keep your 3D glasses...its the new hot fashion trend...
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...own...movie tie-in glasses in Happy-Meals etc...Count on it.
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...well Im predictin 3D contact lens! to see life in 3D!...cuz ya know, people is stupid and probably dont know what 3D actually is...
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...October 31st, the nation will be littered wit slutty drunk Navis...
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except for my saintly mother's... so your input is still valued...
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...my AVATAR 2 plot...that humans forget about unobtanium and just overrun Pandora with cheesy vacation resorts...human/Na'vi Avatars in banana hammocks and novelty T-shirts all over the place......drama ensues...
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I look forward to 3D contact lenses and slutty drunk Na'vi babes with equal relish... I think...
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...just watch out for the tail...they get frisky.
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...but they were FAR less ambitious than what Cameron attempted in Avatar (the prawns were designed specifically because the filmmakers knew they could achieve that type of form and surface detail without flaw). And I won't argue that EVERY digital effect in Avatar is perfect, but I can only say that much of what I saw DID look perfect. Like I said, watch Avatar sweep the tech awards. At the very least.
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has it been discussed on these boards how all the animals are more advanced versions of our insects? Six legged? Feeding on plant goo? Very fucking cool...
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...I was tryin to make that "watch out their tails" joke but couldnt find the words... thank ya kindly
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yes if you hate this movie you are a faggot, don't bother arguing back, your a faggot, just accept it and get on with your life, it'll be ok. Just remember your a faggot
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I'm tired of peeking behind the curtain. I don't even like watching DVD extras anymore. It ruins the magic for me. When I was a kid I had no idea how they made Star Destroyers look so massive, or how Indy didn't get bit in the face by that cobra. It was a lot more exciting that way now that I think about it. Yeah, I'll just go see Avatar again and leave it there.
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Jan 12, 2010 4:41:46 PM CST
...didn't get it quite right tough. "frisky" should have been..
by flickapoo
..."exploratory when they're drunk" or maybe "experimental"...
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You do realize that not only brand new technology was invented to shoot the film, the techniques Cameron and co. used to film the movie were entirely unique. There was no handbook on how to make a film like this, rather the filmmakers had to figure out most of it for themselves.
This a film that will forever change the way the industry makes movies, and be looked back upon as a benchmark of cinema...in other words, this film contains some of the finest craftmanship ever in cinema. The near-flawless CGI levels alone are telling that the artists who animated this film are true craftsmen. The massive-jump in motion-capture used in Avatar is another fine example of a near-perfected craft - especially when you compare it with recent works like A Christmas Carol. What's most amazing about the movie though is the world Cameron created, an alien world which is UNMATCHED in variety, depth, and wonder. The fact that the world feels just as alive as any terrain on Earth just adds to the accomplishment even more. The amount of work put in to create every single piece of flora and fauna - and treat each of them as if they were real by giving exhaustive descriptions and and scientific explanations for each - is just mind-blowing.
Of course just the fact that Cameron pulled off on of the riskiest projects in film history deserves to be applauded. Think about it, an original sci-fi film based on no prior material, no A-list actors, and the main characters being CGI cat-aliens. It seems like a sure thing now the the film is on it's way to being the highest grossing film ever, but let's not forget that before the movies release 90% of the people on here were absolutely convinced it would be a Heavens Gate status disaster, critically and commercially. Of course it wasn't though, and James Cameron has proved himself time and time and time again as one of the most visionary and talented directors working. He might have sacrificed a little character depth for the experience, but IMO that was the right choice. He had to cut down for IMAX...he can always add the other stuff in for a Directors Cut, but for the cinemas it should be about the wonder. And good thing, because this film is more wonder and adventure stuffed in it then almost any film ever made. Haters can keep on hating, but Cameron hit it out of the park AGAIN, and whether you like it or not, Avatar 2 is coming. -
Jan 12, 2010 5:07:40 PM CST
FOR ME, THE STUNNING VISUALS SERVED TWO MAJOR PURPOSES
by bringingsexyback
One is to immerse me in the Pandoran world, to be introduced to its beauty and Na'vi culture, like Jake, by Neytiri.
The other is to amplify the horror of seeing this world being attacked and poised for destruction.
Sure, Industry, you have your points and they are for the most part valid. But to be fair, you're missing others. As a sensory experience, a film that draws you in and takes your emotions for a ride, Avatar is without precedent. That is, if you allow it to.
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the special effects are genius because there is a lot of them. Because I don't give a shit how many special effects there are or what technology Cameron invented, it doesn't look fucking natural. not by a long shot. It doesn't even look natural by some arbitrary "It's another planet" standards, it looks like cartoony CG. They look like fucking cartoons. Im not inventing this. And you state that the world Cameron creates is unmatched with no actual proof of that at all. THe fucking plants glow? I dont care. Its an alright effect but it doesnt lull me into a state of cartoon ignoring bliss. There is not an ounce of originality to the whole venture. It has so much depth because ITS OUR FUCKING WORLD WITH GIANT PLANTS AND ANIMALS WITH SQUIGGILY THINGS ON THEM!!!! People are depressed Avatars world isn't real? I beg to differ, join Green Peace and move to the fucking Amazon and you are pretty much there. Im sorry the plants won't glow.And what the fuck do you mean its an original story. Because I'm pretty sure I've seen this film before when it was called Dances With Wolves and The Last Samurai. and Im sure about 40 other "white man becomes the best native and saves the day" stories. And those film all had MUCH more 3 dimensional characters. But then again I guess people would rather have characters in the literal 3-D sense rather than the figurative. If Avatar "changes the industry" in any way it will be further hammer home to soulless studio suits that people don't need anything but what amounts to shiny objects to look at to be entertained, like some kind of animal amazed by a sequined dress, gaudy and passe.
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Are you finally starting to regain a little courage? You know after all your nonstop barrage of "look-at-me, Im so ironic!" comments about Avatar, you sure disappeared in a hurry. Was it cause the film really was as groundbreaking, revolutionary, and eyeball fucking as was hyped? Maybe because it became such a critical success you couldn't take the embarassment? Or perhaps it was the box office that skyrocketed to astronomical levels, breaking records left and right? I'm guessing it was a combo of it all that probably resulted in you cutting yourself/ crying in fetal position for weeks, hanging your head low in total embarassment, and not taking your well-earned verbal assault like a good sport.
I see now you've got a new angle to play off of, and not surprisingly it's the most pathetic yet. Now your arguing what...that Avatar was TOO good? That it was so filled with awe and wonder that it made people's own lives by comparison seem like complete and utter shite? Or I'm guessing thats just the effect it had on you...but don't just assume the whole world is as useless as you. But no matter, now that you've actually summoned the courage to finally show yourself on an Avatar talkback, I must ask...How does it feel to have Camerons tear your asshole into shreds? I sure enjoyed knowing it was happening...you doubt Cameron you will ultimately get what you deserve, and now you just look like an utter fool. -
Even if you hate Avatar, at least have some respect for Zoe Saldana. Arguably she is the heart of this film and her performance was incredible. Powerful, heartfelt and brilliant.
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For such a supposedly simple plot, how do basic things go over the nitpickers' heads? If Jim hates ex-marines so much, why make the good guy one???
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Jan 12, 2010 5:17:36 PM CST
If I want PURELY visuals, I'll watch the EARTH documentary
by industrykiller!
Which contains visuals that make Avatar look like fucking garbage. Partially because they aren't shiny cartoons, but because they are also real, and not an ounce less wonderous or alien for it.I mean come on BSB, you're too good for this. If I "allow" it to transport me? Give me a break. By allow you must mean ignore bland characters that do nothing but grate and annoy (I will give you Saldana is a big exception, she was great), a story that we've seen a hundred thousand times before done better, a derivative production design, and directing that uses it's cartoon CG in favor of shot composition. Even if I wanted to I couldnt ignore all those things BSB. And the world is too unoriginal to be truly transcendent.
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Aww..come on folks..you KNOW they are making a porn spoof of this. It'll be great.
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...thats what I said when people told me "go see Avatar for the visuals"...I was like, couldnt I just watch Earth then?......I agree wit your points bout Avatar dull/unoriginal/etc, but I did enjoy lookin at it...but I will never look at it again
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Jan 12, 2010 5:22:00 PM CST
THE THING IS, CAMERON WANTED THE STORY ACCESSIBLE BY ALL
by bringingsexyback
so, God forbid, people can enjoy the movie and get their money's worth.
COULD he have created silicon-based rock-like lifeforms instead? Creatures with 1,000 eyes instead of 2? Stuff you've NEVER seen or imagined before? Sure.
But would people, other than extreme sci-fi geeks, enjoy that? Would they empathize with those characters' plight? Doubtful.
So he chose to go with something of familiar beings and world. It may disappoint some, but obviously it's going over well all over the world, people have been given a great, futuristic cinematic experience and hopefully kids will have drawn some lesson to respect their own planet and make our future a better place.
I just don't see where Cameron committed a crime so heinous as to warrant such hate. -
Nothing new there, true. It's Dances With Wolves meets Ferngully meets Return of the Jedi (Ewoks) meets the Horta from Trek (my favorite comparison). Yep. Been there done that. And you know what else? It will be done again in some form in the future because it's a classic story. Sure, they made it CGI and gussied it up all nice and shiny but it's the same story. Hell, I could argue the case that District 9 is just another version of the same old plotline.
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I agree with you that nothing can be more wondrous than laying your eyes upon nature itself. Absolutely.
About the story ... yes, it's been told numerous times. He could have made this movie what, 25 years ago, when he first came up with the idea ... but the tech wasn't available to do so then. It's not his fault numerous movies have already been made on this theme. He still had his version to tell, just bad timing. -
of Avatar's box office. Godspeed!
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Smart move, JC.
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would NOT be something I want to see in IMAX 3D.
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so did the 7yr old kid sitting next to her. It was pretty (not revolutionary..but very cutting edge), and it was VERY easy to understand for the casual movie watcher. It is the ultimate popcorn movie...not deep, not thought provoking, just entertaining to the widest possible audience. NO..it isn't an Oscar worthy FILM, other than for the tech aspects; but it certainly wasn't Transformers Stupid either.As a film fan I give it a 7 out of 10 for technical execution alone, but to that Kid, my mom, and the rest of the none jaded 2-3 movies a year audience it was a 10 and a revelation...and thats why they return to see it again and again.His writing is weak...and the guy is a royal asshole to everyone around him...but I have to admit...JC knows how to package product and make a return on his backers investment.
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I've only seen it twice (Real3D and Imax), so here's what comes to mind:
1) The first shot of the ships connected to the mothership in space was amazing. 2) The shot of the HUGGGEEE excavator with the trucks and bots and people and everything ~ one of the coolest shots I've ever seen in a sci-fi film. 3) The shots when Jake first woke up and everybody was floating around the giant sleep chamber. 4) The first shots introducing the avatars. 5) the entire first "Jake controls avatar" sequence. 6) the entire first avatars out exploring Pandora sequence. 7) being introduced to the first creatures and the big chase scene. 8) The first night shots with Jake lost in Pandora. Jake/Neytiri swiming with the giant glowing underwater coral.... Wait a minute. I'll just say there was something in every scene that had my jaw to the floor. I can't think of a more memorable film-going experience since "Raiders of the Lost Ark" or "Empire Strikes Back"... Wait, gotta mention a couple more scenes before I post: *The Na’vi falling from the space ship was insane. Before he fell, him kicking mercinary ass was insane. *Jake’s dragon-wrangling scene was goose-bumpilly great. *Anything involving the home tree. * Any scenes on the floating islands. * The scenes involving the listening tree. * Any scene with Sigourmey’s avatar in it. * Any scene involving Neytiri. * Any shot using hand-held zoom shots (friggin’ brilliant way to give a sense of realism to CGI). *All the technology (3D computer screens, weapons and other gizmos) were designed by VERY creative people. I was droolin’... Learn to accept we now live in a Post-Avatar world. Love it or hate it, you’re living in it... -
Why would he have to dumb it down to this dreck now? I'm a huge Cameron fan and love pretty much everything he's ever done save Avatar. I even love Titanic for the most part. Yeah the dialogue is hokey but he hired the two best actors of their generation to sell it and sell it they did, turning it into melodrama of the best kind. Whats his excuse with Avatar? Accessible is now synonymous with mind numbing idiocy? We all know thats total and utter bullshit. In fact it's one of the biggest fallacies anyone can infer about film as an art form. The reason we were so excited for this film from the day it was announced because Cameron has always combined excellent directing and action with strong characterization and great actors (ok maybe Arnie isn't technically great but hes got charisma you cannot fuckin' beat). Avatar had none of that. Even the action sequences left me utterly cold, they were the blandest of Camerons career. WTF mate?
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Oooh. That was pretty bad.
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You're just rattling off completely mundane things. A guy falling off a ship? ANYTHING involving the home tree? Christ man you see that shit in your average game of World of Warcraft (which for the record I don't play. dont care to be associated with that any more than I do Avatar). So basically just anything with special effects you liked.....ugh.I live in a post AVatar world? What the fuck does that even mean? Well YOU Flip, my fine feathered friend, live in a post Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeequel World, Flip! You better check yourself before you wreck yourself around that one home slice! love it or hate it.... or feel ambivalent about it.... or something...
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your favorite scene is basically the whole fucking movie?
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...but I talk to people...and I'm cheap. If I have a choice of three different products and they all cost $13 I want to buy the right one dammit.
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...every one has thanked me.
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I don't care if he sold us out to the humans, I want to follow him because I'm a native person and I believe in superstition and talking plants! Wait, where the fuck am I? (looks around, notices he's not on Pandora) Cunt's breath! I'm in KANSAS!!!!!!
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http://tinyurl.com/ycatxxz
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and realize that avatar was nothing more than a one time watch special effects event. Avatar has more plot holes than TIger Woods has mistresses. I have one plot hole I would like avatar lovers to explain: in the final fight scene between the humans and na'vi all the animals save the na'vi from the humans by attacking the humans aircraft and war machines. How could the na'vi be able to summon the animals to save them, when numerous times during the movie these same animals are trying to kill the na'vi. Doesn't make much sense does it. And don't give me this their all connected with that hair thingy, if they were the animals would never attack the na'vi in the first place. Another point I would like to make is that avatar making lots of money doesn't make it a good movie. Transformers 2 made a lot of money and it was terrible, same for the phantom menace, ghostrider, any michael bay movie, and so on. Another point, the effects were great but they were not some giant leap into the future. Take away the 3d and the movie is cartoonish at moments, The na'vi facial movements are no more advanced than Gollum was in the lord of the rings. So take the 3d away its a movie where the cgi is a distraction, kind of like the star wars prequels. To get the best look when your creating a fantasy or sci fi world is like what peter jackson did in lord of the rings using miniatures, cgi, real shots of real locations, and cgi to enhance and add to shots of real locations. So overall the effects were great, but they were far from a giant leap forward, and i don't care if they used new techinques to capture the film it still isn't a major advance as some are claiming on here
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like an antivirus, see not really a plot hole
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Jan 12, 2010 6:56:27 PM CST
Yes Yack! And I will lead the talkbackers to certain annihilatio
by industrykiller!
Only to be saved at the last second in a deus ex finale! Seriously though couldn't the world have interjected like 15 minutes earlier BEFORE half the Na'Vi got killed? I mean really did the planet have to like gather animals first? You think the hive mind would have been good for for that kind of quick mobilization....fuckin Pandora, she's a fickle mistress.
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Since I stopped half way through a movie to see what the time was. Sheesh this film was a disappointment.
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Jan 12, 2010 7:04:48 PM CST
Escapist entertainment - isn't that what movies are meant to be.
by korkie70
Sure I enjoyed(?) schindlers list, american history x, etc. but it is good to go to a movie and lose yourself in pure entertainment.
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it is a simple tale but well told. The difference with other recent big budget shit eg Transformers is they attempt to throw in twists and plot points and end up showing up their ineptness. This movie as people have stated cost over $300million and so was made to be accesible to everyone. And unfourtunetly it does come of as a bit clichéd and simple because of that.
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I enjoyed the first film immensely. And I understand why he wanted to make the introduction simple (A New Hope is just as simple and cliched guys). Now he's got us introduced to Pandora, it's time to throw in a full story here.
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He's most likely starting a franchise. And getting half the world interested in the first one will make the next just as big.
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I can't think of many. Beastiality? I thought most animals had 2 set's of antenee, I presume 1 for "sex" and 1 as Gaia Firewire Now noone has mentioned how do the Navi Reproduce? Does the tree give birth to them? They didn't seem to have vaginas.
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If you ask me Avatar is absolutely ripe for a spoof and it WOULD BE HILARIOUS. Just imagine actors in blue body paint running around and jumping on crappy CG dragons. I honestly think that Avatar is already becoming a subject of ridicule. In years to come if a preposterous film does unbelievably well at the box office the industry lingo will be "That film did an Avatar!"
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Excellent writing all. Really impressive.
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and probably the greatest filmmaker of all the times. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot who needs to pull the tampon out of their butt.
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Avatar's problem is its complete lack of subtlety on any level at all. It's very pretty to look at but it doesn't make you think.
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Cameron's cock out of YOUR butt. Tampons in the ass are purely for sanitary reasons... well maybe it's 1% fun, but so is licking frogs.
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Nazi Pope has condemed Avatar because they worship nature. You should however worship THE MAGIC WIZARD in the sky that will burn you forever for touching your self. In Avatars defense we can prove nature is real.
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http://failblog.org/2010/01/10/avatar-plot-fail/
I enjoyed Avatar, but I mean, come on... -
Cos I'm running low on toilet paper.
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...you should have proofread. I'm sure you meant "featuring".
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Why is everyone still talking about it?
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That would be a wondrous read, I'm sure. After all, it was so good that it evidently scared Cameron into firing him... or whatever bullshit his royal mental patient made up.
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I'm sure they'll love Kick Ass.
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You get the picture.
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You think you know a person ... and then find out you really don't.
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I just don't think there's anything to it. It's as if the movie made no true impression on me. I'm more or less amazed by Cameron's ability to once again tap into the moviegoing audiences' brains. The guy is an effective filmmaker in that respect. But I've never walked out of any Cameron movie and said "Holy shit, that was awesome," so maybe that's the issue.
I think AVATAR is a dull movie. I care less and less about special effects as I've seen CGI=fests over the years. It's all kind of meaningless if the core story is shallow, which this one is. And I don't care if a story is simple, but if it lacks tension and at least one single moment of surprise, well... that's what AVATAR was to me. -
I just don't think there's anything to it. It's as if the movie made no true impression on me. I'm more or less amazed by Cameron's ability to once again tap into the moviegoing audiences' brains. The guy is an effective filmmaker in that respect. But I've never walked out of any Cameron movie and said "Holy shit, that was awesome," so maybe that's the issue.
I think AVATAR is a dull movie. I care less and less about special effects as I've seen CGI=fests over the years. It's all kind of meaningless if the core story is shallow, which this one is. And I don't care if a story is simple, but if it lacks tension and at least one single moment of surprise, well... that's what AVATAR was to me. -
...that it is a special effects bonanza. To say otherwise would be foolish. Beyond that, IMHO, there's just not a lot of substance there. The movie is extremely heavy-handed when it tries to make its points and, as has been stated earlier, extremely derivative of previous works with similar themes. If Avatar is viewed as a proof-of-concept for Cameron's new FX system then I deem it successful. Anything else, not so much.
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Funny fucking stuff- and very accurate.
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full of priests with 3D glasses on watching blue people. You would think God's emissaries would have better things to do.
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...what's wrong with Avatar. It makes me chuckle.
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You're fucking killing me here.
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— and I defy you to find a 'cartoon' that's comparable to the visual effects work seen in the movie. What are you comparing it to… Bob Clampett's "John Carter of Mars" screen tests? If you're saying the film doesn't look naturalistic enough for you, then I can understand that. It IS stylized and has a semi-artificial look as a result of it's colour palette. But, it looks like a 'cartoon'? NO. That's an idiotic and spurious comparison. Why don't you A/B roll the trailers to "Shrek" and "Avatar" and compare them? You damage your entire argument (at least in terms of the visual effects) with such lazy and ill-considered hyperbole.
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I kind of agree with you. But even though Avatar has a simple story with not much to it, it's still creating a lot of debate! I'm sure Cameron doesn't care about that, though -- he achieved what he wanted, to showcase new tech with a simple story with a simple message. We'll see where he takes it in Avatar 2, hey?
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Jan 12, 2010 9:23:39 PM CST
NY Times: Cameron, Landau haven't decided on next project yet
by colonelfatheart
http://tinyurl.com/yg4956t
From NYT: Speaking by telephone last week, Mr. Landau said the “Avatar” innovations were perfectly suited to prospective projects like “Battle Angel,” a film that is based on a Japanese comic and that has been in development for Mr. Cameron to direct at Fox.
While he and Mr. Cameron have not settled on their next project, Mr. Landau said he believed a new, “Avatar”-like film could now be made in no more than the two years or so it takes to produce many effects-driven films, and for no more expense. -
Thanks, the Vatican is just ripe for ribbing ...
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BABY GENIUSES. Too young?
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...into.
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For obvious reasons.
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http://tinyurl.com/ygx8cun
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I say they look like cartoons in the sense that, even in the world Cameron provides, his "aliens" don't like for a second like they or organic or anything but computer created images. Not in the context of the film, not in any context. I'll put it this way, they couldn't be any more obviously CG if they were Pixar creations. Sure they are styled in more of a human shape than Pixar cartoons, but they are no more believable as real. Ergo to me they are cartoons. Bright, shiny, inaccurately textured cartoons.But if it helps you sleep at night I'll change my terminology....it looks like a video game.
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It's tiresome, belabored, hackneyed and FUCKING DISTRACTING.
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Jan 12, 2010 9:54:26 PM CST
Will the Vatican back off if Cameron lets missionaries on Pandor
by colonelfatheart
TENTACLE SEX IS AN IMPURITY! SAY 40 HAIL MARYS.
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But it still looked like a fucking cartoon
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They're aliens. If we can't get over our own preconceived ideas about what an alien looks like we'll never be able to enjoy the glut of similar movies soon to follow Avatar. Everything doesn't have to look like Star Wars. I bought the aliens in Avatar 100%. They were actually one of my smallest concerns going in and of no concern going out. It didn't look cartoonish. It doesn't look like a video game. The dialogue is not that weak, mostly because there's very little of it. Only the healer/mother says anything really silly. The plot has been done a hundred times and most people have zero problem with this because it feels familiar and comfortable. Which, really, is not always a bad thing. The complaints about Avatar just sound like a skipping record. They've been exactly the same since the first trailer was released and yet the movie is probably going to end up the highest grossing in history. Crazy, huh?
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...if y'all could please point me to any cartoons that look like Avatar I'd be most grateful. Because I'd love to watch them.
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Jan 12, 2010 10:08:24 PM CST
IndustryKiller! That work. I don't agree, but that works.
by blakindigo
I'd rather have 3-D nunsploitation, though…
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That I drew. Warning Graphic Content. http://tinyurl.com/ye852au
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...yeah I did. I just didn't want to give Fox a cent for something that looked crappy. And on a 2-D screen it really DOES look like a cartoon. It makes you wonder if Avatar had been purely a 2-D presentation what it's BO would be like. I'm guessing it would have barely scraped $200m domestic. Aside from True Lies, I have no doubt that Avatar is Cameron's worst film. It is wanting in every department - even visually on a 2-D screen. When we get used to 3-D films (The Hobbit films could kick it out if the park by combining great visuals AND great story/characters) people will look back at Avatar and say "how the hell did it make so much money?"
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The Vatican would "bristle" at that drawing. OH!
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and I literally spat out what I was drinking. It was completely ridiculous. Wherever he is right now, he will be missed.
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Shitty movies with massive scope ALWAYS make money, TONS of it. Avatars success could not be less surprising. I would address your points but Im not sure you had any other than about the CG, so Ill stick to that. Im sick of this "It doesnt look realistic because its aliens" jive. Thats a fuckin crock. Unless aliens look like they are rendered by a computer, those dont look like real aliens. When the Avatars stand next to an actual human the disparagement is ridiculous, Im not wrong about that, Im not fucking seeing things, they dont look like they exist on the same level of existence or any that didn't come from a computer rendering program. Even when they arent near actual humans they don't look organic. Take this picture for instance http://www.treehugger. com/Avatar- Na%27vi.jpg Now I think that's an accurate representation of the visuals and I think the are a lot of shots that in motion dont even look that good. If you think that looks like anything other than an impressive video game cut scene you are patently insane. Like I dont even know what to tell you other than you must have low standards or smoked a lot of peyote in college. Its detailed, sure, but realistic it is not. And you know what I wouldn't even give a shit if the film had ANYTHING else to offer or if anyone could actually defend on its merits ANYTHING else about the film other than its "gorgeous" visuals. Or even if Camerons designed team had created anything but silly derivative crap. You can't look at the Thanator and do anything but laugh cause its just clearly a space panther from some schlocky 80's sci fi novel cover. Not cool or intimidating in the least. And for the record I was absolutely NOT one of the people criticising the film before I saw it. I was downright stoked about the whole venture since I heard about it. Im a HUGE James Cameron fan and I waiting my turn to see it and Ive earned my right to bitch, especially in the wake of such obviously ridiculous indefensible praise. and so I leave you with this http://i.ytimg. com/vi/LxRQzx 9Wmi8/0.jpg
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the movie and are actually comparing the quality of what you've seen on your computer monitor to the big screen, digital print?Basically you're saying "I didn't see the movie, but it looks like a cartoon." That's like watching a dubbed version of "Hellboy 2" and complaining about the subtitle quality… Make no it sense…
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It's a literary equivalent of painting a flowerpot; the art is in the technique and skill, not in some twist hidden in the subject.
When you learn to paint chinese watercolors (if, um, you ever do...), you'll find that there are certain pictures that you are expected to paint. A bird on a limb. Several stakes of bamboo. The most simple of subjects, but a true artist can execute them with praiseworthy elegance.
The avatar story has depth, obviously, because it's saying something fundamental about humanity. It doesn't have surprises... and that's ok. The same story didn't have surprises when it was being told centuries ago.
A Princess of Mars didn't have surprises in it, and anybody that criticizes that story is a stone cold moron, whose opinion should be ignored forever. -
Because it's not natural.It's Vidal Sassoon!
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How many times have you seen AVATAR, pallie?
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hat fundamental truth about humanity is Avatar saying with deft eloquence and skill? Please regale me with your insights on this deep moving masterpiece of cinema.
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You're like that guy with the sandwich board telling us the world is going to end because aliens spelled it out in his cheetos. I mean, I can appreciate a dissenting opinion, but I get a little bored of a Crusade.But, if it suits you, continue to tell people what they think and feel about things is objectively wrong using your subjective swords of TRUTH, JUSTICE and CHEETOSGREASE!
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The Shit really hits the fan...
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AVATAR is awesome, jawdropping, and succeeds on absolutely every level except maybe mastering the non-regional American accent. Anyone calling this movie simple and saying that makes it dumb have obviously never seen STAR WARS, which was equally simple, equally earnest, and equally awesome in establishing an entire science fiction universe, its peoples and its religion. Fuck the haters, I love this movie and I hope it wins Cameron another shelf of Oscars.
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No, I don't believe it, but I wanted to yell something. STAR WARS was charming, quirky, emotionally satisfying and a classic in its own time. AVATAR on the other hand... has a lot of blue man-cats. Meow!
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the movie has more plot holes than tiger woods has mistresses. There are so many things that aren't explained in the movie. and the whole planet saving the na'vi from the humans from their stupid database tree is weak. That was the most lame way to end a fight, animals attacking technological advanced aircraft, get the fuck out of here. Special effects does not make a great movie. James Cameron didn't even bother creating original creatures. The rhyno like creatures looked acted just like rhyno's, the hyena like creatures looked and acted like hyena's, and the horses just looked like metallic versions of horses here on earth, the dragon creatures were modeled after pterydacal's. The whole white messiah story was lame. Jake Sully was never sympathetic towards the na'vi till he fucked the girl and still then he didn't warn the na'vi the humans were coming for them. Totally lame. Sully was screwed over by the military because they were to cheap to pay to fix his spine and he has absolutely no cyncism to the mercs and the corporation, come on man. And sigourny weaver's action was the worst of her career. There is nothing redeeming about the whole story. Its a white messiah story wrapped up with elements from other sci fi. The only thing original in the story was the avatar program.
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Your shit was tired years ago, son.
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Jan 12, 2010 11:55:57 PM CST
Actually, tigerking, even the "avatar program" wasn't original
by yackbacker
http://tinyurl.com/yz7dv7p
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liked it, but i wish i could have loved it.
- plotpoints too predictable and cliched.
- visuals are too derivative(miyazaki's nausicaa or laputa, anyone?)
- weak climax when compared to cameron's other climaxes
- a white guy becoming the savior to an entire other race, yet again???
praise the movie all you want. have no issue with it. have no issue with it being box office champ either. but surely all those points above are valid. be an objective fan, dont be a blind fanatic. -
Seriously, one of my friends summed it up the best. "I could not believe it was James Cameron. It feels like any big budget moron film like McG or Emerich would do. What's really sad is that District 9 feels like a James Cameron films. The James Cameron that made Aliens, Abyss, Terminator ect. Not the Titanic one. And how the fuck did they make the Titanic song WORSE in Avatar?" Quoted for truth.
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the terminator?
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"Soldier" were the two Ellison works that the lawsuit were about…
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jean-luc godard: "it's not where you take things from, it's where you take them to." and i came across similar quotes by kubrick, woody allen, jim jarmusch, wachowskis, etc.
ripping off other films is not the issue, the issue is cameron didnt take those influences far enough. you almost cannot hear cameron's voice in the film because it's burried by all the things he borrowed.
and i have to elaborate on avatar's battle scene... and one of the things i love about LOTR is the battles have a strategy to them. strategy is the skeletal structure onto which you can pile all your cool little action beats, thus making a battle scene feels grandeur and much more gratifying. it can make you feel like you're witnessing a chess play by two badass generals.
the battle in avatar makes me feel like i'm watching a scene devised by someone who has played way too many video games. it's a cool action moment here, a cool moment there, but there's no underlying overall plan to it all. it's all just duke them nuke them stuff till one side has got enough. and what's with the ground battle??? one second you see an army of horses charging in, and the next second it's gone without much playtime. how about some crazy maneuvers by the horse riders to get their shots in? how about them getting up on the trees and attacking the baddies from above? how about some air support for the ground troops? like i said, no strategy to it all. it's a battle, yes? even a pingpong player has to strategize if he seriously want to defeat his opponent.
i'm a huge fan of cameron's patented double climaxes. that's always the best moment in his films. avatar's climax fall short of what he did in previous films. to me. -
I thought you'd be at the theater catching AVATAR 3-D for the 9,000th time. JC loves you.
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...I think my point was pretty clear. I don't agree with you, IndustryKiller!. But it's all good, we don't always have to agree about everything.
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He's been posting inane bs in the last couple days.
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— but, do you and I agree that the visual aesthetic was… agreeable?
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...sometimes if I've been watching the same movies as you people. Like, maybe a large group of people from some alternate universe have found a conduit that allows them to post on the AICN talkbacks, thereby allowing them to attempt to subvert those of us in the "real" universe into thinking their craziness is "truth".
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It's a matter of taste- some people like McDonald's, others like something else. Nobody is wrong, you're not going crazy. You just happen to like a bad movie (KIDDING!) Sorry, I couldn't resist making a joke... but yeah, people like stuff others don't. C'est la vie.
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I don't agree with most of the complaints about the film. I sit here and wonder, "did they see the same film I saw"? Or, "were they just expecting to much?" Or, "did they see the film AT ALL?" Or, "why are these people trying so hard to get others to dislike this film to varying degrees?" The movie is a nice ride. It's a visual kick in the ass. And no matter how hard ANYBODY tries to convince me otherwise it DOESN'T, I repeat - DOES NOT - look like anything else. Proof of these is easy enough; ask somebody to name something that it looks like and they never can. Be it movie, cartoon or video game. You just get no answer. I saw the movie in IMAX 3D and I'm going to see it again in 2D (the way I'll be watching it at home for years to come) before it's out of the theater. I never once looked away from the screen. Never looked at my watch. Never got bored. Never got tired of watching the beauty on the screen for the entirety of the film. Do I think it's "the greatest movie of all time"? No. I do not. I'll give it a solid 9 out of 10 for production and execution with a 7 out of 10 for originality of story. I might have gone as low as 6 but I like the analogy of watercolor painting up above, so I moved it up a notch. But that's another thing where people are just talking out the side of their necks. The whole "there is nothing original about the story" thing. Really? You've seen a movie with floating mountains, a bioluminescent forest, ten foot tall blue aliens rendered in beautiful crystal clear cg before? Bullshit. Some of the complaints are valid. The battle did seem somewhat poorly planned and executed in cinematic terms. But then, really, it was just a bunch of BIG ASS ships trying to blow up a damn tree being defended by small flying critters (oh yeah, seen that a HUNDRED times! P'shh). Anyway, I'm not preaching the brilliance of Avatar. It's not perfect. It has flaws and Cameron has even admitted some of them. But it's visuals simply aren't one of them. .... my opinion of course.
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I am actually totally relaxed. And the comment about not getting people on these boards sometimes, while true, was also intended to be funny. I don't REALLY believe there's a conduit to an alternate universe. (whistles... *cough*... whistles....)
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..and don't proofread. Even though I know there's no damn edit button.... damn it.
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...that I DO think (spoilers - if you ain't seen it yet why are you still in all the Avatar threads, anyway?) both of the scenes where all the Na'vi sway back and forth is silly. That looked "cartoonish", which does not mean it looked like a cartoon. It just didn't look "real". That many beings would not sway back and forth in unison that perfectly. But that's about 1 minute of the movie. And I really did an "ugh" at one of the mother/healers hippie dippie lines... but I can't remember which one. Otherwise, I'm pretty complaint free. Might have other small issues when I see it again, but I doubt it.
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Avatar is probably his most enjoyable film, not his best.
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A V A T A RDomestic total: $436 million and countingWorldwide total: $1,3 billion and countingWhere are all the fuckheads that predicted that AVATAR will tank? Show yourselves, fuckheads! Now!
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Yeah, the whole Kum-bay-ya thing was cheese, but if they were all jacked in to the same consciousness (agh, I can't believe I'm typing this) it makes sense. The director's cut of the Abyss is by far my fave JC flick. (P.S. That scene where the rat breathes in the water still freaks me out a bit. )
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...thankfully, have slithered off under their rocks. My favorite was "Avatar will only be in theaters for one weekend". Hah! Love that one. Again, not being preachy about it. If it's not your thing, cool. That's totally respected from where I'm sitting. But the amount of hate and dire predictions thrown at this movie in the weeks leading up to it's release really were some new levels of internet crazy.
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..and I've thought about that too, the "collective consciousness". But it still didn't LOOK quite right to me on screen.Love the scene with the rat. Just re-watched Avatar for like, the 15th time last week on cable. Always love the movie, always think the end is silly.
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"It has flaws and Cameron has even admitted some of them."
what did cameron say? which flaws? i'm really curious to see what he has to say. thx. -
The simple story. I believe at one point somebody had posted a link to an interview or a video of him discussing it, but I have no idea how to find it. Anyway, to the best of my memory, he admits it's not an wholly original or new story and that that's not what he was setting out to do with this film. Apologies for not being able to remember more or find the source.
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...maybe HE didn't say "flaws", but it seems as if most people feel it is. Which he's copped to.
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cool to know that he admits it himself. if he knows it, he'll strive better for the sequel. hopefully.
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How many peeps stumped up cash to see it because they heard the story was good? Or because of the deux ex machina ending? Or because they think Sam Worthington is a great actor? Like I said, I have watched it on a 2-D screen at home, I have re-watched key scenes, and it just doesn't hold up at all on 2-D. The fact that about 70% of Avatar's total gross can be attributed to IMAX 3-D ticket sales backs me up - peeps were attracted to the new fangled 3-D presentation and Cameron's name, and almost nothing else. (btw if I actually liked the story after I downloaded the film, I would have gone to a theater to see it. I didn't).
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Jan 13, 2010 3:20:19 AM CST
Its funn what you say about "seeing a different film" Jaka
by industrykiller!
Cause I feel the exact same way. And I think it's the fact hat we are reading, instead of hearing, each others comments. Words on paper are so open to interpretation, I can't imagine what voice I occupy in your head when you read my comments and Im sure vice versa for you. It's probably much worse than it really is on all ouir parts. Part of me honestly wishes I could video conference with some of you guys and then post it to the talkbacks. In fact i think that would be a really cool idea and I bet people would watch given that 75% of the reason aint it cool is still on top is because of the talkbacks. It was probably make for some hilarious interesting viewing. I LOVE watching people debate film on screen and I love debating film, aint it cool offers me that outlet and I wish it could be even more personal than it is.
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Jan 13, 2010 3:32:03 AM CST
But seriously, can anyone defend this film on its merits?
by industrykiller!
Anything but the visuals? Characters? Directing? Writing? Because no one has done it yet. And don't just say "The writing was fine and it doesn't matter if it's derivative" and leave it at that. Explain, IN DETAIL, why it doesn't matter. Explain why Sullys story overcomes its hackneyed roots or something. Because I dont think it can be done. It has not, by even the most generous estimations, been done yet. THAT Avatar doesn't exist. Visuals are not enough people. Visuals are not enough. It might be enough to entertain you, but stop praising it as a good movie then. We are all adults, we should all, as intellectual beings, admit when something entertains us and when its genuine quality. I love cheesy 80's music, but I don't compare Adam Ant to Bob Dylan. Am I really living in an age with such a lack of pragmatism and so full of narcissism that if you like it it MUST be great art?
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i dont think i really need to defend my love for the film because other people dont like the script or think they could have done a better job or whatever but i have seen it 4 times :)and me and a few friends are planning on seeing it one more time this week before its gone. for me it was the love story between jake and neytiri and how it progressed. the mechs and banshees where cool but watching the two main characters interact made it for me. aside from that come on! your following a human on this adventure where he enters one of the most thought out alien worlds ever. he gets lost in the jungle hunted by strange alien creatures shows like star trek always pretended they had but could never deliver. you have a bad as villan in A FUCKING MECH, dragon type (kinda) creatures flying past floating mountains that look like they where pulled off a magic the gathering card. its not just thats it has cool visuals its that what theyre showing is beautiful and a perfect adventure movie. people fall in love, people die heroic deaths, theres a build up to a huge battle, the soundtrack all primal drums an shit starts beating as jake jumps on last shadow "Tell them toruk makto calls to them! You fly now, with me! My brothers! Sisters!" and then everyone starts jumping on their banshees and flying off!!!! YEAHHHH!!! :) soo fucked my eyeballs
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It's not what you tell, but HOW you tell it. And Cameron is the fucking man for that reason, because he can tell it like no other. I loved the movie, just as the rest of the world did. I'm sorry that you didn't.
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Shown the differences between the two, and his motivations for turning sides. Besides getting legs, and a leg-over. The two brothers reprisent both the warring factions. I'd have liked to see more of how being in his brothers avatar and living his life had changed him. Still good though!
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http://tinyurl.com/y87stch
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Cameron and Bigelow are not a bitter divorced couple, they are now close friends. She saw the first cut of Avatar and gave comments and he saw the first cut of Hurt Locker and gave comments. In fact he told her to do Hurt Locker in the first place.
Jesus. -
Avatar script? Uhh... no. No. Thanks anyway.
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I'm not going to complain about the writing of James Cameron when we have muppets like Kurtzman and Orci hammering out shit.
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You haters have forgoten what it's like to see a WELL MADE blockbuster.
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Exactly.
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Just so everyone will finally see Avatar for what it is. Come Christmas next year, expect a mulititude of reviews along the lines of; "As well as giving us a sumptuous look of Middle-Earth in 3-D, The Hobbit also gives us flesh and blood characters and an exciting timeless story, both of which were sorely missing from James Cameron's Avatar two years ago."
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These fools are comparing it to shit like Transformers, I mean did they even watch these movies, Some are making valid points, the story is simple, but why does that automatically mean it's bad? Most of the people I know love the story/movie because it's simple, but concise and easy to follow. People are sick of shit blockbusters trying to be clever like Transformers, Terminator Salvation, and Star Trek. Even The Dark Knight suffered from that. And again I'd love to know all these plot holes? Now if I want a great story I'll read a book, or wait to get such a movie at home, I don't want to go to a cinema, to watch something like There Will Be Blood, No Country For Old Men, or The Road, No thanks. Avatar is what Cinema was made for. End of.
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These fools are comparing it to shit like Transformers, I mean did they even watch these movies, Some are making valid points, the story is simple, but why does that automatically mean it's bad? Most of the people I know love the story/movie because it's simple, but concise and easy to follow. People are sick of shit blockbusters trying to be clever like Transformers, Terminator Salvation, and Star Trek. Even The Dark Knight suffered from that. And again I'd love to know all these plot holes? Now if I want a great story I'll read a book, or wait to get such a movie at home, I don't want to go to a cinema, to watch something like There Will Be Blood, No Country For Old Men, or The Road, No thanks. Avatar is what Cinema was made for. End of.
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Conspiracy touched on that earlier - while his 70-year old mom enjoyed Avatar greatly (10/10 is what he said), he admits that he rates it lower because he's jaded.
I have to admit too, when I rewatch LOTR, and depending on my mood, I get a little bored. And back in the day I thought it was the most amazing spectacle I'd ever seen.
Still, that takes nothing away from it being a truly great film, and the same applies to Avatar. Will I get bored in 3, 4 years time watching Avatar at home? Sure, after the 10th and 11th viewing. But I'll never forget how special the 1st time was. That will stay with me forever. -
haters are still faggots by the way
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And they go ahead and do it anyway? Who does that? Oh wait, I know. Children.
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thank you James Cameron for making that possible.
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spot on about LOTR too dude. My First viewing of Avatar I'll admit I was a little dissapointed at what was left out from the scriptment, just a couple of small extra characters padded out the world better, then I went and watched it again with a different group of friends, and just watched the movie, taking of my critic hat, and I fuckin loved it. I don't know why if I did I'd be a millionaire like Cameron. I'll admit I've watched a copy of Avatar to at home the other day with my nephews, and shockingly enough I still enjoyed it. Will I in 4 years? who knows, but by then we'll have Avatar 2, so who cares lol!
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spot on about LOTR too dude. My First viewing of Avatar I'll admit I was a little dissapointed at what was left out from the scriptment, just a couple of small extra characters padded out the world better, then I went and watched it again with a different group of friends, and just watched the movie, taking of my critic hat, and I fuckin loved it. I don't know why if I did I'd be a millionaire like Cameron. I'll admit I've watched a copy of Avatar to at home the other day with my nephews, and shockingly enough I still enjoyed it. Will I in 4 years? who knows, but by then we'll have Avatar 2, so who cares lol!
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Talk about sound advice.
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apologies for the double posts
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So much hype it's hard to go into a movie without a preconditioned POV. I blame Motoko. Hehe
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Yeah, lot of cliche' in the film but I love the Colonel Character and all the militaristic brass balls stuff. "It's my job to keep you alive. I will not succeed... with all of you." Great quotes in there.
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when he kicks open that door, not giving a fuck about the air, great stuff, cheesy and badass, and lol I blame myself as much as Motoko, I shouldn't have read the scriptment all them years ago. But I can understand why it's been simplified, and I think the just over a $billion BO proves it.
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James Cameron makes a badass sci-fi/adventure movie -- with coherent action scenes and a plot without so much of the useless padding that plagues films -- today that takes the act of moviegoing to the next level and they want to complain about a classical plot structure that has been used by everybody from the Four Apostles to James Fenimore Cooper to Frank Herbert. Can't win.
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Let's end the "simple plot" debate here. We all agree that great genre movies have used simple plots. Nobody should care that AVATAR wasn't THE USUAL MAN-CAT SUSPECTS. Moving on...
Storytelling, however, is the craft part of filmmaking. Good storytelling involves nuance, emotionally engaging your audience with strong characters and writing. Good storytelling in this genre specifically is about twisting your viewers along the road towards your conclusion-- these movies are emotional (not just visual) rollercoasters. In my opinion, AVATAR is not the product of good storytelling. The movie is dull- it does little with it's plot (see above) thus making it feel even more simplistic than other, similar movies. But hey, I'm in the minority, so I don't really worry what others think. Well, maybe a little, I mean I am here typing these words out with beads of sweat forming on my brow. I gotta go chew some gum now! -
TB is unwinnable. It's like trying to negotiate with arabs.
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You do realize it's only you and about three other people on the planet who believe the film looks like "cartoons," right? Stick to criticizing the story, you've got a better case to make. When you slam the film's special effects, you sound like one of those raving lunatics who's convinced their packet of instant apricot oatmeal is talking to them, and can't understand why nobody else hears it.
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If you "believe" someone posted a link to Cameron talking about something, but you "have no idea how to find it," maybe you shouldn't be making assertions about what he's "copped to." Just a friendly heads-up.
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District 9 was a revolution in that it proved that a great science fiction movie can be made with a limited budget and a great story.Avatar proved that if you take ideas from a dozen different movies and splice them together and put a nice shinny coat of Special effects on it you can make a billion dollars.Was district 9 perfect,no,but it was pretty damn good.Avatar was a bit on the cheesy side.Visually pleasing but still,you need more than that to be called a great movie.Its really too bad that there are millions of people out there that go for style over substance.
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Read the"script" for AVATAR?AICN does have a sense of humour after all.
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And I'm all for Avatar. I think both had style and substance. True, Avatar's approach to its story was more traditional than D9's, but the substance comes in the ideas the movie presents. Identity, the balance of science and religion, empathy. And it was a kickass, upbeat adventure, too, that also happened to make sweet love to your eyeballs. District 9 approaches things through a darker, grittier prism, and that works, too. But the success of District 9's narrative was just as reliant on style as Avatar was. There's a reason people praise Blomkamp. The man has style and ideas to spare.
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Colonel Fatheart has a sense of humour. "Identity, the balance of science and religion, empathy." Hilarious. Well done, sir.
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I know we disagree, but that gave me a chuckle.
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Having seen AVATAR now, I honestly have to say that in terms of "ideas", the story balances Dances With Wolves and Pocahontas, with strong elements of Ferngully.
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Jan 13, 2010 11:24:10 AM CST
What do priests buy when they get wafers from Amazon?
by colonelfatheart
http://tinyurl.com/ygqb9zl
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that has to be a joke, reminds me of the World of Warcraft one.
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I was a little disappointed the first time. I loved the movie the 2nd time and had trouble caring about any of the 'flaws' I thought were so important the first time I saw it. In fact, it seemed to flow together so much better the second time. For whatever it's worth.
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Was really good, would have made me like Sully more. Everything was cool except the antelope legs in the World Cup soccer... that was a bit over sci-fi for me.
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Maybe you shouldn't take this all so seriously. I don't. It was posted in one of these Avatar talkbacks. Apologies for not having a photographic memory and a go back machine so I can find it. (shrug) And I'm so tired of snobbish asstards calling other people simple because we like different things. Get over yourselves. Some people don't like it, some people do. It's doesn't put either group into a pigeonholed stereotype unless we let it. And I don't. Moving on ---->
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Jan 13, 2010 4:32:04 PM CST
People just want others to agree with them
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
That's really what's going on here. People are weak. Those either too bitter or faux-cynical to like Avatar, or those for whom it simply didn't gel, simply cannot bear the thought of being left out in the cold or are jealous of the movie's success (as well as resentful of being proven embarrassingly wrong). Therefore, we get lame ducks trying to convince everyone else that the movie was shit, or that people are going to 'wake up' and turn on Avatar over time. It's horseshit, and it speaks volumes about these individuals. The movie didn't work for you - that's perfectly acceptable, but don't think you speak for any other individuals or groups.It's entirely objective that Avatar has been an inordinately huge success, visually groundbraking, popular with audiences, popular with the majority of critics and, dare I say it, objectively speaking its a terrific and highly accomplished movie. Does it have flaws? Of course - all movies, no matter how good, do. You can take any critical angle of attack on a piece of work. However, most of these dimwits and smartasses lack the cinematic or scriptwriting knowledge to properly pinpoint these flaws, and are instead reduced to repetitive and inane (not to mention vague) points (ie. the story's 'unoriginal' or 'too simple' - both of which have no bearing on a movie's quality), mouthy sloganeering, or just plain convoluted nonsense. Laying your two cents on the table is fine, but those who post the same spiteful mantras or convoluted arguments over and over, in the vain hope of telling the rest of us the 'facts' or what to think, can fuck off. And if you don't like that, you can suck my big, blue, foot-long Na'vi schlong.
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it was a special effects event with soul but that was mainly due to worthington and saldana. if u ask me sigourney was bland. like she forgot how to act.
cameron is not the messiah in film making. he is just in a good position to make these gigantic blockbusters because look at his competition right now. most hollywood movies of this scope are completely retarded (transformers). whereas this film was kinda just mediocre as far as storytelling.
i'd like to see cameron do a small budget independent film without all the dazzling distractions.
avatar: great action sequences. stunning imagery. not as revolutionary as it claims to be. a step forward tho for sure. gotta hand it to cameron for at least bein innovative.
so many betters films came out last year tho. -
Jan 13, 2010 4:51:33 PM CST
thesmilingpsycho, Worthington gave it soul but Weaver was bland?
by mattmanreturns
Huh... that's a first. IMO it was quite the opposite. Hell, I liked Michelle Rodriquez's character better than Worthington's. Although that might be because of the tanktop, not sure.
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I think I went in wanting to find the flaws, having read the script, and over-saturated myself on the trailers and shit, I new I wasn't in for many big suprises, (maybe Graces death) so I remember just being dissapointed there was no Earth shots or Giant flying Jellyfish, and such.Second viewing I just sat back and watched it and enjoyed it much more.
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well to me worthington just played it much more natural. he already fit the character so granted he probly didn't have to do much acting but i thought his performance was very subtle. sigourney was just okay. sometimes felt like she was just reading dialogue.
haha rodriguez when will she ever play a different character? oh well at least she is a pro at it. and yes damn sexy too. -
After Wednesday, it'll need 155 million to beat Titanic. That should happen in February. Worldwide before the next batch of numbers, it stands now to be 469 million behind Titanic. That should also happen in Feb if not before. I hope Avatar makes more then Titanic, because Titanic will bring in more when it's re-released in 3D, probably beating Avatar. Interesting battle for #1.
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just to play a specific character. Kinda like that Agent Aaron Pierce guy on 24. Only a woman. And sexy.
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she dies either. u always see it comin
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in boiling tobasco sauce?
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Jan 13, 2010 11:56:59 PM CST
'name me one shot that took your breath away with it's technical
by quantize
What kind of fucking loser retard are you...if you were even vaguely impressed with Jake going into those falls then you are a fucking wanker. Grow the fuck up.
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Jan 13, 2010 11:57:49 PM CST
'name me one shot that took your breath away with it's technical
by quantize
What kind of fucking loser retard are you?...if you weren't even vaguely impressed with Jake going into those falls then you are a fucking wanker. Grow the fuck up.
this shithole needs an edit button -
Cameron had a massive budget that most directors will never approach and he could have taken that money and his much vaunted technology and created a truly gorgeous and cerebral science fiction film that would have been an immediate classic. Instead, what we got wasn’t merely derivative, it was bombastically contrived to such a degree that calling it science fiction is a slight to the genre. It’s a stupid film with not a single original scene, character or moment and held together tenuously by special effects that wear out their welcome a third of the way through. True, some shots were amazing but after 20 minutes of dragon riding I needed something a bit more substantial. Avatar is a lightshow and nothing more and what continues to aggravate me is that for whatever reasons defenders call this film genius while trashing other movies for doing the exact same thing. As for the script, it’s shit. The film is literally riddled with plot holes and logical inconsistencies, including the fact that in the future humanity’s weaponry has apparently regressed for no apparent reason. (Even with contemporary weapons the Navi should have been toast) Also, why in the fuck would they take a Navi/Avatar into their society and expose all of their secrets and customs knowing whom he worked for? I could literally spend hours ripping apart the script and the film because it’s that poorly constructed; every scene and every line of dialogue serves only to set up the next FX shot, which makes this film every bit as shallow as Transformers, Wolverine, or any other summer blockbuster you can name. I guess at the end of the day I’m a “hater” because I loathe this flick.
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Considering the academy didn't even nominate Dark Knight last year, the notion of this film getting a nod makes me ill.
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thanks for the rant...fully warned now that you are indeed a humorless cretin.
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If you state a logical and precise argument for why you DON'T like a film that geeks have decided to embrace, then you're a hater.It's that simple.Doesn't matter that what you're saying makes complete sense, and is pretty much obvious to anyone who isn't on Cameron's dick.I don't hate Avatar like I hate GI Joe, but the quality level in scriptwriting is equal. It also doesn't help that Avatar has this borderline-racist undertone of the "white man savior", but I guess people on aintitcool ain't tryin to hear that.
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Ah, and the debate rages on.
There are always going to be differences of opinion because people are different (duh) so as a talkback post this is in no way intended to change anyone's mind or opinions on Avatar. I post simply to try and shed some light on why there actually are people of substance and intellect who might have enjoyed the film: It tells a simple story with a great amount of heart, spirit, fun, beauty and grandeur.
This is the reason Avatar will endure beyond its effects and why Transformers movies and their ilk will be forgotten. It's also the reason why it's rather universally popular among a great many people in the wide world.
Is the story simplistic? Is it composed of a collection of ideas, themes, characters, and concepts that have been tried and tested many times through cinematic and storytelling history? Yeah, but that's often not a problem when it comes to making a good movie. It might turn some people off (and understandably) who only strive for the completely new, but many, many, many, MANY people enjoy and appreciate a retelling of a classic tale no matter how many similarities it has with its progenitors. I mean the world embraced Disney's Sleeping Beauty after Snow White was already a classic, right?
Are the characters thinly drawn? Some are. I quite enjoyed the journey of Jake and Neyteri and thought their affection for each other and discovery of what each other were capable of was well portrayed. Many of the other side characters were stock types and tropes and could have certainly been fleshed out a bit better - particularly the villains. But in an adventure movie, people are usually pretty willing to accept the classic "evil to the core" character type, and often the other side characters get sacrificed for the sake of clarity and keeping the narrative uncluttered.
Plot holes? Not so much. People generally cry "plot hole" whenever there's something in a script that they personally don't like or think is dumb. Human technology not as strong as you'd think? We're told the Na'vi are structurally stronger than humans, so what if it's hard to take them down. Why did the Na'vi trust Jake? Maybe they were just trying to get along - geesh. I can understand personal gripes with specific things, but plot holes are things that were mistakes and/or make zero technical sense no matter how you swing it.
Racism? Yeah there's some truth in the "white man savior" complaint, but that will be the same trouble in all films forever as long as white people write movies. Writers most frequently just put themselves in the hero role. At least in Avatar, the "other" race is celebrated so much that it counter-balances the complaint a bit.
Scriptwriting? Some cheesy dialogue to be sure, but also some solid narration and a some good lines among the banter. Typical adventure movie fare. But the script as a whole benefits from pacing and the sheer quantity of cool sequences. If you were bored and tuned out, it was clearly not your thing. But most who were sucked in were carried along by a well thought out, sensicallly sequenced narrative that unravelled and reconstructed Jake's opinions of Pandora in a systematic and believable way.
And THAT's the simple narrative at the core of the film. It's what worked best in the script and what has won the hearts of millions, and if there's a masterstroke here beyond the technology, then that's it. In an age where plots can be as all-over-the-map and nonsensical as something like Revenge of the Fallen, it's refreshing to have a narrative charged simply by discovery of a new place. Viewers felt Jake's wonder and loved becoming part of the Na'vi with him. That the plot progressed to feature the heartbreaking destruction of that world as well as its action-packed triumph, well that's certainly predictable enough, but also generally gratifying enough to complete a solid film for all who enjoyed the discovery journey.
Avatar may not be one of the best movies of all time, but it IS a success, and the reason is the marriage of great technology/effects with a solid heart and simple but powerfully rendered story. If it were only the effects and nothing beneath them, we would not be watching these records break day after day. It would make tons of money and then be forgotten like so many soulless spectacles before it. But add in that essential element of heart, spirit, and the joy of discovery that so many films neglect these days, and you have a movie that deserves the legacy it creates.
I'm all for more cerebral sci-fi films and embrace the Moons and District 9s of the decade with open arms, but there's always a place in my viewer's admiration for simple adventure cinema in the hands of a master craftsman. And that seems to be the stance for many box office patrons out there. If it that differentiates from your own taste in movies, that's perfectly fine, but do those of us who enjoyed Avatar a small favor and at least don't assume we're mindless morons for liking something you didn't ;) -
How do you make paragraph breaks around here?
(Loooong time reader, but haven't posted much)
Thanks! -
..and that's it. Now I understand completely that in order to test drive his CGI technology, Cameron had to hang the whole thing on the nearest off-the-shelf plot. But it's a shame he didn't try to make an actual movie. Watching meaningless CGI without any kind of story gets extremely tedious. Check out 'UP' to see how to make a movie that's ALL about story and character.
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and for paragraphs type without the spaces
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Closest I can think of is Laura Dern going through the dinosaur shit in Jurassic Park. Does that count?
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Appreciated, UGG.
It worked! -
Greatly overrated. Shakespeare probably never wrote anything original--all based on previous work. And every single movie you guys claim Cameron "ripped off" was itself a retread of previous ideas. If you aren't familiar with the older work and myth, that's your problem. It's turtles all the way down, dudes. There's nothing new. There's just the telling of the story in an engaging way. And plenty of smart, educated, aware people loved Avatar. Doesn't make it good--but your personal disdain doesn't make it bad, either.
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Why are some of you defending Cameron's script? It's not like he's paying you any of the money he's making.I'm sure intelligent people liked Avatar, but there's only a basic correlation between general intelligence and film appreciation.My father (for example) is super intelligent, but he doesn't know shit about film. So his opinion on film is pretty much worthless to anyone who's looking for a respectable opinion.Intelligence doesn't reach into everything; you have to be intelligent about something. And if you're intelligent about film, I don't see how you'd find Avatar's script powerful and compelling because the script is not intelligent.plain and simple.
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