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Showrunners Cuse & Lindelof Talk The Final Season Of LOST!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
James Hibberd at the Hollywood Reporter has a new interview with “Lost” showrunners Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse focusing on the series’ final season. Highlights:
* Pilot director and series co-creator J.J. Abrams will not be involved in writing or directing the series finale.
* The final season will focus on the Jack-John relationship. (Which I guess means John Locke is no longer dead?)
* Both Lindelof and Cuse seem convinced Disney will eventually concoct some sort of sequel, prequel or remake of the series. (In the new novel “Under The Dome,” Stephen King makes reference to a sequel to “Lost” airing in the near future titled “The Hunted Ones.”)
* Lindelof’s favorite season is one; Cuse’s is five.
Find all of the interview here.
Find a larger version of the photo above here.
New episodes of “Lost” return to ABC Feb. 2.
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He's the one who will save them all.
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...that is all. Except to point out that they've just ripped off the Galactica Last Supper poster. Better give Lost a better ending than BSG had...
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It's about time Season 6 is starting.
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...for the second time. On season 2 episode where Shannon gets shot. Man, they've got so many loose ends to tie up, not sure how they're gonna do it. I'm absolutely convinced though that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard. In the season 1 episode where they discover the bodies, one of them has two stones on them...they may even be blackjack pieces. One is black and one is white.
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...for the second time. On season 2 episode where Shannon gets shot. Man, they've got so many loose ends to tie up, not sure how they're gonna do it. I'm absolutely convinced though that Adam and Eve are Rose and Bernard. In the season 1 episode where they discover the bodies, one of them has two stones on them...they may even be blackjack pieces. One is black and one is white.
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comingsoon.net has both of them. here's the link: http://www.comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=62104
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One they're all looking forward, the other, all staring at Locke, and Claire and Miles have switched sides. Just finishing up the Season 5 blu ray I got for Christmas, can't wait for this show to start back up (kinda sad this is it, though, but what a ride).
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Sam Mendes as director for Bond 23.
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...than the Last Supper motif for the ensemble cast...and I like it every time.
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I thought we all agreed that he'd wear the vest from now on
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why season 5 and 6 SUCK...
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Man, season 6 can't come soon enough. Just finished watching the 8 min recap/refresher from ABC and jackalcack is right. They have a shitload of loose ends to answer.
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Jan 05, 2010 5:43:16 PM CST
I hope the last season IS NOT all about Locke, Jack, and Ben
by hollywoodhellraiser
God, I hope they don't make it like most series finale where nothing is answered and more questions are thrown in!If they can bring it close to the spectacular series finale of Angel than I'll be very happy!
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FUCKING SHOW EVER!!
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but I hate how they introduced Jacob so late in the game and everything I've heard about this season seems pretty retarded. I really hope they prove me wrong though.
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Dull as hell and right behind him is Ben Linus. Why lost ever focused an entire season on those two is beyond me. Lets also not foget Juliett, a character so awful she completely ruined Sawyer. God I hate what lost became.
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as a promo shot for the final season fills me with dread. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be as bad as BSG's final season...
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Most fun I've had watching a television show since The X-Files.
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they refer to must be an alt timeline...right?
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vs Locke's devil avatar. The Lost Supper image is epic.
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Heroes has been intolerable since the end of the first season. Pray for Fringe and Flash Forward to continue after Lost concludes. I have a great fondness for Warehouse 13 as well...
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Can we get Cuse and Lindelof to go into the movie writing business?
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Coming January 2011, "Lost - the Next Generation", followed in a few years by "Lost -Dharma Station 9", then "Lost Voyagers", and finally the prequel series from Berman/Braga entitled "Island". I really hope another Michael Bolton wannabe is available to do that theme song.
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Jan 05, 2010 6:59:00 PM CST
I really respect Linelof's answer about episodes that suck
by philipmarlowe
I will finish watching the series without feeling like such a manipulated tool. He tells us how and where they went wrong and what they tried to do about it. That is all I ask.
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so can someone just tell me if they said whether or not Claire will be doing this season topless in that goth wig, a miniskirt, and knee high black combat boots ? Because if so, I better start resting my dick right now.
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Hundreds of unanswered questions
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Hate to break it to you guys saying Lost is ripping off the BSG poster, but shows have been doing this since fucking M.A.S.H. Hell The Sopranos did it right before BSG. Not to mention similar posters done for The Simpsons, South Park, and Star Wars to name a few more. So get over it because it's not new.
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...I would not agree that Jack is a bad character. I would say he's a bad person, selfish, self-centered and with almost no empathy. I think it's the show's seeming insistence in presenting him as a hero that makes you think otherwise. But increasingly over the course of last season I began to feel that maybe that was part of a plan. It will be interesting to see how old Jack winds up at the end of the show.
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And I want to hang it up on my wall. End of discussion.
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First time they've done it for a good show.
Buuuuuuurn.
No, but seriously, I knew they had done it for BSG. I just don't care as much for that show as I do for LOST. It's kinda my favorite thing ever. -
Did you even read my post? I don't give a fuck about BSG. I was slamming the moron BSG fanboys who think BSG broke the mold on Last Supper symbolism.
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they aren't going to be solved. but jin and sun will HUG! HOORAY! What the deal is with time travel smoke monsters why they were brought to the island expeirments on children the numbers the flash of light etc... doesn't matter.
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Leonardo da Vinci painted the 'Last Supper' or 'Il cenacolo' for Duke Ludovico 'the Dark' Sforza capturing the moment when Jesus informed his 12 apostles (note there are 13 in the pic..the extra person in the pic being on the right. Frank) ..that one would betray him to his death.
In the da Vinci painting:
http://tinyurl.com/origpaint
~
the ordination of the seated (as opposed to head order) from Left to Right is:
* Bartholomew (Ilana) - Flayed and then crucified
* James the Less (Richard) - Beaten to Death
* Andrew (Claire) - Bound upon a Crux decussata..and the patron saint of Scotland. bonnie.
* Peter (Sayid) - The Rock..First to recognize Jesus true identity, defended Jesus with an edged weapon, in fear denied him, first to enter the tomb..Had a special bond with James the Greater and John (Sawyer and Jin?) ..crucified by Nero.
* Judas Iscariot (Kate) - Betrayer of Jesus, and a philosophical conundrum of free will versus determinism. Suicide.
* John (Sawyer) - So much..too much to read into the position here..interesting to note that legend says John never died but was left to wait for the return of Jesus second coming.. ( remem ep 5.8 LaFleur) ..also the brother of James the Greater.
* Jesus (John) - Man, if any character has a God Complex...well, yep.
* Thomas (Jack) - When Jesus assured his disciples that he knew what he was is doing, Thomas protested that he did not know at all..(and how bout that little teaching moment Ben gave Jack in the Church about Thomas) .." and The Apostles cast lots as to where they should go, and to Thomas, twin brother of Jesus, fell India...after performing many miracles, he dies a martyr." If Jack Shepherd dies doing Doctory charity work in India..I am going to hunt down Darlton and punch'em in the marbles..or muss their hair ..no thats out..ok, spray'em with silly string one or the other. maybe both.
* James the Greater (Jin) - Wrote a whole post back in the nodes bout the relationship of St. James and St. John (Sawyer) ..the Boanerges, the 'Sons of Thunder', the 'Saintly Brothers of Martyrdom' ...executed by a Roman via edged weapon.
* Philip (Ben) - "So a sister..you have a sister" ..funny, legend has it that Philip introduces Bartholomew to Jesus. Tortured. Crucified upside down
* Matthew (Hurley) - the gatherer, the tax collector..wealthy, yet despised in the manner in which he acquired it. hmmpf. May have lived a long life and died peacefully.
* Jude Thaddeus (Sun) - patron saint of desperate and lost causes. uh-oh. Dies bloody with Simon. martyred.
* Simon the Zealot (Miles) - the listener. Death by saw.
Well, this bodes no well for a lollypop and unicorn ending just it don't. Then again, maybe a publicity photo is jus a publicity photo..
To mention again, it is interesting to note that in every language but English, the name James is Jacob. -
lame
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Nothing much is as bad-ass as a hunting Locke. Someone needs to say "I'm hungry" and then Locke needs to show up with a polar bear dragging behind him. And a single, bloody knife in his other hand. Hope I won one of those USB sticks in a bottle.
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It's been a long road,
To get from there to here.
It's been a long time,
but my time is finally here.
And I will see my dream
come alive at last.
I will touch the sky.
And they're not gonna hold
me down no more.
No they're not gonna change
my mind.
'Cause I've got faith of the heart.
I'm going where my heart
will take me.
I've got faith to believe.
I can do anything.
I've got strength of the soul.
And no one's going to bend
or break me.
I can reach any star.
I've got faith,
Faith of the heart.
Thank you for reminding me of the Enterprise theme song. MADE-MY-DAY! -
the Lost ending tied into Fringe? What if the island was a proving ground for soldiers in the fight against soldiers from alternate dimensions. Jacob is the Commandant, Ben the Drill Sgt... I would not be shocked
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Because David Fury wrote the best episodes (Walkabout particularly), and for the rest of the season, Lindelof just made shit up just to keep the audience guessing.
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Lost is original and I understand why he made this little dig at other shows, but... Abrams is the worst offender! The Fringe Files, anyone?
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Where have any of you LOST fans been the whole summer? We've been keeping shit going the whole time since the finale:
http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/41067
Plus, Hobo's right, fuckin Sopranos have used TLS before BSG.
Excluding Maxfaux...kinda. -
Name over 20 unanswered questions from that season. Ask any that haven't been answered do far.
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Jan 05, 2010 10:47:53 PM CST
I want a Venture Brothers Last Supper mock up!
by spifftacular squirrel girl
Besides that, here's to hoping that Lost final season holds up and will be a lot of fun.
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You're a moron too.
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Good idea. Just dont bash people cause LOST did it first....(*cough)
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how the hell does SEASON 6 freakin suck when it has'nt even AIRED YET?? typical LOST TROLL....
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they dont answer any questions, its not JUST LIKE season 1 anymore, it sucks because- insert lame accusation here-, MY favorite show is better, me no can follow their "horribly complex" storyline BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...
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flat out boring, so spending all the time w/ him was painful. For me there was nothing worse than watchin jack trying for 2 months to figure out what Ben Linus' real name was. I get that Jack was kinda thrust in the "leader" position by the islanders despite having character issues and I'm fine w/ that, but dull isn't worth my time.
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Evangeline is great to watch, but I can understand why she's considering quitting acting. 1st season she's an Alias-wannabe, and the rest she's a moping, whining, "Oh Jack, Oh Sawyer" lost cause. She deserves better!
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and the other poster shows that Claire and Miles switch sides on the table
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Jacob was referenced as early as season 2 by Mr. Friendly, Ben, and others. In season 3 he had a name. In season 4, he began about some business. We met him in person in season 5.
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Lindelof created the core mythology and skeletal plot that will be s6. Cuse helped fix a few things, add more things, and fill in some gaps. And the core writers have been moving towards that goal ever since they were given full steam ahead by ABC during s3. And they've known the ending since the late stages of season 1. And Matthew Fox has known what the final image of the show is since about the mid part of season 2.
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There was at least one other genre show, but its name escapes me at the moment.
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Lindelof produced the new Star Trek film, and is co-writing the sequel as we speak
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the whispers, the numbers, the smoke monster, the adam and eve skeletons, the end-game, the black rock ship, more on jacob, finality with ALL the characters
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with examples from the show. You're talking about Jack Shephard, right?
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Locke is dead dude. :(
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Sayid and Ben are staring at each other and NOT Locke, Lapidus seems to be looking at Ilana, and Sayid and Hurley both have skulls underneath their feet (along with skeletons strewn throughout on the ground). And what Dharma station is that? Is that a turret coming out of the top, or a partially destroyed pipe, that goes along with the other pipes to the station? I think Sun is looking at Jin, but it could be Locke. Richard Alpert is the only one wearing a redshirt.. does that mean he is not long for the world?
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Not sure if these super short clips are showing up all over ABC or what, but I noticed that there was a quick clip for the sixth season on tonight's Better Off Ted. It was a clip of Charlie asking "where the heck are we?" They appeared to still be on an island, but what is Charlie doing there?? Can't wait!!
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That teaser with Charlie was from season 1. There will be no footage of season 6 before the air date, sadly. On a side note, I AM SO FUCKING PUMPED. I'm currently re-watching Season 5 I got for X-Mas. I have full faith in Cuse and Lindelof
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Ah, you may be right. I guess it's been a long time since watching season one, I got confused. I didn't think they were releasing new footage, but knowing how Lost likes to throw people for a loop, I got suckered by the clip. Either way, I can't wait to find out what happens.
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All the crazy island mythology stuff, we love it, but it's like terrorists attacking Jack Bauer -- it's stuff that happens in order to tell cool character stories.
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further to my last post, am a bit worried, same of the comments from the guys sounds a little too similar to Ron Moore for my liking.
Please learn the lessons from BSG. -
I want something like that. It'd piss everyone else off, but I'd love it.
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Of course I don't want all of them solved, there needs to be some mystery that remains.
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Could perceive that the final shot would be of smiling, happy Jack and the camera focuses is on his eye closing.
Part of me would love to see a Six Feet Under style ending, including seeing a grown up Ji Yeon, Aaron and Charlie hume.
The Dark Tower type ending would be, with the last shot being the first shot of the first episode, Jack's eye opening.
Anyway lots to be excited about, can't wait -
The writers have often mentioned that Dark Tower was a heavy influence. It probably won't happen, but that'd be sick.
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Jan 06, 2010 3:25:59 AM CST
I've been watching the show again to intro it to the GF,
by iamnicksaicnsn
and she's addicted, thoroughly. But I've noticed how the tone shifted so quickly by the end of Season 3 and continuing on into Season 4. It seems like as soon as they found out Season 6 would be it, they really started getting their shit together. Things that pissed me off about the last Season Finale (that I didn't have the balls to ask them about when I met em at the Lost Art Gallery Show - I was tired and it was hot with all the people in there, I forgot I wanted to confront them...): How the hell can they introduce Jacob this late in the game? Obviously not the entity of Jacob, but the actor, and the fact that he has this crazy ass backstory that clearly could have been hinted at the ENTIRE SERIES without giving away that it was Jacob. If Locke is really dead, then they jerked us around the entire Season 5: Just as it seems he finally has his shit together, he's dead?? Way to fuck over the character guys. If Ilana's group is a new group unrelated to the previous factions we've seen before, I'm going to be a little peeved. I was also offended that Jack has been jerked around so much. That he hasn't been able to catch a break. That in so many instances he just went along with the way things were without wanting to ask questions. That last bit I think really screwed him over. And yes, I will concede that throughout the entire show it has set him up to be the struggling lonely leader, but he's still the "hero," give him a little break.
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Lost without a doubt is the most analysed (some would say overanalysed) tv show ever, if the actor would have been in one frame at anytime in the last 5 seasons, someone would have worked it out. They may sound rediculous, but this is Lost.
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From season to season the story just becomes bigger and bigger. Look at the focus of the story in season 1 compared to 5, almost like different worlds. From a Supposedly story, with some complex characters and some mystery to a much more complex story, more complex characters and similar levels of mystery.
In season 2/3 we may thought it was all about a war brewing between Widmore and Ben. Jacob was some guy above it all, like a god. But now we see its about two "gods" Jacob and MIB/Flocke. Perhaps in season 6 we will find that there is something above them. -
correction to my last post "supposedly simple story" not "supposedly story".
Wish there was an edit function, but think there is a better chance of finding out Libby's story than that happening. -
inside of a snow globe.
BAM! DONE! Ending, Print it. -
I am about a quarter into the book and man oh man, it's terrific! It's a MUST-READ for anyone who enjoys sci-fi/horror/creepy stories. Worth a check out, fo sho!
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Yes, indeed, her very beautiful tits.
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Only way to end a series now that the bar is so high
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Jan 06, 2010 7:38:23 AM CST
Im only 1 third through the Dark Tower I Gunslinger audio book!
by themanwhocan
And so far it has EVERYTHING!highly recommended! Maybe ill get through the entire series before Lost comes back it may give me some clue as to what will happen. I like the nods King and the lost writers give each other, clever clever bastards!
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vampires working in an ad agency and one of them is a serial killer - who cooks meth in his spare time
I think they could actually pull that shit off!
seriously, tho, they talk of some new narrative device and I am reminded of an idea someone brought up waaaaaay back in maybe season TWO?
that they're not really flashbacks (or flashforwards) in the traditional sense - that the characters are actually the present day versions and are completely LUCID as they experience the flashback/forward because it teaches them something important - gives them some sort of contextual framework in order to make the right decision they are faced with...
...not unlike what happens to Desmond when he becomes unstuck in time in S4
nah... probably won't be that - maybe they'll just break out into song and dance? -
If you've watched the show and want to check out shit you might not have thought about and a whole bunch of other cool stuff, I definitely recommend checking the rewatch on Chud. I know I mentioned this in another thread yesterday, but it's well worth repeating. The guy has done an excellent job with his recaps.
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This is a list of things to watch besides the show it's self that the writers consider part of the story. You don't need this extra stuff but I found watching everything to be satisfying.So this is the order to watch things if you decide to rewatch the show and want a few more details that are considered part of the story...
1. Watch Season 1
2. Watch Season 2
3. Alvar Hanso/Dharma/Numbers video - This was part of "the lost experience" between seasons 2 and 3. While the lost experience it's self is not part of the story. Producers have confirmed that the 1st part of this video with Hanso and Dharma and Numbers is. The 2nd part of the video with the girl hiding with the camera don't watch. Just the 1st 4mins/ hanso portion matters with the show...
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Sri_Lanka_Video
4. Watch Season 3
5. Lost: Missing Pieces - These are minisodes that provide small bits of new info on events for seasons 1-3. They are in the bonus features of season 4 dvd. Watch these before season 4. Some are pointless but still fun. They were mainly made because Michael was coming back to the show and they wanted to somehow feature more with him along with more of what Juliet was doing during seasons 1 and 2. Some good stuff with Vincent the dog and when the others had Walt. Here is a link if you want to watch them online, just scroll down to the 1st one. 13 total...
http://lostmobisodes.blogspot.com/
6. Orchid Orientation film outtake. In the season 4 finale you see most of the orientation film. This clip provides a little more though then whats seen on the actual show...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bTvAUVPyLI&feature=player_embedded#
7. Watch Season 5
8. Mysteries of the Universe the Dharma Initiative - 5 part unsolved mysteries type 1980's conspiracy theory show. Provides more info on Dharma. Creators did this because there not sure how much more of Dharma they will have on the show. It's on the season 5 dvd bonus features. If you watch online you need to select part 1. Part 5/final part starts playing right when you go to the page..
http://abc.go.com/shows/lost/lost-mysteries.
9. Read The letter of Truce between Horace Goodspeed/Dharma and Richard Alpert/Island Natives. The front is Goodspeeds letter with Alperts notes. The back of the letter is Alperts changes. Here is the link...
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Truce
10. Finally... Season 6!
11. Cry that Lost is over.
Namaste! -
Jan 06, 2010 9:21:00 AM CST
YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OFTHE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME...
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
..but you can't please all of the people all of the time.Expect the last talkback of this show to be filled with people moaning. Not everyone will like the ending. I don't even know what it is but i can certainly guarantee that.
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I am half way done with Under the dome. It gets better.
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Can not wait. Bout to get the 5th season on dvd and watch it with my wife this weekend.
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Jan 06, 2010 9:34:19 AM CST
"some sort of sequel, prequel or remake of the series."
by jeffmansixtyfo
I'll settle for a LOST ride @ Disneyland.
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and it was all a dream!
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That's never been done before!
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...he's selfless and self-centered. Yes, it's a contradiction. That's why he cries all the time.
Also, Locke is dead. He'll be back in the sense the other dead characters will (alternate timeline), but that's it. -
I always assumed the whispers was simply an acoustic oddity of the island where, in certain places, you can almost hear conversations from miles away. Stand in the right place, with the wind blowing from the right direction, and you can hear a whisper of a conversation taking place in the Other's compound.
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Were shown to be the Others multiple times.
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Being contrarian for contrarian's sake doesn't make you edgy or different. It kind of makes you come across as a dick. The question is begged: why do you watch the show if the character piss you off so much?
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...how disappointed I will be if Season 6 involves the creation of an alternate timeline? (I've made this rant before and nobody seems convinced).
I just rewatched Season 5 on Blu-Ray, and am now more convinced than ever that "what happened happened" is the rule, regardless of what Daniel finally said and Jack believed.
Daniel says "we are the variables" and implies that because humans have free will, they can do big things that change the timeline (like set off nuclear bombs). The show seems to want us to be open to the possibility that Juliet setting off the bomb could make it so the incident never happened and 815 never crashed.
But the problem is, we've been shown again and again that Jack, Sawyer, et al have ALWAYS BEEN part of the 1970s timeline. In order for their setting of the bomb to create an alternate timeline, or change history, there would have to have been an original version of the timeline where our guys never went into the past. But as we've seen, the post-seventies version of the timeline already has Jack and them in it:
Charlotte remembers Daniel telling her to leave the island.
Miles remembers his father putting him on the sub.
Sun sees the picture of Jack, Kate, and Hurley at the initiation.
Daniel's mother remembers shooting Daniel.
Richard remembers watching Jack, Sawyer, etc, dying.
All of these incidents are ALREADY part of the timeline--the one in which O-815 crashed. Therefore, our guys' involvement in the seventies, ending with their setting off the bomb, CANNOT create an alternate timeline--it's what has led to the REGULAR timeline.
I guess I'll just have to wait four weeks and see what they come up with. I will be disappointed if S6 is a new timeline--not only because it won't make sense from a time travel logic point of view based on the show's own rules, but because it would be disappointing from a character point of view to have invested five years in getting to know characters, and then have a reset button hit so those five years mean nothing. Nevertheless, Damon and Carlton have given us five amazing years, and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt (for now) that they know what they're doing. -
When 90% of fans vowed to never come back....they all lied. Every last one.
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Much better.
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The two most important and pivotal characters on the show!
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As far as I'm concerned, the only true variables right now are Jacob and Esau. Can you say Deus Ex Machina!
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But ghost Claire will.
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But there are numerous ways that the real Locke (Not the one that The Man in Black is controling) could be on the show and that his character will find redemption. Darlton said in that interview that EVERY character WILL have a begining, middle and end to their arc and that every character will find some sort of redemption. I have faith that Darlton has a plan and that they won't crap on Locke.
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He has all the answers, no doubt about it!
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I think the two skulls are Rose and Bernard.
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Well not in physical form
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Hey dude. Good to see you defending Lost aginst the trolls in here, but truth be told Dapper is right. There are a shit ton of unanswered questions from Season 2. I'll take your challenge of 20 just out of boredom.
1. What does Des mean when he says "Lift it up." to Jack in his flashback in MOS, MOF?
2. What's up with wet, backwards talking Walt?
3. What is up with Des' snowman joke test question? Who is he waiting for?
4. Why does Chang say there are 6 stations on the island when there are several more?
5. Where are Hanso and the Degroots?
6. What is up with the glass eye the Tailies found in the abandoned Arrow station?
7. Why did Radzinsky splice the Swann orientation film to edit out not using the computer for other purposes?
8. How did Walt communicate with Michael on the computer? Was it Walt?
9. Why did Libby say the washer and dryer in the Swan looked newer than everything else in there?
10. Why did Dharma put Egyptian heiroglyphics on the countdown timer?
11. Why did Radzinksky paint an invisible map of the island and the hatches?
12. What were Malkin's intentions to putting Claire on 815?
13. What is up with the Pearl and why were they sending their updates to an abandoned field in the middle of nowhere?
14. What's up with the vaccine Charlie gives Claire and the baby?
15. Why was Des dishonorably discharged from the Royal Scots?
16. What is up with Libby in the nuthouse?
17. Is the Hurley Bird actually real? We see it for a second time in the S2 finale.
18. Why did Radzinsky supposedly kill himself?
19. How did Penny know to look for electromagnetic anomalies in order to find Des? Did she know about the island?
20. Dammit I could only think of 19. I failed. -
Maybe they are still in 1977 with Vincent?
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How could they leave out the shows best character from the poster ? :-((
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. . . they introduce at least a dozen new characters.
Kidding! -
. . . on the walls of nearly every college dorm room next semester.
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about the characters. After the awful beginning to season 4 I thought the show was irreparably damaged, but they knocked it out of the park in season 5. Hell, the episode when Sawyer finally sees Kate again might be one of my favorites of the entire series. And I hated Sawyer.
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and then the rest of the season will explain WTF just happened.
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2 things:
1) Fuck you
2) You are fucking stupid. -
Heh heh heh . . .
I'm only half-kidding this time. -
I could see them doing that.
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I'm just sayin', is all.
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Jan 06, 2010 12:11:33 PM CST
There can be both an alternate time line and the actual timeline
by jayemel
The characters flash between the parallel universes. It's so much better than a reset, and makes more sense.
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They jerked him around too much, basically castrated the character. First they wouldn't write him as a decisive real leader, then they had him emotionally cuckholded by Sawyer, then Sawyer even gets Juliet too while Kate is still pining for Sawyer. They should have built Jack up more, given him a few more good lines, had a few things go his way more and they could still have had him struggling and having setbacks overall. Like Jack or not, he's the designated hero of the show and writing his character like a doormat messes up the series.
For me the highpoint was season 3, especially the season 3 finale. I liked many parts of season 5 but the finale was pretty lame, from the predictable sacrificing of Juliet (this show seems to have a thing against blondes, or is it just any woman who threatens to take the focus off of Kate?), to the laughable fight between Jack and Sawyer while Sayid is bleeding to death, to introducing the actor who plays Jacob too late in the series.
But despite it all I'm still looking forward to season 6. -
Also, most of those questions HoboCode asked have common sense answers, though a couple are legitimate.
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and about last season's finale. The first disappointing finale of the series. They made Sawyer the Man at the expense of Jack's character. I will say this though: he is a hero for our times with all his crying, wishy washy-ness and bad tattoos.
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I can see it coming a mile away.
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I'm pretty sure a few of these have been answered, so he's my shot at your questions - I'm sure others will confirm or deny at great length...1. What does Des mean when he says "Lift it up." to Jack in his flashback in MOS, MOF?
I have no idea.
2. What's up with wet, backwards talking Walt?I think it was discussed that he was an island manifestation or the man in black.
3. What is up with Des' snowman joke test question? Who is he waiting for?
That's the joke/question that Kelvin asked Des when they first met on the island. It's the code for the replacement and/or partner to run the station - Des was waiting/hoping for a replacement for Kelvin.
4. Why does Chang say there are 6 stations on the island when there are several more?
Not all of the stations were built yet.
5. Where are Hanso and the Degroots?
Cuse just said it doesn't matter - LOL, just kidding. I'd like to know this as well.
6. What is up with the glass eye the Tailies found in the abandoned Arrow station?
That's 'Patchy's eye' (I forgot his real name) he's famous for running the Flame Station, shooting Sayid, surviving the Sonic Fence and being shot (very bad @ss), and swimming down to the Looking Glass Station, again averting death, and setting off the grenade outside of the Looking Glass windows to kill Charlie.
7. Why did Radzinsky splice the Swann orientation film to edit out not using the computer for other purposes?
Because he's a crazy @sshole.
8. How did Walt communicate with Michael on the computer? Was it Walt?
Walt is 'special' and could do whatever he wanted to - except not get older and grow about 2 feet.
9. Why did Libby say the washer and dryer in the Swan looked newer than everything else in there?
Because they were newer than everything else in the station - Dharma was making food drops why not Washers and Dryers?
10. Why did Dharma put Egyptian heiroglyphics on the countdown timer?
Why not? LOL.
11. Why did Radzinksky paint an invisible map of the island and the hatches?
Because he's a crazy @sshole. Serioulsly, I think he was trying to map out which stations were still viable on the island - since he was the last true member of the Dharma Initiative on the island.
12. What were Malkin's intentions to putting Claire on 815?
To sell her baby to the couple in LA - he's a greedy fake b@stard.
13. What is up with the Pearl and why were they sending their updates to an abandoned field in the middle of nowhere?
Either Dharma were super @ssholes or after the purge the people left in the station didn't know any better and just kept sending the updates.
14. What's up with the vaccine Charlie gives Claire and the baby?
I think it was Ethan Rom that gave the vaccine - anyway... It was to help prevent the problems the Others had with having stillborn babies. Later Juliet said it was really because Claire got pregnant off the island.
15. Why was Des dishonorably discharged from the Royal Scots?
I think they said - but I forgot. Don't worry Cuse said it's not important. LOL
16. What is up with Libby in the nuthouse?
She's a crazy bitch.
17. Is the Hurley Bird actually real? We see it for a second time in the S2 finale.
I don't know.
18. Why did Radzinsky supposedly kill himself?
He didn't. Kelvin killed him. As I stated before Radzinsky was a crazy @sshole.
19. How did Penny know to look for electromagnetic anomalies in order to find Des? Did she know about the island?
This is unclear, but seemed to have something to do with her thinking her father had something to do with Des' disappearance and mimicking his research. Also Des did talk to her in the past and said he'd call her...
20. Dammit I could only think of 19. I failed.Yes you did. LOL.How about these...21. Why does Dharma still send food, supplies, and possibly washers and dryers to an island where their people were slaughtered?22. How does Dharma send food, supplies, etc to an island that 'moves'?I may post others later. :) -
Do you think Lost is this decade's X-Files? if not, which series from the 90's?
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This is the one thing me and Herc can agree on. Head 6, Head Baltar and Starbuck are angels. The two most evil characters on the show at worst, morally bankrupt at best turn out to be angels! Baltar gets a free pass for genocide of his own people, not to mention the terrorist explosion of a nuke on a civilian ship and the selling out of his people to the cylons and signing death orders.
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stop the bitching and just enjoy it for what it is. All I'd change would be having Helo actually die saving Hera and seeing Seelix get her mutineering ass all shot up by the cylons.
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2. So why was he wet and talking backwards?
3. I realize Kelvin asked it first but why? Who did he think was going to replace him. Did he not realize Dharma was destroyed or was there an off-island contingent he was waiting for?
4. Before the Swan was being built in season 5 the show while IN THE 70's references at least 7 stations. The Arrow (Chang's orientation film), The Hydra (polar bear feces), The Orchid (under construction with The Swan), The Swan (under construction), The Looking Glass (the sub depot), The Staff (Juliet's medical supplies), and The Flame (Radzinsky's station before The Swan).
6. Couldn't have been Mikhail's. His scar was fused over his eye socket.
7. Crazy asshole isn't adequate.
12. I don't know. Greed? Seems wishy-washy? If greed was his motivator what changed, because he initally tried to get her to NOT give it up for adoption. He either knew the plane would crash on the island or he was hired to do it by someone else, but who?
15. All they said was that he "couldn't follow orders."
18. How do you know Kelvin killed Radzinsky?
19. We clearly need a scene between Penny and her father, which the show has not provided thus far.
21. and 22. Very good questions -
And I envy you and everyone else who thought it was great, but to me it was clown shoes. Hokey as hell. My favorite part was Adama's drunk puking.
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Why does Dharma still send food, supplies, and possibly washers and dryers to an island where their people were slaughtered? Because at that time when the 815ers crashed on the island, the world outside of the island was in a different time where Dharma was still sending supplies.
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How does Dharma send food, supplies, etc to an island that 'moves'? Just like using a submarine allows you to go under the time-shifting effect of the island there is a hole in the sky that you can go through to avoid it. I just realized that this negates my answer to No.21
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Coem on it was good. Tell me you didn't cheer when Boomer and Tory are executed and Cavil eats his own gun.
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Anyone remember that game, which was a spinoff from Chrono Trigger (a game in which you hopped around to different time periods on a quest to prevent an awful future in which an alien causes the apocalypse in 1999)? In Chrono Cross, instead of time hopping you go back and forth between two timelines... that game had an AMAZINGLY convoluted storyline, but holy shit did it have great music.
Can't wait for the final Lost season to start! -
Still doesn't explain why the food dropped. Was it an older shipment that passed through a wormhole or is there an off-island contingent of Dharma sending them and why?
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Although Jack was finally tolerable in the last season, I've always hated his character with a passion. To the point where I would have seriously considered taking him out if I were on that island (doctor or not). At least they aren't promising more Kate. She brings the show to a fucking crawl.
More Locke is good, although I'm not sure what that means. His fate was the thing that bummed me out most about the finale. Well that and hitting a reset button at the end of the show that's left us with nothing tangible to speculate over (echos of S1, looking down the hatch, finale). But if that button brings back living Locke, then I guess I'm kind of ok with it. Maybe.
I just hope they don't screw up the finale season too much. They really pulled the show back from the brink after the train wreck that was S3. But there's still a lot of stuff to answer (although I couldn't care less about minutia like who Adam and Eve are). This is the last great network show. After this, there's only cable. I can't wait for the premiere. -
Opened the attached article twice. ....I can't read it. I don't want to know. ...no, I don't want to be disappointed.
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I love Lost, and it in no way will affect my enjoyment, but what a blatant rip-off!
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Sigh. Read my post above. Many shows before BSG did a Last Supper homage. BSG ripped it off of The sopranos by your rationale.
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Jan 06, 2010 2:11:18 PM CST
Um, need I point out that they are all ripping off . . .
by royston lodge
Leonardo Da Vinci?
I'm just sayin'... -
1. I'm not saying that there weren't parts of the BSG finale that I didn't enjoy. That first hour building up to the battle where Adama rams Galactica into the cylon base star was awesome. But I hated how they resolved the Opera House dream. And who didn't see that Boomer execution coming. Also, I think that Calvin offing himself was out of character particularly considering that there was no long resurrection. 2. I think it was an older shipment dropped off from off the island from a past time period.
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Milk is cheaper when it's past its due date, but then it doesn't taste very good. Solution? Buy it from a time-traveller!
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But. In re-watching 'The Incident'..did ya notice:
That Juliet at the bottom of the Swan Shaft comes to coughing blood...grabs the rock and sputters..says, "Diego, C'mon, you son of a bitch...C'mon, C'mon.." Bang. Bang...
As mentioned above..Diego is the Spanish male name derived from the Hebrew Jacob..
Was she possibly calling for Jacob to come and take her...and as she was marked can she be taken?
What if Jacob isn't an Angel but a a devil..the devil. What if his touch didn't instill good or virtue in the 7 LOSTies touched but the opposite. Sin. Those sins. The deadly ones. The flashbacks that we have seen.. In most you will find a character acting out one of the deadly sins. What if in accepting each of those gifts (lunchbox, pen, candy, blessing, pity, guitar) and being touched by Jacob is what caused the contributory incident in the lives of each of them..that put them all on the Wrong path?
Maybe Kate should have faced a consequence for her Greed (the storekeeper callin the cops)
Maybe James in running out of ink and w/ his Uncle's lecture would have forgotten his Wrath.. would not have finished his letter without the 'gift' of Jacob's pen.
Funny couldn't help but think of the line from Serenity.."Do you know what your Sin is Doctor...it's Pride"
What if this is all ass-backwards.. and the answer does lie in ep 3.14 'Expose' and Mr. LaShade really is "the Cobra"
When Esau/Bocaj says, "They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same." in re-watching, it is possible to see this not as HIS assertion but a recitation, a repeating back of JACOB's assertion. Would a benevolent entity need a Room 23 to brainwash initiates? Have to tell them that God loves him? Be unforgiving? Require a gesture that includes patricide?
What if Un-Locke and Ben are the Good guys and just killed the devil, and must now confront 'the others' outside who having followed Jacob out of mistaken understanding and deception.
And now. Though grim from the Grey King shadows fall..Come the Seven Sleepers and a Dog..to wage war against Un-Locke not knowing it is they who are in the wrong..mind bendy.
can't wait. -
2. So why was he wet and talking backwards?I don't know. Do we know he was in fact talking backwards? If so, has anyone reversed the audio to know what Walt actually said?
3. I realize Kelvin asked it first but why? Who did he think was going to replace him. Did he not realize Dharma was destroyed or was there an off-island contingent he was waiting for?Good question. It just seemed to allude to people in the station being replaced after an unspecified amount of time passed. Also, Kelvin mentioned being recruited by Radzinski... right?
4. Before the Swan was being built in season 5 the show while IN THE 70's references at least 7 stations. The Arrow (Chang's orientation film), The Hydra (polar bear feces), The Orchid (under construction with The Swan), The Swan (under construction), The Looking Glass (the sub depot), The Staff (Juliet's medical supplies), and The Flame (Radzinsky's station before The Swan).You're right - my bad. Maybe Chang was trying to keep some of the stations a secret (Or only on island stations - not counting the Looking Glass since it's in the ocean.
6. Couldn't have been Mikhail's. His scar was fused over his eye socket.Another good point. Speculation... Mikhail (thank you for his name) may have initially lost his eye and received a prosthetic (glass) eye... and later lost it in a knife fight and gained his scar.
7. Crazy asshole isn't adequate. I agree, just trying to be funny and failed obviously. No real answer, but maybe because he wanted to use the computers to send messages and wanted others to use them as well?
12. I don't know. Greed? Seems wishy-washy? If greed was his motivator what changed, because he initially tried to get her to NOT give it up for adoption. He either knew the plane would crash on the island or he was hired to do it by someone else, but who?Agreed, again a mild attempt at humor (failed). I got the feeling that while he was a fake he may have gotten a true reading on Claire and that's why he pushed her into going on the plane.
15. All they said was that he "couldn't follow orders."Yeah, that sounds right, not much of an explanation.
18. How do you know Kelvin killed Radzinsky?While I don't 'know' know it... they seemed to allude to it pretty well. Des said that Kelvin said Radzinsky killed himself. In another episode We saw Kelvin telling Des about it and it definitely seemed as though Kelvin was stretching the truth.
19. We clearly need a scene between Penny and her father, which the show has not provided thus far.Agreed.
21. and 22. Very good questionsThank you!Nice try Stabby, but I don't think that quite cuts it - Unfortunately, I don't think these questions will be answered.Additional questions...23. Where did Richard come from?24. If Richard gave Locke the compass while Locke was time shifting, and Locke gave it to Richard while time shifting... Where the hell did the compass come from? -
Jacob as the Devil would be cool, but I don't think Juliet says "Deigo" at any point in that scene.
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WTF?!? She doesn't say "Diego!" Lord.
I'm a big LOST fan, & I can't wait for season 6, but I'm not confident that all loose ends will be tied up. The LOST writers most definitely abandoned lots of plot threads along the way, some of which may have just been bad writing or red herrings. That's not to say that the gaps won't be filled in interviews, DVD commentaries, & the like. Still, it's disappointing that we're at the end, & we won't likely see why Walt has powers, what the "sickness" is, or what the Valenzetti Equation was all about. Plus all that other shit. -
He's clearly demonstrating paranoid tendencies when we see him in the 70s. And it's obvious that when the Others purge the Dharma village that he takes refuge in the Swan station cut off from Dharma and the world. Also, the hazard suit makes sense since the Others killed them with poisonous gas and their is a Dharma station equipped to release poisoned gas throughout the island. I don't think it matters if he committed suicide or Kelvin killed him; either case Radzinsky is batshit crazy and whether he pushed kelvin to the brink or he did it himself he got what was coming to him. Also, Radzinski was obsessed with building models so the map makes sense and his scribbling trying to figure out what things on the island meant like the smoke which he called Cerberus.
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While I think it's very possible that MIB is indeed the good one, I thin kthe Room 23 example you provided was a little weak. Ben clearly has had his own agendas (fertility issues) so Room 23 could have been soley his idea. Ben did get a spinal tumor afterall for presumedly falling out of favor with Jacob.
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SPOILERS BELOW: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Desmond centric episode in 6x11, and we revisit room 23. Sawyer joins up with the MIB/Smokey, who wants to go home, and Claire vows to kill Kate. And now my theory:
Here's my attempt to answer WHERE MIB wants to go, and how he could be seen off-island, if Jacob is keeping him prisoner there.
Smokey/MIB wants to go home, which is the ALT universe.
He couldn't leave the cabin until someone like Locke or Hurley accidentally broke the ash circle.
It wasn't Jacob in the cabin in MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN, but MIB.
So how does he manage to appear as Christian, Yemi, Ben's mom, etc. BEFORE the circle was broken? Easy. He used the island's time traveling abilities to jump around in time, and off island in-time, to set up his long con of manipulation.
When Jacob is dead, MIB will be able to use the island, and perhaps the temple, to get back to the ALT and bring in the end of the world, where the numbers DO NOT change, and destroy both timelines. The numbers of the Valenzetti equation (4,8,15,16,23,42) are actually most of the oceanic 6, numbering 6 in all. Jack is one of them, Kate is one, one of the Kwons are the number 42. They were numbered as slave prisoners aboard the Black Rock ship. It's a timeloop and/or some kind of reincarnation thing.
Jacob has been keeping the MIB/Smokey prisoner to halt the end of the world.
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They explained the sickness last season. That was Rousseau's interpretation of what happened when her team went under the temple and came back acting crazy.
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Man, when he came back in season 5 like, "No, we can definitely change the past. We're the variables!", he deserved to get blasted. Hopefully we find out what happened off-island to make him come back & make such a ridiculous statement.
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Yeah, but "came back acting crazy" doesn't count. So far, just those 3 dudes went into the temple & came out homicidal. Why?
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It was only those 3 dudes because only Rousseau's team was ever said to be "sick." So, yeah, that begs the new question of what happened to them under the temple which I'm sure will be addressed next season. It most likely has something to do with what happened to young Ben when richard took him in there. They are clearly changed somehow. Possessed? copied? Who knows?
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Yeah if we don't get a Faraday flashback to Ann Arbor I may go nuts.
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I'm going to try to answer alot of those questions, because most of them are inexcusable to a fan such as yourself. I've know you for years now, and from what I know about you, this just isn't acceptable. And to show that theres unity in the truth, I'm not reading the other responses to your questions until AFTER I post mine. Here we go.
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....for the new season... and i cant wait for the followup to Lost cuz there is too MANY damn characters/ story arcs/plots/etc to explain away in one season...I have faith, but I know I will be disappointed cuz this is feelin like (Spider-Man 3 for me...even tho I quite enjoyed SM3)...
GO TEAM BEN!
AND GO TEAM VINCENT!and maybe, just maybe I could finally say TEAM JACK (but I doubt it cuz he sucks...) -
Yeah see I'm not so sure that we'll see why just those 3 dudes went homocidal. I think all the explanation we're gonna see regarding the Expedition was in S5, sorry to say. I hope they prove me wrong! Good call on the Young Ben thing though, so there's at least 1 other mention of the temple "changing" somebody.
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is another answer promised to us in s6. I think it has something to do with time travel, or Dharma food drops from the alternate universe. The island is the nexus between both universes.
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If Richard gave Locke the compass while Locke was time shifting, and Locke gave it to Richard while time shifting... Where the hell did the compass come from
I think that Darlton explained that one away by saying its like the chicken and the egg. Whatever that means. -
Are you calling me names for a reason? I thought we were playing nice.
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Is Lost the best show on television every with some of the worst lead characters ever? (Jack and Kate). They waited too long to put a heavy focus on Sawyer, who could have carried as the male Lostie lead from the beginning. Hell, he has had half the centrics that Kate and Jack have. Holloway is an amazing actor compared to Fox's dopiness.
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I'm not saying those were good questions per se. Like someone stated, many can be answered via common sense. Like Libby being in the nuthouse because her husband died. But they are still unknowns. That's mainly what I was driving at.
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1. What does Des mean when he says "Lift it up." to Jack in his flashback in MOS, MOF? Eh.. he's telling Jack to lift his ankle up to ease the swelling. Jack interprets it as maybe the x-ray for his soon-to-be-wife, but the thematic motif is Jack is having faith, lifting it up to God, so to speak, that a miracle can happen. The ankle thing is a direct answer from the Producers.
2. What's up with wet, backwards talking Walt? Not sure, but Beau Klugh asked if Walt has ever been places he shouldn't have been. Such as when he appeared to Locke and told him to stop the freighter folk from coming to the island. I think Darlton said that was Smokie. Backwards talking Walt could be a time-traveled Walt who just came from a rainy area. They were doing experiments on him in Room 23. Or he's talking backwards because he's from the ALT universe. Kate received a call from someone talking backwards. Locke talked backwards in a promo for s5. We're going to get the Walt question answered in s6, not necessarily with the actor's appearance.
3. What is up with Des' snowman joke test question? Who is he waiting for? Eh.. seriously? Its what Radzinsky said to Kelvin, Kelvin told to Desmond, and Desmond is supposed to say to his replacement. Its Dharma-code to identify yourself as the new Swan station button pusher. This question was ridiculous dude.
4. Why does Chang say there are 6 stations on the island when there are several more? Are you kidding me? Because the other stations are a secret, or he doesn't know about them. Comeon man.
5. Where are Hanso and the Degroots? At Dharma HQ in Ann Arbor, Michigan, unless something else happened to them. We don't know yet, but the producers have promised more on this.
6. What is up with the glass eye the Tailies found in the abandoned Arrow station? Jin takes out Mikhal's eye in the ALT universe. since Mikhal is an Other, he is able to cross timelines. Just because someone at one time wore a glass eye, doesn't mean he can't have skin infused to cover the socket later. This really isn't some huge deal, but you'll get more on this in s6.
7. Why did Radzinsky splice the Swann orientation film to edit out not using the computer for other purposes? Why did Chang say the Swan was a psychological experiment, when we know its not? Why does he have 3 different names? It seems like someone came back and WANTED the incident to happen (course correction). We'll get more on this, because Darlton keeps bringing these things up in the commentaries and podcasts, giving us a heads up that they haven't forgotten about these
8. How did Walt communicate with Michael on the computer? Was it Walt? See my answer to #2.
9. Why did Libby say the washer and dryer in the Swan looked newer than everything else in there? Are you fucking kidding me? Not even gonna bother dude. Learn to accept that SOME things won't be answered. Things like this. The producers have admitted to dropping the ball on SOME things, but not ALL things, and not ALL the important ones. They also DELIBERATELY planned on having certain specific mysteries on the show that will NEVER be answered, on purpose, in keepnig with the general mystique of the island and the show. They've said this in print.
10. Why did Dharma put Egyptian heiroglyphics on the countdown timer? Because theres an overall egyptian theme on the show, and Dharma is aware of it on the island. The temple, that has the smoke monster underneath it, has a Dharma symbol on it on Ben's map. There's a strong indication that the truce between the Others and Dharma was so that Dharma could solve some of the mythology on the island and prevent certain accidents/disasters, in tandem with the Others. In other words, the Others wanted them there, as long as these things were done.
Horace Goodspeed seemed like he knew about the Black Rock when Sawyer asked him about it in 1974. Richard Alpert is from the Black Rock and is said to be kind of godlike/egyptian by the LOST producers.
No, don't bitch at me because I didn't DIRECTLY answer your question, but I provided some good groundwork to show you it wasn't random. I think when we finally see whats REALLY going on with Hanso/Paik/Dharma and the Others, and the egyptian connection, it'll make sense why the Swan had those.
11. Why did Radzinksky paint an invisible map of the island and the hatches? More to come.
12. What were Malkin's intentions to putting Claire on 815? to have her crash and die because her child would grow up to be a horrible monster if raised by an "Other".
13. What is up with the Pearl and why were they sending their updates to an abandoned field in the middle of nowhere? The updates were going to the Others to be retrieved in the field. More to come on this, or, just have to accept its one of the mysteries they don't care to explain, or forgot about.
14. What's up with the vaccine Charlie gives Claire and the baby? And Desmond and Kelvin inject themselves with... radiation leakage from the Swan/Jughead, or a Dumbo feather that did nothing, or a protection against the "sickness" that Rousseau witnessed her crew get (possession by Smokey?)
15. Why was Des dishonorably discharged from the Royal Scots? Some say when he went AWOL to visit Penny in the Constant, but thats not correct because he has a higher rank when he's discharged. This may never be answered, or perhaps it will be answered in the Desmond centric ep coming up in s6. I think it ties into his character's series-long struggle between cowardice/courage and it would be a shame not to answer it. I thought the reason it was never answered was because it would drastically change what we thought about Desmond, and they were holding off on that twist. 16. What is up with Libby in the nuthouse? Her husband Dave was killed in Hurley's deck accident and she lost it and went nuts and was obsessed with Hurley in the mental ward, as he was the one who 'killed' her husband. This is probably the same Dave that appeared to Hurley on the island, which was probably a manifestation of the smoke monster. We were going to see most of this visually but the producers pissed off Cynthia Watros too much to get her back to do the small closure. They may do a little reference to it without using the actress. BTW, Libby's last name is Smith (not Widmore like alot of people thought).
17. Is the Hurley Bird actually real? We see it for a second time in the S2 finale. No, it was only shown once. The producers are aware of the Hurley Bird and have even joked about it recently. You should probably chalk this one up as never getting answered.
18. Why did Radzinsky supposedly kill himself? Already answered. He went insane from pushing the numbers for almost 14 years. Or.. he was murdered by someone like Sayid, which is my theory, which is more interesting. This is one of those that isn't on the MUST-ANSWER! list.
19. How did Penny know to look for electromagnetic anomalies in order to find Des? Did she know about the island? Yes, she knew about the island, she said so, and she had some idea what her father was doing.
This just goes to show you:
A) Answers are coming
B) You can figure out alot of this yourself
C) You're not getting EVERY answer People want to know why Hurley won't lose weight, but what about the GIANT FUCKING SMOKE MONSTER ROAMING THE ISLAND!?
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it was a TRAP set up by the others to lure him out and capture him. Which they did.
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Good to see you bud!
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From the Pearl, can't we assume that it was the Others who lured Michael? They would have the perfect way to observe when he was alone next to the computer. Or, what Novamann5000 just said.
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To me it has just seemed like a joke, something I have never EVER expected an answer on. What the hell... And no offense, but MrCleanAZ your responses make me want to throw my keyboard at the wall :P
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talking to Michael on the computer.
As for the food drops they figured out how to get them to the island via the information obtained at the Lampost, but since they were only doing fly bys they couldn't have known that the Others had taken the Dharma stations over. -
It looks like The Swan.
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FFS, yes we know what he was saying. A lot of this shit can probably be answered by a quick trip over to lostpedia (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/).
Not long after he was taken off the raft, a water-drenched Walt appeared before Shannon, who had just followed a fleeing Vincent into the jungle. Shannon heard him whisper incomprehensibly, which has been ascribed to reversed or backwards speech. The translation of the speech is reportedly "Push the button. Don't push the button. Bad." Whether it was actually Walt or a vision is unclear. ("Man of Science, Man of Faith")
Three nights later, Walt again appeared to Shannon, this time in the new tent that Sayid had just made for her. Walt was again dripping wet and spoke in reversed speech, "They're coming and they're close".
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aaaghh
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Your "answers" to my "ridiculous" questions are mostly your own ASSUMPTIONS that have not been confirmed by the show. But I want to make a couple poitns on your answers. Umm...Radzinsky never asked Kelvin the snowman question so I'm not sure where you got that. But no shit it was a replacement code, BUT HOW AND WHO IS IT FOR? As far as we know Dharma is destroyed. I guess the question boils down to why Kelvin thought Dharma still existed to give him a replacement. This has not been addressed but, yes, probably will be next season.
And I don't even know where you are getting your information about Libby's husband. They have never said how he died.
And the Hurley Bird IS shown in both Exodus and LT, DA. Look it up. -
No offense taken, I guess... What did I say that made you want to throw your keyboard?My explanations weren't that far off from BillboeFett's - except for the ones I didn't know.Thanks for the backwards speech translation though!
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Hell no broseph, one love to all fellow LOST dorks. That was just my Dark Half monkeying around.
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She was never visited by Jeremy Bentham/John Locke. He did not ask her to go back to the island. Cha-ching. Nor was Ben BTW.
*Finally noticed that in the Juliet / Rachel flashback in 'The Incident' ...The book on the coffee table between the girls and thier parents.. Mysteries of the Ancient Americas...that has been mentioned but if you check out the book on Amazon, under the Customers who bought this also bought ..guess what you find:
Everything That Rises Must Converge by Flannery O'Connor ..the book Jacob was reading on the bench... the power of LOST on products..funny
*Notice in the deleted scenes that Un-Christian required an Axe to get into the Dharma rec center to show Sun and Frank the 1977 pic. The doors were boarded up..and looked to have been so for many many years. Certainly more than 3.
*After watchin the deleted scene of stones & boulders or whatever the extended explanation Daniel gives for changing the past in ep 5.14 'The Variable'.. TPTB owe me a t-shirt or a cookie or somethin cause of what I wrote in the ep 5.10 talkback:
http://tinyurl.com/yaj9gs7
bastards. -
I was just reacting to some of the more... speculative qualities of some of your answers. Nothing wrong with doing speculation on this show though, it's half the fun. Here's a little of my own: As for how did Penny know to look for electrical anomolies, as someone else said she did seem to know about her father but here's another theory. Remember in Flashes Before Your Eyes, when Desmond relays his crazy story about the island to his friend in the bar, right before he's smacked on the head and his consciousness returns to the island? What if that friend later told it to Penny after Desmond disappeared?
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You really need to be put in a timeout though for question #1. Obama and Limbaugh both agree on that one.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Desmond says to Jack in the SEASON 2 PREMIERE: "See you in another life brother", and they have one of them repeat it at least once a season since. Evidence of the ALT universe from s2 ep1! -
1. What does Des mean when he says "Lift it up." to Jack in his flashback in MOS, MOF?
I think it was just one of those things that could have a double meaning upon retrospect, but at that moment he was just referring to Jack's ankle. It's a repeated phrase in lost, both on the blast door and on Eko's stick. Reinforces the fated-nature of all that's happening to these people.
2. What's up with wet, backwards talking Walt?
Smoke monster. It's been able to manifest into human form, we've seen this. We're not sure what ends the monster is working toward but the manifestations seem to be leading people to their deaths. Examples: Eko, Shannon - Dead. Plus, Jack and Hurley were both tempted over the edge of a cliff by visions that weren't there in season 1.
3. What is up with Des' snowman joke test question? Who is he waiting for?
Desmond was waiting for his replacement who was very, VERY overdue. That was the code to tell if a new person was a hostile or his true replacement.
4. Why does Chang say there are 6 stations on the island when there are several more?
They probably weren't built yet, but it also could have been misdirection on the part of Chang. Remember that the orientation films were created to present a very specific version of reality to Dharma employees (/test subjects). Information was on a need to know basis.
5. Where are Hanso and the Degroots?
Dead, most likely… Though Hanso's backstory has been fleshed out a bit with the diary of his ancestor and the ties to the island/black rock.
6. What is up with the glass eye the Tailies found in the abandoned Arrow station?
Mikhail's (patchy's eye) fake eye. It was foreshadowing that we would meet him. Also a bit of a red herring as he originally identifies himself as a member of Dharma, something that finding a glass eye in a Dharma station might corroborate.
7. Why did Radzinsky splice the Swann orientation film to edit out not using the computer for other purposes?
Radzinsky's behavior and eventual suicide suggests he was going crazy in the Swan. It's thought that he came to the swan PRE-Purge, but committed suicide POST-purge… Most likely he realized that the hostiles had taken over the initiative and he was trapped on the island indefinitely… That, or he discovered the true nature of the island (whatever that may be) and it made him go crazy.
8. How did Walt communicate with Michael on the computer? Was it Walt?
It wasn't Walt. It was the Others trying to lure Michael into a trap so they could use him. It worked.
9. Why did Libby say the washer and dryer in the Swan looked newer than everything else in there?
It was a hint to the idea that the station (and the island) was not as cut off from the outside world as they thought if there are more modern equipment in some stations. Foreshadowing that the others have a way off the island and routinely go back and forth.
10. Why did Dharma put Egyptian heiroglyphics on the countdown timer?
The island's ancient parts are covered in heiroglyphics, as we've seen most recently in the temples of S5. The symbols were probably chosen by Dharma because of that.
11. Why did Radzinksky paint an invisible map of the island and the hatches?
Radzinsky was trying to map out the island secretly. He was trying to explore it completely, but could only check out locations that could be visited and returned from within 108 minutes (as he writes that certain places are not compatible with 108, meaning he can't get there and back in time without having the timer run out).
12. What were Malkin's intentions to putting Claire on 815?
We don't know exactly. It appeared that he had a real vision, for the first time ever (since he is a fraud) and it scared the shit out of him, which is why he kept harassing claire. But then, someone approached him offering him a ton of money for Claire and her unborn child to be brought to LA… (This is speculation, but it's supported by a deleted scene in which Malkin tell's Eko about the couple). Charlie had originally guessed that the couple didn't exist and that Malkin wanted to strand Claire on the island, but this suggests otherwise… The couple is real. The question is: Who was this couple, and why were they so insistant that Claire be on Flight 815? Malkin insists it has to be THIS FLIGHT and has bought her ticket. Perhaps they wanted her on the island?
13. What is up with the Pearl and why were they sending their updates to an abandoned field in the middle of nowhere?
The Pearl, as I understand it, was an experiment in and of itself. The creators of the experiment didn't care what the other hatches were doing, those were already under surveilance. They creators really wanted to watch those assigned to the pearl. The stations they were watching, specifically the Swan, was actually a legitimate station with a real purpose (controlling electromagnetic anomalies) which suggests that the PEARL was the psychological experiment about observation and following orders, among other things.
14. What's up with the vaccine Charlie gives Claire and the baby?
Probably a placebo but we're not sure yet. It might have been a vaccine the others created to fight "the sickness" that takes over some people after time on the island. We've seen everyone from Rousseau's crew to Iliana's group become affected.
15. Why was Des dishonorably discharged from the Royal Scots?
For "failing to follow orders", though it's not clear exactly which orders he failed to follow. One could speculate that he was discharged after his crazy time traveling behavior in the constant, as he went a little nuts then and also left the base to find Daniel, perhaps without leave.
16. What is up with Libby in the nuthouse?
We won't get that answer, unfortunately, but it was something the creators had planned on telling us before Cynthia Waltros' schedule got too packed. Somewhere between the time Libby met Desmond and coming to the Island, she went nuts, but aside from that we will probably never know.
17. Is the Hurley Bird actually real? We see it for a second time in the S2 finale.
Most likely it was just Hurley imagining things, though it could have been a manifestation of the smoke monster. Like the spiders that paralyzed Nikki and Paulo and possibly that damn white horse.
18. Why did Radzinsky supposedly kill himself?
Most likely went crazy in the station. He wasn't exactly stable when he was in the Initiative to begin with.
19. How did Penny know to look for electromagnetic anomalies in order to find Des? Did she know about the island?
Penny's father had been looking for the island ever since being kicked off of it decades earlier. She discovered everything about the island from him, most likely by snooping, as I doubt he would ever outrightly tell her.
20. Dammit I could only think of 19. I failed.
That'll do, pig.
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Just watched it again on the Blu-Ray. And the scene goes conscious, cough blood (gurgley bright red and out her ears ..thats an artery and a punctured lung..even if no boom she would be dead) Look over see bomb, roll over towards bomb, pick up Black rock..and then through gritted teeth:
something.. 'Diego' I thought at first, on again listening I think she might be actually saying 'Iacobus'(Latin). Then "Cmon, C'mon, go Cmon, you son of a bitch, Cmon, C'mon.." and BOOOM! Still what do her fallen star mark on her back mean? -
it means shes not allowed to become "Otherized" in the temple like Ben was. She will never "always be one of them". It probably also means she cannot cross timelines.
And your Peter Pan theory, never panned out. And your "the Widmores came to the island from Australia" thing never panned out. And if you're the real Matthew Fox, fuck 4-season weather, naked hot-tubbing, and Scott Wolfe, in general :) -
said almost exactly what I said, with a few differences and variations. Which just goes to show the unity of truth in our answers, Hobo. You're either not pondering the show enough, or too much.
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But more often than not, the answers are there if you dig a little.
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no love for the Bilbo?
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that the end of Lost is more to be more like the end of The Sopranos than the end of The Wire. In other words...unsastifying and pretentious, instead of satisfying, moving and perfect. But I guess I'll just have to wait and see.
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it is even Jacob's idea..but I have to think he is aware of it.
And Billbo...it only ends once everything until then is progress.
But thanks for skiippin over all the stuff I've been right about. Too much to list. would clog things up. -
The LOST producers have promised to NOT end it like the Sopranos. And they said it will be satisfying. Characters will have DEFINITE closure. Matthew Fox said it will be very satisfying as well. And BTW, if you're waiting till the series end to decide if its a great show or not, you simply have not let yourself enjoy the journey my friend.
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only ending once, and everything that happens until then is progress.. you talkin about hot-tubbin with Scott Wolfe? Is the progress gay rights?
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my poor brain can't take anymore of these questions arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!!!!!
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The show is definitely not going to give us answers to all the "unanswered questions", but that's because some of them need answers and some of them don't. "Why was Desmond kicked out of the military" is not really a question that needs an answer, because we can imagine an answer that would be just as good as the real one--e.g. he was young and stubborn and immature. But I do like the idea that the time traveling and visiting of Oxford are what caused him to be kicked out.
But then some questions do need answers for the show to be satisfying. If we are never told why Jack's father came back to life (or was impersonated) and what the purpose behind all the things he's done since coming back to life is, nobody will be happy. If we never find out why Libby was in an institution--well, does it really matter? We can imagine that her husband suddenly died and she couldn't deal with it--or any number of other things. It would be nice to know, but the show won't be significantly incomplete without that information.
So here are questions I have that I don't think have been answered, and which I think are significant enough that the show needs to answer them in Season 6(some have already been mentioned on this thread, but oh well).
1. The Others/Hostiles
a. When and how did they first arrive on the island?
b. How did they come to be associated with Jacob?
c. Are they working toward some ultimate goal/purpose? If so, what?
d. How long has Richard been with them, and why doesn't he age (if the answer is "Jacob keeps him from aging", then why does Jacob do this?)
e. What connection does Widmore currently have to the Others, what is the nature of his feud with Ben (i.e. what are the "rules"), and how are Widmore's goals different from Ben's?
f. What are the Others' rituals and where do they come from (e.g. knowing Latin, performing the ceremony where Juliet is branded)?
2. Dharma
a. Does the Dharma Initiative still exist in the present? If not, who is making the supply drops to the island?
b. If the Dharma Initiative still exists, does it have any connection to any of the groups still active in the present (Ilana's people, Widmore's people, Ben's people)?
3. The island
a. Who are Jacob and his enemy, what powers do they have, what are their goals, what is the nature of their disagreement with each other, and why has Jacob been involving himself in the lives of the O815 survivors?
b. Why did people on the island become unable to have children?
c. Was there ever a sickness (as Rousseau believed and the different people in the Swan hatch believed, etc.) or are they misinterpreting other things as a sickness?
d. What is the smoke monster? Is he connected to Jacob/Jacob's enemy, or not?
e. Why have some dead people seemed to come back to life (Christian, Locke, people visiting Hurley including the dead O815 survivors and his imaginary friend from the institution, Eko's brother)? Are all of these visions caused by the same thing (the smoke monster/Jacob's enemy/Jacob/the island) or are there different explanations for different ones (i.e. is Locke from S5 Jacob's enemy but not Christian not?)
f. Why does the island cure some people but not others? Does the island itself have a will, or is this Jacob?
g. Who are Adam and Eve?
h. Where did all the really ancient stuff on the island (e.g. Jacob's giant statue, the temple) come from?
i. What happened to the survivors of the Black Rock?
4. The different factions.
a. We have seen many different people who seem to be part of larger organizations (Richard and the Others on the island, Ben and his followers off the island, Widmore and his followers off the island, Ilana and her people, the Dharma initiative, Ms. Hawking). Are any of these groups the same? (i.e. is Ilana working for Widmore? Are Ben's followers off the island part of the Others who follow Jacob and are advised by Richard?)
b. Why are they fighting against each other and what do they want?
c. How much influence do Jacob and/or his nemesis have on each of them?
5. The O815 survivors
a. Is there any greater significance to these people and their plane crashing on the island? Had they been chosen long before? Is there any significance to the fact that their pasts have so many points of overlap?
b. What is so special about Walt, and why did the Others want him?
c. What is so special about Aaron, and why did the Others want him? (this may have been answered if the only thing they were interested in was studying Claire's pregnancy)
d. Was there ever anything special about Locke, or was he just a pawn in Jacob's enemy's game?
e. What happened to Claire?
Has any of this already been answered? Are there any other major questions that need answering? -
Closure, for the producers. Satisfying, for the producers. And I don't use Soprano's as an example as I like and dislike that ending in equal measures. My biggest comparison has ALWAYS been X-Files, which simply did not deliver. That's what I'm expecting with Lost. A solid season that ties up a lot of loose ends and answers most of the questions, but in the end just doesn't get it all done. I hope I'm wrong and if I am it will make the season more enjoyable for me to watch. But I'm really not holding my breath.
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fuckin' ugly, looks like a comedy
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But my girfriend bought me the complete series of The Wire for Xmas. I finished watching it today. I used to think Lost was the best show of the last 10 years. How wrong I was. I just wish that I had got into it sooner.
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I said "and Matthew Fox as well".
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Are we all spoiler free here? paburrows? Bueller?
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..with his character. It's still all white wash about how they actually resolve the 10,000 questions, mysteries and open plot threads until we actually see it. Like I said, I'm just not convinced they're going to get even close. And I'm basing this on my opinion of what they've done with the last five seasons. However, I also want to make it clear that I'm not expecting every mystery, plot hole and question to be resolved. I just want it to be done effectively in a non-bs kind of way.
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None of these fucks go and read the entire thread. OR follow up their posts. Fuckin trolls. And Hobo, that's only 19! Asshole said there were HUNDREDS of unanswered questions.....
WHERES SHANNONS INHALER DAMMNIT! -
Hey Jaka, when they have a satisfying ending to the show, explain all the main mysteries, and a few more, will you come back here and admit you were wrong, thus exerting the same amount of energy eating crow as you're using now to be so arms-folded and huffing? My prediction: NO.
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according to the s5 bluray commentary
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apologies to Leonardo Da Vinci's family for all those retarded comments.
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In many ways I understand why Des is taking a backseat as for the most part his story has been played out. But he is one of my favourites and a little but disappointed we won't be seeing a lot of him. From what I have heard he will appear on occasion but not enough for me.
Frank and Miles have done well to still be around and be part of the main cast.
Apart from Des, Eko is still my most missed character, which is kind of funny in that all I love the first season, a few characters introduced in Season 2 (Des, Eko and Ben) probably are three of the best in the history of the show. -
There are many that were listed above. "Not important" or "they won't get around to answering that" are really piss poor excuses.
The hieroglyphics on the counter in the hatch explanations are dumb. "Because they saw Egyptian stuff elsewhere on the island"? That's dumb.
I think the show was good until the end of season 4 and season 5 was not good. My opinion, which many would disagree with, but I think the show went off the rails with the frozen donkey wheel.
It would be interesting if they published the original Lost bible (rough framework of plot arc from beginning to end) to see where it veered off course.
Other season 2 questions: What was special about Walt?
How come the narrator in the Pearl video has two hands when he lost one in the incident? (The Swan was already completed by this time)
Why did the others pretend to be bums (shabby clothing, no shoes)? I've heard explanations for this, but they're not believable, especially when you consider that they did this when they were just walking around sometimes, and sometimes not.
How did the polar bears get on the island? Consider the fact that they were at the Hydra, which was a different island.
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Yeah, have to rewatch expose or season 3 short lived N&P eps.
That was a joke from CC but I'll take it. George needs to do his HW then.
Looking forward to season 6. Just dont fake moves talkbackers. -
I figured it was Un-Walt - like Un-Christian and Un-Locke and.. who talks to Michael just before the boat goes kablooey? is it Un-Christian again?
also, guys, remember they acknowledge in the linked interview that they were basically spinning their wheels for some of S2 and S3 - until the network agreed to give them a solid deadline to wrap it all up - so there were a lot of dead ends and red herrings...
speaking of which, did Nicki and Paulo have something to do with the glass eye? Maybe that's just my imagination... -
A long time ago I came up with the theory that LOST was basically the Doctor Who story THE PRYMIDS OF MARS. In it Sutekh(the devil)was being held prisoner by Horus.Sutekh also used a dead man(Marcus Scarman)like John Locke to do his bidding.
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Think there needs to be some kind of balance, some answers, some mystery remaining.
If they said the island is a gateway between alternative universes and as such the energies at the gateway create the specialness of the island, its quirks, healing powers etc, I would be fine with that. I don't need to know if it was made, who made it, how long it has existed etc.
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If they did tell us everything, what would we have to debate and discuss after its all over?
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Jesus, the Others were baiting Michael. They were watching him. Christ.
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Only major staples like Adam & Eve, possibly the smoke monster. We'll see. I'm good with just plain ol' storytelling.
If they decide to go into further detail about other mysteries, then cool. But that's one of the reasons I like this show. It makes/allows us to use our imaginations. -
Seriously.
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Lost sucks.
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No need to be a dick about it really as I thought we were just expressing our opinions on something we actually know nothing about (that's both of us buddy). I certainly wasn't attacking you, nor was I huffing. Little sensitive there, don'tcha think? And obviously you haven't paid very much attention to my actions here at AICN. Because I will definitely come back and give high praise if I find the final season as fulfilling as you've already convinced yourself it's going to be. Hope you're not too disappointed.
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And I said as much. But there are certain plot point, mysteries and questions that they've introduced over the course of the series I'm anxious to see addressed.
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NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! We know the state. It's still fucked.
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Very good post, well-constructed. I thoroughly agree with you that all, if not the vast majority of those questions desperately need answering. The way I see it, every successful piece of work has to work within the logic that it itself has created. And, based on the precedents that the show has set thus far, these questions are essential!
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Jan 07, 2010 10:33:22 AM CST
It's Been the Final Season of LOST for 10 Years Now!
by darfurontherocks2
.... My bad.... It just feels like it!
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Have some sort of Q+A ,and say "well, we NEVER had an actual way to explain that..it was just a macguffin" and i will be happy. And, please-explain to us EVERY THING, even shit like HOW NIKKI AND TAKE-A-SHIT-GUY would've factored in to the overall scheme(as they ONCE were said was the case, till everyone fucking hated on them).Whispers, Smokey,Desmond in jail(reason why?),The apparations(penny to michael), why the gay fat guy explained michael CANT die(time travel?),Walt's powers(mind control?control birds??? able to use mind to send dad a message on a computer????why and what are the specific abilities???)Why did locke walk(because Jacob touched him?)These showrunner created the mystery-THEY BETTER give the answers! To not give answers and claim "we wont make everyone happy" is total bullshit(unless they plan to milk the show for 20 more years...).At least PLAN on having an interview with any site, AND answer the damn questions.
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I suspect that the writers have written themselves into a corner and will rely on some mystical solution to end this whole thing.
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I spent a good part of the latter half of season 5 making the exact same argument you made about why the bomb detonation would absolutely HAVE to fail to stop the crash of Oceanic 815. But then my wife actually raised a really good point that I hadn't thought of...
What if the bomb does create an alternate timeline where the crash never happened, but then in that alternate timeline there is some terrible ramification that results from the crash never happening? What if some or all of the people on the flight are aware that this is not the way things were supposed to be? And what if they somehow course-correct the timeline so that the crash does happen after all and things go back to the way they were all along on the show? So basically I'm saying that there could be an alternate timeline produced, but it would only be temporary and would be corrected back, so the end result is still the timeline we've seen all along with those things you mentioned present in the past (the oceanic folk in the Dharma initiative, Eloise remembering shooting Daniel, etc.)
This may seem like a needless diversion, but it may be really useful in answering one of the most important questions on the show. Why were the Losties brought to the island? Why was it important. By showing the ramifications of them never coming to the island it may be a cool way to answer that question. -
Great theory.
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..is why you never fuck with time travel in any sort of serious context in your plot. It never turns out well. Star Trek (not the movie, but for the last 40 years) should have taught writers all about this.
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... oh, let's say ... Moe.
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I've rewatched the S5 finale twice now, and I'm struck by the content in the 1st scene with Jacob and MIB/smokie. At some point while talking about the new people on the Black Rock coming in Jacob says something about it being okay as long as each time they progress.
So what if our LOSTies keep coming back to the island throughout time until they make the correct choices as a whole to "get it right"? Maybe a reincarnation thing - maybe not. The difference each time goes to what Jacob told Ben in the foot. You don't have to do this. You can make a different choice.
Now take that idea and apply it to what L&C said in their recent interview about using a different story telling device than they have previously. Suppose that device is choices. They show what happens when you make a choice, then they show what happens if you make a separate choice.
It kinda goes along with what William Bell said to Olivia in Fringe about different choices being made in the other universe than were made here. I would doubt that LOST would go that way, but they might (as many of us have specualted) do a "do-it-over-and-over-until-you-get-it-right" thing in this manner.
Not sure if this is right or not, just speculation. It'd be pretty interesting to see what the prize is once they get it right, though. -
If the SOTU screws the premier, then it falls on my bday the following week. I'm good with that. Goin' to Hooters with Brooklyn on tap!
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Where you had to read an interview with Rowling to find out what happened to many of the characters. I do think it will share one thing in common with the final HP novel: stupidly unnecessary deaths.
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And I guess Juliet is really dead. Damn. Not happy about the Jack/John emphasis (though I like John; hate the boring self-righteous Jack), and if the moronic Kate falls in a hole for most of the season I'll be happy. Why do I get unpleasant BSG-bad-finale vibes from all this?
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Nice call with the Pyramids of Mars influence. Other similarities include the Egyptian hieroglyphs and the deflection barrier around the house. I just hope that Jacob stands up to reveal a hand holding his cushion to stop it from sticking to his arse...
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That would have been the biggest Mind F**k of the series, but they wimped out. It also would have got Desmond's ass back on the island and set up some great drama.
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Are they going to bring him back for an episode or two this year?
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According to MSNBC, if the State of the Union is broadcast during the Lost premiere, ABC execs have said that they will not necessarily move or reschedule it. You may just see what Obama isn't talking in front of.
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In some form. Carlton and Cuse have already said that several times. I do want to know what was so special about Walt, Why Christian has been dead man walking for six seasons, and why Libby was in the mental ward with Hurley as a patient. Also why do the dead passengers only visit Hurley. Other characters see dead people, but I don't think anyone but Big H see passengers that died on the island.
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In some form. Carlton and Cuse have already said that several times. I do want to know what was so special about Walt, Why Christian has been dead man walking for six seasons, and why Libby was in the mental ward with Hurley as a patient. Also why do the dead passengers only visit Hurley. Other characters see dead people, but I don't think anyone but Big H see passengers that died on the island.
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I agree, Ben shouldve killed Penny OR I posted in the season 5 finale thread (which is still going on strong btw) THAT:
Yes, either Ben shouldve killed Penny or Whidmore shouldve kidnapped Charlie in order to bring Des or Penny back to the Island. -
As the answers you are getting seem per-functionary allow me to overspew yet again.
Desmond's (DD) papers were stamped 'DESERTION'. What is not known are the circumstances behind the judgment..You can extrapolate them I think..working back from the given evidence.
*Desertion can have differing key elements:
1) an intent to remain away from your unit, organization, or place of duty PERMANENTLY which is distinct from Absence Without Leave (AWOL)
2) or an intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service..
I think Desmond is guilty of the 2nd element...
*Based on the length and location of Desmond's confinement, rule out the 1st element. Usually a boot buggin, unless especially grievous or chronic, would get a Summary dealing and an adios. Maybe an escalation to a District Court-Martial and minimal confinement..max out at 2 yrs..
OR-3 Lance Corporal Desmond David Hume was Dishonorably Discharged and that means five officers and a General Court-Martial.
*When Desmond is discharged, Charles Widmore goads Desmond with "because you are a coward" and "you just run away"
*Desmond told Kelvin he was kicked out of "that nice ole lady's army" for not following orders ...and..Penny's letter speaks of a "burden he must carry alone"
*Desmond's 6-months training in Explosive Ordinance Disposal and mentioning of just enough time to know enough to "blow yourself up" (true. its called the 200th hour) when confronted with the Kahana bomb..seems more than fortuitous.
--SO--
You have to feature that at some point OR-3 Hume was confronted with something that went boom..was given an order to deal with it ..and chose to do it not. bad things ensued. you got to think.
Just to be even more typety verbosey ..In the show Desmond is confined at Southway Garrison which is a stand in for MoD's one remaining prison the Military Corrective Training Centre at Colchester Garrison in Essex ..bout 90k Ne of London the barracks is also home to 16 Air Assault Brigade which is quite skilled in blowing the shite out of T-55's..but anyway its called the 'Glasshouse'
...I remem thinking it was amusing..and possibly revealing.. the exchange between Tom Friendly and Jack in Season 3.. When Tom said," See this house your livin in Jack.. (taps glass wall) ..why I don't I get you some stones.."
Anyway, I am goin to the Pub and gettin Drunk and watchin the Whiny Orange beat the ugly off the Tide..Nope. can't be done.
"Penance left undone during life converts to punishment in purgatory" -
Sorry man I've been hopping on when I have a second at work to just comment when i can and I didn't see your post till just now. How's it going?!
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I don't know...let me think about that one. So by this theory, there would be three different versions of the timeline:
1. Original timeline, in which the O815 survivors never went to the 70s (this is necessary because we know that their trip back to the seventies ultimately leads to them undoing the incident, according to your theory), Desmond doesn't push the button, O815 crashes, and eventually the survivors go back in time, which creates:
2. Modified timeline, in which the survivors visit the 70s, set off Jughead, prevent the Incident from happening, eliminating the need for a button in the Swan station, leading to O815 crashing, leading to some awful crisis, leading to the former survivors realizing that the plane should have crashed, which leads them to go back in time and create:
3. Final modified timeline, in which Jack and the others from timeline 1 go back to the 70s, stop the Incident, but then someone from timeline 2 comes back and recreates the conditions that led to the crash (including Desmond in the hatch not pushing the button), causing O815 to crash again.
I don't know about this. The only way that this makes sense to me is if Seasons 1-5 have been showing us timeline 3 the whole time (because the timeline we've seen also already had Jack, Hurley, Kate, etc. in the 70s, but still had the crash, so it couldn't be timeline 1 or 2.). I guess it's technically possible, but it would be pretty damn complicated, and would also totally violate the "whatever happened happened" rule.
And I think that this rule is not just a piece of time travel logic--it has larger thematic significance for the show's philosophy of life. The whole run of this show has been about these characters coming to terms with what's happened in their past. It's only by accepting that "what happened happened" that they can get closure and move forward (this is essentially what Sawyer says to Jack in "The Incident" when he explains why he didn't go back and keep his father from killing himself and Sawyer's mother).
Further evidence that "what happened happened" is the rule: in "The Variable", immediately after Daniel explains that humans have free will and can change their destinies, he goes off to find his mother to ask her to take him to the bomb--and in doing this he ends up getting killed, which, as he dies, he realized is what had always happened. In the act of trying to change his future, he made it the same as it had always been.
The same thing happens with Sayid--who tried to kill Ben, but ended up causing him to be given to the Others to permanently make him "one of them". It seems that in every case where someone tries to change the future, they end up causing the future that they were trying to avoid--and in keeping with this trend, it makes the most sense from a story point of view (as well as time travel logic) that setting off the bomb is what causes the incident in the first place (as Miles suggests), and that they haven't changed anything. -
As you typed.."The whole run of this show has been about these characters coming to terms with what's happened in their past."
It is not about acceptance..it is about REDEMPTION.
Again, as you typed.."It seems that in every case where someone tries to change the future, they end up causing the future that they were trying to avoid"
Close like a hand grenade..as any character tries to cancel up their cardinal mortal venial sin with a corresponding opposing virtue..they mostly fail. mostly. until. until of late.
Kate's Greed becomes Charity...
James's Wrath becomes Patience..
Jack's Pride becomes Humility...
Jin's Envy becomes Kindness...
Sun's Lust becomes Chastity...
John's Sloth becomes Diligence...
Hurley's Gluttony becomes Temperance...
Or does it? Or was it?
Was their nature Virtue before Sin, before the touch of Jacob..or vice versa..
Black is White, Yin is Yang, Hot is Cold, DeVito is Tall, John is Kate...
John is Kate? hmmpf...Am I saying souls got misgiven (intentional) in the shuffle of re-incarnation?
I guess I did..
how bout that.
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Canvas a 100 Sports Reporters...100 Coaches...
If nothing else know..the biggest Schmegma cheese in the Universe..Colin Cowherd.. has said Nick is a miserable human being..
Well..Hooray. EVIL has won a fakey fake 'National Championship' ..barely. Barely beaten teams twice with an injured Quarterback ..coincidence?
Think it a coincidence..nope..he instructs fellas to injure..
Judge those orders as you will..scum... ah, but in both 'iterations' of his...ah, he 'managed' to injure the opposing QB..
Judge for yourself, but know..the man did not smile either time when Gatorade bathed..The Man don't smile!
Doooooosh!
how bout that...
Saban is the Smoke Monster...and the monster is EVIL!
bastard. -
In the flashback where she gave Desmond her boat, she mentions her husband having died. I assumed that had something to do with it - his death caused a nervous breakdown or some such. Although, this being Lost, it probably involved her being committed for telling people about being visited by her dead husband and seeing him everywhere.
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Are acceptance and redemption mutually exclusive? I was thinking more of cases where the characters had traumas in their past (mostly to do with their fathers, I guess)--Jack's troubled relationship with his father that was never resolved before his father's death, Locke's anger at his father for stealing his kidney, Sawyer's anger at the original Sawyer (aka Locke's father) for indirectly causing the death of his parents, etc.
In all of these cases, the only way for the characters to move forward to the rest of their lives is to accept that what happened happened, and they can't change it. Locke ruined his relationship with Helen because he was stuck in the past, trying to undo or redo or figure out what happened with his father--but what he should have done was accept it and move on. Sawyer let grief and vengeance consume him as he spent his life trying to kill "Dear Mr Sawyer", but even when he was able to do this, it didn't make him feel better and it didn't bring his parents back. In all these cases, whatever happened happened.
This is a different question from what you're talking about. In all the cases I list, the events in the characters' past were not their fault, so there's really nothing to get redemption for. But you're discussing the characters' flaws, and I agree that a big part of the show is them getting redemption for their past failings (Sun and Jin are a great example, and so are Sawyer, Kate, Charlie).
I like your theory about the sins in principle (btw what is a "cardinal mortal venial sin"? A mortal sin is an (unforgiveable) sin that is not venial, and a venial sin is a (forgiveable) sin that is not mortal). But I think you take it a little too far--do you really think that those characters have been intentionally depicted as having the seven deadly sins? And that the show's arc has been their attempts to replace them with the seven virtues?
It works better for some characters than others. For example, I wouldn't say that Hurley's big sin--or main problem in life--is "gluttony". He has a lack of self-confidence which extends to his fear of his own insanity and belief that he is "cursed" and that he will ruin the lives of those around him, all of which has caused him at times to withdraw from other people and create a bubble around himself keeping everyone else out.
And Locke's sin (or problem) was not so much "sloth", in my opinion, as it was the fact that he becomes obsessed with the idea that he has some great significance in the world, and when the world proves to him that he doesn't, he becomes obsessed with trying to prove that he really is important--like in Hurley's case, this has caused Locke to withdraw from the "real world". If anything I'd label this "pride" rather than "sloth". John believes he's more important than he is--he thought he meant something to his father when he didn't, and he considered himself a survivalist and military expert when he was just a lowly worker at a box company, and when he got to the island he thought he was born to be its leader when now, as it seems, he might have just been a pawn of Jacob's enemy.
Anyway, I think your seven deadly sin chart is an oversimplification--the characterization in the show is so complex, you can't just say "Sawyer equals wrath" and have that be the whole answer--but there's definitely some truth in it. And I really like the idea that Jacob could be flipping them from one side of the coin to the other, and that we don't know what that is. We tend to assume that Jacob works for the good, but does he? By giving Kate the lunchbox, he taught her that it was okay to steal. By giving Sawyer the pen, he allowed him to continue writing the letter that symbolized his mission of vengeance. Maybe his touch has been what set these people on the wrong path. Intriguing. -
Delaying the premiere would be a crime. So would "blending" it together with the SOTU. Can't the government just once pull the dick out of my ass?
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Starting from the last season... Shit is cool as hell...
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In the photo. I am looking forward to seeing her again.
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Where he switched from the man of science to the man of faith. Kate's noble act to help out Claire and Aaron seems like a big change as well. It doesn't seem like Sayid changed, but became worse. It seemed like Hurley changed in s3 when he changed his luck to good with Roger Workman's Dharma Van.
Wait a minute.
6 seasons, oceanic 6, 6 numbers (4,8,15,16,23,42). Hmm... -
Wonder whatever the flip happens with Claire, that Kate will have to explain what happen to him. I mean, he's not supposed to be raised by anyone else, right? Wonder how that's gonna play out.
Why do they drop the ball with the kid storylines? -
I'ts possible that Whidmore and Ben had a peek of the future somehow. Or, they got info from Eloise or Farraday.
Farraday was working for Whidmore and it's possible he may have rambled some idiot savant future like storys that caught Whidmores attention. BTW, how many factions do we have now on/off the Island?
1. Losties
2. The Others
3. Sun & Lapidis
4. Ilanyas group (Band of the Hand/Foot)
5. Charles Whidmore
6. Elouise Hawkings/Farraday. (Wonder when the name change came thru and why she left the island)
7. Des & Penny
It would be interesting to see Whidmore get back to the Island huh? -
I just wanna get one thing straight. I don't work on January the 8th. Cause that's Elvis' birthday! Ahh haw hun-haw-hun-hun!
-
...Kate approaches Jack on the beach and does wants to tell him what she did. He says to her:
"It doesn't matter what we did before this, before the plane crashed. Three days ago, we all died. We all deserve a second chance."
Tabula Rasa
...And then I give you a spooky, knowing look, throw you an apple and...stare out at the Ocean...Pacifica...
I got troubles, lord, but not today
'Cause they're gonna wash away
They're gonna wash away
And I have sins, lord, but not today
'Cause they're gonna wash away
They're gonna wash away
And I have friends, lord, but not today
'Cause they done washed away
They done washed away
Lord, I've been crying alone
I've been crying alone
No, no more crying alone
no, no more crying here.
We get lonely, lord, but not today
Cause we're gonna wash away
We're gonna wash away
I got troubles, lord, but not today
Cause they're gonna wash away
This old river's gonna take them away.
..sniff.
我薮は時分はづれの蛍哉! -
any answers to any questions he has about LOST in exchange for him moving his state of the union speech away from the LOST premiere night. Pretty cool.
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Were chiseled out of the 8 evil thoughts..by a Monk.
Evagrius Ponticus
And..
Did you know..that Desmond's Regiment..the Royal Scots..
Are the oldest and most senior of Her Majesty's infantry regiments (1633) and some spent a good deal of time in the Asias in the 19th Century..Crimea, Ceylon, Hong Kong, and then some and all that..
That they are Πόντιος Πιλᾶτος's bodyguard. how bout that..
"I'm going to give you your greatest wish..I'm going to show you a World without Sin" -
..to expand as the urban dictionary sayeth:
"Someone who has surpassed the levels of jerk and asshole, however not yet reached fucker or motherfucker."
...not singling him out. All Politicians are in this category..it is only a matter of degrees.
You kids will learn this..one day..maybe. Harry hasn't...but..he is doom enough to believe that an all encompassing CENTRAL authority will make all better..or him more equal.... all in spite of Harrison Bergeron's proven disagreement diminished..well
Know..Obama is no bigger or more of a douche than any other President that has come before him..
He's just more incompetent..
..even more than that lusty jew-hatin Peanut Farmer..
yep. I typed it. -
You said: "The only way that this makes sense to me is if Seasons 1-5 have been showing us timeline 3 the whole time."
Yep, that's exactly what I was saying. Nice talking to someone who "gets" the ideas behind time travel, as well as someone who was able to explain what i was trying to say better than I did. Also just so you know, I agree with you that "Whatever happened, happened" is probably the rule on the show. I felt that way about time travel before I ever saw the show Lost. I was just mentioning the scenario my wife brought up because like you conceded, it is technically possible. But yeah, I think it might get a little too complicated for most folks who even had trouble getting their minds around alot of the time travel stuff in S5. -
It's cool to see Locke in the position of Jesus in the photo. I say this because, as much as I loved the S5 finale, I was saddened at the sight of a dead Locke on the beach. I felt like he was being set up as a Messianic figure for some time, and then for all that to be just a red-herring was disappointing for me.
But this pic makes me think that perhaps it wasn't just a red-herring after all. I mean, there have just been so many hints that Locke would play a Christ-like role. From the "virgin birth" ramblings of his mother, to his suffering before and after he turned the donkey-wheel, knowing that he may be headed to his own death. And check out this very famous prophecy about the Messiah from the book of Isaiah: "He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not." If that's not John Locke, i don't know what is.
So yeah, my hope for Locke in season 6 is that he'll play some kind of self-sacrificial Messianic role and get his redemption that way. -
It was all a scam. The psychic told Claire that so she would not give her kid up for adoption. Then, when he had her convinced, he told her there was a couple in LA who could raise him safely. She initially came to the conclusion that he tricked her into getting on Flight 815 knowing it would crash so she'd be forced to raise the kid herself on the island. However, in a Mr. Eko flashback, the psychic admits to being a fraud (Eko was investigating his daughter's "return from the dead" as a potential Miracle). It is believed that the psychic conned Claire. He convinced her to not give her kid up for adoption so he could broker the sale of him to the LA couple. He gave her money for "expenses", etc, the other half she'd get in LA.
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The psychic was full of shit I guess...And Fax and fett need to let their dicks get soft. Cool down people.
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Some people have speculated that the order the people are sitting in may indicate their roles in relationship to John who appears to be in the Jesus role but that may be a trick. Their is an extra person at this supper so what does that mean? The other version offers some possible clues. In that version Miles sits where Claire does in this one, Sun is where Ben is, Claire is where Hurley is,
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rest of the post
Sun, Hurley and Frank are the last three. In other words the order of many of the people is not set in stone. In the other version they all look at the camera rather than Locke.
http://www.coronacomingattractions.com/news/losts-last-supper-has-its-secrets
So is the pic just a publicity shot or does it have any meaning? Probably not but if I was a betting man it's that Locke is a deciever pretending to be a good guy. It gels with the actions at the end of last season. If thats the case and Locke has supplanted the real "messiah" then that role appears to be Jack. Locke is literally sitting in his chair. This may indicate that in the eternal struggle between light and dark it's still Jack vs Locke as it has often been since the very beginning.
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Have just issued a statement saying the State of Union address will not interfere with the showing of Lost.
No, seriously google the madness... -
Everyone will be back on the plane, the plane lands in LA, everybody goes on with their pathetic non-Island lives knowing nothing about the island or the crash, EXCEPT for those who went back to '77 and were in the radius of the H-bomb (Sayid, Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, etc). They'll be living their loser lives while remembering their island lives (which will make interesting stories between Jin and his wife who won't remember the island). Those who remember will realize their island lives were better and will try to bend time again. Jack will go to Wheelchair Locke and try to convince him of a magical island (reversing Jack and Lockes roles) and that Locke is somehow essential to get there (since he left it then came back - sort of). Back on the island with The Others, Juliet remembers everything and tries to help from her end. And Jacob and Mystery Guy? Jacob is Fate (remember the weaving) and Mystery Guy is Anti-Fate (I call him Jonah after that Disney character Jonah J Fate) - or maybe vice versa. And the war will be over whether or not it's possible to change one's own fate. And by the end, Jack will be the last one standing as he hits some sort of metaphorical reset button (or maybe literal) and ZAP he opens his eyes and we're back to the crash. Lost is one big (possibly mobius) loop.
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thats not going to happen AT ALL...
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And it's just getting me more and more aggravated. They had BETTER NOT FUCK LOCKE UP IN THE NEW SEASON. They need to get his resolution right. Killing him off in such a wimpy way is not how to do it. That's a good theory TangCameo by the way, but we'll see how it fits with the "you can't change time" rules they've set. Except the mobius loop stuff, that doesn't sound right.
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Oh..wait folk have...had you takin the time to read the posts of the many Giants afore ya..
since..sense ..ya know about season 2..jeebus.
"in the radius of the H-bomb"...
Good God...read the posts..its not an H-bomb, moron..and yeah. golf clap for repurposing the what not that so..so many other featured before you..well done
Sorry, kid..its the liquor..I gets mean..doomass.
Maybe manyana..you'll tell us all what for bout the sly connection of Lost and 'The Family Man' ..you know the main characters were named Jack and Kate right? -
I am a dog. I am gay for Vincent. Unless he's a bitch, which is entirely possible. Also, I lick my butt. Is it February yet?
https://twitt er.com/Samm ichtheDog -
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more Locke = Christ works pretty well. Depending on what the Man in Black is, he may have been resurrected as a god--and I haven't checked the timeline exactly, but I wonder if he was dead in the coffin for three days... Also, his pose as he's about to hang himself is very similar to the classic Christ on the cross image:
http://www.sl-lost.com/images/507.jpg
And Ben makes a specific reference to the Biblical resurrection (in "316"?) when he tells Jack about the painting of Thomas having to test Jesus' wounds. The O6 saying no to Locke is similar to Peter denying Jesus before the crucifixion. It may just be a lot of symbolism thrown in with no greater meaning, but who knows?
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