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Herc Picks The Best TV Of 2009 and The Decade!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
BEST SCRIPTED HOURLONGS OF 2009
1. Mad Men (AMC)
The least predictable show on television, and one of the hardest things to predict is when it’ll make me yelp with alarm or laughter. This season gave Sterling Cooper the John Deere account and took us back into that faraway world of Hiltons, Rockefellers and Kennedys. Can’t get enough of Sterling, Draper and the newest big addition, the wily Britisher Lane Pryce. New episodes return this summer.
2. Lost (ABC)
A contender for the best season to date, thanks in part to the franchise’s full-on embrace of all the nifty sci-fi at its core. Loved the look on Richard Alpert’s face when Jim LaFleur greeted him by name. Loved Hurley’s conversations with the Changs. New episodes return Feb. 2.
3. Battlestar Galactica (SciFi)
I judge the ending wildly unsatisfying, but the events precipitated by Tom Zarek’s biggest move yet made for some of the year’s most thrilling TV. DVD prequel movie “Battlestar Galactica: The Plan” hits Syfy Jan. 10. Prequel series “Caprica” launches on Syfy Jan. 22.
4. Breaking Bad (AMC)
Loved Fatboy Mohawk and the bicycle kid, loved the hottest landlord on the planet, loved Walter’s parking-lot staredown with the rival meth kings, loved the fate of Danny Trejo’s Tortuga, loved loved loved crooked lawyer Saul Goodman. New episodes return March 7.
5. Dollhouse (Fox)
Did you think I would leave a Joss Whedon show off my top ten list? Because that’s what I was thinking for a while there! This crazily unconventional hunk of sci-fi weirdness got off to a terrible start, but it’s currently on a way-too-late crusade of redemption. (If you haven’t ponied up $2 for “lost” episode “Epitaph One,”
get on that already.) If the series continues to improve at this rate, expect to see the final three installments on my top 10 for 2010 as well. New episodes return Jan. 8.
6. 24 (Fox)
A return to form that brings Jack Bauer back to my top 10 after a multi-year absence! I thought storming the White House through its basement absurd till I found out all the terrorists really needed for access were a tuxedo and a pretty blonde wig. Following a nasty late-season stumble, Kim Bauer’s return simultaneously redeemed the franchise and the character. New episodes return Jan. 17.
7. Friday Night Lights (DirecTV)
Hot new girls from the bad side of town were brought in to replace college-bound Tyra and Lyla. Williams, Riggins and Saracen sought lives beyond the Panthers. Eric and Tami (again) went to work for different schools. Julie went to a gay bar and began to suspect Jesus is a lie. Not only do DirecTV subscribers get to watch the Sugar Bowl on Fox tomorrow, they get to watch primetime’s best soap without commercials. New episodes return Jan. 6.
8. Big Love (HBO)
The family dated a foreigner, Bill masterminded a casino, Roman went on trial, Nicki worked in the D.A.’s office, Sarah and Heather went to the prom, everyone visited the Joseph Smith shrine in New York, Wanda’s brother turned up, Margie launched a TV career, Barb found herself on the outs with the Mormons, Bill found a possible Mormon smoking gun, Bill & Roman teamed up to fight crime, and the Greenes and their Moe-like henchman remained needle-pegging creepy! New episodes return Jan. 10.
9. True Blood (HBO)
This show is no “Buffy” and it’s no “Six Feet Under,” but it’s leagues better than “Vampire Diaries” and it’s growing on me. Godric was a terribly cool character. Let’s hope they put some Frankensteins in the mix this year. New episodes return in June.
10. Fringe (Fox)
We finally got to meet William Bell, who turned out to be Leonard Nimoy. I liked that bowling alley guy, Sam Weiss, and the episode about the rogue Observer was plenty keen. Let’s hope “Grey’s Anatomy,” “The Office” and “CSI” don’t wipe it off the schedule this spring. New episodes return Jan. 11 and 14.
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2008 1. The Wire
2. Mad Men
3. Battlestar Galactica
4. Lost
5. Fringe
6. Pushing Daisies
7. Breaking Bad
8. Friday Night Lights
9. True Blood
10. The Shield
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2007 1. Battlestar Galactica
2. Veronica Mars
3. Lost
4. Pushing Daisies
5. Tell Me You Love Me
6. The Sopranos
7. Mad Men
8. Heroes
9. Rome
10. Brotherhood
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2006 1. Veronica Mars
2. The Wire
3. Heroes
4. 24
5. Studio 60
6. The Sopranos
7. Lost
8. Battlestar Galactica
9. The OC
10. (tie) Brotherhood
10. (tie) Kidnapped
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2005 1. Battlestar Galactica
2. Veronica Mars
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Lost
5. Rome
6. 24
7. Six Feet Under
8. The Inside
9. Everwood
10. The OC
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2004 1. Angel
2. Lost
3. Wonderfalls
4. 24
5. Gilmore Girls
6. The Wire
7. The Sopranos
8. The OC
9. Veronica Mars
10. The L Word
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2003 1. Buffy The Vampire Slayer
2. Alias
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Angel
5. Karen Sisco
6. The OC
7. 24
8. Line of Fire
9. The West Wing
10. (tie) Carnivale
10. (tie) Six Feet Under
10. (tie) The Wire
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2002 1. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
2. 24
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Firefly
5. The West Wing
6. Alias
7. Angel
8. (tie) Oz
8. (tie) Six Feet Under
8. (tie) The Sopranos
8. (tie) The Wire
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2001 1. Buffy The Vampire Slayer
2. Gilmore Girls
3. 24
4. The Sopranos
5. Alias
6. The West Wing
7. Ed
8. Six Feet Under
Best Scripted Hourlongs of 2000 1. Buffy The Vampire Slayer
2. The West Wing
3. Gilmore Girls
4. ER
5. Angel
6. Roswell
7. Ed
8. (tie) Boston Public
8. (tie) Gideon’s Crossing
8. (tie) Oz
8. (tie) The Sopranos
(NOTE ON THE YEAR TWO-THOUSAAAAAAND!! Judd Apatow’s “Freaks and Geeks” and Glenn Gordon Caron’s “Now and Again” were both 1999 launches that aired episodes in 2000. I’ve no real memory of my thinking at the time, but I assume they’re not on my 2000 list because they were long cancelled by the end of 2000. As our minds drift to the decade’s best, I now acknowledge their absences as ridiculous and glaring omissions and beg the forgiveness of the readership.)
30 BEST SCRIPTED
HALF-HOURS OF THE DECADE
1. TV Funhouse (CC)
2. South Park (CC)
3. The Venture Bros. (CN)
4. Curb Your Enthusiasm (HBO)
5. The Office (NBC)
6. Weeds (Showtime)
7. Futurama (Fox)
8. Lucy, The Daughter of the Devil (CN)
9. Andy Barker, P.I. (NBC)
10. Important Things With Demetri Martin (CC)
11. Undeclared (Fox)
12. The Tick (ABC)
13. The Sarah Silverman Program (CC)
14. Home Movies (UPN/CN)
15. King of the Hill (Fox)
16. SNL Thursdays (NBC)
17. Justice League Unlimited (CN)
18. The Life And Times Of Tim (HBO)
19. Andy Richter Controls The Universe (Fox)
20. Wonder Showzen (MTV2)
21. Entourage (HBO)
22. The United States of Tara (Showtime)
23. 30 Rock (NBC)
24. Norm (ABC)
25. Flight of the Conchords (HBO)
26. Arrested Development (Fox)
27. Secret Diary of a Call Girl (Showtime)
28. The Comeback (HBO)
29. The Office (BBC America)
30. Better Off Ted (ABC)
25 BEST REALITY
SHOWS OF THE DECADE
1. Big Brother (CBS)
2. Survivor (CBS)
3. Project Greenlight (Bravo)
4. The Comedians of Comedy (CC)
5. The Real World/Road Rules Challenge (MTV)
6. My Life On the D-List (Bravo)
7. The Amazing Race (CBS)
8. The Bad Girls Club (Oxygen)
9. To Catch A Predator (NBC)
10. Fear Factor (NBC)
11. Kill Reality (E!)
12. The Real World (MTV)
13. Beauty and the Geek (WB/CW)
14. Wipeout (ABC)
15. Last Comic Standing (NBC)
16. WifeSwap (ABC)
17. Can’t Get A Date (VH1)
18. Celebrity Mole (ABC)
19. Celebrity Apprentice (NBC)
20. Blind Date (syndicated)
21. The Adam Carolla Project (TLC)
22. The Osbournes (MTV)
23. Kid Nation (CBS)
24. The Bachelor (ABC)
25. Shipwrecked (BBC America)
10 BEST NON-SCRIPTED
CHAT SHOWS OF THE DECADE
1. Dinner For Five (IFC)
2. The Howard Stern Show (E!/On Demand)
3. Too Late With Adam Carolla (CC)
4. Da Ali G Show (HBO)
5. Politically Incorrect With Bill Maher (CC)
6. The Charlie Rose Show (PBS)
7. Sit Down Comedy With David Steinberg (TVL)
8. Shatner’s Raw Nerve (Biography)
9. Iconoclasts (Sundance)
10. Inside The Actors Studio (Bravo)
10 BEST SEMI-SCRIPTED
CHAT SHOWS OF THE DECADE
1. Late Night With Conan O’Brien (NBC)
2. The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (CC)
3. The Late Show With David Letterman (CBS)
4. The Tonight Show With Conan O’Brien (NBC)
5. The Al Franken Show (Sundance)
6. Jimmy Kimmel Live (ABC)
7. Tough Crowd With Colin Quinn (CC)
8. Late World With Zach (VH1)
9. The Late Late Show With Craig Ferguson (CBS)
10. The Colbert Report (CC)
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
109 Blu Titles Under $10!!
Cheaper Than Used!!
$17.99 Per BSG Set!!
2. Mad Men
3. Battlestar Galactica
4. Lost
5. Fringe
6. Pushing Daisies
7. Breaking Bad
8. Friday Night Lights
9. True Blood
10. The Shield
2. Veronica Mars
3. Lost
4. Pushing Daisies
5. Tell Me You Love Me
6. The Sopranos
7. Mad Men
8. Heroes
9. Rome
10. Brotherhood
2. The Wire
3. Heroes
4. 24
5. Studio 60
6. The Sopranos
7. Lost
8. Battlestar Galactica
9. The OC
10. (tie) Brotherhood
10. (tie) Kidnapped
2. Veronica Mars
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Lost
5. Rome
6. 24
7. Six Feet Under
8. The Inside
9. Everwood
10. The OC
2. Lost
3. Wonderfalls
4. 24
5. Gilmore Girls
6. The Wire
7. The Sopranos
8. The OC
9. Veronica Mars
10. The L Word
2. Alias
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Angel
5. Karen Sisco
6. The OC
7. 24
8. Line of Fire
9. The West Wing
10. (tie) Carnivale
10. (tie) Six Feet Under
10. (tie) The Wire
2. 24
3. Gilmore Girls
4. Firefly
5. The West Wing
6. Alias
7. Angel
8. (tie) Oz
8. (tie) Six Feet Under
8. (tie) The Sopranos
8. (tie) The Wire
2. Gilmore Girls
3. 24
4. The Sopranos
5. Alias
6. The West Wing
7. Ed
8. Six Feet Under
2. The West Wing
3. Gilmore Girls
4. ER
5. Angel
6. Roswell
7. Ed
8. (tie) Boston Public
8. (tie) Gideon’s Crossing
8. (tie) Oz
8. (tie) The Sopranos
2. South Park (CC)
3. The Venture Bros. (CN)
4. Curb Your Enthusiasm (HBO)
5. The Office (NBC)
6. Weeds (Showtime)
7. Futurama (Fox)
8. Lucy, The Daughter of the Devil (CN)
9. Andy Barker, P.I. (NBC)
10. Important Things With Demetri Martin (CC)
11. Undeclared (Fox)
12. The Tick (ABC)
13. The Sarah Silverman Program (CC)
14. Home Movies (UPN/CN)
15. King of the Hill (Fox)
16. SNL Thursdays (NBC)
17. Justice League Unlimited (CN)
18. The Life And Times Of Tim (HBO)
19. Andy Richter Controls The Universe (Fox)
20. Wonder Showzen (MTV2)
21. Entourage (HBO)
22. The United States of Tara (Showtime)
23. 30 Rock (NBC)
24. Norm (ABC)
25. Flight of the Conchords (HBO)
26. Arrested Development (Fox)
27. Secret Diary of a Call Girl (Showtime)
28. The Comeback (HBO)
29. The Office (BBC America)
30. Better Off Ted (ABC)
2. Survivor (CBS)
3. Project Greenlight (Bravo)
4. The Comedians of Comedy (CC)
5. The Real World/Road Rules Challenge (MTV)
6. My Life On the D-List (Bravo)
7. The Amazing Race (CBS)
8. The Bad Girls Club (Oxygen)
9. To Catch A Predator (NBC)
10. Fear Factor (NBC)
11. Kill Reality (E!)
12. The Real World (MTV)
13. Beauty and the Geek (WB/CW)
14. Wipeout (ABC)
15. Last Comic Standing (NBC)
16. WifeSwap (ABC)
17. Can’t Get A Date (VH1)
18. Celebrity Mole (ABC)
19. Celebrity Apprentice (NBC)
20. Blind Date (syndicated)
21. The Adam Carolla Project (TLC)
22. The Osbournes (MTV)
23. Kid Nation (CBS)
24. The Bachelor (ABC)
25. Shipwrecked (BBC America)
2. The Howard Stern Show (E!/On Demand)
3. Too Late With Adam Carolla (CC)
4. Da Ali G Show (HBO)
5. Politically Incorrect With Bill Maher (CC)
6. The Charlie Rose Show (PBS)
7. Sit Down Comedy With David Steinberg (TVL)
8. Shatner’s Raw Nerve (Biography)
9. Iconoclasts (Sundance)
10. Inside The Actors Studio (Bravo)
2. The Daily Show With Jon Stewart (CC)
3. The Late Show With David Letterman (CBS)
4. The Tonight Show With Conan O’Brien (NBC)
5. The Al Franken Show (Sundance)
6. Jimmy Kimmel Live (ABC)
7. Tough Crowd With Colin Quinn (CC)
8. Late World With Zach (VH1)
9. The Late Late Show With Craig Ferguson (CBS)
10. The Colbert Report (CC)
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no Dexter?
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So seriously....have you NEVER watched Dexter? Besides Lost, it is the best show still on TV
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Why, Herc, why? Entourage ranks higher even after the mediocre season it just had? AD should at least be top 10, if not top 5, of decade comedy lists.
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RULES OVER ALL TV SHOWS.
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is dexter?
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I see Angel and Buffy have both won out for best hour long of the year (100% deserved!).....so why not have a Best Hour Long of the Decade?????
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hourlongs overall of the decade...what makes me think that he wouldnt have chosen the wire as number one you also missed one category...best reality game show of 09 or the decade i guess idol wins hands down, with millionaire a close second followed by the 09 version of britain's got talent, which turned a 48 year old, learning disabled lassie into an international superstar oh, and howards channel 9 program killed his e program....the 9 show is classic tv
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I mean, I loved the show and it filled me with Holiday Cheer, but #1? Whatever, I'm taking the pipes.
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did you sleep through the program?
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you are a flat out idiot.
Also, I still miss Everwood. -
Way to try and get Buffy in there.
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just ask the writers who get paid peanuts to work on the shows
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Thanks! I was looking forward to watching Season 2 of True Blood when it came out on DVD - I don't even know who Godric is, but I guess now i know he is DEAD.
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breaking bad should be #1. mad men sux.
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but im just gonna respect the fact that you have way different tastes than I, herc. but i guess that means theres enough good TV out there nowadays to please many different tastes.
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looking over your list, ive never seen a season of dexter. i dont know whats 'common knowledge' about you around here, so have you just never watched it, (you have a lot on your plate as it is.) or do you dislike it, or just not think it's ever been good enough to be the top 10 of any year?
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Jan 01, 2010 11:43:54 PM CST
I hope next years list will have HBO's Game of Thrones!
by stereotypical evil archer
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jesus christ Herc, and you call yourself a TV fan?
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since you mentioned simpsons... i see it gets good ratings, but who is its audience right now? im at the age where i grew up with simpsons, and enjoyed its heyday. (ive heard the current episodes are funny. i dont doubt it, im not saying anything bad about the simpsons) but i dont watch it anymore, and neither do any of the old simpsons nuts i knew.. so im just curious who it's target audience is right now. has it hit with the younger generation? (man, do i sound old asking that.)
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T.V. doesn't have enough good stuff on it to make a list. What a horrifying life to watch all those shows. I would put the Glen Beck show on for fun in the semi scripted show category, or whatever category that show would fall into. He takes all the right wing paranoia to its logical conclusion, its great. He cries one minute and then does something goofy with a cowboy hat the next minute. He embarrasses himself on T.V. every night to the point where you have to admire him. Personally I believe that he believes in what he's saying. And its wonderful to see a crazy, true believer on T.V. every night. I hope something spectacular happens to him.
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AHAHAHAHAHAH WHAT THE FUCK!?!
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Getting the love it deserves. Why is the first season listed so low though?
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I am just way too curious
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The final season season of Angel is better than ANYTHING that has ever aired of TV
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Shield season 5 was just about the best season of a show I've ever seen, although Season 7 was close and recognized in your list.
Deadwood and Dexter are the most egregious omissions on the list though. -
It's a show that keeps getting better. Infinitely better than Dollhouse. Love all other Joss Whedon shows but Dollhouse is just awful. The worst episode of this years Supernatural is better than the best episode of Dollhouse.
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I would put it above some of those you have included, just wondering where it would come in your list?
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I don't think there can be any debate about that, if you disagree, you either haven't seen it or you're stupid. After that, it kinda depends on your preferences, I'd probably put BSG at #2, but there's a lot of good shows I haven't seen yet to compare.
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Never watched The Wire....but knowing the general idea of the show, it just does not interest me. The only thing about it that interests me is how many people seem to love it....one day I'll give it a shot....til then, Angel is my #1
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the toilet paper I wipe my ass with. Horrific show and does not belong anywhere above True Blood. But, it is Herc's opinion so he's entitled to it. Thanks for the knowledge.
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I can't guarantee anything, but this show can interest ANYONE. I'm not much for crime-drama/drug stories, but this was something different.
This is like poetry. At it's core, it's simply great drama and great characterization, with crime as a backdrop. Like I said, I can't guarantee you'd like it, but it's as close to a guarantee as I can get. I haven't met anyone that dislikes it. -
If so, I still need to watch Six Feet Under first....then I can move onto the Wire
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Are you out of your mind? That season was the last I'll be watching of that rubbish.
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This list is seriously flawed without Dexter.
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no business writing about television.
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It's only a dozen episodes in, but I'd declare it as funny as the strongest seasons of The Office. The Halloween episode alone is pure comedy gold.
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But it's probably too 'urban' to rank on Herc's list.
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is better than any of the shit on any of those lists- with the exception of some BSG and 24. They're neck and neck...
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Jan 02, 2010 12:40:22 AM CST
No way the british Office should be so far below the american...
by gods_donkey_is_an_ass_holy
the first 2 or 3 seasons maybe on par with the british version but the last few seasons are average at best. Also Garth Marenghi's Darkplace aired on Adult Swim, maybe not first run but it was so good it should be on any best of list for comedy. Top five shows of the decade period - 1)The Wire 2)Arrested Development 3)The Sopranos 4)Deadwood 4)Curb Your Enthusiasm.
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No love for Mythbusters? It's filled with ingenuity, humor, and explosions. Sounds like quality nerd porn to me!
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Bill Maher twice? He is a piece of crap. Here is a Bill Maher clip. Every show is the same. "There is no God, Conservatives are stupid, Liberals are the smartest thing ever. Stupid joke, stupid joke. Did I mention conservatives are stupid, and there is no God? Thanks for tuning in."
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It just intrigues me how people's opinions of shows can vary so much. My reactions to your decade lists is a combination of "Right on!" and "Are you fucking serious??"
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Fuck, that show is boring even with Eliza. I'll take RTD's most asinine episode - and there's plenty written by him - of Doctor Who over Dullhouse any day. Hell, Tru Calling was head and shoulders above Dullhouse.
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I bought it on Blu-Ray after seeing the first ep, and now this is another example of Hercules pulling his "superior paste" as JettL pointed out...
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The only list I didn't react this way to was the reality show list. For all of those I either have no interest in them, or actively despise them.I would say, too, that it's unfair to call Maher's shows unscripted because they begin with monologues and end with scripted comedy bits.
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BSG's finale was unsatisfying, but it didn't piss me off. It was far from bad. But you know what show had the perfect finale? THE SHIELD.
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How can there be no Dexter in the top-5, let alone NO WHERE on the page?!
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...it's just that everything he's ever done is terribly overrated. Cheers on giving Mad Men the props it deserves though.
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The last 4 or 5 episodes of Dollhouse have been great. It made me sticking with it worth it because the first part of the season was dreadful. Reminds me of Carnivale at the end of it's second season. The first season and a half were slow and boring but they knew it was being cancelled so they had to wrap up everything. It got really good at the end.
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Dollhouse inclusion, is purely about Whedon love, not the quality of the show, think anyone that has a clue about Herc gets that
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Top 5? Higher than '24'? This is the most hilariously inane list I've seen all year, all decade even. I doubt it’s going to be topped in the next 12 months. Fantastic.
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I love movies about serial killers like "Silence of the Lambs" and "Zodiac" and movies about vigilantes like "Death Wish" and "The Dark Knight." For some reason the characters in Dexter are just very broad and boring and obvious to me. And whenever Dexter's pop pops in to remind Dex that he should only kill bad people my eyelids grow very heavy. I'm glad everyone else continues to enjoy it, and I'm sorry I lack whatever gene makes Dexter's characters fascinating to so many.
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No Dexter? Ridiculous. And Arrested Development should be at least in the top 5 of half hour shows. And several years in a row a Joss Whedon show was #1? I realize you have a hard on for Whedon, but honestly.....
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I finally caught up with all the episodes this year thanks for the Adult Swim repeats and I must say I find markedly inferior to the NBC version. Gareth never shunned or unshunned anybody. Gareth never made a journey to Argentina that was protested by the Shoah Foundation. David Brent never marked his date with a sharpie so he could identify her later. And the BBC's version's Creed character isn't nearly as hilariously creepy as the NBC version.
I also thought the Carell-penned "40-Year-Old Virgin" much funnier than the Gervais-penned "Invention of Lying." And I also thought Greg Daniels' "King of the Hill" had a lot more laughs for me than "Extras." If any of that explains anything.
Comedy = subjective. -
Cokksukka!
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I note that other critics are putting "Dollhouse" on their "best of 2009" lists.
As for "Buffy"? Every time I see a "Best Shows Ever" list in the media, it ALWAYS contains these three shows: "The Sopranos," "The Simpsons" and "Buffy The Vampire Slayer." So I hope you're complaining to Time Magazine, TV Guide, Entertainment Weekly, etc etc etc and not just me. -
the last two seasons were too happy and light. a few censored words and you can plop it right on network TV. the writer guy that did the first two seasons needs to come back.
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not sure when it hit me, but this past year of big love finally paid off. the first two seasons i watched with a slight interest in a modern mormon tale about how a guy can handle multiple bitches. i was hoping it would be like a quirky raising arizona, the middle age years. but it was rather meh. i watched and watched, just to see if i could handle a family like that. still it was dull. then suddenly BAM this season kicked ass. i'm not sure even why. it doesn't seem all that different than the previous years. maybe it was confronting the ceremonies, the wives all over the place, or the murder. but the suttle nudge really sucked me back in. it was even gripping in some parts.
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http://bit.ly/6XSCts
If you haven't seen the December episodes you've been missing some swell TV. -
his first episode in season 1 is where you could feel the network finally backed off (but gave up completely). the ship righted itself, and got super cool. the terminator series finally got great right at the same time. too bad by then, nobody was around, and i couldn't convince anybody to come back to it. they never listen to me.
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BBC's the Office, and Arrested Development should definitely be in the top 5. And I would give BSG's spot to Dexter, leaving BSG off the list completely. The final half of season 4 was a fucking coat hanger abortion.
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look through your top ten lists for each year...West Wing was arguably the mostly highly rated hourlongin the history of TV...certainly on non-pay channels.just...odd...
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look through your top ten lists for each year...West Wing was arguably the mostly highly rated hourlongin the history of TV...certainly on non-pay channels.just...odd...
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is I believe a lock for my top five broadcast hourlongs of the decade. The first four seasons of that show were amazing.
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I just watched that again and its somehow the sickest/funniest thing I've ever seen. Nice to see Fringe get some love though.
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fuck Dexter. Broad is exactly the word to use for it. I mean, come on, the entire show is told through voice-over.
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...should be #1. Other than that...a great list!
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Because I'm sorry Herc, but then you having all of the titles that you do being above "Arrested Development", it hurts me to say you just lost a lotta credibility in my book.
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but to me, even if you're including non-broadcast shows...shows that are pretty fun and well done, but not very substantial (like...Fringe?) above The West Wing, to me, even though I understand it's all subjective...that's just...I don't know, silly, yeah?
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I would say it's among the best scripted hourlongs of 2009.
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Seriously Herc, it's easily the best show on TV right now. Just watch it ffs. INFINITELY better then all those Whedon shows put together.
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Or Lost. That's pretty much a fact.
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all I'm saying is, for the top ten list to make sense, it means that the sentence, "I think Fringe is a better show than The West Wing." has to be valid, in your opinion. and I just can't see that at all.
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1.) Lost
2.) Mad Men
3.) The Sopranos
4.) South Park
5.) BSG
6.) Big Love
7.) Dexter
8.) True Blood
9.) The Daily Show
10.) The Colbert Report BTW, I have not seen The Wire (or Breaking Bad). I will see it someday. I know it's great, but I haven't had the time. There was a lot of great television this decade. :) -
Also, you need to retcon all your lists. In no fucking dimension is Karen Sisco or Veronica Mars a better scripted hourlong than The Wire.
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you have shit taste in tv!
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If you click on a story about last year's TV shows with a big red SPOILER box around it, you got to expect some spoilers, my friend.
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even I have to admit The Wire is on a totally different level than anything else ever created for network or cable television...So with that being said: 1) The Wire; 2) Buffy the Vampire SlayerAngel; 3) Firefly; 4) Breaking Bad; 5) Madmen; 7) The Shield; 8) Lost; 10) 24.
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6) The first 2 seasons of Alias & 9) Burn Notice.
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But you include the pile of monkey shite that is Dollhouse???
Typical sycophantic attitude to Lord Whedon, the most talentless hack working in the industry. Anyone watched Buffy lately? It's worse than a Diablo Cody script!!! -
Color me dissapointed!!!
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Uhhh, Dexter's problem is it tries too hard to be dark, and at the end it just comes off as being self conscious.
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What the fuck?
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Fuck Off!!
That, Curb, UK Office and Extras should be at the top of the list. Can't believe my fucking eyes. -
is too good to let slip away. He must become a recurring character, at least.The Shield finale was pitch perfect, but aired in 2008 and thus ineligible for the latest list.Dollhouse? Too little, too late, which makes it inconsistent, at best, and perhaps worthy of honorable mention, not #5, but this is Herc we're talking about.And shit, the decade is over already? Y2K felt just like yesterday.
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Feel free to flame away:
Drama:
1. The Wire
2. Lost
3. BSG
4. Deadwood
5. Six Feet Under
6. Life On Mars (UK)
7. 24
8. Mad Men
9. Dexter
10. Burn Notice
(no Sopranos as I've never watched it)
Comedy:
1. The Office (UK)
2. Extras
3. Arrested Development
4. Curb Your Enthusiasm
5. Futurama
6. Flight of the Conchords
7. Entourage
8. 30 Rock
9. Southpark
10. Family Guy
There's a lot of forgiveness here for shitty seasons.
And in a special category all of it's own:
Awesome shows:
1. Top Gear -
The decade isn't over yet. We still have another year to go. You get that right?
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Best scifi show of the decade beside BSG and Doctor Who.
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Ironically enough, I watch all of the scipted hour-long shows you picked and thats EXACTLY the shows I would have picked for the top ten of 2009.
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had Darla from Buffy. Not anymore, so if it had any chance of getting into Herc's top whatever list of the whatever, it's gone
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I completely agree with the assessment above. Best show of the decade and highly probable best show of all time, and if you dont think so, you either havent seen it or you are a dumbass. The funny thing is, I know that statement makes people WANT to hate it. Ive had plenty of people come back after ep 1 of season 1 and say "pshhhhhh, this show sucks its overrated". The answer? Keep watching. By ep 5, they always come back admitting "Yeah, its amazing". The "he was gen-yoo-ine PO-lice" funeral scene in the final episode is amongst my favorite scenes in anything I've ever seen, movie or television.
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Was REALLY sorry to see it last one season cliff hanger and all.
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"you know, im smart, and theres another year left in the decade... you would know that if you were as smart as me."oh, you 'there was no year zero' people piss me off way more than i should let you.
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If Matrix were here, he'd laugh too.
Seriously, the omissions of The Wire and Supernatural alone are enough to make me laugh. Oh, and Angel was not in any way better than Lost in 2004 and I'm as big an Angel fan as anyone... I have all the season dvd's for that show.
But these are all just, like, your opinion bro. -
Is too funny.
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Why thank you Sir! Many people have been 'first' on a talkback but it takes real skill to be the official asshole of the talkback. And on this website, home to some of the biggest assholes on the googlet'interwebnets, that is saying something. My work here is done.
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Herc's word is not truth folks. Cursing his name because YOU do not agree makes YOU the problem. Do I thing TV Funhouse is the Golden Goose, or that Futurama is even pretty good? No way! But did any of you ever sit back and think that Herc gets a kick out of your complaining? Remember the "...of the decade" titles that angered and dominated Coaxial the past two months? Yeah, Herc did that - cause talkbackers are for him to poop on. That's what critic lists are for. Self promotion and personal agendas. Talkbackers are so stupid.
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...I'll suggest an honorable mention for 'Band of Brothers'. That show was 10 of the best hours of television I've ever watched.
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I find it odd that a series that is described as the following: "crazily unconventional hunk of sci-fi weirdness got off to a terrible start, but it’s currently on a way-too-late crusade of redemption" is number 5 on the list. Dollhouse has been great recently but to call it one of the years best hour-longs is stretching it. A few strong episodes doesn't make it a great show but instead makes the weak episodes more disappointing and the fact that it will be cancelled frustrating b/c it will never grow into a truly great show. A better title for this article would be Herc's favorite TV series not The best TV series b/c the Dollhouse selection appears to be such a personal selection. Putting the series above a consistently good FNL is a little embarrassing and brings into question the entire list. It is also disappointing that Chuck is not on the list. Chuck really hit its stride in season 2 and should be on this list, especially with Dollhouse at the number 5 spot. The rest of the list can be nitpicked but all the shows are worthy, if not necessary for a top 10 list.
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would have been shocked if Dollhouse didn't make it, I think if Whedon had an hourlong of him shitting on a piece of white paper Herc would love it, sadly I am the same with Lucas
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he goofed on it for being essentially pigs in space. but instead likes crap like gilmore girls,veronica mars (and dawson's creek) which are shows like buffy minus the supernatural element. hehe. i generally agree with most of his lists, but hate stuff like mad men, no matter how much everyone jerks off to it. mad men is bondage for 20 something chicks that dream of horror stories their moms or grandmas told them. it's so foreign to them that women were treated like furniture or cats that could speak. it also is a wet dream for guys that can't handle modern women who don't shut the F up, and wish for a simpler time when you could smack your bitch up, and get a handshake from the cops when they stopped by for coffee. (yes i realize the show isn't like that, but people think that time = the rat pack raping and pilaging girls coast to coast while smoking indoors everywhere). i would have easily plopped the Lexx and farscape in 2000, 01, and 02 onto those shortened lists. i have to give backhanded props to herc for BLASTING the news that skiffy dropped the axe on Farscape (with glee, herc?) i had only heard the news shortly before that, and will kiss herc's ass for reporting on the rallies we did to get it back on. i would also plop odyssey 5 on that list somewhere (since showtime sprayed it all over years) both seasons of carnivale were great, but only 1 got his mention. karen sisco was an abortion and unwatchable. i DETEST the OC with every fiber of my being in a jersey shore kind of way. and think chrismukkah should be destroyed from existence. doctor who's return was up and down, but may be the best thing that happened to TV this decade. and torchwood has gotten stronger each season, stripping away the smutploitation for honest character ddevelopment. i personally hate all the disciples of joss whedon, but herc loves everything under that umbrella down to the guy who got coffee (herc probably knows the starbucks he works at and drinks only there). i love when joss is on his game, and keeps his underlings in order. angel season five was genius. i'm sure there's a show i'm blanking out that's not on this list...if i can remember i'll post them.
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1. Lost
2. Sopranos
3. The Shield
4. The Wire
5. Six Feet Under
6. Dexter
7. BSG
8. Mad Men
9. Deadwood
10. The West Wing
unlucky not to make it are ; Rome, Tudors, 24, and Breaking Bad -
That's when it started to suck for me. Dexter is a fricking Psychopath! He doesn't really care about people, he only cares about survival, hence Harry's rules. When the TV series changed that, made Dexter a warm and loving family man, it killed the show for me. It was no longer unique.
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should be on the list. sure they are man-soaps, but the shield made me like a cop show (which i hate: thanks law and order, and CSI) all over again. and nip/tuck together with the shield filled my man-soap hole of OZ departing. rescue me also had moments of genius here and there.
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1. Curb Your Enthusiasm
2. Venture Bros
3. The Office ( UK)
4. Sex and the City
5. Arrested Development
6. South Park
7. The Office (US)
8. 30 Rock
9. Futurama
10. Entourage -
Michael C Hall - with Dexter and Six Feet Under,though James Gandolfini is a very close second,with Chiklis coming in third .
Actress has to be Eddie Falco, no one else came close over many years, if Damages had been up to season one quality and going for a few years Glenn Close would have been a contender -
and Politically Incorrect love, Bill Maher is the man
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The best series. Ever.
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...has gotten safe or soft have obviously not finished the fourth season.
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I meant the character Dexter, not the show. Yes, killing the wife was pretty dark, and I liked that, but what I didn't like was the character development that made the character Dexter into this warm and loving family man.
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Seems weird to me to just toss in The british office among a bunch of otherwise American TV shows. How many people including it have seen any other British shows? Doesn't make much sense.
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Runner up, Sopranos.
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The biggest problem with Dexter is that the TV series changed a dark comedy into a serious drama. The idea of a serial killer who kills serial killers is absurd in the extreme. That's why the books are dark comedies, because the books know they are absurd and go with it. The TV series has the ridiculous notion that it is a drama about the soul of man, Dexter, who has no soul. The only comedy relief is from Masuka and Debra Morgan's cursing. Otherwise it's played straight up. Which is bad enough, but then it breaks its own rules of the show. Dexter is supposed to be a psychopath, who are by definition incapable of feeling human emotions. Turning him into a loving husband and father is a big frakkin FAIL. This might as well be a TV version of Death Wish, if it's just about a righteous vigilante. It loses it uniqueness.
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I am an Aussie and have seen a decent amouunt of British, American and Australian tv, in the last decade I don't think that there is any doubt HBO has produced most of the best English speaking TV.And even a few collaborations with BBC
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I'm with you Hercules. I am soooooo sick of people bitching about being ruined by spoilers. The show came out last year for Christ sake!! What the fuck do you expect??? Now shut the fuck up, and go watch some TV, so you're better prepared next time!!!
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Take all the shit pop culture jokes out of Buffy and you have what, a 15 minute show?
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THE WIRE is a close second. LOST is, on the other hand, a steaming pile of shit that somehow managed to fool many of you into thinking it's "deep." It's a shaggy dog trick, kids, theres nothing to see here. Oh, let me guess, "it was all a dream." LAME.
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And it hasn't been great since the first season. Season three was awful and it's when they started taking away Dexter's edge. He rarely even killed. This season was better, but only the stuff with Dexter and Lithgow were watchable. All of the supporting characters are just filler -- generic and uncompelling.
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Jan 02, 2010 11:15:47 AM CST
I CANNOT believe Scify's "Flash Gordon" isn't on there
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
Oh wait.Yeah, I can.
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Hey Herc - Last season of The Shield was great. And if you haven't caught Sons of Anarchy, you're missing out! Seeing your list reminded me how much I miss Alias and watching JG kick butt!
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That's OK, your constant whoring of Joss more than makes up for it.
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Katey Sagal in Sons of Anarchy deserves every acting award that exist!
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My bad - The Shields final season aired in 2008. Hard to believe it's been gone for so long.
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I'll second the Band of Brothers honorable mention. Definitely my favorite TV viewing experience not just of this decade, but of all time. Can't wait for the sequel!
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no one should be rating it number 1 of the decade also, try watching the epis in one sitting...you will find that not much happens the wire is the best show of the decade, followed by the sopranos and then the venture bros
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Herc, you fucking FAIL AT LIFE!!!
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1) Angel
2) Lost
3) Dexter
4) Buffy (points taken for seasons 6 and 7)
5) Curb
6) South Park
7) Firefly (if i cheat and include the movie)
And then some other stuff, like Pushing Daisies, Wonderfalls, The Office, Veronica Mars, blah, blah -
1.)Arrested Development
2.)Titus
3.)The Venture Bros -
DOLLHOUSE took 1.5 seasons to finally become watchable and now it's cancelled. DOCTOR WHO (2005) was watchable from the start and is entering its fifth full season with three different lead actors.
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I would retort that if you sit and watch the Sopranos in several sittings, you will find that 60%-70% of the episodes are total go-nowhere filler where not much happens. The thing is, those other 30% are brilliant, thus the lofty reputation. I will always believe that Chase never expected that show to go past one season and was stunned when it did, and had no idea where to take it after that. After this past season of Lost, one could make many arguments against that show. However, "nothing happens" aint one of them.
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Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats! Puppies dressed as cats!
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Yeah, John Lithgow murdering Dexter's wife in a bathtub... so soft and cuddly. I'm getting warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.
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It would be lucky to make top 10 of the decade.
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When does FNL return to television?
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Herc, i never once complained about it (as i complained about no talkbacks for supernatural and smallville) but I've thought for a long time now that friday night lights is one of the best shows on tv--but i'd understand why it wouldn't get a talkback here... its not really in aicn's wheelhouse like smallville and supernatural, so i'm thrilled you recognized it. The characters are incredibly realistic and deep, no two are the same and for my money has the most exceptional performances for each and every one of its characters across the board... flawless casting.
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http://www.eztv.ityou may thank me with a blowjob from your girlfriend.
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i didnt watch the first two seasons of lost till they were on dvd watched them in one sitting, and i got bored....lots of walking and screaming for dr jack there are many interesting things that do happen on the show, but the smartest thing the producers did was to cut down the amount of the episthe sopranos never fell into that trap, as being on cable, they were not forced into creating 26 epi seasons lost is definitely in the top 10 as it has spawned many immitators i judge a show by if i can watch it for a second and third viewing and still see things that i missed the first time the sopranos and the wire are like that...not so much with lost
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But Fringe's character's aren't? Errm. Yeah. Blondy and Pacey are just a bundle of personality. There's only one good character on Fringe, which isn't enough to earn it a spot on a top ten of the decade.
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I suck.
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I don't know exactly how I'd rank the others. Lost, Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Angel... and I haven't watched Breaking Bad, Mad Men, The West Wing, Dexter, Sopranos, et al. But I have to say, considering how terribly Battlestar ended, all of the bullshit episodes that we went through over the course of the series (excluding the brilliant first season), make all of those shows better than BSG, not to mention Dirty Sexy Money, and some of the other ridiculous dramas I've ever seen. It pissed me off THAT MUCH. FUCK YOU RON MOORE.
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That is a non-nonsensical comment.
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take away michael c hall, and most people wouldnt watch the show
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fringe has the best father/son relationship on all of tv right now, period. (possibly exception being stan and randy marsh). Walter is compelling, hilarious but also has a deep sadness you can see in his eyes. each episode peter reveals something about how smart he is and how much he knows about everything, and while that may have seemed a convenient device for the writers to use, they are beginning to allude to why peter is special. dunham is kind of bland (but all of a sudden she got hot!)
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Putting it on a best of decade list is absurd. Especially when that decade included Deadwood.
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the wire is so good because its the only television show i've ever seen and maybe will ever see that i think is more like an incredibly deep, nuonced and epic novel than a movie or tv show.
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Glad to see Battlestar isn't forgotten just because its ending wasn't as great as a lot of people hoped. It was still a fantastic show most of the time.
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I understand these list are subjective to personal opinion and technically opinions aren't subjected to any sort of rigorous standards but Herc for the love of god put down the crack pipe.
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Chalk me up as another shocked by Hercs apathy towards Dexter.
Regarding the complaints about Dexter going soft. Sorry you guys don't like Dexter's developing humanity, but seriously were else could the show go? Even the first series was about him becoming more human.
Dexter himself is why the show is so fantastic. He is endlessly fascinating and Michael C Hall is amazing. He becomes more interesting with each season as far as I'm concerned, even at this point he is far from 'Dexter Morgan: family man' as people are suggesting.
Season 3 was the weakest so far but even that season was still great television. Season 4 was fantastic, as good as one and two IMHO.
I love Lost but I would be in heaven if it were as well written as Dexter. -
left the show after its' first season.
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The #2 through #10 slots are open for debate, but if you don't have The Wire at #1 you have absolutely no credibility when it comes to judging television entertainment. Lost and Dexter and Buffy are all perfectly nice little bits of entertainment, but no amount of supermodel cliffhanger mystery islands, cheerleader vampire hunters, and improbably scrupled serial killers can compete with the game in West Baltimore.
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I love this show. Everyone I know seems to feel the same way. I'm really surprised that anyone finds it boring, predictable or shit. As a kid I enjoyed the usual suspects; A-Team, Knightrider, Dukes of Hazzard (all of which are unbearable to watch now) then grew up on Miami Vice (equally horrendous to watch today), before eventually ending up loving the X-Files. Battlestar Galatica has became one of my all-time favourites (not sure how well this will hold up in years to come). As has Dexter, which I mistakenly thought appealed to a far larger audience than any of the past shows. I don't doubt it's as preposterous as any other TV series, but it's fun, interesting, and as charismatic as a TV show gets, in my eyes. While I watch Lost and find it entertaining enough, I can't help but think it'll quickly be forgotten once it's finished. Love Evangelina, who hopefully will get to make one or two movies. If Jennifer Aniston can, really the whole cast of Lost should be Hollywood stars!
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...and it laps the field. For me, and you have to remember this is all awfully subjective, I would do something like this: 2. Deadwood; 3. Lost; 4. Rome; 5. The Sopranos; 6. Mad Men; 7. BSG; 8. Angel; 9. Sons of Anarchy; 10. 24 Buffy doesn't make it because the bulk of the best of Buffy came in the 90s, but if I was making an all-time list of best dramas Buffy would be there. And from eight on there were quite a few shows that were all in the running.
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and gtfo with dollhouse.
best scripted drama- angel?man thats pathetic. -
...you know how bad I think your lists are, but thanks for the Ted love. It's my favorite comedy since Arrested Development. Well...I like Party Down an awful lot, too. And The Office had some awfully good seasons. And 30 Rock sure has had its moments. Still, thanks for the Ted love.
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but not The West Wing...you have short memories, my friends. The Wire wouldn't exist were it not for the success of The West Wing.It won more emmy's than an other drama in the history of television. not saying that intrinsically makes it any better than other series, but it should at least jog your memories.granted, it didn't have any aliens, vampires or serial killers, but unless you're making a Top Ten Fanboy Fluff Series list, then...wait...I think that's what everybody's doing. never mind, my bad.
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His #1 and #2 will be Buffy and Angel, and he doesn't feel like getting shit on for it! Which is understandable in my opinion. Not having The Wire at #1 is egregious. That show was the first real attempt at portraying the real socio-economic reasons behind street crime, and why it is tolerated, to an extent, by Police and Government. I remember reading an article by a Havard Prof saying due to a lack of formal scholarly study on it's subject matter, that the Wire is considered the definitive work on the culture it portrays. That is some high praise for a dramatic work.
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Have you ever seen a group of actors be more expressionless and wooden faced than on this show? I think they were all told to never smile, never emote, and make their eyes look as dead as possible. Maybe Sorkin wanted to prove that he could have robots deliver his dialog and still win awards. Anyways...enjoyable show...but total liberal fantasy masturbation, and for some reason it made Martin Sheen think he really had presidential experience.
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Do you like Benny Hill better than Monty Python?
I'm just really surprised that you prefer US Office to UK. To me US office is a pie in the face, british office more nuanced and shaded reflection of reality. Much more than just a comedy. But you're right I guess, It's subjective. -
...sorry, but I don't even think The West Wing is Sorkin's best show. And yes it did win a great many emmys, more even than Boston Legal, which also wouldn't make any list I made of best shows ever or of the decade. Now I do happen to love things with aliens and vampires...yeah, Draculas and Wolfmans and, as Herc notes above, Frankensteins. On the other hand, I look at the list I made above and see only three genre shows on it, and just one (Angel) that wouldn't make a list where I was trying to be absolutely objective and list what I considered the best television, as opposed to my favorite. Anything like this is objective, but for me West Wing shattered my tolerance for being preached at in a dramatic format. Preach at me subtly, preach at me with allegory, but don't just bang me over the head, all the time, with every available character. And I am quite liberal, as I would imagine you remember from talkbacks that have strayed into politics. West Wing clearly didn't cross that line for you, and that's cool, I know plenty of folks who loved it. But no reason to react with such scorn, because you must know that it did for an awful lot of folks.
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That deserves to be on the list moreso than Smallville!This "Decade" list only cements how far regular television has fallen and how much cable television has risen!
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I'm no Whedon fanboy by any means: I've tried watching Buffy but the high school drama and the supernatural plot lines just did not interest me, Firefly was smartly written but it bored me, and I am not a Dr. Horrible fan as I don't like musicals.
However, Dollhouse is fantastic! It plays with my mind in ways no show has done before, it makes me question myself and the world around me, and it has so much to say about us as humans and what we're doing to each other and the earth. Your readers must be crazy to not think it belongs in a top 10 list of 2009. -
Still its Herc list and he can do whatever he wants!
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Thanks for showing it respect at #3, also it is too bad that Peep Show hasn't aired in the states, because that would be in the top ten for sure.
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One of the best shows on television and proof that cool geeky references work well. I swear that every episode is fortified with 20 years plus of popular culture.
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So did all of the Whedonites get their rocks off watching the Buffy marathons on Logo? There is so much love for that overrated show. Believe it or not I liked the show, but it didn't change my life or television.
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Watch season 2, or at least the last 6 aired episodes. No doubt they cement Dollhouse's place among the best TV of 2009. And like Herc said, if the last 3 episodes are of the same, Dollhouse will most likely be among the best TV of 2010 as well.
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That's some bad TV right there. And any top 10 list without House on it really lacks all credibility whatsoever.
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I wish Doctor Who was more consistent. Hopefully Stephen Moffat will bring the show back to scifi roots. I like House too.
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A great show horribly handled by NBC. After 3 episodes, it was moved to Saturday night; after two Saturday airings it was pulled from the schedule and replaced with L&O reruns. The remaining 8 episodes were made available at NBC.com, a move that completely baffled me. Networks are hemorrhaging viewers to, among other things, people viewing, legally or otherwise, on the internet. So what does NBC do? After hyping and airing the beginning of a serialized show, they tell those invested in it "if you want to see how it turns out, you have to figure out how to watch it on your computer". Way to go - take your loyal TV viewing audience and force them into starting a relationship with the very medium that is killing yours. D'Oh!
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...and hope for the best from it. But potential isn't accomplishment and much as I wish it were otherwise Fringe probably wouldn't make my top ten of the last year.
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And in the entertainment world, to most - or at least many - that's the only thing that matters. I'd like to see Doctor Who up there someplace myself. Oh, well. USA! USA! USA! (sigh)
Glad to see Fringe in the mix though. -
Watching shows on television just feels better to me. Since televisions are bigger and look superior in many ways why watch on a smaller screen? I love Doctor Who so I wait a day to watch it on television instead of downloading it with poor quality. It's more comfortable on the couch instead of staring at a smaller screen.
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...I have pretty savagely critiqued the show on numerous occasions, even right here in these talkbacks, but it has gotten much better. Much better. Better enough to include it in a top ten for the totality of aired episodes in 2009? Probably not, at least not for me. But it has gotten good enough that I will now be sad to see it go.
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You have a known, long and documented history of inexplicably ignoring some of the best hourlongs on TV for years at a time in favor of retarded fucking reality shows. Your skills as a tv critic are on par with the average pepperpot housewife, face it, the part of your brain that discerns has a wet sloppy vagina.
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...tv sucked last year. Of your list I LOVE Lost (a lot) I used to watch Big Love but lost interest. I could never watch the rest of the list and not feel like I'm missing anything. I tried new BG, it didn't move me. Now before I get bashed about the head I'm not saying it was bad! Just that it didn't grab and hold my interest (and I tried several times). Mad Men (and I will not be convinced otherwise) is one of the most overrated tv shows in the history of the medium. Dollhouse, I really WANT to like (as I am a Whedon fan) but for some reason I just keep missing it. I figure I'll pick up the DVD set(s) and do a catch up on it soon. And no Dexter? P'sha!
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Way overrated. Vampires are played out in every medium possible right now other than, like, music. Maybe there too, I don't listen to vampire music anymore. But comics, books, tv and big scree = played out to the nth degree.
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Twilight and Let the Right One In on a video store shelf, and reaches for Twilight.
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Unfinished as it was. It needed one or two more seasons and a third role for Garrett Dellahunt to really tie things up.
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I'm not sure, but I think you may have misread the titles of some of these lists. I haven't yet posted a "best hourlongs of the decade" list, but if and when I do I assure you "West Wing" will be ranked higher than "Fringe."
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...is the best reality tv moment of the decade. Which means it's the best reality tv moment of all time.
Can someone tell me who came up with reality tv so I can kill them? That useless mindnuming bullshit is the main reason I don't watch TV anymore. -
It's like Elvis and The Beatles; everyone has their favorite but both bands and shows are leagues ahead of everything else. The notion that anything else on TV even approaches the quality of either Wire or Shield is ridiculous.
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that and Deadwood were just great.
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I'm sorry Jailbreaker but 6 good episodes and the potential for more does not make a show one of the best of the year. I agree that Dollhouse has finally gotten good enough that I am actually excited for the next episode and will recommend it to friends now but really is that worthy of being in the top ten. No it is not, especially not at number 5. Criticizing Dollhouse's place on the list is not calling it a bad show but only stating the fact that it has been at best inconsistent for most of its run and only good for a very short time.
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I love Deadwood. It's nice to see Westerns come back.
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And although Rome had more of an ending than Deadwood did, I was actually a little bothered that neither of them returned for more seasons. Great stuff that sometimes makes you wonder if you're the only person watching... until you come to a coaxial talkback, of course.
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Because you crazy people finally convinced me, I borrowed the first two season DVD box sets from the friend who tried to convince me to watch the damn show through it's entire run. I would have borrowed all of them but he already had them on loan. As soon as I get through the Monty Python 16 Ton Megaset that I got for Christmas I'll be moving on to The Wire.
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...the creators and producers of Cops or The Real World. Take your pick.
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"The Wire" is the best TV show of all time, any genre. In fact, I could maybe make the argument that it's the best piece of filmed drama (movie or TV) ever made - yeah, and I do mean better Citizen Kane and better than The Godfather.
Arrested Development is my choice for the best sit-com of all time. I can't imagine a list without these for top of the decade. -
You can throw in Americas Funniest Home Video as well.
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Breaking Bad as well.
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I can't believe someone else likes "Norm"! Definitely in my top 5 sitcoms of the 2000's!
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Dollhouse has many more than 6 great episodes. In fact, out of it's 23 episode run so far, I'd say 17 out of the 23 episodes have been great to varying degrees. I could look at each of the episodes individually and give you a detailed explanation on why I think they're great, and why those other 6 aren't, but I'm sure it would just be a waste of time for the both of us. And the next 3 episodes look to be absolutely terrific so 20 great episodes of varying degrees in a 26 episode miniseries is worth a top 10 spot to me.
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better than most shows on television, especially the small number of sitcoms we still have
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Do you guys think there is a big difference between new fandom and the old sort? I just find myself loving older fan stuff than the new stuff like Dollhouse. Love some Star Wars and Star Trek though. The new movie made me want a similar sort of show.
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now all is right with my universe.
from the looks of the talback, a lot of other people did too. I think the headline is a little ambiguous. but still, my bad. -
The West Wing is about a democratic president, and it's no secret that Sorking is a liberal, but I think only casual watchers of the show think it's all about liberal preaching. yes, a lot of the characters were pretty morally angelic, but that was the nature of the show. in reality, no white house staffers would be that doe eyed after being in politics for that long, but still...the show ,ade a point to show a lot of very ethical and capable conservatives, some of the best episodes show people with extreme liberal biases getting turned on their heads by a conservative that doesn't fit their preconceived ideas.I'm just saying, if amazon does another deal on the box set (best purchase I ever made), look into it, and just go from start to finish. the show isn't about preaching, really, it's about politics and personal relationships. and it was on forever, I'm sure there was a vampire in there somewhere.
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Who will be the new quasi messiah for the Whedon cult?
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I don't know if it counts as hour long scripted, but that is so much better than Fringe or Dollhouse.
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Believe me, I have thought long and hard about a best TV of the decade list, and how you would even approach it in regard to shows that started in the last decade, but ended in this decade. There is too much. But In Treatment, Damages, Life and Times of Tim, Frisky Dingo, Californication (particularly for season 2) and Carnivale would be added to the above. And yeah, that's like the best scene ever from True Blood.
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Better than 3/4 of the list.
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Jan 02, 2010 5:23:15 PM CST
Glad to see The Wire as #1 just being treated as fact...
by danielkurland
No use arguing.
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Six Feet Under. I mean, that show is pure drama, it is that fucking simple. It's remarkable how long they had you following such a selfish, mean main character, and not realizing how awful he was until it was all over.
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My favorite show of all time. Of all time!
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Jailbreaker Im glad you like Dollhouse b/c I do too but I watch a lot of television and go to numerous sources to read reviews of television programs and the general consensus is that Dollhouse has not consistently been a great show or anywhere close to a top 5 series. Im not saying that you didn't think 20 episodes were great or that you are wrong to do so but your opinion is in the minority and Herc's choice is clearly a result of his love for Whedon. Its just when an established critic writes an article about the 10 best hour longs and makes such a questionable choice, he is opening himself up to criticism. I like Dollhouse enough to keep it on my DVR and continue to watch it and It is far superior to Flashforward and various other hour-longs on TV but FNL, Breaking Bad, 24, Chuck, The Sarah Conner Chronicles, Lost, Sons of Anarchy, Mad Men, and The Shield are all shows that are really heads and shoulders above it in quality and consistency. I think that if Dollhouse was on for more seasons, it could potential grow into one of the best shows on tv but as it is now the selection is questionable at best. I would like to know Jailbreaker what do you watch for hour long shows and what are your top 5.
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Wow. My opinion --> AD is by far the best television show of the decade. This last season of "Dexter" is probably the best season of television ever. This last season of LOST was an abomination.
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You left out Six Feet Under, Dexter, The Wire, Curb, Extras, The Office (UK), Arrested Development, and the Sopranos. Of course, everyone has their own taste, but your rankings look like that of a fifteen year old boy.
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would also probably up there. Stella was on an incredibly short time but probably makes more jokes than some shows did in their several-year run (this is hyperbolized, but what an absurd show). And while Party Down has only been on one season, it holds up incredibly well, and foresee great things in its future. Hell, the later half of FRASIER isn't that great, but I can respect the fact that it was still pretty close to watching a play on television.
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My opinion is not in the minority of critics, though it is in the minority of the American public. And that is not a bad thing in my view at all. There's a reason why Dollhouse is on the majority of top 10 lists this year, published by respected and legitimate publications. I could offer you a number of links if you're interested, but I think if you really were interested, it would be something you had already known. And Google is always an option. As far as my top 5 of 2009, Dollhouse is definitely one, and I like a bunch of the other shows you've listed as well. But the other shows I like really have no weight on the quality of Dollhouse.
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Good show.I liked Invasion. It was all about darwinian altruism and kin selection. The only one in the brief era of Lost clones that I watched.
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they just finished up with season two of Party Down.
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The final season was an abortion
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Blasphemy
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We get it, humanity is horrible and technology will take over. How many times could they hit us over the head with the premise? Would it have killed us to have more action in this show? I love political intrigue, but I want action in my space opera.
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The pilot was really bad.
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Fail.
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That's the brilliance of the show. The detractors have no appreciation for nuance. He discovered his wife dead and his son sitting in a pool of her blood and showed no emotion. The whole point of the show is that he's been building cover for himself but it's becoming part of his life. He hasn't developed emotion, he's developed skill at blending in, and he's continually surprised by his own ability to do so. The conflict in the last season was that he thought he was bringing harm to his own family who are innocent people. To do so would be in violation of the code he lives by. And the continuing question running throughout the series is whether his code plus his ability to lead a seemingly normal life are a substitute for his inability to empathise with other people or not. From season 1 onwards the most compelling part of the show has been Dexter's unique outlook on life and that has continued unabated. He needed to develop socially in order to explore that part of his character. What's great is that the writers have managed to incorporate all of this without betraying the initial set-up. He's still a psychopath but by following a simple code he has managed to become something more. If you're still sore about the fact that it's not some sort of crime fighting serial killer procedural where he kills a new bad guy every week you should have stopped watching a few episodes into the first season. I think a lot of people here spend their lives permanently pissed off that a show turns out not to be whatever they invented in their mind when they read the synopsis.
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Whatever Moore says it played like he didn't really know how to end it, the last episode for the most part was great but should have ended with a shot of a Hera or Adama looking across their new home, the last few minutes of future Earth or our Earth was absolutely terrible and unnecessary.
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on how not to end a series, 1 month to go to Lost,can't wait
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I would love you to provide me with those links. I am always open to being proven wrong or to find information that will strengthen my viewpoint. Even if it can be argued that it should be in the top ten list. Number 5 is very high, especially above 24 and FNL and without Chuck or The Shield on the list. Also the shows you watch and your favorite among them is directly related to the Dollhouse discussion. If you only watch 5 hour long shows then Dollhouse being top 5 is not saying much. If you don't watch FNL, Lost, The Shield, Chuck or others, then this may explain Dollhouse being so high on your list. BSG and Fringe are not on my list b/c I don't watch those shows but they may in fact be better than one or two other shows that I enjoy. Additionally, if Dollhouse is considered one of the best shows of the year by some that must mean that it has been a weak year for television b/c a handful of amazing episodes should not be good enough to raise a decent show to among the best of the year.
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You get to experience the Wire for the first time.
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I don't actually feel like getting the links, as I'm sure you don't either as you didn't look for them, but here are a few who included Dollhouse in best of 2009 and even best of the decade: Time, Chicago Tribune, AV Club and there are many more but off the top of my head, these are the ones I can recall without going back to look. Sort term memory is shot for one reason or another so you're welcome to look into it further if you want to. The fact is: We like many of the same programs, as I again enjoy some that you've listed. But Dollhouse resonates with me in ways that it obviously does not with you, and you aren't going to convince me it isn't worthy of a good placement on a year end list, just like I won't convince you it is.
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HUH?!?!?
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Jan 02, 2010 7:39:20 PM CST
NO TOP TV DISCUSSION IS COMPLETE WITHOUT DANCING WITH THE STARS
by bringingsexyback
I would think you of all people would know that.
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Jan 02, 2010 7:49:08 PM CST
Fuck the Office, UK and US the best comedy of the past decade
by yetanotherunqualifiedopinion
was the league of gentlemen.
FFS the office wasn't even the best comedy here in the UK when it first aired. Phoenix Nights was far superior. Not sure if our american brethren ever would *get* either shows, but fuck me they were funny.
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Arrested Development...at 26. With Entourage above it. With Andy Barker, PI above it. Jesus Christ, Herc. Why don't you just hold up a sign that says you don't want anyone to respect your opinion. I'm not going to click on your idiotic section anymore. I'll just assume it's SNL-cheerleading and general insanity and go on my merry way.
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Somebody should have kept the lid on the abortion bucket that this piece of shit crawled out of.
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While I'll be one of the the first people to push Supernatural as one of the finest hours of geek programming on television, I don't know if I can fully agree with you on it being infinitely better than Dollhouse.
Dollhouse started off atrociously awful, to the point where it seemed Fox was actually right to cancel the show. Except for some miraculous reason, Dollhouse did a 180 and managed to become a emotionally complex, deep character drama with equal parts action and equal parts humor. And the end result was pure awesomeness.
I will admit that Supernatural is a criminally underappreciated show that should be on everyone's
Top 10 list. One of the most amazing things it has going for it is that the show is CONSISTENTLY good--even slow episodes like this season's Paris Hilton episode still manage to entertain tremendously.
And not only is it consistently good, it also gets consistently better from season to season, and the show is in the habit of regularly reaching greatness. The episode with Dean confronting Future Dean? Completely awesome. The episode with TV Land? Also awesome. Supernatural is such a great show; it's just a shame it's not as highly publicized as, say, Fringe, Lost, Dollhouse, or other similar geek-oriented shows. -
the authors on this site have really really bad taste and should not be reviewing anything.
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Top 10 overall
1) Deadwood
2) Lost - would be #1 if not for last two seasons
3) Sopranos
4) Fascape - guilty pleasure
5) The Shield
6) The Wire
7) Rome
8) Dexter
9) Arrested Development
10) Carnivale
Honorable Mention: Breaking Bad, Mad Men
Most overrated shows
1) West Wing (too left leaning with boring characters)
2) 24 - laughable show to me
3) Firefly (enjoyable but nothing special)
4) BSG - groundbreaking show that fell apart after 2nd season
5) True Blood - fun for one watch but mostly forgettable. certainly has room for improvement
6) Buffy/Angel - Just don't understand the love for these shows
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I hope your keyboard exploded after you posted that inane comment, impaling your face with the keys that spell out "fucking retarded" on your slack jawed face.
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In direct relation to the rising incidences of fisticuffs and hair-pulling.
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The funny thing is that I do enjoy Dollhouse a great deal and have watched every episode since it first aired. I am upset it is being cancelled but I cannot ignore the shows weaknesses or flaws. The fact is the first season of a show is usually weak b/c introducing characters and setting up the series' plot takes up most of the season so I don't think its surprising that Dollhouse is just hitting its stride towards the end of its second season. For me, it just hasn't been something that I have to watch the night its on until very recently. For most of the series I would DVR Dollhouse and usually watch it after finishing up everything else on my DVR from that week. A lot of other shows have for their entire 2009 run been must watch TV for me consistently week in and week out. It is b/c of its inconsistency that almost every admits exists for Dollhouse that I just cannot fully agree with you. The most recent amazing episodes have highlighted how weak the show has been for so long and how great it could or should have been.
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...but I do. I just don't care about these people's problems, and maybe it's because I'm female but I see NO need to recreate a world that revels in the inequalities between the sexes in those golden years of yore. I can appreciate the time and care spent in recreating the scenery faithfully, but after the first two episodes, I felt NO urge to be there anymore. I have GOT to get The Wire on DVD. Haven't seen episode one, and it looks kick-ass.
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I didn't give the Wire a chance until it was off the air. But based on all of the good reviews from people I trusted, I bought the entire series on DVD when it showed up 50% off at amazon. The Wire is ANYTHING but another cop show.
The same thing pretty much happened with the shield, but part of my issue there was seeing Chiklis playing a hard ass after playing the softy on "the commish". I finally gave in and wacthed the entire series and was surprised that I found seasons 5 and 7 of the shield surpass any season of the Wire for me personally.
I refuse to watch shows like CSI, NCIS, Law and Order, but missing the shield and the wire because of those shows is a huge mistake. -
i can't believe there's been enough of those to make a list. but even more sad is that people watch them. i respect the fact everyone has their own personal tastes, there are many shows i think are retarded but many think are great just like many shows i have or do love are considered crap by many. but i will never ever understand how anyone with a brain can enjoy reality tv. whether its the game show/contest types or the ones that follow people's lives or whatnot. its all just completely and utterly pointless and not entertaining in any capacity. sadly i know people who enjoy some of it and i can honestly say i think less of them because of it. but that's just my opinion so in the end i just wasted my time writing all this. :P
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Breaking bad, true Blood yes. mad men is an overrated piece of shit. Lost can go fuck itself, and bSG's last season was a trainwreck.
Here's the real question-What-No Heroes rating?
And you know what, this season of scrubs is just as good if not better than season one.
It fucking sucks. i'm really looking forward to all the new versions of suck that a new cast can take us to. -
I'm glad we both get enjoyment out of the show at least. Of course the most recent installments are the strongest the show has been, and has gone into in-your-face awesome territory, but I thought it was subtly awesome before. I know it's not a perfect show by any means, and of course it had some aspects (one might say flaws) that most people could not overlook, I do realize that. I'm just happy the show gets to go out on a high.
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this decade was all about one tv show and one tv show only. take your madmen/sopranos/third rock/shitty office remake/battlestar gaytacular (Yep, im that clever) and shove it up your shitpipes losers...
heres the real list:
1. The end of time part 2
2. The Sound of drums
3. Blink
4. Family of Blood
5. The Parting of the ways
6. The Waters of mars
7. Love and Monsters
8. Utopia
9. Doomsday
10. Rose
the rest of tv? didnt exist (apart from a few first season O.C.) -
Jan 02, 2010 8:35:34 PM CST
I LOVE WATCHING MIKE THE SITUATION AND PAULY D GETTING TAIL
by bringingsexyback
and Snooki scraping the bottom of the evolutionary barrel to find her dream guy.
Jersey Shore is simply the highest caliber of low brow entertainment. Love it. -
I like this category. To be followed by: "Best Sexually Communicable Diseases of the Decade", "Best Intestinal Parasites of the Decade", "Best Urban Homeless Freezing Deaths of the Decade" , "Best Sudden Infant Deaths of the Decade." "Best Kristin Wiig Recurring Character of the Decade." You get the idea, the best of a really lousy category of something is still pretty fucking lousy.
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fucks sake
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WHERE THE FUCK IS PUSHING DAISIES!!!!!!
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Jan 02, 2010 8:48:36 PM CST
SR Roberts-we need a crossover: Dexter meets Mad Men
by megan_foxs_tool_box
Hopefully, it is revealed that that blonde skag whats her face is a serial killer and so is draper. ,p>
Then Dexter smashes their fucking ugly faces into jello, right before being whisked off to a mysterious Lost Island.
Dexter realizes he is a serial killer, and then slaughters not only the cast and crew of lost, He bops over to slaughter the entire Survivor Production team.
Bear ghrylls tries to save him, but not before the Pumphrey brothers of human wrecking balls come in and dispatch them both with round kicks.
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and if someone doesn't get why arrested development is above all others, i probably don't understand their list either. ok so, 1.arrested development, 2.30 rock, 3.lost, 4.curb your enthusiasm, 5.survivor, 6.it's always sunny, 7.trailer park boys, 8. aqua teen hunger force, 9.sarah silverman program, 10. family guy.
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I don't have cable, so I always have to wait for DVD release for HBO or Showtime shows. Breaking Bad and Weeds are two of my favorites from the past decade. What about Rome? I haven't seen it, but hear it is very good too. Nice to see Howard TV thrown into the mix there. Despite what you think of him (I love him), you can't find content like that anywhere else in any media. Buck Angel riding the sybian is the most surreal thing I've ever seen in my life, and the largest hemmorhoid contest was the most outrageous and horrifying thing ever televised. I've watched every episode of Lost, but haven't been truly satisfied with it since season 2. I'm very skeptical of the final season, but will follow it through. What has held me in there is the characterization and the overall quality of acting. Curb Your Enthusiasm has provided a wealth of laughs and is another favorite from the past decade.
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gooseud - And I'm REALLY looking forward to it. I fought it for a long, long time simply because I hate hype and I hate being told what I should like. I actually fought Dexter and BG for the same reasons. Dexter, I was WAY wrong about. BG never convinced me. The Wire though, there's just too many levelheaded people in my "real world" life, as well as on these boards, saying things like "it's the best televisions series ever!" Or at the very least, "it's great - I think you'll dig it". So, I'm giving in. My friend actually gave me shit for about an hour before handing over the DVD sets, too. "Oh NOOOOOOW you want to watch it. NOOOOOW you're interested. Well, I don't really want to lend them out anymore - takes too long to get them back. And look at the corner of the season two box - it's all jacked up now." I knew he was kidding, but the bastid still made me sit there and take his shit for an hour. Are there really Whedonites? I mean, really? Is liking a certain TV show creator any different than liking an author or comic book artist? Everybody has certain styles that appeal to them. Some people dig Whedon, some people don't. But digging him doesn't mean you worship the ground he strolls upon. Interesting that point about MOST, but not all, of the Dollhouse episodes being good. That's pretty much how I felt about Buffy. Sometimes it was cringe worthy, but sometimes it was great.
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Loved the series opener for Breaking Bad season 1. Was blown away by the season 2 and 3 closers for Weeds. Thought the opening for Lost's season 2 opener was da shiznit! Thought the part where Kate and Jack rescue Charlie hung in a tree in Lost season 1 was the most genuine display of emotion in a drama I'd seen in years, if not ever.
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You've sold me on Dexter. Another show I've been meaning to check out. There's just too many hours of good TV out there, thanks in no small part to HBO and Showtime.
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than Arrested Development....
Just wow. -
Seriously... I like your taste in drama, but your taste in comedy is utterly baffling
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I enjoy it like candy, but it's not exactly "deep". It's basically a rehash of Xfiles. Enjoyable, but predictable, no?
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Andy Barker, PI is a gem of a show. I agree that it's certainly not as good as Arrested Development, but it's a close call on that one. Andy Barker was such a great show. . .it's a shame NBC ever canceled it. It had amazing potential.
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Mad Men just give's a massive soulgasm every time I watch it .
I'm in love..... -
...Yes ;)
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But better than '24'? Goes without saying, everyone has an opinion, but...Do you think you are a little bias toward Whedon? Not trying to be a dick about it. And, your list is qualified that most, I get that.
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PROJECT RUNWAY!?!?
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Any other show that started out as crappy as Dollhouse would've been trashed by the same people who now hail it; but, of course, since The Messiah was attached to it ... meh, wtfever. Terminator also started out crappy ... although nowhere NEAR as bad as Dollhouse ... yet, by the time it "got good" it may as well have been a tree falling in the forest with no one there to hear it (i.e., I wasn't there to hear it so who cares if it made a sound?)
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... even after being off the air for 2 seasons, is STILL better than a majority of the crap out there today ... or ever.
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Now you have to respect that even though The Wire is not on the overall top 10 list, it was listed on best of the year lists for every season. The glaring omission to me is the fact that Deadwood, which I consider to be even better than Sopranos, wasn't even given a second look. Great actors, great writing, and not really given it's due. Much like the Merovingian in the Matrix, whenever Ian McShane swears up and down with a "fucking cocksucker" in there once in awhile, it's like wiping your ass with silk. It just feels great and it's poetry that is never fully appreciated
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YOU GOT GOT!
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Can't say I am surprised.
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LUCY, DAUGHTER OF THE DEVIL classified as a "scripted half hour"...shee-it, the ENTIRE SERIES was maybe a half hour long...
Much missed, same as DELOCATED...someone needs to give Jons Benjamin and Glaser a more worthy time slot and commitment. Looking forward to ARCHER, though.
FUGGEDABUDDIES OF THE WORLD, UNITE! -
In all seriousness I loved that show.
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That's how long it's been on the air. I would put it in at least the top 2 or 3 of best comedies of the 90's, but I doubt it would make any critics' best of list for the 2000's. It hasn't been good for a whole freaking decade.
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the repetitive Family Guy, the Cleveland Show, and is going through a revival in my opinion.
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1. THE WIRE
2. MAD MEN
3. FUCKING DEADWOOD
4. ROME
5. CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM
6. ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT
7. EXTRAS
8. LUCY, DAUGHTER OF THE DEVIL
9. FAMILY GUY
10. BATTLESTAR GALACTICA*
11. THE OFFICE (NBC)
12. MIGHTY BOOSH
13. DELOCATED
14. DOCTOR WHO
15. THE OFFICE (BBC)
16. BREAKING BAD
17. THE SOPRANOS**
18. KING OF QUEENS
19. LITTLE BRITAIN
20. SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE***
*Up through the conclusion of the New Caprica storyline, but also including Razor
**Anything NOT involving whiny-ass Carmella, AJ and Meadow
*** Isolating Wiig, Hader, Elliot and Armisen -
COME ON!
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These didn't "Just miss", I fucking forgot 'em:
MY NAME IS EARL, CORNER GAS, METALOCAPLYPSE, VENTURE BROTHERS and ROBOT CHICKEN.
Point is, if your not getting any entertainment value out of your idiot box, you're really not trying... -
when they put it up against supernatural. that show has had a hellagood run and now that lucifer has risen... i mean, please.
my list would have to include supernatural, buffy, angel, carnivale (one of the greatest things ever made), and arrested development (the reruns still kill me), chuck, pushing daisies and battlestar galatica.
sarah connor chronicles gets extremely honorable mention. -
Two words, shit sandwich
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I've never seen a bad episode and you can pick it up really easily. Seems we've gone away from the single episode show and into major arcs.
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hands down, if you havent watched it yet...dont wait
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fucking sucked
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Be honest, you made this category for the sole reason of showing you could make a list of 10 talk shows without including either of Jay Leno's shows (not that I'm disagreeing, I just think its funny).
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Herc must have the mind of an 8 year old because that is 24's demographic.
I've watched them all and last season was as dumb as the rest. -
Great shows and the only reason to watch Cable/Basic TV. Can't get into the other stuff like Wire,Lost however, their concepts are more original than say Fringe, which is just a shameless X-files ripoff.Shout out goes to The Batman, Boondocks and of course...
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The best animated series since....since...anyway, this series kicked ass thanks to great direction from Timm,Tucker and especially Mcduffle who gave us the venerable Cadmus Saga.There's no other animated action series that can top this. Speaking of animated series, another shout-out goes to family Guy. Shameless,politically incorrect but so damn funny. eff the simpsons.
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but I loved every episode of JL.
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This is the worst piece of shit list I have ever read! And to all the people saying it is just hercs list, look at the fucking title.
Does it say Hercs Favourite Tv Shows?
NO
It says the best Tv of 2009, and Herc put mother fucking Dollhouse on the list instead of Dexter, I have never read soemthing as stupid in my entire life! -
this is a joke, right?
True Blood season 2, despite being wildly uneven, had some great stuff in it. But of the silly bits, few things were sillier than Godric's boring zen hobbit vampire. It's hard to imagine Eric loyally following this guy for centuries. -
Godric reminded me of Isaac from the original "Children of the Corn"
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Jan 03, 2010 7:44:46 AM CST
Let me guess, Herc: the reason you didn't like BSG's Finale is..
by expert40
... because you're an atheist, right?I have yet to meet an atheist who like the finale. And to them I always ask:WHAT FRAKKING SHOW DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS WHOLE TIME???There is a professor here at UGA who loved every second of BSG, even Black Market, until the end. Why? I is what I like to call a "Richard Dawkins Atheist." Meaning, he's a complete douche bag to anyone who actually believes in any kind of divine presence in the universe. We're all stupid because of our "God Delusion," if you will.Me, the thing I loved the most is the fact that the show was always able to weave science with a divine power, that they can coexist. Whether you call it God, or a presence, or something else entirely, there was always something or someone behind the scenes waiting for humanity to break the circle of violence. And as someone who is also a history major, I loved that part, too.The Finale fit the show. Hera WAS special. Maybe not in the way many people believed. She wrote the notes that found the second Earth. She was the reason for the truce. Starbuck was Jesus. She came back from the dead, body and soul, and ascended to the "other side" when her job was done. I loved the analogy of it all. Yeah, there were some questions I wished were answered, but to anyone who watched BSG and actually understood what they were watching over the course of 6 years and four seasons, the finale can't be anything but satisfactory.I just don't understand people who don't get it. And I always think: What frakking show do you think you've been watching?
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... seem to always have a measure of the divine or the mystical or unexplainable in them.With all apologies to the complete bore that is Star Trek: TNG and the often times far too preachy nature of counter-culture-influenced OG Trek, Star Trek: DS9 is by far the best Star Trek series ever written.And I think the reason is because it is unafraid to show that in the future, there are still people who are religious and have things like FAITH as opposed to the feeling like science replaces religion. RDM created DS9.
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Season 2 was mediocre at best and season 3 has been a complete abortion in every possible facet. Season 1 was amazing, one of my favorite seasons of the decade of any show, but when it started to evolve into the "reason of the week" to keep Karen and Hank apart, it just got too retarded. The episode this season where Hank and Runkel go on a bender and get robbed in a liquor store was amongst the worst episodes of any show this year.
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Thats not the reason I lost interest in BSG. It was more the complete and total self serious lack of sense of humor, and overall pompous arrogant insistance that "We are NOT a sci fi show, dammit!! We are talking about IMPORTANT ISSUES, DAMMIT! Really really important! VITAL!!" Oh fuck off with that self-important bullshit, and show me some damn space battles.
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I loved how season 2 was one big Gatsby metaphor, and while I agree that season 3 felt like it was just the same old shit, and going through the motions, after the finale (which was maybe their best episode, by the way) it put everything in context. The point was that even after all of Hank's fucking around this year, and ALL of his transgressions, it is something ELSE on his own terms, that ends up ruining everything. It was the perfect coda to seasons one and two.
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I do agree that was the worst, by far, and you'd think that with them getting held up at the end, it would maybe have had some significance, but no. I can look past it though, because the brilliantly written one-location episode, "The Apartment" more than makes up for it. This was no season 2 though.
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I am an atheist (huge fan of Richard Dawkins) but enjoy fantasy whether it be Star Wars, Lost, Egyptian mythology or The Christian Bible or BSG.
Thought that it was unnecessary to have that bit at the end in Modern/ our Earth, also thought the last 6 or so episodes had too much padding, badly edited and paced, especially with how great the series had been -
I've gone from hating him in season 1 to loving-jealous of him in season 2, now despising/sick of him after season 3. I hope the show is over for good.
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10th!?! You know what.... fuck Craig Ferguson!
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Now feed Wu's pigs!
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Hank Moody went from lovable rogue to douchey asshole this season. The number of embarrasingly bad moments this season were uncountable. The duel episode? Gahhhhhhh.
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Even in it's weakest season, The Sopranos kicks the crap out of all of those. I am so happy I have a pubes and a functioning penis and that it likes women.
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The Wire belongs at the top of every Best Tv of the decade list, at least of any tv critic worth his or her salt. I may love Lost or Buffy more, but to the extent that any objective measure could exist of these things, The Wire is surely no 1.
I thnk Herc is too hard on Dexter. I came late to the show & think some of its hardcore fans do it a disservice by hyping a very good show as a great show. It's not great, but I find it reliably good despite the flaws. -
I do have a problem with Cylons. They murdered EVERYONE. BSG stopped being about plucky humans, and became The Cylon Show. Lazy, stupid, and shortsighted.Biggest fall from grace ever.
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Mad Men is actually the most predictable hour long drama. Don Draper is always going to be a dog, Betsy a psychotic, Moss the precursor of women's lib, et. al. And who didn't see them breaking away from Sterling Cooper, or the Drapers getting a divorce? The JFK episode was very poorly handled, by the way. Lost became good again. Battlestar, except for a few gigantic hiccups (like the last 30 minutes) was the best series on TV for the last five years. Breaking Bad has incredible performances but the writing is lackluster, at best. I don't know why you have Dollhouse on here since only the last four hours have been really exceptional. 24 made a comeback and deserves a spot in your top 10, although I think Cherry Jones is miscast. Friday Night Lights and Big Love are waaaaaaaaaaaay overrated since we have seen these scenarios before and the episodes are just rehashes of previous plot points. True Blood is great but the whole manead thing was way overlong since the whole premise made no sense. Godric, who is a much bigger character in the books, should have stuck around longer. Fringe is getting better but doesn't belong on this list. Instead, since these are all opinion anyway, and we are talking about Best Scripted, which eliminates acting and personality, here is a more coherent and logical top ten list. 1. Battlestar 2. True Blood 3. Lost 4. Burn Notice 5. The Closer 6. House 7. Monk 8. Supernatural 9. Glee 10. Flash Forward. On the other hand, everyone's list is valid. Just because it appeals to the masses doesn't mean it should appeal to you and vice versa. Everyone has the right to their own opinion.
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...how it proves your manhood that you prefer a show, the Sopranos, which is absolutely dominated by large, powerful, often quite hairy men, and where the three major female characters (Melfi, Carmella and Livia) are all dysfunctional mommy figures to... shows that featured Charisma Carpenter, Julie Benz, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Alexis Bledel and more, often in various stages of undress. It's not even that I disagree with you about the relative places in the tv pantheon these shows inhabit. Just the curious need to tie your opinion to your genitalia.
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Are you completely out of your fucking mind? That series limped to an ending and spent most episodes regurgitating the same things over and over. Great series, shitty ending season.
Leaving off Sons of Anarchy is fucking ridiculous. And The Shield is easily in the top 10 best dramas of the decade. -
...Buffy didn't limp to its conclusion. It ended on a high point, with Buffy consciously rising to meet the ultimate requirement of her destiny... ...at the end of season five.
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Putting Dollhouse that high on your list seems a little odd. It has gotten much better, but the earlier episodes of that show were bad enough that it shouldn't be that high. A desperate rush to get things done as it closes doesn't completely make up for the overly dragging pace of those early episodes. Ultimately, that lack of a recognizable agenda when setting up the show early on is the the reason it got canceled.
But, the Buffy stuff is wrong. I would agree it is definitely a top five of all time show. But putting season 7 over Six Feet Under is retarded. It's almost as crazy as putting the last season of Angel over Lost. I am a big fan of Angel, but saying it was better than Lost makes you lose a lot of credibility. I understand how much you love Whedon, but that isn't being objective, it's blind bias. -
Can someone tell me why I hate Herc so much? Do I have some kind of fucking mental problems if I let an AICN 'journalist' get me all heated up with their constant horseshit hack intraweb journalism?
Dollhouse in top 5 just pissed me off so bad I can't.........sigh......................why herc..........
WHY CAN'T I QUIT YOU HERC -
Combined with football = the only reason I still own a television. Fact!!
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I was a great Herc defender for a long time, because I really didn't get the hate, BUT... it may have been that way because I rarely read stuff from him. NOW... I think he has no clue about TV.
NO DEXTER????? HELLOOOOO?
And by the way, Shield was the best Series of the decade, if you wanna talk about quality and continuity.
My best Tv of the decade would have included:
Shield, Wire, Sopranos, Dexter, Supernatural, Angel (no Buffy for me. Angel was better), 24 (where some season were really shitty, but the other really really strong and i just love tony and jack), Battlestar Galactica.
Oh, and no, Dexter isn't overhyped. Season 3 was a bit boring but the rest was great! -
My wife loved it. Would have liked to have seen the Serenity storyline play out over a few seasons instead of over a few hours.
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Easily one of my top 2 or 3 hour longs of the decade.
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I forgot animated shows. Justice league owned all, but I also liked the batman very much
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...watch an assload of TV!! It only gets two, yes TWO, guaranteed hours from me each week (Survivor and CSI on Thursdays) and I would wager no more than ten hours tops.... unless you count NFL Football and NBA League Pass... because that's most of what I watch. Heh.
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I have a hard time taking a list seriously that puts Gilmore Girls, Buffy or Angel on top of the Wire. Just sayin.
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I'm surprised Jersey Shore didn't make your list!!!
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Bridget Regan...Mmmmmmm.
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Jan 03, 2010 4:13:39 PM CST
THE WIRE is the best show ever on the T.V. if you don't agree
by mr dark
Mr. Omar's comin
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This has been a golden decade for quality television..B.bad , mad men, the wire, west wing, 24, sheild, fuck what more can I say if one only looks there were jewels everywhere and in all catagories.
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RDM didn't create DS9 at all. I love the show, Iove RDM and love the impact he had on DS9. It was created by Rick Berman and Michael Piller (or stolen from Babylon 5 as I have recently discovered). Other than that I agree with what you're saying.
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How awesome would a threesome with Bridget Regan and Tabrett Bethell be?
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...every time I think about what I signed off on for the top ten I want to change something, find some way to wedge in a different show, and that's a sign there was a lot of good stuff out there. The 0s were terrible for a lot of things, but at least there were some good things to watch as the world went to hell.
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...I really liked that show. For all its leaden dialogue, terrible acting and painful anticlimaxes it was that show and the first season of Murder One that gave me my first real "Oh shit, they went there!?!" moments watching television. Wiseguy, too, I guess, the first two seasons of which were pretty radical for the time.
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I am sick and tired of all this "decade" crap. When a person is counting, they start with ONE, not ZERO. There was no Zero B.C. or Zero A.D. The first decade began on January 1, 1 A.D. and ended on Dec. 31, 10 A.D.
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Comedy, drama, it all is included... in no particular order sans the Top 3
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Battlestar Galactica
The Wire
Angel, Lost, House, Dexter, Weeds, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Wonderfalls (it. fucking. rocked. period.) -
Gould and Asimov rather famously argued about this around the time of the millennium. They concluded it was arbitrary and that they didn't really give a shit. Although I'm nominally in your camp on this (to the very limited extent I can make myself care) the world has pretty much chosen the other path. Fact is old Exiguus misfigured the whole "Let's get Jesus born on December 25" calender so badly that the third millennium probably really started in 1996, and the whole problem only started because there wasn't a Roman character for zero. Besides, modern-day astronomers (who are aware of and do use zeros) count 2010 as the first year of a new decade. You can thank Jacques Cassini for that. In short, let it go. Really.
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First of all, we're talking about 8 hours of the British Office compared to 50 or so hours of the American Office. It's not fair to say one show had more good jokes than the other. Of course the America version has had alot more jokes, some funny, some not. They've been at it for alot longer. Second of all, the British Office wasn't strictly comedy. It was also biting social commentary. But if you're going to compare straight up, look at the first 12 episodes of the American Office and compare that to the British Office. Look at the overall quality of episodes. Whereas the British version, each episode was a 4 or 5 Star effort, the American version has had dozens of average to sub-par episodes and some very awkward storylines that were downright mean or didn't work. The show has steadily gotten worse and has neutered the funniness of the main character on the show by giving him the girl and making him a boss.I'm the last guy to try and be a snob and tell people what they should think is funny, but you're comparing two shows that, although they share the same title, have verged in two totally separate directions. The British Office is a drama that has a lot of funny parts and makes you care about the characters. The American Office is a slapstick comedy that relies on increasingly unlikely scenarios to make the characters look stupid. It's like comparing Dumb & Dumber with Dr. Strangelove, both funny movies, but one is just for laughs and the other one has a deeper meaning to it...
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this decade being over has nothing to do with "no year zero" or whatever complaint you all have. its pretty simple, this decade is now over because we went from Jan 1st 2000 all the way to Dec 31st 2009. that's ten years, hence a decade and in this case its the 00s decade. see...its not hard to understand kiddies.
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...the people who argue the other side don't believe the 0s started until January 1, 2001. They believe this because there is no year 0 in the Julian calender and therefore the first year was "year one". Because of that, the first decade ran from the start of year one to the end of year ten. Had to, to make a decade. The fact that all of this is arbitrary and is based on a horribly inaccurate calender hacked together for contemporary political reasons over fifteen hundred years ago by a guy who didn't have a mark to make for zero and that modern astronomers, since about 1750 have ended decades the other way is all evidence that it shouldn't matter. But if you just say January 2000 to December 2009 they'll say you started the decade at the wrong place and the argument will continue. And it's a really, really stupid argument.
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If I were the third wheel or you?
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Bo Jackson only played a short amount of time, but the few games he did play, he was unstoppable. Over 5 yards a carry. Then look at a guy like, say, Ricky Williams. He's been around longer and has had a lot of highs and a lot of lows. He also has the benefit of alot of seasons to rack up his yardage. But he never had a three year stretch as great as what Bo Jackson did, playing only half seasons...
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...your example works against you in a way you shouldn't let it. In sports longevity is part of what makes a player great. Careers that burn bright but end quickly due to injury or flameout are not considered as great as those that endured. For instance, I'll bet you remember Nolan Ryan. But do you remember Steve Busby? The Hall of Fame never will. You want something along the line of the cultivation of a single perfect rose, a rose that is not deep red but true black, against a gorgeous garden. There are more flowers in the garden but no one of them is as sublime in its perfection as the single rose. Because both of those things were on purpose.
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Like Chauncey Gardner, I like to watch. Throw in Charisma Carpenter for good measure and then we really have a party.
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No love for what was an excellent show screwed by the networks once again.
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You trendy poser fucks.
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other than Omar, there were no likeable characters, and it was very slow paced.
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...you didn't like Daniels? Bunk? Carver? Sydnor? Bunny Colvin? You didn't like Lester Freamon? And AG, thanks for bringing up The Wire again. None of the other trendy posers had mentioned it in close to twenty posts.
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Propostiion Joe? Beady Russell? Bunny Colvin?
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You know you watch it!!!
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You know you watch it!!!
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But I will never understand why people love Lost. Every time I tried it, through the years, it was some crappy schlockfest that was half boring flashback. Did they just stop doing that (the Lifetime movie flashbacks) at some point, or did everyone just get okay with it?
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What about Bodie? How could you not like Bodie?
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Highly disappointing! I have mixed feelings about the introduction of Jacob. And please: Will the real John Locke stand up. If the real Locke is gone for good the show is dead to me.
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As this is my very first day posting on aicn talkbacks, I gotta give a thanks to Herc, without whom I would never have discovered Veronica Mars, one of my favorite shows of the decade.
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I had the same complaint about the Lost flashbacks. They've been doing them a lot less since the end of season three. And when they do do them, they tend to be a lot sharper.
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he didn't get much screen time tho
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Jan 03, 2010 7:07:51 PM CST
The Shield's Last season was the only one to ever make a list???
by linguo_is_dead
Do you watch television???
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I would just like to kiss a little ass of Huff (killed before it's time) and Da Ali G Show (Top Ten comedy of the decade)
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Jan 03, 2010 7:25:50 PM CST
Speaking of shows killed before their time
by gods_donkey_is_an_ass_holy
top 5 shows of decade canceled too early: 1)Arrested Development 2)Deadwood 3)Pushing Daisies 4)Veronica Mars 5)Huff.
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honorable mention to Andy Barker and Andy Richter Controls The Universe, Carnivale...I know there's more
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I think (maybe? maybe!) we cut BBC Office slack because it was first and it came from novice writers who never really did much prior. But the show for me has HUGE pacing issues. I remember this interminable David Brent music video, and this Dirty Bertie doll sequence, and these just-got-fired in-an-ostrich-suit sequences I thought would never end. And there was this long long loooong and (for me) laugh-free dance-off between Brent and his new boss that pretty much made me want to kill myself. I think if the NBC version indulged this sort of thing I would have stopped watching a long time ago.
Also, while the NBC Office has freely adopted the trademark "Brent makes an idiot of himself in front of an assemblage" bits, the newer series uses them more sparingly (on a per-episode basis) and is much better about getting out of them before they wear out their welcome.
Also also, I wouldn't count out the NBC Office's (blessedly rare) dramatic moments. I recently caught Casino Night, in which Jim suddenly revealed to (the engaged to Roy) Pam that he was in love with her, and the interplay was mesmerizing. (By contrast, I still can't quite puzzle out what question Dawn said "no" to at the end of the second season. "Would you mind leaving your boyfriend before the two of you head off to Florida and start dating me now?")
Two things, for the record, I LOVED about the BBC Office were the wheelchair girl in the stairwell and Keith, the lethargic fat guy who kept answering "I don't know" to all his appraisal questions.
If you get more and bigger laughs per episode out of the BBC Office, I can't tell you you're wrong. But even if you factor in NBC's worst episodes, the version with Angela, Kevin, Stanley, Meredith, Kevin, Kelly, Toby, Creed, Daryl, Oscar, the Nard Dog and Mose better gets the job done for me.
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You caught me. I have never watched television.
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For me (and perhaps me alone) 2003 boasted five four-star (or better) “Buffy” installments – “First Date,” “Get It Done,” “Dirty Girls,” “End of Days,” and “Chosen.” Remember Giles terrifying the Chinese slayer with his flashcards? Spike reclaiming his duster and striking a match on the demon’s head? Dru’s introduction to William’s creep-tastic mom-vamp? The slayerette pillow fight that precipitated Xander’s “leg cramp”? Faith’s battle to the death with Mr. Spock? Dawn casually tasering Xander? Angel going Indiana Jones on Caleb? The digressive discussion of tentacles and Matthew Broderick?
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You know it. I know it.
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Can you believe Big Hoss bought a fucking hot air balloon? A hot air balloon!!! I expect that craziness from Chumlee, but that was a curveball I could not see coming.
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I think a lot of people are incorrectly picking it as the best show on television because it's a period piece and everything looks so glam.
The best scripted -- and acted -- show on television is Breaking Bad. The season finale last season was amazing. You can't tell me you didn't get goosebumps when Jane's father lays the blue dress on the bed, and in the very next scene Walt lies his newborn down on the bed in a similar fashion.
Beautiful.
Best show on TV. -
It made me respect my refrigerator so much more. I also loved the episode with the wood inlay boxes. Such craftsmanship!
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...the first. I still don't love a lot of that season, for whatever reason. But from the second season on I felt there was several classic, several great, several so-so and several mediocre episodes each go 'round. That's why, I guess, I can never consider myself a Whedonite, or whatever derogatory thing people think they're calling those that dig his work. I really dig Buffy. Like, enough to buy the complete series on DVD. But I don't love, or even like, every episode of the series. I actually though Firefly was a much more consistent show, but the one season issue will always put it lower on the totem pole.
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feels like its been years and I don't remember much.
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American Office is too usual sitcom for me. I like it, but i never really watch it. The British version is more like ONE movie cut into 12 parts where as the american version feels like it has sequelitis already. I prefer the deadpan, real awkwardness of the UK.
My Top 5 Comedies since 1999: Office(UK), Arrested Development, Spaced, Extras, and Flight of the Conchords.
What sucks is all my favorite comedies have had very short lifespans.....but for the better in my opinion. Bittersweet.
Yeah, I am a pretty big Ricky Gervais fan, so I'm biased, but Karl Pilkington has a head like a fuckin' Orange. -
It's that it is simply the most overpriced cookware ever.
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When Jack and Kate rescue Charlie hanging from the tree in Season 1, that, as well, was one of my favorite dramatic scenes of the decade.
Let's see, what else is there:
-- Adama saying goodbye to Laura in series finale of "Battlestar Galactica."
-- McNulty and crew listening to tape of Det. Greggs being shot in season 1 of "The Wire."
-- As mentioned above, Jane's father lying the blue dress on the bed, and in the very next scene Walt lying his newborn down on a bed in a similar fashion in the Season 2 finale of "Breaking Bad." -
Jan 03, 2010 8:33:16 PM CST
Some people hate Whedon because it's Whedon
by gods_donkey_is_an_ass_holy
As much as people attack herc for "being on Whedon's nuts" some people dismiss his work for the same reason. I don't think of myself as a Whedon devotee but there's no dispute Buffy is one of the best shows of all time, Angel was one of the greatest spin-offs of all time, never watched Firefly but I thought Serenity was good, and Dollhouse had a good first season, boring second season up until the last five episodes which have been great.
As for the two Offices, I think the British version holds up better, it's humor was more dangerous with the dildo jokes and race humor (which is no fault of the U.S. version they can't get away with as much). David Brent vs. Michael Scott is no contest. Michael Scott is a likable guy that's a douche. David Brent has virtually no likable qualities but somehow you end up liking him. The episode when he get's fired and begs them not to fire him is one of the greatest performances of the decade. -
They sure were unlikeable. Plus, as Mad Men has shown, you cant have a good show without a ton of one dimensional slapstick likeable characters, right? Thats why 2 1/2 Men is on every critics top ten list every year......wait, what?
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as tempted as I am to pick the "You gonna take care of me??? You gonna protect me???" scene from season 4 of the Wire, or "Where's Wallace??", or Kima in the car undercover, or wounded Omar calling out Marlo in the street, or the showdown between Omar and Brother Mouzone, or Avon and String reminiscing on the balcony in season 3, all the while each knows the truth about the other......as much as any of those would be worthy choices, my personal favorite scene of the decade is the "THIRTEEN!!" gladiator scene from Rome.
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And now I know how it ends. Thanks guys! No hard feelings really. I'll enjoy watching it all the same. I just want to say that Bryan Cranston was the reason I watched Malcolm in the Middle (one of my fav sit coms ever) every week and I'm very happy to see him find the role of Walter White, into which he has melded!
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'Selfless': Anya-centric ep that not only brings back a moment from OMWF but D'Hoffram's best lines "Looks like someone slaughterd an Ambercrombie & Fitch catalog" & "Why go for the kill when you can go for the pain."
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...I doubt you're alone on it but I sure ain't there with you. Mind you, I wouldn't have wanted to have the job of trying to put together a season seven after the carnage that was wreaked on the mythology of the show and the personalities of the characters that took place in season six. I love the first five seasons of Buffy. Right now I'm watching season three with my kids, and this will make the third time we've watched the first five seasons together. I've shown them Once More With Feeling even more times but I haven't shown them any of the rest of season six or season seven. And it really isn't an age thing. I know we hashed this stuff out plenty of times in the old days when the show was still on but since you brought up your bit (although in regards to seven) again I feel the need to bring up the counterpoint. So here it is: 1. Buffy was never a subtle show, but the allegories it used to tie fighting monsters to normal teen angst were filled with tricks and loops that made the interplay clever. In season six there were no tricks. There were no loops. There was deadening sub-Dawson's Creek soap opera ham-fisted beating of the bloody obvious into a pudding of pablum. What unexpected thing happening during Willow's death march through drug...sorry, magic addiction? Did they really need to have an actual crack...sorry, magic house? What passed between Buffy and Spike played like a dirty-minded sixteen year old's notion of a wild relationship that somehow crashed into a afterschool special. And really, Doublemeat Palace? 2. The loss of character threads that had been built up over four or five seasons. Season six started the movement of Xander's character from goof to the absolutely self-absorbed prick who shrugged off Anna's death at the end of season seven. It turned the danger of magic away from releasing uncontrollable powers to "you know, man, I gotta' do a few spells just to feel normal", because the people handling the show at that point were too dim to handle metaphor. In the process Willow's character was irretrievably lost. It never came back, not all through season seven. And they turned Spike from an interesting character into a mini Angel echo, slouching off to get by golly redeemed. Horrible, simplistic primary colors only writing all across the board. 3. This was not about the show getting darker. The show was much darker in season two when Jenny was killed, Giles tortured, Buffy made homeless and Angel dispatched after his soul had returned. Season five was much darker, with Joyce's death and Buffy's realization that death was her gift. That's an apologist's screed for season six, not born out by the dramatic impact of what occurred (one Scooby's girlfriend dies and Buffy and Spike have an issue). Oh yeah, and Willow skins a bad guy what deserved to get skinned before Xander concludes the season with the most empty-headed "hey if it only took something that big to snap her out of it why didn't something do it before this" speech in the history of television. And yeah, there's a bunch more, but I feel silly enough already arguing all this again. I'll end by just saying this: Putting seasons six and seven at the top of top ten lists steals the credibility from giving high ranks to the seasons that were actually good. Spleen vented. Done now.
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Jan 03, 2010 10:21:38 PM CST
Let me be another whiner on behalf of Arrested Development
by tonywendice
Reasonable people can disagree on "Best of" lists, which is usually why I avoid these talkbacks. How can you disagree or get angry with someone's opinion after all?......weeeellll, when I saw NORM at #26 and ARRESTED at #28.....all that went out the window. I'm speechless. The show is an absolute classic with comedy in ALL it's forms. There is slapstick, satire, political humor, lowbrow, highbrow, in-jokes that reward repeat viewing, double entendres, triple entendres, black comedy, puns, farce, EVERYTHING. These 2-bit, half-assed, shallow-as-hell, made in someone's basement on weed Comedy Central and Cartoon Network shows you ranked ahead of Arrested couldn't hold it's jock. (South Park being the exception, I can't argue that) Many of the other shows I am or unfortunately WAS an avid viewer of, but not are as consistently hilarious as Arrested. I'm a huge Entourage fan, but it's a guilty pleasure with a few completely empty characters. The 2 Andy Richter shows were great and deserved to be long-running shows, but couldn't hold together the farcical and the surreal with the "reality" part of the show as well as Arrested. And don't even get me started on Futurama or King of the Hill. Herc, you're going to need to explain your comedy picks to me my man, I just can't wrap my brain around them.
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Like seriously season one should at least be on the list. How can "Veronica Mars" even be in the top 10 when you leave it out. Also "24" should be higher.
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Jan 03, 2010 10:30:44 PM CST
fridays General Grivous episodes of Clone Wars
by beyondthunderdome2girls1cupbillcosby
were near perfect
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Your observations on the British Office are making me upset now. The Dance-off was upsetting and unnerving, it showed how much Brent was coming apart. He was on the edge of a nervous collapse. Getting fired in the costume didn't take that long either, he got fired and then stood up and said, "now I have to go and give laughter." He still believed he was funny. The show was sad, and poignant, and funny. US office is only silly at best. Protracted and contrived at worst.
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Haven't seen that one yet but Cone Wars is seriously awesome and only getting better.
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because all of the ideas are redundant rehashes from the godawful prequel trilogy. People who like this LITERALLY will enjoy ANYTHING.
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There I said it. No talkback for Gervais hosting the Golden Globes, or the Nominees is proof.
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I hate the prequels! I promise you Clone Wars is much better. Things just "work" for some reason. Much better allusions to the OT. WAY better than the prequels. Please check out a few eps if you haven't.
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You can find the Golden Globe nominees (and many more) here:
http://bit.ly/63voPP -
Interesting. Why the hate?
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can I call you a cafe patron? because you just got served...
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I think your weekly previews of "Fringe" and "24" are the best things of the website I dont understand how "Prison Break" of all seasons could be left off the list. Sure maybe season two was week but the first season was just as great as any "24."
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And add my name to the list of those demanding love and/or respect for Deadwood, Sons of Anarchy, and Dexter. Oh, and the live version of The Tick really wasn't all that funny, especially compared to the animated version. (Although it is hard to argue with the lusciousness of Liz Vassey.)
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One of the most gob-smacking bits if television i've ever seen.
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Seriously, that show was god awful and didn't deserve the 2 seasons it got. Even if you want to suck Weaton's dick why not put Firefly. But seriously the Shield had better ratings and better quality than Dollhouse. Not to mention it lasted over 7 years!
Also where the fuck is Curb Your Enthusiams. That show have been on for about 10 years now, and is the funniest thing since Seinfeld. It's Always sunny as well? 24 was great for like 3 seasons and most of that was just because of 9/11 which I'm sure News Corp/Fox had something to do with.
I'm sorry but the biggest fumble on this list is Dollhouse. I mean seriouesly? WTF. -
Do you not think it is meant to be like that? The whole point of sequences like the ones you mentioned is that they are excruciating to watch!
I suspect it is just too good for you, someone who puts Dollhouse in the top 10 of the year and misses Dexter and Californication, stick to the smaltzy and predictable US version of The Office, it is obviously more to your tastles taste! -
BB S2 is still well worth watching. The scene with the dress they're talking about isn't a huge spoiler or anything.
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At Dollhouse being on this list. It's a bad show, Herc. It's a miss all the way. My love of Joss Whedon has compelled me to watch every episode. And I'll watch it until the end. It's got some neat things. Here and there, a sharp line of dialogue, an interesting turn of phrase. Occasionally the weird undercurrents of this show's black-heart peak out. But overall, it's a mess. Whatever the reason.... Whedon uninvolved, interference from Fox, writers not on the same page as the rest of the team.... I don't know. And it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, the show is still a blistering borefest of a mess. It doesn't hold up against any of the other examples of shows that have tried to do television as long-form art. You look at the list of shows that have adopted the storytelling structures of Wiseguy and Twin Peaks, go all the way back to Babylon 5, Buffy, start from there. Name one. Name any show that has done these season-long plots of over-arcing stories. Dollhouse is the worst one. It's not... it's not even good, that's what kills me. It doesn't even pass to the point where I'd call it even a little bit good. There are good things about it, but it's not a good show. It's just not. .... Eh. Meh. Feh.
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i'm a fan of joss whedon's work. but no matter how much ypu polish a turd it is still in fact shit. and for me dollhouse was a turd. and angel was better than buffy.
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But, seriously, Herc, any list that doesn't contain Dexter can't be taken seriously.
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Damn right Angel was better than Buffy!!!
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Lost S1 > Angel S5 = FACT
Dollhouse > Dexter = FALSE
Dollhouse > The Shield = FALSE
All of the above statements are true. -
Jan 04, 2010 8:31:29 AM CST
These lists are invalidated with the omission of Deadwood.
by iamthethirdrevelation
Sorry, you're wrong.
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Jan 04, 2010 8:43:36 AM CST
Herc, did you fucking somehow miss ever watching Deadwood?
by catothecensor
It is far and away the greatest masterpiece in television history. Sure, some may quibble with my superlatives, but nobody with a brain could not have it at least in the Top 10 all time.
Herc, the world demands an explanation for your retardation!!! It's fine to not have it, I guess, since quality is subjective, yadda yadda, but you need to explain why you aren't the wrongest person that ever lived. BOOO! -
1)Deadwood
2)The Wire
3)The Sopranos
4)Lost
5)Mad Men
6)Rome
7)Dexter
8)Battle Star Galactica
9)Big Love
10)Carnivale
The. End. No network crap can really compete with the Golden Age of HBO in the early aughts. -
Yeah, it has to be echoed. Dollhouse but no Dexter??? That's crazy. And I'm something of a Whedon fanboy. Also, while I love Big Love, I've never met anyone who thought it was better than Deadwood or Carnivale. Personally, I'd like to see Farscape and Pushing Daisies up there as well. BSG simply doesn't hold a candle to Farscape.
Breaking Bad was new for me this year, and easily became my favorite new show. The Wire and Supernatural are both overrated, but nevertheless excellent shows (well, supernatural took a few seasons for me to really get into it [still haven't seen S5], the wire might as well be a documentary). I'm rewatching S1 of the Wire right now, in fact.
Herc has always been out of sync with the visitors here. I'd like to see a poll (only for existing accounts) of people's favorite shows (of 2009 and the decade). Whatever happened to web 2.0? Who cares about the opinion of one dude? Give us a poll herc! And include all the shows people have mentioned here. -
That's a toughie. I'm game.Westly's "Lie to me" request to Not-Fred.Criton's insane wormhole weapon, and the reaction of all interested partiesWillow's orgasmic changing of the Slayer rulesGalactica vs Pegsus's vipers instant formation, after perciveing Bucky as a Cylon threat.Niska handing over Mal's ear as changeFinding out that House is the third "remove the leg" storyThe Carver going after Christian instead of Shawn.Nancy ordering a gift basket for Silas, on her way to her probable murder.Boone dies while Arron is born.Dexter finding his infant son, sitting in a pool of blood.Claire's deathforward-filled drive East...Sorry, can't choose.
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He's not good in anything he does not even his stand up. I only just started watching the odd episode of the USA office which is funny. The UK one on the other had is tottaly shit, really i don't understand why everyone hold it in such high regard it really a poor show.
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What an amazing ending to Six Feet Under, think this was the scene of the decade
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"I recently caught Casino Night, in which Jim suddenly revealed to (the engaged to Roy) Pam that he was in love with her, and the interplay was mesmerizing." Was it really mesmerizing, dude? I'm glad you are so freely in touch with your feminine side. (That's a good thing, really!) I like both Offices, but Gervais is pure genius as David, whereas Carrell's Michael is simply great. Also, to all you Gervais haters who love the US Office: there wouldn't be a farking US The Office without Gervais. So, suck it!!!
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This is one of the reasons why Lost has very little re-watch value for me. But, that said I would rank one of the best tv experiences of all time. To me it's more of an experience than comfort food you like to return to time and again.
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Jan 04, 2010 10:20:25 AM CST
#1 Dramatic Scene of the Decade belongs to "The Constant"
by turketron_2
The scene from the season 4 (and arguably best EVER) episode of LOST, "The Constant" in which Desmond makes that phone call to Penny Widmore aboard the freighter, thereby curing his concsciousness-time-jumping sickness. That scene was fucking AMAZING, I shit you not. Hell that episode might be #1 for my favorite hourlong of anything last decade.
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How can you leave off the most improved show in 2009, "Sons of Anarchy". "Sons of Anarchy" went from good show but I'll get caught up when I can on DVR to appointment viewing. The entire twelve episode run was fantastic, rivalling some of "Soprano's" finest seasons. It was actually much better than "Mad Men" this year. Great acting, great writing, and Katey Sagal in her finest performance to date. She should have been nominated for a "Golden Globe" for her phenomenal work this year.
"Sons" was more deserving of recognition than at least 1/3 of your choices. ("Fringe" - hit or miss, "Dollhouse" - not even in the same stratosphere as "Sons", "24" great this year but not top 10, and "Mad Men" WAAAY too much of the acting challenged January Jones - who is just godawful - and more of its 12 episodes were less than great than "Sons of Anarchy"'s 12.) -
#10 True Blood
#9 Battlestar Galactica
#8 24
#7 Firefly
#6 Supernatural
#5 The Shield
#4 Dexter
#3 Angel
#2 The Wire
#1 LOST
Now, these aren't necessarily in order of "technical quality" but in order of MY enjoyment of the shows. I realize that The Wire is probably an altogether "better" show than Lost, but in order of "favorites" Lost tops it, for me.
Other shows that are probably glaring omissions for many of you are simply shows that I haven't sat down to watch yet, but I really need to: Mad Men, Carnivale, Deadwood, Rome, Sopranos (though Sopranos is not at the top of my list by any means, I've just never been interested for some reason!), Farscape (saw the last season or 2 and Peacekeeper Wars, but not the first few seasons... need to do a rewatch from the beginning!), Breaking Bad.
Other hourlong shows that I have watched in their entirety that didn't make the list, but I sort of enjoyed on some level and deserve a mention: Nip/Tuck, Terminator: TSCC, Buffy, Heroes, Prison Break, Stargate (SG1, Atlantis, Universe), The 4400, Flash Forward, Fringe, and Blade: The Series. Whew... -
Great scene, brought Lost right back in the frame for me - up there in the Decade's Pantheon with Omar/Mouzone, Bunk/McNulty "fuck" crime scene, acid bathtub in Jesse's house, the boy's funeral in Deadwood, Pauly and Chris in the Pine Barrens...er, excuse me while I spend months on youtube...
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As another show that I need to sit down and watch that isn't on my list.
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of the decade. It might be amongst the best ever. How Henry Ian Cusick didn't manage to springboard that showcasing of his talent into a bigger career I don't know. He should fire his agent.
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I can't believe only one other person mentioned this show on this TB.
Best hourlies of the decade, in no particular order: House, Firefly, BSG, West Wing, Tudors, True Blood, Lost (earlier seasons, I stopped watching around season 4), Supernatural, Pushing Daisies - it is worth it to note that I do not have HBO or Showtime, and I have had to Netflix or iTunes those shows *sad face* They are 100% worth it, though.
Also, looking back at the "bests" of previous years, for as much as we complain about the decline of TV, I have to say that the stuff I have on my list now is better than what my list would have consisted of five or ten years ago. -
Ugh. I'm watching it now, about half-way through the first season. Does it get better? I hope so. Because right now, the plot is SLOOOOW, the acting horrible, the characters wooden.
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Forgot about Jericho... add that to my list.
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Michael Scott is annoying. And of course, I am talking about the character from the show The Office (US version). I have to be careful, since my boss's name is actually, no joke, Michael Scott.
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I can't remember much about the quality of the show during the first half of the 1st season vs the rest of the show, but I remember enjoying the show on a certain level. The episode in a later season titled "The Marked" was quite awesome though. Now that I think about it, yes, the show DOES get a lot better in subsequent seasons. A lot of the acting (especially from Kyle) never really improves though. I think all in all it was a much more consistently "good" show over its run than what Heroes ended up being, despite having a much smaller budget (to my knowledge). The main thing that sucks to me is that the show never got a satisfying conclusion.
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#12 Family Guy
#11 Aqua Teen Hunger Force
#10 Sealab 2021
#9 Robot Chicken
#8 Wonder Showzen
#7 Jackass
#6 Human Giant
#5 Eastbound and Down
#4 South Park
#3 The Venture Bros.
#2 The Boondocks
#1 Chappelle Show
Lots of animated shows on here, for sure, but it's rare that a night ends with my TV not tuned to Cartoon Network's Adult Swim. The Daily Show and The Colbert Report should also be on this list somewhere, but I didn't watch them as absolutely consistently as the others listed. There's no Office, 30 Rock, or any of those new NBC Thursday night shows on my list either because I haven't taken the time to immerse myself in those shows, but the few episodes I have seen of Office(US) and 30 Rock, I did enjoy. I realize I also need to fucks with It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia... I've heard good things about it. -
Thanks :) I was thinking of giving up, but I'll trudge on and hope it gets better. Lack of conclusion would normally deter me, but then again, if I kept that attitutde, I would have missed out on Firefly, possibly my favorite show EVER.
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Jan 04, 2010 12:02:19 PM CST
Favorite Reality Shows (yes, I feel dirty for typing that)
by turketron_2
Most of these aren't your typical reality show, the more "traditional" ones, I just can't fucking tolerate... Watched a lot of The Real World and some Road Rules back when I was a teen in the mid to late 90's, but I can't say I ever saw one from beginning to end... whatever. Here's my list in no particular order:
Man vs. Wild
Man vs. Food
To Catch a Predator
Rob and Big
and...
and...
Fuck, this is all I could come up with! Reality TV really is shit of the most absolute magnitude. Though, without it we wouldn't have The Soup, which is pretty great and the only good thing that comes from E!. -
One cool thing about the 4400 is the evolution of Jordan Collier's character. I'd like to see the guy who plays him in more stuff.
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...I kinda hate the fact they make Survivor the first reality show when Real World is well into their 20th season (and finally its in DC but it has the worst cast ever)...go DC!
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Sometimes I hate how this site loves to blow Whedon.
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All nice choices, but there was no better written show this decade than Deadwood. Dexter needs to be here as well. I'd also add a couple of british shows SPOOKS and HUSTLE. If you haven't watched HUSTLE you're missing out.
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..ever!! Me and the Missus had a shitload of giggles when the host chris hansen would walk into the same room where the unsuspecting pedophiles are; "Hi i'm Chris from Dateline.." The few minutes, the assholes are ambushed by the police.Shit never gets old. XD
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Not cool Herc, not cool at all. That show was appointment television. I also have love for Insomniac with Dave Attell. Shit, I'd love to own all the episodes of that show but sadly there are only a couple of "Best of Insomniac Uncensored" that exist.
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Glad you share the love Stalkeye. Me and my roommate would be glued to the set watching that shit. So much good shit... the reading of the transcripts of the chats... the one liners that Chris would say when walking up on them, the batshit insane things that some of the sickos would do (remember the one guy that was standing there naked when Hansen walked in!?), and of course, the ambush. It was amazing how many people they would end up catching in the one location they'd set up in. Hopefully they're filming more as we type.
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I wasn't that upset really, but thanks for clearing that up all the same. I'm anxiously awaiting the release of BB S2 and Weeds S5. I think Bryan Cranston is a revelation in the role of Walter White. I've enjoyed every second of that show. It's truly been an amazing decade for TV. And I hate TV.
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Jan 04, 2010 1:46:03 PM CST
Actually...Insomniac with Dave Attell = great Reality Show!
by turketron_2
I'd say that it's a genre that the show could easily fit into. Ran from 2001 - 2005.
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LOST - The ending of "Walkabout"
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The best show on US telly isn't included.? And no Simpsons either.? Herc, your list is shite. Buffy the Vampire Slayer as your #1 choice for the beginning of the Noughties speaks volumes about your (lack of) taste.
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The best comedic sketch series in over a decade.I still Laugh My Mother Fucking Ass Off when i watch those skits; from the racial draft to the wac arnolds segment. Dave lost his mine and left the show, but atleast he did it while on top of his game. Herc gets no points for ommiting the funniest show of the decade.
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Yeah Turk, that naked guy was a fucked up headcase among the other sicko pedos. He wanted to do something to a Cat's Anus.As a previous owner of a Cat, I could kick his ass for that alone.I think the series has been indefinately placed on hold due to some legal BS issues. i.e. "entrapment". it was fun while it lasted.
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The best show on US telly isn't included.? And no Simpsons either.? Herc, your list is shite. Buffy the Vampire Slayer as your #1 choice for the beginning of the Noughties speaks volumes about your (lack of) taste.
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It's somewhat amazing that House isn't on any of these lists.
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is summed up in his thinking that the characters in Dexter are too broad, boring and obvious, and then thinking the characters in the American Office are better than in the UK Office.
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OUT OF THE RUINS
OUT FROM THE WRECKAGE
CAN`T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE THIS TIME
WE ARE THE CHILDREN
THE LAST GENERATION
WE ARE THE ONES THEY LEFT BEHIND
AND I WONDER WHEN WE ARE EVER GONNA CHANGE
LIVING UNDER THE FEAR, TILL NOTHING ELSE REMAINS
WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME
LOOKING FOR SOMETHING
WE CAN RELY ON
THERE`S GOTTA BE SOMETHING BETTER OUT THERE
LOVE AND COMPASSION
THEIR DAY IS COMING
ALL ELSE ARE CASTLES BUILT IN THE AIR
AND I WONDER WHEN WE ARE EVER GONNA CHANGE
LIVING UNDER THE FEAR TILL NOTHING ELSE REMAINS
ALL THE CHILDREN SAY
WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME
SO WHAT DO WE DO WITH OUR LIFES
WE LEAVE ONLY A MARK
WILL OUR STORY SHINE LIKE A LIGHT
OR END IN THE DARK
GIVE IT ALL OR NOTHING
WE DON`T NEED ANOTHER HERO
WE DON`T NEED TO KNOW THE WAY HOME
ALL WE WANT IS LIFE BEYOND
THUNDERDOME
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good to see this not forgotten. whenever they had the regular guests on the show, pat o'neal, nick dipalo, greg giraldo, another black guy, and some other guy, and quinn it was magical.
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The only thing there is to offer is a DVD of a 4 part mini series from HBO called "the corner"..This is done by many folks responsible for The Wire and has many of the actors that were in that fine series..Warning ahead this is one of the harshest depictions of drug use I've ever seen and will litteraly make your skin crawl..The drug denizens are all noteworthy for their performances...This is based on the street corner that Charles (Rock) Dutton grew up around and at the series end you get to meet the real people that this series is based on and see what happened to them..Now don't get me wrong this in no way is as great a series as The Wire but I'll be damned if it didn't actually help wean me off of that powerful shit known as THE WIRE...Warning again this depicts the most vile drug use I have ever seen..
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And for what its worth I agree with Herc about Dexter. I stuck with it until the end of season 2 (with that shitty lilah kills doakes plot) but gave up in season 3. Its just not on a par with other Showtime/HBO style shows like Breaking Bad or True Blood or the masterpiece that is The Wire.
And Dollhouse, when it works, is the BEST Whedon show there is. Unfortunately it never really found its feet. Much better than Buffy though, and as good as s5 of Angel. -
that show really was fucking great
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it does not hold up very well. Angst died with the 90s or it should have. The formula for that show was kill someone, make another gay, and bring on Deus ex Machina. How does Buffy become a guidance counselor at a high school without a college degree? Just wondering. Plus, I can't stand "hip" dialogue. It basically dates the material.
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that line where someone says, "we saved the world, we changed the world" sounded like something from Special Olympics.
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that line where someone says, "we saved the world, we changed the world" sounded like something from Special Olympics.
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And this has to be one of the worst best of lists I have ever seen. Not only is the list itself atrocious, but the way the whole thing is organized is equally bad. I can't believe Herc actually gets paid for this.
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season 6 of Buffy wins my "Most Heavy-Handed Metaphor of the Decade" award. The final season was a return to form. In order S3>S2>S7>S5>S4>S6>S1
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FAIL! And BBC Office was brilliant even when it wasnt funny. NBC Office funny, but thats about it.
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Rome was rather good too.
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Jan 04, 2010 6:29:53 PM CST
You got a lot of fuckin' nerve leavin' Deadwood off that list.
by al swearengen
If'n I remember, the last cocksucker who overlooked the right fuckin' inclusion of Deadwood on their list o' greats, found themselves starin' at the muddy gullet of one of Wu's pigs.
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...you wrote this... "The formula for that show was kill someone, make another gay, and bring on Deus ex Machina." Here's the thing about a formula. It has to be repeated. So can you give me a list of the times a regular was killed, followed by another character becoming gay? I won't even ask for the Deus Ex Machina finale. Let's see, there were seven seasons of Buffy, each with a season long arc. Let's say if we can find four repetitions of the pattern you've mentioned we'll accept it as the formula of the show. Aw heck, I'm feeling charitable, just give me three. Three out of seven seasons would at least give you some right to claim it as a formula. And I'm glad you've tried rewatching it again lately, as you've posted above, because I'm sure that's refreshed your memory. Should make it easy to give me the examples that would establish the formula you've claimed. Thanks. Bye.
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Buffy dies: twice, Willow: becomes gay, Mom: dies, One of those annoying geek fucks: rumored gay, Willow gets a new girlfriend, Xander's demon girl: dead. Now, the order isn't a formula but it's throughout the series. He kills people, plays with sexuality, and Deus Ex Machina explains everything. What brought Buffy back after season 1? Who was holding Spike's soul? By the way, how did he come back? Maybe not a pattern, but Whedon is predictable.
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Who can claim that "We saved the world, we changed the world" isn't laughable? I'm sure I misquoted it, but the wording was there. Most think Whedon's piss tastes like sweet tea, and give him a free pass, but every other writer gets the sword for any problems. What makes this guy so special? I get it, people like him. That is perfectly cool, but what has he done that is so groundbreaking?
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Not much, just the first season, plus a little bit here and there. But really, most every black person I've seen on the show is smart, or cool and clever, or gangsta, or streetwise, stuff like that. I can't get intoa show that shows me the projects but no dumb people in them. I'm not saying there aren't any dumb black characters on the show, just that I don't think I saw one in any of the episodes I've seen. Now how can you call that realistic?
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Jan 04, 2010 7:19:01 PM CST
Deus ex machina is Buffy being a guidance counselor with no degr
by josstossesthesalad
I can forgive a lot, but that one is messed up and lazy writing.
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I loved the first season and now it's unwatchable.
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Whedon is overrated and pulls the same tricks.
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Wow. How soon we forget how awesome that was.Granted, this is Herc's list. And that little girl doesn't know what is decent. Despite that, I would prefer to see Osbournes ranked somewhere in the top 5 on her list. There a very few titles she has scored higher that I would want to waste time with instead.No Carnivale, Supernatural, Millenium, or Huff. Not even as honorable mentions. Wow.
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where is it?
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And half these shows, including Mad Men, wouldn't be around without The Shield. Best crime show ever.
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Jan 04, 2010 8:54:32 PM CST
I like Supernatural because it's simple in a good way
by josstossesthesalad
It reminds me of the shows of my youth. You're able to watch one and get an ending that wraps that hour up. Easy to understand and easy to get into. Wish it was on a better network though.
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You seem to equate hot chicks with a show being "manly". I don't care how hot the chicks are, if all they do is sit around and prattle and act like self-absorbed douchebag teens, I'd much rather watch something more mature in its charcters and writing, like The Sopranos. I can see a thousand chicks hotter than Lauren Graham on spankwire and unlike lobotmizing myself by sitting through an episode of Gimore Girls, they won't bore me to death with endless prattle becuase they will be too busy sucking.
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I don't know what's worse, the fact that Herc left Always Sunny off the list, or the fact that no one's mentioned it yet. Chapelle's and Deadwood are unforgivable omissions as well, the only thing that sucked about those shows is that they ended prematurely. And if you're gonna include Lucy, Daughter of the Devil you gotta include the other 15 min Adult Swim classics, Aqua Teen, Sealab, and the best of the best: Frisky Dingo! When Killface calls his fat, gay son "Snacky Onassis"...I'm still laughing. I'll also join the chorus regarding the Wire, its the best show I've ever seen.
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I love Frisky Dingo! I still repeat the sage advice: "Voters want cold beer hot pussy and a place to take a shit with a door on it...you don't want the dog looking at you!" That was a great show. Venture Brothers is another favorite. Does anyone know if Korgoth of Barbaria was picked up for a full show?
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...so, in short, no formula, you don't understand that Deus Ex Machina refers to a rather specific plot device as opposed to just anything that seems somehow improbable, and you elegantly describe how in Buffy, as so many other shows, over the course of seasons a number of things happened. By the way, CPR brought Buffy back at the end of season one. Do you protest CPR classes? I guess either you consider resuscitation a cheat; "fine, Aunt Martha's alive but it was lousy Deus Ex Machina that kept her that way. Stupid Heimlich manuever" or you just didn't know, which means you really haven't watched enough of the show to have any clue at all about what you're writing. Still, I like to be positive and you did a really fine job of indicating that more than one character died over the course of a seven season supernatural action show. Point proven, sir, and congratulations on your purity of purpose in believing such shows should only be allowed one death without rightfully being accused of resorting to the same deathy gimmick.
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...then why did you have the need to tie your preference to your "a pubes"? That's what I was curious about.
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Was Awful!! Bad supernatural soap opera no better than Twilight, only difference is the gratuitous sex scenes.
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Jan 04, 2010 11:30:05 PM CST
Buffy was a guidance counselor, no degree explain?
by josstossesthesalad
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..between the brothers. Real brothers don't share their emotions like that, no more than they would with their buddies. This is especially true in the case of Dean, totally out of character. Other than this I like the plotlines and each season is an improvment on the last, raising the stakes (but perhaps the brothers have died and been ressurected one two many times.) One of the more entertaining shows on T.V right now, spiritual successer to The X-Files, Buffy, and Angel.
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enlighten me?
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The scenes that Herc pointed out as examples of why he didn't like it as much as the Americain Office are some of the best scenes in the show. The pacing isn't bad it just isn't typical sitcom pacing, it's true to the pacing of a documentry series, the feeling of which he is supposed to be replicating. And the fact we didn't hear that question that Dawn said no to was a stroke of GENIUS!! It's up to us to use our imagination. Martin Freeman ripping off his microphone, when she hugs him, fooling the viewer into believing she said yes, until he puts back on his mike and says "She said no by the way!.", it's so human, it's so what would happen in real life! The scene that mirrors this in the Amercain Office feels so Scripted!! That's why the British Office is better, it's feels real, it set out to feel like real life. The Amercain Office tries too hard. The Christmas Specials are some of the best television you will ever see. Herc, I disagree whole bloody heartedly on this one. (And I'm not British or Americain, and in general, I much prefer Amercain comedy to British, the exceptions being The Office, some of Extras, Fawlty Towers, Monty Python, early Only Fools And Horses.)
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Jan 05, 2010 12:39:03 AM CST
worldofwarcraft ...really now ..there is plenty of fools to see.
by mr dark
This show is about being smart both the cops and the criminals, looking for stupid it was everywhere the addicts were..The dealers had their share of stupid moves too..If you aren't just trolling I highly recommend re- watching the entire series to get the full effect of what the hell everyone else sees that you don't.
But maybe this really isn't your cup of tea and for that I am sorry. You may thank me later if you do re-watch..by the way the entire series really is special and the acting is superb all the way through...seasons 3 and 5 knocked it out of the park..
Hamsterdamn that was the shit... -
...The unheard dialogue Bill Murray whispers into Scarletts ear in Lost I Translation
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from season 3, in a one of Buffy's prophetic dreams. Principal Wood gave Buffy a cushy job - that was acknowledged as "strange" on the show - to keep her close because he knew she was a slayer, just like his mother was. Buffy accepted it for 1) money & 2) to keep an eye on a suspicious Wood, who had no real history & whose office was above the Hellmouth.
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I will be nice, honest. I can be too hard on the Whedon hence the name, but I promise it's all in fun. I don't fault the guy or his fans. I guess I just have nerd rage over how he gets a pass. I'm a bit old school, even for my 30 years. By the way, I know what a Deus Ex Machina is and how it is used. The classic example would be Athena basically saying to Odysseus and the angry families of the suitors, "it's all over". I just want to stress that no one is perfect in the ways of genre fiction. I love George Lucas more than a heterosexual man should, but he has tons of faults. However, I get nerd defensive and I should show more respect to the Whedonites. That hurts a bit hehe. Seriously, are his shows the best for every year they are on television? I loved Freakazoid but it isn't great television. It's hard to put being a fan apart from what is great, but what do I know. Television did reach perfection with Herman's Head though....dig it!
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...please read the following... "A deus ex machina [1] literally, in Latin, "god from the machine") is a plot device in which a person, group, or thing appears suddenly, and at the exactly appropriate moment, in order to conveniently and unexpectedly help a character overcome a previously believed insolvable difficulty. Alternatively a person or object may have a property not revealed before. It is generally considered to be a poor storytelling technique if used improperly. However it is popular in fairy tale and science fiction" Therefore, of course, neither Dawn, who appeared as the catalyst for the events in season five, or the job as counselor, which was certainly a stupid bit and served (in the rather half-hearted way nearly everything was working in the show at that point) as a reason to have Buffy involved in the problems of other characters, would in any way shape or form be considered Deus Ex Machinas. See, now you're getting to learn things, so this is both fun and educational.
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does it count? cuz i would put it in the top 10 of comedies
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By the way, why the animosity Red Ned?
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By the way, why the animosity Red Ned?
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Some demon gives him his soul back after he proves himself. Ok, fair enough reason, but here is the problem. Where did said demon receive the soul from? Does he have a bearing on the character or the story from any other plot point or time line? No, he comes out of the blue.
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Jan 05, 2010 1:43:43 AM CST
See also the finale of the new season of Doctor Who
by josstossesthesalad
That thing is full of out of the blue shit.
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It isn't as good as it used to be, but that show works like the ocean. You get high tides and low tides. This weeks was pretty good with the Mitch Albion cameo.
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I know you are just stirring things. I found these references about Dawn : In season 3, Buffy's dream, Faith says, "Oh yeah. - Miles to go - Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7-3-0." 730 is the number of days in 2 years, which equals to Dawn's appearance in S5. A crazy man refers to Dawn as "curds & whey" in S5 to back up the reference.
In the fourth-season episode "This Year's Girl," Buffy and Faith are making a bed in Faith's dream, and they comment on preparing for the arrival of 'little sister'. In the S4 finale 'Restless', in Buffy's dream opening with a shot of an alarm clock set at 7:30, Tara tells Buffy to be back "before dawn."
These things are small & easy to overlook but it's little things like this scattered throughout the series that makes it wonderful to watch. Like in the S7 ep "Selfless" I mentioned way above, they *finally* got around to Xander lying to Buffy about 'Willow said, kick Angel's ass' but because it was in the middle of such an emotional scene between the three of them, the acknowlegement was there & gone before you could blink. Or the tragic fate of Miss Kitty Fantastico - blink and you'll miss it.
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Jan 05, 2010 2:05:51 AM CST
See much more helpful than the wikipedia paste that Red left..
by josstossesthesalad
Thanks Buffywrestling! Seriously, that shows a good eye. One thing I liked about the show was the Initiative. I thought an underground military force fighting the supernatural was a good idea. Plus, scientists messing with the occult with Adam was a nice touch. I appreciate the comment!
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Here is another example. Mr. Whedon's scifi Western, Firefly has a character that is random, does anything be it good or just weird at the drop of a hat, with no rhyme or reason. Sounds like our Latin friend is coming back to play. Now, she was tortured, beaten, or whatever, but the character fills a multitude of roles for many reasons. She is a Deus Ex Machina. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. For example, Jack Burton from Big Trouble in Little China gets divine help in many forms. One could say that even the Pork Chop Express is a Machina. Well it is a machine. Anyway, the use of a Deus Ex Machina isn't necessarily a negative trait. Sorry I made fun of your idol Whedon Red Ned. Still that wikipedia comment was really cheap.
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mr dark: you're tryin to explain The Wire to someone with the screen name worldofwarcraft. I agree with your statements, but why bother? Josstosses: I gotta question why you watch so much Buffy and other Whedon if you don't like it? Red ned: Don't try to deny that Buffy or any other Whedon creation employs Deus ex machina, macguffins, cliffhangers, or any other plot device you can name. THEY ALL DO! That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it. They're all fictional dramas. We just debate about whether it was more clever or more shocking, or well-acted, well-directed, or well-written than another show. This is also why Deadwood and the Wire are so compelling. Especially when you consider the Wire vs. the Shield. I love the Shield, the directing, writing and acting were first rate (Glenn Close, Anthony Anderson and Forrest Whitaker as guest stars!?! thats fuckin impressive), and the theme was great as well. But after you watch the Wire, you see how much the Shield looks like a TV show, how much it has to abide by typical conventions. Whereas every single scene in the Wire is entirely believable (excepting, of course, the inherent idea that there are some cops out there who give a shit enough to risk their jobs to "buck the system" and try to actually investigate and apprehend high level drug dealers, as opposed to following the status quo). [SPOILERS!!!! galore ahead, if you haven't seen, DO NOT READ, GO WATCH!!] Even the shit Lester and McNulty pull in Season 5 with the fake serial killer, or Bunny Colvin's Hamsterdam in Season 3, are plausible. In Season 5, they're the two smartest cops in BPD (aside from Bunk and Kima, who at least agree to keep quiet, for as long as possible), they know no else gives a shit, and they control the investigation. Of course, because its realistic, even they can't control all the variables, so eventually they get burned. But at least they tried to do what's right. Bunny's Hamsterdam was certainly the least realistic, or most frightening, or both. But given that even McNulty and the rest of the MCU didn't catch on for a few weeks, and the rest of the administration (as well as the "outside world") was only in the dark for another few weeks, I'd say it was at least possible, if not probable. More importantly, it was true to the entire theme of the show, which is the institutional nature of the drug trade, and the inability of our government to even attempt to control it, much less curtail it, to the point where it has effectively destroyed the ultimate functionality of our local political and police agencies in what are supposed to be our greatest urban centers. Its all good tho, I'm goin to see Chemical Toilet at Paddy's Pub tonight, and if I wanna get some blow, I know a guy around there. "Dayman! aah,h,Aahhhhh! Fighter of the Nightman! aah,h,Aahhhh! Champion of the Sun! aah,h,Ahhhhh! You're a master of karate and friendship for everyone! Dayman!!"
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I enjoy the Tudors as ridiculous over the top entertainment with hot naked women, but it's a stretch to call it a show of great quality. And I'm an Early Modernist! After More and Wolsey died, the show lost a lot, though Cromwell was a nice right bastard.
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of Firefly/Serenity, but it is laughable listing it and not Farscape, as Joss nicked quite a bit from it for Firefly/Serenity.
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Or admit you have ZERO credibility. Actually, you are in a now win situation. Either admit your forgot Deadwood or explain that, yes, you really do think it is not one of the ten best shows of the decade. Either way you look like a stupid moron. booo!
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season of Angel was enthralling. It should've had one more.
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show of the decade.
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Obviously the guy watches a shit ton of television so how can we hold him accountable for his tastes? Besides, each one of us knows that our personal preferences for tv shows or movies are infinitely superior to the choices of others, in particular my choices are not only better than all of yours, they're right by golly.
Lists=subjective=deal with it. -
..actually I wasn't trying to deny that Buffy used that device. I'm no Whedon acolyte, as my posts just in this thread would tend to prove. I was pointing to, in the first case an inaccurate "formula" posited by JossTosses and in the second case two specific examples of Deus Ex Machina which in no way fulfilled the requirements for that device. In short, I was goofing on Joss because he clearly likes banging on folks like Herc, for whom the show has some special meaning.
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...no animosity at all. It's not like you were offering a real critique of the show. You were taking potshots at people who like it, and that's message board cool, I guess. I just gave you a little back. Don't worry, I don't think anyone will believe you're really opposed to the Heimlich Maneuver.
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..The Wire. I couldn't even make it to the 2nd episode so I just saw a few eps here and there. And by the way, the finale really did nothing for me. however it was funny how Omar bought it. so unexpected but that's life.The Shield is more grittier, violent and emotional than Wire. (Anyone who disagrees with me should check out the last episode; "Family Meeting". unforgettable shit it is.)The Wire is good for what it was, but it's certainly not the end all to be all. And brotherhood was underated due to too many unfair comparisions to the sopronos.
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"Stabby are you OK, are you OK,are you OK Stabby?" :P
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well explained. The Wire is about institutions, and how people either commit to one, or resist against them. I know it sounds elitist, and it is, but the Wire is just too smart for most people. It also requires a patience and commitment that many people simply do not have, and would prefer instead to watch Jack Bauer killing brown people or David Caruso taking off his sunglasses over and over.
Herc's list is messed up in places, especially considering how bad season 3 of Veronica Mars is, no way should that be in the top 10. -
sorry but you are wrong. After watching the Wire, the Sheild is just TV. Good TV, but not on the same level at all. The fates of Randy Wagstaff, Dukie, Bodie and D'Angelo Barksdale are far more emotive, harrowing and tragic than anything on the Sheild.
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Not classy. I'll live, though. The point I was trying to make was that for all the Wire love out there I always seem to see the parts of it that ring false or silly. To me at least. Just the other day I walked in on my cousin watching it (he's a huge fan of the show) and there's the top level drug guy in an economics class. That's such phony looking stuff. I just can't get on board with that. And I cannot stand that black cop woman, (I think she's always wearing a baseball cap?).
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Jan 05, 2010 10:58:20 AM CST
Well Goldberg.. to be honest,I really can't speak of comparisons
by stalkeye
as i have not watched the entire series. (Wire) it just didnt grab my attention to be a dedicated viewer. and i can get into smart crime dramas, but maybe someday i'll put aside some time to check out the rest and see what i have been missing all these years. same goes for dexter. (everyone has been begging me to check it out.)
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You summed up nicely the qualities of the Wire..Yes Hamsterdamn did seem improbable when watching but I do believe that it will in some way be the inevitable outcome if full legalization isn't accomplished..I am sure that many cities already have areas that are treated as such and police don't go through the hoops unless they have to..I think with Mexicos latest move to legalize all drugs we may see a move to that direction if it indeed stops the violence. So far not so much..
Here in Kali-fornia we have the cannibas shops all over and it is really no big deal..but I probably wouldn't enjoy seeing the crack store opening down the street from me. I really love the Sheild also but as you pointed out after watching the realism of the Wire the Sheild almost seems candy coated.. -
Did you ever see The Corner by the team that produced The Wire? I think you might like it..It is a 2 disc DVD with most of the Wire cast in very different roles..Think of Bunny as junkie..Its a good solid 4 part series that is unflinching in its realism of hard drug abuse..The junkie denizens will make your skin crawl...You also get to meet the real characters at the end of the series and get an update of how they are doing..pretty good stuff but no Wire..
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...warning about The Corner. There are moments in the show that are extremely painful to watch. And really, the other moments range from mildly to moderately painful, too.
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If your replies would've been even remotely informed, I never would've noticed your name. I'd recommend you return to video games, since you obviously have no clue what's going on in this world.
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...I know this will ring as that hackneyed advice people always give when you've watched a little of a show and not liked it... ...but... ...The Wire works very much like a novel. Watch the first five episodes of season one, and if you're not hooked then so be it, the show isn't for you. But I have never...never...got someone to watch the first five episodes of The Wire who wasn't then hooked. And if you want to say that a show should hook you at the first moment, the way Lost did with the plane crash, that's cool. To be fair The Wire did hook me right from the start, with the story of poor dead Snot Boogie. But if you invest that time I really do think you'll end up thanking yourself for doing it.
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Damn, just like what you like and get over it. Are you people really so sad to get panties wadded because Herc didn't validate your existence?
Okay, debate. good. FINE! But, lighten the fuck up. -
is brilliant, though nowhere near the direction (i.e. cinematography, editing and acting) of the Wire. Pretty sure that was David Simon and Ed Burn's side project after Homicide got canceled. Sort of a pilot for HBO producers. Gloriously raw, in the best and worst ways. A must see for Wire fans, as mentioned.
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Yeah guys for me The Wire was the dope and The Corner was the comedown..I was actually hooked on The Wire but for me it was actually a problem.. I didn't have HBO when it originally aired so I bought the entire 5 season run on DVD..Well lets just say I had a problem turning the damn thing off.
I burned through the first season in one night and almost couldn't keep my eyes open at work the next day. Needless to say the rest of my week was shot till I had finished the series...Then I went looking for more and found the Corner and that was all she wrote. -
Yeah guys for me The Wire was the dope and The Corner was the comedown..I was actually hooked on The Wire but for me it was actually a problem.. I didn't have HBO when it originally aired so I bought the entire 5 season run on DVD..Well lets just say I had a problem turning the damn thing off.
I burned through the first season in one night and almost couldn't keep my eyes open at work the next day. Needless to say the rest of my week was shot till I had finished the series...Then I went looking for more and found the Corner and that was all she wrote. -
...The Wire, too. I don't really like crime shows (and now I know The Corner wasn't really one, but it looked like one to me when I saw the ads for it) but The Wire's a crime show the same way All The King's Men was a political novel. And damn, Mr. Dark, you bought all five seasons in a batch? Please tell me it wasn't at those HBO initial release prices.
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Just letting you know that I'm watching the first episode of Treme and it is INCREDIBLE. It's like The Wire never left. Rejoice.
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The best TV shows of last decade were: 10. The Office. Hated the idea, loved Steve Carell, thought it would kill his career. The writers and the rest of the cast proved me wrong. The UK/US debate is for another thread, but both shows are fuckin funny. 9. Aqua Teen/Sealab/Squidbillies. Too many late night baked laughs to leave any of 'em out, might as well put 'em together. "I rule you" was just on last night...classic. 8. Sopranos. 7. Chappelle's Show. "Wait, I gotta go home and put some water in Buck Nasty's momma's dish." Fuck ya. 6. The Shield. No more sensationalized than Hill Street or NYPD Blue, it had a greater story arc (not to mention writing and acting), it is the best police procedural ever on network"ish" TV. 5. Futurama. Not only was it the best supernatural animated comedy on the air, it was also the best supernatural show, period; and the best animated show, period. Not to mention, the second best comedy. "Take that, causality!" 4. Six Feet Under. Let's just make a show about a family. That'll never work. What if they run a family-based mortuary and we kill the Dad in the first scene. Holy Shit, that'll never work!! 3. Deadwood. What if we make an honest, historical western about a silver boomtown in the 1880s? Sounds good. But there's almost no gunfights, and the only star gets shot in the back and killed in the 3rd episode? What the fuck!? Are you fucking kidding!? You're fucking fired!! 2. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. How bout a show featuring three loser friends that own a dive bar in Philly? Jesus Christ, didn't I just fire you!? It also features a female bartender, although they say she looks like Larry Bird. Fuck that shit, now I'm gonna kill you (pulls revolver from giant mahogany desk). But Danny DeVito wants to star and produce. (Returns revolver to desk) Fine, two seasons, max. 1. The Wire.
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for 2009, and the decade? Sure, he could simply make a list of all the shows he doesn't watch but people give him crap for ignoring just to fan the flames of infuriated fanboy fanaticism. However, I'd prefer to see a Worst Of list with stuff he actually watched (and more than one episode of).
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Yeah I bought em all at the same time..but I got them in Bangkok and at a very reduced price..I did pony up for the Box set on Amazon though when the price went down it was all five seasons for $57.00 u.s. a fine buy but it was just about a year ago that the price actually came down..
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5. The backing singer episode of Dollhouse. Probably was the press that made the nail that went in the coffin of Dollhouse. As the 3rd ever episode it just killed any momentum the openers had, and must have turned viewers off by the bucketload. You can be anyone in the world? Oooh lets make her the girl singing in the back behind a third rate Kelly Rowland!
4.The African soldier episode of Veronica Mars. All the standalones were sub-par, but this preachy little number was the worst. The subject was too big for the world of Neptune.
3. Beer Bad. The episode of Buffy where everyone learns that beer is wrong and you shouldn't drink. With added demons.
2. Woman King. The worst ep of BSG ever. Only good thing about it is it features Helo punching Tigh in the face. The rest is Bore Ring.
1. The episode of LOST where we learnt the earth-shattering secret of how Jack got his tatoos. Made more worthless subequently by the fact that none of the plots introduced were ever refered to again. -
Was pretty bad. But MOTHING tops The backing singer episode of Dollhouse. Probably the worst episode of anything ever. "Freedom, is all we need!"
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Calling my opinion uninformed? I've already said I've seen season 1 plus a couple eps here and there. Never liked any of it. If giving a show an entire season isn't giving it a chance then what is? Or are you just hating on me? What's the deal here?
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...but if you've seen the entire first season you've also seen plenty of black characters do incredibly stupid things and be incredibly stupid. Let's see, just E01S01... D'Angelo has killed someone in plain sight of multiple witnesses because he was too cowardly to fight him. The aforementioned Snot Boogie, dead before the show even begins, who every Friday night would try to steal the pot from the crap game, get caught and beaten up before finally being shot. Bunk taking the case when it wasn't his turn because of a misguided notion about the nature of the call. D'Angelo talking business in the car D'Angelo bragging to Avon Virtually everything Bodie, Poot and Wallace do. That's not even counting Bubbles, but maybe you think a junkie at the end of his rope is somehow cool. Regardless, what you said was just factually incorrect, which means either you didn't watch season one (even the first episode of it) very closely or you watched it with some sort of preconceptions that colored your subsequent opinions. The Wire was very colorblind in its jaundiced view of the world.
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If you watched the show in its entirety, you would have some context regarding that "top level guy" taking an economics class. I'm not trying to start an argument at all. Just saying you that if you really watch the show, I believe you will come to at least like it. From what I understand it's one of the most thoroughly researched, most realistic, and least contrived shows ever.
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Herc, where's our Treme talkback? I mean you give them to all these shows that are "on the air" but you can't find the time and space for a show that will debut in April and that I think I'll like more than a lot of your precious "currently being broadcast" shows. This is just typical.
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Agree with Herc on Big Love. I'm surprised that I found that show to be one of the best of the year. Definitely a reason to have HBO.
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I'm surprised that Herc didn't mention Conversations with Dead People. That episode imo is one of the top 10 Buffy episodes of all time. I also loved Lies My Parent Told Me. It's a good companion to the season 5 great, Fool For Love. S7 of Buffy had a shaky arc but many of the episodes were damn good. Some notable omissions from Herc's list are Farscape and Rome. Really Herc?
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Beer Bad. Certainly not the best Buffy episode, but I don't get the hate many have for it. On the other hand, I completely agree about that episode of Lost. I just rewatched it the other day (as I am in the midst of rewatching the entire series) and it really is the most pointless backstory in the series. Despite the ever-increasing backlash against the flashbacks, I still found them both entertaining and valid. Then "Stranger in a Strange Land" happened and I fully understood the other side of the argument. Fans clamoring about the meaning of Jack's tattoos? This is why you don't let fans dictate the direction or content of your show.
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What makes that episode of LOST even more annoying is the other storylines they introduce, like Juliet's branding, the Others Sheriff, and Cindy showing up, were never mentioned again either. I still have this faint glimmer of hope that the mark on Juliet's back will be referenced before the end of the series...but I'm not holding my breath
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Ok, I know it seems like in every thread that mentions lost I try to pimp the rewatch thread/column over on Chud, but the guy that's rewatching it picked up on the fact that the symbol branded into Juliet's back is very similar to symbols that pop up in other places on the show. Now, this may be purely coincidental and probably won't amount to shit, but I still thought it was cool.
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Thanks!
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and the trial simply part of Ben's subterfuge to make Jack trust Juliet. He felt bad for telling the Others she told him to kill Ben, and she put herself in hot water to help Kate & Sawyer get away. Branding her was one way to get Jack to feel sympathy for her, and even somewhat protective, for when she gets left behind by the Others.Cindy, and the kids, and presumably the rest of the captured Tailies, coming to see Jack in the cage, on their way to "see something" does need an answer.
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yer choice, worst show with a former stark trek cast member. worst show with a guy asking questions, worst show in the english language. shanter is a horrible interviewer
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