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Wake-Up Calls For Brett & Jaison?? Sunday Night Brought The Decade’s Final Three Hours Of CBS’ SURVIVOR!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
My predictions for the final five:
T-shirt designer BRETT CLOUSER, 23, is the last non-Foa, so he’ll be joining the jury as soon he fails to win an immunity competition. And he's due a stumble.
The only other cast member to transition to the jury tonight will be law student JAISON ROBINSON, 28, whom Russell Hantz will demonize as a traitor.
The jury will then vote on three finalists:
Oilman HANTZ, 36, the eldest of the finalists, told Mick Trimming he made $1.7 million last year, and Trimming’s been spreading that fact around.
TRIMMING, 33, is an anesthesiologist, and anesthesiologists bring home the coin as well. The jurors, I suspect, will come to learn this.
NATALIE WHITE, 26, is one of those hot girls hired to seduce doctors into prescribing her pharmaceutical company’s pharmaceuticals. These pharmaceutical girls, like bartenders, have become staples of reality show casts. They also make the bucks, but I haven’t seen Natalie bragging about her stash of cash. I pick her as tonight’s big winner.
Then we’ll get to see what these twentysomethings look like indoors:
Marisa Calihan, 26, student, Cincinnati, Ohio, voted off day 3.
Ashley Trainer, 22, spa seller, Maple Grove, Minn., voted off day 14.
Kelly Sharbaugh, 25, hairstylist, Los Angeles, voted off day 24.
Monica Padilla, 25, law student, San Diego, voted off day 33.
8 p.m. Sunday. CBS.
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super-cheap as Chrismukkah looms!!
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$10.99 BOOMTOWN!!
Loads of season sets grow
super-cheap as Chrismukkah looms!!
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I hope it's Russell. He's played an awesome game. Great season.
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Dec 20, 2009 5:49:50 AM CST
of your predicted final 3- all easily make tons of dough
by daniel_larussos_gonna_fight
My cousin is an anesthesioligst- makes about $230,000 here in Chicag0. My other buddy is in Pharm Sales- Makes $110,000 - then there's Russell....What happened to the guys who needed the money? Great job of casting CBS
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thats all i have to say.
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Has been a great player in this game.
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Tiger Woods has a hardon the size of a 3 iron just imagining the possibility's.
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Hope he wins. He's right though. All the people around him are stupid. They didn't start playing nearly as soon as he did (like minute 1.)
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Right. Like you don't see millionaires competing on TV in other competitions, like sports or dancing, or stupid cooking game shows or whatever.
So CBS should only cast deserving poor people for this game show? How entertaining that would be!!
But since a Survivor cast with average looking and average earning people would lose ratings and money, CBS should really just set up a charity and hand out the money to one deserving shmoe each year, and forget about trying to run a successful show!
Survivor isn't a documentary or a reality show that needs to strive to fairly measure people up against each other and their own survival skills. It's a game show cast with a mix of attractive people, smart people, type A competitors and flakes, and emotional train wrecks and assholes.
I will repeat what I have said before: Russell should win. Go Texas Lex Luthor!
Natalie should lose and be forced to turn to soft core porn. -
Dec 20, 2009 10:31:52 AM CST
We'll see if the leak was right about Russ and Jas winning.
by shermdawg
Wouldn't mind seeing Nat win though.
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Last episode where she gets all spiritual with Brett, her fellow "prayer warrior" which leads straight into a shot of her nearly naked talking about god. She'd teach the Jehovah's Witnesses a thing or two about successfully captivating an audience.
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But he likely won't because juries, generally, don't pick the mastermind. They pick the other guy because they are bitter people who hate the fact that someone out played them.
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1. Mick 2. Brett 3. Russell 4. Jaison 5. Natalie
Natalie rode everyone's coattails. There's no way she wins. If Brett gets to the end, he wins. If Mick gets to the end with anyone but Brett, he wins. It's a toss up between Russell and Jaison because of jury bitterness. -
Seriously good shit. Love it.
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Dec 20, 2009 1:24:45 PM CST
Herc: Will you be posting spoiler headlines next season too?
by flim springfield
I'd appreciate the head's up, so I know whether to avoid AICN or not.
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Shitty deal. Sources are saying cardiac arrest.
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some more shots of Hawkman, Dr Fate and Sandman and at one point Clark tears open his shirt and has the S on underneath.(black n white but still awesome)
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...is a good strategy if you can get away with it. And Natalie has. Especially if she's up against Russell, whom the jury is unlikely to reward for his game, which was fantastic and got me to watch Survivor again after... fifteen seasons? Something like that. Nat attaching herself to Russell means that she gets to the end without offending anyone - except, of course, Russell.
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I have a feeling that Mick wins because Nat and Russell won't get any votes if they're in final 3.
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...is not good because you're hitching your horse to someone else's wagon, and if they crash, you crash. It's playing the game secondhanded. The only player that was ever able to ride coattails in multiple alliances was Vecepia.
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Nat was terrible at challenges, and alliances. She might get 1 or 2 votes, but no game changer. Russell won't get any votes because people will be mad at him. If Jaison is in final three, I say he wins.
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I can definitely see that happening. It's a fine line with Jaison though. Will people see him as an active player or a useless lump? (I don't like to read editing, but there was a scene a few episodes ago about him starting to work for jury votes by saying every decision Russell made was a joint decision with him.)
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He will win. By that time the jury always cools down and gives credit where it's due.
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Did Russell ever win an immunity necklace? Nat never did.
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if I have to see that Goober Pyle looking guy on one more commercial I'm gonna puke.
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...it will prove there is something wrong with the design of the game. He's a really nice guy, but has done nothing but win the last three immunities.
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...get Brett and Russell to vote for Jaison, or will she turn people against Russell?
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...Mick. He'd beat anyone but Brett in a jury vote.
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I'm glad he's gone. He complains about disloyalty, then says he wants Brett to win because "he's the underdog" and Jaison identifies with that? Keep that inferiority complex going, Jaison!
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...of Survivor talkbacks.
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...was a really really good player. He really understands the game and will go down as one of the most under appreciated players in Survivor history like Gregg in Palau.
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Too bad Mick is going to win the whole thing. Russell played such an amazing game too.
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Then he backstabbed no one.
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Shit. Makes sense now. Must... not... read... talkback...
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He wanted out since day 2. And then he dissed Russell.
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Too bad the only jury vote you're sure to get is Erik. Brett, Dave, and Monica could possibly vote for you. I stand by my pick of Mick even though I hope I'm wrong.
Yeah, saber12, I was REALLY disappointed in Jaison's final words, but not terribly surprised. I wondered where the part of him that exploded at the early TC went. Now I know. He just shut up because he thought he was going to win by riding Russell's coattails. Now he has a new devil to demonize. He'll definitely be voting for Mick. -
Priceless.
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Russell has two sure votes: Erik and John.
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Russell still bringing it. He claimed what he did and pride and said the truth is on his side, no one says that in the world, let alone Survivor.
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Maybe your definition of ethical is wrong.
Erik is having a crisis. He doesn't understand how the person he identifies the most with is Russell. -
Haha grats girl.
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Dec 20, 2009 9:07:45 PM CST
well that just blew! You let me down Jury
by daniel_larussos_gonna_fight
Russell is the man
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And what our society is all about. Let the people with ability do all the work, demonize them for doing so, and give the products of their labor to the weakest. Russell not winning is a travesty of justice.
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Did you see his eyes? He definitely makes it far in All-Stars...either that or he became an alcoholic.
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Russell had it all planned out except how to make up for all of the people you screwed not voting for you.
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What a whip. Girls vote for the girl.
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I will never watch Survivor again after that. I cannot believe that jury had the guts to do something like that. Is it a joke? What the hell could be their reasoning. Seriously coattail city.
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Whiny losers! Russell rocks!
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but he's a funny evil loser!
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If you truly believe what you said, apply those principles to real life. Listen to what Jaison just said in the reunion show. Why do we demonize the people who get ahead in real life as he did?
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Coattails is a legitimate strategy. Russell played an impressive, bold, aggressive and eerily, almost supernaturally intelligent game - and Nat followed in his wake, getting all the benefit and none of the flack. I don't necessarily respect her for it, but she won because of what she didn't do - which was make the big moves. She put herself in a position to benefit, and did.I hadn't watched a Survivor since Pearl Islands or shortly after. This was a great season and Russell was the best player I've ever seen.
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Not only did Russell get robbed but Natalie is one of the few who looked better on the island than cleaned up. What a disappointing ending to a great season.
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because his whiny ass apparently influenced the jury against him
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What a shit.
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it's a winning one.
ask ambuh brkich. -
It's a legitimate strategy, but it's essentially gambling. You pick a strong player and go "I hope s/he can make it to the end." If they don't, you don't. So many players ride coattails and never win. Survivor always comes down to a few active players and a bunch of passive players. It all goes back to Seasons 1 and 2. In Season 1, a player started the active style and won (Richard). In Season 2, a player started the passive style and won (Tina). Everything since then has been a tweaking of the strategies.
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...and some dramatic moments, but it wasn't a good season overall. Lack of history of the location, shitty final three (should only be two), no reward challenge with postcards from home or family showing up, and them moving away from car rewards after Dreamz screwed over Yao-man was a bad decision. That and no challenges that required food tempting to opt out. Russell playing his game was great. Shambo was likable. Nat walkin' around nekkid was fun, but dammit, they really need to bring it back to form next fall. Also, work more sponsers into the game, and go commercial free. It would totally work here.
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Also ask Tina, Ethan, Vecepia, Jenna, Sandra, Danni, Bob, and JT.
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there wasn't an obvious best player like Russell...
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Natalie? Really? She could barely count.
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like Russell was, you're gonna pay for it in the end.
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The plea for "sole survivor" makes me think Russell didn't make it to the end of 2010's Survivor All-Stars.
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Ever see the big brother season with Evil Dick? Most of the time you don't pay for it if you clearly played the best game. This jury just couldn't get over their bitterness and give the money to the most deserving person. Sometimes that happens in these shows and it's unfortunate.
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and they won huge. Remember Rob Mariano? Huge prick, and he won.
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If Russell didn't win that we may have seen someone's head explode on live TV.
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Rob just married her
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I hope he's just messing with us.
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by that point.
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That is the only season of Big Brother I watched just for that reason. Evil Dick is the best in Big Brother history.
Boston Rob beat the game itself. He got to the end and married the girl, which means he got the money too. Rob started the strategy Russell used this season when Rob was in Marquesas and perfected it in All-Stars. (Of course, as I already mentioned, the strategy is just a variation of Richard Hatch's strategy.) -
Natalie should thank Russel not the jury. They keep calling Russel evil but he never cast a vote against his own tribe until there was no one else to vote for (ie. Jaison that big suck). Jaison said tonight that peopel at work hate people like Russel but I would hate to work with a lazy complainer like Jaison. He was ready to quit on day 2. Natalie the lump is getting a million dollars how freakin sad is that.
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Natalie should thank Russel not the jury. They keep calling Russel evil but he never cast a vote against his own tribe until there was no one else to vote for (ie. Jaison that big suck). Jaison said tonight that peopel at work hate people like Russel but I would hate to work with a lazy complainer like Jaison. He was ready to quit on day 2. Natalie the lump is getting a million dollars how freakin sad is that.
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Simple as that. It was a great season to be sure, but it will now forever be remembered as the one with the dumbest jury in the history of the game. Here's hoping Russell finds redemption in Heroes vs. Villains.
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oops
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But that Galu tribe is full of a holes.
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Dick was an obnoxious loser that was lucky. Russell is like dr will from big brother. He was manipulative and smart and won the game like Russell should have
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I want to see the final votes and see if it was a sweep. Good for her.
When do they announce the cast for Heroes vs Villains?? -
Because I'm willing to bet his passionate speech about her strategy being awesome changed some minds.
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is trusting. Up against players who've played, and ones who are known for being sneaky like him, he may find it a lot harder to play people. Also, being the unknown among a bunch of players who all know each other, could be detrimental. I could see Russell being the first one in his tribe voted out simply because he's the devil they don't know.I wish Probst had asked these two questions during the reunion of the jury:1) If Russell had voted Mick and forced a tie-breaker with Mick and Brett, and Brett lost, how many who didn't vote for Russell would have respected him giving Brett a fighting chance enough to have voted for him instead of Natalie?2) How many were swayed to vote for Natalie more from what Erik said than anything else?Maybe I missed it, but I'm surprised Russell didn't mention his finding the idols without clues, especially the one that he played that resulted in Kelly getting the boot. That was a pivotal moment (of which there were a few). Without that idol, he was gone, and Mick and Natalie most likely would have followed soon after.
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The cast was announced weeks ago. Check on the net.
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According to wiki it was 7-2 for Natalie but there are two votes missing. I think she deserved to win. The show is edited for more drama for the viewers so there is lots of stuff we don't see. Nat seemed to be well liked, supportive of other players and she worked around camp. Apparently the jury agreed.
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Erik is very smart, and the jury identified with his moral anguish. He pinpointed what the issue in contention was (Why do we, humanity, have conflicting definitions of good skill wise and good morally?) and took a side. The jury fell in line afterwards.
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did not clean up well nor did she deserve the title. She looked like she had already spent some of the money on food looking all like Jiminy Glick the way she did. I look forward to Russell releasing his anger on Heroes/Villains.
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No votes were missing.
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7 + 2 = 9. Correct. But *who* voted was not complete when I checked. It is now:
Nat: Brett, Jaison, Dave, John, Laurie, Kelly, Erik
Rus: Shambo and (presumably) Monica. -
Evil Dr. Will trumps Evil Dick. If you missed the Will Kirby seasons, then the loser is you.
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we as viewers know who should win...but the jury is full of sore losers,instead of giving credit where its due..they decided to be spitefull like the loser bitches they are,they should have thanked russell,not they can all go to reunions and be buddies,he saved them from themselves,they would have all turned on each other and been the backstabbers if they had not been voted off..IT IS INEVITABLE
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Dec 20, 2009 10:50:16 PM CST
A good game means nothing if the jury doesn't like you.
by flim springfield
Natalie got the votes, she deserved the win.
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anoneemus1 said it before, and I agree...I'll accept a coat tails winner if the others aren't worthy, but that only happens when the player who's coat tails were being used (ie. Russel) are voted out before the finals, because other players recognize the threat and take them out first.
It's a joke the jury wouldn't respect that Russel played the game better than anyone before him, and he did it right in front of their eyes...just like when he found the first hidden idol.
And the biggest reason I see why Russel deserved to win was seeing his eyes tonight when he didn't win. A number of people have won this game because they simply wanted to win cash. Russel wanted to win the GAME, and told viewers from the very start.
It's not the first time the jury has screwed the true winner from the title, and Russel can take comfort that fans will know who was the real champion. He'll join Amanda (who lost twice!), Stephanie, and Rob who made it to the end and deserved to win IMO, but instead faced a jury of morons.
Some of Survivors best players don't even make it to the final vote, so Russel achieved something that was unusual right there. And when he won the final immunity, he was right to say he basically just won the game and should take comfort in that. -
...in Mastermind (Hatch) and Coattail (Tina) categories.
Mastermind: Hatch, Brian, Chris, Tom, Aras, Yul, Earl, Todd, Parvati
Coattails: Tina, Ethan, Vecepia, Jenna, Sandra, Amber, Danni, Bob, JT, Natalie
That's 9 vs 10 with one season to play.
The only two debatable winners are Tom from Palau and JT from Tocantins. Did Tom ride Ian's coattails? There's a very good argument for it. Did JT mastermind alongside Stephen? He claims he did. -
I think you've got some winners in the wrong category, and I'd even argue you need another category all together. I can only think to call the other strategy the "Colby". Being physically dominant to win the immunities to stay in the game when you're known to be a physical threat.
Then you have the rare players like Russel who combine the mastermind and colby styles to perfection. To me, Russel was the most complete player since Yul.
But I know more people who had never watched Survivor before this season who tuned in because they heard about Russel, and got hooked. I'm pretty sure Yul never did that. -
Back in the days when the Jury voted the best player to win regardless of what they felt. Now, the show is all about rewarding the underdogs.
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Completely lazy and worthless. IIRC, Neleh changed the game orchestrating a blindside but played the "nice" girl at the final tribal and wouldn't admit to it and that cost her the crown. And that was the season that poor Paschal drew the bad rock. That guy should be invited back since he got beaten by a rock.
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Erik made the case for Natalie better than she did. If he doesn't give his speech, Russell wins, imo. And Natalie also benefited from Mick and Russell arguing while she just stayed calm in the middle.
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...is interesting, but, those players cannot survive without a mastermind alongside them. Of all the winners listed, only Tom would fit that category. Also, wasn't Colby the mastermind of his alliance? Surely it wasn't Keith or Tina. I might be comfortable switching Tina, but that means Ethan was the first true coattail rider winner.
Generally each alliance has four people in it: the mastermind and three coattail riders. The three coattail riders tend to be the confidant, the physical threat, and the nonthreat. Ethan is a good example of the physical threat. JT is a good example of the confidant. Natalie is a good example of the nonthreat.
I do agree though that the most complete player would be the mastermind who is also the physical threat and the confidant or the mastermind who is also the nonthreat and the confidant. I think the latter works better, as proven by the best player ever, Earl Cole.
Yul lacked a certain type of charisma, which is why he didn't attract anyone. He was very smart and talented (I really liked him), but lacked the showmanship of Russell. He is also arguably the closest to being all four of the qualities together in Survivor history. Finally, he's Asian, which Americans just don't seem to embrace for some reason. (Not that we hate them either. We're just kind of like, "Ok, there's an Asian.") -
It's the opening statement Natalie should have made if she had a brain in her head. The standard 'coattail' speech should always be: "Hey, the other guy is s dick, he screwed you. You want to screw him now? Vote for me!" Russel's reaction to wanting the 'sole survivor' title so bad made me beleive he had some kind of a marketing campaign or something lined up that just got f-ed with. Remember, the jury doesn't see the show chopped up like the viewers do. It doesn't matter how the viewers feel, only the jury. Just like O.J.
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...orchestrate? Because, as far as I saw, Kathy changed that game when she stopped being a coattail rider and started being a mastermind after the merge. She brought together the two pairs (Vee/Sean & Paschal/Neleh).
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Russel lost only b/c it was a jury of scorned individuals. He is solely responsible for getting everybody on that jury voted off and only John and Shambo didn't take the game personally. There is a good reason Russel won the fan vote and its b/c we weren't invested in the game and watched Russel singlehandedly dominate like we've never seen before. I mean did nobody watch Russel take down Brett? Not only did Russ have the brains, but when it counted he had the brawn. Its just unfortunate that Natalie was the beneficiary of Russel's brilliant work.
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... if you don't win the jury's vote, you don't win the game. And it all comes down to that doesn't it?Russel knew that the jury would be against him and I figured he had a plan for that too. It just didn't go his way. And from the 7-2 vote it seems he *really* miscalculated.
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...as he said during the reunion show "I take the game very serious. I thought that I won the game because everyone took it so serious." He overestimated people. He's not the first, or the last, incredibly smart person to do so.
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Its just unfortunate that Natalie was the beneficiary of Russel's brilliant work. Shambo had it right by calling out Natalie for riding Russ' coattails, but this is just the first time in Survivor history the coattail rider won.
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The weak are always the beneficiary of the strong in our society. It's the morality we accept. It's why Natalie won.
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He is far and beyond the best player to ever grace the Survivor stage. I would be "visibly upset" too if I had lost to Ratalie. Hopefully he'll win Heroes v/s Villians.
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And Erik's speech was last before the vote because the producers screen what they're going to say before the jury is brought in for the final tribal. So blame the producers. Further, judging by the impromptu votes that Jeff took, this was Russell's best chance to win. Erik's speech changed peoples minds - you could see it happen. AAAAAAAnyway. That would easily be within the top five seasons of Survivor thus far. But it, maybe, the worst finale ever! The reunion show even felt limp because of it.
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It may not be the first time it's happened. But I've watched every season and it's the first time I can remember that somebody started doing that early, continued to do it that consistently and made it all the way to the final three. Day two through day forty - thirty eight days. Damn. The more I think about it Russell really did get screwed.
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A part Russell failed. That's the problem I have with people saying he played better, if he had he'd have won. The jury isn't under any obligation to be objective.
As to coattail riding, that happens in sports all the time, top runners will run in another runners draft and let them do the hard work and then pull ahead at the end. It's all part of the game. I'm not sure the one doing a lot of the work is necessarily smarter than the coattail rider. -
Everyone LOVED Rupert, and he didn't win until the fan vote.
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I think the juries have become less scared over the years, more feeling like they can just do what they want which they can. When the show started they probably felt like they had to act like an objective courtroom jury deciding who was best. Anyway just my 2 cents.
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I was really surprised to see no votes for Mick there. He made a better case than Natalie to the jury. I think Erik wanted himself some Blonde Southern Pie.
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That was the first season of survivor and he played it like he was in the shows 10th season. If Hatch came into the show now as a newbie with the same shtick he would be gone real early. In the first season most of his castmates had no clue what to do. I give him credit for realizing real early how to play a game in its first season.
Natalie looked WAYYYYYYYY hotter on the island. I suggest she go on a diet and leave the hair down long and noddlely looking. She easily put on 15-20lbs. In real life, Monica is the hottest on the show. -
"Hey, Russell...I know you manipulated events, got people booted off the tribe, found all those immunity idols, and won that last immunity challenge, but you carried me to the end so thanks for the million dollars." Russell then proceeds to drive his fist through Ratalie's face.
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Aras was no mastermind. He got lucky because Danielle thought she could win against him and voted off the real mastermind Terry. Just like Jenna did with with Rob C except Danielle underestimated how much people hated her
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Why can't you people understand that it is not a good game if the people on the jury hate you? I was so sick of the idiots on the jury voting for the person that screwed them. Look, he's not a "mastermind" if everyone knows what he has done and dislikes him for it.
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Dec 21, 2009 10:38:20 AM CST
I also loved that Russell looked like he was crying
by jugheads_revenge
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I respect everything you said. I guess I was questioning Todd or Parvati as "masterminds". Ugh. I hated those two winners. In fact, I think both of them beat Amanda who was one of my favourite females in the show's history. She was more on the mastermind/colby perfect combo, IMO. Todd got credit for her moves, and Parvati...I still have no idea how she won!
And I guess I'd put Tina more on the mastermind side, and respected her decision to bring Colby with her to the end. That was gutsy.
I respected Earl's game for sure, but I couldn't say he was the best ever. I think Yau-Man and even the decision by Dreamz had more to do with him being the last, and only worthy one standing.
But we're mostly on the same page. And I would certainly take JT off the coat tails list, because I think he didn't get any credit for working Coach and playing to his ego. Plus, he won to keep himself in the game leaning him more towards the colby strategy. But JT and Russel both beat the odds after the merge.
In many ways, I think Russel was the perfect mix of all the best players in Survivor history, and still came up with new strategies of his own. I'll give Natalie credit for sticking with him, but Russel made deals with EVERYBODY! Think of the odds those Foa Foa had of making it to the final 5 heading into that merge. They all owed everything to Russel and his determination to win the game. In fact, Mick-Jaison-Natalie should have taken out Russel if they were smart. That shows me how un-worthy they actually were. -
It was great seeing him find the idols, sure, but a lot of his time was spent fucking himself by sharing info that NO ONE NEEDED TO KNOW! Why the FUCK would that dumb bald prick tell ANYONE he was a millionaire?!!! He DESERVED to lose just for that bone headed move. It was awesome to see him getting all weepy because he LOST!!! That was a great glimpse of his character. He was very entertaining to watch this season, but being a blowhard and finding idols without clues doesn't win you the money!!
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I even called it -- almost down to the letter -- on the previous "Survivor" talkback: http://tinyurl.com/y9gm7qy
Russell was a great player, but I don't think he's the absolute best ever. He got saddled with players who weren't really into playing the game. In a season with stronger players, he probably wouldn't have made it very far because of how brazen he was with his immunity idols.
The Galus all got lazy because of their winning streak and none wanted to play the game as hard as Russell. If they had any smarts, they would have wised up the Foa Foas to Russell's lies and orchestrated a blindside.
As for the mastermind vs. coattails strategies, there's logic in both, and in a perfect world, the mastermind would have won every season. But most take being voted out personally, so they end up voting for who he or she liked, not who played the game best. -
Russell couldn't have done it alone. He needed a lieutenant to help him execute the plans and gather information. That would be Natalie. They needed each other and therefore used each other. Natalie deserved to win just as much as Russell. Russell was an excellent player so I would be happy to see him win as well. He just has a few bugs in his plan to iron out.
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b/c his tribe was so awful he had to do everything for himself or he was gone immediately after the merge. What he didn't count on was that everybody on the Galu tribe was just as stupid as his own. As evidenced by their votes for Natalie.
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Erik just boiled down the reason never to watch this show again with that quote last night. If winning is arbitrary then why the fuck am I watching the show? Sure watching the drama on a weekly basis is somewhat entertaining but ultimately I'd like to watch a show where the winner truly deserved the win.
This is also the problem with filling the show with a bunch of hippies that don't understand how the game is played. They would have been fine voting off Russell or anyone else to get farther in the game but because he was smarter and a better player than them and was able to vote them off before they could do the same to them he has to deal with a bitter jury. The losers are bitter and don't understand what it takes to win because in their hippy utopian version of survivor everyone plays nice and no one gets voted off and everyone wins the million dollars.
I'm done watching this show until they fix the problems of having a bitter jury award the million dollars arbitrarily. -
Thenatural174, I am going to rewatch Australia with a keener eye on Tina in light of this season. Also, I see your point about JT and agree. He is an extremely interesting case.
throwmetheidol, they have a moral obligation to be objective. Would Erik, Laura, Dave, or John like it if Kelley or Brett won over them? Notice how John voted for Russell...
I think Aras was a spoiled brat of rich parents, but he was the mastermind of his alliance. Terry was the physical threat of the opposing alliance and only made it so far because of an immunity run. Actually, there are a few similarities between Aras/Terry and Russell/Brett. Look, I think Aras was obnoxious, but I give credit where credit was due. The guy was smart. -
The producers need to step in and remind jury members to vote based on who best played the game, not base it on who they are least pissed off with. Take emotion out, suck it up and grow a pair, and make an objective, rationale choice. If this kind of crap continues - where BLATANT coattail-riders can win without doing anything like Natalie - then they will lose all credibility and fans. It never ceases to amaze me when jury members get pissed at the finalists for lying/cheating/deceiving - IT'S PART OF THE FREAKING GAME!!!! Have they ever even watched Survivor before??? It is impossible to win without doing these things. But yet total wimps like Erik have to bitch about "unethical" play as a reason to not vote for Russell and conversely as a reason to vote for Natalie. Total and complete bullshit.
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"... if they were smart. That shows me how un-worthy they actually were."Maybe they would have if things had gone differently. If they had had the chance to get rid of Brett instead of Shambo, it is possible we might have seen the next vote for the final four be the one to usurp Russell. However, they needed Brett gone to stage a coup. None of them could risk fracturing their alliance while keeping that kid around. They were smart enough not to repeat Galu's game-changing gaffe.Russell's downfall was his ego. He played a great game but his ego required that everyone know and acknowledge that. He needed recognition of his skills as a manipulative and deceptive player so badly that he told Mick he was in fact a millionaire. He needed that "way to go, you the man" validation from someone in the game. Had he kept his cockiness in check it might have helped him from rubbing people the wrong way. No one likes a sore loser but the same can be true of an ungracious winner.I didn't see Natalie as a coat-tail rider; Mick was much more so than she was. Jaison too, but at least he once won individual immunity. Natalie was Russell's eyes & ears around camp (probably more ears than eyes). He used her to keep tabs on what was going on. She used him to do the heavy lifting in terms of manipulating and lying. However, she was the one that convinced Laura Erik had to go. That was the turning point in the game. That doesn't happen, someone from Foa Foa goes instead, and John isn't quite so nervous about his tribe's intentions and eager to switch sides. Granted, Russell's finding, and using the idol on the next vote, the one that sent Kelly packing, and created the 5-5 split between Galu & Foa with Shambo, was also a pivotal moment. However, that moment, while having a lot to do with Russell being a great player, came about because Laura was dumb enough to go after him a second time instead of one of the other Foas, or even Shambo.
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You're right, leaving Brett would have been worse. But at the same time, if Brett's protected by the idol and they instead choose to eliminate Jaison...that's where I stop and take a look at the biggest threat. But I totally understand the fear of beating Brett in the next challenge, and in the end Russell was able to do that, so it justified that decision.
I'm not one of the ones crapping on Natalie, but compared to Russell it's Muhammad Ali vs. "Glass Joe" from NES PunchOut.
MapMan> You're right too, Russell needed Natalie. Throughout the season in cheering for Russell, I always thought thankfully he had the secret alliance w/ her, any time there was talk about Foa Foa turning on him. She could give him the head's up, unless she decided to turn on him too. To her credit, she never seemed tempted.
Bob Cryptonight> I don't think Russ telling Mick about his salary was a bonehead move at all. Turns out, Mick had a career to hide too, which gave them a bond. And it could be argued sitting next to a millionaire could help your chances to win.
Russell made mistakes, but he often corrected them. He would confide in people then realize he either made the wrong choice or said too much. Laura, John and others then had targets on their backs thanks to Russel.
To me, Russel's brilliant gameplay can be summed up in one episode. After playing his 2nd hidden idol, the original Galu chased him around the beach making sure they stopped him from finding another one. Russ sees Dave getting close to a rock he thinks is covering the idol, and he just takes off. Dave stops what he's doing and chases after him. Russel loses everyone, including the camera men (!), doubles back and turns over the exact same rock for idol #3. (They needed a whole hour to just talk about Russell!)
It's like he was always in 6th gear and everyone else this season were stuck in 1st. Players like Russell rarely make it to the finals and the jury should have recognized that. He'll have to win season 20, or otherwise join Ozzy as one of the best players to never win. -
Wouldn't it be fun to see Survivor with all strong athletic people, instead of these no names that never win immunities?
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Dec 21, 2009 2:49:44 PM CST
natecore, it's partly Russell's fault his team was "awful" and
by big jim
"had to do everything himself". Right from the beginning he was getting rid of strong players, creating dissension among his teammates, and doing stuff that demoralized and weakened them both as individuals and as a team. They went into the merge outnumbered 2 - 1. His "game" almost cost him the game. He didn't pull the fat from the fire on his own. Other Russell getting pulled meant Galu did not go to tribal council that night where they most likely would have voted out Shambo. That was just a lucky break for Foa Foa. Also, as I've said before, it was Natalie who got put the idea in Galu's head to get rid of Erik first. To me that was the turning point in the game. Russell benefitted from that move as much as Natalie benefitted from Russell lying to and manipulating John.
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WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!! WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE ISLAND!!
She looked real sweet in that bikini. Its amazing how a lot of these girls look way less hot when they are dolled up and fatter. -
Russell deserved to lose just for that.
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Amanda was a coattail rider/immunity threat, a very good very likeable one, but one all the same. It's no coincidence she allied with Todd and Parvati. Watch what she does next season. It'll be the same strategy, and I bet she gets far.
The whole Natalie setup Erik crap is bs the producers are trying to sell us to make us stomach her win. I said it to a friend after it happened. John set Erik up. Go back and watch it. He planted a suggestion that made Erik seem disloyal, then turned everyone against him. John was planning to use the Foa Foa at the merge all along. And it probably would have worked for him if Russell weren't so damn good. -
He blindsided everyone! Hell, even Laura and Shambo. People he barely knew. I don't get it. Natalie blows.
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He started bragging about being a millionaire! What a dipshit! He went from being an annoy, deceitful player (which is cool, btw) to being a RICH annoying, deceitful player. Who the fuck wouldn't have a grudge against him? His ego took over and he fucked himself. At first he was this devious guy who didn't need the money but wanted to prove he could win. That's cool for THE AUDIENCE to know, but Jesus--the dude has to have FORMER PLAYERS vote for him!! What a dummy!
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Damn, that's so shady. Meanwhile, Tiger Woods sleeps with a new babe a week while he's married and that's okay? Give me a break.
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People of ability are considered immoral, especially those that are proud of their ability like Russell is.
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Russell told Mick in secret about his money because he felt Mick needed an extra motivator to stick with Russell and not betray him. Not the best move but it did solidify Mick's trust in Russell.
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So ... there won't be any next year? Yayyyy!
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Dec 22, 2009 6:17:28 AM CST
"Oh darn, he bragged..." and then no one wanted to vote for him.
by bob cryptonight
LOL!! He fucked up. You can play SURVIVOR like fucking Tarzan...but at the end it comes down to you and one other person & voting. That's the GAME. If you don't have a plan for that (which Russel clearly DID but his ego ended up fucking him...) then you lose. And apparently cry about it. The sausage-fingered midget.
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...because everyone wants it. That's obvious. But it's BAD when you're on a t.v. GAME SHOW and your fellow contestants all WANT TO WIN MONEY and you already have it!!! Russel played the game like a mad man...and just went a little too mad with the ol' Texas ego. It was a classic moment of SURVIVOR and Jeff really milked it for all it was worth.
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The losers couldn't handle the fact they got played by the better player. Great Survivor series with a terrible winner.
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Someone losing Survivor because they have money is akin to the rich being taxed more. It's people being punished for success. Not only does that outcome occur, but those people with money are looked down upon morally.
Natalie wasn't the best player. Without Russell, Natalie loses. Without Natalie, Russell does the same. -
Good points, you're right about John too, I didn't think about that. My friends all liked him as a true player as well. If Russ didn't have Shambo, he may have stuck w/ John longer.
In fact, Russell gets little credit for working Sham after the merge. When Sham came to visit Foa Foa before the merge, she actually made friends w/ the others before Russell, and it wasn't until Russ saw the divide in Galu that he got so close to her. The other Foa Foa didn't even try to do that...they were all riding Russell's coat tails!
Natalie may have executed Erik's blindside, but only b/c she had boobs. If Russell brought another woman, it would have been her job to get cozy w/ the Galu women and see who they didn't like. I actually liked Elizabeth's skills and think she could have easily done it too.
Anyway, respect to all Survivor fans! Enjoy the next season! -
I liked Russell throughout the series but his actions during and since the reunion are causing me to lose respect for him. e.g. http://www.russellgotscrewed.com/It's noble of him to donate proceeds to charity but get over it man!
At the end of the day, 7 jurors voted for Natalie. The jury decided they wanted her to get the money. Is Russell the better player? He did some amazing things and will go down in Survivor history for his accomplishments. But Natalie (and Mick) helped him get to the final 3 as well.Anybody that gets that far in the game without being voted out has played a good game and aligned themselves with the right people. So kudos to Natalie for getting 7 of the 9 votes. -
If Russell was so smart he should have adjusted his strategy. He clearly had a strategy going in that ignored the other competitors reactions. If he truly was the "master" he would have made things happen without casting all blame upon himself.
If you didn't win, then your strategy was flawed. Pissing that many people off wasn't masterful. -
thenatural174, I agree with the woman comments. It actually may have been more to Russell's advantage to work with Marisa or Liz. They both proved to be smart and confident women who would have been more helpful than Natalie.
mapman, that website is about the charity not the "getting screwed." Not one place on the site can I find where the "votes" actually go. Don't fall into the marketing ploy and get it backwards.
frodofraggins, I generally agree with you and that's why Russell is not the best player ever. He was only marketed as such as a way to raise the ratings on the show. -
How in the world is Erik qualified to judge Russell's gameplay in the first place? He was the first f'in person kicked off after the merge. He wasn't there, he was on the jury and just saw the evictions. I don't recall Russell telling the jury each time someone got evicted that he was the mastermind behind it. But here is Erik with his prepared speech about how Russell played the game unethically. That was complete and utter bullshit. The producers need to step in or I'm done with this show
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Most of us work with someone like Russell, and we hate that guy. Now viewers like him...I don't get why. I feel exactly like Jaison, I'd hate to be around him.
Also don't believe that he is full of honesty and integrity, etc, in real life. Suuure..a regular Mr. Nice Guy! -
As long as you only count the middle part of the season. The beginning and end, though, was close to crap.
What if they HAD voted off Natalie instead of Jaison? Would Russell still have lost? I don't remember why the hell he thought Natalie would be better to keep around than Jaison. -
The jury stays on the island and hears EVERYTHING that has happened from each person as they're voted off. More than that, there is no longer game play involved. So they can just sit around discussing what's happened in minute detail. And I'll say again in response to everybody who has mentioned it; the producers DID step in. THEY put Erik and his speech last before the vote. That didn't "just happen" accidentally. However, the fact that Russell got another chance so quickly may well be the producers seeing the error of their ways.
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Survivor isn't real life, it's a game. My company's motto isn't outwit, outplay, outlast, but the game Survivor's is.
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As will most of this years people. Jaison was not a threat, and Russell should've kept him. No one was a threat except for Brett, and he beat Brett! Jury was stupid.
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I too think Russell played the better game, but he failed the final test.If you piss off a jusry and throw it in their faces that he pkayed them, then what did he expect them to do. Everyone knows that the jury makes the final decision. It's his own fault that he lost because he got to cocky at the end and the jury made him pay for it.
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because they were bitter, bitter tards who are used to riding on coattails in their personal lives.
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So their scheming was beaten by someone elses scheming. And they get all self-righteous and holier than thou about it. Idiots. If you beat these people at Monopoly they'd declare you a cheat who didn't deserve to win because you made more money and had more hotels. Arseholes.
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99% of them are Galu, and they turned on their own tribe first.
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The Jury should be made up of actual winners of former games as well as the runner ups. Wait...no, give it more drama. Make that jury as an upper chamber [like a Senate or House of Lords/Winners] that can over rule the regular jury if they do something retarded like this one just did.
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the idea to vote out Erik (at least at that point in the game). I believe the footage was aired during the clip episode. He was approached by Dave and Monica and told "this is what's happening". It wasn't a discussion on the possibility, it had already been decided. Brett too seemed equally confused by the decision and pissed he hadn't been consulted.Natalie didn't play the mind-games like Russell but she still managed to hold her own. Remember, this was the girl who, during a challenge, was hanging from a swinging platform by her ankles grabbing and placing numbered flags. Alone it's not worth a million bucks but it was still impressive.Amanda was something of a coattail rider in China, but in Fans vs Favourites she was much more of a player. Again she won the final 2 immunities, she found the idol and played it to save her skin, and she killed a shark with her bare hands while wearing a bikini. Amanda's problem wasn't her gameplay, it was her inability to answer the jury's questions. Cerie asked her why she chose Parv over her, a question that she had to know was coming. She replies with some barely coherent blathering about "respecting gameplay", which only pissed Cerie off more. Thing is, earlier in the game, when it was Amanda, Cerie, & Parv and 3 fans left, Cerie opted to vote with the fans to get rid of Amanda rather than risk a tie, despite Amanda pleading with her to not vote against her. So, at final tribal, when Cerie asked "why Parv and not me" Amanda should have said "when push came to shove, Parv stood by me, you did not". Simple, and honest. Yet, for some reason, it never occurred to Amanda to mention it.Russell is the kind of guy who takes all the credit when things go right, but is quick to point fingers when things go wrong. He was always going on about how easy it is to win the game, how he's in control, how simple and perfect his plan was. Then, when it dawned on him that his tribe would be going into a merge badly outnumbered, he blames his tribe. "These idiots are gonna cost me a million bucks". Apparently it's all their fault, and none of his, that his tribe couldn't win challenges. If his tribe is full of idiots it's because he made certain to get rid of all the smart people, the ones who pegged him as manipulative and untrustworthy. His tribe having trouble acting as a cohesive unit is everyone else's fault and has got nothing to do with all the "chaos" he took such pride in causing? Yeah, right.Russell played a great manipulative game. He is an excellent idol finder. He had some success in the challenges. However, while he was good at getting rid of direct threats against himself, he failed at identifying the indirect threats. He was so blinded by his belief that he played a perfect game, that no one could even come close, that he could not see how someone like Natalie might get a few votes. He guessed right in keeping Mick over Jaison, but misjudged the difference it would make keeping Natalie instead of Jaison (or keeping her instead of Shambo). Really, except for Brett, she was probably the most liked person in the final 6. I get the feeling, in evaluating his teammates' chances at the end, he just lumped them all together. In his mind, the final tribal council would be "Russell and the 2 not-Russells".
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They should never, ever, again have a 3 person finale. That third person is a waste of space. I may be wrong, but I don't think the 3rd person has ever been a factor, or gotten so much as 1 vote. I think every time it's either been a 2-horse race, or the winner won unanimously. The other reason I think they should do away with having a trio at the final tribal is the possibility of a winner winning with less than 50% of the Jury's vote. If the vote was mostly evenly split, with the jury made up of 9 people, one could win with only 4 votes. Again, I could be wrong, but I believe in the past they have done the three-way finale with as few as 7 jury members (possibly China) - 3 votes could be enough to crown that winner. The winner should be the person that more than 50% of the jury want to win it. The winner should never be the person that the majority of the jury did not vote for.
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He failed to recognize or respect one of the most basic aspects of Survivor - anything can happen. Right from the beginning I found him very arrogant whenever he boasted about how easy it was to win the game. Great gameplay can only get you so far. Luck plays a part, as does the unpredictability of your fellow players. But perhaps that fuels the notion that the producers played a part in Natalie winning. Maybe they don't want it know how easy it was to win. On the other hand, I think the producers purposely made up those tribes the way they did so that Russell landed in the one with the more trusting, less savvy, players.
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Because they want to be celebs, but they'll wind up as D listers on some game show.
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To be honest, I didn't watch the clip show. I had something else to do and have grown tired of them over the years. However, if someone commands you to vote for someone when it was your idea all along, it's great to act reluctant.
I don't count immunities and hidden idols as great game play. In a "pure" game, there is no idol. In a pure game, Russell is gone. The reason I don't consider immunities into gameplay is that they aren't all based on the same skill set. A lot of them are won by lucky. Kim J in Africa essentially proves my immunity point. Amanda proves it too. What made her a better player in Micronesia was she won immunities and had an idol? The shark point is legit, the rest is not.
Look, the problem with coattail riding is it's a passive style of play. You can click off for large portions of the game and still come out on top. Rewarding that style with the crown is inherently unjust because it promotes weaker and less intelligent players and leads to a less competitive game. If you're a reasonably smart person who has watched Lex, Rob Cesternino, Jonny Fairplay, Boston Rob, Ian, and Russell (to name a few) all lose to Under the Radar coattail riders, what style are you going to play now?
For the record though, really smart people will look at Richard Hatch, Brian Heidik, Earl Cole, and Yul Kwon. (Maybe even Aras.) They are the elite in Survivor history. I would also include Boston Rob in that category because he said in game he knew he could beat Jenna, but had other reasons for taking Amber, and then beat the game itself by marrying her.
You're right a lot about Russell. Many great masterminds in Survivor have great short term thinking, but no long term thinking. Russell is such a player. The great players listed in the previous paragraph all had tremendous long term thinking as well as short term thinking.
I agree the final three should be stopped, but I think it should be because it contradicts the game. With three players left, you can still be voted out. With two left, a jury is needed to determine a final one. The final three was added though because many players who finished third in the early seasons so very obviously deserved to win, Lex, Kathy, Rob C, Jonny Fairplay, but were voted out when they lost the final challenge. So, rather than get rid of the final challenge and leave it up to the players, they made a final three. Lame. -
Great stuff survivor fans! I'm not crazy about having a final 3 either and would like to see it go back to 2.
@Big Jim - didn't the captains pick the tribes? I seem to recall that they were formed that way and not by the producers.
I didn't know that the jurors had to have prepared speeches that were pre-screened by the producers. It seemed to be more off the cuff and influenced by previous responses. That doesn't seem fair.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are seeing a small fraction of the interactions and camp life which has been edited for better drama. We are in a sense being manipulated by the producers to gravitate toward certain individuals. So perhaps Natalie was just more pleasant to have around and helped to make life easier for the others. Jaison made the comment that he had *never* seen Russell get firewood. Natalie seemed to always be cheerful and supportive. I would appreciate having someone like that around when things are going bad.
There is no rule that says you *have* to vote for the person who most deserves to win or who played the better game. You are voting for who you want to get the money. Obviously the viewing public had a different idea than the people who actually went through the experience. -
I think that something should be done about the way the jury votes. I don't think that the final vote should be based on personal feeling but more on merit. If it had been a final 2 and Russel had been against a member of the other tribe, even if that player had been the worst player in Survivor history, the jury would still vote for that person just because it's not Russel or just because that person was "nice". Come on, it's like they never watched Survivor before. All of a sudden they talk about human values, etc. Gimme a freaking break. All the players should be reminded that Survivor is a game about winning one million dollars, not to make friends or finding the new mother Theresa.
As for gameplay, there's no denying that Russel played a better game. I'm willing to admit that Natalie might have played her own style of game but in all honesty, how much playing was she really doing. I have a perfect example. Just before the final challenge, while the other players were singing kumbaya at camp, Russel was already planning ahead and making deals with Brett just in case Brett would win. Was Natalie doing anything in case Brett won ? No. Her gameplan was basically just being nice and relying on people liking her enough to keep her until the final 3.
When I watch the world series, it's the best team that wins not the team with the nicest players. Do I always like the winners ? No, but if they were better they deserved to win. -
When Natalie started to speak for the first time after winning, I said to my wife, "Where's Kanye when you need him?!"
"Yo Natalie, I'm really happy for you. I'm gonna let you finish. But Russell had one of the best games of ALL TIME. One of the best Survivor games of ALL TIME!" -
thenatural74, that is my Facebook status right now. Thanks. I wish someone had actually done that during the reunion show.
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on who the leaders should be. The leaders were picked by the teams, not the other way around. Jayemel - Amanda, Parvati, and Cerie were always bouncing ideas and scenarios off each other. Amanda wasn't quite as ruthless as the other two, but was still an integral part of that alliance. There wasn't a mastermind there, it was much more of a group effort (except for getting rid of Ozzie, which was smart of them to keep from her).To me, the epitome of the coattail rider is Amber. In Australia she was nothing more than Jerri's second vote. In All Stars she just traded Jerri for Rob. To me, a coattail rider is someone who just takes up space in the game and contributes nothing. Monica came across as one. The clip show you missed had a great scene of Shambo trying to explain to her why "Galu was no more". She whines "but why does it have to be that way". Shambo says because Erik was voted out and "Purple is no more". Monica justifies that move, and the reason why she believes the Galu alliance is not fractured and is in fact stronger than ever, with "Erik was false Purple". Someone like that, with such a blind allegiance to her 6 or 7 person alliance, never giving thought to what happens once all that's left is her alliance (who'll be the first of them to go), that's a coattail rider. I don't think that's Natalie.Natalie didn't make any big moves because she didn't have to. Had Galu voted Mick or Jaison instead of Russell when he played the idol the second time (when Kelly got the boot), one of the 2 Foa men would have been the next to go. At that point Natalie's days are numbered unless she makes a move (possibly even by sacrificing Russell). But we'll never know because things didn't go that way. After the merge she was in an alliance of necessity. The four Foas had to stick together. Within 3 votes they had control but until all the Galu's, except Shambo, were gone, it would be a mistake to make a big move to jockey for position within her alliance. Sure, she and the others could have voted out Russell instead of Jaison for the final four but why would she. I'm sure she felt a lot more comfortable with Russell than with Mick or Jaison.I don't see why it's a perfectly acceptable strategy for Russell to use others but not when Natalie uses Russell. She used him to do the heavy lifting, to manipulate and lie, to wear the target. For a while they were at a numerical disadvantage. The best strategy is to do whatever you need to do to stay in the game, live to fight another day. Not making a target of yourself, especially when your tribemate is more than happy to wear it himself, is a good strategy of self preservation. Hey, the finale, and winner, could have been a lot less deserving. If it hadn't been for Russell's immunity idol, we very well might have had a final 3 of Laura, Monica, and Brett.
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Mick, Jaison, Natalie, and Shambo were ALL guilty of this. They let Russell think for them, who to vote out, why, etc.
Natalie's argument of using Russell purely as a shield is bs that Matt tried in the Amazon finally with Rob C. No one bought it then. Why are they buying it now? (I actually think Matt had more of a case then Natalie too!)
It's about playing the game secondhanded. No one can deny that all the boot decisions were Russell's. The only two players who even tried to plan with him were Shambo and John. As already explained here, Russell picked players that he knew wouldn't think because, as a thinker himself, he knew thinkers were most dangerous to him. Look at the boot order of the Galu's post-merge: Erik, Kelly, Laura, John, Dave, Monica, Shambo, Brett. Throwing out Kelly because she went there because Laura had immunity, that list is ordered from the most active players, the heaviest thinkers, to the least.
The passive players like Natalie always claim they didn't have to make big moves because someone else was making them, but there is always someone else to make the big moves, and that's the secret they don't tell you. It's a slight of hand that results in them stealing the spoils. They hang around, let you design the hut, do as their told in the construction process, and then afterwards say the hut belongs to them because it was their hands that built it. No, it was your know how that built it. Likewise, passive players claim it's their vote that got them to the end. No, it's the active players knowledge of strategy and gameplay that got them to the end. And you're exactly right. If Russell didn't find that idol, the cognate final three would have been Laura, Monica, and Dave, with Monica winning as she would have claimed the exact same strategy as Natalie.
As I said earlier, it all results in discouraging active game play. If passive players continue to be rewarded, people will continue to play passively. That style of play is boring for everyone, players and viewers. Why do you think ratings have decreased since the first season? Why do you think the show hasn't been in the top 5 or averaged more than 20 million since Palau (season 10)? Why do you think there was such a response to Russell when he's actually not anywhere close to the best player ever? Because people get tired of the show. They figure it out and move on. It's virtually the same every season because no one dares to think and experiment with styles of play.
From it's beginning, Survivor has been a microcosm of human society, and it will continue to be even as it destroys itself. Like Russell said, he thought everyone took the game as seriously as him. They don't because most people don't even take life that seriously. -
Dec 23, 2009 8:13:45 PM CST
I think few, if any, have taken the game as seriously as Russell
by big jim
From the reunion show it seems he's more interested in the title of "Sole Survivor" than most are in the money. After all, most on the show are young and, because of the show, have acquired a certain amount of notoriety and "good will". They may have opportunities to accumulate that million bucks in other ways. But the title of Sole Survivor you only get from winning the game, something no amount of money or second-place finishes can get you.
"It's about playing the game secondhanded. No one can deny that all the boot decisions were Russell's. The only two players who even tried to plan with him were Shambo and John. "
We saw him strategizing with Natalie, as well as at times with both Mick and Jaison. Sure, the people who got voted out were the people Russell thought should go, but that doesn't mean Natalie hadn't come to the same conclusion. How could we as an audience know the difference between her agreeing to vote someone out because Russell says so and her agreeing with him because she knows it's the best move? If the two of them agree, if there's no conflict, and very little discussion as to the" whys" then there isn't much for the editors to show us.
I disagree about the decline in the show. I think it's gotten better since the All-Star season. After the first few seasons, it seemed like the show was the same. One alliance dominated and the final four was fairly obvious right from the merge. To me passive players are part of the game, just like reward challenges, lack of food and shelter and fire, merges, tribe change-ups, good luck and bad, and everything else a player has to overcome to win the game. Passive players are just as dangerous as hard-playing ones because they don't stand out. Like everything else in the game, they need to be considered and dealt with. It's the unpredictability of the game that I like and passive players can be a monkey wrench in the best laid plans. No matter how well he played the game, and how much he deserved to win, Russell didn't anticipate how much the Jury would prefer Natalie over him (as opposed to Jaison or Shambo). The Jury may have voted for Natalie for all the wrong reasons (haven't watched any extras or the last few Ponderosa videos so don't know if their reasonings have been revealed) but I believe Russell should have considered that and acted accordingly. -
LMFAO! Don't even put that goon in the same breath as Russell or Rob M. Lex was awful and Rob exposed him for the weak minded, trusting doof he was.
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"The basic need of the creator is independence. The reasoning mind cannot work under any form of compulsion. It cannot be curbed, sacrificed or subordinated to any consideration whatsoever. It demands total independence in function and in motive. To a creator, all relations with men are secondary."
vs.
"The basic need of the second-hander is to secure his ties with men in order to be fed. He places relations first. He declares that man exists in order to serve others."
Which is Russell and which is Natalie?
(Natecore, that Lex was the mastermind in Africa is hard to disagree with, that he is one of the all time great players is hard to prove. Giving some credit doesn't mean giving all the credit.) -
you don't get played like a fool and get your name mentioned w/ the best. Boston Rob perfectly used Lex and threw him to the garbage when he was no longer needed propelling himself to get the girl and the accompanying million dollars. In my opinion, lex stands side by side w/ Erik's blunder of giving up the immunity necklace as dumbest move in Survivor history.
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I agree that Boston Rob made Lex look silly in All-Stars, but you have to consider that it was in an All-Stars season. Also, I think Boston Rob is one of the top players ever, so that has to factor into the discussion as well. Regardless, I believe we are in agreement. I am merely saying that Lex had his strengths as a player.
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During All-Stars he was over-thinking it and badly got ahead of himself. He felt his not taking out the big physical threats early in Africa cost him the game. So, in All-Stars he thought to rectify that by blind-siding the players he saw as his biggest competition after the merge. Trouble was, he made that move too early, ended up gutting his tribe, putting him and his tribe at a numerical disadvantage after the merge.
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He played Richard Hatch's strategy to a T without understanding why it worked then and why it doesn't work now. There were only 16 survivors that first season, 7 Jury members, a final 2. What that means is that 2 of Richard's gang of 4 were put onto the jury. Rudy, who would have slit his wrists rather than not keep his word, and Sue.. who felt screwed over by the upstart. Either way, thats 2 guaranteed votes for which he needed just 2 out of the other 5 people to vote for him, to win the million. The playing field was slanted in his favor. Since then, they've expanded Survivor.. this season was 20 players, 9 Jury members, and a final 3. Its a 1-2 punch against the Richard strategy. You have a bigger Jury with more members that weren't part of your alliance, and an extra member of your alliance is now no longer on the bench able to show their appreciation for taking them deep and actually vote for you. The combination of the two puts the mastermind at the disadvantage while the upstart gets the advantage because all of a sudden the Jury is loaded with people you screwed over. Can people get spiteful? Sure, and thats what happened. Russell had an answer for everything but this, which was not to be as overt a dick, and it cost him the million plain and simple.
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brand new. He came up with the notion of an Alliance - himself and 3 people who vote as a block. Everyone else voted for who they thought should go home (useless around camp or at challenges, a pain in the ass, etc). Or, in the case of the doctor, voting alphabetically. By the time people figured out what was happening it was too late.Russell's strategy was to do what he could to keep everyone off balance, create chaos as he put it, and make alliances with everyone, making promises he only intended to keep as long as it was in his best interest. The numbers should have worked in his favour as, as long as he went to the final 3 with 2 of his Foa alliance. Jaison was the most screwed-over by Russell. He really believed Russell had been sincere about the 2 of them going to the finals. Shambo also had a reason to be spiteful as she was used and then discarded. John too, to a lesser extent. But the rest had no reason to hold a grudge. They got outplayed, partly by Russell and the rest of Foa Foa, and partly by their own lack of foresight and stupid "strategies". Funnily enough, though, 2 of those 3 people, who got played by Russell, who were blatantly used for their votes and then discarded once their usefulness to Russell had expired, thought he deserved to win. The rest were so busy blaming Russell, and holding a grudge, because they couldn't come to terms that the real reason most of them were out of the game was a result of their poor game-play and really had little to do with Russell. Also, I have to think that a lot of the jury was put off by Russell's overconfidence. Not playing the idol, keeping it as a souvenir, while a great TV moment, was a massive middle-finger not only to the entire jury, but also to his alliance.Hatch won because the jury recognized he had come up with a game winning strategy. Hatch was part of an alliance so his actions were the actions of the group. The only person you could say he screwed over was Sue. Russell lost because his ego got the best of him. He failed to recognize that some on the jury might hold a grudge, either for lying and screwing them over, or for doing so to someone else (like Brett). He failed to properly evaluate the difference in jury votes by taking Natalie over Shambo, or Mick over Jaison, or Natalie over Jaison. He thought his gameplay was enough. He didn't consider like-ability would be a factor so it never occurred to him to rank the other 2 finalists he could be sitting beside according to how popular they might be with the jury (with the exception of Brett, of course).Although he was an entertaining player, I'm glad Russell didn't win. I've been watching Survivor since the very first episode and have seen that winning is never easy, despite what Russell thought. While deception and manipulation are a necessary part of a winning strategy, there needs to be more to one's game. Lying is easy; lying while still being like-able is the real trick.
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