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Harry reviews AVATAR at last!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I love AVATAR – and it isn’t because of the 3D, the big blue people, the alien landscape with floating mountains and it’s version of flying critters. It isn’t because of the mech armor, the flying battleships and the wasp-like helicopters. It is because of the story.
Now, a story isn’t just about characters and their actions… stories are often about the times in which those actions took place. Stories are not evaluated by just the dialogue between characters, but why these conversations are taking place.
The basic structure of the story and the conceit comes from the early 20th Century where you had authors like Edgar Rice Burroughs postulating stories set on Mars & Venus and their moons. But in PRINCESS OF MARS, John Carter magically appears upon the surface of an amazing Mars that has clean air for him to breathe. Once upon the planet, he is found to have miraculous pre-SUPERMAN super-strength, speed & agility. He becomes one with the warrior race of Tharks, falls in love with a Helium princess and does battle against… well a very bad guy! Many writers talk about where the pieces of AVATAR comes from, but as a life long mega-geek of science fiction and fantasy – I love that with AVATAR, Cameron has envisioned a future for us that is something rather remarkable.
There is no magical warp drive, light speed… this future of mankind is based on heightened existing technology and known science and equipment. To get to Pandora, you’re asleep for years. Much like what we see in films like ALIEN & ALIENS. There’s a grounding to it all, and very much like those films – we’re in an alternate arc of that possible future for mankind.
We have exhausted supplies here on Earth, and we’re heading out into the universe gathering those materials. The film begins with a ship made for that journey. Giant cryo-sleep compartments with what looks like several hundred sleep areas. The ship is covered with Solar arrays, giant containers of water, fuel, etc – which are on all sides of this massive, very NASA-y looking ship – that is practical low tech high tech for the future. It isn’t the sort of ship you can easily put together. If they made a model kit of it, there’d be a shitload of tiny pieces that would drive you nuts putting together – but in the end, would look amazing.
Out of this sleep we’re introduced to Jake Sully. Jake isn’t your typical hero, but in reality… he is. He’s a soldier that became a paraplegic due to combat. A story we hear a lot about back here on Earth of the early 21st Century. He had a twin brother, it seems these twins had nearly complete opposite ambitions in life. Jake was all about diving into combat, while his brother expanded his mind with science, and the dream of exploring a strange new world.
In this future, the most amazing science fiction conceit has come about. An AVATAR program. Where hybrid alien bodies are grown and created with the express purpose of working and interacting with the native denizens of the planet moon of Pandora. Now – think about this for a second. We’re growing alien/human hybrids that can be controlled via the consciousness of a human. I love this concept. Are these hybrids’ fertile? Or are they the horse/donkey MULE hybrid that can’t reproduce. Sorry, getting ahead of myself a bit.
This universe is incredibly detailed. From the science tech you see everywhere, to the ships on the planet surface… well, it is amazing.
However, what grabs me is this Jake Sully character. He isn’t crazy charismatic, he’s a grunt. Not only that, he’s a warrior that lost his legs in some war that was going on in Venezuela. Wonder if we were going after the oil or the cattle. Hmm maybe it was for the Llamas.
The future of mankind isn’t too terribly distant from our own times, it is just… we’ve hit a new age. Like back around the late 15th through 16th century Earth – when the European nations began sending ships of warriors, scientists and religious advocates to the new world. In this world, we’ve seemingly left the story of Jesus back on Earth – as I see no signs of religion being foisted upon the natives of this planet-moon.
We can only imagine back on Earth, what footage from Pandora has done to excite the minds of us humans. Now – the mission to Pandora isn’t an AMERICAN endeavor, it’s a Corporate one. Even now, we’re seeing corporate interests driving the use of outer space and as profit is proven, we’ll see Corporations doing more. All they need is to see is their carrot. Cameron uses the term, UNOBTANIUM, to describe this ‘carrot’. UNOBTANIUM is a word, used since the 50s by scientist to describe the undiscovered needed material that would solve all the problems that not having that material would bring us. Yes, the name is an eye-roller – but it could be far worse, as scientists have also come up with UNATTAINIUM, WISHALLOY and my fave… HANDWAVIUM!!! The film doesn’t concern itself with telling us what this magical mineral found on Pandora does, but that isn’t the story at hand.
No, the story at hand concerns Jake Sully. Jake hates his wheelchair. He doesn’t like being treated like a cripple, doesn’t like having to depend on others and most of all – he’s out to prove that he may still be worth something, even if he is half a man. When his brother dies and he’s able to take his brother’s place in the Avatar program, fly off to the wonder moon of Pandora… well, he signs up. It is better than sitting in a room.
With all the wondrous technology – why is Jake in a wheelchair? Well, because it seems in the future – we still have economics, we apparently never fixed healthcare properly to where people that need care can get it done without ridiculous financial repercussions. Jake can’t afford to fix his legs, and the fucking government that got the legs fucked didn’t take care of it. So he has to go the corporate route to get adequate Healthcare. Man, can I relate. Instead, he’s had to see the legs wither. The very best effects work on the film are these emaciated dead legs of Jake. Nobody questions them, yet this visual detail tells us everything about Jake.
To watch your own body begin to wither because you’re not capable of financially rescuing your own limbs from atrophy and uselessness, it is a bitter pill to swallow.
By the time Jake awakes within the conscious body of a Hum’vi, a word I’ve created to describe the Human / Na’vi hybrids. A Hum’vi is slightly different from the native Na’vi. They have 5 fingers and 5 toes, the Na’vi don’t. The Na’vi feet kind of remind me of Chimp feet, which probably has to do with the Na’vi being a primarily arboreal critter on Pandora. Anyway, by the time Jake comes to – and he sees toes he can wiggle.
Look, I went over this when I saw this footage at Comic Con. I got excited by just what happened in the lab. However, when Jake busts out of the facility into the poisoned air of Pandora and can breathe without fear of imminent death… and then when he just takes off running.
People in wheelchairs dream of running. Trust me on that. I know I’m a fat geek in a wheelchair, but we all dream of running. This is Jake’s first step towards being intoxicated with his Avatar. Hell, I doubt I’d ever want to wake up if I could have a Na’vi body that was as nimble, fit and amazing as this.
Quickly, we find Jake having a chat with Stephen Lang’s amazing Colonel Miles Quaritch. Quaritch is an ex-Marine, come Corporate hooligan, used by the Corporation to do… well, what mercenaries hired by corporations in places like Iraq do. They do whatever the corporation deems necessary. He’s the type of man that can’t wait to shoot the blue monkeys out of the trees. Lang is a god in this role. The 3 clawed scar raked across his face makes him seem like a African Safari god from the 19th century. The sort of dude that would chest bump Tarzan back in the day.
Of all the films that I can think of – the one this actually reminds me of is TARZAN ESCAPES – the unobtanium at the time was Elephant tusks, the sacred place was the Elephant Graveyard, natives were angered and up in arms. Comparisons are legion when it comes to this film – because there’s elements from a myriad of materials. Anyone that just dismisses this as DANCES WITH WOLVES in space… really has a lazy mind. If you’re stuck on Indians – think Malick’s NEW WORLD or Richard Harris in A MAN CALLED HORSE – and a little of Dustin Hoffman in LITTLE BIG MAN. This film has elements from dozens of films. What I love, is that I’ve never seen it put together quite so.
Sure, Neo plugged in and fought in a fantastical version of our world. But when he woke up, he was still Neo, just with a better haircut and sharper clothes. Well, here – Jake’s Hum’vi is pretty amazing. This ‘avatar’ mirrors the personality that we gather from Jake’s rather quiet and unexpressive character. That isn’t a swipe at Sam Worthington – to me, he is 100% wholly believable in every second of the character. That he is MORE expressive in Hum’vi form is merely because he has more to react to.
Jake’s human existence, over the course of the film, you can see the effort it takes to pull himself out of the AVATAR machine. Every time he comes out of these ‘dream like’ realities – he’s back in a sterile environment, having to open up his chair, carefully swing his dead sickly legs over the side and back into his chair. The real world sucks for Jake.
That isn’t to say it sucks for everyone in a wheelchair, it is just… for a man like Jake – a true Man of Action – life in a chair can feel like two feet in the grave. As a 4-wheeler myself… I alternate between hating and loving my wheelchair. However, I feel thankful that I live in a world that is as accomadating as possible for my condition – even if the dentist I went to today had painfully inadequate facilities to take care of me and my shattered wisdom tooth.
Now – once in Hum’vi form – Jake not only has a complete body, but a whole new world to take in. His mission is to discover all there is to know about the Na’vi, because the corporation has EXTREME interest in the deposit of unobtanium, beneath their enormous tree. This is a tree that dwarfs the largest buildings we have yet created on Earth. In a world of enormous vegetation, this Tree is king. This has been the generational home for the Na’vi going back untold years.
Left to our imaginations would be Glyphs in the interior documenting their history… but wait. They don’t need that. You see, the Na’vi have a completely alien method to recording history – it doesn’t involve killing trees and grinding it into pulp. It isn’t Blu-ray. It isn’t anything that they or we can see. This planet has an astonishing ecosystem unlike anything we have seen. This planet makes sense in a way that ours doesn’t.
Our planet, ecology and animal life are each retarded by comparison. Here – every Na’vi is born with a biological version of firewire – which allows them to plug and play with their fellow wildlife – but also their trees. And they can store consciousness, histories with a seemingly endless storage capacity. Of course to the corporation and the Jarheads working for the corporation – this just sounds like liberal bullshit. Where’s the proof? Unless you experience it – and at this stage of colonization – we have not yet found a way to digitally tap into this planetary consciousness – but as I was saying, unless you experience it has to sound like the hokum of a thousand other cultures that pointed at territory and screamed out “It Is Sacred!!!” And that has stopped the aggressive culture… when?
Yeah. Same thing here. Economic desire is a hard God to beat.
But what continued to draw me in was Jake’s personal journey. The point where he stops thinking like a human. Or as the Na’vi put it, “cured of his insanity.” Because to the Na’vi – the human culture is insane. Why would you tear into the ground for rocks. Why would you simply not co-exist with this wonderful splendor? Well, you’re dealing with people operating over satellite geo-thermal readings, instead of any aesthetic surface quality.
This film and that world require you to look deeper than that. You can’t just dismiss the visuals, the visuals are KEY to telling the story. Watching the subtleties of Jake Sully’s Hum’vi and Zoe Saldana’s Neytiri… I fall in love. You can see the moments where Neytiri ceases to look at Sully as a chore and is instead looking upon him with respect. You can see the moments where Sully is ashamed of himself and his actions. Me, I love watching Wes Studi’s Eytukan – you read the disgust on his face, and the pride he has in Sully becoming one of the ‘people’ – and then the racist rage that comes with this Dreamwalker mating with Daddy’s little girl.
I love watching Joel Moore’s Norm Spellman… you can tell that here is a geek that studied to be the star, only to watch Jake excel in ways he just wasn’t trained for. I love that what sets Jake apart from the various scientists and soft folks that are a part of the AVATAR program, that it’s a warrior from our world, that breaches the divide. In a way, it reminds me of THEY DIED WITH THEIR BOOTS ON – and the way the Custer story was handled in that 40’s world. Errol Flynn was both friend and enemy to the “indigenous peoples” that he was set to fight.
There’s a lot of Custer here. A lot of LITTLE BIG MAN. When it comes time for Cameron’s version of LITTLE BIG HORN – hold on to your shit, because you’ll want to be constipated. Otherwise… it’ll be 3D in your pants!
This is a film about the early days of colonization. This is not the end, just the next step in the story of Pandora. My faith in our planet being cool enough that we’ll actually see further adventures concerning Pandora is pretty low.
I love the heroic legend this movie creates – about a hero borne a man, but who will die as something else entirely – and possibly live throughout eternity as a legend that saved their planet… or awoke a beast light years away.
For me, the story is great, the setting is amazing, the characters are living a story I’d dream to be a part of – and the filmmaking is, as always, James Cameron at his best. The action, heart and soul are all there. For me, the only moment of lameness is the love scene. I know, I’m a perv, but really? Jim, that’s the best you could do? Let’s see some crazy alien tree sex. OH. Families. Well, they watch Animal Planet MATE WEEK.
AVATAR is unlike anything I’ve seen before, it is a story of heroes, human greed, cultural discovery and a dream of human accomplishment that I have wished my whole life that we as a society would pursue. There are stories like this waiting for us out there. Let’s get started!
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What a douchebag you are, Harry.
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i can live with that but i would still rather read father geek's review
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I can't believe I just wrote that. I didn't love it as much as you, in fact I just "liked" it, but I do admire your passion.
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is the history of human suffering by an aggressor really a liberal rant? Is it conservative doctrine to value commerce over the lives of the rightful owners? Because I thought you conservatives were Christians, that value life above all else. Sorry if I've been misinformed.
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it's very perplexing watching that film play out...and knowing what imperial colonial powers have done. very strange and kinda wonderful experience. i love this putter! preach it cameron!
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I felt his review was spot on. No hype. Just the facts.
AVATAR has alot of amazing aspects. Yet it's not a classic. It's not even better than star trek. The effects are, yes.
Yet the minimal action is also what took me by surprise. -
It is spectacular. A few cliches here and there. But I didn't care. Was totally won over by it. IMAX 3D = awesome. Immersive. Early on in the film Na'vi Jake runs along a log high up in the air and looks over the edge and I felt a bit of vertigo. One of the very few films where I felt transported into the world. The Dark Knight and Master and Commander were 2 others.
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But honestly, it's nice to see some one who still weeps like a little girl that touched the hand of Elvis in the cynical film climate of today.
I'm stoked to be seeing it in 2hrs. -
outside of the magic mushroom crowd.
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Greatest adventure of all time?
Revolutionary? Photo-real ? Game-changer ? hahaha -
...scandals and ethics investigations.Only place to hide in the seven day news cycle...
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I agree with everything
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I've spent the last 3 days reading Avatar reviews. I'm already bored of this film and I haven't even seen it yet. I wanted a Harry review a week ago. Oh well. I'll be checking this little 3-D cartoon out next week when the crowds die down a bit. Terrible midnight screening earnings though. 2 million? It made 10 million LESS than fucking New Moon midnight screenings. Yikes!
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the war on terror. Avatar echos a lot of what happened to Native American when Europeans came to America. Cortez did the same to the Aztects. In both cases, The modern invaders wanted the resources of the local natives. So, it's not some anti-American film.
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Cut to the Holmes review.
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Meh. I wouldn't put too much stock in it underperforming New Moon, which had a ravenous, baked-in fanbase Avatar is a new property. It has to build its audience. It'll still have a big weekend, snowstorm or not, but it'll have to thrive on word of mouth.
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...if you're self aware enough to realize that personal circumstances are causing you to see right past a movie's flaws...that's allowed.Everyone gets to have sentimental favorites.
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So wouldn't that make it anti-Canadian? ;-)
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The Suckerpunch German Zombie WW1 mask Snyder sent you looks pretty cool on your amazingly crowded desk
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This is one of the better defenses of the storyline I have read, Harry. A number of fantastic movies, such as Star Trek and The Dark Knight, are an interesting compilation of mini-stories. Avatar is simply one BIG ASS story, and I'm surprised to see so many think that they should get hooked up over it.
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i went to see this movie at the IMAX in London Waterloo yesterday afternoon, and again today in 'standard' 3D. I haven't stopped thinking about it for a waking second since. Up until this point my favourite movies were 'The Road Warrior', 'Blade Runner', '2001', 'Alien/s', 'The Thing'. Now i've got to add this baby and I'm not sure where in the list it should go... I felt genuinely confused on emerging from the IMAX yesterday...a little bit of the ole 1977 vibe. I'm 40 btw. Extraordinary film, feels like some benign new religion...
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about some soap opera. My friend tried telling me how the second Twilight was so much better than the first because of blah, blah. I just said ok. They don't movies like we do.
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I'm not even half way through this and I've already found like 4 sentences that make absolutely no sense.
C'mon man... -
Has to make it political. Seriously, can you people just get off it already, for fucks sake. Great movie BTW. Fucking awesome!
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Thanks.
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Dec 18, 2009 7:27:36 PM CST
Nice review, Harry. It really made me re-think the film.
by the reluctant austinite
I think every review of "Avatar" on AICN is correct in its own way, but Harry gave me a perspective I hadn't thought of. Here's an idea that popped into my head while watching the movie: If you ever wondered what the modern adaption of the unmade Willis O'Brien/Ray Harryhausen project, "War Eagles", about Nazis VS giant eagle riders might have looked like---well, here it is!
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Despite the great, creamy center, this review could use an edit.
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I can see, is, if the Na'vi know that humans are 'dressing up' as their own people, then why would they be more willing to trust them. Wouldn't the fact that they are human inside and have different digits be enough of a distrust. I don't get it. On a side note, it's funny how almost all the other critics pan the story, but, it's headgeek's favorite thing. Nice, Harry.
And kudos, there weren't nearly as many errors this time, considering the length of the review. Somebody get you an editor for Christmas? -
A man goes on a journey or a stranger comes to town.
And both of these are the inverse of the other. If you know what I mean. -
...in THE MATRIX, your consciousness is downloaded into a more pleasant, but ultimately artificial and meaningless reality.In AVATAR you get to escape a meaningless reality of broken bodies and gray corridors and find fulfillment by downloading into a heightened, more beautiful, and ultimately more fulfilling reality.The two movies seem to be saying opposite things about life, escapism, and the pursuit of a meaningful life.
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any problems with the 3-d .. also did you see in Imax..
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for this and some people have mentioned problems in real d with their glasses..not so much though in Imax..
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Dec 18, 2009 7:38:28 PM CST
"Because I thought you conservatives were Christians, that value
by cylon_conspiracy
Lol, Harry. You have been misinformed."You liberals" sure love a stereotype, that we're all jesus freaks. Not all conservatives are christian, or even religious.
The conservative ideals are not about Jesus, although there are a few nuts who think it is, and think they speak for all of us. Conservatives are just about small government, and personal liberty. -
Yes, it's part Tarzan, Matrix, Dances With Wolves, Apacalypto, Jurrasic Park, Titanic, Aliens, Star Wars, etc. And it's all Avatar! I enjoyed every digital 3D moment of it. James Cameron is a great filmmaker and I will see Avatar again without the 3D glasses just to compare the experience. Spielberg said after he screened Avatar on the Fox lot that the last time he felt this way after seeing a movie was when he saw Star Wars...I think Avatar is that good! Ain't it cool? Hell, yes!
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I didn't care one iota for any character in this movie. I didn't care if the ten foot tall blue people lived or died. And the pity is, I wanted to care, but this movie just didn't give me enough to care. It's an amazing thing to look at to be sure but for me, the forest was the best character in the movie.
And the fact that every major event in the movie is telegraphed also annoyed the heck out of me too. -
So let me get this straight... the best part of the movie for you was the part that they obviously spent the absolute least amount of time and effort on? Retard.Fucking RETARD.
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...we give you lots of shit, but it's always nice to hear some genuine love of movies for their own sake. Well done sir, this is the review that made me want to see HOW Cameron used this story.
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...sloppy, poopy, butt sex. Your politics will not save you. You will die alone either way.
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Liberals= what...Jews,Atheists??
Harry, I refuse to believe you are such a one dimensional thinker.
Yet you challenge that belief regularly. -
to oppress their indigenous peoples and rape their worlds for our resources, then the many movies like this have had NO IMPACT on our social or moral development. In short the movie shows its own irrelevance and the uselessness of presenting its theme.
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a capital NERD. haha. "He has a lot of influence over males..." Nah, never, nada influence. Harry doesn't have influence over me.
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I cannot believe that Harry says he loves this movie because of the story. COME ON! Just be honest! It is the effects. Thats all it could be. Because every other aspect of this movie was just horrible. I MEAN HORRIBLE. TERRIBLE ACTING. HORRIBLE DIALOGUE. ONE OF THE MOST BORING, SELF IMPORTANT, PREDICTABLE STORIES I HAVE EVER SEEN. All kinds of things were forced upon me that didn't make sense. All kinds of characters say all kinds of cheeeeesy things, "Get some". The Na'vi' have the crappiest Hallmark(the card company) religion of all time. It would even make Oprah cringe. Oh my gosh. The Ballad at the end felt so forced I could just die. DIE! Worst of all though was that I was really a believer going into this and thought it would be spectacular. Yet worse than the worst, I was actually marveling for the first hour. However, the second hour had just so MANY BIG GLARING CONSTANT PROBLEMS that I could not enjoy the visual wonder anymore. Instead. I was left with the last 40 minutes to see an epic, beautifully shot battle that I didn't care about AT ALL! Why? Because I just didn't care about any of the characters or the OBVIOUS STORY that was being weaved together. In other words one of the biggest let downs in my moviegoing history. I will gladly take Episode 1 20 times before I take this collossal failure. At least Lucas knows how to make me surprised with a story when it unfolds unlike the most generic story ever told - AVATAR.
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Harry knows LESS about politics than he does about film. Go eat yourself into an early grave.
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That's great, Harry. One more cock to add to the list of cocks you so-gladly continue to suck! But watch out 'cause Sly might get a little jealous.
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...but mostly the Appalachian trail.
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except bureaucrats still wear ties. And in fact every one dress the way they did 150 years before. This would be like Neil Armstrong putting on his powdered wig to meet the president after returning from the moon.
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This Avatar discussion is getting riDICUlously intense. I'm betting this movie is actually pretty good...
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And it's really close to being very well written. Close, I say. But it really does have the feeling of someone who waited to read a bunch of other reviews and talkbacks first, then went ahead and contradicted, made apologies for, or aggrandized all the things most people disliked most. Still, I am genuinely happy you liked it as my tastes have often fallen in line with yours over the years I've been frequenting the site (even they are crazed hyperbole). As I've been saying in the last couple reviews: done fighting about it, I'm walking the middle line until Monday when I see it in IMAX 3D. Which, along with digital 3D, is largely where it played last night for anybody who thought the box office numbers were small. It didn't open on 7000 screens like the last HP or Twilight.
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....even if your reviews are often crazed hyperbole. Says they guy whose been giving you shit about grammar.
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were the party that supported slavery and segregation, wasn't until around the time of The New Deal that blacks became democrats, but southern democratic leaders were the most vehemently racist people there were. So no, conservatives aren't all about commerce over human life. Never have been, they just became too "hands off" on race issues while Democrats tried harder to appeal to minority voters.
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Aahahaahaahahahaaa! Seriously, it's actually gotten better since reviews started going up and people have actually seen it.
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...places on most issues over the years. Comparing either party of 100 years ago to the same party or the other party today is pointless.
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I was responding to Harry's implication that conservative doctrine is about commerce over human life.. 100 (more like 60) years ago still applies if you're going to go after the "doctrine" itself.
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... and that my friends, was TRIPE. Period.Only Star Wars geeks and Trekkies will like this movie. Bunch of fags.
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...on colonialism, say Independence Day in reverse. See, the humans in this were a lot better than those aliens. Better than the ones in Mars Attacks or War of the Worlds, too. See, we're not so bad fellas. We're compassionate colonialists.
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Forget 100 years ago. Today's modern liberal was not the liberal of say... JFK's era. I would have been considered a JFK Democrat back in the day. Today that classifies me as 'right wing'.
Irony can be a funny thing.
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all of the reviews of this flick on aicn have been great...even Beaks. AVATAR is by far my favourite film of this year, its flat out fucking magical.
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I hardly ever post here (see the vile, never ending hatred of some of the other Avatar talkbacks as one example of why, seriously people you need to calm yourselves down) but just wanted to say great review Harry I totally agree. An amazing experience, ill be seeing it again tomorrow.
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we didn't have to hear about harry's childhood. by the way does anyone else think harry knowles sounds like a terrible pituitary disorder? i'd love to go to the pool party but i'm a little ashamed of my harry knowles.
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but if you have to sleep for years to get to Pandora, will they make it back in time with the Unobtainium before Earth turns all Mad Max-y?
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...I probably would have been a conservative in the past, but "conservatives" all sound like a bunch of fanatical religious nut jobs who want to try to remake the world in America's image and tell people what they can and can't do in the privacy of their own homes (especially if it involves pink parts).I got pushed the other way, but I know what you're saying...
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But i'm curious...what's your favorite sci fi movie?
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JFK's Era? Try in 2000. Nowadays, you can be liberal on every single social issue and an athiest, but but if you're conservative about one economic policy, you pretty much are a member of Westboro Baptist Church. Hell, look at what's happening to Lieberman.
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...I don't much want to get into politics here, but what you have posted is simply not true, unless you are speaking purely of social wedge issues. The fundamental stance on which such a thing (unless you are simply a social conservative) is decided is the relationship between government and business. Over the last thirty years both conservatives and "liberals" have been working together to change this relationship in a way that would have been hateful to Kennedy, as well as either of the Roosevelts but especially Teddy.
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Cameron hates humans and techology and corporations are evil. RUN FOR YOUR FUCKING LIVES!
Just shut the fuck up about politics. Nobody gives a fuck what you think or what your political persuation is.
Maybe next time Cameron can make a movie more in tune with your political views. Maybe then you can watch it without getting so incredibly offended. Tools.
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Honestly thought you may have just given up work.
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Glad you loved it for many of the same reasons that I did, Harry. I do feel sorry for those who don't. They are missing the forest for the trees, lol
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I thought this site had forgotten about the movie. I haven't seen any reviews of this movie on here for at least an hour.
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Nobody is saying that Cameron insulted their political beliefs, the issue here is with Harry's review and when he brings in politics, he has no clue what he's talking about. Just go dig for his (positive) review of Matrix Revolutions, where he glowingly compared Bin Laden to Neo, as evidence that the dude has no clue. This is speaking as someone who has voted democratic his entire life (although I don't like the health care bill in its current form, so I'm pretty much Hitler).
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Or is it still DISTRICT 9??
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Dec 18, 2009 8:31:08 PM CST
How does Spielberg come back after seeing AVATAR?
by bastard_in_a_blanket
I saw AVATAR today and it overtook JURASSIC PARK as the greatest movie experience of my life. It's much more than a film, it's an experience, and Steven Spielberg knows this, so I wonder how he'll he react after seeing AVATAR because I can bet any money Spielberg will be like Angier when saw Borden's Transported Man trick in THE PRESTIGE, only less obesessive and more friendly feelings to James Cameron's benchmark film.
I think Steven Spielberg is the only man who could if, over a time and mega budget could do something like AVATAR, and possibly Peter Jackson. I just wonder what project it would be, though?
I really, really hope he makes INTERSTELLAR, even it it's not as a big as AVATAR, the premise is. -
But I do believe that is a wild mis characterization but I understand...I would be standing with you if I thought that was the case.
The second the govt tells me or anyone what to in the privacy of their own home I will join you. You know, like smoking or what types of light bulbs to use. -
Dec 18, 2009 8:33:26 PM CST
The only thing that I was disappointed about was...
by bastard_in_a_blanket
... that future Earth was cut from the film and we never got to see the moon spiderwebbed by lights. That was one of the things that intrigued over the past few years of waiting fot AVATAR - James Cameron's AVATAR future Earth.
Oh well, AVATAR is a truly great film that lives up to, and surpasses the hype.
Extraordinary piece of work. -
Loved the look ,and story though predictable, I found myself surprisingly in a moral quandary; I am a military man myself, at times I rooted for the Earth troops, even to the end, does that make me evil? or just human? without being in that situation myself? I am left with nothing but questions
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The first thing I thought is that I know just as many religious folk (Christian, Catholic, Mormon and Jew) who consider themselves liberals as they do conservatives. I would say it's just about a 50/50 split for me these days. My second thought was that politics has become so closeminded and issue related as to instantly pigeonhole a person as one of the other based on their views of one single issue. Which is of course also part of why the government in the states can't get shit done anymore. Everything is I feel this way on this issue or that, so I'm on that side of the room. And that side of the room refuses to budge on the principal of being defined in that way. It's just ridiculous. There can be, and often is, a HUGE gray area in the middle. A great many people these days are not truly a liberal OR a conservative. Rather, they something else altogether based on a combination of different ideas and feelings about whats going on in the world. But, unfortunately, if you speak out on one of those hot button topics that the "conservatives" don't agree with, you're immediately branded a "liberal". Of course it just as easily goes the other direction as well. But I'm purposely leaving out the issues so we can't all put each other in nice, neat rows. "You can't have any meat if you don't eat your pudding!"
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I hate that I have to say that, though.
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I don't much want to go there either. Don't have the energy and I'm heading to a dinner date in mere moments.
I was just recently reading an old JFK speech and was struck by his stance on low taxation. He fought for tax breaks. In this particular speech he was asking for an 11 billion dollar(?) tax cut which at the time must have been fairly significant. No way a modern day liberal goes down that road.
Gotta run. Thanks for the post. -
Though, I admit still entertaining. When they made out under the Tree of Souls, however, I expected Neytiri to break out in a Navi version of "Colors of the Wind."
Can you act like a ten foot tall Navi/Can you be as bioluminescent as our skin...
You get the idea. -
It's all about the special effects. Story be damned.
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at a resort on the beack. it's 82 degrees. the fan in my bedroom has a remote control.this does not relate to Avatar in any way, but I just thought you all should know.
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Well, we could certainly use those in real life! and the gyro-copter? Halo looking things
Army needs that stuff, good ideas for military tech comes from Cameron's mind routinely -
...is because the current Republican party seems anything but conservative. Cool if you're old school, but the crazies seem to have hijacked the party for the foreseeable future.But don't worry, I'm pretty liberal, but the current Democratic party is a bunch of incompetent leaky pussies...so we're probably even.
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Am I the only one that was bugged that this was essentially the same plot as "Star Trek: Insurrection," the worst of all the Trek movies?
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...to smoke pot in your own home and have sex with and marry anybody you choose...that's pretty cool, right?
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Hoestly thats a bit fucked up. I too have served my country and i love the gung-ho stuff the humans did in the movie. However if this had been a real situation i couldnt in good faith have followed orders to attack the natives. It is possible though that i would have acted in a similar manner if i had been attached to a mercenary outfit for a long time. With all the facts at hand i certainely wouldnt have.
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Saw it today. I thought the film was pretty good, but not mind blowing and amazing that most are making it out to be. I thought the special effects, cinematography, and the action scenes were impressive, but I thought the story and the acting could be improved.
You gotta admit that it did feel like a live action video game. It was too Terminator and too Transformers. Plus, Cameron making the Na'vi's look like Indians?
When Titanic came out, everyone gave it great reviews. Now everyone is hating on it since it's the no. 1 movie in the world. The same would happen to "Avatar" ten years from now, people would get tired of it fast.
Don't get me wrong, "Avatar" was good, but I didn't have that thrill like most people.
"Avatar" will not be a Best Picture winner for the Oscars, but it will indeed win for Best Special effects and Cinematography, hands down. Is the film worthy for every other category? No.
I thought "District 9" was better. -
But given polls and surveys done it is clear that the fundamentalist christians, i.e. have strong view on homosexuality, abortion, sex education tend to vote republican.
It has been examined by more politically astute people than myself that it was the support of the more fundamentalist christians that got bush 2 over the line.
To Harry's point, religion is made up by humans , religions themselves are therefore full of contradictions and we can add blatant hypocrisy as another clear human trait in our history -
like stuffing, is EVIL! and i'm still waiting for the apology for 'celine dion'... and don't forget low-flow toilets, showerheads, etc.
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my point exactly, we tend more to think of our buddies next to us, and the conflict before us rather than the "big" picture; unless I was placed in similar circumstances as the "lucky" Marine/alien hybrid, I am going to have to say I would in all likely hood side against the Navi, and do my best to "complete the mission" so again, this movie left me with a moral quandary and gives me something to ponder...
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The old "rich girl-poor guy" routine comes from as far as Roman Holiday and beyond, all the way through Alladin and keeps going.
I'm seeing this baby tomorrow, and I'm pretty sure I'll have a hell of a better time than that schmoopi-schmoopi-sink-already-motherfucker boring piece of masterfully produced shit. -
...download into you? I'm neat, quiet, bookish, and fit....and I try to leave all things in better shape than I found them...
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who didn't see "I love Avatar" coming like 5 years ago?
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it is also likely that in case of the pilot turning against her own, similar decisions can be reached even now in war and home fronts; so Movie equals things to think about; that should make Cameron Proud as this is just a bonus effect that may not have been intended
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if you leave me fit, you can enter me any way you want to! (I need to lose pounds big time)
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I am not Jorge Garcia
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is made up by humans. and even some of that is suspect
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than the critics are (rottentomatoes at 83%, 94% for top critics) or am sure the general public will be.
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...I just chocked on a brussel sprout. Good one.
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Now Biff, don't con me!
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...GET THE FUCK OFF AINTITCOOLNEWS RIGHT NOW...YOU ARE IN HAWAII...WHAT THE FUCK??!!
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seriously. frank is proud to say that he can, and does, co-exist with rocks
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Dec 18, 2009 8:58:52 PM CST
James Cameron didn't try to write a fucking novel
by anything but tangerines
He made a 3d sci fi action flick. What is this hullabaloo over "story"?
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Completely correct for the most part. But I live in the Bay Area in California, where some of those issue lines definitely get blurred, regardless of chosen faith.
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What ever happened to that guy?
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Dec 18, 2009 9:00:51 PM CST
Harry is reading way too much into this film's storytelling...
by shadow16nh
The criticisms regarding the weak characters (Zoe Saldana's Navi princess excluded), dialogue (the biggest offender in this movie; there is rarely anything said by any given character that you wouldn't be able to predict, in addition to a handful of groaners)and story are all valid, but so are the loads of praise heaped on the intricate ecosystem and absolutely unmatched CGI / use of 3D. That could make it sound like a shallow film but as an experience, it's not. As far as artful and exhilarating special effects go, Avatar has no peers; it becomes obvious that there hasn't been anything like this before. I found myself reacting emotionally to the wonders Jake is presented with his first night alone on Pandora. The other elements are disappointingly serviceable, and can only be overlooked because it all becomes so increasingly and vividly real as the movie progresses. MUST see in 3D, of course. The visit to Pandora does stay with me, even if the storytelling doesn't.
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Seriously! I mean, shit - it's sunset in Hawaii right now! I lived there and never got tired of that place, but I guess it's possible.
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...is they don't take into account the complaints a reviewer may have had with the film. If a bunch of people give it a B based on how incredible it looks, but all of them were stopped short of giving it an A because the dialogue is weak sauce, you won't get that in an aggregate. But again, I'm not shitting on an average B grade, which seems to be what it's getting (at least) across the board.
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Dec 18, 2009 9:10:47 PM CST
you try getting a girl ready to leave in less than an hour!
by badmrwonka
we just got here, I dropped my stuff down, and went to check my internet before we go buy groceries for the week. girls take forever, what can I say?
oh, and best trade-off ever? I get to see Avatar on Tuesday night, but I have to look at volcanic rock all day beforehand. -
Dec 18, 2009 9:10:56 PM CST
I don't even think some critics even saw the movie, really
by anything but tangerines
It's as if instead of a ticket, the kid in the box office gave them the script, and they just went home to read it and flame it. Either that or their 3D glasses were opaque. Where do such tightasses squeeze out from?
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That's funny because it seemed like I had seen it ALL before. From the story to the undersea influences on the flora and fauna ("gill holes" on the animals) to the ships and hardware that looked like they were reused Aliens props - EVERYTHING in this film looked a little familiar. Still, the level of execution was astounding (I haven't wondered how they did something in the movies for years), and props to Cameron for putting together action sequences that can actually be followed. Still, I can't help but think this film won't be as highly regarded once the level of the effects is surpassed by other films in the coming years.
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...Blade Runner. Not into the soft Disney shit like Star Wars.
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You HAVE to buy new ones every time? Then they encourage you to recycle them where they're repackaged and sold back to us AGAIN? Little pissed off about that.
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I was afraid that you weren't going to hit the point that made the film for me, but near the end of the review - you did. The interactions between Jake and Neytiri was really what sold the film for me. The power of the emotional display that these characters had between each other really brought the film together. The subtleties in their faces really compelled the message Cameron was trying to bring across in the script. I don't know if they did this, but they could improve on the nonverbal behaviors between all of the Na'vi characters, beyond what the actors were trying to display. Anyways - Thanks for pointing that out... I'm glad someone did.
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It's just that we've seen it A HUNDRED TIMES ALREADY. Same problem as Cinderella Man and Walk The Line. Both very well made, but we've seen the same formula played out over and over. Nothing is at all surprising except for the imagery, which is admittedly amazing.
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It's just that we've seen it A HUNDRED TIMES ALREADY. Same problem as Cinderella Man and Walk The Line. Both very well made, but we've seen the same formula played out over and over. Nothing is at all surprising except for the imagery, which is admittedly amazing.
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I doubt that the extra ticket cost is a result of the cheap ass plastic sunglasses they give out. Could it be the dual projectors and specialized screen material?
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And generally of lower intelligence?
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And generally so judgmental?
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lets not forget the facial expression motion capture that they created for this flick, gave the subtleties that CGI was missing
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People can't really have fun at movies anymore. This is one of those movies were you sit back and enjoy the show. If I wanted a character piece, I would pop in my There Will Be Blood blueray. The movie has been sold as a spectacle not a character piece. There is no false advertising.
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How much longer can everyone really take the bad human theme. Guess when it stops making money? And by bad human obviously I mean the general whole race kinda stance.....guess it's almost as funny as how people believe they can shape evolution.....especially those that preach one child families ....
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Finger pointing and name calling never gets anything done, nor does it REALLY prove any point other than the fact that you know how to point fingers and call each other names. Siiiigh. Me go now. Read book. Ugh.
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escapes you
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Dec 18, 2009 9:23:08 PM CST
Far right and Far left people are idiots that get in....
by snakecharmer
the way of anything getting done. Democracy functions in the middle.
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bingo
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Well, only the first tomorrow, early show. I am very excited. Then I can actually read whole reviews instead of the first sentence of every fifth paragraph in them.
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In some ways AVATAR is like WAR OF THE WORLDS (speaking mostly of the book) with the roles reversed. Aliens (us) invade another world (Pandora) because they covet resources. Although technically superior to the indigenous population the invaders are eventually defeated by Mother Nature. Of course, HGW used WoW as an analogy for wickedness of colonialism...
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Dec 18, 2009 9:29:17 PM CST
by all logic, the bad ass colornel with the scars shoulda died h
by magic rat
really...if the air is poisonous, then how come he got scraped on his face (which must have went through his mask) and exposed him to the atmosphere - and shoulda killed him. Really, dude shouldn't have lasted day one - not from the scar - but from the atmosphere that he was exposed to. I know he held his beath in a few scenes in Avatar, but he also wasn't clawed in the face by whatever it was that did that. Really poor job of explaining that scar.
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the general public who's going in unaware of what a awaits them are going to be in awe on the images on screen. My brother took his girl and she was barely aware of the film. She kept saying wow.
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Thanks to the exponential advances in Photovoltaic Solar panels we'll be completely energy independent within the next 50 years, some say sooner. Unlike thermal solar panels that collect heat, the Photovoltaic solar panels converts light photons into electrons. The efficacy of this technology is increasing by 50% a year. The future is nothing to fear fortunately.
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Dec 18, 2009 9:33:47 PM CST
yeah, yeah, it's a Movie that's killing America and you aren't C
by g100
Those pitiful people who can't handle a Movie without breaking it down into their own paranoid chunks of what they imagine is propaganda should just stop whining or just stop watching movies.
The world isn't all about your pathetic culture war and desperate attempt to score meaningless partisan points in the ever more ludicrous small minded entrenchment of fringe lunatics who get offended if the world is portrayed in any manner other than how they can only see it from their narrow minded viewpoint.
Just keep watching FOX 24/7 and you will never be challenged or upset again. You can also leave the rest of us to enjoy Movies in peace.
Avatar sounds good. It will have some great moments in it. I'm eager to see it. No, it isn't the second coming and Cameron DID overdo the hype but that doesn't mean it can't be a really enjoyable movie. -
Dec 18, 2009 9:40:44 PM CST
It's amazing that everything spirals to ignorant political rants
by superxy
So to cure the ignorance here are some facts. Classical republicans, like Jefferson and Lincoln are not the same as modern republicans. The idea that because GOP a hundred plus years ago was anti-slavery does not connect it to modern politics. Liberal policy is this: a stance that government must make proactive moves to prevent negative results on a society of citizens. Conservative policy is that of a reactive system. It believes that individual people have the responsibility to make intelligent choices with limited interference from government. Only when things go wrong would government get involved in a conservative system. The problem that no one here seems to recognize, is that over the last decade the definition of conservative policy has changed. A small faction of extremist Christians have taken over. Additionally, they have taken an extreme selective proactive stance. That means they are open to government getting involved, but generally only in situations where the involvement favors positive outcomes to a large conglomerate rather than to an individual citizen. The terms "liberal" and "conservative" are misnomers in modern politics. The reality is that the Republican party of the last decade has employed more "liberal" strategies about policy making than the Democrat party. But, coming to a website and lashing out with no ambition but to drive people further apart doesn't really help either ideology or political base. Those of you who are complaining about political stances without actually understanding them need to... Grow up. Work together. Stop being a bitch. It's Harry's website not yours. If you want to be a whiny bitch because you don't agree with him, then go somewhere else instead of looking for an opportunity to be a bitch, Bitch. You make the talk-backs terrible.
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The irony of Murdoch's FOX Movies releasing this supposed "liberal rant" won't be lost on some.
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And the movie rocked. Made me feel like the four year old kid in a theater in 1980 watching Empire Strikes Back. It was my first movie, and the first time I got taken in by a world that was created with the ambition of transporting us to another place. It made me a life-long lover of film, and Avatar reminded me why.
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Just watched Avatar in IMAX. Too much little empathy and connection with almost everybody and everything in it. And predictable as hell. Since T1, loved every Cameron's movie, yep. But, this time, waited 10 years plus only to discover that ALIENS is still his best movie and script... I felt every death in ALIENS. Even the non-romance between Hicks and Ripley in the Special Edition was more moving and convincing. Even the hardware was way cooler just because...cool military bad-asses were riding in it, not zero-personality evil mercs (where´s Martin Keamy when we need him, heh). And, Powerloader forever: for real, no CG "perfection"... And WTF Ben Afleck (or his sleepy twin brother, heh) was doing in this movie?... Ok, I liked the avatars playing basketball, heh. And Michelle and Sigourney (ok, her avatar!) were foxy... About the new performance-capture technology... Can't wait to see Arnie, Stallone and Bruce in their prime doing together a hardcore sci-fi military action movie, heh. Or Zack Snyder using it in his version of Heavy Metal or Dark Knight Returns, heh. Well, sigh.I'm gonna give another try, Jimboy, of course.Cheers.
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Well, I'm not sure where you're seeing it, but I've seen "Real 3D" movies before, and every time we get charged $5 each for the glasses. Nothing unique to Avatar, Real 3D has been around for a while now.
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Who gives a fuck what the party was called. You so called tolerant Southern Democrats defected from the party after the civil rights act was passed. The same Southern Confederate Flag waving Nazi's that use to run the Democratic Party converted into Republicans and Dixie-crats. If you look at the US where slavery was allowed, it's the same states that overwhelmingly vote Republican today. I can't believe who fucking stupid conservatives are when they try claim that conservatives were against slavery. It was the North Eastern Liberals that was against the slavery, the same tree huggers you conservatives despise today.
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and repeatedly, and even from the same director. All this expense and technology devoted to such a familiar, worn premise.But it will be hailed as some kind of original work of genius, even though many people should be getting royalties from it who aren't. Just from what I've seen online, I'll add Wendy Pini to that list.
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It's not very often that a film like this comes out. And for me the last ones that came close were Contact and The Abyss. I don't know if I'll be able to save up for a 3D tv in time for the Blue Ray release buy I'm damn sure going to try cause this is meant to be experienced in 3D.
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Just wanted to point out that nowhere in the film is it stated that earth is running out of energy resources and that the unobtanium has anything to do with energy issues. It's just very valuable (though inflation for over 140 years might make 20 million a kilo less impressive than it would be today!)
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That will ultimately determine if this is a classic.
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I would say that this film's message, which it clearly has, is that there are 2 types of people... those who respect life and those who respect their selfish ambitions. I don't think that's a liberal position. I grew up conservative home and I'm a liberal as an adult. This has nothing to do with American politics. It's about a personal choice about what's important to you.
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Is in heaven on earth enjoying the hell out of this film. No ifs buts or ands about that.
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before Harry even saw the movie. There's no way in hell it was gonna be anything but glowing considering the slathering Avatar has been given on this sight for 5 years now.
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Wow antonphd, a true geek reference! Hadn't thought of that one at all, but it's right on the money.
This flick fucking rocked the IMAX i saw it at. The audience was obviously into it. Laughing at some of the few zingers, even groaning at the clunkers, but clearly along for the ride. -
Ooops, it was you who noted Mrs. Pini. Sorry for letting antonphd get all the credit!
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...and there has been a couple, really surprise me. But they also get my expectations up a little. It's very nearly my favorite thing on earth. : )
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...for perfectly proving my point.
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Dec 18, 2009 10:12:48 PM CST
Anybody else think "Iron Man 2" looks like "Rocky III"?
by the reluctant austinite
The "Iron Man 2" trailer = "Rocky III"! I was just watching that "Iron Man 2" trailer again and realized that it's basically "Rocky III"! Stark is recently victorious and now is a superstar of all media, but his arrogance and overconfidence will be his undoing. Rourke's character is basically Clubber Lang, a hungry thug from the rough and dirty streets who prepares for battle in dirty garages, not in billion dollar gyms like Stark. He's going to "bust you up" when he gets ahold of spoiled Stark. Instead of Apollo Creed helping Rocky get his head and body back together, we get Rhodes doing the same thing so they "can win it back together". I love it! This film, truly, has the eye of the tiger.
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Misinformed? No - you just made an ASSUMPTION: I.E., that conservatives are Christian - period. That may be true of most, but to assume it to be true of ALL? Frankly, that doesn't sound very open-minded, which is what I've read that many (though I'm not assuming all) of you liberals (which you've called yourself in the past) claim to be.
But don't worry. You haven't made an ass out of yourself AND us conservatives. In any case, you have a right to your opinion, even if it's different than mine - even if it's not conservative. Actually, as I value the two-party system - inherently adversarial and virtually impossible in a socialist / Communist society (sure, it exists, but barely - I mean, Canada??? Really...) - my only regret is that you aren't MORE adamant about your beliefs and, by extension, unapologetic and not so quick to take offense at being confronted with facts about them. If you like the movie, okay. If you WANT movies to be liberal, fine - just don't take so much offense when someone calls it like it is. If anything, you're only making the conservative stance seem stronger. At least we're not so apologetic. At least, when Conservatives and Republicans had the presidency and the majority, they weren't virtually railroaded 6 months into their stint because their own party couldn't agree upon how to circumvent the Constitution so as to make Obama appear like the almost godlike, progressive, second-coming President they want him to be (an assumption, but barely - two plays at this game). Of course, you could argue that it was because Republicans / Conservatives ignored the law, Congressional oversight and all forms of accountability that they succeeded at all, but in the end, it's immaterial. SuperXY's post about the difference between past and present conservatism is right. It's too bad he / she doesn't apply the same analysis to liberalism - which in Kennedy's day fought Communism, thus STARTING the actual war in Vietnam along with any "conservatives" that may have drummed to the same beat, instead of embracing subtly disguised forms of it - but the post is still sound. Now, the Democrats are, for the most part, legally pushing their own unconstitutional policies and taking shortcuts to get their legislation passed (like forcing the House to pass a bill it didn't read - shortcuts which aren't working) and make the Obama presidency the veritable godhood they want everyone to remember it being. 'Trouble is, a few at the top have underestimated the intelligence of the Democratic party as a whole, which KNOWS that things like socialist healthcare and the complete dismantling of private insurance is - while attractive in the same way as, say, everyone on Earth winning the lottery - by its very definition, unconstitutional and, in the long run, very destructive. The proof is in the pudding. One month, they call it a "government option," then only when the measure is dead does a member of the party declare the inevitable end of private insurance because it's no longer needed - a clear sign of their true intentions, I think. The only difference between the two parties nowadays, really, is who lies the best. Neither conclusion would offend me.
And that brings me back to my original point, Harry. That you take offense to being called liberal - when you've described yourself in the past as just that - is ridiculous and only hurts your own agenda. It is made worse by your assumption / implication about Conservatives being Christians, which is as good as saying ALL Conservatives are Christians.
One more thing... as for "Corporations," that's another assumption. Do you know what a corporation is? It's not inherently evil (do liberals believe in actual evil, or is it only a loosely-used adjective applied to certain white men and corporations?). Actually, it isn't even a physical entity! And, believe it or not, guess who runs corporations - HUMANS! Yeah! Not monkeys or lemurs or little red demons. Human beings that need money just as much as you - that need natural resources every bit as much as the most liberal pot-smoking progressive and that do, on occasion, lie and cheat in ways very similar to the approach recently used by Republicans during the Bush Administration and, now, by those in the Obama Administration to push socialized healthcare / health insurance and will be used to push other so-called "progressive" policies. It's my guess that many of them have not only smoked pot before, but continue to do so now to deal with the pressures of corporate life.
Anyhow, relax, Harry. If you're right, the universe will unfold as it should - the liberal way. Right? Otherwise, great site. Kudos, though I think I'll skip "Avatar," thanks. - J... -
marine: "there can be no peaceful resolution", says it (or words to that effect and thus is the epitome of evil.
Hum'vi: "there can be no peace with the other side" ... never actually says it, but acts as if it is a given and gets a moral pass?
In the second half, I found myself constantly rolling my eyes ( even though I'm sympathetic to the anti-imperialistic political point, I don't believe in the "noble savage" who lives in perfect harmony with nature and is divinely vindicated by winning a miraculous military victory ). Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the movie, but personally I would have preferred watching another hour or two of fantasy National Geographic special. -
Of course, FDR's policies were liberal and, sometimes, socialist. When I say "fought Communism," I mean more than just starting the Vietnam war. I mean not shaking hands and praising idiots like Venazuela's President (Dictator) Hugo Chavez the way Obama did just a few months ago - now declared by Chavez to be undeserving of his Nobel Peace Prize because of Chavez' latest conspiracy theory about U.S. military imperialism - as if the U.S. military is even strong enough after Bush to SUCCESSFULLY launch such campaigns even if anyone wanted them to! LOL
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... after all the personal love Cameron has been giving him and the site. Sorry bud, i still love ya but i'm not even going to read this.
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I have tickets for 3:20 tomorrow in Toronto. Can anyone say how early we should like up to get good seats?
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Is this not a sequel to Titanic?
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an hour early? or closer to two hours?
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LOL, so all Christians are definitely NOT conservatives. With that said, can't wait to see this movie tomorrow in IMAX!! ...oh and with politics, sure hope these Democrats get their heads out of their asses and listen to the freaking ppl! ... what morons!
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If you see it on a regular screen, there's no lineup at all ... there were hardly 30 people in an huge almost-empty screening I saw this evening. I'd have shown up late if I'd known there were going to be 10 minutes of ads before we even got to the trailers.
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And since there are so few of these screens I guess that means we should probably get there at least 2 hours before. If not earlier.
Goddamn. -
This film was GREAT
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really..between the pair of them what haven't they fucked up? All thats left is for them to make cheap retarded comments about liberals. Bring it on cocksuckers.
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There was only about 25 people in the theater I saw it in. The movie looked great but the story wasn't any good.
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Dec 18, 2009 10:58:40 PM CST
HEY, RIGHT WINGERS, EAT SHIT YOU FUCKING MONSTERS.....
by tehcreepythinman
You know why fucking asswipes like you come bitch about movies like Avatar, which are pro-environment/pro-spiritualism/pro-peace etc…, is because you are soulless monsters that would turn the world into a graveyard if you had half a chance. I’m surprised that you fucking bastards don’t bitch about Luke blowing up the Death Star you fucking war mongering fascist cocksuckers. You hate Avatar because it’s a parable about imperialism which even you, with your pea sized brain, recognize that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA has been engaging in your illegal and murderous occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, two countries that had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. You can’t stand the watching Avatar because it holds up a mirror to your face revealing the endless black pit where a soul should be in people like you that just fucking LOVE war but hate being reminded of the human cost of the oil you covet. You hide behind the propaganda of “spreading freedom and democracy” which is fucking laughable given that the USA is now a controlled by the Pentagon and Wall Street while your pathetic charade of a two party political system hands hundreds of billions to their corporate/military masters but shaft the American people at every turn as in evidence of this fascist piece of legislation your Government is trying to ram through that says that if you don’t buy medical insurance, from corrupt companies that will do anything they can to avoid making payments for your treatment, you will be fined or even GO TO JAIL! You know, I thought that Obama really was going to bring change but it’s clear that he’s just a smarter and more articulate version of George W. Bush and is in the pocket of the same people who owned that fucking retards worthless ass. So keep bitching about Avatar wingnuts while your way of life is being taken out from under you. You’re all suckers and you’ll get everything you deserve, very soon, and the last thing you'll be worried about is a fucking movie about a bunch of Thundersmurfs.
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... way too many eyeballs getting fucked, raped, drilled, banged, etc., etc.. Go get your eyesight checked, you tools! This movie sucks ass, admit it!
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you are an emotion driven collectivist with no true understanding of the value of anything let alone the value of life.
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that fascist legislation is left wing. do try to keep up
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Hopefuly, they'll grow hair on his chest, thus covering up his man-titties...sheesh.
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...I wouldn't pay squat to see this. You have obviously caught George Lucas disease, able to enjoy anything only with your eyeballs. God forbid a film engage your mind and heart. After reading about the "plot" of this movie ("plot" as in "burial") it sounds like Captain Planet on steriods, and I say TO HELL WITH IT.
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How about you sign up for Iraq and post us some picture from the front line tough guy? I'd get your Mom to post pics of your coffin coming home but then your Government doesn't allow any to be taken because it doesn't want the sheeple in your country to see the cost of war.
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Chicken Wing?
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Right on cue, slobberingly mad and predictable as ever. All is right in the universe.
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Dec 18, 2009 11:32:01 PM CST
Funny thing is the East Coast blizzard will affect the box offic
by yackbacker
AVATAR won't be breaking any records if this snowstorm keeps everyone stuck Saturday.
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Dec 18, 2009 11:32:12 PM CST
No Sequel Planned STORY HERE http://tinyurl.com/ye6czvx
by lovesavatar47
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Dec 18, 2009 11:33:07 PM CST
OH, SORRY WINGNUTS, I'M SURE YOU LOVE STAR WARS BECAUSE....
by tehcreepythinman
You see yourselves as Rebels which is why a bunch of you blew up the Federal Building in Oklahoma in 1995 because you thought Clinton was taking away your Freedom then ironically cheered on Bushco. as they pissed on the Constitution and a Bill of Rights for eight years. You are fascists that wrap yourselves in the flag while holding a bible in one hand and a gun on the other.
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He also needs chili for lunch.
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I watched all 7 parts, some a couple of times- fucking classic. Awesome find, my man- I've sent it off to my associates and they all dig it too. Thanks!
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no, seriously, this is a really fucking cool movie, I can't imagine someone watching this movie and not being impressed with the beauty of it, Avatar fucked my eyeballs and I liked it!
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Glad to see someone *not* just rehashing the "amazing visuals but weak story" groupthink. I thought the story--and especially the universe--was as interesting as anything else I'd seen this year. But more than that, I fucking love Harry's enthusiasm for all things projected. Thanks for the interesting read to go along with a fantastic flick!
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Dec 18, 2009 11:42:17 PM CST
DoctorWho? EAT SHIT YOU FUCKING CUNT!!! OKAY, I GUESS...
by tehcreepythinman
You wouldn’t mind a US drone dropping a bomb on your trailer park, blowing your fat fucking inbred redneck mongoloid family sky high? How about seeing your wife, children, mother, father, brothers, sisters etc… murdered or mutilated by the US Government to put profits into the pockets of military defense contractors and oil companies. Seriously, give me some justification as to why it’s okay for the US Government to be in the Middle-East for the last few decades without your talking points about spreading “freedom and democracy” because you cunts didn’t seem to care about those when you removed the democratically elected President of Iran in 1953 and installed a dictator, the Shaw, that you supported until the 1979 Iranian revolution. Got anything to say now fuckface?
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Dec 18, 2009 11:45:13 PM CST
TehCreepyThinMan proves that Ritalyn doesn't work for everyone
by feralangel
Geez, chill, sonny boy. I AM a veteran, as it happens, served 2 tours in Afghanistan. I figure I've done my duty. Whereas I bet you get your ass beat in World of Warcraft...by ELVES. You pansy.
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Dec 18, 2009 11:46:57 PM CST
lovesavatar47, I LEFT ONE MESSAGE AT NUKE THE FRIDGE....
by tehcreepythinman
It was because Luis had pictures of himself with James Cameron from a screening of Avatar and I thought it was funny how none of the right wing dipshits there didn't have anything to say about the movies Liberal theme's which they would normally jump all over being a bunch of knuckle dragging conseravtives that they are. I guess kissing Cameron's ass is more important then being honest about how they feel towards the movie.
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Golly, I guess he sure told me eh?
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and I also LOVED Avatar but you must have either been drunk as a skunk or had a stroke before writing this bro. Fucking rambles on and skips back and forth more than Side B of Led Zeppelin’s II with a deep scratch in the vinyl.
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Glad to see you are back!!!
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That's the same bullshit LIE that every right wing piece of shit like you uses when someone confronts you about being war mongering scum. You weren’t in the Army and even if you were, why would I give a fuck? What, you think being a soldier means that you are somehow beyond reproach? Or that “I serve my country” bullshit means anything more then the millions of people who work as cops or fire fighters across North America? I have more respect for them because they aren’t used as muscle to wage imperialistic genocide against any indigenous population that sits on a resource that your country wants. You went into the army because it was a fucking job. Only low foreheads like you, fed endless propaganda about how noble it is to serve as a cog in a war machine, actually believe that you are something more then an easily replaceable meat puppet. End. Of. Story.
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Dec 18, 2009 11:59:20 PM CST
LOOKS GOOD TehCreepyThinMan YOU LOVE NUKE THE FRIDGE~~~~~~
by lovesavatar47
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Dec 19, 2009 12:01:42 AM CST
YackBacker, GLAD YOU LIKED IT, TOO BAD AICN DOESN'T.....
by tehcreepythinman
Report Cool News anymore. Fat bastard, sorry, I mean Harold, can't even bother to get his Avatar review out until one fucking day before the movie comes out which is pathetic considering lardass saw it last fucking week.
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...my Jedi powers are telling me you should probably start thinking up another new user name. Do you really expect anybody to take you seriously when you spew such nonsensical hatred all over everything you say? And yes. I know. I'm a stupid cunt, blah, blah, blah. But at least I know how to formulate a sentence without mindlessly attacking people. You're like a constant synaptic misfire stuck in the middle of a really bad trip.
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DONE. No need to read further.
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Slaying pixels all day long must be a bitch. Heh. Thanks for the laugh.
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Did they broom your candy ass out once they found your stash of Playgirl issues hidden in your duffle bag. That can be the only reason you aren’t still there. I though a patriot, like you claim to be, would keep re-enlisting over and over until you “won” in Afghanistan or came home in dozen Ziploc bags. Whatever happened to “I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country” you fucking CHICKEN BOKBOKBOKBOKBOK!!!
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they were cool. I liked how a lot..if not all of the animals had those fire-wire things.
This was meant to be seen in 3-D...from the opening water droplet shot you can just tell it's going to be bad ass. -
Avatar is a warning. It's a warning of what happens when privately-controlled, paramillitary soldiers join forces with big business accountable to no one. It's a warning of what happens when you take former soldiers and strip away their code of conduct and sense of duty and patriotism and instead just leave a well-trained, profit-driven machine. It's a cautionary tale of where the likes of Blackwater could be leaving us.
You see, towards the end, that the mercenaries basically seize control from the greedy but pansy-ass business people. It's the logical extension of millitarism without honor. The mercs look like soldiers and act (in terms of discipline and training) like soldiers, but they aren't really accountable to anyone.
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The weakest link in this movie is the "story". It felt like watching an episode of One Tree Hill that had a budget of $300M. Take away the pomp of the CG (which still looks REALLY CG) and you got NOTHIN'. I swear the people who like this movie have never played videogames because the movie felt like a head-on collision of Warcraft and Halo. It's very good for sure, but great....nah.
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Dec 19, 2009 12:24:17 AM CST
DoctorWho?, I DIDN'T TELL YOU, I FISTED YOUR FUCKING ASS!!!
by tehcreepythinman
It’s the reason that you only responded with sarcasm instead of counter-points to rebuke my assertions. You’ve got NOTHING so EAT SHIT you little bitch. Hey, here’s an idea, you can go with FeralAngel to the Army recruitment office, since I’m sure that he’s going to reenlist to show me how manly he is, and when your in Iraq you can tell me all about how he pays gay Iraqi locals to fuck him in the ass with his favorite strap-on that he calls the Little-boy as it makes him cum like Hiroshima.
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I don't know what it says about me, but I am strangely attracted to Neytiri and I think I'd probably do exactly what he did. She's a hottie, as aliens go. As for the liberal/conservative silliness...Harry injected more of that himself into his writeup than Cameron does, the movie. Not that this should surprise anyone. And incidentally, shouldn't Harry be THIN by now, after lap band surgery? What's with the continued wheelchair/fatty stuff? I lost 100 pounds, myself...without surgery. Just do it, man - then you don't have to think/write about how miserable it is to be physically unfit.
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George Lucas has taught you well...
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True, at least Lucas keeps us guessing and wondering.
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But he failed to provide a back story with the same level of character richness that he gave us with the original trilogy, and the reason he fucked that up is because he became more obsessed with birthing and creating technical leaps in cinema. Cameron did the same damn thing with this movie. This isnt this generations OZ or Star Wars- not by a long shot. Instead of leaving that script in a draw for 10+ years well maybe The Planet King should have reworked it some more, and realized that amazing visuals and photoreal fake characters and creatures and foliage doesn;t equal story!
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Money For Nothing was amazing visually. Yeah and it looks like ass now. Time will kills this films visual punch. Let's see how much of a story it has then....
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Midnight Showing Box Office:
The Twilight Saga: New Moon $26.3 million
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince $22.2 million
The Dark Knight $18.5 million
Avatar $3.7 million
THE NUMBERS ARE IN. -
I really cared about the Na'vi, and the rest of the animals on Pandora. They were real to me & and I don't give a shit about the photoreal argument.
There's a couple of moments towards the end that really got me. The eyes of these beings are so expressive!
I'm going to see Avatar again & love it even more.
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Dec 19, 2009 12:52:43 AM CST
"Now, a story isn’t just about characters and their actions"
by glory_fades_immaxfischer
Gee thanks Mr. Knowles..do we have to stay after class and study more about "what is a story" because I don't think I quite understand yet.
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Without discussing their jobs or what they wear or actions they engage in, can you describe the characters as follow for me: Anakin Skywalker in PHNATOM MENACE, Obi-Wan in PHANTOM MENACE, Qui-Gonn in PHANTOM MENACE, Amidala in PHANTOM MENACE?
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I played the Ubisoft game and found the Pandorapedia the most interesting part of the game. It explains the tech and the science behind things like unobtanium. If I remember correctly, unobtanium is used to control force fields for anti-matter reactions, which is how earth is producing energy and traveling near-light speeds to distant planets. I do a lot of work with next-generation technology, and it's all about how we can meet our energy needs until mankind can come up with something like this or nuclear fusion.
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"Only low foreheads like you, fed endless propaganda about how noble it is to serve as a cog in a war machine, actually believe that you are something more then an easily replaceable meat puppet. End. Of. Story."
Thread winner!!!!!! -
I also hope they show future earth if they ever make any more of these. Anybody thoughts on what they might do if there are sequels?
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Well done, but story kinda contrived, particularly the ludicrously cartoonish villains (Stephen Lang plays his ham-fisted role with a straight face, knowing how farcical his character is; a perfect comic book villain) and towards the ending. I'm very impressed with the visual splendor -- even though some CG scene, especially flying dragons against gorgeous scenery backgrounds, may appear like future PlayStation 4 demo specs. IMAX 3-D is worth seeing because of how damn crisp the movie looks, like seeing a biochemically real film stock running flawlessly on the screen. I notice Tree of Life in AVATAR is uncannily similar to the tree model in Squaresoft's Secret of Mana video game franchise. At least Jim doesn't get that idea from Terry Malick and his forthcoming ambitious movie "Tree of Life." (Terry is a modern-day Luddite who hates television, cell phone, and anything trendy.)AVATAR is a good movie overall -- great visuals but fairly good story with excellent structure but loaded with obvious liberal bias that could be a problem for some hard-core right-wing Teabagger blowhards. I'm somewhere between left-leaning libertarian and ultra right-wing, and I could see how AVATAR might offend some right-wing and even militant sensibilities...if they love war based on "us versus them" vendetta, lies, and predatory capitalism, believe US-Afghanistan-Iraq War-War on Terror to be right, and take O'Reilly/Hannity/Beck's ill-informed & lunatic rants as gospel truth.Dances with Thundersmurfs may be an overstatement, but that's pretty much what movie is about, with mind-bending eye candy despite a few instances that may exemplify Jim's shortcoming as a storyteller-cum-screenwriter.Concerning the flaws, Jim Cameron could at least be a little...more original with story and revise some 'cheddar cheese snack' dialogues. Two sequels in the planning? I think the first AVATAR movie should be enough. Who wants to see blue aliens kick ass two more times? I look forward to Jim doing BATTLE ANGEL with the same and much improved 3-D/photoreal CG technology, if it's still on the plate. AVATAR is not a masterpiece, but a good picture that will undoubtedly win Best Visual Effects and Technical Oscars.
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And possibly even the decade!! AVATAR is a monumental triumph. Naysayers can eat their own poo and smear it over their faces. If you were not amazed or filled with movie making magic wonder by this movie... you better get to an emergency room fast... cause you have no pulse. Or you're just a troll. And they have no pulse either.
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Dec 19, 2009 1:03:03 AM CST
I don't think this movie will do well in the box-office.
by ganymede3001
Even though I thoroughly enjoyed this film, I have to admit that the lines were unusually short at my local theatre. Hopefully word of mouth will give this movie a box office boost.
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Dec 19, 2009 1:05:34 AM CST
AVATAR = GREAT VISUALS WITH A WEAK STORY AND DIALOGUE.....
by tehcreepythinman
Of course when you spend 300 million you’d expect to get some stunning imagery. Now, the problem with Avatar isn’t the simplicity of the story because recent movies like The Fountain and Sunshine were hardly complex, nor could you say that they dialogue was any better written, but it was Darren Aronofsky and Danny Boyle’s sensibilities that infused those movies with a feeling of ethereal lyricism which Cameron was unable to do so with Avatar. Cameron’s movies, like his personality, are very hard/unsubtle and that is reflected in Avatar which, IMHO, was not able to overcome the clichés of the characters or their dialogue and make it all seem fresh and exciting. I admire Avatar as a technical exercise but as a story about the human condition and the nature of the soul, I found it lacking although I probably will see it again just for the spectacle and psychedelic phantasmagoria.
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conservatives blew up the Oklahoma Federal Building? You do know it was just one guy, right? He may have had help from one other person, but it was only Timothy McVeigh who was executed for it. Are you also going to lump in AlGore and the rest of the Environmentalist Crowd in with Ted Kaczynski? The Unabomber Manifesto looks like it could've been written by AlGore himself. Will you also blame every person at Copenhagen as the same as the Unabomber?
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FUCK you turgid pricks sucking this movies taint that criticized Trek as shallow and empty!
Fuck you running!
I knew it, I called it and you cunts can't stand it, this movie is a fucking BOMB of mediocre proportions.
Star Trek has kicked the shit out of this inflated overhyped Watchmen turd of a bomb. Hey Assimov and Kwits, how do you like DEM apples raw-ass pricks? Bwaaaaaah hah hah hah does it hurt? Does it?
Did Cameron fuck your eyeballs Kwitz because he sure fucked his career bwwwah hah hah hah. -
It is passed your whiny ass bed time. Shut your trap, take a Vicodin, and QQ some where else you fat fuck. You are a worthless tooled dipshit who has nothing better to do in life that bitch on a forum. You are not from the military, you are a fat chubby little child who has a diaper rash from the shit coming out of his no talent, worthless, cock sucking oriface. AVATAR WAS AMAZING YOU DOUCHE!
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It is really nice to see such a hero as Jake. So many people are disabled in our society, but they are often ignored, and dismissed as being irrelevant. This is not spoken openly, but how many disabled people are featured as actors, models, newscasters, or in other prominent jobs in our nation, or around the world? That should inform us all about the truth of a quiet discrimination that is felt, but not spoken.For the disabled to be represented as heroes, or singularly, in the form of Jake Sully, and in a major blockbuster film--someone who dares to show others that he matters, and isn't to be overlooked or dismissed in any way, well, it is just plain beautiful to behold. The only thing that would have been more progressive is to actually see a disabled actor play that role, or such a role.I didn't know that Harry was in a wheelchair, but I think you are an amazing critic. Now I think of Ebert and his disability, but you both have it where it counts the most, you've got your minds, your hearts, and your spirits, and in a way...computers, and their word processors, have become your Avatars, because they set you free to achieve so many of your dreams. Your writings, thanks to the internet, are instantly made available across the world, anywhere, at any time, and for my money, that may not be as wonderful as running--but, touching so many people's lives in a positive way, as you do, is certainly a close second. Merry Christmas Harry, to you and yours!!!
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Al Gore worked tirelessly to bring the internet into the public sector, something that Ted Kaczynski was against. To claim they have share remotely identical views is way off base.
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Great review!!!!
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...than the actual movie. I can't wait!
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Except that while watching AVATAR I thought to myself what a BAD representation Jake Sully is of a disabled hero. Want to know why? Because THE ONLY WAY HE CAN BE A HERO IS TO GET HIS LEGS BACK! That's right. He doesn't show kids that you can be a disabled hero (Barbara Gordon is an example of someone who DOES show this) but instead he shows that anyone with a disability should betray just about everything they believe in on the off chance they might be given freedom from the crippling horror of not being able to walk. And you call this heroic? Unbetitsuckinglievable.
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No lines, near-empty Friday night showings. THE PUBLIC HAS SPOKEN AND SAID THEY ARE FUCKING SMARTER THAN JIM CAMERON!
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The same one that all conservative use when their endless hate mongering results in peoples deaths. Bill O Reilly used it after spending months painting a big Conservative red target on Dr. Tiller who was murdered IN A CHURCH by Scott Roeder. Or how about “lone nut” Jim David Adkisson who went on a shooting spree at ANOTHER CHURCH after reading Conservative Bernard Goldberg’s book? Or how about Richard Poplawski who ambushed and murdered three police officers because Conservative television and talk show hosts said that Obama was coming to take his guns away? Maybe you forgot about 88 year James W. von Brunn who killed a guard at the Holocaust museum? Oh and don’t even try comparing Ted Kaczynski to Al Gore or people who try to protect the environment you lying piece of shit. He was one of your anti-Government conservative nuts who hated Leftists/Scientists and despite living in a log cabin he wasn’t any hippie tree hugger. Furthermore, the Oklahoma City bombing was done in retaliation against the Government for what happened at the Branch Davidian Compound at Waco Texas, you fucking know it, and it was committed by right wing fucking nutjobs.
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bwwwah hah hah hah hah flaccid piece of shit BOMB.
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Dec 19, 2009 2:09:21 AM CST
Brian_Da_Man, THAT'S RIGHT, I WAS NEVER IN THE MILITARY BECAUSE.
by tehcreepythinman
I have a brain that I would rather not have it splattered all over a worthless piece of desert half way around the world just to put profits into the pockets of defense contractors and oil companies. You can have that “honor” dipshit.
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people are already calling a movie a bomb? huh?
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all i have to do is watch CUNTDOWN w/ Kieth Uberdouche or read a Al Gore book or article--- go kill someone-- then it would be THEIR fault i did it...... hmmm ok. heaven forbid someone actually takes INDIVIDUAL responsibility for their actions. oh yea, ur a RADICAL LIBERAL so its everyone's fault they did what they did. ol ted, tim, and brunn were VICTIMS. man thanks for the "enlightenment".....
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its hillarious isn't it, the word premature comes to mind.
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But you can still check out my Avatar movie review at my blog: http://ranting-and-raven.blogspot.com/
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here it is again:
http://ranting-and-raven.blogspot.com/ -
God, I would love to get all of you in a room together. Someone should just film an AICN talkback pilot. It would be the Jersey Shore of geekdom.
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http://tinyurl.com/ylxzlc9
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Not sure why you went and watched the movie, your mind was already made up at least a week ago, if not before.
On the plus side you contributed to the box office. -
....and they loved it. It was weird; I need to see the movie again, because i was watching their reactions the whole time. I thoroughly enjoyed the film. If this movie bombs, it won't take away from what a great moving experience it is. Box office doesn't equal quality: new moon and Transformers 2 is evidence of this. There were some empty seats in my theatre, but the people that were there cheered and applauded afterward. There was a camera crew interviewing people at the end of the movie; and everybody that was interview talkedd about how surprised they were at how good it was. This movie needs good word of mouth, or else is done for. The film as great reviews, now the only thing the trolls and haters have to hoope for is weak box office. fucking sad and pathetic. To think so much time and energy is wasted on hoping for a film with such ambition fail. Fuck you hating assholes!! You don't deserve good sci fi. nuff said
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Someone was murdered and it was attributed to Keith Olberman or Al Gore and the person who was killed was named SPECIFICALLY by them in the days, weeks or months before the murder took place? I’d ask you to find such a case but there is no point as it has NEVER HAPPENED or you’d make up some shit like saying that all those right wing fucking psycho’s were lefties the way that BillO, Hannity, Malkin, Stossel, Beck, Coulter, Limbaugh etc… always do whenever there is a politically motivated killing by one of you Conservative cocksuckers. Oh and it is sooo deliciously ironic when you worthless fucksticks throw the phrase “responsible for your own actions” around as you pukes fuck up EVERYTHING (the Government, the Military, Iraq, Afghanistan, the worldwide economy etc…) then point the finger at everyone but yourselves and that is because you are the scum of the fucking Earth and it’s always left to Liberals and Progressives to clean up your fucking mess.
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...please excuse my errors and typos...
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Dec 19, 2009 2:47:40 AM CST
AVATAR FITS SQUARELY WITH THIS LIFELONG CONSERVATIVE'S BELIEFS
by bringingsexyback
The corporations and their mercs are nothing if not a representation of fascism and totalitarianism.
If you TRULY value liberty and small governance as I do, there is no chance you could not side with the Na'vi. To call this movie Liberal propaganda is utter ignorance.
You're basically forfeiting the concepts of justice and morality to the Liberals, you fucking idiots. So if you consider yourself of the Right, kindly shut the fuck up and stop acting stupid. It's embarassing.
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You Harry and God Bless Avatar!!!
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Credit to Worthington for being able to pull off 3 different accents convincingly....but can someone tell him he doesn't have to do them all in the same movie.
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by simply refuting and dismissing ur points--then-- there is no use in "debating" with u. i just told u the error of ur ways. and in typical raging, radical liberalism-- u start yelling and demeaning people. typical. u need to go on CUNTDOWN or Rachael Mandykes show. u would fit riiight ( or is it left?? ) in crybaby.
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Dec 19, 2009 2:52:14 AM CST
CTM - I HAVE TO CONCEDE ON THE "RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS"
by bringingsexyback
issue. It's mind boggling how Republicans have done nothing but heap blame on EVERYTHING on the Dems but take no responsibility for what we have done in 8 years under Bush.
What can I say - hypocrisy runs through my party like a cancer. -
Apparently mental illness runs through my party, too. Sigh.
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NO ONE on those FOX shows told ANYBODY to murder people. they just state their opinion- thats all. just like the "non-biased" MSNBC anchors do. nobody murdered anyone from Uberbags show or any FOX show because NO ONE told them too. its pretty simple really.
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The story is a tale as old as time. its throw-away. its complete paint by numbers. if anything, its the worst part of the movie, next to the so-so acting. Its fun, the effects are great and the mo-cap is top of the line, but we've seen this story 200 million times before. unoriginal. a friend and I agreed that Avatar has nothing you wouldn't see in any large scale video game release in the last 5 years. It looks like a good Final Fantasy FMV. Everything in this movie borrows from just about every genre imaginable. i mean, FUCK. the floating islands are practically cherry picked from Magic the Gathering's latest set. Avatar is the definition of derivative scifi, but very well done none the less.
don't praise this movie too much guys- it really isn't anything new. its a great ride, that's all. -
Dec 19, 2009 3:00:35 AM CST
BOTTOM LINE IS THIS: CAMERON SHOULD DO A NINJA GAIDEN MOVIE
by bringingsexyback
How fucking awesome would that be.
Answer: Very. -
i meant to type the o in Countdown. but, golly,i just forgot. i mean, if uberbag and 'ol mandyke can "jokingly" call people marching TEABAGGERS and RACISTS then they should be to take their own brand of "humor". and who said i was a republican?
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I think people will either love it with child-like amazement. Or hate it for being too predictable and lazy. I was the former. Not my favorite movie since The Dark Knight, not even my favorite movie of the year. But in terms of an 'experience', it was the best one I've had since Return of the King.
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Nice review. The film does seem to divide people but I loved it. I loved that the story was simple, loved that it was predicatable and loved that it had a happy ending. The visuals were stunning and the female lead stole the entire film. Cameron made me believe she was real. Sometimes all you want is a film to lift you out of your own life and take you soemwhere else, soemwhere fantastic, somewhere where therre's hope, goodness and the good guys win.
This did it in style! -
I don't think there's a computer powerful enough to capture and process her essense. But no doubt they're working on it.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:11:30 AM CST
MAYBE IN 7 YEARS' TIME I'LL BE READY TO VOTE REPUBLICAN AGAIN
by bringingsexyback
Maybe by some miracle our house will be cleansed by then.
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Naming the Macguffin "Unobtainium" is the single biggest insult to the Modern Day Film Goer in the last 50 years. Why don't you have a blur at the start of the movie explaining to me why the movie audience shouldn't get up out of their seats because they're so offended by the writing we're subjected to in the year 2009. Fucking Unobtainium. Jesus Christ. I don't even want to hear anyone defend that. That's just pathetic.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:20:12 AM CST
BringingSexyBack, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FAIR CONSERVATIVE VIEWS....
by tehcreepythinman
I think we want the same things. Liberty, Democracy, Capitalism. But those concepts aren’t “owned” by liberals. They’re owned by anyone with a sense of fairness and justice. What we should ALL want is a society free of war and starvation. Where no one has to worry about being taken care of when afflicted with disease or illness, where very single child, woman and man is given the opportunity through education and their own determination to make whatever they want out of life. I’m a lefty-liberal type and what I want is to see our species progress. We’ve managed an amazing amount just in the last 100 years or so. Can you imagine what we could accomplish if we took the 626 billion that the USA will spend on War next year not to mention the 750 billion that was more-or-less given to Wall Street? Over 1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS!!! Think about the incredible things that could be achieved with that money by putting our best scientific minds onto the problems that plague us today.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:20:12 AM CST
BringingSexyBack, THANK YOU FOR YOUR FAIR CONSERVATIVE VIEWS....
by tehcreepythinman
I think we want the same things. Liberty, Democracy, Capitalism. But those concepts aren’t “owned” by liberals. They’re owned by anyone with a sense of fairness and justice. What we should ALL want is a society free of war and starvation. Where no one has to worry about being taken care of when afflicted with disease or illness, where very single child, woman and man is given the opportunity through education and their own determination to make whatever they want out of life. I’m a lefty-liberal type and what I want is to see our species progress. We’ve managed an amazing amount just in the last 100 years or so. Can you imagine what we could accomplish if we took the 626 billion that the USA will spend on War next year not to mention the 750 billion that was more-or-less given to Wall Street? Over 1.3 TRILLION DOLLARS!!! Think about the incredible things that could be achieved with that money by putting our best scientific minds onto the problems that plague us today.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:20:53 AM CST
UNOBTANIUM IS AN ACTUAL SCIENTIFIC TERM WITH A GENERAL APPLICATI
by bringingsexyback
Like X and Y in algebra. It's appropriately used in Avatar because the element at the center of the story is needed to solve a nigh-impossible problem - providing energy for a dying Earth.
It's clear Cameron respected his audience's intelligence when he decided to use the term. Unfortunately, he also over-estimated their intelligence, too. -
"Hold on to your shit, because you’ll want to be constipated. Otherwise… it’ll be 3D in your pants!" Ah, Harold ... this is why we eagerly await your reviews. Always a classic line or two in every one.
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Hell, for all we fucking know it could have been uttered as a "joke". As in "THIS SHITTY FUCKING MINERAL IS SO HARD TO OBTAIN AND I'M NOT GOING TO FUCKING SAY THE WHOLE SCIENTIFIC NAME FOR THIS WE AINT GOT TIME TO WASTE"
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Just because I believe in personal liberty and small(er) government doesn't mean I think we each live in a vacuum, and there is no helpful role for government.
I believe in a humanistic approach to society, just as you described. If our government INVESTED our tax money into educating our children instead of WASTING it killing people, then of course that's a sensible thing to do.
What has amazed me in recent days is the opposition to healthcare reform. My party spend 7 years racking up a trillion dollar debt to the Chinese to fund war. Not a peep could be heard from the GOP about that. And never mind the hundreds of thousands killed.
But spend a dime on ensuring a fair healthcare industry and to cover the uninsured, and they raise holy hell. It's amazing to me.
There are days I could swear the people on my side of the proverbial aisle truly hate America, and are just plain insane. -
Dec 19, 2009 3:32:17 AM CST
BringingSexyBack, THE DEMS AREN'T BLAMELESS EITHER....
by tehcreepythinman
They're just the lesser of two evils.
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... then SHUT THE FUCK UP. Seriously, all you haters have been bleating for fucking ever and a day how much Avatar sucks, and 80% of you haven't even fucking seen the film! SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. So you didn't like Avatar -- well good for you, now just fuck off and stop shoving your opinion down everyone's throats. The Harry-hate is even worse. If you don't fucking like his reviews, then don't fucking read them! Just. FUCK. OFF.
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But by and large, and I hate to admit it, the lunatics have taken over the asylum on the Right. I see no hope there.
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Just rejoice that the King is back.
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I can not agree with you politically on nearly any level. I love your verve for film. I have been with you for over ten years, and you always gush about mush. I hope you are right about this one. I love JC and hope for an Aliens or Term impact. Would be even better if it was the feeling like Star Wars ET Jaws or the Matrix put me in. Cheers brother!
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In Canada, we are fucking amazed at the arguments being made against the USA having a publicly funded Healthcare system like ours. The fact that the terms “communism” and “socialism” are being thrown about is fucking ridiculous. The fact that anyone takes them seriously is frightening!?! The reason that you should have a Government controlled healthcare system (that would allow people the option to have private insurance which is the exact same thing we have here) is the same reason that the Government should be in control of making sure our water is clean to drink, that our food is fit to eat, that our air isn’t filled with pollutants. Now, should Government be in control of everything? FUCK! NO! But what they can do is legislate and regulate some things that affect every single citizen across the country. I myself have been lobbying the Canadian Government to cover penis enlargements as it seems that women these days just aren’t satisfied with ten inches.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:52:24 AM CST
TOP CRITICS LOVE THIS FILM, NOBODIES DON'T. INTERESTING.
by --- emperor ---
I find it very interesting how pretty much all the top critics on rottentomatoes and metacritic lavish this film with the highest praise, some even calling it their favorite film of 09, and nobodies like 'mike russell' and others galore, pan it. I think I am going to go with the top, established critics on this one. So yeah, fuck off mike russell. It seems to me that the lesser known critics just want to grab attention, and in trying to be original, they failed by simply agreeing with every other unestablished, unknown critic. Yep, I'm gonna go with Berardinelli, Ebert, New York Times, Variety, Empire etc. on this one. And all of them gave it the top ratings. So, like i said, fuck off nobodies.
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We are silly in the US debating Healthcare. But when does gov intrusion stop? What else do they get their hands in? When do ya draw the line brother?
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long time no chat
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Dec 19, 2009 4:26:23 AM CST
--- Emperor ---, "TOP CRITICS" GAVE STAR TREK 95% AT ROTTEN TOMA
by tehcreepythinman
While Avatar is sitting at 83%, at this moment. By your definition ST was better then Avatar. Now, would I say Avatar was better then Star Trek? In terms of story structure, Avatar is much better then the convoluted nonsense of ST. Meanwhile, ST had much better performances from its actors and the dialogue was much sharper. For heart pounding action, Avatar gets my money while Star Trek’s characterization was much better. I find both movies entertaining but they were nothing that I would say was revolutionary apart from Avatar’s technical advances which were good but didn’t blow me away like the T-1000 in Terminator 2 or the Dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. I think the novelty of fantastical CGI environments and creatures has worn off as we’ve been divulged with them within the last decade. Despite all of ST’s faults, I really felt the characters while the people in Avatar felt more like ciphers running around a clichéd storyline. Each gave me something the other didn’t have but I can’t say I liked either better then the other.
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Do you really think Star Trek is better than Avatar? Really? And where is this alternate reality where Avatar is a bomb? Every American critic has praised the film, some as a revolutionary work.
Nobody remembers Star Trek. It's gone, forgotten. Nowhere on the end of year best lists, nowhere in the awards nominations.
If you mean the midnight showings prove Avatar is a bomb you know nothing about how the movie industry works. Nice try, keep on trolling! -
Fucking LOVED IT! So beautiful, everything about it. Beautiful.
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Dec 19, 2009 4:37:49 AM CST
Harry, you were and ARE financially capable of fixing yourself
by smackfu
ironically, the solution is to simply spend less on food. Sounds callous I know, but really, what your saying is like a chain smoker complaining that he can't afford the cost of his bronchitis medication.
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to digest it. Like it hasn't fully sunk in. I really loved it. Thank you Jim!
And shit it really is like Chinese Democracy. Avatar is fucking awesome. -
Dec 19, 2009 4:42:03 AM CST
bobbofatz, MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ASKED THAT QUESTION WHEN......
by tehcreepythinman
The Bush Administration started tapping the phones and e-mail's of millions of people with no record as to who those people were or why they were being spied on. Look, it’s clear that wasn’t done to find terrorists. It was done to spy on critics, dissenters and political opponents. This is in Fascist Dictatorship’s for Dummies. You’re really worried about Government intrusion? What exactly are you afraid will happen with a universal healthcare system? You’ll get injured or sick and NOT get a bill? That POOR PEOPLE and ILLEGALS will be getting a free ride? Come on man and use your fucking brain! The US public has been fed that “communism” and “socialism” bullshit for decades and even by that senile old cocksucker Ronnie St. Raygun back when he was shilling for the insurance companies. The ONLY people socialized medicine is a threat to is CORPORATIONS which is why they’ve been trying to make you afraid of having a healthcare system when virtually every fucking industrialized nation on Earth has one for fuck sakes. Wake the fuck up!
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Dec 19, 2009 4:42:56 AM CST
TOP CRITICS HATED STAR WARS. NOBODIES DON'T. INTERESTING.
by livingwater
I really didn't like it, it sort of is a backstab against Western society, making our army/society out to be greedy and evil while primitive "TERRORISTS" are meant to be spiritually superior. It's like a big, expensive, loud, emotionless computer game, sort of cool but actually really bad and very dark in a way. Cameron, who likes to fire machine guns in the desert with his buddies (until one of them shot himself in the foot and the Police came....an unreported true story) must really hate himself. Here is the news. Nature is every day you live. Before life and after death. There is no "revelation" apart from this experience NOW. The people in the tanks are simply more sophisticated, not more out of touch. What happens in Africa ? you think they ignore guns/technology in favour of disease (unmentioned), lack of good water (unmentioned), lack of food (unmentioned). OF COURSE NOT. EVERYTHING is nature ....AND... ...to suggest Western society has no concern for ecology is just ludicrous. ONE WORD: COPENHAGEN. All this greed and money from Cameron is just to make a point, and the point isn't a valid one. There are huge gaps in the simple, cartoon logic of this movie; if they can make an AVATAR, why is the guy still in a wheelchair then ? it's just an insult to disabled people, making them to be weak as a fascist crux.... in fact, in REALITY, disabled people become stronger in some ways (like the blind person with a greater sense of hearing or touch etc....). The CG is excessive, and two steps above a computer game quality. None of it was as good as Fellowship of the Ring or Titanic. The designs were bizaare and unique but so what........the whole story was an anime/comic book rehash of stolen scenes. What is really "interesting" about this, --Emprer-- is the mass hypnosis. If this was an unknown Japanese director (like Final Fantasy) it would not get anywhere near the recognition level. The last scene is ludicrous..... This type of film doesn't excite me about cinema, it bores me with itself insulting superficiality and mass control due to capitalist investment. If Cameron TRULY believed in his message, why is he living in two mansion in Malibu, with a fleet of Hummers, shooting machine guns for fun etc..... and not living with and learning from the Massai, Yanomami or Pashtun tribes ? Why ? He doesn't believe what he is actually saying. The fact is...it's a cynical money grab by a pudgey bitter power mad hippy with a string of failed marriages under his belt, standing on the hard work and overtime of a league of CG artist, and an excess budget to fuel his ego..... he doesn't want nature, he wants your admiration to make himself feel better than you... not to reconnect with nature. THAT is reality. What you watched was a film that shows Cameron is actually not "KING OF THE WORLD"...... he is "KING OF THE HYPOCRITES".
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What happened to everybody's favorite fatso?
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Such a GREAT movie! It's a shame people just can't kick back and enjoy it, because it really is a GREAT film, it may be kinda cliche, but fuck so was Star Wars. And is it just me...or did fucking Stephen Lang steal the show? He's one of my favorite actors since way back from BAND of the fucking HAND. He rocked in Public Enemies too, it's great seeing him back getting work again!
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Stephen Lang is THE MAN.
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An elderly couple who worked all their days, put their kids through school, paid off their home and saved enough to retire comfortably, being struck down by an accident or illness and having to give up everything they worked for their whole lives just to ensure that they can stay alive or keep healthy. I see that shit and it makes me cry my fucking eyes out that the United States of America, the freest, most democratic nation on Earth would allow that to happen to it’s people. There is something fundamentally wrong with your country when it can give 1.3 TRILLION FUCKING DOLLARS to the military and Wall Street but can’t make sure that people don’t have to worry about money when they are sick and at their most vulnerable.
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I hope he gets tons more parts, he's got such a grizzled, hard-core look to him man. He's gotta be in his 60's but shit when he was lifting weights I was like, "That old man can wipe the fucking floor with me." We need more actors like him around hollywood, fucking TOUGH guys. Inspired casting.
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http://bit.ly/5M0GPO
I mostly agree with Harry, it seems. -
Why is he in a wheelchair? Come on nerds, I demand an answer.
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That is a fantastic start. The weekend before Christmas and playing in way less theaters than it could be.
this is flying past $300 million and $800 million worldwide at least.
suck it haters -
Been reading a lotta reviews and a lotta talkbacks the past few days and they seem littered with people who just absolutely gotta hate and find any excuse to do so. Giving excuses from derivative to trying to give some subliminal messages that somehow offend them and go as far as to attack their sacred way of life.
I don't think i've seen a movie that isnt someway derivative of something else, practically every superhero movie is a carbon copy of each other and yet they regularly escape outright panning for being derivative. Yes, Avatar is a little more obvious and open to its bases but it is no more guilty or worthy of criticism.
As for the offensiveness of the "tree hugging," it must be some American thing where people are so far up their own ass and wrapped in their own set of circumstances that they have no cause for concern as to the wellbeing or plight of anyone else. They are the company, they dont know they are, but they are happy enough to be the company. The simple fact is that this situation has gone on forever, conquest of a lesser species. Just because you can wrap the word "terrorist" around it all doesnt make it offensive and a reason to hate.
I saw the movie last night and loved it, I went in expecting to be disappointed, I had seen the trailers and been disappointed by them and practically knew the story. It still worked though, big action set pieces, likeable characters, stunning effects, awesome sound, it just worked (except that leona lewis shit at the end). I guess its cause I didn't have some preconception that it was trying to impact my way of life and I wasn't prepared to burden my opinion by any set of staunch political views. I simply saw it as a big budget movie about aliens. -
Jake Sully *jumps on flying red dino bird*: Take it all Bitch!! *crams ponytail in closest dino hole* I loved this movie. Can't wait to see it again.
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That Avatar was simply railing against Western Civilization. It sounds just like the same arguments made by Conservatives who see this movie and recognize that the human characters are engaging in the same type of scorched-earth campaign that the US is involved with in the Middle-East and whatever tiny bit of conscious you have is bothered by the knowledge that you support war, death and destruction and are, in fact, a poor excuse for a human being for doing so. This is the real problem that you have with Avatar and my thesis is further strengthened by the fact that you actually bring up Cameron’s wealth and his marital difficulties which shows you to be a complete, and a-typical, Conservative hypocrite as people like you champion Free-Market capitalism and the sanctity of marriage and yet your kind game the financial markets, causing worldwide economic disaster, and whore around as much as everyone else while most likely engaging in the type of sexual activities that sanctimonious frauds like you claim to be “immoral” such as being diapered by a hooker (David Vitter) or trolling airport bathrooms for gay sex (Larry Craig). At least Cameron isn’t a drug addicted pedophile so he’s got something over Rush Limbaugh, eh? Now, do I want us to back to living in caves, give up the advancements that we have made as a society and go Vegan? HELL FUCKING CHRIST NO!!! I like technology (INTERNET PORN!!!), I like cheeseburgers and nature FUCKING BORES ME!!! But this doesn’t me that we shouldn’t be mindful that we have an impact on our environment and that our resources on this planet are not infinite. There is nothing wrong with so-called Limousine Liberals such as Cameron making a pro-Peace, pro-Environment, anti-Imperialistic messages if it inspires people to work together to make a better future for a more prosperous tomorrow for all of us. If you don’t understand what I’m saying then I feel sorry for you.
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but when I saw it. Holy shit. My eyeballs were fucked many times over.
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Nice that you invented a new word, Harry, but here is already one for what you are trying to describe. It's - gasp - "Avatar"!
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You went off on a tangent my friend. I no like Bush much either. But they all suck mostly in my book. US did not start the idea of freedom. Everybody gets free health houses and food. It sounds utopian. Who is paying for it, and what do we have to give up to have it?
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...are probably the most polluting people per capita. Still, I don't get why people are focusing on story and politics regarding Avatar. I think you have to read it as a multi-referenced and imaginative allegory, nothing more (nothing less). Also, I hope that some conservatives are respectful of the environment, since it's a meta-political issue. As I'm sure some liberals don't give two shits about conservation. And just for the record, the first person to publicly condemn the industrial-military complex was Republican President Einsenhower in his farewell speech. And he was military, he was a conservative... So, I don't really understand why conservatives would feel Avatar is a liberal's rant: it's a voyage to another planet unlike any other made by a master traveller/film maker. I'm still digesting the shock because I thought I wouldn't enjoy it but this sure felt like a masterpiece to me. I only get that feeling once or twice a year. It will hold up, no matter what quantic computers allow FX people to do fifteen years from now. I rarely get grandiloquent but this is like Cocteau's Beauty and the Beast, like Kubrick's 2001, like Miyazaki's Spirited Away or Jackson's Two Towers. Absolute awe and visceral wonderment. People who don't enjoy it have my sympathies but I just don't get their hang-ups: they seem beside the point considering Cameron's previous works. JC never pretended to be Bergman or Robert Bolt. Avatar's the stuff geeks are made of.
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Dec 19, 2009 5:42:27 AM CST
Since people are talking about the politics of this film...
by fluffyunbound
...I'll reiterate my earlier point about it. Ordinarily sci-fi films and books get a complete pass on their politics from me, because if every sci-fi writer could perfectly anticipate the economic and political and social effects of new technologies, every sci-fi work would be exactly the same and describe only one future, and that would be kind of lame. But in this case, I'm a little annoyed, because Cameron's theme is "Western technology and capitalism are so depraved that if they make it into space, they'll go to the one planet where they find any intelligent life and give the aborigines there to try to steal their minerals." And this is pretty stupid. If humanity makes it out of Earth's gravity well, there will be so much mineral wealth available just in the solar system that no mineral of any kind will be worth murdering a bunch of blue guys over. If humanity makes it out of Earth's gravity well, a war of the kind Cameron shows here will never be economically or politically possible ever again, and that change will be the result of the very technologies Cameron is denouncing. So if we could ever make it out there to meet the Navi, everything Cameron has to say about how we would interact with them would be wrong. So yeah, this is a groundbreaking film that deserves to be seen on the basis of its achievements alone, and as an act of visual imagination it has a lot of value, but don't try to defend the story because the story is stupid and just wrong. If Cameron didn't mean us to take it seriously, we could just call it space opera, which is always politically and economically absurd, but Cameron DOES intend us to take it seriously and that makes it stupid.
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but me and most of you guys know what a good movie is. The dust may need to settle in order to arrive at a real unbiased verdict. How many days until it is Aliens or Matrix worthy? or will it happen?
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I like where youre at. That all made sense, even to a hick like me.
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...Let's say for a moment that I concede that AGW is a problem, and that we have to reduce the amount of CO2 we're putting into the atmosphere. I would support doing that only if we could do so in a way consistent with the equal protection of the laws, and the only way I can think of that would do that would be to tax CO2 production, from the first molecule, the same amount for everyone. But that will never happen. What will happen instead is that entire categories of CO2 producing activity will simply be banned, while others are allowed; and SOME CO2 production will be taxed, while other production will not be, and SOME people will pay a tax when they produce CO2, while other people will be handed waivers and carbon allowances and emergency permits and carbon credits and every other sort of nonsense that bureaucrats can invent. And the net effect of all of these Rube-Goldberg measures will be that people with connections to the environmental movement and its dominant political personalities will continue to ride around in limousines and take private planes and everything else, while people without such connections will be the ones who will actually have to change their behavior. And that just doesn't cut it with me. I would rather see the fucking sea level rise and drought come and all the rest of it than stand in line outside waiting to take the electric bus while Al Gore still flies around in private planes he's got a special permit to use because he's working on "urgent public business". I would absolutely turn militia before I would stand by and watch that occur.
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Sometimes even the greats try to outsmart their audience. How many holes could we find in Star Wars?
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This is a scam. Like fucking Prince charles worries about polar bears drownding while eight people wipe his arse!
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Maybe this is the only way to get across to so many followers and earth first cultists.
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Reminds me of Uluru / Ayers Rock... http://www.eturbonews.com/11599/uluru-tour-operator-theyre-sg-sacred-site
"SYDNEY — Tourists are defecating on Australia's sacred Uluru, or Ayers Rock, a newspaper report said on Tuesday, amid calls for a climbing ban on the iconic desert attraction.
Tour operator Andrew Simpson said visitors were often caught short on the long climb up the red monolith, which holds deep religious significance for Australia's Aboriginal community..." -
drownding. But actually orcas and other whales can hunt seal and other pinniped easier with less ice.
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The galactic empire in Star Wars, or any other space opera, doesn't make a lot of sense either. There will never be such a thing as interstellar trade, because the amount of energy needed to travel between stars will always be greater than the amount of energy you'd have to expend to just make something on your own planet or in your own system. There can never be a case of comparative advantage on a galactic scale. So there can never be a Trade Federation or a charming, rougeish smuggler or an interstellar big fat crime boss. But none of that matters, because you aren't supposed to take any of that seriously. The basic political setup is "Empire wants to rule, rebels want to be free" and if not a lot of the content attached to that basic idea makes sense, well, so what. But here Cameron thinks he is making an important political point with his sci-fi creation. And the point he is making about scarcity leading to cruelty and heedless destruction when desire is wedded to military force is a very important one, but it only makes sense in an earthbound context. The very technologies he's warning us against will solve the very problems he's worried about, if they ever succeed to the level he's put on the screen here. And as a result, he's complaining about the very thing that will fix the problem he's afraid of. And that's at least a little annoying.
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Han Solo did not wear rouge.
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there are changes going on in cycles. But are we prepared to give away anymore rights to these aholes? What makes you think they know exactly what they are talking about?
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...because it's an interesting one. From a scientific standpoint, you say humanity wouldn't need to mine outside of the solar system if it could manage extraterrestrial epxeditions. I suppose you're referring to Titan's methane oceans (amongst others)? However, the atmospheres on our solar system's sattelites seem truly terrible. Pandora's atmosphere seems more manageable, despite its toxicity. Furthermore, perhaps the unMcGuffinium is actually a super-dense power source, which would make its transport relatively more affordable, despite the six years' hike, than regular old methane. As for the corporate/military hostility towards aliens, I believe it could happen. Unless Levi-Strauss is taught to all kindergardeners like it's the Bible, economic imperatives and survival of the species could still be quite predominant in 2154. Especially if all the natives have to retaliate is a primitive arsenal (that's just amoral pragmatism but it should be factored). Anyway, while I will admit the story felt simple and familiar, I wouldn't call it stupid since its attention to detail and execution are one-of-a-kind. That said, the suspension of disbelief this film generated for me was such that I'm even having trouble criticizing Horner's score (which isn't up to the level). Whatever: I'm no facile fanboy but this struck all kinds of chords in me. So I'm in a child-like denial over its supposed flaws because I've been in a child-like state of wonder ever since I ran away from the screening as soon as that god-awful song came on.
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Good point and well taken. I think JC knew this argument going into it. He made the story simple for his teen audience. Not a slap to us 20s and 30s and beyond, but just to maximize profit potential. He knows we may scoff at the similarities in other stories. I think he also knows we will show up anyway. And from the sound of it, he put a little in there for everybody.
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Dec 19, 2009 6:22:04 AM CST
AudaAbuTayi, UH, CONSERVATIVES DON'T CARE ABOUT CONSERVATION....
by tehcreepythinman
What they really want, not sensible Conservative’s like BringingSexyBack but the fucking lunatic Palinites that control the GOP, is regression back to the good old days of slave labour, work houses and debtor prisons. They are essentially aristocratic-ruling-class-elitist’s. They want the public kept uninformed and uneducated. A public capable of critical thought doesn’t help the Republican Party because those people can’t be made to do things based on fear; fear of people who worship other religions, have a different sexual orientation, ethnicities, social backgrounds etc…The modern Conservative movement is all based around FEAR and HATRED towards anything that doesn’t conform to their narrow views. They have nothing else and that’s because their policies and goals are based on greed and selfishness and they know that flies in the face of Liberal/Progressive politics. This is the reason why most people who are well educated consider themselves to be politically Liberal. This is also the reason that the right prides itself on its stupidity and derides anyone with more then a high school diploma as an elitist. I’m not going to even get into Arugula and Dijon mustard to save you the embarrassment. Stupid people are easier to scare/control and the political masters of the right know they can rile up the dogs by throwing a few phrases that their mindless followers have been conditioned to react to with illogical and uninformed extremism i.e. KEEP YOUR GOVERNMENT HANDS OFF MY MEDICARE In your favor I will say that you are an endless supply of comedy GOLD
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So it was good?
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Dude you are a angry probably educated person. You are so wrong about these people you despise. You type in absolutes, but have you every loved or bonded with someone that disagreed with you? People are deeper thn this dogma you thrust upon them.
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If he is I am a fascist
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Holylwood is certainly helpingthose aristocratic neo-cons. The amount of stupidity released this year in ther shape of blockbusters seems like a deliberate atempt to keep the public dumb. And the level of praise and acceptance thrown at dumb shit like Jar Jar Abrams's SHIT TREK just proves that it's working. Maybe that's the reason so many are resenting AVATAR for having a message, instead of just being about shit blowning up.
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Dec 19, 2009 6:34:23 AM CST
bobbofatz, I BASE MY OPINIONS ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN....
by tehcreepythinman
And the shit that goes on in Wingnutland is fucking terrifying to anyone who's read about pre-WW2 Germany.
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Look! I've invented a new word.
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I'm not so sure about that, from an outsider looking in at how political everything seems to be in America right now everything that creepy has said seems to ring true.
Heck, most of the posts against Avatar reinforce that opinion. The hatred and fear seems very deeply rooted, which is I guess something I was trying to get across in my earlier post.
Maybe it's unfair to tar EVERYONE with the same brush, but certainly the vocal minority enforce that view. -
Dec 19, 2009 6:40:25 AM CST
AsimovLives, BUT WATCHING A MOVIE WITH A MESSAGE.....
by tehcreepythinman
Is soo much work and I actually have to think. I licked Tranyformers butter bekuz i haz teh stoopidz!*&^
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Whether wrong or right, can you see a fear in an all encroaching government. Maybe we are all wrong. But you can surely call a need for an eye on them. Who will watch the watchers? Do you trust them with everything? When do they go to far?
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...and that's the gold standard for me in terms of a movie's goal. It spoke to someone. It sparked thought about some issue in the mind of a viewer. Compare it to something like an ID4 that had stunning visuals but I don't think there is anyone with an intellect beyond that of an earthworm (my apologies to AICN's readers who might be earthworms) in whom some second though was generated because of that movie.
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Dec 19, 2009 6:46:24 AM CST
AsimovLives, ACTUALLY, THE REASON MOVIES ARE GETTING DUMBER.....
by tehcreepythinman
Is because they’re being made for the broadest possible audience and lowest common denominator. Read my favorite book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls by Peter Biskind and you will know EXACTLY why and how Hollywood has gone right into the shitter after the 1970’s which was North American cinema’s greatest decade.
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garden variety hollywood propaganda. But Jim knows this, and hopfly it wont matter because overall it ranks with Aliens and Term. I hope so
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..who doesn't think that Tara Reid's Playboy spread doesn't have her looking scarily like one of the Mecha gigolo's and prostitutes???
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Was a good read. Lota coke and giant egos. Thank the lord above for independent film. I promise it is good
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The left sees one, the right sees other. Really, the two monolithic entities are just in a continual process of merging, with an increasingly obvious tilt toward corporatism. Look at Detroit right now. Is it too hard to imagine a massive conglomerate moving in to "fix things up" and "create jobs" that will just create yet another class of wage slaves while shrinking the middle class? This combines the worst instincts of liberalism (something for everybody! progress!) and free-market conservatism (individual rights, even for corporations! Minimal taxation/regulation!). Man, fucking RoboCop was right ... Anyway, let's cut the political debate bullshit. Nobody's going to give any ground anyway.
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...I'll just say that the Republican Party won't have any mainstream grip if they keep relying on their most extremist wing. I just don't see a majority of the fearful in the US anytime soon. Maybe I'm being idealistic, given the economic crisis that's still waiting to happen, but the Republicans are still in a state of ideological slumber from which they need to wake up. Their outrage is their weakness. While conservatives are not my cup of tea, I find democracies are strongest when both majority and opposition have clear-cut, sensible positions (no matter how stupid Reaganomics turned out to be). To a conservative's mind, greed and selfishness are rationalized as free enterprise and personal prosperity. So moralizing them will probably not work, just as their moral objections won't stop anyone from enjoying a great bowl or aragula with Dijon-flavored vinaigrette (with some finely chopped parmesan on top). But please: let's just go back to Pandora's summer and forget this earthly, wintry mess we live in. How about them bioluminescent, soul-spore thingies? Future technology will have organic parts all over the motherboard.
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needs to fail, so as to make room for us, the indy artists of the future. After all, are we not Directors in waiting?
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Absolutely right. Conservatives in other advanced countries (Canada, France, UK) actually acknowledge the need for conserving the environment while remaining pro-business. They understand it's better that all folks, including homosexuals, have individual rights. They compromise, in other words, a truly conservative trait. And I don't mean this Lieberman-esque baloney that's happening now. He even said he was waffling just to fuck with the liberals, and they took his fucking bait. He was for the Medicare buy-in just three months ago! Oh well. Fuck it. Look at me, asking people to stop talking politics and then I keep blabbing. OH WELL. Back to Avatar. The snow in the Northeast will hurt business this weekend, but I still see a decent haul, and word of mouth can take of the rest.
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How about it is us against them. You and me. We disagree on little. Maybe it is not rep vs dem or cons vs. lib. I know we can come together. Why are there forces dividing and distracting us. What really matters? That....we need to talk about!
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My best bud called me last night to say - I didn't hate it. It's good. In most parts. Some parts suck.
I said to him 'that's the exact review you gave me ten years ago for 'the phantom menace.' I think the haters are being proven correct and the lovers are in denial, just as they were with SWPM all those years ago...I will see this tomorrow but my expectations are much lower now. A great film couldn't possibly have this many haters. Cameron's biggest mistake was stealing the story from A massive multi Oscar winning movie that everyone's seen. If you're gonna steal, steal like Tarantino. From some Japanese shit that no-one's heard of. Taking the story from DWW smacks of arrogance. -
http://www.darkhorizons.com/reviews/996/Avatar
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strawman for some of you. You are letting Msnbc and the huffington create your thoughts. They are shaping you and shipping you out like Mcdonalds fucking fries. ou have a preconcieved notion of a Bush world. Stop it. He is gone.
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...some people have issues with Avatar because it didn't sweep them away; others are still in la-la land because of how pretty, coherent and complete the world they've discovered is. Suspension of disbelief is key because it leads to a suspension of critical thought. And for the record, I often judge films primarily on their screenplays, rarely because on their visuals (and I hate 90% of CGI). However, exceptions can be made, especially when a formula is supremely well executed. Basically, if you're into sci-fi/scuba-diving/ nature docus/ epic action, you have a pretty good chance of embracing this film unconditionally. You don't need to hate white people to enjoy it, you simply need to believe blue aliens exist. And you just might, come Fiona Lewis' indefensible vocalizations.
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Dec 19, 2009 7:13:48 AM CST
Alfie Boy, TARA REID'S PLAYBOY PICS HAVE MORE CGI THEN ALL OF AV
by tehcreepythinman
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is that four stars?
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Dec 19, 2009 7:18:04 AM CST
AudaAbuTayi, TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY IS ALREADY ORGANIC!!!
by tehcreepythinman
How else would you describe monitors and keyboards covered with cum from webporn?
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I have read good and soso reviews for this movie all day. What would be cool is someone that has seen it with a little cred, tell me if it is in the Aliens Terminator league.
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i wish i could say that. i wish my dick really exploded watching the film. i had expected no less from jim, but really... it ended up disappointing to me. derivative is fine as long as the end result becomes a different kind of beast altogether(like say, the matrix). here, it's hard to shake off all its influences, from mononoke hime to dances with wolves. and what happened to cameron's patented double climaxes? that was always the best moment in all his films. instead we got a huge battle with no strategy from both sides, followed by a forgetable machine vs na'vi duel in the jungle. weakest cameron's climax by far.
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I thought you were better thn that comment.
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Dec 19, 2009 7:23:40 AM CST
I SEE TECHNOLOGY BECOMING A CRONENBERGIAN HORRORSHOW AS.....
by tehcreepythinman
Future computers take on more organic traits while nerds the world over fuck their hard drives with their 3 1/2 inch floppy dicks
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was it his weakest flick to date?
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http://tinyurl.com/ybkjqy4
"More comparable to Avatar would be I Am Legend, the movie that currently holds the December opening weekend record ($77.2 million). Its midnight start was $1.7 million at around 1,100 sites, a mere fraction of its $30.1 million opening day. Another epic adventure with a long runtime like Avatar, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, earned around $4 million in its midnight debut, leading to an $18.2 million first day (though it opened on a Wednesday). Earlier this year, Watchmen logged $4.55 million out of the gate at midnight but fizzled quickly, while Star Trek blasted off with $4 million from Thursday night previews and had generated $79.2 million by Sunday." -
but you have typed very constructive most of the time
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...I made a nine-hour flight to see The Pantomime Mess part I ten years ago. I figured it was a blasphemous piece of shit about twenty minutes in (of course, you should check out the Red Folder Youtube review). Thankfully, I saw Payne's Election right afterwards and made first contact with a great director who revitalized my love for film. You won't want to watch another film for a couple of days after Avatar. I have DVDs of two allegedly great films at home (Twilight Samurai and Let the Right One In) that I really want/ need to see. But it would be unfair to them if I watched them now. Avatar isn't just "good" or "okay." I think people in denial can be found in the middle-of-the-road verdicts as well. To each his own denial but mine sure seems to feel more elating than theirs. Alas, I stutter: Avatar is the stuff geeks are made of.
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Will this movie end up in company with some of the best?
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I got some cousins coming down for Christmas, perhaps I can persuade them to get their eyeballs fucked!
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just want some input from fellow sfx fans.
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anyone ever see "The Hard Way"? Stephen Lang plays a crazy villain called The Party Crasher who when he's not shooting people he likes to play a customized PC game (starring himself) while chewing bubble gum and wearing a facial mask
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belong in the same breath as, Aliens Terminator, Matrix, Predator, Dis9 ?
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of what I have heard, that it is Star wars or Jaws caliber.
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Dec 19, 2009 7:43:01 AM CST
Harry - stay out of politics and stick to what you know best....
by retrace
Don't be "that guy". Every liberal kook on the left that has a little fame has this need to prove his political stupidity to everyone. It's sad.
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but it's not his finest moment either. still fall way short of aliens and T2 in my opinion.
but he's right about the 3D. it's a new way to see a film. it really brings film as a medium to the next level. your movie screen literally becomes a window to another world. to me, the tech innovation really is a game-changer. i just wish the hardware are applied to a more deserving story. by the time the tech becomes more common place in a few years, this film will lose much of its worth. -
Looks like Avatar has kicked all sorts of ass at the box office so far. Looks like a lot of you bitter little nerds got this whole "flop" thing completely wrong. Just like you got LOTR being a flop wrong.
Also, if no one has told you yet, talking about Star Wars is kind of embarrassingly lame these days. It's over nerds. Move on. -
You are right. But it is all sad. They got us all bitchin and complaining. We wont solve anything
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unbiased reviews is good
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I'm not expecting anything more than to be entertained by this. I expect eye-rollingly bad dialogue as long as the action and fx are good. If that's the case I'm gonna be happy, even if the Navi look like giant roided up smurf elves.
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this flick. Some say it is the second coming, and some say meh. Who is right on this one? It will be interesting to find out in time.
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meaning he distrusts corporations and human beings in general, and is anti-military and anti-technology. at the same time, like lucas, he is in love with the technology he despises, and like michael mann, loves to shoot shit. in other words, he's a cool guy, and might have an agenda, but at least he's not a pussy about it.
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...were grittier. But they were less magical. Still, I watch Aliens every six months like it's a religious ceremony... Hard to say. Avatar is a five-star film...to some, myself included. I couldn't spoil it for you if I tried because it is so immersive it needs to be experienced. I will say for certain that this is Cameron's best work since Abyss (which I loved). There, said it: Avatar is better than T2 in my book (but really, what's the point of ranking?). It's your own massive-scaled, personal, nay intimate, trip. Go figure out how it affects you by experiencing it. Forget OPOs (other people's opinions): get the first flight out for Pandora and make your own mind about it. At worse you'll feel you've wasted three hours and twelve bucks. At best, you'll be yearning to travel back to that far, far away planet for the bargain price of bad haircut.
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At first did we think "lets rock" would go over very well in Aliens? What about all the cheese in T2 and Titanic? Did the quotes in those movies stop them from becoming iconic? Have not seen it, but the feeling is icon cult on the level of trekkies and 77 Starwars. Could be wrong!
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Thanks brother, I gotsta go see it for myself!!
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Loved it, movie of 09 for me
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And Pandora is a moon, apologies to the nitpickers.
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they are either "glass half full or empty" type. You either overlook the negatives and focus on what you like about the flick, or you let the negatives overtake you and give the movie a thumbs-down regardless of what's good about it. Also, you either just sit back and let the movie carry you along, or you analyze every scene with a magnifying glass looking for flaws. IMHO, to call yourself a lover of film on one hand and to nit-pick every second of a movie is somehwat contradictory.
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My second favourite for the year is District 9, another must see
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Man, my aching back, having to stoop to his level.
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Everyone seemed to speak within character, not too many people spoke like they always had the perfectly worded response. Seemed on par with Aliens, another Cameron movie I loved.
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And dreams of blue pussy. Hey, I'm getting good at shoveling at these nards. Heh. Kinda fun.
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1: 'Left the story of Jesus behind'-really? Didn't leave Dances w/ Wolves Behind that's for damn sure. And how wazzat relevant again? 2: Lang rocks. About time he is in a big hit. 3: Ditto Cameron. Don't stay away so long next time. 3: Harold turning your reviews into Daily Kos defeats the purpose of the review seems. 4: Asslives go fuck yourself. GET OVER ABRAMS TREK. IT WAS A HUGE HIT. BUGGER OFF. GO BACK TO YOUR GOATS. 5: Mikey Bay needs to do the sequel. W/ robots.
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Easy Riders Raging Bulls is one of my favorite books about Hollywood. The other is The Gross by Peter Bart.
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when humans are portrayed as bloodsucking villains hellbent on destroying alien world, but when it's the reverse and we're attacked by alien invaders in movies, we just love giving them some payback. arrogant much?
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chalk and cheese really other than on the anticipation front. Princess Mononoke in space might be a better comparrison.
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Huge? not so much. The real huge was the pice of shit made by the other untalented hack, Transformers 2. Even on the realm of hackdoom, your beloved Jar Jar Abrams didn't even scored the biggest dumb movie of the year. And as long there will be retard slike you defending the Jar Jar Abram's SHIT TREK, there will be me putting it in it's right place. Deal with it.
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as a rule we aren't very good at taking criticism.
We are much better at laying blame elsewhere or denying the truth when it requires effort, i.e. climate change -
...I subscribe to your thoughts. Lawrence of Arabia had terrible makeup in the third act; Once Upon a Time in the West had similarly overdone makeup and bad lip-synching on a couple of Italian actors; there's a light-glare in the leopard's eyes in 2001: a space odyssey... yet many of us believe these are seminal, "perfect" films. You gotta love the flaws for making the works more human. Nobody's perfect and no movie ever is (except for Empire Strikes Back, Goodfellas and Sunset Boulevard).
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Sam was ok too, again the hate against him went really overboard, but can understand the comments re american accent, it slipped a lot. But if that is something that you really focus on then you seriously need to get out a bit more, meet a girl/guy
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Is using a gun a cheat for a hero, after all, it is a device that allows him to do what his body can't do? It becomes and extention of his will. Or what about the use of a knife? It can be said that Batman s part bionic, as he uses gizmos and gadgets to execute his work as a crime fghter...and stop the bad guys, from his utility belt, to his bat-a-rang...Batman is getting an assist from technology. Or what about the Jedi Knights and their use of Light Sabers, Lasers, or other technologies that work outside of the force, or in unison with the force and their wielders to render a desired result, to fight the bad guys and be the heroes. Luke Sky Walker was a disabled hero. He lost his hand in battle with Darth Vader, one that was replaced with a mechanical hand. He used that hand to assist in hiis heroic actions, that same with Anakin Skywalker, but should we negate their efforts, and simply claim that was a cheat?
As for the film, Avatar, to Jake's Avatar is no more than a car...or a Hum'vi (Humvie), as Harry calls it. Just think of it as a suped-up wheelchair; and we know plenty of disabled people today who use either automated wheelchairs, or some form of them, you'll note--even grocery stores have them for use by the disabled. So my point is this, just because a disabled person uses a mechanical device or biological entity, in the case of the film, to interact with others, and to equal the playing field with others, in the surrounding world, does not diminish what they contribute to the whole of society, through their resulting actions. Jake is a hero, regardless if he is disabled, or not...and if he was a pilot, he'd fly a copter to fight the bad guys, or if he were a computer tech, well...he'd use that. To him...an Avatar is like driving one of the mobile suits which the other able bodied humans were using, no different, save for Jake's mobile suit was, is, biologically grown. It is the mind, spirit, and heart...that makes a person a hero, through ones' expressed actions in how they use those 3 things to positively affect the world. How you get there doesn't matter, or with what device, hell, some could say that using crutches or a wheelchair, or even a cane is a cheat, because they are born of technology, no matter how crude. You shouldn't have to crawl to prove your mettle, or do without the assist of technology, just look at Stephen Hawking for instance, should we deny him his computers, those that assist him to speak, and say that that is a cheat...and that he can't be a real hero without such a device???
And the same with Roger Ebert, should we deny him his word processor...and say that he is somehow a lesser man unless he can do without it? He is still as good a critic as he was before his vocal chords were silenced--he simply uses a word processor as an interface to interact with the rest of the world, much like Jake uses an Avatar to interface with Pandora, and act as he would most like to, to save others, as that is what heroes do. Should that make him, any less of a hero? I think not! -
Avatar doesn't rape your eyeballs- it makes love to them!
But no way is it going to make its money back...at least not in the usual first weekend way. Even considering the fact that most of this country was snowed in, that theatre was way too empty. Get word-of-mouthing, yo! -
The things I didn't like about Avatar is the scripts crutch on Jakes narration. The narration really sucked the life out of it. Some of it was obvious and some of it should have been shown to bring us up to speed on "who is Jake Sully". I wish we got to know and empathize with Jake before Pandora. If we saw the withering Earth and Jakes boredom it would have gave the film a little more weight. It also would have been a better lead up to Pandora. I actually even think this was cheesier than Titanic. It had these gigantic operatic moments. I also wish the tribes spoke with different otherworldly phonetics. Like maybe if they spoke in tones or noises.
Other than that it was a great ride. I actually like the simple story. It was like a wonderfully told fairytale. It's simple nature has a charm to it. Yes it was cheesy at times, but it worked along side of the outlandish colors displayed upon the screen.
The 3D aspect of it was superbly used. Once we reach the battle in the woods, I really felt as if I was there ducking behind the branches. Right then and there made me realize how much I miss the orchestration of Cameron's action sequences. Kind of like that moment when the big boat, Titanic, goes down.
I still think Titanic is more epic though. There's was something about the detail in the nature of the world with in Titanic that made it seem more epic. The detail of the workers on the ship with there day to day. The detail in the separation of the classes gave it scope. You really had a sense of the characters on all sides of the ship.
Here we really didn't get to really know much about some of the members of the tribe. We had many chances too, but he kept needling in his love and wonder aspect of the film. I think it would have felt grander if Jake saw Pandora with different tribe members. It would have shown us Pandora through different eyes and gave weight to the other characters inhabiting it. I kind of wish we had more understanding of a Marines life on Pandora and what it meant to them. If we had Rodriguez's character interacting with the day to day. Seeing the Scientists running off to the jungle, while she sat with in the industry walls could have lent to a more realized world.
So basically my main complaint is that although told in a grand scope and presented in a grand nature, it just missed the mark of being epic. I love the boldness of Cameron's design. There is definitely no other film that looks like it. It's definitely a worthwhile experience at the movies. There's just little things here and there that a better script writer could have fleshed out. I really hope he collaborates with a scriptwriter on things like Battle Angel Alita.
I think my favorite scene that really captures the essence of Cameron's film is when he flies his first dragon with Neytiri. It really used the 3D aspect really well and it made you understand Cameron's simple idea to just please the crowd. In that sense it really grounded the film. It wasn't forced. It was a simple scene of a man and his dragon off in world that is only left to dreams. That really made me smile. That's all one can ask for a film of this nature.
Oh and I'm glad that we had a year in which District 9, Star Trek, Transformers 2, Moon and this all felt monumentally different from each other. Each one had it's own rhythm and style. Whether you liked them or not, it's just wading the water for what's to come.
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quote of the year
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i don't post here all that much. i think it's silly to voice an opinion when opinions are so frivolous. i mean really, should i give a shit what someone else thinks (good or bad) about a movie i like or dislike. should anyone give a fuck if i hate their favorite flick. it's all subjective.
now, with that said i need every one to know how much i hate avatar. i hated every frame of this movie. harry says "AVATAR is unlike anything I’ve seen before" no harry, i say bullshit. avatar is like everything i've ever seen before - and that is just one of 1001 reasons why i hate - dare i say loath this film. -
I really don't think he should make this into a trilogy. I think this works as one time tale. I'd rather see new worlds and different themes from Cameron.
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Like all thinking men he's wary of its excesses and abuses. Every educated and intelligent man has those thoughts in their mind, particularly the men who actually develop and use that technology. Oppenheimer the father of the bomb was the one most wary of its potential. Low class grunts are the ones who blindly follow ideology in lieu of having an individual moral compass on a case by case basis (and I'm pointing the finger at both conservatives and liberals, radicals on both sides basically having the identical personality flaws). I'll put it simply for you. If you're the type who believes as a blanket statement "technology/war is bad" or "technology/war is good" you're one of the low intellects I'm talking about. Technology cannot be good or evil, those are conditions of human behavior. Anthropomorphizing things like technology and war... is a clear sign of an illogical and uneducated mind. Technology nor war can be moral or immoral of itself. The only morality comes in with how a society choses to use a particular technology and for what purpose they conduct war. Supporting a particular war has nothing to do with conservative or liberal, it never has been going back to the time of Athens and the Peloponnesians. Supporting a PARTICULAR war has everything to do with intellect and logic. War is a fundamental human condition. Every great society (including the US with WWII) has risen on the back of victory in war and fallen under the heel of lost or overly costly wars. Any rational man will support any war that supports his national interests and profits the state in the long run in terms of power, prestige and economics and oppose any that profits others or is damaging to the state. Lesser men will cling to a foolish consistency along the lines of "I'm a Liberal so I oppose this and all wars" or "I'm a Conservative so I support any war." As for Avatar, lost in the discussion is the fact that protagonist isn't representative of his culture. Obviously any moral person involved in a expoitative enterprise will have concerns but there's no reason to think that the average "human" would react as he did to the degree that he did. This is a particular case of an individual who basically has reason to feel lost/begrudge his place in his own society (along the lines of disgruntled arab americans who might go join Al Quaeda... it's not representative of all Americans in general or of all arab americans... most of us Americans are happy sitting around eating big macs while our cruise missles bomb out hospitals and schools and kids die from conditions of war that we created). There's no reason to expect that human beings will be sufficiently evolved in a century to actually give a damn any more than we do today... Avatar is a particular story about a particular individual not a blanket statement of any kind. Cameron's message for you dullards isn't that war is bad or that technology is evil but as a nation founded on taking land not only from Indians but the Spanish, Mexicans, French and British is to be AWARE and contemplative of what the costs were. Often advancement does come with a cost. It doesn't mean we go backwards but moral men understand what the cost was. We aint giving back the land to the Indians obviously but every American should at least be reflective of where the land has come from and resolve to be worthy as a nation of that cost
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Chicks and chaps, if you wanna UK review - check out Glenn's review here
http://filmtwats.com/filmtwa1/?p=1432
and Chris' review here
http://filmtwats.com/filmtwa1/?p=1427
Let us know what you think? All comments welcome - no reg required. -
I can understand your point, but at the same time you have to remember Cameron has given us two of the best sequels ever, Aliens and Terminator 2
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learn from the Matrix example, I loved the movie but want Cameron to use this technology, his imagination and move onto something else.
Battle Angel would be cool, part of me would want him to adapt Neon Genesis into "live" action. Want to see big robots done well, and I know Jim could pull it off. -
...because I've never seen anything quite like Avatar. And if it's "like everything you've ever seen before," does that mean that you hate everything you've ever seen? Logically, that would be the case, all syllogisms aside.
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now lets see what use StarWars puts this tech....more Gungans anybody??????
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2 months ago the firestorm on this site was how the 3D and CGI looked bad in the trailers and how the technology wouldn't live up to the hype. since the bitching and moaning has moved on to cry about Liberal bias and not a peep about bad CGI it's safe to assume all those morons are eating crow?
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in certain scenes foreground objects, like leaves or jellywish would appear blurry. i assume if objects are blurry they're supposed to have 3d effect. but when they stayed blurry, does it mean my theater didnt operate at full capacity? everything else looked great in 3D though, it's just when things are in close foreground that they tend to be blurry.
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Dec 19, 2009 9:09:07 AM CST
Titanic Opened-Up At 25 Million For Its Opening Weekend...
by media messiah
As I recall, 25 million was the entire take for the first weekend of Titanic's release, and it just continued to go. I think the next weekend after that, the film scored another 25 million, and on and on--so to those trying to claim this is a bomb, we won't know until Christmas weekend or well into the first or second week of the New Year.
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With fairly mixed performances from unsuspected places. Zoe Saldana was fantastic and Sam Worthington did a serviceable job, I would have preferred he used his real accent but then I could say Earth has become pretty multicultural by that time and accents have mixed.
Good god though, real 3d Imax was stunning! That opening scene in the chryo chamber was insanely cool. People in the theater actually gasped and one guy in the front row would shut up about it. I felt like I could actually smell foliage on Pandora and wa completely convinced by the Navi. If I hadn't seen it in Imax 3d though, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much. -
Thank you James Cameron. Seriously they were. The visuals in this movie were amazing. I was one of the people who were worried that the Na'vi would end up looking like a bunch of Jar-Jar Binks running around acting like morons. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are entirely believable from the start. I am officially in love with Zoe now. An amazing performance. I thought Jake was a little wooden at times but that is a minor complaint. Sigourney Weaver was amazing as well, kinda scary how much her Avatar really looked like her. Saw this in a standard 3D screena and cannot wait to go back and see it in IMAX. The story is absolotely Dances With Wolves. I take exception that Harry would say that I have a lazy mind. But do not let that stop you from seeing this movie. Dances with Wolves was a great movie. Avatar just brings it to another entirely believable world.
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Is using a gun a cheat for a hero, after all, it is a device that allows him to do what his body can't do? It becomes an extention of his will. Or what about the use of a knife? It can be said that Batman is part bionic, as he uses gizmos and gadgets to execute his work as a crime fghter...and stop the bad guys, from his utility belt, to his bat-a-rang...Batman is getting an assist from technology. Or what about the Jedi Knights and their use of Light Sabers, lasers, or other technologies that work outside of the force, or in unison with the force and their wielders to render a desired result, to fight the bad guys and be the heroes of their tale. Luke Skywalker was a disabled hero. He lost his hand in battle with Darth Vader, one that was replaced with a mechanical hand. He used that hand to assist in his heroic actions, the same with Anakin Skywalker, but should we negate their efforts, and simply claim that, that was a cheat?
As for the film, Avatar, to Jake, his Avatar is no more than a car, or a Hum'vi (Humvie), as Harry calls it. Just think of it as a suped-up wheelchair; and we know plenty of disabled people today who use either automated wheelchairs, or some form of them, you'll note--even grocery stores have them on hand for use by the disabled. So my point is this, just because a disabled person uses a mechanical device or biological entity, in the case of the film, to interact with others, and to equal the playing field with others, in the surrounding world, does not diminish what they contribute to the whole of society, through their resulting actions. Jake is a hero, regardless if he is disabled, or not...and if he was a pilot, he'd fly a copter to fight the bad guys, or if he were a computer tech, well...he'd use that. To him, an Avatar is like driving one of the mobile suits which the other able bodied humans were using, no different, save for Jake's mobile suit was, is, biologically grown. It is the mind, spirit, and heart...that makes a person a hero, through ones' expressed actions in how they use those 3 things to positively affect the world. How you get there doesn't matter, or with what device, hell, some could say that using crutches or a wheelchair, or even a cane is a cheat, because they are born of technology, no matter how crude. You shouldn't have to crawl to prove your mettle, or do without the assist of technology, just look at Stephen Hawking for instance, should we deny him his computers, those that assist him to speak, and say that this is a cheat...and that he can't be a real hero without such a device??? And the same with Roger Ebert, should we deny him his word processor...and say that he is somehow a lesser man unless he can do without it? He is still as good a critic as he was before his vocal chords were silenced--he simply uses a word processor as an interface to interact with the rest of the world, much like Jake uses an Avatar to interface with Pandora, and act as he would most like to, to save others, as that is what heroes do. Should that make him, any less of a hero? I think not! -
But, I'm just not sure If I feel the need to revisit this. Unless it's about rebuilding Earth and saving it from total destruction. OR Cameron creates another universe in which humans travel too and suddenly need the Navi's help.
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I really don't get all the hate that's being dumped on this movie, by various movie geek sites. I would rather embrace a movie like "Avatar" or "Star Trek," which brim with passion, heart and soul, than assembly line pieces of junk like "Transformers." And for me, Zoe Saldana just killed in the movie; she practically had me in tears in the story's second half.
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Act like your packing more than 4 inches you dickless faggot.
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...the most recent example of a resounding success, FX-wise, was Benjamin Button. I felt Star Trek's effects were quite good and haven't seen (won't ever) Transformers 2. Avatar just ranks with the best optical FX ever (Blade Runner, the OT, Aliens, Thing, the analog parts of LOTR). Forget hating on the CGI, it would be mere folly. You can hate the designs, not the rendering. I wasn't a huge fan of the 3D, however, since the film packs so much detail it's a bit much. I am now very impatient to see this Hollywood-liberal's agenda in 2D. Despite the fact that it will brainwash me into tree-hugging submission because I have no mind of my own and I am totally vulnerable to devious pamphlets preaching peace and harmony (like Jesus' pamphlet: The New Testament which I've thankfully never read).
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now.
I'm still amazed by what was displayed on screen. Especially the scenes in which the characters are submersed with it's environment. The mud on Jake, the ashes falling from the sky onto the bodies, and Jakes leap into the water after the Thenator chase. Amazing detail.
I love Cameron's attention to detail but what makes it work is also his sense of application. It all feels natural. So I'm CRAZY EXCITED for "Alita". BUT as a screenwriter I'd rather he worked with someone. Someone to push him in another direction. I want to see more from Cameron. -
Even though I felt Cameron pushed the operatic side a bit... she really owned that role.
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but movies that make statements against things that are universally accepted as evil and immoral can not be 'propaganda' lol. To say it's propaganda insinuates that there is actually a question as to whether or not it's wrong to go to an alien planet, wipe out it's sentient inhabitants, then proceed to harvest all it's resources. It is in fact wrong. There's no question. Ergo, it's not 'propaganda'. That's like saying a movie that rallies against kicking babies is 'liberal propaganda'. All making that statement does is infer that you in some way disagree that it's wrong to kick babies. Which only serves to highlight your own shortcomings.
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just saying
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someone confirmed to me that in some scenes the jellyfish, little bugs, leaves, etc are supposed to wonder off the screen and into the audience. nothing came out off the screen where i saw it! fuck my theater! i saw it in south east asia by the way.
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http://marquee.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/17/avatar-already-selling-out-weekend-box-offices/
Avatar’s enormous budget may well be worth it. The James Cameron 3D adventure flick, opening tonight at midnight, has already sold out hundreds of showtimes across the country, according to online ticket-seller Fandango... -
Dec 19, 2009 9:42:44 AM CST
PALIN CLAIMS BLIZZARD GOD'S WILL TO THWART LIBERAL AVATAR
by bringingsexyback
She didn't actually say that. But the sad truth is it's not outside the realm of possibility that she did.
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Jake needed to be wasting away and getting sicker and weaker as he neglects his "real life" and chooses to live more in his avatar. This was hinted at, but it should have been dramatic so that by the time his lover Neytiri finds his real body in the trailer (or whatever it was), she sees just a shriveled weak wasted worm of a man, and nothing like the strong warrior she fell in love with. And then, in that context, she looks upon him and says, "I see you!" and she embraces him with love because she has come to love the spirit of the man, and not just his warrior prowess. And then have him near death at the end, but the tree does its magic and then you have a real happy ending, both a tragedy (his real body dies from neglect) and hope (rebirth at the tree). This would give the film and the love story much more needed punch.
Otherwise, as it stands, I did not believe the love story. Neytiri seems to just go for the strongest warrior, and that is very superficial on her part. As soon as Jake falls on hard times (suspected as a betrayer) she dumps him. And then as soon as he swoops in on the biggest bird, she loves him again. She is like a girl who goes for whoever is driving the snazziest car. That is just superficial, and I wanted to see her go beyond that, and love Jake even as a worm (see above). That would have been growth in her character; sad it never happened.
Other gripe is that Cameron likes his women to be Rambo. Ok, you have can one female rambo per movie (e.g. Sarah Connor), but in Avatar *every* woman is rambo: Neytiri, Rodrigez, and Ripley. The film needed someone to play a girl (not a Xena). So I was hoping Neytiri would become somewhat more feminine (in the traditional sense). Even the love scene was cut short. The actress voicing Neytiri seemed to be all venon, and 99% of her lines are spat out. So this hurt the love story aspect, since she was a spitting cat and never became a cuddly cat. And for most humans, it's all about the love story, cf. Titanic, which remains Cameron's greatest triumph, and my favorite.
Meanwhile the girl Neytiri seemed superficial as noted above, so I didn't really like her, and she is not the kind of girl/character I would ever fall in love with.
Jake was kind of equivocal since he seemed to be playing both sides, and you get the feeling that if the Marines had beat the Na'vi, then he would have quickly assimilated back into human society. He is duplicitous, and when he gets caught on tape smashing the video cameras, you know he wished he could have remained sneaky, and he would have prefered to have not been outed. So he was very comfortable playing both sides, (which makes him a despicable character) and he was embarrassed to be outed. I would have prefered him to take a stand, rather than been caught on tape to his chagrin. I would have liked him to be wasting away (see above) and then get into a shoving match with Quaritch, which would have shown his courage to take a stand, but it would simultaneously been pathetic since he was a wheel bound skeleton, and then later in the final man to man fight have him enter into a shoving match again with Quaritch, but this time in his avatar body, where the tables are turned. So anyway, the Jake character was kind of spineless, and Quaritch's summary of him is true: he found "local tail" and went with it. In a sense Jake is as superficial as Neytiri: they both side with whoever is winning, with whoever is driving the biggest car, and whoever is paying out the most.
It's all about the characters, and the character I sympathized the most with was the military dude Quaritch: a fatherly figure trying to protect his people and do his job. You can tell he has a simple mind and does not grasp the treehugger perspective, but you can forgive him that since he is not a man of great enlightenment. You can't fault him for lacking a higher level of consciousness to tune in with the trees. He's meat and potatoes, and it's kind of sad to see him go.
Quaritch should be on the first expedition (a special one time tag-along so he can "get the tree hugger vibe") when Jake's avatar goes into the forest and meets the hammerhead rhino. In that scene, Quaritch should save Jake's avatar's life by distracting the black panther thing, firing on it and saying, "Come here - come to papa!" and the panther momentarily goes to Quaritch and deals him a blow, but then the panther runs off after Jake's avatar anyway. This way Quaritch effectively saves Jake's avatar's life at risk to his own life and limb. And then when they are flying away at night and Ripley says "He won't last the night," Quaritch should say, "D*mn jungle; I wish it were a parking lot!" Ant the audience should kind of agree with him, and know where Quaritch is coming from when he later starts burning down the forest.
Also, this would make Quaritch's final encounter with the black panther a "rematch". And in the final man to man fight with Jake's Avatar, Jake should be telling Quaritch to back off, saying he does not want to kill him (because Quaritch formerly saved his life) and at one moment Jake should be able to slit Quaritch's throat but he refrains because of his respect for Quaritch, but then Quaritch gets the upperhand, unpulgs Jake, and then Neytiri finishes off Quaritch with the bow. This way there is much more dynamic in the relationship between Jake and Quaritch, and more at play in their final fight then just "kill the bad guy." In fact, when Jake comes to and is revived, he should see the dead Quaritch and say, "No, no!" singerely mourning his friend, and Neytiri should say, "You should thank me - I killed him for you!" but he should say "There is nothing to be thankful for here..." forming a bookend to his first encounter with Neytiri when she mourned the death of the little panthers. -
Firstly, I have never felt so immersed in a film and surely that's what escapism is all about? Right? On that level this is the greatest film I have ever seen however I take on board people's reservations about the by the numbers plotline and so so acting (Zoe Zaldana aside) BUT my minor hangup was, how did they know when to wake up Jake on a day by basis. without his Avatar collapsing? Do they go to bed (hammock) at the same time every night?
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they didn't have the internet, hence no late night porn
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your ideas are good, but there are many ways to improve the dynamic of the characters. that's why it's a shame cameron chose to settle on the most obvious and simplistic one.
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They could wake themselves up, as seen with jake waking up mid fight to hold his breath or the other scientist waking up after his avatar had been shot.
As for improvements with avatar, fair enough that you feel that way, a lot of movies could have different additions to change the story but I had no issue with what was there. I don't think neytiri was nescessarily superficial, she grew close to jake while being with him over a period of time. Falling out with him was only natural, he had betrayed her, she was angry, and what was said was easily clouded by emotion at that moment.
Also Quaritch may have been easy to sympathise with from a human standpoint, but he was itching for a fight (snapping at jake when he told him about gaining their trust before the ceremony), he may have looked after his own, but he had no concern for what he was destroying either. -
taming a wild horse requires patience, skill, understanding, and respect for the creature. the same goes for taming a wild lion, or a grizzly bear, or any other wild beasts. it's not a skill anyone could just acquire overnight. it took years of dedication. but it seems with the na'vi all it needs to tame/bond with any wild creature is just to plug your socket into theirs. and that makes the na'vi less badass than human in my eye.
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had the chance for the first american film to have actual tentacle love on screen. I mean given how the Navi connect with it's universe I'm really surprised he overlooked that.
Man. That's a giant missed opportunity of tentacle love. -
I remember that Sam was in college, I remember the cool chase scene at the first, the goofy racist robots, I remember seeing the woods at one point, and a pyramid. Other than that, it's a complete blank. I have no recollection of what it was about, how the plot progressed or even what happened at the end. The only other time that happened to me was the movie Solo with Mario Van Peebles. I forgot everything about that movie literally a day after seeing it. Transformers 2 must have really, really sucked.
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Technology that serves only to destroy and kill = bad thing
I don't see how anyone can't make that distinction. -
wouldnt tentacle love be overkill in this case?
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Dec 19, 2009 10:26:45 AM CST
WHEN FOXNEWS IS ISSUING TALKING POINT AGAINST AVATAR
by bringingsexyback
You know you're doing something right. Go Jim.
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Dec 19, 2009 10:30:24 AM CST
IN SOME EXISTENTIAL WAY WE ARE PLUGGING SOCKETS IN TALKBACKS
by bringingsexyback
I felt it most strongly in the Baleback.
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Can you smell it through my socket?
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Though if Fox news is talking crap about Avatar its further proof that Fox News is totally about pandering to the paranoid lazy retards of the world, and some of the presenters are actually just crazy and its not all about Murdoch's corporate agenda
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The picture quality really suffered on my screen. RealD with I believe a Sony 4K projector which I think yields 2K in 3D (AMC Northpark 15 Dallas). Just very mutted colors/picture, not enough resolution, and just did not pop. I kind of like the 3D effect, but not at the expense of the overall other aspects of the picture. And that took me out of the story too much. And eye strain. I am 40ish and the changing of focal distance got to me.
But I liked the transformation of Jake into a native and stopping of the genocide.
I would love to see this in 2D IMAX or 2D 4K digital. But that is impossible I think. Too bad. My guess is I am in some 1% camp and most others will take the 3D good over the bad. -
or anything. It's like a mind hug. Heh. But the visual of the tentacles locking together to form that bond could have been epic.
We use our hands to gently pet creatures. But it's not the same when you're holding tight someone you love.
TENTACLE LOVE DAMMIT! Heh. -
It generates controversy. Fox and Avatar are both NewsCorp properties. Murdoch is a diabolical genius who created an empire based on cognitive dissonance. The man knows what he's doing, love him or hate him.
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nips.
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I don`t think so.....
ok movie overall. -
Dec 19, 2009 10:39:59 AM CST
HAVE YOU EVER REACHED OUT DURING A 3D MOVIE AND ENDED UP
by bringingsexyback
stroking the head of the person sitting in front of you? Embarassing!
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The doctors are in!!!
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ROFLMAO!!!!
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That's the problem. People keep trying to make this personality free guy a leading man. And funny, I found this to be more of a review for books by Burroughs or films Cameron has already made. And I've heard more people bitching about either the environmental message or how there aren't any gays or lesbians, or how it portrays this group badly or this group isn't represented, Fox did this or liberals say that - all that does is remind me that regardless of what some of these reviews say, there isn't a story thick enough to be shoveled. Just enough to hold the effects together. A game changer from an F/X point of view, but a truly forgettable story from my POV.
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..."My problem/question is a little long and complicated, so please bear with me.I am a recovering incest porn addict. I have been working long and hard...very long, and very hard on my problem. With dedication and the help of my loving family I thought I had finally managed to get my addiction under control.Recently I saw the movie AVATAR...and found the blue Avatar people overwhelmingly sexy...I can't stop fantasizing about them. Unfortunately, the movie's message that all of nature in interconnected and interrelated has re-ignited my incest porn addiction. I'm getting a blister!...I don't know what do do..."Signed,Name Withheld
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loves a movie about a guy in a wheelchair. Who would have figured?
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Cameron's the one who spent 10+ years swiping story elements from several flicks, all better than this tripe. This review is just a spooge fest to Cameron. It's a real shame when so many can't see what's right in front of their faces. This is not a great movie, it barely classifies as good. Once again tech won out over story and character cuz this flick has none of the latter.
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did wizard of oz? if you were in charge we would still be watching b&w silent movies.
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blue body paint will be flying out of shops
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I don't see the problem. You just need lube and some privacy. Enjoy.
Regards,
Drs. Geek -
..."my boyfriend is obsessed with the movie AVATAR. Not only does he insist I paint my body blue on sex night, but he only wants to rub his penis on my eyeballs. I tried offering him oral and anal and all the other disgusting things he likes, but it's no use. He only wants to touch my eyeballs with his penis. I don't want to do this, and I wear contacts, so it isn't pleasurable for me.Is there hope for this relationship?Signed,Eye Of The Beholder
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Bring on Father Geek's review... Free Rome!Harry, I love your sense of wonder when a movie takes you to a place you've only ever dreamed of. You(a true believer if ever there was one)feel that more acutely than most people, but at bottom it helps to remain GROUNDED. Being swept away by a movie is all good & well, but on some intrinsic level it has to be earned... and IMO "Avatar" failed in that regard.
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The idea of something like a " Warp Drive " is looking more lkely all the time for future interstellar travel. Harry should watch the Science Channel more. In my lifetime it's gone from " We don't know how it would work " to " It can't work " to an actual equation that shows how it might work. Pretty impressive for 40 years of speculation.
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you probably wont even see this post...but i like liberal rant movies
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and prophets have always been persecuted
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but i would suggest that if your boyfriend insist on rubbing his dong on your eyeballs, that you also insist back that you want your vagina be rubbed against his nostrils. if he say yes, then he is a man's man and you should be proud to keep him.
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Look, EVERYONE should see this, in 3d. I would pick it, at this point in time, as in the top 10 best films of all time. (3d is here to stay and it's my hope that a true cinematic GREAT will emerge as the genius of the format.. maybe even Cameron himself on a future project)But the story? I loved this movie, but it genuinely lifted almost all of it's elements from existing works(which you pretty much say). And there was just a tiny, itty bitty bit of something just.. missing. Miniscule. And it was related to the way the story was told and the characters. However, having said that, I can live with that. Why? Because it wasn't a sequel, it wasn't based on an old tv show, game or comic. It was not a remake. If it was written by the bass player for Molly Hatchet on napkins in a strip club, you should support it. And the payoff is so great visually, why worry about anything else? Just go and enjoy the hell out of it because it's the closest we've ever been to being IN a place that does not exist in physical space. And that's pretty damned revolutionary. It took guts, talent, vision and real work to get this baby up on screen. And it shows. No hype. It's just worth trying.
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I forgot to mention this earlier, but when the credits rolled and that GOD AWFUL SONG started I had to sit thru the credits to see who was responsible for such a horrid piece of shit. Is that really what Cameron wanted to leave his audience with as they left the theaters?? Total fucking sellout. BTW it was Leona Lewis. Why James, WHY????
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All I can advise is to kiss and lick the balls. It'll speed things up. Keep Visine at the ready and remember, if you don't do it for your man, some other chick will.
Respectfully,
Drs. Geek -
Is a $75 million opening weekend a bomb? Idiot. Think before you type next time.
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I knew he had a golfcart full of comics run over him or something. Don't laugh... just one longbox-full of those suckers is pretty fn heavy! I just thought because of his uh... gravitational density, he had to use a Hov-A-Round at times. Man, stuck in a chair 24-7... sux, man. And I can see why having his own Avatar would be an ideal for the Big Guy and influence his review. I could just imagine what he could do with the Na'Vi's "bio/botanical internet", too. All the clumsier, socially awkward Na'Vi who are useless as warriors would find their savior in good ol' Harry and "Ain't It Fan-dora News". Anyway, haven't seen the film yet because I'm stuck in the Blizzard of '09 and everything is impassable out there. Maybe next week. Sux. I need a frigging giant snowbeast-avatar.
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"I'm really into the new movie AVATAR and I like my girlfriend to paint herself blue on sex night. I also want to touch her eyeballs with my penis (it has to do with my addiction to talkbacks on a certain website, but that's a separate problem). Anyway, I'm very gentle, so I don't see why this should be a problem.Recently she has started wearing novelty sunglasses, the kind with big googly eyes painted on them and goofy Elton John style windshield wipers during sex (http://tinyurl.com/nog8so and http://tinyurl.com/ygxm344).This is a big turnoff for me, it's just not the same thing. How do I get her to satisfy my needs? Is this normal?".Signed,Eye Dr. Feelgood
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OK... Okay. So this girl is a total zero. That's true. But just think back to when you guys were AICN freshmen:BSB... you had a face like a pizza. A nice, big pepperoni pizza. With mushrooms... but no anchovies; I hate anchovies. And Ebonic_Plague. Everybody thought the Plague was brain damaged. I myself was so obnoxious, Mr. Beaks used to beat me up once a week. So this girl is a total loser? Well let me tell you the story of another loser...(phantom mention of Script Girl, and I avoid hexing us all by putting this in parentheses).
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"And for the record, I often judge films primarily on their screenplays..."
That's like going house-hunting by looking at a bunch of blueprints. -
It means this one resembles an actual great film. And you can go fuck yourself.
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Exactly.
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Computers inside of human bodies that stimulate nerves and chemical receptors. That read record and decipher the chemical and electrical signals your body makes to read your mind, and record and transmit your emotions and physical sensations to others. A body/mind/inner visual Internet if you will. A computer inside you that can literally decipher your inner thoughts and voice and transmit it to others you wish to share with. Everything you feel and experience. Down to your 1:1 retention of what you saw/are seeing- even how you move, all of it can be sent 1:1 to others you want to share it with. Inner secrets no longer possible, your opinions and thoughts including your feelings are no longer yours alone. This computer can stimulate everything it monitors inside the body. Including the visual cortex of the mind. It is capable of transmitting images directly to the brain. Thing is the computer inside the body is small and not as complex as you would think it would be. It's more like a receiver and transmitter that's wireless linked to bigger real world computers outside of the body. They will be everywhere like wifi is, or cellphone towers. It really and truly will be a new type of Internet and entertainment experience. You are hurt in some way and your partner or family will sense the same pain. Ir face recognition GPS internal devices- where you are who you are what you are doing what you are thinking how you are feeling, all of it knowable in milliseconds.
What you see is recorded and future tech is able to decipher it as a total object from your limited view of it. this can be rebroadcast it in complete spatial 3d dimensions to anyone you wish to share it with. The way you watch movies or play video games- Well, they sort of converge into one medium. These would be entertainment packages that you would experience with in your environment. no one will watch tv's anymore, they wont make any sense in this world. Surfing the net would be no different I mean all you have to do is wonder about something and this computer will access that information and provide it to you right into your mind. You will heard the answer or see the answer to your ponder.
Ok so the whole movie game thing,,,,, As I said no more. You receive entertainment packages. and these package's are literally virtual experience's. Since the computer can stream images directly to the brain. You could download a murder/horror mystery with your friends and family as the victims, and it would seem as if they really are being killed as the package plays out when in actually they are fine, stuff like that. The virtual characters streamed into your reality will appear to be as real as anything real actually is. Unlike a ghost image if they actually walk into something and it's supposed to fall over- in the real world it wont fall over- but here's where it gets strange- the computers recording your visual stream it deciphers that object and it knocks it over as an image in your mind, even as your field of view moves around the computer knows how to display it knocked over and it remains that way no even as your field of view and view location changes. This is a very primitive example. If the pack decided to place a hole in the floor- and you walked over it you would fall into the hole and the computer would stimulate the fluid pressure in your inner ear giving you the sensation of falling. the computer would monitor your real environment to protect you from walking into to something and it would curtain over your real environment with the fake one. If your in danger of walking into something it will trick your mind into thinking you are walking when in actually it you are not. Basically anything actual can be tampered with and the experiences you play will seem as real as reality it self. In fact some people may wonder around with a false companions or aid at all times. So really no more films or games just 1:1 experiences with virtual scenarios that are visually and psychically as real as reality itself, and can interact with you and your environment at a 1:1 level. Remember I said the computer also stimulates nerves and receptors in the brain as well. If the character touches you or hits you, you will feel it. It's going to be a strange world indeed. There will be literally no privacy at all, but the way in which you can communicate with others will be so inner personal- it may very well advance us into the peace we strive for amongst one another. Cancer will be defeated completely by this time. We will find ways to trigger cellular changes to fix cells that are doing bad things. No one will be in wheelchairs and no one will be permanently deformed or damaged. We may very well live to be 3-5 times older than we do now and never psychically age on the outside. Energy as someone else said will all come from the sun. Water filters will make all types of water reusable, and water will power engines. It already has been done- but that guy was killed. Oils will be made from other freely available resources. We already make tires out of oranges. The future will not be a scary place of depleted resources/dying environment. It will be a utopia, and this Internet will be seen as a very crude level of communication and information sharing. -
yeah that's a word I coined myself to better describe the world Jim has created. I sent out an email blast to Peter, Zach, and Jim to see what they thought....it all bounced back....but that's beyond the point. In Avaturd lore that phrase has now been coined, by me, so from now on that is how we will refer to humans in their Na'vi form.
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But I liked it. Fun movie. The villains were too simplified, much like Titanic.
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what harry has to say yet, but if he describes this movie as "absolute bliss" just once, i'm outta here.
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http://www.ruthlessreviews .com/9651/avatar/
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"Avatar is a great technology in search of a halfway decent movie."
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Regardless of how good it is, no film should cost 300 million plus with today's economy. It's absurd. No movie should cost more than 150 million. I think there should be a salary cap for actors and a budget cap for filmmakers. It forces imagination and skill to kick in, discourages laziness and eliminates the "throw money at the problem" solution. Most of my favorite movies of all time cost under 25 million. If there was a budget cap, we could have been spared Transformers 1 & 2.
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seriously, the movie blew my mind....its so beautiful, epic, spiritual.....stunning STUNNING entertainment.
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Avatar will have a blow-out opening weekend, probably one of the best ever. That's what the studios have been buying with the commercials, TV series tie-ins and cross-references, billboards, etc.
The legs of the movie won't be more clear until the next couple weekends, when the amount of dropoff can be seen.
Titanic survived on repeat business; same with LoTR. King Kong was never able to muster it. Let's see what Avatar can do... -
Sort of, at least for most of us we got a decent movie out of it. Doesn't excuse terminator salvation and transformers 2 though.
Decent directors should be rewarded with higher budgets, provided they at least show it on screen. For similar money we got the jumbled mess action scenes of transformers and the only highlight of all of T:S, a 30 second cameo from arnie. -
looks like cgi overload to me, i'll pass.
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that with its length it's limited to 4 showings a day rather then 5-6 normally. I've heard about $367 million approx cost not the $500 mil a lot of fuckers are saying. The shit invented for this movie will help lower the cost for future movies, especially Cameron's movies, like Avatar II and III (if Avatar is profitable).
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It will break records internationally, and make plenty of money over the Holiday weeks here. 80 million on the first weekend for a movie with no source material (lets be honest, to break 100 million on the first weekend, you have to be a superhero movie, will smith, or based on a fantasy book), so considering its based on basically nothing and will still make that much, along with mostly positive word of mouth...Avatar is a success. It's not going to be Titanic successful, but itll make a nice profit. Good riddance to the foolish haters. I'm going to see it tonight.
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Cameron and budgets:
Terminator 2 was the first movie with a budget over $100 million. People made all sorts of comments then and that movie has a huge hit.
Titanic: Another movie that had a huge budget and tons of talk of how crazy the budget/budget was. Biggest film of all time.
Avatar: Another big budget. Cameron needs bigger budgets because the stuff he attempts to do is so hard.
His advances in film usually end up working their way to a lot of following films. -
Dec 19, 2009 1:53:37 PM CST
Hey creepy, are you dannyglover------blood reincarnated?
by coughlins laws
I just really don't understand liberals. They preach tolerance and acceptance of others, but when it comes down to it, they are the most intolerant and use more stereotypes than anyone else...Anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable to look at the politics of a movie and decide if you want to see it based on that. James Cameron is going out of his way to talk about the political message of his movie and he obviously wants us to notice it. Well, a large portion of his potential audience reject the message he's trying to get across. And I think he's greatly hurting his chances at breaking even with this movie because of it. I read that this movie has to make over $700 million JUST TO BREAK EVEN!!! Now, that's certainly plausible to happen worldwide, but I think only a handful of movies in history have made that much, and if this lukewarm word of mouth continues, I think, at least statewide, he's going to have trouble. Because even the folks on here who say they liked the movie, it doesn't seem like many of them will watch it more than once...
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Is this one: http://bit.ly/4xP5bV
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"i like it for the story-" the end. thats all i needed to hear from you thanks.
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This fucking bootleg is killing me!
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LOL!
Who are you and how did you get BSB's username???
Identify yourself!!! -
from PANDORA and holy shit. Haters can suck a nut on this one - beautiful to behold, thrilling to experience and surprisingly heartfelt. The story doesn't win any points for originality but it is well told. I was completely transported and entirely blown away. I'm actually glad I jumped into these talkbacks because the vitriol and acrimony had me severely lower my expectations, and maybe that's why I loved it so much - but love it I did. When the credits rolled I was disappointed there wasn't more. I will see this again in the theatre. Wow.
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movie away next weekend.
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HE IS GAY, AVATAR IS HETEROSEXUAL NO CONTEST
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Thank you for that review you posted over at ruthlessreviews. Good to see somebody being honest with this crappy movie with great visuals.
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...about the political spectrum? Americans are ridiculous when it comes to this. Not everything should be reducible to liberal and conservative story strands/themes, can’t you just appreciate a movie that relates to the destruction of the natural world?
Why is that an inherently liberal storyline? Why is a story of human colonisation and oppression of others necessarily anti-American or anti-right wing? Red Dawn is about military oppression and that’s essentially NRA gun-totting, right-wing paranoid political propaganda!
Seriously, just have another revolution and get rid of the losing political perspective. So tired of hearing left-wing vs. right-wing arguments.
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Actually he's got all 57 of'em, every size, shape and color. Yessir it's a fair exchange--he gives'em aids and they in turn give him anthrax. Almada's very own Trekkie member of the local leper colony, bestiality section. Way To Fucking Go there Mammaries! Xiphos sends you his regards. Ditto Jarv.
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make a lot of money. I was just looking at the Top 20 movies of all time and you can find a conservative message in almost all of them:The Dark Knight was an obvious allegory about the War on Terror and Batman had to use the same tactics that the US used to stop terrorism in the US for the last 8 yearsStar Wars and it's sequels is a classic "Good vs. Evil" story about doing the right thing, making the right choices when tempted by "The Dark Side", showed the importance of family, loyalty, devotion to religion, showed love can conquer all, etc, etc, etc.The Shrek movies are about Love Conquering all, despite what one looks like. They also show the danger of a monarchy having too much power.E.T. shows the dangers of what divorce can do to a family and the problems it brings to kids, including loneliness and having to look outside the family for love, it also shows how unfeeling and cold Government Burueacrats can be...The Spiderman movies also show the importance of a solid family and a classic "Good vs. Evil". Liberals today usually want to deny that there is any evil in the world. Well, there is, and sometimes you have to fight it...The Passion of the Christ.Jurassic Park shows that man shouldn't be tinkering with nature. Nature (or God) has chosen Dinosaurs to go extinct. Man has no right to mettle with cloning or anything of that nature...Finding Nemo is yet another movie that shows the importance of family and how they should be together...The Lord of the Rings Trilogy is about having to stand up and fight back against one-minded religious zealots whose sole purpose is the destruction of our society...The Phantom Menace is about unfair taxation and the evils of a vast Government Bureuacracy...And Forrest Gump, well, enough said. He's the most rigthteous character of the last 25 years and always does what he thinks is right, including protecting his mother and his girlfriend. He hates hippies, he fought for his country, he's a capitalist, he's a patriot, he's a devoted family man, he's a self-made entrepeneur, he's a pro-lifer, and he's a leader among men.I'd say that films with conservative messages CAN be very profitable and it's a HUGE RISK to make a film with a clearly liberal message. Look at all the anti-American, anti-military, anti-War movies that have bombed in the last 2 or 3 years?
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This happens when you wrap your tendrils around any beast, tree or sexual deviant within a 10 foot radius.
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Avatar will have a 3 month run in IMAX till Alice in Wonderland starts in March. There will plenty of time for repeat business by then. Even if it didn't make a profit its value for paving the way for future movies is priceless.
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than anything liberal. Modern-day liberals are ultra-authoritarians just like their social conservative counterparts.
And they've both done a fantastic job of bankrupting this country. Thanks.
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I don’t really care if people enjoy this film though. What irks me is that so many other filmmakers get trashed for making similar types of films and yet this movie, which really is a bloated, pretentious and incredibly clichéd endeavor, gets hailed by many of these same hypocrites as visionary and spectacular when in reality the story is hackneyed and paper-thin. This isn’t merely a weak narrative; we’re talking about some of the most painfully overused conventions being recycled with as little variation and originality as possible, almost to the point where certain segments approached satirical levels of contrivances. There wasn’t a single beat, plot thread or complication that wasn’t telegraphed a mile away and there wasn’t a single aspect of this film that couldn’t have been written by a fifteen year old dabbling in sci fi conventions. I love Cameron but I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why this vapid, insipid script was ever shot and why so many resources were pissed away in telling a story that was already overdone and stale ten years ago. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a rigid adherence to a template as what Avatar presents to the viewer; I was literally laughing at many of the “emotional” scenes like his Braveheart speech. And that scene where Michelle Rodriguez’s character enters the fray with her ship painted (God forbid she blends in and surprises the enemy; why worry about tactical advantage when you can paint your ship up to look cool) and wearing war paint in the cockpit might literally be Cameron’s career-spanning low point. Yeah, the effects were brilliant and the 3D amazing but there is nothing else to this film which ironically is what so many of you net-dwelling movie elitists claim you loathe: big budget CGI spectacles with no soul. AVATAR might quite literally be the definitive example of confection cinema: all flash and zero substance. Love the film and extol it if you must be the next time you start slamming Lucas or even Bay bear in mind that thematically and structurally, Avatar is amateur hour, brilliant FX notwithstanding.
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Like, he's had a crush on it and it shot him down. Poor guy.
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I never get when people get angry about a film. It's either for you or not. Don't go see it.
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Dec 19, 2009 3:15:20 PM CST
I'm really upset with what I'm reading. I'm used to watching
by coughlins laws
movies with political messages I don't agree with and I won't avoid a movie because of it, simply because I expect it now. But the reasons alot of these people are giving for not liking it are scaring me. If the movie was 2 hours, maybe 2 and a half, I think I'd be fine. But I hate sitting in a theatre for 3 and a half hours when the movie is horrible. I hope you people are just being hypercritical. Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but did this cause anyone naseua seeing it in 3D? I sometimes have trouble like this and couldn't sit all the way through Cloverfield in the theatre...
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Please - delude yourself into thinking you are making this world a better place by defending economically-bloated egotrips like this viz-porn of a movie.
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Ah yes - the Navi joining John Coffey in "the Green Mile", Will Smith in "Bagger Vance" and every injun in every movie of the last 30 years in teaching the jaded white man the error of his materialistic ways and join them in a dumber ... err ... simpler life.
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I'll leave the groveling and scraping to the made-up-man-in-the-sky to those PRAISIN JESUS in Ebenezer Baptist ever-ey Sunnay Mornin, tanks be to GAWWWWD.
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What was the talk on this site 10 years ago with Phantom Menace? This certainly has us Geeks talking. The 1st hour I was blown away, then I just got used to what I was seeing. Very good, Very Entertainig but I don't have to see it again immediatley. I will say this though, give Jimmy Cameron the keys to anything he want's.
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Pick up a copy of Richard Morgan's "Altered Carbon", and you'll get a feel for how awful our techno-future could be. Sin has not yet be repealed, or eliminated.
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thank you for your wonderful review,and thank you for loving this masterpiece.
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Its called "human interest" aka filler. Because, of course, why would they possibly run stories on, oh, I dunno, the war with the highest body count of the last decade. (watch all the morons think its Iraq. It aint.)
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I had a pretty limited, albeit self-imposed window for seeing this movie in theatres. honestly, I really wasn't that hyped about it, but I planned on doing some christmas shopping Friday afternoon and then hitting the realD 3d showing that night. unfortunately, we're getting smacked by the winter storm hitting the eastern shore, so i was holed up in the house last night. i work tonight, the eagles play tomorrow, and then after that point i'll probably just forget about it. *shrug* bring on "Daybreakers."
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It get more people in the theater. that's why I mentioned that they large news outlets were talking about it.
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My take: http://tinyurl.com/yhl9jye
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Im so glad you said you liked the story. When I hear people whining about the story, I feel that they simply want to stand out in a crowd.
Avatar does not have a weak story in any way shape or form. And to say the story has been done is simply not true. Because if it is, please direct me to where I can see it told in another way. I would enjoy seeing another interpretation of “Disabled war hero goes to another planet where his mind is put into a genetically created alien body to assimilate into the alien society and convince the aliens to move their location so that an Earth based corporation can mine the area. After failing to convince them to move, our hero joins their cause and helps them triumph over the evil corporations attempts to destroy them”.
Please tell me what DVD’s to rent so that I can see this……….
Avatar is no more a retelling of the same story than about 98% of every movie, book, story, comic, and story ever told. I mean, ok, so it’s about the weaker good triumphing over the stronger evil. So what? That does not mean it’s the same story.
If you want to describe it as “An earthling, considered potentially weak by some, travels to another world of strange beings, where earthling rises to the task of joining the local people and leading them on the almost impossible task of destroying a great evil”. There, that’s Avatar. No wait……..Isnt that the Wizard of Oz? James Cameron has copied the Wizard of Oz!!! Don’t go see the movie!!
Come on now, how blind must one be to not see Avatar as groundbreaking? To whine about the story being weak or retold is ridiculous. I mean, are you really going to blame Cameron for not making the story “Evil triumphs over good”? Who wants to see that? It happens every day to us. That’s not why we go to the movies. And even if he did, its already been done.
Avatar is the closest thing to the holodeck in Star Trek that we have come to in our history of entertainment.
The 3D computer world he has created is the best that has ever been done. The 3D effects are the best that have ever been done. Many of the ideas in the movie are there for the first time ever. He has created biology that has never existed. Even the hard SciFi in the movie works. The biology, the planetary science, all of it. It is a perfect combination of Sci/Fi and Fantasy.
Are you people going to try to tell me that you wont see this movie? That you didn’t like it? That you don’t want to go again?
I don’t believe any one who says that.
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I think this film will do very well. I haven't heard much from the guys, but the girls are eating it up. Via word of mouth through facebook statuses, they're convincing more of their friends to go see it.I kid you not, ninety percent of Avatar-related comments are coming from the girls. Not that that's bad, or anything. The Titanic formula seems to be working again here for Avatar. It would be interesting to hear from other facebookers, too. Are the girls on your facebook network chewing it up? Based on the statuses I've read so far; there will be more girls going to see this (and if they have boyfriends, they're going, too), one of the girls who have seen it already wants to go again. Weird. New updates from the girls are also popping up favoring Avatar as I write this.
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It was real good. I do think it's overhyped though. The special effects are amazing, but they look so real. That after a while seeing them becomes second nature and it kind of loses it's ability to impress you anymore. I guess that's a good thing? Although, The final battle turns it up a notch and kicks your ass. The story and characters were ok. The Navi themselves are freaky looking, watching them walk around and talk for long periods of time, well it's hard to describe. It takes the eyes a little bit to adjust to what you're seeing. The 3D was real nice, but it wasn't any more special than any other recent 3D movie you've seen. The only part that really moved me, was the ending with the "I see you" message. It came full circle and hit home. So yeah, it's a real good movie, but I don't see it changing how movies are made or 3D becoming the norm.
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This bothers me with all the 3D movies. Sometimes the action is so fast, that the 3D can't keep up with the frames and it's hard to tell what's going on. For example the Thanator chase scene.
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HE DIDN'T ENJOY IT COS OBVIOUSLY WOMEN ARE BETTER THAN HAIRY VIRGIN GAY REVIEWERS, BUT YOU GET THE POINT DEVIN FARACI YOU'RE FUCKED ASSHOLE !
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ALL THE EDITING IS VERY CLEAR SO FUCK YOUR ASS
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It's not blowing me away. It's not bad but it's kinda slow so far.
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I mean, this blatantly rips off Dances With Wolves, then Braveheart, and then it tries to force-feed us some over-simplified political rant. The military is almost all evil, Corporations are bad, and people hiding in mountains fighting guerrilla warfare are the good guys. hmmm. Oh yeah, there's even a mention of a 'Shock and Awe' campaign--Liberals boogy-man word of the century.
I mean, at least Cameron could have tried to hide his story influences, at least a little.
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I am curious, is this supposed to be a review or a blog about the movie. Now I don't want to get on a spoiler rant here but for some reason, every time there is a big movie that comes out, spoiler tag or not, you start to dive into details that aren't needed for a legit review. It's like, why go see the movie if i can just read your review. The point I am trying to make here is just tell us what you thought of the movie, good, bad, shit, worse, whatever. You don't have to start telling the story of the movie to get your point across, I am just not sure why you do it.
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I would punch you if sat near me and used your phone during the movie.
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I would punch you if sat near me and used your phone during the movie.
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I am not that kind of an asshole.
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Get off your phone, dude. This talkback will be waiting for you when it's done.
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Dec 19, 2009 4:36:46 PM CST
You better not be watching a download on your computer....
by chakraborty
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So, um, when Trudy Chacon uses a pistol to liberate her pals in order to assist the Na'vi...does that make this movie "pro-gun"? Maybe the NRA could therefore endorse it? I mean, in general, the Na'vi seem to pretty dedicated to their right to bear arms...wouldn't you say that's a good thing?
Joking of course...your list is hilarious, especially given that it includes movies by notoriously liberal directors and starring outspoken liberal actors... -
Let's chat in an hour or so.
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http://tinyurl.com/yak4ply
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You have been misinformed. Not all Conservatives are Christians (although most Christians are Conservatives). Besides, I think that the point is that Hollywood attempts to stereotype corporations as being given to excessive GREED. If there were any industries that seemed to be full of greed, it would be HOLLYWOOD and TRIAL LAWYERS -- the main funding base of the Democratic Party. That said: I look forward to this film! It isn't because I agree with James Cameron's simplistic and subtle notions of liberal socioeconomic ideology. Those things are present in most of his films (The Abyss, Aliens, and even Titanic). Rather, I just like his films. I look forward to seeing it on Monday.
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Dec 19, 2009 4:55:26 PM CST
So Harry can't walk because of Christian conservatives and corpo
by p0llk4t
...at least that's what I got out of that mess of a review.
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This film is not a 5 star film. It's getting top ratings because 1. It's in 3D 2. It's really expensive and 3. James Cameron made it.
The trouble is the 3D tech is flawed. Things too close to the camera blur, as do fast moving objects. The story is too long and too simple, too cliche. The FX are good but nothing I hadn't seen before.
A few years back a lot of critics gave King Kong 5 star, just because it was a famous director that they liked making a big film. They were wrong. The same is happening here. -
"I would enjoy seeing another interpretation of “Disabled war hero goes to another planet where his mind is put into a genetically created alien body to assimilate into the alien society and convince the aliens to move their location so that an Earth based corporation can mine the area."
See Dances with Wolves, a better example of the troubled-soldier-goes-native story archetype (Avatar does have a wonderful fantasy ecology but DwW was none too shabby in portraying the buffalo herds).
If you want to argue that I'm critiquing a feel-good hero story far too seriously, that's fair - with a $300M budget on the line, I only expect a well-made version of a known story type. But I think that just like there's an uncanny valley for CGI human faces, there's a similar uncanny valley that applies to plots: if you're sketching out a high-mind historical parallel, but come off too simplistic, its just as creepy. -
Unlike the King Kong Remake Boring Shitfest, Avatar Fucking rules. I love Avatar and was bored to shit during KK. That was long and boring. Avatar Flew By. When Jake awoke at the end, and the movie ended, I was so fucking bummed. I didn't want to leave Pandora yet. I also have a pretty wife who is cool as hell, my soul mate... but I fell in love with Neytiri. This movie is so fucking good. You don't think so, I am sorry for you. And you suck.
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It's the most accurate review of this film I've read.
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What exactly was it that ruled?
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worst films of the year.
WELL DONE HATERS,YOUR DETERMINATION IS RESPECTABLE.GFYSN. -
here it is mate:
Finally the long-awaited day for the Avatar premiere came,and losing no time i grabbed my ticket for the first screening today.
First of all I would like to state that i am a long-time huge fan of Cameron's work,i love all his films and i was sure from the start that Avatar was not going to let me down in any way. But dont misunderstand me,I might be a fanboy of specific franchises,genres,works or artists,but i have never let that cloud my judgment over the movies i watch. I am a cinephil,i love movies,and when i spend my time on a movie,i want the movie to worthy of it,i dont want to disappoint me,otherwise i will trash it regardless of who made it.
So enough with the clarification,lets get to the review.
Lets start from the most obvious question. Is it the visual awesomeness that Cameron promised us? you already know the answer for that which is a huge affirmative.
Cameron has delivered 100% what he promised in the technical part of the movie. He was not lying when he was talking about jaw-breaking visuals,CGI quality never seen before.
The CGI is simply the best i have ever seen in a movie (or videogame) until now. Simply the best,period. It sets the bar for the sfx a lot higher,and it will become the reference point of measurement for the upcoming spectacle movies of the next decade (yes decade).
It was obvious from the start,that the real protagonist of the movie is Pandora itself. And the CGI does the best job to give bones and flesh to the vivid imagination of Cameron's cgi artists,who must be applauded for their magnificent work,in order to create a visceral,living and complex ecosystem of grand proportions,both fascinating and threatening. Dense,lustful vegetation,rich wildlife,living creatures climbing,eating,drinking,playing with their youngs,enormous detail in everything,from the small leafs flying here and there,tree branches moving because of the wind,water drops falling from flowers and insects crawling on tree trunks. But that is just Pandora at the day. At night the same environment changes,becomes something entirely different. Its then when the bio-luminescence kicks in and the unlimited imagination of the cgi artists is fully unleashed: vivid colors,dreamlike scenery sequences (my favorite is when they are walking on the tree trunk,and in the background you watch Pandora's enormous and luminous primary planet),wonderful play of lighting and shadow,again huge detail in everything,like when Jake walks,and the dark green grass under his every footstep,glows.
But imho where CGI stands as the best work of photo-realism in a movie,is during the scenes in the floating mountains and especially when Jake and Neutiri fly together with their Banshees. I just cant describe it with words,i really could not tell if the scenery was real or not.And then we have the Navi,the unfortunate target of a much dismay from Cameron's doubters. Well once again they were wrong. Just like with Pandora's environment,the CGI artists have also made a terrific work with the creation of the Navi. Although when you see them for the first time,interacting with the humans,they bring an impression of fake,after a while you and specifically when Jake enters the forest ,its then that you compl forget about being fake,weird or cartoony. Their detailed texture,their muscular movement,their facial expression,their big,very detailed,living eyes (the most difficult thing to cgi draw),the way they walk,they interact,all these things are wonderfully orchestrated together in order to create the most living,breathing cgi characters you have witnessed in a film.
And these Navi are not just a replica of each other,with small difference just to give the impression of variety. No,the artists werent lazy,they tried to make every Navi as an individual with its own physical distinguishness .From all the Navi, Neutiri is the most detailed and expressive (and sexy too) Navi,with Jake coming as second.
And finally we have the 3D aspect of the film. Many doubters accused Cameron of using the 3D as a gimmick,a bait for the spectacle lovers. But yet again they were wrong. I have to admit that when i watched the movie's screen preview on August,although i was thrilled by the CGI photo-realistic visuals,i was very disappointed with the 3D view of the film. Well i watched the movie in a different theater with a bigger screen (unfortunately not IMAX :( ) and better 3D equipment,and i have to say that the experience is completely different and that the 3D is truly an integrated part of the movie.
I have to remind you that Cameron said in an old interview of his,that he was not going to use the 3D excessively but only when he thought it was necessary for the narration of the story,with the classic 2D filming used in other parts of the film which didnt require 3D.And he did just that. For instance the indoor sequences although they have some 3d perspective (like when Quaritch debriefs the marines),you might say that it only works as a gimiick,it really is not needed. But its when Jake gets to his Avatar body and gets outdoors,it is then that 3D shows his teeth.
First of all when Jake wakes up in his Avatar body,through his eyes we immediately get the POV perception of a 3meter tall bipedal creature,height,depth,his relative size with the humans,everything registers quickly in our brain with the help of 3D.The immersion is strong and gets stronger when Jake get out to the open environment of Pandora. The camera angles and the rotation of the camera are used in such a way that the 3d perspective gives the impression to the movie viewer that he is Jake's place,in the center of the environment,and from his perspective he witnesses the beauty and the richness of his surroundings. For me the most obvious scene of that,was during the night,when Jake started to observe the bio-luminescence of the forest.,and the camera started rotating around his body. I really felt that i was in his place.
But i believe that the use of 3D apart from creating a more immersive, experience of the realistic and living Pandorian natural environment, it also helps in another level: i have already said that the Pandora ecosystem reeks of life,there is a lot of detail and a lot of motion. Imho the same scenes of Pandora in 2D would have become crowded,noisy with all that plethora of information. But 3D separates the scenes into three levels: in the foreground we have small elements like the flying bugs or leafs,or the flowers at the edges of the screen which enhance the perspective of depth,there is the middle level where the main scenery exists and then there is the background where we watch the rest of the detail of it. I think that helps to separate the information,and help the audience to grasp and marvel better the beauty of Pandora,since they can assimilate the rich images quicker.
So was the 3D CGI perfect? Ofc not,for example I though that some animals like the wild dogs,the rhinos and especially Thanator didnt have a very detailed texture,it looked a bit plastic. On the other hand the Banshees and the Horses were beautifully drawn and animated.
The chase scene with Thanator was very thrilling and immersive (I really bent my head during the chase to avoid a leaf thrown at me,when Thanator reaped a tree),but the camera was very close to the creature,the action was rapid,and I was getting a blurry view of what happening,the chase scene looked like out of focus. But that maybe it was because I wear glasses,i asked my friend if he had the same problem which he denied.
But at the end you dont care for such minor flaws,not when you get to witness the most breath-taking,beautiful and strongest scene in the entire film. Its when Jake and Neutiri fly together with their banshees around the flying mountains. I can not describe that scene,you have to see it with your own eyes,to experience it yourself. I understand why Cameron considers it his most favorite one. (and btw Raimi and Blizzard take notice on that specific scene)
Thats all for the technical part of the movie. Now its time for the important part,the story of the movie.
I have to agree that the story is not original,yes its like Pocahontas/Dancing with Wolves,yes the characters are your expected archetypes (but not stereotypes) from such a story,yes it has the cliche messages about how bad capitalism/imperialism is,the safe-guarding of our planet,the respect of the different cultures etc,yes the dialogue is a bit hockey at some times,yes the film is not as much scifi/action driven as some hardcore fans of Cameron would want to be
Frankly all these things are a small part of the whole package,the greatness of the movie manages to outshine all its minor flaws. and I also believe that all the stories have already been told during the humankind's history,and that nowadays we repeat the same old stories,again and again,doing it with unlimited different ways. And how well you tell a story is more important than the story itself. And Cameron is a master storyteller and with this movie,he proves that he still is.
As it is Cameron's trademark,the movie starts immediately,no intro credits,not even the title. With the use of Jake's personal diary and flashbacks we immediately get the necessary information about the who,the what,the why,etc.The people who were nagging all the time about the 'obvious' plot holes and inconsistencies of the movie,like the wheelchair,the treatment of his legs,etc,should relax and understand that Cameron has make a tremendous effort to create a believable world,with everything making sense and establishing strongly the Verisimilitude of the movie (you hear that director of the much overrated Distric 9?)
The story is divided,lets say,in two parallel routes or parts. There is the story from the human side,and then there is the story the Navi side,and in the middle there is the protagonist of the movie,Jake Sully.Apart from the main story,we get smaller stories for the secondary characters which give depth to their personalities and explain the motives of their actions. For example there is a scene where through some photographs and a bit monologue from Sully we discover a more sensitive side of the Weaver's strict character,we learn her relationship with the Navi and what happened before the events of the movie. And all that from a small scene. But that scene is not only for character disclosure,but it plays its own role in the development of the story. Its all these small details,some photographs,the scars in Quaritch's head,etc,all these small things during the movie,which Cameron uses all together masterfully in his storytelling, in order to develop his characters and progress his story.
I do have some personal grips with the story. Unfortunately the characters of Ribisi and Rodriguez are in the background of the events,most of the time in the film.I really wanted more exposition from them,especially Ribisi's character.
The other problem I had,is that Cameron at some points of the film,he transcends from one scene to another in a bit of sudden way. Two examples: Sigourney when learns that Jake has replaced his dead brother in her project,she goes to Ribisi,who is the boss of the whole operation,to complain,and while you would expect,as usually happens in most of the movies,a long and loud confrontation between them,what happens is Ribisi immediately goes to his office,shows his flying rock on his desk,explains the reason why they are on Pandora and the sequence stops exactly there with Weaver looking at him with an annoyed face.
Another similar example is when Jake is introduce to Neutiri's tribe. At first they dont want him there,but when Neutiri tells to her parents,who are the leaders of their tribe,that she witnessed an omen about Jack,they immediately decide to give him a chance and command Neutiri to teach him their ways. You would expect that the leader and at least some of the elder clan members would want to talk first about the subject,before taking any kind of decision,but that didnt happen,the decision was made very quickly.
I believe Cameron considered these scenes as time consuming,and for time saving reasons he gave them little gravitas in order to get fast in the important parts of the story and to have enough time to show to the audience the spectacle of Pandora .Besides he doesnt overdone with it,he only does these quick jumps in the story 2 or 3 times,they dont become irritating.
But what is Cameron's true achievement in the movie,is that he managed to create real characters out of CGI constructions. His Navi dont only look and feel alive,but they ARE individual characters with their own distinctive personalities,they are characters that you care for,that you might relate to and that you want to learn what it will happen to them during the movie.
How Cameron achieves that? He uses masterfully the facial and body movements of Navi during their interaction,he focuses on small details which might be simple,but are very common to us humans. For instance there is a scene where Neutiri watches Jake-Navi and her eyes give a hint of a hidden attraction for Jake. Later when she and Jake talk together,you can understand from the way they smile and look to each other,that now exists a mutual attraction. But at the some time,we get a shot of the rival,who watches this,and his facial expression betrays his anger about the developing situation. There is the scene before Neutiri and Jake make love,where they walk,and Jake being a bad boy grabs her tail to annoy her,and Neutiry runs smiling. And that specific scene for me at least,gives the best example of why Cameron waited so many years for the technology to mature. The movement and the interaction of the characters in that scene is so fluent,so natural,their smiling,how the look,they laugh,that a lesser photo-realistic CGI and motion capture technique would have negate the emotion and the realism of the human behavior,which those two cgi characters bring in that specific scene.
Its all these delicate details,small movements in the face,the eyes,the smile,its through all these that the emotional status of the Navi is expressed and makes them so human,so real,so alive.
I would like to make a comment here though. I was a bit disappointed with the love scene between Jake and Neutiri. It was very short and cut abruptly even before it started. No dont laugh,i am not a pervert,but Cameron did one of the most erotic love scenes in cinema,in his Titanic movie,and i was very interested to see how would approach the first love scene between two CGI characters in his new movie. and since Jake makes love with an alien female,using an alien body,it would be interesting to see his reaction from a scifi point of view.I dont know,but maybe Cameron did film a bigger version of the scene,but then he decided that the audience was not ready to watch that kind of interaction between two CGI characters (yes i know the Japanese dont have such problems) and probably would laugh,ignoring the true purpose of the scene. So he decided to cut it in a shorted version,and his decision is not wrong. Regardless, it doesnt matter,because imho,Cameron immediately after the love scene,gives us but the most scifi and character exposed,scene in the entire film.The scene is short with a brief monologue,but i dont know,it really did it for me as a scifi geek.
About the actors. Well as you expect from such a talented assembly,they all did solid performances. As it was obvious from the start,Weaver incarnates again her iconic character,Ripley,She is a geek scientist,but like Ripley she is tough,non compromising,persistent and with a strong maternal instict. Moreover her Navi version is the most identical (and sexier!) to her human physical appearance,and its really like watching Weaver in blue makeup acting. Impressive.
Ribisi is,you guessed,Burke from Aliens. He does a great job with it,despite his limited time in the movie. Rodriguez once again proves why she usually gets roles of tough but hot women.
Sam does a good job as the melancholic but proud marine,and he really transfers to the audience,his emotional status while being torn between his human comrades and his Navi friends.
And dont forget that the Navi are motion captured actors,thus their movements and expressions are based on the real actors. Jake and Neutiri (especially her) do a wonderful job as the Navi,they really help the whole procedure to bring humanity in their cgi counterparts.
But the real star of the movie,is Strephen Lang.
Lang, a very talented but underrated actor,literally steals every scene he is in,he simply outshines everyone else. He is the epitome of bad-ass,hard as nail,military leader who is determined to do the job regardless the cost.
What Lang manages to pull out,is that although he is an cold blood,bad ass motherfucker,he is so cool,crafty and determined to to do his job,that not only you like him but you even cheer for him to win. Besides,Lang's Quaritch is not a bad guy,as many wrongly assume. Like Judge Dredd or Inspector Javert,he is a man of qualities and strong personality,but because of fate, he ended up serving the wrong system. And Lang,through his masterful acting,manages to bring that kind of villain in the big screen.
I wont bother to talk about the action,Cameron is and remains a master of the art of action,his action set pieces are big,massive,they reek of adrenaline,excitement and coolness,while remaining comprehensible,you can follow the action because he doesnt use at all the shaky camera stylization (you hear that Bay and co?),and he uses slow-mo rarely and only when its necessary to watch the character's specific reaction during a action sequence. In the last part of the movie,all hell breaks out,i wont say anything else than its one of the most epic fantasy/scifi battles you have ever witnessed in the big screen (you hear that Lucas?).As someone correctly said ,its the mother of all battles.
To sum up what Cameron manages,is to tell a story with engaging storytelling in a awe-inspiring fantasy world. His story remains interesting during the whole time of movie,the pacing and the buildup is well crafted,the story never becomes bloated or shallow,never too slow or too fast to follow. He develops interesting ,both navi and humans,characters,which you care for and you want to know what will happen to them during the movie. And finally he gives diachronic social,ecological and universal (but no political) messages without becoming preachy.
And all the above are happening in a mythical,wondrous world,which he fully explores bringing in the big screen breath-taking images of amazing imagination.
So the final question is: Is Cameron's Avatar a game-changer which revolutionizes the cinema?
Lets clarify something first. the art of cinema has not changed much for the last forty years. Despite the birth of new genres or film-making techniques or cinematography styles,the quintessential artistic rules of creating a movie (how you set your frame,montage,etc,) remain the same,and frankly i dont think that they will ever change,just like the basic rules in music,literature,painting,etc have not changed.
Cameron has never claimed in his interviews that his goal with Avatar is to rewrite the book of film-making. What he wants to achieve with Avatar is to bring the people back to the cinema,to understand that they will never receive the full experience of the movie,if they watch it in a downloaded,pirate copy on their pc monitors. And I believe he succeed on that.
He proved that the 3D CGI is more than a technology used only as a gimmick for the movies,an extra eye-candy bonus for the audience. It is a tool which can be used effectively to create a visceral,life-like world,where imaginary but real-like characters inhabit it,and in a very immersive way you experience their stories. He also proved that such an experience is impossible to be achieved in its full degree,nowhere else than in a well-equipped cinema. The medium (cinema here) regains its role of defining the final shape of the artist's work and its importance in delivering and enhancing the full experience of the artwork to the audience.
An artist is restrained by its tools. And every tool which liberates the artistic skills and the full vision of an artist,is a welcomed gift. Its a fact that legendary film-maker acknowledge (Kubrick comes to my mind) and if film-makers like Lucas,Spielberg,etc understand Cameron's true meaning of its achievement,realize the full potential of the 3D CGI technology and start using seriously it as a tool for enhanced storytelling and immersive experience for their audience,and not just for visuals,then this will lead to a new era of cinematic spectacle with content,and yes its then that Avatar can be considered as a game-changer.
Final words.
Avatar is a visionary masterpiece.period. It has flaws but they are trivial .What really matters is that,apart from its epic spectacle,it has BALANCE and SOUL. It does deserve oscar nominations,apart from the obvious technical ones,for best film and best director. it wont get them,and maybe it doesnt deserve to. Lang must get an oscar nomination for supporting male actor. It revolutionizes the sfxs to their next level and show new boundaries for the film-makers to reach. It also proves that Cameron has the balls,in an era of endless remakes,comic adaptations,sequels,prequels and reboots,to make a huge film with original story and cgi characters as his protagonists.
Avatar is targeted at everyone,the kids,the adults,the elders,it has something to offer to each and everyone of the them
So leave your prejudice for the cartoony NavI and your nitpicking outside,open your mind,get your friends,your family,your partners and go watch it,preferably in a 3D IMAX theater or wherever you can.
Go,watch it,enjoy it.
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"It does deserve oscar nominations,apart from the obvious technical ones,for best film and best director. it wont get them,and maybe it doesnt deserve to.".... No offence dude, but that doesn't make any sense.
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There was nothing in this movie that moved me. It's not a bad movie, it just doesn't connect with me on any emotional level. If I was a young kid, I'm sure this would have been one of those eye-opening film experiences. But having seen thousands of films at this point in my life, I felt too much of the writer's presence here in AVATAR. While the visuals were believable and engrossing, the story and characters were ironically the most artificial parts of the movie. So, it succeeds in many areas and fails to connect in some basic ones as well. I'm glad I watched AVATAR but like other Cameron movies for me, I doubt I'll be returning for seconds, etc.
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for best picture,director,etc but that doesnt mean that it necessarily deserves to win them.I say this because with the exception of Hurt Locker,i havent yet seen the other films,to make a comparison as to which is 'artistically' better.capis?
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but we got smacked around for being weak....so eff all wingnut fucks
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At the end all that matters is the personal experiene of each and every one cinephil.But you are wrong,the characters had sould and the movie had some very strong emotional scenes.
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And I left indifferent.
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There's a difference, my friend. Like you say, we're only coming at this from personal experience. The characters connected with you and they did not with me. I think the best acting was Neytiri, ironically. And she was the best written character in the whole movie. I would have much rather had a movie based entirely on her perspective, a la Malick's THE NEW WORLD. She was the emotional core of the movie. And it would have been interesting to examine her attitudes towards Jake in depth. The story could have remained the same, but instead given her character arc priority. Oh well.
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... that's all. Forget the underlying theme or the implied sociopolitical undercurrent. We all know the truth about the world and humanity anyway and no fantasy film is going to change anything. But this movie is rich with artistry and heart, presented in a seamless package that is impossible to deny. So just see it for what it is and enjoy it.
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It's really good at coming up with music I never would have found out about, but it's all based on artists I already like. Great way to discover music. Can't wait to see how that translates to the big screen, and to 3D no less.
So is RealD the same tech as IMAX 3D? -
because i find it impossible to something that it offers nothing.Do you cry for something that is empty?
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...and I'm not entirely sure I didn't.
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I'm not being a dick, I'm seriously trying to unpack your last post. It doesn't make sense- please explain.
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Fucking loved it. Haven't been this viscerally thrilled by a genre movie for years. It was literally like being a 13-year-old in the theater again, where the sheer spectacle of cinema power was enough to bowl you over.
Sure, the story was a classic one, one we've seen and read a hundred times before. So what? You want to know why it's been told a hundred times before? Because it's A GREAT FUCKING STORY.
And "clunky" dialogue? It was no clunkier than any of Cameron's earlier efforts and a hell of a lot more engaging than the swill we're normally served today in shit like Transformers 2.
As for the effects--absolutely phenomenal. Literally breathtaking and utterly believable. A special mention must be made of Cameron's total mastery of action cinema. There was at least as much stuff going on in the frame as in Transformers 2 and the prequels, but nothing felt extraneous or hard to follow. Furthermore, you actually do care about what happens to the characters in these scenes.
Cameron is still king. -
The rites of passage stuff with the tribal chorus happily singing along was tiresome. George Lucas is obsessed with ships landing in the prequels and James Cameron loves panning the camera around to show how nice the scenery is in this movie. Lots of screentime devoted to that stuff slowed the movie down to a halt for me a few times.
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Most notable was when all the animals turned against the marines in the end battle.
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Was anyone else reminded of Deathworld by Harry Harrison at all? Although maybe a weak comparison. I thought of it near the end.
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Most notable was when all the animals turned against the marines in the end battle.
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...who felt like rooting for the humans or consider the Na'vi to be the cinematic equivalent of the Taliban, you're all borderline fascists.
By your reasoning, Marlene Dietrich, who left Germany because of her hatred for Hitler, was a traitorous whore for entertaining U.S. troops during WWII. Would you have called a Serb who violently opposed militiamen from his own country murdering defenseless civilians in Bosnia a traitor or a hero?
What? You disagree? Oh, I see. It's only if AMERICANS rebel against corporate or governmental injustice that they're traitors.
What you're basically saying is that universal values and common decency are inferior to nation and race, and that simply being a human and/or an American justifies any type of behavior and criminalizes any dissent. That's classic fascist "blood & earth" horseshit.
Fucktards. -
The talkbacker who said its explanation was weak--was he being serious? Is that the level of nit-picking we're currently at? Jesus H. Christ in a chariot-driven sidecar, what the fuck is wrong with you people?
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And kudos to the design of Pandora and making an original sci-fi movie....even if it did remind me of Ferngully.
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Were they ever referred to as being "humans" from "Earth"?I recall a line at the end about them returning to "their planet" but not that they were from Earth.Or I've lost my way entirely.Great movie, by the way. Avatar is the reason a cinema screen is so big.
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Guys. This is it. This is The One. The One you have all been waiting for for so long. You may not realize it now, but this movie just opened a door to a new era of Fantasy & Science Fiction filmmaking. This movie is the reason why this very website was born. This is the new Star Wars. Mark my words. Not the Dark Knight, not LOTR, not the Matrix. One day, years from now, we will all look upon this period of time and realize that Avatar changed movies forever. Questions of script, music or rhythm are irrelevant. James Cameron has made movies magical again. This is it, and if you can't accept it, I feel for you. Remember, not everyone thought Star Wars was the shit back in the days. Will you be one of them ?
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It's against human accomplishment. It's about subjugating the human mind to nature.
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Because STAR WARS had a campy but memorable script, awesome music AND a great rhythm. AVATAR shares in STAR WARS' tradition of introducing the best visuals of its time, but is that enough? I'm curious what you saw in this movie that I did not.
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what i am trying to say is this:
Its respectable for not liking a movie,because of your personal reasons and taste.
But its a different thing when labeling a movie,because that has not to do so much with subjective reasons.
For example: You say the movie is soulless.But i cried with the movie.But you cant cry for something that is has not soul.you dont cry when you see the garbage bin in your home.But if you claim that the movie is soulless,then how is it possible that i cried with the movie? unless you are wrong with this.The movie does have soul,but you simply didnt feel it,which is FINE.but dont label it as soulless because because that thing objectively is wrong,its not the truth.
I will you ask you something else: While you grow up,your opinion of some movies havent changed with the passing of time? Movie you liked when you first saw them,you dont like them now,while movies you disliked,you love them now.
What happened? the movie miraculously changed and became good from bad when you saw it for the first time? or it was always bood but its your perception that changed,and that the movie was always good? think about it
i am not trying to imply that you are going to love Avatar in the future.what i am trying to say is that art is not only about personal opinions but it has some universal criteria,outside of our perception,which also is measured with.
and one of that is that you cant cry for something that it does not exist,does not have soul.fine you dont like it,you didnt feel anything,its ok,i respect that,but dont tell me that it is labeled,it is categorized as soulless,thats the truth about the movie.because then how the fuck did i cry? unless you imply i am a retard ;)
anyway,i hope you got my point.
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yeah cyberskunk it reminded me of Deathworld too.I wish they someday make a Deathworld movie with Avatar's technology,it would have been phenomenal.
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Reread my posts. I never called it anything of the kind. I said it didn't connect with me emotionally.
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Because if it is, I may give this Avatar cartoon picture you kids are talking about a spin. Sounds like a real hootenany! Whoo-hoo! (slaps knee)
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what a great argument,kudos to the guy who thought it.JESUS H CHRIST.
so according to this logic,Transformers 2 didnt have very good effects,so thats the reason i fucking loathed it.
really gus,how old are you? i mean it,how old are you? -
The fact that two of the most enjoyably articulate and acerbic TBers around so thoroughly enjoyed it does my heart good.
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that it DOES have soul,but it is a personal matter of how you will attach to it.ok then,i respect that,thank you.
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with Avatar on an emotional level, something I didn't expect would happen with a "CGI" movie.Well played, Mr Cameron.
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...but not as a movie.
Hollywood's over reliance on CGI, is the final nail in the coffin of boredom. -
For the record, I'm not arguing that its a bad movie at all. And the politics don't turn me off either- I don't get caught up in that stuff. I just give my emotional reactions to things, and I can say this was an interesting film experience, but not one that stirred my emotions.
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Better than The Last Starfighter? Not even close, Calling Avatar 'Dances with Smurfs' gives it too much praise, more like 'Dancing with Stickfigures' with bad CGI.
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i am glad you enjoyed it.
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of the best reviews about Avatar,he really nailed it:
http://tinyurl.com/4x9bkk -
of Avatar? One with "bad CGI" and one with very, very good CGI?I saw the latter.
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"Can't Hardly Wait 2: Wait Harder"
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WHAT?! I didn't...
So how do he and his wife, um...Oh, nevermind. I'm gonna shut up before I get anymore ignorant. -
He suffered a serious leg injury over a dozen years ago (which incidentally led him to create AICN while laid up) and with his weight issues, needs the aid of a wheelchair to get about. Harry, get well man.
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Dec 19, 2009 6:50:36 PM CST
Why are we supposed to ignore story in favor of visuals?
by starlesswinter7
The "derivative" argument is perfectly valid, in my opinion. The problem is not that the story itself is an oft-told one, but that virtually EVERYTHING about it is derivative. Every story ever told has elements of other stories, but the best ones also have original elements and things they change to make the story unique. Apart from the "inserting your tail to connect" thing, Cameron doesn't even attempt to change the stereotypes of this type of story. He doesn't even try! The warrior princess, the macho jealous tribesmen, the wise older folk, the evil military guy (complete with scars on his face, because all tough guys MUST have scars), the "tree of life" that all nature-people worship, and the wild animal one must tame to prove himself (whether it be a horse, a hippogriff like in Harry Potter, or a dragon-like creature in this film)... It wouldn't really be an issue if a few or even all of these were scattered among original elements, but the entire film consists of these stereotypes. Only Neytiri is able to somewhat break her mold. Storywise, that's all there is to the film. If the effects sucked, I don't think anyone would be praising the film as a masterpiece. People always complain about rom-coms being derivative, and thus they are looked down upon. So what's the difference with Avatar? Rom-coms don't have fancy visual - they're completely about story and character, even if they are stereotyped - yet Avatar does, and that's what people are praising. Not that it's not an incredibly enjoyable ride, but it's no masterpiece of storytelling. Also, can we please stop this "It's nice to see a review that isn't just repeating what others have said?" nonsense? If people feel a certain way about something, are they supposed to lie just so they sound different?
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gotta give credit to JC, that's a cool idea I didn't see coming.
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... James Cameron's personal assistant.
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i forgot to add FUCK YOU. Smug dickhead.
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Uh, shouldn't he be on two feet by now? At least with crutches for the leg injury?
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Beautifully done. Will see it again several times while I still can in 3D. Really hoping that they will eventually release a 3D version on DVD/BlueRay- polarized 3D, not the lame red/blue or red/green 3D.I went with an open mind and had a great time. Haters may now kiss my blue-tailed ass.
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Not the best movie of the year. It's not even in my top 5.
ps: story sucked. But that goes without saying, doesn't it? -
... Cameron's dick in his mouth.
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"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
That your dog is finally getting enough cheese.
And reflect that whatever fortune may be your lot,
It could only be worse in Milwaukee."
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Did I miss it? Did the story explain why humans weren't able to strike a deal for unobtanium when they first set foot on it? Or did Cameron just want to gloss over it because he just wants to paint humanity as evil?
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is on a 13 inch computer monitor with a bootlegged camcorder copy of the film. Absolutely stunning. The way Cameron intended it to be seen. I will certainly buy Avatar on VHS when it comes out! The digital effects are better than Transformers: Beast Wars!
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What ever made you think that Christians value life over everything else? History teaches us that Christians have rarely tolerated their fellow man, they only tolerate those who think in the same narrow mindset. Those who do not succumb to their viewpoint have been subjected to Inquisitions, Crusades, witch burnings, Holocaust, etc. Religion is always much more interested in death and hive mentality than it is life.
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this had been made with scy-fy quality visuals, along the lines of DUNE, would the story have been enough? this is the real question
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The movie's biggest success is how the Na'vi are the best CG characters probably ever. There has been a step forward made with AVATAR in that respect. Zoe Saldana lives onscreen, despite her not being in a single frame. The artistry in connecting an actor to an effect is amazing. And the acting does go beyond simple visuals. But that being said, this movie didn't move me one bit.
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The Film was amazing. Not once did i think anything i saw was a effect. I found the story simple but a very powerful one.
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Who thought this movie was just okay? It looks amazing, but $300 million ought to. It IS Dances with Wolves, but just not as good. There isn't much heart. Its not as convincing as better films - we're supposed to care for the Na'vi, but too much time is spent blowing shit up to really get to know the characters. 3/5
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Meh...didn't surprise me Harry liked it for the story...HACK...
Please step down ok Harry? -
Pretty to look at, but not much happening between the ears.
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Dec 19, 2009 7:59:08 PM CST
the felt like a 12/13 year old again is right on the mark
by miyamoto_musashi
this movie will inspire future film makers no doubt about that
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The 'smurfs'...WORKED! They looked great and were believeable. All the CGI was excellent, every creature 100% real. Good movie. Onlything that sucked was THE SOUNDTRACK! Hammy, heavy fisted stuff that was so friggin cliche it almost took me out of the film, but only almost. I was there in PANDORA for the entire flick. It got a little silly at the end, but overall I give it an solid A.
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While you are at it a list for the decade, doesn't have to be 100, probably best not to given Beaks joke of a list.
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SO much SO Cameron decided not to show us what happens to him in the end!
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is a lot smarter than people give her credit for. I know it's really easy to blame a woman for being beautiful so you don't have to look at her as a human being, so you can feel justified in wanting to fuck her because if she's just an object she won't have an opinion on it, whereas if she's a person you'd have to admit that she'd find you repulsive, because you are.Just saying.
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and that fucking song gets nominated over the panty dropping soul full voice of Keith David's, Friends on the Other Side from Princess and The Frog. Then there really is no justice in the world. Though I will say, I've never enjoyed the exotic whaling bitch, but this is the first time FIRST TIME I've ever found that it made sense. Also the main theme of the movie is just a riff of the "near, fAr, WHEre ever you are" from Titanic. Seriously James Horner you blow donkey nuts. No love for the Moon score??? Ohhh yeah thats right Hollywood will eat that shit up in a million trailers in the next five years.
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That's almost exactly what Megan Fox said about you. Pretty to look at but not much between the legs.
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That the first mini dragon (seriously is anyone going to remember the names of these fucking things) should've popped out during the big battle, or been latched on to the bottom of the big dragon? That would have been cool. The whole bonding flying 30 minute stretch with him was the best thing of the movie. The battle was fokkin cool but not half as exciting as the D9 battle. Also I think I big thing about this is are their really going to be AVATARD'S (what will they call themselves?) for this? Like Browncoats, Trekkes, Star Wars Nerds, Twilighters, ummmm fags who like Smurfs? Like after T2 everyone and their step dad were dressing up like Arnold for Halloween. I can't wait to see people dress up like a Na'vi next halloween....
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Sure there may be subtext in this movie, but if so that shit is lost on me. I don't see movies like this for some subtext. If you spend that much money on the film you should come out and fucking say you have subtext in it. I don't bring my brain to these things.
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Yeah, you missed it. Also, the Na'vi are Blue, in case you missed that too!
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That was over a year ago now... Yet Harry manages to refer to his wheelchair, his weight and 'dreaming of running' in more than one occasion in this review - So clearly the Lap Band surgery was a success then, Harry... Jesus, what an inspiration.
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"devincf
My self confidence is high enough that when someone dislikes a movie I like I'm able to continue with my life without getting wound up."
Well, except for the dozens and dozens of negative and douchey Tweets you've made in the last week, right Devin? Fuckwad. -
To Wheels because he is still in a wheel chair????
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ha ha ha - oh, you meant wailing
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Ignoring him is the best policy. What a cunt.
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The Christian faith is about faith,love, forgiveness and self-sacrifice. You confuse the faith with the actions of those who don't follow it, even as they claim to. There are also countless examples of true Christian faith in action, but you have clearly chosen to ignore that to make your point.
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Seeing it againg tonight. =)
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think you need to reread the bible
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Harry, if you read comments down this far, I'm writing to let you know I agree with you: great story. There's no ignoring the paint-by-the-numbers quality of it, and some of the dialog is corny, but I thoroughly enjoyed the narrative of Avatar. I feel like Jake -- I can't wait to get back to Pandora.
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LMAO! What a crock of shit. The Christian faith's entire history (even MODERN history) is about oppression, regulation and forced conversion at the point of a sword along with constant judgments and frowns of disapproval (at a minimum) on anybody who doesn't "properly" exercise the right amount of faith. Which is completely arbitrary from person to person. How many millionaire preachers you had over your tax exempt status lately?
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Really, I figure that they must have used her as their model.
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in fairness to Christianity, other religions have practiced the same forced conversion, and Islam is now "leading" the charge with bombs
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The 3D version of this movie was a completely immersive experience. Awesome- just wow. Very impressive. The story has been told several times already (Lawrence of Arabia, Dances With Wolves, Dune, etc.) but no like this. I hope there'll be an extended edition - I think the story could really benefit from a "prologue" on earth where Jake gets recruited, I didn't like the fact that the movie started in space. BTW, I'm not sure why people are surprise about the "liberal" plot elements, since T2, Aliens, The Abyss, and Titanic all had "liberal" plot elements.
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Hey douchebag, that's how it was for me. Maybe it was my theater, but it did happen in certain scenes.
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Geez Uberman, get it right.
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kind of with Diaz having "cat" like eyes, but definetely could see Zoe
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Level with the height of most male humans, slurp slurp slurp!
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A substance that causes gruff military characters in films to spout cliched dialogue from old Hollywood war movies. Although never a rare substance, Cameron has apparently struck a motherlode of the stuff in AVATAR once again, maintaining his near-monopoly on the element.
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Dec 19, 2009 9:19:50 PM CST
official Avatar review: Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
by jackknifed_juggernaut
please proceed to your nearest IMAX 3D screen. view. bask in its glory. rinse. repeat.
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Dec 19, 2009 9:22:06 PM CST
Every guy is gonna photoshop Zoe Saldana blue, fap fap fap!
by orionsangels
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Exactly why I hate ALL forms of organized religion.
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...people are all over the map on this film. That, in itself, is a good thing. For while we all love universality, we treasure our tastes even more (thus, a talkback and a divisive masterpiece). I loved Avatar and no argument, good or dismissive, will make me budge from believing this is the supreme shit right here. The flaws are akin to snowflakes in a boiling vulcano to me: quite ephemeral and pointless. Though I, myself, may fall prey to the blinding vulcano, I whole-heartedly accept its overpowering will. And I can become a child again. And this is a work of art. The rest is up to magistrates and judges of an foul and fiendish dishonesty I prefer to ignore. This is the anti-Phantom Menace: enough to completely fill your sorry soles, instead of robbing you from anything you might think you posess. So that you may walk in good shoes for some time. Rejoice!
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though there will be lots of teenage boys and probably some much older boys wanting a 10ft blue girlfriend for Christmas.
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I asked my wife for one, she laughed and thought I was being funny, so no blue girls under my christmas tree this year
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that's great news, would you mind telling those nazi-like evangelists
and other extremist wacko's?...they seem to have missed that. -
manhug.
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Dec 19, 2009 9:30:16 PM CST
and the facial expression work on the Na'vi was beyond ridiculou
by jackknifed_juggernaut
seriously... was i the only one touched by the look on their collective faces as they **SPOILER ALERT** wailed, watching their Hometree go down in flames? there are fucking live actors who are incapable of conveying such a level of anguish/woe on their faces in a convincing manner (read: Keanu "Whoa" Reeves). regardless of whether or not the budget was closer to $350 or $500 mil, it doesn't appear a single buck was wasted either way.
James Cameron. All hail the King. -
Neytiri was hot, make no mistake. You have to ask yourself why though? Are you attracted to tall women? That she was a strong woman? She was at times watching over and mothering Jake? Maybe it's that whole furry thing? Some guys see her as half cat, half woman. It's the tail. It's gotta be the tail.
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manhug (x2).
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There were times for me though, when there was something cg about the movements, like when neytiri pushes jake away. It didn't look natural. Overall though. It wasn't distracting. I saw them as just characters in a movie.
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Get ready, because Fanboys will adopt Neytiri, as their new scifi fantasy, like Leia Slave costume. Comic-con is going to be interesting next year lol! The height part is gonna be a problem though, for cosplayers.
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...he is a brave soul, despite his cowardice.He is sincere, despite his inner dishonesty. He is a true film-lover, despite his tastes (it's not so much what he shits on, it's what he praises...Wathmen, Harry Potter please). He is negatively obstinate on Avatar but perhaps he will see the truth. Anyway, the guy isn't bad at all, is all I'm saying. Despite my sometime severe disagreements with his posts, he can be quite the astute fucker. I could see myself defending him, were I a lawyer. Ineptly but sincerely.
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It was interesting and visual. And the story was decent. I thought Zoe was fantastic, and the miltary general guy was evil.
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Anyone else notice that?
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But Harry, next time, could you not look at me whilst you make love? I know you're making sure the camera's set and you got our attention but it's distracting. Just focus, stay on the job at hand and EXPLODE at the end like the 70's pro you are. "Let's get started"? I know a fake cum shot when I see one mister.
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Funny fucker.
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His little CG Yoda got its ass spanked by WETA.
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I did see ILM and Weta listed in the credits.
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of one of the Na'vi. That sums up the movie
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He directed some CLONE WARS episodes, but otherwise he's crying his eyes out at AVATAR.
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Well is it ?
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Dec 19, 2009 10:09:03 PM CST
I've kinda noticed that the more hate a movie gets in the AICN t
by jimbo08lak
The better that movie will be.
And seriously, the story complaints...It's not original, but originality kinda stopped a long time ago, and the fact that this is not a franchise and Jim Cameron had to come up with it all on is own is pretty impressive.
FUCK HERC! -
He should have waited 10 MORE years to do the prequels.
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Then let his estate give the prequels to a real filmmaker.
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Because that was quirky and funny and girls like quirky and funny men. Cameron wasted hundreds of millions going for technical fidelity etc when he should have hired more sit-com writers. You see, girls like funny and quirky. All those machines and science is just hard to understand and not cute at all.
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Godzilla (Gojira) was Shakespeare compared to this shit!
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Dec 19, 2009 10:24:42 PM CST
while Neytiri may become the new scifi fantasy, the reveal of
by jackknifed_juggernaut
Weaver's, erm, Hum'vi (wtf, Harry?) in her little Stanford wife beater wasn't too shabby, either.
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Where the hero didn't shoot his gun every ten seconds.
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Or CHILDREN OF MEN? Sci-fi is still out there. Have faith, good sir.
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Ignoring the awfulness of the movie itself because of the effects makes no sense to me.
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You piece of shit imbecelic whore, 75 million opening weekend, for a film that was proclaimed to be a game changer, and cost in excess of 300 million not including marketing, is a fucking ABYSMAL failure. A dissappointing feast of Hollywood excess.
You smarmy cocksucker, you consistently berated the new Trek as drivel and substandard entertainment, yet you proclaim this overhyped misguided allegorical 5 year olds tale as high entertainment? You mother fucker you went on and on about Treks script being banal, and you defend this pedestriant by the numbers written for the 8th grade level script of Avatar??
Fuck you, you obtuse piece of flotsam. You go fucking bag my groceries you tainted cunt.
Avatar is a fucking dissapointing GLOSSY shiny BOMB. A perfume covered pig. A gold plated turd. You suck my dick Kwits with your shit taste in films. -
we'd be thinking Avatar wasn't very good.
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Dude, slow your roll.
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The characters resonated with me in STAR TREK- not that it's a fair comparison- TREK had 40-plus years of a head-start on AVATAR. And TREK's story wasn't anything special either, but the charm of that movie far outpaces the visual spectacle of AVATAR for me.
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more planets, which I like.
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It's feeling left out, and contemplating some sort of ritualized end of self awareness!
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otherwise they come back
next time it'll be an orbital attack from a fully military expedition -
i planned on seeing it friday night, but this eastern shore winter storm had me holed up in my frigid house. i was scheduled to work tonight(saturday), but my shift was nixed because the store is closed due to weather. unfortunately, so is the movie theatre. being the type who rigidly plans their movie-going ventures, i fear i'm not going to get around to seeing Avatar in theatres. and this is one of those movies that i really, really don't want to see on a computer screen or even my 42" TV. god dammit i want to see this in realD 3D, or not at all!
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Why didn't humans just pull off an orbital attack in the first place? Oh, that's right, because the movie would be only 10 seconds long.
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and saw it. It wasn't even sold out. I'd say maybe 200 or so were there, but everyone was into it.
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Yeah yeah exactly, was Avatar pretty? Of course, but any cunt like assface lives and Kwits dick face that claims this movie is better written than Star Trek is a God damned liar. If big mouth fucks like these two idiots wouldn't demonstrate extreme cognitive dissonance and banal hypocrisy, no one would look on them as the ill-concieved fucks that they are. The only GAME Avatar has changed is how much studios are going to invest in a film, God damn overhyped bomb. Expect more 10,000 jobs like paranormal activity after this three hour video game cut scene piece of shit film.
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I'm talking about after the events in the movie.
Only a catastrophic mission failure might deter humies from getting what they want.
And that'd probably only buy you a decade or so -
In The Dark Knight, Lucius Fox was disgusted by Bruce Wayne's actions. And furthermore, Batman's "enchanced interrogation" of the Joker proved that torture does jack-all diddley squat.
Star Wars? "A very powerful and technological superpower trying to take over a country of peasants was big on my mind"
-George Lucas describing the impact Vietnam had on "Star Wars", Premiere, April 8, 2005
Shrek movies - love in all forms? Yes, and that includes gay unions, and I mean marriages. It ain't the libs with the contitutional amendments to ban gay marriage.
ET - A lot of conservatives are divorced. And the Peter Coyote "evil bureaucrat" character is ultimately sympathetic.
The Spiderman films have villains who are not resolutely evil, but misunderstood or are good men are struck by insanity, and, in some cases, bad writing.
The Passion of the Christ? Jesus? Pro-war, he ain't. Also, judging from his statement comparing the fallen civilization in "Apocalypto" to the Bush Administration, I'm not sure how "conservative" Mel Gibson really is.
Jusrassic Park? Conservative? God does not enter into the very basic logical principle of not cloning things that could bite your head off for material gain, ie capitalism run amuck. Or Westworld with dinosaurs.
LOTR? "One-minded religious zealots whose sole purpose is the destruction of our society"? The Religious Right? I mean, Arab fundamentalists aren't the jackasses trying to put religion posing as pseudo-science in our schools. Hence, you have a greater chance of having some religious nutjob make your kid into a gay-hating dumbass than the chance of being attacked by terrorists.
Finding Nemo? The mind reels. No pun intended. And Nemo was the name of a captain who was anti-war.
If Revenge of the Sith is anti-Bush, in the words of one George Lucas, what does that make the Phantom Menace? I'll give you a hint: NOT RIGHT WING.
And Gump. You're basically equivocating being a "righteous" "conservative" witn being mentally retarded, which, in most cases, is an insult to mentally retarded people.
Your arguments are shaky, your logic unsound.
Now, for a smutty joke. Blue Women? Pandora's Box. Heh-heh-heh.
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yes, all conservatives are Christians in the same way that all catholics are pedophiles and all muslims are bloodthirsty sociopaths.
what a dumb statement, Harry. Seriously. -
Well, being a Cameron fan and an avid follower of Avatar's journey to the screen, I found that the script in what I saw in the screening yesterday really lacked the 3D before me. This is why I agree with several reviewers who criticised the dialogue. I felt that he did a better job with T1 and T2 in this area (and now i'm really at that stage where i've seen enough CGI to be yearning for hand-made props). All in all this movie, even after such a mountain of hype, still impressed me visually, and had great pacing, though I feel Blomkamp better established an emotional connection between his aliens and story with myself.
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We'd all be blind from lens flare.
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once the 'windsheild factor' wore off, all you have left is a prettier version of Agent Smith's "humanity is an infection" speech from The Matrix.
and quite honestly, it was far more entertaining in The Matrix. That's a sci-fi movie with the same basic point: dont screw up the planet, folks. but it doesn't ram it down your neck, and it doesn't beat your face with it. It just serves it as a side-dish along with the main course and asks you to just try a taste to see if you like it.
Avatar presents it as the dry bread and water in a slave camp - eat this moldy bread and LOVE it, or starve to death. -
the lens flares would have been 'lens bubbles' and it would have looked like something out of fantasia.
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Star Trek = successful reinvigoration and interpretation of tired franchise with modern sensibilities, good ensemble cast, budget worthy of the franchise.
Avatar = DANCES with blue people. Prettily. -
I happen to like the dude, even if we disagree from time to time. Like I said, I don't know your past dealings, but that's besides the point. TREK > AVATAR for me, and you... and a few other good people here.
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Zoe Saldana would be visual viagra for all warm-blooded heterosexual men in the theater.
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The blue man says trees are nice and good. He says bad people hurt trees. I like the blue man mommy, he isn't bad like those army men that hurt trees. He should beat up those army men.
That's Avatar in a nutshell written for 5 fucking year olds. Ole James "game changer" Cameron. What a douche face fucker. -
Dec 19, 2009 11:05:03 PM CST
Forget Armageddon: Harry will cry over the 2010/2012 elections
by starship captain
"Is the history of human suffering by an aggressor really a liberal rant? Is it conservative doctrine to value commerce over the lives of the rightful owners? Because I thought you conservatives were Christians, that value life above all else. Sorry if I've been misinformed."Oh, boo-fucking-hoo, Harry. Welcome to the way the human race has ALWAYS advanced. Here's what I think of the Na'vi: fuck 'em if they won't deal with or accept a stronger, more technologically advanced force moving in. That's what you deserve to get for running around in fucking loincloths and still using bows and arrows.But nice pathetic Leftist rant as usual. Two moments I'm MOST looking forward to, at this point in time, are the 2010 midterm and 2012 Presidential elections when Liberals get THEIR fucking sorry asses handed to them by the American people, for expressing viewpoints that are as ignorant and as narrow-minded as Harry did with his Conservative Christian comment. Thank Heaven America has woken up to what a cluster fuck Obama and the Democrats are -- and movies with political messages like this (soldier decides to turn on his own and go with the other side, being willing to now kill his own comrades) will only help to seal Libs and fucking asswipe progressives fate further. Good riddance to you all, you stains.
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Why is the director man beating me over the head with a blatant allegory about our campaigns in the gulf and why is he using the macguffin of unobtanium in exchange for oil so clearly Mommy?
Isn't allegory supposed to be more cleverly couched Mommy? Did the director man write this movie just for me Mommy? That's such a nice thing Mommy. -
It was Jon Favreau who called it a "Game-changer". Not Cameron. Hate the movie all you like, but goddamnit, at least get the facts straight.
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America has wakened up to never vote for God damn Republicans ever again after the fiasco of Bush and company grinding this great nation into the ground? I think you are kidding me, the American people collectively aren't that clever.
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Dec 19, 2009 11:07:54 PM CST
...I'm starting a support group for people who haven't seen...
by flickapoo
...AVATAR. There will be coffee and cookies served and we will discuss the best and worst things about not seeing AVATAR...and how that makes us feel...
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But lets not forget Camerons, smug, condescending, belittling attitude in pre-release hype either. The fucker did it to himself.
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"…Avatar's first day stands as the third highest-grossing ever for a December release. It slots behind The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King's $34.5 million and I Am Legend's $30.1 million (and ranks 33rd among all movies), although several other December pictures were greater in terms of attendance. Among other comparable titles, Avatar had a far more prodigious beginning than the King Kong remake, another long, computer-generated spectacle, and its first day was about the same as Star Trek from earlier this year…"
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I thought all you progressives were evolutionists, Harry. Y'know - survival of the fittest, nature finds a way, or have I been misinformed. If the trees were meant to rule the planet, then shouldn't nature intervene and have them evolve themselves some hands and feet so they can fight back?
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How about a little side group for those that wish to disremember Star Trek! Maybe get our hands on some Red Matter and...
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Also...where is the "I'll be Back" or "Hasta la vista baby"? I mean, I know there is no Arnold but my point is these are bad ass lines and none of that dialogue exists in this movie. If I missed the bad ass line let me know.
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A smug, condescending, and belittling attitude are all I've noticed from you as well.
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I don't think it will be a flop by any stretch. But I also wonder how many times people will want to go back, pay $15 for the IMAX showing to soak in the visuals. I don't know, to be honest, but if I had to guess, it will not break $300 million domestically. It may come close, but something tells me people won't do the repeat business that the studio desires.
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anyone remember that pretentious fucker back in the 90s? He was some long haired hippie computer nerd who helped create Doom. And when he started his own company, they ran ads on billboards that said, "John Romero will make you his bitch so suck it down." and crap like that
Yeah his game was this little pile of dog poo called "daikatana" - it was so horribly bad, and hoplessly unable to live up to the pre-hype that it put John Romero completely out of business.
He makes games for cell phones now. -
Well, Transformers did. And Harry Potter did. That was about it.
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Why would you do that when you watched a pirated copy? Doh!
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Do not understand film. Period. LOL at thinking star trek is better than Avatar.
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"people who think this film is bad do not understand the film."
welcome to the internet, dude. You must be new here. In which case let me be the first to sadly inform you that you just used the offical LAST DITCH EFFORT of the internet. And here its only 24 or so hours after Avatar hit the screens - thats kinda early to pull out the last ditch effort, and might be a harbinger for box office failure.
next time, maybe you shouldn't hitch your wagon to an idea, and wait for the actual product first. -
Opening weekend numbers are less reliable an indicator than in the old days. It used to be that an opening weekend could get you about a third of your eventual domestic take. But then you look at NEW MOON which took in $142 million in its opening weekend and is now slowly crawling towards $280 million domestic (so, 50% of its gross will come from its first 3 days- insane!). And then there are some movies that still open small and draw in steady crowds for weeks after the fact. FOX's strategy with AVATAR was to release it now and hopefully clean up January ticket sales. I see their rationale, as DAYBREAKERS and BOOK OF ELI are R-rated and probably not going to grab the teenagers' business. But sometimes a movie can sputter without another one taking everyone's attention in place of it.
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I don't think AVATAR was "bad" but I think it's not the greatest film of all time either. But since you're here with your knowledge, don't be stingy- teach us.
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Dec 19, 2009 11:35:14 PM CST
Cato, it's not worth teaching people who watch pirated movies.
by i am the terminator
they're just drippy cunts.
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I can spot that skilled dialogue a mile away. "You're terminated!" Oy.
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If you're uninterested in "Avatar" why would you watch a pirated version? I mean the movie is designed for the big screen, with an innovative 3-D process and Dolby Digital sound—isn't it a waste of time to just watch a bad 'cam or a workprint with awful sound?
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It's "You're terminated, fucker!" So, get it right, fucker!!
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she doesn't like when I cuss on AICN... speaking of drippy cunts, oh yeah!
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you got a bingo!
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the people that say you are using the Last Ditch Effort are really using a Last Ditch Effort to circumvent the fact that, as with their sex life, they are a bit 'premature'...!
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Not me.
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I would just hate to watch a nearly 3 hour film on a format the equivalent of RealPlayer circa 1998.
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I purchased a ticket for Thursday midnight show but a death in the family precluded me from going- so I ate the ticket. And this weekend's storm has kept me indoors so I won't be able to see this movie for at least another week. I paid to see it but haven't seen it in 3-D.
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Dec 19, 2009 11:54:55 PM CST
Your interest went as far as a pirated copy you mean.
by i am the terminator
lame-o. What a cuntish way to watch a movie. you probably rushed to grab a copy just so you could meh about it here.
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it should succeed on any quality format.
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blackindigo is good peoples too.
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they were walking up the tree trunk and the moss is lighting up under their feet? This movie will sink up with the Thriller album instead of Dark Side of the Moon. The final battle will be set to Wanna be Startin Something.
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but you should't give money to those filthy pirating russians.
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I was totally unprepared for incredible the experience was. I wasn't particularly enthusiastic about the film, thought it totally overhyped, and had my expectations set to "meh". I essentially opted to go because I hadn't seen a film in 3D iMax at our local cinema yet.
And while there are certain things a reasonable critic could nitpick (some of the dialog is a little stilted, and the marines are portrayed as entirely one dimensional), the sum total of the experience in 3D was just utterly amazing. I just cannot imagine trying to watch Avatar in 2D, honestly. It would be like going to an Italian restaurant without a sense of smell. Yeah, you can still enjoy it one some level but... -
I appreciate the condolences. And I will go and see it in the theater, paying for a SECOND time when I get the chance.
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the ultimate FX reel than a genre-defining film? Or even a solid action movie?
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I really expected to see something I hadn't seen before. But all of the creatures, landscapes and tech reminded me Star Wars, Aliens and other films that were just much better. Were the fx good? Hell yeah! But for this budget they'd better be. I dunno. I'll try it again next week.
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...it's sex night. That's right, we're reduced to scheduling the sticky...
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...romance. Hardly any blue body paint involved.
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Harry, you could not be more wrong. Avatar is a movie which features some of the best visuals, special effects, and action sequences of all time, it's also one of the stupidest movies of all time. the real problem is James Cameron the writer, not the director, James Cameron the writer sucks. Cameron's only two real good movies (this is an entirely different discussion and one i wish not to talk about now), Terminator and T2 were co-written by him, and wow does it show. Avatar is strictly by the books, following every movie formula and cliche humanly possible. it sucks that cameron put so much time and effort into making the movie look so beautiful, and put no effort into the screenplay. there are some aspects of the film i really do enjoy story-wise, i found the whole human-avatar connection fascinating, as well as the universe cameron created. but the characters, wow. Cameron creates the most stereotypically evil characters, which would be fine if he wasn't automatically making them the American government and military. Stephen Lang and Giovanni Ribisi are great fun, but the fact that they represent America and that they're only drive is money, shows how lazy and how dumb Cameron is sometimes. at the end of the movie cameron has the audiences cheering for the Na'vi, which is just fine because they're the peaceful good guys, who massacre the evil military. look, i get it, but i had a hard time enjoying the movie, knowing that the whole time Cameron is trying to sell me this stupid message, and not a very well thought out message. whatever, look, i wholeheartedly recommend for people to see Avatar, just shut off your brain before you see it, i mean really shut it off
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Thanks to you too- it was my girl's grandmother- 94 years old. A good life, a truly sweet lady too.
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That's all I kept thinking through the whole thing. Great FX just nothing special. Unless I get Imax in my living room I don't think I could get through it at home.
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You don't need blue paint to hiss at each other like a pair of mancats in heat. You do, however, need a lot of glue to keep those tails attached.
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...grandmothers...
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They don't make 'em like that no more. I think, in some ways, the women's movement made women boring and humorless. Not all women, my girl is a fucking pisser, but in a general sense I think things have regressed in the quality department.
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You live through that shitstorm, and WWII, you can pretty much handle most anything. What do we have to talk about with our generation? the great blackout of 2003? Yikes.
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An excellent post. In fact, it was so excellent you're proved correct. I actually honestly have nothing to add. It's sort of shut me up. Good post.
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http://www.buzzfeed.com/rollotamasi00/james-camerons-nightmare-99r
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What? You mean the Na'vi aren't updated versions of the Ewoks fighting against the technologically-superior Stormtroopers?
Hunh.
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and holy crap, TehCreepyThinMan, you are definitely a new breed: a militant Liberal. Is that an oxymoron? A bit autophobic? You are what you hate, and all that, or is it just pathological? And all this from a movie talkback. Interesting, in a psychological sense, but it does boggle the mind.
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Christ, I really hope they are... otherwise Cameron's dystopian view of humanity may be more accurate than I thought.
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Something that I was hinting at in my review, but didn't quite say. Lucas gave us a joke of a battle between teddy bears and Storm Troopers, but James Cameron remade the movie, or at least, that aspect of the final battle and made it what it should have always been, and more.
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Dec 20, 2009 12:37:48 AM CST
Yackbacker, I'm sure that an "Avatar" pron is in the works —
by blakindigo
Wanna bet it's due any day now?
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Cosplay involving two Na'vi females would be worth a watch. It all starts when they're cleaning eachother...
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is that I am one of the most hardened cynics on the planet. For real. Want honest proof? Let me symbolically take a big snorting spit on anyone who respects Mother Theresa. You know why? She was a fraud. She actually didn't do any care for the sick and dying. She actually told a biographer she didn't do her work to help any of the sick people. She did it to trick them into joining her religion. Mother Theresa's orphanages and hospices were filthy and abuse was/is rampant, because MT didn't spend the money on helping any of the poor. She did it ALL to promote her religion and for no other reason. She was a blight on the region and a monster. Be glad she's gone. However, her legacy of abuse, mental torture and neglect is starting to become true, as efforts have begun to negate her beatification since the supposed miracle she performed after death has been totally disproved See/ Hardcore cynic. But everything i just said is also true. Cynicism RE: people = truth.
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Mother Theresa was a fraud? Fuck this shit, I'm moving to Pandora to film lesbian cat scenes.
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Harry loved your review. Agree 100%. Saw it last night with my family and had to go back again today. I believe I actually enjoyed it better the second time around. I’m off for 3 weeks so I figure I’ll see at least 5 times and I’ll take anyone I can to see it. I already bumped into my 65 year old neighbor who never goes to the movies (loves Netflix) and he’s going to join me for an IMAX showing next week. I feel like I did when I was 15 and saw Star Wars 7 times that summer. I find it humorous how everyone’s complaining about how the stories so old and been told numerous times. I grew up reading Edger Rice Burroughs and if you’ve read one of his books you’ve read them all. They were all the same, but I couldn’t get enough. I read every Tarzan, Princes of Mars, Earth Core, and Venus multiple times, basically everything in print in the 70’s. Sorry I just don’t get bored with this shit. This movie gives me the same feeling I had when I would read that pulp and I’m going to keep going back. I don’t know if it’s adrenalin or what, but this movie moves me big time.
By the way I celebrated “Avatar Day” in my class by showing the trailer and Thanator chase scene to all 200+ plus of my students before we left on break, so I’ve done my part in getting out the word of mouth.
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How the hell is this film nominated in best picture categories?! It looks amazing, but the dialogue and story are just boring. It's worth seeing in the theater, it looks great, but FFS! this is not a best picture nominee!
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And will it be in 3-D?
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Ghandi. Do a Google on "grandi fraud" and read up on it. Guy never even fasted, just pretended to in order to get publicity. Also, spent a "lot of money" to stay "in poverty." IE, promoting the idea he was in poverty when he never really was, and lived quite comfortablty while the Untouchables suffered. Nice guy, Mr. Ghandi. The Ben Kingsley flick is a lie.
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are just frauds for the most part.
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while the organization had millions and millions of dollars. None of it was spent on medical supplies since living in poverty was one of it's tenants. The sick and infirm taken to it would receive washing of wounds and prayer and basic / minimal nourishment.
The big beef was the washing of wounds since it was continuous and would wipe away scabs and prevent healing. It was also reported to be painfull wiping on sores, thus causing nonstop torment to those unable to fend for themselves -
The money shot for me was Scotty going *I'm giving her all she's got*
Found the rest to be pretty shallow and stupid.
I'd rather see GI Joe again than Star Trek -
lol...it's been out for one day you sad, angry, undersexed nerds. A $27 million opening day for a non-sequel/non-franchise/non-comic book movie during the biggest East Coast blizzard in fucking history is pretty goddamn respectable. God, you little faggots are pathetic. Cry some more about how rich Cameron is. You make me laugh.
I know people like you: you will never amount to anything and everyone you meet in life shits all over you because you are pitiful, joyless and weak...but on the internet you are too cool for school and use big words and thumb your noses at escapism.
Jesus, some of you people need to get laid or take some drugs (good drugs, like pot, not the ritalin your doctor prescribed) and chill the fuck out. It's a fucking *movie*--a movie I bet a lot of you haven't even seen--and you fuckers hate it like it raped your mother in front of you and then murdered your dog.
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ziing
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I read that you said Lucas should have died before making the prequels.
Well, if you can defend Avaturd then I just do not think you could be an honest person.
I understand why some would feel like the prequels are bad. That is fine. I personally thought that Episode 3 was worthy of the first trilogy but whatever. Still had some bad acting and awkward dialogue. Not going to defend it here (although I will gladly on another occassion).
No. The only thing I want to say is that the acting in Avatar is just as flat if not worse. The dialogue is twice as bad as the worst moment in Star Wars ever (I'm talking Episode 2 Padme/Anakin bad). The story is just the WORST piece of junk I can imagine for this context. Seriously. The most predictable, forced, suspenseless, careless story-and its 3 HOURS LONG!!! I can forgive acting and even dialogue at times but if the story is bad, WHY EVEN TELL IT! The visuals had me wowed for the first hour until I was just overwhelmed with this terrible story. I couldn't wait for the movie to be over. Honestly. Any more cliches and I would have died. How the nerds can receive this as the second coming and yet malign the prequels so harshly, I will never understand.
The nerd community that I have loved has proven to me that all they care about is cinematography -
I am not about to read every post in this thread, but let me just say that the reason I do not like the prequels is because, in my opinion, they took a mythology that I loved and turned it into a fucking joke. I don't think they are terrible *films*...on the contrary, they are pretty amazing pieces of cinema in a lot of ways...I just think they are terrible additions to the Star Wars franchise. They do not feel, to me, like they are in the same series as the classic trilogy. They are, collectively, like the Godfather 3 of the Star Wars universe.
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than anyone in Avatar. I mean that. He has less charisma than Worthington, and that is saying something. And the kid from the first one is even worse.
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I love how Harry states in Mike Russel's review that because it was mixed-to-negative he didn't post it sooner. Let that sink in for a while. Coincidentally Harry's review is as glowing as you could posssibly imagine. Hmmm... Also I love how Harry says he loves the story of it. Who cares about multidimensional characters, or a script with intelligent dialogue, or a script that is even slightly original, right? It's ironic that the movie's in 3D but the characters are all cardboard cutouts.
The story is awesome even if all the key elements of it are done terribly? Whenever the visuals try to grab you, and you consider giving in, the horribly written script sucks you right out of it.
It literally looks as if Cameron sat on his ass the whole time for all these years waiting until technology catches up to his vision, diving in the ocean, instead of retooling his script.
Beaks tried to talk himself into loving this, but it looks like Harry succeeded to do what Beaks couldn't. Still, I'm quite impressed by this review, even though I strongly disgree with it. -
The 3D effects are the most amazing visual experience I've ever had in the theater, and that counts for a lot. The CG faces are the most expressive I've ever seen. The story unfortunately felt like it was going through the motions, and nothing was surprising there. The dialogue seemed pretty basic too, and Sam Worthington was just serviceable as the lead. Sigourney was outstanding. I wanted more Michelle Rodriguez. Giovanni did a good job as corporate douche. Stephen Lang was unforgivably two dimensional. So, it's flawed, but the technology is indeed gamechanging, and I felt as though I actually visited Pandora.
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in the classic Star Wars trilogy as there is in Avatar. I am not saying it's better than classic SW...of course it is NOT...but don't let your nostalgic love of SW rewrite history: those movies weren't blessed with mind-blowing dialogue crafted for mature, sophisticated adults either. Those movies were great because they introduced us to a whole new universe, because they were so much pulp-flavored fun, and because they brought mythic storytelling into the space age. Not because the dialogue was written by a fucking master screenwriter.
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If you read my other posts, then you would also know that I think AVATAR was nothing special. In fact, aside from what I would deem first-class special FX, I found AVATAR to be boring in many parts. I was ripping on the prequels initially for them being shown-up by WETA. But since you raised the prequels as an issue in general, let me elaborate on my tragic disappointment with those movies:
Episode I- there was (as a brilliant YouTube series of reviews stated) no protagonist. No main character had a character arc either. Stuff happened and the characters were there for the ride. Second, the story was an affront to logic- so many instances of plotting making zero sense exist that it would take me hours to unpack. And I'll just ignore Jar Jar as well.
Episode II- another missed opportunity. The love story is that film's biggest failing- a product of wretched acting and equally terrible dialogue. Obi Wan was good- but he couldn't save that movie. And the Clone battle was eye-popping but, like with Avatar, it became a visual feast with no meat. It was just razzle-dazzle. And I maintain that Yoda kicking ass actually diminished the mystery of that character. Imagine if they saved his skills for one epic fight v. Palpatine instead. Which brings me to...
Episode III- Anakin's turn was messed up for me. Lucas went back and reshot large parts of the movie dealing with this issue- focusing on premonitions of Padme's death when Lucas' original concept was that Anakin was a power-hungry, arrogant dude. His whole speech on Mustafar was the original material, and I would have bought that more than the "I did it for love" angle Lucas tried to shoehorn into the movie. But whatever, that's my personal taste. Aside from that, a 30 minute-long duel at the end was too much- it got mind-numbing. By the time it ended, I was bored by the confrontation I had anticipated for decades. Sorry.
The prequels lacked the genuine charm, fun and verve of the original movies. THE CLONE WARS show is much closer to the OT than the prequels. But that's not enough to save the prequels after the fact. I love STAR WARS- I will watch the prequels every so often just because it's STAR WARS, but I cannot kid myself into believing that anything in those 3 movies comes close to what the OT accomplished. -
And my problem with some of Avatar's dialogue is it just felt so flat and serviceable, rather than natural. Cameron also hammers you over the head with what a character is thinking by having that character TELL YOU. It didn't kill the movie for me, but it made me wince a few times.
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sci-fi *adventure* movie since Return of the Jedi.
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Dec 20, 2009 1:39:02 AM CST
Lucas saw Avatar and now he's going back to fix the Prequels.
by orionsangels
Lucas says technology just wasn't there at the time. So for the bluray editions of Star Wars. Jar Jar will be redone, but now with Weta doing the effects.
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Because that's the only improvement that will fix Jar Jar.
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Seriously? Man, I love classic Star Wars...LOVE IT...especially Empire, which is probably my second favorite movie of all time, but the first one in particular has some TERRIBLE dialogue and some VERY wooden acting to boot.
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Avatar is not. The only dialogue that made me smile slightly was some of Rodriguez's smacktalk in battle, and Signourney saying she wanted "a sample" when they bring her to the holy place. The rest of it was just flat. I still really liked the movie, but I'm a little disappointed it was so by-the-numbers.
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/noms. Wait till you see that Smugfest that is Up in The Air. I've actually seen it this time. And there is a twist ending you can see coming a mile away and its fucking awful. Can't believe critics are eating that shit film up.
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He fucked the best director of 2009. I'm not talking about Jason Reitman.
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Complaining about the sex scene? Saying that the whole theater was laughing? I call bullshit. For one thing, there is no sex scene. They make out and embrace, but no loincloths are snapped off. The scene fades out before we see the deed. It was very tastefully done.
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about this movie is that as a father, i understand my 14 year old, tree hugging, vegetarian daughter a little better.
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It looks pretty bad. Does not hold up at all. Really I can't see myself ever watching Avatar at home.
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...I trust God. I have to, because the other option, is no option. As far as those who do wrong in God's name, well, this is a holy war on a spiritual level, and according to Father Malachi Martin...who was close to a Pope in the 60s, he said that he and the then Pope believed that the Smoke of Satan had entered the Church, meaning satanists, had penetrated the Church at high levels. The enemy is now within, as predicted in The Book of Revelation (again, mention of the Smoke of Satan entering the Church is made there, the reference Father Martin was refering to). Have faith in the loving God, that is all you need, not the Church or holy men/women, they will only mislead you on purpose or by mistake. Trust in your own positive inner voice, and know that is the voice of God asking you to do what you already know to be the right thing.
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Tonight I went to see Avatar again with some friends from high school who wanted to see it in 3D. The 3D was cool but gave me a fucking headache for the last few hours. Now that the novelty has worn off, I can say that Avatar isn't a very good movie apart from the excellent technical work. I stand by my initial assessment that Avatar is filled with characters that are nothing more then ciphers trudging through a cliché riddled snoozefest. The sign of a good movie is when you can watch it over and over again and although you know everything that’s going to happen, you still feel the moments because the actors, the story and skill of the Director makes you feel it. It’s like how you can watch Star Wars and feel everything that Luke is feeling when he’s staring at the sunset on Tatooine. Or how the moment when Vader reveals he’s Luke’s father in Empire STILL gives you chills. There’s nothing like those moments in Avatar. There’s nothing wrong with embracing clichés but if the people involved in making the movie don’t invest the story and acting with enough earnestness then it just comes off as boring and predictable. There was absolutely NOTHING in this movie that surprised me. Everything was telegraphed well in advance. Not one single thing happened in this boring and expensive mess that made me go “OH SHIT!” or got me excited. I think Speed Racer was a better fucking movie at this point and I HATED the original cartoon nor do I give a shit about racing AT ALL. But what the Wachowski’s and the actors did was invest their, admittedly, clichéd story with enough personality and life that it made Speed Racer my favorite summer flick of 2008, even more so then The Dark Knight or Iron Man. I still can’t fucking believe how much I love that movie. As for Avatar, I wont be seeing it again at the theatre but will more then likely get the DVD for all the behind-the-scenes technical shit because I like that stuff. In regards to where Avatar fits in Cameron’s oeuvre, I’d place it dead last after The Abyss and True Lies. This movie will NOT be remembered or mentioned in the same breath as The Terminator, Aliens or Terminator 2. I am soo fucking disappointed.
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...like that, and she is lucky to have a Dad like you!!!
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Its big loud stupid simple and a lot of fun.
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After you said "I think Speed Racer was a better fucking movie at this point" I stopped reading.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:02:16 AM CST
I'M GOING TO WATCH THE FOUNTAIN AGAIN TO BE REMINDED.....
by tehcreepythinman
How a simple story, beautifully told, can make my heart sing.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:02:52 AM CST
U wanna know the secret why Avatar is getting so much love?
by orionsangels
This is just my theory, but it makes sense. Okay, think of all the 3D movies there's been. They've just about all been for kids. The first one I saw was Miley Cyrus in concert and the effect blew me away. I came out praising a crappy documentary about Miley Cyruss. It was the most amazing thing I ever saw in my life! Then we saw Bolt 3D and by the time we saw Monsters Vs Aliens in 3D. I was used to the 3D effect.
Now who went to these movies and who actually went to the trouble to see them in 3D? Most theaters don't have 3D. You have to go out of your way to find a theater with a digital projection. So it was parents and kids. Most didn't even pay for the 3D versions.
So guess what, most geeks didn't go to these movies. Most adults in general didn't go to these kids movies, let alone in 3D. Conan O'brien and Andy didn't go. Jimmy Kimmel didn't go. Lettermen. There first 3d movie was Avatar. Didn't you know London just got 3D with Avatar. They're seeing one of these 3D digital movies for the first time. That's why the brits are going crazy for it. Only it's not Miley Cyruss in concert. For them It's Avatar. I'd be blown away even more if it had been the first 3D movie I had seen. To Avatar was nice 3D, but I was used to it. One thing I don't like about the 3D either, is that it tints the movie and makes the colors look flat. -
You liked Speed Racer. You're OK in my book.
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disproven as politically motivated slander. He certainly had his demons and was known to be vain and surly at times. Unfortunately myths and celebrity obscure the simple, most essential truth: these people are flawed, vulnerable and contradictory humans. They aren't saints. They are humans that have recognizable and in some cases horrific shortcomings. They strive to attain an ambiguous ideal which is often structured by religious or social mores. And, despite their flaws — sometimes out of opportunity, sometimes from pure chance, they inspire the minds of countless others to embrace the struggle to achieve their 'ideal.'Look at someone like Ayn Rand. Her politics are contradictory, somewhat fascist in there absolutism and cold 'objectivist' thinking (she also had no issues with 'Tiger Wood-ing' her husband, apparently). But, read "The Fountainhead" and see how those ideals are expressed through the structure of story and character; they reveal more about the nature of striving for and achieving excellence than a good portion of her essays. Charlatans and con men rarely inspire selfless acts without demanding some kind of recognition or tribute for their seemingly random acts of kindness. But, those are calculated, cynical and predatory traits. Guess what? We all have them—even if we don't always act on them. And, we all act on them in various degrees. I remember this young kid from my old neigbourhood. He was cool but distant. I'd always remember him quietly listening to other kids talking about how they would get over on some 'duck' or how they hustled some 'herb' speaking in the language of teenage bravado and the one-upmanship of male bonding. They were kids, not really predators. And like teenagers they were cynical as hell, full of platitudes about the awfulness of the world; and of course they really hadn't experienced the world, they were just ripe with teen angst. I can also remember (quite vividly, unfortunately) seeing this same kid lying on the sidewalk, blood leaking from his neck where the fatal shot punctured it. There was a group of bystanders who heard the shot from a block away. How did all those cynical ideals help him when he was lying there? Did he 'get over on some herb'? Where the fuck where all his friends then?Cynicism is simply a corruption of idealism. But it's lazy, a crutch for those who have the luxury of indulging in it. To be an idealist takes more courage and to CONTINUE to be an idealist and do the 'noble thing' in the face of the most vicious, hateful vitriolic anti-hope is one of the reasons humanity, with all it's horrific tragedies and stupidities still inevitably survives. Because humans don't continually allow themselves to indulge in the self-loathing and despair.
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That actually ADDED a NEW DIMENSION to it, was Mark Pellington's U23D. I fucking hate U2, but man that movie was fucking awesome.....i was high.
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I can quote most of Star Wars as I have seen it a hundred times and it has been quoted many many times in popular culture. Give it time.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:06:55 AM CST
optimus122, THAT'S JUST HOW I FEEL, CAN'T BLAME YOU THOUGH.....
by tehcreepythinman
I just didn't feel ANYTHING towards Avatar's characters. Cameron is soo blunt it’s like he was smacking me over the head and telling me “THIS IS SAD! THIS IS HAPPY!”. I mention Speed Racer because it's as clichéd as FUCK but I felt soo much more invested in the characters plight.
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but an actual movie with real people and interesting places, and it didn't even have a cute talking dog.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:08:27 AM CST
Avatar: To Me It Takes Place In The Same Universe As...
by media messiah
...Aliens, so it was fun taking a trip back to that very same universe to see a glimpse of that same Earth culture and what it is doing in other parts of space. Sad that Riddick didn't stay as well grounded in its original concept from Pitch Black to the progression of what was Chronicles of Riddick. In many ways, Avatar is how Chronicles should have felt...and looked like.
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Your eyes get used to the effect.
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300,000 extras appeared in the funeral sequence. About 200,000 were volunteers and 94,560 were paid a small fee (under contract). The sequence was filmed on 31st Jan 1981, the 33rd anniversary of Gandhi's funeral. 11 crews shot over 20,000 feet of film, which was pared down to 125 seconds in the final release.
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If you think Cameron's story is lame or recycled, fine, but he told it well. It certainly didn't pull me out of the movie like Transformers (either one), Terminator: Salvation, and the new Star Trek did. I really enjoyed the film, and I'm gonna check it out in IMAX 3-D. My wife loved it even more than me, which is a little surprising for a genre film.
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Thought it was pretty ordinary
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It was a truly great anime, but the Wachowskis did not respect the original material, you could tell, and hence, they screwed it up in their live action version, which is completely unforgivable!!!
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3-D is done. It just seems kind of pointless. Unless you can do it without the fucking glasses. Or at least put pads on the glasses. What sucked for me was that I wanted to lean my head back, but because of the glasses I had to keep it forward the whole time.
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Then you don't know what the Brothers W were aiming for. Lets face it they steal shit from Asian movies all the time. Just like Dioblo Cody did with Juno.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:16:51 AM CST
Media Messiah, I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SPEED RACER ANIME....
by tehcreepythinman
I FUCKING HATED that cartoon. That's what I find soo shocking about my love for the movie. Could just be my obsession for Christina Ricci who I'd like to tie up and show my Star Wars toy collection :D
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Totally agree. It was well told. And the action was original. Unlike T4 which was just a clips real of the best action scenes from the past 20 years.
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How the Speed Racer movie wasn't close enough to the show.....umm yeah. Go see the Gigantor movie then to see how that turned out.
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on the Blu Ray, I couldn't make it past the part where Kyle and Marcuse get into the truck and are getting chased by some little flying terminator hunter whatever. I think the Avatar effect has just come to play
The shit looked like a bad syfy movie. So damn cheesy looking. I really want to see Avatar again. I want to take my 6 year old too. I mostly want to get back to Pandora. I love it there. I love the peaceful parts of the movie maybe best of all
The senes of Neytiri explaining how to make the connection to an Eclan (sp?), and them flying togethers, them...fuck who am I kidding. I love every scene with Neytiri in it. Its the most visually pleasing thing this fucking movie. Its so peaceful and beautiful...and spiritual... and its really really fucking trippy... and the bad dude is so fucking cool, he doesn't give a fuck that he can't breath or when he is on fire... he's so fucking badass... I want to see this movie again really bad.... I love Avatar...goodbye... -
When I see a movie I like to get in the fifth row from the front and slouch down in my seat. Not being able to do that annoyed me. It's like whacking off without any lube.
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Holy crap. I was just watching T:S, too. I still think it's a decent action film. But, yeah, compared to Avatar, it's like watching a TV show.
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Is that it fucking ripped off a scene from T3. I was just like??? Really this AGAIN?
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Yeah. They need to work on the design of the glasses fo sho. Also they need a fucking rubber stubs on the nose.
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any member of the academy that nominated the fucking Avatar song over Keith David singing from Princess and the Frog. Has no fucking balls what so ever. I could probably watch Keith David just read the phone book for two hours. Let alone he gives us a fucking song and you ignore it? For the first time in a long time I want Disney to win the fucking musical section of the Academy Awards.
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Was pretty fucking stupid.
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We got to Pandora too fast. We never saw Jake, crippled and living in a dystopic Earth. Never got to see how miserable his life was and how it could have influenced his choice to stay on Pandora and live as a Na’vi. We never saw how he was willing to do the company’s bidding because he was so desperate to get his legs back and discovered something better in his new body on this alien world. I never felt that he had truly made a connection with this alien woman. The packaging isn’t important, it’s the connection of their souls that binds them together and a much more thoughtful, emotionally subtle Director could have made me feel that. Two souls coming together across space and through the superficial reality we live in. That’s what was missing.
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Steven Lang dolls Sideshow has sold. Seriously, that thing is a fucking $1,000 +. Who's going to pay that shit for a pretty much unknown actor?
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I was thinking that Weaver must have a clause in her contract where every movie she agrees to do has to have her in a scene where she comes out of a cryogenic freeze unit.
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Yeah I agree, the whole concept of him becoming part of the Avatar program was TOO fucking easy. Like if they were putting his brother through such an intense experience....wouldn't his ass be grounded to some base or something? Also what annoyed me were the other marines. Why the fuck was Stephan Lang some huge bad ass while all the other marines just looked like whatever shulb they got to join up? Seriously that scene where he is hyping everyone up to go to battle it looked like he was talking a room full of guys who post daily on AICN.
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Hahahah nice. This movie for her was Gorillas in the Mist meets Aliens.
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It was a typical Jim Cameron read on human behavior- he honestly thinks people act like that? Maybe in Hollywood...
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I knew there were fucking holes in the plot I could drive that fucking bomber plane they had through. But I had a good time. It was dumb fun and looked good. I mean its one of those movies the more you spend thinking about it the more you'll get upset.
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Was fucking annoying. I wanted one of the techies to throw them at her and say "happy now you fucking bitch!". The people that work there are scientists, just like her, not her bitches to fetch her shit.
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When she said, "Where's my cig." I was hoping for a throw at you shot of a cigarette pack coming at your face.
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With everything. Especially from the score to the speak. Like the one marine yelling GET SOME!!! What is this? A navy recruitment commercial with voice over from Kieth David? He really did take his initial characters from Aliens and used them again here. Sam has become a more feminine version of Ripley, Sigourney is Bishop, Ribisi is Carter Burke, Grandma's Boy kid is Bill Pullman, and Latino girl is Latino girl, Lang is Michael Biehn.
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There was a lot condensed into the opening, but, somehow not enough to resonate? Seems like there was a lot that was cut out or condensed for time but, sacrificed more character. Maybe the parts cut out of the scriptment would've solved that?
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5th Element. 4 a Day! I love that movie. I love how Avatar is getting all this BEST MOVIE/BEST DIRECTOR/BEST SONG....yet at least the Globes are smart enough to see D9 gets a best screenplay nom. That movie should be getting best picture/director/actor as well. Kind of bullshit, I'll remember that movie far longer then I will Avatar.
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The movie is fine. It just doesn't hold up to nit pick. The movie is a summer blockbuster in the middle of winter. Its just a lot of fun.
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So I can't speak to that. As for pacing, the movie moves very quickly in the beginning and then shit kinda runs in place until the last 35 minutes when the big showdown happens. A lot of what's leading up to that is meandering.
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You want to know what I believe in? Nothing. We are born into existence without souls and we descend into death without souls. We exist only to make more of ourselves. There is no god, no religion, no truth to the universe except what you can taste or touch or see or hear. THIS is the reality of existence, what you see and hear and feel. And when you die, you simply puff out. So nothing you say or do has any significance or relevance at all, none. Pitiless, the universe rewards only cruelty as its single greatest denominator between life and death. The cruelest lives prove the most successsful.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:48:32 AM CST
Series7, THEN THERE'S THE THING ABOUT THE DEAD BROTHER.....
by tehcreepythinman
We feel nothing about the death of this guys TWIN FUCKING BROTHER……AT ALL!!! He’s literally nothing but a plot device, forgotten within ten minutes of the movie. It’s “oh, he’s dead, soo sad, oh well, hey, I got his plane ticket, off to Pandora, tally fucking ho!”. Jake has no fucking story and being crippled is his whole background. The character is paper thin. I could have used a good 30 minutes on Earth where we saw his horrible life and him grieving over his DEAD TWIN BROTHER!
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The best way I can describe this. Go watch any wild animal. That's all there is.
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Yeah I talked about that with my wife. We thought it just seemed real stupid. Like he just gets shot??? OK? I would have bought it more if something went wrong in trial, hyper sleep or something. And maybe seeing some of Jake studying and wanting to do a good job. I understand why there is none there. You don't need it to fill Jim's purpose.
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Warming up to Jake was really fucking easy. Like one minute she fucking hates him. After his first mission with them she's become his mother.
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I was hoping Jake would actually find his brother as a Na'vi living in the wilderness. His dead human body found and then burned. He and Jake could have found the Navi girl. The brother ends up betraying the Na'vi, so Jake has to clean up the mess.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:53:11 AM CST
saber12, HAHA, YEAH, LIKE IN SHAUN OF THE DEAD WHERE.....
by tehcreepythinman
Ed hit's Shaun in the face with the peanuts.
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I almost watched it last night, then caught Avatar this morning. I wonder what that would have been like? Would my mind just turn to mush? I haven't seen Transformers 2 after Bay rapped my childhood with the first one. But I can't not see it.
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just behind Aliens and Terminator 1/2. Really fucking loved the experience. I seriously had no problems with the plot or anything, it was typical Cameron. This film had me grinning from start to finish.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:57:13 AM CST
Series7, THE FIFTH ELEMENT WAS A GREAT MOVIE!!!FACT!!!
by tehcreepythinman
Another simple, cliched story but it's filled with soo much craziness that you can't help but love it.
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—and I don't mean to sound patronizing. But, you've got to get out more and experience 'life'— and I mean fully engage in experience it. Then maybe try to construct meanings for the various things that support and…ahem…refute your generalizations. Now of I could just get off the saddle of my fucking high horse I might be able to make worthwhile suggestions…
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I'd show her something else other than my Star Wars collection though, but I get your meaning!!! Haha!!!!
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Dec 20, 2009 3:04:51 AM CST
blakindigo, STRUCTURALLY IT'S MISSING A FIRST ACT.....
by tehcreepythinman
We really needed to see Jake on Earth being injured and interacting with his brother so we could feel the loss of both his brother and his legs. That would have sold the rest of the story a bit better IMHO.
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No, because Up and Coraline in 3D was a more satisfying experience to me when leaving the theater. I never questioned the money I paid for those movies.
If Avatar was as epic throughout the WHOLE movie instead of just the last 30 minutes, we would have had an all-time great. Or if I wasn't a fan of anime (Princess Mononoke). -
Dec 20, 2009 3:13:20 AM CST
RefutetheHype, YOU SOUND LIKE CUTSHAW FROM THE 9TH CONFIGURATION
by tehcreepythinman
I feel more like Kane. I despise religion but I wouldn’t dismiss the idea that there might be something beyond this world that we can't even being to comprehend. I wish and hope there is. Otherwise the universe is a cold and remorseless horrorshow and the only logical thing is to laugh in the face of oblivion.
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...we didn't need to spend anymore time with his death than what was given. He lost his brother. He mourned him on Earth when we saw his dead body being burned. That's it! Anymore and it would've run on too long, and people would've complained about the length; then make negative comparisons to King Kong or some nonsense. With everything that was needed in the story for the audience to appreciate what was going on, the essential was shown. His twin's death served its purpose and we were done with him. Get the fuck out of here about that already...
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—I saw it on Wednesday and I'm still up in the air. I think you, Series7, Media Messiah, YackBacker and saber 12 all make good points.It also makes me wonder, what could Cameron have cut out if he used the 1st act suggestion with Jake and his brother. I think there were one too many shots of Na'vi tree worship but, not much else. Interesting challenge.
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Dec 20, 2009 3:15:01 AM CST
didnt need to see Earth, ddin't need the brother interaction
by miyamoto_musashi
it wasn't about that, can use our imagination re what Earth looks like,what his brother was like and what he felt from the impact of losing his legs, given what we are told and through our own life experiences and interaction.
Movie could have easily been called Pandora for me.
For Aliens I really didn't need the extended cut, wouldn't need one for this either. -
I am so glad Cameron just got right into, and that the majority of the exposition in the trailer go over and done with quick. We got to Pandora quick. Thank fucking god. That is part of why this film is so rewatchable for me. I love the fuck out of Pandora and just want to be there and see the beauty of it and Neytiri as long as possible.
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...how Cameron took too long to get to Pandora, like Skull Island in King Kong. The geeks will never be satisfied. There will always be something to nitpick. Sully's tragic past had more to do with his legs than his brothers death; and it totally made sense. His brother died accidentally, his death gave way for Sully to be integrated into the Avatar program. That's it. Cameron showed us just enough to get the gist of what was going on; he didn't need to spoonfeed the audience. We KNOW he's miserable. We KNOW that he doesn't feel whole because of his legs. Its what happens on Pandora that's important. The introduction to the world itself; setting up the characters and their motivations. Sullys dead brother is the least thing on ANYBODYS mind. Who gives a shit. I didn't. He DID grieve, the whole ten minute intro was Sullys voice over with shots of his brothers dead body being burned. We KNOW his death meant alot to him. Anything else about his brother and you guys would've complained about how he beat a dead horse showing shit over and over again.
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Damn good animated film by the way. Very fucking similar ideas to Avatar. I know Up is the greatest movie of all time, and I'm Pixar's biggest fan. But seriously Up is my 4th favorite animated movie I've seen this year. And I still need to see Fantastic Mr. Fox and Max and Mary.
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Dec 20, 2009 3:22:58 AM CST
Bingo! What melthebloody just said. Just send Me Back To Pandora
by spacezilla
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If they had do a, Something happened in hyper sleep or some shit. It just seemed like.... well they said that the avatar grew over those five years they were in space....so wouldn't there have been scientist back ups to cover for his brother?
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...Cameron showed us. now imagine a wasted 20 mins or so on Earth, just to show that Sully was fucking miserable. Fuck. That. Jack. Cameron got right into it. Master storyteller he is. The movie was 2 1/2 hrs long. Think about how vital the audiences understanding of Pandora and its species is; the exposition about the unobtatinum, the schools for the natives, etc. Sully and his brother would've felt like filler. Who gives a shit about that? Why not show how he lost his legs? That's just stupid. Its part of the backstory and we're given a little bit at a time. I don't need to see Sully fighting a war to know what he's been through. Just looking at the poor bastard, i know...
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Is that this movie does not look cheap. It fucking felt real and great, I never felt for once like....EHHHH that shit looks fake.
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...no! Because the reason they needed and used Sully was because of his genes; how similiar they were to his twin brothers. That's why he was chosen. There was NO OTHER backup.
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Especially as a side kick to Stephan Lang. Lang was a comic book cut out of what a HOOAH HOOAH marie is like. Ribisi was too much of a pussy corporate guy to me. They needed someone older. Actually the bad guy from Speed Racer would have made more sense.
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Yeah but it wasn't like his Avatar was READY right now. They fucking had five years. They obviously had training stations/camps for these scientist. You think that there would have been someone just coming up who could have taken over. Like, why would they have JUST TWO new scientist coming on board? All this money and they were only training 2 scientist? Bullshit.
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I can tell a lot of people who saw Avatar in 3D haven't seen too many 3D movies. I saw Miley Cyrus 3D concert. Bolt3D, MonstersVsAliens in 3D. Maybe I'm just used to the 3D by now. I thought it was good 3D, but nothing I hadn't seen before.
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Imagine if we had spent some time on Earth and it was a Blade Runneresque industrial hellhole? Saw Jake struggling with his disability, the way people treated him, his brothers’ death etc…None of you have any patience. Christ, I can’t imagine how any of you could sit through Jurassic Park today without screaming that it’s too slow. You don’t even get to the dinosaurs for about 45 minutes and that’s better because it builds your anticipation. Same thing with Alien. This fucking ADD generation man. You want everything RIGHT FUCKING NOW! It’s the reason that you’d rather go to McDonald’s then go to a real restaurant and order a good meal that you might have to wait ten or fifteen minutes to get.
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If Worthington had just joined the program and the main guy had gotten killed and he was next in line. I just don't buy that there is this HUGE military scientist thing and they don't live on base or on some lock down or some sort.
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Like I said. Only 3D movie I've seen that ADDED a whole new level was U23D. But it was the first 3D movie i saw'd.
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Well yeah, everything is established from the start. There's no real setup. Suddenly we're heading to Pandora, but some of the beast movies of all time have no real setup and established universes. The original Star Wars for example. You're just thrown into this world, with no real explanation. Cameron was going for that.
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Dec 20, 2009 3:35:38 AM CST
The thing about Earth is that they brought that shit up WAYYY
by series7
Too late. For the first 1/2 of the movie you think Earth is fine and they are just some corporation harvesting shit to make high priced Hybrid Cars dumb people think are better for the environment sort of thing. It isn't till later we find out that Earth is fucked.
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She believed in God, and was the most religious person I ever knew--and then...one bad thing too many went wrong in her life, and she openly rebuked God, and she rebuked me at the same time. I am not religious as I said before, however, I am spiritual. She rejected all of that, largely out of the blue when she had an emotional breakdown, and she told me that evil people always win in life, and that they always get whatever they want and don't ever suffer any consequences, or pay for their acts of evil. I lost her, but almost instantly, to my shock, she appeared to have gotten everything she wanted, almost over night, as if she sold herself to the devil? I am not joking about this--it was very spooky? I only wanted to save her, and be her hero, to prove that those kinds of people do exist, and that some people keep their word. She never apologized for leaving, nor did she apologize for the other man that I found-out about, and her marriage to him that I learned about two months later. You are right, cruel people, and acts of cruelty that they perpetrate, do win out in this world, but this is the devil's world, our mission is to get to the next world, Heaven, as best we can, carrying as much integrity as we can, and stay true to the idea that our acts of kindness and peace, breed acts of kindness and peace...in others. After my girl threw me under the bus, and drove over me several times for good measure, I was lost. When I was at the height of sadness and I could only think about how easy it would be to jump off a bridge, so I'd know some calm (not that I ever really considered it, but the thought kept returning)--I met a girl on the net, a child, who was threatening suicide, and I talked her out of it, it took a few times to stick, but it did. I said to God...to please give her a miracle, and make her happy again. I asked for her boyfriend to come back into her life, him being the reason for her sadness. 3 days later, when she was in a record store, there, she literally ran into her boyfriend as he turned her way, and they smashed into each other. He was at a listening station...listening to James Blunt's song "You're Beautiful". He changed the words for her and told her that he still loves her. It is not lost on me that, that song referenced an Angel. Instantly I knew, that was God telling me that...although I may have lost someone that I was trying to help, I saved another in her place!!! I still miss my girlfriend. I had to read on the net that she is happy, and I hope that is true--but I also hope she got there by looking to the light, and not selling herself, or her soul, out.
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Besides the corner of the screen during the video logs?
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Eveything on stage was in 3D layers. It was freaking me out. I was blown away by it!, to the point that I liked a Miley Cyrus movie. Sad! I envy you guys who had there first 3D experience be Avatar.
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...but we've already seen Blade Runner. Why the hell do i want to see it in Avatar? Earth, in this movie, is so inconsequential. Sully's line about his planet not having 'green' because his people destroyed it, is more powerful than a glimpse of it. That shit is left to our imaginations. It's almost like a gutpunch, when he say's that, because you know things are fucked up back home (they always are in these movies) but you didn't know how bad. We've already seen the blade runner-esque metropolitan future...again....it would've been a waste of time and money on camerons part. It would've served NO purpose. It had nothing to do with patience, what you're suggesting has been done in other movies. Cameron didn't want to show us Earth's future, he wanted to show us Pandora. Don't give me this ADD bullshit. Far from it. It was unnecessary and the King chose well...
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Is that he's KIND OF COCKY. Seriously. If there is a god like they say in dem der Larry the Cable Guy Lovin Bibles....you think his fat ass would come down once and a while and shout a holler. Because I mean fuck he's god he can do whatever he wants, and if he is real, he is kind of a dick asking us all to believe and him even if he's too lazy to get up from time to time and have a press conference or something. I mean seriously? If you were god of a planet and MAYBE you didn't speak the same language even you think you would come down and be like....ummm yo yo yo yo...I'm god? What's poppin?
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The movie is a 3D hologram projected entirely on a theater stage. We feel like we're watching the actors perform the movie, right there in front of that. Make that Cameron. See you in 15 years.
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WTF is wrong with me tonight? Ahhh!
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...when you experience and lushness of Pandora, a slight mirror to our planet; then you find out that that very beauty of the wild is lost on OUR planet. It took me by surprise. It was used dramatically--a simple line; more potent and powerful than if they would've showed it in the beginning. And you guys say Cameron can't write--bull. shit.
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Is that he wants you to kneel all the time.
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Dec 20, 2009 3:54:25 AM CST
Wasn't it weird when Navi Avatar's were playing Basketball?
by orionsangels
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alien sex scene ever.
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Dec 20, 2009 3:59:45 AM CST
Orionsangels, BUT WITH STAR WARS, LUCAS DOES TAKE HIS TIME.....
by tehcreepythinman
The opening of Star Wars was to establish the Empire, the Rebellion and the MacGuffin that is the stolen Death Star plans. But then the story slows down to show Luke’s dissatisfaction with his station in life. Lucas didn’t rush that. He took the time to make us feel his plight. That’s why we identify with the character and we also feel the rush that he experiences when whisked away on his adventure. I didn’t get that feeling with Jake. Within ten minutes he’s running around Pandora and all we’ve seen of the guy is that he’s crippled and his brothers dead nor have I been made to really sympathize with him. Yeah, he’s crippled and I’m supposed to feel sorry for a guy that gets to travel to another world? His character is our eyes and we should be feeling an overwhelming sense of exhilaration as he revels in his new body and the incredible splendor of Pandora. Cameron failed because I didn’t feel just how bad Jake’s life was beforehand. It was just “legs, GONE, Brother, DEAD, hey, ADVENTURE!!!”. Think about it like this, how would you feel if Star Wars started in the Millennium Falcon, after they escaped from Tatooine, and we got some half assed flashbacks and voice over from Luke about his boring ass life, the death of his Aunt and Uncle and everything that had happened within 5 minutes.
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— as I'm sure a lot of us have. I didn't realize until I read what you wrote how relatively fresh my deal sill is …I need more work on self…
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expensive sex scene ever.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:02:39 AM CST
Media Messiah, HER SOUL WAS CHEAP, I SHOULD KNOW, I BOUGHT IT!!!
by tehcreepythinman
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Dec 20, 2009 4:04:12 AM CST
"Why the hell do i want to see it in Avatar? Earth, in this movi
by son of the suns
Is it? It's the reason they're there. Actually, I'm not sure why they're there. It's very unclear. Apparently Earth is a dead grey planet. So what would be more useful, 'unobtanium' which we have no clue what it does, or a planet full of lush lifeforms and greenery?
A lot of Avatar is wafer thin. Sigourney's character setup of one line 'Where's my Cig'. Someone this rude is the person we send to negotiate and teach the Na'vi?
What about the dead brother? Our main protagonist sees the creature meant for his dead brother and doesn't wince? No emotion. Then is forgotten about in seconds.
If you liked this film, fine. I have no problem with that. I like a lot of films that I would consider bad films (TPM for example). But don't claim this is great or a masterpiece. It's really not. -
I absolutely did feel "…an overwhelming sense of exhilaration as he revels in his new body and the incredible splendor of Pandora…". I COMPLETELY felt that. But I did feel some identification lacking BEFORE Jake is linked with his avatar.
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-when you started talking about Iraq.
There will come a time when you fat ignorant fucks will realize just what the fuck is going on over there. And it isn't a bunch of self-centered corporate leaders controlling mindless mercs.
You can be against the war, but be against the war for something substantive. Like, the use of our men and women in uniform. Or the cost. Or the fact that it is a lost cause. But if I have to hear ONE MORE TIME that this was a war over oil waged by the Oil Barons using Blackwater agents, I will flip. -
...and i'm not pretending to. You dont', well that's fine, but I do. So what is Weaver's character is kinda bitchy; it's called character. everybody's upset because how moody she is; but if you consider her frustration with how relations our going on with the native's; the dumb grunts she has to deal with---her character makes perfect sense. Again, it all depends on your mindset. To me, it was totally plausible to believe all this, and I was never, not once, spoonfed this information. As an audience member, I KNOW, she's frustrated that she has to deal with Sully because she believes him to be just another dumb jarhead. We know it wasn't her idea to have him there, it was the higher ups. She's there for scientific reasons---to explore and remain friendly with the natives, obvioiusly the company she works for could care less. She's a woman who's dealing with a group of alpha males, so she, in return, has to be a front on. Again, it depends on how you want to see it. YOu can say "well alright, but she sucked anyway!" well, whatever. You didn't like her character, but she WAS a character. She was given enough lines to demonstrate the kind of person she is.
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...im at work and just typing this shit out as fast as i can. sorry
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...so yeah! That's the type of person that was sent to deal with the Nav'i. She was tough as nails. You guys are really just being ridiculous now...Didn't like the movie? Alright, cool. To each his own. I fucking loved it and everybody in the theatre did too. Its just the things that are being brought up are a matter of creative choices. You guys nitpick when the story appears cliche, but at the same time, complain when it isn't.
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Earth is apparently a dead rock, although we don’t actually see this, and our only goal is to harvest materials from other planets to bring them back to Earth?!? Did it never occur to the people on Pandora to establish a long term colony on the planet? How about the rest of the galaxy? Furthermore, how many decades have they been there and they STILL haven’t managed to find a way through, say, gene therapy to allow themselves to breath the air? Have there been no human children born on Pandora given the amount of time they’ve been there? Wouldn’t those children have a natural immunity to the environment? Couldn’t humans, exposed to small quantities of Pandora’s atmosphere eventually build up a resistance to it?
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I will be seeing this as often as possible. Any problems in it that anyone is mentioning are fucking whogivesashit. The movie is such a great experience. Sorry to one of you negative nancies who saw it but would let themselves experience it. Man some of you are pathetic. This movie is a wonderful dream, like Jake, I didn't want to wake up from.
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Sorry to some of you negative nancies who saw it but wouldn't let themselves experience it.
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God did come down to earth two thousand years ago. His name was, and still is -- Jesus.
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...totally agree with you about the movie being great. Not just good---but great! People are just LOOKING for things in the movie to tear down and question. More so than in any other movie ive seen in a while. You try and give a justifiable answer to a particular qualm and all you get is "yeah, well, what about..." and then what's given is very inconsequential to the movie as a whole. Again, im not trying to push this movie on anybody; i just don't buy into what's being discussed.
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...to make it like you can't enjoy because you think Star Trek is better, or District 9. I'm planning on owning all three: they're all different and enjoyable for different reasons. District 9 was highly imaginative and orignal, as is Avatar. Star Trek had great characters and moments; although, it's had time to refine itself, so I really don't see the need to compare one with the other.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:37:09 AM CST
Can you imagine if the internet was around when Star Wars was re
by miyamoto_musashi
"the fight scene with the old guy and the guy in the funny black suit was lame" , "the only girl is called Leia?", "how come those guys in the white suits are terrible shots" etc
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According to Genesis 7, 14 total.
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I was surprised because I was very good to her, loyal, and never called her out of her name, not once, and I was always deeply forgiving. I was even kind when we argued, mostly about her being selfish and lying. She is of the "Me Generation" and I was just surprised that a woman could act against what we are often told is the nature of women, which is selflessness. So much for lore? Yes, I was kind...and giving, but her thanks to me was to walk away largely in silence. It was all very much like that Death Cab for Cutie song "Cath". She was in so much pain that she ran away with the first man who had enough money, it would appear, to rescue her? My good deeds and kindness didn't matter at that point, she just wanted an easier life, and to hell with me, and or, my loyalty to her. Funny thing is, when I first heard that song, I thought of her, and I knew that something like this would happened, and just a handful of months later, it did, including the marriage. She always denied there was someone else, but I could feel it. She never explained herself fully, I had to piece it all together for myself from the things that she said prior, and the little that she said afterward. That was the cruel part of it all, I mean, I would have liked to remain her friend, but I think she assumed, and quite falsely, that I would have tried to mess things up for her new relationship.
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In case you're wondering.. 7 males and 7 females.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:39:55 AM CST
sorry Code was a quiz night question, most got it wrong
by miyamoto_musashi
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...the sequel to Avatar; its version of T2: Judgemnt day. Yeah. I just got goosebumps too. ;) They can make all the Twlight sequels they want. Why not? Nobody's forcing me to watch them, as long I kept getting movie's like this. Now all we gotta do is support them when they come out.
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I'm sorry that I went through that too. She helped me to grow-up a lot when she was there in my life, but so much of my growth was crushed when she did what she did. I hope you fair better than me and find someone special who truly deserves you.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:46:05 AM CST
Media Messiah got 2 good friends in a similar situation
by miyamoto_musashi
Both divorced and both now found better women, one just got engaged. One of them said to me a few years ago after he got divorced, you have to have balance, can't just be one person in the relationship always giving.
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I liked it but I don't think the 3D added much and the animation - although superb - was still no where near photo realistic. Agree with Harry though, Jake's legs were very well done. Anyone know if they were CG or physical?
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...when Empire Strikes back was out. "There's no way Darth Vader is Lukes dad! NO WAY!" "Why'd they have to get all dark and gritty?" "What's up with Calrissian's cape?" lol
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"Handwavium"... the element which when combined with C738H1166N812O203S2Fe make up Midichlorians.
These aren't the smurfs you're looking for. -
Dec 20, 2009 5:13:14 AM CST
Am i the only one who thought the story and characters SUCKED
by dioxholsterreturns
its a Disney cartoon in 3D
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Doctor Dolittle 2
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The effects were amazing, the final battle was great but...it just didn't have that extra something. Visually it was great but it the story didn't hook me like it should have. It will do well at the boxoffice but it's not going to have a lot of repeat business. PS: I've had it with the 3D craze, let's just get back to good stories and characters and leave the 3D stuff behind.
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I have no problem with Sigourney being rude. My problem is that her character setup was so cliche. Let's just make it REALLY clear in the first line that 'she's really rude', in case anyone thought otherwise. Then she becomes a mother character after about 30 mins. And why the f'ck does her avatar where a shirt? Way to scientifically blend in. Good work.
Why does nature suddenly decide at the end to turn up and help? Not when the forest is being destroyed, or the big tree blown up. Nope. And why did they even get 'the brother in'. Didn't some one say the Avatar matured while they were asleep? So when they set off it was tiny? Shouldn't at that point they have made one for a decent scientist instead? Rather than continue to grow one for a marine? What does Unobtanium do? Why is it important? Don't know so I can't care. Why if the deposit was only the largest for 200clicks didn't they say, you know what, we'll just go 201 clicks to the actual largest and save some bother? Who didn't see riding the big dragon coming? Who didn't see the whole storyline in the trailer? I mean wtf. Keep something secret for years then... here's the whole story in 2 mins. And as for the whole 'changing body', that's an amazingly convenient plot point. Not brought up until just when they need it. If the big end rumble happened when they home tree was blown up I'd have given this film a pass. But the last 40-50 mins were just pointless.
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The story was the worst part of the whole thing by a mile. I can live with derivative stories if they are packaged in an original way but this film didn't care for subtlety at all. It was a by the numbers plod along a well worn path. The ease with which Jake coped with the Red Dragon plot point was nauseating and made me hate this film for a few seconds. Still a great experience though.
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but because of the way it was presented. i expected fairies to pop up and give you a wish.
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In aliens either, but the explanations and will to stay the hell away were enough to explain that the planet was generally fucked.
Sully may have not had his entire back story spelled out, but there were shots that explained more than just his brother was dead. When they leave the transport and he's the last one out, noone has any concern that he isnt a fully capable marine, they shout him down when he's near run over etc etc. Theres enough there in the way he's treated to show that he's isolated and has little use to anyone other than his genetics are compatable.
People seriously want to be spoonfed everything these days. They still find it easy enough to give other movies a pass, i loved star trek, but you gotta admit, the villain was as 2D as they get.
Every superhero movie (bar maybe TDK) follows the same mould and the same exact order but they get a pass.
One movie i detested last year (ok thats maybe a little strong) was Hellboy 2 for having one of the most stupid and easily resolved plots in a long time, all it required was the princess kills herself at the start and the heroes win, but we have to wait the entire movie and she does it anyway. Yet it didnt get any flak for that. -
The dialogue is realistic. Not dumb. Try reading the screenplay of Titanic and focus NOT on the dialogue but on the lines that describe the scenes which Cameron wants to portray. He writes like a novelist.
If Jake Sully, an ex-marine with no Ph.D. degree, would speak like Shakespeare or have the philosophical musings of Morpheus of the Matrix trilogy, we would absolutely be taken out of the reality that Jim Cameron wants to create. And we travel through Pandora through Jake%u2019s eyes--not through the mind of Dr. Augustine, nor through the eyes of the native people, whom he seeks to understand.
The movie opens with a dream sequence and with a single eye of Jake Sully waking up. The movie ends with his two eyes opening. These minor details, among a multitude others, are what many critics who dislike Avatar are missing. The movie is rich in symbolism that to brand it as a Dances With Wolves or a Battle for Terra or a Dune rip-off would be to deny its power as a story-telling medium.
There is not a single story out there which we could call truly original. Star Wars Episode IV was inspired by The Hidden Fortress. When Star Wars came out, no one was complaining that it was a rip-off of the Kurosawa film. Even the Bible story of Noah is not original. Many cultures in the past had their own flood myth, and it is difficult to trace whether they were inspired by the Bible story or if the latter took inspiration from the former.
James Cameron is challenging us to see. We need to look deeper. The line "I see you," may sound too trite for most, but it is this line which James Cameron wants us to figuratively interpret. What seems to be relatively common can turn out to be something much more. We just need look beyond and transcend that which we see or hear. -
theres so much to criticize in this shitty movie
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well i guess it's a step up from his ghost town producing gig :-)
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" i loved star trek, but you gotta admit, the villain was as 2D as they get."
That may be the case. But if so, what does it make the villain in this? 1D? What was his motivation other than he was 'bad'. Really. Can anyone tell me? Did he have shares in the company? Did he need unobtanium because it would in some way save Earth? Did he see the Na'Vi as evil because of something they'd done? Who knows? Because we've just got to take it that this guy is bad. I'd love to have someone describe his character to me without using the words bad or evil. -
because then you might feel sorry for the humans that desperately need it instead. IMP the movie should have showed arguments from both sides instead of just bluntly going for the Humans = evil, Na'vi =Good routine. if he the humans werent presented as evil, we would scold them for not being humane to the Na'Vi...so why did JC have to symbolize the tree and show humans as obvious villains. the movie couldve been thought-provokaing instead it ended up being a cartoon. i was right at first when i said STARGATE and the shows, are much better in story and characters than this ever was.
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maybe because it's really only something that occurred to ME during the final, climactic fight scene...
the "firewire" as you call it - what my friends and I called "Forest USB" - was a really subtle way for Cameron to play on the title and THEME of this movie...
Just as Jake SUlly controls an AVATAR through some fancy Terrestrial technology, the Na'Vi control other animals - AVATARS - with their "firewire" Pandora tech...
and of course, you then get Jake, controlling an Avatar, controlling ANOTHER Avatar... but the point is, at that climax you had Quattrich controlling his MECHANICAL Avatar and Neytiri controlling her own Avatar - and it made quite a poignant moment in the film, for me at least! -
I only saw Avatar in 3D for the novelty of it. I sure as fuck don’t want to see every movie in that format. It gave me a headache and I had to sit ramrod straight through the whole thing just to see the 3D. Do you think anyone is desperate to see the next Woody Allen movie in 3D? This format has been a pipedream of technologically obsessed Director’s like Cameron and Zemekis who have forgotten that all the bells and whistles of CGI and 3D don’t replace the art of a well told story. This is the reason that Avatar and A Christmas Carol are effects bloated, badly written shit made for the broadest audience possible. The only reason that studio executives are going along with it is because their fucking idiots who have been conned into thinking that 3D will get people back into the cinema and away from the internet and videogames. They also LOVE the idea of forcing people to pay a premium to see whatever garbage their peddling. If they were going to try to put out movies like The Wrestler or Milk in a 3D theatre then I think it would be interesting to see how audiences would react. But the fact is that the studios have no interest in making those movies and the only ones they’d make in 3D would be 150 to 300 million dollar trash like Terminator 4 and Transformers 2. The studio’s always make the same stupid decisions, rather then just making better movies, and 3D is just another scheme to lure people into seeing the endless amount of shit they make.
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it was great for 3/4 of the film then things happened that seemed out of character/didn't make sense to me. I'de give it a 3 out of 5. I wouldn't watch it again, but glad its out of my system...I do find it curious that Harry says this part of the movie is like this/reminds me of this that and the other referencing a half dozen things this feels like/reminds him of and then says its unlike anything you've ever seen...whaaaaat?...sounds like its like a lot of things... I personally think its like a lot of things I've read and seen before.... the idea of talking with tree/ communication with the dna in plants in order to access some sort of cosmic/genetic record thats been there for generations is found in work by timothy leary/alan moore referenced in in promethea and and amazing book called the cosmic serpent that that talks about shamanism in the amazon..etc... all done better than cameron did it I think. Also glowy forest vs nature was done in princess mononoke... again done better than cameron... anyway I'm sure there's other references.
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yeah right, hahaha characters sucked.
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how does the fire stay alight Doesn't fire need ogygen to stay alight? That's high school science!.. how does fire stay alight on pandora without ogygen? It shoudn't.
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Dec 20, 2009 6:38:07 AM CST
YOU KNOW WHY THIS MOVIE IS PAINTED IN THE BROADEST STROKES.....
by tehcreepythinman
It's because when you spend 300 MILLION PLUS FUCKING DOLLARS you have to make sure that it appeals to the broadest audience possible. I don’t see how anyone in their right mind can see that as a good thing? You know, we all rag on Michael Bay, Brett Ratner and McG for making watered down shit aimed at the lowest common denominator but is Avatar really all that much different apart from Cameron obviously being a more skilled Director? Now, he definitely has more brains then all three of those hack COMBINED but with a blank check, what exactly did he decide to make? Did he use the virtually unlimited resources at his disposal to craft a movie with about something new, fresh and exciting that audiences haven’t seen before? No. He fucking remade Dances with Wolves because he was more interested in having a weak ass story to hang all his technological shit onto rather then applying it to maybe some NEW CONCEPTS AND IDEAS. The more I think about this movie the more I fucking dislike it. Cameron’s excuse for not making a movie in 12 fucking years was that he was waiting for technology to catch up to his “imagination”. 12 years and he couldn’t have made some good movies with the tools that the rest of Hollywood’s lowly mortals have to slave away with?!? FUCK HIM! You know why this fucking egomaniac waited soo long? It was because he was determined to see how much money he could fucking spend because if you think that Avatar cost “only” 230 million then you are a fucking sucker. The latest Harry Potter movie cost about 250 million for fuck sakes. Final word on this movie and then I am FUCKING DONE with this thread. I just finished watching Mario Bava’s Planet of the Vampires (which I’ve seen many times before ) and despite being made in 1965, with primitive FX and shot on a few small soundstages, I have to say that I enjoyed it much more then Avatar’s 300 million plus CGI overloaded remakes of Dances with Wolves. Fuck Avatar.
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admit it guys you have lost this war.fuck off now.
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Isn't it the make up of the air, i.e. its toxic,not lack of oxygen?
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But sadly I saw it on a TV screen rather than a movie screen as it still hasn't arrived in Hong Kong.
For me its top 3 of the year after Avatar and District 9. -
What's wrong with a simple story beautifully told? It's the simple stuff that survives the longest- from Icelandic poems, to fairytales, to most of the best movies ever made. Did you really want this to be a David Mamet movie, in which the sharp dialogue and constant plot twists disguise a totally hollow centre? Robert Altman once railed against his own chosen medium for not being cinematic enough, and relying too heavily on other mediums; well, for better or worse, with Avatar you have a MOVIE, bitches!
I loved Avatar and the story it used as a launchpad for its crazy cinematics. It's a formula that applies to any damn art form you could name: if you make the bones of the thing you're making really simple and spartan, like say a great two-note bass riff, you can overlay onto that all manner of crazy shit and it'll take off into the stratosphere. Simplicity does not equal stupidity.
And who gives a shit about Dances with fucking Wolves? It's a pretty weak movie with a leading man incapable of emoting in front of the camera. Consider that whole thing a genre if you have to: the AWOL/Gone Native movie. It has its basic tropes, the same way vampire movies do, highschool movies do and buddy movies do, but just because a movie follows the same beats doesn't mean it can't be great in its own right. -
but the way its told is.
There's no attempt at subtlety or really getting into some of the underlying emotions of characters. You can at least dress up the usual story lines and progression with little bits of cleverness or hidden depths in the characters that give people, who want to, more to think about.
None of that here though, really basic pared down idiotic story telling.
Just so I can set some kind of marker to show I'm not some nerd with an ill-formed hatred of this film. I liked it...I'd see it again---I had no problem with the alien sex ( grown up children)...I thought the huge knife in the hands of a robot walker was brilliant and showed folk making this film had a sense of humour. The flying sequences were dazzling.
The way the story was told was an insult. The Red Dragon piece and then the Na'vi bowing down before some twattish condescending "Monkey Boy" who came up with a cheap trick to be the biggest bad ass ever was revolting. Basically we had been asked to respect this culture and then they all turn into grovelling idiots looking for guidance from our much more sophisticated hero. Becasue in the end , no matter how much you dress it up, we, humans are better than them. We can be them better than they can ( Red Dragon) and only we can commune with their Earth Goddess and win the battle. Yay Humanity !!!
Rawk!!!! -
Toxicity != lack of oxygen.
I hope all this flak being aimed at cameron is aimed at jackson in upcoming years, we have to be consistent afterall. I mean he has the likes of the Hobbit (based on a pre existing work), Dambusters remake, Temeraire and there was something about him remaking Gallipoli.
As for the villains in Avatar being 1D, sure theyre simple villains, but their motivation is very clear. Quaritch is a hardened soldier, it's his profession and he damn well enjoys it. He also has some anger toward the natives, they scarred him in a way no other opponent had. That coupled with the fact he's itching for a fight (he has little regard for the scientists and his first thought of sully is to get him supplying intel). He wasn't nescessarily evil, he just wanted to see shit blow up and get some payback for himself and those lost under his command.
Selfridge is a simple company man, he's far removed from whats happening on the ground. He has a job to do no matter the cost, he would like a diplomatic solution but he's there to make sure they meet their targets and is willing to give the go ahead for more drastic measures. Again, not nescessarily evil or bad, just has no moral compass and has a set of priorities that puts no value on the native population. -
Dec 20, 2009 7:05:19 AM CST
Am I the only one who thought that Giovanni Ribisi's
by seppukudkurosawa
character reminded him of Paul Reiser's character in Aliens?
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Get some fucking talent before you mouth off. this film was a spectacular masterpiece. you got issues
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that the haters would be there opening day.
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It had a compelling story!!!! fucken dicks
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the marines and the Corporation seem very much like Aliens.
I work with people that are exactly alike both Ribisi and Reiser's characters. Sad people -
than Bay's tiny pinner.Its a matter of size.
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I was there an AVATAR day and wasn't impressed. Hopefully the film will work better as a whole. I am braving the snow and heading to the NYC IMAX in Lincoln center!
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I was there an AVATAR day and wasn't impressed. Hopefully the film will work better as a whole. I am braving the snow and heading to the NYC IMAX in Lincoln center!
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Generally, i liked it. I'm going to say that i'm thankful i went to the mvoie with my cautious optmiist attitude. It served me well. Because if i had gone to it expected the "eye-fucking" masterpiece many hoped, i would feel disapointed. On the other hand, had i walked in wantin to hate it, i would walk out of it thinking it was much better then i expected. As such, i sit in the same place of the bus many do now, in the mixed reaction group.But i think i do have a bit of some different ideas to my mixed opinion of AVATAR.My major complaina bout the movie will be a strange one to mnay, but here it is: i just think that Pandora is not alien enough. There's just too much Earth-like stuff in it. I can understand that all creatures in there are based on marine or exotic creature on Earth. I like that concept. I just wished they had gone futher. Like, say, having octopuses walking around the trees jumping from branch to branch. Basically, all creatures i see in the movie are just Earth creeatures with some more grills and legs added on.And this same complain goes for the Na'vi: they are too human. Same human reactions, same human emotions, they laugh, they cry, they mourn.... it's too human, not enough alien.Like many, i wish i had seen at least one short scene on Earth. Like in Aliens, when we see a bit of Ripley's life in just that her apartment scene. It's short, but it's's enoguh to tell us everything she's going for. The story is stillw ell told withoit it, but i think it might had given us a better connection to Sully's life, and why he jumped at a chance to go to Pandora, other then "just" his disability.I wish that Sully didn't need to had been a marine. This "dumb but strong idiot who'sa natural to some stuff and learns a new skilla dn excelts even over the natives and saves the day" story type is just a it too over-played for me. I wish that Sully would had been even cmore constrasted to his Avatar, in that Sully would be some college nerd kid, so to make even a bigger difference his pathetic human shell and magnificent his Avatar body.The things i liked is, of course, the excelency of the visuials, and how well the 3D is used.I liked the story, on the whole. Yes, it's simple. But so is the stories of many SF movies from the 70s i live. Like THX-1138, SILENCE RUNNING, ROLLERBALL and ALIEN. And STAR WARS, of course. All those movies have pretty simple stories. but they are all told in a remakrably sophisticated and intelligent way. Simple stories but with a very rich enviroment to be played. In many ways, AVATAR is a 70s SF movie told today. Small wonder, since the 70s where the formative years of James Cameron.Unlike many, i think i prefered the human scenes to the Na'vi scenes. I can't exactly say why, but seems that, contrary to many, i rekon the heart of the movie are in some of those scenes, and none with the na'vi princess and whatever.One interesting thing about the movie's major villain, the coronel, is that he's the only human character in the whole movie which personalises Pandora. Everybody else talks about the planet, the forest, the creatures, the minerals. But the coronel is the only one which calls it all Pandora, as if it's one single entity. It's clear he has a personal beef with the whole planet. He is, in fact, the Ahab character of the movie. And when he learns from sigourney Weaver's character that indeed the whole planet is interconnected, then it's when he goes to town and plays revenge on what it did to him. The character is completly on a vendetta. I think it's a good idea. For the coronel, all this stuff is personal.Again, i want to thank Cameron for making the scientists intogood guys. A lesser filmmaker would turn the scientists as corrupt and evil as the rest of the corporate stooges. For Cameron, it's not science which is evil. Quite the contrary, all the scientist characters are the ones veeing for a diplomatic solution, and they are the humasn who understand better what's going on with the place and the errors of the approach the corporation does. In the end, it's they who still are allowed to stay on the planet, the only humans which the Na'Vi accept as guests. The evildoears are those who truen dscience into greedy commerce (the corporate stooges), and the people who sell themselves without pangs of conscience (the mercenaries). Frankly, and give the way the world is today, this is the part of the movie i have the least problem accepting.There's so much more i could be talking about the movie. Too much for just one post. But in the end, i like dit. It's not one of Cameron's best, i'm afraid. It's not his worst. Maybe in the future the movie will be better received. Or dismissed. And it's not my favority SF movie of this year either. I liked and generally was more in awe of MOON and DISTRICT 9, to tell you the truth.
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Isn't there a creche area where the "most excellent film ever"/ "worst film ever" dicktards like you can rant at each other and leave the grown ups to discuss.
Cheers Pal -
but i think that if JC tried to make it too alien,then the audience would have a problem to get attached to the scenery and to the alien characters.How do you think the audience would react in the love scene,where instead of the Navi,we would have the prawns from D9?
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" PS: I've had it with the 3D craze, let's just get back to good stories and characters and leave the 3D stuff behind."
I've had it with the moving picture crze. Let's just get back to good stories and characters on the stage...
I've ha d it with the talking picture craze.., etc. -
For the Velocihorses comment. I KNEW I couldn't be the only one to notice that.
Seriously, it is the EXACT same sound. It's gotta be a homage from Cameron to Spielberg, or it will be just another instance of Avatar's streak of plagiarism. -
I find the whole notion of criticizing Avatar because its plot is a familiar one beside the point. There are only 36 strands from which to chose, if theory is to be believed and not Charlie Kaufman. As my name would suggest, Lawrence of Arabia is my favorite 'going native" film, with Apocalypse Now and Little Big Man close behind (and one could argue The Godfather falls into this category as well). I think in Avatar's adaptation of the archetype, we can read Cameron's personal beef quite unequivocally: he is a Canadian trying to seduce US audiences. He feels close to them but he will always be different and blue (because it's fucking freezing in Canada). The Hammerheads are clearly from Quebec, hence their reluctant bullishness. The red dragon is nothing but a blatant metaphor for the red maple leaf Cameron hopes will conquer the world, or at least the continent... I know, you probably missed it but Pandora is Canada and unobtainium is clearly bituminous oil, which is ravaging primary forests in Canada so it can be exploited... As for all that crazy fauna? It's a veiled indictment of GMOs. There, I hope that gives you something to think aboot: a very politicized, intimate transposition of an archetype to subliminally kick the Canadian PM out of office. As such, it's as geopolitical/ machiavellic as it gets. To ponder Pandora as such, or simply stop reading/writing so much crap and let this visceral magic unfold, again and again... Hmmm... We need to go back Kate!
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How they use glass that can be broken by arrows? "Oh, the air in this planet can kill us! Hey, I got an idea! Let's use breakable glass to build the windows of all our mechs and helicopters. So that natives has a chance against us! Ahn, good?".
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One of the things i didn«'t put in my post above and which i do want to chat about is about the love scene. In my mind, the love story about Sully and the Na'Vi princess is unnecessary. I wish it had not been in the story. In the end, it doesnt' serve the story much. You could had traded it with the story of a camradery between an human and an alien, like in ENEMY MINE, and the end result would be the same.And again, the love story goes back to my major peeve about the movie: the aliens being too human. Why would the aliens even have the notion of romantic love? Consdierign how well connected, LITERALLY, to every single organism on Pandora, it stretches believability that they would even concieve in their culture the notion of individual love. They could feel love, but it would be for the collective, the whole of the people, the whole of the living creatures, the whole of the planet. And not pinpointed to this or that. This iswhy the scenes of the love between Sully and the Na'vi princess or when she cries her guts out about his father's death, they really sit not to well with me. I just saw humans with different body paintings, not aliens, you know what i mean?
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Good point!
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The breakable glasses from the helis is not actually the major problem. I guess the corporation just imported the helis with little modifications. What would make sense would be the heli pilots to do like the jet-fighter pilots and wear oxygen masks while flying.
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This is James Cameron, ya know- Mr. TITANIC. I remember going into TITANIC, not knowing dick about it other than "a boat's not gonna make it" and walking out going "what the fuck? this is a chick flick?"
Now, AVATAR is not a chick flick, and the love story isn't awful- it's just unnecessary as you say. I said above, and I'll repeat the same here- if AVATAR was a movie from Neytiri's perspective and how she was able to ally herself with sympathetic humans to face down an invasion of superior might, I would have liked this movie a lot. The elements were there for something great- but it felt so conventional as to deprive it of any emotional energy. -
The movie has a history with the complexity of an eighties cartoon. I liked but... expected more. MUCH MORE. ps.Michelle Rodriguez was HOT, HOT, HOT!
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was the fucking score by fucking James Horner. I already suspected it would be godawul, but to have it actually proved was just too painful.You know what would had made wonders for AVATAR? Have the movie without any single music to it. A bit like what the coen Brothers almost did to NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN. Have a whole movie without score. Believe me, AVATAR would gasin a lot with that. and trade all that thing that scores do for movies and do it with sound effects and sound design. With all this idea of this gigantic forests, Cameron could had gone to town with ther sound design. Instead, we get this horrible fuckigns core, which is, in truth, the most cliched bulslhit that the movie has. Not the story, not the characters, not the dialogues, it's the fucking score. I can't even count how many times i got distracted oput of the movie because of that Adiemus bullshit that Horner pulled out of his ass and put in the movie. In the words of Christian Bale, it was FUCKING DISTRACTING. And not in a good way.That fucking score by James Horner... what the fuck was James Cameron thinking?
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it just popped into my head as I was watching it... I know maybe I was over analysing it...
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It was intrusive- basically crap. It was definitely distracting from the stuff onscreen too.
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thought it was fine
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"This is not Kansas. This is Pandora". Pfui.
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I go with the prawns' design anyday- no large fucking window to get killed through either.
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Dec 20, 2009 8:44:19 AM CST
Yackbacker...you said you'd have liked the story told from Neter
by chakraborty
...perspective...but that wouldn't have worked. The whole concept of having an Avatar is so foreign...and it's complicated for the average viewer who hasn't studied this movie for hundreds of hours like the average AICN'er...so Jake Sully had to be the main character to take the audience on this journey. There's no question about that. Anything else would have been disastrous.
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You raised an interesting point, one which i comented with my friends when we walked out of the theater. And that this is another one of this stories where a white guy goes native and becames their savior. Only unlike PATHFINDER, Cameron was able to tell it well. but it's getting tired now. Sure, unlike the retard who made PATHFINDER, Cameron actually knows his reference sourses, so he's not so much plying cliche as he is making a direct hommage to the sourses, and the movie does show that, despiste all else.But it's getting tired. If there had to be a love story, then i wish it had been played between the two na'vis which had been promised to each other, between the princess and the chief-to-be. If Sully had to had a native woman of his own, why not then one of the other na'vi girls that the princess refered? why does it need that the hero of the story needs to have as his girl the female lead character? One of the treasons i'm liking Harry Potter stories is that it didn't went obvious and made Harry fall for Hermione and vice-versa. Would had it been too hard to do the same for AVATAR?Of course this is jsut my own personal preference, and as such, take it this for all it's worth, but if it were me, i would had never made the Sully guy gone completly native. In the end, he would still be human. Basically, i would pull a LORD JIM. In that movie and book, the hero, though he tries his best to save the native village that welvomed him, his actions, even his good actions, end up resulting in dammage and death, and he has to pay a price, either by death or by leaving his "second home".Of course, cameron was going for a more naive route for his AVATAR. In the end, this is a juvenile adventure story. Designed that way. The problem is that, though the story is told very well and in some parts in quite a sophisticated way, there's little for adults to really sink their tooth in. I'm not intending this as an harsh criticism as it might look. It's just that... maybe i'm getting too old.
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Dec 20, 2009 8:51:05 AM CST
But D9 mechs couldnt carry big guns/knives like the Avatar ones
by ominus
The D9 mechs reminded me a lot the mechs from F.E.A.R.
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The score is horrible beyond description.
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but it did its job.
Asimov your points are valid,but Avatar is a very expensive movie and JC did the logical thing to play it safe: a classic story where the good wins and the hero finds his love.
Besides JC in all his movies,he has shown that the core of his storis is the love story.A simple but beautifully told love story.
And Avatar from the start,from the first info,it was pretty clear that it was all about a classic story of love,in a fantasy world.It was never going to be something complex,some arthouse movie which will try to explore how the human affairs work.Cameron didnt create a photorealistic alien creature in order to dwell in the depths of the universal sexual nature and the complications which cause in the romantic relationships between interspecies.He could have just used real native americans or muslims or black people or whatever to make a more 'artistic' movie.
Avatar is pure entertainment with content and soul.Maybe not provocative enough for our brain cells,but it does make you ...feel. -
How much it is similar to Troy's soundtrack?
Which coincidently, was also Horner's work?
Avatar's OST is as derivative as its plot. -
"Hmm...everyone says the 3D is amazing but the story is awful. I'm going to be contrary and say I love it for the story and get page hits"
We're on to you Harry. -
If you like tech talk, you'll love this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aao0YSITuxc -
Dec 20, 2009 9:15:50 AM CST
Vesuvio...so you're saying that Horner ripped himself off?
by chakraborty
Sneaky bastard...stealing from his own creative mind. Damn him!
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...I'll give the haters that. Shame too, as there's a new king in town and he composes for the Warshowskis, Brad Bird and JJ Abrams. He finds great themes like there's an endless supply floating in his head. Avatar contains only one good cue (tragic bits), hardly a theme. But you have to appreciate Cameron's ill-advised but commendable fidelity to Horner. Actually, the only enduring theme of JC's filmography is Terminator's and it was composed by Brad Fiedel. At least Zimmer outdid himself when he composed Thin Red Line, can't say the same about The New World with James "subtle is not my middle name" Horner.
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I kept thinking, why is this music PUSHING me out of the story?
The New World was the same story with an infinitely better score. -
...if it had been around for 'Star Wars' or 'ET' or 'Aliens'. It would look exactly like these 'Avatar' boards.
Last I checked James Cameron has a few academy awards and they weren't just for directing. Avatar is written better than Titanic and yes, Avatar rightly deserves its Best Picture nominations.
Some posted about the cigarette, I thought that having the "tree hugging" scientist smoking a cigarette was saying something akin to having the corporated douche bag proclaim his love for his putter...we do indeed need to be cured of our insanity.
What is really brilliant about the writing in Avatar is that this movie evokes so many other varied movies and stories while at the same time being very original in its own right...that ain't easy to do and it's really difficult to do well. I've seen Avatar twice and plan a few more viewings. The visuals are stunning, I love the story and the heart of the film, the acting is good with standout performances by Zoe Saldana and Stephen Lang, the action sequences are all top-notch which is what I expect from Cameron. This is easily the culmination of everything Cameron has done and this is his best work to date. I doubt the Academy is going to bestow 'Titanic'-like awards on Avatar, but not since Star Wars has an original sci-fi universe been so fully realized on film. -
So nice to find out all the hype was completely justified. We are utterly and completely transported to Pandora. It was also odd to discover that it really does take about 10 minutes for your eyes to be rewired by your brain so the 3D lines up properly in your mind and become completely real. You sort of forget it's in 3D at all and you are just THERE. I've seen just about e every 3D film ever created and that has never happened before. Totally amazing! The story is great, the characters are great, the whole thing is fucking fantastic! It reminded me a LOT of Jurqassic Park in that as soon as you saw that T-Rex chase you just knew films would never be the same again. For those whining about the derivative story, Jurassic Park was Westworld, which was also written by Michael Crighton by the way. So givve it a rest and go get sucked into a FUCKING AMAZING world.
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"Actually, the only enduring theme of JC's filmography is Terminator's and it was composed by Brad Fiedel" Horner's score to Aliens is amazing.
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I wouldn't say it was 'horrible beyond description', because I'm not pregnantly retarded with desire for things to hate unreasoningly, but it wasn't special, for sure.
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Marlon Brando was obese beyond recognition.
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will finally realize it's shit when you watch it on dvd a few months from now.
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from not only himself, but other composers, is endless. This thread is a good primer: http://tinyurl.com/ydyy9pw
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oh I'm sorry, is this 'grown ups discussing'? cause it looks like a bunch of fucking cokcsuckers who are sprouting the most insane bullshit I've ever read oin these boards. There's no story - if had no story then how the fuck did it go for 3 hours in a point for point fashion unfolding from start to finish?It wasn't as good as star trek - well give me a fucking break, i LOVED star trek and i didn't once find myself saying once thinking about it while watching Avatar. i did however find myself wishing that the next trek is made with this 3D tech. i mean, imagine it for a second!i just read Asimov say the planet wasn't Alien enough. I'm gunna call bullshit on that right now! I see we're also getting the bullshit posts 'why didnt' they just nuke the tree from orbit? exactly where in this film did it ever show they had such capabilities to sugically strike from orbit??look, I'm past all this bullshit you guys carry on with here at Aint it cool. I'm watching films. terminator Salvation is something you can bash because it had nothing going for it. Star trek is hard to hate because the technical achievement of that film is staggering. Avatar is beyond these petty critisisms because you don't even know what it is you'r attacking. The 3D is mind blowing, and the execution of the technology is second to none. the return to form for James Cameron is evident to anyone who has ever loved and/or studied his prior work. This film is massive and it's being bashed on levels which make no sense. the scope of what I've just seen is to be praised, embraced, and fucking loved and cherished because this film IS A GAME CHANGER. I wish you faggots could see it. none of you are worthy of your self proclaimed film geek docterates
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The drop off will be HUUUUGE. Considering this was THE most hyped film of the decade and the amount of money Fox poured into it's sledgehammer marketing campaign, a 75m opening weekend is far from impressive (fatoring in that IMAX 3D tickets are also more expensive than regular tickets). Also consider ALL the Cameron cocksucker brigade turned out this weekend, and 80% of them won't go back again (even if they say they will, the lying pricks). Make no mistake, Avatar has already shot it's load. And this piece of crap needs to make about $700 JUST TO BREAK EVEN.It will taper off at around $400 worldwide. Comparisons with Star Treks opening weekend is grasping at thin air. ST did pretty fucking wonderful considering it wasn't playing on 3D screens and Insurrection damn near almost killed the franchise. Expect reports that Cameron has split from his wife within the next six months. He'll divorce Suzy Amis and go with a woman half his age to try and get his mojo back. Then he'll start work on his next turkey Battle Angle. A 14 yr old robot girl fighting other robots. Almost sounds as fucking lame as Avaturd. You were a little too hasty to turn down Terminator 3, weren't you Jimmy?
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/movies/20scott.html?_r=1&ref=arts
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Relax. Have a beverage.
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Are you kidding me? most people didnt know it existed until a week ago. The hype doesnt hold a candle to Sith, ROTK, Dark Knight, Harry Potter films, etc.
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the flying mountain....made of miracle substance "upsidasium" (I think Harry missed that one)
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And I reject it because A.O. Scott fucking cheated. He made a top 10 list and included 19 movies. No, that's not how it's done. Fucking guy!
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The prequels slit hype's throat and the MATRIX sequels ripped its nuts off and stuffed it down hype's throat. I guess NEW MOON was hyped, but that shit was like a cult having its annual convention. Normal, healthy folks don't get caught up in that sort of shit. So, I agree- there isn't much hype for AVATAR among the general public. People are worried about other things now, a movie about mancats isn't going to get them revved up.
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Consider this. 2012 has only made 155 million domestically. It's made 555 million is foreign box offfice!!! More than three times as much!!! Avatar is a better movie than 2012, and has such Universal themes it will translate to any country. Plus, I'm sure most of the world will enjoy seeing the US military get its ass handed to them.
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...was gripping, with a nice use of Katchakourian's Gayane as a wink to 2001. It was pompous but fit the gung-ho atmosphere like a glove. I actually remembered it after I'd posted. However, Avatar's score comes close to hurting the film. Close, but no cigar.
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To go back to the film's tech triumphs: I felt like the actors playing Na'vis were somehow wearing really awesome makeup (that didn't even smudge with sweat). And I have to say, Neytiri was close to giving me a boner and I have never had the least zoophiliac tendency (except for guppies, those fish are just too pretty). Thanks to jssscript for the awesome link. I think the mad haters are the ones who will realize, come DVD release, that this masterpiece deserved to be embraced from the start.
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That's why talkbackers don't represent the general public. This movie will have legs. The first week will not be as big as it could be because a lot of people are holding out to see this in IMAX and couldn't get tickets the first weekend, and will do so next weekend, and word of mouth will carry this film throughout the Christmas break. Families and women will add to the typical male audience for movies like this to make this an enormous blockbuster that slowly builds its box office throughout January.
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Over-under being $300 million domestic.
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Your aggressive responses to each and every criticism of the film even from someone like Asimov who LIKED IT just shows you are in a bad place rationally. Its a film...its not the best film ever made...there will be criticism...get over it.
Equally the absolute haters are missing the point. Not sure about a game changer perse but this is a major step forward and, if for example, I can now expect that anybody using CGI will be laughed out of town if it isn't as good and unobtrusive as here then thats a great thing. Can you imagine a Hulk that looks anywhere near as good as the creatures in AVATAR..yes please.
Box Office is interesting. I don't think AVATAR has been that hyped. I also think that, putting aside story concerns, the inital reaction from folk seeing this is "WoW", and this means that there could be major "word of mouth" uplift in takings. Don't worry about the irrationally extremely negative folk, they don't have friends to convince. For the middle of the roaders like me, I would encourage anyone I knew to go and see this beauty (with caveats around the story !!!) -
Dec 20, 2009 10:25:22 AM CST
Yackbacker...I started to read that thread, but I had to stop...
by chakraborty
...because I couldn't understand what they were talking about...because I don't listen to classical music. If Horner is ripping off a bunch of dead composers, so be it...but someone in that thread made the same point I made...that you can't really plagiarize from yourself...he said "self-referencing" might be a better term. John Williams does it...and I don't really have a problem with it. I detected hints of the Aliens score during some parts, and liked it...musicians tend to have a certain style, and will have sounds that repeat themselves. Also, you could argue that all the modern day rock bands are "ripping off" their predecessors, be it the Stones and Beatles, or the Ramones or Led Zeppelin...it's just the way music evolves...sometimes it's more blatant than others, but I'm unaware when it's being done to dead composers.
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...I predict over $350 million domestic...possibly over $400 million.
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But that's fine. I think Horner is a lesser composer for his extensive plagiarism. All artists borrow, but this guy is in his own fucking league.
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and not a penny more! Let's see where it all shakes out (we'll have a good idea in about 2-3 weeks).
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Last time I checked, Titanic made less than $30 million its opening weekend...you may want to hold off on any box office proclamations. Avatar will play well into February. I'm thinking at least $700 million worldwide by the end of its run...more than enough to justify its pricetag and that's before we get to DVD and Blu-Ray sales.
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It doesn't hit the same demographics that drove TITANIC to the top. If only Cameron included some pale, daywalking, sullen vampires...
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Thurs/Fri$27,000,000 / Sat $25,650,000 /Sun $20,350,000 total estimate $73,000,000
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"...But heres why you should actually love love it."
All of the elements described in the above review, feel like elements decried in other reviews. It almost feels like someone forced themselves to like the film, despite qualities that sound derivative and pedestrian. The above review makes the film sound TERRIBLE, like a parent describing the artisitic merits of a third graders art project. Everyone listening to the gushing parent just nods their heads, unable to associate the level of enthusiam on display, with the individual things being described.
Consider my expectations lowered. Going today. -
I'm glad you're not a professor.
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...Kate Winslet's plump young breasts. AVATAR does not.
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there is no motherfucking way that Fox would have let Cameron get avant garde with that kind of money. Seriously, that kind of risk would have them shitting their pants about a week into principal photography. Of course he had to have a love story (from the writer/director of Titanic) and a 'timeless' tale... that's show BUSINESS. I haven't seen it yet, but I just can't believe anybody is naive enough to think that even Cameron could get away with spending that kind of money with something totally unfamiliar to people. There's only one way you get away with the revolutionary technology AND telling some offbeat story and that's to finance it yourself. George Lucas could do it, Spielberg I'm not sure about after Madoff, and I'm pretty sure Cameron doesn't have that kind of money either. Actually, I don't think anyone does, only Lucas and David Geffen, but he's not a filmmaker.
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Not having a love story isn't avant garde. Refusing to rely on a paint-by-numbers plot is not avant garde either. I don't personally have any issues with the story myself- I am just not impressed with how it was told. It was boring in parts- there was nothing but eye candy to sustain the movie in those instances. I felt like I was watching the pod race from Episode I a few times. I don't fault Cameron for his story, I just don't like his storytelling.
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I braved a blizzard to check it out in IMAX 3D in Atlantic City. This one is a game changer. Cameron has set the bar that Pixar is going to have to jump with "John Carter of Mars".
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Yep. Boring. Just got back and the studio know they have a stinker on their hands. What a mind numbing crashing borefest this film is. Just terrible. My 8 year old boy must have asked me 5 times when the film would be finished. I saw Star Wars when I was 8 and didn't ask my dad once. It doesn't matter how good your effects are, if your story is as boring as Cameron's you are fucking dead in the water.
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And post it here. I think your 8 year old should be the voice of people who dislike this movie.
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I am 8 years old.
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We can all disagree and not get nasty about it. But I do like reading some of the blow-ups here from time to time.
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I was thinking, my reply to pacrone was a bit cruel. My apologie, pacrone.
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Everyone knows when you talk to a "child" on the net you're actually talking to somebody who is essentially Cousin Otho from BEETLEJUICE.
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add on another 300 mill worldwide and that's your lot. King Kong. that's the wiff I get off of Avatar. we could be looking at a film that makes 600 mill and will be considered a flop.
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I would like to see your kid's review. I would LOVE to see it, in fact, because it would cut through all the ridiculous boring pickledrick being thrown around on here. Please ask him to write a review, even if it is like you know one sentence long. And yeah, when I went to see it there were a ton of kids and they were just aching for the movie to end.
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Guy can't spell hypocrite. Fuck him in the asshole.
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Avatar is a better film than 2012 by every objective metric and offers just as much spectacle.
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Not bad for a movie with no big stars, no built-in fanbases and unfamiliar characters. This won't do anything near Titanic numbers, but it will be among the tops. If the middle-aged film critics in major markets are blown away by this, you can bet that a lot of their generational peers will like it, too. Worldwide gross will likely dwarf domestic. Maybe $350 to $400 million domestic, with about $500 to $600 million worldwide, maybe?
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OK, I'm just kidding. I just used that headline to enrage the apologists. It's not a bad opening. I think the studio is really exaggerating the snow effect though, to try to cover up the fact that this thing was not going to build on its Friday total no matter what.
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The creator of Alien and director of cult hit The Return Of The Living Dead just passed away at 63. Hope to see this reported soon. RIP.
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I can't do it without being mean. Someone else do it.
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had it not been for the snow.
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Uhhhh ... you're joking, right?
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His words, his typing. It ain't Pauline Kael but it fucking speaks you the truth.
"avatar was great but it was a little bit long but still i enjoyed it. Avatar was a wee bit violent there was too much going on but was fun. I got fidgety at the end because it was a wee bit long. Thanks for listening by Gingerella’s son the end." -
effected it. It can't be much. I mean not many went anywhere yesterday here in the mid east. But I don't it would effect the film more than a couple million. Which sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. But I'm curious about the Monday actuals.
I was suppose to see it Saturday but exchanged our tickets from fandango for the last showing the night before the storm. For a show that late, the crowd was amped. I just wonder if the 73 million will hold. -
gingerella, you wrote the word 'fucking' to introduce your 8 year olds review?
And you're fine with that? Anyway tell your kid that his review is appreciated! -
as boring as the opening scene of Once Upon a Time in the West, as boring as The Deer Hunter's wedding, as boring as Chihiro's exploration of the bath-house, as boring as the Omar Sharif introduction at the well, as boring as HAL getting disconnected, as boring as the diaologue-free sequences of Thin Red Line. Shit: I think I love boring films. I wish I was a better person: with ADD and an MTV mindset, maybe a Ritalin prescription. Instead of the mindless, contemplative fuck who's probably an elitist in disguise. I need to sequester my consciousness and stop enjoying stuff altogether. Please teach me to hate fun, exploration and exhilaration so that I may find those things boring but love myself... All contributions welcome.
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That guy should just take over STAR WARS from Lucas. Awesome improvements- what the Special Editions should have been.
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Truth! I kid I kid.
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Where's South African Guy, Motoko, Six Demond Bag and Kwisa?
You boys have been cheerleading AVATAR for months and need a round of applause! It turned out great, I haven't seen a huge number of films this year but AVATAR is my favourite of 2009. -
We got tricked into seeing the "Imax Experience" Small ass screen. Bullshit!
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Yack, STAR WARS REVISITED? Explain?
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What's up with the KING KONG comparisons? I personally thought AVATAR was far superior.
Is there anyone out there that prefers PJ's KING KONG over AVATAR? -
He wrote his review then ran off. He didn't see the filthiest of filthy swear word. I added that after he ran away to play with a John Cena wrestling firgure.
73 mill is a disaster. and the characters are VERY familiar. Sully is John Dunbar for starters. -
Here: http://tinyurl.com/yhwmkj3
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Does anyone else think that the part where Neytiri screams and wails about her father is going to go down in history as one of the infamous uninentionally funny scenes in film history? Kind of like Vader's "N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!" in ROTS, and Shatner's "K-h-aaaaa-nnnnnn!" in WRATH OF KHAN(not to mention his weeping over David in SEARCH FOR SPOCK). Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of these events are funny, just the way the scenes are portrayed by the actors, directors and writers. AVATAR is a pretty good flick, just a little too preachy for my tastes. But the visual splendor is overwhelming.
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Does anyone else think that the part where Neytiri screams and wails about her father is going to go down in history as one of the infamous uninentionally funny scenes in film history? Kind of like Vader's "N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!" in ROTS, and Shatner's "K-h-aaaaa-nnnnnn!" in WRATH OF KHAN(not to mention his weeping over David in SEARCH FOR SPOCK). Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of these events are funny, just the way the scenes are portrayed by the actors, directors and writers. AVATAR is a pretty good flick, just a little too preachy for my tastes. But the visual splendor is overwhelming.
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Dec 20, 2009 11:44:08 AM CST
...IMAX. On a lark I saw 300 in IMAX. I guess I expected...
by flickapoo
...it to look like a real IMAX movie...instead it was just a regular movie blown up bigger than it should have been...all grainy and pixelated like a Roy Lichtenstein painting.Sure, people's nipples were bigger than my head...but that only takes you so far.
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is when she tells Jake to go away after they find out what he's done. That was super cheese. Heh.
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It was in their headlines this morning. I guess I should expend more time on the web.
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He's now made three turkeys in a row. True Lies and Titanic made money, Avaturd won't. He should just fuck off now. If he carries on, he'll have as much cred as Bay and McG. He lost his mojo after T2. Hell, even Cameron fans are trashing him now. Cameron, dive to the bottom of the deepest fucking ocean and don't bother coming back up.
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Fair enough. From what I've heard, I will most likely agree with you after seeing it. You're absolutely right, it's one thing to tell the same story that's been told a million times, but it's in HOW you tell it that makes the difference. I'm just saying, I can't believe the amount of people who were expecting some revolutionary story as well. The more of their money you spend, the more they expect you to hedge your bets with the story. And it's like this now more than ever... I don't fully agree with it, but I do understand. It's also why I think District 9, even if people find it derivative, should be lauded simply because he flew low enough under the radar with the budget to get an 'R' rating and to have scenes like the one where they make Wicchus 'test' the guns. I thought that scene alone was pretty powerful and I doubt it would have wound up in the movie had he spent a hundred million dollars or more.
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was District 9 financed outside the studio system? I could have sworn I read that somewhere. I think the same thing is true of Blomkamp's next movie.
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I agree- DISTRICT 9 was able to go to some dark places in part because it was an independent production. And George Lucas got to include jar jar in his movies because he paid for them too. Independent financing is a double-edged sword!
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Turns out 2009 has been a really fine year for Sci Fi.
STAR TREK, DISTRICT 9, MOON, TERMINATOR SALVATION and now AVATAR.
That's some good shit.
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THEY NEVER MATERIALIZED! Can all the people saying how mind-numbingly boring this film is cite a SINGLE FUCKING BORING SCENE?
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gingerella, yes.
Jake Sully = John Dunbar
Neyrtiti = Stands With Fist
Tough Navi Warrior = Wind In Hair
Shooting the Tree Of Life = shooting 'Two Socks' the wolf. -
The film cost $240M to make and $150M to promote.
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There are parallels to DANCES WITH WOLVES and Harry in his review blathers on about John Carter of Mars but really the story is classic white male wish-fulfillment.
White man encounters native tribe, does everything better than them becomes leader and scores the hottest chick. -
im on my ps3!!!
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All his improvements with the possible exception of including a battle droid in the sandcrawler, were great. Including Yavin in the background of the Death Star battle was fucking GOLD!
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The whole studio vs indie thing. If someone really wants to make a badass film from derivative genre styles, District 9 and Let the Right One In show it's possible. If someone wanted to try to make the biggest CGI fest ever... hell that's possible too.
Sooner or later we will have these giant epics that were never imaginable with stories that the studios will let slip by. As of right now we are not there yet. But if things like Observe and Report, New World, and Watchmen can be made with in the studios, then who knows what can slip by when technology becomes more efficient and cheaper. D9 really shows what is at the finger tips of an auteur. -
...Types With A Fist or Posts With A Fist a while back.But I'm too attached to my old silly, stinky name...
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Dec 20, 2009 12:23:11 PM CST
...a pet peeve of mine is when a "white" guy, or in this case...
by flickapoo
...human guy finds himself dropped into some sort of aboriginal culture and inevitably rises to the top due to his intrinsic superiority.It's a traditional pulp theme...Tarzan, Conan etc...and I love that stuff...but it always bugs me.Sure, a "civilized" person might know a few tactical and strategic tricks, but the kind of skills that make you a great warrior in a primitive environment take a lifetime to perfect.
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This film obviously tries to vilify and oversimplify the the military. It's not a new concept, just a fucking tired one. To be reprimanded by a fucking princess like Cameron is laughable. Excuse me if I just don't like having my intelligence insulted for 3 hours. Good day, gentlemen. I SAY GOOD DAY!
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That's a bullshit studio figure. Fuck me, T: Salvation was 200 mill. Avatar is somewhere between 3 and 400 mill. They don't want that getting out. Just like the Harry Potter movies. They cost alot more than they let on.
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Avatar is, by more than 2 1/2 times, the largest opening of any Cameron filmAvatar has ALREADY surpassed the total worldwide grosses of The Abyss and Aliens COMBINED!Every Jim Cameron film's opening gross has always represented less than 18% of it's total gross.Quite unlike his previous films, Avatar's foreign BO share is nearly IDENTICAL to the foreign BO share of Titanic.
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ARMY OF DARKNESS. But yeah, it's a subtle form of elitism at work, ironically.
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I liked the part where the tough Navi warrior goes postal on the mercenaries gunning from the ramp, a very nicely done bit of fx with the live action and the CG.
I also liked the arrow action in the final battle. Best use of over-sized arrows since Boromir getting his in LOTR! -
And likely 400 with marketing.
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Oh, and fuck Pandora. Made up bullshit. They can put a guy in cryo for 5 years, attach his neural network to a ten foot Avatar creature but fixing his legs 'is too costly in this economy'? Stop the bus. I want off.
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It's also one of the reasons young indie directors need to LEARN VISUAL FX. I can't stress this enough... the reason indies are suffering and the festivals are a joke is that there are WAY too many dramatic navel-gazing snoozefests. And it seems like the indie world encourages this, yet all it does is leave a lot of broke filmmakers wondering around festivals, wondering where the deals are made. Nearly EVERY director that makes it has to start with comedy, horror, or science fiction. Why? Because every one of those genres proves that you actually know how to move or manipulate an audience and that's what it's about. Horror and comedy are especially utilitarian... people either laugh/are scared or they're not. There's not much inbetween. Genre sells and Hollywood and indie financiers will love you to death if you can put a good scare or a 'holy shit' FX moment on the screen for next to nothing. And it's amazing how subtle you can be, yet get away with something pretty fantastic. There are now so many tools at our disposal for not much money and it's about time that smaller films begin to use them. Hell, you can download and teach yourself Blender FOR FREE, so there's no excuse not to at least learn the lingo of the FX people and even try some practical stuff yourself. I've done it myself and to go from people liking your stuff but getting no love from 'the system' to having people shit their pants and actually getting into the system is a drug like no other. Indie formula for success - ALIENS/FX + GOOD STORYTELLING = RISING ABOVE THE INDIE BULLSHIT.
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South African Guy - will probably avoid these talkbacks and reviews due to spoilers. Good guess on Motoko, Six Demond Bag. Kwisa has posted in other talkbacks…And, I just have to add — my brother how can you put all those films in the same sentence? "Moon" and "District 9" in the same sentence as "Star Trek"? Really? I mean I enjoyed "Star Trek" as mindless fun but the other two were special treats. (I only like the first 15 minutes of "Terminator Salvation" so, I shouldn't even mention it).
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...it took that theme to A MIGHTY WIND levels of wish fulfillment absurdity and coolness. The pinnacle of Western Civilization I'd say.
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...which, for all of its shortcomings, tends to be a reasonably democratic indicator of a film's quality. Unlike B.O. figures (although it's a shame traditional Disney is plumetting so fast, dammit). Wait 'til you get the international take, it will surprise you.
UPDATE: Actually, I have the international take: it's 160, 230+ worldwide. Good luck defending the flop thesis. -
Cardiac arrest. RIP.
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Yes the avatar program cost billions, but it was to mine unobtanium. What benefit would the government get for giving him new legs? Nothing? Oh....guess that answers your question then eh?
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Dec 20, 2009 12:44:04 PM CST
"we could be looking at a film that makes 600 mill and will be c
by son of the suns
Well, yeah. If it cost $300m to make and another $100m to promote, that's not a great profit margin considering what you could have done with the money instead.
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YES! YES! AND YES!!
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As she always appeared onscreen. She was HAWT, but always looked completely fucked up. She sure was amazing in Sin City so that shows she really did have talent. Might have been a very close-to-home story for her.
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Cardiac arrest? Age 32. Dare I even guess what set that off?
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The precious coco bean.
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blakindigo I put them in the same sentence cos they're all sci fi.I don't think 2009 has been a great year for cinema in general but I do think it's been a brilliant year for sci-fi.
Some people didn't like STAR TREK and TERMINATOR SALVATION - I'm one of those that did. Seen TREK twice, seen TS three times and really enjoyed every viewing. TS in particular gets better on repeat viewings and I think all those who like to diss Sam Worthington should explain why? I personally relate to him, he seems like a strong screen presence to me. -
Is drugs. If it was a genetic heart defect, it would be described as such, not "cardiac arrest". That only happens to fat people and druggies.
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http://www.abevigoda.com/
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Brittany Murphy dead? Fuck, that's a shame for one so young.
Thought she held her own well with Benicio Del Toro and Clive Owen in SIN CITY.
Wonder if this will have any impact on EXPENDABLES? -
It can cause an electrolyte imbalance that can cause heart arrhythmias and death.
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Because if so, that's lame.
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I don't see anything on the intertubes about Brittany Murphy being dead... I see that she was in a movie called The Dead Girl...
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Her struggle with addiction was well known. Sad for someone so young…
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...dude, that "unobtainium" argument has been beaten to death. Let it go. I think it WOULD have been better if they had called it HANDWAVIUM. At least people would have understood the geek humor.
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It's fucked up, I was watching HAPPY FEET yesterday and thinking to myself "Brittany Murphy's voice is annoying me." I'm sorry I was thinking that around the time she was on her way to dying. But how the fuck was I supposed to know she was on a deadly coke binge?
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She was funny, and cool. I really liked her. Shit.
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It's the first time I've heard about it since I haven't been obsessed with this movie for years. Notice how I actually ASKED the question.
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because only idiots believe in that stuff right? way to be smart Harry
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AVATAR's score is trwerribly derevative of Horner's own score for TROY. Too derivative. I recognized quite many clues from it. Which where derivative from Horner's other previous wrok. When the AVATAR score is not ripping off Adiemus, it's ripping off Horner's previous work. It's terrible. I'll defend a lot of things about the movie. The score is not be one of them.
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The radius around Hollywood. Googled it.
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...too many drugs...and if you're too skinny or too fat you probably shouldn't take any drugs.Damn shame.
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The Cryo and Avatar program were for the express purpose obtaining "unobtainium". Fixing a contracted employee's legs does nothing for obtaining money for the company. Modern day example: Those guys that setup the oil operations in the middle of the Alaskan winter. The oil company will pay them shitloads to go up there, give them use of equipment that costs millions of dollars, but they aren't going to pay for some expensive operation for you just like that unless it helps their bottom line out. Plus that mineral they are mining is massive bucks. 1 US ton would = $18,140,000,000 based on the 20mil per kilo quote in the film. Given the size of those shuttles, I imagine they send back alot more then 1 ton. And they have a complete monopoly on the operation I imagine.
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Harry, I saw Avatar last night and you see the film in exactly the same way as me. The story so intricate and deep in many ways, but it can be enjoyed on a cosmetic level as well. It's not about amazing CGI for me. I just loved the story and the characters.
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That's actually more interesting than I would've given TMZ credit for.
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It was created years ago in hollywood as a kind of invisible border. If a film production travelled beyond the tmz they would get paid extra for gas etc.
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I was sure the Z would stand for Zine, and T would stand for The. I was mildly impressed.
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First of all, Jar Jar Abrasm's SHIT TREK is very easy to dislike because the movie is complete incompetence from begining to end. Speak for yourself if you think that piece of shit is hard to hate. And technically, it's not all that. Average blockbuster competence i have seen too often to be dazzled by complete averageness.And no, the world of Pandora is not that terribly alien. It's just Earth stuff but woth some stuff added on. A big rhino with a hammerhead shark's head. Plants who look like polips from the bottom of the sea. The "dogs" which look just like dogs without skin. The horses, which look like a mix of a horse, a bit antilope and the head of a seahorse, and instead of nostrils has holes in the neck. Thing, all the creatures from Pantora can be easily extrapolated from creatures on Earth. Their alieness is quite casual, even mundane. I wish i could think differently, but i can't. I see what i see.. And the trees, they are like our trees, only much larger. Ferns, big ferns. But just ferns. No, man, the wildlife of Pandora just doesn't look too alien. and nor do the Na'vis, which are just bigger, taller people with a blue paintjob and a cat face and tail. But everything else they look and act like humans. Inclusing a very kee human-like notion of individduality, which clashes badly about a race that can connect, literally, with all other organisms in the planet. A race like that wouldn't had absolutly no sense of individual self.As many have said before, this are the typical concessions that filmmakers do in the hope their movie don't alienate their audiences. But they do it at the expense of their own internal logic, and fail at delivering truly alien things.
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According to Cinematical. (and yes the actual budget was $240M)
...what makes this news worth paying attention to is the fact that these changes slot Avatar into a position in which it could conceivably earn its budget back from Chinese cinemas alone. The biggest time of the year for the Chinese box office is the three month window that covers Christmas, New Year, and the Chinese Lunar New Year and now that these four domestic films have made way for an international usurper, it means Avatar will be taking over a whopping 80% of China's screens during its most crucial box office season.
Oddly enough, Fox has still not finalized Avatar's screening permit in China, but no one is expecting it'll get denied. A general manager for China's New Film Association tells SD, "It is the first time in five years that such a heavyweight Hollywood film released in the year-end season. Its box office impact will be huge." Considering every other film during its run will be vying for the 20% of negative space Avatar won't be occupying in all of its 2D, 3D, and IMAX formats, I'd say huge is a conservative estimate... -
There should had been only the sounds from the scenes. No music, no score. The score ruins the movie. It's not only too on the nose, it's too manipulative, but also it's too distracting due to it's awfulness. Everytime the score played, it distracted me from the mood of the scene.I fully believe that if the movie didn't had a score, people wouldn«'t had even noticed it, because they would been too distracted by the narrative and the visuals, which despiste my own personal complains, are brillantly realised. The visuals and the editing alone would had made the movie, the score is just baggage.
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China to the rescue, hem?
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At least close to it, 232 million worldwide this weekend. This movie is going to do just fine.
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Cocaine is a helluva drug.
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Check out my new comic Goldilock. It's thru Zuda Comics...DC Comics' branch of webcomics. Free to read. 1st 8 pages are up now and will be updating weekly starting early 2010.
http://zudacomics.com/node/1261 -
jesus christ :(
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Rescue what? Avatar has been nominated for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Score, Best Song and others. It has incredible reviews and is doing monster numbers at the box office. The fact it's going to play in China on 80% of their screens at their busiest time of year is like winning the lottery after you've already paid all your bills and have millions in the bank. Don't you read any of the trades? Opinions are fine, even misguided ones, but at least do some research.
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Fuckin Shame...hot piece of ass that girl. I'm going to get out the old FHM and toss one off in tribute to her tonight. RIP baby.
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Foreign box office receipts are generally split down even further than the share FOX gets from domestic sales. The foreign distributor gets their slice in addition to the theaters. Not every dollar made at the box office goes back to FOX. Generally, a movie needs to make about twice its budget back in order to clear a profit. So, depending on your belief system- AVATAR cost either $240 or $300 million, which means it needs to make between $500-600 million total in order to make a profit. It's a very attainable number, but this opening weekend doesn't cover its budget. So, hold off, tex.
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That's a Ledger style shock. She was so young. Sucks.
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But remember...most Hollywood accountants do not include Marketing as part of the cost of the film. That said Avatar didn't have HUGE marketing power...instead using sites like this to drum up interest (unpaid for I'd hope...hmmm), so figure another $50M in marketing costs. I'd wager that is you dug into it...that Avatar ended up somewhere north of $350M.I wonder if JC made sure he wasn't paid monkey points for this...cuz you KNOW Fox is looking for ways to make sure this thing does not show a cent of profit on paper.
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With a good chunk of the DVD sales as well as equity in the new tech he and WETA developed for this movie. WETA just booked itself steady work for another 10 years thanks to what they pulled off here. WETA is to ILM what Apple Computers is to Microsoft. In that very narrow sense, AVATAR is a gamechanger (within the industry)
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http://tinyurl.com/y864de4
EAT THIS HATERS,AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -
an unprescedented global marketing campaign. They haven't relied on dick. They calculated every penny spent.
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http://tinyurl.com/y864de4
EAT THIS HATERS,AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -
a big opening bow either...If memory serves me right, it openned at a disappointing 35 - 37 million dollars domestically.
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FRankly, i don't care all that much about the box office results of a movie. they are,f or me, at best mere coruosities. The box office is in any way an indication of a movie's quality. And that is the thing that i care the most about a movie.
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How have you been?
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I bet the accountants have already projected this at a net loss...lol Ya gotta love Hollywood Accounting.
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Do you seriously believe Fox would spend $240M on a movie and trust its fate to the opinion of some talk-backers? LOL. THE MOVIE IS A LOT BIGGER than just the people who visit this site.
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Dec 20, 2009 2:03:44 PM CST
Not just that: TITANIC'S sucess was build on word of mouth
by asimovlives
TITANIC was a marathon runner, it didn't started all that big, but it build, and build and build and build and build... it just kept on pouring. I doubt AVATAR will so similiar business as TITANIC. But it would be kinda vindictative if id did more then TRANSFORMERS 2. Sure,a nd to reinstate what i said before, box office is no indication of quality. But it would be lots of fun to see what is in actuality a good movie like AVATAR beat such a piece of shit like TRASNFORMERS 2 at the box office. It would at least make me regain a bit of hope and trust for the human race.
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It's must-see material, but only in 3-D. I do think if you didn't see it in 3-D, you would be much more aware of the, while not as bad as some would have you believe, but very basic storyline. It is a monumental achievement in three-dimensional storytelling though. I almost can't process everything see I saw.
To the haters, 234 million dollar world wide opening in epic. It's profitable within 10 days. It's a giant success. Deal with it.
Sad about Brittany Murphy. I wasn't really a fan, per se, but that's a terrible thing. I'll always remember her as Thai in Clueless, where she was wonderful. rest in peace -
I read it in two of the trades earlier this week as reported by a Fox Exec to end so much speculation. I quoted it in a previous thread. You could track it down if you are so inclined.
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Loved Avatar, not the greatest script, but after the slow first half of the second Act, it really kicked into high gear and I felt myself wanting to go punch every White person in the room.
Reminded me a lot of ROTJ with The Empire (white) going up against the Rebel Alliance (mixed, united) Good job JC -
and likely to not pan out. There are numerous factors one could cite to show how AVATAR is not TITANIC- chief among them being the content of the movie- TITANIC was basically our generation's GONE WITH THE WIND- the true all-time title-holder for most seats sold by any movie- EVER. Well, one could say AVATAR is this generation's STAR WARS- they'd likely be wrong, but let's go with that for a moment. The other large factor going on now is that people go to the theaters much less than they did 30 if not a mere 10 years ago. Box office business is done in the first 3 weeks of a movie's release now. Rarely a movie will go on and on, but more likely than not, they fizzle fast.
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Tragic. RIP.
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just say no! RIP Britnay Murphy... rolling with the homiessssssssss
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First of all there are no major reference to IRAQ, only cliche type talk like ("your not in kansas anymore")... We should praise James Cameron for at least having a possible understanding of what it mean to Marine's to be Marines, and to give them their due respect as one of the world's toughest mentally, physically and spiritually... each member of the Armed Services needs their due respect... from the first day of their training till the day they are no longer here on earth in physical form... Jake was not specifically a Marine throwing grenades into warships of other Marines... they were a joint force of many warriors from many different military and non-military organization's, and the truth is we don't really know... I like the movie and I found the emotion in the many facial CGI facial expressions to surpass many in today's live action cinema. What Cameron achieved in that technology to mask the physical movement of the CGI facial and body movements has been the best of what we've seen in CGI humanoid character's since Episode II's YODA (and he's a puppet worked and voiced by Frank "miss piggy, animal, fozzy the bear" Oz. Cameron just barely misses Lucas's finesse in Avatar with some of the CGI action but he come's out on top with the quality emotional CGI facial expression's. Zoe saldana's performance really show's and I think is the best performance followed by Sigouney weaver who is tough but is not replicating Ripley from aliens which is good and bad for all the critics thinking such... I like all of camerons movies and can say that I haven't see the entire Abyss movie and if I did I'd better go back and watch it. AVATAR , I was skeptical in the beginning learning about the movie, because of CG and i am not a fan of 3D cause of all the animated nonrealistic looking animation... I prefer old looney tunes hanna barbarra animation over the new stuff... But i think he really did good job.. and what I find to be the case with all these moies nowadays is that the movie could be MUCH MUCH BETTER ( I just don't understand it, really, and I guess I just got to get my pen moving cause there are too many writer director's writer's out there making small and big movies that suck in story... SO to cap this off, the way the Navii are shown being connected to everything on pandora and pandora to them and the emotion emitted throught the CGI rendering of the live actor's performance makes for some the best emotion in cinema as of late LIVE ACTION OR CGI. Everything else story wise could have been elaborated on more, like the extended edition of T2 or ALIENS. The STAR WARS movies old or new ones really don't need extended edition's cause the story is there... ROBOCOP the original just did it and it was viceral original vigorous (these movies today aren't that anymore) COMMANDO was a good story and believeable... PREDATOR was excellent (blood gore, tough guys all sorts and colors and ethinics) and the predator was nothing like what we saw before and it was a guy in a suit... Gullermo del tor and the hellboy movie's pretty good in incorporation both CGI and puppeteering... STAR TREK 2009 a good movie overall LIKE SPIDERMAN 1 (Story could have been better for STAR TREK), while less CGI should have been used for SPIDERMAN 1 but with part 2 they got much better and the VOICE OVERS ARE GREAT which adds in the emotion... Tim burton's BATMAN Smooth flowing excellent and capturing music compositons excellent acting believeable characters being played actors that made them believeable with michael keaton who didn't start out as a caped crusader in hollywood to be the best to date to have done it with exception of chistopher reeve with his whole being as superman in a movie that richard donner crafted and pushed for things to change with a studio that just wants to screww with quality visions... nowadays studio's allow for screwed up low quality visions to come to fruition like the reenvisoning of FRIDAY THE 13TH (I don't care look back at those first 4 movies and part 6 then watch freddy vs. jason and see how the director of that went back to the beginning of both franchise's and crafted a better story than goes to hell jason x or the new friday the 13th or the soon to be released remake of nightmare on elm street) Everything you need to paint a more detailed remake of the oringinal fridays exists in the original friday's and do not need to be omitted like marcus nispel did and the studio allowed, but should be expanded a bit from the facts from and in the old movies... the look of the characters, were just regular kids tryin their hand at this and that in acting, I mean come there has got to be another SHELLY from part 3 that guy really looked and sounded the part, and the woman heroines of part 1 3 4 looked irreplaceable tome.. This new movie FRIDAY THE 13TH renvisioning had none of that... like most everything else... Spiderman had good acting and emotions and some good effects and smooth flowing direction but isn't complete when I see a little piece of crap CGI screw up or 10 mins of venom in part 3 and then he's dead... (and I don't read comic books, but heard from my friends who does and bloggers who do, then why screw with the source material 100%, if venom is major, then give him his due in a 1 or 2 part story do it thorough. THe Thoroughest part of this movie AVATAR is #1 the 3D Cinematograpy to bring the viewer a new live action cinematic experience with the Assistance of CGI ( and I haven't seen this movie in 3D, I saw in 2D conventinally). #2 is the emotion from the CGI facial expression's watch sigourney and saldana and the flying creatures which are great the land based one's need work ( episode II's creatures were much better, but jar jar doesn't come close to Avatar... but the finesse of count dooku's fight with anakin and obi wan in the beginning of episode 3 and CGI is hard to beat (dooku face being superimposed and his body being somersaulted via cgi and christopher lee's acting all make it work and you can't tell from lucas's direction and lucas keeps touting himself as a reluctant director and yet he's done a fine job ... All I have to say is Whatever I'm tired now blahaaahahhh (posted by someone who dreams of making movies someday, thorough and complete )
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but if you follow any of the film sites online, or in print....the word of mouth marketing has been far more extreme than anything put on TV or bought in commercial time. JC hyped this thing perfectly...getting free publicity in print and online due to his "Game Changer" angle...and got lots of mileage out of places like this. This is unlike, say the typical Action Flick or RomCom, who spend an extreme portion on televised advertising and print ads due to little or no chatter being generated spontaneously.That is why I thought maybe $50M...just not a lot of bought prime time coverage...at least in West Coast markets.
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Learn it, Love it, Live it...
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Oh yeah? How about when Quaritch says "We gotta terrorize the TERRORISTS!"?
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ass is dead. Discuss.
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The greatest Star Wars reworking has always been: http://tiny.cc/hww:)
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But I did catch something about Lucas being a good film director. Crazy non- using bastard.
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..this is probably a very sad day for everyone who knew her. May her family and friends find comfort in each other. I have enjoyed some of Murphy's work as an actor, and must say the best I have seen of it, was from her turn in Sin City. Very good work indeed. RIP
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But still, for a film about what Avatar was about, that's still pretty vague in terms of commentary. I don't think Avatar is terribly political overall. Sure, humans are bad guys...but that's just the truth. It's not liberal or conservative. Humans fuck shit up. It's in our nature. The Na'vi are better than us. That's not liberal or conservative either. I'd be a Na'vi in a second.
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Asi complaining that Pandora isn't alien enough seems strange?? Especially from one such as yourself who grew up loving Star Trek on TV and seeing a hundred different alien races played by humans - invariably speaking English and often wearing only costume (no facial make up) to show they are indeed alien!
If anything AVATAR really went the extra mile to show 'the flora and fauna' of Pandora, almost in a nature docu kind of style. Seems a very nit picky thing to bash the film with. -
I personally don't care about it either way, but AVATAR has taken a political position. Compare AVATAR's vision of humans exploring space with Gene Roddenberry's STAR TREK. AVATAR has assumed the complete opposite of what Roddenberry believedre: human space exploration. Both stories take positions, it doesn't negate any entertainment value for me, but it's important to be aware of what the storyteller is doing.
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I completely agree, sites like this will give more exposure to a film of status accordingly, but unlike a normal TV ad with limited exposure for a targeted audience, Avatar is being advertised on virtually every channel in prime time. Cameron and co. are touring the globe doing interviews day and night. Check out the interview he did with popular mechanics, it's nearly 30 minutes long on youtube. It's really good actually.
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First to follow JC's vision,John Carter of Mars:
*http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2009/12/mark-strong-on-how-avatar-will.html
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or did someone say that already? RIP Brittany Murphy.
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The term "terrorism" was originally used to describe the actions of the Jacobin Club during the "Reign of Terror" in the French Revolution. "Terror is nothing other than justice, prompt, severe, inflexible," said Jacobin leader Maximilien Robespierre. In 1795, Edmund Burke denounced the Jacobins for letting "thousands of those hell-hounds called Terrorists...loose on the people" of France.[70]
In January 1858, Italian patriot Felice Orsini threw three bombs in an attempt to assassinate French Emperor Napoleon III.[71] Eight bystanders were killed and 142 injured.[71] The incident played a crucial role as an inspiration for the development of the early Russian terrorist groups.[71] Russian Sergey Nechayev, who founded People's Retribution in 1869, described himself as a "terrorist", an early example of the term being employed in its modern meaning.[10] Nechayev's story is told in fictionalized form by Fyodor Dostoevsky in the novel The Possessed. German anarchist writer Johann Most dispensed "advice for terrorists" in the 1880s.[72]
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Macready said he must have died...and I was thinking the same thing recently...
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...complained so much that his keyboard got depressed and exploded in his moaning face.
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Read it like a poem, no 's needed. suck itup
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...a well worn path that it hardly packs a new or significant punch. It's worth noting, but not dissecting.It's like a prefab house...it may be in this or that architectural style, but it hardly makes a meaningful statement of any kind.AVATAR may be big fun, but I wouldn't make too much of the politics...
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or when Neytiri tries to revive her father does she say "wakey wakey"?
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Dec 20, 2009 3:02:17 PM CST
There are a lot of Americans who will sympathize with Quatrich
by chakraborty
For them, it will be hard to enjoy the movie. There was one dude sitting near me who laughed at certain points when Na'vi were killed, and at other inappropriate moments...I could tell where his sympathies lied.
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James Camerons game changing technology now allows the corpses of dead actors to act digitally and be seamless with living actors. It'll be like she never died. Which is perfect for bringing Joker back for the eventual Batman sequel.
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...is that Cameron shits all over the very type of society that allows him to even attempt to make a movie like AVATAR. He should shut his fucking mouth, or better yet, send some praise to people who are willing to fly halfway across the universe to secure a better future for mankind. By AVATAR'S logic, we should have just turned around and went home upon finding north america already inhabited by technologically inferior peoples. Does ANYONE here see any kind of reality where such a thing would have happened? Wake the fuck up morons, like it or not, the world is a hard fucking place, and it sucks to be at the bottom of the food chain. I wish it weren't that way, but it is, and it always will be.
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hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! dude, you are very clever/funny/witty. you are so awesome and funny. man, you gotta warn us before you post such funny insights and jokes. ah man, wow, i wasn't expecting such a laugh riot, my side hurts. you fucking douche.
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lockes was fucking hot! RIP lockes.
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Very droll, friend. However, you are forgetting one thing: the technology of the times and the budget invoklved. Back then when TOS was made, it was pretty hard to pull an alien which was not a guy with make-up. However, they did pulled one sucessfully, the HORTA, which is a truly alien innlook and conception, and far out-alien anything in AVATAR. With today's technology, and with CGI, they could had pulled the most bizzare, strange, alien creature imaginable. But they didn't they just shuffled a bit of know flora and fauna, as if it was a more sophisticated version of that early 2000's computer game where you could mix up animals, mixing head of a tiger with hands of a gorilla and the fishtail of a shark. And in the TOS, they had an extremely limited budget and were limited bty what pratical effects could achive. With AVATAR, they had an hummoungous budget, the best technicians working for Hollywood. Therefore, yes, i'll give a leeway to TOS that i can't for AVATAR. AVATAR aliens should had been more aliens. At the very least, the animals and the plants.That is not to say i disliked what i saw. I liked it. I just didn't found it very alien. don't msitake me for what i'm not: an hater. I'm, not a AVATAR hater. In fact, i'll defend this movie quite a lot agaisn tthe haters. But i'm neither blind to it's flaws, which, unfortunatly, are quite many, the way i see it. But it also have many virtues worth defending too.
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I bet you are not at the bottom of the food chain and you never suffered dispossession and ruin for the sake of other's confort and interests, have you?
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one thing that might have made this film not so 'hypocritical', is if the 'unobtanium' was a material that was actually saving lives/curing disease/something along those lines. that way it would've presented a much more difficult and complex dillemna. because you are right: we wouldn't even have this type of filmmaking had history not gone down the way it did. but we can't deny the inhumane slaughter the native americans endured. i don't know, like you said, its a fucked up world, but the 'in-between the lines' that cameron has presented aren't as black and white as he painted it.
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I didn't say that I don't find it sad that the strong prey on the weak, and in the context of the movie I CAN sympathize with the Na'vi in AVATAR. What I am saying is that the world is a fucking hard place, and Cameron shitting all over the very lifestyle he has used to even dream of making a movie like this makes him look like a fucking hypocrite.
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It's one of it's virtues.
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I am IN the US military, and I can assure you that I know exactly what it feels like to be preyed on by someone more powerful than me. I joined the military because I could not afford to go to college on my own, and I wanted to serve my nation. I know exactly what hardship is all about, and I have seen it first hand in way that would probably make you throw up. My disdain for liberals is deeply rooted in the fact that many of them have no fucking idea what they are talking about.
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There is a saying "If you're under 40 and a republican you have no heart, if you're over 40 and a democrat you have no brains" So being that under 40 people have more disposable income they target the liberal minds to get them to spend money on their flicks.
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You can set your watch by this fuckin' guy!
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She deserves one, can the editors of AICN make one for her?
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I had a friend who ripped Avatar a new one because the miltary attacked the blue people. Um, it's clearly stated in the movie the company was controlling the marines on the planet. It's not like the Marines just went in attacking.
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You see that shit, pacrone?!?!?!?!
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Fuck me..all this political bullshit. It is a Movie..made by a big faceless corporation for maximum profits, and directed by a guy who owns a G5 and two 25,000sq ft homes in Malibu alone.Any "Political", "Ecogreenie" or "Corporatist" talking points are just there to make a story...that is it. JC and Fox believe in the supposed "meaning" of that Story as much as I believe Brittany Murphy will hop up from the gurney, sprint down the street, fly into the air and splaying her delicious legs in mid flight, wrap her luscious, if somewhat cold, thighs around my face and fill my mouth with her final orgasmic juices. Now go and have fun, stop reading so much into every damned little thing...and if someone knows how to unlock the taut thighs of the living dead please let me know...it is getting hard to breathe.
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so relax,you can expect the news to be up in a few hours from now.
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and I thought the siamese hookers that Cameron hired for him would've made him think otherwise.
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...So everyone can most likely shit allover it.
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and that is a guy who not only saved Disney twice, but spent his life protecting and promoting hand drawn animation and the arts.So don't hold your breathe for an Obit of a less than A list actress.
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You lose.
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thunder! Thunder! THUNDER SMURFS! HOOOO!
ahhh, feel better now -
Everyone came in here expecting Harry NOT to love it?
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Not knowing what they are talign about is the same accusation that could be thrown at the neo-cons and conservatives. Your case seems to be one of misdirectioned revolt. The people who made you eat shit is the people you would all your felow political equals. It's they who created the world of shit we are now living in. The liberals are pointing out the shit and the mess. You don't get to be in teh right be being part of the very system that caused the wrong-doing, and them blame those who didn't iniciated it for it's ills, while protecting and being affiliated to those that have. Because for you to do so, it would cause a major change of your paradigms, and the easiest way out is to blame those you already disagreed with, instead of noticing that it's your side which actually did the wrong-doings.And if your anti-libberal bias makes you see AVATAR and the bad guys in the movie as merely a fight between liberals and conservatives, and you feel your side is being bashed for the portait of the corporation stooge adn the mercenaries. The mvoie is a story of a fight between the oppressed and the oppressors. That you turned it and see it as a figth between liberals and conservatives says more about you, and your pains of conscience, then any thing that's truly in the movie. Because, liberal or conservative, we all should always be on the sides of the oppressed against the oppressors. for you to see the bad guys oppressors of the movie as an attack on your conservative ideals, that just shows that you might have a few ideals of your own which, frankly, shouldn't not be held by anybody who would want to walk the line.Might it ever occoured to you that in at least some regards you migth have misunderstood and misread the movie and just reacted too thin-skinned? Think about it.
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If humans treated other humans as if we part of a food chain then that would make us cannibals. We don't eat weaker humans and we shouldn't kill them for their resources either. That makes us just as uncivilized as cannibals. You ever heard of a thing called morals? It's the fabric of society. It's the reason a jealous alpha male didn't bash your head in while you were playing super nintendo. We have rules in a society and those rules should include co-existance with cultures we deem different. Even if they live on top of rich mineral reserves. We aren't baboons who kill the weak. We are humans with the ability to make reasoned, moral decisions. Might doesn't always equal right. Maybe you'd prefer to live in some darwinian dystopia where anyone who can't bench 400 pounds or reverse engineer a rocket ship is beaten into a bloody pulp and served as dog food. Well then it is clear that people like yourself are the enemy and should be made to be villians at every opportunity because most people want to co-exist without slaughtering people for their resources. James Cameron is not a hypocrite for pointing that out. He's only being logical if the golden rule is any indication. And the golden rule beats your "might is right" caveman mentality any day of the week. It is far more logical and aware so acknowledge it before some big dude beats you with a rusty pipe for weak reasoning ability.
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I didn't bother to read this review or the comments following it.
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They weren't evne marines, they were mercenareis hired as personal security forces for the corporation's presence at Pandora.What i find remarkable about certain people is that even watching such a simple movie as AVATAR, and yet they still mannaged to not understand it. How the fuck they do this? Avatar, for all it's virtues, subtlery is not one of those. Hell, there was even a narration detailing who the military-like guys were in Pandora. How the fuck some people not got that? What the fuck where they doing when the movie was being played out in front of their eyes? Crochet?
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Cause critics love RDJ, and they'd never rip it a new one.
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Flying mountains? Maybe Rocky & Bullwinkle (or Boris and Natasha) should sue!
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It's hypocrisy? That's like saying a fat person can't criticize slaughterhouses for being unsanitary.
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the colonization of indeginious people, pre-emtive war and deforestation of the Amazon jungle. Oh, and it also briefly dealt with our utter contempt of other religions.
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They mention "Shock and Awe"...the operational name of the first strike offensive that the U.S. launched against Iraq. It's in Avatar...and I believe the line is given twice in quick succession.
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I have been pretty harsh in my accusations that the fauna and flora of Pandora are not all that alien looking... however, i really liked the Hammerhead Rhinos. They were very cool.
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...ala Blackwater, they are hired soldiers of fortune, not standing marines, but ex-marines.
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Why is it people like you can't seem to differentiate between support of Capitalism and condemnation of its more rapacious forms? What is it with you? Why should someone like me, who supports a free market, also support any type of amoral behavior a corporation will engage in for profit? I know this is hard for you to grasp but it is actually possible to believe in the greater good of Capitalism without resorting to a market free-for-all awash with oppression, exploitation and genocide.
Avatar does NOT make James Cameron a hypocrite. -
Not that I care about the politics of the movie, but the references were made with intent.
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It still doesn't say much about the marines, does it? I mean, this guys were once marines, and now are blood lusting mercenaries for hire who don't bat an eyelid if they are part of a genocide. Aparently their stay at the marines didn't teached them morals, ethics and etiquette. Sounds like a pretty big failure from the corps. It's as if all the corps did was teach them the use of weaponry and how to kill and nothing else. Doesn't bode well to the marines institution.
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It's one thing to see him as a cool, iconic, badass villain, and another thing entirely to root for him. If you root for him or the corporation in this film simply because they are humans or Americans, then you're nothing but a borderline fascist.
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I'm going to fully agree and side with you on that, regardless of what i think of you. You said it as it is.
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..., including the plant life, you couldn't relate to it, so somethings had to be made familiar...in look, Cameron even said as much about the Na'vi in interviews. If we, the audience, could not relate to them, in terms of their look, if it was made too alien, the audience could not establish an emotional connection to those characters, at least not as well as one might hope. How could Jake fall for someone, a being, that looked like a moth, for instance, hence, the reason a humanoid appearance was given to the Na'vi...and the environment was made to look somewhat relatable to the Earth. Certainly, Pandora is more alien in look than anything in the Star Wars films or anything in Star Trek, you would agree?
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is a hit. Look who it's going up against:The Princess and the frog, blind side, did you hear about the morgans, and new moon. The latter of all's popularity has died down. Tell me if this sounds familiar: "Whattya wanna see hon? Tonight is your tunr to pick the movie. I picked blind side last week." "I guess.......Avatar. Special FX look really neat." Critics will back anything Cameron does from now until the end of time because Titanic made 25.5 Trillion dollars.
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It's been quite awhile since we had a good movie. Not since Trek has everyone been out to see it. It's a fun movie. All that's in theaters now is bloody cartoons.
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I support the troops, and I love them. I also enjoyed Avatar a lot. The main thing for me was how Worthington played the part of a marine. I know two marines personally. In the story, I'm assuming Jake became crippled due to his service, and I think it mentioned that he took on a dangerous campaign in Venezuela, or something, when he talked to Quaritch for the first time. You'd think Jake would convey more of his military experiences in his Avatar body on the get-go, instead of fumbling around like a little child. Maybe lead the Na'vi with marine hand signals.. or pick up on the Na'vi training faster than the average Avatar driver. Marines are trained killers, but Jake seemed a bit soft. Just thinking out loud.
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In that famous Star Trek TOS episode, they created a truly alien creature, the Horta, which was not even carbon-based but silica-based. and in the end, they mannaged for us to feel empathy and sympathy for a completly alien creature. And all in the space of 40 minutes, most of them spent with the heros. And might i remind you,the creature had killed about 20 people before we even get a first glimpse of it. What is AVATAR's excuse?How much is too alien? Specially regarding an ALIEN planet? If the story is spent on an alien planet, how can it be TOO ALIEN? If anything, if there would be a problem is for it to be TOO FAMILIAR. Which, unfortunatly, is the problem about Avatar's Pandora world, including the Na'vi.I'm sorry, but the Na'vi to be so close to the humans is just too cute. It's too easy. In the end, i didn't connected to the story and specially the Na'vi as much as i would like because i was not really experiencing true alieness. It was just a bunch of oversized-humans with cat faces and a blue paintjob with very humanly recognizable characteristics. It's a testement to Cameron's skills as a filmmaker that, despiste all my misgivings about the movie, i still liked it and fell the need to defend it against the bashers and haters. But i'm not blind to the movie's faults, of which it's lack of alieness is it's biggest, even bigger then it's simple story (the later of which i don't even rate as a real fault).
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New Moon was a hit and that wasn't a good movie. I seriously doubt Avatar is getting $$$ by word of mouth that it's a "good movie." Whatever that means anymore.
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they got their love story,they enjoyed it,they got entertained.Just like people got entertained by the crapfest Star Trek.its all about perspective.
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I think Jake Sully fared pretty well for a first timer. Remember, when he first jacked in to the Avatar body, he picked it up so fast, he even went out of the installatiosn and start running. Pretty unexpected, considering all others before him had a longer adaptation to the avatars. All things consdiered, Sully is a pretty smart and very fast leaner, consdiering he had no trainign whatsoever on the Avatar program, and he adapted pretty fast to the ways of the Na'vi, despiste the protestations of the princess. If anything, Sully is one of the typical Super-Blue Collars found inso many of Cameron's movies. Cameron loves scientists and geeks, but he can't make himself put any of those as heroes of his movies, it's always the super-blue collar guy.
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Yeah, it made over 200 mil, but it dropped fast. I love how Avatar came out of nowhere with bad hype, now everyone is seeing it.
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I know chicks who detest New Moon. Let's not generalize, shall we?
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prior training on how to use his Avatar body.thats pretty clear in the movie.furthermore he was crippled,and suddenly he was using a stronger,more flexible alien body,which made him too enthusiastic about it,he really acted like a kid when he first got the body.
so its not that weird that he couldnot control it so easily from the get-go,and looked like an idiot.
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prior training on how to use his Avatar body.thats pretty clear in the movie.furthermore he was crippled,and suddenly he was using a stronger,more flexible alien body,which made him too enthusiastic about it,he really acted like a kid when he first got the body.
so its not that weird that he couldnot control it so easily from the get-go,and looked like an idiot.
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and it didn't have 94 percent from top critics. Those are signs a movie is "good".
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Being alien it's the very reason why you are even call it an alien planet. Otherwise, all you get is a PRETTY FAMILIAR PLANET WITH SOME DIFFERENCES.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:49:15 PM CST
If only the scientists taught the Navi how to play basketball
by saber12
they would be celebs on Earth.
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the Navi should not be too alien.
Just remember the scene in D9,with the photoshoped picture with him fucking a prawn.
Now what do you think the reaction of the audience would be to that specific picture?what was yours?what was the reaction of the other talkbackers here,who watched that scene? -
That would be a literally game changer.
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when Jake goes running off on his avatar legs for the first time. Glad someone brought that up.
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Dec 20, 2009 4:56:46 PM CST
I thought is was really good - with a few flaws
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Jimmy and the worlds greatest writer and he damn sure did not spend 12 years writing this, but it was entertaining as hell. Yeah, it was a cliche, but is was done damn well!
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...is made-up of criminals, in any population, and I am sure that there are those that exceed that number in terms of being criminally minded. The military recruits out of the pool of available applicants, 100 percent of the populace, or nearly that, and many go under the radar as they have never been busted for past crimes which they may have committed, including serious crime. If you like to harm people, rape them, murder, or steal, the best position to be in would be in a job on a war field as it wouldn't be easy to track your crimes as being crimes, just acts of war that could easily be covered-up. Thus, many people who are disturbed, will and do seek out such jobs and get them.Alas, it is my personal view that most people are sociopaths, something that institutions of higher learning, the medical profession, law enforcement, the military/government, and the media don't like to talk about, but they are well aware of. Sociopaths are people who are narcissists. They only care about themselves, and have no empathy for others, so it doesn't matter if they join the marines, a church, become doctors, executives, cops, firemen politicians or teachers, they are what they are, and use their positions as a guise to hide behind. One's job title does not dictate good character, one's actions do, if consistent and real. There are good marines...and bad marines, good cops...and bad cops, good teachers...and bad ones, etc. Hell, I know about the latter, because my ex-girlfriend is a psyche major with a master's and demonstrated being a sociopath in its fulliest definition. She could fake emotion, but never really understood it. Her motive was to make her herself appear to fit in with others, seem nice and normal, but she was, is...a highly messed-up person, with reason...as she comes from a tragic background, but she is a school teacher and in two years, she will be a PHD and a practicing phychiatrist. So, as I said, don't be fooled by a job title or a degree, as that does not speak to a person's character or intent, however, many people are taken in by such titles, and assume that your title guarantees good character if it is, in fact, high enough. The number one career profession of serial killers is, guess what, that of security guards? Again, don't be fooled by job titles, I was until I learned better. Anyway, my point is, the movie isn't talking about all marines, just a small handful of hired guns who use to be marines.
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I don't know what the people in your theater reacted, but the audience in the theater i watched the movie, they laughed at the romantic love scene of AVATAR. So, as such, they laughed anyway. Besides, i think the romance aspect of the AVATAR sotry is not only silly, but needless. Wouldn't it had been great if this ALIEN Na'vi wouldn't even have genders at all, as one of their ALIEN characteristics? Just so becaus they are supposed to be an ALIEN race?And i'm happy you brough up DISTRICT 9, because in that movie, they did made an effort, and a sucessful one, at making the aliens look alien. And yet you couls still understand what they were feeling, and you could still empathise and sympathise withthem. i hate to admit it, but this year somebody outplayed James Cameron at his own game, and the proof is DISTRICT 9. i still like AVATAR, but i like DISTRICT 9 much better. I'll buy the D9 DVD, i doubt i'll buy AVATAR's. I'm sorry, but two newbies made two better SF movies then King Cameron, and they were Duncan Jones and Neill Blomkamp.
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...that of psychiatrists, and we trust our mental health to these people? Think about it.
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Once we see the marine with no legs, the avatar WITH legs and the evil corporation indulged in eco-rape (in the first few scenes) the rest of the (plot) cliches just fall into place. I know 1st year screenwriting students who could do better. One in fact suggested "If the planet is a brain we should hear it speak not act" another commented "the loops over the sacred site were too regular to be natural - why weren't they the remnants of a tech society that died like ours will and so be replaced by AI trees? - thus giving the end of the film a little hope for the humans - maybe show that this is already happening on Earth" - good, basic and missed points. The highest consensus point was that Sam Worthington's character should have died at the end - creating a god / goddess mind for pandora with the Sigourney soul as mother/virgin/guardian - then show that power flexing to protect the navi so the humans can see it from space. To (mis)quote star wars "The humans are easily frightened but they will soon return - and in greater numbers". Avatar 2 - nuking the blues from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
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during the avatar love scene,but i remember they bursted laughing in the mentioned D9 scene.
and i disagree with D9,the aliens didnt look like aliens,they looked more like cockroaches,the bad military soldier there even calls them like that.
You know whats alien ? something that doesnt have 2 legs and 2 legs,and a face.otherwise it will always remind our human appearance -
It's still afailure of the Marine coprs that they ever got this type of indivisduals in their midst. Since the Mariens are protectors of our society, it means they should be pretty careful to whom they chose as out protectors. And it's their responsability to screen those who would make for good protectors, and those who would be just psychos with guns. If they can't screen those unsavoury elements from belonging to the corps, then they failed in their task and mission as protectors. That is a BIG FAILURE. It's AN IMMENSE FAILURE.
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I just had a thought about where the story could go from here. Say Netriwhatever is pregnant with Jake Sully's baby. Because Jake's constitution is a genetic mishmash of human and Na'vi, the developing baby is wrong. And the planet, with it's inter-connectivity, begins to react against it as it develops, causing all sorts of strange behaviour in the animals and maybe some sort of illness in the people. N starts to get all sick and crazy. They try the group heal thing and it doesn't work - in fact, some of the Na'vi die in the process. Jake and N are thought to be a danger to the people and are sent out of the tribe. When it comes time for N to deliver the birth is gory and horrific and kills her in the process, and the resultant creature is clearly a monster with a special tap to Enya (or whatever the gaia is called, names elude me). Jake has been in touch with the remaining humans during his exile and he goes to them with the creature, all the while the environment churns up great catastrophe. The humans still on Pandora are in touch with scientists back home, and the greedy Company continues to orbit Pandora looking for another way in. They find out about monster baby and that it has a special link to the world and then the film becomes about them trying to get their hands on it while the world falls apart and Jake tries to protect it, knowing that it's destroying all that he has come to love. So, while the first film was about the white man saving a native peoples, the second would be about how for all the good intentions in the world, meddling is stuff that's not your business will always result in destruction and chaos and I think I had too much caffeine right now.
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...the more colossal dimwits here do actually erroneously equate capitalism with "oppression, exploitation and genocide" and are somehow incapable or unwilling to grasp any greater good that it provides.
To watch Avatar (which I haven't seen yet dammit), point to the screen and declare such behavior as the result of a political affiliation or economic system seems to me the result of shallow thinking. Avatar and countless other tales are timeless reminders that imperfect human beings in the cauldron of war and greed will forget their humanity. -
and he'll see you in 2021.
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saber12, there is actually a v.brief moment where you *do* see the Navi playing basketball!
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but, I thought it was just the scientists practicing in the Na'vi bodies?
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That's the point at least they kinda looked like coachroaches. In AVATAR, the Na'vi look a hell of a lot like humans, to the point of having teh same emotions, same display of emotions, and even the same facial expressions. The aliens in D9, in that regard, are a sucess. The Na'vi aliens, not so much. They are tall humans with a painjob. Don't take me wrong, i liked AVATAR, but i'm not blind to it's faults either. It's a 1000 times better then that Shit Trek movie, that's for sure. As i said before, a James Cameron failure is still far more interesting and better then the sucesses of all those hacks who have shitted movies this year, like the aformentioned Shit Trek, Terminator 4, GI Joe, Trasnfomers 2 and 2012. And i wouldn't evne classify AVATAR as a failure, more like a good but flawed movie, which makes it alone much much better then all those above mentioned shit movies combined.
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The whole point of the military excursion is to extract the unobtanium from the ground. Nuking it would make it disappear, or make it so radioactive as to be useless. Think for a goddamn second.
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No one laughed during the Navi love scene in my showing either. I thought it was pretty tasteful and innocent.
From the way Beaks and his "pal" Mike Russell described it you'd have expected that scene to be hilariously bad. Further confirms my suspicion that they're simply a couple of smug asswipes. -
saber12, yes correct. Wonder if they made the hoop higher?!
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Unfortunatly for capitalism supporters liek yourself, capitalism today has been highjacked and dominated by big corporations, which indeed act all almighty, inpunable, and are indeed ruining the world and make it worst, and they don't give back anything. Capitalism today is corporativism. The capitalism you defend no longer exists as such, it's a figure of the past.
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and if so, should we go investigate Stallone for what could be a "Sly" attempt at solidifying his career rejuvenation?
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Since the Navi (sully in particular) are the protagonists Cameron wants his audience to connect with them. They must be relatable to the audience.
Some amorphous blob with no hands feet etc won't cut it. -
With regards to your response to IronHelix.
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which is a combination of capitalism and communish,imho the best political system at our current point of human history,since capitalism does more damage than good if run uncontrolled and communism is practically impossible
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Most people are sociopaths??
Narcissists...you bet. Self absorbed...sure. emotional and intimacy issues...yes. But full on sociopaths? if most people were categorized as such this world would be far more fucked up than it already is. -
Dec 20, 2009 5:28:32 PM CST
oh, and i'm with those who said there wasn't any laughter
by jackknifed_juggernaut
during the love scene in my theater. until i came here, i didn't realize there was anything there which warranted a giggle in the first place. it seemed innocent enough to me.
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and decided there was nothing else she needed to do in film.
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I'm sorr,y but in my screening, some people laughed, and they were jsut the loudest of what everybody was feeling for the scene. And i'm afqaid, but while, as you well said, it was done tastefully, the scene itself is just beyond silly. It's an human with an alien. that looks like a cat. It's close to bestiality bu the fact the cat-like girl talks and walks on two legs.And that is another thing i can't help criticise about it. Because the girl is not alien enough. I mean, we all can call it a girl and not even bat an eyelid. To call an alien a girl. At least in Lifeforce, the Space Girl had her woman form as a diguise and as a way to trap humans by exploiting basic desires. The Na'vi are just full humans witrh just a few superficial changes. Even in the notion of a human/alien romance, it's pretty "safe". It's not alien.And this brings me to another point, why would even the Na'vi have genders? Or just two genders? Or romance interests?
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I went to, was when Jake comes into the tribal council, and he's stepping on tails, and stuff.
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There needs to be better screening. For instance, one of the guys involved with the torture case in Iraq had a serious domestic violence incident on his record before he joined the military. They, all potential recruits, should be screened for these issues, including for various other criminal and violent tendencies, including giving them lie dectector tests, but that said, a sociopath or a psychopath can pass such tests as they have no problem with lying. They have no moral conscience, and hence, it is easy for them to pass said tests with flying colors--this is a known fact. Besides, let's look at the CIA. Do you know that the most favored recruits they are looking for are sociopaths. I actually saw one of their documents saying just that. The reason? If they tell a sociopath to place a bomb on a passenger plane full of families, they are more than happy to do it. The problem for the CIA is this, they, sociopaths, tend to go off of the reservation, and start killing on their own, damn the missions, anybody is a good target, and as a result, the CIA has an annual mop- up operation where they send assassins to take these people out--again those who get out of control. I am not kidding about any of this, BTW. Why do I bring this up, the government wants people in their employ who don't question orders, ala young people, or those who are disturbed, because they need killers to advance their imperialistic agenda. If I was asked to blow-up a plane, I'd say no, like Jake, however, they want someone on the pay-roll who is more than happy to say yes!!!
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I have no problem with your characterization of the corporate monstrosities at large. But they are basically amoral.
Say what you will about capitalism...it grants the greatest number of the most diverse peoples the most freedom and prosperity ever enjoyed by human beings. This is just a fact.
And yes it is not perfect. Name one human construct that is. -
You can't become a psychiatrist with a PhD in psychology. Your friend is a psychologist. Interesting, though, how you gravitated towards a psychologist-in-training and are now spiteful towards her...did she psychoanalyze you?
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people only really laughed when stuff like that happened (i.e. the intentionally humorous scenes) that and when he was slapping those "sacred seeds"
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—The Box Office estimate for "Avatar" is at $232,180,000 worldwide.
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if the aliens in Avatar looked more...alien I don't think anybody would really buy the love story at all. Or the choice Jake makes to become one. Also I liked this film a lot, more than District 9
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It is as much fucked-up as it can get, short of an all out nuclear war, which is coming if we don't clean our shit-up!!! We can't even get real Universal Healthcare passed with the Public Option in place because the politicians want to help the greedy insurance companies rather than our families, or just poor or middle class people who need the help. We treat our veterans like crap, and give them fucked-up healthcare, and we are throwing families out of their homes at alarming rates. 18 million homes in the U.S. are vacant? We fire teachers, we fail to fund our schools properly, but A-Rod get hundreds of millions of dollars to hit a basball, which he misses most of the time, BTW? We have a revolving door in prisons and in jails for violent criminals, including murderers, rapists, child molesters and drunk drivers. Big companies are allowed to steal billions from average ordinary people, and very little is done to stop it, so it happens again, and again, and again? Lawfirms are in on the crimes; yes those that rep these companies are helping to plot the conspiracies...but they don't go to prison? As officers of the court, they are legally bound to stand-up to enforce the laws but they don't, and no one in authority bats an eye? Little girls and boys are being pimped out on the street, and yet their pimps get very little to no time in prison or jail if caught, and the same with their johns? That is the mark of a sociopathic society. So yes, I'd say most people are sociopaths.
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I guess that should shut up all the naysayers..That includes international grosses but doesn't include China,Japan,Italy, Poland, Argentina, and Uruguay..
I think this movie may out sell Titanic at this rate, afterall this film was made for repeat viewing.. -
Exit polling has it at 95% positive, RT community 90% not to be confused with RT critics, Yahoo users at A- with 8000 reviews.
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"Democracy is the worst form of government. Except for all the others." Winston Churchill
DoctorWho you and Winston are on the same page it seems! -
WOW! IMAX's speakers BEG for this kind of movie! Fuck! I've never felt a GOD DAMN SHOCKWAVE in a movie theater before!!!!
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Saw it tonight and thought it was the worst thing Cameron has ever made.
Awful performance from Worthington. Weaver telephones hers in.
Not once did I feel any tension, and yes, the story is f*cking FERN GULLY AND DANCES WITH WOLVES!!
3-D was fun for a while, but soon lost it's novelty. Same with the CGI - awesome initially, and then just...well, boring...
Also, Cameron releases a patronising, preachy enviromental awareness movie - made from money from a news group that has one of the biggest carbon footprints on the planet. How f*cking ironic is that?
Sorry, but I was really just hankering for a Darth Vader or Han Solo...and outta space! -
and that was in LIEMAX!
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I predicted $65-70 million on opening weekend: http://tinyurl.com/avpred
It's currently estimated at $73 million domestically and will probably break $80 million this weekend. I was a little too conservative...;-)
Surprisingly, international tallies are also in, and also as I predicted, the brunt of its take is overseas...a whopping $159 million! I was looking for a 60/40 international/domestic split, due to themes which could be construed as "anti-American" (and have been, if these Talkbacks are any indication)...the split is nearly 70/30 at this point. The simultaneous international release paid off in spades.
Anyone thinking this will bomb at this point is way off the mark..."break even" is the worst case scenario, if the $500 million overall budget is to be believed. Next week's dropoff will tell us what the eventual take will be (I'll stay pessimistic and predict %50-60...lotta story nitpicking with the typical moviegoer, I'm seeing)...I'm definitely reconsidering my $600 million "roof", though. -
Dec 20, 2009 6:03:40 PM CST
A psychitrist has an MD. A Psychologist is just a PhD
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Big honkin difference
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Is it the best movie I've ever seen, hell no, but was it the funnest? All signs thus far point to yes.
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...except to screen me as a sucker until I figured her out. When she couldn't use me anymore, because I started questioning her often suspect actions, she got a new sucker. I have a genius IQ, so I figured her out pretty fast, but, I forgave her for her shortcomings because of her many tragedies in life, something that she played-up on, I think, but if you are a kind person, you want to be tender to such a soul, and try to be fair, and so you intentionally overlook many things, their personal faults, knowing that most people are fucked-up, in one way or another, and so, you try to be forgiving and make lemonade out of lemons.
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Sherlock will make about 50 mil it's opening week, but Avatar will be well past 200 by that point. This is like Revenge of the Sith numbers.
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I've been there, too.
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My thoughts exactly!!! Either way, in two years, she will be advising people on their lives, and she is in dire need of help herself.
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I have spent the last year in shock, and when I thought it couldn't get any worse, I learned something else about her that made it much more tragic for me.
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Well, deep thinking aside from how to more efficiantly kill more people anyway. They are pretty brainwashed and come across just as ignorant as Ironhelix.How do I know this? Two good friends of mine in high school joined the Marines. They went in pretty decent guys just wanting to matter and get some adventure. This was during peacetime by the way.They both came back TOTAL FUCKING ASSHOLES! I mean, we're talking real pieces of shit. All they could talk about was raping women and killing. It was ridiculous, like some kind of cartoon character. These two didn't serve together and didn't even know each other, yet they both came out exactly the same.I've also had conversations with Marines. They weren't as audacious as my friends because we didn't know each other, but they clearly enjoyed the prospect of ending lives and they have ALL been very ethnocentric.A "good Marine", knows what the Corps has told them and not a single thing more. They hate gays, they hate women and they hate anything that isn't American. Or at least they think anything that isn't American is stupid.I'm sure this all makes them more efficient killers, so I suppose it's necessary. In so far as any war has really been "necessary" since WWII. I just don't want to spend my free time listening to their retarded drivel.
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Scott and Philips both liked it. Haters, Michael Bay called, he said he was thinking about adding a story to the Transformers franchise, starting with the 3rd film. He's looking for ideas.
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Lions and tigers are "amoral" too...I don't think you want them playing with your children. An animal wants to fill its belly with digestible matter, a corporation wants to fill its bottom line with profits. Depending on the animal or corporation, the approach can be either benign or malignant (as shown in AVATAR). So really, saying "capitalism is amoral" doesn't really say much of anything at all...
Not that there's such a thing as a 100% capitalist nation anyway. The US tried that in the 19th century, and it was actually a Republican (Teddy Roosevelt) who had to put a stop to that system...it was too ruthless.
Really, all existing economies are a blend of capitalism and socialization, some less, some more, but the blend is always there.
And what's it going to say about capitalism when the world's largest economy becomes the People's Republic of China sometime around 2020? -
if Jake Skully would have humped a Horta. *heavy sigh*
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for all you Yiff'ers
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we'd have riots in the streets?
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Why do you say that?
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She doesn't know the difference between the words "to" and "too", but she has a masters degree and is a school teacher? They are just giving those degrees away to anyone who can afford to buy them.
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Avatars opening numbers seem pretty reasonable to me, pop over to
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2009&wknd=51
to see for yourself. It's well on its way to making its money back.
I personally loved it, the story was good, the dialogue was spot one and the 3-d was amazing.
For all those people who think the movie is derivative I'd like to oint out that their only about 7 plots, and imho this one manages to weave a enough interesting ideas into it to keep it fresh.
In fact the Story was compelling enough for me to forget the stunning visuals for a while which is no mean feat given the beauty and splendour of the movie.
Theres an old Roman saying that comes to mind when discussing movies. De gustibus non est disputandum. - "In matters of taste there is no dispute." -
and set up for murder.
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so its a bit illogical to insist that the D9 prawns looked more alien because they resembled cockroaches.
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playing MW2.jesus.
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...there's a theory that most psychologists and psychiatrists are drawn to that field because they subconsciously want to cure themselves. There's truth to that.
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I know responding to your post is akin to running head first into a brick wall...but here it goes.
Without delving into the specifics of the litany of problems you listed I will say this...you could easily add another 20 more to that list.
And certainly you have the imagination to know that things could get far, far worse.
That being said, can you now list how these and other problems which are successfully overcome or navigated everyday by the human race? I venture to say you can't because you don't see it. You are a full-blown nihilist by the sound of it.
Just because you don't see it in the news doesn't mean good work is not being done out there. The amount of humanitarian, volunteer and charitable effort by people under you radar would surprise you. This doesn't address the institutional corruption you mentioned but it does counter the claim of a world of sociopaths.
Humans for most of their history have lived in societies characterized by tribalism, clannishness, and domination by some sort of 'elite' that monopolizes force or resources. It has taken the work of centuries to create the sort of societies we see in the West today. Respect for individual rights is encoded in consensual governments that reflect the will of the citizens... Societies that approach the problems of living and governing through rational procedure, discussion, and law etc.
These things do not generally come about through the efforts of sociopaths,
Again, Is it perfect NO. Life is suffering. Always has been. To live is to die. Only human evolution will lead to progress in these areas. No legislation or system will do it. As long as it has taken us to get where we are now...it will take just as long to take the next baby step forward.
Want to make a real difference in this world? Go feed the homeless. Be a foster parent. Volunteer your time at a children's hospital. Hell, just hold the elevator door for somebody. It's the little things that change the world. -
And mine with be a White Vader. He will walk around and do my shopping and roll up spliffs for me.
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..."top critic" rating in the 90s. 232 million worldwide as of Sunday *morning*. I saw it twice in an Imax that seats 600 people, and both times it got a standing ovation...
Haters, the line to suck Cameron's balls is forming to the left... -
We need some witty one line posts going on in this TB.People are starting to use something that the Online Dictionary calls 'Paragraphs' and i've also seen someone use foreign sounding words like 'nihilist' which i thought was one of the Darths in those Star Wars games.This is troubling.
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There was a Darth named that in Knights of the Old Republic II.
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Sorry if that was unclear. My point was corporations are amoral. They will do whatever it will take to gain profit. Funny, I was going to use the analogy of a shark feeding...you obviously get my point. People classify corporations as evil. I see them as mindless feeding machines.
However. I am a big Ayn Rand fan. Pure capitalism looks great on paper but it takes people of character and ethics engaged in that system not to steamroll the 'little guy'.
I'm enough of a realist and student of human nature to know that just ain't going to happen.
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"He will walk around and do my shopping and roll up spliffs for me."
LOL. That is quite a visual. -
Why won't the defeated humans just come back with more firepower? They're banished and it's like "Well, they learned their lesson..." If they fear the planet fighting back again, why not drop bombs from 30,000 feet?
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Dec 20, 2009 6:53:31 PM CST
The opening music w/the lone little boy voice reminded me of...
by zombieheathledger
The FLOWERS IN THE ATTIC theme.
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Sequel!!!
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So fucking great. I really truly love this movie. Its fun, exhilarating, peaceful, exciting, and beautiful. Fucking trippy as hell too. A new Stoner go to for sure. I love Neytiri.
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I'm glad you enjoyed it.. I read your other posts on different talkback and see you actually enjoyed..This will only gain momentum in the weeks to come and have a lot of repeat business..
I also threw in a small apology on other post for the trolling remark.. seems I was a little harsh... but what the fuck it's all in the brevity of the talkback.
I will add that at least you are of sound mind and intellect. -
like the ones above in this talkback,is,imho,one more small proof of this movie's greatness.
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They never said it left. The humans could keep coming back and wasting the Navi left and right.
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and it's almost an hour shorter
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It's the only way to be sure.
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incostincecies,unbalanced tone,not enough character exposition,non-existent verisimilitude,a lot of stereotypes,cliche messages and too much stylization.
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Dec 20, 2009 7:28:45 PM CST
Some human characters are all the same as in ALIENS
by zombieheathledger
Giovanni Ribisi is Burke, the company man. Michelle Rodriguez is Vasquez. Sigourney is Ripley-lite. Worthington is Riggs. The guy with the scratch marks on his head is the black sargeant. It's like Cameron only knows how to write these character archtypes.
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he even talked with JC about this three times,but eventually JC decided not to take him,because the movie would look more like a repeat of Aliens.wise choice of him.
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Dec 20, 2009 7:35:59 PM CST
Quaritch: I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.
by ominus
It's the only way to be sure.
Selfridge:Ho-ho-hold on, hold on one second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it.
Quaritch:They can *bill* me
Joker: Look at his scars man,look at him.They are worse than mine.Do what he says.Nuke them. -
Back at ya with the apologies...it was good, and I'm glad I saw it. All the best, have a great holiday.
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Was anybody else reminded of the sergeant putting a cigar in his mouth upon waking up, when Sigourney's character asked for cigarettes? I'm not saying, "I didn't like this scene because it was derivative." It's just an idle question.
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District 9 is a far more poignant and genuinely moving work. It's also got a story that (as far as I'm aware) hasn't been ripped so blatantly from other contemporary films. I'm sorry Jim, but Avatar is a visual feast, but as useful to enviromental campaigning as the millions of Na'vi Big Mac cartons littering our streets.
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god i would love to have Paxton as a Navi-Avatar in a sequel.
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Dec 20, 2009 7:44:05 PM CST
D9 riddled with more plot holes than Avatar. FACT!!
by jackknifed_juggernaut
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and a hundred other prisoner camp movies.oh well.
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a movie with tons of wasted potential. Could have been a really profound experience but it felt rather empty to me. I still haven't seen Avatar but District 9 was one of the biggest disappointments of the year.
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but it was a very flawed movie.fact.
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Dec 20, 2009 7:52:51 PM CST
you all want to talk about a movie that beats you over
by jackknifed_juggernaut
the head repeatedly with a blunt allegory/message, look no further than District 9. and you're exactly right, ominus... D9 is a WHOLLY original work that didn't crib from ANY outside source. *eye roll*
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...besides Anti-Alien bigotry - but otherwise, totally different stories. Sharlto Copley p*sses all over the Avatar cast when it comes to a captivating performance. Was Worthington on Na'vi mushrooms? He was awful...really f*ckin bad.
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Anyone who is complaining about the performances is seriously off on this film. Worthington and Saldana easily gave the most believable CGI performances to date, and Saldana was especially an absolute wonder to watch in that role. It could have came off as very silly but her character was amazing. Even in human form Worthington did a fantastic job. The only complaint to be had is his constant switching of accents...and I personally thought that added to his charm. The story was simple but well told and hit all the right emotions.
The thing that most people are missing here is the visuals are what added so much emotion to this story. The interactions between Jake and Pandora and Jake and Neytiri added more emotion and character development then any dialogue could ever do. CGI has never been used as beautifully as it has here...anyone who didn't catch on to that clearly needs everything spelled out for them to understand it. Sucks for them, Avatar was full of more beautiful moments then just about any blockbuster this year.
And sorry haters, Avatar is already a success. It's already made 260 million around the world, and expect word of mouth on this thing to be big. Critics and audiences alike love this film. It got a huge applause after my packed out viewing, and it's obvious that looking at IMDB with a rating of 8.9 and a spot in the IMDB Top 50, audiences are loving it. This is a fantastic movie and a fantastic experience. Just like SW and Jurassic Park it WILL be forever looked back upon with marvel and admiration. James Cameron officially 7 for 7, and bring the fuck on Avatar 2! -
different measures for the same situations.oh well.and Sam was fucking great,provided you do understand what his character was about and how his acting was going to bring this in the big screen.
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hmf.
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Cameron did in one take and didn't care about. If it wasn't FX driven it took a back seat. Story, real acting(not the acting of a CG character), score. All these things fall short. People think it is ridiculous to nitpick this movie but we are looking at the work of a director who is concerned with the way the CG smoke looks as it swirls through the helicopter blades. Now I have a great admiration for that attention to detail but you don't get to pick and choose which aspects you are going to be insanely attentive to. In the end, if great attention is going to be paid over here then I expect that same attention over there. I really enjoyed the movie but at that level its like you built a Ferrari with flat story..er..I mean tires.
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and then Avatar 2.please mr Cameron,please.
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I'll probably end up seeing it just to see the technology he created for this movie. But honestly, Jim Cameron's lack of story-telling ability is getting tiresome.
He subscribes to an old worldview of corporations running everything... even as we're watching the gov't become a corporation right now by taking over companies. He ignores religion, even as in reality, religion is expanding all over the world. He can't conceive on any real villain aside from imperialism, greedy companies or evil military forces. (Not to say greedy folks and evil armies don't exist, and aren't wrong. But really, do they have to be the villains every time? This is just lazy writing, when I expect better from Cameron.) But perhaps he's no longer able to tell more original stories. Perhaps he doesn't want to grow as a person and expand his horizons intellectually. Who knows.
What I'm most surprised by, is this: in 2009, the military is spending tons to help injured soldiers come back to duty, even when they're missing limbs. But Cameron is telling us, in an enlightened, humane, humanistic future, however many decades away, that the military won't spend money on a Marine who's lost his legs? C'mon, Cameron, you can tell the story better than this. -
It is better than Abyss and good as T2. The Aybss really veers into weird territory by the end of the movie, while this picks up at the end of the movie.
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What a douchey header. Like we've all been waiting around for your review.
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from the film,that JC tried very hard to beat Bay in the visuals and surpass the awesome SFX of TF2,ignoring the artistic elements of his film.And that was a stupid thing,since Bay is the king of VFX,you dont fuck with him.right?
'Arnie voice': WRONG -
Why would a committed enviromentalist smoke a manufactured cigarette - billowing more chemicals in the air? Bit irresponsible for a kiddie flick too...
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was when Dicaprio and Kate Winslett are holding on real tight and they say "I'll never let go, Jack." ....oh wait....
Wrong GAY movie. -
really hurt it. We never really got to know anyone outside of four or so characters.
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Dec 20, 2009 8:41:20 PM CST
Our planet, ecology and animal life are each retarded by compari
by purityofessence
Our planet, ecology and animal life are each retarded by comparison. Here – every Na’vi is born with a biological version of firewire – which allows them to plug and play with their fellow wildlife – but also their trees.
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Is this not the creepiest shit in the movie? At which point they start going around rubbing their ponytails on any and everything in the jungle. Cameron is such a pervert. He is probably rubbing his junk on a ficus right now. Sick bastard.
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It's obvious tons of audience members and critics thought the story was perfectly serviceable, full of characters we cared for, an affecting love story, and classic Cameron story structure.
And considering a majority of the movie was FX based, to say the anything FX driven took a back seat is a minor complaint. Avatar will get the Best Picture nomination it deserves. -
Our planet, ecology and animal life are each retarded by comparison.
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Have a Merry Christmas everybody ..
That includes the AVATAR haters too. One thing is for sure this film got people talking..I think it may be on the way to being the B.O. champ at least for this decade..P.O.E. -
Have to say I loved it ... the "baddie" wasn't that great .. movie was formula, characters were ok but I loved this film.
I have never seen anything with such visual depth. The detail was off the scale.
IMHO Cameron made an experience not a movie. -
Macready, do you only watch G-rated movies? That "don't play with it or you'll go blind" line was pretty tame. You're reaching now....
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You have to be a very mean, awful, terrible, miserable person to not like this movie.
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have been fucked...and I liked it. Just saw the film. Truly a feast for the eyes as well as the spirit. I cannot imagine NOT seeing this movie in 3D. The depth was incredible, and not gimmicky. Without a doubt, the best film I have seen all year.
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Dec 20, 2009 9:07:23 PM CST
I guess I stand corrected on how much $$ this will make.
by ganymede3001
232 worldwide opening is fucking amazing. I'm done predicting what this movie will do. One thing is for sure, the audiences overseas like it even more than we do.
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WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING IN '09'!!!!
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must be awesome because they don't have the Avatar baggage that most people have on this site. The experience must be awesome for them. My friend who barely new about Avatar kept saying wow.
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...back to back, to back. Avatar and its sequels should have been filmed as one long movie. It would have saved cash, the films would all be in the can, and all Cameron and the studio would have to think about now is editing and finishing effects.
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what are you talking about?
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If this movie is a liberal rant, please explain to me why Matt Fucking Drudge has been shilling for it for weeks now.
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Dec 20, 2009 9:29:40 PM CST
It was a mistake to make the Na'vi so much like indians
by zombieheathledger
why would they hoot and holler like indians? This shows a complete lack of imagination when it came to them on Cameron's part.
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Avatar had the makings of a great movie, except for:
1. Some clunky dialogue - if this was in the makings for ten years, perhaps Cameron should have had another scriptwriter go over it.
2. Derivative plot - Dances with Wolves plus a 90's episode of the Outer Limits.
3. Ripped off Design - Anyone hear ever see any of Roger Dean's artwork? This movie blatantly rips off Roger Dean. He's the guy who did alot of the artwork for various Yes albums.
http://io9.com/5426120/did-prog-rocks-greatest-artist-inspire-avatar-all-signs-point-to-yes/gallery/
http://sfae.com/index.php?action=gallery&status=show_artist&ID=4 -
And it's a simple as that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. A few years back, what brought so many of you people joy was to go out, fall plum fucking in love with a really entertaining movie or television show, immerse yourself in the world the writers and / or directer created, think about it, talk about it with your friends, and make new friends who share that common interest. And this wasn't just true for the real A+++ shit either. You like what you like, and maybe you liked that Starship Troopers was a little goofy. Maybe you really dug Robocop's dark humor. And hell. We all know that when you strip it of the GROUNDBREAKING motion control effects, fucking STAR WARS was nothing more than a formulaic B-movie. But it still spoke to you. It had HEART.
Not. Any. Fucking. More.
I'd love to see what some of you cankerous fucking cocksmiths would say about the motherfucking SEARCHERS if it came out today. I have no doubt that you'd hate it. You want to hate. Everything. Because that's what's fun for you. What REALLY brings you joy in life is to feel like you're one of the special people who's above it all. You get more pleasure from reflexively hating a movie, YEARS before it comes out even, than you do from planting your ass in a chair for a couple hours and watching the motherfucking colors fly by.
What a sad, pathetic, lonely, joyless existence that must be. But hey, you like what you like, and you like hating everything. So who am I to judge.
Fuck that. Avatar is an objectively spectacular movie going experience -- in all likelihood, it's probably THE MOST enjoyable cinema event to have happened in your shitty little lifetime. And for the love of Christ, please stop jibberjabbering about how BUT IT WASN'T AS DEEP AS (insert name of movie you saw when you were 12 here). Has it occurred to you that you though GHOSTBUSTERS had a "tighter" story because you were a motherfucking child when you first saw it? Just stop. Your bullshit is beneath you. If you really didn't like this movie, or if it brings you more pleasure to sit at a keyboard and spew baby shit about how the characters were "too 1 dimensional," or that it was "too derivative," then you are a joyless oozing pustule on anus of society. You are broken inside. You have failed to experience life to the fullest.
Have fun with that. -
...but it's a massive step forward in terms of telling stories of this kind.
What Avatar does and does well, with its non-ambitious story, is clothe that story with a photo real world of such clarity that the distinction between effect and reality is erased.
I saw this movie in 2-D, and I have to say that even with that, the images registered as optically real. This may be a product of producing this movie for 3-D, and if so, that should become a standard in this kind of movie making. The level of detail just takes things out of this world.
And the story? While I'm not too harsh on people who try telling complex stories and fall a little short, this movie succeeds brilliantly in telling a relatively simple story. But so did Star Wars, did it not? Wasn't too complicated, but the way it was told revolutionized the film industry. I think this movie will do the same for the next decade. This movie will be influential.
A final word on visuals: The truth of the matter is, films tell stories visually. To critique them apart from story in a movie, as if there were some divide is like judging a person's looks with an X-Ray. You only see their bones, and while bones may be a start, they are not the whole thing. The story I saw was relatively well constructed, and I liked how some of the major plot point concerns that I had (namely the problem of how they could get away with operating the Avatarsin the end battle, despite the fact that they were operating from a human base) Were answered rather well. The story wasn't shoddily constructed. It wasn't terribly original, but the visuals, sounds, and music give it a kind of originality and unique perspective that distinguishes it among other works. -
I thought the Na'vi were just a little bit too human and one of maybe two moments in the entire film that made me cringe was the big hairy closeup of Neytiri SHEDDING A FUCKING TEAR (the other was when they all started to sing)
I have no problem with anthropomorphising aliens - even D9 did it - there's an article somewhere I read where Blomkamp was constantly telling the animators to make the Prauns' eyes bigger and prominent - especially the kid's - and they didn't fully understand why until they saw the final product - the eyes allowed you to EMPATHISE with the characters...
if someone really wants me to I'll have a look for it - I think it was on io9
anyway I think Cameron crossed the line a couple times with his Aliens and I agree the romance didn't really have to feature for the story to still work - in fact I was much more interested in the development of the relationship between Sully and the head warrior - Neytiri's betroathed - but that character seemed to turn on a dime when Sully rode in on that red dragon...
I think Cameron put the romance in because of Titanic, pure and simple - and it's interesting you mention James Horner-
there's an interview here-
http://shrunklink.com/duyi
-with Horner where he says Cameron originally thought Titanic "should have the same solemnity as Schindler's List" but he convinced him to focus on the love story and sprang Celine Dion on him at the last minute - the Box Office, the Charts and the Oscars all rewarded Horner's instinct AND SO...
Once again, Cameron "had to get used to the idea because Avatar is not a love story. (he) had to talk him into it (and) ended up writing a song for the end of the film for much the same reason (he) wrote one for Titanic." -
you tell 'em, hippie_killer. Avatar is fucking brilliant.
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I agree with every single word of urs Harry
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I fed the homeless on Thanksgiving, I say please and thank you at the store, or at a restaurant. I talked a girl out of committing suicide. I do my part. Yes, I acknowledged in what I wrote in my earlier post that good people do exist, but I added that most people are sociopaths. When you quietly sit by and allow the greater good sour in the face of a greater evil, then something is wrong. On 60 Minutes tonight, they talked of all these people losing their jobs and their homes. If every bllionaire or millionaire in this country simply adopted a state or a city and set-up a system to give people grants to pay for their healthcare, their mortgages, or to just pay their bills, or buy food, to save our schools, teaching jobs, police positions, and fire department jobs, etc., we could be doing so much better. I see sports stars, rockstars, captains of industry, rich politicians, and Hollywood stars not doing all they can to help, they'd rather put a million dollars down on a wedding, or 20 million on a yacht, than to place that money down on a homeless shelter, or to save jobs in a school district, or hospitals? That is just wrong, and the reason why our society is rougher and crueler than it needs to be. The poor and the middle class are doing their part to help, they are the life's blood of this nation, but when 2 percent of the people get most of the wealth and don't share it, and at a time of crisis in this nation, especially, that is perverse!!! Instead, they wouldf rather put more people out of jobs, and steal more of their homes, or watch as they are stollen, that is just inhuman and evil, and that is sociopathic.
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I'm just fuckin around but really.. i dont wanna sit next to a 10year old and his dad and hear about playing with yourself. The line just set an odd tone, and yes this was my first venture outside of the G rating. Mommy wouldn't let me see The Incredibles cause i wasn't old enough yet. The only reason she took me to see Avatar was cause of the mind blowing 3D and I promised I'ld clean my room.
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it can only mean Battle Angel Alita is full on go!!!
And it seems Cameron is writing it himself. I don't know why people wanted Avatar to fail. -
Wait I'm Orionsangels! d'oh!
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I didn't hate Avatar's script. I actually like it's simplistic tale. But I'd be more comfortable with someone else writing Battle Angel Alita.
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When Quaritch busts open the door to fire at the fleeing gunship he has to hold his breath because of the poison atmosphere. When another soldier puts an O2 mask on him he holds his breath, no exhale, and then inhales. He would've held his breath outside and not been exhaling while he fired b/c he would've needed his breath to run back inside to grab a mask.
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...what's the next big thing the AICN community will obsess over in the coming years? What's on the horizon? What will give this community purpose for the next year or two?
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defending the ultimate hippie movie. Your opinion is useless.
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They are also attracted to other people's problems as voyeurs into the lives of their patients, I think there is some god complex in that for them...and their pay-off is in having that kind of power over the weak. And in the case of the girl that I was involved with, I truly think she got involved with that profession so that she could better learn how to manipulate people, and play psyche games with them. If you have that kind of training, it is like an adult playing with a small child...at the game of chess, but when you are the only one who knows all the rules, you win every time. Her problem with me, well, was this, I always thought about studying psychology, so I understood some of her manipulations and when I called her on it, point for point, it was like catching a con man, or con woman, in this case--with her hand fully extended in the cookie jar. Someone who is running a con doesn't like it when their victim tells them, "I caught you, but I forgive you." They'd rather move on to someone else who doesn't know there is a con being run. And sometimes, ignorance can be your doom...but sometimes it can be you bliss. It is a fine line.
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Holy shit, and I thought the talkbacker complaining about the "lame" scar explanation was an insufferable nitpicker.
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Preach it, brother.
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cigarettes in 2154? Come-on. Aliens had that too. 38 states are now smoke free except for casinos, cigar shops/bars and home offices. Aliens I'll let slip because that was 25 years ago and Apone without a cigar is like a bank without money.
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How come you didn't mention this Harry? I told everyone from day one that WETA's work was lackluster at best. No wonder the movie looks so much better than the fist trailer did. Jim Cameron must of been reading our posts LOL.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10419046-52.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0 -
Dec 20, 2009 10:22:38 PM CST
see, class, now we've reached the "nit-picking" phase of
by jackknifed_juggernaut
"Socio-Cognitive Haterology," characterized by individuals criticizing infinitesimal instances and nuances in a film that is (a) of zero relevance to its overall plot or quality, and (b) was noticed by all of seven people.
oddly enough, class, the natural habitat of said seven people is on AICN. studies show they subsist on Rice Krispie Treats and Tang. -
This movie is the perfect storm of liberal propaganda. You have the Weeping Indian / Noble Savage story in perfect balance with all of nature (even though native Americans hunted SEVERAL large species of animal to extinction before White Devil came), then there's the environmentalist Gaian religion (the only acceptable religion for American whites), the evil white man with his evil guns and money and capitalism who wants to use its mean Army men to blow up trees and kill the whales, the destruction of the rain forest, and finally a little jab at the American healthcare system on top of that.
Its almost like it was written by a computer who's got a story formula of things guaranteed to make liberals ejaculate and combined them.
For the rest of us with a brain, it lacked any and all subtlety. Do I think evil sociopathic corporations exploiting natives are bad? Yes. Do I think we should preserve nature? Yes. But don't beat me over the head with every left-wing activist talking point like I'm fucking five years old. One thing I hate more than liberal-socialist fuck tards and neocon assclowns are people who treat me like I'm a child. -
Dec 20, 2009 10:23:17 PM CST
People post "mistakes" like that over IMDB all the time
by zombieheathledger
Sorry to upset your delicate sensiblities with a minor observation. You and Mattman should go bowling, prick.
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is from all the Na'vi/cat piss?
And wouldn't everything sound different too? And wouldn't fire burn differently or not at all?
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are weak then your not specific enough but then if you start pointing out specific things your called out for nit picking. This shit is great. these TB's are more entertaining than the fucking movie. I love you all.
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I only live like 5 mins from it..All sold out for the evening..I wasn't even pissed off..I just had a smile and walked away..People are lovin this film and from the crowd that was getting turned away from the lie MAX was walking right in to the non IMAX theaters anyway..I want to tell everybody if you have an IMAX or Lie Max within 20 0r 30 miles from you don't think twice pay the upcharge.. you won't regret it. This will make a HUGE difference in the quality of the experience..I'm not shilling for Imax..it's just the truth..
This thing is going to get any James Cameron film made now and that is great because of a few things...Battle Angel Alita..The three arc story for Forbidden Planet..and any fucking thing JIm Cameron chooses to make..
Great news for film fans -
people actually wanted to go to.
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I've actually worked with several psychologists-in-training...it's a field made up mostly of women...and as a group they are very neurotic (slightly more neurotic than your average woman) and love to gossip and label other girls, and people in general, as "crazy",...rather than having compassion for those considered mentally ill, they often revel in it to feel better about themselves. They are many exceptions to this, yet, not nearly enough for those filling up that profession which should be built on compassion for those considered weird or different.
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my next obsession is Captain America. I love it and there is no way they will do it justice so it is win win. I can anticipate glory and tear it apart when it fails. I just got a semi.
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Dec 20, 2009 10:36:09 PM CST
only when you admit "You Complete Me" wasn't spawned by
by jackknifed_juggernaut
TDK, pal. ;)
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Wow, a "committed environmentalist" like Grace smoking a cigarette is a "mistake" on Cameron's part and not in her "character"?
So it's impossible to consider the option that perhaps it's merely a device to show that Grace is rather unorthodox and flawed in her methods and, oh I don't know, fucking HUMAN?
Also, I love the "Cameron needed to show a ravaged Earth" and "we needed to see Sully's life back home" whining. Why don't you clamor for a prequel while you're at it? This is truly a malaise of the age, where nothing can be hinted at or left to one's imagination. If it ain't on screen, it doesn't exist. You're a bunch of simplistic, drooling fucktards who demand everything on a narrative silver platter. If you don't get it, you slam it in the mistaken notion that it makes you seem clever. Well, it doesn't. It makes you look like a sniveling, nitpicking, reflexively cynical tool with no imagination, or sense of wonder.
I think what an earlier talkbacker said is right: we now know exactly what talkbacks would have looked like if they were around back in 1977. The true nature of the nitpicking hater has been laid bare by Avatar once and for all. We'll see the same thing all over again for The Hobbit and every other genre project that comes down the pike with even the slightest bit of vision or scope. -
Fucking Shame..a pitiful shame
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From Gilliam's mouth a few days ago. That's the next thing I'm looking forward to...after The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus...but apart from that...there's nothing really grabbing my attention...
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Dec 20, 2009 10:46:27 PM CST
really, MacReady452? the fact a character inhales when
by jackknifed_juggernaut
he should've exhaled (or vice versa) is a serious critique of this (or any) film? wow. please let me know which magical, perfectly goof-free films *you* apparently view, because i'd certainly love to see how it should be done.
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The mass public is definitely embracing Avatar... But has there ever been a more 1990's-feeling screenplay? Yeah, the conscious planet idea has been popularized in the last few years, but Cameron's apparent disgust with the human race is a little scary.
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what a fucking logistical nightmare. Gilliam's passion for the project is amazing. Watching him doodle the little cartoons and day dream about it and then have it all fall apart was heart breaking. The fact that it is back on track in any form is astounding. It already has my money.
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the mercs. :(
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me, the lengthy in-depth exposition at the beginning, and the lack of fleshing out other Na'vi other than Neytiri, but, I suppose they have to explain everything as the general population is moronic, and there wasn't enough time for secondary character development; perhaps, for extended scenes on the disc?
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Well, your "observation" only makes sense if it:
a) was an actual flub on Cameron's part
b) was not in keeping with Quaritch's character.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that "a" isn't an option. As for Quaritch's character, this is a guy who fucking STRAPPED HIMSELF INTO BATTLE armor rather than grab a mask and parachute while his air transport was crashing to the ground. Not only that, he did WHILE ON FIRE. Does that sound like someone who has a contingency plan based on his personal well-being beyond staying alive long enough to kick some ass?
Jesus... -
It's also directed at MacReady452.
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your talking to the wrong guy there son. Pump your breaks, check yourself, take a chill pill, relax dont do it, mellow out. Pick one and do it. I believe ZombieHeathLedger is the droid you are looking for.
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It's an open forum on a movie geek site. If you think you're too high brow to discuss minutae that may or may not be interesting to look for the next time you watch it (which for me has been twice now) then please feel free to post your dimestore sociological dissertations for the 'class' over at whogivesafuckwhatyouthink.com I'm gonna continue to post my observations and if you don't like it, tough shit. You want to waste time and energy writing back smartass rebuttals and being a contrarian douche? Go ahead. Like I said, it's an open forum. But don't expect me to give a fuck about what you think enough to stop.
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Dec 20, 2009 10:54:14 PM CST
Ganymede3001 you have no idea what you are talking about
by slappy jones
Seriously ILM did some shots yes. It is standard practice to farm out shots to other companies when you are working on big movies like this. They didn't step in to save Weta you moron. Smaller shots get farmed out when the main company is too busy. Go look at the credits to nearly every major effects movie and you will see more then one company get credited due to what is called farming.
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Dec 20, 2009 10:55:27 PM CST
I laughed during my screening because the film is TERRIBLE
by slappy jones
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what the fuck are you guys talking about. i didn't say anything about the fucking breathing. fucking mass hysteria on here. btw I fucking loved when Lang was on fire strapping into the armor. that shit was hard.
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out in the US? Also looking forward to The Secret of Kells.
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because he was severly retarded.
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these guys are clearly fuckin retarded. in response to your comment....i thought he just didn't give a fuck at all. he put the whole room in danger by breaking the air lock. he didn't care about himself or anyone else.
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1- That documentary took five years off my life. I work with long term projects and I can't face the shitstorm that is that movie.2- It gave America the definition of "sfiga"..."the absence of all things pussy". In other words, if pussy is the greatest good in the world, then "the absence of all things pussy" is the greatest evil. Figa = pussy, Sfiga = absence of pussy.You have to love Italians.
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Dec 20, 2009 11:02:22 PM CST
no, MacReady452, you're the droid i was looking for...
by jackknifed_juggernaut
you know, the one who co-signed Zombie's reply to my, erm "observation." so my breaks will proceed un-pumped, good sir.
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I haven't experienced a movie like this for a long, long time. When the movie ended and the credits started to roll, I didn't want to leave. I wanted to continue LIVING in James Cameron's world. The special effects and the 3D were simply amazing. The character's were fantastic, especially Neytari. She stole the show, and that's saying a lot seeing as she's all CGI. The facial expressions on these characters were just so realistic. That's something I've never seen before from any other CGI toon, except for maybe Golum, but that doesn't hold up to the quality of these toons. If you turned off all the audio in this film, you'd still know exactly what was happening just by watching their facial expressions along with their ears and tail. I thought that was real cool. The acting, dialog, and yes - even the plot, were all top notch. Not to mention Horner's score. That was just the icing on the cake.
I tip my hat to Mr. Cameron and can't wait to see what he's got in store for us next! (Battle Angel I believe?) -
I've been posting at this site for over ten years now, I never let self-important, overly contrarian douchebags ruin my fun then, and I'm certainly not going to let you idiots ruin it now. You don't like somebody's post? Don't respond. Save the negativity. After all, who the fuck asked you? The irony here is I bet you all check for what I'm talking about the next time you watch that scene, lol.
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are you talking about the nit picking vs over all problems comment? i guess if you wanna take that personal you can but you don't hold the patent on complaining about nit picking, and you certainly weren't the first person to call out nit pickers. I think there is a wheel that needs reinventing or some bread that needs slicing somewhere.
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I may have mixed the two of you up for a moment, but my position regarding the both of you and your nitpicking makes you interchangeable.
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...check for what I'm talking about"
Oh, you bet I will. After which I'll think to myself, "Jesus, he really is a joyless, nitpicking zero." -
...Don't respond."
I thought you said you'd been here for ten years. -
you and the turd i just dropped are interchangeable. way to justify your mistake. why don't we all say we loved it and not have any discussion at all. the movie had flaws you blind ass hat.
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It really is James Cameron's STAR WARS. I went in expecting a quasi-SF action/adventure movie that would resonate with mythic overtones of the tried and true "hero's journey", and that's what I got -- in spades. I was expecting extreme realism only in terms of FX, not in terms of dialogue or character; I expected something a little more stylized and archetypal here. The plot, in essence, is very familiar, but it's a sturdy framework, and Cameron animates it powerfully with the epic splendor of Pandora and its inhabitants. The end result is unlike anything I've ever seen in the theater. I was completely immersed. It was, without doubt, the greatest movie going experience of my adult life.
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Nobody's arguing that Avatar is flawless. You and ZomHL's complaints are utterly inane, however. And yes, interchangeable.
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First, Star Wars never shows anyone die. We get the hint evil things are going on but we never see them. Also, the aliens in Star Wars aren't really aliens. They're just cool background people.
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Dec 20, 2009 11:32:51 PM CST
yeah, not sure where this talk of Avatar being flawless
by jackknifed_juggernaut
is coming from... my comment above was merely highlighting the fact that ZHL was nit-picking--and yes, he was nit-picking--a continuity error (if you can even call it that) that is empty and pointless. true, there are flaws to be found in Cameron's work... but inhaling v exhaling isn't it, guy.
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So you like how Cameron set up the masturbation jokes with the "..go blind.." line? The fact is that the whole ponytail jack idea would have been, just accepted, if Cameron hadn't made a juvenile reference to it. Go ahead and giggle like a 12 year old girl at that line. The fact is that it cheapened the whole concept. You wanna appreciate the subtlety of the film, well then you also have to appreciate the way it subtly is ruined by this kind of shit. Please go on back through the whole TB and tell me about my other inane criticisms. NO? right. your opinion is more valid than mine. fuck you asshole.
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...that so many people here that have been bitching about how awful it is for months and months STILL had to go see it for themselves? I mean, I knew, without a viewing, that New Moon was not my cup of tea, but I didn't feel any need to see it despite myself. Yet AVATAR was such an event that all of the shit-talkers who've been hating it sight unseen filed in just like the rest of us... King of the World, indeed.
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But take the literal-mindedness down a notch or two.
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NITPICKING IS THE FUCKIN SHIT! IT LETS ME KNOW THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WATCHED THE MOVIE INSTEAD OF DROOLING INTO THEIR POPCORN WITH THEIR HAND DOWN THEIR PANTS! "I loved everything about it." YOUR A MINDLESS OPTIMIST THAT IS SATISFIED WITH MEDIOCRITY! It really seems like i care with the caps lock on.
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Dec 20, 2009 11:47:10 PM CST
too right, Anti-fanboy. some of them even saw it multiple
by jackknifed_juggernaut
times. Cameron FTW.
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And no, I've never heard of ILM needing another studio to "help" them finish one of their films you fucking "moron".
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Some might go see again.
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You just perfectly described the girl that I knew. She use to assail a woman who's child was in a special program for ill kids. She did this behind the woman's back all the time. She worked as a special needs teacher. I thought this was just a case of the so-called overbearing parent, but again, my then girlfriend's attitude toward other's began to reveal her selfishness. I once mentioned children that she told me about standing at a bus stop as they were waiting for a bus in the snow. It was freezing out, and I said to her, "No child of mine would be allowed to go through that. I'd drive them to school instead!" She laughed, but not to indicate that I was right, no, she laughed as to say, so what...about the kids? In fact, this became a running joke to her, and I thought, "That is off for a teacher?" She even told me that most teachers are cheats and they go to special conferences across the country and cheat on their spouses at the resorts that they stay at, with whomever comes along, although she claimed to be different.She had a superiority complex. She felt like she was better than that woman with the child, and better than her own sisters, better than her family, her neighbors, strangers, and then, eventually me. She was also very paranoid at times, and very loose with her safety at other times? She would also go out of her way to avoid her family. I find that people who do that tend to have something to hide, a secret lifestyle, and she did.
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This year has been awesome for Sci-fi movies. Despite the lackluster Terminator Salvation (it wasn't all bad, it had a few good moments), we got treated to the AMAZING Star Trek, incredibly original District 9 and now the King of the World has brought us Avatar...absolutely amazing film in every way. It didn't even feel like 2 hours and 40 minutes, it went by way too fast and my jaw was open pretty much the entire time. My only gripes with the movie were the fact that Sigourney Weaver's characted dies and Michelle Rodriguez gets killed! HOLY SHIT does anybody else agree that Rodriguez is FUCKING HOT?!!?
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- easy.
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"2001 has great effects, but that's it." "What happened to the Kubrick who directed Spatacus?" The plot makes no sense!" "What the fuck was going on for the last 20 minutes of the movie?" "Where's the incisive wit of Dr. Strangelove?" "Calling the characters in this movie stiff cardboard would be an insult
to stiff cardboard." "The computer had more personality thasn any of the humans!" "HAL, at least,is 2-dimensional, which is one dimension more than anyone else manages." "Ape make-up pretty shoddy next to the work in Planet of the Apes." "Long and boring when it's not hallucinogenic gibberish." "I waited 4 years and this is what Kubrick gives me?" "Kubrick should have had another writer like Robert Bolt or Rod Serling help flesh out the characters." "Bizarre ending doesn't have impact of the brilliant twist in Apes." "This cost a staggering _10 and a half_ million dollars! Gonna take a lot of hippies to make that back." "Dialogue totally uninspired and unmememorable." "Guess after blowing all his money on SFX, he didn't have any left over for a proper score, and had to use public domain classical stuff." "A great movie has a tight plot, well-defined characters, crisp dialogue, and says something about the human heart in conflict with itself. Dr. Strangelove or The Killing had these things. 2001 does not."
"I think Kubrick must have had his brain destroyed by the LSD he's been taking for the past few years." "I feel bad for Clarke. His stuff makes sense; Kubrick totally fucked him over." "2001=TOTAL FAIL." "At least Barbarella has a nearly-nude Jane Fonda to look at." "Fantastic Voyage is a thousand times better than this crap. It has a tense, exciting plot, and the special effects are better, too." "Best sf movie of the year? The Power, no question. George Pal is a science fiction master of the old school; none of this demented druggy crap for him that's so popular with the 'hippies' today." "FACT:No one actually enjoys 2001 who's not watching it stoned out of their mind." "Too serious. Would a little comic relief have hurt?" "A waste of Keir Dullea, who was so good in David and Lisa; but when your character is given nothing to act, what you can you do?" "Totally derivative of Jordan Belson's work, but people who've never seen his stuff will think this is original." "I mean, WTF? WTF?" "There goes a couple of bucks I'll never see again." "This will never se a profit." "Spartacus is my very favorite movie. I thought Kubrick was a god; but he's just raped my childhood." -
Titanic made me ready for love again after being hurt in a few relationships. And now all these years later my wife(of nine years this month) and I are inspired to get back out into nature more than ever and we're picking up and moving to the coast near ocean beaches and redwood forests. Cameron's a classic story teller. The kind that can actually open up someone's heart to possibilities. We both got a little caught in the rat race for a while and now we're ready to go back to what made us happy. Embracing the beautiful world we live in instead of chasing hollow wealth that never really satisfies. Thankfully we're still young in our mid 30s and we didn't waste to many years. Thank you James Cameron. For helping us remember where the true treasures in life are found. Not in the pursuit of unobtainable wealth but rather the love of the wealth we have always had for free within our reach. A beautiful world to live in and friends and family to share it with.
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...wrote the above at top speed, as fast as I could to keep up with the ideas coming to me; so there's a lot more typos than I usually make. Again, apologies.
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AICN would rip it to shreds.
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Are you seriously putting on your indignation hat over the "go blind" line? You were offended by that? Really? I've got news for you: that's how people talk and joke in real life. The only real "flaw" in that regard would have been if Cameron HADN'T made a masturbation joke since that's the probably the first thing any normal human would have joked about.
You really need to try harder, chief. -
= massive talkback WIN
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I hope this helps her get more and better roles in films. She's cool. She's got so much flavor.
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And she didn't even get a 3D nude shower scene.
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What do you call Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's charred, smoking corpses? Or Obi Wan's corporeal death at the hand of Darth Vader? STAR WARS shows death. And they even named a space station after it.
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Between checking my watch and having to piss, I pondered about 15 other movies I'd rather be seeing with the 3D technology gimmick other than this tired cliched retread.
Dances with blue people. Give me a 3D Star Wars or Star Trek sequel ANY FUCKING DAY. -
You go to an oral surgeon, who you should have seen years ago if they are this far gone.
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I started doing that with Star Wars (my most loved movie), but what you came up with for 2001 was awesome.
Completely on the mark.
hippie killer said it well as well.
Feel sorry for anyone that can't enjoy a movie anymore, really enjoyed Avatar. -
Yes, they showed skeletons, but that was a rare case. In the case of Obi Wan, we find out later he didn't die. He became one with the Force. I meant to say the deaths in Avatar are more grisly than in Star Wars.
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The difference is that I don't begrudge you your absolute love of this movie but you think its your job to critique an opinion or criticism. This movie in particular is trying to immerse it's audience in an experience. All I'm saying is that certain things take you out of the experience. "try harder". the last straw grasped at by someone with nothing left.
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ZombieHeathLedger's dad didn't cum on ZombieHeathLedger's mom's face. Thus nine months and too many shots of jack later, a socially maladjusted retard was born, free to play internet tough guys and type "lol" like a 14-year-old girl.
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The characters she plays always seem like the kind of girl that always wants to be on top and in control.
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I really dont give a fuck about any of this. fact is i liked the movie, flaws and all but if we all just sit here and talk about how great it is then shit gets boring. i already said the shit i liked about it 2 days ago. I just don't need the sheriff of Avatar TB telling me I can't have an opinion no matter how small or juvenile it might be. Yall shot first. I'll squash it now or go all night. Honestly I'm bored at work sooooooooooooo....your move.
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Real, were you referring to the Alcubierre Metric (warp drive)(http://tinyurl.com/ydvhyp)?
If so, then there may be problems with it: http://tinyurl.com/dajjco
Or were you referring to something else?
As for Avatar, I'm going to see it Tuesday at the Winchester 22 in San Jose. Not a new theater, but one of my two favorites. -
AHAHAHAHAH. This turd thinks that Dragon Age Origin is the greatest game ever made. But Avatar, NOOOOO, Avatar is just not good enough for discerning Devin.
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you are absolutely dead inside...a useless wheezing sack of shit. The plot was absolutely fine for mainstream entertainment...and the visuals were mindboggling and showed none of the flaws the trailers did. The dialog was no worse than any art house wank or mainstream tv show...the music was pretty horrible though.
The imax is sold out for weeks here in Sydney...the audience applauded at the end. That rarely IF EVER happens in this country.
this movie will continue to laugh in the face of every single hater just like Star Trek did. Was it perfect ..no..was it great..FUCK YES -
favorite parts? what stood out for you?
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I love how tools like you feel free to say whatever you want about a movie but start crying like toddlers stranded in sandboxes full of broken glass if you get called on your opinions. Could you be more of a pussy?
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you guys at least agree on that, right? i mean, his patented double climax is always, always the coolest thing in all his films. it's why you leave his films with a giant idiotic grin. it's usually huge, tense, cool, and then when you tought you have your fun and gasped for breath, he pulls the second climax, which is BIGGER and COOLER than the previous one.
here in avatar we got an aerial battle that lack strategy(just duke them nuke them stuff), we see army of horse-thingy riders charging, and then we dont. it's over in a flash. the excitement is over even before the cavalry came swooping in.
followed then by the most unoriginal machine vs man duel in the jungle. the villain grabbed the hero's neck, about to break it, when he kicks the villain in the but or something, his girlfriend shoots, and BAM! badguy dead. where have it seen before?
great visual. no... PERFECT VISUAL. he's absoultely right about the 3d thing. but this story is just not worth all the trouble. this is NOT the guy who did aliens and T2. -
Cameron alluded to masturbation! I'm offended!
You sad, sad fucks. -
just replace the battle droids with the mercs.
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You didn't call shit on shit. Its so easy to sit back and say, "I like it." and have no contrary opinion. Here is a shit sandwich. You: "I like it." Guess what dipshit. I CAN say WHATEVER I want about any movie or any thing I want. Freedom of speech baby. You can't defend this movie to the death because it is flawed as you already agreed. Man I know you wish you had one of those tendril ponytails so you could diddle your rectum with it. What a fuckin loser you are.
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dont have an opinion other than "It's great" or DocPoleTaster will "call" you on it.
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Saber12: "Also, the aliens in Star Wars aren't really aliens. They're just cool background people."Just background people? Not really aliens or characters vital to the story?I think Yoda and Chewbacca would beg to differ...
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Wow, publicly defending massacres of indigenous people for the sole reason that you want what they got. This is why the CURRENT brand of conservatism is a complete intellectual and moral failing. Contrary for the sake of being contrary. Cutting off the country's nose to spite half of the voting population's face (liberals). Hypocrisy. Look, it's all well and good to encourage superior cultures stamping out others, until you consider the possibility of the Chinese stamping out ours. We owe them a loooooot of money, and a lot of it is thanks to your boy Dubya. Here's hoping they don't decide to reenact Avatar, because I don't think we as a collective are as sympathetic as our blue-skinned friends to have someone fight for us.
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This is why you're a cretin. I've never said you can't have an opinion on Avatar. YOU'RE the bitch whining about "talkback sheriffs". You can think whatever you want, but spare us the sobbing when someone calls you a dickhead for being offended by Cameron's masturbation joke. If you can't take the heat, fuck off.
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You told me I was 'following you around' on talkbacks or some shit on the Brittany Murphy talkback, and then I see that you brought me up on THIS talkback long before that! You're unbelievable man. Now, as for your reply, can I expect more "fuck your dad!" childishness? Or simply a colorful medley of bitch, faggot, and cock?
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You just compared Cameron to Kubrick?
Seriously, just a horrible thing to do.
2001 was/is/always will be genius. Even my friend who doesn't like it knows that.
2001 has believable characters. Interesting/Smart dialogue. Story is unpredictable and feels like your exploring uncharted ideas. Music is used perfectly and does not rely only on well established music (although there is nothing wrong with that). Then on the top, beautifully rich visuals accompanied by dense and perfectionist camera angles. When you make it to the end, you realize that there was some real THOUGHT given to this story.
Could you really say half those things about Avatar? Could you say anything beyond beautifully rich visuals?
Nope. Neither can I. C'mon man, just flat out rude to say that this is like an underappreciated Kubrick or something. Avatar has GREAT visuals and the rest SUUUUUCKS!! Lets just try to be fair, please. -
Visually excellent and entertaining enough. I just don't get why a director who is swimming in so much money hates capitalism so much. Environments were great but I thought some of the creatures were a little bit derivative (Google 'Thoat') But overall I thought it was a good movie... wasn't disappointed but I wasn't blown away either.
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In just one year, the Chinese will be at nuclear parity with America. Anyone want to say that it is okay for them to invade us? They have more soldiers than we do, an army 400 million in number, and as The Jokesonus alluded to, they can crash our economy any time they so choose to divest in the U.S.
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I mean, it wasn't bad or anything, but there was nothing surprising about it, unlike Aliens and T2.
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The fact that you have to resort to the language of a scumbag to try and back up your (poorly reasoned) points merely demonstrates that you know you have already lost the argument.
I'll stop by in a couple of weeks when Avatar outgrosses Star Trekwars.
Merry Christmas. -
Man you your so fuckin dumb. I'll try one more time with you dude. It doesn't offend me that he made the "..go blind.." "joke"(it's not even funny) but for the whole rest of the movie whenever they pull the ponytail out my girl and I are looking at each other joking that "he's rubbing his cock on it." To be honest it made me laugh unintentionally at the movie and as I said before it takes you out of the experience. You have not had ONE intelligent comment on this movie in defense or opinion this whole time. In fact, you fucking bore me at this point. There is whiskey to be drank and Left 4 Dead 2 to be played. Hopefully James Cameron will read your vehement defense of his flawless masterpiece and he will sweep you off your feet and you two can live happily ever after together. I won't check back. You lose.
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There was no fun or love, or spirit in 2001, it was just sterile and cold, slow and boring, with nice visuals and some sparse thriller like intrigues, however, Cameron fused Kubrick with Lucas and Spielberg. Avatar is an equal fusion of Kubrick's cerebral tone, with Star Wars' flights of fancy...romance, heart joy, spirit, adventure and epic western inspired scope, with a ton of Jurassic Park's scenic audacity, and big creature effects...thrown in for good measure, along the way. So yes, he is Kubrick, but he is Lucas, and Spielberg...and he is Cameron, and it works!!!
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Glad you liked the film Cobra! BTW to whoever wondered if Joshuavance01 and I had history, we don't. I have no idea who he is. But everytime I mention his beloved Star Trekwars he flings crass insults at me, always the sign of a weak intelligence.
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might have delivered a really cool score for Avatar, I think an electronic score might have been the way to go. Not that Horner's score is bad, just samey.
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But yeah, Avatar delivers real awe in cinema, for the first time in years. The scene where Jake sees his avatar in the tube for the first time is just a really stunning piece of cinema, you could feel the awe wash over the audience.
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it just definitely is not a good one either.
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and of course it fucking sucked complete cock. What an absolute disgrace to Cameron's filmography. Easily Cameron's worst movie. Fuck...where do I even start with this travesty?? Terrible fucking acting from Bland Worthington. I've been on the fence about him for months. I didn't think much of him after T:S but I placed most of the blame on McG. Now it's official...he has no talent. The idea that this talentless cunt has more projects lined up sickens me. Can't we just save some time and spit him out of the system now like we did with Colin Farrell? What the fuck was up with his accent?? Why didn't they fix that in post?? Or maybe they did and it was even worse before. I don't know. It was absolutely laughable. Anyone who says that sounded good is a fucking joke and his/her opinion should be discounted immediately. Speaking of talentless, James Horner once again delivers nothing but recycled mediocre shit. I usually give him a pass because he always gets called in last minute and has no time to compose original music. However with Avatar he had all the time in the world so why is he so blatantly ripping of his Troy score during the battle scenes?? I mean come on dude. At least change it up a little bit!! I haven't seen Troy since it came out on DVD. If I noticed it then that isn't a good sign. And you know what even if evert que in the movie was original it's still mediocre at best. Criminally underdeveloped characters. With the exception of Sigourney Weaver's character and Neytiri every character is either underdeveloped (Worthington), a one-dimensional cartoon(Lang and Ribisi), or just boring. Almost every line spoken by Quaritch elicited laughs from the audience I saw the movie with. The only thing that made them laugh more was the smurf fucking. Atrocious dialogue. I've defended Cameron's writing for years. Usually people who attack it are exaggerating but not this time. This thing it filled with absolute howlers and groan-inducing bullshit. Any apologists here want to defend Jake calling the Thanator a "punk-ass" or a "bitch" a 150 years from now? How about Chacon saying "Yeah...I've got guns too bitch!!"? How about "Let's Dance!!"?? No? Yeah....I didn't think so. For a second there I wondered if maybe Orci and Kurtzman had given the movie a polish or something. Not to mention a dozen other things that made me wish I had just stayed home. The only part of the movie I enjoyed was maybe the last 40 minutes but even then I couldn't get into it because it kept pissing me off how much better the movie could be if the script wasn't so lazy and slapped together. 12 years....for THIS?? Fuuuuuuck. This same story and characters could have been soooooo much more interesting in the hands of someone who was interested in more than technology. Face it guys this is Camerons second near-total failure after Titanic. The guy who made Aliens and The Terminator is fucking gone, I'm sorry to say.
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agree on the music...but everything else says your a humorless cunt. You dont like movies...you are a fuckwit snob.
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I gotta see this movie. I heard it sucks and the haters were right.
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amazes me...its absolutely NOT groan inducing..its FUCKING FINE and NO WORSE than 99.9% of the films loser assholes spend all their time defending here. It's retarded nitpicking.
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because you're fuckwits who are about nothing but PROVING your own point AT ANY COST. That's not an honest response to a film. fact.
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I have a copy of Seagology in my bathroom and I'm watching the directors cut of Aliens right now soon to be followed by a bootleg copy of Universal Soldier 3....right??
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you dont get what kisskissbangbang was doing, and how on the money he is.
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Even less excuse then...to pick single lines out of this film is a fucking woefully pitifully RETARDED thing to do. The characters are developed well enough, just fine...fully believable..and if you werent just a little bit moved then YOU ARE TOO FUCKY BUSY BEING A TRAINSPOTTING ASSHOLE. It works..picking shit out of it sounds like pin dicked desperation.
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Even less excuse then...to pick single lines out of this film is a fucking woefully pitifully RETARDED thing to do. The characters are developed well enough, just fine...fully believable..and if you werent just a little bit moved then YOU ARE TOO FUCKING BUSY BEING A TRAINSPOTTING ASSHOLE. It works..picking shit out of it sounds like pin dicked desperation.
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Sounds like someone has issues. Seriously, if that comment about "going blind" made you obsess over ponytail masturbation to the degree where it took you right out of the rest of the movie, you and your "girl" need psychiatric help.
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Well bad luck. But you are entitled to your opinion, unlike how you feel about others with your stupid arrogant comments like "....and his/her opinion should be discounted immediately".
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...maybe Sully should have said "this is so wizard!" when he first tried out his avatar, because we all know how cool made-up futuristic slang sounds, right?
Christ, you people are getting funnier and funnier. -
call the movie shit and actually tried to explain my problems with it by using examples? Oooookay then. Lesson learned.
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For me Cameron's best, but clearly you are not so picky on that movie re plot, characters and dialogue.
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any of the characters should talk in made up futuristic slang?? Where the fuck are you getting that from?? Did you think it was okay Jake to call the Thanator a "punk-bitch"?? If so did you think it was okay when it was used in the Transformers movies?? If not then why would it be okay in a movie that takes place 150 years from now?
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was going to free-fall that mech out of the chopper, like Jake just did with HIS Avatar?
I was watching him strap into that thing, thinking OMFG IS HE GOING TO...
-that would have been the most badass thing I have EVER seen in the history of cinema! only he didn't and I never saw it
shame, really - the battle mostly was pretty cool - except one thing didn't make sense to me-
the shuttle full of explosives was pretty much directly over the target and about to drop it's load, right? RIGHT when Jake flew in and crippled it - and it fell down and exploded... RIGHT over the target it was about to drop all those explosives over - did I miss something? wasn't the point NOT to get those explosives to blow up there??
the Avatar battle at the end more than made up for it, tho - mechanical vs biological Avatars locking horns - that was great, if too short.. -
saying your opinion should be discounted was stupid. I got caught up as I was writing my dictionary sized post. If you think Worthington's accent was acceptable than I strongly disagree with you but do agree that you are entitled to your opinion. If more Tbers would open themselves up to the fact that opinions on movies are subjective this place wouldn't be such a shithole. My internet connection is failing me so sorry in advance for the double post.
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because you made a little list of bullshit to hate about it...which says you went in wanting to hate it because there's a fine experience to be had with Avatar...none of that shit in your little list resonated with me, or the audience I was with..and I think their 'word of mouth' is going to do a lot more than either yours or mine.
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I was just trying to be funny, for the most part. Others had taked about frequent talkback bitchiness and wondered what it might have been like if talkbacks had been around in 1980, say, when ESB opened. I thought of 2001 when I read that, and realized it'd be an even better example, because of its now-unchallenged status as a masterpiece, and because some of Avatar's alleged failings are shared with 2001.
Now,I haven't seen Avatar yet myself, so I can't damn or defend it. But I have read a fine book
by Jerome Agel, The Making of Kubrick's 2001, which reprints every review 2001 received; and it received considerable flak. Many immediately considered it a masterpiece, but many thought it long, dull, obscure, pretentious and lacking in human interest. One guy asked for and got a refund for him and his wife (Kubrick reimbursed the theater). And many felt betrayed by a favorite director(which was the response most reminiscent of AICN). At least one of their criticisms, I would have said, was undeniably true, till I saw you say it had "Interesting/Smart dialogue. I'm surprised because Kubrick, in his quest to make 2001 as close to pure cinema as possible, said he had tried to make sure that _nothing_ important was said in the dialogue. It's deliberately flat and unmemorable. The only important conversation plotwise is Bowman & Poole talking in the pod; and none of this dialogue is more than functional. We don't even hear most of it; we see their lips move from outside the pod--just like HAL, and that's conveyed visually by the camera going back and forth as they speak.
To me, this suggests that you can have a great movie without great dialogue. Characters, too; I can't say they're not believable, but, like the dialogue, they're flat and functional, except for HAL. Some have proposed there are thematic reasons for this (displaying the mechanization of 21st Century man, and the reverse for HAL), but the characters remain bland and superficial.
What 2001 does have going for it is filmmaking skill (greatest cut in the history of film), the philosophical questions raised (& famously unanswered; its ambiguity in this respect was widely hated); and the visual splendor of the effects, and the wonderment and awe they create. Now echoing complaints about Avatar while discussing 2001 was just for laughs; but since you brought it up, maybe you can compare Cameron & Kubrick. The comparison favors Kubrick, of course, but it's not ridiculous. Philosophical questions are apparently raised in both; I expect they're handled more ham-fistedly by Cameron, but he asks them. Both have great filmmaking skills; Kubrick's are greater, but Cameron's, I think most would agree, are considerable, especially when filming action. As for sheer visual splendor, wonder and awe, these are supposed to be Avatar's strongest suit; if the comparison holds anywhere, it's probably here.
What else? Kubrick's story is unpredictable; I'll grant you that.I'll give you music, too; both Strausses definitely better than Horner.But to say Kubrick gave real thought to 2001 and Cameron didn't to Avatar...didn't Jim write a miniencyclopedia/guide to Pandora and hire experts (as Kubrick did) on biology and languages to help him? Sounds like quite a bit of thought there on Cameron's part.
Finally, you mention perfectionist camera angles. If there's one thing Kubrick & Cameron have in common, it's perfectionism. Both spent 4 years making the movies we're discussing. Kubrick made Jack Nicholson hit a difficult mark dozens of times in The Shining; sounds like cast-beloved Cameron to me. Both required new technology for these films, and both helped create it (Cameron more involved than Kubrick on this score). It's actually a toss-up for me as to which wins this round.
All this said, I still think Kubrick a greater director, if only for his versatility (there's other stuff, too, but it's 5AM!)And I haven't seen Avatar. But based on his other films, I don't think it's ridiculous to compare Cameron and Kubrick, even if Stanley comes off better. But to even raise the question with McG or Bay _would_ be ludicrous.
(And thanks, Lucasdefender, for urging me to think about this, even if I'm pretty sure you won't like the results. Kubrick is King, but Cameron, like Spielberg, is at least a prince.) -
I said the dialogue was terrible......and then I gave examples of said terrible dialogue. I then said the score was mediocre and a rip off of Horner's other work....and then gave further examples to support my reasoning and so on. What's the problem?? I'm not sure what's sadder...the fact that you can't take anyone disagreeing with you even the slightest bit or the fact that you think major problems with the dialogue, character development, and score should be brushed aside for empty spectacle.
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Regarding the climactic battle in the sky, around the shuttle full of explosives...
I thought the editor and Cameron did a superb job not just on the fx but in the choreography. There was a good 'pre battle fly by' where you clearly got to see where the Mercs had their gun emplacements on the shuttle and the mounted guns on the open bay doors. Then when the battle kicked off it wasn't just a quick case of killing the bad guys in one go, there was a proper ebb and flow. You saw some brave Navi doing flybys and picking off one or two gunners at the bay doors, weakening the numbers enough for the tribal leader Navi to swing in and have that awesome hand-to-hand moment.
Not too much shaky cam and deliberate disorientation, it was a battle you could follow. I thought it was brilliantly staged and still cant quite get my head round the people that are posting comments 'i hated every thing about AVATAR'? I mean, what???? Can't you even give it props for staging a great battle? -
Maniaq, oh yeah I forgot why i was originally thinking about that shuttle...
To answer your query I guess the bomb was dropped slightly early...
"It didn't go in. Just impacted on the surface". -
Chances are that if Cameron had employed the same linguists he used to create the Na'vi tongue to create a believable year 2145 version of American English, we'd be distracted by strange expressions to the point where an idea or emotion being conveyed completely passes us by. Using modern slang is a way to convey what the correspondeing futuristic terminology would have. This is pretty fucking elementary. Or what would you have preferred to "punk-bitch"?
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Dude, there's nothing wrong with my brand of conservatism, but there is most definitely everything WRONG about today's liberals and their fucked up mentality towards "the government will always be your best friend, which is why we can't tax you enough, control your life enough, tell you what to do enough... oh yeah, and did I mention we can't tax you enough? Because we're broke, but we still want to spend like drunken sailors on a binge for even more fucking idiotic social engineering programs that are destined to bankrupt the country. But, hey, we're fucking Democrats, so don't expect us to be able to add a column of numbers on a ledger sheet since that's too hard for us."And don't even go there about Bush and debt with O-Dumba in the office, since he has literally QUADRUPLED the debt at this point. Not to mention that in just ONE fucking year this moron has spent MORE than every other President in history COMBINED. And you're actually wondering why ALL polls show the Dems are headed for a complete blood bath at the polls in 2010 and 2012?
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is it too much to ask that Cameron be creative??
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I want to read about these polls showing massive support for conservatives. I don't think they exist. And if it is true that Obama has spent more than any president combined, don't you think that Bush's nonexistent fiscal strategy contributed to this? He didn't raise taxes during a war. During two wars. That's fucking retarded. Iraq has cost us international respect, American lives, the lives of Iraqi civilians, and billions of dollars. And if things get hot with Iran or North Korea, don't think it won't be that much harder for support because of Bush's fuck ups. Obama is not perfect. Hell, it's less than a year in, he's not even good or bad yet. But Bush was probably in the top three worst presidents in the history of the nation. And he was a Republican. And people remember.
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I totally fucked his girl. What? Don't look at me like that. He said he wasn't going to check back here. She has to be entertained sometime while he's drunk playing video games.
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You wanna hear some excellent dialogue?
http://tinyurl.com/yj4vb5b
It's honestly amazing how far Jim has come. -
for making me laugh so hard with your ridiculous determination and ludicrous arguments,despite the fact that you have lost the war.keep up the great work you are doing.
and dont forget:
232M WORLDWIDE OPENING !!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHA -
something that i noticed in these talkbacks,is what JC had already said: that people who wont like the movie,they will usually be the people who wont get the movie they already had in their mind.
and if you look at the above conversations,you will notice that indeed the people who dont like the movie,they use in their opinion,phrases like: 'i thought he was going..but he didnt,she shouldnt smoke because,we should learn more about his past..,it would have been better if...etc'
JC was right about that,since the impression i get is people wanted something else to happen in the movie,and not what they were really getting.anyway. -
I've had 24 hours to process this film and it's still boring garbage in my head. When I saw Phantom Menace 10 years ago I kept going back to see it, editing out the bad bits in the hope that the movie was actually good. I was in denial. I won't make that mistake again with Avatar. I had never been bored at a James Cameron movie ever before until yesterday. But it's OK. It's only a movie. The defenders of this bad film have to come to terms with the fact that great filmmakers are capable of making terrible films and James Cameron is the latest director to join that very long list. And you can stop quoting world wide opening figures. Everyone wants to see this movie and rightly so. Cameron is a master with a near perfect track record. But the Phantom Menace made 800 mill. That doesn't make it any good. And no amount of box office will convince me that with Avatar, Cameron hasn't dropped the biggest clanger of his career.
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The Avatar film I had in my head was coherent. Not Boring. Engaging. Thrilling. JC had other plans.
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and write down in your next post,how was your movie in your mind.i am very interested to see your personal vision and compare it to JC's.please do it in full detail description,not just in a generalized synopsis.I am waiting dear sir.
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but I'll try it anyway. Don't get me wrong though, I mean no insult.
Most of you guys seem to feel very strongly about the things you hate in this movie and many others. I honestly think you should try to make a film. Now, hear me out. I'm not saying that you can't have an opinion unless you do, it's just I wonder if you guys would actually end up making cool stuff.
As most of you already know, Cameron was a truck driver when STAR WARS hit. Feeling inspired and challenged by that film he then threw himself into learning everything he could about filmmaking. Through sheer determination and hard work he ended up becoming one of the premiere filmmakers of all time.
You guys seem passionate enough, so I wonder...what's stopping you?
“Perhaps it sounds ridiculous, but the best thing that young filmmakers should do is to get hold of a camera and some film and make a movie of any kind at all.” -KUBRICK -
I don't know if you are just being droll on porpose or if you are really not getting my point. but the point is that given the nature of the story of AVATAR, the romance is a bit of a nonsense. It's the story of an human who meets and befriends aliens. And i mean EXTRA-TERRESTRIALS. Do you remember that 80s movie ENEMY MINE? It was also the story of the relationship and friendship of a human and an alien. And there was no need for romance and all that. The point is, the way i see it, the romance between Sully and the Na'vi princess is absurd. I don't think a story like that needs it. personally, i find the love story to be needless baggage. The story could had been told without it. Does any story about a human who goes native on an alien planet thas to go the John Smith meets Pocahontas route? I'm sorry, but like as i might this movie, and i do like it, this aspect of the story i just can't help seeing as absurd and needless.
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Other than seeing the trailers, I knew very little about this film. Four months ago I was offered tickets to Imax Avatar day where I could see 16 mins of the film. To me, modern movie marketing is fucked. Why would I want to see 16-20 mins of a film then go away and have to wait 4 months to see the whole thing? This being my thinking, I didn't go to Avatar day. I was happy to wait and see the film in its entirety. I should say, I'm no hater. I've been a film fan all my life and A James Cameron fan since I first saw Terminator on video. Every film he made has been cutting edge and I am one of Titanic's biggest defenders. I won't be told by you or anyone, even james Cameron that the reason I didn't enjoy the film is because I expected something else. For a minute, ignore the hype, the price tag the people involved and look at the movie in isolation. It was dull. Interminably dull. Nice visuals, sure. Cutting edge, yes. The best I've ever seen in fact. But not game changing. basically, the equivalent of moving from a 50 inch plasma to a 60 inch plasma. Not game changing like Star Wars. Those words are going to hang around Cameron's neck for a long time to come. JC always accompanied stunning visuals with compelling story. that way, you really didn't want the Terminator to get Sarah Conner. You really wanted Jack to make it off the boat. I couldn't give two fucks for jake Sully or any other single character in fucking Avatar. two and a half hours of not giving a shit is not me hating on the movie. It's how I felt. I think when the bad ass cliche guy said to Suly 'you havn't got lost in the woods, have you?' he could easily have been talking to James Cameron. Because he got lost in the woods. determined to raise the bar. Determined to change the game. Up the budget. better visuals. Bit he forgot about story. 'Dances with Wolves' will do, gimme that. The weight of expectation that began with Titanic eventually caught up with him and crushed him. But in fact all he had to do was come up with a bunch of real characters the audience cared about and give them an interestin, compelling and simple story.
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gingerella, sorry you found it boring. It's a valid reaction and nothing anyone else can do about that one (I do seem to remember your kid posted their review earlier and seemed to have quite liked it, so maybe it wasn't a totally wasted trip to the flicks).
As for AVATAR having any kind of comparison to Simon Cowell or American Idol - aside from the fact that Leona Lewis sings the end song (which no one listens to cos they're picking up their coats and chatting to the people they came with) I don't get the comparison at all?
Perhaps you find American Idol boring and you also found AVATAR boring so you drew some bizarre parallel between a 3 hour sci-fi movie and a televised singing show? I mean, what???!? -
and are now within reach for anyone willing to commit.
http://tinyurl.com/yh3zbq6 -
My opinion hasnt really changed.
The dialogue was poor, the cast were all very good with Zoe Saldana deserving some genuine acclaim for her role, but as for Worthington?
The guy is just dull and emotionless.
Story wise, no terribly original ideas in there, and the characters were all basic building blocks.
The effects. Excellent, near faultless, and the 3D was great fun for a change.
But people, I'm sorry, special effects do not make a movie! And deep down that is all Avatar is, a special effects movie, there is no deep emotional meaning in there.
It was too long, it sagged horrendously in places, some tighter cutting would have benefitted here.
As a director Cameron has lost none of talent for spectacle. But the same can be said of George Lucas.
And what life does a mass spectacle film such as this have on DVD/BluRay? Without the 3D and a huge screen to enjoy the sumptuous environments and battles, what is left to enjoy at home? -
Still, aliens based on coachroaches are still more alien-looking then extra-terrestrials which look like cats, which are fellow mammals, and which in everything act and talk and feel and emotion like human being. You get my drift? At least with DISTRICT 9 they made an effort to create the aliens as an non-human likeness, to the pointtheir major inspiration was insects and crustaceans. So, yeah, i give more props for the aliens designs in DISTRICT 9 over AVATAR.
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I should have explained my post title. Here in the UK, Simon Cowell and his X factor winner were denied the Chrismas number one record by a bunch of people who started a campaign on the internet to make sure that Simon Cowell didn't get the number one slot as he has done for the last 5 years. A small group of internet folk banded together and asked people to buy 'Killing in the Name of' by Rage against the Machine. Well it worked and RATM are number one this Christmas week. It's a sort of Anti Cowell protest that alot of people of took up. The more I think of Avatar with its overblown bloated dominance, the more I think how important it is for film makers to return to storytelling and strive for originality. So If Simon Cowell is the old order and Rage against the Machine is the new order protesting, then Avatar is kind of Simon Cowell bad in my mind. P.S, I am not on drugs.
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it's called self-fulfilling prophecy.. you took your baggage an watched it with those goggles. Utterly disagree.. it never sagged and the characters were all engaging.
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ahem...nooooooooooooooooo
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quoting dialogue is surely the cheapest and most retarded shot you can make at a film...
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has to be Cameron's worst amusement park ride...uhhh, I mean film.
http://tinyurl.com/yhcsdjo -
Gingerella, ok I get it. I agree with you, we all like to 'stick up for' the little guy. That's why DISTRICT 9 is getting the love.
It's harder to stick up for a big budget production (complete with McDonalds happy meal toys, spin-off video game, all that shit) but in this case I think the movie warrants it.
I can only speak for myself but I watched it with my best buddy and his two step sons (aged 9 and 12) and all four of us munched our popcorn and had a great time. As far as im concerned, job done.
Maybe it wont stand the test of time or bear repeated viewings but for now I can say it was the most enjoyable film I saw this year. -
want a sequel to this Behemoth known as AVATAR!
Think about it. TERMINATOR to T2, and ALIEN to ALIENS. This guy fucking owns it when it comes to following up on great material. Too bad we didn't see the rumored epic POV shot here, but maybe he's saving that one. This was just setting the stage folks.
Also, didn't Jim say something about there being a world beneath the surface of Pandora as well? -
has got me on a cinema high right now, and I've only seen it once! Great stuff is coming everybody. Become a part of it.
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and not a followup in the Jake/Neutiri story.Pandora is the world where these stories are told,that was Jim's purpose from the get-go.And somewhere i read that the sequel might be about the oceanic environment of Pandora.
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Jesus Christ! Now that is gonna be trippy as fuck! Like, having weird Pandoran dolphin Avatars or some crazy shit!
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I heard that the sequels will take place on the other planets, or should I say moons, that surround the very same gas giant planet that Pandora does.
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To you, the most "alien" thing in the whole movie is the notion of a romance, because, well, you'd have a bigger chance of hitching a ride on a flying saucer than actually getting laid with a woman, feline or otherwise.
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you're boring...Avatar wasn't
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the problem is not the physical appearance of the aliens,since in both cases their designs are based on well-known terran lifeforms.Instead its about how us humans are connected or more familiar with the original lifeforms,which these designs are based on.
The Navi are based on cats,the prawns on cockroachs and we all know what is the human relationship with the above creatures.
The prawn is not more alien,because of a more alien physical appearance but because of what subconscious perception triggers in our mind: they look like cockroachs,we regard the cockroachs as a low-life and a very disgusting one,so we cant comprehend that cockroaches (in opposition with cats) can have intellect and emotion,so when we watch these human-size cockroaches depicting emotions,socialization,intellect and other human traits,then the whole situation looks very stange and subconscieoucly we receive the prawns as more aliens.
But at the end what it matters is to take things into a perspective,out of your personal one:
Replace the Navi with the Prawns and prove to me that Avatar would have achieve again its 231M worldwide opening.prove it. -
own 'coherent,Not Boring,Engaging,Thrilling' version of your Avatar movie.well?
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Cameron Plans 2 'Avatar' Sequels
The superstar director says he has stories planned and hopes to follow this movie up with 2 more
By Dominic Patten
The Wrap
Not only is "Avatar" coming, but the 3D sci-fi action adventure flick is a franchise in the making, director James Cameron said Thursday morning.
In a press conference in the UK, where "Avatar" is having its world premiere, Cameron told UK media outlets that he had planned stories for two more "Avatars."
"I have a story worked out for the second film and the third film, but my lips are sealed," he said. "So in terms of the pitch it was: OK, you've spent a lot of money on the first one; on the second one we'll be able to amortize it and focus on the story and all that ... and they bought that."
Cameron is apparently serious enough about turning his futuristic adventure into a multi-volume epic to have lined up star Sam Worthington for two additional installments. Worthington told Total Film that he has signed up for two more sequels.
Additionally, in a webcast from London, Cameron said that he "always planned on a sequel" to the film. Characteristically confident of "Avatar's" blockbuster potential, the director -- whose 1997 "Titanic" is, at $1.8 billion, the highest grossing film of all time -- quipped, "I don't see how we can lose."
With producer Jon Landau seated next to him, the director cited that he believed the 161-minute movie, which was over a decade in the making and is estimated to have a budget of $237 million, will be a success because its interstellar story has a "global reach" that will play well in international markets such as Russia and China, as well as Stateside, and "transcend all cultures."
"Avatar" comes out in 3D and 2D on Dec. 18.
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See my above post!!!
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I'm glad you had a good time at this film. I think I just wanted my 8 year old to have the same experience I had at 8 when I went to see Star Wars, which I'm fully aware, is a ridiculous amount of pressure to place on a film maker! And yes, my boy liked it, but no more than he enjoyed the many other films Ive taken him to this year. It makes me sad but I suspect that within a week, he'll never mention Avatar again. On a final note, because I will soon depart this talkback and let people who enjoyed the movie talk about it, given the quality of James Cameron's body of work, his worst film is still better than 80-90 percent of the crud out there. So despite the fact that I believe Avatar to be his worst film to date, I don't ever forsee a time when I don't go see one of his movies on opening weekend with a great sense of anticipation and excitement. So there you have it. Tentpole wise, Avatar is probably the best film of the year, but still Cameron's worst. I certainly wouldn't call anyone a fool for loving it!
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Great movie but 20 minutes could have easily been trimmed out and not detracted from the story...in fact it probably would have kept me from being bludgeoned to near-death by all the crying and high-pitched emotional stuff going on...in that, Avatar reminded me of Hero a little bit. Also...the mind-meld body-swapping thing made absolutely no sense...and wasn't even that cool...I thought the movie was great but had a very un-Cameron ending---waaaaaay too happy. Still...I'm really looking forward to seeing this one again. Strangely...the scene that made me go "WOOOOOOOOW" the most was the very first one when the humans come floating out of sleeping chambers...that was insanely cool...I want to see 2001 in 3D...or Alien/Aliens. THAT WOULD ROCK!!
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about possible sequels.
"If the public likes Avatar, it's a possibility. After all, here we are exploring the surface of the planet Pandora. The interior remains to be seen." -Jon Landau
Read more: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:2ST2HhfmZyIJ:www.firstshowing.net/2009/09/29/jon-landau-teases-what-we-might-see-in-the-avatar-sequel/+avatar+sequel+underground&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a#ixzz0aKWZnMPq
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Still, all said and done, i do agree with you that any movie that causes the amount of discussion this one does, and whch spreads to such subjects as politics and economics, if proof indeed of it's quality. Which is why you are fully justified to be proud of this movie, regardless of all the short-comings i see in it. As i sid before, i do think it's a good movie (with flaws), and i'll defend it against the haters, specially if all their arguments against it is just the "it sucks" variety. On that regard, i'm on your side.
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that last botched post.
"If the public likes Avatar, it's a possibility. After all, here we are exploring the surface of the planet Pandora. The interior remains to be seen." -Jon Landau -
It's not for me to come up with an alternative version of Avatar for you. If I eat a bad meal am I not entitled to say it without having to put on an apron and cook for four hours and get all sweaty in the kitchen myself? If I don't like a tv show do I have to buy a camcorder and a studio and hire actors and screenwriters? Am I not entitled to be a film watcher without having to become a filmmaker? There is no 'my version'. because it's not my job to fix the movie. It's my job to watch the fucker. And watch it I did and my sore ass is still paying for it.
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Dec 21, 2009 7:58:45 AM CST
Let me see if I have this straight about Avatar
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
Some paraplegic White Guy who has a bioengineeed body that he has only been in for three months, is able to fight better than Na'vi warriors who have been trained most of their lives (in their own bodies), then he is able to conquer the most evil beastie that has rarely been done, and in the process gets the superstitious natives to believe he is speshul, bangs the hottest babe in the woods even though he smells like milk, and leads the whole planet against his own people with a rousing independence day speech. And bangs the hottest babe in the woods again even after she saw his real form? And this is great storytelling? Visually it is stunning - although I will never ever see it again in 3d, but the story is a fuckin mess, the acting is a fucking mess, and Worthington is just a fucking mess. Damn, I actually missed Shia.
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I love tentpoles and 2009 was the worst year ever for them. Star Trek wasn't even Star Trek. Why Abrams didn't just come up with his own thing I'll never know. Transformers was fucking woeful. Salvation was embarrassing. I put it down to the writers strike. All these films had to go in front of camera with scripts that had been locked down months ago to avoid the strike. It was a shitty year for tentpoles and Avatar capped it off. GI joe? Kill me now. Fast and Furious? keep it. Wolverine? Don't get me fucking started. Night and the Museum 2: Battle to overcome the urge to kill Ben Stiller. There were two great summer films this year. Both emotionally engaging, both exhilerating and original and both extremely funny: Drag Me to Hell and Up. The rest can stay behind after class. Including Avatar.
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that Sam and Zoey had signed for 2 more Avatar sequels.
I would love to see Quaritch return in a Avatar body.It would have been both ironic and cool. -
though I'm not really sure if they liked it or not. If you like em strange, you should give it a go.
http://tinyurl.com/yzc5hch -
Okay, just curious to see where you're coming from, gingerella. Yeah, that list of films you mentioned was crap, though I liked Star Trek..probably because I don't have much invested in it as I'm not a trekkie. But I can't believe you paid money to see all those movies. You were bored by Avatar...that's a fair response.
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And notice the use there, of the word fun, Avatar was visually stunning and had some good performances but there was nothing in there to really enjoy for me.
it was CGI fest, pure and simple, so in that regard it was enjoyable.
If it wasnt for all the ridiculous hype, Im sure i would have enjoyed a thousand times more.
it reminded me of a Star Wars Prequel, and not a good one! -
My problem with the Na'vis is both about their looks and their mentality. Both are just too locse to humans. The reason why i think the aliens in DISTRICT 9 are more sucessful is because prawns and coachroaches ARE more alien to us then cats. The laters being fellow mammals and animals whihc have a close history to humans as pets.What D9 did was they first made the aleins look disgusting, and then, slowly, the movie make us more and sympathetic to them. AVATAR makes the aliens look cute from the get go. The fact they went for the pussycat look is not accidental. The Na'vi are deliberatly made to look cute and easily likable. The drooling irrascible coachroaches aliens form D9 are made sympathetic because of their plight and the inhuman treatement they get at the hands of their human overlords. You could say that in D), Neill Blomkamp suck the odds against the aliens and then made a movie that made us like them. Cameron stuck the odds IN FAVOR of the angelic Na'vis, to the point you like them already even before there's any harm done against them. I can't help admiring Blomkamp's efforts more.
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and he's insanely passionate. Can't say I agree with him, but he is quite a funny little motherfucker once he get's goin!.
http://tinyurl.com/nolcyq -
I used to go see pretty much every summer film, but no more. Life's too short. Lorenzo de bona crackpot said to Stuart Beattie, 'write me GI Joe.' Beattie said to him. I can't I'm on strike in 6 weeks.' Lorenzo said. 6 weeks will be fine. You CANNOT write a screenplay in 6 weeks. Lorenzo de Bona fuckin crackpot is not a film fan. He is a raper of film fans. My love of film took a battering this summer and I think I was counting on Avatar to heal the wounds, but it turns out that it was two hours and forty minutes of salt, man! Fucking salt in my wounds!
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Please dont compare that x factor repressed fairy and his piece of shit "talent" show to Avatar. I havent seen it yet but it couldn't be that bad! (could it?)I mean most people here have some appreciation for the movie art form and good or bad, Cameron has at least tried something unique. Simon Cowel on the other had would make the world a better place if he exploded killing that other pervert paddy fuckwit and that other braindead “judges” and everyone in the building.
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You are right about the "tentpole" movies this year being a disappointment, i enjoyed the hell out of Star Trek but hey, you said Drag me To Hell was good....
Drag Me To Hell proved one thing, Sam Raimi is a talentless hack who has been living off the cool factor of The Evil Dead for decades. -
just....so.....angry!!!
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Unobtainium - tels you everything you need to know about the quality of the Avatar script, unoriginal corny shite. No prettier than a dozen games. Re-watch Battlestar, fuck Cameron and his ego. Unobtainium my arse. Oh an what's with the lousy logo? Looks like a dozen exotic menu headers - a little cheap and nasty look for such an expensive flick.
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That was a good summation, but it misses the overall point. Yes the story was weak and derivative and it really was Dances with Wolves, fergully, etc etc., but ya know what? It worked. It was not an original story, so the Cameron crazies can just jettison that one, but damned if it was not an entertaining flick. And that is all I asked for. I was not blown away. I was not 'ocularly fucked', I saw nothing game changing, but I was entertained for the entire movie. Yes, I could nit pick, but only two things actually made me groan. One was the native sing along moment when tails are plugged into grass and they were all swaying. I swear I flashed on Mothra and was waiting for the two little girls to come out while the natives sing to their God. The second was the whole transference of minds, I mean that was pretty damned convenient and basically a reverse avatar. But the movie was damned entertaining and I enjoyed it for that and no other reason. I agree with you on one point: I will not see it again in 3d. That is just a worthless gimmick. In fact I will go so far as to say I will not see any movie that will be coming out in 3d -so maybe Avatar did change the game, because I am done with 3d. Just annoying as fuck.
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Come on 2,000 years seems like a long ass time to wait for something. Either he forgot or moved on to other things. Can't the dude get a twitter account or something?
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reading reviews going into this film i thought it would be like Jurassic Park; a special effects spetacular with stale characters but with a story that kept you engaged. How completly wrong was that. Instead the story was even more stale and incredibly lame than the characters. at least in jurassic park the story kept you on your toes. Here the story is so predictable, that you find yourself asking when is this lame movie going to be over. And its not that its dances with wolves on another planet, its the cliched characters, the bad dialogue, the accents, and you know exactly what is going to happen the whole movie. The Na'vi are a complete stereotype of an african tribe. They also dress and look like an african tribe, how original. and if Cameron was going to rip off the dance with wolves story at least change an aspect of the story. Should it take a piece of ass for someone to realize oppression and destruction of the environment are wrong. Jake Sully's whole time with the Na'vi is so laugh out loud terrible. While your watching this you kind of start to feeling sorry for Cameron that he has totally lost his story telling ability and has made a story so embarrasing. Another thing is the accents of the na'vi, they are never consistent. Zoe Saldana's character has a carribean accent, her mother has a african accent, her father has a native american accent, and the other male na'vi character goes from mexican to african accent during the movie. So in the future we travel 6 years to a planet and the humanoid aliens there will have accents that people on earth do? come on thats just lazy directing. and Cameron had the na'vi so spirtual that it was laughable and so annoying that you really didn't care for the na'vi because they seemed less spirtual and more like religous fanatics. Sigourny Weavers scientist character and the lead military character are so cliched, there is nothing engaging or realistic about these characters. Also could they do retakes when sam worthington's aussie accent came through, again lazy directing. the story never engages you until the end when the earth people decide to movie on the na'vi. This is the only part of the movie worth watching. Another flaw was they never explained what unobtanium did, thats incredibly bad story telling. if thats the reason earth people are there, tell what it does other than make a lot of money, does it solve some sort of energy crisis on earth? is it a short term energy solution or long term one? this is never told in the movie, very bad sci fi writing. in case i totally missed out, it never explain why humans need oxygen on pandora. Do the na'vi breath a different gas? Are oxygen levels lower on Pandora? again no explaination, very bad sci fi writing. one more thing it as an intimate moment between jake sully and the na'vi girl that challenges ben affleck and liv tylers animal cracker scene in armageddon for lamest romantic scene in movie history. I will say this it is worth one view in the theater in 3d, the special effects are amazing. Its just to bad in the 12 years of development of this film that james cameron couldn't come up with a story just as great. And cameron should have been able to he did with T1, T2, the abyss, and aliens, so he knows how to write a great sci fi film. So he should have known better than to write titanic on pandora. as great as the special effects were the story was so bad that the only way i would watch again would i would watch it from the part when the earth people move in on the na'vi, because before that point is some of the worst storytelling in a movie i have ever seen
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even during the time when the movie was being filmed.
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did you know that the people who complain about "unobtanium", the joke is on you? because your complains clearly show how ignorant you are os the Sf genre. any true fan of SF would know a mile away where the unobtanium reference cames from, and would understand the reference. Truly, the joke is on you.
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Been a while dude, where ya been? Ok, I can dig where you are coming from, and don't get me wrong I aint hatin on it, but it just did not move me at all. I just had some issues with the story that made it hard to really get into it. I have no plans to see it again, but I also would not tell anyone to stay away from it.
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Dec 21, 2009 8:39:52 AM CST
...hahaha, USA TODAY has an article about the "world bain"...
by flickapoo
...and a survey about whether you believe in one and whether you would call it "god".James Cameron prophet?...You decide!
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if only all you people here shitting all over Avatar had any filmmaking talent. I'm sure my eyes would melt and my brain short out with the capacity of how you would all 'show us how it's really done' ps. word of mouth is spreading - EVERYONE is talking about this '3D James Cameron film that MUST be seen to be believed' I'm going again tomoro, but i gotta tell you, there were audible 'gasps' during my first screening. Did you guys actually watch the same film? or are you all downloading it and just flicking thru it? be honest now i swear if they ever make a film where you put on a special hat which then gives the illusion of angelina jolie sucking you dry, the talkbacks will read "I've had better sex with watermelons and dogs" I'm witnessing the death of aint it cool news dot com here.... NOT jim camerons career. be sure of it!
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And when I did have a free moment, I saw nothing worth commenting on so I have been doing a lot of reading. I guess i'll wander over to moonwolves and see if Morbius and Xi are on. I have not seen them here. C'ya
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Dec 21, 2009 8:47:02 AM CST
There's a scientific theory called the "Gaia hypothesis"...
by chakraborty
...and it's the theory that the earth functions like a living organism, and when parts of that organism go out of balance, like humans running rampant and destroying the ecosystem like an infection, then this organism's defense mechanisms will try to fight off that infection with an immune response in the form of natural disasters. It's about having a balanced system of life on this planet, where every major change results in a response that disrupts the order. It's not necessarily a literal theory, but I like the notion...and for me, I saw Pandora as a literal representation of the "Gaia hypothesis"...and while many people claim to hate the movie and the story...I liked this aspect of the film, and thought the way he realized this, with the use of technology and visuals to immerse us in that experience was phenomenal. And it wasn't something done before, visually or storywise. Others didn't like that and found it boring...that's fair...but I enjoyed the slow moments in Avatar when they simply experienced Pandora.
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...except USA TODAY perhaps.
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Read David Brins novel: Earth.
It has the whole 'Gaia' theory laid out, and Cameron was very close to ripping off what Brin did in regards to how the world mind reacted. If Sigourney has any 'noticeable' impact on the world mind now that she is a part of if, Brin should sue! -
a movie with great vfx,but shallow characters and non-existent story.the movie didnt even have a final resolution,a final climax,something.they just fleed away,the end.jesus.
personally i consider JP2 a far superior movie than the first.i havent yet seen JP3,so i dont know how that movie stands.
and something relative.I think that Avatar is not a revolutional,but an evolutional step on how CGI works in the context of characterization and storytelling.
The CGI dinosaurs were the first cgi characters which managed to cause as fear,anxiety,agony.
Then came Pixar with their CGI characters which managed to cause us laughs,thrill,even sadness.
And then came Avatar which brings us a very immersive and living fantasy world,and its CGI characters,as a part of a more mature story,they love,they get jealous,they feel betrayed,and we the audience we get their emotions,we really feel them.
I just cant imagine how the future of entertainment will develop,if the film-makers will follow Cameron's vision.I am not talking about Bay or Mcg,but about spielberg,jackson,lucas,abrams,aronofsky,nolan,raimi,the guy who made D9,etc,etc.
A star wars,or a WoW,a John Carter of Mars or a Tolkien movie with Avatar's 3d cgi technnology,used as a tool for storytelling.my god. -
Dec 21, 2009 8:58:24 AM CST
Sigh, Starship Captain I am relieving you of command...
by billyeveryteen
On the grounds of conduct unbecoming of a Starfleet officer. You have been judged unfit for command.Guards, escort the Captain to sickbay.
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Same people who are crying over how great Avatar is are the same who cried over how great Watchmen was. It is a fucking movie and it aint gonna change jack shit in your life whether you see it or not.
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...the theory was created by scientists...so if it were incorporated into a story...it's going to be very similar...so I doubt Cameron can be accused of ripping off another author who also incorporated the "Gaia hypothesis", but did it first. I think M.Night used it in The Happening, too...but I haven't seen that movie..and I won't...
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...insignificant for Gaia to worry about. We could nuke ourselves out of existence from orbit turning a third of the world's surface to glass and we would still barely be a dry patch on Gaia's ass.She's pretty sure it'll clear up is she just waits a million years or two...if she doesn't see any improvement in four million years she'll step out for some NEOSPORIN or something...
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You think RETARD TREK is a better move then AVATAR? In what fucking way would that ever be true? Has that RETARD TREK ever spanwed conversations about politics and economics? Is RETARD TREK even about anything? Even the hack who made it, Jar Jar Abrams, admited that his RETARD TREK bullshit of a movie is about nothing. I'm sorry, but folrthe very fact that there's a theme and a topicality about AVATAR makes it a thousand times better then TURN TREK. and then there's the simple fact that Cameron can make a better movie about pain drying while on the toilet taking a shit then Jar Jar Abrams could ever achive even at height of his full power.
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While a great movie...watch that movie today, and you'll see how 2D a lot of those characters are...AND, how annoying those fucking kids are. The best thing about Jurassic Park was the dinosaurs, AND, Spielberg's storytelling and how we were introduced to the island and suspense was built, while providing the audience with the necessary exposition and education to understand how the island was created.
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unobtanium is a generic term used by scientist to describe an energy source that would solve the energy crisis. The problem with it in avatar is they never explain what exactly it does. Is it a long term solution or short term. can it be used in cars or planes or whatever kind of vehicle people use in the future? or is it just used in power plants? again this is never explained. and the story never tells how desperate earth is for new resources. the story just says that alot of money can be made of of unobtanium. and if a new source of energy was found they wouldn't call it unobtanium, they would come up with something totally different. unobtanium is a generic theoritcal term. so yes the joke is on the viewer, the joke is james cameron has totally lost his storytelling ability. and to all the people who love this movie, you don't love it you just want to love it. So you are in denial about how incredibly bad it is. I want this movie to be great too, but i couldn't ignore the incredibly lame storytelling. and 3d special effects can never make up for bad storytelling
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I am not talking about the theory itself being ripped off, I am talking about the personality of the incorporated human, effecting the world mind. That was Brin. Cameron did not go that far, but when Jake was praying to the world mind, he asked if any part of Sigourney could influence the WM, if she had somehow answered - or the WM responded, then that would have been really close to what Brin did.
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Go see avatar in 3D, it is why you go out to the movie theater. Get to the chopper , go now! Well worth your CO2 output tax for 3 hours.
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In year where so many movise had such big ideas and told their stories so well it's sad to see Cameron resting on his lorels with Avatar. He was bested by Watchmen, Where the wild things are, and District 9. Better luck next time James.
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could a lover of avatar please address the many flaws i made in my incredibly long post about avatar. And please explain how with all these major flaws, avatar is a great movie
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Dec 21, 2009 9:18:58 AM CST
tigerking....repost that paragraph with some paragraph breaks
by chakraborty
And then, maybe.
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Is missing out, sorry for you.
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Hell yes Star Trek was better than Avatar, and I didnt hate Avatar, I enjoyed it for the CGI special effects driven unoriginal story that it was, but Star Trek was fun.
For me.
AsimovLives, I know you dont like Star Trek 09, I think you may have mentioned it once or twice before. I wanted to hate it too, but when I saw the film, it was like watching Star Trek for the first time all over again! -
Looking for flaws in Avatar seems fucking stupid. Yes they are there, in the end Avatar was made for fun and the masses not geeks.
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I see that you have no defense of avatar, so your only response is a complaint about grammar, when everybody on this board have terrible grammar, including headgeek as you should know
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If it's an hypothesis, it's not a theory. And no, the Gaia HYPOTHESIS is not a scientific notion. It was an idea that was created in the 70s, and which, ironically, has been dismissed by it's very proponent.In science, hypothesis is a very different thing from a hteory. a theory is an already proved statement. An hypothesis is an unproved proposal. The Gaia Hypothesis hasn't been proved, thus why it's cvalled an hypothesis and not a theory.And yes, it doe spisses me off the constant mistakes people make about hypothesis and theory. This ignorance about the most basic notions of science is not only irritating, it's even dangerous.
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Liking something cannot and should not always be explained, you just like what you like and that's it.
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Of course it was like watching STAR TREK for the first time. Never before Star Trek had been as retarded. As such, yeah, it certainly felt like you were watching Star Trek for the first time... a fully retard version. The filmmakers of SHIT TREK really went full retard.
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What you unimaginative people (yes, you too, tigerking) are choosing to ignore as a possibility is the idea that it actually IS called unobtanium in everyday vernacular, in the same way that those tiny human fossils found in Sumatra (homo floresiensis) are more popularly known as "hobbits", that is, that future geologists adopted a well-known sci-fi term for a mineral which has been given an otherwise unwieldy scientific name.
Seriously, folks, do you actually WANT people to think that you can't connect a couple of simple dots? Does everything have to be exposed and spelled out for you like you're dopes?
Congratulations, you're all George Lucas's idiot man-children. -
yes it was made for the masses, and thats why it will come up short at the box offices. its sci fi not titanic, so there should be good storytelling. Not a bunch of incredibly lame sappy moments that only appeal to unrealistic expectations of females. and it was fun, this was second funniest movie of the year after the hangover. and it was funny because of the incredibly awful storytelling in the movie. 12 years of development and cameron couldn't come up with a better story or better dialogue?
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If you want to post a challenge and expect people to respond, make it easier to read. If you post a pile of unreadable words and say "There's no response so the avatar lovers have no defense of the movie", then there's very little to say to you.
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I'm not a lover of AVATAR. I have been pointing out it's flaws, as i see them. And i do like the movie. It's good things are enough to outweight (but not ignore) it's flaws.
<And the people who basj AVATAR because of the unobtanium are really some bunch of ignorant fucks. This clwons even call themselves Sf fans? Fuck hell they are! -
Yes, before that I said there's a scientific theory...only because using the word hypothesis twice in the same sentence would have been redundant...fine...it's a notion. Ugghhhhh.
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There was a TB'er named Memories of Murder who would lose his mind any time someone would confuse the words Theory and Hypothesis. Eerie.
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Another tell.
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Yeah I'm sure he spent 12 years reworking the script.
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"unrealistic expectations of females?" misogynistic much? any trouble with the ladies?
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"It's not an actual literal theory, but I like the notion" Did you not see that? Uggghhhhhhhhhhhh
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As per the Chicago Tribune:
Most important for distributor 20th Century Fox, the prospects for huge returns in the coming weeks are very strong. Japan and China, two of the biggest markets for effects-laden adventure movies, will get the movie Wednesday and Jan. 2, respectively.
In the U.S. and Canada, "Avatar" will benefit as those who saw it start talking to those who haven't. Audiences gave it an average grade of A, according to market research firm CinemaScore. And with Christmas falling on a Friday, Fox executives are buzzing that "Avatar" could gross about as much in its second weekend as in its first and hit $200 million by the end of the year.
"You don't often get a massive event movie like this that combines spectacle and scale with great reviews and word of mouth," Fox co-Chairman Jim Gianopulos said. "That's why we have such wonderful anticipation for the rest of the holiday season and well into the new year."
Gianopulos said he's particularly hopeful that more women will come out as positive buzz about "Avatar" spreads. Females made up only 43% of the film's opening-weekend audience. Stronger attendance by women in coming weeks will be key to the movie's long-term success.
If they do turn out in bigger numbers, "Avatar" could easily end up with more than $250 million domestically and more than $600 million overseas, based on the performance of comparable films. It might even become just the fifth movie to top the $1-billion mark.
A final gross in that range would put Fox and its financing partners Dune Entertainment and Ingenious Film Partners close to profitability based on theatrical revenues alone. Future sales from DVD, television and other markets would put them well into the black.
Studios typically receive half of a movie's domestic and 40% of its international box-office revenue. The three companies spent about $280 million to produce "Avatar" after tax credits. Fox spent an additional $150 million to market and distribute it worldwide.
The largest factor in its performance beyond word of mouth was 3-D. Domestically, theaters with 3-D screens accounted for 71% of the movie's gross despite representing only 59% of those playing it. Overseas, the disparity was far more dramatic, with 25% of screens and 56% of ticket sales in 3-D.
The difference was large enough to demonstrate that higher ticket prices weren't the only reason that 3-D screens generated higher revenue -- they also drew bigger audiences. The availability of 3-D screens was one of the key risk factors in the production of "Avatar": Disputes between theater owners and studios over financing their installation put the movie, whose appeal is premised in large part on the technology, in jeopardy. Although the total number of screens was not as high as Cameron and Fox had hoped, it was enough to drive the opening they needed.
"It was not a 3-D phenomenon everywhere, but in the places where theaters were available, it overwhelmingly leaned that way," Gianopulos said.
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Dec 21, 2009 9:39:23 AM CST
It's a testement to the level of ignorance of the unobtanium moc
by asimovlives
that even mortal enemies like me and docpazuzu agree on the lamenes and idioticy of all those who criticise AVATAR and Cameron for the use of the unobtanium as the story's mcguffin. Fucking hell if there's any more proof of such ignorance from certain people about even the most basic and well known elements from classic SF. This fools must think that SF starts and ends with Star Wars. Jesus fucking christ!!
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hobbits for homofloresiensis is lazy term for the species. unobtanium is a generic theroetical term about an energy source that is not yet discovered. if they discovered a new energy source they would ascribe it a new name. Scientist wouldn't apply a generic theoretical term to a unique energy term. and in avatar the only thing that is explained about unobtanium is that it makes alot of money. Nothing in avatar states that it solves an energy crisis on earth or that scientists believe it will. and in avatar we are never told how bad the energy crisis is on earth only in the most generic terms by jake sully that earth used up its resources. again this is lazy storytelling. nothing about the current status of earth is explained or shown
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Gaia Theory, like communism, is a religion disguised as science. It makes for good fiction, but isn't plausible. One of the primary characteristics of life is to reproduce. The Earth has never created another planet that shares its characteristics, obviously.
Also, the Earth has helped wipeout several species thriving on it long before Man was ever born in the form of volcanic eruptions, as one example.
It's a handy tool for left-leaning environmentalists to use because Earth plays the part of the Angry God that can punish us for not following their Green commandments.
As it pertains to Avatar, it was the thing that bothered me least. A planet where everything is linked on a fundamental level, forming some sort of demi-urge collective hive mind would be a unique and Alien ecosystem, and that's what sci-fi is all about.
However, when the bad guys are talking about fighting against terror, using shock and awe, and blowing up trees, science fiction flies out the window and what we have left are contemporary politics.
Did Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, The Thing, E.T., Enemy Mine, Alien, and Aliens rely on contemporary politics? That's the problem--every time you start to lose yourself in the beautiful world of Pandora, the modern politics come in and pull you out of the moment. -
First, the good:
- I was very pleasantly surprised by the high quality of the dialogue, the quality of the story, and the quality of the editing. The dialogue never takes you out of the movie, and the pacing was nearly pitch-perfect.
- Cameron was VERY smart to basically make two movies here. There's one movie about the humans, and a second movie about the Smurf-cats. Despite the advances in technology, Cameron did NOT cross the Uncanny Valley, and he was smart enough to recognize it. So he didn't try. Instead, he juxtaposed a human sci-fi movie next to a full-cgi animated movie. That was the only way the movie would work.
At the very end, when the human Jake is onscreen with his Smurf-cat girlfriend, it's the only moment where the limitations of the technology become apparent. That scene looked incredibly fake because the viewer gets an opportunity to COMPARE the cgi character to a real human being.
George Lucas, in contrast, tried to mix cgi characters with human characters, and failed miserably. It simply doesn't work and, in my humble opinion, will never work. When the human brain sees a cgi character next to a human, it instinctively picks out any little flaw in the cgi and unconsciously screams "fake!!!" But with a full cgi animated movie the brain says, "ok, it's just a cartoon. Let's enjoy it for what it is."
- The Na'vi eyes were really, really well done.
- Thanks to this movie, the possibility of a GOOD Robotech movie might actually be possible, even if it'll look really derivative. I mean, the Na'vi are physically pretty much first-cousins to the Zentraedi!!!
Now for the BAD:
- Not only does Cameron resolved the conflict of the story with a massive Deus Ex Machina, he has the audacity to resolve the conflict of the story with a LITERAL Deux Ex Machina!!! Weak, man. Weak.
- Not only does Cameron resolve the conflict of the story by relying on metaphorical "alien space bats", he has the audacity to resolve the conflict of the story by relying on LITERAL alien space bats!!! I REALLY hope Cameron was intentionally trying to be tongue-in-cheek on that one, but nothing else about the movie seemed tongue-in-cheek in the slightest, so I don't think he was winking at the audience, sadly.
- The lip-sync on the Na'vi wasn't quite there. It really hurt the suspension of disbelief.
- I really, really, really got tired of how fucking earnest the whole movie was. There were no "winks and nods" like there were in Aliens or Terminator 2.
- I didn't believe in the villains for one second. Giovanni Ribisi's blatant racism towards the "savages" came across as SO forced. This isn't 16th century South Ameerica folks. As much as Hollywood may hate to admit it, humanity has moved beyond naked genocide as a strategic goal. We fuck planets up through ignorance and incompetence, but not through malice. A far more convincing story would have involved the humans ruining Pandora's environment slowly, over time, due to honest ignorance. And the villains refusal to ignore the science of how Pandora's ecosystem worked was just stupid. It was so obviously a sad reference to climate change deniers, but even on that level it didn't work because Pandora's ecosystem is something the characters could actually experience on a visceral level, while climate change science is abstract and relies on conjecture and extrapolation. Fail.
- There was SO LITTLE exploration of the humans' motivations. They were "just greedy and evil". Until the end of the movie where we learn from ONE off-hand comment that THE EARTH IS DYING!!! Doesn't that mitigate the moral judgement of the humans a wee little bit? They aren't Spanish conquistadors murdering whole societies just for a little gold. They're fighting for the continued existence of the freakin' human race!!! Nope. They're evil. Evil, I tells ya. James Cameron says they're evil, so I guess they're evil. Can't you tell how evil they are? The music's a pretty dead giveaway. Yup, totally evil. Whatever.
- Why the hell would anybody watch this movie on DVD, or even Blu-Ray. Without 3D, this movie simply doesn't work. Without 3D, it becomes a great big exercise in machinima. Good machinima, I'll grant you, but machinima nonetheless. My prediction is that the movie will made mad cash in theatres, and yes will make mad cash in disc sales, but the revenue from disc sales won't be nearly as big as the studios hope. -
titanics love story was unrealistic, as is most romantic comedies. thats why they call them chick flicks because they represent the unrealistic expectations of females. as for guys we have porn which represents our unrealistic expectations
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You missed the next Gen films, eh?
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Mayeb you ar enot aware of the fact that scientists are HUMANS TOO! And as such, scientists soemtimes take literary and movie references for the stuff they find,a nd give them this unofficial names based on literary and movie references. Because, like, the majority of scientists are actually SF and fantasy fans.for example, ther ewas a big asteoid that astronomers found which it's unofficial name was Xena. When they discovered that asteroid have it's own moon, they called it Gabrielle. The point is, contrary to all the Hollywood bullshit movies, scientists do have a lot of a sense of humour. More so then certain geeks who complain and piss about stuff they know jack shit about, that's for sure.
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When the country is in the midst of a crippling recession, you don't worry about the fucking deficit, you stimulate the economy.
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Having seen Avatar, and loved it, I found myself contemplating the sequel posssibilities. While there is still much to explore on Pandora, the film does not seem to offer an obvious, direct sequel, given that the Jake Sully story arc seems to be complete, but it would almost be a crime for Mr Cameron not to return. Here is a way he could do it: We set the story a few months after Jake has become a full-fledged Na'vi. His relationship with Ney'tiri is burgeoning, and his acceptance by the tribe almost complete. Almost, because there are a few dissenters who are not willing to fully trust this human/Na'vi interloper, led by Re'treya, who has become fascinated with the human technology left behind, and sees the potential in it. Meanwhile, the corporation who wish to acquire the Unobtainium, make further plans. But they're smart enough to know that sending in an army against the Na'vi could be another PR disaster. Already, on Earth, there is a growing movement supporting the Na'vi and their ways. The solution is to gather more intelligence. To this end, a covert team of soldiers and scientists are assembled, to probe for weaknesses. They learn through contact with Re'treya of an ancient Na'vi enemy, a subterranean tribe, Subterrans, that are extremely vicious, and that have bested the Na'vi on the few times the two species have met. The Avatar programme is reactivated, and this time Subterran avatars are created. To avoid a Jake Sully-type incident of an operative going native, the new avators are occupied by war criminals, who favour violence over diplomacy. They are sent into the underworld to stir up a war between the Subterrans and the Na'vi. It's a perfect solution, win-win for the corporation. No one will question it back on Earth. Of course, Jake learns about the threat and sets out to avert the war. The story spins out from there. I have a few kinks to work out of the script, such as how Re'treya figures in it as the story progresses. Could he be promised something by the corporation, who of course will betray him? How will Jake and Ney'tiri's love be tested? I also think it would be great to see Jake battling a war criminal Subterran avatar, who baits Jake about not taking advantage of this new power. Could be fun. Jake, of course, needs to progress as a character. Could he become an ambassador to Earth? Perhaps a third film sees him returning to Earth. Anyway, I say bring it on.
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Dec 21, 2009 9:53:33 AM CST
"hobbits for homofloresiensis is lazy term for the species"
by docpazuzu
I've got news for you, tiger: people ARE generally lazy. How many scientists in Avatar actually referred to it as "unobtanium"? Or was it just the corporate lackeys?
You really need to try harder than that.
As for not explaining what unobtanium does -- so what? That doesn't impact on the story one bit. It's not necessary to know all those things for the story on Pandora to work.
I found it painful enough that Ribisi pulled Weaver into his office and gave her the brief lecture he did since it was obviously meant for the viewers. Perhaps you'd have liked whole scenes of people sitting around saying, "Ah, yes, unobtanium, that invaluable mineral we are here to mine as a boundless energy source for the 7 billion humans still remaining on our 96% barren and depleted planet Earth, which is 4.3 light years away from here and is the third planet from the sun."
Maybe we can get a prequel with Miles Quaritch's dad, Grando Quaritch, and how he and Jake's dad used to serve together in the Gulf. That way we can see firsthand how the Earth is depleted, thus setting the stage for Avatar.
Remember people, everything is NEVER enough. -
Per wikipedia:
"Unobtainium is a humorous name for any extremely rare, costly, or physically impossible material needed to fulfill a given design for a given application. The properties of any particular unobtainium depend on the intended use. For example, a pulley made of unobtainium might be massless and frictionless. However, if used in a nuclear rocket, unobtainium would be light, strong at high temperatures, and resistant to radiation damage.
More recently "unobtainium" has come to be used as a synonym for "unobtainable" among people who are neither science fiction fans nor engineers, to denote an object that actually exists, but which is very hard to obtain either because of high price (Sometimes referred to as "Unaffordium") or limited availability.[7][8][9] It usually refers to a very high-end and desirable product, e.g. in the mountain biking community, "These titanium hubs are unobtainium, man!", or a first-time indie film director saying that a sound stage to film in would be unobtainium.
There have been repeated attempts to attribute the name to a real material. Because of the long-standing usage of the term "unobtainium" within the space elevator research community to describe a material with the necessary characteristics, LiftPort Group President, Michael Laine has advocated assigning the term as the generic name for cables woven of carbon nanotube fibers, which do seem to have met the requirements for this application. Since he claimed that sufficiently long nanotube cables will be prohibitively expensive to develop without inexpensive access to microgravity, these cables would still be close enough to unobtainable to meet the definition. However, this usage does not seem to have become widespread at this time." -
Dec 21, 2009 9:56:03 AM CST
Went in expecting a turd, emerged having seen a cheese sandwich.
by kizeesh
It was pleasant. It filled me up and I knew exactly what to expect, there were even a few moments when I found myself enjoying it quite a bit.
But when all was said and done, it was nothing special.
Harry, I'm sorry, you're talking bullshit, you can't claim the story of Avatar is great, it simply isn't. It's derivative piffle. -
the point is the only thing about unobtanium that is explained in the movie is that it makes alot of money. Then at the end of the movie jake sully says the earth is dying. if the earth was dying then there would be a much larger presence of humans on pandora if they needed this energy source so bad. again bad storytelling. nothing about the current status of earth is explained until the end when jake sully says earth is dying. So if it was dying during the movie it would be explained that the motivation to get unobtanium is more than just making lots of money off of it, its to save planet earth. But if that was explained then the human's action wouldn't appear so bad because it would be the actions of a desperate people, thus ruining the point of the movie. so james cameron leaves a big plot loophole in the movie anyway by having jake sully saying earth was dying. during the movie the actions of the humans are presented as actions of greedy people not the actions of a people whose planet is dying
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Dec 21, 2009 10:03:25 AM CST
One more thing, the Na'vi's motivations were also dumb.
by royston lodge
1) Ok, so Jake is banished because he's betrayed The People and brought destruction down upon they're society. But then all is forgiven just because he shows that he's the most badass alien spacebat pilot they've ever seen?! If the Na'vi are so impressed by a warrior's skill that they will instantly forgive all his previous crimes against them, no matter how heinous those crimes may be, then WHY THE HELL ARE THEY FIGHTING THE HUMANS WHO ARE SO OBVIOUSLY SUPERIOR WARRIORS?!?!?!?!
- Once it's revealed that there are other clans at different locations of the planet, the idea that the Na'vi can be a peaceful society became WAY LESS BELIEVABLE. I'm supposed to believe that this one clan in the jungle has sole possession of the most sacred sites in Na'vi society, and the other clans have no problem with that? I simply cannot buy that.
Also, not Na'vi-related, but it still bugged me: There was ZERO exploration of how Pandora's status as a moon affects the ecosystem or the Na'vi culture. What happens during the long periods of time when Pandora is in it's planet's shadow and gets zero light? Sure, there's the bioluminescence that allows them to see, but the plants still need sunlight to grow, don't they? Are all the plants part fungus, able to take nutrients straight from the soil? There were no volcanos in the movie, so there's no indication that geothermal energy makes up the difference. So, what the fuck? -
You either think it's a cute in-joke, or a stupid one. I'm fine with it, but I'd have been fine if he called it rheolite (I read somewhere it's supposed to be a high-temp superconductor offering no resistance to the flow of electrons, and rheo- is a prefix meaning flow). But it really doesn't matter, guys. It's just one word in the script; how can that be a dealbreaker? It's like the hoary old fuss about Han Solo making the Kessel run in five parsecs. That was unmitigatedly stupid, because parsecs are a unit of distance, not time; it's not even a matter of taste like unobtainium. But does that one error make Star Wars a worthless movie? In a word: no. So can we all move on to discuss larger issues, lovers and haters alike, and leave this one word behind? Please.
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to anyone who ever told me to fuck off. wish granted.
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Royston, this is just speculation, but the plants could be getting energy via radiation from the planet that Pandora orbits, like Jupiter and Saturn supply some heat to their moons.
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there are floating mountains yet there is zero explaination as to why these mountains float. not one sentence devoted to how these mountains float. incredibly lazy storytelling.
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Which may seem odd considering my rant about the lack of sunlight, but here's my reasoning.
It doesn't really matter what makes them float because the fact that they float doesn't really have any impact on the internal logic of the story. Just chaulk it up to the large amount of "unobtanium" in the moon's crust. Unobtanium is like The Force. It doesn't really matter how it works. It sets up the internal logic of the story. In fact, explaining it would be lame (midichlorians). The problems come about when the storyteller violates the internal logic of his/her own story, which Cameron does in spades.
The lack of sunlight, for example, does have an effect on the internal logic of the story. For example, the Na'vi and the wildlife would be adapted to such a weird daytime/nighttime cycle, but the humans would not. We don't see how the humans use technology to mitigate that disadvantage.
We also don't see how the Na'vi defend themselves from the wildlife during such long periods of nighttime.
I can buy the idea that the plants can absorb radiation from the gas giant. That works for me.
But I'm still bothered by the lack of exploration of how the humans adapt to the weird day/night cycle.
I also want to know how the moon can be so tectonically stable considering the extreme tidal forces the gas giant would exert upon it. ONE volcano would have been nice. ;-) -
I agree with gingerella that I "did not care" about the main characters (Jake, Neytiri) which meant the story lost its punch. And why did I not care about them?Neytiri is a bratty teenager. When her parents tell her she has to train Jake, she stomps on the ground. Who behaves like that? A bratty teenager. When Jake swoops in on a big red car (er, big red dragon) she forgives him everything and jumps on his ride. Again, this is teenie-bopper behavior, and not the kind of character I fall in love with. In fact, I kind of despise the shallowness, and hope she will grow up. I was hoping the film would show her grow up, and love Jake not for his prowess, not for his big dragon, but for his courageous spirit in a dilapidated body. We never saw that.As for Jake, the truth is - he is not courageous anyway. He is a spineless two faced opportunist, playing both sides, and trying to not get caught. The most cruel and heartless thing he does is marry Neytiri, knowing that he cannot really live with her because he is a human in a different world. When he comes to, after the love scene, he says, "Jake, what are you doing?" and that is right: he is playing with someones emotions, knowing he cannot be there 100% for her like she deserves. If he truly loved her, he should have said to her, "I love you but I cannot get involved with you because I am just a dreamwalker!" As it stands, he merely used her and enjoyed her, while hardly caring that he could not commit to her 100%. Highly unresponsible and unloving on his part.Grace Augustine was always the one spouting the treehugger credo, while Jake cringed in the background, ashamed that he had been caught on video smashing the cameras...ashamed that he had blurted in his video log something treehuggerish ("we have nothing to offer them"). To be a man (and not a spineless two faced rat) Jake needed to at least once open his mouth and declare the treehugger credo to Quaritch face to face. But he never gives that speech. And that is why I could not root for the Jake character.As for my version of how to fix these flaws, search up the thread for "Dufusyte" and read How to improve Avatar.To fix Jake, have him commit 100% to the Na-vi world, like a video game addict it becomes everything to him, until his real body is so neglected, sleep deprived, and wasted, that it begins to fail him, and he does not care - he must get back in his pod.For Neytiri, have her find Jake's wasted wormlike body in the pod, hooked up to tubes and pipes to keep him alive, and have her see in his eyes the spirit she loves, and she says in that context, "I see you!" and love him. Have her appear among her people cradling this scrap of humanity and declare her love for him, "This is our hero, honor him!" as she holds up his near lifeless corpse.As the humans leave the planet, have Jake voiceover, "When they left, there was no more support for the Links; the avatar program could not function. And I did not know how much longer my life support systems could keep me alive." So the audience sees it was technology that made his loving relationship with Neytiri possible, and technology which kept him alive. And then have Neytiri carrying his body to the tree, and the people praying, and his rebirth. This way we get a true love story where Neytiri grows up, Jake takes a stand, and technology is seen in both a bad and a good light. These are characters we can love and root for, and a message that is a bit more nuanced.
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I love you, Harry, but...this seems like a movie and a review trying too hard, way too hard (did you *have* work health care reform into the review?) to be politically relevant to 2009. I know it's hard for a movie now to *not* be derivative in some way, and that's true of Cameron's past efforts, but AVATAR seems to take it to a whole new level. And the thicker Cameron lays the "Dances with Wolves" evils-of-white-capitalist-imperialism sermon on, the harder I'm going to find it to enjoy the eye candy or the characters.
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That's the only thing I hate about Cameron. He waits to fucking long to do anything. CHOP..CHOP!!
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"GO BACK TO YOUR DEAD WORLD"
Royston, Tiger, I think you're reading the wrong thing into this line. It's delivered after Pandora 'came alive' and fought back through its flora and fauna. So of course the Earth seems 'dead' in comparison.
I took it to mean a warning. Stay away from Pandora and dont return cos it's not just the Navi who dont want you here - it's the planet itself, and that's a battle you simply won't win. -
Brilliant analysis, that.
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I didn't jissed any of the NexGen movies, and none of them are retarded. Flawed and misguided, yes. Retarded, no. It's your beloved SHIT TREK which is the retarded inbreed cousin of the Trek family. Though shit, deal with it.
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I'm going to agre wtih you that the movie should had explained better what unobtanium was and how Earth was like in this future world created for the movie. If i have to venture a gues, all the explanations went to the cutting room floor. We might be in agreement on this that there's explanations that would had helped the movie that are absent, and their inclusion would had helped the movie.
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tigerking, I expect James Cameron 'knows' how the mountains float. Prob a book to accompany the movie like the many 'science of star wars' type kids books would spell it out for you if you really are that sad.
At the end of the day I don't need to see under the bonnet of a sandcrawler to look at the engine, I don't need to know how dilithium crystals power the Enterprise and I don't need to fucking know how Pandora's floating mountains float. IT'S ONLY A FUCKING MOVIE!! Im done with this talkback.
ps. if anyone does know how those mountains float pls email me. -
It actually has a real impact on the internal logic of the story:
- IF the ecosystem gets its energy from the gas giant, then doesn't that mean that the life should only be on the "bright" side of the moon? If the "dark" side of the moon doesn't get any energy from the gas giant then it should be devoid of life, right? So, doesn't that mean the humans can mine the shit out of it and not have any impact on the Na'vi?
- Maybe Pandora rotates differently than our own moon, and there is no "dark side" vs. "bright side". Or maybe there's enough energy from the system's star and from the gas giant to keep life going all over the moon's surface. Ok, fine, but Cameron should have explained how it works, because it affects the internal logic of the story!
I don't need a director to explain every bit of fantasy scientifically. That's how you end up with midichlorians and Star Trek pseudo-scientific babble.
But when the science in a sci-fi movie has a direct effect on the story that's actually being told, then I expect the storyteller to provide an explanation.
And that explanation should be better than simply Deus Ex Machina or alien space bats. -
...or more likely, African history - especially the Belgian Congo, where Leopold II so ruthlessly pursued resource extraction that over 10 million Africans died. It's not that this kind of resource imperialism has never happened before - it has - but that it rings such a false note aimed at what are plainly contemporary American-looking and -sounding protagonists. You can believe, as I do, that Iraq was a mistake, but this doesn't make it any easier to read AVATAR as a gloss for the War on Terror or the sins of 2009 America. Even the Americans and the Spanish (unlike the 19th century Belgians and French) have/had idealistic impulses to temper the worst exploitation impulses - Wolfowitz's (ill-conceived) nation-building passion, the religious missionaries (yes) like Las Casas and the Jesuits who strove hard to protect the rights of the indigenous inhabitants. I can't help but feel that Cameron is Don Quixote, riding off to slay enemies much more of his imagining than reality - and no longer able to grasp that the more his movie is a sermon (left wing, right wing, whatever wing), the less effective it will *as* a movie, unless your name is Riefenstahl or Eisenstein, and you already have a totalitarian wind at your back.
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Dec 21, 2009 10:56:41 AM CST
are there people that needed to know how a lightsaber works?
by miyamoto_musashi
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Royston, dont make me kill you.
You'll be telling us next that the Hawkmen in FLASH GORDON would never have been able to fly with their body weight to wingspan ratio.
ITS. ONLY. A. FUCKING. MOVIE!!!!! -
Dec 21, 2009 10:58:37 AM CST
There were people that needed to know how the force worked
by chakraborty
They are responsible for the midochloridian fiasco.
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to stop watching fantasy movies, hell any fiction, watch documentaries instead
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actually you would nitpick documentaries, i.e. "why did they use that camera angle", "no they are wrong, because I am right".... make your own fucking movies
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At least so far: "Deep down, Avatar is bone-headed, but it’s also beautiful — not just exciting and technically impressive, like Jurassic Park, but wondrous and exhilarating. How many movies can you say that about? It may be an inch deep, but it’s a mile wide, it gushes and roars like Niagara Falls, and it’s a sight to behold." http://www.decentfilms.com/sections/reviews/avatar.html
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The fact that Cameron does not answer this particular question is an epic fail, because it has such a HUGE effect on the morality of the story.
Are the humans acting on basic greed, or are they fighting for survival? It matters.
It wouldn't require very much time in the movie to answer this question. Sunshine answered that question in first 30 seconds of the movie. Two or three sentences of dialogue.
It's either:
1) Our planet is dying. We are out of energy. The human race will be extinct within a century, and unobtanium is the only thing that can save us.
OR...
2) Earth sucks. We've used up all the energy on the planet. If we don't figure out a solution then human society will never be the same. The fastest and easiest way to keep our society going is to mine unobtanium.
The first scenario means there's no hope, so maybe the humans aren't so evil after all. The second scenario means there are other options, like changing how society functions, or getting energy from some other source, or colonizing other planets, etc.
This unanswered question is the NUMBER ONE flaw with Avatar, as far as I'm concerned.
It implies that Cameron doesn't care. Not answering the question implies that he doesn't actually care if humanity went extinct. It's not just "the company" that's evil, it's all of humanity (except for the THREE people who stayed behind on Pandora?!).
That's a major hole in the story. Major. -
The bioluminiscence that all the Pandora creatures, plants and animals, have is due to the fact that Pandora spends a good portion of it's time at the shadow of the planet it's orbit. Of that ther eis an explanation. though i'm certaini know it more because of what Cameron said in an interview then as anything that is said in the movie.One interesting thing about the Na'vi which we never get to know is is they, like humans, have any curiosity about what happen in the sky above, and if they have curiosity about the stars. given their strong connection to the planet and all it's living things, would be a fair guess that for them there's nothing of interest in the sky above.
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Great quote, and i do think the guy did hit the nail in the head. Funy thing is, unlike many, the supposed "thin story" is not bothering me that much. Might be thin, but it was told with style, panache and intelligence. The story might be thin, but the world where it's set is rich and detailed.
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"Are the humans acting on basic greed, or are they fighting for survival? It matters."I agree. It seems, to me, that the inicial idea by Cameron was to have Earth as a dying world, but at the edting process, he decided that the human actions would be more about greed then desperation, aso so he cutted out all mentions of the troubles the humans were facing on Earth, so to make a clear and stronger point about corporation's greed. I would had prefered a bit more sophistication and greyer shades of morality in that subject myself.
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People said of the Phantom Menace, "Lucas created a fascinating world, but forgot to put characters in it." Could be said of Avatar as well. (Actually Avatar is much better, because at least it does not have *annoying* characters, like Jar Jar)
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You need to see it at least once. Yeah, the story is not Masterpiece Theatre, but who watches those anyway? But you gotta see it big and in 3-D just for the experience. Technically, it is a visual milestone. I find Avatar cheesy and embarrassing in some parts, but some parts I also love deeply. I plan to see it again on Imax for the second viewing. Not because it had cheesy parts, which it does, and makes me cringe a little just thinking about the scenes, but also because the experience was something no other film has given me is a long time.
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That wouldn't bother me because it wouldn't affect the internal logic of the story. A sci-fi storyteller is allowed to alter the laws of physics to suit the story being told. I have no problem with that. That's how we get The Force, and warp drive, and Constable Odo, and Data the android, and stuff like that. It's what makes sci-fi so rich.
However, once a storyteller makes that sort of change, I demand that they stick to it. That's what I mean by "internal logic". If you set up that a physical law is different in your fictional universe, I believe you have a duty to stay true to how that change affects the rest of your story. If you proceed to ignore the change you previously set up, that's when you fall into the trap of Deus Ex Machina or alien space bats.
To use The Force as an example: There's nothing wrong with The Force as a story element. But imagine if there was a moment where Luke could clearly save the day by using The Force but inexplicably chooses not to. If the director doesn't explain why he makes that choice then it's an epic fail. He would be violating the internal logic of the story.
In Avatar, the problem is that the internal logic of the story isn't at all clear. It's similar to the problem of HAL 9000's insanity. Until they retconned it in 2010, his psychotic behaviour doesn't really make a lot of sense. The problem isn't that that they included a super-intelligent computer in the movie. The problem is that the super-intelligent computer's behaviour violates the internal logic of the story. -
a huge helping hand from the 20 minutes of 2012 I watched while waiting for the movie to start. Roland Emerich is as subtle as John Tesh's forehead! Otherwise I enjoyed the movie from start to finish and didn't mind the lack of exposition on certain things, and I'm a sci-fi fan thru and thru but I don't need to have every last detail explained to me.
See, I have an unspoken understanding with Mr. Cameron that this movie will need me to get under it and suspend my disbelief if I wish to be entertained by it. He makes the movie and I supply the willingness to go along for the ride. Well lo-and-be-fucking-hold that's exactly what happened. So, if watching this movie makes you mad, you may be a "cause-hound" and need another outlet for your opinions. I would go with...oh, I don't know... maybe something that actually matters?! -
Royston... royston... royston...
You may feel like you had your internal logic violated. I my friend just allowed the film to wash over me in a most pleasurable way. Weaver's scientist alluded that the planet itself was 'connected' in a way she couldnt fully understand. Just accept that as your answer and move on son. It's only a movie.... -
Every movie is "just a movie". Do you like every movie you see? If not then you're talking bullshit.
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Royston, get your ass over to the 'science of Avatar' talkback which has sprung up while we've been arguing about the exact same thing!
ps. No I don't like every movie I see, but my faves are invariably fantasy/sci fi genre films which obviously require a good deal of suspension of disbelief. -
...but it tickled my prostate nonetheless. I loved it, when I wasn't cringing at the dialog or the "whole military vs the trees" storyline. I'm about as anti-war/anti-military as they come, but even I found this ludicrous. Looks like Cameron finally crossed that old-age creativity Rubicon that all directors cross.
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you get some pussy,REAL PUSSY.
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...it doesn't give the corporation the right to enslave or eradicate another intelligent race. If anything, a dying Earth makes the corporation even more amoral since they're not even humbled by the responsibility involved in trying to obtain by legal and/or moral means that which Earth needs to survive. Their focus on the bottom line becomes even more hideous.
If you think a dying Earth excuses the corporation, then you might as well be rooting for the aliens in ID4 or WoTW. No difference. -
Of Lang's character being over the top, it felt even more so since Giovanni Ribisi's character wasn't weasely enough? Sure they did a lot of typical corporate greed guy stuff with him. But they showed him toward the end backing off everything, he should have been as comically over the top as Lang was.
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Loved it.
I wrote an Avatar review here: http://gutsspill.blogspot.com/
In a nutshell, fuck yes. and more. -
been illogical that United Nations would hire a company which seeks only profit,to save Earth by obtaining the unobtainium.It would have been a worldwide common effort between the nations,(like in Deep Impact,ID4,WW2,etc).
Unobtainium would not have become an item of trading,it wouldnt have a price,it would have been acquired as it is,not bought,for the global good.
Unless ofc the future is so fuckedup that govermnents have been replaced by multi-corporations.which reminds me of something...hmmm -
Dec 21, 2009 12:13:30 PM CST
How can Harry Relate to Jake not being able to get his legs fixe
by series7
I guess Harry was a solider before all this?
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...does your epic doucheness know no bounds? Let's see...thin story...unexplained plot points...unrealistic sci fi elements...one dimensional characters...are you talking about Star Trek or Avatar? I get it now...one director you love and have no problem gargling his cock and taking a shot in the eye from...the other director you love/hate...but have no problem taking it in the ass from with a handful of sand and a jar of Vaseline for lube. Please fly to Amsterdam and get laid...if you can find a willing midget-tranny in one of the back alleys of the red-light district.
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"..The three arc story for Forbidden Planet.."Please explain.
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instead of his Avatar,after his first transfer.
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"imagine if Jake woke up in Harry's body"My goodness, what a terrible thought!
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You can't have any sex in privacy. Fucking air floatees and the trees are all peeking in on your action. And to say nothing of the flying lizard chilling under your bed. Too much "community" for my liking.
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...died? At first I thought she must be lockesbrokenleg, but I'm starting to worry...
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Can't wait to see that in the next aaron seltzer and jason friedberg comedy classic.
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and Neuteri made love in the forest where the 'spirits' of the Navi were communicating? it sounds to me like some dead Navi did some peeping.
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"The capitalism you defend no longer exists as such, it's a figure of the past."
Yeah, pretty much. Adam Smith's version of capitalism has much to commend it. But that isn't really what we've ended up with. We have klepto-capitalism, or corporatism, where parasite entities have hijacked the machinery of the state to deliver them easy money without really needing to provide goods and services that the market has demanded.
In many ways, we have the worst kind of socialism now: state responses deployed to absorb the losses of rich speculators and put them onto the backs of taxpayers.
It might be better if we had no central banks, but I think the libertarian mindset, although it has much to commend it, would not work in practice nearly as well as its proponents think. Local self-interest frequently generates collective action problems and tragedies of the commons. In many ways, one can regard civilization as the ongoing process of solving collective action problems in a way that still allows acceptable freedoms and innovations. -
The love story felt tacked on. It was just, "Okay, they're in love and mated for life now!" out of nowhere. It would've been nice to see an actual bond or relationship form between Jake and Neytiri instead of it just being tossed in as an afterthought. Their relationship felt completely platonic until, well, it wasn't and we were forced to go along with it. The dialog itself is not really the most well-written either, with some really questionable lines. I didn't dislike the overall story, but anyone who isn't 10000% completely aware that this is just a showcase for special effects is in total denial. Two more minor gripes: 1) Sam Worthington's dialect coach should never work again. I thought Hugh Jackman's accent slips were bad. Good grief. 2) How does Michelle Rodriguez continue to find work? Thank God her role was cut short.
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Robbing Pandora blind = saving Earth is like how the rainforest deforestation has the other side of its coin. Deforestation = employment for local Brazilians. Without the logging industry, Pedro doesn't feed his family, clothe them, or pay rent on his land. Save the rainforest, Pedro and his family starves. Environmentalists don't spend too much time worrying about the human side of the debate. Pedro worries about it, though.
Child labor... lay off all the kids, they go home unemployed, their families lose a source of income, and now little Enrico and his siblings are going hungry. But thank god little Enrico isn't picking bananas anymore! -
So, what you're saying is that any type of industry that keeps citizens employed is okay in your book? No matter what the cost?
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...and I liked the characters, but while others have said that after 10 minutes or so you see the Na'vi as real creatures, that part didn't work for me. Even after two hours I still thought they were CGI renderings in cartoon form. My loss, I guess, not to be able to be pulled into that world as real and existing. To me, although the film technology is light years beyond what has been done before, there are still problems. Their faces don't have quite enough emotional movement, their physical body actions look a little too scripted, the animals and plants, a little too imaginative to be real. I know, I know, nit picking. I would place this film as one of the best of the year and no doubt it will receive consideration from the academy but it is by far not as grittily realistic as "District 9", which, for me, was a better representation of human/alien contact. When the Na'vi were injured, it seemed like cartoon violence, but when the prawns of District 9 are injured it seemed real. Keep in mind, there are two very different films, with different scenarios and different outcomes, but for me, the main difference is that one seemed real and one didn't.
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I wish that, if there had to be a love between Sully and the Na'vi princess, that it would had remained platonic. Instead, we got kinky human/alien sex, which, frankly, is just this side of bestialism pervert. Had it remained platonic, it would had been a this kind of the meeting of kindred spirits, despsite the differences of spieces. Which would had been even more dramatic and impressive if the bloody Na'vi had been much more different from the humans then they are in the movie.
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There was no actual sex scene... just very tame foreplay and then morning after. Didn't even see any clothes removed. And clearly I'm a little disappointed by that.
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"But every time I mention his beloved Star Trekwars he flings crass insults at me, always the sign of a weak intelligence."How about the fact that you resort to denigrating a film/filmmaker to make your argument for Avatar? Weak intelligence indeed, Pot...Kettle...
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is a welcomed benefactor for humankind.
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It's good to see that a self-avowed capitalists like you are suspicious and unfriendly to the corporations. However, like most capitalism, you failed to understand a basic notion about socialism. Socialism have been trying to warn about and fight the excesses and dangers of corpotativist capitalism, of it's pervetions and exploitations and greeds. If there has been a problem about governments today is that they became too friendly to corporate capitalism, and there's too little "New Deal" type socialist measures to fight back and control the corporation monster. In europe they merged capitalism and socialism by creating the social-democracy ideal, which has worked quite well in many countries where it was really aplied. but even today it's ceading to corporative pressures and with politicians who are all too happy to go to get with the big corporations.
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I don't believe i do, friend.
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Oh c'mon... of course there was sex between Sully and the Na'vi peincess. There was no explicit sex scene, but it was heavily hinted and inplied. I mean, what you think they did all night? Lice nitpicking each other? They were fucking like cats.
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ejaculated also in his sleep-pod? see,who said Avatar doesnt bring philosophical questions?
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Dec 21, 2009 1:44:41 PM CST
Well, if I'm Sully'vi, I'm getting Neytiri catnip for Valentine'
by yackbacker
She's so easy to shop for, it's like the perfect relationship.
Asi, since you're a TREK fan of the highest order, didn't AVATAR evoke memories of "The Paradise Syndrome" for you too? I was waiting for Jake to scream out "I AM KIROK!" -
"Sam Worthington's dialect coach should never work again. I thought Hugh Jackman's accent slips were bad. Good grief."
I know this will feel a little facetious, but...exactly what accent SHOULD a 22nd century former marine of no stated nationality have? You think he should have an early 21st century American accent? -
Battle For Terra had the much better score. Really good animated film as well.
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No, I'm saying that it's not as open and closed of a case as people would have us believe.
If child labor is a clear-cut evil with no advantages, kids wouldn't be doing it and parents wouldn't send their kids off to do it.
After a few years, real life Navi would be wearing T-Shirts with brand names on them, helping The Company mine Unobtainium, and moving out of the villages and into human-made urban centers to sell goods and provide services for the humans. Catholics would come in and convert a butt load of them also.
However, I am aware that JC's point was that the Navi cannot extricate themselves from nature around them even if they tried. A Navi would probably die if he left Pandora to visit Earth, or be mentally screwed up by it. -
"It's good to see that a self-avowed capitalists like you"
Wow, I've never been called a self-avowed capitalist before.
I'm not sure that I am one...I was raised in a more socialist-leaning household. But I did a lot of reading about capitalism and markets, and started to see many fallacies in the arguments of the left. But after taking a rightward lurch in my political stance, I continued to think about these issues, and felt that the (so-called) capitalists were also peddling self-serving myths, although quite possibly believing them fully. Neither side's set of proclamations seemed to map onto reality very well. The socialists tended to overestimate people's capacity to do the right thing and take care of each other without strong personal incentives (non-trivial carrots and sticks with tight feedback loops), whereas the capitalists seemed to latch onto the idea that selfish behaviour will tend to build strong, vibrant and wealthy societies if left relatively unfettered, whereas history has shown us that powerful people, whilst they may have become powerful by providing goods and services that people wanted, often start to look for easier ways of maintaining that wealth, i.e. through monopolies and cartels, through bribery, through gaming the system from a position of information asymmetry or unfair influence on the levers of power.
The truth seems to be that we need strong and relatively uncorrupt governments to police the potential defections of agents in a free market economy. And safety nets - collective insurance, essentially - are frequently derided by capitalists, yet they would scream blue murder if you removed the principle of limited liability, which is essentially state-funded insurance against the full downside of failure or malpractice in a business venture. (Not that I would argue against limited liability: there are certain kinds of collective insurance that the state is likely to do much more efficiently than the private sector, and limited liability is one of them.) -
to turn off their brains when watching this movie. They, (including me) didn't expect a JC movie would require them to do that. I made the same mistake when watching the first Transformers and hated it. But when the second one came, I learned my lesson and enjoyed it tremendously. Only if I knew that it required me to turn off my brain, I would've likely had my eyeballs fucked just like everyone else. They should make these "turn off brain" prerequisites obvious in trailers. For example, the trailer for 2012. You know it's going to be ridiculous from the get go, and I enjoyed every moment of it.
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"heh then the drug,prostitute,slavery industry is a welcomed benefactor for humankind."
How do you figure?
Say what you will about slavery, but at least the owner has a responsibility to feed, clothe, and house his slaves. You and I have the freedom to either work or starve. -
how they dealt with the greed/capitalism mechanic. It wasn't unrealistic or overly done... instead, it was almost perfect. Was also very impressed with the special effects after seeing trailers that looked like cartoons.
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Oh yeah I know they boinked. I just thought we were going to see it. It's all Mike Russell's fault. That guy built up the sex scene like it was some hilarious, over the top thing... so I was fully expecting something ridiculous that would make the entire audience laugh... and then all that happened was she sat in his lap. No clothing removal, no thrusting, nothing. Cameron went the safer, tasteful, fade-to-black route (even though it sounds like I'm complaining, I'm not; I think he made the right decision).
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Original Sun. estimate called for a 20% decline which turned out to be a 10% decline...many people who were snowed in Sat. came out Sun. as well as many school systems are out for the holiday break which caused Sun. to perform more like Sat.
$77.3 million weekend is a hair better than the $77.2 million of 'I Am Legend'...not bad for a picture with no headlining stars that's a non-sequel. -
I'm surprised no one got the joke.
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you know when they use kids in 3rd world coutnries,as sex toys for the desires of the rich fucktards of the civilized western world.Ask Polanski's french minister of culture,he knows about this stuff.
they feed and clothe them alright,but they have stolen their souls forever. -
If child labor is a clear-cut evil with no advantages, kids wouldn't be doing it and parents wouldn't send their kids off to do it.
I am sure there advantages to having your widow screaming on your funeral pyre as was (and is) occasionally still done in India, though I'm not sure what they are, otherwise why do that too.
Child labor is wrong, only slightly less wrong than the family starving to death, so maybe let's fix the starving thing so the kid can go to school and be a child and not a vacant eye'd cog in the machine.
Stealing from the Nav'i in the context of the film as wrong and while a dying people may do just about anything to survive, they brought that fate on themselves by raping Earth before moving on to do the same to Pandora.
Capitalism isn't always evil, but it is always amoral. What maters is what is done to make that buck and who suffers. -
The humans come back with a bigger army, and the Na'vi need to get help from the Foo'gla, an alien race from the planet Kloontakun. As with how the Na'vi are connected to their planet Pandora, Pandora is connected to Foo'gla but wirelessly. In ancient Na'vi folklore, there's a story where there is a distant cousin to their race that came from a far away land where they once has regular contact, but for some reason the Foo'gla stopped contacting them.
It's Jake's job to go and find the planet Kloonkatun and get the Foo'gla's help. To get to Kloonkatun, he needs human technology, so Sigourney and Jake go back to earth, but along the way, they are sucked into a black hole and turn up in front of a strange planet, more beautiful than Pandora (more stuff for Cameron to work on). And as it turns out, the planet is Kloonkatun. The Foo'gla have been monitoring the ongoings in Pandora and know a huge human army is on their way.
But it is revealed that fighting the humans is not the correct path to take. It seems that ALL planets are connected wirelessly, and humans on Earth have lost their way because they have destroyed their planet. So we need to revive their planet and give the humans a second chance. But to do that requires Pandora and Earth to merge into one huge planet. And Na'vi and humans will live side by side on the same planet. However, merging planets takes time and the idea of sacrificing their planet and share it with the Na've and live in primitive ways isn't very appealing to the humans.
So, the general in charge of the huge army heading for Pandora decides to attack anyway, and the Na'vi and the Foo'gla join forces to fight the huge human armada. In the end, the human army is decimated and the process off merging planet starts. The End. It gives room for a final part of a trilogy. -
Dec 21, 2009 3:19:27 PM CST
quantize what about the people who went in wanting to LOVE IT
by slappy jones
yet came out hating it more then any film they have seen this year?? like me. I love Cameron. I love Weta. I love sci fi. I love action. I was ready and pumped but I hated it. I am sorry but once this thing hits home on dvd and is seen completely in 2D and oin smaller screens people are going to turn their opinions on this film faster then...well...umm....something that is very fast. the dialogue is beyond belief, the acting is appalling by pretty much every one. I am jealous of those who got something out of it. But after all these years of everyone going on about CG overload and films being nothing but CG fests with no story to give this film a pass for some reason is a sight to behold as this is every bit as bad as all the other films that charge is levelled at. In fact worse because it thinks its important.
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"If child labor is a clear-cut evil with no advantages, kids wouldn't be doing it and parents wouldn't send their kids off to do it."
Here's someone who's actually defending the notion of child labor and slavery with the specious argument that if there weren't any advantages and it was evil, it wouldn't exist.
Wow, just fucking wow... -
I'm not a trek fan of the highest order. I only know TOS in full, and only that, and i have only seen it whole only once, and only this year. That hardly makes me a hugh trek fan. There are far better qualified people for such a title.
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How many fucking times do I have to read you lecturing us on what we should like? If you don't like it, move the fuck on and talk about something you do like. Obsessing over why people liked something that you didn't is beyond childish. And when this movie does hit home, it will be in Blu Ray 3-D. The new Blu Ray format that's hitting the consumer market in 2010. So we'll still be enjoying it in glorious 3D. Muhahahhahaha you fucking lamer. And Fuck WETA too.
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...as opposed to virtually every other fantasy or sci-fi flick in recent years, is the amount of odious, crypto-fascist assholes it's brought out of the woodwork and into TB.
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Just been busy doing busy stuff.
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Everyone knows he praises movies that he has some level of access to, and pans the movies that ignore his little website.
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stop expecting to see the movie,you already have created in your mind.
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COWBELLS
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Seems i misunderstood you. I'm sorry.
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Dec 21, 2009 3:56:41 PM CST
I SEE YOU... and I See You > I'll never let go Jack
by jeangrey_x23_lesbosex
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We're only bringing up moral questions. You're the one proclaiming "universal moral truths" without backing them up with any actual rational argument. You're the one putting words in our mouth by claiming we're endorsing slavery and genocide.
You're argument seems to be, "who cares if the Na'vi number less than a million and the human race numbers in the billions. Humans are evil. Fuck em."
So who's actually endorsing fictional genocide here? -
That would be the most annoying couple at a party, ever.
Ok, maybe if they were sayin, "no, I see YOU, Shmoopy," it'd be a bit more annoying...
Heh heh heh... -
Love it or hate it, I can't wait til AVATAR gets the RIFFTRAX treatment!
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I'm frequently misunderstood.
(Stares into sunset stoically, the wind whipping the hair about his face.) -
dress in style, strike a pose, rule the room.
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Bullshit. Read that guy's quote again.
As for universal truths and endorsing "fictional genocide", would you find it morally acceptable if a nation on Earth, having depleted its natural resources, decided to invade another country for the sole purpose of exploiting its resources and grinding its native population underfoot just to keep itself alive? -
Just because we number in the billions doesn't give us the right to take from another race. We've already run our natural course on our natural world. Time to say sayonara.
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Dec 21, 2009 4:17:19 PM CST
IF YOU FUCKERS WOULD TURN OFF THE LIGHTS ONCE IN A WHILE
by bringingsexyback
we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Firstly, We're talking about a species on an entire planet. I think the morality of what an entire species does to survive when it gets to the stage of its development where it can travel to other planets is different than the morality of how nations interact on a single planet.
Secondly, when a nation is threatened with destruction I do believe the morality of the situation is hardly open-and-shut. I find it hard to believe that it would be the morally-correct choice to force an entire nation to commit suicide. -
...are invited to lead by example.
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The upside is that Michael Bay will also die and he stops making his fucking movies. Imagine if we spreaded throughout the stars,a dn forced other alien civilizations to watch his movies. We could start an intergalactic war. Maybe the human race dying out is a good thing, galactic-wise.
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They might invade and destroy us for that abomination. Hehe
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Certainly you can agree that mankind is not operating at it's best. We could do so much better.
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is spinning in his grave right now.
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Yeah, like ME.Worshiped TOS as I grew up. Appointment TV for EVERY episode since TNG, including Enterprise. Opening day for EVERY movie. Every Videogame, and a shitload of books.Loved Star Trek 09, and you sir, are a loon.
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the original one? where aliens want to annihilate the human race in order to save their own worlds? You see human race was not advanced to pose a threat to them,but the aliens knew that eventually,humans would progress technologically enough and be able to travel to stars,thus becoming a real threat to the alien's existence,since the [self]-destructive nature of the humans never stopped to exist.
Following their logic and their instict of survival,they decided to kill humanity before it becomes a real threat to them.How do you consider this action of theirs? is it morally justified? do you agree with it or would you yell to give to human race a chance to follow its natural evolution? -
"I find it hard to believe that it would be the morally-correct choice to force an entire nation to commit suicide."
But for it to commit genocide is okay? -
expensive CGI explosions IMAX 3D 3D that doesn't poke you in the face (game-changing)greatest video game ever retarded cliche unoriginal boring derivative story heavy handed unoriginal predictable cheesy eco anti-war liberal themes unoriginal one dimensional boring predictable hammy characters boring unoriginal cliche retarded cheesy predictable dialogue Sounds like the greatest movie of all time...
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I freaking loved this movie. It totally blew me away. You know the movie we were all hoping for, but wasn't realized with the release of Star Wars, Episode I? Well, with Avatar, Cameron gives us all not only what we were hoping for, but even more than what we were expecting! When I read the scriptment for this film 10 years ago, I didn't think it would ever get made. It was just going to be too impossible, too expensive, too massive to ever be made into a film. Well, I was right then, but Cameron has proved me wrong now. Technology has caught up and the film is absolutely brilliant! The film is not only visually stunning, but wonderfully immersive: I did not, for one second, not believe that I was on Pandora. And to those who say the story is too simplistic, I say this: better to have a story that I know and can relate to, than some meaningless techno-drivel that is lacking a heart and soul. And this film is all about heart and soul. Sure the technology of the film itself is revolutionary, and the technology that surrounds the characters is awesome, but there is a deep spirituality in the film that is lacking in the coldness of similar SFX extravaganzas. (I'm looking at you George Lucas and Michael Bay!)
I was very moved by the film and I could honestly relate to the tough ethical and moral choices made by all of the characters. Avatar is a monumental film, not only for the incredible technological achievement, but also to the return of genuine, heartfelt and mythical storytelling. I will be seeing this film in IMAX 3D more than once this year. Like Jake Sully, it's going to have some serious legs! And by the way, in an interesting side-note, the young man seated next to me in the theater was, of all things, a paralyzed Marine. (I shit you not!) His take on the film: "One of the best movies I've ever seen!" I agree, brother! Semper Fi! -
Hey Drew, how's it goin'? If you're gonna use sockpuppet fake user ID's, you should really change up your flaming style. Too recognizeable after your countless flame wars on here. Get tired of using "arteska"? Nice shaved head twitterpic. Ooo you look so scary. LOL @ you, Tool.
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Of course I agree with that statement.
But can you agree that the punishment for said behaviour maybe, just maybe, shouldn't be collective suicide?
That's why the question that I asked that spawned this whole debate is, "in Avatar, is the Earth truly dying or isn't it?" -
"Loved Star Trek 09"I'm so fucking sorry that you are suffering from such a terrible ailment. I hope you get well soon.
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e.g. the fucking yelping like native americans keeps popping into my mind making me cringe.
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And the real moral of that story is 'might makes right".
The aliens are more powerful than the humans, so they have the right to wipe humanity from the face of the Earth.
You endorse that position? -
"That's why the question that I asked that spawned this whole debate is, "in Avatar, is the Earth truly dying or isn't it?""Well, the movie is not terribly clear about that, is it? My own suspicion is that that would be the case, that Earth is slowly dying and that the unobtanium mineral is fundamental to keep things going. But at the editing stage, Cameron decided to cut out all those clues about Earth's imminent disaster. The reason why, i suspect, is to not make Sully look like a nihilistic mysantrope, and to make the genocidical actions of the corporation stooges more clear-cut evil, instead as the actions of desperate people. That's my take on it.
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"That's why the question that I asked that spawned this whole debate is, "in Avatar, is the Earth truly dying or isn't it?""Well, the movie is not terribly clear about that, is it? My own suspicion is that that would be the case, that Earth is slowly dying and that the unobtanium mineral is fundamental to keep things going. But at the editing stage, Cameron decided to cut out all those clues about Earth's imminent disaster. The reason why, i suspect, is to not make Sully look like a nihilistic mysantrope, and to make the genocidical actions of the corporation stooges more clear-cut evil, instead as the actions of desperate people. That's my take on it.
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Sorry for the multiple posts.
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How is "forced suicide" anything other than simply another way of saying "genocide"?
Your analogy about the two nations does not fit the situation presenting by Avatar, at any rate. Here's a better analogy.
Let's say the ENTIRE population of the Earth was going to DIE, except for Fiji. Fiji, you see, has JUST discovered that it's only place on Earth where Magic Beans grow. Magic beans, you see, have the ability to save the population of the Earth.
So, the rest of the Earth says to Fiji, could you spare some beans?
Fiji says, "fuck you. You brought it on yourselves cuz you aren't as good as the Fijians."
Truthfully, that is NO LESS plausible than the situation that may be presented to us in Avatar, IF it's true that humanity is doomed and IF the Earth has NO OTHER option than to mine obtanium.
That's A LOT of "ifs". Those "ifs" are my biggest problem with the movie. -
The only thing I'd call him on is the far too basic black & white heroes and villains. The Navi are good as can be, while the humans are pure evil. Ribisi'scharacter is greedy for the sake of being greedy. And the Colonel is practically a cartoon cut-out villain. He virtually twiddled his moustache and cackled the whole time. A little more rounded villains and Cameron would have had a shot at Oscar numero dos.
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"That's why the question that I asked that spawned this whole debate is, "in Avatar, is the Earth truly dying or isn't it?""The movie is not terribly clear about that, is it?I suspect that at some point when they were making the movie, the idea was that yes indeed the Earth is dying, and that the unobtanium is imperative for the survival of the human race. But during the editing stage, all references to that were cut out of the movie and left on the cutting floor.The reason why, i suspect, is so to not make Jake Sully look like a nihilist mysoginist, and to make the genocidical actions of the corporate stooges more clear-cut evil. That's my take on it.
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I've been reading his flames towards you and at first I thought that was Drew but I was confused because he didn't have the black box but I think you nailed him. Plus, I get the 'joke' now. TheJokesOnUs is that he is really Moriarty. Sorry, Drew, you overplayed your hand. Your flaming style really is that distinctive, bro.
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to make the genocidical actions of the corporate stooges more clear-cut evil instead as the actions of a desperate people fighting for their own survival.
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You're right, same flaming style. Plus, I get the 'joke' now. TheJokesOnUS because it's really McWeeney. You totally nailed him, bro. Good call.
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first one didn't show that it had posted for some reason
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I can't help agreeing with you. A little more ambiguity would had made wonders for this movie. They could had done that without sacrificing much the intended simplicity of the story (i said simplicity, not simplistic).
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But someone else argued that it doesn't matter, and that even if the Earth is truly doomed is does not justify raiding Pandora.
I don't argue the opposite, but I do argue that it is hardly such a clear-cut question.
Did the humans say to the Na'vi, "say, you guys have this mineral we need because our entire race of billions of people is going to die without it. Wanna help us out?" We don't know. Cameron never tells us.
Even if the Earth is dying, will unobtanium solve the problem, or is it just a stop-gap measure? We don't know. Cameron never tells us.
Since humanity is capable of inter-stellar travel, is there a reason why humanity cannot colonize a DIFFERENT planet? We don't know. Cameron never tells us.
All Cameron tell us is "humans are evil and Na'vi are good." That's not a lot to go on.
I had the same problems with Star Trek: Insurrection, by the way. The plot of that movie was freakishly similar to the one in Avatar. Except of course that the Federation wasn't sentenced to extinction at the end of it. -
I mean, really. At the end of the day.
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Here we go again: Were the aliens justified in their decision to eliminate human race,in order to protect their worlds from the future human threat? yes,no,maybe and why?
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Always hilarious when the sick deem others so. Asi, you may be bat-shit insane, but are always good for a giggle.Shine on you crazy diamond.
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Anyone ZombieHeath doesn't like is a "Drew". He thinks it's very funny, and he often uses it as a defense when losing an argument (so, all the time).
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Theoretically, if you accept the internal logic of The Day The Earth Stood Still, and the human race WAS going to become a threat to the rest of the galaxy, then yes. As a matter of fact, I do. In theory.
Ask one of the humans who is going to be obliterated, and the answer will be no, of course not.
But if the aliens could predict with absolute certainty that humanity WOULD be a significant threat to their very existence, then yes they would have a duty to protect themselves.
But just like in Avatar, that depends on a lot of 'ifs".
If it isn't certain that humanity would turn out to be an existential threat, and the aliens were just overreacting out of panic because they were told by their alien president that we had weapons of mass destruction that could destroy the entire galaxy, in THAT case the answer would be no.
My point is that these sorts of questions depend on WAY more variables than are provided to us in Avatar. -
... if the aliens have the ability to wipe humanity off the face of the Earth, whether or not its the moral thing to do will be quite moot. The humans would be dead. There would be no humans left to debate the question.
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...in Avatar, the only reason the Na'vi win the war is because they're saved by Deus Ex Machina.
If not for that, the humans would have won, and the point would have been moot. -
to kill the humans,if indeed they were a threat for them in the future.ok then.
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They shoulda had em, but then Avatar really would have just been Battle For Terra. (a not bad film in it's own right)
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That's correct.
If the aliens can predict with 100% certainty that the humans are a 100% existential threat, AND they can predict with 100% certainty that there is NO other option but to eliminate the threat through force, then yes. But that's a lot of "ifs".
Also, I'm also saying that even if they aren't "morally-justified", at least from the point of view of one of the humans about to be obliterated, the question is moot if there are no humans left to debate the morality of the act. If there's nobody to discipline the aliens for their immoral act, then it's neither moral not immoral. It's a moot question. But again, that's a big "if".
After all, I'm not God. -
...I actually did LIKE Avatar.
That point may have been missed in all this kerfuffle. -
during most of the movie people were extremely quiet through out theater. Through out the movie I was trying to hold back my laughter at how bad the story was, because I try to respect other people in the theater. What you may think of as terrible may be good to someone else. But once jake sully and the na'vi girl said i see you, me and my girlfriend busted out laughing at how incredible lame this was. Then for the rest of the movie people all over started giggling at the movie. There was a family with elementary age kids, and the elementary kids couldn't stop laughing during the last act of the movie. You know the movie is bad when elementary age kids can realize how bad the story is
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There was nothing wrong with the dialogue, and the story may have been derivative, but it was still solid.
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I've only ever seen ZHL call TheJokesOnYou "Drew." And I was just pointing out that I think he's right based on how much his flames sound like the shit Mori used to spew daily around here.
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i can not see it
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This is an even closer analogy. Aliens fuck up their homeworld and want to start strip mining Earth for stuff to help themselves out a little. Well their mining methods are going to knock out our internets (like the bionetwork on Pandora). I would tell those aliens to fuck off and viva la resistance.
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Come on people, once the shock and awe of the effects die down the story stays with you and you realise how multi-layered it was. The whole tension created by him being in the pod whilst his avatar was fighting. I was always wondering when they would find the real Jake Sully. The whole story of him being disabled was a stroke of genius. The scene where he first runs outside as the Avatar was really joyous. The themes in the film. The network created on Pandora by nature. The way everything was connected. People today are becoming too cynical and forgetting to enjoy the stories and naratives that are part of our legends. Its badly made movies that are starting to destroy these plots. This movie is one of the best made event movies I have seen. Walking through the jungles of Pandora with the Avatars was like nothing I had experienced on screen. James Cameron you are a creative genius. I have seen it twice and I am obsessed with Pandora. I am buying the game today and will see it again.
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And we'd be morally justified. But if fucking up our planet is the ONLY way for this alien race to save their own civilization, then maybe they're also morally-justified and it's really just a question of winner-takes-all.
I'd LIKE to think the aliens would be nice enough to ASK for our help first before declaring war, so that MAYBE we could find a way for BOTH species to survive happily.
If that's not possible, then I'm not going to say the aliens are "immoral", but I WILL shoot at them. -
. . . is now desperately trying to figure out how to eliminate people like you so he can curtail the sale of Avatar toys. Heh heh heh...
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I remember a bumber sticker that i saw once that said "cancer is the cure for man.." I laughed at it for a minute but than it made me think..I guess thats what those things are supposed to do..
I do think though in the D.T.E.S.S. the robot Gort was the master over the aliens because they gave him the power to annilhate any agressive actions that threatened the existence of the "body" or consortium of aliens in the film with Klatuu as their emmisary..If might makes right is correct than so is the needs of the many out weighing the needs of the few scenario.. -
If in it the humans are basically fighting for our species' survival. But watching the movie you don't get that sense of desperation at all you have some executive and his lackeys grasping at corporate profits.
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I have read thru these critiques -- wow - I was wondering if you saw the same movie... The full 440 IMAX 3D I saw it in clapped for two minutes after it was over -- guess you guys were not at that show... One of the best movies I have seen in a long time and Harry, although I don't agree with you always, John Carter were my favorite novels in the 1980's -- and this took me back to that time.. The Story was SOLID -- The only thing I was sad about was that I would LOVE for Cameron to do John Carter -- but Pixar/Disney should do ok .... I hope... As for the haters, I don't get it, This was the first live action graphic novel, and it was superb... in every way possible...
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So, you're an elementary school child, say no more.
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Dec 21, 2009 7:31:47 PM CST
$242.5 million is the adjusted total for the opening weekend..
by mr dark
Not bad that this can make back more than half its cost in three days.. that is amazing .. these numbers will only get better..While I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion this makes the Haters look like first class morons as far as judging what the public likes or wants too see, and makes James Cameron look like a freakin genius in giving people what they want..They don't make movies for knitpicking, over analitical, wiseass jackoffs that hate anything with a positive message anymore... they just can't afford to do that and turn a profit..oh yes and god forbid the film leans to the left for fear of upsetting some tight assed mother fucking conservative blowhards... must not have that no siree. I say Mr. Cameron really nailed this and the sore losers and haters can post all day long and it won't change a goddamn thing...Game over man..game over..
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with farts and burps.i wouldnt take their reaction to movie as a serious indication of its quality.
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I like how you are thinking of moral choices.
Looking at the inability of our leaders to currently make any tough choices (re climate change), think we will go on consuming, using without little thought for the future.
Clearly the motive for any company is all about profit (and why pure capitalism is a scary scary thought). Whilst the company in Avatar clearly wanted to keep their image untarnished (i.e. trying diplomatic means), when push came to shove they used mercenary forces to ensure profit was made.
What would been interesting, is instead of it being a company trying to acquire this substance for profit, would have been if it was the 2154 equivalant of the United Nations trying to acquire it for saving the Earth, which I am sure would have already been covered in some Star Trek episode.
Looking at Aliens and this, I think we can assume that the future James Cameron is painting is that of pure capitalism, where profit rules above all else (i.e. Jake not getting the treatment we need), and very different from the socialist world that is Star Trek.
Star Trek is meant to be 300 years in the future, Avatar is 150, hopefully it doesn't take 300 years for us (humans) to grow up, but I don't have a lot of confidence. -
So, what's it like knowing that you and elementary school kids giggle at the same stuff?
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Dec 21, 2009 7:44:09 PM CST
Oscars will now be based on what elementary school kids think
by miyamoto_musashi
Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel, is the early favourite.
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This type of film was meant for dare I say PG-13 and up..Not under educated mini-mouthbreathers that giggle during the film because they hear someone else giggle at some shit they are incapable of understanding... giggling is a common reaction to not understanding what is being said or not having the intellect to comprehend it. or maybe they just thought it was fucking funny..who knows and who cares..kids are behind the eight ball these days and it's only getting worse..
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Dec 21, 2009 7:50:28 PM CST
Seeing some guy is calling Avatar a box office failure
by miyamoto_musashi
Seems to think the world consists entirely of the USA and thats it.
If anyone hasn't travelled outside of the US, I can confirm that we do have electricity and running water and yes even cinema screens. -
...humanity in Avatar ISN'T doomed to extinction. Just because the company is evil, does that mean humanity has no right to fight for its own existence?
Jake alludes to the Earth as a dying planet at two points in the movie. Does he mean that literally, or is he just talking out his Jarhead butt?
I say the answer to that question makes a huge difference. It would have required a single sentence of dialogue to make it clear.
We also do not know if unobtanium is humanity's ONLY hope for survival. That also makes a difference. It would have required a single sentence of dialogue to make that clear.
If humanity in Avatar is doomed and there is no other way to ensure its survival, then I do not care if the company is evil as long as they get the job done.
If there is another way for humanity to survive but they sent the company anyway because it was the easier choice, then in that case I agree with those who say "fuck humanity". Again, it would have required a single sentence of dialogue. -
Humanity isn't doomed in AVATAR.
It's made perfectly clear in an almost too on-the-nose exposition speech given by Giovanni Ribisi early in the film when he picks up a piece of unobtainium and holds it up in Sigourney's face, saying "This is why we're here, because this little gray rock sells for twenty million a kilo."
It's all about the money for the company. That's made very clear. -
...but I concede that it's a question that cannot be answered without resorting to the original script or by asking Mr. Cameron himself, so I will finally let it go.
Now, moving on to other business:
How many licks does it take to get to the centre of a Tootsie Pop? -
the negotiations were all about trying to buy the stuff essentially, was there any pleading on humanitarium grounds ?
My view is that we have screwed the place up, 150 more years of overconsuming, overpopulation, no more forests, more pollution etc, very much like the world of Blade Runner.
That may be a line that you really need to hear, but for me it I was fine without it. Its another display of our "great" human nature, and our inability to learn , as was the case with District 9 another great display of human nature. -
Yeah I have a massive Star Wars collection and seeing this film did make me want to start an Avatar Collection. I feel the concepts in this movie are that strong. George should not only worry about losing licensing sales but also worry that his prequel movies have been made to look twice as bad by this. Even though I did enjoy the prequels. Some of the best effects in them (Yoda) have been made to look standard by the massive scale that this film has achieved in effects.I think he should be scrambling back to the ranch to try and reinvent Star Wars using this technology. I can see a massive space battle over Coruscant in full Imax3D. Maybe this time hire a good director and the assistance of a excellent modern script write to bring back the fun (and darkness) in Star Wars. As for Avatar, bring on a sequel!!!!
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Tootsie Pop!
Heh heh heh... -
I agree that the movie suggests a Blade Runner dystopian future for Earth. However in Blade Runner it was 2019 which is where Ridley foresaw us going in 1980. I guess Cameron has been a bit more generous here as have many other modern sci-fi creators with the time gap. The major theme in all of this is sustainability and the ability for humans to consume at the cost of everything, no mater how important or beautiful. Once our our survival instincts kick in you had better look out! It was interesting to watch the different opinions portrayed. The military, the company, the natives and the scientists all had a say in this film.
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Well it's nice to know the movie has a sense of humor..err...that's supposed to be *intentionally* funny, right?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium
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I mean, this is a future where medicine has gotten so advanced, they can heal a broken back or completely remove severe scar tissue, not to mention clone human/alien hybrids.
Even IF the Earth would be running out of resources, humanity isn't dependent on the resources found on the Earth because they've mastered space travel and are gathering material from other planets.
Besides, doesn't Quaritch refer to Venezuela as "some mean bush"? Sounds to me there's still jungle back home. -
...to enjoy this movie? I mean, how much do I need to amp up my nerd-level to fully appreciate this movie's total awesomeness?
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Dec 21, 2009 8:32:37 PM CST
FeralAngel feels there's very little Avatar in this Avatar
by feralangel
However, there's a lot of Astro Boy in this Astro Boy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODlQ9Wzrsi0&feature=related
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Marc Okrand, the father of Klingon Language, created the Navi language for the movie.
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Hey-oh!
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That was Perez Hilton, a complete failure of a human being. The film opened to 77 million and is on track to hit at least 300 mil US, and above 700 WW. Concievably a lot more.
The biggest box office risk in history is going to turn a major profit before it leaves theatres. Sequels are guaranteed.
HA. -
Dec 21, 2009 8:43:50 PM CST
Steroid Stephen Lang could kick Arnold's Soft Wrinkly ass
by picardsucks
Wow
What Star Trek could have been. Hope JJ is taking notes. Not sure if it will carry over on Blu-ray. Not every single thing worked in terms of realism which is understandable considering it's scope. But it delivered the goods in terms of a thought provoking story, characters you invest in and of course the most stunning visual experience ever. My only hangup is the portrail of the military as bloodthirsty villians but I suppose it all served the story. Beautiful film all in all. And Juice enhanced Stephen Lang could kick the crap out of Arnold all day long. If they ever make The Dark Knight Returns we found our older Bruce Wayne. Not just an amazing experience something to debate for years to come -
...nobody was impaled with a blunt greased pole through the anus and out the mouth.
And I bet you thought I'd forgotten about that! Yeehaa! -
Dec 21, 2009 8:50:07 PM CST
"might as well be rooting for the aliens in ID4 or WoTW"
by ebonic_plague
I believe the applicable term here would be "OH SNAP!"
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Wow
What Star Trek could have been. Hope JJ is taking notes. Not sure if it will carry over on Blu-ray. Not every single thing worked in terms of realism which is understandable considering it's scope. But it delivered the goods in terms of a thought provoking story, characters you invest in and of course the most stunning visual experience ever. My only hangup is the portrail of the military as bloodthirsty villians but I suppose it all served the story. Beautiful film all in all. And Juice enhanced Stephen Lang could kick the crap out of Arnold all day long. If they ever make The Dark Knight Returns we found our older Bruce Wayne. Not just an amazing experience something to debate for years to come -
...and the aliens said, "fuck you."
Makes a difference. They're clearly just assholes.
Also, I don't know if the aliens in War of the Worlds were "morally-justified" or not. We're never really told WHY they attack the Earth. Doesn't mean I won't shoot at them.
I don't believe an enemy has to be "wrong" to still be my enemy. If that were the case, then it would be wrong to defend oneself against a tiger. The tiger's not doing anything "wrong", but that doesn't mean I'm just gonna let it eat me.
DAMN IT! I SAID, OTHER BUSINESS!!! -
in my cinema, all the aliens had a blue tint to them.
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Doesn't "...some mean bush..." refer to Venezuelan women?
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..."how come the picture's all blurry?"
I had to tell him to go back to the front door and pick up his 3D glasses.
I don't know if he didn't realize that it was a 3D movie, or if he didn't realize that you need special glasses to watch a 3D movie.
Either way, I laughed so hard a little bit of pee came out... -
...just don't do it.
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And later I accidentally walked in on it on the john furiously jacking off to a vision of me emerging topless from its pool.
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I want to have sex with a blue alien girl
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I didn't quite see the characters in such black and white terms of "ggod and evil." Lang's Quaritch was a hardcore military man, but he was a honest about what he was doing on Pandora: get the goods for humanity and do his job by any means necessary. And if some 10 foot blue aliens get in the way? Fuck 'em! (He was also honorable on his word: he promised Sully new human legs and he was ready to deliver on that promise, before Jake refused.) On the flip-side, Sully just couldn't live with himself or justify destroying another race so he could regain his human legs merely so that humanity could get a rare mineral. Humanity squandered what they had on Earth, would destroying an entire species justify their need? It's a tough question. Ultimately, Jake's answer was, "No". I think a lot of the humans in the film had a "what the hell did we just do?" moment after the destruction of the Na'vi tree. Lots of sickened, guilty faces, both among the scientists and the military. Even Selfridge is looking pretty ashamed of his actions, especially at the end, when he can't look any of the Na'vi in the eyes. Sure, there were some over-the-top, jingo-istic jarheads, but I really think that's common, especially in war and extreme circumstances: you've got to psyche yourself up for the battle and the matter at hand, if not, you're gonna die. I think it was a delicate balance that Cameron was able to achieve in the film and I don't think it was so clear-cut as "good vs. evil". After all, both are really just moral concepts, not mindsets. I mean, I don't think even Adolph Hitler woke up every morning and said, "Man, I am just so fucking EVIL!" Anyway, I didn't see the characters on either side as "good or evil". But the humans really did fuck things up diplomatically in a major way, and then got their asses handed to them. (It was their version of "Custer's last stand".) I often wonder how things might have been different historically if Native Americans had greeted Columbus with machine guns instead of bows and arrows? Sometimes, might does not make right...
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the Charlie Rose interview BTW. I actually really enjoyed the experience but I'm really dissapointed with the lack of plot twists and depth in the main characters. AVATAR would be a new Aliens or SW if it had some attention to character development arc and developent. I bummed out with this: However I loved the experience of the world so much.... A+ to the EFX crew.
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Watched Hurt Locker over the weekend, and hopefully some real marines, or army guys can tell me, if that was a realistic portrayl. But for me it seemed pretty realistic, a lot of the guys were thinking what the hell am I doing here, I don't want to be here.
Would imagine that a lot of the guys in Vietnam were thinking that too.
And am sure even the guys in WW2 which in the case of Europe was much more black and white about liberating Europe, would still have been mixed. -
Why don't you two pedantic sacks of shit get a room and go fuck yourselves. No one gives a flying fuck about your uninformed hyperbolic rhetoric and entirely MUNDANE fucking pontificating about what constitutes science fiction. You two fucks are experts on and informed in SHIT. Bonafied stools whores.
This Avatar mess is a Craptastic PRETTY piece of fucking flotsam. Half baked, half ass and half decent. The ONLY redeeming quality this hackneyed piece of shit film will hopefully serve is expanding the 3D tech library of films coming. That was the gimmick suck asses, that's it. Without the 3D this fucking naked Emperor would be absolutely squat and you fucks know it. How the fuck can you rant and rave about a film that has been filmed 50 fucking times before?? Patriot, Dances with Wolves, Braveheart,Last of the Mohicans...fuck you idiots! You God damn World of warcraft morons blatantly expose yourselves as the homos you are. OHHHH it has mech suits, BEST. Fucking. Movie. EVER.
This film fucking sucked. It was bland, uninspiring, uncreative, and a pretty polished turd in gold wrapping. You fucks know it. -
Star Trek kicked the blue smurfs right in their Pandoric sacks.
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Avatar 3D, or fucking STAR TREK 3D,
or better yet- pretty much ANY other science fiction film in 3D other than Dances with blue people. -
I don't care what the themes are, the subtext blah blah blah.
I simply did not care for the characters. Not once was I on the edge of my seat. It just wasn't exciting, romantic, adventurous or all that fun. It was a very mediocre film with fantastic visuals. -
You KNEW they were going to fall in love. You knew the military guy was going to die horribly. It was predictable, yet, interesting to watch.
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neytiri rules,i keep reading how neytiri's anuish over jake lying to them was cheesy,well i guess i am just a cornball, the voice work by zoe really moved me,i think thats the difference between looking to enjoy something and looking to drag something down,i went in looking to be swept up in awesomeness..and i was..don't get me wrong if it sucked,i would have come here and said it sucked..AVATAR did not suck..was actually awesome
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Not about Avatar, hell, I haven't seen it yet, but he was sure as hell WRONG about Astro Boy. People are making incredible tribute videos about it on Youtube. Here's the latest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97oikMFiEJ8 Now that's devotion, dudes.
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However teh story is predictable, by the numbers and came in weaker than I was expecting. I figure it's because cameron is holding back to drag it out into Avatar 2 and 3. 2nd film will feature Earth mroe and another campaign to retake Pandora. 3 will feature Pandora's destruction.
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SPOILERS HERE- because really, there is no longer an AVATAR situation happening by the end of the movie.
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You were wrong. Kindly stfu in the future when you think you know shit about movies that haven't come out yet. You are a fucking embarrassment to our human race, and need to atone for your douchiness.
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I WAS WRONG? LMAO EVERYTHING THE HATERS HATED ON IN THE TRAILER WAS PRESENT THROUGHOUT THE "FILM" CARDBOARD CHARACTERS CHECK CHEESY DIALOGUE CHECK SAM WORTHINGTON IS FREE AMBIEN CHECK BLUE THUNDERSMURFS HOOOOOO CHECK BORING ASS DEJA VU STORY CHECK THE SCORE EVEN SOUNDED STOLEN FROM ANOTHER MOVIE ANYONE KNOW WHAT IM STALKIN BOUT? OH I JUST FUCKIN REMEMBFIGURED IT OUT111!! IT SOUNDED AXACTLY LIKE TROY1 DURING THE BATTLE SCENES WERE EXACTLY LIKE THE TROY BATTLE SCENES ALMOST NOTE FOR NOTE. THAT WASNT IN THE TRAILER SO THE MOVIE IS ACTUALLLY WORSE THAN I EXPECTED I GIVE IT A SOLID C+ FUCK AVATARD WHENS IRON MAN 2 OUT PEACE OUT JAMES CAMERON CAN SUCK IT KING OF THE WORLD MY ASS
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Pretty lame post brotha'...
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were you just trying to be the talkback equivalent of your hero Alex Jones, by using ALL CAPS LIKE ITS A FUCKING MEGAPHONE111!!!!
Still...there ain't nobody listening to you. But you can keep screaming if it makes you feel better. -
pics.
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...I loved it. Seeing this in IMAX 3-D was like making the jump from black and white to color. As much as I still love the simple fun of Jumanji, looking back at it in the AVATAR era shows that we've come a long way. Avatar is the best Christmas miracle I could have hoped for.
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what I'm stalkin about?
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How much were those tickets you paid for a movie you hated? Losers...
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...this bat-shit crazy conspiracy theory with you guys. It's good for a laugh or two...
http://tinyurl.com/kseo5q -
I assume that James Cameron, having planned a trilogy, has some kind of related story that justifies the continued use of the title Avatar, as in Avatar 2 and 3.
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I loved AVATAR, mostly for the technological leaps...and the overall design. (Wow, those 4-winged Banshees are BEAUTIFULLY realized and so life-like.) And although AVATAR isn't flawless, it does share the top spot as my favorite movie of the year, along with DISTRICT 9 (just ahead of INGLOURIOUS BASTERDS and STAR TREK). But in my opinion, both James Cameron and James Horner could have made better choices with the music-score. For Cameron's ALIENS, I remember the excitement that was generated with the aid of Horner's score...and how his music added power to key scenes. And although I can understand why AVATAR would have music that seems influenced by TITANIC, I feel that AVATAR could have used more punch in the music department. And the vocals at the end was a poor choice. Should have went instrumental. I gotta get off here. I'm exhausted.
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Thanks, and if you want to watch some excellent HBO series about soldiers and war, check out "Band of Brothers" and "Generation Kill". Both are based on excellent books and they delve deep into the psyche of the modern soldier. Highly recommended!
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Dec 22, 2009 2:29:06 AM CST
Visually stunning, but will not be a favorite Cameron film for m
by jawsfan
I don't think I would watch this movie more than a couple of times. Saw it today -- visually groundbreaking, that's for damn sure. But at the end of the day, it's about the story -- and the story seems a bit of a retread of movies we've seen before. Kind of predictable, actually. Same cake we've eaten before, except with spiffy new frosting. Definitely worth seeing once, and it's the first movie I've like Michelle Rodgriguez in, but I think it will have a hard time recouping its production costs.
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Dec 22, 2009 2:34:57 AM CST
Yeah it Needed A More Subtle Villain For A Best Picture Nom
by autodidact
... because how would Titanic ever have gotten the nomination without the subtle, nuanced performance of Billy Zane?
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Dec 22, 2009 2:36:08 AM CST
I haven't read anything worth reading in these forums in years.
by azlam orlandu
Yet I still browse them to my dismay.
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It was floating in Ribisi's office, and the floating mountains were above the unobtanium deposit. So it must emit anti-gravitons or something. Would be pretty easy to build a space elevator out of that shit.
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I saw the Dolby 3D version, and I'll probably try to see the IMAX 3D version before it leaves theatres. I don't think the 3D is really necessary, so I'll probably also pick up the Blu-ray if I can get it for around $20.
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ACT 1
Jake and Cat-pussy are running shit, and successfully expanding their settlement in the floating mountains.
ACT 2
The humans come back bigger and badder. They kick some N'avi ass.
ACT 3
It is revealed that the N'avi have a "twin brother scientist" species who build unobtanium-powered spaceships. There's a huge battle, the humans are driven off again, and the final shot is a N'avi fleet departing for earth.
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ACT 1
We see parallel stories: Ribisi on the dying Earth, now trying to build understanding and respect for the N'avi, having changed his ways in Avatar 2. We also see life on the N'avi craft, which is techno-organic, basically a massive flying cave system suffused with a dense ecosystem. We become more familiar with the second N'avi species, and there is tension as to what will be done with Earth.
ACT 2
The spaceship arrives and launches massive seedlings down through the atmosphere. They plunge into the ground in various places and hometrees begin to take root, growing at a visible rate until they loom over the cities. The desolate, gray landscapes are rapdidly spreading green thrush.
Act 3
Through some type of screenwritey magic, an accord is reached where the N'avi leave the humans their unobtanium ship, which is comprised with enough material to solve humanity's needs for an eon. The humans send the N'avi home on a proper human spaceship.
THE END
You're welcome, James Cameron. -
It seems that the industry really needs this film to be a success to justify the embracing of 3D which is the biggest anti-piracy combatant they have. I smell a conspiracy here. I still can't help but think what a movie Avatar would have been with a fresh original story. Imagine that for a minute. A great story to accompany those stunning visuals. Now there's a movie I would have gone and seen 5-6 times instead of just the once.
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...because I just can't help myself. http://tinyurl.com/yz6jc5d
This kinda ridiculous fuckin stuff just makes everything soo much more entertaining! I've always loved to watch the big films like this while they're birthing themselves into the mass-mind. Christ, look at STAR WARS or LOTR. There's the films themselves, which admittedly are "only movies", but just look at the effect they've had on our cultures and on the world itself. The interface between our culture and one of it's artifacts is just endlessly fascinating for me. That my friends, is WHERE IT'S AT.
Here be Spazboretronik's overlord preaching it! http://tinyurl.com/yf8tu9e -
Those are some interesting ideas. I especially like the one concerning Ribisi's character changing his ways. Good stuff.
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THE ONLY TIME I WASNT FANTASIZING ABOUT FUCKING THE TWO HOT CHICKS NEXT TO ME WAS THE LAST 15 MINUTES THE REST SUCKED HOT CHICKS 1 JAMES CAMEROB 0 DAMN AVATARD WAS BORINGI KNOW MY REVIEW SUCKED I FEEL DUMBER AFTER WATCHING AVATARD PLEASE SOMEONE ERASE IT FROM MY MEMORY IM BEGGING YOU TO REMOVE THE WORTHINGTAINT
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OH I FIXED IT COMPATIBILITY VIEW NOW I CAN TYPE IN THESE LONG TALKBACKS WITHOUT BEING IN A SLOW QUAGMIRE MUCH LIKE THE AVATAR EXPERIENCE. I WISH THERE WAS A COMPATIBILITY VIEW BUTTON AT THE THEATER WHAT THE FUCK VERSION OF IE IS THIS
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...but it's obviously not. Who knew?
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IT MAKES BRINGINGSEXYBACK JEALOUS IN OTHER NEWS AVATAR SUCKED IT SUCKED REALLY HARD YOU KNOW WHAT THE HIPSTER GUYS SAID WHILE LEAVING THEY SAID THAT WAS BORING AND THAT WAS PRETTY DUMB AND WE ALL LAUGHED .
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FAILS
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I was just trying to pimp some Alex Jones for you. Why you gotta be like that?
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Maybe they'll call the second one Pandora, or maybe it'll be about a space disease the mining crew caught on the planet that manifests in cryo on way home, They'd probably call it Pandorum...
Oh wait... -
It makes it easier to skip retarded posts at a glance. Keep posting like that, capstard. You're doing us all a favor.
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WE ARE ALL THANKFUL TO READ YOUR INSIGHTFUL AND WITTY GENIUS POSTS I FEEL SMARTER ALREADY
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and go kill yourself.your contribution in saving oxygen,saving energy and reducing CO2 pollutants with your death, will be the only useful thing you have ever done in your life.
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with some word like talkbacker and you'll most likely have Jim's response to all the CHUDs in this thread.
http://tinyurl.com/yhdxb9n -
Making even the most severely retarded sound comparatively brilliant 24/7. Keep it up champ.
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... first... the good points. Crazy. Awesome. A visual feast for the eyes. Immersive! I barely even knew there was a 400 pound guy that smelled like he hadnt showered in a month sitting next to me. It drew me in that much. Also the world obviously had a great deal of detail and thought put into it and with the exception of seeing my first Star Wars film in Digital Projection which I found to be a really fun movie theater experience, Avatar in 3D in IMAX relaxing in a cushy comfortable Tempur-Pedic countoured chair with "buttkickers" that acted like game console vibration controls at times with the big bass in the movie without veing overbearing... was really really fun. And I want to go back and see it again.
The bad: We get these broad strokes of the world and the scenes as well and the connective tissue between them leaves much to be desired. Most importantly, I really really really wanted more out of Jake's transformation into Na'vi and we really dont ever feel it or get it. And that, as the most important aspects of a classic Hero Journey and Destination, is impossible to forgive. We get big snapshots of his progress but at least for me I never felt it.
For instance, hero tries to ride a horse, fails. tries again, fails, succeeds. yay! we see a scene where he is learning the language and over three months apparently learns jack squat because we only see him speaking it twice at key moments for more impact.
At the start of the film he's shown to leap right into an avatar and do things that takes others months. That was a great and joyous scene with him having functioning legs again and all ... but to Neytiri he's nothing but a child and a first class klutz. And that never changes even by the end of the movie. They made a point to show Neytiri leaping off a high tree and onto broad leaves, graceful and elegant. Jake crashes through like an elephant. In the last battle sequence, Jake falls onto those very same leaves... and despite being a hero of the People now and gathering 15 clans to his side, he crashes like an elephant.
He just fails at every single turn to have the grace and elegance of the Na'vi and thats disappointing. I really really wanted the payoff, the scene where you go, "OHHHHH YYEAAAAAAAA he's not a big bad ass Na'vi Warrior!!" and it just never really happens.
The same can be said for the soldiers and Quaritch. Not only are they completely one dimensional, and yes I get that Quaritch is the Big Bad Ass Hunter Solider Guy but there was nothing built into it. Again we dont get the detail. At the start we are told you go to Hell for a vacation from Pandora and that everything here wants to kill you. Uhm... okay... can we SEE that please? We never ... ever... do.
Do we ever actually see the Na'vi and humans fighting? Nope... not really... a couple short moments.
The Na'vi are also made out to be superior, a part of their world, they survive and thrive on their knowledge and stealth and skills as when we meet Neytiri. And then at the end they are racing toward Mechs and very well armed soliders like battle lines from the Civil War? What?! No.
I give tremendous and unending kudos to all the people who spend years of their lives putting this visual feast together. It's astounding and a benchmark for all future visual feasts to be sure. People said it would be like having your eyesockets fragged for three hours and it really was. How often does a movie deliver among the geek community on that kind of hype? This one did. That's a truly impressive feat.
Oh yes... and they also took the very meaningful "I see you..." line to the point of silly where it felt like, "You complete me." which is also a damned shame because the first time it was spoken it was relevant and had purpose and made me smile that they were digging deeper into the meaning and culture of the Na'vi.
And I swear... if you listen closely to parts of the theme music and Leona Lewis song you can hear elements of "My Heart Will Go On" YEEEECCCCHHHH... lastly...
... the most jarring moment of the movie that actually broke my intense immersion with this glorious visual film... "I will fly with you." sounded like it was said by Val Kilmer from Top Gun and if nothing else that should have been edited out for the sheer power of its immersion breaking dialogue. Ouch. It almost physically hurt. -
No Christian would justify the merciless killing and destruction of Pandora for a bunch of stupid unobtanium. The point is the movie paints the military and corporate interests as being utterly evil and it's an obvious slap at current military and corporate people as though all of them are that way. What grates on me is the blatant hypocrisy of liberals like you and Cameron who take advantage of capitalism (websites and movies) while labeling anyone else who is capitalist as planet destroying evil doers. If you really thought the noble savages were so great and noble and enlightened, then you'd go dance with the wolves or put on your giant blue smurf suit and go live like them. Instead you sit in the air conditioned comfort of your energy consuming homes and drive your comfortable energy consuming cars to your energy consuming work where you can sit on your ass and pontificate in all your glorious liberalism.
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Hahahahahaha!!!
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...I preface this by saying I haven't seen it yet.
From the way this is being presented I would say no the Earth is not on the brink of extinction. There is no sense of desperation or 'noble- quest' angle to the corporation plundering Pandora. Just greed. Sure, they may need this resource but this isn't a '2 minutes to midnight' situation.
Yes, that would change the whole dynamic of the movie because face it...when faced with extinction all bets are off. Like a cornered animal people will do anything unfortunately. The moral choice? Perhaps not, but such is the survival instinct. Cameron doesn't take this angle though. This is about greed coupled with lack of humanity and compassion. -
"I know this will feel a little facetious, but...exactly what accent SHOULD a 22nd century former marine of no stated nationality have? You think he should have an early 21st century American accent?"
If literally every single person around him is speaking in a "21st century American accent", it's not much of a stretch to assume he's American as well. If it really didn't matter, as you're seeming to imply, they wouldn't have tried to mask his accent in the first place. Either way, it's not really a matter of story, it's a matter of Worthington not being able to hold an American accent. His slips in Terminator Salvation were just as bad. I highly doubt both McG and Cameron told him, "Hey, your character has no stated nationality, so be sure to throw in a few words with your natural accent, words you said with an American inflection moments earlier." Also, according to the Wiki (which, to be fair, may not be the most accurate source of info), Jake is American. -
I'm not gonna lie, the movie wasn't perfect. On its own, the story is largely predictable, the dialog is paint by the numbers, and the characters cliche.
But, that said... Everything that was right about the movie more than made up for it, in my mind. I enjoyed the story, the world Cameron created, and the way the 3D technology was leveraged to really immerse us in the world of Pandora.
I know Avatar has its flaws. I fully recognize that. And I wish Cameron could have put a little more thought into the script. BUT...
When the end credits rolled, even after 3 hours, I was disappointed Avatar was over. I wanted to stay for more. So obviously, something in Avatar's mixture really did it for me. :)
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You recognize it's not the greatest movie of the last 30 years, which is refreshing. I don't think AVATAR is bad by any stretch either, but the movie, flaws and all, is a step forward for the genre. And if it warrants sequels, then hopefully studios will see the further viability of sci-fi cinema.
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first off marines are US military. second sam worthington at times was going back and forth between an american accent and an aussie accent. The accent problem is just lazy directing on cameron's part. if he can't do an american accent just stick with the aussie all together, if he can which he did in parts, do a retake when the aussie comes through.
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jake sully never fully comes to realize that what the corporation and military are doing wrong until he taps the na'vi girls ass. Then he is all of sudden na'vi. In the movie there was technology that could of fixed his spinal cord injury and jake sully could walk again, but the military was to cheap to provide him the surgery. Wouldn't that fact make jake sully cynical of the military and corporation. So he should have been sympathtic to the na'vi when first arriving on pandora. Instead he is loyal to the military until he gets a piece of ass from the na'vi girl. But no, james cameron had to have a titanic love story in there.
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Sigourney Weavers character was so cliched stereotype of a liberal scientist, that you could care less for the character. I'm liberal but that character was annoying. In real life a liberal scientist wouldn't right off the bat on first meeting jake sully start talking shit to him. And a more realistic character wouldn't have let on that she hated military so bad on first meeting. and although she hates jake sully to start off with, she very easily comes to like him in no time. So what was the point of her talking shit to him if she was going to easily like him. Stephen Langs character is even a more cliched stereotype of a rightwing military leader. Right off the bat Lang's character is presented as a simplistic pure evil asshole, and nothing more complex is shown about him. Neither of these characters had any complexities at all. They were simplistic stereotypes which cause the viewer to dismiss them from their first appearance on screen
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"You totally nailed him, bro. Good call." That was a direct quote. From you. What's next? "Now how 'bout you nail me, bro?" Everyone knows ZHM=Kurt Lockwood, bisexual porn star and amateur flamer.
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the military look evil. When jake sully first arrives on pandora and he is getting off the spaceship, two marines start laughing at sully for being disabled. Come on marines will not laugh at another marine for getting injured in battle. Cameron made the military look simplistically evil, instead of showing any complex characteristics of the military or the corp. I remember a movie james cameron directed called aliens where an evil corporation was shown with complexity not through cliched simplicity
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From the casual observers point of view it really does look like if you actually say anything negative about the film you've been cleaning the balls off it would seem you'r head will explode or something. The ONE point virtually everyone agrees on (that the story is a big copy and paste from the liberal parties manifesto dunked in cheese) you have to say is the best. Why? The only thing people can't seem to agree on with this is which film it rips off the most.
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... king of the universe?
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It's never stated that ALL the mercs are former marines. In fact, considering the number of troops on Pandora it's very unlikely that they were all former marines. They could be ex-Army or any other service, not to mention from the private security sector.
That was a really, really weak observation, dude. -
After reading only 15 minutes of the political/sociological ranting about this film, I have decided that NO FLICK is worth all this hoopla and bullshit.
Might be nice to go to the cinema and see a film with real actors and real sets and real landscapes instead of all this CGI manure.
Will wait for Avatar on video a year or so down the line...after all, that's where this flick rightfully belongs. -
Congratulations, your assessment of STAR WARS is spot on, well done!
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The story? This story has been told a MILLION times. This is Dances With Wolves. That is what it is. Now... with that said... i will say visually, and acoustically... it's mind blowing. Seeing it on IMAX in 3D is worth the 15 bucks. But just like a thrill ride, it's a boost to the senses and just like that... It's over. With nothing to really think about or contemplate. The story is why I HATED this movie... empty, overused plot device. I'm not going to get into the undertones, or sub plots of the movie... I'm just going to say this to James Cameron. Humans are all bad... Of course we are. We are all hell bent on destroying every bit of life on our own planet. Of course we are. We will think nothing of destroying whole peoples to get our greedy McDonalds loving hands on money. Of course we will. It's sad, pathetic, absolute, hopeless thinking like this that continues to make our story telling BLAND. Humans are evil and greedy... we get it... Epecially Americans... we get it. BLAH BLAH BLAH. Like the story. It's a Boring Yawn fest rant.
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Much like your post.
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1) ALIENS 2)AVATAR 3)TERMINATOREverything else he's made is garbage. But I REALLY liked AVATAR alot. It was at times corny, obvious, and preachy, but the message was spot-on (if somewhat ironic: a multimillion dollar globally marketed blockbuster railing against imperialist capitalism), the action was exciting, and the visuals were simply gorgeous. It definitely lives up to the hype in terms of the technical achievement. I don't know if its really a "game changer", though; it really comes off more as the perfection of the CGI tech then a leap forward. The 3D was simply amazing, tho; it doesn't come off gimicky; it's a true enhancement. I look forward to the inevitable sequel(s) and hope they don't suck.
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they were presented as the military not as mercs, contracted out by the corporation, just like as in aliens. of course jake sully says they do it for the money, which leaves a vagueness to is it military or mercs, but they refered to each other by there military ranks, if it was mercs then military ranks would not be used. Even if it was mercs it would be mercs with prior military experience, so therefore they wouldn't laugh at disabled soldier.
that was a very weak, weak, weak, weak defense of bad storytelling, dude -
Don't be a cunt just because someone has a differing opinion to your own. I'm fucking fed up of Avatar. It's like three day old turkey and i'm eating it in sandwiches now and thinking of skinning the carcass for a curry. Fuck Avatar, fuck Pandora, fuck the Na'vi, fuck James painting with broad stokes' Cameron, fuck mech suits, but most of all fuck this talkback. It's like a cancer in my stomach.
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What better way to "protest" global imperialist capitalism than with a cross-marketing campaign "synergized" with one of the world's most powerful (and evil) multinational corporations.
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1.T2
2.Aliens
3.Terminator
4.The Abyss
5.True lies
6.avatar
7.titanic -
I expect it'll make more money in the second weekend. Word-of-mouth is very strong and they picked the absolute best release date possible. Families or at least kids off for Xmas vacation, the movies open for matinees every day like in the summer. I think there's a good chance it will end up between Dark Knight and Titanic in overall revenue.
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The Na'vi get fat, and eventiually succumb to Space Diabetes.
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And FUCK YOU and the horse you rode in on!
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Rather, I'm hoping that AVATAR 2:AVATAR::ALIENS:ALIEN.
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Don't be soft. If this movie makes a billion you can have the keys to my house and my boat. This movie has about as much chance of repeat business as Speedracer.
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the movie is also partnering up with a lot of evil corporations, that do pretty much the samething the corporation in the movie does. So james cameron preaches but doesn't practice. also the movie is released by fox which is owned by rupert murdoch whose fox news is trying to turn this country into a facist country run by corporations. couldn't of cameron found a more social responsible media entity other than fox to release this movie
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Jakesully and Netiri get drunk, fly their Space Pterodactils into walls n' shit.
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Raging hypocrisy aside, I thought it was really something else. In terms of a technical achievement, it definitely lived up to the hype. I thought the story was good too, if derivative.
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the only good word of mouth is the 3d special effects, but as for the story its totally different. as i was leaving the movie on sunday, people exiting theater either had blank faces or were laughing at the movie. now reactions i seen from great movies like the first matrix, all 3 lord of the rings, the dark knight and so on and so forth had people leaving overjoyed. Never have I seen people walking out of a great movie leave with blank faces, but I did with avatar
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Was only that one Tribe's home. Most people seem to be overlooking this, the humans weren't advocating Total War on the Na'vi, they were talking about displacing a few hundred.
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No joke. If anything, the word of mouth is positive.
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Please start removing barnacles from the boat, and clean out your eavestroughs for me. At my screening last night the audience applauded at the end. Can't remember the last movie where that happened. And my friend and I are planning to see it again, this time in IMAX3D. My sister took her kids and my mother and now my other sister is going to take her kids. Trust me, it's going to make mad fucking bank!
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titanic to be an epic failure. See titanic's female fanbase which spent millions on that movie allowed james cameron think you can have bad story and people will buy it. that worked for titanic because it was a romantic tale that appealed to unrealistic expectations of its female fan base. But avatar was sci fi, not a lame romance. If titanic would have failed(like it should have because it was incredibly bad movie), then cameron would have actually spent sometime with coming up with a good story like he did with T1, T2, aliens, and the abyss. I really wanted this movie to be great but even with the great special effects, i couldn't ignore the fact that the story was incredibly and laugh out loud terrible.
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really don't like it, they just want to like it because of all the mystery and hype this movie has recieved in sci fi circles the past 12 years and they were hoping it would deliver. So now their in a denial period, but as time goes by they will realize how bad this movie is. I did the samething with star wars episode 2 and 3. but after a period time and watching those movies again, i realized the few good moments and good special effects in those movies didn't change the fact the story was absolutely terrible. 10 years from now nobody will talk of this movie in good terms other than it caused special effects to take a step forward
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Dances With Wolves was not the first time this story has been told. It's an archetypal story, and I think Cameron made a deliberate move to stick to the archetype because he's trying to make it work on a mythical level.
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Do you honestly think people are pretending to like the movie? That I'm pretending to like the movie?? Dude, I spent MONTHS making fun of Cameron's blowhard bullshit about this movie and everything else he's done since ALIENS (still his best film). I honestly thought AVATAR was a good movie. The story didn't blow my mind (we've seen the basic theme before), and was admittedly corny and preachy at times, but I honestly thought it was pretty damn cool flick with insanely gorgeous visuals and ass-kicking action. Please, don't embarrass yourself by thinking everyone is an idiot because they liked a movie that you didn't like. There's room for all kinds of opinions.
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Nobody's calling this a 'classic' or anything. Yes in 10 years it may be 'meh'. But right now it's novel and notable.
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Cameron has, I think, made something unprecedented here. Avatar kicked ass as I predicted, but it has a very special and unique quality that definitely was not what I was expecting at all - and is quite different even to Cameron's previous work.I have never seen a movie as immersive - even now I want to go back to Pandora, like some acid flashback. JC was onto something when he said Avatar was like 'dreaming with your eyes open'. And I'm not just talking about visuals or effects here. The seamless combination of masterfully done 3D, emotive CG characters, photo-real environments, and stunningly beautiful visions, all conspired to create something truly visionary; you absolutely feel like you have visited that planet. No movie before has envisioned an alien world so brilliantly or in such detail and versimilitude (the SW prequel worlds seem like simply pretty paper-weight CG greenscreen backgrounds by equivalence). And these aspects are no mere bolt-ons; they are intimately connected to the feel, thematics, narrative, and intent of the movie, so much so that dismissing them as pretty visuals is simply ignorant nonsense. Regular movies, even good ones, just seem like a completely different breed in comparison. On those levels, Avatar is an out and out visionary masterpiece.Now, on a purely story, action, character level, Avatar is great, involving, exciting, timely and resonant - however, Cameron has made tighter and better movies on these levels, although a lot of that is to do with cutting this movie done considerably to fit the 170 minute limit of IMAX. The movie was originally at least 40 minutes longer. And these omissions prevent Avatar from being an unqualified masterpiece.For those complaining about not seeing earth - these scenes were shot and filmed, as in the original scriptment, and you can even see concept art in one of the recently published books. I feel that the existing cut, even though it certainly works, condenses things a bit too rapidly at the beginning. You can tell that Cameron re-jigged things a lot at the last moment, efficiently so, but the movie would have gained immensely from seeing the dystopic earth at the start, and Jake's life there. The visual contrast with Pandora would have spoke volumes.And my other complaint - not enough action! What we got was absolutely first rate and truly epic, but two major action scenes were cut - one that I know for sure was filmed (a grand hunt against 1000's of bison-like creatures called sturmbeests). I expect some of the final battle was cut down as well. Cameron chose to focus on more of the lyrical aspects of the movie instead (at least in the first half), and that was a good choice, because those aspects were genuinely emotional, spiritual, and full of - something he's not all that known for - genuine wonder. That's usually Spielberg's territory, not Cameron's, who's movies are usually by-words for intense, white knuckle action and visceral qualities. The Abyss had a little of this quality of wonder, but Avatar far surpasses not only it, but also any movie ever made in this department. No mean feat considering how jaded we all are in this age of diminishing returns. These aspects show how he's grown as a filmmaker. That's what I mean when I say there were surprising qualities in this movie. The Cameron who first conceived this story in '95 would have given us balls out action and grandeur if he'd made it back then, but i think it would have been more matter-of-fact, too. He has definitely matured a lot.However, the action was kick-ass and as brilliant as always, so if it had more of that as well then I would have no trouble declaring this my favorite Cameron movie ever. And of course, there were many more character scenes, and background to the scientific and political aspects of the movie's world, that were also cut. Supporting characters like Selfridge would have been filled out more, and parallels to historical operations and bodies like the Dutch East India company would have been made much clearer.Anyway, I expect there will be a vastly extended cut somewhere down the road, and such an extended version could unequivocally make this Cameron's best movie - as it, in fact, already is on many levels. Right now it sits just under Aliens and T2 for me, though I'll have to let it stew for a bit to really determine its ranking.
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Rickey saw for the first time in IMAX 3D last night and let Rickey tell you: this is *THE ONLY* way to see this movie. It was freaking gorgeous. When the camera moves through the dense underbrush of Pandora, it's pure magic. Had Rickey been watching a normal projection, it wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable. The story wasn't great or terribly original, but it did what it had to do--it was essentially a vehicle for the visuals.
For months, Rickey has stated that he expecting it to be a tech demo, and that's exactly what it was. A ridiculously impressive and beautiful tech demo. -
How can anyone continue to defend that unmitigated piece of shit? Especially after Avatar? I don't get it. But, eh, to each their own.
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You know, not once during the movie did I chuckle to myself about ocular copulation.
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Dec 22, 2009 1:25:10 PM CST
Lasepants, don't start this shit again.
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I still think you're a moron for hating T2, but I'm pleased that you enjoyed Avatar.
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Turd, the scene you describe with a grand hunt of bison-like creatures...
Poor old Jim's been getting it in the neck big time with the DANCES WITH WOLVES comparisons. Not fucking suprised he chose to drop that sequence.
Still, i'd be really keen to see an extended cut and would certainly waste no time in shelling out on the blu ray. Wonder if they might even 'harden' up the action a bit in the final battle? -
Laserpants, as far as Terminator's go i'd recommend going straight from THE TERMINATOR to TERMINATOR SALVATION. They make a good pair of serious sci-fi flicks without all the family-friendly hokiness of parts 2 and 3.
Whiny bitch Furlong or the ultimate 'professional' Bale... hmm tough fucking decision eh?? -
Must suck to be you! Anything for a little attention, huh!Don't worry, it'll only take 7,978 deaths in your family before you are REALLY a tigerking!
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Nobody has ever defended T2 coherently to me; it always devolves, almost immediately, into personal insults for some insane reason I still haven't quite figured out but I suspect is rooted in nostalgia for youth and marketing. Avatar, on the other hand, is a stunning achievement that is being praised as such because it's a stunning achievement. T2 WAS 100% hype and no substance. AVATAR is hype AND substance; it really brings it; the proof is in the pudding. I really liked it lots. Looking forward to the extended cut.
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The audience I saw it with loved it and applauded loudly at the end. Hell, my 66 year old Mom loved the movie and believe me when I say that this usually isn't her type of film! More importantly, cinemascore gave it an "A", meaning everyone who paid to see it, liked it. A lot. (and will probably go back for more) Transformers: Revenge of the Morons got a B+ and made how many gazillion dollars? The movie's a hit, haters, get over it already. I for one, am going to see it at least 2 more times in IMAX 3D, something I very rarely do...
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i saw cameron on charlie rose the other day and after awhile i starting to get a disturbing feeling...i picked up on the fact that he is a total bullshit artist and at the time i didnt want to believe it.. and then i saw avatar.. everything outside of the fx is total halfass...from the jurassic park sound effects to the stock "tribal" actors. i wonder how many buddies saw the movie together and then felt like total tools when they realized its just a cliche romance?
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T2 is not a bad film by any stretch. In fact it's very entertaining but... it's certainly softer than the original and plays to the mainstream ("I need a vacation" and the cringeworthy 'thumbs up' moment).
Also like MAD MAX BEYOND THUNDERDOME it suffers from a mild case of 'child-itis'.
Definitely not Cameron's best film imho. -
And he made Aliens and Terminator 2 for his twelve year-old self. I personally love every single one of the man's movies.
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Horrible unlikable brat teaches Arnie how to wuv, while 'roided mom goes bat-shit?? Ick.T-1000 was cool, back in the day.
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Cameron = Benjamin Button?!
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You're out of your mind, buddy. Oh sorry, Rickey resorted to the personal insult pretty quickly there. Rickey's bad.
Let's start over. Here's why T2 is awesome: Brad Fiedel's ominous music, the incredible tension caused by the two Terminators fighting over Connor's fate, Furlong's scrappy performance, Linda Hamilton's general awesomness, and the effects which still hold up to this day. Sorry bub, but T2 holds a special place in most movie geeks' hearts. Always has an always will. Sorry that you feel the need to be contrarian.
Oh, and LaserPants: you're batshit crazy. -
Dec 22, 2009 1:55:16 PM CST
Laserpants, here is a comparison between
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
a rational, coherent difference of opinion and a moron's opinion:Intelligent person who dislikes T2: "T2 is not a very good movie. It is undeniably well crafted and the action sequences are first rate, but the story lays on some heavy handed messages and lacks the grit of the original. It also isn't as tight or efficient, and replaces the nastiness of the original with politically correct nonsense about 'how it is bad to kill'."Now that's just me playing devil's advocate, and I certainly don't agree with those opinions and could defend against them. Now, contrast to the following.Moronic hater of T2: "T2 is the worst action movie ever made; worse than Seagal's DTV shit. The editing is crap. The action is terrible, it looks like the first Michael Bay movie.(?) Cameron = Michael Bay!Hahaaha, they turned Termi into a pussy! Aww, he's a father figure for ickle John Connor. Termi dying is like Lassie/Old Yeller!. All people who like this movie are fags! Cameron is the King of diminishing returns!Termi 2, why do yoo cwy? Awww, WE NUB YOO, WOBODADDY!!!"All too often, Laserpants, you fell into the latter category. And yes, people gave many coherent arguments in the movie's favor; you just chose not to listen, and instead insulted them.
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NO PRODUCT PLACEMENT.
Rickey will say it again: NO PRODUCT PLACEMENT. This may be the first mass movie I've seen in almost 10 years that hasn't had blatant product placement. Haters can slam the movie all they want for the lackluster plot, but you gotta admit that "Avatar" is infinitely better than those idiotic Michael Bay Mountain Dew ads style movies that we've sadly grown accustomed to. -
Don't dig up the hatchet, man!
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Tigerking, you've been watching too many movies. It's quite common for mercenary forces to retain rank while on a job in order to maintain order. No merc force worth its salt would go into action calling each other "Bill" or "Stan" or "Mr. Jones."
As for making fun of Jake's condition, it could just as well have been a case of them laughing about how unbelievably impractical it is to be confined to a wheelchair on a planet as hostile as Pandora, as in "Holy shit, that dude's fucked."
Again, your gripe is at the very least flimsy and reeks of desperation and poor imagination. Being deliberately obtuse to score cheap points is not very cool, chief. -
Edward Furlong>>>.Christian Bale. Yes. Furlong is still the best screen Connor to date (along with that dude we saw in the future war prologue). Bale's performance was one-note - although the appalling script certainly didn't give him anything to work with.
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Turd, as a big Cameron fan who's just seen a new one to add to the canon i'd be interested to see how you currently rank Big Jim's movieography from best to worst? (pls leave out PIRANHA 2 if you want to!)
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Bale's Connor retreats towards the shore of the lake firing short controlled bursts of his automatic rifle at the Hydrobots coming in from all angles. His life revolves around remaining cool and professional.
Furlong's Connor disrespectfully smart talks his step-father before getting on his scooter with a chubby giner haired sidekick. His life revolves around being a whiny bitch.
You think Furlong's the best Connor? In the words of Arnie - "WRONG". -
1. Aliens2. T23. Avatar4. The Terminator.5. The Abyss (director's cut)6. Titanic7. True Lies8. The Abyss (theatrical version)9. Piranha 2 - though this is more Alan Smithee than Cameron!
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The guy plays the same role in every damned movie: sullen sociopath. And while that may work in a movie like TDK and it appeal to some of you, it would be nice to see some of the hero worship for Bale get cut back a bit here on the AICN talkbacks.
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"IF WE STAY THE COURSE WE ARE DEAD!!! WE ARE ALL DEAD!!!Loss of cool = UNPROFESSIONAL.In the words of Arnie - "Chill out, dickwad."
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Cheers Turd. Interesting list and you clearly rate AVATAR as one of Cameron's very best. I think you're insane for rating T2 higher than the original classic and i'd personally have THE ABYSS (DC) and ALIENS in the top two slots. Still it does go to show that the man's made some great movies.
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Great, now it looks like I got to told 'chill out dickwad' and in response I said 'Cheers Turd'.
FUCK! You win this round Turd. But i'll flush you yet! Im outta here! -
Bale is professional! You're gay for Bale too! Admit it! Rickey Henderson is gay for Christian Bale.
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Rickey is straight for Zoe Saldana and her blue feline hotness!
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Haterofcrap makes him look lie Roger Ebert.
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1. The Terminator
2. Aliens
3. The Abyss (Director's cut)
4. T2
5. AVATAR
6. True Lies
7. Titanic
(still haven't seen Piranha 2: Electric Boogaloo) -
Dec 22, 2009 2:29:21 PM CST
Cobra--Kai, I was referring to Bale, not you
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Mr. Angry definitely needs to 'chill out'.
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Fuck me.
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your still making a lame attempt at defending bad story telling. When jake sully gets off the ship, the two soldiers make fun of him for being handicap like high school kids pick on the geeky or nerdy kid. Thats exactly how the scene happened. Like I said before its implied that its the military not a merc group. there is nowhere in the movie where its stated that it is a private security firm. And merc groups don't use their old military ranks to refer to each other because their in a different organization at that point. Again, your defense of the indefensible is at the very least flimsy and reeks of desperation and poor imagination. Being deliberately obtuse to score cheap points is not very cool, chief.
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T2 is Tom Brady 3 time superbowl champ. Avatar is fantasy football leaguer jerking off to pictures of miley cyrus
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Rickey's pretty certain that they SPECIFICALLY stated in the movie that they are private mercs. Moreover, Rickey's not sure why this is a big deal. It's a long-running theme in Cameron's futuristic movies that the military and "The Company" are essentially one and the same. Why are we making a huge issue of this anyway? You're cool with the glowing earth spirits, the unobtanium, even the floating mountains, but you take issue with what you perceive as an unclear explanation of military ranks in the movie? Really? That's where you're drawing the line? Egad, man.
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change the fact that the lovers of avatar can't come up with the reasonable defense's of the large number of major flaws of avatar. Putting me down isn't a logical defense of the major flaws of avatar. and let me state that i love james cameron movies(excluding avatar and titanic). I love T1, T2, aliens, and the abyss. I have seen those thousands of time and will see them a thousand times more. But those movies had engaging storytelling, which avatar lacks. I can give a pass to cameron for titanic, it was targeted toward a different audience, but avatar was supposed to be serious sci fi, not titanic and a generic dance with wolves on another planet
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my point was cameron was trying to hard to make the military/corporation as evil as possible with absolutely no complexities like he did with military/corp in aliens. My point was it was compeletly lame to have military guys laughing at another military guy for being disabaled. That doesn't happen in real life, so it isn't the least bit realistic. That kind of stuff happens in high school when the popular kids pick on the geeky or nerdy kids. Military personel don't mock other military personel for being injured in battle, just doesn't happen. thats my whole point not whether they are military or mercs.
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...I didn't know what to think of this movie, after all the in-depth reviews and months of advance hype, but your brilliant football analogy just made it all absolutely clear! T2 is Brady and Avatar is some guy, so Terminator must be Peyton Manning, Aliens is Ricky Williams, True Lies would be Sebastian Janikowski, and Pirahna 2 is obviously Mike Gundy. And Titanic is Dick Vermeil. -
The military/company in Aliens is exactly identical to the one in Avatar. Both value profits and don't care about the human consequences of obtaining them. There's no difference whatsoever. Also, I don't think the military guys mocking Sully for his injury is as outlandish as you suggest. They have no idea he's a candidate for the Avatar program. All they know is that he's paralyzed and landing on an incredibly dangerous planet. He's fresh meat. Given that, any military member in the world would make a comment about him. In the military, it's all about the weakest member of your unit impeding the larger group. There's no equal opportunity in the military buddy, certainly not in Cameron's cynical futuristic vision of it anyway.
But again, all this is moot, because the movie clearly stated that it was a private army. Trust Rickey, he's right about this. You don't miss much in an IMAX 3D screening... -
why ANIMALS EAT THEIR YOUNG!
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Avatar is probably Cameron's weakest major film. It looks gorgeous, the visuals are incredible, but I honestly believe that this movie will be forgotten in a few years. Someone will take this tech and make a real, deep, heartfelt movie. The problem with Avatar is the storytelling. Yes, the story can be cliched and the movie can still be great. That's not the complaint. The complaint is Cameron doesn't give you anyone to really care about. The Na'Vi are literaly too good to be true. They are like some perfect, Utopian society. And there is no way that anything bad is going to happen to them. There is never a doubt that they will win. Cameron doesn't even bother piling on any tension. Both the Marines/PMC guys and the vast majority of Na'Vi are cannon fodder so that the Colonel can have his rumble with Sully. Cameron throws no wild cards into the mix. He's too obsessed with his pretty pictures and Utopian Earth mother vision. When the Gaia planet sends all the animals after the humans, I first thought it was Na'Vi reinforcements arriving, or some kind of counter attack. But no, it's the ultimate Dues ex Machina. Sully's plan was to fight guns with spears. He only wins because the planet sends a random wave of dragons and rhinos at the Marines. Sully isn't even necessary to save the Na'Vi. The planet seems to have had it covered. I can think of no memorable lines from this film, no comic relief, no real iconic shot, though the Mech jumping out of the ship to fight Sully shot comes close. None of the wit and excitement that Cameron is known for is here. It's a three hour demo real that I hope someone takes and makes a real movie with. Not this soulless travelogue.
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tigerking7979 has to be Ryan Leaf.
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I am making fun of HaterOfCrap. Your points are eloquent and well-thought out compared to his drooling ravings.
Well...maybe I am in a backhanded sort of way. -
Pandora is basically a giant brain\organic computer. Most creates can interface and commune with the planetary organism. That's fucking awesome and not unrealistic if you ask me.
If you really wanted to go bug-nuts for Avatar 3 you could show Earth evolved into a planet-sized silicon computer. But this would not be congruent with the current level of human tech in Avatar. However if it was set a couple hundred years down the line, who's to say that the Earth won't have been 100% converted into artificial constructs by that point. -
sheesh
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Now THAT's a valid critique. Sound reasoning backed up with examples. I'm going to see it today or tomorrow and I hope I enjoy it more than you did.
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DoctorWho? You haven't seen AVATAR yet?? You've been hanging round this tb for days!
Just promise yourself one thing. When the movie starts, forget everything you've read and heard. Shut it out and ...let yourself go...
I'm kinda jealous of you. -
If you people listen to the narrative at the beginning Jake mentions the grunts fought for freedom back on earth but here they are just a private security force fighting for a paycheck.
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I believe the comment by the grunts when Jake rolled down the ramp was directed toward the company, that they would stoop to hiring a handicap soldier.
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Couldn't make it this weekend. My hopes are tempered. I will actually go into the movie wanting to like it. Big Cameron fan. Hanging around here to catch the usual suspects reaction to it all.
As far as shutting out the critiques and letting myself go...nothing a little chronic won't cure ;) -
16.5 mil. in just 3400+ theatres, and its December with school in. DK did 24 mil in 4200 theatres in summer. Looks like Avatar might pass 400 domestic, especially with tracking polls at 94-97% positive and Yahoo users are at 12,200 reviews with a "A" average, thats up there with DK, LOTR, and Spidey.
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Remember the scene at the end where the military guy is giving orders to the "marines" that aren't even wearing uniforms? They were hired by the company.
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Dec 22, 2009 4:03:51 PM CST
The 'marines' were privately hired mercenaries
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
There's nothing to debate there - it's spelled out for you at film's beginning.As far as the grosses are concerned, that's exactly what I said would happen. A good, though not record-breaking, first week-end, followed by excellent word of mouth and thus excellent and accumulative 'legs'. Avatar isn't a front-loaded known property like Twilight or Turdformers.
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Dec 22, 2009 4:15:28 PM CST
Did anyone get a distinct "Fern Gully" impression of the film?
by pieman0226
I'm just surprised no one has mentioned it, and that was the first thing I was thinking as I left.
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No,it was more like Dances with Smurfs to me.*
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after another one 2.5h journey in Pandora.crap. :(
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after another one 2.5h journey in Pandora.crap. :(
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I’ve seen it 4 times now and I know I’m not close to being done. When I was 15 I saw Star Wars 7 times that summer, but this is different. I’ve been trying to figure out what it is about this movie that I can’t get it out of my head. When I say I’m addicted I know what I’m talking about. I’ve been around a 12 step program for awhile and the emotions that this movie is generating are causing some major chemical reactions in my brain. The theory that I’ve come up with is, that if someone was doing a brain scan while I’m watching this movie, the area that fires up when one falls in love is going into overdrive. I know intellectually that Natiri is a bunch of 1’s and 0’s, but I’m right with Jake as he falls for her. I know this sounds fucked up but this is all I can come up with. As for the repeat business, every time I’ve gone I’ve asked the people around me if this was there first time and I’ve always had a few raise their hands and say it’s their second time. This is going to do huge repeat business. Read last night on one of the entertainment/news sites that their projecting Avatar to do over 1 billion worldwide.