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Mr. Beaks Goes To War With James Cameron's AVATAR!

It's been an excruciatingly long wait, but, in holding off ten-plus years to allow the technology to catch up to his fertile imagination, James Cameron has delivered in AVATAR an exemplary piece of world-building that will likely be cinema's CG and 3-D gold standard for years to come. It is frequently awe-inspiring, a triumph on several levels - unfortunately, none of these levels are marked "storytelling", "dialogue", "character development" or "subtle integration of theme". Cameron has struggled in some of these areas before, but he's typically compensated for his shortcomings by blowing the audience away with his keen sense of pacing and a string of expertly shot-and-edited action sequences (this is why many people didn't complain about the ear-splittingly awful Terminator-John Connor banter in T2 until their third or fourth viewing - and, for the most part, still didn't give a shit). While he can still bring the militaristic, planet-decimating fury with more muscle and swagger than any director working today, he's misguidedly opted for the slow-burn approach with AVATAR's narrative, therefore relying on a broadly-drawn collection of cliche magnets to hook the audience into his on-the-nose tale of interplanetary conquest. The film comes to life periodically, thanks to Zoe Saldana's sinuous and soulful portrayal of Neytiri (and a number of vertiginous flights through the verdant expanses of Pandora), but the story is so painfully predictable - and, sad to say, corny - that one spends most of their time ticking off the seconds until the big final battle - which is impressive, but not nearly as rousing as it ought to be. The film really labors in the early going as Cameron attempts to get us to identify with Jake Sully (Sam Worthington), a wheelchair-bound jarhead who's been recruited to take his deceased brother's place in the experimental Avatar Program. Jake is delighted by the idea of taking up residence in a genetically-bred Na'vi avatar with working legs, and, once he's jacked in, has no interest in waiting around for a mandatory physical adjustment period. Jake wants to take his ten-foot alter-entity out for a spin. The unbridled joy with which he sprints away from his laboratory handlers is an exhilarating declaration of personal freedom (and classic Cameron); though Jake has largely come across as a complete bore up until this point (both the writing and Worthington's charm deficiency are to blame for this), in this moment, he seems ready to assert himself and take over the movie. Doesn't happen. What does happen - and what has been widely glimpsed via Comic Con, "AVATAR Day" and officially released clips - is a fact-finding excursion through the Pandoran jungle that leads to a hackneyed confrontation with a couple of huge, rampaging beasts - "hackneyed" because it turns into that scene everyone loved from THE BEAR twenty fucking years ago, then leads to a long chase punctuated by a life-threatening leap off a cliff, and, a few seconds later, a stay of execution for Jake because one of those floaty jellyfish things lands on the tip of Neytiri's poised arrow. Oh, native cultures! You'd still be around today if not for your ignorant obeisance to ancient customs and omens. (Actually, everything really does shift and alight for a reason on Pandora; the entire planet - from the Na'vi to the beasties to the grand, old trees - is neurally connected.) Faster than you can say "Tatanka", Jake is hard at work earning the trust of the Na'vi in order to advance the agenda of (evil mining company) SecFor's Colonel Quaritch (Stephen Lang) and Parker Selfridge (Giovanni Ribisi) - who, in one of the film's more nuanced moments, is introduced putting a golf ball into a coffee mug in the middle of a bustling situation room (how fiendishly cavalier!). Now, why would a seemingly decent guy like Jake want to play a pivotal role in the displacement of an alien civilization? Well, the kill-happy Quaritch has promised to requisition him a pair of working legs provided the operation is a success. Since Jake has no chance of paying for this procedure himself (a genuinely poignant nod to the enduringly shitty treatment of veterans in this country), he's willing to play both sides if it'll get him walking on his own again. For a punishingly long stretch of the film, Cameron cuts back and forth between Jake's gradual induction into Neytiri's tribe and the slow-mounting intrigue at the base; meanwhile, anyone who's watched a fair share of movies is screaming to themselves, "Just get on with the big betrayal already!" Yes, sooner or later, Quaritch is going to welch on his deal, Jake is going to be ostracized, and Weaver's scrappy research team is going to be forced into performing some kind of covert operation in order to save the Na'vi from certain extinction. To Cameron's credit, he does manage to build some momentum as the expected occurs - but, for the first time in his career, it feels like he's going through the motions rather than telling a story in which he's emotionally invested. At least TITANIC had the wrap-around gimmick (and adherence to the historical record as an excuse for predictability); AVATAR is straightforward, spoon-fed and only surprising when someone slips and falls off a tree branch (or the back of a winged creature) hundreds of feet in the air. There may not be much suspense in AVATAR, but there sure is a shitload of vertigo! AVATAR was doomed to fall short of expectations the minute it was sold as a "game changer" for the medium. After all, what, short of ushering in a newfangled era of Feel-A-Round, could a 3-D movie offer audiences that they've never seen before? Though there are select sequences in AVATAR which suggest a more immersive experience is on the horizon (particularly the opening, painstakingly-layered shot of technicians hauling intergalactic travelers out of hyper-sleep in zero gravity), wouldn't all of these advances be more useful in video games, where such immersion would heighten the liberating sense of first-person control? And, if so, isn't this a bit disquieting for cinephiles? Of course, there will always be a need for great storytellers to take an audience somewhere they can't possibly get to on their own, but when the path is this well-trod, wouldn't it be nice to have the option to stray? If tentpole films continue to embrace formula this rigorously, perhaps "game ender" is more apt. As AVATAR launches into its grand finale - which, again, does work on a visceral, vengeful level - the gulf between visual invention and narrative originality keeps widening. There is honestly not a surprising beat in the entire battle; everything unfolds as it would in a bargain, made-for-SyFy movie. Thankfully, Cameron summons all of his crowd-pleasing powers and, at times, overpowers the decibel-shattering sameness by sheer dint of his considerable talent. And that's the one heartening takeaway from AVATAR: Cameron can still pin an audience to their seat and give them a spectacular night out at the movies; even on his worst day (and I do feel AVATAR is his weakest effort to date by a significant margin), he can plop them down in a fantastic world populated with fantastic creatures, and make them never want to leave. That said, he only engenders audience sympathy when Saldana is on the screen; when she's not around, and we're stranded with Worthington and his charisma-free crew (as long as Cameron's in recycle mode, he could've at least given us a Hudson-esque wild-card), the film becomes empty spectacle. But there's another positive: if nothing else, it looks like Cameron's found his next ass-kicking female muse! Where Cameron goes from here will obviously be dictated by the success of AVATAR. And while I'm pulling for him to break all box office records despite my overall disappointment with the film (the medium needs guys like Cameron, Spielberg and Jackson operating at full strength, if only because there's a legion of studio-mollifying hacks like Shawn Levy ready to spring up in their space), a minor humbling probably wouldn't hurt. Cameron's best films deal with blue-collar Americans battling aliens, machines or, in the case of his masterpiece, THE ABYSS, nature (without and within). True, AVATAR offers an interesting twist in that it's about bidding farewell to our wasteful, warlike race (and the nihilist in me kinda loves this), but it would be far more interesting (and tragic/bittersweet/controversial) if the film had an actual human in it. Sadly, his characters are just ciphers - either pure of heart or evil to the core of their being. And if the future of our country/planet really is in the hands of the Quaritch-es (as Cameron seems to be indicating, given the sorry state of Earth in AVATAR), I'm all too good with the systematic elimination of humankind. Maybe that's the point of this film. And maybe we've found a filmmaker who's even more disdainful of Americans than Jean-Luc Godard. And maybe I'm talking myself into loving this movie. Faithfully submitted, Mr. Beaks

Readers Talkback
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  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:37 p.m. CST

    Film is a visual medium

    by Tall_Boy66

    Visual medium, not just "bitch about how the dialogue is tedious medium"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:37 p.m. CST

    So, yeah, that review was not very helpful

    by Tall_Boy66

    "Everything is stupid but it looks pretty". Yeah, thanks there, Tips.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:38 p.m. CST

    WTH...

    by blhotz

    Where are the spoiler warnings?! But good read!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:38 p.m. CST

    Can only read first paragraph

    by Bellam

    Saving myself like a virgin for marriage.<p>But you sum it up, I guess. That seems to be the consensus, anyway. Knowing that the story is a bit done, I think I'll have a good time not expecting anything from it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:39 p.m. CST

    I doubt I'll be first

    by detectivesoap

    Avatar schmavatar.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST

    Finaly An Honest Review Thanks Beaks!

    by MANNZILLA

    All this slobbering over the film by the media reminds me of when king kong came out in 2005. As soon as the flash of the visual effects wear off, the characters and the plot comes into focus. Thats where so many modern movies fail. Effects reels do not make good movies.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST

    So it was what we thought it was

    by honestune

    Awe inspiring pop-corn fun -- leave your need for transcendental emotional exploration at the door. I'm good with that.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST

    That's what I get

    by detectivesoap

    for actually reading before posting. Silly me...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:43 p.m. CST

    The more I hear .... the more this sucks

    by jbs9200

    The more I hear about Avatar the more this movie sucks.<p> And, ... the special effects don't look that good. The work Blizzard did in their cut scenes looks better than the clips I have seen of Avatar.<p> Truely disappointing.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:43 p.m. CST

    The definitive mixed review...

    by themanwhojaped

    So, Beaks, did you like it or not? Your review is so mixed it's hard to determine. I wasn't expecting anything lifechanging but is it worth my $20 bucks to see it? Movies are expensive in Australia..

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:44 p.m. CST

    OMFG...Hollywood movies with CLICHES!

    by quantize

    Beaks you're a wanker. thanks for feeding the horde of micro-dicked peen heads who seem to think all movies MUST be a cerebral exercise...it's not like we WATCH them or anything is it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:46 p.m. CST

    FUCK YOU BEAKS!!!!

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    You thought BRING IT ON was better than The Dark Knight, Zodiac, The Wrestler... <P> I don't think you're in any position anymore to tell people what "good" film making is. You gave those privileges up with that disgusting list.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:47 p.m. CST

    If anyone can make a good "stupid" movie, it's Cameron

    by Ironhelix

    here's hoping.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:48 p.m. CST

    Beaks is cool for not liking avatar

    by JettL93

    please won't you be his friend...he also picked like 75 asian films as best of the decade. That makes him cool and in your face at a social level

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:49 p.m. CST

    So a rental at best

    by CZ

    The hype and Cameron's grandstanding have completely turned me off to this, and the more I read about Avatar, the more it's becoming clear to me that this is another white-boy meets noble-savage fantasy - with blue aliens so they don't piss off any real tribal peoples. And seriously, Cameron and Zemeckis need to wake up to the fact that their shiny technology is worth nothing if they can't figure out how to use it half as well as, oh, PIXAR.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:49 p.m. CST

    From everything we've seen and read before...

    by Jaka

    ...that's about what I was expecting when I watched it myself. But I'm still paying to see it in a theater this Sunday, because I REALLY want to check out the 3D and visual look of the film as Cameron intended it to be seen. I doubt I'll do any re-watching in a theater, though. That will have to wait for home viewings.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:49 p.m. CST

    A number of vertiginous flights through the verdant expanses of

    by benjustben

    That may be the quote they'll have to use in the ads.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:50 p.m. CST

    "Honest review"

    by ColonelFatheart

    I love when people who have opinions contrary to popular opinion are lauded for their "honest" views. Is Roger Ebert's four-star review any less honest than Beaks' or Faraci's? Is Nick Nunziata's? David Denby's? James Bernardelli's?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:51 p.m. CST

    JettL93

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    Don't forget that 95% of his choices have people fucking.. I mean "sexing" each other. This makes him a person who is deeply in touch with his emotions and sexuality.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:51 p.m. CST

    Not sure exactly what people were expecting?

    by LabattsBleu

    was it going to be another T2 or Aliens? Pretty tough to live up to, esp integrating the new technology <br><br> I'll be satisfied coming out of the movie entertained and seeing how well integrated the 3D world is...<br><br> And Blizzard did better?! Seriously? Haters need to get a life...the movie might fall short, but it won't be because the effects were below average; it will because JC spent all his time tweeking the camera and not reading the dialogue...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST

    "movie reviewer"

    by celebritydave

    is just another way of saying.. better than YOU!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST

    ColonelFathead

    by MANNZILLA

    He's honest because he's not afraid to dislike something in the face of the herd mentality so many reviewers succumb to with these type of movies.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:54 p.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by celebritydave

    because its rare for someone on here to criticize cameron. they have been bought and paid for. AICN = whores.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:54 p.m. CST

    It's amazing.

    by spectacles

    Truly was blown away by this film.<br> From the moment jake runs out as his avatar and we get engulfed in the world and have glimpses of netyri watching him. Epic stuff. Literary couldn't believed what I was seeing. This is one hell of a cinematic experience. Similar to Jurassic park and i'm sure what it was like with star wars in the cinema for you old fellas.<br> The audience lapped it up too. Except for these (and I'm not making this up) epic obese mega nerds who were dissing it at the credits, "game changer... pffft" whilst everyone around were super pumped with huge grins.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:55 p.m. CST

    JettL93

    by Bellam

    I honestly laughed out loud. Well. Giggled. Enough to startle the cat.<p>But seriously, my interest in seeing it isn't daunted.<p>Just remember, folks: there are no opinions when it comes to Avatar, only AGENDAS.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:56 p.m. CST

    Come midnight tomorrow

    by the_shogun_gunslinger

    We'll start seeing how "honest" this review is... who knows, maybe he's right... <P> Or maybe he'll prove once and for all that he's a complete retard. <P> We'll see.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:56 p.m. CST

    "honest reviews"

    by LabattsBleu

    sooo, you are saying that reviewers who liked crap movies are "honest" too? <br><br>So the few critics who hated the Dark Knight were the only "honest" reviews? I guess if you've already made a decision, you can spin it any way you want too...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Hey, I like Beaks' reviews

    by ColonelFatheart

    and agree with him generally. It's good that he's not afraid to voice contrary to popular opinion. It's the people that praise him for doing so that gets me. I saw the same shit back in 1999, just flipped the other way around. Die-hard Star Wars fanboys were latching onto any POSITIVE Phantom Menace and calling it "level-headed" or "honest." It's a fundamentally dishonest way to laud someone.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:58 p.m. CST

    You realize you will be killed for this Review

    by JeanGrey_X23_lesboSex

    Sleep tight

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 8:58 p.m. CST

    Ummm... SPOILERS TAG?

    by Antz

    Way to tell most of the movie in advance dude. Did we see the same film??? The audience I saw it with was just buzzing like crazy afterward. I haven't seen a crowd reaction like that for many years.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9 p.m. CST

    Beaks is a Jackass!

    by Mariusz

    How can you take someone who uses the word "ergo" seriously? Not to mention, he didn't include Dark Knight in his so-called 100 best films of the decade. This guy's a fuckin' moron. Like most of the dickheads contributing to this site - starting with Fat Ass Harry. That said, I do agree with one thing this clown said. It would be good for everyone if Cameron got a nice serving of Humble Pie on this one.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9 p.m. CST

    so what you're saying is...

    by inkingeekX

    I'll still have a spectacular night out at the movies? That's all I was hoping for. I love great cinema, great stories, etc...but sometimes I just want to leave the mundane and see shit blow up. I don't always have to come away from a movie with a message about the world-the world sucks, and a night at the movies is all about escapism.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9 p.m. CST

    We can argue until we're blue in the face...

    by ReportAbuse

    Heh. I've been waiting to use that one.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9 p.m. CST

    LabattsBleu

    by MANNZILLA

    Your goddamned right the few who hated the dark knight were honest. That movie while great in many respects was FLAWED. Just like the return of the king was FLAWED. But people sometimes are afraid to express their opinions when they face an avalanche of scorn for doing so. I dont give a shit what someone doesnt like, if they inteligently express why, then more power to them!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:01 p.m. CST

    LabattsBleu

    by ColonelFatheart

    I do not doubt Beaks' honesty any more than I doubt Ebert's.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Abyss is his masterpiece?

    by kjmad25

    Personally, my favorite Cameron film is Aliens. Fucking love that movie; beats the original in my opinion. Not to say that The Abyss isn't great too.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:05 p.m. CST

    Just once, JUST ONCE...

    by Jaka

    ...I would like for everyone who posts like the can say whatever they want in the anonymity of teh internets to be in a room with the same people the insult and degrade, speaking face to face. Yeah, just once.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:06 p.m. CST

    * THEY ^^

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Manzilla

    by LabattsBleu

    there's a difference about pointing our flaws in a film and insinuating that just because someone liked the movie they "aren't honest"...<br><br>All the 95% fresh reviews on TDK were "dishonest"? Or simply the fact that there was more good things in the film than bad, and therefore the film gets a positive rating? <br><br> Did you like TDK? or Return of the King? Positive review in spite of flaws? Or do you give it a negative review?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Seriously guys are we still having this

    by Bellam

    conversation?<p> People feel different ways about stuff. Mr. Beaks not loving it all up and down doesn't mean that, if you did, there is something wrong with you. It also doesn't mean there is something wrong with him.<p>You see, when you feel a way about something, and have ideas about why you feel that way and what in that something inspired you to feel that way, that's called an opinion. It cannot be right or wrong. It can be informed or uninformed, articulate or farty, strongly stately or weakly limped, but those are qualitative assessments of the form, and have no bearing on the legitimacy of the opinion.<p>For instance, I think you're all stupid.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    To be honest, it sounds like the length...

    by Jaka

    ...may be part of the problem. If it was shorter (tighter) there would be less time for the dialogue issues to be noticed and dwelled upon.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by LabattsBleu

    Never said I questioned any one's honesty - but being the contrarian does not mean a review is any more "honest" than a gushing review.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    Standing Ovation

    by deanbarry

    is what my 3D screening ended with. The audience lapped up every minute of this 3 hour long epic. I fucking loved this movie. My god. The animation, visual effects and the heart in this flick gave me goose pimples at regular intervals. Astounding, breath taking cinema.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:09 p.m. CST

    LabattsBleu

    by ColonelFatheart

    "there's a difference about pointing our flaws in a film and insinuating that just because someone liked the movie they "aren't honest"..." Wait, that's actually my point. How did we come to disagree?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Where was the Golden Globes coverage?

    by SmokeFilledTavern

    For fuck's sake. AVATAR was even nominated.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Where was the Golden Globes coverage?

    by SmokeFilledTavern

    For fuck's sake. AVATAR was even nominated.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:10 p.m. CST

    Beaks lost all credibility...

    by Colt19801980

    with that horrifying excuse for a "list". Is anybody surprised at this review? First of all, this man is no position to be relied on for reviewing a James Cameron movie when he thought goddamn Irreversible was the best movie this decade had to offer. Christ. Nothing wrong with the flick, but the best? Not by a country mile. So I'll be ignoring his opinion from now on.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:11 p.m. CST

    I Can't Trust Beaks After His Top 25 Picks

    by Broseph

    It Reeked Of I Want To Be In The Cool Kids Club

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:12 p.m. CST

    GOD DAMN BLUE HIPPIES NEED A NEW TREE

    by HaterofCrap

    i would have armed my mechs with giant future chainsaws. no savage can defeat the mighty chainsaw in battle!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:14 p.m. CST

    People who use art to sell politics

    by Castlemonster

    Are scum. Except political cartoonists. They aren't putting on airs and they don't get millions of dollars to do it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:14 p.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart - we don't...

    by LabattsBleu

    I think my post was directed at Manzilla initially...the truth is a lot of the reviews on RT are a little mixed; so just because a movie is at 85% Fresh doesn't mean that the reviewers are Sheeple <br><br> You either say thumbs up (flaws and all) or thumbs down...most reviews have it as a thumbs up, in spite of those flaws. "honesty" has nothing to do with it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:16 p.m. CST

    @BELLAM

    by Colt19801980

    I'm not arguing whether or not Beaks has a right to an opinion, of course he does. But he's a reviewer for this site, so we're supposed to take him seriously by default...but the guy's taste is extremely suspect...he is not an honest reviewer...he is biased...just look at his 100 list...he left off so many gems that I'm forced to believe one of two things about him...either he's batshit insane, or he's biased like a motherfucker...either way, he doesn't deserve to be listened to.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:16 p.m. CST

    It sucks.

    by Thall_Joben

    Overhyped - over saturated, predictable and corny. Should have been a game and cost about a tenth of what it did. Don't waste your time, go watch something that's better written. I'd sooner watch any episode of Battlestar than put myself through that sentimental shite again.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:17 p.m. CST

    Castlemonster

    by ColonelFatheart

    What about people who use politics to sell art?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:19 p.m. CST

    Visual Medium

    by Raskolnikov_was_framed

    for all you zeros complaining about Beaks review because film is only a "visual medium" are insane...it was a visual medium when Charlie Chaplin was prancing around the screen...now audio, dialogue, score, are just as important as the visuals...by your logic they could just charge 10 bucks to sit through "Sunrise Earth" in a theatre and you'd be happy...some of us want more than just pretty pictures

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST

    MadEyeMongo yes you win

    by MurderMostFowl

    You receive one free Internet.<BR><BR> Now, you can stop giving a shit about being first poster. That went out of style back in like... 1998 I think. Get over it. Why don't you try something really difficult... last post.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:21 p.m. CST

    I hate to be an asshole, but...

    by The_Crimson_King

    after Beaks top 100 list I'm not sure I really trust his reviews anymore, this is a guy that thinks Irreversible is better than countless movies he left off his list entirely

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:22 p.m. CST

    No one cares about AICN reviews.

    by DigitalDong

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Avatar is a consummate cinematic experience

    by Happyfat73

    I feel opposite to Beaks.. I feel this is Cameron's strongest film to date... by a significant margin.</p> The story may be familiar, but it was told with such skill and clarity that it doesn't matter. It's a simple story well told. And it must be subjective - because I was thoroughly engaged with the characters - though I agree Netyiri is the emotional core of the film.</p> It's impossible to divorce the visual feast from the story, because the visuals invite complete immersion in the world of Pandora. Like Beaks said, I didn't want to leave.</p> Overall, I tend to judge films by how they make me *feel*. Avatar made me feel good. Very, very good. </p> I left the cinema *feeling* the way I did after I saw those other imperfect masterpieces: LOTR. To me, that is a much more valid comparison than any plot-centric comparison like Dances With Wolves or Dune. I'm still buzzing from the experience and can't wait to go back.</p> Thanks Beaks... it was a good review, that I almost entirely disagree with.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:22 p.m. CST

    Spoilers?

    by TheHumanBeingAndFish

    Would "the whole planet is one giant neural network" constitute a spoiler, like the early leaked scriptment did? Oh well. As long as we're into spoiler territory, I really, really, REALLY hope they don't end with Jake "downloading" his mind into a new body - that'd reflect a fundamental misunderstanding on how neural networks function. Again, oh well.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:24 p.m. CST

    Of all the people on AICN - we get a Beaks review

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Is anyone actually working at this site anymore ?<p>

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:25 p.m. CST

    Hello , Harry, Massa ...

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:26 p.m. CST

    Just for seppuku

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    the edit bits of Beaks review "James Cameron - where was the rape???"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Down to 84% on RT

    by ReportAbuse

    A cogent review from nypress dot com: "Avatar is the corniest movie ever made about the white man’s need to lose his identity and assuage racial, political, sexual and historical guilt. Only children — including adult-children — will see Avatar as simply an adventure film; their own love of technology has co-opted their ability to comprehend narrative detail. Cameron offers sci-fi dazzle, yet bungles the good part: the meaning. His undeniably pretty Pandora ... distracts from the inherent contradiction of a reported $300-$500 million Hollywood enterprise that casually berates America’s industrial complex. Cameron’s superficial B-movie tropes pretend philosophical significance. His story’s rampant imperialism and manifest destiny ... recalls Vietnam-era revisionist westerns like Soldier Blue, but it’s essentially a sentimental cartoon with a pacifist, naturalist message. Avatar condemns mankind’s plundering and ruin of a metaphorical planet’s ecology and the aboriginals’ way of life. Cameron fashionably denounces the same economic and military system that make his technological extravaganza possible."

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:31 p.m. CST

    ahahahaahahahahahah

    by Ash_Williams

    Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength was right

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST

    ColonalFatHeart

    by Castlemonster

    They're just douchebags.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST

    And anyone who thinks Avatar's CG is bad...

    by Happyfat73

    ... likely has not seen the film. It is, quite simply, the best visual effects I have ever seen. I certainly can't think of anything that tops it in that category.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST

    told you so...

    by Ash_Williams

    suckers

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:33 p.m. CST

    LabattsBleu

    by MANNZILLA

    I guess I just like it when people can give their honest opinions without being lambasted. And sometimes people dont give their honest opinions because they are afraid of the repercussions. I mean look at the shit Beaks is getting for his top 100 list. Do I think he's out of his mind? Sure but I respect that he has the balls to give his honest opinion without caring what we think.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:34 p.m. CST

    LONG LIVE THE KING!

    by cloudrider`

    they doubted him with titanic. he proved everyone wrong. they doubted him again with avatar. and he proved them wrong again. see the pattern? DO. NOT. BET. AGAINST. THE. KING. OF. THE. WORLD. the king has returned. LONG LIVE THE KING!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:34 p.m. CST

    You heard it here first...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Mr. Beaks officially thinks Piranha II: The Spawning is better than Avatar by "a wide margin".</p><p>As for the world being in the hands evil fucks, look no further than the eviscerating health care reform is getting RIGHT NOW! Sick, evil, petulant ASSHOLES like Joe Lieberman are flushing America down the toilet for profit and revenge! EVERY SINGLE Republican is doing the same. They don't give a flying fuck about you, me, or anyone else who isn't lining their pockets with blood money. That's right, money earned off the corpses of Americans. So yeah, I think Cameron has called it pretty fucking clearly that this is where we are heading.</p>

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:36 p.m. CST

    And fuck people who quote reviews

    by Happyfat73

    ... to justify their expectations, before having seen the thing. See it or don't see it. If you see it - your opinion on it has subjective value.</p> If you don't see it because of you didn't like the trailer - fine, you have no obligation to watch it - but fuck off if you think your second-hand opinion means anything.</p>

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    avatar sucks

    by Ash_Williams

    its official. even my cat hates it, and she's a cat!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    SO NO EYEBALL FUCKERY?

    by ZombieHeathLedger

    Just vertigo.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:39 p.m. CST

    bad story, bad writing, bad acting

    by Ash_Williams

    its a hat trick

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:39 p.m. CST

    I hate ciphers.

    by Kontarsky

    Especially in action films. You'd think someone by now could make a great action film with great effects and actually give 2 damns about the characters they're writing in their CGI world.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:40 p.m. CST

    avatar for christmas is like

    by Ash_Williams

    getting a lump of cole in your stocking :(

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:43 p.m. CST

    ReportAbuse

    by ColonelFatheart

    Hahaha! You're praising Armond White for writing a "cogent" review?!?! Why don't you cite the parts where he praises Michael Bay? Please, at least cite J. Hoberman if you want to highlight a negative review.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Best Reviewer on AICN

    by bobwiley

    Beaks is the best and most objective reviewer on AICN's staff. His top 100 list had interesting movie choices. If all of you fanboy geeks actually watched some of the lesser-known films on his list, you would probably realize Beaks was inspired to say the least. This "Avatar" review sounded very level-headed and objective to me. Is there any doubt that the story, dialogue, and plot are weak? Has a Cameron film ever had a amazing script? No. But the guy can tell a simple story and make it look amazing with his skills as a director. Out of all the reviews I've read so far, Beaks' seems the most objective.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    avatar and transformers 2 are changing the game.

    by Ash_Williams

    the are making ok to completely jettison story, acting and dialogue. thanks, cameron... can we get more movies from blomkamp, abrahms and oren peli?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Thanks beaks; the review i was expecting

    by BendersShinyAss

    however, that said, your review had a few things that piss me off about 'fan reviews' ... you seem to merely just retell what happens with spoilers and offer comentary. <p>look, on paper and in conversation i can understand the dislike of good guys being good guys and bad guys being bad guys and little in between... but thats how james cameron makes his films and it never really bothered me before. It's sort of like giving Tarantino shit because his characters just talk and talk and talk and never seem to get to any point until the end. THAT'S the cinema these men built, so what else do you expect?? <p>All that said and one, this film will be the NEXT BIG TALKBACK DIVIDE and i think im looking more forward to that. hehe

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST

    phantom menace

    by Ash_Williams

    all over again.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST

    My eyeballs were fucked...

    by Happyfat73

    ... gently, by a master cocksmith, who had the good grace to withdraw early and spooge in my hair. Then we spooned and fell asleep.</p> Because, that's how you do it when you're in love.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:47 p.m. CST

    @Colt19801980

    by Bellam

    I don't think either his 100 list or this review mean anything about Beaks' credibility - I think that your reaction to them means that he does not speak for you. I only trust reviewers who have in the past and consistently had opinions that lined up with mine. I am an Ebert fan, for instance - aside from the fact that he's a great writer, he sees films in a way that reminds me of how I see films. There's a critical connection. Obviously a lot of folk aren't feeling that with Beaks, but y'all should honestly thank him for his list - because it means that you all know that his critical eye does not meet yours. What I think is juvenile is this 'credibility and integrity' stuff - because all it says, to me, is that people want what they love to be loved by all the way they love it and that, my friend, is just silly.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Ha ha, Fett

    by Castlemonster

    You mean Obama Claus isn't going to give you any free healthcare out of his stash? Tough luck, Comerade.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Happyfat73

    by Ash_Williams

    eew

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    LOL Blomkamp, Abrams

    by TheWaqman

    you trollin brah. So easy to see right through you.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    The trailers are 100% accurate then. This is exactly what...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...I've been expecting.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    ignore Castlemonster

    by Ash_Williams

    he's just butthurt that avatar is a heaping, steaming, pile of shit.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Ash Williams

    by Happyfat73

    Comparing Transformers 2 to Avatar is like comparing a tin of spam to a thick, juicy steak.</p> TF2 is an incoherent mess with no discernible story... Avatar had clearly drawn, sympathetic characters, with clear goals, honest motivations, operating in a plot that actually has narrative logic.</p> The main difference though, is that Cameron stages his action with precision and clarity, giving the audience a clear sense of geography and what is going on at all times. There's not a shaky cam or quick cut in the whole film.</p> James Cameron is a master at staging action sequences - Michael Bay just throws colour and noise at the screen in an incoherent mess.</p> You should really see the thing first before making such ridiculous comparisons.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:51 p.m. CST

    TheWaqman, no brah

    by Ash_Williams

    me no trollin. me genuinely like dem directors, mon

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Who said "free"?

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I'm willing to pay plenty for health care. I just don't want them cancelling it on me when it comes time to do their part. And unfortunately, that's how it works in America. They take and take and take and take, but when it comes time to give they kick in their army of lawyers to weasel out of it. Wait until your mom gets cancer, or you get AIDS. Then we'll see how you feel about the current health "care" system.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST

    I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO

    by ScaryWaitress

    And I fucking quote: <P>"unfortunately, none of these levels are marked 'storytelling', 'dialogue', 'character development' or 'subtle integration of theme'." <P>All of you who gave me so much shit over not giving him the benefit of the doubt and calling me a hater can kiss my lily-white ass. ANY TRAILER with the line "we're not in Kansas anymore" is going to be chock-full of cliche shit dialogue.<P>It's nice to be validated, sometimes.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Camp Meeting

    by TopHat

    All of you sound like born-again neo-conservative fanatics pissing themselves because someone has the audacity to have an opposing view based on informed opinions in contrast to your own uninformed ones. This proves that movie-going has become a religion. You are making just as many excuses to discredit Beaks as a zealot does to dismiss Darwinism. I've seen AVATAR. Its exactly as Beaks describes. These are not opinions. They're facts. Its scary how some of you quickly block out reality just to suit your own predijices. What's almost as scary is Beaks' final comments implying he's going to talk himself into loving this movie no matter what. Obviously, he could just be making a point. But, I have a horrible feeling that if he sees AVATAR a couple more times, especially on proper IMAX screens, he, like many mainstream critics, will give it a free pass. Because that is what giving this movie a positive review is; a well-aware cop-out. Anyone can see that this is Cameron's worst work. And after having the most amount of money ever given to a film, supposed free reign of a studio, and at least ten years for construction, there is absolutely no excuse for it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:54 p.m. CST

    How 'bout sticking to REVIEWING movies...

    by Bward

    ...rather than summarizing them in a scene-by-scene treatment. You've now told me how the first real action sequence plays out and, worse yet, ENDS. And by revealing the only two things you feel are "surprises", I can no longer be surprised because I'll be expecting them. It's not like I was going in believing the movie would blow me away absolutely, but I'd still like to go in with as little knowledge about the actual sequences as possible. Too much to ask?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:54 p.m. CST

    by Ash_Williams

    Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength was right

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    Abyss Sucked

    by menacingphantom

    Now I can't trust this review. I'm erring on the side of thinking it was too positive.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    @ScaryWaitress

    by Bellam

    So, what you're saying is, because someone else has the opinion you want to have, but can't because you haven't seen it, that makes you right?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:56 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Jaka

    What's your ass look like, exactly? ... eh, never mind. <br><br>Any of you think maybe the other AICN'ers don't have reviews up because they feel the same way? Or like it even less? Just sayin'.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:57 p.m. CST

    Still sucks

    by Thall_Joben

    Busy and hard to accomplish does not necessarily equal beauty. I thought it was crass, loud , dumb and not half as imaginative as Cameron would have you believe. It was badly written, unoriginal, primary color bullshit. Nothing we haven't read/seen before in a dozen computer games. A complete waste of the budget - Universal could have financed a mountain of ''District 9's or 'Moon's for their money and discovered a bunch of nwonderful ew directors in the process- instead Cameron gets his ego fed and we get this nauseating Speed Racer/Halo/Fern Gully crap. Sorry.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:57 p.m. CST

    I don't know about this one...

    by PolyesterRage

    To me it always sounded like Pocahontas In Space with Blue Furry People. Anyways, I do love James Cameron, but I don't care how pretty it is, you can't excuse having a crappy, hackneyed script.<br><br>Hopefully I'm totally wrong, Beaks is totally wrong, and the film is fucking amazing.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:57 p.m. CST

    menacingphantom, ahmen brother

    by Ash_Williams

    abyss sucked. worst. ending. ever.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Leave the health care debate to the political blogs ...

    by ColonelFatheart

    We're here to debate eyeball fucking.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Couldn't they just unplug Jake's body at the hospital?

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Not necessarily kill him or anything, but break the link between his physical mind/body at the hospital and the avatar?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by Bellam

    I think you're right. I think they're giving it until Friday so they can have something to anchor the Avatar TB to, and give Jim a bit of a break because he fed them info directly.<P>But you should check out Drew's review on HitFix if you haven't. Basically he calls the film Jesus.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo, I'm with you

    by Jaka

    Exactly what I expected. What I've been trying to get across for the last month is that everybody on both sides of the argument were expecting too much, or too little. That's it's probably NOT going to be "game-changing", but probably not the worst movie ever made, either (and anybody who tries to say that is completely full of shit).

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Happyfat73

    Fuck off, you're not validated... you're just regurgitating someone else's opinion. </p>You'll be validated when you actually see it through the lens of your own predictable confirmation bias. Only then , will you be validated to come back and hate on it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    Bellam

    by ScaryWaitress

    What I'm saying is, nothing- and I mean NOTHING- I saw in clips, previews, and articles on this movie led me to believe that anything OUTSIDE the special effects was worth talking about. This review painted a clearer picture of EXACTLY what I have been expecting to see when I see this pic. The problems Mr. Beaks has with it ARE THE SAME PROBLEMS I have had with a LOT of Cameron's work.<P>He hasn't been able to vreate any really interesting characters in a long time, because HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE. You can only tell the same action-flick plot storyline so many times before it starts to get tired.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    Cameron's "masterpiece, THE ABYSS"?

    by LoneGun

    Really, Beaks? You really think THE ABYSS was James Cameron's "masterpiece". Personally, I found it an underwhelming follow-up to his two sensational TERMINATOR films and his unexpectedly stunning ALIEN sequel. In the wake of those films, THE ABYSS came across as somewhat slow, dull and heavy-handed in its environmentalist themes. It wasn't bad, but It didn't have anywhere near the same kind of edginess and fearless drive of his previous movies.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    avatar is like

    by Ash_Williams

    james cameron chasing you around with a poop on a stick. in 3-d

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Fett

    by Castlemonster

    Good luck suing the government, dude.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Avatar fans were the Trolls the whole time :)

    by Trannyformers_Apologist

    <P> 3D VFX explosions > story script acting dialogue character soul heart theme <P>haha

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST

    ...the half dozen cliches in the clips are enough to kill...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...most any movie for me. I can't imagine any movie bouncing back from a line like "we're not in Kansas anymore".

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST

    Ok Ash...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    That poop on a stick in 3D comment was pretty funny, lol.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST

    ARE WE TO THEN INFER THAT BRING IT ON > AVATAR?

    by BringingSexyBack

    Think I'll stick with the majority opinion.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST

    i think that cameron fans

    by Ash_Williams

    like big, dumb, fun, entertainment. and thats ok, i guess. its like people who like big time wrestling.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST

    ...I still hope to half enjoy it for what it is though.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Bellam

    by Jaka

    Thanks. I will, actually. Because I usually agreed with Drew when he was around these parts. And for the life of me I couldn't remember the name of that site. I wanted to go there the other day and I was totally drawing a blank.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Trannyformers_Apologist, hha ha yes

    by Ash_Williams

    ive been saying that for months.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    @Bellam

    by Colt19801980

    "I don't think either his 100 list or this review mean anything about Beaks' credibility - I think that your reaction to them means that he does not speak for you." We're not talking about a list with a couple of oversights, which can be forgiven...his list left off The Dark Knight, The Wrestler, Zodiac, Requiem for a Dream, Unbreakable and others...in their place? Classics such as Bring It On, Talladega Nights, Friday Night Lights, Observe and Report, Jackass The Movie, Bad Santa, Femme Fatale, and on and on and on...It's a sloppy list, one that any self respecting reviewer would not release to the public...Beaks thought Anchorman was the 12th best movie of the entire decade. He thinks It's not about he and I having differing views...that's what me and my drinking buddies go through together...it's about credibility as a professional movie reviewer on a professional website, at least he aspires to be. If any other pro reviewer released a list this horrid, he'd probably be blacklisted from his publication and never taken seriously again. It's about maintaining a standard of excellence in cinema reviewing...it's just like you don't see Cannes handing out top prizes to shit like Anchorman, yet Beaks thinks it's the 12th best movie of the decade...it just doesn't add up and goes beyond just having an opinion.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    HappyFat...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Actually, I'm not regurgitating anything. I made several comments in a previous TB about how what I have seen re: Avatar in promos is SEVERELY underwhelming. No characters to be excited about, cliched dialogue, etc. This review says that, if those are problems I have with the previews, I will have two hours more problems when I see the movie. <P>And, fwiw, I don't think this will be the worst movie ever made... I never did. I just think it won't be memorable, aside from the straight visuals. Which I expected anyway.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    I liked it the first time I saw it...

    by beetlegeuse

    when it was called Fern Gully

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Bellam

    Okay. I am hung up on 'validates', but I'll get over it. I just hope the dialogue isn't, like, Titanic bad.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Beaks-remember you loved that Rape movie.

    by Sal_Bando

    Remember??? the one where Monica B. gets assaulted for 20 minutes? <p> Doesn't make any of your comments here about 'excess' and 'corniness' and 'predictability' hold up too well, does it? <p> It has giant Robots too. Fuck off.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    ColonelFatheart

    by Castlemonster

    Sounds good but in this case the movie is blatantly political. The director doesn't deny it. So it would seem to be fair game.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:06 p.m. CST

    RICKROLL: THE MOVIE

    by Trannyformers_Apologist

    Fucking your wallet on Dec. 18<P> everything. else. matters<P> hahaha "This generation's Star Wars" HAHAHA yeah right hehehe

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:08 p.m. CST

    ...yeah, I've always liked THE ABYSS best.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:08 p.m. CST

    haters will find any excuse to shit on this movie

    by Colt19801980

    "See, it's not perfect! Take that Cameron lovers!" What a bunch of children.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:09 p.m. CST

    star wars prequels > avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    suck it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:09 p.m. CST

    LilyWhiteScaryWaitressAss

    by Jaka

    Sorry, I have a thing for pale asses on woman. Heh. Anyway, I'm going to first extend an olive branch to you because I don't think the way people respond around here, particularly in Avatar threads, is polite, acceptable or even sane half the time. So, no hard feelings from anything we discussed before or will discuss going forward. Now... <br><br> I don't recall the previous discussion exactly the same way you do. I never took umbrage with your assertion that Cameron's dialogue wasn't "the best ever written", or even that it has sometimes been below average. My point the entire time was just that it fit his films. He isn't making English period dramas. He's not trying to win Best Actor Oscar's for his cast. He's always used dialogue as a tool to get along to the next set piece or battle. Sure, sometimes there's a "theme", and maybe that actually makes the dialogue more cringe worthy for some folks. Regardless, I just want to be clear on the fact that my point was ALWAYS that his dialogue fit his films. Maybe Avatar is a new low, maybe not. Since neither one of us, I'm assuming, have seen it yet, maybe we should wait until that happens before we go making grand proclamations.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    george lucas > james cameron

    by Ash_Williams

    fact. george lucas has contributed more to cinema than cameron ever has.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    ALL of Cameron's movies are popcorn flicks

    by terry1978

    But...he always includes that one thing that the others lack....heart. True Lies in anybody else's hands would have been straight garbage.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    On Par With LOTR

    by Happyfat73

    That's how I felt coming out of the theatre. That's how I still feel. Avatar has the emotional weight and immersive detail as Return of the King, except with better VFX and without the 25 minute anti-climax.</p> If you are the kind of person who likes massive epics with a massive heart, then this film is for you.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Colt19801980

    by Bellam

    But Beaks doesn't think it's THE 12th best movie of the decade - it's HIS 12th best movie of the decade. And, for me, I'm glad I didn't have his decade, cause JESIS. I think a critic needs to be honest to his heart - and his list genuinely stands for nothing in the annals of cinema history. Time will out what is genuine art and what is Talledega.<p>But Bring it On is the shit, everyone needs to realize that.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:12 p.m. CST

    The Abyss - Director's Cut

    by Bellam

    That knocked my socks off. Funnily enough, I liked the theatre cut of Aliens better - it's tighter and creepier.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:12 p.m. CST

    @Ash_Williams

    by Thall_Joben

    Re: Abyss ending - I completely agree. Isn't anyone else around here just completely sick to the bone of Cameron's arrogance? Humility is a virtue not a sign of weakness! He wears his 'I'm a prick' like an idiot '80's-middle-management' badge of honor. Titanic was the writing on the wall for me, he totally catered for the lowest possible denominator, (so of course it was a huge success). For me that's when he lost all artistic credibility - not that I think he'll give a shit what anyone thinks once the money comes rolling in.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:13 p.m. CST

    And where is everybody seeing it?

    by Jaka

    Are you overseas someplace where it's been released? Or did you download from a torrent? If it's the later your opinion is disqualified. Sorry.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:14 p.m. CST

    ...I'd love to ask Cameron if he misses playing with real toys..

    by FlickaPoo

    ...any making-of doc on any of his past movies shows him gleefully building, taking apart, re-assembling, rigging together with duct-tape...he seemed to really love it.<P>I wonder how he really feels about not getting his hands dirty anymore...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:15 p.m. CST

    FIRST!!!!!

    by jackson healy

    Yeah!!!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:16 p.m. CST

    As the resident Big Robots (Hitting Each Other Once Again) fan h

    by Sal_Bando

    -trust me, there is NO way in hades that Mikey Bay's Robots fracas is Anywheres near as good as Avatar. Cameron is a really good director, and his movies actually have, you know, plots and semi-decent dialogue. Mikey Bay has things that go BOOM, rah-rah military help and crude jokes. That's how it is. I like both directors but there's not a comparison.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:16 p.m. CST

    2012 = avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    you know what i mean

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:16 p.m. CST

    Aww FUCK!!

    by jackson healy

    well... maybe next time...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by Happyfat73

    I'm in Australia... saw it yesterday afternoon. And ignore Ash Williams, he knows not what he speaks.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Jaka, I accept your olive branch...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...how lovely of you to offer it. And, I remember you saying that in the previous TB... my argument then was (and continues to be) that that isn't good enough for me anymore, and Titanic was the last straw for me on that point. I get that he's not trying to write high drama... I even appreciate that. I maintain, Aliens is one of my top 3 movies OF ALL TIME, and that sure as hell ain't Shakespeare. <P>If people are going to call an upcoming movie a "game-changer", it needs to work on more levels than just visuals... and we were hearing ZERO about anything other than visuals when this film was being promoted. That had me suspicious from the get-go. Will I see Avatar? Probably. Am I excited? No more than I was to see Face/Off. I kid you not.<P>Oh, and I just watched Aliens again for like, the millionth time. FUCKING MOVIE GOLD. God, I wish Cameron was still young and hungry... and the technology hadn't "caught up to his vision." When filmmakers have to improvise, they get some of their best work.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:17 p.m. CST

    ...Bellam, yes, I just saw the extended of ALIENS...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...the other night. I thought the original was better with the exception of the stuff about Ripley's daughter. <P>The added info about Newt's family was completely unnecessary...killed the mystery...and that terrible line about "if I catch you two playing around in the air ducts again!"...way to telegraph with a sledge hammer...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST

    just saw it in 3d IMAX

    by shalom82

    ...yeah this is definitely the guy who gave us T2. People, I don't know much, but I do know that ANYONE who says that the CGI in this is bad is a moron. I still can't believe what I just saw.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST

    actually a decent review

    by j_difool

    which may be a first for this site, which usually provides only sloppy blowjobs.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST

    ALIENS, as I've said before --

    by jackson healy

    is Cameron's high water mark. I know Avatar's not gonna be Aliens, but I'm willing to give the old general an honest shot at winning me over. Till then, I'll wait to see the film and make my own mind up.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST

    Thall_Joben, agreed

    by Ash_Williams

    cameron is the kind of guy who drives a red 1989 corvette. while wearing a leather jacket and leather racing gloves.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:21 p.m. CST

    Wait.... so the Navi win?!?!?

    by Onin Solstice

    Unless I'm missing something, the Navi should go the way of the Apache and get beat into a corner and restricted to a certain section of Pandora. How spears and flying lizards can hold up against real weapons of war is something I have to see!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:22 p.m. CST

    Finally, the truth! Avaturd it is.

    by Fa Fa Fooey

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:23 p.m. CST

    just look at Army of Darkness

    by Ash_Williams

    that is a fantasy movie with no budget. but its a great movie because it has great writing, characters and story. the second rate special effects accomplished what they needed to. and guess what. in 10 years i will still be a fan of army of darkness and i will have forgotten all about avatar.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:25 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo - Ripley's daughter...

    by Bellam

    You're right, that could have fit with the original cut nicely. The thing about the theatrical release, his editor smartly understood that the movie was about Ripley, and Sigourney Weaver's incredible, transcendent performance. I see the extended Aliens, when held up to the original, as a textbook example of why things are cut. Extended doesn't make it bad film, but a lesser one.<p>The crazy flip side is the Abyss, which in it's extended edition made the film feel whole. But what was cut out of that wasn't unnecessary - it WAS the film. That they were able to find another film to cut to within that is cool, but... editors, man.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:26 p.m. CST

    MANZILLA

    by LabattsBleu

    "I guess I just like it when people can give their honest opinions without being lambasted. And sometimes people dont give their honest opinions because they are afraid of the repercussions." <BR><BR> certainly, reviewing on this site in particular has its perils (for negative reviews)...that being said, sometimes I wonder if reviews that are overly negative (not just mixed) are simply seeking 'hits' on their obscure websites....Cameron has never been great at dialogue, so I accept that as a potential failure of Avatar...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:26 p.m. CST

    i battled for months against avatar/cameron fans

    by Ash_Williams

    where are they now? where are they? gone. like a puff of smoke. *poof*

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:26 p.m. CST

    george lucas

    by ieatgarbage

    completely fucked the prequels. completely fucked. took them to a desolate clearing in the woods and fucked them quickly and idiotically and still the whole thing felt like thirty decades of horrid squeaky fucking. it's debatable whether he's better than cameron after that awful fuckfest. i mean those movies are so fucking bad i don't even know where to begin. this lucas>cameron i don't really buy. but then again. "i can still smell the fresh paint"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:27 p.m. CST

    ...and CG, no matter how good, distances me from...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...a character and a movie. This can be overcome with great writing and character development....hell, I've seen plays that make you love a sock puppet if the writing is strong enough.<P>The double hurdles of CG characters, even if groundbreaking, and corny writing are going to be tough to get over...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:27 p.m. CST

    I liked it... worth seeing in 3D

    by CmdX

    I thought it was a good movie when I watched it at BNAT and look forward to watching it again tomorrow night in (real) IMAX 3D

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:29 p.m. CST

    LA Times raved about this movie

    by Redmond

    As have most reputable critics.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST

    The thing about getting your eyes fucked...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ... is that you're going to be sitting there, in the dark movie theater, being periodically snapped back into reality by the discomfort of having your chin hit the floor every few seconds. <P>This may not SOUND like a problem but it is. Take, for example, Titanic. The scenes were breathtakingly shot. It was FASCINATING to be there, on the Titanic. We were there! But of course, this is the 20th century, really, so he had to cast 20th century actors... and as good as Kate and Leo are, what Cameron REALLY needed to do was cast Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire. SERIOUSLY. Old-timey, classic film people. NOT look-alikes.<P>So, with Avatar, we have this problem: stunning, all-emcompassing visuals... but no dirt. No snappy dialog. Nothing to keep you in, to make you BELIEVE in this world instead of just gape in awe. It's one-night-stand eye-fucking, not a long-term relationship.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST

    Saw it this morning

    by eggers

    Good but not OMG my eyes are bleeding. The Na'vi do look real and you forget they are CGI but I won't be buying a 3D ticket again, it isn't worth the extra money.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST

    ieatgarbage, lucas adds to cinema

    by Ash_Williams

    cameron makes popcorn flicks. <p> thx-1138 > avatar. star wars > terminator. empire strikes back > titanic. american graffiti > true lies. willow > piranha 2

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:33 p.m. CST

    Morons think good CGI looks bad

    by Castlemonster

    That's curious. I would have expected the opposite. Are you absolutely sure <i>you're</i> not a moron? Come to that, are you sure you were at the right movie?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:33 p.m. CST

    ...Bellam, I've sometimes wondered why editors...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...aren't as famous as directors. I mean, you've got hours and hours of film to be cut down into a two hour movie...I sometimes think the editor is at least 50% of the movie. I mean 50% of the whole movie...the rest is split up between director, actors, cinematographers etc...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:34 p.m. CST

    denby's

    by ieatgarbage

    review in the new yorker--which is positive--says pretty much what beaks says here.<p> this most of the reputable rags thing isn't quite honest or accurate <p> i think this movie can be enjoyed as pure spectacle and i'll be there opening night.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:35 p.m. CST

    wow, no one has called me a troll yet

    by Ash_Williams

    or threatened my life. its nice to be vindicated.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:36 p.m. CST

    Nothing can be as bad as Titanic.

    by Solitary_Poet

    I'm going to go see this movie and I'm going to love it, because it's not Titanic. As far as I can tell, there is no modern love triangle in this movie and that makes it rock.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:36 p.m. CST

    no one is criticizing the cgi

    by Ash_Williams

    they are criticizing the shitty writing, dialogue and acting

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:36 p.m. CST

    by Ash_Williams

    Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength was right

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Ash Williams

    by Happyfat73

    I feel sorry for you... because, no matter what, you won't enjoy this film. Your preconceived judgement against it is palpable. Your hate is already locked in place.</p> Now, I owe a debt of gratitude to the haters like you, because, although I was excited for a new James Cameron sci-fi blockbuster, that expectation was tempered by too much hype and a plethora of internet hate.</p> So, my lowered expectation resulted in this film blowing my fucking head off. One of the great cinematic experiences of my life.</p> So, I kinda pity you because you'll obviously never allow yourself to become engaged by the film - the rich world and sympathetic characters - and you won't feel the joy that I felt.</p> But I thank you too - because it was the haters like you that helped measure my expectations enough to be completely caught by surprise. Thanks, dude.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Ash, umm...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Not.<P>Aliens>All the prequels put together. Abyss>Willow.<P>You're doing a clash of the titans here, which is pointless. BOTH have created some fan-fucking-tastic work. Both have created less than miraculous movies as well. Let it go. <P>And Lucas' dialogue is worse than Cameron's. My previous quibbling with "unobtanium" aside, Lord DOO-KOO? Puh-leeze.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:38 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Jaka

    "If people are going to call an upcoming movie a "game-changer", it needs to work on more levels than just visuals." I can agree with you on that, mostly. And I only say mostly because a few of his films have approached the level of "game changing" visually, but weren't proclaimed as such before hand. The liquid alien in The Abyss, also used for the T1000, if I remember, are attributed to Cameron and his team. That effect was used to death afterwords. Also, Titanic was considered a game changer after it's release (people forget this), went so far over budget the studio was loosing their minds and then went on to make made an ass load of money. So the dialogue, terrible or not - whether anybody likes it or not, may not have a lot to do with the success of the film. I never really had an argument for the "not in Kansas anymore" line, though. That was bad every time I saw the commercial. <br><br>Anyway, I've read some pretty glowing reviews at some other places now, so I'm going to continue walking the middle line until I've seen it for myself.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:39 p.m. CST

    ...and I also suspect that as a director gets more powerful...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...his or her movies often start to suck more...because now they get to push the editor around...and a good editor knows best.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Not Fully Released

    by RefutetheHype

    and the backlash, the real audience backlash, has already started. Not one true rave anywhere on AICN. Best you're getting is that it's at best passable, and there is ALWAYS a quick remark that it's not about story or characters. Sorry, it's ALWAYS about story and characters. You lose, Big Jim Slim Jim.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:40 p.m. CST

    Happyfat73, if this was the greatest cinimatic

    by Ash_Williams

    event in your life, then you must be 10 years old.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:41 p.m. CST

    From the guy who would rather watch Bring It On

    by MandrakeRoot

    And your complaining about cliches and bad dialogue? C'mon now. <p> Anyone who does not see Avatar in theaters will miss out on history. 40 years from now this film will be looked back upon like Star Wars. Like how the older generation is lucky for seeing Star Wars and getting their mind blown like nothing ever before. That's exactly what Avatar will be like. And despite Beaks review, many critics have praised the story and characters, and many have labelled it an instant sci-fi classic, while admitting their early skepticism. But is anyone gonna honestly say that Star Wars had good dialogue, or didn't have cliches? Please, give me a break. You just look back with Rose-tinted glasses. <p> Avatar will have the exact same effect on audiences as Titanic. Anyone who doesn't see this I feel bad for you. Your gonna miss out on one of the most stunning, memorable, good-old-fashion fun time at the movies ever. Sucks. For. You.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:41 p.m. CST

    i would say

    by ieatgarbage

    empire became so successful becomes lucas had to compromise his vision and share the helm. he got the ball rolling sure, i'll give you that. but the star wars films stopped being good after empire. jedi is dog shit. the prequels are unspeakably bad. calling thx better than avatar before you've seen it (avatar) is outrageous. <p> but of course Empire is better than Titanic. I think Titanic is laughably bad. the whole thing was trite. but damn. billions of girls were looking up to a girl/boy scenario where they at least got to fuck. <p> too bad Twilight is gonna create a bunch of tweens with dusty vaginas. <p> and beaks list was fine. ebert gave blue velvet zero stars and the knowing 4. does that completely invalidate him once and for all? and for my money, yeah, for what Bring it On does within its Genre, it probably is more successful than TDK. However, Ledger's performance is definitely top ten of the decade. he carried an otherwise bland movie.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Jaka, on that we agree, really...

    by ScaryWaitress

    I AM actually walking the middle line... but I don't get to see many movies in the theater these days, so I'm just not getting my hopes up to be blown away is all. I'm going in braced for OK, hoping against all hope to be really pleasantly surprised... and if i AM, I am the kind of girl who will come back here and admit it. <P>Bank on that.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:42 p.m. CST

    Happyfat73, you sound like a cult member

    by Ash_Williams

    you should re-read your post. you literally drank the cool aid

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:42 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo, because editors...

    by Jaka

    ...work for the director and/or producer. Not to be a dick about it, but more often than not they're just doing what they're told. A lot of directors actually sit in the editing bay and watch what they're doing or decide which pieces of film will be used.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:42 p.m. CST

    and i call the TDK

    by ieatgarbage

    bland but hell. i saw that bitch three times in the theater. i loved heath. the fact that he had just died of a drug overdose. the whole thing resonated with me. i havent yet watched it on video or could finish it on video. it has definitely worn off. <p> Spiderman 2 was the superhero flick of the decade <p> that i had to walk out of three doesn't portend well for that franchise.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m. CST

    TDK

    by ieatgarbage

    not the "the dark knight" that's retarded. my bad.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m. CST

    like saying ATM machine.

    by ieatgarbage

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Ash

    by RefutetheHype

    Notice how as the truth gets out, and we're proved right, the more people are coming up saying "Yeah, I always thought it looked kindof lame." Yep. we're winning and it's not even fully out yet. AVATAR has tanked with audiences if not yet with the box-office. It has not changed the game. It has not changed the world. It will be forgotten in a few weeks. I bet it won't even be #1 next week.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m. CST

    Lucas and Cameron-who is better?

    by Castlemonster

    You don't need to decide! Just throw them both in a giant blender and hit the frappe button! Bottoms up!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:43 p.m. CST

    all i know is that star wars was a game changer

    by Ash_Williams

    and avatar aint star wars

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:44 p.m. CST

    And I always forget Australia lives in the future...

    by Jaka

    ...dang it. : (

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:44 p.m. CST

    rip roy disney

    by brabon300

    cuz i just wanna bum you fuckers out

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:47 p.m. CST

    RefutetheHype, yep

    by Ash_Williams

    where are all the "usual suspects"? all those people who attacked us for saying negative things about avatar? they all went bye bye. (you know who you are. and i know your reading this)

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:47 p.m. CST

    The Abyss had three really GREAT things going for it...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Ed Harris<{>Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio<P>Michael Biehn.<P>Oh, and it had some cool visuals, too... but I maintain (revolutionizing water-tentacle efects aside) that that movie would have been just as good without the effects, which is WHY it is a masterwork of Cameron's. AND a truly lovely score, now that I think of it... I need to see it again.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:47 p.m. CST

    brabon300, it's been in every talkback since like...

    by Jaka

    ...noon, PST. And they may do an obit piece for Roy here at AICN, but a lot of what he did was actually behind the scenes business stuff. Not so much film making. So they may not.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:48 p.m. CST

    Ash Williams

    by Happyfat73

    I re-read my post. It was about how my expectations for the film were measured, but the reality was a fucking amazing cinematic experience (not "THE greatest", but "one of the great" cinematic experiences).</p> The real difference between you and me, though, is that I've actually SEEN the film we're talking about.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:48 p.m. CST

    ...Jaka, I realize that. My DVD remote has a "menu"...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...button that allows me to access the special features too.<P> I tried to indicate in the post in question that it was half hyperbole...but I still say a good editor makes or breaks a movie. Like I said, I just saw the extended cut of ALIENS the other day for the first time...just adding a few scenes made it significantly less effective. And that was just adding a few scenes to an already great movie...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:49 p.m. CST

    ieatgarbage... I hate

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...how they say "Use your Mastercard card" on all of the commercials now. It's like, FUCKERS, we KNOW it's a fucking CARD, it's RIGHT THERE IN THE NAME. <P>GODDAMIT!!!!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST

    we need to vote with our dollars

    by Ash_Williams

    keep the video games in the video game consoles and keep the movies in the theater. paranormal activity will be more profitable and is a better movie than avatar. suck on that. (and think about it for a minute)

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Refutethehype

    by Happyfat73

    Yep... you win, mate. You get something else in your life to hate. I get the experience of enjoying a great film on its own merits - not based on preconceptions, hype or second-hand opinions.</p> Congratulations, enjoy the victory.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by eggers

    We also got it a day early, Thursday not friday.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST

    we need to vote with our dollars

    by Ash_Williams

    keep the video games in the video game consoles and keep the movies in the theater. paranormal activity will be more profitable and is a better movie than avatar. suck on that. (and think about it for a minute)

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:51 p.m. CST

    RefutetheHype and Ass Williams

    by Jaka

    Did you actually READ Beaks review? He doesn't call it the biggest piece of shit ever. He doesn't even call it bad. He basically just says it wasn't everything he wanted or was expecting. Get over yourselves and actually GO SEE WATCH A MOVIE, once, please. And saying it won't be number one this weekend is hilarious as there is nobody did any counter-programming. What, you think Princess and the Frog, which made $25 million this weekend is going to jump up and beat Avatar? The Blindside is suddenly going to have the best fifth weekend in the history of cinema? lol Avatar will make $100 million this weekend just from people finally getting to see the damn thing for themselves. What it does after that remains to be seen.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:52 p.m. CST

    "you never walked away from anything

    by Ash_Williams

    in your life, now fight!!!!" <p> best cheesy movie line ever.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:52 p.m. CST

    Avatar is meant to be seen in Imax 3d.

    by snakecharmer

    Much like a rock concert is meant to be seen in person not on a dvd played on your crappy walmart surround sound. Got my Imax 3D tickets.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:52 p.m. CST

    "40 years from now this film will be looked back upon like Star

    by Castlemonster

    Good Gawd! Let's hope not! That means we'll have 40 years of utter dreck to look forward to.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:52 p.m. CST

    loserguy

    by ieatgarbage

    thanks for the lamest rant i have ever read. you're a real fucking treat.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Happyfat73

    by theKRELL

    If you are ten you've still got 2 years on JackAsh. That and the FACT that he has his lunch money taken from him and beaten on a daily basis for being the true DOUCHEBAG that he is!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo... ouch. lol

    by Jaka

    OK, I think my point is that if you said "editing", I would totally agree with you. But not "editor". That's all I'm saying.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo... ouch. lol

    by Jaka

    OK, I think my point is that if you said "editing", I would totally agree with you. But not "editor". That's all I'm saying.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST

    Hey I only hit the button once!

    by Jaka

    WTH?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST

    loserguy3000

    by ScaryWaitress

    Wow, livin' up to your handle there, ain't ya? "So go ahead critics, continue to spoil and ruin the movie experience for everyone else. Make sure that your self-important ass feels special when you think you've 'saved' some poor soul from spending their own money on a movie they might have wanted to see..."<P>Sweeite, you know this is a site for GEEKS, right? If you don't want your precious Avatar cherry popped for you by a critic, GO TO BABYCENTER.COM WHERE YOU BELONG. <P>Holy shit, the whining. I can't take all the whining.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:56 p.m. CST

    I think what Beaks meant was...

    by Cletus Van Damme

    ..."it was doomed to fail the minute it wasn't titled 'Irreversible.'"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:56 p.m. CST

    yeah

    by ieatgarbage

    seriously. beaks review isn't even completely negative. it seems right in line with a lot of the positive reviews on rotten tomatoes. you people are fucking insane. <p>my favorite word is pretentious.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:56 p.m. CST

    Jaka, transformers 2 made a boat load of money

    by Ash_Williams

    'nuff said

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:58 p.m. CST

    theKRELL, have you read this thread?

    by Ash_Williams

    overwhelmingly negative on avatar. fuck off.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 10:59 p.m. CST

    Great Cinematic Experiences

    by Happyfat73

    So, I think Avatar was a brilliant cinematic experience... One of those films that makes you *feel* something - that just draws you in, engages you and carries you along for the ride.</p> Now, I'm 36 (not ten) and some of the other film experiences that I remember making me feel this way: Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark & Temple of Doom,Total Recall, Terminator 2, Jurassic Park, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix...</p> I feel Avatar fully deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as those films - in the pantheon of great pulp cinema - fun, engaging and greater than the sum of their parts.</p> Now, what defines a great cinematic experience for others may be different - but Avatar engaged me as completely as any of those other films. And then fucked my eyeballs.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11 p.m. CST

    Ash... re Transformers 2 making lots of $

    by ScaryWaitress

    Carlo Rossi sells millions of cases of jug wine every year, too, that doesn't make it GOOD WINE.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11 p.m. CST

    ieatgarbage, you dont know

    by Ash_Williams

    what your favorite word means

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by RefutetheHype

    I said NEXT week.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress, exactly my point

    by Ash_Williams

    thank you

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    HappyFat...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Putting Temple of Doom and Avatar in the same breath is actually meaner than anything else I've seen on here tonight. That is some cold shit, friend.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    ...Jaka...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...my impression (and I'm no expert) is that a few directors basically edit their own movies...some work with the editor...some defer to the editor unless they strongly disagree...and some aren't allowed within 500 meters of an editing booth by law.<P>I still argue that as some directors achieve more control and power..ahem, Lucascough, they get to bigfoot around and meddle when they should listen and learn.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:02 p.m. CST

    doom > avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    the movie doom, i mean. yes, that one.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:02 p.m. CST

    I actually dug the Titanic! I am Jack Dawson.

    by Ganymede3001

    I went through the same thing with a chic who was torn between a millionaire and my broke ass. In real life, the bitch always chooses the millionaire. So fuck her as many times as you can before she jumps on the money train.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:02 p.m. CST

    No sweat Ash.

    by ScaryWaitress

    Fucking Carlo Rossi. <shudder>

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:03 p.m. CST

    JackAsh....

    by theKRELL

    Carry your sorry ass back to CHUD, it's time for your daily ritual of giving him a nutsack tonguebath. Enjoy!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:04 p.m. CST

    ash-williams

    by ieatgarbage

    a lot of people have bad taste...what's you're point? but then again--a lot of people can get behind something that's good. what's the difference? how does that happen? spiderman 2 did well at the BO. so did the antichrist in Denmark. <p> if it took 300 million dollars to entertain only one person and that one person is me, i don't know. maybe it is worth it. (eh. this argument and the ethics concerning the cost of entertainment is entertaining (in itself) but probably not worth getting into here. how many charter schools can you open with 300 million dollars? in that long run what's better for us? educated children or pandora? i'd say pandora. always. even if the entire village has to starve to build the beautiful church. the church must be built.)

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:05 p.m. CST

    "to war with Avatar" my ass

    by LeFlambeur

    I don't understand what many are bitching about here. I didn't find anything in this article to suggest that Beaks wasn't open to liking the movie. If this fairly ambivalent, review constitutes a 'War on Avatar' or an acrid hatred of the movie, then the hype machine really HAS set the terms of the debate.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:05 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Happyfat73

    I admit - Temple of Doom has not stood the test of time well... but as a cinematic experience at the time, it blew my fucking teenage head right off. I know Avatar will do this for another generation of budding movie geeks.</p> It was only years later that I recognised the near-unbearable camp of Temple of Doom. Maybe Avatar will suffer similarly? I dunno... all I know is that I am still buzzing from it nearly 24 hrs later and can't wait to revisit it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:06 p.m. CST

    ...TITANIC gave us Kate Winslet's plump young breasts...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...let us all take a moment to reflect...and show the proper respect.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:06 p.m. CST

    I'd like to see James Cameron drown in a lake

    by Castlemonster

    of his own catatonic failure-drool. Obviously that's not going to happen, judging for the chum-for-brains you see around here.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Mega Shark vs. Giant Octopus > Avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    zing!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:06 p.m. CST

    Can't argue that some of them should have ...

    by Jaka

    ...less control. Or that Lucas is one of them. I totally agree with you there. And for sure there are many tales of editors walking out on jobs because the director or studio wouldn't stay the hell away from something they know nothing about. And you're correct, to the best of my knowledge there are only a few who actually edit themselves. Rodriquez basically makes films by himself. Usually it's very collaborative. <br><br> And my apologies to all for responding to the trolls. Having a REAL review to discuss got me kind of wound up there for a minute.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:07 p.m. CST

    refute and ash

    by melthebloody

    Yes! we get it. You think it'll suck. Jesus-fucking-Christ!! Trolls the lot of you! Who gives a shit!!! People are going to like it, some are going to hate it, and others, like yourselves, are just going to piss and moan for the fuck of it. I don't have an agenda, like the both of you, on whether this movie tanks or not: i just want to be swept away for a couple of hours and forget about how life is shit right now. It must be nice that the only thing consuming and agonizing every hour of every day in your lives is whether people like this movie. fuck

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:08 p.m. CST

    Man I love Kate Winslet...

    by Jaka

    ...but I much prefer her thick thighs and plump ass.... let me reflect for a moment....<br><br>I asked about Finding Neverland in one of Beaks threads and nobody responded. Johnny Depp and Kate, I expected more people to have seen it. If you haven't, give it a try. I love it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:08 p.m. CST

    ...Jaka, cheers...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...I think I'm off to bed.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:10 p.m. CST

    Flickapoo...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...while as a female I can appreciate your appreciation of the female form... can I just say, dude...<P>you are one horny mo-fo. Seriously, you have a comment like this in almost EVERY tb. <P>It's kind of hot.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:10 p.m. CST

    you're right ash

    by ieatgarbage

    i have no idea what pretentious means. <p> i do however tuck my dick between my legs and stand in front of the mirror and image what it would be like if people actually took the film "The Cell" seriously. PS--you don't know film unto you've seen Universal Soldier 2. <p> i just dont understand your motivation for your churl and vitriol here. <p> I love children.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:11 p.m. CST

    we dont think it will suck

    by Ash_Williams

    it does suck

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:12 p.m. CST

    ieatgarbage, lol

    by Ash_Williams

    for real. that was hilarious!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:13 p.m. CST

    ieatgarbage, and thanks

    by Ash_Williams

    i hadnt thought of that. the cell = avatar. all style. no substance

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:13 p.m. CST

    imagine until

    by ieatgarbage

    a few other errors. <p> and when i said i like children. i meant i like the dark. i like the darkness. and i like sitting in the darkness with other people. watching the same images. i like being in the dark with other people knowing that they're seeing what i'm seeing and thinking more or less what i'm thinking. it's like we're all inside of mother. together. and i like the dark.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:15 p.m. CST

    ...oh, and I will take my argument further...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...I generally think restrictions are good for art. <P>An easy example once again is the STAR WARS prequels. Lucas had the financial power and the technology to do quite literally anything he wanted...anything he wanted...well, the results speak for themselves. <P>In the original STAR WARS he was spray painting fucking tennis shoes for Stormtroopers...with infinitely better results.<P>Boundaries make you push. Friction is good.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Ugh trolls...

    by Happyfat73

    Probably shouldn't feed them and give them the attention they crave. They fully deserve the negativity they are cultivating in their own lives.</p> Seriously... I have never seen a true film lover revel in something being bad, especially when that thing is actually very, very good.</p> Then again, turkeys like Ash Williams and refutethehype haven't even seen the film, so it's not like anyone takes their impotent negativity seriously anyway.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:15 p.m. CST

    AVATAR the next Star Wars. FACT

    by melthebloody

    AVATAR IS GOING TO CURE CANCER. FACT. AVATAR IS GOING TO SOLVE THE HEALTH CARE ISSU. FACT.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Bryan Singer just signed to Direct X-Men first class!

    by Ganymede3001

    Yeah bitches. Down with DC!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:16 p.m. CST

    Jaka, I saw Neverland

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...liked it way more than I expected to, and I went in expecting to like it. Johnny Depp is yummy in a totally freaky way, though, so it adds to my enjoyment of any of his films... so I'm biased.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:17 p.m. CST

    The term "Game Changer" is such an ambiguous term

    by PresidentLeprechaun

    and ultimately subjective, so we have camps saying that it is one, and others saying that it isn't one. What criteria makes one a game changer? I don't think anyone was expecting Avatar to be a game changer in terms of story. However, I assumed that it changed the game in terms of the realness in terms of the FX, the visceral immersion and feeling of the 3d, the new tech that Cameron invented to manifest visual worlds from the imagination. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't judge it yet, but I'm hoping that I will experience a whirlwind of adventure, even if the story is a bit familiar. (and what's wrong with that anyway?)

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:17 p.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams....

    by theKRELL

    Yeah, it sucks about as much as when you Felch your cat's sphincter! Wrong type of pussy Ash, but to each his own. Bon Appétit!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:18 p.m. CST

    ...ScaryWaitress, I'm just thinking of posterity...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...(yours, lily white). It's important to immortalize these things before it's too late.<P>Time waits for no man...or woman.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Truer words have never been spoken

    by melthebloody

    ...Happyfat73. Im going to take the opposite approach, and just praise the shit out of Avatar. hahaha haven't seen it yet, but neither have these shit-talking trolls. AVATAR!!!!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Oh, and TallBoy...

    by ScaryWaitress

    I just saw your bullSHIT comment about how... wait, I nees to cut&paste it... <P>"Visual medium, not just 'bitch about how the dialogue is tedious medium'<P>Last time I checked, silent films were a bit out of fashion, toots. If the dialogue blows, that's a problem.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:19 p.m. CST

    Mel

    by RefutetheHype

    It's not like I'm trying to fuck with you. It's just that I've been told by so many people why what this movie is is the best the best that can ever be will be. And that's just bullshit. And I'm letting JC know it with every post.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Devin Farci on CHUD gives 6.5 out of 10—

    by blakindigo

    —he's honest and admits his bias going toward the end regarding his dislike of the design. He compares it to Jackson's "King Kong".<br><br>I agree that those that are predisposed not to like the film simply won't. But, Farci did give it an honest review so his 'hate' for this movie or FOX or James Cameron isn't part of his review.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by Happyfat73

    Terminator 2 had some shitty dialogue... so did Star Wars... So did Lord of the Rings. Those films kicked all kinds of arse. So does Avatar.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST

    Cameron is on Conan now- Geez, he got fat

    by ZombieHeathLedger

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:22 p.m. CST

    i revel in something bad

    by Ash_Williams

    i like the movie "show girls"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:22 p.m. CST

    flickapoo

    by ieatgarbage

    you're exactly right! it's called form. as frost said. writing free verse is like playing tennis without a net. <p> be it financial or formal, constraints are good.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:23 p.m. CST

    hey ash

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    you seem pretty knowledgeable about the whole film, what time did you actually see it at? coz i'd love to hear some of your insightful and well versed opinions on it. i mean only a fucking moron can pass judgment on something without actually having seen it first, and we both know you're certainly not a fucking moron, don't we?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:23 p.m. CST

    Someone

    by RefutetheHype

    needs to do an AVATAR/SHOWGIRLS mashup like fucking NOW. "I'm a dancer!"

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:24 p.m. CST

    ..."tennis without a net". I like that.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:25 p.m. CST

    Finding Neverland and posterity

    by Jaka

    I also liked it MUCH more than expected, Scary. And I knew very little about it going in. Liked it so much I purchased it, and it's not really my usual sort of purchase. Funny thing about it the yummability of Depp and Kate regarding this film, they're both buttoned up in Victorian garb through the entire movie. No nekkidnes or even sex, that I can remember. I mean, I think Kate is in a full-length night dress at one point, but she ain't bein' sexy by then. Anyway, really great movie that move, supposed, film loving geeks should take a chance on.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:25 p.m. CST

    HAPPYFAT, you are such a twatwaffle.

    by ScaryWaitress

    Seriously. This whining about "you haven't seen it so you don't get to say anything" is so fucking tired. It's not even an argument. <P>No one is REVELING in Avatar being bad. We are discussing why, when Cameron (and Lucas) had less money, and less technology, they made BETTER FILMS. If you loved Avatar with every fiber in your being (which is obvious, we get it) then FINE. You're entitled. <P>Some of us would love to see Cameron, with all his talent and vision, create something less eye-fucking and more REAL. The problems I have with him as a filmmaker over the last however-long-it's-been-since-Titanic will not be changed by Avatar. THAT is what we are discussing. <P>If you aren't equipped, mentally, to realize that, then crochetmeafuckingclue.com is that way ------>

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:25 p.m. CST

    ...SHOWGIRLS knows what it is. There's no shame in that.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:25 p.m. CST

    agree with Happy

    by melthebloody

    There are some classics with some horrible dialouge. There's something about people really digging this movie that is rubbing the trolls the wrong way. why? Let us have our cake, while you can enjoy whatever it is that you guys are looking forward too. Refute, i get what you';re saying, but it seems like you're really looking to fuck with people just to fuck with them. I shouldn't it let it bug me, but hotdamn, some of the irresponsible shit being said just irritates the fuck out of me!!! oh well....

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST

    Pandora? I say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit.

    by detinue

    It's the only way to be sure.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST

    Oh noes! Someone who hasn't seen Avatar

    by Castlemonster

    but loves it! That hurts my feelings!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:27 p.m. CST

    If Devin gives it a 6.5...

    by Jaka

    (And I will NEVER go to that site to actually read his review)...then it's probably more like a 7.5 or an 8. It's kind of like the Rotten Tomatoes rating, which is actually pretty high. Since all you have is the thumbs up/thumbs down - I'll take it with a grain of salt. Walkin' the middle line.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:28 p.m. CST

    Mmmm, ShowGirls...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...mmm, Gina Gershon...<P>Sorry, did I say that out loud?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:28 p.m. CST

    The Thing Is

    by RefutetheHype

    James Cameron is falling for the trap of thinking big budget special effects replace story. We need STORY!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:29 p.m. CST

    lol, and kinda turned on, @ "twatwaffle"

    by Jaka

    And it's nothing personal happy. I just love it when women say twat, pussy and cunt. It's how I'm wired.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:29 p.m. CST

    ...detinue, funny...very funny.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:29 p.m. CST

    Scary

    by melthebloody

    You have to admit, there are some people on these boards who ARENT discussing film in an intelligent manner; some are just spewing the same nonsensical rethoric AGAINST the people who are looking forward to the movie. We are ALL entitled to our opinions, but there's a difference between that and condemning the people who are excited for a film that they aren't. Hate all you want, but don't make your (negative) opinion law...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Man the typos are flowin' tonight...

    by Jaka

    ...but y'all get what I'm sayin'.... right? *cough*

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:31 p.m. CST

    'your not in kansas anymore'

    by Ash_Williams

    is the new 'nuke the fridge'.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by RefutetheHype

    Oh, I've been giving you hell lately, and I just got a raise at work, so I'm feeling generous. Here you go, sweetie - enjoy it while it lasts. So here: twat, cunt, muffin, kitty, pussy pussy PUSSSSSSYYYYY. Feel good? That's my good deed for the day.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST

    "Avatar"= absolutely an effects game changer

    by blakindigo

    Story? We've seen it before. Dialogue? Mixed. It has workman-like dialogue and a few clunkers (mostly in the first act). Performances? Solid (Worthington's accent does vary. It didn't bother me—so does mine). Action? Extremely well done. Effects? A massive step forward. Extraordinary work.<br><br>I'm with the group consensus that it's a good, not a great movie. Enjoyable and entertaining. Definitely worth seeing on the big screen, but not in the class of say "Children of Men".<br><br> It feels closer to something like "Minority Report" where your dazzled by technique but not completely convinced of the themes presented to you.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:33 p.m. CST

    ...I think "charging the bear" is the new...

    by FlickaPoo

    ..."jumped the shark".

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:33 p.m. CST

    natiri navi vs elizebeth berkeley in a dance off

    by Ash_Williams

    gina gershon gets a lap dance from natiri.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST

    Refute....what are you talking about?!

    by Jaka

    This talkback is LITERALLY the first notice I've ever taken of you in my ten years at AICN. And my opinion of what you've had to say here in total would equal one giant, whatever! Like I said, go watch about 1000 films or so, then get back to me. Also, I think I said WOMEN... are you a woman? Geeez. Sane much?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST

    Twatwaffles

    by Castlemonster

    smothered in syrup!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST

    trust me jaka

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    it's fucking beautifully realised and shot. Whomever tossed around the term "game-changer" in relation to the visual FX were not bull-shitting, the CGI really is incredible. *MINOR SPOILER* The scene of Quaritch kicking a pressure door through and storming out into a poisonous atmosphere with no breather on, guns blazing is fucking cooler than anything I've seen in a long time.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:35 p.m. CST

    JackAsh...

    by theKRELL

    You're just too used to hearing people tell you..."You're not in Ken's Ass anymore!<P>Zing!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:36 p.m. CST

    RefuteTheHype...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...if you're not a chick, Jthat's just mean. <P>If you are, it's just nasty... in the nicest possibly way, of course...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:38 p.m. CST

    It's ok

    by RefutetheHype

    I am a woman. I saw him say it made him excited and I felt like, hey, I got a raise and I'm enjoying a bloody mary, so why not?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Guess

    by RefutetheHype

    that's what happens when I try to do a good deed.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Well said, Beaks!

    by Chesterfield Slacks

    'If tentpole films continue to embrace formula this rigorously, perhaps "game ender" is more apt.' It's about fucking time! When will movies grow up? It's like each the decade of the 20th century brought enormous changes to the film biz. Briefly, the end of the 70's brought Star Wars, etc, and the summer blockbuster, then we got the CG epics (Jurassic Park, etc). Now we're at the point where anything at all that we can visualize can be done, with the vision and the right budget. We're still wading neck deep in re-treaded spectacle without substance; Pimping and marketing of the CG where the 'making-of' is brutally detailed and more entertaining than the end product. So why not really do something groundbreaking? Who's going to be our next Kubrick (sorry, Cameron may be a brilliant craftsman but he's not a game-changer) someone so brilliant that they can single handedly re-invent a genre. Sadly, no one will risk money these days on creative 'monsters'.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:39 p.m. CST

    Scarywaitress

    by Happyfat73

    Humblest apologies for suggesting that actual knowledge and experience of the thing you are talking about is relevant. I mean... I always ask travel advice from people who've only seen postcards... don't you? Moron!</p> You speak in absolutes - as if you've seen it - when you fucking haven't. So, that's right, your opinion on it is worthless. Less than worthless - because it is 100% preconceived bias and 0% actual knowledge.</p> And even after you've seen it, your confirmation bias (look it up) means you won't like it anyway. My opinion is based on seeing it with measured expectations and having my expectations shattered.</p> I do like Twatwaffle though. Enjoy your hate.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:40 p.m. CST

    mel, of course I get that...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...but it seems like the skeptics (who, frankly, have reason to be skeptical) are being lumped in with the haters, which is not cool. SOME OF US do not, and have not, worshipped at the shrine of Cameron for lo these many years, so were immune to hype when it was first spun... but, I guess, 'nuff said, really.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:43 p.m. CST

    ...RefutetheHype, that's very decent of you then...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...Jaka was wrong to be dismissive of your gesture....

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:43 p.m. CST

    FATHAPPY, prove my point a bit MORE why don't you...

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...you are a child, incapable of rational thought and dialogue. Revelest, thou, in thy wonderment at the feet of Cameron, and bother us no more. You hast all the ability to think critically and objectively of yea, the lowly eggplant, which thou dost so resemble in thy countenance.<P>And, I say again... babycenter is that way you idiot -------->

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:45 p.m. CST

    Refute and argos....

    by Jaka

    argos, cool. Very glad to hear it. I'ma put your kind words on THAT side of the line and keep walking the middle until Sunday. Unfortunately I think that's the first chance I'll have to see it.<br><br>Refute, I would NEVER have guessed you were a woman. NOT. EVER. .....are you cute? Never mind, it's teh internets. Of course your cute. Even if you weigh 600 pounds and have puss oozing open sores over 9/10 of your body you'd say you were cute. Regardless, I still have no recollection of you prior to your trolling in this thread.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:46 p.m. CST

    avatar is potentially a game ender

    by Ash_Williams

    this could scare movie studios away from making big budget genre movies. time for cameron to enter the old folks home. and please, please dont tell me that this is going to be a fucking trilogy! cameron could show at least a shred of originality and dignity

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST

    Oh, thanks for the effort, though...

    by Jaka

    ...I do appreciate that, at least. Wouldn't want to seem ungrateful.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST

    ...every one of you is a hot chick in my head.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST

    You almost had me, Beaks...

    by BiggusDickus

    There I was, thinking I read a thorough, insightful, hype-free review I could trust and then you dropped the line "...his masterpiece, The Abyss" into the proceedings.<p>WHOOSH! What was that? That was your credibility flying out of the window, old son.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST

    OMG flick.

    by ScaryWaitress

    Seriously, OMG.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST

    This is no Bring It On!

    by dalemurphy36

    I'll see the movie tomorrow night but this is the kind of review that would've been helpful before that fiasco Indy IV... It's too bad these characters don't have the story arc that "Big Red" had in Bring It On! Now, that was a great movie, right Beaks?

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST

    JackAsh...

    by theKRELL

    The 'game ender' was when you stuck all the Hotels from your Monopoly game up your Ass!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST

    No, SERIOUSLY, OMG

    by Jaka

    Because you're confusing my penis. Knock it off!

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:51 p.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress=skeptic (which is completely legitimate)

    by blakindigo

    She shouldn't be lumped in with the 'haters'. Seriously, that's just stupid.<br><br>The point is that visually this is Cameron at his best. That's the key; the movie is a sumptuous visual experience. That actually carries a bit more weight because of the nature of 3D—he uses the technology to effectively tell the story (and there are some subtle storytelling devices using 3D to give a sense of atmosphere and spatial relationships. In that respect it IS "game changing".) But, is it a story that's worth telling? If you're biased against the 'softness' of the themes and the essentially 2 dimensional characters then that will be a problem for you. But, that doesn't make it a 'bad' film. I don't exactly see depth in James Bond or say, Neo in the first "Matrix" movie. So, understanding what the film emphasizes (and why) is the key to enjoying it.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:52 p.m. CST

    I'm seeing this fucker Sunday...

    by conspiracy

    if for no other reason than to help jack up the price of my Newscorp stock and get a good chuckle at the Smurf Rave scene.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:54 p.m. CST

    TopHat

    by Balcony Fool

    > These are not opinions. <br> > They're facts. Its scary<br> > how some of you quickly <br> > block out reality just to <br> > suit your own predijices.<P> What's even scarier is when someone views their own opinions as "facts." Welcome to fascism, friend.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    jaka

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    not a problem dude. You're right to take every opinion of this film, good or bad, with a pinch of salt, and make up your own mind. It's just a shame a few others around don't have the intelligence to do the same. Just bear in mind, that Cameron never, never said this film was going to change the face of cinema in any way but from a purely visual FX oriented way, and in that respect he's absolutely right. The software, the hardware, and the techniques they've developed will help usher in the era of near photo realistic imagery, in much the same way as Star Wars revolutionized the FX industry back in the day. All these people spouting off about how we were promised some quasi Kubrickian level of cinematic reinterpretation have sadly got the wrong end of the stick. It's pure pulp escapism of the finest kind.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    ...conspiracy, any Smurf Rave scene worth its salt...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...has to have a patented MATRIX nipple twist.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    ROY DISNEY just died, and still no mention?

    by Gungan Slayer

    wake up aicn.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    "Confirmation bias" IS the most apt description —

    by blakindigo

    — and that is what we're dealing with between the 'Cameron haters' and the 'Cameron fetishists'. So both will be proven 'right'.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Although I laughed at the rave line, I don't get...

    by Jaka

    the Smurf thing at all. Smurfs were smaller than mushrooms. Navi are 9 and 10 feet tall. It's just a completely bassackwards comparison. I get way more Fern Gully from the trailers and previews than I do Smurfs. <br><br> No, none of that is REALLY meant to be taken seriously.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST

    Scarywaitress

    by Happyfat73

    That's pretty funny actually... I can't think critically because I enjoyed a film that I've actually seen. </p> Was the story familiar? Yes. Was it well told? Hell yes. </p> Where the characters complex? No. Where their motivations honest? Yes. </p> Was there some corny dialogue? Yes. Did it spoil the film? No more than Fellowship of the Ring was spoiled by "You have my sword... And my axe... etc).</p> Was there a strong and clear narrative through-line that made sense and engaged? Yes.</p> Is the film engaging on an emotional level? For me, it was definitely so. This is a film with a big heart.</p> How were the action sequences? Fucking awesome. Epic. They also had weight because I cared what was happening.</p> How is it technically? The work of a master at the top of his game.</p> Is it flawless? Of course not. But it is a brilliant piece of pulp entertainment which is fun, engaging and has clear themes, that is a completely immersive experience.</p> Feel free to refute what I've said based on the trailers you've seen and the reviews you've read, oh Queen of Critical Thought.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:58 p.m. CST

    ...so, serious question. Is this blue turkey woth seeing in...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...a regular theater? <P> The only 3D is close to two hours away, and 3D in the past has always given me pretty bad eye strain after ten minutes and started to separate after fifteen...

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:59 p.m. CST

    FatHappy...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Again. Dude. GET A FUCKING CLUE.<P>You know what, nevermind. Just forget it. You are too stupid to live.

  • Dec. 16, 2009, 11:59 p.m. CST

    beowolf = avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    same difference

  • Dec. 17, 2009, midnight CST

    Love the comments re "this justifies what I am saying"

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    so do you comment on rottentomatoes with 84% favourable rating, "this doesn't justify what I am saying". Or with an Ebert or Travers reviews etc, bit picky isn't it <p> Or are you someone who would go to a christian fundamentalist website and say, "yep they said the world is only 6,000 years old, that justifies what I am saying". But completely ignore the consensus from scientists throughout the world.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:01 a.m. CST

    One problem noted by reviewers - Jim Cameron writes SHIT dialogu

    by BadWaldosRevenge

    Ho-hum, where's that reliant script doctor William Wisher Jr to the script? Beautiful visuals, I'm sure, but some shitty dialogues? Like Titanic, but worse.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    argos

    by Jaka

    I'm definitely interested in seeing that aspect of the film as a lot of people have been really impressed by it. But I'm just as interested in seeing if the technology Cameron has pioneered here is adapted and used, and to what affect, in the future. THAT is what would really be game changing, regardless of what Avatar itself ends up doing/being. I think that some people are missing that point and other are just pissed off by it. Like the big deal about the supposedly bloated budget for this film. It's already been said, I believe, that Fox is using some of the tech on other films, or plans on doing so. That part of the equation interests me quite a bit. But from that pov you also have to consider that somebody could take Camerons equipment and software and completely trump him creatively. Anyway, babble, babble. I am excited to see what the film LOOKS like. But I do think my expectations of story and dialogue have been lowered a bit by what I've read around teh internets.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Argos...

    by ScaryWaitress

    Every time Cameron makes another advancement in technological capability, he sells another piece of his soul. <P>What he- and most others as well- needs to do is make a movie WITHOUT FUCKING SPECIAL EFFECTS. NONE. ZERO. If he can't make a movie we would want to watch without them (which I suspect is the case) then he's not worthy of slavish devotion from anyone. <P>Except maybe tb'ers like FatHappy.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams=Bucket of Shit

    by theKRELL

    minus the bucket!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi LMMFAO!

    by blakindigo

    That Christian fundamentalist line was a bag full of win.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    WaitressScary

    by Happyfat73

    My humblest apologies again, your majesty. I may not have fancy book smarts like you, but I like to think I deserve life, despite my irredeemable stupidity.</p> I promise not to give any more reasons why I liked Avatar, and will defer all opinions in future to superior intellects, like yourself, who have far greater knowledge of all things filmatic.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:03 a.m. CST

    the funny thing is

    by Ash_Williams

    that i always thought that avatar was made for young girls. but, if there are two girls in this talkback bagging on avatar, then you know its in trouble...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:04 a.m. CST

    FlickaPoo, so glad you mentioned that!

    by Jaka

    The 3D inducing headache thing. It actually sometimes gives me a headache and almost always gives me an EYE ache. So that's part of what I'm interested in checking out. Fortunately for me there's a 3D IMAX ten minutes away. *whistles*

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:04 a.m. CST

    And on that note, I'm out.

    by ScaryWaitress

    'nite all. It is fucking LATE.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:05 a.m. CST

    We aren't talking about a movie with such mixed critical consens

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    If it was Watchmen, I could get it. <p> But then again Star Trek, is probably the best example of the year, for a movie that critically and the wider audience generally at least found favourable if not really enjoyed, but this site would appear as a very mixed response. <p> Can only think its kind of the "nerd rage" thing, i.e. being possesive of a property (in this case Star Trek) and as a result being far more critical of it than anyone else. You see that with parents and their kids they are either far more critical of the kid than anyone else or they are the opposite, blind to its flaws.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:06 a.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi, on RT avatar started at 100%

    by Ash_Williams

    then it dropped to 90% now its around 80%. and dropping. get it?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:06 a.m. CST

    LilyWhiteScaryWaitressAss

    by Jaka

    I can't completely agree with you on that. While it would be nice to see if he COULD do it, it's not exactly his thing. So what I would rather see, personally, is the Empire Strikes Back scenario. Where he still controls the bells and whistles, but allows somebody else to work on the writing and/or directing. Basically just have Cameron be the effects house for his own film, but let others take the lead. But as mentioned, he doesn't really seem the type.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Don't agree. To make a movie without special effects isn't

    by blakindigo

    important. That's too simplistic. Whether the film has effects of not is moot. The requirement is to engage the audience using any tool within the arsenal and keep them engaged. If the filmmaker relies on the tool to the detriment of everything else, then that's a major problem. The only goal is to tell the story well.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:08 a.m. CST

    I'm not a hater

    by RefutetheHype

    What I am is someone who dislikes the raw, untamed arrogance of James Cameron declaring before performance that his movie was the movie to end all movies, the beginning of the end for movies before it, the end of the beginning for all movies after it, the greatest movie of all time, the greatest movie of any time, etc. All without characters, plot, story, etc. You could tell what the story was from the ads, and it wasn't a game-changer. You could tell the acting was shoddy from avatar day and the trailers, and it wasn't a game-changer. It's just raw male cock arrogance and it's something I never forgive.<p><p>Jaka, I'm not hugely cute, but I'm not a slouch either. I'm a heavyset cross between Wanda Sykes and Jennifer Hudson, only prettier than Wanda. :) That's just my opinion. And I'm not quite as heavy as Jennifer. :)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:08 a.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams...

    by theKRELL

    You know those 'girls' that have been 'teabagging' you for years, aren't 'really' girls, but you don't really care anymore.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:08 a.m. CST

    Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength was right

    by Ash_Williams

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:09 a.m. CST

    ...Jaka, headache would be tolerable....

    by FlickaPoo

    ...the last 3D I saw started to separate into this three part rainbow hued overlapping hologram blur after 15 or 20 minutes. Literally unwatchable.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:10 a.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams...

    by theKRELL

    Dropping like your brother's testicles in your mouth!<P>Zing!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Ash Williams you really are retarded

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Its not a word I throw around but you deserve it. <p> Of course it dropped, the consensus was based on a handful of people, hardly a diverse set of opinions. <p> With 94 reviews counted, it actually now looks like a diverse set of reviewers and 84% is far more credible. <p> But you and a couple of other retards, who hate on a movie you haven't even seen talk about it likes ita 20% or something like Transformers 2.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:12 a.m. CST

    Flicka...err, who commented on that

    by Jaka

    Somebody here, I don't think Beaks did so it was probably in a BNAT post, mentioned that the 3D separation problems were mostly gone with Cameron's new tech, but not 100% completely gone. Last 3D I saw was Coraline, a film I was incredibly hyped for as I'm a Neil Gaiman WHORE...uhh... I mean huge fan! It made my head hurt so badly that I left the theater and went back the next weekend to watch it in regularly (non-3D).

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:13 a.m. CST

    ScaryWaitress

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    At no point was I advocating slavish devotion to Cameron. I would never advocate slavish devotion to any filmmaker (I learned that the hard way with Lucas and Spielberg). In fact I have often said it would be great for the big shakers in Hollywood like Cameron and Spielberg to make a very low budget film, and push themselves artistically in ways that they haven't in years. But your argument is still flawed - if a particular filmmaker enjoys and has a passion for genre filmmaking, with all it's codes and conventions (in Cameron's case Fantastic Fiction) then there's absolutely no reason at all why he can't use special effects. That's like saying Tolkien was a shit writer because he preferred fantasy and never wrote navel gazing stories about existentialist investment bankers who like crossword puzzles.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:14 a.m. CST

    really great movie

    by theblackvegtable

    I saw it yesterday i thought it was great. Easily the best movie I've seen in a long time hope it does well so we get more of them

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:15 a.m. CST

    ...yeah, no way I'm driving two hours. Too much...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...pressure to put on any movie.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:15 a.m. CST

    Refute

    by Jaka

    Stay confident baby girl. : ) Never let the words on these screens affect you in the real world. I came down hard because I thought you were talkin' shit. But it's never actually personal. Nothing here is so serious that it becomes personal for me. And on that note.... <br><br> Peas y'alls. I'm out. Been some good conversing on this one tonight. But I have the last 100 pages of a book yelling at me from across the room. Until next time...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:16 a.m. CST

    Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength was right

    by theKRELL

    JackAsh_Williams is a Douche. He even tried to legally change his name to MASSENGALE!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:16 a.m. CST

    ...before I go, two words. AMERICAN GODS.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:17 a.m. CST

    OK Ash

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    since you can't engage me in a meaningful discussion of Avatar's merits, can you at least answer me this - are you really nerd_rage_retard_strength? If you are, then kindly stop referring to yourself in the third person. It's creepy, and it scares the children. And if you're not him - then jesus son, I think you got yourself a little man crush there.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:18 a.m. CST

    My perspective

    by Lothos_Zero

    I will need to wait and see about this movie. However... I tend to judge my movies from 2 perspectives. A critical perspective like beaks and an everyman perspective. My everyman perspective is VERY simple - This film is intended as entertainment, DID IT ENTERTAIN ME? This is much like how I judge my food. If food is tasty and does not poisin me then I do not care WHERE the ingrediants came from. I've also noticed a tendency in hollywood to frown upon things that have been done before. Again using a cooking metaphor If something tastes real good why shouldn't I want to eat more? Maybe I won't want to eat the SAME thing every day, but if I might want to have some Reaally good Lasangna more than once. In this case Cameron is the chef. In the past I have enjoyed what he cooked. So if this is more of what I liked before then I will probably enjoy Avatar.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:18 a.m. CST

    RefutetheHype, I think you're projecting about Cameron's

    by blakindigo

    arrogance. He has continually stated the 'ground breaking' and 'revolutionary' merits of his film in the context of it's visual effects, and it's visual effects only. And, he's right. He DID change the game but, only in that context. You may be right about the 'raw male cock arrogance' in regard to his quotes, but unfortunately (or fortunately if you prefer) he has achieved his boasts. The benchmark HAS been raised but only in the visual sense.<br><br>"Jurassic Park" did the same thing in 1993—and that didn't have the sophisticated depth of say "Come and See," and it didn't need to have that.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Jaka

    by Happyfat73

    1 of the guys I went with started getting a slight 3D headache toward the end. Didn't affect me, though.</p> It took a little while to adjust, visually, at the beginning - partly because I spent the first couple of minutes wowing at the 3D tech. But then, something happened - about 10 minutes in, I completely forgot about googling the 3D tech and just got wrapped up in the story.</p> I believe the immersive 3d world Cameron has created actually helps engagement with the characters and story. He's obviously spent a lot of time figuring out how to use the 3D most effectively.</p> The game-changer hype is probably a bit much, but he's certainly set a benchmark. I honestly think this film will be much imitated, and become a pop culture reference.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Before I go, In response to your two words...

    by Jaka

    If American Gods is not made into a film then their is simply no hope for movies. It's just, like, right there! Ready to go. But then so is Sandman and/or Death, or any story involving The Endless.... or about 3/4 of the short stories in Fragile Things and Smoke and Mirrors... and a better version of Neverwhere, too... lol... never mind...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:21 a.m. CST

    HEADLINE: Haters Stick To Bad Avatar Reviews Like Flies to Shit.

    by Darkplanet

    Because there's so few negative reviews and well...they don't want to eat crow after all that Mommies basement quarterbacking ;)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:22 a.m. CST

    blak

    by RefutetheHype

    I have to say it's telling about my personality that whenever I see your name I see it as Blakin' Dingo and not the more likely Blak Indigo. You ate my baby!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:23 a.m. CST

    Anyway

    by RefutetheHype

    You're right. I think I'm letting my frustration with male domination in the arts get me to hating on Avatar. That and the princess needs a man syndrome I hear it projects.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:28 a.m. CST

    i am him

    by Ash_Williams

    no man crush

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:28 a.m. CST

    Don't you love it...

    by Exterminans

    When people disagree with a review for a film they haven't seen? Its interesting watching people overreact because the reviewers opinion of a movie the reviewer has seen doesn't match their opinion on a movie they haven't seen.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:28 a.m. CST

    RefutetheHype

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    Not to take away from your frustration regarding the male domination of the industry, because like Sci Fi literature, I too welcome the time when more women will get their voices heard - but honestly Neytiri is certainly not the damsel in distress in this. Maybe not Ripley levels of awesome, but still not standing around waiting for a handsome prince.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:29 a.m. CST

    argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_ dreams

    by Ash_Williams

    what would you like to engage about?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:31 a.m. CST

    Please TRY to defend/apologize for the following:

    by Trannyformers_Apologist

    Boring unoriginal cliche story<P> Poor one dimensional characterizations<P>God-awful acting <P>Cringe inducing dialogue that would make George Lucas vomit in disgust <P> and for trying to troll the interwebs with your rabid brainwashed bandwagon fanboism.<P> more after the jump

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:31 a.m. CST

    god damn ash

    by argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_dreams

    don't you feel in the slightest bit ashamed or embarrassed that you spent this entire talkback posting comments about how right your alter ego was? That's like serial killer levels of scary. Way to pitch your tent in crazy land. I actually feel sorry for bringing attention to it now. Jesus man, I'm embarrassed for you!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:32 a.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams was crushed...

    by theKRELL

    when his 'partner' accidentally (Hah) stepped on his nuts!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:32 a.m. CST

    If Cameron spent so much on this...

    by Blood_Bubbles_in_Bathwater

    ... why do the aliens from District 9's modest budget look better?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:32 a.m. CST

    From the Boston Phoenix...

    by ReportAbuse

    "Cameron's new opus invests hundreds of millions in cutting-edge CGI and 3-D processes (not to mention state-of-the-art PR and marketing) for the paradoxical purpose of informing viewers that such unnatural indulgences are bad for us. So much for irony. Now bring on the cool creatures and gizmos and let's blow some shit up. Far from deploring the alienation effect of artifice, Avatar celebrates passive consumption, vicarious thrills, and virtual existence." Now, someone opined that they hate quotations from reviews but I do it selectively if I think the review is well argued and has a point to make that could get some discussion going in the TB. So, have any fans addressed this paradox / contradiction at the heart of Avatar? The review I excerpted in a post above (9:31:42 pm) made a similar point. Has it occurred to anyone that while you're being encouraged to identify with the "rebel" hero, you're actually contributing to support the Corporation? Same review: "What follows should not come as a surprise to anyone who's seen Dances with Wolves, Starship Troopers, Apocalypse Now, Return of the Jedi, District 9, or any of the score or so other movies (including his own...) that Cameron has spliced together for this ersatz epic. As for the eco-twaddle about nature versus technology, that doesn't interfere with your mindless enjoyment of the spectacle as much as do the sour-looking visuals and the blurry 3-D effects. Nevertheless, Avatar might well be, as some have speculated, the future of movies — in this case, the longest, loudest (James Horner with the 3-D equivalent of a soundtrack), most expensive ad for a video game ever made."

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:36 a.m. CST

    oh no, not the Boston Phoenix....

    by melthebloody

    ...who cares the rave review's from Corliss, Ebert, and Travers (name a few); Ive been waiting for the Boston Phoenix review. Sheessssh! Anything else?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:36 a.m. CST

    argos_and_the_laminated_book_of_ dreams

    by theKRELL

    Go back to any AVATAR TB and read his asinine posts, then you'll begin to understand why animals eat their young! He was banned once for being a total Douche, we can only hope...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:37 a.m. CST

    any other, random, totally...

    by melthebloody

    ...insignificant review you want to post, to better benefit YOU'RE desired opinion?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:40 a.m. CST

    Directors cut will have Rape

    by Franky_Four_Fingers

    Then Beaks can get on board, shower it with praise, and put it at the top of his next top 100 list. Beaks' credibility was shredded with his "list" and most people who looked at all 100 picks have now realized that he is poison when it comes to reviewing films.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:41 a.m. CST

    'blutty 3-D effects' quote is bs

    by blakindigo

    The film is 'arguing' about how the technology is deployed rather than a transparent contradiction. That's exactly what Armond White got wrong in his NY Press review.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:41 a.m. CST

    GODDAMNIT!!!

    by cloudrider`

    where are the shouts??? <p> the king of the world has returned! LONG LIVE THE KING!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:41 a.m. CST

    uh, that's 'blurry 3-D effects

    by blakindigo

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:42 a.m. CST

    ReportAbuse

    by Happyfat73

    (It was me who posted about hating people post review quotes in lieu of an actual opinion btw)... but as someone who did love the film, I'll address that point... The thematic dissonance did occur to me right after the film - that this is a half-billion dollar, technologically groundbreaking film that preaches an anti-capitalist return to nature.</p> To be honest, I didn't let the meta-textual thematic discord inform my opinion at all. I thought it was beside the point, because my enjoyment wasn't attached to the environmental/Colonial themes... but just being transported by a good story, well told, with characters I cared about in a visually stunning way. It's not a film of complexity - it takes the simplicity of its story, themes and characters and delivers them in an exceptional fashion.</p> Like I've said earlier - I compare this most closely to LOTR, because that is the emotional engagement it evokes, more than any narrative familiarity with other works.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:44 a.m. CST

    Along with Ursula Le Guin

    by blakindigo

    Would love to see Octavia Butler's books made into great movies.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:46 a.m. CST

    The good and bad reviews have something in common....

    by odo19

    I've read most of them and the common denominator that they all share is the opinion that the story is unoriginal and not very inspiring, the characters are one dimensional and border on parody, and the dialogue is filled with clunkers. It looks like most of the critics are willing to overlook this because they are so impressed with the special effects and use of 3D. Okay, fair enough. The question I have is what happens months from now when Avatar is on DVD and robbed of the aid of 3D? Will it still have the same reputation? I'm not so sure.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:46 a.m. CST

    Nope, I'm not into eating or swallowing babies—lol

    by blakindigo

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:48 a.m. CST

    Are you trying to get people to not see it Beaks?

    by DOGSOUP

    If so then you at least fail on my part. Consider 15 bucks of that opening weekend pull directly from me

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:49 a.m. CST

    blakindigo

    by theKRELL

    theKRELL is honored by your presence. We would like to see...<P>Lucifer's Hammer<P>The Mote in God's Eye<P>Rendezvous with Rama<P>to name a few...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:53 a.m. CST

    Frankie four fingers why did you put...

    by odo19

    quotation marks around list?? I can understand disagreeing with Beaks about his choice of movies. I hate to break it to you though kiddo but as long as Beaks post had movies....with numbers next to them....and then placed them in either descending or ascending order than it's a list by definition. Sorry.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:54 a.m. CST

    It's so cool to hate this movie that geeks are turning into hips

    by DOGSOUP

    Crank up the decemberists, put on your skinny jeans, apply your manscara, and talk about how lame everything that isn't you can be. You fuckers should start printing anti-Avatar t-shirts with little chibi DANCES WITH THUNDERSMURFS logos. You're so fucking cool I shouldn't even be in the same Talkback with you.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:56 a.m. CST

    A V A T A R - Fucking your eyeballs!!!!!!!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    Now across theatres around the globe!!!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:56 a.m. CST

    odo19 has a point --

    by ReportAbuse

    Most reviews agree that the cgi visuals are impressive, even groundbreaking in the 3D version but that everything else is mediocre and unimaginative. The positive reviews are willing to overlook all the other stuff (and also dismiss Cameron's thematic concerns as trivial or irrelevant, which I can't imagine makes him very happy ...?) while the negative reviews actually (gasp) think all those other things should be important too. Maybe that IS the future of movies, who knows ... everything a glorified cgi demo reel. And I think you have a point about how Avatar might go over on blu-ray down the road, whether it will still be as impressive. I think that's part of the "game changing" that's going on, in that home theater has gotten to such high quality with HD, big screens, and blu-ray that cinemas need big 3D IMAX spectacles to really get people out of their houses. That's not bad or good in itself, it's just the reality of the situation, but we've already had better stuff come out for that venue than this.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:56 a.m. CST

    Bill O'Reily Has Brainwashed The Hell Out Of This Reviewer !

    by PTSDPete

    ' Anti-American '. Bwahahahahaha.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:57 a.m. CST

    RENDEZVOUS

    by RefutetheHype

    only if Goldie never says "Goldie Good Gorilla"

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Native Cultures

    by Media Messiah

    Actually, even though this sounds like predictable storytelling, something like that happened to a very young George Washington. He was in a battle with Native Americans who ambushed the military regiment he was with. In the battle, Washingon fought off a great number of these native warriors, and though bullets were fired at him, ones that should have killed him, they missed? In fact, there were holes in his blouse corresponding to vital areas on his body--that should have, again...left fatal wounds, and yet, Washington survived untouched? The tribe's Chieftain saw this, and was stunned. He told his fighters that this man has providence with him (Washington), and told them to cease their attack on Washington.<BR><BR>Many Native American stories, although seemingly myth, have a basis in fact and are not just simple metaphor, the reason why Cameron obviously used such trappings in this film. And though these tales may appear folksy now to a largely uninformed modern era, it does not lessen their integrity or impact on the film narrative, or shouldn't.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1 a.m. CST

    Like I Always Say ...

    by HongKongCavalier

    ... if you can't do it yourself, much less do it better, then a big steaming mug of STFU is my only response to the haters. How the fuck can you be disappointed when there has been absofuckinglutely NOTHING ever made that utilizes the technology to this level? Get stuffed ... with a member of the opposite sex ... a live one

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:02 a.m. CST

    Media

    by RefutetheHype

    Ah, good to know even prehistoric spin can fool you. :) Easy answer: that never happened. But do watch the MASTERS OF HORROR episode THE WASHINGTONIANS. Classic shit. :)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Rendezvous with Rama adaptation would be amazing....

    by odo19

    I remember reading about Fincher doing one with Morgan Freeman years ago when I was at the height of my Arthur C. Clarke mania. Shame it never came together.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:03 a.m. CST

    Maybe some haters will like Avatar after they see it, or at leas

    by CodeName

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Don't worry

    by Castlemonster

    The lefty Cameron cockslobber reviews are due shortly. And O'Reilly is a thoroughly irrelevant imbecile.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    ..or at least closet fans.

    by CodeName

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Ebert

    by RefutetheHype

    dedicated a whole column supporting President Obama saying basically that anyone who criticizes him is wrong. Of course he loved AVATAR.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    theKRELL all good choices.

    by blakindigo

    And the honour is mine.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:05 a.m. CST

    ReportAbuse

    by Happyfat73

    I don't think the non-visual elements are mediocre. I think they are simple. That's an important distinction.</p> I would rather a simple story, well told, than a complex deconstruction of the human condition that is narratively inert.</p> Avatar has a strong narrative drive - it moves forward at a decent pace (for a massive epic) and has surprisingly little fat on its bones. </p> There is nothing that will surprise you with the plot... except maybe how damn engaging it is. And for me, that IS the most important thing, that the film was able to transport me without throwing up roadblocks to enjoyment, like gaping plot holes, bad acting and execrable dialogue... the acting worked for me, and the dialogue may have been clunky in parts, but no more than many other sacred cows in the geek realm - star wars, terminator, Indiana Jones etc.

  • .....what the hell??? The review was making sense 'til that bizarre digression. What's with the sick, misanthropic anti-Americanism?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:08 a.m. CST

    O'Reilly? Irrelevant?

    by blakindigo

    Not quite sure about that. He does give the Right a fair amount of things to promulgate.<br><br>He return to Harlem and get his 'mutha fuckin'' iced tea, imo.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:10 a.m. CST

    Film Freak Central weighs in ...

    by ReportAbuse

    (Apologies in advance for my continuing blasphemies but some of this stuff is just too good) "Avatar finds James Cameron -- still the Cameron of Titanic (or the uncomfortably simpering T2, if we're honest with ourselves) rather than the Cameron of Aliens and The Terminator -- trying his hand at being Kevin Costner: powerful, dim, and only relevant for a tiny window of time he doesn't realize has already closed. The more simple-minded liberal proselytizing he perpetrates like Avatar, the farther away he gets from the B-movie muscularity that indicated his early career. It's a bad thing, believe me, that the first set of movies people think to compare your latest to is first George Lucas' ridiculous prequel trilogy -- then Dances with Wolves." ... "What you should care about is that Cameron has essentially retold the Pocahontas story with giant blue cats subbing for the Powhatan and every single Native American stereotype subbing for taste. (Jar Jar isn't speaking Jamaican! He's an alien!)" ... "Fans of oaters will also be pleased to check off: the presence of a Magua-type character who doesn't like Jake very much because paleface is making eyes at his squaw; the noble chief who takes shrapnel; the witch woman making witchy pronouncements; and the moment when Captain Smith makes good by conquering a savage superstition and henceforth rallies his clan with the horse-cats of the plains and the fierce water-cats of the north. Because this is a Cameron joint, you also have a tough-talking Latina and a bunch of scary-looking mechas; and because this is a late-Cameron joint, there's unfortunately a lot of stuff about how humans destroyed their own planet out of greed, how the misguided men must fight terror with terror by employing some kind of shock and awe, and how naïve an intellectually-limited billionaire filmmaker sounds when trying to force himself into some kind of relevant conversation." ... "The real hell of this 160-minute marathon is that it's shot well, edited brilliantly, paced with heat and wisdom, and yet undone at its end by its reliance on the same old shit -- on stale outrage (Bush Jr. lied to get us into Iraq? Well, gorsh!) and tired paternalism. This exact thing was done better, and with infinitely more scabrous self-awareness, in an episode of Futurama called Where the Buggalo Roam -- a sad thing to say about a film that took ten years and a medium-sized country's GDP to bring to fruition." .... "It isn't much better than the faux-wow of Ferngully, clarifying the truism that cutting-edge F/X, if not married to a thematically-strong, well-written framework, result in ferociously-defended pieces of camp-classic drag bullshit like Tron and Willow." (Ouch, that hurt.)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:12 a.m. CST

    Watching in 2D

    by Happyfat73

    My honest opinion is that if it were viewed in 2D, it would be a really solid 7.5/10 sci-fi epic. The 3D helps the material transcend to a completely immersive experience, and makes it 9/10 as a cinematic event.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Really shows how far America has gone apeshit fascist .

    by PTSDPete

    When a sci-fi story like this is deemed as 'ballsy '. </p> Sacrilegious, even. 'Anti-American'.</p></p> Yo, there's them Jews in Hollywood ! Maybe, you can all try and persecute them, too. </p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:15 a.m. CST

    Some good points in the Film Freak Central review—

    by blakindigo

    —but, the constant whining about the Bush Administration parallels with a fantasy movie relying on standard '50's tropes gets old. Really fucking old. Do any reviewers have some insightful political parallels that could contextualize the movie in relation to '50's SF?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Film Freak Central: CORRRRRRRECT!

    by RefutetheHype

    That's exactly how AVATAR looks to me. Hell, even the sample on youtube had a line about "win(ning) the hearts and minds." Ugh! Somebody smash a hammer into my face, please?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:18 a.m. CST

    Cameron's best movie

    by Kaitain

    ...is The Terminator. <p> Not T2. <p> The original. It is an amazing, and extremely smart, movie. One of the top 5 movies of the 80s IMO. <p> I do still like Aliens, but it hasn't held up nearly as well as Alien.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:21 a.m. CST

    How Ghey Are We

    by RefutetheHype

    when "YOU'RE TERMINATED, FUCKER!" is replaced by "You are not in Kansas any more." Real Men Quote WIZARD OF OZ!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:22 a.m. CST

    He who wields the mightiest sword...

    by Ganymede3001

    Will use it against anyone who possesses an inferior one. That's the history of mankind. Subjugation of those who're technologically inferior, that's the cruel reality of evolution. So whenever it's depicted on screen why does everyone assume that's it's anti-Americanism? Man has operated in this manner since the dawn of time. So this isn't an anti-American movie. It's a movie largely about greed, a cross-cultural sin that knows no bounds

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:22 a.m. CST

    People, the guy's name is REFUTETHEHYPE for chrissake

    by Colt19801980

    You don't find it obvious he's already got an agenda? Ignore him.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:25 a.m. CST

    Aliens - number one for me , still awesone

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    watched it many many times. <p> Terminator would be second though. <p> I should have booked to see Avatar tonight, can't wait till Saturday!!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:28 a.m. CST

    RefutetheHype: I Don't Know About That

    by Media Messiah

    Washington is depicted as being a deity in a paint on the ceiling of the Capitol building, I think it is--this according to Dan Brown? I have seen the painting myself, thanks to Brown's NBC special hosted by Matt Lauer, so it is indeed real. Washington was a Free Mason, and they are heavy into symbolism--and not just for fun and giggles, no...they believe that their devotion to deism is as real as our belief in God, but they wield deism in the way that George Lucas explained the Force, as a creative force without intellect, that one can wield, and become a god by way of practicing such faith.<BR><BR>Also, Washington claimed to have had a vision of America in flames, and seeng the wings of the Eagle, plucked, again symbolism for America in destruction, this...after he did a smoke lodge with...the Native Americans.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:30 a.m. CST

    completely agree Ganymede

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    There woudldn't be too many societies not guilty of this in the last 300 years of history. US is just the most recent example.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:31 a.m. CST

    the film is dreadful

    by slappy jones

    absolutely dreadful. The dialogue is jaw dropping. the story has absolutely no surprises or turns ..nothing. you can predict the entire film from the first five minutes. the action is boring. its the worst film I have seen this year. and I am no hater. I was behind this film and defended it from all the prerelease hate but it is nothing but a glorified video game. its bad beyond belief and I am incredibly disappointed.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah — Bless your heart—

    by blakindigo

    Your delirious insanity makes me all warm and gushy inside. Thank you.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:36 a.m. CST

    This review is bullshit

    by theplant

    Avatar is the best Cameron movie ever made and mr Beaks knows it. He just too busy playing with his T2 toys to notice.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:38 a.m. CST

    I definitely agree one of the flaws with the movie is —

    by blakindigo

    the paternalism charge. Yes. That element is in full effect.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:39 a.m. CST

    It Is An Anti American Movie, And America Deserves It!!!

    by Media Messiah

    I am American, and I really have to say, this country is messed-up!!! We have enough time in the world to attack Tiger Woods for sleeping around, like any of us can count ten men and women on our hands who won't, or haven't done that, still, that is big news, and not affordable Healthcare Insurance...and the political battle over it??? That should show you how very messed-up our country is. Wallstreet is allowed to rip us off daily, while Washington politicians look the other way, or assist those who are stealing from our us and our families, but it is Tiger Woods, a Black man, sleeping around with White women...and a Latina, that is more important to the media, and the public? This is the reason America is going down the tubes!!! Letterman can bang all the women he wants, including employees, which is against the law, but no...not that N*gger! This, while affordable healthcare burns???!!!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:41 a.m. CST

    Haters... You're not going to see it so...

    by snakecharmer

    why do you care so much? The only thing that it could be is you're just looking to get Avatar fans all angry and fighting with you. Seen you guys do it all the time. Got my tickets. 24 hours away.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Plot Overview is NOT a review.

    by TheMarineBiologist

    I said this before with your Quantum of Solace review and I say it again.<p> Beaks, you do not know how to review movies.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:45 a.m. CST

    Would anyone ever want to hang out with Mr Beaks?

    by drturing

    Based on the things he writes, his misanthropic holier than thou pretentious views, and his love of bring it on and films with rape, would anyone here actually want to hang out with this guy? Imagine having him as your wingman. Yeah, exactly.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Hey genius

    by Castlemonster

    Name one time that the government has reduced the price of *anything*. You want to talk about fascism? Federally Mandated Health Insurance. Oh, that sounds like FREEDOM, alright! 40% of the population doesn't even pay fucking taxes. Who is going to pay for their "affordable" health insurance? Is your doctor going to take a 50% pay-cut in gratitude for you supporting this POS, or is he going to go golfing and leave you to the tender mercies of some government clock-puncher? Take a look at some of the other countries who have socialized medicine. You think people in England get to walk in off the streets complaining about chest pains and get to see a doctor the same frikking week? Think again. And putting 50 million more people under Medicaire when it's bankrupt is sheer brilliance. How are we going to do that when we're already billions of dollars in the hole with our new landlords China? CGI?<p>I wish we weren't all about to pay the price for the reckless stupidity of 52%.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:07 a.m. CST

    Slappy is Truthifying

    by RefutetheHype

    I remember him defending AVATAR. His disappointment is legit. Slappy, sorry to hear you had a bad time. But we tried to warn you! There will hopefully be better movies coming up!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:13 a.m. CST

    I'm kinda gay for Titanic

    by MattmanReturns

    I watched it recently and it still worked for me on an emotional level. The imagery is hauntingly beautiful, and I like Jack and Rose even though their dialogue may not be eloquent (however, it does feel real to me). They sound like two kids in love and having fun, rather than the hyperbole spouting Anakin and Padme, who bored me near to death. And c'mon, the scene of him drawing her is one sexy piece of filmmaking.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:18 a.m. CST

    I love "eloquent dialogue" apologists, Mattman!

    by RefutetheHype

    You're right. The dialogue with Jack and Rose, for all people complain about it, is all very real. People tend to talk to each other in platitudes, in phony movie sentimental syrup. It's REAL when people say things like "Hold me like you did that one day!" and "I'll never let go of you!" It mighr seem dumb to maladjusted hipsters, but it's the truth. Real people talk that way and movies emulate it. The big deep crap like in 500 DAYS OF SUMMER is NOT the reality.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:24 a.m. CST

    RefutetheHype

    by MattmanReturns

    Yeah, the scene where Rose tells Jack, "You are so annoying!" but can't stop smiling... that's very real to me. It's obviously not Shakespeare, but there's a goofy awkwardness about it that anyone who has experienced young romance should recognize.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:27 a.m. CST

    But, obviously the dialogue in "Juno" is reality–

    by blakindigo

    —um, no. It's about 'believable dialogue' and it's has to serve the purpose of advancing story, character, plot without seeming forced. "Avatar" has its fair share of tin-ear badness, but it's not movie dialogue at it's worst. It should just be much better.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Beaks, great review

    by MorganLeafy

    Glad to see that someone on AICN has the balls to say that Avatar, for lack of a better word, sucks. Of course it looks nice but he's right: no technology in the world can replace good storytelling.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:29 a.m. CST

    I don't put too much stock on Mr Beak's opinion

    by AsimovLives

    He's the guy who thinks Bring It On is a better movie then The Dark Knight. Say no more!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:31 a.m. CST

    Asimov, good point. Beaks top 100 list was disgusting.

    by MattmanReturns

    And I'm still waiting to see Avatar for myself before I review it... unlike a few people here.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:32 a.m. CST

    Avatar was awesome

    by kwisatzhaderach

    but The Abyss is still Cameron's masterpiece. Beaks is mostly wrong though.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:34 a.m. CST

    Juno dialogue takes place in an alternate universe

    by MattmanReturns

    where everyone is equipped with an endless supply of witty retorts.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:35 a.m. CST

    85% on RT

    by snakecharmer

    Reviews Counted:97 Fresh:82 Rotten:15 Average Rating:7.4/10

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:45 a.m. CST

    MattmanReturns, exactly—

    by blakindigo

    but, did you see "500 Days of Summer"? I'm not sure that it's as 'truthful' as it attempts to be. The dialogue was naturalistic, but somehow it left me…cold. I kind of wanted to punch the dude in the face at the party scene, or at least introduce him to the guys in "The Company of Men" or something. It just made me feel like "Um, really dude?"

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:52 a.m. CST

    Loved it, but Beaks has a point

    by Hamish

    Thing is, with such a visually overwhelming film (in 3D at least), maybe he played it straight to avoid giving his audience more than they could possibly take in?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:58 a.m. CST

    Hail, Mr. Beaks...

    by ratpack223

    ...for telling the truth and not going the path Hrry did with EPII.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:09 a.m. CST

    love how the people on this site use words like "truth" or "fact

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    when its mostly just an opimion. I will try not and go too anti-american, but from a foreigners stand point it does seem "typical american"

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Seen it, not game changer

    by estacado1

    Avatar is the first movie I've watched in 3D. The hype is that it is made to be watched in 3D, and the 3D is not some afterthought tacked onto the movie like some other 3D movies. But being this is my first 3D experience, I'm unable compare Avatar's 3D to other movie's 3D, but from what I've seen, it gives a different experience, but not really essential. I have to admit that 3D does add something to the experience of watching the movie, but what it adds just isn't enough for it to be something that will change how people go watch a movie altogether. <p>But the CG in Avatar really does push the boundaries of what has been done before. What they've really nailed is the facial expressions on virtual characters. That, they got it almost perfect. But as for the human/humanoid body movement, they've got most of it right, but some if it just isn't that good. But one GC element that they made "their's" bio-luminescence. Nobody has done it, and if they have it was never as good as what is seen here. The CG of mechanical things like vehicles isn't the best of what we've seen. Transformers 2 did a way better job of it than Avatar. And the vehicle and mech designs in the movie seems as if James Cameron is stuck in the 90s. They seem dated. <p>In the end, what makes a movie isn't the CG, it's the story. And the story in Avatar isn't a very original story. It is about humans trying to exploit the riches of a foreign planet at the expense of the aliens living there. Sure James Cameron did a great job of fleshing out the environment of Pandora, the alien planet, but as to what takes place on the planet, he could've done better. The dialog is very simplistic, but it's not as Star Wars prequel bad. There's nothing "edgy" to the story. It's very straight forward ,feels like it's a story made for a kids movie. There isn't any plot twists that turn things upside down. <p>So it has beautiful CG, but has a mediocre story. It still can be enjoyable if it has great action. But I'm sad to say that the action does not redeem the movie to enter the "enjoyably fun" category. The final battle is a big one, but I never really got into it. Maybe it's the 3D glasses, maybe it's just the direction, but it didn't work for me. What makes an action scene work is choreography and damage. As for the choreography, there isn't really much opportunity to implement cool choreography in the action scenes as most of the action is organism vs. machine. It's organism vs. orgasm is where choreography can shine. And as for damage, in their effort to keep the movie PG, there is very minimal blood splatter, and the vehicular damage wasn't very dramatic. <p>So there it is. Avatar. A movie that wanted to change things, and change may very well come if enough studios jump on the bandwagon, but if seen as what it is, a movie, it's just mediocre.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:19 a.m. CST

    That is the first proper review I have heard

    by Drsambeckett1984

    All the others say exactly the same things, "oh the story is rubbish and the characters dull but the effects will sway you over". <P> Horseshit! <P> If people out there are really swayed by style over substance, then we are all lost!!! <P> Movies should be about the characters, and the fact the most relatable and warm character in this movie is a blue cat person, and not a human, is a sad fact. <P> At least Beaks isnt dressing this movie up as something else, some of the big reviewers such as Empire said it would be this generations Star Wars!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Saw it last night.

    by Fortunesfool

    Some of what Beaks says is correct. It's a reassuringly familiar narrative and set of characters, but it's all so far ahead of everyone else's game that it's all an utter joy to behold.<p>I actually sat with a silly smile on my face for the whole film and a sense of child-like wonder in my heart.<p>It's not a palm-sweatingly intense as Cameron's other work but it's never less than engaging and entertaining. And some of the stuff is just jaw-dropping. The interactions between the 10ft Na'vi and the humans is mind-boggling.<p>ADD kids will be bored stupid during the second act as characters interact and a story unfolds without shaky-cam, spastic editing or explosive set-pieces every ten minutes, but in a year when JJ Abrams was mentioned in the same sentence as Spielberg - this is a work of genius.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:39 a.m. CST

    I seen this in 2D last night.......

    by masteryoda007

    And it was still fucking amazing. Bravo Jim Cameron I never doubted you big guy. This guys nuerons are firing on all cylinders not bad for a guy pushing the wrong side of 60. Beaks is a toolbag, I wiped my arse with your Top 100 movies of the decade by the way. This movie reminds you why you love going to the cinema in the first place.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:52 a.m. CST

    Offically no use for Beaks. And I used to like they guy. But...

    by JackLucas

    seeing the films that were left off of his top 100 versus the ones he picked. And to pan what I consider easily one of the best films of the year in Avatar, Beaks really needs to take a step back I think and realize that as far as his taste goes... I think he may be broken. Avatar = Slightly flawed character development and clunky dialogue but overall amazing! Will sit proudly with Cameron's other films. Just wish they could have spent a little more time on the creature sound design instead of stealing every animal's vocalization from the dinosaurs of Jurassic Park. Effects wise... no one can touch it.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:10 a.m. CST

    It Is Up To Harry To Use The Line!!!

    by Media Messiah

    "My eyes were raped by this movie, but in a good way!"-Harry<BR><BR>You know that it is coming. The master of reviews, Harry Knowles himself, is readying his greatest masterpiece...a splash of words guaranteed to blow your mind, and you know it is going to be a game changer of a film review!!!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:29 a.m. CST

    I liked the flick.

    by TimMighty

    Saw it yesterday. I dont know whats wrong with u guys but its a decent lil flick about an alien world. I was well entertained.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Ya hear that?

    by Crooooooow

    It's a million fanboys killing themselves because the movie they've been masturbating over SUCKS!!! MUHAHAHAHAAHHAA

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:35 a.m. CST

    Blah Blah Blah from every cunt who HAS NOT seen it

    by quantize

    there's been just as many equally good reviews from respected critics...Ash_Williams and these other douchebag cunts think they're scoring some intellectual victory. They're nothing but low grand knuckle dragging try hards

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:37 a.m. CST

    I was prepared to be disappointed when seeing Avatar today...

    by Wookie_Weed

    Everything I've read and heard and seen made me think Avatar would be a big bloated disappointment, a wasted opportunity. But when I saw it today... I actually loved it. Avatar has flaws, but fuck it, as an experience it is brilliant. Methinks most Avatar haters voted Republican and think the military and corporations are good guys saving our arses from terrorists. There's also an unhealthy amount of tall poppy syndrome, people jumping on the bandwagon to tear Cameron down just because everyone else is. But fuck everyone -- I liked Avatar, even though I didn't think I would, and that's the only review that matters to me!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:38 a.m. CST

    At last

    by jasper Stillwell

    An honest, balanced view on not only Cameron but his film. Cameron's always been a B-movie writer with an A-list director's undestanding of movement and technology. His designs and his vision for this film appear as bascially the sort of thing a 12 year old would deem 'sophisticated'. It's looks like from what I've seen a thrill ride, a damn good one of that I have no doubt, but just a ride. Well done Beaks, this is good work and in years to come you're the one who's not going to look a fool when Avatar is revealed in years to be a lot of FX work nailed onto a really lousy, sentimental plot and the usual threadbare characters.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:51 a.m. CST

    roger ebert liked

    by phoenixmagida5th

    The adventures of rocky and bullwinkleand misqoutes movies all the time in his reviews. Latley he likes shit movies also so tellimg ebert liked it is saying harry loves the mcrib sandwhich

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Cameron just cares that you pay...

    by snakecharmer

    even if you hate on it now or later. Cameron has been great over the years so I'm going. Conan showed a reel of his work before Cameron came on. Freaking great reel. None of you can claim to have his body of work.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:07 a.m. CST

    How To Train Your Dragon trailer in 3D

    by estacado1

    They showed before Avatar, and I have to say, the 3D from the trailer was actually impressive, some of it even more impressive than Avatar's 3D.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:12 a.m. CST

    Item 1:

    by DocPazuzu

    Beaks' top 100 list of the decade invalidated (at least for me) for all time any opinion he might have about anything.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:25 a.m. CST

    Item 2:

    by DocPazuzu

    Why does anybody care what Ebert says? I haven't been excited for a movie the way I'm excited about Avatar for a long time, but it has nothing to do with what that asshat says. I agree with him from time to time, but he'll often astound me with what amounts to views which seem utterly hostile to good cinema. <p> Don't forget that he, along with Siskel, trashed Cameron's Aliens for being "too intense" and for crossing some imaginary line of decency by "putting children in peril". <p> Fuck that tasteless dolt.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:27 a.m. CST

    Item 3:

    by DocPazuzu

    Anyone who calls Avatar and Cameron "anti-Capitalist", "anti-American" or "pro-Taliban" is a shallow, moronic, borderline retarded proto-fascist. <p> If anyone takes umbrage, please feel free to say so and I'll be glad to elaborate.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:29 a.m. CST

    Item 4:

    by DocPazuzu

    Media Messiah. <p> Hahahahaha, gotta love him. His first post in any given talkback will always start out in a somewhat sane fashion, but if someone responds to him, his following posts just get weirder and nuttier. <p> Top entertainment!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:35 a.m. CST

    After watching this movie i thought...

    by DioxholsterReturns

    Doctor Dolittle

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:39 a.m. CST

    My eyeballs walked down AVATAR alley

    by hallmitchell

    And they fought back with mace.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:40 a.m. CST

    This won't get much repeat business

    by hallmitchell

    Once is enough. Star Trek was heaps better. CGI - fantastic in AVATAR - photo realistic CGI. Yet not much of a story. Action is ho hum. Just great visuals.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:41 a.m. CST

    Great review Mr Beaks. Spot on.

    by hallmitchell

    None of this 10/5 rubbish that's been happening in News Ltd newspapers.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:41 a.m. CST

    By the way

    by hallmitchell

    Stay away from the game. Not very good.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:42 a.m. CST

    Star Wars phantom Menace was better than AVATAR

    by DioxholsterReturns

    i know because i watched Star Wars episode 1 a few weeks ago and watched AVATAR yesterday so believe me.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:44 a.m. CST

    James Cameron films in greatness order.

    by hallmitchell

    1. Titanic. 2. Aliens. 3. T2 4. The Terminator. 5. AVATAR 6. The Abyss. 7. True Lies

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:44 a.m. CST

    Any Idiot Can Be Crazy...

    by Media Messiah

    ...just look at my critics, for instance--but it takes someone who is truly brilliant...to be insane (me)!!!-MM<BR><BR>To go to the link below, cut and paste the address in your internet browsers, but remove any space, or spaces, that may appear in the address...before you hit the enter button on your computer keyboards, or you will be misdirected to an error message.<BR><BR> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2tcy6qndy4

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:45 a.m. CST

    AVATAR isnt that great but okay

    by DioxholsterReturns

    no way is it even close to star wars, actually phantom menace is better or at least more exciting. and the 3D is distraction, IMO it disregards the emotions the characters are displaying, the eyes tend to marvel at the depth of the picture instead. i bet if i watched it in 2D i would get into it more on an emotional level that is. but ya it would take more than James Cameron to make me feel sorry for a bunch of tree-huggers. the message of the movie was way in your face so if it werent for the extraordinary use of CGI and motion capture, normally stuff like that would make me wanna puke. and the story; its the most unoriginal and predictable movie i ever seen, i think. i guess here its about the style and JC knows how to do 3D well which isnt easy. its tough for a director to do a 2D picture let alone in 3 dimensions.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:52 a.m. CST

    the battle was cool to see though

    by DioxholsterReturns

    and that actress was so exciting to watch. what i dont understand, why are we the violent race here? those Na'vi; i bet they are much more violent than us, they got no democracy and all depend on religious hooky pookey, just because they are in harmony with nature, doesnt make them not violent.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:57 a.m. CST

    STARGATE will do well in the theaters after this

    by DioxholsterReturns

    people want hope and optimism not some human-bashing. we aint all that bad, in fact. and STARGATE shows that even within the most secret government operations that could have easily gone sinister, is actually good-hearted and does its best to preserve humanity.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6 a.m. CST

    DioxholsterReturns: We Have Nuclear Bombs...

    by Media Messiah

    ...which we threaten each other with daily, and we are destroying our ecology, that is suicidal for a race, the human race, and it is homicidal--Columbine on a global scale, however, the Na'vi are living in harmony with nature, thus, they are living in Eden, virtually Heaven on Earth, because they chose life and love...over destruction and greed, and that is the point of the film. Self preservation begins with being responsible in action.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:01 a.m. CST

    so basically im with Mr. Beaks on this one

    by DioxholsterReturns

    youre not missing much, just eye candy.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:13 a.m. CST

    DioxholsterReturns: Like Beaks, You're Missing The Message

    by Media Messiah

    Don't shit where you eat, and don't shit where other's eat--and other's should do unto you! However, people keep shitting where they shouldn't...metaphorically, hence, destroying what could be something better...than what it is, what we now have, that would be, this world.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:19 a.m. CST

    MM - we dont eat in Pandora

    by DioxholsterReturns

    you talking shit again?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:27 a.m. CST

    We are the Ecology

    by DioxholsterReturns

    thats what you people dont understand. all this is for us. a jacuzzi doesnt enjoy itself. i liked JC's other films like Aliens when the planet looked wretched and creatures looked disgusting because that is sci fi at its best, instead here we get some movie that preaches alot. plus Pandora does not equal Earth, very different--- for one Earth is forever changing and will die one day, Earth doesnt give a shit whether we live or die thats because it doesnt think. those random occurrences found nature are just that-- random.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:33 a.m. CST

    The Na'vi God was selfish

    by DioxholsterReturns

    the thing about cultures like Na'vi is that they dont care about the individual. and just like Native americans, they pretty much fight each other all the time. they would use nukes if they had them.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:36 a.m. CST

    DioxholsterReturns: Pandora...As In Pandora's Box

    by Media Messiah

    James Cameron isn't talking about a far off world, that of Pandora-- the story and Pandora is about us, on this planet--our Earth...in metaphor, from modern society and the metropolis' that fuel it...verses the rain forests, etc., that are victim to the expansion of consumerism--so, yes, it is allegory for the Earth. <BR><BR>Pandora is allegory for us, the human race, opening-up the box of the forbidden...via high technologic advances--and through that technology, and the ensuing greed that accompanies it...and our will to wage war against other human beings, countries, cultures, animals, and the environment that back it, that being the greater machine (society, industry and government), that we, by way of our foolishness, are destroyng ourselves by destroying each other, and our own living conditions in which we use sustain ourselves. The irony of it all? That is the deeper theme hidden within the movie, and is exactly what Cameron is forwarding as the primary message...at its core.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:39 a.m. CST

    Best Avatar review-- well done, Beaks

    by Laserhead

    And MM, those allegories are glaringly obvious, without nuance, and completely ineffective. It's okay. That's all.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:39 a.m. CST

    im all for not harming animals i mean aliens

    by DioxholsterReturns

    i believe in harmony and all that, but this movie is about something else, it basically wants you to have sex with nature. i would be glad to defend the Na'vi from evil and have sex with their women but not betray my own race, who i know are decent and loving in a way no different than the Na'vi. just because we live on money and resources, doesnt mean we are bad.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST

    Ash_Williams

    by just pillow talk

    Army of Darkness, nay, the Evil Dead Series, are holy scriptures. <p>Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:46 a.m. CST

    We Are Not Ecology, We Are A Part Of Ecology...

    by Media Messiah

    ...but, when we become a cancer, which is also a part of ecology...but a bad part of it, thus, we begin to kill the whole of the body whch support us, when our collective hungers grow-out of control, and when we don't properly manage our actions. Therefore, we must exist in a symbiotic relationship with all those, and that, which surrounds us. One life, supports another, but if you kill the host body, that is...our environment, we all die. Don't kill the body, and keep it alive, and nurture it...and it continues to live...and continues to nurture us.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:47 a.m. CST

    total cheese fest for stupid liberals

    by DioxholsterReturns

    more powerful themes can be found elsewhere like Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate, and even Aliens, which also showed corporate greed but also showed marines saving a little girl. as humans we make mistakes, but thats because we always try to be much more. the Na'vi just are contempt with their state of being and forbid change, they should admire us for aspiring to be better in every way.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:48 a.m. CST

    According to Beaks, Bring It On is better than Avatar

    by Arturo

    Avatar is a Masterpiece...End of story....

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:50 a.m. CST

    Laserhead: As You Can See...

    by Media Messiah

    ...some missed the point of the film, and knowing what that point is, can add to their overall view of the film, and thus their filmgoing experience.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:51 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah--- good thing we got other planets to satisfy us

    by DioxholsterReturns

    our presence in earth is temporary. it will die anyway someday by itself. we can nurture earth alright, by placing nanobots everywhere that sustain it and if the sun grows too big we can always move the earth to another galaxy. see, now we are in control.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:53 a.m. CST

    the point of the film isnt what matters idiot

    by DioxholsterReturns

    the delivery stinks, did little to convince any one. a good movie should be about a good story not a good message.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:56 a.m. CST

    Na'vi arent all that

    by DioxholsterReturns

    turns out they are just plugged in to some virtual reality type deal. haha losers. maybe we should free the Na'vi from their evil God-like Planet-like rulers

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:02 a.m. CST

    Saw it yesterday in France

    by Jerome M

    Hi, for once, the french get to see a major release before the rest of the world so I thought I had to contribute to the AICN talkback about Avatar. I understand each of Mr Beaks' points of criticism/disappointment towards Avatar. The only thing I would add is that knowing Cameron and having read most of his screenplays, including scenes that were never shot, the man IS a damn good writer. He's really good when it comes to 'organize' the action scenes in the story. Perfect exemple of growing tension for me is in TheAbyss, when the crane is falling onto the station from the surface. The crew just wait for the crane to crash on them at the bottom of the ocean. And when the crane finally falls a bit further and misses the station, the tension escalates to another level as the crane then falls in a reef and drags the station to the edge. That is so effective! You do have the same sense of effective staging in all the action scenes in Avatar. It all flows very very naturally and easily. However, there may not be much novelty to the action itself. It is very efficient too, but maybe not in a strict cinematographic manner. This movie is a spectacle more than an actual movie with a storyline. Sure Cameron seems to be going through the motions and mimics the DancesWithWolves plot. That should be no surprise for most people who've been awaiting this movie now. But it does not mean the movie is not engaging emotionnally. I was moved in several instances, either because it was sad or simply jaw-droppingly beautiful. The real 'tour de force' is that Cameron is presenting Pandora in a very straightforward way. He is not showing off with his CG effects. Anyway, they're all over the place, so they become very natural very quickly. As far the 'game-changing' potential of the film goes, I think it paves the way for a totally different world of possibilities for filmmakers. But for the time begin, only big budgets can allow that. But you could imagine that in 10 years-time, we will be able to see 60Million USD movies to deliver the same level of realism and believability in their CGI characters. Remember when Jurassic Park and Forrest Gump were released, some people were concerned that this would be the end of flesh-and-blood actors? Well, seeing Avatar, you could imagine that if somebody could sculpt a virtual Humphrey Bogart, with the right imitator to capture the movements, you might see a new release starring the late actor sometime in the near future. What would be the point is a different discussion... Another thing I noted is how Avatar constitutes the perfect synthesis of all of Cameron's filmography. Cameron has always been obsessed with the possibility to project his character/himself in another world/reality. Think about Kyle Resse coming from the future into our world, or Leny Nero dealing first-person-videos, or Bud reaching for the E.T. world at the bottom of the sea, Bill Paxton living the Titanic tragedy through the eyes of old Rose. Or even, Harry Tasker leaving a married life when he is not on a secret mission assignment (or vice-versa in his case) It seems the possibility to project yourself in a different environment or body is a recurrent theme. Another theme present in Avatar is Cameron's obsession with the Man vs. Machine theme. It's very present here but he's added another layer to it in the sense that Cameron shows the symbiosis between the military and their endo-skeleton and opposes the symbiosis of the Na'avis and their environment. If you look at Avatar in the light of Cameron's filmography, you can find a link with EACH of his previous movies, yes, even TRUE LIES for a visual referece during the final battle scene when Sam Worthington's avatar is standing on a flying vessel, reminiscing of Arnold's fight on the Harrier fighter. All in all, Avatar should be praised for what it is: a visual fest with CGI wonders that go far beyond what we've seen so far in terms of photo-realism. The 3D only adds to the reality of the experience. So, yes it is a game-changer in terms of visual experience and execution, but thematically and story-wise, it is a good old fashioned action/adventure movie. Now, who could ask for anything more in these times of non-sense, over-stuffed blockbusters like 2012? Sorry my rave was so long but I thought that having seen Avatar 2 days before most of you AICN readers in the USA, you might like to hear a hopefully objective view.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:03 a.m. CST

    Every time I read a post by Dioxholster...

    by MattmanReturns

    I get dumber.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:05 a.m. CST

    MattmanReturns---- why we share same last name?

    by DioxholsterReturns

    could we be one of the same?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:09 a.m. CST

    this movie is definetely shaping up to be another Star Trek

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    for this site, who will be the Asi of Avatar

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:09 a.m. CST

    Saw it tonight...

    by holden_oz

    ... on the third biggest screen in the world. <P> I disagree with Beaks on this. Yes, the characters aren't the best written... but they're FAR from the worst. <P> Do you complain about how Toht is a cookie cutter villain in Raiders of the Lost Ark? No. He's the bad guy. He wears black. He's awesome. And for a blockbuster movie where you're trying to appeal to both movie aficionados and the people of Walmart... you gotta fall back on stereotypes. <P> Jim did so in Aliens. We loved it then. Why are people complaining now?<P> I loved the shit out of this film, and will definitely recommend it to others.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:10 a.m. CST

    DioxholsterReturns: We Are Not Being Better By...

    by Media Messiah

    ...killing them, the Na'vi...and raping their world, as we are currently doing to our own world, and our own people. You wouldn't like it much if aliens or foreigners such as the Russians or Chinese came here and took over and killed us for our resources, or whatever we treasure as most dear, would you? Yes, what if we were the Na'vi...or in their place? Not so fun and easily excusable anymore, right?<BR><BR>James Cameron is presenting this film as a warning to us, so that we don't destroy ourselves by destroying others and our environment in the name of money and progress. He is saying, "This will be the end result of our culture, our world, if we don't change our ways...and slow our consumptions", for if we kill our planet, which we are well on the way to doing, we may not find a source to save ourselves-- like the planet Pandora, or our rain forests...when they are gone. All James Cameron is telling us is, "Be responsible, and manage your resources properly before they are all gone." Hell, you might get your Unobtainium, but after you exhaust that, then where do you go? Sooner or later, your choices will narrow, or completely dry-up...and then you die. Manage what you have properly, and live much longer, and have something of worth to pass on to your grand kids, etc., instead of leaving them to suffer in nuclear fall-out, or ghettos, or famine.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:13 a.m. CST

    "humans are always trying to be much more"

    by Laserhead

    Uh... not according to any history or current news. Trying to be much more what? If your sentence read "Humans are always trying to ACQUIRE more" then it would have a bit of accuracy. Also, it's 'content', not 'contempt'.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST

    AVATAR wasnt exciting

    by DioxholsterReturns

    Pandora looked fake not visually but spiritually fake, because i dont like show-offs and that planet was like a super-model on the runway saying "look at me, im so hot! you cant have me, hehe."

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:20 a.m. CST

    Avatar is making Pixar up the stakes for our favorite Martian

    by iluvsyfy

    Mark Strong in an interview talks about his upcoming villainy and how Avatar is going to push the envelope for Pixar's John Carter. Here is the link. http://www.collider.com/2009/12/16/mark-stong-on-john-carter-of-mars-kick-ass-and-ridleys-scotts-robin-hood/

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:22 a.m. CST

    Click on the photo of Mark Strong for the interview

    by iluvsyfy

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:30 a.m. CST

    Just go watch it..there is eyeball fuckery GALORE..

    by couP

    You will be shaking your head in amazement throughout the whole movie - equal parts at the corny dialogue and the glorious world he has created

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:31 a.m. CST

    It was actually like the most beautiful, well-written

    by Laserhead

    video game ever.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:48 a.m. CST

    This review confirmed my fears

    by cucumber

    I won't be going now. I might have been able to live with being spoon-fed a message I have heard a thousand times before, in a heavy-handed, sappy manner, but not when the art direction and music is tasteless and the science is the usual nonsense. There is nothing in this movie for me.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Beaks is just mad ...

    by ColonelFatheart

    ... that his eyeballs were raped instead of Monica Bellucci. ... Just fucking with ya, Beaks!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Ya know, I liked DANCES WITH WOLVES, but I fear

    by Jubal_Early

    I fear that it began a legacy in film-making through vessels such as THE LAST SAMURAI (and perhaps AVATAR) that is truly disturbing. I mean, it appears that white people want to be anything but WHITE people. We'd rather play with swords and SAY we're samurai. On the one hand, I know the purpose of the film is to show the understanding, the "you would feel different about this if it was you taking this abuse" kind of moral, but in cases like THE LAST SAMURAI, there was really no need for Cruise's character to get involved whatsoever--I mean, white people had NOTHING to do with the Japanese Empire ending the samurai, so why couldn't the story have been the same minus Tom? I worry that it's because audiences (especially white ones, and I'm white myself) refuse to watch a film that "they" are not in. I worry that the same sort of flimsy motive will be given here. Still, I love Cameron, he's never made a film I didn't like, so I'm optimistic. And yet I can't help but think AVATAR would be a cooler idea if there were NO HUMANS at all.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:13 a.m. CST

    Just go watch it ...

    by masteryoda007

    ...and make your own mind up. It is that simple. I did and I thought that it was great. Sue me

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:16 a.m. CST

    Harry's analysis of Avatar

    by BDuncan

    It'll be interesting reading Harry's own analysis of Avatar in 3D, in terms of what he liked and disliked about it, as both this one by Mr. Beaks and Harry's, will be both read by Jim himself.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:18 a.m. CST

    that would require Harry making an effort

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    think Harry, is a special guest star on this site now

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:20 a.m. CST

    and if Jim has seen Beaks top 100

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    he knows what Beaks is into, so wouldn't be concerned

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:26 a.m. CST

    Cut down the verbiage, Beaks.

    by Mostholy

    You need a machete to hack the the thicket of your reviews most of the time. 1) Strong nouns and verbs instead of endless adjectives and adverbs. 2) Don't use a 10-cent word when a 2-cent word will do.<br /><br /> Take this unwieldy sentence: "The film comes to life periodically, thanks to Zoe Saldana's sinuous and soulful portrayal of Neytiri (and a number of vertiginous flights through the verdant expanses of Pandora), but the story is so painfully predictable - and, sad to say, corny - that one spends most of their time ticking off the seconds until the big final battle - which is impressive, but not nearly as rousing as it ought to be.</em>" Sinuous-soulful-vertiginous-verdant-periodically-painfully, all in one sentence. Good God man, edit it down.<br /><br /> You know who could write? Alexandra DuPont, at least until she start ceding half her review to her Benetton crew of multi-culti friends, like the Reaganite douchebag throwing around bad Cold War history in her WATCHMEN review. Still, I wish she posted here more often.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Edit.

    by Mostholy

    hack through* the -- Hmm, maybe that's Beaks' problem. Maybe the posting mechanism here has no edit function either.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:30 a.m. CST

    I saw an interview yesterday with

    by Series7

    Cameron/Jackson/Baby Reitman/Kathryn/Lee Daniels. And everytime Reitman spoke Cameron was just like, I outta fucking smack this little bitch why the fuck is he here?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:30 a.m. CST

    masteryoda007

    by rogueleader66

    Thank you, well said. People need to stop being fucking sheep and counting on the opinions of others. If the movie interests you in any way GO SEE IT. Fuck the reviews, fuck what other people say, fuck idiots like RefuteTheHype and just go see the fucking movie. God I am so sick of people saying shit like "Well after reading that review I am not gonna go see it now" fucking mindless automatons.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:30 a.m. CST

    This movie sounds about as deep

    by Series7

    As Up In The Air as well.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:31 a.m. CST

    masteryoda007

    by just pillow talk

    Can I have your attorney's address?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:33 a.m. CST

    Mmmmm....Avatar snark....

    by MJohnson

    Enjoyable.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Spoiler free review from Dubai

    by ropacom

    Avatar! Situated right next to the iconic Burj Al Arab (the self designated unique seven star hotel that resembles a sail); shimmering light beams reflecting off the ocean and glitzed up Dubai Film Premiere cinema walls, celebrities and red carpet. It would have been easy to get caught up in the hype and hoop-la and I doubt I've avoided that. Cutting right to it : Avatar is not as good as I hoped, but better than I expected. Even trying (and failing) to keep a lid on my internal bubbling hype machine my hopes were high sky high in fact. Nothing REAL can ever match that geeky unbound imagination which is of course more of an exited feeling/anticipation than actually constructing the whole plot/action sequences page by page in your mind. So how could it? The story is, as we all know, old as time although timeless would be a valid and nicer viewpoint. Characters are good or bad - there is no grey area, no post modern ironic anti-hero. This is an old-school epic on a cutting edge level of filmmaking hitherto unseen. The acting from the leads is competent to very good. The emotions from the Naavi are clear and you will forget they are CGI. They are exceptional. Unfortunately most of the acting of supporting human cast is average at best. The dialogue is clunky, sometimes so exposition heavy its childlike, and full of military cliches that sounded fresh in Aliens but have been copied so much they just sound tired. (Id have loved to see the standard gruff military commander played with the same level of whimsy and underlying menace as the Nazi commander in Tarantinos Inglorious Basterds that would have really added some substance here) For adrenaline-seeking ADD affected action junkies the pace for the first few hours will be mostly on the slow side. BUT The special effects and cinematography are absolutely and undeniably STUNNING. You have never seen an imaginative world portrayed like this on film. I saw it in 3D and would guess this is really the only way to see it but my interest was held throughout. Im not talking about heavy special effects set pieces here Ill get to them in a minute I mean continuously, almost every frame, there is something to delight the eye, in a subtle totally enveloping way. It oozes atmosphere. My words will not do it justice. You have to see this. There is awesome beauty in this. Awesome f*cking beauty. Twee-predictable story and minimal dialogue aside there is huge heart in this film. The levels of detail, care and attention lavished on this beast shows it is indeed a labour of love and not just a paint by numbers Hollywood carbon copy made for a quick cash grab. If one definition of art is the transference of passion this is clearly a modern masterpiece. And the set pieces, the battles when they come the scale, and depth well, they don't f*ck about. They are expertly done. The subtle effects that have been present throughout mean your eyes and mind are fully accepting the characters, the vehicles, the creatures as real entities. You take in the monstrous speed and carnage without looking for the join, the wizard behind the curtain. You are simply experiencing it. Unlike the majority of set pieces these days there is none of the shaking camera , blurry special effects where you may be slightly awed but you haven't got a f*cking clue what is going on. The battle and fight scenes are clearly choreographed and I f*cking loved them. I'm looking forwards to watching it again in a few weeks, when the hype has died down, and take it all in with clear sober eyes but right now the best thing of all is just how much this film has pushed the envelope of what is possible for a director to visualize and the possibilities of what will come next.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:45 a.m. CST

    Abyss is no Masterpiece

    by EliteStance

    Well, if the reviewer thinks Abyss in Cameron's masterpiece then I guess I can't trust his view on Avatar too much. That was probably Cameron's weakest film ever.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:49 a.m. CST

    HAHAHAHA

    by RefutetheHype

    I love these reviews. It's PHANTOM MENACE all over again. This makes every positive review by every critic reveal how many critics are that one guy who tags along with the cool crowd and insists he liked the movie just because his need for socialization is about equal with his need to worship nerdcore. "It wasn't THAT bad, guys!"

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:50 a.m. CST

    Ash_Williams is NOT related to me!

    by Sonny_Williams

    Just to make that clear. Someone who spends literally hours on a TB just to vent their hatred of something over and over and over and over and over... it's no different than a crazy guy standing on a streetcorner screaming at the world- it's just pathetic. You know, haters, we heard you the first time. By the 100th time we just want you to go the fuck away!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Mr. Rapes...

    by vicious_bastard

    is eagerly awaiting the 3-D remake of Irreversible.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:58 a.m. CST

    So it's the Empire versus the Ewoks?

    by cookylamoo

    Got to throw in the double tree trunk Robot smash, then.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:59 a.m. CST

    Report: Only Men Like AVATAR

    by RefutetheHype

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i5a83a539b5b67442aacf1633a5f17ce7

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9 a.m. CST

    and

    by RefutetheHype

    we all know men are the driving force for repeat viewing at the box office. Actually, that's the opposite of the truth. WOW, this is beginning to fall apart and all the apologists know it. Ash Williams/et al, we won. It was a tough road, but we won. And AVATAR is destined for total meltdown in 3,2,1.......

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Refute

    by rogueleader66

    I know I am wasting my time saying anything to you but why don't you just go away. It's people like you that give movie geeks a bad name. So full of hatred and negativity, why? It's a fucking movie and you are on some kind of holy crusade to try to prove to people how terrible it is. Why? Did Jim Cameron give you up for adoption? Did you send him what you thought was an awesome screenplay and he threw it back in your face? Did you even see the movie? You realize your words here are a total waste, no one is listening to your bullshit (for the most part, I am sure there are some sheep buying into your BS). So why bother with it? So sad to see someone so full of hate, and over a fucking movie, at the end of the day you must realize that you are wasting so much of your time spewing hatred over a fucking movie. Your life must be truly empty. So sad.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:05 a.m. CST

    "It's a tough road but we won"

    by rogueleader66

    WTF? Who are "we"? There are not even any box office numbers yet and you are already declaring Avatar a failure. You must have inside info huh? What did you win anyways? You really are a truly sad individual. Everyone should pity you instead of getting mad over your nonsensical hate filled rants.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST

    I think Refute the Hype is Joe Lieberman.

    by Mostholy

    The man does enjoy a good buzzkill.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Even if the movie does indeed fail....

    by rogueleader66

    Why will you get some great satisfaction out of that? Will you profit financially from its failure? Or is it that your life is so devoid of any meaning and this is how you find happiness? Wow it is rare to come across someone as empy and vapid as you, and thank god there are not very many of you.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST

    empty...not empy...my bad

    by rogueleader66

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Rogue

    by RefutetheHype

    If that's true, how sad does it make you for replying? Anyway, enjoy the failure of AVATAR, everybody! *waving at RogueLeader66* Point is, we were right. The hype was refuted!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Aaaaand I feel no problem disregarding Beaks' opinion...

    by FarSky

    ...because he called THE ABYSS Cameron's masterpiece. To me, the weakest of Cameron's films, by far, and certainly my least favorite. So, going on the idea that his taste is inverted from mine, AVATAR should be fantastic.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:25 a.m. CST

    rogueleader66

    by Series7

    This site lives off of hate. Its some blob monster that lives in some mom's basement. Just throbbing.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:28 a.m. CST

    Everyone needs to shut the fuck up...

    by Fortunesfool

    until they've actually seen this. Jurassic Park had crap dialogue and no one gave a shit. The cinema experience was all encompassing. Like that movie, you will leave this stunned, excited and amazed by what you just experienced. Don't just jump on someones middling review and go 'Ha Ha'. For every slightly clunky line of exposition, there's a Cameron classic just around the corner and it's certainly preferable to any of the moronic, cheap gag laden twaddle that Kurtzman and orci churn out. Go and see it. Then come and talk about.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST

    ...AVATAR is the anit-MATRIX. You plug-in and escape...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...into a lush, primal, and meaningful existence...leaving a damaged body and gray industrial corridors behind...<P>Please discuss.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST

    I think AICN was hacked

    by SithMenace

    seriously. Every page I click on McAfee goes crazy saying it's quarantining Trojans.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST

    yeah sith my browser has liked this site much today

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:40 a.m. CST

    LOL Refute

    by rogueleader66

    Typical response, just what I expected from someone like you, I am the sad one for replying. Yet I am not the one on here spreading hate over a movie, banning together with strangers and getting a sense of satisfaction over something meaningless. <P>You still have not said what you have "won" and why it is so important to you that this movie fails. Once again, have you seen it? You seem to know everything about it. Oh and guess what? This movie's failure or success means nothing to me. Zero. It will not change my life. It will not put money in my pocket. It's a movie, that's all. I will see it and if I like it , great, if I don't, doesn't matter. It's a movie. It won't change my life in any imaginable way. It sure seems to have had an impact on your life though. As I have already stated, the movie is not even officially released until tomorrow, there are no box office numbers, yet you are already calling it a failure. You are so desperate to be right. Why is that? Again, what satisfaction do you get from all of this bullshit, because that's what it is, bullshit. It's a movie. It isn't life. But to you, for some unknown reason, it is everything. Continue on with your sad lonely existence. You are at the very least, entertaining, in a pathetic way.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Great Review - with one difference of opinion

    by ninpobugei

    ---I hope the movie tanks in proportion to the money spent. I'm just sick of ridiculously BIG blockbusters with no story and shameful amounts of money spent on special effects. Plenty of dramas offer much, MUCH better bang for the buck at a fraction of the budget. DISTRICT 9 this aint!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:42 a.m. CST

    People who want Avatar to fail hate cinema

    by PresidentLeprechaun

    Seriously, Cameron's ambitiously trying to reinvent the movie going experience. He invented new cameras new 3d to entice people back to the theatres. In an age, with movie downloading, home theatres, encouraging people to go to the cinema is an admirable thing. And even if Avatar does fail, he will have contributed all of these crazy cool new tools to filmmakers, to aid them in bringing their visions into reality. Interestingly, I wonder how much of his immense budget can be allocated to R&D and new technology capital, which can be reused and licensed. I think that alone is one of the reasons why Avatar will not fail (although the haters will do their best to prove that it has bombed, for their own satisfaction). Either way, the studio and Cameron will succeed in the long run from Cameron's work, and in the next few years, we'll be seeing some phenomenal movies from Cameron.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:42 a.m. CST

    its the build up of unimaginable hate thats "poisoned" the site

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    several months of Asi posting novels re Star Trek that had basically filled up the hate containment chamber. <p> The added recent hate from RefutethestuffIdontagreewith and RetardedWilliams has resulted in a breach to the hate containment chamber, hate is literally poisoning this site. <p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:49 a.m. CST

    THANK YOU BEAKS

    by SithMenace

    for an honest review that wasn't jaded by the flash and spectacle. So few critics are actually talking about the writing, but I'm glad you had the balls to do it. Even though you're taking serious shite for it.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:52 a.m. CST

    Series 7...Fortune's fool

    by rogueleader66

    Series.....that's true but it really is sad sometimes to see the amount of hate on here, after all when all is said and done they are just movies. Entertainment, nothing more. Having passion for cinema is one thing, and I have that. But obsession is not healthy, especially negative obsession, it's twice as unhealthy, all this hate spewing nonsense over a movie, something that has no direct effect on your daily life. Amazing the amount of pure stupidity on display, but like I said it's somewhat entertaining.<P>Fortune....agreed, I have the feeling a lot of these haters will end up liking the movie, but they will never ever admit it because it makes them look like the idiotic fools they truly are. I don't hide the fact that I have been underwhelmed by all I have seen from this film, but I still want to see it, because it's Cameron. <P>No box office numbers, just reviews, yet fools like Refute and others are already declaring Avatar's failure. Since when do reviews mean anything in regard to a movies failure or success? Transformers 2 was panned by just about every critic (and rightfully so), yet it did $400 million box office. Reviews mean nothing. So declaring avatar a failure by its reviews is just about the most retarded thing you could do. But hey, look who we are talking about, people whose very existence is defined by a movies success or failure. Sad, so very very sad.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:53 a.m. CST

    FlickaPoo

    by frozen01

    "two words. American Gods." <p>HELL YES! <p>Oh, and Twatwaffle. Merry Christmas :)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:56 a.m. CST

    PresidentLeprechaun

    by rogueleader66

    You hit the nail on the head my friend. His intention is to be admired, his passion is to be admired. It doesn't matter if we like the movie or not, Cameron has a love for cinema that you can see, that is to be admired even if you don't find his films to be all that good.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:59 a.m. CST

    Great review!

    by alienindisguise

    I'm glad there are still people out there who can recognize when a film is missing the most crucial element there is...THE STORY! It's no surprise that this most important facet of filmmaking is going by the wayside given how illiterate our culture has become.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Mr Beaks is right!

    by JTStyler

    I saw Avatar last night. I have enjoyed all of Cameron's previous work except Piranha 2. Ok, not seen that one. For all the CG wizardry, how disappointingly mundane was that plot! It is still a 3.5 - 4 star film with pretty strong performances but the plot is mediocre. And that critics out there are not calling this out is pretty poor! Why should we settle for mediocrity? I for one will not and that is why District 9 is still my favourite sci-fi film of the Year. Story will always be more important than effects for me! The Styler has spoken!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:05 a.m. CST

    Film directors don't age well

    by SithMenace

    A few exceptions aside (Hitchcock, Ford) most directors do their best work early in their career, imo. As they get older and richer and more content, they lose that fire that drove them to prove themselves. <p>I'm not gonna bash George Lucas and I don't want this TB to turn into that, but he is a perfect example. If you watch interviews with him from back when he was doing Star Wars, he's so angry and resentful of the Hollywood system. Now, he's practically the father of it, and that made him rich and he doesn't care about making good movies anymore. He got fat and content, surrounded himself with yes men and lost his fire. His happy family life got reflected in his movies, and the angry auteur or even the angry divorcee' disappeared. <p>If you think I'm wrong, just compare the first half of any director's body of work to the second, and with few exceptions, the second half doesn't hold up.<p>Anyway, my point is that it seems like the same thing is happening to Cameron.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:06 a.m. CST

    So it's not a movie for you to enjoy the story,

    by estacado1

    but it's for you to immerse yourself in the beautiful world of Pandora. That is just a lame excuse to like a movie, and a VERY lame excuse to call a movie GREAT. If JC created a mockumentary narrated by David Attenborough exploring Pandora, will it be an even greater movie than Avatar? When push comes to shove, a movie should immerse you in its story, AND its environment, not just the latter. The environment should be used to support the story, not as a standalone wonder to be visually enjoyed. <p>p.s. copy pasta from another thread since there's more action here.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST

    PS.

    by JTStyler

    Aside from Piranha 2, True Lies and Titanic, Avatar is Cameron's weakest effort.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST

    PS.

    by JTStyler

    Aside from Piranha 2, True Lies and Titanic, Avatar is Cameron's weakest effort.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST

    The sad thing is

    by rogueleader66

    Look at movies like Iron Man and The Dark Knight, big his. Smart well made movies, not brainless CGI crapfests. You would think the public would demand more quality movies like that. WRONG. What was the biggest movie of 2009? Transformers 2. Yea I will admit it's a guilty pleasure, I enjoyed it in the way you enjoy looking at a car accident, you know you shouldn't but you do anyways. It was a loud, dumb CGI fest, but fun nonetheless. My point is, the public is a bunch of retards, how can people go from IM and TDK and be totally satisfied with brainless fare like TF2, GI Joe, and T:S? I just don't get the general public, and I don't think I ever will.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST

    It's the haters vs. the starfuckers around here these days...

    by REMcycle

    This makes me think of "The Phantom Menace" when every last one of you motherfuckers was all "ooooh, it was SOOOO great...YAY Star Wars!!!" and then two weeks later you were forced to shed the hype and say to yourselves "well, maybe it WAS a flaming turd." Cameron is, if nothing else EXTREMELY ambitious and I think we all can respect him for that. But if YOU think the movie sucked, then the movie sucked, $500M or not. So let's stop trying to destroy reviewers' characters and take their write-ups for what they are...opinions, people.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST

    So Beaks didn't like the story because he didn't

    by PresidentLeprechaun

    like the story. Nothing wrong with telling a classic story, even if it's predictable. Did I go into Star Trek full of suspense as to which Trek characters would be killed? No because, there's no way they would kill off any main characters, and the villain would die.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:09 a.m. CST

    Can't wait to see how the Conservatards somehow spin this

    by Stabby

    to be about Obama.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:11 a.m. CST

    Beaks, Cameron is no Godard he's just another Lucas

    by Stabby

    All of the problems with Avatar you mention could just as easily be applied to any of the Prequels.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:11 a.m. CST

    JT

    by rogueleader66

    District 9 is my favorite movie from the past year, it was simply awesome. I hope we can look forward to more awesome sci-fi from Blomkamp. If he can do what he did in District 9 with a minuscule budget, imagine what is next. Damn most movies with 4 times the budget don't turn out as good as D9 did.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:13 a.m. CST

    Beaks comes off as quite pretentious.

    by DoctorWho?

    Some people are simply looking for a movie which will "pin an audience to their seat and give them a spectacular night out at the movies" Not everyone is looking for "subtle integration of theme" Mr. Filmschool. Try a good book. <p> And the best of his ignorant statements "And maybe we've found a filmmaker who's even more disdainful of Americans than Jean-Luc Godard. And maybe I'm talking myself into loving this movie." <p> REALLY? THAT is what would bring you to a movie regardless of all of it's short comings? What an ignorant statement on MANY levels. Way to shoot your credibility to hell. <p> On one hand you complain how "... his characters are just ciphers - either pure of heart or evil to the core of their being"... yet, like many here, your politics uses the same ridiculous template. The fact that you have no ability to control these emotions from bleeding over into a movie review is remarkable.<p> That being said, I'm sure he's spot on about Bland Worthington. There are hundred's of unknown actors out there who could smoke this guy.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST

    I'm not hating on Avatar, yet

    by Stabby

    I am going to see this in IMax this weekend. But, it has been proven that you do not have to sacrifice character and story when you make a Big Special Effects Blockbuster, i.e. Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight and Sin City. So, Lucas and Cameron's lack of storytelling is either laziness or evidence of hackery. Both have proven they are capable of creating fully developed character and engaging storylines in the distant past.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Rock musicians don't age well either

    by Stabby

    Just look at Phil Collins.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST

    by Stabby

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST

    by Stabby

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:18 a.m. CST

    David Cronenberg has aged rather well, thank you very much

    by Stabby

    Just watched Eastern Promises for the first time last night.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:18 a.m. CST

    Phantom Menace comparrisons

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    think the geeks like us may have overlooked the movies flaws initially, but the critics were mixed on that movie, so far after 100 reviews on RT, Avatar is still very favourable (84%). <p> I still think Star Trek is a much better comparrison in that the geeks are and will be much more critical on Avatar than the critics.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:22 a.m. CST

    the real question is

    by tradeskilz

    is bring it on a better movie than the wrestler?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST

    tradeskilz

    by rogueleader66

    No comparison....oscar winner Mickey Rourke, Marisa Tomei.<P>Bring it on has hot as hell Eliza Dushku and Kirsten Dunst the last time she looked good.<P>Bring It On wins, hands down. LOL Could not resist that one.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:28 a.m. CST

    Bring it On negated the credibility of Beaks' Aught's List

    by Stabby

    I could name a hundred movies that deserved to be on that list before BIO. For instance, Coyote Ugly and Stick It.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:31 a.m. CST

    By Mr.Beaks' own criteria for enjoying a movie's storytelling

    by DrinkWhiskey

    I fully expect him to pan John Carter of Mars.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Bring It On was brilliant

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    though some "date" rapes would have been even more hilarious. Nothing says comedy quite like cheerleader rape. <p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Thank God for an Honest Review

    by RockMSockM

    Tired of the gushing fanboys.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Is it possible Cameron is too geeky for his own good

    by skimn

    He claims that thousands of hours were spent creating the look and the details of the plant, animal and alien life of Pandora. A language to "out-Klingon Klingon". But at the center is the same storytelling elements from Screenwriting 101. The military leader bad? Noooo, really? The corporate stooge cares only about profit (shades of Paul Reiser in Aliens), and so on. The experience of Avatar sounds better than the movie itself.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST

    NO RAPE = NOT ENJOYABLE FOR BEAKS

    by RICHARD_GERE_RAPED_MY_GERBIL

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST

    GERE

    by Stabby

    How do you know one of those Blue Smurfcats doesn't get raped?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:55 a.m. CST

    Beak's a hater, fuck you Beaks

    by Chagui

    and fuck all of you haters. Yeah, you lost all your believable critics credentials with that stupid list of yours, (no Dark Knight, ha). Fuck you Beaks.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:02 a.m. CST

    STORY I GOT. WHAT I WANT IS EYEBALL FUCKERY.

    by BringingSexyBack

    Does Dancing With The Stars feature cheesy narratives? Absolutely. <P> Is it still the greatest entertainment value on television? Without a doubt. <P>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:06 a.m. CST

    Looks like a cross between Elfquest and Blue Man Group

    by FeralAngel

    I haven't exactly been squitching over this movie anyway. And it does indeed look like Cameron has George Lucas Syndrome: the hunger for eye candy overcomes the intellect, thus causing the victim to suck up oodles of pixels and shit out...well, shit. Not interested. Not taking any trip to Pandora (is there a GAYER name for a fictional fantasy world?)

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:11 a.m. CST

    I have a new found respect for Mr. Beaks

    by Sithdan

    He didn't give Avatar a sloppy, wet kiss like many other critics did just because it's the trendy thing to do. It's refreshing to see critics not jump on the online bandwagon.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:39 a.m. CST

    Agree with your review

    by the_juicy_box_of_megan_fox

    <p>I agree with just about everything in this review, although I think I liked "Avatar" a little bit more than you, Beaks.</p> <p>I got bored with the film's plot at about the 45 minute mark, which made the two hours that followed pretty slow. In fact, the big "This is our land" speech made me kinda chuckle at how predictable it was. Without the visuals -- which are incredible at times -- "Avatar" is your basic SyFy original movie of the week.</p> <p>Don't get me wrong -- I liked "Avatar" and gave it a mostly positive review. But the visuals this film has demanded a more compelling and original story.</p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    It MAY be a disappointing movie BUT

    by m_prevette

    I sure as hell wouldn't take Beaks' word for it. His top 100 list confirmed he has no clue. At all. No clues. He checks the cupboard every morning, no clues. Sorry. All out

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:54 a.m. CST

    rogueleader66

    by Series7

    I'm excited for this movie. And after seeing Crap In The Air last night, I hope this movie fucking wins all the Oscars that shit fest was going to eat up. I don't care if Sam Worthington can't act, I'd rather see him win Best Actor then Greg Cloontang Clooney, for playing himself.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Disappointed

    by JTStyler

    Avatar makes me sad because this is a missed opportunity. A chance to make a great film. Missed. And because Cameron can do better. 10 years working on the effects and 10 minutes on the story. Real shame. Oh and people quoting Rotten Tomatoes percentages - look at the average score 7.4/10. I rest my case. This is beginning to feel like Phantom Menace all over again. I wanted to believe and saw Avatar opening night but I'm afraid this film has no business being on a Oscar best picture shortlist.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST

    SMURF WARS

    by Stabby

    Can't wait to see Smurf Wars in IMax!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Oh

    by JTStyler

    I don't want to ruin the film for you guys. It's still a good, enjoyable film but not a game-changer in the thing that counts above all else - script.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST

    So the haters are over here and the lovers are with Wyrm

    by Hey_Kobe_Tell_Me_How_My_Ass_Tastes

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Beaks

    by mcknicker

    Beaks, thanks for the honest review. I'm starting to get disgusted by the fanboy-ism. I think this movie would have been on my watchlist if not for the infuriating amount of hype. Oh well, I'm sure most of the folks who see it will (have been brainwashed to) like it. I just won't bother waiting in line. Also, it's nice to see Mr. Cameron hasn't slipped some cash to at least one of the AICN writers.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:32 p.m. CST

    Is this the same Beaks..

    by Stalkeye

    ..who picked some of the shitiest picks for best movies of the decade?<p>yeah, you're someone who knows how to judge a film.i'll reserve my opinion until i see the film in IMAX.So far it's received plenty of positive reviews so it can't be as disapointing as you think.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Mr. Beaks review means nothing!

    by Orionsangels

    His view comes from a long history of hatred towards Cameron. He went into this movie looking for exactly what he hates about Cameron and of course he found it. Mr Beaks is like a flea on the side lines among big time critics who loved the film. So please ignore Mr Beaks review and enjoy the film.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Obviously there wasn't enough...

    by Rhuragh

    ...blue-skin rape.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:41 p.m. CST

    AVATAR will taper off quickly at the box office.

    by hallmitchell

    It's just got no reason to keep going back and back like Iron Man or Titanic.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 12:49 p.m. CST

    As Corny as Kansas in August!

    by bswise

    There you have it, straight from The Beak, pure unadulterated "spoonfed" "cliched" creamed CORN! Garmonbozia!! Oh, and it ends with a giant battle? You don't day?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Whether it's corny or not...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    It's been a while since there's been a huge sci-fi movie that was anything more than an excuse to sell toys and maximize profit for Hollywoods' corporate owners. Whether or not the alegorical element of the film "has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer", at least Cameron has the vision to add an extra layer of depth to his story. You remember those right? Like Star Wars or Close Encounters. I never excpect Kubrick-level subtlety from Cameron. It wasn't like the anti-nuclear war message of the Terminator films weren't up in your grill and it didn't stop me from enjoying it. It's like what Larry Kasdan said about writing The Empire Strikes Back: "The way George works doesn't really lend itself to alot of nuance but what you get in exchange is something incredibly powerful". I think Big Jim understands this.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST

    Gaspar Noe

    by Sgt.Steiner

    is an original filmmaker, and the rape jokes are pathetic and cheap. Also as much as love "Aliens", "Alien" > "Aliens". And since when does anti-imperialist translate to "anitcapitalist"? "Speed Racer" was one of the most visually ravishing films ever made, and its them was a rather sophisicated one of "individualism versus rampant capitalism", which is not far from Linus and his blue blanket questioning rampant commercialism in a Christmas special on a major network.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi, you misunderstand me

    by AsimovLives

    I don't hate Jar Jar Abrasm's SHIT TREK. I don't feel hatred for it. I feel loath, disgust and disrespect. Different things.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Hallmitchell

    by ColonelFatheart

    It could very well taper off, yes, but if the movie ends up having broad appeal, you're going to get a lot of people coming out of this weekend telling their skeptical friends and family members to check it out. Holmes is on the horizon, and it'll take a chunk out of the business in the second week, but Avatar will likely have legs if the audience responds positively and the awards nominations come pouring in.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Senior Spielbergio

    by JTStyler

    My good man, I hear you. But you say "at least...." As District 9 and Moon have both proven, why should we settle for mediocrity? If we settle for mediocrity, we encouraage mediocrity. Avatar's message frankly doesn't count as an extra layer of depth because the story is a familiar refrain. Big sci-fi/fantasy can be well-scripted working on several levels. I think Chris Nolan achieved this last year with the Dark Knight.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Senior Spielbergio

    by JTStyler

    My good man, I hear you. But you say "at least...." As District 9 and Moon have both proven, why should we settle for mediocrity? If we settle for mediocrity, we encouraage mediocrity. Avatar's message frankly doesn't count as an extra layer of depth because the story is a familiar refrain. Big sci-fi/fantasy can be well-scripted working on several levels. I think Chris Nolan achieved this last year with the Dark Knight.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    You do get way too worked up about Star Trek but you know what? I can't disagree with one single criticism you have about that movie.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:14 p.m. CST

    I won't listen to a man who put Bring It on over TDK

    by JeanGrey_X23_lesboSex

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:14 p.m. CST

    Sorry

    by JTStyler

    Posted twice.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:25 p.m. CST

    JTStyler

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I hear you but I think it is an extra layer of narrative storytelling at work here. Transformers certainly had nothing to say other than "big robots go boom". And I love District 9 and Moon (In fact, i think I favor Moon a little more). It's just that I don't think it has anything to do with mediocrity. It's just two different styles of sci-fi stroytelling like the difference between Star Wars and 2001. I like both but I see what your saying. Stuff like Moon to me, is more in the category of literary storytelling which has been missing from film since about, oh 1977. It's refreshing for all of us to see it come back but I don't think "adventure sci-fi" should be written off. That's the kind of fantastic storytelling that made Star Wars and the Matrix such a hit. It's just the balance with that and more cereberal sci-fi has been way off for about a decade now. And as far as the message, film reflects what's happening in the real world and I think a film about environmental rape and corporate greed is something we really need to hear right now. These are very important issues but people don't like to be preached to so that's where the sci-fi action element comes in. It makes swallowing that bitter pill alot easier. Star Trek based it's entire 40 year history on that. Communist? Naw. There just Klingon with cool knives. I don't mind a "message" in my film but you got to entertain me first. Again, Kubrick was the master of this. How many people really realize 2001 was about the nature of God?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Back from watching AVATAR, just a few moments ago.

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    I couldn't get enough. Can't wait to see it again next week, this time in 3D.<p>:-D

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Hmm, good points Spielberg

    by JTStyler

    My problen is that Avatar's message, commendable as it may be is packaged in the most cliched story possible. The age old story I have seen countless times from Dances with Wolves to Last Samurai. And from an artistic p.ov., we shouldn't be praising Cameron for being relevant as the message against environmental rape is as old as the hills. I tend to mentally separate movies like Transformers and Avatar. Avatar has a great message but with that sort of subtlety or lack thereof, well it's preaching no matter how much action is put in and takes a lot less skill. Aliens for example has a wonderfully subtle message about the strength of mother-child bond and the Dark Knight about the War on Terror. I wish Cameron had made his subtext not become text or better yet not try if he was going to fumble it so badly.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Hmm, good points Spielberg

    by JTStyler

    My problen is that Avatar's message, commendable as it may be is packaged in the most cliched story possible. The age old story I have seen countless times from Dances with Wolves to Last Samurai. And from an artistic p.ov., we shouldn't be praising Cameron for being relevant as the message against environmental rape is as old as the hills. I tend to mentally separate movies like Transformers and Avatar. Avatar has a great message but with that sort of subtlety or lack thereof, well it's preaching no matter how much action is put in and takes a lot less skill. Aliens for example has a wonderfully subtle message about the strength of mother-child bond and the Dark Knight about the War on Terror. I wish Cameron had made his subtext not become text or better yet not try if he was going to fumble it so badly.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    SithMenace, AICN virus

    by MattmanReturns

    Yeah I can't view AICN on my PC because Norton blocks it now. I have to view it on my macbook.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Motoko how was the

    by Trannyformers_Apologist

    story acting dialogue and characterizations ?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:03 p.m. CST

    I see what your saying...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I think the most important thing you said is that you mentally separate Transformers and Avatar. That's very good. Alot of people won't do that. Yes, the story is as old as the settlement of the west but it IS being told in a new way. I have this idea that if you take any story or job profession; put it into a science fiction setting and that story or chosen profession becomes a hundred times more interesting. I say profession because I'm thinking of that anime "Planetes" which is essentially about garbage men. Now who would want to see a story about garbage men? But garbage men in space, having to clean up orbital debris? Now that's interesting. Same, I think; with this story. Interesting what you said about Dark Knight. I never thought of it that way. I only saw it once on Imax. I think I'm going to have to watch it again with that in mind. Thanks for that.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:18 p.m. CST

    Fair point...

    by JTStyler

    I give you your dues - you have a point about telling old stories in a new venue. Fair dinkums.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:22 p.m. CST

    You too man.

    by seniorspeilbergio

    Definately picking up Dark Knight soon. My first Blu Ray purchase i think.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:28 p.m. CST

    I HATE TO GLOAT BUT...

    by mrdck

    HAHAAAAAA FUCKIN HAAAAAAAAAAAH. Oh, Turd, Ace of Wands and Ominus I CAN'T HEAR YOOUUU!!! Where are you hiding you pathetic pig fuckers. Crying into your Cameron boxsets wailing into the cold harsh wind "Aliens was still good..."

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:44 p.m. CST

    GLOAT? ABOUT WHAT?

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST

    seniorspeilbergio

    by AsimovLives

    For all that matters, i do think you are one cool guy, friend. And your nick always cracks me up. If you want to go even more spanish on it, learn that Spieberg (a german name) translated in spanish reads "Montejoyar". His name in spanish would read "Esteves Montejoyar".

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:50 p.m. CST

    Nice Asimov...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    Glad you got the joke.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Somebody keep Beaks away from the keyboard..

    by Billyeveryteen

    And give him back his mop.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST

    Ya for Beaks!

    by spiceybiscuit

    So glad he did not jump on the fan wagon of nerdville and state that this is the greatest movie ever! It looks boring and bland... ps Jar Jar Binks called and he wants his bad CG back

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    Seems i was justified in my cautious optimism about AVATAR

    by AsimovLives

    While i never bashed it, i have never been gushing about it. and the trailer ddi give me pause on my enthusiasm, to the point i became pretty serene in my expectations about AVATAR.<br><br>And i don't take Mr Beaks' review as any indicator, because frankly, and like most of his reviews, it's just a long diatribe filled with nonsensical nonsequeturs and posing as the intellectual he's not. All his review reads like he wants to be the "KOOL" kid who's tooo good for this movie and he will not lower hismelf to the hoi polloi and will find any tiny stuff to crap on AVATAR so to prove he's not part of the herd. While praising the shit out of Jar Jar Abrams's SHIT TREK and repeating the same shit everybody said. Mr Beaks has a strange way to mark his difference.<br<<br>But let me say this: while i don't expect AVATAR to be a game-changer (never bought into that hype), i find it terribly suspect Mr Beaks's review. The same fool who loved Bad Boys II now finds faults in a James Cameron movie? From the same man who thinks Bring It On is a better mvoie then THE DARK KNIGHT. Yeah, right!<br><br>But for the same of argume, let us say that Avatar is a failure. You know what? I rather watch a James Cameron gfailure anyday of the week over most hack's sucesses. James Cameron making a movie about pain dry for 3 hours while he sleeps would still be a 1000 times better movie then all the big budget SF movies made this year made by hacks that the AICN geeks went gay on them.<br><br>I haven't seen AVATAR yet, but i tell you this, if i watch it and realise the movie is actually a pretty good one, Mr Beaks will get it ugly from me. There will be blood. Because the thing i have the least problem is to tear a new asshole on a fool who bashes a good movie while at the same time he hyped and raised sky high a piece of shit like Jar Jar Abrasm's SHIT TREK. and it dioesn't even matter that Mr Beaks put a lot of truly good movies in his list. His real sin is WHAT HE DIDN'T PUT IN. And you are also damned by omission. The knives are out.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Let's say for the sake of argument AVATAR is a failure

    by AsimovLives

    I'd rather watch a James Cameron's failure then any hack's sucess anyday of the week. James Cameron making a 3 hours long movie about pain drying in real time would still be a 1000 time sbetter movie then all the big budget SF movies made this year by miserable untalented hacks that AICN crew and geeks went completly gay on them.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Billyeveryteen

    by AsimovLives

    I'm prety harsh on Mr Beaks, but that Merrick guy is even worst. How the fuck that guy even got a gig here? Whose's dick he sucked?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST

    I just read a book by Shawn Levy

    by cookylamoo

    "Rat Pack Confidential" a good read, especially if you want to know what creeps the Kennedys were.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST

    "Whose's dick he sucked?"

    by DocPazuzu

    Well, we know YOU'RE sucking HIS. Every time he posts Star Trek bait for you, you jump in like a pavlovian fucktard and make the hit count on his articles go through the roof. That's right, dickhead -- your hate for Star Trek is earning Merrick money.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    No "Emerald Forest"?

    by The Devilled Backscribe

    That was the first thing I thought about, seeing this movie. Big corporate guys ripping up the rainforest, while an "outsider" has gone native. Let's not forget the cliched "rallying for battle against the outsider" speech from "Braveheart". Which also had blue faces. At least this time Cameron remembered to put a gas giant in the sky. That honking great ringed world was entirely missing from LV-426's sky in "Aliens"...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:20 p.m. CST

    Speaking of Emerald Forest

    by AsimovLives

    When there will ever be a proper DVD/blu-ray release of that much ignored good movie? The vanilla DVD that exists is an insult! Not even a audio comentary by John Boorman, a director not aversed at those at all.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST

    AVATAR reminds me of a Ursula L. LeGuinn's book...

    by AsimovLives

    ... called THE WORD FOR WORLD IS FOREST. The basic plot is about the same, only even more cynical and harsher on the way it depicts the humans exploiting an alien world.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST

    “Ursula K. Le Guin......perhaps!

    by theKRELL

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives

    by FluffyUnbound

    I have always thought that as well. LeGuin at least made it plausible that the humans could lose, just by making the alien opponent willing to lose "men" until the humans just ran out of ammunition and food. It was her little bit of imitation Tacitus with reference to the Viet Nam war - "You can't use technical advantage to beat an enemy so determined to win that he doesn't care about casualties." I hope Cameron does something like that, instead of having the Navi-Ewoks win by setting up clever rope traps and shit. I'm still waiting for cable for this one, but I hope it doesn't bomb so we can see the tools Cameron has developed in the service of better stories. My bitch here has always been that it was clear that Cameron's story was a hackneyed retread, and even I am getting a bit bored with the "Evil White Man Corporation That Doesn't Respect Nature Must Learn the Error of Its Ways" storyline. I also didn't like some of the basic art design choices. But I do respect Cameron as a filmmaker so I hope they at least break even on Dances With Wolves III here.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:03 p.m. CST

    Bring it On Was a Good Film

    by kevinwillis.net

    But better than Zodiac? The Wrestler? The Prestige? American Psycho? Dozens of other films? Beaks complaints sound like: "I just bought the perfect car, but I really wanted plastic surgery, so I'm going to complain about how this perfect car is predictable and unengaging, and not interesting, like a new nose would be."

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST

    I Just Watched Avatar . . .

    by kevinwillis.net

    And it wasn't Gone With The Wind, and I was wanting to watch Gone With the Wind, so I think it sucks.<br><br>That's my Beaks impression. Thankya, thankya, I'll be here for the rest of my life.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST

    ...almost any Ursula K. Le Guin sci-fi would make a great...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...movie. Don't know whether to be happy or sad nobody has decided to seriously mine that vein yet.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:10 p.m. CST

    theKRELL

    by AsimovLives

    Correct. I always blunders on her name. Whichs is a shame, the great dame of SF deserves better respect.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:12 p.m. CST

    The reason why...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    you see so many "Evil white corporation that doesn't respect nature must learn the error of it's ways" storylines is because over the last 30 years the world has been under the iron rule of evil white corporations that don't respect nature and NEVER learn the error of there ways. Filmmakers (not hacks) feel compelled to keep making stories about this in the hopes sooner or later, these stories will inspire people to stop taking there bullshit and reject the second comming of the robber barons. And from the way things are going these days, I'd say you're going to see a serious slow down of these stories in the next 5 to ten years. Their day in the sun is obviously over.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    FluffyUnbound

    by AsimovLives

    Very keen observations on that sadly overlooked book. Should be better known.<br><br>i guess it's useless now to make a movie adaptation of THE WORD FOR WORLD IS FOREST, now. Everybody would accuse it of being a knock-off of AVATAR, even though it's based on a book published in 1975.<br>As a movie, i always envisioned it like a SF version of Terrence Malick's THIN RED LINE, you know what i mean?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    At least in THE WORD FOR WORLD IS FOREST...

    by AsimovLives

    ... there's no human savior who saves the alien natives. The alien natives saves themselves.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    The Word for World is Forest

    by seniorspeilbergio

    That's one I've been meaning to get to for years, ever since I saw that illustration of one of the aliens in Barlowes' Guide to Extraterrestrials. So it's worth the read?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:17 p.m. CST

    seniorspeilbergio

    by AsimovLives

    And yet, even after ENRON, nobody seems to have learned the lesson. and the proof of that is that they voted for George W. Bush twice. If ever a president was a stooge for corporations, he was him. and people liked him and voted for him twice. Lesson learned? Not yet i'm affraid.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    seniorspeilbergio

    by AsimovLives

    In my opinion, "The Word for World is Forest" is very good indeed. But it took me quite a while to get my own copy of the book. It's been out of print for a while already. So much so, that i got my own copy as a used book from Amazon. I'm suprised they even found one to sell. I should re-read it.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:24 p.m. CST

    ...I still say AVATAR is the anti-MATRIX. You plug-in...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...and escape into a beautiful world where life is vivid and has meaning...escaping the cold hard reality of a damaged body and gray industrial corridors.<P>Plug in and escape into a more significant reality instead of unplug and face the grim truth.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:26 p.m. CST

    ...seniorspeilbergio, anything by LeGuin is well worth...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...a read. Sometimes I pick up a book of hers and the cover or the premise don't grab me...but if I finally sit down and read it I'm always blown away.<P>Now I pretty much read any book she writes...no question asked.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo

    by AsimovLives

    LeGuin is an excelent writer, no doubt about that.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:30 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo

    by AsimovLives

    What is the plug-in you say that exists in AVATAR?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:36 p.m. CST

    avatar is the kiddies version of the matrix

    by Ash_Williams

    you have to be 5 years old to enjoy avatar

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:37 p.m. CST

    ...AsimovLives...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...just that in THE MATRIX people's consciousness is projected into a false reality that is more benevolent than "real" reality, but ultimately meaningless. The goal is to escape the dream and return to reality...even if it's cold and dark.<P>In AVATAR, the hero lives in a gray industrial reality...and fulfills himself by projecting his consciousness into a more colorful and meaningful "reality". <P>The concept is similar, but upside down and backwards.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Cool. I'm on it...

    by seniorspeilbergio

    I have to admit, I really enjoy the female science fiction writers. The guys, alot of times are too damn dry. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading a really long winded technical disertation. Alot of times the character developement doesn't go very far beyond the persons' name. But the ladies tend to really humanize there sci-fi. They write more about how the technology or alien presence affects people and society. Kubrick used to say the same thing. Apparently after having a few male writers take a stab at AI, he told one of the screenwriters, "now we need to smear this with vaginal gel", which was his darkly humorous way of saying, "a female sci-fi writer needs to do a once over on this to humanize it".

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST

    Avatar 2D - good for Alan Smithee

    by celsus

    ...but "bad" for James Cameron. He is good, very good, but video games on screen are not his business. The movie is OK, has some very nice moments, but the "game changing" SFX, at least in 2D were quite old...it looked like "Star Wars II reloaded", "Aliens: digitally enhanced edition" (especially the ending), "Mutant Jurassic Parc" and "The Last of the Mohicans in Space". I think I mised thepoint or I am simply too old for that stuff. The 3D preview was nice but I knew 166min would be too long, even in 2D. Cut a 15min "best of" for another Universal Park theme, will be useful. Can't wait to see anothe Nolan movie, the real king of the world right now...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST

    ...it seems to me that both movies deal with the...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...nature of escapism, reality, and meaning in life...but are making exactly opposite arguments.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:44 p.m. CST

    MY REVIEW

    by ominus

    <p>Finally the long-awaited day for the Avatar premiere came,and losing no time i grabbed my ticket for the first screening today. First of all I would like to state that i am a long-time huge fan of Cameron's work,i love all his films and i was sure from the start that Avatar was not going to let me down in any way. But dont misunderstand me,I might be a fanboy of specific franchises,genres,works or artists,but i have never let that cloud my judgment over the movies i watch. I am a cinephil,i love movies,and when i spend my time on a movie,i want the movie to worthy of it,i dont want to disappoint me,otherwise i will trash it regardless of who made it. So enough with the clarification,lets get to the review. <p>Lets start from the most obvious question. Is it the visual awesomeness that Cameron promised us? you already know the answer for that which is a huge affirmative. Cameron has delivered 100% what he promised in the technical part of the movie. He was not lying when he was talking about jaw-breaking visuals,CGI quality never seen before. The CGI is simply the best i have ever seen in a movie (or videogame) until now. Simply the best,period. It sets the bar for the sfx a lot higher,and it will become the reference point of measurement for the upcoming spectacle movies of the next decade (yes decade). It was obvious from the start,that the real protagonist of the movie is Pandora itself. And the CGI does the best job to give bones and flesh to the vivid imagination of Cameron's cgi artists,who must be applauded for their magnificent work,in order to create a visceral,living and complex ecosystem of grand proportions,both fascinating and threatening. Dense,lustful vegetation,rich wildlife,living creatures climbing,eating,drinking,playing with their youngs,enormous detail in everything,from the small leafs flying here and there,tree branches moving because of the wind,water drops falling from flowers and insects crawling on tree trunks. But that is just Pandora at the day. At night the same environment changes,becomes something entirely different. Its then when the bio-luminescence kicks in and the unlimited imagination of the cgi artists is fully unleashed: vivid colors,dreamlike scenery sequences (my favorite is when they are walking on the tree trunk,and in the background you watch Pandora's enormous and luminous primary planet),wonderful play of lighting and shadow,again huge detail in everything,like when Jake walks,and the dark green grass under his every footstep,glows. <p>But imho where CGI stands as the best work of photo-realism in a movie,is during the scenes in the floating mountains and especially when Jake and Neutiri fly together with their Banshees. I just cant describe it with words,i really could not tell if the scenery was real or not.And then we have the Navi,the unfortunate target of a much dismay from Cameron's doubters. Well once again they were wrong. Just like with Pandora's environment,the CGI artists have also made a terrific work with the creation of the Navi. Although when you see them for the first time,interacting with the humans,they bring an impression of fake,after a while you and specifically when Jake enters the forest ,its then that you compl forget about being fake,weird or cartoony. Their detailed texture,their muscular movement,their facial expression,their big,very detailed,living eyes (the most difficult thing to cgi draw),the way they walk,they interact,all these things are wonderfully orchestrated together in order to create the most living,breathing cgi characters you have witnessed in a film. And these Navi are not just a replica of each other,with small difference just to give the impression of variety. No,the artists werent lazy,they tried to make every Navi as an individual with its own physical distinguishness .From all the Navi, Neutiri is the most detailed and expressive (and sexy too) Navi,with Jake coming as second. <p>And finally we have the 3D aspect of the film. Many doubters accused Cameron of using the 3D as a gimmick,a bait for the spectacle lovers. But yet again they were wrong. I have to admit that when i watched the movie's screen preview on August,although i was thrilled by the CGI photo-realistic visuals,i was very disappointed with the 3D view of the film. Well i watched the movie in a different theater with a bigger screen (unfortunately not IMAX :( ) and better 3D equipment,and i have to say that the experience is completely different and that the 3D is truly an integrated part of the movie. <p>I have to remind you that Cameron said in an old interview of his,that he was not going to use the 3D excessively but only when he thought it was necessary for the narration of the story,with the classic 2D filming used in other parts of the film which didnt require 3D.And he did just that. For instance the indoor sequences although they have some 3d perspective (like when Quaritch debriefs the marines),you might say that it only works as a gimiick,it really is not needed. But its when Jake gets to his Avatar body and gets outdoors,it is then that 3D shows his teeth. <p>First of all when Jake wakes up in his Avatar body,through his eyes we immediately get the POV perception of a 3meter tall bipedal creature,height,depth,his relative size with the humans,everything registers quickly in our brain with the help of 3D.The immersion is strong and gets stronger when Jake get out to the open environment of Pandora. The camera angles and the rotation of the camera are used in such a way that the 3d perspective gives the impression to the movie viewer that he is Jake's place,in the center of the environment,and from his perspective he witnesses the beauty and the richness of his surroundings. For me the most obvious scene of that,was during the night,when Jake started to observe the bio-luminescence of the forest.,and the camera started rotating around his body. I really felt that i was in his place. <p>But i believe that the use of 3D apart from creating a more immersive, experience of the realistic and living Pandorian natural environment, it also helps in another level: i have already said that the Pandora ecosystem reeks of life,there is a lot of detail and a lot of motion. Imho the same scenes of Pandora in 2D would have become crowded,noisy with all that plethora of information. But 3D separates the scenes into three levels: in the foreground we have small elements like the flying bugs or leafs,or the flowers at the edges of the screen which enhance the perspective of depth,there is the middle level where the main scenery exists and then there is the background where we watch the rest of the detail of it. I think that helps to separate the information,and help the audience to grasp and marvel better the beauty of Pandora,since they can assimilate the rich images quicker. <p>So was the 3D CGI perfect? Ofc not,for example I though that some animals like the wild dogs,the rhinos and especially Thanator didnt have a very detailed texture,it looked a bit plastic. On the other hand the Banshees and the Horses were beautifully drawn and animated. The chase scene with Thanator was very thrilling and immersive (I really bent my head during the chase to avoid a leaf thrown at me,when Thanator reaped a tree),but the camera was very close to the creature,the action was rapid,and I was getting a blurry view of what happening,the chase scene looked like out of focus. But that maybe it was because I wear glasses,i asked my friend if he had the same problem which he denied. <p>But at the end you dont care for such minor flaws,not when you get to witness the most breath-taking,beautiful and strongest scene in the entire film. Its when Jake and Neutiri fly together with their banshees around the flying mountains. I can not describe that scene,you have to see it with your own eyes,to experience it yourself. I understand why Cameron considers it his most favorite one. (and btw Raimi and Blizzard take notice on that specific scene) <p>Thats all for the technical part of the movie. Now its time for the important part,the story of the movie. <p>I have to agree that the story is not original,yes its like Pocahontas/Dancing with Wolves,yes the characters are your expected archetypes (but not stereotypes) from such a story,yes it has the cliche messages about how bad capitalism/imperialism is,the safe-guarding of our planet,the respect of the different cultures etc,yes the dialogue is a bit hockey at some times,yes the film is not as much scifi/action driven as some hardcore fans of Cameron would want to be Frankly all these things are a small part of the whole package,the greatness of the movie manages to outshine all its minor flaws. and I also believe that all the stories have already been told during the humankind's history,and that nowadays we repeat the same old stories,again and again,doing it with unlimited different ways. And how well you tell a story is more important than the story itself. And Cameron is a master storyteller and with this movie,he proves that he still is. <p>As it is Cameron's trademark,the movie starts immediately,no intro credits,not even the title. With the use of Jake's personal diary and flashbacks we immediately get the necessary information about the who,the what,the why,etc.The people who were nagging all the time about the 'obvious' plot holes and inconsistencies of the movie,like the wheelchair,the treatment of his legs,etc,should relax and understand that Cameron has make a tremendous effort to create a believable world,with everything making sense and establishing strongly the Verisimilitude of the movie (you hear that director of the much overrated Distric 9?) The story is divided,lets say,in two parallel routes or parts. There is the story from the human side,and then there is the story the Navi side,and in the middle there is the protagonist of the movie,Jake Sully.Apart from the main story,we get smaller stories for the secondary characters which give depth to their personalities and explain the motives of their actions. For example there is a scene where through some photographs and a bit monologue from Sully we discover a more sensitive side of the Weaver's strict character,we learn her relationship with the Navi and what happened before the events of the movie. And all that from a small scene. But that scene is not only for character disclosure,but it plays its own role in the development of the story. Its all these small details,some photographs,the scars in Quaritch's head,etc,all these small things during the movie,which Cameron uses all together masterfully in his storytelling, in order to develop his characters and progress his story. <p>I do have some personal grips with the story. Unfortunately the characters of Ribisi and Rodriguez are in the background of the events,most of the time in the film.I really wanted more exposition from them,especially Ribisi's character. <p>The other problem I had,is that Cameron at some points of the film,he transcends from one scene to another in a bit of sudden way. Two examples: Sigourney when learns that Jake has replaced his dead brother in her project,she goes to Ribisi,who is the boss of the whole operation,to complain,and while you would expect,as usually happens in most of the movies,a long and loud confrontation between them,what happens is Ribisi immediately goes to his office,shows his flying rock on his desk,explains the reason why they are on Pandora and the sequence stops exactly there with Weaver looking at him with an annoyed face. Another similar example is when Jake is introduce to Neutiri's tribe. At first they dont want him there,but when Neutiri tells to her parents,who are the leaders of their tribe,that she witnessed an omen about Jack,they immediately decide to give him a chance and command Neutiri to teach him their ways. You would expect that the leader and at least some of the elder clan members would want to talk first about the subject,before taking any kind of decision,but that didnt happen,the decision was made very quickly. <p>I believe Cameron considered these scenes as time consuming,and for time saving reasons he gave them little gravitas in order to get fast in the important parts of the story and to have enough time to show to the audience the spectacle of Pandora .Besides he doesnt overdone with it,he only does these quick jumps in the story 2 or 3 times,they dont become irritating. <p>But what is Cameron's true achievement in the movie,is that he managed to create real characters out of CGI constructions. His Navi dont only look and feel alive,but they ARE individual characters with their own distinctive personalities,they are characters that you care for,that you might relate to and that you want to learn what it will happen to them during the movie. <p>How Cameron achieves that? He uses masterfully the facial and body movements of Navi during their interaction,he focuses on small details which might be simple,but are very common to us humans. For instance there is a scene where Neutiri watches Jake-Navi and her eyes give a hint of a hidden attraction for Jake. Later when she and Jake talk together,you can understand from the way they smile and look to each other,that now exists a mutual attraction. But at the some time,we get a shot of the rival,who watches this,and his facial expression betrays his anger about the developing situation. There is the scene before Neutiri and Jake make love,where they walk,and Jake being a bad boy grabs her tail to annoy her,and Neutiry runs smiling. And that specific scene for me at least,gives the best example of why Cameron waited so many years for the technology to mature. The movement and the interaction of the characters in that scene is so fluent,so natural,their smiling,how the look,they laugh,that a lesser photo-realistic CGI and motion capture technique would have negate the emotion and the realism of the human behavior,which those two cgi characters bring in that specific scene. <p>Its all these delicate details,small movements in the face,the eyes,the smile,its through all these that the emotional status of the Navi is expressed and makes them so human,so real,so alive. <p>I would like to make a comment here though. I was a bit disappointed with the love scene between Jake and Neutiri. It was very short and cut abruptly even before it started. No dont laugh,i am not a pervert,but Cameron did one of the most erotic love scenes in cinema,in his Titanic movie,and i was very interested to see how would approach the first love scene between two CGI characters in his new movie. and since Jake makes love with an alien female,using an alien body,it would be interesting to see his reaction from a scifi point of view.I dont know,but maybe Cameron did film a bigger version of the scene,but then he decided that the audience was not ready to watch that kind of interaction between two CGI characters (yes i know the Japanese dont have such problems) and probably would laugh,ignoring the true purpose of the scene. So he decided to cut it in a shorted version,and his decision is not wrong. Regardless, it doesnt matter,because imho,Cameron immediately after the love scene,gives us but the most scifi and character exposed,scene in the entire film.The scene is short with a brief monologue,but i dont know,it really did it for me as a scifi geek. <p>About the actors. Well as you expect from such a talented assembly,they all did solid performances. As it was obvious from the start,Weaver incarnates again her iconic character,Ripley,She is a geek scientist,but like Ripley she is tough,non compromising,persistent and with a strong maternal instict. Moreover her Navi version is the most identical (and sexier!) to her human physical appearance,and its really like watching Weaver in blue makeup acting. Impressive. <p>Ribisi is,you guessed,Burke from Aliens. He does a great job with it,despite his limited time in the movie. Rodriguez once again proves why she usually gets roles of tough but hot women. <p>Sam does a good job as the melancholic but proud marine,and he really transfers to the audience,his emotional status while being torn between his human comrades and his Navi friends. And dont forget that the Navi are motion captured actors,thus their movements and expressions are based on the real actors. Jake and Neutiri (especially her) do a wonderful job as the Navi,they really help the whole procedure to bring humanity in their cgi counterparts. <p>But the real star of the movie,is Strephen Lang. Lang, a very talented but underrated actor,literally steals every scene he is in,he simply outshines everyone else. He is the epitome of bad-ass,hard as nail,military leader who is determined to do the job regardless the cost. What Lang manages to pull out,is that although he is an cold blood,bad ass motherfucker,he is so cool,crafty and determined to to do his job,that not only you like him but you even cheer for him to win. Besides,Lang's Quaritch is not a bad guy,as many wrongly assume. Like Judge Dredd or Inspector Javert,he is a man of qualities and strong personality,but because of fate, he ended up serving the wrong system. And Lang,through his masterful acting,manages to bring that kind of villain in the big screen. <p>I wont bother to talk about the action,Cameron is and remains a master of the art of action,his action set pieces are big,massive,they reek of adrenaline,excitement and coolness,while remaining comprehensible,you can follow the action because he doesnt use at all the shaky camera stylization (you hear that Bay and co?),and he uses slow-mo rarely and only when its necessary to watch the character's specific reaction during a action sequence. In the last part of the movie,all hell breaks out,i wont say anything else than its one of the most epic fantasy/scifi battles you have ever witnessed in the big screen (you hear that Lucas?).As someone correctly said ,its the mother of all battles. <p>To sum up what Cameron manages,is to tell a story with engaging storytelling in a awe-inspiring fantasy world. His story remains interesting during the whole time of movie,the pacing and the buildup is well crafted,the story never becomes bloated or shallow,never too slow or too fast to follow. He develops interesting ,both navi and humans,characters,which you care for and you want to know what will happen to them during the movie. And finally he gives diachronic social,ecological and universal (but no political) messages without becoming preachy. And all the above are happening in a mythical,wondrous world,which he fully explores bringing in the big screen breath-taking images of amazing imagination. <p>So the final question is: Is Cameron's Avatar a game-changer which revolutionizes the cinema? <p>Lets clarify something first. the art of cinema has not changed much for the last forty years. Despite the birth of new genres or film-making techniques or cinematography styles,the quintessential artistic rules of creating a movie (how you set your frame,montage,etc,) remain the same,and frankly i dont think that they will ever change,just like the basic rules in music,literature,painting,etc have not changed. <p>Cameron has never claimed in his interviews that his goal with Avatar is to rewrite the book of film-making. What he wants to achieve with Avatar is to bring the people back to the cinema,to understand that they will never receive the full experience of the movie,if they watch it in a downloaded,pirate copy on their pc monitors. And I believe he succeed on that. <p>He proved that the 3D CGI is more than a technology used only as a gimmick for the movies,an extra eye-candy bonus for the audience. It is a tool which can be used effectively to create a visceral,life-like world,where imaginary but real-like characters inhabit it,and in a very immersive way you experience their stories. He also proved that such an experience is impossible to be achieved in its full degree,nowhere else than in a well-equipped cinema. The medium (cinema here) regains its role of defining the final shape of the artist's work and its importance in delivering and enhancing the full experience of the artwork to the audience. <p>An artist is restrained by its tools. And every tool which liberates the artistic skills and the full vision of an artist,is a welcomed gift. Its a fact that legendary film-maker acknowledge (Kubrick comes to my mind) and if film-makers like Lucas,Spielberg,etc understand Cameron's true meaning of its achievement,realize the full potential of the 3D CGI technology and start using seriously it as a tool for enhanced storytelling and immersive experience for their audience,and not just for visuals,then this will lead to a new era of cinematic spectacle with content,and yes its then that Avatar can be considered as a game-changer. <p>Final words. <p>Avatar is a visionary masterpiece.period. It has flaws but they are trivial .What really matters is that,apart from its epic spectacle,it has BALANCE and SOUL. It does deserve oscar nominations,apart from the obvious technical ones,for best film and best director. it wont get them,and maybe it doesnt deserve to. Lang must get an oscar nomination for supporting male actor. It revolutionizes the sfxs to their next level and show new boundaries for the film-makers to reach. It also proves that Cameron has the balls,in an era of endless remakes,comic adaptations,sequels,prequels and reboots,to make a huge film with original story and cgi characters as his protagonists. <p>Avatar is targeted at everyone,the kids,the adults,the elders,it has something to offer to each and everyone of the them So leave your prejudice for the cartoony NavI and your nitpicking outside,open your mind,get your friends,your family,your partners and go watch it,preferably in a 3D IMAX theater or wherever you can. <p>Go,watch it,enjoy it.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:45 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo

    by AsimovLives

    Yeah, but Pandona is a pretty feral place, isn't it? Hardly an heaven to seek escape, is it? Beautiful but dangerous.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:45 p.m. CST

    I mean Pandora

    by AsimovLives

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:52 p.m. CST

    Funny that some reviewers, even outside AICN...

    by AsimovLives

    ... have complained that there's no real explanation about why the humans are so desperate and harsh to get rid of the natives to get the unobtanium, which drives their stay in the planet Pandora.<br><br>From what i read about the proprieties of the unobtanium of the movie, it is pretty clear to me why the humans are so driven tog et it at all costs. but it seems that Cameronforgot that not everybody is as interested and learned about some engineer stuff as most audiences are.<br><br>Basically, as described, Pandora's unobtanium is just a easy to extract and ready to use room temperature superconductor. If evern such a thing would be found in great quantities and easy to get, it would revolutionize mankind the same way that fire did before. The aplications for it would change mankind forever in ways that it's even hard to dream it's full implications. We are talking about every impossible thing to be done today would be easy to achieve. In transportation but not only. It would meant an almost endless source of energy. The aplications would be endless. Nothing would ever be the same again.<br><br>I guess that Cameron took that notion for granted and presumed that audiences would be savvy enough to get it, to the extent he didn't need to elaborate. Apparently, and given some reviews i read from, he over-estimated.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST

    ...seniorspeilbergio, the other thing I like about LeGuin...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...it that she's a writer first, and never techie. A lot of times the world or planet in question is quite primitive...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:57 p.m. CST

    ominus, fucking christ!

    by Ash_Williams

    that was a horrible review. thank god your not a "professional". garbage. (p.s. i didn't read all of it because it was way too long winded. you like the sound of your own voice huh?) of course, like a typical troll you will post this "review" in every fucking talkback here. attention whore

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST

    oh and ominus?

    by Ash_Williams

    comparing cameron to kubrik shows that you are a moron. cameron is shit. kubrik is gold. fuck off

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST

    i am an attention whore

    by ominus

    but its my first review ever.i really really fucking loved the movie,and i want to share my enthusiasm to other people.I dont want for them to miss such a huge event because of idiots like you.cheers.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:10 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives: Becoming The Avatar...

    by Media Messiah

    ...or at least using it as a bridge to enter the world of the Na'vi and Pandora...is the plug-in.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams

    by theKRELL

    Otherwise known as...<P>AICN's ENEMA.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST

    ominus, people are going to pass on avatar

    by Ash_Williams

    because it looks lame. not because of me.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:13 p.m. CST

    ominus

    by AsimovLives

    Don't mind the bollocks, your review was pretty good. And so far, the only indepth review of Avatar. Which is strange, considering you are a poster, not a resident reviewer. You wrote s proper revieww for the movie, instead of those teleghraph nonsenses that both Mr Beaks and Massa wrote. At least with your review i feel i understand the mvoie better. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with you, but of understanding. And i understood. Kudos, my friend. Well done.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:14 p.m. CST

    did you know?

    by Ash_Williams

    that the whole avatar story takes place on the uss enterprise holo-deck? Wesley crusher is the sam worthington role. fact.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:15 p.m. CST

    theKRELL, yes, thank you

    by Ash_Williams

    i never thought of that! i am aicn's enema. i clear out the shit. why are you still here?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives: If You Are In Harmony With Nature...

    by Media Messiah

    ...like the Na'vi...the danger of Pandora is muted, much like Adam and Eve being in harmony with the native life of Eden...before the fall. Step-out of synch with Eden and that harmony, and you may still be physically there, but spiritually and mentally, you are outcast, thus your chances of being in danger from the ecology and animal life increase 100 fold.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST

    JackAsh_Williams...

    by theKRELL

    I accidentally saved your life yesterday...<P>I killed a SHIT eating dog!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:23 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by AsimovLives

    I see. Thanks for the explanation.<br><br>YUou know, what you and me diverse in opinion is that, unliek you, i don't have such a liric vision of nature as you do. I'm more like Werner GHerzog about it, i respect it, even am at awe of it, but i also fear it. Nature is life, but death too.<br><br>I can'th elp but get my approach to view nature from a more scientific basis. and from what i have learned, is that, even if mankind mannaged to pollute and trash adn ruin all the forests and fields and the seas and exterminate the majority of life on Earth, if the remains would be bacteria, nature would still win. Nature is not just the life on Earth that we know today. Nature is EVERYTHING. Even if in the end it's all just a big puddle of mud with only bacteria living in it and nothing else, it's still nature winning.<br>If we pollute and exterminate most life and turn Earth into a place that we can't live in it anymore,a nd became poisonous and harmful to our sustainance and survival, we lose. But our lost is not nature's lost. Nature will persists. Even if it's all just bacteria. It's not a pretty as green fields and luxious forest teeming with higher animals and flowers, but it's still nature and life, a form of life. And as once life evolved from bacteria-like creatures, the same would happen again if all life would be reduced to bacteria due to our interventions. We might be in a hurry, but for nature, millions of years are nothing. Nature is pacient and in no hurry. Beside,s there's no law that says that nature should only exists as life with big creatures like trees and animals. Bacteria is good enough too. In fact, even as of today, 90% of the whole biomass of Earth is composed of subterranium bacteria and other unicellular organisms. Already this world is the kindgom of bacteria, the rest of the other living beings are just guests.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:23 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives: On Unobtainium And Humand Seeking It

    by Media Messiah

    It is very clear why the humans are on Pandora and looking to steal the energy source called Unobtainium, they, the humans, have wrecked the ecology of the Earth, and obviously...surrounding worlds...and have run out of usuable energy sources, hence the reason they came to Pandora. Anyone who can't see that is either a fool, or is in intentional denial about the movie's message about us destroying our environment and the consequences for doing so.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST

    theKRELL

    by Ash_Williams

    your supposed to end that last message with a: zing!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Unobtainium

    by Ash_Williams

    fuck, that makes me cringe every time i hear it! i think i like "hardtogetium" or "cantfinditium" or how about "reallyvaluableium"

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by AsimovLives

    But in The Garden Of Eden (not EDen, Eden is the place where the Garden wa splaced, and not the name of the Garden itself), butin that place, the lamb slept with the lion. Adam and Eve were never in danger of being raped and eaten by the alpha predators of the place on account nothing preyed on anything else. It was the place without dangers. Pandora seems to not be as safe, with or without those interconnections.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Good news, Beaks! They're adding a nine minute rape scene!

    by BurnHollywood

    No gay-bashing, though, so you'll have to make it only the 2nd best of the decade...

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah i love how asimovlives

    by Ash_Williams

    corrects your spelling. and the goe on to make a dozen spelling errors. tee hee!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Thanks BurnHollywood—I just spit out my Guinness

    by blakindigo

    over that last comment. Geezus.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST

    fuck i loved it

    by mutombo

    most fun I had in the cinema in years. Took a few minutes getting past some of the choices they made (why do the na'vi jungle folks look like african tribes?) but once I was in the movie (actually, once I was into the world) I didn't want to get out. Hollywood may be opium for the people, but with films like this the opium tastes oh so good and you love it simply for existing.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Beaks, thats fuckin IT

    by Player01

    This has been a long time, coming, but I will not read one more of your shitty reviews again. I have not had as much fun at the movies for such a long time. AVATAR was an amazing piece of entertainment (and thats all we need), but your review has once again confirmed my opinion that apart from Harry, you are the WORST reviewer on this site.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:19 p.m. CST

    Oh, the humanity

    by Iowa Snot Client

    Mr Beaks is a nihilist. He's "appalled, furious and just not a huge fan of the human race." He's "all too good with the systematic elimination of humankind." And yet, this movie would be more interesting to him if it "had an actual human in it." Thing is, would he recognize an actual human if he saw it?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:26 p.m. CST

    avatar sucks

    by Ash_Williams

    get used to it.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:56 p.m. CST

    So ash you saw Avatar huh?

    by rogueleader66

    Where is your thought provoking insightful review genius?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:59 p.m. CST

    The best review to date.

    by JTStyler

    Go to Dark Horizons and click on recent reviews. Read Garth's Avatar review - best and fairest review of the film out there. Free from hyperbole and bias, he's bang on point with his review.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 6:59 p.m. CST

    The best review to date.

    by JTStyler

    Go to Dark Horizons and click on recent reviews. Read Garth's Avatar review - best and fairest review of the film out there. Free from hyperbole and bias, he's bang on point with his review.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:17 p.m. CST

    rogueleader66, that was it

    by Ash_Williams

    you just read it

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST

    ominus - pretty impressive and detailed review

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Agree with other comments, your review seems to be more thoroughly thought out that either the Beaks or Massa reviews. <p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:26 p.m. CST

    rogueleader

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    Ash Williams comments make Diox look like Stephen Hawking, wouldn't expect anything other than words like "sucks" from him. <p>

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Shut up SithMenace!

    by Orionsangels

    Just because someone didn't like it more than others. It automatically means that his review is the only honest review? Beaks doesn't like Cameron's story or characters. He came in ready to attack.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Archlight hollywood this Saturday Night

    by JeanGrey_X23_lesboSex

    I have my tickets and I'll give you a real review

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:29 p.m. CST

    Orionsangels

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    "Honest" is AICN talkback speech, it has a different meaning here, it means "you share the same belief/opinion with me". <p> Just as words like "truth" or "fact", that are used on this site a lot, actually mean "my opinion".

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:32 p.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi, your kind of an annoying prick

    by Ash_Williams

    your arrogant elitist attitude is what is wrong with 90% of the talkbackers on this site. <p> "Honest" is AICN talkback speech, it has a different meaning here, it means "you share the same belief/opinion with me". <p> as in. "people honestly like avatar" <p> douche

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:50 p.m. CST

    What Ash is saying...

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    Is that he doesn't like Avatar. Just wanted to make sure everyone understands.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:54 p.m. CST

    I'm gonna root for the humans.

    by JuanSanchez

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 7:56 p.m. CST

    Unobtanium is the new Midichlorians

    by Stabby

    You know it's true.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Avatar came, saw, and fucked some eyeballs...

    by Gus Van Rant

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST

    Unobtanium in the movie is the code word

    by ominus

    for blue pussy.But Jake is the lucky bastard who obtained it.Thats why Quaritch is so furious with him.Now that a new take on the story,heh Polyester?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:16 p.m. CST

    PHANTOM MENACE REVIEW!!!WATCH THIS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!

    by TehCreepyThinMan

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:22 p.m. CST

    Blue Pussy

    by RefutetheHype

    usually indicates poor blood circulation. No thanks. I like my pussy pink and strong.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 8:26 p.m. CST

    Cholera's Ghost

    by seniorspeilbergio

    Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't quite clear on his position. lol

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:28 p.m. CST

    So ummmm.....

    by Spottieottiedopaliscious

    This is basically Transformers in 3-D with blue people instead of robots.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:36 p.m. CST

    LOL @ Haters (yeah this is a repost)

    by MandrakeRoot

    HAHAHAHAHA. Face it. You were wrong. Cameron delivered, like usual. Audiences and critics alike are praising this movie as a classic. Film is a VISUAL MEDIUM. Do people keep forgetting that? Not to mention tons of critics and fans have found the story quite satisfying and emotional, because the story here IS more then serviceable, but that is not the point. This will be looked back upon like Star Wars is today, guaranteed. Do you think people love Star Wars for it's brilliant dialogue? "Let the force be with you". Get real, it was the visuals and sense of adventure. Break it down and Star Wars is as cliche as it gets. Avatar is NOT a "wow look at the FX! movie". It uses beautiful imagery to paint gorgeous pictures that say more words then any dialogue could. Massa's review is spot on. I love how the haters like to point out the 83% on RT like it's some sort of failure. HAHAHA! Give me a break, fuck off with that nonsense. And do yourself a favor, check out the Top Critics scores while your over there. Oh wait, what does it say...96%? Oh no shit?...and then head over to MetaCritic, a site that only puts top critics reviews up. Oh what's that? Universal Acclaim? Yeah, fuck off. Cameron has created something here which NO other person on this planet could do. In anyones hands but Cameron this would have been a disastrous failure, but he has made it a monstrous success. It doesn't matter though. Keep doubting Big Jim all you want, your the assholes who look like idiots. There's a reason why he's making the classics and your furiously shanking your fist at a CPU screen. He's now stretched his streak to 7 great films in a row, while continually pushing cinema forward with each one, a true pioneer. Unheard of. But keep hating and convincing yourself the fans are "lying" to themselves. It's obvious that is all your holding onto. Have fun tonight whacking off you losers, anyone with half a brain will be witnessing history.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:36 p.m. CST

    I think AVATAR might be the film event that makes me...

    by Mr. Nice Gaius

    ...part ways with AICN. I have never seen more stupidity on display here than I have in the weeks leading up to the present. And now that the film is finally hitting screens, the simple-minded agendas of these Talkbacks are no longer worth putting up with. This place is no longer worthy of serious film discussion. It has become a harbor for spiteful, hate-trolls who thrive on a pitifully moderated forum.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:41 p.m. CST

    Refute

    by rogueleader66

    Keep those posts coming, you are, entertaining in a really moronic way. Still sad and pathetic, but entertaining....somewhat.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:47 p.m. CST

    Also

    by MandrakeRoot

    Only because Avatar is so mind-blowingly incredible visually do people feel the need to disparage the story. Just about every film that comes out is a remake, sequel, or based on a property with a 10x worse story and script then Avatar. But of course only Avatar gets scrutinized this much, and all of the sudden it's a huge deal. <p> Of course classics like 2001: A Space Odyssey which are incredible mainly for the visuals doesn't get the whole "FX don't make a movie" treatment garbage. And of course there's Jurassic Park. Another film most fans and critics deem a classic...and for what? The FX and action sequences. Talk about a movie with a bare-bones plot, cheesy dialogue, and 2D characters. But does anyone care about that? No, of course not. <p> Some you peoples double standards are just ridiculous. It's obvious Avatar is much more then empty eye candy a la Transformers, 2012, GI Joe, T. Salvation, The Lovely Bones, etc. I mean the reviews alone prove that, as do the Award nominations plus #1 on several lists. If FX equaled praise like Avatars getting then those films would be getting good reviews too, but they're not. Some of you are just clearly annoyed by the hype, while others just are jealous of Cameron, and are now more pissed then ever that the hype was justified, so you feel the need to scrutinize this movie and not see it for what it is. Get off your high-horses and enjoy the fucking movie. Not every film has to be The Godfather. This is 2 1/2 hours of the finest entertainment you've seen in years, and that is a fact.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Meh

    by Second Try

    I'd rather see more Blizzard's cutscenes.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 9:56 p.m. CST

    And to add one more thing...

    by MandrakeRoot

    I know that every fan on this site likes movies that are so-so, or have shit plots but are just fun movies to watch. If your gonna sit there and tell me that everyone on this site only likes high-brow films with intricate plots, witty dialogue, and complex characters, I call BS...I KNOW that is not true. Everyone has those certain films they enjoy the hell of out. You know, the Independence Days, the Speed Racers, the Slithers, etc. But then Avatar comes out and some of you are so predetermined to hate it no matter what, you refuse to just enjoy it unless in your mind it's an amazing A++ film, and can't even enjoy it us good old escapist entertainment, which movies are. I'm not conceding that I think the story is weak, cause I do believe it is utterly perfect for this film. However, I think that even if you are a person who finds the script and characters lacking, you should still be able to appreciate the scope and massive entertainment value of this film. No one does em better then James, and that's a fact.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:01 p.m. CST

    MandrakeRoot dont bother man

    by ominus

    the same people who enjoy star trek because its 'mindless fun',ironically accuse Avatar for 'mindless fun'.go figure.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST

    Creepy

    by RefutetheHype

    That's hilarious! Is that you?

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Wish me luck.

    by RefutetheHype

    I'm about to see AVATAR. We'll see.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:07 p.m. CST

    I hope you will enjoy it Refute

    by ominus

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Refute wont enjoy it

    by rogueleader66

    ALready spent way too much time saying how awful it is without even seeing it, if he..she...whatever comes back and actually admits to liking it, makes them look like a serious asshole. I will be very shocked to see anything other than something along the lines of "It sucked just like I said all along"....wait for it.......

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 10:15 p.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius

    by RICHARD_GERE_RAPED_MY_GERBIL

    AICN has always been like this. Serious movie discussions tend to go on in the Twitch TBs and so forth. TBs for the bigger movies tend to attract the 'Lookatme! Lookatme! FeelmyHATE!' crowd.<p>In short: you're not allowed to leave. It would be like abandoning a burning schoolbus. Don't leave the rest of us to burn!

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:30 p.m. CST

    Just finished watching Jim on Tavis Smiley and he said

    by GQtaste

    People thought I was scared after Titanic that I couldn’t outdo myself and did a bunch of underwater documenties. He stated that wasn’t the case: I already had “my FU money.” So I wasn’t freighted to do another film. How bout that? “My FU money.” He’s got some balls that’s for sure.

  • Dec. 17, 2009, 11:35 p.m. CST

    refute enjoying Avatar

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    There is a better chance of Hitler rising from the dead and marrying Oprah than refute enjoying Avatar

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 1:20 a.m. CST

    TehCreepyThinMan has singlehandedly WON the Talkback

    by blakindigo

    With that post alone, you deserve to be in the pantheon of the greats good sir.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:18 a.m. CST

    Faithfully submitted MY ASS.

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    I've never seen anything like this before. Go watch it and see for yourself.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:42 a.m. CST

    Just got back from seeing AVATAR.

    by Ironhelix

    I have been pretty critical of what I knew about the movie before I saw it. Everything I was worried about was totally warranted. The story is tired. The characters are about as thin as they can possibly be. The 3D was unnecessary. Having said that, I DID enjoy it, but this film is NOWHERE near anything resembling a "game changer". I feel like I got my money's worth, and I was entertained, but I have seen far better sci-fi in my days. I am still not sold on 3D either. Wearing the glasses is a pain in the ass, and it does dull the overall look of the film. I still don't feel 3D is worth it.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:52 a.m. CST

    Fuck you, Beaks

    by OptimusCrime

    I've had it with your political asides in your reviews. "I didn't like this movie, wait a second, the director might hate Americans! On second thought, this movie is great. Fuck America."<P>Go to hell, you piece of shit.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:53 a.m. CST

    Although I do agree with the bulk of this review

    by OptimusCrime

    Still hate Beaks though.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 3:20 a.m. CST

    Ironhelix: My thoughts exactly

    by superfleish76

    It was alright, but I will forget this movie in a month. There was not one element of the plot that felt the slightest bit original or surprising and all of the characters were paper thin. I didn't hate it, but I doubt I'll ever see it again.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 3:24 a.m. CST

    Ash_Williams, are you daft?

    by AsimovLives

    I didn't corrrected any spellings from Media Messiah, all i did was to point out an incorrect NOTION. There's a fucking difference. You really need to start thinking once in a while. It would do you good.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 3:44 a.m. CST

    HATER = The New Fanboy

    by hippie_killer

    And it's a simple as that, I think. A few years back, what brought so many of you people joy was to go out, fall plum fucking in love with a really entertaining movie or television show, immerse yourself in the world the writers and / or directer created, think about it, talk about it with your friends, and make new friends who share that common interest. And this wasn't just true for the real A+++ shit either. You like what you like, and maybe you liked that Starship Troopers was a little goofy. Maybe you really dug Robocop's dark humor. And hell. We all know that when you strip it of the GROUNDBREAKING motion control effects, fucking STAR WARS was nothing more than a formulaic B-movie. But it still spoke to you. It had HEART. <p> Not. Any. Fucking. More. <p> I'd love to see what some of you cankerous fucking cocksmiths would say about the motherfucking SEARCHERS if it came out today. I have no doubt that you'd hate it. You want to hate. Everything. Because that's what's fun for you. What REALLY brings you joy in life is to feel like you're one of the special people who's above it all. You get more pleasure from reflexively hating a movie, YEARS before it comes out even, than you do from planting your ass in a chair for a couple hours and watching the motherfucking colors fly by. <p> What a sad, pathetic, lonely, joyless existence that must be. But hey, you like what you like, and you like hating everything. So who am I to judge. <p> Fuck that. Avatar is an objectively spectacular movie going experience -- in all likelihood, it's probably THE MOST enjoyable cinema event to have happened in your shitty little lifetime. If you really didn't like this movie, or if it brings you more pleasure to sit at a keyboard and spew baby shit about how the characters were "too 1 dimensional," or that it was "too dirivative," then you are a joyless oozing pustule on anus of society. You are broken inside. You have failed to experience life to the fullest. <p> Have fun with that.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:09 a.m. CST

    Game Changer

    by Todaysfate

    The term "Game Changer" seems to be a real problem here. When digital cameras caused Kodak to stop producing kodachrome, the game changed. When typewritters went the way of the dinosaur due to the invetention of the word processor, the game has changed. If even one filmmaker decides to pick up that special camera Cameron invented for filming within a vitual world, or decides to put a single actor in that special helmet created for capturing the facial expressions of the actors. Then GUESS WHAT? The GAME HAS CHANGED. The "GAME" is played by the people who make movies not the people who watch them.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:21 a.m. CST

    HornOrSilk

    by hippie_killer

    "Defend" a movie? <p>I'm not defending a goddamn thing here. I'm not even responding to your opinion, because I don't care. I don't give a flying fuck about what you think, or why you think this movie isn't "adult" enough or whatever. <p> Feel important. Feel smart and edgy and different. The rest of us are going to go out and have some fucking fun with our friends.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:25 a.m. CST

    hippie_killer

    by Todaysfate

    Here here.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:31 a.m. CST

    Mr. Nice Gaius

    by AsimovLives

    Don't leave. Who would then do the "THE POWER OF BAY COMPELS YOU" mantra at the Bay related talkbacks? Nobody does it better. It wouldn't be the same without you.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:36 a.m. CST

    Dont Like Avatar?

    by Todaysfate

    Can AVATAR be as bad as "Australia" was? Think about everything Australia was. Because thats the kind of movie Cameron set out to make. I think he made exactly what he wanted to make, and anyone who doesn't like it simply doesn't like this kind of movie period. Because AVATAR is simply the best movie of it's kind. What kind is that? Well .. its apparently the kind some people don't like. So what. Move on. No reason no "defend" why you don't like it. I won't question why you don't like it. Maybe you'll like Sherlock Holmes or The Squeakquel better. There are a couple of movies breaking ground and changing games. Ohhh yeah.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:37 a.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi

    by AsimovLives

    Give a chance to Refute. When i went to see the latest Rambo movie, i was convinced i would fuckignhate it. And then, i ended up really liking it. Far surpassed even my best expectations. So, you never know. Maybe he went in as a basher and came out a believer. It has happened to every one of us before, don't you think?

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:51 a.m. CST

    I decided to suck Murdochs cock..

    by Gabba-UK

    And I paid to see Avatar out of respect for Jim's previous work. And Mr. Beaks summed it perfectly. Technical tour-de-force, very weak and perfectly predictable story. And The Abyss is STILL JC's best film. I am telling friends they should see it but only because it's unlike anything they've seen before. But storywise don't expect much.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 5:05 a.m. CST

    HornOrSilk

    by MandrakeRoot

    My god your a douche. Let me guess, your Retard Nerd Rage right? That's painfully obvious. You think it's sad that someone defends a film "religiously", while you've posted on Avatar talkbacks more then pretty much anyone else. <p> It's so obvious you are obsessed with this movie more then any fanboy on here, and it's sad because your only trying to convince yourself you were right about this movie by making negative claim after claim. If you really thought it was awful and hated it you would not be here, and would have forgetten about the film and move on with your life. Seriously man, this is JUST A MOVIE. There is no need to get this involved in butthurt over a movie that does not interest you. At least fans who defend this film are here because they actually like it, what's your excuse? If you get so pissed that people like a goddamn movie, why do you click on the talkbacks? <p> And that's another thing, why do you give a shit if people like this movie? I mean it's just a goddamn movie, who cares who likes it or hates it. You could think it's the worst movie ever made but that doesn't mean everyone has to feel that way. Face it, there is rarely a film that everyone loves or hates in unison, why do you feel that Avatar should be that film? And you know as well as everyone else on here there is MUCH, MUCH worse out there. Hell at least Cameron is trying to advance technology and make original films (yes, despite a familiar story it IS an original film). I dont know, I'll never understand how someone could devote so much time to putting down a movie just cause people like it. You favorite film could be Batman & Robin for all I care, but I'm not act like a douche because of it...to each his own.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 5:18 a.m. CST

    And after seeing the film...

    by MandrakeRoot

    It really is one of the most unique films to come out of Hollywood in a long long time. And not just because of the "oohs" and "ahhs" and "pretty colors". It's because the advanced technology allows a story to be told in a way that it never has been told before. The technology that created Pandora also creates the magical moments that happen on Pandora that are more artistic and emotional then any live-action set or witty dialogue could ever convey. This is a very moving film. Yes the story isn't the most original, yes some of the characters are 2D and some the dialogue is cheesy. But hell, Star Wars was the same way, cheesy dialogue, 2D characters, familiar story. People loved it because it brought them places they could only imagine before hand. It was a classic tale told effectively, but it would have been nothing with the visuals, just like 2001: ASO. <p> Cameron really is a pioneer of the film industry. He's pushed the visual medium of film farther then it's ever been, and has set a benchmark for adventure films. Is it the greatest film ever? No! Is it close? No! Is it was one of the most entertaining and awe-inspiring films ever? Yes! Give the onslaught of awful blockbusters of recent, Avatar is nothing less then a breath of fresh air. It is essential that anyone with any interest in cinema and the sci-fi/adventure genres sees this film. Even if you find it mindless, it will be the most mindless fun you've had in years. Not every movie has to be flawless all the way through, and I know everyone here has a fair share of so-so movies that they love. Avatar deserves a chance from anyone despite how skeptic they are. This film will be remembered as a milestone in cinema and as one hell of a great adventure film. I saw it with a packed crowd and it got a hefty round of applause at the end, and a well deserved one at that.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST

    bang on

    by judgepickles

    Ya know, I SHOULD be completely taken with Avatar, as I worked on the film for a big chunk of last year, but I have to say, that I agree with Mr Beaks note for note. A lot of the sequences and ideas felt dated, and it was actually the awful writing that continually pulled me out of the story, and not the perfectly executed visuals. The first 30 minutes of District 9 had more originality and heart than will ever have.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Saw it last night ....

    by Magic01273

    I'm a regular movie-going 30 year old who enjoys film from numerous genres. And I have to say, Avatar absolutely was one of the best cinematic experiences of my life. The story was great, the characters were believable and visuals were truley heart-stopping. I'm not going to deny that at times the dialogue wasn't a little corny but what I will say is that was definately the exception and not the rule for this movie. As for people critisizing the acting (most of them probably before they have actually seen the film) must be smokin' something BAD. How Cameron managed to get these amazing, human performances out of the actors in these circumstances is nothing short of a miracle. Zoe Saldana was truly, achingly brillaint. Those saying they will rent this?... well, I laugh to myself a little bit at what you will in fact be denying yourself - though I'm fairly confident that 99% of these people are simply trying to sound awesome on a talkback. The film recieved a standing ovation at the end - something that simply does not happened in the UK (we're usually a pretty reserved bunch). So if you want to get hung up on [literally] a couple of slightly clunky lines - and you feel this in someway justifies not seeing the film, be my guest. It really will be your loss.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:21 a.m. CST

    Saw it last night ....

    by Magic01273

    I'm a regular movie-going 30 year old who enjoys film from numerous genres. And I have to say, Avatar absolutely was one of the best cinematic experiences of my life. The story was great, the characters were believable and visuals were truley heart-stopping. I'm not going to deny that at times the dialogue wasn't a little corny but what I will say is that was definately the exception and not the rule for this movie. As for people critisizing the acting (most of them probably before they have actually seen the film) must be smokin' something BAD. How Cameron managed to get these amazing, human performances out of the actors in these circumstances is nothing short of a miracle. Zoe Saldana was truly, achingly brillaint. Those saying they will rent this?... well, I laugh to myself a little bit at what you will in fact be denying yourself - though I'm fairly confident that 99% of these people are simply trying to sound awesome on a talkback. The film recieved a standing ovation at the end - something that simply does not happened in the UK (we're usually a pretty reserved bunch). So if you want to get hung up on [literally] a couple of slightly clunky lines - and you feel this in someway justifies not seeing the film, be my guest. It really will be your loss.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:23 a.m. CST

    Asimov

    by rogueleader66

    The big difference with refute is he has been preaching up and down and left and right that Avatar is already a failure, slamming anything and everything about the movie without even having seen it. If he came back here and said that he even remotely enjoyed it, it would make him look like the biggest asshole in the world. I bet that even if he did wind up liking it, none of us will ever know it, he will come back here and tell us that it sucked and how he was right all along, just wait and see. I will be very shocked if we get anything other than complete negativity.<P>People like that cannot stand to be proven wrong and will never let anyone know if they have been. What I find interesting is this burning need they have for this movie to fail, like they have a personal stake in its outcome. If you read any posts yesterday, all they kept saying was "See Avatar is a failure, we won". WTF did they "win" and why is it so important to them? It's a fucking movie, at the end of the day, life will not change because of it, yet they act like their very existence hinges on the movie's success or failure. Its truly truly sad.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Asi maybe you are right , Refute what did you think

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    And Asi I probably give Refute more of a chance than I do for you and the next Star Trek. <p> There is a better chance of ... well just about anything (yes, including time travel) than you watching the next ST with an open mind. <p> Hope you prove me wrong

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:35 a.m. CST

    I hate to admit it Asimov

    by rogueleader66

    But he has a point my friend. You cannot blame anyone for thinking that considering how you feel about the last film bro. BTW Asi, saw District 9...freaking awesome, my favorite film of 2009...looked better than most films that cost 4 times as much, just gotta see Moon now, i have it on DVD just have not had a chance to sit down and watch it yet.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:39 a.m. CST

    Seeing Avatar tomorrow, District 9 is my favourite for 09

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    But also yet to see Hurt Locker

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 7:42 a.m. CST

    Hurt Locker

    by rogueleader66

    Need to see that too Bigelow is an awesome director.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Mr. beaks - less bullshit next time

    by Vision

    And more relevant to the point stuff (and no damn spoilers you idiot)

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 9:59 a.m. CST

    MNG - AND LEAVE ME HERE ALONE WITH THE CRAZIES?

    by BringingSexyBack

    No. You're not going anywhere. We have to see this through to the end.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Good review up until "The Abyss is his masterpiece"

    by DiamondJoe

    I first saw the Abyss when it came out, and I was 11. Thought it was great. Watched it again 2 months ago - FUCKING SACK OF SHITE. Infantile, babyish, cliched, woefully sanctimonious & preachy. Its only redeeming features are Harris & Biehn. Any movie critic who claims with a straight face that The Abyss is better than The Terminator has just taken a flamethrower to his credibility.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 10:24 a.m. CST

    Good review up until "The Abyss is his masterpiece"

    by DiamondJoe

    I first saw the Abyss when it came out, and I was 11. Thought it was great. Watched it again 2 months ago - FUCKING SACK OF SHITE. Infantile, babyish, cliched, woefully sanctimonious & preachy. Its only redeeming features are Harris & Biehn. Any movie critic who claims with a straight face that The Abyss is better than The Terminator has just taken a flamethrower to his credibility.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 11:17 a.m. CST

    Why do people personalize their movies?

    by TheJokesOnUs

    I never understood that. Who gives a shit if some dumbass you'll never meet doesn't like what you like? Does that mean you like it less? More? Does someone else's opinion secretly hold that much worth to you? For the "haters", if this movie bombs... so what? You're winning big at the Hollywood Stock Exchange? How does it benefit you, aside from the fact that studios won't be as willing to do genre pictures, personal projects or foot the bill for new technology? For the "fanboys", why are you so defensive? Do you know Jim? Is he your step-dad? I mean, can you admit to anything being flawed? A lot of people, both critics and civilians have been talking about the lame-o dialogue and the message as subtle as an 8th grade book report. That doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. But can you call a spade a spade? In the end, everyone just take some Valium and chill out.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Wow! An AICN Reviewer w/ The Courage To Admit T2 SUCKED ASS

    by LaserPants

    Bravo!<br><br>That said, I think AVATAR, raging cliches and all, looks like a fine time at the movies. I'll definitely gonna see an IMAX 3D version for the full effect.<br><br>I suppose I'm not the only one who noticed the irony of an anti-technology / anti-imperialist / anti-capitalist message being broadcast through a technologically driven / globally marketed / ultra-capitalist film that's rumored to have cost upwards of $500 zillion dollars to make?<br><br>Either way, Avatar looks like a fun, visually stunning , albeit obvious / pandering movie and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Mister Nice Gaius!!!

    by ebonic_plague

    Trust me, I know EXACTLY how you feel, I think I posted the exact same thing a month or two ago, but as you told me then, there aren't many of the old guard left here, don't succumb to the dismal tide that's swamping this place. I have to sit out these Avatar TB's for the most part because the sheer ass-hattery on display from the so-called "movie lovers" fandom makes me want to go basement-to-basement like Neville in I AM LEGEND, but if the only worthwhile posters on this site start dropping off from disgust, there's nothing left but typos and spittle. And then it's just CHUD. And if there's one thing I'll consider a worthwhile cause, it's going down with the ship to thwart the birth of another CHUD.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 1:44 p.m. CST

    Miyamoto_Musashi

    by AsimovLives

    I see every movie with an open mind. That's the point. But i'm savvy enough already to see the signs and the writing on the wall. Still, some mvoies have been pleasant suprises for me, movie which inically i didn't think much of them. Perfume blew my midn away, i wasn't expecting it to be that good. The latest Rambo movie, i liked it way beyond my wildest dreams. I was pretty negative about it, and i came out liking it very mucyh and with a renewedr faith and trust on Sly Stallone. and Jar Jar Abrasm's Shit Trek is a shit movie, no matter how the fanboys defend it. Having an open midn doesn't mean to swallow up any bullshit thrown my way. That's the fucking point. The same reasons i was pleasantly suprised with the new Rambo is the same reason i know Shit Trek is fuckign bullshit. Understand that.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 1:47 p.m. CST

    rogueleader66

    by AsimovLives

    I had a feeling you would like District 9. I'm glad you really loved it, it's truly a movie that deserves all the accolades it gets. and then some.<br>And MOON is another of the really good ones. might need a bit of a certain mood to set into it, but man, to deny it's a good movie is foolhardy, if you ask me.<br>And i'm certain you will like The Hurt Locker as well,a nd have your lovoe for the lovely talented Kathryn Bigelow confirmed. If ever she gets a nominator for oscar of best director, and even beter, if she wins, it will be one of the rare ocasions when really justice was done by the academy.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST

    About the "Game Changing" thing

    by AsimovLives

    As some has said before, i think the expression "game changer" whenthey were talking about AVATAR was used in xontext of new emerging filmaking techniques. Not about the nature of cinema itself, but of filmmaking tecniques which will alow certain things to be realsied in film which once were either too hard, too expensive or just impossible. It's to do with a new use for CGI, motion capture and 3D to tell a tale. I never took the idea that the "game changing" was the filmmakers of AVATAR boasting that the movie would be a complete new paradigm on the way movies would tell their stories. Seems there is a bit of a confusion about this,a dn this confusion might have raised from geeks who misudnerstood what ameron and his team said, or that some dumb ignorant marketing idiot also misunderstod it and tried to use the expression as a way to build hype for the movie.<br>The game is about the people who make mvoies and the way they make movies and how things migth change due to the technology developed specifically for AVATAR. It's not about us as viewers.

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:08 p.m. CST

    And i have to really say this:

    by AsimovLives

    All this people who are complaining and bitching about the story being cliché, the characters 2 dimentional and the unobtanium being silly, i just hope, i really hope, that none of this people are the same who, before, have been all appologetic and defensive of Jar Jar Abrams's Retard Trek and have defended it's cliched plot, 2 dimentional characters and the silliness of the mvoie's red matter. I really hope that those who bitch about AVATAR are not the same who have staedfastedly defended the shit in fucking RETARD TREK. I'm so curious to see if there's inhere one such hypocrite motherfucker!

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 2:11 p.m. CST

    How to detect a retard:

    by AsimovLives

    It's he who is bashing Avatar for the same reason and things he previously defended Jar Jar Abrams's BULLSHIT TREK. I already detected one such: Mr Beaks. He who couldn't stop kissing the ass of Jar Jar Abrams and his abomination of his fucking movie. And for the same reasons he sucked Jar Jar's cock, he now complains about Cameron. Who are the others?

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 4:46 p.m. CST

    Asimov

    by hippie_killer

    Glad to see he's still here bashing Trek. Seriously buddy, doesn't that get old?

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 6:27 p.m. CST

    hippie_killer

    by AsimovLives

    Never!

  • Dec. 18, 2009, 6:28 p.m. CST

    Good review, Beaks

    by CherryValance

    I pretty much agree except for the talking yourself into loving it thing. Don't do that.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 12:36 a.m. CST

    Hippie-K, Yay, Motherducker

    by RefutetheHype

    Here's the poop, Hippie-Killer. I don't want to hate a movie. But you are working a shopworn paradigm, as are Rogue et al. What you see as my inability to plant my ass in a seat and enjoy two hours of colors, to me is a fight about what kind of entertainment I value.<p><p>I plant my ass in a seat every time I watch a movie I love, and there are plenty of those. Whether the movie is GHOSTBUSTERS or THE KILLING FIELDS. I love movies, cinema, film, flicks and whatever else you want to call them.<p><p>But lately I have noticed that more and more movies are being made that in no way challenge the status quo.<p><p>I want to THINK. I get off on using my brain. You know how they say to excite a man you have to jerk off his dick but to excite a woman you have to jerk off her mind? It's true. I can't just sit there and have my eyeballs raped. No matter how good the "sex" is, rape is rape. And that's how AVATAR makes me feel. I felt assaulted but never invited. I felt bludgeoned but never wooed. I felt like the movie was a big dumb caveman knocking me in the head with a hammer and telling me UG YOO WILLA LIKEY ME when I wanted chocolate and flowers and a tuxedo and a corsage and a horse-drawn carriage taking me to the prom. I wanted the skilled hands of a lover, and I got the dumb pawing of a drunk freshman.<p><p>AVATAR felt like it was a movie made by boys who were asked what they think a girl's movie ought to be. "It should have blue butterflies!" It felt like it was written by a bunch of eight year olds who've seen some action movies. "GET TO THE CHOPPER!"<p><p>Is it anti-American and populist pro-Tealiban? Yeah, it totally is. But that's not its biggest failing. It's slow and dullwitted and clumsy. There are so many moments where the visuals are like Michael Jackson clutching his penis in concert - there's a lot of fireworks, but the movie really is grasping at nothing.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 12:48 a.m. CST

    AVATAR = FAIL, BTW - THE NUMBERS ARE FINALLY IN

    by RefutetheHype

    Midnight Showing Box Office: The Twilight Saga: New Moon $26.3 million Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince $22.2 million The Dark Knight $18.5 million Avatar $3.7 million THE NUMBERS ARE IN.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Avatar characters

    by Poppyv

    Your comments about getting to the betrayal part show the fact that like most people these days waiting for something is not something you wish to do. I feel sorry for you. At no point did I nor the people with me find this movie dragging. The opening is Jake grieving for a brother he felt had more to live for them him and whose life was taken from him by a senseless act of greed. (This is important for later on) The slow building up of the characters and their involvement with the Na'vi is important you do not change overnight. Yes the CGi is amazing but when the movie ended I could not believe I had sat there for almost 3 hours. Even when I knew what was coming I wanted to see how it would happen. Characters have to act in character and each of them did. I found myself comparing the film to so many situations here right now and in the past. For me a brilliant film that surpassed my expectations as it also did for my friends and we have wide ranging tastes in films as a general rule when one of us loves a movie there will be someone who will pick holes out of it. Personally I loved it I loved that it made me think about exactly what we are doing to the planet, yes there were some moments I laughed at it and also some comparisons to Alien (Sigourney is too powerful an actress for her other character not to be in my mind) I whole heartedly reccommend this film to everyone. Go with an open mind and think about what the movie is trying to say.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Are you Fing Kidding Me!!!

    by OrangeCrush

    by ReportAbuse "His undeniably pretty Pandora ... distracts from the inherent contradiction of a reported $300-$500 million Hollywood enterprise that casually berates America’s industrial complex." America's Industrial Complex?? My god if that isn't an Oxymoron I have no clue what is. America doesn't have an Industrial Complex anymore. Its been pissed away for the last 50 years and all we have left are a few misc companies printing t-shirts. If there is one aspect of the USA that is fair game its this. Hell even the majority of products that say made in the U.S.A. are actually just assembled here and are still made with parts of products from other countries. American Industrial Complex, LOL. Oh man that's a good one.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Popp

    by RefutetheHype

    I have no problem waiting for something, but they could easily have trimmed an hour off the story by starting it as the corporation is attacking the Na'Avi full-board and lost nothing. What did we miss? Character development? I sure didn't see that in the first hour.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 11:22 a.m. CST

    RefutetheHype = Clueless

    by OrangeCrush

    Sorry RefutetheHype but just because Avatar only pulled in 3+ million in its midnight opening doesnt mean it failed. All this shows is that you know absolutely nothing in regards to these matters. I am Legend only pulled in 1.7 Million in its midnight opener and Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring only pulled in 4 million. Hell I am Legend went on to break the December opening weekend record ($77.2 million). Your obviously not only clueless but also biased.

  • Dec. 19, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST

    The dissenters are a small group

    by AlwaysThere

    Let them have their circle jerk.

  • Dec. 20, 2009, 12:07 a.m. CST

    AVATAR audiences are a small group, too

    by RefutetheHype

  • Dec. 21, 2009, 3:22 a.m. CST

    Mr Beeks expressed EXACTLY how I felt

    by NightAvatar

    Gotta say this review expressed my exact feelings when viewing the film on opening day here in Norway. I went with a bunch of work-buddies who all loved it, giving it top marks. I liked it, and applaud it on a technical level, but the story was SO FREAKING ANNOYING! Anybody else feel this was as "Way of the Gun" director put stated in that film's commentary, teaching us that killing people us totally cool as long as they're "the other side". Notice how easy it was for helicopter girl to blow away her own army buddies as soon as she decided to side with Jake? Freaking disgusting.

  • Dec. 21, 2009, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Enjoyed it and all...

    by DanielKurland

    And yes, the visuals were amazing, and I can appreciate that, but I mostly agree with Beaks here. Dances With Wolves in Space. This just wasn`t my sort of movie, but I mean, I don`t like Braveheart, but I can acknowledge that that`s still a good film.

  • Dec. 22, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Beaks is right on the money here

    by UCB Agent1

    I sometimes disagree with Beaks, but he summed up my problems with Avatar nicely. I didn't want the film to bore me, but it did. One or two great action shots can't make up for a dull, dull, dull middle section of the film.