Capone here again. I didn't really have a chance to read some of the Talkbacks after I posted this interview; I pretty much went right into BNAT after the post. But when I finally got around to checking out the response, I noticed a couple of you made mention of the fact that I should have asked Yauch about the inclusion of the Beastie Boys' tune "Sabotage" in a key scene in STAR TREK. And you were absolutely right. What's funny about that is that I distinctly remember humming that tune while I was writing up questions for Yauch the night before our talk specifically because I had watched STAR TREK three or four times after the DVD came out, so the song was entrenched in my head. The question was so right in front of me that I didn't even see it.
So I went back to the still-on-vacation Yauch and asked him. Here is the exchange. His answer is fantastic and wonderfully detailed.
Capone: I was wondering what your thoughts were on having the Beastie Boys' song "Sabotage" featured so prominently in the STAR TREK movie earlier this year. Did you know it was going to be used in the movie, and what did you think of the way it was used?
Adam Yauch: There was a long period that we didn't allow our music to be used in films at all. I equated it with letting our music be used in TV commercials, and we had a pretty strict band policy against both. I just felt like it was a sell-out move. The policy started in the early '90s when all of these films came out that had the song from the big group, and they always did a video for the song that used clips from the movie, and it all just seemed like this shitty sell-out, cross-promotion thing. It was basically just a TV commercial for the movie. During that time, we even got approached by Scorsese once about using a song of ours in a film that he was a producer on, he wrote to us and asked about it, but the policy was strict and we said no. It was nothing against that film, it was just an across-the-board rule we had.
More recently, after making films and trying to clear music for them, I came to feel that letting a song be used in a film is not the same as letting it be used in a TV commercial. There are good uses of songs in films that are creative and entertaining, that work for the film and the song. I often think of "Jumpin' Jack Flash" in MEAN STREETS as the prefect example of an incredible use of a song in a film. Recently, in the last few years, the band changed our policy. We decided that we would look at the proposed uses and think about them when we get a request rather than having a blanket "No", like we do with TV commercials.
When they first contacted us about using "Sabotage" in STAR TREK, I thought it sounded cheesy and was hesitant, but a friend of ours who was organizing all of the music for the film, George Drakoulias, flew out from LA to NY to visit us at O-Scope and show us the clip. I also got an email from J.J. Abrams saying how much he loved the song, and how well he felt it worked in the context of the film. He liked the idea that hundreds of years after our time is gone, the Beastie Boys is what Captain Kirk is listening to. Anyway, we saw the clip and all liked it, so we gave them permission to use it in the film.
And in case you missed it, here's the rest of our talk from last week:
Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
In July of last year, I was fortunate enough to get to talk to the Beastie Boys' very own MCA, Adam Yauch, about his total blast of a street ball doc GUNNIN' FOR THAT #1 SPOT. During the course of our conversation, we got to talking about Oscilloscope Laboratories, a production name that Yauch used almost jokingly on various Beasties' video projects and pretty much anything he had a hand in. But with GUNNIN', Oscilloscope became a film production company, which in the last year and a half has transformed into a full-blown distribution house putting out some of the best films I've seen in the last year or so in theaters and DVD. Currently in theaters is the Lab's critically praised THE MESSENGER, and before that, Oscilloscope released great documentaries such as FLOW, DEAR ZACHERY, FRONTRUNNERS, SCOTT WALKER: 30 CENTURY MAN, BURMA VJ, THE GARDEN, UNMISTAKEN CHILD, and NO IMPACT MAN. With features, they have distributed last year's devastating WENDY & LUCY, TREELESS MOUNTAIN, as well as THE MESSENGER. Take a look at their ever-growing catalog to get a sense of what they have in store for us next year.
It was clear from my talk with Yauch last year that Oscilloscope was something he wanted to see grow and eventually be in the position to become a successful indie studio as well. And since we spoke, it has become one of the most successful distributors of indie film around. Oscilloscope just launched a really cool subscription service called "The Circle of Trust", which allows people who pay a $150 annual fee to receive the next 10 Oscilloscope DVDs in the mail even before the titles are available for purchase via traditional outlets. For those of you with poor math skills, that's $15 per disc. Subscribers also get half off the Lab's back catalog. Just seeing what they have on tap for the coming year, I'm particularly excited as hell to see Jules Dassin's sexy 1959 sexually raw THE LAW (marking the first time Oscilloscope has dipped into the archival business) and Michel Gondry's documentary THE THORN IN THE HEART.
Of course, Yauch and his team were pulling together this program at the same time Yauch was recovering from salivary gland cancer surgery and treatment. The last I'd heard from Yauch about his condition, things were looking very good. In October, he sent out an email to fans letting them know that his treatment seems to have made him cancer free and that he was continuing to live healthy and taking it easy. He hasn't really given many interviews about his condition since then...until now. Granted, a couple other outlets have interviewed him about the Oscilloscope DVD program in recent weeks, but none of them really got him to talk about his health issues. So here's the great MCA talking about indie film, music, healthy living, and a host of other very cool things. Yauch is quickly becoming one of my favorite people, and it's always fun to chat with him. The interview begins with me listening to some of the funkiest on-hold music I've every heard. Enjoy Adam Yauch…
Capone: You guys have great on-hold music.
Adam Yauch: Oh yeah.
Capone: I don’t know what it is, but it was crazy and sounded cool.
AY: Yeah, I put a lot of weird stuff on there. It was just an old iPod that I put a bunch of stuff on. It has Balinese music and all kinds of things, so I don’t know what was playing when you were on hold [Laughs].
Capone: I couldn’t even tell you what instruments were being played. It’s good talking to you again, first of all. You probably have no recollection of this, because I’m sure I didn’t make any impression, but I actually ran into you at SXSW earlier this year. You were just hanging out in the back of a room between panels, I think. Were you there like scouting out films?
AY: I definitely was. I’m sure I would recognize you by face, but I’m terrible with names.
Capone: Well, that was the only time we have ever met in person, so yeah the last time we talked was on the phone as well when your documentary was coming out. First of all, how are you? How is your health these days?
AY: [laughs] I’m doing good. I’m in Hawaii for the whole month of December. It’s really nice. I went out and watched the surfers today. The surf is huge, people are saying it's the biggest surf they’ve had in 10 years. So I was out there watching them tow in at Jaws, and it was pretty amazing.
Capone: The last I think anyone had heard from you was the beginning of October when you sent out that e-mail to everybody just letting them know. It sounded like you had accomplished your goal in terms of health.
AY: Yeah, I have been trying to send out some e-mails along the way to say what’s up to people.
Capone: So everything continues to be good on that front?
AY: Yeah. With these things, you don’t know for sure for years and years, but I feel good. I feel healthy.
Capone: I had a ticket for Lollapalooza earlier this year, so I definitely missed you back in August. I had never seen you guys play and that was going to be my first shot, so hopefully you will come back to Chicago.
AY: Yeah, hopefully we'll be back out there soon.
Capone: So let's talk about this transition from turning Oscilloscope from your own little personal production--I don’t know what you would call it--this little label you used to throw on the front of some of your works to an actual distribution arm and one that really seems to be getting movies out there. When I got the list of all of the films that Oscilloscope had distributed, I have seen every one of them and they all played at different places and I mean I was able to review them all and the documentaries and the features. I was really happy to see that, so talk a little bit about making that transition.
AY: That's great to hear. At first, Oscilloscope was just the name of my recording studio in New York City. That's where Beastie Boys made our last three albums, the Bad Brains last record was made there, and some other things as well. And then I started a production company through the course of doing music videos and some films, and the name carried over from there and became the name of the production company as well. That’s what you are talking about that you saw. That was the name that you were seeing on some videos and films that I was making.
But for a long time I'd also had this idea brewing in the back of my head of starting up a film distribution company. I think that idea kind of came out of growing up around so many indie record labels. I like going to film festivals and seeing films, and sometimes I would see interesting films that never got released. So that was part of the inspiration too. And part of it was also that a lot of film distribution companies seemed stiff, and distant from what they were doing, rather than being a part of it the way that indy record labels were. It just kind of seemed to me like the way that indie record labels ran had a different vibe than the way that film distribution companies ran.
So I had this idea to start a film distribution company that was structured a little more like an indie record label. And about 2 years ago it just felt like the right time to do it. I asked David Fenkel, who was over at ThinkFilm at the time, if he would be interested in coming over and starting it with me, and he was into it. So we got it going. At that point Oscilloscope expanded from being just a production company and recording studio into also being a distribution company.
Capone: I’m sure you have access to a certain number of films that wouldn't otherwise come out, and I was wondering if the distribution business was born out of that frustration of seeing these great movies and going them not finding a home anywhere or a way to get out there. You figured you would just take it upon yourself to at least put a few of them out there.
AY: Yeah, that was certainly part of it, to help some films get out there that wouldn’t otherwise get seen, but the intention was also to ramp the company up over a period of time, and eventually be able to release bigger films as well. So that’s certainly part of the thinking too.
Capone: Are any of the films that are presently out there or available, are any of those ones that are actual productions from the company or are you strictly distribution?
AY: The first film that we put out GUNNIN' FOR THAT #1 SPOT was produced through the company, but no there is nothing that we have produced, apart from that, that we've released to date. It's certainly a goal. From the outset I hoped that we would be able to combine the distribution part with the production side, and at some point be making films to put out, but I think that will come together when the time is right.
Capone: THE MESSENGER is out right now, and I loved it and got a chance to talk to [writer-director] Oren Moverman and [actor] Ben Foster when they came through town. To me, that’s a mainstream film, or at least the closest you've come to putting one out, with known names headlining it. And it’s a topical film, which I know a lot of the works you guys are putting out are.
AY: It’s just a great film, and I don’t think that it would be getting the attention that it deserves had somebody else put it out. There were other companies that were interested in putting it out, but not really getting behind it. So I'm glad that we were able to be involved with it. I think we've been able to help give it the attention that the film deserves.
Capone: Then I also noticed on a list of things that were maybe coming out at some point in the future that you have even now gotten into putting out that movie THE LAW, which is an archival film. How did you get the rights to put that thing out?
AY: That was also part of the idea from the outset of the company. Part of the plan was that we would distribute classic films, and THE LAW was just a great one that we were lucky enough to get. It’s a Jules Dassin film that hadn’t been properly released in the United States. It’s got a great cast and is a great film, and we are excited to be involved with putting it out. We have our eyes on some other great classics too.
But certainly part of the idea behind the company from the outset was to release classic films as well as new ones, to do foreign as well as domestic, and to release documentaries as well as narratives. The main thread between all of these different types of films was just to keep it to films that we really love. Not just going after marketable films, but to really try and build a library of films that we love, and hopefully that will translate over time and people will start to identify the logo as a company that actually cares about what they are doing, one that's putting out interesting films.
Capone: Yeah, now how hands on have you been in picking the films? Does everybody get a vote there, or do you bring films to the table usually?
AY: Everybody gets a vote, but I do have veto power.
[Both Laugh]
AY: Some films I find and some they find. If they like something they show it to me, and if i like a film, I show it to them. We pass things around and discuss them. At the end of the day, I'm really deciding what films we do or don’t release, but I definitely listen to my guys and hear what they like or what they care about or why they like a film, but at the end of the day, I guess I am to blame if people see our films and they hate them.
[Both Laugh]
Capone: In terms of criteria for picking films, a lot of the documentaries are on topics that are very sort of socially relevant, but then you also have things like DEAR ZACHARY, which is probably the most criminally overlooked film of last year, certainly by the Academy and then you can kind of work your way down from there. But it seems like some of the more socially relevant things seem like things that you might go after, like BURMA VJ and NO IMPACT MAN, those are both really good movies.
AY: I think a lot of times, the more socially conscious stuff resonates with me and the other guys at the company, but it’s not necessarily the criteria. We are all looking for films that we are moved by in one way or another, whether they are making us laugh or whatever it is, for some reason we really love the film. But yes a lot of times it does tend to be things that are more socially conscious, or putting out some information that needs to be out there, and putting it out in a really creative way.
Like with NO IMPACT MAN, the information is being put forward in a really creative way. The fact that Colin drags his family along on this crazy experiment, you know? It makes it an incredibly entertaining way to think about and learn about living with less of a carbon footprint. I thought about that film for a long time after I saw it. I still think about it. I still go to the store and think about it. I used to look at some food with packaging and think “Well, I’ve got to buy it with the packaging,” and now after seeing that film I have to think about “Do I really need to buy this thing with this packaging on it, or is there some other way that if I put a little more effort in I could figure out a way to get it without getting this packaging, like go to a farmer’s market and bring a piece of cloth or a bag.” I don’t know, I just think there are things like that that just make you think.
Capone: It definitely did, and I know exactly what you mean. You immediately start looking at your lifestyle choices when you see a movie like that and I didn’t even realize that you guys put out FRONTRUNNERS, which was one of my favorite docs from last year’s SXSW, and it just really underscored that desperate need that high school kids need to have a civics lesson, like they really need to know what an election is about and what it shouldn’t be about. It’s never too early to lean that sort of thing.
AY: Yeah, I do too. That wasn’t one that we knew anything about. David and I were literally wandering around SXSW and looked at the schedule and said, “It’s three o’clock, what’s playing? We’re in this building and what’s playing over there? Let’s walk in there.” We just walked in and sat down and watched the movie and then decided to approach the filmmakers and ask them about putting it out afterwards, but that’s what is fun about film festivals.
Capone: That’s the best feeling, just finding something randomly.
AY: We definitely just wandered into that one, and it’s great. I had a blast watching it.
Capone: So you mentioned before that you are looking at it like running an indie record label, and so to that end you have got this sort of old school record-and-tape club thing that you are doing next year with the DVDs.
AY: Yeah. It’s started up, people can sign up for it now.
Capone: So explain what it is a little bit and then explain why is this a better way to do it than just buying the films individually or going to see them in theaters.
AY: I certainly recommend the theatrical experience for anybody. I still think that’s the best way to experience any film, to see it in the theater with other people, on a big screen, with a loud sound system, in a dark room, with your telephone turned off. There’s definitely no better experience with films.
The structure of the club is you pay a $150 for the next ten DVDs, which is about half of the price that they cost in the stores if you bought them individually. The idea is that it might be fun for some people, if they were into what we were doing and identified with our films in general. It would basically be for somebody who says “I liked the last seven films these guys released and I’m going to take a chance with them and see what happens. It just might be fun to open up the mail each month and see what’s there.” I guess it’s with that spirit that we thought it might be fun for somebody who might be into going for that ride.
Capone: So what is the first film then that you are putting out this way?
AY: That would depend on when somebody signs up. You can come in at any point, but basically when you join the Circle of Trust thing then you are basically signing up for the next ten films.
But it’s also set up so that somebody can do it as a gift for somebody else, like starting with the new year or Christmas, Hanukkah, someone's birthday. You can buy it for someone and then choose when you want it to start, so it doesn't blow the surprise.
Once somebody is signed up, then they can buy anything in the back catalogue for half price too. So if somebody did want to collect all the films that we are releasing, this would be a good way to do it. If somebody was that crazy.
[Both Laugh]
Capone: Well it is like a real vote of confidence for your organization though if someone signs up to do this. Every one of these movies that you have put out so far has been worth paying to see, so it definitely is a great setup. What does “Circle of Trust” mean?
AY: I don't know, it's just silly. It was just the idea of people trusting our taste, whether they wanted to go on that ride.
Capone: So it is like a leap of faith. You are like their buddy next door or the video storeowner down the street who always knows how to hand them the stuff they like.
AY: Yeah, I mean before signing up you could guess at what the next four or five DVDs are going to be, because you can see what we have out in the theaters now that has yet to be released on DVD. So you can know what the first few will probably be, but some of them you won't know at the time when you sign up or sign someone else up. But that makes it a good present, because someone getting a present doesn't know what they are getting anyway.
Capone: I’m excited about the Michel Gondry documentary. I didn’t even know about that one. That one looks cool. When is that coming around?
AY: That's a lot of fun. I think it’s in the spring, but I couldn't swear to that. Yeah. It’s a limited theatrical. I’m not sure and again don’t quote me on that. [laughs]
Capone: I’ll keep an eye out, for sure. Going back to THE MESSENGER for a second, the high-profile nature of that film, does that film mark a turning point for Oscilloscope?
AY: It’s certainly the most high-profile film we have done to date, but I think again what is most significant to us about it is that it’s a great film. If somebody offered us a film that was equally high profile or even more so, but we didn’t like the film, we wouldn’t take it. You know what I’m saying? What we are really trying to do here is put together a library of films that we love, whether no one has ever seen or heard of the director or the cast or the filmmakers before, or whether it’s completely mainstream, if it’s a film that could play on 3,000 screens. It’s got to be something that we feel good about or at least that I do. [Laughs]
Capone: So you think you are going to make it to SXSW next year?
AY: Possibly. I might. I’m planning to go to Sundance coming up.
Capone: So you held the Beastie Boys album from last year. Have you guys nailed down when you think that might be finally coming out?
AY: No, we haven’t nailed down a date yet, but we are definitely talking about it and hopefully early next year. That would be great.
Capone: I’m kind of curious, one of the aspects to the last e-mail that you sent out had to do with some Tibetan medicine and eating vegan and organic diets. Has your approach to what they call “alternative medicine” always been pretty open minded, or was this really the first time that you have had to put your money where your mouth was?
AY: Pretty much. I was trying to eat mostly organic food anyway and be healthy, but I definitely took a much more extreme tack after I was diagnosed. It was definitely stuff that I was interested in, but it’s something that I’ve been learning a lot more about and taking much more seriously now.
And yes I am still taking the Tibetan medicine regularly, and I'm eating a really strict vegan diet. And even beyond that trying to make sure that I’m eating the right kinds of vegan foods, whole foods, not eating processed foods. I read an amazing book recently, or I should say I’m almost done with the book, called "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. It's an amazing book that has a lot of insight into that.
Capone: Into diet?
AY: Yeah, about how diet affects health.
Capone: I did appreciate the CADDYSHACK reference in the last e-mail too, if I remember correctly.
[Both Laugh]
Capone: That made me laugh. I’m reading it very intently and seriously, and I’m like “Wait a second, what is he saying there?”
AY: I couldn’t resist putting it in there. [laughs]
Capone: I’m really glad to hear you are doing well, and hopefully we will run into each other at some point at some festival next year. Good luck and continued success with Oscilloscope. Take it easy.
AY: That’s great. Thanks. Take care.
-- Capone
therealcapone@aintitcoolmail.com
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