Movie News

David Lynch Talks About Talking With George Lucas About Helming REVENGE OF THE JEDI!!

Published at: Dec. 10, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST by hercules

I am – Hercules!! If I knew David Lynch had talked to George Lucas about Lynch directing “Revenge of the Jedi,” I somehow blotted that fact out of my noggin. But Lynch talked about the meet-up a few weeks ago at a seminar inside New York’s Russian Tea Room. A recap on the timing of the Lynch-Lucas confab: “The Elephant Man,” Lynch’s follow-up to “Eraserhead,” was released Oct. 10, 1980, about four and a half months after “The Empire Strikes Back.” “Return of the Jedi,” ultimately directed by Richard Marquand, was released in 1983. Lynch’s follow-up to “The Elephant Man” ultimately turned out to be 1984’s “Dune”! What would Anakin Skywalker look like under that helmet, I wonder, had Lynch taken the reins of the biggest movie franchise in history? Fun Herc Fact. I love Lynch's "Dune" and have watched it more times than "Return of the Jedi." Thanks to “FatWomanizer,” who apparently alerted JoBlo to this video.
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Readers Talkback

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  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:21 a.m. CST

    First

    by Count Screwface

    Lynch would have crushed that movie.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:23 a.m. CST

    Would have been interesting

    by Stranamore

    At least.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:24 a.m. CST

    If Dune is any indication..thank God he didn't do it.

    by sonnyfern

    Dune was horrible. I love Lynch...but the further away he stays away from mainstream the better.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:24 a.m. CST

    I'm watching Family Guy....

    by DickJones

    ...and posting on AICN. Yup, it's time for bed.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:24 a.m. CST

    hmmm....

    by Alkohal

    Maybe he shoulda directed the Ewok: Battle For Endor movie instead.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:28 a.m. CST

    Dennis Hopper as Anakin Skywalker

    by Laserbrain

    "I'll not fight you, father."<p> "It's DADDY, bitch! Where's my BOURBON?!"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:34 a.m. CST

    He would have introduced Mara Jade

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    And Leia and her would have got down to some great action, ahhh Mullholland Drive, I still love that Naomi Watts Laura Harring scene

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:34 a.m. CST

    ah, what could have been

    by Juror Number 8

    now that would've been interesting. that video is great, but lynch hasn't made a truly great film since wild at heart.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:45 a.m. CST

    I want a ride in Lucas' Ferrari

    by Gungan Slayer

    so basically Lynch didn't direct ROTJ because of headaches.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:50 a.m. CST

    RIDLEY SCOTT SHOULD HAVE DIRECTED JEDI!!!FACT!!!

    by TehCreepyThinMan

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:55 a.m. CST

    His hands were tied on Dune, weren't they?

    by V'Shael

    It may have only a passing resemblance to the book, but Lynch's DUNE movie is a magnificent failure. <p> I don't think he could have saved Jedi though. It still would have been a two hour toy commercial.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:57 a.m. CST

    WITHOUT LIGHTSABRES HE POINTS!

    by ISleptWithKathyBatesAndAllThatIGotWasThisStupidTalkbackName

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Marquand did fine

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    He seemed to work with the cast better than Lucas but by then they had the natural rapport in any case

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:57 a.m. CST

    THE EWOKS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM!

    by ISleptWithKathyBatesAndAllThatIGotWasThisStupidTalkbackName

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:58 a.m. CST

    People are dissing the original Star Wars films?

    by Barrock

    Fucking really?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:58 a.m. CST

    ....YAWA RAF RAF YXALAG A NI

    by ISleptWithKathyBatesAndAllThatIGotWasThisStupidTalkbackName

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3 a.m. CST

    I AM NOT A WOOKIE! I AM A HUMAN BEING!! WE'LL, I'M ITALIAN!!! TH

    by TehCreepyThinMan

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:02 a.m. CST

    DARTH VADER WANTS TO FUUUCCCKKKK!!!

    by TehCreepyThinMan

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:03 a.m. CST

    Dis the prequels. The original trilogy however is faultless.

    by Hint_of_Smegma

    Jedi was a great film, yeah a lot of it was a commercial for toys but so the fuck what....it was a great film with a perfect ending to the trilogy. And I'll take Ewoks any fucking day of the week over CGI wookies running around a CGI landscape walloping CGI not-quite stormtroopers.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:05 a.m. CST

    Midichlorians?

    by LastOfTheV8Interceptors

    Fuck that shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:14 a.m. CST

    You all make me sick

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    I don't know why but you just do

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:15 a.m. CST

    Hercules is correct

    by kwisatzhaderach

    And yes, its about 100 times better than Return of the Jedi (which is still awesome though).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:18 a.m. CST

    Would of preferred Lynch's touch...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    Cause goddamn it if that particular episode isn't a bit flat tonally. Lynch would of definitely added some spice..pardon the pun

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Was going to be Spielberg

    by JacksBloatedPayroll

    Cept The Beard pissed off the directors guild.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:19 a.m. CST

    Paul Verhoeven

    by Shoegeezer

    was up for the job too, apparently on the strength of Soldier Of Orange. The tale goes that Lucas went cold on the idea after seeing his other movies, Verhoeven said something along the lines of "he probably thought I would have had the Jedis fucking each other or something."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:20 a.m. CST

    Yeah...

    by LastOfTheV8Interceptors

    I like Lynch's Dune too... even though he hates it. Maybe he'll come to terms with it someday.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:23 a.m. CST

    Herc

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Did you delete your post or am I drunk?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:24 a.m. CST

    I've never watched Dune.

    by thebearovingian

    Should I? Looks like it sucks? I mean, Sting's in it, c'mon.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:25 a.m. CST

    He wouldn't have saved Jedi...

    by Fortunesfool

    Lucas just needed a stand-in for that movie. Someone to do all that 'annoying stuff with actors'. On Star Wars, he was surrounded by more talented friends who told him to change all his bad ideas. Empire, if rumours are true, he was pretty much excluded by Kershner and the cast so they could make the best film. Jedi, he got rid of everyone and got to do whatever he wanted. The rest is history.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:26 a.m. CST

    Flying Spaghetti Monster

    by Hercules

    I moved my comment into the main post. Sorry about the disorientation.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:27 a.m. CST

    Yeah, any faults of ROTJ...

    by Admonisher

    ...are at the script level. Not that I'm a ROTJ-basher, by any means -- I acknowledge some of the shortcomings, but they didn't bother me as a kid, and they don't really bother me today. Marquand's directing is not one of the shortcomings, IMHO ... quite the contrary. (Also, I've always enjoyed Lynch's DUNE, warts and all!)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:31 a.m. CST

    Dune

    by Hercules

    is a magnificent failure. Challenging but brilliant filmmaking.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:35 a.m. CST

    The first act of Jedi is amazing.

    by TylerDurden3395

    I've always said Jedi has the best first act of the OT (the raid on Jabba's Palace), A New Hope has the best second act (the Death Star stuff), and Empire has the best third act (the Luke-Vader Bespin stuff). Jedi isn't quite in the same league as ANH and TESB but it still kicks more ass than any movie from this decade.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:36 a.m. CST

    Hercules

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Glad you're a Dune admirer. Its failure is on a level beyond most other films successes. I'd love Lynch to go back and do a proper cut of it, although I know its a bad memory for him. Just seems a waste to have all that footage sitting there. I guess the TV version is as good as we're going to get. <p> Quick shout-out for Brian Eno's 'Prophecy' theme - magnificent.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:36 a.m. CST

    I cant believe people hate Jedi???!!!

    by Drsambeckett1984

    All the stuff with Vader/Palpatine/Luke on the Death Star is easily the best dramatic stuff in the entire trilogy. <P> I mean come on, I feel sad when Vader dies!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:36 a.m. CST

    ROTJ

    by Hercules

    I'm convinced Leia being Luke's sister was tacked-on horseshit, and a horrible way to resolve the Han-Leia-Luke triangle, which could have been epic. <p> And I hated Han getting shoved to the sidelines in favor of an endless quantity of "Come to the Dark Side." "No." "It Beckons You." "No." "You can feel it." "No."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:41 a.m. CST

    Could have just said I was drunk

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    I know lynch hated it but why didn't he ever release a director's cut?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:44 a.m. CST

    Han definitely got the short end of the stick in Jedi

    by TylerDurden3395

    Things Han does in Jedi: get thawed out, goes blind, get thrown in jail, accidentally kills Boba Fett, saves Lando, whines at Lando about lending him his ship, gets captured by Ewoks, gets all Emo when Leia talks to Luke instead of him, gets captured by stormtroopers, says "I love you", (cringe), blows up a bunker, dance with Ewoks. You know your character gets shit on when his most heroic act in the movie is accidentally killing the most beloved (to me) character in the franchise.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:46 a.m. CST

    Plenty of people never liked Jedi (or any Star Wars)

    by V'Shael

    you just don't expect to run into them on a geek-related-website.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:47 a.m. CST

    Or just four hours of

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Virginia Madsen's tits

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:50 a.m. CST

    The Smithee Dune is claustrophobic.

    by Dingbatty

    Great casting, but ceilings, and the picture frame itself smother the characters. The universe of Dune should look vast and open.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:50 a.m. CST

    The only reason..

    by Jimbonx

    i visit this website is in the hope i get some original starwars discussion. true story.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:52 a.m. CST

    Han gropes Leia's tit in front of that bunker.

    by Dingbatty

    Should've gotten a different actor, because Harrison Ford always seems to have grudgingly worked in speculative fare.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:52 a.m. CST

    seemed

    by Dingbatty

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:59 a.m. CST

    I too am an admire of Lynch's Dune...

    by odo19

    The novel is my favorite work of fiction. Period. My hopes were pretty high for the movie and even though it doesn't really work and parts of it are indeed terrible it's so ambitious and weird that I kind of love it anyway. The only thing about it that I really find unforgivable if the shit score by fucking Toto. Almost as bad as the Wang Chung score from To Live and Die in LA but not quite. If he ever makes a directors cut he should have Angelo Badalamenti rescore it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:02 a.m. CST

    admirer I meant.....

    by odo19

    I'm doing that a lot tonight. Fuck.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:03 a.m. CST

    the Toto score was amazing!!

    by Chemicals

    Are you fucking kidding me odo19? The Wang Chung score for Live and Die was truly awful, but Toto was the shit.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:06 a.m. CST

    As for Lynch...

    by Chemicals

    He kind of lost it with his transcendental meditation bullshit. His movies have been shit since Lost Highway. Inland Empire was an incredible chore to sit through, utter torture in a movie theater. Just a travesty with some really bad acting. That homeless woman with the lip still cracks me up. Lynch is pretty much done for all intents and purposes. Antichrist is the film Lynch wishes he could still make.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:17 a.m. CST

    Han was meant to die in ROTJ

    by Drsambeckett1984

    Saving Luke on the Death Star I think? <P> But Lucas changed it late on in the filming process, Ford was all for it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:21 a.m. CST

    THAT JEDI MIND TRICK YOU LIKE IS GOING TO COME BACK IN STYLE

    by JuntMonkey

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:23 a.m. CST

    What about mulholland dr?

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    And Antichrist is shocking for sure, but shock alone doesn't equal what lynch does

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:24 a.m. CST

    JuntMonkey

    by kwisatzhaderach

    That's it. Time to buy the Twin Peaks Gold boxset. You just reminded me.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:25 a.m. CST

    Director's Cuts of FWWM and Dune?

    by JuntMonkey

    Four hour directors cuts of FWWM and Dune on Blu-Ray? ONE F-CKING TIME!! It's such a horrible sadness that all those glorious seeds planted in FWWM never got to come to fruition in the planned sequels.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:29 a.m. CST

    Too scared to watch Inland Empire

    by JuntMonkey

    I love Lynch but am much too frightened to watch IE. I probably have to wait until I get married...I'll need somebody next to me in bed for at least a month after I see it. "RABBITS" the web series made me literally sick (like literally almost nauseous, and in the middle of the day with people around) with fear and I had to sleep with the light on sporadically for weeks.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:31 a.m. CST

    Mulholland Dr was awesome..

    by odo19

    apparently I'm in the minority with my love for that film though. Everything in it just worked for me. And come on...how can anyone not have love for the cowboy?? Inland Empire on the other hand was truly horrendous garbage. I had to finish it in 3 sitttings.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:35 a.m. CST

    odo19

    by JuntMonkey

    Don't listen to these morons...Mulholland Dr. is widely considered to be one of the best of the decade. I think one list may have had it as #1.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:36 a.m. CST

    FLOCKA!!!

    by Waka_Flocka_Flame

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:39 a.m. CST

    Let's face it...

    by BiggusDickus

    'Dune' was fucking appalling, wasn't it?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:41 a.m. CST

    But getting back to the post...

    by BiggusDickus

    I doubt Lynch would have fucked up the franchise any more than Lucas himself did...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:44 a.m. CST

    To hell with the ROTJ haters

    by spud mcspud

    You can't fault most of that movie. Yeah, the Ewoks were kinda unecessary, but since the bit where an Ewok goes back to his friend after they've been blown away and cries over his corpse, you'd have to admit - that was one of the more emotional scenes in the movie. Rope traps are always fun, and tell me it wasn't great watching all the AT-STs getting wrecked by a bunch of teddy bears with rope and logs!<P> You have Jabba's palace. Leia's slave outfit alone makes me put ROTJ over TESB in my list. You have the whole Sarlaac pit scene. The rendezvous with the Rebellion. The last scenes with Yoda. The attack on the Death Star, edited PERFECTLY- and it is perfect - with the attack on the shield generator on Endor and Luke's surrender to the Emperor and ensuing fight with his own father. If the Wachowski brothers had edited the third act of MATRIX REVOLUTIONS in EXACTLY the same way as JEDI, you'd have had an exceptional movie, not the longest and most turgid death scene EVER.<P> And that space battle at the end... Sorry, but the opening to SITH wishes it was half as exciting as the climax to JEDI. I don't hate EMPIRE, but it blows its wad spectacle-wise with the battle on HOTH - after that, it's fortune-cookie philosophy with a Muppet, the most boring scenes in ANY SW movie as Lando tries to talk them to death on Bespin, then THAT scene with Luke and Vader, and Han getting frozen - then it all ends with not with a bang, but a whimper. I don't hate on EMPIRE - hell, emotionally all the beats are present and correct - but a SW movie needs more than just emotional beats - it needs SPECTACLE. That JEDI combines such an emotional climax with TWO such spectacular battles (space and on Endor) gives it, for me, a better ending than EMPIRE. Well, until that fucker Darth Gizzard put Anakin Skywhinger in at the end with no fucking explanation whatsoever.<P> Would have LOVED to see what Lynch would have done with JEDI, though. And I think DUNE is a flawed masterpiece...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:47 a.m. CST

    Images I've had burned into my brain for years now:

    by Iblis_mage

    David Lynch...the one who gave us Eraserhead, Twin Peaks, Wild at Heart, etc. Out in the woods in Northern California...directing Ewoks.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:01 a.m. CST

    JuntMonkey

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Who's talking down about Mulholland dr?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:03 a.m. CST

    Lynch was also asked to direct Fast Times at Ridgemont High

    by seppukudkurosawa

    But luckily (?) he turned it down. Although maybe the teen comedy would be a whole different animal today if his Fast Times had taken off. We can only but imagine...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:06 a.m. CST

    If you're serious...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    that whole scene with Phoebe Cates exiting the pool while Judge Reinhold jerks it would probably be fuckin terrifying.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:07 a.m. CST

    I always thought it was empty rumour

    by BendersShinyAss

    I love Dune. It's not everyone cup of tea, but david lynch was to the 80's what tarantino was to the 90's. the man was all style and a lot of people can't deal with that. there are some lynch movies i can't take, ie eraser head, blue velvet, and there's some tarantino i can't take, ie jackie brown. <p>I'm glad lynch didn't do jedi. it would have been ugly..... however, that said - Lucas would have just taken the footage and cut it all together his way with control over the visual effects.... so who knows how it would have been?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:10 a.m. CST

    What's with all the love for Han?

    by obidawsn

    Everyone I knew that liked Star Wars was always a huge fan of Han Solo. I never understood that. The story isn't about Han. It's about the journey of Luke from farm boy to Jedi. Herc, for all your talk about Han being pushed to the side in ROTJ for Luke, I thought the opposite was true for Empire. Not that I don't like the Han/Leia story. I just didn't think it was the focus of the overall story. That's why I was excited about the prequels. I wanted to see more Jedi action. And seeing Anakin's story was something I looked forward to seeing, as it would give a bigger story arc to the series. Too bad it wasn't executed as well as it could have been.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:14 a.m. CST

    That's what Cameron Crowe said in the Fast Times commentary

    by seppukudkurosawa

    And it's also got that written down in the trivia section of his IMDB bio: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000186/bio<p> And yeah, Judge Reinhold would totally have been wearing a gas mask or something during the jerking off scene.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:29 a.m. CST

    Only Salad?

    by Semen Stains

    Hasnt Lucas aslways been fat? if all he ate was salad he wouldnt have so many chins.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:29 a.m. CST

    I like parts of Dune

    by tomimt

    The design of the movie is great and it's filled with damn nice scenes. The biggest problem in it is the length: it's just damn too short and it shows, when the plot starst taking huge leaps forward, when it actually starts out pretty slow paced. And Totos Dune theme is damn fine track.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:45 a.m. CST

    Carbonite stacks it on...

    by BiggusDickus

    Han in 'Empire' - twelve stone, tops. Han in 'Jedi' fourteen stone, easy. <p>Forget creatine for weight gain, boys - carbonite is where it's at!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:58 a.m. CST

    Verhoeven was going to do this too, right?

    by Mr Gorilla

    Imagine what THAT would have been like...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:04 a.m. CST

    Mulholland Dr. is, in my opinion, Lynch' masterpiece...

    by VicenzoV

    Saw Inland Empire three times and I've temporarily given up on it. One day I'll know what it was all about or those rabbit scenes will stay with me forerver.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:05 a.m. CST

    by LarkStew

    When ROTJ came out I got the souvenir magazine where they talked abut the script. Marquand said they had the script all finished until Luke is hiding in the throne room from from Vader and they couldn't think of a way to entice him out. Someone said, why not make Leia his sister and have Vader threaten her? And that's how Luke and Leia became twins. Lucas may say he had it all planned out but truly he made it up as he went along.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:14 a.m. CST

    Dune?

    by The StarWolf

    Made the mistake of paying to see that movie in a cinema. At the time I was with girlfriend who was a Herbert completist. She loved much of his stuff. Yet, even she had trouble following some of what was going on in that mess of a movie. And what was that with those dark places? They have power sources for personal force fields yet can't manage more than 40-watt bulbs?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:17 a.m. CST

    Lucas had the egg salad

    by Chakraborty

    Topped with gorganzola cheese and hot fudge.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:23 a.m. CST

    Take the S & M undertones of Princess Leia's get-up

    by OgreYouAsshole

    with Jaba and multiple it ten fold. There's your Lynch version.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:30 a.m. CST

    sorry but ROTJ was the writing on the wall:

    by newc0253

    Yes, it had some great sequences (sarlaac pit, gold bikini, the end battle) but c'mon: Ewoks? Between that and Caravan of Courage, I don't know how people can be surprised when Jar Jar Binks turned up in TPM.<p> ROTJ is also example of Lucas laziness: like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, it's a reworking of the original elements. Death Star? Well that worked in the first movie, so let's have another one except bigger. Lost Ark? We already found that, so let's have him go after another powerful mystical artifact. Yadda yadda.<p> I remember the Lynch rumour from long ago. It makes me think there's two Lucases. There's the filmmaker who made THX1138, the Lucas that made Star Wars with smouldering corpses of Luke's remaining family, the Lucas who recognised Lynch as a brilliant director and pegged him to direct a Star Wars film.<p> And then there's the Lucas who has the Empire that crushed the Wookies beaten by a bunch of Care Bears. The Lucas that made fart jokes in TPM. The Lucas that made Greedo shoot first.<p> It's a shame that Lynch seemed so uninterested in Jedi, given how much he was attached to Dune, and how much of an influence Dune was on the original Star Wars...<p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:32 a.m. CST

    You don't win friends with salad!

    by LHombreSiniestro

    You don't win friends with salad! You don't win friends with salad! You don't win friends with salad!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:33 a.m. CST

    obidawsn

    by Hercules

    I'd argue the training with Yoda in ESB was Luke's finest hour.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:34 a.m. CST

    Lynch's versions of Jabba's palace and The Emperor

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    would have been fucking terrifying. Jabba's palace would have been a hot-bed of Roman orgies and freaky shit with slimy monsters, with Jabba as some sort of repulsive alien version of Frank Booth, sexually abusing Leia. The Emperor would probably speak some crazy backwards gobbledygook, before making hellish LSD inspired visions dance before Luke's eyes.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST

    Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    by Drsambeckett1984

    The Emperor was scary enough!!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:52 a.m. CST

    Lynch would have kept the "Jabba rapes Leia" scene

    by V'Shael

    She'd have been pregnant too, with some slimy Huttese larval-like birth (like Geena Davis in The Fly) <p> And if Luke and Leia were twins in his version, they would totally have had sex a lot. <p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:55 a.m. CST

    Lynch would have Luke and Leia make sex

    by ominus

    and then reveal to them and to the audience,that they are brother and sister.kinky.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:59 a.m. CST

    spud mcspud u forgost the heroic,almost epic

    by ominus

    death of BOBA FETT.the fans still mourn of his tragic but dignified death.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:05 a.m. CST

    when lynch unmasks vader=

    by alice133

    vaders voice is dubbed by a womans voice.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:07 a.m. CST

    When Gary Kurtz left . . .

    by Thall_Joben

    Those movies lost something important.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:10 a.m. CST

    The music

    by Baryonyx

    I really don't like Jedi very much (Ewoks!!!!!), but would Lynch have made it any better? Would he have put Toto on the soundtrack, playing the banal tune over all the action scenes (as he did with Dune) to render them dull and uninvolving?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:24 a.m. CST

    No, you're being a smart aleck...

    by Grammaton Cleric

    I personally think that Mulholland Drive is Lynch's best work; but I agree that Inland Empire is a mess. Lynch shoots film gorgeously; and it's a tragedy to hear how into digital he is. IE has it's moments, but they're few and far between.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:25 a.m. CST

    DUNE was a piece of shit

    by Prof_Ender

    One of those movies where you know they spent millions and millions on it...but still managed to make it look as cheap as a b-film. Ugly. Unimaginative. Pretentious. Boring.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:25 a.m. CST

    "Revenge" of the Jedi?

    by turketron_2

    Was that just a missprint?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:26 a.m. CST

    Luke, while banging Leia, finds out she's his twin sister.

    by turketron_2

    His reaction?<p> "Feels good man"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:27 a.m. CST

    Cuz

    by turketron_2

    Twincest is wincest.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:28 a.m. CST

    ROTJ far superior to Dune

    by shutupfanboy

    I have never turned off Jedi twenty minutes in. Patrick Stewart holding a dog while going into battle was the most retarded moment in cinema. People bang on the Ewoks even though they were made due to financial problems making the Wookies, but nothing is as gay as that scene. I love Twin Peaks and admire Lynch's work, but the movie would have been surreal and would have made little or no sense. Like I said, I love Twin Peaks, but Fire Walk with Me was awful. You don't do a prequel to something that has no end. I am sure the coffee house people will disagree, but fuck them. Jedi ended it the way it should have with a happy ending. Also, Han had stuff to do in Jedi, it just wasn't as epic as Empire. He probably should killed Fett outright, but he did kill him and lead a strike team that destroyed the shield generator. Its not as bad as how useless Legolas and Gimili were in Return of the King.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:31 a.m. CST

    The Film Was Not Written Right!!!

    by Media Messiah

    Damn the director, George Lucas undermined the whole entire film series when he changed the original story for Revenge of The Jedi aka Blue Harvest, aka Return of The Jedi. It was to be the Wookies fighting Storm Troopers, not Ewoks. It was to be, Luke Skywalker who wins the hand of Princess Leia...not Han Solo. Luke and Leia where not twins, or brother or sister, and Han and Chewie were to die by ramming the center core of the new Deathstar in a Kamikaze run that destroys it, and the Millenium Falcon. That was the original script, and that was a stronger script, one that Harrison Ford, and Star Wars Trilogy producer Gary Kurtz fought for, but Lucas refused to listen to their concerns, prefering to sell toys instead---the reason why Lucas and Kurtz are enemies to this day. It wouldn't have mattered who directed the film, with the weak script substitution that Lucas made his shooting script. With that single act of greed in merchandising toys, over substance in story, he ruined the entire Star Wars Trilogy.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:35 a.m. CST

    TheUmpireStrokesBach...would HAVE, it's would HAVE, not would OF

    by Jubal_Early

    Sorry, but I'm a writer, and it's a pet peeve of mine when people do that.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:35 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah well said sir

    by ominus

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:36 a.m. CST

    turketron_2 no he would say:

    by ominus

    'good.now turn around.'

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:39 a.m. CST

    I don't like Return Of The Jedi much

    by AsimovLives

    And it was the first SW movie i saw. But i don't like it much. As many say, the best part, and where it is it's own movie, is the first part. The rest if a reash of A New Hope, only bigger. and then there's the fucking teddy bears. I'm sorry, but the fucking teddy bears completly ruins the moie for me, the same way Jar Jar Binks ruins The Phantom Menace.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Ominus: Thank You

    by Media Messiah

    It just broke my heart when I saw that movie, I instantly knew it was off within the first 10 minutes, and then things got worse and worse? It was very sad to see such a strong modern myth, a masterpiece, destroyed before my eyes.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:40 a.m. CST

    Apples and oranges

    by Gozu

    "Return of the Jedi" is the third part of a trilogy and doesn't stand too well on it's on. It's easily the weakest film in the trilogy. "Dune" stands alone and is riddled with flaws, but damn it, I love it and I definitely prefer it to the shitty Sci-Fi mini-series. Easily my favorite David Lynch film. It is so of it's time and bizarre (soundtrack by Toto? Sting?), but come on, Sarlac vs. sandworms? Ewoks vs. Fremen? "Return of the Jedi" exists as part of a larger work whereas "Dune" is fiercely original and self-contained.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:40 a.m. CST

    LYNCH WOULD HAVE VADER DANCING EERILY IN A RED DRESS

    by BringingSexyBack

    and Michael Anderson would be Emperor.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:41 a.m. CST

    Watching the ROTJ trailer makes me smile...

    by DrCaligari111

    Man, watching that trailer brings back the memories. Me and my friends skipped school and drove across town to stand in line for ROTJ. And yeah while the movie's certainly no ESB, the Jabba the Hutt/palace escape sequence with John Williams music just kicks all sorts of ass. "Star Wars," "Superman," "Star Trek," "Indiana Jones" and more... those were my high school years and wouldn't change it for anything.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:42 a.m. CST

    HEY ASIMOVLIVES

    by WINONARYDERS_PUSSYJUlCE

    I HAVEN'T BEEN ON THIS SITE IN A WHILE - YOU THE GUY WHO DOESN'T REALLY LIKE THE NEW STAR TREK?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:42 a.m. CST

    AN ANGELO BADALAMENTI STAR WARS SCORE WOULD KICK INTERSTELLAR AS

    by BringingSexyBack

    Damn that this did not happen.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:44 a.m. CST

    Lynch Is Fucking Hilarious

    by Crow3711

    What a genuine original. Go watch "David Lynch on iPhone" on youtube if you haven't. The guy is hysterical.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:44 a.m. CST

    ONE ONE PERSON COULD'VE DONE ROTJ JUSTICE: IRVIN KERSHNER

    by BringingSexyBack

    Why wasn't he brought back for it? Was Lucas jealous that ESB was too good?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:46 a.m. CST

    Turketron_2: Revenge Of The Jedi

    by Media Messiah

    Revenge of The Jedi was the original name of the film until fans pointed-out to Lucas, shortly before the film's release, that Jedis don't seek revenge. Lucas then changed the title to Return of The Jedi. BTW...the working title of the film, to throw-off curious fans, was Blue Harvest.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:49 a.m. CST

    Lynch's Dune is a feverish mess

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Full of insane Lynchian flourishes...even though there's no way I could call it a good film, it still elicits a bizarre fascination to this day. I've only seen it maybe three times, however--and at least one of those was the Alan Smithee cut. Of course, I haven't seen ROTJ more than a half dozen or so. Can't stand the damn Ewoks, just can't stand 'em.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:49 a.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack: You Are Correct

    by Media Messiah

    Word had it that Lucas was jealous of Irvin Kershner for making a superior film in the form of Empire, thus he did not want him to receive any would-be glory for Jedi.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:50 a.m. CST

    I'M GONNA LOAD LOST HIGHWAY ON THE iPOD AND SEE IF HE'S RIGHT

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:53 a.m. CST

    One day people will see Lucas films for what they are

    by TheJudger

    Push forwards for new cinematic tech. If the man tinkered with cars people wouldnt talk so much shit. He developed a love for the moving image. He is a dreamer and he saw ways to change the way people could play with technology to better the world of the moving image. Instead of just seeing these films at face value for the innovations they ushered people want to judge them at the crudest level possible- The story. All of the films have high entertainment and wow factors all of them including the prequels and all of them, each one pushed something new tech wise into film making. The cruelty of the fans is amazing. absolutely, and this poke fun talk shit game has everyone taking pot shots, because it's fun to play along and feel above it all. Very sad. Lucas has it all as far as wealth and power goes. I just wish the people who he raised on these films had more compassion for him. More respect. Better understanding of what he's doing and been doing for film since he started. His rebel nature is just that that it also pissed off the fans as well.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:55 a.m. CST

    Funny story, BTW

    by I am_NOTREAL

    and Lynch tells it well. I've never been his biggest fan--too often it feels like he goes weird just for weirdness' sake--but the guy does make what he wants and some of his work hits a mark close enough to brilliant.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:55 a.m. CST

    2014: Dune 3D

    by zinc_chameleon

    and I'm not kidding. Take the best of the original, digitize it (create 3d objects for the few of you here who are actual computer geeks) and use practical effects for close-up work.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:55 a.m. CST

    THAT'S A SHAME, MESSIAH. KERSHNER WOULD'VE ROCKED IT.

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:55 a.m. CST

    HEY MEDIA MESSIAH

    by WINONARYDERS_PUSSYJUlCE

    YOU REALLY PLAY FAST AND LOSE WITH THE TRUTH IN YOUR POSTS DON'T YA BOY? FANS DIDN'T APPROACH LUCAS AND TELL HIM TO CHANGE IT TO RETURN - HE CHANGED IT HIMSELF. AND HE WASN'T JEALOUS OF KERSHNER, ESPECIALLY SINCE HE PAID FINES TO KEEP KERSHNER OUT OF TROUBLE AFTER THE DIRECTOR'S GUILD WENT AFTER HIM. MAN YOU'RE REALLY NOT A MEDIA MESSIAH, YOU'RE A VERY NAUGHTY BOY. AND A CUNT.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:58 a.m. CST

    TheJudger

    by SithMenace

    I disagree. I think Lucas is a storyteller first and foremost, a movie fan second, and a believer that he has to create the technology necessary to make his films third.<p>I'll never believe his films were just an excuse to push movie tech forward, they were a reason.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:59 a.m. CST

    Say what you will of the Special Editions

    by BendersShinyAss

    But Return of the Jedi was TERRIFICALLY enhanced (& fixed) when they added some effects, fixed some poxy ones, gave it a new grove during the jubba party sequence and that ending was much more satisfying.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8 a.m. CST

    How could you forget?

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It's such a bizarre bit of trivia. I think about it every day.<p> Seriously, Lynch directing would have been one way to make Jedi even worse.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:01 a.m. CST

    I'm imagining Darth Vader yelling

    by Sailor Rip

    to some Empire lackey about the fact that his Pabst Blue Ribbon is getting warm and if there's one thing he can't stand it's warm fucking beer. <p> I'll fuck any wookie that moves!!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:01 a.m. CST

    Everything I said previously was about the OT

    by SithMenace

    The prequels did seem like tech over story.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:03 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah/BSB - False

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Irvin Kershner was actually offered the chance to direct Jedi. He declined - and later said that he regretted the decision.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:08 a.m. CST

    Visually, DUNE was pretty amazing

    by BenBraddock

    But it didn't compare to the book (which I finished about 2 hours before seeing the movie). That it ever made it to the big screen at all is pretty incredible; I'd have to put Lynch's version down as an interesting faliure. The stunt casting of Sting was just one of the weirdest choices..

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:10 a.m. CST

    And yeah, MULLHOLLAND DRIVE is fantastic

    by BenBraddock

    Even better than LOST HIGHWAY. And more confusing. A truly great film though - if you haven't seen it, do so, but keep an open mind!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by BendersShinyAss

    that an old myth. The truth is paramount had a film in production called 'the revenge of kahn' star trek and star wars released around the same time, both with 'revenge' for their titles? <p>both parties agreed to change

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:16 a.m. CST

    I'd like to see a movie...

    by fiester

    About Lynch going to visit Lucas--that sounds a hell of a lot more dramatic (and Lynchian) than RotJ.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:16 a.m. CST

    If you guys ever have a chance to interview Lynch...

    by Phimseto

    ...please beg him to put together that fabled director's cut of Dune. It's been #1 on many people's wishlists since laserdisc days.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Lynch comes off a bit like an asshole in this clip

    by YackBacker

    Like a decrepit hipster. Yawn, thanks for wasting my time, herc.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:17 a.m. CST

    Story is not main problem with Jedi

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    It's the execution. Yeah, Wookies would have been better than the goddamned Ewoks. But the Ewoks didn't have to be so LAME, not only primitive creatures, but fat, short teddy bear critters. Just ridiculous. But also there is some godawful acting in Jedi - and this is in comparison to the previous two which aren't exactly clinics in subtle drama - particularly from Harrison Ford of all people.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:19 a.m. CST

    Never watch a movie two hours after finishing the book

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Better to wait two months

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave: Then We All...

    by Media Messiah

    ...regret his decision, if true.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:20 a.m. CST

    Bender

    by SithMenace

    TWOK came out almost a full year before ROTJ. Plus in the documentary Empire of Dreams several people involved with the production, including Lucas, talk about the fact that Lucas was told Return was a weak title, so he changed it to Revenge, only to change it back right before release because revenge is not a Jedi emotion.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:22 a.m. CST

    Thunderbolt

    by SithMenace

    The acting in the prequels makes anything in Jedi look like The Godfather.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:24 a.m. CST

    Original ROTJ script was mostly terrible

    by shutupfanboy

    I do agree with the Wookies being in the film, but as it has been stated a number of times, they would have blown the budget on the costumes. Han and Leia not being together with all that happened in Empire would have been a coup-out to give her to Luke. Han and Chewies ramming the Falcon into the second Death Star would have pissed everyone off. That ending would have killed Star Wars dead since you just got rid of the one of the best ships, character and sidekick in film. Good Lord, what is wrong with a happy ending, not everything has to be Dark Knight or Empire or so dark you can't see the film. Shit, Dark Knight is fucked, because of their ending.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:25 a.m. CST

    Lynch and "Long Island Goo Spew"?

    by keylimepirate

    I think there's a cosmic connection. It's a webisode series on YouTube. Would've liked to have seen that seminar. Couldn't play hookie from work.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:26 a.m. CST

    BendersShinyAss: I Heard The Media Reports When They First Happe

    by Media Messiah

    And the reports specifically said that it was fan reaction to "Revenge" not being a trait of the Jedi, and nothing else, however, I believe I do recall a squable over Paramount trying to use the Revenge in the Star Trek title...but the films were released a year apart. However, with Lucas, and all things Lucas, he and his publicity folks are known to put out a lot of revisionist history, like when Lucas claimed that there would be 9 Star Wars films and that the story of all of the films had already been written.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:29 a.m. CST

    Sting in Dune

    by jameskpolk

    As I recall, Sting's part consisted of several close-up shots of him grimacing or sneering... 2 lines of dialogue (one of which was "I WILL kill you...") and a prompt death at the hands of the increasingly creepy Kyle McLaclan.<br><br> Pluse he's wearing what looks like an extra large "huggies" diaper.<br><br>WTF was he thinking??

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:32 a.m. CST

    Dont be so hard on Jedi, fellas

    by Out of your element

    The Jabba the Hut sequence (basically the first half of the movie) and space and lightsaber battles were really solid. Could do without the ewoks though.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:34 a.m. CST

    Come on

    by Wookie_1995

    Revenge of the jedi? Revenge is not the jedi way first off, why not just base it off after episode 6. And call it Rise of The New Republic. and bring back mark hamil and the gang

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:34 a.m. CST

    This is such old news....

    by knowthyself

    Lynch has talked about this plenty of times. This is news? Gimme a break.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Jedi and Dune are both failures

    by Mattyboy122

    Jedi is a more even picture, but it also has zero personality. And it has THE MOST BORING opening of any Star Wars film. We spend 30 fucking minutes with one character after another showing up at Jabba's Palace. Again and again and again. If I ever have a case of insomnia, I toss on ROTJ and I'm counting sheep in no time. Lynch's Dune is fascinating in how off-the-wall bugnuts insane it is. Patrick Stewart charging heroically into battle with a pug under his arm has to be one of the most absurd images the cinema has ever given us. That said, I would have loved to see Lynch's Jedi, if only because I'd rather see a failure with personality than a success without any, so at its worst Lynch's Jedi would have at least been interesting. Jedi does too much wrong to be taken seriously.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Thunderbolt, if I'd waited 2 months

    by BenBraddock

    the movie would have been long gone from my local flea-pit. Yes, I saw this one on the big-screen back in the day. I was totally stoked after weeks of media build-up. You are no doubt correct, though, in your two-month rule :-)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:39 a.m. CST

    Jedi is a solid film

    by SithMenace

    and doesn't deserve the hate that it gets from certain SW fans.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:41 a.m. CST

    Lynch's headache

    by Crimson Dynamo

    probably from the fumes from those Wookie costumes

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:42 a.m. CST

    Sting

    by BenBraddock

    Thank God his acting career now sleeps with the fishes. Anyone see THE BRIDE? My God, The Horror.. Obviously he was hot in 1984 (The Police's SYNCHRONICITY had just been #1 in the US for like 17 weeks) so he was cast in DUNE to get free media coverage, is my guess.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Oh and Jedi is awesome

    by knowthyself

    Great finish to Lucas' original trilogy.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Jedi was a product of its time.

    by V'Shael

    If you saw it for the first time today, having never seen Star Wars, you'd think it was shit.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:44 a.m. CST

    Terrific!

    by Major Hockshtetter

    That was fun,thanks for posting it! Lynch is certainly a hero of mine. I wish he was a bit more prolific these days but Inland Empire was such a monster epic that I guess I'll be sated for a little while. Lynch at the helm of JEDI would have been a trip, to be sure. While I've always considered DUNE to be a guilty pleasure (it's preposterously done yet gorgeous to look at), I can't imagine Jedi through a Lynch lens... more dream sequences, the Emperor as a backwards talking midget, extreme close-ups of fire... cool!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:50 a.m. CST

    The tooth. The tooth.

    by working_class_slut

    Imagine the weird psycho-sexual shit Lynch could've explored between Luke and Leia.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:52 a.m. CST

    Shutupfanboy: Wrong--Han And Chewie's Sacrifice

    by Media Messiah

    That story would have taught the fans a sense of sacrifice, and that these characters were fightng for something of great importance. In regard to Luke and Leia, we saw the echoes of romance brewing between Han and Leia, and what we should have seen, in Han's absence, is the other half of things--that tension between Luke and Leia fully played-out, and her trying to resist it...out of loyalty to Han. That is just real human emotion at play, not just fantasy, and that is what makes one relate to fantasy characters in a deeper way, as opposed to seeing them as just caricatures of us, they become extensions of our real lives when given real emotion and reactions that reflect our lives, ones that we can vicariously live through, and relate to, if handled properly. And the logical conclusion was to play-out the love triangle to its obvious end. The brother and sister revelation was the cop-out, and was just a play on the "Luke, am your Father!" business. Fine, that worked once, but not twice!!! <BR><BR>As far as the Wookies are concerned, I would argue that if the crews for Planet of The Apes could make Monkey men for a line on films, I think five in total of the original films, and a TV series--all with costumes and full make-up, Lucas could have supplied us with Wookies. His excuses, are just that, excuses to justify the Ewoks fiasco, which he placed in the film as a lure for kids, and toy sales. <BR><BR>Back to Han and Chewie, the fans would have applauded non-stop at the end oof the film when they saw Luke and the others in the forrest of Endor celebrating the end of the Empire, if Luke looked over and saw the ghostly images of not just only Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin...but...to see the camera pan to the right and capture the images of a smiling Han and Chewie at his side, would have delivered the happy ending you might be looking for. Han being basically an atheist, it would have been a metaphor for his final and full redemption, the revelation, that even for him...there is an afterlife. There wouldn't have been a dry eye in the audience if that is how the film would have concluded.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:58 a.m. CST

    The less money and more risk Lucas had

    by YackBacker

    The better the movies overall. STAR WARS was his biggest gamble and it ended up being the most fun of all of the movies. EMPIRE was financed independently by Lucas and he was sweating bullets the whole time. But after those two movies made him secure financially, Lucas started getting cute. The pressure that comes with not having real financial security was gone. And with it went the creative sharpness that helped make the two best movies of his series.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:01 a.m. CST

    Only Jedi can appear as ghosts

    by SithMenace

    Otherwise we might as well have Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru there, the downed rebel pilots, murdered Ewoks, the billions of people killed on Alderaan and all of the independent contractors killed on the Death Star.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:02 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah is yet again correct

    by ominus

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:04 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by Drsambeckett1984

    You are right, that would have been an amazing ending. And there would always be the possibility they survived. I'm all for happy endings, but that one would have made a much more satisfying climax. <P> And as for there not being enough budget for Wookies, Lucas financed the movie himself, with his monumental fortune, which was massive even in the 80s! He could easily have afforded it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:05 a.m. CST

    Media messiah

    by BendersShinyAss

    I love star wars, but i was always more a star trek boy. I've got so much memorabilia, and autobiographies - ... and i was wrong, it wasn't the revenge of kahn, it was the Vengence of kahn. regardless of their release dates being a year apart, both films were in production at the same time. There was a massive fight from gene roddenberry because he HATED the title and he threatened to creat a public storm because George lucas was calling his next star wars film the revenge of the jedi. George lucas got on board and suggested they change the title. Paramount then suggested that if they are to change the title then so should he. THAT'S the truth of it. All this bullshit about fan's demanding a change is just that.... bullshit.... actually, it's damage control. <p> Lucas opted for return - which ended up being more in line with the saga of the jedi and Nicolas meyer opted for Wrath, which was more in line with the character of kahn. I'm not making this up. <p>I'll also add that roddenberry hated the title of 'the search for spock' - james dohan offed the alternate 'in search of spock' (which i think is HEAPS better) but..... it wasnt to be

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:06 a.m. CST

    and look...

    by BendersShinyAss

    i did a quick google search... http://everything2.com/title/Star+Trek+II%253A+The+Wrath+of+Khan

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:14 a.m. CST

    Enfin / Semuta is a hell of a drug

    by Kontarsky

    I bet there would have been less Ewok shenanigans. The T0000TH as said before.<p>As long as Baron = Palpatine, Feyd = Luke, Rabban = Vader, Piter = Piett, Fenring = Jerjerrod, I'D SO BE WATCHING THIS FILM RIGHT NOW! Dune 1980 is a-ok and I grew up on it. My father preferred it over Star Wars and made me watch it before I even saw a Star Wars film in entirety. The part where the Baron starts gnawing on some effeminate guy and drinking his blood or whatever scarred me for life. Dune is also the best sci-fi book of all time. Fact.<p>Ps, I'm still angry they cut the scene where the Death Star 2 was going to fire on Endor. When you see the 'miss fire' seconds before it blows up, I count it as that, not an energy flux. OH YEAHHHH. Anyone who read the novelisation should know what the hell I'm talkin' 'bout!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:16 a.m. CST

    Empire is the most fun of the films

    by Kontarsky

    I guess no one else smokes pot or drinks while watching the films. You can really trip to the Dagoooobah stuff. Heck, even Hoth is tripable.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:17 a.m. CST

    WINONARYDERS_PUSSYJUlCE

    by AsimovLives

    One among many.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Sacrifice was already done twice in Jedi

    by shutupfanboy

    Yoda died in the beginning of the film and gave Luke the info on Leia as well as the Emperor. Also Vader sacrificed himself to save Luke. How much sacrifice does a movie need to the point that it becomes meaningless? I also don't think the brother/sister was a coup out since there were a number of references of Leia being strong in the force from Vader saying so in A New Hope and her ability to hear Luke's cry for help in ESB. It was there from the beginning according to Lucas and I believe him.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:19 a.m. CST

    I don't think Lynch seems like an asshole at all

    by I am_NOTREAL

    in this clip. He just makes it pretty plain that the types of movies that Lucas is into aren't his bag at all.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:20 a.m. CST

    DAVID LYNCH for DARK TOWER cable series please...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...or at least certain sections.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:21 a.m. CST

    The kid in me would have hated that ending.

    by DVader

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST

    ...Re: DUNE Story a bit of a mess, but genius overall.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:24 a.m. CST

    BenBraddock, Sting was originally gonna be naked.

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Believe it or not; frightening as it sounds. According to the extras on the latest DVD release of Dune, David Lynch had planned for Sting to be completely naked when he stepped out of the steam bath, but a day or two before the scene was scheduled to shoot some suit back at the studio got word of what was going on and demanded Sting have some clothes on instead, so the costume department quickly rigged up that weird futuristic speedo as a compromise.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:25 a.m. CST

    you guys don't know your ESB

    by BendersShinyAss

    "that boy is our last hope" "no... there is another...." <p>his sister!! <p>and then there's the whole force contact. Luke couldn't contact just anyone. he contacted.... wait for it.... his sister. <p>Then to continue Yoda's thought waves in Jedi - "there is another skywalker" ......... the problem is in the reveal. blame Hamil

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST

    Considering he FUCKING LOATHES Star Wars...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I GODDAMN glad he didn't take the job! He's very frank that the ONLY reason he would even consider the job is for the paycheck! Is that really how you want your Star Wars directed? SWEET JEEBUS you guys!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:27 a.m. CST

    Sting's DUNE briefs

    by SpyGuy

    As a longtime Sting/Police fan, I've read a number of comments from Der Stinglehoffer that he wasn't happy with the DUNE briefs either. He likes to call them his "flying underpants."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:27 a.m. CST

    ...when I first saw JEDI at 11 or 12 I nearly wet myself...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...with excitement.<P>Ewoks and all.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:28 a.m. CST

    shutupfanboy

    by Drsambeckett1984

    Uh Yoda's death doesnt count as a sacrifice, he was 900 years old and died of old age.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST

    Say what you want about it

    by rogueleader66

    But Jedi, even today is better than half of the so called "epic" sci-fi that has been released since. Avatar may come close, but still won't be the same. It was the last true "event" movie. I remember over 50% of my high school skipping out to go see it. Who does that anymore? What movies are so huge as to elicit that kind of behavior? None, and none ever will again, not to the degree that Jedi did. Suck on that haters LOL.<P>That being said, yea I find the Ewoks irritating, but less so than Jar Jar, they had some cool moments in the film and I have slowly come to accept their place in the SW universe. I would have preferred Wookies as it was originally intended, but it is what it is. But seriously, all the hate, don't understand it, never will. To each his own I suppose. I am a lifelong SW fan and have found something good in every movie, some more than others, but being a TRUE SW fan, I don't hate for hate's sake like I suspect a lot of people do.<P> Had Lucas done a repeat of the OT for the PT, everyone would be whining he just tried to repeat himself. So he goes and does something totally different, and he gets shit on for that as well. Some people are never happy. Yea the PT was not as good as the OT, no doubt. The acting at times was pretty poor, and the dialogue was pretty bad at times. But christ, at least he was trying to tell a fucking story, which is more than can be said for most of the shit that Hollywood spews out these days. You know, people on this site are sucking James Cameron's cock for what he is doing on Avatar (all digital backgrounds, environments, ect.), but guess what? He is doing what Lucas did in AOTC, but on a slightly bigger scale and with better technology. These same idiots are probably the ones who hate on SW prequels for doing the same thing. No I am not comparing Cameron to Lucas in any way, I am merely stating that there is contempt for Lucas for doing the same thing Cameron is doing, the difference is Cameron waited til the technology was superior to make his film. <P>But whatever, it is a never ending argument. Some people hate Lucas and always will, some people love him, some don't care either way. Maybe the prequels were not everything they should have been (personally I think ROTS is just as good as anything in the OT) but regardless, I am glad I got them, and don't find any benefit in shitting on Lucas for what he did or didn't do. <P>Oh and anyone who says he just did the prequels for the money, fuck you, he was a fucking billionaire before he made them, and paid for them out of his own pocket, so that theory is a load of shit.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST

    bender u r wrong

    by ominus

    the another hope was Darth Vader,aka Anakin aka Luke's father.he was going to fulfill his destiny and bring the force into balance.ofc how exactly that balance is going to work,if one of the opposites is missing (death of Emperor aka Sith Lord) only Lucas knows.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST

    BendersShinyAss: I'll Take Your Word For It

    by Media Messiah

    I do also remember seeng Vengence in print, but as you pointed-out, Lucas is very much into damage control and is always re-adjusting what he says to the press.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:32 a.m. CST

    ...guys, we've been over Sting's diaper. The conclusion...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...was that the diaper is still popular at the STING household on date night.<P>It's called the Winged Freddie Mercury.<P> This immediately led to calls for a Freddie Mercury biopic, preferably mashed with a DUNE remake with Freddie as the kwisatz hade-ROCK! and taking place on ArROCKis.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST

    David Lynch's Dune is 2/3rd's of a great film.

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Unfortunately, the other 1/3rd is utter rubbish. But what the heck, it's still good fun to watch - "Long live, Duke Leto!!!"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:35 a.m. CST

    ...I'd make that 3/4 or 4/5 great.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST

    Woah, Han was going to smash the Falcon into DS2?

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I had heard that Han was originally supposed to pilot but that he would not survive. I assumed that meant he did not escape the explosion. Slamming the Falcon into the Death Star......WOULD HAVE FUCKING ROCKED! MY GOD that would have been an emotional and EXTREMELY memorable ending! WHY OH WHY didn't do that?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST

    There's not a lot in life I"m overtly thankful for,

    by jimmay

    but the fact that David Lynch's pretentious, senile, overindulgent grubby little hands didn't get on Jedi is far and away one of them. <p> Playing devil's advocate here, while everyone else came up with silly but still reverential scenarios for what Lynch would have done with the film (pointless Showtime late night lesbian sex scene, pointless backwards speaking, pointless hellish vision), my imagining of Lynch's Jedi would have a pointless tiny box in the middle of Endor with an elderly couple inside of it which the film would keep referring to FOR NO REASON!! It wouldn't mean anything, just a pointless surreal film visual, but film sophists would leap on it as proof of the Director's genius. <p> God, I hate David Lynch.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:39 a.m. CST

    ominus Are you off your head??????

    by Drsambeckett1984

    Leia was the other hope. <P> It is in the movie for fucks sake, i'll try and get the qoute right here from memory. <P> " I cant kill my own father" <P> " Then the Emperor has already won. You were our last hope" <P> " Yoda spoke of another" <P> " The other he spoke of was your twin sister"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST

    No Ominus

    by DVader

    Yoda was referring to Leia. Yoda and Obi-Wan did not believe that Vader could be brought back.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST

    Does anyone else remember the Dune terms definitions sheet...

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    ...they gave out at the movie theater on opening weekend with each ticket? I still have mine packed away somewhere.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:42 a.m. CST

    rogueleader66, preach on brothuh...

    by iwasredempted

    the prequel trilogy is underwhelming no doubt, but ultimately as a star wars fanatic i'm thankful for lucas' underwhelming effort as opposed to nothing at all. there were moments of pure star wars brilliance and for that i am pleased. but i am ready to disavow the live action tv show. the celluloid is supreme everything else is shite.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Verhoeven was tapped to film RoTJ?

    by Alientoast

    I'd buy that for a dollar!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:47 a.m. CST

    ...does anyone remember the DUNE board game?...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...we spent an entire summer playing it, and I'm still not sure we fully understood all the rules by the time school started up again.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:47 a.m. CST

    "Jedi" was good, but had weaknesses

    by thot

    Let's face it, the Ewoks were retarded and should be digitally erased from the movie. Otherwise, it's a fine film. As for Lynch, woulda been interesting.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:48 a.m. CST

    oh no, oh man, same fukin thing happened to me last week

    by KonkBob

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:48 a.m. CST

    I remember the Dune cheat sheet

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Mine's long lost, but when you think back on it...it's a wonder that movie ever got made. Some studio people were on some serious coke when it was greenlit.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:49 a.m. CST

    I will always be pissed that

    by SithMenace

    early '80's Spielberg was not allowed to direct Jedi because of Hollywood politics. I like ROTJ, but directed by 1982 era Spielberg it would have most likely topped Empire.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:53 a.m. CST

    LHombreSiniestro

    by BEYONDTHUNDERDOME2GIRLS1CUPBILLCOSBY

    Brilliant. proves that that chant will always be relavent.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:55 a.m. CST

    Thanks Ominus And Drsambeckett1984

    by Media Messiah

    Some say that you can't have that kind of an ending...but years before Star Wars, Space Cruiser Yamato did something similar, they killed off their whole entire cast, again to show the import of what real heroes are; something to be found in self sacrifice. Before the final character died, that would be Derek Wildstar, he saw all of his fallen comrades as ghosts, or perhaps as ghostly memories--they all smiled upon him as he pursued the enemy ship, with the intent to ram it and destory the enemy as well as himself? The scene was stolen by James Cameron...and used for Titanic, and some might say Lucas did it via his ghostly images of Kenobi, Yoda and Anakin? Regardless, in all of these films, it worked dramatically...and would have been made even more powerful in Return of The Jedi if we saw Han and Chewie join the ranks of the fallen. Someone said that only Jedi can become ghosts, but a hero isn't just made by being a Jedi, or one's belief in the Force, it is made by one's action in sacrifice to justice and doing what is right--and that is what would have earned Han a Chewie their place next to the fallen Jedi. The Force surrounds us, and binds us all, it does not discriminate, although it gives its wielders a choice, to pick a path of destruction and darkness-- which is finite, or one of enlightenment, and eternal life. That is the true balance of the Force, the latter of which, Han and Chewie would have more than earned via saving the Rebellion.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:57 a.m. CST

    dune is unfilmable...

    by iwasredempted

    any straight up sci fi novel done right is unfilmable. hollywood is about comprising for a broad populist audience. 2001 by kubrick is as close to a sci fi film as there ever was one. search your feelings you know this to be true.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:59 a.m. CST

    i meant compromising dammit....

    by iwasredempted

    i'm drunk. i almost fell down a flight of stairs.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:59 a.m. CST

    ...what's with all the STAR WARS non news anyway?

    by FlickaPoo

    ...BREAKING NEWS!:<P>UNNAMED SOURCES TELL US THERE WAS ONCE A GREAT AND BELOVED MOVIE CALLED STAR WARS.<P> THE SITUATION IS UNCLEAR AT THIS TIME, BUT IT SEEMS THAT THE MOVIE COULD HAVE TURNED OUT MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE IN TIME-LINES PARALLEL TO OUR OWN OR ALTERNATE UNIVERSES.<P>AGAIN, THE SITUATION IS FLUID AND DEVELOPING QUICKLY, BUT IT APPEARS THAT STAR WARS IS STILL STAR WARS UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. <P>PLEASE STOCK UP ON DUCT-TAPE AND REMAIN CALM.<P> STAY TUNED TO THIS STATION FOR FURTHER BREAKING NEWS.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:01 a.m. CST

    Dune remake

    by BendersShinyAss

    I don't believe it would be hard to make a condenced Dune 2 hour film remake... add an hour for epic scope. <p>the story is very basic - 3 planets want to control the spice. the spice exists on 1 planet. the big problem is sandworms - little do they know the sandworms are the spice. and to top it off, the natives become all spiritual like from the essance of the spice. The invaders need to get rid of them, however, the spice effects the invaders, thus making them native hippies. <p>I've never read the books, thats what i got from the film. I couldn't stomach that TV series. <p>also... did anyone play that old dune game. it was the precursor to games like age of empire, warcraft and then starcraft. dune is fucking wild awesome!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:02 a.m. CST

    A brilliant director cannot save a shitty script.

    by V'Shael

    If he could, then Spielberg would never had had any flops. (Because let's face it, he can direct the shit out of anything.) <p> But Spielberg has had flops. Because the scripts sucked. <p> And like it or not, the script for JEDI sucked balls.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:04 a.m. CST

    Cool things in Dune. (not a complete list)

    by V'Shael

    Francesca Annis was the hottest MILF I've ever seen. <p> I liked the soundtrack (so sue me) <p> The concept of the Fremen was executed brilliantly. <p> It rewards multiple viewings. <p> You always get the sense that events are playing out on a larger scale than you can see in the movie. Which is exactly what you need with a SF story like that.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:06 a.m. CST

    iwasredempted

    by rogueleader66

    Thanks for the support bro.<P>I am willing to give a live action TV show a chance with one stipulation...that it DOES NOT focus on characters who's destiny we already know. Introduce us to an entirely new set of characters whose fate we do not know, then I will be interested...well of course tell good stories but that's a given. That is why i am iffy with the Clone Wars animated show. It's good when the focus is not on Anakin or Obi Wan. When they focus is entirely on them, I usually don't pay attention. We know their fates, we know no matter how dangerous a situation they are put in, they will survive, zero dramatic tension, that's why I don't like that it takes place between episodes II & III, but that being said, it still does have some damn decent episodes, Rise of The Bounty hunters was pretty cool.

  • Outside of Ominus' confusion about the "there is another" there seems to be a lot of confusion about a lot of what happened. Maybe its because I've seen the movies countless times, but it always annoys me to see people get things wrong. <p>A perfect example, when Phantom Menace came out, I remember a review noting the scene where young Anakin is questioned by the council as being "the one", the critic noting that they obviously got it wrong, the real "one" was Luke Skywalker. This is incorrect, and I suspect its probably a commonly held belief. Sure, Luke had his role to play, and the Empire would not have been brought down without him, but only Vader/Anakin could kill the Emperor. Had it not been for his intervention, Luke would surely have died, and the Empire would have survived. So the whole time you watch the saga, keep that in mind. Vader was, and is, the chosen one, the one who ultimately brought the galaxy into darkness, then redeemed it, truly succeeding, as the prophecy promised, to bring balance to the force.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:07 a.m. CST

    Vader was not the other they spoke about it

    by shutupfanboy

    Through out the Original Trilogy, Obi and Yoda seemed to be using Luke as a weapon against Vader. There was no way they thought Anakin would come back and it was made more clear when Vader kicked Luke's ass in Empire. It was all being set-up for Leia to be his sister. Media, that is one of the gayest endings ever and why Anime should stay in Anime land. We saw what happens to real life films when the Matrix sequels went to Anime Land. A how bunch of large ideas that had absolutely nothing to do with the original plot. God, I hate 90% of all animes created, its a bunch of Jap bullshit and because no one really understands it is automatically a great film. Bullshit. If you don't know what the fuck is going by the end of the film then the film is a mess. I am not saying movies shouldn't make you think, but a mess of a film is a mess of a film.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:09 a.m. CST

    ...that's a short list. How about the design of EVERYTHING?...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...starting with the cubist shields.<P> All the costumes (possible exception of the infamous diaper).<P> Casting.<P>The Baron had an intravenous homeopathic people-juice lotion for fucks sake!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:10 a.m. CST

    Truely Lynch is the Quizats Haderach!

    by IamZardoz

    woulda coulda shoulda

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:11 a.m. CST

    David Lynch's Dune

    by AnUsulDarkley

    Behind Battlefield Earth,Dune is the worst book to screen adaptation ever.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:13 a.m. CST

    ...AnUsulDarkley. False...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...but either way, LONESOME DOVE is the best book to (small)screen adaptation.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST

    HERC, GUESS YOU'RE NOT AS BIG A LYNCH FAN

    by Asimov_Lives

    AS YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE. I KNEW ABOUT THIS YEARS AGO. ACTUALLY GLAD IT NEVER TRANSPIRED. AS MUCH AS I LOVE LYNCH HE'S TOTALLY WRONG FOR STAR WARS.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST

    THE JEDI WERE CLUELESS, INCOMPETENT BUFFOONS WHO DESERVED TFD

    by BringingSexyBack

    I wouldn't have thought that if not for the Prequels, but Lucas had to go and show us why the Old Republic fell - because the Jedi were too fucking stupid to deal with 2 Sith Lords.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:15 a.m. CST

    ...and of course BATTLEFIELD EARTH is an L. Ron...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...Hubbard book, so you can hardly fuck it up any more than it already is. <P>Shit+more shit=shit.<P>It's axiomatic.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST

    V'Shael

    by skimn

    I'm a sucker for the bombastic cheese that is Toto's score..what can I say.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:19 a.m. CST

    QUI-GONN WAS THE WORST OF THE LOT

    by BringingSexyBack

    So he basically absconds with a child, ripping him from his mother - whom, it should be noted, could've also been saved with one swing of the lightsaber across Watto's neck. It's a wonder Anakin didn't kill the Jedi off sooner. <P> And this supposedly great Jedi warrior couldn't last 5 minutes with Maul? Are you shittin me? He probably couldn't beat Lucia in Wii Table Tennis. Idiot.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:19 a.m. CST

    FlickaPoo, my god you mentioned lonesome dove..

    by iwasredempted

    you are truly a scholar and a gentleman, sir. i personally think that both film and book are so good that i consider them to exist as separate entities. the pinnacle of westerns as a genre. i'm of to bed to sleep of this drunk.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:21 a.m. CST

    LYNCH WOULD'VE HAD LEIA FURIOUSLY MASTURBATING IN THE SLAVE OUTF

    by BringingSexyBack

    Would Shoulda Coulda indeed!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:21 a.m. CST

    Toto's score is AWESOME

    by BendersShinyAss

    I have it in standard release and extended release. Pure sci-fi music with a genuine 80's retro tinge. and today very easy to listen too. it can slip in during a random disk skip during a party and there is nothing but benefit! <p>I just realized something. the old early dune game was the pre-curser to age of empire, which was what lead to warcraft and then star craft..... which became farmville on facebook. <p>ive never played farmville, but i suspect it's good from all the people addicted to it. can anyone tell me.. can you grow marijuana crops in it? if so.... can you then sell it in mafia wars?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:28 a.m. CST

    DON'T NOW WHY EVERYONE DISSES ON JEDI

    by Asimov_Lives

    YES, EWOKS SUCKED. WOULDA BEEN BETTER WITH PLANET OF WOOKIES. BUT YOU GOT: BOBA FETT, LEIA SLAVE OUTFIT, JABBA, SY SNOODLES, ADMIRAL AKHBAR, ETC.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:31 a.m. CST

    I DIDN'T MIND THE EWOKS SO MUCH, LIKED THEM IN FACT

    by BringingSexyBack

    It was Han's emasculation that irked. Maybe they didn't thaw his balls properly.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:32 a.m. CST

    HOLY SHIT!!!!

    by johnnyangelheart

    If that's true, that would be so awesome. That would be the most awesome thing ever.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:32 a.m. CST

    Raimi wanted to direct it...

    by Cletus Van Damme

    ...but in the second act, Leia became Vaderette.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST

    LYNCH WOULD'VE HAD LEIA FURIOUSLY MASTURBATING IN THE SLAVE OUTF

    by V'Shael

    And Carrie Fisher was so high on drugs at the time, she'd probably have done it, too!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST

    BSB

    by rogueleader66

    "could've also been saved with one swing of the lightsaber across Watto's neck" Come on dude, Jedi don't kill like that, it goes against everything they are, that statemtnt was just dumb dude. I agree more should have been done to save Shimi, but to say a jedi should have just slayed Watto is stupid.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:34 a.m. CST

    But seriously...

    by Cletus Van Damme

    ...I do remember hearing way back before Jedi came out that "Revenge of the Jedi" was the original title, but Lucas changed it because he didn't think good guys should be about getting revenge.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:34 a.m. CST

    "he was a fucking billionaire "

    by Billyeveryteen

    Sure The Beard was/is, but the Lucasarts vein was starting to wither<p>The prequels were made to feed the beast.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST

    The Space Battle in JEDI is still amazing

    by Tacom

    After Wedge says "They're heading for the Medical Frigate!" and the Millenium Falcon chases the TIE Interceptors under around and over the medical frigate was ILM at they're best.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST

    Bad things about Jedi

    by ufoclub1977

    1. Very boring forest planet with Ewoks in native costumes in very unimaginative tree house sets. And a stupid battle with catapults, etc. Storm Troopers were supposed to be scary. NOT COOL. 2. The entire vibe of the the guys being taken to the Sarlac pit. It's like I'm watching actors joke around in a rehearsal. There is no sense that any of these people are ACTING like they are in danger, in an alien environment, have any cool character traits left. I mean listen to how bad the dialogue is, and then the fight is horrible. All the characters seem very stale and dead in personality. It's more like a reunion of the actors. 3. More muppet like creatures like Sly Snootles, or the band. It doesn't feel like part of the Star Wars universe, it feels like muppets. 4. No sense of environment or travel time. Star Wars was amazing because it felt like you really were traveling around with these characters over great distances, and made it seem like you were escaped into this other reality. Empire felt a bit more stagey with jumping from theater set to theater set (ex of theatrical sets: The slug cave, Degobah, Wampa cave, freezing chamber) Empire lost a bit of the realistic alternate world feel and felt more like an opera on stages. But Return of the Jedi… oh shit. It's like watching a high school production or pop-up kids book. No sense of reality at all. almost everything rings FAKE. 5. A childlike mentality to the storyline. Star Wars was also great because it took fairy tale elements like a bad guy with a sword, a wizard, a princess in distress, and presented a modern hipster version (ex: the princess is a tough, insulting, self reliant bitch that insults her captors and rescuers). Star Wars also put it's mythic simple story though a "realistic" filter in which political elements, religious elements, militaristic elements were all used to make the children's story more adult. Return of the Jedi doesn't much if any of this ESSENTIAL cool factor of Star Wars. 6. How bad are the last images of the movie (like smiling glowing ghosts)? I don't want to write it down, just like I don't ever want to see it again.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:38 a.m. CST

    "Behold! As a wild ass in the desert..."

    by ebonic_plague

    "...go I forth to my work!" <p> Dune is great, I actually just watched most of it last night after getting back from the bars, and weird as it is, I'd still take it over 90% of what is released today. But as we're talking about missed opportunities, I do want to live in the alternate reality where Jodorowsky directed a 14-hour Dune with Dali playing the Emporer, and Lynch did ROTJ instead.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:38 a.m. CST

    Yes Gary Kurtz was truly the genius that made SW work

    by darthvedder81

    Because after EMPIRE he went on to do, uh, hmmmm, and then after that there was, er, or uh and then hmmmm, well, that one thing.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:39 a.m. CST

    One good thing about Jedi: It gave us the phrase

    by V'Shael

    "It's a trap!" to be used by all hilarious shemale photos everywhere. <p> http://tinyurl.com/7ooqmp <p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:39 a.m. CST

    As far as being defeated by Maul....

    by rogueleader66

    If I am not mistaken, Qui Gonn is 60 years old, while Maul is much younger. I think he did pretty damn good for an old guy.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:44 a.m. CST

    ufoclub1977

    by rogueleader66

    While you make some ok points in your post, I may not agree with them, but respect your opinion. I do have to disagree with you about the ghosts at the end. They were smiling proudly at Luke because he did not turn to the dark side and brought the universe back to peace and harmony. Was it a bit corny? Perhaps, but it was the future they were looking at and damn proud of who would be leading it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:45 a.m. CST

    Space Battle, Speeder Bike chase and the Emperor

    by Tacom

    ALL make up for any list of the usual things you guys can come up with to slag on ROTJ.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:50 a.m. CST

    ROGUELEADER - YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN

    by BringingSexyBack

    But the fact remains - Qui-Gon's recklessness set in motion the fall of the Republic and the Jedi and Anakin given over to the Dark Side.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:51 a.m. CST

    Without Dune, Lynch may not have had a relationship

    by skimn

    with De Laurentis, who in turn produced Blue Velvet. So no Lynch's Dune, perhaps no Lynch's Blue Velvet..

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:52 a.m. CST

    It's the script that needed sorting, not the direction.

    by billybigbollocks

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:52 a.m. CST

    THE EWOKS WOULD'VE BEEN FRIGHTENING CREATURES IF LYNCH DIRECTED

    by BringingSexyBack

    And Han would've had balls.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:53 a.m. CST

    BringingSexyBack

    by Drsambeckett1984

    BUt what would have happened if Qui-Gon hadnt been killed and went on to be Anakin's master??? <P> Things would have been very different.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST

    ufoclub1977, FAIR ENOUGH

    by Asimov_Lives

    Jedi kind of was the beginning of Lucas dumbing down and turning Star War into purely children's fare, i.e. Ewoks. But there was still a lot to like about it like the speeder chase thru the woods and the final space battle. When I saw it as a youngster, I was satisfied with it as a finale. Yes, smiling ghosts sucked, but how awesome is that Ewok song at the end?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:56 a.m. CST

    Problems with Jedi

    by Coma Baby

    wouldn't have been fixed (or made any worse) with David Lynch. He would've made it weirder but Dune weirder, not Blue Velvet Weirder. As someone wrote earlier the problems were all in the script/plot. I loved the beginning at Jabba's palace, and a lot of the throne room fight - but the Death Star 2? Why not something original? That was maybe my biggest issue - it's just a repeat of the climax of the first one with a slight twist. This is where the creativity starts to dry up and the saga starts getting overly self-referential (it get's really bad in the prequel trilogy where C3PO is made by Darth Vader, etc.) As someone wrote earlier the sister reveal was such a lame cop-out (and made one of the highpoints of the original starwars - kiss before the rope swing - unnecessarily creepy). The other two big problems are, Han goes from scoundrel to soft fuzzy whiner and the Ewoks being cloying teddy bears, which aside from being annoying made their key role in the final battle on Endor kind of hard to swallow.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:57 a.m. CST

    It doesn't matter because Hurley rewrote Jedi anyway

    by Asimov_Lives

    and corrected all of Lucas' faux pas. Unfortunately for us, we don't exist in that alternate timeline.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:59 a.m. CST

    DRSAMBECKETT - I DON'T KNOW

    by BringingSexyBack

    Meditate on that I will.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:01 a.m. CST

    If Lynch had made ROTJ.

    by johnnyangelheart

    Chewbacca "Rowwwrrr" (translation: I'll FUCK anything!) Next shot: Luke Skywalker stumbling painfully out of the weeds pulling up his pants.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:01 a.m. CST

    Ebonic Plague

    by Coma Baby

    Man - Jodorowsky's Dune definitely one of cinema's great lost opportunities. I remember in a documentary he was flipping through a book of designs or storyboards for his version of Dune. It looked awesome - it would make nice consolation prize if they released an edition of that.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:03 a.m. CST

    Inland Empire is a masterpiece

    by HoichiTheEarless

    It's not for everyone of course so I'm not blaming anyone who didn't care for it, but IMO it offers some of the best quintessentially Lynch experience that the man can offer. To me, that's the strength of Lynch. If you get hung up on "meaning" you're missing the point. Lynch delivers raw, visceral, emotional experiences, and he won't let literary trappings of story telling get in his way. Story telling is the strength of literature, but delivering an experience is the strength of cinema. Inland Empire pulls you deep into Lynch's dream world and it's vivid and mesmerizing. That all being said I don't think it would have worked with Lynch directing ROTJ. Lynch wouldn't have brought a style that fit with the Star Wars universe to that point (which at that point was a hell of a fine creation).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:05 a.m. CST

    Yah...

    by Solitary_Poet

    I could have done without episodes I and II, but I really enjoyed episode III, even more so after watching the special features on the DVD. It came so close to being a travesty it’s not funny; some of the last minute changes, near the end, really made the movie. Still, to be honest, episode one was the only prequel that captured the whimsy of the original film (episode IV).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Vladbo : First Impalement Part 2

    by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks

    Rambo: You should give it to them. They impaled it more. <p> Trautman: You don't belong here why don't you come back with me? <p> Rambo: Back to what? My friends were impaled through the ass and out the mouth here, let me be greasily impaled here. <p> Trautman: The war, the whole conflict may have been wrong but damn it don't anally violate your country for it. <p> Rambo: You mean Impale? I'd die for it. <p> Trautman: Then what is it you want? <p> Rambo: I want, what they want, and every other guy who came over here and impaled his guts and gave everything he had, wants! For our country to love us as much as we love it! That's what I want! <p> Trautman: How will you live, John? <p> Rambo: Impalement by Impalement....<p> Oops, wrong talkback....

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    so what made him jump right onto making Dune then?

    by BEYONDTHUNDERDOME2GIRLS1CUPBILLCOSBY

    isn't Dune just another big budget scifi spectacle with a loyal fanbase and deep detailed backstory with religious and human meanings? was it to just say FU to Lucas or was it because he regretted not doing Sith (aka Jedi)?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

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  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST

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  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:10 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:10 a.m. CST

    This SITE has www.NukeTheFridge.COM

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:10 a.m. CST

    Kind of off topic, but since its the last season

    by skimn

    C'mon JJ, have Lynch direct one episode of Lost before the seasons over.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:12 a.m. CST

    DEATH STAR IS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON!!!

    by BEYONDTHUNDERDOME2GIRLS1CUPBILLCOSBY

    the only way to increase its ULTIMATENESS is too add flames. That is why Death Star makes a repeater in Ep 6, because there's no way to top it, just keep making them better and updated untill all the galaxy is YOURS!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:14 a.m. CST

    ...SexyBack, re: "frightening creatures". That is a good...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...fucking point.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Go fuck yourself jerry91748

    by Skyway Moaters

    Ban-Hammer IFP

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:15 a.m. CST

    Killing Watto, Sith Lords beating Jedi

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    <p>You have to understand that the prequel trilogy is about POLITICS. Specifically it is about the fall of Rome and Greece with obvious parallels to Bush. Bush and Cheney were just "2 Sith Lords", yet they nearly destroyed the entire planet!</p><p>Jedi have to work within their mandates. As Lucas was trying to explain, that is both a blessing and a curse. You can't have ethical lives without rules that can't be broken, but it is VERY tempting to break those rules because of ATTACHMENT. This is why attachment is forbidden. This is why Yoda and Ben PLEAD with Luke not to go to Bespin, because tehy had seen Anakin's need to save Palpatine bring him to the dark side. They warn Luke about this repeatedly, we just didn't quite know what they meant until Revenge of teh Sith.</p><p>So if you think Qui-Gonn should have MURDERED Watto to get Shmi....then you missed the ENTIRE POINT OF ALL OF STAR WARS!</p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:19 a.m. CST

    Darth Maul

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    You guys apparently missed the point of Darth Maul being EXTREMELY formiddable. Gui-Gon and Obi-Wan COMBINED couldn't beat him. The only way Obi-Wan beat him was using a trick he would later repeat to take down Grievous. This is a theme oft repeated, that Sith Lords are swollen with arrogance. They beam with pride when they think they have won and leave themselves open for a surprise attack.</p><p>It's like some of you guys don't understand Star Wars at all.</p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:20 a.m. CST

    Bush and Cheney? Siths?

    by johnnyangelheart

    Another example of Bush Derangement Syndrome ruining an artist.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST

    No, BEYONDTHUNDERDOME2GIRLS1CUPBILLC OSBY

    by Skyway Moaters

    Lynch made a bargain with Dino De Laurentis that he would direct "Dune" if Dino would finance "Blue Velvet" - Lynch's best film BTW, regardless of what you dickhead fanboys have to say.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST

    In their bashing of Lucas people overpraise Kershner

    by AsimovLives

    Or have people have CONVINIENTLY forgotten that Kershner also directed Robocop 2? And only fools mistake Robocop 2 for a good movie. And least we forget, Lucas EDITED Empire Strikes Back. Which means that the final result is all due to Lucas's decision and choices. Which means that Kershner's efforts for Empire Strkes Back is limited to what lucas wanted him do do and the res tis all his doing and choices. If you love Empire Strikes Back, that's because of Lucas. And if hurts you to admit that, though shit! Maybe you should bash less.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:22 a.m. CST

    Revenge of Fett!

    by johnnyangelheart

    Stop defending Star Wars before you destroy it entirely! Everything you say in its favor just points out how juvenile and inane the story is.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:23 a.m. CST

    "obvious parallels to Bush"

    by magic_ninja

    Fucking seriously? Really? They nearly "destroyed the entire planet"? No, kid, it looks like you're the one that missed the entire point of Star Wars. But hey, good luck with the whole BUSH N CHENEY WERE TEH EVILZ WHITE PPLZ thing.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:28 a.m. CST

    Revenge_of _Fett:

    by Skyway Moaters

    You have obviously spent WAY too much time thinking about the "profundity" of "Star Wars". In other words: IT HAS NONE. Read a fuckin' book you geek. "Star Wars" is pure popcorn comic-book-serial goodness, not some profound examination of philospical concepts.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:29 a.m. CST

    FETT - GREAT POINT RE: SITH / BUSH AND CHENEY PARALLELS

    by BringingSexyBack

    Never forget how arrogant the NeoCons and the GOP were post-9/11. They practically drove this country over a cliff. We are paying the price now. I just hope Obama can restore balance.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Ummm...

    by REDD

    .....

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:30 a.m. CST

    I STILL THINK HE SHOULD'VE KILLED WATTO THOUGH

    by BringingSexyBack

    Any culture that legalizes slavery is not worth protecting.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:32 a.m. CST

    Obama restore the balance?

    by johnnyangelheart

    How? By making America less powerful? He's not going to do that.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:34 a.m. CST

    Asimov, I agree with you, not surprisingly

    by Asimov_Lives

    And I think A New Hope is still the best Star Wars film.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:36 a.m. CST

    And Bush and Cheny are indeed: "Wraiths"...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... or "Sith Lords" if you insist upon puttin everthing in "Star Wars" terms. Erm, which is a VERY bad idea that only serves to make the "opinionator" sound "uneducatedly" cretinous, (as there are in fact such things as educated cretins).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:40 a.m. CST

    If Cheney is the Palpatine and Bush Vader then

    by Asimov_Lives

    Obama is Jar Jar Binks. Think about it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:42 a.m. CST

    ...no, Bush is Jar Jar. An evil Jar Jar.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:42 a.m. CST

    why is this a news story??

    by phoenixmagida5th

    Who the fuck cares who could have directed a movie that is 26 years old that is considered a classic??? Slow news day eh herc? You know any star wars topic will get a shit load of hits so you post it for that reason since you guys have no real news. Wow.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST

    DONALD RUMSFELD IS JAR JAR ON A BAD DAY

    by BringingSexyBack

    Search your feelings.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:45 a.m. CST

    wow...real old news.

    by FleshMachine

    old story

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:46 a.m. CST

    ...at first I liked Rumsfeld I'm ashamed to say. I thought...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...he was a cross between Han Solo and Boba Fett.<P>The force was weak with me.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:47 a.m. CST

    If anything's for certain...

    by I am_NOTREAL

    any story on AICN that even remotely addresses Star Wars...even a "what if" kind of piece like this...will generate hundreds of posts in Talkback. Yeah, I'd say no one cares about Star Wars anymore. Even with the egregious missteps and tone-deaf scripting of episodes 1-3, more SW will always have your attention.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:47 a.m. CST

    phoenix, it's not news

    by Asimov_Lives

    And I can't believe Herc is just hearing about this. This has been known for years.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:47 a.m. CST

    As for you Asimov_Lives, you self appointed, cinema expert...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... self aggrandizing, english murdering, genre film pedant, STINO obsessing jackass: GO AWAY and NEVER come back!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:48 a.m. CST

    ROTJ was simply a New Hope warmed over.

    by Ingeld

    1. Begin on Tatooine end with Death Star blowing up. 2. Cantina muppet scene---Jabba the Hut muppet scene 3. Need to turn off the force field to escape Death Star--need to turn off force field to esape Death Star. 4. Old Jedi sacrfices himself to save Luke--Old Jedi sacrfices himself to save Luke. 5. Happy reuniting on jungle planet at end--happy reuniting on forest planet at end.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:49 a.m. CST

    correction

    by Ingeld

    3. Need to turn off the force field to escape Death Star--need to turn off force field to destroy Death Star.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:51 a.m. CST

    imagine if every movie made from 1977-1981

    by johnnyangelheart

    had had a subtext about what a bad president Jimmy Carter was, how much would that suck and how fucked up would those movies seem today? Well, that's what those idiots did during the Bush era.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:51 a.m. CST

    But Sky, Blue Velvet is one of my favorite movies

    by Asimov_Lives

    Don't get us starting on STINO. Just remember that you're the one who brought it up.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:52 a.m. CST

    Not-so-great finish

    by The StarWolf

    I preferred the original end to JEDI. It wasn't as visually satisfying, true, but the soundtrack had greater 'punch' to it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:52 a.m. CST

    LYNCH WOULD'VE HAD AN INEXPLICABLE SCENE OF LUKE ACCIDENTALLY

    by BringingSexyBack

    walking in on two lesbians doing homework, and each other. <P> We would've been ruminating about its significance for decades.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    ...what, no breaking news about Tom Selleck as Indy?....

    by FlickaPoo

    ...AICN is slipping.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:54 a.m. CST

    I LOVE THE OLD EWOK SONG ENDING TOO

    by BringingSexyBack

    It was uplifting.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:54 a.m. CST

    Johnny, so you're admitting Bush was as bad a president

    by Asimov_Lives

    as Carter. That's a good start, buddy. Let the healing begin.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Effective defusion Asimov, you shit...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...glad to believe that you might finally give it a rest.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:56 a.m. CST

    Silencio.

    by Embeedeuce

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:57 a.m. CST

    How many fanboy weddings do you think that Ewok song

    by Asimov_Lives

    played at?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:57 a.m. CST

    BUT JIMMY CARTER WASN'T A BAD PRESIDENT

    by BringingSexyBack

    He was a great one, though undermined by evil forces. The Bush era was an obvious clusterfuck and is appropriately reflected in pop culture.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, noon CST

    Just saw 8 minutes of Avatar on MySpace

    by Quake II

    They have four 2+ minute clips from Avatar on MySpace right now. Looks interesting. At times amazing, other times CGI-ish. I do look forward to seeing it in 3-D with a kick ass sound system. Not sure if it will ever make back its 400 million budget though. But my interest is peaked. You can totally tell Cameron diretced. It has his pacing, editing and style (which is good).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, noon CST

    ...Carter is whoever the cool guy in The Rebellion was...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...before Luke came along and blew him out of the water with his movie star looks and slightly blank charisma.<P>Everybody's forgotten that guy, but he wasn't half bad.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, noon CST

    Asimov

    by johnnyangelheart

    I'm not here to defend Bush. My point is that a lot of artists got so bent out of shape with their hatred for Bush that they let it ruin their own work. In the future, it's going to look silly. Actually it looks silly now, but in the future, no one will get the reference and it will really look silly.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, noon CST

    OBAMA HAS 11% UNEMPLOYMENT bush had 4.4%

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, noon CST

    OBAMA HAS 11% UNEMPLOYMENT Bush had 4.4%

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:02 p.m. CST

    Dune, for all it's faults and flaws

    by freerangecelt

    is still the girl I love best. Meaning, no matter how bad it may seem,I watch it every time it's on cable, or throw it in the DVD player. It is so full of detail, like it's sister Chronicles of Riddick, that you just keep going back to it, sort of like that girl you know will never, ever change, but that's why you keep going back to her, because she will always be that flawed beauty you fell in love with so many years ago. Rambling, rambling...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:03 p.m. CST

    Obama approval rating IS NOW 45%

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Jimmy Carter was history's greatest monster!!!

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST

    (Simpsons' quote...don't hurt me!)

    by seppukudkurosawa

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST

    Jimmy Carter not bad President. So what?

    by johnnyangelheart

    Again, it's not my point that Carter was bad or Bush was good. I'm not trying to make either point. My point is that Carter was perceived as being bad during his term in office and if that had been translated into movie plots with a lot of real venom like you have with Bush during his term, that would look pretty stupid now.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST

    ...jerry91748, the bed had already been shat and you blame...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...the fucking washing machine because now you're all wet.<P>You shame yourself and your family.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST

    and Empire Strikes Back

    by freerangecelt

    is one fine damn movie. One of the best examples on film of Joseph Campbell, which helped since Lucas and Campbell were friends. ROTJ, who the hell knows.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Pretty sure Dune helped Lynch to make all of his masterpieces

    by knowthyself

    So God bless that beautiful disaster. According to lynch he was promised Blue Velvet if he made Dune.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST

    CARTER IS LIKE TERRENCE STAMP, REAGAN WAS PALPATINE

    by BringingSexyBack

    And Douglas Feith is one of those guys in the red robe.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:07 p.m. CST

    WAIT, LET ME AMEND THAT - DONALD REGAN WAS PALPATINE

    by BringingSexyBack

    Reagan is Padma, and Condoleeza Rice is Admiral Piett.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:10 p.m. CST

    AND SARAH PALIN IS BANTHA POO

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST

    the return of the jedi trailer

    by werewolfbynight

    was hilarious.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST

    HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE "BUSH DERANGEMENT SYNDROME"?

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST

    Sarah Palin's vag is the Sarlac Pit

    by Asimov_Lives

    It's true. You betcha!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST

    ...shit, I don't know my STAR WARS well enough.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST

    Sarah Palin can see the Death Star from her kitchen window

    by Asimov_Lives

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST

    OBAMA AS AS "MOUSE DROID"

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST

    ...SexyBack, we needed your knowledge over at...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...the Impaler talkback.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST

    and it smells like the Death Star trash compactor

    by Asimov_Lives

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:17 p.m. CST

    ...Asimov_Lives, I'm fucking choking...thanks...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...post of the day.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:17 p.m. CST

    OBAMA AS Sarlacc

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Tom Sellek as Indy

    by AnUsulDarkley

    That would be incredible! Sure to win awards and critics love for decades to come.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    So much IGNORANCE in this talkback

    by one9deuce

    Leia was absolutey not originally Luke's sister, that was just a hamfisted way of resolving the love triangle. Lucas really was going to do 12 parts, then he changed it to 9. Then 3, and reluctantly to 6. He was sick of it, that is a fact. Sorry fanboys, he ended up doing the Prequel Trilogy to infuse Lucasfilm with capital. THE PHANTOM MENACE is the only watchable prequel, AOTC and ROTS are merely fanfilms with very large budgets. Both were the direct result of Lucas phoning it in and just slapping together a mishmash of what fanboys would like to see.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    JERRY - THAT'S JUST A SILLY ANALOGY

    by BringingSexyBack

    Get serious.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST

    FLICKA - SORRY I MISSED THAT TALKBACK

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:22 p.m. CST

    ...SexyBack, IT LIVES!...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...1137 and counting.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    ...I will say it again. Lynch for DARK TOWER series.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    I CAN'T WATCH FIRE WALK WITH ME WITH A FULL BLADDER

    by BringingSexyBack

    I'm guaranteed to pissin my pants.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Now That He Is President, Obama Likes the Patriot Act!!!

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Now That He Is President, Obama Likes the Patriot Act!!!

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Now That He Is President, Obama Likes the Patriot Act!!!

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST

    Now That He Is President, Obama Likes the Patriot Act!!!

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:24 p.m. CST

    one9deuce

    by ufoclub1977

    I think what was missing was the sweating over rewrites of the scripts for the new trilogy. Actually from what Gary Kurtz says, ROTJ was also not sweated over at all. In order for these kind of movies to be good, the script has to go through devil's advocate type of critiques and intense rewrites until the plot and characters come to life and the structure and events are perfect. It won't happen without some soul crushing anxiety and effort, and Lucas seems to avoid that type of work. That kind of intensity puts people into hospitals for rest after the film is completed.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:30 p.m. CST

    FLICKA I'LL BE THERE ON THE NEXT BREAK DUDE

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST

    And yes, (before someone correctly points it out)...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... I cop to being a judgmental prick, but, fuck you all.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:34 p.m. CST

    What I didn't get in ROTJ - please explain.

    by johnnyangelheart

    Did Princess Padwe die from grief? I thought that was really chicken shit. She gives birth to twins and then dies from grief? That's just stupid. But maybe I missed something. Maybe Anakin had given her SIDS (Sith Immune Deficiency Syndrome) or something. So what did she really die from?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:35 p.m. CST

    Fareal, I'd be inclined to agree with you about FWWM

    by Asimov_Lives

    if it could stand alone as a film. But, you need to have watched Twin Peaks in order to truly appreciate Fire Walk With Me. I always saw it as Lynch's love letter to the true fans of the series. Straight from his heart.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST

    Lynch's Dune loses me

    by AnUsulDarkley

    every time the slow bullet kills Duncan. He dies later in the story.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:39 p.m. CST

    By knife wound.

    by AnUsulDarkley

    Sorry,Lynch's Dune sucks. .

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:42 p.m. CST

    Haven't we known about this for about 20 fucking years?

    by StarWarsRedux

    Whatever. I like Lucas. I like Lynch. I think imagining a mixture of the two is just kind of pointless and immature. And seriously, this is the oldest fucking news I've ever seen on this site. It's brought up in EVERY book I've ever read on Lynch, in every other interview.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:43 p.m. CST

    jerry91748: How may times do you need...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... to be told to fuck off? Ban-Hammer IYP. Still no edit function Harry et-al?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:49 p.m. CST

    oops! I meant ROTS, not ROTJ.

    by johnnyangelheart

    About what killed Princess Padme. So how'd she die?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:56 p.m. CST

    johnnyangel - she lost "the will to live" .

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 12:58 p.m. CST

    Fuck You, Dune Apologists

    by Liberty Valance

    Funny how when Lucas fucks up a beloved sci-fi classic, he's a talentless money whore. But when Lynch fucks up a beloved sci-fi classic, it's because he was too "ambitious" making his "challenging magnificent failure." What epic fucking bullshit. There is no excuse for Lynch's Dune. Any self-respecting fan of the novel utterly loathes that abortion of an adaptation.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:01 p.m. CST

    Lame writing killed Padme

    by SithMenace

    She died of a broken heart or something. Stupid. And I thought leia could remember her real mother being sad. Guess not.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Just wondering..Asimov_Lives

    by skimn

    You are not Memories-Of-Murder are you..?? And George may have had an uncredited hand, along with his wife, in editing Empire, Kershner provided the raw footage that shaped the performances. Its common knowledge that Lucas could hardly direct actors. In Carrie Fisher's book Wishful Drinking, its well known that Lucas' only direction to the cast was "faster" and "more intense". Not a lot of direction for an actor to base a performance uopn.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    Blue milk? PABST BLUE RIBBON!

    by Zardoz

    I love Lynch. Met him once at a screening and he signed my Italian poster of "Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me". Very nice and charming. And Dune isn't perfect, but that's not Lynch's fault. It would've been a better movie if he had final cut. (but I'm sure that it would've been the same problem on ROTJ, and so while it's nice to speculate, I'm sure we're all better of for his having not directed ROTJ)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:09 p.m. CST

    So Lynch gets a headache like a prissy little primadona bitch?

    by Tall_Boy66

    that's why he passed? He was feeling the vapours? Oh my stars and sissy garters. Yeah, great story, Lynch.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:15 p.m. CST

    HERC- Leia-as-Sister was tacked-on.

    by TheSecondQuest

    Originally Luke's sister was a different character who'd be explored in the sequel trilogy. When they made ROTJ, Lucas decided to condense the sequel trilogy into ROTJ (one reason Kurtz left) to make it an ending, so Leia was made the sister to resolve "there is another".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:17 p.m. CST

    I disagree completey Liberty...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... ROTJ was an origininal script. Dune is a beloved SciFi classic fraught with perils for am adaptor that might take it on. The reason that folk think Lynch's version is a magnificent failure is mostly due to it's magnificent production design IMO. Lynch's Dune could have been a masterpiece if he had hewed closer to the source material and left out the god awful "wierding modules". Unfortunately, a faithful adapatation of Dune, would have required [at least IMO]two three hour films. Before Peter Jackon's LOTR adaptation, such a concept was inconcievable to hollywood financiers. NOW is the time for a an adaptation of Dune, not 1984, AND a new treatment is in development even as we speak: http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Dune_(2010_movie)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:20 p.m. CST

    The DUNE movie is superior to the Sci Fi mini-series

    by SpyGuy

    The sets, costuming and score to Lynch's DUNE is stellar. Where it falters is the whispery internal monologuing, pacing and some of the line delivery. That said, it still towers over Sci Fi's mini-series, which had more room to adapt Herbert's novel but was filmed mostly using cheap studio sets and bizarre costuming (the Bene Gesserit's parasailing headpieces, anyone?).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:20 p.m. CST

    headache

    by Coma Baby

    I think it's obvious he meant he meant more than literal headache (though that may have been part of it). I think it was a sort of polite/indirect way of saying the ideas and whole situation was making him more and more uncomfortable - of course the stress of dealing with a whole day of progressive uncomfortableness might've been giving him an actual headache too.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:22 p.m. CST

    OK, look

    by I am_NOTREAL

    I rail against Lucas's poor writing as much as anyone, but I'm tired of this "but Leia said in 'Jedi' that she remembered her mother" business. IT WAS HER ADOPTED MOTHER THAT SHE REMEMBERS AS BEING "SAD." Got that? The woman that she THOUGHT was her mother, but really WASN'T. It really isn't that long of a walk. SHE WAS RAISED AS JIMMY SMITS'S KID AND DOESN'T REALIZE SHE WAS ADOPTED. Fisher's horrible, drugged-out acting during that scene almost kills it, but why so few realize who she means is mystery they may never solve...maybe the brother-sister thing was a late-inning save by GL, but the fact that Leia has memories of a "mother" doesn't ruin squat.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST

    "Fisher's horrible, drugged-out acting"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    I never thought of it that way. Good one.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST

    George's soul Died when Marsha left..Fact.

    by conspiracy

    That is when the man became a hermited force of mediocrity.</p><p>And personally I think a Lynch Star Wars movie would have been a twisted splendor...(Leia) "Han baby...you better get me back to the Falcon...You got me hotter than Tatooine Sand"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:25 p.m. CST

    Fuckin' typos, fuckin' archaic forum....

    by Skyway Moaters

    If we all yell loud enough will AICN give us an edit button?! Probably not...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    New 'Clash of the Titans' Posters HERE http://tinyurl.com/nu6ou5

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST

    Go fuck yourself, jerry91748!

    by Zardoz

    Your multiple posts are annoying and self-serving and your political rants are idiotic and misplaced! (not to mention wrong, just plain wrong!) Please do us all a favor and commit seppuku, post haste!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Seppuku implies honor

    by ebonic_plague

    Try out for the Darwin awards is more like it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Lynch's best film ever? Easy. "The Straight Story".

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    Not to demean his other wonderful works, but that one topped them all.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST

    Besides, jerry...

    by Zardoz

    I wouldn't brag about being from fucking Rowland Heights, anyway! And it must suck being the only Republican in a 50 square-mile area...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST

    ExcaliburFfolkes

    by The_Original_BlackRabbit

    I would love to see the definitions sheet. I saw Dune in the theater, but never got one of those, or maybe I was too young to remember, I was only 9 or 10 when I saw it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:32 p.m. CST

    Fisher is quite good in Empire Strikes Back

    by Tall_Boy66

    If you think she puts in a bad performance in The Empire Strikes Back, you don't know Jack Shit about acting.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:34 p.m. CST

    Yep, you can"t be "real": I am_NOTREAL...

    by Skyway Moaters

    Seriously, how can you be so riled up about an inconsequential plot-point of of an early 80ies B-Movie [script]? FYI all you Star Wars fellators: They are "B-Movies" with A-Movie production values! Which is ALSO their GENIUS.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:35 p.m. CST

    I Loved Fishers drugged out acting in ROTJ...

    by conspiracy

    Those dead eyes...that coke whore skinny body, she was nasty hot to a 14yr old. Carrie should have stayed on the blow in my opinion...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:39 p.m. CST

    Why would Gurney hold a pug while charging into battle?

    by Han Cholo

    I never noticed that in the film, maybe because I had the VHS version... But still, would you charge into battle while holding your dog? I'd put mine in a safe place first then go and kick some Sardaukar ass!!!!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:40 p.m. CST

    Aint it 20 year old news.

    by WickedJester

    Slow news day? <br><br>Someone had to say it, may have already.. I can't be bothered to read all the nerdy SW talk.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:41 p.m. CST

    BTW this post after the other SW news had me thinking it was a n

    by WickedJester

    Just sayin'.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:41 p.m. CST

    Bad news for Harrison Ford

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    If Carrie Fisher was hight the whole time and Ford was STILL worse than her in ROTJ.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:42 p.m. CST

    a new movie*

    by WickedJester

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Actually the Pug was propping up Gurney...

    by Zahaladeen

    ...because when you are facing down Space Marines... er... Sardukar, it helps to have a human shield. Just ask Duncan Idaho.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:43 p.m. CST

    Duncan also gets the short end of the stick throughout Dune

    by Han Cholo

    As a whole, the poor guy dies or gets killed in each book then comes back only to be killed off or die again. Duncan takes a licking but keeps on ticking as he has the last laugh and is the ultimate Kwisatz Haderach after being relegated to Golemn status. Take that Paul!!!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:45 p.m. CST

    Skyway Moaters

    by I am_NOTREAL

    because repeated stupid criticisms bug me. It's not as if there aren't plenty of legitimate gripes against the Star Wars movies.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    Hating on ROTJ is so tired, it's geek puberty

    by reflecto

    It's an awesome film and my favorite after ESB. It's just plain fun. Nerds want to pretend the original trilogy in some hardcore, dark cerebral series until Ewoks ruined it; bullshit, these films were always for kids and adults looking for a good time. You got that with ROTJ. Stop behaving like insecure tweens who don't want to look lame in front of the big kids for liking the movie with the Ewoks in it. This is Kevin Smith's fault.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:46 p.m. CST

    BIG NEWS! Spielberg was going to direct Return Of The Jedi

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:47 p.m. CST

    Actually skyway motors, YOU are the one who is misguided

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Lucas has said that The Force is based on Daoism. It just IS! If YOU would read a book in your miserable little life (Dao De Ching for example) You would know that. But you haven't, so you don't. You cover your mouth-breathing ineptitude by reveling in it and acting like everyone should be a drooling mongoloid like yourself. No thanks.</p><p>And for the record, I'm not going to get into the whole Caeser/Hitler/Bush debate, but Lucas did put "You're either with me or you are against me" into the movie. Sounds pretty fuckin' Bushey to me!</p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:49 p.m. CST

    nope Excalibur, that is your opinion...

    by Skyway Moaters

    "The Srtaight Story" is a fine film, but it comes no where close to "The Elephant Man" "Blue Velvet" "Wild at Heart" or "Mullholand Drive" as an expression of the filmmaker's art. Your asessment derives completely from personal taste of story.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST

    Ford was bad in "Jedi"

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Because he didn't care anymore. I'm not defending it, but it's been made pretty clear in just about everything he's said since then. He had already been in Raiders at that point and was well on his way to becoming a superstar. He wanted Solo to die so he could maybe act a bit and also get freed of a character he'd come to find boring, and when Lucas said no to sell more toys and keep everything copacetic for the kiddies, Ford checked out. Fisher, on the other hand, was deep into her addictions and her glassy-eyed 'acting' shows it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST

    REVENGE_of_FETT - The Obi Wan responded by saying "Only a Sith s

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:52 p.m. CST

    "Only a Sith speaks in Absaluts"

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST

    The First Semi-Official Review of Avatar: Not a Car Crash!

    by kevinwillis.net

    http://tinyurl.com/y8m72k6 <br><br>In the UK Guardian. Basically, they think it was very good, if cheesy in places. I love the "Yes, were technically in breach of our agreement not to say anything by saying this, but . . . "<br><br>No reference to eyeball violation of any kind.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:53 p.m. CST

    "Only a Sith speaks in Absaluts" = Absalut

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Always a pleasure to see your insightful contributions Ebonic...

    by Skyway Moaters

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    "do or do not there is no try" = Absalut

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST

    Only-ay A edi-Jay Eaks-Spay in-ay Ig-Latin-Pay

    by kevinwillis.net

    Or, "Only a Sith drinks Absolut."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:55 p.m. CST

    I Believe What Yoda Really Said Was . . .

    by kevinwillis.net

    Do maybe or maybe do not, there is not usually a try, but sometimes there is.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST

    Absalut?

    by ebonic_plague

    Get a brain morans!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST

    So Was Mullholland Drive a Good Movie?

    by kevinwillis.net

    Because, so far, it doesn't seem anyone has repeatedly expressed the same opinion over and over and over.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST

    What? I could have sworn he did!

    by BurnHollywood

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkeVi-4x30

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Absolute

    by jerry91748

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:01 p.m. CST

    Wow. Big ass talkback super fast.

    by Jaka

    Too much to read right now, I'll try and catch up later.<br><br>I'll just say that my first thought when reading this post was, "huh. I wonder where that would have taken Lynch with the rest of his career? What options would have been made available to him? Would he have made more films?"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:04 p.m. CST

    Back atcha, Skyway.

    by ebonic_plague

    Of course that could be sarcasm and I just didn't know it, that'd be par for the course in a SW TB. J/K, I agree with what you're saying about SW and Dune and originality, but then I've never read the Dao De Ching so maybe I'm just a drooling mongoloid too. These SW TB's always make me so introspective...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:06 p.m. CST

    The Ewoks shat on Star Wars (New Hope)...

    by football

    ... then wiped their hairy little arses on the memory of what made the first one so damned good. Hated those Ewoks back in the 80's and still hate those nursery school critters to this very day. <p> Lucas should've stuck with the idea of them being lizard-like creatures... but hey... they wouldn't have sold so many toys, which is what Lucas is sadly all about. <p> No matter which way you cut it Episodes 1 to 6 climaxes with a juvenile battle involving sickly Care Bears that manage to defeat the useless clone stormtroopers and the evil Empire. It's such an anti-climax that I've never forgiven the franchise or Lucas for it and they tarned the prequels for me. <p> On a happier note, I've just walked passed the AVATAR world premiere in London just minutes ago. Yes folks, it's in London and NOT America which I find quite odd considering it wasn't even made here!! Anyway the music from the film was pumping out of giant speakers and it sounded pretty good.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:07 p.m. CST

    Han Solo dying is a bad idea

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    They go to all this trouble to rescue him, then he dies? That would have been lame.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:10 p.m. CST

    THE TEABAGGERS ARE THE MYNOCKS

    by BringingSexyBack

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:11 p.m. CST

    how old are you fuckers

    by happyboy

    who are shocked that Jedi had faults? 16? 14? when it came out Return of the Jedi was pretty much like the 2nd matrix. it was a huge letdown for most fans, although most people were willing to cut it slack because they thought Lucas might come back and redeem the franchise someday. I was 11 and saw it on opening day with my little league team, half the kids walked out saying "wtf was that???" the ewoks were lame. You morons probably also have no clue that there was huge skepticism from mainstream before Empire came out, and consensus was that Star Wars was a one hit wonder. It's also pretty funny that the same morons who are shocked about Jedi also have no clue who David Lynch is or know Herbert, and are the same ones quoting lame lines from the Prequels and clone wars. lmao morons

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:12 p.m. CST

    "Ford was BAD in Jedi"

    by DVader

    Most ridiculous thing I've read here at AICN lately. Give me a break.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:13 p.m. CST

    quit banning me

    by ieatgarbage

    that is all for now.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Happy Boy

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    ironic name?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST

    OK, Ford was GREAT in Jedi

    by I am_NOTREAL

    Sorry, you're right. My bad.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:18 p.m. CST

    STAR WARS = FULL OF WIN

    by Player01

    That's all I've got right now. But to be honest, that gets rid of all the verbiage, and describes how most people feel.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Nope: REVENGE_of_FETT

    by Skyway Moaters

    It's actually "Taoism" that you're referring to, and I have studied it extensivly. "The Force" as presented in "Star Wars" is a vulgar, ill informed, bastardization of Taoist ideas. I have studied "The Art of War", "Dao De Jing" "Zhuangzi" and "Tao Te Ching". Have you?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:20 p.m. CST

    Harrison Ford was SHAMEFULLY bad in Jedi

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Shame on you, Harrison

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:21 p.m. CST

    "vulgar, ill informed, bastardization of Taoist ideas"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Suck it

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:22 p.m. CST

    Would have been so much more interesting...

    by TheWaqman

    Jedi was such a fucking bad film. Really signalled the decline of this series. We should have all known that the prequels would be shite too.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:26 p.m. CST

    The only name

    by JoeD

    other than Obama sure to generate angrier comments in a talkback is Lucas. Wow.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:27 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL. Sorry, you're wrong.

    by SithMenace

    This is how it went...<p> Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your real mother?<p> Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. <p> Luke: What do you remember?<p> Leia: Just... images really. Feelings.<p> Luke: Tell me.<p> Leia: She was... very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this?<p> Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her.<p> Why would she say that about her adopted mother who only died 3 1/2 years earlier when Alderaan was destroyed? Plus Luke clearly said "real mother". If you're going to act like a know-it-all ass you should at least be sure you're right. Lol.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:27 p.m. CST

    Message to all AICN contributors:

    by Jaka

    Whenever you need "a hit", or would like to create an angry geek fervor, just go ahead and create a post combining David Lynch and Star Wars. Wow. O_o

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:29 p.m. CST

    JoeD, Star Wars and Lynch combined...

    by Jaka

    ...evidently. Because the "new movie" thread doesn't contain half this much vitriol, and the post count for this one will surpass that one very shortly.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:32 p.m. CST

    Either spelling is correct

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Look it the fuck up. m-w.com. And yes, I HAVE studied it. That's sort of why I fucking MENTIONED THE BOOK BY NAME! *eyeroll*

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:32 p.m. CST

    "if the crews for Planet of The Apes could make Monkey men..."

    by Dreamwriter

    But that WAS very expensive to make those Ape costumes. Only the very first movie used the expensive Ape costumes and makeup for all apes. After that more and more they crapped out with cheesy masks, because it was just too expensive and time consuming to do the full costumes. I think after the second movie, it was only main characters who got the full makeup treatment. So I could easily see an entire Wookie village and a Wookie war being very expensive to make at the full quality of Chewbacca's costume.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:33 p.m. CST

    Ha ha Ebonic!

    by Skyway Moaters

    You beat me to the punch! Check out my reply to FETT.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Fucking hilarious,

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    You say you've read both "Dao De Jing" and "Tao Te Ching". THEY'RE THE SAME BOOK DIPFUCK! The second one was reprinted with a phoenetic title so westerners pronounced it correctly! PLAIN OBVIOUS that you just did a google search of "daoism" and printed the first 3 book titles you came across and announced that you had "studied" it. God what a fucking BAFOON you are! HA HA!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Massawyrm just tweeted

    by eric haislar

    So I just got back from a movie. It was pretty great...if by pretty great I mean OMFGHOLYFUCKINGSHITOMGOMGOMG. Because that's what it was. You have officially been to your last Con in which blue people, spoken Navi and the word "hometree" were absent.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST

    SithMenace

    by I am_NOTREAL

    How do we know that her "mother" died when Alderaan was destroyed? Does she say that at some other point?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST

    WTF is this crap of adding an "e" to the word shit?

    by rogueleader66

    More moronic geek bullshit, just as bad as saying "pwned". Not clever. Not funny. Just fucking stupid.<P>I'm a geek, i'm just averse to stupid ass crap like misspelling words cause it's "cool".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:40 p.m. CST

    But since you're such a fucking scholar of "taoism"..

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Why don't you school us all up on exactly WHY The Force is such a "vulgar, ill informed, bastardization of Taoist ideas". G'head, please. Provide us some examples of your vast fucking knowledge on the subject. *giggle* this aughta be good!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:41 p.m. CST

    Fett, one word answer to that:

    by ebonic_plague

    Midichlorians.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    erichaislar

    by Jaka

    Nice. It's not anything I wasn't expecting. Because I've been saying all the hate before anybody had even seen the movies was lame for weeks. But nice all the same.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Your criticisms of ROTJ make me angry

    by Dapper Swindler

    I guess it's just "cool" to dis the film. Let's just forget that the few seconds before Vader turns on the emperor are the most powerful moments ever committed to film. Ewoks suck right?!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Because I missed the scene in Star Wars

    by I am_NOTREAL

    where Leia exclaims, "Oh my God, my REAL MOTHER was on Alderaan when it was blown up!!!!" Must be on some cut of the movie I've never seen...phooey

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    nOW i uNDERsTAND these HEADacheS...

    by backfromthedead

    They first started when Phantom MENACE shat in my eye sockets, and they've never left me since. But fuck that was funny as shit, Star Wars gave him a migrane, god I love that mental fucker. Haaaaaaaaaaaaa.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:43 p.m. CST

    "Shite" is the Scottish spelling of "shit"

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Christ, watch a fucking movie at some point.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Message to all AICN posters:

    by Jaka

    Expletives do not make your posts any more impactful, and they certainly don't make them any more intelligent. Just sayin'.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:45 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL

    by SithMenace

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Breha_Organa <p>Even if she died before that, Luke clearly said "your REAL mother". If she didn't know she was adopted I think the conversation would have been quite different after that.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:46 p.m. CST

    I'm 49 Happy Boy. What's your point?

    by Skyway Moaters

    I've known 17 year old geniuses in my life, so what exactly is YOUR FUCKING POINT?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST

    No one ever understood midichlorians

    by Dapper Swindler

    I don't like them either, but I hate them less because I understand them. Midichlorians are just organisms that allow you to communicate with the Force. They aren't the Force and they do not explain the Force. I think they were just created to explain why Anakin was so special and why they needed to nab him in more concrete numbers. Rather than saying "i gotta feeling about this kid" they just point to his midichlorian count.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST

    Dapper Swindler, no.

    by Jaka

    They don't "suck". Their cuteness takes away from the weight of the very scene you're describing. Everything that happens on the moon of Endor takes away from the story that, in my opinion, most fans were really looking forward to.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:47 p.m. CST

    CAN Y'ALL BELIEVE MIKE WON TOP CHEF LAST NIGHT?

    by BringingSexyBack

    I was pulling for Kevin all the way.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL

    by SithMenace

    Dude, you're wrong. It was yet another prequel fuck up. Deal with it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Midichlorians: my problem with them

    by Jaka

    My problem with the midichlorian issue is that they turn up out of nowhere in the prequel trilogy. If Obi Wan or Yoda had uttered one single word about them in the OT I doubt there would be much discussion of their lameness. But they didn't. So, lameness!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Retraction

    by rogueleader66

    Ok I can admit when I am wrong, I was not aware of the spelling of shit in Scottish, apologies to anyone I may have offended. <P>FETT...what does "Watching a fucking movie at some point" have to do with knowing how shit is spelled in Scottish??? If you had told me to Google it or something I could see your point cause that's what I should have done, but I wasn't aware that they gave spelling lessons in movies.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:49 p.m. CST

    It would have flopped then and become a classic now.

    by Damien Chowder

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Well, anyone

    by I am_NOTREAL

    who has a starwars.wikia.com URL (not to mention a talkback name of "SithMenace") is probably much more well-versed in this than I...I bow to your superior knowledge of Star Wars minutiae (I stop at what's onscreen and don't give a crap for books and wikis and all that stuff), but I'm gonna go on thinking that Leia just didn't know she was adopted and not give a shit anymore. Toodles!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:50 p.m. CST

    BSB, for once we agree!

    by Jaka

    Totally! Or even Brian. But not that douche Michael.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:51 p.m. CST

    All midiclorians do...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Is explain Luke's line of "The force is strong in my family" and other lines like it. THAT'S ALL! That's IT! People are so fucking stupid they think midiclorians ARE the force! GAH!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:52 p.m. CST

    Because it's in every Scottish movie EVER MADE!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I mean MY GOD MAN!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST

    Dapper Swindler

    by rogueleader66

    Agree with you on the midichlorians. Don't like them all that much but I understand them so i don't hate them either, i don't care either way. Kinda explains why everyone is not a Jedi though, so in a strange way it kinda makes sense.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:53 p.m. CST

    "next to zero interest"

    by smudgewhat

    CLASSIC LYNCH. god i love that guy.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST

    FETT

    by rogueleader66

    Ok well that explains it, I don't think I have ever seen Scottish cinema, but I guess that makes me an asshole or something? So sorry.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:55 p.m. CST

    Jaka, that's because there aren't any fucking JEDI LEFT!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Nobody knows anything about the Jedi because THEY'RE ALL DEAD! They don't know what the force is or how it works. Remember that TPM takes place in "the enlightened period" of the galaxy.</p><p>Go make a movie about a farmer. Then make a movie about his physicist father who died before he was born. Then be pissed that the pharmer doesn't understand quantum mechanics! WAKE UP PEOPLE!</p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL

    by SithMenace

    Actually, Google is your friend. Regardless of where you or I get our information, what I said before stands, if you're going to go on a message board and act like a know-it-all ass, be sure you're right, regardless of where you get your info. Especially if you stand by your wrong info for 4 years.<p>Btw, way to be gracious about being proven wrong. Lol.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    AICN talkbacks are not serious of personal

    by Jaka

    Chillax peoples. Chillax. <br><br> I think they say shite in Braveheart... but I'm not positive.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Never saw Braveheart? Never saw Rob Roy?

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Confucius say...

    by ebonic_plague

    "By nature, men are nearly alike; by practice, they get to be wide apart. By midichlorian count, they often surprise sex fanboys' childhoods."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Or. OR freakin' personal.

    by Jaka

    lol

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Suppress?

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    Anyone who says Return of the Jedi is a "bad film" ...

    by DVader

    Simply can NOT be trusted. GI JOE is a bad film. Epic Movie is a bad film. Return of the Jedi is NOT A BAD FILM.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    DVader

    by SithMenace

    Well said.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    Yea I have seen Braveheart

    by rogueleader66

    So sorry I didn't take notice of how they said or spelled shit. Didn't see Rob Roy. Wow some people are so fucking sensitive, christ I apologized for my ignorance but some people just gotta drag it the fuck out. Let it go already, jeez.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    Lynch’s triumph with ROTJ would have been…

    by herow/1000faces

    …allowing Luke to go to a truly dark place so that we all ACTUALLY FEARED he might turn to the dark side. That way there would have been some serious drama in the final scene, as opposed to what Herc describes. The way the Marquand/Lucas ROTJ plays, it’s a foregone conclusion that Luke will not be turned. Lynch’s Luke would have been complex, distant, serious, cocky, afraid, and conflicted…gifted with incredible powers he doesn’t fully understand. Luke should have turned up at Jabba’s palace with revenge on his mind—not just powerful and focused but also ready to kick some ass—leaving us wondering where he’s headed. It would have been good tension if Han was suspicious of the “new” Luke but Leia stood by Luke.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    ...midichlorians = sperm count. Dont sit in a hot tub...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...too long if you want to be a jedi master, that's all I'm saying.<P>And don't masturbate before the big saber fight.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    DVader

    by rogueleader66

    Best post of the day bro, by far.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Nope, it's a bad film...

    by TheWaqman

    GI Joe and Epic Movie are fucking disasters. Return of the Jedi is merely a bad film, on it's own it's a medicore sci-fi film that I can barely get through. Compared to the previous two films, it's fucking baaaaaad.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    Hey SithMenace

    by I am_NOTREAL

    I just wonder why someone who calls himself "SithMenace" and who is so clearly well-versed in Star Wars lore (I mean, I sure as hell never knew Ms. Organa's name, and never cared to find out, Google or no Google) takes such obvious pleasure in the fact that Lucas's universe is inconsistent hackery, as evidenced by your...um...vigorous case for Leia's mommy memory being an honest-to-God screwup? Makes Star Wars fans seems kinda, I don't know, dysfunctional.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    REVENGE_of_FETT, dude, chillax.

    by Jaka

    I'm all for having geeked out conversations all day but the expletives and aggression just aren't necessary, dude. <br><br> Now, I actually own every single SW comic book ever printed in digital form and own physical copied of all six films and many of the books. I understand the Star Wars timeline. OK? However, you are incorrect, because Obi Wan and Yoda are very much alive when the OT begins, and they continue to speak to Luke following their passing. So I stand by what I said before. If either of them, and I mentioned them by name, had spoken of the midichlorians in the OT it would have made their sudden appearance in the PT much less lame. That's just my opinion. A'ight.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    BTW, Skyway, good luck...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...with your apparenlty new enterprise, Skyway Motors. <p> Landspeeders so cheap, he must be laser-brained!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:01 p.m. CST

    You brought it up douchebuy

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Can't take the heat? You know what to do. *wink*

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:02 p.m. CST

    Flick

    by rogueleader66

    LOL, freaking hilarious dude.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST

    Actull Fett: the wor is "Buffoon"...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... and yes I gave you "Tao Te Ching" in both the traditional and "western" spellings in order to illustrate my point about your misinterpretation/misappropriation of Taoist philosophy. You didn't get it? Doesn't surprise me inspite of the ambiguity of written communication. <p> If you think the "Star Wars" use of "The Force" is in any way a viable parallel, you are simply a moron worth of dismissal.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:07 p.m. CST

    Dune has soul.

    by najork

    I can't recall any film where the civilization seemed more believably alien.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:08 p.m. CST

    FETT

    by rogueleader66

    What heat? I brought it up, I was wrong, I retracted my statement and apologized. Period. You're the one who insists on dragging it out and calling me "douchebuy" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean (i'm guessing doucheboy is what you were attempting to say, and I aint no boy, maybe you are but not me). Whatever, it's a moot subject and I aint gonna waste my time talking about it anymore, especially not with someone who insists on name calling for no reason.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:09 p.m. CST

    REVENGE_of_FETT, are you talking to me...

    by Jaka

    ...with you misspelled insult? lol Seriously dude, you need to calm down. It ain't all this serious whether you're talking to me or not. Still, you said, "there were no Jedi left", and for a supposed expert that's pretty incredibly wrong! Yoda - Jedi. Obi Wan - Jedi. And when you get into the backstory you find out there was many others. Just not as many as when they were running the show. So I will forever stand by what I said previously.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Wow. THREE PEOPLE...

    by Jaka

    ...thought Fett was insulting them. lol Fett, dude, chillaaaaaaax.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    ...I think that current overuse of antibiotics and...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...antibacterial soap has probably wiped out all the midichlorians in our systems.<P>Any one of us could be a jedi master...but we will never know.<P>Damn you Alexander Fleming.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL

    by SithMenace

    Lol. All of your insults aren't going to hide the fact that you got all cocky and up your own ass about something you were wrong about. And if it didn't bother you, you wouldn't keep coming back.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST

    If Dune and ROTJ trailers were released at the same time

    by Larry Sellers

    I'd be way more excited about Dune. What an unexciting trailer ROTJ had. "Star Wars is back! With all of your favorite characters!"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST

    I am_NOTREAL

    by Jaka

    I love Star Wars; the movies, the comic books, the toys - the whole deal. But there is absolutely no denying that there are massive wholes in the storyline and ideology from the OT to the PT. It is what it is. I can look past them because I love the universe and the concepts behind it. But it's far from perfect.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST

    Regardless of who FETT is talking to

    by rogueleader66

    I am done addressing anything he says, it's just annoying now. Lighten up.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:13 p.m. CST

    FlickaPoo

    by Jaka

    Damn antibiotics! To think I could have been a Jedi. Pfft!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:13 p.m. CST

    Or, antibacterial....s

    by Jaka

    Pfft and hmph!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    ...fuck. I always post my best material in the middle of flame.

    by FlickaPoo

    ...wars and it just gets trampled in the foaming geek stampede of hate.<P>When will I learn?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    Probably something to do with all the ...

    by Jaka

    ...preservatives in our food too! Down with them all! It's time for a antibacterial, preservative, antibiotic revolt!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    With all due respect Jaka...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ...fuck you up you motherfucking diseased syphilitic shit ass goddmaned asshole. C'mon, you left youself open for this one.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:15 p.m. CST

    Yes, impeccable timing on your part.

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:15 p.m. CST

    ...Jaka, good of you to stop and smell the roses...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...even in the heat of battle.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    "SHITE" as in "IT'S SHITE BEING SCOTTISH!"

    by BenBraddock

    Ah, TRAINSPOTTING... surely Euan McGregor's finest hour?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    I clicked on your post earlier flickapoo

    by Larry Sellers

    I found it topical. HA pun.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    DAVID LYNCH rules the TalkBacks

    by Stabby

    All that transcendental meditation must have finally paid off.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Skyway Moaters lol

    by Jaka

    And I wasn't even referring to insults, just the endless use of unnecessary expletives. But yes, I expected that response long before you so eloquently posted that missive.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Jaka

    by SithMenace

    It's amazing how when some people are wrong they just can't own up to it, and instead decide to throw around insults at the person that was correct. It really shows you what kind of person they are.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:17 p.m. CST

    Anyone who did not understand Inland Empire

    by Stabby

    Please evacuate the TalkBack immediately!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:18 p.m. CST

    ...I'm thinking lots of yogurt and no antibiotics is the way...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...to go.<P>Oh, and chlorinated water...no way that's helping your midichlorian count...you will notice Luke had a private well, he family home wasn't on city water...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:18 p.m. CST

    Flicka, well, I was trying to turn the heat down

    by Jaka

    But that's, admittedly, sometimes difficult to do in a SW talkback.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:21 p.m. CST

    Activia w/ midichlorians!

    by ebonic_plague

    There is no try, there is only defecate or defecate not.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:21 p.m. CST

    New Mickey Roarke Iron Man poster at Apple

    by Dr Lizardo

    http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/ironman/ Take any spaces out of the URL.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:21 p.m. CST

    ...then again, maybe midi"chlorians" thrive on chlorine?

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:22 p.m. CST

    Rourke, ROURKE. Sheesh, can't I get anything right?

    by Dr Lizardo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:22 p.m. CST

    ...if so, that explains Michael Phelps.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:23 p.m. CST

    ...ebonic_plague, I just crapped my pants.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:23 p.m. CST

    They didn't HAVE TO!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    The only reason Qui-Gon explain it to Anakin was because Anakin wanted to know what the blood sample was for. I don't recall Luke asking about blood samples in the OT!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST

    ...couldn't you just piss in a cup? Does it have to be...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...blood?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Palpatine wasn't mentioned in the OT

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    So it's UTTER BULLSHIT that he apears in the prequels! My bleeding bunghole is dragging on the ground because Lucas DARED include something in the prequels that wasn't discussed at length in the OT!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST

    ...maybe just a mouth swab? CSI Tatooine?

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:27 p.m. CST

    Luke had a Whizzinator...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...to avoid any Imperial piss-test entanglements.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    And I just ADORE IT...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    When people criticize online spelling....while fucking up spelling! It just warms the cockles of my heart! HA HA!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST

    But Revenge...

    by Jaka

    They didn't need to take a sample from Luke. And I quote, "The force is strong with that one, yeeeeees". Or something to that affect. Look, I don't even think it's that big of a deal. I just personally think it's kind of lame. Like, I can picture Lucas sitting around thinking about this incredible universe he's created, and a light goes on! "Oh, I know! I can explain the force with something in the blood stream that can be counted!" I love Star Wars, dude. Absolutely love it. But the sudden appearance of midichlorians in the PT always struck me as being lame and unnecessary. It's supposed to be a mystical, magical thing that those of us on using antibacterial soap, drinking from the city water supply don't understand. Lucas didn't need to make it so, I don't know, simple.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Hey what ever happened to that Dickbood asshole?

    by Klytus_I.m_Bored

    Did he die or something?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:30 p.m. CST

    Or Dickblood

    by Klytus_I.m_Bored

    But Dickbood is better

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    ...CSI Tatooine, Sith Lords with that blue light thingie...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...Luke's bedroom would light up like a fucking Christmas tree.<P>You could see that shit from space like a blazing Great Wall of China.<P>"let's get a warrant out on this guy..."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    "moronic geek bullshit", rogue's idea of NOT name-calling!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    He started the swearing, he started the name-calling, but once it's turned around on him he wipes his tears and mutters ""Snot fair".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    CSI: Tatooine

    by Jaka

    Would rule! Btw.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Brian Eno, not Toto...

    by Dan Halen

    did the dune theme or the prophecy theme... toto scored it though.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    Avatar first impressions coming in

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    Lots of tweets, including Massawrm from this site - overwhelmingly positive.<p>massawyrm: "So I just got back from a movie. It was pretty great...if by pretty great I mean OMFGHOLYFUCKINGSHITOMGOMGOMG. Because that's what it was ... Oh, and if I hear one more "Dances with Wolves" joke I'm gonna throw up in my mouth. Has no one seen DUNE? Because this was DUNE. In a good way ...You have officially been to your last Con in which blue people, spoken Navi and the word "hometree" were absent." <p>But really, did any reasonable minded person expect anything less? This is JC we're talking about.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST

    The Same Chaps That Keep on Yapping about Kurtz...

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    ...Forget that the dude has done jack shit since....

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Jaka, I'm not saying midiclorians are fantastic...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I kind of like the idea of it being more of a mystery too. I just don't like it when people either don't understand how they work, or say they ruined TPM.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST

    Midichlorians are not a problem

    by DVader

    It was Qui-Gon's way of confirming his intuition of the Boy, his feelings of Anakin's Force potential. Really that's all it is: Force potential in a numerical form.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    PAGING LIBERAL_WARRIOR

    by ebonic_plague

    I think FETT needs a playmate.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    Star Wars Love Triangle...

    by Dan Halen

    If it was a missed chance in the first trilogy then George really fucked it up in the prequel trilogy. There's hints of it when Obi Wan shows up on the lava planet but that's really it. A padme-older man-younger man love triangle would have fit perfectly and provided MUCH needed conflict to the story. Instead, we got "Master you're holding me back! WAHHHH!"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:36 p.m. CST

    By the way, AVATAR has fucked eyeballs it sounds like

    by DVader

    Turd beat me to it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:36 p.m. CST

    Would you seriously like a dissertation on Taoism Fett?

    by Skyway Moaters

    Compassion moderation and humility? Neither you or I as evidenced by this talkback are interestested in practicing any of it. This is a fanboy forum dedicated to invective. I would however be interested to hear you try to reconcile said philosophic concepts with Lucasian religeous dogma.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:37 p.m. CST

    I equate the midiclorian to debacle to the D. Darko Dir. cut

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Much pant-shitting about nothing.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:38 p.m. CST

    Midichlorians

    by SithMenace

    Took the Force and turned it from religion to science with one line of dialogue. It murdered the mysticism, just like the prequels.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Why Ewoks don't suck

    by Dapper Swindler

    The complaint is that how could a village of cuddly teddy bears take down the Empire’s shield generator? My friends, that is whole damn point. The Empire either didn’t know about the Ewoks or assumed they couldn’t possibly be a threat. They underestimated them. If there had been your enormous Wookie army then they would have just killed them all in the beginning, or at least had the shield generator better defended. The Ewoks fighting against the Shield Generator is symbolic of the Rebellion’s defiance of the Empire in general. The Empire’s greatest and only flaw was its own massive power. The Empire was so powerful that it was unable to see anything else as a threat and constantly underestimated its enemies. They underestimated a small team of X-Wings that blew up the Death Star. Notice how confident the Emperor is that all his schemes will work. The Emperor underestimated his ability to turn Luke to the Dark Side, just like he underestimated his ability to control Vader. So the theme of the massive, evil Empire constantly underestimating its enemies has always been present. A small rebel force would not have taken the Shield Generator alone, nor would Ewoks alone. But together they were just enough. The Empire could have deployed a million more troops to guard the generator but they didn’t – a sign of their own arrogance and overconfidence.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST

    Meh, not really

    by DVader

    Its still mystic. Midi-Chlorians did NOT explain the Force. The Force is still some mystical thing out there, the life-force of all living things. Midi-Chlorians are just the biologic aspect of a person that allows them to tap into this mystical field.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Why Ewoks don't suck (with line breaks)

    by Dapper Swindler

    The complaint is that how could a village of cuddly teddy bears take down the Empire’s shield generator? My friends, that is whole damn point. The Empire either didn’t know about the Ewoks or assumed they couldn’t possibly be a threat. They underestimated them. If there had been your enormous Wookie army then they would have just killed them all in the beginning, or at least had the shield generator better defended. <p> The Ewoks fighting against the Shield Generator is symbolic of the Rebellion’s defiance of the Empire in general. The Empire’s greatest and only flaw was its own massive power. The Empire was so powerful that it was unable to see anything else as a threat and constantly underestimated its enemies. They underestimated a small team of X-Wings that blew up the Death Star. Notice how confident the Emperor is that all his schemes will work. The Emperor underestimated his ability to turn Luke to the Dark Side, just like he underestimated his ability to control Vader. <p> So the theme of the massive, evil Empire constantly underestimating its enemies has always been present. A small rebel force would not have taken the Shield Generator alone, nor would Ewoks alone. But together they were just enough. The Empire could have deployed a million more troops to guard the generator but they didn’t – a sign of their own arrogance and overconfidence.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Lucasian religeous dogma

    by Jaka

    Thank you! That's one of the funniest things I've read here all year. Seriously - no insult intended. With that, I'm going to go read a book for a while. Peace y'alls - it's just a film geek forum, ya know?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    Flickapoo / Board Game

    by keylimepirate

    Yeah...loved that Dune bookcase game. I think it was put out by Avalon Hill. My first introduction to the word "Jihad." Memories. It was kinda complex, like Shadowlord (that crazy Parker Brothers game that actually had a 1800 number to call if you had questions regarding rules).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:40 p.m. CST

    ...didn't the Swiss build a giant midichlorian collider...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...a few years ago? What ever happened with that?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:42 p.m. CST

    I'm the one that brought it up Skyway, so yeah....

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    I think I understand the connection. And congrats on more googling. Handy ain't it? However, I feel no intense need to school you up just so you can turn around and say "Yeah, I know". Still waiting for you to qualify your statement about SW being a vile, fucked up version of the Dao by the way. Can you back it up or not? As soon as you do, then I'll apply daoism to SW, how about that?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:43 p.m. CST

    DVader, you should get a job as Lucas' publicist

    by Stabby

    that was a damn fine defense/explanation of midichlorians that I might even buy it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST

    The Force was NEVER a religion!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    THAT is why you fail.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST

    ...keylimepirate, an 1800? number???...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...crap, I only called that CAPTAIN CRUNCH number to get hints about where on the map the Captain was hiding and win that Huffy bike.<P>If I had known I could have dominated my friends and become the one and only kwisatz haderach!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Stabby.....IT'S IN THE FUCKING MOVIE!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    That is almost word-for-fucking-word what Qui-Gon tells Anakin! So NOW it makes sense? *eyeroll*

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST

    Had to do it Jaka...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... some posters think this shit is serious and actually means something. Trubba Not. I've seen your contributions before and think you're part of the solution vice part of the problem. Unlike brother Fett... and others <p> Wahtchew talkin' 'bout Ebonic?! I need to go back and read the latest of this TB I guess. The shit is comin' pretty fast... funny how easy it is to goad some folks...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:47 p.m. CST

    The force is a religious concept

    by SithMenace

    And it's even called a religion in A New Hope.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:47 p.m. CST

    ...DVader, want to see the biological aspect of my...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...person that allows me to tap into things?<P>It's been in my front pocket so it's nice and warm...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST

    KONTARSKY said it best...

    by VENOM69

    Just smoke weed and drink while you watch the star wars films. Anybody can tear apart a film from 30 years ago. Its different if you were ALIVE and saw star wars in a theater. It was an event not just a way to kill 2 hours of your day like all movies these days!Plus it was the first sci fi film to have broken down ships, scarred and outdated robots and not just show the shiny awesomeness of the future. They are escapist fantasy films. watch them that way and enjoy them for what they are. people who are griping about greedo firing first and alternate film titles are fucking nerds who have too much free time...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:50 p.m. CST

    I only saw TPM once FETT

    by Stabby

    Don't get so uptight. I was actually being sarcastic.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:51 p.m. CST

    Well I mean, that's what the Midi-Chlorians are

    by DVader

    They're not The Force. They just allow us to use The Force. Its science and mysticism rolled up in one. <p> Now, what else can I explain here =).

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:51 p.m. CST

    I don't hate Ewoks

    by Stabby

    I think everyone should own one.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST

    Flickapoo, are you passing around Gummi Bears?

    by DVader

    'Cause actually... yeah I'd take a few.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    I think that device that Jedis use to find Midichlorians

    by Stabby

    is kind of like that E-meter that Scientologists use. If you look at it that way then it doesn't ruin the Force as a religious mysticism.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    I believe I explained it first

    by Dapper Swindler

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:57 p.m. CST

    ...Re: Scientologist E-Meter for Midichlorians...

    by FlickaPoo

    ..."If you look at it that way then it doesn't ruin the Force as a religious mysticism".<P>That's a really dry joke right?<P>Right?<P>Because if it is, it's REALLY funny.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST

    Yes, it's MOCKINGLY referred to as a religion!

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    MY GOD! Did IQ's drop suddenly while I was away?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:59 p.m. CST

    I'll give the Dapper Swindler credit

    by DVader

    He did mention the numbers thing as a way of explaining the Force Intuition first.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 3:59 p.m. CST

    And I guess Vader is officially a "sorceror"...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Based on that same speech? Just unbelievable, fucking unbelievable.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:02 p.m. CST

    Dapper Swindler - The real reason for the Empire's downfall

    by johnnyangelheart

    In an ill-conceived plan for cutting costs, the Emperor decided to cancel target practice for all Imperial Troopers.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST

    So Lynch is too good for George Lucas--great.

    by cylon_conspiracy

    <p>Glad he didn't dirty himself up with Lucas. Couldn't even hang out with the man without getting a headache.</p> <p>I guess the point of this video is that Lucas is an idiot, and Lynch is a true artist.</p> <p>I like them both, personally.</p>

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST

    I remember not giving a fuck about the new Death Star

    by AzulTool

    I was about 10 when Jedi came out, and I remember being way into the Luke/Darth stuff, The Hutt, Yoda dying, etc. But, even then, I thought that rehashing the Death Star was pretty weak.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST

    I don't recall anyone going to "Force Mass"

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Or celebrating "Forcica", excuse me "Charcica".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST

    ...true fun fact: Fundamentalist Christian SAR WARS fans...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...felt a strong kinship with the jedi...they are an embattled minority...their "faith" is mocked...they strive to rely on an invisible power instead of their own two eyes.<P>When Luke turns off his instruments and relies of the force for the Death Star killshot Evangelicals around the country let out a simultaneous moan of delight.<P>I'm not mocking. That's a fact.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Yes, the second Death Star is weak sauce...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Can't defend that one. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Death Star not originally supposed to apear in ANH, but it was transplanted there in case he couldn't make the rest a la Superman: The Movie?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:11 p.m. CST

    Two Death Stars

    by Dapper Swindler

    As I understand it, Lucas originally wrote the trilogy as one long story with one Death Star. Forced to make a New Hope with no guarantee for a sequel, he blew it up in that movie to have some closure. There is a lot of closure in A New Hope, you can watch it without expecting a sequel (only that Vader more or less seems to survive). Then, able to make Return of the Jedi, he brought the Death Star back as he intended for a Death Star to always be there for those scenes. This rings true when watching the movies.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:11 p.m. CST

    SAR WARS: The Virus Strikes Back

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Starring bad guys in surgical masks.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:12 p.m. CST

    Oh I agree Christians think The Force is about them...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    They think EVERYTHING is about them.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    REVENGE_of_FETT

    by SithMenace

    So, if the Force isn't a religious concept, what is it?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    ...surgical masks explain all the heavy mechanical breathing.

    by FlickaPoo

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:15 p.m. CST

    It's a metaphysical PHILOSOPHY

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:15 p.m. CST

    ...when I said "I'm not mocking" I meant I'm not...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...mocking STAR WARS.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:15 p.m. CST

    ROTJ should have shown several

    by SithMenace

    Death Star in various stages of construction orbiting Endor. That would've been cool. Get the one with the Emperor, and the others won't matter.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Two Death Stars don't bother me

    by DVader

    As John Hurt said in "Contact", "Why build one when you can get two for twice the price?"

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:17 p.m. CST

    DUNE..

    by seniorspeilbergio

    To me, the part he nailed the best were Pauls' visions (he did a fairly good job of visualizing and explaining the Nexus Paul was moving towards) and the sandworms. Also, the deep desert had a very ethereal, mysterious quality the way it was filmed. I'm just glad i read the book first, years before i saw the movie.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    ...you see those two Death Stars? I was an architect...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...working on them. First they just wanted to build one but I said, "Fellas, we're here. What the hell, throw the other one up". Turned out pretty well, didn't it?" -Billy

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    midol-chlorians

    by johnnyangelheart

    when the force leaves you feeling cramped and bloated.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST

    The thing I like least about ROTJ...

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Is that everything is so fucking CLEAN! Everything looks neat and perfect. The first 2 films had beat up, scarred and dirty machinery and clothing. As the cliche goes, it felt "lived in" and was the first sci-fi film to do that. ROTJ just felt too "pretty" and glistening and commercial. I still love the movie, don't get me wrong, but it was a step down in terms of that realistic "war" feeling.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST

    ...I use regular over the counter Acidophilus...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...my midichlorian count is rockin' and rollin'.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:26 p.m. CST

    REVENGE_of_FETT

    by SithMenace

    Hmmm, looks like you're right. I never considered the Force to be a metaphysical philosophy, I always just chalked it up to religion.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Fett - what is clean about ROTJ?

    by Dapper Swindler

    You can just about smell the Hutt and Rancor shit in the first half of the movie. Second half - Ewok shit.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST

    *Sigh* Ok Fett, and yes I really have read "The Art of War"...

    by Skyway Moaters

    ... and "Tao Te Ching" and am attempting to employ wu wei in my day to day life. I don't frequent these boards much these days and somtimes come on here with the intention of smacking down what I perceive to be fanboy assholes when I'm in a bad mood. But who am I? I've already copped to being a pugilistic prick. Your post just happened to fall within my crosshairs. No I don't think the "Star Wars" concept of "The Force" is a sophisticated appropriation of Taoist philosphy. But who cares? Lucas at least tried to invoke the tenents of Taoism in his depiction of the Jedi whether I personally think he succeeded or not. I just get tired of fanboys waxing poetic about the philosophical underpinnings of "Star Wars" sometimes, and you happened to be the available target of said derision.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    ...a metaphysical philosophy that lets you move shit...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...with your mind.<P>If such a thing existed I would have found it freshman year of college...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:30 p.m. CST

    I'LL

    by master_of_realty

    FUCK ANYTHING THAT MOVES

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:35 p.m. CST

    ...when I was a kid the only thing that bethered me...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...was Han saying "freeze" to those two troopers and them putting their hands up like they were on an episode of T.J. HOOKER.<P>I'm not sure why, but at the age of eleven it struck me as the height of un-realisticosity that people would say "freeze" and raise their hands a long, long time ago in a galaxy far away.<P>I even loved the Ewoks.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:38 p.m. CST

    Ain't it old news

    by FamousEccles

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:38 p.m. CST

    P.s. it Was Revenge of the nerds...

    by VENOM69

    ...that came out the same time as Jedi. Star Trek 2 was a calendar year before Jedi. Lucas wanted to avoid confusion (or connection to a film poking fun of his main audience?) Shouldnt it have been called Return of A Jedi? And Luke really wasnt a jedi anyway...hmmm

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST

    I can honestly say that as a kid

    by SithMenace

    nothing bothered me about ROTJ. As an adult I see the flaws but I can also see that it's an engaging, compelling, exciting film. <p>The whole goggle of nostalgia thing is bullshit, because there are terrible movies that I loved as a child and hated when I rewatched as an adult, because they're just not good. ROTJ is not one of those movies.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:42 p.m. CST

    Seriously. Why was this posted?

    by StarWarsRedux

    I have a hard time believing that anybody with a working knowledge of George Lucas and David Lynch WOULDN'T know that their paths had crossed over ROTJ. Lucas also contacted David Cronenberg about directing. Are we going to have to wait until he brings it up in a video interview before AICN stops the presses for it?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:43 p.m. CST

    ...I agree. Most movies you loved as a kid suck...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...as an adult. A few hold up...and a few are even better than you realized at the time. <P>One of my favorite things in all of life is re-watching a childhood favorite and finding out that it's even better than I could grasp at the time...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:47 p.m. CST

    StarWarsRedux

    by Skyway Moaters

    You've obviously missed the point of AICN "in general".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:48 p.m. CST

    Revenge of the Fett

    by ufoclub1977

    Read the novelization of Star Wars published in 1977. Also dialogue from the movie: "MOTTI: Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fort..." HAN: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:49 p.m. CST

    The_Original_BlackRabbit - here's a link.

    by ExcaliburFfolkes

    I found this by Googling. The sheet is actually two-sided but here's a link to an image of side one. http://www.westnet.com/~crywalt/dune_vocabulary.obverse.jpg

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Dune's art direction...

    by ufoclub1977

    Dune's retro art direction is similar but in a much more serious vein to "Flash Gorden"... also by Dino Delaurentis's machine.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 4:57 p.m. CST

    Why was this Posted????

    by conspiracy

    Because today is the day they start screening Avatar for reviewers...so I hear. And no doubt the AICN guys are busy being fellated by Jim Camerons professional reviewer fluffing platoon and therefore had no time to post a real story.</p><p>Unless there is an embargo on Avatar reviews...I'd prepare myself for the coming avalanche of uncritical fanboy jizz.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:02 p.m. CST

    I'm already sick of Avatar

    by SithMenace

    and I'm a James Cameron fan, for the most part.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Venom 69

    by yeshallbejudged

    Exactly right dude - I was 9 when it came out - loved the lived in feel of the universe. I even had Fett's ship as a Xmas present (think it was from Empire maybe). As an adult has rewatched Dune plenty of times but no desire for Jedi I have to say. Ridley Scott could do brilliant job on Dune - it can be seen as an analogy for the Middle East obviously, and Ridley has the form for that subject matter.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST

    A "sneak" review in The British Sun said this about Avatar

    by skimn

    "It's a 3D movie people will look back on in years to come to comment on how it transformed cinema.In recent 3D releases such as Beowulf, the effects were impressive but the computer-generated humans looked far from real.In Avatar, everything feels real - and it's as if you are immersed in the action. And what action. The final battle scene is 20 minutes long and absolutely mind-blowing. Avatar, out next Thursday, is truly an event movie."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Thanks Jubal_Early...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    I just wasn't paying attention. Sorry for being 'that guy'.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST

    Simon Pegg has just declared that Avatar has left him

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "tweetless. Just tweetless in the best possible way."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST

    I trust NO early word on Avatar...

    by conspiracy

    I remember how everyone slurped up TPM when it came out...said Lucas had RETURNED, etc...</p><p>I also remember the Overall fluffing Crystal Skull received...how it was wonderful continuation of the Indy series...I remember reading about fuckers crying at the screening for fucks fucking sake...</p><p>No sir...when I talk to people who PAID to see the film...people I trust...then I'll go see it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST

    I just want star wars VII...

    by VENOM69

    ...Before I die. RETURN OF THE EMPIRE!!!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Actually I heard mixed things from Crystal Skull..

    by TheWaqman

    at Cannes when it premiered.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    Mixed reviews tend to be a good sign, in my experience

    by StarWarsRedux

    It's when everybody loves or hates a film that you know things are in bad shape...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    What might it have been like? Guess no longer...

    by David Frames

    Check it out: http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2009/12/10/reviews-from-a-parallel-universe-david-lynch%E2%80%99s-return-of-the-jedi/

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST

    When did TPM and Indy 4 ever get good reviews?

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    They were badly received from the off. The Avatar premiere reactions are from members of the public who paid to get tickets from the premiere.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:38 p.m. CST

    Lucas is a technician. Lynch is an artist. It wouldn't have work

    by TylerDurden3395

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Turd...Damned near every internet site was rimming Lucas...

    by conspiracy

    including THIS one. And Fucks sake...it was Harry himself who bawled at Indy 4.</p><p>And I hardly call Speilberg, Simon Pegg, or any staffer from any movie review site "members of the Public".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:45 p.m. CST

    TheJudger - Out of your fucking mind!

    by spud mcspud

    The crudest possible level a movie works on is the STORY?? The whole fucking POINT of entertainment is THE STORY! The actors, the effects, the music, the props, the locations - they're there to support THE STORY! Without a story, you end up as Platinum Dooms.<P> Now fuck off back to your coffee house where you belong, you pretentious navel-gazing twat. No-one has ever misunderstood the point of a movie to this level of stupidity - which, on the AICN talkbacks, is really something.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:46 p.m. CST

    And yeah, this is replying to a REALLY early post

    by spud mcspud

    Fuck it, I just finished work. I can't believe I just read that. JEEEEEEsus...

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Conspiracy, not after the premier of TPM they weren't

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    At least as far as I can remember. Yeah, I remeber that Harry review where he was gushing over it - 'mesa luv him!' regarding Jar Jar and all that. But that's Harry for you, the same guy that loved Armageddon and Godzilla. Maybe Moriarty was riding it, too. But I remember the common consensus as being pretty negative, or lukewarm at best.<p>As for Avatar, I wasn't referring to The 'Berg or Pegg, but the morass of tweets from the Joe Publics who attended the London premniere, not the celebs and industry people.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by Ryanbraun14

    While I agree 100% with you about how RotJ should have been, that's me talking as a 25 year old. All these obsessed fanboys who fell in love with Star Wars as kids, and then they grew up and expected Star Wars to grow up with them and satisfy their mature tastes. At the end of the day, star wars is a spectacle for wide eyed children to enjoy, and be the kind of movie a parent can a) take their kids to see and b) actually enjoy themselves. Star Wars obsessed fanboys are not Lucas' demographic although they think they are, and have such a false sense of entitlement, and lucas could give a shit what they want. I was surprised at how dark RotS was. That said, I can TOTALLY see a new, mature take on Star Wars as a live action tv show... just PLEASE make it post RotJ story, or WAY back in the timeline. No more bullshit about what we missed in between the movies.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 5:53 p.m. CST

    Turd...give us some linx...let me see the Avatar love

    by conspiracy

    from John Q. London.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Here is a review from the Hollywood Reporter

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "Bottom Line: A titanic entertainment -- movie magic is back! A dozen years later, James Cameron has proven his point: He is king of the world. As commander-in-chief of an army of visual-effects technicians, creature designers, motion-capture mavens, stunt performers, dancers, actors and music and sound magicians, he brings science-fiction movies into the 21st century with the jaw-dropping wonder that is "Avatar." And he did it almost from scratch. There is no underlining novel or myth to generate his story. He certainly draws deeply on Westerns, going back to "The Vanishing American" and, in particular, "Dances With Wolves." And the American tragedy in Vietnam informs much of his story. But then all great stories build on the past. After writing this story many years ago, he discovered that the technology he needed to make it happen did not exist. So, he went out and created it in collaboration with the best effects minds in the business. This is motion capture brought to a new high where every detail of the actors' performances gets preserved in the final CG character as they appear on the screen. Yes, those eyes are no longer dead holes but big and expressive, almost dominating the wide and long alien faces. The movie is 161 minutes and flies by in a rush. Repeat business? You bet. "Titanic"-level business? That level may never be reached again, but Fox will see more than enough grosses worldwide to cover its bet on Cameron. But let's cut to the chase: A fully believable, flesh-and-blood (albeit not human flesh and blood) romance is the beating heart of "Avatar." Cameron has never made a movie just to show off visual pyrotechnics: Every bit of technology in "Avatar" serves the greater purpose of a deeply felt love story. The story takes place in 2154, three decades after a multinational corporation has established a mining colony on Pandora, a planet light years from Earth. A toxic environment and hostile natives -- one corporate apparatchik calls the locals "blue monkeys" -- forces the conglom to engage with Pandora by proxy. Humans dwell in oxygen-drenched cocoons but move out into mines or to confront the planet's hostile creatures in hugely fortified armor and robotics or -- as avatars. The protagonist, Jake Sully (Sam Worthington), is a crippled former Marine who takes his late twin brother's place in the avatar program, a sort of bone thrown to the scientific community by the corporation in hopes that the study of Pandora and its population might create a more peaceful planet. Without any training, Jake suddenly must learn how to link his consciousness to an avatar, a remotely controlled biological body that mixes human DNA with that of the native population, the Na'vi. Since he is incautious and overly curious, he immediately rushes into the fresh air -- to a native -- to throw open Pandora's many boxes. What a glory Cameron has created for Jake to romp in, all in a crisp 3D realism. It's every fairy tale about flying dragons, magic plants and weirdly hypnotic creepy-crawlies and feral dogs rolled up into a rain forest with a highly advanced spiritual design. It seems -- although the scientists led by Sigourney Weaver's top doc have barely scratched the surface -- a flow of energy ripples through the roots of trees and the spores of the plants, which the Na'vi know how to tap into. The center of life is a holy tree where tribal memories and the wisdom of their ancestors is theirs for the asking. This is what the humans want to strip mine. Jake manages to get taken in by one tribe where a powerful, Amazonian named Neytiri (Zoe Saldana) takes him under her wing to teach him how to live in the forest, speak the language and honor the traditions of nature. Yes, they fall in love but Cameron has never been a sentimentalist: He makes it tough on his love birds. They must overcome obstacles and learn each other's heart. The Na'vi have a saying, "I see you," which goes beyond the visual. It means I see into you and know your heart. In his months with the Na'vi, Jake experiences their life as the "true world" and that inside his crippled body locked in a coffin-like transponding device, where he can control his avatar, is as the "dream." The switch to the other side is gradual for his body remains with the human colony while his consciousness is sometimes elsewhere. He provides solid intelligence about the Na'vi defensive capabilities to Col. Miles Quaritch (Stephen Lang), the ramrod head of security for the mining consortium and the movie's villain. But as Jake comes to see things through Neytiri's eyes, he hopes to establish enough trust between the humans and the natives to negotiate a peace. But the corporation wants the land the Na'vi occupy for its valuable raw material so the Colonel sees no purpose in this. The battle for Pandora occupies much of the final third of the film. The planet's animal life -- the creatures of the ground and air -- give battle along with the Na'vi, but they come up against projectiles, bombs and armor that seemingly will be their ruin. As with everything in "Avatar," Cameron has coolly thought things through. With every visual tool he can muster, he takes viewers through the battle like a master tactician, demonstrating how every turn in the fight, every valiant death or cowardly act, changes its course. The screen is alive with more action and the soundtrack pops with more robust music than any dozen sci-fi shoot-'em-ups you care to mention. In years of development and four years of production no detail in the pic is unimportant. Cameron's collaborators excel beginning with the actors. Whether in human shape or as natives, they all bring terrific vitality to their roles. Mauro Fiore's cinematography is dazzling as it melts all the visual elements into a science-fiction whole. You believe in Pandora. Rick Carter and Robert Stromberg's design brings Cameron's screenplay to life with disarming ease. James Horner's score never intrudes but subtlety eggs the action on while the editing attributed to Cameron, Stephen Rivkin and John Refoua maintains a breathless pace that exhilarates rather than fatigues. Not a minute is wasted; there is no down time. The only question is: How will Cameron ever top this?"<p>Feel free to write this off as industry spin if you must, but this is the first full length review I have seen.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:01 p.m. CST

    Why Ewoks suck, regardless of the theme they help support

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Oh I don't know ... maybe because they look like motherfucking TEDDY BEARS???? Not to mention they act "cute" on top of that. Defending Ewoks or Jar Jar Binks based on what they "represent" or what role they play in the story or what theme they support is missing the point.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST

    Ryanbraun14 nails it EXACTLY

    by VENOM69

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST

    Ewoks Rule

    by FailureAtTheCave

    Shut up.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:07 p.m. CST

    The prequel would have been better with Qui Gon alive...

    by TheWaqman

    replacing Mace Windu's character completely. It would have also made it more believably hard for Anakin to choose between Qui Gon and Palpatine. Instead we got Sam Jackson getting killed and everybody in the theatre laughing, including me.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:09 p.m. CST

    Solo got his nads chopped in Jedi.

    by Onin Solstice

    The biggest mistake in Jedi is that Solo became a pussy-whipped, shell of the man he was in Wars and Empire. Second only to the death of Fett at the hands of a queefing giant vag.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:10 p.m. CST

    ROTJ budget cut because of Lucas's divorce

    by Nem_Wan

    After the first one, all of Lucas's films are self-financed, his own money. TESB cost waaaay more than Lucas wanted to spend and he reined it in on ROTJ, as he was looking at a looming alimony situation. Wookiees became Ewoks and that "entire legion of my best troops" is a smaller number of stormtroopers than fans with their own costumes could assemble these days. As happened with the prequel budgets, after two films shot at vast overseas locations the third one is more on stages and locations close to home in California. Han getting the shield down should be the climax of a major ground campaign but because everything on Endor seems kind of small-scale and we only see the "back door" of this supposedly huge Imperial base, Han's battle seems perfunctory compared to the awesome-looking Ackbar/Lando stuff which is still the ultimate non-CGI space battle but suffers by feeling like a remake of the first movie's ending.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:11 p.m. CST

    Dune fanedit

    by HopOnPop

    there's a pretty impressive fanedit out there that fixes most of the problems of the Alan Smithee version and really give the thing it's proper epic feel. of course, there's only so much you can do with the utter incompetence of the Smithee's editing (seriously, between this and Brazil, what kind of flunkees did Universal have on staff in the 80s?), but this thing is a salvage job of the highest order. http://fanedit.org/957/

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST

    Empire magazine online

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    has just given Avatar 5 stars out of 5.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:20 p.m. CST

    Thanks for the review Turd...

    by conspiracy

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Endor battle should have been shot at Arecibo Observatory

    by Nem_Wan

    This would have been before Goldeneye did it, so the Arecibo Observatory should have been the Imperial shield generator and they could have had a big shootout with Rebels and Wookiees fighting Stormtroopers all over the place and Han could have been in the kind of fight scene Bond had in Goldeneye. But that would have meant the production camping out in Puerto Rico for week$.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:24 p.m. CST

    Luke removing Vader's helmet, and then...

    by ricarleite2

    ... the last 10 minutes of Eraserhead, but with old Anakin as the baby.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Lucas' Nuts cut because of divorce...

    by conspiracy

    that divorce ruined him as a film maker, and a man. Now he is a hermit in Marin, with a 12yr old sense of humor surrounded by spoiled kids and yes men.</p><p>That divorce made Ewoks, labotomized Marcus Brody, the word Yippee cringe worthy, Jar-Jar, Slap stick robots, attack monkeys, and snakes as a rope.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Is this going to be a sequel or...

    by Gus Van Rant

    a squeaqual? Fuck the Chipmunks..Fuck, fuck the Chipmunks!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    GODAMIT! I hate the "Star Wars was for kids" argument...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Lightsaber amputation/decapitation is NOT for kids.<p>Assholes.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:38 p.m. CST

    That Empire review is Hilarious..

    by conspiracy

    "Prosaic" sappy story, JC is a big old hypocritical private jet owning tree hugger, the song sucks....but we'll give it 5 stars because the visuals fucked our eyes.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST

    MAKE A 3RD EWOK MOVIE!

    by Stereotypical Evil Archer

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:48 p.m. CST

    Empire's retarded...they gave Watchmen a 4

    by TheWaqman

    I read their Avatar review and it was pretty crap. They basically said it's a 4-star movie in 2D. 5 star in 3D. And then pointed out flaws, which didn't reflect the score at all. I don't take them seriously anyways. Watchmen and District 9 were both deserving of 3s at the highest. Avatar will rock. Conspiracy...keep hating. Positive buzz is trickling out. I hope you don't stay a contrarian even when you enjoy it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:51 p.m. CST

    GODAMIT! I hate the 'star wars is for fanboys' argument

    by Ryanbraun14

    caring enough to call people with the opinion 'star wars is for kids' assholes is NOT for someone 18 and older... and thats me being generous.<br><br>Loser.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    That's not what the Empire review said at all

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    VERY selective paraphrasing of certain sections of it by you there, Conspiracy. They talked about how effctive it was a character piece, how brilliant the action climax was, called Cameron a 'master at work', how it actually poses intelligent questions, etc., amongst other things. Hardly all visuals and no substance. I won't post the review here since it contains a few spoilers for those not in the know.<p>Another review from The Times (of London) gives it 4/5.<p>The consensus seems to be very positive indeed. The haters will find any way they can to spin it, but there's no doubt that it is seemingly a great piece of work and is being well received. <p>And yes, it is unequivocally confirmed to be an EYEBALL FUCKER!!

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:55 p.m. CST

    TimesonlineUk reviews it, 4stars

    by TheWaqman

    http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/film_ reviews/article6952668.ece <p> Another positive review. But this one doesn't say much either. Event films tend to get reviews like this where you just look at the score and you know what you're expecting. I know I'm getting a good action film here from all the positive scores. Too bad they are not really in depth. But last I recalled LOTR got similar reviews, no depth in them but I knew I'd love it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:56 p.m. CST

    The haters are just sad that their last pillar has crumbled...

    by TheWaqman

    they were hoping reception would be horrible.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Media are not be trusted

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    however, you can still get a pretty good gauge from reviews.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Turd..I lifed that "Prosaic" line almost verbatum

    by conspiracy

    Stale, sappy story...eye fucking visuals...4 stars in 2D, 5 stars in 3D. I'll see it...but simmer down the fucking hype...it is not the Godfather 2 of Sci-fi.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:03 p.m. CST

    No it's not BUT it does slowly confirm that..

    by TheWaqman

    Cameron has not gone the way of Lucas by coming back from a huge hiatus with something awfully out of touch.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:03 p.m. CST

    Ryan, you and George are the assholes...

    by Billyeveryteen

    With the stupid "It's for kids, always has been" retcon bullshit.<p>Since you assume I'm a teen, I'm gonna assume you're 14. Go to bed.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Here ya go..devoid os all the Hype of the graphics..

    by conspiracy

    "At times – and this is perhaps Avatar’s biggest flaw, even beyond that bloody awful Leona Lewis song which mars the end credits – this manifests itself in New Age-y, hippy-dippy language and images that suggest that Cameron is one mung bean away from dropping out, man, and going all Swampy on our asses. In truth, the big idea here, that Pandora is a giant mass of connected energy and emotional synapses, isn’t really all that far away from Lucas’ The Force, and works just fine in the context of a sci-fi fantasy, which Avatar undoubtedly is, but there’s a fair amount of unintentional laughter to be had from watching hundreds of Na’vi, swaying like extras from the Zion rave scene in The Matrix Reloaded, surrounding something called The Tree Of Souls and banging on about becoming one with Mother Eywo. If there’s one element of Avatar that the made-their-mind-up brigade will use to mercilessly beat the film with, even more so than the somewhat prosaic plot, it’s this".

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Ryanbraun14: I Watch The Original Star Wars Film...

    by Media Messiah

    ...and Empire and I can enjoy them as a mature adult, since they were written smartly and maturely, but Lucas went completely off the Ranch with Return of The Jedi and made a silly childrens' movie, one that is even bad in the eyes of children, and bad in terms of childrens' films.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    Oh you're in the "made-their-mind-up" brigade?

    by TheWaqman

    I would have never known. Have fun constantly bringing up that scene once the film comes out. I knew there would be hippy-dippy ritual shit in here the moment this film was green-lit. It's not enough to take away from my enjoyment though judging by the responses of the great action scenes and competent story.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    It still sounds fine to me, Conspiracy

    by DVader

    Let's just all go into this thing with an open mind. Why go to a movie if you expect to hate it? (not suggesting that's you, Professional Brother Conspiracy, just saying in general)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    I'll give you JC is no Lucas...

    by conspiracy

    as Lucas lost his fucking mind. </p><p>But people need to calm the fuck down about this film...it is a derivative story with eye fucking visuals. Maybe that is fine if all you care about is video game battles...but I'm an adult...and I want a story that lives up to the hype...not just juicy graphics. Like I said..I'll see it...but I'm not expecting much more than the eye candy hinted at in these reviews.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:10 p.m. CST

    No, conspiracy, it's not

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    That'd be T2, with T1 being the first Godfather. Avatar is merely the Lawrence of Arabia of sci-fi. Anyway, what hype? - after months of idiots posting about how this movie was going to blow chunks, endless thundersmurfs cracks, how JC was a hack, etc., it's satisfying that the movie has seemingly knocked that nonsense for six.<p>Quotes from Empire. "Avatar isn’t just about spectacle and stupendous action (though we’ll get both in spades), but a love story. We need hardly be surprised by this – every Cameron film, even True Lies, has a love story at its core – but the surprise here is how effective Avatar’s central coupling is, the emotion between Jake and Neytiri earthed by Weta’s astonishing digital effects."<p>"But, as much as technology aids and defines Avatar, it’s also a love letter to humanity and the glory of mother nature. The analogy with the Vietnam and Iraq wars is obvious, but Cameron, in siding with the insurgents (hardly an all-American move, but then again he is Canadian), is also asking fairly complex questions about what it means to be human."<p>"Avatar is a hugely rewarding experience: rich, soulful and exciting in the way that only comes from seeing a master artist at work."<p>Doesn't sound like a 'sappy, stale' story to me; and many other reviews have poibnted out how involving, emotional and flawlessly executed it is in these departments, despite its familiarity.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:11 p.m. CST

    District 9 was pretty prosaic as well...

    by TheWaqman

    and preachy as hell. Too bad critics ate that shit up. Love to hate Cameron. Love to hate him.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:12 p.m. CST

    DVader..I Will see it with an open mind, for Bales sake.

    by conspiracy

    ,and in the name of professionalism. But call me un-hyped.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:13 p.m. CST

    Nah, Terminator is more important to action films.

    by TheWaqman

    than it is to sci-fi. Terminator 2 as well. I think Aliens was the Godfather 2 of sci-fi. Only this time they completely changed genres for the sequel. I'm just glad Cameron came back with a good film. I've been getting sick of watching Greengrass and Bay movies and leaving with a bad head-ache.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST

    conspiracy... on trusting no early word...

    by ScaryWaitress

    You speak the fucking TRUTH, brother. <P>Sing it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Oh..and Turd....

    by conspiracy

    I've already seen Dances with Wolves referenced in one review...positive or not. So haters or not...they were right on the money story wise.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Damn Hollywood Reporter link won't work

    by DVader

    Its like the entire site has crashed or something. Amateurs.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:15 p.m. CST

    Not to mention this

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "But it’s hard to imagine even the most jaded and cynical having any issues with the last forty minutes, in which Cameron uncorks the action and shows all the young pretenders – the Bays and the Emmerichs and the Von Triers – how it’s done. The human attack on Pandora and the subsequent fightback, led by Avatar-Jake, is a largely sustained setpiece of quite staggering scale, imagination and emotion that manages to compress both the truly epic – a human attack on a Na’vi landmark that recalls 9/11 in its devastating imagery – and the thrillingly intimate, as Jake finally faces off against the excellent Stephen Lang’s Quaritch,"<p>So, stunning visuals, an immersive experience (which is very much about storytelling, ot just empty fx), typically Cameron 10/10 action, and an involving, emotional and well-told story, that features characters you actually care about and great performances - compares Worthington to Lee Marvin and says he's impressive - and raises pertinent and topical questions about mankind's political, social, and cultural history. Sound like a winner, baby. What more do you want?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:15 p.m. CST

    What story has lived up to the hype?

    by TheWaqman

    Please. Name it. And don't give me some fucking Michael Haneke or something. I'm talking action films with budgets.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Un-hyped is a good way to go.

    by DVader

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:16 p.m. CST

    TheWaqman... totally disagree

    by ScaryWaitress

    ...with you there. Aliens is a masterwork, of both action AND sci-fi. That movie is flawlessly executed, and STILL looks better than ANYTHING that has come out in over a decade, in both genres.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:17 p.m. CST

    Know how I know I'm going to die alone?

    by Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad

    I just read this entire fucking talkback.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST

    venom69, it was the return of the Jedi philosophy

    by REVENGE_of_FETT

    Lucas has gone through great pains to emphasize the opposing philosophies of the two force groups. The OT was about how the quick and easy path may get you what you THINK you want, but it ultimately destroys you. Only the light side of the force is truly fulfilling. Luke was a Jedi, not because he had mastered his lightsaber or learned how to flip or whatever, he was dubbed a Jedi by Yoda because he had learned to master his fear and let go of hatred. THAT is what returned, THAT is what saved the galaxy. One could also argue that it was ANAKIN that returned.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST

    Mel... you just hain'ta found the right girl yet...

    by ScaryWaitress

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:21 p.m. CST

    Regarding Dances with Wolves

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    I could have told you that back in the mid-90's when I first read the scriptment. Of course they were right about some parallels therein - but that is an ancient stoy and one that was told long before Dances. Avatar draws on dozen of tales that you could mention - Last of the Mohicans, John Carter of Mars, even Dune. Some presumed 'originality' is irrelevant. You could have made up your mind about that long befor ethe movie was shown. What matters - and what seems to have been achieved - is that it is a classicist story extremely well told, dramatic, emotional, gripping, timely, and sincere.<p>As posted above in that otehr review There is no underlining novel or myth to generate his story. He certainly draws deeply on Westerns, going back to "The Vanishing American" and, in particular, "Dances With Wolves." And the American tragedy in Vietnam informs much of his story. But then all great stories build on the past."

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:22 p.m. CST

    ...Mel_Gibsons_Nazi_Dad, then you know that I'm a...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...genius!<P>Now, how do we convince everyone else?....

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:22 p.m. CST

    I agree with you on Aliens being great for both genres...

    by TheWaqman

    but Terminator 1 and 2 were action first and foremost. And 2 basically set the template for action films you see all the time now. It had everything in it (including the sappy but likeable Terminator robodaddy relationship). Avatar looks like what Star Wars Episode 2 should have been. I'm excited for good reason.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST

    ...fact: ALIENS is the greatest action flick of all time...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...fact: I'm not very excited to see AVATAR.<P>I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST

    TheWaqman...are you suggesting that Action Films...

    by conspiracy

    and big budget films be held to a lower standard? Are you saying that because it is aimed at the masses it should pander to the lowest common denominator?</p><p>There have been very good "hyped" films...JC himself has made a few such as T2 and Aliens. But when one hears "Game changing" "Epic" coming from the film maker himself...I expect more than fancy visuals. It does not need to be Shakespeare...but it for fucks sake should be original and well written...CGI felines be damned.</p><p>I'll know the 20th when I go see this thing...I'm no hater...I even told Bob Orci Star Trek was "entertaining", if poorly written; so if it is good I'll say so...if it sucks then it sucks.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:26 p.m. CST

    Someone find me a quote where JC said "gamechanging"

    by DVader

    Bc I feel like that was something someone else said and its been misconstrued as coming from the filmmaker himself.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:30 p.m. CST

    No I'm not suggesting anything of the sort...

    by TheWaqman

    I'm just saying asking for originality is just plain stupid these days. Some people call District 9 "original" when it is extremely cliched and preachy. Sure ask for a good story. I personally think this story is good. It's a classic tale that was done long before Dances with Wolves and blends a lot of stuff together. Sure it's unoriginal, but that's such a fucking broad term it could be thrown to almost everything now-a-days. <p> What story would you want this to have? It involves Humans and Aliens. Either they're gonna be fighting each other or fighting some-body else. Their motivation? The few motivations you could pick from would be unoriginal. He just went with an option. Good chat. Enjoyable, and no insults.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:32 p.m. CST

    "Movies will never be the same"...

    by TheWaqman

    is what Fox tag-lines the tv spots with. It's the studio's doing. And way too bold a statement to make for advertising. But when you look at it, the man has made a perfectly good 3D system that will be used from here-on-out. I think it's not too far from the truth when they say it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:33 p.m. CST

    "Avatar is the Lawrence of Arabia of sci-fi"

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    And yet you haven't even seen it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:35 p.m. CST

    conspiracy

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    "It does not need to be Shakespeare...but it for fucks sake should be original and well written"<p>There is nothing ina ny review thus far too indicate that Avatar is not well written and solid storytelling. A movie cannot get by on eye candy alone (even as stunning as Avatar. Did 2012 get excellent reviews, despite having decent visuals (though hardly in the same ball park as Avatar)? No, because Avatar is on a different level of - which is why even broadsheets like The Times and The Guardian are giving it good reviews and saying the story is a good one. Ditto the rumored Golden Globe nom. It's genre entertainment, sure; but it sounds like GREAT genre entertainment - just like T1 and 2, and Aliens.<p>As for 'originality' , name me anything you think is supposedly, 'original' and I guarantee someone has done it earlier. it's simply not important, and has very little to do with engaging storytelling. JC set out to make a univeral story here, quite deliberately, and it seems he succeeded.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:36 p.m. CST

    DUNE was HORRIBLE, people!! Wake up!!!

    by Drath

    That movie fucking sucks! And you wish Lynch who openly hates Star Wars to have made Return of the Jedi? Nonsense! Just because you like Lynch and like Star Wars (or space opera), it doesn't mean they go together! His Dune was a terrible interpretation of the book, and a clumsy movie. It had an intriguing first act, but that's about it. People need to stop worshipping THAT sacred cow. Just because it wasn't commercial like Jedi does NOT make it an underrated masterpiece. By and large, geeks overrate Lynch's space outing far more often.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:39 p.m. CST

    District 9 was not original in the slightest

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    It's a mutation of Alien Nation with David Cronenberg, with a lot of Cameron's Aliens and Robocop thrown in thrown in there. Yet the very same people proclaiming it original are the ones ragging on Cameron for being 'derivative'.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:42 p.m. CST

    Thunderbolt Ross

    by Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave

    And yet you lack the ability to decipher a comment as being tongue-in-cheek.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:51 p.m. CST

    Ah plenty of egg on face time for the haters

    by kwisatzhaderach

    Cameron delivers again. Lovely.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 7:57 p.m. CST

    odo19 I agree

    by 'Cholera's Ghost

    The first Dune novel is my favorite piece of fiction period. I hope the new film attempt will do it at least some justice.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:11 p.m. CST

    Avatar review Talback is going to be a riot..

    by TheWaqman

    bring out the tear gas.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST

    AICN posting links for Avatar review/comments yet

    by Miyamoto_Musashi

    See that there are some comments from two UK papers online now. <p> Going to put these up, link to them ?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:36 p.m. CST

    What I find most interesting at this point...

    by Jaka

    ...is that anybody would expect the talkbacks to CHANGE! They won't. The supporters, for the most part, will continue supporting. The haters, for the most part, will continue hating, and probably even more so. There may be a few people who move from one side to the other. But I don't really expect any MAJOR change. I am looking forward to finally being able to discuss what I've SEEN versus what everybody THINKS, though.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:36 p.m. CST

    Regarding Avatar, that is. ^^^^

    by Jaka

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST

    DVader

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    You are correct sir. Big Jim never called it a game-changer, Jon Favreau did.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST

    That's what I thought, Ump

    by Jaka

    But I couldn't remember who it was for sure.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:49 p.m. CST

    Tongue in cheek doesn't work when you constantly spew hyperbole

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    How the fuck would ANYONE "get it" if you say comparable things with complete sincerity elsewhere?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:58 p.m. CST

    The

    by Anti-fanboy

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 8:59 p.m. CST

    LOL...

    by Anti-fanboy

    yeah, THE. I said it. ..fuckin enter button.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:02 p.m. CST

    Avatar may deliver

    by lochkray

    But that song posted the other day still sucks. Oh, and back on topic: ROTJ rules. I keep meaning to read the book for Dune so that I can watch the movie and figure out what the hell is going on. When that talking head-lady at the beginning tries to explain what's happening in the universe, she gets about two sentences in and it turns to Charlie Brown's teacher talking, and no matter how hard I concentrate, I can't figure out what the hell she's going on about, and I'm lost for the rest of the flick. Interesting visual style. Bad, bad, bad movie (as a stand alone. People who loved the books seemed to love the movie). Anyway, that's my two cents.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Funny...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    how everybody's always jizzin over IRON MAN, but won't trust Favreau when it comes to his opinion about Cameron's AVATAR-tech. Instead they apply that statement onto Jim, so's they can take a giant, misinformed fanboi shit on his entire career and his newest film. Goddamn, some of you kids are just fucking lazy and enormously pathetic.</p> <p>Btw, I like JEDI, I just think the cinematography and the overall tone of the piece would've been greatly enhanced had Lynch directed.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST

    lochkray, the spice must flow

    by Jaka

    http://tinyurl.com/yj4gfte Or so says this song. The book(s) are infinitely better than the movie.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:27 p.m. CST

    DACNES WITH SMURFS GOT CHEERED IN LONDON

    by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN

    apparently they liked it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:28 p.m. CST

    ROTJ would not have looked my differet

    by Engelhast

    if Lynch had directed it. Lucas would have still lorded over every aspect of the art design and script. It might have had some more quirky performances but that would be about it.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:30 p.m. CST

    oh guess i was late...

    by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Avatar haters...

    by Anti-fanboy

    ...seriously, what were you thinking? It's James KING OF THE FUCKING WORLD Cameron, guys. I mean, common. Geez. Dipshits.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Well then...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    Why ask Lynch to direct, if you didn't want any of his very particular sensibilities? Did Lucas just want some street-cred or something by asking an art-house director to lend his name to the production?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:40 p.m. CST

    25 year old news...great

    by Rupee88

    and someone almost directing something is not even news either

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Cameron is king of the world?

    by Thunderbolt Ross

    Oh that's right - he said so. I guess I shouldn't criticize the trailer for his new movie then.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:46 p.m. CST

    The only things known about Lynch...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    at the time, were his stunning cinematography and his phenomenal sound design. So again, why ask him to direct ROTJ at all, if Lucas only wanted someone to do his bidding?</p> <p>Methinks you've taken your opinion of the man for a flat fact. I guess that's the nature of the talkback beast isn't it?

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    TheUmpireStrokesBach

    by Engelhast

    Are you kidding? Lucas is a total control freak. It is well known. It is why he took himself out of the Hollywood game and is not even in the director’s guild. He wants to call all the shots when it comes to his movies and he put himself into the position to do so after the first Star Wars movie. More power to him and kudos at the achievement but you are crazy if you think he was not watching over Kershner and Marquand's shoulders every step of the way.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Engelhast...

    by Anti-fanboy

    Yeah, pretty much. The Emperor would probably have been creepy as shit. I think Lynch would have probably offed himself during filming of the Endor stuff, though. "George, they're fucking teddy bears. Yes, I understand the Vietnam thing, I know what you're trying to say here, but they're fucking teddy bears, George. I'm sorry. Why the fuck didn't I go with Dune? Yes, I'm asking you, George, because Dune didn't have midgets in teddy bear jumpsuits defeating a galactic empire. Do you know why? Because that's dumb, George. I'm, OK, well, look, I'm going to film this shit backwards, how would that be? All the teddy bears will move in reverse, and talk in reverse, and, let's see, C3PO will sing an old Roy Orbison song while this is happening, just for shits and giggles, how about that? OK?" It wouldn't have went well.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:13 p.m. CST

    And, YES, Cameron is KOTFW

    by Anti-fanboy

    Because he says so. Because he's KOTFW. See how that works? Get with the program.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:17 p.m. CST

    Jedi Looked Like A Puppet Show

    by Buzz Maverik

    It was terribly set bound. The puppets actually looked like puppets.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Return of the Muppet Show

    by Engelhast

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Damn hit enter instead of tab

    by Engelhast

    Return of the Muppet show. I blame Marquand for that. You either know how to shoot practical effects costumes or you don't. It is George's fault also though. When the dailies came in on ROTJ he should have fired Marquand and the DP and got off his ass and finished the movie himself. Christ who did Marquand fuck to even get that gig to begin with? He had not done shit to speak of before getting the job nor has he done shit since then. Fuck that guy for fucking up the original trilogy.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 10:54 p.m. CST

    Well, Marquand did die in '87...

    by Anti-fanboy

    So, yeah. But I've always blamed him, rightly or wrongly, for how lackluster Jedi was.

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:33 p.m. CST

    ExcaliburFfolkes

    by Iblis_mage

    Yeah, I still have the Dune glossary sheet from the theater too. (Also, nice username...finally got round to seeing that a couple months ago.)

  • Dec. 10, 2009, 11:36 p.m. CST

    If ever there waas a film that needed the Lotr treatment

    by ChocolateJesusMan

    its dune...hand it over to neil blomkamp & let him run with it

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 12:10 a.m. CST

    I hate clogged TB's full of assholes....

    by MacReady452

    I never see post here other than on total fanboy shit. Like a boner in sweatpants.....I'm out.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST

    Lynch's Dune is underrated and highly quotable

    by ScienceMan

    "Ucil has called a big one!" and "We have wormsign the likes of which God has never seen!" are particular favorites of mine, especially when I've got a massive bowel movement I'd like to show off to my friends. The guy who played Stilgar proves that there are no small roles, only small actors. The Toto score. That trippy shot of Alia Atreides in her knife-wielding tweener pose of orgasmic ecstatic release in the aftermath of the fortress battle, the Baron's maltreatment of that slaveboy who looks suspiciously like Dave Foley of The Kids in the Hall... Sting, Sting for the love of Pete. Grinding his molars down to the nub with his scenery-chewing shout of "I will kill him!" in his mailed space diapers (why someone hasn't done a Youtube cut of that scene to the tune of the Police's "I can't stand losing" I'll never know). What's not to love? It was a 1980s fever dream. My entire circle of geek friends born in the seventies, raised in the eighties, agree. However I do seem to be largely alone in my opinion that the book(s) are, while not without merit, largely overrated.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 12:53 a.m. CST

    ScienceMan...

    by Anti-fanboy

    You nailed the best parts, but don't forget those square forcefields, that only the slow blade could pierce. How great was that?

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 1:13 a.m. CST

    ScienceMan

    by Engelhast

    pretty much hit the nail on the head. The dune books are both WAY overrated and yet somehow very underrated at the same time.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 1:42 a.m. CST

    Uh...I guess this is cool, but it's not news.

    by Mono

    Are there really film buffs who didn't already know this? Weird.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 1:42 a.m. CST

    amazing

    by solotwit

    neat-o!

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 1:43 a.m. CST

    Use the wierding way Luke!

    by Chuck_Chuckwalla

    That's a neat little connection that I didn't know about. Ironic, since Lucas' idea for Star Wars was partly inspired by Dune, hence the reference to the spice mines of Kessel. Maud'Dib!

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 1:46 a.m. CST

    Variety...Loves Avatar!!!

    by Media Messiah

    New U.S. Release Avatar<BR><BR> By TODD MCCARTHY<BR><BR> 'Avatar' <BR><BR> A 20th Century Fox release presented in association with Dune Entertainment and Ingenious Film Partners. Produced by James Cameron, Jon Landau. Executive producers, Colin Wilson, Laeta Kalogrios. Co-producders, Brooke Breton, Josh McLaglen. Directed, written by James Cameron. <BR><BR> Jake Sully - Sam Worthington Neytiri - Zoe Saldana Grace - Sigourney Weaver Col. Miles Quaritch - Stephen Lang Trudy Chacon - Michelle Rodriguez Parker Selfridge - Giovanni Ribisi Norm Spellman - Joel David Moore Moat - CCH Pounder Eytukan - Wes Studi Tsu'tey - Laz Alonso Dr. Max Patel - Dileep Rao Corporal Lyle Wainfleet - Matt Gerald<BR><BR> The King of the World sets his sights on creating another world entirely in "Avatar," and it's very much a place worth visiting. The most expensive and technically ambitious film ever made, James Cameron's long-gestating epic pitting Earthly despoilers against a forest-dwelling alien race delivers unique spectacle, breathtaking sights, narrative excitement and an overarching anti-imperialist, back-to-nature theme that will play very well around the world, and yet is rather ironic coming from such a technology-driven picture. Twelve years after "Titanic," which still stands as the all-time B.O. champ, Cameron delivers again with a film of universal appeal that just about everyone who ever goes to the movies will need to see. Cameron reportedly wrote the story, if not the full script, for "Avatar" at least 15 years ago but decided he had to wait until visual effects capabilities advanced sufficiently to credibly render his imagined world and its inhabitants. On this fundamental level, the picture is a triumph; it's all of a piece, in no way looking like a vague mish-mash of live-action, CGI backdrops, animation, performance capture and post-production effects. On top of that, the 3D is agreeably unemphatic, drawing the viewer into the action without calling attention to itself. The third dimension functions as an enhancement, not a raison d'etre, so the film will look perfectly fine without it. (When it opens domestically on Dec. 15, approximately 2100 screens will feature 3D, with another 1200 in 2D.) <BR><BR> Then there's the appearance of the indigenous Na'vi clan. In the wake of the still photographs, trailers and 15-minute appetizer offered up by Fox in recent months, a certain wait-and-see reaction could be felt that raised mild doubts about how physically appealing the protagonists would be. But once they're introduced in the context of the picture, these blue-skinned, yellow-eyed creatures quickly become captivating, even sexy, with their rangy height, slim and elongated bodies and skimpy wardrobe, and the grace and dexterity with which they move. <BR><BR> A few more lines of exposition might have helped explain why, in the year 2154 (according to the press notes), Earthlings, represented exclusively, for some reason, by the United States armed forces, need to travel light years away to Pandora to mine a precious mineral that will help rescue the planet from ecological disaster. (Does the U.S. now rule the world? Or is this nation, exclusively, concerned about the environment? Is it the only country left? Or is it simply the best villain for global consumption?) <BR><BR> After the death of his identical-twin scientist brother, wheelchair-bound former Marine Jake Sully (Sam Worthington) takes his place to become an Avatar, a hybrid being that combines human DNA with that of the Na'vi; achieving the Avatar status occurs under lab conditions, with the subject experiencing his or her alternate state as if in a dream. The official hope is that negotiations can help persuade the natives to move aside and allow further exploitation of their land, although hawkish mission commander Col. Miles Quaritch (Stephen Lang) enlists the gung ho Jake's help as his personal military spy. <BR><BR> Early glimpses of the intergalactic spaceship, weightless crew members and Avatars floating in liquid-filled cylinders are mere teasers for the wonders awaiting on Pandora itself. Unlike most sci-fi and action films, which seem compelled by formula to kick off with a slam-bang opening and then punctuate things with more mayhem every 20 minutes or so, "Avatar" more gently escorts the viewer into its new world while utilizing a classical three-act structure. <BR><BR> Unavoidable Vietnam vibes emanate from the scenes of futuristic choppers descending upon the verdant jungles and mountainsides of Pandora, a land filled with exotic insects, giant airborne reptiles and birds, dinosaur-like beasts and fearsome, dog-like attack animals. Separated from his scientific companion and fellow Avatar Grace (Sigourney Weaver) and stranded at night, Jake is rescued from becoming a midnight snack by Na'vi warrior Neytiri (Zoe Saldana), who subsequently shows the interloper around and very gradually warms to him as he demonstrates an aptitude for native ways. <BR><BR> Cameron's extensive experience on deep-water ocean dives, which resulted in a couple of Imax 3D documentaries, no doubt influenced the glowing, luminous nature of some of the plant life and floating seeds that waft through the environment's atmosphere, while the grander landscapes offer staggering vistas of places that are perhaps most reminiscent of South America, just as the Na'vi most strongly call to mind the natives of the Americas in their customs and tribal manners. For their language, which is extensively spoken with subtitled translation, Cameron had a professor, Paul Frommer, invent a tongue of more than 1,000 words from scratch, although Neytiri, among others, has previously learned pretty good English from Grace. <BR><BR> Although the young Na'vi males resent him, Jake learns quickly and earns his stripes by successfully piloting a giant flying banshee. After three months, however, just as the colonel is ready to send his young charge back home, Jake crosses over and, inspired by his intimacy with Neytiri, goes native. It's "A Man Called Horse" all over again, with Jake, believing he can help the clan repel the invaders, taking up the role of a resistance leader against overwhelming odds. <BR><BR> Final stretch is devoted to the ferocious battle between the Earthly maurauders, with their huge airborne battleships and mighty arsenal, and the nearly naked home team, armed mostly with bows and arrows. Despite the latter fighting on friendly terrain, the mismatch is just too great, and the way things pan out strikes the one somewhat discordant dramatic note in the picture, resulting in a bit of final-reel deflation; surely, a more complex but believable climax and aftermath could have been found. <BR><BR> Thematically, the film also plays too simplistically into stereotypical evil-white-empire/virtuous-native cliches, especially since the invaders are presumably on an environmental rescue mission on behalf of the entire world, not just the U.S. Script is rooted very much in a contemporary eco-green mindset, which makes its positions and the sympathies it encourages entirely predictable and unchallenging. <BR><BR> On an experiential level, however, "Avatar" is all-enveloping and transporting, with Cameron & Co.'s years of R&D paying off with a film that, as his work has done before, raises the technical bar and throws down a challenge for the many other filmmakers toiling in the sci-fi/fantasy realm. The lead team from Weta in New Zealand as well as the numerous other visual-effects and animation firms involved have done marvelous and exacting work, a compliment that extends to every other craft and technical contribution on view. <BR><BR> Playing a grunt in a crewcut before his transformation, Worthington is tough, gruff and assertive as the genetic pioneer turned insurrectionist, while Saldana proves her mettle as yet another kickass Cameron heroine. Lang, already seen to great advantage this year in "Public Enemies," is a relentless militarist par excellence, while Weaver, looking great wearing a Stanford T-shirt, no doubt a personal touch by the alum, is wonderfully authoritative as a scientist so unimpeachable that she can get away with smoking on board an intergalactic spaceship.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 2:09 a.m. CST

    How embarrassing

    by Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Some of these comments are

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 7 a.m. CST

    Weta is the new ILM

    by SithMenace

    and not just because of Avatar.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 7:04 a.m. CST

    Aliens is a masterstroke

    by SithMenace

    and has aged very well, but there's a few fx shots in there that I wish they would go in and re-do. It would be cool to have a Blu-Ray release with the original versions, and a "Special Edition", where Cameron fixes the ship flying into the reactor near the end, adds a few more Aliens, vice versa. No major work, just a few touches here and there. <p>Basically give a 1986 movie some 2009 fx touch ups, anf they could even use practical fx, no cgi.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 9:05 a.m. CST

    SW Will Always Endure..

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    Long after the same people that hyped up The Matrix Trilogy and LOTR are exhuasted, SW fan is still going with why this aspect sucks etc...

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST

    THE WORLD LOVES AVATAR!

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    ....Now fuck off!

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 9:11 a.m. CST

    Dune II: Muad'Dib Shit

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    Coming to a multiplex soon!

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST

    How to make ROTJ even better

    by Rodie

    I do like ROTJ, but here are changed I would have suggested had I been Lucas' co-writer: 1. Open the film with a shot of Luke from behind, seated and meditating on Obi-Wan's rooftop and silhouetted as the twin suns rise. 2. Give Han more to do at the Sarlac Pit. Have him fight Boba Fett and throw him intentionally into the pit even though he's half-blind. Payback is a b****. 3. Change Endor's races. Make Ewoks a subspecies and only feature 3-4 in the film (used as guides to show our heroes where certain things are, more on that later). Make the dominant species on the planet a more relatable humanoid race called Endorans with simple tinted skin, all black eyes and shaved heads (a la THX). 4. Change Empire's activity on Endor. Show the destructive and parasitic nature of the Empire. Show them cutting down trees, strip-mining the planet for resources and enslaving Endorans. Show a train-like system loaded with men, women and children being hauled off to concentration camps. Have the Endorans tagged on their ears and tattooed by the Empire. Heavy Nazi overtones here. 5. Change the tone on Endor. This section of the film needs to be more intense with higher stakes! While Luke and Leia create a distraction by stopping a train and freeing hundreds of Endorans from certain death at the concentration camp, Han, Chewie and a handful of rebels infiltrate the shield generator and blow it up. Only Han's dialogue is more cooler than in ROTJ. 6. Sorry, Lando. It would be much more resonant and interesting if Lando and the Falcon are swallowed up in flames after blowing up the Death Star core. It not only bring's Lando's character full circle from completely selfish to completely sacrificial, it adds depth and a bittersweet quality to the end of the film. 7. After Luke sees the spirits of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda, end the film with the sun setting over the rubble of the Imperial base, now in ruins, on Endor.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 10:24 a.m. CST

    dunno why but i have no interest in Avatar

    by smudgewhat

    looks super cartoony to me. not impressed by the imagery / animation i've caught in passing. PASS

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 11:26 a.m. CST

    I am more excited about the two Doctor Who specials

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    than Avatar to be honest....

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 2:04 p.m. CST

    ROTJ is more watchable than Wars 77

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    It's true.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 2:49 p.m. CST

    Fact: Lynch comes of as a jerk

    by Proman1984

    And conceted one at that. I like the guy but he was probably wrong for SW3 anyway.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 2:50 p.m. CST

    And at least Lynch had OPEN MIND

    by Proman1984

    While it's silly for Lynch to ridicule wookies.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST

    TakingScorpiosCalls...

    by ufoclub1977

    The entire movie ROTJ isn't worth just the sunset scene in Star Wars.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 8:20 p.m. CST

    'its well known'

    by Ryanbraun14

    Engelhast said: "Are you kidding? Lucas is a total control freak. It is well known."<br><br>This is a perfect example of how deluded star wars fanboys are: they are a MINISCULE segment of movie-goers who think they represent the average person who goes to see a flick. 99% of the population has NO IDEA nor do they care, about LUcas' directing style and decisions made before or during the making of the movie.

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Englehast

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    I agree with you that Lucas is controlling. But still I wonder why he would ask David Lynch, Paul Verhoeven, and David Cronenberg to direct if all he needed or wanted was a journeyman like Marquand to do his bidding? Do you think he just wanted their names for artistic credibility?

  • Dec. 11, 2009, 9:33 p.m. CST

    ufoclub1977

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    Woops i meant REwatchable. And that sunset scene was good, in fact one of the critiques of Wars is it's too slow in the beginning on Tatooine which i DONT agree with, i like how it takes its time to build up the trilogy in the beginning. But ROTJ just gets mroe rewatchability.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 1:18 a.m. CST

    More Lucas pot-shots, how fucking original!

    by ZodNotGod

    I love DUNE as well, but no way is it better than JEDI. Dumb ass douchers!

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 2:46 a.m. CST

    I like what the Ewoks represent

    by krushjudgement

    The common man rising up. And Dune fucking rules- yes I've read the book too. It is much better, but I love Lynch's movie.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 8:10 a.m. CST

    Jedi maybe best of orginal trilogy

    by even9

    Jedi was really my first starwars so bit bias there but..In New Hope, some of the inside Death Star stuff is abit too slapstick in relation to how good the rest of the drama is. In TESB, again some of the slapstick in Millennium Falcon detracts slightly from rest of film. Not because it's slapstick but just seems out of context. Don't really get that in ROTJ. ROTJ, when we see Luke dismantle Jabba's set-up from being walked of a plank, is great moment of seeing the difference of a Jedi. Also, just the fighting on multi-barges is great, the green lightsaber/Hamil Jedi moves against tatooine backdrop, and it’s a really good payoff to see the Jedi thing being realized. And as the story unfolds, you really do see that it is Leia and Luke who have lead to the downfall of the Emperor in diff. ways and Anakin's sad situation getting resolved. It's a pretty good conclusion, made more powerful after knowing all the shenanigans in the back-story of the Jedi/Republic/Anakin world gone sour 1st trilogy. Jedi's a top film. Jabba could mayby move abit more, have a slightly bigger pad, but those aside, it is a very worthy Star Wars flick. Oh, & on Endor, the rebels went to the backdoor entrance, hence the relatively smaller force of imperials they had to deal with even if more than wat was expected due to Palpatine's increase fortifications for the trap.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 9:46 a.m. CST

    RE: Lucas control freak

    by JamesT

    I think this probably can be linked to the one time he handed the reins of Star Wars off to someone the result was the Holiday Special.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    Lucas is his own person, get over it. He doesn't give a fuck abo

    by ZodNotGod

    BINGO! He got burned and said, "never again." Its his right, it's his baby, no one likes it, they can fuck a hobbit. Watch the fucking movie- EWOKS did not beat the Empire, they provided a critical distraction while Han and Lando did the dirty work. Dumb asses. Prequels rule, nuff said.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST

    Boba Fett = chump in a shiny outfit.

    by ZodNotGod

    Boba Fett beloved? Fuck you. I was alive and well when the originals came out so stop fantasizing about the chump in the shiny costume. He was a bit player. He got what he deserved. Bitching about him dying is like weeping over Odd Job's demise in "Goldfinger." FETT was a fucking henchmen, NOTHING MORE. Rooting for him is your problem. Check your morals, u fucking baby killers.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 4:47 p.m. CST

    First act of Jedi is so convoluted

    by Shaw

    "Ok, here's the plan. You hundreds of rebels won't be needed. Neither will any of your ships or weaponry. We kind of want to keep this a small affair. You understand. Lando, you infiltrate Jabba's palace. Not important how. Oh, but they might recognize you, so make sure you get yourself a mask that covers at least 23% of your face. 3PO and R2, you're just going to present yourselves to him. Yeah, he does sometimes disintegrate and otherwise torture droids, but he'll probably just station you guys somewhere important. R2, don't forget, make sure you're somewhere above, and to the side of Luke when he gives you the ol' aye aye captain. Leia, you're going to dress up like a bounty hunter and hand over Chewy. Despite Jabba's proclivity for decorating his palace with the bodies of his bested enemies, I'm sure Chewy will be fine despite the fact that his corpse would resemble a bear-skin rug. It's important that he be captured too because everyone knows that it's much easier to rescue two people than one. Then at night, Leia you should sneak out and defrost Han. Our plan relies on the fact that you will be able to defrost him, but not escape. If you were able to get him out, we'd just be back to square one because then we'd have to figure out how to rescue Chewy, 3PO, and R2. Luke, you get captured too. Then, the 7 of you will just get the hell out of there. It's almost too easy..."

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST

    ZodNotGod - Wrong again

    by spud mcspud

    Lucas is too fucking dumb to know when he's onto a good thing with a decent villain. Boba Fett gets accidentally knocked into the Sarlacc. Darth Maul - arguably the coolest villain since Vader - cut in half after only two fucking duels. Vader revealed, over the course of three movies, to be a whiny bitch played by a lousy actor who does things for no apparent reason except that the story demands it. Lucas cannot write for shit - the evidence is there in the movies. The STAR WARS universe will only hit the heights dreamed of by fanboys everywhere if it's left to other people - which is why EMPIRE, arguably the fans' favourite of all the movies, was rewritten by one of the writers of GONE WITH THE WIND (Leigh Brackett) and directed by someone who WASN'T Lucas (Irvin Kershner). And since EMPIRE was so well received, Lucas got a fucking mood on about other pepople doing it better than him, so he made sure he'd never be usurped again. All the good stuff in JEDI was Marquand's direction - all the shitty stuff? Definitely Lucas.<P> Lucas is the definitive boss who doesn't know he's no longer any good at the job that made him great. He could just sit back, let the young guns pick up and take STAR WARS to undreamed of heights of creativity - but no. He'll keep fucking it up, more and more, worse and worse, just to keep proving to the world that he can do it his way. It's stupid, it's immature, and - since you seem to fucking idolise Lucas' way so much - so, it seems, are you. Lucas is a twat who doesn't know the meaning of the word hubris, and its the fans who are paying for it.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 6:01 p.m. CST

    ZodNotGod - Strangely I agree with you

    by spud mcspud

    JEDI > DUNE any day. And I do really enjoy DUNE, but JEDI is fucking awesome. Nuff said.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST

    "It was there from the beginning according to Lucas

    by Baryonyx

    ... and I believe him." Well I don't. Lucas directed Star Wars: A New Hope as a stand-alone movie. You can TELL that it was a one-off, but it did very well and so he made more.

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST

    even9, Jedi less "slapstick"?

    by white_vader

    What are you smoking mate? I'll have some. This thread is entertaining, I'll say that for it!

  • Dec. 12, 2009, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Shaw - that was hilarious

    by ScienceMan

    Never quite thought of the Han rescue in that way. Brilliant analysis and funny, too. I remember when I first saw Jedi in '83, cringing when Leia lowered the carbonite coffin to the floor and the godawful racket it made, you just knew she was gonna get caught. And even at that young age, I thought it was a pretty inept way to execute the rescue, after going to all that hard work. Really? You're gonna manually and un-stealthily reanimate Han right in the middle of Jabba's chamber late at night and just hope no one wakes up? Really? If that is the extent of your plan, why not just have Lando do it? After all he's already infiltrated as Palace Guard #139. Whatever, still a great film Star Wars rules. Haters can eat a dick.

  • Dec. 13, 2009, 2:30 a.m. CST

    Ewoks represent the power of alliances

    by TakingScorpiosCalls

    I like how it's not just a couple of shitheads who take out hundreds of evil assholes like one of those arnold scharzenegger flicks, but shows how the rebels really are hardscrabble who harness strength from anyone and everyone they can to aid them like a textwork, the ewoks in this case.

  • Dec. 13, 2009, 6:27 a.m. CST

    Ha ha, "Rebels"

    by white_vader

    Not "terrorists". It's all in the semantics, isn't it?!

  • Dec. 13, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Oh, the missed opportunities!

    by ObiBen

    Ewoks directed by Lynch. Now I'd buy THAT for 2$!

  • Dec. 13, 2009, 5:31 p.m. CST

    Don't get me wrong

    by Shaw

    I love Jedi. I really have no problem with the ewoks. It's the Jabba stuff that bugs me.

  • Dec. 14, 2009, 1:24 a.m. CST

    thought Marquand faded off into oblivion

    by Meadowe

    just read on wiki that he passed away in 1987 from a stroke at the relatively young age of 49. that suqs.

  • Dec. 14, 2009, 2:08 a.m. CST

    What good is a reward...

    by TheUmpireStrokesBach

    if you ain't around to use it? Besides, directing ROTJ ain't my idea of courage. More like...career suicide.

  • Dec. 14, 2009, 7:46 a.m. CST

    SON, WE HAVE EWOKS THE LIKES OF WHICH...

    by The_Crimson_King

    EVEN GOD HAS NEVER SEEN!

  • Dec. 14, 2009, 7:47 a.m. CST

    I've always liked ROTJ btw...

    by The_Crimson_King

    in The Crimson King's humble opinion you can't knock any of the original trilogy Star Wars movies, hell even the Ewoks never bothered me

  • Dec. 15, 2009, 6:02 a.m. CST

    man, I'm always late to the party when it comes to these things.

    by The_Crimson_King

    fuck!

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