Cool News
Paul Greengrass Is Not BOURNE Again...
Merrick here...
Over the holiday, PlayList learned that Paul Greengrass was exiting the fourth BOURNE movie (details HERE).
Greengrass has now confirmed this to be true in a statement about his departure.
You won't find a more devoted supporter of the Bourne franchise than me. I will always be grateful to have been the caretaker to Jason Bourne over the course of The Bourne Supremacy and The Bourne Ultimatum. I'm very proud of those films and feel they express everything I most passionately believe about the possibility of making quality movies in the mainstream. My decision to not return a third time as director is simply about feeling the call for a different challenge. There's been no disagreement with Universal Pictures. The opportunity to work with the Bourne family again is a difficult thing to pass up, but we have discussed this together and they have been incredibly understanding and supportive. I've been lucky enough to have made four films for Universal, and our relationship continues. Jason Bourne existed before me and will continue, and I hope to remain involved in some capacity as the series moves on."
You can find more in Variety HERE.
No word yet on who'll fill Greengrass' shoes. At this time, it's not certain that any of the BOURNE 4 scripts in development will actually be used should a fourth film come to fruition.
More as more comes in...
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lmao
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furst.
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first!
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Good maybe they can get a director who can actually film a fight sequence that DOESN'T induce epileptic seizures.
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i read this two days ago on another site
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He already made another Bourne film in "greenzone" or whatever it's fucking called. At the end of the day the Bourne films have run their course anyway, right?
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Greengraas was what made the last 2 films so good, perhaps Doug Liman will return?
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Dec 02, 2009 12:09:42 PM CST
wouldn't it be terrible if they never made another one of these
by mynamesdan
ha ha ha ha haaaa
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never been so bored durin a "action movie"... oh wait, i forgot bout GI Joe
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Why not?
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Kidding, right? The last two films were crap whether shaky or not
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I also read this two days ago.... Why don't they just stick to the books! I know its not the same author, but its still pretty good stories. There Problem Solved, where is my check?...See it's not hard to be in Hollywood!
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Beacause he knows how to fucking Direct having made my two favorite Bond films, Goldeneye and Casino Royale. Greengrass and his Parkinson’s cam can piss right the fuck off.
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. . . but its time to move on. Can't complain. I'll be anxious to here whatever Greengrass does next. I always picture him adapting a David Morrell book. There's all kinds of kick ass material there.
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The series is perfectly good as it is. In fact, the series should have ended with Supremacy. That was an awesome ending with Bourne being given his real name and walking out into the streets of New York, one of the best movie endigns ever. Then they screwed that up in the third one. Don't get me wrong though, Ultimatum was a blast, especially THE GREATEST SHOT OF ALL TIME as the cameraman follows Bourne as he leaps off the room and jumps through the window. Fucking insane shot.
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I really enjoyed the first three Bourne movies but unfortunately, Matt Damon has so corrupted his brand through his political propagandizing that I can no longer watch a Matt Damon movie without associating him with his politics. Why do movie actors who depend upon the good will of the vast American public for their livelihood want to piss off 40% of the population with strident and ill-considered political and social remarks? Seems stupid to me.
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Do it!
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The worst thing about the last 2 films was the damn shaky cam. The first one is so much easier on the eyes. Good riddance. I'd be up for another Bourne if they leave the shaky cam at home.
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Seriously. Come on, Aint It Cool!
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There's a special place in Hell for shakycam directors and Greengrass is locked in for a lonnnnng stay. Be seeing you!
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While the last two movies were good, I really preferred the first one by leaps and bounds.
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UNITED 94: PORT OF CALL NEW ORLEANS
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That's what I expect from another Greengrass helmed Bourne picture. Good for him for leaving.
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Bourne 3 was a fine ending and ended the series in terms of a movie franchise just fine. Anything after it no matter how good the novel might be will still translate to crap on the silver screen.
Oh and Jettl93 please go and fuck yourself in a acid laced exhaust pipe. -
Dead On Arrival
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Dec 02, 2009 12:54:10 PM CST
Please no more vomit-cam, migraine-cam, or other crap!
by snake foreskin
just shoot fight scenes and chase sequences where you can actually see what the hell is going on! And how about production values that actually show all the money that the studio is spending on the movie? the last two Bourne films looked like they were indie art-house films, not blockbuster spy movies. Greengrass sucks ass.
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Dec 02, 2009 1:00:28 PM CST
who would everyone love to see direct a new Bourne film?
by therootstheroots
I would love to see Paul Thomas Anderson or David Lynch. If he was still alive, a Kubrick bourne film would be exceptional.
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They're perfect examples of quality thriller/action filmmaking that doesn't treat it's audience like four year olds (and whoever it was mentioning GI Joe in the same breath as Bourne is...well...insane, frankly). I find the whole shakey-cam argument extremely facile as well. Even when taken to it's most extreme extent (in parts of Supremacy) Greengrass' hand-held work is still head and shoulders above the crap seen in films like Quantum of Solace. Ultimatum was perfectly viewable despite all the whinging, and as previously mentioned had THAT shot, something that cunts like Michael Bay will never have the chops to come up with.
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Thanks for some of the best espionage action ever put to film, Greengrass.
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The franchise really took off when he got involved. He practically invented the shaky-cam technique and certainly perfected it.
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Ignoring the tedious shakey nonsense for a second - exactly HOW did the last bourne films look cheap? Looked plenty fucking good to me. I'm not sure how Identity looked 'costlier'. Or do we need CIA agents all working behind banks of plasma screens a la '24' because it looks 'kewl'.
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Universal can then get Cameron on discount to helm "Bourne 4".
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He's more than proven himself as a great director with Michael Clayton and Duplicity, and his scripts for all three Bourne flicks were key to the franchise's success.
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Actually I liked the shakycam stuff he used for action scenes. It's obviously not for everyone and there are other ways to shoot action, but I thought it worked well for movies as kinetic as BOURNE.
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Well now maybe we can get a director who can hold a camera steady. Seriously, as a filmmaker myself, Greengrass' preference of cinematography is horrendous! If you're gonna shoot like that, might as well get a child to do it. Can't shoot or light a scene worth any merit. In Supremacy, the fight scene in the house - you can't tell what's happening because the damn scene is all backlit like some amatuer hack filmmaker would do. Doug Limon knew how to film a fight scene.
Acting and scripting wise, these last two films have been great (Supremacy was better than Ultimatum for me), but time for someone who KNOWS how to shoot a film. A director who starts shooting without a script and constantly goes overbudget is poison for a studio. -
Had action sequences that half the time you didn't understand what was happening. Bourne had shaky cam, but you always saw what the fuck was happening. Even in "Ultimatum". The sequence at the Port Authority was ace.
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The camera moved to much it hurt my eyes! WHAAAAAAAAAAA!
You guys need to grow up. Those films are fantastic. -
Isn't he notorious for being wasteful? Like filming hours and hours of shit he never even uses?
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probably pretty good. Martin Cambell is an excellent suggestion. Nolan would probably be too much to ask.
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drop the british comedy aspect and he would be perfect. and would probably love to do it too.
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so this is no big deal at all.
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Though, Identity still has my favorite scene with him taking down that sniper with a shotgun.
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fourth Bourne movie by Greengrass. We'll just have to make do with Green Zone, which is in no way similar to the Bourne movies.
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The 3 movies were bookended so perfectly with the opening shot of him in the water, and then the closing shot of him again in the water. Additional movies will detract the quality of that overall story.
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...if there must be more.Sure, I'd watch another one...not that the world really needs it...
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...or even NOTICED this "shakey cam" crap people whine about. Even worse are the whiny, mincy little faggots who complain that it actually makes them feel SICK, how pathetic. Why don't you turds check out what movies Sandra Bullock or Cameron Diaz are doing these days, might suit your frail little selves a bit more. Pricks.
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doug..er..um..you know that guy...you used to make films er..vince vaughan(before vaughan´s career got bloated and ceased to be mr chuckles and did that atrocious film from this year that comedy couple retreat). Doug something. li-something
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one of the few that didn't fuck up at least 1/3 movies.
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I hope they make more if they can keep them as good. I think he can't keep having memories come back when it's convenient for the plot, though.
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01. KATHRYN BIGELOW 02. JOHN MCTIERNAN 03. ANTOINE FUQUA 04. PETER BERG 05. TONY SCOTT 06. RIDLEY SCOTT 07. MARTIN CAMPBELL 08. STEPHEN HOPKINS 09. JEFFREY NACHMANOFF 10. STEPHEN GAGHAN 11. DOUG LIMAN 12. ROGER DONALDSON 13. PHILLIP NOYCE 14. ANDREW DAVIS 15. PETER HYAMS 16. JOHN MOORE 17. JAN DEBONT 18. F. GARY GREY 19. SIMON WEST 20. TONY GILROY And if Damon doesn't wanna play ball, get CHRISTOPHER EGAN at 1/40th of the price.
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This was a great series while it lasted.
But the story ended in the last one. Bourne lives. Treadstone is dead. And the government stopped looking. Stretching it out is seriously pointless and cheapens the quality of the first three. -
The toys are already gathering dust on the shelves. Much as I am sure I will enjoy it, after the geek audience has checked it out, I just don't know if there is enough interest there for repeat viewings, unlike Titanic, which had Leo to keep all the tween girls coming back over and over.
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Titles to consider. Bourne to Death. Bourne on the 4th of July. Bourne before Dishonor. Bourne with a Passion. Bourne Forgotten. Bourne Remembered. Bourne vs. Predator.
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Damon has said that he won't do it without Greenglass; why do we need another film, if the first 3 were pretty good already? remember what happened with Indiana Jones?
Originality scares the shit out of studios, unless it's a video game or comic book. -
and the near total absence of plot or characterization! bring back the guy that did the first one.
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Bourne on a Boat. Bourne in the Air. Bourne on a Train.
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He would be perfect for this kind of material and wouldn't screw up the established aesthetic.
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If you listen to Greengrass's commentaries, he shows a deep intellectual grasp of how and why the Bourne series works. I doubt anyone can top his artistry in vehicular mayhem shown in Supremacy and Ultimatum.
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Stopped being relevant 20 years ago. Just take a look at his limp-dick effort on Ronin for confirmation.
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and they guy who saw it said he felt sick afterwards.
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dumbasses....
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jumper 2.
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is very good news for the bond people. great news indeed.
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car chases are always the most boring part of an action movie for me, but his were genuinely exciting. too bad Bourne was transformed into the Terminator in the two sequels, and personality and drama was thrown out the window.
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It's called Green Zone and coming out in the spring.
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http://tinyurl.com/nu6ou5
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Couldn't agree more. No more needed. And yes, that was an insane shot. Just the editing and pacing of that whole sequence was beyond impressive. As far as the shaky cam thing goes, if you look at the 2nd film it's actually pretty managable. He mixes it up with handheld, locked off wide shots and nice tracking shots. The third I would have to agree with the majority that he pushed it a little too far but by no means a deal breaker. I'm really impressed with this guy moving on to new challenges and not dipping into the same well one too many times. Smart Paul. Very smart. I have a feeling we'll be talking about this guys films for years.
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I guess that is one way to ensure a static camera.
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I just rewatched Ultimatum, and it once again amazed me. It's just a fucking cool flick. I suppose w/ Green Zone we have a bourne-esque film, but this is definitely a bummer for bourne fans.
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why people are afraid of sequels. Sure Indy 4 sucked, but that does nothing to diminish the greatness of the first three. Why not give it another shot? Damon is too good as bourne not to make another one.
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So you can ride insane rollercoasters all day or actually follow a Paul Greengrass film...Well, aren't you so fucking special? Me, I'd like to be able to enjoy the fucking fight choreography without it looking like it was being shot during a 9.5 earthquake.
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to hide spotty fx (Cloverfield) or to hide the fact that you know fuck all about fight choreography (Bourne sequels). its a cancer on film.
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Nothing like choreographing a fight scene for a month, only to have the audience get shit out of it other then motion sickness. Greengrass is a fucking hack.
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If they turned G.I.Joe over to Greengrass and let him reinvent it from the ground up. Could you imagine? But it'll never happen.
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I turned off Pelham 123 before the opening credits were even finished. I'm giving it another try but if the movie is anything like the title sequence Netflix is getting back a broken disc.
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fuck YES, give it to Bigelow...
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... to the Bourne saga. It was thanks to Bourne Supremacy that i discovered Paul Greengrass as a director, and thankfully i did. He's now one of my top favorite directors. He really is one of the ebst there is today. UNITED 93 has to be ONE OF THE BEST movie ever made, and not just of this decade.
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He's the one that proved Matt Damon could be a kick ass secret agent. Greengrass just gave it a documentary feel with all the handheld cameras so it would feel "real" and "gritty", and all the critics would go ooooooooh.
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in the next two we was just an unstoppable killing machine. it was pretty boring. In the first it was interesting to see the cat and mouse chase, in the sequels it was just bumbling morons trying to kill the unkillable.
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Tony Scott does settle down his usual ADD over-exposed, color filtered, WTF style to tell the story. To bad it was better told 30 years ago, fuck those that say otherwise. (Scott himself thinks the original was silly, the dumb fuck) The freeze frame at the end of the remake is eh, so what. The freeze frame of Matthau's face at the end of the original...classic.
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Bring him back...
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now bring someone who knows how to make good action scenes.
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this past summer and the video clerk (who had to be at least 30) didn't have a clue who Walter Matthau was, and I had to tell him that Robert Shaw played the "fisherman in Jaws", before some semblence of recognition appeared on his face.
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not Limon...
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havent a clue how good filmmaker. His stuff on northern ireland is exemplary. and you should checkout omagh. and bloody sunday with James nesbitt.
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that at the end of Ultimatum they use a remix of the Moby song instead of the same version used in the other two? That bugged the shit out of me.
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are two of the finest films about the northern irish conflict ever put on screen. greengrass's recreation of the events on both days is quite astounding.
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That would be Paul Greengrass.
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Good riddance to bad rubbish. This shaky cam, amnesia wannabe be spy shite can't hold a candle to the new Bond films anyway. Casino Royale is the film these Bourne borefests could never hope to be.
Daniel Craig is not only amazing as Bond, he's believable as a complete fucking badass. Matt and Trey nailed Matt Damon for exactly what he is...a pretty retard. -
When Damon's puppet came in, they thought it looked retarded, so they simply made him retarded.
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Couldn't agre with you more about Bloody Sunday. And the great thing is that he didn't need to really vilify anybody to show the wrong that day caused for the history of Ireland and UK. Just the facts, mam! Incredible piece of filmmaking that is Bloody Sunday. That movie should be used in film school to teach students how to make fictional documentary-style movies.I saw United 93 and Bloody Sunday back to back,a nd those two mvoies were the oens that made me say "enough" about suich blockbuster tripes as Transformers. Those two mvoies made me realsie i don't need to make concessions to "dumb fun" to be entertained by a movie. I don't need "dumb fun" to get my entertaiment. Quality suffices. Quality is the deal. I thank Paul Greengrass for that. I thank him for show that a blockbusterdoesn't need to be dumb to be effective and entertaining, as he proved witrh his bourne movies. He's not the only one making those, but he is a perfect example that intelligence and respect for the audiences are fundamental for making true entertaiment, and not antithetical.
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Indeed. Matt Damon even loved the movie. It's quite well known that he loves to mock himself and has done it repeatedly live on TV shows. His regreat is that he wasn't invited to voice the puppet of himself for Team America.
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Didn't Quantum of Solace destroy the Bond franchise? If not, it should have.
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People bitch about the shakey cam bitching because it has become another meaningless cliche (along with "it's not Shakespeare") that completely fails to make accurate reference to the films they're complaining about. It's akin to saying "I hate tracking shots in movies" when each director uses said camera moves in a totally different manner. Greengrass' handheld work is for the most part exemplary and totally different to the incomprehensible mess that is, say, a Micheal Bay shake-fest or the recent Bond.
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The Boreds fucking suck and were never meant to be anything like Bond thank God. Greenass is fucking hack! Keep that camera still you fucking lazy fuck!
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Would this be the Nick Michalak 'Director of Photography' for an incredibly amateur looking 'film' (and I use the expression in it's loosest terms) called THE FIXER?If so then you need to go get some actual REAL skills before you have the apples to compare yourself to Greengrass or his cinematographer Oliver Wood.
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People hate the camera moving like that because it DOES NOT HAVE TO! Why does a camera need to vibrate when its just two people talking like in United 93? Greengrass needs to stop giving out headaches with such a dumb style choice.
I challenge anyone to edit Greenasses's shaking scenes into a montage and compare it to say Speilberg, Scorsese and see how awful and incomprehensible Greengrass's scenes are. It's a dumb gimmick that serves no purpose other than to placate the ADD crowd. -
You said it yourself Asimov. Yes Greengrass' style suits those (United and Bloody) films because of their subject matter. They are based on true events and Greengrass gives them an immediacy through his documentary style. And the scene in the train station in Ultimatum should be standard viewing for film classes for its editing, and photography. It is indeed an absolutely brilliant scene. But should that same technique be used thoughout. Do we need a docu-reality feel when he's friggin crossing a street? Its not questioning Greengrass as a director, its his overuse of a certain technique. I'm actually very curious of his next film with Damon...Green Zone. Its looks like the movie Body Of Lies wanted to be.
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Would be very happy to see these fucking things stop. The third was all about Matty walking. Fuck off already.
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Dec 02, 2009 6:13:38 PM CST
Question: is shakey cam action better or worse than
by cronenbergresearcher
darkness action a la Ninja Assassin
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Movies like United 93 have been told many times before, hell, the 1970's used to have a movie of the week of stuff like this constantly and guess what- it was without the camera shaking and no one jeered the movie.
Imagine audiences of the 1970's, THE greatest decade of film-ever, putting up with this shit? Imagine The Godfather having the cam vibrate when Brando is talking...Exactly, because it would have been stupid and this is no different.
I don't give three fucks about cinema-verti; tell a compelling story and stop pulling audiences out of the movie with the shakes. I will repeat it again- IT SERVES NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN TO ANNOY.
No matter how good he could be as a Director, until he gets his cure for parkinsons, I won't watch his output. -
I do agree with you that on Ultimatum he went a bit too over-zealous with the shaky-cam. But the thing i noticed with Greengrass, even at his most shaky, you always know what is happeneing. you still know the geography of a scene. His blocking is still immediatly understandable. He mgith use a lot ofshaky-cam, but the scenes ar enever confusing in their relation to ther story and the space it happens. And this is his own brillance as director. Because many others have tried to folliw in his footsteps, and most have failed. Namely hacks like Michael Bay and evne the most AICN beloved Jar Jar Abrams. This guys do not understand the porpose and the specific use of the shaky cam, and when and where it's apt to tell a story and where it distracts FROM the story. That Greengrass knows the diference and his movies show that is a testement to the man's talent and intelligence. Paul Greengrass is the real deal. And this guy started on TV, but when he makes movies for the theater screen, he makes films, not glorified TV episodes.
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rather like ZodNotGod perhaps?
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Thee is one thing i agree with you, and that is that the 70s were the greatest decade of cinema. And that's the only thing i agree with you.
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The Godfather was actually an exception, as stylistically the movie was closely based on the filmmaking style of the 40s and 50s, as Coppola himself said in the DVd comentary. The godfather was made with a retro style deliberatly, to fit with the time period the movie was set in. Btu as regarding to shaky cam, in fact one of the most numerous thing one sees in 70s movies is how many scenes in so many movies were shot with handheld cameras. Most filmmakers in the 70s favoured a more documentary style of filmmaking. Directors like Spieberg and Lucas and Coppola brough back a certain "classical2 style of filmmaking because of their adoration for old school directors like John Ford, Frank Capra and Kurosawa. Scorsese ballanced between documentary and classic, and in fact he's much closer aestetically to the filmmakers of today then any other filmmaker from the 70s.
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I think tyhat Greengrass doc-like style for the Bourne movies works for the movies' benefit because the bourne movies play a bit more realistic in style to most of the other action movies. So, that sense of real helps those mvoies because it fits right in with the intention of the movies. And as that, Greengrass's shaky-cam style works and is welcomed for the Bourne movies. What is pathetic is when hacks misplace the sjaky-cam for movies that have no real need for them, movies which are super-fantastical in nature from the very conception, like Transformers and Star Trek. In those movies, it doesn't make on lick of sense for them to go shaky-cam. It's a testement to how misguided and fools Michael Bay and Jar Jar Abrams that supposedly professional filmmakers can't even understand such a basic notion.
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I would assume you're a big fan of Michael Mann. His trajectory from small screen to the big is very similar, and his command of the camera and editing is excellent.
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That fucker was locked down tighter than Megan Fox's ass!!
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and then The Conversation, all made within a short span. Stylistically they couldn't be farther apart, but are brilliant for the stories they are telling.
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I'd like to find out!!
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Just get a director who knows how to make cool action scenes,without shaking the cameras all the fucking time.jesus.
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once upon a time, these guys knew how to do action.
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...is a top-of-the-pile director.It is SO tiresome to read the endless whining of outmoded pussies who fear any kind of change or challenging idea whine about his camera technique. I bet you guys all listen to classic rock and claim nothing original or worthwhile happened after the 70s too, right?Sheesh.
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Actually, you've got that backwards. The BOND films are PURPOSEFULLY more Bourne-like by the very admission of two of the three screenwriters for CASINO ROYALE. To quote Paul Haggis, "Really, because of the change in climate of action movies, we needed a little Bourne in our Bond." If you watch the new BOND films, it's quite obvious they took a "grittier" avenue thanks to the BOURNE movies, so actually it's BOURNE that BOND now wishes to be. But, don't get me wrong, I LOVE the new BOND films. Love em. But personally I like the BOURNE movies slightly more. And I have no problem with Matt Damon's acting, I really think it's kind of easy and natural to attack good actors who also happen to be considered among the Sexiest Men Alive. As well, "shakycam" doesn't bother me, I've always been able to see what's going on. But that's me.
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Dec 02, 2009 7:32:32 PM CST
If you shake the camera to the point you can no longer see...
by onin solstice
...then you basically just wasted all the money and effort put into the making of a scene. It's like having an epic battle rennacted, only to shake the camera so bad you can't see shit. Then what's the point? Hey Greengrass, I got your realistic motion right here!!!
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wait i dont either. it was just shaky cam bullshit.
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If you can't see the difference between Greengrasses Handheld Technique and everyone else's "shaky cam", you're just not paying attention. Asimovlives is right. Unlike Bay and JJ etc., Greengrass still establishes geography and uses masters so you can see what the hell is going on. And as far as handheld goes, Greengrass has A MUCH steadier hand then the other guys. Also, someone above commented on how 70's movies didn't use handheld, well... you should watch The French Connection or A Clockwork Orange again.
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It should be fitting that they bring back the original director of The Bourne Identity who set the perfect action/drama tone of the first film, for this probable last film. Plus: a lot less people are likely to go through the GREENGRASS EFFECT = nausea.
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"Why do movie actors who depend upon the good will of the vast American public for their livelihood want to piss off 40% of the population with strident and ill-considered political and social remarks?"
Only the stupid 40%, though. So he's alright in my book. -
"Greengrass still establishes geography and uses masters so you can see what the hell is going on. And as far as handheld goes, Greengrass has A MUCH steadier hand then the other guys."
I would definitely agree with you re: Supremacy. But I felt things were significantly more disorientating in Ultimatum. -
"In those movies, it doesn't make on lick of sense for them to go shaky-cam."
I would lay the blame, if that's thr right word, at the feet of Saving Private Ryan. (So, thinking about it, it's actually Matt Damon's fault all round.) But in SPR, the technique is specifically used to convey a sense of mayhem and disorientation, because that is the goal of the script at that point. People then seem to have seen SPR, thought, "That looks cool!" and then employed the technique in places where it made NO sense to do so, leaving everything feeling wildly energetic but utterly incomprehensible.
As I said above, I felt that Supremacy got the balance right: raw energy but still sufficient coherence. I thought that Ultimatum went over the line in places. -
"Sure Indy 4 sucked, but that does nothing to diminish the greatness of the first three."
I will list here, in chronological order, all of the great Indiana Jones films:
Raiders of the Lost Ark
[End of list.] -
Well said sir, well said. There are just too many positives about Greengrass's directing to dwell and bitch about one single aspect like the shaky cam.
As for the new bond movies (especially Solace), they just tried too hard to be Bourne. You guys want to bitch about shaky cam? I dare you to watch Quantum of Solace and not walk out of the movie feeling like you had a seizure because of all the vomit inducing rapid cuts. -
I agree with you as well. the man likes to experiment (and God knows there's not enough directors today doing that) and sometimes the experiment doesn't quite work. He pushed it a bit too far in Ultimatum but I'm betting he knows this and will reign it back in a little for Greenzone. And your right about Private Ryan. And they even went a little further than most other handheld films. As well as handheld, the frame actually vibrates. They found or created a device that attatches to the lens that subtly vibrates the frame. You could even dial in the severity and length. It looks great too. I've never heard of anyone else empolying it however.
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Ty, sir. I agree. Most handheld films go too far. I have a great litmus test though. My girlfriend. If she has to get up to go to the bathroom because she thinks she might puke, they've gone too far. For instance: Cloverfield? WAAAAY too much. She actually ralphed. Private Ryan? Just right.
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and thus shitty.
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I teach hand-to-hand combat and close-quarters armed combat to SWAT and sheriffs' departments for a living, and I've spent 20 years in martial arts training from Kali (the art they use in the Bourne films) to JKD and BJJ and Thai, and speaking for my fellow martial artists, the vast majority of us LOVE the Bourne films. Other films that obviously take their cues from the franchise, such as TAKEN and the new BOND films, are okay, but honestly there is such an outlet for sporting martial arts (via the UFC), and almost no good outlets for no-holds-barred fighting that reveals the usage of improvised weapons in a three-dimensional environment. I enjoy good story and good characters, but I ADMIT that for no other reason than the representation of the deadlier arts (there are 3 "kinds" of arts; sporting, traditional, and combative, with combative representing the no-nonsense deadlier variety without rules) in film, I would pay for many more BOURNE films. Admittedly, sometimes there are those moments in BOURNE movies where they do a little "flourish" for the sake of showiness, but for the most part it's a NEARLY accurate representation of close-quarters combat--quick, efficient, and to the point, no 5-minute-long sequences, which are fun but for different reasons. Also, to those who complain that Bourne feels like an unstoppable "Terminator," well, you should see some of the guys who train this stuff ALL THE TIME. They're a little distant, their obsession with fighting and efficiency of killing is so great. You simply CANNOT hold a conversation with them unless you train SOMETHING nearly to the point they train it. The figure, "what else am I going to talk to you about?" Many of them are very much like the "Terminator" even though they tend to be smaller guys. P.S. I've also been training parkour/freerunning for the past 2 years, and I like what I'm seeing represented in Hollywood now, ULTIMATUM showed a decent bit, and the opening of CASINO ROYALE was awesome! There, that's my $0.02 for what it's worth.
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so he wanted to express "everything I most passionately believe about the possibility of making quality movies in the mainstream"? WTF kind of artist is that?
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will use a fucking tripod
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The first Bourne movie excited me. The last two were shit. Greengrass may be a good director in general but he is a shitty action director.
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True, SPR started the shaky cam action scenes. But in retrospect it's still very clear and the action still makes sense. You don't miss anything. Compare that to Supremacy's car chase in the tunnel. It's too blurry to even make out the choreography, which I'm sure was some amazing stunt driving. But we'll never get to see it because Greengrass is in love with motion blur.
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...and it's called Green Zone. At least the trailers make it look that way.
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There's nothing new or cool or interesting or exciting about shaky cam. It's played out. Old. An annoyance. Any director still employing it is a hack. Pure and simple.
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Geez, took some excellent stunts and action sequences and made my eyes spaz for all the wrong reasons even I loved the damn movies. No more free-hand shaky, shaky cam.
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The Bourne trilogy destroyed action cinema for years to come...
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Considering the story title reflects my aicn nick.
Seriously, bad news in my opinion but hoping they won't make it worse by bringing in a sub par director. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Cronenberg would be the perfect director for the next Bourne. Much edgier than Greengrass and solid film making skills. His action sequences are beautifully clear and breathtakingly alive. In addition Damon might be persuaded to work him because of his reputation. However note to Cronenberg I'd rather not have to see Damon's junk...
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Being a bit of a martial arts guy myself, I'm a Pekiti guy BTW, I appreciate Jeff Imada's work on the Bourne movies but the shakiness only distracts from his work. For some good Filipino knife work check out The Hunted by Friedkin. Sure it's pretty much only Sayoc but it's still pretty cool. For MMA style combat check out Donnie Yen's SPL(Killzone) or Flashpoint. Flashy use of grappling but awesome nonetheless. I never thought of mixing HK Kung Fu with Jiu Jitsu/Shooto/Greco but the fusion is wicked.
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Its a logical place to stop
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Frankly the action in the first film is still better laid out and filmed than the other two. Not saying it was better but he did a good job might as well give him a chance with the 4th.
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Change the fucking record guys, "Shaky cam is shit. I can't follow the action WAAAHHHHHHH!" In the Bourne flicks you see everything the director intended you to see, and frankly the close quarter fights in those flicks are some of the best and most satisfying in years. In fact, even in stuff like Cloverfield I don't get the whining, I saw everything I needed to in that flick. You can't follow it? Get your fucking eyes checked because it's clear you have a problem with slight motion.
Matt Damon gets a lot of shit because he's a pretty boy, and it's totally undeserved. He's a very natural and charismatic actor that never really seems out of place whatever the role. I'd buy him playing Nelson Mandela before I'd buy Ben Affleck playing himself.
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Completly bland and uninspired. The opposite of what Supremacy was.
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movies. It's simply a part of the style, and it works for Supremacy and Ultimatum. I can't believe there are people who couldn't get beyond that. Are you people serious? I liked Identity, but how any of you could actually prefer Liman's rather dry (and occasionally corny, e.g., the for-the-audience rogue's gallery of bad guy agents with the computer screen) movie to Greengrass' exciting, smart, tense entries is beyond me. Casino Royale is DVD-worthy, but it's just a poker-centric kinda-action movie (what was that sequence, like, an HOUR of "Oh, look, jack of spades! Wow!). Supremacy and Ultimatum are the best action spy movies of the last decade, easily. They have no real competition.
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It had what people loved about Casino Royale, minus the casino, thankfully. Although rich people shuffling little chips around is AWFULLY fascinating.
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But it all impinges on the quality of the script/plot and of course Matt Damon's commitment.
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Saw The Hunted, and loved it. I haven't seen those other flicks yet, I'll have to check em out. BTW, I'm also a Pekiti guy, although I've never gotten a chance to train with some of the big names like Tuhan Gaje yet, although the instructor I train under trains with Gaje's guy here in the States, Tim Waid.
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A franchise isn't a franchise unless it's had a shitty Ratner installment.
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Dec 03, 2009 7:42:12 AM CST
QUANTUM OF SOLACE had some bad shakycam but better than BOURNE 2
by spyguy
The big difference is, QUANTUM actually settles down after the fight scenes, giving the audience a chance to recover from all the shaking bullshit. Greengrass' BOURNE films are non-stop handheld shakycam pretending to be "realism."
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He can enhance every film with his satire, violence and nudity.
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You guessed correctly. Like you, i'm a big fan of michael Mann, and Mann when he makes a movie for the theaters, he makes a movie for the theaters, and not some over-bloated Tv episode. Need i use Last Of The Mohicans and Heat as example of that?
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Great to know you also have much love for The Conversation. That movie is terribly underrated, even in here at this place where people should know better. A true 70s gem.
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Not a bad idea. Maybe this time Bourne can get laid.... kinky style!
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You got to be kidding me. The shaky-cam of Tumour Of solace is not only obstruvtive, it's even hilarious. It's used as if somebody flipped a switch and shaky-cam mode set on. You have this scene of two people talking, and suddently one guy just lifts an arm and the camera goes all wild on the shakes. It's like a parody of the use of shaky-cam by bad filmmakers.And the thing is, i really liked the story of Tumour Of solace. Despiste my paroying, i liked the movie. but i'll never buy the DVD/blu-ray of the movie, as i did for Casino Royale. Why? The fucking shaky-cam, that's what.I defend the use of Greengrass's shaky-cam style for the bourne movies because he used them in eprfect tune to the needs of the scene. He shot his bourne movies like thay are documetnary-slike, and there's an aestetical consistency to the way the action is shot there. And as I and many others have said, never once Greengrass sacrifices geopraphy clarity for the sake of the camera tecnique. The excelent car chase in Bourne Supremacy is the supreme example of Greengrass's mastery of the techique. Newver once in the movie i lose any notion of what is happenening, to whom is happening, and where is happening, and what is the relations between the different character and where tyhey are place to each other. That's Greengrass's excelency at work. The fools who shot the action scene sin Tumour Of Solace they mad eit so incompreensible, that in that chase scene thatr end with Bond and some other dude handing ona scaterfold, i couldn't tell who was Bond and who was the other guy. That's when shaky-cam fails.I'm not sesitive to shaky-cam. I see it merely as a cinematic tool, the same way that slow motion is. but today rarely you see slow motion used in movies. You know why? Itr's an counter-reaction to the abuse it suffered at the hands of hacks from the 80s and 90s. shaky-cam is now suffereing a similiar fat,e what was once a very effective cmaera tecnique is now being abused by talentless fucking hacks who don't understand it's use and porpose, and just shove it in their movies to look "kewl" and "NU". The Bourne movies did it very right, Transformers, Tumour Of Solance and Jar Jar Abrams's STINO did it all very wrong.Again, i repeat this: shaky-cam is just a tool of the trade, and some filmmakers know how to use it, and othes don't and treat is as just the fashion of the moment. Greengrass belongs to the club of those who know how to use it.
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I don't think Greengrass is "pretending" at realism at all. It IS realism. I fight often, it's my job, and it's a confusing mix-up of what-the-hell-just-happened in real, knockdown, dragout fights. This is why most of us in the martial arts world appreciate Bourne in a special way. Finally, somebody showing it like it is. Now, if you don't like it, that's another thing entirely, and it's a completely valid point. But Bourne films ARE more visceral than, say, DIE HARD 4 or XXX or Fast and the Furious or even the Bond films (which, as I've said here, I LOVE the new Bond films). If you don't like the "shakycam" then that's fine, but I don't think it's fair to say that Greengrass is only "pretending" at realism, when really watching one of his films is about as close to the real world as you're going to get by watching an event third-person--only other way to get MORE real would be actually do the fighting yourself, or perhaps virtual reality whenever that happens. If you pan back and get to actually SEE the fighting, it sure does LOOK prettier, but it also looks completely choreographed. I'm a film fan (obviously or I wouldn't be here), but EVERYTHING in film has this built-in weakness, this level of detachment from the real thing. Despite how well the acting is in, say, the GODFATHER, one of my faves, can you imagine anyone talking with that kind of (I don't know what else to call it) "rhythm" and "cleanliness" in real life? Probably not. Real life dialogue has unplanned stutters and people pausing to search for the right word or backtracking or saying things like "It's like, ya know, and then I'm all, you know?" and meaning it SERIOUSLY and not for comical effect. It's how I could tell by turning on the TV to some random reality TV show the other night that was filmed using movie-quality film was a REALITY show, despite the fact that it LOOKED EXACTLY like a movie. The "stars" (if you can call them that) of these reality shows speak with that sort of "speak before you think about what you really wanna say" way of talking. Unrehearsed, awkward, misusing of words (like when they repeatedly used the word "mortified" to mean befuddled). I guess what I'm saying is, speech, REAL speech, like real fighting, is messy and convoluted, and if you panned back to watch the actual choreography, it would look like any other choreographed fight (not that I'm knocking that, because I LOVE LOVE LOVE Jackie Chan and those who do it well), but it would look clean, pristine, with very little unpredictability and only slight moments of "slip-ups" (which would still look rehearsed even under the best of conditions) added in an attempt to show "randomness." So Greengrass uses a camera trick constantly throughout a film to make the viewer never feel too comfortable, always squirming. Some like it, some don't. And that's FINE. But I believe saying he is only "pretending" at realism is unfair, when it's typically his primary goal. I'm repeating myself now, so I'm just gonna shut up. ;)
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Dec 03, 2009 12:38:19 PM CST
You mean we'll finally be able to actually see Bourne in the nex
by jacksparasites
You know who could make a great Bourne film? Doug Limen.
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I couldn't have made a better response to SpyGuy's misguided assertions about Solace if I wanted to.
Well done.
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I guess you like someone RUNNING UP AND DOWN IN THE DARK AND BREATHING HEAVY AND ALL YOU SEE IS THE FUCKG GROUND?!!! How does that shit count as a movie? Seriously. Dubmass.
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I was trying to write a summary of my thoughts on shakey-cam and Quantum of Solace, and you summed it up perfectly.Generally in Quantum I would lose track of who was who and what was going on until the action finished it was so damned incoherent. Which is a shame, because it looks like the stuntmen bust a gut on some of those scenes, only for them to wind up as incoherent messes. They were indeed so bad they were almost a parody - so much so that during the opening car chase I wondered if the film reel was busted.The Bourne films, on the other hand, cut quickly but elegantly and you never lose track.
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Couldn't stand his shaky cam and quick editing.
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Always handy to tell you how a film everyone loved actually sucks.
Thankyou Asshole Lives. -
Who is everyone? You?
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I love the Bourne movies, but a fourth film will feel forced. If they do make another one, please keep Liman the hell away. After Jumper and Mr and Mrs Smith, it's gonna take a lot to restore my faith in him.
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