Cool News
CNN has a great little interview with James Cameron on AVATAR...
Hey folks, Harry here with a nice 15 minute or so interview with James Cameron in his lair, where he's working on finishing AVATAR... tick ... tick ... tick ... And yes, I saw the piece that 60 MINUTES did, but Morley looked a bit lost and out of his realm in the interview. This guy for CNN, he's a geek - you can see it. Now, he doesn't seem to be greatly informed, but he at least has a healthy appreciation for Genre work. But what I love about this interview - is just watching Cameron have a conversation about this film - I love why he isn't sweating all the ThunderSmurf naysayers and feels they're incredibly healthy to the process of getting this film out there. And I love the bits of footage, which I can't stop looking at. Here - go check it out for yourself: Click Here To See It!
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I wonder .. by the time the movie comes out .. will we have seen all footage here on AICN ???
ah .. those lucky BNATers are most likely going to see the whole movie !!! -
wanna make love to Na'vi chick :)
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and out of his realm in the interview because he never actually thought he'd see the day when some fucking boob would spend $400 million during a depression to make a 3D video game about ten-foot-tall blue cat people with tails, VS the second guy to die in "Saving Private Ryan" and a Michael Mann repertoire bit player!
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"Ain't it Avatar and Star Trek News"
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The interviewer knew what he was talking about.
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If no one had mentioned this movie until a month or so ago, I might have been curious to see it. But after all the stupid hype, and the constant 'news' on this site, I just dont give a shit!
I hope it flops, and considering the $300 million budget, plus anpther $200 million in develoment costs over the years, the chances of it making any real profit are very slim indeed. -
Things just keep looking better and better for this movie. Every time you think you've seen it all, something else comes along to remind us that we've seen nothing. Neytiri looks phenomenal in those clips, it's amazing that she's completely CGI. This movie is gonna seriously take a lot of people by surprise and as a result become a monster. It's obvious from the interview Cameron hasn't lost a single step.
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What's the next move naysayers?
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Thanks to Titanic, he's made more money than God, and he didn't sink it into Avatar.
Personally, I think it'll be Dances with Smurfs. But I liked Dances with Wolves, so I'll probably like this pseudo remake enough to see it once. I just know it's not going to be the eyeball fucking extravaganza that some people seem to think.
As such, I doubt I'll be bitterly condemning it in Jan 2010. -
INCREDIBLE. It captures a genuine feeling of otherworldliness. I hope the story lives up to those visuals because honestly, as a lifelong special effects geek - my mind is just blown by that imagery. Fuck the naysayers Jim. FUCK THEM.
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This is one of the reasons why no film bombs today. No film bombs. Even if it doesn't recover its costs on the theaters, there's the video market. Studios don't lose money anymore.
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its good youre doin so well but what about william wisher, lasat i heard he was on welfare
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The movie has some nice, touchy-feely international concerns, so I'm predicting the bulk of it's gross will actually be outside the US, where it's plot might be construed (and condemned) as an anti-Bush, anti-corporate screed.
The studio definitely seems to be hedging its bets on that...here's the release dates worldwide, which are almost simultaneous (these are Euro-formatted, so it's "date/month/year"): http://tinyurl.com/avdates
Opinions? -
The guy asking the questions does a good job of asking the kinds of questions a fan boy would while still coming across as a professional. Can't wait for Avatar! Keep coverage coming.
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he was as good a filmmaker as jj abrams.
buddy did you see star trek? -
best movie evaH!
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did he make Star Trek?
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good point zat8sumerian
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buttplug easch and every one of you,
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anyone would be hating on Avatar now - yes, the Na'vi designs are shit but all in all, this is looking to be everything we could have wanted from JC, considering that he must be the most comfortable, yes-man-shielded film-maker after Lucas. This won't be Aliens, or even T2, but it will still fucking kick all the Zack Efron rom-coms and Keira Knightly costume-dramas that we have to look forward to in 2010, in the crotch - deep in the crotch. Before savagely fucking them in the eye sockets, naturally.
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Still just expecting a popcorn flick. Hopefully without all the hamburger-laced butter.
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I'm a bit of an AVATAR skeptic, but I'd still rather watch it ten times backwards in Chinese on a b/w TV set then see that FPOS STAR TREK again. In 3D.
Go see what your mom's doing upstairs. -
Everyone that posted a comment here will be going to see this. By the way, this movie is not over-hyped, we're just disproportionately exposed to news on it because we're on the web. Non-filmgeeks didn't hear about this until the trailers came out--and they're all interested, even my 70yr old mother who knows nothing about sci-fi. And how are you critiquing the design of the aliens? Are there some abductees on here who've seen real life ones?
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http://streamingmovies.ign.com/movies/article/104/1047900/avatar_trl_thanator_chase_wmvhd.wmv
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really..where the fuck is the cool news these guys report? apart from their set visits and interviews..its the tb'ers who seem to be finding the 'cool' shit..
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F*ck you, James Cameron!
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is what made me buy a ticket..yeh, i dont like blue cats anymore than the next person..but this guy knows how to do action..in 3D Imax, for all its possible failings this thing will still be worth seeing.
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and that is pretty fuckin impressive!
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thats the clip that was on Xbox live in europe i believe. Seeing it in HD was interesting...i still kinda cringe whenever i see his fucking tail..its so SILLY. The 'elf-like' designs do nothing for me but that scene is so well done..how cool is the water!?!
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...comes out....he said, six months too late.
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You guys are fucking idiots.
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This is making the first TRANSFORMERS movie hype-machine look like a fucking amateur operation. Christ, I'm gonna go read a Coax article to detox...
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and please dont ever insult everyone's intelligence by saying JJ is a better director than Cameron. I enjoyed jj's trek, but JJ cant film an action scene to save his life compared to Cameron. When JJ learns to pull the camera back, stop overusing shaky cam, and close ups during space scenes, or can pull off a series of action set pieces that all flow from each other with each one building on the previous (last third of Aliens, T2 especially) then we can talk....
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when he made MI3. When I see Cameron copying JJ, then we can talk...
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The interviewer was about as good as you can ask for. I thought he was very well informed. If anything, he was "dumbing" it down for a general CNN audience. Geez.
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Cameron does nt give a shit about the thundersmurf crowd lol...And thats exactly how it should be imho. The day filmakers ignore their vision/talent/instincts to pander to fanboys/fandom will be the day the average person ( 90% of film watchers) will stop watching movies because they dont want to sit through stuff like snakes on a plane or Watchmen....
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Sour grapes. tsk tsk tsk.
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Really don't know why anyone would doubt Cameron on this one. The man just doesn't make bad films.
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Amatuer in the extreme. It's not fucking hard to accomplish correctly! Good interview though. Most promo bullshit makes me want to saw off my own legs. Still not sure about the movie though...
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no demographic is not going to know about this film. the thing is, the film is going to need to do a lot of repeat business, and you can't really plan that. It might be very good but if it doesn't strike a chord, it's not going to do dark knight numbers, nevermind Titanic numbers. Then again, look at Transformers 2 box office numbers and you realise we live in a fucked up world
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Couldn't of done better myself.
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Excellent point. Also see Punisher:Warzone (you'll be just about the only one who did).
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Male geeks don't matter. I think that's what really pisses them off about the success of those two movies. They don't need us to make big time cash.
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with New Moon, i think the studios have sussed out how to make money out of girls. But i think Avatar has that angle covered, with that whole romance angle heavily promoted
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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha
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fucking incredible!!!!
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Jesus Christ it's amateur hour
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has a short Avatar creature design video up, and the thanator chase sequence with a clear picture, and with Horner's score. Sounds a bit Aliens like to me...
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to "Dances With Wolves" and "Fern Gully", I'd have about $5.70.
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On a vaguely memorable episode of the original Star Trek series, a race of pre-industrialized human beings were featured as pawns between the Klingon Empire and The Federation. They, this rag tag race of humans, were very simple...and peaceful, but the Klingons showed-up and began to threaten the indigenous people, even executing some of them--this, as the Federation urged the locals to fight back, but to no avail. In the end, the simple humans, reveal themselves to be not so simple God like ETs.That is how I would have written Avatar. The humans from Earth should be interacting with others whom like ourselves, members of a pre-industrialized culture which explorers from Earth discover on another planet. Instead of respecting the culture of the locals, the technologically savvy humans from Earth, seek to storm the planet and take its riches for themselves, just like they have done on Earth, and throughout its solar system--hence, starts the conflict between the two sides, technology versus spirituality...and greed...versus the natural order, the defense of one's homeland and people, etc. Now here is the twist, like the Star Trek ep, the pre-industrialized humans, cornered and beaten by the high-tech armies of the invaders, reveal themselves to be God like aliens--enter the motion capture technology. The aliens tell the humans that they chose this moment and time for first contact with the human race, as a test for humanity to see if we are ready to reach-out in outer space to join the greater galactic community--something the aliens do with every race that is on the edge of being a type 2 space ferrying race. However, with the humans proving that they are still a violent, warring, and selfish race, they, the humans, will be denied that opportunity until the day that we can show ourselves to be worthy. The humans are then instantly returned to Earth--their technology no more, they stand in the rags, huts, and familiar tribal conditions the aliens whom they encountered, at the beginning of the story, were in. One of the humans says to another, "Maybe someday, we'll be ready to move-out into space, when we've matured and are able to pass that test-- until then, we are going nowhere fast, it appears? (beat) It's getting cold? We'll need to build a fire...the only technology, they have left us with?" Quickly, another man speaks. "They can take our technology, but we can rebuild it all, from rockets to..." His voice trails off. Suddenly he pauses, looking dumbfounded. A woman speaks-up, a curious look in her face. "What's a...ro--ck--et?", she beckons. "I-I...don't know?"...the man replies. "Strange, somehow...it seems...like I use to know?" Suddenly we see the humans begin to de-evolve into cavemen like creatures...their speech patterns turning into unrecognizable grunts. Yards away, unseen...and standing in the shadows, 2 of the aliens can be glimpsed watching the scene from afar. One of the ETs speaks. "Perhaps in a million years, they will pass the test--although somehow, I fear they will fail yet again...as they have many times before? (beat) They can't stay cavemen forever. If they manage to thrive without destroying themselves...or others, they will see the wisdom of making war and greed...obsolete--it is only then, will they know a greater wealth--that of peace and benevolence? That is they day they will be ready to join us...and explore the heavens." The End...Fade To Black.I'd love to see that movie. Avatar--as it presently is, looks too cartoonish? We were denied seeing many of the actors, in favor of CGI puppets...and that hurts the feel of the film. My way would have given Cameron a way to present the film with a more grounded look for the main characters...as simple humans, who were somehow born with near identical DNA to us, thus ths tweak of the script, would have given the onscreen events a better balance between the two cultures, and helping to play to one's suspension of dsbelief--instead, the film looks like Who Framed Roger Rabbit???
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Cause after this NOBODY will even have the balls to consider spending that much money on a movie.
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point with Punisher: war zone. In what parralell dimension is anyone but fanboys going to sit through or like that pos? And thats exactly the problem imho. Fanboys want stuff like Watchmen, but no-one else gives a shit about that stuff or even thinks its all that important. And lets not get started on how fandom always wants things that it should nt ever get. For years we demanded seeing the Clone Wars, and what did we get? For years we wanted to see the future war in Terminator, and what did we get?
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want, but what we really want imho...And that is new and original films. Especially in this climate of endless remakes/reboots/prequals/sequals etc...Lets just think about how few films are original this year....
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He can't even smile right.
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The guy wasn't afraid to ask decent questions, and it wasn't a discussion of "star values" and all that. More like that, please Jim!
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...preaching to the choir, man. The director of Warzone (forget her name now) actually posted on sites like this one and superherohype asking fans what they wanted. Of course the answer was blood, guts, gore,exploding heads, etc. But guess what? She took their advice and made a neigh unwatchable film. I'm a fan of the character and still haven't seen all of it. Agreed on salvation as well. "Judgement Day" was best left as an only partially seen, briefly alluded to event, a "possible,inevitable future", kinda like Ragnarok in norse myth. Cameron no doubt knew this instinctually and abandoned ship gracefully. His instincts are a huge part of what make him such a phenomenal film-maker imo.
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Nov 24, 2009 10:17:30 AM CST
But does it have child molestation done in good taste?
by zombieheathledger
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needs to come out of the closet....That being said, I'm getting more and more excited about this film as the days pass.
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Nov 24, 2009 10:22:59 AM CST
GOOD INTERVIEW AND I LIKE LISTENING TO CAMERON TALK....
by tehcreepythinman
He always seems to be very down to Earth and understands the bigger picture surrounding his movies as opposed to some Director's who are up their own ass. He might be a hard ass, during shooting, but you have to understand that Director's have soo many people trying to push and pull the project in every which way that you have to keep everyone in line as to what YOU want. I'd rather have someone who was passionate about their movies otherwise Avatar would end up like The Phantom Menace or Indy 4. It might very well be as bad as those movies but I don't think it will because Cameron actually likes making big action/adventure movies where as Lucas and Spielberg only do them for the money.
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It wasn't an awesome interview by any stretch, and the kid came into it with a lot of hero worship, which is fine. But I appreciated the tone and scope of the talk. Cameron has been taking his meds, it seems. No Iron Jim to be found here!
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about1/2 of us are pretty level-headed and intelligent. The better half are just raving lunatics, though. Oh and the less said about the sw prequels together. I don't think there's anything else that I can say about them that hasn't already been said about the H1N1 epidemic or genital herpes.
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that should be, "the better".
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dude is a genius in more ways than one
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one of the directors cool enough to realize that fun trumps preaching any day.
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I loved the first cut of The Abyss when I saw it. But then I saw the director's cut - saw how they had cut most of the story from the film, and how the first cut hangs together well until you have seen everything that was removed. Then it feels completely unfinished.Which is to say, I have a lot of faith in James Cameron's vision and this interview made me genuinely excited for the first time since the sizzle started. I hope it's the kind of film I will see a few times in it's theatre run - but even if it isn't, I'm still there one time without reservation.
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I find it hard to believe that interviewer has, or ever had, a girlfriend.
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Kudos. I was going to have buck rarebit for lunch, now I don't need to.
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Should realize that it was the Twilight demographic that made Titanic the biggest hit of all time. Titanic would have done well without the teen girls, but it would have never beat Star Wars without the repeat business, and it wasn't Cameron's loving shots of the boat that made it big. Sorry, guys.
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"You're not really blowing my skirts up, here, gentlemen..." Yeah, I'll second that, James Cameron.
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But at least he's using his brain. But, I would say, MM.. you will change your mind if you see it in 3d. It IS immersion, nearly full immersion (full immersion being the ability to change your point of view by moving your head around) for the first time in film.. ever. And when you see this finally in 3d, you'll know why it's been so difficult to convey with words. But having said that, I understand why you'd look at it the way you do. It's fair assumption.
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but these clips just keep getting better and better. The performance capture and environments all look outstanding.
I'm ready. -
This is evident by the conversation here. If anyone can make a film that costs somewhere around a half billion dollars profitable It will be him..I think this film will even be profitable
in the foreign market where the tech for 3-d may or may not sell the film..It will be interesting to see if it generates that repeat viewing that made Titanic so successful..Go Big Jim you can do it!! -
Nov 24, 2009 11:41:18 AM CST
The only reason people think they've heard too much...
by azlam orlandu
...is because they spend too much time on forums. There hasn't been a media storm for this film, other than fanboys over thinking it.
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James Cameron gives two shits and a fuck about the so-called "thundersmurf" crowd? Do you really think he stays up late at night pouring over AICN talkbacks in a cold sweat thinking- "O God they might be right!"?
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Looks just like kiddie trash,...with a save the environment "message".
Maybe he should have just remade Piranha...what with so much CGI at hand.
Cameron is somewhere between a hack and a fluke...ala Lucas.
Completely capable of making good film,...but only on a budget.When you take the budget away,...you get Jar Jars.
In two weeks,...Cameron will be crucified here for a shite film...but only in talkbacks,...as the reviewers all have their hands on his penis....stroking. -
James Cameron's been out of the public spotlight for more than a decade. For movie fans like us it's been a very long wait, but for the average Joe it's like "Remember that Titanic movie that made a shit load of money and all those Oscars? The director also did The Terminator movies and Aliens. Well, the he's back with a new movie. " That's all the promotion he needs.
I have faith in James Cameron. -
...kiddie trash...environment 'message'...Piranha...CGI...hack and a fluke...shite film...penis...stroking...Thank you kind sir for showing me the error of my ways. Begone AVATAR, begone CAMERON, begone SATAN, begone I say...
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If he tried telling him what he wanted and what to trim, and Cameron just looking at him like, "the fuck?"
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What film do you deem worthy of our praise?
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Are you crazy? Did you not read the post directly above yours? Do you not see the folly of your ways? Any minute now...and the great Doc_Hudson will tell us which movie is worth our hard earned money......waiting...
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My girlfriend's right. He's way more laid back than he used to be. The hell of the titanic shoot has changed him. he reminds me of Francis Ford Coppola in Hearts of Darkness. The young man who made Apocolypse Now comes off as an arrogant, spoiled prick but the older Coppola interviewed in 1990 is grounded and humble. Now, normally this would worry me but then I remembered..... Big Jim doesn't have any kids to pander to like Lucas and Speilberg. Also, he said all the right things in the interview. I love that the look of Pandora was inspired by Nature. I suspected as much from the trailer. For a completely designed environment, it looks remarkably organic. Very Wayne Barlow. Me likee. Yep, Big Jim's still got the juice. I ain't worried.
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I know you spent a long time writing that up, but dude, THAT IDEA HAS BEEN DONE TO DEATH, and it's not very good in the first place. It's one of the 2-3 story ideas that Gene Roddenberry had in his entire life, and he kept regurgitating it over and over in his work. Not just TOS, but in his made-for-TV movies like Questor, Star Trek: TNG, the Motion Picture, and so forth, i.e., humanity needs to always be "judged" by an omniscient alien race to prove itself "worthy." The last thing that Jim Cameron (or anyone else, including you) need to do is resurrect one of Roddenberry's most overused (and frankly, terrible) ideas again in a $200 million movie. If you're going to "rip something off" (preferably not) then pick something BETTER. Pick Shakespeare, or a classic or modern S/F novel that actually has good ideas. (And don't rip it off; buy the rights to it.) Enlist some genuine S/F writers like Gregory Benford, or Greg Bear, or John Scalzi, or Greg Egan, or Robert Charles Wilson to co-write the screenplay. Make an S/F movie about ideas that aren't 40-year-old cliches we've already seen countless times.
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Stop stealing my ideas. And you left out Alastair Reynolds and Gene Wolfe. :)
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knows oh so well, way better than Cameron himself, I mean you did direct the epic, cult movie called... called what ? Did you make anything worthwile in your life ?
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You're dead on, man. I'd even go one step further. My friend said this once about Star Wars and I think it's so true: "Lucas gave people what they wanted before they even knew they wanted it." That's what a truly visionary filmmaker sets out to do. He should be one step ahead of the zeitgeist. Big Jim sure is.
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Nov 24, 2009 1:09:21 PM CST
Doc Hudson, thanks for probably one of the dumbest
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
most ill-informed posts I've ever read. Got a good laugh out of that one."Cameron is somewhere between a hack and a fluke..."That'll be why he's had consistent success then? Some fluke. As for the word 'hack', dumb bastards like you should crack open a dictionary and learn the meaning of the word instead of casually tossing around arbitrary nonsense. Cameron doesn't qualify for the term. "Completely capable of making good film,...but only on a budget.When you take the budget away,...you get Jar Jars." What the fuck? You think the quality of his work has anything to do with the budget? Cameron has made great movies on both low and high budgets. As for the asinine comparisons about Jar Jar, they're about as applicable as the smurfs.Actually, why am I even wasting my time here? Put down the crack pipe, you ignorant cunt. The sheer bitterness and jealously seeps from these loons like unwashed grease pouring from their fat, sloth-like bodies . Cameron is going to have another classic and box office smash on his hands - rage all you like, it won't change a thing. But in any case, that's somewhat besides the point. The fanboy crowd, or at least a specific segment of it, is nothing but a collection of truly vile, negative individuals. I bet Devin Faraci is stewing in his disgusting bile as we speak. I hope that fucker throws himself off the nearest bridge when Avatar triumphs.
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I'm criticizing Media Messiah's idea and suggestion about who Cameron "should rip off" -- NOT Jim Cameron himself, or Avatar. Re-read Media Messiah's post and my response before you dash off another silly fanboy retort.
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It's been 17 years since T2 and 12 years since Titanic, and those of us to whom those movies appealed at the time are our their 30s-40s now, while most of the brainless automata that pass as young crowd these days and who expend 80% of their times jerking off to internet porn and playing Modern Warfare 2 weren't probably even born or were very young when T2 was released. There are exceptions of course, but most of those things simply don't know who James Cameron is, and being raised in this Halo/MTV/Bayformers/MontainDew era simply doesn't help things out, as opposed to those of us who grew with things like Die Hard, Aliens Predator, Indiana Jones, Blade Runner, Ghostbusters, etc, which were all fun products while being great quality.
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The cinematic equivalent of purple wolves and dolphins airbrush art on black velvet! Bazillions well spent.
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Well said.
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Everyone thought Dark Angel would be a huge TV shows. Some even proclaimed it would become rival The X Files and Buffy in the popularity stakes. Cameron was heavily involved in the creation of Dark Angel. He even wrote and directed the final extended episode at a staggering budget of a rumored $16m. The show tanked and was camcelled after just two seasons, despite having a budget far greater than 95% of other shows at the time. Just goes to show that not everything Cameron touches turns to gold. He is capable of fucking up as much as anyone else. He is not a creative demi-god, far from it.
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It seems to me the one factor no one is really touching on is the fact that the human's are the bad guys in this, and the aliens are the heroes. That might be the downfall of the narrative and it's going to be what puts off viewers. Just the idea of it is putting me off.
Sure, we see Dick Cheney villainized on CNN, but this is about marines and blue collar soldiers killing wholesale for profit.
I think movies that portray soldiers in a bad light are generally not well received these days. -
I feel like cartmen. i just want to go to the mountains and freeze myself till it comes out, come on , come on already this site is killing me, its not even dec. yet.Q should i watch a 3d movie before i check this out in 3d?..Oh tim burton should never make movies! that is all
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is pretty cool gotta install adobe air? for some reason though, sorryhttp://tinyurl.com/y8hr7hf
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Everyone thought Dark Angel would be a huge TV shows. Some even proclaimed it would become rival The X Files and Buffy in the popularity stakes. Cameron was heavily involved in the creation of Dark Angel. He even wrote and directed the final extended episode at a staggering budget of a rumored $16m. The show tanked and was camcelled after just two seasons, despite having a budget far greater than 95% of other shows at the time. Just goes to show that not everything Cameron touches turns to gold. He is capable of fucking up as much as anyone else. He is not a creative demi-god, far from it.
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This is easily the biggest 'geek' movie coming out within the span of at least 6 months. Obviously it's going to get a lot of coverage here.
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someone must know the plot for cameron's version
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Some of the facial expressions on the Navi are far beyond anything I've seen before on an animated face, particularly Neytiri(?)A lot of it looks exactly what it is (CG), while some of the close-ups make me think "actors in make-up." Impressive work.I'm still not sure about this, but me ticket is booked - 11am, Dec 18.
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I also enjoyed the added footage from the film, though I know I've literally seen nothing of what I'll see in the theater.
It's been an amazing year for science fiction movies (Moon, District 9) and I can't fucking wait to see this! -
what are you some fucking knobhead? theres a reason why JC is doing what hes doing and why your here writing shit on AICN talkback, ill let you figure out the reason.. This film looks unreal, the story, the effects the character, you just now Jim has nailed every last bit of it, cannot wait for this movie
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and instead of exploring it, we've not only figured out how to clone the inhabitants but to also psychically control them? I don't think I'm interested in seeing this flick. The premise is retarded... And from the action I've seen in the trailer, I don't think I've got the eyes to digest that much CGI/action. I'll pass.
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Methinks you've misunderstood.
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Well done sir. I guarantee you Nerd boy falls into that demographic.
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exactly my thoughts
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i have to download and install an app just to watch it? thats lame. they should have just posted the videos on the site. this feels very gimmicky.
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people are getting to see more and more and really get an idea of what it is Cameron is trying to do. Of course the same bitter crowd will continue to sulk and whine while stewing in their bitterness, but who cares about them? The rest of us will be watching what looks like a really fun sci-fi action epic....
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that true lies is the greatest action movie of the 1990's. thats cazy talk. true lies, i think, is camerons worst big budget action movie and is average at best. and aliens was cool, but it was a sequel. cameron only added the marines to that mythology. i guess what im saying is that cameron is good at visuals and directing. but, his writing leaves a lot to be desired. hope avatar can live up to its own hype...
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there with you. That is exactly what Lucas did in 77. Could you imagine if the internet existed then? The talkbacks would be filled with the same hate and bile by people that cant handle someones success or when something is made in a new way...Cameron has, for better or worse, clearly made HIS film. And since the guy is one of a few select film makers (ala Spielberg, Jackson) that has the creative instincts that allow him to tap into the zeitgeist, Im willing to give him the benefit of the doubt...
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the more that people see of this movie, the more people are disillusioned by it. i think the pre hype did a disservice to this movie by putting the idea in peoples heads that they were going to see something revolutionary. something they had never seen before. which has turned out to be not true. we have seen this before in the star wars prequels. or in the lord of the rings triligy. or even in the matrix trilogy (mech battles). im going to see it of course. but, will this be phantom menace all over again?
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dude, have you actually watched Aliens? He added a hell of a lot more than marines. What about the hive? the queen? the explanation of the alien life cycle? and thats just to name a few examples. Nevermind that Aliens isnt just a sequal considering it sits in the esteemed company of ESB, TDK etc..as the best sequals and absolute examples of how to do a sequal correctly. It set the template for making a sequal whereby you take the same characters and universe, but make an entirely different genre of film...
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lesser films, it is an awsome action film imho. You cannot fault the action set pieces, and its damn funny too (who here does nt love Paxton's car salesman?) while being a good parody of action films at the same time (perhaps you missed that?)...
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Interesting you heard that because i know some people who overheard Cameron talking about it at some private dinner or something and he basically said that he had to do a TV show for FOX because of contractural obligations (I'll bet it has something to do with all the titanic chaos)and he had "no idea" what the show would be so I'm pretty sure he pulled that show out of his ass. Also, on a tv show, the creator more or less decides there own level of involvement. Take Twin Peaks for instance. The first season, Lynch micromanaged the shit out of that show and it was awesome. The second season he stopped giving a shit and started preping Wild At Heart and the second season definately suffered for it. So, I'm pretty positive that Cameron came up with a quick and dirty premise and then went on with his life until FOX badgered him constantly until he finally decided to direct the finale. Jessica Alba owes her carrer to the fallout from titanic.
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backwards regarding people's reractions. I think as more has been shown people are getting more exited and convinced. And remember that hype you talk of has only existed on internet film geek sites, for everyone else (90% of film watchers) there has been no hype, and no dissillusionment as only now is the public at large becoming aware of this film...
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I think there's also another factor at work here. It's been a loooong fucking time since a tentpole film hasn't been based off a comic book, toy, game, video game, young adult book series, etc. I think it's actually scaring people. The audience has actually become distrusting of new, original ideas. It also doesn't help that the most of the original ideas that have come out in the past decade have bombed pretty bad (The Fountain, Watchmen, Lady in the Water...). People see something new that they can't refrence to a previously made product and they immediatly become distrusting. It's like it just doesn't compute. Hollywood has gotten geeks to retreat back into there own adolescence. It's sad. It reminds me of that line from that Men At Work song (Who Can It Be Now): "I like it here with my childhood friend. Here they come, those feelings again!"
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tinyurl.com/yjmtwd8
tinyurl.com/yzkq56g
tinyurl.com/ygqqglz -
tinyurl.com/ygnxunv
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reading that Wired article gives him more respect in my eyes.
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great read with tons of behind the scene photos and concept designs.
James Cameron’s New 3-D Epic Could Change Film Forever:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/11/ff_avatar_cameron/all/1
Inventing Effects to Create the Avatar Universe:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/11/ff_avatar_movie/all/1
5 Steps to Avatar: Reinventing Moviemaking
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/11/ff_avatar_5steps
interactive trailer:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/11/avatar-technologically-advanced-even-in-the-trailer.html -
this film is gonna be fucking huge. I realized it about 2/3's of the way through that interview. Right about the time he mentioned January being a 'soft' period to release a film like this. I've been on the fence about it, but I also think some of what Seniorspielbergo said is true... people forget what it's like to get a WHOLLY ORIGINAL GENRE FILM that creates an entire universe. Everything lately has been based off of pre-existing properties. I do believe that some people just don't know how to process originality anymore and that when you see it, even though some of the elements are the same (Star Wars, perfect example) as everything you've seen before, that's EXACTLY what makes you prejudge, not realizing that you're just behind the curve and someone like Cameron is ahead of the curve. He's just sitting there, waiting for you to get where he is. Lucas did this twice in the 70's, first with American Graffiti and then with Star Wars... then with Spielberg and Indiana Jones. Kubrick did it with 2001... it's a matter of knowing where the audience is before THEY even know it. And there are people who see the early images, think to themselves for a second while they process it and go, "I fucking get it!" and then those who are like, "Oh, that's stupid, unoriginal, blah, blah, blah..." Sometimes one half is right and sometimes the other half is right. You have to be a fucking idiot to not hope that the first half is right because when they are, cinema history and the moviegoing experience becomes enriched by it.
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beat me to it. :)
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Nov 24, 2009 9:50:38 PM CST
I just remember that the haters watch shit all the time
by lockesbrokenleg
They like Blade and Army of Darkness, and they eat up that Dawn of the Dead shit. They're no different.
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all these clueless haters talking shit about avatar just have no clue what cameron is about. he's not just the guy who directed the terminators films and titanic. you look closely at how all his films are constructed, you look at how his scripts are structured, how the action set pieces he designed, if you have some understanding of filmmaking at all, you'll get that cameron is a first class director. only two kinds of geeks would not be hopeful for avatar - the clueless kind, and the envious jealous kind. both kinds are not filmlovers, they're merely geeks with pimples.
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AVAVTAR is not highly stylized nor are it's advances stylized like the Matrix (which I love to death) and he's right.
I think THAT is another thing at play with the haters. They're used to being fed a steady diet of hyper-stylized art direction, costumes,charaters, kinetic pacing , fast editing, black shades, latex and nu-metal soundtracks.
They're dumbed down and jaded. -
Everyone - everyone - from industry analysts to box-office prognosticators to completing studios has been screaming about the poisonous buzz on this movie in levels not seen since the long-ago days of BATMAN AND ROBIN. This thing is looking like a cosmic turkey, and you can see the studios doing damage control item after damage control item. This movie is DOA before it even hits the theaters.
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Then clearly it must be true.
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Um, no. What I wanted was this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0moGWVGhgMBut what I'm being given is this:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MAYrF1PDks
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You're a cosmic turkey.
Happy Thanksgiving. -
Learn to post talkbacks that ain't preachy.
But if you wanna live up to your name as a Messiah, that's the way it goes with you, I guess.
Avatar is a movie we haven't watched. Any prudent person would judge the film only AFTER watching it. Anything other than that is just plain stupid.
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already been proven so wrong with your ignorant and bullshit predictions for months about there being no guns in Avatar, and then when it was obvious there are (even though many told you there were based on the old scriptment) then you came up with your classic that the guns would nt be fired (anyone that has seen any of the trailers believe this?). Thus we can all freely assume you will be wrong again, and look like a complete moron again. In fact if you say its going to fail, almost certainlty the opposite will happen....
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If you come to this website, I'm guessing you're fans of movies, and genre movies at that. If that's the case, why would you want ANY genre movie to fail based on either hype or previews that you've seen? I don't get it. If you see the movie in it's entirety and don't like it, that's one thing, but to actually HOPE the movie fails? Really? Why? Please explain where you're coming from. I'd LOVE to hear it. Yeah the hype has been heavy for awhile, but so what? I don't understand fanboys. I don't understand them AT ALL!! I've always considered myself a fanboy, and to be honest, I think you naysayers are giving it a VERY, VERY bad name!!!!!
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your time with thusspake, he is a conspiracy theorist through and through. And you know how those are, facts be damned! nothing must get in the way of what they want to believe....
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Find ONE non-geek girl (without making it look like you're stalking her, FFS) and ask her if she's even remotely interested in seeing AVATAR. No, wait - I'll answer that question FOR you: NO SHE ISN'T!The studios are SCARED. This movie is TANKING in the "consumer interest" polls and some websites have gone public with the tracking #s saying this is expected to bring maybe $45m in its opening weekend. Think about that one.Furthermore, I've heard some talk of this bringing in teenage girls with the love story. Dude, they've fucked themselves out of getting ANY teenage girls to go see this. You know why? THE NA'AVI ARE HORSE-FACED CAT PEOPLE WITH GIANT FEET AND HUGE MOUTHS! I mean, ask any teenage girl what the most embarassin parts of the human body are, the ugliest traits: they'll tell you horse faces, big teeth, big feet, etc. In other words, they have designed the Na'avi to be the absolute antithesis of what teenage girls think of as pretty. Not to MENTION the fact that Sam Worthington is not now nor has ever been a box-office draw, despite Hollywood's constant attempts to turn him into one movie after movie. NO FUCKING THANK YOU, HOLLYWOOD! WE'VE SAID FOUR OR FIVE TIMES NOW! FIGURE IT OUT! YOU TRIED IT WITH BARRY PEPPER AND LOOK WHERE THAT GOT YOU!Seriously, guys, this is on-track to be the next BATTLEFIELD: EARTH, quite possibly not only a bad film and a bomb but one of the WORST films ever made, a subpar sci-fi magical-ending DANCES WITH WOLVES clone mixed with FERNGULLY with ideas cribbed from DELGO. -wow-. And you wonder why there are naysayers such as myself?But go ahead - keep talking positive about it, just like you were talking positive about WHERE THW WILD THINGS ARE up thorugh its disastrous release that doomed many intelligent kid-frinedly movies from even being made - go check out how many kid-intelligent films got CANNED because of that one. Now thank AVATAR for all the sci-fi and fantasy you WON'T be seeing because movies like this and PANDORUM have failed so vehemently at the box-office. NOBODY LIKES SCI-FI AND FANTASY IN AMERICA. Get it through youtr fuck-thick skulls, dipshits.
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fandom these days that makes me embarressed to be a fan of genre filmamking. I also dont get all this hate and bitterness...
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wrong as useal you arrogant cunt. No-one makes themselves look like a bigger idiot or a sad bitter dork.
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ass and passing it off as fact (your useal bullshit), and just keep digging yourself a deeper hole....
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I say it again and again, and you're incapable of figuring it out. There aren't guns in AVATAR, and when there are guns in AVATAR they won't be fired, and when they are fired the violence will be bloodless. Do you get it now? It's all about a state of mind. What you're going to see in this actionless action picture is an endless series of blurry fights where things get thrown around a lot (notice the 'wrestling match' with the mech and the creature in the ads?). You're going to see a lot of TRANSFORMERS style "action" where things fly around really fast, by "no guns fired / no guns / no blood" what I have been and AM referring to is the tendency for sackless New Hollywood to emasculate EVERY element of a movie. And you can fucking bet James Cameron isn't immune from it, either. "We have notes, James - can you remove the scene where he fires the gun? Wait, how about having the gun jam, or he loses it at the last minute?" This is NOT going to be a movie like the ending of THE WILD BUNCH, which is what a war movie should end like, or the beginning of SAVING PRIVTE RYAN, which is how a war movie should begin. This movie is all about cute little blue furry creatures (who are ugly as my last shit when I was thikning of you) who will fire bows and arrows and "knock down" the bad All-American soldiers. They will retaliate with "energy pulse" weapons that will "knock over" the Na'Avi. It is going to be totally, completely and irredeemably bloodless and actionless. THAT, motherfucker, for the last god damn time, is what "No Weapons of Any Kind" means. It's that moment of fakery when the trailer for ALIEN 3 promises ALIENS ON EARTH and instead we get the line "You mean we have no weapons of any kind?" in a space jail. it's about when the poster for REIGN OF FIRE promises fucking warfare between dragons and Apache helicopters and does not deliver on that even once in the movie for longer than a one-second memory flashback. It refers to THE ROCKETEER when the posters and money shot of the trailer depict the hero holding a gun - by having him pick it up one secon before the money shot and then lose it about 10 seconds later before he ever fires a shot. It's about every line in every movie where you see some dude bristling with weapons and then he has to abandon them all. FUCK!
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It's obvious from all of his interviews that he's still got all of the genius he had when directing classics like Terminator and Aliens. He's just a smart dude and he knows what's up. There's a reason he's never made a bad film, and there's a reason that all of his movies have top-notch action...he gets it. And what's with not giving Cameron credit for Aliens because it was a sequel? The movie is nothing like the original, it's in fact a complete different genre (one he pretty much invented). The script he wrote is structured impeccably, the characters are developed and timeless, the action is tense and frightening, and the additions to the Alien mythology are brilliant. Cameron made Aliens and T1 with rather low budgets, and those are arguably his two best films, so any argument that he's only good with budgets it's idiotic. Plus, with a big budget I'd imagine it's easier to lose control of the story and other important aspects, because you get focused only on making a spectacle. Cameron has never once had that issue, and he's one of the top big budget directors around.
The haters can whine all they want but Avatar is coming and it's gonna seriously blow people away. Despite what they say that we've seen this with Star Wars and LOTR, they are wrong. We've never seen anything like this ever before, and the addition of the 3D brings the madness to unprecedented levels.
The reason people keep getting more and more excited is because with every new still or bit of footage that's released, the movie just looks better and better. Once you think you know what's in store for you, something comes out that completely changes that. Response outside the hater-AICN community has been excellent, so if a couple of lard-ass nerds wanna try to validate themselves by trying to disparage Cameron and his work, they can do so all they want, but they'll never be right, or taken seriously. In the end Cameron won them over anyway, because they'll be seeing the film no matter what. Unless Cameron lost his mind and seriously dropped the ball, this movie is pretty much guaranteed to be awesome, and a breath-taking spectacle. Judging from what we've seen, it looks like he's just as up on his game as ever. -
capable of listening to yourself? Do you have any idea how ri-fucking-diculous you sound? Dude, seriously, take a deep breath, relax, step away from the computer and go outside and get some fresh air before you rant yourself into a coma...And remember...ITS JUST A MOVIE!
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Nov 24, 2009 10:34:24 PM CST
Geif7 - You Want to Understand Why I Want It to Fail?
by thusspakespymunk
I do want AVATAR to fail by this point, if only because so many fanboys have deluded themselves into thinking it's going to do well. Here's the thing, Geif7 - I honestly believe that pure, hard sci-fi and fantasy and action and horror are dead to Hollywood. I think that all masculine, hard-edged movies - the DIE HARDs, the RED DAWNs, etc. - have been butchered to pieces by the soulless pussification of the general American public. And I think movies like AVATAR only feed that kind of bullshit, with their wussy feel-good eco-liberalism and anti-American standpoint. I think that nowhere is this more obvious than in kid movies - where in E.T. you've got people trying to go back and remove the guns and replace them with Walkie-talkies because the kids can't handle it. Well, fuck that. So, yeah, when I see a movie that clearly is not going to be ANYTHING like ALIENS, TERMINATOR, etc. being sold to people as if it IS going to be like that - when it's clearly not - there's a lie there that needs exposing. Just stop for a minute and think of the scenes/lines from TERMINATOR or ALIENS. The self-robot-surgery. "Eat this!" *kablam* The "I'll be back" police station scene. The ALIENS finale with the Queen getting the shit kicked out of her by power loader Ripley. Do you really think ANYTHING like that is going to be in PG-13 AVATAR? FUCK NO. It's going to be PG-13 for fucking LANGUAGE, but the violence level is going to be childish. it's going to feature bows and arrows and people 'falling' into the mist and robots wrestling dinosaurs. it's not going to be HARDCORE in the slightest, and I despise genre fans who are suddenly OK with this weak sauce because it's all they can get. Grief, it all came about to me, the crowning point, when I read an article about how John Peters read the script for SANDMAN, the Neil Gaiman character, and wrote on it that it would be great but only if Sandman got into a lot of fight fights and there was a giant mechanical spider at the end. And when he also said Superman shouldn't be allowed to fly because it's too "faggy" 9his words, not mine). So, I want these half-way genre pieces of shit to fail so that the studios will abandon the properties, stop making these horrible movies, and then independent filmmakers and distributors can start making them instead, and actually make them as intelligent and hardcore as they need to be to be good.Plus, I hate Hollywood co-opting geekdom, but I hate more geeks who think they're relvant or significant to the studios, which is the kind of bullshit illusion fans get when they see a movie like AVATAR gets made. Once this one tanks, the reality that Hollywood HATES genre fans, fanboys etc. and thinks of them as the worst people on the planet will be closer to the surface. So, truth is all.
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out how ridiculous the claim that hes only good with a buget is. And lets not forget how awsome Xenogenisis is, that is a damn impressive student film imho...
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Sam Worthington didn't work in that, either.
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you guys. I think the fact alone that its not based on any books, video games, comics etc...and it is nt a reboot/prequal etc..is why so many fanboys are having trouble computing. And as you say, Cameron is, like all the greats, one step ahead, so many just dont realize yet what happening here, or they are in a state of denial about it *cough*thusspake*cough*...But I believe imho that this is the very thing that will make it a big hit with everyone else. I think that people are kind of sick of all the adaptations/remakes/reboots and actually crave some new stuff ala District 9 or Paranormal. And as you guys say its been a long time since someone created a new huge sci-fi universe from the ground up.....
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First of all, your a complete idiot. You contradict yourself 3 times in the same sentence.
"There aren't guns in AVATAR, and when there are guns in AVATAR they won't be fired, and when they are fired the violence will be bloodless."
Ok, so there aren't guns in the movie. But wait, there are guns, but they won't be fired. Oh but wait, they will be fired, just no blood. My god your an idiot.
Trust that there will be plenty of guns going off throughout this movie, and plenty of characters will bleed and die. Anything with half a brain can tell that. Cameron is not shying away from intense war action (as indicated in the MPAA rating). You can bet on that. Just because he's not flooding his movie with gore and intestines doesn't mean it won't be violent.
You can watch the Human Hardware featurette and see them discuss individual guns and weapon ships of Avatar. You also can hear about the AMP suits which are basically big robots with huge...wait for it.. guns! Cameron has already said himself the Na'vi cannot defend themselves against human weaponry and get wiped out like crazy.
Cameron is not a bitch...he knows how to make his movie violent and intense without going overboard. Since when does blood and guts equal a good movie? This IS a war movie, but it's not Vietnam, it's sci-fi /fantasy on a distant Planet. It's obviously not going to be Saving Private Ryan, but it doesn't need to be. The violence will be presented the exact way it should. You also have to keep in mind that any movie with a budget this big has a lot at stake, and cannot be rated R. Knowing that, there's no reason to complain because it will always be that way, and still your gonna get the hardest PG-13 you can. You'll see soon enough. -
you know how the saying goes... empty vessel make the most noise.
i think someone just doesnt get enough love at home, or doesnt find enough success in real life that he's envious of anyone highly successful, such as cameron. or maybe i'm just specualting too much and this is just the standard case of a geek with too much free time and lousy taste in films. -
People aren't going to see a movie about flamin'-arsed 10ft tall blue ballerina cats. They simply won't. Go to a Wal-Mart. Walk around. Are those people going to see a movie like I just described? Do they have an eye for good special effects? No. Fuck no. They do NOT.
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The thing I said about "there won't be ... and if there are ... and if there are ..." was meant to suggest that at any given point the movie is going to be LESS than what it could be. In other words, where they can avoid shooting a gun to kill someone, they will in the story (with some BS reason, usually: "We can't fire here! It's too close to the Bombastium!"). When they can't avoid shooting the gun, they'll avoid the killing part. When they can avoid the presence of a gun outright, they will. Do you get it now? It's going to take the pussy route every single time. "My gun - it's ... JAMMED, SUDDENLY! WE CAN'T FIRE!" Otherwise, the story of tribals versus gatlings would have only one conclusion.
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well said. logic is all you need when dealing with these trolls. they have none though, so i doubt your effort would do much against them.
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mkaes you realize how meticulous Cameron is and how he really tries to push fx and what can be done. Anyone wanting a good read, go check it out at wired.com Some really interesting and informative stuff about the tech used to make Avatar.....
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Cameron could've made it 'R.' Cut out the CGI, cut out the 3D gimmick nonsense shit, make the budget reasonable, make it R and show it as it could be under R. But that's not the pussy-Studio way and threfore it's not Cameron's way now either. He's drinking the Kool-Aid.
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logic....
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Stop talking about the movie like you've seen it. Everything you say is well and good, but then we remember that you haven't actually seen the movie so everything you say is completely and utterly useless and invalid. Why don't you watch the movie before you act like you know every little detail about it...then maybe your criticisms could be taken seriously.
I mean what kind of film fan are you? You want one of the few original sci-fi pictures by a proven director to fail, just because people are excited for it? What?? Please somebody explain the logic in that to me...You are a prime example of the sad state of moviegoers in this day and age...contributing to the demise of big budget original cinema which strives to be more then average. We finally have f film that strives to be an unique experience one can only experience in a theater...something that's been missing all decade.
It's obvious Jim Cameron is not a sellout, and this is the movie he's wanted to make his whole life. The amount of time and excruciating detail put into this movie for your entertainment alone indicates this is not a typical Hollywood cash grab. This is Camerons movie through and through, and if your a fan of any of his movies then there's bound to be something here that you'll like as well...because he's still the same committed visionary he always was. You say your turned off by the preachy story...did you feel the same about District 9 which was WAY more preachy? Cameron never hits you ever the head with the message, and you can easily ignore it if you want to.
Oh and there is absolutely nothing rated R about the fight at the end between Ripley and The Queen. In fact much of the action in Aliens is at a PG-13 level...it was mainly the swearing and several death scenes that made it R. I guarantee you'll find just as intense if not MORE intense action in Avatar. -
Nov 24, 2009 10:57:41 PM CST
love the fact that all these trolls always claim to be fortune t
by cloudrider`
see into the future they can, even if yoda cannot.
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As each bit of footage slowly comes out I am feeling more and more confident about a solid film and characters.
As for Spymunk...it's too much fun not to watch him dig this colossal hole for himself. His fall will be glorious. -
Pure liberral wankery. I despised every damn minute of it. And the effects were silly, and the limbo-leaning missile-grabbing robot was the nadir. After that moment, I sort of mentally stopped watching it.
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Nov 24, 2009 11:00:41 PM CST
Spymunk, take your medication and get back
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
into bed before the nurse catches you, you ridiculous, spiteful old queen.
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So, what you're saying, is that I should look forward to a scene in which a Na'Avi gets picked up, stabbed through the gut by a giant stinger so he's puking up gallons of blood and spraying blood everywhere, gets torn in half and then thrown on the ground? You really think AVATAR will be like that? Wow. You have WAY more faith in PG-13 than I do.
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guns will not fire, you'll see. film will flop, you'll see. seriously, someone in hollywood should start hiring trolls to see what projects to greenlight and what not to. save some executives from some hearthache that way.
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Yeah, gallons of ANDROID, milk blood. You could get away with that in PG-13 quite easily. In fact, Cameron was talking about Battle Angel and how it was going to be PG-13, even though there was 'lots of blood, but it's all blue' in the cyborg battles.
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The marines in Avatar use artillery, not 'energy balls' or whatever the fuck nonsense you were blathering about above. See the weapons featurette; note the Na'vi getting massacred in a complete genocide, torched and blown up by a napalm airstrike?
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Nov 24, 2009 11:09:40 PM CST
the movie will be super predictable
by beyondthunderdome2girls1cupbillcosby
the blue dudes faces don't look as may have been imagined, and the space marines look a little too cartoonish, the wheel chair thing is a little cornish and i feel michelle rodriguez plays the same part in most movies , still i'm down to see it cause it's fucking 3D space shit with exciting new species, worlds and tech. George Lucas tried to make worlds like this in Revenge Of The Sith, with the riding on flying draons and giant mushroom fields but failed for making those scenes to short and sparse to be really appreciated, i hope this film surprises me with a great flowing story line , clever details, characters i can relate too and some exciting action.
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Trolls always want to look cool, or provoke people, and don't want to belittle their position. I'm sincere in my concerns, and I have no criticism or quarrel with people in general here.That said, in order to level the field and prove I'm not just trolling, I will admit that I, myself, personally, find the Na'Avi beautiful ... and fiercely attractive, to boot.
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I don't know this weapons featurette. Do you have a link?
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may actually know what the hell you are talking about....
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characteristics:
like to provoke by making stupid comments - check
talking without thinking/researching - check
but now i think the troll is tired and wants to be human. aaawww... so touching. -
Human Tech of Avatar featurettehttp://www.aintitcool.com/node/43140
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no hope for some people imho. D9, Moon, Trek and now Avatar are the good genre films we are getting to wash away the stink of T4 and TF2...
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But guess what he absolutely loves - New Moon. The dude was pimping that movie hard over in the Twilight threads, all the while drooling over the lead male actors (not that there's anything wrong with being gay).
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stop looking at everything through an American point of view, and your own personal narrow world view. Remenber that most of the rest of the world was the colonised, so internationally people will love the message of this film and enjoy seeing the colonisers getting their asses kicked. Furthermore, the rest of the world does nt fit into your ridiculous "wal-mart" theory. In many parts of the world sci-fi is huge, as are things like mech armour and fantasy aliens etc...I live in Korea, and I have lived in Japan and China as well, and I can tell you that Avatar will be huge here. Everyone reads comics (there is no stigma with comics as being only for kids, same goes for animation), and sci-fi isnt seen as something weird. Avatar has a lot of anime qualities to it that are fully embraced in this part of the world. And then consider Africa and South America etc....who all know too well what its like to be invaded by a more technologically advanced people for the purposes of having their natural resources stolen.....
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I will gladly make a gentlemans bet with you that it will kill internationally at the b.o.....
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man to admit you were wrong come December...
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Jake - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qyl2Vt9seM Neytiri - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY_RTaKbSiE Dr. Augustine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4mJUkGVKlI Selfridge - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2kUOrr7zZM Chacon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyeTXZ6NcKk Thanator - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2FAVxbXWRI AMP Suit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzyC_66id_I The Scorpion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM-DR8itsCw
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ok, thats it...fuck off! and fuck you! thusspake....you spouting shit about this film is now so heavy in hypocrisy and bullshit I have no need to pay you any attention any more. I will just skip over your posts from now on....
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... I drooled over Taylor Lautner, not Robert P.
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I don't even know you, and you might be a good guy when you're not ranting about inane shit on the net, BUT...I would seriously pay good money to watch you kill yourself on youtube at this point. Just saying.
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TONS of smoke and fire, no actual shots of anybody getting HIT by anything, no blood, no bodies, no consequences - cartoony G.I. Joe action sequemces where the action blows up boxes and bushes but not anything else
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Nov 24, 2009 11:58:34 PM CST
Avatar won't underperform domestically or internationally
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
First of all, this movie will probably making a kiling in Asia, because it looks like a live action anime which is of course mana from heaven for the Japanese and others. It's also the kind of sci-fi that is accessible to large audiences. All these idiots complaining about the plot being predictable - the reason it is so, is because Cameron studied the lessons of Titanic (and all the sci fi/fantasy movies of the last 10 years) very well. He knows that universal, archetypal stories are the ones that connect and cross cultural boundaries. He also knows that even the most hi-tech films must focus on a character journey and the human heart. He said in a DGA magazine interview that he got that balance right in Titanic, while he felt that in films like The Abyss that he put too much emphasis on the tech aspects of the movie, the gritty depiction of submersibles and deep diving stuff he's got a fetish for, rather than focusing on the character parts as a point of entry for the viewer. Now I don't neccessarily agree with this, I think The Abyss was just fine, but I can see where he's coming from. This is all calculated, but in a good way. Avatar will have plenty of detailed minutaie and cool hard science concepts for us geeks, but will be easily relatable to general audiences, too.Secondly, Avatar will make a killing in the US as well, because it WILL attract a large, female audience. There's been a lot of feedback from women - they love Avatar because the fantastical aspects - the colorful creatures and the Na'vi, the fairytale atmosphere - appeal to them (rather than the hard science fiction elements, and the military and hardware, for the males). They also loved Ney'tiri and the love story aspect between her and Jake. Cameron ain't stupid. He knows full well what he's doing, and has made sure Avatar will appeal to as broad a cross-section of viewers as possible, without selling out or compromising his vision in any way.
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The featurette bears out exactly what we've been saying, and what you choose to ignore. And it's only the tip of the iceberg, a few brief flashes of the action compared to the lengthy sequences we'll see in the context of the movie itself. Clearly, Avatar WILL have guns fired and death. If you're expecting graphic 'Wild Bunch' style action then you are a moron, beyond hope. None of Cameron's R-rated movies even had that.
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Nov 25, 2009 12:04:36 AM CST
ThusSpakeSpymunk, I WOULD HAVE LIKED SOME GORE TOO :(
by tehcreepythinman
But you can't make a 200+ million dollar movie with an R-Rating. Sad but true. I said this before but it would have been cool to see someone like Verhoven or even Mel Gibson Direct this as they both have an affinity for blood and guts. Apocalypto was fucking great btw.
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Na'vi are clearly seen to be incinerated in even the short images in that featurette. there's other footage of marines roving with flamethrowers - I bet we might even see the Na'vi warriors set on fire, or shot complete with blood (though the blood won't be red). There are also many graphic deaths inflicted on the soldiers as depicted by arrow wounds, etc. It was certainly so in the treatment. You can even see Quaritch all cut up and bloody. Yep, Avatar will push the PG-13 rating like TDK and the last 2 Bonds.
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I've been a lifelong Horror fan and wanted to be Tom Savini when I was little. So you get where I'm coming from. It just seems, to me, that gigantic battle scene's are a waste if you're not going to show people/Na'vi being blown apart. The one thing about District 9 that I really enjoyed was the fact that it was bloody and brutal.
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He's proven in talkback after talkback that he's nothing but a shrill, reactionary fucktard whose only coherent thoughts are in the form of focused bursts of profanity-laden insults when something deviates from his hardwired myopia.
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THAT'S what you're (pre)judging this film on? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy blood & guts as much as the next guy when it's appropriate and makes sense and is used to good effect, but I don't NEED it to enjoy an action/adventure film. RAIDERS is one of the best adventure films ever, and where's the gore in that? Where's the gore in SEVEN SAMURAI? Where's the gore in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK? Where's the gore in ALIENS (the real human gore, not android blood as pointed out above)? What kind of bloodthirsty fucking savages are you people...Jesus...
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Nov 25, 2009 12:11:29 AM CST
Gore has nothing to do with great action
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
or the intensity and staging of action scenes. Hell, I love some crazy Verhoeven style ultra-violence but it's not always suitable for the tones of certain movies. There was no reason, even if Cameron had a free cap on the rating, for Avatar to be anything other than PG-13. Even the original scriptment was cointainable at PG-13. None of Cameron's movie, even T1 and Aliens, were gorefest, and didn't need to be. Avatar will likely push the pg13 rating to its limit regardless.
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I get you, brother, but you said it yourself...you're a HORROR fan (me too, btw...my favorite genre)...but AVATAR is certainly not a horror film. They can't all be ROBOCOP...
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no wonder the saw and final destination movies keep getting made, and that slashers is a bonafide genre even when jason, krueger, myers are extremely silly and redundant.
i dont what's worse - the herd who flock to a slasher movie, or the herd who flock to a twilight movie. -
Actually, what's frightening is that by and large, the herd who flocks to see a TWILIGHT movie IS the herd who flocks to see a slasher movie/torture porn. We are bringing up a generation of fat, dumb, twisted little motherfuckers.
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Nov 25, 2009 12:30:36 AM CST
cloudrider, I'M CANADIAN AND THERE IS A DIFFERENCE....
by tehcreepythinman
People, mainly my family, always asked me why I loved Horror films. It’s because I love make-up effects and used to obsessively pour over the pages of Fangoria and Gorezone (among others) to learn how they did it. I did the same with the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies but their focus was mostly on motion control, models and minatures. Fun but very *ahem* dry in comparison to the head explosion in Scanners. Now, do I like real life violence? FUCK! NO! But that’s the beauty of cinema. IT’S NOT REAL. I know Cameron’s not a gorehound, I’ve said as much in a previous talkback, but what I would give to see a 200+ million dollar human/alien war film with such violence that Paul Verhoven would start glazing his ham in the theatre.
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and weak. because we work, watch tv and eat fast food. but, ill tell you what. in america, blood and guts are more acceptable than sex. make of it what you will...
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it would be rated pg. the only reason that its pg-13 is because there are guns. i agree that there will probably be very little violence in this movie. because it is for sure aimed at young kids. and selling toys is a big factor.
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That's because of Puritanism. In American media, violence is presented as a normal part of life, while sex and sexuality are presented as sinful, shameful and wrong. And THAT'S why we so craaaazy...
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...I think it's aimed at the same audience as LOTR...which is everyone. "All ages" doesn't have to mean "for the kids".
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I would agree that it’s the same herd mentality that goes to see Twilight and the latest Saw film. I am NOT one of those people. Put it this way; when you are watching a movie like, say, the original Friday the 13th, it sure as fuck ain’t art but the filmmakers did manage to create a movie that had a quality that others of it’s kind didn’t have. This is the reason that we are still watching and talking about F13th after almost 30 years. On the other hand something like Nail Gun Massacre has been more or less forgotten, some would say rightfully so, because the filmmakers displayed none of the, admittedly limited, skills of the people who made Friday the 13th. Now, F13th isn’t even a good example of the slasher genre but, if you really want to get into it, a great slasher film, IMHO, would be something like Black Christmas. Point is; the slasher genre is like any other and there are both good and bad examples of it.
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Starship Troopers showed that it is hard for a hard-R sci-fi/war film to succeed. Granted, it is hard to say if it was the satire or the gore that turned people away.
Avatar will not have an opening like New Moon or TF2, but as Cameron said in the CNN interview, he is aiming for a Titanic-type of word-of-mouth to carry this film through the dead winter months. This film will do fine at the box office even if it opens lite. -
..as soft. They see us a a bunch of stupid, greedy warmongers.
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General audiences, particularly teens and above. Anyone who saw Avatar Day footage knows that the tone is a little more hard-edged and adult than say, the Phantom Menace. As Cameron says - "target audience, 8 - 80"
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Nov 25, 2009 12:47:50 AM CST
Ash_Williams, THAT'S VERY TRUE, IN THE PEOPLE VS. LARRY FLYNT...
by tehcreepythinman
There’s an amazing sequence where Flynt has created an organization called American’s for a Free Press and he’s giving a speech about how America promotes the idea that it’s heroic to spill blood and guts in war while it demonizes sex which is creating a more repressive and violent society. It’s a fucking GREAT movie and a perfect companion piece to Boogie Nights.
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to come and tell us how Avatar hasn't made as much as New Moon in its opening weekend, so it must be a failure. Avatar will have a large opening weekend but not the year's biggest, because it isn't an established property. But it will have legs and great word-of-mouth, just like Titanic.
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I am not saying that all slasher films are bad (or "bad for you"), nor that all the folks who like 'em are fucked up. I happen to like some of them. All I'm saying is that a solid portion of the youtube/myspace/facebook generation is fucking depraved and totally detached from reality. My point is that its odd that the same tweeny-bopper who worships the bland non-sexuality of Twilight gets all aroused by the graphic violence of, say, Hostel. I'm no psychologist, so I don't know what to make of that, but it's fucked up.
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which is why it's so curiously asexual and non-threatening, and why young girls like it. Sexuality is still taboo in America. Half of these bored housewives and precocious tweens who like it are probably conservative christians,acting out their repressed desires. Same story with Disney, and their pimping out of teen pop stars who tease sex while wearing stupid crap like those Jonas Bros cunts with their 'promise ring' gimmick. As the great frank zappa once said, "it's not really sex (on American TV); it's titillation".
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Fucking your eyeballs in a few weeks.Nothing else matters.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3ythpzsu18Back when they knew how to make real movies.
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You raise a good point about the Avatar Day footage, btw. It seems like everyone I encounter here and on other sites who HAS actually seen that footage in 3D on an Imax is EXTREMELY pumped to see the movie. I saw it in Chicago, and I know I am.
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had the scene with the propeller tearing one guy apart. And let's not forget shooting the bad-ass swordsman dead in the street amidst cheers. A REAL MOVIE. AVATAR will be lucky if someone cries out "OUCH!" when they stub their namby blue toes.
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Lol...ok. A melting wax face, wow, incredibly realistic gore there. What was that movie rated again? Don't be so fucking disingenuous...these people are talking about shit with R-rated gore and you know it...
And Cameron does make "real" movies... -
You are such an obvious troll I don't even know why I am engaging you. Go back to getting aggressive with your own genitals over the kid in New Moon...
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Every piece of footage I've seen so far looks totally awesome. So, fuck the naysayers. Fuck'em.
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Nov 25, 2009 1:13:13 AM CST
GeneralJackCosmo, I AGREE, THIS GENERATION IS FUCKED!!!FACT!!!
by tehcreepythinman
Maybe I’m just getting old, 31 btw, but holy fucking shit the kids today are such a brainless lot. I find this shocking as, with the advent of the internet, I expected children and teens to be much more educated and knowledgeable then my generation was. I think our society is becoming more debase, on a broad scale, with each passing year. Look at most of the shit that makes money at the cinema, Twilight and Transformers ROTF. Look at the trash they watch on TV, American Idol and all these reality show scum. Listen to the fucking terrible music they latch onto. When I was in my teens, not that long ago, I was all about Gun’s ‘N’ Rose’s and Nirvana, you know, people who actually KNEW HOW TO CREATE MUSIC!!! Now the obsession is with rap and hip hop which take NO FUCKING TALENT apart from being able to rhyme and twiddle knobs in a studio. Usic used to be about rebellion, now it’s about becoming rich, flying in jets and driving expensive cars which is what every single rap/hiphop video is about. Take a look at these fucking cocksuckers like Paris Hilton, Jon and Kate or Perez Hilton. FAMOUS FOR NOTHING!!! In terms of cinema, I’m horribly disappointed that the internet hasn’t given voice to dozens of new moviemakers that might have been recruited by Hollywood or been able to make their own movies the way that filmmakers were back in the 60’s and 70’s with the creation of lightweight film equipment and the collapse of the studio system. Overall I’m disappointed with the world as it is. Nothing but wars, financial strife and the debasement of our civilization at the hands of our media and government.
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I'm not being a troll. I honestly watched the tech video and saw some missiles fired that hit the ground where Na'Avi were standing and the Na'Avi disappeared, vanished out of sight behind smoke. I didn't see severed arms, flying bodies, sprays of Na'Avi juice, etc. - because the images have been toned down to suit a PG-13 audience. In ALIENS, when the Aliens grab somebody, they scream and their guts drip out as they're lifted into the air and they spit stuff out their mouths and when the aliens get shot half their heads vanish and they shriek like sped-up elephant sound effects. That's war. War isn't "poof, the bodies all vanish." It's not that I want THE VIOELNCE in and of itself. I wouldn't watch HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL and ask where the gore was. But if it's a war movie, I'm wanting to to have ... you know, war.
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watch this in 3-D. Then piss themselves and be put into a drooling coma from the sensory overload.
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I am also 31, and I hear ya on everything you're saying.
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I'm talking about what I'm talking about. Case in point IS the movie RAIDERS - point being RAIDERS and TEMPLE OF DOOM would be fucking 'X' rated now, since they can't show someone stub their toe in a mainstream adventure movie any more.
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In the 80s, you could melt people and throw them into propeller blades and get away with it. Now, you have the main character hold a gun and you've got people walking up behind you like PREDATOR saying "We have notes. Couldn't he be a little less aggressive - and rap a little while being non-threatening? PUT SOME PANTS ON THAT HOG!"
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Well, I've got some bad news for you...and it's a big story, so I hope you're sitting down: the movie business is a...get ready for this...BUSINESS. When a studio is dropping shitloads of cash on a movie, they want to make sure they aren't excluding half of their audience right from the start, because that will seriously decrease their chance of ever making any money off of their film.
Go take a look at the top twnenty highest-grossing movies of all time...then get back to me and tell me how many have an R rating. I'm pretty sure it's only one: THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST.
And never, not once, anywhere, at any point, has Cameron ever called this a war movie, so I don't know why you would expect that.
Not to mention the fact--and I know this is really a small, insignificant point--THAT YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FUCKING MOVIE and everything you're saying is based on assumption. -
I totally second your opinion.Fuck the MTV-ShakyCam-Bayformers crowd.
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It's not like New Moon is some kind of gore-fest either. In fact I thought Vampire flicks usually have a lot of fucking blood. It's kind of the point isn't it? So what exactly the fuck are you talking about. You prefer sparkles???
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Really? Do you actually, literally believe that? Because if you do, you might be mentally retarded. Why is it that the anti-AVATAR crowd is wholly incapable of presenting their point of view without resorting to absurd hyperbole?
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It's got nothing to do with the reality of the films themselves. I first got on the anti-AVATAR bandwagon when I heard Cameron say the CGI was "photo-realistic" (lie). I continued down that road when he said it was a bigger project than the moon landing (lie) I got further on the road when Cameron-fans said this would feature jaw-dropping action sequences that would be more insane and intense than T2 and ALIENS combined (can't possibly - it's PG-13 - so, lie) and when people started saying it was going to change the face of the concept of film for the rest of history (lie, it's at best a passable sci-fi movie). With all the lying going on, I decided to fucking stick my sword in the sand and declare utter hatred for this piece of shit until the fanboys wake up. Now, if Cameron had said 'It's a non-violent ecological fable I worked really hard on and I hope people enjoy the CGI which I've tried to raise the bar on" I would be saying "YEAH! AVATAR!"
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Nov 25, 2009 1:31:56 AM CST
GeneralJackCosmo, 91 WAS A GREAT FUCKING YEAR, WASN'T IT?
by tehcreepythinman
13 years old. Terminator 2! Silence of the Lambs! Gun’s ‘N’ Rose’s Use Your Illusion 1 & 2! Nirvana Nevermind! Nintendo! If I could relive any year, that would be it.
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...because you haven't seen the fucking movie, and by your own admission, you are simply being contrarian. A bunch of people are excited to see it, so you've taken it upon yourself to spout drivel based on no evidence--or worse, blather on about shit that is clearly not true based on the footage that HAS already been released--just to be different? What are you, fucking fifteen?
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and he has the balls to call anything else souless (peter jackson films) or criticize James Cameron films when he likes the most souless, empty film since TF2.....
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Why doesn't that super-cute vampire goofball suck the life outta that cute chick? Hmmm...maybe because it was made for little girls. And I hear you've been championing that piece of shit.
Are you a little girl?
You seem seriously conflicted my man... -
The mid-to-late eighties and early nineties were a fucking golden time for pop culture. Every year, there were more incredible movies, albums, comics and tv shows that I can even wrap my brain around at this point.
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seriously when he likes New Moon....just stop and think about that guys.....he likes New Moon, but he talks smack about Cameron's films???
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I'm trying to open up a reasonable dialogue with you. My point is, I feel that excitement is based on an untrue premise. The movie can't possibly feature more intense, extreme action than ALIENS or T2 because it's fucking PG-13, meaning it's going to be toned-down, tamed, producer-friendly.
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You're trying to open up a reasonable dialogue? You just stated that if TEMPLE OF DOOM came out now it would be rated X. Shut the fuck up.
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... I did enjoy the hell out of NEW MOON. I've posted my reasons in other Talkbacks, and I think they're legit. I didn't find it soulless. I found it sincere. And it does feature, on the gore front, some neck-twisting beheadings, werewolf vs. vampire dismemberment, etc. But I didn't love it BECAUSE of the violence. However, it's a legit vampire movioe and a legit movie, and it's pretty damn good. But then again, if people had been running around saying "NEW MOON IS A BIGGER MOVIE THAN MANKIND'S ACHIEVEMENT LANDING ON THE MOON" I might bitch about it.
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excitement is based on? I don't give a shit about any of the "lies" you're so worked up about. I'm excited that James Cameron has a new movie coming out. I'm excited it's an adventure film inspired by pulp-era sci-fi like Edgar Rice Burroughs' stuff. And, most of all, I'm excited because I have seen 16 minutes of it in Imax 3D and it looks fucking awesome.
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be rated X. Because no studio would ever accept the negative portrayal of India. Nor the dinner scene. Nor the bugs, nor the "Indy holds the breasts of a statue" bit, nor the "kid in danger" of Short Round, nor the HEART-YANK sequence. They'd say "This is great, George and Steven, but we've got notes - do you think maybe instead of a Thugee cult you could make the villains white industrialsts?"
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Do you think AVATAR is a greater achievement of mankind than the moon landing, like James Cameron does?
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have completely betrayed any argument you might have had. If you're gonna pretend you have some standards, you have to follow through on them. Not this pick and choose bullshit. Right now you just seem kinda foolish to me...sorry.
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Cameron isn't looking to provide mmore intense, extreme action than Aliens or T2. Maybe hes trying to bring back the "magic" of films like Wizard Of Oz, Star Wars, even friggen Bambi. I'm glad that there may be something on the horizon getting ready to have the type of impact on the world that ET or TITANIC had. Thats what we need .. and that what kids of today need. Tell me how on this green earth trash like Shrek 2 can become the third highest grosing movie of all time but yet people who put it there think Revenge of The Fallen is trash? Please. Get with the idea that maybe our lust for the shocking, off color, violent bullshit that passes as inspiring entertainment today needs to be reeled in a bit.
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Nov 25, 2009 1:44:11 AM CST
Because it's PG-13 it can't feature intense action?
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
False logic. As has already been explained above, these factors are nothing to do with graphic violence or rating. Avatar is going to have epic battles on a scale and intensity never seen in Cameron's previous films. Cameron described it as 'truly gonzo' or something or other. Also, Temple of Doom would NOT get an X. You do know that Spielberg actually toned down the exploding heads in Raiders by obscuring them with fire elements, in order to avoid an R?
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TOD would not be rated X...there are rated R films that come out every month that have shit far worse than any of that. The portrayal of India? Kids in danger? Motherfucker, have you seen SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE? And you show me, IN CONTEXT, where Cameron says that about AVATAR being a "greater achievement" than the moon landing. You post the link to that article.
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Nov 25, 2009 1:46:21 AM CST
Wait a minute, I actually didn't comprehend at first
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
- an X? You think Doom would be equal to today's NC-17? You truly are out of your tiny mind.
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Nov 25, 2009 1:47:53 AM CST
"Neck-twisting beheadings, werewolf vs. vampire dismemberment, e
by theumpirestrokesbach
For little girls. Sorry, but it's true.
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Yes - I do. Because even then the pussification had begun.
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Becasue that's what he is. No one could be this stupid in reality. He is either a troll or clinically insane. Either way, total waste of time.
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How's your pussy feeling? That Edward sure is a cutie...GTFO
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Nov 25, 2009 1:50:35 AM CST
Cameron did make an analogy to the moon landing
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
But he was being tongue-in-cheek --you actually think he thought Avatar was literally a greater achievement than the moon landing? Hmmm, in Spymunk's eyes, Cameron has commited the faux-pas of undermining the mighty ol'US of A's achievements. This offends Spymunks ultra-right wing sensibilities. Gawd bless us all!!
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In that interview Cameron comes accross like a true professional, like someone who takes his job and his craft seriously. I don't know how anyone who has any interrest in having the movie business as a whole succeed as something MORE than a buisness could not be rooting for this project. If even a 100th of Camerons expertise and creative vision would have been involved with flicks like G.I.Joe, and Transformers ROTF, they would have been the movies their original inspirational material deserved them to be.
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What I was trying to say was that no studio would ever give an MPAA approved rating to a major release if it contained all those elements, so it would get an X for not making white people the bad guy, let alone anything else in it. Did you guys see the recent FLASH GORDON? They made Ming ... white. Did you read the new script for the JOHNNY QUEST movie? Dr Sin has been replaced by .... evil white industrialists. Have you seen ... oh, any major movie in the last 20 years from Hollywood? Can't have a Thuggee cult. That's racially insensitive - so - X.
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This from a fan of NEW MOON. I LOVE it!!!
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No, it doesn't offend any "right wing" sensibilities of mine. It makes Cameron seem like an arrogant prig undeservedly.
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Well, I am autistic, and sometimes I can't tell when someone isn't being literal. It seemed to me Cameron was saying his achievement to upscale movies was a bigger and more important undertaking than man going to the moon. And that made me oppose his movie, among other things.
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Nov 25, 2009 1:54:44 AM CST
Yes, if he was actually being serious...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
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Nov 25, 2009 1:55:22 AM CST
ThusSpakeSpymunk, GIVE IT A FUCKING REST ALREADY.....
by tehcreepythinman
You’ve got a hate boner for Avatar, good for you, now would you kindly FUCK OFF so that we can discuss the movie. I’ve been going back and forth on the flick. Hated the first trailer. Loved the second. Hated the chase scene and “that’s right bitch”. Loved the Human Tech of Avatar featurette. Hated the clips of dialogue I saw such as “eat your eye like jubjub beads”, “not in Kansas anymore”, “are you out of your jarhead mind” and “you crossed the line”. But these new featurette’s have given me a state of calm about the movie and I have no doubt now, based on the extra footage that I’ve seen in said featurettes, that Avatar will be anything less than spectacular. At the very least it will be a visually stunning Sci-fi action/adventure movie and although it may not break any new narrative ground, I trust that Cameron knows what he’s doing.
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and was just making a comparison in filmmaking terms - relatively speaking. Even Cameron isn't that full of himself.
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I concur with your expectation. I'll add that I am tickled to death that something like this will blow the minds of kids even more so than it can possibly blow ours.
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Do you think so? Really?
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if too many people do not catch the "small" details he talks about in the motion capture and recognize what it took to achieve them ... then we may never see anything like it again and the best we are going to get from here is what Zemeckis is doing with Christmas Carol and the like.
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You hit the nail on the head right there. I can think back to when I first saw JEDI in the theatre (I didn't see A NEW HOPE in the theatre until the re-release and was too young to remember seeing EMPIRE for the first time, although I know my parents took me), and JURASSIC PARK, and BACK TO THE FUTURE and GHOSTBUSTERS...seeing a movie like that at a young age is so magical. I envy the kids who got to see LOTR through the eyes of a child...and now AVATAR...
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Hey man, I'm kinda curious. How do you account for the fact that those vampires fucking SPARKLE? That wouldn't have anything to do with marketing it to little girls would it? Now, you're dogging on this because YOU have placed some ultra-violent expectations onto it, knowing damn well it was never meant to be like that. All so's you can have an opinion. Grasping at straws brother....
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The vampires in TWILIGHT sparkle because, in Meyer's vision of the vampire mythology, the vampire is merely a super-predator, designed so that every single facet of it would draw in primitive man: voice, scent, appearance, movement, everything ... like the way carnivorous flowers secrete chemicals to attract insects. The sparkling light is meant on a primitive level to draw in primitive humans so the vampire can more easily catch and kill the weak-willed and stupid.
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For Little Girls.
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Thank you for talking to me. I was hurt by some of the really vicious comments, but I was not trolling. I honestly wanted to discuss the movie, and I feel some people made some valid points I will think about tomorrow when I wake up.
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I was six when A New Hope came out. I remember going with my parents and I remember clapping and cheering, but I dont remember much else about the experience. I saw Empire at a drive-in and cold remember some of it. ET came out when I was 11 and it basicly changed my life. From that point on I was a movie fan. Wanted to be a director. My first LP record was John Willaims score. Years later I took my kids to the 20th of ET. They were not impressed. They didnt think the original Star Wars trilogy was better than the prequels. They thought LOTR and King Kong were too long. About the only thing that seems to truly "enchant" all ages these days is PIXAR. Perhaps AVATAR will do it.
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Shame on Mayer's for having a vision that different. Seriously. She should have known there would be backlash. Kind of like rebooting STAR TREK, making it not a remake but actually part of the original canon .. and NOT have Shatner involved. Despite how great the new trek is ... lack of Shatner will always hang over it. Would not have been a problem if there was no Nimoy as well. But there was. And so now Vampires can pose in pictures, are not affected by crosses .. and glow in the sun instead of burning. Oh yes ... and when a small robot wants your favor ... he will hump your leg.
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Nov 25, 2009 2:21:39 AM CST
ThusSpakeSpymunk, I DON'T THINK YOU'RE BEING FAIR WITH AVATAR...
by tehcreepythinman
Whenever a movie like this is made the Director and everyone involved always talks big about how revolutionary their movie is. It’s kinda like how exploitation films always told you how violent and sexual their movies were in the trailers and posters. You’ve got to get out there and SELL SELL SELL these motherfuckers and the louder you are the more people are going to hear about it. I find it amazing that Cameron held off on publizing it as long as he did, I mean, we didn’t even get the first trailer until September, four months before the movie (a 200 + million dollar movie) was going to premiere. Most movies, these days, start their publicity campaign at least six months to a year before it comes out. I remember the first Men in Black trailer showing with Independence Day a full year before the movie even came out. You’re hate for Avatar is just getting really tiresome. Do you think that what you have to say really matters on this site? Nothing we say has any impact on movies like Avatar, Twilight or Transformers ROTF. We’re just geeks and nerd talking shit because it’s fun and I myself have engaged on some epic flamewars against various movies that I deem fit like Twilight and Transformers but I don’t do it for no reason. I rail against those movies because I find them aesthetically unappealing while I know that the people behind them are a bunch of talentless morons with no vision and who couldn’t give a fuck about making something of quality that lasts. For the people making those movies it’s all just a money making scheme to sucker the morons of our society, of which there are many, into watching mindless trash that they will most likely forget by the time they get to the car or their bus. On the other hand, James Cameron has made a few films that are some of the best of their kind such as The Terminator, Aliens, Terminator 2 and although I might find his other films (The Abyss, True Lies, Titanic) somewhat lacking, the fact is that they are still very enjoyable and made with enough care and attention that I can’t simply dismiss them as simplistic entertainment like that of Twilight and Transformers. Furthermore, in the CNN interview, I don’t see any hint of the type of arrogance that deserves the sort of endless hate mongering that you and Devin Faraci have engaged in against Cameron and Avatar. The makers of Twilight and Transformers deserve hate because they make their movies with contempt for the audiences intelligence and although Cameron’s films couldn’t be compared to movies such as 2001, unlike Spielberg and Lucas, Cameron has a passion for making large scale action epics and he never phones it in the way they have with The Prequel Trilogy and Indy 4 not to mention most of Spielberg’s action films of the last 20 years or so.
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there's no fucking way half the shit in that movie would make it to the screen nowadays. You guys saying a lot of PG-13 movies feature shit far worse... which ones? Maybe fart and dick jokes, but not the kind of violence and 'racial insensitivity' in TOD. As fucked up as Lucas is, he's right when he says the violence in the movie is FINE for kids. It's a pulpy, serial adventure... should the characters never be in any real danger? When that heart gets ripped out, you know this dude Mola Ram is one seriously sick motherfucker. I got that when I was, oh, 7 , and saw it on initial release. But come on... today, movies going for the same market as TOD have to be like Transformers 2, where the humor and violence is so debased and LCD that you couldn't possibly confuse it with reality, or they have to be, for lack of a better word, pussified... this is usually done when the movie contains ANY KIND OF SINCERITY ABOUT TELLING A STORY AND HAS DECENT ACTING, but contains a violent action adventure premise that might entertain teenage boys. I was on the fence about Avatar, now I'm with the movie and can't wait to see it, so I don't get the absolute hate. I had genuine reservations based upon what I saw, but I have a feeling this is gonna be one of those 'the filmmaker is ahead of the curve (credit to Walter Murch)' type films. However, I just wanted to jump in and say that Temple of Doom wouldn't be rated X... the stuff would either be cut or the film would never be made in the first place.
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Nov 25, 2009 2:27:23 AM CST
JEDI WAS THE FIRST MOVIE I REMEMBER SEEING AT THE THEATRE BUT...
by tehcreepythinman
Gremlins, my second moviegoing experience, had a much bigger impact on me.
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anyone else love Raw Nerve? It's the best interview show on television now. Shatner, like Oprah, is a big enough celebrity that him doing interviews makes sense. I'm not a fan of Oprah, but she can ask questions of celebrities like Tom Cruise that would make him glower and get annoyed and, oh, I don't know, call someone 'glib'. Same with the Shat... he can ask whatever the fuck he wants and you either answer or stay off his fucking show. And Charlie Rose has seriously declined in the last five years so... Raw Nerve. Watch it.
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shit like the SAW and HOSTEL movies are not rated X today? And you somone is in a frenzy about a PG-13 movie with some cult crazies pulling hearts out of chests? Huh?
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filled with baseless and misinformed/misunderstood opinions you attempted to masquerade as fact. And you say you're hurt by vicious comments? I'm kinda hurt by your insistence on trashing AVATAR for no valid reason at all except maybe so's you could spew some more of that spurious mind-vomit onto this talkback. Now you're acting all butt-hurt because you quite purposely farted in a crowded elevator and people looked at you funny?
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SKY229 - You don't think that Scarlett in G.I.Joe beheading a guy with a crossbow or Zartan shoving a sword through a womans chest in PG-13 Rated G.I.Joe ... or a monster called Grendel chowing down on men or his mother a naked Angelina Jolie skinning them alive in Beowulf (in 3D no less) is more violent then Temple of Doom? Really? And as far as fart and dick jokes go .... they can lead to DUIs and teen prenancy far more than a little chanting and pulling of hearts from chests can.
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What is going to be in AVATAR that makes the headlines is the inevitable "sex" scene with these blue animal like creatures. Heck ... there might even be a scene where the 10 foot blue chick meets up with the real human and guess what ... STILL likes him. It wont be graphic beyond what is allowed in PG-13 ... but may be more relistic and graphic than ever seen involving "aliens". THIS will be the selling point and the word of mouth. Mark my words. I guess its possible Cameron plays it safe and does not include this. But the death of DeCraprio at the end of Titanic would not have had the impact it did without the sex and the naked painting scene.
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"Legitimate concerns…" my anus, that's pure bollocks or Jim Bean talking, or both.Funny that "gore" is a measure for a films worth to this troll. I guess "Cannibal Holocaust" is worthy of being lionized because of the muskrat scene. Pure idiocy.I was enamored of make-up effects when I was a youth and wanted to be Rob Bottin ("The Howling" was my bible until "The Thing" came out), but I didn't care about story as much. The fact that "The Thing" was pure brilliance etched in celluloid, was a plus. I watched everything 'forbidden' (remember the 'video nasties' debate?) and LOVEED "The Terminator". Was "The Terminator" gory? Um, no. It was a pure down and dirty SF/Action film. Besides the eye extraction scene, which wasn't gory, it had style and energy worth more than most films that came out in '84 including "Dune" and "2010".The fascination with blood and guts doesn't give a film more 'accuracy' or 'brilliance' nor does it bring more truth to the telling. Look at the climax of "Ran"— Kurosawa has a vicious decapitation but, it's off screen but the wall is COVERED in blood. The scene wouldn't have been more powerful if we saw the head bouncing nor the sinews or veins spastically flailing around like seaweed in a rough undertow.ThusSpake seriously, I think you might spend your time studying themes and subtext in movies than hurling insults at them for their apparent lack of viscera.
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Nov 25, 2009 2:51:55 AM CST
Todaysfate, I HAVE A THEORY ABOUT THE SAW SERIES GETTING AN R...
by tehcreepythinman
The MPAA is controlled, basically, by bible thumping conservatives. These same people support George W. Bush and his “War on Terror”. They also support the use of torture on people from the middle-east because they see Christianity in a Holy War verses Muslims. So they allow movies like Saw get away with ultraviolent torture because it desensitizes the public to the atrocities committed, under orders by the Bush Administration, in Abu Ghraib. What proof do I have? After Bushco. admitted that not only did they know of these “enhanced interrogation techniques”, but actually gave the orders to use them, did you see a million people march on Washington, storm the White House and publicly execute George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld for War Crimes? It’s just a theory.
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Nov 25, 2009 2:54:58 AM CST
Also, the infamous 'ear cutting' scene in "Reservoir Dogs"
by blakindigo
was OFFSCREEN. Proved much more effective as Tarantino himself has been quoted as saying (in "Fangoria" of all places). Please come with better arguments than this useless paean to gore. That's just childish and it's lazy filmmaking.
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Here is the thing. This talk about whether or not TOD would make it too the screen today is mute ... because guess what? It's made it to the SMALL SCREEN and no-one complains. It's not been edited like when the handguns were taken out of E.T. or when the cutting off of ears was removed from Aladin ... there has not been any sort of disclaimer or apology issued on matters relating to cult worship, the state of India or it's British roots circa the 1930's, it's not be thrown in the closet like Disney did with The Black Cauldron, Song Of The South or Captain EO (all getting released soon by the way). So how THIS has anything at all to do with AVATAR or anything at all for that matter is beyond me. Indiana Jones and The Temple of Doom comes out on blu-ray next year. ... and guess what? ... its rated PG-13.
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The MPAA doesn’t seem to mind gun violence but then that’s probably because they’re probably the type of bible thumping conservatives that just looooooove their 2nd amendment rights. But there is no fucking way that they’d allow QT to show a mans ear being cut off considering that RD was a low budget movie and Miramax had no clout back then. What gets into movies is based on the MPAAs politics. They are also practically owned by the major studio’s which is why Hannibal could show a mans head being opened before a slice of his brain was cut out, cooked, and fed to him while a low budget Horror film showing the same thing would have been given an instant NC-17.
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contradictory behaviour from the MPAA. The amount of gore in that movie is unmatched by any major studio release in the 21st Century. I think Maitland Mcdonagh wrote a brilliant article about the fascinating link between the 'torture policies' condoned by the U.S.A. during the Bush Administration to the 'torture porn' of the current horror genre.This IS NOT an attack on the U.S. by the way, it was an examination of the current trend in horror filmmaking.
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And the PG-13 rating was created specifically because Spieberg and Lucas said NO.
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Nov 25, 2009 3:06:03 AM CST
Tarantino DID shoot the gory version. He MADE the decision
by blakindigo
to use the 'offscreen' version.
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Nov 25, 2009 3:08:53 AM CST
blakindigo, THE RIGHTIES HERE WILL SEE IT AS AN ATTACK, WELL....
by tehcreepythinman
To fucking bad you cocksuckers. The scum that was put into office, by YOU, tortured human beings, not to gather information, but to manufacture false information in an attempt to link 9/11 with Iraq. So eat shit you bible/flag/gun waving fucking cockroaches.
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He did an interview with Brian DePalma, of whom he is a huge fan, and had actually collected clips from interviews that he had done over the years. Knowing the battles that DePalma had with the MPAA over the years with Scarface and whatnot, I think QT chose the path of least resistance by not showing the slicing because he knew he would never get away with it.
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A better question would be asking why the pleasure island scenes and language continue to exist in Pinocchio ... a movie rated G.
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But it has nothing much to do with bible/flag/gun waving. Come to think of it. Waving a gun has nothing much to do with waving a flag, or a bible. Or vice-versa.
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had ratings problems. God knows, "The Streetfighter" and "Return of The Streetfighter" was shown in a rated "X" version in the grindhouse cinema, but also in a butchered "R" version.But, remember how bad the MPAA was in the '80s? Wes Craven's "Deadly Friend" went to the ratings board I believe 11 times! WTF?!
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they just banned stupid shit from movies all together. Then there is no freason to rate the stupid shit.
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They actually had COMMERCIALS for a film rated "NC-17". They would only be shown at night (I remember watching one during "Arsenio"). Sweet geezus where are those films NOW?
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Does the ghost of Jack Valenti want to re-rate "Boogie Nights" NC-17?
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As a teen I seem to remember that I was more than a little disappointed when I finally saw it. I was really expecting some hard-core shit! If AICN had existed back then I would have RAGED!!!
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Poeple thought they were getting something hard core sexy with Eyes Wide Shut too .... but what they got was creepy and boring instead.
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DANCES WITH WOLVES and Bill Kroyer's FERNGULLY THE LAST RAINFOREST. Just wondering.
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I loved EYES WIDE SHUT, but I see where you're coming from. I went on opening night and saw a lot of older couples there (the kids were in American Pie ironically enough). These couples were snuggling before the movie, all loving and sweet. By the time it ended they all looked rather befuddled and totally alienated from each other. It was hilarious! Then again, I was tripping my brains out.
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Wow, did CryMunk actually say that? The same CryMunk who has posted incredibly aggressive and abusive attacks on talkbackers who have had the temerity to disagree with him in the past?
What a disingenuous fucking tool. -
Than that terrible 60 minutes bit.
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our little trolls could of done that 60 minutes piece instead. Would love to have seen Devin or Nerd_Rage or any of these other lunatics get a chance to interview Jim. Now that would make for some fantastic television.
They would totally pee their panties... -
what the hell!? starwars ep one was the far better flim of the 3. yea i get the writing wholes and ankin being to young but as a flim its far superior, better then that pile of shit attack of the clones where everything look so damn fake and just terrible in everyway, just tired of people talkin down to that movie. Avatar conitinues to look better and better with every clip and sound this site gives us and for all of you who acturally comment, "this is great" i rather watch you guys trash or hype Avatar then watch the travesty that is tim burton movies.how could this man still make movies? thats what we should be asking our selfs. Man should not be allowed to make movies hes a set designer at best, oh fuck it you guys suck.AICN thanks for all the Avatar videos i cant believe how long they are..great stuff
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"How do I get out of this chickenshit outfit?"
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blah blah, wait til you see the movie, idiots
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Fucktard alert!
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and contradictiry thusspake is. How the fuck can this idiot talk about pussification and a lack of gore when he champions crap like New Moon? Is this guy really that un-self aware??!!
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on with what you said 91 was the shit man. T2,the Rocketeer,GnR UYI 1 and 2, Nevermind, Metallica's black album, Red hot chilli peppers Blood, suger, sex, magic....Why cant pop culture be so consistently good anymore? Creepythinman, you and I speak the same language. That was an awsome year and an awsome Summer....
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about Avatar as we get closer, its just looking better and better. It really seems like this is something new created by a director one step ahead of the public. And while I love Trek and Star Wars, I think we need some new sci-fi universes....in fact thats one of the really exciting things about Avatar imho, once Cameron establishes this universe, and characters, he can literally anywhere with it. With no set in stone long runnig continuity or any need to do prequals etc..
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Haven't pixar already done 3d grass?
I don't think the grass is a huge selling point. Maybe its just me but 3d blades of grass don't get me super excited. -
I think this may be his Waterworld. 1/2 way decent popcorn-munching scifi flick, but no way in hell worth the money spent on it. Big budget scifi either works as dark brooding (Like Terminator, Abyss, Alien) or lighthearted & cheesy like Star Wars & Star Trek. But Avatar seems to be trying for epic & serious.... with blue characters. Dances with Smurfs really seems to be a good description of it. Hope I'm wrong, because if it fails we'll see a lack of funding on other scifi projects because studio suits will see one big failure as "a sign that people don't like scifi anymore" and we'll be stuck in romantic comedy hell for a few years
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Nov 25, 2009 7:36:44 AM CST
Just watched the 4 min in 1080p on Xbox live,
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
JESUS TITTYFUCKING CHRIST!!!!!! This is going to be fucking awesome. James Cameron has been and always will be the greatest action director of all time.
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my bet is on forbidden planet
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kampt, Jackson, Nolan etc.."rip off" next? Please enlighten me by explainig what director makes films out of a complete vacuum, where no influences from anything they grew up with are evident? Its called influences pal, and everyone from Kubrick on down has "ripped off" someone, or something......get over it.
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Nov 25, 2009 8:15:38 AM CST
THE NEW FREDDY KRUEGER LOOKS FUCKING TERRIBLE!!!FACT!!!
by tehcreepythinman
http://shocktillyoudrop.com/nextraimages/freddy-full-look.jpg
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Nov 25, 2009 8:15:43 AM CST
southafricanguy, that was concise and lucid, unfortunately
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
your responding to an idiot.
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you feel like bitchslapping the trolls with a little logic lol...
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the awsome article at Wired.com? Some really intereseting stuff about Cameron and Avatar there (no spoilers). Makes me respect Cameron even more....Creepythinman, I have been meaning to ask you if you have read the old scriptment? And if so what are your thoughts on what could be done with this universe should Cameron get to make sequals? Personally I think the possiblities are quite exciting....
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a dozen of new videos here:
http://tinyurl.com/ykyvfh7 -
I'm turned off by these clips. Cameron has a lot of goodwill with me also, but I fear he has lost his touch... Aliens and Terminator were incredibly stylish, but it seems too many wrong design decisions were taken in art direction here. The native aliens look... bad. The design is poor, they look like big blue men. I have an urge to look away from them, they feel embarassing to look at. There's no edge to the design, they are almost in bad taste. I also don't care for the other creatures. Flying reptiles have been seen too many times to really excite me. I feel sorry, mostly for what could have been.
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Nov 25, 2009 11:51:52 AM CST
southafricanguy, I HAVEN'T READ THE SCRIPMENT BUT.....
by tehcreepythinman
You can make sequels to almost anything. The question, for me, is whether Avatar warrants a second or third fim. At this point I think it's best to wait until we've seen it before taking any opinion on the matter. 15 days till the critics see it and 23 for the rest of us. I'll check out the Wired article, thanks for the tip :)
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These new interviews are great. My favourite new Cameron quote: "You don't know fuck."
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I would pay good money to watch ThusSpakeSpymunk kill himself on youtube. Is that fucked up? I dunno...
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Nov 25, 2009 12:34:51 PM CST
JUST FINISHED READING THE WIRED ARTICLE ON CAMERON…..
by tehcreepythinman
I’ve always liked the cut of his jib and I do remember how he was savaged over Titanic, so it was pretty sweet when it became the biggest hit of all time and was a nice big FUCK YOU to the naysayers. He’s also Canadian, as am I, so I think it’s a nice notch for us that he made the most successful movie ever made. It’s kinda like how I root for Peter North, another fellow Canuck, every time he shoots his load on some sluts face. With Titanic, Cameron blasted his wad on the visage of every asswipe who ever put him down. My one concern is this push for 3D cinema. I’ve always considered 3D to be an unnecessary gimmick. I saw Ghosts of the Abyss and I have to say that I was impressed but the question is whether 3D will enhance the experience of seeing Avatar or become a distraction. You have to remember that, rather then just making better movies, Hollywood is always taking a backasswards approach towards getting more people into the cinema. For a big ass Sci-fi Action/Adventure, like Avatar, it might be great but what I’d like to know is if it would contribute to a movie like The Wrestler which was a small scale character drama although the prospect of having Marisa Tomei’s tits appear to wave in my face might convince me that 3D is a worthwhile gambit. My other concern over 3D is that, in order to see it at a theatre, it’s much more expensive for the cinema going public who might not be willing to fork over even more money just for the novelty. When you factor in how much tickets would cost, plus snacks, travel and parking, it adds up and a lot of people might not be soo eager to spend that much money, especially given the current economic climate. Cameron has always seemed a bit ambivalent towards money, the escalating budgets of his films is proof of that, but I worry that he might be out of touch with the cinema going pubic.
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An autistic, right-wing homosexual gore-hound who just wants to see shirtless teenage boys and people's intestines. Is that so wrong?
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i've said it and i'll say it again. film is a medium that will always strive to imitate life. after color and sound, perception of depth is defenitely the next evolution. we, after all, see our world in 3d. if you're saying 3d is a gimmick since it might not add any substance to a film like the wrestler, then you might as well say color is a gimmick since citizen kane did just fine without it, ditto chaplin's city light without sound.
for every auteur there are dozens of hacks and wannabes, so naturally you can bet your ass there'll be useless films that'll use 3d just for the hell of it, but just because some hacks cant make good movies doesnt mean the tech is useless.
as for ticket price, if people can buy expensive snacks from the concession stand, they sure can afford 3d ticket price. personally, i will never understand people who feel like they have to snack when watching a film in a theater. i mean, how long is a movie? is it so hard not to have something in your mouth for 2-3 hours top?? between paying more for munching and paying more for an enhanced 3d experience, it's just an easy choice for me. when i want to watch a movie i'll go to a theater, if i want to snack i'll go to my kitchen. -
That when people say this will fail, they're called idiots trying to predict the future, and when people say this will be eyball-raping and the biggest thing ever, they're considered right? THe fact is, nobody knows how this will be received. I think it will do well but not spectacularly, and in a way I hope ti doesn't, because I think 3d is a stupid fad and I want it to go away (yes I wear glasses). Plus, you have to admit that the guy makes grandiose claims- "from now on they'll have to call it emotion capture"; "there will be a pre and post Avatar period when they talk about movies." The guy has a colossal ego, and frankly, it's annoyi8ng.
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In 1997, I saw a movie that I thought was the future of cinema. IT was called Boogie Nights. I saw another, LA Confidential, that was almost as good. Now, I don't know whether Boogie Nights would have ever had a chance at mass appeal, but we'll never know for sure because JC came with his bloated epic whic, when stripped of its FX, is little deeper than a Hallmark Hall Of Fame story, and all of a sudden everybody, not just mainstream movie fans, are drooling over this. Not to mention they're quoting his dialogue as if he was Ben Hecht resurrected. Don't get me wrong - as you can guess by nick I like sci fi adventure. However, let me put it this way: in 1996, the English Patient beat Fargo for best picture, and I sure azs hell know which one I would rather watch (no offense to Minghella, God rest his soul). And, I'm sorry, but the children of Titanic were the Mcihael Bay extraganzas and crap like Twilight, whether Cameron and his fans like that or not. I just don't want to see the future of movies go up in meaningless spectacle. Plus, the guy's a jerk.
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Spirits Within.
the japs were claiming that their film would be a breakthrough in cgi filming,and we all know how that POS turned out.it almost killed squaresoft.
at least Cameron looks to hold more to his promises.i saw the screen preview here in greece,and even the 3d cinema was not with the best equipment and not imax,the experience was breathtaking.and the rest of the audience was ecstatic after the preview was finished.
i mean the preview was 15min with 4-5 scenes rougly cut and put there,and when it was over,we didnt know how fast the 15min passed and we had a real desire for more.
personally i was enthusiastic with 2 scenes: the bioluminescent forest and the way the camera was rotating in a 180 degrees from Jake's back to his front view,it was like i was inside that forest,that was my impression and the other scene was when the panther animal was chasing Jake and the action was like i was running and looking behind my back at the animal,and it was very thrilling.for one moment i bent my head to avoid a leaf which was thrown at me,while the animal war ripping trees.the immersion was high.
the only scene i was disappointed was where Jake tried to capture and fly his dragon-bird,on top of a cliff over a waterfall.the disappointment had to do with the 3D view of the scene,it didnt feel so much 3d,BUT the photorealism of the cgi in that scene,the way the water of the waterfall and the sunlight on the rocks and the characters,was shown,it was the best thing i have ever seen in cgi on film.it was simply amazing.
so just wait until december 18.as sfx are concerned the film will not disappoint.it remains only for the story,to see how it will unfold.but everyone who has read the original script,has said that the story is superb,i do have the script myself,but i dont dare to read it,i want to let the film surprise myself on the cinema.
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Epic "spectacle" films always have had, and always will have, their place. To deny this is to deny the history of American cinema, plain and simple. I think you and I have discussed this before...you should be thankful for them, because it is big budget epics that have, time and time again, saved the theatre industry, starting with BEN HUR, so that we actually have a place to go and see the smaller, character driven films on a big screen. If every movie was BOOGIE NIGHTS, and LA CONFIDENTIAL, and FARGO (all movies I LOVE, btw), there would literally not be 99% of the theatres in existence and many of us would be FORCED to enjoy those kinds of films at home.
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i was one of the first people who really didnt like Cameron Titanic project from the start.hell i even didnt like Leo as an actor.and when the film was releashed and everyone was talking about it,i was laughing with the sheeps which was eating whatever mass media were trowing at them.for me Titanic was just a stupid movie,supported by the film industry and media to bring the big money.it was a fraud,a hoax,just melodrama,sfx and a typical hollywood story for the stupid average american.I DIDNT fucking wanted to see it,especially when it was 3h long.
but i saw it,because all my friends wanted to see it,so we went together and watched it.i have one thing to answer you.at the end of the movie,i was crying.thats all,and dont tell it to my girlfriend.cheers. -
...I wonder if people said the same thing about sound. And color. And cinemascope. Not saying this will change movies forever like those things did (I wouldn't dare suggest that Cameron might be right about something), just wondering aloud if people tend to thumb their noses at change in general...
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I don't care if the guy thinks he's Jesus Christ as long as he entertains me for a few hours and I don't feel like I've wasted my money.
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I agree that spectacle gets asses in seats, but thyen you can't complain about the Bay or Emmerichs of this world getting huge budgets. Pearl Harbor, for example was Titanic + Saving Private Ryan. I GUARANTEE that some exc pitched it as such. I just don't want to see nothing but spectacle, and I really get annoyed when spectacle for its own sake is pushed as innovation.
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I'm sorry, but Tiantic IS a melodrama. All it needs is for BIlly Zane to have a twirly mustache. And it wasn't that it was monstrously successful that bothered me. It was that it monopolized all discussion about movies at the time. There was a brilliant little movie called the Big Lebowski that came out in February of that year and all people would talk about was that f*cking boat.
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The difference is that color didn't force out all black and white movies (hell, even sound didn't change things overnight), and theyn didnt need those goddamn glasses. And frankly, I've heard people say that future audien es won't even want to look at non 3d movies, which depresed the hell out of me.
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...Bay or Emmerich getting huge budgets UNLESS it's in the context of "I can't believe they gave Bay $200 million to shoot that piece of shit *fill in the blank* but *insert talented filmmaker here* can't get funding for *insert awesome-sounding prohect here*!!! What a crock of shit!!!"...or something along those lines.
And OF COURSE that's how PEARL HARBOR was pitched...Hollywood is a business, and the goal of any business is to make a profit. It sucks, because the product is supposed to be art, but that's just the way it is.
And check the movie release calendar this year, or any year...there are tons of smaller films released every month, both in theatres and on DVD. So to act like somehow epic films are a new thing, or that all of a sudden that is all Hollywood is going to produce...that's just unrealistic and alarmist for no reason. It is the cinematic equivalent of worrying about "death panels". It is a non-issue.
Finally, if you look at the entire production of AVATAR, all the technology that was developed for it from start to finish, the new ways that the filmmmakers came up with to capture images, integrate cgi, utilize 3D, etc., etc., all the tech bullshit that Cameron talks about in the Wired interview and others, and don't see any legitimate innovation...I think you have selective comprehension. -
...in order to keep theatres in business. Period. Same thing with cinemascope, when people decided tv was good enough, and Hollywood needed to figure out a way to give them an experience that they literally could not have at home.
3D is not about replacing 2D, its about keeping the theatre industry alive in the age of downloads, torrents, bootlegs, etc. And that is a FACT. It is about convincing people to get off the couhc and go to the theatre becasue that is the only place they can have this particular type of film experience. It about saving people's businesses and jobs. So relax. -
Nov 25, 2009 2:47:34 PM CST
Plus, it sounds like a lot of your issues with 3D...
by generaljackcosmo
...stem from the fact that you cannot enjoy it becasue of your glasses. Which sucks for you, because I happen to think 3D in the right movie can be pretty fun. But when you go on and on like this, it just sounds like you're the bitter kid who didn't get invited to the party that everyone else in school is excited to go to. I can't carry a tune--I am fucking tone deaf--but I don't get all worked up over people doing karaoke and shit.
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"There was a brilliant little movie called the Big Lebowski that came out in February of that year and all people would talk about was that f*cking boat."
That's JC's fault? He forced eveyone to talk about TITANIC at gun point, and chained himself outside of every theatre showing LEBOWSKI so no one would see it, forcing it to bomb? Sounds like you're mad at the American movie-going public, not James Cameron. After all, we vote for the kinds of movies we want to see with our dollars. Again, it's a business. I promise you that if a movie about a cannibal pedophile came out and made $250 million, there would be ten more cannibal pedophile movies in production within three months. -
The reason I can't stand the man 's ego is because I think the auteur theory is way overrated. The best movies have been collaborations, and they have been open to improvisation and even happy accidents. Cameron sounds like Zemeckis wanting everything to be mocap so he can have maximum control over everything, which is batsh*t insane. ANd I truly believe that the reason the SW prequels were so disappointing was because Lucas wouldn't collaborate with others. As for 3D, maybe 10% is about the glasses. The rest is abuot the claims that no one will even watch movies made before 3D. 100 years of film ignored because it's not in 3D. That's fricking scary. and my piont about Lebowski was not about box office -it was about how because of Titanic people who talk seriously about movies would only talk about that goddamn boat movie. And as for innovations: that's precisely my point. People confuse technical innovation with artistic innovation. In terms of music, Cameron reminds me of someone like Jeff Lynne or the guy from Boston: all the technical innovations in the world can't hide that's it's formulaic stuff.
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Sure, it could. Nothing is certain. But I really think the amount of venom that is being spewed about this movie pre-release, when none of us have actually seen the thing in its entirety, is laughable...and, frankly, pathetic.
If I don't like it, I'll admit it. If it's a let down, I'll be the first one on here bitching about it. But I am not pre-judging a film I have not seen, and I have most definitely not already decided I won't like it because the director is a big, mean alpha-male who takes *gasp!* a tremendous amount of pride in his hard work and subsequent success
Or because I won't get to see the aliens in the movie get brutally killed like something out of ROBOCOP and/or tortured PASSION OF THE CHRIST style.
Or because this movie has themes that we have seen in any number of stories in any number of media in any number or genres before (some would call them "universal" themes)
Or because I don't like the fact that the aliens are blue and look like they share a common ancestor with cats, when my favorite color for an alien is gray, and I think most of them probably share a common ancestor with mice, and, God damn it, Cameron should have made this movie to my specifications. -
Nov 25, 2009 3:12:06 PM CST
I HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM TALK ABOUT ARTISTIC INNOVATION.
by generaljackcosmo
ONLY technological innovation. So what is your point again?
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Nov 25, 2009 3:13:48 PM CST
"The rest is abuot the claims that no one will even watch movies
by generaljackcosmo
Who said that? Certainly not Cameron. You show me one quote, in context, from someone other than a dumbass poster on the internet, where someone says that no one will watch older 2D movies once 3D takes off at the theatre.
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"it was about how because of Titanic people who talk seriously about movies would only talk about that goddamn boat movie"
Please explain to me, one more time, HOW THIS IS JAMES CAMERON'S FAULT. Because I don't get it. He has no control over what people do or do not talk about. His job is to make the fucking movie and then try to get people to see it. Period. It isn't his fault if people ignore other movies and focus on his. He didn't make them do that.
The more you go on and on about this, the more it becomes evident that this animosity is about you, and other people, not James Cameron. -
...if you think the best movies are about improv and happy accidents, you might want to do a little research into the Coen brothers, because they are control freaks who allow NO improvisation. Every "er" and "um", every pause and stutter, it's ALL SCRIPTED according to the actors who have worked with them.
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He takes all of Lucas' and Spielbergs ideas and makes money off it it to fund his Titanic shit.
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You are 100% correct. He should take a vow of poverty and spend the rest of his life making movies that literally no one would ever want to see.
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...must have fucked your mothers in front of you or something...run over your dogs and spit in your face...
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Hey, it's worked for Kevin Smith.
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Because people keep going to see them and they make a shitload of money.
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That was a line from a song in TEAM AMERICA: World Police.
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Although I did see that movie. After all, freedom isn't free: there's a hefty fuckin' fee.
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So now we're ripping off lines from 300?
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Two gulps into a forty, regular as clockwork.
Whoops. Off topic. Maybe they'll make AVATAR malt liquor, though? Ten foot cat probably would need eighty ounces, though...whaddya think? -
Nov 25, 2009 4:34:06 PM CST
For people like wookie1972 and others...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
This is all about them and some personal vendetta agianst Jim Cameron and his 'ego', or whatever else they're projecting onto the man or blaming him for. Rarely seems to be about the movie itself; that's just an excuse. An interesting analogy in musical terms would be people who bash U2 simply because they hate Bono's pomposity, and not judged on the band's music. And it would seem that JC and any others with the balls to stick their heads above the parapet are judged similarly. I don't think Cameron is an egomaniac. I've never seen anything in any footage of him off-set or in interviews to suggest he's anything other than a agreeable, logical, deep thinking person. He just doesn't suffer fools gladly. And I certainly admire his ability to say 'fuck the naysayers' and pursue his vison regardless. Any criticism of Avatar I'm sure he would have anticipated even before he set his ideas to paper, never mind production. But he knows he's ahead of the curve and will have the last laugh. And if not, so be it. Why should he be a shrinking violent to appease others? Nobody will thank you for being a nice guy if you fuck up. Cameron's responsible for this; he's responsible for that, blah blah. Titanic kept 'daring' indie movies from being made? Titanic had NO effect on that whatsoever. It was a one-off; a fluke. Far too finacially risky to replicate again and again. Anyone who goes off on some imagined rant about 'trends' like that clearly has no idea how the industry operates. Titanic was responsible for Twilight? Only by some utterly contrived osmosis. Harry Potter could equally be said to be 'responsible'. Hell, why not just blame Titanic for Hannah Montana - there must be a connection there after all, since teen girls like both. Laughable assertions - and again clouded by personal biterness towards Cameron.Also, just for argument's sake - how exactly was something like Boogie Nights (a good film) the 'future' of cinema? Nothing that Robert Altman hadn't done 20 years before. I guess it must be the pious seal of 'quality' cinema that certain kinds of 'hipster, indie' movies get branded with, and accordingly mass 'pop cinema' like Titanic gets thumbed at. Nobody is denying that Boogie Nights and LA Confidential were good, nay great films (and arguably better than Titanic), but come off it.
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keeps saying they are a geek, doesn't neccessarily make it so. Having said that, great interview.
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I disagree...the man is clearly an egomaniac.
Other than name-dropping Kubrick (no word on whether the old master actually enjoyed TRUE LIES...and there's evidence the old fart/genius was playing Cameron...http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/5.01/ffai_pr.html), he never cites his cinematic inspirations and heroes, let alone the worker bees below him.
Normally, I'd think this guy was a major prick and a total waste of skin...problem is, he has an astounding box office record. Something's right there, definitely...if NO ONE turned up for AVATAR whatsoever, he'd still have be in the black for his output.
Point is, it appears that sometimes an asshole can get the job done where a lesser "moral" character flounders...in the political realm, witness Rahm Emanuel, who makes Karl Rove look like Queen Amidala to his Senator Palpatine...
I'd be shocked if AVATAR isn't a hit...it's firing on all four politically-correct cylinders. People clearly don't want to dwell on the mess of Iraq or Afghanistan...except *in extremis*, which is what AVATAR is all about. As it is, this will be boffo overseas, dwarfing its domestic take (my prediction). Might garner a few Oscars in the process, definitely technical.
This will be interesting to watch. -
inconsistencies and things which took away from the 'realism' of the story,but it was very well-made and highly entertaining.
you see it doesnt fucking matter if a movie has flaws,you can nitpick even the best movie and find things you dont like,BUT if technically and especially artistically is well crafted,then you dont give a fuck.
and when i say artistically,i mean that the movie has a director who has vision and he needs to express something through it and you can understand this by the love he gives to his movie,while he manages to keep the whole movie balanced.and from there you have the scenes which are nicely connected together and tell an interesting story,and they give character exposition,so you can relate to those characters,hate them or love them etc.
and that movie is D9,despite the fact that a lot of things didnt make sense,the movie didnt try to insult my intelligence,regardless if it was about mindless or intellectual fan.it was a movie which succeed at its purpose to tell 'something',to make you,as i say,click something inside you.
if Avatar makes me 'click',despite its flaws (flaws in the cgi or in the story/charactar),then i can forgive it and accept it as something good,something i like.
thats all
now the rest of you,can argue if the cgi is jagged,or not photoreal enough,or it looks like dancing with thundersmurfs,or the dialogue is not Shakespearean enough,or the characters are stereotypical.
but eventually you miss the point,thats not what movies are about.can it give you as an individual person something? something good? whatever that thing is.if so then thats all that it matters. -
THE THING FROM ANOTHER WORLD was from 1951...so...nothing? In fifty years of cinema to choose from?
When the fucking guy has so clearly registered Harlan Ellison's and Poul Anderson's output?
Oh, no, I didn't! ;-p -
it going? I ve spoken to Wookie72 before and he seems like a nice guy, but he is also clearly very bitter. Im sorry but he accuses Cameron of some pretty ridiculous things. As you say, so Cameron is personally responsible for no-one seeing Big Lebowski at the time? Boogie nights was the future of cinema?.....And big epic movies will stop small indie films being made?? Give me a fucking break. The history of both Hollywood and film making in general has always been about the big, risky, ambitious films, and its those films that get people to go to the cinema and watch films. Theres a reason indie art house films dont pack em in and light up the b.o. Without the big spectacles to draw large audiances, there would be no cinema industry as we know it.
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a reason to start going to the cinema again....as cosmos pointed out, its called showBUSINESS....
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That is bullshit. Having audio in a film allows the film to convey extra information that a silent film cannot. Having color in a film allows the film to convey extra information that a black and white film cannot. What extra information does a 3D film offer that a 2D film cannot? Give examples.
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—the actual blocking of the physical space between performer and camera. It can enhance the viewing experience by immersing the audience into the setting, creating staging opportunities that aren't available in 2D where the filmmaker is constantly fighting to bring parallax and depth into a shot. Look at a crane shot—usually there are foreground elements that help give a sense of scale as the camera booms up or down. It helps to "break the plane" helping the viewer to forget the flatness of the screen giving a sense of scale. Foreground and background elements are the most useful indicators of scale and by carefully arranging those elements it greatly enhances how a story is told.As for 3D cinemas possible technical innovations, comparisons shouldn't be with colour or sound but with deep focus photography pioneered by cinematographers like Gregg Toland. "Citizen Kane" and "The Grapes of Wrath" are two films that helped change the visual language of cinema by their technical innovations. If used as a tool and not a gimmick 3D could have the same impact.
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correction.
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3D is unquestionably a gimmick. I have never - never - seen a movie that wasn't made for 3d that wasn't in 3D that I thought "Oh, wow, that would've ROCKED in 3D!" No such film exists, because 3D itself is JUST a gimmick, a tool to try to make money at theaters and protect from piracy. That's all it is. When people inevitably tire from 3D again (I think it's about 3 weeks away, ha ha ha), the process will be relegated back into the broom closet."EMOTION CAPTURE?" "Two periods of film, before and after AVATAR?" he really said those things. Add that to the "Moon Landing" bullplop and you've got an amazing and undeserved ego. "You don't know fuck?" Yes, James - yes, I do. I know I don't want to see a movie with a bunch of ecoterrorists being declared the hero while brave soldiers get butchered in the name of an anti-corporate screed, no matter how hot the blue people are.And as for the description of myself as "right-wing," where the HELL do you get that? Oh, and add "Native American" that list while you're at it. And no, I don't like "teenage boys," as a general concept. I like Taylor Lautner, who is one person. Get it straight in your head, y'dip. :) Seriously, though, you guys are cool. I hope we're not really venturing into personal hostility, because I only feel that toward people who talk about being more significant than the moon landing.
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this is the shit i loathe most. are we lovers of film or tabloid readers? who the fuck cares about the director's or actor's personality???? we dont know shit about these guys in real life, they're not our friends, nor our family, so who the fuck cares how they behave in real life as long they give us great films??? judge the work and ONLY the work. the rest is just tabloid junks.
i thought this kind of thing is the concern of bored housewife. 'oh i'll watch keanu reeves's next film becuase he come across like a decent guy on oprah.' 'tom cruise jumped on oprah's couch, i'll think i'll skip his next film.' morons. i'd rather watch a great film from a director with huge ego, than watch a crapfest from someone humble and nice.
and you're blaming titanic for the spawn of turd movies? yeah? so a good director should not realize his vision because hacks will always make lesser versions of his idea? is that what you're saying? i'm sorry but you are, truly, an idiot.
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i thought the troll was trying to be human that one time. i thought wrong.
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it's just so obvious in any avatar threads that those who are rooting for avatar clearly know something about films and filmmaking, while the haters are just plain ignorant.
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political affiliations and aren't a homogeneous group. Just because someone is a particular race or gender doesn't exclude them from any type of political beliefs. Many of the views you've expressed in these talkbacks are similar to those expressed by many "right wing" pundits. So, don't be surprised if that is a consistent label applied to your views. Back to 3D talk—many 3D films have been gimmicks. But, I've seen Cameron's underwater documentaries and I think the 3D added value to experience. Looking at the "Titanic" in 3D WAS immersive; it was somehow more…intimate, if that's the correct word. It worked (for me at least) by seeming more tangible; I still felt that I was watching a movie, but it was more of an experience.
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And armed with a fresh batch of bullshit. When the fuck did Cameron say anything about 2 periods of film - before and after Avatar? Emotion capture - well, that's justifiable since that's exactly what he achieved. Moon landing - an analogy only, you turkey.You seriously must be autistic, since you seemingly lack the ability to discern how truly ridiculous you sound. Raymond Babbitt, keep on counting those matches...BTW, a Native American who loathes all non-whites...Christ on a bike. Someone is either yanking our chains here, or you actually are clinically nuts.
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Avatar Day footage proved this. The talk of staging is very accurate. I remember in the first scene shon where we see Quartitch giving a briefing, and then Jake, in his wheelchair, rolls in to the meeting room from the back - it very subtly gave a sense that he wasn't quite a part of this group of marines on Pandora, taht he was somehow outside the group and on the fence. Through 3D, many compositions and scenes like these can be given added meaning that informs character and story.
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Probably the most impressive 3D I've seen came recently in the form of CHRISTMAS CAROL. I was amazed by one 3D efffect more than anything else - the snow. When the London streets begin to experience a snowfall toward the beginning of the movie, and we see the snow as if it were all around us, I felt like I was actually a little colder. It tricked my mind into feeling like I was walking through snow, and the effect worked on me. Also, I liked how much of the 3D in CAROL wasn't "thrown at your face" 3D but was instead used to great effect to expand the size of rooms or to give a sense of space. That was very effective use of 3D, but the snow thing really got to me as I felt "brrrrr, cold" when there was no cold to feel just based on my body "seeing" the falling snow. Nice trick.
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Fair enough. I actually don't care much for political parties or views so much as I dislike dishonesty and dislike people who are violent in real life.
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If I was ready to see this before, I'm twice as ready now.
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“Every once in a while, as we are absorbed in some intensely detailed discussion about sub-surface scattering or the way a tail is moving in the animation, I'll just stop and have this moment of clarity, as if seeing it for the first time,” wrote Cameron. “And I realize that's what the lunar astronauts must have felt like. They'd be in the middle of some complex set of procedures and they'd look out the window and go ‘Oh, yeah. That's the frickin' moon!’ It feels like that.”
"must have felt like." "it feels like that". that's what i got when i first read his quote, and that's what i get when i read it again. no one is making a grandiose statement. the guy is a science guy, he served on NASA advisory board, befriends NASA scientists & deep sea explorers, and is an avid explorer/adventurer himself. no doubt he's always imagined what it'd feel like to see the moon up close. to him, the moon analogy must seem like the most natural thing to say. -
"3D is unquestionably a gimmick."
then right in the next post he said:
"I was amazed by one 3D efffect... and the effect worked on me... used to great effect to expand the size of rooms or to give a sense of space. That was very effective use of 3D..."
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which automatically invalidates anything he says) to spew more bullshit. Is he really that fucking stupid that he does nt understand the context within that analogy was used? Apparantly not as he seems determined to keep flogging a long dead horse...
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to see. They ar ent brave soldiers you dumb dipshit, they are mercenaries working for the RDA/Consortium, a huge multi-national corporation. Its meant to basically be the Duth East India Trading Company. But then you are so fucked up and apparantly have monumentally shitty taste in movies, you probably cant compute that, or you think mercenaries working for a corporation to help it exploit and plunder other people's land=brave soldiers....
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Doy! Just because it's unquestionably a gimmick doesn't mean it can't be fun or effective. But to deny it's a gimmick is silly. No contradiction.
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It sounded from what I've raad like this is a future where the military haw been bought out by the corporations so they're all one big entity. Am I misreading?
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I have ever seen. He has been spewing the same bullshit for over a year now. He has been proven wrong so many time now I have lost count. Notice how no matter what he sees from this film he only sees whatever fits with the crap he has been saying for almost a year while conveniantly ignoring everything that completely contradicts his bullshit. Text book selective perception.....
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not soldiers representing any nation per se, they are mercenaries working for SECFOR, the security wing of the RDA/Cosortium which is a huge multi-national corporation that has contracts to exploit the resources on all the planets discovered. Thus its basically the Duth East India Trading Company in space.....Avatar is anti- colonialism and emperialism you nut, its not anti-American.....
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... how are they operating without jurisdiction with incredible amounts of heavy weapons on a hostile alien world? Where is the science team? Where is the American / "one world UN (blech!)" government? Why isn't anyone putting a stop to this "abuse" socially?
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3d might have been used as a gimmick in the past by lousy directors with no vision. but if just ONE director used it effectively to enhance the film and the story, then that justifies 3d's existence. that alone justifies 3d as a valid tool.
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why isnt anyone putting a stop to sierra leone? why isnt anyone putting a stop to the slaughter of indians? of jews? of the people of rwanda? of bosnia? why why why? human sucks, that's why!
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that there are limitations to the type of weaponary they can use, for example they cant use nuclear weapons. There is a science you nut, you see them in the trailer, its the team that Sigourney Weaver is part of. There are also watchdogs but they are corrupt paid off by the RDA (so quite realistic imho..), and well dude, heres the thing, its set more than 100 years in the future, so who knows if a UN still exists?
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the Duth East India Trading company operated in Africa, the Carribbean etc...? Do you actually think they did everything above board? As my good friend cloudrider just pointed out, corruption and human beings go hand in hand. If we cant even stop all the horrible things going on in other countries, how the hell would anyone stop that type of shit going on on another planet?
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future, but maybe its even more useless and ineffective than it is now...
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AVATAR Will Never Be Forgotten, Dix
by ThusSpakeSpymunk Nov 21st, 2009
10:11:38 AM
You have to remember something first before you can forget it, and again and again and again the American public have made the point known that they couldn't give their last fuck for AVATAR. I wouldn't be surprised if AVATAR film fails to break $100m. It's this generations HEAVEN'S GATE, this generation's WATERWORLD, and it is going to tank so hard it's going to make fanboys wet themselves with agony. I can't wait. Watching the geeks on here stumble to come up with explanations other than "Nobody in America likes sci-fi and fantasy" will be hilarious to see. Fuck you all, AVATAR fans. Your day of FAIL is coming soon!
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about how pathetic and desperate the haters/trolls actually are. I cant wait to see if Avatar is successful if they will admit to having been so wrong. We can be sure beyond a doubt that they will not, just change tac and find some other bullshit to flog to dead, while pretending their inane predictions never happened....
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How many times do you need to have explained to you what Cameron meant about the Moon comment before it sinks in? First of all, he never said Avatar was more important than the Moon landings AT ALL. Second of all, what he meant by what he actually said was that he felt like an explorer discovering a new and wondrous world for the first time. it was A FUCKING METAPHOR.
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"And as for the description of myself as "right-wing," where the HELL do you get that?"
Which was immediately preceded by:
"I know I don't want to see a movie with a bunch of ecoterrorists being declared the hero while brave soldiers get butchered in the name of an anti-corporate screed, no matter how hot the blue people are."
...and followed by:
"Where is the American / "one world UN (blech!)" government? Why isn't anyone putting a stop to this "abuse" socially?" -
Nov 25, 2009 11:43:16 PM CST
Wait…people do realize that "Waterworld" made $264 million
by blakindigo
during it's theatrical run, right? It may not be artistically successful but it was a moneymaker for the studio that broke even and did very well on home video.Also, "Heaven's Gate" was nominated for a Golden Palme at the Cannes Film Festival and is highly regarded by many film critics. But, again this is like mixing metaphors. Are we talking about "Avatar" in terms of "film quality" or "box office"? One does not equal the other as "Transformers 2" has proven.
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And TWATLIGHT as well.
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That was not my understanding of the moon landing quote. The quote I read had Cameron saying that the work they were doing developing the movie was "like the moon landing in terms of the work involved" or to that effect, NOT the quote you just read. So either it's a different quote or one is real and one isn't or ... who knows? I'm going off what I read.As for the question of what will happen if AVATAR makes money - well, I'll be utterly shocked, for one thing. I'll feel like I woke up in a parallel universe. But I will fess up to being totally wrong. I was right about SPEED RACER, wrong about TRANSFORMERS, right about WATCHMEN and right about WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE. Ehhhhh, whatever.I don't base my ego on my predictions. But I do think the predictions make for interesting discussion on the state of the world. Movies aren't even really the subject - I'm more interested in talking about types of people and how the American audience will react to this movie (or not).I've said before I've got no real personal stake in being right or wrong. I actually just really think that the AVATAR fanboys who have been saying this movie will rival ALIENS in action and will be more violent than TERMINATOR are deluding themselves, Cameron's ego is deluding himself, the movie will be bloodless and actionless (other than cartoon G.I JOE action) (and as a war movie that's really intolerable).Trust me, if I'm wrong about anything I'll be the first to admit it, because being wrong would give me hope about humanity, and I spend a lot of time feeling hopeless about people.
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—But, I did see "Twilight." I'll admit though, I'm biased. I'm getting a bit tired of the emaciated, pale, shopping-mall-attired vampire fanboy chick/dude. They seem to inhabit that mystical place where middle class American youth can reaffirm the values of mainstream excesses while marginalizing the disenfranchised.Give me something like the original "Hellraiser" that offered a glimpse into the sublime in contrast to this hipster vampire chic that indulges in the ridiculous.
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describe "Avatar." Cameron has described the end battle sequence as a major element. Additionally, the final act in his screenplays have EXTENDED action sequences. Geezus, even in "Titanic," essentially the last 40 mins or so is one extended action scene.
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American audiences will react to movies? Isn't it fascinating to look at how movies transcend cultures? Do you not like films like "La Femme Nikita" or "The Seven Samurai"? Or do you not like how films like "Kill Bill" or "Running Scared" (2006) appeal to an international audience? Can't other countries add to the discussion about the "…state of the world…" as you put it?
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It really comes from being burned so many times. I originally used to get excited about every major big action-film released, being a horror and action film fan. I grew up spoiled, on movies like FIRST BLOOD and COMMANDO. As our society ventured into PC territory I started to notice the films I loved - slasher pictures and vigilante movies and gung-ho soldier movies - started more and more getting emasculated and as I call it pussified by mainstream groups.As a kid, I was also a video game NUT and a D&D fan, right along with the horror, so virtually everything I enjoyed started to come under scrutiny from groups with names like CONCERNED PARENTS AGAINST KIDS HAVING ANY FUN WHATSOEVER. I remember a book called "Trauma on the Toyshelf" or something like that featuring a guy actually writing shit like: "Batman describes himself as a creature of the night, but Man was created in God's image and God is of the light, so therefore Batman is Satanic and must be BANNED!"These groups picketed, marched, yelled, complained, whined ... and I used to laugh at them and their ridiculous silliness.Once, I appeared on a tv show locally where they asked kids to come and talk to the local Concerned Parents Against Any Kind of Fun group, for a local newsmagazine show's half-hour special about the DSNGERS OF EVIL VIDEO GAMES. What was promised to be an open debate was basically done ENTIRELY to the benefit of the afults, with the kids being jeered and snarled-at and yelled at by angry-fsced old people who wouldn't even answer a single question we asked. When I asked the green-lipsticked old short woman who was their mouthpiece why it was OK for violent shows like football to be shown to kids when he felt Saturday morning csrtoons should ALL be BANNED (I shit you not, she wanted to institute a mandatory no-tv policy for kids for Saturday and Sunday to "force" us to go outside - her words), her response was "Let me answer your question by asking you a question ..." a technique she used every time not to answer. When I complained to the host that she was not being fair and never even answered a single question the whole show through, simply asking new questions in place of any kind of answer, the audience of adults jeered and the host said "We didn't criticize your answers, kids, so don't criticize hers." When the show aired, the whole thing was edited so tightly and so carefully that it was clear it had been designed all along to make us all look like idiots - the kids - and make the adults look like very concerned adults who wanted to protect us from anything fun.Well, after that experience, I felt like, well, these poeple may be absolute fucking dirt scum shit, but at least they have no power and nobody listens to them.But then, a funny thing started to happen. SUDDENLY PEOPLE DID LISTEN TO THEM! Shows started dropping off the local tv nwetwork on saturday morning with disclaimers that legislation and rules in my home state had banned the shows (One casualty locally was SATURDAY SUPERCADE - the parents had picketed the local affiliate due to the show promoting 'violent video games' like Q*BERT and DONKEY KONG that were a 'form of gambling addiction'- therefore bannable under the rules for not promoting gambling games locally - I shit you not, again).Meanwhile, on the horror front, movies like SILENT NIGHT DEADLY NIGHT were being pulled from theaters. Action movies suddenly shifted gears to be "nicer," while there suddenly vanished any sort of scary movies for kids, the scene shifting from the powerful hero kids of the 70s to late 80s kids who were barely able to manage to leave the house, much less defeat otherworldly demons like in THE GATE. It started to really piss me off, as a kid, that my voice was becoming increasingly silenced by waves of vicious-ass adults who wanted to just crush our balls and put a stranglehold on us being able to do anything or see anything or even READ anything - D&D books were being burned, mere TOYS were being banned. I remember a Skeletor Costume you could buy that had an Evil Sword where the box said "Become Skeletor and use this sword to destroy the powers of good!" that Pat Robertson featured in an episode of THE 700 CLUB and suddenly that toy was pulled from my local TOYS'R'US.The sad fact is, culture and society have not yet recovered from this. We can't have Ming the Merciless be an Asian in the movies because of racial insensitivity. Same with Dr. Zin from JOHNNY QUEST - HE CAN'T BE ASIAN WAAAAAH. Look around and find some stories about changes that were forced on movie makers because of studios flipping out because the audience is now too dumb to know better. I've watched audiences get dumber and dumber, watched society take a giant shit on itself, and it makes me furious because it means the CONCERNED PARENTS AGAINST ANY KIND OF FUN have won - people's minds are now PILLOW PEOPLE dull, and that is what they wanted. Religion is flourishing across the globe, with religiosu zealots destroying each other in the name of nonexistent gods on all sides. Evolution is faltering in the US, creationism is on the rise.What it really makes me frusteated about, honestly, is this - I picked a side in the conflict between intelligent reason and stupid xeal, and I picked thw wrong side, because stupid zeal has won.How does this tie in to AVATAR? Maybe now you understand why I am so deeply suspicious of the movie and its supposed action sequences based on what I have seen. It's not that I want the blood and gore itself per se, but in a movie about people shooting lasers and missiles I want there to be hte kind of awesome action consequeces there were in movies like RAMBO FIRST BLOOD PT 2 where there were bodies flying everywhere every two seconds. THAT is what "an action movie" is to me, but it's not what I think I'm going to get. I think I'm going to get a smurfy forest story about nice creatures running around, and that pisses me right hte fuck off becaus it is a reminder of how far we've failed.
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but also a bit provincial maybe. No disrespect intended by that comment, btw. I completely share your enthusiasm for action films to be full of, well, action. It's a difficult genre to get right. Maybe it's these rose-coloured glasses I'm wearing and maybe this glass stays half-full, but I see an outlook for movies that offer alternatives to just the mainstream fare. Many people are tired of remakes, reboots, and the like and there are alternatives even if they are far and few between at times.Someone like Quentin Tarantino offers some delights. Someone like Wayne Kramer offers delights. Someone like Park Chan-Wook offers delights. Tony Jaa is always something exciting. Ditto Zack Snyder. Ditto Pierre Morel. Ditto Alexandre Aja. The list goes on.My point is that there is always a filmmaker constantly, sometimes to the point of horrifying career-ending calamity striving to bring their truest, most honest vision to the screen. Not all of the filmmakers that I mentioned above fit into this category, per se. But there are so many films out there and so many adventures to choose from, why limit your outlook based on a few feeble minded prudes? There opinions will NEVER speak for the majority of filmgoers.I remember the heyday of "Category 3" films from Hong Kong; my friends and I used to spend any available money to see videos like "Run & Kill," "Doctor Lamb," "The Ebola Syndrome" etc., because they were precisely the type of brutal exploitation films that were 'beyond the pale' (at least for movies with such high production values). There were distributors like "Video Search of Miami" that specialized in rare and "lost" movies, alternative cuts and exploitation fare. We must have spent thousands of dollars between us buying and trading these movies. Didn't care if they were 15th generation dupes. We just wanted the GOODS. And, eventually we realized: these films are ALWAYS being made. I'd urge you to get online and look for reviews of the wide variety of 'action,' 'horror,' 'sf,' 'erotic' or whatever type of genre floats your boat. Believe me, there are TONS of movies to see. Many won't get a theatrical release in America, or maybe they'll get a limited festival release, but you can see them if you want to. Before the inevitable Hollywood remake.How does this relate to James Cameron's "Avatar"? Well, he is a filmmaker that is completely devoted to his craft, does exhaustive research and is meticulous in extremis. He cares about every frame going into his projects. He's an extremely gifted at orchestrating dramatic tension in an action scene. Also, he's not content telling the same story all the time, nor is he focused on one single demographic. He has made hard 'R' SF action pictures, a 'PG-13' tech/fantasy, a theme park movie (in 3D), a 'PG-13' romance and now he's creating a 'PG-13' Fantasy. That does not mean that he is 'selling out' or 'dumbing down'. The demands of the story determine the STYLE in which it is told.This is his fantasy movie. It's made for the broadest audience possible, because that style fits the themes of what he's writing about. A "John Carter of Mars"-esque tale doesn't require extensive bloodletting. Stallone did that in "Rambo"(2008) because that film DEMANDS that type of brutality.It seems like your blaming Cameron for not repeating himself. Look at Speilberg—he directed "Jurassic Park" and "Schindler's List" in the same YEAR. For filmmakers working at that caliber and budget level proving their range as storytellers, not only in HOW they tell the story, but also, the TYPE OF STORY they tell shows how effective they are at their craft. You don't do that by repeating yourself.
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My bad.
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Excellent post, and it's clear you put a lot of thought into it. I'm refreshed. It's good to hear that for once my words are being heard and not just listened-to.And it really WAS awful, btw - these people were just the worst, most dull-witted pieces of walking crap you could ever envision. The lady with the green lipstick I mentioned before looked basically exactly like a white-haired version of that one fake woman who doesn't exist with the pinched-up face who used to appear on Landover Baptist's website I mean, I can't even laugh at that parody site because it was too real for what I experienced.Remember, this is Oregon we are talking about, home of the Oregon Citizens Alliance that tried to pass a law equating homosexuality with bestiality and necrophilia that would've required all gay-positive books to be removed from our local libraries. And ... near half the state voted FOR it. Just not enough of a majority to get it passed.I see the world currently spiraling into a pit of namby pussification coupled with vicious hatred of all that is different or unique. I see Hollywood doing the same thing, to make money off that dim public. I feel like there was a time when a big action movie would be ALIENS, filled with gunfire and acid and bodies flying everywhere in a symphony of action and adventure - like RAIDERS with all its violence being part of the story and fitting the mood and tone. But with REIGN OF FIRE, ROCKETEER, etc. being big examples of movies that promised huge action and then refused to even begin to deliver on it, I reached a point of saying, hey, you know what, Hollywood has lost its balls.
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Shit, I think my ASS will be fucked when this one's over.
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i want that in imax 3d...
with tom arnold's cock digging into my eye socket..and jamie lee's cock poking me in my mouth...and Arnie telling me about the children. wait...what are we talking about? -
i just tried to be a 'funny' talkbacker...didn't work.
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It sounds traumatizing. Are you serious? They tried to equate homosexuality with necrophilia? Wow. Just…Wow.Dealing with the OSA sounds like stale vomit on a hot summer day.But, you can look back on it and laugh, no? The chick was wearing green lipstick. What the fuck—was she fellating spinach for rent?
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From wikipedia: Oregon Ballot Measure 9 (1992)
Government Cannot Facilitate, Must Discourage Homosexuality, Other "Behaviors".
Election results
Yes or no Votes Percentage
X mark.svg No 828,290 56.47%
Yes 638,527 43.53%
Invalid or blank votes %
Total votes 1,466,817 100.00%
Voter turnout undetermined%
Election results by county
Oregon election results-DATA MISSING.svg
Yes No
Source: Oregon Blue Book [1]
Ballot Measure 9 was a ballot measure in the U.S. state of Oregon in 1992, concerning gay rights and public education, that drew widespread national attention.
Measure 9 would have added the following text to the Oregon Constitution:
“ All governments in Oregon may not use their monies or properties to promote, encourage or facilitate homosexuality, pedophilia, sadism or masochism. All levels of government, including public education systems, must assist in setting a standard for Oregon's youth which recognizes that these behaviors are abnormal, wrong, unnatural and perverse and they are to be discouraged and avoided. ”
It was defeated in the November 3, 1992 general election with 638,527 votes in favor, 828,290 votes against.[2]
Contents
[hide]
* 1 Political context
* 2 Lingering effects
* 3 See also
* 4 References
* 5 External links
[edit] Political context
The ballot measure was an effort of the Oregon Citizens Alliance, a conservative group active in Oregon politics in the 1990s.[3] Supporters of the measure felt that their traditional values were under siege in the face of growing acceptance of homosexuality by society.[citation needed]Opponents stated that the measure was unfairly discriminatory, that it was unconstitutional, and that it demonstrated the homophobia and bigotry of its backers.[citation needed]
The OCA would go on to back Measure 13, which would have prevented schools from using materials that were deemed to legitimize homosexuality, and Measure 19. They also backed another measure numbered 9 ("son of 9") in 2000. All these were unsuccessful.
[edit] Lingering effects
Although the measure failed, its legacy can still be seen today. The Oregon Citizens Alliance went on to introduce a series of watered-down ballot measures along the same lines as Measure 9 (most of which failed). On the other hand, opposition to Ballot Measure 9 formed the basis of much of the current gay rights movement in Oregon, including the organization Basic Rights Oregon. -
... the bestiality/necrophilia thing was one of their "watered down" versions.
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Nov 26, 2009 3:33:45 AM CST
And despite it being called a "victory" for gay right s....
by thusspakespymunk
... the thing to consider is that over half a million Oregonians thought that was a great idea. And you wonder why I have no fucking hope for people?
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From wikipedia - Scott Lively is the president of Defend the Family, a conservative Christian organization located in Temecula, California, and a noted anti-gay activist.[1]
Along with Kevin E. Abrams, he co-authored the book The Pink Swastika, a book based on supposed links between homosexuals and the Nazi Party, though professional historians have dismissed the book's claims.[2] Lively is the former state director for California's branch of the American Family Association, and went on to form the anti-homosexual group Watchmen on the Walls based in Riga, Latvia.[3][4]
In 1991, Lively forcibly ejected lesbian activist Catherine Stauffer from a private Oregon Citizens Alliance event in a church that she was filming.[5] Stauffer received a monetary judgement against Lively for battery and the OCA in 1992.[6] -
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2009/11/usc-professor-creates-alien-language-for-avatar.html
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If you're still around that environment any news or perspective your bound to get is filtered to seem like your being assaulted on all sides. Don't believe the bullshit. They're a minute group like that idiot church with the "God Hates Fags" t-shirts. Fringe players in the wrong sandbox and are viewed as such. Their pathology is so warped I think nature is voiding her carcinogenic, toxic bowels into this last, failed experiment in the gene pool.As for movies, try to find more internet forums to discover exciting developments in the "action" or "horror" genres. Always excellent stuff to be found in the international market.
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D E C E M B E R
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This should be the Avatar theme song. This is very beautiful and very hopeful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
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Christmas comes early to my house.
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Since it's not on the homepage, I just wanted to let everyone know that Guillermo "bargain genius" Del Toro is shooting his "Hobbit" in 35mm, non 3D-compatible film stock. Peter Jackson said as much and he explained Del Toro wanted to stay within the same universe as the LOTR trilogy. You know, the universe for which, among other things, some university professor invented a whole new language twenty years before George Lucas was born. So, even if they retrofit the LOTR films five years from now, we will see this timeless tale the old fashion way. I know it reads like I'm a Luddite but that's because I am (despite the occasional talkback post). Viva la pellicula con celluloid! Viva Del Toro! Still, good luck to James "expensive genius" Cameron. Viva Avatar (con esperenza)!
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We're all wankers, honestly.
Sorry...I'm grouchy. My turkey hasn't fully defrosted yet. Actually looking forward to AVATAR.
I'm working on an exciting new dish...you've heard of "beer can chicken"? This is malt liquor turkey...you shove a forty-dog of Steel Reserve up its tookus and put it on the grill for 5-6 hours.
Still perfecting the recipe...the last time the bottle exploded and the bird was last seen flaming out over a neighbor's garage a block over... -
Nov 26, 2009 8:07:18 AM CST
Na'vi language strikingly similar to Fat Albert's Mush Mouth...
by burnhollywood
You be the judge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-9sJ-SWLoE -
'It’s an animation process, but it’s about taking what actors did and using what the actors did and preserving that in the character of the CGI character. Every split second of what you’re seeing was performed by Zoe or Sam'. He is telling this while we’re seeing a clip of Sam’s character riding a dragon, performing a free-fall of 300 meters along a cliff. I’ll tell you what; I want to see that making of!
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Was WRITTEN by James Cameron, you fucking knob gobbler. You are like a caricature of what a troll would be if someone wrote a two-dimensional troll character for some shitty sitcom like THE BIG BANG THEORY. If you are truly this stupid for real, please kill yourself before you pollute the world with even one more "thought". On this Thanksgiving, that will give us all something to be thankful for.
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is underage, so you're also a fucking wannabe pedophile.
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...understand why certain groups don't like being portrayed in a negative light for no reason. Ming the Merciless, as originally drawn, was a RACIST CARICATURE OF AN ASIAN MAN, even though HE WASN'T ASIAN...HE WAS A FUCKING ALIEN. So how about this: maybe Hollywood will do a new Flash Gordon film, in which Ming will be stereotypically asian, and also suck every dick in sight because he'll be a giant evil queen.
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...calling you homo and knob gobbler by the way. Maybe there is hope for America yet, huh?
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Nov 26, 2009 12:52:27 PM CST
Spymunk, NOBODY, but nobody ever said that
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Avatar would "be more violent than TERMINATOR". Stop putting words in peoples' mouths. And if you think that Avatar is 'actionless' based on some absurd technicality then you should get your head checked. Seriously, do you actually listen to, or comprehend, any of the points being made here? Once again, real simple:1. Good action has nothing to do with explicit violence, so yep, Avatar will rival Aliens and T2 in those terms - and likely surpass them.2. no weapons in Alien 3, Reign of Fire, etc. had NOTHING to do with pussy producers - twas to do with a number of factors, like no budget, change of approach, messy productions, etc. But really, I'm going to say no more, since arguing with you is a fruitless exercis. As it is, Avatar has been rated PG-13 by the MPAA for "INTENSE epic battle sequences and warfare, sensuality (Na'vi sex scene), language, and some smoking(?)". Make of that what you will.
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I'm aware the Coen bros.are control freaks. There's also two of them, so they have someone to bounce ideas off of. I can think of numerous examples where colloborations and even technical limitations made for a better movie. Case in point: at the last minute the producer of Casablanca wanted to get rid of "As Time Goes By". Ingrid Bergman had already cut her hair for another part,so they had to keep it in. Cameron would have just CGIed the hair and left us with a crappy, inferior song. That's what I mean when I say that one person's vision shouldn't be the be all and end all of a movie. The director is the author, for sure, but he needs feedback, not yes-men. Hell, even Kubrick worked with cowriters. And I admit the hype isn't his fault. But spare me the "we have to make Avatar a hit to save movies" bullshit.
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But that's just the point (did you think maybe I used RAMBO: FIRST BLOOD PART 2 on PURPOSE?). The James Cameron who wrote effing RAMBO FIRST BLOOD PART 2 is the same James Cameron who is now making a movie where the hero is - not a crazed-for-justice Vet with a grudge - but a nice blue ballerina horse-face lazer-cat who will dance his way to victory by plugging his braids into the butt of a flying lizard. Um. Yeah. Anyway, your other insults hurt my feelings, seeing as they're not true, and for the last tiem I'm not a troll.
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Nah, you're not being hopeful for America. You're spouting insults. Hopeful would be having an actual legitimate dialogue instead of just going to insults. Did I ever say Ming had to be a stereotype? Nope. But I do wish Hollywood would stop whitewashing the Asian out of everything a la Aang in THE LAST AIRBENDER.
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I never said that AVATAR is or isn't going to "save movies". But this new wave of 3D IS intended to help prop up--perhaps even save--the theatre industry. That's a fact. There are numerous interviews with numerous execs saying exactly that. I am sure a quick google search would turn up several.
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Drop dead you pathetic fucking troll. You are on this board for no reason other than to try and annoy the shit out of people, and I simply like fucking with you is all...but the act is getting tiresome, so I think we're done here.
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You make some valid points. I am still dubious on the ALIEN 3 / REIGN OF FIRE points, mainly because of Hollywood's SUPER-INSANE pc attitudes of that time (around the same time Walkie Talkies were being computer-inserted into E.T. to remove any image of guns). But it sounds like you are trying to talk from an educated perspective on both of the movies. I was so disappointed by REIGN OF FIRE that I left the theater as soon as it became clear that the movie being sold on the poster wasn't in the theater I was attending REIGN OF FIRE at. I walked right as the opening narration said "The battle between man and dragon lasted for five weeks" or whatever and then showed a quick flash of a gunship (not firing any weapons) being brought down by a dragon (a two-second shot). I said, ok, that's what the poster was referencing, I'm out of here. I got a refund, thank goodness.Of course, I eventually got my wish with DRAGON WARS, which is an incredibly shitty POWER RANGERS-level movie but DOES feature a brief sequence that represents what I wanted to be shown in REIGN OF FIRE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcialPKhiT4 I just wanted good actors and production values to go along with it.
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Further, part of what I disbelieve about the motivations with REIGN OF FIRE is that it was a bigger-budget movie than DRAGON WARS, yet DRAGON WARS has a ten-fucking-minute sequence of massive warfare in a major city with gunships and dragons and all that. So I have to think, ok, if it's not the budget, then they clearly have some producer saying "Well, what if the fight had already happened, and we didn't show it - that'd save money AND be less violent - the kids LOVE movies that are less violent. In fact, how about making the story all set in the future, after the opening sequence indicates the present, so we can avoid any action whatsoever? I think that'll make parent groups happy."
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I see your point about 3D, I'm just sick of nits who dismiss whole decades worth of movies because they're in B&W or silent or whatever, and I hope it doesn't come to that with 3D. I guess I'm bitter probably because I see Cameron as a triumph of technology over art - sorry, that 's just the way I see. And I was never talking about box office but rather internet forums where for literally months all anyone would talk about was Titanic. No, it's not Cameron's fault. Nor are the Bay movies *directly* his fault, but the success of Titanic did not make studios look for original filmmakers with visions -they looked for turgid romantic blockbusters. I'm afraid that instead of original visions (maybe, just maybe Ridley Scott will get to make Forever War, but I can hear people now saying "it's just ripping off Avatar") the studios will just give bigger budgets to the Emmerichs and McGs of this world.
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Thanks for being civil. I know I can be bitter and even a little whiny, but I try not to call people names. (Yeah, I think I called Cameron a jerk, but really, that's pretty mild compared to what's thrown around herE(.
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I just don't like Cameron, but I save my worst vitriol for Zemeckis, who has sold his soul to CGI completely. Shadenfraude is not a good thing, but seeing the returns on Christmas Carol does my cold heart nice.
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I'm giving up on this forum because I'm tired of wading through the political bullshit (serriously guys, that's what huffPo and Freep are for). But I admit I'll probably see Avatar once, do my part for the cause or whatever, and just because it looks pretty entertaining. But frankly, honestly, I'm more excited about Dr. Parnassus.
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Honestly, I hope if it gets made it is NOT Ridley Scott...because I don't think he's been on his "A" game for more than a decade...I kind of wish he'd hang it up...
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"at the last minute the producer of Casablanca wanted to get rid of "As Time Goes By". Ingrid Bergman had already cut her hair for another part,so they had to keep it in. Cameron would have just CGIed the hair and left us with a crappy, inferior song."And you know this, how?Seriously, what utter nonsense. Your hatred of Cameron is almost comical.
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...I don't understand why it always goes there, either.
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Nov 26, 2009 1:22:08 PM CST
And you actually contradicted your argument, as well...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
why would Cameron, of all people, acquiesce to the producers on a particular point, when you've made great play about how he's an egomaniac and you actually think the 'auteur theory' (which you claim JC is guilty of)is a bad thing?
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did he put his finger or something else in your asshole,when u were a little boy?
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Nov 26, 2009 1:25:44 PM CST
I would like to see The Forever war by Scott, actually...
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
And Brave New World as well. But he has certainly been putting out a great deal of bland, forgettable films lately, and his upcoming projects (Monopoly, ugh) do not look at all promisisng...
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fault for the current situation in Hollywood,but the cause for all these,is the original Star Wars.that movie was the game changer in film industry and not Titanic.and its not my opinion,this thing has been told by famous directors like scorsese and depalma.
so blame lucas and not cameron,for what is happening nowadays with Holywood. -
lucky bastard
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As I explained previously, the whole angle of Alien 3 came from an earlier draft where Luddite monks inhabited a wooden planet. Thus, no weapons. If it was all a conspiracy as you claim, why then was he film still rated R, and more importantly, why then did Alien resurrection, which came 5 years later, feature guns? Not to mention this was about 10 years before ET special edition, which I agree had ridiculous changes (not to mention getting absurdly getting rid of the 'you're not going dressed as a terrorist' line), but that was more of an individual case of Spielber being a sop to PC mores as he got older.Reign of Fire, I imagine, just didn't feature battles period, becuase it was a fairly low budget effort set in a post-apocalyptic London. Misleading and (your favorite phrase) a False Bill of Goods, but not neccessarily in the way you're thinking of. And why would there be PC concerns about shooting dragons (not other humans) anyway?As far as Avatar is concerned, the ridiculous hyper-violent expectations were placed on it by you alone; that was never promised by anyone. It is only a misleading effort in your own head. I could say 'hey, James Cameron created sexy aliens,it must be for a reason, therefore I want to see a Na'vi orgy', and then rail at the film when it wasn't shown. But that would be my delusion, nothing to do with the film itself.
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Anything that's influential iss going to be copied to inferior effect. Should filmakers be pilloried for creating original works?Forget Spielberg and Lucas; I remember reading an absurd article once which tried to pin the blame of the blockbuste rera even further back, claiming that David Lean movies and 2001 were responsible, because they emphasized epic spectacle, and in the case of 2001, near 'plotlessness' (although, of course, 2001 isn't at all plotless upon close inspection). 'Blame' can be apportioned anywhere - it's a fool's game. Anything that creates an impression and is of quality, is going to have a trickle-down effect.
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(summer) blockbuster was non-existent in the film industry.from that small detail u can understand how huge was the impact of those movies in the movie business.
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You could also argue that the digital revolution wouldn't have happened NEARLY as fast had Lucas not pushed for non-linear editing and the ability to digitize footage which has lead directly to the current crop of DSRL's for under $1800 that shoot HD quality with film lenses and DOF. I highly doubt Sony would have gotten us there anywhere near as soon as we have, had there not been a push from the filmmaking side to democratize the cost of the process. But then again, what has it proven? That there's millions of wannabe filmmakers out there who should stay just that... wannabe filmmakers. But I urge anyone who wants the real story of how we got here... and I mean, the WHOLE STORY, to read Droidmaker: George Lucas and the digital Revolution. You get it all in that book... Pixar, ILM, IBM, Photoshop... literally every other page is, "And then so-and-so invented (insert now famous piece of software/hardware here)." I never realized that Coppola was so involved in high-def from such an early stage and that he tried to lure people like Alvy Ray Smith from Lucas to work on HIS digital processes. And this is like 1980. Just an amazing read... but don't take my word for it, go to Amazon and read the reviews from people like BEN BURTT.
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Nov 26, 2009 2:07:31 PM CST
ominus, the term may have been non-existent before that,
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
but there have always been those types of crowd-pleasing films. People were watching Irwin Allen disaster films in the 70's, way before Jaws and Star Wars. Some even claim The Godfather as the first 'blockbuster'. In any case, I've always thought that blaming Lucas and Spielberg for the death of 'challenging and personal' 70's cinema, and the rise of the summer blockbuster in the 80's, was an incredibly short-sighted and snobbish argument. Hollywood has ALWAYS been a business; the 70's era was largely a cultural accident based on the changes in the film industry at that time, and the wider social and political changes of those times in the world at large. Once Hollywood got its act together, it became a business again. If it hadn't been for lucas and spielberg's movies it would've have been something else. And audiences were certainly watching plenty of 'junk' prior to these movies - it wasn't at all a case of audiences flocking to see european-influenced art cinema back then, despite what some film history books would have us believe.
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reading Droidmaker will definitely make you realize what a visionary he really is. Star Wars is probably the least important aspect of his story... it merely generated the money to hire the people and force the technology to evolve in ways it might not have otherwise. In the book, he's like Marlon Brando in The Godfather... showing up just enough to keep it interesting, but staying in the background enough to tell the real story, which happens between all the people working for him.
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Are considered to be the first "modern" blockbusters more because of the way they were marketed than the content and/or films themselves. Until JAWS came along, there really wasn't a "summer movie season", and until SW, no movie had had that much cross-polination with other media and tie-ins, etc.
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i agree that in even the 50s and 60s there were big and ambitious movies which became boxoffice his in their time.Holywood was and always will be about the business first.
BUT the difference lies on the fact that Lucas with his movie brought the big spectacle and the revolutiany sfx in the front view,gaining the entusiasm and money of millions of moviegoers (since they saw things that they havent seen before) thus changing the concept of the summer boxoffice hit.
after SW, the sfx industry became the primary focus of Holywood and begun its uninterrupted progression until our days.
SW showed to Holywood the road to follow in order to make blockbusters: people were going to the cinemas to escape from their everyday,boring life and inviting them to new imaginative worlds,constructed with the help of cool sfx,was the best way to get their money.
thats why SW is considered a game changer in film industry.not only because of his huge success that made summer blockbuster a trend,but because also it made sfx the primary focus of a movie.
after SW the blockbuster movie attractions werent about huge epic tales like the Giant or Gone by the Wind.it was about the eye-candy,the escapism to the fantastic,the saturation of our sensory receivers,the visceral experience of our senses.
thats how sw changed cinema business. -
Spymunk: "I can't wait. Watching the geeks on here stumble to come up with explanations other than "Nobody in America likes sci-fi and fantasy" will be hilarious to see. Fuck you all, AVATAR fans. Your day of FAIL is coming soon!"
Fuck YOU, you fucking wannabe pedophile. I wonder if you'd have the guts to talk so mich shit to Cameron's face...or any talkbacker on here, for that matter. Probably not, since you are a stupid, spineless faggot. Enjoy sucking cock and being a second-class citizen. -
When Casablanca was being made the producer was considered the authot of the film, not the director, at least in the studio system (this is why the Oscar for Best Picture goes to the producer still). My point was not whether it was the producer or the director - it was that just because you can make everything exactly to your vision, doesn't mean it's always a good thing. Lucas made the original trilogy with others. He made the prequels all by himself. Coppola with others made The Godfather. Coppola unrestrained on his own made One From The Heart. THAT'S my point. If Avatar makes a crapload of money, it means that hacks like Zemeckis and Bay will get more money and more control. And yeah, Lucas started the ball rolling. But I'm not optimistic that Avatar will mean a lot more great movies.
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for calling Zemeckis a hack: the Back To The Future trilogy is 2 1/2 great movies. But he's clearly lost his mind.
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I think he's slightly overrated, and I think his movies lack spontaneity or soul, and I think that technical briliance isn't the be all and end all of filmmaking. Christ, believe it or not, not everybody likes Kubrick or Scorsese.
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SPymunk doesn't speak for me.
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I forgot that all you guys are having your Thanksgiving, as I'm in Canada. No wonder there's so much traffic. There's no better way to spend a holiday than bitching about movies.
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You know, I really do have work I should be catching up on instead of sitting on my ass on the computer right now, BUT I think it is more fun fucking with Spymunk. I can do work tomorrow.
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have fun. I'm going to try to stop talking about Cameron and Avatar until the thing actually comes out. I will leave with this prediction: it will do, adjusted for inflation, King Kong (2005) business. By which I mean it will be a major hit but a disappointment compared to its predecessor. I could be wrong, of course.
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have fun. I'm going to try to stop talking about Cameron and Avatar until the thing actually comes out. I will leave with this prediction: it will do, adjusted for inflation, King Kong (2005) business. By which I mean it will be a major hit but a disappointment compared to its predecessor. I could be wrong, of course.
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Hey, it's neat how nobody else is calling me names, but you can't seem to stop. How about being a gracious Talkbacker and sticking to discussing movies with me, instead of insulting me incorrectly? None of the things you're saying about me are true, anyway, so what's the point?
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I'd call that accurate. That's pretty much what I'm thinking it's going to do. Half the business or a third of the business of NEW MOON.And as for my "day of fail" comment, the thing is this - it's not really even about Cameron or the movie. It's about fanboys, whom I have a deep contempt for as they wriggle their slimy way to try to get into a mainstream that hates and despises their smelly convention antics. These dirty, filthy people who don't know how to spell "shower" let alone take one, who reek of bad breath and Taco Bell leavings, are some of the most repugnant people on the face of the planet. And it was them who were dancing around on here months ago saying "AVATAR - DECEMBER - NOTHING ELSE MATTERS" and "WILL BE MORE INSANE ACTION THAN T2 AND ALIENS" and "WILL THIS BE THE MOST VIOLENT AND INSANE ACTION MOVIE EVER?" and "PEOPLE WILL GO TO THIS 10 TIMES GUARANTEED IT WILL LOOK LIKE NOTHING EVER" and "PHOTO REALISTIC TOTALLY REAL EFFECTS THE ALIENS WILL LOOK LIKE REAL ACTORS!"It was the fanboys who were posting things like "$500MILLION IN TWO WEEKS? POSSIBLE!" It was this delusion that bothered me, this crazy idea that what a fanboy likes and what a normal human being likes are the same thing. I hate it when fanboys begin to start to feel like they're part of the mainstream. They are not. They are anime-girl panty-sniffing fucks very many of whom wanted to bang Hermione Granger in the fucking FIRST Harry Potter movie, let alone any of the others. Taylor Lautner is 18, on the other hand, by the way, General, which is a legal age to find someone good-looking. My effing god.Fanboys piss me off when thy try to act "normal," because they're not. I personally would like to see the fanboy crowd start to shower and shave and brush their teeth. If that were to happen, it would go a long way toward ending my frustration with their smell. I went to a convention and the place fucking reeked of body-sweat and ass-stink so bad I had to leave early. It was so disgusting I couldn't enjoy any of the things I had come to see and do.So chill out, General. Let's talk about the movies. I'm tired of playing name-calling games.
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Whatever. I don't have a lot to say to you after you trashed District 9.
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... if it were a deeply-personal movie of Cameron's where he said "I'm making a deeply-personal flick for myself, an artistic project that represents a lot of ideas in which I believe," then I might be more inclined to listen. If he'd say "I'm going to try to really raise the bar on CGI," I'd be gracious with him. If he's said "I hope you enjoy my personal vision," I'd go see it. But when he says it's going to be the world-changing event of all time, and gets all his friends to lie and say that the effects look photo-real, then I'm not going to respect him and I'm going to call him out on it. As I've been doing. News to fanboys: people don't like sci-fi unless it's called STAR TREK and they don't enjoy fantasy unless it's HARRY POTTER or has hot male actors in it (TWILIGHT, LORD OF THE RINGS, etc.) This has been borne out by the box-office over and over and over again (Hell, even DARK KNIGHT had Christian Bale and IRON MAN had Robert Downey Jr.).
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You can have your opinion about District 9, and that's cool. But you seemed to use that movie every chance you get to go off on weird political tangents that I find incredibly tedious. So.. whatever.
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I found DISTRICT 9 kinda tasteless, mostly, with the broad racial stereotypes (white people are all arrogant fucks, black people are all thieves and crooks and scoundrels) and felt like it was painting broad brushstrokes when subtlety was needed.
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... FELT TO ME like it was this ugly, nasty world. Like if you have a friend who farts and laughs at his own farting, and then belches in the middle of a wedding reception speech. That's kind of what DISTRICT 9 felt like with its snot and slime and "sex with shrimp" photo, etc. You know how in a movie if you want to show someone is gross you have a close-up on them laughing from the side and show their really nasty made-up-painted-black teeth? That's how all DISTRICT 9 felt to me, that kind of ugly nastiness Peter Jackson loves to put in all his movies, whether it be Wormtongue in LORD or BAD TASTE or FEEBLES or BRAINDEAD.
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I liked it. Agree to disagree.
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Just to prove I'm -not- a troll, I'm not responding to the hurtful name-calling except in saying that, I'm going to give the movie a fair shake if it's on television (not gonna see it theaterside unless I get free tickets or someone pays for mine to go) and if it does stellar business I will admit I was totally wrong.
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never said Avatar was "world changing". He said the technology they were implementing could possibly change the way films were made in the future.
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... comes from any subgroup that lives up to the reputation it has. I dislike a lot of gay people for acting stereotypically in their behavior because it gives Repubs ammunition to hurt us all. I dislike fanboys who act like that because it gives a bad rep to anyone who likes sci-fi and fantasy and showers every day.What I'd love is to live in a world where, if someone said "Fuck you, all fanboys stink and live in their parents' basement!" all the fanboys in the world would just laugh and go back to their spotless $1m mansions. Where nobody who listens to heavy metal music would ever commit a crime or especially blame the music if they DID commit a crime. Where horror fans are pacifists. Giving the evil side ammunition is one of the worst things people can do, and the best answer is to be so fucking far beyond reproach that if someone does deride what you like you can say "Fuck you, you don't know shit. And you're totally factually wrong." That's a huge part of my dislike for fanboy mentalities, because believing you're in the mainstream when you're not just makes you work less hard on improving yourself. The more a fanboy improves himself, the more he says fuck-you to the mainstream.
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with the people who hate a movie that they havent even seen,but consider D9 a great scifi movie.jesus.
i did enjoy it,i found the characters and the story interesting,the action and the sfx were nicely delivered,it was well-made as a whole,but frankly it had flaws,inconsistencies and plot holes bigger even than Transformers 2.if PJ's name wasnt attached to it,it wouldnt have received so much exposure and applaud.anyway,i hope D10 will fix most of D9's probelms.
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It's all right. I agree to disagree with you. At least you seem to have a level head and can discuss all this like a rational adult. I respect that quite a bit.
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that the things you state above,have been spoken by nerds several months ago? because i started visiting the avatar talkbacks before summer,and frankly i havent seen such comments.are you sure you read them here?
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Yeah, they were all spoken here in various AVATAR talkbacks. The one that finally blew my lid was the "$500m in two weeks? IT'S POSSIBLE!" which was about how the worldwide box-office for this movie was going to break ALL conveivable records, with lines around the block to all showings, because audiences across the US and the world will see nothing but awesome onscreen.
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I think that was one Tb'er who was exaggerating to rebuff a heap of negative posts.It could also have been a negative Tb'er being sarky.
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and i also remember that the guy was trolling,he just threw it as a part of the whole flame wars concerning avatar.if you believe that the people making such claims are serious,then either you are naive or the guy with the claim is insane.and that has nothing to do with nerds.
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Now, I've been criticized by people who say "So what? People are excited about this movie!" Well, see, my version of excitement like that doesn't need delusion: "God, I'm excited for AVATAR - it looks AWESOME based on its merits and I love James Cameron! It probably won't do much business, but who cares? It's going to be awesome!" <-- most likely truth, and level-headed response.
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One of the things about autism, btw, is that autistic people really can't lie. We can't. It's not in our genetic make-up. We tell the truth ALWAYS. Obviously, if we are perceiving something incorrently, we will talk about what we perceive - I'm not saying we're always right, but you'll find for the most part people with high-functioning autism may seem totally normal but they can't lie to save their own shit. It's just not a possibility. And I have it, too.
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is considered by the people who have read it,awesome,so why the fan shouldnt have an awesome experience in the cinema,regardless if the movie sinks or not?
man you are talking the whole matter too seriously,just relax and enjoy the ride as you americans say. -
I will admit something, Omnius, that General could've gotten out of me if he'd been nicer and I hadn't had to respond to all his me-specific hostility.I saw a new trailer today before NINJA ASSASSIN that actually got me kind of excited about this movie. The effects looked sharper, the moves looked better and more smooth and realistic. Are they re-rendering things?
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make on purpose, the previous trailer to look less sharp and darker than the original teaser.i dont know why they did that,but there is a youtube video which shows those differences.check it.
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you're not allowed to look forward to a movie anymore.I didn't want to see AvP, but I hoped it would be good (it wasn't). What possible fucking point would there be for me to go to the cinema thinking "I hope this is shit and fucking bombs..." What a stupid waste of 6 quid that would be.
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You wouldn't even wish that if all the idiots you knew were dancing around saying "AVP IS GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST HIT OF ALL TIME! THERE WILL BE MORE SPECIAL EFFECTS AND ACTION THAN IN ALL ALIEN AND TERMINATOR AND PREDATOR MOVIES COMBINED! THE ACTING WILL BE AMAZING! IT WILL MAKE $1B AT THE AMERICAN BOX-OFFICE!" Then, you saw the director saying "With AVP, I've totally changed the face of American film - nothing will be the same, ever again, after this movie, and making it kind of felt like I was walking on the moon for the first time, being one of those pioneers of space travel, and we sure worked as hard on AVP as those moon scientists!" And then you went to log onto the 'net and you saw everyone saying "AT LAST, WITH AVP, GEEKS AND NERDS WILL BE ACCEPTED - IT'LL CHANGE THW WORLD! PEOPLE WHO DISMISS SCI-FI AND FANTASY AS CARTOONS WILL LOVE IT!" and "I think the big audience to carry AVP will be teenage girls who will LOVE the cute alien and predator!" You still wouldn't wish that?
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... THAT is what has happened to me with AVATAR. Oh, and I left out: "The creature effects in AVP are so real you'll fucking shit yourself, your eyes will explode and you'll fucking swear that there really are aliens and predators!"
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before you get too old and its too late.
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AND checking this forum from time to time. Fred and Wilma are switching jobs to see whose is more difficult. Oh, no, Fred! Don't forget about Pebbles!
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words in everyone's mouth (especially Cameron's) and stop having an issue with a lot of bullshit expectations that you seem to have just pulled out of your ass. NO-ONE has ever claimed Avatar was a gorefest (and why the fuck would it need to be?). And Cameron NEVER compared Avatar to the moon landing, do you have the ability to understund context? The reason you get shat on in these talkbacks is because you behave like an idiot. Its clear you know very little about Avatar, but you have all these ridiculous opinions based on nothing. And again, the very fact that you like and defend a movie as bad as New Moon (while trashing a film that none of us have actually seen but made by a director with an actual track record as opposed to a hack like Wietz) just makes it impossible to be civil to you. You really come across like the worst stereotype of the small minded, hyper-obsessed, smug fanboy that just likes to be a contrarion....
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it will piss off and frustrate all the indie film snobs (wookie72), and ignorant jackasses that think they know better how to make a successful film (thussapke).
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I wasn't the one who initially said it would be a gorefest. I like my gore movies (NINJA ASSASSIN? Owned!) but mainly the gripe with the action was fanboys saying "OH MY GOD DUDE THE ACTION IN THIS MOVIE WILL MELT YOUR BALLS!" No, ummm, it's PG-13. It's not going to have R-Rated Action, and R-Rated action is about the only kind that melts my balls. DARK KNIGHT was PG-13 and had -awesome- combat sequences (the street chase ruled) BUT I doubt AVATAR is going to go for that gritty, personal route. But I will say the new trailer in front of NINJA ASSASSIN today was the first time I've thought it looked even watchable.
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wont pay to see Avatar but you will contribute money to a film (new Moon) that is the epitome of empty souless, fad driven, pussification (oh the irony) of the vampire myth bullshit that Hollywood has turned out since that massive piece of shit Transformwers 2.....I actually agree with general jack cosmos, at this point I would gladly watch you kill yourself on youtube...
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Awesome.
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.... takes Talkback to a whole new level. I'd be stunned and surprised by your cruelty, SAG / General ... but you're precisely the sort of people I believed you were at first. Enjoy your lives.
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Nov 26, 2009 7:35:05 PM CST
District 9 is about as overhyped as Paranormal Activity
by lockesbrokenleg
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because you continually avoid any attempt at actually discussing this movie. Every single time you've been countered with an explanation to your misconceptions, you've completely ignored what they've said and continued on with your weird Politics of Fanboyism, Homosexual Twilight Fetishism, and "Hey, I'm Autistic" subject matter. You honestly seem to have some other agenda and it really doesn't appear to have anything to do with AVATAR whatsoever. Are you running for some kinda Fanboy Presidency?
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indeed overboard, and I guess should apologize for saying it. But as umpire just pointed out, that is why you get so much shit here. You are a hypocrite, ignorant of the subject matter you constantly post opinions on, constant ignoring of what anyone says, your bizzare politics, and your failure to admit you were wrong (the whole no guns thing, you were caught out, just fucking admit you nut), and your Twilight fanboyism....
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themselves, and I dont believe generaljackcosmos would either. We would, howver like it if you would remove your head from your ass. And I say this knowing full well how difficult that must be considering how far up your ass your head is.....
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appeal to you thusspake, then cool beans, good for you. But then stop wasting your time in a talkback for a film you have stated repeatedly you dont even intend to watch. You have already proven your ignorance of every aspect of the film, and yet you now want to continue to discuss it with people looking forward to it when you dont intend to see it. So what exactly is your contribution to the discussion (regardless of wether its positive or negative) about this film? Is it just so you can preach your weird conspiracy bullshit about it and Cameron?
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know 100% its not my thing, basically Im indifferent to it. But I sure as hell dont waste my, or other peoples, time on Twilight talkbacks telling the people that like it or are discussing it how much it sucks and how bad it will fail etc...Or how its a conspiracy to defang and pussify the vampire/werewolf genre by a right wing conservative Mormon that is useing said myth to preach abstinance....
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One thing Cameron understands is that the story and characters have to be good first, and the effects are just icing on the cake. The Robert Patrick CGI parts of T2 are still cool as shit, but if the movie didn't have a good story and good characters, I wouldn't care about it 18 years later. Most of the summer crap (Termination Salvation, Transformers 2) have ZERO character development, and have some lame story that doesn't hold up years later. Those movies have alot of explosions, and alot of CG to please a certain base of idiots who pay 10 bucks for these movies. But I grew up in a time where the story and characters mattered, trust me, Cameron understands that.
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u r very stupid, and very loneley i bet. y do u continue to b an asshole? r u one of assimovlives lovers? r u a pitcher or a catcher? y don't u go back to the mormon paedo tb with all the other nu moon idiots. signed: your friend.
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I agree with you 100 percent. The biggest strengths of Cameron's movies are his character. One thing I find so unbelievable about AVATAR from the trailers is that here is a guy who is basically going to give up every element of the civilized world in which he lives for some blue pussy. I do understand the whole conceit of "true love," but I have a real problem with "going native" stories, because what they do is take the most appealing elements and ideals of the "going native" concept (freedom, lack of restrictions, lack of the mundanity of everyday advanced life, the repetition and routine) and pretty it up to make "going native" look like an exciting life.However, as I've said, my personal choice for the ending of AVATAR would be for our her to stay a Na'Avi and send the humans all packing, and then in the victory dance he stubs his toe. The toe gets infected and there are no antibiotics. There are no hospitals - just a shaman who knows nothing about infection. Our hero then dies on the alien world because it has no advanced civilization, no proper medicine and the letters THE END appear over his infected fevered corpse as the other Na'Avi get back to the business of beading their hair and making sure to dig latrines to piss other than where they eat.Going native is oen of the biggest lies of all. Do you know why the Native Americans sold each other out for minimal things in the past? It was 'cuz the things were preferrable to the life they were living - a short lifespan with a usually-sick-and-unhappy end. Civilization may sometimes be harsh, but it gives us the means to live long lives.
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You make a good point. If I agree to see AVATAR and judge it entirely on its own merits, will you do the same for NEW MOON? I'm being serious here. Totally. Then we can meet up again no a talkback like this one and discuss. I am not being snarky or sarcastic. Would you be willing to do that?
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SAG - seriously, I'm not trying to weasel out of anything. My no gun comment was ALWAYS intended to be meant generally, from the start - that any time they could avoid using the guns, they would, that they would avoid firing them if possible (there's a hint of this in the trailer, too, with the 'Flux Zone' that prevents high tech weapons - do you remember me talking about energy fields that would prevent weapons from being discharged?). What I'm trying to say is that I kinda wanted the fighting in AVATAR to resemble NINJA ASSASSIN more than G.I JOE. It's not even that I want violence I get on STAR WARS too for having epic space battles where things just sort of explode and you don't see any injuries or consequences - I'm big on any time there is a WAR shown that it look and feel like WAR, meaning bodies and suffering and pain. In other words, show kids what war really looks and feels like. I feel very strongly about this because one of my best friends growing up - and someone who I deeply was in love with but never told - went to war and died. I've lost a lot of my friends to death in life ... a lot, a significant number of my best friends have died from accidents, suicide and one who went to war.Because of all that, I feel strongly that when war is presented to children it ought to be presented more like what we see in SCHINDLER'S LIST than what we see in G.I. JOE for the impact. I'm a horror fan but NOT a gorehound, as you guessed from observing I enjoy TWILIGHT. I like for ninja assassins to act like ninja assassins - it's not so much a matter of realism (NINJA ASSASSIN isn't realistic) but more like wanting the duck onscreen to quack like a duck. If it doesn't, I cry fowl. Waaah waaah waah waah!
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thanks for the apology. It was out of field, I think, but I appreciate you realizing that and backing away from that kind of approach. Now if only General would do the same. His comments are -really- untrue and mean-spirited and they do hurt my feelings quite a bit.
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Seriously - seriously - there was a mess-up in my previous comment. I mistyped. I was trying to say I AM NOT BEING SARCASTIC HERE. My offer for you to agree to NEW MOON and me to agree to AVATAR was -not- sarcastic. I promise. Just reviewed my message and saw it was a typo. I am NOT being sarcastic, I swear. Seriously. :(
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Sheep.
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More examples of why Hollywood sucks and why I get suspicious, and all that, from wikipedia about CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY: "Warner Bros. and the director held differences over the characterizations of Charlie Bucket and Willy Wonka. The studio wanted to entirely delete Mr. Bucket and make Willy Wonka the idyllic father figure Charlie had longed for his entire life. Burton believed that Wonka would not be a good father, finding the character similar to a society recluse.[16] "In some ways," Burton protested, "he's more screwed up than the kids." Warner Bros. also wanted Charlie to be a whiz kid, but Burton reasoned that "Charlie should be like 90% of us, kids in school who disappear into the background and keep out of trouble."Those Hollywood producer fucks can't handle even the simplest task, can they?
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Do you really believe everything you read on the net?
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... but knowing how producers are, that one sounds totally plausible and likely. "Could you also maybe give him a robot dog? Something toyetic!"
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I don't see how Tim Burton continues to get work.
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Haters get off your high horse. If you really despise the movie then move on...no reason to let a movie your not interested in get your panties in a ruffle, like so many of you are doing. The rest of us are awaiting a hell of a time at the cinemas, which Avatar will definitely be.
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Also, You said that Producers are to blame, but before you clearly highlighted an example of how the studio fucked it up. Producers aren't there to fuck up a production, they help a director fund the movie.
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to a gentlemans bet as it were. But again, heres where I dont get you. You just post that example of Hollywood producers fucking with the creative process, but Cameron always has been, and based on the Wired.com article (which you should read to understand the tech being used and Cameron's approach to this film) totally against any kind of studio interference. He once physically started choking a Fox studio exec when he complained about budget overruns on Titanic. Now who has nt wanted to strangle a studio exec? The man has always been uncompromising with HIS vision (not yours or mine thusspake), and for that he has my respect. And its that unwillingness to bend from his vision that makes so many people dislike him, or root for him to fail imho. But as far as im concerned the man is a real maverick who plays by his own rules. And imho that is why he almost always succeeds (much to the annoyance some). Because he does nt chase fads or trends....And you can be damn sure he does nt take studio notes from any dipshit studio exec. In the wired article it says that Fox really did nt want the Na'vi to have tails, but Cameron simply said too bad they re going to have tails....
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tion of the action genre, and your assumption (which you have nothing to base off) that the action in Avatar wont match the intensity of Aliens or T2. You come clean about being a fan of Twilight? Where is the intense action or gore there pal? Do you see my problem here thusspake? You constantly contradict yourself, come across as a hypocrite, and only see what you want to even after actual fact has been pointed out to you.
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you with what I think of it....
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what you have seen in the trailers. Again, thats your problem, I have rerad the old scriptment and I can tell you that Jake does nt side with the Na'vi for "some blue pussy" as you so eloquently put it. He s a bitter vetern of some pointless and useless war that has left him crippled and poor. Society does nt give a shit about him either. Then he get transported to a beautiful unspoiled alien world (as the earth has become completely overdeveloped and ruined) where he has long powerful legs again in his Avatar. And since he is a good person at heart, he can see what is being done to the Na'vi so that a powerful corporation can make money from strip mining the place for profit. And it says a lot that you equate development with civilized. No wonder you cant relate to why someone would cross over.....And its hardly unrealistic, many Russian soldiers during the Russian invasion of Afghainstan deserted and went native to fight with local people. Many even converted Islam, and thats a fact thusspake....And I can gaurantee you that had nothing to do with pussy, but rather the realization of a horrors being done to the Afghan people by a arrogant, immoral force that had invaded their land....
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y oh y r u still here? assimovlives needs you to help him roger a few goats. don't worry, he said he'd take the ugly ones. then carry your sorry ass back to the mormon paedo tb, they're one short for the circle jerk.
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the no guns issue. No-one, I repeat no-one from Cameron to whoever has ever stated or promised any kind of gore or hyper violence to the action in Avatar, so why you would expect it is beyond me. Cameron is making his Star Wars here (again, read the Wired article) and thus he is making this film for everyone, not just gore hounds..Nevermind that gore has fuckall to do with great action. Both Aliens and T2 are not gory, and that in no way had a negative effect on the action in those films....
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sorry, signed: your friend.
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Hmmm - you make valid points. My #1 gripe with Hollywood as an entity, really, is that I see other countries making movies that are for the most part uncompromising in terms of what's shown - I don't mean sex or gore, but just IDEAS. In Hollywood, I routinely read about "original versions" of stories. "Well, in the original version, ____________ but the studio decided it should be ____________ so it was changed."Usually, those changes are horrible. And they usually just gut the integrity/interesting nature of the movie. They're NEVER good ideas. They usually involve toy licensing, emasculating a horror/action film, changing for the sake of making the audience feebly happy ("In this version, he doesn't die - he becomes a millionaire!"). It just makes me so upset because I like to write movie scripts for fun, and I have written several complete scripts over my life, but I would never even think of turning them in because they are meant to be whole - not changed. I couldn't tolerate even one change to what I create.If you honestly believe James Cameron is making the movie HE WANTS to make, free from the influence of studios and free from being told what to do by producers, then I will give Cameron the benefit of the doubt, as you seem to be of a particularly knowledgeable mind when it comes to his work.I tend to appreciate singular vision and the idea of someone making a work entirely their own. I admire people who put themselves into their work. As an example of two inferior filmmakers, look at McG or Roland Emmerich. McG has NO vision, no style, nothing. But, as much as one might dislike Emmerich, he earns at least a grudging respect for me because I can recognize a Roland Emmerich movie on sight. Without knowing it's him. He's at least got a style/vision (though I haven't seen 2012 and feel he lost a big part of that vision with DAY AFTER TOMORROW and that looks similar). I respect him, and STARGATE is actually a movie I really truly love, as a pure aside.My favorite director is Wes Anderson (again, you can spot his movies a mile away!) though I have yet to see FANTASTIC MR. FOX.As for the whole TWILIGHT thing, I really do admire what Stephanie M. has done in the story. I know a lot of people gripe about Bella and Edward and the whole thing - but ... I think she created something that certainly takes elements from the vampire myth - but she turned it all into something that belonged to her - and that is why I enjoy the story. There really isn't anything like it, not even with all the copying other people have done. Even if you don't like it, it's different and unique. I happen to like it, especially NEW MOON as a movie - it really worked for me, particularly the Volturi scenes which I felt were really as strong as many more mainstream (to the horror genre fan at least) movies of the past in terms of creepy vampire goings-on. And I liked the big 10ft werewolves. I thought the animation on them was really quite good, esp. the way the animators managed to really get elements of the actors playing the werewolves into their animal counterparts - the director didn't manage that with Freddie Highmore or Nicole Kidman in THE GOLDEN COMPASS, as their animal souls did not represent the people the souls belonged-to OR the actors, I don't think. In NEW MOON, though, Jacob's wolf form subtly resembles Jacob, and when was the last time you ever heard of CGI being subtle?So if it's a deal, SAG, I'll do it - you go see NEW MOON. I'd even ask you to email me! My email is spymunk@gmail.com. I'm not expecting a review, but I'd love to correspond with you via email or talk about NEW MOON and AVATAR both. You're a smart guy, and I appreciate you changing your tact with me.I recognize you got caught up in a little bit of Talkback Hyperbole with your comment before. It's forgotten. So you go see NEW MOON with an OPEN MIND, and I promise I will go see AVATAR and be totally open-minded too.
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thanks 4 giving cameron your benefit of the doubt, i'm sure he will now b able 2 get a good nights sleep, and pls hurry, assimovlives has pencilled you in for goat number 2, a real honour. signed: your friend
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I got on the whole gore thing because of the following thought process: fans were saying the action was going to be more intense than 'R'-rated movies of the past, and my observation of Hollywood has been that they're just terrified of strong male leads and aggressive characters. Given the nature of the story, my interpretation was further made clear that this was a war movie about a war on another world ... that would be PG-13 given the budget making it highly-unlikley they would rate it 'R.' I chose to interpret this as Cameron making a sacrifice - crumbling to producers to make a movie that was 'toyetic' and 'family-oriented' to accomodate a big budget. "Look, James - make it nicer, let's ... maybe say there is a 'Flux Zone' that means less violence!" But if you really, honestly believe this is the intention of Cameron, and you know him as well as you seem to know - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that the Flux Zone and the like are not just inorganic story points designed to explain away violent action. I will give all of that the benefit of the doubt.At the end of the day, I think if enough people educate themselves about the tricks studios use to bullshit the audience, then we can call them on it and change the way movies get made, boycotting movies that have been gutted by producers, refusing any film that gets sacrificed like that in the name of 'toyetic' or 'too faggy' (words used by John Peters to describe SUPERMAN flying, of all things!) then we can do some good.Imagine if everyone in the American viewing public boycotted all John Peters movies, just stopped giving the guy money because they knew how morally and intellectully corrupt and bankrupt and fucked-up he is. Can you imagine what would happen if studios suddenly realized the audience was the one with the power to make creative decisions, and the power returned to the audiences and the artists?
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As I said, the newest trailer - the one before NINJA ASSASSIN - was a lot stronger than the previous one, and clearer, with much better animation. But that didn't influence me to go - your words did, hence my suggestion of the "gentleman's bet." :)
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Does anyone know if they are going to show this at the Lowes at Lincoln Square, or is it only going to be showed at the supper shitty ass AMC 25 at times square?
If the Times Square AMC Liemax is going to be the only option, then as far as I'm concerned, Fox is just pissing their money away on publicity.
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assimovlives says he has an xtra pair of waders in case you forgot yours, but bring your 'nu moon lube' (edward or jacob will do, he knows of your aversion to bella) and no flirting with his private stock, he's weird that way. signed: your friend.
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Nov 26, 2009 11:25:47 PM CST
Re: public boycotted all John Peters movies..yeah then
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
we wouldn't have Batman or Batman Returns or many other great films. Yes his superman ideas were crazy as was Wild West but he is also capable of financing some damn fine movies. Also Freddy Highmore wasn't in The Golden Compass. I don't have a problem with you dude just your fact-checking..
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Nov 26, 2009 11:30:48 PM CST
To have a problem with Camerons choices before you see it
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
is stupidity, but then you like twilight.
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Nov 26, 2009 11:31:53 PM CST
Now that I think of it, I do have a problem with you
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
but then I'm allergic to buffoons.....
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Yeah, he was. He voiced the main actress' soul.
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ohh waaa it isn't playing in NYC waaaa! Fucking moron.
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Nov 27, 2009 12:23:14 AM CST
oh, so why should it look like him and not a Ferret?
by nomoredirtyjokespleaseweareyanks
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As Disney proved, adding some traits of the vocal performer into the figure the performer represents links the character onscreen to the voice more convincingly in the mind of the viewer. NEW MOON does this very well with Jacob. That was all I was saying.
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Oh fuck. You think NEW MOON has better visuals than Avatar? I've heard it all.
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I was trying to say that I felt that they really captured the emotions of the human actor in the face of the animated character in NEW MOON. Esp. in the eyes. I've yet to see AVATAR so I don't know how it looks there.
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Do you seriously lack the ability to comprehend why people give you so much shit on this talback? You seem to alternate between bizarre, foul-mouthed rants and reasonable comments designed to placate us(just so we don't call you a troll), like some sort of hyper-active tourettes sufferer. I must say the spiel about the fanboys made me laugh - that's what you get for going to one of these conventions, buddy; if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the frying pan. I have never attended a conention and don't have a particular desire to either, but seriously, you have issues. In any case, you continue to talk a load of BS. What's with all the "You make good points" stuff, but then completely ignoring what was explained to you and just continuing on as before, ad nauseam? Please point to an example where anyone, even in jest, said that Avatar was going to be 'the most violent action movie ever'. Go on. I remember you said you wanted to see the Na'vi clubbing marines to death and scalping them like in Inglorious Basterds - now that's just silly talk. To take just something you said above - the flux vortex is nothing to do with an attempt to provide an impetus for having no weapons - it's something to do with the magnetic fields on Pandora that cause the floating mountains to, well..float. And if you knew anything about Avatar, anything at all, you'd know that. Didn't you watch the featurette where Cameron explained that was the reason in fact that the marines were using 20th century weaponry on the planet- artillery, shrapnel and projectile weapons, not energy phasers or lasers or any cartoony stuff like that. Ironically, it's an example of Cameron using that plot device so he can have viscera on the action front, instead of Star Trek/Wars style laser weapons! But I digress.
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It wasn't here where that was said. It was another Talkback where a group of fanboys were saying how AVATAR was guaranteed 'R' and would be filled with insane action on par with TERMINATOR and would be a full-on war picture with scalpings and clubbings. Someone else said, no, the studio would never let Cameron do that. I chimed in saying I agreed with the latter.
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If what SAG says is true, maybe it was never Cameron's intent to do that, a thought I had not considered before tonight.
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Nov 27, 2009 1:17:13 AM CST
So...Anyone else think that the Polanski situation should be the
by sonicriver
Roman Polanski just posted bail in Switzerland. He is now living in a house just off the border from France. All that stands between him and freedom is an electronic tagging device on his ankle. All that stands between him and freedom is a hacksaw. What's the bet he does it, and hacks his ankle off to escape jail?
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As soon as I read about what they're doing with Polanski, my first thought was "I bet the guy jumps bail."
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believing crap you have read in the talkbacks. Anyone that has read the old scriptment can tell you that without question Avatar was never written as or intended to be hyper gory or violent. However it never shied away from it. As I said go do some homework and read the Wired article. Avatar is Cameron's Star Wars. What he has always wanted to make since seeing Star Wars in 77. So obviously this film is being made for everyone. You need to stop projecting a lot of fanboy bullshit onto this film. That being said the scriptment was never kiddified, and there certainly is violence. If you had bothered to read any of the interviews done on set with Cameron, you would know that he is making Avatar as he wants, it just simply never was and does not need to be uber gory/violent. It has sweet fuckall to do with the studio "letting" Cameron do anything. Cameron has truly had carte blanche to do what the fuck he wants with this film. For better or worse, success or failure, this is his film through and through. I recognize everything I have seen in the footage/trailers, everything that was in the scriptment appears to be there. Thus we can be sure that Cameron did not have to compromise anything he wrote....
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thusspake, complete fuck you power...And its obvious Cameron has cashed in all his chips/clout to make this HIS film. Remember that he gave up his salary and his points (share of the profit) while filming Titanic to ensure no studio interference, what does that tell you? His vision is more important to him than money, thats what....
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Not only is he going to escape switzerland and extradition to the usa, he is also going to prove to the world that he is actually Magneto from X-men.
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flux vortex, chipmunk meant flux capacitor, hah. seriously, don't be 2 hard on him, he's got assimovlives (and his goats) on his mind. there's a particularly 'fetching' 'kid' he's had his eve on. signed: your friend
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Hey, dipshit, he's always been making HIS movies. Ever since T2 was a success, he's been working on big films. So, kindly fuck off asshat.
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y so serious?
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Blah.
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Avatar will be playing at the Lincoln Center IMAX. There is a wall in the lobby that showcases the next couple of IMAX films that are slated to run at that theater. Avatar will takeover for A Christmas Carol on December 18. It will then have that screen until March 26th when How to Train Your Dragon opens.
I can sympathize since I saw Star Trek at that piece of shit LieMax screen in Times Square. Never again. -
...is trying to reinvent himself in this talkback as some kind of sensitive, caring soul who is "hurt" by name-calling.
Want to see the true SpyMunk? Check out this talkback where he loses his mind over file-sharing:
http://tinyurl.com/yl8bp2o
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http://www.hulu.com/watch/110975/making-a-scene-avatar
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Adults are having a conversation here, when anyone wants to hear from your pathetic, worthless, dumber than shit, inbred mongoloid ass, we will let you know...mmmkay?
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can someone upload it in youtube?
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change to decaf.
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I hope you do complain too about the Jar Jar Abrams's STINO coverage that it gets in here EVERY BLOODY WEEK! Because if you don't, it would be pretty hypocritical to complain about Avatar coverage but accept the STINO coverage without even raising an eyebrow.
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way more than just to decaf. He also needs to grow an extra brain cell so that he can then have two to rub together. And hemight want to aquire some actual taste in film so that he does nt think TF2 was "awsome" ...
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how are things in your neck of the woods? Have nt seen you around here for some time....
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that ending you want in Avatar,is impossible to be done because there is a reason:
in the released footage from the movie,there is a scene where small glowing creatures like fireflies,are touching Jake's skin and healing his wounds he got from the wild dogs earlier.
so no he is not going to die from infection,as you imagine,in the ending of the movie,since it will be a bit of plothole.maybe he can die by cancer,but not infection.cheers. -
http://tinyurl.com/yeat2lf Avatar Trilogy
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where did he go? he was one of the main haters of Avatar months ago.
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question is, does anyone care? He is probably in his trailer park with nerdrage and dioxholster watching stargate reruns while they take turns applying the vasoline and finger banging each other....
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what is the info?
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he probably WAS Nerd_Rage, can't wait for this movie now, showed it my nephews yesterday and they were eccstatic. This is going to be big, but unless it does Titanic numbers I think it will probably be considered a flop.
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about who signed up for the sequals.
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head dude. In fact if I remember correctly from the scriptment, aside from the unobatanium (the mineral that floats in magnetic fields), the other reasons for the RDA being on Pandora is that the atmosphere contains vaccines for common human flu and the cold due to *SPOILER ALERT* Pandora being one giant living organism, so its "immune system" wipes out any viruses humans bring with them. And obviously the RDA wants to patent these vacinations to cure diseases on Earth for a fee (with disease being quite commonplace on Earth due to the state of people's living conditions). Cameron describes most of Earth as looking like a Calcutta Train station, very polluted and overpopulated...
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on wikipedia for almost a year now that the principal cast have all signed on for at least two sequals. And also not suprising considering that Cameron has made it clear he intends to develop an Avatar sequal from the ground up in tandem with Ubisoft. The first time a film director and a game developer will work together to come up with ideas and concepts for a film working as a team.....
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consider how ahead of the curve sci-fi games have been compared to Hollywood for years when it comes to concepts and designs etc...The rumour going around is that Avatar 2 will not even take place on Pandora at all, and that Pandora is just one of the RDA's/Consortium's colonized planets with valuable resources...
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at Lightstorm and Weta. And while some of the stuff he posts at marketsaw are clearly bullshit, he does seem to have inside people at lightstorm and Weta as he has been right many times, and gotten his hands on spy photos etc...months before anything turned up on any other geek sites...
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For real...it covers their butt cracks. Otherwise, we're talking over an hour of bare blue asses on screen.
The insights keep coming. -
ws dude, Imho kids are going to flip for this film....
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Thanks for the info. Do you know if tickets went on Sale for the Lincoln Center IMAX yet?
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Try reading next time. Of course Avatar will play in NYC but there is only one true IMAX here.
Don't get fooled again guys. Know your theaters! -
if u notice in the scene where neutiri jumps in the cliff,suprise suprise she wears tribal underpants or whatever they called.the tail comes out from a hole from the underpants.it reminds me the way the WoW succubus is wearing her panties and the tail comes out from there.NEXT PLEASE.
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thats the correct link,the talkback just meshed it up a little.
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that in the next movie,the Consortium tries to colonize a hostile planet,where it discovers a very dangerous alien species,a species which has acid for blood and reproduce with eggs...
the consortiums wants to exploit those aliens as bio-weapons,but then came the Space Jockeys who want the aliens for themselves,and then we have a major war between Earth and the Space Jokeys and the aliens in the middle.jesus,that would have been awesome. -
I just complemented you on treating me civilly; why you gotta call me an indie snob? My fave is Scorses, who aint no indie filmmaker. I *want* the big studios to invest in more interesting filmmakers. I just don't like Cameron's movies that much, okay?
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at the time was to insult thusspake, if anyhting you just got caught in the crosshairs. But I am sorry if it offended you. However I said it because I think your argument that big epic event films somehow stop small idie type films from being made is complete bullshit. I love Scorcese too (goodfellas and raging bull being my faves). As many have said its the big spectacles that get people out to the cinema. The trick is for good spectacle (quality) and that is what Cameron is damn good at, making event films that at least have some substance and a brain. We are talking about very different directors here dude, Cameron cant do what Scorsese can, but you can be damn sure Scorcese cant do what Cameron can...So when im in the mood for epic action sci-fi that pushes the fx envelope, I ll go to Cameron...
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future of cinema?? Back away from the crack pipe my friend....lol
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fanboyish an idea, like that batman, alien, predater thing. I would much more hope that Cameron just builds a completely original sci-fi universe. Though your idea of the RDA trying to colonize a planet of really hostile aliens (maybe even more technologically advanced) that puts the human race in danger and leads to them seeking the help of the Na'vi or other alien races to help them sounds pretty sweet imho.....
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Yeah, whatever, who gives a fuck?
Woke up this morning and my phone's off the hook because the fucking Arabs oversold Dubai and it's gouging the shit out of the Black Friday projections. I got time for underpants for ten-foot blue people...sheesh.
But speaking of financial analysis, why don't you address my query from far above that you and the rest of your cherry-picking committee not-so-cunningly sidestepped...bigger box office take in US or abroad? Which, and why?
Or should we stay on the topic of underwear? -
yea I remember reading that the sequals would take place on other planets, awesome if true but I hope he does Battle Angel first, and your right on about the scriptment, I'm sure there is something about the antibiotic properties of some of the plants on Pandora, fuck didn't most of our medicines start of as plants on this planet? And yea my nephews are loving what their seeing, they were saying things like "wow is that real" and "are the aliens the goodies, I'd rather be an alien like him (jake)" And when they realised they could buy an Amp suit and Scorpion toys they were giddy as fuck. These kids are little bastards too, mostly not good boys at all! I fully expect at least 2 of them to be in jail by the time their 18!. My brothers a dickhead who lets them watch pretty much any movie, (which I can't really condem fully, as I was as a child too), they love the Terminators and anything else with Arnie in. Last year we caught the 5/6 year old in the bathroom trying to shave his eyebrows he said he wanted to be like the robot John Kimble!
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Purportedly they'd be about the exploration of other planets in alpha centauri, using different types of Avatar. That would be an interesting play on the title - characters, aliens and human beings, able to inhabit all types of alter-ego. Since Na'vi/human DNA meshes can be done so easily, I expect that the technology exist in this future world to apply it to other life-forms a s well.Of course, the sequel could also explore Pandora's oceans (it has earth sized oceans as seen in one of the featurettes) or underground cave systems. I just hope Cameron doesn't do something like that and then some idiot starts accusing him of ripping off the planet core in the phantom menace. I think Pandora even has polar regions.Personally, I would like him to tackle Battle Angel next, and get the first entry in both trilogies out of the way first. It remains to be seen what order he would tackle all these proposed sequels in. There's also the small matter of the Forbidden Planet remake - itself proposed as a trilogy, Heavy Metal, and also non sci-fi projects like The Dive and Ghosts of Vesuvius, should he opt to do them. Should all be complete by the year 2050 IMO.
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Nov 27, 2009 11:20:03 AM CST
Has anyone read Battle Angel, the manga series?
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Apparently Cameron's idea is to collapse the first 3 books into the first movie, plus the motorball story (which appears later) will be pulled into it as well. I have never read it, so I'm not sure what that all means in terms of how he's going to structure things.
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I've read only a couple of the Battle Angel series, 2-4 and 5 something like that, a bad order I remember that much, The motorball one I remember being amazing and would be brilliant on film. I really hope he makes it someday.
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Only the midnight showing on December 17th, which has already sold out. Tickets are available for the LieMax screens, but who would want those.
The tickets should be going on sale any day now. So, check Fandango and Movietickets dot com daily. -
but i do like the concept of the avatar sequel,which Turd described.i hope it will become a huge hit,in order these sequels to happen.
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question? but i will have to answer it tomorrow since i have to go now.cheers.
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question? but i will have to answer it tomorrow since i have to go now.cheers.
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its pretty good and yes i am pretty sure he could compress the core story of the 3 books,into one movie.u dont have to make it a movie trilogy.
btw u can download and read the manga books from the usual places. -
It wasn't my point that these won't get made, but Titanic stole all the thunder. But promoting big movies like Avatar will only mean more big movies. That's the way studios work, period. As for Boogie Nights, all I meant was that whenn I saw it, I saw a vital, interesting movie by a director I immediately wanted to see more of. But whatever. Jsut realize that people have different tastses, and for some it's not all about technology.
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most likely in it's 2D version.
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but, his films are not usually wide platform releases. They don't play over 2000 screens in the U.S. Since he's not making action pictures and his films are more character driven it makes more sense for his movies to 'push the envelope' as there is much less at riskWhat might be interesting is if he finds something valuable in 3D technology and uses it for a film.
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avatar seems like its missing the mark. this movie seems to be aimed at a demographic that has no interest in scifi action. why are they marketing this movie as being "from the director of titanic". seems very silly.
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that gimmick didnt work in the 1950's. why would it work now?
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and no substance. i want a good story and dialogue. not a lot of expensive cgi. this movie makes me worry that scifi movies wont get made in the future because of how muck money avatar is going to lose. studios will be afraid to venture into scifi because they will think that it takes 500 million to make a scifi movie and they dont want to take the risk.
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Hey freidn, how you doing? Me, i'm not too bad. I loved watching the Cameron's interview. He was blassed with a really good and informed interviewer whioch made the right questions, and Cameron delivered very smart and informed answers. Contrary to many, i always though that Cameron is a pretty level headed guy concernting his talk about his movies, and what he wants them to be. He always looked to me as not obnly smart, but also, and this is very important, CULTURED. And this is one of the things that makes Cameron so different from the pack of hacks that copy him and make a poor showof themselves, hacks like Jar Jar Abrams, Michael Bay, Stephen Somners, Len Wiseman and the like. All this hacks are technological savvy but they have an incredible lack of culture, of cultural references. How many of those assclowns know who Rudyard Kipling was? And yet, Cameron references him as what certainly must be one of his big influences of Avatar. Cameron also referes, indirectly, to Joseph Conrad, who was, in many ways, the desilusioned version of Kipling.I'm still cautiosly optimistic about this movie because that's how i operate, that's what all this business of watching movies and seeing the hype and what it can done to a movie. but still, i give Cameron his due: the man knows his shit. He walks the walk, and he talsk the talk.The same i can say for the score by James Cameron. Of the thing i know with great certainty i'll hate about Avatar will be the score. And the samples given in that other talkback, it proved to me that again Horner made one of his typical derivative piece of shit score, this time ripping Adiemus,m because nothing says alieness more then PS pseudo-etnic Adiemus bullshit, right? And the least said about the fucking song, the better. Really, let's not talk about it, just thinking about it in passing gives me gases!So, my veredict so far is: Hopefully a pretty good movie with a fucking shitty score.
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it won't stop studios from making SF movies. It is arguably one of the most consistently reliable genres to generate profit. Seriously, the budget is $238 million NOT including advertising. A disaster picture like "2012" (not to mention a disastrous picture like "Transformer's 2") cost $200 million dollars NOT including advertising.If you suddenly applied marketing budgets to those movies they would also be in the $400-$500 million dollar range. Event movies are designed to generate maximum profit for years and years. In that respect "Avatar" is no different.
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Nov 27, 2009 2:23:34 PM CST
BurnHollywood, STUPID FUCKING ARABS, GEE, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT
by tehcreepythinman
That building a 80 BILLION DOLLAR resort for rich cocksuckers in the middle of a fucking desert in the asshole of the world would come crashing down. I look forward to the day that the oil runs out so we can leave those mongrels to their camel fucking.
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You just have to remove the spaces that this site automatically adds to any link.
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Ahh that was good. My eye-balls are pleased.
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You know who you are.Because if you like Transformers 2 and any other Bay movies then your opinion about movies means jack shit and should not be taken seriously . It seems like Cameron's fury cartoon appeals to the Michael Bay crowd (ADHD 13 year old mouth breathers who are amazed by CGI and explosions) Looks like Avatar could use a better class of fans.
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Not many, I assume.
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It was like the book - a punch in the gut. Very good.
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What's wrong with a film maker wanting to 'dissolve' the screen so that we see a movie the way we see life every day?I look around and I experience depth perception. Are the signals travelling along my optic nerve a gimmick?
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So Harry, I see you're quote is on the DVD/Blu-Ray cover of Paranormal Activity. Sad. The quote that is. Well,a actually, the movie as well.
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... every time I hear about THE ROAD, it makes me picture some kind of KIDS IN HTE HALL skit for a movie called THE ROAD that is nothing but a dude standing by a road and nothing happens. Sort of like the "Lopez! Lopez! Lopex!" skit.But from what I hear, the actual movie isn't too far removed from that.
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I'm going to give AVATAR a chance. Your knowledge on here really did convince me, like I said. If you really believe as strongly as you do that Cameron isn't compromising and isn't making changes to his vision to please the studio, well, I'll believe it.It's hard to retain optimism about a lot of this kind of thing. I'm a regular reader of FANGORIA, and there was this big huge interview with McG about TERMINATOR: SALVATION in which he claimed that the studio had told him he could make TERMINATOR: SALVATION -any- way he wanted - R, PG, PG-13, with no limit on content. However, it was just by some happenstance miracle it ended up not being 'R' and being PG-13. *cough*BULLSHIT*cough*.I'll give the benefit of doubt to you and to Cameron on AVATAR, and I will see it now, but don't let that give you the impression you're out of your end of the bargain! YOU'RE IN IT TO WIN IT! :)
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Yep, that's a thread in which I participated. And I still think people who illegally download movies are stealing. It's my viewpoint.
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Did Putzatzu work, or should I have gone with Shiatzu as I thought I maybe should've?
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... did you ever conceive that I might be a more complex person than just someone you can peg down to one thing or another? That I can have a debate one way about one subject and a different way about something else. I'm pretty absolute and resolute that people who create entertainment content should be paid for their work. I think you'd find most people who actually work in Hollywood and whose lives and livelihoods rely on paid-for content would agree. Ask the most famous directors and producers - tell me what they think.
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Don't worry about Doc. Doc hates everyone that enjoys audience pleasing movies.
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Of course, when 'moving pictures' came out they were described as a 'gimmick', then 'talkies' another 'gimmick', color 'gimmick' et al...
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as does Christopher Nolan. It's just that they don't make idiotic or lazy movies that pander to the lowest common denominator thinking that infests many mainstream blockbusters of which "Transformers 2" is a prominent example, I'm afraid.
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y did u not help assimovlives do the 'rumpy humpy' with his caprine charges? he said they practically sucked him dry. signed: your friend
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u need 2 c a doctor, its not normal for a 13 year old cunt to be on the rag so much. also, you can get a lollipop, then may b u wont be so bitter. k. signed: your friend
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No, you're just an elitest.
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blaks statement about "Transformers 2" being a prominent example of "idiotic or lazy movies that pander to the lowest common denominator thinking that infests many mainstream blockbusters" makes blak elitist exactly? Just sounds like good ol' common sense to me.
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yet you fuckers CONSTANTLY compare it to movies like District 9 to make your smug ass comments.
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"TF2" has serious writing (structure/characterization) and directing issues (badly staged action/one note performances) that actually prevented me from being engaged in the story, on any level. It's just really frustrating to see the sheer amount of craftsmanship in a movie at that budget level misused so poorly. I mean, a tonne of people aren't thrilled with J.J. Abrams "Star Trek" or "MI:3" but at least the stories are coherent (if flawed, I admit). He keeps the pace moving and gives enough characterization that you can understand the characters motives. Maybe after the movie, you can break down the flaws, but usually not during the movie.The cinematography and sound design of "TF2" were top notch. But, I actually dozed off on the last climactic action scene, I'm embarrassed to say. I mean, I haven't done that since "Ultraviolet".
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Here's the thing. I don't think it was any worse than any other stupid blockbuster extravaganza. What kept me from enjoying it totally was that Optimus Prime is actually one of my biggest life-heroes, and I am just coming out not in geekness here but in totally serious life-affirming reality. When I was growing up, Optimus Prime was actually someone I admired, a character I wanted to be like. When other kids said What Would Jesus Do? I was saying What Would Optimus Do? You can laugh at me all you want, but I am putting my heart out on this and I am 100 percent serious. Anyway, the thing about Optimus to me was that ultimately, no matter how rigid his belief in virtue was, nor how seriously he fought against evil - he was always reluctant to fight. He did not WANT violence. He wanted peace with Megatron, with the humans, with everybody. He was the perfect reluctant hero and leader, and it is always the reluctant heroes who make the best leaders - those who do not crave power.But in REVENGE OF THE FALLEN Optimus acts like a fucking psycho. He grabs Decepticons - living beings, remember, to his world and culture - and tears their heads off, guts them, shoots them when they're down and cracks wise about how he's fucking up their shit. I really found this to be unpleasant, seeing one of my life's biggest heroes acting all psycho like the goddamn Punisher instead of the ultimate hero I admired my whole life. His grossly out-of-character (to me) behavior is what ultimately kept ROTF from total enjoyment by me. As it was, though, it was still fun. And I found the plot to make perfect sense - never understood how it was all-fired complex. The Fallen is exiled for wanting to grab power from inhabited worlds when the Primes refuse, so he hangs out and bides his time to get revenge on the world that cost him (Earth). Earth wants the 'bots gone, the Decepticons want to activate the engine to get the power. The Cube piece holds the key to where it is, so they go after Spike. There's a big fight. It's not complicated.
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the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
So, as Einstein would probably agree, popularity is in no way an accurate barometer of worth. Barry fuckin Manilow has sold MILLIONS and MILLIONS of albums. Does this mean he rocks or is interesting in any way whatsoever? I don't fucking think so brotha'. If that makes me elitist..Fantastic! Cause that Bay guy just blows goats in every way conceivable.
And I've never said shit about District 9, as I haven't seen it yet. Looking forward to it actually..just haven't found the time. -
you guys came up with for sequals are damn cool. But thats what is so potentially cool about the possibility of this sci-fi universe Cameron is creating. It could really just go anywhere, there are so many interesting and cool ideas that he could use imho. But as you say it would be really nice to finally see him do Battle Angel Alita. I have never read the manga, but it does sound pretty damn cool. Did anyone ever see the concept art for Battle Angel Alita that was on Marketsaw.com? It was pretty awsome (you can find it in their archive if you look)...So what is Murderbal guys?
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Heres a little video someone made years ago now so it's showing it's age of a Motorball Tournament, I forget why exactly Alita joins up in the comics, but I remember it being full of great race characters
http://tinyurl.com/5wy2ea -
dear god that movie was the single biggest flaming piece of dogshit since batman and robin...just fucking awful.
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I noticed in that Wired article, there was alot of comparing, either intentional or not, to what Lucas did by creating a universe, among others the whole Pandorapedia thing, where someone brought him the Star Wars galactica? and he said "we'll do better" so yea I get a feeling he wants to expand this universe. Each movie with a new Avatar/Alien Species sounds good, but could be hard to base the story just around that each time.
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—it's just incoherent, for me at least. Part of the problem is that there isn't any real explanation of the Autobots history. The flashbacks to their world don't makes sense. How exactly does their society work? What do these creatures really want? If these beings travelled for millions of light years, what are the implications of their technology? If they're ancient (I'd guess a few million years old) how do they understand the universe?I mean if we break down the idea of a 'living machine' (Cue debate between Ray Kurzweil and a selection of brilliant futurists, SF writers and new age visionaries on the topic) we come to some pretty intense philosophical questions about 'the human machine,' 'predestination,' and 'religion'— not to mention the idea of actual life on other planets. The existence of living machines threaten ideas of what it truly means to be human. Is this a prelude to the next evolutionary step in humanity?So, let's start there and take those ideas into account—you could set up drama between opposing human factions and contrast that against the factions of The Autobots fighting their rivals The Deceptacons. By boiling down the idea to it's basic premise you could make a fast paced action film that offers something much similar to 'Neon Genesis Evangelion' only it could be rooted in the same kind of pseudo-science that Cameron uses as the basis of his more outlandish SF material. But, you could give the audience something to care about and consider while delivering wall-to-wall action.
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It seemed to suggest the Autobots and Decepticons were created by the Cube, which was in turn created by some master group that takes the place of God for them - presumeably to build Cybertron for some reason. I always figured the incomplete Cybertron shown in all the establishing shots on the old show was meant to someday be finished and to transform into something godawful important. I think the Autos and Decepts are based on the idea of free-will vs. fascism/statism.
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SAG got me to thinking about it, and the fact of it having so many more recognized and accepted design and story elements than AVATAR. It also has an established fan-base (so no butthurt cries about 'originality' here). If Cameron had done BATTLE ANGEL first, and assuming that this alternate timeline BATTLE ANGEL fucking ruled (which I'm sure it did, as Big Jim likely 'owns' it in many of the other countless dimensions beyond our own...who knows maybe even some of you guys are actually filmmakers in some of them), people might of trusted him and his AVATAR concept a fuckload more than they have so far.
sigh...if only Media Messiah were here to tell us what his sources have revealed about these matters. -
but, since HUMANS are who the story is about, wouldn't it be easier to contrast the ideas of free-will against a fully realized alien society? I mean, the hierarchy of these robots aren't explained. Why does everyone follow Optimus Prime? Because his voice is "bringing sexy back"? Also, if it's possible that the next state of human evolution may involve adapting man-made tech onto our bodies, and these are sentient machines, then what are the implications of the Cube in relation to humans? How about 'the All-Spark'? If these robots can transform into a 'duplicate human' than who can be trusted? Can humanity trust 'The Autobots'?It's just odd. Paul Verhoeven can graft massive amounts of socio-political subtext in his movies, all the while having 'shit blowed-up real good,' that it makes you wonder if anyone ever watched 'Robocop' or 'Total Recall' or 'Starship Troopers.' Now, don't get me wrong, he's producing satire (with a capital 'S') and his films aren't marketed to the 'under 18' crowd, but how is it that he can say so much in 2 hours, that neither 'Transformers' movie could manage in over 4 hours and 40 minutes?
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I believe you just put more thought into that than Bay, Orci, Rogers, Kurtzman, and Kruger all combined ever did or ever will. I most definitely would have preferred your version.
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form the VOLTRON of shit cinema.
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— I always preferred "Robotech" to "Transformers" anyway.
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get in contact with Tobey Maguire's people and tells em you got the ideas man! Quickly, before they hire Orci and Kurtzman!
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You just won the Talkback. You really did. GREATEST AD LIB -EVER-!
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Cameron better do that next! Hell most of the Avatar concept artists were also drawing shit up for Alita! I believe Cameron's plan is to make a trilogy out of Alita too by adapting all the manga before Last Order. Alita is fan-fucking-tastic! Fuck Avatar 2 & 3, Cameron better make Alita 1,2&3 back to back! Save Avatar 2 for when he's ready to push the envelope again. The tech already there to do Battle Angel right! Word is that they're gonna CG a very young photoreal Alita at 12-14 overtop a real actress' performance. And this film will REALLY push Cameron's ability to coreograph fight sequences to the fucking limit! Without everything Cameron's done with Avatar, ding Battle Angel Alita justice to match the manga's energy and pure badassery would be impossible! Now it'll be photoreal and in stereo 3-D to boot! Alita guarantees eye-ball fuckery and then some!
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ever again. All of his movies - fucking suck.
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Nov 28, 2009 1:48:12 AM CST
lockesbrokenleg should never be allowed to speak
by theumpirestrokesbach
ever again. All of his comments - fucking suck.
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Way to be original shit head. Are you Joss Whedon?
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Way to be banal shit head. Are you Troy Duffy?
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...as demonstrated by both this TB and the file-sharing snafu is that you are incapable of perceiving nuance. I never supported file-sharing of materials which have any kind of viable economic value. What I was defending was the notion of downloading material which is IN NO WAY OR FORM available in a commercial medium. You chose to call me a liar and accused me of downloading pretty much everything rather than discuss the matter at hand. You also did so while dealing out huge amounts of abuse.
So fuck you, you faux-reinvented asshole. -
Are you the copyright holder of the non-available material?
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Doc - I HAVE changed. I'm not going to do that sort of thing any more. Live your life. Be happy. I'm sorry if I ever hurt you.
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"…So many opportunities, but he chokes in the second half due to his shoddy, idiotic taste. This story is becoming quite familiar to the fans…"
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Unlike many, i don't think you are a troll. But you are terribly misguided. All Paul Verhoeven's movies sucks? Couldn't you be more wrong? Really, is there any bad movie you don't like and is there any good movie you like?
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No, I'm not the copyright holder, but if the owners of the rights have concluded that there is no money to be made and therefore refuse to release the material, then I'm sure as hell not going to feel guilty about downloading something which isn't costing anybody a dime.
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he waits to see the general consensus in a TB and then posts a quick comment designed to enrage and attack, he's a child best left ignored, I don't know why people even acknowledge him on here, it's so blatant what he's doing. I'll admit sometimes, on very rare occasions though he can be amusing, unlike Nerd_Rage and Tranny.
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It's german in sorry http://tinyurl.com/38xc3b
And the Ikran clip, again sorry if it's been posted
http://tinyurl.com/yhbol3f -
making. But then he does nt even appear to understand what that is. He does nt like The Matrix, District 9, Up ,thinks Vehoeven sucks etc...but he likes TF2....
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doing?
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first of all,no the movie is not going to break any kind of b.o. records.it wont even reach the numbers of TF2 or TDK.
i have a bad feeling that a lot of people wont take the movie very seriously.watching cgi characters interact in human manners and expressing human emotions in a serious,adult way (it even has a love scene),as much as well-crafted and well-directed is,it wont cause the repsonse Cameron is hoping for.the young audience,which the target is mostly targeted at, will mostly laugh with what they see,even with the most serious scenes of the movie.it will be like team america,or a pixar movie for them,rather than something with a more serious tone which tries to invite them in a imaginative world.(like SW did).and that essentially means that the word by mouth will be negative for the movie,and that will hurt the ticket sales.
i dont know how the american market works in xmas period,i dont know how the economic crisis in usa and worldwide will affect the ticket sales,i dont know how even the swine flu is going to affect these sales.and ofc how many 3d cinemas exist in usa and wordwide.thats a very important factor.
i suppose the americans go in cinemas at xmas to usually watch family movies with a bit of christmas spirit.avatar does not belong to that category and if its too violent,the parents might not want to bring their childrens to watch avatar,although it seems that the kids are already enthusiastic with this movie.
so what the above mean? i think the movie is not goint to reach the expectations of Cameron and the studio.i believe it will make about 200m in the usa boxoffice,and about 300m worldwide.i hope i am totally wrong with this,because i do want for the movie to succeed. -
you guys are actually talking and responding to ThusSpakeSpymunk like he's actually a normal... human.
take a step back, geeks. cant you see him for what he is? the guy just keep on pissing on cameron so he can get into the spotlight. and once he got everybody riled up, he pretends to be all civilized and claimed that he's not a troll. and some of you guys actually bought it.
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No, I got a lot of violent shit from people and I realized that maybe the approach I was using, trying to speak 'geek language' and be a Talkbacker Snark wasn't working to get across my points. This way seems to be working a lot better.
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What's up? the closer we get to Avatar's premiere the more I'm allowing myself to get excited. The jadedness of AICN talkback has an insidious way of lingering at the back of one's mind like a malignant tumor but I refuse to allow it to ruin my expectations. Avatar may very well suck moldy yak balls, but I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.
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...is most DEFINITELY a troll. Look at every single talkback he takes part in. There is not one single instance where he takes a majority view or says something which isn't designed to provoke.
He pops in, takes measure of which way the conversation is going, and then post one or two sentences designed to enrage as many people as possible. He then sits back and enjoys the fireworks while giggling and jacking off to his own self-importance.
I'm not exaggerating--look in ANY talkback where he's posted. It's the exact same pattern in every case. -
Uh-huh.
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How am I a troll. You guys haven't talked about Avatar for a dozen posts. Hell, most of these threads turn into a fucking Batman discussion. If you don't like me, stop fucking talking about me. Shit, you sound like an ex.
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The definition of a troll is someone who loiters in discussion boards posting nothing but inflammatory shit in order to provoke a reaction. By that definition you are one of the biggest trolls who ever shambled into talkback, lockes. But you already knew this.
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Doc, you attack me in every fucking thread regardless of what I say. You just don't like anyone. Why are you even here? You don't even work here anymore.
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...I certainly dislike you. I attack you in every thread because you say THE EXACT SAME THING every time.
Your last effort is another perfect example of your trolling. Nine times out of ten your posts contain nothing but (fake) contempt for pretty much every single movie which is considered by consensus to have at least a modicum of merit, yet you post a question about what I'm doing here since I "just don't like anyone". If you weren't a trollish, attention-whoring asshole you'd merely be irony-challenged. See how that works? -
y do u have a hard-on for joss whedon? signed: your friend
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Your names rhyme. Kiss and make up.
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Please don't rope me in on your racist bullshit. I said "fucking arabs", not "Stupid fucking arabs" (Dubai is in the United Arab Emirates...I mistakenly used 'arabs' when the correct term is 'emeriti'...apologies to anyone I might have offended) the same way I would have said "fucking Thais" twelve years ago.
Real estate booms happen...the dummies are the ones who loan these parties the money. One look at today's global stock report will tell you who screwed up this time...I won't elaborate. -
they have another scene from Avatar up, and they have a feauterette with Stan (R.I.P) Winston talking about Stan Winston studios doing design work on the Na'vi. Its short but pretty cool, seems they made life size models of the Na'vi. I am so glad this will be Stan's swan song and not that pos T4....
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i am on it now.
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