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See the Human Tech of AVATAR!
Hey folks, Harry here having just returned from the gloriousness of Werner Herzog's BAD LT... and I'm giddy. Crazy movies like that are way too few and far between... That said, I come home to a new look at the HUMAN TECH of AVATAR featurette... and yeah we all need to see this movie now. Oh - and watch out at your local theaters - there's roving gangs of women laying siege. Tis crazy out there... be strong...
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it reminds me of Fern Gully
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same ol same ol shit for the 500th time? If it does nt appeal to you or interest you then cool beans. But move along, theres nothing of interest to you here...
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I'm really not expecting a "game-changer" anymore.
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That's my only gripe with the movie as of now. I mean, what the hell are those things?!
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And someone please come back and tell me I'm a troll.
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look insane (im talking about those epic looking action set pieces). This film just looks better and better the more we see. I really dont mean any offence to anyone but if that does nt appeal to you then I am not sure how you are a fan of action sci-fi because that looks like the pages of Heavy Metal magazine, and anime come to life. In other words cool and batshit crazy looking in all the best possible ways imho....
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Mechanized tanks shooting missles at aliens and pterodactyls fighting spaceships, it's like cheap claymation from the 70's, lol so gay. They should have made it in stink-o-vision instead of 3D, because it looks stinky lol. Oh and first!!!1
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er imho, I really like the way they control them with those gloves. And the inside of the spaceship looks damn cool too imho, love how there is no artificial gravity....
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At least then the inane script will be less inane. Don't worry, protectors of James Cameron, I'm not a hater, I'll be lined up opening night, wearing 3D goggles over my fucking glasses with the rest of you jackbirds. But ya gotta admit, the dialogue is bad.
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either like more purely cerebal sci-fi or old fashoned sci-fi. But I grew up on that stuff, and I love how Cameron has combined that stuff with the old pulp serial adventure sci-fi of John Carter of Mars....
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Everything sucks, especially the ones ppl think are good. People are so stupid. Especially ppl who make the movies. I hate movies! DANCES WITH SMURFS LOL hey did you see that South Park?
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Nov 19, 2009 11:43:58 PM CST
People are shitting on this because the STORY looks stupid.
by ironhelix
You know, the story? Remember that? Like I have said before, unless they are holding some mind-blowing shit back, then this just doesn't look very good. I can't get excited about all the awesome effects when I feel like I have already heard the story.
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Seriously, every time I think I know whats in store something new gets released and just ups the ante and blows my mind all over again. This movie is without a doubt going to be incredible...a spectacle the likes of which has never been seen before. This monster of a film is gonna take the world by storm.
To everyone who can't find any joy out of this so-far fantastic looking movie...well boy am I glad I'm not you! -
is it witty or sparkling dialouge? Hell no, but from what I have seen of that 4 minute clip it works fine with whats going on on screen. It sounds no different to the dialouge in Aliens or Termintor to me, and there was a lot of great qoutable stuff there despite not being the best ever written....What dialouge should they use? self referencing hipster dialouge ala Tarantino?
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Sully-Avatar vs. the Hammerhead Rhino: "Who's bad? Oh yeah! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout, bitch! That's right, get yo punk ass back to momma!" Yet Cameron obsessed over the texture of the CG-rocks in the background. Sad.
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Nov 19, 2009 11:49:19 PM CST
THAT FOOTAGE HAS RESTORED MY FAITH IN AVATAR....BUT.....
by tehcreepythinman
I seem to keep going back and forth on this movie. The first trailer left me cold and helped me coin the phrase Dances with Thundersmurfs. The second trailer was MUCH better and made it feel like it was going to be epic. But then I saw that footage of Jake talking shit to the blue hammerhead rhino thing and my heart sank because although I think Cameron is a fantastic Director, he just ain’t that great a screenwriter to be honest. The Terminator and Aliens most definitely benefitted from Gail Ann Hurd’s involvement while on Terminator 2 Cameron had William Wisher as his co-Writer. This new featurette still doesn’t sell me on whether Cameron can take the apparent clichés of his story and make them seem fresh but my mind is now at ease that we will, at the very least, see some mindblowing action and spectacle. I don’t think it will have the crossover potential of Titanic but I do believe that it will be a huge hit. I just think that they are making a mistake by releasing it on Dec 18 only because that’s when Titanic was released in 97. This should have staked out next Memorial Day or Independence Day weekend. Having watched The terminator, Aliens and Terminator 2 multiple times, Cameron seems to be a fairly conservative guy when it comes to gore and sex. Yeah, Terminator has some of both but that was because it was being sold as a low budget Sci-fi exploitation flick. Aliens has ZERO sexuality, and if you say Vasquez was hot then you need to hand in your penis to the proper authorities, while there is virtually no blood despite all the violence and intensity. Seriously, watch Aliens then compare it to Robocop or Predator which ladled on the gore. The point, I think, that I’m trying to make is that Cameron seems very middle of the road as a Director. He doesn’t soak the screen with fucking and killing the way Verhoven does nor does he seem capable of lyrical Sci-fi like Aronofsky did with The Fountain. I’m very much looking forward to seeing Avatar but I don’t get the feeling that we’re going to get something that feels as distinctly unique as it would be had either the two previously mentioned Directors made it. Either way well know in about a month.
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watch that have completely original stories? Every first superhero film for example is the same origin story basically. What differs is HOW its told. Fuck dude, Star Wars's story was old and cliched back in 77 already, it was all in how Lucas told it. Same goes for District 9 (alien nation/the fly), and Star Trek (Star wars, how many times have we seen the hero accepting the challenge to be more and become the leader he was always meant to be?).....
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but the story looks half baked. Boy goes undercover for the evil corporation. Boy meets girl, realizes the corporation is evil, leads rebelion. Rebelion succeeds, planet is saved, boy might sacrafice himself in the process. Special effects look amazing but i hope there's a third act i don't foresee
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This does nothing for me. I just don't get the fan hysteria in the fanboy circles... and no I don't hate James Cameron.
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So in a 4 minute scene you focus on 15 seconds of dialogue clearly meant to make the character look like an arrogant ass, and that's all you come away with? Nitpicking anyone? You certainly did a good job of memorizing the so-called "painful" dialogue. Give me a break.
To anyone hating on the story...well first of all you haven't seen the movie. Second of all compare it to Dances with Wolves all you want, but let's not forgot that was a Best Picture winner...not to mention it's 20 years old. Bout time someone took that concept and actually made a cool movie with it. And remember it's not the story but how it's told...Cameron has never sacrificed story for FX, why think this time will be different? -
Nov 19, 2009 11:52:19 PM CST
GUYS LETS NOT HAVE AN AVATAR TALKBACK LETS HAVE A BAD LIEUTENANT
by gwai lo
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There. (Smiles. Puts on Windham Hill music)
Boy, we had a beautiful rain storm today. I had to walk in it to get to work but I loved every drop on my face. It made me feel really good to be alive even though I spent the rest of the day with wet shoes. But I'm not complaining.
Now lets go around the circle and talk about the time when you first realized that James Cameron was a total genius... -
I'm not being a snob here, trust me. I wouldn't want any of the alternatives you suggest either. To me, it just sticks out- takes me out of the experience because it's such an artificial use of phrases. Basically, it's someone (Cameron) trying to inject humor into a scene, but he does it in such an obvious and pained way. Guys like Lucas and Cameron could use some humility and recognize they can't write scripts for shit. Hire someone like Kasdan, or a more current equivalent. It makes a big difference!
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His hand got stuck in the folds of his lard while whacking off over that Calvin Klein emo sparkly fag Vampire wank.
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...the most coherently rational appraisal of Avatar that's been posted to an AICN TB? FACT.
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I'm talking about the dialogue, not the whole movie. I'm looking forward to seeing the film, relax. And no, I didn't memorize the scene, I have it on my computer, I had to download it because FOX was overly protective and had it taken off the site.
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Or maybe Cameron should have appropriated their song Say What You Mean which kicks fucking ass!!! If you haven’t seen that video, Directed by Troma’s Lloyd Kaufman, then head over to YouTube and watch it RIGHT NOW!!!
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I am breathing a sigh of relief here. Jim Cameron is back, friends
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Verhoeven makes subversive movies in the guise of action/adventures. ROBOCOP was a very adult, satirical take on government corruption, ineptitude, corporate greed and human darnkess. His audience was not the 10-15 year-olds of America. Cameron plays to that crowd, the comic-book loving kids who want big action and fantastic imagery. Has Cameron ever tried irony in his movies? No, he plays it all very very straight.
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I hear what your saying about Cameron as a director. It's true he never goes completely over the top/edge like Verhoeven, and he's not the most "artistic" director out there. But he does what he does very well, which is big budget blockbusters. He tells stories that never dumb themselves down like Bay or Sommers, and he has written some fantastic characters and legendary lines. I don't think anyone can deny that Aliens, Terminator, and T2 are top-notch sci-fi films. So I think regardless of what he doesn't do, he knows how to make one hell of a movie. As the featurette points out, everything has to make sense in his movies...he doesn't just throw around half-assed concepts for spectacle sake.
And whether you agree with me or not, I don't think anyone can deny that he's up there with the best of them when it comes to shooting action. That 4 minute scene is all the validation you need for that. People dismissing it because of a few lines of so-so dialogue really seem to be looking for any reason to hate. Sure you can point out 10 seconds of bad in that scene, but then why ignore the 3 minutes and 50 seconds of awesome? And I don't think anyone can deny that the CG is simply amazing. -
people should be happy a movie with some creative brainpower behind it is coming out. this is a rare thing.
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Nov 20, 2009 12:08:00 AM CST
WERNER HERZOG’S AVATAR STARRING KLAUS KINSKI WOULD RULE…….
by tehcreepythinman
The first thing he’d do with his new body is try to fuck everything in sight. He’d spear Sigourney Weaver with his massive blue cock and fill her chest cavity with two gallons of Na’vi cum. If you haven’t read Kinski’s Bio, Kinski Uncut, YOU FUCKING ORDER IT NOW!!! It’s the greatest self penned Bio ever made and hilariously pornographic. Every day, for the last 11 years since I read it, I’ve been sacrificing one white Christian baby in the hope that Satan (aka William Shatner) would see Paul Verhoven make it into a movie.
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Ok, that's fair. I'll readily admit it's not the best dialogue. Still though it's not that far fetched to think an ex-marine would talk like that. I wouldn't even consider it comic-relief, it's nowhere near as ridiculous as any of the shit dialogue Bay litters his movies with. I do get people not really digging it, but compared to how much the scene got right, I don't think it's very noteworthy.
As for Camerons ability as a screenwriter, I have to respectfully disagree. He's written his fair share of corny lines, that's for sure. But how can anyone claim the scripts for Aliens, Terminator, T2, The Abyss, are bad? I'm sorry but a movie cannot be considered great with a bad script. The scripts of those movies are part of the reason there so good. Sure it's not Shakespeare, but they are structured flawlessly, have many quotable lines, and have fleshed out characters (female characters nonetheless, which is rare). I think to say he's a horrible screenwriter because of a few cheesy lines is just way off the mark. -
Be good if video actually worked.
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It's nice to actually be able to discuss the movie intelligently, but unfortunately this won't last. Soon the 3 or 4 losers will show up who feel the need to comment 500 times on how much they hate Avatar and how big of a flop it will be, like anyone gives a shit. It's sad they fail to realize that no matter how many times they say the same things, it doesn't make them any closer to being true. It's a sad cry for attention, and apparently the only way they can feel validation in their sad existences.
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That Cameron is by no means a George Lucas-caliber screenwriter. I jumped the gun a few posts ago. I think the corny stuff works in ALIENS for certain. His script for TERMINATOR was pretty tight, I would rank T2 the lesser of the bunch you mentioned (the John Connor stuff was grating, Furlong didn't help matters with his delivery). As for the ABYSS... to be honest, I've little memory of the dialogue, but nothing stands out as bad per se.
His dialogue in TITANIC is very spotty in places. And that's his most recent film. But, I suppose that works for that genre of film as well, being a soap-opera on a sinking boat, etc. You and CTM identify that Cameron plays to a certain audience with his movies. And that's proven by his scripts. My big concern with AVATAR is that those 15 seconds I identify are a sample of a bigger aspect of the movie's dialogue. But overall, I'm stoked to see this thing. I'm just being honest in my reactions to things thus far. And dialogue aside, I think the visual aspects are staggering in beauty and excitement. That alone gets my $11 (or $15 if its IMAX). -
He delivers the comic book ass kickery with a heavy satirical bent. Not to mention a megafuckton of gore and nudity. His best movie, IMHO, is Spetters. I would highly recommend it.
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Nov 20, 2009 12:22:39 AM CST
I'll say this- imagine the Coen Bros. writing one of these
by yackbacker
Just think about the quirky, human stuff they could inject into these big actioners. It will never happen, but just once I'd like to see a writer who's disciplined in character work get involved with a director/producer who specializes in the big-scale stuff. I'm drawing a blank, but have we seen a collaboration like that before?
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I will absolutely check that shit out.
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It's an Iron Jim SF/ACTION movie with better effects than mortal man deserves (ha), not Shakespeare. Dialogue is incidental. Relax. Enjoy.
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He's a film director, not a fucking train conductor. Who gave him that nickname, if that even is his nickname?
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...in your movie with balls, Iron Jim fans.
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Given to him because working on his movies is like working on a military campaign. Yeesh. I wonder if everyone has to march single-file to the crafts table at lunchtime.
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And I would take him over hacks like Bay, McG and Snyder any fucking day of the week while The Terminator, Aliens and Terminator 2 are GREAT action movies. I just wish that he could bring something to his movies like, say, Danny Boyle did with Sunshine, a movie that I loved despite Captain Crispy the Psycho Killer Third Act Twist which almost derailed that movie. Otherwise it was visionary in a way that none of Cameron’s films have ever been. Cameron is clearly superior to the hack scum I mentioned at the beginning of this paragraph but people like Boyle, Aronofsky and even Verhoven are working at a whole other level. It’s nothing against Cameron, it’s just the way I feel about his work.
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That would be balls-out fun. Again, never happening, but just the idea sounds insanely good in my brain.
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copy and pasting the same stupid ass comments about a movie he hasn't seen yet... well then so can everybody else. At least the negative comments are base in reality and unlike the blind fanboi fantasy land bullshit. People saw the trailers and complained then the fanboi apologist and defenders came and label them all haters and trolls while whining and crying instead of talking about the movie. DO you wonder why they keep it up? All I see is Avatar fans trying to drown out the negative comments by: saying the same shit over and over, making different accounts, blaming Chud, posting multiple single sentence comments to drown out the logical disgust. See how that works? Avatar still looks like shit and Michelle Rodriguez makes me cringe in disgust.
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Avatar. Is. Critic. Proof. Never forget that.....EVER.
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I haven't seen NEW MOON yet. The critic screening was same time as my FANTASTIC MR FOX screening - and seriously... what would you have done?
Wife wants to see it after the initial mania is down - which will probably mean I won't review as once films are released and I see them after the fact - I tend to not review. -
Joel Silver (Lethal Weapon series, Die Hard 1 & 2 among others) Produced it but a lot of shit went down which is why he let himself be un-credited for the film. Silver was trying to buy prestige by working with the Coen’s but his sensibilities clashed with the brothers.
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Since when have the "haters" actually talked about the movie?Seriously. Because if you reverse your statements regarding the "Avatar fans", you basically have the same exact behavior of the typical AICN multi-posting "Avatar hater". (Two of which have been banned, BTW.)
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With Joe Esterhaz, Shane Black and the guys who made Crank 1 & 2 scripting.
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So you can go back to burying your tongue in Faraci’s greasy-sperm-encrusted-gaping-asshole you fucking nimrod chode licker.
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Nov 20, 2009 1:08:56 AM CST
HEADGEEK, NOT SEEING NEW MOON? SO YOU DO HAVE A BRAIN......
by tehcreepythinman
I always figured that you pulled it out of your nose with a coat hanger and ate it.
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http://www.rottentomatoes.com/dor/objects/800318/avatar/videos/avatar_hardware.html Why the FUCKING HELL do we always have to remove spaces on links posted on this fucking site and a godfuckingdamn edit button is long fucking over due Knowles. Time for a fucking upgrade. Kinda like how you get hosed down once in a while to keep the maggots off, otherwise you'd fucking eat them.
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Cameron? Whoa there guys, lay down the crack pipes. I love me some Verhoeven, but unless and untill Cameron makes complete trash (i dont care how much you whacked off to it) like Showgirls, Basic Instinct, or Hollow man then I just cant compare the two. Sorry, but lots of blood, gore and nudity does nt a good director make. And I totally disagree with you about the action, Verhoeven is good, but Cameron is even better at action imho.
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like Cameron where he does back to back action set pieces that all fit and flow from each other completely organically. And Cameron actually pushes the edge of what is possible with fx, Verhoeven just follows...
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I'm actually starting to give a shit. I think this could be a really great flick. This and other featurette's have shown snippets of the character interplay and dialogue scenes - it looks pretty fucking cool. Fingers crossed it all works together. Considering 'Titanic' got an unbelievable amount of shit-canning prior to its release (i recall many a negative talkback here) that didn't seem to affect it's box office much. If people like the story they'll go see it - personally I think Worthington may be the weak link, he'll have to really impress me, which he didn't in 'T: Salvation'. We're being thrown all this hardware and 3D jizzery, what about the fucking cast and the script? I'll reserve my judgement for the finished product.
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I also liked sunshine but that third act pretty much destroys the film imho, so I dont really want Avatar to be like that thanks....
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this new feautrette is even better...consider me sold guys.
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Nov 20, 2009 1:42:27 AM CST
southafricanguy, CAMERON IS DEFINITELY BETTER AT ACTION.....
by tehcreepythinman
But Verhoven, being from Europe, always throws in some satire and irony while Cameron’s films are, although GREAT, very conventional in comparison. I don’t consider one better then the other, it’s just that I love the way the Dirty Dutchman makes fun of corporate culture in Robocop, war in Starship Troopers while also balancing the tease as to whether the events of Total Recall are all in Quaid’s head. I think it’s because Cameron comes off as a hardass where as Verhoven always seems to have a sense of humor about himself. He’s also a filthy bastard. True story; during Preproduction on Basic Instinct, there was a script meet between the films original Producer, Irwin Winkler, the principals, and Verhoven who was coming off the success of Total Recall. The first thing Verhoven said about the script was “How can we put more tits and cunts into it”.
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Nov 20, 2009 1:49:37 AM CST
southafricanguy, IT'S MORE THE FEELING OF SUNSHINE.....
by tehcreepythinman
Sorry for going on about this but I just wish that we could get a Sci-fi movie with the brain melting action of a James Cameron film crossed with the beautiful lyricism of Darren Aronofsky’s The Fountain. The closest we’ve ever gotten is Flesh Gordon.
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Everything sucks and I hate therefor I am.
Seriously, all I hope you people say 'this looks crap' after seeing a poster/trailer/clip don't actually go to see these things. You wouldn't want to be hypocrites now. While I'm not super-hyped for Avatar... It's Jim Cameron doing sci-fi again. IT'S JIM CAMERON DOING SCI-FI AGAIN! -
This has all the recipes for disaster:
Bloated budget, high-concept sci-fi, a new-age mentality complete with anti-Western ideals (Native American parallel anyone?).
Add a jaded audience ready to pick apart a single misplaced pixel to the mix and you got a gigantic flop.
Of course, people were saying that about Titanic too, so WTF do I know?
I'm just happy I'm going to be watching a new Cameron flick in another month. -
and he did not invent smurfs. ffs.
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Nov 20, 2009 2:19:20 AM CST
yodalovesyou, INDY 4 WAS SPIELBERG DOING INDIANA JONES AGAIN....
by tehcreepythinman
Raiders of the Lost Ark is one of my favorite movies and The Beards best, IMHO so, by your own definition, Indy 4 should have been great? What about Phantom Menace? That was Lucas’ first film since Star wars so it should have been awesome, right? Now, Cameron has been away for 12 years. He scripted this on his own. The cast honestly sucks apart from Weaver and Zoe Saldana (but her character is all CGI anyway) and the script/dialogue looks as clichéd as fuck. Having said that, I’m still excited to see this because, as you said, “IT’S JAMES CAMERON DOING SCI-FI AGAIN!” The problem is that people are raising their expectations waaaaaay too fucking high for this movie. I’m hoping for a well made 2+ hours of Sci-fi action goodness and I’m sure Cameron will deliver. I gave up on hype after The Phantom Menace. No movie could have lived up to those expectations but the fact that it was a horrible piece of shit made it’s failure even more crushing and I’m not even that big on Star Wars except for Empire which is a masterpiece as far as I’m concerned.
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http://streamingmovies.ign.com/movies/article/104/1047591/avatar_hardw are_wmvhd.wmv
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You know, that one movie everyone supposedly hated, yet it made 900 mil worldwide?
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this film at the box office. Americans for the most part sympathize with the plight of Native Americans. And it should do well globally where most are against imperialism. People haven't rooted for the cowboys to beat the Indians since Ronald Reagan was in movies.
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so don't ban me.
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Because George Lucas' fat fingers are no where near it. Hopefully it will make as much money. But I doubt it since it's not attached to a previous mega-franchise.
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You're about to learn something. Cameron is kick ass at action.
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1.Sam Worthington (stop puting this guy in EVERY major action movie! You think what? "Oh, he is in Terminator, Titans, Avatar, etc, he must be good!", ps. STAY AWAY FROM MAD MAX 4!!!!), 2. The story: a cripple guy who uses a doll to merge with blue fairies in a planet called Pandora? Oh, and military bad guys! And they use mechs? Pffft..., 3. Michelle (generic tough girl) Rodrigues, 4. The hype created by James Cameron. It was a shitty concept 10 years ago, it still is now.
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Nov 20, 2009 3:43:38 AM CST
Nerd Rage, I LIKE SEEING INDIANS GETTING SLAUGHTERED.....
by tehcreepythinman
I fucking HATE cowboys, sheep fucking faggots, but I get an intense satisfaction out of watching a bunch of unwashed savages getting massacred and their women violated. “Oh Indians are soo in touch with nature BLAH BLAH FUCKING BALH” because, yeah, soap and toilet paper are really fucking overrated, RIGHT KNOWLES?! Fuck progress and technology. Fuck science. Fuck education. I’m sure the fucking ignorant mongoloids could sure create a great fucking teepee while their space program consists of throwing rocks in the air. For all their nobility, it didn’t save them from smallpox or fetal alcohol syndrome once they became familiar with the white mans fermented beverage. Maybe this is why the Na’vi look like Indian children who’s parents are degenerate fucking boozers and inbreeding freaks, kinda like the Knowles family tree which doesn’t fork.
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I mean the VFX were in a class by themselves, but geezus, what the hell was THAT film about?
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It's not a shitty concept you turd. It's a freaking amazing idea combining this classic tale with an entire new world which is the perfect springboard for state of the art effects and loads of action, Cameron style. All your arguments reak of yealousy towards people that have succes. Your just a typical bitterd hater. Sad person, go cry now.
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Oh.... yeah, yeah. Talk more "nerdy" with me. "Classic tale with an entire new world which is the perfect springboard for state of the art effects and loads of action, Cameron style..." Bwahahahahahahahh! Get laid, man. Get laid.
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More than enough dude.
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Nov 20, 2009 4:07:07 AM CST
Awesome shot: Navi about to shoot an arrow while flying on top.
by snakecharmer
... of the bird. Sick shot. Love all the shots of helicopter and the gunships. The weird dog looks nasty.
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In storytelling there is a basic structure that you can trace back. If you analyze Shakespeare and his plays, the foundation is Aristole's "Poetics," and that treatise that Aristole wrote 2,500 years ago still resonates on such a human level. There are essential, elemental parts to storytelling and drama. And there's something about "Avatar" that really sort of articulates all of that and gives it an emotional resonance.
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Nov 20, 2009 4:10:10 AM CST
blakindigo, WHAT WAS HOLLOW MAN ABOUT? I'LL TELL YOU.....
by tehcreepythinman
It’s about two hours of my life gone that I will never get back. Great effects and Rhona Mitra’s tits are always welcome but the movie was soo fucking bland that I can’t believe Verhoven Directed it but I guess at that point his career was on the down low after the failure of Showgirls and Starship Troopers. I was disappointed that Sebastian didn’t escape at the end, free to rape and pillage except during the winter when his cock would freeze off since he has to be naked to be completely invisible. There’s an idea for a sequel, HOLLOW MAN IN FLORIDA where Sebastian Caine terrorizes Disney World and finds the secret underground lab where Walt’s Jew hating ass lays frozen along side Hitler’s brain until the stars are right. I think the phrase “Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay” might have actually came from the Necronomicon of which Disney was known to possess a copy.
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I'm ready for some big, brash, epic science fiction.
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Fuck Avatar in its blue furry ass.
Duncan Jones is where it's at now. 'Moon' had brains - this is just dumb expensive, firework, bullshit.
We've seen it all before. -
is the saddest place in the known universe. you're supposed to be filmgeeks, remember?
all you haters are gonna see and enjoy this movie anyways, so what's the point? and why is it that the biggest losers always flock to aintitcool talkbacks? -
Kinski's bio book is mostly fiction, Werner Herzog confirmed it.
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I'm gonna give you guys something to think about that I just recently discovered myself. I, too, am looking forward to Avatar but was always feeling a little deja-vu when thinking about the plotline. Well, then I remembered it! Anybody here ever play the game Unreal? Look it up on wikipedia. It's an uncanny parallel to Avatar. The passive aliens in Unreal are the Nali ... in Avatar they are the Na'vi. Other similarities too. Jim, you plagaristic bastard! Have you no imagination of your own?
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OW you snobby snob ;)
There's no reason to like both. I like the more thought provoking scifi cinema (2001, Moon, Children of Men, Solaris) as well as the action packed themes movies from Cameron. (T1,T2 = fear for nuclear power/war, fear for computer controlled defense systems, message of humanity and hope, faith is what we make it)
Also you have got to admit that Jim is a real scientist geek. No action in his movies (except the comedy true lies) is ever over the top or thought out on scientific basis.
The guy is a genius.
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and thought out on scientific basis
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where are the fucking tickets? i need to watch the movie NOW !!!
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also, the scene in T2 where Miles Dyson is shot and dying with the detonator in his hands when he slowly, slowly stops breathing has got to be one of the most interesting and dramatic cinematic deaths ever caught on celluloid. It has a uniqueness to it, a tragic rhythm and is acted out fabulously!
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dyson's death is one of the highlights of the movie.
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Nov 20, 2009 6:09:19 AM CST
YOU MIGHT AS WELL QUIT TRYING TO POST AVATAR VIDEOS, HARRY...
by sexx ed
... not a one of em has stayed up on your site, my man.
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Everything looks so predictable, so less than average, so crap.... Blue Jar Jar Binks's ?? .....no thanks.....if Cameron's name wasn't attached to this, it would be getting hardly attention at all. $500 million dollars price tag is a FAKE marketing gimmick. They are desperate because Cameron and the Producers both know the CG is some of the worst out of WETA, the script is a grab-fest from other flicks and the acting is stereotyped and predictable. FAIL.
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rumour that Avatar cost 500 mil. If you believe that and think any studio would bankroll a film that expensive by any director, I have some great land in Afghanistan you might like to buy....
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blog where he rightly calls out the idiot that wrote that article reporting the 500 mil budget for shoddy journalism. Apparantly the guy cant do simple math, and he clearly pulls that figure out of his ass....
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Nov 20, 2009 6:49:57 AM CST
Avatar=EPIC WIN=Ingenious combination of elements
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Haters=Fail. Movie rocks and you know it. That's why you're fumbling about in abject desperation, flinging mud like a bunch of hyper-active gibbons. I bet you cunts thought The Matrix was 'original'. All these fucking sources were inspired by Cameron's previous movies anyway. Haters see only what they want.That featurette is incredible. The best battle scenes you'll ever see; I guarantee it. WETA's best CG work ever - they have outdone themselves. Stick jar jar up your filthy asses - you'll find no childish slapstick here. I haven't been this excited for a movie for over 10 years. I think we should change the Gregorian calendar to BA (before Avatar)and AA (after Avatar). This is 1BA. We eneter a new era next month.Oh, and Avatar did NOT cost $500 million - $300 million production cost max. The rest is the media adding marketing costs and R&D costs to create a story. Fail, Avatar hating chimps!!
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pretensious art house film site that can meet your cultured tastes then. Some of us actually like both kind of films, and get that cinema is meant to be just as visceral an experiance as it is a cerebal one. If intellectual wanking is all you want then stick to reading books my friend, because cinema is a visual medium first and foremost last time I checked....
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before? right, and Moon was nothing but pure unadulterated 100% original...except no wait, it was nt either. We saw many of its ideas and this type of film before back in the fucking 70s....
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budget rumour and does nt see it for the attempt to create a story that it is clearly is nt very bright as all you have to do is read the story where the author of the article lists all the costs (which hilariously dont come to 500 mil) and then he magically arrives at the figure of the oh so conveniant rounded off figure of 500 mil. So basically if you believe that story then you lack the ability to do simple math....
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Nov 20, 2009 7:04:55 AM CST
Thaljoben comes form the snob crowd that
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
thinks that only philosophical, so-called 'hard sci fi' is the only legit sci-fi. This is nothing but small minded categorization.Avatar has space opera/Rice Burroughs type qualities but is also replete with hard sci fi concepts just like Cameron's previous sci-fi stuff (T1, T2, Aliens, Abyss, Strange Days). It isn't pure space opera/fantasy like Star Wars, where there are no deferences to science whatsoever. Everything in the Avatar universe is plausible and worked out, not to contains mention intelligent themes. Some of these dickheads don't seem to realize that there are many subgenres of science fiction and a lot of cross-over. They think that anything with some action or metaphor or fantasy elements is for the plebs. In short, they are fucking posers!I like Moon, but Duncan Jones is really just giving us a compendium of his favorite movies thus far. Potential - but not on Cameron's level, not even close. It's ironic that Cameron gets accused of ripping off stuff that was inspired by him anyway (Halo, Matrix Revolutions, etc.)Geeks have short and selective memories. JC's just taking his own concepts and pushing them further than anyone else.
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"not to mention contains intelligent themes"- damn the lack of edit functions here (once again).southafricanguy, they are simply trying to build this thing up, like they did Titanic, by constructing wild stories, in the vain hope of knocking it down. It won't happen, though. Anyway, who gives a fuck what it cost? It's not coming out of my pocket.
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http: // www.youtube. com/watch?v=Bv3lRl8HO9M (remove the spaces) : this looks like a generic computer game, Activision pioneered Mechwarriors years ago..... so what ? WETA DIGITAL has THE WORST VFX producers in the industry.
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The labels being thrown around here are completely worthless. I think the dialogue is bad in some of the clips shown so far. Ooooo! Someone must come to protect this poor little movie from my hate! Get some fucking perspective, kids. Guess what? INDEPENDENCE DAY is a cheesy, dumb movie and I loved it. We can all criticize movies, so relax your sphincters.
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but also about human nature.Granted Avatar looks more like a fantasy movie (what Star Wars really is),than a scifi movie but it has one very important element,that all you seem to ignore,which brings the movie back to the original roots of pulp fiction genre: the AVATAR himself.
guys we have a man,a crippled man,who,with the help of technology,is transferred into an alien body,a very strong,super-human alien body.isnt this a concept worthy for philosophical examination? a crippled mortal,suddenly gaining back not only the ability to walk again,but more than that with his improved abilities,and eventually becoming part of an alien
way of life,part of an alien world so deeply that he reaches the point to face his own humanity and even betray his human comrades?
i believe criticism of the movie being the new Dancing with wolves is unjustified.Cameron is too clever to let his movie fall into this trap of comparings,he is going for something more like that and Jake's Avatar proves just that: the film will have more than just anti-imperialistic/ecological messages and romantic melodrama,it will have food for thought for the scifi geeks.ALWAYS BET ON JIM. -
You're right man, I agree with your comments
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...to get to experience entertainment like this.
Imagine bringing people from the 1800s (or 1900s) and showing them this film.
They would be blown away...speechless. -
They would think it's witchcraft and burn the town down to chase away the evil spirits. I can't believe you condone burning towns down by scaring those good folks nearly to death. Plus, it would be tough to find spots to hook up their wagons to.
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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you are a hater, you actually express yourself without a lot of childiish bullshit, and you make valid points. We can just agree to disagree. Its the lying ignorant twits that irritate me that just repeat rumour and try their best to throw shit in the vain hope that something, anything will stick. I really dont care if you or anyone else like/loves/hates Avatar. But I am not going to suffer fools and genre snobs gladly.....
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here's another way to look at it... the wheelchair bound thing is make complete the idea of the hero as the audience's avatar. we, after all, will be firmly planted in our seats while watching the film. having the hero be confined to a wheelchair will only make us subconsciously embrace that idea.
and then when the hero find his avatar and become fully immersed in the alien world, we, as the audience, will have also accepted him as our avatar, and through the 3D, become fully immersed ourselves in that alien world.
hence the double-layers meaning of the film's title. it's all very calculated. -
Cameron shoots action like no other director in Hollywood. We haven't even gotten a taste of what a full fledged avatar action scene even looks like yet. I just watched true lies and some of those 15 minute action scenes are still impressive even by today's standards.
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Nov 20, 2009 10:48:30 AM CST
Ya Know I figured most haters would identify with Worthingtons c
by mr dark
Being handicapped.. as these haters are obviously handicapped in social, emotional, and intelligence skills..
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Is ultimate fail. Every story is a "kind of story." Having the white boy meet the natives and learn from them is old and has been done terribly (Last Samurai) but this is the first time the white man has literally stepped into the natives shoes.
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and here's an interesting article illustrating Cameron's thoughts on shooting action.James Cameron's Action Attack
James Cameron has branded action movies "chopped salad".
The 'Avatar' director insists that many modern filmmakers try to cram too much into a single scene, making it difficult for an audience to understand - or care - about what is happening to the characters.
He said: "There are two things missing when I watch a lot of action these days.
"One is that I don't care about the characters, and there isn't a lucidity to what is happening - what is the goal, what are these people trying to accomplish?"The other thing that gets ignored is the length of time it takes a virgin pair of eyeballs and visual cortex to take in an image, assimilate it, relate it to the images that have gone before. Lots of action films these days have many small cuts in a sequence. It's just chopped salad."
The 'Titanic' filmmaker says he now uses mirrors to ensure he re-watches each scene he films with fresh approach.
He explained to Total Film magazine: "I'm giving a trick away here, but I just flop the work print in the projector and watch the film in mirror image. You really see where your eyeballs have been conditioned to look in a place, but now it's happening over there."Cameron will not have lost his touch. I bet the action scenes in Avatar will be his best ever - which would put them in the running for the greatest in cinema history, since Cameron is arguably the greatest action director of all time (yes, I know some will throw names like Peckinpah, Woo, McTiernan, even Kurosawa, into the running).
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So WETA has the worst VFX producers in the industry? Really??
Let me go out on a limb here and suggest that your jihad against ANYTHING related to Peter Jackson factors into...well, everything you post here. -
I wasn't thinking of you when I made my last post. I am talking to those knee-jerk people out there who refuse to consider that there are flaws with ALL movies, but none of which negate us from ultimately enjoying the end product. Maybe the debate about the debate is too meta for me, I'll just go back to ignoring those people who cannot read what I'm writing. But you, sir, are a quality guy. I absolutely enjoy your take on things.
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I give Cameron the mantle of greatest action director hands down.
This is gong to be a great time at the movies. Too bad the haters have already painted themselves into a corner based on a few minutes of film. Cameron is going to have these sequences unfold and develop over the course of the film and it's going to be good. These douche bag haters will rave about action in Ninja Assassin yet declare Cameron sucks by viewing a 3 minute trailer. -
...witchcraft - hilarious! You're probably right about that!
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Could someone please translate? I left my Harry Decoder at home today.
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Just saying... it's not quite Eye-F*cking, but it'll do for now. Just think of those 3-D glasses as eye condoms when you get ready to do the deed of watching Avatar.
And I'm willing to bet that a lot of those weapons are retrofitted Halo gear, just like the rifles and alien guns in District 9. Bad-ass. -
its fascinating to see how different filmmakers approach their work
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That looked great. I'm glad Cameron is grounding the whole thing with realistic human technology/weaponry.
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I hope Zoe does that line for fun.
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http://tinyurl.com/ydp7dyg
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i am pretty sure we are going to get plenty of references to his previous films and especially aliens.cameron himself said that avatar is a sum up of his previous works.
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But I'd love to see that line out of Smurfette ...
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http://movies.ign.com/dor/objects/800318/avatar/videos/avatar_hardware.html
You may have to remove some randomly inserted blank spaces to use the link. -
Just realized that Cameron would be the perfect director or producer for a Dune remake.
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Nov 20, 2009 2:24:10 PM CST
Teddy Artery, CAMERON SHOULD PRODUCE A DUNE TRILOGY....
by tehcreepythinman
With Aronofsky Directing and Chris Pine as Paul Atreides.
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Don't the irrationality of the haters here. It's obvious to anyone reading this talkback that you actually posses the ability to cite facts and examples in your debate, whereas the people opposing your viewpoint have only snide comments like "It looks like ass". Wow, very insightful. It's also obvious that you understand the language of film and storytelling which, of course; pisses off your detractors even more. A TB'er like Yackbacker is rare. About 99% of the people talking shit about this movie have nothing but bile to spew instead of a reasoned argument with cited examples. If people want to argue the merit of this film, they should maybe pay more attention to Yackbacker and yourself. THAT'S how you debat film, folks. Now slowly put down the feces, and back away nice and easy....
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And that my friends, is fucking awesome. Dec. 18th can't come soon enough.
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I would add MandrakeRoot and CTM to that list too. They're film loving geeks among the best of them.
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DECEMBER
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True that. Show em how it's done, guys.
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Nov 20, 2009 4:17:37 PM CST
It DOES look like a Jim Burns painting—that is indeed awesome
by blakindigo
Reminds me of Chris Foss also. Extraordinary visual stylists for the time period.
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Top 10 off the top of my head...
James Cameron
Mel Gibson
John McTiernan
Paul Verhoevan
Quentin Tarantino
Ridly Scott
Larry Wachowski
Tony Scott
Kathryn Bigelow
Stephen Hopkins
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I actually need to insert HTML in this forum for formatting? What garbage.
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James Cameron
Mel Gibson
John McTiernan
Paul Verhoevan
Quentin Tarantino
Ridly Scott
Larry Wachowski
Tony Scott
Kathryn Bigelow
Stephen Hopkins -
Ay Dios mio...I'd like to taste her taco-flavored kisses...
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Besides all the death and destruction, I’m hoping that Cameron’s Avatar will be a love story between two people who’s souls connect on a level beyond this superficial reality that surrounds us. It’s easy for two humans to fall in love, even across class and racial barriers. But can a man fall in love with a female from an entirely different species and would he be willing to give it all up to be with her? We’ll know on Dec 18th.
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Lol.
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Nov 20, 2009 4:49:43 PM CST
Just wait for the inter-species sex scene
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
I hope that made it through from the scriptment. I wonder if the audience will buy it - two giant blue aliens getting it on amidst a trippy landscape. Kind of like the car scene in Titanic - except with tendrils and bioluminescent shrubbery.
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for a good pussy.through out history,wars have been made,empires have fallen,people have killed or died for some good pussy.
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...will be secretly creating gerbil and hamster avatars so that he can know how it feels to be shoved up his own butt. Once inside, he will have entered an infinite window, kind of like when John Malkovich climbed into his own Malkovich experience.
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Nov 20, 2009 5:26:43 PM CST
NA'VI FEMALE GENTIALS ARE ON THE BOTTOM OF THEIR FEET....
by tehcreepythinman
So Jake might be surprised when Neytiri starts kicking him in the crotch.
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Nov 20, 2009 5:28:18 PM CST
ominus, THAT'S THE TRUEST THING EVER SAID ON THIS SITE!!!FACT!!!
by tehcreepythinman
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a goldmine if it was developed at present time.it would have unlimited uses,creating a market with infinite consumers ,provided it was accessible to even the middle class.
homosexual people could have the gender body they want,etc
in fact that avatar technonology in the movie,i think that it must be humankinds ultimate achievement since they can defeat death: your body is old and sick? viola we transfer it into a young,healty one until it ages and so on. -
http://tinyurl.com/yd5fp7a
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This is a question that has long haunted me, especially in regards to Star Treks transporters. I’ll get to that later but first, how can you really put someone’s consciousness into another living thing? Wouldn’t you really just be making a copy of yourself and that other body, although it may think exactly the same, would live on while you yourself die? Would you go to sleep and actually wake up and feel the transfer in comparison to how your old body felt? Or do you go to sleep while your copy body wakes up and, although it may think that it’s you, it’s only responding because your synapses and brain matter have been recreated. Same thing with the Star Trek transporters. Your body is broken down by a mathematical formula into energy and recreated somewhere else. Haven’t you essentially been disintegrated and now a Xeroxed copy of you is running around and although it may biologically be you in every way, is it really you or are you gone? It’s the difference between true transfer of consciousness, if that is at all possible, or creating a facsimile.
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This is exactly the way I felt when seeing the 16 minutes in 3-d
It seem like that is what Cameron is hoping for to bridge the gap between the protaganist and the Avatar with the immersion process.
The reason I think your right is when the transferance takes place the change in the visual perception of Jake is noticably different and as he feels the difference therefore so does the audience in viewing the scene it was remarkable the way it was done. I also want to add that I did feel slightly askew after the showing was over and it took a couple of minutes to "come down"
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nice visuals but i lost interest in this when i heard this was camerons JUNO... ill pass..
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u got an e-mail? I wanna run something by ya.
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Nov 20, 2009 6:55:03 PM CST
Michelle Rodriguez - so much hotness wasted on lezbo
by zombieheathledger
just a fuckin' waste of hot cooz, man...
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If you were in the middle of a hotlezbo/bi sandwich with gravy and all the trimmins
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Interview with Lang here with new footage which includes some spoilerific stuff!
tinyurl.com/yhx5zjg -
I'm not the only one who finds her an bit of an ugly annoying fuck am I? Sorry but she looks like a mexican pug dog, and she's one of the things that makes me aprehensive about this movie, that and the ebonic trash talk in the 4 min scene, Worthington comes off like an annoying "wigger"
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I've wanted more Lang since The Hard Way.
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The concept of killing the original during transportation was brought up, in a way, in Michael Crichtons "Timeline". Although it was dealing with time travel, the same would apply to transportation. The original is killed and copied. I think the Avatar is more of a link, and not full transfer of the host to the Avatar, but that's just the impression I get.
As far as the movie, the action looks great, and the tech in the movie looks great. I'm still somewhat leery of the story, but hoping there will be some twists thrown in somewhere. -
By the way, James Cameron invented the concept of mechs.... about 30 or 40 years after the japs.
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John - Paul Young, burger flipper extraordinaire. You’ll recognize me as half my face is burnt off. You see, I don’t give a fucking shit who knows my real name. So if you want to add me as a Facebook friend, you right ahead. Just make sure that you let me know that it's you.
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Christ the dialogue sounds awful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzOUA3z9vA
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readily identifiable as a geeky Na'vi. You figure these clones are so goddamned expensive to make, the scientists went through all the extra trouble of making that poor bastard's 7 foot-tall blue-cat a fucking toolbag afterall. No love for the geeks!
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If this is a corporation running the show, is the military really operating there? Or is this kind of like a soldiers-of-fortune deal? My respect level for Quaritch depends greatly on the answer to this question.
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As far as I can tell... Apparently the Earth is at war with someone and desperately needs resources. These resources are on Pandora and the corporation is a mining company and the military is there to protect them and help them take care of business. WHile Col Quat is the man in charge of his grunts, the man that seems to be officially in charge is the company manager guy and Quatritch's orders are to follow him in order to serve Earth's military needs. At least that's how it seems to me at this point...
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Ribisi's character (his name is "Selfridge" hehe) is such a one-dimensional cunt in all of these clips (with a really strange voice affectation too) that I'm sure there'll be tension between Quatrich and his character. Well, there'll be tension between EVERYONE and Selfridge based on the clips... poor fucking guy- he just really WANTS the "unobtainium." Christ... when you write this out, it takes on a different dimension...
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Either their herd is thinning from banning... or they're begining to sense some coolness of this new footage.
The former no doubt. -
So, Ribisi's character is named "Selfridge." One of history's most famous people with the same name is Harry Gordon Selfridge, an American-born retail magnate, known for founding the British department chain Selfridges. Selfridge was among a prominent group of men who started the post Civil-War department store phenomenon. Among his contemporaries were John Wanamaker, R.H. Macy and Isidore & Nathan Straus. Well, Isidore and his wife Ida Straus were passengers on the RMS Titanic, and both perished. James Cameron would later direct a fictional telling of soft-core porn taking place on the same ship. Moral of the story: department stores are a big deal for Cameron. Fucking guy loves Christmas shopping, I bet.
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and Jack Black.
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I'll be there.
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'Sokay. You sound like a racist "muscle worshipper" anyway. Go off with your bad self.
And if Rodriguez is a dyke, all the better...she can take care of Alice Braga for me while I'm waiting to get another rise... -
Honestly, I've always felt Cameron's Aliens script was incredibly efficient and solid. The characters are almost instantly drawn, engaging and endearing. The tone is consistent with room for human tenderness and gushing testosterone. The relentless intensity lead to many a quotable moment -- the actual words in those moments are not what cause you to quote it, you know.
It's disheartening how many people on these talkbacks think that screenwriting is writing dialogue.
The Titanic script was probably his weakness and I think it did have several problems, but I think Cameron was a bit high on the giddy romance aspect. It was something he never did before, but It sure is hard to slight a movie as successful as that one, isn't it?
See the Abyss for his best romantic writing.
Avatar? A movie like Avatar needs you to feel for the characters and root for the heroes to succeed. The actually plot points that bring you there need to be relatable and solid, and I see nothing to suggest otherwise. If we are being honest, the movies in each of our top ten lists have structure that matches probably at least 10 other movies/comics/books. Movies are visceral and occasionally cerebral but check your top ten. You favor the visceral part most of the time, right?
Avatar could still suck, but I doubt it. -
Nov 20, 2009 11:28:47 PM CST
So, let me get it right here. On this site Avatar Sucks
by lockesbrokenleg
Kevin Smith and Galaxy Quest are gold. Whedon is gold. New Moon blows. Any cartoon aside from Pixar is shit. Community is the highest rated show on TV.
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...And anyone who makes an unkind comment about a movie, however pointed or relevant, is a "hater" or a "troll".
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It may sound racist and I don't really care, Worthington acts like an annoying jock wigger to me, but I don't get the "muscle worshipper" bit?
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Sounds like that "Mexican pug dog" Rodriguez is getting in the way of your view of Stephen Lang...me, I'm into buff Latinas more than buff dudes, but hey, to each his own...
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nothing else matters
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they mention eyeballs getting fucked more than once. Thats a funny good thing me boys.
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Most of the time I really try and want to have civil conversations with other film geeks. Even if we dont like the same thing or just completely disagree does nt mean we have to start hurling childish insults at each other. Why the fuck cant we just have contructive discussion/criticism of the film's we are discussing without resorting to retarded shit like "thundersmurf!"....et al ad naseum...
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read the old 1995 scriptment. Basically, despite what a few of the haters claim, Avatar is not ant-American. The RDA or The Consortium (the huge multi-national company that is mining Pandora) is clearly modeled on the Dutch East India Trading Company, and is an allegory for colonialism and Emperialism. Col Quaritch and the other soldiers are absolutely merceneries working for the RDA's security forces called SECFOR. Hope that helps Yackbacker....
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also have to add Rougeleader66, Turdontherun, creepythinman, cloudrider, and a few others that try to maintain some sense of logic and rationality amongst all lunatic ranting and raving by mongoloid mouth breathers like nerdrage and everyone's favourite stargate fanatic dioxholster etc....
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can never admit to being wrong even long after being proven wrong. I will never forget his infamous "there will be no guns in Avatar!", and then when it was obvious that there were he changed to "they wont be fired!"....anyone thats seen the footage think thats the case?
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Nov 21, 2009 7:21:37 AM CST
I have seen anything of this movie except the
by joey_jo_jo_junior_shabadoo
teaser trailer, and some unavoidable screen shots, which i never let get into focus anyway. And I am EXTREMELY excited and anxious to see this inevitable masterpiece. Hopefully I can avoid the bombardment of TV spots for just 27 more days so I can go in as clueless as possible. Wish me luck.
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much of this talkback in an attempt to avoid spoilers, it does seem to be relatively troll-free for an Avatar TB. Nice.
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Nov 21, 2009 7:31:49 AM CST
I meant "I haven't seen anything of this except"
by joey_jo_jo_junior_shabadoo
not "I have". Sorry for the confusion.
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Alteast we will have a 3+ hour director's cut, right?
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704204304574546051358369012.html
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first you don't know my ethnicity, I could be a half-black, mexican, asian, inuit for all you know, and second I hate Michelle Rodriguez she is a shit actor, with a one track "tough ethnic chick" schtick, Stephen Lang is fuckin great and yea I'd sooner suck his dick than Rodriguez's sorry.
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I'm sure there's enough to go around. I don't agree that Rodriguez is a 'shit actor' but, she does play a 'type,' fairly consistently as do a number of character actors. Maybe that has something to do with the term 'typecasting' which is a dependent on casting director perceptions? (As opposed to 'stereotyping' which is more widespread throughout the industry?)
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If Cameron has gone to such a typecasting route, I'm sure there is alot of other tough chicks that need the break, and I've never seen her good in anything, you guys can't honestly sit there with a straight face and say she's good? Stop typing with your dicks guys she ain't reading this.
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The Cameron worshippers are so devoted to him that if he claimed he could walk on water and made a 3D documentary about it, they would believe him. If he told them to jump out of a plane without a parachute so he could get a certain shot, they would. Avatar will be above average at best, but they'll still talk about it like it was a religious experience. No other film maker commands such blind (almost fanatical) devotion. It's scary.
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Nov 21, 2009 10:25:21 AM CST
Other filmmakers that command blind devotion
by turd_has_risen_from_the_grave
Cameron wouldn't qualify. Characters like Whedon, Smith, Tarantino, etc. are the types that command fanaticism, or at least they did at one point or another in their careers. Cameron is popular but doesn't command that kind of cult-like mentality - he's simply too big and mainstream (in a good way)a director for that. But of course, our friend above sees what he wants. Most of us who are fans here have given rational critiques of why we like him or have faith in him. If people talk about Avatar in those super-positive terms, it'll be because it's actually worthy. Hell, I like True Lies, it's a great old-school action film, but you won't hear folk talking about it like its an all time classic (the terminators or aliens on the other hand). But of course, the haters can't get their heads around this - they have the get-out clause that if Avatar is a box office smash or people are raving about it, it's simply because the masses are sheep, or because the film MUST be average but people won't admit it."Avatar will be above average at best". So you've already formed this pre-emptive judgement have you, and anyone who disagrees with you must be a Cameron zealot? Fucking nonsense. If Avatar dissapoints, we'll be the first to say.Now as for all this palaver about people voicing valid criticisms but still being branded 'haters', this is because most Avatar criticism IS drivel. The 10 % that isn't is simply because those people have probably not read the scriptment, and naturally have some misunderstandings about the story which will be cleared up after they see the film - see the supposed 'Anti-American' screed above. Or they have just not thought hard enough about the premise. Or there may be some 'legit' criticism - I hope Cameron has some shades of grey in this effort, and I'm confident he will just from the featurettes we've seen so far, not simply natives=good, colonists=bad. But whatever, horses for courses.
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The fucking balls on that guy...
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Hilarious. Cameron was actually only a producer of that doc, but it got the fundamentalist evangelist scum up in arms. Therefore it gets my vote even if it was bullshit. And it would have done so even if it wasn't anything to do with Cameron.
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I was hoping for a hard sci-fi film, but:
"Unobtanium" - if that's the actual name it is beyond stupid. Islands floating in the air - this does not belong in sci-fi.
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Bejeezus, I hear the dialogue is up to the usual Jim Cameron standard then. This better be good Hollywood or I'm going to give up watching your movies at theatres and wait for them to appear on TV.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UnobtainiumThe term was also used in the movie "The Core."
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Thanks for the kind words Yackbacker...I had to disappear from this talkback because I knew the incessant blind hate would start and frankly, I just can't even be fucked to read it anymore...it's just laughable.
As for this "cult of Cameron" nonsense...bottom line is Cameron has done great work. He's never really had a failure (although some of his are worse then others, but isn't that always the case?), and this is his first movie in 12 years, first sci-fi movie in even longer. Why wouldn't people be excited about it? People act like those who are stoked to see this movie are blind sheep, like all the sudden having excitement for a movie is a bad thing. Honestly, most the hatred this movie garners seems to be from those who are "too good" for Avatar, or "above the hype". And of course they only feel validated if a successful director like Cameron finally fails. I honestly just feel bad for these people though, and this site is proof that it's a sad time to be a fan of film. -
Cucumber? Football? Are these the latest grunts from the CHUD factory?
Unobtainium is a term used in engineering circles for a rare or imagined material that can solve design problems. Anyone who has read a lot of sci-fi can also tell you it is a popular term in many works.
The Cameron dialogue attack has been gone over before. He is not the most eloquent writer. However, as a previous thread showcased from his "Aliens" script, Cameron is the best at coming up with simple, straight-forward dialogue that serves the purpose of the story. It can be pedestrian, but it can also be endlessly quotable.
Has anyone noticed that Spymunk is busy fawning over "Twilight"? That alone makes his criticism of Avatar, before seeing the movie, moot.
Oh, and "60 Minutes" is having a story on Cameron this Sunday. -
That's not just fantasy bullshit. It's explained in the scriptment and in the film that it's to do with gravitational and magnetic fields. In fact, such properties are actually found in real life in certain regions - cameron is basing it off that and pumping it up to epic sci-fi levels. Nothing in Avatar is scientifically implausible - Cameron doesn't just throw things in there for no reason.ThusAteMySpunk is fawning over Twilight now? ha ha. 'No weapons of any kind' - yes, it really looks like it from the above featurette, doesn't it? What a dickhead.Cameron's dialogue is absolutely fine, especially for genre movies. He's written many quotable lines and exchanges. There are already some in the available footage/featurettes/trailers. He just doesn't write show-off dialogue like Tarantino or Kevin Smith, and thank fuck for that. In fact, most of the 'Cameron can't write dialogue' nonsense dates back to Titanic. I never really heard any criticisms of it before that. He even wrote some great comedy dialogue for True Lies.
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Cameron wrote the line "I'll Be Back" (not Arnold), which is one of the most famous lines in cinema history. Yes, that doesn't cover someone consistently writing great dialogue, but it's worth remembering that that line actually originated from big Jim.
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it figures,if thats the case..
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TRUE LIES sucked ass. I was rooting for the brown people (bad guys) by movie's end.
Oh, right...you mean, "A bunch of people queued up and paid good money for it." Well, I suppose that's true. Still sucked ass. -
and Cameron is in the league of Kubrick and the likes: even his worst movie is better than most of the piece of crap,the rest directors are making.and thats a fact.
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wow and I thought I was supposed to be the racist ;), And True Lies is a great action comedy.
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This is the shit that drives me nuts with Cameron fans...it's not enough to say that the guy's an okay director...now you're giving him credit for entertaining nonsense.
I don't give a shit what the properties of "unobtainium" are, for instance...sending humans 4.5 light years away to collect it for an Earth energy crisis makes as much sense as flying to the UK with a jerry can to buy gasoline. The featurette has a sound clip saying it took just over 5 years to reach Pandora...any idea how much energy it would take to boost a large, manned spacecraft up to 90% of the speed of light for that journey? Hint: more than enough to solve any Earth energy crisis!
He pulled another fast one in THE ABYSS, with that charming bullshit about a liquid oxygen suit. Liquid oxygen or no, Bud's body would still be crushed as flat as a bug...same as if you took a goldfish in a little plastic bag to the same depths. The liquidity of the fluid inside the suit makes no difference unless the pressure is equalized to the 14,500 psi of the sea water outside (I'm going by Marianas Trench pressures), which would kill the suit's occupant anyway. Duh.
AVATAR looks pretty, but it's space opera all the same. You want "hard" SF, watch MOON...that might actually be the first movie to ever feature a mass driver, and Helium 3 actually is abundant on the lunar surface... -
Do yourself a favor and look up the word "irony". TRUE LIES is one of the most notoriously anti-Arab movies ever made, a crypto-fascist wet dream.
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trying to create a world like Avatar, which people need to realise is more of a fantasy scifi, like Star Wars.
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Quit being such a pussy and calling everyone who hasn't drank the KoolAid a "troll"...I already said I'm seeing AVATAR, for the sake of its visuals.
And when Cameron makes a movie as moving as PATHS OF GLORY, or as timelessly subversive as DR. STRANGELOVE or FULL METAL JACKET, maybe I'll buy that stupid Kubrick remark. Until then, I'll admit he's got a gift for pacing and integrating effects.
And TRUE LIES still sucked. -
Visuals can only do so much. I'd wager the horrifying truth at the center of MOON is more potent, emotionally affecting and thought provoking than anything we're likely to see in AVATAR, but we'll see...
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I don't give a shit what the properties of "unobtainium" are, for instance...sending humans 4.5 light years away to collect it for an Earth energy crisis makes as much sense as flying to the UK with a jerry can to buy gasoline.
1.the need of people for first materials to satisfy their basic needs (and greedy) made them,throught out the human story,to travel and explore even the most remote places of the world.
2.even now there are plans for future expoitations of the rich minerals of the asteroids.
3.in avatar earth has depleted its natural sources.traveling in a distant alien planet to obtain a rare mineral with super properties,which is a mean to end a war is not far fetched: the ultimate benefits surpass the initial drawbacks.
The featurette has a sound clip saying it took just over 5 years to reach Pandora...any idea how much energy it would take to boost a large, manned spacecraft up to 90% of the speed of light for that journey? Hint: more than enough to solve any Earth energy crisis!
yes if we use current conventional technology of propulsion.do you know what kind of technology they use in the movie to move their starship? NO. do u know how the theories of physics have advanced and changed in the future world of the movie? NO. they might even have used a nearby wormhole which sent them in Pandora's starsystem,and from there they just used propulsion with the emission of hydrogen to travel to Pandora,which took them 5years to arrive.but thats just speculation,since we havent seen yet the movie or do we?
He pulled another fast one in THE ABYSS, with that charming bullshit about a liquid oxygen suit. Liquid oxygen or no, Bud's body would still be crushed as flat as a bug...same as if you took a goldfish in a little plastic bag to the same depths.
The liquidity of the fluid inside the suit makes no difference unless the pressure is equalized to the 14,500 psi of the sea water outside (I'm going by Marianas Trench pressures), which would kill the suit's occupant anyway. Duh.
first of all the liquid oxygen is a scientific fact,and the scene where the rat breathes it is for REAL.about the water pressure,i dont know how exactly this whole technology is used to bypass the high pressure,but i know this for a fact: goldfished dont live there,but giant squids and other living creatures do live in such big depths.could u tell me how exactly they survive from the high pressure?
AVATAR looks pretty, but it's space opera all the same. You want "hard" SF, watch MOON...that might actually be the first movie to ever feature a mass driver, and Helium 3 actually is abundant on the lunar surface...
nobody said that avatar is hard scifi,everyone is characterize it as epic scifi.is it more fantasy than scifi? i dont know,i have to wait to watch the movie and be a judge of it,but as i already have stated in another post,the avatar by itself is a concept worthy of philosophical exploration,and i am pretty sure Cameron will give us that in his 2.5h movie.its not like he is incapable of that,T1 showed his skills in the genre of scifi.
but u know,at the end who give a FUCK,if his new movie is fantasy and no hc scifi.really who gives a fuck? if u do,please nobody obligates u to go and watch it.sit home and read a scifi book or fuck your hand. -
is one of the best action movies of the 90s.objectively speaking.
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that people mistake "scientific accuracy" for entertainment? Give me a break! Obviously, "The Abyss" is a fantasy—y'know, the movie with the bioluminescent fish people at the end? "Avatar" is a space opera; that's a legitimate sub-genre of SF. Cameron doesn't create "Hard SF"; and sorry "Moon" doesn't work as 'Hard SF' either. It's a great movie, but it's not particularly worth the "Hard" SF label.I do concede that "True Lies" is ridiculous in it's racial stereotyping (almost every asian in the movie is evil? Or barely competent—REALLY DUDE?!), but I think the lions share of the blame goes to the original "La Totale!"Anyway, that aside, "Avatar" is an epic fantasy piece, much like it's inspirations: Edgar Rice Burroughs "John Carter of Mars," and the like.
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since they do have that arab kid in the secret service.and its a movie which jokes itself,that arab leader is like a cartoon character.
and at the end if a movie is racist for having arab terrorists,then all the movies are racists for having whites as the bad people.cheers. -
Yep, ol'Cameron ain't as good as Kubrick, so he must suck. Nobody made any claims about Cameron being an artistic equal to Stanley K, but the comparisons were more about them both being equally obsessive characters, absolutely intent on getting a singular vision on the screen.As for True Lies being 'crypto-fascist'. Did you just miss the fact that True Lies is tongue-in-cheek comedy? Or did Cameron go from espousing liberal sentiments in his other movies to being a right-winger overnight? The Arabs in the movie were just stock Bondian type villains, and plausible bad guys. Ill-judged and insensitive? Perhaps. But if you think that TL was intentionally a 'fascist's wet dream' then you are a fucking moron.
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Not even close to Cameron. Sorry. As I said before, I enjoyed the film, but it's just a greatest hits of 2001 and Silent Running - and looks it.
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Thanks for posting that lengthy repudiation of BurnHollywood's (highly inaccurate) claims of what is scientifically plausible or not. It amazes me when these guys think they are one step ahead of Cameron on these things, when it is in fact they who are misinformed. Cameron has been part of NASA's mars team for fuck's sake, as well as his extensive underwater excursions. For a 'non-scientist' he's quite well respected within the scientific community. In any case, he knows his stuff when it comes to physics and engineering. The point is, the stuff in his movies IS scientifically plausible - ie. it comes from a basis of science and there may be speculative leaps or imaginative sleights-of-hand to fit into a fictional or fantastical story. But it is never just random nonsense as seen in many other hollywood films.
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sent fb request
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I repost my screed from above."(x) thinks that only philosophical, so-called 'hard sci fi' is the only legit sci-fi. This is nothing but small minded categorization.
Avatar has space opera/Rice Burroughs type qualities but is also replete with hard sci fi concepts just like Cameron's previous sci-fi stuff (T1, T2, Aliens, Abyss, Strange Days). It isn't pure space opera/fantasy like Star Wars, where there are no deferences to science whatsoever. Everything in the Avatar universe is plausible and worked out, not to mention contains intelligent themes. Some of these dickheads don't seem to realize that there are many subgenres of science fiction and a lot of cross-over. They think that anything with some action or metaphor or fantasy elements is for the plebs. In short, they are fucking posers!"That about sums it up.
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but, it IS an epic fantasy using SF themes. Cameron's movies ARE SF (excluding "True Lies" and "Titanic"—although arguments have been made that it is about the fetishization of technology) and they have a degree of scientific plausibility.As this is his first foray into 'Space Opera' it will be interesting to place this film within his oeuvre and see how it stacks up.
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Nov 21, 2009 5:15:45 PM CST
It is a cartoon scfi-fi space opera fantasy
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
And I will be there opening night.
Too many folks get hung up on labels. Just enjoy it or don't. -
Stephen Lang and his mech are just looking more badass by the day. Mech-boxing. And that battle between him and the navi is gonna be badass. Bust out his mega-huge combat knife and tries to shank the very skinny navi.
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Nov 21, 2009 8:20:29 PM CST
Star Wars is more SF than you fuckers will ever realize
by lockesbrokenleg
Fuckers.
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Which has connections and may have elements similar to space opera, but is not exactly the same thing.This is partly why the John Carter of Mars comparison is so apt, since that is pretty much the quintessential planetary romance.
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like whats scientifically plausible like they can 100% accuratly predict exactly what tech would be available or what is scientifically possible over a hundred years from now in a work of fiction. At the end of the day, does it matter? The point is that at least compared to most Hollywood films, Cameron does think things through, and includes some degree of scientific possibiity into his sci-fi films.
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Since when did sci-fi become such a limited and narrowly defined genre? There are numerous, and all eqaully valid, sub-genres of sci-fi. Just like any genre for that matter. If you have a particular taste for one type over the other, then so be it, but please get out of here with your snob bullshit. Space Operas are one of the cornerstones of sci-fi and are so popular because they can combine science, tech, action, and dramatics.....
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sake, two completely different types of films. Moon is a really small art house sci-fi film very influenced by 70s stuff like silent running anchored by a single (very good) performance by one actor. Its a good film, but its not an exercise in sci-fi universe/world building useing many elements from anime, heavy metal magazine, and classic adventure sci-fi literature like Dune and John Carter of Mars, with epic action set pieces that Avatar is. You may as well compare Star Wars and Silent Running then. They in any way meant to be the same thing. Geez, even Cameron knows that, remember that he had the rights to do the remake to Solaris, but he gave it to Soderbergh to do because he knew he was wrong for the material....
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was invited to visit Kubrick at his house, where he thought they may just have tea together, Kubrick broke out his copy of True Lies (yes, True Lies!) which he had on film, and made Cameron watch it with him. Kubrick spent a lot of time asking Cameron questions about how things were done etc...So just keep in mind that Kubrick respected Cameron's ability as a film maker...
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imho, but its still a damn good action film, and pretty funny too. It always amazes me that so many totally dont get how touge in cheek its meant to be. Its a parody of the Bond films to an extent...
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Fucking shit.
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True Lies is easily one of the best action films of the 90's along with T2 and Speed. The sequence on the Seven Mile Bridge is a blueprint on how to stage action.
It would prove influencial on future films like Mr. and Mrs. Smith as well as the Brosnan Bond movies.
As far as racism goes, that is bunk as well. The Bond films have made Russians, Haitians, Colombians and Koreans look bad. Yet, you rarely hear complaints about that. Why? They're not meant to be taken seriously. Same goes for cries of misogyny.
True Lies is about gaining trust in a marriage in the most extreme way possible. That is an interesting concept in which to wrap a spy thriller around. For being the "worst" film in Cameron's filmography(Don't bring up Piranha 2), it is pretty damn good. -
fake the na'vi look...someone tell me, how "real" is a 9-ft tall, blue, glowing skinned, tribal warrior alien supposed to look? This is gonna be fantastic escapist fare with mind-blowing action and effects, and passable dialogue and plot-just like every other Cameron film-I can't wait...
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He's a bad actor huh?...tell me, how many oscars has Arnold won? You don't need to be Walken-you just need to be the right guy in the right role at the right time...
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my walken comment was made purely because he has the ability to make any piece of shit he's in instantly watchable-a'la Joe Dirt...
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? I agree with what you say about TL. I actually think its very misunderstood in that so many think its meant to be taken seriously at all. And your point about how the Bond films portray so many other nationalities/ethnic groups yet there is never any complaining is spot on....
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ington, but I will say that him and Anton Yelchin were the only two things that made T4 watchable. The only two actors that actually gave performances and projected any kind of compelling presence. Worthington made Bale (an otherwise excellent actor) look bad imho. Though its as much to do with how much Bale phoned that performance in too. But based on that Im willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, and Cameron has been mostly good at picking the right (you dont always need the best) actor for his movies and getting good performances out of them. for heavens sake he made Tom Arniold funny (and I hate Tom Arnold) and almost likeable....
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why do you still comment? you should leave.
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Since you're a boastful, bullying little shit, let's start with you, little lady:
Points 1 thru 3 of your "rebuttal" are just outlining a premise..."where there's a will, there's a way". That has nothing to do with the argument I'm making, which is that any resource shortages likely to challenge mankind in the next century pale in comparison to interstellar flight...a logical fallacy in the context of a hard SF tale (as Turd fails to understand) but forgivable if we're to take this story as a metaphor for present-day exploitation of Third World resources, which it is (which also means comparisons to FERNGULLY are entirely valid, but that's another argument for another day).
Of course, that you think a trip to the asteroid belt is in any way comparable to a trip to Alpha Centauri clearly demonstrates how oblivious you are to the distances we're discussing. The asteroid belt is 1.5 AU from the Earth...Alpha Centauri is 284,000 AU. I'd say "do the math" but it's probably outside your feeble grasp.
Your follow-up is less compelling: "yes if we use current conventional technology of propulsion.do you know what kind of technology they use in the movie to move their starship? NO. do u know how the theories of physics have advanced and changed in the future world of the movie? NO. they might even have used a nearby wormhole which sent them in Pandora's starsystem,and from there they just used propulsion with the emission of hydrogen to travel to Pandora,which took them 5years to arrive.but thats just speculation,since we havent seen yet the movie or do we?"
You just blew your engine at the starting line, because in order to keep Turd's dream alive, we're trying to keep things within the realm of the physically achievable, remember? Wormholes are, at this point, entirely a theoretical construct; travel through them is entirely conjecture. The same goes for purely hypothetical notions like hyperspace or space/time "warping". Which means that the most likely means of travelling these enormous distances are either a Bussard Ramjet type of fusion drive (which most scientists now consider impractical), or antimatter.
And this is where the logical fallacy kicks in, because generating the needed antimatter (it probably no longer exists in this universe) is outside the realm of a "resource poor" earth.
And as for the rest, which you're apparently conceding...Giant Squids and other such deep sea creatures are specially adapted for the pressures. In fact, they can't survive at our lower pressures. And for the record, the deepest sea dive in a suit ever was a mere 2000 feet...not even close to the depths mentioned in THE ABYSS. Pure fiction. -
...have your turn, do your thing, and swing a few times, but then move on and let others use the swings. Don't just sit there on the swing while other people are trying to get on, even if there are two other swings, move along. Go on the slide, ride the merry-go-round, play in the sandbox, and then leave, but don't hog the swings.
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Re: TRUE LIES, you mean "subjectively speaking", NOT "objectively". Look both words up.
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"Avatar" is a space opera; that's a legitimate sub-genre of SF."
My original point, actually. -
"Nobody made any claims about Cameron being an artistic equal to Stanley K..."
ominus did.
"[MOON was] just a greatest hits of 2001 and Silent Running - and looks it."
Painfully superficial assessment. 2001 was about mankind's progression to its next stage, via an alien assist. SILENT RUNNING was about a desperate ecologists bid to save Earth's last remaining foliage. MOON is about a lonely lunar tech's discovery about the truth of his existence and his eventual fate. I don't see a pattern there at all...they look similar, but they're three completely different stories.
"Thanks for posting that lengthy repudiation of BurnHollywood's (highly inaccurate) claims of what is scientifically plausible or not."
See my reply above. And Cameron is fully aware of when he's stretching the truth...as I understand it, the original AVATAR was set on Mars. Likely not spectacular enough for the studio, so the leap was made to space opera. I don't have a problem with that...I DO have a problem with people who clearly can't distinguish between theory and reality trying to read me the riot act.
As for TRUE LIES...stripped of its cartoonish delivery, the plot is basically about a neglectful husband who's jealousy drives him to intimidate and later endanger his wife's life, then winning her back by killing his way out of the situation and re-asserting his alpha male status.
Mussolini would've loved it. -
Holy Shit...Suns and MoonsLiving together...Mass hysteria!
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that in the year of Star Trek, Terminator Salvation and Transformers 2 that people are still attacking Cameron. Surely on his track record you'd give him the benefit of the doubt until you've at least seen the fucking movie?
Some of you guys deserve the shit the Hollywood studios have been shovelling you. -
from a director that knows how to shoot and edit. As Jan DeBont said at the time of its release: "How do you top that?"
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The whole "avatar" concept is what will kill this film. Cameron should have done an old fashioned humans vs Na'Vi scenario, with Sully (as human) taking the side of the Na'Vi. Sure, it wouldn't be that original, but Cameron would have been still able to say what he wanted to say and the film would have made money. The bottom line is that audiences can only relate to real flesh and blood actors, not CG creations. Take LOTR. Gollum was a sideshow, an interesting distraction only. If Frodo and Sam had been CG characters would the films have been successful? Not a chance. They would have dies on their ass, just as Avatar will die on it's ass.
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Nov 22, 2009 11:21:56 AM CST
Is that why everyone was sobbing at the first 10 mins of UP
by charyoutree
in my theatre?
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I really wish Cameron would have stayed in the realm of the plausible, instead of going the Star Wars/space opera route. A real-world take on space colonization would have been mindblowing I think, as it has never been done properly before... and I would have loved to see it done by James Cameron, rather than just another Star Wars spectacular. Something like what he did with Aliens, but with more respect for the laws of physics (i.e. no marines arriving after a couple of weeks).
In the real world, the biggest obstacles to space colonization are things like distance, time, energy and cost... they are simply enormous. They are so great that the profit motive, and commercial interests are probably not in the picture and cannot drive the plot. So the colony would have to consist of scientists, visionaries, or pioneers. I imagine the conflict would stem from either battling the environment, or the colonists splitting up over ethical differences. Both factions could then vie for the support of the natives... With focus on things like the colony's strained resources and meddling from the Earth (over radio) I think this would have made a better movie. Still, I will take what I can get and watch this movie like the other dorks. -
I hate posting from the scriptment and I don't know if this really will defuse your criticisms or fan them, but here's a quick excerpt about the plan SPOILERISHINTERSTELLAR VEHICLE PROMETHEUS is finishing up a month
long deceleration from its peak velocity of over nine
tenths the speed of light, still pulling 5 gees.
It's a big bastard... half a mile long. Most of that is
engine and fuel, though the fuel tanks are almost empty.
Alpha Centauri is the nearest starsystem to Earth, at 4.5
lightyears away. A lightyear is the distance light
travels in a year, and since light travels 186,000 miles a
second, this is a long way. To get an idea how far this
is, imagine the Earth is a grain of sand in my driveway in
Malibu. On that scale the sun is a cantaloupe 50 feet
away. And Alpha Centauri is in New York.
I'm pointing this out because it's necessary to understand
the kind of energies it takes to get there in any
reasonable amount of time. You have to go really fast.
Almost as fast as the absolute laws of physics permit.
And you have to use more energy to reach that speed (and
then slow back down) than all of human civilization is
currently using in a year. So the bottom line is... the
bottom line. Money. A lot of money.
About a million dollars a pound, to get something from
Pandora back to Earth. The object of the game is not to
go there and mine coal. You want to find things that
don't exist in our solar system at all or are incredibly
rare, and then you want to refine and process those raw
materials, so that what you send back is the finished
product. The least mass for the most buck. So what you
want to do is build up an industrial infrastructure on
Pandora... you want to tame it. You want to civilize it.
And you need workers to do that. Only you can't use
humans, because:
A) They cost too much to bring.
B) They die in 30 seconds without a breathing mask.
So colonization, in the classical sense, won't work. But
wait... you have an indigenous population there. They're
primitive, but they have brains and hands, and maybe they
can be taught to do the things we need done. We can teach
them, and give them cool technology to improve their
lives, so they can be healthy and smart, and can all have
TV, and in return they will be so grateful they'll not
only work in our factories, they'll even build them for
us. -
i think that his movie will be ALMOST everything it claims to be...gamechanger, probably not, but we've all been screaming for some original sci-fi for so long that we should be happy we at least have something new, smurf and ferngully comparisons aside. It just bothers the shit out of me that there are so many original sc-fi books out there and nobody even tries with it. How about Old Man's War? that book was made to be a film-on second thought, after seeing hollywood butcher Philip K. Dick for so long, maybe they should just leave John Scalzi alone...
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Total agreement on the Tom Arnold issue-he totally made True Lies, but that's all you can say about the guy...same goes for Edward Furlong, as annoying as he was, I can't see anyone else playing John Connor back then, but to date, I haven't seen anything else with him that i can even deem watchable
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Has some cool Behind the scenes, interviews with Cameron, and some new footage! tinyurl.com/yfvwh57
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burn personally i would like not to continue the 'dialog' with you,not because what u do is only trolling,but frankly u dont seem to understand what the other guy writes and i dont like to repeat myself.but anyway i ll help you with your today's psycho therapy.ready?
"Points 1 thru 3 of your "rebuttal" are just outlining a premise..."where there's a will, there's a way". That has nothing to do with the argument I'm making, which is that any resource shortages likely to challenge mankind in the next century pale in comparison to interstellar flight...a logical fallacy in the context of a hard SF tale (as Turd fails to understand) but forgivable if we're to take this story as a metaphor for present-day exploitation of Third World resources, which it is (which also means comparisons to FERNGULLY are entirely valid, but that's another argument for another day)."
what the fuck r u talking about? look man what are we talking here is more about economics,than physics.and one of the basic laws of economics is that when there is a need for a product,but the product is in scarce quantity,then the products automatically becomes expensive.and becomes cheap when its quantity surpass the need of the market.right? right.
now lets take the example of oil.in the oil business,discovering a rich oil pocket,does not mean that u will earn money by extracting it,unless the whole process is cheap.there are well known oil pockets all over the world for years now,but they havent yet been exploited because the whole extraction is too expensive.but since nowadays the large oil deposits in middle-east are almost dried up,especially now that China is living its industrial revolution,the need for oil is becoming bigger,thus making the costly to extract oil pockets,PROFITABLE to exploit them.
and what i am saying is not from my imagination,but i know it from first hand because i live in Greece.i think from the 70s,its well know that there are big oil pockets in the aegean archipelagos and in north,terran greece.but the procedures to exploit this oil,have started just now,since before the 00s it was too expensive to extract the oil,the cost was bigger than the profit.
and thats the important thing dear sir,its all about profit and cost.there is a reason in the trailer,u hear Ribisi saying that that RARE (which means small quantities of it) material is worthing 20m $ per kilo.cameron put it there so that idiots like u,can understand that the human went to this planet not because it is a nice tourist attraction,but because it hides great PROFIT despite being far away from earth and a very dangerous place to mine the mineral.
thats the parallel between pandora,the unobtainium and our well know black gold,OIL.got it?
"Of course, that you think a trip to the asteroid belt is in any way comparable to a trip to Alpha Centauri clearly demonstrates how oblivious you are to the distances we're discussing. The asteroid belt is 1.5 AU from the Earth...Alpha Centauri is 284,000 AU. I'd say "do the math" but it's probably outside your feeble grasp."
and your point is? in ancient times,they were making journeys in the far end of the world (america was discovered even before colombus),in a wooden ship and without gps just to trade spice and leathers.distance and danger didnt prevent them from doing this.
but lets ignore the past.then i have another question for you: can u tell me how exactly economics work in the future,so that traveling in space is impossible because its too expensive? i mean yeah now its a bit expensive to travel even in the closest star system,but what about the next century? is it still going to be expensive? do u know it? please enlighten us because if we cant travel in space at some point of our history,then as a humankind are fucked.
'Your follow-up is less compelling: "yes if we use current conventional technology of propulsion.do you know what kind of technology they use in the movie to move their starship? NO. do u know how the theories of physics have advanced and changed in the future world of the movie? NO. they might even have used a nearby wormhole which sent them in Pandora's starsystem,and from there they just used propulsion with the emission of hydrogen to travel to Pandora,which took them 5years to arrive.but thats just speculation,since we havent seen yet the movie or do we?"
"You just blew your engine at the starting line, because in order to keep Turd's dream alive, we're trying to keep things within the realm of the physically achievable, remember? Wormholes are, at this point, entirely a theoretical construct; travel through them is entirely conjecture. The same goes for purely hypothetical notions like hyperspace or space/time "warping". Which means that the most likely means of travelling these enormous distances are either a Bussard Ramjet type of fusion drive (which most scientists now consider impractical), or antimatter."
so according to your logic,even hardcore scifi is not at all scifi,since that genre also uses scientific theories and not scientific facts.poor asimov,all his enormous work he left us,has no value.then why are u accusing avatar of not being hardcore scifi,since even hardcore scifi is not valid either.according to your logic...
DEAR SCIFI WRITERS and DIRECTORS: wait until wormholes have been scientifically proven,and then write your fucking books.
"And as for the rest, which you're apparently conceding...Giant Squids and other such deep sea creatures are specially adapted for the pressures. In fact, they can't survive at our lower pressures. And for the record, the deepest sea dive in a suit ever was a mere 2000 feet...not even close to the depths mentioned in THE ABYSS. Pure fiction."
u mean 2000feet without the oxygen liquid.and thats why cameron put it in the movie.he created Verisimilitude in the movie,using a real technological achievement.thats his ingenuity.
but according to your logic,he should wait for the usarmy,to send someone more than 2000feet in the deep using the liquid,and if the experiment is a success then he should make his Abyss movie.right.
'"Nobody made any claims about Cameron being an artistic equal to Stanley K..."
ominus did.'
nope i didnt say that.what i meant is that Cameron is one of those rare,genius and talented directors where even his worst film is better than most of the crap other directors shoot.i didnt compare him as an artist with Kubrick,since they work on different thematic movies.its pretty obvious isnt it.?
'Re: TRUE LIES, you mean "subjectively speaking", NOT "objectively". Look both words up.'
nope i know what i meant,since i know their definitions.the movie is objectively great, as objectively u are a troll.
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scriptment.its pretty obvious that he has put a lot thought in his movie.cool.
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—but, I think SOME of the points the BurnHollywood makes are valid, albeit limited in regards to science FICTION, the word 'fiction' being the most obvious line. Isn't Cameron creating "…ut forgivable if we're to take this story as a metaphor for present-day exploitation of Third World resources, which it is…" (BurnHollywood's words). Now, I'm at a loss to understand his/her point on why the 'science' of the film is questionable when it is a metaphor for said 'exploitation of third-world' resources. That metaphor is useful and potent; humans continually exploit other humans for profit. The theoretical framework is valid when extrapolating present and past events into the future. People can be 'sick' of one humanities dominant themes but that doesn't make it less real. It just means that if it's too simplistic or it doesn't agree with the current historical record than it fails. Or it means the 'uncomfortable truths' it may suggest are foreign to the viewers experience.
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There is alot in the scriptment that, I hope, would put many peoples fears to rest, like the floating mountains, and if your Avatar dies do you? But I don't really want to give out to much. Plus I think BurnHollywood may just be apprehensive, which can be understandable. He certainly isn't a Nerd_Rage level troll. Hahah still loving the fact he's banned though.
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Geezus. You'd think the friggin' Voight-Kampff was on the fritz again…
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He'd go on a rant about wearing 3D glasses or some shit.
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A movie, would be hard to make. Who would play Kinski?
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The book is mostly fiction, according to Herzog. I mean just the opening chapter was enough to get it 'banned' by the original publisher for a time.
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is unbelievably smoking hot.
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I'm talking about the overall aesthetics of Moon, not the plot. As for the plot and themes themselves, I won't spoil the revelation for anyone here who hasn't seen the movie, but it's painfully obvious and not particularly thought provoking, certainly nothing we haven't seen before in a thousand sci fi tales. Hardly a startling and heart breaking revelation as you surmised above. One doesn't get to hitch their wagons to the greats of so-called 'hard sci-fi' so easily, and thus by design get an automatic repuation of being some uber-intellectual masterwork merely by stepping into those waters, while the so-called 'pop' stylings of Avatar are pretentiously dismissed. Snobbish and shortsighted bullshit.The original version of Avatar was NOT set on Mars. Where the hell you heard that I've no idea. Methinks you've been listening to too much of the conspiracy nuttiness Media Messiah pumps out.True Lies is a satire and send-up of action movies. It's borderline Naked Gun. In fact, it succeeds in those respects where Schwarzenegger's previous movie, Last Action Hero, did not. Therefore, any accusations of sexism and racism (something that categorically DOES NOT exist in any other Cameron movie, with their strong feminist messages and liberal themes)cannot be taken seriously. Arnold's character is a insensitive prig because the movie is playing off the alpha male Bondian fantasies of control. Ditto the cartoonish 'racially insensitive' bad guys seen in a thousand spy movies, boy's own adventures, hell even Indiana Jones. I think this movie, simple action fare though it was, still managed to go over the heads of many, who were too quick to bust out politically correct bullshit without much cause. The movie's also a ton of fun, it marks the end of the golden-era of 80's/early 90's action movies as far as I'm concerned, and really that's all it was - Cameron cutting loose and having fun between more weighty and serious projects. I'd like to see him do something equally purely entertaining and lighthearted in the future actually, if only to let off some steam between his bigger projects.
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Can't wait. 60 minutes does great work.
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if 60 Minutes came on at the scheduled time for once.
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maybe some crossed-signals from back in the day when Cameron was attached to produce/script/maybe direct film or miniseries adaptations of Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy. I remember reading about it way back when I first heard rumblings about Avatar in the mid-90's or so.
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your comments about what qualifies as 'real' science are quite simply attempts at playing semantic tic-tac-toe. I wager you knew perfectly well what I meant. One does not have to test something out by empirical evidence in order for it to qualify. Theory about wormholes or deep sea pressure is still conjecture about scientific ramifications based on plausible scientific principles. That is the point - Cameron is using these ideas fostered in the real world and then stretching them into science fiction territory. That's science FICTION. It COULD possibly happen. That's the foundation of his ideas. The fluid breathing technology in The Abyss was REAL; it was what inspire him to make the movie in the first place. Experimental technology with the key word being 'experimental'. Nobody has actually dived to the bottom of the Cayman Trench to test it, but in theory that's what it was designed to do. And no, Ed Harris would likely not have been flattened due to the pressure - do you not realise that the fluid was actually in his lungs, his internal organs, not just his suit? It has nothing to do with the liquid being the same pressure as the surrounding water. Thus with his lungs filled, they could accomodate the high pressure gas differentials at descending depths. How can you say Cameron pulled a fast one when you don't seem to understand the basic concept of the technology? In any case The Abyss dramatised this proposed concept, and whether its real life application proves to be feasible is quite besides the point; the grounding was in science, of the applied or theoretical kind, not fantastical bullshit pulled out of his ass to cover a shakey story. It was the very kernel of the story itself. Surely you see the difference between all the above and say, Star Wars, where you have sound in space and explosions in vacuum?
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Perhaps this is what BurnHollywood was geting confused with. This was (and hopefully still is) an entirely different Cameron project. But once again, Avatar was always what it was (as everybody who read the treatment in the mid-90's knows), and categorically NOT originally a so-called 'hard sci-fi' tale set on mars, and apparently changed due to studio 'demands'. that's just our mutual friend pulling conjecture out of HIS derriere.
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Nov 22, 2009 6:44:23 PM CST
Aint it cool. Why no Cameron on 60 minutes on the latest news se
by snakecharmer
I would think that would be something people should know about. 60 minutes will put the piece online tomorrow.
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lo..thats like an inbred retard telling me Im not smart. Oh Dixy...I bet I dont suck nearly as much or as hard as you do before your boyfriend (nerdrage?) shoves his lightsaber deep inside your stargate while you jerk off to the numerous posters of richard dean Anderson.....
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I dont think he is a troll. But he is a hypocrite with a ridiculously narrowly defined vie of sci-fi. But both he and you guys are right, Avatar is space opera, its just based on much more plausible science than I think a space opera has ever been done before. But seriously Burn, what the hell is your obsession with the real science? You do know its science-FICTION- at the end of the day. And as others have pointed out, its pointless to argue about things that we cant know over a hundred years from now for heavens sake. But I think you are deluding yourself about the economic aspect of space exploration, and imho, Cameron puts forth a plausible scenario for it in the Avatar scriptment, which was never set on Mars....
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wasn't bad, nothing really revelatory, but I will say that the finished movie footage sure looked nice on my large HD tv
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"Stargate" tripe? Don't even dignify that with a response outside of a *sigh* or a facepalm. So many people are fussing about a movie that isn't even finished (check the article I posted: http://tinyurl.com/y9u2mtf)I mean, a few people have legitimate gripes about what they're seeing or about the vague plot details, but the outright lust to drink the 'hateraide' is unfortunate for supposed film geeks.
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The Avatar media blitz has commenced. Prepare to have your asses fucked. That's right, forget about your eyeballs. You guys are gonna get fucked in the ass, LOL.
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Full interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5737218n&tag=api
Web Extra 1: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736838n&tag=api
Web Extra 2: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736840n&tag=api
Web Extra 3: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736762n&tag=api
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Full interview: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5737218n&tag=api
Web Extra 1: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736838n&tag=api
Web Extra 2: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736840n&tag=api
Web Extra 3: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5736762n&tag=api
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All the world was possible then- Lucas was sitting on the biggest hit of all time... wow, those were the days...
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Along with Johnno, southafricanguy, YackBacker, TehCreepyThinMan, Turd_Has_Risen_From_The_Grave and if I forgot you on here, don't worry—Uncle Cameron will give you a present in 3D coming reeaaal sooon.
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I'm kidding, of course. But if I grow a tail between now and December, I'm suing Cameron.
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wood only contradicting himself. So if we follow his logic, then sci-fi films cant use tech or concepts unless actually proven or in existence?? He does realize then that excludes all sci-fi films, and the genre pretty much cant exist then...Gotta love these hard core "pure" sci-fi guys...
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answer several questions. If you dont like TR because its simply not to your tastes, then thats one thing, but if you are going to accuse it of what you do then please explain..First: considering the pro-feminist, and liberal ideas/views of all Cameron's other films, how does he all of a sudden espouse facist, extreme right wing, and misogynistic ideas/views in this film? Second: Do you have the same problems with all the Bond films and their "negative" portrayals of nationalitiers and ethnic groups? if not, why? Third: Do you accuse films that portray white people as bad people racist? If not, why? and lastly, dont you get that its a spoof of the very things you are accusing it of?.....
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to Kubrick in a negative manner, keep in mind that while Cameron cant do the type of film making Kubrick did, I have also yet to see any film where Kubrick did action set pieces anywhere close to what Cameron can (and I know for a film snob like you thats heresy), but action cinema is no less valid than the qualities you point out. In fact therea very few film makers that can truly do action very well and make it such a visceral experiance. Remember that Kubrick is Cameron's favourite director, and the respect went both ways based on the story I pointed out to you. Kubrick owned a film print of True Lies, he clearly appreciated it and obviously got that its a spoof.....
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Monday at 7. I hate that show, but I'll watch to see what they got.
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Two weeks before the movie and we finally get footage? WHAT THE FUCK! WE SHOULD'VE HAD THIS LAST YEAR! FUUUUCK!
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Star Trek used flare very wisely. Avatar is going to need it too. Abrams was right, it brings more life to the scene
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Christ, you're so daft it's almost funny...let's take a gander at your latest howlers:
"look man what are we talking here is more about economics,than physics.and one of the basic laws of economics is that when there is a need for a product,but the product is in scarce quantity,then the products automatically becomes expensive.and becomes cheap when its quantity surpass the need of the market.right? right."
Fun fact: it very likely rains gasoline on Titan...it definitely rains liquid methane. In any case, Saturn's largest moon is incredibly rich in hydrocarbons. Now, if an economic need trumps physics, as you assert, then we should have giant space tankers on the way there, shouldn't we?
Of course fucking not. Because as much as liquid hydrocarbons are worth, the liquid hydrogen to get it (the cheapest practical space fuel at this point) costs more. The same principal applies to interstellar travel...because the energy must be as tightly packed as possible (antimatter or some form of quark annihilation), there's no aspect of this "unobtainium" that makes it more valuable than the incredibly precious fuel needed to get to Alpha Centauri and back. It's a MacGuffin...synthesizing this hypothetical highly-magnetic compound in a lab would probably be child's play compared with coming up with the fuel needed to get there and back. Don't believe me? NASA actually lists antimatter as being "$62.5 billion PER GRAM" or $2.8 quadrillion per pound...compare that to the "million dollars a pound" estimate for unobtainium from Cameron's scriptment. Even if the price dropped a million fold in the next century, it's still a waste of money.
"now lets take the example of oil.in the oil business,discovering a rich oil pocket,does not mean that u will earn money by extracting it,unless the whole process is cheap.there are well known oil pockets all over the world for years now,but they havent yet been exploited because the whole extraction is too expensive.but since nowadays the large oil deposits in middle-east are almost dried up,especially now that China is living its industrial revolution,the need for oil is becoming bigger,thus making the costly to extract oil pockets,PROFITABLE to exploit them."
You forget that beyond the economic limit for extraction that the market dictates for oil (if it costs more to pump it out then to sell it, it's pointless) there's also an insurmountable PHYSICAL limit (if you're using more energy to pump it out than the crude generates, it's also pointless). Once again, the analogy to interstellar transport is obvious.
"so according to your logic,even hardcore scifi is not at all scifi,since that genre also uses scientific theories and not scientific facts.poor asimov,all his enormous work he left us,has no value.then why are u accusing avatar of not being hardcore scifi,since even hardcore scifi is not valid either.according to your logic..."
Where the fuck did I say that ONLY hard SF has value? This whole debate started because I disagreed with Turd's contention that EVERYTHING in AVATAR is scientifically plausible...it's not, and Cameron (same as Asimov, Lucas, Scott, etc) knows that. LORD OF THE RINGS is off-the-scale implausible, but it doesn't curtail the entertainment value. You need to stop being so hypersensitive and work on your reading comprehension.
What bugs me is that, because somebody hears that Cameron is technically astute, they jump to the conclusion that this means that everything in his movies must be accurate on some level, substituting his movies for actual knowledge. I'm not pissed at Cameron...just dipshits who can't distinguish fact from fiction and are too lazy to crack open a book to sort it out.
"u mean 2000feet without the oxygen liquid.and thats why cameron put it in the movie.he created Verisimilitude in the movie,using a real technological achievement.thats his ingenuity. but according to your logic,he should wait for the usarmy,to send someone more than 2000feet in the deep using the liquid,and if the experiment is a success then he should make his Abyss movie.right."
You're using the word "Verisimilitude" as shorthand for "scientifically implausible" and underscoring my original point. Same as you're stretching the word "plausible" to encompass the purely theoretical. -
points about scientific plausibility, but isnt this really a pointless argument guys? Are nt we just arguing theory here, and educated guesses at best?
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ons films are scientifically plausibe, but as I have said he at least makes an effort to think things out logically and he applies more real science than the vast majority of sci-fi or action film makers imho...
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"As for the plot and themes themselves, I won't spoil the revelation for anyone here who hasn't seen the movie, but it's painfully obvious and not particularly thought provoking, certainly nothing we haven't seen before in a thousand sci fi tales."
A thousand times? Really? Care to name the first ten on that list?
And I'm really not sure you want to go down that path while defending AVATAR (which I'm not particularly attacking...I'm just challenging your bizarre assertion earlier). FERNGULLY. DANCES WITH WOLVES. POCAHONTAS. A MAN CALLED HORSE. THE EMERALD FOREST. ENEMY MINE. Not sure I can come up with a thousand, but I COULD go on at length...
"The original version of Avatar was NOT set on Mars. Where the hell you heard that I've no idea."
I may have to concede that one small point, if only because the lineage is not direct. According to the NEW YORKER interview: "Ten years ago, with Vince Pace, who had worked on “The Abyss,” Cameron started to develop a 3-D camera. He wanted to use it to shoot a dramatic, gritty, realistic Mars movie that would present a compelling case for planetary exploration."
"True Lies is a satire and send-up of action movies."
I didn't find it succeeded, and given that stuff like DIE HARD, LETHAL WEAPON and the bulk of the 007 movies are laughable enough without even being satirized, it seemed like a pointless exercise. Like a number of critics, I consider it the least of his offerings.
"your comments about what qualifies as 'real' science are quite simply attempts at playing semantic tic-tac-toe. I wager you knew perfectly well what I meant. One does not have to test something out by empirical evidence in order for it to qualify."
Then by your lax standards, HARRY POTTER is "scientifically plausible".
"And no, Ed Harris would likely not have been flattened due to the pressure - do you not realise that the fluid was actually in his lungs, his internal organs, not just his suit? It has nothing to do with the liquid being the same pressure as the surrounding water. Thus with his lungs filled, they could accomodate the high pressure gas differentials at descending depths. How can you say Cameron pulled a fast one when you don't seem to understand the basic concept of the technology?"
Not only do I not "understand the basic concept", but apparently, neither does every marine researcher in the world! Maybe you can clue them in with your astounding wisdom so they can dive past that pesky 2000 foot limit.
Conjecture has a habit of getting its ass kicked by reality. -
"Are nt we just arguing theory here, and educated guesses at best?"
Probably.
Apologies for not addressing your concerns, but enough bandwidth and time has been wasted on this topic...
New topic: Anyone else notice that in one of the clips Michelle Rodriguez is wearing Navi war paint and has similarly painted her chopper in their tribal colors? -
usually crafts a 'believable' environment as it pertains to his themes and the fictional setting. There is a distinct 'verisimilitude' in his work; the appearance of a workable science present in the details. He constructs the rules of his world and has a logical through-line that is germane to the themes presented. However implausible his 'science' seems in the 'real world' it's loosely based on current scientific ideas, many of which are highly impractical, if not improbable. But, that doesn't make them unworkable conceits in a dramatic sense."…synthesizing this hypothetical highly-magnetic compound in a lab would probably be child's play compared with coming up with the fuel needed to get there and back…"Absolutely correct, if we're using today's science as a point of comparison. But, this is SPECULATIVE fiction—if faster than light travel (or a close approximation) can somehow exist in this reality (as folding space did for the spice mining in "Dune"), then the cost of mining the 'unobtainium' might be relatively cost effective in "Avatar". It's not much of a stretch. I don't think it's a real issue, because this isn't a 'hard SF' movie.
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wearing war paint to show her siding with the Navi. The best thing about those action set pieces we are being shown is that its really just the tip of the iceberg based on the old scriptment. There should still be some pretty cool stuff we have yet to see
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jealous of the fact that i found true happiness in one single franchise, while you dweebs are still searching for meaning in all that rubbish like AVATAR and 2 Girls 1 Cup
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while AVATAR = Bronze.
btw, STAR WARS = Carbon nanotubes -
talking about? Can anyone translate crazy?....
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I'm actually looking forward to seeing AVATAR. That said, I expect the typical silly/weak Cameron story with bad dialog that's held together by stunning visuals and technical brilliance. Cameron makes popcorn flicks. Very successful, well executed popcorn flicks.
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...to feel very comfortable with the human technology they see." Well they will because we see guns and warships on the news all the time society is pretty much desensitised to it all right now. And please, we've seen robot suits before stop dressing them up just because the effects are almost as good as District 9's. Cameron started the ball rolling in Aliens and now he just can't stop chasing it. It looks good nothing more. It honestly just sounds like Dances With Navi. By the way a Navi is an Irish Ditch Digger.
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When people say things like 'The script looks OK' and 'The story suits what I've seen so far' in defence of the fact that the dialogue and the story (SO FAR) look dull and well trodden can fuck off. For the money spent on this animated movie I want the remains of Shakespeare re-animated with voodoo and forced to type an opus so epic it feels like someones fucking my ears with a mink dildo!
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but you forgot to mention how awesome STARGATE UNIVERSE is! lol
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Nov 23, 2009 9:19:19 AM CST
I LIKE TO BE KISSED WHEN YOU DOING SEX TO ME!!!!!!!!
by dioxholsterreturns
I LIKE TO BE KISSED WHEN YOU DOING SEX TO ME!!!!!!!!
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i mean you must be a complete buffoon to not comprehend the hardcore fact that is so fucking obvious from a 3 MINUTES trailer of a 2.5 HOURS movie,and which is that Cameron is a fucking talentless hack and that his movie Avatar is a fucking unwatchable ripoff which is going to sink in the worldwide box office.
next week: dont miss lead_sharp's winning christmas lottery numbers before the actual christmas lottery.here on the AICN talkbacks,where time-travel is already a reality. -
Nov 23, 2009 10:09:13 AM CST
AVATAR clip that answers the question of what happens...
by burnhollywood
...When Sully is unplugged from his avatar (1:03 mark):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzOUA3z9vA -
"Christ, you're so daft it's almost funny...let's take a gander at your latest howlers:
"look man what are we talking here is more about economics,than physics.and one of the basic laws of economics is that when there is a need for a product,but the product is in scarce quantity,then the products automatically becomes expensive.and becomes cheap when its quantity surpass the need of the market.right? right."
Fun fact: it very likely rains gasoline on Titan...it definitely rains liquid methane. In any case, Saturn's largest moon is incredibly rich in hydrocarbons. Now, if an economic need trumps physics, as you assert, then we should have giant space tankers on the way there, shouldn't we?
Of course fucking not. Because as much as liquid hydrocarbons are worth, the liquid hydrogen to get it (the cheapest practical space fuel at this point) costs more. The same principal applies to interstellar travel...because the energy must be as tightly packed as possible (antimatter or some form of quark annihilation), there's no aspect of this "unobtainium" that makes it more valuable than the incredibly precious fuel needed to get to Alpha Centauri and back. It's a MacGuffin...synthesizing this hypothetical highly-magnetic compound in a lab would probably be child's play compared with coming up with the fuel needed to get there and back. Don't believe me? NASA actually lists antimatter as being "$62.5 billion PER GRAM" or $2.8 quadrillion per pound...compare that to the "million dollars a pound" estimate for unobtainium from Cameron's scriptment. Even if the price dropped a million fold in the next century, it's still a waste of money.""
^^.ofc we can and sometime in the future we will definitely go in Saturn and the other planets of our solar system (provided ofc we wont annihilate our civilization and our planet until then).if the future technology makes those trips to Saturn possible then why cant we exploit that planet?
why the fuck do you think the scientific community is enthusiastic with the undisputed discovery of water on Moon? because we are going to make bases on the moon,which in turn will be used (along with minerals extraction and scientific studies) as space platforms to send starships in mars (since the cost on fuels will be very low) for terraforming and colonization.imagine that.
as u can see,i am giving you facts,things that are being discussed and studied right now that we are talking.you havent even given me the slightest proof that its IMPOSSIBLE to go to Saturn because its too expensive.yes it is NOW,but what about the later? can u prove me that even later we cant travel there because of expenses? i need your proof.
and u keep talking about antimatter.well geez,how about nuclear fusion? which is a lot,lot cheaper as energy production goes (and ecological).we got infinite supplies of the basic materials ,BUT we dont have yet the technology to produce energy with this method.but guess what.a lot of nations spend millions about developing and perfecting this technology.and if we didnt have the greedy bastards who control the fate of this planet,or more importantly those fucking religions like christianity,we would already traveling in the starts.we are 2000years behind as technology goes,now in the last 200years we are picking our pace up.
"now lets take the example of oil.in the oil business,discovering a rich oil pocket,does not mean that u will earn money by extracting it,unless the whole process is cheap.there are well known oil pockets all over the world for years now,but they havent yet been exploited because the whole extraction is too expensive.but since nowadays the large oil deposits in middle-east are almost dried up,especially now that China is living its industrial revolution,the need for oil is becoming bigger,thus making the costly to extract oil pockets,PROFITABLE to exploit them."
You forget that beyond the economic limit for extraction that the market dictates for oil (if it costs more to pump it out then to sell it, it's pointless) there's also an insurmountable PHYSICAL limit (if you're using more energy to pump it out than the crude generates, it's also pointless). Once again, the analogy to interstellar transport is obvious."
^^well dah,thats my point from the start.if there is no profit,then you dont do it,until u get to have profit.what i am still waiting from you,is an answer why exactly the trip in Pandora is so much expensive,that the corporation is never going to make a profit.how exactly comes that conclusion? where did u see it? u use economics and science of the present to show me that this kind of trip is at least unprofitable.and i am asking you to give me a solid proof of that,using the facts of the Avatar's earth era.well?
"so according to your logic,even hardcore scifi is not at all scifi,since that genre also uses scientific theories and not scientific facts.poor asimov,all his enormous work he left us,has no value.then why are u accusing avatar of not being hardcore scifi,since even hardcore scifi is not valid either.according to your logic..."
Where the fuck did I say that ONLY hard SF has value? This whole debate started because I disagreed with Turd's contention that EVERYTHING in AVATAR is scientifically plausible...it's not, and Cameron (same as Asimov, Lucas, Scott, etc) knows that. LORD OF THE RINGS is off-the-scale implausible, but it doesn't curtail the entertainment value. You need to stop being so hypersensitive and work on your reading comprehension.
What bugs me is that, because somebody hears that Cameron is technically astute, they jump to the conclusion that this means that everything in his movies must be accurate on some level, substituting his movies for actual knowledge. I'm not pissed at Cameron...just dipshits who can't distinguish fact from fiction and are too lazy to crack open a book to sort it out."
^^i am sorry mate,but u r wrong.u clearly disqualified Avatar as being scientifically plausible and then continued suggesting us that Avatar is space opera,and we should look elsewhere for hardcore scifi.i dont know about you,but thats sounds to me exactly like saying that only hard scifi (with only scientific facts) is valuable.anyway.
""u mean 2000feet without the oxygen liquid.and thats why cameron put it in the movie.he created Verisimilitude in the movie,using a real technological achievement.thats his ingenuity. but according to your logic,he should wait for the usarmy,to send someone more than 2000feet in the deep using the liquid,and if the experiment is a success then he should make his Abyss movie.right."
You're using the word "Verisimilitude" as shorthand for "scientifically implausible" and underscoring my original point. Same as you're stretching the word "plausible" to encompass the purely theoretical."
^^er i am using it for the opposite.that what happens in the movie is plausible or rather looks real, following the rules that the movie establishes.and u know what,it doesnt have to be necessarily based on real science,as long as it works fine inside the context of the movie.
the important thing in a scifi or fantasy movie,is to establish good rules in its universe and respect those rules.
take for instance that fucking shit the Phantom Menace.old georgie tried to make the concept of the Force to look realistic,using scientific jargon.but that was a stupid mistake,because a rule about the nature of the force was already established in the original SW movie: the force is something that comes from the universal consensus of all living things.something like a spiritual power or whatever.its a simple rule which works successfully in making us believe in the presence of the force inside the context of the movie.we dont give a fuck,if the force deosnt exist in our universe.
cameron on the other ways,tries to make the worlds of his movies more believably,since they are essentially our world,and not a galaxy far far away.thus he does use real scientific theories or facts to establish the rules of his worlds,since its obvious he tries to make them to have a bigger appeal to a more grown up and thinking audience.nobody says that he is perfect with how he implements real science in his fiction movies,but most of the time he does a great job with it,although he could have avoided all this fuss by using some cheap technobubble.but thats not what cameron's art is about,thats not his vision as an artist.
my advice burn is to relax and stop being a nitpicker.go,watch the movie,dont be an asshole and start pinpointing all the scientifically implausible things of movie,try to stay focus on the story and the visuals of the movie,and when u watch it,come here and we can all talk with a more calm and clear mind about the good and the bad parts of the movie? what do u say? -
everything you have said...
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ass, you are in danger of dissapearing all the way up your own asshole. I am not saying anything that I am as a defence of Avatar. I am stating my subjective opinion that the dialouge works just fine for me with what im seeing on screen. Just like your assertion that its all been seen bewfore. So what exactly if robot suits have bben done before? So have guns, guess all film makers better stop useing them from now on hey? Nevermind that mech armour can be and has been done in many very different ways (from battletech to NGE) so there is still plenty of room to do them in a different way on film, like everything. And no it does nt sound like Dances with Navi, because Avatar is heavily inspired by Dune and John Carter of Mars (as cameron has stated numerous times). And both those stories are way older than Dances with Wolves (which btw did not invent this particular type of story)....
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