Ain't It Cool News (

Put Away For Good!!

I am – Hercules!! To the surprise of no one, Fox has cancelled Joss Whedon’s “Dollhouse.” The network still intends to air the remaining 9 of the 13 season-two episodes ordered, the bulk of them in December. Only the (still breathing) Brad Garrett sitcom “‘Til Death” gets worse primetime ratings on the channel. The sci-fi drama’s best second-season ratings were beaten by repeats of “House” and “Bones” over the last two Fridays. “Dollhouse” joins a long list of sci-fi shows that perished soon after moving to Fox’s Friday Death Slot, among them: The Adventures of Brisco County Jr. (1993) MANTIS (1994) Strange Luck (1995) VR.5 (1995) Sliders (1996) Millennium (1996) The Visitor (1997) Harsh Realm (1999) Freakylinks (2000) Dark Angel (2000) The Lone Gunmen (2001) John Doe (2003) Firefly (2003) Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles (2008) The network should maybe think about putting some of its sci-fi shows on another night.
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Readers Talkback
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  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST

    I Weep

    by wickedeve

    Oh, Brisco County, Jr. At least we get to see the rest of the DOLLHOUSE episodes. This show was gaining steam again, but it never seemed to sustain it.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST

    Can't say I will miss it

    by DonsFingerbangThreatLevel

    It never really grabbed my interest the way other Whedon projects did

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST

    sad too see it go

    by blackhole4140

    although now maybe joss can focus on new material not hamstrung by a built in leading actress.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:18 p.m. CST

    Honestly, I'm sort of relieved

    by NoQuarter

    I liked this, but I didn't love it. Now hopefully Whedon can move on to other projects that: a) Aren't on Fox b) Don't star the charismatically-challenged Eliza Dushku

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    I tried watching this, never really liked it.

    by Spice-Orange

    it felt like something you'd catch on TV 1-2am on your network affiliate. Like that "Legend of the Seeker" show. It probably would have done better on Syfy Channel.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:19 p.m. CST

    Smallville is/was better

    by NathanGrey

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:20 p.m. CST


    by godric

    I'm not one who thought the early episodes were terrible, but it definitely took WAY too long to find its feet and become awesome. It was a hard trick to pull off--around 1/3 or 1/2 of the main characters are technically sort of bad guys, but we're meant to sympathise with them. As a result, it was hard to lock on--until Epitaph One. Of course it's being cancelled just as it's getting to be kind of awesome (the last ep was incredible), but I understand Fox. It took too long to get there.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:21 p.m. CST

    Also, I think the takeaway lesson here is that. . .

    by NoQuarter

    . . .what America really wants to see from Joss Whedon is a new show set entirely on Pylea, with a cast featuring all the different members of the Deathwok Clan. That's a real money-maker right there!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:21 p.m. CST


    by IAmLegolas

    This unties him to do something else. No offense, but the whole idea/premise of this show was boring to begin with. And the adding in of ex-Buffy/ex-Angel/ex-Firefly/ex-BSG comes off as stunt casting to reel in the geeks. At the risk of annoying the unwashed masses, I really wish FIREFLY was resusistated, but the cast is all tied up with other shows (which will probably follow the same path as DOLLHOUSE). Well, here's to Whedon finding something new. And stay the hell away from FOX, OK? (Mark Wahlberg voice)

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Silders was on for 42 years

    by Margot Tenenbaum

    the rest of those shows wouldn't have legs no matter what night you put them on. Plus the X-Files built its cult on Friday nights. <p>The 'death slot" is actually good for shows on their way out because it gives their makers an external excuse for their demise.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:22 p.m. CST

    Surprised it lasted this long

    by Stryder

    It certainly got better as the show shifted away from "Job of the Week" plots to actually being ABOUT the Dollhouse, but not enough to make me break Friday night plans. I kept it on my DVR more out of curiosity to see where they'd go with it, rather than getting any real enjoyment from the show. I think it was hard to accept something with such a nihilistic premise. It was an interesting concept that just didn't seem to have the best execution. RIP, Dollhouse. Better luck next time, Joss.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST

    Herc I'm so sorry for your loss....

    by JayLenoWins

    I always thought you were the kingmaker of tv

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:24 p.m. CST

    it was going in a terrific direction

    by filmfanatic1

    Whedon could have tied (or still could tie)in an end-of-the world scenario with the characters; now, who knows? Couldn't Fox just move this to FX?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:26 p.m. CST

    Thanks for reminding me of MillenniuM's...

    by Johnny Smith

    ...premature cancelation, jerk. Thanks a lot. It still stings over ten years later.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Friday Night - WHERE SHOWS GO TO DIE!

    by Squashua

    Screw you, FOX. The show was just getting better than it had been.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:27 p.m. CST

    Joss, you stupid bastard.

    by Rhuragh

    We told you this would happen. We told you that if you went back to Fox, they'd beat you. Again. It's time to seek help. It's time to leave. It's time to find a cable channel that will give you free rein to develop a series and survive without (most of) the pressure of living and dying by Nielsen ratings. Try FX. Try AMC. Try HBO. Try Showtime. Hell, try Sci-fi (although they're almost as stupid as Fox). But for dog's sake, get the fuck away from Fox, because I'm not going to bother watching the next one. I was fine with Dollhouse getting canceled before Epitaph One simply because it was so tepid. Now though, after Epitaph One, cancelation hurts.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Tiring Genre

    by mjstern

    The sexy-agent genre is so tired. Let's move on. Please.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:28 p.m. CST

    Joss Whedon - Sci FI Killer

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:28 p.m. CST

    godric: early episodes were awful

    by growltiger

    I thought I was dyed in the wool fan of all things Whedon and the show lost me after 5 episodes. Of course, it was the sixth episode where things turned around. But I was absent until I heard it got renewed and then I returned and got cut up with the show.<p> I cannot say I am too sad. I really liked the way the story tacked back on course. Although I fear "Epitaph One" was an awesome way to destroy long term interest in the show. So it all ends in the apocalypse, eh? I thought the further adventures of Sarah Connor had that angle covered. Oh, well. Although misguided it was intriguing. But I am glad to have the hour back.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Series have to start with strong clear premise.

    by kabong

    Save the fancy stuff till later in the run. Don't jump around with the concept in the hope that enough viewers will stick with it even though they're not happy about plots or characters. It would be a good idea for the season's scripts to be solidly assembled before the first ep is shot. "Dollhouse" gave the impression that such was not the case. <P> Put the money up front, not promises.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:30 p.m. CST

    I'd llike to see "Freaky Links" again.

    by kabong

    And "Level 9."

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:31 p.m. CST


    by Balls_Cheney

    It's simple. Most, if not all, tv executives figure that the fans of sci-fi and fantasy programming are geeks with no social lives. Therefore these folks would most likely be home on a Friday night instead of out and about getting laid or something. This is why you will always get most sci-fi and fantasy programming on a Friday night. Even the supposedly geek-friendly Syfy Channel is guilty of this; most of their original programming is on that night.... But, if this theory of theirs is true, then why all the cancelled programs.?... Are the geeks out and about getting laid anyway like everyone else?... Hmmm.....

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    And in other news, water is wet and the sky is blue.

    by V'Shael

    We all knew the writing was on the wall for this show. It was as good as cancelled when they decided to pull it from November sweeps and burn the remainder in 2 hour blocks. <p> It's a real shame, because for a while there, this series showed some real promise, and the potential to give us a Sci Fi show with concepts that haven't been dealt with anywhere else on TV.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    BSG did Friday night just fine

    by lockesbrokenleg

    of course, that show as far better.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST


    by Djamdjean

    Super hot; but awful actress. She should never be the featured actor on any show...ever. Unless we're talking porn.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:34 p.m. CST

    Hate to see it go!

    by Refuge5

    Show was getting better every episode....

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:35 p.m. CST

    I wonder if any sci fi show could survive the fri death slot?

    by jaysin420

    oh wait...they also just announced a 2 hr Geoff Johns movie and an entire episode based around comic-con with "bigger" news to follow later today. Season 10 announcement I'm guessing.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:39 p.m. CST

    I'm shocked. I did NOT see this coming

    by Ryanbraun14

    or wouldn't have seen it coming if all i did was read herc's reports on it without reading the talkbacks.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST

    At least he has that Glee money to fall back on

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Johnny Smith: MillenniuM torpedoed itself too

    by growltiger

    I am not trying to be cruel because I treasure that series, all 3 seasons. But like Dollhouse, it torpedoed itself with its season 2 finale, "The Time Is Now". Thanks for nothing, Morgan & Wong.<p> At the time I thought it was brilliant, but looking back I understand it compromised future development. How do you follow up from a plague and an end of the world scenario? They ignored it. To be fair, how do you follow that act?<p> To get back on topic, Dollhouse sets up an end of civilization scenario in its unaired but DVD available season one conclusion. Awesome episode, but if the show continued how were we going to negotiate to that path? Why would I watch knowing that the series would inevitably conclude by dropping me into an abyss of despair and then abandon me there?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:43 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    "Whedon could have tied (or still could tie)in an end-of-the world scenario with the characters;"<br><br>so i guess good scifi must have an apocalypse of some sort built up and prevented after one or two seasons. <br><br>Why isn't there a show that actually has a world ending plot which builds up over the course of five seasons yet have the pedal to the metal the whole time? Now THAT is a show i'd watch.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Why does AICN have such

    by decypher44

    a chubby for Joss? Seriously.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:48 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Watch Lost or FF or V.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:49 p.m. CST

    blame it on friday nights

    by Ryanbraun14

    yeah, a scifi show cannot possibly survive on a friday night nor is it remotely possible to see ratings improve, and if you combine those two things with a show on a lesser channel like CW there is no chance in hell a show can get through a season without getting cancelled. if only there was a show that proved those things can be overcome if the writing and plot is the best the show has ever have... now THAT is a show that would deserve respect.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:50 p.m. CST

    Why is Friday the kiss of death for Fox shows?

    by kenny38606

    It seems like every network can sustain a Friday night series for several years, except for Fox.I don't get it. Stargate SG-1 Stargate Atlantis Battlestar Galactica Eureka Farscape Numb3rs Ghost Whisperer Homicide Life On The Street Law and Order SVU Family Matters Sabrina, the Teenage Witch Boy Meets World Nash Bridges Unsolved Mysteries Step by Step Hangin' with Mr. Cooper Diagnosis: Murder Providence Reba What I Like About You

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:50 p.m. CST

    That last episode was the best of the show. Too bad

    by cromulent

    they weren't all like that. Also, it didn't feature Dusku as the main centerpiece. Coincidence?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:51 p.m. CST

    Didn't X-Files start on Fridays? I don't remember....

    by cromulent

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST


    by spud mcspud

    Of all those shows, the one I miss the most that HASN'T made it to DVD (unless you count the fact that BRISCO COUNTY JR is NOT available on R2, tight bastards!) is definitely FREAKYLINKS. On a good day, FRINGE wishes it had half the charisma, the cool and the just plain FUN of this series. Oh, and Lisa Sheridan is TEH HOTNESS!<P> Just give me my goddamn FREAKYLINKS box set already, and then I'll go away.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:54 p.m. CST

    I love how everyone's blaming the day

    by lockesbrokenleg

    How about, the show was terrible? Nah, it couldn't be that.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:56 p.m. CST

    Oh, and my GLOBAL FREQUENCY pilot DVD too!

    by spud mcspud

    Because maybe then the fucking avalanche of money that pours in when you finally release that pilot with some supplementary material might actually convince you WB motherfuckers that you HAD THE NEXT FUCKING X-FILES THERE, AND YOU LOST IT!!<p> Jesus. What IS it with these dumbass fucking suits?? WHY can't they keep one decent SF show alive?<P> I blame Simon Cowel. Fucker is the antichrist of popular culture...

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:56 p.m. CST


    by hst666

    You are fucking high. Dollhouse is a far superior show and it;s not that great. Smallville blows and it has blown since the beginning. I watched that show through part of the fourth season and any time any advancement or character development began, they would always reset. Dollhouse is a work of genius by comparison.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:58 p.m. CST

    Was the one with the cop who was Hell's bounty hunter

    by hst666

    in the deathslot? For whatever reason I cannot think of the name right now. But that show was good.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST

    Had lionel luthor in it.

    by hst666

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5 p.m. CST

    Have they stopped production yet?

    by theGoldbergV

    Or does this mean that we'll get a proper series finale? Because if so, then fine. Otherwise, fuck off FOX. <p><p>Actually fuck FOX altogether. Maybe if you'd left the orginal pilot alone, stopped meddling, done some fucking promotion for this show then the numbers would've been better. People can criticise it, but its still better and smarter than lots of other crap that gets renewed without thought. <p><P>Now Joss, got to HBO and make the awe-inspiring sci-fi masterpiece we know you have in you.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    locke--aside from Lost, FF and V have not yet proven they can a) last into a fifth season and b) sustain a story arc that can get to the fifth season with one long story arc that gets better and better each season. TELL ME A SHOW THAT HAS PROVEN IT CAN DO THAT--IT CANNOT BE DONE.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5 p.m. CST

    It doesn't help...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...that the "Friday night death slot" shows you listed, with one or two exceptions, were unwatchable crap.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5 p.m. CST


    by mooli_mooli

    bastards. i was enjoying that, and the last episode was excellent.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:01 p.m. CST


    by theGoldbergV


  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:01 p.m. CST


    by ebonic_plague

    The Wire. <p> Some people like to say that the fifth season wasn't as good, those people are factually incorrect.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:04 p.m. CST

    Legend of the Seeker is

    by teethgnasher

    still going strong. It's a decent show. How does it continue when a Joss Whedon show struggles?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    friday is the last day...

    by emeraldboy

    before the weekend. nobody watches tv on a friday night. that is the night you go out and relax. to forget about work unless you do shift work.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    Don't forget Wonderfalls!

    by Jayemel

    Or is that too fantasy?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Um, Lost is going into season 6, and most agree it gets better every year.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:05 p.m. CST

    and additionally

    by Ryanbraun14

    to add to what i said above: TELL ME A SHOW THAT HAS PROVEN IT CAN DO THAT--IT CANNOT BE DONE...<br><br>... why can't it not be done? Because if there was a show like that on television, with one, big long arc, that gets better and better each season, and by the time it gets to season five it has become EPIC, well, surely Herc would bring a show like that to all of our attention...right???

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST

    Just show reruns of Xena and Hercules

    by teethgnasher

    on Friday nights. Keep it simple.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:07 p.m. CST

    Fox should get the Journeyman rights and restart that show

    by cromulent

    then I'd might forgive them for all their atrocities against mankind.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Deep Space Nine ran for 7 years and had story arcs each year. Babylon Five also.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST

    Whedon needs to leave FOX

    by Adelai Niska

    If he goes back again after they ruined two of his shows, I'm calling the battered women helpline.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:08 p.m. CST


    by theGoldbergV

    the 5th season of The Wire is not as good as the 4th, but its still better than anything else that isn't The Wire.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:09 p.m. CST

    Whedon freed.

    by jgsugden

    I liked Dollhouse a lot, but MOST, but not all, of the Whedon fans out there would rank Dollhouse as their least favorite setting out of the Buffy/Firefly/Horrible/Dollhouse options. They'd also rank Dushku behind Fillion, Gellar and Boreanaz as a lead. I think the bright side here is that Whedon is now free to pursue a project that doesn't focus on the girl he was crushing on. This was a show he made for Eliza. I'd rather see a new show he makes for himself... I'd love to see Whedon tackle a fantasy setting with a bit more bite - a fantasy epic with the gritty realism of BSG and the character depth of Whedon...

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST

    i would not buy dollhouse for 10 bucks.

    by alice133

    put that marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:14 p.m. CST

    oh shit, now I'll never know how it ends

    by punto

    wait, yes I do, because I watched that unaired episode from the dvd. nevermind.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:17 p.m. CST

    I liked the Lone Gunmen

    by Super Rabbi

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:19 p.m. CST

    Who do I feel bad for?

    by igregory

    Ray Wise, that's who. This guy is great, too bad he can't get on a show that lasts. I didn't watch this, but I loved Reaper.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:20 p.m. CST

    Death Slot

    by Wrath4771

    Brscoe County was a great show. I know everyone is a huge Firefly fan, but of all the shows that's the one that screwed the most. Second place - Firefly, Third place - Sarah Connor

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST

    X Files thrived on Fridays for years.

    by jimmay

    Sure, it was a long time ago, but it deflates the Friday timeslot of death argument.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST


    by JaPra

    Whedon SUCKS. He has interesting concepts and mediocre follow-through. He's not a great writer, he's a poor one, and this rabid heterosexual idea of a gorgeous woman who's made over into whatever you want to be is as old as time itself. I wasn't impressed, and it would take something spectacular from him to lure me into his fold.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    I'll accept that, theGoldbergV...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...but those that say it jumped the shark with the fifth season are full of it. They could have wrapped it up after the third season (if it hadn't been renewed), but the fifth season ties up every single story thread beautifully, it's worth it for that alone. <p> That said, I'm glad there's not a sixth season... the little winks (like Richard Belzer) were getting to be slightly too obvious.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    Hey Cromulent:

    by DreamSeasonBobby

    Just so you know, you can find old episodes of Strange Luck on YouTube if you really search for them. They're broken down into Act installments, but the stories are still online, even the Mulder reference that Eric makes. Glad to know I'm not the last person alive who appreciated this quirky show.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    "Rapehouse" Has Been Cancelled?: Good News!!!

    by Media Messiah

    My, How The Chickens Have Come Home To Roost? BTW, Have You Noticed, Most Of The Plant Posters Are Gone From The Talkback?<BR><BR>You know their names and so do I, so no need to mention them, but they are the same folks who were here...religiously, to attack anybody who disagreed with the direction and writing of Dollhouse. Now that Dollhouse has been cancelled, like magic...poof, they have all but disappeared overnight???<BR><BR>Whedon in his arrogance has lost it. I point-out his snide comments about wanting to buy the rights to The Terminator for 10,000 dollars. But I digress, back to Dollhouse. The guy lied to Fox, claimed that he would launch the second season of Dollhouse in a new direction of some sort, and yet, we got more of the same, a show exhibiting poor quality control at every turn within its writing? The show became like a acting class exercise with sparsely related script-sides that were pieced together to form a episode each week? There was no fluid story arc, and there was no story whatsoever???!!! This was just a thrown together high-concept take on prostition...and rape as sexual titillation. "The Rape Show", as I call it...or "Rapehouse" as another poster more appropriately called it.<BR><BR>Don't worry, you haven't missed anything, all of the rest of the episodes, we might guess, will just feature more of the same, rich white guys buying and raping more mind wiped protitutes, just because they can?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:31 p.m. CST

    since its cancelled, and made by whendon, itll be called a "cult

    by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN

    you know this to be true

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:32 p.m. CST


    by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN

    fuckin stupid 1996 talkback

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:38 p.m. CST

    MM, you Tool: FOX cancelling it does NOT validate any

    by chromedome

    of your stupid suggestions or theories. And ANYONE could have predicted a cancellation was coming with a Fox Friday Night time slot, independent of your or my opinion about the show.<p>But your true character is revealed: taking Joy in someone else's loss, so ready to shout how you told us so, as if this is a personal victory for you.<p>It really isn't all about you, your delusions to the contrary notwithstanding.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    An expected tragedy

    by oisin5199

    Now, I have no driving inner desire to 'rank' things. I think all Whedon's shows are unique and brilliant in their own right. But I always knew that Dollhouse wasn't built to last, and I think Whedon knew it, too, despite his talk of five seasons. It is such a dark premise that critiques the very industry he works in, so it's meant to self-destruct (kinda like Dadaism). I mean, listen to 'Commentary the Musical' on the Dr. Horrible DVD to get a sense of his frustration and growing cynicism around television and fandom in general. This show was never going to be easily digestable, despite Fox's (and Media Messiah's) lame efforts to turn it into a procedural. Whedon basically shoved our faces in our complicity in the prostitution that is the television industry. I, for one, think it's ballsy and brilliant, and no one else could have pulled it off. To get 26 episodes of it is close to a miracle. So I applaud it. Can't wait to see how it's resolved. And as usual, Media Messiah: Fuck. You. Yeah, I'm resorting to insults, because that's all you understand. You are utterly clueless, paranoid delusional, and just flat out wrong. Again, and again.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Can't wait to see if Josh is dumb and does Fox Again!!

    by Duty

    Hahahah... did not learn from Firefly... wonder if he will learn from Dollhouse.... IF YOU MAKE SCI-FI or LIVE ACTION COMEDY do NOT work with FOX!!!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Teethgnasher: Legend Of The Seeker Has Good Writing...

    by Media Messiah

    ...and balanced characters, and evolution of those characters, and BTW, they haven't forgotten the main rule of have to have a protagonist and a antagonist in a story...something that, in regard to Dollhouse, Whedon threw-out the window, as he had neither? Guess nepotism, with respect to Dollhouse, at least, has proven fatal?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Good Riddance, Show was awful

    by Saen

    Hopefully Whedon can come up with a new idea; or go back to space cowboys.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:42 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    I would like to personally thank all the men and women serving in our Armed Force, past and present, for their service to our country. It is VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:42 p.m. CST

    Man, Whedon ha a scary fan base

    by lockesbrokenleg

    these scary people think they own Whedon. Scary.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:43 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Learn how to spell before you spam every TB.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:44 p.m. CST

    Joss went to Fox only because Dushku was under contract there

    by chromedome

    She had a development deal with them, and SHE approached Joss to create a show for her. Joss did not seek out Fox, nor did Fox seek him out. He was just being loyal to Dushku, as she was being loyal to him.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:47 p.m. CST

    I agree with earlier post: after seeing Epitaph 1, this stings

    by chromedome

    that gave a sense of the larger arc, the darker things not yet seen, and an intriguing course ahead. Too bad. <p>May just bail on Fox's airings and wait for dvds.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Not a surprise

    by Dapper Swindler

    How could a continuous drama survive on a Friday night? It basically requires the viewer to stay home every Friday night to keep up with it. So the slightest bit of a social life will alienate viewers. Only a comedy or reality show or something that doesn't require following along could work on a Friday.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:47 p.m. CST

    jimjay: That's because X-files was Great

    by mistergreen

    FireFly was great too but fox dropped the ball on that one.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Dear Joss:

    by walfrid

    I love your work, I really do... but seriously head to ABC, try and talk J. J. Abrams to be your "producer" and your shows would run for 10 years!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:48 p.m. CST

    Dear Fox:

    by walfrid

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Dear Fox:

    by walfrid

    Your fan base loves Sci-Fi and you keep fucking us over, please stop. there's nothing on tuesday nights besides the Biggest Loser, and we're just playing video games, please think about it.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Thank the Maker....

    by jimbojones123

    No more porn for 12 year olds commercials and bumpers.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST

    This show was a pimple of the ass of Firefly

    by Tall_Boy66

    Seriously, Whedon can do better. I liked the show. It had moments of greatness. But, overall, he was slumming it and doing it as a favour to Dushku and her development deal. I was leery about Season 2 anyway Epitaph 1 was a FANTASTIC series finale, best the show ever did, and then it got season 2. That's odd. Haven't watched S2 yet, gonna wait until it's finished, but I hope Whedon wraps the thing up tighter than a drum. And then does Dr. Horrible. Becuase, really, this show was not Firefly and if there's any show that deserved to be strung out by Fox, it was Firefly (but the series wrapped up pretty damn perfectly with Serenity so I'm okay with that).

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST

    Bring back Werewolf

    by cromulent

    THough I guess that was more horror than sci-fi.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST

    And don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!

    by Raymar

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:58 p.m. CST

    Joss=free pass for life.

    by jimbojones123

    He will be given another 10 mil check next year from somebody to develop something that will fail as well. As Joss matures, we will next see inside the mind of what a thirty year old woman's view of the world is. Like, totally fag me with a spoon.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Pre order Joss' new book "Up the ass with Fox"

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6 p.m. CST

    Gag, not fag

    by jimbojones123

    Sorry. Although if fag were not so offensive a word, it would be a much more briliant metaphor.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6 p.m. CST

    by RayPatterson

    Not to worry. We can now look forward to the inevitable continuation in comic book form.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST


    by jimbojones123

    Is that because Joss was screwing them royally out of million of ad $$$ because of his garbage show?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST

    Joss Whedon is terribly overrated.

    by Azlam Orlandu

    Just sayin'.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST

    Great! That makes way for....


    THE ASIMOV LIVES SHOW!<p>Live from Portugal; 45 minutes of a deranged, unwashed man ranting at the screen whilst drinking wine and face-raping a cardboard cut-out of JJ Abrams.<p>Yipee, motherfuckers!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    That and Fox pimps out Joss for free headlines and then cancels the show a week later.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:10 p.m. CST

    Love Joss but he didn't bring his A game!

    by HollywoodHellraiser

    Joss knew what Dollhouse was up against; 2 weak lead-ins and a deeath slot! Yet Joss didn't bring his A game!<p>I hate to admit but Joss seemed like he was pissed about Fox decision and just didn't give a shit about season 2 Dollhouse!<p>I want to say I will miss DH but I really didn't get a chance to know it!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:11 p.m. CST

    WHAT? No coverage of Lou Dobbs resigning CNN?...

    by FlickaPoo

    ...Mexicans everywhere raise their middle fingers in a silent and noble FUCK YOU.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:14 p.m. CST

    No more Jer Jer Binks!

    by Naughty

    I'm going to really miss these Dollhouse Talkbacks. So sad :(

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST


    by darthsynn

    Perhaps now the Whedonites will stop worshipping this overpraised hack.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST

    Heroes: Not canceled yet

    by zerogundamx

    Suck it herc

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:23 p.m. CST

    "Perhaps now the Whedonites will stop worshipping this overprais

    by Hercules

    That'll happen.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:27 p.m. CST

    The really sad part

    by fiester

    That list of show in the death slot is not a bad list.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:31 p.m. CST

    Farewell Dollhouse

    by Ron's Jeremy

    Dushku is a terrible actress. But I would still use her shit as toothpaste.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:32 p.m. CST

    see what reality tv has done?

    by Bouncy X

    networks expects huge ratings at the get go and to stay there, if that doesnt happen they cancel. someone mentioned how X-Files thrived on fridays making the "death slot" comment moot. but the thing is, X-Files woulda never gotten far with today's mentality. back then they gave show's a chance to grow and build an audience. these days shows are cancelled after 2 episodes and all because of retarded reality tv that somehow gets huge ratings.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:32 p.m. CST

    John Doe, forgot about that one

    by gravybits

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    Get Thee to Cable

    by newkie brown

    I don't feel that Fox were entirely unfair to Dollhouse. Sure, they could have supported the show a little more by placing it somewhere in the schedules where it had a fighting chance of pulling an audience, but all-in-all they seemed want it to succeed, which in itself felt like a policy shift. I agree with most of the other talkbackers that Whedon should try to get something running at on cable. It seems fairly clear that most of his sensibilities toward the edgier material. Dollhouse felt a little shackled by the standards and practices of network TV. <p>By the way, Millennium canceled itself with that poor third season. Morgan and Wong did a great job producing the second season, stepping in to help relieve the pressure on Carter when he had too much on his plate with the X Files movie and series. They did the guy a favor and still caught it in the ass for changing the concept too much.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST

    The show is a mess.

    by CatVutt

    Ill-conceived, and only sporadically executed with any sort of real creative direction. For every 'Whoa!' moment, there were 6 groans, 4 resets, and 20 minutes of pointless drivel. And no...Ms. Dushku should never, ever be trying to carry a show, unless that show is FAITH THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:36 p.m. CST

    They're working on ep 11, so..

    by kimrae1977

    Production hasn't ended, yet. Joss Whedon recently posted on Whedonesque that the writers were "not exactly saving all the good stuff for 14-22," so hopefully they had/have a plan to wrap it up with 13.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:39 p.m. CST

    Well, Fox also didn't advertise

    by kimrae1977

    DH during the rest of the week. I don't know how many people I've talked to that said they rarely saw a commercial for DH during season 2 so far while watching other Fox shows. Promotion is key if you're going to stick the show on Friday.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:39 p.m. CST

    There must be 1000 actresses...

    by bierce Hollywood more talented than Eliza Dushku, and I hope they all get their chance to prove it before someone gives her work again. If Eliza keeps getting hired we may have to put her in the Lee Majors Hall of Fame for Questionable Talent.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:40 p.m. CST

    I'm thinking the main audience downloads it

    by ulcer

    Which is the problem. if you download all of your show, you're off the grid and not registering with ratings. And not paying for show. <br><br> Now I do watch the show on TV... but really.. while I like some of the characters, I won't miss itenjoying it

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:41 p.m. CST

    Ryanbraun14's question is rhetorical.

    by jim

    He already knows the answer; the show in question is Supernatural, of course.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:44 p.m. CST

    Not surprising

    by MR. MURDOCH

    of course, to be expected. Agreed on Dushku -- hot, but untalented in acting, at least not enough for a lead on a show. Then again, some would say the same about Tom Welling -- and look at what WB and The CW are doing for this show in its 9th Season -- A TV MOVIE IN JANUARY! The "Friday" curse doesn't seem to be affecting "Smallville" one bit -- in fact, CW is now supporting this show more than it ever has! SHH also has a source stating that the network/company gave them a budget increase for these two combined episodes.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:45 p.m. CST


    by Hercules

    I'm thinking maybe Fox decided to pull the trigger here because JW wanted two episodes notice to make sure he got to the series' biggest ideas. <p> The next episode, with Summer Glau, is definitely the best of this season so far.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST

    At least they will be airing the remaining episodes

    by jim

    You'd think the network that airs American Idol could use those ratings to offset a handful of lowly-rated shows; use the ratings-giant to carry the under-performers.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:51 p.m. CST


    by smackfu

    Stargate SG-1 - on a network where Fox Friday Night ratings = good ratings <br> Stargate Atlantis - on a network where Fox Friday Night ratings = good ratings <br> Battlestar Galactica - on a network where Fox Friday Night ratings = good ratings <br> Eureka - on a network where Fox Friday Night ratings = good ratings <br> Farscape - on a network where Fox Friday Night ratings = good ratings <br> Numb3rs - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Ghost Whisperer - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Homicide Life On The Street - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Law and Order SVU - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Family Matters - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Sabrina, the Teenage Witch - little kids don't go out on friday night<br> Boy Meets World - little kids don't go out on friday night<br> Nash Bridges - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Unsolved Mysteries - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Step by Step - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Hangin' with Mr. Cooper - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Diagnosis: Murder - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Providence - old people don't go out on friday night<br> Reba - old people don't go out on friday night<br> What I Like About You - old people don't go out on friday night<br> <br><br><br>Also noteworthy, is that 'kids don't go out on friday night' also applies to the sci-fi shows you listed, whereas a lot of the Fox Friday Night Death Slot shows tend to be the kind of sci-fi that kids find boring, Millennium, Firefly, Dollhouse, etc. Yes, Battlestar was more of an adult oriented show too, but it was simply too awesome for kids not to love.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Also worth noting

    by smackfu

    is that while Homicide: Life on the Street was loved by old people who love boring procedural cop shows, it was also indeed, an awesome, awesome show.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    Clone Wars does GREAT on Friday nights

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Hell, the last episode of CW Season One even beat out BSG.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:55 p.m. CST

    Sorry about Dollhouse...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...will watch it through to the end, but it wasn't great. And yeah, Eliza was a big part of why it wasn't. The slow start also hurt it, and the slow start hurt it worse than Dushku or the time slot. Good TV forges immediate bonds between the central characters and the audience. Think about the opening "Snot Boogie" sequence in The Wire. Or even go with previous Whedon shows. You can trash the first season of Buffy a little if you want, but Buffy's character was absolutely established in the very first episode, and the growth of the character through the first five seasons followed absolutely logically from that introduction. This didn't happen with Dollhouse. Structurally it could not happen as Whedon envisioned the show. It could have if the show had started with a "La Femme Nikita" opening, and I'm surprised, from just a story structure standpoint, that Whedon didn't think of this. By creating a compelling protagonist and then stripping away her self the audience has a rooting interest in seeing her regain her humanity. With Dollhouse Whedon seemed so enamored on the concept of dolls that he forgot that in order for viewers to be invested there had to be a protagonist to invest in.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:58 p.m. CST

    This is the Kind of Show that Should be on SyFY

    by AngrySnowMonkey

    but it won't go there, as this network panders to the lowest common denominator. That's right, no room on SyFy because they blew the budget on programs where roided out dudes wearing panties handle up on each other. And also there's a borderline retarded show with the 30rock guy who hosts can't hide his boredom. they should show him cashing his check for this show at a check cashing hut--it'd be more entertaining. And then there's the Sasquatch and Asteroid movie marathons...

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 6:59 p.m. CST

    Dollhouse gone, fastforward is next

    by nostairway

    Whedon and Abrams, two overrated douches that are being exposed for the hacks they are. When are networks going to choose shows based on concept instead of who's pitching it?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7 p.m. CST

    By the way...

    by Red Ned Lynch someone who raged against it, Briscoe County was more the victim of one of those periodic "television is corrupting the young" political pogroms than ratings. The show did not die a natural death. And Herc, thanks for mentioning VR 5. It was by no stretch of the imagination a good show, but it was an arc driven show, and it starred the very cute Lori Singer.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:01 p.m. CST

    Abrahms has nothing to do with FF

    by lockesbrokenleg

    get your facts straight before you slam someone.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST


    by darthsynn

    a fellow can dream, can't he?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST

    Umm, you left Profit off your list

    by _Maltheus_

    Seriously man, it was the original dark show. There'd never be a Dexter or Breaking Bad without Profit. As for Dollhouse, too bad, but I don't care too much ether. Maybe his next show will be better (if he even gets there).

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST

    A decisive moment for Dollhouse...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...too, I think, was when the background of Dushku's character was revealed. If you are going to hide your protagonist's real identity as Dollhouse did, there had better be layers to their back story, it should at least be somewhat important to the overall narrative, and it certainly shouldn't be vanilla. I lost a lot of my hope for Dollhouse when it was revealed Dushku's character had just been an animal right's activist who ended up in a bad spot.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST

    I Blame Joss

    by Bellam

    I am hard pressed to see it otherwise. He went back to Fox, who murdered the best show that never was. I still watch the entire Firefly on DVD at least once a year.<br><br>I haven't watched much of Dollhouse this season, but the few episodes I've caught I liked, and the rest are waiting on some time to sit with them. I'm sure when I get through them I might feel sad for it. But honestly, Joss needs to get away from Fox. Joss needs cable.<br><br>I also agree with Red Ned - but if you watch the original pilot, the one that Fox told him to change, it was what it needed to be.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:09 p.m. CST

    It's not the night or the show, it's both!

    by Outlaw24

    Nielsen families are the only ones whose TV interests are represented. That said, looking at what gets the best ratings for Friday nights, it's clear that families and older people are home to watch TV Friday night, neither of which are the target audience for a sci-fi show like Dollhouse. The young crowd you want to see this show is not watching TV live Friday night. I know I don't. I was actually kind of excited when V started on ABC, not necessarily because I would like it but because it gave me something to watch on Tuesday nights (which no one else is doing). It shouldn't be about trying to steal viewers away from popular shows already on that night, it should be about appealing to and bringing in an audience that is not being catered to at that time. Law & Order may kick ass one night, but the same people who won't tune in for that might tune in for something like Dollhouse. Why else would "House" re-runs do so well on a Friday in place of "Dollhouse"? Because THAT (Nielsen) audience is watching TV Friday night. But then, it always comes back to who has the Nielsen boxes, no matter how many people actually watch a show. Personally, I think it needs to be a volunteer basis rather than a random sampling. I'd be more than happy to let the networks know what I'm watching if it might keep a show I enjoy watching from being canceled, and I've got a feeling I'm not the only one.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:10 p.m. CST

    inevitable but still sad

    by newc0253

    Dollhouse started weak. Angel season 1 weak. But it always got better. 'Man on the Street' and, later, 'Epitaph One' showed its potential. And the season 2 eps have been getting steadily better.<p> It was frankly a miracle that it survived to a second season but i'm pleased that it did. We get to see all 13 eps. But I'm also kinda relieved its getting cancelled because the show has always struggled. Struggled in the ratings but also struggled with itself to overcome Fox's initial retooling. I hope that Wheedon ain't too disheartened. And I hope he comes back better than ever.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Will Fringe be next?

    by The Outlander

    My guess is Fox will pickup Fringe for another season and put it on Friday and bring in another new Sci-Fi show to pair with it and both shows will be cancelled due to low ratings. Sound familiar?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:17 p.m. CST

    How is Dushku "hot"?

    by Audio_of_Being

    I swear that girl looks more and more like a retarded person everytime I see her on TV. Do you people have a retard fetish or something?<P>Also: No big loss on Dollhouse. If a show wants to take it's sweet time getting to the point like Dollhouse did, it deserves the axe.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:20 p.m. CST

    Maybe FOX should quit running sci-fi, Period.

    by Logan_1973

    They clearly don't know how to treat them.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:21 p.m. CST

    And hopefully...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...this will lead to something much better. I'm not one of those people who think Whedon needs to try his hand at film, but I am hoping he has a couple more winning television shows in him.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:24 p.m. CST

    "there had better be layers to their back story"

    by Hercules

    The next episode does indeed suggest there's a lot more of interest in Caroline's backstory.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:25 p.m. CST


    by Rhuragh

    Yeah, but only children and retards watch Clone Wars.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:30 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Did you watch last week's CW. The opening scene had more spaceships in the frame than the new BSG ever did.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:32 p.m. CST

    This now means

    by theGoldbergV

    that I have a definitive end-point for enduring both Media Messiah's ramblings and Ammended ramblings in Dollhouse Talkbacks. So, it feels appropriate to make the following confession: <p><P>Media Messiah, I work for Mutant Enemy. I am the plant of which you talk. Its me. It was about 3 months ago and I turned up for work only to be signalled into an office that was not my own. This was done in a stern, humourous and pop-culture laded way, as is the preferred method of communication here. Once inside, I was given the following brief: monitor Dollhouse's progress on a particularly interesting yet technology-challenged website. One of the company's higher ups spoke of a special TBer, one man within the sea of many, who he believed had discovered the 'miracle fix', the PAX if you will, for re-inventing the Dollhouse. This man, I was told, was no ordinary Talkbacker, he was not simply prone to the odd useful suggestion, witty one-liner or vaguely psychotic rant, no, this man was a beacon in the dark, a saviour, a hero...the new Jesus. They told me his name, your name, Media Messiah. <p><p>I was assigned to 'keep tabs' on you. They told me that you were not ready yet, that the insecurities of your youth, inexperience with women and obvious retardation were holding you back, but, that in time, and with the right guidance, you would reach your true potential. They told me to only address you occasionally, as to not tip you off to my true nature. When doing so, I was advised, to always use lots of commas, like, all, the, time. "He likes commas!" they said. I can still hear Jed's words ringing in my ears... <p><p>So I watched, I waited, I rolled my eyes fifty thousand billion times as you described how if only it was a bit more like Alias Dollhouse would be so much better. I thought, this guy has a point, it would be better if it was more like Alias, and we jettisoned the moral ambiguity that we had strived so hard for, to replace it with spy-espionage-of-the-week type stuff. More simple. Less nuanced. More FOX. I bit my tongue in Mutant Enemy meetings, kept my mouth shut. These were the thoughts of mutiny, these were not my mission. But I was torn, on one hand the experienced professionals in the TV industry, on the other, you with your badly punctuated, often hilarious, but completely justified critiques. I knew you were right, but I was trapped. I waited and waited. But it was all worth it, because in the end, I suceeded in my mission. <p><P>Now that Dollhouse has been officially canceled, I'd like to extend an offer to you Media Messiah. Take My Job. I don't want it anymore. You have shown me the light. Not only are you better at writing than all of us here at ME HQ, but you are also not delusional. Its true, I am also your Psychiatrist so I know. So go ahead, turn up bright and early Monday morning here at the offices in LA and I'll hand you a steaming hot cuppa Joe and show you to my desk. There you can crack on and make the magic happen. As an extra gift, I got you a keyboard with a extra special big question mark key to end every sentence with. Enjoy????????????????????? <p><p>?????????????????????

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:38 p.m. CST

    DOLLHOUSE was sadly doomed by the main premise

    by SpyGuy

    Having your lead character mindwiped into a blank slate every week (at least in the first season) gives your audience little to connect with, especially when she becomes a creepy little fucktoy for rich guys on a regular basis. And when your secondary characters like Victor and Sierra were more interesting than your lead, the whole foundation for the series quickly became a house of cards in a hurricane. <p>If the beginning of season one had featured the Dolls secretly retaining their true identities and working from within to escape and/or bring down the Dollhouse, I think this series would have had a lot more life in it.</p>

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:39 p.m. CST


    by Hercules

    all good stuff, but your "extra special big question mark key" got a big laugh out of me.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:43 p.m. CST

    It just wasn't that good. Sorry.

    by BurnedNotice_Dude

    I tried to watch. Tried real hard. Just didn't grab me.<p> As Friday being a grave for tv shows I have to disagree. Look at some of the stuff produced on FOX. It really hasn't been that great. Yeah. We love it on this site but talking to people who don't post here paints a different picture.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:44 p.m. CST

    JOHN DOE on DVD please!

    by Zero Mayhem

    Also Dushku looks like a droopy-eyed tranny, I don't get the appeal.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:49 p.m. CST

    I will miss...

    by Red Ned Lynch

    ...Sierra. And Herc, I wish they had started peeling those layers a little sooner. There were flashes in this show that hinted that it could have really been something. Wish it had made it.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:51 p.m. CST

    theGoldbergV reigns supreme!

    by chromedome

    I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!<p>great stuff, sir.<p>or should, I, say great--stuff, sir?????

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 7:54 p.m. CST

    Also the X-files

    by CZ

    The X-Files did start on Fridays. And the ratings practically doubled when they moved to Sundays. It only survived the death slot because it was just that awesome. I must have seen a dozen shows get swapped out of the 8PM slot over the same time period.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:02 p.m. CST


    by Rhuragh

    Star Wars is dead to me. I've never watched a second of it.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:13 p.m. CST

    I feel sorry for the two dozen fans of the show

    by Xiphos_2

    I thought the show sucked but I've liked lowly rated shows in the past that got cancelled so I understand the the disappointment.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:14 p.m. CST

    Re : The Outlander

    by Real Deal

    A curious thing is that Fringe gets a 41 percent boost ( just read this on another website ) and Doll House gets a 51 percent boost when DVR numbers are added! What this means is maybe FOX should look at the stupid nights they put things on for one and two maybe take another look at their antique way of measuring viewers. Personally I think Fringe will get moved back to a timeslot like tuesday where it thrived. Also JJ Abrams says that FOX is really supportive of the show so they'll probably move it instead of canceling.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Friday nights

    by Toonol

    "The network should maybe think about putting some of its sci-fi shows on another night."<br><br> While I would selfishly agree with you, I'm not sure that makes sense from Fox's perspective. They need to put SOMETHING on Fridays; if they had moved Dollhouse to, say, Wednesday, they would have to put something else on Friday in its place... and that other show would then be doomed. They may even think that SF shows perform better on Fridays because they have a small but fierce set of fans.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:28 p.m. CST

    Whedon may want to try and sell TV shows elsewhere

    by YackBacker

    FOX and Whedon do not mix, this is obvious. I actually never watched DOLLHOUSE because I have no interest in the concept. But I did enjoy FIREFLY a lot. Whedon, try out USA for your next show. They seem to be a better fit.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Fox should just dump game shows on Fridays

    by Tall_Boy66

    Don't Forget the Lyrics and that Hole in the Wall show. They should keep a sci-fi show on Tuesdays for Fall Season, and maybe only order 18 episodes or so, and then they can run American Idol on Tuesdays in the Winter.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST

    Now Dollhouse joins Dark Angel.

    by SonicRiver

    If only Joss and Cameron could get together somehow, and merge the Dark Angel and Dollhouse universes.It should be called Dark Dollhouse Angel. The premise is that genetic superfreaks escaped from their secret military base as children, but as adults became subject to periodic remote brain wipes. Ratings Gold!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:49 p.m. CST

    I meant Goyer, not Abrams

    by nostairway

    Sorry, sometimes I get my douches mixed up. So many to keep track of...

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST

    Frankly I'm just glad it got the extra season

    by Auriellis

    We all thought it would be cancelled after its first season so to even get these extra episodes is a blessing. Plus since he hasn't started filming that last two episodes, likely one or mre major characters will bite the dust in the traditional Joss "Fuck you the world sucks" cliche which will rip out our hearts and stomp on them.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:06 p.m. CST

    I'm loving the show now, but I'm okay with the cancellation

    by doubleARon

    This show is becoming sort of awesome. This season has been, dare I say it, powerful. It's VERY clear where the problems are in the first season to anybody who has watched it regularly. Epitaph One illuminated the problems nicely.<p> This season the show still has some issues, but it has feet now and the writers seem to have finally gotten ahold of the potential of the premise, and this is all unlocked because the stories now have consequences for the main characters.<p> In the end, as much as I love the direction things are going, I don't think this story needs to go on and on and on. What's wrong with a two season run? Nothing. Just make it memorable and complete.<p>That's a tall order now, I suppose, but I wish American TV would stop shooting for a 10 year franchise every time a new show is pitched. (To some degree it is beginning to happen, I guess.)<p> In fact, if Dollhouse had been pitched and accepted as a two season show, Joss would have cut to the chase, right? The whole progression would be tighter and we could have gone right up to Epitaph One and slightly beyond. In two seasons.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:07 p.m. CST

    Dollhouse's cancellation is now worth it

    by NoQuarter

    thanks to that epic MM-tweaking from theGoldbergV. Sir, I bow down to your superior troll-destroying skills????????

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:10 p.m. CST

    As Joss's biggest defender, I have to say he dropped the ball he

    by thewizardofoz

    ...He ended season one with the FANTASTIC Epitaph 1 which got everyone excited about the next season (even without the episode itself ever airing) and then totally dropped all the threadlines from that episode. Season 2 premiere was really good, but his promise that this season would shake things up and be more exciting got lost in that stupid Echo as psycho Mom episode and that lame serial killer one which could just as easily come from the dreaded first half of season one. GET ON WITH IT! Everyone loved Epitaph, why steer so far away from that? Where are the damn scenes they already shot with Felicia Day? I think Dollhouse was a fascinating experiment that hit some great highs and could have developed into something fantastic if left to Joss's devices on SyFy channel or something - but now it ends as just that, a failed experiment. BUFFY MOVIE, JOSS, STAT!!!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:39 p.m. CST

    I love Firefly...

    by Billyeveryteen

    Dollhouse, not so much.<p>Here's to second grace.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:41 p.m. CST

    by JohnIan

    Can we now get "Faith: The Vamprie Slayer"?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Eliza Dushku: not a series lead

    by TheApostle

    She isn't a very good actress. Certainly not good enough to pull off the Dollhouse premise. Back to obscurity Dushku. Back I say!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Fuck anymore Buffy, there must be more Dr. Horrible

    by Tall_Boy66

    Lots, lots more. You got your Buffy and Angel comics. Be happy. Besides, is an aging-cast-gets-together-for-one-last-hurrah tv or move EVER good?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Media Messiah I've saved quotes for you

    by Ryanbraun14

    Media Messiah: For your sake, knowing that you have high aspirations and alot of ambitions (alot of time too much of both) I hope you learn that being a writer means reading all you can--books, scripts and i would say more importantly-books on writing and the industry.. I have countless books on the craft of writing, some from class, most from finding them myself, and i pulled some quotes for you:<br><br>"YOu've probably heard about this or that famous writer who couldn't spell or whose grammar would have horrified his seventh grade english teacher. That's what editors are for, right? Wrong. In today's market, that writer would have a difficu7lt time getting his work considered seriously."<br><br>"People sometimes think they can tackle a book without spending any money or effort on training. They expect their book to be top-notch without going to writers' conferences, taking classes, or learning the craft of writing. Even if you are very talented, you need instruction and networkingin order to develop your writing to the fullest potential. If you haven't invested yourself in learning to write, you are wasting your time seeking an agent." (translation for MM: you don't learn writing from TV or reading scripts or writing treatments or considering Joss Whedon your mentor because you watch his shows closely (MM seriously said this)<br><br>I have more but funny people just finished downloading, so if you're still here by tommorrow i'll continue

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST


    by SonicRiver

    In defence of Joss, have you seen the 4th episode "belonging"? This episode is *better* than epitaph one, gives topher a soul, and shows that joss was just hitting his stride. It is pretty sad that Fox have pulled the pin with 9 episodes to go, because "belonging" indicates that at least half of them will be killer.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 9:54 p.m. CST

    Why does Friday kill

    by bigpale

    Why does Friday kill sci-fi shows. Nerds only PRETEND to have lives on Friday Night. Everyone knows they're home. Turn on the TV nerds! Adopt a show!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST


    by SonicRiver

    Friday kills because ratings are not perfect. Such a small selection of people are used to represent the viewing population, that a few cool people with a life on a friday night can seriously distort the results.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:16 p.m. CST

    I Am Simple Happy That The Plants' Dollhouse...Has Burned...

    by Media Messiah

    ...down. No more Talkbacks for you to assail good people!!! Bad Karma, became your Instant Karma!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:19 p.m. CST

    Heroes nominated for People's Choice Award

    by lockesbrokenleg

    One fan votes.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:23 p.m. CST

    this is 100% whedon's fault.

    by coachaaron

    he had more than enough dead sci-fi shows in front of him to know not to sign this deal with FOX. we all knew that dollhouse wouldn't be given development time from the first news leak of the plot and lead actress. i'm done with whedon too, because no matter how he crafts a show, it not worth getting invested in, when you know it will be canned so quickly. the man needs to wake the hell up and stay away from national tv networks.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:28 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    Herc--first, by siaying the next episode is the best by far, i assume that means that you have already seen it, so you clearly have the inside info on Dollhouse... so why post in a talkback about smallville--a show that the ratings have gone up from the start of the season--saying that cancellation was imminent?<br><br>Meanwhile, you keep touting dollhouse with barely any hint in your articles that it was nearing cancellation... of course, all of us knew it'd be cancelled, but you clearly have an in with Dollhouse, enough to sell the next episode, so where were the 'dollhouse in danger' reports?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:37 p.m. CST

    Terminator: SCC

    by Miles_Teg

    Sarah Connor Chronicles got killed for this POS? Dollhouse can't even save it's ass when given a second chance.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:41 p.m. CST

    You Donkey-Raping Shit-Eaters...

    by MJohnson

    I hate you Whedon haters. Fuck you right in the ear. Now go watch Stargate: My Dickhole, or whatever the most recent spinoff is...

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:45 p.m. CST

    whedon haters

    by Ryanbraun14

    i love angel buffy and firefly, but Herc's obsession with whedon made me want dollhouse to fail. i wanted the packers to keep favre instead of letting him go to the jets, and hated him playing for the other team... then i had to read all these bloggers who are all over favre's dick and they have made me want to see favre fall apart and embarrass himself.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:46 p.m. CST

    "i hate you whedon haters"

    by Tall_Boy66

    A) that's redundant B) why does it personally affect you if they don't like particularly what he does.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 10:53 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Actually, it's called Stargate: My Anus

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11 p.m. CST

    Fuck FOX..the have all the SciFi they need..


    it's called FOX news. Nothing they report is real as is backed up by facts. Fuck em in the ass for what they did to Terminator:SCC.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:16 p.m. CST

    SpyGuy: That Is What I Have Been Saying...

    by Media Messiah

    ...the show needed to open with the Dolls becoming fully aware of their situation...and fight to get out of it, or, you awaken them, and make them aware of their circumstances and deputize them as agents to perform risky missions ala Joe-90, but instead of hearing words like, "You're right, or that makes sense", from fellow posters (plants, most certainly)...I was subjected to a campaign of personal attacks, week after week, after week? Well, as they say, God don't like ugly. You get back what you give-out in the world. <BR><BR>Too bad these arrogant MFs didn't changed the with what I was suggesting, and or the things that you wrote about?

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:18 p.m. CST

    sad for the people that need the $, not weedon

    by Meadowe

    Ever since he kicked Charisma Carpenter to the curb I've had no respect for him. hope the cast and crew find new work that lasts a long time real quick.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Ryanbraun14: Actually, I Have Had The Classes

    by Media Messiah

    And I know people that can buy you and Joss Whedon about a thousand times over and have money to spare, however...they can be jackasses, just like you!!!

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST

    I wonder which show..


    all the former cast of BSG will go to. V looks good for the pickings. I can smell it rotting already.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:31 p.m. CST

    Well, Ellen Tigh is going to be on Heroes

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Sure sign that show will get killed next.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:32 p.m. CST

    PS: And...

    by Media Messiah

    I have been in the industry longer than Whedon. I grew-up in the business. You clowns assumed that I was joking about what I said...or making it up for other reasons? Well, no, everyone doesn't lie on the internet, at least I didn't...and not that this industry is anything to brag about, as it's filled with crooks and users. I was simply trying a way around that, a short-cut for the sake of a friend. Well, I had given-up on that a while ago, as my mission of mercy was interrupted. I have other in-roads, and I am back to that.<BR><BR>You know, when you can see a person, or a business operation...headed for a cliff, you can't always stop them, though you may yell a clear warning. Dollhouse, was bad from the beginning, I just saw the holes in the show, and I gave my opinion to solve them--and I had my motives (see above), but I was right about my observations, and that is the point, no matter what my motives may have been.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:37 p.m. CST

    right about your observations?

    by Tall_Boy66

    An observation is a matter of opinion and therefore subjective and therefore can never be proven right or wrong.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:39 p.m. CST



    Best news I've heard all day. Heroes is already a walking corpse of a show. Maybe it would be the double tap it needs.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:40 p.m. CST

    I can't believe it....

    by Heckles

    ...wasn't cancelled months ago. It was just a bad, bad show. You could have shown Dollhouse in 5 minute clips during American Idol commercial breaks and it still would have been a 1.5.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST


    by ThusSpakeSpymunk

    America takes one step closer to solidifying its hatred of all things genre, all whimsy, all imaginatinon. America is on its way to the dull tedium of workday sitcoms and cop dramas. HOORAY! KEEP IT UP, GUYS! Within 10 years, we can make sure no child has a single thought in his head beyond his job and raising a family.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST

    Oh, and I'm GLAD they cancelled JOHN DOE

    by ThusSpakeSpymunk

    Did you ever hear about the final answer of what was going on with JOHN DOE? The creator revealed all - turns out ... surprise! ... it was God. He saw God, forgot everything about himself due to AGAPE LOVE but saw the face of the universe and knew everything about everyone. HOLY SHIT THAT'S TERRIBLE.

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:58 p.m. CST

    dushku now has plenty of time

    by brabon300

    to sit on my face....thank you fox

  • Nov. 11, 2009, 11:58 p.m. CST

    Josh Whedon sucks!

    by Chief Joseph

    Thought I'd misspell his name just to get Media Messiah going.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:14 a.m. CST

    Anyone else think that the problem with Joss Whedon is nepotism?

    by SonicRiver

    I mean, the guy had his brother and his brother's girlfriend writing the show, and pretty much every actor on the show had previously worked for him in Buffy, Angel or Firefly.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:26 a.m. CST

    "i would still use her shit as toothpaste"

    by supercowbell5THECOWBELLHASSPOKEN

    You are a sick fuck

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:33 a.m. CST

    Not sad

    by Alientoast

    Fox feared the browncoats and chose to renew this flacid turd over T:TSCC which was massively improving as it found it's stride with the John Henry arc. I blame Dollhouse for Terminator getting canned so I won't shed a tear now that it's murderer is canceled too!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:58 a.m. CST

    Bring back Firefly

    by criticalbliss

    And forget that Serenity ever happened...

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:59 a.m. CST

    Fox was well established in the 90's!!!

    by kguy1326

    They could put anything on any night and it did decent. Mainly cause back when The X Files started Fox was known for edgy shows. NBC, CBS, and ABC were boring on Friday nights. X Files was fresh and new. Fox thrived on risque shows. You had Married With Children, Herman's Head, In Living Color, Martin, The Simpsons, and more. There was only so much of ABC's TGIF one can take. Once Full House, Family Matters, Boy Meets World, and Step By Step got stale The X-Files stepped in and was exciting, scary, and different. Dollhouse just never grabbed me at all. Doesn't hurt me any. Friday night shows just aren't must see shows. If 24 or Idol was on Friday, it would do well. People would stay home and watch.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1 a.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Yeah, I'm sure Fillion will want to leave Castle to go back to that series that got canned after one year.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:01 a.m. CST

    Maybe two good shows...

    by p0llk4t that list Herc posted.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:03 a.m. CST

    I like most of Whedon's stuff

    by veritasses

    but frankly, DH didn't deserve to stay on. Being in the death slot never helps but you can't blame everything to the death slot... Oh, well. Everyone has their winners and losers. I look forward to whatever he comes up with next.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:10 a.m. CST

    The problem with Dollhouse

    by criticalbliss

    The concept doesn't grab because (like Spyguy mentioned) people can't fully connect with the lead characters if every episode is episodic by nature (due to mindwipes, etc.). How can it have an overarcing goal for the protagonist? <p> I, too, am amazed they cancelled Sarah Connor for THIS. That said, FOX is death for genre shows...

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:12 a.m. CST


    by criticalbliss

    Unfortunately, you're right. Though Firefly is the one serial SF show I find I miss. It's also the only Whedon show, in my opinion, worthy of the hype.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:29 a.m. CST

    What would be a better time slot than Friday night?

    by thedarklinglord

    Seriously. There's absolutely nothing else to watch on any other network on Friday nights, so the competition should be minimal, and Whedon's hardcore audience is primarily geeks, dweebs, and nerds who aren't likely out drinking, playing darts and pool, dancing at clubs, or getting laid and, thus, at most would have to reschedule their D&D or Halo night to Saturday. Perhaps it just suggests that Whedon's fanbase isn't large enough to keep the show afloat, or the show just isn't any damn good? <br> <br> The cancellation was pretty much inevitable, and it's really Whedon's fault for pitching/selling the idea to Fox to begin with. Seriously, after Fox killed Firefly, how many Whedon fans were going to give Dollhouse a chance, knowing that if it wasn't an instant smash hit Fox would put the ax to it? Why get invested in another show that might only get 13 episodes? And, really, no matter what Whedon does, even his most loyal fans are waiting for another Buffy or Firefly, and anything that doesn't live up to those shows are going to be met mostly with bored indifference. <br> <br> And if Whedon's fanbase is really that huge, he needs to consider doing either direct-to-video movies or television series. Find someone to bankroll an entire season - 16 to 21 episodes - of a new project, advertise the hell out of it with trailers and teasers on TV and the internet, promote the hell out of it at conventions, and then release the entire season on DVD and Blu-ray. Because, honestly, these days I can rarely be bothered with watching ANY show on a week-to-week basis. But if I can buy the entire season (for a modestly priced $30-$40, depending on number of episodes) and watch 4-6 hours in a chunk, I'm way more likely to get into the show and eagerly await more. Because that's what happened with Sons of Anarchy. I watched the pilot on TV but I really wasn't all that captivated - despite my love of Ron Perlman's work - and so I just didn't bother making it a point to catch new episodes each now. But I kept hearing people talk about the show with a great deal of passion and excitement. So when the first season hit DVD, I picked it up while it was on sale, and by the end of the first disc I was totally hooked. <br> <br> But I still don't watch the show on television, because I can't fucking stand those 1-hour crumbs. It's fine for sitcoms, but it's fucking annoying when a show is telling a more complex, involved narrative with multiple intertwined threads. It's like reading only one chapter of a book each week. Quit jerking me around with cliffhangers and unresolved story threads that'll be picked up later; if the story is any damn good, if the characters are engaging and interesting, if the conflicts are truly exciting, I don't want shitty little tidbit installments. Give me one solid brick, one full season, and let me gorge myself on it in a single sitting. <br> <br> Of course, it's television ratings, it's the sale of commercial air time, that keeps shows alive. And by not watching these shows when they're air on television, by waiting for the full season DVD, I'm really only contributing to their death. So, releasing TV series on DVD was both the best and the worst thing that could happen to television programming; it's another way to make more money off a successful show, and thus support future seasons, but it really discourages viewers like me from watching week to week when I can just wait and cut out all the bullshit - the cliffhanger, episodic nature of TV and the annoying fucking commercials - the things that make TV viewing intolerable, and enjoy the show as it should be enjoyed. <br> <br> Personally, I think the time has come for more networks to take chances on direct-to-video shows. Film the entire season (or half season), advertise it through their normal programming and with an internet campaign, and maybe show a two-hour pilot in a primetime slot, but then release it on DVD/Blu-ray. Let the sales determine whether additional seasons are justified. Just a thought.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:32 a.m. CST

    Whedon hierarchy goes Firefly/Sernity>>>>everything else

    by Tall_Boy66

    I mostly just check his stuff out because Firefly/Serenity was so gat-damn good. The only thing that got close was his Astonishing X-Men run and Dr. Horrible. So, right now, his winning percentage is about .600-.700 range, which is pretty damn good. Toy Story don't count, there were a hellvoa lot of writers / story ideas going into that one. And, on the downside: "Do you know what happens when a toad gets struck by lightning" and the Newborn in Alien Resurrection.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:36 a.m. CST

    Damn, I liked almost all those...

    by wuher da brewer

    but Dollhouse.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:42 a.m. CST

    "Whedonites" Need To Get Real

    by Jaydog

    Joss has gotten waaaaaaaay more breaks in this business than most. Cases in point: buffy got low rating on one network, but was picked up by another, where it finished its run. On that same network, Angel was spun off from Buffy and was renewed even after it's poor quality Season 1/unspectacular ratings, and was given lots of time to grow and find its own voice (which it ultimately did). Then we got Firefly, which was a ratings bomb almost out of the gate, yet he was still given the opportunity (and paid) to close off the loose ends with a feature length film, that also bombed big time at the box office. The he gets a shot at Alien 4, and that turned out to be the franchise killing installment it sucked so bad. Then we get Dollhouse, which premiered decently in the ratings, but sank like a rock. yet Fox STILL gave it a second season, undeservedly so. And even after those ratings got EVEN worse, they're still giving this guy the opportunity to produce the full season's order, and apparently will air them at some point. Now can someone please rationally explain to me how Joss has been "fucked over" here? If anything, he's shown himself to be a one-trick Buffy pony, and the moral of his latest failure is this--- HE SHOULD HAVE JUST MADE THE DAMN FAITH SHOW! -J.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:55 a.m. CST

    I have absolutely no originality

    by california_mtz

    Herc, I'm sorry for your loss.<p> I could never get into this show because of the "rapehouse" aspects that Media Messiah mentions. It was just too creepy.<p> Ryanbraun14 - You are my talkback hero tonight. I think your next post should be titled, "5 to 2!!!"

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:57 a.m. CST

    And by the way

    by california_mtz

    Why is Smallville doing so well on Friday night if it is indeed the "death slot"?<p>

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Herc: Will we at least get a proper series finale?

    by _Palmer_Eldritch

    I'd hate to have wasted 24+ hours of my life on this show if it just ends up in the middle of nowhere! <P>(Then again, I invested 9 years of my life on the X-Files and that ended up nowhere. BUt at least it was brilliant while it lasted).

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 2:12 a.m. CST

    More like Shitfly

    by hippie_killer

    I'm just amazed so many people thought Firefly was so great.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 2:31 a.m. CST

    And no way for Fringe to die as well?

    by AsimovLives

    Can somebody do a kindness and move Fringe to the Friday Death Slot as well?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 2:44 a.m. CST

    I think Whedon is overated anyway

    by SithMenace

    I've never liked anything he's ever done. But it's not because I dislike him, it's because I "don't get it". Or so I'm told.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 2:57 a.m. CST

    Its Shame after The Frakes Episode

    by Phategod2

    The Episode Johnathan Frakes Directed was Genius and the stooge who Smalleville is better has terrible taste in television.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:11 a.m. CST

    It was a doomed creepy presence to begin with...

    by tangcameo Charlie's Angels but Bosley gives them a fresh lobotomy after each case. But what really doomed this show was Summer Glau. I'm thinking either she's Death incarnate or if we saw her naked we'd see her flesh is a bit grey and she has several rows of sharp teeth in her jaws. If another show tanks that she's in I'm thinking she's either the new Ted McGinley or The Shark itself.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:12 a.m. CST

    I meant: a doomed creepy premise

    by tangcameo

    I gotta stop posting shit five minutes after I wake up. :-P

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:14 a.m. CST

    never watched it

    by murren

    in 2 or 3 years ill buy the box set out of a bargin bin for half price.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:20 a.m. CST

    The "one trick pony" statement is FAIL:

    by the_patriot

    Proof you say? Joss Whedon wrote the screenplay to Pixar's Toy Story. Not sci-fi, not fantasy, not on Fox.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:23 a.m. CST

    Fox & Whedon don't mix.

    by the_patriot

    Alien 4? Fox Film. Titan AE? Fox Film. Dollhouse? Fox TV Production. Angel, Buffy, Firefly? All Fox TV Productions, regardless of what network they aired on. I don't really care who calls for the divorce, just split the hell up so we can all stop having this retarded discussion about who sucks worse - Fox or Whedon. But in the end, Fox has a MUCH longer record of sucking.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:25 a.m. CST


    by silentbobafett2

    Why on earth did he go to Fox after they screwed him so hard on Firefly!?! If he didn't learn his lesson there - FOx don't care about Sci-Fi, creativity or the audience - then more fool him. And more fool the people who thought this would do well on a Friday night. Bad from Fox. Bad from Whedon. Simply: Bad.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:36 a.m. CST

    The_Patriot: You Left Out The X-Men And...

    by Media Messiah

    ...The Fantastic Four. Joss got sanked on both of those productions by Fox.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:44 a.m. CST

    PS: That Said, Fox Was Right This Time

    by Media Messiah

    Joss Whedon should have turned Dollhouse into a show along the lines of The Prisoner, one that was about the Dolls learning of their predicament and trying to escape...or Whedon should have turned it into a spy show, where the Dolls were turned into cooperative agents tasked for field missions against global enemies. Again, as I said before, there were no heroes on the show, and no villains? No protagonists or antagonists? How do you interest any wide audience in that? You can't? I don't know who was smoking what, or why...but something off was going on here with the execution of this program, the large sum of the problems were in the scripts and the overall story arc?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:47 a.m. CST


    by Drsambeckett1984

    I wanted to like it, but not even Eliza Dushku's fine female form could save this television abortion. <P> The most annoying aspect of this whole cafuffle is that the money wasted on giving this a second season, should have bee spent on a third season of Terminator, a show people actually watched! <P> It just shows the fucked up politics of television. <P> Smallville Rules!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:19 a.m. CST

    @MM : "Rapehouse"? You are a tool, sir.

    by V'Shael

    Although I suppose it should come as no surprise that the SF themes went continually over your head, what with your constant calls for an Alias-Jo90 clone. <p> "Have You Noticed, Most Of The Plant Posters Are Gone From The Talkback?" <p> My god, are you STILL under the delusion that Mutant Enemy staff are HERE and abusing you? That's gone way beyond being funny now, and is actually deeply sad. Still, never mind. Keep at it, and maybe it will come all the way around back to being funny again. <p> Assuming you're talking about the people I think you are (myself being one) then you're wrong (again). But I've noticed that you have the ability to tune out anything which doesn't fit you're worldview so it's no surprise that you haven't actually seen the talkbackers above you. <p> You know, I used to think that you were just a regular Aspergers case (creative, imaginative, tendency towards OCD, low EQ, poor empathy and social skills, inability to complete long term tasks) with borderline paranoid schizophrenia (quite common with Aspergers) who was heading towards a severe psychotic break. <p> But having been exposed now to some of your more OUT there ideas, spawned by years of listening to the Art-Bells of the world, I realise now that you're actually beyond pharmacological help. In five years, if you're not dead or committed, I'd be very surprised. <p> Still, my conscience will be clear. It's not like you were MY patient. So it's not like I failed you.<p> You can't save everyone, and it's crazy to try. That's rule 1 in the psychiatric profession.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:33 a.m. CST

    I'm surprised that this show..

    by MajorFrontbum

    ...wasn't cancelled sooner, it was absolute crap.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:45 a.m. CST

    Really hope it goes out with a creative bang

    by Mr Gorilla

    I think this was a good series, and full of ideas. I have HUGELY enjoyed watching it, but I am kind of glad that Whedon is going to move forward to the next thing. In my ideal world, he'd do loads of different programmes that go to 2 series. The one thing that I feel DOLLHOUSE didn't have was characters that I could really fall in love with. That wasn't the intention, of course, so this isn't a criticism. Indeed, it was bold to do something that was so very creepy. But still, I missed the fond feelings I had for the crew of the Serenity when they sat around eating that horrible-looking cake.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Tangcameo: Actually, The Show Would Have Worked...

    by Media Messiah

    ...if the premise was Charlie's Angels, where the girls get mind wiped after every mission, something that I was forwarding... that it should have been, instead the show wasn't about missions, it was about rich white men getting their grove on with Roofie dosed victims who knowingly signed-up to be high-class prostitutes, which negates it being rape, but the rape fantasy is still present because that is how many of the clients and handlers treated it, as rape.<BR><BR>Look, the show was all about T&A, but Joss Whedon didn't want to admit it, and simply over thought the concept, to cover that fact up, in place of keeping it simple. Imagine the original Charlie's Angels series, with the mind wiping concept, but with smarter dialogue...and relationship interplay? Yes, it would be a T&A fest, but a T&A fest that could also, with the right scripts, serve as a good genre show that would interest a mainstream audience while interesting us geeks intellectually.<BR><BR>As I always said, give the Dolls programmable skills (as they did)...but let them retain their base memories. The only thing that should have been wiped from their memories is certain above top secret information after missions, like maybe if a doll is assigned to protect the President...and finds out the Vice-President is a part of some cabal against the Pres. In the end, the Vice-President is locked-up in some secret prison...end of cabal--but as a cover for his arrest, the government fakes his death as a heart attack. Well, they might wipe (redact) part of our agent heroine's she only knows the official story. The Vice-President is just a nice loyal guy who died of a heart attack, she thinks. He died while trying to help protect the President from some foriegn enemy--but only we, the audience, know about the 5th Column conspiracy that was kept secret. <BR><BR>A show like that would have been fun. To see attractive young women with weapons and hand combat skills, who are asked to join a program that can make them the perfect agents for any mission...ala imprinting them with specific foriegn language skills, piloting skills, computer tech abilities-- you name it, in an instant. This, while allowing us to see their personal civilian lives in-between missions. Their dating lives, failed or successful romances, friendships, etc. That is the show I wanted to see...and what Dollhouse could have been, and should have been.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:54 a.m. CST

    Good...Leno and Ugly Betty next hopefully

    by FlandersBum

    Let's kill these bad series off as quickly as possible please.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:55 a.m. CST

    V'Shael: Go Back To Being A Plant

    by Media Messiah

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:05 a.m. CST

    The problem with half-baked goods

    by The McPoyle Clan

    is that they don't sell, even less so in a cutthroat market.<br><br>I'll kinda miss the crazed rantings in these TBs.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:16 a.m. CST

    Tragic I don't think

    by Brody77

    Seriously, Joss Whedon isn't that talented. Sure, he got lucky with Buffy, but a LOT of that was crap (cough) season 6 (cough) Summer Glau really is a kiss of death for every show she's in, huh? I'd happily have more Firefly - if it was only Fillion, the Baldwin who isn't a Baldwin & Jewel Staite (unless they brought back Book & Wash). The others stank up the place

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:44 a.m. CST

    Sad to see "Dollhouse" is over.

    by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:53 a.m. CST

    Grr. Argh. Stupid enter button... >.>

    by Spifftacular Squirrel Girl

    I was going to add that I think Dollhouse might end up being a border-line cult series some time from now even though it was far from being perfect. <p> Oh well... still get Dr. Horrible 2 and Cabin in the Woods in the near future.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:18 a.m. CST

    Wanted more, but could see it was doomed

    by InfinityWave

    At least here's a cancellation we could see coming since episode 1. The show really grew on me, I'd have watched as many episodes or seasons as they cared to make but you could tell it would never gain mass appeal.<br><br> I'm the 97th person typing this today, but the irony of the show is that the one thing it could never fix was the reason it was made in the first place. Eliza Dushku. If the lead actress had been someone you could connect with -despite- the tabula rasa premise, the show would have had a chance. Eliza is awesome in fight or flight scenes but sucks the life out of everything else. (That's not a set up.)<br><br> Ah well, we get a lot more episodes before the axe falls - more than we ever expected.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah

    by question83

    I don't understand one thing. If you indeed are working in the industry, why don't you go to FOX or any other network, and pitch them your ideas? Did you tried write email or something to Joss Whedon or somebody at Mutant Enemy ? If you are working longer than Whedon in "showbiz" i'm sure you are somebody to be reckoned with, right ? So i'm sure they would listen. So... Go to someone that has an abillity to do your take on Charlie Angels or whatever, and stop talking about "what if Dollhouse was made by me". Cos' it was stupid , and now when the show is canned it's just pointless. You know just do something productive, instead of badmouthing pepole who actually have achieved something in television.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:59 a.m. CST

    I love Dollhouse

    by theGoldbergV

    just to be clear. I'm sad its going, just hoping now that it gets a proper send off. I'm glad someone else somewhere up the page (can't remember who exactly) suggested that buried somewhere within the show is pointed attack on the TV studio system, as this is something I've been thinking for a while. Its not perfect, (outside of The Wire, what is?) but it always entertained me, provided something to think about, laugh at and actors who constantly deliver. When you have a show that can pack in action, one-liners, snappy dialogue, explosions and discussions of existentialism all within 42 minutes (as "Vows" did) and on FOX no less, you know it must be special. It was never going to find a massive audience, but I still think it deserved a bigger one that it found. <p><p>So here's to Dollhouse, I pour a metaphorical 40 all over my keyboard in your honour.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:19 a.m. CST


    by Stabby


  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:34 a.m. CST

    No Offense to Battered Wives/Husbands/Children

    by micturatingbenjamin

    But Whedon's relationship with F0X seems very much like a real abusive relationship. Everyone outside can see that the creep is going to just punch you in the vulva when you come back to him, Joss! Leave the biker! Break his heart!<p>That was crass. But still, who didn't see this one coming? A show on Fox where the lead is a woman who isn't stupid, and doesn't have a giant rack, and no laugh track.<p>Joss Whedon: Are YOU Smarter than a 5th Grader? Yeah? Then why the eff don't you go to the CW and pitch a show. Hell, they're STILL running Smallville. It's not even that great a show anymore. Well, live and learn Joss. Buy some vulva unguent, and pitch another show to Fox. That they will then pitch into a dumpster.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:38 a.m. CST


    by chubtoad01

    Hey Whedon! Stop developing shit for FOX! They burned you once with Firefly, they have now burned you again on Dollhouse! Don't be a loser and stick with the same girl because she keeps giving you a crack at that ass! Find a network that appreciates the geek audience. AND FOX! You keep sending Sci-fi shows to Friday slots to either improve or die. Well hello!??!? Sci-fi fans are geeks...On Friday nights we are at our D&D gaming sessions or playing Friday Night Magic or in rare cases...have a date. We DVR our shows and watch them later. I can honestly say that I never had a chance to watch Dollhouse when it aired...I DVR'd it and watched it later. The same thing with Sarah Conner...when it was on Monday nights I had to DVR it because of MNF, then you assholes moved it to Friday to die.....FOX...YOU SUCK!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:39 a.m. CST


    by Tapeworm2042

    I have enjoyed most of Mr. Whedon's creative efforts. I didn't really get into the first few episodes of Dollhouse. I tried, but it just didn't catch my interest. I did find the doll premise a bit creepy. When not fighting crime the dolls were little more than sex slaves. It's also a bit of a hard sell to expect the audience to connect with the lead when she by nature of the device has no personality regardless of her beauty. In defense of the lovley Miss Dushku, she had the unfortunate task of endearing this lifeless character to the audience. No matter how much T&A and classic Whedon wit, the show just more time than FOX was willing to give. Time is the enemy of scripted television, even deadlier to high concept television. Why waste time and money to allow a show to catch when you can replace it with a cheap and shitty reality show? The X-Files was a different time when FOX was new and had nothing to lose by thowing their eggs in the X-Files basket.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:39 a.m. CST

    @micturatingbenjamin : Yes, it's battered wife syndrome

    by V'Shael

    and no, you're not alone in seeing that. Over a year ago :<br> I have no sympathy for "battered wife" Whedon <p> I mean, sure, you gotta feel sorry for the guy, the first time Fox butt-rapes him savagely in the bar. <p> And maybe even the second time. <p> But there comes a point, as he is shimmying into his slinky red dress, putting on the make up, and telling you that he's going over to Fox's place, that you just go "Hey, it's your funeral dude."

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:15 a.m. CST

    This sucks, but not surprised

    by Mooly

    I was excited when Joss said Fox was giving him the opportunity to make HIS show for S2. Yet it really wasn't any different from S1 with the crime of the week and only 1 ep so far really dealing with the REAL PLOT of the show...the mystery of the dollhouse itself. Dollhouse, from Day 1, should have been a serialized show like Lost. It just didn't lend itself to the weekly shenanigans because nobody really cares when a Doll is in trouble. Dolls have no memory, no personality and no real life of their own. So it is tough to care about them being in danger when they are expendable and replaceable. The BEST eps have been the episodes where we see the real lives (or flashbacks) of the real people...but those have been very few and very far between. I still think this show was a great premise and could have been another Whedon hit. Unfortunately, whether it was Fox's fault or Whedon's, it never should have been a crime-of-the-week show. At least not right away. It should have started off big with the dollhouse itself, and the conspiracies and corporate intrigue and once that was built up, switch to the weekly operations. At least until the characters behind the dolls were built up enough for the audience to care about them, whether in Doll mode or not.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:24 a.m. CST

    I think Whedon was relying on...

    by V'Shael

    the audience caring about whether they'd see the actor/actress on their screen, not so much the character. <p> Even though she was prominent and more or less the same character, did we want to see the Doctor come back? Or did we want Amy Acker on our screens? <p> If true, I can see where he might have gotten the idea from. It seems key to the success of some reality tv shows, shows like Felicity where a change of hairstyle can lose some of your audience. The viewing public is very superficial.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:37 a.m. CST

    Curse your sudden and inevitable betrayal!

    by Cletus Van Damme

    I never got into Dollhouse, but I'm still plenty bitter about Firefly.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:40 a.m. CST

    It Never Recovered from the crap start that it had

    by DarfurOnTheRocks2

    The show got much better, but it was too little too late IMHO.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST

    Smallvilles opening last week was great

    by liljuniorbrown

    The show did not live up to the hype at all. They showed war on Krypton and the destruction of Kandor for Gods sake, how can you not capatilize on that. The Cw needs to realize the only people that are watching Smallville are comic fans and Superman geeks who don't know any better.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:08 a.m. CST


    by Stabby


  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:15 a.m. CST

    what a shame

    by SylarTheCylon

    i hope whedon does something better

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST

    The SyFy Phantom will own Fridays

    by teethgnasher

    Just wait.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST

    I think he's considered a genius in France

    by Rhinosaur

    But in this country he sucks cock. Most overrated behind-the-camera talent in Hollywood. Go read a fucking comic book with your free time, "Joss."

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:24 a.m. CST

    Comic Book theme on Friday nights

    by teethgnasher

    That would be the shit.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:25 a.m. CST

    Has anyone ever bothered to ask Fox execs WHY?

    by Smashing

    Why scghedule a show in a slot proved to doom it? seems a simple enough question, this way the millions they have spent in development won't just be wasted, also promoting their shows better could not hurt.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Curse you, Fox. Curse you.

    by maelstrom_ZERO

    <p>Not that I was a huge fan of Dollhouse, but it was still infinitely more interesting than the majority of crap on TV, and it certainly had a huge amount of potential that was just beginning to be tapped. It's just sad to see any halfway-decent sci-fi show get kicked. And that goes for TSSC, and Brisco County Jr. too. How anyone could cancel a show with Bruce Campbell in it, I have no idea.</p>

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Can't believe it...

    by theeternalhipster

    Can't believe it but looking at Fox's track record with these Sci-Fi shows really puts it in perspective.. I am thankful that we got this much though... But Fox was never willing to give this show a chance anyway all the way from the beginning.. Joss if you are reading this and I'm sure many people have said this.. Don't ever cut a deal with Fox again.. I mean I remember watching the extras on the Firefly DVDs.. Didn't you guys throw a "We Don't Work for Fox No More" party when the show was canceled?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:51 a.m. CST

    Maybe if Harsh realm wasn't cancelled

    by jtp8000

    Scott Bairstow would not have turned into a sexual deviant. I liked that show- of course I liked anything with Terry O'Quinn

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Thank god

    by IForgotAbout19

    Now we'll finally get another season of Flava-Flav Buttfuck's 1 of 12 Librarians

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10 a.m. CST

    @ Smashing

    by Mooly

    I'm pretty sure I've heard Fox execs in interviews say that they put Dollhouse in the "death slot" because that way they could more easily manage expectations. They supposedly KNEW it would mean low ratings and they could plan the show accordingly to build an audience. Yet despite these comments, they still continuously seem surprised when their "death slot" shows get death-like ratings. Seems like they lied about their supposed expectations.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:02 a.m. CST


    by D_T

    Good post. I'm also wondering when SciFi[-ish] shows should be aired. I'm _sure_ there is some multi-million dollar study sitting in the file cabinet of a Fox exec that shows (like you indicated in your post) Friday is actually the best night. <p> Even so, I think this genre is just never going to get big numbers, unless the "scifi" isn't conspicuous at first, and the show engages non-scifi viewers immediately. LOST is a good example of this: there's a huge number of viewers who would +never+ watch something like BSG, but they were hooked by a more conventional plot (at first). Heck, when the show tipped into Scifi/Paranormal-esque territory, it lost viewers, but still sustained enough because of people already having committed 2 years.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:15 a.m. CST

    Millennium was a great show; ahead of it's time

    by Stabby

    Millennium did criminal profiling, autopsies, crime scene investigation and serial killers long before any of the CSIs and Mentalist Mediums die. And it through in conspiracy theory and end times mythos for good measure.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:15 a.m. CST

    And Yet....they will still send Sci-Fi shows there to die.

    by cookylamoo

    Like World War I pilots sent up in ramshackle crates to fight and then fall to earth.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST

    Here's a CRAZY idea.

    by cookylamoo

    Put it on a different night.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST

    Amy Acker needs her own show

    by animas

    I'm not sure if she is the lead in her new show "Happy Town," but she destroys Dushku in acting ability and charisma.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Prediction: Only two more episodes will air.

    by cookylamoo

    And when they tank, Fox will run repeats and release the rest on the Internet or DVD.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST

    FOX is Whedon's abusive girlfriend

    by CornsilkSW

    She keeps hitting him, and he keeps going back to her. Meanwhile, his friends keep telling him so. He should know better by now,... maybe he needs an intervention.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:32 a.m. CST

    I'm no fan of FOX...

    by Margot Tenenbaum

    ...but Whedon was NOT the victim here. Battered wife? HA. This show was in trouble from day one and everyone knew it. FOX was EXTREMELY kind in giving Whedon a second season and they probably only did that because of being made to look like the bad guys in the Firefly situation.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:42 a.m. CST

    Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles sucked

    by Series7

    It deserved to die. Too bad the new movie wasn't much better.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:44 a.m. CST

    The reason Dollhouse failed

    by Series7

    And was only half good, was Dochuku. She just isn't a good enough actress to carry a show like this. Thats why all the episodes that centered around her sucked, and the ones that involved the Dollhouse mystery were good. Usually its the other way around. <P> They needed to hire some British actress and slap her with an American accent, if you really want a show to survive on Fox.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:46 a.m. CST

    Don't you think that JW...

    by MapMan

    ...would have given his left nut to develop a show for HBO or Showtime? Even AMC? I'm sure he wasn't dying to work for FOX again.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:13 a.m. CST


    by Waka_Flocka_Flame

    whedon is a mong

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST

    Cheers Mooly.

    by Smashing

    It would seem they are liars or just don't care about there content at all, just the holy ratings, we need some fan based TV studios, maybe Harry could start one?<p> Doesn't Whedon have any super celebrity fans that would pay for a second Firefly series? he should go out shilling. 8)

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:30 a.m. CST

    I find Eliza D. positively gorgeous and couldn't watch this show

    by The 6th Conchord

    COP: Everything ok here, maam? WHEDON (with icebag to eye) *weeps* "Yes". FOX NETWORK (in dirty wifebeater): She just hit her eye on the door, officer. COP: "Maam, would you like to press charges?" WHEDON: "No, no, it was my fault, I LOVE HIM!" FOX: "That's right baby, I love you too. So how 'bout I give you a 2nd season of Firely to prove how much I love ya??"

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:33 a.m. CST

    Second half of season one was GODLY

    by knowthyself

    Season two so far has been great. What a shame. I'll miss this show.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:41 a.m. CST

    Wasted opportunity

    by OlafGladNBig

    The show had potential, you could see room for developing plotlines that could take this show in interesting directions down the road. Unfortunately it never really had a hook or some excitement that could draw people in from the beginning and for the most part it stagnated rather than developed the situation or the characters. Firefly suffered from this same problem, it started slow and without much of a hook (a lot of that was on fox) the writing and acting was better and by the end of the unaired episodes you could see forward momentum. I think this is a big problem Joss is going to have to overcome if he hopes to develop an actual hit show in the future.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:48 a.m. CST

    We can be grateful

    by lagomorph

    that we got/will get 26 episodes of the show as Joss and his crew conceived it. I liked that the show had an emptiness at its core that allowed for difficult moments and introspection. It was bleak. It was sad. It's thrills came with a heavy pricetag that we are only just beginning to fully understand. It wasn't perfect but it wasn't for lack of vision. Who were the heroes? Who were the villains? Who were we meant to idenitfy with? These are not questions that ever came up for me. At this point in the series' run we have interesting characters in an interesting story in an interesting setting. I don't feel the need to parrot some Guide to Writing 101 and clamor for simplicity. I want more ambitious TV, not less. Dollhouse should be remembered as a noble failure of the medium.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:53 a.m. CST

    "Millennium" debuted on Fri. night and ran for 3 years

    by The Gipper

    ...although even I tuned out of season 3 which sucked big time.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST

    Series7, totally agree

    by Stabby

    this series required an actress of Meryl Streep's calibre with the body of a Playboy Playmate of the Year and Dushku just couldn't pull it off.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:07 p.m. CST


    by frozen01

    I couldn't agree with you less about Firefly. The whole environment, the main characters, the actors (especially Fillion), the supporting characters, the action, the plots, the flashbacks... everything was great about that show, from beginning to the end. It was never slow, never suffered for lack of a "hook". You know what was wrong with Firefly? How many people knew about that show until the movie came out? Nobody did. I was also lucky enough not to catch onto Firefly until it was already on DVD, and I've heard that Fox played the episodes out of order, which I would imagine would confuse the hell out of it. Firefly was bungled from the beginning, when it had just as much potential as BSG, but without the depressing elements that people complain about. <p>Now Dollhouse WAS slow, but I agree with lagomorphy... you could see the future stories developing that seemed very interesting. Unfortunately, most people don't see those subtle things... you have to smack them over the head with a 2x4, like an exploding building or a key character going missing or something. Slow slides into insanity are beyond our collective attention span, it seems. <p>And for the record, Smallville is not better than Dollhouse, just less taxing on the brain. It's lovable, and corny, so I can see the appeal, but ultimately it's pointless, boring and unimaginative... too much like a teen soap opera.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:10 p.m. CST

    Spyguy, I knew something was bothering me...

    by allykatD

    about this show and you hit it when you said (paraphrasing here) the lead is a fucktoy for rich dudes who's mindwiped each episode and actually the most interesting people are pushed to secondary/minor roles. You mentioned Sierra and another (forget which one), while I always thought the show **should** have been told through Paul Ballard's POV. Make it more of a mystery/conspiracy with a character you can sympathize and connect with. Josh has this hard on for Eliza and he makes the rest of us suffer for it when he casts her as the lead. Dollhouse *could* have been an excellent thriller conspiracy story, but as you said, when the lead is a rich man's fucktoy who's mindwiped, well, that is not a protagonist around which a scripted show should focus. Where are the pros that should know this? It's writing 101.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST

    How many opportunities does this yahoo have?

    by Darth_Kaos

    After every canceled show he has another in the waiting. that gets on the air, then it's canceled. This guy (Whedon) is and will always be overrated. Buffy was a fluke, due to timing. maybe, just maybe he'll finally vanish.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST

    jimbojones123 --

    by The Gipper

    "As Joss matures, we will next see inside the mind of what a thirty year old woman's view of the world is." -- you mean like "Herman's Head"? SUCK IT, WHEDON -- "HERMAN'S HEAD" LASTED FROM 1991-1994!!!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST


    by kurgan1

    Gone but not forgotten :(

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:25 p.m. CST

    What are Sci-Fi geeks doing on Friday nights?

    by frozen01

    LARPing. You and I both know it. Every singly LARP I've ever seen has been on Friday nights. We might not be getting laid, but that doesn't mean we're not DOING something on Friday :)

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:26 p.m. CST

    How disappointing was the Millennium/X-Files crossover

    by Stabby

    for all who saw it? I remember so looking forward to that and it sucked big time.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:28 p.m. CST

    frozen, it's easy to get laid in a LARP

    by Stabby

    All you have to do is make a Charisma roll.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:41 p.m. CST

    If you don't recognize Firefly is great you have terrible taste

    by Tall_Boy66

    You know it to be true. Hell, I never watched more than 80 minutes of Buffy/Angel, but Firefly/Serenity was the best damn TVnMovie combo to come out of Hollywood in this decade. So, yeah, bag on Buffy being overrated and Dollhouse sucking and you'd be in the same ballpark, but you are DEAD wrong if you think Firefly was anywhere near being bad.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 12:42 p.m. CST

    VR5 too

    by MapMan

    I was a fan of that show too. It had a lot of potential. The opening credits were quite neat.<br><br>Oh well. At least BTVS gave ASH some more work.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:02 p.m. CST

    re: "Hating Whedon Haters"

    by Ribbons

    When people say they "hate Whedon haters," I'm guessing that -- for the most part -- they're not talking anyone who doesn't like Whedon specifically or his work. But, as I can attest to, it's kind of annoying to be treated like a member of NAMBLA just because you watch Firefly. I know Whedon has a small but vocal minority of insane fans, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't think Herc invited some of it on himself (maybe intentionally, for all I know), but seriously, the glee some of you take in watching yet another genre show get wiped off the air is mind-blowingly petty.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST


    by theGoldbergV

    yes to everything you just wrote. Couldn't have put it any better.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:10 p.m. CST

    Ribbons, HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!

    by Stabby


  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST

    I thought the show was improving

    by Professor_Bedlam

    I thought Dollhouse was getting better this and smallville should be on at 8pm either tuesdays or weds. So it can get the coverage it needed.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:37 p.m. CST


    by Ribbons

    ...oh, right, you're the "Silly Whedon fan, chicks are for dicks" guy. Good to see another one of your typical clever responses.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 1:48 p.m. CST

    "been in the industry longer"

    by oisin5199

    since no one has called MM on this dubious statement, let me remind you that Whedon was the third generation of TV writers in his family. His father wrote for 'Alice' (among others) and his grandfather wrote for the Andy Griffith, Donna Reed, and Dick Van Dyke shows (among others). And Joss himself started with Roseanne in the 80s. I think that pretty much qualifies him for growing up in the industry. <p> goldbergv, absolutely brilliant stuff. lagomorph, I agree completely.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 2:44 p.m. CST

    Hey Whedon Haters - What DO You LIke?

    by Damitol

    Dollhouse was neither the best show on TV or Joss's best work - but it was a fun show with a unique premise and good characters, which is very rare these days. I like a good trolling as much as the next person, but I’m always surprised by the amount of hate that any Joss Whedon discussing dregs up. What the haters never do is give the rest of us an idea of what Joss and his shows are being judged against. We get it – you hate Joss and his vision. So what genre shows light your rocket? Which writer’s/producer’s/director’s offerings get you excited. The amount of time I have to watch TV is limited. With Dollhouse gone I’ve had some time open up, so instead of spewing unexplained vitriol, school me on how to best spend that hour each week. Extra respect points if you can explain "why" as well.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    What do we like? Lost, FF, V, Star Trek, Star Wars, BSG, you know any show that's been on the air for more than 30 years.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST

    Firefly problems

    by OlafGladNBig

    Firefly when it aired had serious problems and it all came down to meddling from Fox. They never showed the pilot which was much more compelling than the train heist episode they ended up going with. The order they decided to show the episodes was piss poor, they didnt really gain much traction and forward momentum until about the 5th or 6th show and then they cancelled it soon after. The best episodes of the show aired late in the run and they never gave the show a chance to build off of those successes.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:09 p.m. CST

    Stabby: Crossover was good X Files but poor MilleniuM

    by growltiger

    So Millennium Group conspiracy was resolved to be zombies in the basement? Sigh.<p> Although It was not the series finale I wanted for MillenniuM, but it was a decent crossover.<p> I liked seeing Frank Black back and that he got custody back and was able to walk off into the sunset with his daughter, Jordan. That was most satisfying. And as a stand-alone X Files adventure it was very good. I liked the biblical puzzle about it being first and 18 during the Notre Dame game. Mulder figures out later that Frank Black was referring to Revelations and not Notre Dame's field position. Vintage characterizations for both. And, of course, there was the Millennial New Year's kiss between Mulder and Scully to wrap the episode.<p>

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    Strange Luck

    by SmokingRobot

    Was an awesome concept and a good show. Very original. 'I'd love to settle down, live a normal life. It's my dream. But it's never going to happen....until my luck changes'.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST

    I don't hate Joss Whedon.

    by Margot Tenenbaum

    But I also don't feel obligated to defend everything he's ever done. I also don't feel the need to defend genre TV for its own sake. That's nuts. <p>I REALLY liked the first three years of BtVS, enjoyed the following two and despised the last two. I LOVED Angel all the way through. I found Firefly to be headache inducing and was disgusted by Dollhouse. So I guess I'm judging Dollhouse against Joss' stronger work and finding it lacking. <p>I've said it again and again: I just don't think they thought things through -- and if they DID, I'm not happy with what that thinking produced.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST

    Looking forward to seeing some of you on the internet chats!

    by Internet_Chat_Helper

    Internet chat is easy and fun!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:07 p.m. CST

    I don't hate Whedon

    by lockesbrokenleg

    I'm sure he's a nice guy and all. What I hate are these weird ass fans who think they have to remind us every ten seconds how wonderful Whedon is.

  • because he genuinely believes it to be true. Like Douglas Adams' Electronic Monk, he can believe up to 16 contradictory things without breaking a sweat, and has perception filters to avoid uncomfortable facts. <p> This is how he can remain convinced that some of us posters are M.E. staff, claim that we only ever posted in Dollhouse talkbacks, and then that we've now vanished because the show was cancelled, despite abundant evidence to the contrary.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    doubleARon had the most lucid take

    by heroic_duo

    And Media Messiah? Has it occurred to you that we wanted to see the show Joss wanted to do (good or ill), and not the show that some sad, self-important troll thought would be best?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:21 p.m. CST

    anybody on here read the post about the Monolopy movie?

    by theeternalhipster

    I'm sure it has been said. But Fox cancels Dollhouse and a movie about the board game Monopoly gets green lit? What the hell?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Yeah. I thought it was a joke. Monopoly the movie?

    by V'Shael

    What's next, Snakes and Ladders the movie? Ludo the movie? <p> It worked ONCE, with TWISTER, but that was a special case.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:32 p.m. CST

    Question83: It Is Complicated

    by Media Messiah

    My contacts are in flux. Years ago, I could have walked something in, no problem...but things have change. Certain doors open...and certain doors shut. I wasn't ready as a writer back then, but I had the access. Now that I am ready as a writer, the access isn't so clear. I'll point to Ellen on Oprah, just days ago. She said at one point, after she came-out, no one in the industry who she had been close the executive level would return her phone calls? I recall this also happened to Duran Duran. This industry is a "What have you done for me lately attitude"...that is how they think and act. There is an exec, one that I have referenced here before, he is the most powerful executive in the music business, bar none. I was hanging-out at his mansion years ago, and could talk to him as easily as I am talking to you, but in person, any time I wanted. Then something happened, that changed that dynamic. He was really big then, already a legend, then he became bigger...when and where everyone pretty much knew about him...and access lessened greatly. He knows me, I know him...but this is the type of a guy that you just can't email anymore...or get on the phone, or walk in his office anymore. I haven't checked his Fortune 500 status, but he has got to be a billionaire several times over now, as artist who work for him, at least several are worth half a billion dollars...each, alone? At that level, these guys often will cut-off their own I am exaggerating that last point somewhat, but...really, people become arrogant with fame, money, and power. Michael Jackson's family couldn't even contact him most he largely cut them off. Well, these aren't just tales of myth and lore...they actually happen.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:45 p.m. CST

    Heroic_Duo: Joss Said That The Show's Writing...

    by Media Messiah

    ...was not what he would have liked it to be, and that the show needed to be fixed, and said that he was working on fixing it. I am paraphrasing his comments, but that was the import of his own personal view, one which happens to square with mine. The show needed a fix. I offered some ideas...and people have the right to ignore them, however, I feel that my suggestions successfully offered what Fox was asking for...and what most of Joss fans were complaining about Dollhouse missing.<BR><BR>You know, Joss Whedon proffered a now famous quote, he said..."Sometimes the dumbest guy in the room may have a great idea, so you should listen to everyone's opinion." Again, I paraphrasing him, but you get the idea. Maybe I am the dumbest guy in the room, after all, I didn't go to school in Europe like Joss did, but the story revision I suggested for Dollhouse was on the money, and would have worked.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 4:50 p.m. CST

    They shouldn't have canned Terminator: TSCC

    by Timstuff

    The ONLY reason why Dollhouse had acceptable numbers last season was because Terminator fans were watching it at 9 once Terminator was over. As soon as Terminator got pulled though, the Terminator fans all left with it, leaving Dollhouse with nothing but the hardcore browncoats. I loved Firefly and Serenity, but I honestly did not care for Dollhouse and stopped watching it during the first season. Well look what's happened now. Dollhouse couldn't survive without a lead-in, and yet Terminator was able to last 2 seasons with no lead-in whatsoever. Shame on you Fox for never giving TSCC a chance, and then giving Dollhouse a chance it didn't deserve.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:15 p.m. CST

    mmmmmm....Dark Angel....aahhhhhh

    by Ang_Lee

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST

    Why do all of Whedon's fans call him "Joss"?

    by Tall_Boy66

    Like they're on a personal, first name basis like he's their Buffy writing pal. It's creepy.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:22 p.m. CST

    What will this mean for Supernatural talkbacks

    by jbs9200

    Oh my Dollhouse canceled !!!!<p> What will this mean for Supernatural talkbacks?<p> I weep. I truly do.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST

    Internet chat online, now!

    by Internet_Chat_Helper chat/underground.html

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    They're the same dorks who where "Whedon is my master now' T shirts, despite the fact no one outside of the net knows about him.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    On a less sarcastic note ...

    by jbs9200

    On a less sarcastic note ...<p> Dushku was the least interesting part of the show. I thought her ass was a bit cottage cheesed in that dominatrix suit they had her in . Much more interested in Victor, Sierra, and the Doctor.<p> I want to see more Epitaph 1. <p> And it freaked me out that Adel w played a bicycler in an episode of Spaced. Kept waiting for her to put Simon Pegg in The Attic. <p>Which, BTW, I want to see The Attic before we go. I assume it'll just be a Raiders of the Lost Ark row-upon-row of hard drives, but still.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:44 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    thegoldbergV: BRILLIANT post. I tip my hat to you... that post to media messiah was better written than media messiah's 'script' across the board -- funnier, more entertaining, more coherent, more purpose, more insightful, more clever and to the point. Well done. <br><br>How good was it? So good that both myself and herc enjoyed it, and for the same reasons.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST

    lockes....... you ignorant cunt!

    by DrMorbius

    Were doesn't have an h it it!<P>And thanks for accusing me of spamming when I posted that I was grateful to our Armed Forces, on Veterans Day, you ignorant cunt.<P>Why don't you stick to what you do best? You know, FELLATING your blow -up HURLEY DOLL! Bon Appetit you ignorant cunt!<P>And just so there's no confusion, you are an ignorant cunt!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST

    lockes...or wear...

    by DrMorbius

    *They're the same dorks who where "Whedon is my master now' T shirts, despite the fact no one outside of the net knows about him.<P>But EVERYONE on the AICN boards know you for the ignorant cunt you are!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:18 p.m. CST

    Now its time to concentrate on the Buffverse.

    by ZodNotGod

    Good. This was a waste of everyone's talents. To Whedon I say, BRING BUFFY TO THE BIG SCREEN!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:25 p.m. CST

    Whedon going back to FOX...

    by Zahaladeen

    ...was like Tina going back to Ike Turner.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:28 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Whatever fucktard. You wouldn't know a good TV series if it had sex with you.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:44 p.m. CST

    lockes.....remember this?

    by DrMorbius

    Locke's like that little piece of shit in Jabba's palace by MattmanReturns Aug 26th, 2009 04:26:20 PM That Salacious Crumb little fucker. Annoying as fuck, but his screaming is hilarious, so you keep him around just to point and laugh at him.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Yeah, and I remember you like to talk about your love of Joss Whedon.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    OOOOooooh, fucktard, did you learn that one on the short bus? And apparently you can't remember, show me where/when I have ever talked about my love of Joss Whedon. Can't can you? Cunt!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:39 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Hey, asshole, your D and D group misses you!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:52 p.m. CST


    by slkboxrman

    i had no problems with the show...thought its been awesome from episode 1...its the haters and idiots and the intelectuals that need to find a connection with echo but found it frustrating she was different from ep to ep, but not realizing that there was a character to identify with, i leave that to ignorance and stupidity, and because of that, another great show has passed...thanks u idiots !! follow me on

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 7:53 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    your Bumblebee Doll (Strap-On Model) is readying its Sphincter for your Friday Night 'Lightsabre' ritual! SkyFelcher Family! You Ponce!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST

    On, ...the...bright...side?

    by MapMan

    One, benefit, of, Dollhouse, being, canceled?, that, we, won't, have, to, endure, any, more, posts, like, this, from, a, certain, delusional...poster???????????

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 8:59 p.m. CST

    we, can hope????? AMENDIFIED: we can, hope,,,???

    by chromedome

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Hey fucker. You left your Bruce Campbell lovefest doll at your buddy's house the other night.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 9:49 p.m. CST

    Internet Chat is interesting and fun!

    by Internet_Chat_Helper

    While visiting the Internet, why not visit some of the internet chats? They really are interesting and fun!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:34 p.m. CST


    by DrMorbius

    You CRETINOUS CUNT. It was funny when you said you call your anus the "Stargate." Your Transformer Cosplay group aren't really Stars, or does it mean that they pound your ass so hard you see 'stars.' You better use more of your 'Luke Skywalder Lube', don't throw the bottle away when you're done, it's a collectible! Only 2 more to complete your 24 piece set!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 10:51 p.m. CST

    Immense potential for one show, wasted..

    by CeejayNightwing

    On a network that has no vision what so ever. I'm no Wheddon fan but the show was pretty good viewing. The concept alone created so many possibilities for where the story could go that it was always intriguing to watch its development. The last episode a few weeks ago with the rapist doctor was excellent and a good indicator of its potential. Hope he gives it a good wrap up with the remaining episoes!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    LOL MEDIA MESSIAH!!!!!!!!`

    by Ryanbraun14

    Media Messiah said: "You know, when you can see a person, or a business operation...headed for a cliff, you can't always stop them, though you may yell a clear warning."<br><br>Media Messiah, I have on multiple occasions brought up the fact that i'm schizophrenic, trying to get through to you... you don't seem to realize that YOU ARE THE ONE HEADED FOR A CLIFF! THERE'S NO STOPPING YOU! I'VE GIVEN YOU CLEAR WARNING!

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:07 p.m. CST


    by Tall_Boy66

    I just want to point out this golden nugget by slkboxrman a few posts up that may have passed some TB'ers by.

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:08 p.m. CST

    Also, we're being attacked by an Internet spambot here too

    by Tall_Boy66

    Is Herc too depressed to check the talkbacks anymore?

  • Nov. 12, 2009, 11:56 p.m. CST

    Didn't like it.

    by ParagonComplex

    There. I said it. I just didn't like Dollhouse except for the Epitaph 1. Hurts for me to admit that since I'm a Whedonite. I dearly loved Buffy and Angel. Hell, Buffy is my favorite series ever. Dollhouse just never felt like a Joss Whedon series. Not even a little bit. If I hadn't have known he was involved I could have never guessed it. It's a shame, really. I also hate to say that it isn't Fox's fault. They gave the show another season. They advertised it a lot before it debuted. It had huge hype. It just wasn't that good. Sorry, Joss, love ya, but better luck next time.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 12:04 a.m. CST

    Epitaph 1 was the pilot for the series I wanted to see

    by CornsilkSW

    Seriously, that episode did more than the rest of the series combined. Here's hoping he runs with it and makes a b-budget technohorror webisode series out of it.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 12:14 a.m. CST

    @Ryanbraun14: quick point

    by V'Shael

    From previous talkbacks, he's admitted that he actually suspects he has a mild form of autism like Aspergers, and yet he has never bothered to get himself diagnosed. <p> What does that tell you? Even when *he* thinks there is something wrong, he won't see a professional. So why would he bother seeing one, based on what a talkbacker would say?

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 12:25 a.m. CST


    by loonatic

    well .... glad to know the creative people behind it can move on to other, hopefully better, projects

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 1:58 a.m. CST

    Ryanbraun14: I Have Stopped Responding To Plants

    by Media Messiah

    I'm not even bothering to read your post. This show only got a second a pass to Whedon due to his promise to fix the series...but he did not hold-up his end of the bargain with the network, hence, he deserved the cancellation notice. You can't lie to people whom you do business with...spend-up their money based upon continued false promises...and hope that they will continue to look at you as a person with integrity.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 1:59 a.m. CST

    Firefly should have been an HBO series.

    by thedarklinglord

    You've got pirate cannibals and space whores. What more do you need? And, had it been on HBO, we could have seen some bouncing titties instead of just Fillion's ass.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 2:06 a.m. CST

    See what I mean?

    by V'Shael

    His posts should come with a warning "May contain nuts".

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 4:38 a.m. CST

    From a "Whedon is my master" guy...

    by V'Shael

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 5:32 a.m. CST

    @RyanBraun and RKDN

    by theGoldbergV

    Woah there, now you're making me blush guys.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 7:07 a.m. CST


    by V'Shael

    Blush away sir, the post was inspired and the praise is deserved.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 12:41 p.m. CST


    by Stabby

    I haven't seen that episode in a while, but the way you describe it actually makes it sound a lot better than I remember it. But, I'm inclined to agree with you about it being a poor Millennium ep but a decent X-Files ep. I just remember being disappointed, because the crossover was a big deal to me.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 1:30 p.m. CST


    by Stabby


  • Nov. 13, 2009, 2:21 p.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    C'mon fuckers. where's those websites!

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 2:30 p.m. CST

    Why do we need Dollhouse when we have Sarah Palin?

    by Stabby

    The perfect blow-up doll for conservatives version.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST

    I never watched it. Did it have lots of references to...

    by Snake Foreskin

    lesbian kissing, oh-too-clever alternate uses of words, and a penchant for buggery? I think all Joss Whedon shows are now made to fail. Because, like Quentin Tarantino, his best work was all at the beginning of his career. Now he and QT should just buy a house together and give one another blumpkins whenever they feel nostalgic.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 6:34 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    This was PRICELESS to read:<br><br>On, ...the...bright...side? by MapMan Nov 12th, 2009 08:41:55 PM:<br><br> One, benefit, of, Dollhouse, being, canceled?, that, we, won't, have, to, endure, any, more, posts, like, this, from, a, certain, delusional...poster??????????? we, can hope?????<br><br>And then, IMMEDIATELY following that post:<br><br> AMENDIFIED: we can, hope,,,??? by chromedome Nov 12th, 2009 08:59:46 PM<br><br>Seriously, I am honestly asking if ANYONE here has seen such a wonderful and hilarious example of talkbacker teamwork like that--first post: so funny. second post: made both even funnier... whats so impressive is how you two got those two posts in a row.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 6:45 p.m. CST

    and media messiah (if hes still here)

    by Ryanbraun14

    I can always spot a red flag when one feels that if they name drop, or tell others they know these very wealthy people, their words command more respect. Only true douchebags think that shit is impressive... personally, i am not a douche so will not elaborate, but i've had a very lucky and privileged life, and have several friends with famous parents and a handful are currently agents, and we keep in touch, but if you are lucky enough to have these things in your life, you know that if you call upon these friends for their connections, you'd better DAMN WELL KNOW that you are ready to use that connection... these people are asked for favors ALL THE TIME, chances are, if you have or plan to approach them many others have and will at some point approach them also. <br><br>It makes PERFECT sense to me when i read media messiah saying those doors have shut--due to his delusional nature, he thought he was ready to walk through those doors and was wrong, and since he has not gotten a psychologist, psychiatrist and medication, he thinks he's ready as a writer NOW, which he isn't????????????

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 6:50 p.m. CST


    by Ryanbraun14

    i want to read MM tweets so i have things to chuckle about all day.

  • Nov. 13, 2009, 8:32 p.m. CST

    D'House: Frustrating Epic or Epically Frustrating?

    by buffywrestling

    [huge post warning] <p> So I haven’t been around much since the news broke that Dollhouse was being cancelled. No, I wasn’t curled into a weeping mess or playing with my BtVS action figures to dull the pain & re-live the good ol days; it was something much simpler. I was reading. <p> And there was a lot to read. <p> Articles by professional TV critics, bloggers by the dozens, comments by the thousand. Literally. Just between AICN, Whedonesque & Tvbythenumbers, there was around 1500 posts. I’m not even going to discuss twitter other than the fact that it takes 5000 tweets to get something trending & the cancellation news had the dollhouse hashtag rising throughout the day. They scaled the gauntlet from anger, resignation, vengeful, funny & thoughtful. Me? I was frustrated. <p> I first felt the tugs of frustration before the series even began production. Yes, Whedon & crew had just come off of Dr.Horrible, which turned out to be a financial & critical success no matter your opinion on it’s quality, but the wave of over hype & excitement had me a bit wary. I think a lot of people felt that way but, as the machine churns on, you get caught up in it; the speculation, the anticipation. Fox had given it a prime spot on Tuesday! New format 90 seconds commercial only! Yay! <p> Then someone wasn’t paying attention when Joss pitched the show as a film noir-ish look at defining identity. Too depressing. Too dark. Too confusing a setting. Too frustrating. It gets delayed, then shoved to Friday Night Death Slot. Most everyone saw the writing on the wall then. But wait! They are pairing it with T:SCC and they are going to promote it as a sci-fi block! Yay! <p> Then the ratings come out for the first few episodes. T:SCC is beating Dollhouse in overall viewers but Dollhouse is beating T:SCC in the demo, which stayed that way until T:SCC’s cancellation. The trademark dialogue is lacking but not non-existent. Overall, the pathos for the subject matter is not there. Ballard is struggling but he comes off as such a dumbass you wonder how he passed his FBI entrance exam. The dolls are just sort of there. There is no reflection on the results; not by the dolls themselves because they can’t, not by the people that hire them because they are there, then gone and not by the people inside the Dollhouse because they are there to serve, not ponder. Most of the audience finds this unrelatable. I, who have been at the whims of a few directors & producers & overall goose steppers, do not. I have frequently been on the giving & receiving end of, “It’s not personal; it’s just business” tag line. But episode 6 is coming up, penned & directed by Whedon. Reilly says that they are going to back off on the notes & “let Joss be Joss”. Dancing in the fandom. Finally! <p> After ‘Man on the Street’ , which I thought was one of the tightest Joss scripts ever, Dollhouse became progressively better but still inconsistent. Mo Ryan of the SanFran Chronicle recently said that she prefers a show that will have a few C episodes mixed in with outstanding A episodes rather than a show that will constant deliver B’s. I would too. But it’s frustrating to watch. <p> The ratings bottom out. But the DVR is huge! But the DVR doesn’t matter. The final 13th episode of Season 1 - arguably the best episode of the entire series - won’t be on the network. DVD only. Frustrating. But it’s renewed! Wha? The execs are on our side! They are getting creative too! It’s not about “numbers”, it’s about stability & vision & playing nice & lending a helping hand….warm fuzzies for everyone! <p> But there is another delay. And Brothers & ‘Til Death. Groans are induced. The crossover promos between the line-up develop into actual gagging. Fans of the show ramp up there own vids/websites on how they would like to see the show promoted. You can feel their frustration clogging up every bit of frame. The second season starts and the episodes are shown out of order (3rd ep was supposed to be the 2nd). Now you can finally feel the producers frustration as well, shoving weaker eps to the forefront, so they can save meatier episodes for sweeps. <p> Let’s talk about sweeps for a minute. <p> I think FOX studio has gone above & beyond for this show. I’m not just talking about the renewal. In retrospect, the “miracle” renewal made business sense. It’s cheaper to renew a show with an established base than to take a chance on a newer, possibly more expensive series for a Friday night slot. Because it’s an in house production, the licensing is cheaper. The budget was reduced and the main set has already been built. On the other hand FOX network, more specifically the PR department, is run by monkeys. Horrible promos aired sporadically, incorrect dates, contradicting press releases just days apart…frustrating fucking monkeys. <p> The first 4 episodes of the 2nd season are tracking for me the same as the last half of the episodes for the 1st season. The acting is better, scripts are tighter as they get used to the 6 act process instead of the 3 act, the subtext is becoming actual text (blurg but whatever) and if you haven’t started relating to these characters, it’s too fucking late now. No one cares about grabbing new viewers at this point. No, scratch that. I don’t think they really cared about getting new viewers from the start of Season 2. That in itself is frustratratus maximus. But if you are relating to the characters & the storylines, so far the “1 step forward; 2 steps back” has been interesting. And yes, frustrating. <p> So can I get any more frustrated at this point? Probably. It won’t be with posts revelling in the cancellation in attempts to “shut down the Whedonites” - and seriously that will never happen. Not because we are so many or so vocal but because we are so used to it - and not because of the delusions of the hapless (MM, I’m talking about you! I’m not ignoring you! Hi!) but because of my own expectations. Yes, I have came back around to the very beginning of the entire Dollhouse journey with anticipation for the final episodes. Summer 2-parter. Alexis 2-parter. Alan 2-parter. Diechan getting hit by stray shell casings, covered in blue slime. Eliza covered in green slime. Secret back lot shoots. Concept meetings without having read the script because it is under wraps. Tim Minear writing through the night, directing the 11th episode. <p> If we get to see it without having to wait for the DVD, that is. There’s no guarantee. <p> Fucking frustrating, right?

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 2:43 a.m. CST

    Indeed. Frustrating

    by V'Shael

    But one point you make about Ballard. He was SO incompetant, that I genuinely thought he was a doll himself, at first. Only not a DOLL doll, rather a regular FBI guy who had had his personality tweaked. By being loudly and visibly after the Dollhouse, he discredits the idea of the Dollhouse amongst most other agents, but might smoke out a few. The sort of agents who might approach Ballard with their own info, that sort of thing. <p> The idea was thrown for a loop, when Millie was revealed to be a Doll keeping an eye on him. <p> But then I thought, maybe since Millie was from Adele's dollhouse, Adele wouldn't know if Ballard had been tweaked by a different house. <p> I guess that was one of my problems with the show. I have read a lot of SF where identity tweaking is part of the plot, so I was expecting more complexity and deviousness than the series ever got to show us.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 5:09 a.m. CST

    You weren't alone

    by buffywrestling

    A lot of people thought Ballard was an active. Tamoh isn't exactly the most expresive mutherfucker on the planet, yeah? Kinda wooden-y and doll-like to begin with. I think he's trying for "stoic" but if he wants to see that, he just has to turn his head and see Harry Lennix as Boyd. That man is solid as Easter Island. <p> Plus, I think I got the impression Whedon saying that the original film noir pitch that he was going for would have had more focus on the "detective" (Ballard) other than the "dame" (Echo) he was trying to help. There was one quote by him that made me think that it wasn't entirely concieved as an Eliza Dushku vehicle.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 5:39 a.m. CST

    Buffywrestling: Delusional?

    by Media Messiah

    Maybe...I was, in service of a very sick friend. I think that would make anyone desperate enough to try and make someone's remaining days on this not so kind planet, the best they can be. I had no real time-table on her diagnosis, in respect to life expectancy. She told me the doctors said, she could die today, tomorrow, a week from now...a year...or 40 years--with respect to her brain tumor, they just were not sure. So, was I trying for a wish-fulfillment inspired hail mary terms of circulating my ideas like this...hoping somebody would buy an idea from me? Yes...and I am not ashamed of that, because...I did it for a fantastic human being whom you would be lucky to know--and, like it or not, my ideas were good ones...and certainly would have at least given this show a fighting chance. Maybe they weren't in the direction that Whedon wanted to go with his series, but his series was already headed in the wrong direction as he...even acknowledged, story wise. Was I over-pushy? has a way of doing that if the cause is desperate enough, and wanting to help someone who deserves helping as motivaton, is sometimes all you need. Of course, I am refering back to my friend again. <BR><BR>Now, as far as my industry contacts, past and present, I have always told the truth. I can't say I like most of them, as people, because I don't, in terms of how they run their companies and their personal lives. And they may not like me either, because I have an honor code--to a point. The Devil and an Angel, are like two magnets, you just can't bring them together-- and so, my success has not been in gaining the billions these people have--I'm as poor as a church mouse, success has been in, at least, trying to be a good person, and that is the only real success that matters. Try it sometime, it might grow on you.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 6:12 a.m. CST

    PS: I Am Glad...

    by Media Messiah spurned regard to getting to know you, as you are a bully just like the rest of these unkind people on this Talkback. You don't serve to know me.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 6:46 a.m. CST

    A Clarification, On The Last Sentence

    by Media Messiah

    Not serve, rather--deserve. Not that you asked to know me, but I am glad you saved us both what would have been a wasted trip.<BR><BR>The other day...a nice gentleman called me a good man...and just minutes later, someone else who I know...and related the story to, said the same thing about me. I have heard that a lot this year from several people, about my good character, or what I hope is that, or approaching it. That is all the acceptance I need. It is easy to be a bully, you do it well--cowards do that, but it takes a brave soul to do...and be, the opposite of that, or to try and make the effort. I tried to be kind to you, but you just wouldn't allow it. Thank you for saving me the trouble.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 6:48 a.m. CST

    MM: Calm yourself

    by buffywrestling

    Take a deep breath. Okay? <p> I'm sorry about your friend. But at this point, I'm not sure if your "friend" with a brain tumor is not you. I'm gonna lay some blunt on you: <p> Sympathy gets you nowhere. Pleading for sympathy gets you nowhere FAST with me. Knuckle up & fight your own demons, son.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 6:58 a.m. CST

    Seriously man

    by buffywrestling

    I didn't know me ignoring your posts would like, break you. You okay? It's anonymous hair-pulling on a message board! Don't be delusional and take it so hard.

  • Nov. 14, 2009, 7:03 a.m. CST

    My flirtatiousness comes off as bullying

    by buffywrestling

    THAT was what I was doing wrong.