Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
I'm not sure what I did to get this lucky, but being able to interview Richard Dreyfuss and Teri Garr--stars of arguably one of the greatest science-fiction films ever made, CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND--within a couple of weeks of each other are two of the greatest events in my life. There was a chunk of my life in the late '70s and through the 1980s when Teri Garr was simply the woman I wanted to marry. I'm not sure if she invented a certain type of neurotic, put-upon female type, but she certainly perfected it. She was a gifted comic force, an obtainable beauty, and an actress that made her mark in some extremely influential films in the aforementioned time frame.
She got her start as a dancing girl in no fewer than nine Elvis Presley films. But it was her acting school buddy Jack Nicholson that gave Garr her first speaking gig in feature, in Bob Rafelson's HEAD, starring The Monkees and co-written by Nicholson. Garr had just started working in TV around this time, with a memorable turn in the "Star Trek" Season 2 closer "Assignment: Earth." She also had a recurring role as Cher's best friends on the "The Sonny and Cher Comedy Hour." And then in 1974, things broke out for Garr, landing a pivotal supporting role in Francis Ford Coppola's THE CONVERSATION and Mel Brooks' YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN. The 1970s continued to be good for Garr with roles in the monster hit OH, GOD!, that Spielberg film opposite Dreyfuss, and the seminal family film THE BLACK STALLION.
After a botched attempt to make a big-budget art house film with Coppola's ONE FROM THE HEART (a film I hold very dear to this day) and a role in John Schlesinger's grossly underrated HONKY TONK FREEWAY, the '80s saw Garr taking roles in films that were game changers for the way women were portrayed on film and the way the world looking at female sex roles in society. TOOTSIE remains one of the funniest films every made, and Garr's work earned her her only Oscar nomination, while MR. MOM (opposite a still new to film Michael Keaton) was looked at as ground breaking for its portrayal of a house husband (a role that is hardly unique today). Garr continued to work regularly in film and TV, with roles in Scorsese's AFTER HOURS, starring opposite Dreyfuss again in LET IT RIDE, the Farrelly Brothers DUMB & DUMBER, Robert Altman's PRET-A-PORTER, Nora Ephron's MICHAEL, the political satire DICK, and perhaps most memorably as Phoebe's mother on "Friends."
In recent years, Garr's life has been severely altered by health problems. Although she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in the early 1980s, she managed to keep a full schedule of acting while being a constant advocate for those with the disease. But at the end of 1996, she had a brain aneurysm that almost killed her and took her months to regain certain motor skills again. Less than two years later, Garr appeared without the aid of a wheelchair on "Late Night with David Letterman," and it made for a spectacular comeback. When I spoke to Garr a couple weeks back, she was back in a motorized scooter but looking great. She seemed sharp, maybe a little worn out, but otherwise perfectly delightful and charming. Her answers were not often long and drawn out, but she answered pretty much every question I threw at her, even if it was sometimes with abbreviated responses. She's still funny, sharp, and even a little biting at times. Above all else, she's a legend in my book, and I couldn't wait go through her career and life. Enjoy this talk with Teri Garr…
Capone: Tell me what you are doing in Chicago this weekend, to sort of go through what people can expect, because you're here for the whole weekend it sounds like.
Teri Garr: We are showing the movie YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN tonight and tomorrow night… What is today?
Capone: Today is Thursday.
TG: Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And I will introduce it and tell funny stories about what happened when we were filming it and that’s all. I’ll also be doing a little bit of shopping.
Capone: So it’s some sort of benefit screening, correct?
TG: It’s for MS.
Capone: That’s right. Let’s start with that move, first of all. I seem to remember when you were last on David Letterman, you had seen the musical, am I remembering that right?
TG: Yes.
Capone: So what did you think of it? What did you think of seeing somebody play your part?
TG: You know, I didn’t think it was as good as the movie, but I liked it. It was okay, and I didn’t get to talk about it much on Letterman. Too bad.
Capone: I remember you brought the brain out, though. That’s how I remembered that you saw it. Is it true you were in nine Elvis Presley films?
TG: Yeah. All the bad ones.
Capone: Mainly as a dancer--no dialogue. How did you fall into that gig?
TG: When I was in high school, I read the trades everyday and I saw that there was an audition for WEST SIDE STORY [on stage, not the film], so I went to the audition and I didn’t get the part. But a friend of mine said that they were having a callback on Saturday. I said, “I’m going with you.” She said, “You can’t go, because you weren’t called back.” I said, “I’m going anyway, because now I know what they want." I went, and one of the guys in the play, David Winters, knew Ann-Margret, and she was going to do VIVA LAS VEGAS, and they were in the same acting or dance class together, so he somehow managed to get me a dancing role in that movie..
Capone: So he just saw you there. You got used in one movie and then they just kept calling you back? How visible are you in some of those movies?
TG: Not very.
Capone: What’s your best scene in one of his movies?
TG: There’s a movie about a circus guy, what’s it called…
Capone: Was that ROUSTABOUT? I can’t remember. I remember a few of them you were in. I know, obviously VIVA LAS VEGAS and CLAM BAKE, and I don’t remember what that one was called, but I can look it up.
TG: Either way, Elvis was in it, and I was one of the dancers up on the little stage with him. That’s all I remember.
Capone: How much interaction did you actually have with him during the course of the time you were working with him?
TG: A lot.
Capone: Was is general cast socializing or was it more intimate than that?
TG: It was cast socializing, and I know he had some guy come up to me when we were doing VIVA LAS VEGAS and said “Do you want to come to Elvis’s party tonight?” I said, “Do I ever! Yes I do.” He said, “Well bring your girlfriends and come over.” So he gave me the address, and we went there and there was no party, it was just Elvis watching TV and making comments and we were laughing. There were no chips or dip, so it was not a party.
Capone: Sounds like just a viewing [Laughs]. A “Just watch Elvis” day. I think the first movie that it said you had lines in was the Monkees film HEAD. Bob Rafelson is a great director and that movie has such a bizarre following. People still love it and it’s one of the most trippiest movies ever made and probably written while someone was tripping as well.
TG: You know Jack Nicholson wrote that movie, and he was in my acting class, and he wrote a part for me and other people that were in the class.
Capone: Being in it, did it make any sense to you at the time?
TG: I was thrilled to get a speaking part and get a chance to act, and Jack picked out the costume and so I thought it was great. Actually, Bob Rafelson copied a guy, Bruce Conner, who was making underground films, strange films with cartoons put together, so he made it like that, he copied it.
Capone: You obviously did a lot of TV work around this time, but one of the more memorable was the "Star Trek" episode that you did. Is it true that the character you were playing and some of the other characters in your scenes were possibly going to get a spinoff?
TG: Oh yeah. It was a spinoff, but it didn’t sell. Gene Roddenberry didn’t want it to go, because he was mad at CBS at the time, so he didn’t sell it to them, but it was going to go, but where would I be if that worked out? I would be where Shatner is today, selling airplane tickets.
Capons: [Laughs] What do you remember about that experience and working with the series regulars?
TG: I do remember. I remember that they were great and really nice and Leonard Nimoy said “She’s good” when I was on set.
Capone: Has anyone, over the years, tried to get you to come to one of the conventions?
TG: Yes.
Capone: Have you been?
TG: No. I saw Leonard Nimoy, and he said, “Have you ever been to one of those?” I said, “No.” He said, “Don’t go. You will be so sorry you did.”
Capone: How did you get involved with the "Sonny and Cher Comedy House"? You weren't a recurring character playing Cher's best friends.
TG: They had a summer replacement show and this guy came up to me in an army surplus store, I was trying on jeans, and he said “I’m doing a pilot at NBC tomorrow, do you want to come be in it? Weren’t you in "Star Trek”? I said “Yeah,” so I went and saw him. He said, “OK you are hired.” Then I got to be on "Sonny and Cher," but there were six guys on the show and one girl, me. The guys all got like $600 a week and I got $200, so I would go every week into the producer’s office and say, “I think I should get a raise.” They would just say “Oh, get out of here.”
Capone: Did they even bother to justify that, or were they just like “You're crazy!”
TG: “You're crazy.” That’s it.
Capone: Wow. It’s incredible to think that in the same year that THE CONVERSATION and YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN. What did Mel Brooks and Coppola say to you about why they chose you?
TG: Not really, no. I did CONVERSATION first and then after that I did YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN, but no there was no conversation about why or anything, just me.
Capone: So did you have to audition for Mel Brooks?
TG: Yeah. I read for it, and then they said “We are actually casting the part that Madeline Kahn is going to play, but she doesn’t want to play it, so we are going to call you back.” They called me back and one day Mel said “She doesn’t want to do it, but if you can come in tomorrow with a German accent, I’ll let you try out for the assistant.” So I said, [With an accent] “Can I do a German accent? I’ll be there tomorrow. What time?” I came back and that was it.
Capone: It’s funny. When I watch that movie, you are the sex kitten of that movie. You even got a little Jane Russell laying-back-in-the-hay look going on in the one scene. I think a lot of people hired you after that as a comic actress, because of that film. Is that a fair assessment?
TG: Yeah, I think that is fair, and I got to go to auditions, which I didn’t get to do before. It was “Oh, it's the girl from YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN. Okay, yeah, okay, we will see her.” Before that, I couldn’t go in for those things.
Capone: It’s such a beautiful movie. The black and white in that looks so good. It’s a beautifully shot film. I really appreciate the artistry in that film, as well as the humor.
TG: I do too. Mel was very strict about wanting it to be like that.
Capone: I can imagine. Growing up, I think the first thing I identified you with was CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND and to me, you were the stand in for the skeptics in the audience. As much as we wanted to more identify with Richard Dreyfuss’ character, it was really you that I think a lot of people saw the film through. We would like to believe there are aliens, but a lot of us don’t. I think a lot of people would have reacted the same way you did if somebody in our lives started to act like that. At that point, Steven Spielberg had just come into his own.
TG: He had just done JAWS, so they said “Here, take all of the money you want! Do what you want.”
Capone: I just spoke to Richard not too long ago and I asked him what the difference in Spielberg was and he goes “It’s like Boy and Man. He was a man on CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, because he endured JAWS and made it through and had a much clearer idea.” What do you remember about that shoot? Did you ever get jealous that you didn’t get to do any of the alien scenes?
TG: Of course I did. I was jealous of everything. I guess I was.
Capone: What do you remember about working with Richard?
TG: He was great. I have known him since forever, like back to high school. He went to High School in Beverly Hills and I went in the Valley, big difference. It’s like here and Naperville, so it was different to see him. I knew him before we had ever worked and he was in a little group of comedy players called The Session, and I wanted to be in that too, but I wasn’t! Anyways, he was great.
Capone: Those family scenes still, as much as it’s a science fiction film, to me it’s part domestic drama. That’s how it’s played.
TG: But Steven did and that little girl who played our daughter said, “Mommy, there’s a fly in my mashed potatoes.” I said, “Don’t eat it, honey.” She just made it up, and there really was a fly.
Capone: As much trouble as ONE FROM THE HEART caused everybody, I still think it's a beautiful film. I discovered the film through the soundtrack, because I’m a huge Tom Waits fan. So when I finally got to see the film years after it was made, I actually thought it was really beautiful. I know it was a mess for Coppola financially, but what was it like just shooting it? Was it as chaotic shooting it as it was for him financially?
TG: You're right about the soundtrack; I love it too, it fabulous. It was a pretty chaotic shoot, yeah. There was not a lot of money anyway, so there’s this one story when we ran out of money and he says “We are going to shut down unless you guys want to stay.” The crew said, “We’ll stay for another couple of weeks and we will do it for nothing,” and he said “Alright, let’s get back to work, because time is money.” I said, “No, time is just time now. It is not money anymore.”
Capone: Were you sad to see it devolve the way it did?
TG: It was sad and I was sad that it didn’t do better right away, but it wasn’t comprehensible, right? Francis always said that it was a story of a relationship between a man and a woman form the woman’s point of view. I said, “Where is the woman’s point of view?” I didn’t see it.
Capone: Speaking of the woman’s point of view, you were in a couple of films in the 1980s that were allegedly takes on the woman’s point of view, like MR. MOM and TOOTSIE that were sort of touted at the time as being role reversal comedies.
TG: Because the men dressed like a woman?
Capone: Or did “what women do.” Were you kind of laughing at the men’s idea of what it is that women do or how they dress or how they act?
TG: It was very interesting, because in MR. MOM the director [Stan Dragoti] had never been in a supermarket and he didn’t get it, but there were kids in the movie and a woman would have had to deal with all of that, and he didn’t know what it was, but it came across anyway.
Capone: At the time, people were trying to say that it was groundbreaking, because I don’t think that had ever been addressed in a modern film, the idea of this househusband. In TOOTSIE, which you go your Oscar nomination for, again here’s a man pretending to be a woman and realizing all of the things that women have to put up with in the workplace. Were they even close? At that point you had been doing it a while, was it even close to some of the things that you had experienced?
TG: I thought yes, but Dustin was really the one in doing all of that and getting involved and the minute he put on the makeup, he said, “Now I see why women get so crazy, they have to look good.” I said, “Yeah, that’s it.”
Capone: I read somewhere that you thought maybe [director] Sydney Pollack was sexist when he was making that movie or at least you got that impression?
TG: Oh yeah.
Capone: How did that come across, because he’s worked with Jane Fonda and Meryl Streep and people that probably would not work with someone who was overtly sexist, how did you see that come across.
TG: I don’t want to talk too ill of him, because he’s dead. First of all, he was in love with Jessica Lange and I didn’t like that at all, I was jealous and then she won the Academy Award, but that’s alright…
Capone: You guys were in the same category [Supporting Actress], which was strange, because I think she belonged in maybe another category.
TG: She was the leading lady.
Capone: She was! That’s what I’m trying to say, but still I think that more than MR. MOM, TOOTSIE stands up even today as being a timeless comedy.
TG: Bill Murray was so funny in that.
Capone: One of the films from my childhood that I revisit every once in a while is THE BLACK STALLION, and I think that still holds up as a great family film. Obviously Mickey Rooney was in that film. Were you aware of him as a legend at the time?
TG: First of all, we did that movie in Toronto and we went out in the country to shoot some of the horse scenes, and I had no dressing room, so Mickey said “Don’t worry about it. I’ll straighten her out.” I had to dress in the back of a truck. It was bad. So he talked to me and said, “The same thing happened to Ava Gardner.” I said, “When? What movie?” I'm pretty sure he made that up. But he was great.
Capone: You’ve worked with pretty much the cream of the crop in terms of directors, including Martin Scorsese doing AFTER HOURS with you and that’s a great sequence that you are in. Do you have any memories of working with him? At least in that time in his career, he'd been doing much more intense films.
TG: Yeah, I think he wanted to do a comedy, but I don’t know what you mean “looser.” All I remember from that was “This was the guy that works with De Niro all of the time” and I loved De Niro, and he came by the set a couple of times and I got to meet him.
Capone: You also worked with Robert Altman on PRET-A-PORTER.
TG: In Paris!
Capone: Even better. What do you remember about his directing style? I’ve heard different things from different people about working with him.
TG: He explains it to you and lets you ad lib a lot, which is good, and he sort of lets it go, which was good. But there’s a book out about him now and the book is not good.
Capone: Bad stories about him?
TG: Just not good. They say he’s not nice, but he was nice to all of the actors I thought.
Capone: Did you get much of an opportunity to improvise on movies you had done up to that point?
TG: I don’t think so, no.
Capone: Was that a new thing then, doing it on Altman’s film?
TG: Yeah. I love it. It’s great.
Capone: You just mentioned that you were in the same acting class with Jack Nicholson and I was wondering if that was something that you had done much of even in the acting class, but wow.
TG: Nope.
Capone: I think you kind of reached a newer audience with stuff like DUMB AND DUMBER. What do you remember about working with the Farrellys?
TG: I thought they were great. We shot it in Salt Lake City, so I remember the Mormons a lot, but they were great.
Capone: You were a recurring character on "Friends" a few times with Lisa Kudrow, playing her mother. That is maybe some of the best casting I could think of.
TG: Everybody says that, and I don’t know why.
Capone: She embodies a lot of what I think you brought to the screen.
TG: She copies me?
Capone: No, I would never say that.
TG: She doesn’t see it either, but I did another movie with her and was discussed… Why did they do this? Neither one of us know, but it worked very well.
Capone: Did you play her mother again in the movie?
TG: No, I was just a crazy person.
Capone: And then you were in the film that Andrew Fleming directed, DICK. I think that’s a brilliant film. I think the screenplay is phenomenal and he made a film more recently called HAMLET 2, which I thought was very funny. Do you remember much working much with him?
TG: The girls in that movie, one of them was Michelle Williams and she played my daughter or something. She was wonderful, and she's a big deal now.
Capone: You were diagnosed with MS quite a while ago, in the early '80s? How did that change your life and the way you lived, because it doesn’t really seem to have, at least based on the work you were doing at the time, it didn’t really seem to slow you down.
TG: The only thing that has slowed me down is age. That’s okay, though.
Capone: Was the diagnosis something that you accepted right away, or did it take a while to sink in?
TG: It’s still sinking in. It took a while, but I’m okay. I think that’s the problem with every disease, you either accept it or you don’t or you go jump off of a bridge, so I just decided to accept it and go on with my life, what’s left of it.
Capone: I remember seeing you on David Letterman's show after your brain aneurism, and I remember you on that show a lot of the time over the years and you were always a great guest and obviously he loved having you on.
TG: I hate him. [laughs]
Capone: Do you really? [Laughs] I thought maybe now after what has come out about him lately, maybe you were…
TG: No, I don’t like that.
Capone: So what did you love about going back on that show. Did he just kind of let you kind of cut loose?
TG: Yeah and talk about whatever I wanted to talk about. The last time I went on there was to plug my book, and I looked at him during the commercial break and I said “Have you read the part about you?” He said, “No, I’m not going to read this.” “That’s pretty rotten. What do you think I’m here for?”
Capone: Was he being serious?
TG: He was serious.
Capone: A couple of years ago Tina Fey paid you this real compliment and I think it was in Entertainment Weekly about how she looked to you as the woman in film that she wanted to become as a performer and be regarded the way you were.
TG: That’s very nice.
Capone: Part of the quote is: "There was a time when Teri Garr was in everything. She was adorable, but also very real. Her body was real, her teeth were real, and you thought that she could be your friend." Were you going for a type that you didn’t think was being represented in films?
TG: I don’t know what she was talking about. I don’t know. She made it up, but she’s a great artist, right? [laughs]
Capone: Very funny, just like you. Anyway, they are shutting me down here, so thank you so much for spending time with me.
TG: I hope I didn’t talk too much.
Capone: Not at all. You spoke exactly the right amount. It was wonderful meeting you.
TG: Nice to meet you too!
Capone: Take care.
TG: You too.
-- Capone
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