Cool News
Zemeckis Confirms That Performance Capture Factors Into The New ROGER RABBIT Film!! But, How??
Merrick here...
Yesterday we learned that the writers of the original ROGER RABBIT film are returning to script a proposed sequel (details HERE).
That news came from a video snippet over at MTV, in which Robert Zemeckis briefly touched on the project. A longer sampling of the same interview has now been posted, in which Bob reveals that performance capture (a la BEOWULF, A CHRISTMAS CAROL, and the forthcoming YELOW SUBMARINE) would play some part in the new ROGER RABBIT film. The question is: considering the "universe" in which ROGER is set, how will the technology fit in, exactly?
I wouldn't use it for the cartoon characters, because I think they should stay two dimensional...I wouldn't dimensionalize Roger.
[EDIT]
All the other characters they would have fun with would be magnificent in performance capture technology. It would be really fun.
...says Zemeckis in THIS VIDEO INTERVIEW over at MTV:
So, what the hell does this mean? Will humans who get thrown into Toon Town now be realized via performance capture? Will the sequel be entirely performance capture - featuring Toon pests who MoCap characters discriminate against because they're not rendered as well, or rendered differently? Will any live action/"real world" components feature into this project at all? Or, as MTV speculates, might performance capture actually be part of the storyline? I.e. might we have performance capture characters interacting with live action characters...alongside Roger and his Toon squad...as the new/upstart Toons in town?
Really intrigued...
Readers Talkback
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Please make it stop...
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More concerned with the tech than an actual good movie.
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CGI vs 2D vs Live action?
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Based on a trailer? Considering all of Camerons films in the past have focused on the human story and not the special effects.
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Based on a trailer? Considering all of Camerons films in the past have focused on the human story and not the special effects.
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This would be the only cool news about this shitbird.
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Moah.
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Pretty obvious to me! If he pulls this off, I might forgive him for the past 3 pieces of crap he made, as he was maturing the technology to go back to Roger Rabbit and, maybe, BTTF4!
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The 50's?
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Nov. 3, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST
Don't the majority of people HATE performance capture?
by santoanderson
I do CG for a living, and the uncanny valley is avoided like the plague. It looks weird, the only advantage is an infinite CG camera system (which never looks right with realistic humans). These Performance capture movies just seem like a higher quality video game mocap cutscene. I wish Zemeckis would just step back and realize that it really does look weird, and would return to shooting movies with these things called actors and cameras.
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Talk about milking a dead horse. I mean, I love me some Roger Rabbit, but, isn't it a little past time for a sequel?
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and we see an end to "Mo-cap". It's horrible and kind of pointless.
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Derivative stories? Check. More focused on tech first and a story to fit the tech instead of vice versa? Check. And btw I actually liked the avatar trailer I saw with This Is It, I just don't think it'll do anywhere near as good as what jim cam or 69th century fuxxx are hoping.
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crap,this sucks
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Basically in flicks like RR, Space Jam, etc. it looked seamless for its time, but if a live action character interacts with a toon, you can somewhat tell they're not really grasping them or touching them and it's kinda floaty. Probably mo-cap certain points when they're engaged in wacky hijinx or something, but so subtle you don't even notice.
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I am just wondering because it is so vogue to bash Lucas.
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My once favorite director is a mere shell of his former self. Work with real fucking people!
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With a young Christopher Lloyd, and a Michael J Fox that could hold a glass of water and not get totally wet?
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Hopefully RR2 will follow some storyline where the toons have been upstaged and abandoned to live in Toon Town, now that they are no longer the media darling. Now all the Motion captured characters get all the movie work and the toons are ignored as they aren't cool anymore. All real world humans should hopefully still be live action just like in the first Roger Rabbit. I want to see toons, real life and motion captured characters all interacting with each other.
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Zemeckis, plesae do Ender's Game. Your mo-cap is the only way to get older kids actors who are more capable, yet animate them as age appropriate kids. Your mo-cap is the only way to do the Battle School, the Fantasy Game, the Buggers, the space battles, and also the only way to appropriately do the violence with the kids.<p>This is Star Wars meets Harry Potter. Who wants a billion dollar franchise? I'm not remotely kidding. Zemeckis, make this happen.
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Nobody wants this performance capture, it's very LUCAS to want to control EVERYTHING on your set. Nobody sees how insane it is to perfomance capture human beings to try and make human beings on the computer?
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Beowulf didn't seem to suffer from it. I think the trick is to either focus much more attention on animating the eyes correctly, or just stylize the animation to the point that it isn't hyper-realistic. Polar Express is his only effort that suffered from the uncanney valley.
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think of it. 2D cartoon characters are being threatened by the CG characters of Pixar and Dreamworks by their cutting edge look. Everyone is forgetting about 2D, they're old hat now.
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Nov. 3, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST
Well maybe it's for historical characters/actors who are dead?
by Johnno
Like maybe a CG version of Roger's creator or something? All the ol' dead artists in caricatured form? C'mon, you people are reactionary and lack imagination. We don't know what he's doing yet and he probably has some sort of reason for it. So how about we calm the fuck down?
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... if the old, 2D toons degrade/discriminate against the new CGI/MoCap toons, you could do some VERY interesting, adult things with segregation, 'interracial' relationships (between toons, not a la Cool World), prejudices, etc. An entire Toon Rights Movement could be in there. With good writing, that could be awesome stuff!!
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What do you mean that nothing since Back to the Future III has been any good. Look again at his resume since then.<p>Death Becomes Her Forrest Gump What Lies Beneath Cast Away Polar Express Beowulf<p>All very good movies except Polar Express. So he has one miss mixed with those movies? Most would kill for that resume. Name five directors with a better resume over their last six movies.
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What Lies Beneath? Really? I hated that fucking thing. Damn trailer even gave away the first 2 and a half acts of the movie!<p>And I totally agree that LIVE humans, MoCap, CGI, and 2D toons all together would be pretty fantastic.
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Nov. 3, 2009, 12:23 p.m. CST
But can they again strike that golden deal between disney and WB
by Geomancer21
I mean, one of things noticed and loved by fans of the movie back in the day was the use of both disney and WB characters. The duel between Donald and daffy is still one of the best scenes.<BR><BR>Can they do that in this day and age?
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Good movie!
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If there's money to be made...
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He churns out bland, soulless crap. This mocap thing he does is utter, utter shit.
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That is all. There IS a great movie waiting to be made, but it needs live action, it needs continuity with the first movie, it needs a decent story and great dialogue, it needs an excellent villain to match Christopher Lloyd's mental Dr Doom. Fact.
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That's his reason for the last few flicks being mo-cap. Granted, it makes sense considering studios are basically paying for him to experiment and what not, but hey.
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If so I haven't seen her in anything snce Serial Mom, so I hope she can still do the voice.
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Nov. 3, 2009, 12:44 p.m. CST
Aging, unemployed Roger Rabbit visits a CGI rejuvenation clinic.
by Darth_Inedible
...he emerges as a grotesque, waxy late '90s CGI monstrosity and finds work in cheap direct to video horror films.
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Make Sunset Boulevard the template of the second. Roger is the Norma Desmond of animation replaced by 3D CGI characters. He hires a female screenwriter to come up with his comeback scipt. " They may have dimension, but do they have depth...?"
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Get over yourselves, you dumb fucks.
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... Simpsons? South Park? Venture Bros? Duck Tales? Toy Story? Pinky & The Brain? I'd lose my shit five times over if Futurama ended up in there. How updated can we make the Tooniverse? Can we get those Popeye fuckers to loosen up this time?
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(lifts finger) Motion capture THIS!
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Really, that's all I want to hear about this project. Everything else is just technical bullshit.
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But it was made for adults, whereas all these other properties are geared towards children.
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nothing else matters
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Zemeckis needs to stay the fuck away from Mocap this time around. There is no place for it in a Roger Rabbit movie... ESPECIALLY not for humans. It would defeat the whole fucking point.
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I'm not going to write this off when it's not even properly in production yet. The story could be mind-blowing for all we know. But motion capture... really? Sigh. It always looks oddly bland. In theory it should present infinite possibilities. Instead we get Jim Carrey with a slightly longer nose.
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. . . having the humans transform into mocap 3d toons once they cross the boundary into Toon Town. Just as long as the scenes that take place inside Toon Town aren't the majority of the movie. <p>In the original, the Toon Town sequence was only a small part of the entire story. And I don't think seeing Bob Hoskins inside Toon Town was nearly as funny as seeing toons in the "real world".
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...I'm no expert, so I might be completely wrong here, but I seem to remember that the WB characters were portrayed using their earliest designs. Like, there's a difference between "early Bugs" and "later Bugs", or "early Daffy" and "later Daffy".<p> Unless I'm very much mistaken, aren't the original designs for Bugs and Daffy old enough now that they have reverted to the public domain? After all, there are really old Merry Melodies cartoons available for download at www.archive.org.<p> So, as long as they stick with really old-school characters, copyright might not be an issue.
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... Beowulf and Grendel. I love that flick.
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Nov. 3, 2009, 2:54 p.m. CST
I like the idea of using today's Animated characters...
by ThePorkChopExpress
Gollum, Dug the Dog, Wall-E - you could go on and on!
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...Roger & friends all out of work because these fancy pants CGI animated characters are getting all the movie roles. If this isn't what he has in mind then I don't know what he's concocted.
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Enough already
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..he's on about the same level as jar jar binks in terms of annoying animated characters.
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Has no one told this imbecile he's a dick yet? Hopefully, A CHRISTMAS CAROL will flop, then his mo-cap fetish can be put to bed once and for all.
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Jar Jar Binks-levels of annoying? Rog doesn't come CLOSE. First off, the rabbit's got far more expression in his eyes than that soulless CG freak, so I can empathize with him. Second, he's funnier. WAY fucking funnier. Third, Jar Jar sucks ass. Fourth, see third.
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Instead of the villain in the first film being a toon disguised as a human, the villain in this sequel will be a human controlling a horrible ugly evil mo-cap puppet that seeks to destroy both toons and humans alike.
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Considering Zemeckis' relationship with Disney, would he really make a movie where Pixar is essentially the villain?
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No, no. It's Toons vs. Mo-cap. Pixar would fall under the category of toons. Zemeckis would fall under the category of crap.
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... human actors.<p> Like, throughout the 20th century, human actors and toons have been at odds with each other. Each side thinks the other steals their jobs and siphons movie budgets away from them.<p> Then this dastardly villain, perhaps Judge Doom's grandson, comes along with mo-cap technology, and the human actors and the Toons set aside their differences to fight a common enemy.<p> The villain's name could be either Robert Lucas or George Zemeckis. Either one would work. The villain's henchmen are Jar Jar Binks, Gollum, and the conductor from The Polar Express.
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Yes! That's it! Genius! I would watch that movie.
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Roger Rabbit already has some of that element in it. Remember where Betty Boop is waiting tables because Jessica Rabbit has basically replaced her? CG toons don't have to be the new villain just because you use it in the storyline.<p> <p> The real question is, if Roger Rabbit is a film noir, will the sequel be that too?
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But will CGI Yoda fight Muppet Yoda?
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Since the original was a period piece set in the 1940's, set the sequel in the early to mid sixties when the motion picture shorts were replaced by weekly televised characters. Fred Flintstone, Top Cat, The Jetsons, Jonny Quest, etc. At least it makes thematic sense, and keeps it in a period setting.
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Maybe Toon Town and Muppet Town declare war on each other! Heh heh heh...
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...besides her tits of course!
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LOL for a joke in such bad taste, that was hilarious. <p> As for Zemeckis, I've only seen Beowulf as far as his mo-cap stuff goes, and that wasn't too bad. However, a Christmas Carol looks kinda weak, and he should absolutely NOT do Yellow Submarine. That's one classic that needs not updating. I think he should go back to using live actors, which he probably will eventually...but I wouldn't mind seeing one mo-cap classic from him (maybe it could be Roger Rabbit?). <p> As for comparing him to Lucas and Cameron. Well at least Lucas and Cameron still use live-action and real actors. I mean Cameron's only using it for characters that it SHOULD be used for, and when you actually see photos of the Na'vi and humans interacting, it makes complete sense why he did it, as it could not have been done any other way. He still believes in working with actors and live-action, and practical FX when possible, he's just using CGI to create a world that doesn't exist, and make it very surreal. That I can respect...and he's doing some great things with the tech.
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just kidding. who gives a fuck.
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Can someone explain that to me? I mean to me, motion/performance capture is a tool that you use when you need to create a character that can't be realised any other way, such as Gollum for instance. But what is the god damn point of doing motion/performance capture on human characters when you could jus, oh, I don't know, film the fucking actor playing the character via regular means. I mean is making humans look less real adding anything to a film? I just don't fucking get it, I really don't.
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In order to create a young version of Eddie Valiant. Unless you believe it is better to just recast. I fucking HATE mocap, BUT it could open the door to some movies we never thought that could be possible, EVEN if it's through Uncanny Valley dead eye freaks: Roger Rabbit might be the first, if it worked, who would oppose to BTTF4? Gump & Company? A 1930s set Indy flick?
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Vs 3D.
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I think it's going to be a mixture of all 3.
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Nov. 3, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST
More possible plot-lines that rape your childhood but make me ch
by Royston Lodge
- Toon Town goes to war against an army of stop-motion warriors, led by a maniacal villain named Harryhausen.<p> - The long-time residents of Toon Town are fighting back against the forces of suburbanization, led by young upstarts with names like Simpson, Hill, and Griffin.
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...was how that topic was supposed to end.
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What if the mo-cap is used not to animate human characters, but to help the toons interact more naturally with the actors.<p> Can you hide mo-cap sensors inside clothing, like inside a hat or a sleeve or something like that?<p> If you film the live-action with these sorts of reference points, then it could make it way easier to make sure the toons are looking in the right spot, moving around objects more naturally, bumping into objects and people at JUST the right moment without being kinda "floaty", and stuff like that.<p> It's a possibility. Fingers crossed.
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We're talking about 2D cartoons interacting with 3D mocap people? And no 'real' humans? <P> If that is the case, screw that. That not only defeats the purpose of the whole thing, it's actively insulting to me. I wouldn't let someone pay me to see that. <P> If that's not the case, then there could still be hope. Too early to tell.
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more like disgusted. fuck this guy.
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Fuck you haters. FUCK...YOU. And to those who say he should work with real actors, learn what mo-cap is, FAGGOTS. I can't wait to see A Christmas Carol. I can't wait for Yellow Submarine. And hopefully he will do a sequel to Roger Rabbit.
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No matter what Zemeckis does, he will never top the all-time greatest performance capture device ever invented... the MOTION PICTURE CAMERA.
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It's taking an actor and then drawing over the top of them with something that isn't quite as real looking or believable. <p>And calling people faggots? How much more of a stereotypical hate-filled internet douche can you be? I mean, really? IndyCollector, you are an absolute fuckstain on the clean sheets of mankind, and no mistake.
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This is where I draw the line! NO FUCKING MO CAP!!! PLEASE GOD!!!! NOO!!!! ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND?!!!!! NO CG. Hand drawn is timeless. The original RR is timeless. Why the fuck would you want to fuck up your own legacy, Bob?!!!
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retire.
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...that my childhood's sphincter can't even hold in shit anymore. I hope Zemeckis doesn't join in on the horrid violation.
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Isn't it obvious yet? EVERYTHING besides the toons would be motion capture. Zemeckis has clearly given up on presenting actual people on actual celluloid. I could understand if the animation didn't so closely resemble the original actors but the whole process just seems like wankery.
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That's what I think?
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From a friend of a friend that works at his company. Says he's like the guy who got picked on all the time as a kid, and is now rich and powerful and just an all around asshole to everyone around him. I wonder if its true. I'm sure that will make AsimovLives happy to hear it.
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Are there ANY nice people in it?? I'd bet that damned near anyone who is in front of the camera, directs, or writes is a major league cock.</p><p>But I can see Zemeckis as a top notch prick...just like Spielberg reportedly is.
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I agree that it seems kind of silly to use mo-cap on stuff that could just as easily be done with live-actors, and actually look real. The thing about mo-cap, especially of the quality found in Zemeckis films, is that it just makes it extremely hard for the audience relate to the characters without accepting it as a card. And truthfully while I did notice a jump from The Polar Express to Beowulf quality wise, I don't see much change in a Christmas Carol. <p> However the reason I think Zemeckis prefers it is because he gets complete control over every little detail, and can change anything he wants, whenever he wants. He also has control to change the look of the actor/character to a look that live-action probably couldn't achieve without cheesy makeup. Plus from watching the Christmas Carol trailer, and certain scenes from Beowulf, it seems that some of the action does lean towards the cartoon side, and instead of merely green-screening it, he can make it all look like everything's happening in the same world. Still though, we've seen plenty of live-action with fantastic CGI and green screen integration. So with that in mind it does seem like every one of his stop-motion movies could have been done live-action, but I'd imagine it would be more costly, and he couldn't really alter actors looks.
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my bad
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Forrest Gump days, and I actually got a letter and a signed pic from him. It was so cool. I still have them. BTTF and Roger Rabbit are classics. I wish he'd do another Romancing the Stone. Maybe one final movie.
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I always wonder. I've never heard anything bad about the guy ever, which makes you wonder if everyone is just mum on the subject, or if he really is nice.
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Nov. 4, 2009, 4:45 a.m. CST
This is the first time I have had a problem with Zemeckis
by NomoredirtyjokespleaseweareYanks
i mean his last 3 films have been this way, yet I am willing to cut him some slack, let him experiment and see if he can 'change cinema.I saw a quantum leap from Polar Express to Beowulf and thought that if he had more time he might just pull it off. The guy made some of my favorite films ever for fucks sake. <p> This however sounds terrible
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What the fuck is his obsession with MoCap performances? These films don't have the cache of true animated films, and don't seem to bring out the performances of live ones. Plus, the eyes are creepy. Why even bother doing MoCap characters against 2d animation? They'll be separate either way, unless the 2d characters are also CG and part of the render. That would be pure yuck though, nothing sucks as bad as the current CG Mickey Mouse.
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Nov. 4, 2009, 4:59 a.m. CST
Classic characters=2D, Pixar = CGI, Humans= Live action.
by GibsonUSA Returns
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Nov. 4, 2009, 5:02 a.m. CST
I don't think that they should be dimensionalizing BIG LOB.
by GibsonUSA Returns
He should stay 2D, should he appear in Roger Rabbit. <BR><BR> As others have said, it would be awesome to see 2D Bugs Bunny next to 3D CGI Pixar characters and stuff...I wonder if they could get Family Guy and stuff in there too, it would be awesome.
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...a Motion Capture CG Remake of Michael Jackson's Moonwalker.<p> <p> Think about it - He's doing Yellow Submarine, Michael Jackson is more popular now than when he was black.<p> It would make perfect sense.
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Fucking Zemeckis. Can anyone claim The Polar Express, Christmas Carol, etc are watchable? This man doesn't care about story, he cares about gadgets. He is about to rape his best film.
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Polar Express, Beowulf, Scrooge; the first thing that springs to mind when anyone sees these movies is 'wow, how much better would this be if it was live-action?'.<p>stop wasting time and money, ffs.
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im just sayin'................
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ya know I've only seen Beowulf (in 2D) and it really wasn't bad (I mean it was at least an animated movie aimed at adults, how many of those get released in theaters these days?) so I haven't written Zemeckis off yet, still I hope it's not CGI humans with cartoon characters, what would be the point of that?
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The toons and the live actors must join forces to stop the soulless evil zombie mocap creatures who wander the landscape taking all their jobs for no pay and saying "BRAIIIIIIINS!" and costing studios $230m a film, destroying the economy. Roger drops a fucking safe on a Na'avi and I'm gonna see this 8 times, Robert Zemeckis, it's a promise. You kill a Na'avi in your movie and I'll watch it enough times to bankroll the entire project.
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will Joe Pesci reprise his role? will they get Dakota Fanning to play the lil blonde girl? will ILM make the Jackson-Former? will Jaden Smith play the "cool" black kid who thinks he can dance? so many questions.
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Fuck him.
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This kind of makes sense from a technical standpoint. Wasn't there a line in the original movie about when Betty Boop says work is hard to come by because she is in black and white? If that is the case, then the "newer" cartoons would be CGI or Motion Capture if they are sticking to those same rules. But does this open up the doors for a Gollum or Jar Jar?
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I love the whole series... I've read every single book including overly simple "ender in exile" <BR><BR> An ender's game movie is guaranteed to flop if they use age appropriate actors. Card was a moron for insisting that they be so young. A) it kills any sexual tension and relativity between the characters and B) they simply aren't believable. Tell me how they could film that movie and not end up with a bunch of scenes that are like Goonies and Explorers. <BR><BR> And mo-cap would just make it worse.<BR><BR> Make ender 16 and make the older kids be in their early 20's. It's the only logical thing to do. After all, that's a real life age gap.... a teen wanting to hang out with college kids. The distance between a child and becoming an adult. <BR> Card was an idiot to have made age be so important to his plot ( I think it was his own Hubris actually ) and don't get me started on Bean. His story when you actually visualize it is just like "Our Gang"
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