Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here.
Since its rousing debut at this year's Sundance Film Festival, the film briefly known as PUSH and now known as PRECIOUS: BASED ON THE NOVEL PUSH BY SAPPHIRE has been the little movie that could. With a little help from executive producers Oprah Winfrey and Tyler Perry, PRECIOUS has been getting as much if not more attention at film festival than most other bigger-budget and high-profile works doing the festival circuit. And make no mistake, the film is powerful and agonizing in its portrayal of Precious by newcomer Gabourey (Gabby) Sidibe, who plays the teenage mother of two and lifelong abuse victim. And with the Best Picture pack opening up next year to 10 nominees, PRECIOUS seems like a lock, with Mo'Nique undoubtedly getting a best supporting actress nomination as chief abuser and mother to Precious.
A great deal of the film's strength comes from choices made by director Lee Daniels, a one-time casting agent who went on to produce of such films as MONSTER'S BALL (the film that got Halle Berry her Oscar) and THE WOODSMAN (the film that should have gotten Kevin Bacon one as well). In 2005, Daniels directed his first film, SHADOWBOXER with Helen Mirren and Cuba Gooding Jr., and last year he produced the little-seen, but still quite good TENNESSE, a drama featuring Mariah Carey that actually garnered positive reviews (Carey is almost unrecognizable and quite good in her role as a social worker in PRECIOUS).
PRECIOUS played recently at the Chicago International Film Festival, and it was the day after the very moving screening that I got to sit down with Daniels and Sidibe to talk about the film, understanding full well that they've been answering many of the same questions for the better part of nine months. The two hadn't seen in other in a while, so their time in Chicago was a bit of a reunion, so you'll see how occasionally they wander off into their own conversation. It was actually quite conversational and fun to talk to Sidibe, who is experiencing this sort of treatment for the first time. She's so different in terms of both her personality and her looks from the character of Precious that it's difficult to fully comprehend that it's the same person. Enjoy the makers of PRECIOUS…
Capone: Hi, Gabby.
Gabby Sidibe: Hi.
Capone: How are you? It’s great to meet you.
GS: Great to meet you as well.
Lee Daniels: Ain’t It Cool News…!
Capone: What is that look for?
LD: That’s one of the blogs I read, Ain’t It Cool News.
Capone: That’s a good sign.
LD: I like Ain’t It Cool News. Do you read it?
GS: Sometimes, yes.
LD: It is famous, right?
Capone: It’s one of the oldest. It’s been around for about 12-13 years.
LD: I’m so bad about this… I’m getting older…
Capone: I was there last night at the screening. What a completely unique experience for me. I can’t say that I have ever been a part of anything like that. The emotional rawness of both the film and the audience reaction. To say people were crying doesn't quite cover it; they were wrecked. It feels to me like you have built a film that in a lot of ways is meant to heal people and let people know it’s okay to heal from an experience like this. Is that a fair statement?
LD: Yeah. It evokes all sorts of thinks that I had no idea it would evoke in people, you know? I do it and I feel a certain way, and then I see other people feel other ways and laugh at other spaces and stuff, so it’s taken a life of it’s own, which is sot of frightening.
Capone: At this point, not to bring the metaphor home too far, but it is about nine months since Sundance, and you two have been talking up this movie for a long time. Do you just want to get it out there now and let paying people, non-festival crowds see it. Let the movie out to breathe?
LD: Part of me does and then a lot of me doesn’t, even though it does, it really really does. We were at Toronto and there were two screenings and the first screening had the cast come out, Oprah… It was really a spectacle with light bulbs and everything and I have a moment backstage of praying and I have this epiphany, like I cannot believe that this is happening to this film. I was so overwhelmed with humbleness and humility to God in this spiritual awakening, you know. Really just happy. I show the movie and then… Was it Toronto that we had two screenings? No, New York, excuse me I’m sorry. It was New York not Toronto. So we show the film, big hoo-hah, cast and all, Q&A they booed us in the beginning, because we were late…
GS: Oh right, because of Mariah.
LD: We don’t know if it was Mariah… Sorry wrong festival. The New York Film Festival, we get there… New York is the hardest crowd, and I’m a fucking wreck. I’m just like slayed; you know… somebody was like “Stop telling people you are nervous.” I said, “What the fuck am I supposed to do?” [Laughs] My hands are shaking. We all say our goodbyes on stage, and then the film festival director asks me to stay to introduce the film a second time, but I knew that the party was with the posse, so I had to say… It was the first time I had intro'ed the film with over 400 or 500 or 600 people and I wasn’t there to monitor the audience and engage it, because each audience is it’s own beast and I knew that I was leaving my baby behind for the first time and going off and celebrating it’s birth, letting it walk on its own and in New York with those scumbags! [laughs] They scared the shit out of me.
[Everyone Laughs]
GS: I’m from New York!
LD: So am I!
GS: It was like being a Yankee for me, because it was the first time it was being shown in my hometown and so it was different. I loved being in New York.
LD: Did you? You come at it from a different perspective, Gabs, like you know… To me, it’s like birth. I got the freaking placenta and so it’s really…
GS: That’s perfectly normal.
LD: It was hard to let it go, but also exhilarating because I was able to go in and party for the first time. I danced.
GS: Did you?
LD: I was dancing, man, as soon as I got into the door with the cloak clerks.
Capone: So what about you, because now you have been part of a few red carpets that probably mirrored the things that we are seeing in the fantasy sequences in the movie. What is that like for you? The same question to you, are you just excited to have it out there with anyone who wants to see it be able to see it whenever they feel like it?
LD: He’s going back to his original question, Gabby. I didn’t answer it.
Capone: You did, but I want to get it from her perspective, because it is different. You have had movies open before.
GS: It’s a lot like being pregnant. It really is. I want to get it out, but I also want to be pregnant forever, because this part is fun, people are interested in me now.
LD: They’re always going to be interested in you, Gabby.
GS: I know, I’m an interesting person [Laughs].
LD: And a more interesting actor.
GS: Thank you. That doesn’t really matter, but all of this excitement leading up to is actually fun, and how do I know that this isn’t the best part?
Capone: When you leave the cradle of the festival circuit and the critics who all love the film, yeah it is a little bit scary, because now it’s just people and people are very different.
LD: People, I’m not worried about. I love people. It’s the other people that get online and start… that we can’t watch.
GS: I’m weird about people, because I live among them [Laughs]. I like them; it’s just that I’m scare.
LD: Why?
GS: I don’t know. I’ve got a family… I’m nervous. Also with the differences, it’s not your face on that screen. People see PRECIOUS and think that they know me and that whole bit, so sometimes that’s a little bit weird.
LD: Not to make it about me, but they go for the kill. They will save you sometimes, so I think we are about equal.
GS: Okay, good.
Capone: Are you having complete strangers come up and hug you, because they think they know you? Is that part of it?
GS: Yes. That is scary. I like it, but it’s scary.
LD: I’ve noticed with Gabby, it’s new to her, you can see it’s new to her, because she tries to pretend that she’s not freaked out, but she smiles, you know, but I know her and can see behind the eyes. She goes “Thank you…” “Thank you…” [Laughs] But she keeps a smile on. It does freak you out with people that don’t know you, like they could have a gun or something, Gab.
GS: Big crowds do freak me out a little. But I live among the people and then the whole thing with my mom that I told you… It’s scary, but it’s all very exciting.
Capone: Lee, the films you have produced, like MONSTERS BALL and THE WOODSMAN, these are films about people that we never see on a big screen and I think this might qualify as well with PRECIOUS. I have got to imagine that those are the hardest kind of films to make. Do you work better under those kinds of conditions when you feel you’ve got all of that adversity toward getting something made?
LD: I’m always for the underdog. I’ve always been an underdog in Hollywood… All of my movies came from Harlem. I’m black. I’m openly gay. I’ve got all of these strikes against me and I continue to do, so people have said things and thought things like “What is his magic potion?” I am the existence of that underdog, though it’s nice, because I’ve got a couple of jobs from the boys. That’s really nice, so I guess I can’t be the underdog for long, but I’ll probably hire underdogs. I don’t know, I just go and do my thing. I have to tell what I know to be stuff that I saw when I was growing up or stuff that I see on the street and stuff that I know is going to affect people in a different way, as opposed to the stuff you see on a plane. When you see movies like on a plane, like you will never see our movies on a plane.
[Everyone Laughs]
Capone: Probably not.
LD: And it’s really depressing. I was thinking about that coming in from Toronto.
GS: Awe, don't you want to be on a plane?
LD: Yes, I want to be on a plane Gabby. I want my mother to see me on a plane. We live for our parents. I would like to see “Lee Daniels, directed by…” never unless she’s riding private on Larry Flynt's chartered plane. [laughs]
Capone: Having Tyler Perry and Oprah Winfrey’s names on this, what does that do for your movie? What does that do for getting a movie like this made?
LD: For me, because very rarely are the masses just running out to see films… I won an Academy Award for my first film. I won Cannes with my second film, that and a donut won’t get me a cup of coffee anywhere.
[Everyone Laughs]
LD: I thought this was a really important film. I knew from the beginning that I wanted everybody to see this movie, but it’s tricky. The subject matter is tricky. Our lead is tricky. It’s a very tricky thing. It’s really like an angel, and that’s why I feel that this movie has been blessed, like who would think that I would finance this movie? Who would think I would do this movie? Who would think I could get money for the movie? Who would think I would find her? Who would think, really, as I’m winning and not even lucky enough to be in Sundance, I’m lucky enough to get there, but to fucking win at Sundance and walk it down the fucking red carpet and there’s a call that’s coming in from Oprah Winfrey, like I don’t know, does it get any better? I don’t think so. I think that’s the end and I’m set, I'm coasting.
Capone: A couple of things that came up last night that I wanted to touch on, because I thought they were really interesting that I hadn’t thought of were the questions that came up to you about the emotional toll that the film has taken on you, Gabby, and your response is “No, it didn’t really bother me.” That’s really kind of remarkable and do you ever worry that maybe it should have made more of an affect on you?
GS: That’s a really interesting question. Sometimes I feel really guilty saying that “No, I just turn it off and on,” I think what that is is that I really know who I am. I have a very strong sense of self and I know who she is too, because I know who I am and so that’s why I’m able to slip in and out, because I’m not her. I don’t live her life, I don't. But it’s really, really funny, even Lee asked me “What happened to you? What did you have to tap into?” And I don’t know. I don’t know if I tapped into anything other than my own guilt and my empathy for someone like her.
Capone: It’s the classic story. What was the story about Dustin Hoffman and Lawrence Olivier making MARATHON MAN, and Dustin Hoffman is all method and Lawrence Olivier was asked, “How do you prepare?” He’s like “It’s called acting." The other thing that came up last night that I found really interesting…
LD: I’m so happy you saw it with and audience last night. We were trying to gauge the audience. How do you gauge in comparison?
GS: To what?
LD: To the bigger picture. We weren’t in the room with the people, that was the other thing too. We left then came back, but I gauged them that I think that they were into it, Gab.
GS: I think so, too.
LD: I think they embraced it. We are so hard on ourselves even now…
Capone: I can tell you, people were into it. The reactions, the laughter, the gasping at certain points…
GS: That’s always my favorite.
LD: She's really twisted.
Capone: You know what’s funny is you kind of faked us out, because once she leaves her house, we think--I have not read the book--but we think the worst is over, and then we get that monologue from Mo'nique. For a lot of people that was almost too much, but in the right way. And I was sitting there thinking, “Okay, that’s literally the worst thing I have ever heard of someone doing to another person.”
LD: People were asking what the most difficult scenes are in it and I say the Italian scene, be Gabby brought up yesterday that it really wasn’t the Italian scene, but it was that scene, because it was really… It wasn’t hard on me as a director, because I knew I had the gems in the room. That was just like “Where am I going now?” “What camera?” I can understand how it was hard on you guys, because the words were so…. And what we didn’t see from Mariah was edited out. What we didn’t see with Gabby was edited out. Each of them had these soliloquies that were tour de forcible and in the editing room it was like “Who am I going to choose?” I’m sorry. Did I answer your question?
Capone: You were talking about last night and I was just sort of giving you an example how I thought people were reacting. You did bring up something with the Italian sequence, because I thought those fantasy sequences were fantastic and tragic and wonderful. Tell me about shooting those scenes, because they are so disconnected from everything else and it’s interesting. Just two or three days ago, I saw WHERE THE WILD THINGS ARE, which is also about a kid that vanishes into a fantasy world…
LD: How is it?
Capone: It’s wonderful and what they built the story around is it’s about a kid who is in a broken home and escapes to this world populated by creatures who represent different parts of his immature psyche.
LD: Who directed it again?
GS: Spike Jonze.
Capone: But the fantasy sequences in this movie actually reminded me of that, how at her worst moments, she vanishes into these moments. Tell me about shooting those.
LD: Spike Jonze… I need to write that down, because everybody has been talking to me about that. I’m excited. We just lived in our bubble with our fucking movie, and all we want to do was want to see so many new movies, because there are all of these festivals. It was a risk, because in the book it was pretty linear and in the book, she really goes into graphic details about the sexual exploits going on. My feeling was if I had done it, it’d be X rated, but more importantly, we needed to breath. We needed to get out of the situation through lightness. I thought it was really rolling the dice. On the page, you go “Oh shit, I’m lost here.” Each one had to be more of a marvel or more of a something or more of a just something utter surreal, and the one that I like the best, the one that knocks me off the best is when Precious realizes she doesn’t need her fantasies anymore and Mary actually walks into the fantasy with the boy on the bike .And it sort of goes into this black and white and she realizes that there is no fantasy, “I’m the fantasy. I’ve got to live it” and turns around. That, to me, is my favorite.
Capone: I wanted to ask about the HIV storyline. When I saw that it was set in 1987, which I’m sure the book is too, my first thought is always “Why is it set in that year?” for any movie that is not set in the present, I always wonder “Why is it that year?” and then when that element came late into the story, I thought, that's why it being in '87 is so important, because that’s the fear about HIV was so present.
LD: You know it! You've got it!
Capone: It was still a new thing and it was scary as hell. Nobody, besides scientists, knew the truth about how you would get it or how it transferred. You talked last night about how people not talking about it made the situation worse, especially among gay black men.
LD: That’s correct. I think that that’s a very tragic thing and I think it comes from a socioeconomic background. Men who are on the down low are infected… this is really what happens to Precious, because the guy in her head had a couple of boyfriends and a couple girlfriends and was doing drugs and he was all over the place. He was her part-time daddy, but he was everybody else’s daddy, and that’s not really explored in the book and also on screen. If I had known that… no I wouldn’t have, but I think that that was the seed that sort of started this shit, and her HIVness was this sort of denial of sexuality amongst African Americans and really not being able to--forget about church, work, or dealing with the brothers, your family, and everything--the hardest thing to do, harder than walking as a black man, is walking as a gay black man. It is like two stones thrown right in your face, but I think that you hold yourself up and you just have to give the best example I think to people, because I want my kids to be proud of me. They are straight. My little boy says, “Is it okay that I’m straight?” “Is it okay to like girls?” It was so cute; I was like “Yes, it’s okay. Whatever.”
Capone: All right, thank you both so much.
LD: I’m a real fan of the website, it's the one with bulky letters! I do know it.
Capone: Exactly. Lot’s of all caps and exclamation points. All right, thank you very much.
-- Capone
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