Cool News
Updated!! Death Watch For LENO And BETTY, Both At Series Lows!! SMALLVILLE Flat!! Friday HOUSE Rerun Outdraws DOLLHOUSE!!
I am – Hercules!!
Friday finals 18-49 (previous weeks in parentheses):
2.0 (2.1) (2.0) (2.2) (1.7) (2.3) Ghost Whisperer
1.9 (2.1) (1.9) (2.0) (1.9) (2.1) Medium
1.7 (1.8) (1.8) (1.6) (1.6) (1.8) Numbers
1.7 (1.6) (2.0) (1.5) (1.7) (2.3) 20/20
1.6 (1.7) (----) (1.5) (1.8) (1.5) Dateline
1.4 (1.5) (1.6) (1.5) (1.2) (1.2) Law & Order
1.3 (1.1) (----) (----) (----) (----) Supernanny
1.2 (1.4) (1.3) (1.4) (1.4) (1.6) The Jay Leno Show
1.2 (1.4) (----) (----) (----) (----) White Collar
1.1 (1.2) (1.4) (----) (----) (----) Ugly Betty
1.1 (----) (----) (----) (----) (----) House
1.1 (1.1) (1.1) (0.9) (0.9) (0.9) Smallville
1.0 (1.5) (1.0) (1.1) (----) (1.1) Monk
1.0 (----) (----) (----) (----) (----) Mavericks Vs. Lakers
0.8 (0.8) (0.9) (1.0) (0.9) (----) Stargate Universe
0.7 (0.4) (0.6) (----) (----) (0.9) College Football
0.6 (----) (----) (----) (----) (----) Bulls Vs. Celtics
0.5 (0.5) (0.6) (0.7) (----) (----) Sanctuary
0.4 (0.5) (0.6) (0.5) (0.5) (0.5) America’s Next Top Model (r)
0.1 (----) (----) (----) (----) (----) Crash
* “The Jay Leno Show” hit its all-time low at 1.2.
* “Supernanny” jumped in its second week, returning “Ugly Betty” to its status as the lowest-rated show on ABC.
* “Smallville” was flat in a week in which every other new episode aired on The CW jumped at least a tenth of a point:
2.0 (0.9) (1.8) (1.7) (1.6) (1.7) The Vampire Diaries
1.6 (1.4) (1.4) (1.5) (1.5) (1.3) America’s Next Top Model
1.4 (0.8) (1.2) (1.2) (1.2) (1.2) Supernatural
1.3 (1.0) (1.2) (1.1) (1.1) (1.1) One Tree Hill
1.2 (1.1) (1.2) (1.1) (1.2) (1.0) Gossip Girl
1.1 (1.1) (1.1) (0.9) (0.9) (0.9) Smallville
* A repeat of “House” beat the best first-run Friday scores of “Dollhouse,” “Brothers” and “‘Til Death.” “Dollhouse” is now expected to burn off episodes 2.5 through 2.10 over three Friday nights in December, then 2.11 though 2.13 in January. Enjoy it while it lasts.
* CBS won Friday handily, but "Medium" matched its season low with a Halloween episode repurposing footage from George Romero's original "Night of the Living Dead."
Find James Hibberd’s analysis here.
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does the current ratings list factor in DVR, or online watching? I am wondering the real effectiveness of these scores when dealing with corporate Hollywood
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and I'm not sure advertisers care how many viewers are watching if those viewers are fast-forwarding over their commercials
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Oct 31, 2009 2:39:26 PM CDT
So you're basically a fucking a show if you watch it on DVR?
by solanine
Nice.
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damn no edit function.
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be the next Villan? I say cast Fran Kranz from Dollhouse to take on the man of steel.
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Unless you're a Nielsen household, it's really irrelevant whether you watch the show on DVR or not.
If you are a Nielsen household, then yeah... if you want a show to get good ratings, you should watch it live. Stupid, but that's how it goes in an advertiser-driven television world. The networks were a lot faster to adapt to new technologies than the rating system has been. -
The Neilsen people and the network execs are still in denial about the new reality. And at least the network execs are getting there.
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I can DVR two shows at the same time. Commercials are a waste to me. This isnt new. If the advertisers choose to ignore that fact, they'll eventually get fired by the people who hire them. I leared that from watching Madmen....oh yeah suckas.
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from the spoilers available online. the second half of the season revolves around the hunt for the anti-life equation. they're introducing amanda waller too, as a long-term recurring character. gotta say, smallville is impressing me, especially last nights episode.
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That'd be a whole lotta empty space in NBC's schedule. Seems like their hands are tied for at least the rest of the year. Possibly until even next fall?
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It wasn't on this week, and no one cared.
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They could probably air reruns, and still get better ratings.
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USA Network will soon announce that 85% of North America actually watched the premiere during one of the 448 times they managed to air it in a single week.
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The ratings Hercules shows on this site (and I'm really grateful he does show them) are what's known as the "overnights." Which is to say the number of people who actually watch the show when it's first broadcast. Another set of Neilsen ratings are referred to as the "C3 ratings", meaning the number of people who watched the show when it first aired, plus the number of people who DVR'd the show and then watched that DVR recording within 3 days of the show's original airdate. In many cases, the C3 rating is significantly higher. For example, last season, over 40% of Dollhouse's ratings were C3 ratings. Just mentioning this for anyone who isn't sure how the ratings are counted.
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She's not particularly heavyset, but why bother hiring anybody but CCH Pounder as Amanda Waller? She had the same role in the animated Justice League. Now if they can just borrow her from Warehouse 13...
Last night's Smallville probably benefited from the promotion of "the kiss". The whole thing seemed kinda disjointed. Clark/Oliver/Lois having some weird love triangle? Online dating? Cat Grant as a Peace Corp volunteer instead of a gossip columnist? Oliver Queen as a semi-incompetent who can't deal with a pimp? Zod as a businessman? Only the Chloe/Stuart thing was kind of amusing. -
People like their MURDER SHOWS Jay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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So Jay takes The Tonight Show to 10pm and calls it Jay Leno and Conan takes The Late show to 11:30 and calls it The Tonight Show??? WTF???
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Move Leno back to the Tonight Show. Conan isn't doing that much better at the new time slot either. Move Jay back to "Tonight" and let Conan walk. I can see Conan going to Fox if they ever wanted to go the Late nite show route.
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Smallville has been awesome, season 8 was great and season 9 has been even better! Callum Blue is doing a great job as Zod, he really is like a young Stamp.
The 'business man' Zod actually makes sense. He has been on Earth long enough to understand that here business is war. My question is where is Ursa and Non? Maybe we'll see them at somepoint.
Season 9 has some more great DC heroes coming that will finally see live action; Hawkman, Atom, and a few others.
Season 10; if they can get Ryan Renolds to cameo as Hal, and even Bale as Wayne that would really cap it off well.
Next week looks even better; the courts of Krypton, rings and big faces just like the movies!!!!
It's great that they stick to the aesthetics of the Reeve movies, it really cannot be done any better than that.
Tom Welling is doing great, and the chick who plays Lois Lane blows that other one from 'Superman Returns' out of the water.
Either way Smallville is really hitting its stride, looking forward to a Season 10.
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But I'd watch Supernatural if I did. Does that count?
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taking all the best shows and killing them. In the UK almost all our shows are microbudget soaps set in a hospital or police station. Anything interesting we get is either face-burningly bad (ie Torchwood) or painfully budget-deprived (Being Human) and yet the American shows we do get that find an audience are axed because of your retarded ratings system or idiot broadcasters. Dollhouse, say hello to Pushing Daisies, Boomtown, Arrested Development, JourneyMan, Firefly, Deadwood, and all the others I can't remember in the category of "if only they took into consideration DVR numbers and DVD sales".
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to remain profitable?
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And not just because Clark and Lois are supposed to be together instead of Clark and Lana. It's just that Kristin Kreuk was so wooden and frosty that you never understood why Clark would have been attracted to her after she stopped being the girl next door.
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The problem isn't that Zod might think business is war, it's that the evil businessman thing is overdone on the show. Lex is an evil businessman, Lionel is an evil businessman, Tess is an evil business(wo)man, the members of Veritas were (sorta) evil businessmen. Oliver is a businessman. We've had nine seasons of evil business schemes, and undramatic off-screen machinations and buyouts. Zod is a military officer, so here's a thought: how about an evil military officer?
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The main problem with Lana was the unceasing idolization that Gough & Millar dumped on her. Even before G&M left the show, they weren't afraid to take the piss out of Lois occasionally. Lana is... well, perfect. Always has been, always will be.
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Oct 31, 2009 5:06:26 PM CDT
Zod's all about power, so the businessman thing is just a front
by spyguy
The businessman guise is just a means for him to get this RAO (as in the Kryptonian name for God, Rao) Tower built. Presumably, it's a device to make Zod and the non-powered Kryptonians juiced up with super-powery goodness. I'm still waiting for the explanation why the Kandorians have no powers, though.
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Other shows will. They've dumped so much money into Lenos show,and the P.R. would be so bad,that no matter how much he sucks its a gurantee that the suits are going to keep him on the air. However,if there are any OTHER shows on NBC that they think they can cancel and save a few bucks,you can bet that those shows are going to go bye-bye....
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The mechanics are the same, whether he's a "real" businessman or it's a front. Lots of off-screen business machinations, lots of boring buyouts. If he used the military or the government as a front, he'd have a lot less problems. Manipulate one senator into financing his plans (hey, where's Martha Kent these days...), and voila. Instead he's pitting himself against Tess, who is the one person who knows more or less who he is and what he can do. It keeps her involved from a storyline/plot perspective, but it's just boring after 8 years of the same business stuff.
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Children of Men was the best of the show, and I really enjoyed Series 1 and 2, even if they did make James Marsters gay.
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I wonder if advertisers are ignoring DVR numbers totally. I watch just about everything DVRed, and even though I watch a lot less commercials than I used to, I wouldn't say I never watch them. The mechanics of fast-forwarding mean that you generally end up watching at least a bit of the first and last commercial, especially if they're funny or interesting enough to get you to keep watching once they start. Sometimes a commercial will even catch my eye enough to get me to stop and rewind back (probably most true for movie previews). And you see at least a little of the commercials you fast-forward through--I'm sure it's not impossible to craft a commercial that conveys some kind of message at 10x speed.
Dollhouse is kind of unlucky for having younger, more technology-prone viewers, but this problem of a significant portion of viewers watching on DVR is going to affect every show as time passes. My wife watches "The Biggest Loser" every week, and when you're watching with DVR, it's kind of hard to disguise the fact that there's about 30 minutes of content stretched out to cover a 2-hour show. She fast-forwards through parts of the show just as much as she does the commercials.
Anyway, this DVR thing is just a concrete example of what's always been true: people do whatever they can to avoid commercials. Even before DVR, commercials were a time to go to the bathroom, get a beer, flip around to other channels--there just was no way of measuring this before. DVR just makes it measurable.
I'm sure the Don Drapers of this decade will figure out some way to compensate. Or they already have--as I posted in a talkback a few weeks ago, product placement is more integrated into programming than it's ever been. Going back to the aforementioned Biggest Loser (okay, I watch it with my wife too) there are sometimes entire segments where the characters just hang out in the kitchen and talk about how great Jenny-O turkey is. In fact, speaking of Mad Men, it's funny how a show with such impeccable artistic integrity has managed to create a format where every episode revolves around saying real modern product names over and over again.
And as far as Dollhouse goes, I wonder how DVD sales figure into the equation? I'm sure that shows with high percentages of DVR viewers also have stronger DVD sales and higher number of online viewers, whether these are people paying a buck or two to download them or watching them on free sites with advertising. With DVD, online viewing, and everything else, it seems like calculating how profitable a show is can't just be a matter of looking at ratings numbers anymore.
Still, Dollhouse's days are probably numbered, sad(?) to say. I mean, it's still not a great show, but it's definitely improved since the truly dreadful early episodes. -
I'm surprised that no one has come up with a way to create a series that is solely run on the net.It would seem that a guy like Whedon is a perfect candidate for such a program. He has a highly tech literate fan base. I'm just guessing that the problem is how to make money from web programming. Anyone have any thoughts on this.
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before they cancel law & order?
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Seriously, you think people have leno on their dvr que? It's a nightly comedy show, which draws heavily on the events of the previous 24 hours. It's stale by the second day. It's like DVRing the nightly news. what's the point?
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Once big problem with that is a matter of handling the traffic. Last weekend, U2's 2.5hr live concert on Youtube hit an all time internet high of 10mil streams. That beat the previous record of ~900k.
Sounds like a huge deal, right? Compare that to a show like NCSI. Though not in the key demo, that show hits something like... what... 40mil viewers. That's just in the USA alone. U2's concert easily blew out the old 900k viewer record with its 10mil, but that number's worldwide. Compared to the TV landscape, that's small potatoes.
Imagine streaming new episodes of 24 worldwide each week. I can't imagine that servers would be able to keep up without hiccups or crashes.
Also, ripping the stream (an easy task) would surely cut into DVD sales since you'd get 1:1 720p quality, unless DVD offers full 1080p HD.
The idea is great. I just think that we're a little ways off. The logistics still need to be worked out. -
I don't watch Leno, but many geeks act like it's the end of the friggin world. Please. The world can do with a few less cop/lawyer/doctor angstfest trophy bait generic crap shows set in NYC, L.A. of SF.
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Oct 31, 2009 6:43:32 PM CDT
So you're basically a fucking a show if you watch it on DVR?
by ryanbraun14
So you're basically a fucking a show if you watch it on DVR?Unless you have a nielson box nothing you do can help a show nor fuck a show. the channel you're tuned into doesn't mean a damn thing.
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Thanks for the response. So that's definitely one problem. I think I will start listing them.
1) Logistics.
2) How to monetize.
3) Ripping.
I think I'll list the positives too.
1) Autonomy. You would have way less layers of management.
2) Flexibility. You could just download a show whenever you felt like watching it.
Anyone else got some pro's or con's for web only programming. -
First, the love triangle didn't bother me at all. It didn't involve lana, it didn't involve lex, and we won't be watching this love triangle drama for the rest of the season... thank god for that, because the moronic old showrunners thought that us viewers wanted to spend six years of a 'will they won't they' shitfest of lana and clark even though we ALL KNOW that the lana and clark romance will NEVER work out... this time, the love triangle served a purpose: it forced clark to realize how strongly he felt about lois--so seeing lois with oliver served a prupose. we also learned that lois doesn't just have a fleeting crush on clark, and as close as she is to oliver, she can't get clark out of her head. and thats how it should be. I let out a big sigh of relief when the prospect of a meaningless multi-episode love triangle was killed before it got out of control.
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Whoever is behind the next superman movie needs to make note of what these new showrunners have done which has made Smallville better than it has ever been last year and this year. THEY ARE DOING THEIR COMIC BOOK HOMEWORK! If you've been watching last season and especially this season, and are a real comics fan, not just a guy who's seen superhero movies and thinks that makes him qualified to base his opinions upon the movies instead of the comics, where the best stories are found. They are bringing in great comics characters and doing it well. There are so many villians and fresh ways for villains to actually threaten superman in the comics... the same cannot be said about the movies.
You've got to be on crack to think Bale will EVER show up on smallville in ANY capacity. The studios won't let him do it and Bale wouldn't be caught dead on TV. But the idea of bringing in the JLA is something smallville could do and can do, and already have a little bit. -
My understanding is that DVD sales don't affect how broadcasting stations feel about a show, because broadcast shows are owned by the production company that created the show, not the broadcaster (ABC, CBS, etc.) All broadcasters care about are the ratings, because their revenue is solely advertiser-based. Some cable shows are different, though. For example, a show on HBO is owned by HBO, not the production company that created the show. So there sales on DVD are an important factor. In other words: If Dollhouse has huge DVD sales, the production company reaps that extra money - not FOX. If True Blood has huge DVD sales, HBO reaps that cash-- not the production company.
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And call it a day.
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I just got all 50 of the the 1998 (i think) run of Titans, and found a plot point that is perfect for what I've been saying about heroes since it started to plummet in quality. It all goes back to LOOK TO COMICS FOR MATERIAL! Kring is too pretensious to ever 'sink to' looking at comic books for material. So, I'm reading Titans and the villain of the arc is a goth rockstar (haven't finished the arc yet) and the titans were looking into him, which involved plotting out where the villain has toured and cross referencing the locations with disappearing kids. And what did they learned? That his concert locations form a pentagram star. Sound familiar? That's EXACTLY what supernatural did, and upon learning that they stole that plot point from comics, i didn't give a shit. I APPLAUD it. See, looking to comics for cool plot points doesn't mean you need to rip off major story arcs... just little things, and you can get away with it while infusing the show with a cool factor. Instead of Kring turning to comics and doing it right, he would rather BLATANTLY rip of the ENTIRE PLOT of 'The Fly,' which I will never forgive, because I've heard how he refuses to read ocmic books. A superhero show should kick ass... there is too much material out there in the comics to fuck up a superhero show... he clearly hates superheroes, and he's a pretensious prick for fucking up a show that had all the potential in the world to be GOLD. if you hate superheroes so damn much, step aside and let more qualified writers who love comics for all the right reasons take over. Kring is a douche.
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Herc said: " “Dollhouse” is now expected to burn off episodes 2.5 through 2.10 over three Friday nights in December, then episodes 2.11 through 2.13 in January. Enjoy it while it lasts."By that quote, it sounds to me that, of all the shows and their respective ratings, Dollhouse should be on UBER-death watch. Its a shame fox wouldn't trust whedon's vision and plan for the high concept firefly, yet learned from that mistake... unfortunatly whedon didn't deliver on a show that would prove he needs more episodes to make something special.
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In fairness, the show still doesn't do well with villains. Roulette as a semi-heroic con artist instead of a woman who runs superpowered fight clubs? Uh, no. (Particularly since the show uses fight clubs so often.) The Toyman as an explosives expert who barely even remembers to involve toys in his crimes. Doomsday as a season-long Jekyll/Hyde resulting in a five-punch fight. Zod as a businessman. Tess' Injustice League getting mostly killed off in their first appearance, and the Parasite becoming a teenage heart throb. Rick the pimp proves a bigger threat than Doomsday (almost killing Oliver and Lois). Metallo is the only one they've really done justice to so far this year, and Brainiac in the past
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(took an aderal and going talkback happy... you don't like it, deal with it and ignore me)As a lifelong Green Bay Packers fan, I was furious when the packers let Favre go to the Jets. I wanted him back, and was pissed they didn't take him back. Today, I cannot stand Favre and want him to suck and fuck up every snap he takes. Why? Because on the Packers blogs I go to, these fucking morons still can't get over the fact that the packers let favre go. they worship him like he's the second coming and in the process through all logic out the window--if the packers lose, its cause favre isn't on the team. if the packers win, they give credit to the defense or the other team losing the game themselves. Because these nut jobs are obsessed with favre, they DESTROY any chance of real packers talk on the blogs, so now I want favre to suck just to shut up each of those who each take an hour of their day to make sure Favre is getting a blowjob 24/7. Herc's blatant bias for dollhouse has the same effect on me... his desperate attempts to spin the ratings to show that there is still hope when anyone looking at the numbers knows nobody is watching...
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Dollhouse Foreclosed!
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What is Leno's total number including all age groups?
He may not be pulling "Gossip Girls" demo but, who is watching? -
Is what let's you watch those shows you love for free. I'm with you. I DVR everything but you need to realize eventually SOMEONE has to pay. Eventually there will be a subscription model, an ala carte model and a forced advertising model. By forced I mean similar to how it is on Hulu or the nets own web sites.
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Get off Herc's biased dick already. You're making me jealous.
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Oct 31, 2009 8:34:06 PM CDT
If Smallville keeps comin out with more episodes like last night
by saen
If Smallville keeps comin out with more episodes like last nights, it is definitely worth watching.
Lois/Clark/Green Arrow love triangle was great. The Action scenes where he catches the bullet right in front of Oliver's eye was awesome. Even the Oliver subplot was watchable. Best episode in a long time. -
I would assume we will begin seeing product placement becoming a huge factor for shows. Considering you could have a person drinking a Pepsi or Coca Cola. They could stop in a Burger King or any other fast food place, and they could order the new meal. Instead of commercials, shows will probably become one big commercial. Imagine 24, Jack is hungry, so he has to go to Subway for a sub before he can go after the bad guy.
DVR is a great tool for those who cannot be home to watch a show, or if two shows are on the same time. But, if you want to watch a show like Lost, why would you DVR it when it will be discussed the next day at work/school? I know I talk about the shows I watch with my co-workers the next day.
The main thing is that people are not watching less TV, but in different ways. The problem is they are not being counted because how do you count them? If you download an episode, it lacks commercials, which is how networks make money. Which is why I can see product placement becoming a bigger ad revenue in the coming years. -
Oct 31, 2009 10:01:06 PM CDT
Watched Smallville for the first time since S3 last night...
by flickchick85
I found myself stuck at home on a Friday night, no "Dollhouse," "White Collar" wasn't on yet, saw that "Smallville" was airing on a Friday (is that new?), and figured, why not. Surprisingly, it was actually kind of...dare I say, GOOD? I mean, I was in high school last time I watched it, and even THEN, as a teenage girl, the Clark/Lana BS annoyed the hell outta me. But whoever this gal is that plays Lois seems exponentially better and more fun to watch than the girl that played Lana could have ever hoped to be, and her chemistry with Tom Welling is perfect. Plus, they're in Metropolis, working for the Daily Planet? They even have a real villain (yay for Callum Blue as Zod! Loved him on Dead Like Me). Aside from the lame Matrix-y costume and the conspicuous absence of Lex Luthor and Clark Kent glasses, this finally seems like it's almost a real Superman show now. I have to say, I'm very tempted to start watching this show again after 6 years of not missing it in the slightest...
If there are any Smallville fans left out there, is there a particular season where it started to get good, or was last night just a fluke? -
Oct 31, 2009 10:08:30 PM CDT
I'm REALLY impressed with how Smallville is doing right now
by nasty in the pasty
People always bitch about Smallville "still being on" for the past three or four seasons, yet it's been consistently better than Heroes in it's EIGHTH and NINTH seasons than Heroes has been in it's second and third ones. And having Clark and Lois just kiss like that...no multi-season love triangle bullshit like with Lana...Clark just realizes how much he cares for Lois and, based on his previous experiences with Lana, just fucking GOES FOR IT. Bravo! I realize most comic geeks are probably gnashing their teeth about how this isn't "canon", but screw 'em. Smallville isn't the Donner Superman, it isn't the Justice League cartoon, it's it's OWN THING, and it's damn good. I don't give a shit at this point if Lois isn't supposed to know Clark before he moves to Metropolis, or that Clark doesn't wear glasses...the Smallville writers are just creating their own myth as they go along, paying enough heed to the "iconic" moments of Clark's upbringing but smartly updating them. I think it will freshen up the series to have Lois & Clark's relationship form the backbone of the remainder of this season (and the tenth, if it happens). Maybe have Lois find out his secret identity as the Red/Blue Blur BEFORE Clark even creates the Superman persona. How radical would that be?
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i heard about smallville before season 2 premiered... i thought i was always a superman guy, but back then had no clue what that meant (didn't start reading comic until two-three years ago). Smallville became that show where i accumulate episodes and watch whenever i got to them... i stopped caring LONG ago. Then, thank god, season 8 brought in new showrunners, and no lex and no lana. Lex was the best actor on the show, but without him, the show started to actually EVOLVE instead of going through the motions / hit or miss episodes for 7 years. FINALLY these new showrunners stepped in and realized that we're dealing with FUCKING SUPERMAN, and they have made more strides to get clark on a path to become superman than the old showrunners did in SEVEN FUCKING SEASONS. When you tell me you're making a show about the early years of superman, as a viewer, I expect them to show me a path that sets clark up to become superman over the long haul. But that just didn't happen. The old showrunners banked on the fact that it was superman so there will always be viewers on the basis of that alone. They strung us along and what made it worse was how stubborn they were. As viewers, we kept hoping for those big moments, and they knew that, and it seemed to me that they were using our hope and love of the character as the primary factors that will keep us tuned in. They made the biggest mistake a writer can make--you make promises to the viewer/reader and don't deliver.The fact that the old guys did such a terrible job running a superman show has benefited the new regime greatly--they have soooo much untapped material and, this is the big difference between before season 8 and also heroes, THEY TAPPED INTO THE POTENTIAL. The show is finally going somewhere, and i feel like its superman again. They made the show so much better in so many ways... i mean, even the LOOK of the show--the lighting, the color pallette for different locations, a lois who does things lois would do, a clark that loves lois, and a clark and a lois that play well off each other, green arrow has been developed and he has been a perfect, in every way, portrayal of0 Green Arrow/Oliver Queen... and i smiled when he let the hooker drive his car and said 'speedy.' I mean, fuck yeah, the working girl who becomes green arrows sidekick--no way the old showrunners let speedy be a prostitute like in the comics... but i doubt that they new guys will reveal she has aids, like the comics... that's a tricky plot point, and i'd understand if it was lelft out, but the only problem is the fact that speedy has aids is what makes her fearless. I could go on forever... its truly one of the greatest television series turnarounds i've ever seen, and i actually trust these new guys to make it better and better.
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Let me tell you. I've always liked SV, but it really started reinventing itself in season 8. Much more gravitas, much more comic book, much more like--Superman. Glad to see interesting, provocative, and intelligent commentary on SV on this talkback. Thanks everyone.
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It really IS a different show. And yeah, I even noticed how much more impressive the cinematography has gotten now. Forgot to mention I loved the Green Arrow/Speedy stuff last night too, even though I'm not a comics reader, I'm only vaguely familiar with him because he's my friend's favorite DC hero. But he seems to be a great addition to this universe. Thanks for the feedback guys - sounds like I need to Netflix Season 8 now.
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Smallville has been entertaining since it stopped being a teenage romance show and became a superhero show. for those griping about how it doesn't follow the superman canon, think about it as an Elseworlds interpretation. look at all you favourite superhero incarnations in other media. you'll see that none of them stick closely to the canon ... otherwise they'd be incredibly boring. i liked the way they handled Roulette mostly because it was unexpected. it would be totally obvious if they had Ollie find his redemption in a fight club run by Roulette. that said, i'm not liking the Zod as businessman angle at the moment.... i like the direction they're taking the series right now
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Apparently, all it took was to get rid of Kristin Kreuk and producers Miles Millar and Alfred Gough. The other departure of Michael Rosenbaum's Lex Luthor is debatable, but the actress playing Tess/Mercy serves Lex's character type well enough and she's certainly not hurting in the looks department.
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The total #'s are irrelevant outside of the 18-49 demographic. A common misconception is that Seniors (49 up) are watching something and bring in revenue for senior products (Drug Company Spots, etc). But this is incorrect. Seniors' buying habits are largely independent of all advertising--as they generally have buying habits based off of habit/tradition, fixed incomes and generally are not swayed by ad-drops. Hence the reason that most Wiener Pill commercials are focusing on the 40-50 year old range and feature 40-50 limp dicks acting in the commercials. That's why no one worries about total viewer #'s, just the ad swayed demographic.
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Was iconic.In it's 9th season, it still finds ways to get better. Smallville can teach heroes a lesson.'Heroes should be renamed 'powers', because nothing heroic is ever done on the show!
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Advertisers don't want Nielsen to count DVR recordings because they know people fast forward past their commercials.
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All who disagree suck by choice.
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If Leno averages a 1.5 rating NBC will make 300 million dollars a year from the show due to it being is so much cheaper than the scripted shows they'd be making in it's place. It seems he's doing the job they asked him to do so far. For Herc to proclaim that Leno is on the death watch because he got a 1.2 on a FRIDAY night shows exactly why this idiot should quit trying to understand the business side of TV and go back to suckling Joss Whedon's teet.
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They're out eating 4th meal in their cars at Taco Bell, amirite?? High-five bra!
Or maybe they're eatnig at Carls Jr/Hardees, scoping out some slutty babe they want to cheat on their girlfriends with! -
Nov 01, 2009 1:36:05 AM CDT
I've watched SMALLVILLE for the first time in years this year
by yackbacker
And I enjoy it. Whatever shit they created with Lex and Lana is all gone now. The chemistry with the new supporting characters is good. Welling is still a stiff board, but at least he gels with Lois & Co. This is a decent show finally!
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His show costs them next to nothing to produce (even with his big salary) and they don't give a damn about scripted dramas anymore. Even though everyone hates his new lame show, NBC will hold onto it until forever - also because they don't want to admit they're now just a bunch of cheap pikers.
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Just saying.
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...Dollhouse: because the American television viewing public consists of mouth-breathers who wouldn't know a decent television show if it walked up to them and bit them on their collective fat all-you-can-eat buffet loving ass...
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Looks like bringing back Sharona was all it took. And very little loss into the premiere of the new series White Collar, which was entertaining.
ABC hasn't done any marketing for Supernanny, my sister and niece are avid viewers and have no idea it's back on. Way to go alphabet net!
Man, are those numbers for Sanctuary right? Are there more more people dying from smoking at any given moment than there are viewers of this show? Adding that annoying, cheap cliche Indian chick was a MASSIVE error in judgment. But Siffy has nothing to fall back on, what with Stargate Bummer being the only other original series they're airing right now that doesn't involve morons running around in the dark yelling at their own shadows. -
...and good riddance! What an annoying show full of annoying, cliche'd characters. We won't miss you.
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as long as his guardian, Zucker remains. There are two sides of the coin--if the suits feel either 1)secure enough to take the backlash from a failed experiment, or 2)threatened enough to fear for their own job security due to the fiasco, things may change.As it stands now, Leno may still me making some money for the network. His show is cheap to produce but the ad slots are cheap as well. So much of his value is in reducing the cost (and risk) of programming an additional five hours per week. There's no guarantee that whatever replaces him would do any better, but chances are, they would be more likely to lose money, and in greater sums. At best, Leno saves them a bunch of cash; however little they make is gravy. Safe, but conservative, just like his show.
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Over the years they've canceled their most beloved, highest rated shows, the brightest being Farscape and The Invisible Man, virtually without explanation. As some cheap cliche-spewing psychiatrist would say: "Syfy" can't be taken seriously as a network until they learn to take themselves seriously. A new name won't change that. Just one of the many arms of NBC Universal that is slowly cutting off its own circulation.
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Last week's episode (this season's 4th) was the first decent episode of the season. Although still HEAVILY flawed (yet another "rape of the week" scenario, and yet another client murdered by an active), it at least had some suspense and intrigue. Boyd is actually the show's most interesting and believable character. I hope we see more of him in the last episodes as they wrap this series up. -J.
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Last season is when it FINALLY turned everything up a notch. Other than the 3 part "wrapping up Lana's storyline," and the TERRIBLE season finalé, it was the best season overall by far. These last 2 episodes of Smallville (Oliver plays "The Game," and The Clark/Lois/Ollie triangle and Ollie gets his "Speedy") were perhaps 2 of the best episodes of this entire series. Just stellar writing, directing, and performances all around. Clark catching the bullet in front of Olli'es eye was both an homage to "Superman Returns" and a very good visual on its own. With these 2 in a row, I'm hoping that they've now hit the stride they had through most of last season.
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Yes, yes it is. The only way they managed to improve it for 'Children of Earth' was to kill off most of the main cast, blow up Torchwood HQ and have their Supermarionation lead "actor" fuck off into outer space, no doubt to ham it up with his massive fucking jazz hands in the next series of 'Doctor Who'.
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Yes, his show costs nothing to make. Yes, it avoids taking the monetary risks associated with 5 hours of scripted shows. But what will kill Leno eventually will be the local affiliates revolting. Locals make a majority of thier money off of ad-buys for the late news. With local NBC's running a distant 4th, there will be a revolt. It will start (has started) with locals being able to run spots during Leno's show for compensation. This will cut down on the percieved profit margin of Leno. It will end with major affiliates on the East Coast threatening to and eventually running the late news before his show to avoid economic losses.
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I think you're right in general, but the Dollhouse DVD is released by 20th Century Fox--a different arm of the Fox conglomerate, I guess, but still the same company.
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How white-trash is that? Wrestling automatically makes this cable network a second class endeavor. Why not add Glen Beck and complete the move towards Idiocracy??
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Dreadful show.
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They could cancel him but they'd have to pay him a crapload of money. He had a two-year deal. I fully suspected Leno's show would be a ratings disaster for two very specific reasons: Number one -- instead of just competing against a very small number of other late night shows like he did on The Tonight Show, in this new time slot his success depends on getting people to abandon their regular viewing habits that they've cultivated for perhaps years. They would have to give up watching their favorite shows that only air once a week. That's a hard sell. Reason Number Two: Leno sucks.
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... by "sucks" I mean he just isn't that funny. He was okay as a stand-up comic because his material wasn't too demanding or cerebral and he could make a living doing the same jokes night after night in clubs. On TV he (in corroboration with his writers) has to be uniquely funny every night, and that's an ENTIRELY different ballgame. To be good at that, one needs to be a good host, a good interviewer, and a good broadcaster. Leno was/is none of those things. NBC didn't choose him over Letterman because they thought he was funnier or more talented. They chose him because he was a good "company man", did not insist on owning the show via his own production company (as Letterman does), and NBC was somewhat bullied and strong-armed by Leno's manager Helen Kushnick. It was purely a business decision, not one based on artistic merit or talent. Leno's new show will fail because instead of it being a choice of "Leno vs Letterman" for the viewers, it is a choice between Leno and CSI and Law & Order and Reality Shows and sports programming and various cable shows. Someone who didn't like Letterman would probably watch Leno by default simply to have something to watch at that hour. Now NBC is essentially asking Leno's fanbase to abandon ALL of their favorite primetime shows just to watch Leno's show. It won't work and it won't last.
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As one TV critic noted in an article about how NBC's ratings are in the toilet and they are using Leno's new show as a less-expensive option in that time slot: "The object isn't to succeed, but rather to fail less expensively."
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If they cancel it I will be mostly angry, last weeks episode whilst slightly odd contained more jokes per character than a lot of other shows even come close to trying.
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Things are just fine with Leno and all the other shows you regularly lambast as being "LOWEST NUMBERS EVER!!!", "WORST RATINGS EVER!!!". Don't be such a drama queen. Leno is making money and Fridays are regularly a death knell for series TV anyway. "Betty" barely made it back on the schedule this year as it was, and it is well known that the CW threw tons of money at Welling to return for "..one more year..". And in reply to AngrySnowMonkey, you couldn't be more wrong. Viewers outside the demographic buy new products all the time. Sure, we have our favorites we regularly buy but if something better comes along we will switch. Besides, over 50's have all the money. 18-49 year old's have mortgages, cars, and children to spend on. We don't. Advertisers have been sold a bill of goods but they don't realize it and it will continue to throw money away on that precious 18-49 age group that ignores them.
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http://tinyurl.com/yd3jb7e
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1) The concept of Dollhouse is just creepy. With all the nasty viruses out there, can you imagine letting strangers use your body as a sex toy? I can't and I can't imagine why any of the characters introduced on Dollhouse so far would either. 2) The science is absurd. I human brain is not like a digital computer that can be programmed. The human brain is too hardwired. 3) Too many stand-alone episodes at the beginning never allowed any momentum to build. 4) I hate to say it because I loved Eliza Dushku as Faith but she is too bland and boring to carry a series, or maybe that was just the writing but either way, her core character needed to be tougher and edgier than an animal loving do-gooder. I almost fell asleep just typing that. 5) The best show of the series was never aired!!!!
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Come fall of 2010, Leno will still be on NBC.... Back at 11:35 though. The network cannot keep him at 10PM and they will never admit he has been a disaster for the network. Yes, he is still profitable, but he is a major contributor in making everything else associated with NBC a total failure including destroying the ratings of some of the signiture ratings getters like the Law and Order franchise.
Personally, I think Conan is the odd man out here. The network knows even with a stronger lead in than Leno, Conan will not get the ratings Leno can get at 11:35. No way would Conan accept a demotion back to 12.35. So they will use Conan's poor ratings to make the excuse to bump Leno out of the 10PM spot.
NBC is in serious long term danger of being shut out of large markets like New York, Boston, and Los Angeles where their ever declining ratings will make it unattractive for those affiliates to get advertising revenue for their local spots to cover the licensing fees and get a profit. They are already scheming to figure a way to bump Leno at 10 for their own local news. If that fails, they may decide to dump NBC all together at some point if NBC sticks to its guns with Leno. -
... except (5)
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...just saying
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don't get it. His show personally may be making money, but he is doing sever damage to other shows. SVU is very expensive with two of the highest paid actors on TV who just signed two year deals. They went from first place last year, to fourth this year because they were bumped from 10PM to make room for Leno. Leno hurts the network because this show is now losing money. Same to a lesser extent with the original Law and Order.
NBC canceled Southland without airing a single episode because Leno made it impossible to find a slot for it. That show had a 13 episode order. That means that NBC paid for a show that won't even air.
Local affiliates 11PM news casts are down upwards to 30% across the country. Local affiliates make a large portion of their ad revenue off the 11PM news. Leno is costing them tons of money.
Conan's ratings have plunged since Leno took to the air. It is a domino effect that since fewer people are watching the local news on NBC affiliates, few of them are coming back at 11:35 to see Conan. And the dominoes keep falling with Jimmy Fallon losing to both Craig Ferguson and Jimmy Kimmel. Leno is costing the network late night ad dollars too.
It is very short sighted to say that NBC is happy with Leno because his show is making money. There is clear evidence that the move of Leno to 10PM has hurt the network as a whole quite a bit in other areas and timeslots. Unless, they decide to give Leno a three hour show every night, the move has been a disaster for the network. -
I liked Drive more than Dollhouse but then we know from the premise of Dollhouse that it was problematic.
Pity that Firefly didn't get as many episodes as Dollhouse will air. -
Did you not see Epitaph One or were you just not that impressed with it? It was the post-apocalyptic episode were some bad guys figured out how to remotely take over people's minds. I didn't love the concept but the story itself was fun and lent itself to many interesting developments. Thanks.
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I gotta wonder if a large part of the move of Leno is for the network to figure out a way to fire Conan without paying him. It has been well documented that in Conan's contract there is a clause that if he didn't get the 11:35 slot by this season, he got a $40 million buyout and he could void the rest of his contract and go to another network. There is no buyout though if they fire him after he gets the slot due to poor ratings. That is why I think Leno will be back at 11:35 next fall.
For a short term solution, this is the far more profitable way of handling the situation than just giving Conan the buyout to keep Jay at 11:35. It does weaken the network as a whole quite a bit, but as long as it is shot term, there shouldn't be a lot of long term damage. -
It's usually up by like 9 am. Whats the deal, Herc?
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Like, how many people had season recordings set up, let a few eps build up on the dvr and then did mini-marathons to catch up? Isn't there a tracking service for what's recorded and watched on dvrs? Because that's the only thing that makes sense, other than word of mouth, for all those CW shows having their highest ratings this week. People caught up on their recordings and then watched the new eps live.
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I guess that's a cross between Joss Whedon and Sheldon from the Big Bang. Now that would be the Uber-Nerd!
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...maybe three.
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smallville really has gotten better in the last two seasons. the loss of gough, millar, and kreuk was a breath of fresh air for the show.
loonatic, i'm in agreement smallville is like an elseworlds story.
and as far as the complaints about the doomsday lack of fight, for anyone who read the comic they know doomsday came out of the center of the earth to "kill" superman, well clark did basically put him there on the show. to me it was a cool way of tieing into the comic lore and setting up the future.
the kandorian story arch is interesting, i'm not totally sold on it yet though. -
But I still think that's a huge part of what's happening with shows suddenly gaining ground.
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in the way "What If" stories are good. it went outside the current structure to create a powerful story. i liked it for what it was. i prefer "Belonging" more because it worked within the existing structure and created an engaging emotional story that pointed out the creepiness of the Dollhouse concept. also, this is the first time i didn't find Topher irritating
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All I will say about Smallville S9: HAWKMAN IS COMING.
If they get this right, I will be very very very happy.
What other heroes are coming? Atom I hear, maybe a young Dick Grayson? Firestorm? Black Lightning? The B, C, and D level DC heroes will finally get a chance to see live action because of Smallville. I mean you will never see a 'Green Arrow' movie, but we don't need one. They are doing his character perfectly on Smallville.
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"Mad Men is the best show on TV!" "No it sux cause it got an award that should have gone to _________." (fill in the blank. Usually Supernatural, Sons of Anarchy or Breaking Bad.) "No, but what about The Wire? Best show of all time!" "Really dude, I'd totally do January Jones." "January Jones is the worst actress on TV!" "I don't get it. All they do is talk! What's so good about that?" OK, I think that about wraps it up. Next topic?
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Are the only surviving bastion of intelligent conversation left on AICN. Every other talkback devolves into such retardation, and yes, those points do usually come up, but overall, the Mad Men talkbacks are fucking wondrous. Intelligent people discussing an intelligent show.
Oh. And it's no one's fault that The Wire was the greatest show of all-time. -
http://tinyurl.com/m5fg4r
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I think January Jones is seriously underestimated. Betty Draper is like a deep river in the winter, frozen over on the surface but with powerful currents moving underneath. I think January Jones plays her very well, probably the most difficult character in Mad Men.
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Dear god. Genre fans really are the worst human beings on the planet: the single greatest pile of sexist, racist, homophobic, misogynistic mentally-eight-years-old morons. You know how genre fans say they're actually really smart and progressive? Don't believe it. I've gotten better gay-reception from trailer trash at the airport. Geezus, motherfuckers."
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What they will do is replace those other expensive shows with more shows like LENO. Yes, you heard it here first. Expect to see much more variety/reality/"unscripted" and my personal prediction for the future: "observational reality tv" - this will be basically and essentially putting a camera on a street corner and hoping something happens. Yeah. Really. It's the next step, and NBC will do it. Mark my words.
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SGU is still a winner.
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Ok, but have you seen this?http://tinyurl.com/nbz5t7
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So when NBC's ratings drop so low that local affiliates decide it is cheaper to run Seinfeld and Family Guy reruns than license NBC's programming, will NBC become the first Internet only major television network. How cheap with Jay Leno and crappy reality shows be if NBC isn't seen in New York, Los Angeles, Boston, or Chicago. NBC has a real problem brewing with their local affiliates.
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Dude, you just basically predicted the future. That's precisely where all of this is headed. THE FUTURE: NBC will be the first (of all of the non-pay cable networks ) to jump into the internet-direct network model. This will be followed almost immediately by the total dissolution of their ad revenue (as advertisers really HAVE figured out that nobody who goes on the 'net buys products from the 'net, but are still paying pennies here and there to get a banner ad here or there ). This will be followed by the now-crippled network merging with a YouTube or Hulu, followed by the "merger" company basically shutting down the netwrok and folding it into itself to use the material of that network, "An NBC Show!" This will be followed almost immediately by the eventual dissolution of THAT network, as it basically disappears, leaving ghost town buildings where their local affiliates used to be. This will be followed by ALL the major networks going this way. This will be followed by the end of free broadcast television except taxpayer-funded PBS which, given the absence of advertiser networks, will fold as well. This will be followed by the folding into eachother of many of the cable networks, like, I'm thinking one-fifth or one-seventh of the choices we have now. Branding (like, say, CARTOON NETWORK which is even moving to reality shows to replace animated shows) will become nonexistent. There will be no theme networks, just block channels showing material culled from each other with little or no new material. So, eventually, you'll get a BBC style model where people have to pay to get any TV at all and what they'll get are microbudget versions of procedural cop dramas and hospital shows, on maybe six or seven surviving networks. See, America has gotten too stupid for even the media to handle it. The staggering inability of the American mind to follow even a 30-second commercial's narrative arc ("Wait, huh? The money - I could - be - sav- ... aw, man, I don't get it") has resulted in an unexpected side effect that people just don't watch tv any more. They'd rather laugh at their own spit bubbles and enjoy spectacle (SPOOOOORTS! SPOOOOORTS! NNNNG! SPOOOORTS!) which they will get from their local gladiator theater. I predict that the future of entertainment will be basically a mix of gladiator shows (wrestling, etc.) and live murders. I know the media hasn't quite figured out how to get past the no-killing policy with shows like FEAR FACTOR and the like, but they're desperate to break into that market, knowing the popularity will be huge. Live executions are NOT a science-fiction thing, they are coming soon in the major media IMO if the current trends are continuing. Human beings in the US are becoming increasingly slow, increasingly violent and destructive, increasingly disaffected and increasingly aggressive. They want to see BLOOD AND KILL AND EXPLODE. I'm still waiting for the first show to basically dump narration, links etc. and just be called EXPLOJINZ or BLOWED UP GOOD. Both are coming.
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thats how good it is man. the only person who doesnt need to see SGU is the person who is having sex with megan fox right now. that leaves 6 billion people who need to see SGU in all its glory. unless Megan fox is slutty, then its like 5.99999999999999999 billion or something. im not sure i was never good at math, but i loved square roots because it looked awesome, not so sure what it did though.
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...in the planning stage, that will more than likely (eventually)eat into USA's dominance, why not give Hogan the big FU and move Raw over to NBC, even just for a few weeks to see how it does? Something like that could avoid another "Monday Night War" with the possible boost a move like that would give WWE, as well as boost the current numbers Leno is bringing in. And if USA need something to make up for the loss of WWE programming, add a two hour block of classic WWE content on Wednesday night. Vince McMahon can save NBC.
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I bet they announce season 10 after the geoff johns episode, which is now a 2 parter cause Johns said they wanted to make sure they got the characters of Hawkman, Dr Fate and Stargirl done right.
Now that's cool. -
Nov 01, 2009 1:39:16 PM CST
Just a little statistic. SONS OF ANARCHY has 3 times the viewers
by yackbacker
MAD MEN. I never realized that until I looked at Herc's article the other day. 3 TIMES the # of viewers! That surprised me.
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He pay be profitable with a 1.5-2.0 rating at 10. But, that doesn't matter because its a shitty lead-in for local afflitliates' 11pm news station. The affilitates are none too happy atm with the Jay Leno experiment. Leno will move back to 11:30 and Conan will get canned.
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Nov 01, 2009 3:34:56 PM CST
Herc, please source your "death watch" statement for Leno and Be
by tall_boy66
Not conjecture, actual facts or even a statement from someone that these shows are on the verge of cancellation. Thank you for your time.
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NBC has already shit the bed, and they won't have the stomach to admit this kind of failure and completely reshuffle again. I would expect by Feb sweeps, we'll see some new shows or event mini-series that will preempt Leno at 9:00. this scaling back will continue and he'll step aside next Fall. So, 49-65 year olds, you still have your guy for a few more months. And also the entire advertising world knows you don't spend money. If you did, we'd be on season 25 of Murder She Wrote.
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Not only do I think Conan will be fired, but I firmly believe he will be the fall guy in the whole thing. By firing Conan, they can move Jay back to 11:35 without admitting his 10PM stint was a total failure. Conan's numbers are God awful and they can use that as an excuse to bump Leno out of 10PM. Leno can produce twice the ratings at 11:35 than Conan can.
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have been canceled long ago.
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has their backs against the wall. They have no real idea what the heck to do with Leno, new/old shows, or what to air. In the end all will suffer for their decisions.
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He's literally a human singularity of humor and talent. If any one person can actually bring down an entire network, it's him. But it's not just that he's killing NBC, oh no, on top of that, by promoting the candidacy of his bud Ahnoldt on his previous show, he's also had a hand in bringing down the state of California as well. Jay Leno: the Walking 2012 Apocalypse!
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The first of many Lex memory wipes. It was season two or three where he saw Clark het hit by the car. Nothing happened since. They did flirt with Lana dying which would have blasted the show full speed ahead, but then they reset that as well. The show finally started again last season. 5 seasons of waste. What a shame.
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I think you're 100 percent correct. Whatever goes down, Conan O'Brien is definitely going to be the fall guy for it. I'm also thinking, though, that we're gearing up for the first female host of the TONIGHT SHOW. Ellen, perhaps? They'd LOVE to get their own OPRAH. Not going to HAPPEN, but they'd love it. Basically, when it comes to NBC - and most major media - predictions like this are -easy-. Just think of the absolute shittiest, nastiest, meanest, lamest, least-intelligent decision - and predict that this is what will happen. It works a LOT of the time, more often than not in fact.
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People go out friday nights and don't just sit around watching television. People use DVR and Hulu look at those numbers ass holes. I hate how television ratings determine everything since they used some flawed bull shit system. Oh yeah some ass hole in the mid west watches a rerun of house instead of Dollhouse that doesn't mean everyone else does.
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There is just too much competition in the scripted television genre within that time-slot, the reason that even House didn't do well there. Dollhouse should be moved to another day...and another time.
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...expect a shit storm from his followers. ALL OF MY FRIENDS prefer Conan over Leno, ten fold!! IF they place Leno back at 11:35, how will the network spin that? Leno's time at the Tonight Show is done, and if he somehow gets re-instated as host, I'd consider that one of the biggest major network fuck ups of all time! OF ALL TIME!!
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..the system IS out dated. It pains me to think that all of network television is dictated by some hicks in the mid-west. Who have no taste in anything original by the way. There needs to be a system implemented into homes ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY, say tied into a households FIOS or Direct TV or whatever provider they use. Problem solved.
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Your "friends" (myspace and facebook "friends" don't count) number in the hundreds, at most. They do NOT equate to ANYTHING. What's more, dipshit, is that HULU and ITUNES and all of those DVR viewers represent a DROP IN THE BUCKET relative to Nielson viewers. THE INTERNET DOESN'T MATTER AND NEITHER DO YOU. -My gawd- ... you moron.
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It is essentially a rape fantasy show that doesn't have the courage of its convictions to admit it, and of course, every rapist playing into the fantasy, has to be punished in the end, because we can't admit what is exactly really going on here--rape as eroticism? Look, the show needs to be a procedural series, as I have been saying all along, and...being ignored about? Attack Smallville all you want, but it is...at least...coherent in its own premise, that being essentially a crime procedural, with the Wall of Weird and Clark and his friends investigating the weekly meteor freak (a rip on Buffy's weekly Big Bad). Well, enough with catering to women's rape fantasies via Dollhouse, because it's lost on the female audience, as the show is too covert with its true premise, that is...its hidden allegory, that being the rape fantasy which is so popular in genres like crime fiction, romance novels, and vampire books that are so popular with women. Dollhouse should have been rebooted into a procedural spy show, as I suggested. Instead, we are just getting client of the week, rape of the week, episodes with no real story arc to glue the episodes together??? Dollhouse reminds me of a Buffy episode, the one where the runaway street kids were being kidnapped at a homeless shelter for teens...and forced to work over 100 years, in a matter of days, in a hell realm. Well, that was a great episode, but it is a one trick pony concept that you wouldn't dare try to make into a tv show, however--that is exactly what Joss Whedon has done with Dollhouse--it is a high concept, in search of a story, and rape of the week episodes are just not going to get it, it would have worked better as a show about women in prison, for at least...you know what you are going to get--rape, rape, rape, and more rape, dressed as titillation, or tillilation dressed as rape? So much for Whedon being a feminist???!!!
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say what you want about it, but Leno will decide his future not the ratings or critics.....and despite all the complaining about NBC and Leno hurting/killing Dramas, Frankly it was/is BAD dramas,the sort that NBC-and others- aired the past few seasons that were/are just as detrimental to the future of primetime network tv....
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we all know NBC had to give him the Tonight show or else pay him $$, but does he get to keep it? What, if anything, is in his contract to stop NBC from saying OK the experiment failed we'll return Leno to Tonight and Conan Back to 1235....
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He's been exposed badly. I don't buy he can just walk back to 11:30 and get the same ratings.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/business/media/02ratings.html?_r=1
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According to Gateworld, SGU's episodes have been pulling 1.5-1.6 (for live + same day) since the three-part opener (Air 1 & 2 did 1.7, Air 3 did 1.8), and "live + 7 days" DVR adds at least another .3 to the total. Pretty good performance considering some of those episodes were up against baseball. Factoring in DVR same-week ratings, Air part 3 was the most watched episode of Stargate since 2005 (for "The Siege, part 1" towards the end of Atlantis's first season).
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Nov 02, 2009 2:55:22 AM CST
TheSecondQuest--- leave it to Herc to get the ratings wrong
by dioxholsterreturns
he despises the show so much that he doesnt want to admit that its doing beyond well. who knows maybe it will one day do better than that god-awful uninspired piece of crap named BSG.
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Nov 02, 2009 3:02:10 AM CST
SGU got a 2.1 average household rating and 2.85 million total v
by dioxholsterreturns
SyFy has had the best october ever thanks to SGU as it got a 2.1 average household rating and 2.85 million total viewers.
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Here's my original idea: If I was running NBC, I would give Conan a half hour primetime sitcom...airing once a week, one based upon his talk show, and or, his personal life, ala The Larry Sanders Show, Dick Vandyke, 30 Rock, and Seinfeld. The focus of the comedy would be to look at the behind the scenes aspect of his show, and examining his talker from that angle, which would now only exist...fictionally, as well, it would, perhaps, look at his personal life, as I said before. That is the perfect way to help Conan exit out of his late night talk show position, while allowing him to save face, whilst allowing NBC to keep him in their stable of talent, rather than risking him starting a talk show on a rival network. It will also serve to blunt any anger from Conan fans. NBC should position this move to Conan's fans, and the media, as a artistic choice that he made...not a demotion--this will keep the brand/his name, untarnished...and allow Leno to return to The Tonight Show. It would be a win, win for everyone!!!
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she told me last night.
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...a long ´soap opera¨esque pause at the end of each dialogue scene where one of the character silently looks like they are contemplating what was just said but rather looks like they are smelling something funny? that´s what killed the show for me before.
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Watched it seems like forever, got bored about the same time everyone else did. Sounding now like maybe I should go catch up on the last season.
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He would have a fraction of his audience that was with him when he left. He would be there steeped in failure. Good luck with that advertising campaign. Leno will be the odd man out (again). Also, major factor in Conan's ratings being down is Leno. Leno turns that network into a broadcasting Chermobyl every bight at 9:00.
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He´s got an ironclad contract for two years.
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1)because his "comedy" doesn't work at the 1130 time slot 2)Letterman has a better show and 3) he was NEVER funny-although he is better than Fallon-but then how hard is THAT?
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and neither is anybody. Problem with Conan is hes fake funny, hes not as genuine as Leno. Leno is the type of guy you want to have beer with. but Conan is a comedy-whore.
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Remember the last time we were all stupid enough to fall for that one? The squinty-eyed retard we put in charge of the country? And he fucked it all up in every way possible? I'm not trying to be political here, just saying this: I'd have a beer with the dude that mows my yard, he's a nice guy... but I wouldn't want him to give me financial advice OR have a late night talk show! Leno's time is done, let him go off and refurbish vintage cars or something, everyone will be a lot happier.
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sorry DioxholsterReturns, you might be right that the other ;aten not host lack comethin but if you rate them...Ferguson need to be on top followed by letterman, kimmmel with fallon and conan tied for last
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sorry DioxholsterReturns, you might be right that the other Late nite host lack something but if you rate them...Ferguson needs to be on top followed by letterman, kimmmel with fallon and conan tied for last...Damn I want Carson Back
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What's the difference between being fed roofies and raped while unconscious and having sex while your brain is wiped? It's an interesting and disturbing idea that might have been good for an episode or two, but you can't base a whole series around it. And I can't believe that the Rossum Corporation would develop this incredible procedure to instantly change or enhance or cure the human mind and then decide the best application for this technology is to run an enhanced call girl service? That's just stupid.
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idiots like media messiah, and anyone who believes him, has consistently missed the point of Dollhouse. And saying it should be a 'procedural' is so laughably stupid, it's not even funny. The entire point is about people, especially women, ultimately fighting back against the societal powers that constantly rape them in more ways than just sexually. If the last Sierra episode doesn't prove that, then you're just not getting it. Especially the fact that Topher and Adele finally had their morals tweaked and began to recognize their complicity in how Sierra was tortured, and thus the concept of the show. The point was to begin in a dark place and then see what can be salvaged, if anything, questioning the morals of Hollywood itself and how it prostitutes its talent. This show is brilliant and challenging, more so than any of Whedon's previous work.
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Um, I think maybe hosting a chat show requires a SLIGHTLY different skill set than being President of the United States. In fact, being the kind of person you'd like to sit down and relax with because he's a "nice guy" is kind of EXACTLY what you'd look for in a good talk show host. Come to think of it, a talk show with W as the host would be amazing! Just imagine the look of childlike wonder in his eyes when he watched the stupid pet tricks!
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I wish I agreed with you about Dollhouse, because I know what you're saying and I see hints of that in some of the best episodes. When the show wants to be an allegory for people selling themselves in various ways and all that, it works pretty well. But the problem is that, more often than not, what the show gives us isn't that, it's a "sexy/exciting/funny caper of the week" series.
That problem was worse at the beginning than now, and the show has definitely improved. But when the show premiered--which is when people formed their initial opinion of it and decided whether to watch it--the unifying theme seemed to be this: wouldn't you like to have one of these girls to carry out your fantasies on? What would you make her do? In fact, the commercials were pretty much explicit in telling you that's what kind of show it was.
I think some of the themes that you mention have been teased out as the show has progressed, and they're what makes it worth watching and thinking about. Maybe if Joss could go back and time and start making the show from scratch, he could put the focus in the right places from the beginning.
And I have to say I admire how he hasn't just banked on his former success by making a carbon copy of the same old show over and over again: he's trying something new. And maybe if Dollhouse had 7 seasons to work on it, it would evolve into something truly intelligent and uniform in its quality. But that's probably not going to happen.
(I wonder why Joss doesn't try a smaller network like Sci Fi instead of putting a show that is only ever going to have a niche audience on a big network like Fox that's always hungry for the biggest ratings?) -
About the skill set needed to host a talk show. Problem is, being funnyt and entertaining are the first two on the list, and Leno doesn't have 'em anymore. He's a pathetic holdover from the 80's followed by an ever diminishing, cadre of aging baby boomers. Maybe if someone starts an AARP Channel on basic cable, Leno could have a new home. As for Dubya, I could see him hosting a live action kiddie show in the vein of PeeWee Herman or Ernest that mutates into a cult show with a hipster following like the old Uncle Floyd Show. "Uncle W Does Dumb Stuff" or the like.
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Nov 02, 2009 10:09:35 AM CST
I see what you are saying about feminity in Dollhouse
by josstossesthesalad
but it's still wrapped around the male sexual power fantasy. In order to gain control they have to play the "game" using the patriarchal systems in place. In fact, they are stripped of their individuality and used as tools for the male power establishment. Perhaps if the show focused on escapees of the Dollhouse system it would be more in line with the idea of female empowerment. For a show basis, I would love to see how these react to being out of the dollhouse, or male oppression. Wow, starting to sound like my thesis hehe. Perhaps they could implement more Donna Haraways ideas of the cyborg. See I'm trying to be nicer to the show.
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an opinion doesn't turn your opinion into a fact, right? Not everything you think is fact. Alot of people like Leno and whether you like it or not, he's still the most liked and watched talk show host in the country. Also, although alot of people ended up not liking the job Bush did as President, not everyone hates him or thinks he's stupid like you seem to. How many stupid people can graduate from Yale? How many stupid people does Harvard give MBAs to? How many stupid people can fly a fighter jet? Can you do any of these things? No? Then doesn't that make you even dumber than someone who can/did?
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Don't care what anyone says, the show has been on for nearly ten years, deserves a shitload of credit for keeping Superman on TV, love the characters, think the production team do a fantastic job considering the meager budget.
As much as i would like a season 10, I only want it if the story is there, the show should end with Clark putting on glasses, flying and wearing his Superman outfit. Whether that is season 9 or 10, i dont want them to drag it out just because they can.
The quality of the first six episodes have been up there with the best ever done, it far outshadows any of the more popular shows like Lost and Heroes, I worry that this newfound Uber quality cannot keep up for the whole year. -
Nov 02, 2009 10:52:13 AM CST
As far as Leno being profitable, they say that he has to
by coughlins laws
pull a 1.5 rating to make $300 million a year for NBC. He has mostly been above this. So, I think your DeathWatch is premature, Herc. And I'm pretty sure more people still watch Leno that listen to that loser, hypocrite pornographer that is your Hero...
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there are male actives too? Cause it sounds like you did.
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the past two seasons with the exception of the S8 finale. It is a shame they can't use Batman or Wonder Woman, but overall I am enjoying the guest heroes and how it is becoming more of "super hero" show. I would say it does need to end soon unless they are going to make it a full fledged Superman show.
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I really hope they bring back Zatanna, "MEOW"!
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ABC was going to hire Leno and give him Kimmel's show. NBC has destroyed its domination on Tuesdays at 10pm, its #2 ranking behind "Am. Idol" on Wednesdays, and its 28 years run of dominance on Thursdays at 10pm (where all the ads for new release movies are shown) to save Conan from being in 3rd place. Guess what NBC, Conan is in 3rd, and he was going to be in 3rd no matter what.-----later----m
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-NBC will honor Leno's 2 year deal, no matter how bad his ratings get.
-When 2 years is up, the economy will have recovered enough for NBC to afford 5 scripted 10pm shows again. Leno will leave NBC & will sign a deal for $10 million a year as headliner at The Luxor in Vegas. An entire theater will be devoted to him, along with a showcase for his vintage cars in the lobby.
-Conan will remain host of The Tonight Show through 2027. He will have a surprising uptick in his ratings in 2013 (finally besting Letterman) when Robert Pattinson is arrested and appears on Conan's show to apologize for cheating on Kristen Stewart with a male prostitute he picked up on Hollywood Blvd.
-Andy Richter will retire (again) in 2014 as Conan's side kick, after he realizes (again) that he is 4 times funnier than his long time friend and host. He will jump from TV project to TV project for a few years with no success. Andy settles for his own desk and a syndicated daytime talk show when Ellen retires in 2016.
-The Neilsen Ratings system will be exposed as a complete and utter fraud in 2012. In a press release, Neilsen will acknowlege, "We absolutely have NO idea what the fuck people are watching...and we really haven't since the late '70s. You know how many frickin TV sets there are in this country? I mean..they're...like...EVERYWHERE! How are we suppose to keep track of all those sets? Shit, I have never even MET a Neilsen family...and I work at NEILSEN! You ask 1000 people if they have ever KNOWN a Neisen family...and you'll get goose eggs! It's ridiculous, quite frankly, and we're more than embarrassed and ashamed to admit we've been misleading networks & advertisers for decades. Our control sample is ridiculously small...don't even get me started you assholes who DVR shows! Or watch shit on Hulu! We can't be everywhere y'know! Oh, dear Christ. We're done...DONE keeping up this charade. We've basically been pulling these numbers out of our ass for so long, you'd have a better idea of who's watching what shows if you stood next to a group of people talking about TV around the watercooler at the office. So...we're done. Get ready to start paying for EVERYTHING you watch on TV...cuz advertisers are going to be putting ALL their ad revenue into the internet and direct mail. Sorry for the charade! BTW...I need a job!"
-Jimmy Fallon will still not be watchable...NBC will pull the plug in 2013...Jimmy will make Taxi II with Queen Latifah, which will go straight to DVD. Fallon will become a script supervisor/co-producer at SNL...until THAT show is cancelled in 2017...and replaced with wrestling.
In the year 3000....In the year 3000! -
well, your complaints are mostly due to the network, not Whedon. Fox wanted the sexy, 'what if you had a doll' male fantasy. Whedon gave it to them, but....what makes it kinda genius is that he draws you in with that promise of male sexual fantasy, but then makes you really uncomfortable watching it, with a sense that something's not quite right here. And it isn't. Because if we tune in for the hot chicks, the show exposes our complicity in this corrupt system. It's using network television against itself. And that's why I think so many people were thrown by the show - 'it's too much of a downer," or "where's the witty banter and surrogate family" or "Echo doesn't have a personality we care about." I think people are uncomfortable with the subject, so they want to turn it into some Alias clone or make it a 'procedural.'
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It is just a television misfire, let it go quietly into the dark. If it had been made by anyone else it would get zero coverage from this Whedon loving site, I love the fact that the guy has really been shown for the mediocre hack he really is!
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That is the show that accomplishes the dynamiic that you assume that Dollhouse is accomplishing, and wants to be. What is bold about "Call Girl"...however, is that it does not apologize for itself, or its willful bawdiness. The lead call girl, and all of the call girls on the show, want to be there, and take responsibility for themselves and their actions, nobody forced them to be there, and anything can happen, but they take the risks, and the personal responsibility for those risks, because they are risk junkies. Most enjoy the sex, the power over clients, the danger, the sneaking around, the secret lives, and the money. Yes, they have regrets sometimes...but no apologiies. Dollhouse, on the other hand, treats women like little girls who have no voice and no right to consent, and yet, that concept was betrayed when Whedon showed us that they did consent to be Dolls, at least Echo did, and 98 percent of the other Dolls...I can't say for the rest, but there you have it? How can you feel actively sorry for someone who goes into a situation like that, as an adult mind you, eyes wide open?This show, Dollhouse, has simply become a rape show. Do pimps and madams sometimes feel bad for exploiting women, who wish to be exploited, just like the lyrics of the song "Sex Dwarf": "Sex Dwarf, isn't nice, luring disco dollies to a life of vice"...I am sure they do at times(?), those whom are not sociopaths or psychopaths--but don't be fooled about Topher, remember, Topher's own female boss said that Topher has no conscience, making him worse than anybody in the Dollhouse, he just looks at the Dolls as his toys to protect, not out of sympathy, but for his own personal devices, that is where his sympathies lay, and only there. In its life, post cancellation, Dollhouse will simply become known as "The Rape Show"...as there is no moral, or cerebral point to it, all we have seen so far, are episodes that play as gray area vignettes that are pressing no real agenda, other than to stay in the gray, there is no moral to the story, no social allegory to inform us about, other than to say that the world is messed-up. Well, we already know that, don't we?
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The show needs a voice, a narrative, and your idea about focusing on Dollhouse escapees would be a marked improvement...but we have not been allowed to get into the mind of a Dollhouse save for Whiskey and a few others, and just briefly, thus giving us no one to root for. There are no antagonists on the show, and no protagonists--breaking every known writing rule in Creative Writing, and Script Writing 101--the reason why the show has failed dramatically? If Whedon showed the TV sereies to any writing experts, including instructors, they'd give it a resounding F for ignoring that most important rule. You can get away with it, for a short story, or for perhaps a movie, but for a series? As you can see, no way?
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...have you seen raped by men??? Although Victor was used by Dollhouse's Madam, most people, including feminist groups, openly don't consider a man penetrating a women to be rape, even if the man is not the aggressor, and the female is--the instrument of his penis, impaling a woman, makes all the difference. "I don't recall you ever saying, poor Victor, that Madam women is raping him all the time?" Show us Victor being raped by a male client, and you may have an argument...or even the madam taking a strap-on to him as a metaphor for rape?
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How can anyone defend it?
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There has been no twist on the set-up which is Dollhouse. We have been shown a high tech prostitution operation, and prostitutes with no free will, or minds, and lots of rape--end of story, but where is the twist? We need a twist to open-up the show, beyond just the initial jumping on point, the initial set-up!!! We get the concept, but is there something more beyond it? Whedon says there is, but he has failed to show us that...beyond Epitaph One. His attempt at copying the "Lost" storytelling formate has not worked here, in terms of Whedon hiding the greater mystery of the story arc, if there is even one that exists? At least, in the case of Lost, it has given its audience antogonists and protagonists to drive the story-- Whedon, however, has given us non of that, leaving us to watch a show that feels vacant and void of soul, heart, and mind? Again, it is like a gem of an idea for an episode of a series, but not something you would base a series around--because the concept, as executed by Whedon, is limited, and limiting, but a series, to be successful, needs room for plotting, room for writers to think outside the box and not be confined by said concept--the very thing that makes genre shows so great, they can't be confined by reality's rules. A science fiction and fantasy series...or film franchise, is only limited by the mind of it creator. Alas, as both you and I have discovered, Whedon has his limits--yes, he is a limited, and lesser god. He is in a box that he can't seem to think outside of?
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Nov 02, 2009 4:22:53 PM CST
Drsambeckett1984: The Only Ones Who Are Defending It...
by media messiah
...are those who seem to have some connection to Whedon, of some sort--a connection or connections, that they have failed to disclose? Their arguments, aren't even kosher? They just assail people who don't agree with them...or ignore them, there is no real debate on points or issues about the show or the story--no give and take? And you'll notice, you don't seem to see any of these people post comments in any non Whedon related Talkbacks, suggesting an obvious agenda?
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The show needs a voice, a narrative, and your idea about focusing on Dollhouse escapees would be a marked improvement...but we have not been allowed to get into the mind of a Doll save for Whiskey and a few others, and just briefly, thus giving us no one to root for. There are no antagonists on the show, and no protagonists--breaking every known writing rule in Creative Writing, and Script Writing 101--the reason why the show has failed dramatically? If Whedon showed the TV series to any writing experts, including instructors, they'd give it a resounding F for ignoring that most important rule. You can get away with it for a short story, or for perhaps a movie, but for a series? As you can see, no way?
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Nov 02, 2009 4:35:38 PM CST
Amended For Clarification--Buffywrestling: How Many Male Actives
by media messiah
...have you seen raped by men??? Although Victor was used by the Dollhouse's Madam, most people, including feminist groups, openly don't consider a man penetrating a woman to be rape if the woman is the agressor; the instrument of the male's penis, impaling a woman, makes all the difference. "I don't recall you ever saying, "Poor Victor, that Madam woman is raping him all the time?" Show us Victor being raped by a male client, and you may have an argument...or even the madam taking a strap-on to him as a metaphor for rape?
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you've had this mad-on for Dollhouse to be something other than what it is, while completely missing the point of the entire show, from day one. Just the arrogance that you know creative writing 101 and Joss doesn't is just laughable. You want 'boring formula tv 101' and nothing more. You want a clear good guy and bad guy with no accounting for any nuance or depth, you want easily digestible plots that make you feel superior because you can predict the ending, you write off all the disturbing subtleties of the show, by calling it a rape show. And no twist? You clearly haven't been watching the broadcast show, let alone Epitaph One. And once again, your messed up paranoia accuses anyone who doubts you as being somehow on the Mutant Enemy payroll. You continue to be pathetic. Those of you who question whether 'rape show' is an accurate depiction of Dollhouse, check out this fantastic blog that has been linked here before: http://tinyurl.com/cftf2k
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Nov 02, 2009 6:56:34 PM CST
to fans of Rapehouse who read subtext where none may exist ...
by loonatic
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...to take the collected episodes of Dollhouse to any writing expert, including a writing instructor/professor, and they will agree with me. As per the show, I am not saying that I don't want smart writing--you said that. I want smart writing, but place that in the dialogue, place that in the twists that you use, within stories, however, Whedon has outsmarted himself in terms of failing to tell a clear and coherent story. He has made the show so very intricate, that there is no clear story arc? All I am saying is, stop with the techno babble (something that the staff of ST: TNG had to learn...and openly admit), and get to the human story--tell us, and show us, via action and words what Echo is thinking, feeling, and experiencing, as well as the rest of the Dolls. So far, all we have seen of this, has been in the form of spotty back-story flashbacks, and what not? We need to know who these characters are at present, and how they react to their predicament...which is the Dollhouse--and how they are going to get out of it, or if they want to get out of it.All I have been saying is Joss Whedon needs to cut to the chase, get to the real story, and then he can do all the thoughtful creative backtracking within his writing, all that he wants.Look at Smallville--it is a rip-off of Buffy, within the Big Bad of the week format, and said investigations of the Big Bad each episode, but at least the story telling is linear, and it allows you to get to know the characters, their motivations, their loves and hates, and you can root for people, and against them..., yes they have given us antagonists and protagonists, and the pathos that motivates them, but with Dollhouse, you are just a fly on the wall, watching very well written anarchy...but it is still...anarchy. We are no further along in our understanding of the Dollhouse or its characters, largely, than we were within its first few episodes--and yes, I'd say that is a mistake! Very little has evolved, and very few characters have evolved to any real measure of significance. BTW, I see you are back to your name calling again, as always, forget any real debate or sticking to the facts of the show, a show that even Joss Whedon has admitted is lacking in content and execution writing wise--so where are your personal attacks for Whedon? Speaking of your personal attacks, and that of others on Whedon-centric Talkbacks, I ask you, have you seen many of the names that appear as posters on these Whedon related Talkbacks posting in other non-related Talkbacks on AICN.com, because I haven't, and I have been checking for months now??? That's not paranoia, if one is correct about making an observation, no, it is called...making a good observation.
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where did Joss Whedon "admit it's lacking in content and execution"?!! Because I actually pay attention, there's a pretty clear story arc to me in Dollhouse, and I've got a pretty good understanding of the constantly evolving characters and the concept, something you haven't been able to get your tiny mind around. How can you say the characters have not evolved? You don't really watch this show, do you? The fact that you somehow think Smallville is better because it has cookie cutter characters and simplistic predictable plots just proves my point. And did you ever think that these Buffy posters only post about Whedon stuff because they're fans and actually care about the shows, not some conspiracy of Mutant Enemy? Nope, because that would require some semblance of logic and rationality. Do you think Mutant Enemy cares what you think? Let me break it to you for the 10,000th time. They don't. They really don't. Done now.
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If I am lying on Mr Whedon, Herc will call me on it. I am paraphrasing Joss Whedon, but he has admitted in numerous interviews that the show has not been what it should be. This season was suppose to deliver an improvement. Joss was in agreement with his critics that the show was missing something--well, he hasn't delivered what is missing, and that is what I am complaining about. The characters haven't evolved, save for Topher crying every other episode, and Whiskey having her one cathartic moment amid the crying Topher--but other other than that, no, not really. Secret agent man's quest is now scattered everywhere and makes no logical sense anymore, Victor is still unaware, Sierra is still unaware, save as Dolls; those two have figured-out that they love each other, with the minds and maturity of 5 year olds, mind you? You call that character development? Oh, and the Madam cut her hair...and denies herself the pleasures of Victor...Echo is still in a dopey malaise as she tries to figure-out the Dollhouse and how to bring it down, again, with the mind of a 5 year old...and only mumbling this nonsense in a quick scene or two? That's like your 5 year old niece threatening to bring down the FBI because she doesn't like doing homework at school--it's silly?Finally, legit posters, even those who like Whedon, tend to post in various Talkbacks, unless they are plants, something that I have noted for years, as well as others, and when someone acts like a plant, and doesn't seem to give and take in a debate, makes constant personal attacks to the benefit of their pro stance, and doesn't seem to ever post anywhere else, save on specific Talkbacks that further their agenda, well, I'd say that person is most likely a plant.
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Media Messiah, as we know (and can see from archived previous talkbacks) has a constant ability to tune out and ignore anything that doesn't fit into his regular world view.
He has convinced himself that people who post here, are either Joss Whedon, his paid flunkies, or staff writers working for Mutant Enemy. He supports this delusion, by asserting without evidence that these talkbackers are only active on Dollhouse talkbacks, and not on other parts of the site. When confronted with evidence that this is bullshit (using google) and that in fact, some of these talkbackers have been in more non-Dollhouse related talkbacks than he himself, he does what every borderline schizophrenic does, and retreats further from reality.
Nothing, of course, can be funnier than the threat to get these people fired from their imaginary jobs. A psychotic move so "out there" that it could indeed only be described as a psy-op.
We now return you to his regularly scheduled ongoing breakdown. Cue all AMENDMENTS. Pre-load the triplets of question marks "???" Major fucking insanity approaching. All talkbackers, brace for impact! -
Females are already empowered in The United States anyway. Maybe a series about female empowerment would be relevant in Saudi Arabia, but here it's kind of passe. And Whedon has already done it to death with BtVS. What we need are good stories. Dollhouse isn't delivering that. I'm disappointed because I enjoyed Whedon's other work.
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It's about how technology will ultimately make identity a tradeable commodity. There's analogies to the modern studio system in there, but ultimately its an SF techno conspiracy series, as anyone who saw Epitaph One could tell you. Female empowerment, it is not.
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when you attach your wagon to the insane horse. When you punch a man-sized hole into a theory, the end result is a spaz attack that launchs into paranoia. And you guys were doing so well on your own. Lesson of the Day: A nutter butter's theory on the surface might seem logical but it's still only a theory from a nutter butter. Don't become a nutter butter by association.
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Very much agree, V'Shael. "Dollhouse" happens to have a young female lead because it was easier to sell that way and because wassername has a production deal with Fox. If the female lead becomes empowered, it's because they are dealing with the empowerment of the previously oppressed, male or female. The guy with the Eastern European name could have been the lead, with only a few twists in the stories. There would be less sexual material, obviously, but the core of the concept would remain. Reference "All My Sins Remembered" by Joe Haldeman for a take that would more closely fit a male protagonist, at least in the minds of TV executives.
Media Messiah - I'm serious here. Do you REALLY believe these things you type? You strike me as deluded, frankly, and I'm a genuine psych case on half a dozen medications. Do you take YOUR meds? You should, if you're supposed to be on meds. If you're not on meds, perhaps you should talk with your doctors, because you have a real complex. Best wishes, DennisMM -
...and when I spot strange happenings, were there should be none, especially among people who are of average to high intelligence, than I know, something is wrong with respect to their behavior, and whether they have an agenda therein. As for you and your medical situation, I wish you the best, and I am sorry that you are going through that, you have my sincere and deepest sympathies, but remember, we are debating a TV series (one who's creator BTW...admits is flawed), and only that--however, people calling names here, in regard to my critiques of said series, and the cruel nature of said attacks, well, that behavior is simply unacceptable, and it show's them, those who are assailing, to be disturbed, rather than the target of their many, and unrelenting outbursts. Let us not blame the victim.God bless you, and I hope that you make all of your dreams in life...come true.
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Sorry for the typo!
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you might want to know that Dollhouse is on hiatus in the UK now until January, so you won't be able to bittorrent the episodes before they air in December. I thought for a moment we might get Pushing Daisies scenario, but no, when FOX decides to pull it for a month, over here we see your month and raise you another month. Thats the way we do.
Anyway, loving the weekly Media Messiah therapy session, entertaining as always. I've been accused of working for Mutant Enenmy by him before, and I've got to say oisin5199 you nailed that explanation of the ongoing story arcs in Dollhouse. V'Shael sums up the theme perfectly; its about identity as a product. Media, the fact you cannot see that, and think some sub-Alias reboot would fare better, just confirms my suspicion that this show is just too smart for most people. Sure, in exectuion sometimes it falls short, but the ideas, premise and themes of identity it explores are way removed from ANYTHING else you'll see on network TV. And I absolutely love the fact that there is no 'moral centre' for the show. I don't need to see morals on TV. I already know what they are. I just want to be entertained, and Dollhouse for the most part (ie not backing singer or Mum episodes) does that in spades.
Its very much a shame that by the new year it'll be cancelled, I'm just hoping these last 9 episodes are as good as the last one. -
Are you now going back to your original claims? That ME staff are here abusing you? That your detractors are somehow only posting in Dollhouse talkbacks? Or that we have Fox related IP addresses?
Huh just when I think you might be making some progress... I am optimisms' bitch. -
luring disco dollies to a life of vice!
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luring disco dollies to a life of vice!
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we'll knock em cold! knocking em cold in black and gold!
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- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 151 total posts 140 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 128 total posts 94 posts
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 92 total posts 91 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 474 total posts 70 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 64 total posts 64 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 51 total posts 51 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 116 total posts 41 posts
- Wanna smell like the Hulk? What about Cap? Consider yourself a Thunder God or a unisex God of Mischief? -- 71 total posts 40 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 35 total posts 35 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 35 total posts 34 posts