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See Tomb Raiders And Vampire Babes In Two More Clips From TALES OF AN ANCIENT EMPIRE!! + The Filmmakers Are Listening...
Merrick here...
Earlier this week we posted two rough cut clips from TALES FROM AN ANCIENT EMPIRE, director Albert Pyun's pseudo-sequel to 1982's THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER (see them HERE).
In that posting, we asked Talkbackers to offer their constructive feedback about all facets of these clips. Despite an anticipated level of snark and vitriol in the resulting Talkback, the filmmakers were able to glean some very helpful perspectives from some of our readers - whose insights, expectations, and criticisms held considerable merit. Accordingly, changes are now being made to the material we presented with the hope of making TALES OF AN ANCIENT EMPIRE a film which SWORD AND THE SORCERER fans, as well as AICN readers, will truly enjoy.
Here's another opportunity to be a part of this post production process. Below you'll find two more clips - they are also rough cut samplings, and not entirely refined (currently lacking balance and color correction, for example). In the Talkbacks below, offer your feedback...in as much detail as you like..about what you're seeing. What works, what doesn't work, and try to explain why.
By no stretch of the imagination do I expect this will be a SFT (Snark-Free Talkback), but do consider that you have a rare opportunity here to be heard by filmmakers whose minds, thus far, have been remarkably (and agreeably) open to your constructive response - they're even making changes based on what you're saying, whenever possible.
Without further delay, here are the two new clips. Enjoy!
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Dick In Ass.
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At least we get some hot vampire-on-vampire action this time. As long as the nekkid bewbies show up 'ventually.
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...though right? Just between you and me?Reading talkback advice, no matter how constructive, would be brutal man...I'm not sure I would ever recover.
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...the people making this movie throw us out clips like these. Seriously, we are supposed to give an opinion on this movie? I couldn't tell ya what is going on. Furthermore, I loved The Sword and the Sorcerer movie of the early 80's. It was fun. I honestly couldn't tell you if this will even mesh with the first one . I know theres lots of Talkbackers who are just ready to treat this flick apart. I'm about one step away from going that route, but yet I hesitate. Maybe because I hope the original will mesh with the new one and visa versa? I'm not expecting much, because honestly, they haven't shown us much, and what they have shown has not been anything to write home about.
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..have Kathleen Beller?..she was a hottie..
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Lee Horsleys veiny cock
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*tear, not treat. sorry.
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it looks pretty good. the color palette is really a little TOO dull, even for a cave scene, but I'm assuming that gets tended to later.
all in all, it's a little tough not to see the inevitable comparisons: the boat flyover and the cave set (even the cave ENTRANCE are a really strong echo of Pirates of the Caribbean, the vampiress looks a LOT like Van Helsing's vampiresses (that can't be a word), and the black eyes, baring teeth look is straight out of 30 Days of Night. again, doesn't look bad, but just a little bit "ScyFy original programming" for me.
I look forward to seeing more once there's some more context however. -
I liked the way the first clip set the island up, the sweeping shot past the ship and then telling us the islands name. The second clip was kinda slow and I didn't feel any tension. Not that I want a million jump cuts in there to make me sick, but something to make it "punchier" (does that make any sense?)Please do not put in any jiggle-y p.o.v. camera movements.
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I'm guessing the sound fx are temp.. but they aren't even synced.. lol, or even vaguely similar to what's appropriate for the moment.
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to open the sequence.
The second clip, with the vampires feels slow- and not terribly frightening. To be honest, I would try and use some more terrifying sound design to drum up the danger, make the vampires growl or something (hissing alone doesn't do it). There's also not enough weight to the movement by the girl in the tunnel. We need to hear her movements better.
The first cut of the girl at the gate also seems a little out of place. Is she reacting to the gate or to the noises of a conflict behind her? Her awareness seems unclear.
And, as a blanket comment, the music doesn't fit. I'm guessing it's a temp track, but the tone is not matching well with the visuals. Again, it's not reflecting the necessary amount of fear in the scene. -
I know "constructive criticism" is the goal here, but throw in some shots of the tri-blade next time and amp us up a bit... There WILL be a tri-blade sword in this one, right? RIGHT?
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In both shots the shots have a predominantly bluish (cool) tint to it. But more so on the second clip, the lighting would help emphasize on the action that is taking place. More yellows or reds and oranges would help cut thru the coolness that the shot resonates and better generate the danger that both characters are feeling. Besides that I really liked these 2 shots.
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...original somehow. GRINDHOUSE got the look and feel of older movies down pretty well. I don't mean this should have GRINDHOUSE type irony and tongue in cheek, but that kind of attention to the details of older genre flicks would have been great. And probably cheaper too.Good luck.
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The editing feels rushed. I don't have the time right now, but I would like go shot by shot to critique it. All I can say right now is that you might want someone else to look that cut over and find someone with a bit more finesse. Good editing can change the appearance of your film to look like it cost millions more to make than reality.
The music is just tacky. With the same budget, you could get an orchestra in another country (like India) to do a better sounding score. Again, would make your movie appear to be bigger than the budget. -
The first scene helicopter shot was beautiful, but I thought the zoom was to the ship, not the island. Maybe it will work better in context. For the second scene, the action was not convincing. We see the lady picked up and tossed in the air, but the next cut shows her softly standing at the wall. Same for the toss to the ground, she's just laying there. Maybe a little tighter cutting, thud sound, or CGI dust is needed to make it seem like she is *violently* being thrown around.
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I know you can't go back in time, but I loved the set designs and costumes of the original. Set in a fantasy, medieval setting I enjoyed one man's quest for revenge. These clips just look like people in a RPG game; "let's go see what's in that crypt!" and the girl doesn't seem very convinced that she's being chased my blood-thirsty vampires.
Please sell the 3-bladed sword. That's all I'm interested in. -
After watching all the clips I felt like I was watching a cheaply made TV show for the WB network, like 10 years ago. It does not feel real.
The filmmakers should take a look at classic like Conan to get a better idea of how to make a decent fantasy film where the actors seem to care and at least the look of the film has a certain type of grit to it. As it is right now none of this feels believable but just cheap as if the actors are just going through the motions because of shitty dialogue and the polish on them is so pristine that you get the sense they just got done having their 12noon massage.
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Fuck man, couldn't they get a bigger budget for this thing? Sigh.
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It would be nice to have a trailer cut that shows fans of the original that this is the same universe. they may want to save those moments for the film, but as a fan...I want to see talon...I want to see that 3 bladed sword. It's those things that tie the universe together and truly lets me know this is a follow up to a much loved cult classic. Show us fans what we want so we can really get buzzing about the project!!!!
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In the first clip - even a so-so looking exterior would look better than using still pics. The second clips needs to be tightened up.
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OK, I'm not sure of the context leading up to the first scene, but the music seemed way too busy. Kind of like a Commercial for the Bahamas gone wrong. It just didn't seem to fit. The music in scene two also seemed a little too much. Very SyFi channel overdone. Also, in the second scene, the girl is hiding behind a grate? Who does that?? And for the record, aa a redblooded male I totally wanted to see that vampire chick get it on with the victims. Can't the victim chicks like it...just a little?
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Color or lighting corrections or not this looks like the latest chapter in the Deathstalker movies from the 80s.
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It would be better if the vampire didn't throw her twice. Why would she do that and the victim should fight back at least a little. There shouldn't be so many cuts to the girl Tanis, it cuts the tension and she should move faster once the vampires notice her. Everyone moves too slowly; it's not life or death enough. Please, no more stop and hiss moments. I'm tired of vampires that pause for a close up of them showing their fangs and hissing.
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I really like the first clip. Lighting is good and it's the first clip so far that actually "feels" a little like the original.2nd clip, like others have said, editing needs to be tightened up a little and really punch up the sound fx when you do the final mix.Overall I like these two clips better than the first two.
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In the second clip, the women are in a cell, yet have beautiful makeup and hair, as if they just finished a two hour session. Some dust, smudges, and unkempt hair would make it more convincing.
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Probably looking for comments as to editing and such - if they really do want comments. They're probably just using this to drum up excitement.
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Is the most important part of atmosphere and mood, and both of those seem a bit lacking in the scenes. A little more rush, crunch, growl, or slimy-squirmy noises can make anything scary and serious--which is what those hot vampire babes need. If that slam into the wall, or that hurried crawling sounded louder and more intense it would add so much urgency!
Other than that, i agree the editing seems a little SyFy, a few longer shots and more intense close ups would add a lot of spice--a lot of what he have here is just upper torso/head shots over and over with MTV cuts. Mix it up a little, keep us on our toes.
sound track wise--yes, i hope it's Temp. I mean, i love Loreena McKennitt, too, but seriously... a bit cliche. If i may make a suggestion, listen to a Sweedish band called Opeth, listen to the way they mix synthesizer and guitar to make truly moody and moving music without needing to use 'traditional' orchestral instruments. They make me think gothic horror/epic fantasy whenever i listen. Just a suggestion.
oh, and yeah, if she liked the impending vampire bite a little bit, it would be pretty hot... and that little sense of duality was something Carpenter did all the time that made little scenes much more engaging... consider a pleasant moan and a double take on the victim woman's eyes, there. -
I got a FEVER! An the only CURE is MORE COWBELL!
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The more, the better. I wasn't interested in this movie before but I am now.
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but maybe that's a temp. sound effect?
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1.Just use "Isle of Sorrow", the "of the coast of Abelar" should be used only if absolutely necessary to set the geaography in relation to other places - otherwise Isle of Sorrow reads stronger on its own.
2.As stated above the vampire do not come across as scary - maybe they can be more explicit by saying they're going to make the human lady lying on the ground into a vampire, before that human lady tells the young woman to run (highlighting the human ladys sacrifice/heroism)as she knows whats in store.
3.Was there a scream in the background from the human lady after the young woman ran away? That would be a good touch to let us know that something horrible has happened to her.
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...it will unless there is a three-bladed sword, boobs and Lee Horsely sp? As far as the clips go, I think the vampire chicks need to be more menacing and faster moving.
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Albert Pyun, if you're still checking in on this tb...
Firstly my personal apologies. Back in the day of VHS tapes in big boxes I rented SWORD & THE SORCERER and made an illegal tape-to-tape copy (which became a treasured possession). However I did buy the movie on DVD (and will do so again if it comes out on Blu) so I hope you can forgive me.
Sorry to say the scenes in this new version look extremely 'flat' at this stage. What I think we all loved about the original was the passion. Every male actor looked like he'd just eaten a bloody steak and knocked back two tequilas, and every female actor been on a diet of aphrodisiacs. From the leads down to the lowliest extras everyone in the movie looked 100% 'up for it' and having a great time with the part they've been given. Don't know what sort of set you were running back then but it worked!
That's my advice (if you've additional shooting or dubbing left to do) - bring out the actors passion. Don't let anyone in front of the camera until they've got a fire in their belly and a glint in their eye.
ps. KNIGHTS was a fucking fantastic film too. Don't know if many tb'ers have seen it but it makes a brilliant futuristic companion movie to SWORD.
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I like what I'm seeing so far. I would have preferred you labeling the island before we were already in the caves. It makes it smoother and establishes the setting better. Why put up the label for an island when we are in a cave. Also, when the Vamp chick looks up and says "Get her." at that moment I would have dropped otu all the music so the focus would totally be her face and her words, the after she says it "boom" the music comes back in, it'll create more desperation in her trying to escape. Love the digital video look to it, very clean, very sharp, I never got the love for film when you can have a cleaner picture. You should also put up some sort of interactive feature on the movie's web site so we can keep talking even when this thread is gone.
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Spot on dude. My thoughts exactly.
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I rarely descend to such lows in describing filmmakers or cast, but this gobshite twat really, really deserves it. He takes great works by good directors and makes fucking awful psuedo sequels that piss all over the originals - and not just in a 'jeez, that unnofficial sequel sucked' way, more a 'jeez, that director must have fucking HATED the original and wants to bury it' way. His liberties against the mighty, wonderful and utterly brilliant Streets of Fire will never, never be forgiven. Tom Cody was a genuine hero of my cinematic youth. FUCK YOU for Road to Hell Albert, you moronic hack.
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The lighting makes a WORLD of difference in these clips, compared to the bright, clean first two clips. The helicopter shot works well in the Isle of Sorrow but the two disolves after that just seem to be... there. If I were doing this, I might have dialogue start over them and maybe even cut out the second shot (the one after the pictographs). That might tighten it up. The second clip seems fine too, although the "Zack Snyder Insta-Slowdown(c)" is starting to feel a little overused, demonstrated when the Vampiress zips over to the blonde after throwing her against the wall. Those are minor details, though. Overall, I think these are much stronger than the first two clips. Of course, they're not dialogue-heavy, either... DAMMIT. I thought I could keep this post snarkless.
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Is Road To Hell out? I've not seen it.
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What I remember most about the original and what makes it a "classic" for me were the special swords.
If the old triple sword is in the movie, I'd really like to see it in trailers -
Do what you can to shift focus to Sorbo. Some of the other actors are shaky, but Sorbo is solid enough. Hopefully the cameos by Kilmer, Lambert and Horsely can add some more charisma to the film.
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Luckily, hardly anyone's seen it. Unluckily, I did. Lysol, hydrochloric acid and wire wool won't scrub that shit off of my eyeballs. Streets of Fire is so incredibly awesome I was willing to give Pyun's effort a go. It's one of the only films I truly regret watching, and he deserves a kick in the balls for making it in the first place. WTF he was thinking when he set out to murder everything that made Streets so great, I don't know. How he got Pare to reprise his role in it, I couldn't guess in a million years - I mean I know Pare these days works in Uwe Boll movies, but still.....there's a limit, you know? Gotta have been blackmail of some kind. Do the film or these pictures of you, the oven ready chicken and the barbed-wire cock-ring are posted on the internet, that kind of thing. It's all that makes sense.
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I still gotta see it.
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You're gonna need all the help from above you can get. And don't say I didn't warn you.......
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To see actors of such stature portraying evil characters who die horribly would enhance the movie experience for me.
Probably too late for casting S&S2. But keep it in mind.
Also, I always like to see a beautiful princess possessed by demon, in the interest of plot development.
Maybe that's just me.
I have other predilections, but the mental health professional says I'm not supposed to think such dark thoughts. -
These clips should have been saved, because they're not going to help sell it, and as for the music, if David Whitaker is still alive, who did SATS, if he's not working on this, shut down production, because that's just as crucial, in my opinion. Having that lighthearted swashbuckling soundtrack added to the overall enjoyment of the first film. Perhaps Albert should go back and watch the first film, and really see why even today, to many, it's a cult classic.
What's being released so far could no doubt toss this movie on the miles-high pile of forgettable B, C and D -grade movies that go straight to DVD weekly.
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"OMG I can't wait to Twitter about this."
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the highlight always give it away.
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Ah, shit this movie has now gone off the deep end to utter failure!
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Nobody see them as scary and nobody see them as sexy! All that hissing with the fake teeth makes your movie looks laughable and stupid!
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Well, as well as it can considering the ingredients... Second clip, echoing others' comments already, could use a bit more clarification in the cuts, and "throws" that the vampire wench is doing to the woman could be clarified better as well. But honestly, after seeing four clips, I still have no idea what this movie is about -- the first two clips seem in a totally different world to these clips -- now I feel like this is a vampire movie...?! Right on, concentrate on who you've got: Sorbo, Kilmer, Lambert, your lead girl works, but the rest weaken the picture. And Mr. Pyun, while I have your ear: CAPTAIN AMERICA! I remember reading that your earlier cut was something like four hours (!) -- any chance that we would see this in my lifetime? :-)
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And they've already shot most of the thing - so making suggestions to reshoot on film or recast is pointless.
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"May God have mercy on your soul." No thanks, I'm an atheist. And I would prefer to make my own judgments on things. Not that your opinion is not valid, but it's not the one I go by.
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If I'm watching a spy movie or something with a contemporary setting, I'll take text on the screen telling me where the scene is taking place. But in a movie about ancient worlds, show me a map or something. Remind me we're in old days. The text across the screen telling me we're at the Isle of Sorrows makes it feel like a bad SyFy channel movie.
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Come on. Cut the still photo shit. If you didn't manage to get a good establishing shot, just cut to inside the cave after the boat. Hopefully those are just temp shots and we're not actually editing this thing in iMovie. Secondly, why are they yelling urgently right when they come into the cave and then they stand around once they get inside? It would work if it was right after another scene where they were frantically searching for something or what have you, but it's not because you have an establishing shot right before it. Doesn't make sense. Otherwise it's okay, reminds me of an opening teaser for Legend of the Seeker, which rules.
The second clip is decent except for the bad action cuts. Cut the throws to the beat and get rid of that horrible pause after she slams her against the wall. It's so obviously an error that I'm sure it's just a very very rough cut that you're planning to fix. By the end of the scene I was wanting to know what happened when it stopped, so it worked for me. I was interested.
One last time, I know the music is temp so you may already be doing this but USE THE SAME STYLE OF MUSIC AS THE ORIGINAL!!! I can't reiterate this enough. Get the guy who scored it, if he's still available, or get someone to score it similarly. It needs to be full of loud orchestra hits on all the action beats and bombastic fanfare and all that good stuff! The score was the best part of the original! Make it so, Albert, and I'll be there. -
The caught woman giving away the presence of the other girl in the tunnel is just dumb. My suggestion is cut out the audio of her dialog but leave her mouthing the words. Then maybe the girl in the tunnel can turn to run, then the vampire ladies here THAT and then chase after her. When the woman's caught I feel dread for her. When she gives away the position of the other, I now think she's an idiot. Not good.
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and lots of fan service. At least the movie should be famous (or infamous) for its t&a
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is a little to quick between girl on the ground to vampire broad to girl looking down at the two of them and it just goes cut cut cut. Let the vampire creep up on her just a little more. I don't know what kinda help we can give here though. it isn't like you can go back and make that one knight not look like a fuckin idiot when he moves into the shot near the coffin or whatever that is. Half the time I don't even know what I'm looking at.
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Thanks all. For your time and ideas. All the comments help especially where we can tweak edits, the sound suggestions and the beats like the location ID's. We'll do it and you'll see you all made a difference. Sorry we're ladling this out of context but there too many holes in the other scenes and somethings we need to keep under wraps until we get closer to release. I know is a weird way to do it but its better to get these comments now than before the film is finished and nothing more can really be done. Also, the Talkbackers are a far more movie savvy crowd than the mainstream so the comments come with some knowledge and wisdom and will only help Tales.
Albert Pyun -
I'm an atheist too, it was merely to illustrate the levels of suck and disregard for the original film that you're going to expose yourself to. Of course you're going to make up you're own mind. I have a feeling though you'll be thinking something along the lines of "Holy shit, what did I just watch....that Smegma guy, he`s a really hip, swinging, dead-on kind of cat.`` And yes, Omar, I really am. But thanks for bringing it up in the future, I may as well thank you now - it is inevitable.
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I always find the level of hyperbole in these talk backs a bit absurd. I can honestly say if I watch that movie you, or that silly name are gonna be pretty far from my mind ... mostly because it's silly.
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And again, normally I`m not one to absolutely rant hatred at a movie, but Road to Hell deserves it. As you will, I have no doubt, come to see. And what`s silly about my magnificent name, hmmm...it`s been in the family for generations, I`ll have you know.
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sorry, but I can't see through his Hercules acting. It's always the same thing. He's never done anything challenging to his career and he never goes anywhere as a character. Because he's in this I can't bring myself to watch it. It just makes me think "where did the filmmakers stop and say "this character just SCREAMS Kevin Sorbo! We MUST have him in this!". Honestly, anyone could play his character, and many have in different films, there had to have been many people who could fill this roll just as easily and do it better then he could.
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Is that really him? Can we get him the black highlight if it is for taking the time to respond and read our advice? Pretty cool.
BOMBASTIC SWASHBUCKLING SCORE! -
The warm hues of the first clips juxtaposed with the blue, cool night hues of the second clips at least creates various visual stimulation. I just hope some time is taken to choreograph and rehearse some great swashbuckling sequences instead of relying on quick cuts to create the fight scenes. I mostly disliked the fight scenes in the Hercules/Xena series. I don't want to see Matrix style martial arts and wirework in fantasy films of this type. I want to see characters swinging from masts and good fencing and footwork. I have the original Sword & the Sorcerer one sheet poster in my collection, so I'm a fan who wants this to be great. Also, if Mr Puyn is reading this, I'd like to see a new transfer of the original film released on DVD. As much as I love owning the original, the transfer is a little dark and murky, and I know it could be re-mastered!
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Video 1:
The opening shot is good, but the boat is too prominent and makes you think that it is the focal point, especially with the next shot being a close-up of stone skulls, I wasn't sure if they were on the boat or not until the wide shot of the temple doorways came up.
You could fix this with a few cgi boats to make it look busier or a shot of the raiders on the boat before they get to the temple.
Inside the temple, (which takes too long to get to, it's fine)
The sarcophagus? lid looks a bit bland, post-colourisation may help, but you could do with a shot of the sarc itself from another angle. possibly above, just to break the staginess of the scene. (Chuck it at second unit)
Video 2:
That really better be a temp track as it's repetative unatmospheric and in no way threatening. It sounds like a level on Unreal Tournament. Less is often more in horror scenes, a few cues, a bit of strings (I'm not advocating going full Hitchcock here but dirty Vamp whores in a prison/cave need to be a bit creepier)
It's also way too bright. I mean if it's going for the Bram Stoker's look with Monica Beluci et al, then sure, but that's been done to death and the setting makes it good for dropping the colour and contrast down and really playing out some horror there. Just an idea.
Also the older princess/queen/lady? I didn't actually register she was dead. Was she? it's unclear, some nice neck-break sounds will fix that obviously in post. As it stands, it's not sexy enough to be a kinky vamp scene and not creepy enough for horror.
Anyway that's my 10 pence of idiocy. For what it's worth the Production so far looks ok. -
so consider these thoughts to be absolutely divorced from any preconceptions about what this SHOULD be about, or what I EXPECT it to look/sound/smell like...
We have two clips completely devoid of any substantive conversations. As a result, they look like practice clips for the stuntmen to look at so they know what to do when the actual filming takes place. So it looks like we have a Zena Warrior Princess style movie with samauri ninjas and some leftover VAMP-ires from that Tales from the Crypt movie about undead hookers.
Because these clips aren't substantive, its hard to offer substantive critique: the asian guys completely convinced me that they were lifting a large slap of styrofoam - unless im supposed to believe its made of limestone or granite; in which case, that shot needed a director to stop it and restart it. its that clumsy.
And I echo the idea that hissing VAMP-ires (which are vampires with huge breasts, btw) are cliche. If you remove the excessively long tracking shot over the water in clip #1, and all the vampire "hissy snarl pauses" in clip #2, we have about 8 seconds of actual video to look at.
The pacing felt like a slo-motion replay of a movie trailer. Tighten up the scene chewing going on in both clips. Both scenes should be about 15 seconds shorter.
Other than that, my favorite color is blue so I liked these clips. Question: with the rest of the movie be in any other colors? -
It's really short so hard to be constructive but:
Clip 1:
Fade from the 'heads' to the door of the tomb (18 seconds in) looks amateurish. It would look better if we pulled out of the detail to show that it's above the door of the tomb before zooming back in to the interior.
Font in the subtitles is too blocky
We start with a long sweeping view of a ship off the coast of an island, and then go to a tomb with people raiding it. It seems too easy. The ship isn't even close to the shore.
Why no subtitles for the dialog?
Clip 2:
I liked this one better, but there are still some problems.
1. Girl #1 is clearly trapped behind bars, but when the queen-like girl (#2), who seems to know that (she's looking at her behind bars), goes down and is about to be bitten, she tells girl #1 to run away. it feels like fake drama.
2. Girl #2 is bashed against a wall, and choked before being thrown to the floor. She seems much too coherent and birght-eyed when she says 'go!'
3. Too much hissing. Why are the vampires hissing so much? It's much too much cliche!
4. Is Girl#1 trapped or not? She seems to be running aroudn aimlessly. More fake-feeling drama.
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1) Sound effects. I do realize that some of these might be placeholders, but the sound of the fellows pushing the sarcophagus lid was much too "big" sounding. Also, the hissing from the vampire ladies was a bit much. I've always had the opinion that the most effective sounds are subtle ones.
2) No need for the "slow the clip down for a couple moments for dramatic effect" shot. That shot is used for shots were there's a ton of things going on and you want the audience to see the detail. It's one of the most over-used and misused shots in movies today in my opinion.
3) No excessive shots of monsters simply snarling and doing nothing else. We know they're scary... they're monsters. A monster that stops and hisses at a character before chasing them is not a realistic monster. Pauses like that take the viewer out of the moment and hurts the flow of the action.
Good luck with the rest of post! It's always the most frustrating part! -
hey this is sweet...nice job! creepy black eyes!
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This is like commenting on two 10 second clips of a Jr. High School production of some play written by someone's talentless uncle.
This is a pointless request.
And anyone wanting a serious/useful response needs to provide several minutes (ie >5min) of something meaningful and provide proper context.
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I'm not familiar with the original, but this seems odd. I got the same feeling when I saw Marco Polo http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0813789/
. No suspense, no passion, shit stock music (I thought TV productions stopped using that crap), random angles of faces put together (Seriousli missing knowledge of basic filmmakeing, so to speak)...I could go on, but there seems no point and I do mean no harm. -
I see that Albert Pyun(?) checked in but how could anyone wade through all this shit. TBtitties says the editing is good while LoadsOfJizm says the editing is bad. Come on.
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It's tough to comment on scenes from a movie you haven't seen because i don't know in what context these fit into the story but my only two notes would be that in the first scene, you start with some nice establishing shots but then go tight for all the action. It seems a little jarring editorially. I would cut back to a quick master when they flip that lid off the tomb. Tonewise i understand you want to get intimate with these guys as they do their thing on the downlow but holding tight that long I've always found disorienting. Don't be afraid to establish the geography a little. It is a dark cave after all. Plus, cutting back to a wider master every once and a while will make your film seem subtly more epic. Whenever I see lower budgeted films holding on CUs constantly it makes it feel a little cheap. Second, the vampire scene isn't bad but that vampire chick hovers over the girl a bit too long. It's obvious you're holding for the titulation factor which is fine but it reads as a little unbelievable and a little sci fi channel. I hate it when monsters are in a position to kill someone and stop to "pose" or in this case, titalate. Tighten up the pace on that a bit and i think the scene will read as more real.
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there's one thing i never understood about hollywood vampires, creatures, whatever.... why is it, when you are being chased by a creature, that they stop, and snarl/growl/howl to apparently absolutely nothing but the camera? if the creature is calling out to another to give off its location, or sending a warning call, ok, justifiable, but when you're chasing some damsel in distress down a dark cave hallway, there's just no need to stop running, just to let out a lil cat meow and get the point across that these are, in fact, vicious, angry she-vamps. it simply ruins the tension and validity of the actual threat... whats scarier than a snarling creature? a smart one that runs fast, catches up to you, and then snarls at you before it eats you alive. same goes for dumb people who go towards awkward strange noises.
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I'll try. The first clip, it's hard to say; I would lessen the blue shading, though, or maybe go with reddish. It seemed to cut a little fast for a 'tomb opening'... seems like it shouldn't be an action scene, but a somber/dramatic moment.
The second scene needs some sort of clearer setup showing how the girls are in physical relation to each other. I thought the girl at the bars was in a separate location at first, and then I thought she was on the OTHER side of the bars from the vampire. I like the CONTENT of the scene, though! -
They could have bought a bag of skittles instead.
Honestly, there's no point wasting your time genuinely giving constructive criticism. Surely film-makers should know what they're doing?
Good advertising idea though!
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The music in the clips is a tad too clichéd, bombastic and "FUCK YEAH! LET'S DO SOMETHING EPIC"-y. It might work in the context of the film, but it doesn't work in these clips imo.
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I'm with seniorspeilbergio. It's hard to comment because I don't know where these scenes fit in the overall story. I don't know the characters. Here's one of my gripes when it comes to vampires in movies. Especially B movies. Overacting. Everyone knows that vampires are evil. Everyone knows that three petite female vampires, can rip though the whole defensive line of a football team with ease. We all know that they see humans as prey. So when I see this scene, and the main vamp chick is hovering over the woman she knocked down, there's no need for all the hissing, hovering, looking crazy and showing her fangs. I get that vamp chick is trying to torment the lady, but she's overdoing it. And all the hissing. They're not snakes. A hissing vampire chasing after you is scary. You know what else is also scary? A non hissing vampire chasing after you. The girl is crawling through the dark trying to get away from from two vampires that are right on her ass. We know she's scared. The over hissing vampires don't add to the creep factor. Another thing. I'm pinned down by a vampire and her two minions are lurking around. My son is sitting in the dark with a chance to get away, no one sees him, and I say run. I just gave away his position. Now if dummy made a noise and gave himself away that would be different. Or since we're dealing with vampires that have heightened senses, and are able to see and smell him, then that would be different also. But to say run when the person you care for is not in sight and you give away their position, that just doesn't make sense.
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Just like the dialogue scenes. There's no weight or substance - like that soft fade from the stone details to the interior shot of the cave. Both clips lack a sense of place and solid pacing. In the first, the flyover is nice (I agree with titling the island before getting inside it), but then to cut to inside we lose any sense of context and tension. For a scene like that to work, I want to see the faces of these men as they are climbing off the boat onto the island, walking through the jungle - the pause at the mouth of the tomb. No dialogue, just context to give the moment some weight.As for vampire chicks, I agree that hissing is passe, and was fairly disappointed that her voice sounded like a person voice. Give her a monster voice. The second clip was really confusing - again, like with a jungle-walk-with-telling-faces scene, there are no beats to tell us where we are when the lespires strike. And they strike like noodles. Neither the queen or the remarkably clean blonde chick seem to care much. I assume that's because this is the lead up to an orgy. That's how it plays. Going through motions to get to the tits, when the tits, metaphorically, should be happening right now. Vampires attack is the tits of this scene - dumb blondes vague distressed at future lesbian sex is its current vibe.I won't bother commenting on the music, because as someone else mentioned it's likely all temp. The other comments about sound design are spot on, too.
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on how hard will Talkbackers crush this film with little to no knowledge of the film right? Al and Bob Orci and Stallone had a kegger(I don't know why, they just did) and Stallone was like, "They crushed Rambo V based on a premise." and then Orci was like, "They hate when I take in a breathe of air." and then Al Pyun was like, "It can't be that bad." Then Sly and Bob were like, "We double dog dare you to throw some unfinished shit up there and see what happens." Sly goes, "Bob will blow you if the footage gets just ONE positive response." I think we met the quota so right now Bob Orci is blowing Albert Pyun.
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It doesn't have to be faces, either - it can be hands tightening on sword-hilts or a silhoutte of a blonde head against a grate, behind which the blurry figures of three vamps and a queen go at it in technicolour. You can reshoot some stuff artfully and cheaply with costumes and whoever is in the office at the moment.
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bringing out new movies.
I'm ready. -
? I thought I'd commented in this talkback, but my comments are gone. Were they inappropriate, or... or what? Technical glitch? It looks like comments by other users were deleted as well. What's with this? I didn't think the other comments were insulting.
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I made comments in the wrong talkback for this movie. I said I thought all the camera changes seemed excessive in the second clip.
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First I agree with several of the talkbackers above. The vampires stopping and letting out a hiss with mouth wide open and head slowly tilting to the side is horribly cliche and something I would expect to see in a 50's horror film.Second: It's probably too late for it now but if you are going to have extras with swords then make sure the ones who have zero stage combat training keep the swords sheathed. In the first clip where they enter the tomb or whatever it's pretty obvious that they aren't even sure how to hold them. It's like watching a movie where the supposed expert hunter keeps waving his rifle around in the direction of other people while keeping his finger on the trigger.Whatever you do please don't employ quick cuts and shaky-cam during the fight scenes. Despite what Hollywood seems to believe, most people find the technique annoying. A director might use the technique to hide the fact that there is little or no skill or choreography involved in the fights but that's like having the fight take place behind closed doors. Only closed doors don't tend to make people motion sick.
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I'd suggest this film's music finds a balance between ballsy and memorable as well as keeping with the period. It doesn't matter how few there are, the instruments must be REAL! Anything less to the discerning viewer is instant syfy movie material.
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And it was not offensive in any way.
Fuggin AICN ;) -
Please dont waste any more time on this movie.
Scrap it and start over. It looks terrible...
Please I beg you...Move on -
Got it. Good notes and we will adjust. I'll try to shoot some context next week when we are planing on a "Talkbackers' Reshoot". Really good comments. Again, much appreciated and thanks for taking the time. Maybe I can post at least one of these scenes revised with the adjustments that have been suggested here. Just to make sure we're on the right track.
Albert Pyun -
Very good notes as well that I will pass along to the composer.
Albert -
My biggest complaint is that the blue tone of the clips is to cool. The first clip is very good. The only thing I think it could use is a wider establishing shot of the crypt they are in. You don't really get a feel of the island or the crypt. The second clip needs a little more tension. I really thought that when the woman is thrown against the wall you really need to feel the impact better. It didnt seem like she hit as hard as she could. Maybe a stronger sound effect. but, overall, looking good. And I think getting ideas from talkbackers is a good idea. Thanks for letting us have some input. This alone will put my butt in the seat.
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The font in the first clip looks like something from my Commodore 64 from 1985 (yes I´m that old) and the transitions I can only assume are temp. They look like something I would do = Amateurish.
Hope this helps.. -
Really cool of you to drop in and have a few words with us in this and the previous talkback. It's also nice to hear that you seem receptive to our comments. While I don't want to place too much of an emphasis on out opinions, it might have been more productive to ask us a few general questions about the project before you launched into it. If nothing else it may have saved you both time and money if you indeed intend to make alterations.
I second the notion of a hearty, bombastic score for this film. Too many modern efforts have cheesy, noodling, Full Moon-ish, fake-orchestral scores. -
the fly over to start is beautiful.
show the name of the island just after we fly by the ship and then do your flash cut to the cave. skip the slow zoom on the skull relief. You could try a fast zoom with a good sound effect into the darkness of the broken doorway.
In the cave one of the actors looks like he doesn't know where to stand in the scene. he turns his back to the camera and shuffles sidways. maybe you can cut around that.
the close up looks great and the rest of the scene plays fine. -
... I'm greatly anticipating this sequel. So far, it looks like it might be pretty cool.
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Oct 30, 2009 4:22:40 AM CDT
Music's pretty bland, does'nt really underscore effectively IMHO
by killakane
And sounds like it was thrashed out on a DAW with one Kontakt session of EWSO.
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I third that about the score, make it big, make it bold, make it cheesy. Do not, at any stage, use anything that sounds remotely like Enya could do it.
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The score was also excellent in this second clip. I loved the hissing sound effect that occurred when the vampire pushes her tongue against her teeth. Almost like a serpentine lisp. Very cool. However, Tanis needs to move her ass a bit faster. She really seems to linger a bit too long. It kills all the tension.
I enjoyed the first two clips, but these are even better. I can't wait to see this film!
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I thought both of these clips were fun. In the first one, I love the wide-angle helicopter shot of the ship and the isle. Also, I the music is excellent. It's got a great vibe and makes the shots more engaging. I also like the Arabs in the caves, though it did totally remind me of Aladdin in the Cave of Wonders. But then again, it was also kinda reminiscent of Raiders of the Lost Arc, so that's pretty cool.
The score was also excellent in this second clip. I loved the hissing sound effect that occurred when the vampire pushes her tongue against her teeth. Almost like a serpentine lisp. Very cool. However, Tanis needs to move her ass a bit faster. She really seems to linger a bit too long. It kills all the tension.
I enjoyed the first two clips, but these are even better. I can't wait to see this film!
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I have not seen THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER in many, many years. (At the time, I was a kid who was probably up way too late watching cheesy cable.) So, guess what I'll be adding to my Netflix queue?Mr. Pyun - kudos to you for taking AICN Talkbacker comments to heart. Contrary to popular belief, this place does contain some of the most passionate and well-informed film fans on the planet. If you can stomach the insanity, I think you will find that the vitriol of AICN Talkback is matched only by its brilliance and hilarity.
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The title. The logo. The one-sheet! All the scenes involving Richard Moll in gross make-up, especially that *awesome* resurrection scene and the "Here, let me peel off my flesh disguise" scene. Richard Lynch as the other bad guy. That *ridiculous* three-bladed sword. The nudity and anything the earned it the R rating. Random dialog about the "kingdom of blah blah" and "the prince of nerducia" or whatever.
This looks and feels like Buffy so far, but I can tell from just this.
Soundtrack too "stock"! -
can't tell. Not can.
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The shot showing the photograph of the cave entrance looks just like a shot of a photograph. Its pretty bad!
Vampires... why do film makers stuff huge fangs in some hotties mouth and force her to try and speak around them. It always looks bad. Also, as someone stated earlier, they move exaclty like a human, its not scary. There must be some simple camera trickery to enhance the movement to appear wierd or different. I seem to recall that '28Days Later' used something like this on the infected people.
GL with the film and thanks for coming here and talking so us. -
Vampire chicks make much better films when they are topless! Its true!
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...the palette looks a little more in tune with the original S&tS, too. And I actually like the fact that the queen reminds me a bit of Talon's mom. The action still needs to be tightened, but in the vampire sequence, especially I could almost imagine I was watching a sequel to S&tS. Two things, said 'em before and I'll say 'em again. Dirt, sweat and...please, if you want this in any way to feel like the original...A Rousing Score. If you have any money at all left in the budget, the score is where you need to put it. Did I mention the music? Yeah, pay attention to that, if you can.
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And to be honest, a S&S film shouldn't be shy about T&A. It's schlocky fun.
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this is either straight to video or SYFY (gay friggin name now)or USA network movie/TV series... really, everyone on here needs to look at this, it's sad, and IF, IF it ever comes out, I see no way this is going theatrical. This is poor, '90s TV quality. Christ, stuff at my HOUSE isn't this clean. WEAK, very very WEAK. Sorry
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than a marketing ploy to get people to invest their time and make them think they're part of the movie making process.
It's one thing to ask for comments about a key sequence or the screenplay. But they give us a couple meaningless snippets and they want feedback on how it was cut or shot or lit? As if anything said here is going to have any impact on the quality of the final movie? Are they really hoping to get a profound response from those tiny clips that transforms the whole movie into something watchable? BR>
Clearly everything from the story, acting, dialog, makeup, wardrobe, props etc are poor, direct to video quality (or an episode of Xena as Vader77 points out) and none of it is going to change no matter what they do in post. The fate of this movie was set when they finished the screenplay. These aren't high school kids experimenting with their first camera. They knew exactly the kind of movie they were going to make from the very beginning. No one working on this film is that clueless or desperate for help. This is just a cheap, internet stunt/scam to sucker people to Netflix the movie.
And on the off chance that this really is an honest, serious request for comment, then, well, they have far bigger problems to worry about. -
I believe Veritasses is right. Unless you can see tangible improvement based on the comments and suggestions Talkbackers have kindly and generously put forth, it will be just an exercise in marketing. So I can only hope when we upload the next draft of these same scenes, you will some improvement. Can we totally undo all the flaws? No. We simply don't have those resources. But with the insight gained here, we at least have solid feedback to target our resources. I'm sorry if you feel we're wasting your time, but I think many direct to DVD and tv movies could benefit from this type of process. I hope Tales does.
Albert Pyun -
And please don't forget...Copious amounts of blood, gore and nudity!
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Certainly it is; even if Pyun IS examining these feedbacks for suggestions, the intent is surely to build interest.
Still, though, it's interesting to look at a scene and think about ways it could be re-edited and improved. Anything that helps talkbackers be more specific in their bitching is a good thing; spotting that lighting between edits is off is a whole lot more interesting than just "this sucks". -
I'm looking forward to this movie. I MISS these sorts of movies.
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you can do that shit and keep it cool without resorting to the cheesy Hans Zimmer impressions..
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I'm with you man. Not enough balls out fantasy movies nowadays. Swordfights with nobody getting cut? Just fake stabbing and bending over to sell it, no naked chicks. I miss those movies like Sword and The Sorcerer, Deathstalker, all that shit.
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If you're truly sincere, then I honestly don't get what you're looking to achieve.
The samples you provided are short, one minute clips of limited importance. Assuming you do improve the clips, what sort of impact do you expect these changes will have on the overall movie? If the people working on the film can't even handle something this minor, isn't this a sign of something a bit more serious? Shouldn't there also be another hour and a half or so of film that needs just as much, if not more attention? Are these fan contributions really worth advertising that the film is in desperate need of help? And if the situation isn't that dire, then why do this? To make a minute here or a minute there a tiny bit better?
I would think that anyone serious about making improvements to their films would look for comments regarding something substantial, something that would actually affect the quality of the film. And I would expect these issues would be of sufficient complexity that an experienced film maker would struggle fixing it on his own. Maybe the ending doesn't quite work and you can't figure out why, or maybe there's a key sequence that just doesn't flow the way you want, etc. Those requests I can understand. But you want comments about these two bite sized clips and expect us to believe that it will have some meaningful impact?
There's no question that most DTV movies suffer from all sorts of issues and constraints and would probably benefit from some sort of legit, semi-open, iterative review process. But any issues that can be corrected in post production will be insignificant compared to the huge mountain of quality and process oriented issues plaguing the production before it even gets to that point. It's like making a really bad meal using really bad ingredients with dozens of people adding their own spices and somehow thinking that arranging it nicely on the plate will make any difference.... post production is too late in the process. All the damage is already done.
I feel for people involved in DTV and I can't blame anyone for wanting to take something born under a tough situation and turing it into something respectable. But, unless I haven't made my point clear yet, what you're doing here won't really fix anything. And I know you know all this already, which is why I find it hard to believe this isn't just a marketing ploy or at the very least, a senseless exercise. Or are we to look forward to the greatest, most polished two minutes in DTV history?
If you're really serious about DTV "benefiting from this type of process", then why don't you open up the entire filmmaking process (or at least, much more of the process) for criticism, from writing the screenplay on forward (obviously too late here). Invite a few people that you think have given you useful feedback (or post an ad or go to one of the film schools or whatever... and of course make sure they're not related to anyone invovled with the financing... ), have them sign off on some paper work and get them involved from the beginning. Fix the big stuff that really needs fixing. Give people something to comment on which would be worth their time. Do I think that this is a realistic initiative? No. But if you're sincere then it's worth a try... and you can always sell it as a marketing gimmick that'll boost sales...
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All we can do is suggest what to eliminate. We don't know what other footage there might be. All you can say is stay with this shot longer or take this part out. You can't go back and take all the shirts off the female vamps, or make the knights look tougher, so by default our input is either limted at best or useless or idiotic. Good luck sifting through it all. On a side note it is unique and fun to have the opportunity to comment on footage regardless of its flaws and limitations.
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What's up with Oliver Grunner? How come he's not in this? Nemesis was the shit dude!
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Nice helicopter cam shot sweeping over the waters, interesting music and then a novel way of introducing the tomb with those two shots getting closer. Pretty cool filmmaking. Lighting looks good too. Only thing I would say is capitalise the caption and use a different font. Nice!
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Maybe a tighter edit needed to make it more exciting, and the music is a little out of place, perhaps something more seductive and eerie? But yeah, looks promising. Thanks for sharing!
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nice to see a traditional low-budget piece of genre filmmaking, with no notice taken of the Bay 'fucking the frame' trend that has wrecked cinema over the past 10 years.
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Oct 31, 2009 3:31:13 PM CDT
"The filmmakers are listening"? What, they can't read?
by mrmysteryguest
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