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Look Upon Two Rough Cut Clips From TALES OF AN ANCIENT EMPIRE - THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER Pseudo-Sequel!!
Merrick here...
We've seen promotional images from the film (HERE and HERE), spent time watching a live video feed from the set as Lee Horsely showed up to reprise the role he originated in SWORD AND THE SORCERER (HERE), and wondered if that three-bladed sword will make an appearance (which it will).
Now, director Albert Pyun has posted two clips from TALES OF AN ANCIENT EMPIRE. This is a pseudo-sequel to THE SWORD AND THE SORCERER - a notion which Albert promised audiences at the end of SWORD way back in 1982.
PLEASE NOTE: these clips are in rough cut form and do not reflect final pacing/product. They are works in progress, pure and simple.
ALSO KNOW THAT The Powers That Be are really interested in hearing constructive feedback about these clips - so this might be a good opportunity to have your perceptions/words actually heard by filmmakers while a project is still being refined. Something to think about before unleashing ungodly torrents of snark in the Talkbacks below.
Here are the clips. The second clip (the one at the bottom) I don't think is quite there yet. One solution may be to de-emphasize Janelle Taylor, who seems to be trying a little too hard.
The first clip (on top)...I like quite a bit. There's a charm, cleverness, and earnestness to the sequence (and its performances) that I really dig.
What do you think?
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Did this girl learn her lines 5 minutes before the retarded lizard yelled "Action"?
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Looks Like Kevin Sorbo is channeling is Hercules days :)
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Sorbo's no de Niro, but at least he can point his face in the right direction and say the words like he isn't trying to read his lines from a board that's got them written out phonetically being held up out of shot. That said, SWORD has a place in my heart and I just know I'll end up watching this at the earliest opportunity.
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IMDB has Val Kilmer listed as Rollo. Poor poor Val.
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... one of those over-the-top, spots of CGI, fantasy pornos they make these days (PIRATES, FORBIDDEN TALES, SEX WARS (based on Star Wars prequels from Germany, etc.)...except Kevin Sorbo shows up.
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Thanks for telling me!
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"Do you plan to, like, rob her, n junk?"
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I say get the blond girl in both sequences a more desperate outlook or demeanor she seems like she's trying to act. Sorbo has this role down, he played it b4 in Hercules so he's fine. The supporting cast though seems too "fresh off acting school" they don't compliment each other in their lines specially in RoughCut#2. Seems like Sorbo belongs in this role while the others are in another movie all together. Also if the shots were more dramatic with different angle shots of the characters talking ie Birdseye view or a rotating 180 angle shot that captures the background while they are about to mount the horses. I really think they should take a page from Hong Kong cinema and the way they establish the look and feel for some of their movies. House of flying daggers, YipMan, Hero.... many of these balance the fantasy with realism quite beautifully. Not that Sorbo needs to be on wires but I'm talking about the camera shots and pacing. Well there's my lil' tidbits!
-ElJuano -
Tighten up the beats between the actors and cut down on the wide shots. Use less dramatic music and boom... Badass film.
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It seems that at this point there is very little they could do to help performances, which is too bad. While I do agree that the women were not very comfortable or natural, Sorbo was just to modern. The dialog and conviction was too opposed. Unless it's supposed to be a comedy his facial expressions were a bit too much of what we think a tough guy in a bar is and less natural. His jaw kept swaggering back and forth and I think it's Sorbo that needs to be toned down.
Perhaps keep dialog to a minimum and use some second unit footage to fill in the games. Definitely do some ADR with the women and if at all possible take out all the talk of "the gods". -
...all that's missing is Bruce Campbell.
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...is going to cover up that SHITSTAIN quality acting. The guy who said this looks like a SyFy Original Movie is dead on. This looks really, really, REALLY awful. It makes me wonder if Albert Pyun is a pseudonym of Uwe Boll's.
Using Vimeo to pander such trash somehow makes the internet seem cheapened. That's how bad those clips are. -
hahahahhahahahhahhahhahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
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This is the sort of stuff I eat up, even if it won't win awards.
I see what you're saying about Taylor. She seems like she's trying to project a tough/confident/warrior attitude by copying a man and being overly blustery; I don't think that works. Tough women have a different source of strength than tough men.
Regardless, though... this is one of the few movies where I don't mind seeing unrealistically hot women, acting poorly. That may HELP in recreating the swords & sorcerer vibe. I find myself really liking Sorbo in the role, incidentally. -
scoring this whole movie.
Hot Sumerian Nights. -
If it's a group of misfits going against the odds, the key is to first develop each of the characters and then mix them up in interesting pairings. Think something like Guns of Navarone/Dirty Dozen instead of Lord of the Rings. There really isn't a need to have them all fighting in one big scrum...especially if you don't have the budget to pull off an impressively populated battle scene.
Not all actors are created equal. One thing Robert Rodriguez does is figure out what a given actors does well, and then really tries to focus their scenes/lines on that. This does not mean short-changing your actors, but you have to be very creative with how you reshape their roles in the film.
Perhaps the most important thing is stage convincing fights. Do not go for the post-Saving Private Ryan quick cuts. Concentrate on making battles and situations easy for the audience to follow along and place in proper context. I always remember it was the movie Rashomon that taught me that most samurai fights did not last more than a couple of swings. Not every fight has to be over and done quick, but try to map each encounter out appropriate to the combatants and the weapons involved. Be imaginative.
I was a fan of the first film and am looking forward to the second. Movies like this do not need hammy one-liners or scenes that set up hammy one-liners. Construct a solid sword and sorcery story, populate it with some interesting characters, direct your actors well, and let the story come to life.
Oh, and one last thing: the score matters. Try for something 60's sword and sandal era, not electric guitar "Kull the Conqueror" or wailing woman "Troy" era.
If there's something more specific that you are trying to get in terms of feedback, please let me know. -
1) The cinematography is WAAY too clean - add some digital grain to help in bookend with the first film - and for God's sake RESIST the urge to do any of the de-saturation/hue tricks that Lord of the Rings made so popular. The original movie had a wonderful "shot in natural light" appearance that should be homaged. 2) Sorbo is fine - charming and personable. The rest of the cast - uh - bad. I'd suggest getting some good voice actresses to dub their lines, especially the brunette in the red top who calls Sorbo "cousin." Sorry, but she's awful. So obvously "reading" the lines as not to be believed. She sounded like Keanu in "Dracula." Yes, that bad. First scene gives me hope - the second? Woof. Casting, my friends. Casting. A pretty face is not enough to forgive bad acting.
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Ya know, it's not that Kevin Sorbo's acting is bad, it's just that it looks like it was written & directed by a 6th grader
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I'm a fan of cheesy fantasy and Kevin Sorbo, but this looks stiffer than Kull The Conqueror. I think it would work more if it didn't seem like the actors were told to enunciate every word. They just don't sound comfortable speaking the dialogue, especially without any hint of accents. Everyone's also very clean with LA hair and makeup... I'm trying to keep snark out of this, but I really kind of agree with IAmLegolas that it's got a look of a softcore porn. If you go back and watch something like Sword and the Sorceror or Deathstalker or any of those early 80's low budget fantasy movies, they're schlocky but there's atleast a certain dirtiness to eveything. It doesn't look like every character just stepped out of their trailer with a bottled water just outside the shot. I dunno... if I could sum up my feeling on these two clips, it doesn't look like anyone's having any fun, and a movie like this will live or die by how much fun it is.
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The final scene with Sorbo and the girls sort of just sits there, with no energy whatsoever. Needs stronger editing (and acting), especially at the end. The ending should escalate with a sense of fun and adventure, especially when it ends with a line like "There are kingdoms to save.." It's a rousing call to adventure that falls flat.
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...nudity, practical, not CG gore...and has to show us at least one thing we haven't seen before.That's the real goal...show me at least one thing I haven't seen on screen before. You've got to be the movie where X happens...and if you mention it everyone knows exactly what movie you mean.That's my two cents.
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Oct 26, 2009 2:22:08 PM CDT
Who taught that blonde valley girl to act? Ron Jeremy???
by darthmrbelvedere
Because with acting skill like that, I say her next part will be a 3way with Jon Jeremy and Lexingston Steel
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Oct 26, 2009 2:24:31 PM CDT
I hope at least Kevin Sorbo was able to BANG one of those chicks
by darthmrbelvedere
Why else would he do a "movie" with lower production value than a filler episode of...what was that stupid Barbarian show he was on?
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Especially from the INTERNET! LOL! Sorbo is fine... "Half!!!" But it does reek Hercules, not Sword And The Sorcerer... but then again, it's been a long time since I saw that movie. There sure is a lot of peeps heading out for adventure in that second clip, too many to live long. ;-) Frankly, if it's not in the script, it's not going to be saved by creative editing. Editing should be tightening up an already tight narrative... Unless they have the powers of Lucas to really edit creatively, but that would be too expensive I think. If there was some way to alter the "look", I would go for that, give it a less Straight To Video SyFy movie of the week look. Good luck.
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Oct 26, 2009 2:27:12 PM CDT
Kevin, I hope the check cleared bro! That's all you gotta worry
by darthmrbelvedere
Seriously, Sorbo just wants to but another house, so he took the part. You can't blame him
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...when there was no sequel to The Sword and the Sorcerer. Such marvelous crap it was. Lee Horsely (t.v.'s Matt Houston), the incredible Richard Lynch, a three-bladed sword that fired its blades, a goofy explosion of a score by David Whitaker, Kathleen Beller, the little bald guy from Murphy Brown, Reb Brown, George Maharis, Bull from Night Court as an evil wizard, R rated nudity and violence. One of the best of the horrible post Conan sword and sorcery movies (seriously, up there with She, Beastmaster and The Warrior and the Sorceress--yeah, THAT GOOD). So now Albert Pyun's finally delivering. Oh yeah, I knew if I just waited him out I'd have my sequel.
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HAHAHAHA
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"Methinks we will surf some fine waves there."
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Oct 26, 2009 2:30:01 PM CDT
I have problems with it, but the word is still out--
by the reluctant austinite
I really love the original "Sword and the Sorcerer," and most of the dialogue here references the original script, but falls flat when trying to be nostalgically funny. For me, this just doesn't capture the tone and/or spirit of what I loved so much about the original. Lee Horsely brought an Errol Flynn-esque, devil-may-care spin to the hero that Kevin Sorbo just doesn't seem to be interested in trying to duplicate. The young girls are just plain terrible (but the producers already know that; they just hope their 'hotness' will blind everything else). We've yet to see any of the cool weapon gimmicks or action sequences cut together or even any cool monsters or evil sorcerers, so things might still be saved. I find it strange that these two scenes were the scenes the producers wanted us to see first. The project is not going to win over the audience with acting.
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Either minimize the amount of dialogue or modernize it so the female actors won't be so uncomfortable speaking their lines. It's obvious that they're all having issues with the bulky "fantasy" speech patterning and language. Trimming the shots down would also help, as every scene felt like it was overstaying it's welcome by a few beats. A few minor things: edit out the "sipping" sound when Sorbo takes his last drink, don't be lazy; add some background chatter in both scenes to intimate a busy area, as right now it sounds like they're in a ghost town.
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I agree with the others... Sorbo has a charm (and his delivery of "Half!" got a laugh from me), but the stiltedness of the high-fantasy speak is certainly hurting things, especially with the rest of the cast. If possible, having the other actors dub some of the scenes with more casual line readings (just in delivery if not with tweaked writing) would help. In general though, cutting down on the dialog/exposition in the editing room might help the most.
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"I am poised to empty all coin from my Coach purse on some fine garments!"
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But at least all the actors and crew got paid, so it's all good
woooooord -
Seriously, you made a bad and greatly fun movie almost thirty years ago. You're making a sequel that probably has a budget not much higher than the first one, and we're not talking adjusted for inflation. You've got people who aren't actors surrounding a lead who is barely an actor. You have one scene in a bar and shot so tightly that you're clearly hiding the poverty of set and extras. The second scene takes place in a completely abandoned "village". The combined dramatic tension of the scenes is nil, and the first scene is a very flaccid attempt at a redo of the bar scene between Horsely and Beller from the original. As someone who sort of loves the original (and only somewhat ironically) this looks DOA. Based on these two scenes tosave it you would have to rewrite and recast it, and let's face it, on the budget you've got that's not going to happen.
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Ask those girls to come back for reshoots. NAKED reshoots that is.
If not, you might as we kiss ALL your investors $$$ goodbye & jump off a cliff, dude. Sorry -
AGAINST THE WORLD CRIME LEAGUE! YAHOOOO!
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made an obvious error when she said "together, we're to destroy" with a stammer and yet they went with it.
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I was thinking the same. That should have been the moment where you are like, "fuck yeah". Instead you're just wondering if the scene is over. Heh.
That line feels like it was written to be pronounced but it's sort of lost in the horses asses. I assume they were going for a sullen moment as if something dreadful is going to happen to them all. It's out of context so it's a little hard to tell.
And as FlickaPoo stated, the only thing that can save this is over the top action and some boobage. Some awesome creature work can go a long way, but whatevs. Hope it wasn't too costly. -
I agree. Sorbo looks like a pro when it comes to the others in those clips :)
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Oct 26, 2009 2:43:06 PM CDT
"Make for the Isle of Fashion, in the beach of Newport!"
by mattmanbegins
"And there we will battle the dark sorcerer Kobe."
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has hit all over it.
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I disagree about the camera work. I love Pyun's cinematography. In fact, it's the only reason I still watch his films. Left For Dead was beautiful. I agree with the Merrick about the first clip. It's pretty good, but still, only Sorbo seems comfortable with the dialogue and setting. The girl is passable however. In the second scene they just seem like they're trying too hard, like they're at a Renaissance Festival. It's too theater, and not enough cinema. That's really the problem with almost all high fantasy, and only the best can make it work well. With that in mind though, I still love when we get even lower class fantasy films.
Tighten up the editing, try to cut the awkward dialogue, but don't sacrifice what you're trying to do with the characters just because the actors ham it up a little. Trust me, we've been watching low-budget fantasy for a long time now, and we're used to a little ham. Sometimes we just forget that when we log in to the talkbacks here. -
It looks like an episode of Hercules , probably is a camp as an episode of Hercules, and seems to have none of the 'grit' from the original movie judging by even 2 , minute long clips.
Casting Sorbo ( who is fucking great as HERCULES ) should have never been cast in this movie.
Dammit..I have waited years for a sequel to this movie :-(
If it has tits, swearing and gore, then it MIGHT raise my hopes...
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.. to come to this site of all places to ask people for constructive advice or input on anything... unless they have some kind of badass vitriol filtering device.
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It would have been nice if they hired actors.
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this better have plenty of blood and naked chicks
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Goofy dialogue, terrible acting. Is this a direct-to-DVD or VOD title? Surely this isn't destined for theaters. It seems more like a cheap cable channel movie of the week.
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The score. At least half of what made the first one so fun was the bombastic score. It sounded like a 1930s swashbuckler, and it really set the tone for the film. PLEASE use a similar score, because if you try to add epic LotR type music, it will give the movie a more serious-vibe, and NO ONE will be able to forgive the acting in a serious high fantasy. A schlocky high fantasy swashbuckler with some overacting from hot chicks? I'm still in the seats.
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I agree that I think the majority of the people skipped the article and just watched the clips, not realizing that it was clear that the producers wanted some legit feedback (IE they're reading the talkbalks)
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It IS way to clean, it needs a filter over the lens, and some digital grain added.
If Lord Of The Rings was shot like that, it would have made half the fucking money it did.
If you are reading this Mr Director, grunge up the look of the film a bit before you release it.
Get BOTH those chicks in skimpier clothes ( think of how the girls looked in Deathstalker )
Of course I will watch this , as I love the first film, but maaaan :-( -
I'm POSITIVE this needs gratuitous nudity. That better?
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Janelle (in the second clip, the brunette with the tattoo) was charming enough that she's gets a pass with me. At least she looks like she's trying, whereas the Blonde one struggles.
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Barbi Benton!
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Yeah, as everyone else said the acting from the women is abysmal, but Kevin Sorbo really sells it. Maybe try to ADR a better performance from the ladies? Hell, dub over them if you need to (like they did in Flash Gordon).
The production quality feels like a porno, or at best a Syfy channel movie. The shots are really bland (watch some Kurosawa or Leono or Cameron before shooting!), which keeps it from feeling like a theatrical feature.
Further, there's no mood or atmosphere, just pretty lights illuminating all of the flaws in the production design.I mean, everything is so clean! I thought bathing was infrequent in that time. Another effect is that nothing looks lived in.
For clip 2, specifically, I'd go for more wide shots and OTS shots to establish some spatial relationships. I found it very confusing because I had no idea where everybody was in relation to each other. This is further confused since it kept cutting from medium to medium shot of similar looking women, with no frame of reference.
I hope this helps and I hope you're able to make something worthy of more than SyFy! -
I think one issue with the cinematography is that they're using HD cameras, used for television and sport events. Because of that, everything is vivid but incredibly flat. BUt..they're cheap to use.
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I don't know... HUGE fan of the original of course, but I try not to let that color my judgment. As I watched the clips, what I kept thinking was "yeah, I'd watch it, probably like it even, but it looks like a made-for-TV movie". Sure, I understand these are rough cuts, so maybe that changes... but I don't think so because I was looking at the acting... how they delivered their lines. To me, it looked a little amateur, which equates to made-for-TV movie usually. Hey, don't get me wrong: there's been some decent enough made-for-TV movies over the years, that's not *necessarily* the kiss of death... but out of s major motion picture? Nah, not a great sign. So, for me... not at all sure I'd pay the money to see this in the theater, but I'll absolutely add it to my Netflix queue and look forward to getting it (at least, based on these small clips).
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There's nothing constructive that can be said about this, because there's nothing that can save it, short of scrapping the whole thing and starting over. Who is deluded enough to think that these Californians are capable of delivering dialogue in any way appropriate for a sword and sorcery flick? Sci Fi Channel, here we come.
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Oct 26, 2009 3:05:12 PM CDT
"There are kingdoms to be saved, and shoes to be bought."
by mattmanbegins
"A credit card shall be my sword, and a chihuahua my shield. I am poised to max out. OMG."
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Dick In Ass.
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This movie will do until a real King Conan comes through.
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The movie needs more sluts!
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"There we will taste of mead at Dave and Busters and fill our perfectly toned bellies near to bursting at Red Robin."
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...because the likely had the budget size of the spare change I found between the cushions on my couch.
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You want me to get all excited about this project, and the two clips are primarily of... people talking? No monsters? No blood-soaked action? No hints of gratuitous nudity? Sheesh...
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And marketed for the overweight Xena crowd. What in hell is the appeal of anything shown for this flick yet?
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Makes me think the fight scenes could be fun.
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I'm loving what I'm seeing so far, the first one didn't have the best acting either but it worked for the material. That kind of story told in HD with good special effects (or better yet, bad CGI) will be priceless! I always thought the 3 bladed sword was funny. A sword to sword clash with that thing would break it in half since it's made to separate. I am hoping for lots of blood and sex (remember the whorehouse scene when they planned the rescue?) and really bad music. Everything about this movie must scream b-movie just like the first one. Now when are we gonna get some more "Deathstalker?"
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Doesn't work.
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...was something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime. I guess that speaks volumes about the project's crapilicousness.
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But New World accents don't work in fantasy films.Other stuffs cool though :)
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If you have the money CGI some of the background, most especially in the second sequence. One of the cool things about the first movie was how simple but well chosen locations, like King Richard's garden or the mountains where we first see Talon, gave the film a feeling of scope. The scrub these folks are riding through looks like you just found a old quarry south of Culver City. By the way, I second the vote for a big, fruity score. It helped the original a lot. In fact, the main theme currently resides on my box that makes song. You're probably going into this with more goodwill (among a small but stupidly loyal group of fans of the original) than you have any right to expect. So general advice? Make it fast, loud, and charming as you can. I looked at your cast list on IMDB and you've got as much odd talent as the first one. With Kilmer, Lambert and Horsely (who yeah, probably has only the tiniest of cameos) you've got three guys who can ham their way through a city of kosher. Assuming you've already finished principal photography cut them to show off their hamminess to the best effect. Quick cuts, often in mid-action, as you had in the original, and accompany every transition with a big brass explosion. One last thing: this doesn't look nearly sleazy, dirty or sweaty enough. More of all of that, and I'm not just talking nudity here. Horsely spent the whole first movie looking like he needed a bath, and it worked.
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And the whole hitting on your' hot half-sister was obvious.
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Oct 26, 2009 4:03:00 PM CDT
They should give each talkbacker 3 minutes of uncut footage
by kikuchiyoboy
We each edit however we want then send it right back to them.
That would be a fun experiment.
That or reshoot the hole film with Johnny Drama and sell it to HBO. -
Sorbo's always been the standout actor...because he's always been in sh*t like this. Half-assed, corny projects that leave you scratching your head. No budget for talent, or even decent wardrobe. I'm even surprised real horses were used.
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Oct 26, 2009 4:09:01 PM CDT
"The first clip (on top)...I like quite a bit. There's a charm,
by phantm_cruisr
Well, of course you would, because it's almost identical to a scene from "Sword and the Sorcerer" where Lee Horsley is talking to Kathleen Beller. The problem is, the blonde is no Kathleen Beller. Even tighter editing couldn't punch up that wooden performance.
As for the second clip, all of the women seem to be trying too hard, as though they just read the script seconds before shooting. They sound forced, over-emphasized and over-enunciate. Most of their dialogue should be just cut altogether.
As much as I loved the first movie, I'm not sure if these clips will help or hurt this film (probably hurt). -
Oct 26, 2009 4:09:02 PM CDT
"The first clip (on top)...I like quite a bit. There's a charm,
by phantm_cruisr
Well, of course you would, because it's almost identical to a scene from "Sword and the Sorcerer" where Lee Horsley is talking to Kathleen Beller. The problem is, the blonde is no Kathleen Beller. Even tighter editing couldn't punch up that wooden performance.
As for the second clip, all of the women seem to be trying too hard, as though they just read the script seconds before shooting. They sound forced, over-emphasized and over-enunciate. Most of their dialogue should be just cut altogether.
As much as I loved the first movie, I'm not sure if these clips will help or hurt this film (probably hurt). -
Oct 26, 2009 4:12:19 PM CDT
"We must needs purchase new horses to match our outfits!"
by mattmanbegins
"Brown is so last age."
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What is it with movies today? They all look like they were done in digital video on some sound stage. I bet the Clash the Titans remake will look like this. Remember when movies were on film and filmed outside? Yeah the good ol' days.
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Screw the trash comments above. I am thrilled to see someone trying to pull off the promised sequel to the legendary Sword and the Sorcerer. I pretty much agree with the above comets that Merrick made. De-emphasize Janelle Taylor, she seems to be trying too hard. Cutting back on dialog always makes a b-film better. More atmosphere always helps. And I hope Lee Horsely is going to have a significant role, (with some flashbacks to his youth in the original film to help audiences know who he is - if possible). THIS FILM DESERVES TO BE MADE. We have waited years! Don't let some of the immature blather here deter you. I see what you are doing. There is a freedom and a glory to a fun B medieval movie (providing its done well with witty dialog) that some of todays generation just doesn't get. Lastly, CONCENTRATE ON HAVING DECENT MUSIC!!!!! Bad music can ruin a decent B- flick beyond words!!! Crap that sounds too radio-shack keyboardist can ruin any picture. Find a way to score the film, even if its an orchestra from one of the smallest countries on earth. Or find some decent medieval metal band that actually could score it without being cheesy. Look how badly Sorbo's "Kull" movie came off in places cause of its rock score!
P.S., having Sorbo hitting on his half sister is pretty sick! Might not want to go that far. On the other hand, it could show character growth in him proving he does indeed grow as the movie progresses, she earns his respect, etc. Great to see Sorbo back in something fun like this. -
Also, you guys gotta remember to play up the whole sword and sandal/peplum aspect of it. There's not only gotta be naked chicks, but dudes flexing the whole time for no reason. Half the fun of those barbarian movies were the muscle dudes acting.
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The blond belongs in a porno, not a legit movie. Sorry, I really hope the movie turns out well since I love fantasy, but this looks even worse then The Last Legion.
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And my wife fracking hates it. I don't get to watch Flash Gordon or S&TS nearly enough because of that.
On the the clips: I agree with all those who said it all looks too damn clean. The actors, the sets, the HD video... everything. I never watched much Xena or Herc - mostly because everything looked so damn clean. Fantasy movies should look dirty. There should be a bit of grime on everyone and a bit of grime in the acting.
The girls in the 2nd clip were terrible. I am a 6'220lb guy and can play a better woman that some of that acting (but they are cuter).
Either dub the voices, find new actresses (better yet don't go for the mostly girl adventuring marauder party, that is so freshman high school D&D game) or call this Cheesy Fantasy Pseudo Porn and keep S&TS out of it. Someday someone should be able to make the sequel w/o fucking it up too bad. -
How do you make the paragraph breaks in this damned place again?!
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insert without spaces.
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I know he is playing a different character here (Hercules wouldn't care about the money), but Kevin Sorbo and a sword equals Hercules to me. Since I like Hercules and I like the Sword and the Sorcerer there is a good chance I'll like this. Just make sure there is a battle that somehow tops the last one from the first movie. I think the only way that is possible is to up the number of blades from 4 to however many you can. Just imagine a hidden blade inside another blade!
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Damn, how can you not figure that out? Also.. someone complaining about lack of foley/ambience also needs to get a grip. ITS A FUCKING TEMP SCENE YOU DIPSHIT. Get a clue, please.
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is like a guy going to a lesbian bar, getting up on stage in front of tons of hostile drunk lezzies, and saying "ladies, am I hot, or what?!??"
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Are you at all related to PartyAlarm? That dude always rocked the house yo
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They should do that in this film... and maybe add some Dragons.
But definitely flash bush. Imax bush. Hairy ass 80's bush. -
There's your $12.50
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Is it O.K. to thoroughly trash this movie or are there going to be Kevin Sorbo fanoboys who show up and say the criticism is unwaranted since we haven't seen this masterpiece yet? I mean, fuck, the casting of Sorbo alone kills it for me.
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Seriously, Kevin Sorbo is a shit actor and he always will be be. He's one note. It's Hercules in every single role he plays, just like Andromeda and Kull. I don't care who's in this movie, he's the most unbelieveable and uninteresting actor.
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Looks great. CAN'T WAIT!!
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Props for some hilarious dialogue, dude :D
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One of the strengths of the first film is the rich, striking photography. It's a really good-looking film. But because this has been shot on digital video rather than film, it lacks the texture and atmosphere of the original, in my opinion. Clean, cold and flat. I don't know what's possible with digital grading these days, but I'd say they really need to put some time in on that aspect. I think in the first clip there is the suggestion of a fun movie in there somewhere, it just looks cheap at the moment. Work on dirtying up the image a bit and this could have potential...
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you're left with whatever you can do in post.Agree with C3PO that the color correction needs to be on the money here. Darken it up.And I'm with the majority that the less those women talk, the better the film will be. And at least half of them need to be naked at some point.Can't wait for the Lee Horsely cameo.
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Don't know why, there's such an awesomeness to his presence. Even in Andromeda, it left wondering: What if he was Captain Kirk? Well done, Kevin. I'll watch this only to see how your character develops.
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the movie is by albert pyun...so naturally it will suck
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The clips I saw were OK. Like daytime soap opera acting. But the original movie was campy so this movie should be no different. I hope good money is going to special effects. I really hope this doesn't look like something off of the SyFy channel! I'm a big fan of the original, but that was due to the sword. So if this company wants to assure that they break even on this movie, they need to license the sword. Better yet, package the original and new movie along with sword and call it a deluxe package.
Judas -
I don't know what everyone's problem is, I love the digital look of this thing. Clean, cold and flat sounds fine to me, but then I love watching sports, it just seems normal to me.
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Oct 26, 2009 9:14:27 PM CDT
Agree the photography is too clean and so are the actors.
by hollywoodhellraiser
Guys back in those day were usually dirty and sweaty because baths and showers weren't a luxery!And women weren't as mouthy too. Tone the dialouge down and keep the clothes to a minimal!Also let everyone have fun and keep it campy!
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Oct 26, 2009 9:15:31 PM CDT
BTW, haven't seen the first movie in years and now
by hollywoodhellraiser
I'm on the hunt to get it on dvd or something!
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Know what else is hilarious? The Made in China stamped on his "medieval" tankard. AWESOME!
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All else pales under his sandalled feet.
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He's done a Streets of Fire sequel that looks like poop. And he made Tom Cody into a serial killer. Die in a fire.
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Seriously, since day 1 this thing has had nothing but Sci-Fi Channel (excuse me, SyFy --stupid as shit) quality written all over it, yet we keep getting all these enthusiastic posts about the film as if we actually cared. There are tons of films out there in production of similar quality and scope which are ignored...I'm not trying to bash this project, I'm sure I'll watch it when it hits DVD/Sci-Fi (Syfy, if you insist), I just don't see what all the excitement's about, and yes, I've seen the original and enjoy it.
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Pyun is the master sorcerer.
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If you told me Uwe Boll directed that, I'd believe you. Just swap Kevin Sorbo with Jason Statham and you have "Dungeon Seige II." The pacing is off and also no one is convincing in their roles nor seems particularly excited to be there. Maybe faster cutting would help but Jesus. I loved "Sword and the Sorcerer" as well, but fuck that.
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Oct 26, 2009 10:49:51 PM CDT
I love that someone referenced George Lucas up there...
by the_goddamn_batman
The only thing he had over this guy, is a bigger budget. Skills = same.
This does look terrible though. What I loved about the original was that, while it was fantasy, it looked and felt fun and contemporary. Actually, kind of like the original Star Wars. Movies in the 80s just seemed more effortlessly playful. This doth tryest too hard to be mythical.
I love Sword and the Sorceror and I don't know if I could watch this without full new nudity and penetration.
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Not that anyone here cares. But it will be cool to see him back. I just wish this film were of the same calibre.
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Ha ha ha ha. Was there a script? Kev may call one of the "actresses" Rommie.
The original is well worth watching, though. -
Why speak in Ye Olde English & keep American accents?
Sorbo's ok though. It cleanses the pallete after a heavy meal. Apparently. -
Seriously, "porno" was the first thing I thought when I watched this. I love the first movie to death so I'm not a hater.
Why is it so hard to find actresses who can speak in a believable accent? Horsley is unmistakably North American, as is Sorbo and the original's Lynch--but they could still deliver lines which sounded believable in a fantasy context. Same with the women in the first movie. Why does every female in modern fantasy B-movies sound like a lobotomized San Fernando valley bimbo? Are they refusing direction? Are the directors refusing to direct them? Are they blowing the directors in order to avoid putting in extra effort? Compare these women to Kathleen Beller in the original--see/hear the difference?
Seriously, the first movie was probably cheap as hell but you can see the love and effort put into it. This looks tepid and lazy.
Want to make this work?
1) Dirty it up a bit, make it rough around the edges.
2) Don't try to hide cheap production values by desaturating the image. Be colorful and proud like the original.
3) Force the women to work on their line delivery. Or get women who can and will.
4) Gore and noo-diddy (large, non-siliconed breasts, thank you very much)! -
nothing can save that, MAYBE going the porn route....but other than that just set fire to that celluloid.
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It honestly has failure written all over it because the folks behind the scenes messed up from the start. They could have: Put some grime and dirt under the nails of the men and women. Made the clothing worn looking, made the teeth brown/Amy Winehouse-like, made it seems as though the characters bathed every three days. And the lighting--it needs to reflect the filth in the air, and the smells around them. It should't look like a bunch of LAIR folks riding around in ill-fitting halloween costumes on a summer day in Florida. I mean, you don't need a huge budget to dirty things up. Give some film students that money and they can go film in Central Park at night and make it look better than that. Why even produce a film when it looks like that?
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always helps. You did ok, Kevin Sorbo. Your co-stars however, better be working for free. If not, they need some major coaching.
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Wrong actor/actresses... feels like cheap TV episode.
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This looks like it will probably air on the SyFy Channel before it's released on DVD, and then a week later will be in the $5 bargain bin at Walmart.
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look at the nonsense these films should be. I'll take Deathstalker over this anaemic shit.
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Not even a bead of sweat on the metaphoric balls of the original 'Sword'
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That's my advice, take it or leave it.
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marketing?
That would be awesome if this was just a switcheroo. Next week they put out a trailer and it's this badass, raw, dirty, fun Sword and Sorcerer flick. Blood, guts, magic and tittay.
But I don't think that's the case. -
Why do these producers never get it right?
Listen up guys, in mediaeval times, people did not look like Los Angeles citizens. -
ScyFy Original, here this comes! Good grief, the acting is craptastic. Sorbo is fine. He knows what this is. But the chicks, who look way to pretty for these roles, seem to have just come off a Liftime Teen movie.
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This feels much like the Legend of the Seeker. Modern people trying to sound like fantasy characters. Solid Movies of this genre tend to rely on visual elements and differently paced wording than anachronistic phrases like wenches and other fantasy fare. Also the shots are all straight on and boring in the second section. Our interest would be better served if the visual matched what the characters were trying to convey.
Shortening the sequence could also lend some weight to it.
The female leads need to either believe what they're saying, like Sorbo, or at least get their faces to match their words. Right now they all seem to be reading it off screen without any weight or care. -
The amateur porn chicks sound so convincing (or not) because they actually don't understand what they were saying.
I also get the feeling whoever wrote / produced / directed this never saw the original. It was by no means an oscar winner but it was fun camp with cool fights, boobies and it embraced its camp. I mean he stops a rape and beats up the bad guys with a turkey leg!
"that's a small threat... a very small threat" <--- Priceless! -
Forsooth it reeks of Grondar's ballsack
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...about women in modern fanatsy B-movies is that they all look terrified of the props.
This is the conversation that needs to be heard more often on set:
"Afraid to break a nail? Get the fuck out of here. Yes, I know you suck cock like a lamprey on speed but you SUCK HARDER AT ACTING." -
The dialogue needs work - even if the actors didn't seem like they were forcing their lines out like a watermelon through an asshole, it still skirts over camp and into the pool of crappy. Sorbo is the most at ease and sells it; everyone else, not so much.I also agree that it should be roughed up a bit in all areas. And pretty much everything else constructive said here, which sort of shows TB is all of a mind when it comes to these things. Unfortunately it looks far enough along that I doubt any of these suggestions could be used, but honestly - keep Sorbo, ditch/give acting lessons to the chicks, and listen to DocP because he knows his shit.
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It's kind of stupid to put dailies online. Better cutting, ADR, grading, inserts, in fact, any number of things can fix a lot of the problems those clips obviously have. Also, stuff is shot on HD/digital cinema all the time and looks way better than that. In fact, two of the films nominated for "Best Cinematography" were shot on digital ("Benjamin Button" and "Slumdog"). The television lighting and boring production design is what kills it.
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Nice, Doc.
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about Sword and the Sorcerer. If this turns out to be just a long episode of Hercules, I'll be sorely disappointed. Enough with wussy fantasy.
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If it is..then I'll check it out...otherwise it kinda plays like a soap opera...porno.
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They should have just taken all the outtakes from that scene and packages it as a sequel. I would have bought both the fullscreen and widescreen editions.
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That was awesome! Sorbo, as usual, appears to do a fantastic job with a cheesy script, but every one of those ladies is some serious need of acting lessons, especially Blondie. She's cute though, so it's kinda charming in a b-movie way. The punch sound effect was way too loud and cartoonish in the first clip. Other than that, I think it works. Maybe use different shots with Blondie not in them so much. She's nice to look at, but she speaks her lines with all the conviction of a porn star. All in all, however, this looks to be a fitting sequel. I will definitely pay to go see this.
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Testing
1...2... -
Oct 27, 2009 3:11:57 PM CDT
I'd like to use my man-sword on some female sorceresses!
by mrmysteryguest
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The trick that used to work for fantasy films was grabbing unknown british stage actors who have some ability with archaic language and dialog (Shakespeare and Voltaire, for instance) and letting them have at it. Krull is a good example of this theory in action - an amazingly well-cast flick. Nowadays the actors have to have a certain "look," which means they're generally LA bobbleheads who can't act, as is obvious from the clips above. Somewhere in England right now is the next Helen Mirren, just waiting to knock it out of the park in a low-budget fantasy flick, but modern films only seem to want people who look like they belong on "The Hills." Sorbo, you're excused from the "bobbleheads" characterization - I actually think you've got some legit acting chops.
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This is Albert Pyun and just wanted to let all the talkbackers know how much we appreciate the comments good, bad and ugly (mostly!). Wow, we have a long way to go and jeez, I hope we can get within a universe of your expectations (low as you've set them for one of my films). Believe me, as I shape the final cut and look, your comments will be burning in my ears. Thanks for taking the time as I know everyone has many other more important things to do (seemingly, porn has a lofty place amongst talkbackers). I think we have some if not most of the critical elements (gratuitous nudity, excessive violence, abundance of cheese). There's another clip up and might have another later today with some action and vampire action. I whimper and lie curled in a fetal position in anticipation of more TALKBACK!
Albert Pyun -
The feedback and detailed notes were very good. Certainly gives me a different and much needed perspective. Thanks, again.
Albert -
Glad to have helped!
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You've been Pyuned!
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Usually my films are just kicked out the door to an unsuspecting public and this is an opportunity to get some idea of where the material fails so there's a reasonable chance to correct and improve. Post is so insular that this process, albeit unorthodox, is really helpful. All the comments help.
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http://www.vimeo.com/7296598
http://www.vimeo.com/7292760
See if these get any better. Because we're not finished its hard with this sort of film to show much that makes sense. You'll notice the green screen at the top of the stone channel. -
If it is you, I hope you noticed that a lot of us mentioned how much we love the original. I hope that "burns" as much in your ears as the other comments. You really had women that worked in a fantasy context back in 1982, with Kathleen Beller (WOW!) being the highlight.
We all want this to be the same kind of awesome that the Sword & The Sorcerer was.
While most of us fans are overjoyed that you finally went back to Talon's world, we're just as fearful of seeing another flat and uninspired fantasy flick, the kind which has flooded the genre over the past several years. What we need is another dose of the earnest, cheesy, exciting and, above all, loveable antics of the original film--the very things that have kept The Sword and The Sorceror so fondly remembered.
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I totally get it and understand the mandate and responsibility. Hopefully future clips will show this...hopefully.
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Scene #2 takes place 38 minutes into the film, does that mean principal photography has wrapped? If so, doesn't that make this TB somewhat Moot?
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or straight to DVD production? Hopefully the former, if this is anything like the original it would be best, first viewed on the big screen.
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Right now, the distribution offer we have involves a platform theatrical in North America. We are testing 2D to 3D conversion for that, mainly to see how bare breasts render in 3D (kidding...sort of). We are still shooting areas of the film particularly any involving visual effects. We are doing some added shooting to add a few new characters and sub plots.
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This TB has given me an idea where we need to shore up the film. And its never too late to make the film better. I have final cut on this so I really want it to be as good as possible with the time and resources I have.
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Seem a little better (to me). But for some reason I really, really can't stand the clean fantasy look. Sure the Vamp chicks can be cleanish but the others should dirty up a bit.
A bitchin sequel sticking to what worked with the original would be a great time (even if I'd have to take my wife kicking and screaming). Add dirt, cheese, action, magic, boobs and blood and you are good to go. -
Please tell us you are shooting for an R rating on this film, with gore, nudity, language e.t.c. Also, what is the projected release date.Thank you for taking the time visit this TB and express an interest in what the fans have to say. Alot of posts may not be serious (except about the nudity, of course) but the majority seem to be looking forward to this. Thank You.
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Yes, we aim for the treasured "R". And I will personally add oil and dirt to every boob we shoot. I can promise at least that much. Regarding the clean imagery, we'll that's intentional although these clips have been a little brightened and normalized so they can be seen on most screens. Because we can't create specific clips for bad widths and screen rez, we had to kind of milk toast the levels and it brings out the worst of HD. On a big screen and in its native settings, the footage looks great. But I will definitely keep the comments in mind when we do the final grading.
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Will we get to see Bull from Night Court in this? or CGI Robert Tessier? And if 'no' to either-WHY?! Bull Shannon in a funky Roman get-up. Comedy GOLD right there. And Matt Houston-c'mon you gotta like that.
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this looks like a Western to me - especially with all the Yankee accents - I kept waiting for a guy with a sombrero to stumble out of the bar...
I really don't see how you can fix something like that, at this point - you need to reshoot - considering the caliber of acting talent that has been brought in for these two scenes, that may not be such a bad idea... -
obviously way too late to recast - but at least REDUB!
there's a wealth of voice talent out there WHO CAN DO ACCENTS - because the accents are the kind of thing that hurt the suspension of disbelief - they take you out of the film and you start to notice other things you would have missed, if you were still immersed in the fantasy world, instead of on the outside looking in...
-and it will happen again and again all the way through the movie if it is your LEAD speaking unconvincingly -
Glad to see you popping up here. My main concern is the movie looking small. A lot of modern fantasy movies look like they shot them on 3 acres of land somewhere in the woods. Scenes meant to be miles apart you can recognize the same hill in the background just from another angle. Don't make everything look the same if they are in a different place, topography and plant life should be different even slightly.
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That's awesome.
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My only suggestion would be...A Painted Poster! Yes, paint! Oils! Acrylics! Bob Peak-style airbrush! I love the poster for "The Sword and The Sorcerer."Hell man, I'll paint it! (scale rates..heh.)
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Albert Pyun, if you're still checking in on this tb...
Firstly my personal apologies. Back in the day of VHS tapes in big boxes I rented SWORD & THE SORCERER and made an illegal tape-to-tape copy (which became a treasured possession). However I did buy the movie on DVD (and will do so again if it comes out on Blu) so I hope you can forgive me.
Sorry to say the scenes in this new version look extremely 'flat' at this stage. What I think we all loved about the original was the passion. Every male actor looked like he'd just eaten a bloody steak and knocked back two tequilas, and every female actor been on a diet of aphrodisiacs. From the leads down to the lowliest extras everyone in the movie looked 100% 'up for it' and having a great time with the part they've been given. Don't know what sort of set you were running back then but it worked!
That's my advice (if you've additional shooting or dubbing left to do) - bring out the actors passion. Don't let anyone in front of the camera until they've got a fire in their belly and a glint in their eye.
ps. KNIGHTS was a fucking fantastic film too. Don't know if many tb'ers have seen it but it makes a brilliant futuristic companion movie to SWORD. -
I have had no training nor even taken a film class, so I may very well not know what I'm talking about, but I thought the amount of shot changes between what was happening was excessive. You know, showing someone's face, then switching to something else a moment later, and doing this repeatedly. Or maybe it's fine and I'm out of whack.
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I meant the 2nd scene with the vampires, sorry for not indicating earlier.
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Another vote for that!
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