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UPDATED!!! CONTEST CLOSED!!! Capone has 10 copies of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: THE PLAN to give away. Any takers?!
Wow. Okay, wow! In the two hours since I put up this contest, I've gotten more than 200 entries, so I'm shutting it down. Sorry late-comers, but I do not have time to go through any more entries in a timely fashion. Great answers to my question, by the way. The 10 winners will here from me very soon. --Capone
Hey everyone. Capone in Chicago here, venturing once again into the spooky realm of Hercules lair of all things Coaxial. And like anyone daring to enter his realm, you have to bring gifts to appease his holiness. And I have just such gifts.
I don't have to tell BATTLESTAR GALACTICA fans that what may be the final chapter of this particular BSG universe, THE PLAN, is about to street on October 27 as an exclusive uncut and unrated DVD and Blu-ray release. You've seen the clips and trailers, and I'm intrigued about as much as I can be about seeing key events in the BSG timeline through Cylon eyes.
I've got 10 copies of THE PLAN DVD just burning a hole on my desk ready to give away to our readers. Here's what you have to do to win. Send me an email at capone@aintitcoolmail.com with the subject line "BSG: THE PLAN Contest". In the body of the email, I need your full name, mailing address, and the answer to the following question: What mystery from the BSG universe do you hope to see solved during the THE PLAN movie? I actually asked this same question when I gave away copies of CAPRICA a while back, but the question still seems appropriate even if the answers will likely be very different.
I only need one example. Keep your answers to 75 words or less. I'll look them over during the next couple of days, and contact the winners directly. Now, the winners' prizes won't be mailed until a little after October 27, so if you absolutely have to have your copy on the day it comes out, don't enter this contest. But if you can wait a bit, we'll try and hook you up. The 10 winners will get an email from me alerting you of your win, but I will not post the list on the site. Good luck, everyone.
-- Capone
capone@aintitcoolmail.com
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Awesome Capone.
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maybe people would be like "You know what? Thanks, but no thanks."
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Cant wait to see this.
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I'll check it out this week.
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Kinda hard to answer the question when we've already seen the movie
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after that horrible finale? I threw up in my mouth a little bit just thinking about how I watched all that only to be shat on in the end.
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I think of it as a magnificent failure. It came close to greatness.
The latter half of the show and its finale, were not so bad that they could warp the space time continuum and retroactively make the early parts shit. You know, the way the Matrix sequels did to the original movie. -
The Plan is a miserable final "episode" for BSG. It's interesting to see how certain things were connected, but the new scenes only feature the Cylons (plus one new scene with Adama); everything else was reused footage. Not a great story, not a great ending, and not a great final story (even compared to Daybreak).
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I'm a big BSG fan, and thought this was bad in every way. It continued going down the road of Cylon slapstick sarcasm by Mr. Quantum Leap (great actor, and in this context when limited to short screen time I think is great). This movie serves nothing more than screaming "no seriously, all our Season 3.5 and 4 decisions tie in nicely with the first seasons." Ok, ok, Ron...we get it. I still don't like the direction they went with the Cylons in Season 3, but I accepted it. However, this kind of re-opens old wounds - as did the investment of hours building up Starbuck just to leave it up in the air (which was a fine choice...but you shouldn't have invested all the personal time to the contrary!)
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It's not terrible, but overall it felt pointless. The Pegasus movie was a million times better.
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I think the series was AMAZING in so many ways, and I loved that they DARED to move it from a political allegory into something more mystical - BUT I agree with many here who felt that the final series didn't QUITE deliver. What the heck was 'the plan'? That being said, there was truly wonderful stuff, and some of the episodes - the Pegasus thing, the escape from New Caprica, the reveal of the final five - were smart and thrilling and strangely disturbing. Bravo! Now, move on...
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despite the breasts... failed to look like anything more then just the trim off of all the seasons edited together.
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I plan to watch this series in it's entirety. Do I start at the beginning of season one? Wasn't there a movie or two before the series got rolling? And where does Caprica and The Plan fit in? What about Razor? So confused.
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gave up on it, dont waste your time
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hope it helps.
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The final episode was fucking brilliant you fucking turds. Get over it if you didn't like it.
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The Final Five, and final season ruined a compleatly awesome show.Die you apoligist douche.
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"yea I've seen it... it sucked"
Half the people on this site that go out of their way to give shitty reviews have never even watched what they are reviewing, and in this case I smell more than one pile of steaming bullshit.
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The finale was fine. How else did you think it would end? They were going to fight for all eternity? So it wasn't 6 and Boomer making out. Get over it. That being said, is it really necessary to have this? I think things ended they way they should. I would just leave it alone.
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Watch season 1-3, then watch Razor, Then watch season 4 and end with The Plan...
Caprica is stand-alone, and will be its own series, but it plays much better after you've seen the whole of BSG
Ignore the haters... Great, phenomenal show... Not sure what they were expecting from a series remaking Mormon Star Wars, but for me it delivered constantly and consistently on unprecedented levels. -
Ron, you're an asshole for delivering such a shitty movie for us BSG fans
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Want to know how you can seperate the torrenting pirates from the rest of the talkbackers?
The torrenting pirates often get to see things ahead of time. The Plan has been available from the torrent feeds for over a week go. Feel free to take your foot out of your mouth, consider the possibility you're only reflecting your own ignorance when you decide to insult the forum. -
I saw and it really sucked!!!!
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Only if you're a pock-faced teenage douche with no sense of reality, maturity, or good taste, did you hate the way BSG ended.
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I agree with most everyone... Pretty lacking on the whole. Some moments of greatness: the attack on the colonies was beautiful, as are Grace Park, Tricia Helfer and topless bartenders. Dean Stockwell is always a hoot. Interesting perspective from Anders and Simon finally got some decent coverage.
But it was a ret-con, and seemed unnecessary. Added too little to the mythos and had too much stock footage to justify the price. -
BSG: The Plan has been available on Usenet and P2P since last week. Trust me, everyone here saying they've seen it has, in fact, seen it. 3D-Man, melchior42's list is almost completely accurate. You do need to watch the original mini-series first though, prior to season 1. The mini-series is, IIRC, packaged with the season 1 discs, so you don't have to worry about finding it separately. There were also three minisodes/webisodes series that aired during the breaks between seasons. They're included as extras on the season disc sets. Make sure you watch them too. This wikipedia article includes everything in chronological order. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Battlestar_Galactica_(reimagined_series)_episodes Just watch everything in the order listed in the Contents table. fuck.wit, you're so true to your name. Ron Moore only served as the executive producer on this. The Plan is the brainchild of Jane Espenson. Billyeveryteen, I can't believe I'm standing up for HoboChode, but I'm sure he'll be pleased to die for liking the resolution on BSG as soon you learn how to spell "apologist," and "completely." As far as my opinion on The Plan goes...I liked it. It doesn't really add anything to the series, in fact, it's almost entirely superfluous. And you can make a pretty good case for calling it a clip show, as most of the footage is archival clips from the first two seasons of the show. However, there are a few interesting moments in the film, so it's not a complete waste. As far as the entire BSG series goes, I am very satisfied with the series and think it's one of the best television series in the history of television. Definitely top twenty, probably top ten. Maybe even top five, though there's some incredible competition for that ranking.
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Actually, the only true ret-con is Anders yelling for someone to go back and take out the Doc at his Resistance camp in the scene where he rescues Starbuck from The Farm. Retcons are specifically when they change something in continuity. It's "Retroactive Continuity." Nothing in The Plan was previously shown as happening in a different way. It's all behind-the-scenes, essentially, except for the one example I list above.
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nothing else.
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Firefly, that worthless pile of trash. If this was a Firefly DVD movie you fuckers would be salivating over it.
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I was going to watch it today during dinner
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So you're saying the only two options for the finale were either 1) they keep fighting for all eternity or 2) God did it so let's give up all our technology and breed with the natives and, wait, did Starbuck just disappear?
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SyFy would rather show Ghost Hunters for the 100th time.
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the only things I'd have changed was given the Chief more of a resolution and included Seelix so we could see her get her dirty-mutineering ass shot to shit by the Cylons. Other than that it was great. The only bad episode in 4.5 was Deadlocked, and every season of BSG at at least one stinker. Still, its got to make the Top5 TV programmes of all time.
As for The Plan, if its EVER released in the UK (no date as of yet) then I'll buy it, otherwise I'm not to bothered, the series is over for me already. Would be nice to get to see a Simon (most under-used Cylon) story though. -
Arthur C. Clarke's third law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Or, perhaps, divinity. The show doesn't definitely establish whether it's "God" or not. It's simply a convenient term to use. In fact, one of the final lines of the series is Phantom Baltar saying to Phantom Six that "You know he doesn't like that name." "That" name being "God." Ron Moore says in his podcast for the finale that he deliberately refrains from explaining "God's" nature as it's better to let the fans argue over it and interpret it themselves. There's enough ambiguity to decide either way. Is it God? Are they representative of some technologically advanced culture? Either answer works, depending on how you want to view it. My theory prior to the finale was the latter, and specifically that they were representatives from one of the earlier human or cylon societies (from Kobol, Earth, or perhaps earlier) that managed to not destroy themselves, and that the RTF would join with them in the finale. However, the way that RDM decided to go is similar, in spirit, and perhaps even better, due to the use of the literary and philosophical concept of the "noble savage" typified in Apollo's speech to his father towards the end of the finale. In short: yes, it was a binary choice in ending the series. Will the survivors find peace, or won't they? Not finding peace may as well not be an ending at all. And as far as finding peace goes, I think RDM chose to end it in as artful a fashion as is possible.
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If that's an idle musing, and not a reference to earlier comments, yes, Simon/Rick Worthy gets quite a bit of screen time in new footage (not archival clips) in The Plan. It's a fairly conventional story though, in the "robots can learn to love" vein (see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatIsThisThingYouCallLove ), but it's still pretty good, and establishes that yes, Rick Worthy can actually act.
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They always start out with a "2 days ago" thing, and then go through stuff. But then again, people here get confused by Venture Bros cartoons.
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Good stuff, basically since The Farm in s2 Simon became Official Background Cylon, reduced to nodding along in ensemble scenes and occasionally saying stuff like "We agree". I really wish they'd have done more with his character, cnsidering Rick Worthy plays that controlled menace/sinister bedside manner thing so well.
From what I gather, it seems we don't get any background on the Final 5 (voyage from Earth, getting gassed by Cavil) in The Plan. Which is disappointing. -
Yes, I was pretty disappointed with that myself. I was hoping we'd get to see the Five arrive near the colonies in time to witness the tail end of the war, and get the Cylons to negotiate the truce. Unfortunately, it looks like that will have to wait for either _another_ stand alone film-length episode, or Caprica will have to cover 20-odd years of time, long enough for Adama to grow up and join the war.
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I'm very disappointed with that.
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After they decided to leave the destroyed Caprica. We never got back to that story at all.
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but i thought this was way too boring , i just wasn't feeling it with The Plan just my say on it, judge for urself!
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i saw this over the weekend, it was fantastic! it answered a ton of those little questions about the series that we all had. dean stockwell is a beast here too, he was the highlight of the movie. i loved it!
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Is always fun to listen to because it sounds like Adama commentating on stuff.
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That's an interesting theory about "God", but it doesn't change much IMO. Whether an actual God or a sufficiently advanced technological race it doesn't change my annoyance at the fact that a bunch of seemingly major plot mysteries were just suddenly explained away by the introduction of this magical or technologically advanced thing.And the rest of the ending seemed more artsy than artful to me. It provided the opportunity for a lot of nice looking shots of people standing outside overlooking picturesque vistas, but I didn't for a second by that everyone of the humans would unanimously agree to shun all their technology and, in many cases, the presence of their fellow humans (including their previously close friends or relatives). It just seemed a clumsy way to try and justify the final shot of that National Geographic cover and the, IMO, ridiculous revelation that it was our earth all along.
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...in the plaza before they set off the nukes? I'm actually starting to forget bits and pieces of the show.
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Are there majorities of plot points that everyone agrees were bad? Or does everyone have a different opinion on what was bad? My first and main problem was the meaning behind the tune in Starbuck's head and what it turned out to be. Oh ya, I can hear Mr. Moore say, did we forget to mention (through the entire series) that FTL works like a touchtone phone? Well it does! Ta-da!
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I just thought it was kinda shitty only Starbuck could tap in the song coordinates and not the other final five people.
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...with Mindf*** Caprica and Mindhead What'shisface and THEN disappeared! At least that would have made some sense.
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"I didn't for a second by that everyone of the humans would unanimously agree to shun all their technology" Yea I mean... why would anyone shun a technology that had just wiped out BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of people and led to 4 miserable years of suffering and having to eat, live and breath based on nothing but THAT technology. I think you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid not to want to give it up. Especially considering you'd be the moron giving cavemen MLA guns and nuclear weapons. I mean, come on... if this is the thing that you are getting hung up on? You have no fucking sense at all. Next you will be telling me that given a choice, junkies would prefer to stay addicted to crack - you know, because it has done so much for them that deep inside they know they are better off with their addiction.
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would have liked to have seen a longer Viper battle. The final 5 got mostly sidelined. The Boomer flashback (after she dies) is mostly useless and kills the pace of the episode at that point. No return of Seelix or Kelly. Very little Leoben (apparently due to scheduling). It would have been nice to have another Ellen/Cavil confrontation. If they had dropped some hints in the last few episodes that the fleet were running low on resources and the ships were ALL on their last legs it would have made the whole "they all abandon their technology" plot a little easier to swallow.
These are just minor points though, I mostly found the finale completely satisfying. All the characters got their moments to shine and I loved the "you know IT doesn't like that name" line, seemed very fitting.
To anyone who disputes the fact that it all takes place in our past, I would ask did you really think it would be any different? I'd predicted from around season 2 that would be the case, its just alot more interesting that way. -
in real life "technology" isn't one all-encompassing term the way it was presented in the finale. It's one thing to want to give up the technology that resulted in the deaths of so many. It's another to want to give up that technology and then also give up the technology that allows you to better heal yourself when you're sick or that helps you keep yourself warm when the temperature drops or that makes it easier to grow food to feed yourself or that allows you to entertain yourself when you're bored or that allows you to travel between point A and point B at a faster pace... Where do you draw the line?"Finally I can relax and watch all those movies I've been meaning to see>""Sorry. We had to fly those into the sun.""Ah, well. There's a ton of books I haven't gott-""Sorry. No. Those are gone.""Well, maybe I'll just take this time to grab my bike and tour the planet. It's a beautiful place and I'm sure I can have a ton of adventures as I pedal ar-""Look, you're just not getting this. It's all gone."
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They show the scene from the mini, end with her saying "You're late" or whatever, then continue the scene using new footage. Amazingly, Tricia looks exactly the same. :)
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For those of you still hoping for a shot at the BSG DVD, there's another contest going on elsewhere that has a deadline of tonight for you to get your entries in:
http://www.infamouskidd.com/btk/Blog/Entries/2009/10/20____Mock_The_Kidd_For_Battlestar_Galactica_DVDs__.html -
Oct 26, 2009 5:21:24 PM CDT
"Let's fly all our hospitals into the sun" is crazy stupid...
by billyeveryteen
Sudden Cylons Tigh, Chief and Anders is crazy stupid, and smells of bankrupt ideas.My take for a finale is Cylon comeuppance. Fleet reaches Earth, finds a shitload of Battlestars who obliterates pursuing Cylons.
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I wonder what happened to all of those? Did they hide them? Did any of our archeologists find them?
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Apparently they had scenes of burning the raptors and more completely getting rid of stuff but they cut them. What I took away was that the people divided up whatever stuff they brought down from the ships and they'll use what they have for a while but in a generation it'll be broken up and repurposed and eventually all gone, except for ideas.
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land on an "Earth". I wanted to see that in the final, but noooo!
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Clap.....Clap.....ClapClapClap
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Torrent-ed it...was good...
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Really? Will you be there for them or will they be here for you? What a life affirming contest!
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First off, Starbucks incident at the Farm. What did they do to her? Nothing at all? come on, that seemed to be the perfect set up to go somewhere...you mean to tell me that after all this, Simon just operated on her, nothing more, nothing less?
How about Daniel? I figured we would have gotten to meet him at some point, but we didn't.
What about in the Mini, the device that Head Six showed Baltar? What was it?
I mean, come on, I hate to admit it, but this wasn't that grat (The Plan)...
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Frakkin' HILARIOUS!!!to top it off, his daughter says "didnt you dress up like that like 5 years ago? Don't you think it's time to move on?"
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that can survive re-entry into a planet's atmosphere?
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Oct 26, 2009 10:06:45 PM CDT
I like to think that Anders took the fleet out in space
by lockesbrokenleg
somewhere, and it's still out there. That way, they can always bring it back if the Cylons return.
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Wha?! You burn up the ship by having it flown directly into the frakking Sun.
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I thought the posts above about burning ships were referring to the ships that were still left on the planet (i.e. the raptor that Adama was flying around). I couldn't remember how those were supposedly disposed of.
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What happened. Two great weeks. Then this crap.
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Ah, I see. Well, they didn't exactly show/tell us how they intended to dispose of the smaller ships (Raptors, Vipers, etc.). I just assumed they would be dismantled and destroyed when they had completed their transfer of people and supplies. However, it was obviously far too early for that to have happened when Adama was flying Roslin to her final resting place.
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BLAM! TAKE THAT SHIP!!!
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Well, first, most of the ships in the colonial fleet are made for controlled reentry. We've only seen two instances of uncontrolled reentry, those being the Adama Maneuver (atmo-jump from Exodus Pt. 2), and the Raptor crash in Kobol's Last Gleaming (season one finale). And I'm not sure if that was completely uncontrolled. It's been a while since I watched it last, but if I recall, the cockpit windshield was busted. If it had been a completely uncontrolled reentry, super-heated air would have entered the Raptor, cooked everything inside, and probably caused the Raptor to explode, a la the Shuttle Columbia. Second, aerodynamic vehicles meant for uncontrolled reentry, such as the Space Shuttle, only attain a hull temperature of around 1500°C during reentry. The temperature of our Sun's corona is several MILLION degrees Kelvin. And in case you didn't know it, one degree in Celsius equals one degree in Kelvin, it's just 0°C is 273.15°K (Kelvin starts at absolute 0, whereas Celsius starts at the freezing point of water). So, yeah, there's a BIG difference between 1500° and 5,000,000°. Even if the ships could somehow make it through the visible surface of the sun, the photosphere, has a temperature of 5780°K. Still nearly four times the heat experienced during uncontrolled reentry.
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Even if the ships could somehow make it through _TO_ the visible surface of the sun...
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I would have dropped them in a volcano, or over one of the deep sea trenches on the planet. Of course, that's assuming I desired hiding my existence from future generations. If not, well, 150,000 years passed between the arrival of the RTF and the present day, and I'm pretty certain there isn't much of a Raptor that could survive that long. There's also been at least one ice age since then that could have destroyed all remaining evidence. Which kind of gets me on a tangent...at 150,000 years ago, many things would have been different then. For one, the megafauna would still be around. And I imagine they probably enjoyed hunting on African savanna. Two, the Bering Land Bridge should have been extant at that time. Three, and this one is really interesting to me, it's theorized that humanity nearly went extinct about 70,000 years ago. Present day genetic surveys show much less genetic diversity than is found in other species alive today. It's theorized that about 70,000 years ago, a supervolcano in Indonesia exploded sending the planet into an even deeper ice age than it was already in (wiki Toba catastrophe theory). It's estimated that humanity was reduced to less than 10,000 breeding pairs. Possibly as low as 1,000 pairs. Within about 10,000 years of that event though, humanity left Africa and spread to every other continent except Antarctica.
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...to where her Viper originally came from. It would have been cool to have Anders go back with her.
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bugs me. It just doesn't make sense.
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...I agree that they didn't explain the decision to permanently settle on Earth very well, but it's very easy to create very plausible fanon explanations for this. They (Apollo, et al.) could have sold the idea to settle on Earth and abandon nearly all technology quite easily. First, and this is the biggest reason, in four years of traveling across the galaxy, they came across five habitable planets. Two of them were radioactive wastelands already used up by earlier civilizations. Two were primordial hellholes with shitty climates and poor vegetation and soil. And the last one was a verdant paradise teeming with a diverse set of plant and animal life. Tough choice there, right? Particularly after having been stuck on board ships for four years (three years since the old biodome ship was destroyed at New Caprica). The choice to settle at that point would have been an easy one. Second, once the choice is made to stay, dumping all of their technology would have been necessary to cloak their existence from any cylons who happened to pass by. Even had the cylons entered orbit to take a look, there's very little chance they would have been able to spot 40K humans hiding on the surface, particularly with a small native and primitive population already extant on the surface. Had Cavil been present in a basestar control room to learn of the existence of primitives on the surface, his reaction would have been one of complete and utter disgust, followed by a desire to get as far away as possible so they would stop reminding him of his own flesh-bound existence. Furthermore, at this point, the Galactica was toast. Done. Completely incapable of defending the fleet, should even a single basestar show up. The fleet was already wary of trusting the rebel cylons to protect them with their damaged basestar while the Galactica was still there, and they would have been even less happy to have nothing but one cylon basestar to protect them from other basestars. At that point, having the Galactica there was nothing more than holding up a big sign saying, "Here we are! We have next to no defensive capability, come and get us!" Galactica, unable to jump, and unable to fight, is nothing more than a big target with a bulls-eye painted on it. More of a liability than an asset. Sure, many people would probably start to miss the air conditioning and a semi-stocked sickbay. Most of them probably would have been happy to trade that for a verdant paradise (with the possible problem of being eaten by megafauna), and being completely safe from, and invisible to, cylon toasters, raiders, and nukes.
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On the ret-con front... It did seem to be that they were trying to squeeze the final five mythology into the earlier sequence of events. Even granting 'god did it' the sequence of events leading to them all being present in the fleet seems unlikely. But yes, they didn't alter the continuity with the exception of the point you mentioned. (I think having Simon in the Fleet & in Anders' camp might have come close to qualifying, but they never mentioned it one way or the other in the series)
What I'm mistaking for ret-con I think is more a unfulfilled promises... You have 12 cylon models all strategically planted within the surviving fleet following a holocaust... They have a PLAN!
They're up to something... Does it involve creating a hybrid race of human/cylon? Does their plan involve slowly testing the limits of human endurance? Does their plan somehow all tie into their religious views? Does the cylon god have a physical manifestation? What is the purpose of keeping the fleet alive with the sleepers present? And how is Starbuck tied into the cylon plan? All these beautiful setups were given, but in the end...
There wasn't a plan for the fleet, it was all just supernatural coincidence. The cylon plan was always just 'everything blows up a week ago'... They were just playing everything by ear, and occasionally getting to indulge some bloodshed. Which seems like ret-con to the promises each episode of the first 3 seasons promised in the tagline. In the end, I respect the story told, and I will always love BSG, but I think it could have been more. But it wasn't my story to tell. It was Moore's story, and I think all things considered it was a great one. -
There was no more Cavil at that point. He's dead. That's what the whole Hera thing was about. No more ressurection. Of course, it's science fiction, so I'm sure they could find ways to bring him back etc & I'd look silly, but as things stand, he's really, really, very dead.
Giving up their technology does make sense in some ways, but I doubt they would give up stuff like Anti-biotics. It just isn't very plausible.
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Is that that took what was a threateniong & scary enemy (see early episodes like 33) & over time, made them about as threatening as a wet fart.
The plan goes one step further & makes them look like incapable idiots. -
Oct 26, 2009 11:56:01 PM CDT
BSG had a terrible finale, Mitochondrial Eve?
by stereotypical evil archer
Just plain weak, especially from a writer's point of view. Just ending it by basically declaring "God did it" was a huge insult.Free will and the mistakes that come with it was an underlying theme of the show; a characters actions had reactions and consequences; but if you just say "God did it" then you've betrayed everything you've created. Notice I said "You've created" not God created. It's far better to create or destroy than to sit back and say it was God's fault. That's like waking up and saying, "Oh, it was all just a dream." Weakest writing ever from a show that relied upon good writing.The viewers of the series deserve a high quality, expansive,action filled explanation of an ending, which has not yet been delivered, and clearly never written.
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Oct 26, 2009 11:57:17 PM CDT
The ending of BSG made the last 3 seasons of the X-files look li
by stereotypical evil archer
And I wasn't too keen on those last three seasons.
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The ending of BSG made the last 3 seasons of the X-files look like high art.
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I don't mean specifically the "original" Cavil. I'm not really sure who that even is. I simply mean "a" Cavil. It doesn't have to be the one that blew his brains out in the CIC. As far as the rest of your comments go, they didn't agree to give up everything instantaneously. After four years, I'm sure the fleet had mostly run out of antibiotics anyway. At that point, Doctors Cottle, Gerard (John Hodgman's neurosurgeon), and Robert (Bruce Davison's MD from The Woman King), and any other remaining Docs in the fleet were probably down to prescribing home remedies and grinding leaves, roots, and tree bark to make basic medicines. What they hadn't run out of probably wasn't going to last very long anyway. And it's not like they had a university going to train up replacement Doctors, Neurosurgeons, and Engineers. Everything was being used up. Everything was breaking. There was no "giving it all up, and going cold-turkey" it was almost all gone already anyway.
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No, no, no, a thousand times NO. Daybreak was NOT a deus ex machina. The only "God" did was bring Starbuck back. Other than that, everything else was simply inspiration. The major players, Starbuck, Baltar, and Caprica-Six had all been guided by "God's" influence through the various phantoms (Starbuck's piano-playing father, and the phantom Six and Blatar), but everything they did was their own choice. The phantoms weren't telling Baltar what to say to defuse the situation and bring about the momentary peace that was used to save Hera. He did it on his own. He did it due to years of guidance and molding by the phantoms, but he did it on his own.
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With Baltar and Six walking off, even though they weren't really there. (They're in head characters) and the music playing saying that there was something bigger going on all over again.
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pretty pointless exercise, all in all...
it was kinda like when somebody says something to you and you fail to answer with a witty retort immediately - only coming up with a decent comeback many hours later...
so they FINALLY figured out how to plug up some of their plot holes - AFTER the entire series has wrapped up
pathetic -
No plot holes were tied up in The Plan. This is simply behind-the-scenes type footage, similar to "The Other 48 Days." If you think you have identified a plot hole, please elaborate, and I'll explain why you're wrong.
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From your misconception, I think it's pretty obvious that you are neither a musician, nor do you know anything whatsoever about music. The numbers typed in by Starbuck did not coincide with tones emitted by the panel, like you can replicate simple songs with the tones on a phone keypad. The numbers she typed in were representative of the intervals between the notes in the melody of the song written in C# (the musical key). View this jpg for an illustration: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/theme-coordinates.jpg They're not tones on a key pad, they're intervals in the scale/key in which the melody is written. If you'd like a more verbose explanation, you should read Bear McCreary's blog entry on Daybreak here: http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1760#more-1760 Scroll down to the section of the post labeled "Generating Kara’s Coordinates". You can probably skip down to the paragraph beginning with this sentence, "This approach had several advantages."
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Oct 27, 2009 12:49:59 AM CDT
Rhuragh, actions guided by divine intervention.
by stereotypical evil archer
Therefore, truly no free will, just the illusion of such. If God/gods interact then free will is but the will of God.Loved the series until the last hour, hopefully THE PLAN can bring some of that back. It's the "believing" in God that makes the Cylons compelling, ending it with GOd interfering weakens the Cylons "belief" into fact, and therefore uninteresting and pointless drama, hence that last hour of the series. Starbuck disappearing, the Cylons wandering into space, and the phantonm Baltar and Six existing independent of the narritive, is lazy writing. God in the Machine is interesting... God within and without is pointless. A God with an origin and limits mirrors the real drama us humans face everyday...that is the root of all stories and Moore ignored that tradition in the end. It was weak, lazy writing that had no respect for the series and it's viewer. Those who accept it, just want to move on to the next thing. Those who dislike the ending hold the series in their heart. Moore ultimately wanted to stop the heart from beating, so we get "God must've did it and it's to blame."
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Oct 27, 2009 12:50:53 AM CDT
Weak writing from once great writers. That's the end of BSG.
by stereotypical evil archer
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"God" didn't force them to do anything. It could have been Noam Chomsky whispering in their ear. THEY were the ones who took action. "God" didn't force them to change their attitudes, he simply showed them another path.
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I didn't just mean whatever anti-biotics etc they had lying around. I meant the general concept of abandoning all technology/advanced knowledge. Anti-biotics was just an example.
Yeah, they were probably all out of modern meds, but they'd just landed on a planet where they could make them & which in real history, didn't discover that stuff until relatively recently.
For example-let's say I'm Doc Cottle. What's the first thing I'm gonna do? Find stuff to make anti-biotics. Well, actually I'd probably look for something to smoke first:-). But you get my point. Are we meant to believe that Doctors would abandon their knowledge & let people die? That the entire cast had this massive struggle, then just died of syphillis (because they can't stop shagging each other)?
That used to kill people. Chicken pox could kill people not that long ago. I thought abandoning tech was a good idea (although a bit rushed, like "Nope. No cities"..."Oh ok.")..but the knowledge would still be there.
Would an educated guy from an advanced culture, live in a hut & spend two hours using flint to make a fire, so he can keep his pox ridden kids warm while they die a slow & painful death? I doubt it.
Lee Adama also contradicts that himself. He has the big idea to abandon the technology, then says how they can pass on language etc to the locals. Yeah. They'd teach them how to say "My leg's all green & falling off", but do fuck all to help them?
As for cavil. That's what I meant by it being science fiction & that they could always bring him back. In theory, there could still be a few of him & others floating around out there somewhere, but I think the inference in the show was that he was pretty much desperate & ended up dead & that's the resolution.
IF they hadn't found Earth, but rather kept heading out into space, they could have easily done a movie or something & had them all still around like that. As it is, Cylons vs Battlestar Galactica with no Battlestar, would be pretty shit. Just my opinion, but the way I see it, Cavil's dead & the story's over. -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU3IPlkxsgs
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The fact that there were a bunch of humans of our Earth, who would have survived no matter what, meant that even if every single colonial was killed, it wouldn't have mattered at all as humanity would have survived anyway. In fact they would have been better off, given all those diseases they wouldn't be immune to.
As it was, given that as far as we know about human history, human being really didn't make huge leaps that we can see in advancing science until a few thousand years ago, so that whole abandoning technology thing didn't really work out for about 140,000 years did it? -
Thank you. That was awesome. *swoon* Malcolm Reynolds is back!
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that somehow the human/cylon hybrid child Hera, was the genetic fore-bear to the entire modern day homo-sapiens. So, without the colonials, we'd be .. different, I guess? Wouldn't have that microscopic trace of cylon dna or whatever the fuck they were supposed to be, in our genetic code.
Honestly, they never explained that, did they? Cylons were machines, they kept saying they were machines. But they were organically indistinguishable from humans. Or something. -
If it hadn't been one person, it would have been someone else. Also, it can in theory change over time. For example at the time of the Colonial's arrival, there was already a mitochondrial eve even further back in time.
As it was, since the people of Earth had compatable DNA with the Colonials (what are the odds of that happening?), it actually didn't make any difference who it was, really for all that ended up happening in the end. -
Believe me, I wasn't trying to pass off their justification of bullshit as some sort of actual science. Just saying that, from the writers perspective, we weren't supposed to think it was all irrelevant. Rather, it was all part of some infinitely recurring karmic cycle of creation/destruction.
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sooner I forget, happier I'll be about the whole thing
keep explaining to people how they're wrong - lemme know how that works out for you -
Oct 27, 2009 7:55:05 AM CDT
Rhuragh, divine intervention = divine design = lazy writing
by stereotypical evil archer
Reason, doubt and flawed characters made BSG a very good show. It worked as drama and social commentary. Divine intervention cheapens and disregards all the qualities that made the show enjoyable. The last hour was a stab in the back for the fans expecting an ending; instead the fans got an obtuse omnipotent force that doesn't do justice to the characters. The writers gave up. Phantom Six and Phantom Baltar needed explanation, so did Starbuck, it could've been something simple and the actions of those characters would've been justified throughout the series. Lazy writing and lack of creativity ruined the last hour. Divine influence without a basis in characterization destroyed the reasons why we followed those characters; solving those reasons with unreason was laziness.
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You clearly love the finale, and find it elegant. Sadly, this means you had little invested in the previous seasons when the Cylons were truly villainous and scary, and we solved things with bullets.True fans of "33" got burned.
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Like I explained above the post you made, I wasn't disputing flying the ships into the sun. I thought another poster was referring to burning up the ships that remained on earth.As for dumping technology, you're making the same mistake that Moore did. The term "technology" can refer to anything from a belt buckle to a nuclear warhead. Simply convincing everyone to give up all those things makes no sense. Sure making machines in man's image has been shown to be a bad idea, don't do that again. As for weapons, yeah they killed a lot of people, but they also saved a lot of people and there are sure as hell going to be animals/natives/mentally unstable other humans to protect themselves from (not to mention the rest of the cylons), but I guess maybe they could talk everyone into giving up all their weapons.Space flight? The entire run of the show has shown the benefit of having the freedom to jump on a space ship and get the hell out of town if bad shit starts going down, but maybe everyone is so giddy about finally getting to see some trees that they all check the X next to the 'Fly it into the sun' box.But how do you argue against anything else? Sure the suggestion has been raised that there's only a finite amount of stuff left, but there's definitely still knowledge left in this generation of humans (not to mention books) that could lead the way to manufacturing capabilities and other advancements in a few decades at least. Besides letting their stores run out, the surviving humans would have all had to make the willing decision to forget all of that knowledge. Antibiotics, crop rotation, forging tools from metal, washing your hands to keep from spreading disease...there is an endless list of things each of which if introduced earlier in earth human development could've significantly altered the course of history. Even if you're totally fine with the "God did it" explanation for the rest of the craziness, the actions of the human survivors make no sense.
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Oct 27, 2009 8:40:39 AM CDT
So glad that we have StereotypicalEvilArcher to 'educate' us on
by sauronthepowerful
Yet another proto-intellectual sadly attempting to rationally explain away the possibility of a higher level of divine existance as "lazy writing." So now you speak for writers everywhere. Your supposedly higher understanding of the art of the written word has officially designated YOU as the voive of the worldwide writers community. If you believe that that is the case, then it is interesting that your supposedly superior writing acumen did not make it into the homes of millions of fans worldwide, but instead resides, barely noticeable, festerring in a second-rate fanboy flame forum to be forgotten, along with YOUR infinite grasp of all things scientific and divine. You mask your liberal contempt for the concept of divinity with pretty words that belie a fifth graders comprehension of the nuances of this episode.
True, the Cylons were once a fearful nemesis that became diluted (in some cases comically so) over the course of Seasons 3 and 4. In this respect, Moore did not live up to the full potential set forth by Seasons 1 and 2. I would also agree that Jane Espensen has been highly overhyped by this site.
However, my opinion (for what that's worth), and the opinion of many, many other fans of the show is that the finale was an emotionally powerful and satisfying conclusion to this four year journey.
Attempting to denigrate the beliefs of others with your own purpoted "intellectual superiority" really makes you look like a bigger dumba$s then the people whose beliefs you self-delusionally feel the need to 'educate....' -
This show has fully redeemed itself with the current season and storylines. For the first time in a long time, I care about the characters and there is a sense of palpable dread in many of the scenes. I love this season. Might be the best yet.
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if you hate the finale you see it as "lazy writing"? I liked the finale. A lot. Can't people just accept that this is the story? Argue over the merits of the story, thats fine, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean the writing is lazy.
@Billyeveryteen, it is possible to like both 33 and the finale. And, in 33 Baltar is saved from being exposed as a traitor by surrendering his will to God, so doesn't that directly tie in to the ending as given in the finale? -
Oct 27, 2009 10:14:18 AM CDT
Sauronthepowerful disagrees with me, that's cool.
by stereotypical evil archer
For the record, I love the series. The last hour was insulting; it had some emotion (which I loved, especially Baltar talking about farming) but a cop out is a cop out. Sorry if you're insulted, but many people loved the cynicism in the series only to have it flung away carelessly, almost as a joke. A couple lines of dialogue and some original thought would've saved the ending. It seems it was written more for reaction than for the needs of the narrtive. However, when the characters don't question when they should, the writer gave up; hence the lazy writing. BSG was about hope in the face of cynicism, the hope and the cynicism was abandoned to a God-figure, just to end the show within the alotted timeframe. Oh, and I'm totally buying The Plan today, because I love the series. I even love Rhuragh and I love you, sauronthepowerful.
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Oct 27, 2009 10:22:37 AM CDT
saouronthepowerful, you are welcome; sir, you are welcome.
by stereotypical evil archer
I'm glad I could help you see the light as the particles it really is.
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So fucking bad it actually set off a temporal rift that rippled outwards to an entirely different network (ABC) and is in the process of destroying a completely different reboot attempt (V).
Top that disastrous outcome, X-FILES! -
Harry must be thrilled.
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At least that's what NBC told us; last night, a CSI Miami rerun annihilated, anally raped and castrated a new Leno, 3.1/8 vs. 1.3/4. An Accidentally on Purpose rerun also beat him. I think that's all which needs to be said about NBC as the Jay Leno Error, er, Era continues to make TV history for all the wrong reasons.
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Oct 27, 2009 11:23:03 AM CDT
Too bad Heroes was the lowest-rated big 4 show last night...
by pennsydeux
3.2 rating, 5 share. That's the new standard, and should be considered a disappointment, since CBS took Monday off (all reruns) and they didn't gain any significant ground. Too little, too late.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWB-kd09GXY
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it's possible to love the series and dislike the finale. not only did the write themselves into a corner [starbuck, final five, head6/baltar, cylon plan ...etc] the decision to end it on ancient earth created a whole slew of problems. it meant that they had to destroy all trace of tech so they had to fly galactica into the sun which is silly, plotwise, for reasons many have pointed out .... anyway "The Plan" showed that the cylons didn't have any grand plan ...and love conquers all. nice sfx of destruction though..
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Oct 27, 2009 12:49:15 PM CDT
RE: Anyone remember Bill Hicks skit where Leno kills himself?
by mr. nice gaius
Yep, off of RANT IN E-MINOR. Classic.
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Regardless of what people may think about the decision to abandon technology, the old gal was broken beyond repair and no longer capable of performing a FTL jump. If the "shit went down" again, she'd be utterly useless beyond a gun platform...and her weapon stores were essentially depleted.
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I actually thought the revelation of their true nature was one of the better moments in the finale. "You see them?!"
Which also made perfect sense, as this was exactly what Head 6 claimed from the beginning. It explained her preternatural knowledge of unfolding events throughout the series, knowledge of everyone's destiny, places and people involved, the meaning of the opera house and the shape of things to come.
Head Baltar's first appearance was also shocking, incredibly fascinating, (and often hilarious) especially when he revealed himself to the real Baltar.
Both of these entities were always in possession of knowledge well beyond the scope of the human/cylon characters. There was always something 'other' about them... Which tied into the visions many of the characters were experiencing and sharing.
Religious undertones were always a heavy part of the original and re-imagined BSG. The idea of them being literal angels made sense. It also makes sense that what we'd conceive of as 'angels' or 'god' wouldn't be truly comprehended by limited human minds, so they cloak themselves in forms our minds can assimilate. Especially if these forms inspire and drive the characters in question.
I don't mind that 'God did it', be that a sufficiently advanced alien/machine or a supernatural creator. It was very true to the original series, without the literal 'ship of lights', and consistent with Moore's vision. Starbucks' role in it all also played in nicely with these themes.
I just think there was much more to the 'cylon plan' in the beginning but the writers just shrugged it off in the end, either through a lapse in creativity or time. -
Wasn't anybody expecting a story about when the 5 first came to Caprica during the first Cylon war? How they got the Cylons to end it by offering them the resurrection technology and thus building the other 8 models (including Daniel) whom I would have like to have seen. And showing how Cavil went to become this self-hating misanthrope that plotted to destroy all humanity and punish his creators? I was expecting and hoping for it to end with the start of the 2nd Cylon war. To me that would have been a good story. Anybody agree?
Instead what we got was a clip show combined with footage left on the editing room floor. And while the story sucked, does anybody else think that the fault also lies with, Edward James Olmos just is not a very good director? Not horrible, just very by the numbers. -
Actually, the writers WEREN'T cornered. The most rational outcome to the story (as I said ad nauseum while we watched it go straight into the toilet) was that the "Final Five" and the rebels were simply another aspect of a Cylon trap.
By making the idealistic humans believe that there were two different factions, they stupidly let the Cylons convert all their FTLs to their technology, meaning the Cylons now had control over them. This meant that, unlike New Caprica, there would not be any escapees to flee the scene when they sprung their trap, as Galactica did when the Base Stars appeared.
A dire ending, but it would have emphasized an important danger about robots...we may wish to anthropomorphize them as they approach humans in appearance and action, but what's inside could be radically different. Moore was so hung up on creating some idealistic fantasy about machines "naturally" evolving into humans (where they could then hold hands with us and sing Kumbaya) that he steered the whole plot straight into the sun. Truly a waste. -
It's frankly really boring. The much ballyhooed attack on Caprica is about 5 shots and lasts like 2 minutes. It's cool, but it is the ONLY ACTION in the entire 2 hour movie!It's essentially Dean Stockwell: The Movie. i hope you really liked his character because he is in almost every scene. All the main characters are merely glimpsed, a line here or there.It feels like watching a bunch of deleted scenes back to back which were rightfully cut. It's not really a story. It jumps haphazzardly all through the first 2 seasons, answering questions you didn't have. In fact it sort of kills a little of the mystery. Do you really want to know what Boomer was saying just before waking up in the weapons locker? It just cheapens it in a very Star Wars prequel way for me.Some has effused that this is a great Shakespearian story of a Yago-type character attempting to manipulate events and failing miserably. I suppose you can look at it that way if you want to. to me it was just really boring.I went into this hoping for Letters from Iwo Jima. That would have been SO incredibly cool. This film is nowhere near that. It just rushes in and out of scenes from the series with quick, frankly silly bookends of Dean Stockwell almost rubbing his hands together evilly and twirling his moustache.
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At least in Razor we got Classic Cylons, more Battlestar battles at the start, and the story made sense.
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You don't get it. The POINT of the series is that NO SPECIES CAN SURVIVE unless they eventually learn to make peace with the "other". Our whole world has been standing on the brink of destruction for the last fifty years because one group or another hates one group or another. I am sorry if you think perpetual war and the destruction of your enemy and mass genocide is the only solution. 33 is the result of not waking the fuck up, why would you want to live perpetually in that existence? Do you really love the idea of self-damnation that much? I for one am glad the writers had a grasp of the big picture and looked beyond the grit of an action video game and reached for the stars so to speak. It's time to take your hand off your dick and your video game controller and grow the fuck up.
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Oct 27, 2009 3:20:01 PM CDT
So I guess you can't wait for Caprica, or more flicks like The P
by billyeveryteen
Of course not. There's a reason nobody gives a shit anymore. They ruined a stellar show. Sure I'm partial to blazing Vipers and 'sploshuns. But this show stopped being about a BATTLEstar, and became The Cylon Show. The stupid robot montoage says it all.That said, It WAS great for awhile, probably the best. Enjoy Caprica.
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I was as serious a fan as anyone, but face it, the finale was weak. The corner was too painted by that point, and now my enthusiasm to watch the new movie is waning. All the rationalizations here about the survivors ridding themselves of electronic technology, Angel Starbuck, Mitochondrial Hera, etc. are wasting oxygen on bullshit.
Why couldn't the show just have ended with them getting to this planet and realizing that what is OUR present is thousands of years in THEIR past and that they really need to knock off the fighting, with Human and Cylon living back on Earth in a new blended society? Why couldn't Kara have stayed with them and remained a mystery, along the lines of "it doesn't matter what I am, it's wonderful that I'm here now?" Why couldn't the writers have taken a nap, realized Espenson was spreading disease of the imagination and gotten their asses back on the track they'd wandered so far from? -
...so maybe after Stargate Universe tanks, Syfy could bring Adama back and tell the Battlestar story Billyeveryteen refers too. Olmos said it would start out with Adama getting a knock on his cabin door from Col. Tigh.I figure if Starbuck can die and return with a new Viper, why not return with the ole girl Galactica restored to her former glory to war with evil Cylons and stop the next "this will happen again" cycle from taking off.
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Didn't they already strike all the sets?
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They can't do more movies, because they fucking SOLD everything at auctions! Even big portions of CIC. Everything was sold!
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And now that I think back she did mark out numbers to notes either in the bar with her ghost father or with Hera. But in the end it still seemed like a touch-tone phone moment. --- And as for Mitochondrial Eve, I thought everyone had started talking about Star Wars and midi-chlorians. LOL
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The "Dr Nobel" episode. Or maybe they just borrowed it while BSG was still filming.
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...just in case.I'm not holding my breath, but then again, you never say never.
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There wasn
t really anything surprising in the movie but Dean Stockwell is remarkable. -
But then I decided that I would just "cut out the middle man" and let each of the show's writers take a shit directly into my eyes.
More or less the same effect. -
And this is from someone who really liked the finale. I turned off the plan after about 20 minutes when I realized there's no actual guiding story, its just a disjointed clip-show fill-in-the-blank. I agree with whoever said it above, they should've started it at the end of cylon-war 1, show how the final five stopped the war, show what happened. The stuff in this is just unnecessary details, and its at least 50% reused scenes.
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Assholes. I preodered a copy from them and they change the release date while everyone ELSE got it yesterday. FUCKING LOSERS! It's LISTED on your site as yesterday! SHIT HEADS!!
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"Can't we all just get along" sounds noble in principle, but consider the following:
Hitler won the war, conquered Europe, and now what's left of the Jewish people are floating around in the mid-Atlantic in a bunch of dingy, disease-ridden boats centered on an aging warship. As time passes, it becomes evident that there are a number of nazi agents on board the ships, who, when caught, assert that they're actually "good" rebel nazis (not rebel Germans, mind you...rebel NAZIS)...the death camps that wiped out your kin were the "other nazis" idea.
How many Jews do you think would buy into that notion?
This is why the last season of BSG sucked ass. -
Oct 28, 2009 12:17:26 PM CDT
I liked the last 2 seasons, just not nearly as much as the 1st 2
by revenge_of_fett
They made the same mistake as the original show, they abandoned the centurians and all but eliminated the action. character arcs and philosophy is all fine and dandy, but it started as an action-parable and turned into something far less interesting. the whole final 5 thing really irked me frankly. oh the final 5 JUST SO HAPPEN to be in the last tiny little pocket of humanity? Gee, what are the odds. *groan*
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He needs to direct/star in a movie about trophy wives, not about mercy and reconciliation.
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Went from BSG greatness, to probably starring in Lifetime movies.
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You act like there was no debate about the cylons in the fleet at all. I seem to recall two of the best BSG episodes ever, The Oath, and Blood on the Scales, being devoted to a very bloody coup motivated specifically by this debate. The side willing to trust the cylons may have won the fight, but that doesn't mean there wasn't a fight over the issue.
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Oct 28, 2009 4:00:19 PM CDT
lockes, no he went to the upcoming shitfest Green Hornet!
by revenge_of_fett
I mean, HOLY FUCK what a shitslide his career just dove down!
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BSG sucked.
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