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‘It’s Unfair But It’s Over!!’ Sunday Brings One Of 2009’s Final Three MAD MEN!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“I just found out some compromising facts!!”
“I’m not talking about our future!! I entered into this with my eyes open!!”
“Now I’m curious why you won’t answer the question!!”
“This is ugly!! You know that??”
“I like that you thought!! You want to be on people’s minds!!”
“Stop acting like you know everything!!”
“What are you doing here??”
Sterling Cooper’s for sale.
It looks like Roger Sterling’s about 10 minutes from cheating on the former Jane Segal.
And Betty found a key to the Dick Whitman drawer.
Tonight and beyond:
3.11 "The Gypsy and the Hobo"
A former client returns; Betty goes on a trip with the kids; and Joan and Greg plan for their future.
3.12 "The Grown-Ups"
Don meets with a candidate; Peggy second guesses her taste in men; Pete makes a big decision.
3.13 "Shut the Door and Have a Seat"
Don has a meeting with Connie; Betty gets some advice; Pete talks to his clients.
10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
$9: Shipping Next Week!!
$9: All Hail The King, Baby!!
A former client returns; Betty goes on a trip with the kids; and Joan and Greg plan for their future.
Don meets with a candidate; Peggy second guesses her taste in men; Pete makes a big decision.
Don has a meeting with Connie; Betty gets some advice; Pete talks to his clients.
$9: Shipping Next Week!!
$9: All Hail The King, Baby!!
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Sleep deprivation never felt so good.
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I wonder why they keep doing that. And Joan is back in the game! Should be a winner.
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I don't know..How do you sell horsemeat to the public for consumption here in the U.S.A.?
Oh yeah..No-No That was great in the clip when Don lights up cued to the words "Lung Cancer".. -
Yeah thats the way I'd bring this to Don...
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I'm not a fan (or a detractor) of the show, just curious if this is the end for real.
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Let's see if I can pull this joke off right in my next post.
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...is still delicious!
Ah well. A lukewarm joke fully ruined by my inability to type. -
Celebrity spokesperson Hillary Swank? Jennifer Garner? Carly Simon?
Okay, I think I'm just digging myself in deeper right now, and being hurtful to boot. -
They tried to market it as the poormans steak..It wasn't great but if I was real hungry it would work..I also remember in the 70's they tried to market Buffalo the same way....Beefalo anyone?
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Oct 25, 2009 11:00:24 AM CDT
Hey kid's Now you can have your old pal Mr. Ed on your lunchbox
by mr dark
and in your lunchbox too..Willlbur
put down that knife.. -
Mathis Stables: Thoroughbred to taste perfection!
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Okay, I'm turning into one of those posters that just keeps grinding out lame attempts at humor along the same theme ad nauseum. I'm going out for my morning run.
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wheres the dexter post?
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and not the series finale.
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For horse meat. I'm surprised nobody said it yet.
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You think a show that just won Best Drama two years in a row would just end after that? I don't think so.
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good one there mate
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Who gets more ass? Discuss.
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I thought she would have come up sooner in the horse face discussion becasue she's the definition of a horse face.
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These just leaked. http://tinyurl.com/yf9w4y6
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Not for the Mad Men update (I'll watch via DVR tomorrow, spoiler free), but thank you for finally avoiding the word 'antepenultimate' in these posts. What's next? Will your man crush on Whedon be cooled off too?
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she is truly the definition of horse face.But i must admit in that thriller flick with Bruce Wills as navy officers,she was very fit and very hot,especially in the sex scene.anyway.
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I thought he'd have a bigger role in this show, since he learned Don's secret early on, but he has been a very marginal character in this season--more so than last season! Also, Betty kind of sucks as a mother. She's a walking cliche of bitter housewife by now, they have nowhere to go but to have her divorce Don. She's not interesting to me anymore, I can pretty much bet on how she'll react to everything. Not NEARLY enough of Joan this year. Frankly, I'm getting sick of the focus on Don. And why is he so pissed at Roger? He just remembered Roger is rich? He suddenly has a problem with divorce? Kind of stupid actually, I think I disliked a lot of this season. The tractor over the foot was the highlight.
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can't believe people watch this crap
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Brock gets laid with much more regularity. But he's also not married. And he was in the military much longer and has the advantage of a universe with much less "rules".
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Seriously. I mean it.
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Its more like Roger got divorced and expected everything to stay the same. Don thought it was unseemly that he required to attend the stupid party for Roger's new toy. Its interesting to see what stance don will take on morally ambiguous issues. One of my favorite parts of the show.
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faints.
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Truly, the lowest of the low.
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and can't help it. for further proof of Lockies insanity, as if more was needed, I will repost two gems of his from the last two days.Prison Break was really goofy, but I liked it
by lockesbrokenleg Oct 24th, 2009
06:33:23 PM
The acting in it was stellar for TV. The Third season was brilliant.People are excited about Mad Max?
by lockesbrokenleg Oct 25th, 2009
04:20:11 PM
Yeah sure, the first one was good for its day, but it's pretty dated. 2 and 3 suck. See my point about Locke being nuts? He's so far off his meds and so far around the bend he's never coming back.
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you have to remember, that much like the sorpranos was a send up of the america dream...so is this show draper sees the american dream through the eyes of roger...his mentor until the divorce, don thought he could have his cake and eat it too...when he looks at roger, he sees his future however, he continues to blind himself to his own reality...as is shown in the above clip
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I just have better taste in film and TV than you.
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Is that a joke?
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Because you are so far out of wack skywalkerfamily that I feel sorry for you. That's why I stand up for you when everybody is kicking your ass, you can't help it.Those statements you made are evidence of your unhinged mind. You claimed Prison Break season three was excellent. You made the statment the the Road Warrior sucked. In every nation in the world that gets you locked up for at being a raving lunatic.
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It was fun and a good show, but your elitest mind wouldn't' know fun. Move along. Most people don't even remember the Road Warrior.
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just sayin'
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It's tasty and lean. Camel's good. Crocodile too. Snake has a sweet taste and turtle is a little tough (even without the shell). Kangaroo is too gamey, even more than venison. But I never tried horse.
Still, saying people all over the world eat it? That's not exactly an endorsement when you consider that a good chunk of the world eat bugs, dogs, yak, and don't wash their hands after they shit. -
Oct 25, 2009 8:31:52 PM CDT
Fred was told that Yak tastes like deep fried turkey
by freds_balls_in_a_mason_jar
Well Fred is here to tell you that is an untruth! Yak tastes like dung-oven cooked spoiled Moose without the seasoning! Please do not ask Fred how he knows about dung-oven cooked spoiled moose, it is a painful memory.
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tonight's ep = brilliant
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Kangaroo's great, it's just hard to cook properly. It needs to be cooked quickly over a really high heat or it dries out and gets gamey. Kangaroo burgers are the best.
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Was like a great classic Seinfeld episode. Brilliant and hilarious.
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People are too busy watching it to post talkbacks while it's on...
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shouldn't be posting in ANY AICN Talkback.
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and Ms. Farrell is starting to get hungry.
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That was some crazy engrossing TV. Better than most of the movies I've seen this year.
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That pretty much sums it up. Also, I don't see things ending well with the teacher. I can see this coming back to hurt Don/Dick ... but I hope it doesn't. He's kind of on a losing streak this season.
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That was the best episode of the entire series, and that last line was just completely perfect.
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JFK buys it. Don looked pretty aghast watching the news. (Then again, the kids didn't, so maybe it's 50-50.)
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Count on it. That was freakin' awesome.
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for the ratings.
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BTW, has Don ever cried before? That was stunning to behold.
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They sure jammed a lot into this one episode, and they finally got me caring more about some of the characters, namely the teacher and Roger.
I'd love to see Don divorce Betty as she just drags down the show. -
Too be fair I only ever had the tail, and I'm no judge of whether it was cooked properly. I'd pick it over squirrel or guinea pig any day, though. There's just not enough meat on those things to make them worth the trouble.
You know the most infuriating thing about Mad Men? How the "next on" teasers have NOTHING to say and give no hint at all what's really going to happen. What was Don talking about when he said Bert Cooper still has a say?
The expression on Don's face when Betty demanded he open the drawer, "you know I already know," was unbelievable. And going through the family photos? Wrenching. Not to mention the sloooooow burn of wondering when the nutjob was gonna get out of the caddy and walk through the door.
Not the best episode this season but it had great pacing. Don and Roger were on top of their game and the feeling of inevitably hung over the whole thing. -
Phenomenal writing was on display once again. The Don/Betty confrontation was truly incredible, that alone guaranteed this episode to be the one chosen for Emmy consideration. As for Lockesbrokenleg can't you leave us Mad Men fans alone to discuss the show in a mature and insult-free manner? Surely there is something else you can be doing with your time than trolling on EVERY talkback. There has to be something else that interests you.
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That's what Betty was crying about and saying "Am I just supposed to keep it from them?" in the teaser for next week. See what I mean? Those things are just freaking irritating, man.
I hate not watching this series on DVD. The dude is not fine. -
the same premise.
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Jesus H. Christ this show is good.
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all 3 delivered A+ episodes tonight. What a great night of TV.
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Seriously, just leave AICN and never come back.Thanks!
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Just saw that ending and I cannot think of a better episode of this show.
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I do think this was the first time we say Don Draper cry. I'm pretty sure about it actually. Don talking about Adam was such an arresting moment. And as much as I was yelling at Betty to reach out to him, I understood why she would feel frozen. God knows Betty probably has never seen Don cry. Things are coming to a head. I'm excited and worried about what is to come. Oh, and I love Joan. The moment with the vase was tremendous. But my favorite line of the night was Don's. For as far as he's come, and as much as he's done, there's still the poor kid in there who could never understand why anyone would ever truly love him. Don and Betty are both so sad. Maybe they really are meant for each other.
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Wow! That was great; just one amazing scene after the next. I am glad that Betty finally found out about her husband's past. That was the only logical next step story wise, and the only possible way their marriage was going to last. Betty catches so much shit from the fans, it was touching to see that she is willing to try and understand all of this. Still, Don now has to face a life of longing for Suzanne, the teacher, because, as Roger's parallel story makes us realize, Suzanne was "the one". The one we think about when life gives us the time, the one we really wish we were with- our heart's desire. But that's not going to happen for Don now, possibly never, but at least not for the forseeable future. And speaking of "the one", when Roger said to his old flame that she wasn't "the one", I thought he was thinking about Jane, his wife. It was only in the later scene when he is talking to Joan that I realized he must have been thinking about her. And then the closing song tonight "Where Is Love" put a perfect bow on the whole episode. Love sure can kick your ass. That show was genius.
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...Dick Whitman?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAH yep nuts. You my friend are way past crazy. It's probably about time you get recommitted to the "institution".
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I'm going to echo the general sentiment and say that they sure pack a whole hell of a lot into this episode.
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Oct 25, 2009 11:21:08 PM CDT
Also, the chances of Joan's husband being killed in 'Nam?
by voice o. reason
99.9%. Take that, Dr. Rapist!
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Don fell apart when Betty dropped it on him. The whole act crumbled. amazing tv. Now for Dexter.
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A goddamned motherfucking talkback about Venture Brothers 4.2 with the very special goddamned motherfucking talents of Kevin Conroy.
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Ngo Dinh Diem's murder would be my first guess. Maybe Miike coal mine explosion in Japan? Don only seems to ever watch TV with the kids on the weekend, but footage of Jack Ruby poppin' a cap in Lee Harvey Oswald seems like an outside chance. 10,000-to-1: a commerical for horsemeat dogfood.
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I wouldn't place the odds of that happening at anywhere near 99.9%. To me it's more like 50/50. It would be a very predictable plot machination and this show doesn't cater much to predictable. It would be more interesting to see how the war affects his worldview and his relationship to Joan.
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The actor that plays him got a job on the show GREEK, unless I'm thinking of somebody else. Either way, it seems like the obvious way to write him out of the show, especially if he's moving on to another show lockesbrokenleg will hate (and troll).
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Lame? Thy name is lockesbrokenleg.
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You're like a revolving door.
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Is that Roger Sterling isn't a compleat horn dog and he has some class. I figured he was going to throw a hump into the dog food queen.
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Throw us a bone this week Herc. Heroes has gotten about 40-50 posts each of the last two weeks. The show is finally taking off for what should be the real season 2.
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Even if the actor playing him does get another series, his role on Mad Men is so minor that it wouldn't be a stretch at all for him to continue his appearances. I don't know how many have noticed it, but the actress who plays Pete's wife Trudy is now one of the stars on the new NBC sitcom Community.
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You are one odd duck. You're the kind of guy who would stand in the Sistine Chapel and complain that you like Rob Liefeld comic books better because at least they have more energy that Michaelangelo guy's drawings.
Also: you'd have a lot more credibility if you picked any other show than Prison Break. Prison Break? Really? -
Do you need a little help with that comeback of yours?
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Yeah, you're right. And I definitely noticed Pete's wife in Community. However, I haven't seen much of her recently (unless I'm blind). I suppose it's definitely possible that he lives, however, I also wouldn't be surprised if he dies.
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give me a break. In every other thread you're bitching about something. Go suck a dick.
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You know what Lockie is working up to. I'm you, you're me yadda yadda yadda. Along with being totally deranged lockie isn't all that bright.
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you could probably teach him how, jerkoff.
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Though seeing Joan smash with a vase was pretty damn gratifying.
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That was an amazing episode. And now I need to check and find out the survival rate of medical personel in nam. I bet the Doc's days are numbered. But what if Roger gets Joan a good job? Does she ditch the dude? Did anyone else think Betty was awesome in this episode? The teacher was in the car the whole fucking time!!!
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Prison Break? Really? You poor bastard...
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He's 100% certifiable Virgin. neither cock nor Pussy has touched any part the young fella from crazy town.
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Even with all that happened Don still didn't get all the way caught. Teflon fucker.
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So, how is that screaming wife of yours these days? And those 2 brain dead kids of yours?
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Talking shit on a mans kids from the safety of the internet. No wonder you didn't like Road Warrior.
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Uh, Xiphos 2 was the one being the asshole. But, then, he's probably used to it.
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Only Jay Gatsby didn't get killed by the mechanic, he actually ended up marrying Daisy.
Like Gatby's love for Daisy, Don's love for Betty has more to do with what she represents than for who she really is. Maybe the story of MAD MEN will ultimately be about two people who meet and marry, and years later, finally get to know each other and fall in love.
Or maybe for Don, the schoolteacher is "the one."
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Don't have any kids, not married either, knock on wood! Fail again sport. That's not even a good line of attack son.Now remember what the doctors told you the last time you were institutionalized, when the world gets scary and you feel the need to "lash" out take a deep breath and imagine that you are safe and calm. Also, tiger, get back on the meds you could benefit from them. I only say these things to you sporto becasue I'm trying to help. You really really need it. Prison Break? there's all the evidence I need.
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Nevermind. I don't want to know.
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Emmy should be wrapped up for just that Episode.
Wasn't a huge fan of the start of this season, but has got back to season 1 quality.
Would also echo, some other comments probably the best writing this year in both movies and tv. -
could be locked in a talkback by themselves, I wonder who would have the most intelligent comment? My money's on DickInAss.
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I sure am getting sick of everyone cheating on their wives. Can't one person on this show learn their lesson? Every character's seeming inability to learn from a mistake or improve themselves is starting to just depress me.
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It's official. We had about 6 weeks of truly great talkbacks, that were intelligent and made sense, no arguing or trolling whatsoever. But lockesbrokenleg and some other fucking retards have officially ruined it. We had a sanctuary from the retardation of this sight, but, alas, these things never last. Thanks for being such an incredible, lifeless dick locke. Do you really have nothing better to do all day and night than come on here and continue to post and argue with people? Honestly, and I'm not even trolling, but you clearly don't have any life outside of watching television and film. Do you have any friends? You're going to come back on here and rant and rave about how much cock I smoke etc, but really, deep deep down, and I'll never know because I dont know you, but deep deep down, you know how fucking sad you are. Trolling AICN talkbacks is below pathetic, and we see you on here, day and night, doing exactly that. I've never seen any one so consistently ruin talkbacks. You're soooo much better than all of us. We get it. Move along. Not one person here likes you, but like not one persons likes you in the real world either. You're a vapid hole. Get fucking lost.
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This episode was stellar. The parallels between Roger and Don, the "who are you supposed to be?" line, not to mention the advice Don gave to horsemeat lady about changing the name of the product but it still being the same. Really terrific writing, from the biggest of themes to the smallest of small talk. Every episode is a fucking masterstroke. Jon Hamm needs an Emmy for the scene in the bedroom.
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Locke is just a pathetic example of a human being.
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That was a little "on the nose" don't you think?
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My other favorite line, courtesy of Peggy Olson during the doggie taste test:
"I can't turn it off, it's actually happening!" -
He should have kept multiple boxes of photos around the house, all with different names on the backs. Then when she confronted him, he could have unveiled all the other boxes and said "I knew you were snooping around, which is why I planted fake former identities all over the place. Let it be known you've been Draped, woman. Now fix them kids somethin to eat."
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The truth is, cunt faces like lockesbrokenleg have consistently "dropped in" to share their moronic, pointless, pathetic "thoughts", they were just largely ignored. We should probably go back to that, especially with this douchebag.
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Simple. Because people don't change in any real significant way. The majority of people living on this planet will never undergo some great catharsis or rite of passage. They just are what they are while they're still sucking air. And with the Ayn Rand influence over Don's character, he is willingly and knowingly 'selfish' with no real concept of remorse. His emotions this episode were genuine in a 'past finally caught up' kind of way, but I wouldn't bank on Don being a bumbling crybaby mess from here on out. Just look back to when Betty kicked him out. Aside from the occasional plea to return home, it was business as usual for Don. At his core, he is the ultimate bird chaser -- he is captivated by free spirits, but once he has caged them they don't hold the attraction anymore. In her modelling days, I'm sure Betty was socially a lot like the teacher or the beatnik he was throwing it to in the first season. The real strength of Don's character is his adaptability and his lack of sentimentality, which has made him an asshole at times with his employees, but also allows him to stop a relationship cold turkey with no real afterthought. I don't think we will be seeing much more of the teacher. I think she was just this season's free bird.
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First, I had to snicker when someone said "Don exposed Dick". Second, our protagonist shall now be nicknamed "Teflon Don", like Gotti. I loved the lung cancer bit, because there was a pause when we looked at Don to make us expect a joke. But they just moved on.Favorite lines? Peggy's "It's actually happening", and Greg's "...maybe get sent to Vietnam, if we're still there." I love these writers' subtle comments like that. Sure, it stands out for us, but it's just another sentence in the middle of a conversation for them.
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I don't think this show is really about NOT being "on the nose" ... the last line of the episode was very much that, but fuck a bunch of subtlety, I say, if you can have a great moment, go for it.That being said, the smoking thing, I think was not that kind of thing - it was an "awkward moment".
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I agree. Ol' lockes is the equivalent of AICN's worst gnat...and I'm not entirely sure he understands the purpose of Talkback beyond using it as his own personal Twitter account.Good to see you, sir. Hope all is well on your end.
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Recently, I moved and now do not have AMC in my cable channel package. As a consequence, I've missed out on the last 2-3 eps and can contribute nothing of substance to the TBs beyond the trashing of lockesbrokenleg. But I'm glad to see that the show is still firing on all cylinders. Steady on!
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This is the best husband/wife ep since Tony and Karm went at it big time when she called him out in season 5 (I think). She was back against the wall and said. "go ahead, Tony. Hit me." and he can't. The look on her face is Oscar material. Same with Don when he's found out. John Hamm and January Jones just showed what great actors they really are. What no one's mentioned, I think, in the yakback, is that all of these actors were all but nobodies before this show. They are all incredible actors in their own right. I think that a lack of star power is what drives us to watch.
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when Don dropped that ciggy I think there was a collective gasp all across america.
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Using Sara Jessica Parker as the spokesperson for a horsemeat campaign would really be "on the nose." And yes, I just said that.
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It could also be the first time Don actually looked scared. He couldn't even squeak out the usual "What do you want me to say?"
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I think you have to give it up to Roger for NOT cheating on his new wife last night. And for a moment or two, it seemed as if he wanted to. Granted, I think one of the takeaways from the episode is that he really loved Joan, but for whatever reason, when presented with the opportunity, one of the shows leading philanderers took a pass on moral grounds.
Then again, if it'd been a young nubile stewardess for whom he hadn't harbored years of resentment, offering up a quick roll in the hay, would he have resisted? Hmmmm.... -
the way men tastes. Obviously...
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That look of pure despair and hopelessness on Don's face as he was confronted by Betty was amazing. Yup, Emmy worthy. The past few episodes are playing out what the title sequence has alluded to all along.
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Did it seem like he was finally relieved to tell Betty? It seemed like he slept like a baby afterwards, like he had a weight off his chest. Its one of those situations where you get an amazing girl with an act and when you get caught being yourself, it turns out she's still into you. When it happens its an amazing realization.
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A particular focus this season has been Betty's struggle with the mundane. I have a hunch that discovering Don's tragic past will in a round about way be attractive to her.
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Oct 26, 2009 10:59:21 AM CDT
Goodness this was great thanks to Don, Roger, and Joan!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Oh and Betty as well!When Joan hit her hubby with the vase I fell outta my damn chair and laugh a good couple of minutes!And I love Betty forcing Don to come clean about a part of his life that he keeping a secret. Hell it look like Don was finally happy to get it off his chest. I think he actually slept really well! Very good episode!
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Snore Men? Snore is a verb. You should've picked an adjective. "Bland Men", for example. Also, I feel sorry for anyone fished in by lockesbrokenleg. He's clearly pushing buttons for the sake of pushing buttons.
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That's such a low blow. I love it. As far as this episode of Mad Men goes: wow. I'll echo everyone else here by saying that Hamm turned in an incredible guaranteed Emmy winning performance last night. Other than that, there's not much analysis I can do that someone else hasn't already said. Although, if Joan's husband does go to Vietnam, I don't think he has much to worry about. He's a surgeon, not a field medic, they won't have him on the front lines or out in the jungle. He'll be on semi-permanent bases. So, unless the show runs 'til '68 (another five seasons at one year per season), and his base gets overrun in the Tet Offensive or something, he's probably safe. And, since Herc didn't bother to post a Dexter talkback this week, I hereby declare this talkback open to Dexter comments too! Dexter last night was just about as good as Mad Men, believe it or not. I don't want to ruin it for people who haven't watched it yet, since last week was such a huge cliffhanger, but, I'll say that I was really affected by Lundy and that scene a little over half-way through with Debra. Jennifer Carpenter's performance in the parking lot was impressive. I'm very interested to see where they're going to go with Trinity, given that the relationship is at this level at only episode 5. That's going to give Dexter and Trinity seven episodes to play cat and mouse games. With knives. If this season keeps going the way it is, it may just be the best season since the first season.
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I feel it best to use the name used on Sons of Anarchy a few weeks ago. On SoA, they showed a fake porno shoot set on a '50s era stage called "Meek Men." It featured a woman giving an erstwhile Don Draper an Anal Rain Dance, and yes, I had to look that up too.
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I'll be DVRing Sons of Anarchy based on what you described alone.
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Betty now gets to join the uptight bitches club along with Skylar (Walter's wife on Breaking Bad) and Rita (Dexter's wife). All three characters serve the same purpose: to stick their noses into their husbands' businesses where they don't fucking belong, and to fuck things up for me who are faithful (with the exception of Don) and are just doing everything they can to provide for and protect their family. Speaking of Dexter again, he missed a major opportunity there in an excuse for why he kept his old apartment. Last season, Debra expressed interest in moving in once he moved out to live with Rita. He should have said that he kept the apartment so that Debra could move in if things went south with Anton. He could have elaborated that he told everyone he got rid of it so that Debra wouldn't feel she had an easy way out of her relationship with Anton and wouldn't deliberately screw it up knowing she had an easy fallback. That would have dovetailed nicely with the way Debra was feeling last night about how she automatically fucks up relationships just because she is who she is.
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Until last Tuesday you would have been able to watch that scene on Hulu. It's at the start of 2x03, if it's still available on your On Demand system. As far as the rest of the show goes, it's Hamlet, but with a biker gang with a libertarian/anarchist political bent. It's really intriguing stuff from some of the people responsible for The Shield, coupled with some great actors (Katey Sagal, Ron Perlman, Maggie Siff, Charlie Hunnam, and a Deadwood alum, Charlie Utter actor Dayton Callie).
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Peggy: "I can't. It's actually happening."
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Going to have to give Sons of Anarchy a look...
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Fucking god damn this show is great. Damn skippy Doc Rape is going to be deader than horsemeat when he goes to Nam. What a douche. Did anyone else get the feeling Joan was glad he was leaving because I sure did.
And damn if I didn't get choked up when Don started talking about his brother. Emmy win right there.
Peggy pissed me off though. What a ditz. Of course they meant turn off the sound you fucking ninny. Jesus. -
I didn't get any impression he was leaving without taking her. He sounded like he fully expected her to go with him once basic training was over with. I'm guessing she will divorce him though.
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Is that allowed? He can take Joan to NAM wit him? That doesn't seem right but I don't know jack all about the military. What does Xiphos think?
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His residency would be in New York some time after Basic Training. I guess that means he may spend time at a hospital before being shipped elsewhere, like West Germany or Vietnam.
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I personally found it funny he pretty easily forgave the vase smashed over his head. I had no idea Joan had any "psycho bitch" tendencies in her. To maybe just partially take Greg's side a little here, Joan's demeanor in her interview lesson was pretty condescending. Granted, dealing with Greg seems to be like dealing with a child.
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Peggy's on the reefer again...
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I didn't find Joan to be condescending there. Her advice to him on how to conduct himself during the interview was perfectly sound. Unless your definition of condescending is someone communicating information to another person with confidence and assertiveness. Maybe that's why people find me so condescending in real life...
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Who's sleeping with who? Sounds like a soap.
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Congrats on the new digs!I don't post every week, but I do drop by regularly to read the TB. I was wondering why you weren't posting and now I know. :-)BTW Don Draper was the epitome of emotional intelligence in every scene in this episode. Although I'm sure it seems like cowardice to some, but a husband better respond in the way he did when confronted as such.
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I had never seen real violence on TV until that Saturday morning in November. I wonder if that vision will be inflicted on the Draper children who may be home watching the tube as I was? If any show can spin drama from that it would be Mad Men.
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Joan was right on with the interview advice, but I think Greg sometimes resents how much Joan really does know about a great many things, or that she is just so sharp that she can jump into anything. I loved the vase breaking moment because it just totally spoke to Joan's state of mind with Greg's "you don't know how I feel" bullshit. Joan was working to land herself the perfect husband and perfect life since before we ever met her. It's totally right for her also to feel like the rug has been pulled out from under her.
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one of the best episodes of mad men. when i checked the clock, i couldn't beleive 10mins had gone, since alot was happening in the episode. from when don returned home to find betty, i started getting breathless at what might happen, i weren't expecting the family to be home. The only show to regulary make me seize breath is breaking bad. betty confronting don was really heartning, as id imagine she was just as scared as he was. I knew mad men wouldn't do it, but due to watching below par dramas, i kept expecting the teacher to come to the door. This episode makes me think how long this show can go on for now. It was cool to see the Roger character given something to do. As a uk viewer i never see the previews they have for the following episodes, but catching one just then, i think it spoils the whole mad men experience, as it tries to condense something that can't be reshaped.
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Things are fine here. New place to live? congrats.
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(Sorry about the double post.)
The last line was the best line of the episode! What a summation! -
...and even though I watch this show regularly, it is certainly not worthy of all the accolades that are heaped on it every year. "The Best Drama on TV"? Hardly. Someone needs to tell the writers that even though the late 50's and early 60's were considered a slower time, it doesn't mean the people talked slower. And why are inundated with small vignettes of everyday actions? Lighting a cigarette takes twenty minutes, for heaven's sake. I am surprised we don't see the characters in the bathroom during a deposit. Thirty seconds of staring into space once in a episode is quite enough but "Mad Men" does it repeatedly.
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He's usually totally unflappable about everything, but just this once, he completely fell apart. It seems like Betty has something to hold over his head if there's ever a divorce...
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BB is the best drama on tv. Bar none. Lost is 2nd. Dexter is 3rd.
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Thanks gents, I appreciate it. Cheers!
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others may differ.
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I'm not saying it isn't, but someone explain why it's good. It just looks like a soap opera of rich suits and their marital affairs. What distinguishes it? Don't say "the writing".
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Mad Men specializes in a subtle style that you aren't going to get with the 3 shows that you named. When you deal with ordinary people and not serial killers or fantasy island castaways you have to delve into the character aspects in less frontal way. The plot is still crucial but the everyday-ness of the plot has to be relied on to develop the strong emotions and actions that define characters. Even Breaking Bad depends more on a single plot device - the idea that Mr. Mild-mannered is cooking meth - to set up the tension for the entire series. With Mad Men it is the characters themselves driving the story, their actions and dilemas as encountered in a routine life.
It's the very subtlety, the under-stated nature of it, that turns off certain viewers. Some people like twists and turns and weird-ass shit, some like quiet and thoughtful exploration of complicated people, some like both. -
He is one of the 3 main characters, if he's getting almost no screentime, they're saving him up for a lot later on obviously.
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Oct 26, 2009 5:47:21 PM CDT
Don should've done morse code with flashlights to teacher
by takingscorpioscalls
to gtfo. Or fake birdcalls from the window mixed with words like Steve Martin did in Three Amigos.
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They set Mad Men apart. Watch any given ten minutes of last nights episode and it will be immediately apparent. The only catch is that in order for any of it to be meaningful or really any good,you have to have watched every episode, have paid serious attention, and have the power of intellect on your side. Those three things make any ten minutes of Mad Men better than anything currently on tv, and almost as good as The Wire.
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I, too, hope and believe he will become a more principal character as the seasons progress. Not only that, but Kartheiser has gotten so fucking brilliant in the character.
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Your points are duly noted.
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Characters on this show are showing a predilection for dying off suddenly. I have a deep, dark feeling that Roger's one decent act will be his final one. Poetic.
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"Because our biscuits are really made out of Seabiscuit!
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Oct 26, 2009 7:08:13 PM CDT
The affair with the teacher was really getting on my nerves.
by royston lodge
I really hope it's over.
And I'm glad they finally did something with Joan & Greg. I don't think he's gonna die in Vietnam. -
...M*A*S*H from the point of view of the wives back home.
In M*A*S*H, all the doctors were fucking all the nurses and stuff, but what (who) were the wives doing back home? -
I keep waiting for Samantha Stephens to show up and save whatever lame ad campaign they're working on with a twitch of her nose.
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I thought of that Sopranos episode too
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I wonder why people are so resentful that other people like this show and they don't. Nearly every troll in here mouths off about it being overrated and winning awards and they don't care if critics like it etc, etc. Now this last joker is demanding someone tell him why it's a good show. Who the fuck DOES that??? It's not your cup of tea, just move the fuck ON. Nobody wants to hear about it.
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Then I guess we *don't* explain it to them. It's not like they're here on this forum board to actually ENJOY an episode of Mad Men. Their mind is already made up, and it's not like it's going to be changed anytime soon. Just ignore them. They just come on here because they're bored and they're not smart enough to understand what quality television is about.
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I did find it funny that she equated searching for a rich husband, with getting through med school. I know she was "working" for that "goal" her whole life, but come on...
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Man. What an episode.
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Yeah, Samantha was always saving Darren and Larry ass with some half-ass slogan. Why didn't Larry hire her?Anyway I love Joan hitting doc but I really expected his ass to be knocked out! Oh well I think she been wanting to do that for awhile.
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What sets MAD MEN apart is a little factor called "exposition". Good writers make it possible to figure out their characters and plot with a minimum of explanation.
A perfect example is the character of Betty Draper, who's suspicions and motivations have to be heavily inferred from her actions...she simply doesn't talk very much, especially about what she's feeling (certainly not as much as that motormouth Carmela on THE SOPRANOS). In fact, none of the characters tend to explain themselves, and when they do, it's sometimes deceitful...they're in a cutthroat business, after all.
The result is that the characters on MAD MEN are highly realistic in nature. THE WIRE had a similar approach. -
First, it is a show about where we came from. You might take handicapped parking and ramps as things everyone does or accept the equality of women as a matter of course. But little scenes like a man's ad career ending because he lost a foot illustrate the difference between how we were and how we are. The show isn't about those things as such, just the evolution of thought. Second, the show is about illusion and reality and the tenuous difference between them. The title sequence illustrates the image of the business man, then his story starts falling apart, the floor drops out from under him, people see through his illusion, he falls, but then that too is an illusion. And third, it provokes emotion and also suspense in entirely unexpected ways. A man drops a cig and we are on the edge of our seat. Its not immediatly accessable because they set things up waaaay in advance. A scene last episode was so powerful because it was set up 3 seasons ago. The show is in turns Steinbeck, Fitzgerald, and Rand. At least that's why I watch it. Maybe someone else has a better answer.
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...was the funniest thing I've seen on this show in a while.
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John Hamm should have been polishing up his Emmy acceptance speech after this episode. If Mad Men were a film, he'd be in line for an Oscar. The writing was pitch perfect. The show was brilliant. Hamm was magnificent. You are not going to see many performances like that on TV ever. Every cast member was on fire in this episode. Even Suzanne's last scene in the episode was note perfect. Don't waste time with the trolls. They won't get it. This is quickly becoming the best drama to ever be on TV. How fucking brilliant was it to have Betty confront Don while the teacher was outside in the car. Holy shit my heart stopped the entire time. Amazing.
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...to unseat The Wire as the best series on television EVAR. I don't think I have a problem with calling it a close second though (and pushing The Shield into the number three spot).
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Hey man, stop talking. Your giving us Lost fans a bad reputation. Rhuragh, The Wire stands outside of television. It is a cultural entity that will forever stand as a milestone in our era.
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See what the writers do is, is they throw you a curve-ball. They make it seem like she's a nutcase and that Don should avoid her. But then, they make Betty into an uber-bitch, and make it appear that the teacher chick is actually worth being with.
Betty=done. Kill her off or have her kill herself. I thought she was amazing in the first season but when she is such a miserable bitch, all the things that make her attractive just go away and are replaced by a perpetual sour puss on her face.
Don should leave her, marry the crazy teacher chick and hope to God she's not as BPD as they lead you to believe.
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and any man that thinks so is a macho pig up until now, don has managed to be with women who neither need nor want an emotional commitment, she does...because she is a normal woman and the only reason draper is with her, is becuase he has no responsibilty in the relationship oh, he plays responsible,but he still goes home to the wife and kides in this way, draper is very much like tony soprano...only acting on his urges because he has learned that the role call for it it is draper who is the sick fuck...and his near nervous breakdown proves it
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hasnt been paying attention to the show here is an intelligent, educated woman, who was taught by her mother and society, that in order to succeed in life, one must be subservient to a man...and she is slowly coming to the realization that this sort of life is just one step above slavery she needs to go down to the village, buy a full dom outfit, whip and chains, and beat the shit out of don...plus seeing her dressed in latex and leather will for sure give me huge wood
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I don't think people thinking she's crazy is based so much on what she's said and done, more on the fact that the actress simply looks crazy. She has a crazy stalker look on her face much of the time. Maybe it was bad casting but it's more likely that they intended that. As to Don having issues, well we all know that! Ha.
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She has been cheated on by Don and lied to nonstop from the very beginning. She is intelligent and well educated but, spends most of the day keeping house in Don's suburban trophy case in Ossining. Waiting for him to come home at what 8 or 9 every night or not at all.
She may not be the best mother but, that may have more to do with her being a seething cauldron of anger over the way Don has treated her.
After Don for once told her the complete truth she forgave him unconditionally. That is not the behavior of a "Bitch". -
At this point, it's probably not the kind of show you can just flip on mid-season, mid-series and appreciate it. You have to have seen everything that's gone on so far to appreciate the characters, the meaning behind what's going on. And I'm not saying that as a snob, it's just that that's the way it's been written. Also a reason why networks wouldn't like something like it. You can't just tune in any episode, any rerun, etc, like the Law & Order type shows.
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She was faced with a pretty shocking revelation about her husband, what is when supposed to do, smile and take it in stride? Betty has her issues OBVIOUSLY but I wouldn't call her a bitch. I also think the actress does an excellent job - the character isn't as simple ("frustrated house wife") as some make her out to be.
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ABC is cutting the final season of LOST into two parts because of the fucking Olympics. I know this is way off topic, but I know a lot of you are also huge LOST fans, so I thought you'd want to know our final season is being butchered so as not to compete with the olympics. Sucks. Sucks sooo hard.
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Wait two parts how exactly? That sounds like a load of shit to me. I'll look it up I guess
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Just annoying.
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I think that Betty has slowly and realized that despite everything she's married "below her station". The gift from the airport shop, the casual comment that Don "doesn't get money" (paraphrasing) and now the revelation of his origins. And she's fucking TRAPPED -as the confidential chat with the lawyer made clear. All her actions are her kicking against this stasis - the flirtation with rider boy, the Albany pol, the growing irritation and coldness toward her kids. The one time she didn't have that sourpuss look and tightness on her face was when she "won" that small victory to redo the reservoir survey - she'd learned how to use a little bit of power, albeit cultivated and implemented through the promise her sexuality. That expression on Don's face when she repeats the pol's quote to him about the power of delaying is priceless. Who is this woman becoming? Ironic, since she know can claim she doesn't know who he is. Two people from vastly different pasts who realize they're actually strangers who've been "playing roles" after almost 10 years together. That's crushing. And I can't agree that she has forgiven Don unconditionally at all. She does superb, resonant work with very little text, January Jones. This episode perked up a largely disappointing season, and we'll see possibly in retrospect that Mad Men's extraordinary highpoints camouflaged a lot of filler - much like later seasons of Sopranos. Oh, finally - I hate comparisons, there's a place for everything etc - but The Wire remains un-fucking-touchable. Thanks for the lucid, engaging talkback, as ever, people.
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The Olympics is only 2 weeks. If the show airs on Wednesday, there should be an episode on February 10, then the next one March 3. After being off the air for 8 months, I think I can survive a 2 week hiatus mid-season.
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Not like literally breaking into two seperate acts, like Battlestar galactica 4.0 and 4.5. There is just going to be a two or three week hiatus, like they did all through season 2 and 3, which sucked massive donkey nuts. I mean, I can survive a hiatus, but I don't want to. I wanted the final season to play out as an un-cut, continuous story without any breaks. Oh well. And I'm sorry I wasn't clearer with my statement.
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Oct 27, 2009 10:26:49 AM CDT
Roger recalls that John Dos Passos character Dick Savage.
by cookylamoo
Dick Savage, who goes to Europe young, idealistic and adventurous and eventually loses all his ideals and winds up a drunken, bitter advertising executive.
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THey ought to just start it late, then. I hate the idea of a multi-week break. Terrible.
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No way he'd be conscious after a hit like that, unless the vase was really really really cheap and flimsy. Hell, he probably should have died from a hit like that.
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The Wire, Lost and Six Feet Under. I don't think I could have chosen 1 out of the those 3 as my all time favorite. Then Mad Men came along and I had more of an emotional connection to this story, for some reason, than any of those shows. I'm in the Writers Guild of America and last year had to vote on best series and I sat there for awhile trying to choose between Lost and Mad Men. Once I stopped debating, I knew I had to pick Mad Men as my vote. I'm stunned by the elegance of the storytelling and I don't find any episodes boring or filler. It's fun to debate what we think is the best show ever. It's what fans do. The Wire was fucking brilliant. I watched all 5 seasons in basically a month and a half. That said, I think Mad Men is the best TV drama I've ever seen. It's a personal choice, but this show blows me away week after week. When the series run is complete I'll be curious to see where some of you feel it ranks with the other great shows.
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Did a wife have to prove adultry to file for divorce? The family laywer gave her the best choices based on what her choices were available at that time. And short of having Don sent to jail for fraud, what are her choices?
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http://tinyurl.com/24S8TRAIL
24 Season 8 trailers... -
Lighten up homie, a little slapstick never hurt anyone ...
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Season 4, to be precise. It's great. I don't think it's better than Mad Men but they are two very different show. I couldn't see ranking them, or most of the shows I like. The Wire, Lost, Mad Men, these things are all pretty different from one another.
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Of course Betty isn't a bitch but I'm tired of seeing that their marriage isn't working. By now, they're just beating a dead horse. YES, they don't belong together. We get it.
It was interesting seeing what led up to Don coming clean about his past, but if all it's ever going to be is Betty barking orders at him or throwing little temper tantrums, it's just going to be the typical shitty marriage. Who wants to watch that?
Have her hook up with someone else, at least she'd be smiling again. January Jones is a beautiful woman but they are basically saying "You will never be an attractive woman again on this show. You are only allowed to frown from here on out."
As a red blooded male, I don't like too much of that. -
I don't know if that's the message we're supposed to be receiving
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Therefore, they don't belong together. I don't know what message you think I'm supposed to receive but that's my opinion.
But I'm afraid they're going to milk the end of their marriage forever as "Story A". Sorry, but for me I stopped caring about their marriage as soon as Betty kicked Don out of the house.
Remember that scene with Roger and Don at the bar where they are sort of flirting with the girls at the other end of the bar and Roger says something like "they lose that glow once they hit 30", well that's what has happened to Betty. She has lost that glow and to me she is no longer interesting because of that. -
marriages that stick together "for the kids", despite all the psychological damage they're doing to them. And the newborn has locked them into that sentence for even longer. Divorce was not so common in the 60's, and actually was seen as a sign of failure. That the couple couldn't make it work, was frowned upon. My parents didn't divorce until the mid 70's, just a year or two after their 25th anniversary.
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And that isn't hyperbole at all. Mad Men is great, but The Wire is far superior.
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Mad Men is still good though
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I was not arguing your opinion but you said "we get it" as if the point was being hammered home quite blatantly and I don't think it is. They are certainly two unhappy people for the most part, but I don't think that means they're unhappy because of each other. In many ways they suit each other fine. Anyway the fact that you agree Betty's lost her "glow" due to age is a bit disconcerting and I don't think I need to argue points about TV relationships with people who lose interest with women once the reach a certain age.
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Mention The Wire and some people have an absolute reflexive need to declare it untouchable, the best ever, even when you've just complimented it and suggested it's probably unwise to rank things in such a way. It's like an emotional response with you people, you're in love with a television show ; )
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FINALLY the chips are on the table. I'm not sure how long the marriage will last though since Betty will kill Don if he continues to keep things from her (and she'll kill him if he confesses to the affairs too so he's in a sticky spot). She's proven she can see through the lies and has the courage to confront him. I like that he didn't stonewall her again and just confessed most of what we know. For all that, I'm still worried about Joan, they'd better get her back to the firm soon.
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What was really cartoonish was his reaction which was like "you're insane!" or some shit like that, in reality he would have smashed the door and gave her a fucking black eye ESPECIALLY in the fucking 60s.
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I don't think it's the subserviance to a man that's pissing her off, it's just that Don is acting generally dickish. And the feminist movement of the 60s/70s was retarded considering that women have been more unhappy since then.
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were you paying attention when betty was talking to the atty? in 1963, the only way betty could get a divorce is if she could prove adultery in court...and even then, don could get away with giving her nothing...and take the kids the laws were all set up to make sure that a woman could not make it without a man in general, people are less happy today, because they are much more aware of the world around them...but i prefer to be an unhappy, informed person, then to be a happy, ignorant moron
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I didn't mean the glow that goes away with age, I meant the glow that goes away when you're always frowning and miserable. They have turned a beautiful woman like January Jones into a perpetually frowning woman and it's sad to see because when she smiles her whole face lights up. That's how she was in the first season and that's how I want to see her again. As long as this relationship with Don just peters out at a s l o w rate she's always going to have that pissed off look on her face.
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I see what you're saying. Anyway, it's a strange time to talk about the relationship petering out when the last episode contained a breakthrough that might end up saving it!
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Yes, she's very intelligent and highly educated, and yes she's married to a serial philanderer, however, she lost the moral high ground to complain about Don's philandering when she slept around herself. The reason Betty is a bitch is because she's beginning to look on Don with typical class-bound contempt. Her family is old money. MGTHEDJ said it right in the Mad Men TB two weeks ago. Here it is: "All the progress Don made with Betty died when he gave her that charm for her braclet. Don thinks living in that house in Ossining is the good life. It is, if you were a poor kid from the hillbilly backwoods of the Ohio Valley. To Betty, it's a step down. In her mind, they should be living in Connecticut with a full-time staff of 3." As I just said, she comes from an old money family, and now she's learned that the guy she married is the son of a prostitute. She was probably tolerant of marrying a guy who was middle-class, particularly since he was on the way up in a prestigious Manhattan advertising agency, but now that he's the son of a shit-kicking dirt farmer and a prostitute, that's far too much for her aristocratic sensibilities. There's only one thing aristocrats hate more than the poor and middle class, and that's the nouveau riche. Not only does Don not provide the lifestyle she's accustomed to, but now she's learned he's an impostor ("I don't even know who you are."). She hasn't forgiven him. This new-found contempt for his origin is seething inside her and will come back to bite Don in the ass. Betty most certainly is a supercilious classist bitch.
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...I don't recall Betty actually saying the words, "I forgive you," or anything even remotely similar. I do recall her saying many very arrogant, demeaning, and dismissive comments like this: "You don't get to ask any questions." (Not offensive in and of itself, it's the manner in which she delivered the line.)"I see how you are with money. You don't understand it." (Actually, you arrogant bitch, poor people do very much understand the meaning of money. Money means life. No money means hunger, starvation, and even death. The poor understand the value of money much more than the rich do.) "You wouldn't have kept all this in _my_ house." (You wouldn't have kept all this trash, like the deed to the house you bought your whore wife, or the pictures of your shit-kicking dirt farmer family. And wait a minute, what's this about _your_ house? Don worked for it. Don paid for it. It wasn't given to him by your father, unlike everything you've ever owned in your life. I personally have no problem with the concept of shared possessions in marriage, but she's not even paying lip service to the concept.) "No, there's a big difference. You lied to me every day." (You lied to me by hiding the fact that you're the son of a prostitute. That our children are now the grandchildren of a prostitute. You conned me into marrying whore-spawn.) "I can't trust you. I don't know who you are." (Yes, the last ten years married to the man have given you absolutely no insights into his character or into the person he wants to be, the person he aspires to be. Obviously, who he was thirty years ago is much more important than who he is now. And thirty years ago, he was a shit-kicking dirt farming son of a whore.) You know, I just watched the last half of the episode to compile those quotations, and at no time does Betty ever say anything that could be construed as absolution. In fact, her last comment before being interrupted by the baby is, "We're not done." After that, her further reproach is interrupted again by Don explaining the contents of the photographs. It would have been impolitic of her to interrupt his honest displays of grief by castigating him further.
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And why SHOULDN'T she give him hell about his bullshit? All those quotes (though not the "explications" that follow) above are completely justified. Don knew it too. (For the record, Don told her he was the son of a prostitute after all those quotes and she didn't react poorly at all. In fact from that point on she was pretty kind to him, considering).Betty has had her bad moments on the show, and quite a few of them, but last week's episode was not one.
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Don may not be a good husband, but he is a good parent and father. Betty is not.
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Because the contents of that box were none of her fucking business. It's that simple. She had NO RIGHT to violate his privacy like that.
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Betty has every right to look in that box. She's his WIFE. She has so far put up with his philandering, his "barely-there" form of parenting, and in season one we saw Don fly off the handle when he thought for a second that she might be flirting with another guy. This from a person who was cheating on his wife with TWO different women. In the second season he called her "desperate" for wearing a bikini to the beach, because he could not handle other men finding her sexually desirable. Again, all while he is freely banging other women on the side. It's a bit hypocritical. Considering that she's known about his propensity to fuck other women since the end of season one, she has every right at this point to look at that box. Don has failed as a husband a dozen times over, all his rights to privacy are waived.
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Betty could go right to the U.S. Army with the contents of that box, and Don/Dick would be a dead man.Desertion of your overseas post in a time of war by impersonating an officer in order to get sent home gets you a quick military court martial followed by a firing squad, all the way up to 1972. Betty just goes to the army base, explains everything to them, they fingerprint him and match it with their files for Dick Whitman, and he is a done deal for execution. If not fingerprinting, they'll just get copies of documents signed by both the original Dick and the original Don, compare them, and ask Donald Draper to sign a court document. A signature analyst will confirm what they need to know. With THAT kind of power over Don, Betty can get the house, the car, the kids, the money... everything. Provided she totally willing to fuck over Don like everyone else has this season. Teenage muggers, Connie Hilton, even Bert Cooper have all enjoyed screwing Don in the ass this season, why should Betty be any different, really?
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Don keeps her in the dark and feeds her bullshit for years. She's earned a right to be a bit whiny. Don is only a good father if you don't think treating your kids' mother with respect is a part of being a good dad.
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If Don wasn't such a scumbag in the first place, or at least played it cooler and didn't get busted, Betty wouldn't have looked in the drawer. He made her understandably on high alert. It's not right to go through people's private things but that's what happens when you realize you've been kept in the dark about some painful stuff.
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I don't know how you can say that. Don is barely there. Sure he's usually nice when he's around, but he's an absentee dad.
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Oct 28, 2009 10:10:11 AM CDT
TakingScorpiosCalls: Totally agree about the black eye...
by royston lodge
...especially considering he's already raped her at least once. I think having bad-ass, tough-as-nails, always-in-control Joan get beat-down from her fartleberry of a husband, and have her shrivel into a battered shell of her former self, would have been a fitting plot twist for the show. Also would have really set up a "compare and contrast" of Joan vs. Peggy, since Joan gave up her career for domestic life, and Peggy rejected domestic life for her career. Total missed opportunity.Bad writers! Bad! Now sit in the corner and think about what you did!
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...it would have made Don look good by comparison. "Well, at least Don doesn't beat Betty! Gosh!"
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Oct 28, 2009 10:50:51 AM CDT
January Jones's Betty Draper is the least appreciated character
by johnnyangel
Betty Draper is like a river in winter, icy on the surface but with deep powerful currents underneath. She has been raised to be quiet and subservient but she is smarter and better educated than most of the men around her. She is deeply frustrated but she doesn't know what to do. The fact that the geeks at AICN don't understand or respect Betty Draper is indiciative of their inexperience with real non-cyber women.
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Well, do that?!
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In real life, the bad-ass, tough-as-nails, always-in-control women might get the occasional beatdown from people, but rarely if EVER do they "...shrivel into a battered shell of their former self." --> They hit BACK, as evidenced by Joan smashing that vase over Captain Rapemaster's head. Violence is the only thing a sasquatch like him understands. Joan already tried the methodical, tactical and verbose approach earlier with the interview rehearsal, and you saw how well THAT went.Joan shouldn't curl up and crawl under a rock. That's not what successful women do. That is WHY they are... you know... known as the tough-as-nails, bad-ass women! =)
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Oct 28, 2009 12:49:37 PM CDT
i'm enjoying the expansion of the mad men world in S3
by therootstheroots
i find the little scenes/cutaways set on location add alot to being immersed in the shows world. i love that shot of Don in 3.11 when he got out of the car and returned home to find betty and the kids back. it reminded me of a gregory crewdson photo.
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If it's in the house, Der Frau will find it.
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At least, not anymore. She gave up on that sort of success to be Joanie Housewife. She subordinated herself to her man, and I think it would be a powerful story point to really play her subordination to a more extreme conclusion.
Not saying that ALL the women on the show should be written this way, of course. I just think it would be a shocker for the audience if it happened to Joan. -
You're right. It _is_ a bit hypocritical....of Betty, or did you forget her anonymous bar office fuck? At least Don gets to know the women he has sex with. Betty just picks random strangers. Betty lost all moral authority to get pissed off about Don's infidelity when she broke her marriage vows herself. It's called the principle of universality. It's a pretty basic moral principle, and ignoring it makes you a hypocrite. Essentially, the standards that we hold others to apply as much, if not more so, to ourselves. Here's another question for you. What if the papers inside his desk had been confidential property of Sterling Cooper and not related to Don's personal history? What if she'd seen that information, and then later carelessly leaked it in a passing conversation? What if it had been information about Peggy's pregnancy? What if she had then gone to confront Peggy about having an affair with Don, and called her baby a bastard, and Peggy a whore for sleeping with Don? If it had been anyone else's privacy at stake, you would all be condemning Betty's actions, and rightfully so, but since it's a violation of Don's space, it's perfectly fine with you. I find that attitude simply amazing.
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Actually I think that would be a pretty trite "twist" ... I like it how it is now, they're not laying it on too thick. (Sometimes Mad Men does lay it on thick, but usually it's in a good spot.) Also, I don't know what you guys mean by successful but it seems clearly apparent that being married to a surgeon is more successful than being in charge of an ad agency office. At least that's what Joan thinks. I think the basic gist of the whole Joan thing is she was powerful at Sterling Cooper in more modern terms but that wasn't her perspective, and she abdicated it for a shot with the surgeon, partially because of the whole Roger Sterling angle not working out. She wanted badly to tell the agency to fuck off, and go off and live The Life. then it turns out her husband needs as much help as the whole office she used be in charge of, plus he's an asshole.Interestingly, and I would have to agree with her, the actress who plays Joan said she didn't think EITHER of the characters involved thought the rape was a rape.
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In every case, Don's trespasses are much more extensive and damaging than Betty's, and Betty's are always initiated or in reaction to Don's. He starts the cycle with his bad behavior and she reflects it.
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But that doesn't mean it wasn't rape.
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...that she wouldn't be psychologically affected just as much as any other rape victim.
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I guess we'll find out next week.
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It's like you're not even reading what I'm writing. PRINCIPLE OF UNIVERSALITY. Hello! Anyone home? Bueller? Infidelity is infidelity, it doesn't matter if it's serial or not, whether it's with strangers, or your old high school sweet-heart. They've both fucked around, and neither has the moral right to arbitrarily punish the other for the transgression. THEY ARE BOTH AT FAULT. Arguing that Betty had the right to sleep around because Don did first is an infantile argument.
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I respect women all right. That's why it's annoying to see a beautiful lady like January Jones just sit around and sulk. You can enable her in your artificial relationship with her. In my artificial relationship with her I say "end the marriage and live your life for once. Don will manage. He's tried to leave a few times anyway."
Not understanding that means you enable women and they probably walk all over you. -
that Don had built between himself and "Dick" has been eroding this season. It was as if he was becoming the used-car salesman again. I was wondering if they had done something subtle like giving him different colored contacts. But the teacher situation was a symptom, not the whole disease. Do not think she was "the one" for those that believe in that B.S. She was just young, beautiful, and vivacious, and isn't that enough? I do think that Roger believes that Joan was "the one." But make no mistake, even if he HAD married Joan, he would still be chasing secretaries.
I understand that Don had to come clean with Betty, but the cigarette moment? That showed Betty that he had lost his "cool" (for lack of a better word) and I think in their staring contest of a marriage, he just blinked. The game has changed for her, she will wear the pants. I wonder if we will see Don devolve into Dick. Hope not. -
son was dressed as a hobo and the daughter was dressed as a princess, but hey, again that would be too predictable for this show.
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I tried looking it up, and I could not find anything about it. Can you provide a link, please?
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I've been reading Chomsky lately, so the principle is very much on my mind. Here's a quote from Chomsky that pretty much defines the subject: "In fact, one of the, maybe the most, elementary of moral principles is that of universality, that is, If something's right for me, it's right for you; if it's wrong for you, it's wrong for me. Any moral code that is even worth looking at has that at its core somehow." My point is, arguments contrary to my point do not follow the principle of universality. The reasoning presented is thus: Don has cheated on Betty and violated the assumed standards of marriage, therefore Betty is allowed to violate Don's privacy in a very, _VERY_ sensitive subject. Betty's personal motivation was, indeed, that very rationale. This ignores the fact that she has committed the same act. She lost all moral right to criticize and chastise Don's infidelity when she committed her own acts of infidelity.
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Donald Draper has shown MULTIPLE times in the past that he applies a double-standard when it comes to infidelity. His own infidelity is acceptable to him, his wife's infidelity (provided he knew about it, which he currently does not) would NOT be acceptable to him in any context, primarily because he feels as a provider for his family he should not have to compete with another alpha-male for rights to "his woman."Now the original argument started with whether or not Betty had a right to go in Don's locked desk and snoop around. You say she has NO right to go in his desk. If the situation were reversed and Betty was seeing a man on the side while Don was at work and Don suspected there was evidence of infidelity in Betty's locked desk drawer... The question posed would be "... Would Don be the kind of person to respect Betty's right to privacy and leave her desk untouched, even though there may be solid proof of her infidelity, something Donald Draper has suspected about his emotionally-distant wife for three years. Would Donald RESPECT Betty's right to privacy by not looking in the drawer?"I think for anyone who has watched this show closely, the answer would be obvious. Donald Draper would, at a moment's notice, open that drawer and find out if his wife has been two-timing him with a different man. He would not hesitate, and he would not care one iota about her right to privacy. Doesn't that (in Universality's broad terms) mean that Betty has every right to open that drawer... because Don would do the exact same to Betty if the tables were turned?
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Give me a break, no one's saying it wasn't rape. For fucks sake man
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Uh, just because you say it's the same, doesn't mean anyone has to agree with you. It's your opinion. Hello?
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No-one said Betty was "allowed" to cheat, or that she has "the right".
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Sounds like a load of horseshit btw
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I never watched the show before this season but I'm hooked. Caught an episode, watched a marathon of this seasons episodes, am going back and watching the old episodes. Someone described this show as an aquarium of sad mesmerizing people and that's exactly what it is.
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