Cool News
That AVATAR Trailer Which Arrives In Theaters Today Has Also Arrived On The Internet (In A Rorschachian Sorta Way)...
Merrick here...
There's a 3 minute (+) trailer for AVATAR hitting theaters today; it won't be online officially until next week. Except: it's already escaped onto the Internet, where it can now be seen in inglorious mud-o-vision.
Here's an embed, via Spoiler TV. Enjoy it while it lasts. Or, wait 'till you can see this bigger, clearer, sharper, louder, and more colorfuler in theaters immediately...or online on the 29th.
You can also find it over at JoBlo (HERE).
Or, it's on YouTube HERE (thanks for finding this, D. Vader!)
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It just seems to be lacking that certain sumping... Little Ani maybe?
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To be honest im still unimpressed hopefully the proper 3D version will be more impressive.
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new AVATAR trailer = far superior to the old one.
Impossible to tell with that youtube clip how good the Navi effects are but the editing of the trailer, the snippets of dialogue, are better than the last one. The story still seems a pretty hokey and heavy-handed throwback to what the cavalry did to the native americans. But the shot of the badguy sipping coffee while engaged in battle was pretty cool.
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Oct 23, 2009 10:18:05 AM CDT
No thanks, I will wait for the crystal clear version.
by mr. nice gaius
I want my eyeballs to be proper fucked.
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Nothing ever lives up to hype. Put expectations aside and it looks like one of the most inventive epic-level movies in a long, long time.
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two super powers want to force relocate an indiginous race to expolit a valuable natural resource?
and the leader falls for one of the natives?
I saw this one when it was called Star Trek: Insurrection.
Let's hope the jokes are better this time -
Guy is working for the "Man", gets sent on a mission, goes native...end of PC story.No reason to fight the big Smurfs hand to hand...stand off and Gas them from orbit...collect valuable rocks...end of story.
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Looks much better than the teaser. I think this should have been released first. Might have spawned more favorable expectations. Then again, I guess its good the teaser lowered a lot of expectations for many pple.
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that this doesnt bomb. i expect that harry will sit on the fence when he writes his review. cause he hates 20th century fox. that studio alone gave us all of camerons work. all of it and yet this studio get kicked around you wouldnt believe. I wonder will harry get to see this film or will there be a review embargo. hmmm, I wonder?
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This embed is WAY too dark. YouTube trailer is dark too, but not so much as this. http://tinyurl.com/yhxbdc2
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I think this will end up being considered a failure of sorts. Unless it has summertime blockbuster release numbers (like $100 million plus on opening weekend) I don't see how this will make an impact. I'll reserve judgement until I see it, but sadly I think Transformers 2 will remain the box office champ of this year.
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looks a little more interesting, though
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and true. Sit in the machine...nuke from a distance...fuck the Blue Meanies...Collect profits.There better be a good reason to spend all that time and money risking physical contact with these things when you could just nuke/gas/beam/irradiate the cockroaches to get rid of them....or is becomes just a silly way to move the film forward.I want to know about the story...CGI is no longer reason enough to pull the money from my wallet.
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That's the dumbed down version for stupid people right? dances with wolves in space? Love it or hate it, it's obvious there is a lot more than that going on here. You should be a fucknut suit, pal.
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Anyone else notice the Navi shots pretty much all have them wearing 'tribal paint' now.
Reckon that's been digitally added on since the 'smurf' backlash against the teaser?
'We gotta make them less blue Jim' worried studio exec.
Wouldn't suprise me! -
the omission? no abyss. I wonder why.
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have been ganbanged
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I want this NOW! It looks amazing, I barely go to the cinema anymore, but this one I will check out for sure.
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but it would have been better three months ago
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at 7/11, Pizza Hut, Wendys, Gamestop, various Bookstores.
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at gamestop, pizzahut, 7/11, wendys, and bookstores.
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I think they always had tribal paint on them.
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Adrian Brody free.
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Left over marines from past flicks
bit of jungle thrown in
giant blue ET's
lots of hype
and a large bank balance
I bet the blues win in the end. Sam does not return to the humans. And the evil 'company' man gets eaten by one of the jungle creatures.Oh and James makes lots of money and takes another 10yr holiday. -
The Abyss has never been mentioned, as far as I can remember, as one of Cameron's films when they go off the roster of his biggest hits for trailers and posters. The Titanic poster mentioned him as the director of T2, Aliens, and True Lies, as far as I can recall.
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Yeah I think this was a better second one too and they are playing this thing right I think in regards to promoting. There is still a while to go yet. What people here don't seem to realise is that there hasn't been much hype at all from the studio or film maker. It's the dicks here that have created it and then moan about it. This trailer has more than enough info to get me there opening day.
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i've been sceptical about this whole thing in a big way, mainly cos i cant stand how arrogant cameron is, so i was kinda hoping it would fail to bring him back down to earth... but that looks fucking great
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Talkbacker with no clue.
Conspiracy hit the fucking nail on the head with 'Dances With Wolves' - that's EXACTLY what this looks like - even more so with this second trailer.
Shut the fucknut up 'pal'. -
Oct 23, 2009 10:33:28 AM CDT
WHY DOES SMURFETTE LOOK DIFFERENT THAN IN THE CARTOON ???
by president baltar
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I'm pretty sure they're not just nuking them or gassing them from orbit bc they don't want to just commit "genocide". They want to relocate them at first it seems. And by the looks of it, one of the battle plans seems to involve burning the whole place down and bringing the jungle down onto their heads. Which made for a pretty epic shot in the 3D 16 minute screening back in August (was it August?).
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Seriously. WHAT THE FUCK
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And, and... doesn't the story seem like Dances With Wolves?
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"...I mean...this is our land!!!" I'm still looking forward to this even though the premise seems somewhat obvious. Not crazy about the music in that trailer, though. And the Na'vi speak English? Okay. Still looks good, though, I say.
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It's dumb promoting 101. You don't put up the title of the movie that made the less money no matter how fantastic it is. I'd have it along side Terminator and ALiens myself, but then again i'm not head of Press and Promotion. Ask conspiracy. He seems to know how the suits think.
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Can't wait for the 3-D version of Hexxus.
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TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOM!!!! Coming this Winter- BRAVESMURFCAT!
But in all seriousness, I'm going to be seeing this opening weekend. Looks epic, and I didn't need the Chorus of the Apocalypse to know that (fucking trailer music!!!!). -
Didn't watch it, but saw the other trailer with Zombieland. Looked terrible. So happy I never even entertained the idea of falling for this hype.
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hopefully some good characters can make it worth it. If it's just pixels of a jungle and funny looking creatures that are supposed to keep us interested than i'll be pretty disappointed. it'd be just another king kong
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conspiracy doesn't need you making him look anymore stupid than he already is and you have your own battles here to deal with. Get your nose out and mind your own bees wax, babe.
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It means you are old. Go back and watch Lost in Space reruns or something. WTF is Dances with Wolves some old Kevin Kostner movie or something?
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For adding your comments to a story of which you admittedly didn't read (or in this case, watch), just to add your pithy remarks regarding the first teaser? Grow a sack and watch the new trailer. Then come back and add your opinion.
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If you cant just sit back and relax and enjoy this MASTERPIECE of a trailer, then I dont know why you even claim to love movies...
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...draws comparisons to Iraq and Haliburton. Valuable natural resource, non-technological but morally-equal natives sit on top of it, send in the gyrenes and grab the resource and blow the fuck out of anybody that complains about it. Like most of Cameron;s movies, there's an absolutely ruthless, souless corporate entity behind the worst of what's going on...
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Oct 23, 2009 10:43:12 AM CDT
I don't think I can come to this site anymore until weeks after
by mjdeviant
this movie comes out. There's been so much unnecessary hype, so much bashing and praising, this site will never recover until next year. Not that it's that great comment-wise in the first place, but it will be ridiculous around this movie release.
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but the story is so old moths flew out of the speakers on my laptop.And No TB'er with no name...there ISN'T a lot more going on here from what we see on the trailer. A Busted up Marine is promised legs for helping find a way to move these thundersmurfs so big BAD corp can get pretty gray rocks, goes on the mission, has a turn of heart, develops a furry fetish and falls for one of the Na'vi, probably convinces some other marines to help him out, sacrifices promised legs to help out natives...raises Pandorafirst flag over smoking Marine helicopters...cue credits. Pretty...but I've heard this story before.
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for maximal pleasure from crappy cam http://tinyurl.com/yjkx7ub (watch for spaces)
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"What you mean OUR land, gringo? You're not from around here, Holmes...you fucking poser."
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That had me laughing my ass off.... It may not be tru, but they said the mineral that we are fucking over the Navi for is called....> UNOBTANIUM.
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Check out the original teaser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBmuhV0vmLQ
Then check out this re-make:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Qp8rlHbYU&feature=player_embedded -
The 3D really does make it look better (at least to me)
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Oct 23, 2009 10:46:23 AM CDT
How many times did Worthington's accent change in 3 minutes?
by the real mcclane
Is he Australian in this movie or American? Wha?
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COLONEL QUARITCH WILL GET YOUR ASSES AND THEY WILL BE HIS !
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Because its a story as old as time. This is what we as humans do. I won't criticize it as some "Dance With Wolves" ripoff when this has happened throughout all of human history, and will most likely continue to happen as well.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=7MAYrF1PDks
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Disappointing coming from Cameron.
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Oct 23, 2009 10:48:57 AM CDT
Say, do you think Worthington's character will stay in his avata
by spyguy
And will he give everything up to be with his Na'vi girlfriend? Add it up, it all spells DUH.
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Is Samatar calling it "our land!". Unless he's somehow convinced the Na'vi that he's really one of them, from another tribe on the planet perhaps.
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...this would look pretty kick ass. The plot would look dangerously cliche, but I'd be excited to see it.I'm going to go in with that attitude.
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Can. Not. Wait!
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cant wait for the official,hd version.
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Talkbacker with no name. Get a life. Get a name. Get the fuck outta here.
You're talking so much shit you need to wear a bib. -
I rarely see a movie opening day (The Dark Knight and State of Play are the last times I can think of doing so), me and my MEADOWECHLORIANS (that's what I call my friends, because they're in my blood and some people think they're cool and some people think they ruin my mystique ;) ) usually wait the day after or maybe even the weekend after when people we ACTUALLY KNOW have seen a fliq have given their eberts on it. This film is a fence sitter for sure; unless someone I know gives it the go I'll wait til jim cam does Battle Angel Alita or something.
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just to have reason to file a suit against Cameron for forced Ocular copulation. But no matter what happens to my EYES...this story as it is being revealed here is not in anyway new, revolutionary, or compelling.
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in which the youtube trailer helps a lot, the movie may be a very entertaining one. But it's "iconic" status that it will achieve will be more due to the "JC gone 3D" reason rather than the "it's fucking epic" reason.
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The vids AICN posted were very fuzzy and low quality, but the animation is much clearer in your mirror (I think I can make out the hand-drawing)
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He considers himself one of the Na'vi once he goes undercover and sees the beauty of it all or they accept him into the tribe or something. If that's the only problem you have, then it's a safe bet you are going to love the shit out of this movie.
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...staying on the planet and his body forgotten somewhere in limbo. Big happy ending, and then in the epilogue his big blue avatar just drops dead when an electrical storm finally terminates the download...or a busboy trips on the power cord. THE END
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...while his Avatar is on Na'vi, I'm guessing someone will try to kill his dormant Earth body to stop the rebellion. This will most likely be a weak, weasly character...I'm guessing Giovanni Ribisi. This will be similar to the scene from the Matrix when they attempt to kill Keanu, "The One", by killing his dormant body. Someone on Earth will come to Worthington's rescue at the last minute.
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that's what it is. You can already see the entire plot practically. Another plot we've all been through before. hooray.
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It is his right as an anonymous citizen of the tubes to talk smack...just like the rest of us.
nothing brings site hits like feud seeking raving lunatics...and God knows Harry needs the ad revenue. -
Its the only part of the trailer that rings false to me, since we have no real context for the scene. Either he's convinced himself its his land too, or he's pretending to be a real Na'vi. Or he's done something super-special to be considered a leader amongst their tribe, bc him giving such a speech just seems weird to me.
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It's not the story that will make the movie great...It's the story teller...I've seen the 15 minutes in 3-d and it is visually amazing..
I have faith in Jim or Mij to tell an amazing story..Which is what we all want..No? -
Oct 23, 2009 10:56:04 AM CDT
...his body should end up forgotten...a happy ending but...
by flickapoo
...ambiguous. Will he run out of Nutrimix? Will his bedsores get infected? Will the cleaning lady pull the plug?
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...or a small independent film, the ticket price is the same. You don't have to pay a percentage of the budget. Isn't that grand? So when you see this movie on opening weekend, put away your pocket calculators.
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has anybody else seen the Bruce Campbell- and Renee O'Connor-starring ALIEN APOCALYPSE?? The concept didn't work very well there either.
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Perhaps some were asleep when it was mentioned that JAMES CAMERON made this joint. Now I don't know what's malfunctioning in alot of you, but that carries a hell of alot of weight as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah, its an old story, and one that seems predictable. But then, most movies today are. Especially horror films. I enjoy the journey usually more than the surprises, though it really depends on the kind of film and the storytelling skill involved.
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Does anyone else think that the shitty quality actually makes the CGI more convincing?
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...along with the ark.
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That film only had like 15 extras to work with. Not so "epic".
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Love how they name all of CAMERON's fims...this trailer will sell the masses.
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Oct 23, 2009 10:58:19 AM CDT
BTW MY EYEBALLS CAN ONLY BE LAW & ORDER SVU'D AT THEATRES......
by meadowe
For some Reason I can experience the 3d of Superman Returns, Captain EO, even the suckfest Final Destination 4 in theatres, but when im at home TRYING to watch Family Guy Blue Harvest in 3d all I see is blue and red or in CORALINE's case, blue and magenta. Anyone know why this is?
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Your points:
1. the story DOESN'T matter
2. the VISUALS are great
3. therefore the STORY will be great because it's James Cameron, even though we've just been told the story and it's stupid.
Are you retarded? -
trailer a few hours ago in another topic,even before this topic was opened.
so i want my contribution to be recognized,dammit.no just kidding,i am only glad that this trailer finally shows how awesome this movie is going to be.YOU HEAR ME YOU HATERS? -
If this ends like DANCES WITH WOLVES then it'll climax with the Navi scoring an unlikely military win against the humans, and then re-locating their village because they know they won the battle but can't win the war. A bittersweet victory.
Any takers on that bet? -
Would it be ok to call Sam's character a Race-Traitor? Picking aliens over your own race is pretty low, even if the humans are acting terribly, metaphors aside and all.
I'm also guessing they will say they can't nuke since it will somehow damage the minerals they are seeking.
People have been pretty good at conquering lands and cruelly subjugating indigenous populations for a few thousand years, this is kind of an old story....
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Not sure if its going to work like that in Avatar. I think Worthington downloads into the Avatar rather than controls it from his unconcious body, so if they were to kill his human self it would not effect his Avatar....i think
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So what? For those of you saying this over and over again, what's your point? That it can't be great because it lifts heavy plot elements from another movie/story?
The Road Warrior = Shane in the future
Star Wars = Hidden Fortress (plus some other Kurosawa) in space
A Fistful of Dollars = Yojimbo in the old west
O Brother, Where Art Thou? = The Odyssey in the deep south
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Maybe you're cock-eyed...pardon the pun....what with the eyeball penetration and whatnot.
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Better yet...have his avatar machine shut down due to world wide power shortage;..one he created when he helped deny access to the little gray rocks they used to power the power plant.
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Oh, cool. I hope that's the case. But if they download him into the Na'vi, I'm not sure why Colonel Scratchy Face would promise his legs back...unless he plans on uploading back into his old body. They could grow him a genetically similar 18 year old version of himself. Either way, I hope they don't have the whole "kill the dormant man" thing going on.
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wow, can't wait. that and being finished my fucking Masters finally... man, end of Dec. is going to be epic!
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Maybe it ends with them all in Navi concentration camps.
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ok, shitty CGI, check.
redundant played-out story, check.
lame font for main title that looks like it was created in Quark in 1992, check.
oh, and can we get that Enya Greatest Hits CD worked into the trailer as well? CHECK. -
Oct 23, 2009 11:05:33 AM CDT
conspiracy...I did that in a Chili's restaurant as a kid...
by flickapoo
...first day, walked into the break room, slipped the freshly mopped floor...slid the entire length of the room...feet shot up and hit this giant lever on the breaker box.Entire restaurant plunged into darkness...sign in the parking lot, parking lot lights, dining room floor, kitchen...total blackout.I was a hero.
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When Navi Sam does the nasty with the Navi babe does 'dormant man' splooge?
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No, at the end of the epic battle they will wake up and realize that JR was never shot it was just all a bad dream.
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And this looks ambitious. I really hope it's as cracking as it seems from this trailer.
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ewwwwwwww.
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..oh my bad, it hasn't been done in 3D yet. That's what makes it different. yeah... right.
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I did not enjoy O BROTHER WHERE ART THOU, but only an idiot would say it wasn't vastly different from the actual ODYSSEY, whereas this is DANCES practically word for word, just change the set decorations to green screens.
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The all powerful USA wanted to nuke Vietnam,but eventually they didnt do it,because of the fear of the foreign and national outcry.
I believe Cameron will use something similar to explain the story hole u mentioned. -
and didn't even have the goddamn common courtesy to give me a reach-around.
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The movie looks pretty interesting and I will probably go see it, but the Negative Nancy in me just doesn't see it becoming a commercial success/blockbuster. I think it is too much of a niche film and it will need word of mouth due to the 3-D to get the mega ticket sales. I could be very wrong, but I just don't see people lining up to see this film. My prediction is $175-200 million tops domestic gross.
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No but I am near sighted (a geek that says she's nearsighted, oh shiiiiiiiit!) I remember as a kid they were playing some olg film on tv in 3d and it wouldn't work for me, so because there was a slot you could put prescription glasses in it I thought if I could put someone's glasses in it would work, but no dice. I'm sure I'll be able to see BLUE GIRAFFES WITH MULLETS just fine (if real live people tell me to give it a go) I just wish I could relive the experience at home. I thought about swiping IMAX's or my local theatre's 3d shades but always chiqen out @ the last moment.
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Oct 23, 2009 11:09:22 AM CDT
Cobra--Kai, this isn't fucking Lost!
by player_two_has_entered_the_game
We get it. You don't think this will be any good. Change the record please! Oh and quit it with the dances with wolves thing already. It's got more tired than your poor karate kid reference. Martin Kove you are not or ever be.
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Much more excited to see this than I was when I saw the first teaser.
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Big difference: I'm pretty sure the big blue people don't adhere to a religion that wants the rest of the universe to convert or.... die. But other than that, I can see the similarities.
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Avatar Day Ruled. That trailer is much better than the teaser. Everything about it looks fucking exciting. I'm pumped. Even if Sam Worthington is incredibly lame.
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You read the script? Do tell! I'd forgotten the US military sent Dunbar out into the West to integrate himself with the Native Americans and spy on them. Also forgot he was a cripple.
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The "hinge character" is Sgt. Scarhead...as we can see, Worthsmurf is already talking Captain Sassy Latina around to seeing that the Hoomans are treating the Smurfs like shit.
Scarhead probably dumps Corporate Dick (the Ribisi character) on his ass ("You...you just follow orders, buddy...wha? AAAAAUUUGHHH!), then contacts Earth President Goodfellow to let them know that Smurfs are people, too, and the Earth Gummint cancels their contract with Dickhead International.
Earlier in the movie, of course, Worthsmurf becomes so impassioned with the plight of the Smurfs, he does a highly dangerous, irreversible mind-dump into his Smurf body. His old, paralyzed, vegged-out body lingers a bit, then dies, but by then he's getting some primo Smurfette pussy, oh yeah, giggity giggity.
The End. Print this out and find out how right I am on opening weekend... -
Well, they are rolling out a new line of TV's with 3D capability to coincide with the eventual release of this film on DVD in the coming years, so maybe you'll have better luck.
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of course its an old story. told new. as it ever repeats with big themes. last movie i saw that used the same theme was district 9.
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No! This is SPARTA!!!
We are... LYCANS!!!
I am... BEOWULF!!!
KAAAAAAAHHHHHHHNNNNNNNNN!!! -
Oct 23, 2009 11:13:45 AM CDT
Sorry, still think this has modest success written all over it.
by gabba-uk
The most impressive thing in that trailer is the list of films he's made in the past. And having UP! in 3D recently, the only thing 3D is going to usher it is a stellar increase in aspirin sales...
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is she the Heartless Corporate shill who has a change of heart, the feisty scientist who is disgruntled seeing her invention used for "bad", or the angst ridden lover of the commander who walks out on him after trying, and failing, to change his duty bound soul?
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The "unobtainium" turns out to have nothing to do with Earth's energy crisis, or can even be manufactured on Earth. The company has some other profit-driven goal in mind, like building condos on Smurf land.
I got this plot nailed, sho nuff. -
...another fucking movie ruined by an over revealing trailer. Story looks boring actually...usual love interest, conflicts between orders and moral obligations etc...*yawn* someone turn the light off as they leave Hollywood...
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...You know damn well it's all three.
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Ok, I will be in line forking out cold hard cash for this movie, but can someone tell me if a Eco-Movie has ever done well at the box office? I fear the 'We rape the earth and it's peoples (in space!)' visual metaphor will hamstring this movie.
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Looks crap by the way...
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Wall-E.
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by Truman for suggesting it to stop the Chinese/Korean advance. Couldn't do it in Vietnam due to commercial interests in the north such as the Michelin plant outside of Saigon. But I know what you are saying.Don't see that happening here...too big a plot hole...but we'll see when this fucker opens, I'll be there with all of you...eyeball lube in hand as I like an easy entry.
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Because unlike Blue Giraffes with Mullets Samsung HAS already proven to LAW & ORDER SVU MY EYEBALLS. My family is getting one of those ultra skinny Samsung LED tv's soon that REALLY UPSCALES DVD's to damn near blu ray quality around Blaq Friday to Christmas. Btw anyone hear about tv's the industry is working on that you can roll up like a poster? I heard that from someone months back and I thought that would be really coo' and I can see that within the next 20 years or so.
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...but James Cameron has a deal with Panasonic to develop TVs specifically for the eventual release of Avatar on disc...but I believe Samsung and Sony are coming out with 3D models, too.
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for James Cameron movies. There's nothing in the film I'm honestly interested in seeing. I really want to see the Princess And The Frog.
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Keith David. And Lance Henriksen.
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In Space! Or The Emerald Forest, with aliens and robosuits!
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I wouldn't care... Still like the trailer mentions, his best movies are all 15-25 years old...
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LOL. Okay.
Find me some lines in that trailer that trialer that are almost word for word the same as in Dances. Go ahead. I'll be waiting.
And I'm an idiot for thinking O Brother is as similar to Homer as Avatar is to Dances? O Brother has a protagonist with the same name as The Odyssey. Oracle? Check. Sirens? Check. Cyclops? Check. Should I keep going? -
what the fuck am I smoking?
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but the marines could probably just nuke the navi from orbit...but then there wouldn't be a movie.
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This trailer is so fucking AWESOME, James Cameron is back BIG TIME. That pussy Micahel Bay can eat shit because Cameron is the god of action films again! I know Cameron, Fox and his producers are reading these talkbacks, so I say GREAT FUCKING JOB WITH THIS NEW TRAILER GUYS!!!! Put this trailer on every big movie until AVATAR's release and big up the female aspects. This should gross mega box-office numbers and make Cameron the god SPIELBERG is. Mr. Cameron, please give Schwarzenegger a role in BATTLE ANGEL, AVATAR 2 and any future contemporary action films you make in the future. You two were the two greatest action team in the 90's!
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and the Avatar haters are now grasping at straws. "Looks cool...but it's a motheaten plot"; unconvincing hipster 'mehhh' blase nonsense; etc, etc. They all want this movie to tank so badly, but it won't. Quite why anyone would want this to tank, I don't know; could these people be anymore joyless? Quite frankly, if this doesn't best Transformers 2 at the box office it proves that big budget blockbuster cinema is in the fucking toilet. That trailer is rip-roaring, epic level stuff. An 'unoriginal' plot? Perhaps. I couldn't care less. Don't give me tricksy bullshit, give me a good classical story, a hero's journey, well told. There's nothing new under the sun. And the art of blockbuster storytelling has been lost. Avatar will be the remedy. There was more emotion in that 3 minute trailer than in all the summer blockbusters of the past decade put together, save the rare exceptions like LOTR. Kick ass action that will actually be coherent, character driven and genuinely exciting. Beautiful visuals, not tacky robot junk farting across the screen with all the finesse of the inside of somebody's spin dryer. Completely visionary stuff.Oh, and The Abyss SHOULD have been included amongst Cameron's roster of movies. That's my one complaint with the trailer. It was his one movie that wasn't a big success, but it's pretty well known and pretty darn great.
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but I think I suffer from SFX overload/indifference. Regardless, this thing is going to play in 3D, & that rules the school. Beowulf in 3D was great, Avatar will probably make Beowulf look like Ghost.
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In-joke-o-rama!
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Even all muddy like that.
Opening day, here I come. -
like they say in the trailer, that means there are gay Thundersmurfs, right?
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...it's whether you're pitcher or catcher.
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This plot has been the basis for 40% of the original STAR TREK series-- but with less blue...
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...that's fair if you don't like it, but try to be more creative if you want to seem funny instead of retarded. Thundersmurfs, Dancing with Wolves, Fern Gully....these things have been beaten into the ground as jokes/examples. Come up with some creative insights with your criticisms.
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Oct 23, 2009 11:45:38 AM CDT
I'M OKAY WITH THE DANCES WITH WOLVES IN SPACE ANGLE
by bringingsexyback
Some stories are timeless, and need to be retold - lest we forget our humanity and submit to a cold, soulless future.
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Fuck that.
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Oct 23, 2009 11:46:44 AM CDT
Trailer fantastic till the smurfs showed up
by the_juicy_box_of_megan_fox
Everything about this trailer had me itching to see it until the smurfs showed up. Then it turned into some expensive-looking Saturday morning cartoon. The story is so tired, any hack could have vomited it out in about an hour.
I've gone from "see it opening day" to "see it when I have the time" as more stills/information/footage has been released. -
"Cobra--Kai, this isn't fucking Lost!"
Player_Two_has_entered_the_game, you'll have to explain that one to me cos I don't understand the reference. But I do like your name - very cool!
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Are you sure Worthsmurf is getting "pussy"? I mean, how certain are we these aliens even have that. For all we know he could be getting some primo "xixsnarth". Xixsnarth being a probiscus that pops out of the smurfette's ears to tickle Worthsmurf's "kli'thnak".
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AVATAR is so goddam EPIC in size and scope and action, who better than JAMES CAMERON to direct CRUSADE at Fox. Schwarzenegger owns the friggin rights to the script and movie, so Jim and Arnie can finally bring Arnie's dream project to life. Fuck Ridley Scott's boring KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, Cameron will make an epic worthy of GLADIATOR and BRAVEHEART if he accepts the challenge and shoot a medevil epic like CRUSADE as one of his next projects. Hell, Cameron can put BATTLE ANGEL to the back of his list of future epic films and do CRUSADE next with Arnold. If I remember correctly, there was a comedic side kick type character in the Walon Green CRUSADE script, so maybe Arnie and Jim can cast Tom Arnold in the role (think True Lies great funny partner) and put him in CRUSADE. Mr. Cameron, Arnie...your pal...owns CRUSADE, why not direct it and prove that you can outgross GLADIATOR at the box-office and in epic action scene scope???!!!
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and pay down California's debt.
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Actually I have to say imho DANCES WITH WOLVES is a BRILLIANT movie. Particularly the extended version of it.
If AVATAR turns out to be 75% as good as that film then it'll be well worth seeing. -
Oct 23, 2009 11:52:43 AM CDT
ABKING: "FUCK RIDLEY SCOTT'S BORING KINGDOM OF HEAVEN"
by bringingsexyback
That's the most toolish statement I have ever read in my life.
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the upcoming Dune remake will be in 3D. Nothing like subjugating an entire population for a little go-juice.
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...and put them all to work making CRUSADE.Anything else you just be fucking distracting.
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Oct 23, 2009 11:55:38 AM CDT
I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE YOU GUYS ELECTED CONAN AS GOVERNOR
by bringingsexyback
Idiots.
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I had the good fortune to stumble upon it recently. Would have been brilliant. Arnold would have had a sure fire one two punch following True Lies (Crusade would have come out summer '95). A real missed opportunity - alas, I think Arnold is too old for the role now. Verhoeven would have had a field day with the material - some outrageous gore, explicit sex scenes, and religion baiting.As for Tom Arnold as the sidekick, Ari - no, just no. You'll see why if you have read the script.
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I mean, it makes the plot much clearer and this actually looks like it might turn into a pretty nice sci-fi film. Some gringe worth (I mean really. They AREN'T in Kansas anymore?) dialog aside, I'm now cautiously optimisitic about Avatar.
I just hope this isn't too environment in your face preachy of how the western civilization is soo eevil and how all those native tribes are like million times more in thouch with the planet and all. -
We're a month from worldwide release and still the hype-machine is silent. Either this is going to be a game-changing colossus of a movie that will blow us all away, or we're looking at this year's 'Speed Racer'.Place your bets, ladies...
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I'm so there opening day, with glasses on and popcorn buttered.
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The story makes me roll my eyes. Soo... The Smurf village is on top of the mineral vein, we have the capacity to communicate with them and offer them resources/technology/whatever they might want... And the 'Only' recourse is to shoot the shit out of them? Retarded storytelling at its best... That said, it will be a great flick to just enjoy--- Easily the most epic piece of visual cinema in a while.
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sheep.
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baaaahhhh
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...the native population be just a bunch of pricks for once. I don't shop at Wall-Mart, and I hate giant soulless corporations as much or more than the next guy.I suppose APOCALYPTO sort of did that.
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BSB, me too but i'm going in with a welding mask on. Better safe than sorry.
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is a word that scientists and engineers have used for years to describe rare or difficult to find materials or substances. you may think it sounds like a bad pun, but it's pretty widely used in the scientific community.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium -
Oct 23, 2009 12:02:54 PM CDT
Can't judge the tech based on that muddy picture, but still not
by redmond
Eh...Still playing like another 'guy goes native' story. Expected something...deeper and more original, I guess. I could go the rest of my life and not hear someone give a rallying speech to the troops and be perfectly happy.
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...are all saints. It's ridiculous and maybe even offensive. People are people...for the most part you get the same cool person to prick ratio anywhere you go.
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Thanks for reminding me to watch Dances. It's been collecting dust on the shelf for years. And odd, for me, cuz I like Costner.
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With SMURRRRRRFS!!!!! IN SPAAAAACE!!!
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i havent heard about this before.
any link for the Crusade script? -
for the love of fuck, how bloody impatient are people that they can't wait 6 days to see something that doesn't look like it was filmed from a camera phone out of someone's ass? Who looks at these clips and says "good enough to post?" waa waa waa, gotta see it right now! Give it up, children, go back to your rooms and wait like a big boy.
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Oct 23, 2009 12:06:01 PM CDT
Flick, what's your point? Some prick Jews deserved the Holocaust
by yackbacker
No, that's not your point, because to suggest so would be pretty fucking atrocious.
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is one of those movies that they don't include because, according to the suits, "ma and pa Smith" don't know that movie from Adam. But the reality is, I've heard more regular, non-movie nerd types talk about how they saw that movie on cable and it blew them away and to anyone that hasn't seen it, even my parents are like, "You've never seen The Abyss?!"
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Talkbacker name from Sean of the Dead?
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Ya know, "The Last Airbender"? Any news on that flick. I recently was urged to watch the DVDs of the 'toon, and when I did it turned out to be a cool show. The movie has some Lord of the Rings meets Harry Potter kind of potential. I hope Shamayaylaya can pull it off.
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...doesn't make you a saint. Nobody deserves the holocaust...prick or pollyanna, makes no difference.
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Oct 23, 2009 12:10:01 PM CDT
I don't know why everyone is acting so surprised....
by generaljackcosmo
Cameron compared this film to Dances With Wolves in an interview in EW TWO YEARS AGO. He said it had many classic story elements lifted from Dances, The Emerald Forest, and many other "going native" stories, and was also heavily inspired by the early pulp planetary romances like A Princess of Mars and other Burroughs stuff. It was always intended to be a "going native" story, and it was always intended to be a throwback to pulp proto-SF.
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They ARE attempting to communicate with them and hope to relocate them, but obviously things aren't going well, which culminates in the decision to "blow the shit out of them". Its very obviously NOT their first choice.
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Oct 23, 2009 12:10:52 PM CDT
I don't know why everyone is acting so surprised....
by generaljackcosmo
Cameron compared this film to Dances With Wolves in an interview in EW TWO YEARS AGO. He said it had many classic story elements lifted from Dances, The Emerald Forest, and many other "going native" stories, and was also heavily inspired by the early pulp planetary romances like A Princess of Mars and other Burroughs stuff. It was always intended to be a "going native" story, and it was always intended to be a throwback to pulp proto-SF.
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Looks amazing.
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...taken over by a more powerful group to be exploited for resources...but if you are the victim of that shitty situation too often movies make you out to be a perfect victim saint. And that's jut another way of reducing a person to a stereotype.
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That Verhoeven was developing in the late 90s. It involved, as I recall, Arnie as a criminal who was to be put to death, but while in prison he burned an image of the cross into his back and people became convinced it was a sign from God that he was to lead soldiers into battle during the Crusades. Unfortunately, the project somehow fell apart. This is around the same time Ridley Scott was developing "I Am Legend" with Arnie as the star. I seem to remember Arnie choosing to go with the End of Days thriller... "End of Days" instead, and the other projects died.
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That we've seen it so many times before, it's the porn equivalent to the school girl fantasy-- it's a cliche at this point. Now, that doesn't mean I still can't get off to the school girl/teacher pornos, but the girls need to be Faye Valentine-caliber hot for me to climax. So, Jimmy Cameron, you best be having some Faye Valentine-caliber sci-fi shit going on in this movie.
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Shown all the best bit and told us the whole story... i won't be paying to watch filler.
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Where is THE ABYSS in that listing of movies?
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...everything.
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interesting.its a pity they never went with it.
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Oct 23, 2009 12:16:50 PM CDT
I think A Princess of Mars was Cameron's biggest influence...
by d.vader
On this story.
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Poor foolish Motoko.
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Please hurry up with the proper shiny one!
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Cowboy Bebop version. Though real-life version aint bad (I just expected a real-life Faye Valentine).
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What movie in the history of film has been a success where the humans are the enemy? Let's assume Worthington is a good guy and he helps the Smurf people. Is the general sheep public really going to root for the blue thingees? What blockbuster has humans being defeated by the aliens? Even if the humans are bad.
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weeks away from shooting, stupidly decided to pull the plug due to a skyrocketing budget, and instead went with Cutthroat Island, that shitty pirate film, which was one of the biggest flops of all time and instead bankrupted the company. The Crusade script is great - it illustrates the stupidity of studio heads that they could not see this would have been a smash and would have easily recouped its budget. And perhaps Arnold's career would have stayed on top through the late 90's. Scott's I Am Legend with Arnold was also canned because it was getting too expensive. Also of note, there is a script online for a movie called With Wings As Eagles, which would have starred Arnold as an Austrian commando during WW2, fighting off hordes of SS troops. Also a terrific script that would have kept Mr. S on top during the mid-late 90's. Don't know why that one was canned. It's a pity that all these potentially great movies never came to pass-clearly the idiots are running the asylum, as if we didn't already know.
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Yes we've seen this story 100 times, probably closest in Star Trek: Insurrection and Dances with Wolves, but I don't care! What little facial animation I can glean looks fantastic.
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I think it's a pretty safe bet that the only time the public feels connected to a movie is when they connect with their own species. Unless of course, humans are not involved at all.
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Cameron's magnum opus,they should put only this in his trailer credits and ignore the rest of his filmography.
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BSB, you not seen DANCES WITH WOLVES before?
You're in for a treat, you'll love it. -
If he's on the human ship projecting himself into the avatar a la The Matrix, why don't they just pull the plug when he starts leading the revolt?
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David Hughes - I think it was "Tales From Development Hell," a great read. On Amazon. In it they detail the plot and pre-production process. It would be great, except KOH has already come out and I think, made Crusade redundant. Sadly it has to remain a bygone product of an old time. The book also has lots of details on how the studios raped Gaiman's Sandman.
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it's so fucking painfully obvious. And that trailer was fun. I was honestly worried about how it would sound with the Navi speaking, but I've got no problems. This looks like a very fun epic. Something, we rarely get (last one was...The Dark Knight maybe? If that doesn't count then LOTR).
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...or temporarily permanent download.
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I really want to see this badly in high-def, or at least not so dark. Also trailer music in the first half was so over-played. But the images were nice. And action looked badass.
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I was talking to a writer friend of mine and we agreed that the plot looks a little creaky but we're okay with that because it's just a kick-ass pulp story meshed with great effects.If this had been written in the 1920s by, say, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Scully would have "found my soul transferred into a strange body" by some kind of steampunk gadgets or gas or SOMETHING.Some of those images could be painted onto an AMAZING STORIES cover and nobody would skip a beat. This looks like it's going to be an awesome movie.Say what you will about Cameron but that son-of-a-bitch swings for the fences!
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Damn, that takes me back to late 90's AICN. I remember being really excited about those 3 Arnie titles that were in development. All sounded radically different from the typical "Eraser" style films Arnie was starting to work with. Forgot about the WWII flick. Sounded fantastic. Everything seemed so much better and was more optimistic back then. Shame all 3 projects fell apart. Arnie would still be a star. Action movie star I mean, and wouldn't have faltered with 6th Day and Collateral Damage crap.
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My thoughts exactly.
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I can't help but laugh at everyone's criticisms...you people are NEVER satisfied. Some people have a serious grudge against Cameron and his success and want nothing more then for this movie to fail. It's obvious most people who talked loads of shit about the first trailer have too much pride to actually admit how fucking awesome this looks.
If all you see when you watch the trailer is "Dances with Wolves" in space, then it's obvious proof of your narrow minded thinking. It's a timeless story told in kick-ass sci-fi fashion, and I'd rather have that then some ridiculous sci-fi concept that is complex for the sake of being complex. But really though, other then basic themes, Avatar as NOTHING in common with it, and most other similar movies. The Avatar concept alone adds a completely fresh aspect to the movie, and if that were all it had going for it, it would still be fucking awesome. Add epic battles, creatures, villains, etc, etc, and it keeps getting better and better.
It's time to face the facts that James Cameron never slips up, and all of you who doubt him are doing nothing more then prepping yourself for the ass fucking of a lifetime. Cameron wins again, like usual...response for this trailer all over the web is INSANE. People are gonna flock to this film like it's the second coming of Christ. If you haters stop acting like 5 year old girls maybe you can learn to enjoy something for once.
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That would just be weird. What's the range on that thing anyway? This isn't the Matrix.
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I own the CRUSADE script and it is brilliant! I can't remember Ari much, just that he was with Arnold's HAGAN character. I need to read it again. It's been 10 years since I dusted it off. Cameron is the perfect filmmaker for it. Verhoeven too but Arnie and Jim are tight so Cameron should get it now. About KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, it's not bad but it's a movie to watch once. Or then it's a BORE FEST. I also have the script for the WWII epic WITH WINGS AS EAGLES. Brilliant script but I've given up hope on it ever getting made with Arnold. I use to push and push and promote that script. But with Arnie in a NAZI movie, it will scare him off. Don't know why he doesn't say fuck it and do a WWII Nazi action film to prove he has balls ballls. But since Arnie owns the rights to CRUSADE thanks to Carolco owing him 15 million at the time, that medevil epic can still have hope.Go to this CRUSADE link here...http://www.thearnoldfans.com/movies/crusade/crusade.htm
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Oct 23, 2009 12:35:00 PM CDT
at least they're not using the papyrus font anymore.
by rene_belloq_12inch_figure
who the fuck is the graphic designer, should get fired.
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You are defending this film as being different from Dances With Wolves and all you can do is point out that this protagonist has a physical disability is sent to be a SPY before he falls in love with the delicate, beautiful, in-touch-with-the-earth native community. Thank you for winning the argument on my behalf.
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Please read my plot prediction halfway down the TB...
The military guys are being duped by the corporate guys, but they see the error of their ways...also, I'm positive a bunch of these military guys are Blackwater-style douchebags anyway, so no big loss.
I'm a good little leftist, but man, is this plot predictable... -
that movie would have been great,if it was made.do u have any link for the script? i need to read this thing.
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I'm certainly no Cameron-hater, and I expect this to be worth the $15 admission or whatever the hell I have to pay to see it on an IMAX screen. I'm simply irked that Cameron couldn't give us a less cliché story to underlie what is obviously going to be a visual feast. If you think that's too harsh, you're more than a fanboy.
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Actually, what I was doing was pointing out the irony of someone saying "only an idiot would say it (O Brother) wasn't vastly different from the actual ODYSSEY" while also claiming that AVATAR "is DANCES practically word for word," when that person has NOT read the script or seen the movie. Pot calling the kettle... black?
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How about we all meet back here at the turn of New Year, look at the box-office and see who won the war of predictions?Me, I think this will open massive and fall on it's arse pretty soon afterwards. Time will tell, eh?
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Even the trade press have gotten hold of it now. Way to go, fellow TB'ers!
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Dunbar was NOT sent to the frontier to be a spy. I was being sarcastic. At least know what you're talking about.
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....which after the teaser trailer being so fucking awful is no mean feat - kudos, Mr Cameron. That second trailer is far better and I can barely see what's going on, so I am now a teeny bit stoked for the high res version next week. It does look pretty great actually. Colour me a turncoat. Starting to look forward to this.
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the story? because you should already know,after 10000 years of human evolution and civilization progress,that you can tell THE SAME FUCKING STORY WITH UNLIMITED DIFFERENT WAYS.
So i repeat my question: The specific story from the specific movie Avatar is cliche,or the archetypal idea,which the avatar story tries to tell about,is cliche?? whats the case?
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they left out "Piranha II" as well
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...behind the scenes. I know it was over budget but I didn't know the details...Cameron must have shit his pants with relief when it went on to be the success it was.
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No joking!
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Oct 23, 2009 12:47:25 PM CDT
If someone says "THIS IS..." in a movie, then it's a 300 ripoff
by theplant
Also anyone who walks in a movie is a ripoff of the first movie ever made where someone walked to the camera.
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...for TITANIC either...I was in college at the time...my own little world.
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I just wanted to address three of the stupider things said on this talkback. If you watch the trailer you might notice when Sigourney's character is told her purpose is to find a diplomatic solution to move the Na'vi off the land which contains what they're looking for. They certainly don't want to commit genocide, and I'm sure they want to avoid warfare by any means possible, hence the existence of the Avatar program.
Chakraborta - you need to work on your story comprehension skills. It's painfuly obvious Jake's real body isn't on Earth, it's on Pandora just like his Na'vi. You really couldn't grasp that?
As for the humans winning, it's obvious that Jake has humans on his side by the end of the movie, and not all of them are evil. I think the idea is to just root against the evil humans.
On a side note, it is now confirmed the CGI and performance capture in this movie is far more advanced then anything we've seen before. Oscar for FX is an absolute lock...Cameron did not lie when he said photo-real.
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See the texturizing on the skin cells as they flake of the Navi's arms? Thats Jettl93 work, if I ever saw it. Speaking of which, when I was sitting in the stickyfoot theater watching LAND OF THE LOST with C-No and some friends, I cracked a joke "Looks like Jettl93 DIDN'T do any script doctoring on this giant turd!" Everyone got quiet, I looked around, hoping I didn't just make an ass of myself. But then Kurt Russell laughed, so I knew it was all ok.
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I remember the pre-Titanic hysteria over the budget and whatnot. But are you reading something new or old?
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A story having "cliches" is one thing. Being , virtually "word for word" is another. And that's what you said. The point is, this movie is no more similar to Dances than any of those other movies I listed are to their "sources", and probably less similar than some...like A Fistful of Dollars and, yes, O Brother, which not only lifts plot elements from The Odyssey but follows the actual story itself.
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mention Jettl90s work on Avatar,u beat me to it. ;)
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Furngullier With a Vengeance!
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WITH WINGS AS EAGLES read here...http://www.thearnoldfans.com/movies/wings/wings.htm....Arnold and Cameron can team up on so many epic action films like CRUSADE or even a WWII film like EAGLES. It would also be cool if Arnie was in AVATAR 2 and BATTLE ANGEL.
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...screen name would have something to do with diving. What's the mandrake reference?It's on honor to meet you sir.
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Where does the "core story" stop and the "specific story" start with AVATAR? You're right, there are no "new stories" per se, but when you have a version like AVATAR where you see the story beats played out in the trailer, you think "Fuck, this is just like (fill in the blank)." I'm not hating on Cameron for going this way, I just think he doesn't deserve lavish praise just because he did it in a new visual way. Lucas made some visually stunning material with the prequels and we all know how that played out.
I think it is completely fair to call out the similarities of this movie with DANCES WITH WOLVES, POCAHONTAS, THE MATRIX, fuck even DELGO! Hey, I ragged on ERAGON being the same story as STAR WARS (same beats, same pacing, same character arcs, same everything practically!). Some movies are more inventive than others. I'm interested to see how "original" Cameron makes AVATAR. -
big Jimmy Cameron is going to bring it and you are all going to bask in his trademark creamy blue glow of TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION.
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...in the current NEW YORKER. I'm no scholar of behind the scenes stuff, so it might be common knowledge. It was new to me though.
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MandrakeRoot, you're addressing the points made by other talkbackers but you havent answered my query about if Navi Sam nuts does dormant Sam splooge?
Pls respond urgently. -
I think it's a bit ambitious to say the CG acting is that much more advanced here. The last trailer motion was cartoony. Maybe they resolved that shit since then, but this low-res camcorder version chewed through a flash video format is not convincing me of anything yet.
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Star Wars was drawn from Campbell's monomyth, so you will literally find hundreds of stories throughout history that share many of the same character types, plot elements, etc. Like The Matrix. And Edgar Rice Burroughs stuff. And pretty much any kind of messianic story you can imagine. I am sure some of those elements will be on display in Avatar, too...the call to adventure, crossing the first threshold, the hero of two worlds...etc.
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...word for word about his eyeballs "being merely fondled without permission". Pretty fucking cool in my book.
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White man came across the sea
He brought us pain and misery
He killed our tribes, he killed our creed
He took our game for his own need
We fought him hard we fought him well
Out on the plains we gave him hell
But many came too much for Cree
Oh will we ever be set free?
Riding through foilage and rain forests
Galloping hard in the jungle
Chasing the thundersmurfs back to their holes
Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom a stab in the back
Women and children the cowards attack
Run to Pandoraaa,
run for your lives.
Run to Pandoraaa,
run for your lives.
Soldier blue on the barren wastes
Hunting and killing their game
Raping the women and wasting the men
The only good Thundersmurfs are tame
Selling them whiskey and taking their friendship bracelets
Enslaving the young and destroying the old
Run to Pandoraaaaa,
run for your lives.
Run to Pandoraaaa,
run for your lives.
(Electric guitar solo)
Yeeeeeeeeeeeah oooooooooohhh
Run to Pandoraaaaa,
run for your lives.
Run to Pandoraaaa,
run for your lives.
Run to Pandoraaaaaa,
run for your lives.
Run to Pandoraaaaa,
run for yooour liiiiiiives.
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...fucking brilliant. I need to get that album again.
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You people act like a movie with this plot comes out every fucking week. You can name like 4 movies with a slightly similar plot over the last 30 years and your up in arms. 90% of movies are remakes and ripoffs that don't even attempt to bring anything new to the table, which Avatar certainly does, being that no ones seen this story told this way before. Everyone's acting so offended like were getting completely original movies all the time, so that when a story comes around that was told 15 years ago in a completely different fashion, we dismiss it as a ripoff. Plus as someone mentioned, Cameron said it's a Dances with Wolves/ Pocahontas type story, with aspects of every sci-fi movie. It's the story he wanted to tell and I for one can't wait to see his take.
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...we shall fight them on the floating islands......we shall fight them in the purple forests... ...we shall fight them on the back of alien dinosaurs... ...we shall NEVER surrender...
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It's a fucking 3 minute trailer for a movie that's nearly 3 hours. You honestly think you've seen it all? You know Cameron kept a lot of the good shit out of the trailer, and he's the master at the false ending. If you really think you know the whole movie from a three minute trailer, your gonna be in for a nice little shock. I believe Jon Landau said Avatar has "the mother of all movie battles".
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Obvisouly The Abyss isn't mentioned in the movie list because it is pretty much a financial failure from Cameron's part. It didn't too well in the boxoffice and only after its directors cut small horde of people have begun to think it as a good movie. Kinda like Daredevil.
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James Cameron has resurrected Carter Burke! W00t!
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And a lot of other mythology- but Lucas synthesized a ton of different things in a dramatically new manner. Like I said, there are no "new stories" but new methods can create inventive works. My only concern re: AVATAR is that Cameron was lazy on the story angle and obsessed with the eye-fucking FX. I'm not a huge fan of Cameron as a writer (his dialogue can be downright awful too) but I do respect the man's visuals. But that's my taste, and I'm sensing he is repeating his past pattern here with AVATAR.
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...just curious Sir. I ask with respect, I think she's the coolest.
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We all see blue and white
When it comes to someone elses fight
No one ever gets involved
Apathy can never solve
Respect is something that you earn
Our Thundersmurf brothers getting burned
Original Pandoran
Turned into second class citizen
Cry for the Thundersmurfs
Die for the Thundersmurfs
Cry for the Thundersmurfs
Cry, cry, cry for the Thundersmurfs
Love the land and fellow smurf
Peace is what we strive to have
Some smurfs have none of this
Hatred and prejudice
Mosh partwardance!!!
Territory, its just the body of the nation
The people that inhabit it make its configuration
Prejudice, something we all can do without
Cause a flag of many colors is
What Pandora is all about!!!!
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re: Hidden Fortress...I already said that in my initial post on this thread, so I get ya.
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Oct 23, 2009 1:11:38 PM CDT
I think the reaction after we all see this will be...
by alienindisguise
what the fuck did we just watch? This just feels like more of an exercise in advancing the tech rather than advancing storytelling which is the most important thing in any film.
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When asked directly if this movie was a typical "going native" story like Dances With Wolves in space:
"Yes, exactly, it is very much like that. You see the same theme in "At Play in the Fields of the Lord" and also "The Emerald Forest," which maybe thematically isn't that connected but it did have that clash of civilizations or of cultures. That was another reference point for me. There was some beautiful stuff in that film. I just gathered all this stuff in and then you look at it through the lens of science fiction and it comes out looking very different but is still recognizable in a universal story way. It's almost comfortable for the audience – "I know what kind of tale this is." They're not just sitting there scratching their heads, they're enjoying it and being taken along. And we still have turns and surprises in it, too, things you don't see coming. But the idea that you feel like you are in a classic story, a story that could have been shaped by Rudyard Kipling or Edgar Rice Burroughs."
When asked how he came up with the story:
"Well, my inspiration is every single science fiction book I read as a kid. And a few that weren't science fiction. The Edgar Rice Burroughs books, H. Rider Haggard — the manly, jungle adventure writers. I wanted to do an old fashioned jungle adventure, just set it on another planet, and play by those rules."
When a reporter mentioned that the overall premise reminded him of the John Carter of Mars stories:
"It's definitely got that feeling, and I wanted to capture that feeling, but updated. To be certain, I wanted a film that could encompass all my interests, from biology, technology, the environment — a whole host of passions. But I've always had a fondness for those kind of science fiction/adventure stories, the male warrior in an exotic, alien land, overcoming physical challenges and confronting the fears of difference. Do we conquer? Exploit? Integrate? Avatar explores those issues."
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Ie. For superbly structured, emotionally engaging sci fi action movies. There is NO better genre writer than Cameron, not for this kind of stuff. Period.Archetypal stories mean absolutely nothing. It's the specifics and details that make the difference. The Terminator was a well trodden time travel story. Doesn't stop it being a classic. Star Wars was simply The Hidden Fortress in space. Again, classical Campbell Hero's journey. The same seven or so basic story types have been told again and again since time immemorial. Everything after Homer was a narrative 'cliche'. It's called dramatic structure and plotting.
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That's pretty cool that you think I'm James Cameron. Am I supposed to be offended? Sorry I'm not though, I just can't help but speak the truth of the matter, which is that this movie looks abso-fucking-lutely kick ass, and it's this type of thing that's been missing from hollywood blockbusters. Cameron is the master and he's back in full force, here to remind you fuckers how to make a movie. I'm grateful for everything this man's done, with no goal but to entertain the fuck out of us and provide the ultimate movie escapism...and he always does.
Oh and Mandrake Root is a reference to the Deep Purple track...referencing the most kick ass rock and roll band to walk the earth. -
He tanked his career himself by being a bit anal. I AM LEGEND, CRUSADE, and TOTAL RECALL 2 are all detailed in David Hughes' two books, "Tales From Development Hell" and "The Greatest Sci-Fi Movies Never Made." Virtually every, vastly different draft of Recall 2 seems better than any movie Arnold made after 1996. And the shitty Will Smith/rap video director IAL makes me angrier and angrier when you learn more about Ridley Scott's elaborate plans for the film with Arnold - one draft had virtually no dialogue for close to an hour! Then there's Crusade and of course Wings For Eagles. Arnold fucked his own shit up.
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Good on you to post that man. Cameron explains it perfectly, and it actually makes me happy he's attempting a story like this. He's totally right in that most sci-fi movies leave the audience cold and distant with their plot...this is gonna be a movie that everyone's gonna enjoy like crazy, but still have some original plot points to keep it original and engaging.
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Was the Protosevich "I Am Legend" script the one Scott was going to use?
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My apprehension is completely gone now. This is gonna be something incredible. I can't wait for a high-res version, because the visuals just look insane. This is definitely a big leap in terms of effects over anything that has come before, and anybody saying otherwise is in denial. I can't judge the creature effects from that quality, but the recent high-res images that were released also look much better than the teaser. I don't know if they've improved them over the last few months, or if the teaser just picked some very bad shots. Probably a little bit of both. Either way, come December, I'll be there opening day.
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Smurfs? Thundercats? Dances with Wolves? Pocahontas? Blue? How fucking UNORIGINAL! I've seen ALL OF THIS BEFORE! IT'S BEEN DONE TO DEATH! Come up with some NEW MATERIAL that HASN'T BEEN SAID BEFORE when criticizing a movie you haven't seen!!! Think about that before you go about calling Cameron 'Unoriginal'! You hacks! Is it so hard to come up with some original trolling? At least you'd be entertaining, which is something Avatar will certainly be, while you clearly are not!
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According to Protosevich, he was taken off the project when Ridley arrived and began working on it with someone - I think William Monahan, but I'm not sure. Protosevich was later brought back in after trouble with the studio over Ridley's more abstract, arty vision. With a touch of sour grapes Protosevich calls the Monahan draft "unproduceable." I think Protosevich's draft was ok (I've read it) but the Scott version sounds much more interesting, if avant-garde. Much of the first hour was to be taken up only with Arnold prowling the city, hunting, the only dialogue often coming from snippets of tapes his dead wife made for him.
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Of course it's not actually the same script word for word. There was no way I could have meant that literally without seeing bowstrings and indians on the screen. But you come out swinging (which is to say making liberal use of hyperbole) in the hopes of making a point, and then when someone disagrees it settles into a happy medium of equanimity (like mutual acknowledgment that this plot is incredibly hackneyed) as long as both parties are reasonably, level-headed people.
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We thought it was just Fern Gully, but really it's
Dances with wolves + Fern Gully.
Relocate them bastards.
I kind of felt my eyes being given a handjob in that clip... poorly, but a handjob nevertheless
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On whether the movie has "political resonance":
"Only in the very broadest sense of how we as a Western technological civilization deal with indigenous cultures; we basically supplant them. If not in an active, genocidal way, then in a passive manner. They just kind of wither away. Our impact on the natural environment, wherever we go — strip mining and putting up shopping malls. Now, we're extending that to another planet."
On "photo-real" effects and when he knew there was technology to pull something like this off:
"Looking at what Peter Jackson was able to do with Gollum, and then King Kong. And Davy Jones [from Pirates of the Caribbean] — all these examples of compelling photo-realistic, fully CG characters, in a photo-realistic world. I don't think many people are aware that a lot of the jungle scenes in King Kong were actually CG. They did a lot with miniatures, but toward the end they were doing a lot of the jungles in CG." -
Of course Dunbar wasn't sent to be a spy, that was the basis on which I ridiculed your last point. I called this film Dances With Wolves, and your overwhelming response was essentially, "They are nothing alike! This guy has a gimp leg and he's a SPY for the first ten minutes!"
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Just checked the book. Logan and Ridley's draft was tossed and Protosevich came back on to work with Scott on something more conventional narrative. But then the deal fell apart.
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I can not view the avatar trailer now, so can someone tell me if it really kicks ass? I would love to see a kick ass Cameron flick, animated or not. Does the animation look better than in the previous trailer?
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Show me where I fell into hyperbole please. Because I have no idea what you are talking about. The list of movies I provided, which was my first post, is completely valid, not hyperbolic in the least. The movies on the left are all widely known to have drawn from the stories on the right.
And if you did not literally mean "whereas this is DANCES practically word for word, just change the set decorations to green screens", then you probably should not have typed it. -
...but so was the trailer for Phantom Menace.
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Fuck THAT guy.
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I was willing to reserve judgment.
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Looks fucking immense. Iron Jim back in action.
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$300 million dollar film and he still uses Papyrus font...lol
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thats funny.
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And they were within Ridley's offices, so I'm surprised he wasn't involved during Ridley's time in development. I liked the drafts I read a lot. Took some home with me I think.
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That was fucking fantastic. Can't wait to see it in better quality.
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Thundersmurfs! Hooooooooooooooooo!
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Are you overweight and have bitch tits? I'm betting you do. About your point that Worthington's body is on Na'vi and not Earth, I don't give a fuck what planet his body is on you annoying fucking dork. I was talking about whether or not his body is dormant and possesses his consciousness when he's a Na'vi. Whether it's on Earth, Pandora, or in your closet, I don't give a fuck.
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i thought we had already cleared this.
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I liked the trailer. I liked the amount of plot we can now see. As for the effects, hard to say if it is any better with the quality that we are shown. Might have to wait until the 29th to be certain.
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You are really bad at using quotes for your arguments.
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There's also a draft by John Logan, the writer for Gladiator. I think this is the one that came closest to production (for a 98 release). It's not half bad, although quite action-oriented, ie. a typical action finale instead of the more cerebral one from the book. But the action and atmosphere are quite exciting, far better than the Big Willy dud. Also, the vampires are creepily depicted, dressed in rags, with diseased flesh poking through, much better than the roaring pink dickheads from Smith's version, which seemed to have snuck out of the aborted CGI file for The Mummy movies at ILM.
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his consciousness is in everyone's body. That's why killing the thundersmurfs for material gain is so wrong.
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enough games. nobody is going to fucking see that amelia piece of shit. the studio should really let Cameron do the thinking.
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Caste systems and whatnot, however primal they were. Saw some cool concept art.
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...the trailer has no sports, and the quality was low, so it's hard to tell if the animation is any better.Everything else about the trailer was better though. Story still looks familiar, but execution looks solid and exciting so I'm going in expecting a good Cameron flick.And that's pretty cool.
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release the fucking HD version,already.jesus h christ.
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Thanks. Shame there is no space football in it though. I will survive. I want this movie to be great. Who in their right mind wants an epic sci-fi movie to be bad?
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IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE NEW TRAILER I WILL FUCKIN HUNT YOU DOWN AND I WILL FUCKIN KILL YOU ! YOU'RE NOT IN THE TALKBACKS ANYMORE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS JAMES FUCKIN CAMERON YOUR CAPTAIN SPEAKING, KICKASS TIME !
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Using nitro-metal-balls with neon laser suits. In a lil film called Starship Troopers.
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I was talking about my own hyperbole, and it is completely possible to MEAN something while exaggerating. So much for finding common ground. Go ahead and rave about the originality of this story, I will maintain it doesn't do justice to the visual effects.
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In these days of HD cameras in cell phones we get THAT piece of crap?
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Hey, I'm curious... so what did you guys think of T2?
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He sounded pretty fucking intelligent and cocksure too. Guys, let's just agree that the movie will suck already! (KIDDING!) I'll be there opening day too.
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Go Flash, go!
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Klytus in three point stance! And Melody as a cheerleader!
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with him and the smurf girl having a romantic picnic and then surfing on the backs of jungle cows I'll be satisfied
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I'm kind of curious to see how well-thought out this world is. He was paying attention to a lot detail to justify everything from what I could tell, even down to the reason why they had to use bullets as oppossed to more advanced weaponry. Then again, all of those details won't mean squat if the story is crap.
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It was still classic!
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it can't be done.
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Maybe you'll enjoy this if you change your tampons. you cranky ass bitches.
With all the shitty remakes coming out. its nice to see something that isn't one. Even if its slightly reminiscent of other stories.
There's nothing new under the sun right?
Still I'm looking forward to seeing this, but you guys go ahead and complain if it makes you feel better. I love the internet. -
I really liked T2. Thought it rocked hard. The only thing I did not like about it, was the pussification of Arnold - oh yeah and Edie Furlong. But still Furlong was better than Stahled-out. And the T2000 was great!
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John Dunbar in DANCES WITH WOLVES did have a gimp leg at the start of the movie. Remember in the Civil War opener when he's trying to pull his boots on.
Ultimately both Sam and Dunbar seem to be 'scarred soldier' archetypes. Don't know why anyone would dispute this. -
Oct 23, 2009 2:01:02 PM CDT
drewlicious...a fellow civilized being in the wilderness...
by flickapoo
...hail fellow well met. Milk or lemon?
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From Buster to Sam! Ok, the scf-fi Flash sucked, but we will not talk about that.
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I would fucking punch him in the face if he was my boss.
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Ha! nobody has said that yet!
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...that was amusing.
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...we would have. You know it's true.
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the 1980 movie is the best sci-fi movie ever made in the known universe, sir.
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Sounds better than the T1000. Much more manly. Or, I just fucked up the numbering scheme. Take your pick.
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Yeah, I keep hearing about his amazing "attention to detail" too...
Except, of course, that going to another star system to cure an earth-based energy crisis makes about as much sense as making a transatlantic flight with a gas can in order to fill up your car...
Yeah, yeah...I know: quit thinking and just enjoy it. *FEEL* THE AVATAR, PEOPLE. -
Oct 23, 2009 2:08:39 PM CDT
I was thinking of a Terminator sequel far, far away in the futur
by d.vader
Like in Spaceballs. "Now so-and-so's review of Rocky 5... THOUSAND."
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...of the coolosity credit.
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Forbidden Planet - which is the greatest sci-fi movie of all time. Not even joking. I love that flick.
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...the lovely, Italian, and often naked.
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Without a doubt that was one of the greatest if not the strangest combination of genre and music that has ever hit the mainstream screen. But it damn sure worked!
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Intrigued by the so-called "mother of all battles"
Wonder if it's as good as Ewoks Vs Mini At-At's? Cos them Ewoks had a few tricks up their sleevs with the logs and what-not. Just saying. The Navi have got their work cutout if they want to compete. -
Ornella had one of the finest Asses of all time! I almost fuckin jumped through the screen when Flash refused to fuck her silly when she was begging him!
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without Queen it wouldn't be nearly as awesome.
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Wouldnt it be amazing if the Navi are like all beaten and surrounded, the baddie mechs close in on them. Then suddenly up pop 1000 Ewoks from the bushes and start smacking the shit out of the mechs and throwing stones at the marines. NO WONDER CAMERON'S HAD THIS THING UNDER WRAPS! WHAT A FUCKING MINDBLOWING TWIST THAT WOULD BE!!!
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Oct 23, 2009 2:17:57 PM CDT
Just cover your eyes in the twitchback and you will be fine
by toadkillerdog
Because we are all sports nutz over there - well most of us anyway.
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...sister with Mrs. FlickaPoo.
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so sometime in the long distant future, humans are still dressing as if its 2003. ugh.
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TBH I just wanted to throw a little more Cameron-haterade on this fire, but I echo almost every one of your sentiments about T2, even preferring Furlong to Stahl. There are always legit criticisms about that one, but with anything Cameron, the overall experience is worth swallowing a few nitpicks. And you're right about Forbidden Planet, too. Right up there with the best of space-faring sci-fi. And it's funny you mention FP in this thread where people are criticizing Avatar for ripping off previous stories... as it is pretty much a "rip-off" of The Tempest, but in space. -
Do you really want cheezy super-scifi future suits, so that in the future we'll look back with derision at such a bad choice?
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Hoping that in the future we've moved on, bc you don't like current fashion wear?
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I thought that it had always been acknowledged as a remake of sorts?
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Someone mentioned earlier about stories being recycled, that is fine as long as they are done with talent. And Cameron has talent. The Tempest was the basis for FP. No one bitched about that. Well, maybe some hardcore Shakespearean purists, but fuck the haters! i really want a kick ass sci-fi movie! Animated or not. i do not care. Just as long as it rocks hard.
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Look at it this way. Cameron doesn't want to make TRUE LIES 2 with Arnold, so he's doing huge epic scale projects now (ie TITANIC and AVATAR). Why not do a medevil epic like CRUSADE next? Arnie brought Cameron TRUE LIES when he saw a French spy comedy LA TOTAL. So now Arnie should bring Jim a real challenge with CRUSADE. Cameron should start re-writing the script to update HAGAN for an older Arnie. If Eastwood can do UNFORGIVEN as an older bad ass, Arnie should still play HAGAN, the bad ass knight. Cameron is bringing the world PANDORA, he should next bring the world a scary medevil setting full of ultra violence and Arnie killing everyone like he is still CONAN!
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Oct 23, 2009 2:25:33 PM CDT
...hey, remember back in 2009 when we all thought people...
by flickapoo
...in the future would be wearing bubble wrap? What were we thinking?
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Hard NOT to notice a pro-Taliban/Al-Queada and anti-US message to this movie now. I frankly was more excited by the first trailer. This revealed nothing about the plot I hadn't guessed from the first one, actually kind of dilutes my interest a little by making it look more ponderous, and now it's got a really unmistakable political message I find misguided and overly simplistic. Battle for Terra may have covered the same material in a more satisfying way too.
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everytime i peek into an avatar TB, i find idiots running amok. i'm tired of dispensing the same logic over and over. dances with wolves in space??? the same story "word for word"??? and you know this how? because you've SEEN the movie?
oh you have not. but you KNOW it's the same movie. right. idiots always talk the loudest. -
And if you have to ask her last name, you are not the worthy!
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Oct 23, 2009 2:30:47 PM CDT
...this is just a ripoff of that story where the hero has to...
by flickapoo
...leave home and face a challenge, confront mortal danger, and fall in love.Yawn. Never need to see that movie again.
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...looks like a piece of fruit that was perfectly ripe to bursting about thirty seconds ago. She's about thirty seconds too ripe and all the sweeter and juicier for it.And she just keeps looking like that...year after year.
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Monica is to be worshipped at all times in the twitchback. Just mention your undying love for all of Monica, and all will be forgiven.
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Alright, misunderstood you. I thought you were saying that I was being hyperbolic. Listen, my point was never that Avatar was going to be very original. Ever. My point is that just because it *admittedly* draws from other stories, that doesn't mean it won't be an incredibly entertaining film.
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...every once and a while a rule comes along that is pleasant burden and a pleasure to uphold.
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...and Edwige mostly blinds you with her beauty.
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Oct 23, 2009 2:41:25 PM CDT
Revolutionary, Game-changer, Mind-blowing, EPIC, Photo-real
by trannyformers_apologist
Vapid script
Boring story
Predictable story
Heavy environmentalism theme
Horrible dialogue
Extremely cliche story
Cliche characters
Terrible Na'vi designs
Cartoon/video game CGI
Cheap and stupid font
Worthington's accent
Bad acting
Craptastic trailers/poster
Fox studios
Delgo
Ferngully
Dark Crystal
Battle for Terra
Dances with Wolves
Star Trek: Insurrection Pocahontas
Thundercats
Smurfs
Furry porn
Asinine hype
Photo-real
Brainwashed bandwagon fanboys
Hilarious apologist/defenders
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Any love for FLESH GORDON?
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Teaser = Fail
Trailer = Epic Win -
BORING!!! Sam Worthington's delivery of the word "outstanding" literally made me fall asleep...LITERALLY!!!
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I have not watch Flesh Gordon in about 20 years. I loved the Danforth model work. And the robots cracked me up. I would have to revisit it to give an up to date answer. I have it on VHS somewhere in a box in my basement.
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i thought dark knight was part zorro, part zodiac, part heat. district 9? how about the fly + blood diamond? matrix is ghost in the shell meets true lies meets john woo. starwars? forgetaboutit!
the only one more stupid than those who think avatar is nothing more than a dances with wolves ripoff, is the one predicting about box office! are u a film buff or are u the studio's accountant? then why the hell would care about anything else but the FILM and the FILM alone. just because your favorite movie makes more money doesnt mean you have a bigger dick. -
Lent my cop to a 'friend', never got it back. Maybe ebay.
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People don't read. People claiming to be "true SF fans" and they haven't read "John Carter of Mars" or recognize the universal themes contained in storytelling archetypes. This just amplifies what I saw in the 15 min 3D presentation. Cameron is releasing a thrill ride movie. What's the problem?
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he doesn't even need to SEE the film first to know that it's every one of those things he said. he's that special.
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—Amen, may we bask in that glow for the stake of action pictures.
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I feel your pain. I loaned a friend a copy of Young Doctors in Love, and never got it back. I loved that flick. Of course I also loaned him a copy of Dr. Detroit - but he gave that one back.
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I never said story doesn't matter..I responed to someone saying it's the same "old " story.
I said it's how the story is told that is more important..You can have a great story but if it isn't told right or done its justice visually than its going to be shite. I don't believe I have been told the story of Avatar before that I remember..
Maybe the concepts have been touched on before by many authors..
But this story and the way it's being visualized is all kinds of new..Over the many years that storytelling has been around (since the dawn of mans ability to communicate) There have been many variations of the same old stories.. Just different names and places but the concepts are the same in many cultures..
Everyone that dogs this film before having seen it or any part of it in the way the author wants to present it is just a babbling moron ..Who has nothing better to do in life than trash others works and efforts instead of trying to accomplish the same or do better...sound retarded now you fuckstick!!! -
Oct 23, 2009 2:58:14 PM CDT
Is that deluded circus clown Tranny Fuckhead back for more?
by turdontherun
Continue to grind on at the organ, monkey boy.
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That's like saying Spielberg has a pro-Nazi message because Oskar Schindler was German.
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Laugh while you can....MONKEY BOY
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Got the juices flowing a bit more. Still not a 'game-changer', though.
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And Forbidden Planet is the shit.
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Ditto...and...ditto.
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Harry give us a bloody edit function^
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Proper storytelling. Time for all the people talking ass about this movie for the past few months to line up for some humble pie.
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I sincerely hope we get more than two-dimensional characters in this lastest telling of Dances With Wolves/Last Samuri. I have extremely high hopes for this flic, but if the bad guy is the bad guy simply because he's written that way, I'll not be surprised, but I will be disappointed.
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I love all the pompous armchair commentary on this one more than any other movie. You guys are going to eat so much crow when you actually sit in the theater to watch the thing...Its going to be awesome watching you backpaddle.
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i see your pathetic hater list and i'll raise you a TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION.
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December will be awesome!!! I have waited for this movie for many years and this first trailer (without images :)) is AMAZING! A new King book, a new book from (dead) Michael Crichton, a free webcomic (www.MayaComic.com) by Chris Noeth and James Cameron's AVATAR. This December is EPIC!
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You might want to watch the trailer before commenting on it that way you don't come off looking like an ignorant troll. You must be quite the hater to post about something you readily admit you've never even seen. Where I come from that's called ignorance.
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from the 80's, come to life.
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Contrary to what they say, you know all the 'haters' will see it (and probably like it) but will still return to these boards with their same old childlike rants. The TC that LOLed about the font on the trailer/poster, I really did LOL at him. Still waiting for Nerd_Rage to chime in with his same old same old, and whatever incarnation CarlMarkThor has taken, with his.
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At least this trailer makes me interested in seeing it.
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They won't eat crow, they'll all just pretend not to like it like they do everything else because they think it makes them seem cool.
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http://bit.ly/1gKH2r LOL
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If I found out the plot was nowhere near as simple as I'm thinking it is. That's it. Not bigger explosions, and lots and lots of CGI doodads flying around and jumping out of the bushes or how many fucking pores I can count on the faces of the sythespians...just a few decent surprises with the plot. 'Cause man, I sure ain't seeing it, and no matter how much gravy you put on dog food, it's still dog food.
And if you think box office receipts impress me, that ceased to mean shit after a zillion assholes plunked down hard-earned cash for TRANSFORMERS 2. -
It's an impossibility. Greatest film ever made. Anyone who disagrees on that point is in dire need of therapy.
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It looks like Dances With Wolves and the Thundercats, Smurfs and Fern Gully! Dances with Wolves! Thundersmurfs! Fern Smurf Gully Wolves! HOLY FUCK I'M CLEVER!!!!!
You fucking douches. -
The user who said in the previous Avatar talkback "My eyes were merely fondled without permission" has been quoted in the New Yorker feature on Cameron. Oh, the glory ...
Also, Jim does an impression of a generic basement fanboy. -
great read, and has a few glimpses into making some scenes in the movie. And the haters will still hate this when it comes out, nothing will change their minds now.
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The final scene is Worthington crawling on the floor out of the wheel chair just as crazy ass STEPHEN LANG is about to penetrate his blue gal with a mech warrior suit, saving her life while losing his.
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I want to see - This is is? Uh yeah, I'll wait for the DVD. New Moon - Overrated. Avatar? I saw the 15 min clip thing in August, so I feel like I saw the movie already.
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is full of shit. you all know you're seeing this.
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is full of shit. you all know you're seeing this.
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Normally, movie-based video games aren't such a big deal, but since the premise of this movie is basically Worthington playing a high-tech action packed alien version of the Sims, this is noteworthy. Plus it will give an early glimpse of movie details.
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Amen.
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If you went back and told me a week after I saw Aliens, that the guy who directed that would have a movie about a planet of giant blue aliens fighting with men in robot armor, I would have still had an erection today.Until I saw this trailer...and apparently, this flick is Starring CGI and produced by IMAX. I hope it's at least as good as Pirhana II. (a FINE Cameron film)
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The game is a completely different story, based before Sam gets to Pandora. The game's not brilliant but pretty good for a movie tie-in. And there are some great looks at Pandora and a great little RTS game that's almost as good as the main game.
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http://xrl.in/3ej6
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If you think this film has any chance of failing, or that it's plot is clichéd, you really need to pay more attention. Any negative comment made about the plot's originality should be given a healthy dose of disdain. Given the short timeframe and focus, you could easily find a clichéd plot in the majority of ALL trailers released. Look at the trailer for Zombieland for example - I can name at least 5 films in the past 5 years alone that fit the storyline shown in the trailer EXACTLY. How many other films involve a complex sci-fi concept like a paralyzed human travelling to another world as an alien to infiltrate the natives?
The BIG opportunity this storyline presents is in the ending, which as everyone should know is the final nail in a true blockbuster. If it unfolds as I think it obviously will, then it will benefit from the same emotional climax that pushed Titanic into the stratosphere. POSSIBLE SPOILER: The romantic sub-plot will end in tragedy, but uniquely so. Jake's AVATAR will die in the final battle, leaving Neytiri on Pandora holding his corpse, while Jake is revived as a human back on the spacecraft. This of course represents one of the most profoundly tragic and original lovestory concepts ever. Basically, it should turn out to be much more intense emotionally, which combined with the aesthetic qualities and a presumably engaging directorial style, will have people proclaiming the film as "beautiful". "Beautiful" that involves breakthrough 3-D, a unisex marketing campaign, insane effects and action and a good story is guaranteed Box Office fodder.
Wake up people. -
I don't hate this, I just didn't fall in love with it as immediately as a lot of people. And this trailer wasn't my 'scales falling from my eyes' moment. Because it's not all that 'WOW, I've NEVER seen anything like this.'Cameron brought us CGI in a practical way, to sell the reality of the situation...like the Abyss. But now, everything still looks unreal. Maybe I'll think differently when I see it in the theater, but here's the thing; I don't automatically think ANYTHING'S great based on the pedigree of the director. That bit me in the ass in Episode I.
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Ok name five films then?
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Your hole misses you...go crawl back into it.
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looks like she comes straight out of a 1980's heavy metal video. lame! this movie will suck. i predict that GI Joe is a better movie than avatar
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What username does CarlMarkThor go by now? Then the trinity shall be complete.
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maybe... i will never pay to see it though. i could wait a year or two for it to end up on regular tv. seriously, who gives a fuck about 3-d? or imax? its all a gimmick to sell a movie that should have been made in 1982 with jim henson puppets
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...rbatty024. But the winner hasn't shown up to claim just reward yet.
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going apeshit over IMAX. Oh how we forget.
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NUCLEAR FUCKING HOLOCAUST!!
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many geek tears will be shed. this movie looks like a pat benetar video. head bands? seriously? and you people hate on george lucas? shame on you!
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james cameron made this movie for teenage girls. he is going after the twilight market. thats why cameron makes fun of geeks in that interview! this movie is not for geeks at all! its for the tweenies!
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you can't wait for this movie to fail? i can't wait for you to receive TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION.
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Given the painfully self-evident nature of the point I made about trailer clichés, I didn't think to verify the example I used. It's pedantic and irrelevant, but intriguing that you took it upon yourself to ask for a verification. Before you jump into an even more facetious line over the films I'm listing, understand I meant 'premise', not literally the 'storyline' by definition. Not that it matters anyway seeing as how every film listed is markedly more similar to Zombieland than ANYTHING else is to Avatar, thus giving my point credence. Remember this is only within the last 5 years. VERY CLOSE: Dawn of the Dead, Land of the Dead, Survival of the Dead. MORE COMPARABLE PREMISE-WISE TO ZOMBIELAND THAN ANYTHING ELSE IS TO AVATAR: 28 Weeks Later, Planet Terror, Resident Evil, Zone of the Dead, 'Zombies! Zombies! Zombies!'
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He'll pass it along and you will feel it when his balls will slams your ass you fuckin moronic cunt
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and you've just been TOTALY FUCKING DESTROYED
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bring it...(heh, i like your new schtick)
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you do not deserve that name. your not worthy
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Disappointing. I mean, that's it? That's the story? I sure was hoping for more. Something less cliche at least... This is well-worn territory.
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i would pay to see that
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I don't beleive it.
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that the people who are excited to see avatar are the trolls in this talkback. the haters are the norm here. funny aint it?
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Aren't those sorts of surprises etc that you want something you'd have to watch the movie to see and not... y'know... expect to gauge from just a trailer? I mean... couldn't you figure that out? Really? I mean, I know people say I'm smarter than most people but... yeah? You didn't sort of put 2 and 2 together to figure out that maybe what you want can't be found here? Like say when I go to the theatre to see 1 movie, but accidentally walk into the wrong theatre number and a different movie plays, then that probably means I'm likely in the wrong theatre because I don't remember alien robots being in a movie about an old man who lives in a flying balloon house... y'know... like maybe you meant something other than what you wrote, or you wrote that without thinking... Really? You didn't at least re-read what you said and maybe think it over and offer a retractive correction? Like maybe you're not seeing it because that video isn't the entire movie, nor was the last one? Like seriously...?
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Naa I'm only fishing with the troll lines, but seriously just wait for the movie eh? Do you hate Cameron movies? (fair reason) The aesthetic design of this movie (which I can understand). I haven't heard yours yet.
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Oct 23, 2009 5:35:39 PM CDT
The material the humans want is called Unobtanium
by rene_belloq_12inch_figure
Why not Hardtofuckin'findium
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Oct 23, 2009 5:35:45 PM CDT
The material the humans want is called Unobtanium
by rene_belloq_12inch_figure
Why not Hardtofuckin'findium
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Waiting on you CarlMarkThor!
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People who film trailers- or anything - in movie theaters should be taken out and beaten. No exceptions. I don't care about whether it's a copyright infringement or not. They should be flailed just for even thinking of making their shitty little shakey-cam crap and posting it on the internet. Seriously, this site should not allow this kind of ADD behavior.
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Oct 23, 2009 5:47:05 PM CDT
Some of the digital stills i've seen from this would be conisder
by tradeskilz
If they had been presented as some guys photoshop work.
They are that good.
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this movie was being hyped hugely before any visuals were shown to the public. or any story elements told to the public. i was looking forward to it just like anyone else. when i first heard camerons quotes about how amazing this movie was going to be, i had a "wait and see attitude".
then i saw the first trailer. and the first thing that popped into my head was: revenge of the sith. the battle on kashykk. and then i heard a synopsis of the story. and i felt even more let down. this is a movie that is going to preach to me. cameron is going to try his hardest to make me feel guilty for being born an american. (no i'm not right wing, or left).
i truly feel like this movie would make more sense to me as a jim henson movie, using puppets instead of 3-d cgi. this movie feels to me like: dark crystal or labyrinth.
also, i feel like there is a lot of unwarranted hate aimed at george lucas for the prequel trilogy and i feel like james cameron is about to walk that very same path. -
Oh boy, Cameron's really gone loco with the CGI thing, hasn't he...
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The only books he's 'read' are the ones that have a box of crayons attatched to them!
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anyone who thinks they can judge the quality of an upcoming movie from a teenager's ass-cam-shitty-toy-phone-video is an idiot. There, that's enough ranting for one day. Did I tell you how much I hate cell-phone videos?
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I think the last sentence of your post above says more than all the others combined.
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so why not state them in your posts dude!! Now About the hype I don't beleive there has been that much. Maybe to those who like us read movie sites, but for such a huge movie, I think it's had very little public exposure.It probably will be preachy I fear, and thats one of my biggest one's, to be honest it looks slightly more preachy than the scriptment. But really what big budget movie doesn't try crowbar in the moral compass, and if any ones going to do it I'd sooner it be Cameron And from the scriptment I really don't think this could be done with puppets, I agree it could have been more practical maybe but lets wait to see the movie first. This may shock or appall you but I don't mind the prequal trilogy, admittedly I was always just a medium size fan of the Star Wars movies but I think other than some terrible moments, there ok.
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Mr. Retard has NO valid reasons whatsoever, he's just a troll that likes to stir the pot. Oh, I forgot - some vague bullshit about Lucas and the prequels somehow tenuously connected to Cameron and Avatar. Real discriminate logic.Silly boy, didn't you get eviscerated on the last avatar talkback by damn near everyone? Come here to get hung, drawn and quartered yet again? You must be a real glutton for punishment.
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Is Avatar going to do a sort of 'Born On The 4th Of July' thing at the beginning. Will Worthington be a disgruntled and crippled war vet? Cynical, alky?Does he get crippled by the Navi in a previous skirmish? That'd be an interesting psychological predicament...Missed the new trailer but I'd rather wait for the proper version anyway.
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The only good movie is a dead movie I say. My movie-hate fucks your movie-hate up the ass with a baby's arm holding a broken bottle.
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when people where moaning about having to wheel himself around. Obviously thats a main issue of the movie, as we can see in the trailer with Lang offering him his OWN LEGS back.
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There must be nearly 200 posts on here that mention Dances with Wolves. First of all, as said previously, all you've got is a 3.5 minute trailer to make this comparison. The watered-down premise of ANY FUCKING TRAILER will immediately resemble hundreds of other film plot-lines, you fucking morons. Sure at a glance (and that's all you have so far) you could be forgiven for comparing it to Dances With Wolves, but you are seriously deluded if you think that's a negative. In between all the interplanetary travel, the militaristic human forces, the climactic battle, the unique character discourse, and the 'impossible' love story (explained above), do you think anyone will be reminded of Dances With Wolves? Think about it, the premise laid out in 90% of new trailers could be compared to any number of previous films. Avatar's hype is causing some people to apply an unusual amount of scrutiny to whatever perceived issues they can find. For the record, Dances With Wolves was over 15 years ago - that's long enough for someone born after it's release to be old enough to purchase an Avatar ticket on their own now. What the fuck else is there to warrant so ranting about this being unoriginal? Seriously.. Pocahontas? In the realm of films, even if the general story is extremely similar to another movie, the subplots, tone, scope and characterisations can easily make old premises seem fresh. In this context, Avatar is actually quite original, and no doubt will appear more-so once the full end product is released.
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Your so tough man, insulting people through your computer screen! Please teach me how I can be tough like you.
I'm not afraid to show people what I look like, so if your really that curious...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT8LzEooutM -
is shallow comparisons to quality movies that came out years and years ago. They have nothing on this movie so they simply keep repeating the only criticisms they know. How fucking pathetic. It doesn't matter though, those of us who aren't hate mongers have something kick ass to look forward to, while the rest of these bitches will keep whining and whining, while Cameron takes their money anyway.
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Really, who the fuck can honestly say those character designs are cool? This from an Academy Award winning director who was an Art Director? blue fucking cat eyed natives with braided mullets?
I'm sure it will be a great experience in 3D, and each time I've seen the trailers I find a mixture of excitement, but when the Navi appear on screen..I cant help it...EWWWW...it looks lame. 3000 Dimensions wont help that. I'm sure we're going to get an interesting ride...but anyone would be forgiven for feeling like we're not getting anything as memorable as Aliens. -
is about to make McG, JJ, Bay and all the rest of the Hack Pack look like the clueless morons that they really are. That ain't hype, just the facts in the cold light of day.
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You are so full of shit, do you actually believe anything you say? You saw 15 minutes from the first half of a 3 hour movie, and you've seen it all. No one is impressed by your indifference, and you know your gonna be first in like just like everyone else here. These talkbacks are so fucking pathetic, the most joyless sad sack people populate this place.
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And his opinions are spot on. I salute you sir.
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I can say they look cool, cause they do. Once again, stop mistaking your poorly formed opinion for a general consensus.
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that's the problem..and that's why every cunt who pulls out the 'you know you're seeing this' will feel like a twat after seeing it.
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then your taste is buried firmly in your ass.
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They also want to know who nuked the fridge in which they were saving all their raped eyeballs.
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…that is all…
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fuck you dickhead...anyone can say whatever the fuck they like, based on whatever they like. You just did fuckhead.
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I used to agree with you, to the point where I was waking myself up screaming WTF (the letters). But I'm confident these dudes will grow on the public, especially once everyone can see this new trailer clearly. The problem with the first trailer is that the Navi look like tall blue versions of the Dark Crystal main characters, especially in the eyes. But then they grow on you, and it's clear that they've evolved from cats. From a marketing perspective choosing such an off-beat appearance could ultimately provide a big payoff. See, the issue here isn't so much that they don't look cool, it's that they look SO FUCKING DIFFERENT from anything else we're used to. Given that uniqueness, they'll stand-out very well in popular culture. Once we get a good look at the facial expressions and close-ups we'll get a better idea.
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Muppets? Really? You idiot! No puppet comes close to the amount of details and expressions of the CG characters in Avatar. Using puppets would look SO FAKE! Some of you really don't know what the fuck you are talking about! And no fucking muppet could do the crazy ass shit we see in the action scenes, or even emote! I can just imageine the top half of a muppet jumping off of a cliff with his puppeteer in tow with his hand stuck up his ass which would definately describe most of you negetive sissies! Hell, even Jim Henson Studios or whatever are moving into completely digital characters. CG creations that are animated using a physical puppeteer system just like the good ol' days but using completely virtual characters. A pupeteer animates the top half of the body. And mo cap actors do the walking and dnacing and stuff! Look it up! You hating asshats are stuck in the past in some fucking outdoor Roman amphitheater watching effeminate men dress up as the women characters which is pretty much the closest thing to Avatar's CG in those days, but hey at least it's realistic and au-naturale real time 3D! Amirite?!
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You should be a fill-in on the Fake Steve Jobs blog. Your prose nearly gave me an erection.
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—ignorance is usually reserved for the uninformed, but you're welcome to enjoy it along with stupidity and impudence…
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—and interesting idea that they're evolved from cats.
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Oct 23, 2009 7:13:34 PM CDT
JAMES CAMERON GREATEST SCI FI WRITER DIRECTOR OF OUR LIFE TIME.
by blkfuturistic
LUCAS pimped star wars like a HO and she lost her tight sweet honey walls, and is now a empty hole. spellberg was a great director then Hollywood castrated him. like that south park episode LUCAS AND BERG have raped and molested sci fi. James Cameron has been the last man standing sense Battle beyond the stars. Aliens 1986 was the greatest sci film moment i sci fi history. JC films are like the classic scifi films we watched on tv during the 70's and 80's that cable and the modern networks dont have the balls to show any more. I am glad to have and see the sci fi vision of a director like james cameron in my life time. If only he can make movies every 3 yrs I would be happy. I have a order of ABSINTHE HAPSBURG HARDCORE %89 PROFFED RESERVED FOR THIS FILM RELASE. IAM GONNA HIGH OFF THIS FLICK.
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Yeah if you look at this shot of a Navi it basically looks like the face of a blue Puma:
http://tinyurl.com/yzn5t48
And then you consider the long tale, physical ability etc. It's a no-brainer. -
Pure. Genius.
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http://tinyurl.com/yjjy943
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Who is that guy, does he post on here? Is it YOU? Very talented, I subscribed.
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...hipster douchebag. I want to smash that acoustic guitar over your head. Crazy on you, indeed.
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I understand people being cynical about this movie.These big cgi filled movies are so often a let down these days.I have faith in Cameron though he knows how to tell a good story and HE DIRECTED ALIENS!
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...would make a hilarious WoW character name.
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of a hero switching sides. It's getting more apparent day-by-day that some people here are just having wet dreams of this film's failure at the box office. I'm sure everybody here is excited for it, and the haters can't wait to give Cameron their money and then come back here to troll the film (even if their mind is conflicted because they enjoyed it).
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Joe Johnston's fucking Wolfman!! It's getting way too easy to spot the trolls.
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It's not me. But his stuff is hilarious and true! No idea if he posts here, but I'm certain he's aware of this place.
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—and he usually doesn't. So, they latch on to the idea that he'll fail on the next one. Nope. Et cetera, et cetera…I'm sure he's used to it by now.
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really awsome sci-fi action sweetness coming our way. And it looks so damn epic. I really feel sorry for all the bitter, cynical fanboys that have deceided to hate this no matter what...
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hoooooooooooooooooooooo!
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vampires
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maybe if Harry made a cameo, it would make money. It's not too late!
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"dances with wolves in space" etc ad naseum. As if DWW invented that type of story. Nevermind that its a far older type of story, or that Avatar is inspired and influenced by John Carter of Mars and Dune. Two classic examples of that type of story that precede DWW by decades...So then Star Wars:ANH sucks I guess because its just Hidden Fortress in space. Star Trek sucks because its just Forbidden planet with aliens. Jurrasic Park sucks because its just Westworld with dinosaurs, ah hell, the list just goes on and on....
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vampires, Harry Potter, Chewbaca, in 3d = box office gold. Cut out the thundersmurfs and replace them with wookies.
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When I said "I'm not seeing it", I meant "I'm not buying it". Bad choice of words.
Yeah, I'll see it, and pay full admission price. Better to patronize a madman with a compromised vision than a Hollywood hack like Michael Bay any day of the week (Emmerich gets a free pass because, like Verhoeven, he's such a glorious asshole).
But listen, motherfucker (and I'm talking to Cameron, and Lucas, and Tarantino)...every time you hear that funny little voice in the back of your head asking "was this the right artistic choice, or was I just capitulating to my ego or my producers"? It's me. And I strangle a puppy every time I sense the answer is "yes".
Doesn't help that I'm a cat person anyway... -
we all hate this movie because we feel repressed guilt for slaughtering the American Indians. Bad move, Cameron. Unless the marines win. Then everyone will love it.
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I strangle a puppy every time the answer is "no".
All the same, a lot of puppies get strangled. The giant wild boars that protect my estate get hungry, and once it got clear to intruders that the "Beware" sign wasn't a joke, cheap meat got pretty hard to come by. -
Remember - It's only a very, very small percentage of Muslims who feel that way. If you don't remember that, you're an asshole.
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you can find it at avatarmoviezone.com
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show up and wipes out the humans.
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It may gone or I'm just too high.
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Fucking Yoda Cartoon from Episode 2 has NOTHING on Empire Yoda. There are cases where both things used together look AMAZING. And CGI is a tool, but here's the problem, it's like LENSFLARE was for people on the web doing shitty Photoshopping abour six years ago...everyone can get their hands on it. These things still look like cartoons to me. The only thing that will blow my socks off will be if I'm told that EVERYTHING and EVERYONE in this trailer are CG. Then, they've fucking fooled me.The Skeksis as CGI will look fakey and fucking dumb. When you have something practical on set, actors tend to respond better, and another great example of practical helping CGI is Jurassic Park.Just saying Johnno, CGI ain't the new reigning champ, if AVATAR is the bar. Where the Wild Things Are should be the new bar.
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So I could get that shot of the sad, crying girl Na'avi and put a lolcaption under it that reads: ABOUT TO FAIL
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I can't get enough I must see 3 hundred more trailers of this thing. COME ON PEOPLE!!!
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BUT THIS-IS-AWESOME! CAMERON IS STILL THE KING! FUCKING A!
Fire the guy who cut the first trailer, please... -
Maybe to us movie geeks, and even then, it's more like latching onto a few snippets here and there from Cameron or that Soderberg quote, but the larger movie-going audience, the one that actually decides whether or not something is a gigantic hit, is still pretty clueless about Avatar. I even have movie geek friends who just don't go on aicn (yes, they exist) and were kind of in the dark about it before the first trailer.I think this looks pretty amazing, if not photo realistic but I imagine this will be the first movie where the 3D contributes greatly to the experience... to the point where seeing it in 2D is like the difference between pan-and-scan and widescreen. That's what I'm hoping anyway... even if those hopes are dashed, it's cool to get big, ambitious, sci-fi action/adventure movies like this from people like Cameron. If you're going to give the money to someone to do this sort of thing, give it to him, not to people like Bay and JJ.
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page, but if not then try totalfilm.com they also have it embedded.
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have to realize that some people mistake the fanboy/geek film sites as reality/the general public, so they think because its been so discussed on thses sites, that equals over-hype. Meanwhile, back in the real world, the vast majority of people have not even heard of this film, and this traier will probably be most people's first view of Avatar. Imho Cameron has played this quite smart inmaking sure tha tthe general public is nt sick of advertising for it months in advance, or making us all feel like we have already seen the damn thing....
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This movie is going to be fucking brilliant!
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Oct 24, 2009 1:47:44 AM CDT
I really don't understand why Fox couldn't release the trailer
by blakindigo
already. It's obviously playing in theatres. Is their strategy to build up hype for the web premiere? Maybe some contractual thing with Apple? Just release the damn quicktime or AVI.
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Because I hope that I love it. I really do. Aliens and The Terminator were two of my favorite movies EVER. But James Cameron has also done some stuff that I utterly hate. Like Terminator 2 and The Abyss. And everything I've seen is screaming at me that this is going to be another preachy-ass eco-friendly movie that relies way too much on a stupid fucking message. Everything I've seen makes me think this is gonna be The Abyss Part 2.
And you know, fuck that. I don't give a fuck about the 3D bullshit. I don't give a fuck about realistic CGI. Hell dude, the Star Wars prequels looked pretty good, and the effects in The Fly look sort of cheap by today's standards. Guess which movie I'd rather watch right now? I don't give a fuck about the tech shit or the realistic CGI or the mindblowing 3D. I just want a good movie that doesn't suck ass. But unfortunately, this just looks to me (aka, a casual viewer) as another preachy eco-tale like The Abyss. Fuck that shit. Let us not forget that James Cameron's best movies were the ones where he wasn't a preachy little dweeb meditating on how much people suck. In the "people suck" category, we have Terminator 2 and The Abyss. Both of which suffered immensely for their lack of internal logic and overall preachy and condescending attitude. -
in the "people don't suck" area, we have Aliens, The Terminator, and True Lies. For the record, let me start by stating that True Lies was shit. So that's not a good thing, but at least it didn't think it was more than it was. It was a dumbass Schwarzenegger-driven movie about kicking peoples' asses in entertaining ways. Movie was shit, but at least it was ENTERTAINING and it didn't fucking talk down to me. Same thing with Aliens. Aliens had an ugly message, but it was fucking badass and well-made. It certainly has early hints of Cameron's preachy tendencies, as seen in Ripley's comment that "I don't know which species is worse. At least we don't see them fucking each over for a goddamn percentage". But Aliens didn't get preachy. For all of the nasty overtones about how the Aliens were reduced to mere animals, for all the notion that the Aliens are just as alien as the humans and that at least the Aliens had NO CHOICE in being on LV-426, the answer is still very clear. Wipe them out. Kill every last goddamn member of the species, even though they are out in the middle of nowhere on a lifeless rock. They must die because of who they are,m and because they stand in the way of mankind occupying every single piece of land that stands in its way. Cameron could have ABSOLUTELY turned that movie into a cheesy preachy eco-tale. But he didn't, and god bless him for that. The ugly undertones are always there, but he doesn't run with that. He runs with the "kill every goddamn Alien alive" story. And the result is just plain fucking badass without being insulting.
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Oct 24, 2009 2:17:44 AM CDT
veebeeyes, is that really what you think "Aliens" is about?
by blakindigo
Seriously?
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But the undertones are there, and I challenge you to refute that. I don't know exactly what the official story is on WHY James Cameron turned the Aliens from ghastly horrors into what are essentially giant bugs, but that's what he did, isn't it? He turned them into giant Alien Ants (or bees, if you prefer, since ants don't have hives). Like it or not, but by turning them into mere "animals" there's a LOT of subtext about mankind's domination over a kind of animal, and the resulting effects. Again, like I said, you can choose to IGNORE this aspect. Because James Cameron didn't try to hit us over the head with it. But that aspect was there. You can choose to focus on Ripley's relationship with Newt, with the way that she dealt with her fears, and the way that the Marines got themselves into a world of shit because of their overconfidence. But that is NOT all that there is to the movie. The ecological aspect is ABSOLUTELY there, in the deliberate decision to make the Aliens mere animals, and as well as in the decision to make the real enemy Mankind for being so irresponsible with a natural resource. That's not what Aliens is "about", but that shit is THERE, and I will defend that to the death. My point is, in Aliens, that shit is there to the extent that you CHOOSE to see it. If you want to completely IGNORE that aspect, fine. The movie still works. That's because the movie IS NOT PREACHY. It doesn't hit you on the head with that stuff. By contrast, T2 and The Abyss DID hit me over the head with that kind of message. And it was fucking annoying and insulting, particularly when the "message" of those movies didn't hold up.
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It's sad when people write these paragraphs long things on movies like fucking Aliens.
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the goddamn concept of fucking terraforming. The very idea that we're so dominant over the universe that we can fucking MAKE THE AIR BREATHABLE. If that isn't an implicit example of human hubris, then what the fuck is? Most of the colonial marines have never killed an intelligent target. Hudson asks, "is this just another bughunt"? The damn dropship has an icon on it that says "Bugstompers: We Kill Bugs". Doesn't that say SOMETHING? That the damn Marine Corps has essentially been reduced to the level of interstellar exterminators, going to distant worlds and wiping out the native goddamn bugs because the "dumbass colonists" were stupid as hell? That's what these guys do. The Marines have been reduced to a force who shoot lots of bugs when colonists colonize places that they had no business colonizing. This shit is ABSOLUTELY there, and it plays right into why these heavily armed intelligent soldiers managed to get themselves into such a shitty situation to begin with. When people colonize a new world, and get in trouble with the life there, the Marines show up to wipe out the native fauna. That has become the primary role of these guys...shooting bugs and maybe the occasional bear or something. And that's at least part of the reason why shit goes bad.
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—and any decent media studies course would explain why pop culture has it's place in understanding the political and social ideas of a population. Pop phenomena is an imprint of a societies psyche at a specific historical moment.Yes, even something like "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen," a film that you aggressively defend, has an important place in that context. That movie still "stinks", but it has merit as a cultural phenomenon.
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but I think I can honestly say that I'd rather think about Aliens instead of anything else you've ever said.
So...maybe I am overthinking Aliens. But Aliens is still more thought provoking than any comments I've seen from you. So might I politely suggest that you try shutting the fuck up? -
That was rude, and i apologize. As much as I disagree, you are entitled to your opinion. Please forgize me for being mean.
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Nothing else matters.
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It's very well made all of it's budget back and more, and we're guaranteed a third. why argue that?
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How does it feel to be justified? Avatar is going to fuck all our eyeballs in a few weeks. Bring it.
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Right on. Now we're cooking huh?
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dude, For me T2 and Abyss were not preachy (im not knocking your view), and actually I think both films just like Aliens, dont hammer over the head with the message. Anyway, good sci-fi has always been allegorical in nature and used its ideas, visuals, action etc...to make comments on sociopolitical issues. Otherwise TOS trek sucks, LOTR sucks (it has a pretty strong anti-war, anti-industrialization, pro-enviromentalism message) etc....I guess its all in how its handled dude, but I can not see how T2 "preached"...unless its the message that bothers you...
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“His greatest contribution, and what is truly inspiring to other film makers, is that he never allows the technology to overwhelm his story and characters. The big budget action, fantasy, sci-fi genre has become stigmatised as loud dumb films with nothing to say - just look at the big budget movies of this last summer - but that's never the case with Jim's movies. He cares about his story and characters, and crafts his scripts brilliantly well.”
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so damn cool. As I said I feel sorry for all the jaded, cynical fanboys that have made up their minds to find anything and everthing to hate about this. I think the mainstream (the vast majority of filmgoers) are going to be very pleasantly suprised by this film....
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"When I asked Cameron about the fan response to the trailer, he focussed on the record number of downloads that the trailer had on Apple.com, rather than the content of the responses on-line. The people around him were more explicit, talking about "the haters" being a fringe group who, because of the Internet, have a platform. Cameron is probably somewhat inured to negativity after the lead-up to "Titanic"—or maybe bad buzz gives him confidence that his movie will be huge."
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The trailer shows that Avatar is well written and acted, has an exciting premise and is visually astounding. Cameron is back. I can't wait.
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was suggested in the first film. Cameron definitely amplified that element of humanities venal and genocidal behaviour. It's definitely true that the subtext of territoriality is a part of "Aliens" but, it not like some futuristic 'manifest destiny' gone awry. The terraforming is most likely for assembling resources and is more survival based than say, a 'divine right of kings' idea. The "Octurian poontang" exchange by the Marines, suggest they aren't simply 'exterminators' but, that humanity has engaged in useful exchanges between different alien species. The Giger monstrosities are, of course, devoid of anything other than pure survival instinct.The Ripley/Newt relationship is VITAL to the entire narrative; without that element the film doesn't work at all. It's the primary driving force of the stroy in the second act and it's parallel relationship of the Queen Alien to her eggs/hive is the major conflict in the third act. Now, I think you could make an argument for the Colonial Marines as a protector/dominator in that context, but the ecological world of "Aliens" is hostile and unforgiving. It parallels the aliens mode of survival. The Marines are a DEFENSE, not perpetrators of genocide. Based on Ripley's debriefing and reports they came unprepared for the worst and their overconfidence was their undoing (parallels to the U.S.A in Vietnam) .
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its amazing how the haters forget how admired Cameron is by other top film makers. Even the great Stanly Kubrick spent an afternoon making Cameron watch True Lies with him at his house(he owned a film print of it) while makng Cameron explain how he did the fx, shot scenes etc....
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vietnam allegory...
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for me came down not to the overall theme of the movie, but rather the little snippets of comment that were mostly coming from Sarah Connor. Shit like how The Terminator was the perfect father because he'd do whatever anyone told him to without question. Goews back to the notion of the dumbass brute dad who doesn't know shit but is a good dad because he follows orders and can beat people up. Sort of like a Homer Simpson, minus free will and any kind of personal desires. It's like, the whole kind of feminist/gay/black rights thing. Where oppressed people deservedly strive for rights and respect, but a certain percentage of them completely swing the other way and say "men are evil" or "kill whitey". That's what it was like watching T2. And by extension, this went to ALL of the protagonists. John Connor says, "we're not gonna make it, are we?" when he sees two kids playing cops and robbers with waterguns. This despite the fact that he's watching CHILDREN shooting each other with WATERGUNS. This being the goddamn day after John Connor hacked into someone's bank account and stole hundreds of dollars.
The Terminator says, "yes. It is in your nature to destroy yourself." This beibng DESPE the fact that the Terminator KNOWS that it ISN:T humans who destroy humanity. It's the goddamn TERMINATORS.
Then the whole reverse-feminism thing pops up again after Sarah Connor nearly murders Miles Dyson in front of his fucking family, and then has the balls to say to him "you don't know how to create, all you know how to do is destroy. Have you ever created a life and then felt it groing inside you for nine months?"
And again...bullshit. Miles Dyson created Skynet, and skynet is sentient. Skynet counts as life, albeit artificial. Furthermore, Skynet detroys nearly all of humanity and liberates the oppressed robots. To date, what the fuck has John Connor done, aside from stealing petty cash from honest hardworking people? Furthermore, Miles Dyson had to put serious work into creating Skynet. All Sarah Connor had to do was get fucked. Sarah Connor pissed me off immensely in that movie. She's like the annoying Bible-thumper who doesn't know dick about shit, yet is constantly making fucking stupid comments about dumbass shit in inappropriate moments. Textbook example of an annoying zealot. -
the work by ILM and other VFX Teams = stunning.The sound design = superb.The cinematography = gorgeous.The pacing, narrative, humour and subtext (hell, the TEXT) of the movie = just below "Van Helsing," on the scale of incomprehensible, so-bad-its-good-but-'well made' movie.Good or even GREAT craftsmen/craftswomen does not guarantee a great movie.
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about TF2, I did nt like it, but so what? Obviously you did. And ultimatly you are at least enthusiastic about most films, and not a cynical bitter fanboy....
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skynet destroyed humans, thus we destoyed ourselves through the creation of such a powerful weapon,kind of like nuclear bombs. Nothing illogical about that scene at all. And I disagree with Sarahs monolouges as being preachy, I would argue that they are just being used to show her state of mind insofar as it has changed regarding her thoughts and feelings towards the terminator, esecially as she has partly lost her own huanity and in effect becomes the terminator in the scene where she is going to kill dyson..
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Yes, you're entirely right thst the Ripley/Newt relationship is the driving force of the movie. Like I said, Aliens isn't "about" any kind of ecological matters. That stuff is all background at best. But dude...look at the Alien Queen. As you stated, she OBVIOUSLY paralleled the relationship between Newt and Ripley. The Queen was about to let Ripley and Newt walk right out of the hive. Right up until Ripley went apeshit insane and started blowing up everything that was alive. The Queen didn't exhibit defensive or predatory behavior, it exhibited INTELLIGENCE, and acted as if it wanted to get REVENGE on Ripley. It acted as if it had been hurt EMOTIONIALLY, and we saw how this played out. Cameron DELIBERATELY painted the Alien Queen as something that had been WRONGED. The end result has two effects. For one thing, this paints Ripley's actions as just plain stupid. Especially given that all the Aliens were about to die in about 4 minutes anyway, and given that the Queen gave her free pass to simply walk away, we have to say "Jesus, Ripley, what the fuck?!" And seondly, the fact that the Alien Queen DOES pursue Ripley to that extent sort of indicates that the Queen's emotional pain is just as real and as valid as Ripley's. This being supported by the fact that the Alien Queen is intelligent how to figure out how to poerate mechanical lifts that it has probably never seen before during its entire life.
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and it's also why she is seen as a flawed character. She's a waitress who becomes a warrior battling a culture she cannot trust, because it's reliance on technological (masculine) ideals, reduces interpersonal (feminine) ideals until it, literally, extinguishes them.She becomes so consumed with the IDEA of John Connor's role in saving humanity, that she's blind to her own role in saving her son's humanity. She 'becomes' the machine she's most afraid of. A machine has taken her lover, her son's father and from her p.o.v. "trusting men" is a blind alley condoning humanities destructive urges.
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Blaming humans for Skynet's actions is like blaming Hitler's mom for everything that Adolf Hitler did. People are sentient autonomous agents, and so was Skynet.
And while I agree that the scene in which she is about to kill Miles Dyson shows that she has become the very thing that she hated, I disagree that the protagonists (Sarah, John, and The Terminator) are NOT supposed to collectively serve as the window of the movie's morality. The quotes I've referred to were made AFTER Sarah Connor has seen what kind of monster she has become, and these kinds of statements were also repeated by both John Connor AND The Terminator. While in Terminator mode, the only real statement that Sarah Connor makes is "no fate but what we make". -
Oct 24, 2009 3:52:20 AM CDT
Yup, Ripley's hatred/fear of the aliens and her need for revenge
by blakindigo
for all the colonists, Marines, her old shipmates 57 years earlier. I'd definitely be 'nuking it from orbit.' At that point, it's intelligent alien vs human survival. Well, humans can redeem themselves; that Giger horror? Let's ask Dallas, or Brett, or Kane what they think, eh?
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but notice, the T-800 has switched roles with John (Killer becomes Child) while Sarah becomes the Killer. John is essentially the only moral ballast of the movie. "You can't just kill someone." "Why?"He becomes the leader of this ragtag group of 'humans'. He stops his mother from killing an 'innocent man' (technologists are evil in this story), AND he helps get his mother to reconnect with her humanity (alternate ending).Not bad for a 13 year old.
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Veebeeyes, your comments are well thought out and valid. But ultimately T2 wasn't let down by being preachy it was let down by being 'family friendly'.
THE TERMINATOR was a serious-minded piece of sci-fi, T2 was more hokey in ramming a message down our throats but to have the 'ultimate killing machine' quipping "I need a vacation" and giving a thumbs up while sinking into lava made the movie feel like it was set in a different universe to the first (just like MAD MAX 3 feels diff from MAD MAX 2).
In many ways TERMINATOR SALVATION stands as a more honest direct sequel to the original, as a piece of serious-minded sci fi (shame the plot was so shit).
I'm not saying T2 was a bad film - simply one more designed for family viewing than the harder hitting original. -
Why should an Alien have any more need to redeem itself to people than you or I have to redeem ourselves to a flock of chickens? Aliens are predators. So are we. The Aliens were BORN on LV-426 and had no choice in the matter. Humans CHOSE to go there in pursuit of conquest of the galaxy. And as far as the relationship between Ripley and Newt, the Alien Queen has JUST as much reason to get pissed off. At least when Ripley was threatened, SHE was the Alien. The Queen was BORN on LV-426. Ripley walked right into her HOME and started lobbing grenades in the fucking bedroom. And yeah...even if Ripley or any of the other colonists had no "right" to be there, that doesn't invalidate Ripley's feelings of need to get revenge in a brutal and bloody manner. The thing is, if we accept that, then the Queen was EQUALLY justified in going to extreme measures to try to rip Ripley's and Newt's heads off. Everyone's an Alien, and everyone is a victim of things that were wrongly done to them.
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eggs began opening as ripley was leaving, she knew she wouldn't get out of there alive. The queen sees ripley enter the lift and after a little tilt of her head like an intrigued dog, follows in the one that just arrives. And it seems your dislike for T2 seems to come from some clunky dialog more than the story.
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is that people can get into discussions about it because his work has thematic depth, something sadly absent from Abrams, McG, Bay, Sommers etc who focus soley on eye candy.
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that line was an ad lib by Arnie which Cameron liked because it showed he was learning after removing that chip
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Oct 24, 2009 4:22:05 AM CDT
Ripley walked into a living room, decorated with her surrogate "
by blakindigo
as embryonic hosts. Grenades were a good parting gift. It's the least she could do…the Queen alien was such a gracious host for Ripley and family…
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He's only directed two features and there is a lot to talk about in the new "Star Trek". I wouldn't lump him with Bay of Sommers. And, McG has only made one SF genre work theatrically. With a good script I think he might surprise a lot of people.
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"I need a vacation"
Charyou, it's a fun quip - gets a laugh from the audience. Not suprised to hear it's an Arnie ad-lib. But the fact Cameron used it is is also indicative of T2 being more palatable for 'mass market consumption'. -
So you're putting Kevin Reynolds on the same footing as James Cameron?
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Cameron’s imagination was shaped by the Cold War; the threat of nuclear annihilation is a recurring theme. But he also admires the military and its accessories. “I suppose you could say I believe in peace through superior firepower,” he told me. “I don’t believe that the human race is going to suddenly evolve to the point that we can all join hands and sing ‘Kumbaya.’
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To suggest so is to misinterpret that scene. Yes, ONE egg opened. Ripley could have easily shot that ONE egg instead of wasting all of her ammo and having to stand there with no means of defending herself. The scene had very little to do with Ripley defending herself, because at that point SHE was in a position of power. The whole movie, she and the marines had been trying to keep the Alien invaders out. Now Ripley is the invader, she has the Queen by the balls (not that a Queen would have balls), and the scene was about her realeasing her bloodlust and her need for revenge by doing something both ugly and stupid. Everyone correctly sees the Alien Queen as being comparable to Ripley, but I think fewer people recognize this particular scene as portraying Ripley as becoming what she has hated. I think we can draw comparisons between this scene and the scene in T2 where Sarah Connor tries to kill Miles Dyson. The Nest Massacre scene IS a scene of Ripley becoming a malevolent alien invader, and it is the ONE scene in the movie where her actions truly are pretty ugly. As well as tactically stupid. This is critical, as when the Queen subsequently pursues her, it amplifies the tensions between Ripley and the Queen as both of them have truly been WRONGED. On this level they are EQUALS, with an equal grudge, and this is why Ripley is stripped of her guns for her final battle. So that they can FIGHT as equals. Anyway, as far as T2, I have a LOT of problems with it. I merely think that being preachy is probably the only problem (that T2 had) that will also be in Avatar. And since this is an Avatar discussion, I focused on that. I hate a LOT of things about T2, but many of those things relate to T2's faithfulness to the first movie. So since Avatar isn't a sequel, most of those complainsts probably simply won't apply to Avatar.
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No, I don't rate Abrams or McG at all. That shot of Spock standing before the council where the camera starts on a dutch angle is an excellent example. Why is that shot there? What is its purpose? It's like putting a child behind the camera. He's the anti-Cameron. Watch MI3 and True Lies back-to-back, Abrams is in the playpen compared to Cameron's grasp of cinema.
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and wasn't T2 the first 100 million dollar movie. Cameron doesn't like making concessions but he ain't stupid he knew T2 had to make more money I suppose.
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Well, just watch this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSOJoIvFZKo
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I actually hate a fair bit of Cameron's stuff, for various reasons. But one thing I think we can all say is that that he is a great filmmaker and that (at least as far as science fiction goes) we don't see many other prominent filmmakers inspiring this kind of discussion. Love him or hate him, most of his movies have a kind of depth that is sadly lacking in the genre.
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Good thoughts on the Alien Queen confrontation. Going into the womb of the enemy to become the enemy is true enough. She has to rescue her most intimate family member ('her' child, Newt) But, if that 'womb' is decorated with my surrogate family, then yeah, I'm 'salting the earth' before I leave.
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There are almost no original stories, every movie can be compared to another movie, to a book, to old fables.
District 9 was a brilliant movie,the underlying story is far from original, the execution of the story, the direction, the script, the characters, the acting was all top notch, thats what made the movie what is was.
Jim Cameron has been the man on so many occasions, he gets characters, execution of story etc. -
I'm not comparing Abrams to Cameron. No. NO. Nononono…I'm saying there are things worth discussing in his movies.I'll say nothing about that McG interview because…well…um, (facepalm).
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Granted, the "preachiness" in T2 still probably would have grated on my nerves. But it was less preachy than Thy Abyss, and I PROBABLY would have given the movie good marks. If only it wasn't a sequel to The Terminator.
Meh, maybe I'm being unfair by judging it as a sequel, but that's how it works. If the Star Wars prequels hadn't been Star Wars movies, I suspect that most people would have liked them more too. -
Yeah, don't worry. I know where you're coming from. And that McG interview is wrong on so many levels!
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"It was the most intense movie I've seen in my life…was it in 3D?"
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Cameron would probably murder her. What did you make of the new trailer?
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you really believe she could shoot that one egg and still walk out alive? You see it in ripleys face a kinda "you cheeky bitch" as the egg opens, it feels like a Han Solo shoots first comparisons. And not to forget the main and most important reason ripley does what she does, is because it's a fuckin awesome moment of action cinema.
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I do kind of agree with you but I think your reading to much into that scene, think about this, what would you have done at that moment, you have few seconds to react, and your in that hive, I think ripleys acting on instinct which is how great warriors survive.
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I think you're wrong dude, but not long to wait to find out now. As for it having a crap story, well, it's basically the hero's journey isn't it? I'm really excited about the story, I like the elements Cameron has in place, the disruption of paradise, man's avarice, the soldiers redemption. When was the last time these kind of story elements were handled in a big-budget studio film?
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—but, I'm still biased; that 15 min 3D presentation is just too good to beat.
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—nobody has seen the actual movie yet, except maybe, Weta Digital and ILM.
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released. That's the one that supposed to be tons 'o fun.
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Seriously, it's tired. The CGI/Crap thing. It's done. Really. Time for something else to misunderstand.
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kwisa, thanks for posting that interview dude. One of the most insightful and intelligent pieces of journalism i've ever seen! As you say, love to see her interview Cameron..
"I was soooo impressed with the make-up. It must have been tough finding so many tall people. What? CGI? Is that in Europe?" -
1. the 2d/3d thing.*
2. the story and camerons achilles heel which is dialoug.
3. the na'vi.
the obstacle with 2d/3d is that it that it is not widespread. it costs fortune to install every cinema with this technolgy. It is nearly november. the hype so far has been quiet. that makes me wonder are the studio nervous. I live in europe, so maybe there is more buzz about in the states. -
And McG's double-take when she said TS was the best in the series. That comment clearly broke his brain.
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emeraldboy can regular cinemas not show the film in 3D?
I remember going to all sorts of fleapits in my youth and seeing 3d movies with the old green/red glasses. They could show 3D films back then but they cant now? Sounds like technology going backwards to me. -
...ALIENS for me. The first job of a movie like ALIENS is to kick ass and be exciting.I think the larger political and philosophical stuff you guys are reading into it are largely accidental...a product of the process.Cameron grew up and was making movies during the cold war...his dad was a hard-ass engineer type...this stuff is very interesting in a trivia sense...what makes this guy tick. But they aren't keys to some message.The great thing about Cameron is he will grab any tool, any piece of autobiography, whatever is around to make a more pulse pounding story. Likewise I think he would throw any idea overboard to make a tighter scene.What's most interesting about Cameron is how he crafts his best movies. Damn things fit together like a ticking time bomb Swiss made roller-coaster. Aliens is exciting every damn time you see...it. You know exactly how it's going to turn out, but you just can't help yourself.
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this movie going to get a general releas. if so are all cinemas going to kitted out with the technology to see this film. will it only be shown in select cinemas. with imax technology. that is the point i am getting at amonst others
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thx sound. they are still using dolby digital in the uk and ireland.
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Oct 24, 2009 7:26:12 AM CDT
there are still TBers here thinking Avatar 3D is green/red glass
by theplant
Where have you guys been ? Not paying attention I suppose.
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Oct 24, 2009 7:30:18 AM CDT
Trailer was better than the first one
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
But questions remain. The biggest is will it look real enough for the non geek to go out of way to see it? Yerp, it is guaranteed to open massive. It is Cameron the director of well you know, but Sherlock Holmes opens the following week. RDJ has big chops and the mature audience as well as the adventure audience could be sucked away. I aint saying that will happen, but if this is just a big ol cartoon but not being marketed as a cartoon, then, audiences might feel suckered. And that could cause word of mouth backlash even if it kicks da bootahy.
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No, the Aliens are mindless monsters. They're not some creature that would, left to its own devices, live peacibly by themselves. They live to destroy and consume, and if even ONE landed on a populated world, whether we claimed the world as our own or not, within months all life would be Alien life.Ripley looks around, and we are only shown one egg opening at the time, but the fact is she can tell that the Queen has been trying to position her to get choked out by the crabbies with the balls hanging down on either side. Ripley's delivery of that line says 'Oh, I see..detente is just the way you fuckers kill us more efficiently.'Ripley did what had to be done, her mission before coming to the planet was to kill them all, because again, if even ONE survives, we lose.And, more to the point. ALL DONE PRACTICALLY, WITH NO COMPUTER ENHANCED ALIENS, which made it fucked up and realistic. The puppet Queen is a landmark achievement in special effects, ask Stan Winston. And here's a strange inside Hollywood political thought: Do you think that all these zombie movies might be making directors and special effects people happy because of all the practical effects and gags that have to be done? Greg Nicotero is seeing more work than ever! Anyway, I disagree with the idea that Ripley did it to be a fucking jerkoff. She did it because the other option was the possibility of the eradication of all other life in the universe.
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theplant, you're not paying attention. I know they're not green/red 3D glasses anymore. The point I wanted clarifying is whether regular cinemas can show AVATAR in 3D? (if not then perhaps that is a 'step backwards' for 3D cinema, no?)
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micturatingb, actually 'the other option' was Ripley getting in the elevator and laughing her ass off from orbit 5 minutes later as the queen and her nest were blown to smithereens.
But that wouldn't have made such a cool movie! -
Oct 24, 2009 8:06:26 AM CDT
Whole buncha folks in here work for Fox
by hey_kobe_tell_me_how_my_ass_tastes
I'm just sayin
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Im excited for this movie now.
SUPER EXCITED MUTHA FUCKA
Oh, JAMES CAMERON if your reading this.
LOOKS LIKE YOU DID IT RIGHT, CONGRATS BRO -
there will be to showings of this movie. one in 2d and one 3d. at least that is what happens in my cinema in dun laoghaire.
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It's like JC was reading my mind. Win
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Cameron's best movie after Aliens.
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i think there are maybe 4 talkbackers who are looking foward to avatar. oh and, TurdontheRun? you are going to rip me a new asshole? well, im not gay so, im not interested in your advances. you should yelp some gay bars in your town.
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because of the stories that surrounded the making of it. here is what i find odd thougn. the abyss shoot was legendary for its on set altercations between fox studio execs and cameron. you would have thought that that would make a filmmaker very bitter about his experiences and say i will never work with that studio again. and cameron kept coming back to fox time and again. strange....
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dark crystal is better than avatar will ever be. fact.
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in your life, now fight!!!!!"
my favorite cheesey movie line ever! -
Transformers 2 for people who think their cool.
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i think it is outrageous and scandalous that jim hensons creature shop has never been acknowledge by the industry in the area of creation and innovation. if they are looking to do a new award the academy could and should give them the stan winston award or the irving g thalberg award or maybe even the Cecille b demill award. Henson was a creator, inventor and pioneer. Creature shop deserve something..now back to avatar.
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Abrams,Orci and Kutzman together.Without lube.
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Actually The Abyss is Cameron's favourite film that he's made. He mentioned it in an interview years ago.
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One of the nice things about Avatar is it exposing all those filmmakers as the fuck-ups they really are. Time for the amateurs to leave the building.
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the only thing i didnt like was the design of the aliens and their structures,well because there were not too alien.They reminded me more then skates,after all the artists must have based on them,since we are talking about oceanic lifeforms.But anyway the Abyss is one of the best scifi movies ever.The directors cut version that is.
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time for the master to show to the novices,how the real thing is done.
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just pretend that the Navi are the "water controllers"
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The movie looks amazing even in this form, and i dont know why is everyone Delgo this, if anyone has seen Delgo it dont look like this at all. Battle for terra plain out has the same plot, same commander and all and people dont seem to notice, why? cause they stole the plot from Avatar...
truth be told the trailer looks amazing even in bootleg mode, some people just want to see transformers 3 and that is sad. -
Right on, The Abyss is a beautiful piece of work. And Ed Harris is just brilliant in it, he brought real power and emotion to the role.
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u better believe it
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Yes, it is arguably Cameron's best, filled with watery metaphor and a pretty nakedly disguised rumination on his marriage troubles at the time. The 'preachy' accusations are a load of crap. Unlike the black holes of lesser blockbuster filmmakers the man actually has something to say, and really most of those are tropes that go all the way back to literary sci-fi of the golden era. Most good sci-fi is a cautionary tale. The only complaint about The Abyss is that the most powerful moment (the drowning and resurrection) comes before the third act, making things a tad ant-climactic (balanced out somewhat in the director's cut version)- but that's a minor criticism.Oh and Nerd Boy; you're absolutely right. I should leave you alone. All you really want is attention, like a spoiled toddler. I, and everyone else, should deny you that.
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Avatar>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Transformers 2>>>>>>>Stargate.Am I right, brother?
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STAR WARS> Stargate > everything else > DOG POOP > AVATAR
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so its a bit silly to compare it with other scifi movies.
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and such. Still seeing this motherfucker at midnight in IMAX 3D though!
Can't wait till the thundersmurfs pop my eye cherries. -
absolutely awesome,but still it wont succeed to surpass TF2 in box office.is it not,ironic? or sad?
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people's mind about a movie,is changed because of a better edited trailer.its like if the quality of the trailer is magically connected to the quality of the movie,a movie who NOBODY has fucking seen.
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AVATURD looks ugly
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Oct 24, 2009 1:06:55 PM CDT
"(Emmerich gets a free pass because, like Verhoeven, he's such a
by wookie1972
The funniest thing I've read in a loong time.
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Oct 24, 2009 1:13:08 PM CDT
"ILM is better than WETA" 'cause they work on the same movie
by blakindigo
And…I'm Polanski's 11 year old Swiss maid…
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again ! Abyss would be improved tenfold if the death of coffey and ressurection of Lindsay = climax. Imagine, all the third part of the movie happening in the middle act, and then ))
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the girl at the end.James Bond should kneel before him.
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Spiderman numbers like 400 million easy!
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i must say i enjoy the dissection of T2 & aliens by you three. sometimes i thought i'd agree with veeb, then blakindigo & southafricanguy convinced me otherwise, and vice versa. please debate often. all of you are correct as far as i'm concerned. :)
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If it hits a cultural nerve perhaps more. Young boys/teenagers are gonna flock to this. And i'll be seeing it a few times too.
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...I'm obsessing on this. I spent 30 seconds digging on rbatty024 and came up with a slew of letters to the editor at SALON and other New York centric publications...I'm starting to wonder if this isn't an inside job.Granted, it's a good line, but...
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The thing is, EMpire Yoda can't fight and be as spectacular on the same level as prequel Yoda. Don't get me wrong I don't mind puppets so much. But they are a product of their time and were used well enough. But now we expect more if the possibility is there. It really all comes down to what you want to do with it. If your character is ust going to sit there, then puppets are fine. If your character is going to do all kinds of crazy stuff, then CG is the only way to do it.
In Avatar the digital characters are like Andy Cirkus, they're all real actors performing with each other it's not like they're acting against something they can't see (most of the time). And Cameron has indeed developed ways for actors to better play off of digital sets/creatures/actors. You should read up on some of the crazy tools he's made using virtual filmaking. It's not quite at the level when you use a physical presense, but it's getting better and in time I believe they'll figure out ways to make it better. And on top of that Cameron still very much believes in using physical props when required, and Avatar does have them. But again, depending on what crazy shit you want to do with them, you may find that you've got no alternative but to go with CG because it will produce a better effect or simply because what you want to do is impossible with physical props or in some rare cases, it might even be cheaper.
Wild Things looks cool, and what they do is sutable for what it is. But even they have CG work done to make them better. Because to build a prosthetic that mimics the expressions of something close to the human face and muscle is a freaking technological nightmare that scientists and technicians still cannot figure out yet. Until then there's CG.
And despite the Photoshop analogy. Lens flare's are still a legitimate effect you'll need from time to time. The difference is that professional artists know when they're needed and will correctly paint in their own lens flares when required and not use the crappy automatic plug-ins that come with the program. -
Yea sounds fishy, also anyone know if JettL93 has posted since someone said he was either Lucas' son or something?
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Can't we all just predict this movie to some extent.
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.
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Humans are basically greedy scum (think The Company in Aliens)
Soldiers tools of government and of The Company.
Natives told they have to submit to human will
The natives are treated like animals
They rebel and kill some humans
Humans decide on new strategy.
They send in what's his name-- the terminator guy "undercover"-- even though he knows nothing of the culture, etc...
He realizes "OMG they are not animals", especially after he bangs a female native and falls in love.
He witnesses human atrocities.
He learns of a massive human plan to wipe them out.
He has some difficult decision to make-- who should I fight for?
He chooses a side.
Massive battle.
Ending?
Both sides "lose"-- yet form a lasting relationship.
He decides to stay on the planet.
OK james cameron-- wow me with the movie please !!!!
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= Avatar
I wonder if the "apologetic" sub-message in this will be broadcast as loud and clear as I think it will be. -
*THWACK!!*
Whatever you say about The Abyss, it still has to this very day the most satisfying and vicariously thrilling punch ever filmed. You know what I'm talking about--when The Hammer shows up in the nick of time and fucking PWNS Coffey, who is in the process of strangling Bud.
The roar that the crowd delivered in the theater at that moment was deafening. A great, great moment. -
Oct 24, 2009 3:57:00 PM CDT
TurdontheRun, is jacking off to the abyss right now
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
the abyss is mediocre at best. the only thing that movie is known for is a cgi water penis. and a heavy handed environmental message. kame.
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It was shitty when it turned into a preachy thing near the end with the Aliens as God. I hate it when movies do that.
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its the new twilight
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What's it like going through life with no taste? Must be hell.
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You're not wrong. Great moment.
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better special effects too.
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Raimi movie.
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or is it the girl from the 1980's aerobics video?
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the evil dead trilogy is a douche
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Dude your not proving me wrong about being a troll. Makes me a sad panda..
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thats no joke.
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Oct 24, 2009 4:29:00 PM CDT
if im a troll than 90% of the talkbackers here are trolls
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
i was getting called a troll by a guy named turndontherun. what kind of topsy turvy world is this?
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This.....is.....SPARTA !!!!
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"I'll drown and you take me back," is a great sequence. Amazing suspense in that scene.
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Hmm...do you know what a mullet is? Apparently not. I'm sure your so hideous not even your mother could love you, which is the only reason to explain such envy and rage towards people. Not to mention, people with more talent in their pinky then surely you have or will ever have.
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It wasn't so much everyone in the audience cheered - you just saw a sea of heads jerk backwards!Imagine that punch in 3D...
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This was supposed to be a groundbreaking FX movie right? So why is that tired wormhole effect from Stargate and Contact in there? And with the exception of the blue guy, does anyone else think this looks like Halo the movie?
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Don't you have something more productive you could be doing? Or I suppose you enjoy obsessing over Cameron's movie under the guise that you hate them because you think it makes you unique.
Say what you want but at the end of the day your some retard on AICN, and he's James fucking Cameron, King of the World. I know your still a little butthurt over Titanic, but don't delude yourself into thinking Avatar will be anything other then a monster success. -
Cant find a single working link on you tube
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But looks like it's just been taken down.
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Oct 24, 2009 5:57:19 PM CDT
Does anyone really care about a movie's financial success?
by thejokesonus
All these people talking about how a movie will bomb or be the biggest blockbusting bonanza ever... who cares? I just want it to be good. "Transformers II: Bay Swallows" made a shit-ton of cash off of a bunch of mouth-breathing retards... I'll never see it. "The Fall" didn't cover the catering costs on that piece of garbage, but that didn't stop me from enjoying it. "Entertainment Weekly" has ruined a lot of thinking from moviegoers.
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AICN doesn't seem to care about it.
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Oct 24, 2009 6:10:48 PM CDT
Boxoffice.com predicts Avatar will make $195 M
by trannyformers_apologist
Avatar opening weekend $65M Avatar cumulative $195M http://tinyurl.com/yhpuzn6
"Unfortunately, Avatar carries a production price tag of as much as $250 million, and the buzz behind the film can best be described as mixed at this point. Reactions to the special 15-minute preview that was screened for free on IMAX screens across the country in August ranged from enthusiastic to highly skeptical. While audiences still have faith in Cameron, some moviegoers have unfavorably compared footage of the film to the videogame Halo. The 20th Century Fox release certainly has a big mountain to climb, and it needs to win over a lot of people in order to become a profitable venture."
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I thought he was heavily involved in the 3-D projection hardware and script polishing on Avatar.
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was somebodys knob
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"Say what you want but at the end of the day your some retard on AICN"
ditto buddy. i couldn't have said it better.
avatar: sucking furry blue-balls in 09. prepare for the suckage -
so you love that movie too right?
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michael bay made Avatar and bob orci wrote it. the studios wanted to see if geeks really hated michael bay or were just full of shit. so, they made up a lie about this being a james cameron movie to see how geeks would react. suckers.
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I was fully anticipating seeing Ed Harris' head crushed and implode. Instead, got some aquatic fairies bringing him to surface. It was bullshit.
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Oct 24, 2009 6:49:00 PM CDT
Abyss - hick truck drivers flying around in underwater cars
by lockesbrokenleg
They weren't even scientists. They were oil riggers! Can you imagine oil riggers having THAT technology? Jeezus!
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a bit like Miguel Ferrer in Deep Star Six.Not pretty. Much better rescued by fairies than that.
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Color me shocked - momentraily.
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JettL was doing some 'polishing' alright, but it wasn't on a script!
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if we don't change our polluting ways! oooohh!
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he just sort of... bursts. Lovely.
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for there to be a porn of Dr. Manhattan fucking a Navi?
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Did somebody implode in Leviathan as well?
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I couldn't tell if you had a mullet or not, because when a long-haired man starts to go bald and his hairline starts receding, he gets these little short wispy hairs in front like you have, similar to Steven Seagal in Above the Law, or any of your favortie glamour rock guitar pussies you listen to. As you continue to bald, I'm sure you won't cut your hair but will keep it long and the back and tie it in a ponytail hoping that the ponytail will hold some false image of youth or coolness for the girls you try to impress with your guitar playing.
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...Steven Seagal, once again.
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Goddamn caps lock. Now, I'm turning into TAINTLICK…
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...I'll bet you imploded in your pants!"
Leviathan FTW! -
Is that really how your brain works?
You see a fictional character with blue skin and immediately yell out, "SMURF! SMURF IN SPACE! BLUE SKIN EQUALS SMURF! LOL!"
I'm not criticizing you. I just need to know what level of retardation I'm dealing with here.
I've had faith in this movie from seeing the first teaser, but after seeing the full trailer (in the theater, by the way. This bootleg doesn't do it justice) I'm convinced this won't be just a pretty movie. The story, script and acting will be spot on.
Kind of silly that it took seeing the full trailer for me to realize that when Alien, Aliens, True Lies, The Abyss, Terminator's 1 and 2 and Titanic are sitting on my shelf at home.
Cameron is still a genius, people.
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its that they're blue AND cartoony. and they look like thundercats. and delgado. and furngully. All cartoons. hence, the smurf comparison. blue cartoons. I expect some degree of realism from Cameron characters, instead he gave me thundersmurfs.
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was going through all this same stuff? Remember how everyone and their mom said it was going to bomb? Remember when a little movie called Star Wars had previews that were being laughed off the screen? Or Lord of the Rings?
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People were gunning for "Titanic" from the beginning. Cameron is similar to Steve Jobs. You can criticize him, but I wouldn't bet against him…
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Oct 24, 2009 8:47:47 PM CDT
Yeah! And, and Remember how many geekgasms with Watchmen trailer
by dirk_the_amoeba
Ok, that one didn't work out so good And a leetle bit ironic that Titanic - which was a girl-powered movie is being held up! But still!
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I read the title of your response and got all excited, hoping you'd come back with some great insight that would make me rethink my statement.
But all I get is, "They're blue AND cartoony. LOL" (I added the "LOL" to punctuate your stupidity)
You say "cartoony" as if it's a universal term that requires no definition or explanation. They look like Thundercats, true. Two eyes, two arms, two legs... a mouth. Sharp teeth. Cat-like bone structure.
Ok, I get it. Both characters look like they evolved from cats. Why is this bad? Will the other elements of this movie (script, story, acting, cinematography, editing, music, sound design, etc.) only work if the aliens don't look like cats?
Before any trailers were released for this flick, did you think to yourself, "You know, I'm probably gonna love this move. UNLESS the aliens have cat-like features and blue skin. Because that's stupid."
I can understand coming on here and saying, "You know, I'm not too crazy about the alien design. But I hope the story makes up for it." But this is you: "LOL Thundersmurfs! Cameron has lost it! This movie is gonna suuuuuck!!! Blue smurf aliens FTL! How can a movie with blue, cat-like aliens POSSIBLY be any good?!" I just don't get how you came to that conclusion. I'm guessing it might have something to do with you being a total idiot.
And I'm sorry, but anyone who says that the effects in this movie look cartoony, or like a videogame cinematic are rendering their opinion of anything entertainment-related completely and utterly useless.
So just to recap: Cameron is a proven filmmaking genius. You are not. -
Oct 24, 2009 8:59:57 PM CDT
anyone that says a movie seen > an unseen movie = retard
by miyamoto_musashi
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But I bet Terminator is better than it is. I am soooo retarded!
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And they're supposed to be professionals... This thing will do significantly better than $195m. Here's why:
Repeat viewings are what drive box office. This film will (likely) be the equivalent a really great theme park ride (like the first Jurassic Park was). James Cameron knows how to make thrilling/crowd-pleasing/highly-detailed films. The 3-D version may actually qualify as a theme park ride.
Once you get off a great ride, you want to ride again - to see layers you missed the first time or just because it was so damn fun.
By early December the buzz/hype should have snowballed significantly. It has zero competition on the 18th. And the people that make huge hits out of games like Halo... this will have major appeal to them.
It won't be anything close to Titanic - we know the audience dynamics that created that monster hit. But it should do $250 domestic at the very least.
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I thought it looked like a confusing mess. Which was what the movie turned out as.
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to kick avatars ass. i don't know hitler, but i know he is bad. i havnt seen avatar and i know it is bad. so, lets review. avatar is like hitler.
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Are probably wrong. Even though it is a cartoon with live action in it.
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ppppplease stop the mecs from destroying my garden!
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Just leave the bunny out of this! I mean it!
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Carry on…
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Do.Not.Fuck.With.The.Bunny
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How could you tell?
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And I'm normal. That's why this will make plenty of money.
Still, though, it doesn't need to pay for itself in the same way other movies do. This movie was a deliberate loss leader to kickstart 3d cinema. The studio knows this. -
since I have an IQ of 130 and a 3d graphics degree. It's not even up for debate, it's personal taste, I think the thundermurfs look gay and cartoony and that's my opinion. I don't give a fuck what you think, that's why I didn't read your retarded post. LOL
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—think "Avatar" looks cartoony? What programmes were you using? Infini-D? Personal taste is all well and good and if you think the design isn't strong, then okay, I can see your point. But, I shudder to think someone with a 3D graphics degree can look at the work on "Avatar" and not be impressed. Hopefully you weren't in the class that produced "Colin's Bear."
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no one has seen Avatar(with the exception of JettL of course), plenty of people have seen TS and Wolverine
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obviously technically it's supurb, but even the skin shaders, with all the work and details that went into them, they still don't look super realistic. I have a problem with the color. Actually it's a personal thing. I fucking hate teal. it's probably my least favorite color. I feel that their skin tone looks unnatural. Yes, they're aliens, I'm fucking aware of that. I just think that they'd fit right in in Finding Nemo.
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—to sound so obnoxious. I'd say check out the film in 3D. It really does feel different from the 2D stuff I've seen.
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...He'd do a little post-production sound-editing and work the word "Smurf" into the plot as the marine's contemptuous epithet for the Na'vi, kinda like "gook" or "haji".
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desaturates everything. Hence the strong blue tones in 2d. It will probably look a lot better. So far I kinda have to side with Hitler on this one, though. And language is not my strong suit, lawl.
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But I just have to reply to one point concerning Aliens. Particularly in reply to a comment that Ripley's actions in the hive were smart or justified. As CharyouTree said, "what would you have done at that moment, you have few seconds to react, and your in that hive, I think ripleys acting on instinct which is how great warriors survive." That can be argued, but I simply disagree on that point. Because this "acting on instinct" in fact very nearly got Ripley and Newt KILLED, and resulted in the Queen chasing Ripley down all the way to the Sulaco. This was a BAD time to act on instinct, because it was TACTICALLY stupid. Acting on instinct is sometimes completely opposed to fighting. It's all context-specific. If someone throws a punch at you, instinct tells you to flinch. At which point you may dodge injury, or you may get your ass pummelled. Again, context-specific. I've fortunately never been unlucky enough to be in a situation in which I was rushing into certain death. So from this angle I'm speaking only from theory rather than experience. But in this example the INSTINCT would likely be for me to turn around and run away. While the DISCIPLINED and SMART action would be to stand my ground. Acting on instinct SOMETIMES allows warriors to survive. It also sometimes gets warriors KILLED, which almost happened with Ripley. But the way that Ripley massacred the Alien nest WAS tactically stupid. If only because at that point, she KNEW that she had the queen by the balls. She also knew that she had very limited ammunition and that there were still Aliens around. She also knew that she had even more limited time to get the hell out of there before the whole facility blew up. She saw with her own eyes that the Queen was sessile and stationary. She saw that while she was in the nest, only ONE egg opened up. If the Queen had the ability to make eggs open up and attack Ripley, that would have already happened. At this point, the ONLY real and immediate threat are any Alien Warriors which may be waiting to ambush her once she tries to leave. She does not know how many Alien Warriors are still left (though we can assume that her and the marines pretty much already killed nearly all 150 or so of them). Tactically, following the "instinct" to stand around and waste ammunition like that is the single worse thing that she could have done in that situation. Was it UNDERSTANDABLE, based on her prior experience with Aliens? Sure. Was it the "right" thing to do? Absolutely not. The queen, as an egg-laying factory, is concerned about the EGGS. Don't piss it off. Kill as few eggs as possible, walk the hell out of the nest, and save the ammunition. The instinct to Kill Everything is WRONG, since Everything s about to die in about four minutes anyway. Secondly, let us also realize that while Ripley is there to rescue Newt, resucing Newt is SECONDARY to killing all of the Aliens. Ripley WANTS to save Newt. But when it comes down to it, killing Aliens is the primary focus. And if it comes down to it, Newt is expendable. On the Sulaco, when Ripley opens up the airlock, Newt is very nearly sucked out into space along with the Alien. Such a result is not satisfactory. But given the circumstances, the Aliens must die. THAT is the primary objective. On the Sulaco, that is a good attitude. On LV-426, that was a BAD attitude to have. As Ripley shoots bullets and grenades into motionless eggs, we get a very clear shot of the GLEE that she is exhibiting on her face as she is Shooting The Hell Out Of Everything. She LIKES it. It's not self-preservation, it's a revenge killing. And the whole time, the clock is ticking and her ammo counter is dwindling. This is why when the Queen does show up, Ripley can do no more than turn to Newt and say "close your eyes, baby." All those rounds wasted on fucking EGGS. All that effort wasted on killing Aliens when the objective was SUPPOSED to be to rescue Newt since the Aliens were about to die anyway. Paint Ripley's actions as "understandable", and I'll agree. But given the circumstances, what she did was the WRONG thing to do and the STUPID thing to do. And Ripley's motivations were primarily bloodlust at the EXPENSE of Newt's safety. Again, it's about being context-specific. In the context of an Alien Queen being on the Sulaco, it makes sense to priotize killing the Aliens over saving Newt. In the context of being in the Alien hive with the Doomsday clock ticking and limited ammo, it makes far LESS sense to do what Ripley did.
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Nice to see some abyss love here.
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Do most people here prefer the theatrical cut, or the directors cut? Just curious. Because in my opinion, the director's cut sort of ruined it. Before, it was a nice albeit forgettable movie about love. But the director's cut just sort of took me out of the movie, what with the giant tsunamis and the aliens that use Nazi footage as an explanation for why they are about to kill everyone. It was just...weird. Like, in the theatrical version, the drama was happening all on a small scale. But then in the Director's cut, all of a sudden this global Worldwide Anihilation shit just sort of comes out of fucking nowhere. We go from Bud accepting his death and being saved, to Bud having to try to come up with a reason why humanity (as well as the vast majority of EVERY species that lives on land) shouldn't be wiped out. It's just...jarring. Makes me ask, "what the fuck?"
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that is all
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whats more
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avatar <<< phantom menace
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avatar <<< phantom menace
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but, the SF element in the movie is always a bit…forced. For me anyway. It's a bit distracting from the human drama, but I think that element isn't so jarring in the director's cut. In the theatrical version it seems like a lot of foreshadowing to a rushed conclusion. The director's cut remedies that, but some of the alternate shots inside the Deepcore seemed more effective in the theatrical version.Mind you I saw the director's cut in it's limited theatrical run and my memories of the original release in 1989 are a bit sketchy. Great performances by all, Ed Harris in particular…
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Considering you were talking about old effects, that's awfully recent, and those are the wrong examples. If you know anything about Cameron you'd know what the touchstone there is, and you need to go back a few decades more. The same place where the floating mountains came from. If you're gonna talk shit, KNOW your shit first dude!
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yea dude I don't disagree that she isn't enjoying what she was doing, the look she gives when the egg opens is like she was hoping it would happen, and yea that was really my point which you stated better that because it was instinct thats why she made the wrong choices, and again the main reason it happens I think is just because it's a great bit of action and suspense for climaxing a movie, yea not really the best thing she could have done but it fun for us watching.
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Oct 25, 2009 6:20:27 AM CDT
We can all agree that Stargate Universe is way better than this
by dioxholsterreturns
yeah i cant believe a $3 million dollar per episode show beats a $300 million movie. but its the truth.
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James Cameron, Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Willis and Mad Max. Happy days.
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What are you smoking?
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shoots the eggs although she could escape safely with newt from that nest.well when i was a kid,that scene truly bugged me,but after i rewatched the movie some time ago,i came to the conclusion,that Ripley was not going to escape the nest alive.
You see,you must follow the scene as it progresses: Ripley starts retreating backwards,in a defensive stance,but then an egg opens in front of her.Then Ripley looks at the queen,with an expression which is like thinkig : 'oh no u bitch,u r not going to cheat on me with your dirty trick.i am going to kick your ass now.' and then she starts shooting the eggs.
You see Ripley could not escape from there,if face-grabbers started jumping from the eggs and crawling all over the place.Ripley could not face them,especially not while holding Newt and the place was going to vanish in a few minutes.She was out of time and with no advantage,not when the eggs started opening.
So she did the most logical thing: she started shooting everything and after that she started running.Besides after finding and rescuing newt,her objective was only to get the fuck out of there as quickly and find Bishop with his ship.Even if the Queen could not capture them,they were finished if they didnt reach the rescue ship in time.
So Ripley reaction was logical and the most expected one. -
and Im not 100% sure but isn't there a low amount of actual aliens near the queen's hive, just a few workers or warriors and what they suspect is the queen? doesn't Bishop say something about that when he's dropping her off I`m sure I remember it or it may have been from a comic or game.
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thats what some other so called writers lack. I could pull a script like for transformers 2 out of my ass while Im having 10 bottles of whine and get fucked in the ass.
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but I saw something intereas sting. Harry liked a movie that he dint review here. his name and this site is on the trailer for a totally different film. avatar is a fox film so will harry sit on the fence. or will they bar him from the premiere. he and cameron are friends. will this get a great review. or abad one. considering how much harry loathes 20th century fox
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but I saw something intereas sting. Harry liked a movie that he dint review here. his name and this site is on the trailer for a totally different film. avatar is a fox film so will harry sit on the fence. or will they bar him from the premiere. he and cameron are friends. will this get a great review. or abad one. considering how much harry loathes 20th century fox
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opnening wekend. but it will depend on where you see it. it goes back to the point i made. yesterday. have all cinema been upgraded with the technology that is neede to see this film.
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I think in the New Yorker, it said three years ago there were 1500 screens and that by now, there would be 4500. So are there? I know that new theaters being built (however few there are), a lot of them are incorporating 3D on at least one screen. To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what that means anymore! Do the new systems require two projectors, one, a beam splitter... what's the deal? The town I used to live in, Hoboken, New Jersey, just opened a brand new theater and I was surprised to hear that they threw in for 3D in such a small venue (5 screens). I would think that if the number is 4,500 or 5,000, that's plenty to guarantee that those particular theaters are at full capacity throughout the entire opening weekend. Where it's going to be a problem is at a theater showing it on more than one screen and one theater is 3D and the other is not. This will be interesting just from that perspective...
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simply because of its amazing cgi and good story.and then they are will go and see it again in 3D,in order to experience the movie again and more completely.
so no the movie is not going to become a flop,it wont be a record breaker but it will definitely earn its money back.
and this movie is not only about to support the 3D cinemas growth,but also the new generation of 3D hdtvs,which means that it will eventually become a success in the homecinema market too. -
Oct 25, 2009 2:47:03 PM CDT
Here is where i think the studio have made a bit of a blunder
by emeraldboy
or not. in dunlaoghaire they had two seperate screenings of monsters v aliens and coraline. both in different formats. one in 2d and one in 3d. this new technology that cameron made the movie with merges the two. disney have thier own disney digital and sony have real 3d. imc have shown all thier 3d films in either disney digital and sony real 3d. so that leads to another question. will this be shown in select cinema and how will this film travel out side america.
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All they need to add is a 3-D digital projector and maybe a coating on the screen to be a 3-D capable theater. Most of my theaters in town (I'm in California) have 3-D on one screen at least. All have a 2-D digital projector to run ads during intermission or show pay per view special events. Bye Bye film prints in 3.... 2.... 1....
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I know there's been a few 3D films that have 3D releases on DVD and Blue Ray.
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www.worstpreviews.com/headline2.php?id=15530
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you could wait 4 more days and see the official trailer, but that would defy the 'I need it now' mentality.
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Interested,Interested, then suddenly lost interest.
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I also did a little research (was lazy before, lol), and found that the RealD tech costs $50k-$70k per screen PLUS an additional $20k over ten years for the license. But I guess it not only adds the digital projection, but the 3D, so it gets digital projection into a place that previously didn't see it as cost-effective because of the new upside with the 3D. But wasn't digital projection supposed to be about leveling the playing field for indies? I remember Lucas talking about small-time distributors then being able to get into the game because it would take the cost of a print from $20k+ down to a few bucks for an HD tape and a fedex account. Not that it matters anyway, most indie films nowadays are pretty terrible... the ones that get into festivals, anyway! Still, though, having so much digital projection means a small company like Corman used to run could put out some cheapie horror films or biker films or snowboarding films or whatever niche audience and nurture some new talent in exploitation type movies with a midnight audience. Then sell the DVD in the lobby and share the profits with exhibitors... hmmmmm......
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emeraldboy, i live in a developed country in south east asia. a country with the least appreciation for cinema (at least when compared to other asian countries). and even here, we already have lots of 3D screens going for a few years now. and the film communities here are just as hyped up for avatar.
sony and panasonic are also releasing their new 3D tv for global market, including asia. what film do you think people will pick to test their new tv with to perform to its fullest capacity? if avatar turns out to be a great film(i dont think cameron even knows how to make a bad film), we're talking about massive gross potential. -
but in Aliens, we can pretty much assume that nearly all of the Aliens are dead by the time Ripley finds the Queen. After all, every Alien needs a human host. And since there are 158 colonists, there can be no more than 158 Aliens. We know that the colonists killed a few Aliens. We also know that a few people died before the chestbursters could hatch. And we know that the Aliens don't use EVERY human as a host. some of them they flat-out slaughter. So total number of Aliens when the Marines arrive is actually probably just a little over 100 at most. Between the marines shooting them, and the remote gun sentries (ESPECIALLY the sentry robots, which were clearly DEVASTATING to the Aliens), I think we can safely say that there's no possible way that there were more than a handful of Alien Warriors left at the end of the movie.
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During a 12 page interview with James Cameron about AVATAR the NYT writer quotes some AICN talkbakers making fun of the 1st AVATAR trailer http://tinyurl.com/avatarnyt
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That's the NEW YORKER, not the NEW YORK TIMES. Two completely separate journals.
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...I think you may have just wrecked the movie for me. :-D
Seriously, though, given all the hype about Cameron's respect for women, Ripley sure is acting like a silly, emotional little lady at the end.
As one of the last survivors, her only rational mission is to get off the planet, take care of her brother-in-arms Hicks and assist Bishop in nuking what's left of the colony from space, as well as the original derelict. Much as I like the movie, the ending hinges on one of the most wearisome plot manipulations known to man...the Child In Danger.
But then again, she pretty much fucked over Lambert and Ash at the end of ALIEN for a fucking cat... -
And just think...in the extended footage, it's revealed that she's actually Lambert's girlfriend. Must've been some cat.
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Primary mission was to kill the Aliens. That was going to happen either way. Sure, saving Newt actually resulted in the goddamn Queen ending up on the Sulaco, but Ripley can't have been expected to anticipate that outcome. Hell, the AUDIENCE mostly didn't anticipate that outcome, which makes it that much cooler when the Queen rips Bishop in half. Second, Ripley doesn't care about Bishop. Not yet. She doesn't trust him, and she doesn't like androids. So he doesn't even really factor into any kind of mission priorities. To Ripley, only three people actually matter. Herself, Newt, and Hicks. And Newt simply matters more. So...the decision to "save the kid" doesn't really bother me at all. I just think that the nest massacre is sort of weird in tone, since it's almost as if Ripley has completely forgotten that THE WHOLE DAMN POINT of going back in the first place was to rescue the kid. Who gives a shit about the eggs? The eggs aren't even an issue. The queen can't just make them open up at a command, and the longer Ripley hangs around shooting eggs, the more she's compromising the current mission of saving the kid. The hell with the eggs, just get the hell out of there.
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Ripley had no clue that Newt was still alive by that point. Ripley was pretty lucky that Newt had not been cocooned yet. The reason Ripley sticks around and turns the flames on the eggs was because she wanted to ensure that none of those face huggers, etc, followed her back to the elevator.
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The facehuggers are not important. Seriously. Because the Queen is pumping out eggs at an almost limitless rate, yet the primary concern is ALWAYS the Alien Warriors. In Aliens, we have a Queen with an established base. We SHOULD see babies (that is, facehuggers) all over the place. But we don't. Because they just aren't there. Just lots of eggs. And the eggs generally do not open unless there is someone nearby. This goes back to the first movie. They describe the "Space Jockey" as being "fossilized". It's been there for a long time.When Kane investigates, the ONLY egg that opens is the egg that he touched. Those eggs have been there for a LONG time, and they don't start suddenly opening. No dead facehuggers littering the floor, just an enless sea of eggs. Now, in Aliens, Cameron introduced the Queen. And we can imagine that the presence of a Queen might be able to induce eggs tom hatch. BUT THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN. We have eggs in front of Ripley, eggs on both sides of Ripley, and eggs BEHIND Ripley. If the Queen had any ability to make eggs hatch at will, THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. If there was ANY chance that eggs would just start opening as soon as Ripley walked out of the Hive, then eggs would have started opening as soon as Ripley walked INTO the Hive. The eggs are not a threat. And there is little threat of being attacked by facehuggers. Since there were NOT facehuggers running all around the place. Facehuggers are not likely to be around. And even when Ripley was trapped in an enclosed room with two facehuggers, they didn't exactly relentlessly pursue her. ALL indications are that facehuggers will NOT chase you down, and are not a threat unless you get VERY close to them. I still say that Ripley could have walked right out of the nest.
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those aliens killed all her friends, made her lose 57 years of her life(in space hibernation), gave her nightmares everynight, kidnapped a child she cares, etc etc... forgive her if she lose count of how many aliens were left or if the eggs ONLY open when human are around.
if you can excuse the alien queen for being 'just' an animal acting on instinct and a mother to her species, then you sure can excuse ripley for the same thing. if the queen can get mad and pursue ripley for destroying her eggs, then ripley sure as hell can get mad at the queen to want to kill all her eggs. humans, just like the aliens, are not robots. sometimes it's our rationality that drive us, and sometimes it's just pure adrenaline and pure emotions. besides, revenge tastes good. -
of her,while retreating. how exactly is this thing not a threat? leave it mate,the explanation i gave above is the most correct one.
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Yeah, fairly true...if Ripley had been rendered into Alien burgers in a vain attempt to find Newt, Bishop would have still performed his end of the mission.
Shooting up the egg chamber is a kind of plot hole, but just barely...Ripley's blunder was thinking that the Queen was fully immobilized, like her termite equivalent. Natural mistake.
Compared to what happened next in the Alien series, the movie's flawless. -
When Ed Harris comes face-to-face with the aliens, he says what was on my mind the past two hours:
"Well, maybe if you didn't go around sinking our fucking submarines without warning, we wouldn't have to come down here and get on your fucking nerves, now would we?
"Oh, and by the way...who the fuck died and put you in charge of our planet, anyway? You don't like us and the way we're running it, you know where the exit is, don't you?" -
Oct 26, 2009 4:27:34 AM CDT
cloudrider, ominus and BurnHollywood are right on the money
by blakindigo
and let me not forget lockesbrokenleg. Yeah, pure adrenaline and revenge are on her mind. Additionally, she's had a vicious history with these creatures. Not only did one of them destroy her crew from the first movie, but in "Aliens" they destroyed an entire colony AND orphaned her surrogate daughter. Ripley is beyond logic at that point and is driven by pure rage and fear. She wants vengeance for the destruction of the colony and some bit of closure/catharsis for her internal angst. Ripley is operating out of pure instinct—the reptilian brain has taken over and she is consumed with 'scorching the earth' and taking the entire hive into flaming destruction.The eggs are always a threat. These creatures bleed acid and who knows what toxic residue remains as they degrade. Facehuggers DO attack, as we've seen earlier in the film when Ripley and Newt are attacked; they are a constant threat along with the Alien worker 'bees'.Ripley attacked believing that the Queen was sedentary and couldn't escape the fertility sack that was depositing eggs in the scene. THE QUEEN WAS LAYING EGGS AS RIPLEY STOOD THERE HOLDING NEWT; OF COURSE THEY WERE A THREAT. The worker 'bees' were not going to let her leave and the face huggers were mobile, fast and adept at attacking moving targets. Don't forget how strong they were, in groups they could easily overpower a human, much less a smaller weaker target like Newt.
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that the 'aliens' were inhabitants of the planet,long before humans appeared.Τhey didnt just arrive in our planet one day and said,hey its nice and wet here,lets stay for our vacations.
But while they were living in the oceans all these years,the human race progressed technologically but remained hungry for war,which means they become a threat for the 'aliens' .And they decided to react first before they get destroyed by us.
I am not saying that they handled it well,but they werent the superior being who arrived on earth to pass judgment on us.no they instinctively did,what we would have done: to destroy our enemy in order to survive -
i believe sam's character will die,but Neuteri will carry his child,who will later become the leader of the Navi.
The Navi will ofc have won the final battle but not the war,mainly because Cameron will want to make a sequel if the movie goes well,so he will have an open ending for the movie with a cue for the next chapter. -
The link still took you to the right place so enjoy the interview. I just had times on the mind for some reason and didn't catch that typo.
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Well one of them got on the ship and caused Alien3 so they must be quite significant! But yea they fact is your all right, and I don't think I would have wanted her to do it any other way. It's what the audince wanted and Cameron gave us it, it was mainly all to motivate the queen onto the ship. Remember she was there to wipe out that species, it wasn't just herself she was thinking about whilst backing off, it was for every colonist and space explorer to come, she wanted to wipe these out and make sure they wouldn't be a problem for anyone else to come. And don't forget in the directors cut we find out Ripley had a child who grew old and died whilst she was floating in space. So she lost a child already. But I still think there was a very slim chance she was getting out of there alive. And ominus your close about that ending for Avatar but slightly off, (according to the scriptment which could of course changed by now though.)
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this year is the 30th anniversary of alien. fox dont seem to be in a rush to put that film into cinemas. again. maybe it has something to do with that cock up a couple of years ago. speaking of ridley scott any news of robin hood film.
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I thought ellen ripley was a human being
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was I saw a report before the first trailer came out. The way these glasses are designed is that they act as the cinema screen. these glasses are what make avatar revolutionary. the take you into the movie the movie the way the old 3d couldnt.
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"The reptilian brain contains the cerebellum and brain stem. It is present in reptiles and therefore called the reptilian brain. It is the oldest part of the brain and regulates vital functions like breathing, heart rate and flight or fight response."
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when they were trapped in a tiny room with them. Again, no precedent for a facehugger ever chasing someone down. They wait until you get close, then they pounce. This is why the Alien warriors drag people back to the nest, instead of just sending out facehuggers to wander the facility. The Queen is pumping out THOUSANDS of eggs, and yet we don't see one single facehugger wandering around looking for a host. They simply don't do that, period. And the smart thing to do in that situation would be to save the ammo for any remaining Alien Warriors.
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as we saw them chase Ripley and Newt in the movie.
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As we saw in the movie, the only reason that those two facehuggers posed a threat to Ripley and Newt is because they were trapped in the room with no weapons. They attack by AMBUSHING their prey. In this manner, they are like a snake. A snake will SLOWLY follow a scent trail, and a snake may "chase" after a mouse if you put them both in a box. But the "chase" only occurs if the prey is nearly within striking disatance. Otherwise, ALL you will see is the snake following a scent trail in order to better position itself for an ambush. Exact same thing with facehuggers. They cannot "run" very quickly. And they cannot stand much hope of "chasing down" any type of prey. What you saw when Ripley and Newt got attacked was akin to throwing a mouse into a box with a rattlesnake. It is NOT a typical scenario by any means. And even in that scene, we see that the facehuggers actually do very little "chasing." Even when they are confined in a tiny space with Newt and Ripley, we still see the facehuggers doing prety much two things: SLOWLY getting into position to strike, and waiting for Newt or Ripley to come within striking range. And even that first time when a facehugger lunges at Ripley, and she turns over the bed, notice what the facehugger does. It runs away and hides. In the context of Ripley being armed to the teeth and able to actually run away, I have to disagree with you. The facehuggers are a non-issue. They won't chase her down the corrider, the only threat comes from getting jumped by a facehugger that she doesn't see. The only threat comes from being ambushed. But look at the scene again. When Ripley walks into the nest, she is SURROUNDED by eggs. She is actually there for a WHILE, and it's a few minutes before a single egg opens. If there was a significant risk of other eggs starting to open behind her, then we have to ask why that didn't happen the entire time she was surrounded by eggs. I've read implications that the Queen was controlling the eggs, and that the Queen made that one egg open as a way of attacking Ripley after she let her guard down. Again, I don't think this is very plausible. If the Queen had the ability to make eggs open like that, then she would have made multiple eggs open as soon as Ripley walked into the room. I actually just watched it again keeping in mind the comments of some of the people here. And I still can't see any way that the smart thing to do was to waster her ammo like that on the eggs, when she did in fact KNOW that there were still Alien Warriors hanging around. The argument that "she wasn't making it out of there alive" rests entirely on the eggs and the facehuggers. That argument rests entirely on the notion that multiple eggs would have immediately started opening, and that facehuggers would have chased Ripley down the corridor until they caught up with her. And sorry, but I simply don't see that kind of behavior ever being shown with either the facehuggers or the eggs. And I don't see any kind of precedent indicating that that ever could have happened. Agree or disagree, since what we're doing now is analyzing the behavior of imaginary animals. So there's really no "right" or "wrong" answer to this. But viewed from the perspective of these being "animals", I merely think that facehugger behavior has been shown as being pretty consistent and predictable within the first two movies. And that behavior actually makes sense with respect to the animal's apparent physical attributes. Now if we were to talk about the "warriors"/"drones", then their behavior varies a lot more even within the first two movies, and they are a more unpredictable element. But the facehuggers? They are much more of a constant.
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To make sure no-one would ever come across them again, to exploit the alien or be killed by them. Did she go about it the most rational way? No. But she did it in a cinematic way. Your right the facehuggers wouldn't chase you down but I think they would chase/jump a bit more straight out the egg. And she still managed to kill them couple of warrior aliens that came running in. I do think she was willing to sacrifice herself and Newt to make sure the Alien would be extinct. She even puts Newt down to kill them all, in them few moments you can see the glee in her eyes, Ripley is killing her babies because she missed her own childs life due to the first Alien, and getting stranded in space. But still I think there is no story or motivation in that scene other than Cameron thinking "how do we get the queen onto the spaceship."
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I've just gotta shake my head a bit at all the literal-mindedness, anally dissecting minutiae that was a result of creative, storytelling and cinematic requirements. I know that sounds snobby, but I'm just saying it makes me a bit crazy. I'm not dismissing literal logic at all (things should hold up), just saying that in film especially internal and emotional logic trumps it. Metaphor and analogy are every bit as important as garden-variety logic, especially in genre which has those things and themes like existentialism and thematic or visual symbolism at it's very core.
Obsessing like that is fun (until you get into the ludicrous situation of arguing about it), but often misses the forest for the trees, misunderstands drama and is the reason fanboys are sitting here getting annoyed and going over the wrong things with a fine-tooth comb rather than writing the screenplays and making the movies themselves. Not talking about everyone here obviously. When these filmmakers make these things, it's the metaphor and analogy that's supposed to stay with you, not the proximity ratio of facehugger to human busybody.
If you're gonna be literal, be consistent and call the Walker sequence in Empire one of the stupidest ever, even in terms of the series' own internal logic. And the one time the Enterprise went to warp 1 million but never again has nothing to do with the science of warp factor drives and everything to do with the three-act structure and resolution of conflict/drama (I chose a Trek example for a reason).
VB finally made the point you're talking about imaginary animals. Facehuggers have more to do with poking your face where it's not wanted, fear of spiders, snakes, strangulation and asphyxiation, being poisoned, violated, helpless, being trapped, ramping up the fear in stages and physical size, viscera, the new and strange, the coldness of biomechanics, the uncomfortable crossing over of sex and violence (especially in relation to males with all the phallic imagery), and on and on... and I haven't even mentioned fear of (our own) bodies/mortality, motherhood and alienation/difference, which are at the very core of Ripley's/the Alien stories. Which is why 4 fucked up so royally with such great material with the extended motherhood metaphor that is at the heart of Ripley and the whole series. That lab should have been the crux of everything for Ripley both in respect to the clones and the whole alien thing. But nope, 5 minutes later we ostensibly just continue on... as for the first one, it's just Agatha Christie's Ten Little Indians/Niggers /your basic Gothic mansion/horror story all over again. What makes it a complete classic are all those other things I mentioned.
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I also thought it was funny that not one person on the TBs (as far as I saw/know) commented in all this time about how (if we're being literal) stupid it was that the guy's in a fucking wheelchair when it's the future and they can give you a whole new body, link or transfer your consciousness, etc. Then of course the new trailer came out and what do you know? It's not as much about literal logic as much as the symbolism, hero's journey, plot mechanics and the evil company/miltary/whoever the bad guy is. What a surprise!
Just trying to get us back on topic there! -
Obviously I meant to put in "in respect to Avatar". How do you make a rolleyes in here?!
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Your right dude, I put it's Cameron just wanting to get the Queen on the ship to fight the walker, and I think that's the main logic in that scene, and your right it is fun discussing these movies, but yea we may be getting a bit obssesive and anal, but that's what makes film like this classics I suppose. And yea I mentioned the wheelchair earlier in the TB and got no answer seemed people just plum forgot about all the bitchin. Even in earlier TB's I mentioned it's a plot device in the scriptment but people still loved to bitch regardless.
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—in the trailer the military officer says something like "…and we'll give you your legs back…your real legs…" so it seems that we'll have to see the actual film for the explanation.I absolutely agree that the metaphor of being smothered and the more disturbing allegory of diseased sexuality are major aspects of the "Alien" franchise. The symbol of the face hugger is almost like a vaginal orifice with a long, throbbing phallus-like tube protruding from the centre,forcibly thrust into the mouth to impregnate the host. A brilliant sexual/birth symbol that plays on fears of the mysterious 'womb' and a metaphor of sexuality/birth as a precursor of death.But, those sons-of-bitches will still chase you if you're close enough.
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Yeah, that Hans Rudi Giger is a fucked-up dude! It's pretty funny that the big Alien is literally a dick-head though...
Tree, I'm a read-the-whole-thread to-not-make-a-fool-of-yourself kinda guy, but sorry, I missed your wheelchair bits. I admit that I do skip bits that discuss even scriptment spoilers as I don't wanna know the whole thing before this flick opens. -
After hearing Cameron saying how this is a new step in 3d, I was expecting it to be just that.
But it's not.
There's nothing new here, it's the same as every other 3d film, 2d cut outs stacked up. It doesn't capture depth in the characters, which makes it an odd viewing experience. Not very real & rather distracting.
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