… one of the most emotionally compelling hours the show has ever done. … an hour that plunges headfirst into the moral quandaries and compromises that reside at the heart of the Dollhouse. It doesn't shy away from the queasier questions about what the dolls are doing during their working hours. It asks pointed questions about who has power, how that power is used and the consequences of using power. But at its heart, "Belonging" is an episode that serves as an "origin story" for Sierra, and as such, it's very affecting. …9 p.m. Friday. Fox.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:39 a.m. CST
back when the show started - when it would have made a difference.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:56 a.m. CST
Especially the one about the singer...man, that sucked. But it has improved and I have been enjoying the different 'dolls' (hated that name)and their stories...the acting has been quite good as well and Amy Acker knocks it out of the park everytime - she is great. Whilst I won't miss the show when it finishes, I do think it's beginning to really find itself and if left to run, could have actually ended up being a rather brilliant show.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:56 a.m. CST
what a glowing review!
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:03 a.m. CST
they focus on the "star" of the show. Dushku, no matter how attractive she is, is the worst thing in this show.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:18 a.m. CST
After the last minute reprieve Joss got from Season 1's cancellation, he should have come out of the gate in 2x01 at maximum fucking speed, and not let up until 2x13. <p> Instead we limped out of the gate, and wandered around for a bit, before slowly gathering up a head of steam. Well, it's too fucking late now.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:25 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
I'm bored with lesbians now--even lipsticks lesbians, as it all seems to be one big passe gimmick.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:45 a.m. CST
by Mr Gorilla
This show really is getting more and more special. Amazing to have built it around a concept that is so horribly queasy. Well done all, and well done AICN for supporting. I'd rather you support shows you believe in, than give something like Transformers 2 endless publicity before you actually see the film and realise it stinks. By the way, haters must be welcome too. There's no law that says everyone has to love the work of Joss Whedon. I just happen to adore it.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:46 a.m. CST
the first 6 episodes of season 1 will haunt Joss Whedon forever. <p><p> When the cancel it, he should take it online. I'd happily give him a bit of cash every week to see how this story unfolds.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:54 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Yes, that young lady, the girl who appeared in a brief story arc on Terminator: SCC, is somebody to watch--and could, and should be, a real break-out star. She is now on the new Melrose Place playing a high class prostitute. Well, she deserves much better. I don't know her name, but man...would she have been great on Dollhouse--well, in a more linear version where the Dolls could emote...such as the storyline I was suggesting. Anyway, let's not get into that. Back to the matter at hand--this actress...is a real find.<BR><BR> Kudos to the folks who produced TV's Terminator for discovering, and casting her! Now someone in Hollywood (Joss Whedon!!!)...get behind her career...and make it happen!!!
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:57 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
I too love the pro and con of things, just as long as it is fueled by smart debate, instead of the name calling that goes on so much here!
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:31 a.m. CST
I really hop he continues the story in comics. This show should have been an HBO show.
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:58 a.m. CST
He's one of those always working character actors that when you see them you go, "Oh, hey! It's that guy!"
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:15 a.m. CST
Sorry Joss but it's true.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:16 a.m. CST
Aussie girl, her name is Stephanie Jacobsen, and she was in BSG before Terminator and Farscape before that. The terminator people "discovered" her about as much as the Dollhouse people discovered Olivia Williams. <p><p>Swing and a miss. Again. <p><p>I just watched Vows again, you've got to hand it to Joss, to cram in existentialism, a car chase, Eliza in her underwear, an explosion, discussions of identity and set in motion a couple of subplots, all in the space of 40 mins is quite the acheivement. Especially on FOX. I don't care what people say, I like the show. Which makes hearing the next few episodes are really good even more depressing considering its cancellation is now a forgone conclusion.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:40 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
All I know, is that she has great charisma, and if Joss was going to cast anyone from Galactica on Dollhouse, or anywhere else for that matter, it should have been her, not the milk toast guys he has been casting? He picked some of the most bland and boring people from that show, Galactica, and put them on Dollhouse? That's a real swing and a miss!!! I don't get it???
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:43 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
She's a real scene stealer!!! Thanks for the information Goldberg.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:57 a.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:04 a.m. CST
But that might have had more to do with the characters she was playing. I never saw Farscape, so don't know what she was like in that. <p> At least in T:SCCC she wasn't as bad as the blonde actress she shared the bulk of her scenes with. God damn that was some painfully bad acting. We're talking TNG-Wil-Wheaton bad.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:24 a.m. CST
not too convinced by her in Razor either. Then again, that may be more to do with the writing and the fact they 'inserted' her into BSG mythos than the actress herself. Very much typical 'tough female' character, of which there were already many on BSG already. She does have a certain screen presence though, and that kinda 'unusual hot' thing that Michelle Rodriguez has going on.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:29 a.m. CST
It's not even the best sci-fi on Fox. Anyway, thanks for that, I needed a laugh.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:37 a.m. CST
Is this FRINGE? FLASHFORWARD? Jesus, that cliche needs to stop.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:44 a.m. CST
But I think they did it first. And I agree, it needs to stop.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:46 a.m. CST
Its in my pants when I look at the photo for this article and assume that they are just about to make out.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:47 a.m. CST
they havent gotten rid of the worst actor on TV, the guy playing the FBI guy? No? Then it isnt about to get really good.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:47 a.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:54 a.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:03 a.m. CST
But it didn't and still hasn't to this point. The only thing this show is apparently good for is giving work to former BATTLESTAR GALACTICA actors.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:28 a.m. CST
Does he need to be sold on the show? I want that thing. <P> Also if Whedon and Doogie are so in love with each other then why doesn't he get him a part on this show?
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:31 a.m. CST
Hahahahahaha. Who has Tivo? My brother did like 4 years ago? Now everyone has DVR through their providers. I don't even think you can get Tivo unless you live on the coast.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:35 a.m. CST
by DC Films
Firefly gets cancelled and this dUllhouse gets another series.<p>What's wrong with the picture here.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:42 a.m. CST
And most people will tell you that the DVD-only episode was just fantastic. <p> So far, it is the only episode out of the 20 or so filmed, which has lived up to the promise of the shows core ideas.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:46 a.m. CST
...as in the original movie, that first used a variation of the storm line with the "He said there's a storm coming in"/"I know..." exchange? Can anyone think of any earlier examples of the now very cliched 'storm coming' warning as far as modern sci-fi or genre film and tv goes?
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:52 a.m. CST
by Red Ned Lynch
...coming is the in the end scene of Terminator. Linda Hamilton drives up to the little Mexican store, there's some wind and chickens, a little kid says something in Spanish. Hamilton asks an old man what the child said and he tells her there's a storm coming. I remember this, because I ruined the ending for a theater full of people during Terminator's initial run. After Linda Hamilton asks what the kid said I shouted out "The chickens, they torment me." There was enough laughter to subsequently drown out the old man's answer. I was young and used to being in a very urban movie viewing environment. I would never do such a thing now. On the other hand, whenever I hear a character say there is a storm coming I always think "The chickens, they torment me."
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:34 a.m. CST
...and wonder why they don't buy umbrellas. It's one cliche I would like to see on every show. Most apt on Harper's Island: great cliched and silly but fun show!
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:38 a.m. CST
Sherlock Holmes: There's an east wind coming, Watson.<br> Dr. Watson: I think not, Holmes. It is very warm.<br> Sherlock Holmes: Good old Watson! You are the one fixed point in a changing age. There's an east wind coming all the same, such a wind as never blew on England yet. It will be cold and bitter, Watson, and a good many of us may wither before its blast. But it's God's own wind none the less, and a cleaner, better, stronger land will lie in the sunshine when the storm has cleared.<br> — His Last Bow (set in August 1914, published 1917) <p> More storm references than you'd know what to do with, can be found here : http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AStormIsComing <p> (You know the drill.. remove the spaces which are inserted by AICN's crappy comment code.)
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:58 a.m. CST
Shut the fucking haters up.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:08 a.m. CST
You watched 4 episodes of Season 1. Is there any way your opinion is at all relevant? STFU.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:20 a.m. CST
by Blondie Bear
I am looking forward to the coming episodes as it appears there finally taking the kid gloves off. but i am also apprehensive as i think sierra is gonna bare the brunt and shes my favorite active, they can do as they please to echo she comes off as a natural call girl anyway.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST
One of the most irritatingly cliche things to say when something bad is going to happen. Too many a show(and good ones) have said this overdone and increasingly overused line of dialogue. I think it was cool when I was like....13....but now all I can do is roll my eyes and groan.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:27 a.m. CST
will I enjoy the goodness this episode claims to provide? All I know is Dushku is Echo and she's a doll.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST
For my money eps 1-5 are okay at best. Ep 4 is pretty decent, 3 is awful and the others simply 'meh'. Episode 6 is very good, 7 not so much, same with 8, ep 9 "Spy in the House of Love" is brilliant, 10 is an alright standalone which gets better once you've seen Epitaph One because of the idea it introduces and the 2 parter that ended the televised season was very good indeed. <p><p>This season, the premiere was very good in places, ep 2 was forgettable and last time out was overall pretty good. So out of 16 I've seen, 4 or 5 average ones and 1 outright stinker. Thats not a bad ratio, expecially compared with something like Angel, which had 22 episodes in its first season, most of which were terrible and a few that were Very Bad Indeed. Even the bad ones have good parts, I really don't see how this programme gets so much hate.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST
by spike fan
Whedon would Herc have given this show so many talkbacks?? Hell how many people here really like the show for the shows sake rather than its written by Joss Whedon ???? Just curious is all. Oh an whats with is crap about the above picture. Just a shot of two fully clothed women and thats what does your fantasy!!! your on the Internet people if you want Lesbians or Porn it should be easy enough to find
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST
They should have cast Jessica Alba ;).
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:35 a.m. CST
line as well in its 3rd season finale. Cringe worthy.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:47 a.m. CST
Yet another Dollhouse TB
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:52 a.m. CST
Everything Joss Whedon writes (latest offender: the swag note) makes me think that he's twice the twat he was before.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST
by DC Films
but if it can't do the business in the first 4, why should anyone risk more hours on the show when there's so much other great tv to watch, like Dexter, Supernatural, Lost, BSG (RIP) etc. I take your point that it may get better and don't doubt you, but that's it on Dullhouse for me i'm afraid.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:57 a.m. CST
But I think its Dushku's acting that brings this down. Because the episodes that suck are the ones that are just her on a mission. The good ones are the group essemble trying to hide the dollhouse or stop something crazy from happening. Which is odd because shows like these usually thrive in the one off episodes and stall on the OVERALL theme episodes. Like X-files.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:02 a.m. CST
by DC Films
You know, it's always the ugly, weaselly little half lives that are scared to say boo to a goose that use the abbreviation STFU.<p>You know the kind that like to 'act-out' on people not in their immediate location - the type that probably hit their girlfriends.<p>I'm sure that with such a well thought-out, meaningful name as HoboCode' you just typed that pathetic abbreviation by mistake and, having a backbone, would only curse a person to their face.<p>Thank god there's none of those twats around here, hey?
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:08 a.m. CST
I meant to say "Shut the fuck up." But because I kind of like you, and I'm a little lazy, I decided an abbreviation sufficed. I'll try to do better next time.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:13 a.m. CST
by DC Films
YPSFLC.<p>We'll have no half-arsed put downs around here, thanks.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:24 a.m. CST
Well...that's a relief. It only premiered over a year ago. I start to worry when shows don't "start getting good" before their third season. (sarcasm) Anyway, Dushku is the worst actress on the planet (No sarcasm)
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:25 a.m. CST
Is super super hot. And a talented actress. Shame she's not the lead. Love the show, but the rule is: less Dushku=better show
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:49 a.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:52 a.m. CST
boys and girls its time for you to go into your moms pocketbook and get out her wallet. take out a dollar and send it to your pal soupy up in heaven.
Oct. 23, 2009, noon CST
Like the first poster said. Make it good to begin with and people will watch it. Good to see you are unswayed in your opinions by free swag Herc. I'm sure that didn't have any bearing on your review of the show. Lol fanboys. /rollseyes
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST
that is all.
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST
Again? Didn't we just have a conversation about this cliche line on a different show's thread?
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:50 p.m. CST
...that was a "war" that was coming.
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:50 p.m. CST
How many times have we heard that?
Oct. 23, 2009, 12:56 p.m. CST
by tiny wooden doll? I don't really think so but funny if true. "I didn't really like that show." Here, have a pack of gum. "That's a really good show!! I love gum!!"
Oct. 23, 2009, 1:06 p.m. CST
Jonathan Frakes is a no talent director. A hack who only gets hired because of the connections he made from Star Trek. His best "work" is narrating embarrassing "documenteries" about alien invasions. THIS is the "jump the shark" moment for Dollhouse.
Oct. 23, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST
Two great shows that ended too soon. I'm a sucker for sci-fi but Dollhouse just sux ass.
Oct. 23, 2009, 1:14 p.m. CST
Huge Whedon fan (except for the missives he sends to Herc / industry types / Whedonesque - I mean grow up, man, stop writing like a try-hard teenager!)... but Dollhouse threatened to become great during the back end of the first season, and with Epitaph One... and then just jumped two steps back in season two. Getting through the Married Echo / Apollo From Galactica episode was just a chore. The show just isn't in the same league as Buffy, Angel, or especially the dear, departed, late, lamented Firefly. <p> <p> Jesus, if Joss wanted to throw Dushku a bone and it involved going back to Fox (the fool), he should've just re-launched Firefly and crowbarred her in their as some Faith-a-like character. Some sassy, sarky, "bad" boat captain they run up against. I could've forgiven that, just for more tales from the 'Verse. <p> <p> But Dollhouse? Into it's second season and yet to hit any kind of stride. Shame.
Oct. 23, 2009, 1:57 p.m. CST
Please. Oh shit. Clone Wars is a rerun. Frakes sucks as a director BTW.
Oct. 23, 2009, 2:46 p.m. CST
by Buck Swoop
Holy Shit his scenes two eps ago were painful. If you're gonna hire your friends Whedon - write them good parts. Meanwhile Smallville is on a roll this season - almost as good as Season 2.
Oct. 23, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST
I would think that directing the second best STAR TREK movie of all time earns you a little bit a fanboy slack.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:22 p.m. CST
Now how about a TB cause Dollhouse is lame.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:23 p.m. CST
I gave up on the show. But my wife sort of still likes it, but she's close to dropping it too.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST
also directe the less than stellar remake of The Thunderbirds. And by less than stellar I mean horrendous.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:27 p.m. CST
The second unit director on FC helped out with Frakes on that one.
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
He really damaged his credibility, and his career, with that movie!!!
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
In fact, she isn't even trying to act. "Why really invest the time in sharpening your craft in acting, if horny studio heads are going to hire you based upon your looks/"; I think is her view, and that of Eliza D?
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST
Better Link: http://www.guidetobeautyschools.com/hottest-twilight-vampires
Oct. 23, 2009, 3:59 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
As should we all. Stephanie Jacobsen, she is a person that the studios should invest in developing, as she really puts in the emotional effort in her work. She emotes, but so many so-called actors and actresses just walk through scenes because they can--they aren't hungry anymore for stardom because they have handsome contracts, and as a result, we largely get script line readings presented as acting, and no real effort given. Look at the girl who played Bower's love interest, the girl who turned-out to be a doll? There is a fine and very intersting actor in her--she gives it her all--the same is true of Stephanie Jacobsen...and her work on T:SCC...but Eliza D, although great as Faith, has not shown-up consistently on Dollhouse with strong acting performances, to play Echo, Caroline, or any of the many other personalities she has been asked to play for the show? She is just collecting a paycheck...and phoning, and texting, it in?
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:28 p.m. CST
It's giving me some ideas.
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:55 p.m. CST
A posting storm once the episode starts. I'm gonna tear this bitch talkback a new posthole. Beer?
Oct. 23, 2009, 4:58 p.m. CST
Are you this woman's agent or something?!
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST
... is THAT why Herc is so leniant on this terrible show?
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:12 p.m. CST
That's right...then he's headed to your hose with some Twinkies!
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:34 p.m. CST
...everyone I've ever met who likes his shows always says "Don't start at the beginning; "Buffy"/"Angel" didn't get good till Episode 6/14/etc. or Season 2/3/etc. I can understand rallying around a creator or a series, but if a show isn't good from the first handful of episodes, then why did anyone bother watching it in the first place?
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:39 p.m. CST
Spike Fan posed the question if some people are watching Dollhouse for the sake of Whedon and not for the show itself. I have to say, "Yes, at first." Yes because I do that to any TV or movie if I like the writer or director. I do it for Minear and Fuller. I do it for directors like Spielberg, Scorsese, The Cohen Bros, Apatow and the a lot of others. I don't watch things because of actors or actresses and I don't think it's that farfetched to think that others don't do the same. Is everything they put out as good as the singular hit that made them breakout? No, but I usually enjoy them enough as auteur pieces to keep on watching the things they do with their careers. <p> Dollhouse isn't the best of Whedon's career. There is a little too much backsliding progression wise because I think they are trying to drive home the complexity of what it means to be defined by those around you and that means a lot of hand-holding, going over ground that was covered by maybe just a sentence of dialouge beforehand - trying to make the subtext (which I love), actual text (which I don't). I'm hoping for these last few episodes in Dec & Jan, they just go bug-fuck insane; the more chaos, the better.
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:48 p.m. CST
That's just how he works. I think he tries to set things up slowly so you as a viewer will feel like shit when he rips it away from you. That's why I like the sadistic prick. (And I think I responded to the last part of your query while I was writing the last post. Weird.)
Oct. 23, 2009, 5:50 p.m. CST
It's not even real swag; it's like vague swag. Jesus.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:04 p.m. CST
Hell yes thats why I watched. A new Whedon show is like a new Sorkin production, or a David Simon production or the new Spike Lee joint. The name will get me interested. Dollhouse started life as an intreresting concept, but it was clear the network wanted a procedural. The first 5 episodes tried that formula and it didn't work, from ep 6 onward it was something closer to the original vision (and the original pilot I gather, although I haven't seen it). A Whedon procedural is still something I'd watch, there's the dialogue, the character interaction (which he does very well) and that nihilistic streak he brings to his work where he kills off characters, or puts them through the wringer. The 'twister' episodes I'd call them. Examples would be Buffy's The Body, Angel's A Whole in the World or War Stories from Firefly. The thing I love about Whedon is he does this curious tone of somewhere between cheesy, profound and oddly uplifting. The final scene of Epitaph One encapsulates this perfectly "Kids playing with matches, and they burned the house down". Is that a cheesy line, or is it brilliant? I think its both and thats why I'll continue to watch anything he does. <p><p>If that makes me a Whedon fanboy, then so be it. I'm a whedon fanboy. It does'nt mean I won't be critical of his stuff, but yes, his name will always keep me interested.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST
linked to this column. Maybe I won't be a lonely boat in the turbulent Detractor Sea...
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:09 p.m. CST
Plenty of shows build slow in order to make its key plot twists turn the screw into the viewer even deeper. "Lost" does this. "Twin Peaks" did this. However, both of those shows were also very good from the get go-- Whedon's programs tend to be comatose on arrival, and then pick up signs up life somewhere in the middle of the first or second season. I can't get behind his shows because, for the most part, they're fucking boring and pointless until that mid-to-second season point. And that's a piss-poor way to handle a television show.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:29 p.m. CST
at Episode 6, all of these comments about "If you can get through the first 4 or 5 episodes....". I thought that same thing, only to find a marginally less boring show on the other side of that obstacle. Become Firefly, it did not.....oh, and Firefly was fucking awesome from minute 1.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:30 p.m. CST
that Lost & Twin Peaks started being brillant right out of the gate. I just don't think that's how Whedon's process works for him; it different from an Abrams or a Lynch. If his process doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. The building, then taking it away thing works for me. <p> Whedon reminds a bit of Stephen King, in a way (who I am a HUGE fan of). I'm not comparing their influence or popularity to each other but the almost plodding bits that get turned into BLAMMO in a blink of a page. And while reading a novel is a very singular experience, Stephen King has a "voice" for me. I hear it in every bit of his work, like I'm sitting on a porch with him drinking a beer, listening to him tell me a story. Whedon's "voice" sometimes gets muddled in a TV show that has so many other people collaborating on it but I still hear it. Except it's not drinking beer on a porch; it's more like dinner party in a crowded restaurant.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:37 p.m. CST
before tonight's start. If this ep is like a Topher/Sierra flashback, I want to see how it relates to Topher downloading a friend into Sierra. Also, both written by Mo & Jed Whedon.
Oct. 23, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST
Your thoughts on Jonathan Frakes directing?
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST
Come and get a fresh hot serving of the crazy. Make it last, there will be no more until the FINAL episodes in Decembar.
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:28 p.m. CST
We only have one oar between us and we're circling but we know which way is north. (All that to say I liked your fanboy post :P)
Oct. 23, 2009, 7:58 p.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/yf9tuw4 <p> Tonight's episode of Dollhouse, "Belonging," absolutely blew me away. I've been a deeply ambivalent quasi-fan of the series all along, but this single episode affected me more, and upset me more, than anything that came before — which is the built-in contradiction of Dollhouse, that the better it is, the sicker it is. Without getting into serious spoilers, tonight's show concerns Sierra's backstory, and it's the most straightforward representation yet of the show's obsessive concern: rape fantasies. I mean this in a good way. <p> As briefly touched on during last year's episode "Needs," Sierra (played by the fantastic Lichen Dachman) was a hippie Australian artist on Venice Beach, the obsession of a rich man. She turned down his come-ons and he schemed to turn her into a doll, a repeat rental for a million creepy fantasies. The technological-roofie concept is of course at the core of Dollhouse, but it's also a recurring trope in the rest of Whedon's shows: on Buffy alone, Warren mind-controlled his ex-girlfriend, Spike created a Buffybot to fulfill his needs, and Willow cast an amnesiac spell on her long-term lover. If you're a resentful Whedon nerd, you've got mind-control issues, a sexually charged situation his series tend to at once oppose in theory and play out in a cathartic way in practice. (As Dollhouse in particular demonstrates, it's awfully hard to distinguish these things when your sex slaves are mincing around in tiny tank tops.) <p> "Belonging" pushes that sex-slave theme to its limits. It bubbles over with unsettling insights into the Dollhouse's ethical status, fueled by brilliant performances by both Dachman as Sierra and Fran Kranz as Topher, whose status as Sierra's creator/brainwasher is given tremendous complexity (he's regretful, he's complicit, he's innocent, blood is on his hands). In other words, it's a serious treatment of ideas that came across as queasy in the show's "fun" episodes, which often had the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too effect of necro-porn like CSI. In contrast, "Belonging" is (in a very unpedantic way) a genuinely radical feminist plotline, a truly unsettling metaphor about "false consciousness," the social condition that results when someone is convinced to crave something they don't in fact want at all. The moment one Dollhouse character shifts from one type of slavery to another is almost too hard to take. It's the kind of episode Andrea Dworkin would love through all four acts, and again, though I am certainly no Dworkinite, I mean that in a good way. <p> So what does this have to do with Mad Men? Aside from the fact that they are both created by men who studied feminist film theory at Wesleyan, the shows don't resemble one another explicitly: Dreamlike as it can feel, Mad Men is a period drama, Dollhouse a sci-fi allegory. But like Dollhouse, it's become increasingly clear that Mad Men is at heart Matt Weiner's nihilistic vision of a pre-feminist universe, a near-McKinnonite nightmare in which women are brainwashed into making choices that feel individual, but are the result of psychological pathways so narrow as to be suffocating. Even a sassy broad like Joan, so socially confident, vibrating with sexual power and emotional savvy, feels compelled to marry simply because she risks obsolescence as a single woman of 31. When her fiancé rapes her, she has a few choices: She could end the relationship, a humiliating social and financial dead end. She could scream, and become a laughingstock, the subject of pity and scorn. Instead, she moves forward, brushing the humiliation off and putting on that white dress that is her own Dollhouse contract. <p> The German nanny has even less choice: Pete's social power is so transparent that when he blackmails her into sex, she gives in — and though he feels guilty, it's likely for the adultery. Given the way men treat women in his world, it's unclear he even knows what he's done wrong. <p> Weiner's world is not a simplistic one: Sal gets sexually blackmailed too, and like the nanny if she'd continued to protest, he's fired. And it's important to remember that Don Draper himself, that swaggering ultramale, was pressured into sex by Bobbie just last season, when she thrust her hand down his pants in that car during a hailstorm — if he said no, he'd lose the account. Nonetheless, it's clear that if the men on the show have restricted choices, the women's are far grimmer, both economically and psychologically: As Gail Collins' wonderful new book When Everything Changed points out, in 1960, "women accounted for 6 percent of American doctors, 3 percent of lawyers, and less than 1 percent of engineers." Sheer dependency makes it nearly impossible for even the most lively young woman to see one's life as anything other than an extended game of Mystery Date — a pretty bad bet in the end, even if nobody is literally inviting them into a van for a relaxing "treatment." <p> By: Emily Nussbaum
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:02 p.m. CST
in a stripe shirt, top-gun sunglasses & cackies. Dealbreaker!
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:04 p.m. CST
Downloaded a doll to be his "wingman". Douche.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:04 p.m. CST
Make that 2 dolls!
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:05 p.m. CST
She liked Victor from the beginning.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:09 p.m. CST
So, so icky. He makes her do *cosplay*. COSPLAY! No deserves cosplay.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:13 p.m. CST
"You aren't looking hard enough; you never do."
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:15 p.m. CST
Topher, you are a bad man. Get better.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST
wool over Adelle's eyes. Raping bastard who takes sugar.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:21 p.m. CST
to punch that douche's heart out & show it to him? Not very britsh but very satisfing.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:22 p.m. CST
Adelle is deluding herself.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:25 p.m. CST
They are ordering her to make Seirra permantly mind-wiped?? That's against Adelle's rules. No wonder she's drinking.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:26 p.m. CST
of your toys." Je-SUS.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:28 p.m. CST
Writing in her sleep cell! Like a prisoner... <p> fuckame
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:31 p.m. CST
Douche dose; die.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:31 p.m. CST
Topher is going to program her to kill the guy?
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:33 p.m. CST
Different prison; same walls.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST
"No choice". Always a choice. Always.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:37 p.m. CST
Topher you magnifigant bastard! Hey, actives fuck up all the time...oops!
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
Topher, you are my new favorite character.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
but to see him disobey Adelle's orders makes me want to go into work & take out all the lead in my mechanical pencils.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST
Great movement for Echo.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:45 p.m. CST
responsible for kidnapping & rape, he ratches it up to murder.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:47 p.m. CST
Not as cute and innocent as I thought he was in S1. One step away from The Cleaner in Pulp Fiction.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:50 p.m. CST
Fuck Boyd, man. He's hardcore.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST
Darker, Kinkier and Better. <br /><br />Fuck the Haters. Go Watch Something Else if you Can't Handle Dollhouse.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Grace Park can act also...and Tricia Helfer is a truly great actor, as well, the actor who played Baltar is elite. Those are the folks from Galactica who Whedon should have been eyeing for Dollhouse, not the bland two guys that he picked. And yes, I am a fan of the young lady from Australia, but sadly for me, I am not her agent or her boy toy, or husband--I'd love the latter role, however. I have a bit of a gift for spotting talent, and knowing if that person has a future. I recall when Heath Ledger was on Roar--a Fox show that most don't recall, but I picked him as someone to watch. Kevin Bacon...also, when he was on Guiding Light...and Ming Na when she was on As The World Turns...etc. I've done it a lot, not in any official capacity, just as a fan, but I can spot 'em before they break big.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:53 p.m. CST
*sniff* Beer callbacks make me cry.
Oct. 23, 2009, 8:59 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Somebody over in the Road Warrior sequel Talkback...posted one hell of a story outline there...for the movie--an original outline by the poster, I assume? I'll tell you, if I was a studio exec or George Miller, I'd buy that outline right away...as it is rather brilliant. Sadly for me, I didn't think of it, but I am always happy to give kudos where, and when, it is deserved.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:02 p.m. CST
Did you ever see Parker Posey on As The World Turns? She played a character named Tess in the 1991 to 1992 seasons and I remember thinking she was way too cool and quirky for a soap opera. Cut to 2 or 3 years later and she's the Indie Movie Queen for several years. It is cool when you catch someone before anyone knows who they are.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:05 p.m. CST
I know that there would be no storyline if he didn't wipe her but imprinting Sierra as her orginal self Priya was twisted art. And poor girl just wants to forget everything; she's very much like November/Madeline in that regard. Topher pimped out his laser buddy, then had to cut up the remains of her john when things went wrong. And I don't believe for a *second* Boyd couldn't have done the clean up himself. It was just another lesson that makes Topher get his Crazy PHD.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:22 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
She played one of the cool in kids on the show. Lauryn Hill was on the show also, Marisa Tomei...at one point, Ming Na as I mentioned before, and Juianne Moore. And before them all, a slightly over-weight Dana Delany. They were all very noticable, but I must confess I never thought that Julianne Moore and Parker Posey would rise to becoming respected indy film actresses, but I was very pleased--and to see them become stars in mainstream films was thrilling.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:25 p.m. CST
is summer glau in this?
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:33 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:33 p.m. CST
It's called bad acting.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST
Did you watch? I am so proud of you for actually watching something before you post a comment on it. That is much more progress than Dollhouse made tonight.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:43 p.m. CST
Less Dushku and more of... everything else... would get this show much better ratings
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:43 p.m. CST
But also to give the show a third, or fourth chance (I've lost count). I will say that "Dollhouse" is the only Whedon-show that I can return to out of interest in the premise ("Buffy"/"Angel"'s vampire camp does nothing for me; "Firefly"/"Serenity"'s space-western/opera shtick has been done much, much better elsewhere, and has way too much Johnny Reb spirit for my tastes). I like the idea of people being wiped of their memories and given new ones as a commercial enterprise, yet I have to admit that it's so shaky and questionable that it only makes sense when the big-evil corporation funding them is put into the foreground. This is why the first few episodes of Season 1 felt clueless-- the mad-science only feels plausible if you show us the evil suits who want to profit from it, and without them you're left with plot holes galore. <p>This episode had the corporation up front, which was good-- it fits well with the context of all this questionable science and the use it's going to be put to. I'll also say that the only reason I still have any interest in this is because of "Epitaph 1", which not only should've been shown in broadcast last season, but should've been the fucking pilot. When I first heard the premise for the show, it sounded interesting, but woefully implausible, as the technology seemed way too expensive to be realistic for its uses, and way too vulnerable of exploitation. If the show had been up front about this from the get go, showing us just how sinister its real intentions are, and how cataclysmic its exploitation will be, then I might've been more interested much earlier. It would've been a stronger show, a must see. Now, it's just a mild curiosity-- just strong enough to draw me in every now and again, and just weak enough for me to be capable of forgetting about it completely after a week has passed. <p>Anyway, I know it isn't his style, but Whedon needs to stop playing things so close to the chest. The next time he starts a series, I hope he has the good sense to play a good hand when he has one right from the start, instead of wasting all his chips until there's almost nothing left to cash in.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST
I'm sorry but free Dollhouse toys or not these letters from Whedon are really bad. I really have a problem with the self promotion Whedon does with everything. By the way, was Whedon being a scab by making Dr. Horrible during the writer's strike? Not sure.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:46 p.m. CST
A bit standard during the fight scenes but I thought he did well introducing the always funny magnifing glass. Seems he has a penchant for the headshot which worked well in this episode, emotional as it was. What really stood out for me was the lighting. I said Adelle looked sickly but it wasn't because Oliva is unattractive. They have a wonderful DP this year who can make that HDcamera walk & talk.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:48 p.m. CST
So much for solidarity. Then again, maybe he isn't a union-member? In which case I wouldn't hold it against him. The unions seem to have a bit of a stranglehold, anyway, so I don't know if I'd hold it against him if he was, either. But it does seem a little self-serving.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST
I know some people aren't in the union. My man Lucas isn't, but I wouldn't hold it against Whedon if he wasn't in the union. I just hate people talking about Whedon's greatness in all things. He really hasn't done that much. From the hype Firefly isn't that good and Dollhouse is really bad. Of course Whedon wrote it so it's perfect to his fans.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST
You DARE! (That was me pretending to be outraged.) But if you didn't know: Whedon used his own capital & implemented guidlines that the WGA were trying to get from the AMPTP (and a few they didn't eventually get). The actors & crew worked at min. scale with a backend royalty deal if it made money (It did.) Working for yourself during a strike is not being a scab.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:56 p.m. CST
it's fucking scary.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:57 p.m. CST
I was just wondering, thanks buffywrestling. So for a business man Whedon seems ok. See, I give credit when it's deserved, but no love for Dollhouse hehe. I really shouldn't say much though, I'm a blinded Star Wars fan.
Oct. 23, 2009, 9:57 p.m. CST
about how he works things. Most producers are not. *shrug*
Oct. 23, 2009, 10 p.m. CST
it would have been nice if he waited and not made it during a dry strike period. Everyone has to make money, but shows we all have to "sell out" a bit. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't get on Lucas for making money on Star Wars merchandise. I'm sure anyone would like a piece of royalty and merchandise coin.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:01 p.m. CST
for Lucas. May the forces of darkness be confused on the way to his door. <p>As for Whedon, in general-- I have nothing against him, or his shows. His fans are a little zealous, but persecuted minorities are entitled to their zealotry (up to a point). I just share very, very little in common with his fanbase, so I'm just not a member of a choir he can preach to. I don't like his dialogue, I find his characters hard to like, his stories strike me as B-grade masturbatory fantasy, and his visual acumen looks, to my eyes, about as well executed as a retard on the electric chair. That's just my opinion, however, and his admirers are certainly free to think differently. I just hope that "Dollhouse" improves soon enough for me to give a damn, because I do find it occasionally entertaining, but until it gets its shit together, it'll never be appointment television for me.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:07 p.m. CST
I just think people are in this its cool to rag on Lucas and Star Wars kick lately. Even though the prequels are no where near as good as the originals, I enjoyed. I get frustrated with Whedon fans and the whole "Joss is our new master" shirts and cult like love for the man and not the creation. I know lots of people helped Buffy/Angel along the way, not just one man. I know Timothy Zahn and others helped me love Star Wars.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:08 p.m. CST
And then the completely ridiculous re-set kicked in. I've tried, but I just won't miss this show. It tiptoes to the edge of great, then jumps headfirst back into the suck.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST
It was a perfect time to make it, what with everyone not being working. Not sure how doing something without studio or network involement is "selling out" though. Wouldn't it be the opposite of selling out, working for yourselves and not the "Man"? Isn't that comparable to what Lucus does? Is Lucas the "Man" now?
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:14 p.m. CST
I was thinking, "Topher, you just cut up a dead BODY for this girl, now you are gonna wipe her? Are you fucking serious??"
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:25 p.m. CST
I think you are right; Epitaph One could have and should have been the first episode. I think that it could have had more of a Lost-like structure if they went that route.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:27 p.m. CST
I'll make sure to bring back more snark laters. *kisses to Joss' salad & Redux*
Oct. 23, 2009, 11 p.m. CST
People who have a problem with it are douchebags. What do you prefer? Some cold corp doing it instead. How about a "Marketing Department" (the closest you'll get to the mythical pits of hell here on earth)?? How about some of those wonderful PR people everyone knows and loves. Grow up and come back, we'll chat. What a frustratingly juvenile attitude.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:07 p.m. CST
Smallville beats Dollhouse in the ratings this week. -J.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:25 p.m. CST
it's almost the same as a corporation doing it. Make no mistake all parties are in it to make money, Fox, Joss Whedon, George Lucas, all of them. I just hate when people rag on Lucas for selling the Star Wars brand. Sell away I say, nothing wrong with it. I just think it is naive to think that Whedon is this woe is me creator when Lucas does the same thing, but since Lucas has a corporation it's cold and evil while Whedon is doing it for the people or something like that.
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:36 p.m. CST
Oct. 23, 2009, 11:41 p.m. CST
All Fox does is distribute. Can you imagine the millions FOX loses on Whedon's tripe every year?
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:06 a.m. CST
Is the best shit on TV right now. But I love to sit around and listen to the do-nothing-talentless-never-will-be-anything-oxygen-wasting-shit-spewing-trolls who invade the forums to whine about how Whedon sucks. If you believe that the Nielson's are indicative of quality then go watch reality TV and CSI Miami and all that NCIS shit and all those medical drama's and stay the hell out of my face with your poop stained teeth.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:09 a.m. CST
Dude, I love scripted television, but I don't think Whedon is the new messiah. I want more things like Twilight Zone. Shows that make you think about social issues, not teenie bopper dialogue meant to be "hip". I thought movie and tv geeks like us didn't want to fit in with the mainstream, not watch overglorified CW crap IE: Whedon's bread and butter.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:19 a.m. CST
That is no excuse for making Whedon the poster child for unnerving quality. Jesus people in all of TV history there have been countless shows better than his tripe, yes I called it tripe. If you want better vampire shows go to Dark Shadows, better science fiction Star Trek, better weird scifi...Fringe or Lost.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Fox is paying itself as the this show is produced by Fox Studios, for Fox Televsion. Fox Studios and the Fox Network...have already paid for the infrastructure of their operation via investor monies, so they aren't losing any money...and the same is true of Lucas. He has already paid for the cost of his productions because he owns everything at Skywalker Ranch and elsewhere. The salaries for his employees, just like Fox...are already pre-set, and budgeted for each year, and covered. Hell, with just two to four movie gigs...doing special effects for any given blockbuster movies, Lucas pays for his employee salaries and overhead, the rest is just plain profit--and I haven't mention the TV commercials produced there, the audio mixing for movies, so on, and so forth--oh, and the vineyard. Yes, I have been there. BTW, they are a bunch of jerks, but I digress. The Star Wars prequels actually cost him nothing. He is just coming up with virtual costs. If you do something at cost to yourself...and you own the materials and infrastructure, and you have already paid your employees by other means, meaning--outside contract jobs, well, you are just making up expenses for tax reasons--it's like printing up virtual Monopoly money.<BR><BR>As for Fox, they did something similar with Titanic. The bulk of the budget of the movie was charged back to the film for the cost of building a studio in Mexico, a studio...BTW, that Fox is still using for its own productions, and renting out to other studios and production companies. This was just a creative way to rip-off investors, and make them pay for Fox' Mexico studio. <BR><BR>In respect to Whedon, his Dollhouse Box set...via sells and rentals, has paid for Dollhouse, and Fox hasn't lost a cent, they've only made money--and will continue into the future.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:29 a.m. CST
We knew Sierra wasn't brought to the DH in the same way from the closure ep last season, but here we see the full extent that bastard went to. I cheered her on the second I realized it was Priya and hoped she'd kill him once he attacked. Love that she knows she loves Victor. And wow, Boyd is a baaaaad man....hardcore. I really like when they play Topher like this. The layers are good. Also like that Boyd doesn't mind Echo being what she is, only disagrees with her methods. That all access pass is a big show of trust.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:30 a.m. CST
We all have guilty pleasures, but I'm not going to say the Toxic Avenger is Citizen Kane or anything like that. You like Buffy/Firefly/Dollhouse that's fine, but it isn't on par with other "classics" which is fine, but don't make it out to be the voice of the generation or whatever. Besides, the dialogue he uses is already out of date.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:43 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
I have a love/hate for Lucas, much like I am developing for Whedon. Lucas really made me understand the importance, and seriousness of God, via Star Wars, and he did that for a entire generation...using The Force as metaphor for Divinity. He is very special for that, and we appreciate his works. He changed so much in a positive way via his efforts, but Lucas soon lost sight of that, and embraced toy sales over story, and sold-out the Star Wars series with Return of The Jedi...and now the prequels. As for Jedi, the original story would have seen Han Solo and Chewie sacrificing themselves by ramming the Millenium Falcon into the core of the new Death Star. Luke was not Leia's brother, and yes, she chose him over Solo. Lucas changed that over the wishes of Harrison Ford and Gary Kurtz, the latter man being the film series producer, at the time. Kurtz and Lucas are still enemies over that issue, to this day. Now, as for the few times I was there visiting the Ranch, I found the employees to be stiff and scared of their own shadows, and Lucas' security team act like a bunch of Nazis (Storm Troopers). They are really paranoid and very hostile. I understand why considering that there most be many security threats coming from crazies, and over-eager reporters, and fans, etc., but it was very uncomfortable. In that way, I started to begin to understand those who said Lucas had sold-out. He was known, by employees, to build a building for 60 million dollars, or so, and then...have a temper tantrum...and say he didn't like how a certain room was constructed...and have the whole building torn down...and built anew? Now, that is how you act when you have sold-out. He should have given that damn money to charity instead. Shame on him!!!
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:46 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
I am still tired of the client of the week format, though. Still, it was a great script, direction, and acting. Sierra can kick my ass...and make love to me, anytime, at the same time!!!
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:47 a.m. CST
I believe he paid to have a building built at one of University of California campuses. Plus, the man's children are all adopted. I applaud anyone for adopting.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:24 a.m. CST
Possibly my fave to date? And the one that made my skin crawl the most. Hmm. I know a lot of people are commenting on how long it's supposedly taken Dollhouse to "get good." To them I say, go back and watch the first season and a half or Buffy. Or the first season of Angel. They aren't bad but they don't reach anywhere near the heights that those shows are so beloved for.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:27 a.m. CST
Then does that mean you were lying about your proclamation over a month ago that Dollhouse "was the most improved show of the fall season". But if it's the most improved show... then that means that there was little to no need and/or room for improvement, yet you qualify this episode as "starts to get really good". Which, the unspoken implication is that it wasn't particularly good beforehand. I think the hyperbole is starting to swirl around itself and may create a black hole of contradictory logic. I'm frightened.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:37 a.m. CST
Good point! If it was improved and better why is this one the best to date? It's as though the fans of Dollhouse suffer from spousal abuse. Making excuses for the badness. I'm sorry I don't buy the ran into the door excuse.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:41 a.m. CST
Have you actually seen Firefly? It is light years beyond anything Whedon has done ever.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:58 a.m. CST
Firefly was good, and I did enjoy it. I just can't see all of the hype surrounding it. I might be out of touch with fandom, but it seriously was nothing special to me. I got the point of the show: rebellion and trying to find your place in the world or galaxy. I honestly get it, but lots of shows have that premise. I'm not knocking the show though, just the blind devotion to it's creator. I love Stan Lee, but his creations in the 90s and today are horrible.
Oct. 24, 2009, 2:40 a.m. CST
Dollhouse is the best show on TV right now, really? Please tell me you watch other shows that don't have the names Dr. and Horrible in the title?
Oct. 24, 2009, 4:09 a.m. CST
I can't remember a single SF TV show which treated the themes of memory/identity being downloaded, edited, uploaded before. On that alone, it had potential. <p> But best show on TV? Not by a long shot.
Oct. 24, 2009, 4:19 a.m. CST
making me go into Lorne Green death pose. <p> To Cat: Yes, I questioned Topher but he is immature as fuck. Not only does he have trouble admitting he was wrong; Adelle has him on a short leashthatscrreams "mommy" issues. <p> Jaydog: You can not compare the demo numbers from a CW show to a FOX show. The CW affiliates play on half of the number of stations that networks like FOX do. <p> Joss' salad: I get the feeling that you think most of us are blindly devoted to whatever Joss Whedon does but I also get the feeling that you haven't seen much of what he has done either. All told he has put on 15 seasons of televison. How many have you watched?
Oct. 24, 2009, 4:23 a.m. CST
Give it to me straight, bro.
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:07 a.m. CST
by spike fan
nothing bad or terrible but certainly not brilliant and certainly not a patch on Farscape which was far superior in everyway (Maybe not the first half of S4 but certainly back to form in the 2nd half) Serenity The film was good fun though again nothing amazing. As for Whedons other works I say again his primary weakness is he was too self indulgent (Belived his and fanboys hype) and would raise (or try to) an issue or storyline then either just drop it/ go left of field or simply pretend it never happend. Primiary examples are Chosen were the rape metaphor from a few episodes ago (Complete with evil black men!) became a female empowerment message (Never mind all the other holes in that episode) or lets not forget dropping Willow's charachter journey from one about her own insecurites and desire for more power (classic Tragic hero of the Cambellian mold) into Willow the victim with here magic is Crack metaphor complete with people trying to steal Sage!!!!
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:40 a.m. CST
Spikefan, are you high? How is Buffy refusing the power *forced* on her in any way out of context to what she has done before? And Willow's arc was almost as incompassing as Wesley's. She went from "softer side of Sears" to "Darth Rosenberg". I agree that the drug metaphor was heavy-handed but if I didn't see that, the yellow crayon save wouldn't have meant anything.
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:44 a.m. CST
Loved having Agent Lundy from Dexter as the face of the Rossum corp. If the show wasn't cancelled, this would be a great indication of how Adelle would eventually turn on the corporation, and her Dollhouse might become resistance H.Q. <p> I liked Victors childish simplicity of removing the paint without removing the problem. <p> My biggest problem is with the pacing. They wrote this as if they still had years to layer and develop, whereas Fox made it clear that this show needed a kick in the ratings-ass. Eliza continues to be "Meh" in her acting.
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:52 a.m. CST
by The McPoyle Clan
Dushku, and her mission of the week not a factor. Coincidence? I think not.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:02 a.m. CST
Oliva was foine form tonight as Adelle; her manipulative, torn best. I liked what they did with Echo in this episode. Instead of being just a vessel, she sort of became a conscious on Topher's shoulder. But you're right; this show should have got bat shit insane awhile ago. I think we'll get closer to that when Alan Tudyk returns
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:11 a.m. CST
by spike fan
Buffy was chained up by evil black men who wanted to infect her with demon mist. She of course rejects it and breaks there staff (penis) and escapes. Then in Chosen she is blabbing on about how she was never given a choice to have Slayer before then deciding to make thousands of girls slayers themselves (Where is there choice?). Whedon knew this but decided to ignore it in favour of having the ending he wanted (The shitty smile and Wal-Mart comments) as for Willow S6 we have to disagree in the start of the season and seasons past it was shown as a woman with deep insecurites (how others see her primarily) and her own hubris and desire for more power hence mind raping her own girlfriend not once but twice and being angry with Giles (Best scene in a shit episode and of the season) in Flooded. That changes to her visting Rack that rymes with Crack get it!!! and being infected by the magics (Which the season last had been a lesbian metaphor!) To having a mysognist kill her girlfriend so its less her making the decision and more her being a victim of circumstance ergo the charachter goes from an instigator of events to being manipulated by events. Now you may think its great but to me it was just bad story telling and dont get me started on the Dawn charachter urggh
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:28 a.m. CST
you go for average. i choose different.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:01 a.m. CST
Prime Slayer was African; the men who chained her to the earth were African. Don't make it fucking seem like black men chained at white girl down; Buffy went through the portal to gain more power, which she refused once she saw how the original slayer was imbided with the power in the first place. And bullshit she didn't give them a choice. She gave everyone a choice to stand or run, especially the potentials that she knew about. When Willow activated the spell to make all the potentials Slayers, the Scoobies had no idea that there were other potentials that were not gathered up in that room. <p> And I know your fucking high if you are trying to compare Willow getting her witch-fu on as a lesbian metaphor. They forshadowed Willow's tendancies in 'Dopplegangland' in season 3. <p> They were all manipulated by events beyond their control. In fact, the only time they became instigators was when Buffy decieded to take the fight to the Uber!Vamps, instead of waiting for the apocalyse to come. <p> Dawn was foreshadowed - along with Buffy's death in S5 - in Season 3 during the Faith dream sequence.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:14 a.m. CST
by spike fan
I was trying to debate with you constructively with out the ususal Yaboo stuff on here. You disagree with me or think I am wrong fine you dont need to rant. Whether it was inteded to be rascist or not it came across that way. Firstly in the S5 Episode Family magic is clearly portrayed as a lesbian metaphor (wiccan lifestyle etc). As for Chosen no wear is it stated in ethier the script or episode that Buffy didnt know all the potentials (who didnt have a choice) around the world would have Slayer power foisted on them. Finally as for Dawn I was not talking about the forshadowing so to so speak (As you said Whedon had the idead since S3) but the execution in how that idea was portrayed which was all over the map in terms of plot holes while it basically changed the whole premise of the show's main charachter. At the very least the charachter should not have got past S5 and from her role (or lack of one) in 6 and 7 it seemed like Whedon didnt know what to do with her either other than have her around in the hope she might generate interest for a spin off or because he liked the actress. But thats JMO. Anway have fun.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST
by spike fan
The rascist or not sentence was in regards to the Get it Done episode and not BW his/her? self which is what it comes across in my post. Sorry its my bad typing skills.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST
great episode! even better than epitaph 1, in my books. who knew that alongside all that bad 'blank-doll' acting, was some talent. I think Dichen Lachman could/should have been the lead on Dollhouse rather than Dushku. at least she can actually create a connection with the audience.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:41 a.m. CST
all the time. It's not personal; I'm puntuating point. In Family, the gay was represented by a magic spell (singular) between Tara & Willow; the magic in itself is not a metaphor for gayness or wicca. <p> And again, Buffy only knew of the potentials she saw before her; she wanted to win the war. She didn't suppose that there might be other pontentials around the world; she saw what was in front of her.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:46 a.m. CST
by spike fan
I think we are gonna have differing opinions on Buffy but its fun debating. As for refishbluefish you have pretty much got to the bub of the problem. Having Dushku as the lead when she is plainly not good enough. Problem is its her vehicle she was paid by Fox for doing shows and she is a producer on this show (She bought Whedon on board not the other way around) and she is not going to be going anywhere anytime soon.
Oct. 24, 2009, 9:04 a.m. CST
As stated above, this show wouldn't even exist without her deal with Fox. She's the lead and she has a producer credit. Why do you assume she has no involvement in the behind the scenes creative decisions that have made the show what it is?<br /><br />Do you people expect Meryl Streep level character creation from an hour long sci fi show on Fox? What's wrong with Eliza? She's funny when she needs to be, sexy when she needs to be, tough, sad, sassy, etc. etc. Whatever the "persona" calls for.<br /><br />Her delivery of the "bad storm" line is a perfect example. She took the mickey out of it by playing it as a child who knows something's wrong and doesn't know how to articulate it.Not the ominous knowing tone that cliche is usually imbued with.<br /><br />In a world where Mariska Hargitay is routinely given Emmys for playing a cop on a procedural, do we really need to hate Eliza Dushku? She was great as Faith, good as Tru Davies, and I'm liking her in this too.<br /><br /> Have you ever considered that the whole premise of the show is a satire of Hollywood's tendency to plug a hot babe into any role, regardless of whether she's believable? If you have problems buying Echo in one of her many personas, that's part of the subtle message of the show. The clients know she's not really who they're fantasizing she is, just like we know Denise Richards wasn't really a scientist in that James Bond movie, and Megan Fox would probably not be so devoted to Shia Lebouf in real life. It's a FANTASY.
Oct. 24, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST
by Mockingbird Girl
You don't need Meryl Streep to see that there are other actors on DOLLHOUSE whose acting skills are much more nuanced than Eliza Dushku's. And, unfortunately, giving her a different personality every week tends to highlight her lack of range.<P> As for the show not existing without her? Only because her contract with Fox meant that, if Joss wanted to cast her, he had to stay with Fox. Pity, really. A little more flexibility on his part and the show could have been distributed by *any* network -- including cable networks that would give it more love than Fox does!
Oct. 24, 2009, 9:40 a.m. CST
I really really wanted to like firefly. Fell asleep on it when it was on tv. Bought the BluRay, fell asleep on that too... Only thing good that ever came out of firefly was Serenity. That movie kicked some major ass, in comparasin to the boring, no music soap opera that was the show. I've liked dollhouse since the start, however this season was rather tame till last nights episode. I hope Joss pulls out all the stops and drops 3 seasons worth of bombs on us in the remaining episode order.
Oct. 24, 2009, 10:15 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Really, she doesn't want to act--she isn't even really trying at this point. She should just quit acting and marry me. She needs something to do, and I need a wife, so...we'll be even.
Oct. 24, 2009, 11:28 a.m. CST
MM might and I stress MIGHT finally cure that pesky and persistant virginity problem. Hmmm, on second thought probably not.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:19 p.m. CST
but CBS, they got no clue. and whatever is shown on NBC & ABC is not sci fi in its purest form. so if any network loves sci fi, its FOX.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:22 p.m. CST
no way can it ever occur unless media messiah finds a way to cure his PRE-MATURE EJACULATION problem.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:22 p.m. CST
dushku was cool as Faith. unfortunately Dollhouse showed us that she has a very limited range as an actress. it doesn't help when her co-stars out-act her.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:26 p.m. CST
who want to chain themselves to a woman who will destroy every fabric of their being slowly. best to avoid it and die alone.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:28 p.m. CST
change of skills. if COD4 taught me anything is that you cant have more than 3 perks.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:30 p.m. CST
ever since the first episode i came here and said that its major problem was the setting, a modern setting didnt help the concept and i suggested a slightly futuristic one. that way the dollhouse service will be actually needed and believable.
Oct. 24, 2009, 12:42 p.m. CST
by Mockingbird Girl
It simply needs more episodes like last night's -- that address the ethical dilemmas and moral compromises of the characters -- and fewer episodes in the vein of, "hey, what if Echo were a rock star/mommy/dominatrix/veterinarian!"
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:14 p.m. CST
imagine a world where competing Dollhouse corporations try to rule the world by dominating the industry of personality change thing. like having a futuristic underground rebels using dollhouse service to infiltrate the fascist gov. wow man this idea wouldve been ace. too bad. SGU is way better though
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:18 p.m. CST
by Mockingbird Girl
Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense. A good series advances and deepens character development and ethical quandries. What you want is a cartoon. No wonder you like SGU better.
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:54 p.m. CST
@Mocking/Diox: Can't it have both? <br><br> @BW/SF: Once again, I would have to agree with both. Joss used magic as a metaphor for intimacy through much of the season (from Willow and Tara's first spell in Hush) forward. However, the way I read it, Joss was done with that story by Family and it wasn't necessary to continue with the metaphor. He changed the association to drug abuse subsequently since it was a different angle he wanted to explore. I don't believe the intent was to link the two (although many argued that was what he did). It was probably sloppy attention to the consequences of it. I don't think he needed to keep the metaphor, but it's transition was a bit "clunky" to say the least. <br><br> @Salad/SWR: I didn't read the early part of this thread, but I haven't seen anything since of anyone knocking Lucas. I've only ever seen Joss fans on boards about Joss's show -- but maybe there are Joss trolls on other boards that I am unaware of. In any event -- and I think SWR seems to get this more -- what does it matter if certain people like Joss's work or even think he is the next big thing. A lot of people are crazy about a lot of things, and if it does it for them, all the better. I've always been disinterested in American Idol, but know people who watch it religiously. More power to them. I like Lucas but haven't been crazy for him, but know people who love his work. More power to you. Let it be said that there are things in Lucas that you may recognize and appreciate that I am unable to see, but so it is the same with Joss. I haven't seen anyone on this board put Whedon on a pedestal (maybe Herc...), so what gives with this heated argument? You're right, Lucas rocks (for you). Awesome...
Oct. 24, 2009, 1:56 p.m. CST
I think like 35 people tuned in last night. haha
Oct. 24, 2009, 2:40 p.m. CST
into a series of kidde cartoons thereby destroying it. It's a shame that the Cartoon couldn't have been set after ROTS, and more adult.
Oct. 24, 2009, 4:24 p.m. CST
This episode is typical of the series so-far. Ho-hum. Note to Eliiza Dushku... if you want to expand and further your career get rid of your Valley Girl tick. Dichen Lachman... oh god... what a horrible actress. She hardly had a line that went past 6-7 words at a time. She sounded like a robot programmed with her lines. Plus I notice Tibetan women nearly all have man-faces. Some of you think she's hot? I shouldn't be surprised when plenty of posters in here also think Sarah Silverman is hot too! Yeah if you like boys.
Oct. 24, 2009, 4:37 p.m. CST
Warning--if this talkback dies, i will repost this in the firday ratings talkback... i want to hear as many talkbackers take on this as possible. We all know Media MEssiah thinks he's already got it in him to be a writer. We all know he posts his 'treatments' and 'outlines' claiming that they show he is a writer. We all know he's the only one on these talkbacks who claims he is a writer who already has the chops to make it in the business. We all know he is obsessed with challenging other talkbackers to 'best' him, as if the talkbacks are an arena for aspiring writers to compete with each other. So, after coaxing him into it, he posted an original piece of writing that is supposed to prove to us that he has talent. SO, here it is for those who missed it:<br><br><br>"The Smoker" <br> Written By Media Messiah 10-14-09 <br><br><br> Bus Stop...Ext.--Night <br><br> A young woman, approximately 30 years old, sits awaiting a slow to arrive bus on the damp streets of this unincorporated east coast city. The name, era, and place, are unimportant, as this could be anywhere, anytime, in the last quarter century. Fidgeting with her long, colored fingernails, the young woman taps-out a timed beat, literally counting the seconds 'til the arrival of the bus. Her eye-popping nails, unintentionally serve as a marked contrast to the light gray hoody, and faded blue jeans that she wears. Still-- there remains a single commonality between the 3 artifacts...as each would suggest that she hails from a simple background. Something that her Versace purse knock-off would instantly confirm to any discriminating onlooker. <br><br> Crossing the street, a lone man, approximately 35, to 40 years of age, joins her at the bus stop--sitting down on the bus bench, just adjacent to her position. He is wearing a simple black jacket, and sweat pants...of the same color. His head, covered with a black skull cap, only a wisp of his curly blond hair can be seen...as it snakes past, and behind, his right ear. He takes a drag off a short cigarette butt, before tossing it on the wet pavement below his sneaker clad feet--expensive sneakers, the young woman quickly notes, with a glance of her eyes. <br><br> Smoker: Fresh rain? (he beckons the female...who is sitting at his right) <br><br> Female: Just a lite shower. It stopped about 20 minutes ago. If it wasn't for my umbrella here, I'd be soaking wet...right about now. <br><br> She gestures to her umbrella, which is leaning against her left hip. Raising her right hand, she slightly brushes her brown hair with a single stroke. <br><br> Smoker: You got a smoke? (clearing his throat with the stumbling growl of an ironically placed coughing spat) <br><br> Female: No, I don't smoke--sorry! (beat) I gave it up about a year ago, along with my other bad habits--like drinking coffee, and my ex. <br><br> Smoker: Good for you. (beat) What bus are you waitin' for? (his clean-cut good looks, just as handsome as his inviting voice) <br><br> Female: The number 1...to the South Hamptons. <br><br> Smoker: Pretty ritzy place? <br><br> Female: Yeah, I just got a job there, working late nights...at a coffee house. The pay is low, but I get good tips. <br><br> Smoker: The South Hamptons? (beat) Say--that's been in the news lately? The police think they have a serial killer working the area? <br><br> Female: Yeah, I heard. Kinda creepy, huh? <br><br> Smoker: Hhhhhhmmmmm? <br><br> Looking west, the handsome man notices a bus as it turns up the street, and heads their way. <br><br> Smoker (cont.): The number 2 bus? That'll be...mine! (beat) Gotta go! <br><br> He stands up and walks forward at a deliberately slow pace, as he approaches the edge of the sidewalk. <br><br> Smoker (cont.--his back turned, to the female, he speaks once more): About that serial killer, they say he always dresses...all in black--a clean-cut friendly type, you know? (beat) He has a curious M.O., though. <br><br> Female: Oh, and what is that? (suddenly appearing anxious) <br><br> Smoker: He only kills people who he shares a cigarette with? Funny thing, huh? <br><br> He pauses just short of the bus, as it parks before him. Searching his pockets, he pulls a lighter out of his jacket, and coolly flix it, sparking a low flame. Slightly turning to make eye contact with the young woman, he issues her...the glimmer of a knowing smirk. <br><br> Smoker (cont.): Have a nice night--now. <br><br> The doors of the bus open...and methodically, the young man boards the bus, almost seemingly, a man on a mission. Directing his eyes at the bus driver, he betches a simple request. <br><br> Smoker: You got a smoke? <br><br> Driver: Yeah--sure thing. The driver reaches into the left breast pocket of his shirt, as he begins to drive-off. <br><br> The young woman's eyes sweep along the bus windows. In seconds, she can see that the Smoker and the driver are the only two souls aboard the bus. A look of fear instantly washes over her face. Death had just past her by, she knew. Opening her purse, she pulls a lighter out, followed by a cigarette. Promptly, she lights-up. <br><br> Female: I hate smoking with strangers. <br><br> Quickly, she takes a drag from the cigarette in her now shaking hands, before learning back upon the bus bench, as she exhales. Filling her lungs with air, she speaks. <br><br> Female (cont.): I really need to give these things up. <br><br> Her eyes focus on a nearby trash can, sitting to her right--and then, back to the cigarette. <br><br> Female: Maybe, tomorrow. (beat) For now, I think I deserve a treat? <br><br> We see the number 1 bus turn onto the street, and begin its approach toward the bus stop. <br><br> Fade To Black <br><br> The End ****************************** *******************
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:11 p.m. CST
the above example of media messiah's writing prowess was exactly what i expected and exactly what i hoped for. Yes, I lied when I said i'd post a piece of writing to compete with his. I never inteded to, because frankly, i don't give a shit about proving myself as a writer amongst a group of non-writers. MM thinks he's got what it takes, whereas I believe I have alot of hard work in front of me to get to a respectable level of writing.<br><br>What I did want to do is beat Media Messiah at his own game. For the longest time, we would see all his outlines and hear him tell us to write better outlines than his. He insisted that those outlines show his talent. I tried to beat it into his head that trying to improve upon someone elses work is not writing. For example, in the battlestar galactica talkbacks, people were throwing out their ideas. These are average talkbackers having fun. Media Messiah thinks his ability to attempt to improve upon someone elses work is a talent few possess... fact of the matter is that everyone likes to speculate and share how they would have done things. its not a skill--sharing ideas about how we would do things is where the term 'everybody's a critic' comes from. And its true--everybody is a critic.<br><br>So, Media Messiah, if you still believe writing things based off someone elses work is a skill, well then I'll apply that alleged skill to your little script.<br><br>Your script is boring and unoriginal. The 'twist' at the end was compeltely predictable and left zero impression upon me. I think I could take your dull and predictable script and make it better. (the skill you say few have and claim to possess).<br><br>The dialogue is dull, but i'll look past that. Your story could have been a hell of alot more clever if you did everything the same, up until the very end. Here's what would have made your script worth the minutes of my life i spent reading it:<br><br>The man gets on the bus and takes his seat, not asking the busdriver for a smoke. (for effect, lets say it has gotten dark) As the bus drives away, she takes out a pack with 15 cigarrettes left, has a smoke, puts it out and flicks it away. very shortly thereafter, a young 18 year old girl walks to the bus stop. She says that she's new to the city, lives in a tiny apartment alone and hasn't really met anyone yet. she admits she's lost, and asks the lady if this was the right bus stop. The lady says yes. The young girl says how scary it is to be living in the big city. The lady kind of comforts her, and says its scary for everyone at first. The young girl appreciates it. The street light above the bus stop blinks on and off fow a few seconds and then shorts out completely. The lady turns to the young girl and asks: 'hey, do you have a smoke I could bum?'<br><br>Thats how i would have wrote it. If i wrote out the dialogue, I'd probably discover my ending might come off as too predictable, so I might take out some lines that make the young girl seem too vulnerable and an obvious victim.
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:16 p.m. CST
and I am obviously refering to the Dollhouse episode
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:56 p.m. CST
I finally figured it out, what was missing from DH that made Buffy and Angel so interesting (and Firefly too, I imagine; I never saw it so can't speak authoritatively). The attraction of Buffy was the blending of the antiquity of vampires, werewolves, and other fantastical elements, with a modern sensibility, hip language, and the ignorance and indifference toward the past. This was crystallized in Giles' interaction with Buffy, but it was the fundamental tension that helped take ordinary monster-of-the-week formats and make it charming and hilarious. This was duplicated somewhat in Angel, though it developed more into the tension of a demon attempting to deny his dark side and fight for good, and the various compromises he and his crew faced. Even firefly, I imagine, had a tension between the captain's fundamentally decent nature and the cutthroat environment he found himself in. <p> With DH, however, there is no dramatic, thematic tension like that inherent to the setup. It's more of a science fiction mentality, commenting on an element of technology or society. But there's no clash between two seperate elements like in Buffy, no past meets future, no hero born in darkness atoning with good deeds. Just people with no memory getting into various scrapes and then getting out of them. So without that compelling underlying thematic tension, the accoutrements of individual stories and characters need to be brilliant and compelling themselves, and Whedon has traditionally relied more on story than character to drive his shows. The characters were allowed develop within the framework of the show. That's not the case here.
Oct. 24, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
...would be like losing one's virginity for any man. Did you see how she says "Fat asses" on the show? What a sexy women, to even decide to say such a line!!!
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:02 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
...or Seth McFarlene, not prematurely ejaculate with Eliza D in their arms? I mean, her initials are even...ED. When you look-up the word women in the dictionary, you'll find her picture proudly displayed there. Mmmmm!!!
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:09 p.m. CST
And that ran for 4 seasons! Poor Poor Whedon.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:17 p.m. CST
Well, Messiah has Ryan on this. He put up, and didn't shut up. Do I think he's a delusional weirdo with absolutely no chance on making it in Hollywood? Yes. But unless he gave you permission to post that, seems pretty low, dude. The basic word on talking about "making it" online is that you should be so busy trying to "make it" that you're not online. Every single minute not spent making money for the present should be building for the future. Both of you go back to your corners, and come out in a year and show your IMDB page.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:19 p.m. CST
I always thought she needed to work on one of these hammy sci fi series.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:25 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
...for cancer, that is the twist. The killer isn't as obvious as you might have assumed.<BR><BR>As for me thinking that I am a better writer than anyone else, well, I do think my unsolicited outline for Season 2 of Dollhouse bests what is now the current written paradigm of the show, and I standby that. <BR><BR>Lastly, I saw the outline that some fellow wrote for the next Mad Max film...that was posted in the Talkback for the film, a few days back. He is just a fan who was posting his musings about the upcoming movie, on AICN. The outline that he wrote--about a paragraph's worth...is inspired, and quite brilliant, and as I told him, I am jealous that I didn't write it. So yes, there are all kinds of talented people out there, and I did come up with a concept for the Mad Max sequel featuring the Feral Child from The Road Warrior: Mad Max 2--but this poster beat me hands down, and I was more than happy to tell him so, as I did. You can go and read my posts for yourself. I am not the arrogant person you think I am. I am just very enthusiastic about writing, art, and filmmaking--and sometimes overly so, but I am confident in my works, most of the time, at least, not that I don't blow it sometimes, and have my flubs. As I told you, it isn't easy being dyslexic.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:30 p.m. CST
Gosh, that was a stupid show. But fun! Well shot, and well performed! And the writing mostly lacked the kind of spunk and witticisms that fanboys crave nowadays, but it was always dead-set focused on the Rube Goldberg plot-machinations that made its story tick. Sure, that story was usually the thin, make-it-up-as-you-go-along variety, but it was entertaining as fuck-all. I'm glad T-Bag found a new home on "Heroes", and I'm just hoping the other cast members find decent gigs sooner or later.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:33 p.m. CST
The acting in it was stellar for TV. The Third season was brilliant.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:35 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
I haven't really been writing anything for almost a year. I have been very depressed over a girl... and sad news revolving around her. I can write at will, but I have no real inspiration or wanting to do it. Maybe sometime in the future, maybe not at all again, in respect to long form writing. I am just burnt-out on life, and wondering what sucker punch is coming next? <BR><BR>Thank you for your kindness though. Kindness is very rare these days, and I appreciate it, whenever I see it.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:45 p.m. CST
obviously you've got some real world stuff to deal with. Your best bet might be to get off the net for a while, and deal with it. Nothing good comes from being online, and no one nice is on it. Simplify your life, take care of the girl, see someone (priest, therapist, etc) and try to give yourself an opportunity to brag when you come back on.
Oct. 24, 2009, 6:55 p.m. CST
Seriously, this show just keeps getting better and better. It boggles my mind that this is struggling to survive, while shit like Grey's Anatomy soldiers on like a fucking cockroach.
Oct. 24, 2009, 7:51 p.m. CST
Seriously. Therapy. Lots and lots of therapy.
Oct. 24, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST
i didn't post MM's script without his permission--i copy/pasted it from a previous talkback. I'll give MM credit for one thing: he did finally post something original. Also, MM may 'have me on this thing' in the sense that he 'put up' while i didn't post anything to 'challenge' him... but i could care less. i don't use these talkbacks to toot my own horn and insist i'm a writer with the talent to 'make it' today, and make posts claiming i know how to fix a given show more than the showrunner and writers. I don't claim to be 'brought up in the business' and then spend all my time on the talkbacks thinking talkbackers are showrunners/writers. <br><br>Yeah, I didn't put up my end, and i could give a shit about not holding up my end. i was just dying to read something original by MM.<br><br>OK, MM--it was a metaphor for cancer... you may see that, but when I reads through your script, I am left thinking it was about a serial killer. By the logic of your metaphor, am I supposed to believe that any horror movie with characters/villains smoking cigarrettes a metaphor for cancer? If you want to make it as a writer, when you are going for a metaphor, you got to make sure that you've given the reader enough to make that metaphor come across.<br><br>So, regarding my motivations, I just wanted MM to post something original for two reasons: `1) to see if he has the talent he claims to have. 2) to do what he has done with dollhouse sooooo many times--use the foundation of someone else's original work and show how i can 'fix it.' Maybe my 'fixes' to MM's story may not make it better, and again, i could give a shit. I wanted MM to see what its like when someone attempts to make 'fixes' to their original work. That's what MM has done to Whedon regarding doilhouse for as long as the show's been on the air.<br><br>No question about it--i lost the challenge, but as i've said so many times--i could give a shit whether or not a talkbacker thinks i'm a good writer...
Oct. 24, 2009, 8:18 p.m. CST
One more thing, MM: did i miss your metaphor? yeah. feel free to tell me i can't read between the lines. But while you're doing that, think about one thing: How do you know Whedon is making metaphors in his show that YOU'RE not picking up. My goal was to try to put you in Whedon's place and make myself that delusional talkbacker Media Messiah who thinks he can make anything better than the real professionals with actual talent who have worked their assess off to get jobs as a showrunner/writer instead of working their asses off on the message boards of a website for geeks in a tireless effort to prove you can do better than the pros. put in the work and get off the talkbacks for a while. come back when you've accomplished something and i'll be the first to congratulate you.
Oct. 24, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST
Media Messiah--I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for you. Why? Because I really, really, really tried to get through to you. 4 or 5 years ago, I WAS HERE on the bsg talkbacks even more delusional that you--i was positive i was going to earn myself a job as a bsg writer because of my rediculous posts. Eventually my insanity led me out on a small ledge outside of my apartment on the 22 floor DANCING--it is a true miracle i am still alive. I was thrown into the county psych ward, where i was so over medicated I was a zombie who couldn't stop drooling uncontrollably every time i opened my mouth. Because of the things i did as a schizophrenic without medication I lost the home i had made for myself in my fraternity at USC, lost all my friends from usc, lost the girl i loved and above all, was robbed of every ounce of dignity i had built up for myself. That was all in a matter of 3 days. I thought i was better, moved to downtown milwaukee, made a ton of new friends, but wasn't right in the head--so i found myself on that ledge. So I lost another home, I lost another group of friends, lost all my confidence, self esteem and pride. But when i got my meds figured out, I went back to school, graduated, got a job, finished with a 3.5 gpa in spite of the terrible grades i got before i was diagnosed, and i'm back on track, applying to grad schools. <br><br>I'll tell you, MM, things are only going to get worse before they get better for you if you don't step back and really try to see the things about yourself and your life that you are in denial of. <br><br> Oh yeah--through all that, i never stopped writing. To cope, I wrote lyrics about all that happened to me--i'm well aware i have no future in songwriting, but it let me express myself to myself about what i was going through and how i felt. Some lines come to mind when i think about you: <br><br><br> we all have known someone<br> who just fell off the deep end<br> we've all seen them go from<br> bent to broke then just to beaten<br><br>...<br><br> so do what i've been doing<br>don't get made just cause you're lonely<br>accept the help you've been refusing<br>make your life a come back story<br><br> one girl will fix all my problems<br> that's what some guys seem to believe<br> and write in their love poems<br> too sentimental and too nieve<br> <br> got to get yourself right first<br> which will take a ton of effort<br> can’t hide your issues forever<br> they’ll come out sooner or later<br> <br> and its likely that they’ll scare her<br> so much shes got to break it off<br> leaves you feeling worse than ever<br> hating yourself for all you lost<br><br> you can feel you've come so far<br> but then find you're falling back<br> figure out who you really are<br> which can be one hell of a task<br> <br> don't wander without direction or purpose<br> so consumed in all your self-pity<br> let yourself get so furious cause<br> life isn't what you want it to be<br><br> that's a dangerous outlook to have<br> letting your mind work like that<br> i've seen those who walk that path<br> once they go they don’t come back<br><br> i feel compelled to remind<br> myself what it all was like<br> I'm not that sure I know why<br> but I know i'm lucky to be alive<br><br> i'll forget all that shit in time<br> and become a very different guy<br> but for now I gotta deal with THIS LIFE<br> that's what I do and that’s why i write
Oct. 24, 2009, 8:47 p.m. CST
Just so they can snicker. Fuck heads.
Oct. 24, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST
Dollhouse should have been rebooted after Epitaph One, season 2 focusing on the continuing journey of the survivors of the post apocolyptic future. This would be the main story, with flash backs to our present day as seen in Epitaph
Oct. 24, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST
She seems to watch everything. She says both Glee and Dollhouse are on the same level.
Oct. 24, 2009, 10:29 p.m. CST
This whole fucking Talkback has gone batshit psycho.
Oct. 24, 2009, 10:40 p.m. CST
by Media Messiah
Nothing good happens on the net, the reason why I just cancelled one of my email accounts. I just go on now as a distraction--something to do, but I think largely it is a big waste of time. <BR><BR>You are a good soul. In regard to the girl, I think I'll have to work on that one alone...and just pray.
Oct. 24, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST
Its those damn restraining orders right MM?
Oct. 25, 2009, 12:30 a.m. CST
Oct. 25, 2009, 12:48 a.m. CST
That those two fucking morons are the same person anyway.
Oct. 25, 2009, 1:06 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
...in Joss Whedon's work for years. Buffy is brilliant in terms of metaphor and allegory, and again, I celebrate it, the allegory--even in Firefly, and Dr. Horrible--I just feel that the face story that is Dollhouse, is not as linear as it should be, for its own good--in terms of attracting a wider audience and demo. My comments are not meant to beat-up on Whedon, as I think he is a brilliant writer, but everything has been so, labrynthine with Dollhouse, that meanstream audiences just don't get it, and fans are also asking Whedon to get to the point, and expose what the story arc is leading to, and ultimately, is about, beyond just rich white men looking for fun, sex and perversions at the expense of bought love slaves? Read the above comments from pro-Dollhouse posters for yourself--many share that view.<BR><BR>I'm just saying that the story can, and should, have a more linear face to attract viewers, and keep them--meanwhile, the greater allegory can continue, and be as deep as Whedon likes. <BR><BR>Sometimes you have to trick viewers by hiding the greater message you have to tell in plain sight--however, Dollhouse is even hiding its greater message from Whedon's own core fans, including me...and you, perhaps--and that is the point of my debate? There is no need for you to attack me personally (continually) since, I have not done that to you, or Mr. Whedon, etc.
Oct. 25, 2009, 1:24 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
She pulled away after things went bad for her financially...and within her career--and the outlook was bad in mine, in the same respect. When you have a fatal illness, everything becomes immediate. She just wanted to jumpstart her life, what little she may have left of it--she wanted to live it fast. I can't blame her. She needed health insurance and what not, and I didn't have the money to support us. She found someone who did, and married him. She is a good person--she just wanted to live our dream to be married and have children, while there was still time. Sadly for me, she found someone else to do that with.
Oct. 25, 2009, 2:25 a.m. CST
by Media Messiah
What a charming and hopeful song. This one is for anyone out there who needs to smile. Cut and paste the address below in your net navigator, but take-out any space, or spaces that may appear in the address before you hit your computer keyboard's enter button.<BR><BR>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGBME8-yvJU
Oct. 25, 2009, 3:28 a.m. CST
after your recommendation, not particularly a fan of American football, but enjoy sports and quality drama, and this is good. <p> Question for you, are Texans really that religious?
Oct. 25, 2009, 6:17 a.m. CST
Dollhouse is a piece of crap anyway, i was just suggesting stuff to make it interesting just tio help whedon out alittle, coz i feel sorry for his stupid show. but if it were up to me i would can it and send it back to hobo town which is the only place where it will receive some attention, but even hobos have better tastes. <p> my idea was ACE! its on the anime side but thats what it needs since now its pretty tame and it got no reason to exist. SGU aint a cartoon, all stargate shows are about ethical dilemmas that you want so much infact the franchise has a better foundation for exposing those dilemmas while dollhouse's only dilemma remains to be about selling ones self and others using them, which isnt THAT far-fetched since thats what occurs NOW! the point of sci fi is to reveal NEW EXTRAORDINARY SITUATIONS that challenge our morals. but whedons is just weird not coz its sci fi but because it makes zero sense. thus its best to change the setting into a futuristic one where rebel groups and corporations rule the world.
Oct. 25, 2009, 8:54 a.m. CST
Thats twice we've seen him all bloodied up in some warzone? I want to know how HE got to the Dollhouse. Say what you like haters, long live the Dollhouse TB! <p><p>Hey Herc, you know what'll really piss em off...when the DH double bills start, do 2 Talkbacks!
Oct. 25, 2009, 8:56 a.m. CST
in the above post. Just to clarify: I am not Media Messiah, I really did not mean to do that.
Oct. 25, 2009, 8:57 a.m. CST
io9 suggests that this was a script meant for season 1, and they couldn't really retrofit Ballard into it. This theory makes a lot of sense.
Oct. 25, 2009, 10:27 a.m. CST
has the balls to blast Dollhouse when he cops to watching Guiding Light.
Oct. 25, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST
Just that. No speculations on the future of the show, its continued quality or the conspiracies behind its renewal, producers or which talkbacker could have done it better. It was a very good episode that makes me interested in more of the same.
Oct. 25, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST
Like most people with relgion its a sunday thing. You go to Church becasue that's what you do on Sunday and its a social thing more then relgious. At least that's what I think, but then again, I'm not a Texan nor relgious so take my opinin for what it is, an opinion.<p>Are you still in Japan?
Oct. 25, 2009, 3:33 p.m. CST
It's called a Glee spin off.
Oct. 25, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST
This show is going to meet Firefly, Angel, and Buffy in the abyss. <p>Shame, but I think Joss is better at writing comics than anything on TV now. <p>This show is real, real bad.
Oct. 26, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST
I've been away too long. Anyway, I liked Joss on X-Men until he did the usual and killed characters just for shock value. I see this in comics as a whole, so it's not just him. His Buffy comics are ok, just ok nothing special. Plus, I hate his name plastered over all of the comics, even the ones he did not write. As for not seeing all of his stuff and forming an opinion. I've seen every season of Buffy, Angel, the one season of Firefly, 2 episodes of Dollhouse, read his X-Men, some of his Buffy comics, and watched Alien Resurrection. I see why some people would like his work, but it's just not that special to me. I like it when a project lives beyond the writer. Those projects mostly lasted because of devotion to Joss Whedon. Who would read a Batroc the Leaper comic if Joss Whedon wrote it? How about West Coast Avengers? See, it's hero worship of someone who hasn't done that much.
Oct. 26, 2009, 9:24 a.m. CST
Why don't they bring back a good show?
Oct. 26, 2009, 11:14 a.m. CST
This is the best episode they've aired. It wasnt a superb piece of work that will be memorable in 5 years but if they put out more like this the series could be worth watching. Notice that they brought the issues that are inherent with the concept forward and they pushed Dushku to the background.
Oct. 26, 2009, 12:04 p.m. CST
Really well done. Hopefully the momentum continues.
Oct. 26, 2009, 8:47 p.m. CST
I don't know your history and haven't been keeping up with reputation people here have been talking about you but let me give you some advice. I can already tell you by that little piece of yours posted in here... that's not screenwriting. Probably the most paramount rule to screenwriting is you only write what you see and hear. You have a lot of explaining things going on in your description. You don't do that in writing a screenplay. If people don't get that through the dialog of your characters or by their actions, then it doesn't work. Your piece was too small to really make any judgement. If that's it and there isn't more to it then it wasn't any good.
Oct. 27, 2009, 1:06 a.m. CST
Good episode, and I was particularly impressed with the direction... most of all, the scene where Sierra stands in front of her painting, in silhouette, after the killing.<p> And I come to see that it was Johnathan Frakes. That's a surprise. I hope he gets more chances to direct.