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Massawyrm say THE ROAD is a trip worth taking!
Hola all. Massawyrm here.
THE ROAD is easily the single most human post-apocalyptic movie you are bound ever to see. It is neither happy nor fun, and is a rather heavy, brooding, somber affair that delicately balances its story of survival with moments of horror, action and romance. But make no mistake; it is not ABOUT any of those things. What serves this film best is that while it is by all rights a genre picture, it never attempts to play out as a genre picture. There are horrific elements not unlike those you would find in a TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE movie, but it refuses to be gratuitous or attempt to frighten you with cheap jump scares or gross outs. There are moments of survival on the edge of nowhere, but it never strives to become a western or THE ROAD WARRIOR. And while we follow a man pining for his wife, it is not a film that ever tries to entrench itself in the heartbreak of a romantic picture.
No, THE ROAD is entirely about humanity. It is a story of a man trying to raise his son in a dying world without ever giving up their ethics for the sake of survival. They are characters that would put a bullet in their own brain before resorting to cannibalism. They would trek a thousand miles on foot to find reliable civilization. And they are smart enough to avoid the pitfalls and traps of a world gone mad.
But they are also two very different characters. The father, Viggo Mortensen, is a true survivor. He knows the road; he knows how to make it through the day – what they can eat and what they can’t. But he’s also protective and selfish. His son is inexperienced, but possesses the joy and wonder of a world he never got to know while also wanting to offer kindness to strangers who might just up and kill them.
Once again director John Hillcoat, who previously directed the masterful THE PROPOSITION, creates a brooding, bleak and bloody morality tale set in a wasteland. This time around, rather than the dry desert of the “old west”, he paints a rather drab, wet, depressing world unlike any you’ve ever seen in post-apocalyptic fare. This isn’t the dusty, charred waste shot on a shoestring budget out in the middle of the outback. This is the real world, torn apart, gloomy and sad, with a permanent layer of ash lingering in the air, brought down by the constant rain that leaves everything covered in layers of grime, muck and filth. It is a refreshing and altogether frightening version of a future on the opposite end of some unnamed event.
Fans of the book will find a few things changed. Most notably the book’s centerpiece scene, a macabre incident involving a baby, is nowhere to be found here, which is probably for the best. The looks on people’s faces when they discuss reading that sequence in the book speaks volumes as to what might have occurred had that been put to film. It might not have made it through with an R rating, and might actually exist on the cutting room floor. But it’s not here. Also gone is the need for masks – a great visual in the book, but terrible for getting good performances out of actors. And as to be expected, there are a few minor changes as to how events go down, especially in the way the book fast forwards through the final, pre-epilogue chapter.
However, the film perfectly captured the morbid, weary spirit of the book and presents its morality tale in a thoughtful and entertaining way. While it is a film without a lot of action, what action beats and tense sequences exist are perfectly paced to keep the tension going. And Hillcoat is smart to capture just the right amount of hopeful, joy infused moments to keep this from simply being a post-apocalyptic THE PIANIST in which our protagonists simply suffer, suffer some more and then suffer again. That by no means makes this an adventure tale of any kind, nor something you’ll walk out pumped from watching; but it certainly isn’t the two hour cinematic train fucking that it initially appeared to be.
Harsh, cold and riveting, this delivers on everything it promises: an Oscar caliber film that transcends genre and truly captures the essence of Cormac McCarthy’s literature. Mortensen and Hillcoat prove to be an effective team that each delivers on their potential. Expect to be hearing a lot more on this as the buzz builds and this finally (after a year long wait) sees screens. Highly recommended for Post-apocalyptic film fans, but should be avoided by the squeamish or the sensitive. It is not a film that plays nice. At all.
Until next time friends, smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Massawyrm
Got something for the Wyrm? Mail it here.
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...some kind of collective? Like a hive mind?
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Nah, I think he's a slightly overweight middle-aged white guy who's going thin on top.
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Sorry Massa! Nice review though.
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has officially fucked my eyeballs. On a side note, why does he still have glasses but no clothing?
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Oct 20, 2009 12:37:26 PM CDT
Why bother, when everything will be underwater anyways?
by royston lodge
Wait, I'm thinking of another apocalyptic movie out this year. Carry on.
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Great book but for some reason I really don't feel the need to see the movie.
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That truly underlined how far society had fallen. Also, the fact that the word 'romance' was used early on worries me...there is NOTHING in the book that would be called romantic; in fact, his wife barely appears in it...the trailer has more of her than the entire book did. So, I must grudgingly disagree - there is nothing similar to the book; everyone who;s seen it AND has read the book says they're very different...the trailer clearly depicts why. On its own merit, the movie may be fine...but it is NOT Cormac McCarthy's The Road with several major elements removed/changed.
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Oct 20, 2009 12:39:56 PM CDT
Interesting that The Wyrm made no comparisons to The Postman...
by royston lodge
...which I think would be the knee-jerk reaction for anybody who sees the trailer.
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I'm going to have an extremely rough time recruiting my wife to see this one. As sad as i'll probably be when I leave the theater, i'm still looking forward to seeing this one.
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too soon
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That review was pretty carefully crafted.
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I read the book twice, and saw the movie only a few months after the second read. I wouldn't go so far as to say there are major elements removed/changed. It is effective enough that I didn't even notice the baby scene missing until afterward. I was very skeptical of the Theron scenes, but I thought it was worked in very well--it's all dream/flashback, and it didn't seem out of place. Dunno, maybe I'll be in the minority, but I found it to be very faithful to the book, even with a few details changed. The feeling of the book is perfectly invoked in the film, and to me, that's the most important element.
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Then that would be a FUCKING SPOILER, Massa.
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What the fuck does that even mean? I'm guessing you were smoking pot while writing this review.
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Literally.
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...Is there any word on when the promotional campaign for this is supposed to kick in? Everyone was under the impression that it was going to open on October 16th but they switched the release date (again) to November 25th. Considering the reviews I've read, I'm anxious to see just how the "hype/buzz" for this is going to take shape.Thanks for the review. I'm glad to liked the film.
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It tastes better.
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Bloody typos.
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Jesus I loved/hated this book when I read it. I still think they were nuts for leaving the bomb shelter. Hope the I can handle the movie, the book nearly had me in tears.
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I loved that scene in 500 Days of Summer.
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... I will see the movie.
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It's hard to root for a scene like that to make it into the film. But there is no denying its obvious power and I'm sure the effect it would have on the audience (depending on how it was portrayed) would be considerable. While I'm disappointed that it did not make the cut, I can't really say that I'm surprised. Chances are that there are probably enough horrors in the film to go around.
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Thanks... glad to see good reports about this. The book is wonderful, and it's looking like the movie has paid it due respect.
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How was his acting? I have heard mixed things about him....
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...then it makes me wonder how they're going to portray nearly everything in Todd Field's adaption of BLOOD MERIDIAN. Can you imagine?!
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can someone just spoil the baby scene for those of us who aren't going to read the book?
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I was haunted by this book.
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That's the point. Omitting the scene seems pretty damn weak to me. Unless they added some new, shocking WTF slap-in-the-face scene. If they didn't add a new scene, the new shocker will be found in the basement of the farmhouse.
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Cowards. Fucking cowards.
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Putting a bullet through my head is not an option I'd even entertain.
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It's been a while since I read the book, but from what I remember the father and the boy hide from some people going by on the road, 2 men and a pregnant woman as I recall. Later, as they keep traveling, they come across a bloody mess of a scene by an abandoned camp and realize that the woman had given birth and that they ate the baby.
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If they found it, someone else could find it. They couldn't stay in one place and it would have run out eventually anyway.
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Agreed. I wish it had been included, too. And your alternative suggestion is very probable.
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Two words: baby kabob
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A few random zombies wouldn't hurt either. Why hasn't Kevin Smith made a zombie movie? Imagine a bunch of them sitting around, exchanging hipper-than-thou bon mots as they munch on frat boy or housewife or rugrat. It reeks of immense potential."Is this a remake of Dutch?"... you, sir, just made me laugh like a little bitch. Well said.
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...if you can really say such a thing about THE ROAD.
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...as being a real scene. I thought you just sort of get the idea of what happened and it makes you feel ill...and that maybe it would be best to put down your book and mug of tea and just stop breathing....like the ear cutting in RESERVOIR DOGS.
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...that book makes you feel like a rabbit in wolf country.
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Shock us out of our stupor.
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..shouldn't have a depressing "baby roast" scene in it. That would be too depressing! I'm depressed that it won't!
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You can make torture-porn pseudo-snuff films which rejoice in sadism marketed at teenagers but a justifiable moment of pure horror in a serious work gets cut. Fuck Hollywood.
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I'm calling it. Honestly you can't go wrong with Hillcoat and Mortensen. Not to mention it's pretty much faithful to the book.
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It's quite explicit actually. A headless baby was being spit roasted over an open flame. I puked in my mouth when I read it. I'm surprised the scene isn't in there though. IMDB has a credit for someone playing "Baby Eater." Was it filmed and then cut?
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They're so edible.
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THE ROAD: the SLOW CHILDREN ROASTING cut
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So pumped for this film. Probably more than any other film this year (or next since it aint comin out till Feb) http://sickpicks.blogspot.com/
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But I knew it was something fucked up before I even looked up the definition.
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...does anyone remember McCarthy's scene in BLOOD MERIDIAN when the Glanton Gang rides past the bush that's been "decorated" with bloated fetuses?Fuck.
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...and I read THE STOLEN CHILD in the hospital while baby Flick was swimming her last lap before her big entrance. That's odd. THE STOLEN CHILD isn't as timeless as THE ROAD, but I recommend it. Wrinkly little old changeling children. Treated seriously...not really fantasy.
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I knew it was going to be a great film. The trailer is terrific. In a heap of post apocalyptic films The Road is one of the best.. just like in the heap of Vampire movies Daybreakers is at the top of that pile.
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The Road looks like my type of movie, the director seems to have taken the book seriously and not fucked about by putting a Hollywood gloss over it, and you can always rely on Viggo...
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Never
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blah blah blah humanity is mean when its desperate blah blah blah. boring low third rate philosophy.
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the generation who grew up on The Road Warrior are starting to ape Apocalyptic premises, which is why we're getting a sloo of these stories in movies and video games. I'm starting to grow weary of it all. Time to invent something new people.
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At least, baby chickens do.
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Me neither. Bring on the carnage!
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CHILDREN OF FUCKING MEN this will not be.
Pull my finger. -
roasted, is the E-trade talking baby. Any one any one else hear that?
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Quote: "...there is nothing similar to the book; everyone who;s seen it AND has read the book says they're very different...the trailer clearly depicts why."We must be reading completely different assessments of this movie then because everything I've seen supports the opposite.
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Start inventin'
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Oct 20, 2009 3:10:57 PM CDT
HEY I JUST FOUND A DELETED SCENE FROM PARANORMAL ACTIVITY
by bringingsexyback
This guy is clearly in the demon's possession:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e4caLZUrFw&feature=player_embedded -
...A) Reads literary fiction, and B) Uses a dictionary to look up words they aren't familiar with in the book they are currently reading won't be roasting any fucking babies when the apocalypse comes. God bless you good Sir or Madam.
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you eat first. BSB, Charlize was good, but my first choice would be Vansa Hudgns. yum
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With Zooey Deschanel as the appetizer.
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...tender little piggy.
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...no claws, no fur...just soooooooft and pink.
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so I didn't read the review yet, but the trailer is great! Looks like an exciting action thriller about bad weather! Hats off to the Weinsteins.
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It was almost a throway scene in the book - he doesn't dwell on it because that would miss the point. The whole world is in ruins - that's the real horror - an eaten baby here or there makes no difference. This review sounds like a review of the book, which gives hope that it could be a pretty faithful adaptation. Well done massa.
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Oct 20, 2009 3:23:05 PM CDT
...but I like my steak lean. If I go with Serena Williams...
by flickapoo
...there will be enough left over for sandwiches all week.You think all that exercise would make her chewy?
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Yeha I'm here to say that the trailer for The Road fucking sucked. Made it look like a god damn Roland Emerich disaster flick. But I'm fairly confident that was just yet another marketing fuck up.
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...there's a difference.
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Never know when your next meal will be gentleman.
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Literally.
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...the plump girl that was just fired from SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE. I would eat her.
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...so like in THE ROAD I wouldn't eat her all at once. I imagine cute AND funny girls are hard to come by after the apocalypse.
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How about it Har?
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section of the book was just as terrifying to me (if not more so) then the baby bar-b-q. The absolute dread of that scene, from the grey day outside to the house that doesn't seem quite 'right', to the unspeakable horror locked in the basement, then to the completely unbearable suspense when The Man and The Boy look out the window from inside the house and see four bearded men and two women approaching the front door. Damn, that was some sick shit. Didn't anyone else think that part was just God awful? How is that scene handled? Be interested to hear about Guy Pearce's performance too - have a feeling he'll be absolutely perfect for the very minor yet extremely important section of the book when 'The Veteran' is introduced.
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...veal is immoral.
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...the baby. Your stomach really doesn't untwist again for the rest of the story.
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because it was deemed obese.
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Cuz that meat would FUCK you UP. When the crazies come for me, I'd still be basking in the warm glow of the junkie meat.
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...no, I'd cook them sloooly and leave them right there on the spit. That putrid shit is poison.No way I'm putting that in this temple.
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My condolences.
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...was about as hardcore a thing as you will ever read in a book, and I am not surprised at all that it did not make it into the movie. As much as I hate for them to leave things out of the movie, I really don't see how they could have left it in and got the movie shown anywhere. People would have been so horrified that it would have caused a public outcry among certain folks. In fact, I'm not even sure I want to see something like that on film... it's bad enough in the book.
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Oct 20, 2009 4:03:59 PM CDT
Ironhelix - sometimes the most horrific images in a book..
by vic twenty
come off corny or comical in a film. The images I conjured while reading this book were far worse I'm sure than what they captured on film. Still, I can't wait to find out.
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Enjoy it, guys. I'm gonna avoid this lke the plague. There's more than enough misery in the current UK political climate to keep me down, this I do not need... :D
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"I still think they were nuts for leaving the bomb shelter.". If I remember correctly, they weren't that far from the farmhouse/mansion that had the dungeon /w people being used for food. The father knew that they couldn't stay too long and had to get going. Besides, they pretty much took almost everything they could carry/could find use for. I always got the impression that they mostly cleaned the place out save for the ammo he couldn't use and some of the luxury items. And I bet the baby scene was a deleted scene
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...or on a grill.
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I'm glad they left the baby scene out of the movie - it's so dreadful in the book, but you do have the option (as I did) of putting the book down, getting your mind off how bad that scene is, then coming back to it the next day or whenever. There;s no chance of that in a movie theatre, and that movie would never recover from a scene that sick.
Sounds like they nailed the book, anyway. If you want the most depressing experience of your movie-going life, go see it. And I don't need to see a single frame to know that Viggo will, as always, absolutely rule this film. -
if it will be treated as one.
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Pass the salt.
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everyone agrees the thought alone is pretty fucked so a very suggestive yet not graphic scene could have been done. kinda the less you see the more scary it is like in some of Quint's AHMAD titles.
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I already feel like this movie, which I was once so excited about seeing, is so...yesterday. Worst. Marketing. Job. Ever. Just put it on cable at this point, because we've all read the reviews and had the discussions a long, long time ago. At this point, I dont give a shit if it ever comes out.
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I'd rank it just as terrifying as the book. Same sense of forboding, and the camera goes right past the pile of sleeping bags in the corner. I heard one guy next to me go, "Oh, fuck," when he saw that. Dunno if he knew the book or just picked up that something was very, very wrong.And I agree that the farmhouse is more shocking than the baby scene. Maybe because it comes first, so you're desensitized afterward. I had to look up the scene again now that everyone's talking about it, and it's certainly not a "centerpiece scene" IMO.
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I feel icky trying to decide which scene of cannibalism is more shocking.
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...even in the book, it's mostly suggested as a statement of how low humanity had sunk. If it had been faithfully shot in the movie, it likely wouldn't have been used for the sheer shock value like you would see in a horror movie. In my mind's eye, it was far more graphic than it actually was on paper.
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Which was, let's be honest, pointless, didactic, redundant and plain boring as fuck. It's been done, folks--and better.
I dreamed about a penguin, the boy said
I know.
The world was grey. Dust and ash was everywhere. God. God. I hate you, God.
They ate a baby, Dad.
I know.
We are the fire.
Sure, kid. I know.
Dust and ash was everywhere.
THE END (fuck, thank God THAT'S over...) -
Pasta. Plain. But Good.
INGREDIENTS:
Pasta.
And salt.
And water.
And Fire.
DIRECTIONS:
Place the pasta in the water and the salt in the water and the water in the pot and the pot on the fire.
In the pot? The fire in the pot?
No. The water in the pot. The pot on the fire.
The pasta in the water?
Yes, in the water.
And the salt in the fire?
No. The salt in the water.
And the water on the fire?
No. The water in the pot and the pot on the fire. Not the water on the fire. For then the fire will die and dying be dead.
Nor will the water boil and the pasta will drain dry and not cooked and hard to the teeth.
The salt falls nor does it cease to fall.
The water boils. So be it.
Cease from placing your hand in the boiling water. Place your hand in the boiling water and it will cause you pain.
Much pain?
Very much pain.
In the pot the bubbles bubble up and bubble some more. The bubbles are bubbly. Never more bubbly bubbles bubbling bubbliest. And having bubbled the bubbles still bubbly.
Or bubblier?
Or bubblier.
Across the kitchen a board intended for chopping. Here. Take it. Chop.
What will I chop? There are no ingredients to chop.
Just chop. Don’t cease from chopping. To chop is to become a man.
After 10 minutes. The pasta stiff and dry and upright no more. The pasta lank and wet and soft. In the eternal damp of water.
Pour water free like some ancient anointing. The pasta left alone in the pot. Alone and naked.
The salt? Where’s the salt?
The salt is gone. Lost to the water and gone forever.
I grieve for the salt.
It is the salt for which I grieve.
Tip the pasta out.
The pasta?
Yes. Tip it out. Onto.
A plate?
Yes. And stop.
Finishing your sentences?
Yes.
Why?
Because it’s so.
Irritating?
Nothing in your memory anywhere of anything so good. Now the pasta is eaten. Disappeared. The pasta disappeared as everything disappeared. As the comma disappears and the semicolon disappears and the inverted comma disappears and the apostrophe disappears and the adjectives and the pronouns all disappear.
Leaving just full stops and And.
And And?
And And.
And And. -
scene was truly horrifying. One way they could have kept it in was to not actually show anything but maybe use dialogue as in the boy sees something and the dad tells him what it is.
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...To die. Alone. In the rain. Not that it matters.
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...and you're a miserablist Talkbacker. ;-)
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so here it is
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really funny Asimov. I read the whole thing. I'll never eat sapghetti aagain, and I know for sure I'll never read The Road. Jeez-us
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the year is almost over and I can only think of a handful of films I have to see before the year sheds its mortal coil. The Road is most definitely one of those films.
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...Alone? Yes alone? In the. Rain? Yes. In the rain. Alone? Yes alone. Not. That it matters? Not that it matters. Wait. Wait? Which one. Of us is talking? Talking? Yes. Yes? Yes talking. I've lost track? Lost track? Yes. Of this. Conversation? Conversation. Not that it matters. Not. Matters? Matters. Not matters. Not? Yes not. Not.
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Oct 20, 2009 8:26:06 PM CDT
And now, the ultimate nerd question about all this...
by asimovdiedofaids
Do The Road and No Country For Old Men exist in at different times in the same fictional universe? Because if they do share cross continuity. wouldn't it be cool if Anton Chigurh showed up to try and hunt down The Man and The Boy! You just KNOW no apocalyptic holocaust is gonna take him out!
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"It is neither happy nor fun, and is a rather heavy, brooding, somber affair.."
So Where the Wild Things Are with Viggo playing Max?
Zing. -
FYI (saw it on IMDB this afternoon ...)
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Had a hard on for Carriers - it's a global, pandemic, apocalypse, EotW type flick. According to him it's outstanding, though apparently pretty low budget with like zero-to-no distribution.
Chris Meloni is supposed to be amazing. -
slone13, i too had to break out the ol' Websters to find out what one was...sadly, now we know.
and criticalbliss, glad to see you back on a Road talkback, bitching and complaining about the book again.OK? OK. -
That was just one of many gut-punching images, but it would have been a useful scene to slam the point home that the Father's loyalty to his Son is getting more special as the rest of society plunges. It's one thing to eat other people, but to eat your own kid? We're talking degrees of atrocity, sure, but I think it would have upped the ante to have the Bay-B-Q.
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in Zach Snyder's remake brought me to tears....but I was holding my newborn at the time.
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featuring babies and small children in RAMBO was messed up......but effective.
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in Trainspotters was a treat.
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with his brains all over the wall in Funny Games sucked
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getting shot in the corn(?) fields in High Tension blew ass
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much of a fan when it comes to killing kids.....how about you.....hhmmmm.
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but this looks great, anything approaching a really realistic depiction of this im into, like micheal haneke's "time of the wolf"
that was brutal.
ive been reading about 2012 and other end of the world stuff and it looks like the elites that control the planet really want the populace to be freaked right now but all thats coming is a transition, i found out a ton of stuff about all this here
http://tinyurl.com/n2qcum
either way this movie looks cool as hell and im glad to see the trailer is misleading with its bombastic badly scored mish mash.
high hopes for this... -
I'm sorry but....I FAIL to see the point of this film.
Its about as poignant as a pimple on my ass....roAD wARRIOR mEETS War of the Worlds atmopshere...oh my aching balls. -
Seriously....Everybody on the planet suffers....Aint no big surprise...
Certainly doesnt warrant an OSCAR in my opinion....WHy give an award to someone who suffers? Because they successully captured it on film?
you shouldnt get an award for doing something thats automatic and thats general...even if you're "faking it".
What are we trying to tell ourselves here>
Suffer so you can use it to better yourself?
Do you realize how many people in this world suffer and DO NOT "better" themselves? More than you can count...
Suffering is Humanity's god given lot in life..... -
Fuck. FUck you? Oh yes. Not with a shoe. Not with a fist. Just stick your middle finger up - like THIS.
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I can already picture the black dude from lost screaming after his kid. Walt! Waaaaaaaalt!
2hours of Viggo screaming after his kid? I think so. -
I hope it's better than the book
by criticalbliss Oct 20th, 2009
06:14:59 PM
Which was, let's be honest, pointless, didactic, redundant and plain boring as fuck. It's been done, folks--and better.
I dreamed about a penguin, the boy said
I know.
The world was grey. Dust and ash was everywhere. God. God. I hate you, God.
They ate a baby, Dad.
I know.
We are the fire.
Sure, kid. I know.
Dust and ash was everywhere.
THE END (fuck, thank God THAT'S over...)
... You suck. That's about it. -
Suffering is not the point of the book or the movie. You have failed. Miserably.
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The closer to the book this film is, the better. Cannot wait!
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Oct 21, 2009 12:02:06 AM CDT
For a bunch of guys who complain about how movies are too formul
by continentalop
I am stunned at your criticism for the Road. "Who needs to see suffering." "What is the point of it if everyone dies." etc, etc.
The point Doom Master, that while Suffering is Humanity;s God given lot in life, it isn't always depicted in movies, especially in Western movies. The fact is at anytime something might happen that will throw us for a loop and take away that security we so blindly believe will always be with us.
Showing humanity at it's worst shows us at our most naked. It is easy to be civil and nice and optimistic when we have everything going our way, but take away all that and how do we react? We turn on each other, and our willing to do horrible things just in the name of survival. Only the Man and the Boy manage to keep any humanity, and that is the point of the story.
How to keep your humanity even when no one else is, and when it seems to be no hope for humanity. -
Exactly. I just finished the book - damn that was a hard read, but it was so great. I'm really interested in McCarthy's next book because based on his past two novels, it looks like he's moved from expressing his views about humanity in a predominately 'western' setting (excluding Suttree and a few others) to other formats - like 'pulp crime - No Country For Old Men' and 'sci-fi/apocalypse - The Road'. The think that's so cool about his books though is that he takes these conventional formats and COMPLETELY spins them on their head to take these genres in entirely new and extremely deep directions.
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dammit Harry, invest in an editing functionality for the boards - how many times do we have to ask for it?
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Don't get me twisted, I love gore and westerns but the shit was so heavy handed. Hillcoat is no Coen Brothers. He doesn't have the witt and subtlety to deal with McCarthy. Stick to Nick Cave, motherfucker.
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His dialogue, his characters, his plotting, his theme(s) are all incredibly narrow. The Road was merely a miserablist one-trick (and easily mimicked) literary exercise, a goddamned stick in the eye to the many more imaginative (and far superior) SF dystopian novels that exist. People like McCarthy because he makes them "feel" smart by throwing out a few ten dollar words within the repetitive bullshit prose, and because most academic mongoloids truly believe that life is pointless and that nothing matters; though if people acted like they insist on the whole, no one would be left. And my God, if I hear Cormac throw in mendicant out of context one more fucking time I'll go and NCfOM air gun the fuck myself.
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His rants, his ravings, his criticism(s) are all very narrow and short-sighted. His criticisms of the Road are all one-note, because he is making a defense to books he wants people to see as more imaginative and wishing to see more success, without accepting the fact other people might have different opinions. He likes to criticize McCarthy because he don't understand him, and because others like him it makes him "feel" insecure about his own taste; better to attack something than acknowledge not everyone is going to agree with you or that you might not understand something. He also likes to stick with one aspect of his books, because they don't fit his narrow viewpoint of how art should be depicted - if someone doesn't agree with his opinion it must be wrong. And my God, if I hear one more rant from criticalbliss about Cormac instead of moving on now that he has said his piece a-hundred-times, I will begin to think he is AsimovLives and can't stop obsessing over something.
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Hence his belief that McCarthy is a "genius" and that The Road is "seminal" when it's not.
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I criticize McCarthy because he DOES have talent. He's just lazy and misanthropic, an act that gets older with each "novel" he writes.
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Oct 21, 2009 3:39:45 AM CDT
If you think The Road is miserablist, you didnt get it
by industrykiller!
Sorry to throw that one out there but the shoe fits. The book is about how nothing, NOTHING, matters more or is stronger than one's innate love for their children. And how that love conquers and clears even the blackest of hells in the gravest of circumstances and pushes the human soul beyond it's limits. There is more hope in that novel than just about anything I've ever read.
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I'd love to say you're right, but that's your interpretation of the novel. What's there is so minimalist that different interpretations occur; however, judging just by the text and the episodic nature of the plot, it's simply NOT a hopeful novel. The film, which will be condensed to imagery, will likely reveal this. Yes, we will empathize, but The Road IS an exercise in misery--because people are just jackals and no one is as "intelligent" as Cormac (or, apparently, his fans). That you feel otherwise says more about you than about the book (though what it says about you, I feel, is very positive).
Carry on. -
Instead of ranting and raving EVERY time some one brings up Cormac McCarthy or the Road. You are seriously entering the obsessive category.
And yes, I think he is a genius. I don't think The Road is "seminal", I think it is a good yarn. And because of that fact, I think it is something that can be adapted into a movie (unlike Blood Meridian).
As for being "misanthropic", that being a negative is completely a subjective viewpoint, You want optimism, go see almost every damn movie out there. There is plenty of optimism. Nice to see pessimism once in awhile (and personally, I don't see the Road as being pessimistic). -
...to have value. My problem is that it really doesn't have much to say. It reads like a litany without the requisite character arcs and thematic weight that great books bring to the table.
Well, I'll say no more. I love the genre and hope the film transcends the source material. And I hope that people who love the book still do and enjoy the film. Later. -
Just saying....
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Disagree about the need for character arcs. Character arcs is the common mistake in movies and books - the idea that characters have to grow and change.
No. What they need is character REVELATION. That their true character is revealed. Michael Corleone doesn't really change in Godfather I, as much as he reveals who he really is over the course of the movie - he is truly Vito's son, as much as he didn't want to admit it. Same with Humphrey Bogart in The Maltese Falcon - he never changes, but we do learn that he has a code he won't break, no matter what. We see who they really are over the course of the movies and books.
In that sense, The Road succeeded for me because they didn't not change. The Man reveals he is still hopeful for his son, that he he still loves him and wants him to survive. DESPITE how horrific the future looks, he hopes he can carry on. That is what happens when we peel back the layer of his character - that in the end all that matters is his son. Always.
Simple, yet powerful IMO. -
But what fucking credentials do you have to criticize anyone else's taste here? Sorry, but until you can prove to me you are the infallible arbitrator of taste, I think you should be a little more accepting of other people's opinions.
And yep, I do think he is a genius. The fact that you say otherwise doesn't sway me...if anything, it probably confirms my opinion even more. -
And I don't care about your confirmation of anything.
The genius label bothers me with McCarthy simply because he's a lazy writer and because his vision is myopic at best. I don't have a problem with YOU feeling otherwise, but I do take issue with the literary establishment foisting this guy on unsuspecting (and uninformed) readers. The Road is a middling novel in its genre; the only difference is that a "name" and favored literary son, Cormac, has tackled the survival horror (or SF) field greater writers pioneered.
Your character comment is noted, however, the truth is that an arc also covers the revelation of someone's true nature, which, I agree, is a truer test for narrative drive and focus. However, I'd argue that Cormac's characters are more apples than onions. -
did you catch The Plan? Baltar totally gave you a shout out dude - he says "No more Mr Nice Gaius!"
anyway, like other ppl have already said, I hardly think the baby on a spit was "the centrepiece" of the book - that would be more like the mansion, which again has already been mentioned by a few...
at the risk of harping on this thing which has possibly been discussed to death, I didn't really think the cannibalism in the book was much of a big deal - not even the baby. I was reminded how other animals (carnivores, of course) tend to target the young when they hunt for various reasons, including the simple fact they tend to be easy to kill. In fact, I think I saw a doco one time where the female lions in a pride would make sure nobody knew who the father of their cubs were - because if her mate figured out the cub wasn't his, he would kill it and eat it - but if there was a chance it could be his, then he wouldn't touch it...
anyway, my only problem with The Road was with the ending, but I'm not gonna spoil it for those who haven't read it - I just thought there was a flaw in the logic there and that's all I'm gonna say about it -
You said "The Road is a middling novel in its genre"...
Give us an example of what you think is an excellent example of the genre. -
This was a great film, one of the year's best. I reviewed it at www.thefilmblogger.com.
Sent my review to Harry but for some reason he didn't use it :( -
only reason pple enjoyed the book was because of that scene. other than that it was boring and shitty pretentious artsy turd crap. the writer wrote this one to see if he can write a story about nothing. its like some kind of bullshit poetry formed into a story just for the heck of it. half way through it i wished the boy would get eaten by his dad.
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i tore it apart to symbolize my hate for that piece of crap. then i got that dude from Fahrenheit 451 to burn it for me.
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Again, totally misunderstood concepts with this review.
#1 because Im basing my opinion on the above review...and after having seen post apocalyptic movies it's very clear to me what the message is:
Humanity survives.
I dont know whos ruling system decided on what constitues humanity (the American majority probably), but humanity IS thieving and killing and destruction. Not the other way around. The other way around is the BS being fed to us to keep the economy rolling and to not rock the boat....
Havent you all seen this movie before? And realisticaly speaking, do you really believe that lone survivors in an apocalytpic world of chaos could very well maintain this "humanity"?
Of course not. By that point all the rules are out the window and its every man for himself in a war for survival based on their fading American pursuits of happiness and freedom....
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Oct 21, 2009 7:42:45 AM CDT
THE TEABAGGER MARCH LOOKED LIKE A CANNIBAL CONVENTION
by bringingsexyback
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Hmm - not sure about the 'cannibal rapist' hypothesis. There have been many, many disasters through mankind's history. Earthquakes, floods, droughts, wars, etc. I expect survivors of these things do some fairly desperate stuff just to live another day but I don't recall ever hearing about starving ethiopians eating their own babies, flooded phillipino farmers murdering one another, or blitzed out Brits losing all sense of community in their ruined city. Sometimes it seems quite the contrary is true, no?
Granted, when the population has such open access to firearms, as we saw in New Orleans then that can escalate bad things. But I like to believe that people can come together in a crisis - ultimately survival in a group is surely easier than survival solo?
ps. If i'm wrong about this then I call first orders on eating Salma Hayek. -
So I have high hopes for this, especially with Viggo in it. There's a great interview with him in Men's Journal about the movie and his life in general and it's great. Check it out.
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ribs
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criticalbliss, you obviously didn't understand the book, and it's likely that you don't know what "misanthropic" actually means. To attempt to argue that The Road being about a man's undying love for his son is just one person's "interpretation" is completely ridiculous. You didn't even catch the main theme of the book? You're pretty dense.
Continentalop and IndustryKiller! have totally served you.
Good luck with all your ridiculous rules that somehow make Mad Max "deeper" and more "thematic" than The Road. You're obviously some kind of moron. -
. . . a giant squid.
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Quote: "...and after having seen post apocalyptic movies it's very clear to me what the message is: Humanity survives."Again, that's not the message of THE ROAD. In fact, if you read the book, the question of whether humanity will survive is pretty much voided by the closing paragraph. It's over and there ain't no going back. Even still, beyond all reasoning, hope remains.
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Hey there! No, I haven't seen THE PLAN yet. As my fellow BSG fans know, my screenname comes from that line which was originally given during the first season. So, it's pretty cool that "No more Mr. Nice Gaius!" made it into THE PLAN, too.Thanks for the heads-up!
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THE ROAD isn't a bad book, just an overrated one. It's by-the-numbers post-apocalyptic horror for people who think they're too smart to read genre lit. (Michael Chabon has a good essay about this in MAPS AND LEGENDS.) But, give him credit -- McCarthy knows a lot of synonyms for "ash."
At the risk of getting flayed around here, I'll cop to being not much of a Cormac McCarthy fan across the board. I thought BLOOD MERIDIAN was way over the top and pretty terrible. I preferred NO COUNTRY and THE CROSSING, partly because their reach didn't exceed their grasp as much. But they still all basically read like genre exercises for lit-snobs and nihilists. Kinda like Autobahn. -
Oct 21, 2009 10:06:24 AM CDT
So, is it because McCarthy has infringed upon a certain genre...
by mr. nice gaius
...that folks such as you and criticalbliss have such a problem with the book's praise, Mostholy?
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I wouldn't say I have "such" a problem with it -- Don't really think much about it one way or the other, tbh. And better THE ROAD get mad props than, say, EAT, PRAY, LOVE.
That being said, since we're conversing about the book, my opinion was THE ROAD was...well, ok. Readable, but also middling and redundant, and not very interesting if you're already inclined to take other post-apocalyptic lit seriously. (As I'm sure most people here, being of the fanboy persuasion, do.) But, of course, your mileage may vary.
To try to make a movie analogy, it'd be like if (500) DAYS OF SUMMER were being called "groundbreaking" all the time by folks who'd never heard of ANNIE HALL. I liked (500) DAYS OF SUMMER, I thought it was a pretty solid movie, and I'm glad to see it get some love. But I also thought it was watered down ANNIE HALL, so pay credit where it's due.
I didn't see much in THE ROAD that hadn't already been done in stuff over and over again in post-apocalyptic lit, going all the way back to A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ, ON THE BEACH, or ALAS, BABYLON. It was the same-old, same-old, given an arty-depressing McCarthy gloss, and his voice doesn't speak to me.
I am looking forward to the movie, tho. I thought THE PROPOSITION was the hotness. -
Outstanding, heartbreaking film, Viggo is the best hobo ever, but the kid and Viggo really screwed up the death scene. Totally lost my connection to the film right there. And as I looked down the aisle one of the Weinsteins was sitting there looking mighty uncomfortable.
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That's the REAL question!
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I would! I'd cover myself with mustard and relish. I would be so delicious! But, hey! Would you eat yourself?! It's a simple yes or no question. Even a baby could answer it.
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Just because a book is written in a minimalist style, doesn't mean that it is boring and pointless. I'll bet you REALLY hated Hemingway. The book was a masterpiece, though he could never top Blood Meridian.
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I got the book long before it had that fucking Oprah sticker on it (been a fan of the author for years) but I will never stop being amused by how horrified prim housewives must have been at the baby and cellar scenes.
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I agree with you there. All this criticism towards McCarthy's style is reminiscent of the criticism you would read about that was directed towards Hemingway. Even the "McCarthy describing a breakfast" is the same as "Hemingway describing a breakfast" joke.
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Oct 21, 2009 1:24:48 PM CDT
And for the record, I don't care if people don't like the book..
by continentalop
...or McCarthy's work. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and taste is completely subjective.
However, I do take issue with comments such as "People like McCarthy because he makes them "feel" smart by throwing out a few ten dollar words within the repetitive bullshit prose," and "but I do take issue with the literary establishment foisting this guy on unsuspecting (and uninformed) readers."
Both of those just smack of hubris and conceit, and are condescending as hell towards anyone who reads the book and enjoyed it. Once again I ask what credentials does criticalbliss have that entitles him as the public censor and the final judge on what is good? His rants seem more like the elitist attitude than the academics he rails against. -
Except about GI Joe. That's prolly my 3rd or 4th fave movie this year. It was brilliant. Bash away fellas.
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the text is very clear that the man and boy come upon a plantation and enter the main house wherein they find the locked basement. the location is symbolic because it was once used to hold people captive and so...
the baby scene is essential to the story because it is the simplest way to illustrate how far down mankind has fallen. people have been documented committing cannibalism this year, let alone in the last hundred years. people in a community, a society can be forced to that rather quickly. it's not that far away from anyone. but eating one's own child tells us that there is no future here. there's no point in having children you cannot feed, no point in struggling to raise them only to risk them being eaten or enslaved by others - all while you starve. the boy was born at the beginning of the cataclysm when there was still a world order and the point of life was to pass it on the next generation. the baby, by contrast, was born so far after the destruction, that it's presence is nothing but a burden. that the woman survived the birth is a miracle in itself. starving as they are she couldn't even have had milk to feed it.
it's teh counterpoint to the man's devotion to the boy. you see how extraordinary it is that he can still have hope for his son's future when there is nothing left but scraps.
Cobra-Kai's assessment is flawed in that it doesn't account fot the fact that every disaster he names are incidents in a world that could send aid. it isn't total, global devastation. "the road" takes place in a ruined biosphere. no sunlight > no plants > no herbivores > no carnivores > no omnivores. it's not about electricity it's about the food chain being wiped out from the bottom up, falling like dominoes. -
Exactly. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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Understood. But I think the idea that the story of THE ROAD belongs solely in the category of "post-apocalyptic lit" is a bit misleading. While the setting is appropriate, I don't think that's the kind of book McCarthy focused on writing...and it's likely that it's not the type of book McCarthy fans usually expect from him (despite the writing style, gloom, depravity, etc.). In fact, it probably contains the most loving story and the most clearly realized relationship McCarthy has ever conceived. (I'm sure there are those who may disagree with me on this.)To me, the book is not so much a conventional novel as it is a parable. At times, it even reads like one. It is a story told through the use of archetypes. Essentially, every character in the book is an archetype. This is what makes the relationship between the father and son so compelling to the reader as it allows them to "inhabit" the story...Anyway, I could go on and on. And yes, THE PROPOSITION was pretty darn good.
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Dude loves to describe horrible, agonizing, unimaginable deaths. Is it just me, or is that a bit concerning? By the time I finished Blood Meridian, I almost felt as if C-Mac were rubbing my nose in it--as if saying, "I am strong because I don't shy away from writing about the worst of mankind. If you find this revolting, you are weak and have your head in the sand." I don't know, I just find it a bit weird that someone would care to sit in front of a computer, sip coffee, maybe munch on a johnny cake, and think, "What would boiled brains look like?"
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I agree. Regarding criticalbliss, I've tangled with him before over THE ROAD/McCarthy. Apparently, he conducts online literature review groups (or something to that effect) and, therefore, believes that he has better insight into the critical analysis of McCarthy's work.Yet from what I've gathered, all his complaints are subjective and seemingly amount to lamenting over other authors who haven't received the same kind of acclaim and adoration as McCarthy.
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That is, a last name for his first name and last name as opposed to a married feminist chick with two hyphenated last names or a pussy guy married to a feminist chick (who wears the pants in the relationship) with the same.
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I can't say I loved it. But I couldn't put it down either. I couldn't recommend it to anyone because it was so powerfully depressing. It's really fascinating just how hopeless the situation is. belledame makes a good point. There is no longer any form of society in this book, or even some notion of "mankind". There isn't even any "mankind" to reference at this point. Remember, they're walking across half a continent here. Can anyone who's the read the book more recently than I have post the number of other humans they even see in their journey?
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I mean, to resort to eating other people - what's the point in living anyway? Fugg it.
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Oh, you said Hari Kari not Harry Caray. But, hey! If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself?!
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impossible. they don't give total numbers, especially not large groups like the two road gangs and the naked larder
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Who wouldn't?
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...I need a snack.
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...do you prefer:
Carolina Style (vinegar heavy)
Mustard Based (tangy)
Southern Red (rich and sweet)
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He likes it! Hey Mikey!
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belledame, I hear what you're saying but I still dont believe that there's any apocalyptic scenario in which humans would 'outlive' rats.
RATS ARE FUCKING SURVIVALIST BADASSES!! THEY WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!!!! -
And yet I still don't like you!
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no cobra, roaches will inherit the earth b/c they eat things like glue and newsprint and cosmetics... rats would fall to competition for food plus being hunted by desperate people once the preferable game has run out.
the plantation house quote: "chattel slaves had once trod those boards bearing food and drink on silver trays."
also, i'm not sure there's no human society left. we see gangs of different sorts, the plantation house group and the mention of communes that cut off thieves' hands. the word catamites means a willing relationship. they may wear dog collars but those boys are willingly exchanging sex for protection or whatever. a base sort of prostitution as opposed to enforced sex slavery. -
belledame, don't make me start World War III just to prove you wrong. Cos i'll do it! My finger's on the big red button right now!
You'll have your apocalypse and you'll see. You and I will be the last two fuckers left on the planet, and right at the end i'll say 'look, there are some rats'.
And you'll say 'oh, yeah' and then we'll both die.
RATS WILL INHERIT THE EARTH!!!! -
was not eating babies
it was that the son represented the Future of mankind - and try as he might, the father could not truly impart his knowledge of the world as it used to be - which was largely irrelevant to the boy anyway...
usually the post-apocalyptic scenario is set a generation or two later, after the torch has been passed on - but THIS was more interesting because we were seeing the interaction of the last remnants of the Old world and those who would be creating the New one.
there would be no more cans of Coke, no more antibiotics - and the kid's almost superstitious fear of houses was interesting - the father kept wanting to check them out, clinging to what he knew (which sometimes did pay off) but the son did not have the same connection to them - in his world, they were to be avoided as far as humanly possible... -
seem to have their opinions based in a combination of arrogance and feelings of intellectual inferiority.
They're so upset at "academics" and "people who want to feel smart" etc. etc., and they're SO SURE that their ridiculous subjective opinions are the only REAL opinions that matter.
Pathetic, but I guess that's why they're haters. -
g'head, cobra, push that button. because roaches, unlike rats, are impervious to - completely unaffected by - radiation.
i'll give you your mutant rat survivors, but they'll be fighting for their lives against some hungry roaches. -
Just eat her raw. Then smoke a cigarette with her and do it again!
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Viggo Mortensen is one of my favorite actors
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Read "The World Without Us" by Alan Weisman. Feral housecats would make short work of the rats (who'd be deprived of their sewer homes without humans) and most roaches would freeze to death in the first winter...they're actually tropical insects, and rely on our houses for warmth.
On the other hand, Africa will be quickly overrun by elephants...no shit. -
This site had its resident Cormac apologist/sycophant. Stalker much? What I want to see on screen is the magical shopping cart which is capable of being pushed (while fully laden) through grass, forest, mud, and several feet of snow. That'd be one badass mofo of a cart. Could it be the one from Jackass 2? I also want to see the world where the math of cannibalism due to absolutely no other food at all works for more than a couple weeks. That'd be cool and could teach dem damn mathematicians a thing or two!
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Could the "air speed velocity of a swallow carrying a coconut" conundrum apply to the cart? Or maybe its actually a TARDIS and the robot controlled future keeps sending humans back in time to feed the current surviving population in order to then dominate that population in the future? Hey, none of this is any more retarded than the book, just say'n is all.
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belledame, are you a girl? Your name suggests so, but your in-depth knowledge of post-apocalyptic flora and fauna suggests otherwise.
ps.BurnHollywood don't you side with her on the 'rats' thing. We all know rats are the ultimate scavengers. If any species can survive they can. I repeat rats WILL inherit the earth!!
pps comfort_girl you're right, most shopping trolleys have trouble getting across the tarmac parking lot let alone anywhere else. -
because we know it's in our best interest to establish a female only population from the get-go. you guys worry about what to do while we quietly smite away. then all the women and children peaceably share resources as the new ice age approaches.
elephants can only swarm africa so long as the plant life survives. the fact is they'll starve and die in the early ranks. people and wildlife will fight over them for food and shortly there will be no elephants. then large predators and people will hunt eachother. once that's done, the surviving people will war over the remaining preserved goods. we're not talking about a world without people, we're talking about a world without a food chain.
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Is there room in your female-only utopia for a 'stud' male for breeding purposes? Cos that's a job i'd be interested in.
Either that or rat catcher. Cos there would be rats. Lots of em. -
some breeding stock is implicit. you, however, get to be the cook. given your rat obsession clearly you're the best candidate for fileting, fricasseeing, poaching, etc.
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For you baby I can be the cook and the cock. I'm a multi-tasker.
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the female utopia requires a clear division of labor. and frankly, breeding stock is pointless, because the world is over. we just like to hedge our bets.
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