Cool News
‘I Can’t Do It!! I Won’t!!’ Sunday Brings One Of The Year's Final Four MAD MEN!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
“So we finally have the answer to the question, ‘What makes Don Draper smile?’”
“I’m not really going to kill him!! I just would like to, that’s all!!”
“I need you two to be ready for me at a moment’s notice!!”
“I’m not going to let you force me to do anything anymore!!”
“I don’t want to ruin this!!”
“Let the chips fall where they may!!”
“That’s not a choice!!”
“I can’t do it!! I won’t!!”
A lot of criticism for Don Draper last week over his firing of poor, closeted Sal Romano. But as horrible as I think most of us felt for Sal, I couldn’t figure another way out. (And one does sense that, if he doesn’t kill himself first, Sal will thrive in new, gayer circumstances.)
Clearly Don’s continuing frustration with Sterling Cooper is fueling his reckless behavior away from the office. Will Conrad Hilton end up bankrolling A new Don Draper Agency? Given the number of key players who have left or seem ready to flee Sterling (not just Sal, Joan and Peggy, but also second-season departures like Duck Phillips and Freddy Rumson), I wouldn’t be shocked if death (or stroke) meets Bert Cooper and Don ends up leaving SC by season’s end – despite that three-year contract he just signed.
Sally’s sexy teacher is back this week, as is Lane Pryce’s African-hating wife.
Tonight and beyond:
3.10 "The Color Blue"
The firm celebrates a milestone. Peggy and Paul compete on an account.
3.11 "The Gypsy and the Hobo"
A former client returns; Betty goes on a trip with the kids; and Joan and Greg plan for their future.
3.12 "The Grown-Ups"
Don meets with a candidate; Peggy second guesses her taste in men; Pete makes a big decision.
3.13 "Shut the Door and Have a Seat"
Don has a meeting with Connie; Betty gets some advice; Pete talks to his clients.
10 p.m. Sunday. AMC.
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
Uncensored!! Unauthorized!!
Who Really Created The Simpsons??
And Why Does It Suck Now??
$9: All Hail The King, Baby!!
The firm celebrates a milestone. Peggy and Paul compete on an account.
A former client returns; Betty goes on a trip with the kids; and Joan and Greg plan for their future.
Don meets with a candidate; Peggy second guesses her taste in men; Pete makes a big decision.
Don has a meeting with Connie; Betty gets some advice; Pete talks to his clients.
Uncensored!! Unauthorized!!
Who Really Created The Simpsons??
And Why Does It Suck Now??
$9: All Hail The King, Baby!!
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I'm starting to think Maine exists only so Stephen King can write about it.
Also, John Hamm is magically delicious. -
Yes, Jon Hamm... mmm mmm good...
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Seeing as this thread is, without a doubt, the only sanctuary of sanity and actual conversation left on AICN in the average given week. Last weeks was especially wonderful. It usually doesn't really get started until after the episode, but still.
As for my hopes for this episode, I hope they find way to bring Roger more prominently back into the fold without pissing Don off too much. In some ways, even though I'll miss him, I hope Sal stays fired, because bringing him back could only be done through a series of "perfect world" events that I wouldn't like. In reality, in this time period, Sal would be gone for good. It's a shame, but its the truth. And Joan. Bring back Joan already. And show the schoolteacher naked. I know you can't AMC, but do it anyway. And Sal's wife. And Betty. Show them all naked together. -
Haha, didn't even realize, asking for all the female characters naked-ness doesn't exactly make for intelligent conversation. Oh well.
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Has anybody seen January Jones on the cover of GQ? Mamma Mia, whatta pasta. There were immediate claims of airbrushed enhancement, but GQ and the photographer have both gone on record as saying that it's all factory issue. I also watched a recent video interview with her at Interview magazine's website, and although considering the role she plays and how heavy MAD MEN is, she seemed suprisingly light and easygoing. Mortal.
In other words, if she were a coworker, I think I'd have a shot. Such is the depth of my hubris! -
http://tinyurl.com/n24r34
The GQ cover is ridiculously sexy, but something about this shot just slays me. She's the sexiest woman on tv by far. I hope that tiny url works, sometimes they fizz out. -
Is a nice looking piece but a bit boney for my tastes, I'm more of a Joan type. I'd still throw a hump in Betty though I'm not that particular.
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Those robustly angular northern European cheekbones, child-spewing hips and vaguely guilty, fish-wet eyes, all sowed up together in a package that looks like someone Chris Ware might have seen from a window sitting on a park bench feeding the pigeons and murmuring Hello, Dolly! lyrics and then furtively doodled on the back of jotter during English. With extra frump and barely contained neuroses.
Goodness gracious. I'm getting all flustered just thinking about it.<p -
And I'm not just some pathetic loser stuck home alone on a Sunday afternoon looking for his TB friends to entertain him. I'm stuck at a 12 hour rehearsal process for my Univerities upcoming production of Dracula that opens next week. And I have a LOT of downtime today. And I wish there was more discussion in here so I wouldn't be so bored. I'm on my laptop, listening to the Steeler game, wishing for more Mad Men discussion. Sorry, its just...its going to be a long, long day.
And anyway...Peggy? Seriously Flummage? I think we all had this discussion a few weeks ago. Some were arguing peggy was downright ugly, but I think the concensus was that she is just a plain old ordinary looking person you might meet any day of the week. Not ugly, but certainly not attractive in any way. I'm glad you find her so attractive though, to each their own. I'm just surprised, Peggy literally just does absolutely nothing for me. I think shes an incredible actress, truly, really incredible, and one of my favorite parts of the show, but get my blood pumping? Not a chance. -
looks much better in non 60's duds. In character she's a bit dowdy looking. Not sure why she just is.
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Maybe Peggy is supposed to be dowdy looking.
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but then I go back to thinking that Peggy is actually very smart very in tune to the changes coming on the wind and that almost every young girl doesn't want to look like thier mothers or Grandmaothers. I don't care what year it is that is nearly a universal constant, be it 2009, 1963 or 1663.I think the producers are doing Peggy's character a bit of diservice to hold her back like that.On the other hand, she is evolving slowely, and really the conversaton had to do with if the actress was hot or not.
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Will the teacher become a fatal attraction mistake? Will Don be able to handle Connie's demandingness and craziness? Is Peggy going to leave Sterling Cooper? What major arcs will come to a head near the end of this season?
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JFK's arc is going to come to an abrupt and permanent end by the season close. I just have a feeling that something really bad might happen to that guy...
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By "conservative", I'm speaking from a creative & marketing point-of-view. He's too hostile towards new ideas and different ways of doing things. He relies too much on his gut and his own aesthetic tastes. The advertising and marketing giants who came to prominence from the 1960s until today used psychological and sociological research and statistics to guide their creative. Grey, to pick a convenient example, started as a direct-mail company. Direct-mail relies on targeting your audience with surgical precision.
I could see Pete try to launch a start-up, if he wasn't such a coward. But Don's too old-school. When his star falls, it'll fall hard. -
I think the show will probably end with him and Betty divorced (we're up to what, 55% divorced rate today)and with Don a rich, lonely old bastard, probably a bit like Roger, but more okay with being alone. He'll probably run away, start over somewhere else, when Betty leaves him. Don Draper is one fucked up cat.
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...is heavily skewed due to the very high divorce rate amongst baby boomers (a cohort which does not include Don and Betty, but does include their children).
Amongst demographic groups older than the boomers AND demographic groups younger than the boomers, rates are much lower.
The boomers skew most demographic statistics due thanks to their large numbers and that particularly tumultuous decades in which they came of age.
I say Don and Betty will stay together, but Sally's gonna be a smack-whore in Los Angeles once she turns 18. heh heh heh -
All the "conventionally pretty" girls on the show are written as being pretty stuck-up.
Peggy'll walk into a bar and fuck a stranger.
The other girls may fuck, but only as a means to getting something in return (wedding ring, a better job, whatever, no big whoop). They're all looking to ensnare "the big one".
Peggy's just looking to get laid. Alfred Kinsey would have her on speed-dial if speed-dial had been invented in 1963. -
I think she will end up sacrificing any and all social life, family life, true "happiness" for her chance to be a seriously powerful and successful woman in business. Peggy, in some ways, wants to be the Don Draper of women, and I also think she is a little bit fucked in her head the same way Don is, and would relish the chance to run away from things and change her name and re-invent herself the way Don did. I think some extremely interesting parallels and comparisons will be made between Don and Peggy by the time this show runs its course. Just thinking about that scene where she got high and told her secretary how she was going to experience all the things she wants for her...gives me the chills.
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Oct 18, 2009 3:57:12 PM CDT
I have doubts that Peggy will be a business success....
by royston lodge
She's a graduate of a secretarial school and she's from a working-class upbringing. While she had shown the DESIRE to become a bigwig, she hasn't shown that she has a plan on how to get there. She was promoted because she has a talent for copywriting that the firm can exploit, but where does she go from there?
If she had walked in to Sterling Cooper with a university degree and a detailed plan for taking over the joint within 10 years, then I'd believe that her story-arc will include great success in business.
Rather, I see her story-arc over the long term being about her getting passed-over for promotion in favour of male douchebags over and over again, with her eventually become the cliche of the bitter old woman who has worked for the firm for decades but has no real power. -
I agree completely about Peggy's fate. Part of the reason for that is because over the 3 seasons, they've hinted so heavily about Peggy being/becoming successful, that it would feel almost cliche for her to be a bigwig at this point. Then again, I'm the same person who didn't think Don would sleep with the teacher because it was really built up, so what do I know?
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Copywriters do not become corporate bigwigs. Copywriters are employees, not managers-in-training. She would have to switch to Accounts if she wanted that kind of career track, but if you can't be an Accounts man with only one foot, how far could Peggy possibly get without a penis? Is Peggy really going to get clients drunk and pay for their hookers?
Mad Men isn't 9-to-5, and Peggy isn't Jane Fonda or Dolly Parton. The show isn't about the triumph of the "little guy sticking it to the man".
Of course, my predictions are based on Peggy NOT jumping ship to a more forward-thinking firm. But even then, I do not see Peggy succeeding if she has to compete with the massive wave of hungry, young college graduates who are about to hit Madison Avenue in the late 60s and early 70s. They weren't all hippies in 1969, after all. Most were just as hungry for wealth and success as anybody.
Peggy'll be a dinosaur by then. -
Crow - Yeah, seriously.
Mostly, anyway.
As Xiphon says, the actress who portrays her, Elisabeth Moss, has some kind of kookily alluring mojo (wojo?) going on as well, and so is noticeably more attractive and immediately engaging than her fictional counterpart... but, yes. She draws me in. Miss Moss, and Peggy. Both to me are considerably attractive, (along with a handfulls of the females of the show) if in different ways.
But I digress, talking purely in terms of who's hawt or nawt, in regards to Mad Men, makes me feel all lazy in my consumer ponderin'. So I'm off to think of something all smart to copypaste for that after viewing glow, that only Mad Men seems to offer.
I hopes them mens is all, like, still mad, yo. -
I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Peggy will "fail"... but I don't think she'll be at Sterling Cooper if she succeeds. Peggy knows they as a company don't have loyalty to her (she might believe that Don does, but the viewer knows otherwise), and if there's one thing that Duck will show her, other than that tongue thing, it's that in the Ad business, there are always other options.
Pete, on the otherhand, is seen as progressive, when alone, but his other problem isn't so much as he's a coward, but not a leader or battle tested... one of the themes I thought they'd approach (and still might) is how WWII made Sterling and Cooper who they were, and certainly Korea made Don Draper who he is, but that lack of War or Military or whatever is why Pete will be what he is. -
I've always struggled to see how the 70s could be anything but a bitter, regret-filled grind for Don, so I wouldn't in good conscience hold out on a happy next decade for Peggy - or for many of the Sterling Cooper gang, in truth.
New York in the seventies was an intense, intoxicating, culturally-expanding metropolis, but it was radically different from the decade that preceded it.
Don, for example, is going to spend (taking for granted that he would be alive, still there, and with both feet not have being ridden over by a tractor) his middle-age in a city that he will barely recognize, filled with people who've lived lives he's only brushed upon (no matter how sincere the condescensions) and in an industry, as somebody above says, that is flowering and straining to find its boundaries and limits.
In the long run, I don't forsee Don's (or most of the main cast's) progression, or redemption (if that's what we're talking about in a round about way) , necessarily coming through Sterling Cooper. Practically or thematically.
But, then again, maybe that's just my inner-commie coming to the fore. -
She, like Pete, has her "finger" on the pulse of the nation for lack of a better word. This is important for an industry like advertising.I think since Peggy is in advertising and not in a super button downed corporate culture like IBM for instance, creativity and an understanding of how markets will be changing could catapult her to a higher level then her peers.Rob in WI hit on a theme I used to hammer often during the first season, the issue of military service, all the older guys were formed in the crucible of combat; while all the younger spuds are rather vacuous for the most part and have had an extended adolescence due to attending college. Its a dichotomy that can't be overlooked or mentioned enough.
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"I think Peggy might be a success" Damn enter button and proof reading kicked my ass again.
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I wonder if they won't explore the decisions the younger guys will have regarding Vietnam... I'm not sure about Pete's age at this point, but I would think he'll have a decision about his beliefs in the war effort, his draft status, etc.
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best line of last week
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..Don's muttering of "you people"...mmmmmmmmm Haaaaaammmm
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If I remember correctly, married guys were far down the list to get drafted. So, as it stands right now, only Kinsey, Cosgrove and that squirrly kid they hired along with the gay foreign dude have the potential to get drafted but even they would probably get defered. Now Pete on the other hand, I could envision a situation where he might consider becoming an officer out of some sort of family obligation or sense of duty that pete seems to have.I agree though that as the seasons progress Vietnam will become more of an issue and it has the potential to be an interesting idea to explore.
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In just a few minutes. Too bad I can't watch it live. Since I'm still stuck at fucking rehearsal. Since 11 this morning. For multiple hours to come. Thank heavens for DVR. Enjoy everyone
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Here is where it gets really interesting.
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Shit. Meet Fan.
This gonna be good, yo. -
Kinda like the ultimate screw you to Sterling Cooper, if his company buys them out. That would be awesome. Also everyone is starting to hate Don which if Duck buys them out will be interesting.
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That death stare was brutal can't wait to see the payoff and the end music actually seems to really fit the scene this time.
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Wasn't expecting them to pay off the locked drawer so early... I doubt if Duck's company has the capital to buy Sterling Cooper, but I wonder if Lane Pryce can't put together a group to do it. You can see that he's enamored with the "American Ideal" ("not once has anyone asked me where I went to school..." may have been my favorite quote of the episode).
Did we suddenly see the cracks in a Nuclear Family, in an age where that was far more... taboo?... than it is now? And is anyone in that office genuinely happy with there life at the moment? -
The British Lackey the only one who seems happy. Also the gay European or quite possibly Ken Cosgrove.
Just realized Pete wasn't in this episode. -
Oct 18, 2009 10:12:53 PM CDT
Don is slipping! Pretty soon everybody gonna see him
by hollywoodhellraiser
and the teacher!And it look like that locked box was finally open! Felt like aTony Soprano with all that cash in there! LOLI dunno what Betty gonna do but I can't wait to find out!
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Yeah... Cosgrove is probably happy. I don't know if the Lackey is happy or not... he seems to want to be more than he is, if not ambitious.
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No matter how hard the critics tried to cram it down my throat. Just gimme my 'Breaking Bad' back and we'll call it a day.
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the lackey isn't happy. It seemed like even though him and Joan were fighting he really liked her and with her gone he really has no one, but his boss. Sure there are the other secretaries, but they weren't on the same level as Joan.
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No matter how hard the critics tried to cram it down my throat. Just gimme my Mad Men and we'll call it a day.
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... and start calling him "Moneypenny." ;-)
And not for nothing, but MAN MEN and BREAKING BAD both rock. Why choose? -
from henceforth he lackey will be called Moneypenny. But back to the show what did everyone think of tonight's episode?
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Roger Sterling or Don Draper? Mmmmmmmmm.....
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Can anyone guesstimate the date for this episode? We know or don't we that the finale is going to be JFK's assasination, right?
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you should write for Leno.
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It was before Halloween because Bobby asked when Halloween was. So my guess is in maybe mid october or late september.
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Oct 18, 2009 10:55:06 PM CDT
Only a woman who gets everything handed to her would ignore stac
by sydbarretsmydad
.....that grin on her face when the key turned.....priceless. Who knew the key to a can of worms would be bangin around a dryer.
P.S.....clearly they are trying to turn us against Don.....but they didnt really succeed until he got up to give his speach. His greasy grin....ugh. Let the downfall begin. -
Oct 18, 2009 10:55:42 PM CDT
that was supposed to be stacks of fifty dollar bills
by sydbarretsmydad
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That scene in the office... I can't decide if Kinsey's jealous, if he has a realization that he'll never understand Don like Peggy does... they think the same way. Loved that scene watching it a second time.
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that the teacher's brother was the guy who robbed Don earlier this season?
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I stated in the previous TB that I'm just not feeling this season. And now it looks like the slow moving and relatively pointless plots are simply setting up something interesting.
The upcoming sale of the company and don being stuck in a contract should make things much more interesting. I could care less about the drapers affairs until they divorce or Betty tells Don that someone else may be the dad of the youngest one. -
that one of the strongest episodes ever. Such class. And that final scene was incredible. Just the idea of Don standing in the light, with all those eyes on him, so public, so out there, made me really, REALLY uncomfortable. Something about that whole scenario was just off. Gave me chills. Incredible television. Sometimes I can't believe how impeccable the acting is on this show, from our "hero" Don all the way down to a lowly janitor named Achilles. They are all fucking amazingly perfect.
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stereotypes!
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I don't care if it takes twenty years. That's what I want to see happen.
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We all knew the drawer reveal was coming, but when it did it happened so fast it took my breath away. Watching Betty's thought process waiting for Don to return to confront him a thousand thoughts went through my head. Was this her possible realization that this makes it okay for her to do whatever the fuck she wants or did she put things back in the drawer and make it appear she never found it because she realized confronting this man could make him abandon her and at the end of the day, he's a meal ticket and she doesn't want to be stuck raising his kids? As for Don, he's getting sloppy and he'll pay for it somehow. The teacher's brother reminded me a lot of Don's real brother who killed himself. I thought the actors looked similar and I don't think that was coincidence. As for the teacher, does anyone know her name? Is that on purpose? And who made the hang up call? My money's on the teacher. The show is brilliant and to anyone who calls this season slow moving, lay off the caffeine and the Michael Bay and appreciate the storytelling and the performances we're seeing. This is one of the best series to ever be on TV by a long shot.
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Why do people keep mentioning that Don could possibly not be the father of Baby Gene? The first scene of "Meditations In An Emergency" is Betty finding out she's pregnant at the doctors. She doesn't sleep with the guy at the bar till near the end of the episode. She was already pregnant when she did that. She clearly got pregnant from the night that she shared with Don at her father's house when he had a stroke.
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Oh wait, no I won't, child labor laws.
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was distractingly beautiful for me. You could see the fall colors in the background of the window, and the lighting and the art direction of all the visuals in that scene were beautiful.
This message has been brought to you by Appropos of Nothing. We now return to the regularly scheduled middle to low-brow analysis of the episode. -
The ending with Don accepting the award was uncomfortable. Betty was looking at him with completely new eyes, Roger Sterling had to suck it up and present the award to him, and the British owners could care less because they're selling him off. Don was almost naked in that scene. Brilliant episode.
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Okay, I've got nothing right now. Maybe if I ruminate for a while.
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Oct 19, 2009 3:43:17 AM CDT
This episode spanned several days in Aug/Sept. 1963
by bob loblaw law blog
Some key dates that set the scene:Aug. 28, 1963 - March on Washington where MLK gave "I Have a Dream Speech."Sept. 15, 1963 - 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, Ala., that killed four girls - http://bit.ly/4qiWPr Sept. 18, 1963 - Funeral for the four girls, where MLK gave his "life is hard as crucible steel" eulogy - http://bit.ly/355IUuAnybody else notice other establishing dates?
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And that Don wont be able to get out of it because he signed a contract.
Its so obvious that its probably not going to happen, although it would be great to watch.
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Are you sure you're not talking about the episode before this one? I remember all of those events happening in the fifth to last episode, not the fourth to last. MLK's speech was on the radio in the car and the nanny was listening to the church bombing reports. But that wasn't this episode, it was last. Or am I missing something?
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is clearly an episode behind the rest of us and doesn't know it. Maybe he watches on itunes or thru downloads?
Either way, was anyone else as freaked out as I was when the teacher goes "I don't care about your marriage, or your family, or your wokr or anything like that, as long as I know youre with me." That is some crazy talk, and I can not believe Don didn't dump her then and there, instead of encouraging her and getting deeper involved in that relationship. How can he handle the pressure of knowing she doesn't give a fuck about ruining his life? I hate it when girls say crazy things like that. And not only that, but she is Sally's fucking teacher, and she doesn't care, at all, about the damage she would do to Sally if they were found out? This woman is borderline psychotic. That isn't the only hint at it, she seems obsessive and creepy at times, right? I don't understand some of the women Don gets himself invovled in. He's going to get bored of this silly little girl, and she's going to tell Betty. This is headed nowhere good. -
Because people are trained by most television to seek out melodramatic plots filled with with over-used cliches (i.e. its someone else's baby!!), forgetting that all the while, even though MadMen can be a little soap-ish, most of its drama stems from the tensions created by the mundane.
hence the laughingly understated episode descriptions. They are actually pretty accurate, but if you know the characters and the context, you know there's a WHOLE LOT more going on... -
I'm getting sick of Don banging everything in sight. Leave that cute little teacher alone.
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She's insane.
And to the people who think the baby isn't Don's, someone stated it up above. She was pregnant before she banged the guy in the bar, it was established, you are just forgetting. The baby is Don's. Accept it. That would be too soap-opera anyway, imo. -
So, the cute, insane teacher.
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Calling moneypenny a toad was spot on for me, and it's deliciously delightful how ruthless the Brits are in this season. Is that where certain corporate American companies get their ethics from? Plus that final shot of Betty, bravura!
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Is there only 3 episodes left? It seems like it's only just started.
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Her name is Miss Farrell. Miss Susan Farrell. They have said it many times.
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is that his fast getaway cash? or is he gonnna leverage a buyout of Sterling-Cooper?
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I don't think that was enough cash to leverage a buyout of Sterling-Cooper. Although, maybe with that $5000 he just received...A random thought: was anyone else surprised when Roger said that his dad started the company? I might've missed it in an earlier episode, but I've been thinking the whole time that he was one of the founders.
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And his general attitude conveys a sense of entitlement to his job. I feel sorry for the Jared Harris character. Given the setup, I expect he'll either be fired, stuck in the U.S. or exiled to India.
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We learned more about Don Draper history in one throwaway line by Roger than we have in the past 3 seasons. It almost seems to me like the writers are subtley trying to tear down the great myth of Don Draper they built up in our minds over the last 2 years. Roger found him working in a fur factory, going to night school. Wow. I did not expect that. And he said with such superiority. I wonder if Roger wasn't just another one of Don's fantastic "chance encounters" with an extended conversation, and he impressed the shit out of Roger. Still, its so weird to think of Don as working in a factory as a nobody. Crazy. And yes, Roger did say that his father started the company with Burt, which both informs Roger's "playboy" attitude (grew up extremely privleged, was handed a successful business) but also is interesting because Roger has always taken such pride and displayed hubris over HIS name being on the wall, no mention of his father. Very interesting stuff. Why hasn't anyone brought this shit up? I almost forgot about it!
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But maybe not as crazy at seems, since in those times before the employee criterea for advertising had not been established, it was common to hire people on how much you liked them. I think you're correct in that it was probably a "Don chance encounter" and yes it that scene did make Roger seem somewhat of an elitist.
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that line that dondick said to betty just crushed me. it's the worst thing he could of said to her, and he didn't know it. that episode flew by. I'm enjoying how this season has been much lucid and to me personally, more adventourous in their storytelling. it's got to a point now where i could watch pete paint a wall for the 47mins and still love it.
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I think there was so much information going on in the show last night that the bit about Don's humble beginnings eluded some of us. We heard it, but when we did we were stuck on Betty and what she was thinking at that moment. So many layers in last night's episode. I tend to think this whole sale of Sterling Cooper could be Hilton's way of owning Don on paper. I'm not sure I see Duck flying in and becoming Don's boss. That seems too soap-ish to me. I don't think Don has the cash in the drawer to buy the agency. Lucky Strike was a 25 million dollar account. He doesn't have that kind of scratch yet. In fact, I thought the 5k signing bonus seemed low...You really don't know where this show is going to go. We could find out next week Don wants a divorce or Betty can hold on to the secret for the rest of the series and never tell Don what she knows. As for the teacher, she is definitely a little crazy and romantic and she fills the void for Don that Betty just doesn't. He seems to like to go for intelligent somewhat independent Brunette's, no? Betty is the trophy. He basically told her that last night. I never get a good read on Betty and I'm usually wrong trying to guess where she's going to go next as a character. I'm really excited to see what she does or doesn't do and what that ultimately says about women like her in that time period.
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Roger is privileged, but he knows that the name on the building is also his legacy. The privilege is gone if he doesn't do his part. His job isn't to bring in business, its to solve problems, smooth out client issues, and put out fires.
Its this somewhat fleeting job (which he's really good at FWIW) gets overlooked by the Brits (and whomever else buys SC, which is why he was more hurt than angry that his name was off the reorganized chart. Its too bad we haven't seen more of him this year, really. -
SNForrester, I think your dream may come true sooner than 20 years. I've stated before that this season seems to be about contrasts, and this weeks ep...Kinsey and Peggy. While Kinsey drinks scotch and masturbates (with the largest "catch rag" I've ever seen), Peggy transcribes her ideas. Kinsey berates his secretary for his mistake. Peggy politely excuses herself for burping in the dictaphone. And while pitching their non ideas to Don, Peggy "borrows" Kinsey's phrase and uses it as a seed for a campaign. Peggy seems to grasp the concept of creating and using emotion in campaigns (Don's specialty) better than the others. And Kinsey's dumbfounded expression seals the deal...he KNOWS that Peggy's got the goods, and very likely he'll be presenting his ideas to her. Am I the ony one who thought of FTD's Mercury Man when Kinsey had his "eureka" moment with Achilles? And I'm sure Peggy sleeping with Duck will figure into a future episode before this season is out. With all that transpired this episode, I hope it shuts up the "nothing happening this episode" people for good.
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is packing her bags next week...
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I actually missed last week's episode while I was out of town (damn hotels never seem to have AMC...) and watched them back-to-back last night. Hence my confusion... it was like watching a Mad Men TV movie for me last night.
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she just doesn't care if Betty and the kids are hurt. Why should she? They have nothing to do with her purely physical realtionship with Don. If they are hurt it's on him, not her.
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exie made me think of something. Every woman I can remember him sleeping around with has been a brunette (Midge, Rachel Menken, Joy, Bobbie Barret, now Miss Farrell). I wonder if this is some oedipus complex for Abigail Whitman - which would explain why he's not happy with his stunningly beautiful blonde trophy wife and possibly never tapped joan.
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She ran over a dude's foot with a lawnmower!
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It is shows like this that shows some of the finest in American TV. I haven't seen the episode yet, but I expect it to be as great as every other one has been. It has been a very strong season.
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I thought for sure she was a goner after the lawnmower incident.
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mad mens one of the few shows i take a interest in who has written the episode, and i think this was kater gordon's last for the show. if she was such a good writer, i would of thought the show would want to keep her instead of letting her go, so that they can get alot more good work out of her, whilst she becomes a better writer. that full potential nosense they stated in a press release is just aload of shite. it would of been much cooler to just tell the truth.
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Loved the scene of Roger Sterling tearing Draper apart in Burt Cooper's office.I wonder if they'll decide to put all their shit in the past and be friends again. I could eventually go for some more Don and Roger on the town escapades again ala season 1 and 2.Also, thanks for the Stephen King link. Pre-Ordering after I log out of here.
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So, this week I am giving 5 stars to last night's Phillies vs. Dodgers game where the Phillies bludgeoned LA to death 11 to 0.
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As some of you mentioned, his realization scene was great, "my God." It's not that he's a bad writer, but he's not wired for the ad world like Peggy is. He might be able to sit and write a short story or a novel, which they've hinted at being his true ambitions as a writer. Peggy has the talent in the room where it counts. Also, I think they are showing how back in those days, a dude can drink in the office, show up with incomplete work, and get away with it; while someone like Peggy is on thinner ice to begin with due to the business world's attitude toward women back then. In a sense, Peggy has a natural advantage because she is forced to do better and more consistent work to keep her current position. Also, I get the impression that she is just much more ambitious than any of the other guys (Pete, Kinsey, Ken, Harry, Sal). Although, Sal gave the impression that he was more serious about his work. Probably because he was a bit older and has less options were he to quit or unfortunately, as he was, be fired. I'm interested to see what kind of work Sal gets. Hopefully they won't leave that thread hanging by the end of the season.
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If Herc put in a link to Crichton's Pirate Latitudes book he'd probably get some sales of that too.
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Maybe it was just my mood (though I was sick last night) but I thought this episode was way better than - and to an extent redeemed - last week's episode. The schoolteacher affair became a lot more interesting, not least because of her brother, and the hang up call that Sally answered made the fact that Betty AND Don were straying a lot more immediate. The bit where Betty put the key back in the middle of the night was outstanding.
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1. One of the writers at Slate.com talking about MAD MEN made a point that occured to me last night as well: What do you think Betty was able to figure out from the drawer? That Don had a wife he never told her about? That he knew somebody named Dick Whitman? I think the fact that the whole thing is still a mystery for her has to be disturbing for her.
2. The money in the drawer is getaway money. If Don needs to run for it, or shed the Draper identity, he's got the liquid assets to do it.
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She probably thought many things, such as what you said and maybe also wondering if he had killed someone named Dick Whitman and took the guy's identity. But ultimately after she sifted it all, I think what she took from it is that she has the leverage now and things are going to change. Which will be fine by me - Don has been such a douche the last few episodes, it will be good to see him get some comeuppance.
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I meant in answer to your 1st question. The worst part is having to make a new post to correct it and feeling like a spammer.
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We already know Don worked for a fur company. He did not work in a fur factory, he was in sales. Before that he was a used car salesman. Before that and after the army we don't quite know yet. But he was working at the fur company when he met Betty. Its mentioned several times and he references his previous job when he does the pitch for the carousel at the end of season 1. Come on Crow you're better than that.
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I honestly don't remember any mention of a fur company at all. Maybe I am better, I do LOVE this show, but I don't recall that. Funny thing is I remember the Carousel speech/scene/finale vividly because I considered it, at the time, to be just aboutthe finest television scene i had seen since The Wire. Don talking about the Carousel as Betty vents to the psychiatrist. Beautiful stuff. But I don't remember the fur thing before last night...oh well....shame on me I suppose
on top of that, I also considered the idea of what exactly does Betty know free sifting trough that stuff. It wasn't exactly clear cut infrmation, just scraps. I think the picture of Dick at 16 or 17 might have looked enough like Don for her to figure it out, but I think the divorce thing rewally threw her. Tere is no way to know what conclusions she would draw from that. -
The carousel speech was pretty sweet. Right at the beginning he talks about a colleague and the idea of nostalgia as opposed to new and attributes that to a colleague at the fur company.
I don't think Betty has enough to know about the stolen identity, but I'd say she has enough to cause trouble.
But Campbell tried to swing the same bat and he actually knew what was up and Cooper just noted the identity theft as a detail filed alongside Don's hair color. So who knows. That's why the show is awesome. -
There were divorce papers with the names Anna Draper and Don Draper. So she knows Don had a wife he didn't tell her about. She couldn't really understand the Dick Whitman stuff.
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I'm thinking no but I want to be surprised. It'll be too much if Betty goes away and comes back by the end of the season. I'd rather they really get divorced.
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He looked at least 15 to me, by size, and probably older, thats being conservative. It didn't show a close-up for us, but I feel like, in the real world, if someone showed you a picture of your husband at that age, even if you hadn't known him, you would without a second thought recognize him. Betty would know that was Don as soon as she looked at the picture, thats what pictures are for. It said Dick on the back, and it had Don in the picture. I think even Betty would notice that. Also, remember she saw the two sets of dog tags. She's not stupid. I think the things she saw would, if not allow the average person to at least eventually put it all together, would at least give you the idea Don Draper wasn't always his name. Still hangs on the assumption she could recognize him in the photo, but I'm not sure how she couldn't.
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and a pompous crybaby to boot. Good lord do I dislike that goober.
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Does he go to prison? Does he get a firing squad? What happens if the government finds out what he did?
I hope Betty just freaks out next episode (looks like she was about to at the end) because I'm tired of her current character. All she does is brood.
I predict the teacher chick is going to be Don's downfall in one form or another. Don't rule out the fact that he may have to take care of her. -
Oct 20, 2009 3:40:40 AM CDT
The guy in the embed looks like an evil Colonel Sanders
by takingscorpioscalls
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While I think you may be able to conclude that, I just think it would be more confusing to Betty than anything. The most obvious thing she easily gets is that Don was married before.Considering Don stole someone's identity, couldn't it be said that his marriage to Anna and to Betty are both not legal, and that they have never technically been married. That'd also make all the kids illegitimate, too. Like Cooper said, "who's really signing, anyway?" (Paraphrase, I'm sure)
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They made such a big point of Peggy getting and meeting her new roommate. And the situation or the roommate have never been mentioned again? What the Hell??
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Always keep your office desk stocked with freshly laundered linen shirts. LOL. I need to start doing that.
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Thank you. I was going to say the same thing.
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BizarroJerry: I agree entirely, especially considering Peggy had to put on a big show about being a party-girl to attract a roommate. If she isn't out partying with her roommate, how much you wanna bet the roommate hates her? Surely that apartment is ground zero for a lot of bitching and moaning about noise, cleaning duties, gentlemen callers, etc.
HoboCode: I was thinking the exact same thing. Hell, I should keep a full suit in the office so I can come to work in trackpants and a stained t-shirt, and throw the suit on in the rare event that someone actually makes an appointment to see my boss (Yes, I am a modern-day male Lois. What of it?!)
Regarding Betty: I think the only thing she cares about are the divorce papers. If she confronts Don about the drawer she'll bring up that she doesn't understand the other stuff and will demand an explanation, but Don'll see she isn't connecting the dots and he'll just come up with a good story. They will not get a divorce, but Sally will talk all about their relationship with her therapist in a couple of decades.
Regarding Peggy: Peggy might become a highly-regarded copywriter, but I still don't think she will become a "success", which by definition means being promoted to Creative Director, and eventually maybe a partner. I don't see that happening at Sterling Cooper. I could be wrong, of course. It's entirely possible that Roger will have his ultimate heart attack, the joint will be sold to one of the Media Services Conglomerates which were just beginning their 30-year campaigns of consolidation (advertising, public relations, direct mail, CRM, marketing, and strategic consulting, all under the same corporate umbrella) in the early 60s, Draper will be chosen by the new owners to run the advertising division, and Draper will choose Peggy as his successor. But I doubt it. -
I don't see why not, really. I forget how old she is but I figure mid-20s. 20 years later it's the eighties and she's in her 40s, why couldn't she end up a creative director? She might have to take some shit for a while but they seem to be showing that she's a kind of savant and that kind of talent usually rises to the top.
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only if she doesn't let her jealous co-workers try to keep her from rising.
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Perhaps Peggy's family found out she wasn't Norwegian (in actuality an evil Swede) and they had the Norwegian mafia rub her out.
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I seem to remember Don went to ask the real Mrs. Draper for a divorce only after he was serious with (maybe engaged to?)Betty. No doubt Betty noticed the date on the divorce decree. She just learned Don was a married man when they met.
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We've been invaded by the idiots who troll this site. For a few weeks now we've managed to have genuinely intelligent and organized talkbacks unnoticed. But, it seems they've found us.
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Well there have always been trolls here, they're just a slightly higher class of troll (see: cheyne_stoking_DMS)
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Look! Whatever I type comes up on screen! Yay!!!
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Or even Harold Robbins or Jacqueline Susann: Peggy will not end up holding all the cards by the end of the show. I imagine that she will probably be relatively successful, paving the way for the modern working woman, but not in a way where she'll finally make it to the executive suite, pounding her fist on her desk dramatically and saying with steely determination worthy of a middle-aged Faye Dunaway: "Am I the only bitch with any balls around here? Get it done, NOW!", and then while her underlings leave she sits back in her chair in self-satisfaction only to catch, out of the corner of her eye, a glimpse of her own reflection in a mirror or other reflective surface, and just for a moment, she doesn't recognize herself; doesn't recognize what her ambition and the world of business has turned her into, so that she sits stunned with a look on her face which plaintively asks "Was it worth it? Was it worth it?..." Cue credits.
That won't happen to Peggy. That will happen to Harry. -
I agree; that would be terribly cliche and I think that particular cliche is sort of misogynist.
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Sad we won't see such an authentic and moving cliche as that.
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I imagine an episode in a future season where a real high-powered, university-educated, bitch-with-steel-balls, female executive type is hired on, and little mousy Peggy gets left in the dust. Maybe Sterling Cooper's new owners hear the stories that S-C is a gynocracy, and they appoint a female minder to replace Lane Pryce.
Nah, that's too far-fetched. Sorry, I haven't had my morning coffee yet. -
was how Don said "I hate when that happens" after Kinsey said he lost his idea. Don was ready to lose his shit but ultimately empathized with Kinsey's plight.
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needs to come back. i also want to see what happened to her kid. I thought her mom/sister were raising him. and her roommate was smoking, she should come back to. I wouldn't mind seeing Pete leave his wife/SC by the end of the season. In fact, I think it's likely.
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Mad Man is an unrealistic portrait of an adulterer. Most adulterers are preying upon less attractive women who have low self esteem. Girls who will stroke their ego as well as other things. Maybe they will get the occasional beautiful women but beautiful women for the most part are high maintenance and need to be pursued... they just won't sleep with you so easily as it seems like it happens on Madmen. The show is as realistic and as insightful as a soap opera.
Steve Phillips, former baseball gm/espn analyst, his story of adultery and how this girl becomes obsessed with his family and tries to become friends with his kids and such, would be a much more entertaining storyline than the random, unrealistic trysts of cheating that happen on this show. In the real world, These many hot girls are not hooking up with some Ad executive i don't care how good looking Don Draper is.
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