Oct. 17, 2009, 2:10 a.m. CST
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:15 a.m. CST
with a sentence fragment.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:16 a.m. CST
that first sentence?
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:19 a.m. CST
The Christian right should love this movie. It will do better than The Passion of the Christ. Congratulations to Scott Swan.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:36 a.m. CST
Like the rest of Toetag's flicks do? Then I'm in! Seriously, this site is promoting things like AUM now?
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:37 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
This site has more than 10000 readers?! I kid, I kid...<br><br> Anyway, I'm a little worried about Harry these days. How much porn does he seriously watch? Where is the line between art and filth on this? Does this have redeemable value as a piece of art? Hard to say, as I have not seen it, but I question whether I even want to. The so-called "Christian right" will probably never hear about this movie. Passion of the Christ has a was broader audience than the "kill pornstars" genre. I, for one, am very thankful for that.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:41 a.m. CST
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:45 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
What's your friend's movie about? Does it have a lot of porn in it, like Harry's friend's movie?
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:50 a.m. CST
Dr. Butthole. Sometimes I like to post things called "jokes". I really don't think a snuff film made in Harry's friends basement is on par with a Blockbuster pet project directed by Mel Gibson....or do I. dun dun dun.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:53 a.m. CST
"I'm betting there's less than 10,000 readers of this site that will genuinely be able to take watching this from beginning to end."<p> Play up the ego just to get them to watch a movie, eh? Trying to whip up the next PARANORMAL ACTIVITY, are we?<p> "Movie no one can see to the end." Catchy tagline.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:08 a.m. CST
I fully understand what it is to be shocked now. It's hard to get into most horror flicks, now, really. Though I did just enjoy the hell out of Hellraiser 2.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:13 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
I knew you were kidding (my post came off as snarky, for sure... I'm really tired...), but my OVERALL point was, what is the point of this movie? And, really, would there have been ANY information about this movie if it WEREN'T Harry's friend? You make all the jokes you want, my friend! Besides, wouldn't you prefer a tight Dr. Butthole? I just grossed myself out...
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:16 a.m. CST
I forget the name but it used the same sandbox. Faux porn casting interviewers murdered duped victims. The guy who made it pimped the fuck outta it on bloody-disgusting.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:18 a.m. CST
It's pretty chaste in terms of the sexual relations. They're just not really there. Things turn violent before the clothes are all gone.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:21 a.m. CST
if it had a DVD release, yeah - there would be, I write about films that attempt to be as graphic or repulsive as this fairly often in my DVD column. And if MASKHEAD had a release date on DVD, I would have saved writing about it till then. But I don't believe it has a release scheduled.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:21 a.m. CST
Harry's friend gets good review on a movie that will never see a theater.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:22 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
That's hilarious! Put that on the box... but seriously, Harry, I would like your take on a film like this as far as it being art. I mean, is this "popcorn" type entertainment, a study in what audiences can handle? None of these? I guess what I'm asking is... what is the purpose for a film like this? I'm curious because "Antichrist" has been getting all kinds of buzz about whether it is art for similar reasons. What would you say is the purpose of films like this?
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:25 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
I would agree that you do cover films like this pretty often in that column (I love your DVD column, by the way, especially lately!). I know you get raked over the coals on this site all the time for your opinion(and you take it like a man, each time) but did you promote this because it was a friend's film or because you thought it was cool? Both?
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:37 a.m. CST
I'm sure many readers of this site have come across Toetag's flicks. And yes, they probably couldn't sit through them. But as Butthole said, what's the point? Not of making them, they have the right. But as promoting them, isn't that a job for BloodyDisgusting? I may be wrong, but did you ever review August Underground Mordum in a DVD review? If it's just for a friend, just say so, cuz that 'is' Cool. But when is the last time you reviewd a Toetag flick?
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:45 a.m. CST
Actually a little of both. The film is cool in how it accomplishes exactly what it set out to do. It has limited production values given its non-existent budget, but Scott manages to get some interesting performances out of a cast, that I'm completely unfamiliar with. <BR><BR>But I was honest and up front about this coming from someone I've known for around 10 years. That said, I've spent very little time alone with Scott. I'd say we've had a few 1 on 1 conversations over the last decade, but I think I have less than 5 of those. Scott is someone that when I see him, it makes me smile. 1 - because he looks like Orson Welles - and one can never have enough friends that either look like or sound like Orson Welles. 2 - because we both know everything that can be said to make Drew blush. <BR><BR>But I wrote the review because I had friends locally that wanted to know how Scotty's film was and rather than have 28 separate conversations, I decided to just write my thoughts down here. The film has actually played at a couple of Horror Conventions I believe. I did see this yesterday, and it is October - which means... I'm supposed to review Horror things. Right?
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:56 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
Your website, your rules, my friend! I was just curious to see where you stood on that. Getting interesting performances out of an unknown cast? That is something to report, for sure.<br><br>I am still curious to hear what you think about films like this or "Antichrist" or "Hostel", etc. What is the purpose of these films? I can appreciate exploitation and I can appreciate wanting to just freak an audience out. I guess I'm concerned (although that might be too strong a word) about where these types of films are coming from and why the audience is growing. Is this art? Does it further film and does it say something specific or general about humanity? What do you think, Harry?!
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:17 a.m. CST
I walked in late, but holy shit, was it fucked up!! <p> *big spoiler* </p> <p> A woman has her vagina f*cked by a guy with a giant piece of SPIKED wood attached to his dick (so not really a woody but a WOODy...) </P> It was disturbing to say the least cause it looked freaking real! <p> I asked Scot afterwards how he did that and he told me he made a plaster print of the girls real vagina. </p> <P>It was sicker and more disturbing than all the Saw movies combined. </p>
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:20 a.m. CST
Can't wait to see this; especially after the howling & puking & melons the boys were going on about. The pics were great too. <p> Selfish question: Am I in the credits?
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:26 a.m. CST
can't speak to ANTICHRIST as I haven't seen it yet, but given I'm directly responsible for HOSTEL existing due to an infamous phone conversation with Eli Roth - I'll tell you how I feel about the genre. <BR><BR>The genre is extreme and isn't for all audiences, but all films do not need to be for all audiences. A film can succeed brilliantly on a segment of an audience. HOSTEL made a lot of money, far more so on DVD. I feel these films come from a realistic place. I love TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE - in my opinion it is one of the greatest horror films ever made. And when Marilyn Burns is tied to that armchair at the dinner table... and they give Grandpa that hammer to kill her and bleed her into the bucket - and he can't quite do it, and she's freaking out, and everyone's laughing and making weird noises at the dinner table... the shit is fucking unsettling dude. It's a scarier situation than supernatural scares - because Zombies, Vampires, Witches, etc... not likely to happen. BUT people do get abducted and tortured and killed. This stuff happens. Like - what happened to that girl in Aruba? What happens to all the missing people that are never found? We know from police history - and cases like Henry Lee Lucas, Dahmer, Bundy, etc... that all manners of horror is committed for the express satisfaction of a single person. <BR><BR>That's the real world. It's the reason we don't let our kids walk to school unsupervised anymore. It's why we all lock our doors. It's why when people approach you in a parking lot for money, we all get uptight. It's just scary out there. <BR><BR>For me, the "Torture Porn" genre is not Porn. When I watch a film like MASKHEAD, I am not titillated, I'm not giddy. It hurts. It is brutal, with a wicked sense of humor and some realistic portrayals by the actors and actresses that sometimes can be too much to watch. <BR><BR>So why watch? First off - I know the genre. Second - will the girls be hot? Third - how are the makeup visual effects? Fourth - will I pick up on something I'm not expecting, by watching the film. <BR><BR>In many ways, this film would be something I would show my HOT YOUNG DAUGHTER before she moved to California to demonstrate why you never know what may happen by answering an add that seems to be for porn. It could be Scott Swan.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:40 a.m. CST
by Dr. Butthole
I would agree that what gives the genre a <i>gravitas</i>, so to speak, is that it COULD happen. Freddy, Jason, Jigsaw, etc. don't scare me. What happened to Jaycee Dugard is the stuff that scares me. REAL PEOPLE did that stuff and maybe these movies, to some degree, point this stuff out. However, I wonder if it's ok for me to be entertained by it. You say it hurts and it's brutal, so why am I watching it? Disturbingly, I might agree with you about showing it to my kids as a warning. I don't know... it's a big can of worms, the "torture porn" genre. I am all about a film maker being able to express himself and show his vision and, yes, I don't have to watch it. Thanks for your thoughts, I'm just not sure I'm any further as to whether there truly is a point for this genre, as far as art goes. Thanks, Harry! You rock, man!
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:07 a.m. CST
I mean i regularly screw dead chicks and fondle children ? All i want to know is, is it as good as the pig fucking movie ?
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:09 a.m. CST
As a person who loved POUGHKEEPSIE (and I know Drew did too), will I enjoy this?
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:15 a.m. CST
>"Torture Porn" genre is not Porn. Why watch then? Your answers: So why watch? First off - I know the genre. (porn) Second - will the girls be hot? (porn) Third - how are the makeup visual effects? (yep... porn) Fourth - will I pick up on something I'm not expecting, by watching the film. (Extended Porn) You may not be titillated at first... but the more you watch it, the more you promote it, the more you talk about it, the more you... "this film would be something I would show my young daughter" Really? The Breakfast Club don't have 'nuff gore?
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:19 a.m. CST
It's not in any way, shape or form even close to being a torture porn flick like Hostel.<p> <p> Antichrist is a BEAUTIFULLY shot art film that is both very weird and violent but the images alone will hypnotize the shit out of you.<p> <p> But you can't even compare it to Hostel because it's like comparing Murnau's Nosferatu with Bad Taste. There's just not enough in common to compare the two.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:21 a.m. CST
I want your address. Im coming to kill you, you contribute to the death of cinema. Thank god you never got to do John Carter. I think everyone agrees, your taste and thought on the medium cinema, is piss poor at best. Eli Roth is an ignorant talentless slut. I have a scoop for your website also. James Cameron "dislikes" harry knowles. AVATAR my god, what candy. the last 40 mins will make you piss.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:53 a.m. CST
by birdy birdman
These two assholes are responsible for some of the chintziest failures in horror history. Mcweeny's microdick hard on for rape-o domination scenarios is maddening in its social irresponsibility, and outdouched only by his inane screenplays and asinine production design. From the abysmal Masters Of Horror to the literally unwatchable Fail Itself the fact that these two shitheads have wormed their way into actual positions of standing in the industry is further testament to how low things have sunk and how each generation seems to be competing to utterly fail to meet the creative standards of the previous ones. BAD, JUST BAD.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:01 a.m. CST
by birdy birdman
I wonder how much actual snuff material these deranged manchildren have managed to actually acquire. Considering the troubling gain of influence and power through the rise of AICN it's known that these guys pride themselves on their rare acquisitions and considering Mori's uniform praise of any modern film containing roughie elements I'd say there's no way he he's either found a way to procure one or more, or donned the god damn Machine get-up and ventured out of his mother's attic himself.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:26 a.m. CST
by jason baum
there's a difference between getting 'high and mighty', and calling foul on filmmakers who turn to graphic violence towards women because they aren't talented enough to express their frustrations in a more refined and artistic way. no - i have not seen the film, but i can imagine exactly what you're talking about, based on your review. and it's pretty chicken shit to insinuate that people are snobby because they demand more from a story than gratuitous torture porn. that was a pretty irresponsible sentence you wrote there harry. i'm surprised you'd feel that way.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:52 a.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/ycwk3tv<p> And Harry if you are responsible for Hostel, your a prick. You deserve a punch in the face for all the shit released since that piece of crap.
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:04 a.m. CST
Hostel is NOT tortureporn, Antichrist (I agree) is not tortureporn, BadTaste/Reanimator/etc. is not tortureporn. Have you ever seen a Toetag flick? Their movies should actually be called 'Snuffporn'. I hope this movie is better than that, but going by Harry's review.... hey, maybe I can at least take my young daughter to it! The work of Mr. Swan's partner: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0410332/
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:08 a.m. CST
didn't shock or offend me. I enjoyed its weirdness. Not really a horror genre, I know, but still, the slang "fucked-up" comes to mind. If I'm told up-front that the movie is perverse or shocking, it usually kills the shock. Which is good, because then I just watch the movie for what it is.
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:19 a.m. CST
Jeff Bridges didn't fuck the rotting corpse of the little girl in a bathtub... (this is very far from a Gilliam thread)
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:30 a.m. CST
Seriously, don't let that screed on torture porn get lost in the shuffle. Post it again, attach it to this post, whatever...
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:43 a.m. CST
"HOSTEL made a lot of money, far more so on DVD. It hurts, It is brutal." ummm... cum again?
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:39 a.m. CST
google the trailer. it has the production values of a cable access show, and the acting of a star wars fan film. "are the girls hot". that's a very important question I suppose. if the girls are going to get tortured their hotness must be a factor. hey harry, you should watch the video of the iraqi girl Neda dying it might fit your criteria of a good movie. enjoy. why don't you just admit this amateur bullshit fucking sucked.
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:39 a.m. CST
im pissed i even know this exists
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:56 a.m. CST
I watched Eden Lake yesterday, based solely on the fact that I heard Fassbender was good in it, and wanted to see more of him after his brilliant bad-assed-ness in Inglourious Basterds. Anyway, I really had no idea it turned into a mildly "torture porn" isn type movie, really a mix of The Strangers and Cabin Fever or something, but still....I just don't see the point in these films anymore. And I know the TB already covered this, it doesn't have to have a "point" just like violence in real life sometimes doesn't have a purpose or point, but I just get nothing out of it. I just feel so filthy the entire time, and I feel such incredible empathy for characters who did nothing wrong except be in the wrong place and the wrong time. There is no catharsis in that. They just want to live out their happy lives, and instead they get tortured to death. I don't want to watch any more of these films. I've seen enough horrific, senseless violence. And with each movie they just try to get more depraved and take it a little bit further...its getting too much. Fassbender had a giant hole cut in the side of stomach. Not cool. The horror genre in general has failed in the last few decades. <p> Rant Over.
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:12 a.m. CST
he and McWeeny would stop writing this horror stuff and make a real film...perverse is easy, sorry it is, just STOP WITH THIS SHIT!
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:23 a.m. CST
...for Hostel's conception, you should be fucking ashamed of the level of shit you brought to the world. As to the whole tortureporn debate, I've got no time for these type of movies - they're 'horror' for the ADD afflicted. No, violence in real life doesn't often have a point, and rather than that being a justification for the existence of films like this, it is actually the argument against. To film this kind of thing solely from that viewpoint of 'shit happens, ain't people sick so we don't need a point to this story, just some really fucked up shit' means the film itself has no fucking reason to exist. Nothing to say. No point whatsoever. And all they do is contribute to the lowering of our society in general. If it aint just some fantasy of yours that you got the Hostel ball rolling, Harry, well, shame on you. For all the great things you've done over the years for good films, cinema in general through promotion on this site, you've also seriously damaged quality cinema and lowered people's standards by opening the door for this vile shit. There was always some sick stuff in film before, but at least there was generally a point to it beyond catering to people with fucked up rape fantasies bouncing around their fucked up little minds.
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST
... Whilst I'm impressed you've responded to questions in this talkback (and your responses are far more articulate than the majority of your reviews!), I'm utterly disappointed that this shit is taking up bandwidth on this site. <p> <p> I've got nothing against the likes of "Hostel". Not my cup of tea per so, but c'mon people, at least "Hostel" has a semblance of a plot, sketchy characterisation and nominal protagonists and antagonists. Y'know, the kind of thing necessary for any dramatic narrative. <p> <p> But fuck the likes of Toetag Pictures. It's nasty, debased, cruel nihilism but to film, clearly by fuckwits who don't "get" women, and like to act out some truly hateful rape-revenge fantasies. <p> <p> Sorry. It's just fucking true. There is no debate to be had on whether it's "art" or not. Whether it's challenging the norms of cinematic storytelling by dispensing with such contrivances as, er, "plot" for a start. <p> <p> To me, it's nothing more than cock-swinging by grown men trying to outdo one another in the fucked-up fantasy stakes. Grown men who are pretty much stunted adolescents. <p> <p> It's not "challenging". It's just fucking disgusting. And most of all, just very, very, depressing. <p> <p> It really doesn't have much place on here Harry, regardless of your connections to those behind it - which, fair enough, you were open and honest about.
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:48 a.m. CST
"The genre is extreme and isn't for all audiences" We don't need this kind of industry cheapening crap that has sprung up in the last few years. Concocted and "created" by a bunch of worthless cheap hacks looking to make a name for themselves as controversial, when in fact all they are are talentless douches who couldn't write to save their lives. Tortureporn is worthless crap and i'm glad to see it's starting it's fade into the background of late. Most of that shit is now getting dumped STV where it belongs. And while I hate Eli Roth for dumping the shit that is Hostel on us, I still look forward to his old-school grindhouse/slasher version of Thanksgiving if he ever gets to making it.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10 a.m. CST
for guys too afraid of jail to live out their sexual fantasy, and too afraid of dying to join the military and get the ok to kill people for real to satisfy that desire. In short..a genre for 40 yr old pussies and teenaged boys with bad acne who have developed a hate for the girls who ignore them.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:04 a.m. CST
but... "this film would be something I would show my HOT YOUNG DAUGHTER!" Harry. Seriously. There's a point.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST
making REAL torture porn movies for years. So I just do not see the attraction to this kind of film. Wanna see some chick hanging from fish hooks, electrocuted, hot waxed, beat till bleeding....that shit is out there you twisted fuckers...for real, no special effects needed. So why bother faking it?
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST
It's freakin awesome. Sure, it lacks a little polish, but it succeeds in what it set out to accomplish. It's a lesbian slasher film, it shocks the crap out of you, it makes you squirm, it confirms you are a decent human being because you get so damned uncomfortable watching it. <br><br> I don't see what the fuss is all about. It's just a movie, for christsakes. Don't watch it if you're a pussy.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:19 a.m. CST
I thought Harry telling everyone that they couldn't handle this movie would make everyone in this talkback want to see it immediately or at least boast that they were going to watch it. I suppose on the internet you should never be surprised by negativity, but I didn't expect all this bashing against the film. Especially since no one has seen it yet. The plot description doesn't really entice me, but the fact that Harry who has seen every movie ever had to look away from this one intrigues me. I really think that this may be a genuinely hard to watch movie.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:37 a.m. CST
There are a few gory scenes that are very realistic. The one that comes to mind is when maskhead slashes this lady's arm and the big hunk of flesh is peeled back and blood is squirting out. I think I went, "EWWWWW" out loud.<BR><BR> But remember the opening sequence of Saving Private Ryan? Lots of gore as well. I guess it's just a matter of context.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:41 a.m. CST
It seems so far most of the people here are being far from negative, or ragging on this film specifically. Rather it seems most people are displaying their disgust at the tortureporn genre, a genre that is completely devoid of merit or worth - and I don't consider this talkback negative, in fact it's very positive to see. It means we aren't all quite as sick or fucked up as we're led to believe. I've got no specific vitriol for this movie - as you've said, most of us - myself included - haven't seen it, nor will I. The fact that someone here has already stated the film contains a scene of a woman being raped with a barbed stick, well, just think about that for a second. There's definately a line between art and entertainment, and depravity for the sake of it. It's genuinely positive to see so many people are against this fucked up genre.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:48 a.m. CST
Nice name. Tarantino can bash a guys skull in with a baseball bat in glorious technicolor, or pulverize Hitler's face with a tommy gun, and it's ART! Now that I think about it, Basterds had some scenes even more gross than Maskhead. We should probably try to get that movie banned.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:51 a.m. CST
My sentiments exactly. <p> <p> I guess we should maybe be glad that likes of Vogel and his Toetag cohorts, which sadly now seem to include Harry's pal, can indulge themselves by faking it all.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:58 a.m. CST
Which is a giant floating log of shit in the cesspool that has become "indie" horror. It's a shot-on-video crapfest with hardcore porn stars getting "strangled" by the movie's director after he we're forced to watch him have sex with them. Basically it's a porno with one badly acted murder scene after another. They've made, like, three of these fucking movies already. Your friend's late to the party.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:01 a.m. CST
In the movie Seven the one of the victims was forced to kill a hooker with a knife dildo. Originality is dead. I wish I could remember that other films name. The one that this film rips off.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:04 a.m. CST
Hint_of_Smegma, I'm with you. You can dress this up any way you want. You can call it a "genre." You can say, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." You could say that about child pornography. Can we slap a genre label on that too? What merit do these types of films have? Their only purpose seems to satiate the appetite of people who want to see the human person debased beyond all recognition. Is it too far a stretch to imagine this stuff feeding some very sick minds? You really have to wonder about the people who can dream up the scenarios presented in these films. I am a fan of horror films, but this is not horror by any stretch. I guess Harry has the right to throw a friend a bone and get him some publicity, but I also think he needs to consider what he's throwing his support behind.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:05 a.m. CST
It was supposed to be fantasy, fun and foam.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:11 a.m. CST
by The Reluctant Austinite
--Toetag Pictures of August Underground "fame", so you pretty much know what to expect. I just watched the trailer on YouTube. Maybe it'll scare people out of wanting to audition for porn.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:19 a.m. CST
I don't mind films that peel away the filters. TCM is not a gory film. All of the blood is at the end on Sally. Sally, Jerry, Krik and Franklin are not very fleshed out. They say very little. We know next to nothing about them. We know more about franklin- the most annoying character of the group, becuase he actually talks to much. I hope the next redux gets it right. The characters can be as paper thin as you can muster. Just keep the ride in motion, don't leave any time open for dead air to creep in. I think we feel trapped in Sallys skin because of her nothingness. Just as we do when we play certain game characters. The character instantly becomes us, because it's empty enough for us to project ourselves into it. Give it some character and we start to identify other people who are like them, or no one at all. I guess I'm saying Fodder Characters work when you play them just right.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:19 a.m. CST
by The Reluctant Austinite
The closest I've seen "Torture Porn" get to actually having artistic intentions recently was "Martyrs," and I understand how makers of this type of film are trying to push limits of horror and audience response, but for myself, I have no taste for it, and I will continue to appauld the efforts of those trying to bring back supernatural elements into the horror genre.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:21 a.m. CST
Harry can say this may only appeal to a limited audience - and thankfully it seems he's right. He may also state that 'not every film appeals to every audience' and again that's true - but that doesn't mean every audience SHOULD get a film that appeals to them. As you say, pedophiles are a minority audience but luckily no-one who isn't a part of that fucked up world is making movies for them - yet. The tortureporn genre really isn't that far away from that level though - all it does is pander to a desire in a certain section of the mainly male 'audience' that want to imagine taking whatever woman they want and doing whatever the sickest thoughts they can come up with direct them to - or brutalising other males to make up for their own inadequacies. There is no merit to this genre, no reason for it's existence except to milk money from an increasingly fucked up section of humanity. And where does it go from here? Ever downward. As to SITCHIN's post, boy, is there a big difference between graphic violence in a movie made for general entertainment purposes and graphic sexual violence made purely to satiate people with warped minds. All of us here have our guilty pleasures in film and I've seen some bizarre, twisted things in horror or action movies. None of those things were the sole selling point of the movies existence, however....nor was the movie made specifically to appeal to the kind of viewer who only wants to see THAT kind of imagery. Big, big difference. It is indeed Harry's right to want to support a friend, but as Filegumbo points out supporting a friend on some occasions may well me a morally reprehensible thing, and I find anyone sticking up for, promoting or making these kinds of 'movies' utterly reprehensible.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:23 a.m. CST
it's early the liqours watered down. Forgive.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:25 a.m. CST
...that you fat, atheistic losers now have another movie that reflects your worldview. Enjoy it; I'm going to go volunteer and actually help someone.
Oct. 17, 2009, 11:52 a.m. CST
...and teenaged boys with bad acne who have developed a hate for the girls who ignore them." <p> The best description of torture porn I've ever read. <p> Some people here have tried to narrow the reprehensibility gap between TP and kiddie porn which is something I have to take exception to. While nobody hates TP more than I do, trying to draw comparisons between it and kiddie porn does the opposite of dragging TP down in the gutter (any further) -- instead it raises the status of child porn. As odious and irredeemable as TP is, it's still make-believe whereas child porn is nothing but the documentation of a heinous and very real crime. <p> Big difference.
Oct. 17, 2009, noon CST
I shopped the idea around here about it so many times. Pretty simple plot. Independent Internet Hyped snuff film- no ones seen it, just the trailers on youtube that lead to the web site. The unknown unnamed director emails the AICN crew. A relationship develops. He sends exclusive clips to premier on the AICN website, he even sends some film props for a submit you best fake snuffer clip contest to AICN as well. This relationship will see the film premiered at BNAT. The director and his crew show up wearing the same damn masks and costumes the killers in his film wear. He refuses to take it off. He convinces Harry and Quint to allow him to set cameras up around the audience to grab some real reactions to help salt the next trailer. He introduces the film and it's the biggest Fly in the Vaseline like speech ever heard. There's just something not right with this fuck. The film plays. People figure out pretty fast that the movie is real. The last victim attack shown before the film cuts out just happens to be Professor Moriarty. The crew and the director followed him home. The film jump cuts around since this scene can only play for a few seconds, but the brutality that befalls Drewbuddy and his family is beyond disturbing. Mori asks why this is happening. The director pulls off his mask. It's Uwe Bole.<P> Uwe: "Cinema is better without you"<P> The film cuts off. it's completely pitch black, everyone is panicking<P> Suddenly the screen comes back to life. On the screen we see the audience sitting all fucked up in their seats. We see Uwe and the crew standing by the door. Uwe pulls the chain tight, he puts the pad lock through it. Everyone gets up and races towards the fire escape doors in a panic. Uwe and his masked crew go at them with chainsaws, machetes, axes, torches, and handguns. The fire exit doors are electrified with metal sheeting on them wired to a collection of car batteries on the otherside. Everyone who makes it to the door is fried. This madness is all caught on the several cameras littered about. It's fucking brutal and awesome. Harry is left alive, because it's his birthday, his wife's head is the cake. A tribute to Creepshow if you will. I spoke up about something liek this a few times before- way before QT's IB. ME sad cause now it will never happen. The director didnt have to be Uwe. It could be a total no one or a disgruntled TB'er- or a snuff wannabe filmmaker. Me sad though, Unga Bunga never get to see this movie made, thanks to IB. Cavvvvvvvvvvvvvveeeeee Maaaaaaaaannnnnnn!!!!!!!! Ok, me go cry now.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m. CST
...could be said of torture porn, which is bad enough, is that it in all probability inures viewers to realistic depictions of torture, violence and murder, thus raising the hit count on evil web sites that host decapitation videos and other gory shit. <p> I have yet to meet a torture porn fan who is anything but an amoral fucktard.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:01 p.m. CST
Just like I personally was more disturbed by arms getting sawn off than a CGI penis in Watchmen. So, some people might mistake the ability to conjure up strong emotions with art. They are mistaken.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:14 p.m. CST
I think you've misread the comments about TP and CP. You're completely correct in the statements you made, but the comments we've made are not about stating TP is in that realm. It's drawing a distiction on Harry's comments about not every film being for every audience, as I've said not every audience should get a film. And while TP is a fictional genre, it is indeed a morally reprehensible genre. The insidious nature of it is a problem too. People in general, except for the sick fucks who seek it out, know CP is fucked, evil and to be avoided. TP however has been couched in the 'horror' genre and as such people expose themselves to it in large numbers. Now while many who do only do so once before realising what they let themselves in for and abandoning it, it does retain what I would suggest are somewhat 'damaged' fans who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to that sort of imagery - before TP, there wasn't exactly many places people could go to seek out such imagery. (Extreme bondage porn sites may have been the closest but I personally think while they're also for the fucked in the head, they're still a fair way away from the levels of horrific sexual violence displayed and glorified in TP, ironic considering the use of genuine porn. Semantics perhaps considering the barbaric objectification, however at least bondage porn intimates consent and enjoyment the majority of the time, as opposed to genuine rape and murder, yes semantics but a big difference in intent). As you say, there is a big difference between real CP and fictional TP - but again, no-one was comparing the two except to illustrate that not every person out there should have their tastes catered to. And in that, there is the 'level' I referred to in the previous post.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST
I love the irony of talkbackers with names like "Butthole" and "Smegma" pretending to be the last bastions of good taste. Fucking PRICELESS. Idiots who use the "torture porn" label are saying more about themselves than the viewers who like those films. When I watch Hostel or Saw or whatever your specific definition may be, the last thing on my mind is sex or any sort of carnal gratification. I guess there aren't enough wizards or spaceships or comic-book superheroes in them for most of you, so you can't wrap your brain around the concept and you come up with stupid shit like "torture porn". Maybe it arouses you, but not me. I just like a dose of harsh, dark reality from time to time.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST
How the fuck do you have enough time to post all of your inane, pointless, pretentious, morally superior ramblings? Are you "helping someone" or "saving the world" with your blocks of text?
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:37 p.m. CST
If you can't get past a person's screename, then I'd suggest not getting into the internet at all. Surface things like this don't say much about a person beyond their sense of humour, or lack of one. The fact however you seem to want to attack people who dislike the genre is interesting however - personal attacks over comments directed at a genre. Now I can only assume you take my comments about damaged people gravitating towards this kind of film as personal - and if so, that means somewhere you identify yourself as a fan of this type of film, and resent the implication. Yet you do like the genre as you've stated, ergo regardless of your comments to the contrary, get some form of kick from the experience - a visceral reaction, because you sure as hell don't get a worthwhile storytelling experience. So why exactly do you like it? If you want me and others to 'get off our high horses' about a genre whose central purpose is to link extreme graphic violence with sexual objectification, give me a reason. So far all you've done by going off on one is to prove my point. You certainly haven't provided any rational argument.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:43 p.m. CST
You've really lost the plot with that. No-one here is pretending to be doing any good whatsoever - all we're doing is venting about a movie genre we feel is not only worthless, but actually damaging to society. Now it seems you can't handle debate of that nature....and so resort to bottom of the barrel comments like that. Pointless. In one regard, I'm like you Cap. I'm a movie fan with some time on his hands who likes visiting this site and engaging in debate with other movie fans about the topics presented. If you think that equates to those of us who hate the genre thinking we're on a moral crusade, then you must have a pretty low threshold for contrary views to your own.
Oct. 17, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST
Mask Head is a great movie. I felt as if I had lost faith in the horror genre lately with the release of all these remakes, like Halloween 2, which was terrible, but this opened my eyes to something new. I was thoroughly entertained by what I believe is a groundbreaking film. There was not a moment when I wasn’t enjoying what was on screen. Like I told you, I think everyone should check this movie out. I’ve already shown it to a bunch of my friends who all loved it as well. I really felt that the delivery of the violence was done in an unusual way. Even though the killings are horrifying, they appear surrounded by lots of laughs. A scene with the cowboy and the young guy in the hotel room was probably the most disturbing moments in the movie. I’ll never erase that from my memory. The movie is available. I have one on my shelf right now. Toetag Pictures offers at their website http://www.toetagpictures.com/webstore/
Oct. 17, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST
Of course your screen name doesn't encapsulate your whole personality, but you have to see the irony of you being offended by "torture porn" when your name could be just as offensive. I don't appreciate the mental pictures I get from talkbacker names like Smegma, Butthole, Dickblood, etc. but I don't rant and rave about how "there needs to be a line drawn" when it comes to sick, disgusting user names. It's a bit hard to take you seriously when your name was obviously designed to shock and gross people out. Maybe it's presumptuous of me to assume I know why you chose the name, just as it's presumptuous of you to assume you know why people like "torture porn" and that anybody who makes or watches such a film must be a sick fuck who gets off on it sexually.<br> <br> My issue isn't with your criticism of the genre, because it's not quite clear to me what movies fit under your label, and extreme horror is obviously not for everyone. I enjoyed the original Saw and the first Hostel, but none of the sequels were much good aside from parts of Hostel II. Saw was a total mindfuck with an original concept, as Jigsaw's motivations are understandable yet still messed up. Hostel had some engaging characters and an element of social commentary, as the American tourists objectify the prostitutes at the brothel early on in much the same way as the male victims are objectified later on. The shots of the guys walking through the whorehouse are repeated later when they're being wheeled through the hallways of the torture warehouse. It's a much smarter satire than anybody gives it credit for.<br> <br> Basically, I like horror because I like to be scared or feel my skin crawl. Ghosts, monsters, aliens, and paranormal/supernatural shit just doesn't do that for me, because it's fantasy. "Suspense" flicks with jump scares, false startles, and scary-music cues don't frighten me. But stories about innocent, random people being abducted and tortured for the gratification of a bunch of sick fucks DOES happen and that scares the shit out of me, knowing that people like that really do exist and could be living next door. That's true horror.
Oct. 17, 2009, 1:21 p.m. CST
When you start comparing CHILD PORNOGRAPHY to a fictional movie that has absolutely no link to kiddie porn. To be honest, I skimmed through those posts because my eyes were rolling so hard. Fuck that shit.
Oct. 17, 2009, 1:24 p.m. CST
by Particularly Hard Vato
Harry, i am sorry man, but this shit is getting a little old. There is a reason why these movies exist,a nod it is not because pseudo-intellectuals view them as art. Behind every one of them, there are 10 wacko perverts whose fear of the law is the only thing preventing them rom trying to act ow their weird-ass fetishes on children or other innocent people. It never ceases to amaze me that fringe weirdos actually review/debate/give credibility to what they call art involving disgusting, depraved acts of perversion. There is a reason that not everyone makes films like this- there is not a large number of people who enjoy them. Bu there is an even smaller number of people who "intellectualize" this genre of "movie." And that means that despite your attempts to whitewash your enjoyment of these films, you are either full of shit or perverted. I don't know which anymore. These films have no value, except to the pseudo intellectual who tries to legitimize them or the pervert who enjoys them. But you re right about one thing- we don't let our children walk to school unsupervised anymore. I just hope any children you have actually have a father who is unselfish enough to give them parental guidance towards what is good, not objectively analyzing everything out there that is obviously perverse in the artificial pretense of being "open minded." By your comment about your daughter viewing the movie to think twice about answering an ad for porn casting, I doubt they will. How about this- how about just plain teaching them no to be involved in producing porn? I mean, why not aim a little higher?
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:15 p.m. CST
Yes they are saying that they are MUCH better human beings then cocksuckers that willingly pay for and enjoy eating a giant steaming pile of TORTURE PORN shit.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:36 p.m. CST
He's the male rapist store owner from Pulp Fiction. Haven't recalled seeing him in anything else since.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST
It angers me that so many people get on here and bash a movie they haven’t even seen. This movie is not “torture porn” and Toetag is not a bunch of sick fucks putting their fantasies on film. I own most of their movies. The Redsin Tower is a traditional movie about lost love and possession. It is not snuff porn by any means. The Murder Collection Volume one is actually an anti-violence movie that asks us why we even want to see the sick violence that we are desensitized to because of the accessibility of the current media. It was actually spawned when Fred and crew were sent a real snuff film from Europe where a man was dragged to some train tracks and murdered with a screwdriver. Fred has said in interviews how disturbing this was to view and the ideas came flowing. I’ve never been able to watch the August Underground movies, but I did watch (actually listened to without the screen on) one with the commentaries and was able to hear the artistic vision behind the movies and understand, but still don’t want to see that shit. Now Mask Head, which I anticipated for months since I heard about it, is being deemed “torture porn.” First off, there is barely any nudity or sex in this movie. It’s a story about GREED and the dangers of being naïve when going to auditions. It’s actually done rather artistically and tastefully. The movie is very colorful and like nothing I’ve ever seen. I’ve met the Toetag crew who are a group of men and woman that are very nice people: generous and fun to hang out with. They make shocking movies, but good stuff. They are moviemakers and business people, and even look pretty average. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but these are nice people who are not perverts, but horror buffs and talented movie makers that can take a mini-budget and make it look better than a lot of multi-million dollar budget movies at times. Please know what the fuck you are talking about before bashing things. Have you seen Mask Head? Then watch it, come up with valid points, then come back and bash it and call everyone sick fucks and perverts. I assure you, my friends at Toetag are nothing like that. They love to make movies as much as I love to watch them.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:41 p.m. CST
by 5 by 5
"I suppose on the internet you should never be surprised by negativity, but I didn't expect all this bashing against the film. Especially since no one has seen it yet." <p> You are kidding right? You must be, because that's all most do here on a regular basis. Perhaps you're new here?<p> I'm with Smegma on this debate.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:48 p.m. CST
If you are trying to say in any way that your comments about screennames can equal the same level of disgust that is promoted by these type of films, you are on a losing argument. There isn't a word written that equates in terms of disgust that visuals of a woman being raped do, let alone a woman being raped with a weapon, or a woman being brutalised - or a man for that fact. Sorry, but you're trying to defend your comments with a non-existent argument there and it really shows. So in your life, my using a self-depracatingly humorous (whether you like the humour or not) screenname causes you as much disgust, or more, than seeing a woman raped onscreen? If that's the case, then you've proved everything I've said so far. Also you've failed to state why you enjoy these films. Their only purpose is to give vicarious thrills around the idea of brutalising another human - that's it. Trying to say Hostel has an underrated storyline simply doesn't wash, it's an underrated storyline for a very good reason - it doesn't have one. Shots of people being brought down corridors in different contexts does not equate to a story. So give us the reason you like this? You state ordinary horror films aren't your bag - fair enough. However stating you like these films because they're based on things that can really happen, Ok, I can see where you're coming from on that comment however you're having the exact opposite reaction to that fact than I, and evidently others on this site do. I know exactly the kinds of things that go on in real life....and that fact presented onscreen, graphically, does not entertaion, it sickens. That's it. To you, it's genuine entertainment however as you go back for more - so think about that and where your motivations are coming from. I have no idea who you are as a person, Cap, nor do you I - however if you have a genuine interest in these films to the point you come into a talkback and start insulting, out of nowhere, people who are voicing genuine concerns over the material - well, I'd say look to yourself before you try and criticise those who dislike them.
Oct. 17, 2009, 2:52 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... I know there are talkbackers who get all a-tingle in their weenies when they get to write angry screeds about me, and god forbid I steal any little pleasure from you, but the reason I'm not credited on the "Mask Head" box anywhere is because I DID NOT MAKE THIS MOVIE. Scott and I have been collaborators for many years, but we also are separate people, and Scott has an appetite for this dark, seedy end of the genre that I don't as a filmmaker. I'm actually sort of afraid to see "Mask Head." I know how warped Swan's imagination is, and I have had my copy here for two weeks, unplayed. Whatever you want to say about me or my work is fine, but Scott co-directed this with Fred Vogel, and he wrote the script himself. Credit where credit's due, folks.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST
... you're as far away from this pernicious sleaze as possible! And glad to read you're making that plain. <p> <p> With reference to the argument above about this stuff being equated with kiddie porn... Fine, this is all "fictional" and "harmless" (supposedly - although check the IMDB boards on Fred Vogel's flicks if you want to be worried about the folks who view his crap), and child porn is anything but, as any sane person would attest. <p> <p> Still, this brings to mind the time that horrible little fucktard Max Hardcore (never before on God's earth has a man tried so publicly to hide his homosexuality - yeah, I said it) was prosecuted for a scene in which an 18+ actress stated she was twelve years old. <p> <p> It's the same in this case: Just because it ISN'T real, the very fact some sleazy, damaged mind sees fit to simulate something so nasty, as realistically as possible, speaks volumes. <p> <p> For all those trying to legitimize the work of ToeTag and co, and telling us what a nice bunch of folks they are... fuck, my mother met the Yorkshire Ripper twice during his spree. Seemed like a nice quiet chap!
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:08 p.m. CST
Maskhead is a horror/comedy movie, full length, with no sex and very little nudity!!!!
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:10 p.m. CST
... there is no story or point in any of these films, nothing beyond a series of vignettes which, we are told, are "intended" to shock and disgust. Fuck that - I think we all know they're "intended" to titillate the wrong kind of mind. <p> <p> They are all a series of vignettes graphically portraying the brutal sexual degradation of women. It's not art. <p> <p> It's unfortunate that certain people can take advantage of cheap, pro-consumer filmmaking equipment, it has to be said.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST
... fair enough, my attacks have been aimed at the other Toetag productions as well as Maskhead itself. I'll take your word that there's no sex in it, as Harry himself said so. <p> <p> I'd be interested in exactly how it's a comedy though, if you could enlighten me. Seriously, I'm curious.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:15 p.m. CST
You've stated you only 'skimmed' my posts you're now basing arguments against - hence you missing my point entirely about mentioning kiddie porn alongside torture porn. Others evidently have read your comments and are now thinking I or others have equated the two. Read the posts. I didn't. I simply took Harry's comments about every film not being for every person, as if that's an excuse for these movies existence, to it's logical extreme. Of course CP is infinately worse, it involves real people and real suffering for crying out loud. The only parallel however is the 'minority audience' for each and the fact that to seek either out and enjoy them you have to be pretty questionable, to say the least. Enjoying the sights in a standard TP film is still a pretty sick thing, regardless of the fact it's unreal - and misconstruing the comments about CP and then trying to use that to make an argument on our side seem outlandish only shows your own faulty argument. If a person genuinely wants to see shit like women being gutted from the vagina, well, I'd say I'd like to see that person have a chat with a therapist.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST
... ie "porno couch interviews" reminds me of the reprehensible "Meatholes" porno series. By all means, look it up in IMDB but for fuck's sake don't watch it. I did see a clip my misadventure, and that was enough to want to "unsee" it. <p> <p> It's not acting. It's pretty much the closest thing to genuine rape and degradation that's probably legally available. It makes me queasy considering who exactly this shit is geared towards. It's only technically legal and the girls are all above the age of consent, paid, and supposedly told what's in store. For my money, that don't fucking cut it when one of the girls is begging for them to shut the camera off whilst being slapped, spat on, and brutally tag-teamed by two camera-wielding would-be-rapists. <p> <p> Sorry to make more of this "Maskhead"/"porno" tangent we've spun into. But I think it's valid. It treads (and in my view edges over) a very thin line between "staged" and "real"... believe me, that line is going to be crossed someday by the kinds of minds behind Toetag movies and their ilk.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST
I'm sorry, but you and the rest of the Moral Majority on this talkback started the personal attacks. Not content to state your disapproval with a particular genre, you go on to insult anyone who makes or watches extreme horror and assume you know their psychological profile. So yeah, I'm going to call you out on that shit. I enjoy a variety of different films and genres, but just because I liked Saw and Hostel that makes me some sick fuck who has women issues and gets off on the misery of others? Excuse me if I take issue with that sweeping generalization.<br> <br> Is it even worth my time to formulate a decent response? Are you open to accepting another point of view or are you just going to disregard anything I type and hold onto your beliefs? So far the argument about "torture porn" contributing to the downfall of society is about as sensible as the parents who thought Alice Cooper and Ozzy Osbourne were turning their children into devil worshippers. I haven't seen Mask Head or Human Centipede or Martyrs or whatever other tiny low-budget films you include under the "torture porn" label, but I see these movies as the successors to films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Last House on the Left, both of which you'd probably tear apart if we were having this conversation 30 years ago. If you don't like them, that's fine. I just don't see why you need to make yourselves feel morally superior by looking down from your high horse on people who enjoy movies you don't.<br> <br> For what it's worth, the most disturbing movie I saw recently was Raghead, or whatever it was called, with Aaron Eckhart molesting a young girl played by an actress who actually looks 13 or 14. I couldn't even finish watching it. Was that art?
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/yebbhwa<p>Enter THE RAPE TUNNEL my friends.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:35 p.m. CST
Sorry for the late reply. <p> No, I understood what you meant. What may have been unclear, however, was the way I phrased my post. My point was that even mentioning CP in the same breath as TP can lead to trouble. Witness this talkback, for instance. The TP defenders get all indignant over just being mentioned in the same talkback as CP. They come off sounding like the maltreated victims of a morally panicked PC police, thus obscuring the valid criticism of TP as a genre. <p> I understand your point and agree completely, but this talkback proves it's a losing proposition to bring up CP while discussing TP.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:39 p.m. CST
Is really just the new label for shit gore fest's. The trailer to this Maskhead makes it look shitter than Gutterballs, these things a juvenile shite for 14 year olds, the only redeeming thing I can see in these movies being made is the special effects angle.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:42 p.m. CST
...like to ignore the actual meaning of the term "torture porn" and focus solely on the "porn" aspect. They defend themselves by saying "You're insane, there was no nudity or sex in this film at all so how can it be porn?" <p> What everyone obviously knows is that the term is used because it so accurately describes the actual function of the gore in these movies. It's all about the unblinking depiction of what crosses taboo-laden boundaries. As explicit sex is in ordinary porn, so is the gore in torture porn -- the very reason for its existence. Anything in between is nothing but window dressing and a setup for the next scene of gore/sex. <p> Naturally most TP fans don't literally become sexually aroused or whack off to TP, but I guaran-goddamn-tee that the visceral thrill of gorging on gore scenes serves a similar function as the sex scenes do in porn.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT REAL. THEY'RE FICTIONAL MOVIES. Doesn't mean I want to watch real snuff films. That's like saying if you like war movies, you REALLY want to see actual documentary footage of real soldiers being blown apart. That argument makes no fucking sense.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:45 p.m. CST
...who thought Alice Cooper and Ozzy Osbourne were turning their children into devil worshippers." <p> The difference, Captain, being that none of us have called for any kind of banning of TP. Huge difference. TP fans can't seem to deal with critique of the genre. <p> At least regular porn fans admit why they watch it.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST
I think there's a definite delineation between the likes of "Hostel" and "Saw" and the kind of films being discussed here. <p> <p> As I said previously, "Hostel" and "Saw" and whatever else, at least purport to have a plot, protagonists, and a POINT. Does everyone like them? No. Are they going to cause the downfall of Western civilisation? Absolutely not. Personally, I thought "Hostel" was alright for what it was, but certainly not my idea of good horror. Showing graphic suffering and little else is the cheap and talentless way out of genuinely trying to unsettle your audience. <p> <p> The kind of films we're talking about simply exist to portray degradation and vile acts as realistically as possible. There is no dramatic catharsis or release, no payback, no morality however slight. <p> <p> It's just ugly, nihilistic and cruel. <p> <p> They are the very definition of "pornography" - something designed to titillate to the basest desires and devoid of any artistic merit whatsoever. <p> <p> That's not to say it's a definition I agree with, by the way! I'm no stranger to certain well-known websites, wink-wink nudge-nudge, but there are some places that are best left unseen, methinks!
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:51 p.m. CST
The most shocking movie ever for me, because reading up on the subject matter I found out all that shit happened for real, much, much worse things, and very little people seem to be aware of these horrific things that happened not to long ago.
Oct. 17, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST
I can't believe people really don't seem to get that.<p>
Oct. 17, 2009, 4 p.m. CST
http://tinyurl.com/5ze3eo<br> <br> This little ditty still rings true, even for the basest "torture porn" films. The draw of these movies is that, as viewers, we feel like we survived something intense without actually being in physical danger. It's not for everybody. It's the cinematic equivalent of a crazy-ass roller coaster ride or bungee jumping. I have no fucking clue why ANYBODY would pay money to be dropped from hundreds of feet in the air, but more power to 'em. It is kinda funny that the talkbackers who supposedly hate this stuff so much seem to know a lot more than anybody else about these films.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:01 p.m. CST
This movie takes the harshness that TTP is famous for and adds witty, often times funny dialogue, yes, offensive as well. When you watch the movie, which most of you bitching about it haven't, it's available a Toetag's webstore, you see the comedy element from the getgo. Before the opening title card is a sample commercial that the lesbians, Syl and Maddie, use to lure the actor/actresses/victims to their auditions. The commercial, which plays like an infomercial that could never be seen on an actual TV channel and sets up the entire movie, humor and all. Read the scroll going across the bottom. Note that the faux phone # is 18005KLITRS. That's funny shit to me. Throughout the movie, there are funny stints of dialogue. I loved the acting in it. Very natural. There are many situations that farce like as well. A ring getting lost somewere it shouldn't. A camera flash still on a disgusting image. It's dark comedy, but it's funny nonetheless. Not everyone will laugh, but I almost peed myself at times. My favorite movies are Knocked Up and Fight Club and True Romance, so it's not like I usually try to find sick shit like this. I love originality, and this is unique stuff.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:10 p.m. CST
...then how you can take them as a personal attack, like the ones you came into the talkback flinging, I'm not sure. Yes I'm quite open to discussion and a varied point of view - I'm not the one stating you aren't. Also trying to paint those who dislike the movies that fall under this genre as the 'moral majority' is somewhat absurd and belittles your own argument again - all you're doing is throwing out insults instead of valid criticism. There's a big difference in films that have edgy material and are actually saying something, and films that use edgy material solely to draw an audience and there most certainly is a line that can be crossed - that line may vary depending on the viewer, but in any sensible yardstick, graphic rape and brutalisation, graphic murder SOLELY for the purpose of 'entertainment' is, frankly, fucked in the head. I can't speak to the Aaron Eckhart movie you mention, but again - was that scene extended into various vignettes throughout the entire movie? Did it sensationalise that extended material? Or was it perhaps shot to disgust, and be part of an actual larger storyline? That's the difference between edgy material and thoroughly questionable material.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST
How many art films have you seen? Because most of the ones I've seen shy away from mainstream narratives that involve your usual story structure's use of plot, protagonist and point.<p> <p> In a lot of cases, that's even what makes them art films.<p> So how does that not make the torture films you refer to 'art'?<p> <p> If art is about conveying an emotion, then isn't low budget torture porn flicks more art film than anything made by, for example, Platinum Dunes or Fox?<p> <p> If Torture Porn films are "designed to titillate to the basest desires", then that's not the same as being "devoid of artistic merit" - it's the fucking definition of artistic merit. Isn't that why we listen to music?<p> <p> Just because the feeling conveyed in an artistic piece isn't pleasant, doesn't mean it's not art.<p> <p> Horror IS SUPPOSED to lack catharsis and release. That's the difference between the feeling of Horror and the feeling of Terror.<p> <p> There's an absolutely brilliant book for anyone who's interested called THE HORROR GENRE written by Paul Wells (it's in the Short Cuts book series, book #1) that deals with the psychology and history of horror both in litterature but mostly in movies. It's a great, great read and anyone who's writing a horror movie should read this.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST
by 5 by 5
Um, what is it about us not wanting to watch a film of a certain genre you don't get? I don't have to watch a movie about a 13 year old having sex to know I don't want to watch a 13 year old having sex. I don't want to watch a movie that simulates the brutalizing of women because I'm not interested in brutalizing women. I don't have to have seen this movie to think it's gross, disgusting, and worthless.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST
...who supposedly hate this stuff so much seem to know a lot more than anybody else about these films." <p> To me it would be worse debating a genre with someone who didn't know what the hell he was talking about.
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:16 p.m. CST
Thanks for that pdf link! If you got anything else on horror let me know!
Oct. 17, 2009, 4:53 p.m. CST
We know that the horrendous perverted acts (hopefully you would see them as such or you have massive issues to work out) depicted in torture porn are not real. They do, however, satisfy a need a small group of people have to see a human being debased, objectified, and tortured. Now, what if we could (and I'm sure we could) create realistic CGI children to be the victims of sexual abuse for that small population of people who want to see a human being debased, objectified, and tortured. We would know the acts depicted are not real, but they would satisfy a twisted need that some people have. Could we then explain it away, call it a genre, and simply say it's not everyone's cup of tea? Could we call it art?
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:02 p.m. CST
There is a lot of talk about our new TTP movie here. If you are interested in bearing witness to this wonderful movie come visit our Webstore at http://www.toetagpictures.com/webstore/ and pick up a copy. Then come back here and make love to it in words or hate it by bashing it. I could bash the movie Jennifer's Body if I wanted to, but I didn't see it yet, so after I do I will or I won't if I like it.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:17 p.m. CST
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:17 p.m. CST
I'm bashing the genre it exists in. I won't be seeing your film so can't comment on it directly, but it evidently - and from it's trailer and description - panders to the tortureporn crowd.....well done. Way to reach for the heights. And so you know, from someone who saw it - Jennifer's Body sucked big time. Save your money.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:19 p.m. CST
That's a pretty fucking twisted analogy, and AGAIN assumes that anybody watching these movies is getting a sexual rush. Could anyone provide a list of these "torture porn" films you're all referencing? Are they that bad? How have you seen them if you hate them so much? Seriously, I keep fairly current on the horror scene and I have no idea what we're talking about.<br> <br> Some of you really seem to like thinking about kiddie porn, though. It's a bit weird.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST
Did you read the link I posted? And what films depict "graphic rape" that you've seen?
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST
Look, the way you're reading into these films is a lot like the whole Video Nasties debate in the 80s that led to the ban of movies like TCM in a lot of countries and horror films just doesn't work that way.<p> <p> The specific content in horror films have nothing to do with real life. Watching a film where someone gets killed does not make you want to watch someone get killed in real life. Violence is caused by agression and if you have pent up agression it might make you want to do violent acts, just like it might make you prone to enjoy violent video games and movies. But enjoying violent videogames and movies doesn't make you agressive and so it doesn't make you want to do violent acts in real life.<p> <p> See the difference?<p> <p> If you watch someone tortured in a film, that doesn't make you want to watch someone tortured in real life.<p> <p> I'm sure most people who enjoy these films do it because they're sick of the suspense filled asian horror films. Personally, I don't enjoy many of them. But I do respect the genre, and I think Martyrs was absolutely brilliant. I also liked The Poughkeepsie Tapes.<p> <p> The great thing about a lot of these films is that they go where even most horror films don't.<p> <p> And isn't that the whole point of watching horror? The unease comes from the fact feeling of the characters aren't safe, and nowadays you really have to dig deep to defy convention and create that feeling of unease.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:35 p.m. CST
And not to bash, but do people who enjoy these movies, enjoy watching the real things online ala 3 men and a Hammer, etc?<p> I've seen Banned in America and shit like that when I was younger, yea it was sick, I like to think I did it to see if I could handle witnessing something like those things happening in real life, and I honestly don't know if I could. The 3 men in a hammer vid I could only watch a bit, because just reading the story of those fuckers fills me with rage, which then explains a quote from the excellent pdf link CaptainAxis posted above<p>"The potential lyncher is in almost all of us."
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:51 p.m. CST
Do you watch Bruce Lee movies or MMA fights on TV because you enjoy watching people fight on the street? Or do you watch Michael Bay movies because you enjoy blowing shit up in your backyard?<p> <p> No you don't. Movies are movies, real life is real life. Sane people keep those things sepparate.<p> If you enjoy blowing shit up or watching people fight on the street, you have bigger issues caused by real life events that have made you that way. People like that tend to also enjoy those types of films too, but they're a small percentage and the films are not the cause of it.
Oct. 17, 2009, 5:54 p.m. CST
But I've read your posts about working with a "writing partner" and so can't accept your tepid disavowal of this sick crap. "Credit where credit is due" my ass - you guys have Harry shilling this front and center. Harry's explanation that this review appears due to a mere confluence of circumstances is laughable: "But I wrote the review because I had friends locally that wanted to know how Scotty's film was and rather than have 28 separate conversations, I decided to just write my thoughts down here. The film has actually played at a couple of Horror Conventions I believe. I did see this yesterday, and it is October - which means... I'm supposed to review Horror things. Right?" This is absurd. Harry claims to have only muddy and incomplete knowledge of the creation and distribution of this film ("I don't believe it has a release scheduled", "The film has actually played at a couple of Horror Conventions I believe", etc.), yet pops out a review within 24 hours of its viewing. And he additionally claims that he would certainly have covered it in his regular DVD column had a release been scheduled, but, because he allegedly is in the dark, he gave the film a prized front and center review for the benefit of the 28 people he thinks might be interested. Despite his generally tepid review, Harry stresses his selling points: "repulsively perverse", "push your further than you expect", "debauched", "sick", "disturbing", "stomach turning", "so awful", "tremendously fucked up", etc., etc., etc. (Which can be essentially distilled to "It will fuck you up for life!") And of course, the film certainly deserves the spotlight, doesn't it? Harry says, "The film is cool in how it accomplishes exactly what it set out to do." And, what, exactly, is its intention? To pander to freaks who get hard at the thought of a knife-ravaged vagina. Nice. "It has limited production values given its non-existent budget, but Scott manages to get some interesting performances out of a cast, that I'm completely unfamiliar with." Yep. Nothing classes up a cheap crapfest like "interesting performances" from an unknown cast. Harry seemingly denies the existence of torture porn: "For me, the "Torture Porn" genre is not Porn. When I watch a film like MASKHEAD, I am not titillated, I'm not giddy." But porn isn't designed to make its audience "titillated" or "giddy." It is specifically created to arouse the viewer to a desire for climax. The term "torture porn" is perfectly appropriate for the genre, and nothing could make it make this clearer than the structure of this movie itself. I won't bore you with a discussion of the obvious similarities between a film like this and "Gangbang Auditions 5". But if you can't see the similarity, you probably shouldn't be watching either. This is the truth: if Drew's PARTNER becomes a little better known, a little more successful, a little more celebrated through this film, then Drew himself is a beneficiary. And he knows it. And so does Harry. Who, of course, also benefits from any additional success on the part of his occasional contributor, Moriarty. But I'm sure that Harry, and Drew, and Fred Vogel and Scot Swan have only limited interest in lucre. As Harry explains, their interest is unselfish, and socially redeeming: "In many ways, this film would be something I would show my hot young daughter before she moved to California to demonstrate why you never know what may happen by answering an add that seems to be for porn." Thanks, Harry and company, for looking out for all of our hot young daughters.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6 p.m. CST
by 5 by 5
Nobody is saying that these movies are the cause of anything. And yes if you want to watch ultra-realistic movies depicting human torture there's something wrong with you.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST
I suppose "enjoy" is the wrong choice of word I meant really seek out and watch those things regularly. I wasn't going down the route of saying that people who like these movies act them out though. And I personaly think watching some MMA fights are as bad as watching it on the street, not all but some.<p>
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:10 p.m. CST
by drew mcweeny
... believe what you want. I have 100% nothing to do with "Mask Head". I'm glad Scott got to fulfill a lifelong goal of his, which was to make a horror film in Pittsburgh, where he's originally from, and he did so without any input from me. I don't benefit from this film's success or failure at all. Scott and I have very different tolerance levels for this sort of stuff, and he is absolutely comfortable going places on film that I never would. <P>I haven't read the script. I haven't seen the movie. I've never met Fred Vogel. You haven't seen me pushing "Mask Head" on HitFix because that's an obvious conflict of interest for me. I'm not sure why you think Harry would be doing this for my benefit, since I'm not an AICN employee anymore. I haven't published a piece here since the spring, and my only dealings with Harry now are as friends when I see him online or in Austin. <P>But by all means... peddle your sweaty conspiracy fantasy a bit more. I find that the people who are most vocal about collusion and corruption are the ones who would absolutely abuse a public platform if they had one.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:39 p.m. CST
I remember when a lot of the losers who champion shit like this movie or Eli Roth's "contributions to cinema" went off on "The Passion of The Christ" calling it vile and repulsive and yes, Torture Porn.<p>Guess it's okay if you torture and murder a girl with beautiful perky breasts but it's trash when you torture and murder a Jewish carpenter.<p>Jackasses.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:50 p.m. CST
I'm sorry, I just watched the trailer, and it looks like someone took a 13 year old kid who kills squirrels and jerks off all day, and said, "Here's 12 bucks kid, make a movie!"<p>not everyone with a DVX100, a couch, and a couple of borderline mentally-handicapped chicks from Pittsburgh who think they are actresses should make a movie. <p>I don't mind a film pushing the envelope, any envelope, but if it's just about being as disgusting as possible, with no story, horrible acting, horrible everything, what's the point?<p>ugh, I'm so glad Drew had nothing to do with this garbage.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:53 p.m. CST
I see enough of people's shittier sides at work, I don't need to see even worse depictions for 'entertainment'. I gave 'torture porn' movies a go when they were starting to gain favour, before the term was even coined and they were simply new horror flicks, saw a couple and was so put off by the damned things I'm not about to pollute myself again. As to graphic rape, you've already had someone in this talkback stating they've seen the film - and that a graphic vaginal rape with barbed wood occurs....now I doubt they meant 'graphic' as in you see everything or that it's even hugely realistic...it's the intent behind it and the way these things are shot that can be graphic. Also movies have been pushing the envelope for what can be seen these days....look at mainstream cinema, it is moving toward more graphic representations all the time, real or simulated. The last thing that's needed is the producers of shitfests like this lowering the bar even further to the point where a film is simply murder and misery shown in the sickest possible detail, with no other reason for it than to be a series of 'money shots'. As to arguments since about 'people watch violent films, don't go out and commit violence', yep, fair point. Most people do have a disconnect between entertainment and real life, thank fuck. Some don't however, and there have indeed been cases of people influenced by movies going out and committing violence and murder. I thoroughly believe those people had it in them to begin with - but that doesn't excuse the trigger being pulled by certain stimulus. These movies certainly appeal more to those kinds of people, the ones who think idly about killing, raping etc but don't have the guts to carry it out only because of societal norms - the kinds who hang out at ogrish.com or who google execution videos for kicks. There are fucked up people out there, and these films pander to them - if you deny that, you're kidding yourself. Does it mean any of them are going to run out and rape a woman with a baseball bat and razorwire? Probably not, but that doesn't vindicate this shit at all - the fact that it doesn't cause people to go out and cause atrocity is hardly a point in it's favour. You can bet at least 50% of the audience for this shit would like to, though.
Oct. 17, 2009, 6:57 p.m. CST
Yep right up there with the phonecalls between JFK and Krushchev, or rather a piece of shit movie some frat looking fuckstick made of people torturing others. Real contribution to humanity!
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:07 p.m. CST
...profound and probably futile hope that we will one day look back at the current slew of TP as merely being an interesting, distasteful aberration, a convulsive cinematic response to our first lurching steps into mass information society, where authentic depictions of the most appalling acts imaginable are only a few mouse clicks away. <p> Alas, I fear it's nothing of the kind and the more saturated our society becomes with easily-accessed, online monstrosities, the more depraved the movies will become and the more desensitized people will become.
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:25 p.m. CST
GAG. Fuck this shit and this genre.
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:39 p.m. CST
And film it. And who 'write' it. Yeah I mean you Eli Roth and fuckhead Swan and whomever else. Gimme a break. Let's get our rocks off on brutalizing women. Let's pretend it's okay 'cuz it's a fantasy. Yeah fuck you.
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:46 p.m. CST
it's just drawing the line from obvious Point A to self-evident Point B. BTW, I think you must agree that I never said you had anything whatsoever to do with the creation and distribution of the film. My point was merely that you stand to benefit from any glow of success which attaches to your "frequent collaborator." Similarly, if the film is properly greeted as poisonous dogshit, your ability to make money with Mr. Swan might well be compromised. So, sure, if I was you, I'd absolutely be doing everything I could to distance myself from this radioactive dreck. And, to the exent you've been broadsided by your writing PARTNER, I tend to feel sorry for you. Again, however, Harry's heralding of this garbage would seem to be inexplicable as anything but marketing. (Of course, if I was really conspiracy-minded I might guess that he is just trying to fuck with you...)
Oct. 17, 2009, 7:52 p.m. CST
Mainstream cinema has pushed the margins towards things that would never have got past the censors, even in the heyday of the 70's experimentation and exploitation films. That's a good thing for most films - but where it comes to these seedy abominations, it most certainly isn't - they're just going to get worse and worse in an effort to outdo their rivals. Imagine that. Seven screwed with people's minds over a decade ago by NOT showing the horrific, for the most part. Now there are movie makers who not only want to show you the kniferape, they want to make entire movies about that kind of thing. What's going to be hitting DTV ten years from now?
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:02 p.m. CST
Drew, you say, "I don't benefit from this film's success or failure at all." This is obviously untrue, and you know it. Getting known and maintaining a good reputation in the industry is the largest part of the job of a writer, performer, etc. You say you haven't read the script and haven't seen the movie. Why not? This is your partner's dream project. Are you negligent? Uncaring? Strapped for time? You say you haven't seen the movie. I can believe this, but i think its a case of "I couldn't finish it." Not because it was so transgressive, but because you thought its epic badness was contagious. You say, "You haven't seen me pushing "Mask Head" on HitFix because that's an obvious conflict of interest for me." Well, how could you push it if you haven't even bothered to view it? Seriously, these arguments aren't merely specious, their insulting. Finally, you say, "I'm not sure why you think Harry would be doing this for my benefit, since I'm not an AICN employee anymore. I haven't published a piece here since the spring, and my only dealings with Harry now are as friends when I see him online or in Austin." There is no "sweaty conspiracy fantasy." It is undeniable that everyone at your end will benefit should this film succeed - if, for instance, your PARTNER is acclaimed the "future of horror," etc. Like it or not, you're all in the same proverbial boat - You, Harry, Fred, the folks who like women best when they're bleeding, etc. And I'm not the one who is sweating.
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:08 p.m. CST
Your comment that "I find that the people who are most vocal about collusion and corruption are the ones who would absolutely abuse a public platform if they had one." Ironically, I find that the people who most often hyperventilate about censorship and the value of transgressive "art" are the first to call for the silencing of any criticism of their soul-killing enthusiasms.
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:28 p.m. CST
... that this whole talkback is pretty much the most reasoned, informative, intelligent and thoughtful we've had here in quite some time on the whole... and it's all about the most idiotic, juvenile, meritless piece of shit imaginable. <p> <p> I feel almost guilty for even spending time thinking and writing about a piece of garbage spewed from the minds of a bunch of stunted adolescents. <p> <p> I've always defended horror in the face of short-sighted holier-than-thou moral outrage. I live in the UK, where they BURNED COPIES OF CHILD'S PLAY 3 IN THE STREETS when a newspaper blamed it for the Jamie Bulger murder - conveniently forgetting the little kids who committed the act had NEVER SEEN THE FUCKING THING. I was the kid in the class who got a bus to a comic store to buy Fangoria and Gorezone every month, and freaked my classmates out and drew pictures of Freddy and Jason. <p> <p> I'll defend horror against charges of turning law-abiding decent people into monsters any day. <p> <p> But this ... Maskhead, August Underground, Vomit Dolls, the rest of it... it's a means to its own end. Showing the unthinkable. No narrative. No meaning other than to build up to the "money shot". <p> <p> I know how hypocritical this sounds - but this shit is just NASTY and shouldn't be made or seen.
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:30 p.m. CST
jesus christ man, did you watch the trailer for this thing? it looks like it was made for like 12 dollars. do you really think the difference between 50 people seeing it and 75 people seeing it is going to have ANY effect on Drew's career?<p>god, some people love to get all indignant for no reason. why on earth do you care so much? it's a movie where a guy fucks someone with a spiky wooden dick, you're acting like you just broke the Watergate scandal. calm the hell down.
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:36 p.m. CST
... if you ARE one of the poor misguided souls who fancies sitting through this shit, DOWNLOAD IT FOR FREE. <p> <p> DON'T give these fuckers any of your hard-earned. You'll only encourage them. <p> <p> Tom Savini fired Fred Vogel's ass for being a total fuck-up. And when Savini - a guy who trailblazed gore for the rest to follow, who's on record as talking about the serious, real-world horror and atrocity he saw in Vietnam, is telling you you're a fucking freak....
Oct. 17, 2009, 8:40 p.m. CST
... Whatever the reasons are, whatever our arguments here, I'm actually disappointed and somehow depressed that Harry's acknowledged this flick's existence.
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST
Same goes for latter day ANOES and Halloween I'd say. Or Murder Porn at least. Hell, 24 is Torture Porn at its finest! If you want to talk about being entertained and enjoying a death/torture scene, its the movies where people are rooting for Jason/Freddy/Myers/Bauer to fuck with those stupid teens/stupid terrorists and give everyone something to talk about afterwards "oh, that was a sweet kill!" <br><br> I actually enjoy Hostel and Saw, but in those ones I'm actually hoping that everyone gets the hell away (although Jigsaw is kind of edging into anti-hero Movie Monster territory like Freddy and all of them). They're disturbing and I'm glad when they're over. That French flick, La Intre or whatever it was is another one. Brutal stuff, and it worked well, but I haven't been able to convince myself to watch it any time again. <br><br> I think what that person said about equating a horror movie to a rollercoster is true. I don't find nihilistic flicks like Hostel entertaining (barring the protagonist revenge part) but for some reason I'm drawn to them, in a "yepp, i survived that" kind of way. Evidenced in the amount of time I come back to them (usually only when someone else wants to watch them).
Oct. 17, 2009, 9:52 p.m. CST
I'm not going anywhere near this Toe Tag stuff. I had a read up about it, and I don't think I'd be able to stomach it.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:02 p.m. CST
I stand by my statement that these types of movies are for 40yr old pussies and frustrated teen boys; but lets not get carried away here by talk of "banning" the making of this.</p><P>These movies are no more responsible for peoples actions than a belief in Robin Hood is an excuse to commit robbery. Chances are sick fuckers will do sick shit regardless of some movie which will most likely be seen by less than 1k people.</p><p>We, as film fans, and generally open minded people; should NEVER talk about banning, or giving away our rights to some unseen detached impersonal, usually corrupt and self righteous government types...that leads down a nasty path where in something of true artistic worth, that happens to offend the wrong people, will be black listed or never made.</p><p> Sure Torture Porn sucks, and it appeals to people who sit around and watch Faces of Death, and Snipers popping peoples heads like water balloons on Rotten.com for kicks, but never should we ask or hint at banning. Just vote with your pocket books and opinions people...lets keep the REAL villains out of this.
Oct. 17, 2009, 10:13 p.m. CST
Welcome to the Barely Legal Snuff Film Forum with your host, Harry the aging fanboy. Seriously, why is this up for consideration on this site?
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:55 a.m. CST
Kids, don't be afraid to reach for the stars...
Oct. 18, 2009, 2:16 a.m. CST
who grins and hits someone in the head with a bat? I wonder if he couldn't get over his daddy issues as a youngster. Creepy seedy people, sad it's these guys who are given money to make this for mass consumption.
Oct. 18, 2009, 2:58 a.m. CST
I can't wait for Toe Tag to put out Sock Foot or Glove Hand! Seriously though, this movie looks like a big piece of cheap shit. Harry, what the fuck man? Of all the movies you DIDN'T review this year, you take the time to let us know what you think of this? I've got a JVC handy-cam too. If I make a shitty gore flick and send you the dvd, will you review it for me?
Oct. 18, 2009, 6:16 a.m. CST
It seesm to me that you and your associates (Moriarty especially) are permanently stuck in a testosterone fuelled, self interested, self important adoloescence from which you are never going to escape.
Oct. 18, 2009, 7:02 a.m. CST
is kinda weird, but I have to admit that the first one really get a strong stroooong reaction out off me. But as someone said earlier, I was hoping for the guy to survive this shit and really dreaded the gore. When he got his revenge at the end I really felt with him and that was a great achievment for the movie. and lets not forget it haters... Hostel had a great structure (kinda like audition) and a story. So, for me it wasn't all about the gore. It was about hoping to see the protagonist coming out on top! This other "torture porn" stuff, I believe, has no story at all and very little emotion except waiting for the gore to happen. Its just gory for the sake of gore and thats something I don't need to see. Like guinea pig. I don't need that. Thats torture porn for me. Films like L'interieur or Hostel are strong gory stuff but it still has some story in front of the gore.
Oct. 18, 2009, 9 a.m. CST
this thread is going to be an AICN classic. I don't know about the movie Harry, but some of the comments here made me queasy.
Oct. 18, 2009, 9:50 a.m. CST
Bringingsexyback is one of the women.
Oct. 18, 2009, 10:11 a.m. CST
"movies" like this aren't movies at all. They are a masturbatory aid for sick fucking minds.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:27 a.m. CST
Seeing how I'm not, I think I'll pass.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:31 a.m. CST
How can you bash something you haven't seen? I never watched Lord of the Rings, but I don't get on these talkbacks critisizing what I don't know. Those of you who are saying that MASKHEAD isn't a movie at all or is a masturbatory aid for sick fucking minds and haven't even seen it are being very unfair to those who put their blood, heart, and soul into making a good movie. This movie is a movie, it's art, it has meaning, but you all have never seen it. So shut the fuck up and watch the movie then come back and bash it. This is quite unnerving that society, escpecially you fat fucks still living in Pappy's basement with nothing better to do but bash something you don't even know about. Then someone you know will tell you how great it is and you'll check it out and become a bonefide hypocrite and be all like "oooh, Freddy Vogel I wants suck your big dick daddy!" But he won't let you, because who knows where that mouths been (probably not anywhere near any woman before.)
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:32 a.m. CST
"Tolerating" seems the right word to use. Reading Harry's review, it does come across that he watched it and wrote that piece despite himself. If it weren't for its connection, however tenuous, to himself (and I'm not sure I buy his "actual" reasoning behind reviewing it) there's no way this site would be covering it. It seems, reading between the lines, the fact his 'associate' is behind this effluence is stopping him shy of saying what he really thinks.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:34 a.m. CST
by Rocco Curioso
Indeed, sir. The malady you speak of is known as Kevin Smith Syndrome. There is no known cure as of yet.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:38 a.m. CST
Always amazing how your kind, the "open minded" ones immediately resort to calling people "fat fucks in Pappy's basement", talking about "sucking dicks" and not being near a woman before. <p> <p> Grow the fuck up. Being involved and/or watching this shit and convincing yourself it's "art" pretty much amounts to a huge fucking neon sign pointing at YOU as the frustrated, stunted adolescent you are. <p> <p> And yes, a few of us here DO know what we're talking about. We've seen the trailers, clips and/or read enough to fucking know, ok? <p> <p> Don't tell me a "movie studio" (yeah right) which sells a higher-price version of one of its shitty products as the "Ultimate SNUFF Edition!!!!" is anything but a giant unwanted boil on the ass of cinema.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:41 a.m. CST
Alright I'll bite. Enlighten us. What IS the story behind "Maskhead"? What IS the "point"? The moral? The message? I'm all ears. <p> <p> And before you tell me to buy it for myself - Toetag DVDs are seized by UK customs, so I'm not wasting my money.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:43 a.m. CST
Nov issue, page 19. Perhaps everyone should hate on that now too.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:44 a.m. CST
... or as much of it as I wanted to... take out the actual reprehensible content - and this is still BARELY a movie. It's cheap, shoddy, amateurish, badly acted, badly executed, poorly directed crap. <p> <p> Fair enough, I haven't got a script (though I doubt these guys had, really), or a camera or a crew, so I'm not the one making movies, just the one sat here criticising - so maybe these guys win by default. <p> <p> Whatever.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:48 a.m. CST
That is a good question. ToeTag makes movies to disturb and provoke the viewer. Spreading the Sickness is the motto. I believe it means if you understand what we are doing here, help us express it to a grand audience. The movies are meant to make you think for days to come, to burn an imprint in your memory that is everlasting. They are not intended to beat off to. This is one of the reasons MASKHEAD has limited nudity. It is not about the sex. It's not about killing GIRLS, their are many male casualties as well. The movie's about the deranged girls and their sick little plaything. It's about GREED in this society where porn is everywhere, practically on primetime TV lately. This is not torture porn, nor is this TTP's outlet for their twisted desires. Fred and crew want to make good movies that make everlasting impressions.
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:49 a.m. CST
What kinda mention is it? A review or what?
Oct. 18, 2009, 11:57 a.m. CST
You say that these movies are "not intended to beat off to". Fair enough. But surely, as you yourself say that these images are designed to burn an imprint into your brain (the kind of thing we wish we could "un-see"), that they are designed to disturb and provoke, with little-to-no emphasis on telling a story, how more "fragile" minds - the kind who DO buy these flims, check the IMDb boards - could become totally desensitised to such atrocity. <p> <p> I believe this is why people are drawing the correlation between these moves and porno. Regular, whack-off porn material is all about the immediate image on-screen, with very little deeper meaning or lead-in set-up. It is designed to provoke an immediate response. <p> <p> No one is saying there is ACTUAL sexual violence in these films - but it is simulated to an unnervingly realistic degree.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:06 p.m. CST
"The movies are meant to make you think for days to come, to burn an imprint in your memory that is everlasting." <p> That entire post was the most ludicrous, fatuous and insulting selling argument I've ever seen. You make gore porn for an audience of sensation-lusting cretins and nothing more. People like you relish the fact that more and more real snuff footage is becoming available online because it increases the appetites of your idiot demographic. <p> You're nothing but a fucking troglodyte selling the destilled concoction of an entire generation's lowest common denominators. You disgust me more than the entire genre does.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:30 p.m. CST
... only because, in the interests of actually providing a reasoned argument without going off on one about something we know nothing about, we watched the trailer / read the reviews / IMDb forum postings. <p> <p> I don't need to watch the whole thing to know SHIT when I see it.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST
Diezel, your posts are ridiculous, self-serving tripe. People may well have worked hard on the movie but that doesn't mean it's any good, or deserving of respect. You're making films with hat-tip only attempts at storyline simply to string along a bunch of images, designed as you admit to disturb. The problem is, the kinds of people readily exposing themselves to this kind of film aren't the ones who get 'disturbed' by it, by and large - they're ones who seek that kind of film, image, experience. You're not doing anything as magnificent as you seem to think for the cinema zeitgeist, all you're doing is lowering standards even further and pandering to people who really should be pandered to. Oh, and RedHorseVector, you do make me chuckle. Because you don't like my posts, you make out I'm an amoral person by intimating I'm a hypocrite to dislike this kind of thing. Amusing. So anyone who has a disagreement with you has no sense of morals or a right to comment on anything? Get a life, muppet.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:33 p.m. CST
You're right. These films are little known, and shouldn't provoke such lengthy debate. They should remain in the collections of misguided individuals, and in the lower reaches of fan forums. <p> <p> The fact his, Harry has miguidedly slapped this one front-and-centre at the top of a geek site. <p> <p> I'm GLAD its provoked such a response. It's actually a credit to most of us here and proves we're NOT all a bunch of "basement-dwellers" and "troglodytes" who think that violence for violence's sake is "kewl".
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST
hear about Texas Chainsaw, Friday the 13th, and every other slasher film made when I was growing up.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:39 p.m. CST
The reason some of us connected the dots between Toetag products and violent "rough" porn is because many of the fans' postings I read, concerning these movies, mentioned and in some cases LINKED DIRECTLY to some shitty, nasty, borderline-rape smut. <p> <p> I fear for the 13-year old who thinks Maskhead and its ilk is "badass" and "cool" and within a few clicks is getting into shit that is really beyond the pale - and far more real. <p> <p> I do not class myself any kind of moral crusader. Each to their own. But there are limits. And Diezel and his fellow defenders are not doing anything to convince me to the contrary. In fact they're digging deeper holes.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:44 p.m. CST
I'd say that the criticisms of Freddy, Jason, and the rest, we're actually quite different. <p> <p> There was no question that the violence shown was cartoonish, stylised, and unrealistic. The worry was, for the high-horse moral "champions", that those films implied that violence was quick, easy and somehow "funny". They were misguidedly convinced that our poor impressionable young would end up seeing such acts as almost "harmless". <p> <p> This is quite the reverse. The criticism here is that these films REVEL in and virtually CELEBRATE concentrated and extremely realistic scenes of suffering, degradation, and death. <p> <p> It is pandering to a very worrying demographic.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:45 p.m. CST
I am amazed that anyone can watch Hostel and not see that yes, it does indeed have a point. It draws clear parallels between human exploitation and trafficking for entertainment, and the callous disregard the backpackers have for the women they come across, and the activities and attitudes of the Elite Hunting Club. This doesn't make the film above criticism, and certainly the level of violence shown is fair game, but anyone who says the film is mindless and pointless simply isn't paying attention.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:51 p.m. CST
Completely. Deizel you are a POS, you make Shit, you push Shit, you sell shit, you ARE shit. Fuck off.
Oct. 18, 2009, 12:59 p.m. CST
.. Indeed, well put. I think that's the most troubling thing here. We all KNOW this crap is out there these days. We all KNOW the kind of minds it's made for, and by, and is picked up by. <p> <p> The most troubling thing is a site like this drawing attention to it. <p> <p> This kind of product has no place beside stories about Green Lantern and Thor.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:04 p.m. CST
I love you too, sweetheart.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST
Think I wiil take a break from this site. I mean really pushing this kind of tripe Harry? Watching this type of tripe? And calling this Art? Hahahhah. O.K.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:20 p.m. CST
a few days ago. Alittle slow at times, but definitely a beautiful story. 'Maskhead' sounds alittle on the "meh" side. "It's extremely fucked up", "Hard to watch", "stomach-churning", are all phrases used to describe every p.o.s straight-to-dvd turd on the shelves at Blockbuster (I'm pretty sure that's what the place is called?) If you're going to pimp your boy's flick, Harry, I need more meat on the bones. And that twat waffle called IMDB isn't jerking me the way I want either.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:26 p.m. CST
... Seems most are wanting a valid reason (not the reason put in your review) why this is on your site.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:49 p.m. CST
Plain pure and simple. <p> Thing is---I'd be all for it if the guy had written or made something worthwhile-but this sounds like bargain basement nasty garbage. There's not much reason to watch it unless you are into the lowest common denominator level shite.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST
You're a shill Harry and we all know it. Paranormal Activity, which schools this torture porn shit six ways to Sunday, barely gets a mention here while you jerk off your buddies endlessly. Truth be told, you don't even understand the genre, which is why you've endorsed such dreck as Hatchet, Drag Me to Hell, and many others. Just because something is nasty and gory doesn't make it scary and the fact that your little bitch-buddy doesn't understand the difference makes him yet another hack horror wannabe. The genre seriously doesn't need any more of this type of crap.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:51 p.m. CST
"im pissed i even know this exists". i feel exactly the same! the whole idea that a company makes a ton of these films disturbs me.
Oct. 18, 2009, 1:59 p.m. CST
I'm just sick of seeing talentless shits get money to make garbage that has nothing to offer outside of gore and sadism. That isn't horror and it never was. This genre is capable of turning out films that can address social taboos and explore the darker regions of human fear yet all we seem to get is gore and lame-ass Japanese remakes.
Oct. 18, 2009, 2:02 p.m. CST
by Fixthe Fernback
Check out IMDB entry for Murder Collection Volume 1: <P> (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1471348/)<P> Look at the first review ooo its diezel!.. but now click on his name..TippyDavis?? Wtf! So Tippy is Diezel!
Oct. 18, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST
Diezel/Tippy, you fucking loser. You actually posted under two names in order to rally support for your shit? <p> What a fucking tool.
Oct. 18, 2009, 2:52 p.m. CST
Fuck me. Posting under two names? Brilliant.
Oct. 18, 2009, 3:34 p.m. CST
Well, it seems like this is a fucked up movie, in the vein of the Toetag flicks. Here's a story that I'm borrowing from Walt Flanagan and Bryan Johnson (the Fanboy and Steve-Dave from the View Askew Flicks). They carried movies like the Toetag flicks, and erotic comics at their comic store (the original store, not the Stash) and this creepy fuck would come in, wearing gloves, pawing their erotic comics. When he bought a VHS flick of a girl being abducted and raped, shot in the Toetag style, he was back, panting for shit like that...more of that.<p>That's the guy who ends up hunting humans. These flicks are the logical extension of people who are inured to the horror genre. People who don't flinch in the sight of gore, and need to break social mores to get that sick feeling of horror in their stomachs.<p>Shit, man, Last House on the Left? That's some fucked up shit. A rape and disemboweling in the swamp that's all kinds of fucked up.<p> True crime/abduction/torture stories captivate now, because we're coming back into an age of cynicism, we've seen it all. We need something as fucked up as Vietnam to make us understand that the shit we imagine is BULLSHIT compared to reality.<p>Horror's on its last leg, because it's plateauing toward the fucked up real things we do, and meshing with the fucked up things we see when we have bad dreams. Is this flick fucked up? Yeah. Will I see it? Nah. Snuff flicks ain't my speed. I still get revolted by Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer's opening moments. It's TOTALLY fucked up. And that's enough for me.
Oct. 18, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST
nice one tehdude!!! so that makes a total of one person in this TB defending this movie...the guy that made it :-) fellow geeks i salute you for your similar moral compasses. these fucks can stay in the margins making shit for fuck ups like themselves.
Oct. 18, 2009, 3:43 p.m. CST
...the shared distinction between horror and this shit is actually really heart-warming :-)
Oct. 18, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST
I want to make a Horror Is... series of posters with those two weird little kids from the 'Love Is' posters from the seventies...<p> Is Hostel 'horror'? Sure, man. Is 'Maskhead'? Yeah, sure. So's a bunch of other shit, but my point is that I don't like the seedy fucking half-assed videotaped simulated snuff flick.<p>I saw 'Poughkeepsie Tapes'. It was too much in the way of shitty setups for odd footage. There are better ways to frame these types of simulated snuff flicks than the Poughkeepsie Tapes did, but this seems like it's got nothing other than kills, and fucked up situations.<p>Is it art? I don't know, is that flick by George McFly "art"? Who the fuck knows? I just know that there seems to be a thinner and thinner line between 'simulated snuff' and 'actual snuff' flicks.<p>There's a BBC doc on Snuff, where Eli Roth talks about the realities of Snuff films...which basically states that shit like Hostel doesn't happen. Yet. And the fact that we all find it morally fucked means it's not likely to happen in reality.
Oct. 18, 2009, 4:47 p.m. CST
When the filmmakers are diddling their dicks looking at how realistic someone's thumb is hanging by a few threads. I mean i drew gory comics as a kid but in my 20s even that is total nonsense and yet there are grown up people who sit down and actually think about this stuff and write it down. Scary world.
Oct. 18, 2009, 5:45 p.m. CST
Oct. 18, 2009, 5:52 p.m. CST
I just love it and support it.
Oct. 18, 2009, 6:03 p.m. CST
Virtually the only support for this sick shit you've found on this sites audience has been from yourself. Why don't you go and peddle this type of thing at Ogrish or other similar sites - I'm sure the types hanging out there will appreciate you and your friends 'work' more.
Oct. 18, 2009, 6:18 p.m. CST
by 5 by 5
Fucking sock puppet biotch.
Oct. 18, 2009, 6:29 p.m. CST
Oct. 18, 2009, 9:15 p.m. CST
this TB has certainly become inflamed, hasn't it? here's the thing: we all know that Harry is indeed pitching this for his/his friends' own purposes. the whole, "it's october, so i should be reviewing horror flicks, right?" is nonsense...fortunately, he's left THAT duty to Quint, who is faithful every year with his HMAD stuff (always enjoyable, by the way). i agree with most of you who feel that this type of sleaze is for weirdos that are probably on the verge of perpetrating this type of shit on their own, living out fantasies vicariously through others warped minds. however, i also feel that "artists" (i DO, in this case, use that term incredibly loosely) should be allowed to (in this case, again) vomit upon society whatever bile they choose. it is up to us to simply not pay attention to it. sadly, as much furor that this TB has generated, at least a few extra people will fall directly into Harry and Diezel6060's filthy semen-glazed palms and end up paying money to these sick fucks. i would like to say, however, DIEZEL6060, YOUR PATHETIC FUCKING ATTEMPT TO REPLY TO THE QUESTION OF PLOT, ETC., SHOWS THE COMPLETE LACK OF INTELLECT THAT YOUR "ART-COLLECTIVE" EXHIBITS BY RELEASING THIS TYPE OF SHIT! you're simply businessmen, nothing more. please don't continue to attempt to pass your masturbatory fantasies off as art. most of us are too smart to buy in to that.
Oct. 18, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST
If not then you're a fucking gimp.
Oct. 19, 2009, 12:18 a.m. CST
...any of us could do right now is comment on this particular film. As that ass-pickle Diezel/Tippy so clearly expressed, it doesn't matter if you love or hate the movie, just get in here and TALK about it--meaning the amoral fuck considers bad-mouthing just as useful as praise since the disgust voiced by normal people will attract his ghoulish demographic even more. <p> If the discussion is kept centered on the genre in general it will do the most damage to that scumbag and his twisted outfit.
Oct. 19, 2009, 2:01 a.m. CST
"It's not my movie, I just love it and support it." <p> ...a little snooping around the net shows your username popping up on other sites pimping this dreck as well. Not only that, but the only two comments posted by you on IMDB are for Murder Collection vol. 1 and Redsin Tower, both of which are Toetag abortions. <p> Go fuck yourself, you whoring, soulless douchenozzle.
Oct. 19, 2009, 8:02 a.m. CST
by just pillow talk
Oct. 19, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST
I am a ToeTag fan and love their movies. I'm done with you people. I write things about movies that mean something to me. I've written many other reviews for other movies in the past, not just Toetag. I'm not a liar. I've spoke nothing but the truth. I love MCv.1, Redsin Tower and Maskhead. I was excited that Harry did a review for Maskhead and wanted to express my feelings. I wish I had never even come on to this Talkback. I didn't do anything but express my opinion of a movie. So fuck everyone who is slinging shit at me. Other friends of mine who've experienced this kind of thing before warned me that the AICN Talkbackers are a bunch of assclowns, but I didn't listen. I like people and usually get into stimulating debates or friendly conversations, I normally don't get a shit stoning. Again, I am a fan of Toetag and these aren't my movies. Obviously, the Toetag crew know to stay away from this pathetic Talkback. So maybe I am a pathetic, lying fuck and a fucking gimp. You people are hateful. I've read very few valid points in this entire discussion. What the hell is a douchenozzle? There's been more offensive things said in your statements than in any movie I've ever seen. So keep crying and snooping to find out who people are, now that is pathetic. And attack attack attack. I never wanted attacked, I just wanted to talk about a movie I like and try to turn others onto it who might like it. I didn't realize so many people could hate something they haven't even seen. So excuse me, I will keep my opinions to myself from now on. This experience is just like in "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back." So you will be happy to know I am done with this Talkback forever. Keep hitting below the belt and enjoy your sexless lives.
Oct. 19, 2009, 9:26 a.m. CST
...know to stay away from this pathetic Talkback." <p> Obviously, they didn't.
Oct. 19, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST
The people defending "torture porn" are actually more civilized and open-minded than those who are against it. Seriously, read through this whole talkback and tell me which "side" launched the most personal attacks.<br> <br> Friday the 13th and other cheap slasher flicks are worse, in my opinion, because they encourage and celebrate the violence on-screen and glamorize it by making it seem "fun" and easy. I'd argue that's just as desensitizing, if not more so. An ultra-realistic depiction of violence and suffering is more honest, because it shows violence in all of its grimy and disturbing ugliness. This is just the same argument we heard in the '70s and '80s from clueless parents about exploitation and slasher films.
Oct. 19, 2009, 10:24 a.m. CST
You've got no informed debate to give, just the stock insult of "sexless worthless talkbackers", so to attempt to make out there's been no 'valid' comments so far - in a talkback that's been by and large one of the most civilised around here, not to mention mostly unified in disgust at the kind of entertainment you're peddling - is simply crybaby ignorance on a hilarious magnitude. To then say you're more disgusted by those comments here than you've ever been by a toetag picture - well, then you've proved out point right there. If that's the case that you take debate and disgust at moneyshot brutality flicks as more horrifying than the brutality displayed in them, well pal, you've got serious issues and I'm glad you live nowhere the fuck near me.
Oct. 19, 2009, 10:38 a.m. CST
The people having a go at this genre were very civilised by and large - as I recall, and just re-read - it's you that came in throwing specific insults at individuals. Ironic considering the 'high horses' comment you started flinging shit at us from, you're now most certainly on one yourself and even either lying or completely myopic of where the insults started. As to your final comments, yeah these are the same arguments over slasher flicks, can't deny that. The difference is though that those films didn't exist purely for the vicarious sick thrill of a murder, rape or graphic torture - they had stories behind them and were accessible for many more people than were complaining about them. The fact they've existed so long - despite the slide in quality - shows how close to the mainstream they are. It's one thing to get a thrill from being scared for someone's peril in a horror - it's something else entirely to rent a movie knowing its as close to graphic murder and rape as you're going to get without committing it, and that there's no purpose to it beyond that. If you equate an ordinary slasher/horror film with these type of twisted creations, well, you've missed the point big time. It was a vocal minority that spoke against slasher flicks, a minority that's decreased over the years as they realised the ridiculousness of their comments. Here though you have the opposite - the vast majority being against these movies and the biggest difference here is that with those who spoke against slasher flicks way back when - most hadn't watched them. It was a knee-jerk reaction. With us, we're movie fans who have seen them, and have been disgusted by the complete lack of morality displayed by those making them. Informed opinion as opposed to uninformed opinion. If you want to enjoy those films, no-one here is saying they should be banned, just kept marginalised, so go ahead, enjoy. But don't pretend that these movies have any worth beyond giving an outlet to people who want to see sick images and depravity for the sake of it.
Oct. 19, 2009, 11:13 a.m. CST
You still have yet to provide a list of these "torture porn" movies with graphic rape and murder. Maybe I'll even agree with you if I know what films you're talking about, but so far all I've heard is Hostel, Saw, Maskhead, and a studio called "Toe Tag" I never heard of before this post.<br> <br> I still can't believe you don't see where I was coming from with the "high horses" comments. What's the purpose of most horror movies? To shock and frighten, to provoke an emotional response, and it sure as hell sounds like these movies (whatever they may be, since you refuse to provide any titles) are accomplishing that goal. If they have even less of a story or purpose than the F13 series, I'll be surprised. I just watched the first eight recently and the "story" is a thinly-veiled excuse to watch Jason kill innocent people in a variety of "fun" and "entertaining" ways. "Torture porn" takes that concept, boils it down to its essence, and turns it around on the viewer, who is angry and frustrated because he can no longer "enjoy" the violence in these films.
Oct. 19, 2009, 12:12 p.m. CST
..."enjoy" the violence in these films." <p> Absolute horseshit. If there wasn't an audience who enjoyed these films, the market would dry up faster than you can say "specious". It's not like the asshats making these films are in it for the art or for somehow turning the tables on their audience. They're in it to make a fast buck off of drooltards who enjoy watching the prolonged and merciless degradation and murder of innocent human beings.
Oct. 19, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST
...if it really was a case of "turning it around on the viewer" so he becomes "angry and frustrated because he can no longer enjoy the violence in these films", surely no more than one or two of these films would suffice to tire and discourage such an individual from ever watching one again? Are you suggesting TP makers are in the business of putting themselves out of business?
Oct. 19, 2009, 12:50 p.m. CST
" I was warned that the only thing talkbackers agreed on was that torture porn was shit and loved only by pedophilles and serial killers but I like people and I didn't know any better" In the words of Nelson from The Simpsons... HA HA Nobody loves you.
Oct. 19, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST
I agree to a large degree that no one knows what truly lurks in someone's head, but if they're panting over flicks like this and other TP flicks, then you have a person who's drawn to perversity of the norm. Not necessarily a killer in training, but definitely a weird fucking cat.<p>Hostel is a hard watch, but then, for me, so is Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer. The scene with Henry and his buddy with that underage chick...just SO fucked up. Or when they kill the guy with the tv set? Man, things that brush up against 'This shit happened, probably' mess with my head, and freak me out.<p>Not to say that the flicks aren't worth making...but when it's just faked murder for the sake of seeing something that's almost exactly a murder...you've gone beyond the quest for 'verite' into some realm of 'wish fulfillment' I think.<p>I happened to think Hostel was fucked up, but shallow as shit. The sequel was also fucked up. But, I enjoyed the hell out of playing Manhunt, which was (for my money) the closest thing to a murder simulator as there can possibly be.
Oct. 19, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST
Oct. 20, 2009, 1:39 p.m. CST
I have to say,as a horror fan,I find alot of the comments here very offensive,but thats fine,I have a right to be offended,and you have a right to offend...different strokes for different folks right? What I take personal issue with is people playing amateur psychologist,and calling out all fans as debased,sick and immature. Im sure alot of people here enjoy violent films where they feel the violence is justified...justification makes no difference,its the same shit however much sugar you coat it in. There is very little/no evidence to suggest that people are influenced to be violent by the media when they do not have a predisposition to violent behaviour. If you dont like it,dont watch it,simple as. Dont accuse others of being sick,or lowering horror to calling it "torture porn"-it appears as a prudish attempt to gain moral highground by introducing a sexual element.
Oct. 21, 2009, 7:41 a.m. CST
The fact that we're supposed to be 'entertained' by the notion of these snuff-like films, does say something about the person choosing to be entertained. It's not like I watch newsreels of that Buddhist offing himself with gasonline for 'entertainment'. Or the religious cleansing of Darfour and child killing that goes on over there. Because 'verite' is supposed to be the illusion of reality. Which is why when you make something that looks realistic enough to be real, you're no longer creating fiction. And I'd wager there are more Droogs out there singing along with Alex while he rapes some broad out in the sticks. <p> If it's just this masochistic desire to see something fucked up that will tarnish your soul, then shouldn't we be wondering what the hell's wrong with us? And Princess, you'd get more mileage out of the whole Toetag's just horror flicks if you'd actually seen the stuff they put out. I've seen the Tower of whatever, (portions of, shit, like I said I can only take so much of that) and let me tell you, it's wall to wall pointless violence, if it continues in the trend that I partook of.
Oct. 22, 2009, 4:23 a.m. CST
I have seen TTP horror,and thought the Redsin Tower,for one,was very good. Reminded me of a young Peter Jackson-esque style.
Oct. 22, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST
People tend to forget that. Fictional works. People just take everthing so seriously. I'd take "torture porn" over a ridiculous, glitzy romantic comedy any day. They're a hell of alot less offensive to my senses.
Oct. 22, 2009, 3:48 p.m. CST
"Wondering what the hell is wrong with us?" It's called morbid curiosity. It happens every single day. Traffic slows down so everyone can get a glimpse of a body on the side of the road. If people want to watch this stuff (no matter how vile or disgusting it is) they should be allowed. It's theatrical make-up, all of those "victims" go home and sleep at night. It's better to partake in these fantasies rather than turn it towards reality. That's how we get the likes of serial killers.
Oct. 22, 2009, 6:53 p.m. CST
......because they're fucked in the head, wired wrong, not because they weren't able to watch torture porn as kids. That said though we simply don't need shit this vile to be lowering our society even further. And if a romcom offends you more than a film that includes a simulated rape and murder of a woman where the guy fucks her with a weapon, then you prove our points right there.
Oct. 23, 2009, 10:33 a.m. CST
when Harry is this persistent about a film it turns out to be another Abominable. Or The Signal.
Oct. 29, 2009, 2:06 a.m. CST
You're responsible for Hostile and you're plugging this movie on your website. You deserve to rot in hell. I hope one of the demented fucking degenerates that watch these kinds of "movies" finds you home alone one night. You stupid bastard.
Nov. 10, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST
You know, it's simple. If you like extremely realistic movies with almost no other content than helpless people being hideously tortured, you are probably mentally ill. Or have never seen any real death and violence, like I have after my time in the Army. Really, I don't think movies like this should be banned, because they don't cause violence. They're just crappy films. But you need to take a long hard look at yourself if you are getting pleasure out of them. And Harry, I'd love to see the bank account you pad with money taken from producers to promote films like these. Just give it up, stop writing right now, because you have no credibility.
Nov. 15, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST
by birdy birdman
From McWeeny's gang of dirtbag rape-enthusiasts
Feb. 22, 2010, 3:39 a.m. CST
You're never going to amount to anything in life you bunch of wanna be rapist.You're nothing but the shit produced when shame eats to much fucking ignorance. Keep watching this shit and jerking off in the basement,one of these days the FBI's gonna kick in your door. I hope the shit you like about these movies so much happens to you and your family. How was that for being a dick?
Feb. 22, 2010, 12:02 p.m. CST
should not be calling folks idiots. Asswipe