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Raimi Hints That SPIDER-MAN 4 May Not Be The Muddled Mess That SPIDER-MAN 3 Was!!
Merrick here...
Coventry Telegraph recently spoke to Sam Raimi about a lot of things; of particular interest were his thoughts on how he'd approach SPIDER-MAN 4.
Raimi spoke about the comic book movie franchise in the print edition of DVD & Blu-ray Review. Asked about complaints that there were too many bad guys in Spider-Man 3, he responded: "I think having so many villains detracted from the experience. I would agree with the criticism."
So it sounds like there will be fewer foes in the next installment. Raimi said he had learned some new lessons and storytelling tricks from his recent horror flick Drag Me to Hell which was a smaller and more intimate production.
He said: "I think I've learned about the importance of getting to the point and the importance of having limitations, and I'm hoping to take that into a production where I'm actually allowed to explore with more of the tools to pull it off with a little more splendour.
"I hope I don't lose that edge that I've just found. That would be my approach to Spider-Man 4: to get back to the basics."
...says Coventry Telegraph HERE.
I'll never forget sitting in a press screening of SPIDER-MAN 3. At some point, roughly 40 minutes into the film, a brief wave of restlessness and confusion spread through the audience for reasons no one could quite understand in that moment. Then everyone settled down once more, and continued watching the movie.
About eight minutes later, the lights came up and an announcement was made: the theater had accidentally switched reels and we'd been watching the film out of order for a bit of time. Viewers had evidently become restless because they'd detected the point at which the film stopped making "sense". But the audience..approximately 70 seasoned media/entertainment types...were so disengaged that no one really noticed or cared.
Either that, or the movie made so little sense to begin with that the reels being out of order wasn't all that obvious. This later theory is substantiated by the crowd's reaction after the theater graciously relaunched the show from the beginning: people thought it was a more interesting movie, and was narratively bolder, when the reels were mis-sequenced. The final product didn't speak to them as well.
All of which really has nothing to do with Raimi's comments, other than to re-enforce the point that SPIDER-MAN 3 didn't play so well. It made a lotta money, but that doesn't mean it worked as storytelling. It's good to know Sam (apparently) has at least some sense of this. Makes me a bit more interested to see a fourth film in the series.
So it sounds like there will be fewer foes in the next installment. Raimi said he had learned some new lessons and storytelling tricks from his recent horror flick Drag Me to Hell which was a smaller and more intimate production.
He said: "I think I've learned about the importance of getting to the point and the importance of having limitations, and I'm hoping to take that into a production where I'm actually allowed to explore with more of the tools to pull it off with a little more splendour.
"I hope I don't lose that edge that I've just found. That would be my approach to Spider-Man 4: to get back to the basics."
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Venom was utterly ruined and wasted. Who the hell thought that Eric Foreman could pull off Venom!?
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Cut down on all the gosh-darned crying! I think every major character in Spidey 3 was gushing the optical waterworks at one point. My wife calls it "Cryer-Man 3" for that very reason! Lame.
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There is no real news here other than Raimi admitting part 3 was a bad idea.
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"Yeah, it's going to be another overlong, tonally schizoid film that people will complain about."
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...Talked to a producer (I won't say who), but it was conceived as 2 movies and during production Sony cut the order to just 1.
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...actually not really. In fact, I don't even know where that joke started; just wanted to say it. ...gotta eat!
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They pushed Venom into the story, a character that Raimi was never fond of. The Sandman had tragedy & an interesting backstory. Venom was just there.
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But to be honest this series has not worked for me from the get go. They fucked up when they did the death of the Green Goblin in the first movie along with a neutered version of the Death of Gwen Stacy.
It would be like if the new James Bond reboot start out with her meeting Tracy di Vicenzo and having he ALMOST die, and then have Blofeld killed in that movie. Way to fuck up his best story. -
The problem wasn't the Multi-villains. It was all that sappy shit with Mj and Harry, I was about to vomit from the emotional mess that movie became. The villains didn't get enough screen time, If they did it probably would've been a classic. No more please.
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The first two were alright, but not exactly great. The third was an utter shitpile of the first degree and Drag Me to Hell was fucking awful - the first film I've turned off halfway through in ages. Get back to making something interesting. Cleanse your palatte with a great thriller again, A Simple Plan was the last great movie you made - give us a great thriller then get back to the large films. Maybe the perspective will bring something great. Spiderman 4 aint gonna be. I can tell you that now.
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Because part II was so brilliant. How could Raimi have topped it? He panicked and threw everything at the wall to see what stuck. Spider-Man 4 needs ONE villain. He should also make it for like 100 million bucks instead of 250. I have faith in Sam, Drag was beautiful and him acknowledging part 3's busted narrative is affirming.
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Use some of the budget from 4 to fix no. 3. Film some scenes of a Black suit spidey almost killing some bad guys, give 'dancing' Parker more reason for the lame goth looks and moves, ditch the alley team-up of Sandman and Venom and just have one of them catch the battle on the live news and then turn up, ditch the butler amnesia and give Harry different motivation for his change of heart etc. I'm sure there is so much more, but maybe a bit of money and love from Raimi could make us love Spiderman 3 in time for Spiderman 4.
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If all copies of the Spider-Man films were shredded, I wouldn't be upset as I would if the same happened to Star Wars, the Pixar films, or even the Harry Potters (sorry) - but they ARE good films (the first two). (The idea that after he made Spidey 2 for them, the studio set all sorts of hurdles for him is horrifying.) I think there IS a bit of a problem, though. Put Tobey's Spidey next to Jackman's Wolverine (from X & X2 at least), or Downey Jnr's Tony Stark, and he seems to me to be a bit of a bore. A bit lacking in balls.
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Spider-Man 3 was, oddly enough, far more successful at the box office than parts 1 & 2. Yet, Raimi is still honest enough to admit, that even he, was disappointed with the end result. You really gotta give it up to the guy for being honest and upfront, because he really doesn't have to say shit to anybody.
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Blame it on shitty storytelling that couldn't find the obvious thread between all those stories to tie them together.
The film could've worked fine. Sandman was a ridiculous addition to the story and shouldn't have been chosen at all. The third film should've been: NEW GOBLIN, VENOM, and THE LIZARD. Why The Lizard instead of Sandman? Because he's been in every single movie, so far. Because (if you've seen KINGS or Trick 'R Treat), you know that Dylan Baker is a marvelous villain. And, because his thread ties directly in with Venom, and because he's the father figure Peter's been holding on to since Uncle Ben died. That's a story I'd like to see, but one Raimi refuses to show us because he's so wrapped up in The Golden Age of comics.
Make another shitty Spiderman so Harry can gush over it. I want to see something with emotional weight. -
Talented man stuck with a boy in tights. Come on Raimi.
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So Raimi is wrapped up in the Silver Age.
And as much as Sandman was an unnecessary addition, and he horribly deviated from the comic books, he was still more interesting than Venom and the New Goblin. -
It was that they were poorly portrayed and badly acted, on top of the excessive crying and dancing. Yeah, get back to the basics. Sounds like a plan. *Eyeroll*
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There you go, run with it.
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Raimi should take Parker and put him in another location?? Tokyo? I don't know, somewhere other than NY. I'm sick of NY. Let Spidey swing from a fuckin iceberg before putting him back in NY.
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And I think you have to do it fairly early in the film. Otherwise, the danger looming of having her being imperiled at the climax FOR THE FOURTH FUCKING MOVIE IN A ROW will loom way too fucking large.
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Venom was in that goddamn movie BECAUSE of stupid fan demands. Let Raimi do classic villains like he wants - fuck the 80s villains...they are lame. You people wanted Venom - you got him. Now shut the fuck up and let's get back to the Vulture and stuff...
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It's not who's in the movie but how they are used. Having Sandman being "the real killer" of Uncle Ben was ridiculous and utterly unnecessary. Why does Spider-Man need a personal reason to go after every villain? Why can't he go into the climactic battle with the bad guy because he's the only one who can stop him? Why does Spider-Man only take on the villain when he's avenging a loved-one or trying to save one?"With great power comes great responsibility" means to sacrifice oneself for the greater good; to protect those who can't protect themselves, to protect everyone not just your family and friends. Honestly, I don't think Raimi gets that. His seeming failure to grasp the most basic element of what makes Spider-Man tick is what made #3 such a pedestrian rehash of the first two films.
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i thought Venom was as well handled as he could be with all the subplots going on. Topher was properly menacing. the end fight was a bit too CGI for my tastes though. Sandman's creation was really cool. emo parker didn't bother me. the conflict between peter & harry was properly intense, though the new goblin costume was bollocks. there's no reason to believe 4 can't be good/great.
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But I think it is a little late now. Seriously, this series is compromised. I know they are not going to reboot it or shelve it for awhile, but all my interest in it is gone. This is not the Spider-Man I grew up reading, or even a decent adaptation.
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Didn't think Raimi was gonna take me seriously.
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of turditude
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One of the best parts about Spider-man was pretty much left out of all three films. Spider-man needs to verbally mock the villan and the situations they are in. Spider-man is not mute.
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Sandman as Uncle Ben's killer was dumb. as was the Butler retcon.
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Yep, that's what we're looking for from a Spider-Man movie
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1- Bits of irrelevant news and spy picts for 10 months.
2- Eventually, trailer hit, everybody is excited about the new villain and how cool it look.
3- Huge opening weekend. Go watch the film with friends, 2 hours of blockbuster fun popcorn ride.
4- Walks out, the flashes of imagery slowly fades into a haze.
5- Resume life, I am still not a Jedi.
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There is an obvious thread between all the villains and Spider-Man and that theme is revenge and how it destroys everyone. I see what Raimi was tryig to do, and how that thread works wiht the symbiote and Sandman killing Uncle Ben and Harry's hatred for Peter. It's not an aimless movie. It's just muddled.
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Spider-Man gets the powers of Captain Universe, spider armor, Spider-Ham, Clone Saga, & Mephisto wants the love shared by Peter & MJ. If the goal is to make a movie that's shittier than SM3, any of these are feasible.
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Either the lizard because his character was introduced in the first 2 movies, or go with Mysterio.
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The reviews on here were universally glowing! I think Moriarty was the only one to express anything besides unqualified rapture over that P.O.S. Kinda makes me wonder about those "bought and paid for" accusations...
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when I looked up and realized this was Merrick. Nevermind.
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but things went...differently, as we all know. This franchise is now too fucked up for me to care what happens next.
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didn't mind so much in the first film 'cos it was Spidey web slinging thru NY live and on the big screen
2nd and 3rd films they really grated on me though -
...and make that villain Mysterio! Or any other old school guy would be fine. I'd like to hope that the studio learned their lesson about meddling, but they never do.
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not seeing this one at the theatre,p>
Studio should have reset the franchise and replaced the director and actors -
There are a lot of things that didn't work in 3, but by far the thing that bugged me the most was they retconned Sandman into Spidey's "origin" story. That's just lame storytelling, but also like in Burton's Batman, it weakens the concept by having taking away the anonymous criminal as the thing that spurs the hero. Setting it up as a mano a mano is fine for one story but these characters are supposed to have many, many adventures and a key part of it is they never really have the satisfaction of revenge. In Spider-Man's case it's even more key as he does track the guy down, only to realize he himself is responsible for the whole tragedy. As for Venom, it's a moronic character, and what they did with it in SM3 was better than could've been expected.
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Is my favorite Raimi film, although I still need to see Drag Me To Hell. Never got much out of the Spiderman movies, and think Sam is wasting his talent on that drivel.
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Kinda tired of every scene about what's happening TO Peter/Spider Man instead of seeing him be proactive and figure something out for himself. Oh, and his relationship with MJ is entering snoresville. No wonder Marvel broke them up!
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goddamnit they fucked over Sandman, and they even cast a great actor for the role. Wasted. And they should have killed off Mary Jane and went the opposite way of the comic canon and make Gwen Stacy the new love interest.
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fucking do it already! It's already set up... all 3 of his bit parts were his "day jobs" from trying to be an actor (replace that from being a special effects wizard). http://tinyurl.com/yh38x74
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4. Net nerds will bash the villian's design no matter what it looks like. It's sort of all the rage these days.
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One serious villain, no uninhibited cabaret routines on restaurant tables. S3 pumped chunks.
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Having Sandman being "the real killer" of Uncle Ben was ridiculous and utterly unnecessary. Learning that from the first trailer of Spider-Man 3 pissed me off to no end. And I can't believe that Sam Raimi OK'd that for the movie, you don't fuck with the Origin Story.
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The story about the loser getting the girl. We saw that in SM 1, 2, and 3. Point is, it doesn't matter what kind of plot Raimi comes up with if the story is the same.
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This was actually the BEST sequence of the entire film, IMHO, because Raimi was at least entertaining us. I hated Venom. I agree with ditching Mary Jane, but I think they should retain Gwen Stacy and recast the role.
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Oct 16, 2009 12:27:42 PM CDT
HOW ABOUT THE FUCKING STUPID GOOFY HUMOR AND PLOT POINTS?
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
peter dancing and playing piano, all the stupid hair flipping crap, the scene with the little girl selling a camera interupting the muddeled final battle, the terrible singing from dunst, the weird and awful 1950's sci fi sandman music, the stupid stupid plot when harry gets amenesia,the weird newscasting bits, the scene where harry and mj dance and do the twitch, and the extremely offensive laugh out loud because its so god fucking awful that you cant believe its happening scene where harrys old ass butler comes out of nowhere and tells him he loves him like a son. did all that happen because the movie had too many villians?
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Is That people do not want to see Spiderman fighting a dust cloud and an oil spill. They want spiderman to punch a real villain...hard in the face and or balls and then punch the villain in the balls again, a villain that is at least human or a ppears to be physically there....but definitely punched in the balls or may gettng kicked...in the balls. yeah.
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Oct 16, 2009 12:32:34 PM CDT
Bruce was cast as Mysterio in the fake SM movie in Ultimate Spid
by pollaxt
...seriously, just copy that brilliant book.
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didnt raimi do all this villain secrecy stuff for the last one? and didnt he talk about what was next for parkers growth too?been there done that.moving on.
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Damn enter button. Anyway: I think we've seen in the X-Men, Spider-man, Hulk, Punisher, etc that a certain trend exists. A movie's box office $ is not based on how good THAT movie is, it's based on how good the PREVIOUS movie is. That's why Spider-man 3 and X-Men 3 did so well, they had positive expectations from the prior films. I think the best example is Terminator. T3 made money because people loved the first 2. TS was a failure because people thought it would be worse than T3.
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After I helped Sam write Drag me to hell, ee started musing about more spidey, i like to think i'm the one who convinced him to return
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'Nuff said.
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You can't improve upon the failure of the previous movie, if you don't admit your mistakes. Raimi has the good sense to admit his failure. That gives me hope moving forward.
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Spider-Man 3 was a major letdown, I think he's got the right attitude going into the fourth one. Don't stop making them!
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who liked spider-man 3. it is my favorite of the series.
for one thing, im a sam raimi fan and s3 is a true sam raimi film. much more so than s1 or 2. also s3 is a comic book film. s1 and2 are romantic dramas first and foremost. so, yeah, spidar-man 3. best of the series...(here come the haters) -
it's not too many villians, but the shitty pacing and story is what effin killed spidey 3; sandman was uncle ben's killer?goblin jr attempts to kill parker throughout the movie until his butler explains that peter wasn't responsible for osborn's death?gwen stac....well, bryce was kinda hawt.emo-dancing-bitchslapping-parker?and a "cameo"appearance by venom.all of the sudden, raimi now realized how bad he fucked up?well, he deserves a second chance unlike singer who bailed out on x3 for stupid stalkerman.oh, and drag me to hell was disapointing as hell.
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i loved that movie. classic raimi. if people didn't like that one, i don't know how they could actually be raimi fans
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You could cut the film frames and spread over randomly, the movie would feel the same. Let's just pray Spidey 4 has about 10 villains, a lot of emo culture references, and six or seven dance numbers, WITH a bouncing ball over the lyrics.
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It should have been The Lizard for S3, so do it right and make him the SOLO villain for S4.
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Oct 16, 2009 12:50:24 PM CDT
Raimi, just state that Sandman didn't kill Uncle Ben and you're
by spyguy
Forget Peter's "jazz hands" dance number, THIS is the thing that pissed me off most about SPIDER-MAN 3. By having Sandman as the guy who killed Uncle Ben (even accidentally), you take away the core of Spider-Man -- that because Peter fucked up and let a thief escape, his surrogate father Uncle Ben was killed. If you can somehow fix that bullshit fiasco in SPIDER-MAN 4, then we'll forgive you. Not before.
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Kraven and The Lizard really need to be the villians in this one...
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Kraven and The Lizard really need to be the villians in this one...
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Agreed. That was some of the most fun I have had at a film this year.
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The little CGI puppet show of the first followed by the black hole of plot holes that is Dr. Octopus. The artificially intelligent arms, they're not important, this fusion reaction in the city is.
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spider-man 4 would be based on the 5 part fearful symetary series..in which kraven buries spidey alive while vermin goes on a killing spree.this would make use of raimi's horror/suspense abilities while being more "darker". not for the apple pie faced kiddies this time.It would effin rock.
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Problem is, Raimi doesn't seem to know how that failure occurred. It wasn't too many villains, or even too many characters. It was the piss-poor way in which those characters were used. Would Spider-Man 3 be a substantially better film if Venom had not been in it? No, it would simply be one less thing wrong with the movie.
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1 had a good beginning but the rest was bad, 2 was just awful, so bad.
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at chicks.
At this point I turned to my friend and asked if we were in the wrong theater. -
.. felt like Raimi holding me down and playing "just the tip" with my childhood's anus.
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This is why the Master Copy of Spider-Man should be destroyed.
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never professed to being a raimi fan as i loathed army of darkness but praised his work on spiderman 2.That being said,DMTH was a mash-up of both Steven King's Thinner and a bit of Evil Dead.nothing really solid or original..good ending, but had that been there done that cliche feeling.
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...was the best thing about SM3. Watching the dork Peter Parker try to be all menacingly suave was just hilarious, and intentionally so, I thought. I also liked Topher Grace as Brock, as his prickish mirror-image of Parker/Spider-Man was much more effective than the one-note muscleman from the comics. The worst part was the Sandman. And the incredible coincidence of the symbiote impacting right next to SM. But everyone bags on the dance bit, and I'd just like to point out that everyone is wrong. -
what some ppl will say to get attention I tell ya. :/
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spiderman 3 didnt ruin the franchise, the franchise needed help from the beginning. part 1, over dramatic, horrible bridge scene ("you'se mess wit spidey, you'se mess wit all new yawkers!"..horrible.) and no real bad guy.. just some poor guy driven insane by circumstance.part 2, over dramatic, horrible 'giving-up-thus-losing-powers' cliche, no real bad guy.. just some poor guy driven insane by circumstance. (which led to a horrible ending.. spiderman doesnt really win.. the bad guy just gives up.. how is that not criticized more?)part 3, OVER DRAMATIC, horrible emo peter parker scene, one bad guy is a poor guy driven to crime by circumstance.. and then finally they give us a real BAD guy, Venom.. who is the one bad guy who SHOULD have been a guy driven to crime by circumstance.if you're not going to reboot please tone down the emo drama.. have spiderman actually enjoy his job for a few scenes, cut down on whiney MJ (seriously,its hard not to hate her character in the movies, all she does is hinder spiderman, and cause new problems) then perhaps you can even toss in 5 villians and the movie will still be better than spiderman 3.
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Sam Raimi is acting like Spider-Man 3 was some freshman mistake. The man made one good Spider-Man movie (1) and one EXCELLENT Spider-Man movie (2) before he made that abysmal failure. The problem isn't too many villains, its that Sam Raimi arrogantly decided that he could write the script when, apparently, he's not all that good a writer. AMNESIA AS A PLOT DEVICE??? Come on. I can't believe that made it into an actual movie. Here's the problem: Spider-Man 3 was so bad that, for me at least, it went a long way towards ruining the series. I'm genuinely uninterested in another Spider-Man movie. Thanks but no thanks, Sam.
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Oct 16, 2009 1:11:00 PM CDT
people love to dis the dancing in the 3rd movie
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
and want the spider-man movies to be "darker". what?! spider-man can't dance or wink at chicks? since when is spider-man a "dark" character? this isnt bruce wayne we're talking about here. peter parker does stupid things and cracks stupid jokes. thats the character
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i just have my own opinions and tastes that dont always follow the crowd (like a sheep)
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It took me a few years to rent Spiderman 3, I figured all the reviews and hate were true, that it was a horrible film. But, it wasn't. It was actually a lot of fun. Yeah, there was a lot going on but that's what made it interesting. Even the "emo spidey" and dance sequence was entertaining in its context. Not to mention, Bryce Dallas Howard... especially in that pink top, with her blonde hair... jesus christ.
I was watching it and thinking "This is the movie everyone DESPISES so much?", so I actually enjoyed it. It did its job of being a fun movie. Maybe it was a mess, but it wasn't the dud everyone was making it out to be. -
Part of what made it so bad was the greatness of the previous film (Spiderman 2). Spiderman 3 seemed like a rushed attempt to make money. In this one film, the lack of effort in the storytelling of Venom, Sandman and the Green Goblin 2 (Harry) destroyed the legacy of these villains by the studio's attempt to out do the previous installment. It was quite pathetic. I would love to see Kraven the Hunter in this film. You could see that great hunter named Kraven traveling to New York in order to hunt down Spiderman ala THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME. It could return the film to a more realistic and gritty brand of storytelling (ala SPIDERMAN 2). I could also see The Lizard as a viable villain too (since Dr. Conners has already been shown in ALL THREE previous films). I would say focus on Kraven the Hunter...and then subtly show Conner's reptilian experiments at regrowing a limb.
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how do you ruin a one dimensional played out villian? venom was always a one trick pony.
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Let's just do a Spiderman with the whole zombie thing. I know nothing about it, but there's zero chance of emo Parker when he's too busy gnoshing on brains.
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Should replace puffy lispy old Tobey from here on out. He can deliver the wisecracking dialogue far better than the aw-shucksy McGuire.
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It was so over the top, the emotions displayed by the characters that is--"Let's go, buddy!...could use some help here!", that it veered directly into Adam West-Batman-camp.
Another thing that grated on me were the crowd reactions and bystanders, including the reporter giving us blow-by-blow commentary. At least make it somewhat realistic, even though it's a comic book flick. The flick also showed the entire NYPD standing around gaping up as a Sandman monster pranced around. I'm sure somebody would have called in SWAT and military strike teams, along with F16s. -
3 was a confused bore. 2 was a masterpiece. Time for marvel Zombies.
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..I can bet that when I show them the Spider-Man movies, they're love it but they'll probably will agree that Spider-Man 3 was 'off'.
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Why does everyone have such a boner for it? I am the first to admit that subject line is absolutely hyperbolic, but it was one of the most middling, mediocre movies I've seen in 2009. No real scares, no real laughs, every cliché in the book present and accounted for (and not in some cute retro "back to basics" way like THE EXPENDABLES seems to be attempting), and a main character I didn't really give a fuck about at all. I'm not sure it would have been much better with Bruce Campbell in the lead, but at least I would have liked someone in the movie!
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I can't take that character seriously AT ALL since Venture Brothers had that flamboyantly gay Kraven-esque character that hunts Brock Samson. "He isn't answering his cell phone. If you knew the guy, you'd know that's a big deal."
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Call Alvin Sargent to create the screenplay instead of your brother
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...if Raimi hadn't thrown a tantrum like he was a toddler and deliberately ruined Venom simply because he didn't like the character. He could have saved Sandman for 4 and things would have been fine. Instead we got an overblown mess and the waste of what should have been a good character. Fuck Raimi, give the franchise back to Marvel...
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"(and not in some cute retro "back to basics" way like THE EXPENDABLES seems to be attempting)"
have you seen the expendables? -
Spiderman 4, Back to the Basics
I'm in. -
I know that's the popular opinion, "Spiderman 2 is the best comic book movie of all time", but to me it was long and tedious. It wasn't a bad movie by any stretch, but I didn't enjoy it as much as part 1. Spiderman 3 if nothing else put back some of the fun that part 1 had.
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Do they not bother with these any more and just wing it ?
Really the last one i think i saw was for the matrix and that was shot for shot how the movie turned out.
Which begs the question if they are using storyboard how are movies coming out so poorly these days. -
It was basically just a series of random events strung together, the perfect example is Sandman running into Venom in an alley and they just all of a sudden decide to go fight Spidey. I think the mid-90's Sega CD Spider-Man video game plot made more sense than Spider-Man 3. The number of characters/acting/directing/action were no better or worse than any of the other films, it was the script that let it down.
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It should have been Lizard and New Goblin in 3, then Venom and Gwen Stacey as the Black Cat in 4 to give Spidey a tease of the dark side.
But now they've fucked both those up. Will I see it? Meh, maybe if my bro decides to pay for my ticket. -
drag me to hell was the worst horror movie of 2009? so you liked The Haunting In Connecticut better than drag me to hell? yoikes
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We're 3 films and how many years into this franchise and we've still never fucking seen Spider Man at the height of his powers and confidence actually out there being a Good Guy and taking on a big baddie, while having just the tinyest bit of fun doing it.
First one was a decent origin flick and I thought Dafoe was great. But, Peter's pretty much lost until the final fight.
Second one, the good ole lost his powers plot.
Third one was the good ole taken over by an alien (or amnesia)plot.
Just for once, can we get the *real* Spiderman taking on an adversary? And can said adversary be of a sort that we don't have to yet again gimp the hero for there to be a dramatic matchup? And can this condition not be limited to a final "cage match?" -
Just watched the ending on YouTube, it was terrible. Dude pulling out the ring to share with the TV audience, some really shitty acting from the lead, then a decent sequence, but some retarded-looking effects in the last few frames.
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spiderman movies are fuckin snoozefests....spiderman is hardly fuckin in them, it's just hours and hours with boring peter parker and his ugly girlfriend.
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I wasn't refering to you, the comment was aimed at CAMERONDIAZ_ZITBEARD for his/her banal post.We just happen to disagree about Drag me to hell and even then it wasn't a jab atcha.Don't be so defensive bro.
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for fuck's sake.
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It's not like there was one good movie in the franchise and two terrible ones because a bad director got lucky once, we had two great films and one ok one because Raimi is a more than capable director that was screwed over by major studio interference. I'm very optimistic that he will pull it off for number 4, especially after Drag Me To Hell.
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You're an idiot. I've seen the EXPENDABLES trailer like everyone else with a positive IQ so I'm as qualified as you or anyone to speak about the ostensible tone of the film.You're even more of an idiot for saying Peter Parker isn't a "dark" character so he should be allowed to dance. Nobody suggested anything about being "darker" except one random crackpot (who no one else even bothered to reply to), and the problem with the dancing is not its "levity" it's the fact that it looks fucking retarded. So I guess I see why you identify with it.
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Is a 4th film that rebounds from the mediocre 3rd. That would be impressive. He's got Spidey down...except for the drama. I think they should tone that down. And give Spidey something to say so he's not just a mute in costume.
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you have not seen the expendables. and so, you comparing spiderman 3 to a movie that you have not seen. seems like your the idiot in this situation.
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Having the symbiote bond to Parker through pure coincidence robbed the story of one interesting element, that the symbiote(in the comics) sought out and chose Parker because he has superpowers. We didn't see enough of the "symbiote wearing Peter". Also, the stupid scene with the butler robs Harry of his redemption. Cutting this scene entirely gives Harry the chance to do the right thing, despite his personal anguish over his father's death, instead of "Oh? I was wrong?" The Sandman being the real killer: I was waiting for that to be a hoax rigged up by Harry as part of his revenge plot. Had that materialized, it could've worked. The only thing S3 did better than the previous 2 films was the initial fight sequence between Pete and Harry, which is the best aerial acrobatic combat in the whole series, and the first true realization of how Spidey fights in the comics(sans the wisecracks, though, unfortunately).
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OK, you said he was spoofed as some Gay charicture, but that shouldn't make you think less of his potentual in a Spidey sequel.Look, Silver Surfer was lampooned as a very effeminate homosexual in an episode of Dail M for Monkey (from the creators of dexter's labratory.just google Silver Spooner) yet that didn't have me think less of his part in FF RotSS. Just that the movie itself kinda sucked.Kraven and Jim's suggestion of The Lizard (as he's more well known than Vermin)would make for a more rewarding sequel than S3.
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wasn't directed at you specifically either.
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spider-man 3 actually gives me nightmares. I ACTUALLY SLEEP WORSE BECAUSE OF SPIDER-MAN 3. i wake up just hating that film. it will never leave me and i can never watch any spider-man film again, because of the HURT that film caused me. Seeing a fourth film will be an absolute struggle for me.
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'kravens last hunt' with the lizard replacing vermin. they need to finally use the dr conners character, who has been in all the movies, but has yet to become the lizard
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the fourth movie doesn't suck: make it an Evil Dead movie instead(duh). I imagine The Bruce can play hooky from "Burn Notice" long enough to knock it out in style. If Raimi wants to mollify fans, it's as good a way as any. Once that's out the way, *then* go back to Spiderman.BTW, don't believe the hype about "Paranormal Activity". I saw it at a midnight screening last evening. You wait, you wait, you wait... and very few scares occur, and those are tepid at best. It was the longest 90-minute movie(86,actually)I've ever seen. It does have one really good zinger at the very end, but that didn't salvage it. Anyway, youse been duly warned.
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look at the Obscura guys post. yikes
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Gold, buddy. Pure gold. You're oddly quiet about your failed revisions for SM3. Also, tell us about your idea's for Back To The Future 4.
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...that big feathered boa collar and leopard print spandex pants? With the Freddy Mercury 'stache? It's more than just his parody version on VB that hinders my ability to take him seriously as a villain. I'm not saying it can't be done, but... he needs a redesign.
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Spiderman 1 and 2 had BALLS. Spiderman 3 had no balls but a little bit of chest hair and thin mustache. Y'know what m'sayin?
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They're the only ones more entertaining than Rob Zombie remake ones. Anyways, Raimi should not have been forced to shoehorn Venom into 3. I could have given a bit of a pass to all of the other garbage if there were a few badass Venom scenes but alas, there were none. I'm all for the Kraven and Lizard storyline for 4.
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soup74 expressed most of the problems I had will all spider-man movies.
The villains are not true villains, they are all guys with tragic, sad back stories. They are boring and uninteresting.
GG-company being taken away.
Doc Oc: wife died, failed science experiment trying to help the world.
Sandman: Sick daughter
Also, the acting is terrible. Toby Maguire is boring and stiff. kirsten dunst is a terrible actress and MJ is written as a whiny bitch. And the character of Aunt may is annoying as fuck with all her little snippets of Yoda-esque wisdom.
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I guess you were refering to me since I had previously mentioned "darker" (no?) I guess you never even read the FS Miniseries which involved elements of suspense and horror in a Yes, that's right.."Spiderman Comic"!! *gasps*obviously Raimi for the most part is a great storyteller/director when it comes to Horror so helming a sequel based on the aformentioned comic miniseries is up his alley.(can you say Spidey 2?) Spiderman 2 was "dark" and in some ways horrific that scene alone in which otto's wife gets offed is not your average family-friendly-happy meal Movie.you should be mindful of who you call names before knowing all the facts,sparky.
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Obscura, get help.
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losing sleep over part 3?!? The only drama that needs to be turned down is the emo crap spewing from the armchair critics in this TB. Yeah I agree the third film just had too much going on and too many characters. The second film, even with the "lost powers" sub plot was my favorite. (Doc Ock was in this film as well) Venom shouldn't have been in the third film at all. I think the balance of humor and action (something that plays very well to the tone of the comic) is captured very well, it's just like they went overboard on EVERYTHING in the third film that made the second so good. I think the fourth will be good, it's not like the abortion they pulled with the x-men films so calm down fan bois. True believers know the next one will be amazing!
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They know that what they write is really unimportant. Moviegoers make or brake these movies. Not critics.
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Oct 16, 2009 2:05:24 PM CDT
Now that Avi and Arri are gone - and there's only Feige
by professor_monster
That means you only have one moron you need to leap past to get sa good story going? Let's face it, that father and son team were the ones that pushed Venom off on Raimi, they were also the ones who didn't want Fav back for Iron 2 and refused to deal with Mickey Rouke's contract until after the Oscar's were passed out. On the same note but different pitch, Kevin Feige or however you spell his name, is pretty much a nonfactor - his input on Electra and Spidey 3 made those films oh so fantastic - the sooner this whole comic book wave is over the better - but then again, what happens next - we truly are in the only generation that never read on their own and lived off of toys, comics and the glass tit.
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ya got me on the Freddie Mercury Mustache and leopard Spandex.OK, I guess a redesign/alteration should be necessary. XD
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Easy on JettL...he got some major help from yours truly. C-No loves it and says it's shaping up to be the best Spidey yet!
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what about spiderman 1. i can't even watch that movie. it is a straight up romantic drama first and a superhero movie 5th or 6th. and it boring
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We know what Tobey Maguire looks like, and if Parker is presently Spider-Man, he needs to leave the g'damn mask on. He needs to replace the nylon mesh with Teflon so that the thing doens't continue to tear, either. We're about one movie away from Peter standing there in front of the new villain after a grueling battle, with only half his mask on, one glove, and a strip of red nylon covering his left testicle. Also, Kirsten Dunst just turned Mary Jane into a raving, unlikable, uncaring troll by the third movie. Peter shouldn't even think about continuing a relationship with her, let alone marry her.
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I may be in the minority here (as I am in my opinion of the game because I loved it) but I would love to see them adapt the story from Spider-man: Web of Shadows to the big screen. A full-blown symbiote invasion would be pretty badass in my opinion and would give Raimi plenty of opportunity to flex his horror muscles.
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Oct 16, 2009 2:14:34 PM CDT
500 DAYS OF SUMMER FEATURED AN ELABORATE DANCE NUMBER
by bringingsexyback
And it was PERFECT. Make Jos. Gordon-Leavitt Spider-Man and the chick at the end of 500 Days Mary Jane. Done, and done.
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we're tired of the origin formula in movies with multiple villains. Dark Knight's Joker never had any clear origin. I say throw the entire Sinister Six against Spidey and if anyone cares how the Rhino or Electro got their start, that's what the comics are for!
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as the game couldn't hold my attention, unlike Wolverine X-Men origins,Batman AA and Marvel Ultimate alliance 2.Hmmm, i should be able to snatch it now for $15(?)
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Oct 16, 2009 2:17:08 PM CDT
POTENTIALLY, SPIDEY FACING DOWN 2/3 VILLAINS WOULD BE EPIC
by bringingsexyback
Only if they were fiercely evil and determined to destroy him. S3 failed to take advantage of this scenario.
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ooh cgi goo, scary.
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We shall see... we shall see...
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http://www.realitywired.com/panic-face-king.html
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Yeah it's strange. I avoided WoS for a while and only actually picked it up about a month ago but I was immediately hooked and played it all the way through. I even held off on play Ultimate Alliance 2 for a week after I bought it so I could finish WoS. Aside from the combat system it was actually more simplified than the other free-roaming Spider-man games. I don't know. It just struck a chord with me.
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Citing the fact that after Parker is attached to the Black Symboite, he gets rythym, disses his hommies and pimpslaps a bitch.sooo wrong.
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I've always been a big fan of the symbiotes so maybe that helped with the appeal.
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Too many notes from on high. Dancing numbers aside, that film was the least Raimi-esque Raimi film I've seen.
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emo parker is like that college freshman who moves from the small town to the big city and immediately gets into coke and clubbing. i see those douches in my city every weekend.
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Do you remember at what point the narrative jumped from the reel error? If it made the film "narratively bolder", I'd be interested to watch it like that.
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Just have him go up a building floor by floor and fight a different supervillian. It'd make about as much sense as Spider-Man 3, and they can just focus on the fights/action/special effects instead of the horribly acted drama scenes and lame going into Michael Bay/George Lucas attempts at comedy.
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i always stayed away from WoS. now im tempted to check it out. especially for the reduced 'used' price
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but I seriously doubt that Sony would invest soo much money for the extra SFX (let alone major celebrities.)to get this thing made.
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spiderman three is very raimi esque. that baseball movie he made is the least raimi-esue movie he's made
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Oct 16, 2009 2:27:49 PM CDT
to many villains? sinister six may not be the answer then
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
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That's exactly why I picked it up. I had heard the game get shit on so much but I finally just said fuck it and picked it up for like 15 bucks. It was definitely a pleasant surprise.
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about business and not art,it was expected that SM3 would be a total crapfest.the signs were already in sm2.
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hava a vilalin in the movie that he didn't give a shit about.Raimi always said he hated Venon, but the studios forced his hand and forced him to put Venon in the movie, agaisnt his will. and it shows. If Spider-Man 3 is unballanced, that's because of it. Remove Venon from the movie and all the baggage associated with the character, and Spider-Man 3 is a pretty good comic movie.
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Ungrates!!
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I'm not proud of it, its just true.... that movie killed a small part of me.
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Oct 16, 2009 2:37:15 PM CDT
Obscura, i understand, i feel that way about
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
avatar. and i haven't even seen it yet...
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they didnt have Black Cat.They should make it like Batman Returns,than beverly hills 9013943
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Oct 16, 2009 2:42:15 PM CDT
Apparently, I saved myself the agony of SPIDERMAN 3 by...
by mr. nice gaius
...being thoroughly unimpressed with SPIDERMAN 2. After that film, I was no longer interested in the franchise. And I've got a feeling that I'll be saving my money again when SPIDERMAN 4 rolls around.That's right. You heard me.
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MJ, Felicia, Betty, Gwen, Angelica Jones, and Kitty Pryde.
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No matter how good or beloved a movie actually is (like spiderman 2) there will always be a small mob of haters that have to piss on stuff everyone else likes. No one can win. There is not one single movie ever made that someone won't piss on, just for the sake of being a hateful puke.
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One was kind of shitty, but I enjoyed 2 and 3. Why did 3 have to be four hours long, though?
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I think the studio learned that Raimi was in the right with Spidey 3 and that was why he is given so much power in this one. I expect the wedding, Lizard, Kraven and hopefully a hint at Secret Wars. I hope this Carnage stuff he talked about was a joke, but it would make sense with Conners having that part of the black costumer. I loath Carnage.
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Fine. We got it. The world needs a hero - got it. Please no passing tripe monologues of syrupy goo for dialogue anymore! It's all one dialogue scene following another - have it play like a drama and unfold instead of gluing set pieces together!
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...would be the crowning achievement of the current geek-movie era. That, or a Crisis on Infinite Earths movie, with CGI'd dead actors reprising all the various roles. Harry would suffer a fatal orgasm in the theater. You guys think 3 villains is too much? What about 3,000? Too bad it will never ever remotely happen. -
I do want to see Connors become the Lizard but this will be the third scientist to destroy himself in the four movies. Then again I would prefer that to having a vampire as a villian, who is also a mad scientist. At any rate when they have to recast I still think Justin Long would be a pretty good replacement. He can play a more mature Peter Parker and can handle the Spider-Man wisecracks just fine. Wouldn't mind seeing a Black Cat either....played by Mila Kunis maybe?
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What about an Alistair Smythe/Spider slayers storyline? Haven't really heard that one tossed around...
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Oct 16, 2009 3:01:23 PM CDT
AND STOP TALKING ABOUT THE STUPID UPSIDE DOWN KISS
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
how to fuck can you turn that into apart of the plot? "THAT WAS OUR KISS" fuck off raimi!!!!!!!!!!!!
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i enjoyed the movie overall but i agree with the assessment that too much was going on.
The story should have been focused on Sandman, the re-emergence of green goblin and Spidey dealing with how black costume was changing him.
Eddie Brock (and him becoming Venom) should have been a teaser for Spiderman 4 -
i would sell my soul to have her sit on my face
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I guess the 500 one-liners crammed into a two minute trailer and someone's cell phone going off in the middle of a standoff, not to mention the 80s dialogue and the (obviously intentional) rehashed plot collectively give me no basis whasoever on which to comment upon the tone of a film.I guess the 500 comments on the Expendables trailer (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/42703) are all completely useless because after all nobody's seen the WHOLE film yet and it's impossible to make ANY kind of judgment about a film based on the trailer, right?? Are you really that stupid?(If you're arguing with me out of some kind of Samaritan instinct to defend the film, then understand I'm not bashing it, I'm looking forward to it.)Anybody with an intact brain stem who's seen The Expendables trailer and Drag Me To Hell could tell you Raimi failed attempting the same thing Sly is going after (and Black Dynamite, too): recapturing a tone and style specific to an era that is over, without the needless pretensions of explicit self-consciousness which have reached their logical conclusion in dreck like Meet The Spartans.
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Is ANYONE here stupid enough to believe any of this? Exactly how short are the memories of some people?They ALWAYS say this. It's always "Oh we took a very close look at the first movie and what things sucked and the things fans complained about, and we realize what we need to do for the sequel so WATCH OUT, because it's not gonna suck at all since we've learned our lesson now!!". Every. Time. And there will always be people braindead enough to just eat it up.If they actually came through every now and then and delivered on their claims... maybe I'd give it a shot and be indifferent towards things like this. But thus far, every time I hear it, it's all nothing but studio rhetoric from writers/directors who are completely ignorant to their own lack of talent.
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Wait, wrong overdone franchise, sorry!
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On the flip side Spider-man 3 is a bottom 5. I still can't believe that I have to live in a world with a horrendous SM3 film. I'm still crushed.
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movies. Far better than X Men, FF, etc.
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Stalkeye:
You can get a copy for twelve bucks at Sam's Club. It is totally worth it for that price.
I hated all the other SM games that have come out except WoS. I do enjoy him as a character in Ultimate Alliance 1 and 2. I don't HATE Toby in these movies, but the guy who did the voice work for UA 1 or 2 did a better job capturing Spidey's sense of humor.
I have just been catching up on the Ultimate Spider-Man comics. I have to say Parker is way to damn whiny and emo in them. That and the fact that everyone else at his school sounds like the fucking script of Juno. I'm getting to old for this shit it seems. I just want to cave in the head of every last fucking snarky hipster in current media. -
I still can't believe that I have to live in a world where any human being with an IQ above 3 could possibly have Spider-Man 2 on their Top 5 list.
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You assholes were the only ones um "confused"..everyone else just thought it was a piece of shit.
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From the subtle hints that the dark suit had begun to take over Peter Parker's life (culminating, of course, in the scene which showed the costume's effect on Peter's personality through the language of dance - a truly inspired move by the writer and director), to the way in which the audience's previous beliefs in who had killed Peter's uncle were pulled out from beneath them, this movie was one of the greatest superhero movies of all time and surely must be ranked above the previous entries.Please give us a Spider-Man 4 on par with the previous entries. There are those who do not fully appreciate the glory of the second sequel but, in time, its majesty will be truly seen.
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I hear you.
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Ingrates!(with thanks to Nerd_Rage for the rectification).
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Through it all, they still could call each other "buddy" over and over again during that final battle. Never have there been greater BFFs. Then Sandman left because he said he was sorry. I truely understand the meaning of forgiveness now.
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Through it all, they still could call each other "buddy" over and over again during that final battle. Never have there been greater BFFs. Then Sandman left because he said he was sorry. I truely understand the meaning of forgiveness now.
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...are the same idiots who think Jar Jar Binks was what was wrong with the prequels. The actual problem was far more profound.
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The forgiveness scene. Yeah, i really liekd that by the end, Peter Parker forgave his uncle's murderer for his bad deed. and you know what? It's quite a very mature scene for a comic book movie whihc is mostly aimed for teens and kids. Yeah, imjagine that, a movie made for teens which holds up friendship and reconciliation as higher values then agressiveness and revenge. Of course, the geeks fucking hated it.Yeah, the movie has flaws. Too many for my taste. But not that many flaws as the geeks would make us believe. And hardly the disaster the geeks make it out to be as well. But then again, this is the place where people kisses the ass of Michael Bay and Jar Jar Abrams and jumped in the couch in utter delight to the piece of shit movies that are Transformers and The You-Know-What Pseudo-SF Movie That Pretends To Be Something Else But Is In Fact A Remake Of Star Wars.
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...for his exquisite sarcasm. I'd join him, except that I was way too drunk by the third act to actually remember all the shit that was wrong with it.
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One silly dance THAT'S SUPPOSED TO LOOK SILLY so to demosntrate and show what a jerk and a pathetic fool the hero became, and that ruined the movie? I guess this is what hapepns when people automatically shut down the brain when they enter the theaters, to get their FUUUUUUUN fix. Guess what, in some movies, you migth need to brain on. Even comic book movies.
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you base all you opinions on other peoples opinions of a movie that no-one has seen. that is just plain stupid. drag me to hell was not trying to be an 80's movie. you obviously have not seen drag me to hell. douchebag
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Wait, if he lived in you he'd probably either make you articulate and rational or make you kill yourself. Never mind.
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Idiot
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Oct 16, 2009 3:33:59 PM CDT
BGDAWES "Cookin the books" started with the whole Peter Jackson
by dogsoup
from 2007 fighting over LotR profits. They since made up and now we're getting The Hobbit 1 and 2 and "Cookin the Books.." has gone the way of " Sexy Tomboy beanpole" and " with Hulk Hogan as the baddie..."
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then no-one will ever take you seriously, in anything you do.
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I agree. My problems with Spidey 3 are not the immature banter about the film but more so on the narrative: there was a disconnect with the plot. The characters don't feel like they're the same characters from the previous movies, even Parker. Also, nothing gets fully realized: the green Goblin, Sandman and Venom subplots were just painted in such broad strokes that it was hard for me to get into their conflicts.
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Oct 16, 2009 3:35:04 PM CDT
That dance even ruined the movie for those who didn't see it
by cylon_conspiracy
But yeah. Sometimes you have to judge things for yourself.
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The lamest Villan since the Mole man and Stilt Man IF Raimi oicks the Vulture Count me out.
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Neither are as hellishly bad as some people make them out to be; both are a big letdown from their predecessor.
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Kraven the Hunter. What the jesus titty fuck. They said they need a villain that impedes Petey's progress as an individual, howabout a guy who hunts you constantly? And shit, with Kraven all you need is ONE villain to worry about.....
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Oct 16, 2009 3:44:33 PM CDT
Can everyone stop ragging on Super Mario 3 !!!....Please !!!
by formerenglandpropjasonleonard
........ah.....doesn't matter.....
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It should have been the Lizard in the first place for 3. Then Raimi can make a bit of a monster movie. However, not a "dark" "intense" movie that's anything BUT for the "kids" ... Come on, it's fucking Spider-Man for the love of god. Angsty, mopey? Yes. Dark? No.
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Conners turns into the Lizard, Kraven hunts the Lizard, Spidey tries to stop Kraven and help Conners. MJ dies. Ask JettL, he knows.
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He had said in the past that he hated Venom and he didn't want to to do a Venom movie. It seems the studio pressured him into Venom because they had to out do Spiderman 2.
It is was pretty clear Raimi had no passion for the character. He rushed the whole storyline and didn't give it the attention it should have gotten if they were going to do it. They could have easily made Venom or the Harry version of Green Goblin into their own movie without any other villians.
Now that Raimi has fulfilled his comitment to Sony for Venom, he can focus on villians he gives a shit about. It should make for a better movie. -
Raimi's version was better than the comics. As I said before - and will again - Venom is a lame character.
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Oct 16, 2009 3:50:37 PM CDT
Recasting everyone is the best way to make Spidey 4!
by hollywoodhellraiser
Tobey and Kristen HAVE NOT AND NEVER WIll be Peter and Mary Jane! Get rid of these two and maybe the franchise has a chance!
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Oct 16, 2009 3:52:22 PM CDT
Thunderbolt Ross, actually you do hyphenate spider-man
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
have you ever read a spider-man comic?
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Whether You like Venom or Not Raimi Had a oppurtunity to evolve the Character to the something more then it was, instead he treated it like a retarded stepchild and the movie suffered. I think It proves That Raimi will damn a movie to point of it sucking, if he does not get his way.
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You guys know Black Dynamite comes out today? Right?
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3 movies of setting up connors with no lizard is giving me spidey blueballs
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of the comics too
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jesus christ he is the natural enemy of the spider,and they havent yet put him in the franchise? And Mysterio too,or maybe Chameleon,they could be used to manipulate spiderman in various ways.
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if he's in the movie they better not change his costume. best villain costume ever.
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for the Commodore 64. You'd type in "Walk left", and then Spider Man would walk left.
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was that stupid Tony Stark Spiderman costume I'd rather read any issue related to Venom instead of seeinf Spidey in that Gay Pride parade costume.
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i agree he is one of my favs,and yes he has one fucking cool costume.
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...All this Spidey talk got me thinking about the kick-ass ride at Universal in Florida. Jesus, that thing effing rocks hard... Anyway, I hope Raimi learned that he needs to put Alison Lohman in wet clothing in ALL his films from now on.
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Oct 16, 2009 4:14:19 PM CDT
Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength I did actually say that already
by thunderbolt ross
Have you ever read the post?
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or Gibbon or Stiltman pr Rocket Racer or Big Wheel
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It was The Sixth Day. Talk about making a stupid movie stupid AND confusing. Gawd, did I have some people pissed off at me
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the fans did, im one of those fans. I'm not willing to let raimi off the hook for messing up venom just because he always said he didnt 'get' venom...i guess i should respect what the artist making the movie wants (it ultimately leads to a better movie if the main guy behind it is behind every aspect of it) but hell, its the 3rd movie, the fans really wanted venom, and its a multi-billion dollar franchise.. take a few weeks and get to understand venom. talk to super fans, go to a convention or two.. LEARN venom. just throwing him in to please fans with a shitty story and death is only going to piss EVERYONE off.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NWiiWbDDiE&feature=related
take out the promethium x thing at the beginning with the kingpin and rhino and you have a fantastic setpiece that replaces the stupid "meteor" origin for venom and ties the story into spider-man 2. -
should have been spidey ripping off the alien suit in the bell tower. you see a flash of venom, roll credits. peter nearly, no... actually killing harry should have been the catalyst for this scene. pimp smacking MJ shouldnt have even been in the picture. tackling sandman could bave been done while he was in the black suit (totally different scene in my mind here)
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it could be done.
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I do not understand the hate. They effed up Venom, but that does not mean they would ef it up again. Just make Carnage the greatest villain in comic movie history. No mercy, slaughtering, pure evil demon. Have him kill MJ right off the bat. It sways from the comics but would not be the first time. The Carnage haters are not thinking about the possibility of this character.
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With Sandman being the one who killed Uncle Ben... ?!?! That part of the orign story is what all of Spider-Man is built on and in pt.3 it's "Oh yeah, by the way, who you thought killed your uncle and led you into becoming the hero you are... Not the guy. Sorry. It was really Sandman. So all of that guilt and responsibility crap - you can just throw all of that out."
Sheesh. I don't even care about a 4th now. Made part one completely useless. -
He was strong-armed into adding Venom due to the character's popularity. The script was re-written, re-packaged and re-polished so many times its not funny. I think Ivan and Sam's original vision of a film with Sandman and Vulture would've been much better. I still look forward to the next installment.
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I have to say I think the movies have just been in a slide ever since the first one, which at least I enjoyed as a typical origin film.On the flip side, I never understood the uber love for SPIDEY 2 -- frankly, I was bored for about half of it and then finally some action started to take place. I still can't watch that movie on DVD or if it's on TV unless I come in around the midpoint when things start to take off. Otherwise its a total snoozefest.As for SPIDEY 3, don't get me started. What a fucking mess. What pissed me off the most was how they handled Gwen Stacy. The casting of Howard was as off as the casting of Dunst as Mary Jane. NEITHER looked the part and, when you consider how many hotties are out in Hollywood, it's amazing that Sony managed to completely miscast BOTH roles. Worst of all, Raimi and crew TOTALLY BOTCHED the power of the Gwen Stacy/Green Goblin storyline by pimping it for the first movie, where they bastardized it even more.Frankly, I'd be happier if they just let the Spidey movies rest for awhile and then recast and restarted a new in about 10 more years, after the memories of these had finally passed.
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and if you disagree you do too.
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Don't get it. I'd watch Spidey 2 before I'd sit through Superman Returns.
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Loved spidey 1&2.Thought 3 was just ok. Would've been better without VENOM.He was a distraction. Topher is a good actor,but would've rather seen him as Electro! Vemon should,IF HE MUST BE IN A FILM,have been in the LAST SPIDEY FILM.I do think that sam will redeem himself with 4.
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"I had a blast!" Harry Knowles on SPIDERMAN 3.
AICN praised the fuck out of this pos. Man - how anyone can describe rough diamond genre films like HIGHLANDER, TERMINATOR SALVATION, and FRANKENSTEIN as irredeemable turds, and then celebrate the banal nothingness of SPIDERMAN 3 and VAN HELSING is beyond me.
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in that the whole theater turned on the movie right around the same time and went from interested, to bored, to amused as a group. We were all laughing at the same bits and slapping our foreheads in unison. Crappy movie but I had a good time watching it.
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Spider-man 3 definitely seemed disjointed. Harry Osborn's Green Sky-Surfer was stupid and the Sandman had no clear connection with Venom, other than they were both fluid-type characters. Now, Sandman and Hydro-man would have been an interesting combination. Anyway...
Spider-man 4 should start with a rampaging Rhino robbing banks and stuff, but instead of being stopped by Spider-man, he's captured by Kraven the Hunter who happens to be in town to try and capture The Lizard instead.
The Rhino is only seen for the first 10 or 15 minutes of the movie while the rest of the film is about The Lizard and Spider-man both trying to evade Kraven the Hunter, Spider-Man trying to help his friend, Dr. Curt Connors, rid himself of The Lizard alter-ego, and Kraven the Hunter trying to land a trio of New York animals, a spider, a lizard, and a rhino.
Flame away! -
Stop using shitty excuses Raimi. You sound like McG using his name as the reason people hated Terminator Salvation. SM3 sucked due to poor execution, not because it had multiple villians.
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2 villians is not a lot. Dark Knight did it well, X Men 2 did it well. It's just how they write them. Oh, and please don't have Kristen Dunst ever sing again. Thank you and God Bless.
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and barely resembles a college age Peter Parker. Stop paying that prick millions to do his half assed, mouth breather version of Spidey. It's a waste of everybody's time, except Maguire who laughs all the way to the bank.
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IS THAT BASIC ENOUGH FOR YA? or caps enuf?
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I am no fan of Venom by any means, but I do respect that a lot of people like him. The problem with Venom in 3 wasn't just that Raimi doesn't like the character, it's that the character was forced in the movie by the stuffed shirts upstairs who never read the comics, but knew there was a giant fanbase for Venom so they demanded Raimi put him in to secure a better profit. I'd think that after the first 2 movies did so well, they should have expected 3 to do as well, and if it didn't, THEN put Venom in a movie to recover.
I remember hearing early on that there was a plan to make 6 Spider-Man movies. I thought it would be perfect if they split it into 2 trilogies, first a Goblin Trilogy with a lot of Silver Age influences, then do a symbiote trilogy. First have Peter acquire the symbiote in 4, and use it to help him beat whatever baddie he fought. Then at the end of 4 or beginning of 5 he removes the symbiote, and fights Venom in 5. Then part 6 could introduce Carnage. This gives plenty of time to flesh out the storyline so it's done a little bit more proper. -
...Bruce Campbell as Kraven, a genetic scientist and colleage of Dr Connors, who transforms Connors and two ex-cons (oh say Michael Clarke Duncan as Rhino, and some longfaces not-too-ugly actor as Vulture) into hybrid mutants like Peter Parker has become. Or else I don't care and won't shell out money to see it.
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Stryker, Magneto, Lady Deathstrike, Mystique, and Pryo at the end.
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FUCK
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It's gonna suck we all know it. It's gonna have the same lackluster wooden acting, the same wussy Peter Parker, the same uninspiring not struck with awe spider-man scenes, the same simple gotta save mary jane plot, the starring into the headlights two pulse an hour tobey maquire, the same spider-man without a sense of humor, did I mention waterdowned acting ?? I'm tired, so tired of Sam fucking Raimi throwing out lackluster SPider-Man films when films like Iron Man, Incredible Hulk, Batman Begins, Dark Knight, and Leonard part 6 are out there and we have to have dancing emo spider-man crying over sandmans shoulders with a dose of thin venom and the cheapy designed new goblin. Everyone should boycott it, you're gonna be dissapointed. Please, please GOD revamp this shit please!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!!!
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He's obviously ran out of ideas for the franchise. He's running on fumes at this point but clutches to spider-man out of flat out greed.
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ASS SHITER
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guy you know all of 10 mins going on and on about how much he loves his wifw
And shes that chick that always looks like she smells something bad
and shes looking at you -
am i the ONLY person who thinks this????
...that the Lizard/Dr Connors SHOULD have been Bruce Campbell from the first movie????
... not only does Raimi already have a supposedly cool relationship with Campbell, but the dude looks almost EXACTLY like the Dr Connors i remember in my comic books!!!!
... ummm, yeah...instead, lets give Campbell some lame, bit-parts as a different character every time!
nice move there, d-bags...
i dont dislike Dylan Baker , but c'mon, he is NOT the Lizard... literally EVERYONE was miscast in these vomit-inducing films (maybe not Dafoe, but it doesnt matter, he's dead/gone)
so...
hmmmm....
bad casting? check
bad acting? check
bad stories? check
awful cgi? check
(btw, how is that even fucking POSSIBLE with 200mill budgets??)
awful director? check
i would like to see Carnage just go fucking nuts and kill a ton of people...
and i SWEAR... if Spidey's mask gets ripped or just taken off again (during a battle or in public), i am going to burst into one thousand, tiny explosions of disgust. the end.
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Watching the lizard rampaging for 100 minutes would suck. You need Kraven to add a compelling story and unlike the Venom/Sandman combo it actually makes sense.
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I mean, really, what the fuck? I've never seen a group of people bitch more about something they hate. What a waste of time and energy. The movie sucked. Move on. There's nothing you can do about it now. Bitching and moaning will get you nowhere. Don't even lie and try to tell me that it makes you feel better, I'm not buying it. Spider-Man 3 will be a bad movie until the end of time. None of you have a time traveling Delorean and can change that. You're shit out of luck. Get. The. Fuck. Over. It. You. Dumb. Douches.
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Sony was the real problem. I recently watched Spidey 3(Yes! I have it, I know) with commentary on-which made the whole movie more interesting to watch. And every one on the track acknowledged that Sony kept sticking their noses and changing things on them, so they really didn’t know what was going to be done on a day by day bases. Venom was thrown in late because the studio wanted to cash in with his popularity, but with no real story to add to the movie. And the casting was just plain awful. Everything about this movie was doomed from the get go. So the excuse of having too many villains is crap. It’s having too many people involved with making the movie that was/is the problem. Fucking studios are usually the ones adding shit that really isn’t necessary or useful.
Since they fucked up Venom, now I really don’t want to see the Lizard. I do like the idea of having Spidey at a different location like some one mentioned. I’m tired of N.Y. as the center piece. Have Mysterio or even the Shocker wrecking havoc in another state and have Spidey do his thing; WITHOUT MJ, Gwen, or any one else. Just a straight up superhero movie. I really do hope that Sam learned something, or else we will get just another shitty superhero movie to bitch about. -
LIKE IN THE NEWSPAPER
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Needs a psychologal evalution, because I swear, he's either trolling or Raimi is his PROBATION OFFICER. scary.
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DR STRANGE CAMEO would rule
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It's the silliest things ever posted by crazy people.
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shit tits
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Oct 16, 2009 5:44:26 PM CDT
WHAT if PUCK GETS WASTED AND SLEEPS ON PETERS COUCH
by the green gargantua
you would fucking eat your own shit for sure in geekgasm xtacy, dont lie.
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Just as many villians as SM3 yet Dark Knight is one of the best superhero movies ever made.
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and talk shit on Alpha Flight.
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Make movies that take place in the Marvel universe where you mom is getting it deep dicked by Namor bitch.
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I made 2 comments directly about Raimi. How is that scary? Get your tongue out of Raimi's ass.
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Maybe there is a road block because The Sentry fell down from sky like a comet from my cock.
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But atleast Raimi is able to admit that. Bring on "Spiderman 4" and "Evil Dead 4: This time it's personal!" lol :)
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I know one of the storyboard/previz artist from the moive and he said it was a total mess because of the studio. They forced Venom into the movie. Also they would make changes to the script... then change their minds about the changes after being changed...THEN THEY WOULD CHANGE THIER MINDS AGIAN! So Sam worked with the pile of shit the studio had created the best he could.
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So I really enjoyed the first 2 SM films but Raimi mad e acouple of mistakes, which I think of as unpardonable sins because I am a giant comic book nerd:
1. It shoulda been Gwen Stacy on that bridge, and she shoulda DIED. Arguably, this event (possibly even moreso than the death of Uncle Ben) CREATED Spiderman. Pulling the BS that SM can have it both ways betrays what he's all about.
2. Willem DeFoe as Green Goblin? CHECK. Puttin him in the most ri-fucking-diculous mask that hides his expressive (and very Green Goblin-esque) face? FAIL. BIG FAIL.
3. Casting Kirsten Dunst as MJ. MJ i supposed to be out of his league smokin hot. Kirsten Dunst is definitely NOT. She is a homely, female Keanu Reeves. No acting chops. At all.
End of line. -
I can't really put my finger on why I don't like the Spider Man franchise as a whole, but the third one was devoid of heart and purpose. It was silly without being funny, unfocused, and just plain bland. I think Raimi should really move on. I don't think Drag Me To Hell is the sublime piece of genius that everyone else does, but I enjoyed it. I think it would be wise for Raimi to work on other stuff, but he's just a masochist for nerdrage.
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Spider-Man 3 - this time will Spidey actually hunt down the bad guys rather than just sit around until his piece of ass gets kidnapped -AGAIN !!!
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Don't even lie because it would make you look gay.
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and to be honest, he can't do much worse than Spidey 3..!
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Oct 16, 2009 6:11:07 PM CDT
Also, The Punisher should be the next Spiderman villain
by liesandpicturesofalsolies
The character has its roots in spiderman and having an hero vs anti-hero thing could be interesting.
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Being attracted to her is a sign of closet hosexuality or possibly the need for eye surgery.
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Fanboys weep.
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I WILL FUCK DUNST AND CORGAN. CLOAK & DAGGER RULE.
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except Aunt May and JJJ has seen his face now
That's another *Unpardonable Sin*
The constant unmaskings -
I'll admit right here and right now I like fucking hos.
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My left testicle is named Devil Dinosaur.
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but my cock is called Galactus.
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i have my own imitator! hi, Nerd Rage, now don't get star struck because i mentioned your name!
donduck, yes Nerd Rage is trolling. and he is imitating the true original, Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength! ask for it by name! -
to obscure though, i think. though they should make an appearance in the Runaways movie. (not the runaways movie that stars the chick from twilight. the marvel runaways)
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Oct 16, 2009 6:43:30 PM CDT
Tobey Maguire looked like he didn't want to be there last time
by bbbbeeeennnn
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Oct 16, 2009 6:45:28 PM CDT
Thunderbolt , what-ever (see what i did there?)
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
i agree with you, though, that venom sucks
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Impossible you say? Nothings impossible in comics! Have a flashback to Norman Osborn's body laying in the mortuary about to be embalmed. His body has regenerated and he wakes up and kills the embalmer and puts him in the coffin meant for him. Osborn has several hidden caches of Goblin gear and money. He's spent the last couple of years planning his revenge. Have him kill Mary Jane and injure Aunt May. The result: one really pissed off Spiderman. Oh, and no Power Rangers outfit for Gobby, make it a grotesgue latex mask exactly like the comics.
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Why the hell are people clamoring for a old man in flight suit. It like lets get Tony stark age him 50 years and take 90% of his powers are you serious The Vulture is the Lamest Bastard in Marvel stable Maybe he'd be acceptable for a Squirrel Girl Movie.
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"She Hulk is major jerk off material"
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video game.
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THe Vulture looks like he would fully adult touch the shit out of you.
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I had this handle for a long time. Check the Transformer 2 talkbacks, noob. And being called a troll by you is ironic to say the least.
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fuck a spider man, MAKE A JESSICA DREW MOVIE. PETER PARKER IS A TURD LICKER
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as in anyone who prefers a gollum looking Kristen Dunst over a real woman.
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Like ROM: SPACE KNIGHT. But I would watch this fuck out of a ROM movie. I HATE MYSELF
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Spider Woman's costume has making Galactus happy since her shitty cartoon was on. The fuck does that mean?
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Anyone who was not educated in America's public schools could easily understand what was going on. As for "too many villains" you don't have to worry about that in SM4 because they won't follow the same pattern even if the critics didn't have a problem.
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as in any typo nazi who comments on misspelleings.
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have a tall glass of shut the fuck up.
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to a transformers 2 talkback. that is gay as fuck. and you are a straight up troll, imitator.you must be someone that i "corrected" earlier in this talkback. sorry i made you cry
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An than THE WATCHER shows up, you know the way he does.
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on the end of his cock.
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Oct 16, 2009 7:05:31 PM CDT
p.s. who the hell uses the term noob anymore?
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
pwned!!!! (see what i did there?)
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Oct 16, 2009 7:07:02 PM CDT
I AM, AS I AM EVERYTHING. LOOK INTO MY EYES AND ADORE ME
by the green gargantua
WHEN THEY DO THE PYM movies they should include the MIRCONAUTS , than u can toss a salad.
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I say add the Sinister Six and have the Punisher hunting them AND killing some of the Six. You know the Vulture would be the first to be killed but the Punisher. Yeah, I can see it now, the old man grabbling for life as the Punisher stares coldly down at him and BLAM! Pops a cap in the bird's head. Spidey is torn about feeling guilty that a life is lost-AGAIN and feeling good that a dangerous criminal is off the streets. Then at the end we have Spidey, Punisher AND Kraven, have a 3-way fight to the finish. Did I mention that this all takes place in Alaska, where the vamp creatures from 30 DAYS OF NIGHT make their appearance for a true blood bath.
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Do you taste that? I am filling you with wisdom, pay no mind to it's flavor (i know it tastes like pee)
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http://tinyurl.com/yg87bch
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Can I buy a costume like that? SHE IS SO BADASS, hail BENDIS you spunk smugglers.
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Unless you really have learned your lesson... I don't get all the love for SpiderMan2 either, I recall being rather annoyed with it; alternately bored and miffed at missed opprotunities. Oh, well. Yeah, Drag Me To Hell wasn't genuis, but it was rewarding... Forget Spiderman4 Raimi; get that Zander dude from Buffy or some other Bruce clone, if Bruce isn't interested, and just do Evil Dead 4: Hail To The King~!
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Oct 16, 2009 7:16:03 PM CDT
DUNST IS HOT LIKE THOSE GIRLS THT USED2b ON MILKCARTONS
by the green gargantua
LIKE BEAT RUNN AWAY WHITE TRASH THAT LIVES WITH you for a few weeks and steals your shit when you are gone. But were fun to screw in a half awake necro sort of way.
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Oct 16, 2009 7:19:02 PM CDT
I want to read an AlPHA FLIGHT spinoff called GO PUCK YOURSELF
by the green gargantua
or PUCK OFF maybe GET PUCKED.
It entails the sexual escapades of the Marvel Canadian midget. -
how many super whores he has slain with his giant man size member.
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But I didn't even bother to buy the Spiderman 3 DVD...
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Okay, so I haven’t read the entire long thread above, so forgive me if I’m repeating others’ thoughts – but one of my big problems with the whole franchise? They (Sam & the studio) fucked up the women. Kirsten Dunst is too vanilla pretty and whiny, nicey-nice and bland – this is supposed to be MJ?? Nope – this is really Gwen Stacy who should have been killed off in the first film to really mess up Pete’s world. But then in 3, they truck in Gwen out of sequence – God only knows why (I read somewhere that, like Venom, it was “for the fans” – oy) – and this Gwen is a kicky, spunky bombshell who MODELS (whaaaa??) – hmmmm, does this sound like the Gwen Stacy of old…OR MJ?? Bryce Howard was actually kinda fun, but she woulda made a great Mary Jane not Gwen. But now the continuity is a complete mess. Sony, Sam – please kill off Dunst’s MJ, bring in the Black Cat, and let’s drop this pseudo-Gwen. I won’t go into all the fuck-ups on the villains in 3 - but people keep talking about the New Goblin in 3 – there was a Goblin in that film? Really? Cuz all I saw was Ninja Guy on a flying snowboard. And what has also been bad for the series is the insistence on Maguire spending so much time as Spidey with his mask off. Nobody needs to see your face, Tobey! The mask needs to stay ON, for fuck’s sake!
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but why not a Morbius The Living Vampire? Than I can get my FUCKING DR STRANGE CAMEO PISS WHORE!!!!!!!!!!!
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Into the Baloneyverse
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neez
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my cock is doing pushups.
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Oct 16, 2009 7:37:23 PM CDT
Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength ABOUT THAT THING ON MY COCK,
by the green gargantua
I got it from you MOTHER.
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IT COULD HABE YOUR DAD, eather way you may wanna talk to them, get em to the clinic.
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That Winstead chick should be MJ.
Top quality womanstuff..accept no muppet faced substitutes. -
We are in agreement, there needs to be a DR. STRANGE cameo in the next gay as fuck Spider Pussy movie.
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Do you understand though that my original post was that you're supposed to hyphenate it? It's really important to me that that is clear to you.
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BOOBS ARE AWESOME
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Morbius! How the hell can I foreget him! Use Morbius in a dark Spidey movie. I will be the next Dark Knight. Seriously. Have Morbius be a Jack the Ripper type killer as Spidey tries to track him down and stop the murders. But don't have MJ in or have her killed. Those are the only options for her.
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UNDER MINE RULE, A RULE TEN THOUSAND SCORE.
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And X2 had a kind of villainous team (as did the first and last X men movies) - those are team oriented movies, it's not the same.But yeah Two Face was almost as rushed-seeming as Venom was.
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FIT IN THE MORBIUS SCRIPT? I think so.
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While Two Face was rushed, Harvey Dent was not. AT least, Dent had his time to shine unlike Brock, which felt like an after thought.
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That's true but that's what made it a slight bummer that they did Two Face that way. THe movie went from great to just good.
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The Deadly Duplicator from Harvey Birdman
And they both have similar beefs with the universe -
Harvey was very well developed character. How can you call him rushed? You seem to think the transformation at the end to Two Face was the only facet of his character... his push to insanity made perfect sense, as he was physically and mentally scarred in one moment. Harvey was practically the main character throughout the entire film. And The Joker was the catalyst for his transformation. I've never seen two villains interwoven better than that.
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There's a lot of response to this very small bit of info. I started to read the talkbacks, and it was just mainly crying and belly-aching about Spiderman 3, which is boring since I've been reading crying and belly-aching about Spiderman 3 on this website for a fucking-ass-long-time. Do you pukes who hate Spiderman 3 ever achieve catharsis? Ever? If you haven't yet, could you please do me a favor and get over it already? Me personally I'm a Raimi fan and I'm glad he's involved in Spiderman 4.
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... and there are certainly many (no use of spider-sense throughout the whole movie?) people are wrong to assume it's all Raimi's fault. He has said in the past (albeit tactfully and discreetly, as he has enough manners not to shit on his employers) that there were too many cooks in the kitchen and that Venom being added to the script at literally the 11th hour (after the film had started shooting) at Avi Arad's insistence derailed what could have been a good film. Now he has final cut and artistic freedom, and I think Gary Ross writing the film is a very, very good sign.
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No more suicidal Peter Parkers for christ sake!!!
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Oct 16, 2009 8:42:08 PM CDT
two face's storyline was my favortie part of the dark knight
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
batman and jokers 2 story lines tied into the rise and fall of harvey dent so perfectly it was impossible not to love. and eckhart was so fucking amazing in the role it made me really see how juvenile spider-man 3's attempt to tie everything together was. the dark knight is like having hot sex with kate beckinsale; spiderman 3 is like being anally raped by your stepdad.
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Oct 16, 2009 8:47:33 PM CDT
Green Gargantua, if you fucked my mom or dad
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
then you deserve what ever diseases you get. you have horrible taste in sex partners. you should know better than to fuck the parents of Nerd_Rage_Retard_Strength!
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BEAR WILL EAT (in Hell)
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Then he became Two Face for 10 minutes before Nolan killed him off. What a cockup. The Dark Knight sucks.
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We will never see the Sinister Six on screen? Sad face.
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Two Face for 10 minutes was better than most villains for an entire movie. What brilliance. The Dark Knight rawks.
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That's the kind of nonsense a fan wouldn't shoehorn into a movie. The origin was handled pretty well in the first movie, then Sam went back and messed with it. As much as I love Sam.
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I'm all for a new take. a whole reboot. im so fucking over raimies universe. i want a new take. I don't care if they tell the same story a different way. but i'm just not interested in anymore cartoon spidey in from of american flags, his stupid fucking girlfriend hating him and dumping him and looking doey eyed, and ... shit im just over it!!
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Oct 16, 2009 9:32:49 PM CDT
Spectacular Spider-Man is 10X better than the movies!
by hollywoodhellraiser
You get the real sense of Peter Parker/Spider-Man who can be joking one moment and serious the next.The storyline isn't even 616 and yet its a fun, exciting cartoon!Raimi needs to take notes!And for chrissake, PLEASE RECAST TOBEY AND KRISTEN at some point so the franchise can live!
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So what lesson did he learn from that?
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There are some irritating things about all of them, not just the third. 1)Why does peter bother getting in costume, if he's just going to take off/lose his mask as soon as the battles start? Everyone in NY pretty much knows his face by now. They should have called the second one "Spider-Man unmasked". 2)The Green Goblin looks like he gets his orders from Rita Repulsa, and Gobby Jr looks like Marty McFly riding his hover board on his way to a paint ball tournament(and to think they spend MILLIONS developing this crap.) 3)Mary Jane is a jagged little pill. She brings every scene she's in to a screeching halt. Send her off to Hollywood to seek Stardom or whatever. Peter could bawl like a baby for a few seconds, then wise up and get with Gwen and/or the Land Lord's Daughter.
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Weren't they setting up that skinny girl in Peter's building for something? Sure seemed like it...
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I don't blame Raimi for Spider-Man 3. I don't blame the studio. I blame all the mewling, empty-headed jag-off Venom fans who wouldn't shut the hell up about shoving that low-rent 90's comic book garbage into a movie.
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He's a stand-up guy, and I'm sure he learned from his mistakes, but I had no interest in seeing him come back to this series. Nor did I want Tobey or Kirsten back; they should have had Jake Gyllenhaal as Spidey and Alicia Witt as MJ. Oh well, maybe someone will reboot this franchise one day.
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I think she's cute, and unlike MJ, she seems to actually CARE about Peter. I doubt they'll ever do much with her tho. Personally, I'd love to see turn out to be the movie universe's Black Cat.
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The problem with this franchise is that it never was clearly mapped out. A scene has structure and an arc; a movie has structure and an arc; and a damn series of movies has a structure and an arc. The template for all movie series is Star Wars (the originals, not those horrible prequels) because the entire series had an overreaching arc - destroy the empire.
I'm not saying you need some master villain for Spider-Man to stop, but they could have built this entire thing around one constant factor in Peter's life - his love life. The entire film series should have been built around finding Gwen, losing Gwen, and then finding MJ. If done right this damn thing could have gone on for six or seven movies, and worked beautifully.
But nope, they blew this. They might make some decent movies, but they will never recover IMO and make this series as good as it could have been because of one bad decision from the beginning - doing a truncated version of the Death of the Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy in the first movie. They fucking blew their load, and it turned out to only be a few drops. -
As long as they can work together. SPIDER-MAN 3 was an example of using three villains that don't work on screen together. But as long as the villains compliment each other story wise, I don't think the number of villains matter.
In part 3 they should of had the Vulture instead of Venom because at least he is a plotter of sorts. He is also weak, so he would need a strongarm hence why you could use Sandman. It would be like the old Bond films of master villain and henchmen. Same thing with Kraven and Lizard - they compliment each other.
Hell, I imagine you could even get up to six villains...as long as they were sinister. -
JAMMIN HIS SPACE PIRATE INTO THAT SKUNK GIRL?
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Oct 16, 2009 10:50:45 PM CDT
I reflected on it when I was trying to hook up with a very hairy
by the green gargantua
hot lady.
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but it was EVERYWHERE.
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If he thinks 'too many villains' was the main problem, then he is destined to make another lousy Spider-Man movie. The only thing to be realizd from Raimi doing Drag Me To Hell is that he was capable of doing an even worse movie than Spider-Man 3.
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Spider-man 4- Opening fight, Mystiro(brucecampbell) and spiderman fighting. Fight goes on for awhile spiderman breaks his helmet and reveals that it is bruce cambell getting an awesome role. Story builds up a bit a few crimes stopped. Then J.j. jamason yells rants and raves about a giant lizard attacking the city. Peter goes to school finds out that connor's has been slipping out at night. J.j. jamason releases news of giant lizard attacking city. Kraven hears about this and wishes to hunt this great beast. Spider-man searces for connor's(aka the lizard) to try and help him with a cure he made with connors wife. Spiderman finds out why connors has been turning into the lizard and fights occur with kraven and the lizard and spiderman. kraven is not happy with spider-man getting in the way and decides to head hunt for spiderman to. Every thing in this post of course would be put into an order that makes sense. also I would drop hints of the green goblin being alive becuase of that crap he filled himself with.
Spider-man 5- green goblin returns along with kraven still out for spider-man. Black cat will appear in this one.
spider-man 6- sinister six.
sadly what will more than likley not occur. I would love to happen. -
I HAVE BEEN WAITING AGES! YOU SAID AFTER DRAG ME TO HELL THEN YOU WOULD MAKE EVIL DEAD 4!!!!!!!
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Not because it's not a good movie. But it happened to attract the worst movie going demographic ever amassed within the confines of a theater. The audience completely fucking ruins this movie. Guys, yes guys screaming like they're little fucking girls at a Hillary Duff concert. I actually enjoyed it though, I prefer psychological scary movies over the slasher or torture based ones. I've never seen so many adolescents at a fucking rated R movie in my life. No way these dipshits were above 18. Also, I've never witnessed so much collective screaming during a movie. I definitely recommend waiting at least 3 weeks to view it at a Theater or wait for the Rental. This was the wort movie going experience in my life.
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Hope this doesn't get me kicked off (petty fanboys) but the update from LS Donner on Collider.com is worth a gander. They are actually serious about First Class - as a Harry Potter clone? Wtf?
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Every fucking time she gives information it's nothing substantial. It's always speculation, what-ifs and we'll see. She one media savage bitch.
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Into babies. Yeah the Vulture is great Idea..............for me to poop on.
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Oct 17, 2009 1:19:49 AM CDT
Phategod2, I will tell you one guy who loves the Vulture
by continentalop
Roger f-ing Stern, The man who made the Hobgoblin and the second best Spider-Man writer ever (wrote "The Boy Who Collects Spider-Man" and "No Once Can Stop the Juggernaut").
To quote him "People who don't get the Vulture don't really understand Spider-Man." -
All he's given us are stale lines, B-movie villains, and a morose, quiet Spidey who spends more time crying than he does kicking butt or making with snappy dialogue. I say they reboot the whole thing and bring it in with the Marvel Movies. Yeah, I know Sony has the license, but they should totally wait it out. Let it rest. Like they did with the Batman movies. Sure, Spidey 3 was a success, but it's freakin atrocious!
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Just get on the treadmill Bruce, and ham it up, I will be there. Leave Topher Grace as the unemployed actor that he currently is. We don't need Venom, it would be cool to have Lizard though
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Can we get an actual actor?
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WHEN CAN WE GET COSCMIC? I LIKE THE INHUMANS.
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...please with sugar on top. PLEASE keep his fucking mask ON!!!! Also, loosing half his mask in the first 3 seconds of every fight is my major annoyance in the Spiderman movies. I don't care that you can't see the emotion in Toby's eyes, frankly I don't want to see his eyes, ever!!! KEEP HIS FUCKING MASK ON!!! Rant off...
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You would have something resembling a decent movie. Someone should try this as a fan edit.
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Rami's films are always all over the place, long gaps of nothing, and the clunky humor they always try to fit in is as bad as all the Zena/Hurcules tv stuff. Everyone is miscast.
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He's sooooo cornball. Why do you guys want him in everything?
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take away all that gloss. give it some grit. make it look REAL. Is it just me who can't stand all the cartoony visual effects?
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SM gets exposed to plad kryptonite and turns into a middle aged man running around in under-roos making thwip noises with his mouth
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That'as my bane in her,e i'm the rational one among the girly over-emotional geeks whose only desire is to have mindless brainless dumb FUUUUUUUUUUN!
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until they got it right with Carnage. And Venom is boring like shit. Sam Raimi is right. Small wonder SM3 looks so dispirited whenever the movie has to deal with that failure of a character.
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How we get this same damn argument every time Spider-man 3 gets a mention. It's been dissected and analysed enough now.
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in the majority of the opinions of the geeks in here. Raimi made A Simple Plan. Most geeks here masturbate on Michael Bay and his Shitformers movies. Enough said!
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That tells a lot of how wrong are they.
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not going to make an effort to ever see it again.
If it's on TV when nothing else is, I will probably turn it on.
Haven't seen Transformers 2, don't care if I ever do. -
It better not be...
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Never understood how #3 get's such a bad rep but #2 get's a pass. To me the whole problem is Raimi. He cast a piss poor choice for the lead role in the first place, (And ditto for the Goblin as well-that should have been Hugo Weaving or maybe even Michael Ironside..)But Tobey Macguire is probably the most least charismatic actor to ever feature in any superhero movie. Spiderman should at least be frickin likeable. I think he cast Tobey because he reminded him of himself when he was younger, (i.e a hopeless bumbling tongue tied nerd..) And Tobey's acting makes him come off as a slow witted retard! Spidey should be a fast talking, wise cracking geek, not a wimpish moron, who sounds like he's retarded! Worst scene in ANY Spiderman movie was in #2 wher he had Peter sans powers, sheepishly ignore an old man being beaten up, without even trying to do anything about it. In the comics he might have gotton his ass kicked but he would have tried intervening. Not to mention that whole exceedingly painful 'raindrops keep falling on my head' sequence which I would say was even worse than the danicing secenes in #3. At least in #3 his head was being influenced by the symbiote. What the hell's his excuse in #2? I canme out of #2 ashamed to have even read the comics. But #3 I saw twice and both times the audience gave it a fricken standing ovation at the end. (And not beacuse it was over..) People just looked embarrassed when they came out of #2. At leasst in #3 you had Peter being happy at the start and angry later. Two emotions that he didn't even seem capable of in #2..
And the sidelining of Venom wasn't because there were two many charcters in #3. It was because Raimi hated venom. There was an interview with the special effects guys in Empire where the lead designer in no uncertain terms expressed his disgust at how raimi undermined them at every turn, just because he hated the character. No, all the real problems in the sreies come from Raimi, and unless it's taken oput of his hands, and his lousy cast ditched, these will always be a lousy movie series, that only get's it grosses becauee people just love seeing their favourite character on screen in big budget movies. But these films are doing nothing but making mainstream audiences who haven't read the books, imagine the character as the most pathetic type of sappy moronic twit, that's ever came out of a comic book movie.. -
Oct 17, 2009 6:19:14 AM CDT
If it's tight and focused like the first one, I'll be happy.
by mr nicholas
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really don't care if Raimi uses this as an excuse publically, but I hope on a personal level, he knows that really wasn't the issue. If he doesn't know that the SM4 will suck and he is delusional.
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I actually thing the problem with the first movie was that it didn't had a focus. The movie seemed to be trying to hit too many targets at the same time, a typical problem with most big budget origin comic blockbusters first movie of a series. I found Spider-Man 2 to be much more focured. coincidently, or not, the second was the Spider-Man movie where Raimi had the most control over it, and the one with less studio interference.
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"Haven't seen Transformers 2, don't care if I ever do."My man!I tell you this, if Transformers 1 is on the Tv and nothing else, i'll turn the TV off. Watching paint dry is better then watching that shit. Also it helps save energy.
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which they got it right the second try, called Carnage.
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I've always said, Raimi should take a page from the James Bond movies and opened each film with a short 5 or 10 minute action sequence with Spidey chasing, battling and catching one of his famous foes who's wrecking havoc in the city.
It will have nothing to do with the main storyline, but will be there just as an opener before SM tackles the main villian later in the movie. That way fanboys would still get to see guys like Rhino, Shocker, Vulture, Scorpion, etc.,without all the origin threads woven into the main plot - and more villians means more toys to sell. -
Hahahaha, one of the most hilarious things a serious, blockbuster trilogy has ever done to add another layer to its mythology. From the fucking police department, five years later, "Oh! By the way, that guy we told you murdered your Uncle..yea, it totally wasn't that guy..it was this guy. Turns out he was standing right there, in the crowd with all the witnesses, and shot your uncle...just no one told us this until now. Or..well..they told us, but we forgot to tell you...or, um..its just...THIS GUY DID IT! ok?!?! It makes the movie better, so just accept it. The murder changed"
Whoever wrote that and thought it was a good, plausible idea...is a fucking retard. -
Personally I dont feel Sam Raimi is the right person to continue the franchise. Sure the the first one was great and the second was about as good, but the third shows how bad the series has gotten with him at the helm. Now, dont get me wrong, but I do love Sam Raimis work on his other films like Evil Dead. Its just the simple fact they need a different creative mind behind the next. As many have stated before, it wasnt merely the oversaturation of villains that caused SM3 to do poorly. That being said Im still hoping Raimi knows what he is doing and ultimately realizes the weaknesses of the last film.
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Biggest dissapointing night of my cinematic life, saw all the cast, got excited then the film sucked out loud.I don't think he should be allowed near a 4th, when did third chances become common place in Hollywood?
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I got to thinking that Venom doesnt have to be completely scrapped from the series because of SM3. He can merely be reborn in the body of Mac Gargan (current Venom/formerly Scorpion), but will probably never happen because of Sams distaste for Venom and the symbiotes in general. I would actually like to see Carnage if possible though. It just makes sense because not only would it be a natural continuation of the plot, but it would have a "Dark Knight" style dynamic where Spider-Man has to battle a chaotic villain who disregards all instances of humanity.
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I will never understand the hate. And yes, I've read all of your criticisms.
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Oct 17, 2009 10:15:53 AM CDT
"I think I've learned about the importance of getting to the poi
by chronicallydepressedlemming
Venom's entrance and Sandman's 'creation' both 'got to the point' that doesn't make them any less shit and random though.
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Oct 17, 2009 10:38:05 AM CDT
agree with ganymede3010 DO NOT SEE PARANORMAL ACTIVITY IN THEATE
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
worst experience ever...plus the movie was freakin lame
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I'm with ya man, as are most critics according to Rotten Tomatoes giving it a 62% "fresh" rating. And Smashing, he's not being given "a 3rd chance". All three Spiderman movies helmed by him were huge financial successes. He's an industry golden boy. Spiderman 1 - $821.71 million worldwide, it was 2002's third-highest-grossing film and is the 20th-highest-grossing film of all time. Spiderman 2 - grossed over $783 million worldwide, and won the Academy Award for Visual Effects. Spiderman 3 - worldwide total was $890,871,626. It is the third highest-grossing film worldwide in 2007 and 13th of all time. Yes, you're entitled to your opinion that you have about the movie, but to expect the industry to view any of the movies as "strikes" is, well, moronic.
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but it will always be remembered as complete shit. Revenue or no revenue, SM3 was still a wasted opportunity artistically. Why defend it? Do you hunger for crummy entertainment?
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Next you'll tell me a comic book writer is going to change a major comic book character forever.
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he prefers, and now we are watching 3. He likes Venom. I dont believe a word about Paranormal Activity.
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it still doesn't make it the bad movie that the geeks erroneously claim it is. The geeks exagerate on SM3's perceived awfulness, which doesn't have. And no, using SM3's box office result is not a good way to defend it. Box office results is never an indicator of a movie's quality, or lack of.
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I didn't use the box office revenue to defend the quality of the movie, I used that to prove the industry isn't going to view the movies as strikes. Reading comprehension is good. I don't have to defend any movie, that would be ridiculous. I can like whatever the fuck I like and others can like whatever the fuck they like. My point was that those who don't like the movie are in the minority according to Rotten Tomatoes. *sigh* you dorks.
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Oct 17, 2009 1:46:08 PM CDT
Rottentomatoes oh man their always right
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
And we should always agree with critics and not judge for ourselves. Praise rottentomatoes.
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Oct 17, 2009 1:51:35 PM CDT
If SM4 is as fun to watch as Transformers 2, i'm there!
by isleptwithkathybatesandallthatigotwasthi
Let's hope Raimi can sprinkle a little Bay magic on this beast!
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The point of Rotten Tomatoes was that those who like Spiderman 3 are in the majority according to that site. That's it. Not once have I said somebody can't have their own opinion of the movie and they have to like the movie now. Pull your head out of your bell.
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Can he explain why Bruce Campbell is popular? I don't get why these nerds follow him?
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Enough said.
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Understood. And i agree with you, unfortunatly, the industry will only measure the "worthiness" of a movie mostly because of it's box office and skip all other "secondary" considerations like artistry, intelligence and honest dedication.I don't envy the position of the poor analist which has to explain to the suits why both The Dark Knight and Tranformers 2 are such massive commercial sucesses and what both have in common to explain that.
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If you are a fan of him, sorry but I think he is one of the most retarded characters out there. Venom is bad enough, but Carnage? What a one-dimensional, pointless character.
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So Sandman is the real killer of Uncle Ben. That means the original thief is at make guilty of being an accomplice, an unintentional accomplice.
That means Spider-Man is indirectly responsible for that criminals death. Think about, if Spider-Man didn't come in to capture him, and wasn't so angry at him, he never would have fell through that window and died. He is indirectly responsible for killing a man who DID NOT commit murder.
"With great power comes great responsibility." That isn't being responsible, that is using your powers as you deem them. And the Spider-Man I know would turn himself over to the cops after realizing what he had done.
Series is now over, thank you Mr. Raimi. -
Leave Sam alone. Spidey 3 has it's moments. Yet Venom was badly handled. I liked the original concep of Vulture and Sandman.
How villains are there in The Dark Knight? That worked. Because they gave time to each one. And please can you stop ripping of the masks.
The audience isn't stupid.
How frustrating was it when Venom's mask kept slipping off. Ahhh!!! -
That is a big issue and one of those stupid hollywood rules where the badguy has to have done something directly to the hero.
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Youmknow why i excuse the obviously forced thing of making Sandman the murderer of Uncle Ben? Becasue they made a very dramtic Sandman, a man who it's abovious he has a good heart but couldn't help making bad decisions one after the other. The Sandman had pathos, and he was quite sympathetic, remarkably so for what is in essense a villain role. I really liked that, the sympathy thrown at Sandman. and the scene when he first ebcames Sandman, which is played with a sad, mournful music, i think it's one of the most brilalntly realised SFX scene in all of the Spider-Man movies. It's this rare thing, a SFX sequence with an heart. You will not find many of those in most blockbuster movies.Again, Spider-Man 3 is terribly underrated in here, and i suspect the future will be far kinder. The same way people pissed and shat on Ang Lee's Hulk movie and now it's getting a justly re-appreciation, i believe the same will happen for Spider-Man 3. Flawed? Yes, but no more so then Spider-Man 1.
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Damn near every actress known and unknown is hotter and more talented than that fag hag!
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I thought Spidey dropped him off a building?
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And yet, the movie turns that cliché on it's head by having the hero, in the end, forgive the honestly repented villain for his evil deed. For that alone, i excuse the movie for having gone on clicheville on that.
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Oct 17, 2009 2:52:15 PM CDT
I loved spider-man 3 precisely BECAUSE there were too many villa
by sirgarycoleman
It was just like the comicbooks - multiple villains and multiple storylines. It was beautiful.
All the character development had been taken care of in the first two films and what we had in spider-man 3 was just a great spider-man flick.
I think the only reason people didn't like Spider-man 3 is because Villain got short-changed in the screen time and I'll agree with that, but I went in knowing that there was no way he'd get much screen-time and it didn't bother me.
I'm always disappointed that super hero movies can only focus on 1 villain at a time and that they usually die. I'm not a crazy purist, but that's just not how it is done in the comics. -
What you want for the role instead of Dunst? Megan Fox? God's sake!!
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Oct 17, 2009 2:56:51 PM CDT
Asimov, I do believe that all the Spider-Man movies are flawed
by continentalop
But those flaws have come home to roost in SM3.
I know I am a broken record on this, but the series ended for me in SM1 when they had Spider-Man fly through high school into college and did a a butchered version of The Death of Gwen Stacy. That destroyed THE greatest Spider-Man story ever, the one that is in the center of his mythos and history. After that, where do you go?
SM3 realized that fault. You are now stuck floundering for directions to go in. Instead of a Spider-Man who grows and changes, like the comic book did in the 60s, 70s & early 80s, who have one that is desperately trying to maintain some sort of status quo, especially in the MJ relationship.
And Sandman was a sympathetic villain, yes. But hasn't EVERY Spider-Man villain been sympathetic up to this point?
BTW- you want to do a dramatic villain, do the Night that Gwen Stacy died the way it was done in the comics. You have a villain who kills someone (Green Goblin killing Stacy), Spider-Man bent on revenge, and then a realization that murder isn't the answer and that Norman isn't completely responsible for his action, preventing Spider-Man from getting blood on his hands. THAT would have been dramatic! -
One of the things i really like about all of the 3 Raimi Spider-Man movies is that the movie actually spends more time with and about the hero then it does with the villains. Raimi made this 3 monster budget spider-Man movies into character studies of this dorky guy who also happens to be a super-hero. I actually love that, that Peter Parker cames before Spider-Man in the movies, and that both came before the vilalins. Raimi is not making the same mistake Tim Burton did, when he made a movie supposedly about Batman but instead made one about the Joker, with Batman being the supporting character of it's own story, or Michael Bay in his two Transformers movies, where the titular characters are supporing characters in their own movie. For all that Raimi MIGHT have done wrong, he hasn't made that dumb mistake in that regard on his spider-Man movies.
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He went to prison, returned years later and died from a heart attack.
In the movie he backs up through a window when he is facing Spider-Man, making Spider-Man indirectly responsible for his death. Fucking great move, start his career off as a killer. -
Oct 17, 2009 2:59:54 PM CDT
I rather trust Sam Raimi with Spider-Man then the vast majority
by asimovlives
I rather trust Sam Raimi with Spider-Man then the vast majority of the geeks here. If the Spider-Man movie franchise had been given to 99% of the geeks and the AICN crew here (and this includes me), the movie would be so bad that it would match Transformers 1 (or 2 if unlucky) in terms of quality. And that would not be a good thing (understatment of the year).
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Oct 17, 2009 3:01:57 PM CDT
The Spider-Man franchise was and will always be in good hands
by asimovlives
with Sam Raimi. i rhater watch a Sam Raimi failure then the best efforts and sucess of so many other AICN popular and trendy filmmakers, aka, hacks, like Michael Bay, Roland Emmerich and Jar Jar Abrams.
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Oct 17, 2009 3:06:03 PM CDT
I don't care who directs or does Spider-Man as long as it is GOO
by continentalop
Why does this have to be a confirmation on Raimi? It is about making a Spider-Man that is good and faithful to the spirit of Stan Lee & Steve Ditko's character. Fuck, Martin Scorsese is a fucking genius and an auteur of the first order, and it is doesn't mean he didn't F-up on GANGS OF NEW YORK. Sure, 90% of the other filmmakers would have made it worse, but I don't care about that. I care about how good it COULD HAVE BEEN.
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I wouldn't say a killer. But the movie does point out that he feels shame for his actions, or in this case, inaction. He feels shame for this two cases of inaction, first when he didn't stoped the thief and future killer when he was running off the office of the fighter mannager. Then, when he "allowed" the thief to fall and die. Both times, Peter Parker though he was disopensing soem sort of justice by letting this guy go, one because he stole the money of a mannager who ripped him off, the second becasue the death of the thief could count as paybeck for uncle Ben's death. And both times, Peter Parker repented his inaction and misguided notions of "justice". The rest of the movie could be seen as Peter Parker compensating for that, his future actiosn both a realizatiojn of his uncle Ben's moral teachings and a need to affirm in himself that he truly has a rightous sens eof justice to do right, and to now allow pettines slike a desire for cold revenge to drive his actions, but to actually help true justice find it's way toward evildoers. This reaches it's ultimate culmination when Peter, in the end of the 3rd movie, forgives Sandman for killing his uncle.The Spider-Man moveis are truly terribly underrated at AICN. I guess if movies are not about "heros" seeking revenge and killing villains in cold blood, they do not make them movies cool, or some shit like that.
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News to me. I saw a bit of a flawed but immensily entertaining and interesting movie. But a fuck up? A fuck up? I must have a very liberal definition of fuck up then, since it doesn't match most of the people's definition of fuck up in here. Hell, i'm the one who thinks Scrap Trek is fucked up, and accordingly to AICN, i'm so in the minority in that understandment. My definition must be pretty exotic.
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...is the exact opposite of what you are saying.
"Why does every villain die at the end?" is a common complaint. "Why did the thief have to die?" is another complaint. If anything, the majority of people here complain about Spider-Man because he ISN"T supposed to be about killing villains or letting them die. He isn't dark and angst driven.
And when did he ever sit down and acknowledge that he shouldn't have let that thief die or that it was a bad thing? That is you just reading into the movie what you want, not what is actually presented. I see it as the filmmakers being lazy and just doing some simple moral "eye for an eye" which they do in movie.
Forgiving Sandman is a great idea, but they pulled it off horribly IMO. -
But you'd still never in a million years catch me pulling off a solo dance routine in a bar complete with jazz hands. 'Darkness' and brooding emo-ism isn't what prevents people from doing impromptu dance routines in day to day life...not having full-blown dementia or a system full of PCP is what prevents people from doing impromptu dance routines in day to day life. So yeah, he shouldn't have danced.The number one thing wrong with the dance scene, aside from it making more people squirm in their seats than 'Happiness', is that it was so far removed from plausible reality, it was such an unrealistic thing for any character, let alone that one, to do, that it completely took you out of the movie. Because you know that you're not watching part of the narrative anymore, you're watching Sam Raimi try to make you laugh with zany antics.
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A lot of the blame could easily be laid at the Wiensteins for insisting that Leo be cast and that a love angle be added with Cameron DIaz (they fucking brought in like 3 writers to add a more romantic angle). But Scorsese's name is the one attached and he has to own it, so no matter who forced what down his throat he has to take ownership.
Was GONY an alright movie? Yes. Was it a masterpiece, like it could have been? Hell no. So by my definition, it is a "fuck up." Just like how GODFATHER III was a "Fuck up" (but a bigger one than GONY). -
Yes it is sad that sometimes high-grossing movies are sucky, like The Phantom Menace or Transformers 2. I'm not with ya on J.J.'s Star Trek though. I really liked that movie. I'm not an Abrams sycophant however, I wasn't that fond of Cloverfield and Lost has become a confusing mess.
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9/10 from me.
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Ever since Damon and Carlton took over, they turned it into a time travel show.
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Oct 17, 2009 3:56:59 PM CDT
and i would pay to NOT see eric forman as venom again
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
what a porr decision by raimi. i guess he went with just a bad version of spiderman/peter when he made venom/eddie, seeing as topher grace actually looks like he could play peter parker. i always thought that wouldve been a good idea. hes got that sacarsm and humor spiderman does in the comics. i do like tobesy however but the woe is me shit got old in spider man 3.
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He was more interesting than Venom, because Venom was simply a plot device. He was only there to make the third act fight bigger which made it horribly weaker. The entire storyline felt tacked on, like we were missing half a movie or something.
At least NewGoblin was something that had been established in the first two films, so it wasn't as illogical that Harry would go so far. But the amnesia and the deus ex butler was gay. -
That would improve the film a substantial amount. And replacing Tobey maguire also wouldn't hurt. You could do better, but you could also do worse. Either way, Dunst is just unbearable.
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If they were to cast someone else, say someone you like, there would be plenty of people thinking it a crap choice and how anyone could like said actress. Basicly, we have no say in the matter, plot, chatacters, e.t.c. In other words...It is what it is.
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Venom just doesn't appeal to me.
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Yeah I hear ya good point. He still should receive some ancillary blame imho.
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...but it's not easy to create a great film. If it was, all of the wannabe filmmakers here would be doing it. It's much, much easier to be a critic.
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it can't be said enough.
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The writing and storytelling were epically complacent and shoddy. Introducing a "plot twist" that sabotages the origin and thereby the very essence of the character is one for the books. Ohhhh, so it was the Sandman that really killed uncle Ben. Sooo, then Pete's inaction didn't directly result in the death of his uncle. With great power DOESN'T come great responsibility. And this for the sake of playing out the utterly lame seen it a million times cliche' gimmick of tying the villian directly into the heroe's personal tragedy. And Venom had what to do with that? And the brilliant idea of a rooftop cry-off. Really dudes. So Venom's a "thin" character. As opposed to who. A thug who trips into superpowers. Because I don't recall the reluctant down on his luck just in on the score to save his sick daughter "angle" being any part of the Sandman's mythos. Raimi ADDED that to make the character MORE interesting. Film making 101 I believe calls that adaptation. And it can be done with one character as easy as another. Although I find it ironic that its Venom's chief characteristic that Raimi transposed onto all of his movies' villains up to that point, if he finds him so "thin." Through Eddie Brock's bonding with the symbiote he knew all of Pete's secrets. So he could take the fight to Pete's personal life, family,and friends. Didn't every movies' climax revolve around the bad guy kidnapping Mary Jane. Wasn't Aunt May accosted in every flick. Plain and simple, crappy storytelling ruined Spider-Man 3.
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"NUFF SAID"
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well said.
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...called 'SPIDER-MAN 3:THE DARKNESS WITHIN' done by ADIGITALMAN managed to salvage this movie for me somewhat. Seek it out Spidey fans.Raimi's version was a total fuck-up however...Fingers crossed for number 4 though!
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A villain that is pure evil, and not having a "cliche sweet" side like the other characters would be refreshing. Lets have a one dimensional nearly satanic, killing, unsympathetic, slaughtering machine. Why couldnt that be badrad?
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Put her in a see through white top in a rain storm.Her nipples should have won a special achievement award of some kind...they made the girl interesting for at least one scene in the first Spider Man.
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Oct 17, 2009 11:43:37 PM CDT
To this day I still don't understand fanboys blowing their load
by hollywoodhellraiser
over that scene! Its not like you couldn't see a better pair of tits in another movie but Dunst tits were...Anyways Dunst had fanboys wacking off to her for the second time in her career with Bring It On being the first!Its just amazing that people actually thought she was pretty in the first place!
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But is sounds like Raimi's on track here, that's why SM1 & 2 was good - he was the "indie" guy given all the toys to tell a good story on a giant scale...
It's crazy how they all lost their shit so quickly, SM3 did not feel like it was made by the same people who made those first two films. -
This franchise is pretty much bullet-proof. Reboot now before it's too late, and you'll have another ten years of Spider-hits.
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The paper owners son was a fucking astronaught, um shouldn't he have gone to mars or something. Found the venom black matter shit and brought it back, only it attacked and killed him and his group. Like tobe hoopers life force. Raimi shit the bed with the how. Part 2 gave the how a way. And venom should have been dark like that. travelling from host to host ala body snatchers or something. Venom wasnt dark. The i did it for my daughter shit was lame the new goblin digs looked homosexual. The dance bit the emo parker. It was bad. Very, very bad...
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Buried somewhere in Spider-Man 3 is a really great story about the seeming strength that entrenched anger gives you, as well as the freedom of genuine forgiveness, but it's buried because there's way too much going on, some totally superfluous to generating any kind of strong thematic thread. Which happened to be, in my opinion, why Spider-Man 2 worked so well; it really confidently knew exactly what story it was telling about Peter Parker and his struggle to find something approaching balance. Still, Spider-Man 3 has loads of really smart bits, and I'm one of perhaps only a few who thinks that the entire emo Parker sequence is actually one of the film's brilliant highlights (I actually appreciate it for being tonally subversive; maybe in a better film it would be undermining, but in this film it's absolutely precious). I think Raimi has a good grasp of what happened, and I've liked him as director of these movies, so I'm happy he'll be back.
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Raimi hopes that Spider-Man 4 won't be the muddled mess that Spider-Man 3 was.
Whether he actually acts on that, is another thing. -
He's 100% correct about working with limitations. Limitations force creativity. How many times have directors been given complete freedom, then blow it in a flurry of self-masturbation? (I'm looking at you Peter Jackson: King Kong.)
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...they should re-cast the main characters. New Spidey, new MJ.
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I'm sure who ever came up with Squirrel Girl and Stiltman regards them pretty highly it doesn't stop them from being sucky characters. And If the SM4 is about spiderman fighting a 75 year old man who can fly and turn people into Babies count me out.
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I loved the first two Spidermans, hated the third one, maybe the series really will make a comeback?
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Do you actually know anything about the Vulture in the comics? Because:
A) Roger Stern didn’t make him. The Vulture was made by Lee and Ditko; Stern was a much later writer who just happens to recognize why he is a great Spider-Man villain (His quote “He is the perfect Spider-Man villain”).
B) Why is the idea of an old villain bad? I mean, because he is OLD? That is the friggin’ point of the Vulture. It is age vs. youth, cunning vs. determination. I mean, John Houston was ancient in CHINATOWN, and you won’t find a better villain. Same with the Emperor in RETURN OF THE JEDI, Sauramon in THE LORD OF THE RING series or Magneto in the X-MEN movies.
And if you are worried about it not being a good fight, might I remind you it is a fight between people with powers. Spider-Man might be young, but it isn’t his youth that makes him tough, it is the fact he was bitten by a radioactive spider (or genetically altered one in the movie). He has POWERS. Well, so does the Vulture. His suit makes him much stronger than a man his age would be – in fact much stronger than almost any man. I don’t care if he is 75 – when you can lift press 800lbs (the world record if I remember right is around 600lbs) you can do serious damage to much younger people.
And I would also add that even if the Vulture isn’t a good match up physically with Spider-Man that doesn’t matter, because he has consistently been shown to be the most ruthless of his foes. He isn’t one for death traps or tormenting Spider-Man: it is either kill him as quick as possible or just get the hell out of there (and he isn’t afraid of using a gun).
C) You keep bringing up a bad Vulture plot, which I believe aired as a cartoon. Have you ever read some of his good stories? You know, like when he was temporarily replaced by a younger man, or when he came back to take his place as the Vulture again after his replacement fucked up? Both of those stories are by Lee and Romita. Plus Stern did two great Vulture stories with John Romita Jr. Maybe you should check those out before deciding he is a uselss villain.
D) As or the turning people into babies plot, sorry but that isn’t the Vulture’s fault, that is the fault of bad writers who don’t know how to use him. The Vulture is a lot like The Penguin, a great villain whom bad writers constantly fuck up because they can’t get past the physcial appearance or because he isn’t obviously “Dangerous looking”. Bad writers always have to use the obvious – they can’t figure out the idea of looks being deceiving.
Of course, I can see your point. I mean, just because he was in a bad story contaminates him. I mean, it isn’t like any other great villains were featured in a bad story and could never let it down. I mean that would be like using a villain in a Batman movie who once made his own utility belt and once was one of the villains on a campy TV series who invented a chemical that made people turn into dust until you added water …er, no wait, I mean that is like having Superman face off against a villain who once was written as hating him because Superboy caused him to lose his hair and once made a device that turned everyone on Earth into either Cheetahs or Bizarros…umm, no, I mean that is like saying the FF’s arch enemy is a despot who once learned how to change brains with Reed thanks to some aliens called Ovoids and he also once lost to Squirrel Girl…er, I mean, that is like saying the best Spider-Man movie featured a villain that once tried to marry Aunt May who also tried to …oh, forget it.
BTW – I wouldn’t say use him now. I think the ship has sailed with him being a potential villain. First off, the Vulture works best when the metaphor of the generation gap is the most obvious, so he probably would have worked better when Peter was first starting out instead of now being an experienced super hero. Secondly, the Vulture is a man who bears a grudge – before they could of have him be an ex-partner Norman screwed over and framed for embezzling, like Norman did to Stromm in the comics (and which I hear they did to the Vulture in one of the cartoons). He could have had a vendetta against either Harry or Norman before either one died – now I don’t know how the hell you bring him into this Spider-Man universe now. -
blame too many villains! yeah, blame everyone but the writer and the director. bullshit! all outside interference aside, a film is, in the end, the director's baby. if it works the glory is ultimately his, if it doesnt, then he's to blame and no one else. any director worth a damn would admit that much. spidey3 sucks because raimi couldnt make it work. batman begins has 3 villains. dark knight has 3 villains. too many villains apparently didnt turn those films retarded. anything is possible in a script if you can find a way to make it work. so please... stop blaming venom and the studio. it's getting annoying hearing excuses like that.
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I agree with you, mate: why all the hate for Spider-Man 3? It amused me.
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The problem was that the film was poorly made. The script was pedestrian and not very interesting.
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was pure Raimi style, everything about it was Raimi: the violence, the gross-out funny stuff. Pure Raimi, i wish he would do spiderman in that style, can you imagine?
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PROBLEM'S NOT THAT THERE WERE TOO MANY VILLAINS
AGREE WITH U SEXYBACK! 2009
11:40:29 AM
It was that they were poorly portrayed and badly acted, on top of the excessive crying and dancing. Yeah, get back to the basics. Sounds like a plan. *Eyeroll* -
Tobey maguire was Miscast from the get go have little hope for spidey 4! Kirsten dunst was always a fucking horrid MJ! Topher Grace was a better Parker/Spidey in S3 than Maguire was! S4 is going to be Underwhelminging LAME less Villains is Not the ANSWER U DUMBASS RAIMI! HOW BOUT A RECAST OF THE ENTIRE CAST WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JAMESON!!
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Superheroes don't need romancing. They need sex for relaxation... and then back to work!
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Dunst and Maguire are horribly miscast
Agree on this as well!!
didn't mind so much in the first film 'cos it was Spidey web slinging thru NY live and on the big screen
2nd and 3rd films they really grated on me though -
Fans WIN. Spidey WINS. And no more vengeance/envy motives for any character! Find something else to fuel them!! And If you INSIST that a superhero MUST have a weak spot - why can't it be in itself a harmless, small thing, like a FETISH for HAIRY pussy pictures, MILFs, or blogging!
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I liked that it moved along at a decent pace without spending 2/3rds of the movie on drawn out origins. It's not hard to follow, it's not a mess. Although I don't give a crap about Venom. I hope we one day see the Sinister 6 onscreen without people worrying about "too many villains". It worked in the comics. Raimi can do it.
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No it wasn't bad. It was a god movie. But for some reason, the geeks hated it like it was the plague. While at the same time loving and kissing the ass of a much, much worst piece of shit like Jar Jar Abrams's latest. Who understand the geeks, anyway?
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YOU think it is a good. That doesn't make it good. In fact, I can name a number of faults with Spider-Man 3, and list a number of respected critics who gave the film a bad review.
Maybe the "geeks" notice problems with the film you don't, or you chose to ignore. -
agreed. the BEST part of all 3 movies is when Doc Ock s arms kill all the doctors in the second movie. Pure Raimi, and Drag Me to Hell was fun as fuck.
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Seriously 1 was good 2 was a cryfest with some good scenes. 3 was so fucking stupid in so many aspects. Why the hell was Sandman even in that film, Sandman is a terrible villian his green shirt is lame as shit too. And the ending didn't make any goddamn sense. "Oh lets just let the bad guy who has killed all these people including Uncle Ben go just because he has a daughter who is going to die because of American health insurance." What you didn't know was the 3 was actually a criticism of the health industry saying that you had to become a super-villian to pay for health bills.
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and bring on The Lizard, with a soy-enhaced Dunst. Wink, wink!!!
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I know
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Hey JettL, are the villains in Spider-Man 4 the Lizard and Kraven? Thanks
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Hollywood screwed Spiderman from the first movie. Throw around "adaptation" all you want, but the bottom line is there was absolutely NO reason to mess with his Origin ... none. There's also no reason to have villans killed ... none. I offered my left nut for Burton's sucking pleasure when he killed The Joker and, in a show of Equal Opportunity, offered my right nut for Sam's when he killed Doc Oc. It's not "Dairy of a Mad Fanboi" material, it's the fact that mucking around with an established story open pathways to total clusterfuckery ... as we witnessed with "The Jazz Bar Scene" (which, by the way, was FAR better in it's original rendition; aka: "The Mask"). I won't get pissy about the casting (although Jerry O'Connell IS (was) Peter Parker), but Dunst is ass-ugly and so miscast I don't even associate her MJ with the Spiderverse. meh ... artistic interpretation is fine, but why do it to established characters? Don't just reboot ... pay Stan Lee to tell whomever EXACTLY what they're missing
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The problem is Maguire and his 'acting'.
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Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, arguably two of the best and most successful comic adaptations featured two villains.
Doubling up on villains isn't the cause of Raimi's problem. Shitty writing including an over-emphasis of slapstick comedy, tired cliche, a contempt for characters being put into the movie (whether you wanted to put them in or not) is more likely to be the problem.
If you're going to rip off another scene from a comic book movie, why would you make it the dance scene in Daredevil? -
The message was totally F---'d up. That's all. I think Batman Begins and the Dark Knight have proven that having three villains (Scarecrow, Two Face, the Joker) and still have a good movie is definitely possible.
The thing I hate, is not the directors-- both Ratner and Raimi are fantastic. Their visual style is about as good as you're gonna get outta Hollywood. The thing that I hate is that in Spider-man 3 Sandman was literally gone with the wind. He suffered no punishment whatsoever, in essence THE BAD GUY WON. "My daughter was dying(sniff sniff)... poor me." And Spider-man was all like "That's okay! All is forgiven! I acted Like a douche for half of this movie anyway! Also I totally forgive you for beating the living s--t out of me less than two minutes ago! And for being responsible the events that lead to the death of my best friend! And my uncle!"
NO! Just because your daughter is dying does not excuse you from becoming a murderer! There are tons of people whose daughter is dying and they're not out killing people. What is this saying? We should let killers go just because their (blank) is dying? Everybody knows someone that is dying! Does that mean we should all be murderers?
Again, my problem with X-Men 3 is not Ratner's directing, it was the message. Wolverine kills Jean Grey when he easily could have stuck one of those cure darts in her leg. And don't give me the old "Well Jean Grey was too powerful" BS. Magneto lifted an entire bridge with cars and people on it! If it can take out Magneto it can take out Jean Grey too. So what does this tell us? Murder is okay as long as it solves our problems? Am I saying that Raimi isn't at fault for Spider-man 3? No. He did write it too. But his and Ratner's DIRECTING was not the problem. It was a case of a bad message, not too many villains, not bad directing. This is just my opinion however, so agree or disagree as you see fit. -
All 3 were shite
The problem is Maguire& Dunst and their 'acting'. Fixed! -
The studio had been telling him for years to put Venom in one of the movies. He had refused stating that he did not like the Venom character. I'm sure the studio pushed for the multiple villains angle as well because that worked so well for Batman(?). So, with what was supposed to be his last Spiderman movie, Raimi decided to prove his point by putting all the studios shitty ideas into one movie. That is why none of it worked or felt like a Sam Raimi movie. Spiderman as emo kid - that is easy to read as another studio initiative in order to connect with younger audiences. I'm sure Raimi told them these were all horrible ideas but they kept persisting. So now, hopefully, Raimi has proven his point and will be left alone to make a really good Spiderman 4. He has been setting up Curt Connors for 3 movies now so it would be nice if that finally paid off. We'll see.
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the fact that he was insistant on casting tobey maguire and Dunst as Peter and MJ proves hes a FUCKING MORON SPIDEY 3 WAs HIS FAULT U DUMBASS PEOPLE LIKE MULTIPLE VILLAINS IN SUPERHERO MOVIES THAT AWSNt the problem and is your definition of tanking. making More money than Spider-man 1 & 2 U FAIL U FUCKING IDIOT!
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at least it was entertaining. The rest of the film was shite though. Fuck Spiderman.
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Oct 19, 2009 7:42:34 PM CDT
lol agreed odin!Recast Spidey!!! Maguire depresses the shit out
by superwelling
Recast Spidey!!! Maguire depresses the shit out of me!
by Onin Solstice Oct 16th, 2009
08:35:28 PM
No more suicidal Peter Parkers for christ sake!!! -
Oct 19, 2009 7:56:52 PM CDT
toby's fine as spidey imo, but if you must recast get ROCKY JR.
by meadowe
AKA MILO ventiwhatverfuck just saw heroes for the first time last week b/c of rob knepper, he looks tobeyish but a littler more manish. But like I said toby's fine just replace dunst with April Bowlby.
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...is continuity of a theme: the theme being that each of the three main villains in the three Spiderman films were father figures to Peter Parker. Norman Osborn was like an adaptive father, Otto Octavius was a college mentor, and finally, Flint Marko was an unwitting "father" in that he kills Peter's true "father", Uncle Ben, and in a way, creates the Spiderman who learns that with great power comes great responsibility. And in SM3, through Marko/Sandman, Peter learns that this great responsibility not only means bringing criminals to justice, but also learning to forgive them.
While I agree that Spiderman 3 was definitely more muddled than the first two films, and thus a bit more of a mess, there were also many elements (such as: seeing a more realistic Stan Lee-esque approach to the relationship between MJ and Peter, the redemption of Harry Osborn, seeing what Peter/Spiderman had been like if there was no great responsibility, again a very Stan Lee-esque theme), that raised it above the first two Spiderman movies. I suppose you can put me in the minority, as I am very appreciative of the job Raimi did with Spiderman 3, for the me, the best of the series so far. -
Oct 20, 2009 8:08:10 AM CDT
there was no need to have them all be father figures
by just pillow talk
nor do these villains need to always be connected to Pete in anyway. He learned the "great responsibility" from his Uncle, who WAS his father figure. Sandman most definitely did not need to be connected to Pete/Spidey in any form. That was complete bullshit that they made him Ben's killer. That last scene with Pete and Sandman is quite cringe-worthy. There was no 'power' behind it.
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Oct 20, 2009 8:15:12 AM CDT
Why it's better to kill the villain in a super-hero movie.
by chishu_ryu
Tim Burton got it right when he killed Joker in the first Batman movie. The filmmakers aren't making a monthly comic book series or a weekly TV show. They're making a one shot "movie". And even if there are sequels, it would hurt box office to recycle a villain. For that one movie with that one villain, the villain should be milked for all he/she is worth. That means giving the villain a dramatic death at the end of the movie, thus raising the overall dramatic effect of the movie as a whole. A big exception, of course, is the continuing storyline in the X-movies of Prof X's "MLK" approach vs Magneto's "Malcolm X" approach to mutant equality.
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