On the twentieth anniversary of his groundbreaking documentary ROGER & ME, Michael Moore is apparently bidding nonfiction filmmaking a fond (if highly contentious) farewell with his seventh feature, CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY. This may seem like a shocking departure for the Oscar-winning director, but he claims he never really meant to be a documentarian in the first place. As he told me over our brief twelve-minute phone conversation, "I'm a writer, first and foremost."

He also claims to be an entertainer first and an political activist second, which will probably come as news to those who view him only as an agitator. But if you look back at his best work - ROGER & ME, TV NATION and THE AWFUL TRUTH - I think you'll find some of the sharpest, funniest satire of our age. There used to be a [Groucho] Marxian anarchy to his comedy - like the way he used to expose corporate criminals with a crimefighting chicken named Crackers. He didn't really begin to get somber until BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE - which, given the weighty subject matter, forced people to deal with him as more than a merry prankster. And when the whole of his reportage didn't quite hold up under intense scrutiny, people began to discredit him as the left's answer to Rush Limbaugh.

As a fan of Moore's early work, I was frustrated with this move into less satiric territory. But when he began to step back and simply state his case, as he did with most of SICKO, I found myself getting in tune with this new phase. With CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY, I think he's as on-point and as viciously funny as he's been since the TV NATION days: though he moves around a bit (depicting the impact of unfettered greed on both a national and a local level), it's hard to argue with his thesis that the capitalistic system is irrevocably busted. Moore argues that the antidote to this perversion of capitalism is not necessarily socialism, but more democracy (i.e. fair and equal representation in the workplace). Those who aspire to be multi-billionaires may disagree, but, then again, most people who aspire to be multi-billionaires tend to be assholes.

I don't agree with all of Moore's conclusions in this film, but for the first time in a decade, I'm thrilled he's out there stirring up the shit. It helps that, this time out, the bad guys are easily identifiable - and even easier to loathe regardless of one's political orientation. Does Moore cut Obama quite a bit of slack in the film? Undoubtedly, and he explains why in the below interview. He also discusses his progression as a documentarian and what he plans to do next as a non-nonfiction filmmaker.

Mr. Beaks: Walking out of this film, I felt really motivated to get out there and do something to help improve the lives of others, but I'm an easy mark to this kind of thing. How much harder is it to reach younger people when many of their cultural icons - like Jay-Z or LeBron James - are so celebratory about the acquisition of extreme wealth? How do you make modesty and financial responsibility attractive to them?

Michael Moore: Hm. I think everybody wants to feel good about their participation in the society in which they live. A lot of the effort to consume or to buy things comes from a basic insecurity, and a fear, and perhaps a sense of loneliness, too. So I understand why people behave that way. But I also know they have this other side to them, and, if given a chance to live from that place, they would feel [good about themselves*].

Beaks: So how do you convince them that it's not just some obligation, that there's enjoyment to be found in helping others?

Moore: You only have to help build your first house for Habitat for Humanity or participate in a winter coat drive in your community. The joy that you feel for having contributed, for having helped your fellow man or woman... there are few things in life that will give you that kind of satisfaction. And the more people do it, the more they tell others to do it. That's why something like Habitat for Humanity grows from ten people doing it to tens of thousands of people doing it now.

Beaks: I know you had your premiere last night in Flint. Your hometown really hangs over this movie; it reminds us how far we've fallen since ROGER & ME, which is kind of unthinkable. And yet you still seem very optimistic about being able to effect change. How do you manage to stay so optimistic?

Moore: Because enough crazy good things happen to keep reminding me that the impossible is possible. I'm of an age where I never thought I'd see the Berlin Wall come down. It did. I'm of an age where I never thought I'd see Nelson Mandela let out of prison - and not only was he let out of prison, he became president of that country! (Laughs) And never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd see an African-American elected President of the United States. So if these things can happen, then anything is possible.

Beaks: The film is so great at raising issues, and getting us to consider alternatives to capitalism or ways of changing what its become. But I still can't help but be cynical about human nature. There are always going to be people who are without a conscience. People who are just about the acquisition of wealth, and who seek to circumvent whatever regulations or laws stand in their way. Will we ever be able to effectively police these people - especially when they've found their way into the Obama administration?

Moore: It's very debilitating when you see things like that.

Beaks: Absolutely. I voted for Obama, but I just don't understand why guys like Summers and Geithner get a crack at repairing the economy when they helped fuck it up.

Moore: (Laughs) Right. I think that Obama has to be given a little bit of time. He has our best interests at heart; he comes from the working class; he's lived his life helping other people. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to see exactly what his plan is.

Beaks: Did you ever consider coming down a little harder on him in this documentary for his role in the bailout? Was there a version of this film in which you were a little tougher with him?

Moore: No, it's too soon. I think I said what I had to say. I told people that Goldman Sachs is his number one private contributer. It's good for people to know that. And it's good that he knows that we know. (Laughs) You know what I mean?

Beaks: And it's reassuring to know that our president is aware of these things. I'm pretty sure that he resides in the reality-based community.

Moore: Correct.

Beaks: Here's a delightfully non-political question. We're now twenty years removed from ROGER & ME. How have you changed as a documentarian? When that film came out, there was some criticism that you were making fun of some of the Flint residents you depicted. I still love it, but it is very much a young man's movie. When you look back at those films, how do you think you've progressed as a filmmaker?

Moore: That's a good question. You know, I never much cared for documentaries growing up. When I was making ROGER & ME, I remember thinking to myself that I was making the anti-documentary. I wanted to create something new. So that's what I did. I took a lot of grief for it, and continue to, but that's okay. Anytime anybody who fancies themselves an artist tries to kick open a new door, the people who are in the old room have a hard time accepting that that door is open. But I think the public is thrilled to see a nonfiction film in a shopping mall cineplex. And that's what I've attempted to do ever since I started making movies. With each film I'm always thinking of new and different and better ways to reach people - not so much reach them with a political message, but reach them as a filmmaker. Like you said, I usually talk about politics in these interviews, but I rarely get to have a discussion about my work as a filmmaker. And that's what I'm doing. I'm not doing this to make a political statement. I mean, I am making a political statement, but if that's all I wanted to do I would've run for office. First and foremost, what I'm looking for is what every other filmmaker is looking for: when you walk out of the film with you date or your spouse, I hope you turn to each other and say, "Wow, that was a great way to spend two hours. That was something! I have not seen anything like that in a long time!" I want you to leave exhilarated.

Beaks: And you want to sit in the audience and hear laughter and maybe a little bit of applause. That's what most artists want.

Moore: That's true. Every night on this tour, I've sat in the audience and watched this film. Adam [an Overture Films rep] here thinks I'm crazy. "You worked a year-and-a-half on this thing. You want to watch it again?" But you want to see that you reached people. That's why you did it. I know directors who don't want to watch their films. I know actors who've never seen a single film they're in - more than you would know. But they got their satisfaction in the moment with their acting. They're not on stage. That's a whole different experience, where you're getting an instant reaction.

Anyway, they're pulling me away from you here. Do you have one more question?

Beaks: You've mentioned that this could be your last nonfiction film. You've made one fiction film in CANADIAN BACON. Would you like to make more satires, or are you looking to make something outside the realm of comedy?

Moore: I've written a screenplay, and I'm not going to talk about what kind of genre it is. I'm a writer first and foremost, so I just want to tell a good story whether it's fiction or nonfiction. I have some stories that I can tell quite well in the other mode.

Beaks: You think it'll surprise us?

Moore: I hope so. Again, isn't that why we go to the movies? I want people to say, "Gee, I didn't know he could do that." It's kind of like singing on The Jay Leno Show.

Beaks: (Laughs) You are an inspiration to amateur crooners everywhere.

Moore: (Laughing) "To all you people out there in the shower, this one's for you."

CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY is currently in theaters nationwide. Check it out, even if you think it might piss you off.

Faithfully submitted,

Mr. Beaks

*Cell phone reception got garbled, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.