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Michael Moore And Mr. Beaks Talk CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY!
On the twentieth anniversary of his groundbreaking documentary ROGER & ME, Michael Moore is apparently bidding nonfiction filmmaking a fond (if highly contentious) farewell with his seventh feature, CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY. This may seem like a shocking departure for the Oscar-winning director, but he claims he never really meant to be a documentarian in the first place. As he told me over our brief twelve-minute phone conversation, "I'm a writer, first and foremost."
He also claims to be an entertainer first and an political activist second, which will probably come as news to those who view him only as an agitator. But if you look back at his best work - ROGER & ME, TV NATION and THE AWFUL TRUTH - I think you'll find some of the sharpest, funniest satire of our age. There used to be a [Groucho] Marxian anarchy to his comedy - like the way he used to expose corporate criminals with a crimefighting chicken named Crackers. He didn't really begin to get somber until BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE - which, given the weighty subject matter, forced people to deal with him as more than a merry prankster. And when the whole of his reportage didn't quite hold up under intense scrutiny, people began to discredit him as the left's answer to Rush Limbaugh.
As a fan of Moore's early work, I was frustrated with this move into less satiric territory. But when he began to step back and simply state his case, as he did with most of SICKO, I found myself getting in tune with this new phase. With CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY, I think he's as on-point and as viciously funny as he's been since the TV NATION days: though he moves around a bit (depicting the impact of unfettered greed on both a national and a local level), it's hard to argue with his thesis that the capitalistic system is irrevocably busted. Moore argues that the antidote to this perversion of capitalism is not necessarily socialism, but more democracy (i.e. fair and equal representation in the workplace). Those who aspire to be multi-billionaires may disagree, but, then again, most people who aspire to be multi-billionaires tend to be assholes.
I don't agree with all of Moore's conclusions in this film, but for the first time in a decade, I'm thrilled he's out there stirring up the shit. It helps that, this time out, the bad guys are easily identifiable - and even easier to loathe regardless of one's political orientation. Does Moore cut Obama quite a bit of slack in the film? Undoubtedly, and he explains why in the below interview. He also discusses his progression as a documentarian and what he plans to do next as a non-nonfiction filmmaker.
Mr. Beaks: Walking out of this film, I felt really motivated to get out there and do something to help improve the lives of others, but I'm an easy mark to this kind of thing. How much harder is it to reach younger people when many of their cultural icons - like Jay-Z or LeBron James - are so celebratory about the acquisition of extreme wealth? How do you make modesty and financial responsibility attractive to them?
Michael Moore: Hm. I think everybody wants to feel good about their participation in the society in which they live. A lot of the effort to consume or to buy things comes from a basic insecurity, and a fear, and perhaps a sense of loneliness, too. So I understand why people behave that way. But I also know they have this other side to them, and, if given a chance to live from that place, they would feel [good about themselves*].
Beaks: So how do you convince them that it's not just some obligation, that there's enjoyment to be found in helping others?
Moore: You only have to help build your first house for Habitat for Humanity or participate in a winter coat drive in your community. The joy that you feel for having contributed, for having helped your fellow man or woman... there are few things in life that will give you that kind of satisfaction. And the more people do it, the more they tell others to do it. That's why something like Habitat for Humanity grows from ten people doing it to tens of thousands of people doing it now.
Beaks: I know you had your premiere last night in Flint. Your hometown really hangs over this movie; it reminds us how far we've fallen since ROGER & ME, which is kind of unthinkable. And yet you still seem very optimistic about being able to effect change. How do you manage to stay so optimistic?
Moore: Because enough crazy good things happen to keep reminding me that the impossible is possible. I'm of an age where I never thought I'd see the Berlin Wall come down. It did. I'm of an age where I never thought I'd see Nelson Mandela let out of prison - and not only was he let out of prison, he became president of that country! (Laughs) And never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd see an African-American elected President of the United States. So if these things can happen, then anything is possible.
Beaks: The film is so great at raising issues, and getting us to consider alternatives to capitalism or ways of changing what its become. But I still can't help but be cynical about human nature. There are always going to be people who are without a conscience. People who are just about the acquisition of wealth, and who seek to circumvent whatever regulations or laws stand in their way. Will we ever be able to effectively police these people - especially when they've found their way into the Obama administration?
Moore: It's very debilitating when you see things like that.
Beaks: Absolutely. I voted for Obama, but I just don't understand why guys like Summers and Geithner get a crack at repairing the economy when they helped fuck it up.
Moore: (Laughs) Right. I think that Obama has to be given a little bit of time. He has our best interests at heart; he comes from the working class; he's lived his life helping other people. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to see exactly what his plan is.
Beaks: Did you ever consider coming down a little harder on him in this documentary for his role in the bailout? Was there a version of this film in which you were a little tougher with him?
Moore: No, it's too soon. I think I said what I had to say. I told people that Goldman Sachs is his number one private contributer. It's good for people to know that. And it's good that he knows that we know. (Laughs) You know what I mean?
Beaks: And it's reassuring to know that our president is aware of these things. I'm pretty sure that he resides in the reality-based community.
Moore: Correct.
Beaks: Here's a delightfully non-political question. We're now twenty years removed from ROGER & ME. How have you changed as a documentarian? When that film came out, there was some criticism that you were making fun of some of the Flint residents you depicted. I still love it, but it is very much a young man's movie. When you look back at those films, how do you think you've progressed as a filmmaker?
Moore: That's a good question. You know, I never much cared for documentaries growing up. When I was making ROGER & ME, I remember thinking to myself that I was making the anti-documentary. I wanted to create something new. So that's what I did. I took a lot of grief for it, and continue to, but that's okay. Anytime anybody who fancies themselves an artist tries to kick open a new door, the people who are in the old room have a hard time accepting that that door is open. But I think the public is thrilled to see a nonfiction film in a shopping mall cineplex. And that's what I've attempted to do ever since I started making movies. With each film I'm always thinking of new and different and better ways to reach people - not so much reach them with a political message, but reach them as a filmmaker. Like you said, I usually talk about politics in these interviews, but I rarely get to have a discussion about my work as a filmmaker. And that's what I'm doing. I'm not doing this to make a political statement. I mean, I am making a political statement, but if that's all I wanted to do I would've run for office. First and foremost, what I'm looking for is what every other filmmaker is looking for: when you walk out of the film with you date or your spouse, I hope you turn to each other and say, "Wow, that was a great way to spend two hours. That was something! I have not seen anything like that in a long time!" I want you to leave exhilarated.
Beaks: And you want to sit in the audience and hear laughter and maybe a little bit of applause. That's what most artists want.
Moore: That's true. Every night on this tour, I've sat in the audience and watched this film. Adam [an Overture Films rep] here thinks I'm crazy. "You worked a year-and-a-half on this thing. You want to watch it again?" But you want to see that you reached people. That's why you did it. I know directors who don't want to watch their films. I know actors who've never seen a single film they're in - more than you would know. But they got their satisfaction in the moment with their acting. They're not on stage. That's a whole different experience, where you're getting an instant reaction.
Anyway, they're pulling me away from you here. Do you have one more question?
Beaks: You've mentioned that this could be your last nonfiction film. You've made one fiction film in CANADIAN BACON. Would you like to make more satires, or are you looking to make something outside the realm of comedy?
Moore: I've written a screenplay, and I'm not going to talk about what kind of genre it is. I'm a writer first and foremost, so I just want to tell a good story whether it's fiction or nonfiction. I have some stories that I can tell quite well in the other mode.
Beaks: You think it'll surprise us?
Moore: I hope so. Again, isn't that why we go to the movies? I want people to say, "Gee, I didn't know he could do that." It's kind of like singing on The Jay Leno Show.
Beaks: (Laughs) You are an inspiration to amateur crooners everywhere.
Moore: (Laughing) "To all you people out there in the shower, this one's for you."
CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY is currently in theaters nationwide. Check it out, even if you think it might piss you off.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
*Cell phone reception got garbled, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.
Anyway, they're pulling me away from you here. Do you have one more question?
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
*Cell phone reception got garbled, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said.
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Go Beaks
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...Beaks. One of the better conducted interviews I've seen on the site. It's nice to hear from Moore the filmmaker and not just Moore the agitator. Although I love him for both qualities.
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Ann Coulter, not Rush Limbaugh. Except Ann fact-checks a little better than Michael. As with Ann, Michael does not always make it clear when he is knowingly exaggerating for effect .. Mike does not do that, e.g. the whole Cuba episode in Sicko. Michael's purpose for that scene was similar to that of a food critic using the absurdist technique of positively comparing Elementary School cafeteria food to a high-tone restaurant he is trashing. Michael does it with a straight face so some folks think he is being serious.
Rush Limbaugh is far more mainstream than either of them, which you realize only upon extended listening. Rush created teh model that Jon Stewart took to the bank (compare Rush's tv show with Jon's - they are EXACTLY the same.) -
a high quality bootleg gets out there right away, like the last one did. Otherwise, I'll just wait to see it.
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Oct 02, 2009 6:15:23 PM CDT
Forgot to ask how great Castro's cock felt in his ass...
by onin solstice
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A lot bigger than bush's...
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Its easy to hate on the guys but the fact is we wouldn't even be talking about any kind of financial recovery at all if Obama hadn't worked with them to prop up the financial markets right now. I love how people were screaming about the end of the world in january when the stock market was crashing and now that depression part deux is off the table its okay to bask goldmad sachs. I'm as liberal and progressive as the next person. But for every bad thing that goldman sachs and others may have done to our country and the economy in the past they are a necessary evil. And Obama effectively used them to keep the market from going to Dow 1000.
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Nice interview, good questions. Unlike that schmuck on wheels Wolf Blitzer, who, given the opportunity to talk to Moore about serious issues that affect us all, instead chose to do an impression of a tabloid reporter.
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...to take out loans or second mortgages on homes they couldn't afford (something my parents did which they should NOT have done). We need to start looking in the mirror and taking more responsibility for our actions rather than constantly finding someone else to blame for our problems. I will see the film because I respect Moore's attempts to look out for the middle class and the common man in America. And he is a talented filmmaker. But people need to face certain realities about the world we live in. Before we can enact any real change we need to see what we can do better as citizens, voters and Americans. Yes greed has been killing this country for quite sometime. But part of it is because people get angry first without stopping to first reach common ground. We are ALL at fault. It isn't simply corporations or the wealthy. And it isn't the government either. Its US.
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Quote: "How much harder is it to reach younger people when many of their cultural icons - like Jay-Z or LeBron James - are so celebratory about the acquisition of extreme wealth? How do you make modesty and financial responsibility attractive to them?"
I think the answer to this question most "social conscious" people who care about "financial equality" is to FORGET ABOUT THE AMERICAN DREAM and just be fine with being mediocre.
God we have lost it! Moore talks about being a part Habitat for Humanity and yet the WHOLE idea is that he was not forced to go! No body made him go, he did it on his own accord (hence the good fellings). Taking away capitalism will kill donations and the 'opportunity' for those that have to give. If you MAKE people give you are no better than a communist, socialist dictator ruining any notion to the idea of Private property. This is where these "forward thinking" "open minded" progressive liberal freaks get it DEAD WRONG! There is no such thing as private property in their utopia as long as it doesn't affect themselves it's ok to promote ideas that hurt everyone else --how convenient. The fact of the matter is Capitalism did not fail- it is when the Government turned to SOCIALISM to bail the banks out that socialism failed. The financial institutions and the car companies should have gone bankrupt were not allowed to - and Moore goes out to make a movie about how Capitalism fails?! This moron insults my intelligence. Fine - if Moore does not agree with capitalism then I am not going to pay to see his movies - wouldn't want capitalism cramp his ego or prove that he is a hypocrite in every sense of the word.
Watch American Carol people! There is your Michael Moore for ya... -
Quote: "How much harder is it to reach younger people when many of their cultural icons - like Jay-Z or LeBron James - are so celebratory about the acquisition of extreme wealth? How do you make modesty and financial responsibility attractive to them?"
I think the answer to this question most "social conscious" people who care about "financial equality" is to FORGET ABOUT THE AMERICAN DREAM and just be fine with being mediocre.
God we have lost it! Moore talks about being a part Habitat for Humanity and yet the WHOLE idea is that he was not forced to go! No body made him go, he did it on his own accord (hence the good fellings). Taking away capitalism will kill donations and the 'opportunity' for those that have to give. If you MAKE people give you are no better than a communist, socialist dictator ruining any notion to the idea of Private property. This is where these "forward thinking" "open minded" progressive liberal freaks get it DEAD WRONG! There is no such thing as private property in their utopia as long as it doesn't affect themselves it's ok to promote ideas that hurt everyone else --how convenient. The fact of the matter is Capitalism did not fail- it is when the Government turned to SOCIALISM to bail the banks out that socialism failed. The financial institutions and the car companies should have gone bankrupt were not allowed to - and Moore goes out to make a movie about how Capitalism fails?! This moron insults my intelligence. Fine - if Moore does not agree with capitalism then I am not going to pay to see his movies - wouldn't want capitalism cramp his ego or prove that he is a hypocrite in every sense of the word.
Watch American Carol people! There is you Michael Moore for ya... -
...by the current market uptick. This is a result of the same companies profiled in Moore's film making the same deals on derivatives they were making BEFORE the crash. We bailed them out, gave them zero restrictions, and it's back to business as usual. There is no way the dow would be back up to 10000 without the inflated numbers from derivatives trading. In a few years we'll be right back where we were last october, the economy in shambles and the firms knocking on Geitner's door, beggar's caps in hand. Only they won't have to beg because Geitner is their lackey anyway.
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I don't agree with the Bailout but if the Banks had gone under and we ended up in another great depression that is a failure of capitalism. A few rich fucks on Wallstreet being able to sink the entire economy means the economy is far too fucking fragile to be considered a success. If it's too big to fail it's too big to succeed. Think about how much economic turmoil we've had since Reagan started the deregulation trend that both Bush's and Clinton followed. The deregulation of capitalism is what has made it more unstable. In the last (almost) 30 years under mostly republic rule (Clinton was a moderate conservative economically) the middle class has shrunk. The assault on the middle class (and the poor) by both the Republican and Democratic parties (we no longer have a true liberal party to balance things) is what got us in this mess. The voters are to blame, the middle class and poor in this country have a "house negro" mentality. They're fine with the massa making shit loads, ripping them off and not paying their fair share (paying a lower percentage of income tax) as long as they get a few crumbs thrown their way once in a while. The biggest sheep are those idiots who were so easily manipulated by Fox News and the Rich Corporate Conservatives (who funded the rallys) that they actually protested the rich getting their taxes raised by 3%. And they call it socialism. Unfucking real.
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capitalism didnt fail, it did what its meant to do whe left wing senates say "give out sub prime mortgages, if it goes wrong, we will write a cheque".
taintlick - agree, i dont know why i just added to it :(
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... fassblunder
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is GOOD
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A proven liar, distorter and hypocrite. The fact that the democratic party invited him to the presidential box a few years back at their convention shows how much of a joke they are, and how much of a tool Moore is.
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No one wants you to pay more taxes. Just pay what you are supposed to minus the "break". Reward for being successful? Fuck you.
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...compared to some of the filth the Right Wing has invited to speak at their conventions, Moore is a fucking ANGEL covered in baby powder.
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of making you pronounce the letter 'o', pal...
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Oct 02, 2009 11:29:19 PM CDT
Hey Moore, how's that Burger King points credit card workin for
by doctor_leonard_mccoy
I will take the bus to the airport to wave goodbye to Moore as he boards his private plane to his next interview shouting out "Drive a Prius" through the clouds of grenhouse gasses emitted by his limo, jet and ass.
Odd thing was when I showed up at the movie theater wanting to see his movie, the manager did not appreciate me wanting to watch the show free with complimentary popcorn. Capitalism sucks. -
In answer, probably the same way Reagan's dead cock feels in yours.
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http://www.moorewatch.com/
Good stuff found here as far as the film goes and some other bits. I can't believe people would agree with this guy at all knowing his hypocrisy and all. -
Oct 02, 2009 11:48:48 PM CDT
It's 10,000 sq feet but he lives in a cardboard box in the middl
by the_maltese_vulcan
Just like all normal folk.
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Cause I think that's really cool news.
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The Annointed one has landed. Hard.
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That new chapter is writing itself as we speak.
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Don't see this tripe. Capitalism at its finest.In other news, the federal government now controls the majority of the economy. And with lobbyists and rich wall street execs, they can control the economy much easier than if the fed didn't control the majority of the economy and the federal reserve didn't control global banking.
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It's the "Rich Fucks" that own businesses and employ people you ASS! If we are trying to implement "social financial equality" then we are all screwed. Punishing the "Rich Fucks" with outrageous taxes will only make them want to stop doing business (most of them can retire anytime they want or move business outside the country) Giving money away to people who do not make money and have no intention of paying it off -because they feel entitled now- is suicide. Those who work and produce get paid those who don't get jack shit - that's the way it should be. Caplitalism works great IF IT IS IMPLEMENTED! Our government is screwing with Capitalism by introducing Socialism - (bailouts, paid off foreclosures, ect) Capitalism is not the problem - the Utopian, Progressive, Liberal, Elitist, Forward Thinking, Open Minded, Social Awareness, Earth Worshipers are the FUCKING problem by imposing their ideals on all of humanity implementing socialism with a smiley face and elitist guilt! I just want freedom which includes the right to private property - this can only exist in a CAPITALIST system currently. Your ignorance really must be bliss.
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We need more deregulation not less. We also need to put an end to the federal reserve, end income tax and end all forms of corporate welfare (something I'd hope "progressives" would agree with). When a bank or any other corporate entity cheats or otherwise fucks up they should pay the price by the power of the free market.
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Don't support this crap. Or if you must see it pay for something else (so the theater isn't screwed over) and sneak into Michael Moore's diarrhocumentary. I would think a Abbie Hoffman esque "rabble rouser" would appreciate something like that. That's how I saw Farenfart 9/11--I paid for "The Notebook" hahahaha.
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Yeah I'm crazy. Expecting people to pay the full amount of what they owe is outrageous. Expecting a tax break is just as crazy as expecting someone else to pay your way. I love your statement, "Punishing the "Rich Fucks" with outrageous taxes...". All that says is that the way we are taxed in this country is fucked. It's not a punishment, it's America. The cost of doing business. I never said give money to deadbeats. Your making that shit up as you go along. Leave me out of your insanity.
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You fucking treasonous back stabbing turncoats. How can you call yourself an American and revel in the fact that another country defeated us in the Olympic bid? They try to say that Chicago is more violent then Chicago. Chicago had 451 murders, Rio had 5,700. And these Anti American Republicans have the nerve to cheer for that fucking hell hole in Brazil. Fuck you all.
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infowars.com. If you ban me you're a fascist.
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PPD is a bitch, isn't it?
but hey, most conspiracy nuts don't get "you're" correct, so kudos for that! -
that statement is basically like wearing a button that says, "I believe everything I hear without actually looking into it more deeply."it'd have to be a big button, but hey, it could cover up some of your pathetic desire to latch onto an underdog no matter how nutty and nonsensical he is.
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...for being dumber than a pile of bull turds?
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of young, brainwashed acolytes who bark all the live long day.
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..WASN'T IN THE SHADY MORTGAGE BUSINESS. AMAZING HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE FUCKING CLUELESS ABOUT THAT. GOLDMAN WAS, IN FACT, THE ONLY LARGE BANK TO NOT GET INVOLVED.
FFS. -
But they're impracticible in reality. Being a member of Congress and knowing how corrupt our politicians are, it's natural for him to want deregulation.
But he needs to spend some time in big business and see the one-percenters are worse, given free rein, for our country.
The key is ... we need MORE regulation of business, MORE regulation of politicians, and a united citizenry that makes them accountable to our common interests. That'll never happen of course, but I'm just throwing dreamy ideas out there.
If only we could take the tax breaks away from the one-percenters and give them to the 4 to upper 95-perecenters. I believe small and medium-size businesses could lead our country back to recovery, on to prosperity, if given the chance.
But the lower (working) and middle-classes (working and entrepreneurial) are totally fucked. The middle is picking up the tab for the lower and upper classes. The lower classes can't contribute because they can barely make ends meet. The uppers are just squeezing ever so much more out of the system.
What makes Bernie Madoff a criminal, and, say, Goldman Sachs or ADM an innocent? It's so fine a line of disctinction it barely exists.
I think Wal-Mart and Home Depot are just plain indicative of the problems of our society. Why did we give ourselves so willingly to the big dogs, and leave the little dogs - our neighbors, our community business owners - behind?
I fear for the future of our country and unlike Michael Moore, I don't have much faith in us to fix it. If only we could cross the dividers and say to each other, let's drop the partisanship and elect a government that does not exploit our differences but strives to unite us - so we can compromise and do what's good for America, bring ourselves back to prosperity for all. I would like that a lot. I think most 97-percenters would. It's a shame we are where we are. -
BSB, you want to give more regulatory power to the very corrupt federal government that allowed the corporatist takeover of our liberty and money. Aren't you just proposing giving the power to repair the problems to the ones that caused them? There's no difference between your plan, and the one implemented by all of the corporate bailouts.
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Tsk, tsk. Guess all the bluster, blather and meaningless hyperbole doesn't work every time. He was able to sway Americans to his side, but not Europeans apparently. Jeez, this guy is screwing up even faster than I thought he would. And we get 3 more years of this? Glad I pulled most of my 401K out of the stock market after he got elected. MY money is safe from the Obamaconomy - AND from that fatass Moore, since there's no way I'm paying to see his garbage. Doesn't even listen to his own spew - he's fatter than ever (despite Sicko) and rich as hell (despite Capitalism). Freaking hypocrite. Or perhaps "hippocrite" is a more apt description (or bad pun, whatever, he deserves it either way).
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I wish there was someone like you here in Greece :(
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I vote for republicans mostly and therefore run in those circles, and noone I know rejoiced when we lost the Olympics. Where are you getting your facts?
BSB, the problem with your "take away tax breaks from the one percenters" is that the one percenters pay something like 60-70% of taxes, whereas the bottom 40% pay something like 8%. So taking tax breaks from the people who pay the majority of taxes is begging for them to say "screw this, I'm moving!" and then who's going to pay those taxes? Us, that's who. Oh, unless you think the federal government will actually cut spending and relinquish their power and authority, in which case I gotta get some of what you're smoking cause that trip must be transcendental.
Parting shot: What's the matter with Wal Mart? They provide good products at low prices. They don't screw the little guy, don't avoid taxes, employ lots and lots of people and pay them competitive wages! What's your beef with them? -
While more regulation of business (especially big multi-nationals) is needed, simultaneously of course - and to your point - we need to regulate our representatives who regulate them. Ban any politician from entering the private sector, into the industry they benefitted while in office, for example. Watching Sicko - there was that Senator or Congressman, who fought tooth and nail against reform. Headed the opposition in fact, then jumped into a multi-million dollar exec position with an insurance company. What the fuck is that? It's an outrage is what it is.
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Apparently Gany is getting his news from the news. Because it's all over the news. Even Bill Bennett was happy we lost the Olympics. Great patriot, he.
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I don't know how to convince you that the tax breaks for the 1% does not benefit the rest of us. I really don't. Corporations will slash jobs to increase earnings, do you think they trickle tax savings to hire more people? I'm at a loss as to how to bring that point home for you. Sorry.
As for Wal-Mart ... they have improved. Why? The unbelievable amount of pressure from bad press and community organizing against their old practices. Sub-living wages, pushing employees toward government subsidies instead of paying decent wages and providing healthcare ... I mean, do you know Wal-Mart's history? If not, I'm sorry I'm not up to a debate about them. -
C'mon baby Eat the rich, bite down on that Son of a Bitch! THis should be the new national anthem. Time to take back what has been stolen and pissed away. We will never know hwat would have happened if all the Financial instituations failed cause that will never happen
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"Retiring Rep. Billy Tauzin, R-La., who stepped down earlier this year as chairman of the House committee that regulates the pharmaceutical industry, will become the new president and CEO of the drug industry's top lobbying group … Public Citizen, a non-profit consumer advocacy group, called Tauzin's hiring 'yet another example of how public service is leading to private riches.' Tauzin gets a pay package reportedly worth at least $2 million a year, making him one of the highest-paid lobbyists in Washington." "Tauzin switches sides from drug industry overseer to lobbyist," USA Today, December 15, 2004..
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2004-12-15-drugs-usat_x.htm -
Has always played by the rules. If you don't like the rules, then change them. Wal-Mart, as is any company, is not required to supply health insurance. Wal-Mart is required to pay at least minimum wage. What have they done that is so corrupt? If the employees don't like it, they can go work someplace else. Or better yet, they can improve their job skills and get a real job.
Do you really think "mom and pop" local businesses offer health insurance? Do you really think "mom and pop" hardware stores pay more than minimum wage?
The difference between "mom and pop" stores and Wal-Mart is that Wal-Mart has a better selection and cheaper prices. It has nothing to do with employee compensation packages because "mom and pop" offer basically the same package.
Liberals hate the successful. It's that simple. -
If an uneducated drone working in retail earns the same compensation package as someone with a profession, such as an electrician or a plumber, where is the motivation to put in the hard work to obtain these positions?
If instead of working shit jobs through college to pay for my education, working as an intern for free to get my foot in the door, and working my ass off to obtain what I have, I could have just worked the register at Wal-Mart for the same compensation and life style, why would I, or anyone for that matter, ever try to better themselves? -
Jebediah: Well, look what irrigation did for the fields!
Free market zealots use this very logic when they insist on exposing every aspect of human society to markets and private ownership.
Like irrigation manages the flow of water, capitalism is a system for directing and exploiting another raw force of nature: human greed. It has many uses, but there is no sane reason to apply it everywhere. You want to apply it where you can anticipate that market forces will actually have beneficial effects. why isn't that obvious? When did its use become a religion? Oh yeah... during the Red Scare.
Market forces will always compel for-profit insurance companies to let people die. -
I love the idea that anyone can have an idea and work hard to turn that idea into a source of income. Except when that idea is to steal from other people. When the top 1% own more than the bottom 95% who do all of the actual work... that's stealing. Not capitalism. It's theft. And the fucking argument by judas mother fuckers that if rich people aren't rich then they won't bless us with jobs is the dumbest fucking shit ever spoken by anyone living in a free country. If rich people don't have a job to offer then you start your own goddamn business idiot. The world has never and will never need rich people. Nobody benefits from them. They don't do anything but leach off the labor of everyone else. The world needs to be middle class. The only thing the rich 1% who own more than the bottom 95% contribute to is devaluing the spending power of our money. And all the bullshit about how we need investors to bring innovation. We could just as well have 1,000,000 people invest in innovation instead of 100. We are letting these bloodsuckers steal the life blood of our country and all because we... all because... all because we just let them. That's it. That's all it is. We let them do it.
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Isn't it a fundamental principle of business that if you're not growing you're dying? That if you don't keep pushing and innovating you will be left behind by those who do, and will soon be hopelessly out of date? What if Sony kept making Walkmans that played cassette tapes instead of CDs and mp3? So the idea that once the rich corporations get tax relief they'll downsize and layoff to increase their own profits is ridiculous if they're even remotely familiar with economic principles. Think of it this way: if a business wants to make more money (i.e. the nassty wicked ceos, precious, yes), won't they try to grow their business, to expand, to create more stores where more of their products are sold, increasing their revenue? And won't they need more people to build those stores and run them and function in them, and more people to design and build and mass produce products to sell in stores? And won't that trickle down to us peons in the lower and middle classes? So they make more profits and we have more jobs, and maybe we can start pursuing our ambitions and innovations on the side since we're not working 60 hours a week to make ends meet.
Are there bastards who try to screw the public? Of course! People are flawed, and the more power/money one accrues, the more the temptation exists to abuse that power/money to get more power/money. But the alternative is to suppress the free market so it becomes impossible for the average guy to start their own business without a venture capitalist backing them, and the guy being under the v.c.'s thumb for 20 years. So those with wealth will endure, and those without won't be able to improve their lot. You want to cement the stratification of society, suppress the free market. The rich will truly get richer (or stay rich) and the poor will stay poor (or get poorer). Unless you think Cuba is a paragon of economic bliss and prosperity. Or the former USSR. -
tell me what any of the top 1% owners of wealth do besides buy and sell. what do they invent? what do they make? what do they contribute to society? i'll tell you. nothing. nothing at all. they don't even run their own companies. they pay other people to do the work. they just own them and reap all the rewards. that's just slavery-lite. that's not good for anyone but these insanely rich assholes. there's no benefit for anyone else. it's fucking theft.
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they own half the wealth in our country because we let them. not because they did anything to earn it. they just stole it. especially fucks like Bill Gates who's trying to cleanse his soul by pretending to be mother terasa. that fucker robbed real software developers blind. he conquered. he didn't earn. just like all of those pieces of shit at the top. i think we just get rid of them. redistribute the wealth they stole from the other 99% back to the 99%. we don't fucking need these leaches. we fucking need the rewards for our fucking labor is what we goddamn need. and fuck all the judases who take their 40 pieces of silver to help the top 1% continue their piracy of America.
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Oct 03, 2009 9:03:09 PM CDT
WELL I THOUGHT I KNEW EVERYTHING BUT AS ALWAYS WITH MOORE
by bringingsexyback
You learn something new. Today, Prof. Moore tells us about Dead Peasant insurance policies. Ain't that nice. Better make sure your company does have such a policy out on your life.
Megabeth might think Wal-Mart is a corporate angel, but does he know that they have blanket insurance policies on their employees - you know, the ones Wal-Mart doesn't provide with health insurance. It's a great system, you see.
Wal-Mart hires - in Megabeth parlance - "uneducated drones" for minimum wage (and less). They don't provide them with health insurance. But in addition to getting their labor in exchange for a few bucks an hour, they take life insurance policies out on their lives.
So when they die, Wal-Mart makes out with, oh, $80,000 or more. Isn't that just swell, Megabeth? I mean, that's just free enterprise ain't it?
Not only do you get to profit off of Chinese-made products produced for pennies/hour of cheap labor, you get to profit off the deaths of your own employees.
Sure does make producing an MP3 player and selling it for a fair price seem amateur and not especially creative. God bless those one-percenters and their miraculous mind control over people like Megabeth. I'll bet he thinks Burke was the good guy in Aliens. LOL -
I am currently unemployed so a lot of it hit home. There are some wrenching scenes of loss and despair, and some uplifting moments of humanity and at least one little victory. I could care less what side of the aisle you are on, this movie represents my experiences and a need for regulation over those motherfucking greedy wall street pricks. They do belong in jail, not with a bonus.
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I'm tipping the entire crew. Cash money on the fucking spot.
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Air Force pilots get paid well, a nice leather bomber jacket and a re-up bonus of about $200K. And here it was I though airline pilots actually made bank.
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because they profit from it. Sexy, US politicians will never regulate the companies that finance their campaigns and cushy lifestyles. Term limits and severely slashed federal government taxing/spending power would help fix problems, but these guys won't ever support it. It's against human nature to expect them to ever vote against their own selfish interests. Thus, the only way to battle the corruption is to defund its machinations. However, you want to give them even more power and money. I'm sure our friends at AIG, et al. will thank you.
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I don't think alot of you have corporate America jobs. You don't know the kind of crap that goes on day in and day out. The stuff I see at my job makes some of the back office stuff in "Mad Men" look G rated playground stuff. I am a die hard capitalist, but Moore has made few really good points in what I've seen so far of this film ( I'll withhold judgment since I haven't actually seen it yet ) If you don't like Moore, fine, go and do some research though... there are some fine documentarys on PBS' frontline and many man segments on NPR about what really happened to Goldman sachs , Citi, and all these other firms. You have to pay attention and the topic is deep and dry, but once you get an understanding of derivative mortgage portfolios and modern lending practices, cash to loan raiots etc, it really is amazing that we bailed them out. They single handedly *caused* this problem, and we handed them a bunch of money without strings to let them "fix" it, and they took our money and bet against the house and raked in billions and billions.
I don't think we should get rid of capitalism, I just think we ought to make people play by the rules. -
That is one of the big points of the movie. Deregulation is what allowed greed to run rampant. Incidentally, Wall street II will probably view more like a documentary than fiction.
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The "Dead Peasants" insurance is a tax break for corporations. So, not only do they get a check if you die, they get a tax break even if you don't die.
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Among other things, many businesses wouldn't have been able to make payroll without TARP passing which would have really sent us in a downward spiral. It sucked that we were put in that position, but TARP was necessary.
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Here's the world's smallest violin playing for every Wal-Mart employee apparently too dull-witted to QUIT THEIR FUCKING JOB. And spare me the weepy sobsister "single mom - endemic racism - shitty childhood" bullshit because no one cares.
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I need to read up more on that. What was also surprising was that this is common business practice among large corporations. That other profile Moore did with the guy who died and his company collected on 2 policies totalling over $5 million?
What the fuck is that? This is insanity. It truly is. We're no longer discussing economics, supply and demand, allocation of resources, etc. This is just macabre theater of the absurd now.
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Oct 04, 2009 8:13:29 AM CDT
JACKRABBITSLIM - JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE
by bringingsexyback
hardly means "no one cares".
But your antagonism and apathy towards the poor is understood and duly noted. -
I don't think Moore was denying that TARP wasn't necessary to stabilize the banking industry collapse. I got that he was pointing out a few main things:
- The major banks clearly gambled - rather than invest or speculate - with people's money
- Henry Paulson timed the collapse (the losses have been there for a long time, just hidden and deferred) for maximium political pressure to force a TARP bailout with minimal to no debate for alternatives. He seemed to manage the collapse with one goal being that Goldman remains the strongest investment firm standing. Recall that they immediately hired some of Lehman's top people when that firm collapsed.
Again, Moore seemed to argue that that's not free enterprise. True democratic free markets would not allow one man with ties to Goldman to perform such a devastating manipulation of both the government and the industry. -
I never said I wanted to give politicians more money. I just said they need to be regulated and controlled just as we need them to regulate corporations. MurderMostFowl is right about everybody just playing by the rules.
You know, you're only able to cross the street because your government thought well enough to regulate traffic with lights and stop signs. That's a good system. Everybody yields at some point to another, everybody gets to where they need to go safely, and everyone benefits from traffic regulation. But when one asshole decides to run a light or drive DUI, he/she violates the rules. By doing that, they have put others in possible endangerment and as we all know this results in great harm to one or more others.
Same thing with commerce. Nobody lives in a vacuum. Conducting business has impacts on others small and great. Why not regulate so everyone benefits?
But we've allowed our politicians to get away from us, on every level of government. So many of them are beholden to businesses who have the resources to buy them, game the system and change the rules that suit only them.
What about the people, or the businesses who don't have the resources to bribe them? Or simply don't have a failed ethical psychology to do such a thing? Again, that's not free market Capitalism. That's cronyism and it violates free market mechanisms.
Take power away from the government you say? Hell, that'll make these corrupt businesses ever more powerful. We need to first make politicians accountable to the common insterest, and then give them the tools to regulate the system.
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Left-wing liberal douche hates our capitalism... But he has become a multi-millionaire celebrity because of it. Left-wing liberal douche hates our medical system... But let's see him fly over to England or Cuba in the event of a life-threatening illness... Some good news however: Deadline.com forcasts this new propaganda film as his worst financially performing film since 2002.
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Can I get an Amen back?
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What does Moore know about about Obama to make him believe that he "has our best interests at heart." Is he basing his assumption off of Obama's cheesy campaign of hope and change? His autobiography? No politician would write favorably of himself if it wasn't true, right lol? How about judging his actions and use some common sense. Lets say your house gets robbed, are you gonna hire the same guys who robbed you to guard your new stuff? NO. Maybe Moore can afford to, "give him the benefit of the doubt to see exactly what his plan is" cause he's worth a few millions of dollars. Tell that to the millions of unemployed Americans or those whose lost their 401Ks. If Moore is afraid to put pressure on the President directly, then he might as well be on the payroll too.
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Beaks and Moore can go to hell....
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That much is clear, what I can't understand is why Moore doesn't just let everyone see his movie for free? For such an important message I would think that he wouldn't cheapen it by charging. Yuck, I feel dirty even thinking about profit. I bet he does as well.
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My man, I never said that we should further empower the corporations. I'm just saying that we can never, ever rely on the corruption of government to protect us from the corruption of big business. Why? Because they're one and the same...always have been, always will be. I've never understood the loyalty your type has toward the plantation/ government...when it's more culpable for our current sorry state than the corps, because actually we rely on it to serve the peoples' best interests, and they consistently betray our trust for their collective profit. They've done it since WW1, and will never change unless they're defunded.
Also, your streetlight analogy isn't logical. Streetlights are controlled by local/municipal governments where democracy actually makes a difference, because your votes matter. When you continue to trust and empower the federal government to regulate and protect, you basically give your democratic voice away, remove power from the people, and give it to the representative republic that has no interest in your individual well-being. The kings and slave masters love guys like you, because you fear standing alone in life without their totalitarianism, and pathetically hope that they will have a change of heart and care for you. -
It clearly wasn't liberals that started an artificial war in 2003, destroyed the housing market, drove oil prices up artificially and destroyed the job market.
There is definitely an alternative to what has occurred in the past 8 years that only a blind,deaf, mute, retarded asshole thinks the Bush administration did a great job for anyone other than select few rich corporations and allowed wall street to gamble as they wish. Over 1 trillion in American wealth vanished from retirement pensions, bank accounts and other funds. Liberals didn't do that, conservatives did. -
I never understand the mentality of obscenely rich people still wanting to be richer... Maybe I'm just too poor to understand, but if I was making a million dollars a year and had the opportunity to make 10 million but had to do a lot of bad and dishonest things to other people to do so... why? Even if I was inclined to do bad thigns to people, it sounds like too much work and risk of people hating me just to make more money that I've no idea what I'm going to do with anyway... Isn't there some point that these rich people stop and say to themselves, "You know what? I'm good. I've got more than enough than I know what to do with." Perhaps with all that money they've done everything and run out of ideas to keep themselves occupied, so making even more money becomes like some kind of game/hobby that they're all playing together like some kind of Xbox LIVE party, except with people's lives in 3D real time graphics and with net worth as their achievement score... It's the only thing that makes sense...
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I understand what you're saying, but I'm not under any illusions - ALL levels of government are corrupt, despite some shining beacons of goodness like, for example, Rep. Marcy Kaptur.
But I have far greater trust in the potential of having a strong, ethical Federal government before I would trust any local government to do the right thing. It's of utmost importance to set the right tone at the top.
When GM was sending in hired thugs and corrupt cops to bust strikers' heads, it was FDR who sent in the National Guard to protect those people. And if it wasn't for the Federal government, Blacks might still be lynched today in Mississippi.
Here's a taste of corruption at a very local level:
OC Assemblyman In Bed With Lobbyist . . . No, Literally In Bed
By R. Scott Moxley in Breaking News, Crime & Sex, Moxley, PoliticsTue., Sep. 8 2009 @ 9:23PM
Duvall ran from reporters today in the capitol
SACRAMENTO--Freshmen legislators arriving in Sacramento receive advice from veteran politicians about the intricacies of working in California's capital. One of those tips is to remember that microphones broadcasting legislative debates can also capture embarrassing, career-ending personal admissions if a politician isn't careful. Michael D. Duvall, Orange County's 72nd Assembly District representative, must have forgotten the warning.
In July--two days after Assembly Speaker Karen Bass and Republican leader Sam Blakeslee put Duvall on the Rules Committee that oversees member ethics--the second-term, conservative, Republican assemblyman sat in a public hearing and vividly described lewd details about his trysts with a female lobbyist whose clients had business before another committee on which Duvall sits.
Duvall, speaking to a relatively mum Republican colleague seated to his left, apparently had no idea his dais microphone became live beginning about a minute before the start of a cable-televised committee hearing. He was captured in the middle of recounting portions of an affair.
"She wears little eye-patch underwear," said Duvall, who is married with two children. "So, the other day she came here with her underwear, Thursday. And so, we had made love Wednesday--a lot! And so she'll, she's all, 'I am going up and down the stairs, and you're dripping out of me!' So messy!"
That line may quickly become part of colorful Sacramento political lore. In the meantime, it leads me to a question: Can someone please buy the assemblyman a box of condoms?
Duvall--who was twice a president of the Yorba Linda Chamber of Commerce, served two terms as mayor of Yorba Linda before entering the assembly in 2006, and is the owner of an insurance agency--continues his tale: "So, I am getting into spanking her. Yeah, I like it. I like spanking her. She goes, 'I know you like spanking me.' I said, 'Yeah! Because you're such a bad girl!'"
He then laughed.
The assemblyman representing Anaheim, Fullerton, Placentia, Orange, Brea, La Habra and Yorba Linda then offered clues to the identity of his sex partner.
"And so her birthday was Monday," he said at the Wednesday, July 8 committee hearing. "I was 54 on June 14, so for a month, she was 19 years younger than me. I said, 'Now, you're getting old. I am going to have to trade you in.' And she goes, '[I'm] 36.' She is 18 years younger than me. And so I keep teasing her, and she goes, 'I know you French men. You divide your age by two and add seven, and if you're older than that, you dump us.'"
According to voter-registration records reviewed by the Weekly, veteran Sacramento-based lobbyist Heidi DeJong Barsuglia turned 36 years old on Monday, July 6.
Legislative sources say they have witnessed Duvall, who is vice chairman of the Assembly's powerful Committee on Utilities & Commerce, socializing after-hours with Barsuglia. Sources--who asked for anonymity because of Duvall's power in the capital--say Susan Duvall usually stays in Orange County during the week, when her husband flies to Sacramento. They also say they have seen Duvall with Barsuglia in restaurants, "arm-in-arm" at political fund-raising events and even shopping together for groceries just blocks from the capitol building.
"Their relationship is the worst-kept secret in Sacramento," a capitol staffer recently told me. "He's old and fat. She's hot, blonde and about 20 years younger. He could have never gotten a woman like that before he got this job.'"
In April--two months after Duvall became vice chairman of the Utilities & Commerce committee--privately owned California utility giant Sempra Energy hired Barsuglia as one of its top lobbyists, according to Secretary of State records. Barsuglia, who has a law degree and once worked as a speechwriter for Governor Pete Wilson, had previously worked at the California Retailers Association (CRA). During 25 months of work at CRA, she reported that she incurred no reportable lobbying expenses. She joined Sempra after the departure of another lobbyist: David Hayes, who was named deputy director of the Interior Department by President Barack Obama. The San Diego-based utility conglomerate isn't shy about lobbying lawmakers for favorable treatment. This session, they gave Duvall $1,500 in campaign contributions. In May, the assemblyman officially adopted the company's negative view on Assembly Bill 64, which proposes increasing the percentage of electricity the utilities must procure from environmentally sensitive sources.
Repeatedly asked to explain his recorded sexual boasting, a red-faced Duvall fled me and another reporter, Dave Lopez of KCBS in Los Angeles, three times this afternoon in capitol hallways. He also ignored three handwritten interview requests that were delivered to him on the floor of the assembly. Said one assembly employee who witnessed the scene, "It definitely looks like he is afraid of you guys."
Barsuglia did not responded to a request for an interview made at Sempra's offices located across the street from the capitol building.
Sempra's 2008-2009 "Code of Business Conduct" states, "We've built [the company's] rich tradition because of the emphasis we place on ethical business conduct and compliance with the laws and regulations that govern our business. We don't compromise on either for the sake of success"
But Duvall wasn't content to just share one adulterous tale at the July 8 committee hearing. He referenced a second, simultaneous affair with another woman. He seemed amused that he was cheating on both his wife and a mistress.
"Oh, yeah, Sher, Shar, Shar," Duvall said. "Oh, she is hot! I talked to her yesterday. She goes, 'So are we finished?' I go, 'No, we're not finished.' I go, 'You know about the other one [Barsuglia], but she doesn't know about you!'"
The assemblyman punctuated his observation with laughter.
During his political career, Duvall has unabashedly espoused conservative principles and is known as a partisan Republican with a knack for theatrics: He has noisily driven his Harley-Davidson motorcycle to functions. In 2008, Duvall blasted efforts to condone gay marriage. Legislatively, he has proposed bills to aid the insurance industry and government contractors feeding off the state's massive transportation kitty. He has offered a law to alter the First Amendment rights of Americans by banning anti-war activists from putting the names of fallen soldiers on T-shirts with messages such as "Bush lied" on the front and "They died" on the back; he observed that the dead soldiers fought to protect freedom, and "opportunists" should not be allowed to "exploit" the sacrifices with political messages opposing war.
Such thinking impressed certain constituencies. Earlier this year, the man who never graduated from high school received "100 percent" approval scores by the California Republican Assembly, the state's leading conservative outfit, and the Capitol Resource Institute (CRI), a fierce guardian of traditional family values.
"Assemblyman Duvall has been a consistent trooper for the conservative causes," CRI president Karen England announced in March. "For the last two years, he has voted time and time again to protect and preserve family values in California. We are grateful for his support of California families.'"
Acknowledging the CRI award, Duvall observed in a press release that as long as he is in office, he would work to protect "California families" from "constant assault in Sacramento."
rscottmoxley@ocweekly.com
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Poor Moore. Looks like the TRUTH won't be getting out there! Asshole.
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It's about more than enough money ... it's about status, power and generational wealth. And it's time their balls got cut off.
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most people just enjoy their dignity is all. He retorted with the most lame statement I've ever heard when asked about the redundancy of this movie. The man has 0 class.
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great film everyone should see this
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I came out MADDER!!!!!!!!
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Sexyback, you should trust neither government or big business...you should strive for individual empowerment. Otherwise, we're just slaves to those that use us.
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Laughing watching you get all weepy and frustrated in your righteous rage for those too stupid to study in school, too ignorant to abort their misbegotten whelps and too lazy to find another job while the rest of the world yawns. The truly hilarious thing is - dem good folkses workin at duh Wal-Mart would dun hatecher liberal commie-lovin ass. Hell - Wal-Mart employee is your caricature of Redneck Republican and still you snivel for them.
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www.thezeitgeistmovement.com
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www.thevenusproject.com
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is that the government is supposed to work for the people. Corporations act in their own self-interest to make a profit. We should expect the government to work for us as we elect them and pay their salary. Why should they only be looking out for corporate interests?
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governments only look out for corporate interests because governments are businesses. sure, it SHOULD not be that way, but sadly it is.
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Oct 05, 2009 1:41:03 PM CDT
JACKRABBITSLIM - MY PARENTS TOUGHT ME TO EMPATHIZE WITH PEOPLE
by bringingsexyback
regardless of their political persuasion or differences in beliefs. You were taught differently? That's very sad.
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He goes to the banks to ask for the American people's money back, har har. We get your point moore. It's just a tired formula and I'm sick of his monotone voice narrating.
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for a glimpse of what kicked off the American Revolution, and the discussion between Adamns and Tom Jefferson about individualism vs. federalism. It's quite fascinating. Still gotta side with TJ. Difusing power among state and local governments would hinder much damage done by a dominant central government. And despite liberal fantasies of huge multinational corporations controlling countries, business is always subject to the whim of the consumer, while government can always make new laws to allow themselves to do whatever they want. Case in point, McCain-Feingold was supposed to end gov corruption and mudslinging campaigns by limiting what and when people could contribute to politicians before elections. Did it work? No effing way! All it did was make it harder for challengers to dethrone incumbants. IT LIMITS SPEECH! IN DIRECT CONTRAVENTION TO THE FIRST AMENDMENT! WORSE IT LIMITS POLITICAL SPEECH, THE MOST VITAL KIND OF SPEECH IN A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC! A clear case of government creating laws to benefit themselves. Government is always the worst enemy of the people.
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Compared to his Bush league movie, CAP forfeited capitol! The same Americans who supported Moore's Bush league quickie have defected from the fat slob (SICKO faded-out in less than one week). The public is no longer buying the "rebel" routine; they've been enlightened to Moore's facade (earning $$$ rebuking the hand that overfeeds him). Game over. Now somebody will likely interject, "Gee, $5 mil is great for a/marketing! The baton has been low budget bllowjob." Hey, it doesn't even pay for advertising! Now the baton will (hopefully) be passed to a real filmmaker--not a greedy, greasy geek (who declines all impromptu interviews--nothing worse than a hypocrite, heh?)but someone genuinely impassioned with film, politics and courage (i.e. impartial); how about a documentary on Jesse Jackson? I recount marching with Dr. King in summer (along with thousands of admirers); everyone was baking or fainting, the (Baltimore/DC) heat was brutal! But Dr. King was like the Terminator, just driven to piss on this heat wave. Miles and miles in hell without a press agent. And Jesse fancies himself King's successor? A guy who insists on big $$$ and a limousine to council children about drugs, et al? Heard that Jesse was fuming when, last week, Clinton crabbed his "peacemaker" routine for a photo-op. But, hey, they deserve each other. IQ dropping, outta here--have a cool weekend.
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Oct 05, 2009 10:55:14 PM CDT
I'll take 'personal responsibility' over 'empathy' any day
by jackrabbitslim
And i strongly doubt your "regardless of differences in beliefs" claim based on the frequent stridency of your comments.
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like he notoriously did in "The Big One". And tell me how much empathy Mr Moore had for those pathetic Wal-Mart or Kmart or whatever minimum-wage-making losers he put on camera in Columbine? I don't blame him - its all about the gotcha! entertainment value that puts those asses in seats.
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Whoa, sorry about the editing. Damn laptops (it's Toshiba; clean-up your act, guys). One more time:
Compared to his Bush league movie, CAP forfeited capitol! The same Americans who supported Moore's Bush league quickie have defected from the fat slob (SICKO faded-out in less than one week). The public is no longer buying the "rebel" routine; they've been enlightened to Moore's facade (earning $$$ rebuking the hand that overfeeds him). Game over. Now somebody will likely interject, "Gee, $5 mil is great for a low budget blowjob." Hey, it doesn't even pay for advertising! Now the baton will (hopefully) be passed to a real filmmaker--not a greedy, greasy geek (who declines all impromptu interviews--nothing worse than a hypocrite, heh?)but someone genuinely impassioned with film, politics and courage (i.e. impartial); how about a documentary on Jesse Jackson? I recount marching with Dr. King during a dog day summer (along with thousands of other admirers); everyone was baking or fainting, the (Baltimore/DC) heat was brutal! But Dr. King was like the Terminator, just driven to piss on this heat wave. Miles and miles in hell without a press agent. And Jesse fancies himself King's successor? A guy who insists on big $$$ and a limousine to council children about drugs, et al? Heard that Jesse was fuming when, last week, Clinton crabbed his "peacemaker" routine for a photo-op. But, hey, they deserve each other. IQ dropping, outta here--have a cool weekend. And thanks for your patience. -
Oct 06, 2009 10:38:29 PM CDT
JACKRABBITSLIM - PRECISELY BECAUSE SOMEONE WORKS AT WAL-MART
by bringingsexyback
means that person embodies 'personal responsibility'. Because for $6 an hour (and that's not even full-time, since Wal-Mart did its best to minimize full-time staffing to avoid providing benefits), and - as we now know - letting the corporation use your body as a poker chip, I would think someone lacking personal responsibility would rather jump on the unemployment line than work in those conditions.
From my perspective, it takes a lot of character for a man or woman, and in many cases at Wal-Mart, the elderly, to take a menial job and work hard to earn a living (not to mention enduring the stigma attached to their jobs by people like yourself) rather than give up on life or live off welfare.
But don't worry. No one's stopping you from feeling your disdain and disgust for the poor. I just hope it makes you feel better about yourself, otherwise it's such a waste to even feel anything at all. -
I agree that JRSlim is a bit callous in his feelings, but you offer no solution except the tired wealth-redistribution, class-envy plan that further empowers corporations and the federal government. Do you believe that enslavement to both is acceptable as long as we in the underclass get hand-outs and entitlements?
For example, I wonder if you support the Romney/Obama health care reform plans. If you look at them objectively, their main point is to force individuals to buy health insurance. Who benefits from such plans? Individuals? The poor? Nope, the health insurance, hospital, and pharma industries benefit the most. Is it OK for them to force a new tax upon individuals just for their corporate enrichment? If you believe so, then you're exactly a corporatist like those you decry, and should vote for the next Bush that runs for President. -
Yeah, even if JackRabbit had a heart he'd never donate it. Anyways.
I have to ask - is the concept of wealth distribution really a tired solution? Because for the last 20 years or so that is precisely what has been going on in this country. The economy has been gamed so concentrate the wealth into 1% of our population. And we are still moving towards more, and more, such distribution.
There is no class envy in wanting to reverse that. It is completely pragmatic, and economically beneficial for the nation, in fact, to reverse that.
With the 1% hoarding the money, it is not circulating in the economy as it should. The money is better off in the hands of the 95% who will actually spend it. Either in real investments in active business activity or consumer spending. Ask any economist - the fact that wealth is concentrated and hoarded in so few hands is detrimental to our economy.
And I don't believe in hand-outs. I think a large social work and education program would re-energize our work force. After WWII, the government invested in returning veterans through the GI Bill. That helped to transform our nation into the world's greatest information economy.
I don't fully endorse Obama's reform plan as it stands now because I believe we NEED the public option. I agree with you - I don't want us to subsidize more members added to the private insurers' rolls. Shep Smith last night argued for public option in the best way possible. I agree with him.
Competition between the government and private insurers is the best way to make sure we, the people, win.
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Ugh. SexyBack, don't you see how increased federal intervention within every economic sector has never solved any problem? For examples, FDR extended the Great Depression with the New Deal, Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid et al are all broke, and the failed yet ongoing unsuccessful wars on terror, poverty, and drugs. Obviously, these programs solved nothing. Unless, the loss of individual liberty and states' rights were the goals. The only function of government should have is to lower barriers to entry for those willing to earn it, not steal from those that succeed. Instead of redistribution, we should reverse the court decision giving corporations individual rights (like people), repeal the individual income tax, and rescind NAFTA to create real jobs, and put corps back in their proper place...beneath individuals. We don't need more goofy, unproductive government sector jobs that produce nothing but unhappy workers and failed goal results.
Also, the public option is just another power grab that will eventually lead to more corporate takeover. For example, my home state had the state option for worker's comp insurance and it went broke (just like any fed program will, I assure you). Now, it's privatized and folks are forced to pay money to private corps without the corps having to earn it. Federal Government plans are similar in their successful destruction of personal liberty, regardless of their stated good purposes. Be careful what you wish for, because the road to serfdom is paved with good intentions. -
Besides the fact that he's one of that 1% you rail on about, besides the fact that he glorifies in everything bright and beautiful that is capitalism. But i gotta admit, my fave line I've heard from that new album is “Do me a favor – don’t do me no favors. I’ll handle mine”.
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Generalize much?
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quote: "I have to ask - is the concept of wealth distribution really a tired solution? Because for the last 20 years or so that is precisely what has been going on in this country."
Agreed- That is exactly my point - Capitalism hasn't failed - Socialism has! -
A CIGNA employee gave the finger -- literally -- to a woman whose daughter died after the insurance giant refused to cover her liver transplant.
Hilda and Krikor Sarkisyan went to CIGNA's Philadelphia headquarters, along with supporters from the California Nurses Association, to confront the CEO Edward Hanway over the death of her 17-year-old child.
In 2007, Nataline Sarkisyan was denied a liver transplant by the company, on the grounds that the operation was "too experimental" to be covered. Nine days later it changed its mind, in response to protests outside its office. It was too late: Nataline died hours later.
"CIGNA killed my daughter," Nataline's mother Hilda told security. "I want an apology." Sarkisyan was not able to speak to Hanway; a communications specialist talked to her instead. After their conversation, employees heckled the group from a balcony; one man gave them the finger. CIGNA called the police and had the family and their friends escorted from the building.
A CIGNA executive apologized for the incident in a letter about a month later.
"I was very disappointed to learn of the behavior of one of our employees when you were at our company's headquarters," wrote John M. Murabito, executive vice president for human resources.
"I sincerely regret this individual's offensive and inappropriate action," he continued. "Please know that he did not represent the views of our company or the views of other employees who work here. We deeply empathize with you and wish you peace and comfort in your loss."
"What unbelievable nerve," said Americans United For Change spokesman Jeremy Funk in a statement. "A case that should have prompted CIGNA to seriously reevaluate its policies instead led its employees to taunt and insult a grieving mother who lost her daughter. Absolutely sick. Does Congress need any more reasons to pass meaningful health insurance reform now?"
The Sarkisyan family's wrongful-death suit was thrown out of court because of a 1987 Supreme Court ruling that shields employer-paid health care plans from damages over their coverage decisions.
The Sarkisyans say the law needs to be changed to allow people to sue health insurers for these kinds of decisions.
"If you don't sue, you can't make changes," Hilda Sarkisyan said. "It's not about the money. It's about the principle. They are just going to keep denying people care if we don't stop them."
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/cigna-employee-flips-off_n_314189.html -
What began with Reagan and Bush Sr., and continued with Clinton (he was the one who made NAFTA a reality, and practically abolished welfare as it was known) and through 8 years of Dubya ... how, sir, did we possibly have "Socialism" in the last 20 years? I mean, prove me wrong but please don't pull shit out of the air and say you're right. Please.
Corporations have completely transformed the economic landscape, and created an unprecedented concentration of wealth and stratification of income levels during the last couple of decades. How in the hell can you tell me that Socialism has caused the problems we have now? Public hospitals privatized throughout the nation, sold by local governments to corporations - and you say we had Socialism?
Come on. Let's talk, but not out of our asses. Please. -
I can see we're coming together on some points. I think we are finding some common ground, that's nice.
For one thing though, I don't believe Soc Sec, Medicare are failures. They are quite the success. Social Security alone has staved off severe consequences of the recession. They are not broke - yet. But certainly the Boomer generation is stressing the system, that I don't argue. But abolishing the system is not the answer. Raising the ceiling on the taxes and recapitalizing the coffers is the answer. I know you and others have an inate aversion to taxation, but you know what, we don't live in a vacuum, we live in a nation that we all have to contribute to to keep it going. Wealthy people collect Soc Sec too. Like John McCain. Why should they have a cap on what they pay into it? Do you know how many people could very well live off the interest on their savings and investments, but still take Soc Sec? That's fine and all, but they need to pay more into the system.
Stopping failed wars on all fronts? Sounds like a plan to me. I totally agree with you. It baffles me that the same people on the Right who bitch and moan about paying for a public option had no care that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan actually cost a shitload more. I hate that hypocrisy. To me, spending money on our own infrastructure (including healthcare, education, and homeland security) is in fact not an expenditure but an investment. Bush just blew over a trillion on Iraq for no damned return, and in fact we had a loss of tens of thousands of casualties - not to mention the 100,000s Iraqis killed. Apparently the tea baggers think a dollar spent to kill is better than it being spent to heal, feed or educate. Amazing.
I disagree in that I believe governments (local and national) have many crucial roles, other than enabling commerce. I think you're a bit radical in wanting to shrink the government to almost nil. One of the reasons we are the world's most powerful (and IMO the greatest) nation is because we do have a strong government. The government accounts for, at last count, 30 to 35% of GDP. I think even more so today. Government spending fuels the private sector like mad. I think it could be controlled better and made more efficient, but I certainly don't believe in shrinking it to the extent you propose. The private sector is completely incapable of managing national infrastructure better than the government.
If we relied on corporations to build bridges and roads, you can bet they would do a shit job because their profit incentive overrides quality. Period. Just like the health insurance model. It would be a disaster. Only government oversight, with the power to penalize poor work (if politicians do their jobs properly) on behalf of the citizenry, is the only way to ensure we have a good infrastructure.
Even if your state mismanaged their programs doesn't mean a government run program can't work. Medicare is very effective - how much does everyone pay into it? Pennies on the dollar compared to private so-called health insurance. Yet they provide superior care. Medicare has 3% overhead compared to over 20% for the private insurers. And they don't deny care or have ever rescinded one person's insurance. Try that with CIGNA.
How about sending a letter anywhere with Fedex or UPS? It'll cost you $16, $17 minimum. The US Postal Service? What is it now, 44 cents? People bitch about postal rates but that's a goddamn freebie if you ask me. Government spending CAN be inefficient and wasteful. But when managed properly, it is most definitely superior to much of private enterprise.
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Oct 08, 2009 10:31:05 PM CDT
HOW ANYONE CAN HAVE ANY FAITH IN A "FREE MARKET" IS BEYOND ME
by bringingsexyback
This is what happens under deregulation already. Deregulate anymore, and you can expect to have your personal liberties completely annihilated under corporate rule:
" In 2005, Jamie Leigh Jones was gang-raped by her co-workers while she was working for Halliburton/KBR in Baghdad. In an apparent attempt to cover up the incident, the company then put her in a shipping container for at least 24 hours without food, water, or a bed, and “warned her that if she left Iraq for medical treatment, she’d be out of a job.” Even more insultingly, the DOJ resisted bringing any criminal charges in the matter. KBR argued that Jones’ employment contract warranted her claims being heard in private arbitration — without jury, judge, public record, or transcript of the proceedings. After 15 months in arbitration, Jones and her lawyers went to court to fight the KBR claims. Yesterday, a court ruled in favor of Jones.” Mother Jones reports:
Jones argued that the alleged gang rape was not related to her employment and thus, wasn’t covered by the arbitration agreement. Finally, two years later, a federal court has sensibly agreed with her. Tuesday, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals, in a 2 to 1 ruling, found her alleged injuries were not, in fact, in any way related to her employment and thus, not covered by the contract.
One of the judges who ruled in her favor, Rhesa Hawkins Barksdale, is a West Point grad, Vietnam vet, and one of the court’s most conservative members, a sign, perhaps, of just how bad the facts are in this case. It’s a big victory, but a bitter one that shows just how insidious mandatory arbitration is. It’s taken Jones three years of litigation just to get to the point where she can finally sue the people who allegedly wronged her. It will be many more years before she has a shot at any real justice.
“We do not hold that, as a matter of law, sexual-assault allegations can never ‘relate to’ someone’s employment,” wrote the court. “For this action, however, Jones’ allegations do not ‘touch matters’ related to her employment, let alone have a ’significant relationship’ to her employment contract.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/16/jones-sue-kbr/ -
Again – thank you for proving my point you ASSHAT! “Corporations have completely transformed the economic landscape, and created an unprecedented concentration of wealth and stratification of income levels during the last couple of decades.”
Who the hell do you think controls the Government? I have a surprise for you (CORPORATIONS!) And what a better way to fleece Amercians then by introducing Social programs that all of them have to pay into (thanks to taxes and other fees I know we all love = Socialism)
Um let see - Socialism in America, let me count thy ways "ahem":
Welfare, SOCIAL security, Socialized Housing Program of the National Housing Authority, Medicare, Medicaid, THE ARMED FORCES: The United States Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines and Coast Guard. THE INTERSTATE HIGHWAY SYSTEM
FEDERAL WATERWAYS.
THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
BUREAU OF PRISONS
Census Bureau
CONGRESS
THE PRESIDENCY
UNITED STATES DEPARTMENTS OF LABOR, AGRICULTURE, STATE, EDUCATION, INTERIOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE, COMMERCE, ENERGY, TREASURY, TRANSPORTATION, HOMELAND SECURITY , JUSTICE, ENERGY, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.
BUREAU OF ENGRAVING.
GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION
THE SURGEON GENERAL.
NATIONAL PARK SERVICE
THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION
ALL OF THIS INCLUDING 50 EXAMPLES OF FEDERAL WASTE:
1.The federal government made at least $72 billion in improper payments in 2008.[1]
2.Washington spends $92 billion on corporate welfare (excluding TARP) versus $71 billion on homeland security.[2]
3.Washington spends $25 billion annually maintaining unused or vacant federal properties.[3]
4.Government auditors spent the past five years examining all federal programs and found that 22 percent of them--costing taxpayers a total of $123 billion annually--fail to show any positive impact on the populations they serve.[4]
5.The Congressional Budget Office published a "Budget Options" series identifying more than $100 billion in potential spending cuts.[5]
6.Examples from multiple Government Accountability Office (GAO) reports of wasteful duplication include 342 economic development programs; 130 programs serving the disabled; 130 programs serving at-risk youth; 90 early childhood development programs; 75 programs funding international education, cultural, and training exchange activities; and 72 safe water programs.[6]
7.Washington will spend $2.6 million training Chinese prostitutes to drink more responsibly on the job.[7]
8.A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, including "over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold." The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.[8]
9.Federal agencies are delinquent on nearly 20 percent of employee travel charge cards, costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.[9]
10.The Securities and Exchange Commission spent $3.9 million rearranging desks and offices at its Washington, D.C., headquarters.[10]
11.The Pentagon recently spent $998,798 shipping two 19-cent washers from South Carolina to Texas and $293,451 sending an 89-cent washer from South Carolina to Florida.[11]
12.Over half of all farm subsidies go to commercial farms, which report average household incomes of $200,000.[12]
13.Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.[13]
14.A GAO audit found that 95 Pentagon weapons systems suffered from a combined $295 billion in cost overruns.[14]
15.The refusal of many federal employees to fly coach costs taxpayers $146 million annually in flight upgrades.[15]
16.Washington will spend $126 million in 2009 to enhance the Kennedy family legacy in Massachusetts. Additionally, Senator John Kerry (D-MA) diverted $20 million from the 2010 defense budget to subsidize a new Edward M. Kennedy Institute.[16]
17.Federal investigators have launched more than 20 criminal fraud investigations related to the TARP financial bailout.[17]
18.Despite trillion-dollar deficits, last year's 10,160 earmarks included $200,000 for a tattoo removal program in Mission Hills, California; $190,000 for the Buffalo Bill Historical Center in Cody, Wyoming; and $75,000 for the Totally Teen Zone in Albany, Georgia.[18]
19.The federal government owns more than 50,000 vacant homes.[19]
20.The Federal Communications Commission spent $350,000 to sponsor NASCAR driver David Gilliland.[20]
21.Members of Congress have spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars supplying their offices with popcorn machines, plasma televisions, DVD equipment, ionic air fresheners, camcorders, and signature machines--plus $24,730 leasing a Lexus, $1,434 on a digital camera, and $84,000 on personalized calendars.[21]
22.More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.[22]
23.Fraud related to Hurricane Katrina spending is estimated to top $2 billion. In addition, debit cards provided to hurricane victims were used to pay for Caribbean vacations, NFL tickets, Dom Perignon champagne, "Girls Gone Wild" videos, and at least one sex change operation.[23]
24.Auditors discovered that 900,000 of the 2.5 million recipients of emergency Katrina assistance provided false names, addresses, or Social Security numbers or submitted multiple applications.[24]
25.Congress recently gave Alaska Airlines $500,000 to paint a Chinook salmon on a Boeing 737.[25]
26.The Transportation Department will subsidize up to $2,000 per flight for direct flights between Washington, D.C., and the small hometown of Congressman Hal Rogers (R-KY)--but only on Monday mornings and Friday evenings, when lawmakers, staff, and lobbyists usually fly. Rogers is a member of the Appropriations Committee, which writes the Transportation Department's budget.[26]
27.Washington has spent $3 billion re-sanding beaches--even as this new sand washes back into the ocean.[27]
28.A Department of Agriculture report concedes that much of the $2.5 billion in "stimulus" funding for broadband Internet will be wasted.[28]
29.The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.[29]
30.Washington spends $60,000 per hour shooting Air Force One photo-ops in front of national landmarks.[30]
31.Over one recent 18-month period, Air Force and Navy personnel used government-funded credit cards to charge at least $102,400 on admission to entertainment events, $48,250 on gambling, $69,300 on cruises, and $73,950 on exotic dance clubs and prostitutes.[31]
32.Members of Congress are set to pay themselves $90 million to increase their franked mailings for the 2010 election year.[32]
33.Congress has ignored efficiency recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services that would save $9 billion annually.[33]
34.Taxpayers are funding paintings of high-ranking government officials at a cost of up to $50,000 apiece.[34]
35.The state of Washington sent $1 food stamp checks to 250,000 households in order to raise state caseload figures and trigger $43 million in additional federal funds.[35]
36.Suburban families are receiving large farm subsidies for the grass in their backyards--subsidies that many of these families never requested and do not want.[36]
37.Congress appropriated $20 million for "commemoration of success" celebrations related to Iraq and Afghanistan.[37]
38.Homeland Security employee purchases include 63-inch plasma TVs, iPods, and $230 for a beer brewing kit.[38]
39.Two drafting errors in the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act resulted in a $2 billion taxpayer cost.[39]
40.North Ridgeville, Ohio, received $800,000 in "stimulus" funds for a project that its mayor described as "a long way from the top priority."[40]
41.The National Institutes of Health spends $1.3 million per month to rent a lab that it cannot use.[41]
42.Congress recently spent $2.4 billion on 10 new jets that the Pentagon insists it does not need and will not use.[42]
43.Lawmakers diverted $13 million from Hurricane Katrina relief spending to build a museum celebrating the Army Corps of Engineers--the agency partially responsible for the failed levees that flooded New Orleans.[43]
44.Medicare officials recently mailed $50 million in erroneous refunds to 230,000 Medicare recipients.[44]
45.Audits showed $34 billion worth of Department of Homeland Security contracts contained significant waste, fraud, and abuse.[45]
46.Washington recently spent $1.8 million to help build a private golf course in Atlanta, Georgia.[46]
47.The Advanced Technology Program spends $150 million annually subsidizing private businesses; 40 percent of this funding goes to Fortune 500 companies.[47]
48.Congressional investigators were able to receive $55,000 in federal student loan funding for a fictional college they created to test the Department of Education.[48]
49.The Conservation Reserve program pays farmers $2 billion annually not to farm their land.[49]
50.The Commerce Department has lost 1,137 computers since 2001, many containing Americans' personal data.[50]
Now PLEASE convince me that this is not Socialism! WHO IS ULTIMATLY PAYING FOR ALL OF THIS?! Almost ALL of these are the drain on Americans and in my humble opinion if we are going to have socialism it should only be for two(2) things: Armed forces and Roads.
The only one I see talking out of his ass on the remainder of this talkback is –you BSB… you... -
Thank you for the wall of text. I shall read at lunch and get back to you asap. BSB out.
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Those in the free market, the regulated market, the public sector, the private sector, the government, the corporations, the royals, the commons, the rich, the poor, your friends, my friends, your neighbors, my neighbors, your enemies, my enemies, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Mormons, Atheists, Agnostics, Democrats, Rebublicans, Independents, Capitalists, Socialists, Communists, Marxists, Fascists, Fauvists, Impressionists, Expressionists, Romanticists, Environmentalists, Conservationists, Naturalists, Arsonists, Periodontists, Astrophysicists, Cellists, Bassists, etc etc etc.You're not alone in this.
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glad I stopped back to witness this bat shit nuts rant. what a waste of time
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