Cool News
‘Mommy’s Home!!’ November Comes Early And Friday Brings DOLLHOUSE 2.2!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
I am – Hercules!!
I’ll agree with those who said the greatness of last week’s “Dollhouse” installment didn’t have much to do with Echo. What made the episode was the sharp comedy regarding the Dollhouse’s clientele and the mind-bending position Claire “I Like My Scars” Saunders finds herself in following the explosive revelations of the season-one finale.
(In defense of the Echo parts, there WAS that great shot of Jamie Bamber staring at Echo through that glass door as she tried to jimmy open her new husband’s desk. And for all the “Mad Men” fans, how funny was Betty’s quick tug on Don’s locked drawer after she got off the phone with the governor’s advisor? I digress!)
Fox says of tonight’s installment, titled “Instinct”:
When Echo is imprinted as a mother with a newborn baby, she takes too strongly to motherhood as a result of Topher's modifications. Meanwhile, Adelle pays November a visit, and Perrin ramps up his investigation into the Rossum Corporation.
9 p.m. Friday. Fox.
Still here? Let’s talk about those opening titles.
Look how much more exciting the series gets when you replace the tra-la-la with faster drums and a louder electric guitar:
Conversely, look at the dude-repellent “Buffy The Vampire Slayer” becomes when paired with the “Dollhouse” theme:
Maybe they just need to use a better piece of Jonatha Brooke’s song, which turns out to be much better than its opening-title excerpt lets on:
Or, hey, how about scoring those titles with the bridge from Veruca Salt’s “Volcano Girls,” AS PERFORMED ENTIRELY BY PRETEEN GIRLS??
Follow Herc on Twitter!!
Next Month!!
Kubrick’s
Masterpiece!!
$8.99 Blu-ray!!
Next Month!!
Kubrick’s
Masterpiece!!
$8.99 Blu-ray!!
-
+ Expand All
-
2. hrm.
-
was there another episode aired I missed, because outside of nerd boy and scar girl the episode I saw was bad. Badly acted, badly written and it badly wasted what could have been a cool showdown between Helo and Apollo. Echo is wasted every week because what's her face a bad actress. Pretty yes competent no. Scar girl would have made a much better lead because she's what do you call it?... Oh yes, talented.
-
We still don't know Echo, or if there is any there, there, to actually be seen? Echo is just an empty shell of a person, a comatose body that can be reanimated with uploaded personalities which inhabit it? You cannot emotionally bond with such a character, and you can't care about such a character, or their story arc--as they have no personal life, or any real back-story.Joss claimed, yet again, that he had successfully cracked the story of "Dollhouse", and thus, found the show, and its story arc, but last week's episode was just a demonstation of more of the same, that of last season, and the fact that we are right back where we started...Groundhog Day!!!
-
If it falls to a sub 1.0 rating, do you think they will let the season finish out in it's regular schedule, shuffle it like the superior Kings, or just axe it right away?
-
... could bore the sex off an orgy. When every one of your songs belongs on a Starbucks compilation album, you're working from a bad place.
-
Now that's the most entertaining TV story I've heard about in months! Sex! Infidelity! Lies! Blackmail! It has all the makings of a hit!
-
But has not covered CHUCK in 2 years other than to (mistakenly) announce its cancellation.
-
Come on, in the world of countless CSIs, Cold Case, Bones, and all the other procedurals, isn't Dollhouse FAR, FAR, more watchable?
I've got no problem with Dushku as an actress, I think most of the time she's perfectly fine, its just unfortunate that Victor and Sierra are SO good that she looks bad by comparison. It seems like people hold this show to such a high standard just because its a Whedon creation, lets not forget that most of season 1 of Angel is rubbish and early Buffy was patchy in the extreme. Last weeks ep was not spectacular, but it was a solid opening. -
Tonight's episode was written by the "Reaper" creators Michele Fazekas and Tara Butters. Tim Minear wrote and directed episode 3 "Belle Chose" featuring Michael Hogan.
-
I will brook no impudence.
-
Correction: David Solomon directed the Tim Minear penned "Belle Chose". Their last team up produced Firefly's "Out Of Gas".
-
Just the melody they use doesn't make any sense in context, but the actual song ties pretty well
-
she's hot but she's a terrible actor...
-
WAY too much. I am a bit jealous; those girls are already cooler than I ever was.
-
99.99999999% of the time, it's bound to seriously go wrong and fuck things up, making anyone with a rational mind wonder why they even bother in the first place.
-
Face it. No matter how much you whine and moan, Dollhouse has a 2nd season, and nothing you say or do is going to change that. Dushku sucks? 2nd season. Whedon sucks? 2nd season. Dollhouse storyline sucks? 2nd season.
T:SCC? No season. Ever again.
So go watch your mindless network clones and shut your mewling cakeholes. -
I just really hope the main storyline isn't nearly as bad as it looks from the teaser.
-
Dushku sucks? 1.0 rating. Whedon sucks? 1.0 rating. Storyline sucks? 1.0 rating. You might want to have a little success before you run your mouth, because at this rate it's not going to get the 19 or 20 more episodes it needs to tie T:SCC run, and T:SCC was not a good show so what's that say about Dollhouse? Let's laugh over that again, you lost to Smallville's 283rd season opener. Ouch.
-
We saw several key elements get introduced last week. Echo is remembering skills and personalities from old imprints. Saunders is on the run. The senator has been introduced too. And Adelle seems to know that Echo is evolving in some way. Now like most set up episodes it was plot encumbered by what it had to lay out. But now that's done we should expect to see more story arc related developments which can take us towards the Armageddon of Self.
-
What's up with that?
-
Does ratings equal quality in your world? Does box office?
-
I would marry the shit out of her.
-
SCC already had its second season, so "second season" means diddly shit to its viewers. You can angrily boast when Dollhouse gets a THIRD.
-
and this show is so great, why is it not pulling in American Idol sized numbers? Do you know anyone outside of your geek circle who watches it? Will it be canceled once Summer Glau shows up? I've seen that prediction on other sites.
-
Every time you get a hint of some character being slightly in-control, you find out that the character is a doll. And with Saunders, that crisis of identity compels her to ... minx around in a teddy. Is the show ever going to STOP being a flimsy excuse for extreme T&A master-slave fantasies? This is pretty fucking sick. Saunders is going to be On The Run, in this new episode? Only to willingly return to the fold, like every other fucking useless Doll?
-
He's no J.J. Abrams, that's for sure. Fucking Buffy fans.
-
Mark my words. Then Herc can cry into his pillow every night about how unfair Fox was to again cancel a Whedon show that got shitty ratings. It's gotta be the network right? It can't be the fact that the show just plain sucks.
-
...the second season is only 13 episodes, it won't be here mid-season anyway.
-
http://tinyurl.com/yepmhxh
The season premiere "Vows" streaming at the GlobalTV website - just a head's up for the Hulu challenged. -
You could have hardcore heavy metal in the background, and it would still be only slightly less girly than "Gray's Anatomy".
-
http://tinyurl.com/yeyvc9s
Futon Critic article on friday night TV states that, "Plus, as usual, said info reveals several interesting trends such as the fact "Dollhouse" is FOX's first Friday newcomer to be renewed for a second season in 10 years... "
Surely, you'll allow us to boast a little? A smidgen? A tad? Nah, never mind.
-
http://tinyurl.com/lgkdr9
"Fox’s surprise show renewal Dollhouse had the largest share of its viewing by DVR for the 2008-9 season; 41% for the adults 18-49 demo and 32% for viewership overall."
1.0 rating was the same live rating as the series finale from last year. I don't think anyone was expecting that to increase. In fact, if I had a guess, I think the live rating will fall to 0.8 then stay there. But with DVR numbers added, you can predict a .5 increase. Is that good enough for the back nine? Probably not. However, combined with Reilly's statements re: consistancy, how much they love Joss & the budget cuts, it *could* be enough. Yup, definitly could be ;P -
The 18-49 gender demos were nearly dead even for Dollhouse. W18-49, 1.05 rating, M18-49 0.95 rating.
-
Gives a nice edge and tone to the entire story arc of the series. Interesting approach to the potential uses of the technology, and the results.And MM is full of crap, as usual: he is so entrenched in his own idea of what the show should be that he cannot accept anything else--and wanting to see exactly how Whedon has "cracked" the story develop in a Single Episode is exactly the same mentality as the Fox Suits who want more splosions n stuff in episodes to "hook" the audience. Patience in storytelling does not exist in their, or his, dojo.
-
I'm just saying they can't do so without putting their masculinity into question.
-
Nobody cares what you think.
-
I hope you are right--after seeing Epitaph 1, I am very interested in seeing where this story goes. Echo's growing realization of what is happening to her, and her difficulties assimilating and reconciling the imprints with her real self will be interesting, and the Dollhouse tech could be creating the person who will bring it all down. The apocalyptic vibe of Epitaph demonstrates what is really at stake, even more than the "rescue of Caroline" subplot.
-
If your idea of "masculinity" is pounding your chest and only liking manly action, then I feel kind of bad for you. What you are describing is a stereotype, something that I (and most of my male friends) don't fit into. I'm sorry that your thinking is so narrow that you can't watch a show about hot women kicking ass without "putting [your] masculinity into question." That's like saying that women can't enjoy 24 without putting their femininity into question. Bah, what a lame world you must live in.
-
At least it ain't as lame as "Dollhouse".
-
Jonatha Brooke’s song sounds very James Bonid-ish.
I could easily see the Bond opening credits over that song. -
As somebody who really enjoyed 24 when it first started, I can honestly say that I've had a MUCH better time with 14 episodes of Dollhouse than I have with the last two seasons of Jack Bauer running through nonstop cliches. The truth is that nobody is asking you to like Dollhouse. But you're the one coming into a Dollhouse talkback for no other reason than to troll. That has to make you feel pretty good about yourself, no?
-
Monty: "Did you see or touch a monkey?"
-
Joss was able to crack the story of "Buffy" from the moment the tv series started, but "Angel" took a few seasons, and "Firefly" started to kick-off in its mid, to late, season before it was cancelled...and of course, "Serenity" was just brilliant from beginning to end. I'm a guy, and I love Whedon's material, his problem has always been in the marketing, branding, and titling of his series, and his one film production, the latter being a film that he actually controlled, the reason why I used the word "one". Men are attracted to sex, violence, and sexy women--all of Whedon's productions have that, but if you don't project the plus' with the proper promotions and naming, you are not going to get the male audience. If Whedon opened-up a sex themed restaurant, he'd call it something abstract like Nirvana--well, somebody trying to reach a male audience, who is not out thinking himself, would just cut to the chase and say "Hey, why don't we just call this place, Hooters???!!!" You get my meaning, "Dollhouse" should have been marketed more directly to appeal to the masses, not just a niche group--a niche audience. Dollhouse, isn't a sexy title. I recall an optioned comic book called "Beautiful Killer". That title tells you immediately what to expect from it, and that is sex, violence, and hot chicks. Whedon's problem is that he is over thinking things and trying to make everything into Shakespear...when sometimes, if you are throwing a bootie party, that is what you should simply promote it as--Breast, Barrels, and Bootie!!!
-
Top Ten Reasons to Accept That Job Offer from David Letterman
10. Get to find out "Worldwide Pants" refers to his breathing
9. Whenever he has trouble performing, he can always count on Paul
8. Stupid Prostate Tricks
7. Pillow talk includes fond remembrances of working with Calvert DeForest
6. "Can Jay do this? Huh? Can Jay do this?"
5. Share in wistful late-life transition from "My girlfriend doesn't understand me" to "My wife doesn't understand me"
4. Will It Rise?
3. Tries to be nice about it when he passes you off to Biff Henderson
2. "Whoops, looks like Cheney isn't the only one who shoots people in the face"
1. After the sex, he lets you keep the Palin wig
from: http://jimtreacher.com/archives/002126.html -
I felt this way about Firefly as well but by the end of it's run it was moving to solve them and when the movie came out it proved there was a good story in there.
I get a hint of that with Dollhouse but I'm not sure there is a story there. I think the whole premise is flawed and it makes the formulaic episodes hard to take. Some mastermind figured out how to copy a persons memories, personality, identity, save that on a computer and then transfer it back into a human being and all they can think to do with this technology is run a prostitution ring? I'm sorry but that's weak. If there is a story here it doesnt revolve around the Dolls themselves it's about the technology and the people who control it. -
I, asked, you, already, to, stop, with, the, excessive, commas(,), in, your, rambling, posts. Did, you, fail, english?
-
I was a big fan of Buffy and Angel. Firefly and Dollhouse, not so much. Maybe if Firefly had run longer I would have gotten into it. It certainly was unique (literally a space western) and had some great ideas but it didn't really resonate with me. That's my opinion of Dollhouse too. I love JW's philosophy of having season arcs and series arcs which tie everything up nicely. I wish Ronald D Moore (BSG) and Chris Carter (X-Files) would have written their shows like this.
-
reminds me of awkward porn for some reason.
-
Oct 02, 2009 2:15:01 PM CDT
Here's the perfect song to replace the current DOLLHOUSE theme
by spyguy
http://saturn.titanblogs.com/links/Russell%20Watson%20-%20Faith%20of%20the%20Heart.mp3
Cannot. Possibly. Fail.
-
and i guess dollhouse is pretty good
-
http://www.videography.com/article/87688
Just in case anyone cares to continue the subject raised in last week's TB - a link to an interview with the new Director of Photography Lisa Wiegand about which cameras she uses to film the show.
"The second season of Twentieth Century Fox Television’s Dollhouse is being shot with the VariCam 3700, Panasonic’s premier solid-state P2 HD VariCam camcorder."
-
I think Epitaph One actually showed that your take on the show is correct, but as a positive, not a negative. The one take-away I took from that episode (and this season's premiere), is that the dollhouses are essentially all about being testbeds for the new technology which, in essence pay for themselves through the services offered. It definitely puts the whole thing in a context that makes a bit more sense. It's easy enough to see the bean-counters of a totally amoral scientific research company signing off on a measure that allows human-level research to continue at almost no cost.
-
Dollhouse ain't the manliest name for a TV show out there. Then again, neither was Buffy. Or Angel. Or Firefly...
WAH!@ They're all twinky!!! :P~~
-
I will admit this is all from a JW fan. However, I don't think I'm a blind follower... while I loved the hell out of Firefly, I tend to like only specific seasons (season 3 of buffy) or episodes (Hush/The Body/Once More with Feeling/etc.) of Buffy and angel.
Honestly, my biggest problem with the premiere of Dollhouse this season was that there was no recap at all... I think anyone tempted to try the season out who was not already a fan would have been utterly confused. -
I use them to emphasize a point, through movement of a certain cadence that I may be trying to express, at any given time. You'll recall Joss Whedon saying that many of the lines of dialogue that he wrote for "Alien 4" were uttered wrong...thus, the meaning of the sentences, and or, the spirit in which they were meant, within that dialogue...changed, slightly, to greatly. That is why I place commas in the areas of sentences that I do--again...for point of emphasis, to establish mood, and rhythm--for me, the writer, as well as you, the reader.Now stop nitpickng with me, and start talking about the bigger issues like, who the F**k is Echo and why Joss Whedon failed to allow us to get to know her, her inner mind, her wants, needs, loves, fantasies, hates, fears...weaknesses, and strengths--so far, she is just a broken sex toy, with no mind--a walking talking vegetable??? Again, the story Joss gave to Whiskey in the premiere episode of the new season, should have been Echo's cathartic story arc, not for just this season, but rather, the show should have started by introducing Echo to us...and Topher, the way we saw Whiskey and Topher relating to each other..and that should hsve come in the debut episode of the series. And yet stll, to thiis date, we know nothing of deep import about Echo, emotional or otherwise--and that is just bad writing???
-
I use them to emphasize a point, through movement of a certain cadence that I may be trying to express, at any given time. You'll recall Joss Whedon saying that many of the lines of dialogue that he wrote for "Alien 4" were uttered wrong...thus, the meaning of the sentences, and or, the spirit in which they were meant, within that dialogue...changed, slightly, to greatly. That is why I place commas in the areas of sentences that I do--again...for point of emphasis, to establish mood, and rhythm--for me, the writer, as well as you, the reader.
Now stop nitpicking with me, and start talking about the bigger issues here...like, who the F**k is Echo...and why has Joss Whedon failed to allow us to get to know her, her inner mind, her wants, needs, loves, fantasies, hates, fears...weaknesses, and strengths--so far, she is just a broken sex toy, with no mind--a walking, talking, vegetable??? Again, the story Joss gave to Whiskey in the premiere episode of the new season, should have been Echo's cathartic story arc, not for just this season, but rather, the show should have started by introducing Echo to us...and Topher, the way we saw Whiskey and Topher relating to each other--and that should hsve come in the debut episode of the series. And yet--still, to this very date, we know nothing of deep import about Echo, emotionally, mentally, or otherwise--and that is just bad writing??? -
just watched episode 1 of season 2 and honestly i feel like it was episode 2, as if i missed a whole episode that wrapped up the season finale...any help ?
-
please stop comparing writing TV shows to writing talkback posts. "Establishing mood" in a TB, what the fuck are you smoking?
We don't get to know Echo because she didn't exist until the show started. Those personalities are coming together...slowly. Face it, your take on the show is not coming forth, so if you want to criticise then fine, but at least criticise the show AS IT IS, not how you WANT it to be. Why is it that you end sentences that don't appear to be questions with not 1, not even 2, but 3 question marks????????? What type of mood do you think that creates? -
Boba Fett is on. Oooh yeah.
-
please, stop, comparing, writing, TV, shows, to, writing, talkback, posts. "Establishing mood" in, a, TB, what, the, fuck, are, you, smoking?
We, don't, get, to, know, Echo, because, she, didn't, exist, until, the, show, started. Those, personalities, are, coming, together...slowly. Face, it, your, take, on, the, show, is, not, coming, forth, so, if, you, want, to, criticise, then, fine, but, at, least, criticise, the, show, AS, IT, IS, not, how, you, WANT, it, to, be. Why, is, it, that, you, end, sentences, that, don't, appear, to, be, questions, with, not, 1, not, even 2, but, 3, question, marks????????? What, type, of, mood, do, you, think, that, creates?
APOLOGIES to everyone else. I just thought I'd illustrate to him how annoying ammended posts are. Sorry. -
id like some of that stuff hes smoking as well but im afraid i may rename myself todd and start wearing argyle socks and move back in with mom... look i used no commas, lol.
-
when i rip my pants i get a mend, lol
-
What kinda help are you looking for? If it's the progression, the S2 premiere episode "Vows" takes place 3 months after the end of the network broacast of S1's season finale "Omega".
[Epitaph 1 was a non-broadcast/dvd-only ep that takes place 19 years in the future. You can view it as a compainion piece to S2, if you like. Or as Joss prettily put it, "watch season 2 through the lens of Epitaph 1".
There are recaps of all the episodes at televisionwithoutpity[dot]com that are funny, snarky & fair. -
a Dollhouse TB? Skipping MM's posts.
-
...is not delivering! You say that character development is coming along slowly, but it has now been 14 episodes, and we know as little now...as we did, after Dollhouse's first episode, which is close to nothing? Well, this has to be the slowest character development for a character in a TV series, in television history? We don't even know Echo's motivations, or if she even has any motivations, or a mind at all? We don't know if there are good guys, or bad guys, or just indifferent people that populate the universe of Dollhouse, as everyione is in the gray???At this slow rate, the show will get cancelled before any of these things happen, and perhaps this is by design--perhaps Whedon and Fox are just trying to extend things, long enough, so that fans will be invested enough to buy the DVD set of the second season, after the show gets cancelled mid course. Perhaps, that is the secret business model here, to treat this show as a limited series, one which is only being used to promote the aftermarket DVD sales, because this series appears to have absolutely no voice, or direction--Joss Whedon is acting like Jason Pollock, and throwing all colors of paint at the perverbial wall...and calling the resulting havoc art?
-
That Fox promo of Brothers/T'il Death/Dollhouse. It's all, "Yay, funny, funny, Eliza with a knife! Stab the baby! Stab the guy! Stab yourself!" Talk about mood swings. MM probably gets it.
Now, I'm not ragging on the Studio (REALLY different division from the Network) for not giving this show a chance. It has had chances and then some. They have bent over backwards so far they are talking into their asshole. I'm guessing that has a lot to do with Whedon putting out 10 seasons of well-sold television over the years. However, will I be surprised if this gets yanked after 3 episodes. Nope. Will I be surprised if it gets a back nine & an S3? Nope. -
I'm too sexy for you to avoid mentioning me, I see...Buffy? Don't worry, I'll get around to staking you just like Spike, in what Season 6--Buffy's season of sex???!!! Spike staked her all season long--and she couldn't get enough!!! Angel ain't got nothin' on me. Just call me the new resurrected Spike.
-
Just the wind.
-
You mean Jackson Pollock. I guess.
What do we know about Echo? Well, we know she has faith in humanity, and is not like Alpha, who sees himself as a new improved type of human. Echo sees herself correctly, as a conglomerate of personalities. Whereas Alpha discounts them all believing himself to be inherently better, Echo values each and every one of them as a real person. We know that she wants to re-unite them with their original selves. From Epitaph One we know she is fighting against the oppressive Rossum corporation, and that she does so with great personal sacrifice. We know that she is a new type of human, an evolving personality in a situation where that should not be possible. Yes, its coming along slowly, but at its core this show is still a procedural, and the plot comes first. And in future keep your Whedon/Fox conspiracy theories to yourself. -
...all these A-Sexual men posting on here. I'm a misunderstood bad boy/man, just like Spike, but then again--Spike always loved Buffy more than Angel...speaking of A-Sexuals, that would be Angel.
-
Forgive me, I'm a committed dyslexic!!!
-
I very much believe that there is no such person as Caroline anymore. There is only Echo. There is nothing cryptic about her emerging self. "Vows" was pretty straight-forward, I thought - the most hand-holding script I've ever seen from Whedon since "Man on the Street" from last season.
-
so in effect EVERY new persona Echo gets imprinted with will be another facet of her character...stick that in your pipe and smoke it MM!
-
Well, my point is this. Whedon is a brilliant guy--you'll give me that--and he is surrounded by brilliant people...right, or we would hope? I have always found that when something doesn't make sense, and rather loudly--and very smart, to brilliant people are involved, with that which doesn't make sense, well, it ultimately makes perfect sense to somebody...by way of a plan. So, what I am saying is simply this--there has to be a purpose, the fact that there is no real sign of character development in the series with respect to Echo, despite open promises by Whedon in interview, after interview. There is an agenda here, and I just gave a theory as to what it might be. Perhaps I am very wrong, or perhaps, I am very right?
-
I am talking about Echo finding a voice, whether it is by way of cypher, independent, or by way of Echo herself--something inborn. But good theory Buffster. Now that is what I call a real debate, in place of calling names.
-
well i know about recaps, and i havent seen epitaph yet... i just want to know what happened that echo is not with alpha anymore, that shes back at the dollhouse just haven got her memory wiped from all the personalities alpha put in her. what happened to alpha ? i watched all of season one including the finale, and i was watching the premier saying wtf....will epitaph clear anything up ?
-
i think echo is the only one left as well...and i dont really need to know about caroline....i think the progression of the character has been her retaining imprints which seemed like reactionary in season 1, but now she seems to be aware that she was different people, which in my opinion is character progression. might not be what some people want, but if ya dont like it, dont watch...
-
after Echo chases him from that power plant thingy. Adelle vaguely mentions him at the end of "Omega" about him being elusive at this point. But the way things are going on "V" for ABC - the show that Alan Tudyk got picked up in - Alpha might be around again before you know it.
E1 isn't going to help you much with the *natural* character progression of any of main cast. You see a lot of end results but not how they got there; that is what they are working towards. However, you should watch E1 if you can. It's tight as a fucking drum. -
Worth watching just to see Alexis Denisof act again. Man needs to do other things besides baby-sit.
-
The show just turned into "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles"...for that one hour. As far as the season premiere, Alpha just disappeared? On Disk 4 of the DVD set, hidden in the extras, is the original pilot episode of "Dollhouse" and you will like it very much...and Epitaph One has its moments, especially during its second half...but, the show is really just a patch work of material that is never quite seamless--still, I will not give-up on Joss, as he is some kind of wonderful--yet, at the same time, he, and his characters, are as flawed as the rest of us, and maybe that is why we love him, and them? Watch that new Seth McFarlene show Cleveland something? Now that is smart writing! Much of the dialogue reminds me of Joss, perhaps he should try a comedy show, ala a situation comedy, or an animated series next?
-
....by November sweeps, and only brought back at some point later in the season when it doesn't matter anymore to burn off the remaining, unaired episodes. Whedon, or no Whedon, Dollhouse is and will continue to be a ratings cellar-dweller. It is literally the lowest rated show of all the four major networks, and yet here Hercules is giving it a dedicated talkback every week. It boggles the mind.
Just my two cents though.
-J. -
Caroline and Fred were hollowed out(Shells!); Fred's was filled with a Dead!God, Echo has been filled with glitching multiple identies (not personalities but Identies). Where as Alpha has used his multiples in a more Illyria-ish way (To never die and to conquer all - that is winning), Echo seems to be devolping in the opposite direction, almost in a Jasmine like way (without the eating of people and the maggoty head.)
So yeah, I think some people would connect with the show better if Echo pulled an Illyria and was just suddenly a different, fully-formed character. But this not that type of show. No demons other than what you possess.
-
....by November sweeps, and only brought back at some point later in the season when it doesn't matter anymore to burn off the remaining, unaired episodes. Whedon, or no Whedon, Dollhouse is and will continue to be a ratings cellar-dweller. It is literally the lowest rated show of all the four major networks, and yet here Hercules is giving it a dedicated talkback every week. It boggles the mind.
Just my two cents though.
-J. -
You are ruthless--leaving no room for debate? I respect that, at least, you think over the opinions of others though, before telling them not to watch.
-
10/2 "Instinct", 10/9 "Belle Chose", 10/16 planned preempt, 10/23 "Belonging", 10/30 "The Public Eye".
Thanks for the reminder, lockes. -
Actually no, I normally don't give a toss about ratings I just find it hilarious that a show could premiere with such abysmal ratings for a major station and still get to run smack on other shows. I love Science-Fiction; I could list all the shows and movies I grew up on, but I figure the majority of the readers here already know them by heart from their childhood. I also have enjoyed just about everything Whedon has done so far, and if it wasn't for Farscape, Firefly would have been the best Sci-Fi show I've ever watched most likely. So, I'm not a Whedon hater, I don't dislike Sci-Fi shows in general, I don't care if Dushku get's an Emmy or get's canceled, I just want good, solid tv that entertains me. Dollhouse has never done that save for one episode (two if you count an episode that never aired). More often than not I can't make it through an episode in one sitting, and I do watch every episode( and not just for new ammo to sling at posters.) I'm sarcastic and a bit of an ass sometimes, but I really want as much good to great sci-fi on my tv as possible. Dollhouse simply isn't a good show and when it's gone after this season, I will tune into Joss' new show at Day One and hope it entertains with more leeway than I give most other shows because I know he almost always delivers. He just didn't hit the mark this time. Dollhouse is boring, and was kept alive over better shows (with no trace of the word Sarah or Connor in the title) simply as a make-up for shit-canning Firefly too early.
-
my breaks didn't work. Yay wall of text!
-
This is really the River Tam show--a completion of River's arc--but just recast in the past, our present. As I suggested, about 7 ago, it would be nice to find-out that, in the end, that the Blue Gloves and Blue Sun corporation. run the Dollhouse...and that their actions, ultimately lead to River Tam...and the events in Firefly/Serenity...hundreds of years later. Now, that would be one mind blowing ending to Dollhouse. As we end it with the opening scene of River's incarceration and escape as seen in "Serenity".
-
This is really the River Tam show--a completion of River's story arc--but just recast in the past, our present. As I suggested, about 7 months ago, it would be nice to find-out that, in the end, that the Blue Gloves and Blue Sun corporation. run the Dollhouse...and that their actions, ultimately lead to River Tam...and the events in Firefly/Serenity...hundreds of years later. Now, that would be one mind blowing ending to Dollhouse. As we end it with the opening scene of River's incarceration and escape as seen in "Serenity". Might be fun to learn that River's fragmented personality...is also known as Echo?
-
Oct 02, 2009 7:14:06 PM CDT
Brothers, Til Death are terrible, TERRIBLE lead-ins!
by hollywoodhellraiser
I remember Joss making a joke about it and I have to hand it to him for having a sense of humour!Its standard Fox protocol to wanting to see Dollhouse or SF fail!Friday nights is already tough, but to put on shit like Brothers and Til Death is a funky move!
-
I hear ya. Sorry to hear it's not clicking for you; like a lot of people, you are not alone. The science of the show is not really science. They have chair. And a computer. And a nerd.
I find a lot of my enjoyment of the show comes from what is going to happen next. And I think a lot of people don't care about what's going to happen next, so much as what is happening at that moment.
I do not agree with the Firefly apologist theory though. Different time, different execs. I feel like it is used as an excuse of why the show was renewed other than legit things like budget cuts & licencing deals. -
why would they only use the boring/girly la-la-la part? Between this and Firefly, I think it's safe to say Whedon has no idea of how to pick an audience-friendly theme song. (sorry to sing-along browncoats but you know that song wasn't remotely commercial)
-
to include the word amended in its subject heading. That is all. . .for now.
-
...the song used to close "Epitaph One", it is such a brilliant song--a tune written by Joss' sister inlaw and his brother, I think? It just sings to your soul.
-
the word amended in its subject heading and also to correct the previous comment's grammatical errors. That is all. . .for now.
-
re: me talking to myself
-
He has tendancies, is all I'm saying.
-
to what?? Mind's in the gutter attached to my body.
And finally, a VanHalen ref that actually *explains* the imprinting process. About time, I say. -
is not creepy at all. *lockes door*
-
and pushing a baby carriage. True.
-
She's a ghost again. With the same memories but no explaination as to why, unlike "Ghost" ep.
-
This IS as bad as the Teaser made it look.
-
Is that a mind-wiped baby?? That better not be a mind-wiped baby...
-
yikes!
-
And Madelyn, GOOD GOD!!!!
-
I'd trust Adelle about as far as she could throw Mellie.
-
This show is only remotely interesting when Eliza is off-camera.
-
Creep alert! Creep alert!
-
This episode is bringing the suck. That was ten fucking minutes of worthless.
-
Spiffy jacket, yo.
I wonder why they gave Echo Seirra as extra back up? Is it because of her glitching or something more? -
And I agree with the Eliza assessment.
-
I mean, really. Adelle has a great fucking comeback for those whiners who don't like what's she selling though ei: NO REFUNDS ON ALTERATIONS
-
Is this an afterschool special?
-
Eliza screaming after her baby freaked me out.
-
Look at those milkbags! I already wanna be that kid!
-
And THIS is what you decide to produce? Really?!?!?
-
heheheh *gutter*
-
the "kidnap" baby thing didn't last too long.
-
That's how pointless this episode seems.
-
Nice and thick! Fantasy! Fantasy!
-
I'm not really answering the question.
-
Any time Topher gets punched; chug a beer!
-
You're like 5 minutes ahead of me. It's freaking me out.
-
And something needs to hap...Oh Shit! FAKEOUT!!!
-
I think I only really like Eliza when she's angry.
-
R2 beeped a lot, while Anakin and that annoying Padawan chick sliced up a lot of Roger Roger droids.
-
Scotty talking into a mouse: Computer? Computer?
-
Better run, creepy husband guy.
-
And geez that car was not only unlock its door was practically wide open!
-
Will we get the meaning of Deadbeat Dad???Hey, its windy outside and the door unlock...it can only mean Jason is in the lose!
-
Hope it heads for an over the top cheesy ending.
-
Who read this script and thought it was a good idea to produce. It's absolutely horrible.
-
If he play his cards right maybe he'll get some lovin'!
-
Don't you DARE make me feel sorry for creepy husband guy.
-
Bummer.
-
For Angel Season 5 Wolfram and Hart commando dudes to just come in and fucking machine gun every fucking person in the room.
-
He's never made a show this inconsistent before.
-
you have a short season! Every episodes needs to be balls and kickass!I can only assume shit is going to get wild pretty soon!
-
Nexxt week things better be good!
-
EVER. EVER EVER EVER.
I did not care for it. No sir, I did not. -
Seriously, you guys are going to throw up in your mouths a little but that whole episode was a giving birth metaphor: from the happiness of discovery, to the screams of birth, to the post-partum depression. It also makes Mellie/November/Madiline's appearance very fucking timely.
But yeah; it was basically a stand-a-lone until Ballard & Echo's park scene. -
Dude, pass the bong.
-
I *told* you you'd throw up a little :P<
-
did Dushku say "fuckin" again?
-
http://tinyurl.com/yhzkap5
"'Virtual Echo'" Turns Dollhouse's Squick Factor Up To 11"
This is the kind of promotion I'm talking about. It's steeped with retard.
-
because its true, with each singer the band did suck more. especially when that Extreme guy was there for a whole one album.
-
writes a mean show. Lockesbrokenleg, you do have taste. Speaking of Lost, I am really looking forward to the new season. Shows need more cliffhangers and thrilling conclusions, not recycling the same actors and dialogue from other shows and pasting them into a "new" genre. Dollhouse is on notice.
-
Everyone is back. The plotline for season six will have alternate realities! How cool is that?!!!
-
Lost has always kept me guessing. Good to see it taking more chances. I'm going to miss it after this season, but it should finish well
-
...right now.The Van Halen line? t's true except for the original bass player--he is literally the worst bassist of all time? Who even noticed the guy was missing from the band???uh oh, it's breast feeding time???!!! I need to be that baby--now!!!
-
Almost forgot, Lost has a tight continuity and always treats its fans to fun hints from the entire series. I mostly watch Lost and Supernatural now, most of the other genre stuff isn't my cup of tea.
-
Goodness!!!
-
some of you constantly gripe about how horrible the show is, yet you still obviously continue to watch it - apparently for the sole reason to complain about it. This makes no sense to me. If you must watch and criticize, at least provide some suggestions that you think could improve it to maybe start some constructive conversation and/or debate. No show is going to be perfect. Some episodes will suck, some will be great. The key is to find the shows with potential and hope the great will far outweigh the suck. Epitaph one gives this show all the potential in the world. Give it a chance.
I do think they could benefit from more backstory about the origin of the dollhouse and its ultimate objective and some of its characters and their motives. The client-of-the-week formula is getting a little old. Bring on the big morality questions behind creating/killing personalities that we saw in epitaph one and last weeks scene with Topher and Dr. Saunders. Thats where the show really works and where i believe it ultimately is heading given the chance. -
fans are ready for another buffyverse project. and their numbers are decreasing every day. "Dollhouse" is all nice and shiny, but it just feels like filler. the only reason I tune in is out of respect for the work. don't get me wrong, it's very interesting and well conceived, but he's already created this huge, beautiful universe full of fun, interesting characters, and he's just letting them sit there and rot. Fuck the Buffy and Angel "canon" comics. There's actors more than willing to get on board (Tony Head, James Marsters, Eliza), and vampires are "in" right now. Maybe it's just me being a raging nerd, but all watching this show does is make me want more of the other shows.
-
Oh, so he's actually still trying to bring down the Dollhouse? What about all the other ones? Doesn't he need to find who's behind the Dollhouse and bring them down?
This was one of Eliza's better acting jobs, I must say. The frantic, fanatical mother let her cut loose and overact, which seems to be the only time she imbues true passion into her acting. lousy use of Sierra, and no sign of Vic. I liked the first ep better, when you had the action centered around the Dollhouse instead of the individual missions. Where was Boyd? Suddenly he's unavailable?
Nice to see Wes get some work. As a threat he seems even less threatening to DH than Ballard was.
Why are there no black dolls? We see a couple wandering around in the 'House, but none on missions. No main characters are black, either (except Boyd). Is that intentional? Where's Rev Jackson with an army of picketeers?
Almost done. It's nice they're finally having Echo develop a bit, but if she doesn't remember it during an imprint, what good is it? She should be using bits from other imprints during the latest one. How cool and freaky and dangerous would *that* be? -
I like it quite a bit, but Dollhouse = Terminator. Bith shows were interesting, uneven, and Dollhouse, like TSCC will die after year 2. Also, Joss, when the finale comes, don't kill anyone right as they get together with their love. You know, like you did with Miss Calendar, and Anya, Tara, Fred, Cordy, Buffy's Mom, Darla, Kitty Pryde, the girl in Dr Horrible, etc. The kill 'em off act is DONE, brother.
-
Let's see Ballard and Echo on the run, using Echo's various skillsets, running into the other Dollhouses, and Rossum, etc. Let's plant the seeds for the wipes going black market and people trying to broadcast it over the phone. Epitaph One rocked, so let's get there. Stop with the one-offs and Adelle lusting after Victor and let's see something that doesn't work out by the hour's end.
-
I was surprised...but it was well done, fun, entertaining on all beats, tightly written, and smart!!! Oh, and those...tight, white...shorts...goodness!!!
-
Agreed, no more client of the week episodes! It is time we learn the big agenda of the Dollhouse...and find-out who are the good guys, the bad guys, and see a scenario that will allow us to finally see them square-off; a time when we can root for the heroes, whomever they may be, and boo the villains...whomever they may be!!! I think the show has a great overall story, if Joss would just let it unfold, and trust his audience with it. I could even see the show spawning a movie ala Serenity, one causing fans to demand a franchise--and get this, I could even see it return as a TV series...at some point, but it is one that will only work, if they get off the ground running, by giving us all the roles, telling us, who is who--their background stories, their mythos, and letting the battle begin, instead of hinting at what secret conflict which may be in store. That is the difference between Bourne Indentity and Dollhouse, or Serenity and Dollhouse, or even Buffy--these other productions, and their stories...allowed us inside the greater battle...and its scope...right away, where as Dollhouse shields us from it, and makes us wonder, is there even a battle to be had, at all, or is this just an amoral world...with no heroes, or villains--just a status quo of sad irony--where heroes and villains are more fable, than reality, and where there is more bad in the world...than good--but then again, that would be the real world, something we all use entertainment--to escape.
-
Agreed, no more client of the week episodes! It is time we learn the big agenda of the Dollhouse...and find-out who are the good guys, the bad guys, and see a scenario that will allow us to finally see them square-off; a time when we can root for the heroes, whomever they may be, and boo the villains...whomever they may be!!! I think the show has a great overall story, if Joss would just let it unfold, and trust his audience with it. I could even see the show spawning a movie ala Serenity, one causing fans to demand a franchise--and get this, I could even see it return as a TV series...at some point, something that will only work, if they get off the ground running, by giving us all the rules off the top; telling us, who is who among the characters, and what side they are on--their background stories, their mythos, their hurts, agendas, and grudges, and then, just press play, and let the battle begin, instead of hinting at what secret conflict, which may, or may not, be in store. That is the difference between Bourne Indentity and Dollhouse, or Serenity and Dollhouse, or even Buffy--these other productions, and their stories...allowed us inside the greater battle...and its scope...right away, where as Dollhouse shields us from it, and makes us wonder, is there even a battle to be had, at all, or is this just an amoral world...with no heroes, or villains--just a status quo of sad irony--where heroes and villains are more fable, than reality, and where there is more bad in the world...than good--but then again, that would be the real world, wouldn't it, something we all use entertainment--to escape?
-
Zzzzzzzzzz
-
Oh, my God---have mercy!!!
-
Tell me the the truth: What was your handle before your were banned?
It was skywalkers_family, wasn't it? Remember how we gave you shit for coming back after you got banned after the Dark Knight moniker & we told you not to put a "_" in your name because we could tell it was you? Then you got banned AGAIN?
Your M.O. has never changed. You post one or two sentences in EVERY talkback ever that are negative and/or non-contributing.
It's talk-BACK; not talk-AT, man. -
Joss, or whomever, needs to drop the attempts at weekly field trips and just concentrate on the mythology. The missions are poorly done, distracting, and make the show an inconsistent mess. There have got to be better ways to get Dushku into skimpy outfits, as they feel the need to do. This week's daddy issues was WTF? bad. Dude--they have ways to cope with those situations, it's called therapy. It looks like you can afford to see a shrink. The last act with the on-so-convenient blackout, lighting storm and the kitchen knife were straight out of a bad horror movie. Noticed that things then conveniently cleared up as soon as it was time to have the talk on the bench.Gotta do better than this, even by cult standards.
-
Post lines of crap. Even the dummbest poster her knew from the start your are not or never have been a writer and are just some kid in his mothers basement trying to be clever. Give it a rest already its gone stale.
As for Whedons writing he is a good writer but not a brilliant one. His biggest weakness (which you being a writer should know) is that he often raised an issue but then copped out/ignored or just plain dropped it because he either didnt or couldnt find a way to examine it.As for S6 and S7 two yrs of pure shit capped off by the awful Chosen urghh. Buffy was never the best show ever argubly its best yr was S2 and never scaled those heights again. Compare that to The Wire/The Shield/Rome/Deadwood/Farscape/Life on Mars (uk version) those were shows that were consistently good and actually examined issues that they had raised. -
...THAT A SHOW IS ANYTHING MORE THAN A COMPLETE AND UTTER FUCKING TRAINWRECK.
-
I must admit I got into the story A BIT as it progressed. The problem is the story itself is very much without danger, we know nothing will happen to the baby, because its FOX, we know Echo'll be ok, the only person who could've been hurt was the dad, and he only became a character in his last scene. So no empathy there either. Still, the freakout scene in the police station was good and it did offer another twist on the Dollhouse tech. Last scene was good too.
This was the first time I've noticed the reduced budget (no Victor or Boyd, and very few sets) but it was an okay ep. Disappointing in places, solid in others, pretty damn naff occasionally. -
Judging by the ratings the answer is not for long.
-
you are correct Locke was the late and unlamented Skywalkerfamily.Its pretty funny how Lockes is the one person that makes MM seem a tad bit lucid. I'm not sold on the fact that they are different people, They might be different personalities of the same fractured mind.
-
would be a great Talkbacker name.
Just sayin, -
I am not a published writer, in long form, but I know my stuff. I am chiefly a song writer, and I have had some material out there, and I am as good as, or better, than most people you hear on the radio, however--in this business, people have become very greedy concerning publishing money. Years ago, it was a lot easier to place a song, because everybody and their brother wasn't attempting to be a song writer, however, things have changed, thanks to the masses learning that if you get one hit song, and if it is big enough, and you own the rights to it, publishing wise, you can retire a very wealthy person. Well--now you have people writing songs who are well connected, who have no business writing songs, the reason why there is so much terrible trash on the radio and on MTV these days. It doesn't matter if you are good, or great, anymore, it matters if you control the real estate, that being the song publishing rights (aka the song ownership). BTW, I never said that I was a published script writer. I have studied writing, and I know my stuff, as I said, but perception is often everything--and again, who you know, or don't know. In respect to experience, look at the woman that wrote Harry Potter, or the one that wrote Twilight--now I know that those aren't screenplay writers, but...one went from being a single mom who was homeless to being a multi-billionaire, and the other, a stay at home mom...who is well on her way to becoming a billionaire--BTW, the latter lady, Stephen King says isn't even a good writer. My point is, you are what you do. Do you know how Slash became a great guitarist? He decided to pick-up a guitar and play, that's how. He doesn't read music, and his two main inspirations were his uncles who play guitar by ear. BTW, he was in my brother's band, and the guy was great before he was in Guns 'N Roses--and he is a real sweetheart of a person--zen like, in his manner. I mention him because, he created his own right to be called a great guirarist, or to be called a guitarist at all...by simply doing it, and not assuming that he could not be that, because some fool somewhere told him he was not that, so he could never be that. I am a writer, and a damn good one. I could beg the people I know to help me advance my material and get it in the right hands, but as I said before in the past, they are not offering, so I am not asking. Should they offer, and open-up the door for me, I will certainly accept.
-
Got any more snide comments, you Joss lovin freak?
-
I'm extremely disappointed in Dollhouse right now. The symbolism of marriage and birth in the first two episodes has been shoved down our throats, and to boot, the plot lines have been absolutely atrocious. This stuff is straight out of 80's t.v. drivel, and it's the worst thing Whedon has done in a long long time. If I had never seen this show before, and these were the first two episodes I'd ever seen, I would never watch the show again. Period. I will continue to watch because there's not much else on that's interesting right now. But Dollhouse, if you were to be canceled right now, I probably wouldn't miss a beat.
-
Why are you two fighting? Make love, not war. Besides, you two have something to you unite against, and that is me. Think about it, why waste your cheap shot comments on each other, when you are better served wasting them on me, and beating me up for no apparent reason but to do it, as you always do? Anyway, I hope that my peace negotations have ended the war between you two, and you can both get going trashing me unfairly again. Love, your dear frienemy, MM
-
Why are you two fighting??? Can't you both just--get along? Make love, not war. Besides, you two have something in common to unite against, and that is me. Think about it, why waste your cheap shot comments on each other, when you are better served wasting them, that is, your cheap shot comments, on me--and beating me up for no apparent reason...but to do it, as you always do? Anyway, I hope that my peace negotiations have ended the war between you two, and you can both get going...trashing me again, unfairly.
Love, your dear Frienemy, MM -
It's funny that the people who say I was banned before have ALSO been banned numerous times. Grow up people.
-
I'm on good behavior now because got tired of the bannings.
-
I was actually talking about myself--it reads like I might have been talking about you in my last post, but no, I have been in the banned club too.
-
...Frienemies...forever!!! We have a special love/hate relationship that I'd miss if you ever decided to wise-up and like me.
-
at one time or another. Hell, I was banned from a Trek website 3 times.
-
For simply saying that the media has been harder on Kanye for saying that he like Beyonce's video better than Taylor Swift's...than the industry ahs been hard on Chris Brown for beating Rhianna to within an inch of her life. "That's were the story is", I said, "All these Hollywood cowards take the time to blast Kanye...because they know that he won't move to hurt them, but they all seem afraid of Chris Brown and the thugs that are backing his career--or else they'd stand-up to a person and say, "Kanye stealing Taylor Swift's moment; rude silliness, at the least, and a publicity stunt at best, either way, nobody got physically hurt, or threatened--where as, Chris Brown tried to kill a lovely human being, that being...a woman, for questioning whether or not he was cheating on her?" Well, I was promptly banned for that comment on another web site??? Ridiculous, especially since I made a good point about other stars, members of the media, and the public, regarding their failure to really come down on Chris Brown, while blasting Kanye as if he was the one that beat a women senseless??? My ulitmate point was, they seemed to be saying that, "Hey, if you beat a black women up, and put her in the hospital, that is sad, but if you take an awards moment away from a white woman...well, that is just criminal, vicious, unforgivable, and crossing the line--as if to suggest that a black life is worth far less than a white life???" Boom--after I posted that, I got banned??? Well, sometimes, pointing out the flaws of the media, is costly, cause the truth hurts regarding their, or anyone else's, double standards.
-
...for simply saying that the media has been harder on Kanye West(for saying that he likes Beyonce's video better than Taylor Swift's)...than they, the industry, have been hard on Chris Brown...for beating Rhianna to within an inch of her life? "That's where the story is", I said, "All these Hollywood cowards took the time to blast Kanye, publicly...because they know that he won't move to hurt them, but they all seemed afraid of Chris Brown and his thug associates...that are backing his career, and still seem afraid--or else they would have stood-up, to a person, and said, "Kanye West stealing Taylor Swift's moment (and Taylor being a lovely human being); Yes, it was rude silliness, at the least...and a publicity stunt...at best--either way, nobody got physically hurt, or threatened--where as, Chris Brown tried to kill a lovely human being, again...that being...a woman by the name of Rhianna, for questioning whether or not he was cheating on her?" Well, I was promptly banned for that comment from another web site??? This action was ridiculous, especially since I made a good point about other stars, members of the media, and the public, regarding their failure to really come down on Chris Brown, while blasting Kanye as if he was the one that beat a women senseless??? My ultimate point was, they seemed to be saying that, "Hey, if you beat a black women up, and put her in the hospital, that is sad, but if you take an awards moment away from a white woman...well, that is just criminal, vicious, unforgivable, and crossing the line--as if to suggest that a black life is worth far less than a white life???" Boom--after I posted that, I got banned??? Well, sometimes, pointing-out the flaws of the media, is costly, cause the truth hurts regarding their, or anyone else's, double standards.
-
there that liked the classic series and nothing else shit on people that liked everything, and the old fag douchebag moderator banned all the new fans and left all the old shitheads. I think the same 10 kiss assers are still there.
-
...Joss Whedon? I said that the producer of a Buffy copycat series is a "Moron" for the way he belttle Buffy in an interview by marginalizing it--then I was promptly rebuffed over it by the moderators...and told that they do not allow insults over there. When I asked why I couldn't state my opinion, after all, "Moron", is a medical word--well, so much for that argument, they banned me anyway--a spiteful reflex action, assume? So much for the view that people should be allowed to have their own personal freedom ala what the crew of Serenity was fighting for, and Joss Whedon was forwarding via Firefly/Serenity? Plus, I must say, that whenever I gave a view contrary to the thought that Joss Whedon can do no wrong, I was always being attacked by Joss' other fans? For instance: It could be just me saying that the film print could have had more light saturation in it? Suddenly, blam...I was under attack? Or if I said that Eliza wasn't giving her all in her acting, with respect to Dollhouse, as compared to her work as Faith--well, you'd think that I called her the C word...with the way I was routinely assailed for my words. It was just simple things like that--or when I disagreed with the mean-spirited ending of Dr. Horrible; Oh, was I the bad guy, even though they, the other fans, didn't like the ending either?
-
Most every site I've been to including Force. Net, etc. have the most shittiest moderators that ban you if they don't agree with you, or if they have "mod wannabes" that tattletale on every little thing you do.
-
...from Whedonesque.com, is my political opinions, as based on Serenity...and other science fiction works, and I think the moderators didn't like it, but I did nothing to violate their rules, though they said that I was bringing a much too serious tone to my postings...and pressured me to stop doing it, although no other poster expressed disdain for my points of argument. I basically was saying the the Democrates and the Republicans are the same party, playing the game of good cop/bad cop--but government policies, and the system, always tend to remain the same, hence proving that they share an agenda. Their banning me, that is the folks at Whedonesque.com, for calling that producer a "Moron", a guy who doesn't even read, or post on their web site, was just an excuse to ban me. The guy who banned me, who's name is Simmon, was on a real power trip that night. By their actions, they taught me that even liberal led web sites, and liberals in general, can be just as dictatorial as conservatives--something that shocked me, but squared with my view of governemnt politics--I just didn't expect that via a web site that invites comment--especially an entertainment news web site?Look, I agree that those who cyber stalk, make threats, and purposely use hate speech, or those whom try to disrupt a web site's technical operations...deserve to be banned, and instantly, but someone who is just debating various subject matters...with regard to their interests, should not be banned--as it only serves to decrease web traffic to a web site, and lessens the amount of available hits for that site, and thus, hurts their ability to make money via advertisers--since the less available posters they have, the less ad revenue a web site generates. And the less a web site grows in popularity, net traffic, and ad revenue, the less chance it will have to continue to successfully flourish.I feel that people should be repeatedly pre-warned of a banning possibility...openly, as well as by personal email to those persons by way of the site, in case of misunderstandings on either side, and there should be 3 day suspensions period, and probation periods...of up to a few weeks to a year--but posters under such a probation period should still be allowed to post. There should not be a death penalty in terms of posting...just because someone gets on the nerves of others sometimes. I still think that Choclate Woman was one hell of a contributor to this site. She was funny as hell, certainly rude, argumentative, and sexually explicit, but she could be very insightful...and just plain brilliant--as she knows her stuff in respect to filmmaking, story flow, editing, cinematography, lighting, you name it. It is a real shame that we lost her over her doing one of her comic riffs, one that was designed to provoke heated emotional reactions, but one that was still well within posting rules, in my opinion. She was just being like the boys who pull the little girls' pigtails to get attention because they like them...and in that way, she was just flirting--granted, it may have been subversive flirting, but I have seen the guys who post here...do far worse, and not get banned.
-
...decades ago. It's not used by any self-respecting professional these days. Hint: neither is "retard".
-
And trying to interpret someone's intent as being within the context of a bannable offense, based on the usage of such a word...is just silly.Go after those posting Hitler Youth cheers, not somebody who is defending a TV--Movie/writer/director/producer over another. Enough with the overly PC stuff, what happened to "You Can't Stop The Signal"...or can you?
-
Since her "missions" seem to NEVER go right.
-
...Season Two spec outline on another site that Whedonesque linked to. My points where in direct answer to the subject line of the article, "Should Dollhouse Be Sent To The Attic", or something of that import, and within 2 hours, my post was removed? My posting was respectful, and formed of two short paragraphs, and one long paragraph...in length, and perfectly non-offensive. My comments should not have been deleted or censored in any way, shape, fashion, or form.That is the problem with Whedonites--this type of bullying of those who may have a different view of Whedon's work--as those who have challenging opinions, opposite of the Pro-Whedon line, are often made targets to be silenced--even if one means well?I was once a proud Whedonite, and a Browncoat, but I am glad that I don't count myself to be one of their number anymore. This bullying mentality is embarassing, immature, and wrong...on all levels of proper decorum; and if they have done it to me, and on numerous occasions, at that, then you can imagine the many others this has been done to also, and the overwhelming reason that Whedon's audience is shrinking in number, and not growing.I don't blame Joss for this, as I believe he is a good man, and has nothing to do with such activity, but some of the seemingly nice, but, covertly, meanspirited Pro- Whedon fan sites and their administrators are chasing away new, and old, converts to Whedon and his often amazing work, and in droves. If the good folks at Mutant Enemy were not aware of this activity, hopefully they are now aware of it--thanks to this missive, and will do something to stop it.I love AICN.com, for at least, they allow debate n their forums and that is truly democracy in action--which is what Whedon's work is all about--strange how the fan sites that support hm don't seem to understand that or appreciate the central message of his work--which is freedom of mind, spirit, and body.
-
And maybe we can tell you what's wrong with it? (ie, why it would have been deleted)
Maybe they have a fear of triple question marks??? -
...over the last 7 months...just for points of argument, and what not. The reason why I use triple question marks, etc., is simple-- it is for point of emphasis for readers. Writing, like any form of art, should be open for personal artistic metamorphosis...and self interpretation--ala music and filmmaking, the latter in the realm of directing, cinematography, film editing, lighting, audio editing...and even acting. Think about the person who invented method acting, for instance? If they had been shutdown for being different, where would acting be now? Sure it would still be good, but less varied! I see no one protesting method acting, or how it changed cinema and TV...or that of filmmakers altering the status quo, ala George Lucas and the four merging stories as expressed in American Graffiti--something never before done in film? So why is it then, that we can personally interpret those things, but writing is not allowed to bear an individual's personal touch, and personal style, or signature, and thus...evolve--well, at least when it comes to new artists and writers? Now that I have explained myself, here is my Unsolicited Spec Outline for the 2nd Season of Dollhouse. It was designed to evolve the characters, and the concept of the show...and move them to the next logical step, while answering these questions: Who is Echo? What does she feel, or think? What is her purpose? What is the greater story here? Who are our heroes...if any? And who are our villains...if any...and how do they relate to each other; What is their mythos? Anyway, here is my outline:The FBI discovers, and secretly raids the L.A. Dollhouse, freeing the captive Dolls/the Actives in the process. Moving to re-purpose the Dollhouse, and its facilities, the FBI asks many of the freed Actives to serve as operatives for the agency--programmable agents who will be tasked to help them find, and expose...the full purpose of the other 19 Dollhouses that are secreted, somewhere across the world; operations that the Feds suspect carry an ominous purpose--one that, as a collective, carries a threat to world security. Unlike their time spent as Dolls...within the L.A. Dollhouse, the Actives will know who they are, and retain their personaliities...therein, mission to mission, episode to episode--however, the difference here, is that they can be programmed with new and varied skills befitting their assigned operations, i.e., including martial arts, languages, accents, weapons mastering, etc., while again, still retaining their stationary personalities. There'll be no more personality wipes, save for one purpose--guarding above top secret intel--thusly, an Active/Agent may be wiped of certain mission details after the engagement--for their protection, and that of the government.The Actives, would now have regular personal lives outside of the Dollhouse, including their own homes or apartments, friendships, lovers, family, so on...and so forth. We would see their background stories, their loves, their everyday life pressures, just like anyone else--something that would only add to the scope of their characters and better round them as people. I added the detail of them retaining their memories during missions, so when they are placed in jeopardy, we can fear for them...as we see their own natural reactions to the dramas they face, as they unfold. We see their fears, their anger, weaknesses, their deceptions, and their heroics, as they reflect them--not something that comes by way of someone's pre-set programming?If Echo is an uncomfortable situation, or in danger, and reacts...she is making the decision to do so--she is using her own free will to take on the enemy, or flee an engagement, or to simply outwit, and out manuever her targeted foes. It is that free will, as demonstrated by the characters, that will allow viewing audiences an entry point into the characters and give us a personal stake in their lives--as it allows us to care for them, to root for them, feel afraid for them...when they are placed in jeopardy, laugh with them, cry with them...and feel a kinsmanship--or even vicariously live through them. I really feel that my additions to, and alterations of, the landscape which is Dollhouse, has served to crack the story...and makes it what is should be, or should have been, a sort of modern "Joe 90" meets "Alias" and "The Bourne Identity". The current continuum of Dollhouse...under Joss Whedon's mandate, offers the audience no real emotion involvement into the inner core of the central characters of the show, that being the Dolls, and insight into the specific Doll that this show is suppose to be about...and that is Echo/Caroline; So far, the lack of such exposition is something that has undermined the drama in the series. Echo hasn't had a real romance on screen--and although we see her confusions...in her foggy state as an Active, we don't see any real personal pain or thinking process that we can relate to? Echo, in between her missions, is just a 5 year old, in terms of maturity--one that has no personal will...she is simply a robot--a vegetable. My outline gives you a fully realized and thinking woman, who makes her own choices for self, God, and country--the key to the character. And when she does something heroic, she sacrifices herself, out of choice, not due to programming--the stuff that makes a hero, a heroic. Yes, I give you a hero in her, my primary mission statement, in addition, I give you a human being you can say you have something in common with, in terms of her loves, family, friendships...and what not--something that we just don't have in the sitting status quo of Dollhouse. I posted this well ahead of Joss Whedon's second season story pitch to Fox--why no one at Mutant Enemy or Fox could see the pluses of my outline, I don't know...but it certainly fixes what is wrong with the series, opens iit up dramatically--and serves to give the show the group dynamic that so many Whedon fans have asked for, one that depends on character interaction through a common fight, and the bonding found in that fight. In my story arc, we would witness these characters become heroes...and villains...develop grudges, and reasons for revenge. I gave them purpose, beyond just serving as prostitutes, week to week, for rich white men. The average person in the audience is middle-class-- that is the meanstream audience, and Whedon's audience is made-up of a majority of women, that isn't news to anyone, however one must ask the question: How can they relate to rich men exploiting women every week??? That is what my story arc addresses, answers, and does away with. No more client of the week stories--we get back to the mission statement of Buffy and Firefly...and show women in power...making choices for themselves, not simply because a man told them to do it.
-
...by memory. The writing that I posted above is near exactly what I wrote last night on the other web site, as you will note, nothing in it is offensive in terms of violation of any posting policies...and yet amy writng was removed? That is the kind of perfectly unnecessary censorship, and reactionary (political) ugliness that I am discussing--that is emanating from Whedon-centric fan based web sites. When a person posts, and they are being a Lady or a Gentleman...they should be shown proper mutual respect.
-
Sorry for the typos!
-
Because, that would just fuck my eyes more brutally than Avatar could ever do.
Well, the fact that your posting from memory means that it's at least *possible* that whatever faux-pas was responsible for the deletion, might have been left out of this version. (I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, just to play devils advocate. You may be right in your assumptions about the reasons for the deletion.) If you did something which was against the rules of the board, or posted something genuinely offensive, I'm sure it was done by error, and not malice. You're just not that type of guy. And if it was done by error/ignorance, then it could easily slip your mind here, because it would not have any particular weight in your memory of the post.
Anyway, I'll scan through this in more detail and post my thoughts in a bit. -
One other quick point, since I just read the first paragraph. (I'm hoping you'll do me the courtesy of reading all of this, instead of blindly assuming I'm "attacking" you in some way.)
While you're correct that writing can be open to artistic interpretation and development, the rules of grammar should not. Especially if you want to be understood or taken seriously. If Joyce had written Finnegans Wake as a first novel, he'd have been put in an asylum or something. He had to first prove he was a literary genius, before he could take literary conventions and turn them on their head. Picasso had to show he was a brilliant painter, before his more fractured work could be looked at as a departure from the norms, instead of merely a lack of skill.
You, on the other hand, seem incapable of giving the reader the benefit of the doubt, that they will understand your point. You feel that you have to use excessive commas and grammatical symbols to get your point across with the correct cadence and emphasis. Even to the extent of reposting an entire message to correct a typo. Most people would know, expect and assume that the reader can understand their point without this level of explicitness.
As a very brief aside, I'll simply say that this inability to get inside other peoples point of view and make such standard allowances, is a common symptom in some types of autism. Like when you ask someone for directions, and they give them with a level of detail that seems to imply you are new to this planet...
Anyway, back to the Dollhouse post... -
I'm going to respond by quoting a line from your post, and then my response to the lines leading up to that...
You're right, in that I've read this outline before. The Alias-meets-Jo90 outline, though you've gone into more detail here. Anyway...
"engagement--for their protection, and that of the government."
If you were going to do this, why not use actual FBI agents? Why restrict yourselves to the Actives? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
"The Actives, would now have regular personal lives outside of the Dollhouse, including their own homes or apartments, friendships, lovers, family, so on...and so forth."
Why?
"as we see their own natural reactions to the dramas they face, as they unfold. "
So they are not dolls. That means that they can *never* be totally convincing in the roles they assume. They will always be *acting* the part.
"she is using her own free will to take on the enemy, or flee an engagement, or to simply outwit, and out manuever her targeted foes."
Fine, except this is now like any other spy-drama (Alias). And not unique or different. I really get the impression that Joss was going for something unique and different with this series. Something we hadn't seen before. He's made his money and fame already, so he may be bored providing the same-old thing time-after-time.
"and makes it what is should be, or should have been, a sort of modern "Joe 90" meets "Alias" and "The Bourne Identity". "
I think it could be argued, especially since you compared Epitaph One to Terminator the series, that you fail to recognise what Dollhouse is actually about. Thus, your continued insistance that it should be something else, or should have been from the start.
"and insight into the specific Doll that this show is suppose to be about...and that is Echo/Caroline"
I think they are moving in that direction now, as Epitaph One showed.
"she is simply a robot--a vegetable."
I think that's the point. I don't see what a love-interest for Echo brings to the table. The point of the show is that she's supposed to be a blank slate, a cipher.
"My outline gives you a fully realized and thinking woman, who makes her own choices for self, God, and country--the key to the character."
And there, I think, is your assumption that the show needs to be about a self-aware individual. I don't. And I don't think Joss does either.
"And when she does something heroic, she sacrifices herself, out of choice, not due to programming--the stuff that makes a hero, a heroic. "
I don't think Echo is supposed to be a hero. I don't think there's going to be any heroes in this show. Just the slow steady collapse of humanity because we can't restrain our use of technology.
"why no one at Mutant Enemy or Fox could see the pluses of my outline, I don't know"
Possibly because it wasn't read…
"I gave them purpose, beyond just serving as prostitutes, week to week, for rich white men."
You know from watching the show, that it’s not week to week prostitution stories, right?
"How can they relate to rich men exploiting women every week??? That is what my story arc addresses, answers, and does away with. No more client of the week stories--we get back to the mission statement of Buffy and Firefly...and show women in power...making choices for themselves, not simply because a man told them to do it."
And again, I think you're missing a key point here. Possible because you are a man yourself. How many women go through life feeling like a cipher anyway? Feeling like they must fulfil a particular role because despite society's improvements, it's still a male-dominated world.
"When a person posts, and they are being a Lady or a Gentleman...they should be shown proper mutual respect."
While I agree completely there, and I don't think there was anything in your post which warranted a deletion, I don't know the site in question and I don't know their policies. I also agree up to a point about the respect for posters thing, with the Talkbacks on AICN being an obvious exception. The reason being that the amount of abuse flinging on AICN has become something of a Hollywood legend. I find it hilarious at times, just as a reader. And it's nice to know there's somewhere you can go and say anything about a movie/actor and rant away. Even if it flies in the face of majority opinion. I hated the new Star Trek movie. I thought Inglorious Bastards was the most offensive movie I've ever seen, and I've seen Two Girls One Cup for fucks sake. On the talkbacks, you can verbally defend any point of view in a free-for-all, and I think that's great.
The downside being, naturally, that sometimes sincerity can be mistaken for something else. -
...as well as Agatha Christie...and Producer, Author, TV Writer...Stephen J. Cannell, who has extreme Dyslexia. Like Cannell, I am a Dyslexic, and I do believe that I am an undiagnosed Autism Sufferer so it is very interesting that you were able to see that? I am functional, meaning I can fake it for people, and make them feel that I am right at home with them, but you can often feel emotionally removed from any given circumstance, or person. You want to belong, and have great empathy--but you sort of just zone-out, and feel isolated in you own little world--just thinking to yourself, like a meditation. Exercise seems to help with that...and vitamin B12. It is strange, but the depiction of the Dolls in Dollhouse...when they try to push through their memory fog, and how they try to square it with their reality...is how a Functional Autistic feels. You sometimes have to force yourself to smile when others do, or find the energy to converse with them when you don't feel that you have the emotional reserves, which can be very, very tiring on the mind and body. I never have been in a state like Silvester Stallone's son, which is Autism to its extreme...and I am thankful for it, but it is his story that informed me about my issues--however I must say, that Functional Autistics can be very brilliant. In fact, my Brother believes that Slash may be one. He has genius, Slash does--a knowing about music--and he is Zen like in his nature. I met him before, and he was exactly how my brother described him--very mellow, shy, and a kind spirit.My brother is a genius, and doesn't have the blocks that I have, which can be a curse for me, as well as a gift, as I often have great insight. I can hardly play an instrument, but I can write great songs. I don't have the full grasp of punctuation...grammer, or spelling, but I can write great stories structurally--as I just understand the form--just like Slash, in his ability to play guitar by ear, but he does not formally read music, or like Paul McCartney. As I said, it is a gift, and a curse, being different in this way, but I would not trade it in, to be like everyone else, as the gift part of it--is awesome to experience--pattern recognition abilities, and all.
-
*Why Give An Active Their Own Mind On A Mission?: It is sort of like, fighting fire with fire? When has the government not used a new weapon when they have had the chance? An Active, can virtually be anybody, anywhere, at anytime, for any given reason--within minutes. No need for 2 months prep time, or 6 months of briefing, you can place
that person in any given situation, with any given intel, within minutes, or hours--depending on how long it would take to program them. Besides, I am just playing in Joss Whedon's toy chest, attempting to fix what is broken about what I think is a brilliant idea--just one that is not fully rounded. Lastly, in that regard, an Active can go off mission, or may not be able to react in accordance to changing circumstances as immediately as a fully conscious agent, the benefit of leaving an Active with a conscious mind...while in the field, over a brainwashed--cypher.
*The Actives Having Normal Lives: Once freed from the Dollhouse, the FBI just can't keep these people as slaves--as we would like to see the Feds as heroes, in such a circumstance, right? The logical move, and this is Writer's Prerogative, of course, is to return them to civilian life, so that they may live like, or as, the normal citizens they were before they were recruited to become Dolls. This gives the writing staff a chance to explore them as characters, in a deeper way, ala--seeing Caroline go on a date, and bam...enemy agents come after her...and she has to play the weak female, while managing to covertly take-out her attackers...all under the unsuspecting nose of her date who doesn't seem to notice anything out of the ordinary--as Caroline, takes the offenders down in a stealth manner. That would be an interesting sight gag for viewers, but aside, and separate, from that...we could learn how lonely she is, and in need of a deep relationship--one that her days spent as a Doll have denied her...and something her new job as a agent for the Feds, would threaten--that being her chance to be a mom, a happily married wife, etc. Can she ever have those things without the fear that, bam, bang, the bad guys will intrude on her life again--or even the good guys? That is an interesting question to ask...and a similar burden that Buffy faced?*Not Fully Being Dolls: Acting the part of whatever cover persona on a mission, will be their Kryptonite, their vulnerability as Actives--it just serves to place them in a less perfect situation, that forces them to think on their feet...thus, adding to the drama for audiences--and humanizing them. Audiences need a strong emotional connection to the leads of a drama, whether they be good, or bad people...and or, something of a question. If you are watching a wholly brainwashed person on a mission, who cares (?), but if Jason Bourne (Echo) can think of his own mind, he becomes interesting--and becomes his own man, a hero you can root for, and call heroic. You can't call a wholly brainwashed person a hero, or heroic, as they are not responsible for their choices and actions in displaying heroic acts--that credit would go to their programmers--where is the dramatic fun in that?*The Love Interest: When a hero has no love interest, you lose a lot of dramatic possibilites. People loved Buffy's story arc, because at its core, she had the Romeo and Juliet tension between herself and Angel, and those trying to tear them apart, both friend and foe...and even family. The dramatic tension was as hot as you could get! And when Angel was gone, there was Spike, the other bad boy--an enemy turned stalker, turned lover, turn abusive boyfriend (you'll recall the rape attempt?), turned redeemed lost love. The female audience wants a good love story...and I have found that love stories, those of redemption, revenge, and or, spiritual quest...are the most powerful in film. A hero needs motivations--Echo have none? *On Not Having A Hero--Or One With A Stationary Persona: Obviously, Joss does not feel the audience needs a fully realized person to lead the show, just as you don't, and that is fair, your views, but the audience is complaining, at least, most people whom I have seen place comments about the show on the net, are sending in complaints about this omission. They are asking for someone they can get to know, as the lead for the series, someone they can relate to...in Echo--one of the reasons why the audience isn't growing for the show, I think? The entry point character, as we were led to believe, is Echo...and she, in the form of a personality, has not shown-up to the proceedings...leaving most audiences wanting?*Cyphers Just Don't Work Unless They Have a Mind: In not having a hero, the show seems to be on the line of Secret Diaries Of A Call Girl, a series about a woman who is a sociopathic prostitute...but at least, she has her own mind and motivations, Echo however, has none...and that is a dramatic dead ender. You have to give people hope, even if you are showing them the coming end of the world, and a cypher personality, much like that of a sociopath... a person that cyphers personalities around them, without emotion, or empathy--can work, as long as we see that they are thinking. The girl on "Diaries" is a low level sociopath, meaning, she does have some empathy, and cares what people in her life may think of her double life, thus, allowing us to care about her, but you can't relate to a complete, and total cypher. Thanks to her narrations on Diaries, we get to know her, but sadly, in the case of Dollhouse, we know little to nothing of the mind of Echo--she is just a sex toy--most of the time--a metaphorical Fantasy Island to be rented...one with breasts, shapely legs, and a nice ass, but no mind to help advance the story?*Fox And Mutant Enemy. Did Someone In Their Camps Read My Outline?: Often times the reason for dedicated Talkbacks, are the fact that they are used for promotions of TV series or films--so someone at Fox or Mutant Enemy most likely is sponsoring it, and they read a sampling of our posts, I am sure.Dollhouse On Prostitution--And Rich White Guys Renting Women For Sex: The majority of the engagements on the show, have been prostitution oriented, both directly, and indirectly, like Tempura Joe, or the Dominatrix job. You may, or may not, see it on screen, but it is often alluded to, or the aftermath of an engagement is shown, one with strong sexual overtones--the reason for my mention of this fact. Ep 1 began with "The Girlfriend Experience" in the opening act, the original pilot the same, Ep 2 the same, and later...in another episode, we saw Echo married once, including sex, that was last season, then in this season, she was married again in episode 1, and in episode 2...of this season, to different guys, and sex was involved with the first guy, and most likely, the second? Echo has now been married 3 times on the show? And last season, Victor was used for sex by the top exec of the Dollhouse, etc.Women And Being Cyphers: Yes, you are correct, women do often feel like cyphers...but Buffy, Firefly, and Angel offered them the chance, the fantasy, to feel empowered...and that is what Dollhouse is missing. Whedon Fan Sites, And Knee Jerk Banning Policies: You'll recall when I mentioned studio sponsored promotions in the above text? Many fan sites are sponsored so heavily by the studios, and or, production companies, that they, those fan sites like Whedonesque.com, develop a ovezealous attitude regarding protectionism of the product, therefore, if they see you as a threat to that product, or to their sponsorer--you, the poster, have to go. It is simple economics, and often times, based upon just plain greed. -
I've never tried to claim that dyslexia is an impediment to success, so I don't understand the need you have, to remind us all (in various threads) which successful artists have had this condition.
I find it interesting that you think you think you may be an undiagnosed autistic sufferer. If you genuinely think you might be, I really don't understand why you haven't seen a professional about it.
As I've said before, there are (or were) several people on the talkbacks with some experience of different mental disorders.
Now, you can decide if the tentative way I brought up autism (I didn't want you to have a knee-jerk assumption that I was attacking you in someway) was either a lucky guess, a co-incidence, or an *educated* guess. But regardless, I find it noteworthy that you never got a proper diagnosis to confirm or refute that burgeoning suspicion you have about yourself.
Anyway, enough with that, and on to the second of your posts. -
*Why Give An Active Their Own Mind On A Mission?:
I never actually brought this one up. The point I was making, was why limit yourself to using actives? Why not use actual trained agents, of which the FBI has many?
"the normal citizens they were before they were recruited to become Dolls."
But this, again, seems like a bizarre use of the technology to me. These people, its already been established, became dolls for specific reasons (money, and often some psychological issues). So who's to say they'd want to return to "normal" life, while working with the FBI? You say that the FBI can't keep these people as slaves, but what, they can force them to work for them? It just doesn't consistantly make sense to me.
"takes the offenders down in a stealth manner"
This is too much like a Clark Kent must secretly do super-shit while on a date with unsuspecting Lois. It's been done COUNTLESS times, and making the protagonist female instead of male is not different enough these days, in the post-wonder-woman era.
"That is an interesting question to ask...and a similar burden that Buffy faced?"
As did Sydney Bristow and various others. Again, your rehashing old ground here.
"*Not Fully Being Dolls"
Again, I agree that having a Jason Bourne type situation is more provocative for the hero-archetype, but I don't agree that this show has to follow the traditional trappings of hero-dom.
"The love interest"
We really don't agree here. I think the love interest is SO overused, that it's actually refreshing to see a show where the female isn't always chasing a man, or worried about what a man thinks of her, or trying to get over a man... Jesus H, we get it already. I never liked that side of the Buffy series either. If anything, I thought a supposedly progressive series about a strong empowered and independent woman, was hampered by that most contemptuous of tropes "She loves a bad boy". You want the "Good girl loves a bad boy" arc? Re-watch Dirty Dancing or something.
Personally, I like the idea that Echo's love story (not romantic love) could be between Echo and Caroline. Caroline was a broken woman when she approached the Dollhouse. Echo will be the sort of woman that Caroline never dreamed she could be. And that will help Caroline, because if Echo could do it, then so could she. I think there's a lot of room for a very complex development there, with Echo's growth acting as Carolines therapy, and growth-by-proxy.
And when's the last time you saw a show like *that* on television?
"A hero needs motivations--Echo have none? "
I don't agree. I think Echos motivations will come from her growing sentience and wish for autonomy, much like the Dr. Sanders persona.
"leaving most audiences wanting?
"
I think you have a point here. The audience may not be interested in the sort of story that Joss is trying to tell. But then, does he alter the story completely for the sake of possible commercial success? Or does he tell the story that he wants to tell, and hope the audience is interested in the same things that interest him?
I know what I'd choose in his position. I also know that if I wasn't in his position, if I was a first time show-runner, I'd probably compromise all over the place to get a sliver of success. But Joss doesn't have to do that.
"*Cyphers Just Don't Work Unless"
I really think you're overdoing the Diaries comparison and prostitute comparisons. In all the episodes of Dollhouse, the whore aspect has been a tiny part. If you have millions to spare on whores, you can get much better looking ones than the dolls.
In any case, the development of Echo as a fledgling character in season two, should make this point moot.
"*Fox And Mutant Enemy."
As you know, this opinion of yours is ... a minority one. I can only say that you're way off base with this, but you won't take mine (or anyone elses) word for it, so we'll agree to disagree.
"but Buffy, Firefly, and Angel offered them the chance, the fantasy, to feel empowered...and that is what Dollhouse is missing."
I disagree. Buffy was empowered because she was Chosen, she was special, one of a kind, one in the world. How can a girl relate to that? Same with Angel. Even if they SORT of related to Cordelia in the early days, she quickly became half-demon. Fred was a maths genius (how many girls can relate to that) and then possessed by a goddess. Again, how can that speak to them?
Leaving aside the missions aspect of Dollhouse, the idea of a woman who is treated by those around her as a cypher, gradually attaining her own independence from authority and learning to become her own idealised self, is something I think could speak to disenfranchised women. But I could be wrong, since I'm a guy.
"Knee Jerk Banning Policies"
Again, I don't know the site in question. Obviously some TV sites are sponsered, but I don't know of any that have hidden the fact. I do know that, based on some of your previous posts, it is possible for you (or anyone) to just annoy someone so much that they smack the ban-hammer on you. I used to moderate a buffy bulletin board myself years ago, and I don't think I was as liberal there as I expect the mods on AICN to be. -
cinemablend[dot]com, which has many reviews & news from various movies, TV shows & games. It's not run by "Whedonites", Whedonesque just linked a Dollhouse story to their page.
http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Should-Dollhouse-Be-Sent-To-The-Attic-20217.html
Be back later when I have more time to post back ;) -
and all the responses, the only thing I could think of was that all of the replies are on-topic, and a post like MM's would come across as off-topic, since it didn't directly address whether the show should be cancelled or not, but rather went off on a tangent to how to revamp the show. Depends on the mod, I guess, but the fact that none of the responses show any thread drift make me think that's the reason.
-
Oct 06, 2009 3:12:58 PM CDT
Buffywrestling: Perhaps It Is Not Run By Whedonites...And Perhap
by media messiah
You never quite know who is who, and their relation to others...on the net--the reason why the government is starting to require some web sites and their advertisers to disclose promotional ties between each other--including ongoing sponsorships, as paid by said advertisers to those very sites--for what you might assume is a free willed press report, might be just the opposite--something more akin to a paid ad, or a phony debate forum set-up to spawn hype and net traffic--not real debate by posters, the latter group, the posters, can often be deceived if they are not in the loop in respect to such secreted activities? Now, I never said that web site had direct ties with Whedonesque.com...which they may or may not--I said, however, that they are Whedonites--or Whedon-centic--specifcally refering to the article's writer, who seems to have more than just a passing interest in Whedon, and his work--as well as other writers and web sites that may have the same agenda. And certainly one has to wonder if there is a prevailing agenda when an otherwise non-offensive post is pulled without explanation?What I wrote, was specifically designed to address the headline of the story, and the width of its open question--which again, is this: "Should Dollhouse Be Sent To The Attic?" Well, if you ask an open question like that, and make point by point critiques of a show, some good, and some bad, and at some great length, one should expect that those whom a writer asks to respond to said points, and article therein, are going to do just that...and respond, with their own views of the issues you raise--as I did. When they do take such and open invitation to share their ideas--those whom respond, that is, whether they stick closely to points raises, or expound on issues related to the subject matter at hand--there is no reason to delete a post that is sent within that context--unless it is offending by way of cursing, perversions, racism, abusive in tone and intent, or cyber stalking related. I will remind you when you look at that page, if my views were deleted intentionally, for example, there is a very good chance that others were also deleted--perhaps the reason why the other posted respondents have no real variation in content--because anyone who did very, even slightly, to reflect a wider view, was deleted--and that is just wrong? You can't call a person a guest, invite them into your house, and then treat them like a criminal--for answering a question that you opened up a forum to have them address--simply because you did not expect, or appreciate, the answer you received. That is censorship--and small minded.
-
actually addressing the article. Like I said above, maybe your mistake was assuming that your response was on topic. Also possible though, is that the moderator was wrong in deciding your post was off-topic. I accept that.
However, I simply can't agree with your assessment that it was censorship by whedonites. -
...allowed debate to organtically happen, should other posters decide to engaged me, and agreed with me, or decided to disagree, with me--that is what a forum is for, or at least, should be. Those people should have had the opportunity to read my post, and those of others for themselves, as mature thinking adults, and make their own decisions--not have someone think for them? What happened to the free press and fredom of speech? You cannot pretend to be an open forum, or news source, and then do otherwise, as it is suspect--as that makes you something far less than a real reporter/writer--you are controlling thought, ala the dictatorial Blue Sun Corporation and the Alliance from "Firefly"/"Serenity"; by not encouraging the sharing of ideas, but rather, pretending to, and then blocking the free flow of information--and personal truths, even if it is not necessarily, your truth--hurts us all, if that kind of practice is allowed to flourish. Call me Mr. Universe for saying this, but it is just not kosher to do such a thing. Once more, whatever happened to the view..."They Can't Stop The Signal"?Sorry for the typos in my last post above.
-
You and I are having a healthy debate, and that is a good thing! We agree to disagree, but also find some commonalities--and that is what the Internet can be--it can allow the people a voice, but when that voice is muted, it risks such practices...spreading--and your freedom of speech can soon become not worth the computer screen it is writen on. Ctrl=Alt=Delete
-
Well, I don't think any writer has the obligation to engage with anyone who comments on the articles he/she writes. It's one thing to have a forum for feedback/comments on the article but it's another thing to get into a 1on1 with a commentator.
A real world example would be that a newspaper may have a letter column, from which they can decide which letters they receive will see print, and which will be discarded. But it's highly unlikely that a feature writer will get into a 1on1 debate with someone who wrote a letter to the paper. Know what I mean?
And yes, we're having an insult-free convo here, which would probably be as boring as hell to anyone else reading it, but since this story fell off the main page, I think it's reasonably safe to have a civilised convo. -
...much better now. I think it is obviously less of a world crisis than how I put it. It's just that the unfair nature of events in life, whatever they may be, can sometimes cause one pause--instead of choosing to say to one's self..."That's just the way it is, and moving forward." V'Shael, thank you for talking with me--you are a wonderful debater, and a very gifted intellectual. Live long and prosper, my friend!
Readers Talkback
User Login
Top Talkbacks
- Whitney Houston 1963 - 2012 -- 273 total posts 271 posts
- New JUDGE DREDD post production footage pops up -- 92 total posts 92 posts
- AVENGERS enemy revealed as pink boardgame pieces... You might suffer some form of elation... SPOILERS!!! -- 160 total posts 69 posts
- There's a STAR TREK video game that is going to lead into JJ's STAR TREK 2 apparently... -- 151 total posts 63 posts
- Does ‘SNL’ Rhyme With ‘Deschanel’?? Learn Which SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE Vet Hosts After Sexy Zooey!! -- 67 total posts 59 posts
- HANNA's Saoirse Ronan to boss around seven little people -- 60 total posts 57 posts
- To Commemorate The 3D Release Of STAR WARS EPISODE I: THE PHANTOM MENACE, George Lucas Wants You To Know...Greedo Shoots First!! -- 484 total posts 49 posts
- Here's The Red Band Trailer For Drafthouse Films' THE FP! -- 69 total posts 42 posts
- Friday Brings SWEEPS DAY NINE!! Gab Here About Tonight’s FRINGE!! Plus Einstein on TIM, Wiig On PORTLANDIA, MAHER, CLONE, GIFTED, GRIMM, SPARTACUS, SUPERNATURAL, GOLD RUSH And More!! -- 120 total posts 32 posts
- SPACE 2099!! -- 183 total posts 24 posts