Cool News
Merrick Sees A Lotta AVATAR Footage!! + Some High Res Images From AVATAR Hit The Net!! + TITANIC in 3-D?? And More!!
Merrick here...
The folks over at Spoiler TV have some high res images from AVATAR. We've seen many (if not all) of these pics before - although I don't believe they've been made available to us in this size and clarity yet.
SEE THEM HERE!!!
I'm still working to process the AVATAR footage revealed last night at Fantastic Fest. It was quite a bit of material. As I understand the matter, some of this footage had been screened before (AVATAR Day, Comic-Con, etc.) and some of it was being revealed for the first time last night.
Overall impressions?
Fragments of James Horner's score could be heard throughout the footage - it's seems highly melodic and dreamy. In the sequences we saw, the music was more ethereal and understated than 'big'.
The editing, camera movement, and fantastic (razor sharp & headache free) 3-D often create a mesmerizing effect that is pleasantly disorienting. In this regard, the footage triumphed.
The Na'vi....
I was surprised by how well the Thundersmurf's performances worked - i.e. their characterizations are what ultimately pulled me into the film, and very quickly. This is particularly true in regards to Zoe Saldana's 'Neytiri' - we've seen characters similar to her before, but you buy into this one fast.
The Na'vi are believable, fully realized, and diverse characters - not just special effects. This is a commendable triumph, no easy task, and pleasant surprise which is not at all evident from the trailers. Hopefully future trailers will boost-up this aspect of the film - the CGI performances here are often far more impressive than the action surrounding them.
Strangely, I was much less impressed with the Na'vi movements. In a few shots they didn't seem to have a natural range of motion or weight. Producer Jon Landau was on hand to talk about the making of the film (and the state of film making in general) - really fascinating insights I could've listened to all night. At one point, Jon more or less dismissed the importance of photo-realism, saying (paraphrasing here), "Since none of the creatures we see in the film actually exist, who's to say how 'real' they look."
I get where he's coming from, but I would argue that most viewers have an innate sense of whether something FEELS "right" or not. We instinctively sense when the physical laws around us aren't being replicated on screen. And, even though a film may take place on an alien world, viewers NEED to be grounded in some kind of familiar physical reality so that we can better associate with the narrative. I'm not sure if this is making sense?
Lemme try it this way: for me, the issue here isn't "photorealism" as much as - "Does the object I'm looking at feel like it's operating correctly in our physical universe?" "Does X character move like a living being with skin, or like Gumby?" In the footage we saw last night, the Na'vi...and the creatures around them...often felt utterly convincing.
However, there were a number of shots where the Na'vi felt like they were gliding/sliding instead of hitting the ground. Or their movement felt more like very good stop motion puppet than a being that is fluidly alive. These glitches didn't feel like they were character traits - they felt like visual effects that were struggling to find their way over that fallen tree trunk, onto the dinosaur battle bird, or across the screen.
When we've psychologically/emotionally invested in these effects as characters (which AVATAR nails), such imprecision pulls viewers OUT of the immediacy of the narrative...reminds us we're only watching a buncha digital stuff...at which point we have to let ourselves get pulled back into the film...only to be pulled out again...etc. Which...is kinda exhausting.
And that was my overall impression of the footage we saw. There are moments/sequences here that are genuinely beguiling and beautiful - and effects that work as well as (or better than) any effect ever has. But there are also moments (creatures, settings, etc.) that don't feel much more evolved than stuff we saw in the STAR WARS prequels - a little cartoony, lacking a certain grounding, and never quite as immersive as they were probably intended to be. And when much of the film is told using these effects...
On the whole, I'm thinking much of AVATAR will work nicely as a character driven piece. But I also suspect it may end up being a frustrating movie at times - possibly unable to sustain the magic (and I'd even say lyricism) it sometimes conjures so brilliantly. But it's not fair to make such a broad assertion based on roughly one quarter of the film - so don't take anything I'm saying here as any kind of final judgment. Just voicing a suspicion...a guess. And I'd love to be wrong. Its performances will likely save the day. Or, perhaps the film will become bulletproof if audiences adapt a "The real world is over here...and our totally stylized Land of Oz is over here" mentality while viewing it.
Come what may, and despite such trepidations, I really, really do want to see more. Like...tomorrow.
OTHER NOTES OF INTEREST:
** Landau indicated that efforts are underway to convert TITANIC to 3-D; towards this end tests have already been run. T2 and ALIENS were also mentioned as probably/desirable 3-D conversion candidates. Hopefully an official announcement about TITANIC can be made within the coming year.
** Depending on the extent to which AVATAR earns its keep, further adventures in the film's universe/on its planetary setting of Pandora are likely - whether in book form, movie form, or whatever.
** Landau says Jim Cameron already has several scripts for other projects in development and it's not likely he'll take ten years to make his next feature film.
SEE THEM HERE!!!
The Na'vi are believable, fully realized, and diverse characters - not just special effects. This is a commendable triumph, no easy task, and pleasant surprise which is not at all evident from the trailers. Hopefully future trailers will boost-up this aspect of the film - the CGI performances here are often far more impressive than the action surrounding them.
Strangely, I was much less impressed with the Na'vi movements. In a few shots they didn't seem to have a natural range of motion or weight. Producer Jon Landau was on hand to talk about the making of the film (and the state of film making in general) - really fascinating insights I could've listened to all night. At one point, Jon more or less dismissed the importance of photo-realism, saying (paraphrasing here), "Since none of the creatures we see in the film actually exist, who's to say how 'real' they look."
I get where he's coming from, but I would argue that most viewers have an innate sense of whether something FEELS "right" or not. We instinctively sense when the physical laws around us aren't being replicated on screen. And, even though a film may take place on an alien world, viewers NEED to be grounded in some kind of familiar physical reality so that we can better associate with the narrative. I'm not sure if this is making sense?
Lemme try it this way: for me, the issue here isn't "photorealism" as much as - "Does the object I'm looking at feel like it's operating correctly in our physical universe?" "Does X character move like a living being with skin, or like Gumby?" In the footage we saw last night, the Na'vi...and the creatures around them...often felt utterly convincing.
However, there were a number of shots where the Na'vi felt like they were gliding/sliding instead of hitting the ground. Or their movement felt more like very good stop motion puppet than a being that is fluidly alive. These glitches didn't feel like they were character traits - they felt like visual effects that were struggling to find their way over that fallen tree trunk, onto the dinosaur battle bird, or across the screen.
When we've psychologically/emotionally invested in these effects as characters (which AVATAR nails), such imprecision pulls viewers OUT of the immediacy of the narrative...reminds us we're only watching a buncha digital stuff...at which point we have to let ourselves get pulled back into the film...only to be pulled out again...etc. Which...is kinda exhausting.
And that was my overall impression of the footage we saw. There are moments/sequences here that are genuinely beguiling and beautiful - and effects that work as well as (or better than) any effect ever has. But there are also moments (creatures, settings, etc.) that don't feel much more evolved than stuff we saw in the STAR WARS prequels - a little cartoony, lacking a certain grounding, and never quite as immersive as they were probably intended to be. And when much of the film is told using these effects...
On the whole, I'm thinking much of AVATAR will work nicely as a character driven piece. But I also suspect it may end up being a frustrating movie at times - possibly unable to sustain the magic (and I'd even say lyricism) it sometimes conjures so brilliantly. But it's not fair to make such a broad assertion based on roughly one quarter of the film - so don't take anything I'm saying here as any kind of final judgment. Just voicing a suspicion...a guess. And I'd love to be wrong. Its performances will likely save the day. Or, perhaps the film will become bulletproof if audiences adapt a "The real world is over here...and our totally stylized Land of Oz is over here" mentality while viewing it.
Come what may, and despite such trepidations, I really, really do want to see more. Like...tomorrow.
OTHER NOTES OF INTEREST:
** Landau indicated that efforts are underway to convert TITANIC to 3-D; towards this end tests have already been run. T2 and ALIENS were also mentioned as probably/desirable 3-D conversion candidates. Hopefully an official announcement about TITANIC can be made within the coming year.
** Depending on the extent to which AVATAR earns its keep, further adventures in the film's universe/on its planetary setting of Pandora are likely - whether in book form, movie form, or whatever.
** Landau says Jim Cameron already has several scripts for other projects in development and it's not likely he'll take ten years to make his next feature film.
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balls
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for Avatar to fuck my eyes out. Pics look good, just want to have a reasonable expectation going in so that it will not be looked at as a failure.
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simply amazing
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Looks like old movies converted to 3-D is the latest double-dip gimmick that I can't wait to not see. I'm psyched for Avatar, though. Hyped, even.
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Shit looks like nice eye candy but still very much CGI, liked the way the aliens in District 9 fit so well with the live action.Why do these look so glossy and fake.Unless everysingle thing and every person you see was all done on computer this will hardly be eye fucking fantastic.Not even close
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Landau's explanation doesn't suffice. Merrick, do you feel like the story is anything beyond a sci-fi DANCES WITH WOLVES?
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Cameron, you have the money, you have the vision, you have to own your own creation again and make it come full circle with Arnold. Spielberg did INDY 4 and failed, but it was awaited. If you (Cameron) buy the rights to TERMINATOR, it will create a buzz like few other projects you could possibly sign on to next. I hope AVATAR is a HUGE hit, but if it fails, you should make TERMINATOR 5 with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Think of the fun you and Arnie will have. You can de-age him, you can make a future war film with Arnie as a soldier, you can give the fans what they want and give yourself a piece of mind. Most important, you can own your own fucking creation...and make BILLIONS like George Lucas!
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It's a very familiar story in a setting that's also somewhat familiar. If you've played any of STAR WARS: THE FORCE UNLEASHED you've already interacted with environs not dissimilar to Pandora. This seems to be very much about style...and the power of presentation...more than originality.
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Oct 01, 2009 11:12:18 AM CDT
YES! I told ya in the A-Day: "They're not *HUMAN* REALISTIC b/c.
by the_hypnotoad
because they're not "HUMAN", they are *PANDORAN* realistic.
Cameron could make Na'Vis more "HUMAN" IF he wanted to. But Na'vis are EXACTLY like they are described in the '98 scriptment. Talk about obsessive-makig of an idea... even if this idea don't please the fandom -
The aliens have them, how fukcing lame is that.Bastards deserve a good ass kicking at the least if a hefty dose of ethnic cleansing is not on the cards just for that shit alone.Which site was it that mentioned this is going to be like Dances with Wolves in Space?, they/he/she seem to have a good grasp of anyone online as to where this film will likely take us.
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So, maybe 10 years ago this would have been a bigger deal. You know what kills me about the advent of CG since the mid '90s? We have not seen one full-on space battle movie yet. 10 minutes of REVENGE OF THE SITH doesn't cut it. If the original STAR WARS was made today, with a 30 minute space battle... that would have been amazing. Lucas missed the boat. And I'm guessing there are no large-scale, sustained space battles in AVATAR either.
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their aliens on another planet with a different atmosphere and gravity, how are they supposed to move?
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. . . will be hating on this so bad. All 3 of them.
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Those took you out of the film all the time, but still looked cool. This is just the next generation of stop-motion in my opinion.
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I really hope this movie is half as good as the hype, but I still maintain this movie looks like Fern Gully.
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If this 300 million dollar production fails with about 140 million in the U.S., it won't be good for JAMES CAMERON. This movie does not have much awarness which is key to any movies success. What is FOX WAITING FOR???
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1 was absolutely terrible on the whole, but had a few decent pieces you could pull out of the film. I still maintain that Trailer 1b of Episode 1 is one of the best movie trailers of all time. It is a shame the movie isn't nearly as good.Episode 2 is actually somewhat decent. You have to have appropriate expectations. All six Star Wars films are a bit cheesy, have bad dialogue, etc.Episode 3 was pretty good. But people had such a bad taste from the previous two films, that they are reticent to admit it.If Lucas had allowed someone else to script the films, skipped Episode 1 (we don't need to see Anakin as a boy), started with Episode 2, used Episode 3 as the "Empire" of the trilogy, and then extended the story, I think there is room for another film.We could have taken more time and established Boba Fett and Vader hunting the Jedi, etc.
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The thing about those older style effects were that they benefited from their primitive look. Stop-motion was kind of an art form, a style unto itself. And as for younger viewers, they were able to bridge the gap of realism by using their imagination, something CG FX tries to short-circuit by going all photo-realistic. That's the whole goal of CG- to make a seamless universe within the show.
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And by best, I mean mostly mediocre but still watchable. Sith is total bullshit after the first 25 minutes, never builds any momentum or excitement. At least clones has pretty much non-stop action for the last hour, and doesn't focus as much on the terrible anakin storyline.
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I love science fiction (big fucking surprise!) but it's nice to cut through the marketing bullshit ahead of time. George Lucas has stained our souls.
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And I think it works the same way with younger viewers today, "bridging the gap" as you say, with how the CGI looks and how it moves.
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Yeh that usually happens once you have had your childhood raped well and truly, never the same again.
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Good view on the new SW movies.
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As you said, as most people have a very strong innate & subconscious sense of how physical objects, including people, react to physical laws, we know instantly when something isn't right... isn't genuine.
CG technology isn't at the point where we can convincingly replicate people. I find it to be terribly distracting & irritating even in the biggest budget films like LOTR (Gollum), Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc. From what I've seen of Avatar, it will not be a "game-changer" in any way as far has humanoid CGI is concerned.
Still hoping for a great movie, though.
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Make a proper T4 ... forget the piece of shit McShitty put out!
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Its got its flaws, yeah, but its still pretty great to watch. I'm surprised how many pple have done an about face on Ep.I saying it feels most like Star Wars compared to the rest of the prequels.
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just loves employing midgets.
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party on pandora!!
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Everything Ian McDiarmid does is good, save for his weird duel with Mace, with his tongue sticking out like a fucking Thai hooker. The Order 66 sequence was also good, but I felt it deserved a lot more screentime. I would have loved to see some of those Jedi put up more of a fight, watch them put it all together that their Order is at an end. And the conversion of Anakin to Vader was disappointing dramatically. Hayden... poor job, boy. And the rationale always seemed forced- his wife is gonna die, so he kills Jedi? No man, just make the dude a fucking sociopath.
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As if you could poke them and your finger would sink in like 2". Kind of weird, but definitely makes them look alien. I REALLY hope this movie is awesome.
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Motion capture + animators = the most realistic CGI.
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If you ask a regular joe on the street about the anticipation of AVATAR, you might get a "what film" responce. This is the main reason AVATAR might under perform major time at the box-office. Fox is going to want Cameron's next film to be a no-brainer. So why hasn't Fox, Cameron, Landau, Schwarzenegger or Lightstorm Entertainment bought the rights yet to TERMINATOR? Come on Jim, you know you'd love to have a 2 hour Terminator film that resembles the opening of T2. Your fans do!!!
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Where's the dirt? Why are the na'vi so good looking? Guermo Del Toro really beat Cameron to the punch. He's this generations James Cameron and prob even better due to films such as Devil's Advocate and Pans Labyrinth. Meanwhile delivering strong sequels such as Blade II and Hellboy II.
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Devil's Backbone and Pans Labyrinth.
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Ugh, THAT'S a stretch.
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Hobbit will be his Titanic.
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You're a good guy and all, but Del Toro isn't comparable at all to Cameron in my opinion. They're two totally different filmmakers.
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Both started out with horror movies, both write and direct their own projects and both have teeth. I see no problem with making the comparison.
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Terminator = Hellboy
Terminator II = Hellboy II
Aliens = Blade II
The Abyss = Pans Labyrinth
True Lies = (Nothing to compare with really.)
Titanic = The Hobbit
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Look at the incredible scale of hell-boy 2, the effortless mixing of cgi and puppets, and marvel at the fact that this was accomplished for just 80 million. As a screenwriter though, he isn't nearly as good as Cameron.
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Oct 01, 2009 12:07:05 PM CDT
But seriously, Del Toro is more like TIm Burton... but better
by yackbacker
A lot fucking better.
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It looks like WoW characters! 400m for something that could have easily been performed practically!!
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I actually thing as far as dialogue goes, Cameron is pretty awful. In terms of plot, he's better.
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...from the trailer.
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Oct 01, 2009 12:17:48 PM CDT
...you can get away with that sort of thing in stop-motion...
by flickapoo
...because it's one of the charms of the medium. If realistic CG moves wrong it's very off putting...and the more realistic the character the more irritating it is...
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Oct 01, 2009 12:22:03 PM CDT
Merrick did you get the sense Landau was soft-pedaling
by toadkillerdog
The CGI to lower everyone's expectations of the 'photo-realism'? I mean obviously that is exactly what he was trying to do, but did it seem a response to the backlash from the trailer, or do you think he was just trying to lower the bar for other reasons?
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Yeah, I'm nearing age 50, so I don't count on Aint It Cool News...I realize that. But I've been a film geek for the majority of those 50 years, long before the term ever came into being. And I've never gotten into anime or final fantasy stuff. I totally get that people really enjoy that kind of entertainment, but for a few of us others, it's a real big yawn. I know, suck it up old guy, and watch an ancient Dirty Harry movie or something, yeah I hear you. But, I can't help thinking I'm just watching Jar Jar Binks everytime I look at the blue creature. Fine for a cable nap on a Saturday afternoon, but 200+ million bucks spent on this story and concept? Sorry, but give me "Aliens," "Terminator," "Abyss," or "True Lies" James Cameron anyday.
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The first 2 pics make pretty cool desktop patterns.
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All cinemas will be closed by December.
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And hopefully make up the ticketsales I don't want to give anything away but this should resonate with people who play games like Second Life and WoW in fact with anyone who uses the internet
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Perfect.
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And I got that from Yahoo or some other shit. How late, AICN. PIECE OF SHIT, HARRY! PIECE OF SHIT!
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Oct 01, 2009 12:41:58 PM CDT
clearly a bullshit excuse as to why they don't look 'real'
by just pillow talk
while in motion. That's kind of sucky that it's so noticeable, but I'm sure it'll be a decent flick.Though with that kind of budget, it should be way more than decent.
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Still, would we expect anything less from a paragon of insight such as Merrick?As for the assertion that the environments and creatures are only a step above the SW prequels, that's simply a crock of shit. In fact, the environments here are so incredibly detailed and layered that its dazzling that they are entirely CG. Many were so focused on the Na'vi that they took all that incredible jungle phantasmagoria for granted.Also, if I have to hear the Dances with Wolves/ Pocahontas bullshit one more time...What people are forgetting here is that Avatar isn't some nature ramble, but an epic sci fi war movie. There's a lot of Aliens in there. Perhaps the next trailer should really focus on that, because the action in this show is colossal.
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But I do expect an engaging story and great performances. Blow my mind, don't fuck me eyeballs.
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unfortunately.
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Back when she was young, hot and slutty. i love you rose
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Everything I've seen on this - EVERY THING - tells me it's more fantasy than sci-fi and the CGI is just too silly looking. Much too cartoon-like. I love how that idiot tried to push aside the idea of photorealism. He's saying that for damage control because they're nowhere near photorealism (lol). AVATAR is going to be the next WATERWORLD and I certainly won't be supporting it with my dollars.
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Oct 01, 2009 1:31:21 PM CDT
Videogame adaptaions rarely work- Cameron has the solution!
by philosopher
Make a movie that LOOKS exactly like a video game!
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Stop-motion and other practical effects, no matter cheesy or poorly done, still physically exist. Our brains immediately recognize them as real objects existing in our physical world. So while they don't "fool" us, they process in some related way that's still harmonious. Maybe pleasing in the same way that the reduced fidelity of LPs is pleasing.And Yackbacker also had it right with the "artistry" angle. Practical effects have the hand of their creators all over them. CG? No matter how brilliant the digital imagery, it doesn't exist in reality. There's always separation between creator and creation.It's a false argument to criticize practical effects' limitations, because even the best CG isn't really 'fooling' anyone. No special effects really do. It's all about how they affect us emotionally.Personally, I don't think CG will ever solve this. I think the best use of CG will be to subtly flesh out and alter existing reality.A good example of that, to me, is the just-before-full-CG stage of Gollum from the LOTR films. The more I watch those films, the less satisfying the all-CG Gollum is. The little lack of reality grates a little more each time. I think they should have gone with the stage we saw in the transformation scene, just before the final full-CG version--a real human altered with CG. Things like that, and the Mouth of Sauron, are far more effective to me than any 'photorealistic' all-CG creation.
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If you think that "Swine flu" will have any sort of major sociological and economic impact upon ANYTHING, then you truly are a fucking tard. Don't breed. Please. You're too stupid.
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Epic fail.
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Just because there are still crappy CGI effects doesn't mean all kinds of great work isn't slipping by you all the time. Remember how stunned we were to find out that there was never a single Clone Trooper that ever existed in reality? And that movie gets crap for its effects all the time.
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Oct 01, 2009 2:00:06 PM CDT
Movement and weight are problems with most Americans
by klytus_i.m_bored
Fuck, have you been to a Walmart? Just look around and you'll see plenty of people with weight and movement problems. Seriously though - CG? Fuck it.
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Oh wait so when Leo dies at the end those little bubbles will be chasing me in the theater. Sweeeeet.
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This means we can get some other much needing 3-D movies up to date. Like Office Space! About Schmidt! Crash! City Lights! Annie Hall! Waterworld! OHHH MAN Can't wait.
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About Schmidt in realistic 3-D would be a fan boys dream. MMMMMMM BATES!
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Just think how CG has changed the werewolf transformation. Has anyone seen 1 single CG transformation that was anywhere near as amazing as the practical effects work of AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON? Hell no!!! And that movie was made back in 1981... back before email, Windows, eBay, Microsoft, Google, etc.
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That whole giant robot is completely stop-motioned, and it looks great. The fact that it's a real thing that was there on set, instantly makes it believable.
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And there was TONS of Titanic (the movie) shit - posters, dolls, books, etc. I found myself marveling that among the crusty refuse of mummified dry-boxed old ladies there was so much shit licensed from a film by the guy who made fuckin' Terminator. Jesus, it's like Cameron decided that for once he would make a film that his great-grandmother would like. So weird.
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No based was ever said.
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M. Rodriquez and Sigourney are particularly realistic looking.
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That is all.
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Fight powers that be, girlfriend!
How can anyone interested in film or who enjoys movies not at least be curious to see what JC and his team have come up with in it's entirety? Boggles my mind. It's a movie ticket. Not a life sentence. -
I agree with your SW assessment... I would even argue that, like E1, the first 2 acts of E2 are not really necessary either. Certainly if you are basing the core of the narrative around E4 and E5. At least that is MO.
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That's all you took from what merrick said? wow.
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With regards to the Na'vi in the Avatar Day footage. Most prominently in the scene where Neytiri pops in to rescue Jake. It's possible that the Na'vi movement is intentional to be more nimble & cat-like, whereas Jake and the Avatars are more human and grounded in movement.
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Now, muthrfukrs, NOW! Then, Aliens, soon after. (Pretty please.)
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Jesus, she is a babe and a half!
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"AHH, THOSE WERE THE HEADY DAYS OF YESTERYEAR. FAME. GLORY. SMACKING LINDA AROUND."
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"NO TIME LIKE THE PRESENT TO BEGIN PLAGIARIZING MYSELF."
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Cameron: Your eyes have no chance to survive make your time.
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Would you say it's a case of the cgi not being up to scratch or as you say they are cat-like aliens on another planet and gravity? Because I'm hoping it's not as bad as all the superhero movies were you can suddenly notice the transition from say real actor to fully cgi web spinner.
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HOW CAN ANY OF YOU FUCKTARDS GET EXCITED ABOUT THIS? JESUS. IT LOOKS AND FEELS LIKE THAT HORRID RODDENBERRY ABORTION EARTH: FINAL CONFLICT.
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Oct 01, 2009 2:58:54 PM CDT
Must every talkback descend into hand-wringing over Star Wars?
by jimmay
Will we as film geeks ever get over it?
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I am curious when people say they are upset about the hype? For a film of this size (the budget, the scope, the financial risk to the studio, the return of a well admired director) there has been remarkably little hype IMO. Sure Cameron has shot his mouth off about this or that, but that is pretty normal for him (the dude's ego is about the size of the Titanic). And yes there was some footage released at ComicCon and then later on "Avatar Day" but that is about it so far. There has been very little in terms of promotional material, TV ads, radio ads, tie-ins and merchandising. While there has been a lot of fan speculation, that is different than hype because that is not controlled by FOX. So other than the ComicCon/Avatar Day footage released only about a month or 2 ago what is all the "hype" people are bent out of shape over? For this type of studio release you usually can't get away from all the interviews, "making of" TV specials or magazine features etc. For the most part the studio's response has been rather low key and even cautious. However I am sure this is the calm before the storm and I am sure this will turn into a typical studio tent pole with the marketing prowess to back it up... especially if early screenings receive positive critical buzz or word of mouth.
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How much more open the 1.85 shots are (for 3D) than the shots in the 2.35:1 trailer. Looks like its getting masked off for 2D.
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Still no cure for capslock, eh?
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So guys it's official the alien's in this film are supposed to look like floaty CGI, I don't know why you whiners are still complaining.
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DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
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he watched only a quarter of the film and he thinks that's good enough to judge the film??? "This seems to be very much about style...and the power of presentation...more than originality."
yeah? and what's so original about terminator? harlan ellison apparently doesnt think it is. and T2 is basically the same movie. true lies is james bond with comedic twist. and his titanic is the tenth version of the same story. NOTHING IS ORIGINAL! everything borrows from whatever that came before. kubrick himself said so. matrix rips off ghost in the shell and cameron's movies. district 9 = the fly + blood diamonds + blackhawk down. even your beloved starwars OT stole wholesale from kurosawa films. so let's watch avatar in its entirety before passing judgement, shall we?
if you know anything about cameron films at all, you know that his double climaxes is always MASSIVELY COOL! you've seen avatar's climax, merrick? oh yeah... you've only seen the beginning 1/4 of the film. -
Oct 01, 2009 3:14:19 PM CDT
Zemeckis's next project to be a fully CGI Three Stooges pic
by darth_inedible
Welcome to Hell.
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Lesbian Homework Session. That is all.
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I recall two government remote viewers saying that they were given a sealed envelope by a tasking officer and asked to view it using their remote viewing abilities--an extra sensory perception technique, used to view persons, places, or things...by means of non locality--while employing only the mind to do so. They, the remote viewers, said that they saw a pre-industrialized civilization on a planet. The populace were thin humanoids, approximately 9 to 12 feet tall. with blue-ish skin. The beings were walking in, and out, of very tall pyramidal structures. Having written down the descriptions of what they saw, their visions having not made any sense, the remote viewers gave their writings to their tasking officer who was in the next room. The tasker opened-up the sealed envelope that he had the two men remote view, and a shocked look instantly raced across his face, as he previously did not know what the contents of the envelope were--this, a control for the test. He pulled-out a piece of paper and showed it to the two remote viewers. The paper had the following words written on its face: "Mars...one Billion years ago." James Cameron must have heard this very same information I heard. The planet Pandora...is Mars. What does Pandora mean? It alludes to Pandora's Box, obviously...the box, which if opened, releases havoc onto the world. Well, Mars means, God of War--or chaos.James Cameron is trying to tell us something with this movie. It is not just for entertainment or financial profit--their is a missive in this film about our past.
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He isn't saying the movie IS good or bad. I can see 1/4 of THE GODFATHER and know its awesome, likewise I can see 1/4 of an Uwe Boll movie and know it's shit. You're right, you cannot be certain with Cameron but at the same time I knew 1/4 of the way through TITANIC that I wanted to jump off the boat.
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I'm thinking of something along the lines of X-FILES meets INTERVENTION.
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You're half right - James Cameron IS trying to tell us something... "Go see my movie and make me even more wealthy than I already am."
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and i just read that Biehn was meant to be the Stephen Lang character until Cameron decided it would be too close to Aliens with Sigourney there too. Bad call Jim, it was a bad call..
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Because I don't support over-wrought, over-priced crap. Period. End of story. Being a fan of movies doesn't mean you trip over yourself getting out to any movie even remotely associated with a geek genre. It means you pick and choose what you will and won't support in an effort to see more of that type of movie made in the future. DISTRICT 9 - yes!!! AVATAR - no!!!
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Time Magazine reported on goverment remote viewers that work for the CIA...I think back in the 80s or 90s--so this was confirmed by the most respected news magazine, just about, in the world. The CIA confirmed the existence of the program...Project Stargate...or Project Looking Glass I believe it was called, I don't fully recall? Anyway, it was all reported on Coast To Coast Live, the famed late night radio show, hosted by George Noory and Art Bell, both ex-members of the military...and George is an Emmy Award winning Hard News producer, so these guys are well respected, and have serious credentials.
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Aka...Dr. Doom. He is a very interesting character, and considered to be the number 2 U.S. government remote viewer.
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I meant "nonsense" in that I don't think James Cameron has any grander views beyond making a movie. As for the remote viewing nonsense...it's just that, nonsense. Only Christians could be so gullible (lol).
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Oct 01, 2009 3:57:08 PM CDT
Sigourney Weaver looks like OL' MOTHER CHRISTMAS..
by bizarroasimovlives
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But seriously dude if we want to see big sci-fi movies in the future like, Forever War, Halo(blergh), Interstellar, any Iain M Banks adaptation, Or the thousands of other greater sci-fi stories out there, we should at least give this a chance, no?Perfectly fine if some people just don't like this type of thing or they just straight up don't like the character designs, but some peoples reasons seem trite. The CGI looks crap? Naa, maybe not as good as they hoped, but crap? They've seen it all before? With the internet at our fingertips who hasn't.
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PLEASE DO IT JIM!!!!
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merrick said: "But it's not fair to make such a broad assertion based on roughly one quarter of the film - so don't take anything I'm saying here as any kind of final judgment."
and yet he did anyway. made a broad assertion, based of 1/4 of the film. and if you had jumped off the boat 1/4 of the way through titanic you would have missed the spectacular last 1/3. avatar has huge amazing battle scenes. merrick has not seen this. bear that in mind. -
are you saying thats the twist in the movie (because it's not) or that's were Cameron got his idea from? And also them guys who said about that Project Stargate, Project Looking Glass stories also said they had boxes that were like TV's that could see into the future, that there are secret portals to other dimensions/universes all over Earth and our goverments are in cahoots with at least 3 other alien species. Hmmmmmmmn.
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Frankly I think I would enjoy that more than any other franchise in 3D. I can't really explain why either. Just the notion of the tongue coming at me in 3D! SHIIIIIT!
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nobody cares whether you'll see avatar or not. we dont even know who you are.
it's funny to me that some people can already make up their mind about this movie this early. i would at least wait for the reviews first. -
Isn't Ridley toying with 3D for Forever War? So if the ALIEN prequal comes first.. And I agree with Cloudrider about Merrick, Thundersmurfs? Wow Merrick how funny you should be a writer.
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I take Merrick at his word when he gives the disclaimer you quoted. His impressions of the character work and animation are legit based on the amount of footage he's seen. He's only reacting to what he's seen. How is that a broad assertion? He's just saying "here are things that may shake out for the rest of the movie." Frankly, he has every right to give his take. Your overall point is true- you can't be certain without seeing something in its entirely. I do believe Merrick has avoided making bold assertions.
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your right dude about usually being able to judge a movie but I sense that most (all except Harry) of the writers for this site have already made up their mind on this movie sadly.
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I always find such proclamations hilarious. Hilarious, because aside from the fact that no one particularly cares if they see the movie or not, there's no integrity there whatsoever. Half of these tits will be first in line. How the hell do we know who they are, or if they've seen the movie or not?As for the all-knowing Merrick; he knows jack about Avatar - I know a great deal more. Why take a fool's word - if you are truly interested you can find out plenty. That's if you want to do more than mouth off laughable pig ignorant nonsense like nincompoop, or whatever his fucking name is. The most ignorant cock always crows the loudest. Alright, kiddies?
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Actually, what I always find funny is that for all the bitching that geeks love do about Lucas, most of them are still going to race out to be first in line to buy the "Ultimate Star Wars" when its released on Blu-Ray...
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The point of NOT seeing AVATAR is so that we DON'T see these type of overwrought, over-priced films. Personally, I don't find that it's good for the genre or the industry. Bigger is NOT better, as we've all seen time and time again. I'd like to see more emphasis on story and less on big splashy fx. Few movies do both well. Besides this, Cameron and AVATAR are all hype. TITANIC was one of the worst movies I've seen...easily ranking in the bottom 20 with laughably bad acting and a positively ludicrous emphasis on flash and detail over story. AVATAR has a silly emphasis on over-the-top cartoony CGI and overly fantastical elements (completely sacrificing the sci-fi side, IMO). Interesting how I don't jump on the AVATAR hype machine and somehow I'm the villain for wanting a good movie, not just a "big" movie.
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I knew straight away that "Stomp the Yard" would not be my type of movie.
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I've learned to trust my instincts when it comes to movies. If I see a trailer and think the movie looks like crap, 95% of the time it turns out to be crap. After being stung a number of times, I've learned to trust that the trailer is the impression of the movie the director is trying to sell. If I don't like the trailer, chances are I won't like the movie. If it looks tempting, I'll wait and rent it later...but I won't spend my hard-earned money and two hours of my life just to be proven right.
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the sci-fi is there, we just haven't seen much of it yet. Your right about bigger not being better, but if any one can I think Cameron can.Titanic I hated it and Cameron when it came out, watched it the other week and it's not nearly as bad as I once thought. And even Cameron has admited it's a chick flick. Should we like it?
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I think too many people love to bitch and moan over silly things. Seriously, if you're sitting in front of your computer to continually gripe about an imaginary, on-screen, CGI character (like a Navi) and you're going on and on about their imbalanced weight ratio or some utter fucking bullshit like that ("The way the Navi walk doesn't have enough realistic weight relative to the way a real ankle recoils when you take a step!") then you SERIOUSLY need to get out more or (better yet) get laid. So go look at some online porn, yank off, and relief some of that inner stress and chill already.AVATAR looks fun, it looks big in scale, it's from Cameron who has a great track record for delivering fun movies that make you feel like you got your money's worth (which alone makes it a triumph of filmmkaing given how many shitty movies are out there these days), and as Cloudrider noted above Cameron always delivers great one-two punch action endings on his movies that tend to blow the roof off the theater. Which (as Cloudrider likewise noted) no one has seen ANY portion of, yet people are ALREADY rushing to judgment. So, again, I suggest a good yank off session to calm down a bit.Me, I'm looking forward to this. I think it will be fun, the 3D sounds intriguing and like it was done with care, and it seems that by the time AVATAR ends and I come out of the theater I'll be saying "Hey, that was pretty fucking fun and cool."
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prior to that "disclaimer" i quoted: "But I also suspect it may end up being a frustrating movie at times - possibly unable to sustain the magic (and I'd even say lyricism) it sometimes conjures so brilliantly."
and ninpobugei, you're not a villain. you're just clueless geek who thinks he's all that. "wanting a good movie?" you said. and you know avatar is not this "good movie" how? because you've seen it? no??? then you're just taking out of your ass, arent you? all cameron films are overpriced films. that's his specialty. T2 was the most the expensive movie ever made at the time. ditto with true lies and titanic. and all of them are far far from being bad movies. -
as soon as that deep voice over guy comes on when the movie is trying it's hardest to look serious I kinda know what to expect, sometimes even if that guys not on the trailer if I can still hear the voice in my head. Though I will admit I've most likely been wrong afterwards a few times and liked the movie, just can't think of any right now.
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that is all
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I didn't mind it, didn't love it, or hate it, but the next day when the Inception trailer came out everyone was saying it was amazing? I had pretty much the same feeling with both, and their two of my most anticipated movies from two of my favourite directors.Best trailers I've seen recently that I can think of are The Men Who Stare At Goats and Where The Wild Things Are.
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I finally saw the trailer, and it was kinda shit.
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It sounds like you're from the Big Is Better camp. "Hey, it's a sci-fi movie...let's just go see it." Idiot! What's wrong with discussing the nuances of the movie? THAT'S what's going to make or break it and THAT'S what this site is for. It sounds like you need to get laid more than anyone here (and I just got an afternooner from my wife about an hour ago, so I'm doing just fine!).
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The District 9 aliens looked pretty real and no-one knows what the fuck THEY "should" look like.
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You're probably right about AVATAR being fun, but so far (emphasis on "so far") it seems more like NICKTOONS on steroids fun - not that it would be a bad thing per se, just different than what many were expecting.
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with the Navis movement.Dont forget that Pandoras gravity is more intense that that of Earths and that Navi are cat-like aliens.Someone said that this is the intention of Cameron,to make the Navi move and act like human cats in a dangerous,hostile enviroment.Maybe thats why u find in some parts the navi movement a bit weird.but u know what,u r going to watch a 2.5 hour movie,that glitches (if they are glitches) wont ruin your experience at all.
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i watched the D9 trailers,and although the aliens were indeed good,i laughed my ass of with the haters who compared them with the Navi and insisted that their photorealistic cgi is better than the Navi.the haters are totally clueless.
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the only film to make any money in 3d would the star wars films. no one wil go see a rental film in the theater just cuz its now 3d. just watch the how the new 3d toy story releases do. theyll make a bit of money. but redoing films in 3d will not work like they think it will.
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I mean, I really enjoyed the film but they looked like what they were, visual effects.
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It's just my opinion, just like any of this is. And whether or not the District 9 aliens look "real" is beside the point, I guess. They look more real to me than the Navi. They move better, they seem to "weigh" better. Comparing trailer to trailer, which we can all do. Anyway, the point is that just cause something is fantastical doesn't mean it can't have degrees of believability and to many, the Navi don't live up to they hype. District 9 is just a good barometer because it was unheralded and cost a fraction of what Avatar cost. And I won't say there's no haters, but I think when you hear a bunch of hype about a movie's visuals and the trailer falls short of that hype, you're justified in calling it out.
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the prediction of titanic 2D back 13 years ago: no one will go see a film that's been made 10 times before about the story that everyone has known of.
of course, predictions dont work on cameron. but some people still have not learned their lesson. -
or the colour pallet palet or the skin texture and the facial expression,bone structure and the movement of the Navi.in other words,yes u r entitled to your opinion but please dont compare oranges and potatoes.
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the trailer for phantom menace was amazing, and amazing is the opposite of what i felt coming out of that shitty excuse of a film. i was underwhelmed by the trailer of the matrix and fellowship of the ring, but was overwhelmed upon seeing those films.
the trailer for phantom menace showed darth maul wielding his double end lightsaber(the only cool thing about the movie). the trailer for the matrix gave you no idea what the movie is about, and fellowship's showed no sign of balrog. some directors just have the good sense of saving the best just for the theater experience. be glad cameron knows what's good for you. -
I love how everyone has to call someone a "hater" just because they disagree with their overwhelmingly gushing opinion of something. Many of you are so firmly rooted in the AVATAR camp, you'd think you had money riding on its success. It's a movie, not a religious movement, so get over it! Typically, it's often those most in the "for" camp that feel the need to sound off against those reserving judgment or daring to call it as they see it. Also, I'm firmly in the DISTRICT 9 camp...those aliens looked real and interacted with their environment in a much more realistic manner than do the AVATAR aliens in the trailers. And while they didn't look 100% "there", I thought they looked about 95-98% "there". Their images looked realistic (as did their movements and physicality), which is especially surprising since the DISTRICT 9 prawns looked a heck of a lot more alien than the cartoonish AVATAR Na'Vi Thundercats.
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Oct 01, 2009 5:42:24 PM CDT
CLOUDRIDER -- using the word "retardo" is pretty damn retarded.
by ninpobugei
How old are you...like, 13? 15 tops.
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i thought you said you're not going to see avatar based on the trailer, and the fact that it is an overpriced film?
that's passing judgement, not reserving judgement. and not being able to tell the difference is being yes, retardo, or if you prefer, retarded. -
was Davy Jones. Cameron needs to make like 100 characters equal to that or this thing could go south. Still gonna buy a ticket on opening day, though.
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The dynamic duo of douchebaggery
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It's irrelevant how much detail can be appreciated if it doesn't sell the reality of the CGI. In the case of the Navi, I can frame by frame and marvel at the pores on their skin but they still look weightless and unconvincing.
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which would make it an unholy trinity of delusional tosspots..
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Oct 01, 2009 6:03:16 PM CDT
And OF COURSE you judge a movie based on the trailer ...
by thunderbolt ross
... to a degree. That's the point of a trailer. The studio WANTS you to make a judgment. The judgment they want is "That looks worth spending my time and money on". So the converse is fair game too: "That doesn't look like something worth spending my time and money on".
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Oct 01, 2009 6:04:03 PM CDT
Titanic 3D: One question and one question only:
by flurryofchocolateglazedkrispykremedonuts
In the nude drawing scene will Kate Winslet's breasts appear to protrude from the screen?
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RE: "CGI fools us all the time, we just don't realize it"
REVENGE_of_FETT, I have been fooled by CGI quite a few times, and while I generally agree with what you are implying, I noticed the clone troopers' movements standing out as awkward all of the time. Nobody had to tell me that they were fake. In fact, it was one of my first criticisms about Ep2 while driving home from the theater. I kept saying: "why didn't they just film one guy doing different things?" The movements look too robotic to be a real person. IMO, Lucas never put what works best first. Or at least he hadn't since the original trilogy. He should have stayed with the original plan make Jar Jar's head CGI and keep the actor's body. They even filmed him in costume to do this.
Jackson and Del Toro both put each scene and each frame on a case by case basis. I think that this is best because it is the same formula that Lucas and Spielberg used throughout the 70s/80s. Otherwise there wouldn't have been real shark footage mixed in there in Jaws, and the little Jawas in Star Wars might have been stop-motion, instead of little people.
That said, I hope that Cameron pulls this off. The movie is not just a huge financial risk, but a creative one as well. There is a completely new capture method at work here. T2 and Abyss were Cameron dipping his toes in the water. Titanic was a huge splash. This is a swan dive... from a cliff. I don't see how anybody can not pull for this movie to succeed. -
you check who's behind the film. if it says michael bay at the end of the trailer then no matter how cool it may look, i know i will vomit watching the film.
and avatar may look like the worst movie ever made, but with the name james cameron behind it? he's earned my trust with his solid track record. the least i could do is to R-E-S-E-R-VE judgement, not badmouthing it based on a 2 minute trailer. -
Oct 01, 2009 6:22:53 PM CDT
I HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT THIS AND IT'S A DOOZY!!!!!!!
by bringingsexyback
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That would be absolutely awesome. Or at least release the alien movies on blu-ray already.
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ALIENS 1986 was the greatest movie experince I have ever had. bring that mofo on
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if I am not mistaken, the problem that Merrick and others are having with Avatar, has a name, and it is called the Uncanny Valley. Basically it means, that as CG gets better and better, and artist try to depict photo-realism, the closer they get to it, the more our brains fight us accepting it as real. So in effect, out brains nick pick at it, actively looking for what is wrong with the image we are looking at. That is one of the reasons why World of Warcraft with its cartoony became a lot more popular than Everquest 2, which tries to mimic "realistic" looking characters.
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That's a good point, the images are way too clean to be believable. Cameron would have been better off making this entirely a CG animated movie rather than making it live action. The two worlds don't mix well in this case. My hype for this movie has died down quite a bit, but I'll still see it eventually.
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The reason why we recognize it as cartoony, is because it is cartoony! Great CGI - like the District 9 aliens, make is believe. Crappy deadeye CGI like Zemeckis or Finals Fantasy, make us shudder. Jury still out on Avatar, but from what I peeped, it looks like a mixed bag. he hospital scene was great, but throw him into an all cgi world, and it looks like a cartoon. Aint no 'fighting' going on inside my head. It looks like a cartoon. You are just trying to rationalize. That's fine, if that is what floats your boat.
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Those fake clone troopers in Episode 2-3 were easy to spot. Just one more thing that ruined those movies for me. But I do agree with you that CG still has the ability to fool when used properly. Dark Knight did a good job.
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It doesn't matter if they're planet is made of jelly or if they're just making the visuals true to the race they've created. If it doesn't look and feel real, we won't believe it. Humans have a knack for picking up on CG. There's no point arguing about it, as the proof is in the pudding.
That said, District 9's Prawn were entirely believable and had a solid connection with the world around them. Know why? ROTOSCOPING! damned hard work and a lot of man hours! no more of this motion capture laziness. I love James Cameron to bits, but given the budget and time spent on this, we better be blown away by the performances. I truly hope this is good, but I completely agree with everyone else about the visuals. -
ATTACK OF THE FERNGULLY SMURFS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS IS GONNA BREAK TITANICS B.O. FO SHO
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Oct 01, 2009 7:23:52 PM CDT
Ya I hate it when they reveal way too much in the trailer
by spazatronik2000
But the trailers that reveal too little can backfire. I often see a pretty good movie that doesn't perform that well and wonder why the trailers were so 'meh' and didn't include some of the better material from the film. Basically a lot of the people making these trailers are fucking idiots.
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The prawns in D9 were FAR from photorealistic. They WERE impressive for the budget, and D9 was a good, if not great, movie, but they aren't even in the same ballpark as Avaatr's mo-cap work. The fact that some of you monkeys think that the D9 aliens were photoreal proves that many of you know nada about effects work - case in point, that blimp Devin Faraci. Who here has seen actual extended footage from Avatar (not just the trailer)? If you haven't, shut yer pieholes. I have, and I've seen D9. The Na'vi are photo-real; the prawns are not.
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people can bitch and whine all they like..the eyes do not deceive, we base our judgement of what is 'real' in this reality, based on our physics and perception of light and color..to pretend this somehow gives Avatar a free kick is a completely flawed logic, a dribbling fanboy excuse.
Blithering about definitions of 'photoreal' is nothing but a reatrded pissing game. There's believable and not..the prawns were...and every single shot publically released of Avatar are not. If 3D somehow lends a hyperreal dimension to the animation, then that's a completely different argument and point...it makes not one fucking jot of difference if you saw extended shit or not. The eyes DO NOT LIE. -
Avatar's fails to live up to the promise.
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I didn't know about the boxes that you mentioned, and I have reason to believe that there are portals on our planet. As you may know...most of our greatest scientists on Earth, are now saying that parallel dimensions do exist. And yes, I am saying that Cameron got his idea for this movie from the report about the remote viewers. I do know that "Star Wars", for instance, got its name from Native North Americans who named a meteor shower--The Star Wars. George Lucas and Steven Spielberg are said to have inside information about secret government intel involving so called aliens...and the past history of our planet. Now, I figure if "The Powers That Be" got to Lucas and Spielberg in order to condition the populace for this kind of subject matter, then, why wouldn't they do that same thing with James Cameron? I mean, where did he come-up with the idea of very tall humanoids...standing approximately 9 to 12 feet in height, with blue skin...and living on a pre-industrialized planet??? Once you put together the clues, including the fact that Pandora...and Mars...basically suggest "Havoc" in the root meanings of those words, and I believe that the blue humanoids, have cat like eyes? Well, according to Mars researchers like Richard C. Hoagland--they still believe that there is a Face On Mars, one that NASA is masking with low-resolution pictures, one that is mountain sized, with a humanoid face on one side of it, and a feline face on the other? How is it that the remote viewers and their description of ancient Mars...matches that of James Cameron's movie, or should I say, it's the other way around--and also, why does this all match Hoagland's work...almost perfectly? Cameron knows something...and he is using this movie, "Avatar"...to convey it.
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They certainly don't. I know what I saw, no 'excuses' neccessary. The Na'vi simply WORK - in terms of detail, movement, believability within context, and most importantly of all, in terms of emotional expression. Take it or leave it. The trailer is not an accurate gauge because it actually contains pre-viz shots and footage that's only 35% finished - not to mention a myriad of other reasons. Doubters can rage on all they want - they will know full and well the truth come Dec 18th. Of course, there'll no doubt be the pig-headed types who'll deny it.
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Lucas and Spielberg have insider knowledge? Um, bubby, when Star Wars was made, Lucas was barely known. He had one commercial movie under his belt - and it was not based in space! So, why would someone approach him with 'insider' information about 'portals'? Or did they do it after Star Wars which means we should be conditioned to Ewoks? Now if you are saying they did it after the Ewoks, then the shitty prequels damn sure killed any 'conditioning' that might have occurred.
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My lifelong dream is seeing a highly detailed smurfs cartoon with realistic animations. And D9 had a $30 million budget. The prawns are as photorealistic as it gets for that money. More so even.
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Oct 01, 2009 8:33:01 PM CDT
Frankly, I don't care what the promotional material looks like
by bullet3
You've got a movie with a 300 million + budget, with damn near every top fx studio on the planet working on it (when ILM is focused solely on JUST the non-environmental/creature effects you know this is big), directed by one of the most experienced and well-regarded FX directors, I don't care how it looks from the trailers, its at the LEAST worth seeing once. And if its a success, we might finally see a resurgence of good,epic sci-fi movies that has sorely been lacking. As someone before has mentioned, how is it that the only good space-battles to happen since the creation of CG have been on a fucking TV show (battlestar galactica)? Does star-wars somehow have a monopoly on space battles and no-one else is allowed to do them anymore? What gives.
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Yeah, they work as far as that!
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Oct 01, 2009 8:38:28 PM CDT
I think the reason everyone is pissed, including Hitler
by spazatronik2000
is because it looks like this movie is gonna bury the big budget sci fi epic and piss on it's grave. Great, thanks Cameron, now we are guaranteed Spiderman 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9.
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I have the scriptment to Avatar and there is nothing to suggest Mars as a metaphor or anything elseIf you want the twist I'll give it to you, but this movie should be seen as The Wizard of Oz for the gamer generationAs for that Speilberg and Lucas shite, wow...just wow. I've been in to all this conspiracy bullshit since I could read, and thats all most of them are, a good read sadly.I would type more in response but I fear your either testing your storytelling, fishing, or mad. Goodnight
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But can it sustain it? Will Joe and Jane Notgeek come to see a kick ass animated movie about blue cats? I have my doubts. But time will tell
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Oct 01, 2009 8:58:19 PM CDT
"you know nada about effects work" - worst argument ever?
by thunderbolt ross
You don't HAVE to know fuck-all about effects work to either A) Think an effect works or B) think an effect does not work. If you have to be "in the know" to buy into CGI, then it aint working. "It looks real" means it looks real, not that it looks like the people behind it are experts and put a lot of time and effort into it. Calling people "doubters", is silly too now that I think about it. I don't "doubt" that it works, I know that it doesn't. Because I saw it, and it didn't.
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Well it's not too bad. It was just one instance where I noticed that, and these were all out of context clips. Perhaps the Na'vi movement is more established before we get to that scene. During the rest of the footage everything moved pretty damn well. I'm not quite sure how to explain it, but when watching the movements of new alien creatures, they do not move in ways you expect. Very different, but the animation is overall very solid and deliberate. Cameron has mentioned that he tried getting the Na'vi actors to talk and move differently in ways accustomed to a more alien race. I wouldn't worry too much about it. It is probable that there might be slip ups here and there, hell nobody's perfect. But 99% of the time the Avatar Day footage had excellent animation/mo-cap!
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The amount of detail that is given to the Navi' is phenomenal. They almost look like sparkling costumes then a bunch of CGI characters. The texture that is given to their faces and skin is mind boggling real, and it makes "District 9" look underwhelming at best. "District 9" was dissapointing in other areas, but the CGI Aliens didn't fit with the scenario and they ended up standing out like a bunch of sore thumbs. Plus, they had too much detail. I think Cameron realizes that less is more when it comes to designing CGI characters.
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This site's constant comments about eyeball fucking already left me underwhelmed after seeing the footage. I don't think it looks like a terrible movie. I just don't think it's going to be the groundbreaking flick some are suggesting.
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I agree that the District 9 aliens seem more natural and realistic, but the fact of the matter is that Avatar has better/more impressive CG, because its trying to accomplish something more difficult. Getting CG skin to look right (especially with a strange blue color), is infinitely more difficult than the hard-shelled look of the D-9 aliens. All sorts of light-diffusion, skin discoloration, wrinkle effects you have to worry about. Plus they're blue, which immediately seems strange to the human mind. So I would say that Avatar is much more impressive by virtue of being way more ambitious and actually pushing the technology forward. And if the final result isn't quite as convincing in the end, well, they've paved the way for others to take it one step further and nail it down perfectly.
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...Gollum still retains his title of Champion of the Valley of the Uncanny.
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That argument just does not wash. D9 had a superior and more believable look. It was very close to photo-realism. The ambition of Cameron is nice, but if the end results are not believably realized, then they simply are not as good as D9. The Last Starfighter was the first heavily CGI sfx movie, but does that mean because it was the pioneer that we are supposed to elevate it's effects over superior ones? Judgement still needs to be withheld on Avatar, but if the animators are the only ones who can see the revolution, it will miss the intended mark.
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Confuse PS3 games with reality and probably never took pictures with anything else than a cell phone. Go out in real nature with a decent camera, carefully observe your surroundings, take snapshots with different settings and see what real looks like. A good special effect 1-Passes incognito or 2-Leaves you doubting and asking "How they do that?"
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D9's director has a background in effects and designed the prawns in a way that photorealism could be achieved. It's too bad Cameron designed his aliens in a way Sunday morning cartoons could be invoked.
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Raise your hands please.
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Oct 01, 2009 10:52:49 PM CDT
Will you babies stop the whining, at least the ones who are bitc
by corplhicks
This movie looks amazing. The scenery, the motion of the creatures. Come on will you. No one at this point is going to say that the CG living beings in this movie are supposed to be 100% indistinguishable from a live actor-- they are getting reasonably close and making it look good and that's great. Gollum looked great and you know it and that was several years ago.
Cameron cares deeply for content, story, intensity, and environment. Every single movie he has made proves this.
This will be at least a "must see once" movie. Then you can decide if it's good, in your opinion. -
Then again, never seen a real star destroyer either. But still I find that the CG star destroyers often look more fake than the original ones.
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http://www.latinoreview.com/news/did-you-like-kill-bill-volumes-1-2-you-did-the-get-ready-for-kill-bill-vol-3-8152
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and im happy. (bet Beatrice's kid is coming after her.)
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forgot this gem by trannyformers. enjoy!:
Funny as hell... Jim Cameron "King of the World" managed to troll the entire internet and brainwash thousands of retards.
First it's the "game-changing photo-real CGI" then it's "well you have to see it in IMAX 3-D" now it's changed again to " The story is all that matters"....LMAO
THUNDERSMURFS HOOOOOO!
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He hasn't weighed in on the new pics yet.
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what is the crack pipe sucking up there i'm seeing?
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other threads that said the exact same shit, hanks.
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C'mon, someone tell me what Cameron's Planet Of The Apes was about?
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It was brilliant, really great (and scary) examination of humans, how we think etc, with some great action and amazing CGI.
For me District 9 set a bar, the aliens were realistic enough, that I wasn't distracted or thinking are the photo-realistic. And with the budget it had, it was an amazing effort.
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Lucas and Spielberg were very close at the time, before "Star Wars"--and, what was Spielberg doing on, or around, that time? He was working on, guess what(?), the script to "Close Encounters of The Third Kind". Just so you know, Spielberg stated that when he was asked to come to the White House to screen E.T. for Ronald Reagan...Reagan told him after the movie: "You don't know how close you came to the truth!" Well, Reagan, perhaps not by coincidence, started calling the weapons in space program...The Star Wars Program, also known as SDI.
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...have a long history of condtioning audiences via science fiction films regarding real life events...and or possible coming events, like first contact, at least, with modern humans and aliens. The author of 2001...said that Mars has "Large life" on it, shortly before his death. 2001, specifically, the book, and to some aspect, the movie, carried details about ancient alien life in our solar system--and this was not meant as fiction, rather fiction was used as a screen to tell the story. The same is true of "Battlestar Galactica" which s based partly on Mormon beliefs...as well as Exodus, in the Bible. Also Brian De Palma did the film "Mission To Mars" based upon information from his scientist brother who past away. A movie that features the Face On Mars, BTW. The coordinates, 19.5 are used in ths film, which allude to so-called sacred coordinates that Richard C. Hoagland...a famed Mars researcher always points to. It seems that NASA launches its space mission using those coordnates...and specific celestial anomalies happen at 19.5 degrees, not just on this planet, but on every planet in the solars system.And you'll recall Carl Sagan's "Contact"...which was done with the help of Lucas mentor Francis Ford Coppola. It's very interesting that the same names, with deep connections with each other keep popping up when it comes to this subject matter? BTW, there are many who say that Sagan...who was a bud of Richard C. Hoagland, was writing about some truth...in terms of that story. Carl Sagan was said to be involved in a tragic accident involving Area 51 workers, at the secret base, who got cancer. Sagan died from that disease, supposedly as a side-effect of his exposure. And just so you know, "60 Minutes" reported on the accident, but the Clinton and Bush admnistrations used federal judges to block Area 51 workers from testifying about the case...each time, citing their belief that the National Security of the United States would be greatly harmed...as their reason, and hence, the entire case was blocked---and the name of the base, at least, in court records...it is only known as a secret base, however the workers say that it is in fact, Area 51. This is all factual information, again as reported by 60 Minutes, and you guys can do a quick net search to check, and confirm, what I have written about the Area 51 workers, their case, and allegations that Sagan was involved in the accident that poisoned them, as well as himself...which, once again, led to his death.
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and it's all been said really, but Merrick put it in perfect wording. They look real on stills but not when moving. But you know what, screw it. After Inglorious Basterds I’m satisfied for a while. If this turns out to be everything it claims to be, great. If not, I won’t lose any sleep
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No evidence to support it at all. Ever. And if you had the first idea about it you would know that the idea you gave as an example was like one out of many they would have come up with in that session. It's cold reading is all it is. Hits are used as so called proof and many more misses are dismissed. It's crackpot nonsense, man.
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and all this spielberg and lucas inside info shit. Yes Regan did say that. This the goverment use so called remote viewers. But the only reason the US started all that research in the first place was because of a propaganda film made by the USSR I believe. It was fake and the US were duped into thinking they could do it. It was of this woman moving a compass with her mind. She of course had a magnet in her bra. There was a show about it on UK tv the other week by Derren Brown "English magician, illusionist, mentalist and sceptic". He even got in a top remote viewer from the US government and showed just what a fucking sham it all is. I think...ah fuck it. I can't be bothered. You are nuts hehe.
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And then you bash me? Whether you believe that I am telling the truth, or am crazy, or not, you can at least admit that I have integrity...as far as the fact that I am conveying information from solid sources like 60 Minutes and Time Magazine.
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The detailis in those ultra high quality pics is amazing. The texturing and especially the hair looks very nice. And I would say, that they look real enough. But the thing is they don't look alive. The Na'vi got a very doll like aura in them.
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Its being released into a world where moronic pap like Star Trek is one of the most popular films of the year.
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is with the artistic visualization of the Navi,and not with the technical aspect of it.You see the cockroachs of D9 as more 'real' from the point of your personal aesthetics and perception.Thats respected,but it has nothing to do with the photorealism of their cgiu design.
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not that the haters are going to listen.oh well.
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On top of that re District 9, we have CGI aliens in a very real human environment. I strongly believe the background, the environment makes a huge difference on how we view this.
The aliens in District 9, human environment, Davy Jones POTC - human environment, Same with Golumn in LOTR (for the most part), compared to say the alien world of the Gungans in Naboo or the what we have seen from Avatar so far. -
Overall Merrick was very positive and wants to see the movie TOMORROW.
So stop whining haters, this is a POSITIVE review!
AVATAR FUCKING OUR EYEBALLS AND EARS IN DECEMBER 2009 -
Yes I can agree he said it. That's a fact. But he's a mad old coot in my opinion. Conveying information is not integrity. You are just repeating what someone else said. Doesn't make it so. You believe all that stuff. That's fine. But you talking about it as if it's fact and have hardly done much research to get a real balanced view. You shouldn't believe all you read and especially not from the american media. I wouldn't call 60 minutes and Time Magazine "solid sources". All the real facts point to it being all very ridiculous. Until there is evidence to the contrary, my feelings on the subject remain the same I'm afraid.
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James. Cameron. A talented filmmaker who actually knows what he's doing. As opposed to Bay, Abrams, McG, Ratner, Sommers, Singer and all the other idiots who have been foisting endless sequels, remakes, reboots, prequels and shitty comic book movies on us for the past 10 years.
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Don't be a moron. There's plenty of them going around here already.
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If you really want both sides of the debate I can recommend the work of James Randy as a starting point. He has had a 1 million dolar challenge since 1964 (started at 1000 and has reached the 1 million mark) to anyone who can prove any of the stuff you are talking about. Guess what? "So far, no one has ever performed the paranormal ability they claimed to have.". Now does this mean it's not possible?. No. It means so far nobody, not one person living or dead has been able to prove it...ever.
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put your head in the box..
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That movie reveals the answers behind alien abduction. Put it on your netflix list.
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my thoughts so far for what its worth..the aircraft look like they are part of a really snazzy video game, the pics with people in them look like what would happen if james cameron made a sci fi tv show and the navi give me a really horrible jar jar vibe.. thats the bit i'm most reluctant about. Anyway thats my speculation so far. I'm sure the story (the bit that matters the most) is going to be brilliant. Thats bit i've got the most trust with. ie I trust james camerons story telling abilities which is the main reason why I can't wait for this film.
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YOU FUCKING NONCES WOULD THINK THAT JAMES CAMERON'S POO IS WORTHY OF BRONZING. THAT TRAILER AND EVERY IMAGE SO FAR FROM THIS FILM LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF FERN GULLY.
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...BUT SHE UNDERSTOOD THE BACK OF MY HAND."
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THAT WAY I WON'T HAVE TO SUFFER WHEN YOU FAGGOTS START HAILING IT AS A SCIFI MASTERPIECE UPON RELEASE.
OH. SOME OF YOU GIRLS ARE DOING THAT NOW.
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NOT AS MUCH OF A LONGSHOT AS ONE MIGHT THINK.
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Because the ending of the Abyss is easily top 3 best endings ever
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Quick O/T post but figure as your in full on crazy mode tonight may aswell give it a whirl..... Dollhouse and the blatant MKUltra symbology running through that show is what really sits unwell with me.Do you find the same is true for you?When exactly is it you think Wheeeedon finally sold his soul.
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I thought at least one "Avatar Day" sequence was an instant classic. And it's JAMES CAMERON, man! This dude has delivered above and beyond expectation every single time in his career as a mainstream director (and don't throw the TITANIC hate on me, please). I really think we'll enjoy the fuck out of this whatever it turns out to be. B.T.W. @TAINTLICK - Star Trek '09 was the best fucking movie of the year. If you disagree, you've earned your screen name. Holla.
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...groundbreaking, will make that call when see it on the big screen, think it will perform solidly but will not have the crossover appeal of say LOTR or Star Wars -my girlfriend came to the cinema to watch those with me and enjoyed- she has no interest in this as it looks "weird" (her words not mine) but anyway fingers crossed. Oh can anyone confirm how much this movie actually cost to produce, release and market? I've heard $300 million!!!!
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and thats a fact
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*edit*
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You know what killed Star Trek to begin with? The fans. Paramount catered to these poonless, Proactiv-poster children for years with these "latex headpiece of the week alien deals with personal demons" storylines that all but scared the fuck out of anyone looking to jump on the train. Excitement is the ideal end product of scientific exploration - not fear or forced psychoanalysis. Do some push-ups, forget about Jean Luc Picard, and move out of your mother's basement.
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I anxiously await Aliens in 3-D.
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how insane it would be if the studios actually listend to exactly what fandom wants. Considering how far up its own ass fandom is these days, and how contradictory it is. All we would get are endless nostagia blowjobs so that every toy or video game they played with as kids must be made into films, or not very good films to begin with (Tron) which are viewed now through the magic of nostalgia, must now get sequals etc...
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Will reinvent the way movies are experienced Epic masterpiece mind-blowing Photo-realJaw-dropping CGI unlike anything you have seen before Like dreaming with your eyes open Revolutionary Cameron's Lawrence of Arabia Game-changer This generation's Stars Wars Truly amazing Prepare to be blown away Breathtaking Like a highly addictive drug that had left my mind yearning for more Can't stop dreaming about it This movie had activated parts of my brain that were previously untouched by conventional, two-dimensional films
AWESOME THUNDERSMURFS! -
... well said. I'd taken note of your posts at times, and I think you're an intelligent dude. Cheers from New Orleans.
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Remember when we were hyped to see THAT? Shouldnt that set the example of not judging shit till we see it? Yeaaaaaa....But this AICN. And you are who you are.......talkbackers.
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nothing in common with what passes as fandom anymore. Im just constantly amazed at the sheer level of bile and venom so many so called sci fi action fans are towards this film and Cameron, as if he has earned no benefit of the doubt or anything with his past films. But then Fandom even delights in trashing widely regarded and repspected genre films now *shrugs*...So I really dont identify with geeks anymore, and I truly feel they desreve their constant remakes (reake Jaws I say), Reboots, prequals (let Ridly fuck up all the mystery with his alien prequal because fando wants everything over-explained), endless comic book adaptations, and shit like Barbie the movie, Facebook the movie etc....Hopefully there are enough sci-fi action fans that are into giving something new a chance....
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not know this site? Judging films (good or bad) before seeing them, hell,.. KNOWING wether a film will be good or bad (and how well it will do at the b.o) is the speciality of aicn talkbackers....
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Yeah, I'm a regular, lol. I'm usually know for LOST. We even have the season 5 finale going still! But yeah, not sure what to make of Avatar. I'll judge on my own, like I did with Zombieland. And that was actually good.
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... the fact is it's easier to be a hater than to submit a thoughtful critique or even express enthusiasm over something, these days. I honestly don't know where a lot of these kids that post on this site get their notions from. I try not to take it seriously, but sometimes I can't help myself from spitting the venom of reason on them.
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No attention span or patience. I showed my 4 year old nephew Donner's original Superman and he was glued. I am seriously trying to show him what real filmaking and true storys were before this bullshit digital age of fabrication storytelling. (*cough* *fuck* Michael Bay)
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just changed in a really bad way, it does nt seem to be about loving the genre any more, standing up for it, or wanting new ideas, attempts at different things etc..its all just about who can shout the loudest, have the most contrarion opinion, or trash something the most, especially if its from a very successful director (the you know he DESERVES to fail). And its all about opinion now, Im constantly amazed at the "dont let actual fact get in the way of what I want to believe" attitude you encounter all the time now. You have to laugh at all thses morons claiming Cameron stole from Delgo and Battle for Terra while at the same time they are completely unaware that Cameron wrote the script for AVatar in 1995 (years before either of those two pos where even twinkles in their creators eyes), and it was on the net for over a fucking decade, so anyone can have ripped off any of the ideas/imagery from Avatar. But dont tell them this because it only gets in te way of what they want to believe. But then these same idiots think Cameron stole the name AVatar from the airbender cartoon series......
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Im picking him up for school today. On TCM, its a Groucho Marx marathon due to his birth, but I own their movies and I wanna see how he reacts to the stateroom scene in Night at the Opera.
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so called geek/genre fan sites are nt much better these days. I dont know who is worse now, the ADD kids of today, or the fanboys with their sense of entitlement, and nostalgia googles...
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Now I'm not actually saying your wrong. I've read all the stuff your talking about. And I would love to believe them, and I always try to be open minded. I know about the Sagan story apparently when the first men went into space there was a monolith like from 2001 floating above earth, it was brought down to Area 51 or somewhere, Sagan and others tried to decipher it and got cancer from the radiation. Hmmmn. Think about that, picture this a supposedly briiliant team of scientists were stupid enough to go near this monolith without protection. I know it could have emitted some pulse ray bull that got through their suits but I don't recall that from the story. Another thing, why would you let a president who could only be in power for a few years know all your top state secrets and get him to try condition us with the entertainment industry. That dosen't make sense, didn't Carter or some other president say they asked about were all their ufos where and was told he is on a need to know basis. Again the guy who came up with most of this shit Bob Lazar has been proven a liar about his supposed PhDs and other quallifications. Now as I say I've been reading this shit like this from Von Daniken and the ilk since I was a kid. Some great ideas and I believe/remain open to some, (basiclly there MAY have been a lost civilization on our planet or Mars, maybe both and maybe aliens were/helped the appleseed of life on earth, yea like Mission to Mars) but most are just fantastical and too wishfull I fear. The only guy who seems to use science as a basis for these ancient civilization thories is Graham Hancock, and he remains a good barometer for this stuff in my opinion. But the best example I can think of you been wrong about the entertainment industry side is in the stories I've read about supposed real life alien contact they describe the 3-4 alien species. The only ones I have ever seen on film are "The Grays" and the taller type "Grays". I've never seen them describe meeting Gungans, Klingons, Vulcans, Tenctonese, Na'vi, Ewoks or any movie like alien. Its always the same few Grays, and Reptoids type.As I said I have the scriptment to Avatar if you want the twist about Pandora I'll give you it, but there is nothing to suggest Mars, Pandoras is in the Alpha Centuri system thats about as real as it gets. Again I hope your not just fishing. I've just woke up, with a hangover, so excuse the bad gramma
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thats the longest piece of shit I written since I was in collage. southafricanguy hey dude I noticed you were on Marketsaw too a while back I think, what do you think of that site? I'd just like to say don't actually read Marketsaw3d. Just look at the new updates they have, that site nearly makes me want to hate AVATAR. They are the ones who are adamant and are sticking with all the "game changing" "photorealism" hyperbole stuff. That Jim writes like a stalker or something. The whole site feels creepy and is basiclly pimps ANY 3d movie, even Gforce was supposedly great according to them. Their great for updates, pics wise but just don't read the stories with them, I feel like I walked in an ass kissing contest.
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Yeah, I understand. It's just disappointing.
And as far as fanboys, understand the movie making bussiness before you bash anything. Things are pitched one way and come out a different way in the ned. If you dont like a movie about your childhood, do what I do, go back to the source and enjoy it for what it was/is to you.
It does suck to see something you love interpreted in a bad way...but hell, make something of it. I'm in film school and so help me god, my ultimate goal is to one day do the SW prequels better.
Longshot? Maybe. But after Psycho was deemed a classic, who wouldve thought they'd remake THAT? -
Point out where i'm going wrong. As far as I can see i've made nothing but sane and rational posts about Avatar so far. Tell me why i'm a "douchebag". Looking forward to your reasoning.
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on marketsaw, as for what I think? Its a good site for updates and info (and lets be honest you have to find good sites for that as aicn stopped being up to date or getting cool news quite some time ago now), but yes Jim Dory does go overboard, and does say some ridiculous things. But then whats the alternative? Someone like that sell out hack Devin Farci? With all his bitter spite and hypocriscy?
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becuase is at the end of the day just a huge sci-fi geek/fan. I can relate to his dissapointment at how so called fandom has been carrying on with everything related to Avatar lately....
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Too god damn CARTOONY. Yanks me out of it immediately.
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your time debating him dude, any of us that use reason, logic, and fact to make our arguments are douches (its the result of the Fox news style of arguing). Just let it go and dont bother....
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Hey man, long time. Hows things? You're right. Best to ignore it. There is no reasoning with some people I guess.
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sorry dude, someone had a southafrican related name I think, but yea it's good for the pics updates and such and much better than that fat fuck Farci, I was hoping AICN would be my Avatar hub but seems only Harry is liking what he's seen so far, seems like others simply just don't want to like it for some reason, and the Avatar TB's sometimes make me deppressed at people. I think what really pissed me of at Marketsaw was when Jim posted his thoughts on a 5 min clip someone had filmed for him at ComicCon, as "he couldn't be there in person" and then he went on to say something like "we shouldn't see it in this state wait for Avatar Day," (which was a bit of a bust). That just left a bad taste in my mouth, "what gave him the right" type of thing.
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see I buy your reason. Thats a legit reason for not anticipating this movie. But it's all the, CGI being crap, Ferngully, Delgo, Dances With Wolves, excuses I dismiss as pedantic.
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...LINDA AND BEAT HER SENSELESS AGAIN. IT WON'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT I'VE MADE A HORRID FUCKING MOVIE WITH GAY BLUE ELVES, BUT AT LEAST IT'LL MAKE ME FEEL BETTER."
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WOW. THE HORROR OF IT ALL.
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IT'S THAT THE TRAILER AND STILLS SO FAR FROM AVATURD LOOK LIKE COMPLETE ASS.
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
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kinda depressed about the whole thing too, actually just very dissapointed in Fandom to be honest. But then you have to remind yourself that its the mainstream that Cameron really has to aim this at, lets remember that fandom actually only accounts for a small percentage of filmgoers, and fandom creamed its pants over Watchmen, but could nt sustain it at the b.o, and lets not get started on Sakes on a plane (a film made for the internet crowd).
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talkbacks are not reality, in fact they are far from it. Remember all the fanboys saying Bay raped Transformers? Does anyone else outside of film geek sites think that or care? And ultimatly we are going to have to wait and see what the average movie goers reaction to this film will be, as the simple reality is that you cant predict these things....No-one actually knows what will connect with the zeitgeist or not....
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I think there's a lot of fandom out there that is really excited about Avatar. It's just the 10% on here that shout at the top of their lungs that is giving the film a bad image. I still believe we'll be laughing our heads off at them come December.
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i dont really come here all that much anymore, as I say im really not into fandom anymore. Anyway....how are things in your neck of the woods? Have you seen that cool Avatar game demo? Gives a fairly cool idea of the type of action we may see...
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I wasn't looking forward to the Watchmen, movie many geeks in my work where, and never thought that much of the GN, and I thought the movie was mediocre at best, but I did not Troll the Watchman TB's with my negative views like many children seem to do on this site.
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No I didn't look at it, i'm trying to stay as fresh as possible for the film. I also didn't want to build up my hopes for the action sequences based on scenes from the game. That's cool you were impressed though. Hope you'll be sticking around the Avatar talkbacks, will be cool to compare notes about the film come December.
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will have the last laugh. He is a smart guy, and he has always been forward thinking. He has always pulled off the impossible at the b.o, so lets see what happens....
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Most people I know like them movies, theres a handfull of greasy scruffs in work who still spit when it's mentioned. As for most of us it's just another eye rolling dissapointing movie. Not a rape of our childhood.
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exactly, I dont care if someone is unimpressed/unexcited/uninterested in Avatar, good for you, but then what the hell are you doing here posting multiple times about something you already know you dont like or does nt interest you? Like you I was nt interested in Watchmen (also finally saw it on dvd, and was really confused as to what all the fuss was) but I never posted once on the talkbacks and never wasted my time telling people that liked it that it sucked.
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overblown and out of whack with reality. No-one raped their chilhood because they made a shitty movie, nevermind what does it say about your childhood that some toys where the most impotant part of it?
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Most of the fanboys are bitching and moaning about this movie. And it is getting tiring. But really when you look at it Cameron wasn't too far from the truth. Sure he overblew it but in the end this really is an evolution AND revolution. Look at all these movies (future and past) being converted to 3D. Which Jim Cameron basically has a huge part in. There lies the revolution. The evolution is going from Gollum to this. HUGE difference. And we've seen from Gollum that CG characters DON'T PULL YOU OUT OF THE FUCKING STORY. In fact I was completely engaged in the story when Gollum's scenes came in. Looking at the Navi'i they are even more technically impressive (look at the dude's skin in the second pic, holy shit) and as long as their voices aren't irritating or if the acting isn't atrocious I'll love this film. James knows his action, and this will have alot of it. Also one thing I haven't mentioned yet, a point that TurdontheRun hit right on the head, was that we are not paying attention to the environment in this film. We are so focused on the Navi'i that we forgot how fucking amazing the CG backgrounds are. Those trees and floating rocks look absolutely real. Seriously look at Shit Wars Episode 3 and then look at this. HUGE difference in green-screen enviros.
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out. I have to compare notes with you, cloudrider, Turd, Rougeleader66, newdirector, lightstormer etc....you guys are all far and away the most intelligent and rational conversations I can have on these talkbacks..
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nny is so many here dont get that Avatar is already influential, and it has nt even come out yet. Spielberg and Jackson are making Tintin based on what they saw of Avatar, useing the exact same tech that Cameron developd. Ridly Scott is doing scifi again (which he said he never would as it had all been done) based on what he has seen of Avatar, Alfonso Cuaron wants to make a small drama in 3D, all these classica are going to be converted into 3D, etc...the list goes on. Everyone is focusing on the cgi, and seems to have missed the point that its the production methods and means of displaying the film that are revolutionary...
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amazing. The cgi and mo-cap is evolutinary.
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What up? And yes I agreed. Cracked up-Chris Benoit Smurfs. Hopefully it'll be good. I want it to be. I went to see Aliens all by myself when I was 11 in the Bronx, scared the shit out of myself and I've been a Cameron fan ever since. (well, besides sappy Titanic.)
Not that I hate the flick, but it's not one of my faves. -
Hope Lightstormer shows up too...
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d dude, why? Why do we need more StarWars? What have nt we seen now? Cant we move onto some new ideas/universes etc....I love SW btw, but I want new epic sci-fi not pigeon holed by years of continuty and pre-establshed conventions...
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what excites me is that by the end, Cameron has set up an epic sci-fi universe that has the potential to go anywhere with story or ideas....without needing to look back and over-explain everything, and fill in every little hole etc...
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What up? Yeah I'm going to see this. I love Cameron and the 3-D spectacle is not to be missed, but I'm really finding it hard to look at the Navi without thinking cartoons rather than realistic living beings. If I want anime, I'll watch anime.
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as anyone read this by Iain M Banks. One of my most recent scifi reads after a hiatus on the genre, and I think with a little editing that it could make an amazing movie. Still not finished it, but so far it's had 2 of what could be the best space battles I have ever read and some of the alien species are near unimaginably and inventive. If Avatar is a bust I don't think we will get movies like this for a while if ever again. And southafricanguy I think thats were alot of fans have been misinformed, I always saw the "game changing" comments related to Avatar as being the mo-cap techniques and general movie making.
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seem to have completely missed the point. And thats the other thing which you point out so well, if a huge attempt like this at original epic sci-fi fails, we can pretty much forget about any more attepmts, at least for a long time. And then we really will have fuckall to look forward to but endless remakes/reboots/sequals/prequals etc...This is the only big movie this entire year taking a big chance in many areas. Its success could really lead to a lot of other cool original sci-fi getting made. Hollywood may actually grow a little more balls and take some chances again...
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yea I hope so to, I think this movie will be closely watched by the suits, and even though I wasn't fussed about Watchmen I still wished it luck so we could at least get better bigger adaptations of similar work in the future.
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There's a lot of bitching about CG here. Specifically about how we can always spot CG. Well, did you know that Dark Knight had over 1000 shots with digital FX? Whereas the director brags about a little over 100 shots. Why? Because the geek community wants to believe it's all real and it makes him look like a hero. Unfortunately, all the poor slobs who work in the CG sweatshops getting beaten up to do invisible FX work under dire pressure get no credit. None. Zip. I can go through dozens of recent movies with uber-geeks and challenge them to spot the work - hard-core CG FX that are totally seamless.
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I never wish genre efforts to fail and be bad, Dont some of the people here get thats its bad for genre filmaking overall if it fails, if any genre filmaking fails? Unless of course its so bad that it deserves it.
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ing from dude, as you say, some geeks think that shit makes a director a hero, because they thing cgi=bad, and if its filmed live action then its automatically better....
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Ha! I think I'm starting to prefer MediaMessiahs view of govement controlled entertainment conditioning. Makes more sense as to why some people are so irrational.
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Yes! My life is now complete!
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I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert, but I know what I like.
Has anyone seen these ufo vids on youtube http://tinyurl.com/yj92gls They seem to have fooled alot of people for a few minutes at least until you realise if this was real you would have heard about it by now. And this was done by some guy (manbird12000) on his pc with Vue6 or something.
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GO. SEE. ZOMBIELAND.
Awesome.
But after this, i'm staying away from AVATAR speculation. We'll see whats up in Dec (or at a pre screening or whatever)
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Oct 02, 2009 11:22:04 AM CDT
TheWaqman is RIGHT , AVATAR IS Impressive and will fuck our eyeb
by sherlock_junior
everybody will see this movie
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I understand about SW. But Jesus, weren't you and the ENTIRE old school SW generation expecting better?
I'd like to do just that one day.
Make an improvement. Not to hate on Ridley Scoot, but Cameron did a great and interesting job on taking something else like Alien and making it awesome too.
So, maybe one day, i'll pitch an idea and do the prequels the way the fans would have liked it. (save Ewan as Obi-Wan. Spot on) -
What people forget is that a movie like this has to do well in Middle America. Do you honestly think the folks who went to see JULIE AND JULIA are going to want to see this? Hell, no. thunder - Thunder - THUNDER - THUNDERCATS, FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIL!
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Remember when, before the trailer, folks making this movie were saying "It's going to feature the most realistic, photo-realistic world - it's photo-realistic, with a side order of photorealism and a dash of the photorealist on the side" ? Now that we've seen the lumpy/steaming bill-of-goods we've been sold, they're up there saying "Well, it's not so important that it be photorealistic as fun!" Fuck you, you lying hypocrite pieces of shit.
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I see talk of whether this stuff is good for genre cinema or not. Easy answer - no, it's not, because it means not only that ONE of these gets made at the expense of 50 other projects that mighr've been good, but it also means that WHEN - not if, but WHEN - it fails at the box-office, the executives will not say "Well, it was just a bad movie" but rathe 'Statistics showed it skewed young, below the level of disposable income carriers - so we've got to make sure we don't make ANY more movies like this until market research shows a change in demographic!" FUCK YOU, EXECUTIVES! FUCK YOU A MILLION TIMES.
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I'm totally boycotting this, as much as I'd like to fuck a Na'Vi in the ass.
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I agree on the "photorealistic" crap, but thats what I meant when I said about Marketsaw I think it was a couple of sites like that pimping that idea, when for those who already knew of the movie or did a little research you could see most original quotes were out of context, I'm not saying that word was never bashed around by people on the movie but I think its been widely over exaggerated.As for the genre side I honestly don't know. Was Watchmen a flop? If so why is Badass being made? And for all you say about the B.O takings, every one was saying the same thing about Titanic, and even The Dark Knight to some degree. As I've said before this is going to be Oz for Gamers, you'll know why when/if you see it. And I will hold my hand up and say I honestly don't know if this will be big or a bomb because of that. And yes I too would fuck a Na'vi. Whilst letting the tail probe my prostate, that would be awesome.
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You know you want to see it
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I agree that a lot of websites took it out of context. What bugged me the most about it was that what the fans were thinking they were getting was a clear disconnect with what was actually being promised. As a result, I went around preaching how it was going to be "No Weapons of Any Kind" (a reference to ALIEN 3's infamous line that drew boos at a local theater when the trailer ran as opposed to the cheers I heard in the same theater when the teaser promised the Aliens would go to Earth in the next one). I really didn't like people saying it was going to be endless action (it's going to be a lot of Saturday Morning style SAFE action, or perhaps more like JOHNNY QUEST after the censors got done with it - but it's not going to be face-melting action a la RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK - which is what the genre fans on the boards were claiming, how there would be incredible amounts of blood, massive carnage, how it was going to be rated Hard-R based on the scriptment, etc. Idiots).I started railing, too, when I heard James Cameron compare what he had done with AVATAR to the moon landing - quite possibly one fo the most arrogant and unrealistic and absurd claims I've ever heard from a direcor outside of "No, you shouldn't arrest me for raping and giving drugs and alcohol to a thirteen-year-old girl" which is basically what Roman Polanski says - fuck you, dipshit, you're going to jail for raping a kid - FINALLY!)Your Na'vi concept gave me honest-to-god shivers. I'm not ashamed to say that in this open forum. Would be lying if I said I hadn't thought of that myself, but hearing someone else say it builds community ... and brrrr, it's hawt! :)
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on all except sex with a Na'vi, Ha! Yea I don't see how anyone could have thought this was going to be R rated, even if they hadn't read the scriptment, this will be awesome action, but nothing more gruesome than Star Wars or LotR. And I don't think Aliens would be R today maybe for the launguage but not for violence.And that moon landing quote was the big one I think people didn't like. I think people are reading into that too much, and you know what no one seen the whole movie yet there may be something like that in it, I've heard there is an 8 min PoV scene thats supposed to be the big one I think. And don't get me started on that Polanski shit, I couldn't give a fuck who he was, but the "little 13 year old" was a supposed little druggie, fucking every celeb her mother could leech of. I'm not saying she didn't or should have been "raped" but I'm with Whoopi on this one I think.
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It's cool - I never thought it would be Hard-R, but the fanboys were all talking like, many of the posts I remember: "Cameron's return to sci-fi HARD R!" and "YEAH FINALLY ANOTHER TERMINATOR"! Uh no.Well, if we can't agree on anything else, i'm happy to agree on the hotness and appropriateness of Na'vi sex. LOL back at you.
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as soon as I find some you'll be the first to be notified dude, ;)
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what happened to puppet?? oh yeah...DEL TORO!!!!!
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Oct 02, 2009 3:06:50 PM CDT
I have to confess, I helped create the design for the Na'Vi
by toadkillerdog
You see, a few years ago while I was out on the spacious deck of my outdoor studio paid for with the proceeds of doing an uncredited re-write on Batman Begins, I was busily putting the finishing touches on my design for the Bat Tumbler. Then out of nowhere, three chipmunks with the longest bushiest tails and biggest eyes I have ever seen raced across my design board and knocked over my inkwell. I was furious! So I grabbed the first thing I could get my hands on and hurled it at the fleeing, screeching (almost musical really) forms of the chipmunks! Direct hit! It was a jar of blue paint, and when I saw what it had done - well besides crushing the skulls and breaking the backs of two of the miscreant chipmunks and watching the still twitching form of the third slowly die before I put it out of it's misery with a well placed T-square, I immediately called my buddy Jim in New Zealand and told him of my idea. He loved it! He said he might tweak it, but the blue color and big eyes and tail was exactly what he had in mind. I said he might want to consider adding some sex appeal in that design for the lonely geeks - just think of the extra boost in 'toy' sales that would mean. He loved that idea too! So please, do not blame my friend Jim for the design, I take full responsibility. And please go see Alvin and the Chipmunks Squeakquel, I was a second unit director on that as well as chief caterer and key grip. I did some uncredited background cgi too, but that was just some minor stuff.
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Because if it does, Cameron will have to return to bankable material and that means either Alien 5 or a PROPER Terminator sequel!However, if Avatar is actually half-decent and becomes a roaring success, we'll still have another great Cameron movie in the bag. We can't lose, kiddies!
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That was very funny! But surely you are not accusing Jettl of stretching the truth are you?
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Honestly how do people still care about that shit? I don't care if Cameron teamed up with Ridley Scott and the ghost of Phillip K. Dick, Terminator is a worn-out franchise. Just let it die already. Or let McG kill it off.
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will people cry "james cameron raped my childhood"? george lucas and steven speilberg would like to welcome james cameron to the world of directors who are totally out of touch with normal society.
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we haven't seen shit yet. Hold those types of comments until after December. As for Spielberg. He is largely hit and miss this decade. Minority Report and Munich were good films. Lucas has been absolute shit since...Raiders. Keep in mind he didn't direct Empire and Return of the Jedi sucked.
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i just smell a colossal flop. i want to be able to say, "see i told you so!" when the movie does take a nose dive. you have to admit that the similarities to the star wars prequel trilogy are undeniable. i can't wait for the transformer apologist types who will defend it to their dying breath after it is released. i will torture them mercilessly...
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...both he and Jimmy Carter both said that they have seen UFOs. As well, Michael Reagan has confirmed his father's story, saying that his dad saw a UFO above his ranch in California, and another report says that Reagan saw one while on a plane when he was the governor of California. Further, Richard Nixon was said to have known about alien visitors, this according to his best friend, Jackie Gleason--as related by his wife, and others. Gleason was shown bodies by Nixon personally...and it messed Gleason up for the rest of his life--as he developed an obsession to learn the full scope of the truth.In regard to Sagan's work at Area 51, I know nothing about him examining a monolith...or that such a thing was in the possession of the staff there--what I do know is that the office of president, is most likely by appointment, not by vote--hence, we are looking at some kind of perminent world government of some sort...that is in control--and they have been investigating UFOs for soemtime. Those who sit in the office of president are only puppets--the real game is the shadow government behind the scenes. Yes, Nixon, Carter, Reagan and others, knew of such things, meaning UFOs, but they were never given any real power--they were just figureheads, as all presidents are. As far as Pandora is concerned, it's only my speculation, but setting the film in Alpha Centuri, is just a red herring--this movie is about Mars, and our relation to it.
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Cameron and Scorsese have been married a zillion times and their movies have very hectic tones, then Lucas hasn't remarried since 83 and he compeltely dropped off the map as a director, or a director with any sense for that matter. Meanwhile Coppola has been married since 63 and his flicks have a flowy warmth to em, Spielberg is an anomaly though since he wasn't married until the 80s and he did a lot of good before that.
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Compare Cameron's body of work to someone like Tarentino. Uh yeah.
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i think he just jacks off to women's feet.
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The only connection I could make with Mars, is Avatar being a little like the John Carter from Mars stories. I'll send you the scriptment if you want to read for yourself. And yes Carter witnessed a ufo thats why I read it was the first thing he enquired about when he became president. And I don't beleive he got an answer. And again why don't these supposed "real" ufo tales describe wookies, ewoks, cylons, E.T, ALF, or any other fictional alien, if were to beleive that these directors are conditioning us for "The Truth".
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HE NEEDS LINDA BACK TO SMACK AROUND AFTER LONG DAYS ON THE SET.
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Then you'll be waiting a mighty long time. Avatar isn't going to flop, and it certainly isn't going to be anything less than good. Guaranteed. Hell, even if I didn't give two shits about the movie, I'd still love to see it triumph, just to see the disgustingly and embarassingly negative (without any reasonable cause) fanboy drones like yourself have their whiny faces rubbed in the mud. Your type will have to find something else to 'rage on' about, unfortunately, because Avatar won't be it. And where exactly are you getting a SW prequel vibe from, other than bullshit and unfounded assumptions? The two are not even comparable examples, not least of which because The Phantom Menace trailers met with unequivocal praise back in 98/99, and EVERYONE was looking forward to that movie, and hoping and expecting it to be great. I can't remember any dissenting voices back then. Which cannot be said of Avatar. All of which serves as a very apt example of how much fan culture has changed over the last 10 years - a turn for the decidedly negative. Of course, on the miniscule chance that I'm wrong about any of this, I'll do a Werner Herzog and eat my shoe.
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Oct 02, 2009 5:08:48 PM CDT
Media Messiah, oh you are abandoning all rational thought
by talkbacker with no name
Ignoring all evidence to the contrary and going with just the conspiracy stuff eh? Reagan's son? Nixon's best friend? Jackie Gleason's wife? that's your proof!? JC having a hidden message about us and our relation to Mars in Avatar? um...ok man.
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Oct 02, 2009 5:09:44 PM CDT
Anybody see the Family Guy ep where Any Dick rolls into the club
by toughguyrizzo
Yeah, thats like when Lockesbroken leg chimes in. Game over in credible talkback.
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ARE YOU JUST JEALOUS THAT BIG JIM DOESN'T SLAP YOU AROUND INSTEAD? I KNOW YOU LOVE THAT SADOMASOCHISTIC STUFF. DO YOU LONG TO BE CAMERON'S GIMP? WRITE HIM A LETTER, YOU COULD GET LUCKY!!FAILING THAT, SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP USING CAPS!!
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"All these groups really doubt their exclusive truth, and therefore they all sit together and say the same thing continually until they finally believe it. FANATICISM(emphasis mine) is ALWAYS a sign of repressed doubt. You can study that in the history of the Church. Always in those times when the Church begins to waver the style becomes fanatical, or fanatical sects spring up, because the secret doubt has to be quenched. When one is convinced, one is perfectly calm and can discuss one's belief as a personal point of view without any particular resentment." -C.G. Jung
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The reason Carter never got an answer is because they were doing some dodgy weapon test or some shit they didn't want him to know about I would imagine.
good luck with Media Messiah. I don't know why I try and engage with him. The attempt is always futile. But god love his batshit. Something very entertaining about it all. -
I love how people are saying the stills look fake. Compared to what?
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... but it sure ain't kickin' it.
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I'll take you up on that, as long as it's legal Na'Vi porn. :)
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DON'T USE ALL CAPS. IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE AN EVEN BIGGER FUCKTARD.
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the star wars comparison comes from me looking at the footage and pics of avatar and thinking that it looks exactly the same as attack of the clones. people were excited about the phantom menace trailer until they saw the movie. the reason myself and others are hating on the avatar footage is because we watch it and see the phantom menace trailer. "those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it". learn from the prequel. avatar will suck little furry blue balls. just wait and watch. cameron = lucas.
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you should turn it off. you look like an idiot. p.s. is TAINTLICK, locksbrokenleg?
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with that jung quote. it seems irrelevant to me...
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If you're not trying to encourage Charyoutree and me, stop talking about sucking on their furry blue balls.
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except blue on the outside, but still green on the inside. they are a delicacy on my planet.
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looks i will be torturing you in december as you try to explain why avatar is actually good even though every one is dissing it.
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Just found it seemed to describe the kind of bullshit histrionics that go on in here. People become fanatical about their opinion because deep inside they're really not sure...and none of us will be until we actually see the movie.
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very true.
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what was/is being discussed, but the way in which it is...
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just thought i'd throw it in anyway!
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Classic
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You won't be 'torturing' anyone, buddy, least of all me. I, on the other hand, along with the usual bunch of level-headed and decent folk around here (they know who they are) WILL be tearing you a new asshole with great relish come Dec 18th. And I expect once everyone sees the movie, most here, including those as of now unconverted or sceptical, will be on our side of the fence too, bar the usual smattering of assholes, of course.'Cameron=Lucas.' See, here's the problem. You map one thing on to another with no rhyme or reason. Avatar = highly awaited movie/long absent director,so therefore must = SW prequels. Doesn't work that way. One makes judgments on a rational level (if one isn't a foaming goon, that is). See, I read the Avatar scriptment about 12 years ago. It was great. In addition, I've seen the 15 mins of footage. Have you? Because it sure gives you a good idea if things are going to work or not, and how well the ideas have been translated to film, not to mention a good indication of what the rest of the movie may be like. Then there's the small matter of James Cameron's track record, where he's gone above and beyond, and hit it out of the park EVERY FUCKING TIME. Now all of these things don't neccessarily add up to mean that Avatar's going to be any good, but they CAN give you a pretty damn good indication that the movie is HIGHLY LIKELY to be very good. Are you operating on any such reasoned level, or are you simply concerned with inflating your own ego?I also like the way you've set it up so that anybody who disagrees with you is automatically an 'apologist'. Notwithstanding the fact that the term 'apologist' is an redundantly stupid fanboy invention , at least in my world - I like what I like, and make no apologies whatsoever for it - people won't be defending or praising Avatar because they are 'apologists', but because it'll be fucking good. And if it's not, it's not. But of course, haters will see what they want to see. If that's unacceptable to you, perhaps you shouldn't get into online debates with adults who don't see things in your juvenile, black-and-white terms. So when Avatar tears the roof off this December, get ready to smile and spread your ass cheeks for some incoming 15 inch Na'vi blue cock - coutesy of Mr. James Cameron, and your pal, TurdontheRun!
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You guys are still hung up on the means and I'm talking about the end. I could just refer you to my already posted thoughts but to reiterate: Technical achievements are irrelevant if they don't meet the presumed goal of "photo realism" (which is not a good term because movement causes a lot of the problems). I don't need to know a goddamn technical thing to judge whether something looks right or not, it's completely beside the point of how real something looks. Fuck I really did say all this already.
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Haha it's a deal dude. And Talkbacker with no name your right thats probably the answer to most ufo stories sadly, I want to beleive, but it gets hard as we get older and more cynical.
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Oct 02, 2009 6:48:51 PM CDT
Obama and Oprah were in Copehagen to confer with the Illuminati
by toadkillerdog
That was the real reason behind the last minute trip. The Olympics was just a smoke screen. Rio had already been given the games in order to bring the worlds greatest and horniest and most sexually desirable athletes, into contact with Rio's famous - and highly contagious, nightlife. By dong this, they insured that they could control the virus vector the new tailor-made STD back into the worlds general pop centers in order to maintain control of the captive population of humans. However, the reason that their puppets Obama and Oprah were summoned to the emergency session, was because a dangerous breach in security had been detected within the United States. A lone and lonely and stubbornly alone poster on an otherwise ignored and benighted geek oriented website had been posting detailed descriptions of the Illuminati and their methods of control. Details that could only have come from within. Who was this 'Media Messiah'? O&O have been tasked to find out and woe betide any who get in their way.
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Er, no actually, they're not. Kwis isn't dissing it. southafricanguy isn't. cloudrider isn't. waqman isn't. etc., etc. And I doubt they'll have changed their minds come Dec. Not to mention that there are many more talkbackers who are on the fence, or cautiously optimistic if not yet sold. I'd say the divide is about 50/50, and I'd wager that many of the sceptics will be pleasantly surprised by this movie when they finally see it. However, all that is largely irrelevant. Even if I was the sole voice defending Avatar it wouldn't matter. I know what I know, I know why I have the opinions I do, and I'm not compelled to be a sheep and like or dislike something based on what others think. I couldn't give a damn. Try thinking for yourself, and alleviate yourself out of the herd mentality.
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Oct 02, 2009 6:57:46 PM CDT
It doesn't look impressive. That's really all there is to it
by thunderbolt ross
It might be good - it doesn't look bad. It just doesn't look spectacular or groundbreaking in any way. I guess the 3D is the groundbreaking part, and we'll see about that. Otherwise, like the Star Wars prequels, it looks "beautiful" aka phony. Personally I'm sick of every outdoors shot looking like an oil painting. And yes, weightless CG characters... But these are relatively common things and really par for the course.If it wasn't so hyped, I doubt there would be much backlash. But it was, so there you have it.
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1. you did not read my last post to you. avatar looks like the prequal star wars trilogy. thats why i compared them. avatar is a visual rehashing of the prequal trilogy.
2. the avatar scriptment was garbage unless you are a hippy, then you loved it.
3. "cameron hits it out of the park every time". wrong: strange days, xenogenesis, the lost tomb of jesus
4. the term apologist is not a geek fanboy invention. look it up in a dictionary
5. when december comes you will be very embarrassed that you backed this cartoon flop
see, turd, special effects do not a good movie make. photo-realism in cgi will not save the day. and i think that you have already spread you ass cheeks for james cameron. cameron wants to fuck you eyeballs, but it will be your anus that takes that pain. -
you need to work on your reading comprehension. i said everyone would be dissing it in december. as far as i can tell, i am the biggest avatar hater at the moment
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which makes you the sheep and me the one with an original thought in his head. don't beleive the hype, TurdontheRun
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...based on what I've already seen. Unless the story and execution turn out to be totally, atrociously, Phantom Menace-ly god awful, I imagine I'll consider it a worthwhile time at the movies, at the very least. There, that's all the ammunition needed for the Thundersmurf brigade to declare me a lemming and a rube and an unwitting enemy to the very integrity of cinema as we know it. I know how these talkbacks work.
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phantom menacey. as in: avatar is very phantom menacey
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Just fucking with ya! I plan on seeing this movie no matter what. And I hope I enjoy it. I never want to pay to see a movie and hope I hate it! That is just motarded.
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It could be. Maybe not, though. I'll let you know in December.
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Yeah, I'm definitely not enough of a masochist to pay for something I look forward to hating. Though I imagine such people do exist, and I bet AICN attracts more than its share of them.
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i'll just rent the dark crystal instead. even though those main characters look like elves with down syndrome. better than the gungan navi though
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when i was in line for 2 hours to see phantom menace on opening night, the guys behind me talked for at least 30 of those minutes about how bad the movie was going to suck. that blew me away.
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Sadly, they do indeed.
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"1. you did not read my last post to you. avatar looks like the prequal star wars trilogy. thats why i compared them. avatar is a visual rehashing of the prequal trilogy."I read it fine. Yours is a superficial comparison at best. Not to mention the fact that Avatar was written BEFORE the prequels. I'm not splitting hairs about it, though."2. the avatar scriptment was garbage unless you are a hippy, then you loved it."Nah, it was great. And has probably been greatly improved since then. And I'm less concerned with the 'eco' aspects of the script than character and drama. Not to mention ruddy great battles.3. "cameron hits it out of the park every time". wrong: strange days, xenogenesis, the lost tomb of jesus "Xenogensis was a neophyte short student effort made to get a job with Roger Corman. It's an impressive piece of work for a bunch of non-film school kids, made for zero budget and in the 70's. More entertaining than almost any summer blockbuster this year, actually. Strange Days is simply fucking superb, a near master-piece. Lost Tomb of Jesus: Haven't seen it (and Cameron only produced it), but anything that pisses off fundamentalist Christians gets my vote."4. the term apologist is not a geek fanboy invention. look it up in a dictionary "I'm aware of this - but it's been co-opted by fanboys for their own devices, no?."5. when december comes you will be very embarrassed that you backed this cartoon flop"I very much doubt it."see, turd, special effects do not a good movie make. photo-realism in cgi will not save the day." Agreed. I'm less concerned about effects and more concerned about an exciting and dramatic sci-fi action tale, and I'm confident Cameron will deliver. "and i think that you have already spread you ass cheeks for james cameron. cameron wants to fuck you eyeballs, but it will be your anus that takes that pain."I'll let him warm up on you first, big boy."you need to work on your reading comprehension. i said everyone would be dissing it in december. as far as i can tell, i am the biggest avatar hater at the moment"Apparently you need to work on yours. I fully acknowledged the situation as it stands now, AND as it's likely to be after Avatar's release. As for you being the 'biggest Avatar hater' - I think TAINTLICK and Trannyformers have got you beat. Dare you match their level of hilarious absurdity??2which makes you the sheep and me the one with an original thought in his head. don't beleive the hype, TurdontheRun" I don't believe the hype. I believe in reason and common sense. As for your 'original thoughts', I have yet to see any compelling evidence. Baa!!! Baa!!!
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Since he got hammered, I am betting he comes back as: ChickenTikkaMasala1978 You have any ideas?
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hahaha i'll take it. what odds you offering on that?
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Even though they're the most boring, useless things on the planet.
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Odds are: 5:2. What is your entry?
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Well if a mild-mannered, polite gentleman like that guy can get the hammer, surely NONE of us are safe! FACT! So is this like the powerball, where we can get partial credit for getting one part of his name? Either way, my guess is ConanTheMasturbator1978.
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Yeah, he is such a sweetie, Actually I have never had a run in with him, just saw some of the insanity left in his wake though.
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1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 2) ConanTheMasturbator1978 3) CarlTheMolester1978
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How goes it? Been away from AICN for a bit, so the banhammer fell on CTM1978. CarlTongueCleaner1978 ?
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Awesome! I bow down and salute you! Truly awesome name! Where you been duded, stuck on Altaira?
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1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978
3) CarlTheMolester1978 4) CarlTongueCleaner1978 -
1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius) -
Yeah, the Skyway was all backed up, past the Outer Rings. Who the Hell is TAINTLICK? a.k.a. AssimovLicks perhaps?
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1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius) 5) ConvictedTrannyMolestor1978 -
1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius)
5) ConvictedTrannyMolestor1978 (Conti) -
your time with that nerdrage dude, because even if he is proven very wrong come December re the b.o, he will just back peddle, change tact, and start going on about some other reason why it sucks while never acknowledging that he was wrong. Dont worry, guys like him and thusspake are like the loony fringe, all conspiracy theories and opinions based on nothing more than what they want to believe. Look at his comeback for fucks sake, he mentions a student film from the 70's (which is remarkable considering it was made for almost nothing), a documentary Cameron simply produced, but neither wrote nor made, and Strange Days (which he did nt direct) nevermind that its a damn good film, and Bigelow is one of the single most underrated directors there is. But in his mind this is PROOF of what is nothing more than his opinion. And you know Turd that a lot of people on these talkbacks have a very hard time understanding the difference between fact and their opinion....
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Same bad gimmick, different name.
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I am on my own this weekend as my wife is visiting family in Minnesota to eat Lutefisk! I swore I would drop a nuke on Minny if they tried to make me eat that shit again! They must have believed me because I did not get an invite. I wasn't kidding man, I would do it, I would fuck em up bad! Lutefisk is the closest thing to living shit that exists on this planet - outside of a few Tb'ers I could point to.
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1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius)
5) ConvictedTrannyMolestor1978 (Conti) 6)ConceivedThruMasterbation1978 (Morbius) 7)ClosetTurdMolestor1978(TKD) -
spake doth protest too much, what the hell are they always doing in these talkbacks repeating themselves ad nasuem like a fucking stuck record? Ok We all get it motherfucker you have already decieded you dont like the film, hate it even (they are those special types that can review films before seeing them), or that it simply does nt interest you (which are more than entitled to), yet here you are saying the same damn shit you ve been saying for months now. Nerdrage (perfect name btw) and thus spake, guys, please get a life and stop wasting your time in talkbacks for films you have no interest in or that you hate, and go find something to talk about that you do like. Or barring that please grow up and realize that just becuase you say something sucks does nt make it so, and is nt going to make your fondest wishes for it to fail come true (are you both trying to get jobs on Fox news?). There are many of us that have very valid reasons for thinking (not KNOWING like you arrogant fuckers) that Avatar may be good and/or do well based on things we have read seen etc....get over it...
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I kinda like that one, myself.
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CrudeTaintMuncher1978
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Xenogenesis and Johnny Sokko Lives leave the room
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Oct 02, 2009 9:31:35 PM CDT
Sal - we have to go to the board for a ruling on that one
by toadkillerdog
The board has ruled that you have included egregious insults to monkeykind, and since we can not risk the lawsuits that monkeyfuckers worldwide would launch against us - considering our net worth is @ $1.35 (US), you must modify the entry. The Board
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1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius)
5) ConvictedTrannyMolestor1978 (Conti)
6)ConceivedThruMasterbation1978 (Morbius)
7)ClosetTurdMolestor1978(TKD) 8)CrudeTaintMuncher1978 (Morbius) 9) This is a bordeline entry but fuck it - ContinualTalkbackersMisfortune1978 (Conti) Special Mention to Mr. Sal Bando (although this aint official so don't sue us! - The Board) CokeheadedTrannyMonkeyfucker1978 -
1) ChickenTikkaMasala1978 (TKD)
2) ConanTheMasturbator1978(ebonic)
3) CarlTheMolester1978 (TKD)
4) CarlTongueCleaner1978(Morbius)
5) ConvictedTrannyMolestor1978 (Conti)
6)ConceivedThruMasterbation197 8 (Morbius)
7)ClosetTurdMolestor1978(TKD)
8)CrudeTaintMuncher1978 (Morbius)
9) This is a bordeline entry but fuck it - ContinualTalkbackersMisfortune 1978 (Conti) 10)CuckoldedTurnedMisogynist1978(Conti) 11)CravesTheMansac1978 (Morbius) 12) CravesTheMangina1978 (TKD)
Special Mention to Mr. Sal Bando (although this aint official so don't sue us! - The Board)
CokeheadedTrannyMonkeyfucker1978 -
with that Moon landing comment for fucks sake do you lack that much of an ability to understand English to not get the analogy Cameron was making? Geez...I realize you and your kind are desperate to find reasons and things to hate about Cameron and this film, but stop making yourself look like you are even more desperate by latching onto any and every damn little thing the guy has ever said and then twisting and interpreting it in such a way that it fits your opinions. Seriously dude, Fox news needs you....
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I have to walk the dog. Then I am going to do some reading. Welcome back. C'ya.
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...Matthew Lillards. That's ALL I see!
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Don't all blow your loads at once now.
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oh he went with TehCreepyThinMan in the end. Well nobody saw that coming. classic play!
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Skepticism, sure. Cautiousness, yes. But full blown hate? I didn't knew there was so much hate against James Cameron going on.
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all about hating and tearing down everything, especially if its from someone that has had the audacity to be very successful at what they do. I dont recognize fandom anymore as being film fans, or sci-fi geeks, its more like politics now imho, screw fact or objectivity, its all about opinion and who can shout the loudest...
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Asimov?
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REASON ENOUGH TO GIVE IT THE OLYMPICS.
I FOR ONE CANNOT WAIT FOR THE GAMES TO BEGIN. -
Well, if you're 16-, maybe you'll like Avatar. And believe me, you will have to be 16- to swallow this crap. Period.
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visualization and stylization of the Navi appearance and movement.
You yourself stated that you dont feel they are real,regardless of the technicality of their construction.And i repeat that is understandable,but that is only a subjective point of view,thats your belief.I on the other hand,find the Navi a lot more real,more physical,more grounded to reality as living beings, than those cockroaches in D9.
From a technical point of view,the Navi is the most superior cgi thing we have seen until know.it has its flaws but it shows the future.That is the saying from experts of the cgi animation.But how the Navi feel to each one of us,well thats a personal matter.You have your opinion,i have mine,lets just agree that we disagree.
But i would like to state something: i strongly believe that most of the haters or at least the people who are a bit disappointed with what they have seen until now,i am pretty sure that when they go to watch the movie,after a while they will be so much thrilled and dedicated to the story,characters and visuals,to the whole package,that they wont give a fuck about the Navi not being exactly 'real' and most of them will leave the cinemas with a big smile on their faces.
Yes thats how much faith i have on Jim Cameron.He is the last one of his generation. -
I started OFF saying these were just opinions. That being said, I find it hard to believe anyone really thinks the Navi look "real". Anyway, I have never read anything by anybody criticizing the technical aspects of the texture mapping or any of that nonsense. The vast majority of complaint is that it doesn't look ground-breaking, or photo real ... It looks like high quality CGI but CGI nonetheless. I've said again and again that what I'm talking about is the viewing experience, which is all that should matter anyway. Who gives a fuck about what a bunch of CG "artists" are doing toiling behind the scenes? It might be interesting if the result was actually impressive, but you can't put the cart before the horse and say they developed this that and the other method or technology, therefore it looks great. No, first it has to look great then more people might be interested and say gee how did they do that? And again, these complaints are in the context of hearing how mind-blowing it was going to be for years. there's nothing haterly about being told repeatedly how amazing something is going to be then saying, nope it does not look amazing to me.
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Naaah man. If you were shown those pics out of context and not knowing what they were or where they were from. Then told they were photos of some models or sculptures for a new movie coming out, I find it hard to believe you would question it being a cgi image. It's good shit maaan. The most realistic thing we have ever seen on film so far. Is that really up for debate?
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Both are weta and the navi are a progression from things they learnt from doing gollum surely?
As for District 9. I'd speculate they were designed with the same computer shit that was built for Avatar right?
Am I wrong Weta handled all three of these projects? and each is pushing effects forward with each project? I of course have no idea what i'm talking about when it comes to effects, but I think you see my point none the less. -
that it's undoubtedly gonna be one of the most kick-ass films of all time. James Cameron does not fail...he never has and he sure as hell aint starting now. Those are the facts, bottom line, so there is NO reason anyone should doubt this film.
I can do nothing but feel incredibly sorry for those who dismiss Avatar as a cartoon in the vein of the prequels. But then again at the same time, it makes me really glad im not you people, and I can actually get enjoyment and pleasure out of things. So go ahead continue to spend 50 dollars every time a new Bayformers movie comes out while at the same time deriding Cameron cause he's successful...he's already won anyway. -
your assessments are way off but what ever. southafricanguy, you don't know me and you sound like a pretentious ass. TurdontheRun, you have your head so far up your ass your seeing navi penis in 3-d. enjoy captain eo 2009, douchbags. oh yeah, p.s. there is no avatar love in this talk back at all. everyone is just being "cautiously optimistic". hhhmmm. reminds me of when revenge of the sith came out... james cameron = george lucas. i will do no back peddling in december. it will be the avatar apologists who will be back peddling and blaming the hype for killing the movie. enjoy transformers 3, er i mean, avatar. now, back to the avatar love fest for you all.
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james cameron is not going to send you a check. give it up
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Oct 03, 2009 5:30:14 PM CDT
southafricanguy, i've been reading your posts
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
you truly are an annoying little tool.
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you need a nap
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for something that hasnt happened yet..SAG is going off the track record of the best modern director since the 80s (fincher being another one) so until this film is released, the haters should shut their fucking traps.
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really? thats pretty fucking lazy..as is the thundersmurfs (which is actually funny)haters are just upset that they cant admit publically they they saw a 200 million chick flick (on more than one occasion) and liked it.shut your fucking mouths whiny bitches
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and Bay isn't going to be sending you any checks either, you sound extremely bitter. Would you kindly...fuck off please? All you guys have been doing is bitching about this film. Give it a rest for 5 minutes.
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? Or would you like us all to clap for you, you arrogant sad little man? You re the one on here spending your time always repeating yourself about something you hate/have no interest. I ll say again....get a fucking life asshole!!
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bitter annoying assholes that are just pissed off that not everyone here hates what they do....
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How the fuck can I be an apologist for a film that no-one has seen or has nt even come out yet? Seriously dude, seek employment at Fox news, you will fit right in there with the mindset that if you say something enough times you will actually convince yourself its true, and your "damn the facts" ignorance. Cant wait to see the bitter, ranting, shit you are going to repeat for 500 times come December while you spend hours doing so about a film you have no interest in.......
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you are a douchebag. first you tried to be holier than thou with me. when that didn't work you sank to my level. that is because you are like me. ha ha. everyone on this site is a douchebag asshole. i love when people try to be peace and love here. what a joke. i repeat. every one (including me) on this site is an asshole. now go write your fan fiction about fucking a navi up the ass. bwahahaha
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loser
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you are a genius. how did you know that? you are so insightful and deep.
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hasta la vista dude! shine on bro! james cameron turned the terminator franchise into a kiddie film. don't blame mcg for the state of the terminator franchise. cameron fucked that up himself. cameron has a perfect track record my ass.
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its my new pass time. good night. sleep tight. i love you all.
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you said you want to be able to say "i told you so" when avatar flop in dec. i'm curious. what if the opposite happens, and avatar gets high rating in RT, and does great numbers in the box office? would you then youtube yourself saying sorry you're wrong all along? seems like the right thing to do.
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PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
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Yeah the stills look great - I've already mentioned that - but I'm not talking about the stills. No way in hell do I see that trailer and think anything but "pretty good CGI", if I think anything.
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Oct 04, 2009 11:25:46 AM CDT
cloudrider`, transformers 2 made a ton of money
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
and you love that movie because of it right?
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Oct 04, 2009 11:26:30 AM CDT
CharyouTree, every one on this site is a troll
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
where the fuck do you think you are? idiot.
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that movie is not even close to being a classic. although it does contain one of my favorite cheesy movie lines ever. "you never walked away from anything in your life, now fight!!!!!"
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don't use your cap lock button, it makes you look stupid.
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yeah fair point, man. But as Sam Worthington said "it's not made for apple mac". I'll wait until I see it in 3d on imax (which is what it is made for) before I can make a jusgement I think.
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You have made it to the top of the talkbackers now that is the most unfunny and annoying cunt here at the moment. Top of the class, son. But enjoy it while you can, it won't last and then you won't even have that.
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unfunny, borderline insane nutjob that just keeps saying the same shit repeatedly, while being hyper annoying, all the while basking in his own self important smugness....how pathetic this loser is, and yet sad at the same time that he calls other people losers while wasting his time and life continually posting in talkbacks for things he has no interest in.....He is truly special (in that rainman sorta way) we really should give him a cookie and clap for him for being so special......
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ze over before he would ever answer a question like that directly, becuase he cant even begin to fathom that his deepest wishes/delusions that he mistakes for reality may not come true. THis nutjob may commit suicide this Dec because if his fantasy does nt come true Im not sure how he will be able to deal with the contradiction of the crap he blesses us with here in his retarded and infantile posts....
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the avatar tb rulebook is getting convulated.
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do you post on Joystiq aswell Nerd Rage? I remember a troll there who got banned 10 times and all he would do was troll popular stuff and then use the "holier than thou" statement 20 times.
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you are all trolls and i love fucking with you. especially the avatar/ james cameron losers. you should all be psychologists. you hit the nail on the head with me. all of you various psychoanalysis of me were exactly right!
AICN is a scum pit. it is the bottom of the barrell and evryone who comes here is a bitch. like i said before i love fucking with trolls. its what i do when i have nothing to do at work.
how many of you were at the transformers or gi joe talk backs, talking shit about those movies and thier directors long before the movie came out? answer: all of you.
see my name? that is you. a reflection of you and every one at this site? have you ever been to a real movie site? have you seen what the talk backs are like? i'll tell you that its not like this shit hole.
have fun playing in the muck! assholes. :) -
you do not deserve your name.
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Oct 05, 2009 11:39:52 AM CDT
southafricanguy, already answered the question
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
learn how to read. loser.
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if you male fun of avatar or james cameron you will get called a troll! ooooh, a troll! scary!
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i have been coming to this site since 1998. i would read the talkbacks and be disgusted by the fucked up bullshit comments that everyone would make here, so i stopped reading the comments for years. i liked the site, but thought the talkbackers were the scum of the earth. so, now that i have a job where sometimes i have a free hour or two, i spent some of that time dishing back the bullshit to talkbackers here that they have been dishing out since this site began. s, fuck you all and deal with it. you can dish it out, so now you get to take it. and oh yeah, James Cameron = George Lucas. suck it bitches! hahahahahaha
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you are a thirteen year old girl
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Oct 05, 2009 12:07:15 PM CDT
TheWaqman, this is the only site i post on
by nerd_rage_retard_strength
so, no, i was not on your gay porn site messing with you. i don't have any problems with the gays.
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The primary reason AVATAR will fail is because on November 27th 2009, Pres. Obama is set to announce to the world the existance of real "aliens" that have been working with the USA since the 1940's. At that point fake aliens become obsolete.
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in the kindergarten?? I guess when they cant put up your pathetic and desperate need for attention they park you in front of a computer and let you whine, cry, and post your "look at me" "look at me" nonsense......
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you are too funny dude. Love how you actually expect anyone to believe you have a job or a life...nice one lol. And love your "joker" routine..that whole im exposing everyone's true nature act. Except no-one here is actually stupid enough to buy that that is why you waste your time and life constantly repeating yourself about something "you have no interest in" Tell me you insane fanboy manchild, when you look in the mirror, do you see Batman?
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im in kindergarten and yet i am smarter than you and making fun of you. funny how that works! when did i say that i have no interest in avatar. i have a lot of interest in torturing losers like you who can't wait for the piece of crap. funny how your here posting with me. i thought you had a life? you keep coming here and prolonging the conversation. that makes you a much bigger loser. you are sad. i feel sorry for you. do you need more attention from me? poor baby :(
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all i did was make fun of avatar, which inspired a massive flame war against me. who is the loser here? me for expressing a different opinion? or the flamers who can't give up dissing me because i think that avatar will be the phantom menace of 2009? you flamers are pathetic! hahahaha
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loser who deludes himself into thinking I or anyone gives a shit what you think of Avatar. Notice how we are nt saying anything about it. We are just bored with seeing you say the same annoying shit again and again....but keep going at it you fanboy manchild, because the sad reality is you are nt torturing anybody, sorry your "Joker" routine is nt working..But you keep thinking your different opinion makes you special and helps you compensate for what you lack in other areas.
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congratulations, you must be proud of yourself, again, we will try to arrange to have a cookie sent to you. Its just your arrogant, know it all, can predict the future with certainty attitude that no-one can stand.....I ve enjoyed prolonging this conversation just to see how truly mental you are. You are obviously one of those really pathetic, bitter, loser in real life fanboys. And you are right about only one single thing, I do have a life and I dont need to waste one more second of it conversing with your type when I could be discussing film and sci-fi with intelligent, rational genre fans that can actually string together a coherent argument useing said logic and reason.....
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You heard it here first.
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Oct 06, 2009 3:21:26 AM CDT
cameron's crappy marriages are turning him into lucas
by takingscorpioscalls
he's making completely bungnuts insanity onscreen, compeltely detached from reality, just like lucas's own corporate soulless prequels, after not remarrying since 83 lucas has compeltely dropped off the map as a director. this is unfortunately happening to cameron because of his hectic emotional instability.
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