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Fridays = Ratings Kryptonite!! SMALLVILLE Down 45%!! LAW & ORDER Down 41%!! DOLLHOUSE Down 41%!! MEDIUM Down 33%!! Ack!!
I am – Hercules!!
Many premieres hit Friday; the 18-49 scores:
2.3 20/20
2.2 Ghost Whisperer
2.0 Medium
1.7 Numbers
1.5 Dateline
1.5 The Jay Leno Show
1.5 Modern Family (r)
1.5 Cougar Town (r)
1.4 FlashForward (r)
1.3 Law & Order
1.0 Brothers
1.0 Dollhouse
1.0 Smallville
* Fridays = Kryptonite! All the premieres were down down down from their previous-season premieres, and the biggest dip came for “Smallville” at 45%.
* “Dollhouse” was down 41% from its premiere last February, but about even from its first-season finale in May.
* “Medium,” which jumped to Fridays from whole other network, fell 33%
* Good news and bad news for “Leno”: it hit its lowest score to date but finally beat some big-four shows.
* The only NBC show “Leno” beat this week was “Law & Order,” which launched its milestone 20th season at 8 p.m. last night. It was down 41% from its launch last November and couldn't even top ABC's "FlashForward" repeat. Looks like it may not beat “Gunsmoke” after all!
Find all of James Hibberd’s analysis of the Friday-night ratings here.
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I love Smallville and some of us need our Superman fix, but dang. Looks like moving it to Friday made sure that no one remembers it.
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why the hell did they move smallville to fridays? i couldnt
care less about law & order or even medium but they should move dollhouse to another night -
Who stays in on Friday night? I much preferred Thursday night, but I live by the dvr and skip commercials while I watch on my own time.
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I loved Smallville however Friday nights I am out at my dad's house watching Monk and Psyche..
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Dumping Smallville for that vampire show is going to bite CW in the ass. Teenage girls are fickle, fanboys will relentlessly pursue the media they enjoy. Oh yeah, CW fuck you for getting rid of Reaper. (see what I mean)
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Then after a quick bathroom break that is followed up by Psych.
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The ratings are a dinosaur. It doesn't take into account DVRs, Hulu and other online features. Are older people who have nothing to do at night. Networks need to take a look at the ad money coming from the online sites. If it stands now Dollhouse is dead and this will be Smallville's last season. Then again Fox sucks on Fridays, so it may stick around. Heroes is now NBC's number one drama, so canceling that is no longer an option for NBC.
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I don't go out to clubs/bars/concerts as much as I used to, but Fridays are for movie theaters, going out to dinner and watching cool Blu-rays I picked up that week. I think X-Files is the only show to survive on fridays. Every cool show that has been sentenced to fridays died a premature death like Space: Above and Beyond, Firefly and Terminator. This si the definitely the last season of Smallville, but it's probably 2 seasons overdue.
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Problem is, they have milked out the pretense for 2-3 years too long. Fucking FLY already! Quit with the teasing and foreplay just to stop before the viewer can finish. There is only so long you can circle jerk someone before they say to hell with it.
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No kidding ? Matrix Superman ? Really ?
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then youll see a boast
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Vampire Diaries would be a great excuse for a teenage girl "slumber party" on Friday nights. Smallville belongs during the week when people can watch it. It seems like it should be that simple. But obviously CW has Fox-itis.
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These ratings write-ups are the best new addition to this site in some time!
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Is CW-esque.
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CW was retarded for moving it to fridays, The show is moving foward and finally getting out of the lull it was in 2 years ago, and nobody is watching because it's on Fridays in a dead slot.I hope CW moves it back to thursdays (or wednesdays might be better?) and we can get people watching, We don't want this season to be the last
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But don't put it up against House.
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One is the loneliest number.
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I had a brain fart.
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DVR's aren't included in ratings? That's a substantial number- and the only way I've ever watched Dollhouse.
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Because its a good show and the fact that we are now seeing Clark's transformation from Superboy to Superman is great. I think Smallville would get much better ratings in that Wednesday night timeslot.
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it's so rancid now, it's probably safer on USA.
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to the lowest rated night on television?
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I refuse to believe anybody under 50 is watching the fucking Ghost Whisperer. No sir, I believe it not.
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Just to correct some previous comments, DVR info is used in the ratings. Nielsen does put equipment in DVR boxes and uses that info to credit shows. However, the show has to be watched within 6-7 days for it to count. That info wont show up in the overnights of course but it will be credited to the networks for the final tallies.
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reality tv repeats/castoffs inc
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The last Friday night show that I bothered to tune in to was XFiles - and that was when I would go out to the clubs (Get drunk watching XFiles, then hit the bars at 10 o'clock...good times). Preceeding that was when I was a kid and we'd watch the A-Team, and years before that, it was Dukes of Hazzard - and that's going back quite a ways. Times have changed, and even geeks go out Friday nights - Makes me think that the Disney channel family shows might have a better chance of getting good Friday night ratings, rather than any of the big four networks trying to find "mass appeal". Other than nostalgia, Friday Nights are meant for going out and having fun (or, as suggested, cuddling up with a warm body and a Blue-ray), not watching commercials.
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doubtful the dumbass suits at Fox understand that, though. Why is everyone crowding everything into Thursdays, leaving Sunday night empty (typically a good night for people to be at home, and it used to be a prime time night)
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fuck that show in its ass
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Sep 26, 2009 1:35:14 PM CDT
I thought people were hurting for money, and staying home to sav
by shoe1985
When you look at Friday's numbers, you should expect lower numbers compared to the rest of the week. The fact is that people are watching more TV than ever, but not in traditional ways. Networks are taking a beating in ad revenue right now because of DVR and people watching shows online.
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i love it! get cancelled come on!
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People will watch stuff if it's worth the time.
I'm glad to hear that Leno's numbers are not good... the guy absolutely sucks. -
Wow, that's a lot of pent up homosexual aggression in your post. But admitting your attraction for the men on the show is the first step for you to come out of the closet.
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We're still using a system created in the 60s. This system basically said no one watched Star Trek when people did. It's outdated.
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Long Live the Dollhouse!
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So what a rating bitch it is then, huh? Fuckers. I'm sick of networks, sick of their dead beat ideas and cancellations. Cable channels are the only ones with good hour-longs that don't get cancelled.
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How the fuck can you build up a 20 episode season rivalry with the expectation of a huge awesome Supes v. Doomsday fight culminating into a 30 second non-fight, makes absolutely no sense to me.
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SMALLVILLE held its own against SURVIVOR for years and now you bury it in the Friday Death Slot for your stupid little TWILIGHT ripoff and *GASP!* the ratings go down. Wow, who could have seen that one coming?
Look here, you overpaid sewer mutants pretending to be CW programming executives, if you hate SMALLVILLE that much, just cancel the show already. But if you're actually serious about saving it and helping it thrive, then move it the hell away from Friday night.
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1.5 rating threshold and it's already like 3 weeks in to his 2 year run?
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teaming it with Fringe.
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Because it's not chick show. They can't just dump it, because it does serve some purpose, but the CW is hard core tweener centric now.
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It's the same deal with flying. A couple of times they have had teasers that lead the audience to believe that in that episode, Clark would fly. Doomsday wasn't *THAT* bad for a TV budget. It did seem stupid to end in a non fight. And wait... how can concrete hold a creature as strong or stronger than superman anyway??? Why didn't Clark super-leap his ass into space and DD would spin helplessly in the vacuum for all eternity.
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It's not as good as it used to be, and never lived up to it's potential. But it was the only show the CW/WB had for years getting ratings, and now they dump in to Fridays. Leno cannot be cancelled, because they don't have 5 hours of anything to replace him.
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If I recall correctly, many of my favorite series have been cancelled over the friday night death slot. Farscape, Sliders, The Sarah Conner Chronicles...and many others I don't feel like googling for. Fuck dollhouse. Bring back Sarah Conner. Never Forget.
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Sep 26, 2009 2:51:32 PM CDT
I miss TGIF on Fridays and Walker Texas Ranger on Saturdays
by juansanchez
Walker was hilarious and you know it.
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Oh well, at least Clone Wars will be on in a few weeks.
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This makes for great reading. But still, it doesn't ease the pain.
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Those guys could use the work.
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That show stunk ass.
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People are still angry about the cancellation because it really hit its stride the last few episodes. By the time it was awesome it was too late. Once it realized its potential, it was a very good show which unfortunately ended on a cliffhanger.
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Just another show for that ridiculously sexy piece of ass Summer Glau to put on her growing list of canceled shows. Who cares. Putting television on Friday for any show is a giant mistake, no matter what. The only show is ever worked for was Battlestar, and thats because nerds are fucking loyal to quality.
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who talk to the dead, though.
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Season 2 was a bit sluggish in parts but it really picked up steam in the 2nd half, ending fantastically with John jumping into the future in the final episode. Then those short sighted idiots at Fox cut it down before what would have been its breakout season.
Besides, even in the most slow moving episodes Cyborg Glau was always worth watching, Dekker was massively underrated as john and because well...goddamn Garret Dillahunt was in it. -
Who's surprised these shows (Smallville and Dollhouse in particular) took a ratings dive by moving to Friday's? Hopefully Fox expected this and if Dollhouse continues to improve it'll pick them up for a 3rd season. If they didn't expect this, they're idiots but we already knew that didn't we? Looks like this is indeed Smallville's last season.
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But they should move Smalliville to Wed. Now that they have cancelled that Ashton Kutcher Model Drama show. Doesn't really fit with Top Model though, but it's better than Friday Death.
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Nah. That would make sense.
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Sep 26, 2009 3:49:47 PM CDT
I thought SCC hit its stride at the end of the first season
by lockesbrokenleg
But the second season ground it to a screeching halt.
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There is some good stuff in it but too much boring stuff.
Get. Fucking. Moving. -
Where they will blame everything but Whedon for this bomb. Whedon's stuff has always been a niche/cult market. Even if this show was on the CW or cable a 1.0 rating would be very hard to justify a full season much less a third. Unless there is a decent upspike on ratings or the dvd sales were through the roof I doubt this thing will be around past November.
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Unfortunately most people missed what had to be the best season premier the show has ever had...it actually went heavier on effects than it usually does. Could that mean they have a bigger budget, and if so why do that then move it?? It has consistently been the most stable show on the Network and gets dumped in the "old fart" time slot! Hopefully they'll move it at least to Sunday night to pick the viewers back up!
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Sep 26, 2009 4:33:45 PM CDT
I just hope that if this is the last season of Smallville...
by nasty in the pasty
...that they'll finally allow Clark to definatively fly and wear the classic suit. I kind of like the low-rent "costume" he's wearing now (it makes sense that he'd go through several different versions of the suit before settling on the classic version), but he NEEDS to wear the red & blue suit by the end (even if it's in just the last shot of the final episode). The only problem is the show's F/X budget has gotten pitifully thin by now, thanks to seemingly two-thirds of each episode's budget going directly into lining Tom Welling's pockets. Even up through season five, we got some pretty impressive effects for TV, but each subsequescent season looks cheaper than the last (the Metropolis flyovers look like video game cut scenes). Don't try for a tenth season and let the budget shrink even more...save those pennies for a truly lavish series finale come May and let loyal series fans remember the show fondly.
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Then how come The Brady Bunch, The Patridge Family, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Miami Vice, The Dukes of Hazzard, Dallas, Falcon Crest, Family Matters, The Incredible Hulk, Picket Fences, Ghost Whisperer, Numbers, Flashpoint, Law & Order: SVU, Providence, Reba, The X-Files, Nash Bridges, Sanford and Son, Las Vegas, Perfect Strangers, Full House, Family Matters, 20/20, Matt Houston, Dinosaurs, Step by Step, Boy Meets World, Just the Ten of Us, Mr. Belvedere, Hangin with Mr. Cooper all survived for more than one season on Friday. And some of these shows had their entire run on Friday nights, including dominating the top 10 (like Dallas and The Dukes of Hazzard). Today's TV has more options and more channels to give people even more reason to stay in on Fridays. They stayed in to watch these shows. How come now all of a sudden all of these people are "going out?"
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The effects were ambitious but really fake looking and the last season recap made my head hurt so I just gave up.
This has been on the air for 9 years. Enough already with the no costume stuff, just go for it. -
Hate to break it to you guys but Smackdown has continued to be (far and away) the #1 show on Friday nights. The CW was foolish when they let that show go to MyNetwork and instead stuck with Smallville. Say what you want about the product, it pulls in serious ratings, and is probably the only reason the awful MyNetwork is still around.
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Indy collector, you do realize half that list didn't make it to a third season and the others were moved to different nights. Granted in the 80s CBS has a deathlock on Fridays, then in the 90s ABC got a hold of the family night marketing. After that most shows don't survive on Fridays. It has more to do with more channels, the internet and as well as a generation that can DVR or go online to catch up on shows then ever before.
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but things change. Before VCRs if you wanted to see a show you had to stay home to watch it. Then go out after (or go home if you were watching with friends, neighbours). Even after VCRs were in every household, you could record only so much on one tape, and only one thing at a time. Still had to be very economical about what you recorded versus what you watched live. But now, with PVRs, people have more freedom to set what one wants to record across multiple channels and times, go to work, go out after, come home late, and watch it whenever. Plus, with the internet, time-shifting, on-demand, and DVDs of pretty much every show made these days, there is little incentive for someone to stay home to catch a show. Sure, there are still some shows that get decent ratings on Friday night, but those are the people who, despite the many options they have, decided "I'm gonna stay home and watch this show". Getting a 2.5 will win you the night these days, but it's not exactly an impressive number.
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I've stuck with the show for 9 years, but I found the premiere... eh. The yellow-tinted manor scenes: it was hard to tell who was on who's side, or why Zod's two cadets decided to turn against him, or why Tess decided to strangle Tess. The failure to tell anyone who Zod is and why he's so important. The big supposed appeal of bringing in (yet another remastered) Superman villain but not even giving his name until the last few minutes. The hinting at a mystery (1 year to destruction) that both ripped off Flash Forward and was presented in a rather muddled manner. Having a show with a super-powered Clark and then stripping him of his powers to fight a ninja. (Maybe it was supposed to show how we now such a great Jor-El-trained fighter, but it didn't come across that way.) Lois getting yet another romantic interest/stalker. The whole "Oh he must be a cop" thing with Lois and Corben on the subway train, which just made it confusing for the audience later because we think he's a cop too. There were good moments (almost all involving Allison Mack, although Durance actually had a couple of decent scenes), but it flowed badly and didn't really come together.
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is just not something most people will watch. We can get hot women on the internet to look at. I still claim that only hardcore Whedonites love it and support it. It's as though all of geekdom must worship everything he does. I like Star Wars more than a grown man should, but I know Lucas and company have flaws. It seems those same flaws are in Whedon but the Kool Aid drinkers stand by him. Heck, even Buffy and Angel had flaws. Plus, Firefly wasn't the Second coming. It was a western in space..kind of like Star Trek, Star Wars, Flash Gordon, tons of comics, etc.
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Sorry, "Tess decided to strangle Zod." Callum Blue's performance wasn't bad, but it just came out of left field. The main problem is there's just too much stuff on Fridays. You've got Smallville, Dollhouse, and Medium (plus Smallville was up against an encore of Flash Forward premiere). Next week we get the new Stargate. You had, and will have, four genre shows crammed into two hours. It's just too competitive a time slot for the same type of viewers.
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Are you seriously comparing the Partridge family and the Brady Bunch from the early seventies to Friday night shows in the 21st century??? Then your entire list mostly consists of 1/2 hour comedies, news and detective shows! Smart programmers know where their audiences are, and the mostly young Smallville demographic is not in front of the tv at 7pm on Friday! BTW...1/2 hour comedies have almost NO budget for production other than salaries. You can't seriously compare a show from 2009 to anything before the 90's because cable channels didn't produce original series programming. And shows that start off on Friday have nowhere to go but up...think about it. The successful Friday night shows never were on another night for any considerable length of time, if any. Also...advertisers don't want TIVO viewers...they want eyes on the tv during the original program air time because that is the ONLY time their commercials get viewed. Maybe the CW is trying to break into another market with Friday night viewing, but the idiots shouldn't start doing it with a show that only has at the most 2 seasons left! Sunday night would be great if they are dead set in keeping the Vampire show where it is, and now there is a Wed. night opening, so they could move it if they were smart enough...but so far there haven't been any signs of life!
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i know thats how roddenbery pitched it or whatever but seriously, what about it was comparable to westerns? at least in the case of firely, it literally was that so it made sense to call it such.
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I liked the discolored scenes...the whole point of the introduction of these characters with Tess is that you don't know who is on who's side. The screen tint helped keep everyone's agenda in the dark. You don't know what Mercy's plan/agenda is, or if she even knows. The battle in the barn could have been done different, but it wasn't bad. Green Arrow's storyline is good, and Lois' acting was better. Also, the whole point in the way they introduced Corben was so you wouldn't know who he was from the beginning. Figuring out who the characters are (Corben, Zod, etc..) are half the show. Who knows every single character as soon as they walk on screen? I thought the premier opened up a lot of great new storylines.
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then it would apply to every other night of the week. People are watching then. Sure I can compare successful Friday shows of the past to the present. Why not? "Going out" existed just as much in the 70s as it does now. The list I provided is a wide variety of genres that succeeded to some degree on Friday night. If you're just bitching because "geek" shows don't do well then that is an even bigger piss-poor argument. We all know geeks aren't going out on Fridays. And my list consists of mostly 1/2 hour comedies, news and detective shows? What the HELL are you talking about? I listed ONE news program. ONE! Dallas - not a comedy or detective show. The Dukes of Hazzard - more comedy adventure but certainly not a situation comedy as you implied. Falcon Crest - not a comedy or detective show. Ghost Whisperer - not a comedy or detective show. Picket Fences - not a comedy or detective show. The Incredible Hulk - not a comedy or detective. Providence - not a comedy or detective show. I like how you fags claim my list is mostly this or mostly that. Did you even read it?
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Star Trek is a western in the sense of going into a new place and carving out a living or spread of an idea. It might be a stretch, but Star Trek does have the good guys, bad guys and people not part of the norm (the Federation). I liked Firefly, but it seemed to be a mix of Star Trek and Star Wars. Again, people jump on Lucas and Star Wars when Whedon takes lots of inspiration from other places and people see it as new and original.
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Star Trek is a western in the sense of going into a new place and carving out a living or spread of an idea. It might be a stretch, but Star Trek does have the good guys, bad guys and people not part of the norm (the Federation). I liked Firefly, but it seemed to be a mix of Star Trek and Star Wars. Again, people jump on Lucas and Star Wars when Whedon takes lots of inspiration from other places and people see it as new and original.
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I'm a fan of the show and I know all that. But you can't have it both ways: they tell you who Zod is 60 seconds after he appears, but they conceal Corben's identity until the last five minutes. Problem is, no show can sustain itself just on fans of the show. Old viewers often leave. You need to keep stuff coming in. From a new viewer point of view, the season 9 premiere was an impenetrable mess.
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These shows will look fine in the Live+ DVR ratings. DVRs saved Dollhouse
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IndyCollector obviously doesn't know what the word "mostly" means. And your ability to spout off the Friday night line up for the last 30 or 40 years also speaks volumes of why you seem to take this so personally. The 3 genres I listed covered 21 of the shows you mentioned...thus the word "mostly". Sorry I didn't mention the old fart night time soap operas you listed (Falcon Crest...wtf???) Why the hell do you think Friday nights hardly ever have these types of shows? Because the demographic ISN'T WATCHING! You have to be an idiot to see the numbers right in front of you with almost half the viewers gone and somehow think half the viewers all decided at the same time to watch Ghost Whisperer! The show averaged 3.5 to 4 million viewers consistently while going against Survivor for 8 years...what idiot argues numbers like that? Sorry that your mom has control of the remote on Friday nights and forces you to watch these other shows, but wake up into the present and realize what's in front of everyone's face other than your mom's ass! And thanks for bringing the word "fag" back into circulation...hadn't heard that one since the eighties either...along with all those shows you have recorded in your creepy basement you haven't crawled out of on weekends for the last 40 years!
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Joss wasn't taking inspiration from Star Wars or Star Trek for Firefly; that shit was straight-up Cowboy Bebop. If you're gonna' accuse the man of plagerism in the first place at least get his source right.
That's not to say Firefly isn't still a wonderful show, very well written and completely it's own creation. Sure, he drew a lot of inspiration from Bebop. A lot of the things in his 'world' were similar. But that's like saying any fantasy writer after Tolkien is stealing from ole' J.R.R. hisself because they share a similar genre, environment or story seeds. We live in post-modern society (and even saying that phrase has become sort of post-modern), so any idea has been done IN SOME WAY before. Doesn't mean you can't put your own original spin on it. Look at any genre, and it's the same. The genre in this case just happens to be western space opera. Or Cowboys in Space, whichever suits your fancy better. -
that is. Stupid lack of spelling skills.
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Just saying it isn't the greatest thing in the world. Most of the genre loving sort would eat this guys shit if he wanted. That's what I have a problem with. The whole cult of Whedon, the "Joss Whedon is my new master" shirts and the hero worship for a guy that just writes jokes and weaves it around hot girls. I love hot girls and witty banter, but it doesn't take a genius to do that. However, Cowboy Bebop is really good and I do love it, especially the soundtrack. Now, you can't tell me the whole rebellion against the establishment doesn't sound a bit like Star Wars. I mean would the Serenity have to blow up the death star for people to see that. Then people would say how original Joss does it again. The man is a pariah to the scifi genre. Don't let me get started on his shitty late X-Men comics that everyone loved so much.
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the show does need to pick up new viewers, but a premier that is tying up loose ends from a finale never is the place to start. Maybe that's why I never could get into Lost. It's wildly successful and I didn't have a clue what was going on when I started watching at the first of season 2. At least the Superman story has been done enough that the characters should be a little familiar when they appear. But, the show never has been the best with its continuity, that happens when you have different writers for every few episodes. Also a big mistake in last night's show was the newspaper's date Lois looked at in the train. The accident supposedly happened the night before a couple of hours before midnight, and she picks up the same day's newspaper in the wreckage from the night before? There's a sloppy writing moment for you! But overall the show is better than half the crap on tv...very creative for an age-old story base.
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Does that bother you OldSchoolFan? Are you "offended?" What show are you talking about that went against Survivor? Ghost Whisperer? And that's my point, FAGGOT. TV homos need to stick with what has worked, shows not geared toward the "going out and drinking" crowd.
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I swear if you fuckers don't start watching Dollhouse, I'm coming to your house (yes, I know some of you Internet Tough Guys(TM) are armed..shudder..) and programming your Tivos. Not just to assure Dollhouse is recorded and watched, but also that any and all recordings of wrestling and or metalphag (fuck off, slayershirt) music of any kind is erased and blocked. I will also eat all of your cookies. EVEN the sucky ones. I suggest paying your ADT bills now in lieu of any outstanding mortgages or other ponzi schemes/pyramid scams.
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..."Star Wars" inspired "Serenity/Firefly"...but Lucas has still failed to admit that he stole Star Wars from "Space Cruiser Yamato"/"Star Blazers"
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Nope, not watching Dollhouse. There is no need since real porn is online and I can find out about the mediocrity of Joss Whedon from his many fans. It seems he is like Thulsa Doom in his cult like following. Or Imhotep. Hey Whedon can rip off fantasy and old school horror next. Can anyone else see the Bride of Frankenstein speaking in young girl dialects? Quick we need our savior Whedon to fix everything Sheesh.
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I see your point about Yamato. I'd give my right eye for some Star Blazers on DVD. New anime is really stale to me and crazy yaoi fangirls ruined the rest.
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On that note, I mean Lucas has Lucasfilm and Lucas Arts, but every flippin' thing Whedon does goes into this one writer universe. I bet there are a lot of tampons for the Whedon verse. Bleeds a lot there.
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what they don't want to believe...no matter how black and white it is. And the fact you're wondering if I'm offended you called a stranger a fag before you defended your mother tells me where the truth hits. NO YOU IDIOT...Ghost Whisperer isn't on opposite Survivor...Smallville was...try to keep up. Ghost Whisperer is one of your Friday night favorites that you just listed. But now I realize why so many 1/2 hr sitcoms were listed...because you don't have a long enough attention span to keep track of what you just wrote 30 minutes ago! And yes, the "going out and drinking" crowd are actually the people that get out and spend money on what the advertisers are trying to sell! Not a whole lot of advertisers are buying prime time advertising space for weirdos locked in their basement watching porn and reading comics all weekend!
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Many are zealots. I found-out, by pointing-out the flaws in his writing, and was banned from a couple of pro Whedon web sites, cyber stalked, and just plain verbally beaten-up...a lot, by Joss' other fans--and BTW, I am a huge Joss fan, and a student of his work, but when he is wrong, he is wrong--and I say it!!! When debating other whedon fans, you get blasted for having a mind of your own, called crazy, and other mean names, for having an opposing opinion to the gospel, which is; Joss can do no wrong??? Well, Dollhouse is a mess that is going to get cancelled very soon. My story outline, that I wrote, suggesting a new path for Dollhouse...easily bests Joss' own work on the series...as it gave the characters a linear path...and an easy to understand narrative, while delivering heroine with conscious mind, whom you could follow every week...and get to know...and root for, and villains you can root against--something the show still doesn't have, despite me pointing this problem out, for well over a year now, even before it debuted on TV? The show more than deserves to get cancelled at this point!!!
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I do agree with you. When Joss Whedon gets it wrong, he gets it wrong. That in no way takes away from his talent though. No one can be on their A game all the time. And even if you are, you may still have some missed. And I kind of agree with you on Dollhouse. I don't think it's a mess. I think it's cookie dough that's not done yet, and the oven is on low. I just saw Epipath One today. That episode really would have set the tone and direction for the series. Instead we're seeing it play out slowly. It shouldn't be canceled because the show does have promise.
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I'm not surprised by these numbers at all.
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Sep 26, 2009 7:13:52 PM CDT
Smallville isn't mentioned anywhere in this post you made,
by indycollector
mother fucker. How am I supposed to know what the fuck you're talking about? "IndyCollector obviously doesn't know what the word "mostly" means. And your ability to spout off the Friday night line up for the last 30 or 40 years also speaks volumes of why you seem to take this so personally. The 3 genres I listed covered 21 of the shows you mentioned...thus the word "mostly". Sorry I didn't mention the old fart night time soap operas you listed (Falcon Crest...wtf???) Why the hell do you think Friday nights hardly ever have these types of shows? Because the demographic ISN'T WATCHING! You have to be an idiot to see the numbers right in front of you with almost half the viewers gone and somehow think half the viewers all decided at the same time to watch Ghost Whisperer! The show averaged 3.5 to 4 million viewers consistently while going against Survivor for 8 years...what idiot argues numbers like that? Sorry that your mom has control of the remote on Friday nights and forces you to watch these other shows, but wake up into the present and realize what's in front of everyone's face other than your mom's ass! And thanks for bringing the word "fag" back into circulation...hadn't heard that one since the eighties either...along with all those shows you have recorded in your creepy basement you haven't crawled out of on weekends for the last 40 years!"
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I know about "Flash Gordon"...and "Dam Busters", "Silent Running" and "The Hidden Fortress", but information about Lucas stealing character designs and the production design of the movie came-up in a infamous lawsuit which Lucas filed against Glen Larson...claiming that Larson ripped-off "Battlestar Galactica" from "Star Wars". Well, as you know...Larson's lead Special Effects designer and his Production designer, were Lucas' lead Effects and Production designers--so Larson was privy to inside information from them. Anyhow, he contacted the creator of Yamato who backed him-up on his story, that both he...that being Larson...and Lucas, ripped-off "Space Cruiser Yamato" to create Galactica and Star Wars, respectively. The only reason that the creator of Yamato didn't sue, and I read an expansive magazine article quoting him on this--is because it is considered to be dishonorable to sue a person for plagiarism in Japan, according to their honor (code) system--the same reasom why the creators of "Kimba: The White Lion", didn't sue Disney over "The Lion King". BTW, George Lucas was seen in Japan in 1974 viewing Anime shows and movies like Yamato.
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...but I guess I am just very frustrated by him? He is a good man, and a genius, though somehow, he doesn't understand the cloak and dagger genre--which "Dollhouse" is attempting to be a part of???
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Fair enough. That still doesn't get Whedon off the hook for not putting his work out on time (X-Men as late and people still kissed his ass) and basically making all of his characters the same stereotype. Whedon takes his same ideas and places them in a different genre setting. I agree with you about Lucas and Yamato I do, but Whedon does the same thing in regards to characters like Wonder Woman and other strong female characters. He never talks about the inspiration for Buffy or Dollhouse. People call Lucas a hack, fair enough, but he does give credit to others now (Zahn, etc.). Whedon is not the be all end all of comics, scifi, and fantasy, he's just another writer that lives off of his ego and geek cred which in this writer's opinion he has none of.
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My first post started the whole Smallville on Friday night issue I've been talking to you about! If you can keep your hand off your dick long enough to move your cursor a few posts up! Since you probably can't...here it is:
Sep 26th, 2009
05:07:16 PM
Are you seriously comparing the Partridge family and the Brady Bunch from the early seventies to Friday night shows in the 21st century??? Then your entire list mostly consists of 1/2 hour comedies, news and detective shows! Smart programmers know where their audiences are, and the mostly young Smallville demographic is not in front of the tv at 7pm on Friday! BTW...1/2 hour comedies have almost NO budget for production other than salaries. You can't seriously compare a show from 2009 to anything before the 90's because cable channels didn't produce original series programming. And shows that start off on Friday have nowhere to go but up...think about it. The successful Friday night shows never were on another night for any considerable length of time, if any. Also...advertisers don't want TIVO viewers...they want eyes on the tv during the original program air time because that is the ONLY time their commercials get viewed. Maybe the CW is trying to break into another market with Friday night viewing, but the idiots shouldn't start doing it with a show that only has at the most 2 seasons left! Sunday night would be great if they are dead set in keeping the Vampire show where it is, and now there is a Wed. night opening, so they could move it if they were smart enough...but so far there haven't been any signs of life! -
I don't claim to be any sort of Whedon Apologist. I will say that I thought Buffy/Angel was amazing, in its character creation, ongoing storyline and continuity, and overall effect as a television show. I thought Firefly had the same potential but got canned too early (and I was actually enjoying Firefly more than Buffy/Angel). I found Dr. Horrible to have wonderful music, much humor and pathos and to be an intriguing take on the superhero genre coming in from the side. And I thoroughly enjoyed his run on Astonishing X-Men. So, why wouldn't I want to try something new he's made? If I liked all the other stuff, does that make me his willing servant? That's what I don't understand about this talk of Whedon fanatacism. Eveyone has fans. Maybe that just means they're, I dunno, good? But for some reason, enjoying the work of Joss Whedon and proclaiming that you DO like his work, brands you as a crazy nut-bar Whedon 'SUPPORTER' (said with the same tone as someone talking of a Nazi 'SUPPORTER').
Let me put it this way, and even equate it to Nerd-lingo and not try to break this into mainstream pop culture, because I know a large part of everyone's 'fanatacism' comes from our being obsessive nerds and geeks (let's admit it, we're in good company). So say:
I read the comic book 'Sandman.' I enjoy it. I find it to be funny and touching and pretty. I read the novel 'American Gods.' I enjoy it. I find it moving and interesting and meticulously well written. I read 'NeverWhere' and '1602' and 'Good Omens,' and I like all of them. And I notice that they all have the same writer, one Neil Gaiman. THEN I hear there's a new novel coming out called 'Anansi Boys' that is written by Neil Gaiman. Am I a goose-stepping, yes-manning nut-job fanboy because I want to read that novel? Or am I simply following my instincts? This guy has written some stuff I've enjoyed, I'll probably enjoy this too
I simply don't see why everyone comes down so hard on the Whedon fan. I don't worship everything he does, but most of the things he's done I enjoyed. I'll be the very first to admit there are MAAAAANY problems with Dollhouse *coughDushkucough*, but I guess I see a lot of other things I enjoy and am enjoying the more I watch. I almost gave completely up on it, then half-way through S1 it caught my attention again. Then 'Briar Rose' and 'Omega' and 'Epitaph One', and now I'm hooked again. Because it's good. Not because it's Joss Whedon. -
since all of his dialogue is one liners and trying to be witty all of the time. Buffy was nothing but a cliche of a watered down feminist idea, but done by a man claiming to know about women.
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would have sucked. The character sucks. Sorry, not my favorite. Marvel man at heart.
One liners are funny. And yes, he's a witty little sonofabitch. Sometimes that wit DOES fall flat on it's proverbial face, but who's perfect? Would you prefer he have verbose sections of dialogue ala Tarantino or repetitive conversations like Mamet? What is your definition of 'good writing', if 'wit' is a bad thing.
I'm a man, and I loved Buffy/Angel. And honestly, most of the other fans of that show I personally know? They're ladies. So if Whedon doesn't actually know anything about women, I guess he pulled the wool over THEIR eyes but good. -
But I find it hillarious that it attracts the same number of viewers as your usual CW show. Hell, more people watched the third Supernatural episode on a tiny network, than the season premiere of a pedigree WHEDON! show on the mighty FOX. Serves them right, Dollhouse had lots of potential, but they make every single bad decision they can. (Different pilot, not showing Epitath One, letting Acker go, recruiting again from the "Whedon acting pool", poorly concieved filler episodes, unlikable cast, helpless billionaire of the week, too much mystery in the way of character development etc.) The main idea is solid, there is some cleverness to be found in there, but it just bleeds from way too many wounds. :(
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hit the nail on the head of what is wrong with this show. Except, I will argue, the Whedon acting pool. Why you gotta' hate on Alexis Denisof and Summer Glau? They's got the goods, I tells ya!
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like paprika must be used sparingly. Anyway, I love Marvel too, but I'm a DC fan too. I would like to see more one liners from the friendly neighborhood Spider-man myself. Those should work. See, I like the newest Spider-man arc because it reminds me of the character from my youth, in a word a smart ass when he puts that mask on. Anyway, I liked Angel and Buffy too, but it wasn't the greatest thing ever. I am a Tarantino fan, proud of it. Is he long winded oh yes. Mamet just hurts me hehe. I'm just saying that Whedon spoon feeds his fans. He knows women like Buffy, give them more of the kick ass girl fighting. He makes characters change sexual preference at will. Makes everyone know what to say at the exact moment and still be fabulous at it. It's like he tries to fit every idea he's ever had in one show, continuously.
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Can't put your friends in every script.
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Such a great actor, but I've only seen him in two shows since Angel: How I met your mother and Dollhouse. One starring his wife, another one ran by Whedon. It gives such a slimy impression. He seems to only appear in shows where he's surrounded by familiar people. Friends. Seems lazy as fuck. I don't knwow much about the guy, but he should have an amazing carreer by now, but instead he just takes the easiest jobs coming his way.
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Many series I love have unwatchable first seasons. Babylon 5, Buffy, Supernatural have mostly crap first seasons with a few extreme peaks promising better things to come. Dollhouse had a pretty bad first season, but not as bad as those. Yet it didn't have such high points either. The Alpha crap ended up ridicolous, and Epitath one was cool, but when your shows best ep barely features your characters and the set up, you have some serious problems. But I will never understand fan mentality and the loyalty towards certain creators, showrunners, writers I see here. Whedon is pretty adept in his job, we know that, but if his monkey fans apploud with such a cheer every mediocre thing he does, he'll never deliver like the hungry young man who gave us Buffy and Firefly. "Herc Declares Dollhouse the most improved series..." bla bla bla, real shock here. You guys are hurint the guys work and carreer a lot more than you imagine. Doctor Horrible was a cute online effort, nothing more nothing less, but the press it gets at places like this, say "Don't try that much, we looove everything you do! Sure end the Dollhouse season premiere with a fight scene from the A-team with the main bad guy escaping with a car from the scene making goofy faces. WE LOVE IT! Hell throw in a freeze frame ending while your at it!"
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Maybe he's just had bad luck finding parts. And he had to deal with Bell's Palsy for a long time too.
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That is a perfect example of how everyone worships this guy and think his pee tastes like sweet tea. It's quaint, nothing more nothing less. Plus, I may be wrong, but did he write this during the writer's strike? If so, should he have been with his fellow writers? Either way, Doctor Horrible isn't anything special. Again, one liners and the whole whoa is me, girls hate me. Boring! As for Supernatural I love that show. It is perfect to just watch with little or no backstory needed. I wish there were more shows like this.
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There is a reason many of us brand them fanatics and cult members. Whedon is a good writer and producer. Buffy and Angel were good shows which took from shows before them and improved on them. He is great at keeping his shows afloat and is very talented. The problem comes with the people that proclaim him a genius and god capable of no wrong and then talking down to everyone else that disagrees with them by saying "you just dont get it" or "you dont understand his genius". To them nothing else compares to Whedon perfection and they will do anything they can to marginalize the competition. Perfect example of this is Supernatural. Supernatural is just as worthy as any Whedon product of getting a talkback. But since its not Whedon the Supernatural fans get banished to the Zone ghetto. Another thing that bothers me is how the Whedonites try and spin everything to make it seem that he is more popular then he really is. His shows were never mainstream. They have a very motivated fan base but they were always small. Look at the ratings of those shows. They were never blockbusters but you cant tell a Whedonite that. There are alot of artists I think highly of. There are few people who's work I enjoy more then Christoper Nolan and Eric Kripke but I dont worship them and I am certainly not going to say Supernatural is the most successful show on television or go to Kripkesque.com to learn what he wants me to think for the week. To sum up Whedonites and fans of Whedons work are two different animals.
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ANOTHER FUCKING TALKBACK RECYCLING THE SAME FUCKING YAY WHEDON/FUCK WHEDON SCHTICK THAT'S BEEN FUCKING BLATHERED ON AND ON AND FUCKING ON AD NAUSEAM FOR FUCKING YEARS ON THIS FUCKING SITE! IT'S JUST SO INTERESTING!!!!
Seriously, all of you fucking need to kill yourselves. -
Did a voice role in 2006 for "Justice League" and guested on "Private Practice" in 2008, besides HIMYM and now DH. Since Alyson gave birth in March and returned to work, he's been mostly taking care of their daughter. Just my speculation, but I'm guessing he's been happy as a househubby. Hey, more power to him, LOL. I am glad to see him on Dollhouse.
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Fair assessment. If they're bringing it on themselves, I get that. Thank you for the insight, sir.
PS: Supernatural IS wonderful! I'm working through S4 right now. -
Yo momma'.
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Yeah, I'm a fan. An apologist? No. I have no problem saying I disagree with a story choice. I watched BTVS for basically everything NOT Buffy. Angel's the better show IMO. But I've never hung out at Whedonesque. Not my crowd. A lot easier to find more moderate fans on Livejournal.
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I really enjoyed Smallville last night. Haven't looked in on the fan sites, yet, to see what they think about the day change in practice. That Wed. night 9pm slot might be a good thing if the season is going to follow the darker tone they seem to be hinting at. More leeway the later you go. The CW shouldn't be so hasty with TBL, though...I've seen it and a little of Melrose Place, and MP is terribly acted by half the cast at least. TBL didn't make me eye roll after 5 minutes.
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See thank you kimrae1977 it is good to know there are fans and not cult members wanting Whedon's sperm to create an army of his offspring to write everything. Kudos to you!
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Just one time would make me swoon hehe.
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Pffft! My SO works until 10:30pm on Friday nights, so yeah, I'm not going out. Not that the horrid state of the IT field would let us afford it, anyway. If we see a movie, it's not going to be the $10 ticket price of SoCal weekends!
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Why not? Christopher Guest and Co. do it. M. Night Shamylan does it. The Cohen Bros. do it. Aaron Sorkin does it. David Mamet does it. Hell, Tina Fey does it with the transfer from SNL to 30 Rock. If you have a reliable group of actors who also happen to be your friends, why shouldn't you keep casting them?
And I second kimrae's "Everything NOT Buffy" comment. I need THAT on a t-shirt. -
Sep 26, 2009 8:44:19 PM CDT
Amy Ackers is hot! Have replayed Season 2 premiere 35 times now
by kbarber29
The scene with her and Topher. Can't stop watching her. Holy crap she's hot! My wife agrees!
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Sep 26, 2009 8:44:57 PM CDT
I mean I've replayed the Whiskey-Topher Bed Scene 35 times now.
by kbarber29
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boils down to taste. And I don't mean that in a 'you don't understand it' way. Some people dig his shows. Some people are turned off by them. And that's that. We could sit here all day talking back and forth and giving reasons after reason, but it just gets back to the same thing: Everybody's got different tastes.
It's just when the 'Whedon Faithful' disagree on a moral standpoint and get all haughty, or the Whedon Haters keep throwing 'Joss sux' up as a reason we hit that brick wall. Just admit it, you like it or you don't. Boom. Done. -
You got me on those, but are their other women that can play kick ass females? It's like Hollywood's problem of putting Angelina Jolie and Johny Depp in everything, it is really getting old. It would make me happy to see other actors and actresses in new parts. It was like putting Nathan Fillian (spelling?) in Buffy just because Firefly was canceled. Find some new people and play around with characters.
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Sep 26, 2009 8:50:22 PM CDT
Josstossesthesalad, I have The Comet Empire complete series
by pennsydeux
on DVD. That was the best of the Star Blazers trilogy. Bolar Wars, I haven't seen, but none of the voice actors from CE were on board for that.
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You win the prize! You're right, but I hate to be belittled for my tastes on a personal level, something I hope to never do. I love a lot of non-pc geek things: current Spider-man, Star Wars, comics in general, hate most Marvel movies except for Iron Man and Incredible Hulk, hate Whedon, but we can all agree that we do love genre fiction in some way. However, yaoi and slash fiction should make us all cringe lol.
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am i the only one who think shes ugly?
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I feel the same way, but Dushku has a backside that is mighty nice. I think Meagan Fox is too shiny in her movies. Plus she annoys me.
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Dollhouse is garbage, but Herc wouldn't know since he is too busy going down on Whedon.
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"...then it would apply to every other night of the week."It does. Ratings are generally lower than they were 20, 10, even 5 years ago. Fridays are worse because people tend to go out Friday more than they would any other weekday. And, yes, "going out" existed in the '70s. The difference is, then if you went out you missed your show so you had to decide - stay home and watch maybe go out after, or miss it entirely. Even if one decides not to go out they have more options today in regards to home entertainment. They don't have to watch TV; not exclusive to Friday night, but if one does not have to work the next day it is more likely they will take the extra time to watch a movie, or do something they generally don't have time to do during the week.As for those who don't "go out" on Friday night, all those friendless, dateless geeks who like genre shows, they are most likely the ones, more than any other type of viewer, who will not be watching the show "live". They are too busy playing ODST on their 360, or trying to prove Megan Fox has a penis, to care that it's 9:00 pm, time for their show. They'll continue doing what they are doing safe in the knowledge that their PVR is recording it, or they can get it off Hulu, or they can find another, less legal way, of viewing it at a later date.
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Wow... Oh, and I've got Dollhouse DVR'd and still haven't watched it yet. Not only are people time-shifting shows, but reprioritizing them... I'm pretty much saving Dollhouse til last, and Heroes, only if, I'm deadly bored.
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Joss has been cold of late. His comics minus Angel have been disappointments. Serenity seemed more like fuck you to the fans then a good bye which it should have been. While I like Dollhouse, it can a very confusing and slow show at times. The premiere seemed more focus on getting Amy Acker off the show then establishing the new Echo/Paul relationship. I can understand why people don't like it and are upset with Joss. That being said, I don't think its a complete abomination nor do I feel that everytime we have a talkback when need to hear why that show or movie needs to be cancled, boycotted or just sucks. Good lord, how much negativity can the internet hold.
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...and I found it to be as weak...as you did? So I agree with you! I can't fairly say that all of it was weak, as I don't have all of the copies of his work, but I was very disappointed, nonetheless. Buffy's inspiration was largely The X-Men; Kittie Pryde (spelling?) and the other strong female leads informed the show...and the creation of the Scoobies--Buffy's pals. As well, his late mother--who was a female rights advocate, his wife, Sarah Michelle Gellar, and Marty Nixon...the latter, one of TV Buffy's producers found their way into Buffy...her views, and her personality. I'm sure there are other inspirations...but yes, you are correct, like Lucas, Whedon has not admitted to some of his inspirations--ala, "Joe-90" which he directly stole "Dollhouse" from. BTW...Joe-90 is actually far superior to Dollhouse, as Whedon strayed from the premise, I suspect, so he would not get sued, and ultimately, that has weakened the strength of the material, and greatly.
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It is just good to see the characters again...but the Comet Empire was awesome!!
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Thanks Media Messiah, glad someone else thought those X-Men stories were weak. Truth be told, I always favored Avengers and Fantastic Four to the X-Men anyway. A convoluted plot doesn't translate to a good story. My main gripe with Whedon's book is the same problem I have with Kevin Smith, Warren Ellis, and others is that their books are late. We are supposed to cry in happiness when they grace us with a new comic story since they are doing us a favor. They aren't at all. Put those books on people that will finish their job and make sure it's out on time. How much do you bet they aren't late on their movie and tv scripts? It's lack of respect. For example, the last issue of Planetary was in Previews almost a year after it was supposed to end. No excuses for that. X-Men was the same way and Whedon would laugh about it, pissed me off.
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"the show does need to pick up new viewers, but a premier that is tying up loose ends from a finale never is the place to start." If new viewers aren't going to be attracted to a highly-promoted season premiere (which is going to get more on-air ads then any other episode of the season), when are you going to get them? Which is why you shouldn't set up a premier that way! Not to mention they didn't wrap up anything from last season's finale. We still don't know what happened to Lois, we still don't know who contacted Tess. All the premiere was deepen the mysteries they set up. All the dangling plotlines were wrapped up last season's finale. This one just introduced new and muddled elemets.
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She gets slammed for everything. Her movie bombed. Most geeks on here just hate her because the sad loser girls they know in real life don't measure up.
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Not an opinion. A Fact.
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if she knew me. i probably already had sex with her in an alternate reality
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Why not American Idol, Dancing With The Stars, shows that will hold an audience regardless?
Fridays for any other demographic are just poison. Live with it. -
Let me count the ways. 1) She has not proven to have a stitch of acting talent compared to a wide number of starlets her age. 2) She's pretty average without makeup, so she isn't naturally perfect 3) My GF looks better than she does without makeup, doesn't need it. 4) Megan Fox seems to be as dumb as a bag of hammers. She's fairly inarticulate and doesn't have the brains to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions on the heel. Other than that, she does seem popular among dateless males.
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I remember the "Keanu Reeves as Superman" rumors before Brandon Routh got the part. And in "Matrix Reloaded" Keanu as Neo was flying around, and somebody said he was doing his "Superman" routine. Now on "Smallville," Tom Welling is wearing a slick leather coat, just like Neo... IT'S ALL COMING FULL CIRCLE!
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It seems like like the writers strike never ended with all the lousy premieres this week.
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Sep 27, 2009 1:08:45 AM CDT
Better be careful, Whedon and his followers will get you...
by josstossesthesalad
Speaking of Whedon, why don't people have a nickname for him like they do for George Lucas when they do the whole Luca$$ thing? I could imagine Jasshole Whedon's Shithouse!
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Nothing wrong with hiring family...as long as they pull their own weight, and are not willing to play Yes Men. Joss Whedon seems to have closed his ears, and eyes, to outside opinions that are contrary to constant flattery, and has created his own inner clique, one he can't see outside of (?)--and one that is not giving him the right advice, or at least, advice that he is listening to, if they are? But if his brothers...and his sister in-law could not see the many flaws in Dollhouse, point them out to Joss, and fix them, which should have been a simple fix--well, he shouldn't be working with them...because he hired a group of Yes Men and Yes Women...who, although they can make a set feel warm and fuzzy, are often your worst enemies...as they fail to tell you when you are dancing toward a cliff that you just don't see...in the fog of your own arrogance, or naive glee??? And the same goes for the folks at Whedonesque.com and many other Joss friendly fan sites--they see no flaw in his work, where there is flaw, and Whedon would rather listen to them, and their obsessive cheers, than address the many real problems that have been killing this show?A real shame that this series went-out like this...but it's over???!!! "The Bitch Is Dead!"
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Should be on cable tv, should have Amy Acker in the lead, its never going to be successful on Network TV.
The only Eliza/ Whedon show that would work would be a Faith show. Far from groundbreaking, but a guarnteed decent audience. Eliza has no range in her acting ability, she is hot, athletic etc. She needs to do what she does best and Joss can save his creativity for a real actress like Acker. -
WhadYa expect when the lead in to a season premiere is the formulaic dreck sit-com pilot for a former NFL player.
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femminist. The guy got mad and fired one of his actresses for getting pregnant (Charisma Carpentar) dont belive me go on Youtube she confirms it at a convention. If Whedon is a femminist its only of the young good looking female kind. Old women/ugly women and pregnant women are a huge no no with this guy.
As for his writing well the last 2 yrs of Buffy where shit and Chosen had so many holes you could drive Tanks through.#### Whedons primariy weakness though was he could raise an interesting issue then drop or cop out of it. Both Graduation Day and the Gift raised issues that he immediatly dropped. The only time he followed through was in Becoming and that was in 1998. -
As many have said before should have been renamed to Metropolis 3-4 years ago. TV series should not be longer than 5/6 seasons.
Think Smallville should be a mid season replacement like 24/Lost with 16eps at most. -
the 18-35 demographic are watching media much different compared to the past and older generations, ratings are from a different generation. Just like the movie industry, television industry needs to be more creative and aggressive in their pursuit of revenue.
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I watched last season of Smallville and I didn't know what the fuck was going on during that season premier. This show should have died the minute they were out of high school. When Lex left, I should have left. Oh well. Now I have my Friday nights free.
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still into this shit.
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...I give it a month.
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Sep 27, 2009 6:57:12 AM CDT
You want to know what happens to a toad that's struck by lightni
by nasty in the pasty
The same thing that happens to everything else.
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FIX. THE. FUCKING. SITE. HARRY!
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Sep 27, 2009 8:13:46 AM CDT
Dollhouse isn't perfect... But it's better than formulaic "Mediu
by ebixby
Crack on Dollhouse all you want, but it's a very UNIQUE show when you compare it to the overdone "I SEE DEAD PEOPLE IDEA" The highway to heaven crap is chewed up by fat old christian ladies who are home on a friday night. There are alot more fat old christian ladies than there are sci- fi nerds. Doll house is alot more original or different. No it isn't perfect- the first 6 episodes were pretty bad in fact, but now it's at a level where there's alot to like. If they put the show on on monday, Id definitely watch it over Heroes.
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I will stick with Smallville to the bitter end. I've come to far to give up on it now, but the best show CW ever had and ever will have is Supernatural. This week's episode was fucking fantastic. Any one who is a true horror fan should be loving this show ,and yet it gets no talkback after five kick ass seasons.
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Honestly sir, just shut up. You're coming across as ignorant and homophobic. So you don't like Joss? Why don't you spend a few hours of your day ranting about it, and then make a "I hate Joss" handle for a forum. Oh wait, you already did that.
Relax man, just relax. -
It's not like these all weren't crap shows to begin with. Toe-nail clipping is of more entertainment value than "Smallville."
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First off, I've talked about more than Joss Whedon on here. Second, I just don't think the guy is a good writer and I thought it was funny. If anything I'm guilty of bad taste, not homophobia. If anything Mr. Whedon is homophobic and just places homosexuality in his shows as a matter of fact. With Willow it seems that he needed a gay character so he makes her gay since I guess in his mind, sexual orientation is relative. If you read his comics he plays the homosexuality card with Xander and Dracula too. To be more sensitive and real, make a character gay and then just have them gay, don't make a production about it. Matt Fraction does a much better job with this in X-Men with Northstar than Whedon ever has. By the way, Northstar is a great character. So, am I still homophobic..Sir?
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a death night. Take a hard look at the shows. Many are not just that great of quality. Seriously. There have been some great shows on Friday nights in televison history. Face it. It's true.
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Smallville has been a solid show, and excellent entertainment for 8 seasons. Like other shows, each season has a few poor episodes, but overall for DC/Superman fans, it has been very enjoyable. Don't like it? Watch something else and eat shit, simple as that. Just click the remote. It's easy, really. Get a 4 year old to teach to you how.
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FUCKING MORON AICN TALKBACKERS: ASSFUCKING THAT FUCKING WHEDON LOVE/HATE HORSE SINCE 2001 AND GOING STRONG. Seriously, KILL YOURSELVES. Every fucking 'argument' for/against the guy has ALREADY BEEN TYPED A MILLION FUCKING TIMES. Your "opinions' are UNFUCKINGNECESSARY. ALMOST TEN YEARS NOW. Have you fucking tools never fucking read the fucking talkbacks or are you so fucking delusional that you think people actually give a flying RATFUCK what either side thinks anymore?!?!?
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TWO OF THE MOST HOMO EROTIC SHOWS EVER CREATED. HOW LONG IS TOM WELLING GOING TO STAY IN THE CLOSET? GREAT SHOTS OF HIS BASKET IN THE SEASON PREMIERE. YUM!
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JUST SAYIN...
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
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Oh, wait. I mean, no. Fuck off, Cocksmoking retard.
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Quick, someone on the internet has an opinion, we must destroy it.
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Just sayin'
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I do like to watch most things on television though. Call me old fashioned, but it always looks better on the bigger screen.
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Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I plug my MacBook into our TV and use our little Apple remote. Looks better than Tivo recordings and the ad lengths are just right. It's really a great compromise IF only everything was on it. :P
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Do the programming executives not realize this?
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(that's shortform for JossTossesTheSalad, in case there's confusion)
Sexual orientation, especially in modern society, is a VEEEERY malleable idea. There are many out there who believe you're born liking what you like, and that's that. And granted, there are many people like that out there. But I cannot tell you the amount of friends I've had who have either switched orientation, experiemented with orientation, and everything in between.
Por exemple, one of my best friends is a staunch lesbian; she only likes the ladies and is in fact a devout feminist. BUT, she had a good friend who happened to be a dude, and they hooked up for about six months, not based on the constraits of a labeled sexual orientation, but because of the person he was and how he made her feel. That's all a relationship is, after all. Now, does this mean she was 'acting out of character'? No, after he broke up with her (and not the other way 'round, mind you), she's been dating women.
On the flipside, I have another friend I hadn't seen in a good year or so, who was the straightest girl I'd ever met. BUT, when I had dinner with her the other night, she informs me she's been in a relationship with a woman for a considerable amount of time and now considers herself a lesbian.
People change. Preferances get altered. Saying someone cannot change their orientation is ridiculous. And that shift for Willow was dealt with at length in S4 of BtVS (which, granted, was the worst season anyway). But the simple fact is, sometimes it just happens.
And PS, I love Fraction of Uncanny VERY much, but I can count the pages Northstar's appeared in so far on both hands. He had a nice moment discussing his dislike of being a 'gay mascot' for the SFX-Men, but there really hasn't been that much to him so far. Also granted, Fraction attempting to balance using close to 40 characters in a 22 page monthly comic, but still.
And Northstar's an outed gay man, not a straight woman transitioning to a lesbian lifestyle. They're not the same at all! -
Yo granmama'.
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That Smallville has been going for 9 fucking years now.It should have been a 5-season arc at the most.
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Then Sci Fi moved it to Sunday night, and it almost killed it.
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FFS.
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Geoff Johns' Legion of Super-Heroes episode was one of Season 8's highlights, so I'm really looking forward to his Justice Society episode this year...provided the Wile E. Coyote soooooper-geeeeeenyuses at the CW don't axe the series before then.
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From my experience, women tend to largely choose men through societal expectations, and assimilation--for status, and money...just to fit in to a mold. It's family peer pressure, pressure from one's friends, and work mates, as well as deliberate financial consideration of whom is going to play the bread winner, not with, but, for...them. If a woman feels she needs a man financially, well, she's straight--sexual orientation wise...and if she is in college...and finds that getting dates with the opposite sex...are rare, she then adapts to being gay, or bi-sexual--and if in the workplace...a powerful male, either by way of position, or financial means, comes along--boom, as if by magic, she is suddenly straight again...and ready to date, marry, and and have babies with him, or play his bi-sexual plaything to satify his fantasies of having multiple sexual partners; however, if a powerful female comes along instead, who is either the boss, has a good job, or is simply wealthy, or famous, bam...most any woman out there...instantly, and conveniently adapts, and is willing to proclaim herself gay, or gay again? For women, it's about building a nest with whomever is within their social sphere of influence, a person whom happens to be in a better financial situation than them. In other words, they are looking to nest with the leader of the herd, or whom represents a leader in that herd...once more, within her social group.Now, this may sound biased, but scientists have actually done studies on this...and have found that women's loyalties shift like the wind, with their menstrual cycles, as well, as shifting when it comes to the wealth, or lack there of, of their mates. Look for a study called "The Marylin Monroe Syndrome", it's a study that was completed about 2 years ago, where scientists found that there is a number of women who may be with a good mate, who is a good lover, a good provider, kind, and someone who meets all of their needs... perfectly, or as near perfect, as you can get, and they will leave that partner if someone else comes along with more financial resources--period? These women will then repeat the same process, over...and over again, emotional, moral, and mental quality of a mate, not important. Also, there is a study that says that most women...including rich women, will not date a man who earns less money than them. And lastly, there is another study which states that women, in general, will sleep with anyone, regardless of their commitments, throughout a largely one day period during their monthly menstrual cycle where they feel a heightened instinctive need to produce children. Meaning, any man...who manages to approuch them during that appex point, no matter how aggressive your come on to them, can easily get females into bed--no condoms necessary, and nothing is forbidden. Your looks won't matter, your lack of money, your sexual history, your STD status--nothing--as it is all about the sex, and procreation. I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to.Women have no loyalty to any lover or spouse--it is all about the survival instinct; building a nest, personal survival, and the survival of that nest, that she has built, or intends too build, consciously, or subconsciously. I don't know if I will ever fully trust my heart to a women again after what I have experienced over the last year...plus, and these studies, which I bookmarked in my head, upon hearing them...now make perfect sense--as they apply to most, if not, all women. With this in mind, any man who is thinking about getting married without a pre-nuptial agreement is a fool. Why? The only thing women appear to respect in this equation, is who holds the wealth, and who controls the wallet. If it is you, being the man--they don't dare screw-up, unless they have found somebody with more money who is willing to take care of them, but if you are financial equals in a relationship, or you happen to lose your job...as a man, or your title, they will disrespect you, and ultimately, leave you, every...time! Damn loyalty, damn love--you are nothing but a paycheck...and the provider of a house...to them!!! That is just another cold equation of life.
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Good Gods, that show turned shitty.
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FASCINATING.
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Sorry you had to go thru that with a woman, but, you have gained great wisdom, grasshopper...All women are whores...Except our mom's, of course...
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...a false one!!! I told the truth, of what reality is. Humans are no different than spiders or bears. The female mates with the male, and has no more use for him. That is just a fact--look at the divorce rate. And let me tell you, they are now saying that divorces are down 45% from last year. Do you know why? Because those who wish to divorce can't afford it, other than that, those that same 45% would be getting a divorce right now. Marriage was created for people who wheren't expected to live long, hence the reason why just a few hundred years ago, children were encouraged to marry in their early teens, as by their middle age, or earlier, most were dead, and a husband often had two or three wives, in a lifetime...as so many women would die in child birth, or as a complication of child birth. Now that humans are living longer, and we have methods of birth control, there is no more need for marriage--and if you do get married, get that pre-nup or it is you perverbial ass!!!Hey, the truth hurts, but it is still the truth! People are as loyal as their opportunities.
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Males are hard wired to spread their seed in as many recepticals as possible to ensure survival of the species...Thats why we cheat...In a man with a healthy hormone system, sex is more important than self preservation...
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Sorry to say it, but, many guys on these message boards told me of this, and I was in full, and complete, denial, until I witnessed it for myself--when a women threw me under the damn bus...and went on with her life, smiling with another man--all for money. I saw the same happen to my brother...when his wife betrayed him. They hit some financial problems, and after he bought her her Master's Degree and fully paid for it, she started openly acting-up. No loyalty, no thank you's, it is just a "What have you done for me lately?", attitude..."And, maybe I should consider my options?". Get a pre-nup guys!!! Remember, they are going to get you with child support anyway, so the only way you can get, and maintain control, and preserve your self respect, is to get a pre-nup; it's the only thing that will keep a women on her...next to best behavior. Oh, and get something in writing that says that the only woman that can pull you off of life support, is your mother--as your wife will happly pull the plug--and run off with the first Tom, Dick, Harry, or Jenny...that comes along!!!
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...the only problem is, that I was raised to be different, so I was always very loyal and good to women--however, I found-out that, that was a mistake, and that I have been lied to. Women are just men with boobs, and with smaller dicks, called clits.
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it's a hard lesson to have to learn...My next pre-nuptial will be arranged so that I get half of her financial empire if I cheat on her and she isn't cool with it...I will only marry incredibly rich women from here on out...
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Sorry for the typo!!!
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no reason to appologize...
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A divorce court judge can force you to sell your pre-existing assets, those you had before the marriage, to satisfy any divorce settlement you have with your lady--so make sure your pre-nup says that you leave the marriage with your stuff...and she leaves with her's...that is, if you are the financial bread winner, or you are both financial equals, in the relatonship. With such an arrangement over a woman's head, she'll think twice, and then three times, before deciding to stab you in the back.
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I just watched the season premiere and it was amazingly bad television. It plays like some fanfic material- the only person putting any genuine emotion into her work is Allison Mack. That girl should get at least 50% of the DVD sales revenue for the show because she IS the show. Tom Welling is a piece of wood up there. I miss the old show, with Kristen Kreuk and Rosenbaum-- that was a good mix of characters. What they have now is simple remnants of a TV show.
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looking forward to more.
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...IS THE RESULT OF THE REMOTE CONTROL ANAL VIBRATOR THAT'S BEEN SECRETED AWAY UP HER ROUND POOPER. NOTHING MORE, NOTHING LESS.
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Sep 27, 2009 9:07:03 PM CDT
Firefly is Star Wars if Luke and Ben never walked into the bar
by tall_boy66
I can't be arsed to find the quote, but Whedon directly admitted that Firefly is sort of the "Han Solo and Chewbacca" TV series, if Luke and Obi-Wan showed up five minutes later. And, yeah, despite the terrible ratings across the board on Friday nights, I think Dollhouse's fall into an entire different level of terrible ratings right at the bottom. Enjoy these 13 episodes, kids.
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For the rest of the cast because it does the trick.
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Seriously, I know I didn't. I was surprised Dollhouse was on my DVR the next day. If you want ratings, pair it with Fringe and just show the lesbian stuff in a comercial. Ratings gold.
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should be a mid season replacement 12-13 eps are enough
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feel sorry for you guys and others like you.
I am married, not really worried about my wife, but very worried about me, so much temptation living in Asia -
I watched both the Smallville & Dollhouse season premiere. I had that they moved Smallville to Friday nights.
I thought Smallville was really good. It looks like they are finally going to let Clark learn to fly. Only took him what 9 seasons. I hope they develop more of the Clark & Lois a little bit. Although I like Kristen Kruik, i'm glad that finally got Lana out of the show.
Dollhouse on the other hand was a complete disappointment. Unless it improves, I don't see it making it beyond this season. -
If your wife is Asian...and was born there, well, they say Asian women who are directly of their homeland, and very loyal to their men, and that is a beautiful thing. You are a very lucky, and blessed man!!! May your love...and marriage last a lifetime...and forever, and beyond what is forever!!!!! Temptation, it is only a test to measure the wealth of your love by--a test that I am hoping you will survive, and pass, honorably. Good luck with everything...and have a joyous life, one of many wonders!!!
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If your wife is Asian...and was born there, well, they say Asian women who are directly of their homeland, are very loyal to their men, and that is a beautiful thing. You are a very lucky, and blessed man!!! May your love...and marriage last a lifetime...and forever, and beyond what is forever!!!!!
Temptation, it is only a test to measure the wealth of your love by--a test that I am hoping you will survive, and pass, honorably. Good luck with everything...and have a joyous life, one of many wonders!!!And thank you for your kind words!!! -
I guess I just miss her? The reason for my pessimism about women. I just wish she'd come back to me. I would forgive her.
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or did Herc seem happy at the ratings dip in Smallville. Makes sense, he's hated the show from the beginning. Whedon has nothing to do with it and there are no vampires. I think he's just pissed it's lasted this long and can't wait for it ti be cancelled. Thanks for the closest thing to a Smallville talkback. Jerk.
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or did Herc seem happy at the ratings dip in Smallville. Makes sense, he's hated the show from the beginning. Whedon has nothing to do with it and there are no vampires. I think he's just pissed it's lasted this long and can't wait for it ti be cancelled. Thanks for the closest thing to a Smallville talkback. Jerk.
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The simple answer is this: There are too many fantasy, science fiction, and mystery genre shows on Friday nights competing...for the same audience--young males, women, and families--leading to a sizable audience split between the network and cable channels, thus, the networks and cablers should counter program each other with varying different shows, of different genres. As well, Friday nights are traditionally party nights, family restaurant nights, bowling, high school football (and other sports), date nights, shopping, and movie nights--lowering the available audience even more. This is just bad programming strategy on the part of the networks, and cable channels...as they are cannibalizing each other's series, and audiences??? I would place reality show/game show hybrids on such nights, news specials, variety shows, and comedies on the air to counter program rival networks, and move shows like "Smallville" and "Dollhouse" to Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays, when those most likely to watch genre shows are most likely to be available during the week. Now, since Fox has its cartoon line-up on Sundays...that is not going to happen, save for a special exposition of Dollhouse, using "Family Guy" and "The Simpsons" as a lead-in. CW would not dare try to use Smallville to compete with Fox' Sunday schedule, but the other days of the week that I have pointed to...are more than perfect for the show--well, save for Mondays, as NBC has "Chuck", and "Heroes". You'll notice I didn't mention Saturdays? Well, it's another dating night, and family/friend activity night that finds viewers often out in the streets at the movies, at parties, concerts, and doing, or watching, sports activities--hence, the days I have targeted are prime---for repositioning some of these shows.
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