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Michael Moore Is Back With CAPITALISM, A LOVE STORY! Now Who Wants Some Freakin' DVDs!?!?
9/18 UPDATE: The winner of the Michael Moore prize package is Regan Darcy! Thanks to everyone who took a shot. In case you're wondering, the correct answer was Crackers, The Corporate Crime Fighting Chicken.
Beaks here...
What Michael Moore did to America's auto industry, gun culture and its beloved forty-third President, he is about to do to its economic system. This will either excite or infuriate you - and I don't think the Oscar-winning filmmaker would have it any other way.
CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY, Moore's sixth feature-length documentary, is set to open next Wednesday, September 23rd, in New York City and Los Angeles, and to help celebrate/promote this happy event, we're giving away a big ol' "Michael Moore Prize Package" that includes...
1 DVD Three Pack of Sicko, Fahrenheit 911, and Bowling for Columbine
1 Capitalism: A Love Story T-Shirt
1 Capitalism: A Love Story Mini-one sheet
1 Miniature Combination Russian Phrase Book and Bible
Assorted Swag
Want a shot at this? All you need to do is send an email with the subject header "I Hate Poor People" to mrbeaks@aintitcool.com, and answer (in the body of your email, not the subject header) the following question: What was the name of the costumed corporate crime fighter from Moore's TV NATION?
Answer correctly, and you could very well be gifted with a whole lotta Michael Moore product! Deadline for entries is Thursday, September 17th, Noon Pacific. I'll post the name of the winner at the top of this article.
For those of you outside the blessed NYC and L.A. markets, CAPITALISM, A LOVE STORY will begin its nationwide rollout on October 2nd. I'll be checking it out tonight, and will report back with my thoughts later this week.
CAPITALISM: A LOVE STORY, Moore's sixth feature-length documentary, is set to open next Wednesday, September 23rd, in New York City and Los Angeles, and to help celebrate/promote this happy event, we're giving away a big ol' "Michael Moore Prize Package" that includes...
1 Capitalism: A Love Story T-Shirt
1 Capitalism: A Love Story Mini-one sheet
Assorted Swag
Want a shot at this? All you need to do is send an email with the subject header "I Hate Poor People" to mrbeaks@aintitcool.com, and answer (in the body of your email, not the subject header) the following question: What was the name of the costumed corporate crime fighter from Moore's TV NATION?
Answer correctly, and you could very well be gifted with a whole lotta Michael Moore product! Deadline for entries is Thursday, September 17th, Noon Pacific. I'll post the name of the winner at the top of this article.
For those of you outside the blessed NYC and L.A. markets, CAPITALISM, A LOVE STORY will begin its nationwide rollout on October 2nd. I'll be checking it out tonight, and will report back with my thoughts later this week.
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yeah number 2067!
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I'll watch that.
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SHENANIGANS
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Will it be Micheal Moore size? So that means its meant for 4 people to share.
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Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck. All take a smidgen of truth, filter it through a lens, and lead the audience down a slippery slope. And they all do it for the betterment of themselves.
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The guy makes enough to buy a million dollar townhouse on the Upper West Side. He sends his kids to high priced private schools, and God knows he's not missing meals. I'd say capitalism has been very good to him.
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...and those are his good points.I think I can actually see the stink lines coming off his clothes. I heard he vowed not to take a shower until we elect a communist as president. Obama is a conservative in Moore's world.
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I hope the irony isn't lost on that fat piece of shit and all the idiots that support him.
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Is this the one where he finally admits he loves money and that is why he charged 2000 $ for an interview in the Venice Festival?
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And I'm a moderate liberal, but to me, Moore is just another self-serving, patronizing, pot-stirring jackass who is more divisive than provocative, serving to further obliterate the middle in this country's right/left schism.
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FAHRENHEIT 9/11 made $222,446,882 worldwide and had a budget of $6 million, 90% of that went to Moore buffet expenditures.
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Where he acts like he is asking for a charitable donation? When he said "But I already gave at the bailout?" that got a mild laughing that was out loud from me.
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I hope he doesn't mind when I download it and watch it for free.
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If Moore omits to include extended soppy sequences with dead veteran's mothers.
Love your movies Mik, but leave the shmaltz on the hard drive, you're just not good at it. -
his black comedies right? I mean noone really believes a man worth over 50 million who owned, through a shady foundation that he and his wife controlled but make tracking the shares back to him harder, 1000s of shares of Halburton really hates Capitalism? He's the image of it. I got to admit he does make good films, they are fun to watch.
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I love it when Michael Moore makes stupid people look even dumber. Even when he's a complete jackass, you just can't beat him at his own game.
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I completely agree with Edman, but I've downloaded of few of these movies and it's a good laugh, I just hope he doesn't REALLY believe all of the shit he spews out of his mouth
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Moore is a sell-out. Shame on Knowles for allowing him on this site, but I gues fat smelly fucks who get rich off you have to stick together
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Chris Farley's brother, for that awful movie he made parodying Moore.
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... then he should hang out with Rush Limbaugh, to whom that description also applies.
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I liked him better when he was called Michael Moorcock.
He didn't disguise himself as an average fat slob with cheap clothes and a baseball cap.
He embraced the fact that he was a multi-millionaire with a canny investment portfolio.
And he wrote Elric. That shit was good.
Have I got the wrong guy? -
Really? I thought it was just fucking boring. Can't believe that shit made 200 million dollars. Like the last 40 minutes of it was just CSPAN coverage.
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The only one with the guts to call it like it is. How can conservatives deny the fact that Bush in league with the Arabs? They can't, that's why they attempt to sweep it under the rug along with all the rest of their dirt. Out of sight, out of mind. Fuck Republicans, fuckin' Nazis.
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Nothing less.
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A series of vignettes where Michael Moore and Doc Brown fly back and forth through time, trying to fix everything. The shit practically writes itself.
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is how they forget about their Christian obligation to help the poor.
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they're all about the bailouts and the corrupt Wall st executives.
But alas that's not what they're really mad at. They're just mad that a black man is in the white house. -
Yeah I'm talkin' to you, Moore.
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They're just polemics. Sorry, I don't need to pay for that... I can get preached at on the street for free.
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...for biggest douche of the century award. Without capitalism this shit bag would be working as a janitor in a colostomy bag factory. I can't believe people actually care what a waste of sperm blow hard like him thinks.For all his bullshit and bluster he has changed absolutely zero opinions with his pussy ass masturbatory pandering to the lib side and his work is completely meaningless to any thinking person. Just like Rush and Hannity he preaches to spoon fed partisan idiots who want to gather and circle jerk each other over how smart they are and how evil and dumb the other side is.The only thing he has accomplished with his lazy propaganda is getting George Bush elected for his second term. Congrats on that you twat. Please move to Venezuela and so you can finally realize your life long dream to be the personal fluffer to a socialist dictator. Either that or exit the planet at your earliest convenience.
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he uses the american way of doing things to make a boatload of cash and trashes the very system that allowed him to do it. go live with chavez and see how free you are to do what you want. better yet, france will probably give you a medal of honour for being more french than the french.
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= Liberal Loon. I bet he's a truther too.
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Google Arthur C. Brooks to see the results of his study. And Joe Biden only gave $120 in 1999.
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You get my vote.
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Dudes, don't send shit our way, we have enough with the "president", thanks.
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"PLEASE PAY $12 TO SEE MY FILM AND THEN BUY THE DVD KTHX."
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...because look at all the scum in here. Anything that provokes this many dittohead tears is to be applauded. Choke on it.
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Break out the haterade!
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Sep 15, 2009 6:01:18 PM CDT
Eddie_Dane: Conservatives give more to charity than liberals
by aliendragqueen
Yes, it's called church, a mega-fucking rich ass pastors.
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His films have done nothing...9/11 may have made a bunch of money, but people still voted for W. He's does more harm to his causes by the tactics he uses. Does he make some good points? Maybe. If he has to resort to sneaky editing and slimy film making to prove his point, does he really have a good point after all? After "bowling" people started to see right through the guy. He's no threat to anything.
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He is just as bad as the Limbaugh/Hannitys just at the other end of the spectrum. All of them spin the truth and distort facts and people eat it up making them all ridiculously rich. I can't blame Moore for making these stupid movies, if you can make that much money go for it. But if you do you might want to rethink the title of said movie.
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plain and simple. that said, i loved TV NATION. it was a chicken costume, but don't remember it having a name
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The FCC seriously needs to do something about an entire channel devoted to hate speech.
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He plays the outsider, but he is bought and paid for. More of the same crap. I'm sure college students everywhere are salivating.
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See what I did there?
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I'm sure more than a few republican bootlickers have had their blood pressure spike from watching one of Moore's movies, and of those few, maybe a couple of them died from complications. That's something!
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...you probably shouldn't be worried about republicans blood pressure.
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Does MM donate all profits after expenses to charity? I didn't think so. I used to support MM but I've come to see that all he does is preach to the choir and does not affect any change. I heard from a doctor I know that were shady shenanigans when he was filming Sicko in Ontario. A disingenuous filmmaker that succeeds only in inflating his bank account. I wish people would stop supporting him.
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... will be remembered as a man who gently, quietly understated the Truth. That's your cue: go crazy, wingnuts!
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conservatives give more than liberals? yeah right bush and cheney would never give there own
money to charity do u think sarah palin or michael steele or rush lim
baugh r spreading any of there wealth? hell no -
Hell yeah! Tar and feather those greedy fuckers! Woooo! :) Capitalism is a cancer and it must be eradicated.
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Seriously
The guy is practicing Capitalism to bash it? At the end of the movie he uses some hammer and sickle melody supposedly. He's a hypocritical fucktard. This site is turning into complete dogshit. No more moriarty. No good reviewers anymore. Harry is a shill for far left causes, and this site rarely breaks a story anymore. They are usually 2-3 days behind.
What a fucking joke -
2 years ago El Rushbo donated $2.1 million dollars to the Marine Corp Law Enforcement Foundation. Of course when VP Biden gives an avergae of $370 per year to charity, Rush ain't spreading his wealth around you fucking idiot.
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...since Lena Riefenstahl.
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...and don't believe the Obamaganda!
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... and be a Christian at the same time. Jesus Christ was a food-sharin', shekel-sharin' Commie Jew who would support neither Rep nor Dem-- but he would be a fan of Michael Moore. Poor America, you are very conflicted, and very, very confused.
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Sep 15, 2009 8:23:32 PM CDT
Capitalism seems to be working out pretty well for Moore
by charlie_allnut
He has a product that some people are willing to spend money on - its not subsidized by government, people are not ordered to pay for it, just people making a choice of what to do with their hard earned dollars. That's capitalism pure and simple.
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Even though he is biased at least his films spark debate on hot button topics. He practically started the healthcare debate pre-election and look and where we are now. You can't say his films are irrelevent to their time. He is certainly pre-empting the old bullshit "class warfare" debate that will surely follow Obama's tax hike.
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Michael Moore is running a monopoly
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watching (and amazingly BELIEVING) idiots like a Michael Moore story. Save it for your tea parties, your town halls, and other assorted hate rallies, lunatic assholes. We won. Get used to it. Because the way you racist shits have been acting since Obama took office does nothing but ensure that he'll be there for a second term. Thanks!
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ive had enough of u republicans and conservatives calling liberals
like obama and moore nazis this has to stop for the greater good of our country STOP!!!!this is all
bullshit death panels, tea prties,
obamas birth certifacate if u conservatives really really care about the country than its time to
step up and be counted start telling the truth for once obama is
nt lying about health care the economy or the enviornment they need to be reformed cause thanx to ur buddy bush everything is fucked up -
Ever notice how no matter what side is in charge, the rich are still rich and the poor are still poor?Left/Right divide is a scam devised to keep people distracted from Rich/Poor.
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And the alternatives are horrible beyond the human mind to realistically comprehend. Good thing we've got Michael Moore and the Morons to cheer on the lunatic liberal idiots and stir up hatred against a system that actually *works* in the real day-to-day world, rather than an over-simplified, idealistically driven disaster that has so far accounted for the deaths of ~100 million victims. (that would be communism, for those of you unaware of what you are actually asking for)
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We're all communists, jiblets! Filthy Commie Pinkos, right? You sir, are the perfect example of what happens when the far-right media machine is permitted to run wild and stoke this nonsense. Turn off Glenn Beck, get your fucking head into the reality of the country we live in, and what our president is trying to do to help ALL of us, including you. When your insurance company denies you coverage for some "pre-existing condition" or some loophole int your policy, despite the fact that you've done nothing wrong, always paid your premiums, etc...when your left to your own devices, and you lose everything you've worked so hard for so these companies can add just a *little* more to their multi-billions in profit (just last year), then come talk to us. Christ, I cannot abide stupidity, fear and hate.
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Sep 15, 2009 10:35:01 PM CDT
So just because he's fat he's not allowed to voice his opinion
by williamzabkarox
I find it funny how the right make fun of Moore's weight yet Rush Limbaugh I guess looks like Brad Pitt. If you don't agree with their opinions that's fine but what the hell does weight have to do with their opinions? I guess those who bash his weight feel that people of other races shouldn't be allowed to voice their opinions either?
Moore was just on Leno and said he lost alot of weight and is on a diet.
Also, if the guy was so greedy how come he is screening his movie for FREE to places hardest hit by the economy? What a greedy bastard. His last movie he gave away for free. What a greedy bastard. Think Bill O' Riley or Ann Coulter give their books away for free or does anything good with the money? btw in his new movie he attacks the Democrats along with Republicans (on Leno he said he goes after the Left much more).
And to the person who compaired him to Limbaugh, Hannity...Limbaugh and Hannity are racist. Hannity was close friends with Hal Turner, a terrorist and neo nazi and Limbaugh once said that James Earl Ray deserved a medal for killing Martin Luther King. Again, it's fine to disagree with his opinions but can you show me where Moore hung with the writer of the Turner Diaries or praised the killing of MLK? -
Can I enter the contest and trade the DVDs for something decent?
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So Moore is bad, he's a sellout.
So what does that make Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O' Riley? Drug users, friends with neo nazis, racists, homophobic. Ann Coulter, Bill O' Riley and Glenn Beck have bashed family members of 9/11 victims. Beck recently said he's fed up with 9/11 victims complaining about what happened and should move on, get over it. And you think Moore is the bad guy? -
know what capitalism is? considering the current state of the economy, the conditions and practices that led to it and the measures taken to try and fix it, did it ever occur to you haters that we don't have capitalism in the country?
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someone is a drug user, friends with neo-nazis, racists, and homophopes? Do you mean the former cokehead Obama who is friends with racists (Van Jones, Rev Wright, Skip Gates, etc.), admitted Communists (Van Jones), admitted terrorists and attempted mass-murderers (Bill Ayers and his ugly wife), and is against gay marriage (like most of the hypocrites in the Democrat Party who are somehow spared you homophobe rants)? Is that who you're talking about?
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exactly. that's what we don't have in this country especially in industries that are "too big to fail". see banking, health insurance, mortgage...
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Sep 15, 2009 11:10:13 PM CDT
I think it's funny this piece of shit, proven liar Moore
by coughlins laws
makes a movie against Capitalism while he's become a multi-millionaire by being in a Capitalist country. If he made a film bashing his hero Castro's Cuba, he would be jailed or killed. He is the worst kind of scum, deliberately editing his movies and making it look like the subject is talking about one thing when in reality they're talking about another. Say what you want about Bush (I know that 95% of you here hate him), but he took Bush out of context and misquoted him alot in F9/11. Best example, when Bush was on Golf Course about to swing, The Liar Moore made it seem like he was being asked about al Qaeda attacking us and it made Bush look cold and callous. In reality, the Press asked Bush about a Palestinian attack on Israel that happened well before 9/11 or the Gulf War. There were plenty of reasons to not like Bush, yet this tub of lard still chose to lie about him anyway...
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210 lbs. I'll bet he weighs less than you...
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dont be such a douchebag u have no proof that obama is a cokehead thats a racist statement u think
just because hes black hes a drug addict? fuck off andf who did bill ayers ever kill u jackass? its people like u giving our country a bad name thats the problem u probably dont get laid because u
reek of shit just like any otther republican or conservative -
Why can't this fat hypocrite turn the light of truth on his own industry? Michael, where is the expose on why Tom Cruise or Denzel Washington need to make $20mil a movie? Can't they get by on 100K? Is Moore pushing legislation to put on cap on how much the entertainment business can make? Oh, there would be a fucking riot by the Malibu cokeheads. Has Moore ever brought in more money than his production costs...what's that called again? Oh yeah PROFIT? It should all be confiscated and given to crackheads on skid row. Moore you make me sick you hypocrite.
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Beentheredonethat. The fact that he has all you Reps twisting in the wind over something you should basically agree with, is just fucking amusing.
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Sep 15, 2009 11:25:58 PM CDT
jaredparker 3, did you have a problem with Bush being
by coughlins laws
called Hitler for 8 straight years? Did you speak up once about Bush/Hitler signs at every single anti-war rally for the last 8 years? Did you once speak up about the books that were written fantacizing about Bush being assassinated? Did you once worry about decorum when Bush was being bashed every single day by lunatic Left Wing Hate Sites? You didn't? Oh, I see, back then, dissent was patriotic but now that a Democrat is in office, you can't say anything bad about the President. Just like the hypocrite Democrats in Congress who booed Bush during his State of the Union but are now trying to censure Joe Wilson for calling the President on his lies. Democrats have said FAR worse than that on the floor of the House. Rep. Pete Stark (D) got on the floor of the House and said that kids were getting old enough "to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the President's amusement." So tell me, what's worse? A Congressman calling the President a liar after the President called critics of his plan liars for 5 minutes, or a Congressman saying that the President wants kids heads blown off for his own amusement?
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Why are you always getting so bent out over politics? God you seem so miserable I feel sorry for you.
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So what? You gonna cry now?
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Sep 15, 2009 11:32:18 PM CDT
Yes I do have proof, you jaredparker3, he ADMITTED IT!!!!!
by coughlins laws
It's in his own book in his own words that he snorted coke. It is an indisputable, undeniable fact that Barack Obama used to snort coke through rolled up dollar bills. You really are pretty stupid for not knowing this... Oh, and by the way, thank you for calling me racist. Time and time again, when liberals can't defend Obama or his policies, they resort to calling conservatives racist, even though I didn't mention one single thing about his race. It just proves you were losing your argument. You can't refute anything I say, so you resort to trying to call me a racist. Nice try. Do you really believe that everyone that opposes this President is racist? Do you really believe that half the country is racist? Can you not concede for one second that just maybe there's a large segment of the population that doesn't trust a man with no real job experience his entire life to totally remake this country in his image, from Health Care, to the auto industry, to the financial industry, to the oil industry next?
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And Bush did get a kick out of sending people to their deaths. You guys always vote in the sickest fucks possible, why do you do that?
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You're worse than a girl I swear.
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Sep 15, 2009 11:36:13 PM CDT
I'm not miserable. I'll survive. It's you, sexyback, who'll
by coughlins laws
be hurt most by Obama's policies. You'll never be able to achieve the success I have in Obama's America. He doesn't want economic growth, or low oil prices, or low energy prices. Your cost of living will skyrocket. You don't still believe you're getting a tax cut, do you? He's raised everyones energy taxes by a few thousand a year. Wait to see what you'll have to pay if he gets Obamacare through...
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treatments and who doesn't based on their health and age. Some people will not be allowed to get treatment. Obama himself told someone at his Town Hall this summer that got a procedure in her nineties that sometimes you've "got to give Grandma a pain pill." In his own words, he pretty much told this woman that she wouldn't get the surgery she got, thus sentencing her Grandmother to death. That sure sounds like a death panel to me...
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I make a nice living, my investments are earning a steady return and I'm frugal to a fault.
You on the other hand, are killing your customers with unhealthy food and you'll pay for it with an eternity in hell.
Now who's better off? -
to their deaths, I'd like for you to back that sick statement up. How dare you accuse someone of that. What evidence in your twisted little mind makes you think Bush liked Americans dying. How dare you say something so evil. Have you no sense of decency? Have you no soul?
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I mean, you may believe it because you are what you read ... but you're an uninformed tool to say the least.
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You rightwing loons are so hilarious, Coughlin. You simply can't stand that a black man is president. We all know it, and the sick thing is that you know it, too. Welcome to the 21st century, asshole. Your little lunatic fringe party is regional now, made up of southern white men as ridiculous as you. Enjoy that...you're only going to get smaller. Do you really think you can win a national election with the nuts you idiots run out there every chance you get with your Obama hate signs? Your days of racism, your hate and your fear-mongering are coming to an end...and it pisses you off. America woke up. Bush is gone. Fucking deal with it. Ass.
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Sep 15, 2009 11:42:46 PM CDT
So, everyone who owns a restaurant, now, is going to Hell?
by coughlins laws
You really don't believe the horrible things you say, do you? You really can't be such an evil scumbag, can you?
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And Moore is releasing his film for free in the ten worst hit markets in the country. I saw him on Leno tonight, and the movie is supposed to be his most bipartisan film yet. He attacks Dems and Reps and lays a convincing case on why capitalism is a greedy beast that has gotten out of control.
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Why are you obsessed with his race? I don't give a shit what color he is. If Hillary Clinton were pulling this shit people would be just as angry and they were 15 years ago when she tried to take over Health Care. Why are you so obsessed with Obama's race and why can't you have a discussion without calling someone racist? Why don't you refute anything I've said? I know it's easier for you to just personally attack me but why don't you address what I've actually said, unless you're to afraid to have an adult conversation. I'll try not to use big words so you can follow...
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Unlike you, there's a wave of restaurantaurs providing healthy, locally-sourced sustainable foods. That's who I go to. I wouldn't eat the shit you served with my worse enemy's mouth.
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prove it. I've got Obama's own words. He told a woman that told a story about her Grandmother having an operation in her nineties that she should have just given her a pain pill. Why don't you explain to me how that WASN'T telling her to let her Grandmother die to save money?
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that should be ur moniker from now on coughlins and u still havent who bill ayers ever killed do u think 30 million poeple should go without health care? do u really
want to be tied to arabian oil for the rest of r days? how would have handled the auto crisis fucko? let
them collapse? that wouldve put
2 to 3 million more out of work
idiot u talk about experience what
experience does sarah palin have
to be governor she cant even contain a rational thought let alone hold public office ur
party is so fucked right now that
theyre all putting there money behind rush limbaugh a fat stupid tub of lard pill popping fear mongering mysoginist homophobic racist douchebag -
You don't have any idea what kind of place it is or what I sell. Why don't you learn facts before you start talking shit. Every time I have correspondence with you my IQ drops at least 20 points...
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than eat at your restaurant. At least I'd have better odds of survival.
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but you don't even know what it is. That being the case it's easy to surmise you serve swill.
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We refuted you and your kind of hate and fear-mongering on November 4th last year. Where the hell would we even begin to refute all the horseshit FOX News and the Drudge Report has fed you? Your feeble little mind is so warped and twisted with fear and hate...you can't even see who's trying to help you and who's only eager to fuck you over for a buck. Who fought for and created Social Security? Medicare and Medicaid? Civil fucking rights for all? Democratic presidents and Democratic congressmen and women. Who fought against each and every one tooth and nail? Your Repugnant Party of rich white assholes who only look out for themselves and their oil, pharma, and insurance cronies. Your so mind-fucked by these hucksters that you actually buy into their hot-button value issues bullshit, and the so-called "patriotism" they sell to get elected by middle-class and even poor voters. THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT YOU. Not unless you're donating millions, and fucking over your fellow man and the planet. Whay am I even wasting my time trying to explain any of this to you...you're clearly too far gone to even begin to understand who actually cares about Americans, not corporations.
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As always stay gold, Cough.
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for u coghlins ur iq wasnt that
high to begin with if u really believe obama is going to kill ur grandma -
...is right. At least about you guys...you guys aren't even debating facts...you're just throwing personal insults at him...you still haven't cleared up why you even think he's racist...
As far as Bill Ayers goes...he never killed anyone personally...he was just part of the group responsible for blowing up a building...sort of like the way Charles Manson didn't technically kill anyone... -
Sep 15, 2009 11:57:21 PM CDT
I never said Bill Ayers killed anyone. I said he was an
by coughlins laws
ATTEMPTED mass-murderer. He set a bomb that failed at a cop's house that was meant to kill the whole family. As far as 30 million, what happened to the 47 million Obama talked about in every single speech since he became President? Was he lying then or is he lying now? Or was he caught using the 47 million number which included 17 million illegals? Out of that 30 million, about 12 million could afford Health Insurance and another 8 million or so are elligible for Medicaid. So, the number is very, very small. Not to mention there are millions of those in their twenties that just don't want to pay for Health Insurance. I didn't have Health Insurance most of my twenties. But even if you want to use that 30 million number that the President has now seemed to settle on (even though he said 47 million as recently as 3 weeks ago), how are we going to send 30 million people to the doctor without costs going up and without people waiting in lines? It doesn't make any sense. It's not possible...
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OMFG STFU
PULEASE -
defending r guy i cant believe
theres this much stupidity in america -
In 2005 Dick Chaney gave $6,869,655 to charity. 75% of his income. For the past ten years, Joe Biden has averaged $369 a year. Also in 2005, Barack Obama made $1.7 million, and President Bush made $735,180, but they both gave about the same amount to charity. In 2006, Bush gave more to charity than Obama on an income one-third smaller than Obama's.
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These hate-filled, racist fuckos literally make up less than 25 percent of the population. Let's see them win an election with those numbers. Good luck getting elected to whatever Repugnant Party candidate they run out there in 2012 without any Latino votes, women, or independents who are disgusted with their behavior. I hope they keep listening to Rush Limbaugh and showing their asses. He'll run them right off a cliff, and I'll be laughing the whole damn way. Cheers, mate.
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would give health care to illegals again ur lying coughlin there is
nothing in his bill that awrads heath benefits to undocumented workers -
people in this country, but 30 million (Obama's number this week) that don't have Health Care. Given that 85% are at least somewhat satisfied with their Health Care, why does he have to fuck with the whole system? This will hurt everyone. It will mean longer lines.
You see, if we have the same amount of doctors and hospitals, but all of a sudden have to treat 30 million more people, that means longer lines and LESS care for EVERYONE!!! Not to mention, he's going to cut Medicare of $500 billion. He's not going to be able to do this. His numbers are off. The CBO says he's WAYYY understimating the costs and the government is ALWAYS wrong about the sort of things. Social Security is bankrupt. Medicaid is bankrupt. Medicare is losing money. In 1964, when LBJ pushed through Medicare, they said that it would only cost $12 BILLION by 1999. In 1999, it actually cost $102 BILLION a year. They were off by almost 100%!!!! Now, you want to trust a guy who's never run so much as a Lemonade Stand his entire life to oberhaul our entire Health Care System? Really? What has he ever done his entire life that makes you trust him to run 1/6th of the US Economy? -
peter and thats bullshit eddie
dick cheney doesnt give two shits about anyone but his own self
im sure he gave up 75% of his income to charity what was the name of the charity religous right-wing wackos of america? -
"The Cheneys gave more than three-quarters of their income - $6,869,655 - to several charities, including George Washington University's Cardiothoracic Institute and a charity for low-income high school students in the Washington, D.C. area, Capital Partners for Education."
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number from the Census Bureau. As of the August Recess, he kept using that number. He wanted the "bill on his desk BEFORE the summer recess". The Census Bureau said that 17 million of the 47 million uninsured were illegal aliens. Only AFTER all of the Town Hall Protests in August where worried constituents brought this up over and over again, did Obama change his number to 30 million. And I still bet you whatever bill he signs will allow illegal aliens to be insured...
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allergic to facts?
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you found on the dailykos and The Huffington Post about why Obama and his team went from 42 million, to 47 million, to 30 million. I know that it's tough to keep track of all the contradictory things he constantly says and it must be frustrating to you that despite his full court press and being all over the tv that the majority of Americans just don't see the need for scrapping the Health Care System and overhauling it like he wants. Of course, if he just had the balls to submit his own plan to begin with and not let Reid and Pelosi write the bills, if he showed ANY kid of leadership, he might not be in this kind of trouble...
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he's a good for nothing textbook liberal. People call him a "true patriot?" You've GOT to be fucking kidding me. You have to be. I will accept no other excuse. This guy looks like one push up would kill him and I've seen him called an "American Hero." I'm convinced it's a joke.
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Sep 16, 2009 12:50:25 AM CDT
Capitalism: The reason I'm rich - By Michael Moore.
by cheyne_stoking_dms
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Never ever trust a fat liberal
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Sep 16, 2009 2:27:09 AM CDT
Coughlins and BringingSexyBack are probably the same person.
by ol' gravy leg
amirite?
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Sep 16, 2009 2:43:03 AM CDT
Michael is a dishonest, paranoid, ego-driven hypocrite.
by ol' gravy leg
And yet I don't really give a fuck. Good luck to you, Mr. Moore.
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"to their deaths, I'd like for you to back that sick statement up. How dare you accuse someone of that. What evidence in your twisted little mind makes you think Bush liked Americans dying. How dare you say something so evil. Have you no sense of decency? Have you no soul?" ahahahaha... i was reading through the usual bullshit politics from both sides and then i read this post and laughed out loud... what a laughable, pretentious, high-horse thing to say... FAIL. its like a line from some parody of a film... *hero looks up to the heavens and screams "have you no decency?! have you no shame?!!"... what a moment in cinematic history that would be
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why do people seem to think that by adopting a socialist system in one area that means that they're converting to communism and completely abandoning capitalism?? its not so fucking clear cut, one extreme or the other... do americans even know how successful systems in britain, europe and australia work? i mean seriously? the propoganda in american schools must be something fierce because they all seem to be taught at a young age that communism is the root of all evil... people should educate themselves on such matters. Oh and btw, i don't advocate communism, i think theoretically there are some good intentions behind it but realistically it just doesn't work in the real world. ends up just like a dictatorship. capitalism is the way to go, BUT that doesn't mean some socialist systems can't be implemented like in the uk and australia. healthcare for example is fucking excellent in these countries, thats something that shouldn't be privatised as it shouldn't be about generating profits... and if you think the american health care system is anything other than a major corporation trying to maximise profits then your sadly mistaken. the only people who are happy with it are the people who haven't been at the receiving end of a huge bill they can't afford to pay or being denied their insurance.
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People had legitimate reasons to dislike Dubya. Whether it was torture or the non-existence of WMDS, Cheney and all his shady Project For a New American Century pals, there were plenty of solid reasons to despise Bush and his presidency. There are a lot of legitimate criticisms to be leveled at Obama(not prosecuting CIA swine who committed torture, delaying the promised closing of Guantanamo Bay), but it speaks volumes of a man when his critics cannot decide whether they think he's a "Nazi", a "socialist"(and no, National Socialists were not actually socialists, chowderheads) and feel the pussy-like need to carry semiautomatic rifles outside places where he is speaking. Carrying rifles near the president, for fuck's sake! Oh, it was a display of their 'right to bear arms". The NRA should crack down on these fuckers. Also, "death panels"? Bullshit. And Obama has already stated that his healthcare plan will not extend to illegal aliens. How about illegal wars? The grand totals of Iraq and Afghanistan could have gone far in funding a "public option". Also, it was funny how, at one of the town hall meetings, an angry man complained that he didn't want the government to run his healthcare. Now that's funny. And to those who call a biracial man with a white mother a "racist"? Well, they are some of the dumbest motherfuckers alive and should be shunned.
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Upstanding restauranteur, or secret plant for the insurance companies? "Have you no decency?" That has a familiar ring to it.
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Thank you for supporting the commodification of human health. Thank you for being against raising their taxes and reducing their bonuses. Thank you for letting them profit from home foreclosures. Thank you for supporting their right to be rich and your right to stay poor. And thank you for being tea-bagged by Glen Beck. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1I9xsV-g9Y
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and all you nimrods that still believe the lies on Fraudbama's telepromter are freakin ignorant. I'm somehow shocked that a vast number of Americans still form their opinions by watching CNN news, a source that is heavily corrupted by corporate/government propaganda and brainwashing. Obama is a total disaster, be a man and wake up and admit it. How on earth do you retards think a Democrat could fix this countries vast array of problems, im dumbfounded. EARTH TO LIBERALS: youre party has been hijacked by the exact same corporations that bought out congress and the republicans and this is Bush's 3rd term. Duh.
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you idiots that are mimicing the liberal media's strategy to turn this into a race issue, calling me a racist, you are dumber beyond belief. you can't think for yourself? so you get your brain dead, empty headed talking points from CNN and start spreading the retardation everywhere, this society is sick, yes thats the worst sentence ever written but fuck you anyways I'm not racist, im just informed of the issues unlike you CNN heads that think Obama stopped torturing innocent brown taxi drivers
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the masses. Isn't that FOX news' gig?And it's "country's vast...", not countries. Countries is plural. I hope you included grammar as part of our "vast array of problems".
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For such a group of nattering nabobs, you really should get things right when you insult somebody. There are no such things as Nazis...they were all defeated in 1945...hence the name National Socialist GERMAN Worker's Party. Unless anybody in here hails from the Fatherland and has great love for a certain dictator with a bad moustache, then they ain't a Nazi. Try fascist...it is much more accurate. Here's a definition of fascism:
ideologically based on centralized government, government control of business, repression of criticism or opposition, a leader cult and exalting the state.
Oops! Wait! That can't be right! That sounds just like the current presidential administration!
Sorry...my bad...Nazis it is... -
And their intellectual justifications of why Moore sucks on this talkback are so...verbally inventive.
Take Moore's length, suckahs. He's going to make a shitload of money off this, it'll probably get nominated for an Academy Award, it's going to make a lot of right-wing sociopaths look like flaming morons...and none of you will be able to do anything to stop it. How does impotence feel, haters? -
to think CNN doesn't "brainwash" people? CNN is 24/7 corporate/government sponsored propaganda. A recent poll shows only 29% of Americans trust the mainstream media. No the mainstream media is not only Fox news, dickweed. But at least you can feel better about yourself since you're awesome at proofreading. Props. You'll go far as a secretary.
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Because that fat pig has never been that thin for a long time.
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The guy who made emergency room health care at the taxpayer's expense LAW??? And Bush jr started a war of agression on iraq like hitler started wars of agression! The bush/hitler comparison makes sense, where the obama/hitler stuff is based on death camps that don't exist!! Hmmmmmmmm...
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the media show that the media brainwashes people? Doesn't that contradict your "brainwashing people" statement? Aren't they rejecting the media then, and hopefully forming their very own opinions? Nor did I say that Fox news was the only mainstream media, I said that they are accused of brainwashing the masses.And what's wrong with being a secretary tongue cleaner? Is that not honest work for you?
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Reagan made that Law...
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Sep 16, 2009 7:51:02 AM CDT
WINGNUTS LOVE DENIAL OF CARE FOR PRE-EXISTING CONDITION
by bringingsexyback
Nothing we can do about that. Face it genuiuses, you guys are just another set of rabid pawns in an endless cycle of pawns in the drive for healthcare reform in this country.
Except this time you soldiers on the ground are losing. Screaming at the top of your lungs and bringing guns to town halls don't help your cause.
In case you haven't noticed, your President is not exactly the darling of the Progressive Liberals. That would include Michael Moore, natch.
Unlike my Progressive brethren I'm not even in support of a public option, if such a plan would kill reform. You guys who scream bloody Socialist murder have no idea how much of a stranglehold the industry has on your care. Costs are already through the roof and you're complaining of Obama's reform? Even the industry is predicting 10% premium increases in the next 1 to 2 years. How's your salary doing? Better I hope.
The most frustrating thing for you is - Obama IS a moderate. He even got the AMA and Pharma on board. That is unprecedented.
No wonder you're all so livid. Even the doctors - who love their Beemers and Benzes - support Obama's reform. What the fuck are you so scared of then?
Government deciding your healthcare? You should be so lucky. Better that than a corporate bureaucrat, but this is not happening either. So again, what to be afraid of?
Higher taxes? What, you make more than $250,000 net income? Boo fucking hoo, you have my sympathies then.
I didn't see any of you smarties complaining when the Republicans were off on every single one of their plans. Unless you think Iraq's oil really has paid for the war. Do you think that? -
Do none of you bitches remember the coverage of the Gulf War! Holy Shit! Wolf Blitzer might as well have been over there wiping out those crappy Russian tanks the Iraqis had in his own Turnerized A-10. Ah...who am I kidding...the majority of you were sucking on your popsicles and learning not to shit in your pants....another nitpick though....regardless of what you think about the Iraqi war, it was quite legal...if you will remember, there were no-fly zones in Iraq during the 90's and each time the Iraqis launched a missile at one of our planes, that broke the UN resolution that ceased original hostilities. How many times did that happen? 50-100? American patience was phenomenal with those guys and Hussein was just fortunate that he lasted as long as he did. I personally don't care anyway, as Iraq opened up a second front that was like a bright light to jihadist moths. They just couldn't resist going out in a blaze of glory against the Great Satan....and we haven't had an attack since 9/11 because of it.
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I mean, thank God you're for the war and safe. Hallelujah!
But can we have a brief moment of remembrance for the thousands of American soldiers dead? And the tens of thousands injured? Of would that take away from your celebration too much? -
you all know it. Not worth the time or money to watch them any more. Bowling was the start of his decline and they've only gotten more idiotic and lame since then.
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Oh, I remember them every day...I remember my friends from my base who were killed in the Khobar towers bombing in 96...I remember the kids who were killed in 1988 in the Lockerbie bombing...I remember the 3k plus people killed on 9/11...I remember all of that and that is why we must defeat this enemy. You wave casualties around like a bloody shirt, but I really doubt you have served yourself, so you have no concept of just what exactly those who serve in our armed forces are all about. Let me enlighten you....they are not victims to be pitied..they are warriors who chose the path that took them into combat. They all know exactly what they are getting into, and they are proud to do it. Yes, it is dangerous and scary and it certainly is not where they would choose to be, but this is their job and they perform it brilliantly. How dare you tell me that I don't remember them...and yes I celebrate, as you should as well that their missions have been so successful that we have not suffered another attack on our country. I know more than you will ever know about the type of people who serve in the military, so don't even think you can even try to understand. Go back to whatever delusional existence you have and thank God that you are not called on to do what they do.
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I really don’t. All yanks are fat hypocritical superstitious capitalist warmongers so why all the MM bashing? You doth protest too much.
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...and all Brits are a bunch of eunuchs who left their balls back in 1914...maybe if you dig up Winston Churchill and take a peek you may remember what testicles actually were..
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Sep 16, 2009 8:27:46 AM CDT
"Capitalism seems to be working out pretty well for Moore" No sh
by snake foreskin
Perhaps this will be the final nail in the coffin for that imbecile's career. He is such a schmuck!
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It read just like an official press release from Michael Moore's production company. Way to go, shill.
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... and it might go away...
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Against Government interfering in peoples lives unless it’s:
·
the FBI and CIA tapping
American citizen’s phone lines
·
the FCC censoring sex
and profanity on tv and radio (violence and hate
speech are ok)
·
a woman’s right to choose
·
homosexual marriage
·
flag burning
·
a husband’s right to
fulfill his wife’s wish to die in peace (Terry Schaivo)
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How can I ever take you seriously when you leave HTML code in your posts?
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At least CNN has real news. O'Reilly, Beck and Hannity are not real news sources and they will be the first to admit that. When push comes to shove and they are held accountable for the crap they spew those pussies just say that they are opinion commentators.
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Fuck you. Bush and Cheney are CRIMINALS, and should be in PRISON. They deserve 200% of the critiscism directed their way. You contribute nothing but contention. You are a brainwashed egotistcal shithead who undertands NOTHING about "the real world". Go fuck yourself.
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It's fukking Microsoft Word
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... hate mongering, neolithic, misogynistic, racist, bigot, holier-than-though, elitist, sycophantic Bush supporting, Cheney dick sucking, Limbaugh rimming, brainwashed fuckwit.. and that ain't the half of it..
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Stabby, dear. Unless of course we're talking about the "journalists" on MSNBC, where editorializing has taken the place of reporting facts. O'Reilly, Beck, Hannity are all just news commentators, and all characterize themselves as such. It's interesting that the same people who carp at them watch Jon Stewart's show and derive all their news awareness from THAT. Hoo boy. You know, it amuses me how it just kills some of the people here that Fox is so successful and that it's achieved that success by putting out both sides of the story. Bill O'Reilly gets tons of letters accusing him of being in the tank for Obama because he tries to cover him fairly and even wrote a flattering piece about him for Parade magazine. That's what being fair and balanced means, kiddies. No, don't thank me, I'm here to help.
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MOST INTERNATIONAL ARMED CONFLICTS SINCE WWII (1946-2003)
UK (21)
France (19)
USA (16)
Russia / Soviet Union (9)
Australia (7)
Netherlands (7)
China (6)
Egypt (6)
Israel (6)
Thailand (6)
Source: http://tinyurl.com/r2rd7b
This message has been brought to you by pedalbackers for peace.
Bit off topic perhaps but kinda interesting! Someone was saying that UK and France had 'no balls', I think these facts refute that. -
The really interesting thing is the real hatred there is for Fox. I mean really, since you hate it soooo much, then don't watch it (I doubt if you do anyway, you just mouth the words of others). Of course the underlying truth is that liberals (for want of a better term - and not entirely accurate for the current incarnation of left-leaners) are really the ones that want to suppress opposing views. They would be so happy to shut down Fox and anybody else who disagrees with them, but I never saw Bush attack the media at all during his time. I do think conservatives misunderestimate (a small pun) the mindset of liberals though. Liberals are of a much more militaristic mind set that is generally acknowledged. They believe they are at war and those who don't believe them are the enemy. They are patient in their strategies - the push for universal heath care has been going on for decades for example. In war, all is fair, so any tactics are acceptable, whether they come from union thugs, Acorn, or whatever. Also, in war, you demonize the enemy. Conservatives are not fellow countrymen with different views, they are genuinely evil people...Nazis, etc. Funny, I didn't see that kind of hate over the weekend with all those people in Washington, and it seemed to be a generally genteel gathering. Hell, they even picked up their trash, which is much more environmental than any of the protesters back in 2006 were doing. Ah well, c'est la vie!
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I will give you that out of Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly, O'Reilly is the most balanced, but that isn't saying much. And I don't have a problem with News commentators. The problem is that a lot of people are getting their news exclusively from Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly also Rush. And when they are not flat out distorting the truth or lying they are presenting the facts from a very narrow biased point of view. I don't watch Jon Stewart and I get my news from different sources including some considered conservative. There is no way you can believe that Fox is truly fair and balanced.
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'The problem is that a lot of people are getting their news exclusively from Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly also Rush.'
.....so, where do you actually get this kind of information, besides just from out of your ass? -
I love how you people always have to mention, "love him or hate him," "the controversial," "he pisses me off and I *love* his movies!" and such. No. If you hate this guy and what he's trying to do, then you're a heartless, ignorant, right wing prick. There's no reason to be anything but indebted to him.
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I saw a lot of signs of Obama as Hitler and the Joker at last weekends Teabagger rally. Talk about demonizing your enemy. A lot of signs calling for militant actions, too. You are so one sided. Everything you said could apply to conservatives as well.
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I remember there being a few stories a short while back where Mike Moore showed off his latest movie @ Cannes, and everyone hated it and raved about some Israeli war movie instead.
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You spew the same tired talking points they do, ad nauseum.
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Sep 16, 2009 9:37:38 AM CDT
sexyback, you're one hell of a comedian. You say Obama
by coughlins laws
is a moderate? Compared to who, Stalin? Are you being serious? Name for me which President was less liberal than he is... As far as the AMA being on his side, they do NOT speak for all doctors. According to Investor's Business Daily, 45% of doctors will quit or close their practices if Obamacare goes through. Scary thought, isn't it? Nobody wants this garbage except for Obama and the Democrats. Those that work for a living, those that run businesses, those that pay for Health Care, those that are Independents and Republicans DO NOT WANT Obama, who has never run anything his entire life, to run Health Care. Do you understand? They don't want Obama to overhaul the entire Health Care System, which over 80% of Americans are satisfied with, in order to cover just 6% or 7% of the population. Cover them. Insure the insurance companies for accepting those with pre-existing conditions. Don't overhaul the entire system. The American people DO NOT WANT IT and if he insists on this, he will lose re-election. If he's so confident in his plan and people "will die" if his plan doesn't go through (I'm sorry, the Dems plan. He HAS no plan, the coward), why doesn't it take effect until 2013, AFTER the next election? Why not now? Is it because he wants to shield himself from what the plan will actually do? (Rationing, longer lines, month-long waits for operations, cuts in Medicare, etc.) He's a coward and a bully at the same time...
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I think people should watch ALL the networks in equal doses because there are some stories - some very HUGE stories, that the mainstream media is hiding from.
I seem to recall hearing about some recent ACORN controversy? I only watch network news, so I heard about this in passing while at the mall. -
You're so mind-fucked by the hate and fear mongers at Fox, you don't even know if you're coming or going. Your pals O'Reilly, Hannity, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh deal in racism, hate and fear all wrapped up and packaged in as many American flags as they can possibly fit on the screen at once. It sells, and apparently...you're buying.
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Yeah, I know Stabby, you get tired of them, but you probably got tired of your multiplication flash cards too, but eventually even you got those. Keep trying, little camper...
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Ask any true liberal. CNN and every other so-called liberal news outlet swallowed and trumpeted Bush's lies that got us into the Iraq war along with Fox.
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Sep 16, 2009 9:41:12 AM CDT
WENT DOWN DENNIS - PEDDLE YOUR FALSE SYMPATHIES ELSEWHERE
by bringingsexyback
You truly are the Sarah Palin of talkback.
The same flag you wrap yourself in you don't want anyone to see a dead soldier wrapped in, for fear it would jeopardize your desire for war.
You "remember" all those victims? I easily call bullshit. You USE those victims to justify your war mongering. Who the fuck do you think you're fooling?
If you even gave a remote fuck about the troops you wouldn't have wanted to send them into Iraq, under-equipped and under-manned, where the enemy WASN'T. Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan, and at least Obama has a clue about that.
You played the role of dumb NeoCon drone beautifully, that much you can be proud of. You just practically gave Al Qaeda a whole country to run. Brilliant strategy!
Many soldiers and civilians suffered NEEDLESSLY but you say they're not to be pitied?
So again, peddle your false sympathies to someone who doesn't know better. Surely there are many people amongst your social circles.
But around me, you have no chance. You clueless, fake patriot. -
but ignore what I actually have to say. You can't refute anything I say, but you sure can call me names and call me racist. I don't think alot of you have actually taken time to turn a critical eye on this guy at all. You don't seem to know what he's doing or even care to educate yourselves on what he's doing. You seem to take everything he says at face value. Why do you trust 100% the words of a politician? You didn't trust one single word the last President said but you trust this guy, who's never had a real job his entire life and has been surrounded by radicals, racists, and Communists most of his adult life and you believe every word he says, not questioning anything. Don't you feel like idiots? Or, I think a more descriptive word would be sheep...
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conservatives weren't happy with George Bush.
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Yes, I AM such an "evil scumbag" - from the perspective of the right-wing, tin-foil hat wearing, lunatic-fring that you fellate with every post you make.
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Again....show me the signs calling for militant action...point me to a link or something....
...speaking of real demonzing, all I have to do is look at Peter Franks to see all I need to see. Please give me specific examples of 'hate' and 'fear mongering' or 'racism, hate and fear'....I know you want to drink the Kool Aid, but real facts would be nice in place of just 'nanny, nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo'... -
Seriously, do you have any idea how batshit insane you're coming across right now?
Re-read what you just wrote pretending it was written by someone else, and tell me you don't see a hint of some kind of instability in there. Relax, man. Not everyone is going to see things the way you do - that doesn't make them evil or bad or even wrong.
btw: that is more or less the ENTIRE THEME of Glenn Beck's show: At the end of the day, we're all Americans, and our wide array of views and opinions and ideals are what continue to make this country great. We ENCOURAGE diverse thought and theory while other nations stamp them out. If you ever watched more than 3 minutes of Glenn Beck, you'd realize that. But its pretty obvious you haven't - youre just repeating what you've heard from someone else.
That's also Glenn's theme: Dont just be an mouthpiece in an echo chamber. By all means, be loud and vocal and active in politics - but do so on behalf of your OWN beliefs and experiences; not just what you've been told.
I have staunch Democrats in my family who never miss his program. -
calling Obama a coward and so harshly criticizing a man who's been in office less than a year, and is actually trying to HELP the American people instead of fucking them coming and going like your boy, W. Has Obama invaded a sovereign nation that DID NOTHING TO US? Killed hundred of thousands of Iraqi civilians, and left thousands of American young men and women dead and severely wounded on an unnecessary battlefield? How about ignoring a major American city while it drowns because those left behind to survive were predominantly black? Shall I go on? Go fuck yourself, you bigoted piece of piddle. You, and your ilk make me fucking sick.
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"or close their practices."
You believe that?
You think a physician will just quit their LIVELIHOOD?
To do what? Open a restaurant like yours and stuff transfats down people's throats?
Hey Went Down Dennis, here's a clueless someone you can peddle your false sympathies to. Have fun jerking each other. -
if I had called Obama a 'boy', the congressional black caucus would be on the floor of Congress calling for my censure.
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I took the time to listen to what you say and it is the same bullshit propaganda morons such as yourself mindlessly spew.
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Don't think to lecture me, brainwashed dolt. Don't ever think to preach your hate at me.
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Sep 16, 2009 9:49:31 AM CDT
I JUST CALLED MY DOCTOR AND ASKED HER IF SHE WILL QUIT
by bringingsexyback
if Obamacare passed. She said Couglin is a fucking toolbag.
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You should get a job as Glenn Beck's publicist. Listen to yourself, reread your post and you will see who is the one drinking the cool-aid.
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Congratulations, you're a genius. Using "misunderestimate" is not a pun. And you're absolutely right, the teabaggers NEVER display any hatred. Pictures of Obama as a Nazi, bury healthcare reform with Kennedy, Obama should have been aborted, mocking his Kenyan background, calling him a terrorist... Yes, you're right. You're also an ignorant hypocrite. I know the left can be just as bad but let's not be disingenuous about your friends on the right.
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He would have been sent to Gauntanamo and waterboarded!
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Investors Business Daily or the AMA?
Again she said Coughlins is a fucking toolbag. -
But at least he had the decency to do so in private, not yell outloud.
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he is not my 'pal' and from what I can see, he's not a racist, either. Maybe there's something ELSE he did that indicates he's a racist? Calling someone a 'liar' - last time i checked - wasn't a hate crime or a race issue.
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stop being such a white supremacist, Peter Franks.
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who can't face the fact that a black liberal is your President. YES, HE IS YOUR PRESIDENT like it or not! Deal with it you wining crying babies! I had to put up with your retarded war criminal for 8 years. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, how does it feel? You can cry and bitch and moan and call me a brainwashed liberal all you want but at the end of the day the guy I voted for is our President and the Democrats have control of the House and Senate. Waaaa! What's that? Waaaaa! Crying like a bunch of pussies!
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he's the guy who showed up everytime there was an update or news item about Roman Polanski and tried to defend what that douchebag pedophile did. Sorry Frank, but 'consent' doesn't really apply when you're slipping qualludes to underage girls so that you can rape them.
go defend your pedophile hero elsewhere. Im so not surprised that a pedophile defender like yourself is an Obama b(l)acker. -
we do not agree on Obama, Micheal Moore, or anything political - but a true professional knows thats all bullshit anyway.
Obama trashed my lights.
W got in your eye line.
tie ballgame. -
As long as we do so professionally. True that.
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Now that's something I can get behind! You know you're gold when they make pornos about you!
Sorry, I just can't get away from your name...I just keep having visions of you really looking like the griefer from 'Make Love not Warcraft'....anybody who is Bringing Sexy Back cannot truly be such....but I digress....
Let me ask you a rhetorical (you can look the word up if you don't know it?) question. What exactly, in your opinion is the defintion of 'war mongering'? Really...I want to know. Is there such a thing in your mind as a just war? If so, which was was that? Also, I don't know if you have ever lost any close friends, but I did in that bombing, so yes, I miss them and think of them often. As for the rest, I don't recall saying anything that would wrap myself in the flag, but you go ahead and read into it anything you like. I suspect your vehemence stems from your own insecurities, as I doubt you have done anything in your life that might even remotely qualify you for the term patriot. -
Sep 16, 2009 10:10:14 AM CDT
YOU'RE PRESENTING A RHETORICAL QUESTION AS A COUNTER-ARGUMENT?
by bringingsexyback
And insulting my talkback handle? It took you a half hour to come up with that? Seriously?
Why don't you stay on topic and justify your support of the Iraq War and opposition to healthcare reform instead. Maybe then we can talk. -
The fact that you can't see that Obama is in fact a "moderate"/is in fact attempting to govern from the center, is all anyone need know to realize that you have no understanding of politacal science, what-so-ever. You are in fact a far right-wing political drone.
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Have you read your own name recently?
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If they actually do instead of listening to what the real fat white rich greedy slob Rush Limbaugh has to say about it they will probably agree with the premise of the film, which is that the government should not have bailed out the banking industry. That's real socialism at work started by Bush.
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Nah, it came to me just about instantly...we NeoCon drones are known for our quick synapses....although I must have hit a nerve though....perhaps I hit too close to home for you....and as for staying on topic...are you kidding...I've read these things for years, and if there is one thing I know, NOTHING stays on topic....but okay, I'll play ball with you...1. I support the Iraq/Afghanistan wars because it takes the fight to the enemy where they live and not here where I live.1B - An addendum to this - just remember that this war was foisted on us...both Republican and Democrat presidents let this go on for decades in hopes that they would just keep it to a certain level, but when they attacked the US itself, you have no choice but to fight. 2 - I don't think I mentioned healthcare, but since you ask, yes I oppose it - it costs too much and takes away my freedom to choose. I actually took the time to read the damn bill so I know this is true. There are myriad other ways to reform our healthcare system without ramming it down the people's throat. I doubt you really care about health care anyway, this is idealogical for you. You want your guy to win, regardless of what happens. Although, when you get older and maybe even procreate, you might change your tune when you have to wait a month for your sick child to see a doctor. I can take mine to the doc instantly and I want to keep it that way. So, if you want to talk, then talk, but unless you have the whole job/wife/kids/dog/mortgage thing going on (you know, people like that 'mob' in DC who dare to speak up for themselves), you won't even understand my language.
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Those of us who have been on these boards for a little while remember all of the nonsensical idiotic statements you made leading up to the election. The 'Obama will never beat Clinton, McCain will win in a landslide. Palin is great - a breath of fresh air and smart too! Joe the plumber is right!' And on and on. You made a complete fool of your self, and still are. 45% of Doctors quitting if Obamacare goes through? I mean think about that for one stinking minute. I do not care where you heard or read that motarded stat from, only a complete idiot would even consider it to be true, let alone type it into a TB and say 'see this is what will happen' as if he just made some profound point other than looking like a jackass. 45%? And just what teh sam hill do you think thise Doctors would do after having walked away from at least 12 years of education (and probably a couple hundred thousand dollars in loans to pay for it), their entire livelihood, the thing that has driven them since childhood, to do what? Flip burgers? I mean, sticking your finger up a mans ass and feeling for a prostate aint exactly a transferable skill - unless they become hookers for people with ass fetishes - oh Coughlin I guess you will be their number one customer and keep them well paid! No Coughlin, you are ignored not because you make any sense - but because it is laughable what you post. I am sure you still don't get it. 45%. My god man, just think sometimes before you post such crap. Use your brain to say hey that does not really make sense that so many would throw away their professional lives and livelihood and face almost certain destitution (the gov't wants it's money paid back from those loans). Just think sometimes.
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when one has a name like mine, do you think I really care? I'll bet you thought long and hard about yours though....'ohhh, let's see if I can get the coolest name out there...oh yeah, I'll be just like Timberlake with this!'
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You do know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and that Al Quaeda was not in Iraq before we invaded? Jeeze, even George Bush has admitted this.
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I could really care less if they were or not before, but they sure were after...and if they were there, then they are not here. I also don't care if Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 or not, we would have had to deal with him at some point, and they had repeatedly broken the UN resolution that they themselves agreed to. That's all the justification needed. Or would you rather have Hussein still in power slaughtering people in soccer fields and having rape rooms for his two sons? Tell me, armchair quarterback...enlighten me. Just what would you have done that would have made things just so peachy in the world?
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To steal Cobra's line... thinking does not exist in Cough's dojo. There is no way any thinking person would post the sort of crap that he does, much less even find it remotely believable. Someone should go through the old election TB's and post all his deluded predictions. -
in Africa before I went after Saddam. But, I understand we have to protect our interests first, i.e. Israel and the oil industries.
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...the AICN talkback shows how the Internet is NOT where you go to have intelligent conversation about politics.
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... as in: fair and unbiased information promulgation. ALL news outlets are influenced by sponsors and/or political affiliation, and/or agenda driven corporate hierarchys to one extent or another. The closest you can come to actual news in this country, IMO, are BBC World Service, Free Speech America, PBS, and NPR, and THEY are all biased to one extent or another as well. "Freedom of the press" is a myth. It has never existed anywhere, anytime. All news sources serve an agenda of one sort or another (advertising revenue being the most widespread) whether they intend to or not. Rupert Murdoch, William Randolph Hearst anyone? Ring any bells? I suggest you check out Al Jazira if you're truly interested in an alternative perspective. If you truly want a semi-realistic version of what's going on in the world, (and I doubt that the majority of you actually DO; preferring to take in only sources that agree with what you already think/believe) I suggest you watch/read EVERYTHING you can lay your eyeballs on. We are ALL SHEEP( to one extent or another), I tell you, SHEEP.
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Seeing as how Israel is the only democracy in a sea of authoritarian regimes and how the entire planet would grind to a halt without oil (or do you think hospital equipment runs on electricity from fairy dust?), I whole-heartedly agree with you about our interests. However, no little African dictator had the power projection Saddam had. He had the 8th largest armed forces in the world, so you might open your head to the fact that he had to be taken a bit more seriously than some shitpot like Robert Mugabe. Finally, do you really think that if this were all about oil and such, then why hadn't we taken out Saddam in 1990 and just taken all the oil then? Why had we waited until after 9/11 to do this? The American people were certainly wanting it to be done then and were very angry when Bush 41 decided not to proceed. You tell me, smart guy...after all you think to seem you have all the best answers...
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Ya know, I was going to stay out of it and leave you to BSB's tender mercies, but that last post ticked me off. As a former Marine who served and fought, I find it disgusting that people like you could be so damn cavalier with the lives of others. Just amazes me how people on the right adopt the same principles as people on the left when it suits them. Extremism is indeed a circle jerk. It was always liberals who advocated the U.S. be the worlds police. Now you neo con dickheads are doing the same. We should have never gone to Iraq. Afghansistan yes, and we should have hit them harder, but not Iraq. That justification means that every petty dictator needs to be brought down by us, and there are far worse than saddam. Those of us who served are proud to have done so - and I for one would have gone back after 9/11, but to fight in Afghanistan, not Iraq. I would have fought wherever I was sent, but do not think we are mindless expendable drones that should be sent into war for no real reason that effects U.S security, but is only for a neocon wetdream.
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...well it is an entertainment website....and come on...it really is pretty fun...debate is a healthy thing...
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This fat ass is nothing but a hypocritical blowhard pushing his own agenda.
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Sep 16, 2009 10:56:30 AM CDT
I see that Coughphlegm has found more friends to play with.
by stalkeye
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...at least you put in that last part about fighting wherever you were sent...you were worrying me there for a moment...so where exactly did you fight?
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and who said I was cavalier about anything? I said I remembered them and respected them. As a marine, you of all people should know this. Just what kind of business did you think you were in when you enlisted?
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... is that they NEVER, recognize/admit that they are...
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to gravitate towards news sources that reinforce their own ideological beliefs. I do read Pat Buchanan's column and listen to Sean Hannity's radio show from time to time. But, the thing with Hannity is that the repetition of the same talking points just gets boring after a while. Glen Beck is just a doughy douchebag trying to get ratings.
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...even when they are liberals...
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You will lose!
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On an AICN TB? You are out of your fucking mind.
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Coughlin's? You sound smart.
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Homocode I can tell you what 'a cunt' is, but probably easier to understand if you just look in the mirror.
btw you've been immortalized over at aibn hehe. -
Fucking hypocrite.
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I have no idea if you even served, but you damn sure never fought. No one who did - aside from the moron types that get through the screening process, want to be in a war. We fight because we serve, not because we want to be in a war. The reasons for joining are many: travel, adventure, belonging to something, testing your self, pushing yourself, a job, a chance for a career, escape from circumstances, patriotism, family background. My entire family has served, it was a no brainer for me, but I also wanted more. I used my benefits to go to college. I knew what I signed up for, but that does not mean I was a mindless drone. Too often people like you, just think of a WWII stereotype when it comes to the service, and you do not see the men and women who are just ordinary and I mean very ordinary people who are sometimes put into situations that call for extraordinary behavior. People in the service are no different than those out of it. But jackasses like you seem to think all we cared about was fighting, when in truth all we cared about was staying safe and getting home alive. The most important person in your life in the Corps, and in in other services, is the man standing next to you, because he is the one who will make sure you get home alive. And he is depending on you to do the same. There are no speeches and flag waving when the live fire starts. It aint about God and Country. It is get your job done, and get home safely. I served in desert storm. The only reason I would have gone back was because my country was threatened and my President - even though I did not vote for him, issued a call to arms. I can not stand people like Chaney who wave the flag of sacrifice on the bodies of those who made it. You do not send men into war - even though they are willing to go, unless it is of vital importance. You do not ask them to sacrifice their lives, unless you have no other option. It does not always have to be the national security of the country at stake, but it has to be more than the fevered world building dreams of men who never fought.
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he's against fascism which is corporate takeover of the government and pretty damn close to what we have in the U.S. right now.
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You rock. Don't even think of justifying your service and position to that armchair warmonger.
BTW after you talked about your black bunkmate, I thought of you in that sniper scene in Hurt Locker. You strike me as a guy who would give his juice to the other guy.
I know that sounds weird but if you saw the movie you know what I mean. -
The people of Iraq would be better off if we had never (illegally) invaded and Saddam was still in power. They would at least have electricity 24/7, reliable clean running water, an economy that functions to support feeding housing and clothing themselves, would be able to go down to the local market to buy some oranges without worrying about being blown up by a suicide bomber, have cities that aren't bombed, out shells of their former selves, and there would be 500k to 1mil more of them to enjoy the vastly superior quality life they had under Hussein's admittedly brutal regime.
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Yet he is so quick to send others to fight his war of choice. I wish somebody would waterboard that asshole and see how he likes it.
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the numbers about how much money conservatives give to charity includes money given to churches. which is where the massive majority goes. churches aren't charities they are religious clubs.
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I don't think he "remembers" her service as well as others do. Ironically, this occurred at The Cracker Barrel ...
Army reservist beaten in front of child
By Kristi Swartz
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
A man beat an Army reservist in front of a Morrow Cracker Barrel, yelling racial slurs at her as he kicked her in the head, Morrow police said. The assault happened in front of the woman’s 7-year old daughter, who stood there, crying, witnesses told police.
Morrow police arrested Troy Dale West of Poulan after reviewing a video surveillance tape and talking to customers. He was charged with battery, disorderly conduct and cruelty to children.
The woman and her daughter were leaving the South Lake Plaza Drive restaurant last Wednesday about 7:30 p.m. as West was heading inside, Capt. James Callaway of the Morrow Police Department said.
The restaurant doorway nearly struck the woman’s daughter, prompting her to tell West, “Sir, you almost hit my daughter with the door, could you please be careful,” Callaway said.
West responded, telling the woman that she needed to watch her daughter and then began yelling racial slurs at her and kicking and punching her in the head, Callaway said.
Witnesses told police the woman kept telling West that she was an Army officer.
“She kept saying, 'Sir, I’m a United States soldier, don’t do this,’ ” Callaway said.
Police interviewed customers and other witnesses and arrested West at the restaurant, Callaway said.
He was charged with cruelty to children, a felony, because he beat the woman in front of her daughter, Callaway said.
“I was in the ambulance with her daughter, and she was extremely upset, crying and asking why he would do this to her mom,” Callaway said.
Police have turned the case over to the FBI’s Civil Rights Division, saying it may be a violation of the Federal Hate Crime Law, Callaway said.
“We are not making the decision that it’s a hate crime, we’re referring it and letting them make a decision on it,” Callaway said.
Officials at the Cracker Barrel in Morrow as well as its corporate offices in Lebanon, Tenn., referred all calls to the police and the FBI.
Calls to the FBI, which also has the video surveillance tape, were not immediately returned.
"We're glad that the Cracker Barrel called the authorities," company spokeswoman Julie Davis said.
West of Poulan was arrested after police reviewed a video surveillance tape and talked to customers.
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Ouch.
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Same old names same old proto-alinksyite name calling race baiting and ad-homs. Boy are you guys in for a treat in '10.
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Sep 16, 2009 12:48:16 PM CDT
McGoCain: What I like most about the Republican party
by darth_inedible
I like that their leaders don't accuse people of being racists for having a political disagreement?
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Sep 16, 2009 1:04:28 PM CDT
INEDIBLE - SO YOU THINK YOU'LL BE VICTORIOUS IN 2010?
by bringingsexyback
What indicators lead you to believe that?
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You're buying that horseshit FOX News and Drudge are selling. This isn't 1994, and you're little regional party of hate-mongering white southerners is not going to clean up in 2010. You're dreaming if you think they will. The behavior of those who speak for your party, and the lunatic racists who come out in with their signs attacking a man who's only trying to help them. You're the one who's in for a treat...in 2010, 2012, 2016, etc.
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Fake patriotism makes an easy target.
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don't seem to realize that you simply CANNOT WIN with a "base" of racists and hate and fear mongers. That shit disgusts most Americans, and we will not support those who stand with them. Good luck getting any Latino votes either after you stood against Justice Sotomayor for no other reason than the fact that she was a Latino woman. You'll never get black votes with the way you've behaved...we get it, you hate brown people. Who doe you think is going to be the MAJORITY in this country in 30-50 years time? It's amazing how short-sighted and inept your party "leadership" is. You're going to get exactly what you all deserve.
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I'm actually glad that the rightwing base is rising up. It only helps the Left. As much as the Progressives are infuriated by Obama, they're not about to destroy the Party because, like you say, it's better to approach problems pragmatically than hysterically.
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going to Viet Nam? Still? Really? The coward Obama never fought in any war, either, yet he's sending kids off to die. Why do you support him? He isn't bringing all the troops home from Iraq and he's upping the troops in Afghanistan. Why was it horrible for Bush to do this but OK for Obama to get our troops killed? Why yet another double standard. As far as doctors quitting their practices, yes, I do believe that. Why would anyone go through the Hell of medical school and the decade gone from their lives, put themselves a million dollars in debt, to have Obama put a cap on what they can make? They will have to cover more people for less money. Don't get mad at me, sexyback, get mad at the 45% of doctors who have said this...
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Sep 16, 2009 1:32:22 PM CDT
That undercover sting @ ACORN reeks of desperate measures...
by stalkeye
to further humiliate Obama.But those assholes ex-employees helped to give Neo Cons the fuel for their cross burning.How in the fuck would you consider giving a grant to a Whorehouse?!?Goddamn idiots.
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for invading Iraq. I'm not sure what agenda it is....but if I remember correctly, think he said;OperationIraquiLiberation.Now what the hell could that mean?Hmmmm..
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If he, at the advice of his generals, go after Al Qaeda and the Taliban hard, as he is doing now, you're bitching about it.
If Obama withdraws from Afghanistan, you'd still be bitching about it.
You're just an incessant bitch and that is no one to have a debate with.
If Bush / Cheney even tried to right their wrongs I would've given them some credit. That's because I'm reasonable. You are just driven by irrationale opposition no matter what position Obama takes.
Please continue to believe that hundreds of thousands of medical practitioners are going to quit when healthcare reform passes. Please do. It saves me the bother of having to respond to a worthy argument. -
Cocktail is a shit film. I mean, really. That's where you get your user name from? Fucking Tom Cruise dreck? I guess it makes sense considering your taste in political parties. Christ.
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THAT ACTUALLY FUCKING ATTACKED US! That war criminal George W. Bush should be put before an international tribunal for crimes against humanity for invading a sovereign nation, wiping out hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, WOMEN AND CHILDREN YOU FUCK, and lying about it all the while with that big, shit eating Texas smile on his face. Really, fuck you, Coughlin. Fuck you and George W. Bush.
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Obama is sending more troops to the Middle East and he wants to extend the Patriot Act. Everyone who was screaming bloody murder about Bush doing this is too scared to speak up now out of fear of being called racist. Thanks for shutting them up for me.
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You're a racist. You're a bigoted, small minded, hate filled little man who chooses to oppose a president who not only inherited the steaming pile of shit your pal, W. left...he's actually cleaned it up, righted the economic fucking Titanic, and it now trying to HELP PEOPLE keep health insurance instead of losing it at record numbers, force these fucks at the insurance companies to actually do what we PAY THEM TO DO without this "pre-existing condition" bullshit, and help those who don't have any coverage. But you, you fucking hate him because his skin color is different than your own. You're a twisted, sad little bigot. How's that?
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and he was absolutely right to do so. A southern man his entire life, he still lives in Georgia, he was the fucking governor and he knows, as well as anyone, that this shit is not only WAY over the top with your guns at rallies and your fucking disgusting signs...it IS racist. And you bigoted assholes simply can't stand that he's called you on it.
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Sep 16, 2009 2:05:16 PM CDT
I DON'T THINK OBAMA'S CRITICS ARE NECESSARILY RACIST
by bringingsexyback
But many of them deeply are. Not all, but many. Do you dispute this?
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..some incident which involved a Black kid beating up some White guy,and of course he is blaming Obama for this.What a shit stirer that lard retard is.
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and all sorts of racist names. Does it mean they're racist? Yes, it does.
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What else is new?
A black female soldier gets her head kicked in under a slew of racial slurs and Limbaugh thinks that's just fine.
I'm so glad my genes aren't wired for douchiness. -
how dare they take me away from such stimulating conversation....okay, so where were things with who hates who? I lost track....
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Sep 16, 2009 2:12:22 PM CDT
OH WAIT, CNN JUST PICKED UP ON THE BEATEN SOLDIER STORY
by bringingsexyback
Good job, CNN.
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There's no doubt about it. We're going to have to drag these backwards fucks into the 21st century kicking and screaming. And will they say "Thank you" when we have healthcare for all Americans, they don't lose everything when they get a grave illness and they can actually share in the American dream? Fuck no, they won't. Just like they fought us on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and the Civil Rights movement. These people are sick in the head, they only think of themselves and their only looking out for themselves. And the sickest part...many of them call themselves "Christians". They don't even have a goddamn clue.
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But just north of the border in southern VA, I felt like I stepped into 1950s Mississippi. Strange land we live in ...
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but we took North Carolina and Virginia last year. And Georgia was much closer than they'd like. We're the ones making inroads, bringing about real progressive change in this country. The policies of hate and fear will not work. Not this time...not EVER again.
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Oh God thank you ... I can't not watch my beloved DWTS.
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a liar, a cheat, a convicted criminal, and as crooked as they come. I don't watch the show, but will anyone really miss him?
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Sep 16, 2009 2:25:06 PM CDT
PETER - YES, AND THAT WAS WITH THE "STRENGTH" OF PALIN
by bringingsexyback
riling the rabid base too. LOL
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thought it was a good idea to put DeLay on DWTS. I mean, that really made this upcoming season unpalatable to me, and I'm a diehard fan. I checked the boards and no one wants him on the show.
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that the hate junkie base of the Repugnant Party really is stupid enough to make her the nominee in 2012. Please, please, please! She doesn't have a prayer of getting 39 percent of the vote in a general election.
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racism racism racism racism. Christ people we just elected a black President. Now we have some of the same people who voted for him expressing reservations based not on him being black, but on his actions that have since exposed him as a far-left fruitcake.
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Newt Gingrich? The guy is a raging hypocrite...even among Republicans. He cheated on his wife all the while calling out Bill Clinton for the same thing. Not to mention that he's repellent to the average American voter. I actually read a piece last week in the WSJ that seriously proposed Dick Cheney in 2012. I spit coffee out of my nose from laughing so hard. These brain dead hate mongers are on a one way ticket to obscurity...and it's going to be so much fun to watch them crash and burn at every turn.
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But yeah, I think it's time Sarah Palin go for the White House. I look forward to her running.
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hmmm.....
have healthcare...check
covered if I have a grave illness...check
already share in the American Dream because I work very hard...check....
I'm cool...you can take your vision of the 21st century and cram it up your bombastic, pretentious ass while I go out and make more money and give a nice hunk of it to my church, who really does help out the less fortunate...
Hey, toad guy...or whatever...the marine....so just what did you do in Desert Storm...did you actually fire your weapon or what? Yeah, I did serve and got to spend time in that sandbox myself. Nope, I never fought and never said I did. In fact, one would think you would be happy about that from your attitude. I think it is interesting that you changed your tune about combat when it suited your purposes. So, fuck you very much...and I hope you enjoy being the convenient tool for the likes of Peter Franks and BringingMonasticsimBack...
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I think Limbaugh ought to put his money where his mouth is.
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Run, Sarah, run! You betcha!
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better think again, genius. Just like every other American with a health care plan, the INSURANCE COMPANIES DEATH PANELS decide whether you get to live or die. These corporations get to determine whether they'll pay for ANY and ALL treatment you need now, or will ever need. You're so uneducated on the matter that I actually feel sorry for you. When your time comes when they deny coverage, and it will...you'll change your tune, and your behavior at the ballot box real quick.
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to Toad's service?
That's not very patriotic of you tsk tsk tsk! LOL you faker. -
See that bit about "Yearly maximum" and "Lifetime maximum"? Who do you think that's there to benefit? You? Think again. You're fucked...and the sad thing is, you don't even know it.
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He called it for what it more likely is...racism.or the mentality that many conservates feel; "if we can't have the house, we'll burn it down"!!BSB is dead on, as the Repubs are faning the flames of racial hatred.Atleast we know moreso than ever that the Party does not favor people of Color or gays for that matter.Michael Steele is just a Token n..incompoop.
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Sep 16, 2009 2:41:08 PM CDT
Thanks for proving my point again, peter franks. You can't
by coughlins laws
argue with anything I say so just call me a racist and personally attack me. Now you're even attacking the handle I use. Do you not see how childish you're being. Just one more thing I want to point out. I forget who it was but some genius here was saying Obama critics were using scare tactics. Did you NOT see the President's address to Congress the other night? He started off by saying that if we DON'T pass Obamacare, people will die!!! You hear that? He's trying to "scare" you into supporting his awful plan that will drive doctor's into early retirement. I wonder if Obama really believes that he can stop people from dying. I guess with so many of you Obama believers out there that treat him like the Messiah he really does have a God Complex...
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Sep 16, 2009 2:45:13 PM CDT
WOW I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT CONSERVATIVE ROD DREHER
by bringingsexyback
I mean, word for word. Kudos to him for calling Limbaugh out.
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You defend George W. Bush and you have the audacity to criticize anyone? You're out of your element, pal. Not only that...you're out of your goddamn mind, and you're out of your league. Save it for your fellow tea-baggers...I'm certain they'll be impressed. And yes, Cocktail was utterly and completely a shit film. I can't even believe that's up for debate.
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Your track record speaks for itself, that is why you do not get benefit of the doubt. For the record, I do not think you are a racist. I think you are ill informed and stupid, but not a racist. That 45% of Doctors quitting stat that you are still pushing is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. I am serious here, think about what that would mean. How much money they would lose? How much money they would owe on student loans? What would they do with their lives? Just think about those simple questions, and ask yourself what rational person would do that? Then ask yourself why a Doctor,a very smart person, would do that? Then ask yourself do I think that 45% of Doctors in this country are blithering idiots?
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The Republican Party hasn't been conservative for a decade now and that's why they lost power. I do not support most of the clowns in the Republican Party and I have occasionally voted for a Democrat. I would've voted for Bill Ricahrdson or Hillary over McCain who just puts his finger up to the wind and has no loyalty to any cause. However, I reject what you're saying about Limbaugh. What exactly are you talking about? The only people I see obsessed with Obama's race are coming from the Left, NOT the demonstrators at the Town Halls and at DC this weekend. Limbaugh does point out how ridiculous it is to call everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist. He was pointing out how absurd it is for Obama's people and supporters to constantly call people who disagree with him racist by reversing the situation and being equally absurd. How is it any less ridiculous to blame racism on Obamacare protestors as it is to blame racism on Obama?
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WTF are you morons smoking? He gave Wall Street a blank check and has reached across the aisle to deliver a more moderate health care bill. Holy shit what a WACKO COMMIE he is! Whatever you're smoking, please, keep it to yourselves.
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anyway. You call me stupid but you don't think things through at all. Where's their incentives going to be to have to treat more people for no profit? Explain that to me. This is why 45% of doctors said this. The majority of doctors are against Obamacare. Do you even know anyone that works in Health Care? I do. I haven't met one doctor or nurse who isn't against this Obamanation of a plan. Please explain to me how you would feel if you were one of 800,000 doctors who have gone millions of dollars in debt for and a decade worth of college that you'll have to treat over 30 million more people at no more money? Would that make you happy or sad?
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Can somone explain to me how this isn't the biggest piece of shit to ever be submitted to Congress? They're expanding Medicaid but slashing it's budget nearly in half. WTF??? Thanks blue dogs (aka Republicans pretending to be Democrats).
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We could at least respect THAT. You're a conservative and not a Republican, now. You'd support a Democratic candidate, blah, blah, blah. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth and you're simply lying twice as much. And if you don't think that a large majority of those fifty to seventy thousand lunatic "demonstrators" that came out last weekend, and those back in the spring at your tea parties were racist backwards fucks, than where were ANY people of color? What about all the signs they were holding? Did President Obama and his "Socialist Agenda" put those signs in their hands? What a waste of fucking time it is even trying to talk to you...you're so far gone, you can't see what's right in front of your damned face.
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When you've gone as far to the right as the GOP has, everything that isn't you is "far-left."
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and has been for some time. That WILL NOT be the bill that President Obama signs into law.
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Sep 16, 2009 3:02:26 PM CDT
One more thing, I have shit to do today. About Death Panels
by coughlins laws
Obama, in his own words, told a woman that her Grandmother shouldn't have gotten surgery in her 90's. Sometimes you've just got to "give Grandma a pain pill". So, for the last time, the fact that Obama's going to have a "panel" decide who gets treatment based on their age and health, is sentencing some of us to die. It really is a simple concept to grasp. As far as Joe Wilson is concerned, he was proven right by the actions of the Senate removing language about illegals getting Health Care. Now, have a great night!!! And if you really believe that all 63 million that voted against Obama are racist, well, you've got problems...
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Oh this I know. Baucus is a complete piece of shit. The dems are going to lose the midterm elections unless they pass a viable healthcare bill. and that means one that has at least a public fucking option. And god dam nwe need a single-payer system. How anyone can argue against that is a mystery to me.
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What would they do? How many of them would have transferable skills that could even come close to making the kind of money, and living the kind of lifestyle they are used to? Yes, some could go into research, some into the tech fields, some into pharmacy. But 45%? My God man, just think about how radical a lifestyle change that would be. I am not even addressing the dumb notion that somehow Obamacare would be deathnell - same was said when medicare came out. Just think about the money they would lose and still owe. The lifestyle change they would go through, do you honestly believe 45% would do that?
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jackass. They're called insurance companies. I talked about this above, and unlike you, I'm not going to just keep cutting and pasting my previous posts into new ones. I feel sorry for you, Coughlin. You need to educate yourself somewhere AWAY from FOX News and the damned Drudge Report...you really do. Read from across the spectrum, listen to those with whom you disagree, and learn something.
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Seems unnecessary and dangerous to me. Fail to see your point.
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... all doctors are just in for the money? I realize that it's beyond your comprehension that someone could be motivated by something other than money, but many are. Fuck 'em if they can't afford it, let 'em die, you (think you) got yours, so who cares, eh Cough?
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Is misleading. This was from an IBD poll and the result were 45% of doctors would *CONSIDER* leaving if Obamacare passes. Big difference.
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They were for fiscal responsibility in the past. After 6 years of them and Bush you can't say that any more. I don't have any loyalty to any political party. I can tell you what I don't like about the Democrat Party and what I don't like about Obama: I don't like Obama's reckless spending (Bush was bad, Obama is 4 times worse), I don't like his arrogance, I don't like his bullying tactics, I don't like his attempted power grabs, I don't like his demagoguing of his political opponents, I don't like his associations with communists and radicals, I don't like his allowing his surrogates to call his political opponents racists over every disagreement (he could stop it if he wanted to), I don't like how he tries to jam through legislation with ZERO debate (the Stimulus that DIDN'T work, cap and trade, he wanted Obamacare before August recess, etc), I don't like his broken promises, I don't like his coddling of terrorists, I don't like how the media has kissed his ass for 2 straight years and refuse to ask him tough questions or investigate his people, and I don't like his Vice President. However, I do think he can read well off his teleprompter...
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McGooCain. Just read his posts. If anything, his shtick becomes more and more tiresome with every key he presses. He simply regurgitates what his overlords Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn beck have told him. All his hate and his nonsense...it's all just so tired.
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if moore got it so wrong about bush
in farenheiit/911 than please tell
us whats the truth? u and ur ilk
wont admit that u hate obama be
cause hes black the town halls r all about hatred and if they werent why is it all white people
u c? this same thing happened back
in 1995 when clinton was president
the right wing nut jubs u hear on the radio compelled tim mcveigh to
kill all those innocent people be
cause supposedly janet reno burned
the branch davidians alive -
an would have voted against Bush if the Democrats nominated someone other than Kerry. I could have voted for Lieberman over Bush. I was still a fan of Bush's up until around 2004 when he uneccessarily injected himself into the gay marriage debate and passed that prescription drug plan. If I had it to do all over again, I wish the Republicans nominated someone else in 2000. I have voted for local Democrats in both New York and North Carolina (I was born in New York and moved to Charlotte North Carolina about 10 years ago). I really haven't seen much about the Libertarain Party but I do agree with them on a lot, I guess, but to me voting for them, at least in a Presidential Election, is throwing your vote away. I guess when I lose them is the whole legalize drugs thing. I can see legalizing pot, but how are you going to legalize cocaine or crystal meth or heroine? You can't really have people freely running around on that shit. Hell, I even don't care much about prostitution. To me, that's really a victimless crime and I couldn't care one way or another if women are selling their bodies for sex. Why can't they? Men are spending their money on women all the time for sex, just not directly giving it to them. Another thing I don't really care about (well, I do, I just don't think it should be a focus) is abortion. I really do believe that abortion is killing humans, escpecially after the third trimester. However, to me it's just not something I'm focused on and for some reason, every 4 years, the Dem has to be for it and the GOP has to be against it. But, on the whole, as far as national politics, I usually agree with the Republican running on about 70% of the issues but the Democrat on only 10% to 20% of the issues. I hated that I voted for McCain. I would've voted for Hillary in a second over him. The Clinton's, as sleazy as they are, are politicians who when they didn't get their way the first 2 years of their administration moderated and adopted ideas from the other side. Clinton went from a far-left liberal that taxed and spent up the deficit and tried to take over Health Care to a moderate who signed Welfare Reform and was forced by Newt Gingrich and John Kasich to balance the budget. Hopefully, Obama will be able to change and moderate a little bit, too. However, I just don't see him. He's arrogant and strong-headed and thinks he can jam through his agenda off the power of his personality alone, whether the American people want his programs or not...
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what experience did bush ever have that compelled u to vote for him?
him picking a scuzzbag like cheney
as vice president shouldve been a deal breaker for u and everyone else as governor of texas he put more people than anyone else he
sold his stock in his energy company right before it went belly up and this is someone u beleived in? ur fucked up -
Sep 16, 2009 3:45:58 PM CDT
McGoo, you honestly think that Limbaugh would be talking
by coughlins laws
like that? The only anti-semites I see on the national stage are Leftists, mostly in the Democrat Party. Look at Robert Byrd, Jessie Jackson, Cynthia McKinney, Louis Farrakhan, Jimmy Carter, Rev. Wright, etc, have ALL made anti-semitic statements in the past. When does Limbaugh ever talk about Jewish people? He talks about race now because he is constantly called racist by Obamaites and there have been a series of inreasingly frequent attacks on Obamacare critics as racist by everyone from Maureen Dowd to the anti-semite Jimmy Carter. There's also an Attorney General who has called us cowards for not having a national dialogue on race and would rather go after racists than talk about going after terrorists. So, I wonder why we as a country are "cowards" when it comes to race. Could it be that any time someone who isn't black talks about race at all, we're immediately called racist? Well guess what, your attacks don't intimidate me. I know that's what people learn from Obama and those around them, shut up dissent immediately by calling the dissenter racist. It's going to lose it's effectiveness over time to the point where it is a meaningless term. To say you can't criticize this President's plans simply because he's black without being a racist is just insane and a morally wrong thing to do. You should be ashamed of yourself trying to dismiss someone as racist simply for disagreeing with his horrible policies...
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like 40% of our previous Presidents were... Oh, so now it was Rush Limbaugh's fault that McVeigh was crazy and blew up a building. OK, let's use your logic. The Unabomber was AlGore's fault. AlGore worked people up into a frenzy over his scare tactics about the environment causing The Unabomber to send out bombs and write a rambling screed that wasn't much different than AlGore's book. Do you think AlGore should take the blame for what Ted Kazinski did? Why not? He believed the same things? Oh, I see, when it's a Republican or conservative you try to force them to take the blame for every single kook that has a similar thought but you won't do the same for liberals and Democrats. I understand now...
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There should never be an industry that "is too big to fail." If a business is not being run properly and is not profitable, due to bad management, over payment of employees, inefficiency, lack of demand, it should absolutely be allowed to fail. By bailing these businesses out we encourage the bad behavior that caused the problem. Once the company fails, if there is still a demand for their product, a better, more efficient company will come in to replace the company that failed. Such say the rules of economics...if anything has failed it is Government meddling in things they shouldn't be.
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all the lies in F9/11. Look up 59 Deceits in Fahrenheit 9/11 by Dave Kopel. It's really well done. The dailykos tried to dissect it and their responses are pretty laughable...
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You political idiots would have the biggest talkback of the last 24 hours. Thank you Star Trek!!
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That much I'm sure of, I don't think he helps the left (which I identify with) much, he is like the evil twin of Rush Limbaugh, and I find him hypocritical and his films are mediocre at best. However, I want to point how funny I think it is for guys like coughlin to tear their clothes over some hypothethical grandma but then say, hey fuck those 30 million that are not covered. Let them solve the problem on their own, but please obama don't kill grandma!!
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disappointment. He set the conservative movement back a decade. However, although I never bought into the whole "Bush is dumb" line perpetuated by the Left, it is nice to have a President who doesn't fumble his words constantly. He is over-dependent on his teleprompter but he can hold a conversation without one and it sounds like he knows what he's talking about (whether you disagree with him or not). Our current President did run a very good campaign, can speak well, and I know it's not his fault that the vast majority of the media kiss his ass and aren't critical of him. Who can blame him for taking advantage of it. I just disagree with him philosophically on just about everything and wouldn't trust him to run a McDonald's, let alone 1/6th of the US economy...
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who ever blew up a building or shot up a school full of kids and yes it is partly rush g gordon
liddy and a lot of other right wingers fault for spurring mcveigh to kill if they cant take respons
ibility for there hateful retorhic
what good r they? there whacko consiracy theories provoked him to
do what he did and waht about the scumbag that killed dr. george till
er? u dont think fox news and talk radio should be held responsible
for that? then theres the neo nazi that shot up the museum of natural history u dont think this is all
connected to right wing histerics? -
You're not being serious, are you? What about Obama's buddy Bill Ayers and his ugly wife? What about the Weather Underground? What about the Unabomber, Ted Kazinski? What about the Black Panthers? What about the Chicago Seven? Are you being serious or are you just ignorant of history? Do you really not think there are extremist liberals just like there are extremist Right-Wingers? Are you ignorant or just plain stupid?
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talkback have, though. I have been called racist, evil, had death wished on me, etc, ever since last year when they kept putting election shit up. It usually comes form those that don't want to debate what I said. They'd rather just dismiss me as a racist in order to shut down debate. It's a spineless move, but they do it...
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they did not blow up a single building the only building the only
building that was blown up was by
there carelessness tryibg to build a bomb in an apartment building -
they met a function and shook hands once!!! do u still beleive
obama is a muslim terrorist? or
that he wasnt born in this country?
john mccain wasnt born in this coun
try he was born on a boat off the coast of panama -
that most americans probably cant define the word 'liberal'. I don't even care if you think you are one or you hate them. based on the news stories i see coming out of the us, it is usually defined incorrectly. seriously. look it up.
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In America, we've got Commie-Liberals, to go along with our undying love for oxymorons!
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"I also don't care if Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 or not, we would have had to deal with him at some point"... thats about the stupidest mentality i've heard in a while you loser. and how bout this little gem... "Or would you rather have Hussein still in power slaughtering people in soccer fields and having rape rooms for his two sons?" you've just let everyone know you believe the bullshit propoganda from your beloved fox news... how dumb can u be? well i guess your name says it all... pathetic
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this post made me sick... "Where's their incentives going to be to have to treat more people for no profit? Explain that to me. This is why 45% of doctors said this. The majority of doctors are against Obamacare. Do you even know anyone that works in Health Care? I do. I haven't met one doctor or nurse who isn't against this Obamanation of a plan. Please explain to me how you would feel if you were one of 800,000 doctors who have gone millions of dollars in debt for and a decade worth of college that you'll have to treat over 30 million more people at no more money? Would that make you happy or sad?"... most people working in health care that i've spoken to, which is alot due to my work, like the idea of not having their hands tied so that they can't help someone because of the politics and insurance companies... reading your post just made me sick. the only thing you've thought of is money. that's all there is to the job right?? and it never ever crossed your mind that other people don't share the same selfish, disgusting thoughts as yourself. theres no arguing with you... you're a bottom feeder... a product of propoganda, get a clue you sad bastard
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what do u expect from someone with the header went down on dennis miller? he probably would little
man whore that he is i bet he
thinks glenn beck was right calling obama a racist -
...as boring and predictable as ever. The usual TBers coming like moths to the flame. Harry should thank you all for inflating the hits. Boy you idiots are sure making a difference spewing horse shit you heard from your favorite partisan hack and jizzing all over these boards. And the biggest talkers here actually claim to be productive members of society. Whatever.
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Politics or some thing/ some one political gets brought up and it turns into a sad playground screaming match. " All conservatives are Nazi,Fox news watching tea bagger racist! " or "Liberals are socialist and comunist who want to turn our country into one long welfare line!" . It's spooky to see how many people get so cut throat and violent trying to prove that they are right and if you don't agree with them you're an idiot. If this health care shit keeps going on and on with town hall meetings and protest eventualy some nut case on left or right is going to take this shit to the next level. People need to pull there heads out of there asses and form there own opinions instead of counting on Fox News or MTV to tell them how they should vote. Try opening your mind up and seeing both sides. It's easy.
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Thanks for bestowing your wisdom on this talkback. Ciao.
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Didn't work. The Right has proven they don't want to meet in the middle. Just happy to oblige them.
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
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WAS QUITE FUNNY. BEYOND THAT MICHAEL MOORE IS A DULLARD.
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And that's how extremists, say, the creationists who make America look rather stupid, get a voice. All in the name of equal time.
And as far as Dennis sounding off about Saddam's atrocities, can we just have a good chortle over the irony of how many on the Right worship Ronald Reagan, yet cannot remember ignored a Democrat-controlled Congress' plea to suspend aid to Iraq(which Reagan and friends promptly ignored) after Saddam gassed the Kurds? Then the same Reagan fans use the same gassings to justify the Iraq War? Despite the US government(at the time) supporting Saddam before and after them?
Dennis, it's hard to imagine you finding it upsetting that so many American and Iraqi lives have been lost because those cretins in the Project For a New American Century. Indeed, it is rather pathetic for you to here, on a talkback, to expoit the memories of your dead friends to justify a war that cause the formation of a new terrorist organization, left thousands dead, and from the looks of it, lost us the war in Afghanistan. No WMDS, no working relationship between Saddam and Al Quaeda, and no respect for human life.
And Coughlin, "terrorist coddling"? You mean, not torturing people? Unethical, and it doesn't work. When you waterboard Khalid Sheik Mohammed over a hundred times before he tells you information, chances are a new approach is required. -
But you're right about the Republicans. They supported Bush until the economy tanked (what else to expect after neglecting economic policies, spending a trillion on war and lowering taxes for the rich) ... only THEN did the wingnuts say "well, I wasn't so crazy about him".
Talk to the Right? There's nothing I have to say to them that doesn't end with the word "bitch". -
house. This is an indisputable fact and Bill Ayers AFTER the election admitted they were friends. Also, are you being serious McGoo? You want the list of liberals calling Obama critics racist? Here's just off the top of my head: Jimmy Carter, Maxine Waters, Maureen Dowd, Eugene Robinson, Howard Dean, Thomas Friedman, Rev. Wright, Jeneane Garafolo, Lawrence O'Donnel, Chris Matthews, etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on...
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Sep 16, 2009 9:43:17 PM CDT
Back to that IBD poll, it also said that 65% of doctors
by coughlins laws
oppose Obamacare. 65% oppose it and 45% would quit their practices. I'm sorry you're made to feel sick by my statements but explain to me why you would go through 10 years of the hardest education to go through and put yourself a million dollars in debt to have to work more and make less money? I suppose you work for free then, mynemaborat? You refuse to take any money for doing your job, right? How dare you try to make money. That's evil and immoral. I highly doubt you know alot of doctors. I do because my girlfriend works in a hospital. I don't believe how you fail to live in the real world. People need to make a living and the best and brightest of us will stop being doctors if the financial incentive disappears. As far as being able to treat patients, what are you going to do when Obama tells you to give Grandma a pain pill instead of giving her treatment? What will you do when it's decided that it would be less expensive to let you die than keep you alive? What about when you have to wait 9 months for a surgery? Or wait 48 hours at an ER? These sorts of things happen in Canada, dear. Why do you trust Obama to make all of the decisions for you?
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You don't seem to have any sense of information outside of what your cocoon of liberal news gives you. You take everything Obama says at face value and question nothing. It doesn't even occur to you that not even that he may be lying, but he might just be plain wrong. Do the things he says make sense? He's going to expand coverage for 47 million people (Oh, I'm sorry, now he says 30 million, it's so hard to keep track of his shifting statements...) without adding one dime to the deficit? Do any of you really believe that's possible? Honestly? Remember, LBJ said that in by 1999, Medicare would only cost $12 billion a year. In reality, it cost over $110 billion a year. He was 100% off!!! Why do you believe Obama is any better? The government always underestimates these things. Also, he said he'd save $500 billion from Medicare by cutting the waste and fraud? Why doesn't he do that now? Why wait? This is why seniors are mad. He's cutting Health Care for those too old to work to pay for younger people who can't/won't pay for their own Health Care. Obama's plan doesn't make sense, he can't explain it, nobody wants it, and it's going down in flames...
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ru really this fucked up in the head? ur sticking up for the insur
ance companies saying they wont be able to compete? well good if there that worthless they dont deserve to be in the health care business when my mom had her hysterectomy 4 years ago medicare wanted her to pay 1,000 dollars of it -
this right here, proves again you just don't get it: "I'm sorry you're made to feel sick by my statements but explain to me why you would go through 10 years of the hardest education to go through and put yourself a million dollars in debt to have to work more and make less money? I suppose you work for free then, mynemaborat? You refuse to take any money for doing your job, right?"... are you a simpleton? did i say doctors should work for free? no, i said most doctors (in my experience) don't mind the idea of being able to treat more patients. where do u get this idea that all of a sudden doctors will become broke or financially at risk? u must live in a area full of money grubbing, lazy, immoral doctors who shouldn't be practising medicine in the first place if these are the thoughts they're feeding you. And don't comment on the healthcare system in canada if you don't live there. Yes, sometimes there are extremes in waiting periods, for whatever reason. BUT those are the exception, not the rule. most of the time people are treated quickly, efficiently and effectively. I have lived in canada and the uk, I know that it works well. People are cared for very well, and trust me, the doctors are rewarded very well for their services. you really can't see that you're being spoon fed propoganda about the 'terrors' of a new healthcare system... and you're eating it all up
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"Don't follow leaders. Watch the parkin' meters."
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ur lying again coughlin obama has support from both houses its high time health care was fixed in this country
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... the only effective way to deal with Coughlins is to ignore him. He's too far gone mentally to reason with, and far too arrogant to even consider that he might wrong about ANYTHING. You try to debate the guy and all you'll ever get is "The Gospel According to Coughlins Laws". Arguing with him is an utter waste of time and I suggest that we all just STOP. What a god-awful miserable excuse for a human being. It's no wonder the rest of the world regard americans as arrogant, ignorant jagoffs with examples like Coughlins on display. I reckon he's one pitifully unhappy SOB in reality, who gets a much needed ego boost by provoking anonymous strangers on the web. Coughlins: I knew it was foolish to abondon a policy of "Coventry" toward you and I profoundly regret doing so. Must really suck to be you dude, - which is the last thing I will ever say to you.
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... the only effective way to deal with Coughlins is to ignore him. He's too far gone mentally to reason with, and far too arrogant to even consider that he might wrong about ANYTHING. You try to debate the guy and all you'll ever get is "The Gospel According to Coughlins Laws". Arguing with him is an utter waste of time and I suggest that we all just STOP. What a god-awful miserable excuse for a human being. It's no wonder the rest of the world regard americans as arrogant, ignorant jagoffs with examples like Coughlins on display. I reckon he's one pitifully unhappy SOB in reality, who gets a much needed ego boost by provoking anonymous strangers on the web. Coughlins: I knew it was foolish to abondon a policy of "Coventry" toward you and I profoundly regret doing so. Must really suck to be you dude, - which is the last thing I will ever say to you.
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coughlin u have no clue what its like to live in the real world like the rest of us c we live in reality u live in a red state fantasy world of ur own creation
so thank u and good day to u sir -
Sep 16, 2009 11:37:48 PM CDT
So he's finally going to expose GE and the "green" fraud?
by immortal_fish
And how this parent company of MSDNC carries water for them? Can't wait!
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Yes I'm stating the obvious but just imagine someone like Jared in a position of authority and it's easy to see how the historical political massacres in China, Cuba, Cambodia and the USSR happened. IF ONLY COUGHLIN'S LAWS WOULD THINK EXACTLY LIKE US THE WORLD WOULD BE LOLLYPOPS AND BLOWJOBS. Christ you'd think this country would be producing better minds at this point. I guess it's the fruits of 40 years worth of Gramscian jackass control of the schools and media.
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...Shocking news from reuters about Argentina's attempts to kill media dissent down there. And of course you have Chavez shutting down any TV station opposed to his express train to hopeandchangeville.
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Because he may just be looking at our society as being out of balance when it comes to profit v non-profit. Is it really a call for Socialiam, i.e. State/community determination of production or does he like many economists prefer Keynesian style capitalism as opposed to Friedman.
The reality is that most of the developed economies in the world are somewhere between the two, all governments provide Defence, Police, some level of education and infrastructure, amongst other things and all but the US - Healthcare. -
of the century so far. If you're so goddamn stupid you actually believe that communist shithead in the White House is a moderate, please feel free to chock the wheels of my 2 miles to the gallon motor home with that cum receptacle you call a head shit bag.
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What's a casualty? You fucking idiot.
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I DON'T want to win
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Only dooshbag Glen Beck.
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Sep 17, 2009 8:39:57 AM CDT
Michael Moore predicted the collapse of the auto industry
by asimov_lives
in America 20 years ago in Roger and Me. Say what you will about the guy, but you can't take that away from him. Also, he tried to start the Healthcare debate 2 years ago with Sicko and now here we are finally catching up to him.
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McGooCain, thanks for voting for Obama. Can you imagine if McCain was elected and had a heart attack how fukked this country would be. Sarah Palin is the Queen of Fantasyland where truth is lies and lies truth. No matter how many times someone repeats I saw a unicorn it does not mean that unicorns exist. You are right McGoo, these people do not care about this country; all they care about is their side winning. Funny how they accuse the left of the same thing. the fact is that the Democratic party is moderate and that the Republicans are leaning far right towards the wingnuts and their unicorns.
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Sep 17, 2009 11:07:39 AM CDT
OBAMA JUST SCRAPPED THE EUROPEAN MISSLE DEFENSE SHIELD PROGRAM
by bringingsexyback
I think our friends on the Right should be very happy with that, as it will result in significant cost savings to the American taxpayer, and aid in our healthcare reform endeavor.
Sec Def Gates and the military are to be applauded for identifying an expensive, potentially wasteful and unncessary program to cut for the benefit of the American taxpayer.
Since this does not compromise our security or the security of our friends and allies, it's a significant victory not just for President Obama, but for all Americans. -
Sep 17, 2009 11:09:32 AM CDT
I WISH JOHN MCCAIN WOULD JUST COME TO HIS SENSES ONE DAY
by bringingsexyback
and flat out apologize for Sarah Palin.
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will applaud this, but unfortunately the wingnut tools will use it as an opportunity to say he's weak on defense.
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I expect that. Seriously, nothing he does will ever satisfy the rabid Right. Because they're racist.
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Sep 17, 2009 11:20:03 AM CDT
mynemaborat, why don't you give me your list of doctors
by coughlins laws
who want to work more hours and make less money, while having to put people on extremely long waiting lists. Maybe the doctors I know are just cheap bastards. But Obama has made it clear that he's raising their taxes, will refuse to limit malpractice suits against doctors, will demand that 800,000 doctors have to treat 30 million (or is it 47 million, it's so hard to keep track of Obama's changing statements) more people with no help, and will eventually have a cap put on what they make when Obamacare goes through fully...
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Did you listen to Obama's speech. Taxes will not be raised, willing to look at tort reform, and I don't know where you get this salary cap shit from. Oh wait let me guess...
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consider that they might be wrong about anything. They live and get their news in an echo chamber and I'm sure that alot of the times when I give them facts it's the first time they've heard some of what I say. I have never lied here. I may have been wrong about something but no one hear ever is informed enough to point out any of my facts as being wrong. That guy just admitted they never debate facts with me. They just call me names and try to call me racist, evil, wish me dead, etc. They never challenge anything I say because they can't. As far as lies, name one thing I lied about. Keep in mind, I don't play the game where if someone is wrong about something that makes them a liar. You have to know you're lying to be a liar. However, I believe everything I've said. What am I wrong about? What have I lied about?
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Sep 17, 2009 11:30:40 AM CDT
stabby, you really don't believe the Dem Party is moderate,
by coughlins laws
do you? Come on, now? I admit that what's left of the Republican Party is conservative, but not conervative enough. They nominated the most mushy moderate they could and he got clobbered. Why can't you just admit that Obama is a far-Left liberal? What the fuck is moderate about overhauling 1/6th of the US Economy? What is moderate about taking over the auto industry and telling them what cars they must produce? What is moderate about a $700 billion so-called Stimulus package that has done nothing to stimulate the economy but has sent unemployment up near 10%? What is moderate about agreeing to add $12 TRILLION to the National Debt over the next 8 years, more than EVERY SINGLE US PRESIDENT IN HISTORY COMBINED!!!! And that's BEFORE Obamacare gets jammed through... Tell me how anything he's done is moderate. Why are you so afraid to call your liberal President liberal? Just own up to it. If you're so right, why do you have to pretend he's not liberal?
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a moderate position? He's a liberal on the economy- tax the rich and spend like crazy. He's a liberal on the environment. He's a liberal on foreign policy. Where is he a moderate on any issue? I'm not trying to be an asshole. Maybe I'm missing something...
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All those things you mention, saved for healthcare reform were at the advice of the same economic advisors that Bush used. Bush gave the first $700 billon to bail out the banking industry. Bernanke helped come up with the stimulus package. I am not a leftie, but leftists wish Obama and the Democrats were more liberal. Obama is hawkish on Afghanistan. That's one area where he is not liberal. If anything Obama is continuing the pro-corporate socialism of Bush and the Republicans.
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...about anything beyond movies? It's completely useless. You'd be better off arguing politics or economics with a dog. You know he's always going to respond with the SAME lies and distorted statistics, nothing is ever learned except for more pitiful backstory about how to mismanage a restaurant, and responding to his BS as if it's somehow remotely true only lowers the bar for what should be taken as serious criticism. He's nothing but a joke. Why play along, talkback after talkback, with such a bad joke? -
He can't possibly NOT raise taxes. Obama has already broken/lied about alot of things he promised. Why do you take his word on anything. Nobody thinks he can do what he says without raising taxes. The CBO says his numbers don't add up. He's lied about no lobbyists in his administration (there are over a dozen). He's lied about no earmarks (his first spending bill had over 8000 earmarks). He lied about putting bills on line for 5 days before signing them (he's broken this several times, including his so-called Stimulus Bill, which didn't Stimulate anything). He said that unemployment wouldn't go above 8% if the Stimulus was signed (it's almost 10% now and shows no signs of going down anytime soon). His people have said that we'd be in a post-racial country when he was elected (the word "racist" has been thrown around more in the last year than the previous ten). He keeps changing his number of unemployed. Between he and his people, the number was 42 million, then it was 47 million, now it's 30 million, how can you keep track of his shifting positions on this? He said no one making under $250,000 will have their taxes raised (His administration just admitted that the average families energy bill will go up $1,700 a year). Why do you take his word on anything when he has broken so many promises/lied about so many promises already? Why do you trust his numbers? He doesn't even have a plan himself so he can't possibly be telling the truth. He's making a promise that I'm sure he'll be forced to break. I could be wrong, but given his track record and the governments track record on costs (Social Security is broke-you and I will never see a dime of it, Medicaid is broke, Medicare is losing tens of billions, LBJ promised in 1964 that in 25 years Medicare would only be costing $12 BILLION a year, in reality Medicare cost $110 BILLION A YEAR, they were 100% off!!!) Again, I'll bet you were one of those that didn't trust anything the last President said about anything. So, where did that healthy skepticism go? Why don't you question what this guy, who's been so wrong, has lied, and has never run anything his entire life to run Health Care?
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Sep 17, 2009 11:51:00 AM CDT
Yeah, stabby, Bush was wrong, too. What's your point?
by coughlins laws
Because Bush was stupid and overspent we should allow Obama to do it even more? Plus, I thought you hated Bush? Why are you using him as an example of what Obama should do?
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It's the least we can do for Harry!
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You can't refute anything I say, so you just dismiss me and call me a liar. If all I do is lie, surely it must be easy to point out just one lie, wouldn't it? Why don't you tell me where I'm wrong, if it's so easy. If any of you could point out something I've lied about, you would. It's not good enough to just say I've lied about something, you must also back it up with facts. I know it's tough being an adult, but that's what adults do. Prove I'm wrong on something. Prove I've lied about something. If you don't, or can't, you've proven yourself a child who can only dish out insults but can't back up your arguments...
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the Democrats were supposed to be for the blue collar little guy rising up and making something for himself. Why do you continually denigrate what I do for a living? Does it somehow make you feel "superior" to me? Does it make you feel good about yourself? I'll put my work ethic up against yours any day of the week. You wouldn't last one shift in my restaurant...
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Sep 17, 2009 12:02:37 PM CDT
OK, I'll give you Afghanistan, there's one issue out of
by coughlins laws
20 that he's not lock-step with the dailykos on. That's hardly enough to call the guy moderate. Maybe you're right and he will prove to have turned this country around 4 years from now. That won't make him any less a liberal. Just admit he's liberal. There's nothing moderate about him. I think liberals are wrong on most issues. Maybe you'll all prove me wrong. Just don't try to give people the bullshit that this clown is moderate...
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and definitely not a Communist. All I'm saying is that people on the far left are not happy with Obama. Liberals did not want to see the government bail out the banking industry they wanted to see the people losing their homes helped out.
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Something needs to be done about healthcare. This year my salary after taxes went down because we have a freeze on cost of living raises and yet health insurance keeps going up. I agree with the person who said that we already do have death panels in the form of the healthcare insurance companies who make decisions based on profit margins whether to cover a procedure or not. Somehow this needs to stop. I agree that single payer government run healthcare might not be the best solution. But, it's clear that we can't leave it all up to the free market. We've tried that and it's failing miserably. Doctors love medicare because they know they don't have to go through so much bureaucratic bullshit to get paid. Don't tell me that's not true because I know a woman who went to one of the best knee surgeon specialists in the country and they only accept medicare recipients and people with high end private coverage.
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Sep 17, 2009 12:23:45 PM CDT
The Chicago 7 just started a riot. I was listing liberals
by coughlins laws
that have blown up buildings or have partaken in terrorism. Why don't you name a lie for me. Where did I lie? What did I say that was wrong? It's a matter of opinion if you think the Chicago 7 were terrorists or not (they didn't show up play checkers at the DNC in 1968), but where did I lie about anything? I've listed about 20 facts in the last two days and the best you've got is the Chicago 7 because they didn't blow up a building, they only showed up with 10,000 people to start a riot. What have I lied about? What was I wrong about? Why don't you defend one of Obama's lies? Oh, I see, you can't. You can only personally attack me. It's funny how you call me arrogant while defending the most arrogant politician we've had in decades in the Oval Office...
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Sep 17, 2009 12:31:30 PM CDT
stabby, I gotta love you. In one breath you and Obama
by coughlins laws
say that there are no "death panels", Sarah Palin and all those that say they are are lying. Then, in the next breath you say, well, there already ARE death panels. Which is it? But even if you're saying there are now, who should decide on coverage? A private company or doctor, or the government? The difference is, once the government decides these things, that's it. No surgery. If you can't get one insurance company to cover you, you could find another. Or you could pay yourself. At least you have a choice. Obama has said, in his own words, sometimes "you've got to give Grandma a pain pill". What do you think he meant when he said that? Did it sound like he was interested in allowing her life to be saved or prolonged?
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Thousands and thousands of times. Your arguments have been utterly eviscerated, talkback after talkback, by people far more eloquent (and more willing to suffer fools) than I am. I could go through your posts and point out exactly WHY you're full of shit... again, it's not hard to do... but what's the point? You won't learn anything. You'll still be as full of the exact same shit next time Moore is mentioned here. And I'll have wasted time that could be better spent doing anything else. Responding to your posts as if they actually have any merit only helps legitimize your obviously idiotic point of view. The only thing they're good for is fodder for mockery. And even that gets boring after the hundredth time. I'll talk movies with you, provided you don't get your opinions on them from AM hate radio too... but when it comes to politics, serious discussion is wasted on you. And I want to say that that's not applicable to all right-leaning TBer's. There are plenty here who cite legitimate statistics to make valid, thought provoking points (kevinwillis.net comes to mind) without going all moonbat, leading to interesting, worthwhile political exchanges... you, however, are not one of these TBer's. -
Sep 17, 2009 12:39:26 PM CDT
McGoo, the point I was making was the whole "Bush Lied"
by coughlins laws
shit you keep hearing about. He didn't lie. He was wrong. He was told by every intelligence agency in the world that Iraq still had WMDs. The CIA, British Intelligence, Australian Intelligence, the UN Security Council, Bill Clinton, AlGore, Hillary Clinton, Tony Blair, John Howard, Dick Gephart, John Keryy, John Edwards, and even Michael Moore ALL thought Iraq still had WMDs. George Tenet, the Clinton appointed Head of the CIA told Bush it was s "slam dunk" that Saddam Hussein still had WMDs. Saddam, in interviews after he was captured, admitted that he was pretending he still had them to look like he was still strong to Iran. All of Planet Earth thought Iraq had WMDs prior to our invasion. They were wrong. They didn't lie. They were wrong. Bush trusted the intelligence. He repeated what he was told. He was wrong. He didn't lie about it. You see the difference? However, you have yet to point out anything I've lied about. Name one thing...
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wrong or proven a liar on. If it's happened thousands of times, surely it must be easy to find one. I've been wrong. I didn't think Obama would win the election. However, what do you think I was wrong about? Name one thing I was wrong about/lied about on this talkback. Surely, if I lie or am wrong, it should be easy for you to point it out. Let's just limit it to Obama's proven lies/broken promises. I won't even say Obama lied. I'll say he was wrong and he broke his promises. Why believe anything he says when he is so often wrong? Why can't you point out just one thing? At least McGoo tried. I went back and re-read what he said. I can see why he thought that I meant the Chicago 7 blew shit up. I was just making a list of liberal domestic terrorists, some of them who blew shit up. Please, prove yourself someone who isn't a mindless asshole who just flings insults. If you can disprove something I've said, please do...
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What's a casualty? Just wondering.
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I don't talk to klansmen about racism, and I don't talk to dittoheads about politics. You've never recognized when you've been proven wrong before; why would you start now? Like I said; talking to you about anything related to politics is pointless. That's why I was wondering why others here waste their time doing it. Have fun neglecting your drive-thru to post more BS. I have no doubt you'll be back here again, Wiley Coyote-style, posting the same tired crap to the next Moore TB, with the same results. If I acknowledge you, it'll just be to point and laugh. -
Not everyone in the world believed that Saddam had WMD. There were plenty of analysts in the CIA that said that he did not. Cheney chose to ignore those reports. This is fact. look it up. Also, the U.N. weapons inspectors said that the sanctions were working and that Saddam's threat level was seriously reduced and they recommended continuing their work. They were right! So, don't lie and say that everyone thought that he had WMD. I remember when Bush was pushing his propaganda for war that even I knew there were no WMD because I had been reading alternative news sources. Yes, my liberal media let me down.
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though England and America both speak English, in America, the vast majority of Americans refer to the term "casualty" as a combat death. I'm not the only one. I can show you screen grabs from almost every American news outlet who show the term "casualty" on screen while they're talking about deaths. I've got one from CNN, I've got one from Fox News, I've got one from ABC News. I'm sure I can find them from CBS and NBC, also. If you want to feel superior over someone, feel superior over the US media as a whole...
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You're right, though, Bush should've ignored the conclusions of the Head of the CIA, British Intelligence, Australian Intelligence, and the UN Security Council and listened to the couple of reports that though he might not. I'm glad you take the word a rapist and mass murderer over the words of hundreds of years of intelligence work...
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Sep 17, 2009 1:17:47 PM CDT
I listed all of those liberal terrorists. I notice how you
by coughlins laws
you don't deny that I proved that guy wrong. Bill Ayers blew up buildings. This is 1000% FACT!!! Bill Ayers wife blew up buildings. This is 1000% fact. The Weather Underground, which Obama's buddy Bill Ayers started, blew up buildings and killed people. This is 1000% FACT!!! Ted Kyzinski, who believes AlGore's BS about the environment, blew up people. This is 1000% FACT!!! The Black Panthers have bombed buildings. This is 1000% FACT!!! So, what have we proven? We proved that I was right, liberals HAVE blown up buildings in the name of their causes and that guy was wrong. I notice you said nothing about the other people on that list. Are you admitting I was right? History 101 over.
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before he was severed from th Chicago 7, was a founding member of The Black Panthers, which participated in many bombings. So you see, even when I'm almost wrong, I'm still right!!!
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to let the government have even more control over Health Care than it already does. Everything the government touches turns to shit. As far as the insurance companies orchestrating the town halls, I'd like to see your proof of that. Not to mention, why do you care what the Republicans think? If this loser President could rally his own party, he wouldn't need one single Republican vote...
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They're almost as clueless as you. Almost.
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bought yellowcake uranium from Africa. That was a lie! So, yes Bush did lie about things to get us into an illegal unnecessary war of choice.
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Can we get beyond this. I will say this tough. It was conservative terrorists who orchestrated and executed the attack on the World Trade center on 9/11. Yes, muslim fundamentalist jihadists are right wing extremists. That's fact.
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he wanted to do away with all nuclear weapons and what he did
today is an important first step -
so why give one to europe? i know
the republicans will blast him on
this because there all about defense no matter how wasteful -
McGoo, but you still have yet to prove me wrong on anything I said about Obama. I am NOT practicing hyperbole like most of the people here. I gave you indisputable facts. If anything, our great Teleprompter-In-Chief is being hyperbolic. He makes a speech saying that if Obamacare doesn't pass, people will die!!! Then, he calls those that disagrees with him liars!!! I've given you indisputable facts which you refuse to even try to, well, dispute. Tell me what I'm wrong about, besides the terrorist group the Chicago 7 that started the riots outside the Democrat National Convention that could've gotten a lot worse than they were...
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ill bet u think obama doing away with the missle defense plan is a sign of weakness
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Investors Business Daily: 65% of doctors oppose Obamacare, 45% of doctors would close their practices or retire early if Obamacare passes. Rassmussen Reports: 55% oppose Obamacare 41% support ABC News: Only 48% approve of Obama's handling of Health Care Washington Post: Q-The more I think about Obamacare, the more I like it-A 41%, the more I DIS-like it 55% University of Texas/Zogby Poll: 84% are satisfied with their Health Care CNN: 8 in 10 happy with their Health Care Gallup Poll: Obama overall approval- 51%
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Sep 17, 2009 3:00:44 PM CDT
jaredparker, what do you think of it? I actually don't
by coughlins laws
care that he did that. I think we should stop protecting these countries that hate us. Of course it's a sign of weakness to Putin. But don't you think the timing of this, on the same day we find out Iran can now make a Nuclear Warhead, is kind of bad? Whether or not it will work, it is still a deterent. If nukes are sent at us, we won't necessarrily be destroyed because of our shield. Some might get through but some won't. However, you will definitely be wiped off Planet Earth. It certainly scared the USSR back in the 80's when we first started on SDI...
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im surprised u didnt have something from fixed noise coughlin
just more propaganda as usual -
point out one thing I'm wrong about Obama. Name one thing I've lied about. You're making yourself out to look like an idiot by not being able to come up with anything...
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hes doing away with all of bushs policies and good riddance fuck that retarded texan
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for starters coughlin u lied about them and what about those picket signs with obama as the joker? ru
gonna tell me tose arent racist?
its white paint over a black mans face -
Fuck him, I hope some black dude rapes his mother.
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Pls go back to typing in msg retard speak, it fits with the content of your posts so much better. McGooCain... So you're like a retired dude with nothing better to do than go full tilt Alinsky against enemies of the revolution on an internet message board?
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Not me. I got better things to do, like watching reruns of Top Chef.
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Will it be in 10XL Husky and prestained with chicken grease, mayo and marinara? THAT'S the Michael Moore swag I want. Those DVDs would make great targets for hi high capacity autoloading firearms.
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You honestly believe Cheney didn't cherry pick evidence to forward his own conclusions and advance the agenda of Project For a New American Century? I say this while the majors negotiate with the Iraqi Oil Ministry.
BTW, you are incorrect about the Weather Underground succeeding in blowing anyone up but their own damn selves.
I say this without vitriol or the need to launch a personal attack. It is fascinating how any disagreement around here results in near-death threats. For me, as liberal, its like having my views represented by Kanye West. -
Don't know the slightest thing about PolySci, yet insist on assaulting innocent folks with their nonsensical political blather in order to sroke their pathetic shriveled egos. And the rest of the guppies just keep rising to bait over and over only to be berated with the same hogwash over, and over and over. Listen you brain-damaged troglodytes: If Obama were truly the hard left socialist the right wing lunatic fringe nut cases decry him to be, he would torpedo the health insurance industry, heavily regulate the robber-baron pharmaceutical industry, dissolve Medicare and Medicaid, and promulgate tax-funded, cradle to grave comprehensive health care for all U.S. citzens; and then tell you stupid assholes to go fuck yourselves if you don't like it. You don't know what you're talking about and it's high time you all shut the fuck up.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/insurance-company-must-pa_n_289841.html
Logic dictates it's cheaper to cover someone you promised to cover, but no you want to fuck around with their lives and pay tens of millions in damages instead. And pass on the costs to the other insured so as to maintain your high profits.
THIS is the status quo Coughlins is fighting for. Well, fuck him I say. -
The moment they get a recision letter from their insurer. Bank on that.
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"During the case, evidence emerged that Health Net had paid bonuses to employees to reward them based on the number of policyholders they had rescinded. The judge who awarded Bates the $9 million said in his decision: "It's difficult to imagine a policy more reprehensible than tying bonuses to encourage the rescission of health insurance that keeps the public well and alive."
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/insurance-company-must-pa_n_289841.html -
Bill O'Reilly Backs Public Option (VIDEO)
Bombastic Fox News host Bill O'Reilly made a rather notable policy pronouncement on Wednesday's show: he supports the creation of a government-managed health care plan if it provides working Americans with an affordable option to other private insurance plans.
In other words, he supports the public option now being hotly debated in Congress.
As noted by DailyKos' Jed Lewison, O'Reilly had the following exchange with the Heritage Foundation's Nina Owcharenko:
O'REILLY: The public option now is done. We discussed this, it's not going to happen. But you say that this little marketplace that they're going to set up, whereby the federal government would subsidize insurance for some Americans, that is, in your opinion, a public option?
OWCHARENKO: Well, it has massive new federal regulation. So you don't necessarily need a public option if the federal government is going to control and regulate the type of health insurance that Americans can buy.
O'REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don't like their health insurance, if it's too expensive, they can't afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.
Watch video:
Indeed, supporters of the public option do so for the very reasons O'Reilly notes. A study by the nonpartisan Commonwealth Fund found that "a public coverage program similar to Medicare would reduce projected health care costs by about $2 trillion over 11 years, and reduce premiums by about 20% on average. Within about a decade, 105 million people would be enrolled in the public plan, and about 107 million would have private insurance, according to the Commonwealth Fund."
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/17/bill-oreilly-backs-public_n_290658.html -
Sep 17, 2009 9:55:14 PM CDT
Bill O'Reilly has ALWAYS said he supports a public option...
by starship captain
...But only so long as it was 100% transparent and well-run. And he's repeatedly stated that at the FIRST sign of corruption OR it going even slightly over-budget (and thus expanding the deficit), it should be immediately shut down COMPLETELY and people would have to immediately shift over to private plans.And since we all know the government is so fucking incompetent that it can't run shit or do anything on budget or on time or without corruption overtaking it, why bother? Just dump the public option right from the start and spare the nation the headache. And save all the wasted money before it gets flushed away!
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Are you including the military in calling our government incompetent? Are you denigrating our troops? Why do you hate America?
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I said no such thing. But nice attempt at trying to put words in my mouth. What's next from your Liberal playbook? Let me guess -- since I think Obama is a complete waste of space now I'm RACISSSSSST too?For the record, I salute the troops and have family and friends who have been in the military, both in the past and more recently. And I can assure you, THEY would be among the first to tell you that while those that serve their country are to be saluted and praised, that doesn't change the cold, hard truth that teh Pentagon, the White House Congress...gee, I guess we could say the whole government...are completely incompetent when it comes to running something truly efficiently or on budget.Which was my whole point to begin with. But nice of you to ignore the actual issue at hand, dipshit.
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I thought we were starting to get along on the Trekback.
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can even watch the news or follow it anymore. Now, the news is like potato chips. I catch myself almost every day either watching it, reading some fucking bullshit slanted blog, or clicking around google news until my eyes bleed. However, I've stopped commenting on anything political and started limiting time on the web every day... message boards like these and even blogging in general to a degree are like shouting into a black hole. Nothing comes back. And it leaves you depressed, I think, if you are a sensible person. On EITHER side. What I've also found is that there are many more people out there than are on the net. A video on youtube might be viewed two hundred million times and an article in the huffington post may get 'dugg' into the stratosphere. Now do an experiment... start calling all your relatives and ask around who has seen said video or read said article. I've done it and usually the results are near zero. It made me realize that a majority of the people doing the surfing, commenting, blogging, digging, twittering, etc. on the web actually come from a relatively small group in the real world. I would love to see real, hardcore studies on this, by the way. The net is a place for extremes in opinion and shouting down, because it doesn't involve actively engaging another human being. And the media itself, the political parties, and the corporations are all rejoicing that this form of discourse has become de rigueur, while all the sane ones are either holed up in their caves reading books with the television off or going for walks and... you know, enjoying some PEACE in life because at the end of the day, the commie Obama worshipper and the fascist Bushie will never put down the rhetoric and have an actual conversation... so fuck it, right? To me, there are few things more depressing than the web and the blinded narcissism it foments. At some point, I think that most intelligent people realize that all this blather that we commit ourselves to on a daily basis via the web (I include myself... I'm writing in this TB when I should be doing something else) is somewhat unhealthy and really not changing a damn thing.
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I do not involve myself in political talkbacks here for this key reason: people here can't carry on a civil discussion without dehumanizing or intentionally trying to humiliate their opponents. When I see people on both sides calling each other "Nazi scum" and whatnot, it's like watching two rabid dogs fighting each other over a bone.
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r they trying to incite a race war there trying to get obama killed these conservative assholes has any
one really listened to fucking scumbags? its nothing but hate speech -
the irony of Moore "going after" Capitalism while he himself is a capitalist? I guess Fatboy really does gotta eat, eh?
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My apologies, BSB. I didn't mean to make that sound quite as harsh as it did. Chalk it up to Queen Hag Pelosi pissing me off yet again. Guess I'm just part of the angry "assassination" group she's now fearful of. And, yes, I say that mockingly.Honestly, has there ever been a more ridiculously retarded and fucked up asshole in Congress than Nancy Pelosi? Answer: NO.
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Sep 18, 2009 5:05:32 AM CDT
JaredParker3... a race war? Give me a fucking break!
by starship captain
The Left went after Bush for 8 straight years like rabid dogs. To the Democrats, ANY kind of demeaning or non-respectful sign was perfectly okay to wave with emotional fervor at an anti-Bush rally, and ANY hate-fueled speech was deemed okay as well. After all, Pelosi and the Left said again and again that ANGRY rebellion against Bush or his policies was simply free speech and was patriotism of the highest order.Of course, now that the shoe's on the other foot and America isn't buying the bullshit that Obama and the Left are selling, suddenly a cunt like Nancy Pelosi wants to cry her crocodile tears on camera (like today) all because people are hurting her feelings and talking too rough now.Well, boo-hoo and cry me a river, bitch. That's what you get for calling ANYONE who was legitimately against Obama's policies or your fucked up healthcare plan anti-American, unpatriotic, and even racists. People like Pelosi spent YEARS spewing hate and planting the seeds of discontent whenever it suited THEIR political purposes. Well, guess what? Payback's a bitch. And in the immortal words of Rev. Wright: the Left's chickens have come home to roost.
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to socialised medicine. It's fucking odd.
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About Israel keeping the Palestinians is apartheid-like conditions. And about conservative hatred of Obama largely fueled by racism. He was also right about alternative energy source back in the 70s and if the country had listened to him instead of the oil industry we would not be facing the energy crisis we are nor would be so dependent on foreign oil. It was asshole Reagan who took Carter's solar panels off of the White House as soon as he became President. Carter also wanted to legalize marijuana and release all of the government's knowledge about UFOs.
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although it is explained by the fact that the Media of usa have turned them into sheeps.
the irony,is that here in greece the opposite happens.our economy is so much fucked up because of our corrupted political system that state services like social healthcare,must turn into private ones in order to continue their purpose. -
They've totally taken over the field, have incestuous relationships with hospitals and doctors.
It used to be you could pay a doctor with eggs and chickens. No more. -
I f we don't destroy ourselves someone will do it for us, or at least push us over the edge. there is zero hope. the corporations have taken over and they have all the money.
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And rightly so since the people in power have sold out our country to China. Patriots my ass. Greedy self-interested globalists who don't give a fuck about this country. And that goes for Republicans and Democrats. At least the Dems pretend to want to do something for the little guy. They pit everyone against each other in their successful effort to divide and conquer. The lower class white laborer has more in common with the average black person then the rich elitist fucks who run this country. But, we're so busy hating each other over the stupid talking points they throw us instead of uniting and taking our country back for the people.
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the black woman Army reservist yet? Has he gone on a tirade about how every white person is out to get black people in Obama's America?
No?
Maybe Monday then. -
I consider myself a libertarian, and honestly I'm sure that both sides have almost completely lost there minds. I've always thought Micheal Moore was an ok guy,just trying to expose the BS ,but after hearing him on Jay Leno I think he's lost his fucking marbles too. "Capitalism is just leagalized greed" ? Seriously? He's ok with "people opening there own business and making a living" what the fuck man? I hate the big wig pharmacutical,insurance,and credit congolmorates too. They have conspired to fuck the rest of us for the most part, but capitalism in it's self is a good thing. Does it need work? Sure it does but I ain't ready to give it up anytime soon and I bet his fat ass ain't ready to give his shit away either.
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Sep 18, 2009 12:23:53 PM CDT
always a laught to see the right-wingers bitch about Moore
by asimovlives
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You are a greek? A greek geek? Cool.
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You need to grow up a little. Moore is right. I agree wwith both of those statements. They're very much sane.
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that's what I was getting at in a previous post. The main reason is that people who are rational are tuning out of the entire discourse in droves right now. Like the last poster said, BOTH SIDES HAVE LOST THEIR FUCKING MINDS. Everything has become so reactionary and devoid of any semblance of reality 'on the ground' that it has become nearly impossible (if not actually impossible) to have an intelligent discussion on ANYTHING in this country. Take health care as an example. How anyone could think this current system doesn't need fixing is beyond me. On the other side of the coin, how Obama and friends could actually believe the shit they're shoveling in order to push it through is ALSO beyond me. See how I did that? I held TWO OPPOSING VIEW POINTS because the reality is, they're not actually opposing. One says something is wrong, the other says the way we're currently talking about fixing it could lead to even more and WORSE problems. Because the way things are now, you can opt out of health care or 'shop around'. Admittedly nearly all of your choices involve spending the GDP of a small nation annually for something as necessary as health care, but the alternative could lead to a large, red taped bureaucracy that pushes the country even further into debt because taxpayers simply do not have the money to pony up. The other thing is our economy. The news about it and the ups and downs on wall street as well as commodities like oil have now COMPLETELY unhinged themselves from reality, which is that nobody is spending money like they used to and probably won't ever again. But you wouldn't know that from this latest rally. Just wait until Christmas... mark my words. Fundamentals like... oh, I don't know... SUPPLY AND DEMAND no longer seem to have a place in this investment banker lead economy. When you read an article on consumer spending, it's full of theories and the watching of numbers ticking up and down that have ABSOLUTELY NO-FUCKING-THING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH YOU AND I ARE ACTUALLY SPENDING. So what does that lead to when you have to pay the piper? That's right... ANOTHER CRASH. Then you have credit cards and this belief that something is wrong now that nobody is using them. That is, who do you know that has credit card debt and has NOT decided to pay it off as soon as they can in order to divest themselves of this scourge? I know I am... I have a long way to go, but nothing ups the desire to pay that shit off and tell them all to fuck off like a round of taxpayer financed bailouts followed by a big fuck you in all of the credit companies TOS to long-time customers. They don't seem to realize that they've already dug their own grave. What worries me is that when wall street realizes this trend, which should be viewed as a healthy, progressive, savings oriented one, they are going to all of a sudden say the sky is falling once again and the credit card companies will STILL WIND UP WITH OUR MONEY via futher bailouts. The truth of the matter is, they will no longer be anywhere near as necessary as people are now choosing to live within their means. I wish I could say the same for the government and the rich elite.I recently read an article stating all of this about consumer debt to spending ratios on a downward trend... AS IF IT WERE A BAD THING. As though the fact that debt is being paid off en masse and then not being respent is bad because we're a consumption based society. You see, THAT'S what's fucking scary. That they've created the whole system based on you and I spending ourselves into oblivion and then spending more than half our paychecks on interest to the banks on our slave labor, debt financed lifestyle. How did they think this was sustainable in the long term?Then you have the TOTAL FUCKING INSANITY of the right proclaiming the destruction of the economy and the coming socialist reign when, meanwhile, they didn't open their mouths once when it was Bush in office handing over the treasury to private investment firms, banks, and insurance companies. Where were they then? The flip side of that is that the left doesn't seem to realize the fuck-ups of Bush do not give them a charter to take us into the stratosphere as far as spending. I have NO FUCKING CLUE how we're going to pay for all of this shit with a rapidly eroding tax base. And there's the problem with most of their programs... just as the housing bubble always assumed the value of homes would go up, Obama's plans always assume the tax base will be there and will, in fact, continue to grow. This is patently false as, again, all of the fundamentals have changed yet nobody seems to realize it. It's also one of the reasons I'm not so sure the right isn't correct in their assumption, however flawed and informed by bullshit Limbaugh rhetoric, that all of this spending and all of these programs are just going to lead us into an era where we work strictly for the government to pay for all of its 'services'. The problem is, they don't articulate these concerns very well and, like I said, they don't even present them as such, they present it in talking points for only the most rabid on the right to understand, and who then probably fail to see the ACTUAL danger instead choosing to paint Obama as Stalin or Chairman Mao. Which helps nobody and actually leads us towards our own destruction. Meanwhile, on the left, any criticism of Obama has Pelosi crying and Jimmy Carter calling them racist. This is fine when they're talking about Fox news and cohorts, but the problem, just as it exists on the right, is that they're painting ALL criticism with that brush. So when it comes to compromise or actually figuring things out for the betterment of both sides, nobody wins. And I can't say I blame them with people like Wilson shouting over a presidential speech, Limbaugh sounding as demonic as ever, and Fox News pretty much reporting that Barack shits hammers and sickles. Again, both sides help nobody but their own sick, wanton need to destroy the other and become the ONLY voice, which is another issue altogether. So that's all I got. I'm not sure what we're headed towards, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be good. And all a rational person can do at this point is ignore it, because participating in the 'discussion' has proven to be of no use no matter who is in power. Fundamentals and reality, likewise, seem to have no place in their pie-in-the-sky scenarios and programs... ignore the fact that people have, perhaps irrevocably, changed their spending habits... ignore the eroding tax base... hell, ignore reality altogether! This is America as Wonderland folks... and the only people who are going to enjoy the entire ride are those at the very top for whom there seem to be no consequences, other than the historical record.
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..play my Rosetta Stone CD on how to understand and speak Catonese.;D
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Fucking great post. The "Barack shits hammers and sickles" line had me mixing in tears of joy with the ones of sorrow.
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That post ought to be a Time cover story.
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... can I be in your fan club? I mean, woah dude, you can hold two opposing viewpoints in your head at the same time! I am soooo impressed. You must be some kinda genius huh? Where do I sign up? ... ya' condescending prick...
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... he is attempting to govern from the center. If you disagree with this stayement you simply do not know what you are talking about. And yes, I also am a condescending prick, but at least my world view doesn't come from some republican/democrat/libertarian radio abusing dickhead who's never been out of Iowa. And before you take offence SK229, this post is not directed at you.
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Don't you see!! ______ is lying, _____ only cares about his/her interests. Nobody is thinking about _______ since they are all caught up with _______ and watching that asshole ________ on _______ which brainwashes stupid sheeple. And what about _____? are you really going to tell me that ______ was right? Please, stop repeating your ______ crap and think for a second. _______ and that's a fact, look it up!.
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Sep 18, 2009 3:54:30 PM CDT
Jarv, "free" socialized healthcare and open borders don't mix..
by darth_inedible
That's why Americans are skeptical. Unlike those vanguards of socialized medicine Britain, Sweden and Japan(and Cuba I guess?) the US prides itself on allowing in millions of poor immigrants. I think we can either close the borders and have socialized medicine, or we can keep admitting 2 million immigrants in each year and accept that some of them will have to go without insurance as they work their way up. I can tell you now that we're not going to close the borders, so obviously all "socialized medicine" will mean to the majority of Americans is poorer, rationed care. Why any sane person want that?
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Sep 18, 2009 4:17:16 PM CDT
SK229, the brave part of politics is picking a side...
by darth_inedible
You can rant about how both sides are insane all you want, but there are real issues that define both sides. Prioritize your issues, pick a side and work to influence it for the better or shut up. If spending is your key issue and you don't like the idea of a smooth talking ACORN-Alinskyite community organizer purposefully spending us into oblivion so as to further the intellectual left's battle against the "hegemonic West" don't vote for Obama. OF COURSE as you mentioned the right doesn't communicate as well as the glossy Gramscians of the media establishment-backed left. Christ the far-left spent eight years painting Bush as a cowboy-nazi -chimp... The only reason they seem to"communicate better" is because the right didn't have an ABC/CBS/NBC nightly news pushing the far-left's shit-flinging antics in everyone's face night after night like they do with every Obama hitler-mustache sign they can dig up. If fact they work feverishly every night to make Pelosi seem at least quasi-human.
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Just so you know I wasn't being facetious. I'm hyper-partisan but I appreciate your birds-eye view of the conflict.
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Search your feelings, Padawans.You know this to be true.
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Sep 18, 2009 10:33:59 PM CDT
IF YOU DON'T MIND HEARING FROM A FORMER INDUSTRY INSIDER
by bringingsexyback
BILL MOYERS: Wendell Potter joins us now. Welcome to the Journal.
WENDELL POTTER: Thank you very much for having me here.
BILL MOYERS: You worked for CIGNA 15 years and left last year.
WENDELL POTTER: I did.
BILL MOYERS: Were you pushed out?
WENDELL POTTER: I was not. I left-- it was my decision to leave, and my decision to leave when I did.
BILL MOYERS: Were you passed over for a promotion?
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely not. No.
BILL MOYERS: Had you been well-paid and rewarded by the company?
WENDELL POTTER: Very well-paid. And I, over the years, had many job opportunities, many bonuses, salary increases. So no, I was not. And in fact, there was no further place for me to go in the company. I was head of corporate communications and that was the ultimate PR job.
BILL MOYERS: Did you like your boss and the people you work with?
WENDELL POTTER: I did, and still do. I still respect them.
BILL MOYERS: And they gave you a terrific party when you left?
WENDELL POTTER: They sure did, yeah.
BILL MOYERS: So why are you speaking out now?
WENDELL POTTER: I didn't intend to, until it became really clear to me that the industry is resorting to the same tactics they've used over the years, and particularly back in the early '90s, when they were leading the effort to kill the Clinton plan.
BILL MOYERS: But during this 15 years you were there, did you go to them and say, "You know, I think we're on the wrong side. I think we're fighting the wrong people here."
WENDELL POTTER: You know, I didn't, because for most of the time I was there, I felt that what we were doing was the right thing. And that I was playing on a team that was honorable. I just didn't really get it all that much until toward the end of my tenure at Cigna.
BILL MOYERS: What did you see?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, I was beginning to question what I was doing as the industry shifted from selling primarily managed care plans, to what they refer to as consumer-driven plans. And they're really plans that have very high deductibles, meaning that they're shifting a lot of the cost off health care from employers and insurers, insurance companies, to individuals. And a lot of people can't even afford to make their co-payments when they go get care, as a result of this. But it really took a trip back home to Tennessee for me to see exactly what is happening to so many Americans. I--
BILL MOYERS: When was this?
WENDELL POTTER: This was in July of 2007.
BILL MOYERS: You were still working for Cigna?
WENDELL POTTER: I was. I went home, to visit relatives. And I picked up the local newspaper and I saw that a health care expedition was being held a few miles up the road, in Wise, Virginia. And I was intrigued. -
BILL MOYERS: So you drove there?
WENDELL POTTER: I did. I borrowed my dad's car and drove up 50 miles up the road to Wise, Virginia. It was being held at a Wise County Fairground. I took my camera. I took some pictures. It was a very cloudy, misty day, it was raining that day, and I walked through the fairground gates. And I didn't know what to expect. I just assumed that it would be, you know, like a health-- booths set up and people just getting their blood pressure checked and things like that.
But what I saw were doctors who were set up to provide care in animal stalls. Or they'd erected tents, to care for people. I mean, there was no privacy. In some cases-- and I've got some pictures of people being treated on gurneys, on rain-soaked pavement.
And I saw people lined up, standing in line or sitting in these long, long lines, waiting to get care. People drove from South Carolina and Georgia and Kentucky, Tennessee-- all over the region, because they knew that this was being done. A lot of them heard about it from word of mouth.
There could have been people and probably were people that I had grown up with. They could have been people who grew up at the house down the road, in the house down the road from me. And that made it real to me.
BILL MOYERS: What did you think?
WENDELL POTTER: It was absolutely stunning. It was like being hit by lightning. It was almost-- what country am I in? I just it just didn't seem to be a possibility that I was in the United States. It was like a lightning bolt had hit me.
BILL MOYERS: People are going to say, "How can Wendell Potter sit here and say he was just finding out that there were a lot of Americans who didn't have adequate insurance and needed health care? He'd been in the industry for over 15 years."
WENDELL POTTER: And that was my problem. I had been in the industry and I'd risen up in the ranks. And I had a great job. And I had a terrific office in a high-rise building in Philadelphia. I was insulated. I didn't really see what was going on. I saw the data. I knew that 47 million people were uninsured, but I didn't put faces with that number.
Just a few weeks later though, I was back in Philadelphia and I would often fly on a corporate aircraft to go to meetings.
And I just thought that was a great way to travel. It is a great way to travel. You're sitting in a luxurious corporate jet, leather seats, very spacious. And I was served my lunch by a flight attendant who brought my lunch on a gold-rimmed plate. And she handed me gold-plated silverware to eat it with. And then I remembered the people that I had seen in Wise County. Undoubtedly, they had no idea that this went on, at the corporate levels of health insurance companies.
BILL MOYERS: But you had, all these years, seen premiums rising. People purged from the rolls, people who couldn't afford the health care that Cigna and other companies were offering. This is the first time you came face to face with it?
WENDELL POTTER: Yeah, it was. You know, certainly, I knew people, and I talked to people who were uninsured. But when you're in the executive offices, when you're getting prepared for a call with an analyst, in the financial medium, what you think about are the numbers. You don't think about individual people. You think about the numbers, and whether or not you're going to meet Wall Street's expectations. That's what you think about, at that level. And it helps to think that way. That's why you-- that enables you to stay there, if you don't really think that you're talking about and dealing with real human beings.
BILL MOYERS: Did you go back to corporate headquarters and tell them what you had seen?
WENDELL POTTER: I went back to corporate headquarters. I was trying to process all this, and trying to figure out what I should do. I did tell many of them about the experience I had. And the trip. I showed them some pictures I took while I was down there. But I didn't know exactly what I should do.
You know, I had bills of my own. And it was hard to just figure out. How do I step away from this? What do I do? And this was one of those things that made me decide, "Okay, I can't do this. I can't keep-- I can't." One of the books I read as I was trying to make up my mind here was President Kennedy's "Profiles in Courage."
And in the forward, Robert Kennedy said that one of the president's, one of his favorite quotes was a Dante quote that, "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of moral crisis, maintain a neutrality." And when I read that, I said, "Oh, jeez, I-- you know. I'm headed for that hottest place in hell, unless I say something."
BILL MOYERS: Your own resume says, and I'm quoting. "With the chief medical officer and his staff, Potter developed rapid response mechanisms for handling media inquiries pertaining to complaints." Direct quote. "This was highly successful in keeping most such inquiries from becoming news stories, at a time when managed care horror stories abounded." I mean, you knew there were horror stories out there.
WENDELL POTTER: I did. I did. -
BILL MOYERS: You put these techniques to work, representing Cigna doing the Nataline Sarkisyan case, right?
WENDELL POTTER: That's right.
BILL MOYERS: And that was a public relations nightmare, you called it. Right?
WENDELL POTTER: It was. It was just the most difficult. We call them high profile cases, when you have a case like that — a family or a patient goes to the news media and complains about having some coverage denied that a doctor had recommended. In this case, Nataline Sarkisyan's doctors at UCLA had recommended that she have a liver transplant. But when the coverage request was reviewed at Cigna, the decision was made to deny it.
It was around that time, also, that the family had gone to the media, had sought out help from the California Nurses Association and some others to really bring pressure to bear on Cigna. And they were very successful in getting a lot of media attention, and nothing like I had ever seen before.
PROTESTERS: Shame on Cigna! Shame on Cigna!
WENDELL POTTER: It got everyone's attention. Everyone was focused on that in the corporate offices.
BILL MOYERS: You were also involved in the campaign by the industry to discredit Michael Moore and his film "Sicko" in 2007. In that film Moore went to several countries around the world, and reported that their health care system was better than our health care system, in particular, Canada and England. Take a look at this.
MICHAEL MOORE: I went across the city to a crowded hospital waiting room. How long did you have to wait here to get help?
CANADIAN WOMAN #1: 20 minutes
CANADIAN WOMAN #2: 45 minutes
CANADIAN MAN #2: I got helped right away.
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: You can see how crowded this is. They really do an amazing job.
MICHAEL MOORE: Did you have to get anyone's permission to come to this hospital?
CANADIAN MAN #2: No.
CANADIAN MAN #3: No.
CANADIAN WOMAN #1: No.
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: We can go anywhere we want.
MICHAEL MOORE: You don't have to get pre-approved?
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: No, no. You just--
MICHAEL MOORE: By your own insurance company?
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: Oh no, oh heavens no.
MICHAEL MOORE: Can you choose your own doctor?
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: Oh sure. Oh yes.
MICHAEL MOORE: What's your deductible?
CANADIAN MAN #1: Nothing.
CANADIAN WOMAN #1: I don't think we have any.
CANADIAN MAN #2: I don't know. I don't think there's any as far as I know.
CANADIAN WOMAN #3: It's really a fabulous system for making sure that the least of us and the best of us are taken care of.
BRITISH WOMAN #1: Oh, really it's not like that in the US? No. Not at all, no.
MICHAEL MOORE: So what do you pay to stay here?
BRITISH WOMAN #1: No one pays. They're asking, "How do people pay?" And I said, well there isn't, you don't, you just leave.
BRITISH MAN #1: It's just the insurance. There's no bill at the end of it, as it were.
MICHAEL MOORE: Even with insurance, there's bound to be a bill somewhere. So where's the billing department?
BRITISH WOMAN #1: There isn't really a billing department.
BRITISH WOMAN #2: There's no such thing as a billing department.
MICHAEL MOORE: What did they charge you for that baby?
BRITISH WOMAN #3: Sorry?
MICHAEL MOORE: You've got to pay before you can get out of here, right?
BRITISH WOMAN #3: No.
BRITISH MAN #1: No, no, no. Everything's on NHS.
BRITISH WOMAN #3: This is NHS.
BRITISH MAN #1: You know, it's not America. -
BILL MOYERS: So what did you think when you saw that film?
WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.
BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?
WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.
BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?
[Note: You can download the documents by clicking here and here (PDFs)]
WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.
BILL MOYERS: And there was a political strategy. "Position Sicko as a threat to Democrats' larger agenda." What does that mean?
WENDELL POTTER: That means that part of the effort to discredit this film was to use lobbyists and their own staff to go onto Capitol Hill and say, "Look, you don't want to believe this movie. You don't want to talk about it. You don't want to endorse it. And if you do, we can make things tough for you."
BILL MOYERS: How?
WENDELL POTTER: By running ads, commercials in your home district when you're running for reelection, not contributing to your campaigns again, or contributing to your competitor.
BILL MOYERS: This is fascinating. You know, "Build awareness among centrist Democratic policy organizations--"
WENDELL POTTER: Right.
BILL MOYERS: "--including the Democratic Leadership Council."
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.
BILL MOYERS: Then it says, "Message to Democratic insiders. Embracing Moore is one-way ticket back to minority party status."
WENDELL POTTER: Yeah.
BILL MOYERS: Now, that's exactly what they did, didn't they? They--
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.
BILL MOYERS: --radicalized Moore, so that his message was discredited because the messenger was seen to be radical.
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely. In memos that would go back within the industry — he was never, by the way, mentioned by name in any memos, because we didn't want to inadvertently write something that would wind up in his hands. So the memos would usually-- the subject line would be-- the emails would be, "Hollywood." And as we would do the media training, we would always have someone refer to him as Hollywood entertainer or Hollywood moviemaker Michael Moore.
BILL MOYERS: Why?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, just to-- Hollywood, I think people think that's entertainment, that's movie-making. That's not real documentary. They don't want you to think that it was a documentary that had some truth. They would want you to see this as just some fantasy that a Hollywood filmmaker had come up with. That's part of the strategy.
BILL MOYERS: So you would actually hear politicians mouth the talking points that had been circulated by the industry to discredit Michael Moore.
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.
BILL MOYERS: You'd hear ordinary people talking that. And politicians as well, right?
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely.
BILL MOYERS: So your plan worked.
WENDELL POTTER: It worked beautifully.
BILL MOYERS: The film was blunted, right?
WENDELL POTTER: The film was blunted. It--
BILL MOYERS: Was it true? Did you think it contained a great truth?
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely did.
BILL MOYERS: What was it?
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WENDELL POTTER: That we shouldn't fear government involvement in our health care system. That there is an appropriate role for government, and it's been proven in the countries that were in that movie.
You know, we have more people who are uninsured in this country than the entire population of Canada. And that if you include the people who are underinsured, more people than in the United Kingdom. We have huge numbers of people who are also just a lay-off away from joining the ranks of the uninsured, or being purged by their insurance company, and winding up there.
And another thing is that the advocates of reform or the opponents of reform are those who are saying that we need to be careful about what we do here, because we don't want the government to take away your choice of a health plan. It's more likely that your employer and your insurer is going to switch you from a plan that you're in now to one that you don't want. You might be in the plan you like now.
But chances are, pretty soon, you're going to be enrolled in one of these high deductible plans in which you're going to find that much more of the cost is being shifted to you than you ever imagined.
BILL MOYERS: I have a memo, from Frank Luntz. I have a memo written by Frank Luntz. He's the Republican strategist who we discovered, in the spring, has written the script for opponents of health care reform. "First," he says, "you have to pretend to support it. Then use phrases like, "government takeover," "delayed care is denied care," "consequences of rationing," "bureaucrats, not doctors prescribing medicine." That was a memo, by Frank Luntz, to the opponents of health care reform in this debate. Now watch this clip.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER: The forthcoming plan from Democratic leaders will make health care more expensive, limit treatments, ration care, and put bureaucrats in charge of medical decisions rather than patients and doctors.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL: Americans need to realize that when someone says "government option," what could really occur is a government takeover that soon could lead to government bureaucrats denying and delaying care, and telling Americans what kind of care they can have.
SEN. JON KYL: Washington run healthcare would diminish access to quality care, leading to denials, shortages and long delays for treatment.
REP. JOE WILSON: How will a government run health plan not lead to the same rationing of care that we have seen in other countries?
REP. TOM PRICE: We don't want to put the government, we don't want to put bureaucrats between a doctor and a patient.
BILL MOYERS: Why do politicians puppet messages like that?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, they are ideologically aligned with the industry. They want to believe that the free market system can and should work in this country, like it does in other industries. So they don't understand from an insider's perspective like I have, what that actually means, and the consequences of that to Americans.
They parrot those comments, without really realizing what the real situation is.
I was watching MSNBC one afternoon. And I saw Congressman Zach Wamp from Tennessee. He's just down the road from where I grew up, in Chattanooga. And he was talking-- he was asked a question about health care reform. I think it was just a day or two after the president's first-- health care reform summit. And he was one of the ones Republicans put on the tube.
And he was saying that, you know, the health care problem is not necessarily as bad as we think. That of the uninsured people, half of them are that way because they want to "go naked."
REP. ZACH WAMP: Half the people that are uninsured today choose to remain uninsured. Half of them don't have any choice but half of them choose to, what's called, go naked, and just take the chance of getting sick. They end up in the emergency room costing you and me a whole lot more money.
WENDELL POTTER: He used the word naked. It's an industry term for those who, presumably, choose not to buy insurance, because they don't want to. They don't want to pay the premiums. So he was saying that half... Well, first of all, it's nothing like that. It was an absolutely ridiculous comment. But it's an example of a member of Congress buying what the insurance industry is peddling.
BILL MOYERS: Back in 1993, the Republican propagandist, William Kristol, urged his party to block any health care proposal, in order to prevent the Democrats from being seen as the quote, "generous protector of the middle class." But today, you've got some Democrats who are going along with the industry.
Max Baucus, the senator from Montana, for example, the most important figure right now in this health care legislation that's being written in the Senate. He's resisted including a public insurance option in the reform bill, right?
WENDELL POTTER: That's right.
BILL MOYERS: Why is the industry so powerful on both sides of the aisle?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, money and relationships, ideology. The relationships-- an insurance company can hire and does hire many different lobbying firms. And they hire firms that are predominantly Republican and predominantly Democrat. And they do this because they know they need to reach influential members of Congress like Max Baucus. So there are people who used to work for Max Baucus who are in lobbying firms or on the staff of companies like Cigna or the association itself.
BILL MOYERS: Yeah, I just read the other day, in THE WASHINGTON POST, that Max Baucus's staff met with a group of lobbyists. Two of them had been Baucus's former chiefs of staff.
WENDELL POTTER: Right.
BILL MOYERS: I mean, they left the government. They go to work for the industry. Now they're back with an insider status. They get an access, right?
WENDELL POTTER: Oh, they do, they do. And these lobbyists' ability to raise money for these folks also is very important as well.
Lobbyists, many of the big lobbyists contributed a lot of money themselves. One of the lobbyists for one of the big health insurance company is Heather Podesta, the Podesta Group, and she's married to Tony Podesta, who's a brother of John Podesta. -
BILL MOYERS: Who used to be the White House chief of staff.
WENDELL POTTER: Right. Right. And they're Democrats. And my executives wanted to meet with — and when I say my, the people I used to work for--
BILL MOYERS: At Cigna.
WENDELL POTTER: Yeah, wanted to meet with Hillary Clinton, when she was still in the Senate and still a candidate for president. Well, that's hard to do. That's hard to pull off, but she did. That just shows you that you can, through the relationships that are formed and that the insurance industry pays for, by hiring these lobbyists, you can your foot in the door. You can get your messages across to these people, in ways that the average American couldn't possibly.
BILL MOYERS: So it's money that can buy access to have their arguments heard, right?
WENDELL POTTER: That's right.
BILL MOYERS: When ordinary citizens cannot be heard.
WENDELL POTTER: Absolutely right. It's the way the American system has evolved, the political system. But it does offend me, that the vested special interests, who are so profitable and so powerful, are able to influence public policy in the way that they have, and the way that they've done over the years. And the insurance industry has been one of the most successful, in beating back any kinds of legislation that would hinder or affect the profitability of the companies.
BILL MOYERS: Why is public insurance, a public option, so fiercely opposed by the industry?
WENDELL POTTER: The industry doesn't want to have any competitor. In fact, over the course of the last few years, has been shrinking the number of competitors through a lot of acquisitions and mergers. So first of all, they don't want any more competition period. They certainly don't want it from a government plan that might be operating more efficiently than they are, that they operate. The Medicare program that we have here is a government-run program that has administrative expenses that are like three percent or so.
BILL MOYERS: Compared to the industry's--
WENDELL POTTER: They spend about 20 cents of every premium dollar on overhead, which is administrative expense or profit. So they don't want to compete against a more efficient competitor.
BILL MOYERS: You told Congress that the industry has hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street. You said, "I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors." How do they satisfy their Wall Street investors?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, there's a measure of profitability that investors look to, and it's called a medical loss ratio. And it's unique to the health insurance industry. And by medical loss ratio, I mean that it's a measure that tells investors or anyone else how much of a premium dollar is used by the insurance company to actually pay medical claims. And that has been shrinking, over the years, since the industry's been dominated by, or become dominated by for-profit insurance companies. Back in the early '90s, or back during the time that the Clinton plan was being debated, 95 cents out of every dollar was sent, you know, on average was used by the insurance companies to pay claims. Last year, it was down to just slightly above 80 percent.
So, investors want that to keep shrinking. And if they see that an insurance company has not done what they think meets their expectations with the medical loss ratio, they'll punish them. Investors will start leaving in droves.
I've seen a company stock price fall 20 percent in a single day, when it did not meet Wall Street's expectations with this medical loss ratio.
For example, if one company's medical loss ratio was 77.9 percent, for example, in one quarter, and the next quarter, it was 78.2 percent. It seems like a small movement. But investors will think that's ridiculous. And it's horrible.
BILL MOYERS: That they're spending more money for medical claims.
WENDELL POTTER: Yeah.
BILL MOYERS: And less money on profits?
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And they think that this company has not done a good job of managing medical expenses. It has not denied enough claims. It has not kicked enough people off the rolls. And that's what-- that is what happens, what these companies do, to make sure that they satisfy Wall Street's expectations with the medical loss ratio.
BILL MOYERS: And they do what to make sure that they keep diminishing the medical loss ratio?
WENDELL POTTER: Rescission is one thing. Denying claims is another. Being, you know, really careful as they review claims, particularly for things like liver transplants, to make sure, from their point of view, that it really is medically necessary and not experimental. That's one thing. And that was that issue in the Nataline Sarkisyan case.
But another way is to purge employer accounts, that-- if a small business has an employee, for example, who suddenly has have a lot of treatment, or is in an accident. And medical bills are piling up, and this employee is filing claims with the insurance company. That'll be noticed by the insurance company.
And when that business is up for renewal, and it typically is up, once a year, up for renewal, the underwriters will look at that. And they'll say, "We need to jack up the rates here, because the experience was," when I say experience, the claim experience, the number of claims filed was more than we anticipated. So we need to jack up the price. Jack up the premiums. Often they'll do this, knowing that the employer will have no alternative but to leave. And that happens all the time.
They'll resort to things like the rescissions that we saw earlier. Or dumping, actually dumping employer groups from the rolls. So the more of my premium that goes to my health claims, pays for my medical coverage, the less money the company makes.
BILL MOYERS: So, the more of my premium that goes to my health claims, pays for my medical coverage, the less money the company makes.
WENDELL POTTER: That's right. Exactly right.
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BILL MOYERS: So they want to reverse that. They don't want my premium to go for my health care, right?
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly right. They--
BILL MOYERS: Where does it go?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, a big chunk of it goes into shareholders' pockets. It's returned to them as part of the investment to them. It goes into the exorbitant salaries that a lot of the executives make. It goes into paying sales, marketing, and underwriting expenses. So a lot of it goes to pay those kinds of administrative functions. Overhead.
BILL MOYERS: When a member of Congress asked the three executives who appeared before the committee-- if they would end the practice of canceling policies for sick enrollees, they refused. Why did they refuse?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, they were talking to Wall Street at that moment. They were saying that because-- I guess they might have to spend some additional dollars to be more vigilant, to make sure that they were not rescinding a policy inappropriately. It makes no sense. The only reason they would have said that is to cover themselves. And to send a signal to Wall Street that you know, we're going to continue business as usual here.
You know, I've been around a long time. And I have to say, I just don't get this. I just don't understand how the corporations can oppose a plan that gives the unhealthy people a chance to be covered. And they don't want to do it themselves.
Well, keep in mind, what they want to do is enhance their profits. Enhance shareholder value. That's number one. And the way that the business that they're in is health care, certainly. But their primary motivation is to reward their shareholders.
Most of the shareholders are large, institutional investors and hedge funds. Hedge fund managers are the ones who look at the stock. And investors for large organizations. It's not mom and pop investor.
BILL MOYERS: You wrote a column with the headline, "Obama's false friends of health reform." You use as a prime example a man named Ron Williams, who is at the top of the list of insurance executives in terms of their compensation. We actually saw Ron Williams at President Obama's Town Hall meeting .
RON WILLIAMS: I would commend the president for the commitment he's made to really try to get and keep everyone covered. And I think as a health insurance company we are committed to that.
BILL MOYERS: Who is Ron Williams, and why do you use him as the example of what Wall Street expects and wants from the insurance companies?
WENDELL POTTER: He has, apparently, had a seat at the table of health care discussion. He was recruited by Aetna from WellPoint. Aetna had gone on a buying binge. There's been an enormous amount of consolidation in the health insurance industry over the last several years. Aetna bought a lot of competitors.
It reached 21 million members. And, but what it realized and what investors began to see is that a lot of the businesses that it had bought were not all that profitable. So they were in Aetna was in a pickle. And they saw their stock price starting to plummet. So they brought-- among the things they did was bring Ron Williams in. And Williams, among the first thing he did was order a revamp of the IT system, so that--
BILL MOYERS: The information technology system--
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly, so that the company could determine more about which accounts were not profitable or margining profitable. So with that new system, he was able, and the other executives to identify the accounts that they wanted to get rid of. And over the course of a very few years, they shed eight million members.
BILL MOYERS: Eight million policy holders?
WENDELL POTTER: Eight million people, men, women, and children, yes.
Some of them were shed by intention. Some, I'm sure, probably walked because the-- or left for whatever other reason, but they intentionally had this program to purge these accounts. Eight million fewer people were enrolled in Aetna's plans. Many of them undoubtedly joined the ranks of the uninsured, because their employers had been purged.
BILL MOYERS: So what happened to Aetna's stock?
WENDELL POTTER: Went up. And it has--
BILL MOYERS: And so did Ron's--
WENDELL POTTER: And--
BILL MOYERS: --compensation, right?
WENDELL POTTER: Ron's compensation and his stock on Wall Street.
RON WILLIAMS: And so I think in the context of thinking about a government plan, what we say is, let's identify the problem we're trying to solve. Let's work collaboratively with physicians, hospitals, and other health care professionals, and make certain that we solve the problem, as opposed to introduce a new competitor who has the rulemaking ability that government would have.
BILL MOYERS: You know, there's an irony, because you hear the companies and their trade groups talking about how we don't want a public option that would put a bureaucrat between a patient and his doctor. But you've just described a situation in which a CEO is actually between a doctor and the patient,
WENDELL POTTER: It's true. And that same thing happened, in the Nataline Sarkisyan case. You had a corporate bureaucrat making a decision on coverage. So, they are trying to make you worry. And fear a government bureaucrat being between you and your doctor. What you have now is a corporate bureaucrat between you and your doctor.
BILL MOYERS: Whose motive is profit. Understandably, naturally, profit.
WENDELL POTTER: Right. -
Sep 18, 2009 10:43:50 PM CDT
FINAL STRETCH - HOPE BEAKS DOESN'T MIND THIS BUT IT'S IMPORTANT
by bringingsexyback
BILL MOYERS: But companies, any company is in business to make a profit, right?
WENDELL POTTER: Oh, absolutely.
BILL MOYERS: So how can you object? How can we object when an insurance company wants to increase its profits? That's a serious question. I mean, it sounds like a set-up but it's a serious question.
WENDELL POTTER: It's a very serious question. And I think that people who are strong advocates of our health care system remaining as it is, very much a free market health care system, fail to realize that we're really talking about human beings here. And it doesn't work as well as they would like it to. Yeah, there's nothing wrong. And I'm a capitalist as well. I think it's a wonderful thing that companies can make a profit. But when you do it in such a way that you are creating a situation in which these companies are adding to the number of people who are uninsured and creating a problem of the underinsured then that's when we have a problem with it, or at least I do.
BILL MOYERS: This is the key question for me. Can health reform that includes a public plan actually rid our system of the financial incentive on the part of the insurance industry to provide less for more?
WENDELL POTTER: It will help. It would help. Would it rid it? No, I don't think it would, because of the for-profit structure that is now dominant in this country. But the public plan would do a lot to keep them honest, because it would have to offer a standard benefit plan. It would have to operate more efficiently, as does the Medicare program. It would be structured, I'm certain on a level playing field, so that it wouldn't be unfair advantage to the private insurance companies. But because it could be administered more efficiently, then the private insurers, they would have to operate more efficiently. And that 20 cents in that medical loss ratio we talked about earlier might get narrower. And they don't want that.
BILL MOYERS: As this debate unfolds in the next month, into the fall, what should we be watching for? Tell us as an insider what to look for that is more than meets the eye?
WENDELL POTTER: Well, what happens is they will continue this charm offensive, until there's actual legislative language. And what that means, of course, is that right now, you're not really seeing the bills before the House and the Senate that will actually be voted on. When we see the actual legislation, when there's something before Congress, and it will happen, presumably, within the next few weeks, you'll start seeing a lot more criticism of it.
And the special interests will be attacking this or that. The AMA will be upset about something. The pharmaceutical industry will be upset about something. The insurance industry will not like this or that. It's, you know, a lot of money is made in this country off sick people. And then you'll start seeing a lot more of the behind-the-scenes attacks on this legislation, in an attempt to kill it. The status quo is what would work best for these industries.
BILL MOYERS: In other words, if the industry is able to kill reform, or the Democrats and the Republicans can't agree on a proposal, that's what the industry really wants.
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And it happened in '93 and '94. And just about every time there has been significant legislation before Congress, the industry has been able to kill it. Yeah, the status quo works for them. They don't like to have any regulation forced on them or laws forced on them. They don't want to have any competition from the federal government, or any additional regulation from the federal government. They say they will accept it. But the behavior is that they will not-- you know, they'll not do anything after say this plan fails.
Say nothing happens. They're saying now what they did in '93, '94. "We think preexisting conditions is a bad thing," for example. Let's watch and see if they really take the initiative to do anything constructive. I bet you won't see it. They didn't then.
BILL MOYERS: Well, on the basis of the past performance, and on the basis of your own experience in the industry, can we believe them when they say they will do these things voluntarily?
WENDELL POTTER: I don't think you can. I think that they will implement things that make them more efficient. And that enhance shareholder value. And if what they do contributes to that, maybe so. But now, they do say, they are in favor of an individual mandate. They want us all to be insured.
BILL MOYERS: For the government to require every one of us to have some policy.
WENDELL POTTER: Exactly. And that sounds great. It is an important thing that everyone be enrolled in some kind of a benefit plan. They don't want a public plan. They want all the uninsured to have to be enrolled in a private insurance plan. They want-- they see those 50 million people as potentially 50 million new customers. So they're in favor of that. They see this as a way to essentially lock them into the system, and ensure their profitability in the future. The strategy is as it was in 1993 and '94, to conduct this charm offensive on the surface. But behind the scenes, to use front groups and third-party advocates and ideological allies. And those on Capitol Hill who are aligned with them, philosophically, to do the dirty work. To demean and scare people about a government-run plan, try to make people not even remember that Medicare, their Medicare program, is a government-run plan that has operated a lot more efficiently.
And also, the people who are enrolled in our Medicare plan like it better. The satisfaction ratings are higher in our Medicare program, a government-run program, than in private insurance. But they don't want you to remember that or to know that, and they want to scare you into thinking that through the anecdotes they tell you, that any government-run system, particularly those in Canada, and UK, and France that the people are very unhappy.
And that these people will have to wait in long lines to get care, or wait a long time to get care. I'd like to take them down to Wise County. I'd like the president to come down to Wise County, and see some real lines of Americans, standing in line to get their care.
BILL MOYERS: Wendell Potter thank you very much for being with me on the Journal
WENDELL POTTER: Thank you for inviting me.
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Sep 18, 2009 10:47:25 PM CDT
SK229, I THINK SOME OF YOUR POINTS ARE REFLECTED THERE
by bringingsexyback
And Hobonode, you are so fucking right.
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You have to take sides? I'm being condescending? I get my views from some radio dude and have never been out of Iowa? (yea... it wasn't directed at me... ok) I don't listen to ANY of this bullshit, I only read about it and have never listened to talk radio unless forced to. I actually think Obama could be a great president and he has some of the right ideas, but I think his spending based upon tax income projections is absolutely batshit insane. This country DOES NOT HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THE MAJORITY OF THIS SHIT. It doesn't now and it will have even less of it in the future. The only way to meet all of these future obligations is to start taxing everyone at fifty percent. And the conservatives are full of shit... their boy got us into this mess and now that we elected a Democrat we thought could get us out, conservatives are suddenly... conservative? Fuck them, if you put one of theirs back in the White House, he or she would hand the keys right back over to big business. The point of all this is, I see neither side truly realizing that there has been a fundamental shift in our economy away from profligate discretionary spending and that it WILL NOT GO BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS IN OUR LIFETIME. Obama's spending programs are based upon a belief that it will. In my opinion, this is false and its going to lead to a gigantic meltdown of our economy and the value of the dollar in the future. Either that or, like I said, we'll all be living in government assisted housing and working to pay for all of these programs. With the Democrats, it's their social net (and I don't just mean health care and welfare... I mean things like the INSANE amount of police in New Jersey, unnecessarily large school boards, unions, and every other federal or state level job in which taxpayers are beholden to everyone they hire for the rest of their lives) and with the Republicans it's the fucking even more insidious 'corporate net'. Mark my words, when the credit card companies start panicking because their 'services' are no longer needed and suddenly our 'credit rating' is dependent upon the balance you carry from month to month (the larger the amount, the higher your rating... convenient for them, huh?) the pigs will want us to bail them out once again. Both sides are no longer living in reality and I'm not being condescending by saying that we all need to start seeing the hypocrisy and divorce from reality on both sides... you have got to be kidding me when you say it's condescending to talk about the ability to hold two opposing view points. That's a HUGE part of the problem and if you don't recognize that, I can't help you... too many people on both sides have become zombies for their party, towing the line and not questioning anything as long as 'the party' says that's what we should do. Why? Because its intellectually easier to drink the Kool Aid and believe that as long as YOUR side prevails, all will be alright in the world. Thats fucking sick... and I hope more people start to realize that we're being bamboozled by people who have no idea how the majority of us live.... on BOTH sides.
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My own feeling on health care is that we were fucked the second GIGANTIC profit windfalls and annualized GROWTH were yoked to something as fundamentally important (perhaps THE most important thing) as our health. But on the flip side, our government isn't the best and running something efficiently, are they? It's a tough question, but I think it goes to the heart of a much bigger problem - that even though I might want a public option on healthcare, I'm not so sure it's better than going to the root of the problem before instigating it, and that is, making government run more efficiently. Government jobs and programs should be no more guaranteed than our jobs. Same with unionized labor. Even as jobs flee overseas, at some point, workers in those countries will unionize and set minimum standards of pay, and it will start out all well and good, and eventually become their own hindrance to growth and then the jobs will move some place else. There's one underlying fundamental that perhaps makes it impossible for any system to ever reach equilibrium - human greed.
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I was just trying to be some what rational while making a point. Point being someone who is making million's in this country, some one who I normaly agree with, is leaning a little to far in the socialist camp. I'm glad he thinks it's "ok" if I want to risk my neck to open a business and make "some money" as long as I don't get to greedy. I should be more mature and grow up. I will starting now..... Fuck you and your shitty nutcase agenda. You're sounding almost as bad as the Glen Beck cultist. Is that better? Hope so. I'm going back to movie news fucktards. Been at this talkback one two many times. Flame on, one of you might actualy conivince the other ones that you're right and they are wrong.
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... … but it isn't all about you. My somewhat hypocritical proclamation of "Condescending Prick" derived from a single sentence in one of your posts: "See how I did that? I held TWO OPPOSING VIEW POINTS because the reality is, they're not actually opposing." Your sense of self importance, and the level of credence you give to your own ideas is fairly staggering. Do you seriously think anything you're stating here hasn't been said before and more eloquently? Or exhibits some profound level of insight the rest of us poor misguided losers can't hope to match? What are you about twenty five? Get over yourself.
The other post didn't have anything to do with you, but I knew you would think it did, thus the disclaimer. That post was directed at the idiots who insist on calling Obama socialist/communist.(they aren't at all the same thing BTW, but of course you already knew that right?), when he quite clearly is not. In fact he would be considered a moderate centrist in the political systems found in virtually every industrialized nation in the world. It's only within the context of the conservative, religious, backward looking society of the United States that he would ever be considered a radical socialist/communist/hyper liberal/etc. PAX, and have fun with the self aggrandizement thing.
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healthcare [insurance ] reform, please consider this: There are literally millions of americans who hate their jobs and would like nothing better than to start their own entrepreneurial business. But they stick with what they've got beause of employer based healthcare insurance. Does not every "free market capitalism" pundit wax poetic over the virtues the entrepreneurial U.S. economy?
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What does how fat and ugly MM is have to do with ANYTHING? I'll site just two examples of "fat and ugly" men who changed the world and contributed mightily: Winston Churchhill & Alfred Hitchcock. Not to mention: David Hume, Teddy Roosevelt, BB King, Fats Waller, Charles Laughton, etc etc etc. Blah blah blah...
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Where's the Free Movie Screenings For Philly ?
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Sorry to bust your bubble bat725, but Christians - by FAR - give the largest amount of money charitably. Conservatives give more money charitably than Liberals by a factor of TEN! So, don't pontificate about Christians and their obligation to help the poor.
Christian Conservatives have a problem with the government's utterly inept management of any program set up to "help the poor". They have problems with giving money for abortions, ACORN, immoral artists, stem cell research using fetal tissue from abortion and on and on.
Christians have no problem with giving, they give more than anyone else COMBINED (yes, combined - check the stats). What they have a problem with is giving money to black holes that gobble up money and help no one. They have a problem with giving money to programs that don't help people get out of poverty, but instead ensure that they remain there.
When Liberals give even HALF of what Conservatives give, then you can open your mouth. Until then, just say thank-you and shut up. -
because they are making the rest of us true, fiscal conservatives look bad; I pray that revelation does happen one day, just so a Zombie like Barry Goldwater can have the chance to rise from his crypt and 86 Sarah "Who the fuck needs to look at a map" Palin. It's absurd that evangelicals bitch about government funded abortions while at the same time opting to send more men and women into a middle eastern death trap. I'm sure more people would have children if the far right wasn't trying their hardest to keep them uninsured... When you say "charitable conservatives give more money to charity", in my mind that translates to, "the richest 1% donate the most because they get a kick ass tax write off"; programs like Toys for tots, and make a wish are however Christian lead groups but get their money from people of various faiths.
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Jesus Christ is fine by me, don't associate my intolerance towards the radical religious with people try to live their life through Christs teachings. It just upsets me that zealots have literally shanghaied a political party to promote their own, very non Christ like agenda while claiming to have to God on their side. Would Jesus be against health care for everyone?
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Oct 18, 2009 4:31:52 AM CDT
Or spit and curse women going into a planned parenthood for an a
by chuckimania
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was Micheal Moore's truest cinematic effort.
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Just because he's a Lib means he can't make his own films? yeah, ok. Suure
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