Cool News
There's A Script Review Of Bruckheimer & Depp's LONE RANGER Online!!
SPOILER ALERT !!
Merrick here...
Latino Review has a look at the script for THE LONE RANGER. This was written by Ted Elliot and Terry Rossio - who also scripted the PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN films. Seems they're bringing a decidedly more serious tone to this one.
Funny that this review comes in today; I literally just added THE LEGEND OF THE LONE RANGER to my Netflix instant viewing queue a day or two ago...although I'm not sure why.
The review can be seen via the embed below, which originates HERE.
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First!
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I just can't see this being fun.Zorro-was acutally DAMN GOOD-and I would've never gueseed that.But that was a shot in the dark.
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I just wanna read the damn thing so I can skim it.
Also, who gives a shit about The Lone Ranger? -
Why do they have to be a video? Probably because they say next to nothing about the movie as usual. Pass.
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Wondering how Johnny Depp will cover up the tattoos?
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Pirates 2 could have been fun, and Pirates 3 was just an absolute mess. I don't have much faith. But Depp as Tonto and hopefully Clooney as Lone Ranger would kick ass.
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Come back to us, Klinton.
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Sep 10, 2009 12:56:53 PM CDT
Latino Review is a condom that fits snugly over any studio cock.
by flynn_lives
Nobody watches these shitty videos. Nobody wants to read them spinning Marvel stories in Fox's favor and nobody is fooled into believing they exist for any reason other than to dance at the behest of studio "interactive marketing" departments or promote their "friends" in the industry. You get two types of stories at Latino Review: re-typed press releases and their own uninformed, meandering speculation.
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Cowboys? A guy with a mask and a gun? That genre died in the 70's. It has no relevance or excitement factor now.
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I stopped watching when half of the video was over and the review had yet to even start. I don't give a shit about the history of the Lone Ranger productions. I just wanted a script review.
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edit
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Loved the TV show. Not too happy with the choice of writers though. Weren't they the geniuses behind Treasure Island... IN SPACE!?
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I'm on a slow connection here, I couldn't get past the intro with the Justice song they didn't pay for.
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Sep 10, 2009 1:13:56 PM CDT
ugh who wants to sit and listen to this shit? write it down!
by haterofcrap
lame idea for a movie anyway... the show sucked.
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Here's an idea: let's take the instant information medium that is the internet, and force the users who are on sites for quick, easily digestible information to sit through a self-important, bloated, craptacular video. Yeah, thanks for that.
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Sep 10, 2009 1:17:58 PM CDT
There was nothing wrong with the scripts on pirates
by talkbacker with no name
2 and 3 it was the direction and editing.
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Lone Ranger = ass bandit. Totally ghey doood.
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who are you kidding? like you have something better to do with your day. Just watch the fucking thing and quit being such a fucking whiner!
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Sounds interesting, but seems much more about him than the Ranger.
Before they mentioned Depp as Tonto, my first thought was, "I bet they get that Twilight Werewolf kid to play him" -
If the producers and screenwriters aren't lifting liberally from the Dynamite comic book series, especially the first six issues for the origin of the Ranger, then they're missing out. It's already storyboarded, even. Someone get these guys to a comic shop.
...oh, and I'd like to know what the review said, as well. -
Sep 10, 2009 1:42:11 PM CDT
The Legend of the Lone Ranger is the worst dvd ever produced!
by the reluctant austinite
Merrick, despite the fact that "The Legend of the Lone Ranger" isn't really a good movie (it's kind of terrible and somewhat boring in the first hour), I'm a little soft on it. It has got a lot to do with the time it was released and the marketing campaign that reminded me of "Clash of the Titans" (same type of poster artwork, action figures, etc.), and I like the John Barry musical score. However, one of the best things about the movie is the sharp 2.35/1 Panavision cinematograpy which is completely lost on this ancient pan-n-scan transfer from an old VHS tape. You'll groan as the VHS transfer pops and skips frames and "video noise" lines roll up and down the screen. I don't why they bothered pressing dvds at all.
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Reading "Bruckheimer & Depp's LONE RANGER" alone made it the most hillarious thing i have seen all day. I'm still crying from laughing to hard.
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The Lone Ranger is a dead franchise and has been dead for thirty odd years for a good reason. It's just not relevant or interesting anymore. The time of cowboys and injuns is just past. The last REALLY good western I've seen was Unforgiven.
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Means I can listen to them while I do the dishes.
As for what I heard... MASK OF ZORRO was awesome, one of the best adventure movies ever, and very old-school. Pity that the sequel (written by Orci and Kurtzman, the hacks!) was such a thoroughly modern mess. So if this LONE RANGER thing (the mythology of which I'm not familiar with) hews in the direction of the first, I'm all for that.
I'm not sure how I feel about the supernatural element, though. At least it's something obscure and vaguely Native American; if not for Supernatural, I wouldn't even know what a wendigo is.
The plot description in and of itself is very basic and somewhat clichéd; it'll be the details that were left out of the review that will make or break the film. -
...that's...interesting. I can't be bothered to watch this, can someone chew the video up and regurgitate it into my mouth please?
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Sep 10, 2009 2:03:49 PM CDT
My problem with the video is he speaks so freaking slow
by iamnicksaicnsn
Is english not his first language? I mean shit, get it together dude. All that information could have been told at least 2 minute shorter.
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Sep 10, 2009 2:08:42 PM CDT
...so Tonto puts his ear to the ground and says "buffalo cum"...
by flickapoo
...and the Lone Ranger says "you can hear the thunder of hoofs in the ground?", and Tonto replies "...no....ear sticky!". That's all folks!...
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...Overture on electric guitar by Miley Cyrus and Linkin Park in surround sound? Please god let it be so...
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Sounds good to me. Rossio & Elliot are hit-and-miss, but when they're good (Aladdin, Zorro, POTC3), I'm having fun.
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in the theaters. I was 4 years old, so I couldn't judge it. From what I hear, it wasn't a good movie.
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It was boring, slow, inept, poorly acted *and* a box office bomb.
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And yes, he COULD have been a great Batman,...in the right movie.
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Especially Latino Review ones. Way too much build up at the start with little information at the end. The interwebs are become too video focused in my opinion. Doesnt anyone care about the working man sneaking peeks at websites while trying to keep his bandwidth down? Its becoming all about ipod kids with their rock and roll and complicated shoes.
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Make it so.
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Why not just get a native american to play Tonto. And not Depp. See this is why they are drinking themselves do death and opening up casinos to get all your money white people. It's pay back for making the one positive "Indian" character in cinema not including Squanto or the one in the cupboard a white dude in red face. I know originally Tonto was a white guy in red face but this needs to be rectified in todays society. It's just wrong. I don't want to sound like a fucking hippie because I hate hippies (take a fucking bath, and use d.e.o.d.o.r.a.n.t). But it's just a racist thing to do. Unless they make it like a spoof in which Depp is a swindler trying to hide from some people who want him dead so acts like an a typical injun to hide in plain sight. Still it's fucked up. Funny but fucked up.
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I mean really do I need some neophyte on screen blabbing about a script he read? TAKE THE FUCKING TIME TO WRITE DIPSHIT... Thanks.
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I want to read, I don't want to watch.
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"I literally just added THE LEGEND OF THE LONE RANGER to my Netflix instant viewing queue a day or two ago"As opposed to figuratively doing so? (People always misuse the word "literally.")
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Nice work, as usual. Personally, I enjoy these well-produced, little script videos.
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Then you probably haven't seen "Open Range"... Really good western. The problem is that Leone gave us THE definitive western and the truth of the mater is that American style westerns just aren't as exciting. "Unforgiven" is the exception, of course; but who directed it? The absolute PERFECT person for the job. Eastwood learned from the master himself and was in my opinion, just as important to the crafting and success of the spaghetti-western genre as Leone was.
The Lone Ranger is a cool character and will always be relevant as long as he's written w/ style and conviction.
Sorry for the rant. I just have a soft spot for westerns, haha. -
i read somewhere, maybe in vanity fair i think, in an interview with depp where he said that the lone ranger would be a bit of a bafoon and tonto would be the straight man... something to that effect. god i hope that idea gets scraped! that would be a real egotistical move on depp's behalf, surely the producers won't allow it, but from the comments of that script review where they say that tonto is the standout character and a real badass, i'm a little bit scared
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I thought they where more into cold weather.
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Depp has good part of Cheyenne in him (I think, or Cherokee), so I'm not exactly sure how him being cast is rascist.
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no that's not really misusing the word 'literally'... i know what you're getting at, but the word 'literally' can mean 'without exaggeration or inaccuracy'. he used the word to emphasise the importance of the word 'just'. to signify the fact that he really had 'just' added it to his netflick queue a day or two ago. there's nothing wrong about using it in that context
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Well I stand corrected. ... OR do I. If he does have Cherokee in him it's probably as much as me 1/8 but I'm considered a black dude. And don't ge me started on Kristen Kruek as Chun Li. Is no one going to get me started??? I'm such a dick someti most times.
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I'm generally not a fan of script reviews, but LR's video script reviews are always informative, entertaining, and they have good judgment. And that script sounded pretty good. I hope a decent director gets attached. I trust one will, because Depp has enough power now that he can choose who he works with, and his judgment is sound.
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His Grandmother is Cherokee, which means he's 1/4. The rest will be filled in by acting...it's why they're called actors.
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I'd like her as Adolph Hitler. It really doesn't matter who she plays.
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Yes. Me.
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Seth Rogen, Will Smiff and Spam Jackson aren't in it
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But can't stop throwing praise at the idea of Batman.
Which character sounds faker or more ridiculous - a former Texas Ranger who survived and ambush now on a mission to get justice armed with a pair of six shooters and set in a time period when the law and civilization didn't have a long reach, or...
A guy who dresses as a bat to fight crime, using only his fist all all these hi-tech gizmos, and no one has yet to figure out that he is billionaire Bruce Wayne.
I am always amazed by what people will accept and what people won't accept on these geek sites. -
Any man who doesn't like a western isn't really a man, IMO (tongue-in-cheek firmly planted).
But unfortunately The Lone Ranger is a kiddie, super-hero Western. Fuck, why doesn't the western genre come back. Haven't we had enough superhero movies already? -
1) Wendigo is part of the Algonquian-speaking Northern tribes of the US and Canada. How the fuck does that belief get down to Texas? It would be like saying that Odin is worshipped by the Greeks.
2) They never make movies with Native American characters for Native American actors, and when they finally do they cast Johnny Depp because he is 1/4th Cherokee. Sorry, but that is wrong. And that isn't me being PC, but Johnny Depp as an Indian is just 75% less racist than when white actors used to wear red makeup. This is just 3/4 of the way to being Red Face. -
Sep 10, 2009 4:43:18 PM CDT
C-lop, was Johnny Depp's eyeliner in the PIRATES movies insensit
by yackbacker
Gay men?
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Fuck AICN, take the limit off the headline characters!
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Yeah, another reason video reviews suck is because you have to listen to some guy's stupid voice and accent. If you can't get a professional sounding person with a good speaking voice don't let the dweeb in the next cubicle do it.
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I'm a huge fan of westerns and even a bigger fan of the Lone Ranger. I actually met Clayton Moore when I was a kid. I hope they don't turn this into some ridiculous buddy action/comedy a la Shanghai Noon. I would, however, like to see this done in a grittier(not necessarily darker) realistic way. With the Lone Ranger as an avenger/lawman, but still a hero of the old west, and Tonto as a total badass native warrior. Of course, reality dictates this won't happen.
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...what exactly IS relevant?
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that was just exposition details with hardly an ounce of opinion on how it all comes together in the writing. Knew it wouldn't be much of an "update" when the first half of the video was all about the history of the Lone Ranger franchise instead of the stupid script. Whatever. I'll wait until there's some real news on this to give a shit.
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I am not excited about Depp as Tonto in the least, and I happen to really like Depp. Their are plenty of real life Native Americans who can play a Native American without casting Koreans, Phillipinos, or just getting White actors in "red face". Michael Spears comes to mind for the roll of Tonto.
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Native Americans have less choice about how they are born with red skin.
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Oh yes, I was just being douchey for comic effect. How ya been otherwise?
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Why the hell are people writing it off just because it's "the Lone Ranger" or they think Westerns are dead and buried as a genre?? We all groaned when we heard they were making ANOTHER movie about a Disney ride (and we thought about Eddie Murphy in Haunted Mansion or that disgutsingly fuckin bad Country Bears movie!) We groaned when that new movie was going to be another "pirate" movie which hadn't been "hip" since....um, Errol Flynn? The last big pirate movie we had (at least in the States) was Cutthroat Island, and I think today's lack of Renny Harlin shows how we all felt about THAT movie. And, to the point someone make up above, what about when they announced the Mask of Zorro movie a decade ago? We were like "oh great. Well, at least it'll have Zeta-Jones." And now you guys are poo-pooing this for the same fucking reasons. And, by the way, it's the same fucking writers as Pirates and Zorro. If anything, we might be a little Depp weary these days, but at least he's a quality actor, not some Disney young-stud-of-week who we've never heard of and don't give a shit b/c they have no acting range and are way too young for the role. This pic will be fun and maybe, just maybe, help revive the Western as a "cool" genre once again, the way Pirates revived...pirates (allow myself to introduce....myself.) so, fuck the naysayers.
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but I HATE PROOFREADING!
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And I should start wearing pants in public. There's a lot of room for improvement for us all! Relax, it's all good, baby. What are you going as for Halloween this year? I need ideas.
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WORD!
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I didn't think you were being sincere.
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I want written. They way if the writing is no good you can scim.
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for Lone Ranger. To ensure his movie stardom he needs another big blockbuster (like Star Trek). This could be perfect and people would no longer call him Kirk. Only bad thing is that this is ANOTHER old TV show being turned into a movie.
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The Ranger was a serious Boy's Adventure story. It wasn't Roy Rodgers singing to his horse or Gene Autry defending the world from an underground civilization while hosting a radio show that had to go on every day or he'll be evicted, framed for murder by evil research scientists, and disappoint the poor inner city children he busses out from the city to experience a real Dude Ranch. (That movie is called Phantom Empire, and if you ever want to an evil Queen kill Gene Autry only for him to be revived in a "revving chamber" but come out speaking the language of the dead it's for you!) Anyway, where was I. Oh yes. The Lone Ranger books were serious boy's adventure stories from the 30's and 40's. Humor has a place, but camp doesn't. Neither does a mystical Wendigo. If it turns out to be real I'll see the movie anyway, but demand my money back.
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Anyone who would identify with this movie is sucking back oxygen in a mobile home park in Arizona.
Better make this one quick, because the expiration date on your target audience is expiring. -
If the Wendigo was more of a metaphorical idea than a sasquatch, I think it would play well. I just want to see a modern Western with a bunch of practical effects and action scenes. Mask of Zorro was pretty ballin' in that regard. Anyone seen Dodge City? It's got a barroom brawl in it that is LEGENDARY.
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That film is just saturated in mythology. Love it. Looking forward to the return of the Masked Man, but hopefully they can get Gore back on board.
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I just called for this the other day and I just got Legend of the Lone Ranger in the mail. This is the first movie I remember seeing in the theater as a kid. It might suck and be over dubbed but it holds a small place in my heart. The focus on Tonto for the first one sounds like a great idea since I just rewatched the original origin from the TV series and it is a bit slow. Adding the supernatural to it is an awesome idea. Speaking of Supernatural..Jared Padalecki for the Ranger. Tonto is his mentor. He hunts Werewolves with silver bullets. Old West horror. Come on people. This shit writes itself.
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I love it when tb'ers say that. I don't know why? It's like the ultimate "Fuck You" to any bigwigs who stick their noses into this site. Chant that shit, boys. Chant it!
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Will Smith!
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I'm sure someone in Hollywood thinks thats a great idea. Either that or Vin Diesel, Ice Cube or Denzel...Sheesh.
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Tonto in the serials was played by Chief Thundercloud, a cherokee.
Tonto on the tv series was played by Jay Silverheels, a Mohawk.
Tonto in the 1981 movie was played by Michael Horse, a Yaqui-Mescalero Apache-Zuni Indian.
None of them are white guys in redface. -
Seriously, I've seen more meat on a chicken mcnugget.
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the other names in your sarcastic quip but ICE CUBE? C'mon, meng. We all gotsta read these too!
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I don't want to look at your pasty, out of shape mug, or listen to your nasally, internet-nerd twinged voice! And your Just write the goddamned thing down so I can read the mo-fucker when I'm not at home!
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Sep 10, 2009 7:40:52 PM CDT
5 MINUTES before he even gets to the review...I HATE video revie
by sonnyfern
Really do...and has anyone figured out why this is called Latino review?? He didn't SOUND Latino..
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He could put an angry spin on the character. Someone questions the Lone Ranger, he just shoots them and chugs a "40". (Sheepskin flask of course) Think about it. It could be fun...
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...but he directed, wrote, and starred in a film about Native Americans as a tribute to his heritage. It's not available on DVD in the west, but I own a copy I purchased from Asia. And while the film is definitely on of his poorer works, and Brando flounders about in a wheelchair like a bloated carcass in the opening, the movie is very soulful, and you get a sense of that and that passion when you watch it. So there's no doubt that Depp's characterization will be respectful to the Native people, and he's not going to be wearing skin paint unless it's war paint.
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Jackie Chan! Yes. Now that is a GREAT idea! Diversity. I love it.
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Sep 10, 2009 8:07:15 PM CDT
How the hell does Latino Review get all these scoops?
by lockesbrokenleg
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Sep 10, 2009 8:24:41 PM CDT
Green Hornet and Lone Ranger? They should combine 'em!
by speakerforthedead
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Combine 'em, meaning that since the Lone Ranger has been written time and time again to be the Green Hornet's great grandpappy I mean. Tie it in! Yes I'm kidding! (about wanting this, not that he's the Hornet's great grandpappy)
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Clive Owen should be Lone Ranger.
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Depp as the Lone Ranger? I'm there man. I don't fucking care if Uwe Bollis directing, this is going to be gold. Count me as officially psyched.
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That's just a basic plot outline. Waste of time. Everyone knows the origin of the Lone Ranger, and if you don't, all that information is readily available at places like Wikipedia.
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At first, I didn't care one way or the other. Then I hear about Johnny Depp and I think a little better of the movie's potential. But that Latino Review absolutely has me convinced this will be a great movie even if Conan O'Brien is the Lone Ranger
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There was a horse in Hidalgo about 40 minutes in that would be sweet, perfect fur, same eyes. but I bet they go with the horse at 1 hr 15 min into Seabiscuit, during the fight, too thin in my opinion but we'll see, she also appeared in Racing Stripes, in the first and fourth races, she won in the latter. oh my pot pies ready, gotta go.
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...in the end to show he is down with Dances With Wolves and is really working to "Stick it to the Man!"
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He would pass on this part and insist they cast a real Native American, an ethnic group woefully under represented in Hollywood and rarely given a chance. He is 1/4th Cherokee, and that he that has saved him from having to live a life of racism, discrimination or the poverty that many of them try to escape from. Being 1/4th Cherokee gives him the luxory of claiming the heritage without having to go through the ordeal of BEING a Cherokee. All the perks but none of the drawbacks.
Or to quote Tom Berenger after someone told his character they would have loved to be half-Indian, he replied "Which half?" -
That part makes it seem like this could be a wimpy movie, if you always have to worry about shooting any bullets. I never realized that about the Lone Ranger, but that sort of... ruins the character imo. I dont see how you can be "badass" if youre always worried about using your ammo. What i heard does sound good though, the story sounds really good.
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IMHO it really is a personal thing and comes down to how much he identifies with the culture.There are some who are 1/4 of a particular ethnicity and don't identify with it at all, while the next person sees that 1/4 as part of their very soul. The fact that Depp made a movie about his Cherokee heritage seems to indicate that he takes that part of him very seriously and finds it to be very meaningful.
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"We wanted to be respectful of all that came before in the history of the LONE RANGER. So, after the Lone Ranger and Tonto fight the supernatural Wendigo monster ..."
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because i still prefer the old "reading through paragraphs" way. Video review sucks!
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hahahahahahahah..respectful..hahahahahahahahahaha..wendigo monster..hahahahahahahahahah
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If you like it I'll be buggered. I'm a long time LR fan and watched it in the theater in 1981 and realized right away what crap it was compared to the original LR serial. If you want a decent LR movie you should check out Clayton Moore's LR silver screen debut in 1956 "The Lone Ranger". Find it here at Netflix http://tinyurl.com/mv8uhb
BTW, the new movie sounds good. A kick ass Tonto isn't a bad idea but the LR better be equally butt kicking great too. -
..wasn't made by him about his Cherokee heritage. It was about a drunk failure, who realizes the only way he can contribute anything of worth to his children is to star in a snuff film for money. His being "Native" was almost a side-note. Yes, he found "religion" in his heritage toward the end, but you could have made his character a German/Italian-Swede, and it wouldn't have made a difference to the plot.
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I've seen better ideas come out of my shithole than this one. Are AICN 'writers' too lazy to transcribe these video reviews? Am sure if they were to do that, they'll get even more visitors.
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EVERYBODY hates the video reviews. It's something that websites feel they have to do, yet something that no visitor ever wants. Their reasoning goes something like: "Well, youtube is popular..."
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Just thought I should point out that Renny Harlin put out "12 Rounds" this year. Between that and "Cuthroat Island" he's done seven other films, most of which I'm sure you've heard. So while I agree about "Cutthroat Island". it was (perhaps unfortunately) not enough to kill Harlin's career. Geena Davis on the other hand...
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Gavin Hood and Lauren Schuler Donner Talk Wolverine Blu-ray and Sequel====By Jeff Otto on September 10, 2009====A special event was held on the Fox lot today in West Los Angeles to debut some footage from the forthcoming “X-Men Origins: Wolverine,” which hits DVD and Blu-ray in four different editions on September 15th. There will be the single disc DVD, the double-disc special edition DVD, the 2-disc Blu-ray special edition and the big blowout Wal-Mart exclusive 3-disc with the DVD, Blu-ray and a digital download copy. Fox is touting “Wolverine” as being a particular standout of the Blu-ray format. It does appear to be packed with extras, including perhaps the most intriguing new feature called Blu-ray live, an IMDB-powered menu option that will allow users to pull up a menu at any time during viewing and take a look at the filmographies and upcoming project information of all the actors on screen.
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All that product information, plus an EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW with the director and producer? How can I get invited to "a special event on the Fox lot in West Los Angeles?" That Jeff Otto is one ace reporter.
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There's even a giant hi-rez picture of the Wolverine Blu-ray. It makes a suh-weet desktop background!
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Jeff Otto asks: "Do you think the fans are starting to get more excited about adopting Blu-ray?" I must admit, I've been wondering that myself for months.
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It was pretty great overall, I think a question I might have asked would be "When you guys shot the scene where Wolverine gets shot with an amnesia bullet, were you aware that you were killing the entire X-Men franchise?"
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Jeff Otto asked: "There are similarities between Wolverine and the James Bond franchise. Do you see the strength of Logan’s character to be able to sustain such a long franchise?" Of course! It's impossible to kill Wolverine because he's so similar to James Bond. Continuing the analogy, X-Men Origins: Wolverine is like Die Another Day, if Die Another Day had been the first James Bond movie. I therefore cannot wait until we get the Wolverine equivalent of From Russia With Love 40 years from now.
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The reasons one can easily criticize The Lone Ranger over Batman are the casual racism is largely the casual racism, and the inability of the property to shake its hokey saturday morning serial roots, something Batman has done quite effectively. Not to mention that westerns are pretty well dead, and anything you can name in an attempt to prove otherwise is anomalous, rather than proof of life. Just because you're well versed in pulp novels doesn't mean that people don't have good points. That having been said, I'm excited about the prospect of a Lone Ranger flick.
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That the "Indians" in Lone Ranger get the same classy treatment as the ooga booga island natives in Pirates.
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Yes Batman has effectively thrown off his hokey rooks, but everyone here knows them and are aware of them. Every week people are pleading for Nolan not to include Robin in the franchise or making a joke about Adam West, a corny Penguin, Bat-Mite, or some other campy thing from Batman's past. But somehow everyone can overlook that and accept that Batman can be adapted realistically, while thinking the Lone Ranger must be presented as a 50s TV with bad western costumes and cheesy plots. Why can people take a leap of faith with Batman but not with the Lone Ranger? Answer: I think it is just a God damn popularity contest.
Secondly, maybe there was casual racism in the Lone Ranger, but you could say that Batman has long been plagued with the hints of homosexuality and jokes about the relationship between him and Robin. Once again, people can accept that as a thing of the past and that Batman can be presented in a different way, but that the Lone Ranger is always going to be racist (if he ever was)? I cry "bullshit."
And yes Westerns are pretty well dead, and I morn our loss. I don't mind that people like Super-Hero movies, but personally I think the western was a better and more interesting genre. I would rather see a sheriff stand up to bandits or a homesteader summon the courage to face a gunman than a man magically getting powers to face a threat. I'm a big comic book fan, but Westerns are the better genre cinematically IMO. -
" ... _terrible_ things."
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Sure, almost everyone else on the show were bigots towards Tonto and chided the Lone Ranger for hanging around with a 'redskin' but he was quick to correct them in most cases and obviously regarded Tonto as his equal and his best friend. The guy saved his life! And usually by the end of the episode the 'good guys' who did behave wrongly ate crow. It was pretty fuckin' avant garde back then for indigenous people to be regarded as more than screaming savage bullet catchers. Jeez. That word sure gets thrown around pretty casually these days. Anyway, the more I think about this version the more worried I get about the whole "Wendigo" deal. I guess gun slinging psychopaths are too passe' now. I like supernatural stuff in some movies but I'm not sure that it belongs in this one.
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But the show could be seen as a testament to the racism of the era. Yes, the Lone Ranger (the character and the show) was progressive for it's day, but in modern eyes Tonto has always looked to most people to be a stereotypical "injun" who speaks pidgin English and is obviously subservient to the superior white man. He was depicted as a noble savage and little else.
However, my problem with that is the same problem I have for people who criticize Charlie Chan (which I admit is a little worse because he was an actor in Yellow face) and that is that it isn't the character per say who is racist but the time he existed. There is nothing inherently racist in Tonto, Charlie Chan, Kato or Friday - unlike Ebony White from the Spirit. The racism of those listed characters was do to the limited prism that white people saw them through. We can't change that, but we can change how the character are presented nowadays, and make them more than one-or-sometimes two dimensional caricatures, or accidentally have racially insensitive qualities added to them.
Another thing people should remember is some characters that are viewed as racist or derogatory in modern eyes were not viewed that way in the past. Sam from Casablanca seems a negative stereotype nowadays,but back then he was viewed as liberating and a breakthrough. Here was a black character who told his boss Rick "no" and refused his orders. Black audiences would demand the reel where Sam would refuse Rick and back talk to him be replied - that is how groundbreaking it was.
Something we should keep in mind when we look at things with modern eyes. -
...At least Latino Review goes through the effort to make a literate, understandable presentation- unlike this unprofessional fucking site- where harry rapes the english language on a daily basis. For example the fucking word "Trailer" is misspelled in the headline of the Russian Solomon Kane story- there is no excuse for sloppy bullshit like that !!
Maybe if AICN actually generates it's own content again one day instead of just linking to Latino Review and other sites you wouldnt have to worry -
What is everyone here, a sixteen-year old girl or a wannabe rapper?
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....was Young Guns racist because Lou Diamond was only part Indian? Your arguments are flawed. There's a huge difference between the caricatures and stereotypes of Natives and Blacks in early Hollywood films with the characters played by white actors with painted faces, done in a hokey manner...versus modern actors with true Indian heritage doing a respectful portrayal simply because they aren't 100%. You are simplifying an issue you don't seem to understand. Halle berry isn't 100% black, so is it racist for her to portray blacks? Ben Kingsley is only half Indian, so does that mean it was racist to cast him even though he gave a moving and spot on performance? The answer is no. You're trivializing an issue you don't really understand.
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...I was referring to his performance as Gandhi.
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I WOULD like to see Tonto handled better in the new version.. but, I would also like to see the script show Tonto having to overcome the same prejudices he dealt with in the TV show. It wouldn't be an authentic depiction of that time period without it... and Ebony White, man, I LOVE The Spirit comics and Will Eisner (so much so that I wanted Frank Miller's head on a pike after enduring his shit-on-a-stick version) but he was a pretty cringeworthy character. Even for those times.
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Sep 11, 2009 3:55:16 AM CDT
Ok, Chakraborty, go tell that to all the Native American
by continentalop
Actors trying to get a break here in Hollywood where I work. Tell them that some Johnny come lately who is only 1/4th the same ethnic heritage as them is going to get the part because he is a big star and can just take up the mantle of being a Native American when it fits him. How many full-blooded Native Americans get the chance to star as Dillinger in Public Enemy, can be in Pirates of the Caribbean, Sweeny Todd and then play a supposedly full-blooded Native Indian (I am sure they will rationalize that he isn't full blooded) Tonto in a big screen version of the Lone Ranger. The one part that demands that someone should look like a Native American, and Hollywood figures a way around it.
BTW can Halle Berry pass as NOT black? No, she still looks black, especially in this country where we long had a history of classifying people by how much black blood in their body (the one drop rule). She obviously has white heritage as well, so I would say it would be a mistake to cast her as someone from Africa, but in America where their has long been interbreeding between the races she qualifies as black. She can pass as someone who is black but she can't pass as someone who is white. And personally I think she was miscast in Monster's Ball - she was way to attractive to play a poor black women. And no I am not alone, many black actresses in Hollywood complained about her getting the role over Queen Latifah. But that was lookism, not racism.
Ben Kingsley as Gandhi did draw protest from many Indians who felt that it was wrong to cast him as their beloved dead leader. Sure Kingsley could claim he was half Indian, but what really saved him from being taken to task was his uncanny resemblance to Mahatma Gandhi. The difference between Gandhi and Tonto is that Gandhi's physical appearance is well known, and that is what was most important - having someone that can pass as Gandhi. Since Tonto is a fictitious character, his appearance has not been established except for his ethnic and racial heritage. And that heritage is Native American.
By the way, I never said it was racist, I said it was wrong and insensitive. And I also think unfair. Does someone have to be 100% the same ethnic type or race to play another character? No, but it helps if he looked like he was part of that group, or otherwise why the fuck cast him in the first place? And are you telling me that Johnny Depp passes as a Native American just by looking at him right now? And if he needs makeup, isn’t that just another form of Red Face? Tonto is supposed to be a full-blood Native American, so why not cast someone who is a FULL BLOODED native American, or at least looks it, because I doubt that poor actor is going to get many more opportunities to find a part that supposedly is written and made for people like him. It is also bad casting – Johnny Depp doesn’t look a Native American or rugged. It is the same thing as casting Michelle Pfeiffer in Frankie and Johnny over Kathy Bates, a dumb casting decision and stunt casting. That is all this is.
And like I said, if Johnny Depp was really sensitvie to his heritage he would realize that very few actors who are Native American (especially more than 1/4th) get any real chance to be cast in this town. Why not let someone else have an opportunity who normally never gets one. It can't all be like Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder.
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If they set it in a "realistic" universe (and by that, I mean give it the illusion of realism) then they should definitely have Tonto deal with racism.
America has without a doubt a racist history. Now, I am a firm believer it isn't one sided (Native Americans did kill some of our people too) but lets be honest, White people had greater power and the story will deal mostly with them traveling through the white man's world. So yes, I want to see Tonto having to deal with rednecks and racist, but also maybe people who have a "legitimate" reason to hate Indians (man who's family was killed, etc). They should do something Batman nor any other super-hero movie can really do, and touch upon race relations in a realistic way.
While still having some awesome action scenes. -
There are a variety of traits attributible to race. For example, one of the reasons Johnny Depp looks so different from other leading men are his huge, prominent cheekbones. Where do you think he got those cheekbones? Same thing for Lou Diamond, he has massive cheekbones, too. A trait which makes them instantly believable as Indians. Most Indians don't actually have red skin and are just slightly tan or olive-skinned. That's why I refer to Depp's film "The Brave" where he was very believable as an Indian and he wore no face paint, no accent, no costume or feathered headdress, and merely wore jeans, a flannel shirt, and a headband. Same thing applies with regards to Kingsley's facial features which look very Indian because of his Indian heritage, despite the fact that he is white skinned. . Regarding your whole issue about Native actors getting their big break, there are thousands of actors waiting for a break, but just because a character is of a certain ethnicity doesn't mean an unknown actor of %100 pure blood should get the role. . Your stance that mixed bloods should not play pure bloods is more discriminatory than Hollywood casting one of the best actors around rather than a lesser actor who is pureblood. If Depp, wasn't in this, I'd have no interest in seeing it. He's a good actor and I'd like to see what he does with the role. Even though previous Tontos were purebloods I wouldn't call their roles liberating or right, because they tended to be subservient to the Lone Ranger like a master and servant relationship.
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Boys that was lame. Whatever. I like Bruckheimer, Depp and the Ranger, so-maybe this will work. Ya never know.
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A) Yes, there are thousands of actors waiting to get their break. Many of them Native Americans, who are vastly under represented in Hollywood films (even if you calculate their numbers in the American population). And when they are cast it is usually in a small supporting role. How do I know this? I work in fucking Hollywood so I know that this place is all about lookism and passive racism. People might not be "racist" but they can't help but cast what they find appealing (which usually means people of your own race and background), so when a part comes along that is for a Native American you would imagine a Native American looking person would get it.
B) Does Depp look Native American? About as much as Cameron Diaz looked Native American (she is part Native American as well). And he definitely does not look like a full-blooded Native American (it would be hard to imagine someone being just 1/4th back then when white settlers were only just appearing). The other thing is does he look Apache? Not to my eye (he doesn't look Chippawa or Sioux either).
And yeah, race isn't just skin color. It is also other features, which Johnny Depp does not possess (or just hints of them). Great cheekbones does not make you a Native American.
When they were originally going to make the Godfather, the studio wanted Robert Redford to play Michael Corleone. Redford looks more Italian than Depp looks Indian, and you could imagine how good of casting decision that would be.
Each race has it own unique features; hell, you could probably even say each tribe. Just because someone has Native American blood in him does not mean he “looks” Native American, especially in the time period when this film is set. Tell my Japanese friend that Gong Li and Zhang Ziyi look Japanese and were well cast for Memiors for a Geisha and he will flip out.
C) Sorry you are only interested in big stars, but there are a lot of deserving but undiscovered actors out there, many of them members of an ethnic or racial minority who never get a break (and usually more than just 1/4th something). Personally I don't care if a star is in a role or not, I care if someone is properly cast.
D) Yes previous Tontos were purebloods, but I never claimed they were liberating roles. American Indian actors weren't given the chance at liberating roles yet (and appearently they still aren't). The Jimmy Stewart vehicle BROKEN ARROW had a very groundbreaking indian character in it who was depicted as sympathetic, and that was played by a white guy in red face, Jeff Chandler. You can imagine how annoying it is for a minority to not be included in their own stories and not given a chance to even play themselves. So I don't see what your point is that Depp wouldn't be subservient - we have had none subservient Native Americans in past movies as well, but unfortunately many times Native Americans were excluded from the casting (just like how asians often were - ask Asians how they feel about Mickey Rooney as Mr. Yunioshi).
E) Yeah, I know I am a racist stuck on how people of certain ethnicities look and demanding that maybe you should cast people based on the race of the character they are going to play. We have moved so much beyond that and are a post race society now. Of course, isn’t it convenient we are no longer as narrow-minded as I am and can cast someone who isn’t full-blooded or looks full-blooded in a part without ever going through the phase were we actually cast people of that certain race or ethnicity? We have gone from white people in Red Face to actors who are only 25% a certain racial group, without ever really going through a phase of actually casting people who are 100% (or even 50%) that group.
F) And I am done with this discussion. If you want to take it up with someone, take it up with these guys and the people at their websites:
http://tinyurl.com/mga2od
http://tinyurl.com/m4lh9e
(My favorite post is by the guy who says: "My reaction was 'Johnny Depp as Tonto? Johnny Depp is Cherokee???'")
Those websites and their readers also have a problem with Johnny Depp as Tonto. You can post there and tell them how wrong they are to think it isn’t right to have Johnny Depp cast as a Native American (you can also probably google “Johnn Depp + Tonto + controversy” and find other people who disagree with this decision).
BTW - it isn't my job to say what is racist or offensive and who should be allowed to be included in which group, but it is my right as film-goer to say which casting choices work and don't work IMO. Johnny Depp does not come across as Native American and his casting comes across as only a gimmick to put an A-lister in the lead. It is condescending towards people who cannot hide their Native American heritage that they are not good enough to play their own people. And I think it would find it very hard for me to suspend disbelief with him as Tonto, even if he was full-blooded Cherokee (rugged and badass are not terms that come to me when I think of Depp). I would rather have an actor who brings authenticity to the role than just a star.
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I guess the Lone Ranger was more progressive than even we thought. I was looking up some stuff on him and I found this list of guidelines made by the shows creator:
First off, part of the Lone Ranger's creed and oath, he swears that:
"That all men are created equal and that everyone has within himself the power to make this a better world"
The show creator also had rules for the show, which included:
All adversaries are American (I imagine that refers to them being white) to avoid criticism from minority groups. -
It was the only genre that remained from his evil clutches, wasn't it? Well, not anymore. Now Bruckheimer can proudly claim to have fucked up every type of movie genre there is. Isn't that nice? All is need now for the complete fuckage is for him to hire Michael Bay as director. You can do it, Jerry!
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It'd be good for Depp to have some good fun after the unfortunately insipid Public Enemies. Lusting after Megan Fox? http://tiny.cc/mfox362
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I put the reason for the Pirates movie turning out decent and fun totally on the lap of Gore Verbinski. He mannaged the impossible, to counter the inherent suckitude that cames with Bruckheimer.
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Sep 11, 2009 10:24:00 AM CDT
I just hope tonto is not some noble indian attached to nature, n
by asimovlives
As irritating as it were the past portaits of indians as mere savages, today it's equally as offensive and anoying the portait of indians as this noble creatures totally in tune with nature and all that new age bullshit. for once, wouldn't it eb nice if a movie had, like, A REALISTIC INDIAN? Maybe in this new movie, Tonto would not believe in any of that indian superstition like the manitou and wendigo. The guy could had been brought up in a christian mission, as many indian children were, and only late he rediscovered his own people costume,s and yet, he's not totally of the indian world, nor the while men. Which makes him a good partner for the Lone Ranger, sinc ehe knows both worlds. And he could still kick ass.
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Sep 11, 2009 10:26:09 AM CDT
it's possible to make a serious movie of The Lone Ranger.
by asimovlives
It's possible to make a serious movie out of anything, however crazy and comic-book style the original creation was. All it takes is will and talent.
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That's what he does.
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STUPID FUCKING WHITE MAN !!!
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...WHEN HE MADE APOCALYPTO, HE CAST ALL NATIVE ACTORS THAT LOOKED ABSOLUTELY CORRECT FOR THE PERIOD !!!
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Your 100% right. All unknowns and made a brilliant movie. Not defending the guy but he knows movies.
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Regardless of his silly beliefs and opinions.
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...Bruckheimer the Butt-Pirate can't produce a good movie. Trust me, he'll find a way to fuck it up.
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You said: "I know originally Tonto was a white guy in red face but this needs to be rectified in todays society." This is patently false. Tonto was NOT originally a white guy in red face. You must have assumed this to be fact without doing your homework before posting. Chief Thundercloud, aka "Victor Daniels", who played Tonto in the original movie serials, was indeed a true Native American Indian. As was Jay Silverheels, who famously portrayed the character in the long running televisoin series and two 50's feature films, and also Michael Horse, who took on the role for the 1981 redux 'Legend of the Lone Ranger'. All of genuine Native American heritage. Even Ivan Naranjo, who voiced Tonto for Filmation's saturday morning cartoon, was a full-blooded Native American. None of them were "white men in red face". Not a single one of 'em. You should feel ashamed for propigating such antiquated Hollywood era stereotypes that in the case of these particualr gentlemen is also hitorically erroneous.
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