Cool News
Weird!! If There's Another SUPERMAN Movie, A Lot Of Stuff Probably Won't Be In It...For Better or Worse...
Merrick here...
...with word on an interesting twist in the ongoing SUPERMAN legal conflicts:
In an ongoing Federal court battle over Superman, Judge Stephen Larson ruled Wednesday that the family of the superhero's co-creator, Jerry Siegel, has "successfully recaptured" rights to additional works, including the first two weeks of the daily Superman newspaper comic-strips, as well as portions of early Action Comics and Superman comic-books.
[EDIT]
This means the Siegels -- repped by Marc Toberoff of Toberoff & Associates -- now control depictions of Superman's origins from the planet Krypton, his parents Jor-El and Lora, Superman as the infant Kal-El, the launching of the infant Superman into space by his parents as Krypton explodes and his landing on Earth in a fiery crash.
[EDIT]
DC owns other elements like Superman's ability to fly, the term kryptonite, the Lex Luthor and Jimmy Olsen characters, Superman's powers and expanded origins.
...explains THIS piece in Variety.
A while back, in THIS posting, I mentioned that I felt the best way to approach any future SUPERMAN movie was to avoid another set-up/origin story - i.e. just cut to the chase & make a damn Superman movie. I believe that anyone turning out for a Superman movie already knows why they're in the theater and what it's all about, thereby rendering 45 minutes of set-up passe.
Today's news means I may well get what I want, which makes me happy. But then I started thinking: does this news also mean The Powers That Be at Warner Bros. might be compelled to undertake some kind of forced re-imagining of the concept, similar to what J.J. Abrams & Brett Ratner attempted back in the day (HERE, HERE, and HERE)? Can't you see it now? Some studio guy saying "We saw this as the perfect opportunity to re-envision The Man of Steel's origins in a fresh manner that today's audiences can better relate to" - or some crap like that?
To be clear, I don't know that this ruling leaves room for such shenanigans. I'm just thinking out loud here...pondering...and a tad suspicious about what might end-up on screen...
[EDIT]
This means the Siegels -- repped by Marc Toberoff of Toberoff & Associates -- now control depictions of Superman's origins from the planet Krypton, his parents Jor-El and Lora, Superman as the infant Kal-El, the launching of the infant Superman into space by his parents as Krypton explodes and his landing on Earth in a fiery crash.
[EDIT]
DC owns other elements like Superman's ability to fly, the term kryptonite, the Lex Luthor and Jimmy Olsen characters, Superman's powers and expanded origins.
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+ Expand All
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...VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
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Are his origins really worth fighting over? Money taints everything....even our heroes.
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in All-Star Superman #1; one page of six panels showing Krypton blowing up and the spaceship taking off, with the captions "Doomed planet." "Heroic scientists." "last son."That's it.
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with this whole "we saw a perfect opportunity" shit.
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...those two boys work hard.
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Because I'm pretty sure the Superman mythos has been beat like a dead horse by this point. Even non-geeks know that Superman's from another planet--rehashing it in some long, extended sequence is pretty unnecessary. Just go the Singer/Returns route and have a VERY brief flashback.
Hopefully, not needing an origin will make the movie focus on having a decent story. As good as Returns was, please, no more Donner-styled films. I'd like to have a decent portrayal of Lex Luthor, and a Superman that's pushed to his limits because of a superior villain. Like Darkseid maybe. Or Brainiac. -
Aug 14, 2009 9:50:25 AM CDT
Are his origins really worth fighting over? Uhm...hell yes.
by zargotron
Siegel and Shuster created one of the most iconic figures of the 20thy century and got royally screwed over by DC. Writers and artists were treated like crap back in the day and the companies would do anything and everything they could to screw them out of any ownership of the comics they churned out in what were pretty much comic book sweatshops. The lawsuits have been going on for some time and it is a very big deal for fighting on behalf of creator's rights. It is a very good thing, indeed.
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How old is this property? 80 years old? I also love it that Jerry Siegel, 95 years young, is still so full of piss and vinegar. Way to go, Jerry!
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...that's what the kids are into.
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...that's what the kids are into.
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... of reasons why the words "public" and "domain" are important.
They avoid such annoying problems.
And, frankly? 70 years after his initial appearance? Enough with the copyright crap already. -
Maybe the legal issues will prevent future Superman movies, since they inevitably suck.
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...the original version was just a downer.
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...it didn't blow up, he just left because he didn't fit in...nobody understood him...or his dancing style.
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Superman will have been a mutant all along, "Weapon S" wandering around the Canadian wilderness with amnesia after he is shot in the head with a kryptonite bullet. His origins a mystery, he is taken in by a nice Jewish family in Queens.
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The creators deserve a fair share of the profits, but DC will just make up some new crap about the origin of Supes, screwing the creators and us at the same time.
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...because that belt rocks. I would hate to loose the rights to that accessory.
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So is "last son of Krypton" now off-limits, unless DC pays for the usage?
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Now you know how some people feel about the Trek movie.
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...my feet would be indestructible anyway, it makes me look sensitive, and it's way cooler than red go-go boots.
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Yeah, I completely agree with the idea of excluding supermans origin story from the film. Including it would just be a complete waste of time because the majority of people already know it anyway. Also, I believe that this film needs to be a pseudo sequel/remake like The Incredible Hulk was last year. No full-on remake bullshit. The only reason Batman Begins was successful as an origin story/remake is because they portrayed an area of Batmans origin that wasnt fleshed out previously. Anyway, thats just my thoughts on the matter.
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Papillon, Outlaw Josey Wales, Every Which Way But Loose, Any Which Way You Can, and more 80s tv appearances than you can shake a stick at. Get on it before the Black Widows come for you. Hit it LordofHell.
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Will this be another nail in the show's coffin? Does this ruling affect it at all?
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best crossover ever
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Abrams' reboot of superman was pretty damn awesome until Lex Luthor turned into a Kryptonian. I was totally pumped until for everything and thenn it was like What... the ... fuck... ?
I'd love to see that movie get made with a different ending. Like supes getting shot with a cryptonight bullet, and then the god damn batman saves him or something like that. -
Let's face it a red to yellow sun difference just wouldn't give you the power of heat vision, to fly, etc. John Byrne during his run with Superman explained that he thought of Superman as this supreme psychic, with telekinesis, levitation and pyrokinesis which would explain his incredible strength, his ability to fly, and his heat vision as it's all really coming from his mind. The invulnerability could be some form of telekinetic shield, that leaves the only power unexplained by psychic powers being the super-cool breath. But I guess if you can be a pyrokinetic maybe the super-cool breath is just removing the heat with the same power? Anyway, that's a way they could get around the whole yellow sun thing. Or they should just do what they should've done all these years and give the creators are more substantial cut of the loot.
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A bold direction to be sure.
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everybody knows who superman is and where he comes from.in fact you can give this info briefly in the movie ,as an intro of the movie (ala watchmen intro ie),a flashback or in background (tv news reminding to the public supermans first appearance etc)
they should get immediately to the action,establish the players of the story,make superman already a part of metropolis life and not something they see for first time. (like in the authority comic,where the heroes are media celebrities,having covers in big magazines,etc)
and please no more lex luthor ffs.or at least make him the mastermind behind all,but never show him as the real threat for superman.give something which will pose a real danger for supermans life and the world (no doomsday thank you,i prefer darkseid).dont use the stupid cliche device that supermans loses his powers because of cryptonite.we want super heroic fights,no a wimp mortal being beaten up by some goons like in superman returns.jeezes christ.
thats all.btw the news about the siegel trial,i think are old? that the jurys decision has been made some time ago? or is it something else? -
Through Comic panel catch-up and then once the opening credits are done you're in present day and ready to go...Ready to go, hopefully, into a unique tale with a formidable foe (preferably someone with hair, fists made of bone, etc.)
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A goody, goody, who can't be hurt. Wow, how exciting. So he doesn't hurt others and he himself can't be hurt. Oh unless the "magic green rock" is present to turn him into a complete and utter pussy. What a shitty character! I could care less who owns him, I'm not seeing his film.
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.... He is now a wannabe rap star who parlays as a no- good do-gooder and in one of his nightly shenanigans, falls into a vat of chemicals at Acme Chemicals. But because he is full of gas from all the corn he sucked down in Kansas, the gas reacts with the chemicals and he get superpowers. But he still can't fly, but at that time, as he drags himself out of the cesspool of chemicals and his own gas, a spaceship with a dying alien gives me a ring in the shape of a small bat and tells him he is now the Guardian of the swamps of Cosmopolis... ... ah f#ck this crap, I can't stand Superman Returns with the bastard son of Superman and now this is all making it so much worse. Someone said make him a Vampire.. yea, just do that ..
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Lois: So, Superman tell me about you parents and where you are from.
Superman: [Turns his head down. Looks upset.] I can't talk about it. -
Superman's origin was set in stone a long time ago. That is,...so we thought.
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Aug 14, 2009 10:19:25 AM CDT
Yeah but will Superman still wear low rise cock bulging trunks??
by turd furgeson
Inquiring minds want to know....
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Is it worse than a world where people think they can re-imagine Superman? I'm not so sure...
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Wow... I find that amazing, his name is kind of mythical to a comic geek like me. Kind of weirdly cool to think that he still wanders the same planet as me.
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although that has already been done in Ennis The Boys series...
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Good for the creator's estate to get some loot thrown in they're direction.
Maybe now we'll see the mega throw downs with the super baddies without setting up his origin which kills half the movie. -
It's LARA. Four letters can't be that hard to screw up, but apparently they are.
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Warner has been, all things considered, pretty good about maintaining DC characters (Catwoman notwithstanding). DC always has a say in their comic properties. All this means is that if it is going to be a reboot, which is what will happen in all liklihood, then Siegel's descendants will get a little piece of the pie. How much they change will determine how much they will get.
I think it is quite possible they will go for the civil war on Krypton idea of old, and I frankly think that would be pretty cool.Everyone's pretty sick of Luthor so reintroducing Zod and/or Brainiac seems the logical thing to do. -
Maybe now is the time to start going over this script again because it could reintroduce the character in a new way without dealing with the origin. Of course the big concern with that is that Nolan doesn't want any cross-pollinating with his version of Batman and of course flying space aliens don't really jibe with it either.
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Because Luthor was trying to create a super soldier to sell to the government. But, like Frankenstein, the monster turned against his creator and they became arch enemies. He wears the costume because he used to make deliveries for "S"hakey's Pizza. Lex lost his hair during their first battle when Superman knocked him into the Pizza oven/furnace.
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completely reinventing him. take all star superman by grant morrison, for example. granted it's a comic book but it was fantastic. i don't shit on singer's superman returns like everyone seems to do but i thought it was underwhelming. as a comic book geek and superman fan, there where parts of the movie that gave me goosebumps, such as the sequence when he rescues that plane and flies right through the debris. that gave you a hint of how mindblowing a superman movie can be if done right.they need to retain the boy scout aspect of his personality. there is no need to make him edgy, he isn't batman. also, make luthor an evil genius not a lame con artist. finally, as much as i liked abrams star trek we don't need a shakey cam superman movie.
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...are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinkey?
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Not in my world.
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Piss on any of you mouthbreathing scum who hated the fact that we got a quality Superman movie that didn't insult the audience's intelligence.
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Just toss us in there with Superman already doing his thing. If new audiences need to catch up let there be a scene in the middle where Superman just narrates his origin to someone in all of 5 mins. Also no more Lex Luthor and keep Lois waaaaay the fuck in the background. I'm tired of that shit, let's just see Superman taking on super villians in IMAX 3D with tons of TOTAL FUCKING DESTRUCTION!!!! If the Wachowskis are available let them do it!
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Aug 14, 2009 10:37:19 AM CDT
pillow talk...we can talk about the plural thing later, but...
by flickapoo
...if you put fucking dent marks in my LEGO trying to pry the pieces apart with your teeth you're never coming over again.
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This ruling is a mess. It is as if King Solomon went to work on the baby with a jagged spoon. I think what will happen is that WB will license whatever the Siegels "own" so they can use the character's established mythology free and clear. While I think the ruling is awful, what it does establish is a marriage of necessity between the two sides. Neither party can really go it alone with SUPERMAN. They need to cooperate in order to do future projects.
As for your suggestion of a revamped origin- technically it may sidestep the ruling's parameters (which reveals why the ruling is pretty dumb) but the Siegels can go back to court and make WB miserable for their superficial re-telling of an established character that they partly own. Their damages would be significant, potentially. -
Aug 14, 2009 10:39:21 AM CDT
Everyone is freaking out..this really means nothing for a Supes
by jettl93
Yeah so the Seigels and Shusters now own a big chunk of the Superman rights, but that doesn't mean a Superman orgin story or other elements will never be seen on film. It just means if WB want's to include them in a film they need the Seigel/Shuster's approval and they need to pay them for the rights to use those elements.The famalies are not idiots, they know that in order to make more money, the parts of superman they own need to be licenced out. And WB knows that an altered Superman movie will piss off most fanboys and bomb at the box office, especially after we were promised a kick ass Superman movie after Returns raped all of our childhoodsThere's really nothing to worry about... Both sides benefit from making a deal, The Seigels/Shusters won't pass up potential profits from a Superman movie, and WB will pay up because a) they have the money and more importantly: b)they want a surfire hit and the only way to do that is to stick with the Superman everyone has known for 80 years (Superman Returns proved that straying from the established mythos equals lower then expected profit)We still won't see another Superman movie until probabaly 2012 or 13, but thats only because right now, with the exception of Green Lantern, WB is anchoring every superhero franchise around a potential third Chris Nolan Batman movie..Once Batman 3 is locked in, every other DC superhero movie will follow, with Supes being at the head of the pack
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...no, it didn't insult our intelligence, however it was utterly boring and inconsequential and sapped our will to live. We don't demand flash-bang action at every second, however something interesting to watch is always nice.
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Continue on with Routh as Superman, and just have him fighting villains. Don't have flashbacks or any of that stuff. How difficult is that?
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He's one of the dullest characters in comic book history. aradoxically enough he works better as a movie / tv character than a comicbook one. is powers are ridiculous and Kryptonite has to be the most over used, and poorly used maguffin in the history of story telling.
I couldn;t give a monkey's toss what changes they make as long as it results in a more interesting and rounded character.
No giant mechanical spiders though! -
There's the ticket.
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the nano bot / genetic engineering / he's a mhuuutant, origins don't appeal to me
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One, I don't wanna see him
in that suit. It looks too faggy.
Two, I don't wanna see him fly.Three, he will be played by Sean Penn. Because he's got the eyes of a violent,
caged animal.
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...and he fights a giant spider... gotta fight a giant spider! And there's polar bears and a gay robot, too. Yeah!
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I'm all for creator's rights...but this ruling, and continued backtracking, trying to make shit fair that simply WASN'T legally 'fair' at the time, makes no fucking sense. THEY SIGNED THE FUCKING RIGHTS AWAY. And now, it's not even the fucking creators, it's the fucking family trying to milk this shit. Fucking enough already.
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No origin story. If his powers have to be explained, just say he has an extra internal organ that humans obviously don't have, and it goes into overdrive once the sun charges it up, giving him super powers. Mention Krypton once or twice throughout the span of the movie. And get Jon Hamm to play him. Maybe Kate Beckinsdale to play Lois. A little Lex would be alright, just as long as it's a LITTLE. What the franchise needs is a super villain that can trade punches with him - Brainiac seems the surefire bet. Get somebody decent to direct it. Get somebody BETTER than decent to write it. And PLEASE, for the love of God, let's just update the suit a little bit, hunh? Red go-go boots, yellow leather belt, red underwear on the outside? Fuck, that costume is HOW old now? Let's make it a bit modern. It can still be true to its origins, but man, after 70-80 odd years, its so beyond time for an OFFICIAL update on that costume...
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anyone on that point. but i feel that, as an icon, it can be compared to the western genre. at one point it became oversaturated and just plane boring. but when someone comes along and uses these tropes and filters a compelling story through them like Mr. Eastwood with Unforgiven, i believe you can really get something worthwhile.
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Before Superman Returns, some fans wanted something Donner-esque, while others wanted a new direction. Singer leans towards the former, and gets ripped to shreads for being too faithful and not original enough. He does a little of the latter, and out comes the whole kid issue.
I'm very indifferent about SR. I just don't know what to make of this... I think, regardless of how the film turned, it was pretty cool that SR felt somewhat like it was in the Donner universe. I can't think of another superhero movie that tried something like that. (i.e.-Nolan obviously went in the opposite direction of Burton & Shmuck-shitty filmmaker). I guess, at the end of the day, however noble it may be to honor Donner (yikes), the film has to be GOOD for it all to matter. -
You're wrong. Originally, it was indeed LORA. And, in fact, when the whole Earth-1/Earth-2 thing still existed, the Earth-2 mom of Superman was still called LORA.
So check your facts before you correct others. Moron. -
taking a big fat dump.
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Is 37, even though he looks older. He's a terrific actor, and I can see why people think he should be Clark, but the only way I could see it working is if it was many years into Kent being Superman
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So greedy desendents have fucked over future tellings of a pop culture icon. Wonderful.
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...but forget that Superman II was considered a sequel that also surpassed its original -- at least before the internet told us that it was a patchwork of two directors work. But it used to be really popular for three reasons:
1. Lois and Superman had great chemistry
2. Superman had really fun, powerful supervillains to fight
3. It's the only film that lets Superman be the classic comic book Superman for the ENTIRE film. No Richard Pryor or illegitimate children (?!?WTF) to be seen.
DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE ORIGIN. Just pretend the next movie is like a 70s issue of the comic book -- Superman begins his new adventure and it has nothing to do with the previous issue.
Put the joseph Campbell books away and make a great superhero action film for pete's sake. -
Aug 14, 2009 11:13:53 AM CDT
get Michael Bay on this thing and cast Depp as Clark Kent.... DO
by irc-hollywood
thank you studio exec's, i assume the cheque is in the mail.
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All he did was imitate Chris Reeves playing Superman. Just reboot it with a five minute prologue in the beginning of the movie. Siegel and Shuster didn't get screwed over by DC Comics. They signed away the rights to their character fair and square. This court case is a joke.
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DC has made Superman a viable book again in the DCU. What does this mean for the comics? Geoff Johns is launching a mini for a re-telling of Superman. Will this be affected?
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A guy does it twice, and now he's got the "dent mark" label forever.Tough times we live in...
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give him someone to FIGHT. a big, strong, super-powered villain who is not just a nerdy human making a real-estate scam.
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Aug 14, 2009 11:19:57 AM CDT
Who cares about Superman? What we need is a good movie about Cla
by snforrester
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Let him go all SKY CAPTAIN on it. Live-action '40s-era Fleischer SUPERMAN, complete with art deco look and stylized, expressionistic cinematography? Awesome.
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Aug 14, 2009 11:25:30 AM CDT
How do you own a characters origin, and not the character?
by geomancer21
Explain that to me?also, wouldn't that mean they own the LOOK of superman as well? the costume, the "S" and what not?
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future depictions of superman taking a big fat dump must be cleared and signed off by AlienDragQueen. yes, it is inconvenient and supercilious but order must be retained. we live in a modern society. if we all don't live by certain rules it's anarchy.
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An Urban Superman!
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I said it before and I'll say it again: A Superman movie has to be BIG! Not necessarily a millon explosions and stuff but thru out the film Superman should be seen as a larger than life character. In Superman Returns he was "small", he had no presence.
As for the latest cour decision: Oh please. Rights were sold not liscenced. Sold outright. If I sell something I own, it then ceases to become mine. Yeah if Superman had been liscenced out at the start the family may have a beef but that's not how it worked out. Sold, gone, good bye. -
Aug 14, 2009 11:36:11 AM CDT
...just concentrate on Clark and Lois, maybe throw in a dog...
by flickapoo
...give Clark a regular column, nothing too demanding. Maybe call it MARLEY AND ME or something like that...
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Then I'm gonna wait till one or more of the ideas turns into a million dollar idea and then I'll sue to get the rights back.
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Where would "kryptonite" get its name? The family has the rights to the planet, but DC has the rights to the radioactive rock that hurts him?
Strange.
We're all just floating. -
origin stories.
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It probably makes the most sense. You get the big villian that matches Supes physically, you can have Luthor be the man behind bringing him to life or into this reality (however they decide to do it) and you can have Lois as the love interest of Bizarro so she gets a piece of the story too.Hell they already have the rollercoaster at Six Flags, so it's as good as done.Spoiler Alert: Bizarro saves Lois at the end by sacraficing his own life (or his time in this reality, whatever) and turns on Luthor... After credits we see Luthor is now stuck in the Bizarro Universe and guess how he gets out... Mr. Mxyzptlk.(Cue Sequel)Now give me my 7 figures for my work!
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Make a Golden Age Superman-Art Deco style. David Fincher Directs. Go back to his original powers:Superman powers mainly consisted of enhanced strength, speed, senses and durability. When introduced in 1938, he was considerably weaker than even the Modern Era Superman. Superman was only strong enough to lift a support beam or lift a car with only one hand. He was only fast enough to pass an express train. He couldn't fly, he could only make powerful leaps. He could only withstand bullets and smaller artillery. This means that larger, heavier weapons, or a speeding train, could kill him.
Originally in the early comics, Superman had the ability to change his facial features by using his somewhat superhuman control of his face muscles. However, this ability eventually phased out and never used again.
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Didn't Siegel and Shuster just take the back story for another famous character and re-use it? I thought Moses had a very similar origin.
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how many more years is the family of leeches going to suck on the dead corpse of Siegel? get jobs you immigrants! creators have rights of course but this is like giving the draftsman who drew lines on a porsche in 1967 rights to "all subsequent likenesses" of the car. fucking crap ass US tort system. The term Krypton has no value outside of Superman mythos and people who had no hand in the creation and cultivation of the value of that property see this as their lottery ticket exploiting the work of artists over 80 years who actually contributed to the value of the property. More money for the lawyers and sperm that happened to turn into people and be born to one (of many) who contributed to Superman back in the day. Funny that we actually have sheep applauding this. Grats, now the terrorists have won.
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Aug 14, 2009 12:07:37 PM CDT
Will they ever fish out Jar Jar Abram's Superman script he once
by asimovlives
This was back in the day when Jar Jar abrams was small fish, which means AICN didn't feel the need to kiss his ass, and as such, his shit script was trashed to kingdom come, and deservedly so. some years later, he's an important player, and he makes a shit movie pretendig to be Star trek, with a script as shit as his for Superman, and yet now people praised his movie and even the story and script (yeah, pretend you didn't praised the script!), because he's now the man!They might as well fish out Jar Jar Abrams's script for Superman, because the shit he put in it barely resembled anything to do with superman as we know it. all they need was change the names of some places, and pretend that planet is not Krypton, and voilá lá, a new Superman movie ready to make. And it will be such a piece of shit, geeks will start to remember Superman Returns with foundness.
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just change Superman's origins and make the Octomom his mother
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No more Lex!
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If they can still refer to the character's origin/backstory, then there shouldn't be much of an issue here. Sure, it would mean no more recreations of the origin, but they could still acknowledge the backstory of where he's from, how he got there, etc. However, if the ruling also prevents them from doing that, then I guess we can expect some strange reboot. After all, at some point, the filmmakers would probably want to delve into the character's past a bit. And to a studio exec, the best reason to reboot won't be the court ruling, it will be the recent success of Star Trek.
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you need a CLUE. it's not like Superman's powers changed ONCE or over ONE period of time. Superman's powers scale to 1)his opponents 2)thematic need. Superman's powers are in a constant flux take a look at Golden Age versus Silver Age to today. It's pretty ironic that they'd be paying off the estate of this or that writer when probably the most significant influence to fundamentally changing Superman was the economic pressure of competition from CAPTAIN MARVEL. A significant impetus for the "powering up" of Superman was to combat the popularity of Marvel's multitude of powers based on the deities of SHAZAM (wisdom, mysticism via lightning etc in addition to strength). Siegel and Shuster originally saw Superman as a sort of uberman (superhuman but basically human) many of the SUPERHERO conventions we now tie to superman were heavily influenced by Fawcett's characterization. I mean superman was always "a strange visitor from another planet" and the whole thing with Krypton was as Jedifan says basically a hackneyed 10 panels or w/e and ripped off from other sources. It's far from original If they're paying off Krypton and those peripheral bells and whistles they should be paying off the 300 ppl who worked on Capt Marvel and other influences on Superman which heavily influenced his incarnation today
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DC is okay. The rest of the stuff can be glossed over, and you certainly don't need to retell the origin for the umpteenth time (a 1 minute credit intro can gloss over that for anyone who doesn't know the story by now). I am tired of seeing Lex Luthor. The next movie could include Braniac and/or that bone monster thing. Refresh the relationship with Lois and skip all the marriage, kid, whatever stuff from the last movie.
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why the hell not?
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I'm officially giving back my Superman tightie whities.
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First of all, an origins story didn't hurt Batman Begins, did it?Secondly, you geeks assume too much. You assume that EVERYBODY knows the origins of Superman by now. This is not so. Remember back in 1978, when Donner's movie came out? Many people had not know of where Superman came from, that he has special powers because he's an alien, how Krypton looked like, the Smallville growing up years, etc, etc. Even with thye imense popular TVm show of the 50s, still too many people knew nothing much of the origin of Superman. Like myself.Donner's Superman presented me with his origin story. In my mind, Krypton will always be like in Donner's movie.Geeks assume too much that everybody knows about superman the same they do. That's not true. If there's anew Superman movie to be, one that is not a following up to Superman Returns, then yeah, they will need to tell an origin story. Tell Superman's origins anew. Retell it in a new fashion, with a new presentation, with a new style. The audience who will pay and make a difference if a new Superman movie will make bankl or not are the same people who do not know the details of superman's origins and his yearlier years. Yes, even with the Smallville show going on.You geeks presume too much. But the thing is, a new superman movie that has no link to any of the superman movies made so far, they will need to retell his origins anew. That's how it has to be. You got to swalow your pride and perkiness on this subject.Beside,s telling an origin story is not the problem at all. The problem is HOW WELL THEY WILL TELL THE STORY. That's it.
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yeah u right,that siegel and co had sold the rights to DC.but from what i have read on the net,there is a usa law which after an amount of time,the rights return back to the original creator of the work.thats why the sieged family went to court now,because that time has passed and they can repossess the rights for the superman character.
just google it,there is plenty of info about it. -
If we leave it at "Strange visitor from another planet," then Warner Bros. can use that? As long as Krypton isn't mentioned?I'm cool with that. I think enough people know where Superman comes from.
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the movie wasnt an origin story but still people didnt have with that.they went to cinema because they knew who superman is and where he comes from.its another matter that the movie was not so good,but thats another matter.
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Aug 14, 2009 12:34:27 PM CDT
WB can still depict the origin stuff, they just gotta pay up...
by 3d-man
...right?
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one of lifes facts
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Yiou forget that the opening of Superman Returns, it has an opening crawler text explaining that Superman had return toKrypton, which they specified it was his place of birth. If there was such assurance that the public knew what would be krypton, and that supes had come from ther,e there wouldbn't be any need of that text crawler, would it?Deal with it, the vast majority of the public, which will make or break a movie like Superman, do not know that well what the fuck Krypton is, and that Superman is an alien. The vast majority of the public are not geeks like you and me. And there will be people who will know of all things superman from their watching of the new Superman movie, it ill be their introduction to the character. Deal with it. This "no need for another telling of Superman's origins" is geek snobery. And a gigantic movie like any Superman movie will be cannopt get profitable from the geeks alone. Deal with it.Again, Batman Begins told an origin story, and it served it very well, many people now knows of Batman and his origin through that movie. Again, i repeat, what worked for Batman will work as well for Superman. That's it. The only real matter is, how well they will tell that story, and nothing else.
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that will explain why the name of his planet wont be said in the movie,since he cant remember where he is from.
and since the scientists dont know the origin of Kryptonite,they could easily name it as 'Greenite' .there copyright of origin problem solved. -
As this post points out
http://tinyurl.com/pufm7x
things appearing in Action Comics #1 include the origin of Superman as a baby rocketed to earth from another planet, his super strength, possibly his ability to fly (he jumps really high and far), the Superman logo, the Superman COSTUME and Lois Lane.
Plus, it introduces Superman as Clark Kent. Would Siegel/Shuster own Clark, too?
Interesting questions.
Ultimately, DC may not be left with much to play with when it comes to the essentials of Superman's character. -
...to sign the contract. I've been calling bullshit on this whole legal battle since the beginning. They could have just as easily declined DC's offer, taken it somewhere else, and never had the character be what it is today, which means they wouldn't have cared to get the rights to it back.
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what i and the other guys say here already.that there should be at least a bried introduction to his character during opening credits or whatever.
but u speak of a movie totally dedicated to his origin.thats a whole different thing.
and Batman Begins is a reboot/reimagination,which means u had to introduce the character from the start.and since u mentined it,was Burtons first batman an origin story? yes it was,BUT FOR JOKER.
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...now that I remember it, wasn't Superman turned down by every other major publisher? So basically DC is being harangued for being the only publisher willing to take a risk on their concept. Great. Fantastic. See if anyone ever takes a risk again.
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People forget but the action sequences in X-Men were pretty terrible. Most of the fans were just happy to see a director get the theme and tone right. Then Singer delivered a much better sequel. WB should have just told Singer to lower the budget a bit, and deliver a sequel with more action. Singer said he wanted his sequel to be more action. Why didn't WB pull the trigger? Stupid all around.
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They wil, do that, anyway. You better live with that fact and accept it. The only real isue is, will they do it intelligently and well? Or will they fuck it up, Jar Jar Abrams' Crap Trek style?
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...it was the US Justice System.
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I'm not kidding.
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Moreover, i would love to see a movie that would spend nearly one hour set in Krypton, detailing the krypton society and their influence in their part of the galaxy and their deals with other races, and telling the story of Jor-El and how he became so disfranchised from the rest of his fellow Kryptonians, and how suxch an advanced society was lead so astray, that despiste their advenced science, they could not predict their imminent doom and were blinded by the signs and Jor-El's rational warnings. Also some time dedicated to the betrayal of General Zod and his croonies and how their inprisionement in the Phantom zone helped them survive Krypton's doom. Also a glimpse of Brainiac and what a threat to Krypton he's becoming (he could even be the one to caused Krypton's demise and saboutaged Jor-el's atempt to warn the kryptonians of the impending doom).Then to get a somewhat detailed and long scene of the destruction of Krypton, and the sacrifices made by Jor-El and Lara to protect and save their infant son. And then some ncie time dedicated to Smallville and with Klark Kent slowly discovering his powers as he grows up. And his departure to the big city Metropolis and where his powers finally mature, his founding of the fortress of solitude and the start of his career as a protect of the inocent and victims and setting things right, and his first brushes with both romance with Lois Lane and his new enemy Lex Luthor. And then, by the very end of the movie, Zod and his cronnies, who mannaged to escape their prision, arrive on Earth, and so does Brainiac with an agenda of his own.I would dig to watch a Superman movie like this. I wouldn't be in any hurry to see Superman fight some super-powered villains right from the start of the first movie. If a superman mvoi to be the start of a franchise, then begin as all beginings should begin: with enough time spend to set things up, and no hurries. It's not fast pacing that makes or breaks a movie, it's how well you tell the tale and how smart it is.
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those are crickets chirping..meaning that you are alone in this fight.Let's face it, Superman Returns was one of the most disapointing Comicbook films this past decade.Singer did a good job with the first two X-men movies, only to leave the franchise for this unstuffed turkey (same goes for James Marsden, the guy who played Cyclops.)A stalker, a deadbeat dad and a recycled plot only insults my intelligence,not nuture it.Now if there were to be a sequel to this bombfest, the whole situation would be just a dream that was hatched from one of Mongol's black Mercy stafishes(See or read "The Man who has everything".)or something familiar. SR was so lame, I almost wished they used Kevin Smith's Death of Superman script..........almost.
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I will never understand the desire of some peoples to clown the shit out of franchises.
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The only way that Superman Returns can be considered a total disapointment is if they expected a Superman movie to be a non-stop wrestling contest between supes and some superpowered clowish weirdo, and without anything else resembling drama, story and characterization. I'm sorry you guys didn't got a Michael Bay bullshit Superman movie, and thank fuckign god we didn't. Your disapointment is your problem.
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Their respective families are pursuing this lawsuit.Unless you live somewhere between here and Krypton's floating remains, you know the Superman origin. No need for an origin re-cap. There's no origin recap for Spider-Man or the X-Men, or Batman for that matter, in each of their successive movies, so why would Superman need an origin re-cap?That being said, let me express my whole-hearted faith in Warner Bros. to screw up what should be a simple movie franchise.
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Yes it would need a recap. The latest Superman movie that didn't had a rcap didn't worked too well, did it? It alienated too many people.Deal with it, the vast majority of the audiences ar enot dedicated geeks like you. The best way to make Superman is to tell his story anew, like they did for Batman Begins or Battlestar Galactica, or to do as Spider-Man, to start the story from the start and tell his origins.You geeks should stop being so stuck up with your knowledge of Superman and presume that everybody is on the same page. They aren't. Wake up.
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Does this mean the creators' families can make their own film, just only using certain elements. Maybe we'll have two competing Superman movies come out in the same year like the Bonds in 1983.
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I think a story about a mutt from one of Jor-El's test rockets ended up on Earth and discovering it has superpowers could be really cool. Don't have Kal-El in it. Don't ever actually call the dog "Krypto". Don't bring anything else from the DC universe into it. Just have his rocket crash in the middle of the wilderness and explore how a dumb mutt would react to being abandoned in the wilderness on a strange planet with no food and discovering it has super powers.
Don't let it fly, but allow it to leap really far.
You would have to include an obligatory fight with a grizzly bear. Beyond that, who knows what crazy shit you should come up with.
Add a short scene where he kicks the living shit out of The Littlest Hobo, and you've got yourself a fuckin' movie! -
. . . takes place entirely on Krypton. I think that would be a better Smalllville spinoff than Metropolis would.
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Sorry, but if you are going to do a Superman movie, especially a reboot, you need the origin. Just because fanboys know about it, doesn't mean the rest of the world does. Superman hasn't been a mainstream part of American culture since the 80s with the last of the Superman films with Reeve. You have to do an origin unless you are trying to make him mysterious, which would be silly. WB/DC gambled and lost. Right or wrong, they are going to need to pay the heirs a percentage if they want to continue with Supes. If they choose not to go that route, they are shooting themselves in the foot. Superman is what Batman isn't, so he is needed for the DC world. DC just needs to fork out the bucks so they can continue with Superman.
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I think with a better climax, Superman Returns would have been great. There were so many great individual moments, and there was one really good action sequence. I was really impressed with how kinetic and realistic the flight sequences looked. Frankly, I didn't like Lois. I don't know anyone that did. And the climax was just plain stupid. Apparently landing on the Kryptonite continent nearly killed him, but he can lift the entire continent.
I think it might have been interesting to drag out the Supes/Luther fight a bit, with Supes as a vulnerable mortal. You just get him struggling to fight a bunch of thugs. But the Kryptonite crystals were spread too thin, and unstable. The continent begins to crumble as Supes regains his strength. He turns the tables on the thugs, takes out the trash, and saves Luthor from falling into the sea.Meanwhile, Richard is the one that saves Lois. And he wakes her from her near-down drowning state with a kiss. As she wakes up, she whispers Superman's name. Richard leaves.Honestly, wouldn't that pretty much redeem the film and turn a turd into a gem? -
Aug 14, 2009 1:34:12 PM CDT
It will be ten years before they make another Superman movie...
by bones
And in that time, the legal situation will get resolved. Essentially, the decendants of Seigel and Schuster will get a bigger Royalty and DC will get to keep making the same stories over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again...
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I could see a Superman movie without Lex, maybe even without kryptonite but Superman HAS TO FLY!
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Lois calls Supes and asks him to meet her at the Fortress of Solitude. He is surprised to see that she is not alone. The Justice League is there for an intervention.
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He gets caught in front of a new prototype weapon the Americans are using that is supposed to disassemble DNA, and instead it gives him superpowers, including flight, X-RAY vision, and the ability to calm down Islamists who have been offended by cartoons or pop songs.
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Good Points-Did'nt know that but it makes sense. Thanks.
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because it didn't recap his origin.It was a failure because it was a poorly-written movie. Superman is one of the most-recognized licenses on the planet. Just pick a good story from 70-some-odd years of the character's history, and run with it. It's not that hard. Really.
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bizarro all the way
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Bay should direct the film,Mark Waid should write it and Routh should be Supes fighting a really pissed off Terrence Stamp Zod for two hours straight leveling mountains!!! That's right fuckers, BAY SHOULD DIRECT IT!!!
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I want them to stop focusing on the origin sure, but at the same time if they don't make something now these fucking court rulings will ruin everything. I thought the last one ruling was simple, they have to make a movie. Now there are fucking restrictions?! STOP IT!!! Make a movie, DC! Use Kirby's Fourth World with Darkseid invading instead of fucking non-blown up Krytponians! How fucking hard is this?!?!??!!!!
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Honestly, with a character like Superman, is that the ONLY story they can tell?
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No I wasn't really expecting as go for broke high octane superman film. (i did say "almost" in regards to the suggested Death of supes project.)Also with the exception of The Rock, I'm not a fan of Mikey Bay's Films.But fuck it, on the flipside i would love to see Supes go at it with the likes of Darksied or even a Captain Marvel. The first two Reeve movies had plenty of characterization and depth to warrant it an instant success.While SR was nothing more than a failed attempt at something "different" (Great,Super stalker dad and evil superboy.)Spacey's Luthor was boring and Routh's Clark kent was dismal at best and don't get me started on the chick that plays lois lane.Oh, my disapointment is not my problem.. it's Warner Bros, Singer's,Superman fans and yes..D-effin-C.Our tastes are polar opposites, but I love the anne Frank jokes. (Props!)
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Why would there be dogs in Krypton? Is Krypton perchance Earth? It's already stretchign that they would be humanoid looking liek humans, but coincidentally, they also have another native speaces which aslo look like Earth dogs? You got to be fucking kidding me! Of course Krypto the kryptonina dog is retard. It was always retard to begin with. The idea of the super mutt is dumb beyond belief, and there's no way to justify Krypto's existence other then exploitation of dog lovers. Bullshit!
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On the other hand, a TV show about Jor-El totally set in Krypton at the times before it's destruction would be pretty good, i agree with you on that, friend.Still, i would prefer to see that as the first hour of a new Superman movie. I belive an epic movie as a superman movie should take it's time establishing it's own universe, instead of rushing things out so that superman would had a wrestling match with the first superpowered clown most beloved by the geeks.
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Oh, I went there. Again.
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No, i don't think that the first two superman movies had much depth of character. But what it did they had a really talwented actor who took his role very seriously and injected to the character nuances and little subtleries which are not onthe script but that an imaginative actor could infuse to his acting to make his character richer. Christopher Reeves really took his role by the orns,a dn he was fantastically professional in what he did with the role. He did soemthign rarely actros do when they are put in this type of roles: take this as seriously as if you were acting in a Shakespeare play. And this type of movies always stand to gain with that attitude form the actors. It also worked wonderfully with Batman Begins and The Dark Knight (though those movies really did had intelligent and detailed scripts), on Iron Man. The actors didn't had that attitude with movies like Fantastic 4, and it shows, doesn't it?
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Saying the truth is never a waste. Don't even dare to feel remorse or repent forwhat you posted above. Be proud of it. You are in the right. Jar Jar Abrams' Fuck Trek is a great lesson in HOW NOT TO REBOOT.
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I tried reading your post, until it started to look like Bizarro was actually typing it. Slow down and proof read, buddy :)
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this seems like justice. Yeah, I know the heirs had nothing to do with creating Superman, but DC couldn't bother to treat S&S like human beings when they were alive, so they should pay.
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Thanks, Bizarro Begins for 2011!
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...to license the material in question. Of course, they'll, Warner, have to pay them fairly, and give them a cut of the royalties.
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You mean Joe Simon's 95? I think Siegel's been dead a while now.
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We get it, WB and Seigel's, you both want to own the world's most iconic comic character. Seriously though, f@ck off and settle it, so we can enjoy Supe's...
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We get it, WB/DC and Seigel's, you both want to own the world's most iconic comic character. Seriously though, f@ck off and settle it, so we can enjoy Supe's...
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Where is Superman from? I need MORE origin stories!!!! Please? Let's reboot Superman and Batman and tell where they came from again, it's so hard to understand who these guys are!
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DC has Superman, Batman and Green Lantern. Out of those three Superman is my least favorite. In fact, I don't really like the character much at all. I did like Straczynski's Supreme Power Marvelverse version - Hyperion. That was pretty cool.
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His mom and dad were aliens named Lor-el and Jara, and he's from the planet Weeaboo, which still spawns the element Kryptonite upon its explosion. Problem solved.
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I'm sick and tired of the origin story being retold umpteenth times over and over again. Most of us know it for the big guys (Batman/Supes/Spidey) so let's not make it an hour long just because Grandma can't tell what the fuck is going on.
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That's my favorite restaurant ... you know, the one with all the shit on the walls and stuff ...
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Everything is better with a better climax ... just ask Bob's wife from the Enzyte commercials ...
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especially after reading the last sentence.It seemed as if most of the cast (Fantastic Four) only cared about the paycheck.However, I did like Michael Chiklis Ben Grimm and even that Evans guy was OK for Johnny Storm.The main culprit was the shitty script and piss poor directing.The problem with Superman Returns is that old rule "if it ain't broke.." it didn't need those extra nuances and that bullet in the eye shot is unecessary as we all know that Supes is practically invincible.You liked it, more power to ya. me, I'm hoping for a Superman Movie/reboot that is somewhat more canon than the last one.
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It doesn't mean they won't let Warner use the origin. They just want to be properly compensated, you know like Stan the Man Lee. Just put them in as a cameo. But if they want to make a good nay great Superman movie. Loose Luthor bring in I don't know Metallo or maybe Mongol. With someone sinister behind the scenes pulling strings and at the end of the movie have a close up of red glowing eyes. Which would make all you geeks blow all over yourselves and your mothers who are accompanying your old asses to the movie because you don't have a drivers license and your bike is on flat.
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I'm dissapointed. Those are classic. Anyways, to Assimovelives, the plot you described for a good superman movie would be good, but isn't that pretty much what Richard Donner did in the first Superman movie,? The first 30 min is on Krypton, the next 45 are in Smallville, etc. Originally Donner wanted it to end with Zod breaking free from the phantom zone. I don't see why DC is having such a hard time with their movie franchises? They're owned by WB. It can't get easier than that. It looks like they've finally learned a thing or two from Marvel who got Iron Man right by involving their top selling comic book writers by getting Geoff Johns to write the Flash movie. Maybe they can see fit to do the same with a Superman movie and get a good Superman movie made before 2020.
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I know a lot you love that rights move back to the creators, but as far as I’m concerned this is another
reason Shakespeare was right – we should kill all the lawyers….
The Siegel’s have sold their rights like 2 or three frakking times…yet they keep getting the rights reverted to them. WTF ever happened to contract law.
They could have demanded a percentage or not sold…they could have marketed the character elsewhere…but they didn’t they SOLD HIM PERIOD.
All this is not to mention that the character likely would never have gotten as popular without the DC changes of adding flight, kryptonite, almost all the villains, and otherwise fleshing out the Superman World….
Hey- Maybe John Lennon’s kids should sue the Jackson estate to get all the Beatles songs back, get paid a settlement, and then sue again 10 years from now when they’ve spent all the money.
Sorry, but this is fucking retarded.
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we don't need to see Superman's origin on film again. it's not like there's a whole lotta room to dissect Clark Kent's psyche like Batman Begins did with Bruce Wayne. besides, Superman Returns was so bogged down with stuff that happened in the previous films that it just felt like a rehashed version of the first movie, so making a movie that yet again retells something we've already seen is just tired. forget about Superman's origins. everyone and their grandmother knows it already. go with a story that puts Superman in the here and now without flashbacks to his origins and without repeated trips to the Fortess of Solitude to get a pep talk from his dad's hologram. give us something else! perhaps Darkseid invading the Earth and kicking Superman's ass? there's an epic Superman story you can tell without all the heavy-handed reflection on the character's past.
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Great graphic novel- would make a FUCKING AWESOME MOVIE. If you haven't read it you should do so.
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One thing I definitely liked about TDK...The Joker just fucking APPEARED. No explanation given or desired. We need more of that shit.
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Brianiac, Darksied- Legion of Doom- Give Supes people to fight and something to fight for. We know his back-story. I loved "Returns" but lets poo or get off the pot.
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Aug 14, 2009 7:06:25 PM CDT
All this Means is that Siegel is Finally Gon' Gits PAID
by curtis3martin
That's it. They will just pay the man and make whatever movie they want. He couldn't possibly have any interest in holding onto the property except to get paid.
Much about nothing--except hooray for a golden age comic creator who finally sees some green n gold! -
Aug 14, 2009 7:08:46 PM CDT
We need a completely revionist take on the cinematic Superman.
by 3d-man
And I'm not talking about that Smallville bullsh*t.
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and by Jews, I mean Siegel and his family's lawyers.
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Now we could get 2 different takes on superman. one DC/warners without any origin. and one independantly produced origin story. fuck yeah!
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Why does everyone just assume that Warner and these wretched Siegels won't just play ball and make a movie? Surely they want to now CASH IN after all of this court bullshit right? I doubt they'd go through all of that to just sit on the property and let it wither...no, they want to get paid like the greedy cunts they are!
So all this pissing and moaning is probably a waste of time.
What I wonder about is how this will affect Smallville's 9th season? -
Tom Welling can play Clark Kent/Superman and Smallville season 8 episode "Hex" is proof. Bring Tom Welling and Erica Durance to the big screen in the next Superman movie.
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Singertired so hard to make his film feel like a cntiunation of the Donner films universe, but then goes and casts an actress in the part of Lane who not only looks and acts virtually nothing like Margot Kidder, but actually appears far YOUNGER than the characer looked in Donner's original? That took me straight out of the movie and for me the story never reovered. They should have cast Pamela Adlon from 'Lucky Louie' and 'Californication'. She would have been a perfect contination of the Lois Lane character from the Donner universe.
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Superman Returns proved that. You can't have a movie where a guy who can lift an entire island into space is the protagonist, unless it's some kind of parody or spin, not taken seriously.
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Aug 14, 2009 8:09:17 PM CDT
Two words why the Siegels/Schusters will ALWAYS battle this...
by qweruiop
...contingency lawyers. When you have lawyers that are willing to work for free, will battle a case for years upon years, will ensure that they dedicate some part of their workweek to this on the off chance that they'll eventually get a win/settlement and get a percentage of the HUGE payout eventually given to the families, that's why this case will continue on and on and on. The lawyers (and essentially the families) have everything to GAIN and nothing to LOSE on this matter except time, while DC has everything to lose and nothing to gain by this. F$*#ing lawyers. They truly are the scumbags of the Earth. And also what people don't get, the ones who keep shouting about creator rights, is that the Siegel/Schuster duo sold their rights to Superman TWICE! Once in the early 30's and later in the mid 70's. Even when they sold the rights the first time they didn't just get $130 (as that famous figure keeps being thrown out there). They actually still worked at DC and made a large amount of money from the limited bonuses they received while working on the title. I read somewhere (I wish I could remember where) they were making over $100,000 per year back then, which in today's dollars equals over $1,500,000. That's real money they were making; how many creators today make that kind of salary huh? But they felt that with DC making millions upon millions off of their creation they wanted more, so they sued and were then kicked out by DC. I wonder how many people know that part of the story huh? How they were actually making millions but due to greed suffered for it later on. Now the greed has been transferred onto these deadbeat grandson/granddaughters, who didn't create a single iota of Superman or helped with the stories/art in the 70+ years of the characters history, but still want a piece of the pie.
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the despite whatever legal entanglements, the Superman movie produced does NOT cop out with a "reimagining", an expression that--Star Trek notwithstanding--has produced little other than misery for film geeks everywhere.
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why aren't CBR or Newsarama reporting on this? seems like kind of a massive deal, if true, in the comics sphere.......
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Yes , Superman is the lamest character of DC's power player characters (except for maybe Barry Allen...snore).
DC woulda coulda shoulda made a landmark decision if they'd kept Superman dead when he died, imagine the repurcussions felt throughout every title down the years and the legacy anyone donning a mask or tights would feel within the context of the DCU. For those who like Batman as grim as possible, well, the death of of the boy scout wouldn't exactly soften his worldview...and really, these days Superman's only function seems to be to contrast Batman's cynicism and Wonder Woman's "noble" warrior spartan impulses. Hell his permanent death would allow them to move in whatever broad editorial direction they wanted, brighter and more hopeful, or darker and more morally ambiguous. Maybe a mix of both with two decidedly different camps forced to uneasily coexist. There's possibilites there.
No one seems to have realized that the ball is now in DC's court to hamper and stall anything the family might want to do via legal wrangling. They are owned by Warner Bros., and while DC alone could probably afford to hire an army of lawyers to do just that, they have the financial backing of a media giant...who probably keep their own legal battalion on retainer. I'd imagine one of those sharks has the teeth to turn this around.
The fact is aside from possibly the Green Lantern series, DC's best stuff these days is decidedly not superhero stories. Jonah Hex is a great series, Vertigo still puts out more good than bad, and the best attempt at a tights and cape book recently has been the first half dozen or so issues Mike Kunkel produced for Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam from the Johnny DC kids line. Unfortunately people just can't get enough of adolescent power fantasies. I grew up reading DC. It used to bug me that they always came second to Marvel in sales for some odd reason. Over the last few years it seems the editorial staff at DC has been asleep at the wheel, or, conversely they've all been doing crank to the point that everything they hear sounds good to them. Did Grant Morrison even have an editor for the past few years? All Star Superman being the exception. While I am thinking about it, thanks Grant Morisson for the two really interesting issues of The Authority, the several months wait for another issue, and then finally a shocking announcement that you wouldn't be doing the book after all. What, while you were supposed to be writing that book and Frank Miller was supossed to be writing All Star Batman, were the two of you take long strolls in the park discussing Burroughs and black and white?
And THAT seems to be the biggest problem in comics today: everybody's a rockstar now. Born out of the Image mentality of the 90s we get months to years long waits between issues now. Hey John Cassaday, how long did it take between the last issue of Planetary and the fabled final issue? Hey Mark Millar, you write for a living, ever hear of the word 'finish', as in any of the multiple dangling storylines you've got swinging in the breeze along with your Hollywood soaked dick? The rest of you know who you are. And RobLeifeld learn how to f#@^ing draw. And stop writing, period. Not even a letter to your aunt. Because even she just chuckles to herself and thinks, "This makes no damn sense at all". In fact, Robert Kirkman is the only person I can think of that can get more than one project done on time...kudos to you. Ellis and Ennis just keep doing what you do so well, please!
So yeah, I work in a comic book store. And I listen to you whine about this as you line up for it, it's comparable to listening to someone whine about getting syphillis as they continue banging whores. "One More Day" should've been the straw to break the collective camel's back, the ultimate dickslap, but you all seem to like that sort of treatment from "the Big Two". Truth be told I think we all, myself included, love to nitpick...it's what continuity exists for. Dissecting all that minutiae fills up time! As for the people bitching about the price increase from Marvel and DC as they plunk 'em down on the counter, either send a message and stop buying titles that for some unknown reason are worth a dollar more than they used to be, or please shut the @#*% up! Why Marvel and DC decided to jack the price of some (the big sellers) and not others (the not-so big sellers) in a crap economy is beyond me...I don't have any secret knowledge as to their motives just because I sell them. Remember, comics are a luxury item, please.
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Superman is owned by the creators and WB is forced to make another Superman movie. The object for both sides is profit. For owners to profit, WB must make a lot of money. To make a lot of money, WB must make the ultimate Superman movie. To make the ultimate movie, WB must use fan-familiar characterization and proven fan-loved niblets plus original story and technology(3D anyone?) oorrrrrr WB could say screw-it and muff it big time and self destruct their way out of a contract....maybe?
I prefer the 3D option -
Oh wait. They settled that. Just like Warner & the creators' heirs will. Everyone loves money.
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Aug 15, 2009 12:25:47 AM CDT
Maybe the heirs with take the character to the ARCHIE folks.
by bob cryptonight
Maybe they'll start up a whole new SUPERMAN franchise. If DC and Marvel can both have "Captain Marvels", then why not competing Supermen? Think of the crossover potential!
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If you don't think so then you're simply in denial.
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All he needs is a good writer.
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Aug 15, 2009 1:00:04 AM CDT
Either continue to beat a 80-year-old-dead-horse...
by cheyne_stoking_dms
that died 100 years ago or shamelessly turn Supes into a black dude. The choice is up to you, fat cats. Either way, I'll always say the character is OBSOLETE.
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He is the greatest metaphor for the use of power in the US. He is wish fulfillment times 10,000. He is simply one of the greatest character concepts ever.
How he is used might suck, but the basic concept is fucking rich and as deep as anything that ever existed, and much deeper than Batman or Spider-Man.
I don't think he is obsolete, I think people have become stagnant with him and lack imagination to see his potential. -
the Siegels will get a big fat cheque, a movie will be made and the studio will fill a warehouse with money
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So you're just thinking out loud? Pondering? Why... So... Negative? This has all kinds of possibilities both negative AND positive. There's absolutely nothing to look at or read about this project to be negative about yet, so give it a rest.
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Someone says that how can you have a character who can lift an island still be the protagonist; I say we have a country that can invade and destroy any army on earth but is still harassed and stymied by tribesmen with bombs.
And just like how we have a super-power on earth that people all over question it's motives, and debates amongst itself what it the right course and if we are staying within our established principles, we also have a man of nearly unlimited power trying to do the right thing but debating amongst himself what that is. Superman is one the best metaphors for the American consciousness ever made. And as long as America is a super-power and global force, Superman is relevant. -
Too faggy.
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but with nothing being put behind him he's put into the same category as Mickey Mouse. A larger than life character that simply survives on its past achievements. If Superman was a real life dude, Clark Kent would've retired a long time ago. By the way, there's no R in my display name.
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Aug 15, 2009 1:19:42 AM CDT
Another reason that got me to thinking he's obsolete...
by cheyne_stoking_dms
was something actor Michael Caine was quoted saying. Something along the lines of "Superman is the way America sees itself, while the rest of the world sees it as Batman."
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And the rest of the world sees us as Lex Luthor.
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What super hero doesn't? And that doesn't mean they can't be made relevant again. Bond was an obsolete relic of the Cold War, but they manage to bring him back.
My problem is that to many people are stuck on how Superman is, not how he was or could be. The Superman of 1938-1941 is not the same Superman of 1956 who is not the same Superman of 1985. I don't see why they can't change him to fit modern audiences and give him dilemmas that reflect the problems that America is facing today. -
...how'd that work out?
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but what about the fact that he has no real disguise? I'm not trying to sound like a dick. But, that always rubbed me the wrong way. I always thought it was the characters biggest flaw. I believe that's something modern audiences couldn't possibly get over. Ecspecially with everyone wanting film to be realistic as possible.
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First, all super hero secret identities require a huge leap of faith. I mean, how hard would it really be to figure out that Batman is really Bruce Wayne. Batmobile's aren't cheap, so only Bruce Wayne could afford them, plus he has the motivation (death of parents) and you could never hide the fact that he is well built. Hell, he isn't even invulnerable so any bruises he suffers would be visible on Bruce Wayne (plus paparazzi would be chasing him all day, so sooner or later someone would figure out his night life).
As for a disguise, Clark Kent wears the disguise. He wears glasses, a hat, and acts meek and nerdy. Who is ever going to assume that milquetoast is Superman (especially when you don't know that Superman has a secret identity). And originally Superman wasn't that big of publicity hound, he would appear and quickly disappear like a guardian angel so people would never get a good look at his face (he wasn't ever photographed in his original appearances).
Finally, to me part of his appeal is his lack of disguise. Superman was a pair of Jewish kids fantasy of being accepted in America. Clark Kent transforms from nerdy, wimpy reject (i.e Shuster & Siegel) into muscular, handsome All-American WASP hero Superman. I think if he wore a mask it would disrupt some of the characters appeal - he isn't trying to hide his identity, he actually has TWO identities, each of which are just as important to his mythos. Bruce Wayne doesn't need to even show up in a Batman story; Clark Kent does.
And also, you have to admit, Christopher Reeves sold the two identity thing perfectly. So I could see someone else still figuring a way to do it nowadays and seem believable to modern audiences (to a degree obviously). -
Studio execs need to keep their hands off shit that they swear they know what it's really about, leave the true story lines to the passionate, not some new college grad who knows how to re-write CLASSIC stories. Bozos.
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So what the fuck is DC doing about this. They gonna have to rewrite everything. They cant use superman without fucking the family's permission? damn warner bros gonna have to start paying them off to use the partial rights as well.
Wonder why did the fucking judge even split it down the line like that, why not give the family full access and all rights? I mean their family member was the creator right. but let me guess DC published his work as a work for hire contract shit, so whatever he created would be partially owned by DC / action comics??? sucks. -
I hope I don't across as a know-it-all or a smug dick. It is just that I am a firm believer that Superman could still work (as could Robin Hood, Sherlock Holmes and Tarzan, all of whom some people have labeled obsolete).
I do agree though you can't depict him like they have been for the last 20 some years. He has been playing runner up to Spider-Man, Batman and the X-Men in popularity for years so whatever they are doing now isn't working. -
Grodd, Darkseid, Brainiac, and, what the fuck, Bizarro and a half dozen corn dogs using buildings as batons and Supes as Rodney King.
But just like King pulled out a can of spinach and started mopping the floors with cops (at least, I think he did...I was doing a lot of drugs that year), Superduperman whips it out and starts plugging holes. Fuck yeah. -
You'd have to be something of a scientist to make any sort of difference in this world. I really wish they'd make a movie where he isn't a complete dumbass.
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shoot all the damn lawyers.
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The creators lost the rights to their creation many years ago. They then sued to get them back. Lost. Sued again. Lost again. DC decided to give them something back, awarding each a pension of sorts and health benefits. It's more than they were legally entitled to. Now their kids want their share? Why? The creators died over a decade ago. The kids had nothing to do with the character and should not be entitled to a penny.
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Check out Justice League: The New Frontier, the direct-to-DVD movie, to see that Superman doesn't need to be revamped to be justified. For that matter, any of Bruce Timm's work.
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Donner's Superman mvoei barely wastes 5 minutes at Krypton, it's barely 10 minutes on Smallville, and the rest of the movie, half the time is spent on lame comedy, turning Lex Luthor into a dumb clown instead of trying to make him scary, intelligent and dangerous.Don't get me wrong, i like donner's superman movie, i absolutly LOVE the scenes at Krypton and Smallville, but after the movie leaves those, it loses a lot of it's best qualities, and is only saved by the scene when Christopher Reeves plays for drama. The movie is OK, but could had been so much better. they were just too impacient to go for brand lame comedy, and forgot the other things they had done much better.Yeah, i would love a superman movie that would spend a lot of time at Krypton, quite a good deal in Smallville with young Kar-el discovering his powers and his nascent sense of alienation from the other humans, then his arrival at the big city and how his powers became more proeminent, his early relationship with Loins Lane (i would make her an older woman then Clark Kent aparent age, she being an already established jornalist while he's just out of college), and i would present Superman's first clash with Lex Luthor, which, him being the genious he is, is not caugh by Superman because Supes has no direct proof of his shennigans and since Supes uphold the values of justice and due process, he can't do any arrest, and yet, by now they both know each other and what each can do. and then Gen. Zod, his croonies ad Brainiac arrives by the very end of the movie, when Superman though he had his lot in life figured out and knew what to expect from life.And you know what? i would make Gen. Ziod and his croonies stronger and faster then Supes, so that Supes had no advantage in direct engagement. Supes real advantage would be his knowledge of Earth, his knowledge of the terrain, like a guerrilla who fights an invading army, his love for mankind, and that mankind is on his side and supports him. Hell, even Lex Luthor would be on his side eventually, because he would rather had supes has an enemy for he knows him, then the unpredictable and uncontrollable Gen. zod, who views mankind as nothignbut bugs to crush. Of course, this would be in a second movie. In fact, the opening of the second movie would be seeing Gen. Zod and his croonies compeltly anihallating and kill someother alien race, right after they had escaped the phamtom zone, and they did it just because they could. And the reason they didn't destroy mankind fast enough is because they first wanted to play with Supes and thrown at him the punishment his father once thrown at them. In fac,t it would be fun that Gen. Zod would be able to torture Jor-El's remaining soul guarded at the fortress Of Solitude's databanks, by fusing it with Kar-El's own. Yeah, my story would had Gen. zod torturing supes and his dad, and they be saved by Lex Luthor himself.And in the middle of all this, we would had Brainiac playing both sides, with an agenda that nobody can understands.This is what i would do. but i'm not a Superman fan, which means, i'm not one of those who wanta superman movie to be a nonstop explosathron and with supes fithing nonstop a parphenalia of brightly coloured supwerpowered clowns from begining to end. As a non-fan of superman, i'd like a movie that actually had story, drama, plot logic, background story, and an epic feel that is based more on the exploration of superman's own nature then just on how big an explostion a filmmaker could shove every 5 minutes of screentime. Is this somewhat derivative of Donner's movie? It's as derivative as Batman Begins was from any earlier stories that told Batman's ealier days fightig crime. The problem is not if there is some overlapping or repetition, it's how well you tell your story in your own way.
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This all "no need for an origin story" is one of the reason why us geeks are despised by the general public. We suffer from this self-indulgent bulslhits, where we presume that, because we know soemthing by heart, everybody does as well. No they do not. The average public might now the most geenral things about such stuff as superman, like he's an alien from Krypton that blew up. but that's it. they know no details, nor they cre to investigate futher because, frankly, it's outside their sphere of interest.To make a new superman movie that would be a de facto reboot of the saga and a deviation of the Donner and Singer movies, it is imperative to tell the start of superman's orings anew. As Christopher Nolan's Batman Begins did. A new origin story also has an important dramatic function: seperates this new tellings from what went before, it ciments the notion of a reboot, which most people got it from Batmna Begins as a movie that was divorced from Tim Burton and Joel Schumaker's previous Batman movies.You geeks don't presume that just because you know superman's origins by heart that that is vox populi. It isn't. What you know is not shared by the vast majority of the people who are important to make any new superman movie a box office sucess. They matter more then we the geeks do. We are the cops of quality, but they are the ones that make any property fly or sunk. Our job is to see if the filmamkers who will make any new superman movie will do a good or bad job. That's our job, not to presume what the public knows or not.
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I used to fall in with this line of thinking until I saw Superman Returns in a theatre full of teenagers, who hadn't had a Superman movie made within their lifetime. Even with Lois and Clark and Smallville, the majority of the audience and ALL the children in attendence didn't know Superman's origins. They were asking questions constantly about what Kryptonite was, if Superman was an alien, who Lois Lane was, etc. It's a mistake to think that younger non comics fans know all this stuff these days. The franchise needs a reboot that really delves into the origin and re-introduces Superman to the modern world, similar to the approach taken with "Batman Begins," even if the Siegels demand a sizeable amount of money up front for it. It's not a "waste" if done right. That's actually the most interesting Superman story ever told anyway.
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Fuck Warners - they spent 250 million on a angst ridden love triangle-stalker-drama with 30 seconds of action in SUPERMAN RETURNS - probably the worst bang for your buck ever. The whole movie was a drab looking mess which ended with a hospital climax (!).
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Just cut out the damn origin stuff, everyone know all of that. Start with superman being superman, and some real enemies, not some insignificant bank robber.
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Always a pleasure to help.
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Read my and jsarnold513 post to enlight you on why it's a bad idea to cut out the origin story compeltly. Attitudes like yours are a demosntration of sgeek self-indulgenc,ea nd oen reason why we the geeks are so despised and joked about by the mainstream. Get a clue.
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that is the misconception. kent is a humble farm boy from smallville. i think that if it was possible kent would retire superman. there are some comic stories, i can't for the life of me cite any off hand as an example, that play to the aspect that his parents brought him up to be a incredibly decent HUMAN BEING. thus the fact that he feels obligated to use his super powers for the good of humanity.the great part of some superman stories, which morrison used to such great effect, is that the superman identity in many ways makes it difficult for kent to live a normal life. that is the appeal for me. he could rule the world and effectively become the god king of earth but that isn't his personality. his human parents raised him superMAN not SUPERman.
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also i personally don't have a problem with doing a origin story. that's the beauty of comic books. the dc canon, if any remembers has been reinvented many times by many artists and writers. green lantern was a magic based character if i remember correctly. someone correct me if i'm wrong.but superman has some very iconic signature themes that have essentially stayed very static simply because it works great that way.i think they should use the morrison issue of all star superman that has clark going back in time but disguised as an alternate reality superman to see his dad one more time before he dies as the basis for the origin story. that issue was my favorite.
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fuck now i've read it all....
pot
kettle
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Aug 15, 2009 9:23:29 AM CDT
they already owned the rights to the costume, so all this means.
by malkovichmalkovich
is that WB (and DC Comics) will have to pay the Siegels estate for a license to use the character if they want to use the elements that that Siegels now own.
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Finally we can get a Superman who wears black latex, has a sheild that turns into a pair of blade weapons and a climatic battle against a giant spider!
This is going to be Superman as he is meant to be! -
This Superman crap has been kicked around so much I've lost interest. Just make some new DC Animated stuff and leave it be.
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...this decision makes it all the easier for you to just "let it go," doesn't it? You produced the ultimate Superman film (yet to be topped) in 1978. Be satisfied, and use this ruling as an excuse to amp up development on "Shazam!," toss more money and prestige at it, and make it imaginative and fun enough to secure a new franchise. And let the Caped Wonder finally fly to a new home somewhere else.
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I, for one, am sick to death of Lex Luthor. Every damn movie, same thing, same result...how long has Supes been around? What about Braniac or any one of a bazillion other baddies he's been up against? I know, let's have him go up against all the crappy producers and directors that have worked him over in past films? I say let Brad Roberts of Crash Test Dummies write the next script. It will make "Leaving Los Vegas" seem like the feel-good comedy hit of the year!
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God bless the courts. By the time they're done every facet of the Superman myth will be owned by a separate rightsholder. Remember how long it took to bring the first Spiderman movie to the screen? That's nothing. Brandon Routh will be using a walker by the time they clean this mess up.
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I WANT TO SEE SOME BATMAN VS SUPERMAN WITH ARMIE HAMMER AS THE DARK KNIGHT. IF WOLFGANG'S NO LONGER DOWN, LETS JUST BRING IN UWE BOLL, BRET RATNER, OR MAYBE EVEN BRING JOEL SCHUMACHER BACK FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES. I SAY HURL THIS THING OUT FOR A SPRING 2010 RELEASE AND JUST GO DIGITAL. IF WE CANT USE THE ORIGIN STORY, LETS USE THAT KRYPTON WAR JJ ABRAMS SCRIPT WHERE THE PLANET NEVER BLEW UP. WE'LL CHANGE THE NAME OF KRYPTON TO MAGNATITE AND CHANGE JOR EL'S NAME TO STEVE.
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Aug 15, 2009 1:19:39 PM CDT
as much as i like the fact that the creators have the rights
by christophermoltosante
this could be disasterous to the whole superman franchise.
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Bay (minus) generation dummy pop culture axe body spray writers (Plus) Marc Waid the dude who wrote kingdom Come (plus) Routh in the original Superman suit (plus) the mayhem of an out for Revenge psycotic Zod, smashing moutains to dust played by Stamp = the greatest fucking Superhero film ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Aug 15, 2009 2:05:10 PM CDT
I always wondered why General Zod went by "General" after..
by zombieheathledger
...he'd taken the White House. Wouldn't he have given himself a promotion after that, like say, "Supreme Ruler Zod"?
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And General is the highest rank in the military.
Myanmar is ruled by a military dictatorship and their prime minister still goes by the name General Thein Sein. -
...gone ahead with a second film instead of being all weepy that (*gasp*) Superman Returns didn't do as well as Batman Begins, they would have been fine. Second films in the superhero genre are more often than not the better films. Singer and company could have learned from what worked and didn't work in SR and applied those lessons to a second film. Any kind of reboot now, so soon after SR, would carry the reek of desperation and failure. Their best bet is still the one they've had all along: bring back Routh and co. Pull a Marvel, and have Bale make an appearance. A totally new Superman reboot will go over about as well as a Battlestar Galactica movie without any of the televison cast. The public will ask "Why?" and stay away before they'll get interested in the film.
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I agree with what you are saying, but the thing is when he moved to Metropolis his fake identity became Clark Kent. The way he acts as Clark Kent is not his real personality (at least before John Byrne). Clark Kent is an act: wimpy, scared, nervous, unsure of himself, wimpy, everything that Superman is not.
The real fucked up thing about it is if you think about it Kal-El can only act like "himself" around a couple of people - his adoptive parents (if they are alive), his cousin Supergirl or maybe around some other superheroes like Batman, WW and the some of the other GL members. Everyone else, including Lois Lane, he has to play a part. -
I think Luthor needs a facelift/reboot more than Superman does. That is one of the best characters ever, and the perfect arch-enemy for Superman, but his depiction has become obsolete. Just like how Nolan and Ledger updated the Joker, I think they have to do the same with Luthor.
Of course, he doesn't have to be the only villain. In the comics and cartoon it has been shown time and again that Luthor has either created (Bizarro, Metallo) or teamed up with other villains (the Brainiac-Luthor Team, The Terrible Trio, even Zod). -
Aug 15, 2009 3:57:22 PM CDT
I actually thought Hancock had the right idea for how to redo Su
by prof. pop-cult
Except Hancock wasn't good. But the premise behind it, a far more realistic take on a super-powered human, was solid.Consider this: The public knows that Clark Kent is a "superman". He's just a celebrity, that's all, so there's no need for a secret identity. He works as a traveling reporter for the Daily Planet News Network -- he's like an Anderson Cooper type.So how does this version of Clark Kent deal with juggling his celebrity image, the expectation (and burden) of the public wanting him to be more of an active hero, and his pursuit of a love life (with Lois, who could either be a fellow on-air journalist or his producer). Now imagine this version of Superman with a similar production design and look as Hancock. This could be the best way to do a "realistic" version of Superman, akin to Nolan's take on Batman.
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He might be able to jump high and dive from the sky. But he wouldn't be able to fly. He's a super strong dude, who can withstand falls from great heights. And he would still have the ability to see through walls (though in a limited capacity) -- his eyes would have the ability to see the world in infrared.I would keep the kryptonite. It wouldn't make him weak when it's near him -- it would be the only material on earth which can penetrate his skin (and thus his enemies use it to make bullets to stop and try to kill him). Imagine Clark having to use his super-hearing and super-seeing skills to avoid a sniper armed with kryptonite bullets. This is how Superman needs to be redone for these modern days.
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Brendan Fraser didn't play Superman with Brett Ratner as director. Now that would've been a shit show on wheels.
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I'd still have in the movie. But he wouldn't be the supervillain in the movie (though he could become that way in following movies). I'd establish he's a childhood frenemy of Clark's from Smallville, and make Lex the President of the United States.
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So could this situation end up like Thunderball? Where 2 parties own partial rights to the same character and could make two separate films?
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More campy Lex anyone?
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If some one doesn't know by now the origins of Supe, then too bad for them. Supes needs a supervillin that can mach him. Lex has been done to death, let have Brainiac, Darksied or Gerneral Zod.
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Is the most ridiculous shit I've ever read on these boards (and I've been here a LOOOOONG time). By that genius's argument we should probably just insert the origin every seven-to-ten minutes in every movie. You know? Just in case? I mean, they'll forget the 1978 origin and the 2006 recap. What kind of straw man bullshit is this "that's why geeks are despised" argument? Fuck off, twat! The public "knows no details, nor they care to investigate further because, frankly, it's outside their sphere of interest?" Well, fucking good. Fuck 'em. Guess they won't be seeing the movie 'cause it's "outside their sphere of interest" so who gives a rat's ass? You should probably learn how to spell, too. The nine thousandth "origin" story takes time away from (30-45 minutes?) the "real" story AND has to cover a vast amount of time (30 years?) regurgitating shit that NO ONE EVEN *HAS* TO KNOW. Let me reiterate: NO ONE EVEN *HAS* TO BE SHOWN HIS ORIGIN!!!! It's just not that important now. (Don't get me wrong - I revere the origin story and consider it an integral back story, just not necessary for a well-told Supes tale.)1) Establish people in danger, unable to be assisted by regular means.
Have Superman save them with a combination of super powers.Character ESTABLISHED!!! Problem solved.How many Westerns start out with a thirty-year exposition on WHY the Man With No Name is such a bad ass? Why didn't we see John McClane's childhood, cop training, marriage, and separation? Why didn't we start out on Predator homeworld watching countless eons of evolution that culminates in our hero-villain? Why?'CAUSE IT BLOODY WELL DOESN'T MATTER AND IT CAN BE ESTABLISHED WITHOUT ANOTHER GODFORSAKEN ORIGIN STORY!!!If you want to know John McClane's origins, go read Nothing Lasts Forever! If you don't know the Man With No Name's origin, make one up! And if you don't know Superman's origin by motherfucking now, PICK UP A GODDAMNED COMIC BOOK, YOU IGNORANT FUCK! Or shit! Browse the fucking Wiki listing. Motherfucker, you got to spoon feed these fucking idiots EVERYTHING?!!?!I know, maybe Superman should enter every scene AND recite his entire origin from Krypton to this point in the tale, including a listing of all his powers and weaknesses? That shit sound good to you? I mean, I'd hate to leave out any of the brain-dead lowlife pot smoking sorry ass excuses for fucking humanity that can't remember who this guy in the red cape is from the last scene! Wouldn't wanna leave those guys behind now? What if they're so high that they just can't remember? We should retell the origin in EVERY SCENE! Genius! I am a motherfucking genius.Fucking this is why people hate geeks, my ass! I sure as shit know why people hate you, Assimov Lives! You're an ass! A self-loathing one at that. -
In the voice of Mort Goldman from Family Guy. Give it a shot. Read his shit out loud with Mort Goldman's voice and tell me that shit's not dead on.Fucking we *MUST* have an origin to satisfy morons! You mean "you" there, don't you, Asimov. Not morons, you.
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... OR, we can just sit here and go "Unless somebody wants to pony up a few mil to make the dated FX a bit less cheesy, Donner pretty much nailed it the first time around and let's stop making fucking SUPERMAN movies now, okay?" Oh, and SUPERMAN RETURNS sucked. Let's just clear up that confusion right now. Yeah, we may have "wanted something like the Donner version of SUPERMAN", but SUPERMAN RETURNS wasn't it. Maybe you're too young to remember, but SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE was actually interesting and watchable. SUPERMAN RETURNS was about some eighteen year old kid in blue pantyhose that gets his ass kicked for about ninety minutes while the director makes a half-hearted attempt at a SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE fan-film with 180 million dollars worth of unnecessary special effects. If that's the best we can do, why not just hang the fucking thing up and, oh, I don't know, make an ORIGINAL MOVIE, for a change?!?
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Asomiv Lives officially pwned beyond all recognition!
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you are right. i agree with most of your points from this talkback, including the fact that superman can be a very rich metaphor for many things. i think the immigrant metaphor is used by siegal and shuster in regards to superman coming from another planet. i also think you can say that kal-el is another aspect of superman that is altered by the superman/clark kent identities.originally, he is nurtured to be clark kent then learns that he is kal-el but instead becomes superman a guardian of earth. he moves to metropolis but has to alter his clark kent identity effectively making it his secret identity or mask to be able to operate as superman. i think the best part of byrne's man of steel is when lana lang tells kent, in his moment of angst, that superman doesn't belong to her but to the world. this is the beginning of him building a literal and metaphorical fortress of solitude. this is the compelling thing about superman. he wrestles with the fact that there are two paths that he must inevitably go down. one is become kal-el son of krypton, who is compelled to reseed krypton on earth or be clark kent and have a normal life, maybe marry lana and waste the gifts he has. instead he does the selfless thing and becomes superman, effectively altering his relationships with friends and family. those are my humble opinions.
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he is morally incorruptible. on a personal level the paris hilton celebrity machine is distasteful. he isn't booster gold. he is compelled by a greater good but wants to maintain his true identity. this is why he has to compartmentalize with a secret identity. i personally would rule the world if i had superman's powers but of course i'm morally bankrupt.
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I won't care about another superman movie. He's too perfect to be interesting, and if it gets made, they'll be taking the LETS MAKE IT DARKER! route, which has gotten old at this point. No more Superman, at least until we can get a good writer who can actually make him exciting.
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Those that bash it should take a look at all the ideas for a new Superman movie that got kicked around for 15 years before they let Singer do what he wanted. Will Smith as Superman! Nicholas Cage as Superman! A gay (literally gay) robot sidekick. No flying. No costume. Fighting a giant spider. Lex Luthor turning out to be from Krypton. Bret Ratner! The list goes on and on. SR wasn't perfect, I wasn't crazy about the kid either, Lois was miscast, maybe there should have been more action. But considering how awful it could have turned out, I still think it was a good reintroduction to the character. It also made over 200 million dollars in domestic box office alone, so it's hardly a bomb. It didn't make a profit when you consider the obscene amounts of money spent on all the false starts over the years, but I don't know if anything could have.
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He's a much more outlandish concept that requires some explanation to establish both himself and the "rules" of a world where he lives. McLain and even THMWNM were more or less realistic people in a realistic world. Superman is a fucking humanoid alien from a dead planet who was sent to earth as a baby and now puts on a flashy costume to save people when he's not working as a dorky reporter. People have to accept that and in order to accept that they have to understand it. I was shocked to find out how many didn't when Superman Returns was in theatres, which really hurt it's box office. Another interesting factoid about Superman Returns--most of the audience of the movie, which made over $200 million in the US alone, were over the age of 25. Those who didn't know Superman from the Reeve movies stayed away in droves and were left confused and bored.
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Get Darren Aronovsky or someone to direct, tell him you want it faithful to the classic character people love, make sure there's a big fight scene somewhere, then hand him $150 million or so and let him work. Problem solved.
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with all the Superman the movie fan wankery, idiot mad scientist Luthor and hundreds of thousands of Kryptonians flying around. I haded Supergirl enough, but now this shit... Completely ruins the pathos and symbolism of the Superman myth. I think a Superman movie must be (at least on some level) about saving Humanity from itself, so you're going to need a good Luthor, with some muscle thrown in (Metallo, Parasite, partnership with Brainiac) not some interchangble cliché alien overlord like Darkseid or Mongul.
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Just make a Superman movie. It doesn't have to be a sequel to the Chris Reeve films, or Bryan Singer's movie. We also don't NEED to see the origin again. We saw it in Superman. We saw it in Superman II. We saw it on Lois & Clark. We saw it on Smallville. IF they DID do a new origin, however, they could go in depth a little more and show some things that were left out.
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Lex Luthor NEEDS to be in the movie. He doesn't have to be the main villian but Lex IS Superman's archenemy. He needs to be included in some capacity. Lex could create Bizarro and the movie could focus on Superman fighting Bizarro. Lex could team up with Metallo or any number of other villians. The possibilities are endless.
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It baffles me why so many people are against a new origin story. The original superman movie barely scratched the surface as far as what can be done with a superman origin... so many people think they know what will make a great superhero movie, but I seriously doubt many actually read the source material. A new superman origin isn't necessary? all that can be done with it has already been done? DC Comics sure doesn't think so. There have been alot of new takes on the origin, and each one is better than the last. In fact, 'Birthright' is relatively new and was a better origin than any previous origin story by a mile. Infact, yet ANOTHER origin begins this week, and its going to kick serious ass because Geoff Johns is a comic god who turns EVERYTHING he touches in to pure gold. also, people are too (for lack of a better word) sentimental about the original superman movie. its OK but it didn't hold itself to a very high standard, while too many people hold the movie to a high standard.
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Deviant Apex said: "The only reason Batman Begins was successful as an origin story/remake is because they portrayed an area of Batmans origin that wasnt fleshed out previously."
EXACTLY MY FUCKIN POINT! How can you write this and not see how hypocritical this statement is!?!?! Everyone knew Batman's origin--rich family, alfred, parents died, wayne trains to fight crime and chooses the symbol of the bat blah blah blah. I'm sure TONS of you have no idea what you're talking about... think about it, how many times has the origin been in a movie? ONCE. Do you guys honestly think that the origin we have has done all that can be done with the origin? That there is no material that can 'portray an area of (superman's) origin that wasnt fleshed out previously'??? There are TONS of things that could be fleshed out.
And remember--there is ONE, count them, ONE movie origin. I want the new superman movies to tell the full tale, start to finish. I don't want my kid to have to watch an old, cheesy, outdated movie to see how the story of superman begins. I want a set of new superman movies on a shelf that tell the full story, although most likely that full story won't have an actual end, although it'd be damn cool if it did. -
Are you daft??? Are you dumb? Did i said we need an origins story for the sake of the morons? Did i ever said that? Are you reading defficient? where the fuck you pulled all your bullshit? Jesus fucking christ, you must be slow and with incredible low compreention of the writen word. And you dare calling others dumb? I bet you can't see the irony of that, can't you?I post again my reasons why there should be a reboot of superman, and why there is a real need to tell again Superman's origins, but it would be a waste of my time, and you wouldn't udnerstand, again. Becasue you are the very type of people that makes geeks so despised by the mainstream, the self-indulgent snobs who think just because they know soemthing, everybody has to, and if they don't they are morons. That self-indulgent bullshit is just silly. And next time, try to bother to understand what others are trying to say, instead of dumb emo knee-jerk reactions to things you did not understand. Get real, man!
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do you even know what self-indulgence is? No, obviously you do not, at least not the meaning. but you know to act on it perfectly. Get real, man!
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your definition of "pwned" is beyond pathetic? You think that lame ass stuff from Bicycle Sharer is enough to "pwned" me? fucking shit, you guys are pretty lame and terribly self-congralatory. A true textbook of self-indulgent bullshit. Thank goodness none of you are making movies, ebcause everyeach of them would be complete retard bulslhit, Michael Bay style. But i bet you love Michael Bay's bullshit and all into that type of retard idioticy. It shows. Get real, man!
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I think that Superman is still relevant today. In many ways, he's mre relevant now then he was, say, 10 to 15 years ago.The thing is, i think that Superman cannot be presented anymore in the more pure and simple ways that had been in the past. There is a need to put a bit more into the old boy scout. I can see seeds of that intention in parts of Christopher Reeves acting when he played both Kent and Supes. there were nuances to his acting that gave an hint to a more fully realised character then there was truly in the script. Ithink this is the time to put all that IN THE SCRIPT. Maybe because i'm not american, i cannot help but see Superman from a foreign perspective, and i mean that, for me, i can't help but notice that superman IS a foreigner on Earth. I think most americasn see him as a man who came from space. I see him as a space man who came to Earth. There's a difference there, adn i think that the later could be a springboard into a way to provide superman with a bit more character and pathos.I see superman as a someone who is trying to be the perfect emmigrant. He has assimilated the best values of his surrugated land which he lives now, and he tries to give it back by going the most good he can. But i think that, deep down, superman should always feel that though he does his best to be one of us, and to help us in each and every way, he is not truly one of us. I think that the alien aspect of Superman man should never be downplayed, but quite the contrary, it should be upplayed for inner drama effect. Also, i think that the personalities of superman and Clark Kent should not be easily deliniated, but one should pour into the other, specially at moments of distress or personal confusion.I think it's dead important that superman should still be a boy scout. He should be the guy who is always wanting to do the right thing. But he should not always be right, he should do miscalculations, he shouldn't have all the anwers, and he could get confused and uncertain. Not uncertain about his values, which are rock solid due to the good education provided by the Kents, but about how to aplie them to a world which is not as black and white as his values are. superman's greatest strenght, his values, should also be his greatest weakness that the villains would exploit.Do i propose a darker take on Superman? Maybe. But this is different times we are living, and even the pure heroes of old cannot be that pure and unbreachable anymore.Another thing,i would puit a lot of speed limits on Superman's powers. No longer that nonsense of him being able to lift whole islands or push the earth or travel back in time, and complete invulnerability (like surviving easily a nuclear blast, for instance). A Superman as literally a god is not something that interests me. a flawed Superman who can be taken down physically, but specially psycologically, that's far mroe interesting. Becasue, as someone once said, character is defined by the defeits you turn into victories, and not by always being victorious. Superman needs to be less victorious.
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"WE DON'T NEED ORIGIN STORY BECAUSE I'M A SELF INDULGENT ASS. Like, dude, like, i'm so totally li0ke a self-indulgent ass geek that nobody takes seriously! so, my revenge is to call ignorant morons to like all the people who don«'t know superman's origins, and not jsut any origin, but my onyl prefered favorite origin. And all those whodon't agree are FUCKING ASSHOLES!!!! i'M SO THE AWESOME because i know an origjn story and everybody has to know too, if not they are MORONS!!!!! We don't need superman origin story!!! Only fags do!!!! ARGHH AAARGGHH, MY BRAIN HURTS!!!! NEED MORE SELF-INDULGENT SHIT!!! Jar Jar Abrams RULEZ!!!"Thus a self-indulgent geek who supports a no-origin story for a new superman movie. Reasons for their ideas? Who need reasons when you have self-indulgence?
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I really hope somebody dig out Jar Jar Abrams' Superman script. Becasue that shit was one of the worst cases of self-indulgent geekass bulslhit i ever had the displeasure to know it's existence. and i hope they mke a movie out of it. And then, even the no-origins geeks will relaise that Brian singer did an OK job with his Superman movie, and that maybe, maybe, there really is a need for a well toldOrigin Story for Superman that doesn't reads like a cliff notes from some self-indulgent geek who can't be bothered with anything else about Superman but fights with coloured clowns with superpowers.
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Aug 17, 2009 7:48:03 AM CDT
Why are there people here hoping to see an origin story?
by themanwhocan
When the article is about how they CANT use the origin story cos some judge just said so.The augument is moot at this stage as they cant do a krypton origin even if they want to now ,right?
that said i would love to see a big screen superman story focusing on Jor-El fighting the Krypton government over the imminent distruction of the planet and getting fucked over and over until eventually kicking some ass and saving at least one city (kandor) and his son. This would give superman an overall mission to find his people as an adult the way his father wanted. meanwhile he has to contest with Luthor and other baddies getting in his way , distracting him from his mission.
just an idea! -
After Superman Returns even those two couldn't fuck it up worse
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After Superman Returns even those two couldn't fuck it up worse
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first, whoever said superman is better suited for movies and tv than comics has no clue what they are talking about. Specifically the last two years of the superman comics have been practically an opus that no movie could ever do justice to. And what about having a superhero movie where the superhero narrates? Its done in virtually every comic but no movie has had the balls to put us inside the head of a superhero. That could reinvigorate the superman movies by hearing what is going on in superman's head... it woudl give us a new perspective.
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Well, Watchmen had Dr. Manhattan and Rorschach both narrating portions of the movie, but I know what you mean. However, I think the over-reliance on retaining much of the comic's dialogue ultimately crippled WATCHMEN as a movie. If your writing, acting, directing and cinematography is good enough, you don't NEED your characters constantly droning on about what should be made obvious by the onscreen images. Quoth the Robot Devil: "You can't just have your characters announce how they feel. That makes me feel angry!"
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That's why a lot of people don't want to see a Super Man origin story. We've become habituated to the formula: First movie establishes the character, and the audience has to grow with them, watch him/her fumble and stumble before they become the character we already know. Then the next movie is where we "the real stuff". I think this is a direct result of the fact that all these movies are retreads of prior existing material. If it were characters we were unfamiliar with, this wouldn't be an issue. We've seen Super Man's origin done beautifully in Super Man The Movie back in 78. Not to mention that Super Man's origin has been gone over in painstaking detail over the last several years of Smallville (of which I've watched maybe 3 episodes. I just don't think it's that great).
As to Assimov's response to my previous post, I have to disagree with you. Superman The movie spends at least 20 minutes on Krypton. Anymore than that is a bit much to me. It's Super Man, not the Chronicles of Krypton. Moreover, while Super Man is an alien, keep in mind that he was raised practically from birth by Human parents (on Earth) in midwestern America. In terms of what constitutes societal norms, cultural beliefs, native language, etc. he got all that from ma and pa Kent, not Jor-El and Lara. Super Man is in many ways a failed Christ symbol (a fact which I am not the first to bring up, I know). Siegel and Shuster admitted to deriving Supes' origin from that of Moses. But Moses' origin is very similar to Christ's. You could almost sum up Super Man's origin with John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" Same thing basically, minus the eternal life business. And in many ways Super Man's journey and purpose are simialr to Christ, except he demonstrates some human frailties, like romantic love, etc that make him a little more like us. Bryan Singer leaned on this metaphor a little too much at certain points in Super Man Returns IMO. My point in sying all this is that Super Man feeling alienated from everyone isn't really what the character is about (maybe in his teen years when he finds out the truth of his background but not in his adulthood). It's about a would-be savior trying his best to make things right without overtly interferring in human affairs; in short living as an example for others to aspire to.
Bat Man does this as well, but in a much different way, which is why the two characters are such a natural pairing, similar yet different and all that business. Supes isn't a boy scout per say, but he does try to live to a higher standard. And I think that type of character is still very relevant in this day and age. -
How does one separate paragraphs on these posts? Cause evidently hitting the return key isn't enough. Or maybe I'm just a moron (quite possible).
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Just because DC has to pay Siegel's descendents for a few aspects of the origin doesn't mean it can't do an origin movie. As pointed out earlier in this thread, WB/DC would be retarded not to cut a deal with the Siegels for use of this stuff and the Siegels would be retarded not to go for it. Superman without the classic origin that entrenched him into the public consciousness for 70+ years is a worthless character and Superman's origin is worthless without Superman. It's not like the Siegels can lease Superman's origin to Marvel so they can give it to another character, or that DC can suddenly retcon all their back catalogue that makes reference to Krypton. The practical implication of this ruling is that DC is forced to pay the Siegels licensing on Superman's origin until it becomes public domain or they buy it outright. That's all.
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Aug 18, 2009 12:38:40 AM CDT
OK, we might be bored by the origin, but people need it.
by jsarnold513
It doesn't have to be the focus of the whole movie, but Superman needs to be reintroduced into the public consciousness so that people know who the hell he is and can relate to/care about him while cheering him on. Singer made the assumption that everyone knew who Superman was already, and even hedged his bet by briefly recapping it near the beginning, but audiences were STILL confused because THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THEY'D SEEN A SUPERMAN STORY! Especially the kids who should be Superman's biggest fans. Singer also deserves credit for trying to present a more complex take on the character than "the big blue boyscout" but unfortunately the script for his movie was awkward and unsatisfying despite several scenes of real brilliance and power. A great Superman movie is 1 part epic fantasy, 1 part space opera, 1 part action, 1 part humor, 1 part romance... with maybe a fight scene involving a giant gorilla at some point. The tone is the hard part to get right: Superman needs to be a paragon of virtue who does amazing, even campily surreal, things but there also needs to be some real emotional honesty there to hook modern audiences. On top of that, it should be at least sorta "kid friendly" at the same time. Superman is one of our greatest cultural icons and he needs to be treated with the love and respect he deserves.
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so now Superman will have to run around with his super dong flapping around
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