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Rob Zombie And Mr. Beaks Talk HALLOWEEN II!
With the HALLOWEEN II junket just around the corner (and the film due out on August 28th), I figured now would be an opportune time to hit you with this interview I conducted with writer-director Rob Zombie at Comic Con. I still hadn't seen the film when I chatted with Zombie, so most of these questions are directed at figuring out the tone of Zombie's sequel to his love-it-or-loathe-it 2007 remake. Generally, I'm not a fan of pre-screening interviews, but every time I post a HALLOWEEN story, the talk backs get very long and very contentious, so I figured it was only fair to get Zombie on the record talking about the direction he's going in with this sequel - which will have nothing to do with the 1981 Rick Rosenthal-directed "More of the Night He Came Home" opus.
This was the first time I'd ever sat down with Zombie, and I found him to be a candid, completely laid-back dude. He's pretty forthcoming on what he thinks didn't work about his first HALLOWEEN, and why he's confident this movie will be more reflective of his demented sensibility. Though I definitely had problems with the last film, I have to say that he's sold me on the sequel. The guy's got talent. I'm more than willing to give him a second chance.
Mr. Beaks: You've said that this is 100% your film. Do you feel like you no longer have to honor the tradition and the archetypes of the HALLOWEEN series?
Rob Zombie: I mean, I had absolute freedom on the first film. It wasn't like anyone was saying, "Oh, you have to keep this, or you have to keep that." The only person who was thinking that was me. It's really funny, because no one was even that concerned whether I kept Michael Myers's mask. I was like, "We've got to keep the mask! Without the mask, it's not HALLOWEEN. It's just some dude." And within that, I don't know if I could ever find that balance. Remakes are tough. You're almost always in a no-win situation, unless you're remaking a film that's so bad or one that no one's ever heard of. I love [John Carpenter's] HALLOWEEN as a movie. They'd be like, "Well, who could be Dr. Loomis besides Donald Pleasence?" And I'd be like, "I don't fucking know, because I can't see it any other way either!" Or "Who could be Laurie Strode?" But then as time goes on, you start thinking outside the box. And I had to stop watching HALLOWEEN because it was only fucking me up more.
So on the second one, I was like, "Okay. No one mentions HALLOWEEN. No one mentions John Carpenter. We don't look at anything. Let's just go crazy in a certain direction." And what's kind of funny with HALLOWEEN for you or me is that you can't fathom if someone hasn't seen it. But it's incredible how many people haven't seen the movie. Like Malcolm McDowell. And half the actors that were showing up. So it was good. They couldn't reference anything in their minds.
Beaks: And you're also getting away from Carpenter's score in this film?
Zombie: Yeah. In the first film, it made sense. But it's funny: we've put it in and out of this film at times. And this film has just so much become its own thing that it almost seems to take you out of the movie. We thought, "Oh, we'll put it in in this one section, and the fans will love it!" But it was actually very distracting. You get caught up in the vibe of what the film actually is, and when you hear that score, it's just kind of like, "Oh, yeah. Here we are again." It's weird. It just didn't work.
Beaks: Well, it has a strong association not just to the first film, but also to all the sequels. So if you're trying to change course, it makes sense to lose it.
Zombie: It's hard to make people see something differently and then throw that music in there. No matter what you're watching, it makes it feel like you've seen it before. On the first film, it was fine - like when Michael discovers the mask. But in this one it just never made sense.
Beaks: In reading about what you've done with the narrative, it sounds like Loomis has become something of an antagonist: he's very full of himself, and pimping his book on talk shows. I'm wondering if Michael has become the protagonist of this film.
Zombie: I was trying to think of it realistically. Like "If the first film was real, what would happen?" And I kind of thought of it like "If Michael Myers was famous, he'd be like Charles Manson." Thus making Dr. Loomis Vincent Bugliosi. Loomis would be a superstar; he'd be a little guy who started as a child psychiatrist turned into Dr. Phil. (Laughs) Meanwhile, people who were affected by all of these events, who are trying to pick up the pieces of their crappy lives... and this guy's out there milking it for all it's worth. It seemed kind of like a realistic journey to go on, even though you see it's eating away at him. It's not just like, "Oh, I'm an asshole, and this is what I do."
I thought all of the characters would be damaged, and they would respond in different ways. Everybody knows people in their lives, or themselves, who've had horrible events happen to them, and they change you in certain ways: some people become really introverted, and some people will just go, "Fuck it! I don't care anymore! I'm going out partying every night, and I don't give a shit if I live." That's what I felt Laurie Strode would become. She'd become really outgoing, whereas the Annie Brackett character, who was more outgoing, would become more agoraphobic and introverted. The event fucks them up in different ways.
Beaks: You've kept the hospital setting, at least for a portion of the film. Was that a conscious nod to the second HALLOWEEN, or just out of necessity?
Zombie: It's a very small thing at the beginning of the movie. And it was just... I always think it's kind of cool when sequels pick up like it's the next second. That's what I wanted to do: pick up like it just immediately happened. And, obviously, [Laurie] was pretty fucked up, so she'd have to go to the hospital. Maybe the trailer makes you think, "Oh, the whole movie's in a hospital!" But that's just a brief thing.
Beaks: The nice thing is that no one's going to be upset when you don't follow HALLOWEEN II beat-for-beat.
Zombie: I don't think they'll be upset.
Beaks: Well, I was watching the preview for the A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET remake yesterday, and while it looks like Samuel Bayer has shot the hell out of it, I'm just seeing every beat from the original film. Nothing could bore me more than going to see a movie like that. And I'll be honest: I had those same problems with your first HALLOWEEN.
Zombie: The biggest problem I had with the first HALLOWEEN myself is that I conceived it as two movies, and I pitched it that way. The first movie would be young Michael, leading up to him escaping Smith's Grove, coming back to Haddonfield, and then the movie would end. And then the second movie would be whatever. So it's sort of like two movies got shoved into one. It got awkward. You really sunk into the first part of the film, but the second part was just, like, a race to the end. And that wasn't the way I'd conceived it. Whereas this film... I love this movie so much more.
Beaks: One thing that made me happy was reading the soundtrack list. It's pretty varied. "The Things We Do for Love" by 10cc wedged in there next to Bad Brains. Were these songs you knew you wanted to use, or did they occur to you further down the line.
Zombie: Some of them were songs I'd always wanted to use. Having songs in advance in your mind helps a lot. Like on THE DEVIL'S REJECTS, it helped a lot. It was nice to be able to find the spirt of the movie - and the spirit of REJECTS became The Allman Brothers, Terry Reid and, obviously, Lynyrd Skynyrd. It really helped set the tone. Whereas with HALLOWEEN... not so much. There wasn't much outside of the Carpenter music that was meaningful. But on this one, there are certain songs that are: "Nights in White Satin" is one. I knew I was using that in advance, and shot it with the song already in the movie. It makes a big difference.
Beaks: Did you time the scene out in your head?
Zombie: Yeah, you just kind of write the scene knowing that's what's going to be playing. And it makes it that you can really conceive it, as opposed to saying, "Oh, we know some music will be playing there." I don't know if people can tell the difference, but it helps me when I'm shooting.
Beaks: Did you play music on set?
Zombie: Well, there's this scene where the girls go to this "Phantom Jam". It's a concert, and I didn't want to have something where there's a band playing, and all of the people are listening on headphones pretending to move to music. You always see that in movies, and you're like, "Why is no one moving in time to the music?" It always looks really fake. So we decided to have a real concert and film it. It's kind of like a Robert Altman movie, where you can kind of hear the dialogue overlapping, and the music's blaring. But when you watch it, you go, "Wow! It looks like they snuck these actresses into an actual concert." It's so much more alive that way.
Beaks: I love that you're referencing Robert Altman in making a horror film. From hearing you talk before, I know you've got a really well-rounded sense of film history, and that you can bring this knowledge into your movies. It's not about trying to top what other horror filmmakers are making.
Zombie: I don't even know what other horror filmmakers are making. I don't really watch horror movies that much. It's not really my thing, in a strange way. People are always like, "You got Brad Dourif because he was Chucky, right?" And I'll be like, "Oh, right, he is Chucky. I forgot about that. No, I got him because I like GATES OF HEAVEN." It's never really what it seems. I mean, I like horror movies, obviously, but it's older. When the '80s hit, and everything became a "slasher" movie, I kind of zoned out. That's really not my thing.
Beaks: But don't your fans, who've been with you since White Zombie, expect you to be making horror films? Are you trying to break out of that?
Zombie: I'm always trying to break out of that in a certain sense. To me, THE DEVIL'S REJECTS isn't really a horror movie. I mean, it's horrific, but, to me, it's a western. It's three outlaws on the run from a sheriff. It's like a '70s road movie. That's the type of stuff I like. I mean, I like horror movies, but I also like all kinds of stuff. What I do like is dark, violent material.
Beaks: It's more aesthetic-based then genre-based?
Zombie: Yeah. It could be TAXI DRIVER, it could be HARDCORE, it could be RABID DOGS, it could be THE WILD BUNCH. I like dark, fucked-up material. And sometimes horror movies don't even feel that way; they don't feel dark and disgusting, but kind of light and funny.
Beaks: But in your films, the disturbing elements are sometimes leavened by humor. And some of the people you've cast in your films... they're familiar. We like them, and we enjoy their company.
Zombie: I like casting every role with someone who's an interesting character actor because that's what I remember as a kid. You'd watch movies, and you'd notice these people popping up in other stuff. You'd notice, like, Geoffrey Lewis or Bruce Dern or... whatever. I love that. Like in [HALLOWEEN II], Margot Kidder comes in and does only one scene, but it's worth having Margot Kidder as opposed to someone who'd just be working for scale. I always want to try to find someone who'll make it interesting.
Beaks: But aren't you worried that when she comes in, we'll go, "Oh, my god, that's Margot Kidder!"?
Zombie: I think that can happen, but it only happens... to film fans. The average person is not going, "Oh, my god, it's Udo Kier!" If you write for Ain't It Cool News, you are because you know all those people. But the average person isn't going, "That's so obviously Malcolm McDowell." For us, we see every little thing. But most people aren't seeing all these obscure things.
Beaks: I guess we sometimes forget that movies can work on a completely different level for people who aren't walking film encyclopedias.
Zombie: And that's the thing. What can you do? You'd have to find all unknowns - which is fine, too. But people don't go "Oh, that's Clint Howard!" They go, "Um, is that Billy Bob Thornton?"
Beaks: Really?
Zombie: People get Clint Howard and Billy Bob Thornton confused for some reason.
Beaks: (Laughs) I'd like to see Clint Howard in big Hollywood movies as much as I see Billy Bob Thornton.
Zombie: Clint's awesome. I love Clint.
Beaks: Betsy Rue is in [HALLOWEEN II].
Zombie: Yeah.
Beaks: She's someone who really popped out for me this year. Talk about a fearless actress: her [very extended] scene in MY BLOODY VALENTINE 3-D... I couldn't stop talking about it once I walked out of the theater.
Zombie: Some people just don't care. They just don't care.
Beaks: And she's that kind of type?
Zombie: I guess. She only worked for one day, so I didn't get to know her very well. But she seemed super cool. There's this scene that happens at the Rabbit in Red club, and we had an actress who had to be naked through the whole scene. And she just sat out naked the whole day. She just didn't care! It's funny.
Beaks: So where are you with your various other projects?
Zombie: EL SUPERBEASTO comes out September 22nd. That's done. That's coming out. I have a record that's finished, so I'm going to hit the road in October. And once that's all wrapped up, the goal is to go back and get TYRANNOSAURUS REX going. That's what I was going to do before HALLOWEEN II came up.
Beaks: Yeah, you had to rush right into HALLOWEEN II.
Zombie: It was insane.
Beaks: Was that preferable in any way?
Zombie: Movies are weird, and I can't explain it. For some reason, sometimes things just really work, and sometimes they just really don't work. THE DEVIL'S REJECTS was a film where everything just worked: everyone got along great, and it was just an incredible experience. HALLOWEEN was miserable. Every day was a problem, everything was fucked up, people who usually love each other fucking hated each other... and it was one of those movies where we grinded to the end of the schedule. And you're like, "Why was this such a bad experience?" HALLOWEEN II was just like DEVIL'S REJECTS. Probably every director says that you can't figure out why sometimes it just connects and everything seems to go perfectly. But for some reason, the creative team was totally in sync. And for some reason on HALLOWEEN, the creative team was just totally out of sync the whole fucking time. That's why, even when the movie was number one, I was so depressed. Because creatively, I didn't feel like it ever... you just want the thing to be right, and something was wrong the whole time to me.
Beaks: What do you think about the fans who didn't like the first HALLOWEEN. Do you think they'll like this one?
Zombie: I don't know why anyone does or doesn't like anything. There was a funny thing with HALLOWEEN, too, that I think was sort of an internet-created dislike for the film. Because so many people come up to me and they go, "I finally got around to seeing it, man, and I fucking loved it! People told me I'd hate it!" And I think also, because it was a remake of HALLOWEEN. If you read reviews, you'll find people who are like, "I fucking hated that movie when I saw it. But now that I went back and watched it again, it's pretty rad, actually."
Beaks: Even Roger Ebert's had to do that a few times.
Zombie: I've done that, too. I've gone to the movies and seen movies and hated them. Then I'll see it on HBO and go, "What the fuck was I thinking? That movie was awesome!" I just wasn't in the mood to watch it that day. Whatever. I can't figure out what people like and don't like. It's impossible. That's all you can really do, right?
Beaks: That'll keep you from creative paralysis.
Zombie: It'll keep you from losing your mind.
HALLOWEEN II opens nationwide on August 28th.
Faithfully submitted,
Mr. Beaks
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Yeah!!
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is a modern horror classic. wasn't too crazy about the halloween remake though.
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It took a few viewings to get into HALLOWEEN. I really like it now. This one looks like good fun or some fucking thing.
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So that horror DVD library he showed off on cribs contained 6 thousand copies of While You Were Sleeping cleverly disguised as Fulci zombie films?
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So that horror DVD library he showed off on cribs contained 6 thousand copies of While You Were Sleeping cleverly disguised as Fulci zombie films?
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So glad Mr. Straker said fuck it and just did his own thing this time. Some of the OS fans are douche bags. They are still talking shit and they don't even have a film to judge yet. It's going to be so different from any other Halloween and most of those fans that will still have issues with it will have those issues not because it's a bad film, but because it's not a carbon reusing of the characters or style. I say fuck em. Excluding part 3, There's 8 films in the series with that shit in it. Time for a change, all remakes should adopt this. They used to, but it's much easier to retool the original story. It takes real intelligence to turn it into something no ones seen before but somehow belongs in that universe. Best wishes all around. I'm so tired of the people talking shit about Rob and Sheri.
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Read the goddamn interview! His collection stops somewhere near the early 80's. and is mainly devoid of slasher flicks and all of this modern crap.
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Aug 14, 2009 4:14:47 AM CDT
At least put the original theme music during Dimension logo.
by gibsonusa returns
Like the very VERY beginning of the movie...then it can go into the new vibe...
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It's his Halloween. Not John's. Cronenberg's Fly didn't pander to the original. Johns The Thing was it's own film in contrast to The Thing From Another World. No one busted their balls for trying to be different.
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It just wouldn't seem right without that iconic theme. But I am quite excited to see this movie.
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IMO thats the most important thing with these remakes. Like all these horror movies are being remade...and it seems like for every single one of them, the promoters rant and rave about all these new creative kills and innovation and shit.
But then you watch the movie...and even though it may be pretty good, the kills are usually kind of run-of-the-mill. Thats always the disappointing part imo. I think before making a horror movie, they need to get a bunch of guys, horror fans, college kids, and a huge chalkboard and just brainstorm kills for a week straight. Cause imo thats always the disappointing part. -
I am totally psyched to see this! Having met Zombie once backstage (after a concert on Halloween of all things) I can attest to him being pretty laid back. Devil's Rejects is one of my favorite movies and I think his style grew leaps and bounds in between House of 1,000 Corpses and Rejects. Here's hoping the same is true for his Halloween series.
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Halloween doesn't survive on the kills. You are thinking about Jason. Yeah part 2 picked up that flag and it got rafuckingdickulos by 4, but the original wasn't about the creative nature of the kill. It was about the dread of it happening. Alfred Hitchocks Theory of the Bomb with a timer under the chair in a train with the camera cutting back and forth to the bombs clock and the people in the train going about their lives unaware of the impending doom. I'm sure Halloween 2 will have creative deaths, but the creative death mantle was not it draw. The strong characters and dread drew you in. Everyone understand the Jaws theme cries, but again. This isn't John Halloween. So get over it. If he reuses the music all he's doing is jerking the fans off and being lazy. He almost nicked it from the first remake, but he caved in for the fans. No more. Let's see how it works. Begins didn't reuse the 89 score. 89 batman didn't reuse the TV show score. Homages, cameos, and rescenes in these remakes needs to end.
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Placating yourself and tell us, you are sorry for that abortion, but I got it right this time..doesn't give me back the 2 hours and $12 I wasted, or get me to give you $12 again.
Stick to music. -
Read the interview! He says he got bored by it in the 80's when everybody made slasher movies. (And I can understand him. Similar stuff happened to me in the 90's.)
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"Myers would be Charles Manson"... Yeah. That's exactly the same personality, psychology and mental problems those two have. Manson and Myers, twins. Damn moron.
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My friend and I grew up watching horror movies. Perhaps like Zombie, we kind of zoned out after a while. Like for the Hills Have Eyes 2 (remake edition), we were in the theater with our chins leaning on our palms and successfully called out virtually all the fake scares in the movie. Its like...cause we grew up with it...so its like...run-of-the-mill.
For Zombie's H1, the palm came off the chin for when that little kid character got beat to a pulp, and when the adult guy was tied up and sliced by young Myers...but it was more of a discomfort than scary...for us it was more "ew!" than "ah!"...
It was still a pretty kickass movie overall, and I hope H2 has more "ah's!" than "ew's!" -
Loomis becomes Courtney Cox in Scream 2? Pimping her book? Mmmhmmmm.
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Then again, his last two albums/Cds sucked. I'll skip H2 and hopefully T-Rex will be his breakout film.
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Aug 14, 2009 5:57:19 AM CDT
Sorry, Rob, your HALLOWEEN fucking sucked donkey dick
by zombieheathledger
But like Stalkeye said, I love your music.
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He doesn't say Michael Myers has the same personality and psychology as Charles Manson. He just wants to illustrate how Myers is looked upon by society. I.o.w. becoming a 'famous' person. Loomis will become a famous person, just for being his therapist many years ago...
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Audiance. He's totally unfiltered. He will use whatever it takes to get it, and he always manages to pull one of those moments off in every one of his films. One example is that long ass pause before Otis shoots that cop in House of 1000 Corpses.
What most of the original Halloween fans hated about the remake was the strong language and the disfunctional family setting. The argument is that you can watch the original with the family, but you can't do that with the remake, because it's too disturbing and offensive. The original Last House On The Left isn't Family Friendly. It doesn't mean it's not a good film, but that's the fans biggest issue with the remake. Me I like it more and more as time passes on. Ronnie's dialog is priceless.
"Bitch, I will crawl over there and I will skull fuck the shit out of you!
Waaa! Waaaaa! That's all that fucker ever does is cry. Waaa! Waaa! Cry and shit, cry and shit.
Bitch, If you don't think I aint making a mental list of all your fuckin' bullshit!
Give me a fucking break. He's probably a queer. He's gonna grow up, end up cutting his dick and balls off and changing his name to Michelle.
And this is one of my favorite Ronnie scenes
Ronnie: Hey Clown (pause) Hey (pause) Hahaha, Psycho boy, Cat killer. Did you really torture and kill all them worthless animals, boy? Hahaha. Make you feel like a real badass mutherfucker killer huh... That is some deep ass, serious faggoty ass shit.
Michael: Judith I'm gonna be late..
Ronnie: (Mocking Michael) Jewwwdithhh I'm gonna be layteeeeee.
I think it speasks well about rob ability to capture a powerful moment that will unsettle even the ardent vieiwer of unplesent
I thinks it's aged well for me. I mean willaim forsyth man. All of his lines are comedy gold. "Don't think I'm not making a mental -
Halloween remake, Friday the 13th remake, Haunting in Connecticut, The Unborn, Hills have eyes 1+2 remake – all have one thing in common. Not scary! No ‘horror’ – gore. . . .sure. . .but no genuine horror or menace! Yes, these films obviously are making money, but god they’re boring. . . . I don’t hold out much hope for the Freddie remake either. . . .
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I was trying to noodle out a way to explain the logic behind the hate some people seem to have for the first remake. Rob has a talent for shock. His early music incorporated shock values. Much like Alice Cooper. Why is everyone so put off about him doing the same damn thing in his films. Haters call it White Trash. Really it's just shock value, at any cost. If the character where all black what would it be called then. Call it trash all you like. It's just disturbing shit without the need for blood gut to get a rise out of you, and for some people that's too much.
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Aug 14, 2009 6:52:57 AM CDT
Yeah - we're all wrong and will love it if we just watch it agai
by juansanchez
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Accept it.
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Shame you didn't ask him about that, Beaks. If Machete can be made, this HAS TO BE made.
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Aug 14, 2009 7:15:54 AM CDT
Please, Zombie's Halloween was absolute ass.
by the gospel according to bastardface
It wasn't just one of the worst remakes I've ever seen in my life, it was one of the worst movies. Period. Nothing anyone can say to spin it will change that fact. Zombie's Halloween was a fucking desecration to original, and a travesty against cinema.
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He nailed it...a lot of the hate for the first Halloween was generated from the internet. Sure, it wasn't very good...but the worst remake ever? Give me a fucking break..apparently no one saw The Omen or The Fog remakes. Halloween doesn't come close to the abyss-like level of those movies. Rob is pretty open in this interview about all the things that didn't work...good for him. That takes balls....and Rob at least has balls.
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Aug 14, 2009 7:55:21 AM CDT
He made the mistake of keeping the stupid-ass sister plot
by indycollector
Why?!!!!!!!! And he's not using the iconic music? WTF?
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Some of you people are truly delusional. You crap all over Zombie’s Halloween and every complaint is a comparison to the original. Need I remind you it’s called Rob Zombie’s Halloween? Zombie’s Halloween is far and away better than 99% of the Horror remakes done since 2000 and without question is the 2nd best movie of the entire Halloween series. For those who hated DR’s, I don’t even know what to say besides go rent Notting Hill again
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He misses the point.
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I saw this movie called SONNY BOY made in the 80s. Brad Dourif, one of the Carridines, etc. It looked and felt like a Rob Zombie film and i think if Rob was going to remake a movie that should be the movie he remakes
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Going into Myers as a boy was a bad move imo. I dont want to see his history explained, see that awww he was an abused kid. And to think that could have been a whole movie, jesus. Then when we get to see The Shape, he has become a WWE Wrestler! Why not remix the soundtrack, make it more electronic distorted. One of the best soundtracks I heard in a long while was for the film Inside. Now that's what I call a slasher.It seems to me that after 1000 Corpses (a film I really liked btw) his idea of cinematic style was copying Tarantino, and with Halloween he didnt have the talent to do anything different.
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...is that the vast majority of the people who hated this film use the same twisted sense of "logic" most haters of anything use: "It wasn't my cup of tea, therefore it HAS to be utter shit and Rob Zombie HAS to be a shit human being". No. Here's how it works, children: Just because YOU don't like something doesn't make it worthless. Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean it doesn't have value for someone else. Ever hear the tired old phrase "opinions are like assholes..."? Point being, your opinion is just that. Your opinion does not translate into universal truth for all, nor does it make you a superior being of impeccable taste. Please do consider growing the fuck up and acquiring some perspective someday.
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Does he mean Heavens Gate?? -
I don't understand why dumb geeks spread the starfish for Zombie after a little name-dropping every time. The man has no talent and is raping the Halloween franchise more than even Joe Chappelle, who at least went on to do "The Wire"
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Beaks, we both fucking know that scene will not even come close to approximating Altman. SLURP SLURP
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I found it pretty interesting to have him talk about the spilt in the first film with the second half being a race to the end – at the very least it’s nice to see some level of self awareness. The first half of Zombie’s Halloween is pretty interesting, the 2nd half is a complete mess. Still, the Zombie version of Halloween was much better than almost all of the crappy sequels and more interesting to watch – it certainly had better visuals. Halloween is a masterpiece, Halloween II is still pretty good, Halloween III, a guilty pleasure (a very goofy film but I still love the ending and the Silver Shamrock commercial). Halloween 4, fairly decent, but the ending is pretty dumb. Halloween 5, things begin to go off the rails with the introduction of the druidic nonsense and the unresolved man in black (not Johnny Cash) bullshit. Halloween 6, among the worst films ever made, utterly moronic – funny to see Paul Rudd in it though – poor Donald Pleasance looks like the walking dead in that film. H20, starts off promising with an okay opening sequence (the same nurse, the music, etc.) and the rest stop scene has a brief bit of tension, but then when they get to the school the film gets really bad, it becomes a movie you want to like but in reality is really flat, too Scream-esque and for whatever reason they screw up the mask big time (the scene where Myers looks through the door window is laugh out loud bad, the mask looks like a mass produced five dollar bad imitation of the original). The ending duel with Jamie Lee Curtis has zero real tension, and LL Cool J’s attempt at adding some humor is unnecessary and annoying. Halloween Resurrection has an interesting opening three minutes, but the way in which they kill off Laurie is inexcusable (she needs to make sure the guy who has just tried to kill her is the right one? Fuck that, I’d take my chances and drop the bastard – if it turns out to be some other guy who happened to be running around the mental hospital at night wearing the exact same mask, well, I believe that would hold up just fine in court). The rest of the movie is God-awful, featuring the single worst sequence in the entire series (and that’s saying something) with the epic fistfight between Myers and Bust Rhymes. I actually figured that would have finally killed off the series, but then along came Zombie (and his entertaining first half, which again as better than much of what I just outlined above). Anybody who thinks Halloween has any kind of a legacy worth protecting should go talk to the Akkad’s, they’re laughing their ass off all of the way to the bank. Personally, I’m interested to see what Zombie does without being constrained by the mythology of the original, it can’t be much worse than the last fifteen years. This concludes a history of the Halloween franchise, please have your term papers into me by next Wednesday.
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Aug 14, 2009 9:58:39 AM CDT
***When the '80s hit, and everything became a "slasher" movie***
by mayorofsmpleton
That's why my remake feels like a lost Friday the 13th Sequel...
Seriously, his Halloween films are like A. B. and C. exactly how those crappy 80's slashers played out. If early reports of H2 are any indication he's gonna pull the same "twist" we've seen half a dozen times in modern horror. He's such a double talker.
Here's hoping the movie doesn't suck. I thought H1 was just okay, and I'm reserving judgment until I see this one, but man does he know how to talk out his ass. -
Was bored the entire time. Just didn't get the point and was totally put off by the total unlikeability of every character. Wasn't scary, just mostly unpleasant to watch.
However, I'm holding out hope for H2 if it really deviates and becomes it's own thing. I absolutely love "The Devil's Rejects" and enjoyed "House of 1000 Corpses". I like Zombie's candor and view towards these movies. Especially calling "Rejects" a road movie western which it most certainly is. -
After recently seeing the remake I’m undecided if it is just a really bad film or a bad film with chunks of semi-brilliant satire. The characters are so one-note generic it’s like they actually pulled the film straight out of the 80’s and dropped it into 2009. I thought after establishing the lead rich guy as a total dick they might pull the ol’ switcheroo and have him suddenly become the protagonist, but nope they charged straight ahead as if it was one of the original low budget sequels. Asshole rich guy, check! Token black guy, check! Token Asian guy, check! Slightly rebellious motorcycle riding everyman hero, check! Topless beach activity, check! Quite funny actually, I can almost give them credit for it, but I know it was accidental.
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If there's anything I don't like about Rob, it's his penchant for making broad-brush statements. For example, just off the top of my head: "The Howling", "Re-Animator", "The Thing", "Creepshow", "Day of the Dead", "An American Werewolf in London", "The Lost Boys", "Evil Dead", "Near Dark", "Pumpkinhead", "Fright Night", "Hellraiser", "Return of the Living Dead", "Street Trash", "The Fly", "Poltergeist". Any slasher films there?
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I think it was meant as a general statement. Do you need me to list all the crap horror movies that came out during the same timeframe?
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Some of us appreciate a deft, subtle hand in storytelling. Horror is most effectively communicated through the impartation of horrific ideas, rather than the impulsive sensory overload that Zombie trades in. Once you make a vicarious traumatic experience explicit, the mind can process it, analyze it, and compartmentalize it — which is why people laugh during slasher flicks.
Judicious use of horrifying imagery and emphasis on a sense of dread is what made the original film memorable. It's also why Hitchcock's classic films are still studied today, and why "A Clockwork Orange" is more disturbing than any of the ludicrous films Zombie has made to date.
Zombie prefers to rub our noses in the filth, sweat, and gore. That *can* be a valid approach to storytelling, but when handled clumsily (i.e., when dialogue, characters, and imagery are always cranked up to 11), the overkill simply caricatures itself and creates distance between the audience and the film.
Finally, Zombie is more interested in his killers than the victims, but he doesn't seem to understand how to make that dynamic work. Jonathan Demme gets away with taking us into Hannibal Lecter's world because even without the murder and cannibalism, Lecter is a fascinating character. Zombie's greasy, inarticulate, violent mouth-breathers don't have that quality, they're simply repulsive. Without the promise of bloodshed, nobody would want to spend ten minutes with them.
Zombie seems like a promising filmmaker, but he's not a very good writer. Perhaps he'll improve. Until then, there's nothing "wrong" with the rest of us. -
Still doesn't make sense, given that every decade has more than its share of crap horror movies. The '80s are far from unique in this regard.
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I am new to this website, and I know how people feel about the Rob Zombie remake of Halloween. My thoughts are, I really enjoyed the first half of the film, I thought if the movie was a 3 hour film I would have enjoyed it a lot more, I feel as if he rushed "that stalking , moment to moment" aspect of Halloween Night, when he comes home. I think had he caputered the stalking and watching aspect a little more and slowed Halloween night a little, It could have been a great film.
Again I know you all dislike this remake and I will prob get lots of hate replies. However, I think he will blow the audience away with this second film ...
Its a prediction coming from someone who doesnt know much about films but I know EVERYTHING and I MEAN EVERYTHING about the Halloween Franchise.
I say dont brush it under the table yet and give it a chance. I thought the interview was pretty solid.
Thats all.
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While I appreciate the effort in your post, a great deal of what you stated is based soley on your taste, which of course is fine.
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Again, it was a general statement and I think that 80's horror is a little unique. To try and make my point, when someone comments to you about something being like 80's horror, do you know exactly what they are talking about? Be honest.
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I didn't like Halloween (Zombie's version), but it certainly wasn't terrible. If anything, it felt too generic to me. I feel Zombie has a lot of talent - for me, Devil's Rejects was a great film in every aspect. I'm hoping since everything clicked together for Halloween 2 it'll be a good film. Isn't it opening again Final Destination 3D, though? I want to see that, too (I though Ellis' Final Destination 2 was so much fun, so I'm looking forward to him being in the director seat again).
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Aug 14, 2009 12:33:31 PM CDT
Zombie reads these TB's yes? Perfect remake right here...
by cellar door
1977's "The Car" with James Brolin and Kathleen Loyd. Seriously, this is the most perfect remake for Zombie's style. No, it's not a 'undead zombie' movie but it is a purely kick ass, utterly 70's 'thriller' flick that takes place in basically the same undisclosed mid-western settings as Rejects. Has a brilliant and hyper-white trash character R.G Armstrong (the General in Predator) which would be perfect for Sid Haig (the genius)!Seriously, this is my vicarious dream project for Zombie...and that 'on the phone next to window view of long dark road scene with the headlights coming' is just brilliant, brutal, and totally underrated (absolute favorite scene of the movie and one of my favorite scenes of any movie..especially given the context of that scene and the event that proceeded it in the film)...the original was PG I believe and was soft on violence and gore altho it had menace and atmosphere in abundance. If he made a hard R version..get Forsthye to channel his more somber and saner cop-like persona from The Rock and he could play Brolin's original role!Only one request...should be mandatory really...do NOT give anything more than what the original did in terms of defining the antagonist, who or what he/she/it is, where it came from and it's motivations beyond what was originally shown. It's not exactly obtuse but then if you forecast the whole thing with a backstory you break the pace and insistence of the flick. The Car just shows up...no rhyme or reasons but merely some hint as to its origin...I love that movie...it's Grindhouse in appearance but conventional in execution...also...use the exact same model for the Car...I still want one for my very own! With that same loud ass air horn!
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The Halloween remake would have been better severed if it had used Manson's horrid upbringing as a template for Michael. There are very good reasons why Manson turned out to be fubar in the head, but I don't feel the same way about Michael. I've said it before, if an abusive stepdad and a stripper mother was all it took to create a force of evil...that doesn't bode well for some of the nation's more rural communities.
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Now that he has done the whole "re-imagining" thing Halloween 2 could rock. He has an old school sensibility to horror that u just don't see anymore. I'm optimistic.
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All u guys just totally bashing these remakes...and yes some are pretty bad...maybe need to go back and watch the originals again. Last House on the Left, The Hills Have Eyes, Friday the 13th and so on were never Citizen Cane to begin with.
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Mel is right, beaks dropped the ball on that one. That's the one project i would have happly supported had Zombie decided to shoot this movie. Instead we get a sequel to a remake that most people don't give a shit about.How "original".
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"Internet created dislike" my ass. It's an awful movie that completely misses the point and subtlety of its source material.
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that this flick is indeed awesome.Robs attitude is so much more positive then it was on the 1st one. I think hes got a winner on his hands, I cant wait for August 28th.
In the span of 3 weeks this summer will be awesome for films.
D-9
Inglourious Basterds
Halloween 2 -
really. Musically he is like listening to a loop, same shit over and over and over. And as far as his directing/writing skills...this just prove anyone can get a gig in Hollywood so long as you act "controversial". Hack
Rob Zombie is the Bob Orci or directors. -
Wasn't Dourif in Heaven's Gate?Gates of Heaven was that pet cemetery film by Errol Morris.
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First 10 minutes...there's no excuse for. Just absolutely shittastic. Then, aside from some weirdness like Michael's girly run, etc., things start to pick up. All the stuff from Michael being in the asylum, except for McDowell's "You're my best friend" speech is pretty awesome. It feels really fresh and exciting because you don't know what's going to happen, but you know it's going to be violent as fuck.Then it just sort of turns into a typical slasher film, but not a bad one. Ultimately I like the film, but I see so many bad decisions that could have been avoided.I have high hopes for the sequel, particularly since it doesn't spend a whole lot of time at the hospital, which the trailer DOES make it look like is the case.The whole Sherry moon zombie as a weird white ghost thing isn't exactly reassuring since she can't act for shit and it just seems out of place and more in line with Jason Voorhees.
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Exactly why Zombie is the wrong person for HALLOWEEN. Would have worked well remaking Friday the 13th, etc.
Zombie doesn't get that you rooted for Laurie, and her friends were trashy and slutty, but didn't have completely unredeemable qualities. They were just normal teenage girls. Perhaps it's because he sees women as strictly sexual objects he's unable to write for them... but did anyone find Laurie or her friends the least bit sympathetic? It was an ugly movie without a single character to care about.
Let me guess, we're gonna get a single scene with Annie staying home to establish she's "changed" by this event... and Laurie is gonna be a drug using party animal for 5 minutes before spending the whole movie screaming and running for her life... That's not character development Rob.
If this piece of junk ends with Laurie losing her mind like Halloween: Resurrection or some lame-ass shit like that I'm gonna puke.
Halloween was always about the people Michael stalked, he was a shape... when he's brought into the foreground it's really hard to understand the point of a movie. Who wants to watch a character brutally slaughter innocent people for 2 hours? Again, rent Friday the 13th... Halloween was classier than that. It's unfortunate to see it settle to the bottom of the horror pool as just a run-of-the-mill slasher flick. *sigh -
Bull-fucking-shit. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, Annie and Lynda were just as annoying and unlikable in Carpenter's film; all Zombie did was add vulgarity and crassness to their characters, which is par for the course with real teenagers. Watch the original Halloween with the blinders off - all they do is talk about fucking without actually saying the word "fuck." So hold off on the sanctimonious horseshit about how Laurie's friends in the original were sympathetic characters you rooted for, because they weren't, unless you're a slutty teenage girl with cock on the brain 24/7. Can anyone here seriously argue this point?
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put the mask on Sherrie and have her kill everybody. Naked. That would be worth a Netflix.
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Fucking smelly nerds, yuck.
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I think I fall somewhere between mayorofsmpleton and CaptainAxis. The movie was about many things including stalkers/killers and how they work at eye-level camera angles, seeing through the eyes of a killer (literally), how unsafe our 'safe' places really are, and both likable teenagers as well as the unseen evil that's out there in the everyday world today and throughout history. Carpenter's teenagers WERE teenagers and there were not any more "wholesome" than today's teenagers or the ones portrayed in RZ's version, but they were definitely less annoying and believable. First-off let me say that I LOVE Danielle Harris and have since she was a child actress doing incredible things for her age in what wold normally be a throwaway multi-sequel slasher film. My fan crush for her and honest belief that she's a real talented actress the RZ remake felt like even though they were close in age if not EXACTLY the proper age of the characters they were playing they felt like they were acting as teenagers and not being them. There was an earnestness and charisma to Curtis that was missing in the remake and therefore I had little to no empathy for the characters. Or what happened to them. Sure some of the 80's slasher films were cookie cutter and far from 'HIgh Art', but in their smallest ways they were trailblazers for one thing or another and these remakes are just carbon copies no matter how you re-skin them and shoot them with better equipment. Nightmare could be good if with good story, acting and definitely better FX. But you're telling me that an orphaned mentally challenged kid in the woods can build an intricate series of tunnels and rid electrical for the entire underground lair (Friday remake) and this is being remade to IMPROVE upon the old? Come on.
Without rehashing others' comments to much it goes without saying that if RZ wanted to make a movie about the inner working of a serial killer he could have avoided the whole Halloween franchise and did something on his own. Simple fact is that they used name recognition to try to dovetail his cool concept that was not needed per se in the Halloween mythology into a franchise for the simple fact of bringing in more dollars on name alone. Judging from a few previous TB's in this thread it's apparent that RZ might just be a decent director if there's a good script to start with and actor's worth their salt. Personally I also agree that en entire cast of well-knowns is a litle distracting and can pull you from a film as much as the theme does. Speaking of which...I can agree with that excuse for pulling the song from the film(s), but it needs to be there to some extent as it was PERFECT from the start which is why it's so iconic. The same goes for Elfman's Batman theme, William's Superman and Jaws themes. They worked PERFECTLY for the stories being told an the emotions they were created to instill in us. If RZ is arguing that it takes us out of the movie based on familiarity of the score then consider his statement that apparently not many people have seen the originals. So it wouldn't' have that affect on them so no worries. Refer to John Ottman's embellishment of the John William's Superman theme(s) and how he expended and made them his own in Superman Returns. Being more known as a talented musician I'd think Zombie could go that route with the theme and keep older fans happy while instilling the same chilling feeling in newer less familiar moviegoers. -
why the heck Dr. loomis is back when he was killed ON SCREEN in zombies first Halloween.
or why he feels the need to have his but ugly trailer trash wife in every movie, seriously do we need his wife as a ghost in the new halloween, i think not. -
funniest moment on film in 2007 was when michael is holding that picture of him and laurie as a baby and making moaning noises
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seriously. Who cares about Saw 6. It's a tired franchise. open it two weeks before Halloween and it'll be a bigger hit.
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is a functioning sociopath. That's why he identifies with the killers in his movies, not the victims. Which is kinda cool. I've always thought that, had they lived, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold would have made freakin' righteous horror/slasher films from prison.
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Like, maybe, the weekend before . . . HALLOWEEN. Maybe? Who are the marketing guys taking home fat paychecks for settling on an August release date for a franchise called HALLOWEEN?
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Read Columbine from David Collum.
Eric Harris was a Psychopath. He displayed all the traits.
Dylan Klebold was a suicical love sick follower that just wanted to go out with a bang. -
I am a Halloween fan from way back--but, the REAL Halloween, not the pervert Michael Myers version.
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...is right on target, as far as I'm concerned. Two movies indeed, with the second half feeling rushed & listless at the same time. I really loved his "young Michael" material, and these comments from Zombie make me a little more interested in his follow-up. He's a genuine stylist, with a real (not hack) affection for old-school horror. I love "are you a giant?" from the trailer, harking all the way back to...was it "Son of Frankenstein"? Anyway, I hope Zombie continues to play in the horror playground for some time, whether he does more "reimagining" or original material.
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You call out the assertion that "Halloween" is about the victims, not the killer, then proceed to substantiate your argument with stuff that's completely beside the point. Do keep up with yourself, Cap.
First of all, whether or not the film was about the victims has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they were likeable or sympathetic. Ask yourself how much you knew about Michael after the first film. Ask yourself how much screen time he got in comparison to Laurie. Ask yourself what his character arc was. The movie was not about Michael.
Second, you make the assertion that Laurie and her friends were not likeable characters...because they talk about sex with their friends? Really? And your follow-up is that "all Zombie did was add crassness and vulgarity to their characters." Hey, guess what: crassness and vulgarity are traits that make people unlikeable. You might want to write that one down.
Finally, yeah, I rooted for Laurie and her friends in the original film. If you didn't, I'm pleased not to know you. You're the guy conservatives are worried about when they freak out over violent media. Congratulations. -
Honestly, I don't find her terrible as an actress by any means. In House of 1000 Corpses she was definitely rough, but she had improved for Devil's Rejects, and her small part in Halloween was fine. I do think Zombie should consider NOT casting his wife in his movies to avoid some of the internet backlash, but on the other hand, most people seeing his movies probably DON'T know it's his wife. And maybe some don't even know he has a music background. Imagine that!
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Aug 15, 2009 8:02:03 PM CDT
Seen the trailer for this shit and I have to think lost his damn
by hollywoodhellraiser
I fucking lost it at the Mike Myers lifting up a vehicle!I know horror guys like Jason, Mike, and the others are strong and seemed invunerable but give me a break!How did that fat lousy kid growup to be a tall, vehicle lifting, murderous SOB?I wish for once these movies stop with the supernatural elements just showed these killers hitting the gym!I mean its not impossible considering our prison systems allows murderes, rapists, and molesters to lift weights and get stronger while behind bars.But Mike didn't seem like the type lifting weights in the first movie unless he did it so he could escape and go on a killing spree! Which if you think about does make sense.
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You're right - Laurie and her friends got more screen time in Carpenter's Halloween. That's why Zombie did something completely different with (the first half of) his remake. I swear, most of you bitch about the Platinum Dunes remakes being beat-for-beat copies of the originals, but apparently that's what you would have preferred in a Halloween remake. Really, what else could he have done? He had to choose either realism or fantasy. Realism means he likely came from a broken home or some kind of fucked-up situation; he didn't just suddenly "turn evil" one night and butcher his sister for no reason. Realism means Laurie and her friends swear and make crude jokes; don't believe me, take a ride on public transit sometime. Realism means Dr. Loomis would cash in on his association with Myers; I didn't like that slant on the character at first, but it does make sense and puts a fresh spin on Loomis, because THIS ISN'T CARPENTER'S HALLOWEEN. Yes, yes, the last half was a retread of the original and lost the verisimilitude he had going in the first half, but he admits those faults in this very interview and explains why.
I haven't seen one original idea from any of you who hate the remake so passionately. I asked this in a couple other H2 talkbacks, but I never get a coherent answer: What would you have done with the remake? It was going to be made no matter what, that's a fucking fact, so you can't use the "I wouldn't have remade it" copout. The only guy here with any ideas is the mouthbreather above who thinks the writers should come up with "more creative kills" and apparently extrapolate the story from there. Which is about a million times worse and more creatively and morally bankrupt than anything Zombie did in his film. -
I've read a lot of his interviews and he is a pretty cool dude. I think both Corpses and Rejects are like car wrecks. I don't want to look at it, but I can't look away. They are brilliant, perverse and flawed all at the same time. Not a fan of his Halloween. You can't recreate Carpenter's mood, which is what makes it a classic. But it certainly looks like he's made the new one his own.
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I think Zombie was on the right track with the origins and motivations of young Michael, but my approach would have kept the facade of the Myers clan being the typical suburban family, as we saw in the opening of the original. Dad as a big office executive and successful businessman, a "pillar of the community" type. Mom would be a trophy wife who appears to adore her children. Judith attends an elite Catholic/private school, where she is the perfectly pious student adored by her teachers. However, behind closed doors it's a completely different story. Dad is a closet drunk who emotionally and physically abuses his family after work, especially little Mikey; Mom projects all her fears and insecurities onto little Mikey when she's not ignoring her kids in favor of her social circle; and Judith is secretly a slutty gold-digger who uses the internet to lure her "sugar daddies" and older guys who can do something for her in exchange. This would be a good metaphor for the literal masks that Michael eventually adopts; his whole family wear masks of their own in terms of how they present themselves outside the home. Eventually he begins to withdraw until he finally snaps and slaughters his family, except for the baby sister who was resented by the others, just like Michael. 15 years later, a still-silent Michael somehow finds out that the teenage Laurie has gone down the wrong path and escapes from Smith's Grove with the intent to kill Laurie because she turned out just like the others. Alternatively, he could find out that Laurie had the perfect life with her adoptive family and he pursues her out of jealousy.
Now it's your turn, brainiacs. -
Aug 16, 2009 8:20:20 AM CDT
"Internet-created" my ass. Your movie was shit. Deal with it!
by darksider
Anyone saying it was good to your face is being nice or just plain kissing your ass because they like you and not the picture. I love how he won't admit to knowing or understanding shit when it comes to any form of criticism. Take some fucking responsibility! People fuck up! It happens to everyone, but apparently not to Rob Zombie. If a clear majority of people dislike something, there might be something to it. Go figure.
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Does that make it a good film?
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Considering that the two most successful films in the series (H20 and the remake) since the original came out in August, I am guessing that Dimension knows what they're doing.
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