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A look at the American Dubbed MONONOKE HIME (aka Princess Mononoke)
Hey folks, Harry here. Right now... this very second, I see Robogeek's visual scanners scraping this page and.... suddenly... SQUELCH! That was the sound of Robogeek screaming. God I hope Claire Danes hasn't screwed this film up. After MOD SQUAD and BROKEDOWN PALACE I was ready to not see her on screen for a while, but if she has 'valley girled' MONONOKE HIME.... ARGH! I've seen this film undubbed and with no sub-titles and enjoyed the hell out of it. I've been dying to see the film projected, and personally I'd prefer an original undubbed, subtitled (written by Gaiman ala Anthony Burgess' subtitles for the Derpardieu CYRANO DE BERGERAC). Sigh... Oh well, maybe it isn't as bad as this spy let's on.
Hey Harry, Love the site. Been reading it since the buildup of Starship
Troopers, one of the decades best sci-fi. I caught a screening of
Princess Mononoke a few weeks ago here at a Sony Loews in Manhattan. I
haven't seen any posts on your sight and I just got the time so I
thought I would write a mini' for you.
Let me just start off by saying that I have no idea how this movie
became the top grossing anime in Japan. If you liked Wings of
Honnaimese then you will enjoy this film, if you are more of a fan of
action packed films like Akira or Vampire Hunter D, than you will
probably find this film lacking as I myself did. To sum up the plot, a
hero gets cursed, leaves his village, meets a couple of girls, some
wolves, and spends some time in a forest. There is the pretense of a
moral lesson dealing with nature and pollution but one would expect this
to figure in with the conclusion of the film. One of the biggest
problems with the script was that nothing was really in a different
place when the film ended then when it began. The head nemesis actually
states that she will do what she did again, and everyone goes along with
her. The characters were mildly interesting, including a forest god
that is just outright WEIRD. The animation however was excellent, top
notch, reason enough for some to see this movie..
The biggest disappointment for me were the voices. Claire Daines makes
the Princess sound like some reject valley girl. When she tells the
hero to leave the forest it sounds like a spoiled brat complaining to
her mother for more allowance money. Billy Bob Thornton put absolutely
no effort into this film, save for reading the script into a microphone.
His character is one of a wise appearing short guy, (not yoda like, but
more like a tricky leprechan) who pops up now and again throughout the
film. it could have been one of the funnier roles with some effort put
into it. Hopefully they would re-record the part, the character would
be better off mute than as it is. Minnie Driver and Gillian Anderson
were really good. Minnie was much better than in Tarzan she brought
grace and strength to her character, ditto for Anderson who had a touch
of synth added to her voice to add to her characters spiritual side.
There are some really cute ghost critters in the forest but if you hated
the ewoks then you will really despise these guys. Well I loved the
ewoks and I found these guys to be the best thing about this film.
Princess Mononoke does run a little long so I hope they cut something
else. Most of the others seemed to agree, really laughing out loud at
Claires sorely out of place vocal talents. I would say save your money
but if everyone goes to see this it will increase the chances of some
other great anime making it to our theaters, and God for bid we see a
decent Godzilla on the big screen.
If you post this, call me GayZilla
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I have heard much about this film, but know little or nothing about it. Seeing anime on the big screen will be a first for me, but Dubbing has been a problem for anime for years now. I think action anime is great as well, but isn't bad to see some story driven animation at times.
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No really, he's complaining it isn't more action and blood and guts? Animation can do more than that, buddy. Vampire Hunter D was a crappy blood fest with zero plot and Akira, while mezirizing, was violent as hell. And that's not all Anime can be. People in America should see that Anime can be far more effective than some of our live action films! And that doesn't mean how many body parts can explode and become visible. And come on, this guy liked the Ewoks? Yeah, he's a good judge. I trust this opinion a lot.
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Someone who states Vampire Hunter D as a favorite title obviously hasn't had much experience with anime. You should rent Grave of the Fireflys for an example of excellent anime. How can you diss Myazaki? You missed the entire point of Mononoke Hime. However, I hadn't seen the dub yet, so I don't know if it's been ruined in that respect...
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Since the only Anime I've seen that I haven't hated is Miyazaki, I've got to put this in the ranks of the "close, but no cigar" review. God, Akira was painful. What I don't understand is that people claim a lot of incomprehensible anime is worth watching for the brilliant visuals, but the same people are quick to attack an American movie with good visuals and a lame plot. Is there some difference I'm missing?
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Yep, this just cements what I've thought all along: Dubbing is flat-out evil. The dub of Ghost in the Shell was absolutely horrible, and this one sounds like more of the same. Thankfully, I've got a subtitled copy of Mononoke Hime on VHS. Disney won't be getting that $8 from me this time. (Does Claire Danes ever *not* sound like a spoiled Valley Girl? Sigh...)
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i agree that i would much rather see an un-dubbed version. i really hate dubbed animes, especially when they all have annoying canadian accents but now, even worse, a claire danes valley girl voice..ugh...
now, you say that anyone who enjoyed wings of honnaimese will enjoy this. well, that's a compliment. wings of honnaimese was a very critically acclaimed anime. i really like miyazaki movies. and i really can't wait to see this one. next to nausicaa, this is supposedly one of his best. as far as the ewok-like things go. i'm sure they won't be the best part of the movie. i hate the ewoks. ^__^ -
How can you post this review? Granted, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on how this film is, but to post a review by someone who [not only didn't mention ever seeing a sub version, making one think he hasn't] would dare review a film they mildly understood? Yes, there are underlying nudges towards the ills of pollution, and the environment, but it goes so much deeper than that. Reading this review I can draw two conclusions: 1) The reviewer knows next to *NOTHING* about good anime, and good story, or 2)Gaiman royally screwed this script up. And seeing as Gaiman is a terrific writer, and the reviewer liked `Akira' for the action - not it's intensly cerebral story - yet disliked WOH, I'll go with the former, and continue my plans to see this on the big screen.
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This review just makes me mad. I have to agree with the other anime loving posters here that this "GayZilla" just doesn't know anything about anime (other than, perhaps, it costs him 30 bucks to buy the latest fight fest from Record Town). I'ld go even further: Harry - you've seen this film? How could you then say you would prefer it dubbed? How could you let a piss poor review come through? I'll never understand why film "buffs" think they know everything about film when they don't know what the rest of the world is doing. I've gotta go, because this just upsets me too much...
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Tarzan disappointed folks, Iron Giant undeservedly tanked, now we hear of another poor dubjob on this movie, the one I was hoping would finally drag Miyazaki's "Nausicaa" out into the light... Let's cut to the freaking chase, shall we? Release 'Princess Mononoke' direct to video and save animation fans the heartbreak of another no-cigar.
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Um, you people (especially Mister Reviewer) seem to lack some historical perspective with regard to the cultural phenomenon known as 'Valley Girls'. Valley girls have accents like Brendan Fraser and say things like "Like, gag me with a spoon. Fer sure." Now please indicate to me when Miss Danes (who, if I'm not mistaken, is from the exact opposite coast as 'the Valley') has ever spoken using this vernacular.
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.....ummmm....you gents are certainly entitled to your own opinions but let me remind you that they are like assholes - everyone has one and they all stink. To even compare Akira with FOTNS/VHD....I have to call Shenanigans on that. This goes for Gayzilla's moronic review as well. Let's just hope the dubbing info is as wrong as this review as well. And can we all please hop off the Akira-bashing bandwagon....can't we all just get along....
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Last year when Disney released KIKI'S DELIVERY SERVICE direct to video on their Buena Vista, they did so with a dubbed version featuring many name performers like Kirsten Dunst, Phil Hartman, & Janeane Garofalo. That was the version I saw everywhere. I was surprised when I saw a letterboxed, subtitled version available, also put out by Disney on their Buena Vista label at Suncoast. Hopefully, the same will be done for this film.
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My two cents on the dubbing debate. I believe anime would not be as popular as it is today if it were not available a dubbed forms. I have notice that a lot of people do buy dubbed anime. I myself try to avoid the dubs. A long with the dubs, the companies also supply subtitled versions of anime, but at higher prices because they are not as popular. As for Princess Monohime, if the dubbing is terrible, I say the studio should release a subtitles version of the film in the arthouses. So that way I can see a good anime on the big screen.
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Vampire Hunter D?? I HATED Vampire Hunter D!!! I just can't understand why it continues to be popular. My favorite anime includes titles like Evangelion, Escaflowne, and anything by Leiji Matsumoto. I'm afraid I can't take GayZilla's review very seriously, especially since this is the first negative thing I've heard about Mononoke Hime. I'm not talking about his dubbing concerns (I hate dubs anyway), but his criticism of the structure of the film. Everywhere else this film has been hailed as completely brilliant.
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The sad truth is that most dubs are so bad that it's better to watch it with subtitles instead. But there's no way you can tell me that subs are preferrable to (the admittedly rare) good dub jobs. Movies are a visual medium. Anything that forces you to take your eyes off the action and read is NOT 'presenting it how the director intended' any more than a dub. A good dub job that presents the material with the same emotions and intentions of the original, as well makes an attempt to lip-synch, can be quite fine. You can even include minor cultural changes (eg, from a girl's voice to a man's voice ala the cat in Kiki) if need be without ruining it I think. Akira, Kiki's Delivery Service, Armitage III (except for Kiefer haha) are pretty good examples..
And occasionally, even so-so voice dubs are saved by the inclusion of bone-crunching dolby digital surround sound. Usually, this applies to action flicks. See Supercop and Black Mask. -
Hello Harry,
After reading Gayzilla's review, I had to respond. I saw the Miramax dub Friday night at the Comic Con and Gayzilla is dead wrong, about everything. This is a superb dub. The best I have ever seen. After the first ten minutes, I forgot I was watching a dub at all. Neil Gaiman deserves a great deal of credit for doing such an excellent job with this. Minnie Driver is wonderful, Gillian Anderson injects a little humor into Moro, Billy Bob Thornton is great. But the biggest surprise is Billy Crudup as Ashitaka. He appears in just about every scene so his performance is crucial. He's good, very good, in fact. I confess up until now Crudup has never made any impression on me. I've seen a few things he's in and I still can't put a face to him. But his voice work is just fine here. As for Claire Danes, she's not that bad. There were a few scenes where she sounded a little strident, but she doesn't sound like a valley girl.
I have mixed feelings about dubs in general. I don't agree with the purists that they necessarily have to be bad, it's just that they are rarely done very well because no one wants to be bothered re-scripting a film to match the mouth movements and hiring decent actors. In this case, they succeeded admirably on both counts. Gaiman was present afterwards for a Q&A, and he commented on some of the difficulties he had. He mentioned one bit of dialog that he re-wrote to sound more natural in English that the Studio Ghibli guy objected to on the grounds that it wasn't a literal translation. But the Gaiman version was better than the literal translation. Gaiman claims that there's nothing missing from the English version and a little bit added to clear up things that would make no sense to someone not familiar with Japanese culture.
I enjoyed the film thoroughly and would recommend it to anyone, even those who normally hate dubs. -
I've seen the sub and just recently I can say that I've seen the dub. Although I consider myself a sub pureist, it is my opinion that the Mononoke dub was a good dub. I have no idea where Gayzilla is coming from. One who has such a narrow view of anime has no right to review it. Also, no true fan of anime in his right mind would ever suggest that a second of an orignal work should be cut. Mononoke is a great movie and everyone should go see it.
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I remember back when I had first heard about Disney getting the rights to the Miyazaki films. Like most Miyazaki fans, I feared the worst - Disney-fication of some of the best anime ever made. But after Kiki's Delivery Service was released, a lot of those fears disappeared. I saw the dubbed version in a theater (a local "art" theater near my college) and was impressed. They made it easy for American audiences to swallow while keeping it true to the original version. Okay, so I never saw the original version, but I read a list of the changes, and they really seem quite minor. I'm anxiously awaiting Princess Mononoke (I've seen a subbed version twice). I'm almost through reading Gaiman's Sandman series, and if anyone can write a great English script, he can. If the voices are done well, this could be a winner. It seems as though anime is slowly becoming more mainstream in the U.S., so there may actually be a glimmer of hope for commercial success. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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...here's hoping that the video release will be available in subbed (with Gaiman's script) as well as dubbed versions. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to do this with an American theatrical release, since it seems that the majority of American moviegoers don't want to have to read while they watch a movie, but it works well for a video release.
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From spending most of my childhood in Japan, I can say that the most of Miyazaki
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While I agree that the quality of voice acting is better in the original Japanese language 99% of the time, I'm still prone to watch dubs. And it's not because I'm lazy and don't want to read! Film is a visual medium, especially when we are talking about anime, and I'd rather follow the action than read dialogue. Subtitles are fine on video because you can instantly rewind if you miss something, but for a film released into theaters, they are a real bummer. And from what I here of this movie visually speaking, I don't want to miss anything. In a perfect world, we'd all be able to speak Japanese. Ah, but who has the time? :) The one thing I am adamantly against is dubbing music. How many of us have been tortured with hearing our favorite anime songs ruined by english lyrics or changed altogether? There's just no reason for it either. So far I've heard nothing of a Celine Deion song inserted into Monoke Hime, but I'm still bracing myself for it. shudder! Has anybody heard anything about the score/songs?... oh, and anime fans, don't attack each other. The great thing about anime is that it is so diverse (even though outsiders have put it in the "big eyes and robots" stereotype). I'm a big fan of comedic anime myself (Rumiko Takahashi, CLAMP, Toriyama). And while I don't really care for Akira, Wings of Honameise, etc. I appreciate that anime caters to all types of people. Bakusai Tenkitsu to all!
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What concerns me about this particular review of Mononoke Hime is that the reviewer states that "One of the biggest problems with the script was that nothing was really in a different place when the film ended then when it began." I assume the reviewer would have preferred a more clear-cut and linear script with a definite ending, vis-a-vis our friends in Anaheim. You are not going to get anything that simple with a Miyazaki work, and I'm glad you don't. Mononoke Hime is ambiguous, and that's going to naturally turn off those who have been conditioned into simplistic story structure by most modern N. American animation. The exact same criticism could have been leveled at "Eyes Wide Shut", but I didn't see it. Miyazaki's "My Neighbor Totoro" had no real plot by Western standards, but that doesn't stop it from being one of the most outstanding children's films I've ever seen. Really though, it's not that surprising-- I mean, this weekend in Tokyo two of the most awaited anime features of the year, the "Shoujo Kakumei Utena Adolescence Mokushiroku" / "Cyber Team in Akihabara 2011" double feature opened in TWO major Tokyo area theatres that I know of. Two. Right now Adam Sandler's "Waterboy" is playing in four. I don't even want to guess how many theatres "Card Captor Sakura - The Movie" (remember that name, N. Americans -- she'll be on our TV in a year or so) will open to shortly, and that's a major franchise. So, to sum up: Subtitles are good; Disney=OK; Iron Giant=Really Good; Mononoke Hime=Much, Much Better; Nausicaa=Masterpiece.
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GayZilla must have had his eyes covered during the entire film; otherwise he/she would have realized that Mononokehime is a VERY violent and action-packed film, one that I personally would not take small children to see (not that Disney is targeting children in their marketing). From the opening scene with the fight between Ashitaka and the tatarigami boar, the film is full of gore. What distinguishes Mononokehime from Akira is that every violent act has a purpose, and is not simply the mindless act of an enraged child.
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OK, after reading the comments and the reveiw of Mononoke Hime. I can see that not many of the people around here have even seen REAL anime (not that tripe they try to pass off as anime) Apologies to Drath and Kentobi... you do have a touch of Otaku (and I KNOW its out of context). Miyazaki is the highest rated anime person in Japan for a reason. The stories that Miyazaki Studios produces have some of the most depth that has ever been animated. Has a lot of this been lost on the cultural diffrences between the US and Japan... sure. But still stories like Nausica and The Valley of the Wind, The Crimson Pig, and Mononoke Hime stir one emotions at the human level.
Is the dubbed version going to be bad... probably. Since I have been a fan of anime for a long time, I prefer the subtitled to the dubbed because there are diffrent levels of inflection that gets missed in the dubbed version.
I will see the big screen Mononoke Hime, but regardless of how bad it is buchered, it is a Miyazaki film. Most of their stuff is in my top favorite anime of all time. Of course most of it is stuff that will never see the light of day in the US. Things like Macross 7, X, Bakaratsu Hunters (recently buchered as the Sorcerer Hunters), Porco Rozo, Memories, and several others, are not "main stream" enough to be brought over into the US marketplace... but I have most of it in my personal collection.
As far as "Gayzilla's" review... can we REALLY trust the opinion of someone who LIKED Starship Troopers? Here's a clue... READ THE BOOK! But that is another rant....
Ciao
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I must cast my vote for subtitles, although I do enjoy some dubs, depending on the series (I prefer Ranma 1/2 in English). This GayZilla guy is way off base. When I was first exposed to anime, it was through a friend who hooked me up with Dragonball episodes he taped while at home in Japan during the summer. Most people I know cut their anime teeth on 3 dubs...Vampire Hunter D, FOTNS, and Akira. Sadly, the violence and blood are what sticks in a lot of peoples minds, and that becomes all they expect from all anime. I believe GayZilla to be a fair weather otaku who probably likes hentai. Folks, if you arent familiar with anime, please keep in mind that yes some of it is violent, but a lot of it has great, compelling, and outright cool stories. Check out stuff like Kimagure Orange Road or Record of Lodoss War or the classic Gundam series you'll find the world of anime to be diverse and cool as hell.
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Mononoke Hime is without a doubt the single film I
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Um, there's no such thing as Miyazaki Studios. Miyazaki does his films for Studio Ghibli. Just so everyone knows the Hayao Miyazaki films are (in chronological order): Castle of Caglistro, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, My Neighbor Totro, Kiki's Delivery Service, Porco Rosso, and Mononoke Hime. That doesn't include past and future shorts (which include a Totoro semi-sequel). Subtitles are better. You get to hear voice-actors, instead of actors who are using their voice... America has few voice-actors... among them Tom Hulce... who also happens to act... Oct 29th... Princess Mononoke... is good. Other Ghibli films to check out: Whispers of the Heart, The Grave of the Fireflies, Pom Poko and the just-released My Neighbors the Yamadas. Hey, hey, hey.
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I mean c'mon...the guys name is "Gayzilla". How accurate can his review be? I managed to catch the trailer at the Dimension Films booth and i nearly fell over, it kicked too much ass to mention. And the music...good lord, did it rule!!! All Hail Joe Hisaishi!!!! Furthermore, there's no way that a movie that was the highest grossing film in the world (before Titanic) is going to be that bad. Go back to the Ginza, Gayzilla. BV out!
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let's not forget that the (difficult to obtain/no previous official English translation) dubbed version of Laputa:Castle In The Sky with the voices of Anna Paquin and James Van Der Beek is heading straight to video. I would assume that Disney will be releasing day-and-date dubbed and subtitled versions as they did with Kiki's. It would also make sense if they released a subtitled Mononoke when it eventually comes to video. If the notion of dubbing is that horrible to you, untranslated versions should be available at any large Japanese market.
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I have been a fan of anime for years now, and the thought of seeing any anime on the big screen excites me to no end. I really hate it though, when an american company has to go and bastardize a great anime. I have nothing but respect for Miyazaki. He is truely one of the greatest anime directors of all time. It kills me to hear bad things said about one of his films in any form. I can only hope that this guy is wrong, and that I'm in for a real experance. Please excuse the spelling, this guy has had a few too many.
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Perhaps a couple of quotes from Miyazaki will help this reviewer out: "I wish I could assume that our side is always right, and that all evil belonged to the enemy. It would make my job so much easier." "We are not trying to solve the global problems. There can not be a happy ending to the fight between the raging gods and humans. However, even in the middle of hatred and killings, there are things worth living for. A wonderful meeting, or a beautiful thing can exist." So many people, seeing MH, assume that it's just a simple environmental homily, and then are disappointed when it doesn't kill the evil deforesters or present some other solution at the end. The whole point is that there is no solution. Oh, and anyone who says that nothing has changed during the film obviously was not paying attention.
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This is not a post about anime, but rather about dubbing issues.See the french subtitled version of la femme nikia, and then watch the dubbed version. the movie goes from a cyberpunk classic, down to a USA late night action film....ie,cheesy.Did the bad american voice-overs ruin the film that much?Hell yeah,fuckin ruined the film, that's why I'll have to disagree w/the people bashing subtitles.
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I think it is fair to say that most US anime fans cut their teeth on movies such as Akira & Vampire Hunter D. But let's also include Bubblegum Crisis, Ranma 1/2 & Yatsure ?? (I can't remember (with Princess Lum & a HS boy)- I didn't care for it). And Record of Lodoss War - excellent (though I wish there was more). NeoGenesis Evangelion - some deeeeep stuff there. But on the topic of Subs vs Dubs - I prefer Subs mainly because Dubs are not usually good...and I'm not annoyed by Japanese female & young male voices. I also read VERY quickly, so I don't have a problem. My hubby, and several friends, who don't read so quick, do NOT like Subs...and it's not because they don't WANT to read. Perhaps "mainstream" US theatre & companies will continue the upward trend of Dubbing. Now if only there were more fantasy movies in an Anime vein...live action or animated, I don't care. Story + visual effects. Sayonara!
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I'm not particularly found of flaming people, but I thought I'd make an exception for this reviewer (and I use that term loosely). The opening statement about action is inane, superfluous, pointless, and totally without any spark of intelligence. Please, Mr. GayZilla, go back to watching Dirty Pair Flash & Legend of the Overfiend, okey-dokey? Wise otaku will know I just delivered a brutal insult. Now that I've vented my distaste, (and probably annoyed one or two people, sorry about that, but it needed to be said), I think I'll voice my opinion on the movie: I have no doubts that it'll be quite excellent, but what I don't understand, why wasn't it released subtitled? It's an intelligent foreign film, and any US distributor would release a foreign film subbed. But not if it's a cartoon I suppose? Yes, sure, I know the marketing schemes, yadda yadda, but lets face is, and the US distribs don't trust or respect the product. The whole notion of getting big 'stars' to dub anime is insane enough (Armitage the Third aside), considering they have zero experience with Japanese animation or the marvelous acting that is put into the original products. Japanese voice acting is always done by seiyuu, who are of the highest caliber of talent, to such a degree that someone doesn't speak a word of Japanese can sit down, watch an un-subbed, un-dubbed film and actually have a rough idea what's going. There is no actor in the US, voice or not, who could ever hold a candle to people like Hayashibara Megumi, or others I wont take the time to name. *sigh* I'm rambling, and I'm cursing the so-called 'professionals' for defacing art like Mononoke Hime. Any otaku (like me) worth his or her salt knows All Dubs Suck anyway. Long love Subtitles! Long live raw anime!
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I'm a hard-core anime enthusiast and I find dubbed anime to be just downright painful to watch. It's nice to not have to read subtitles every now and then, but there have been very few dubbed anime that I think or ok (Wings of Honneamise isn't bad). However, I think two of the worst dubbed anime that come to mind are Armitage III:Polymatrix (Elizabeth Birkley is HORRIBLE) and Tenchi Muyo (Tenchi sounds like Kermit the Frog). I guess my biggest beef with dubbed anime is that it usually sounds really forced and unbelievable (like the actors are merely reading their lines). If you're looking for some truly amazing anime with good animation and excellent character development and complex plot, check out Neon Genesis Evangelion (not the dubbed, heard it sucks, and the plot points get mangled). This is the deepest and most complex anime I have ever seen: deep in religious allegory, philosophy, and cool mecha action. Check it out.
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I've been an anime fan for many years now and love both, dubbed and subtitled versions of anime, although I love subtitled more. I wish, for dubbing purposes, if they bring more to the big screen, why not use voice actors that are regular anime dubbers. At least they know how to get character's voices right..most of the time:) I've seen the subtitled version of PM and it is tremendous, but as far as dubbing goes, leave that to the voice actors that anime fans are familiar with, maybe then the dubbing may not seem so bad. I have to admit though, I have seen some pretty awfully dubbed movies in my time as well. As for movie length too long, should cut some stuff. That would be a sacriledge to defile Myazaki's work like that. For me, if the movie is good, and holds my interest I dont care how long it is, as long as it is enjoyable. In actuality I would love to see them bring anime to the big screen subtitled. Anime fans would love it, and I think it would convey the story stronger than dubbing would, casue we all know how much me love bad voice acting:)
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Look, we all know Mononoke will rock- why are we arguing about the relative merits of dub vs. sub, Akira vs. North Star etc. It's silly. Here's something even sillier: We are probably in the middle of the best single year for film in, well, forever. Think about this: Tarzan will likely end up as the FIFTH best animated movie released in North America this year (behind IG, MH, Toy Story 2 and, forgive me, South Park). That's outstanding in and of itself. Now look at this quick list of my top ten films so far this year: IG /Blair Witch /Matrix /Sixth Sense /Run Lola Run /South Park /Office Space /Summer of Sam /Election /Phantom Menace. You can quibble with the order, and swap a few of your own favorites in, but that's still a pretty killer list, even for a whole year. Now look at what hasn't yet come out: Fight Club /Mononoke /Sleepy Hollow /Dogma /the Straight Story /Being John Malkovich /Magnolia /Bringing Out the Dead /Green Mile /Toy Story 2 /the Insider /Man on the Moon /Cradle Will Rock /Three Kings /the Messenger /etc. etc.! Holy shit!!!!! What a year!
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I am really looking forward to seeing this movie, and fro mthe sound of this review, GAYZILLA is a chump and wouldnt know a decent movie if it bitchslapped him in the face several times. First he says Starship Troopers was one of the decades best SCI/FI movies...HA! Point two is that he likes action anime over story driven anime, (not that this is **BAD** but...) I really enjoyed "Wings over.." probably more than Akira (just because Akira is SO heavely hyped)...Most dubbed anime that uses well known american actors tends to suck (Look at Armitage III with Keifer Sutherland) the actors just dont want to participate. But Personally I'd rather pay LESS for a dubbed video, that pay MORE for a subtitled video... anime (so called) "fans" are only too happy to bitch and whine about poor dubbing every chance they get, folks ...DO YOU SPEAK JAPANESE? Are YOU a voice actor?? NO! you dont....so shut the hell up because you dont know what your talking about... I'll still go see this movie anyway... Sounds like GAYZILLA is a chump.
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where the hell do i start... i have a subtitled version of Princess Mononoke. I believe that it is a very moving film, wonderfully drawn, and well written. Vampire Hunter D ... it's dated, and badly dated at that, but that's my opinion ... they doing a remake ... i will be interested in that version ... it's by the same director of "Ninja Scroll"... which is very cool.. if you like the action stuff! Akira is a intersting piece of work... it deserves its praise... what the hell was better at the time? And now there are several films that have come out since which are diverse and wonderful... I wish people stop trashing American Animation ... there's some stuff that i really like .. what you ask? here i go (and i will withstand the backlash) Fire and Ice, The Lord of Rings, The Batman Animated series and Movies...Rock and Rule, Wizards, and the G.I. Joe movie ... good stuff, not great stuff...
Let's remember
What's great for some people is shit to others!!!!
the next time someone does a review have some knowledge about your subject... and be a bit more insightfull
anyway, i'm still going to see the film... it deserves to be seen on the big screen and it needs are support...!!!!!
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The whole debate of subtitled vs. dubbed movies isn't one of quality, but of quantity. If you subtitle all anime (or other foreign films, for that matter), you'll find the market audience less willing to buy into it. Why? I don't honestly know, though I'd venture to guess that most folks can't really get into a film that you spend half or more of your time reading than watching. For action anime, this is especially true. How hyped up can you get if you're spending all your time reading what they have to say instead of watching those nifty moves? As for improving the quality of the dubs, that's difficult at best due to one factor: the translation of Japanese into English. If any of you can perfectly and seemlessly translate Japanese into English, and keep sentence structure, grammar, and usage all correct, I'd suggest you go talk to the folks shipping anime over here. 'Cause otherwise, you have no clue how different the two languages are. (None of this is to offend our Japanese brethren. It's just that the languages are very different, and that presents an obstacle we must cross before communication of any kind gets better.)
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Anyone who listens to a person whose nickname is "Gayzilla" needs help anyway ;)
Aside from that, I am an anime fan and a Miyazaki lover. Miyazaki-san saved my childhood and he is someone who I've come to love and respect as I grew older. It was because of him that I chose to become an animator. Mononoke Hime is, in my opinion, one of his best works. This "Gayzilla" guy obviously has no knowledge of anime -- if he/she has knowledge of anything at all. He/she missed the point of Mononoke Hime by far, like it has been said here before.
As for anime in general, I'd say it all goes for taste. I love Tenchi Muyo, I hate Sailor Moon. I believe that it is possible to like series like Tenchi and not be a "freak". It all depends, and I think it goes for personal taste really.
I'm done blabbering now. And as for you, Gayzilla, make sure you know what you're talking about before you write a review, okay?
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I'm so glad somebody on this site had finally mentioned the quintessential piece of Canadian animation, Rock and Rule! That is the best of that whole "Post apocalyptic-Grown-Up" snimation from the 80s. Infintely better than Heavy Metal. Advice to Nelvanna: Remaster it and bring it back to us with a full CD soundtrack. Now.
"Oh, What will the signal be? For your Eyes to see me? Blondie RULES! -
Okay a few quips here and there:
First off let me say that I am another of the feared beings known as Otaku, crawling out of my hut here to say a few words. Here goes:
To the people commenting on seiyuu in anime, especially Miyazaki:
Please note that Miyazaki does NOT use seiyuu in his films. He uses regular ol' Japanese film actors. You will never see Megumi Hayashibara in a Miyazaki production ;)
For the person commenting on Miyazaki's filmography:
He wrote Whisper of the Heart (worth mentioning) and it was directed by his protege Yoshifumi Kondo who, sadly, died last year of cancer. Whisper of the heart is a great film, but it lacks the tight pacing that Miyazaki could have brought had he directed it. Also: there is an obscure TV movie called "I Can Hear the Sea" which I have seen, which I was told was Miyazaki... oh and you forgot "On your Mark" as well, which is a cool little music video he did.
With that said: Miyazaki is an outstanding artist and filmmaker. What is so great about his films, and Ghibli's animation, is the attention to details that other companies, like Disney, miss. When Kiki flies through a store on her broom, the combination of visual physics (the moving of her clothes etc), the sound of the breaking glass, and the overall sweep of the scene is more real than any scene with Tarzan skate boarding down tree limbs.
Monnonoke Hime is a great film but I also can't help but express dissatisfaction at the ending. Yes, I realize it's supposed to be ambiguous, Miyazaki himself said that the point of the movie is that "the war between gods and humans never ends", but there is something that I have always been uncomfortable with about the epilogue of the movie. It's always seemed to me... well... rushed. Rushed and anti-climactic. I think it would have almost been better off with out it (end the movie with everything fixed, but nothing changed), and maybe show scenes of what's happened to everyone through images in the credits (which he has done before) instead of the uncertain (and imo unecessary) dialogue between San and Ashitaka which closes the film. It also seemed to me to be an attempt to make things neat and tidy, rather than leave them uncertain.
Ambiguous endings are better off sudden: La Dulce Vita, Five Easy Pieces, and Eyes Wide Shut are good examples. The sudden stoppage should leave you with emptiness and dread (ala Vita and Pieces) or realization (EWS), or both. To me, Monnonoke builds and bubbles to a point, and then just freezes in place. It doesn't simmer back down like it should if the conflict is supposed to continue, it simply freezes in time.
I will say, however, that I admire the complexity of this movie. For years we've heard complaints about crazy environmentalists always siding with man over nature, well, here we see both sides clearly. It is possible to completely relate to Kushana's personality, and the wonderful things she has done for her people, and still hate the way she attacks the forest. It also possible to relate to the gods pain at having their land destroyed, but feel completely cut off and isolated by their cold personalities. This is what is missing from Nausicaa (but is definitely present in the Nausicaa manga ;) ) which is still a beautiful film, but much less complex than MH.
Also: Disney & Miyazaki. REmember that Miyazaki learned his lesson after the butchering of Nausicaa (Warriors of the Wind). Disney can NOT cut any footage or material from the film. As far as the song, I hope for one it remains in Japanese, as it's definitely traditional Japanese music in style. The song in Kiki's was changed due to the fact that it was an existing pop song in Japan, and Disney could not get the rights to use it. The credits song to MH was written for the film. It should be no problem. -
I can't believe I've just been lumped in with Eternal. OK, look. I don't like Akira. It's not because I'm cool and rebellious. In fact, since seeing the movie it seems to me most people agree with my anti-Akira opinion. I hadn't been an anime fan before, and I was constantly being told by my friends that anime kicked ass, that it was 1,000 times better than western animation, and that Akira was the best of the lot. So I rented it. After it was over I turned to my friend and said, "If that was the best anime ever, I don't think I'll be renting any more." Sure, it's viusally incredible. So is "What Dreams May Come." That didn't stop it from being a horrifically bad movie in the storytelling department. What others call "enigmatic" and "profound" I call "cliched" and "incoherent". (As in, the plot elements are cliched, and the narrative itself is incoherent.) I fail to see why it's any more cool or original than "The Matrix", a movie you seem to have contempt for. That experience (and several others, notably Ghost in the Shell), combined with the blind belief of its fans that anime is automatically superior to western animation, has soured me on anime. Of my personal top ten of animation, only one is anime, and--guess what?--it's Kiki's Delivery Service (the Japanese equivalent of "Iron Giant"). I *do* admire and respect Miyazaki, and I am looking forward to MH (a script by the brilliant Neil Gaiman is a major plus). These are not knee-jerk reactions; I have put a lot of thought into these opinions. Just to show I'm not prejudiced, I am looking forward to Dreamworks' proposed "Ash" movie, a western project with an eastern flavour, to be directed by the man who made Akira. I feel that eastern style combined with western narrative discipline will be the best of both worlds.
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I saw the film in San Diego, too, and thought it was pretty good. Daines had her high and low points, but I didn't think she or anyoen was as bad as the other guy who wrote his piece said. Anywa, I submitted my own review of the changes to Harry, so I hope he'll put it up, but I'll post it here anyways just in case:
The film begins exactly the same, and true to their agreement, Disney (they're actually releasing the film through
Dimension, a subsidary of Miramax) has not taken out one second of footage. Joe Hisaishi's score also seemed to be entirely
intact. But as for the dialogue, CHANGES GALORE. Not to dumb it down, but I could understand that changes had to be made by
Mr. Gaiman (who was there for Q & A, and whom I got to ask a few questions to as well). The first immediate change is that
during the once silent (save the score music) opening scene, now they have a narration by Keith David (from Dead Presidents,
Something About Mary, and the voice of Goliath from TV's Gargoyles). The opening prologue basically tells about the age of
forest gods and demons and what-not, which I guess is somewhat necessary for American audiences, who are not used to the
deep myth-style storytelling of the Japanese.
From that the story remains farily the same. Billy Crudup is a very good Ashitaka, and refers to his ride as "Yakkule"
instead of "Yakkuru". He then rides up to the watch with the old man, where there occurs another change - the concept of the
"tatarigami" is not longer in the film, in the sense that the people have NO IDEA what is coming out of the forest. As he's
being chased, Ashitaka is yelling at the beast stuff like "I do not know what you are, friend or demon, but please calm
yourself!" Again, this happens when the old woman magistrate walks to the beast, and says something like "I do not know what
you are, but I bow to you."
Ashitaka gets hurt in the arm again, and when he is in the hut with the old woman and the town nobles, she instead of in the
original version, says he must now cut his hair and goes into the symbolism of that, before he leaves. And as he leaves,
when the young girl (I cannot remember her name for the life of me) runs up to Ashitaka, she is now his sister (I'm assuming
so that American audiences can be more comfortable with his and San's relationship later on).
The wife in the town (in the pink shirt) is played by Jada Pinkett, and of course Lady Eboshi is played by Minnie Driver.
Both keep their respective accents, which seemed a little strange in the film: Pinket had a very black dialogue, and Driver
had a very English one, and it seemed a little strange considering they are supposed to all be from the same area. As San,
Claire Daines does farily well, especially when she first fights Eboshi (Daines really gets some good grunts out). But
Gillian Anderson, though she does TRY, just cannot get the gruff, animalistic voice that Akirhiro Miwa used for Moro, even
with help from echoey sound effects. Billy Bob Thornton plays Jiko, and is pretty funny at his lines, though I felt at times
he lent a little too MUCH humor to the film and in translation, it lost much of it's poetry.
Gaiman spoke on that at one of his panels, and how difficult it was to write for the film. I asked him if he'd be willign to
script any of the other Miyazaki translations, and he said, "It was an amazing process, it was a wonderful thing to be a prt
of, and I'd never do it again in my life." He spoke of the difficulty of balancing the idea of faithful translation, and
still sneaking in enough information to keep American audiences understanding the film. He also said one of the most
frustrating things he encountered, was "having a really great line in mind in four syllabyls, and the character only flaps
his mouth three times." And in that repect, Gaiman did a great job - this film did come out of the characters mouths even
better than the original Japanese did, which is a GREAT rarity compared to most dubbing jobs. He also talked abotu
translating not just the literal words, but concepts and impact, too. Such as when Jiko tastes his soup. Gaiman said "the
literal translation was, 'This soup tastes like water', which on a scale of insult, from one to ten, is a ten in Japanese
culture. But when you translate it into English, this soup tastes like water, it rates down at about a one. So I changed it
to, 'This tastes like donkey piss', and that put it back up at a ten again."
Keith David probably gave the best performance of the film as the second, white boar, whose name I cannot remember - he was
very deep and animal, and did well as the boar lost all his sense in flight toward the forest lake. And while basically
everyone did well enough, it just felt like Driver, Pinkett, Anderson & Thornton were ill-placed. The film as a whole did
dissapoint me, but then I thought, well the whole reason thsi si beign translated is for the regular American audience to
understand it, and if that means dumbing it down here, or putting more explanation, or sneaking in a couple more jokes, it's
fine. And if you go into the theaters with those expectations, you won't be dissapointed - just know that this is not the
direct translations we are used to, this is the AMERICAN VERSION of Mononoke, and reflects just that.
I asked Gaiman if he would ever work with Miyazaki in comics form, write a story for him to illustrate, and he kind of
stared at me as if I'd spouted utter nonsense, and said, "Would I ever work with Miyazaki on a comic? Of course...I'm not
STUPID." He was a very funny and interesting guy to listen to. He also told us of how he got involved, which is hilarious.
He said that Harvey Weinstein (chairman of Miramax) aquired Mononoke Hime and said, 'There is only one person to write the
adaptation of this film - Quentin Tarantino.' Of course, when he phoned Quentin, he declined and said he could never do it,
go get Neil Gaiman. So Weinstein did, and refusing to send Neil a copy of the tape, instead set up a full theater for him to
watch it in, subtitled, to get the whoel glory of the film, and Neil loved it. But what really clenched the deal was that
Weinstein said, "Look, we've got the film all ready, we've already started casting, and Leonardo DiCprio is almost CERTAIN
to play Ashitaka, he's already expressed an interest." And as soon as Maddy Gaiman (Neil's daughter) heard that, she looked
at her father and said, "Daddy, you're not even THINKING about turning this down, are you?" And so he signed on, even though
DiCaprio backed out and Crudup took over wonderfully.
And that's about it. If you'd like I could answer any more questions and/or send you a scan of the movie pass they gave out
(it has an image of the American poster, but it's a horribly photocpied pass they gave us and I'm not sure how it'd come
out). Also, I saw at the Bandai/Pioneer booth that a video of "The Dog of Flanders" (the TV show Miyazaki & Takahata briefly
worked on) is released, and though their footage is not included, it has that older Takahata look to it, like Heidi. And
also by Bandai/Pioneer, and more importantly, Panda Kopanda is being released here in the states, titled "Panda and
Friends." I was unsure form the preview whether it's going to be dubbed, since all they showed was clips from the shows,
along with that annyoing cute theme song, but I woudl assume dubbing is going to happen since it's a show for small
children. Also, they showed clips from both episodes, so it looks like they will be included on one tape. And very lastly,
Bandai/Pioneer also showed (only as a title) that "The Castle of Cagliostro" is being rereleased through them. I asked
whether or not the original dub would be used (which I quite liked, presonally) or a new one done, and the spokesman said
that they would like to do a new dub, but it all depends on how much time they have. -
Montag606: I think you are forgetting `Ghost in the shell'. Maybe you didn't like it, I don't know, but IMHO I thought it was on the same level as `Akira'. Did it surpass it? No, but it was nose to nose with it in every arena. Blah Blah: The reason you saw all the cliches, and thought it sucked was simple. This film - `Akira' - came out in the late 80's-early 90's (1988 I believe). So, since this came out 10 years before a film like `Matrix', you have to wonder what was more cliched. And where did all the cliches come from? `Akira'. Technically, `Akira' doesn't have cliches in it, it just started them. When something takes a new approach, and said approach becomes popular, it is then glommed onto by everyone else, and the originality of it is then called a cliche when someone views it years after it came out A good example: Will Smith turned down the role of Neo in `Matrix' because he didn't think the film would do well. After seeing the film, he then went to the writers of `The Mark' and ordered them to add `Matrix-like Fx scenes'. With it's (sort of) new way of live action anime storytelling, `Matrix' is starting cliches. A few years from now, and 20 films having borrowed it's Fx later, someone will watch `Matrix' for the first time and only notice the cliches.
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I am well aware of the time period in which Akira came out. I am not an idiot. Akira still came out after "Blade Runner", "Mad Max", "Heavy Metal", "Carrie", and a whole lot of other movies which utilized the elements of this film. SF cityscapes, postnuclear biker gangs, telekinesis, superintelligent kids, it all existed on film *before* Akira came out. That's not neccessarily a problem. The Matrix is mostly a string of ideas and images we've seen before, BUT it's all tied together with a satisfying narrative, a neat twist--the virtual reality is normal and sane, whereas the "real world" is a strange SF landscape--and used for the purpose of a clever theme: quantum mechanics meets Zen Buddhism. Akira contains some striking imagery--Tetsuo stopping a bullet in midair, the giant, creepy stuffed animals, the bizarre morphing climax--that could have done the same for this film. But in this case, it's not *earned*. The plot makes very little sense and is filled with elements that pop up with no foreshadowing, the characters aren't veyr sympathetic, and the theme is never clearly revealed. One aspect or the other--the cliched SF elements OR the incomprehensible plot--could be OK, but together they doom the movie to being nothing more than lovely eye candy. It bears repeating: LOTS of movies are made in Hollywood featuring terrific visuals and bad narratives, but they're usually derided by film geeks. Akira is not a more intelligent movie than we're used to seeing, it's just hiding the fact that it has very little to say. It's not that I don't see the value of a challenging movie, but you can only keep your audience in the dark for so long before you're in the realm of self-indulgence.
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I have seen Princess Mononoke subtitled and consider it the best animated film of the decade. I understand Gaiman's reasons for the translation changes he made and look forward to seeing it, despite the reviewer's opinion. I have been a fan of this medium (NOT genre) for thirteen years since I saw Robotech and have seen very few good or even decent dubs. Wings of Onneamise, Megazone 23 Part II and Patlabor the Movie 2 were pretty well done. Most of the rest I can only handle the subtitled versions and have lost faith in most dub jobs. As far as most of the trendy anime goes or rather anime that get groups of Americans interested, I tend to stay away from such shows. I thought Akira was just okay. Pokemon is an okay kids show, but not for me. Sailor Moon is too feminine for me. Evangelion is just a total mess. I understood Mononoke was going to be different because so much of the Japanese culture is in this movie. Gaiman's narration is required for us to understand something that is second nature to the Japanese. I believe the American version will be worht the wait as are all Studio Ghibli, Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahata projects. Yoshiaki Kawajiri (Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D 2), Shoji Kawamori (Macross Plus, Kenji's Spring) and Osamu Dezaki (Golgo 13, Black Jack) are also very talented directors worth watching.
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Porco Rosso is supposed to be another Ghibli film brought over by Buena Vista. Mononoke will be released in a dubbed version. But both will be on video. Im assuming Porco Rosso will have a sub version also. And dont forget, theyre also bringing over Laputa. Totoro and Grave of the Fireflies are already out, and if you have not seen them, do so now. Off of Ghibli, go get Neon Genesis. All of them.
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Anime is meant to be seen NOT READ, God dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last thing i want is to pay MORE for more work for my eyes. I have to sit with the fucking remote in my hand hitting rewind, rewind, rewind, because they won't shut up! Evangelion is the worst example of inacurate subbing, overcrowded subtitles, and just plain shit that i can think of right now. Good series, bad sub treatment. I swear, if i hear another disgusting, squeaky-cute japanese voice actress i'm gonna take a hostage!!! You wanna read get the manga! and another thing.... :::head explodes from overexertion:::
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