Cool News
John Williams' Return to Harry Potter is Officially a Possiblity!
Greetings! ScoreKeeper here piquing your curiosity and perhaps hopes with a story which neither confirms nor denies the impossibly cool return of John Williams to score the final installment of Harry Potter entitled, THE DEATHLY HALLOWS. I’m not terribly keen on reporting news of possibilities because, well let’s face it, it’s just not news until it happens. However, I’ve reported on it before and since there is such a high degree of interest regarding the Harry Potter franchise and the possible return of John Williams to score the final chapter(s) I figure it worthy to at least shed light on the progress of such possibility.
The Leaky Cauldron is reporting that Harry Potter producer, David Heyman, answered a recent question of Williams’ possible return to THE DEATHLY HALLOWS by stating…
“If we can make work , and that's a big if, for his schedule and ours then yes.”
He also noted that they have been in talks with the legendary composer.
News? Maybe, or maybe not. But the possibility is still cool.
To read the complete story including a transcript of Heyman’s exchange visit The-Leaky-Cauldron.org
ScoreKeeper!!!
“If we can make work , and that's a big if, for his schedule and ours then yes.”
ScoreKeeper!!!
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John Williams MUST score every movie ever made!!
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HOLY SHIT! We have something in common. I hate Harry Crapper too. Can anyone tell me seriously what a good HP movie is?
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I just hope John senses the darker tone that other composers have been able to tap into and create a ROARING Score that again reminds us of where we have been, and whee we are going with the Harry Potter Film Series.
"NEVER CALL ME A COWARD!!!!"
Snape -
Star Wars will always be his magnum opus and regardless of how you feel about the prequels, even the biggest douchebag hater has to admit Williams' work in them was spectacular. I wish he'd gone out on top having completed the saga, because let's face it: his music for Crystal Skull was dreadful. Limp and uninspired, and I hate to say that about a John Williams score. But hey, if he can redeem himself with Potter and go out strong that way, I'm all for it.
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Williams is awesome but it's probably not too important that he score the last movie. It's not like the Star Wars scores or anything like that. I can barely tell the Harry Potter movies apart anyway...
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All of his scores start to sound the same after awhile. I haven't bought a Williams soundtrack since ROTS.
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Zoe Saldana
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Zoe Saldana
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Sam Worthington
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Sam Worthington
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In Harry's Potter? I don't really remember any, just WHOOSHING sounds showing how fucking BADASS wands are.
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After Home Alone everything became a damn harp.
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Nicholas Hooper should win the Oscar in 2010.
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FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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He'd rather have that horrible composer from all his tv-movies, Nicholas Hooper, do the music for his films. I don't trust he'd like Williams to do it, bc he'd rather give his friend a job than allow the better artist to close out the series.
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His score for 'Prisoner of Azkaban' still remains the high point of this series.
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His music is always better than the movie, if you separate it from the film as subject. JW Rules !!
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im sorry. HOOK, CRUSADE, JP, HARRY POTTER, TERMINAL, CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, HOME ALONE, EPISODE 1-3, JFK, MUNICH (with EWB added), WITCHES OF EASTWICK, and FAR AND AWAY. all good thanks for adding your nonsense.
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It really does feel magical, and its a lush score with lots of leitmotifs and old-sounding instruments that give it this medieval quality.
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hey in 2078 they MIGHT remake the remake of star wars.
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...but it sure smells good!
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And his Potter scores are the best of the series. For some reason, they add a completely fresh and fantastic feel to the film. I hope this happens.
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Is he as good as his prime? No, but his "mediocre" work surpasses most others' best.
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made with one official background and the poster with the light pimpley crap all over it.
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Think about how many recent movies have a theme you actually remember. It's a lost art creating that memorable tune you instantly associate a movie or character with.
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I have always wondered what Williams would do with Trek.
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OK it seems like Nicholas Hooper has done a pretty good job on Half-Blood Prince, it sounds like the best non-Williams Harry Potter score, HOWEVER nothing has come near Williams's Prisoner of Azkaban score which IMO is probably his best 2000s score. It wasn't just the visuals, direction and acting that stepped up a gear for Prisoner it was Williams too. His original Philosopher's/Sorceror's Stone score was fun but little more than a phoned-in affair (of course, the producers should praise him every single day for his writing of the main theme, which you hear and instantly think of Potter). John Williams would give these last two movies that extra bite that they're gonna need. We really need stuff like Duel of the Fates for the end battle at Hogwarts.
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And I don't mean he won't anytime in the future, and I fear the day this great man dies, but I mean... he might do the music for the last HP flick, does this mean anything?
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There's so many JW tunes that you can hum or whistle. But yea, since Jurassic Park - what the hell has he done?
Can anyone hum any tunes he's written since then? Can you really hum Battle of the Heroes from EPIII? Reaalllllly??? ...it's all been just filler music since JP. -
Love JW more than any other composer but it's pretty obvious listening to his recent scores he's basically done with original/imaginative scores. Compare Crystal Skull to Raiders, Compare Sith to Empire. Done.
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come on. those are such obvious fakes.
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If you can't hum Battle of the Heroes you are a retard in my opinion!
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and the new Trek score was wack.
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were completely uninspiring to begin with. The first and third Potter films have somewhat unique footprints (the second he only composed some themes for I believe) and if he'd had the opportunity or desire to work on all the films I think there would have still been a good deal of variety. So, any new Williams Potter score is welcome to me. This rumor probably has no real basis in reality though.
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Duel of the Fates from Episode 1 was one of the best pieces of music in all 6 Stars Wars movies. Also, Williams did the score for the first three Harry Potter movies. His theme has become a pretty iconic part of the whole series. It's appropriate that he would return to the series to finish it off.
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Although just to clarify, I think that as a whole the music of the Star Wars prequels was disappointing. There were moments of greatness, but a lot of it was forgettable.
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but he Spielberg/Lucas work has always been the greatest
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I really hope that he comes back to the series. I have been pretty disappointed withy the last 2 entries music-wise (and pretty much in every other way, too). POA was soo good and so old skool Williams-ish (a ton of themes and action music that wasn't just music going fast)—I'd love to revisit that in the last movies. It'd give me something to stave off suicide for.
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...I don't know. Never read any of em' as I'm well past the age of 'Gay.'
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The John Williams of the 70s and 80s. Over a period of about 10 years he created some of the most iconic film music of the 20th century.
JAWS, Star Wars, Close Encounters, Superman, Imperial March, Yoda's Theme, Raiders March, ET... even the 1984 Summer Games, Born of the 4th of July and JFK show up in PBS promos from time to time.
Then he seemed to go out of style or into semi retirement. It will me nice to see his music bookend the Harry Potter series. If that ends up being his last hora, I'll be good with that.
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Jul 14, 2009 5:23:57 PM CDT
my 5 year can hum Duel of the Fates and Battle of the Heroes
by six demon bag
so yeah its pretty hummable...but really no film since Batman is really hummable...Williams has at least 6 themes.
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Jul 14, 2009 5:29:27 PM CDT
FUCK YES POA SCORE GAVE ME A LARGE BONER
by supercowbell5thecowbellhasspoken
POA MUSIC FTW!!
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for this to be posted.. really no reason at all.
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Jul 14, 2009 5:57:26 PM CDT
And Scream 4 is in the works with the Arquette/Cox clan on board
by heckles
Times are tough.
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Would rather see John Barry return to the 007 franchise!... And James Horner, to Star Trek!
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This site sure is lucky to have the top 2% of elite moviegoers here to let the rest of us fools know what common tripe these films are. If only we had the brains to have real taste.
As for John Williams, compare his Harry Potter scores, particularly PoA, to the last two Star Wars, and it's obvious he was more inspired by HP. -
I love JW more than any other composer, but what else does he have going on that would take priority over the final HP films? And if he does agree to take the job, he better not phone it in like he did for Indy 4.
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"officially a possibility" is a bit of a stretch, considering the quote. It's officially a possibility Nick Cave is going to score Shrek 4, too.
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POA is one of Williams' finest works. For some reason these composers of HP don't want to use Hedwig's Theme.
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I'd love to have Williams back. It would be cool if he brought back the themes from the earlier films along side the themes that were created for the later films. This could be interesting, and might actually provide some inspiration for Williams.
To me he will always be the greatest film scorer. I just think that his scores over the past 10 years have not been on the same level of his early 70s and 80s work.
Jaws, Close Encounters, Star Wars, ET, Raiders - all masterpieces. The man has produced some truly iconic music. His Harry Potter theme is probably the last time I can remember specific cues from his music, though. It' would be great to see him come back and kill it. The final battle should be EPIC. -
that's all i have to say.
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It's epic, sweeping, but, for some reason, there's a hint of sadness to it that I can't understand why. But it's a big emotional beat, that his music really propels. They use it again when Sirus escapes on the Hippogriff, and it's way cool.
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I think its the best score of the entire series...and I HOPE that he comes back for Deathly Hallows.....something I was always disappointed with after POA was that in the score of that Film, Williams had pretty much developed a theme for the Character of Harry Potter, and it sounded amazing...but subsequent films paid no attention to it..and I would love to hear it return
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Azkaban was amazing. It felt like he was really finding a unique sound for the Potterverse. And then he left, and we got that awful rock band in Goblet.
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your linkin park album misses you.
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Jul 14, 2009 8:21:31 PM CDT
Anyone who thinks Williams hasn't had a good score in years...
by d.vader
Obviously hasn't been paying attention. Battle of the Heroes IS an instant classic. Epic.
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"Harry in Winter" is an absolutely beautiful piece. Seriously, check it out. Five stars on my iPod.
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The music when Harry is talking to Lupin on the bridge is called Window to the Past or something near that. That and Buckbeak takes flight are amazing. I read something how Hooper didn't want to use Hedwig's Theme or other pieces from what Williams established to try and separate the films or some nonesense. Bad move.
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That was a terrible decision, as evidenced by his terrible score for pt V. Window to the Past, Buckbeak's Flight, Double Trouble, Hagrid the Professor, Secrets of the Castle... all brilliant.
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I included the last two tracks because Secrets of the Castle has that fun, jaunty, flighty tune that plays as the camera follows the bird that flies around the castle. I included Hagrid the Professor bc the way Williams twisted the Double Trouble tune, and the instruments he used, makes it sound like something that would be played during a banquet in some old giant castle party during medieval times. Maybe something at a Renaissance Fair. It feels very very old.
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Since we're getting into specifics, I was also a really big fan of "Lumos!" on the Azkaban soundtrack (which can also be heard at the beginning of the film), which is basically a different arrangement of Hedwig's Theme. There's an old, scratchy record quality to it that suits the tone of the film nicely.
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Lumos! is very good. I also enjoy that Forward to Time Past (a play on Back to the Future) has that constant ticking of the time tuner playing throughout, giving it a sense of urgency. Its like Williams found out how to convey the sense of time travel musically. Aunt Marge's Waltz is also a lot of fun.
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This is precisely what this series needs to go out with a bang as opposed to a whimper, at least when it comes to the scores of the final two films. John Willliams is THE BEST and it's too damn bad that he had to skip #'s 4, 5 and 6. I hope that the maestro is back for the final two...it would be magnificent indeed! John Williams is a modern day wizard...when it comes to films scores anyway!
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The guy doing the films now is f'king amazing!!
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quotes the film at the EXACT part "i have failed you , anakin. i have failed you." brought a teat to my eye.
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a teat to the eye :)
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...probably LOVE listening to Harry Gregson-Williams, Steve Jablonsky and Gustavo Santolala.Don't you IDIOTS realize that Williams is one of the ONLY "Silver Age" composers we have left? Goldsmith and Bernstein are dead, Morricone and Barry are essentially retired...once Williams is gone, film music will be TOTALLY backrupt. Cherish the man while we still have him. Harry Potter wil likely be the last franchise series to be blessed with the Williams magic and potentially inspiring kids to delve into film music appreciation. Right now Williams is #2900 in a 3000-copy pressing, and when he's gone, he's GONE.
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Shitburgers.
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No one captures the grandeur or scope of a film like Williams. he's a living American legend and every person on in this country recognizes at least one of his themes.
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KOTCS is FUCKING SPOT on. The score to that movie sucked as much as the movie itself, which is no mean feat. Williams is to busy cashing in on all the Starwars, jaws and superman royalty checks to really give a shit any more. Kinda like the berg and lucass. He just does not care.
PS: The EP 3 score sucked. And so did the movie. -
FUCK Avatar. I've seen it before, when it was called Final Fantasy: The spirits within.
Let me reitirat so there is no misunderstanding. FUCK Avatar, and your eyeballs. -
bah, typo-s. And really, who gives a toss about the score for a harry potter movie? Emotionally stunted nerd virgins. Thats who.
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It had at least THREE memorable themes (Mutt's theme, Irina's theme, the wavering, three-note Skull theme), plus plenty of Williams' trademark scherzoes and busy woodwind writing. It's no Raiders or Temple Of Doom, but it's a damn fine score, and easilly one of the better elements of the film (which I *did* like, warts and all). Every other element of the movie screamed "20 years later!" (the blown-out Kaminski cinematography, the overreliance on CGI effects, Ford's gimpy gait and weathered mug), but Williams' music was the only element of the film that hadn't aged at all. Name another adventure movie in the past decade that had as many memorable themes and bracing action cues. Edward Shearmur's Sky Captain & The World Of Tomorrow actually recalled Williams' sense of "fun" adventure surprisingly well, with a bevy of hummable themes and great action cues, but the film flopped. There's also James Horner's two Zorro scores. But aside from those...name another "Williams-esque" action/adventure score to even come withing shouting distance of the Real Deal. Nowadays we have Hans Zimmer holding down a shrill, dissonant note on a keyboard for five minutes, and that's supposed to be the Joker's "theme".
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Jul 14, 2009 11:02:56 PM CDT
Mutt's theme was just about the bright spot in that score
by lockesbrokenleg
It was a really fun theme, but I swear I only heard it twice in the movie. Most of the music was for the skull
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Jul 14, 2009 11:07:25 PM CDT
Quick, hum the theme to Transformers? Dark Knight? Watchmen?
by nasty in the pasty
I rest my case.
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I can recall absolutely nothing memorable in that score. And trust me, I was trying. And for the record, I adore Williams' work in the prequels: Anakins Theme, Fates, Across the Stars, Heroes...plus the new versions of the classic themes; brilliant work.
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Both had great scores. i own both CD's.
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So, he hasn't cranked out hummable themes in the last ten years- is that really it? Fuck, people, think about what you're saying. Name ANY hummable themes from major genre pictures of the last ten years? Seriously, what's your criteria here?
The sad fact is that some people are comparing Williams to himself. And I, for one, am glad that he's evolved his style in movies like MUNICH and WAR OF THE WORLDS. Unlike some others (James Horner), Williams is not a one-trick leitmotif pony. -
Awarding the Oscar for Best Original Score to Michael Gore for FAME in 1980 over Williams' EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. If there was ever a score that deserved Oscar Gold, it's EMPIRE- simply the greatest total composition of all-time.
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Jul 14, 2009 11:39:25 PM CDT
Williams has written exactly ONE score since *2005*
by nasty in the pasty
I'm horribly paranoid that he's getting too old or ill to keep up with today's films. Aside from Spielbergo's TinTin movie, what else does Williams have lined up? He used to do two movies a year like clockwork, but since 2005, unless it's Lucas or Spielberg, Williams appears to be all but retired. :( Honestly, aside from Alexandre Desplat and maybe Michael Giacchino, there's hardly ANYONE working today who can write a good theme. Benjamin Button actually had me humming the end title music as I left the theater. I can't remember the last time I did that.
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Jul 14, 2009 11:41:51 PM CDT
Williams didn't win for Empire because he already won fo Star Wa
by nasty in the pasty
Even though Empire was arguably a better score (as was Superman), the Academy doesn't like nominating sequel scores (although Godfather II's score actualy WON in 1974). Honestly, are Fame and Midnight Express better scores than Empire Strikes Back or Superman?!
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FIX THAT SHIT, HARRY!!!
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Fuck the politics, how many times has Meryl Streep won that fucking Oscar?
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obviously you've never listened to james newton howards. that guy is WOW
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John Williams is one of my heroes. For me, growing up in the 70's and 80's, he helped make going to the movies become a great thrill ride. Star Wars, Indy, Superman, E.T., what can I say about them that hasn't already been said... The love theme for SW Episode II "Across The Stars" still gives me chills.
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except for the themes recycled from the previous films.
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Aside from the Joker theme, isn't most of the music reused?
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Fuck off and die already. Please. Wretched cunt.
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Is right. What's with the Williams-bashing? OK, not every score of his is great, but I can list about 20 straight off that are. It would be pretty amazing to have him back - and I actually think that Hooper's score is OK. The Azkaban score, though, is incredible. As Cuaron writes in the liner notes, how he manages to put big band jazz, medieval, and modern music into a single cohesive score beats me!
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Um...off the top of my head, Lord of the Rings is the only non-Williams series of movies that I think is instantly recognisable and hummable.
There are certainly others that I recognise, like the Batman Begins/The Dark Knight scores (the latter does reuse a lot of music from the former).
Star Trek came out 2 months ago and the only thing I remember from that score is the end credits music which was the theme from the tv show.
The Matrix (10 years old this year) has some recognisable cues though they are hardly hummable.
As for Williams himself over the last 10 years (The Phantom Menace is also 10 years old this year), well there's the central themes from the prequels (Duel of the Fates, Across the Stars and Battle of the Heroes), Harry Potter of course, Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal...these are instantly recognisable.
I know a lot of people don't like the Revenge of the Sith score, but if you listen to the complete score and not just what's on the soundtrack album, the way he bridges the style of the prequels with that of the originals is amazing.
There's going to be a Superman reboot in the next few years and if there is one thing I'd like to keep from the Reeve franchise it's the Superman March (and maybe The Planet Krypton too) and combine it with the theme from the old Fleischer cartoons.
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I've never seen a Harry Potter film at the cinema. I've always rented instead. There is a screening at my local cinema in a couple of hours. So help me decide.
Should I go see it or wait for rental? -
They really are incredible scores. I know they have less hummable tunes than the OT (Empire Strikes Back is the winner in those stakes - listen to the end credits, it's amazing!) but the romance tune from Ep 2, and the two battle pieces from Eps 1 ad 3 are wonderful pieces of film music. And the way he weaved in Princess Leia's theme at the end of Ep 3 - that had me in tears, it really connected the film to seeing Ep 4 back in 1977.
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They really are incredible scores. I know they have less hummable tunes than the OT (Empire Strikes Back is the winner in those stakes - listen to the end credits, it's amazing!) but the romance tune from Ep 2, and the two battle pieces from Eps 1 ad 3 are wonderful pieces of film music. And the way he weaved in Princess Leia's theme at the end of Ep 3 - that had me in tears, it really connected the film to seeing Ep 4 back in 1977.
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I'd say go for it. I think this one sounds like a comedy, so seeing it with a packed audience of fans who love the characters and are likely to laugh when funny shit happens, that's always going to be more fun than a rental. Comedies work great in a packed cinema, right?
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I'm pretty sure the theme to "Saving Private Ryan" actually made me tear up the first time I heard it. I can hum the main theme to "Minority Report" any day of the week, and it's quite beautiful. And the main themes for "The Terminal" and "Catch Me If You Can" are playful and extremely fun. You want dramatic goodness? Try "Angela's Ashes", which is beautifully sad. The same can be said of "A.I." The Star Wars stuff is fantastic despite the wholly mediocre films themselves. Lastly, "Prisoner of Azkaban" is one of the best scores in the last 15 years period, not just the best of Williams.
What I've generally found of Williams is that most of the time he produces his greatest work for the best art on the screen. Azkaban is a prime example. -
I saw GOBLET OF FIRE in a packed cinema and everyone was laughing at the Yule Ball stuff - it was a great communal experience and I'm sure it's why I like that film much more than most people round these parts.
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I think that Spielberg has pretty much asked Williams to stay away from hummable tunes since Jurassic. I mean, the man can come up with tunes like anything, as we can see from Prisoner of Azkaban. But I sense that Spielberg felt that the likes of War of the Worlds, Minority Report, etc, would be more distinct from his Raiders days if he held back on the tunesyness.
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sucks to be you buddy!
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another brillant score.
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I really liked his score. And I love Williams. Williams is better, of course, but at least Hooper wasn't trying to imitage Williams.
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I've been hoping he'd be back for the final installment. It needs to be epic, and he knows epic!
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for any one of his scores...you know that it belongs to that film...some dipshit claimed that TF and TDK were great scores--well you can drop those scores into any generic action film because they are generic themes and scores. PIRATES, NEW BATMAN, THE ROCK, TF, ARMAGEDDON. they all sound the same. you can keep those new score..i will have my williams.
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because he changes and adapts to the film he is composing unlike modern composers who already have snippets assembled and just mash and synthesizze everything together. zimmer is the biggest one of them all. he doesnt change his stuff up...he just makes the score and jams into the film to make it fit.
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...it is necessary. DO NOT HIRE JOHN WILLIAMS UNLESS YOU ARE PREPARED TO LET HIM FINISH WHAT HE STARTED.
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What's with the insult? I never went after you. I happen to think TDK, Pirates, TF, and Armageddon have great themes. Deal with it.
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Really? You guys are using the fact whether his scores are hummable to determine if they're good?
His two best scores of the 90s (imo) were for "Schindler's List" and "Saving Private Ryan."
He does pop scores better than anyone, but his 'Schindler's' score proved he could kick serious ass with a traditional classical score as well.
He's had some clunkers, but he is still the master. -
sorry didnt mean to be harsh. out of line.
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for every year since 1975 that he has done a score, he has been nominated. maybe once he didnt.
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but they ALL sound the same--tell me Gone in 60 seconds, transformers, PIRATES, the ROCK, armageddon, even GLADIATOR (zimmer stuff at least), crimson tide, (new) BATMAN and bad boys dont sound the same. i can easily interchange any of those scores in those movies
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great score
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Are you high? Order of the Phoenix's score was god-awful! There was nothing magical at ALL about that score, and in fact, the only bit of music that worked at all in the film was Umbridge's theme. The rest of it was just a variation of the exact same tempo and beat, whether it was the Weasley escape music or the (absolutely terrible) flying theme through London, or the right music. It was all so cringe-inducing.
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it's not really fair to lump zimmer in with the jablonsky, harry gregson williams, trevor rabin crowd, as he has shown himself to be much more varied.the dark knight score really is a cut above the rest of that genre. the things zimmer did with the joker theme were instantly iconic. i would also say gladiator was solid, and crimson tide really kicked off that whole style in the mainstream in the first place. that was a great score at the time, it has just been ripped off endlessly since then. i think he can definitely phone it in (see the Pirates movies), but when he's really pushed he does great work.
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Or was it James Newton Howard's?
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For the love of God let this happen. If there's one thing these last films need it's Williams. This current composer doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and his music sounds like a fucking
"Beef" commercial. This is good. -
Home Alone
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Have you listened to much James Newton Howard or Hans Zimmer? You can almost instantly pick out which aspects of the Batman movies are from which composer. They have very different styles.
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But the Joker drone is so... not bombastic, that I'm willing to think it was more James Newton Howard's contribution than Zimmer's. Either way, without evidence toward either, I'm not ready to attribute it to one composer over the other.
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i call that lazy not iconic.
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Six Demon Bag, would you rather have had modern Danny Elfman (not '89 Elfman) do it the way he has done his scores lately? It would have been awful in the context of Chris Nolan's version of Batman. The Joker's theme was great. It doesn't need to be complex to be iconic. And D. Vader, that's true about the Joker theme not being the bombastic Zimmer, but Nolan and Zimmer have talked a lot (in interviews, on the bonus features, etc) about trading ideas about instrumentation for what became the Joker's theme. I'm not really going to say that this one piece is 100% Zimmer, because that defies the idea of collaboration, but it seems to be MORE of a Zimmer like piece than what James Newton Howard typically does. The whole opening bank heist screams Zimmer, whether it really was primarily him or not, and that's where you're first introduced to the Joker's music.
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay James Newton Howard's contributions. I think the you can hear both of those guys all over the Dark Knight (and Batman Begins) score. That's one reason why I like it so much.
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other than the batman theme and joker theme, i cant tell any of his music apart..he and his proteges are practically a music factory, sitting around writing snippets of music, before they even have the film to look at to see motifs and themes. he just throws them in there and says this is the JOKER. THIS IS JACK SPARROW. its pretty cookie cutter to me. he rips off himself and others, as does James Horner.
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rain man, gladiator, lion king, crimson tide, matchstick men, batman, frost/nixon... sorry but to say that it all sounds the same is selling zimmer short. he has far more range than most of his proteges. look at his list of credits and then look at the list for trevor rabin, steve jablonsky, and harry gregson williams. those guys do almost exclusively generic action scores. zimmer does not.again, i think he can phone it in sometimes, like in the pirates movies, but he has done some very memorable and varied scores.
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this sound ANYTHING like gladiator or pirates? not so much.
http://tinyurl.com/kv85ho -
yes i agree that his early stuff varies more. but around the time after LION KING, he did CRIMSON TIDE and created MEDIA VENTURES, which is fucking Ground Zero to all these mediocre scores..this is where they began, they ghost wrote for Zimmer, he and he took credit for their work. this school of mediocrity occasionally will come up with a theme now and then but the underscoring and the bombast and the synthesizing is all there and its all interchangeable. next time you crack your scores out, look at the liners and all the arranging and co-composing that OTHER people do on Zimmer's scores. he has fashioned an army of "composers" to sound just like him that HE himself and his contributions (which were good in the late 80s-early 90s) have been marginalized.
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Pirates 1 and 2 scores were fairly derivative and safe (albeit very entertaining), but I gotta give Zimmer praise for his World's End score. There are a ton of new themes in it, from quiet and stirring to breathless and action packed. It really is a very dynamic score. It's one of my favorites of the last decade. Although Williams still has it beat with Prisoner of Azkaban, of course. All these Williams bashers seem to ignore that one.
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Jul 15, 2009 1:16:04 PM CDT
And I can't think of another theme like Jack Sparrow's
by mattmanreturns
from Dead Man's Chest. Although, that was the only piece of music on that soundtrack I can say that of.
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but you're still talking as though every single score that zimmer does and/or is credited with sounds the same even now. they don't. matchstick men doesn't sound anything like his bombastic action scores. neither does frost/nixon. spanglish doesn't. the weather man doesn't, etc, etc. these are movies made within the past 5 years. not the early 90s. every score these days is going to have multiple people working on it. i think michael giaccino has done some of the most interesting big film scores recently, and his scores all have multiple music editors, additional arrangers, etc. it's the nature of the business. yeah, zimmer gets credited for doing stuff like the rock, which had about a half dozen composers working on it and still sounded generic and processed to hell. that doesn't mean he still doesn't do great, unique work still now. it's not all one-trick action filler.
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but the rest..mediocre shit that couldve easily been ripped from the rock or con air.
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he didnt "compose" the first film, which kinda proves my point that they (composers) are interchangeable
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matchstick men sounds just like the rock? frost/nixon could have been ripped from con air? all just mediocre and interchangeable? please. his action stuff can get repetitive, but that doesn't mean he hasn't done great work since the early 90s. he's still a terrific composer.
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i'll be honest with you, i DO like some of his work..i love BACKDRAFT, TRUE ROMANCE, LION KING, CRIMSON TIDE, RAIN MAN, and the main theme to pearl harbor among others, but these are all derivative of each other. you can hear shades of rain man in lion king and true romance. themes of lion king in crimson tide. its like each film he does has shades of themes from his previous score. im probably being a little unfair of his ENTIRE career, but his action scores ARE derivative, and maybe his softer side is more at home for him (the holiday and spanglish, pearl harbor)i just dont like the whole mentality of the whole MEDIA VENTURES thing..no way in hell would SILVER AGE composers found a school of copycats. it lessens HIS achievements. there's a reason why he hasnt been noticed by OSCAR since gladiator.
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A post by a reliable FSM contributor who interviewed Hooper yesterday, left on the JWFAN forum:
I spoke with Nicholas Hooper yesterday (the interview got delayed), and I can assure all of you that he is a very humble and kind man.
He explained a little why he chose to take the series in a totally different musical direction. He testified of his admiration of John Williams. (I won't go into more detail, because I want everyone to subscribe to FSM Online!)
The one juicy tidbit, which I also mentioned in the interminable "Williams may score seventh Potter film" thread, is that Hooper is bowing out of the series altogether. He told me that the films have put too great a strain on his family life, and that he always thought that a certain composer "whose name I know well" should finish out the series, "since he started it."
Have fun with this news. -
i agree that i'm not really a fan of what media ventures has turned out. the scores in most of the big bay/bruckheimer-esque action movies do sound interchangeable these days.i also think you're right that he has shades of previous scores evident in his work. i mean lord knows the rock and crimson tide could practically change places and you wouldn't know the difference during the movie. (crimson tide is a more interesting score by a mile, but you get the point).That said, that problem afflicts a lot of composers. The Patriot sounds like it fell out of the Star Wars prequels in certain parts, and Saving Private Ryan in others. James Horner is notoriously repetitive in that respect. Even Giaccino, who I really like, practically rewrote The Incredibles when he did Speed Racer. A lot of Jerry Goldsmith's later work became very repetitive and uninspiring. Not dimishing what he did over his career, but he put out some repetitive filler from the late 80s on (Rudy and LA Confidential aside).
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for his films. The Patriot has that unbelievably awesome solo violin theme with the acoustic guitar (which launches into an epic violin duet). Not to mention the crazy and authentic piccolo duets.
Likewise, Saving Private Ryan has numerous lavish brass and string cues that differentiate it from The Patriot let alone more distinct films and Williams scores.
Williams really is a different kettle of fish to today's breed of film composers, and to ignore that is mainly to hold him up against his own standards, which is simply not fair. -
some here might be, but i like the guy (much of the star wars prequels aside). i was just defending hans zimmer, because i think he gets a lot of flack for helping to kickstart the big bombastic action score we get so often today, when his best stuff sounds nothing like it and always gets ignored.
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you go in the cage? cage go in the water? shark in the water. our shark.
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seriously, the best line in the film.this might be a close second--"hey, guys. you guys doing okay over there?"
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That music when Harry and Dumbledore transported outside of the cave was absolutely fantastic. As good as anything Williams has done for the series.
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"You guys okay over deah?"
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but his score for the patriot was pretty damn cool.
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then he starts screaming...that is such a great reveal of the shark BTW, you see it just under the surface..
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That and that long shot of the attack on the raft kid- all you get are glimpses of fins moving around, flipping over. But that shot where he takes the boater down.... soooooooo damn creepy.
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that and when you see the shark swim underneath the ORCA when they are trying to tag it...
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Damnit anyways!!!!! "Ummm i think you are going to ignore this particular problem until it swims up and bites you on the ass" Hooper, damn classic character. "Im not gonna stand here and argue with a man who's lining up to be a hot lunch"
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25...3 tons of him
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I'm not talkin' about pleasure boatin' or day sailin'. I'm talkin' about workin' for a livin'. I'm talkin' about sharkin'.
Well I'm not talkin' about hookin' some poor dog fish or sand shark. I'm talkin' about findin' a Great White.
You've got city boy hands, Hooper. You been countin' money all your life.
I don't need this working-class-hero crap!You're not gonna do this on the boat, are ya? -
Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte. We'd just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in 12 minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half-hour. Tiger. 13-footer. You know how you know that in the water, Chief? You can tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know, was that our bomb mission was so secret, no distress signal had been sent. They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin', so we formed ourselves into tight groups. It was sorta like you see in the calendars, you know the infantry squares in the old calendars like the Battle of Waterloo and the idea was the shark come to the nearest man, that man he starts poundin' and hollerin' and sometimes that shark he go away... but sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. And the thing about a shark is he's got lifeless eyes. Black eyes. Like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, he doesn't even seem to be livin'... until he bites ya, and those black eyes roll over white and then... ah then you hear that terrible high-pitched screamin'. The ocean turns red, and despite all your poundin' and your hollerin' those sharks come in and... they rip you to pieces. You know by the end of that first dawn, lost a hundred men. I don't know how many sharks, maybe a thousand. I do know how many men, they averaged six an hour. Thursday mornin', Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Boatswain's mate. I thought he was asleep. I reached over to wake him up. He bobbed up, down in the water, he was like a kinda top. Upended. Well, he'd been bitten in half below the waist. At noon on the fifth day, a Lockheed Ventura swung in low and he spotted us, a young pilot, lot younger than Mr. Hooper here, anyway he spotted us and a few hours later a big ol' fat PBY come down and started to pick us up. You know that was the time I was most frightened. Waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a lifejacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water. 316 men come out, the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb
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Jul 15, 2009 11:14:22 PM CDT
The only good Media Ventures composer is John Powell
by nasty in the pasty
Because he can write a THEME.
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I think I told you guys that before though.
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I'll catch this bird for you but it aint gonna be easy. Bad fish. Not like going down to the pond chasin bluegills and tommycods!
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Very interesting. And disturbing. Iron Man is pretty funny.
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the imagery and the monologue is superb. just everything about this film is great. to think what it was supposed to have been..thank god
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sounded like Star Wars. Or Catch Me If You Can sounded like Star Wars. Or Schindler's List sounded like Star Wars. Or Munich sounded like Star Wars. Or Angela's Ashes sounded like Star Wars. Or Prisoner of Azkaban sounded like Star Wars. Or sounded like Star Wars. Or The Terminal sounded like Star Wars. Or Heartbeeps sounded like Star Wars. Or Stanley & Iris sounded like Star Wars. Or............
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on a man like Williams. That must make your tiny, meaningless lives seem a shred better for at least a moment or two before deflating back into the banality that is your existence. I'd wish you death but really, living those pathetic, pointless lives where the only respite for your misery is to slam insanely talented people (and make no mistake, Williams is such a man) is a much more poetic and satisfying punishment. But since such hatred can only fuel you assholes for so long, here are some other points to discuss: Martin Luther King Jr. was overrated as a speaker; Tolkien was a hack; Beethoven really let his shit slip in later years; Marlon Brando’s talent was all in his obesity. Doesn’t it feel good to bash talented people? Doesn’t it make you so much bigger, you miserable, little half-men?
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you have that passive aggressive shit talking down to a science dont ya, little boy?
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really. i know there will be complaints that there were no whistleable tunes, but dammit he conjured up a creepiness. i thought it was great stuff!
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"conjured up creepiness"? "great stuff"? Yawn. Bring the pro back.
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John Williams' AZKABAN score is great. His 'Hedwig's Theme' is great. But parts of the first two movies had me reaching for the sick bucket. The music when they were eating in the great hall reminded me of that food scene in Hook - one of the most sickly, disgusting scenes in all film. It was all so relentlessly loud, so horribly 'hey KIDS! we're having a great time, aren't we? AREN'T WE????!?!!?!!'
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