July 7, 2009, 11:15 p.m. CST
I've tried to get into Dollhouse, I really have, but for whatever reason it just hasn't engaged me enough to keep coming back. However, I'd love to see this episode if for no other reason than to check out Dr. Horrible's unrequited love in a less wholesome role. Maybe I need to put aside a weekend and watch more than one episode back to back?
July 7, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST
July 7, 2009, 11:27 p.m. CST
attention the way Serenity/Firefly did. Of course, I didn't like Buffy/Angel either.
July 7, 2009, 11:38 p.m. CST
Is this a crossover with "The Guild"?
July 7, 2009, 11:48 p.m. CST
the first few episodes aren't that great but the show is worth watching, episode 6 onwards to the finale are for the most part very good, overall I thought it was better than the first season of Buffy
July 8, 2009, 12:14 a.m. CST
She's one of my favorite actresses, hardly ever a performance I didn't like, but that clip didn't do a thing for me. <p> I really wish the show had been canceled. So many talented people and it's still just bad.
July 8, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST
if you don't like it, keep your whining off of the TB. it's already going into territory we've never seen before on broadcast TV, can't wait till next season.
July 8, 2009, 12:29 a.m. CST
Forget where I read that, but I'll find out in about 2 weeks!
July 8, 2009, 1:37 a.m. CST
firefly fan, gave this show several eps, really did not like it. honest question, what territory do you see the show entering that's never been seen on tv? i'm willing to give it another go.
July 8, 2009, 2:10 a.m. CST
The future of sci fi is beyond bleak. It's sad really how far down the shit hole Sci Fi on TV in movies has fallen.
July 8, 2009, 2:43 a.m. CST
im not watching just a clip and certainly not buying the fuckin dvd
July 8, 2009, 3:07 a.m. CST
But I'm sure it will be, soon enough. <p> Eliza was asking for user input on her twitter account some time back. Wanted to know what type of doll the public wanted to see her as next season. <p> Overwhelming responses included the word "Lesbian" in some form. Either her followers on twitter are predominantly skeevy pervs who couldn't give two shits about her recent trip to Uganda... or the general public really wants to see Eliza as a lesbian. <p> Just a little tidbit I found interesting.
July 8, 2009, 3:25 a.m. CST
They might (there was some indication of this towards the end of the season) be moving towards the areas of the technological equivalent of the soul. <p> In SF, it's long been done. But not yet in SF on TV. The idea that you can take someones identity and store it, edit it, download it again... leads to immortality for those rich enough to afford it. But how do you trust the people with the machine? You store a copy of your mindstate (or your "soul") with the company. They edit it, to make you more compliant with their goals. Then replace your mindstate with the edited one. <p> The company that has access to such technology could conceivably take over the world in a matter of years. All the richest most powerful people in the world, being replaced with perfect copies who are loyal to the Dollhouse company. Bring them in with the promise of immortality. Send them out again under your control. Then once you have power and influence, you could also do.. political power. Religious power. Etc.. All the power structures in the world could come under your control very easily. And you could do it all while pretending to be a black ops high-tech brothel, so those in power but not yet under your control, never seek to reign you in. <p> Has that sort of storyline has been done in TV before? I don't think so. But then, I can't guarantee that Dollhouse is moving in that direction either. So maybe it's new territory. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's just Joe 90 with boobs.
July 8, 2009, 3:34 a.m. CST
by Random Task
..is my main issue with Dollhouse. I like it. Watch it. But if it has one major failing its that there is an emotional void at its heart in the form of Echo. We can never empathise with any of the characters either. They are all in a morally grey area that makes it almost impossible to like them. I think that is the shows main failing.
July 8, 2009, 3:36 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Kidding. <P> Is Dollhouse sci-fi? I'm just wondering cause some people say Lost is. I'd say they have sci-fi elements but are more drama/speculative fiction. Fringe is more sci-fi and yet I'd say that's more a procedural investigation show. Can't really think of any decent sci-fi on TV at the moment. Certainly not Torchwood. And Doctor Who always was and is a kids show. Maybe when Stargate comes back - although that's more an adventure show. Just how do we define sci-fi? Is it sci-fi if it's at a con?
July 8, 2009, 4:12 a.m. CST
Or that super duper cool show The Real World on MTV? You know, the only two things worth talking about on these boards?
July 8, 2009, 6:59 a.m. CST
by Bouncy X
its that cute redhead slayerette from Buffy's last season and i think that redhead dude from Freddy Vs. Jason and the first Transformers.
July 8, 2009, 9:19 a.m. CST
<p>Why would either Dollhouse and/or Fringe contribute to a general decline of sci-fi on TV? I think that Dollhouse raises very interesting questions about individuality, the presence of a soul, and morality--even though Dollhouse handled such issues as poorly as an acne-riddled 17 year old virgin handling a hot, expensive escort service girl.</p> <p>And while Fringe may be riddled with ridiculous pseudo-science, the overall plot is fairly entertaining, and the whole "there are other worlds than these" bit is very intriguing. There's a whole lot of classic sci-fi stuff that Fringe can take advantage of, the way that X-Files did.</p> <p>I'm not sure I see how either of these shows are contributing to bad sci-fi on TV. Granted, its no BSG S1/S2, but then again, what is?</p>
July 8, 2009, 9:33 a.m. CST
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, take Whedon's length, Dollhouse haters....
July 8, 2009, 10:12 a.m. CST
But I have to admit the stand-alone episodes bored me to tears. The episodes that focus on the overall plot, however, are stellar. <p> I kind of want to see Epitaph One but only if it's goign to be considered canon in the long run. Is it? Or is just going to muddle a new direction the show will be heading next season?
July 8, 2009, 10:12 a.m. CST
in relation to the tiny clip. Where did her scars go?? <p> Matt Roush (TV Guide) said of Epitaph One: "Essential for fans. Would have worked as a finale; now feels like a blueprint." Between that and Mo Ryan's tease, I'm not only looking forward to the ep but for season 2. I get the impression that they opened up a larger world to explore. <p> Dollhouse premire date also got pushed back from Sept.18 to Sept 25. So instead of showing a week earlier, it's now going head to head with Ghost Whiperer and Medium, iirc.
July 8, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST
A little too much Olivia in the tank shit, but the plot is intriguing, the creepiness and gore is fantastic, the humor is spot on, and I love Walter. I thin kthe show has a lot of potential to be special. I'm excited for another season.
July 8, 2009, 10:17 a.m. CST
I think you could consider E1 canon, but not in a linear way. I think it might be like a flashforward...
July 8, 2009, 10:21 a.m. CST
July 8, 2009, 10:22 a.m. CST
The line "Lets blow this bitch back to the Bush years" seems to imply its set in the future, although as for how far, who knows? <p><p> Dollhouse really got ALOT better as it went on, after ep 6 the only duff one was the 'dead woman' episode, then again the finale was a bit of a misfire as well. But the rest were pretty solid. I agree with the TBer above, still better than the 1st season of Buffy. <p><p> And for those complaining about 'grey area' characters, thats kinda the point. If you want simple good versus bad stuff, watch CSI. If they expand this out in s2 to be more of a ensemble, and have a running arc as well, it has the potential to be great.
July 8, 2009, 11:35 a.m. CST
It's actually better when the Douch is not in the episode..still not going to watch it since they canceled SCC...
July 8, 2009, 11:39 a.m. CST
We had two president's named Bush. Is it possible she could have been referring to the older one? Maybe this was set to take place during the Clinton years. I don't know I haven't watched the clip at work yet.<br><br>I would like to meet some more of the dolls/actives though next season. Victor, Sierra, and Echo are okay but I want to meet a few more of the nameless walking around. And i'm not talking about secret dolls like November or Whiskey......I just want to see a few other actives and learn more about how these people got in there.
July 8, 2009, 11:50 a.m. CST
July 8, 2009, 12:11 p.m. CST
churn out a show so awful?
July 8, 2009, 12:16 p.m. CST
thanks, makes sense. i think the later point about the emotional void at the center of the show is part of what makes it hard to watch, though.
July 8, 2009, 12:24 p.m. CST
Felicity Day, the girl from "The Guild," became well-known when she she worked for Whedon during the final season of Buffy; she was one of the new slayers. Whedon just loves to stick with the same actors. I believe he also used her in the Dr. Horrible thing.
July 8, 2009, 12:28 p.m. CST
according to an Ausiello tweet.
July 8, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST
Whedon really excels at (a) creating strange mythologies that somehow still allow him to tell relevant, interesting, humanistic stories and (b) building great characters. Given that only a single season has passed, I think he's pulled off (a) pretty well. Unfortunately, the difficulty Whedon faces with Dollhouse is that it's very hard to do (b) given the premise of a show where the characters change personality every week. I think that's why many viewers feel an "emotional void," as you guys put it. <br><br> Fortunately, he's such a good story-teller, I think he will eventually pull it off. The non-dolls are starting to be fleshed out, and even the dolls are getting flashbacks and showing some signs of internal conflict.
July 8, 2009, 12:33 p.m. CST
Boo for getting my hopes up, Herc.
July 8, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST
Why this ep was not broadcast? Was it just a scheduling issue with the FOX programming department or was there something else to it?
July 8, 2009, 12:40 p.m. CST
Is prostitution as TV entertainment, and you've already got HBO and "Hung" jumping on the bandwagon.
July 8, 2009, 1:08 p.m. CST
July 8, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST
Jesus. That was some of the lamest dialogue ever. Nice to see the red headed guy from Titus getting work still, I loved him as Dave.
July 8, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST
Don't hit the tab key LOL. Interesting clip that is. I wonder how those soldiers got into the Dollhouse and why they wonder who Whiskey is? Could be dream I guess. If not it's before Alpha's escape. Maybe the Dollhouse has been raided before or this isn't the same one that we know. There are Dollhouses all over the world after all. It does look pretty good whatever it is.
July 8, 2009, 1:28 p.m. CST
I would have watched it. I ain't gonna track down the DVD, I don't know anyone who will actually buy it, do people still buy DVDs? Show was not good enough for a second viewing experience. It did get better toward the end, hopes for a better second season. More Docheku the better I say.
July 8, 2009, 1:31 p.m. CST
At 23 seconds the one guy says that line after the other guy asks if Whiskey killed their friend. This seems to suggest they know something about the Dolls. <br> <br> Wasn't this episode supposed to be the original pilot or finale? I thought that's what I read.
July 8, 2009, 2:32 p.m. CST
Think you could flesh that out a little?
July 8, 2009, 2:35 p.m. CST
This was NOT the original pilot, but it is related to the fact that the original pilot wasn't aired. The DVD contract was for 13 episodes, but they only aired 12 because the original pilot was never aired, due to the fact that they had cannibalized it for other episodes. So they needed a 13th episode, even though FOX was only airing 12. This 13th episode was shot for the studio (not the network) at the same time as 'Omega,' the season finale. Which is why the regular cast isn't as prominent. As far as the season goes, it's more of an epilogue. For Buffy fans, think how 'Primeval' was the traditional climactic season finale of season 4, but 'Restless' (the dream episode) was more of an epilogue, that explored themes and issues that would be emerge in the coming seasons. <p>And yes, this show is exploring themes of identity I've never seen on another television show. And while I watched Fringe last season, I wasn't really excited about it until that boffo season finale. So, Fringe and Dollhouse show that good, intelligent scifi is doing just fine on network television, thank you very much.
July 8, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST
Is Friday, 4-6 PM <br> <br> LOST is early Sat. I might have to fuckin camp out there early. Damn.
July 8, 2009, 2:39 p.m. CST
July 8, 2009, 2:46 p.m. CST
this could totally be in the future. those guys could be gornment people, who are guarding the crime scene, and wiskey is just fucked up in the head and decides she has to go back.
July 8, 2009, 2:51 p.m. CST
The deal was for 13 episodes total. Fox Broadcasting included the unaired pilot episode, which parts were used in later episodes, as part of the deal. However, to meet international agreements, Fox Studio had to shoot an addtional episode (E1), which is why it was shot for cheaper using the production crew from "24". <p> You'd think that each division would know what the other was doing, but you'd be wrong. <p> Now that the premiere date is pushed back, they are thinking of airing all of Season 2's 13 eps concurrently again. Which is probably for the best as it will increase the likely hood of them showing all the episodes like they did for season 1 before they think of canceling it.
July 8, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST
Starting & stopping posting at work = fail. And yes, unaired pilot is on the dvd.
July 8, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST
The one holding the gun in that clip? Rock on.
July 8, 2009, 3:25 p.m. CST
It is. Felicia Day. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the new face of Sears.
July 8, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST
was the hot redheaded potential slayer that you hardly ever saw in the last season of Buffy as well I think.
July 8, 2009, 5:10 p.m. CST
designed by that nerd that has a weird thing for dr. saunders. <p> then again, my theories always turn out to be very much wrong.
July 8, 2009, 6:28 p.m. CST
oops wrong dewd
July 8, 2009, 6:32 p.m. CST
I reckon the original stories about this ep being set 30 years in the future are true and this scene with Whiskey signifies something to do with the Dollhouse's true purpose. That maybe the first stage is trying to make imprints of souls and the next is then clones or something. This is a new Whiskey that was made in the 30 years since. Or not, haven't got a fucking clue really
July 8, 2009, 7 p.m. CST
Dead giveaway this is set in the future. I'M SOLD!
July 8, 2009, 7:08 p.m. CST
July 8, 2009, 8:06 p.m. CST
You know, there was another President Bush. Seeing as Whiskey doesn't have her scars, I'm going to go with them referring to Bush senior here, with a bit of an in-joke to the audience thrown in.
July 8, 2009, 9:25 p.m. CST
is also the creator/writer/star of The Guild, the online series about a mmorpg guild which is surprisingly high quality, and provided the inspiration for Whedon to do Dr.Horrible. Everyone should check it out.
July 8, 2009, 9:40 p.m. CST
who urge each other to commit murder rather than act according to protocols of some sort? <P> Duh, let's blow her back to the Nixon years. <P> Duh, lemme tink on dat.
July 9, 2009, 1:47 a.m. CST
she'll give you a wicked paper cut
July 9, 2009, 1:49 a.m. CST
*accidentally* spill some lemon juice on it
July 9, 2009, 1:52 a.m. CST
demoness from heck
July 9, 2009, 1:52 a.m. CST
July 9, 2009, 2:38 a.m. CST
she ate my dingo
July 9, 2009, 2:56 a.m. CST
She deserves a better show than that Dollhouse crap.
July 9, 2009, 3:12 a.m. CST
July 9, 2009, 5:13 a.m. CST
I still have one dingo left
July 9, 2009, 9:13 a.m. CST
I liked "Dollhouse." A lot. It was far better than "Fringe," in my opinion, because I honestly cared about the characters.<p> I thought "Dollhouse" was compelling, asked far-reaching questions, and its big moments were quite moving. Plus, Eliza Dushku delivered some fantastic acting performances. She really brought her "A" game (that I wasn't sure she had) to this show. It's been great to see.<p> I'll be buying the DVDs when they arrive.
July 9, 2009, 11:16 a.m. CST
Joss - I love you. I love you more than most. But honestly, your political statements are just...cheesy. If you insist on making them, can't you at least make them a bit more organic? That "We have a black President" line in the season finale ruined a perfectly great episode with schmaltz.
July 9, 2009, 3:05 p.m. CST
This show is pure shit, and didn't deserve renewal at all. Bring back Terminator SCC!!!
July 9, 2009, 6:20 p.m. CST
and unlike the real Terminator, it won't be back. And Dollhouse is better, of course <p><p> Over here in the UK, they're showing Dollhouse on Uk SciFi Channel, we just got Needs (ep 8) this week. They've confirmed they WILL be showing ep 13 at the end of the run in August. First Pushing Daisies and now this, it seems the Uk is the place to watch the good TV you Americans can't be bothered with
July 9, 2009, 7:30 p.m. CST
Why not just air it in the second season?
July 10, 2009, 5:21 p.m. CST
by Olsen Twins_Fan
but not on purpose. Which makes it total shit instead of crazy genius.
July 10, 2009, 7:10 p.m. CST
by Henry Fool
Every time Dewitt has a conversation with her clientele about a new job, it reminds me of how people who wanted to hire the A-Team could always find them. But the damn government never had a clue in hell where they were hiding.<br /> <br /> It can be pretty ridiculous but the show is entertaining as hell and actually got pretty damn good in it's second half. I look forward to the second season though I'm not getting my hopes up about a third. I just don't want Joss to vanish from television for another five years. He spins a good yarn like no other. Nighttime drama needs good yarns.
July 11, 2009, 4:16 a.m. CST
The "spy in the Dollhouse" sub-plot explained how the Dollhouse is able to operate in a roundabout way: in the pilot, it's stated that Ballard is being kept on the Dollhouse case because some unnamed higher-up is insisting that he not be removed from it. Eventually he makes contact with a "spy" in the Dollhouse through a corrupted imprint in Echo that tells him to stop investigating where the Dollhouse is, and start figuring out what their purpose is. Then it's revealed that the spy is an NSA operative, and he's been feeding Ballard the information specifically to keep him from uncovering the Dollhouse. It's all rather clever; the Dollhouse's government contacts used an emotionally unstable FBI agent to make the hunt for the Dollhouse look like a joke, and also used his skills to gather their own intel on what Rossum plans to do with the technology (which, apparently, we'll find out in Epitaph One). It paints an interesting picture of Rossum and the US Gov't having a sort of tenuous alliance, with neither really fully in control of the other.
July 11, 2009, 5:12 a.m. CST
of ep 13. I'm getting a total Alien vibe what with the darkness and flashlights. Also a Buffy has to goes back to the Initative with Spike vibe. <p> http://tr.im/rQHL <p> Also, the title of the premiere is called "Vows". It doesn't take place after the "We have to find Alpha" but a few months later.
July 11, 2009, 5:21 a.m. CST
http://twitpic.com/9tkfq <p> The ladies from Reaper (taking over for Craft & Fain, who're going back to Shawn Ryan for "Lie To Mew"), Tim Minear's feet and Joss with a gun. <p> He will shoot you very hard.
July 11, 2009, 6:23 a.m. CST
It's like profilers who are cats. <p> "TOONCES; NO!!!!"
July 20, 2009, 6:23 a.m. CST
Just watched it. It's pretty awesome.