With the success of our recent concerts at The Roxy Theater and California Plaza, I think its time my band, The Battlestar Galactica Orchestra, gets its own website. Over the past few years, I’ve received frequent and generous offers from BSG fans around the world, volunteering to pitch in with web design services. Now the time is right and I need YOUR help. I’m challenging you loyal fans to a web design contest. The BSG Orchestra needs a site that can provide media from previous concerts, information on upcoming shows, updates on potential international performances in 2010, a forum for fans, and details on the possible LIVE CONCERT DVD AND ALBUM in the works for release later this year (shhhhhhhh! More about that soon!). Designers will be given a collection of approved images and a basic site-map concept, but I’m looking for a creative and attractive layout. The deadline for submitting your designs is 11:59pm PT, Wednesday July 1st. A winner and two runners-up will be announced by Friday July 3.If you'll notice, there is a mention there of an upcoming live concert DVD and album which has been a topic many of you have emailed asking me about. For more information including details about the requested site, the prize package offered to the winner, and contact information, please visit Bear McCreary's blog.
June 26, 2009, 6:45 p.m. CST
by Gigol-o Joe
June 26, 2009, 6:47 p.m. CST
by Gigol-o Joe
R.I.P. MJ you talented mofo. Very relevant...
June 26, 2009, 6:57 p.m. CST
by Flim Springfield
June 26, 2009, 7:01 p.m. CST
by jimmy rabbitte
June 26, 2009, 7:18 p.m. CST
'cause we're tight sods. You'll get tickets but we won't even pay for your travel expenses. Jeez!
June 26, 2009, 7:19 p.m. CST
June 26, 2009, 7:20 p.m. CST
June 26, 2009, 7:44 p.m. CST
I don't. Not in a million years.
June 26, 2009, 7:49 p.m. CST
Seriously... Bear McCraken can't afford to have his webpage professional designed? What a joke. Maybe Ron Moore should ask him to do some work for free, and then IF he likes it, Ron can give him a ticket to an event that you can just by for a few dollars. PAY PROFESSIONALS...
June 26, 2009, 7:51 p.m. CST
And I'm gunning for this shit you cunny mutherfuckerS$$$$!
June 26, 2009, 7:51 p.m. CST
Ah, the ol' design contest. How do you get people to work for free? Call it a "contest". Well, that's my two cents, I gotta go, I'm holding a "Who can fix my car the best" contest for local mechanics. Should be good.
June 26, 2009, 8:16 p.m. CST
Designers just cut+paste endlessly. Right now it's about buying old magazines from the 1970's and ripping them off. Grow a sack.
June 26, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST
can do thousands of dollars worth of work for free
June 26, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST
How right you are. I'm overwhelmed by the prowess of your design intellect.
June 26, 2009, 8:42 p.m. CST
I'm a professional graphic web designer and have been for 4 years. I've done work for international brands, bands, artists..Im not name dropping here, thats not my point..My point in this is its a CAREER..Its a job and PROFESSION people that are good at it take serioulsy..You honestly expect ANY designer worth their rep. to do a ton of free work for you? You get the shitty designer you deserve for this contest..go to the local community college and put up a notice with little tear aways on it and have some brain dead monkey fall for this fucking joke...or I dunno..find someone on Craigslist thats too stupid and sucks bad enough to the point that they realize how insulting you're actually being..."oooo crappy no name band contest"...get a life and a clue..teamneedle hit it RIGHT on the head..give me a bunch of shit for free and then I'll judge your music..hows that.
June 26, 2009, 9:09 p.m. CST
I'll go and give him 200 hours worth of work so he can give me a ticket to some lame-ass concert. Oh, but my work will be seen by literally DOZENS of Battlestar Galactica Orchestra fans who are most likely just as cheap and lame as this asshole. Go drown yourself in a bucket of dicks you cockfag!
June 26, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Obviously this "contest" is directed toward fans of the BSG concerts who want to design a website for something they like. Some people have fun with that sort of thing, and how much work you put in is up to you. If you're a pro then it's assumed you don't have time for this. This is a chance to not only see what you can create (eg. could you be the first to use flash-animation tastefully?) but then also have an instant audience for it, who just happen to all be fans of the same thing you are. It's an obvious ploy to get a website made, but it's also obviously going to work so why logically would they go the professional route? Let the BSG-loving web-designers have their fun. <P> Working for free is how pretty much any film composer gets their first gigs. You don't expect money, you just want to have a good time doing it. If you can't have fun with it then don't do it.
June 26, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST
Lol, I had a Geocities site. Everyone did until they put huge ads all over them. Fuck that.
June 26, 2009, 10:07 p.m. CST
A guy basically tried to entice me to do an album cover for him by turning it into a contest, so that instead of paying me to do the work I could enter a contest and possibly "win" the right to do the work. The prize was to do the work. Oh great let me sign up multiple times to increase my chances. I still laugh when I think about how dumb that guy was.
June 26, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST
I've been reading Harry so long that I have memories of trying to rip him off from more than ten years ago. It's weird, I think Harry has become less insightful and informative about movies over the years. Either that or I've closed the gap to the point where I'm beyond him now (in terms of film appreciation and sensible critique of movies).
June 26, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST
lets all move on. Stargate > BSG + Caprica
June 26, 2009, 10:33 p.m. CST
June 26, 2009, 10:37 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Colbert gets people to send in their work for his green-screen challenge. In the end you're working for free, providing entertainment that Colbert & crew don't have to do, helping them fill in air-time, and you get an audience, perhaps notoriety, your name out there, and a prize of some sort. If you're willing to spend your time on this for that possible outcome you're obviously doing it because you enjoy it. Remember fun?
June 26, 2009, 10:59 p.m. CST
by Rubiks Doob
You ask for portfolios, then you hire a web designer. Fuck you and your 'contest' right in the horseface.
June 26, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST
June 26, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST
You serious? Do you work for this guy (for free)? You really can't tell the difference?
June 26, 2009, 11:28 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
I'm just interested in all the anger here. It seems this "contest" is done for fans of the BSG concerts. If web-designers among them would have fun making a website for something they like, no harm no foul. Why do you have such a problem with it? What really is the difference between this and Colbert's green-screen challenge?
June 26, 2009, 11:30 p.m. CST
hey guys, a new contest here, where you are required to write a 2 page essay about Ralph Emerson and why he thinks friends with benefits is so great. you got 2 days, winner will have the essay posted on my famous blog: www.dioxholster-stargate.blogspot.com
June 26, 2009, 11:50 p.m. CST
...this entire talkback make me laugh. Anyone else ever have a client tell you, "*Gulp* Can I make payments?" LMAO
June 26, 2009, 11:55 p.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 12:07 a.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
and if that's where you stand you won't make a website for this. I'm saying this "contest" isn't for artists with that ideal, or businesses, or people who want to be paid for their work. This is like fanfic. It's by the fans for the fans. Have fun.
June 27, 2009, 12:50 a.m. CST
This kind of thing is very frustrating for designers/artists/illustrators who are trying to make a living doing what they do. People like this devalue the industry, the more it happens, the worse it gets. People have this weird misconception that we want to work for free, or for merchandise, or my favourite, "it's really great free exposure." Here's a good example of what we have to deal with constantly, from a different point of view: http://tinyurl.com/rxvuxc
June 27, 2009, 1:27 a.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 1:55 a.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 2:21 a.m. CST
by Talkbacker with no name
right? If people want to put the work in for free good luck to them, but the choosen design SHOULD be paid if used.
June 27, 2009, 2:30 a.m. CST
wash, rinse, repeat.
June 27, 2009, 7:18 a.m. CST
is Tom Green. I'm convinced. They're both the same age, same height, same weight, and a baby named OJ wearing a GAYBY shirt? I hope they don't shoot the cannon in my bum. And shoot poo all over the place. Poo Poo Hee Hee Hee Hee IT'S HIM.
June 27, 2009, 7:19 a.m. CST
my first comment ever for AICN and it's in the wrong place. Perfect.
June 27, 2009, 7:49 a.m. CST
I understand where all of the designers are coming from. It is kind of crappy when someone asks you to do free work. I am a working designer/illustrator/photographer so I get that, I do. But realistically, designing a website for a musician is a little different then designing one for a plumber. Regardless of what type of artist you are, you have some base feeling of how you want your work presented and although you may not know how to communicate that to a visual style, you do know it when you see it. To hire a professional designer/agency to build such a design language for you seems silly when you have plenty of fans who totally understand what you are going for and are chomping at the bit to prove their ability. Its not about ego, its not about being cheap, its about giving the people who support him a chance to show what they can do when given the opportunity. Its not like the guy is calling a bunch of professional web designers and asking them to submit entries. Bear posted the thing on his blog which means he is just asking fans who want to submit designs to do so. He didn't put an ad in Variety, SciFi isn't airing commercials and he didn't ask people to do something they don't want to do. Either they want to take a crack at it or not. No hard feelings either way. I fail to see how this is any different then when Trent Reznor gave the base GarageBand tracks for "The Hand That Feeds" a few years back and asked for fan remixes. Its pretty much the same thing. In both cases, fans were given raw files and the opportunity to play with fun, prizes and recognition as a reward. If you don't want to enter, fine. Dont. The contest clearly isnt for you. But don't badmouth the guy for giving those who do love his work the opportunity to be a part of it.
June 27, 2009, 8:08 a.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 9:03 a.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 9:09 a.m. CST
by alice 13
lol. you get what you paid for.
June 27, 2009, 10:55 a.m. CST
F*CK OFF A$$HOLES! You're way of doing business is exploitation. You're the reason I have to lower my rates. Plain and simple.
June 27, 2009, 11:09 a.m. CST
There should be a talkback contest where the one who posts the most irrationally hateful post for the sake of getting attention wins a psychiatric evaluation to determine where the root of their issues comes from!
June 27, 2009, 11:15 a.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
I nominate lockesbrokenleg.
June 27, 2009, 12:52 p.m. CST
Professional designers, like me, get screwed by jerks with photoshop and a lynda.com subscription who think they can build websites and contests like this make them think they'll be the next Computer Arts cover artist. Wrap it in whatever covering you want, it's still spec work and it's against the guidelines of the Guild that professional designers belong to.
June 27, 2009, 1:02 p.m. CST
You nailed it... That video is so on point. I just started doing this stuff on the side hoping to make some more income, and yeah that video is amazingly accurate. It's no cakewalk to design a website these days. Sure you got more GUI's than ever like Dreamweaver and Flash and Fireworks and plug ins like Gaia, but it's still work god damn it! Shit it takes me 3 weeks to design a new site sometimes. I'd never enter this contest because I'd be wasting my life for pennies.
June 27, 2009, 1:33 p.m. CST
Is that people that clearly don't work (or work very little) are faux insulted about the notion of working for free (though that isn't what this is). ROFL.
June 27, 2009, 2:32 p.m. CST
I've been designing professionally for 12 years and I see nothing wrong with this as it is something a career designer would never touch. For someone learning the ropes and trying to develop a portfolio.. it's perfectly fine. Go to it interns!
June 27, 2009, 2:55 p.m. CST
June 27, 2009, 2:58 p.m. CST
@Tangent - Realistically, working for a musician is no different for working for any other potential client. Most clients, artistic or otherwise, has an expectation of what they want. If Bear has a vision, it's his responsibility to communicate that to a designer and it is the responsibility of the designer to discuss the site with Bear to get a sense of what his vision is. Designers are not the pair of hands brought in to execute someone else's ideas. Design is a process. It is not for us to try to guess at it and the person who guesses right is "awarded" DVDs? DVD's won't put roofs over out head or food on our tables. Bear could and should ask for designers to submit a portfolio of their past work first. If he sees something he likes then he and that designer should work out some sort of payment (and none of this "we'll put your name on my site, think of the exposure you'll get!" crap either. If that really works, then car dealerships should give us cars that have their dealership names on the trunk lid). http://tinyurl.com/ yq9bkx "I will solve your problem for you. And you will pay me. And you don’t have to use the solution. If you want options, go talk to other people. But I’ll solve the problem for you the best way I know how. And you can use it or not – that’s up to you. You are the client. But you pay me." - Paul Rand to Steve Jobs Try this tonight; call up all your local restaurants and ask each of them to cook you a steak, but that you'll only pay for the one you like the best. What Trent did was totally different. He put those remixes out there for free. Anyone can become a member of his site and download those remixes (as well as those he cut in the studio) at no charge. Bear wouldn't compose an entire score for a TV series or a movie w/o getting paid, why should he ask for us to do the same? Google tried this just last week and http://tinyurl.com/ m7oghw @Wrecks - Um, that's what student internships are for. This just lowers the water for everybody. From aiga.org: "Designers risk being taken advantage of as some clients may see this as a way to get free work; it also diminishes the true economic value of the contribution designers make toward client’s objectives." "There are legal risks for both parties should aspects of intellectual property, trademark and trade-dress infringements become a factor."
June 27, 2009, 3:11 p.m. CST
by alice 13
its bad enough when people dont expect to pay professional rates for professional talent. for one artist to try to pull this on another artist is some serious disrespect. i guess i shouldnt be expected to buy any of his music. <p>which i wont from now on since its not very professional.
June 27, 2009, 4:07 p.m. CST
this is total bullshit from a scam artist. The amount of work one would have to put into this to design what this fuckwad is asking for is ridiculous. And he wants it all done for free. Why doesn't he start taking people up on all these generous offers he supposedly gets instead of panhandling here?
June 27, 2009, 4:28 p.m. CST
For the most part, I agree with you. But again, I would like to point out, hes asking people for submissions. No one HAS to do it. As Wrecks pointed out, this is a perfect opportunity for students/new designers. He isn't writing people asking them to take a crack at it, he simply posted on his blog for the small group of hardcore fans who would be interested in the opportunity. I dont think he is expecting a bunch of seasoned professionals from across the web to come out of the woodwork and bust ass trying to win this thing. He has a pretty open dialogue with the fan base and most of them are always asking for a chance to get involved. Hell, he asked everyone to share their pictures and video of the California Plaza concert even though he had a photographer on site working for him. As for likening this to asking him to score a movie or television series for free, Im sure he did when he first started. Very few professional designers/artists/musicians/etc get work showing school projects as they rarely show ones ability to collaborate so its not an irregular idea to take a few free/low paying gigs near the end of ones schooling in order to establish a decent portfolio. I know I did, and it payed off because then I could say "I did this for a client. Its a real functional design that met the real clients real needs." So again, I think for anyone to assume that he was gunning for someone on a level like yourself is a bit unfair. He didnt solicit designers, he solicited fans and only those who visit his blog on a regular basis. I'm a fan and a designer but Im not going to submit a design because I don't want to spend the time doing a bunch of free work. But for those who are willing/able/hungry to, this is a great opportunity. And elwood_p_dud, he didnt panhandle here. He posted this on his blog. Scorekeeper posted it here because he thought people would be interested in the opportunity.
June 27, 2009, 4:36 p.m. CST
he's panhandling for a free website you cocksucker. Just because you enjoy taking it in the ass on a daily basis because you're too fucking stupid to know the difference doesn't mean you should advocate such stupidity in the open. He's hoping to take advantage of some douche bag such as yourself who's not smart enough to ask for money.
June 27, 2009, 4:40 p.m. CST
about it smacks of panhandling. Christ are you fucking illiterate? It sounds like a load of made up bull shit. It's nearly as desperate and bad as that idiot letter "Hugh Jackman" sent in about the reshoots on Wolverine.
June 27, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST
If you want to be taken seriously, act like you deserve it. Everyone here has, for the most part, been discussing this in a rational way. Going off the handle and making personal attacks against me is far from rational and incredibly rude. If you don't agree with me, fine. Clearly SmackSermon doesn't, but he at least tried to make a valid and intelligent argument for why he feels the way he does and I respect his opinion for that reason. Many people say the problem with this board is the constant bickering and arguing. It isn't. The problem is people like you who can't debate the topic in a rational way and instead turn to personal attacks because you are too juvenile to voice yourself any other way. Grow up, yeah?
June 27, 2009, 5:10 p.m. CST
He does it all with synthesizer and drums.
June 27, 2009, 5:17 p.m. CST
Actually, that isnt true. In concert (at least the California Plaza show) he had three taiko drums, one drum kit, a viola, two violins, a cello, three guitars, a bass, a woodwind player and himself on keyboards which, granted, did have some sampled sound. But those samples were primarily used as textures and not as the body of the music. On the show, he would use these same musicians along with a full 35+ person orchestra.
June 27, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST
Sure, throw a fan design contest but FUCKING pay them at least a few bucks for the work. This doesn't sound like a quick job by any means.
June 28, 2009, 6:11 a.m. CST
Actually, I wouldn't enter this contest either. It's insulting to all designers, be they working or students. We were taught to never do spec work in school. A successful website requires a lot of time to meet with the client, do research, design, and revise to come up with the best solution for the client. I tried leaving a comment on his blog with a link to a page on NoSpec! about how design contests are frowned upon in the industry and affects the client negatively. He opted to reject the comment on his site. By insulting designers everywhere, the design gods deem that his website will look like these: http://www.webpagesthatsuck.com/worst-web-sites-of-2008.html
June 28, 2009, 10:04 a.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Really? Have you seen your posts?
June 28, 2009, 3:12 p.m. CST
I've seen your posts. All you do is whine and bitch. You act like you fucking own the site. Go outside and get some sun you Damn prick! Asshole
June 28, 2009, 4:04 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
All I do is "whine and bitch"? Prove it. Show me. And how do I act like I "fucking own the site"? How is that accusation even logical?<P>So, tell me, did you ever get a job? Or do you still waste hour upon hour posting pointless one-liners here?
June 28, 2009, 4:06 p.m. CST
While something like this could be a good opportunity for a beginner looking to create a portfolio. Please remember, free work most times usually just leads to more free work.
June 28, 2009, 4:58 p.m. CST
I don't have to tell you my life story. Go back to that porn site you came from and fuck off.
June 28, 2009, 5:15 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Wow. That's a whopper of a comeback, lockes!
June 28, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST
Um, this thread is not about you. Go write a fucking blog or something douchebag. The idiots on Twitter miss you.
June 28, 2009, 6:05 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
Quote: "...this thread is not about you."<P>Well, you got that right and I never said it was. What's your point?<P>Speaking of Twitter, your posts on AICN read like a 19 year old who has just discovered Twitter. In fact, one could make the case that you use AICN Talkback like it's your own Twitter account. Just look at your posts. They're utterly pointless.<P>Loser.
June 28, 2009, 6:22 p.m. CST
he knows everything. How is that railer park you're living in these days?
June 28, 2009, 6:24 p.m. CST
by Mr. Nice Gaius
I dare you to write more than 150 characters. I dare you to write two paragraphs. Hell, I'd be shocked if you could even write one.
June 28, 2009, 7:05 p.m. CST
Harry you had a great idea where people had more latitude in posting comments. Everyone is taking this shit too far. Time to turn off talkbacks or start moderating.
June 28, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
Neither is writing music for a film, or creating an album, or making a portfolio of paintings or creative photos, or creating video games, or any other artistic endeavor intended for a purpose. <P> Are the artists doing all that stuff for free, in their own time, for their own reasons insulting themselves? Are they devaluing the industries that do what they do for money? It's an interesting point-of-view, but as one of these artists who's not only studied music but also Cubase and ProTools, and a bunch of instrumental and effects plugins, I'll continue to create music for films and other media for free until I don't. And I'm pretty sure what I'm doing isn't a cakewalk.
June 28, 2009, 10:33 p.m. CST
Right there with you buddy. It feels like the few talkbacks I have read are built primarily of angry bitter people voicing their outrage over those actually doing things. Its one thing to voice displeasure over the work being discussed but another thing when its all built on petty personal attacks on those who have made it their life's work to entertain us. I don't understand why people find it absolutely necessary to make personal attacks on those in the entertainment industry and each other when actual discussion could be taking place that help us better our understanding of the things we love.
June 28, 2009, 11:05 p.m. CST
you're such an emotional introverted little cunt. And Amy Chasing, I'm quite sure what little money he's giving you to come in here and yap on about how giving out free work, would be better spent paying a professional designer to do his fucking website.
June 28, 2009, 11:12 p.m. CST
Thanks for proving my point. You are what's wrong with AICN.
June 28, 2009, 11:13 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
we can only go by what people write here. I have written my opinion and I think I did so politely. You have a reasonable opinion to argue against mine, I'm genuinely interested to hear it. You want to be insulting and make stuff up, understand you're not damaging my credibility.
June 29, 2009, 2:14 a.m. CST
public to create a website? What kind of news is that?
June 29, 2009, 3:39 a.m. CST
It isn't news. Thats why Bear posted it on his personal blog on his website. He cant be held responsible for what AICN decides to put on their site so don't blame him for it.
June 29, 2009, 5:13 a.m. CST
June 29, 2009, 11:38 a.m. CST
Yes, when I was a newbie web designer, I did work for free. However, this is a "CONTEST." Meaning, this guy will have a pool of designs specifically made for his site to choose from. This is vastly different than asking people to APPLY for this gig and he picks ONE designer to do ONE design for free. In this way, this "contest" is exploitative.
June 29, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST
Stop handing your money over to these talentless money-grubbing don't know how to finish up a series with dignity or quality cunts. Moore should die a penniless asshole!
June 29, 2009, 9:08 p.m. CST
by Amy Chasing
By your rationale then all "contests" that ask for people to submit work for a particular purpose (such as the countless "write a soundtrack for this movie" competitions out there) are all exploitative, because the people running the contest end up having a similar pool of work just for them to choose from. <P> If that's truely how you feel then I guess these things are not for you (and many in this talkback). I don't agree and continue to enter my music into soundtrack competitions. And that's for stuff not even associated with a brand I love (like BSG), which is why this website "contest" is IMHO kinda cool for BSG-music fans. You don't like it, leave it alone, no one will think less of you. But don't think less of the people who enter and don't say this is damaging the web-design industry... unless you can explain how I'm damaging the film-music industry.
June 30, 2009, 7:03 a.m. CST
June 30, 2009, 9:49 a.m. CST
how good at web designing can you possibly be? Seriously, you guys sound like a chef complaining that the bbq cook-off next door is stealing away costumers. If something like this forces you to lower your rates, they were probably too high to begin with.
June 30, 2009, 10:27 a.m. CST
Right back atcha buddy. Way to voice an opinion of some sort. How about next time you keep it to yourself unless you are actually going to explain your statement?