Cool News
J.J. Abrams’ STAR TREK Officially Biggest STAR TREK Ever!!
I am – Hercules!!
A rare box office story here at Ain’t It Cool, in celebration of the news that “Star Trek” is not only back, it is now bigger than it’s been in its four-decade-plus history!
Numbers:
BOX OFFICE
(domestic grosses in millions)
$43.2 Nemesis (2002)
$52.2 The Final Frontier (1989)
$70.1 Insurrection (1998)
$74.8 The Undiscovered Country (1991)
$75.6 Generations (1994)
$76.4 The Search For Spock (1984)
$79.9 The Wrath of Khan (1982)
$82.2 The Motion Picture (1979)
$92.0 First Contact (1996)
$109.7 The Voyage Home (1986)
$240.8 Star Trek (2009)*
*as of Monday
Yes, this year’s “Trek” took eight days (!) to exceed the 1986 “Trek’s” whale-sized franchise-record gross. But the figures above don’t tell the whole story:
BOX OFFICE
ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION
(domestic grosses in millions;
per westegg.com)
$51.4 Nemesis (2002)
$89.5 The Final Frontier (1989)
$92.2 Insurrection (1998)
$108.4 Generations (1994)
$116.8 The Undiscovered Country (1991)
$149.4 First Contact (1996)
$156.4 The Search for Spock (1984)
$176.0 The Wrath of Khan (1982)
$212.7 The Voyage Home (1986)
$240.7 The Motion Picture (1979)
$240.8 Star Trek (2009)*
*as of Monday
Impressively, the new “Trek” needed only 46 days to exceed the number of tickets sold by 1979’s “Trek.” The ’79 “Trek” had more than a year of cinema play to draw on, including the kind of repeat business you never see today.
Remember that when “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” was released in 1979 the home video industry barely existed. Less than one percent of U.S. households owned VCRs. Less than eight percent of U.S. households were wired for cable TV. The lag between theatrical release and a film’s debut on VHS and Betamax was more than a year. Thirty years ago a hit movie could linger in cinemas far beyond a year, because that’s where all the money was.
Today most of the money is in DVD and Blu-ray, which is why major movies like “Star Trek” are now obliged to vanish from cinemas in the space of three months. A little known fact is that dramatically shortened cinema-to-DVD “windows” have in the past half-decade eroded U.S. cinema ticket sales into a steep decline. The number of domestic cinema tickets sold last year was only 1.36 billion, down 15% from the 2002 peak of 1.59 billion and the lowest since 1997 (the year DVD was introduced to U.S. markets).
So, again, for Abrams’ “Star Trek,” in this diminished cinemagoing environment, and with its tired franchise and no-name cast, to emerge as such a juggernaut is dang impessive. Needless to say, the new “Trek’s” home entertainment sales will effortlessly eclipse all its prequels (or sequels, if you care to look at them that way).
All this suggests, of course, that “Star Trek” will live long and prosper in movie and TV form at least until Chris Pine is as old as William Shatner. Maybe J.J. Abrams will hire “Star Trek” vet Bryan Fuller to make a new TV series. Maybe he’ll hire “Star Trek” vet Ronald D. Moore to run another.
Maybe we’ll meet Jack Black as Harcourt Fenton Mudd. Maybe we’ll meet Nestor Carbonell as Khan Noonian Singh. Maybe we’ll run into a Q played by Bill Murray combating a Trelane played by Vince Vaughn. Maybe Kirk will seduce Olivia Thirlby as a nakedness-prone Borg Queen.
CRITICS
(favorable reviews; per Rotten Tomatoes)
21% The Final Frontier (1989)
36% Nemesis (2002)
49% Generations (1994)
50% The Motion Picture (1979)
55% Insurrection (1998)
76% The Search For Spock (1984)
82% The Undiscovered Country (1991)
84% The Voyage Home (1986)
90% The Wrath of Khan (1982)
91% First Contact (1996)
96% Star Trek (2009)
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Can I have a loan?
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I wish AICN posted a bit more often about box office and the like, i find it interesting.
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I remember Nemesis being a box office disaster but I don't remember it being THAT bad.
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Star Trek is still my favorite film this summer. It's tied with Up. But the action and humor . . . just loved that film.
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STAR TREK (2009) was the most entertaining popcorn film that I've seen in years! Truly enjoyed it and look forward to future adventures
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They should make it like that E3 trailer for Old Republic. That would be the BEST Star Wars ever!!
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The reboot still aint better than the Wraith of KAHHHHHNNNN!!!! I don't care how many money shots of Chris Pines ass they show.
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is very underrated in my humble opinion. Liked the new one. Looking forward to seeing more - but bring back the Goldsmith theme.
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...when movies stayed in theaters for months at a time. I also remember when Burton's "Batman" was released on home video in the same calendar year as its theatrical release. That was a big deal at the time.
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but waiting two or three years between films might seem like a long wait for avid fans. Not that we did much better in the Shatner years. But still I think they need to ride this wave while it's still high. Maybe grind one out every eighteen months or so.... you know like Harry Potter. As for a new TV show... I'm on the fence here, since JJ is in his own timeline do we make a Next Gen show? Or a TOS show with the Elvis crew? Or maybe just come up with something totally original ... nah... that will never happen.So Kudos to you folks at Paramount who made all this money, and the news only gets better this weekend, when the over loud and terrible Transformers 2 hit's theaters.... now wait... Trek + Transformers??? There's your money maker!
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Nope
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Just the first one, the fourth one, and First Contact really made money.
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They oversaturate the market with poorly written, equally as poorly produced, meaningless shows that water down the strength of the storyline much like they did with DS9, Voyager and Enterprise?
I just hope they take their time and do it right and don't get all Lucas on us. -
Jack Black as Balok would make it even bigger.
Rihanna as Uhura.
Crap it up totally and the profits will warp ten. -
Starring Tom Cruise as Spock. Produced by Gay Gay and Directed by Mike Gay. Will be shot handheld cloverfield style and every shot will be bourne shakey cam. it will break records. 05-01-11. get ready
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didn't read the fucking post.
Anyway: as we all know making the most money doesn't mean its the best movie though in this case it IS the best movie of that series. Because of the writers. -
The Empire Strikes Back was the worst box office money maker of ALL the Star Wars films.
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the older ones were B movie crap
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Just thought you should know. Woo-hoo.
(Please don't let Transformers 2 suck!) -
... which makes this box office achievement more remarkable. I'm just surprised that ST: TMP made as much money as it did. I was always of the impression that TMP underperformed at the box office!! Anyone know how much TMP made internationally? And how TMP compared to other 1979 box office champs?
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idiots rule
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Long live "Star Trek!" :)
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1. Ok guys my asshole is raw from all the tonguing. Please let up a little.
2. Add a lens flare to your home page. -
I'd like to see Javier Bardem tackle the job. But really I think I'd like them to shy away from established cannon as much as possible and maybe introduce new characters for this crew to go up against.
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...most of this "article". Love most of your work at AICN, Herc, but this mess passing all the other movies in adjusted gross just shows (imo) how little free thought the movie going public expresses when deciding what to spend their hard earned money on. The herd following the feed truck. The Bill Murray/Vince Vaughn thought made me laugh. I'd love to see either (or read about it, lol) in a Trek film, but would prefer to see Vaughn as Q. That could work. They should get DeLancy in the next one if they can, though - as anything/anyone.
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the four, very vocal, new Star Trek haters...maybe there are five.
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The second film will have a considerable B.O. drop-off. Unless you were in on the mythology, this movie was full of stupid non-jokes and lots of boring, cheesy "plot" threads.
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Look haters...I know where you're coming from. I really expected to hate this new Star Trek too....but the fact is,its very well done. From the script to the acting to the directing,this was an entertaining love-letter to the ST franchise. Not to be clichembut heres hoping the current crew live long and makes many movies....
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Since everything has changed.... then I have to ask...
- Will that frickin' Whale Probe come back to earth again. It should since we hunted whales to extinction before the time switch.
- Where is Khan? Still floating in space....since he was kicked off the earth in the late 20th.
- Is V'Ger going to come back to meet with "The Creator"? And what about Decker? Will he be born. With no Decker there is no Ilayah. Without them there is no unification between The Creator and V'Ger. And if you believe in the "Star Trek: The Return" timeline, as in the book, V'Ger begat The Borg.....so will there be No Borg?
- Since Kirk took command so soon of the Enterprise, will Picard follow a different path since Kirk will not be on the Enterprise as long before he is promoted. He won't be in the Enterprise B unless he faces Khan and destroy's the Enterprise in the first place, and therefore there will be not Nexus incident taking Kirk with it and sending Picard to search for him.
Does that mean GASP....ALL NEW STORIES?!?!?!?! What a novel concept. -
The first movie and the most recent have made the most money (adjusted for inflation)and both suffer from opposing flaws. The first had a carefully considered plot meant to get you thinking, but it lacked action. The newest movie lacked a carefully considered plot meant to get you thinking but it had action. I would rather have the first one.
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My bad
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..HUGE amount of new ST haters. No point in trying to deny it or argue with us. It is what it is - we don't all want the same thing in life. Imagine that! Plus, there have been people hating on US for forty years, so now we get the chance to be the haters. :) I find it interesting that the original movie most removed from the Trek mythos and the "new" version are the two that have made the most money, though. TVH is a steaming pile of whale shit.
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What say we coerce Lucas into changing Episode I into the "Prologue", Episode II becomes Episode I, and Episode III becomes Episode II. Then he can give us the Jedi Purge and rise of the Rebellion that we REALLY WANT TO SEE DAMNIT!!!!!!!
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is fucking retarded unless you are the producer
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They just kept doing the same thing/telling the same damn story over and over.
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that TVH is a steaming pile of (goofy) whale shit.
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...arselicking JJ again.
THIS is news
http://marketsaw.blogspot.com/2009/06/avatar-scenes-shown-at-cinema-expo.html -
im staying out of this flamewar thread. personally, i liked it, but it had a lot of flaws. i can understand why people didnt like it. i thought the great characters made up for the flaws in story.
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Or Paul Blart Mall Cop highest selling DVD 2 weeks in a row BIG?
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Christ, give it a rest.
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Yes, cheating a bit to rank them all #1, but Rotten Tomato ratings don't lie.
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This is well and good, but what about the production budget of the films vs. the box office gross? I mean, the average budget of Star Trek with TOS was $35 million, while the budget for this one was approaching $200 million. (and that's not even counting marketing, prints, etc.) Economics of scale, I guess. Still, the new Trek rocked and I want more, please!
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Well done trekkies.
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was my opinion upon having seen this film, this so called "reenvisioning" that wasn't, for the following reasons:
They get into trouble, what do they do? Talk gobbledeegook and press buttons.
They have this wonderful teleportation thingy that can instantly grab two people falling but needs five seconds to pick up some people standing perfectly still.
Does the last fight happen over a big drop? No, they wouldn't be that cliched...?! Oh.
They still have stupid little plasticy guns.
Want to join Starfleet? Sure, but if you're a girl, make sure you have long legs and are happy to wear a mini skirt - no idea who the target audience is.
Predictable plot much?
I'm not a Trekkie but I like Abrams and I went hoping he'd done something a bit different. I was wrong. Still, got the nerds out of their rooms for a few hours I suppose -
..had they had the Uhura dancing scene from Final Frontier
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sad story
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You got the rise in ticket prices to retarded amounts, its 12.50 where i live. Sure you can check for inflation, but can you check for there being 4000 available screens now, screens with all the latest whiz bang A/V equipment, stadium seating, and cold AC, comfy chairs, better food, and huge auditoriums?
You also got the fact that the population of this country has skyrocketed.
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Henerations and FC were good, but then we got two back to back really shit movies. Franchise dead.
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Everyone loves this move. Except here. Proof AICN is populated with bitter lunatics. Enjoy being an ignored minority !
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Where is the Ed McMahon Memorial talkback?
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Man, what a bad movie. It's sad too, because I loved TNG. Their series had such a promising start with 'First Contact'. But, they just seemed to fizzle out. It's like they just decided to call it in during the dreadful 'Insurrection'
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The sheer amount of mouth breathing haters who can't understand why Trek had to change have thankfully become the minority. Just like the Republicans who are now the same way and would rather say "NO" to everything regardless, the JJ Trek haters would rather sit through another Jonathan Frakes SHIT-FEST and bitch endlessly about that than try something different. And this "adjusted for infaltion" crap is just that, crap. If you have to compare a movie to a movie from 30 years ago every movie will be a failure.
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There was 4 people in the theater. OMG, it was painful to sit through. Good visuals, but it was obvious the TNG cast just didn't give a shit.
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Do you watch weeds? This guy is Khan! not Nestor Carbonell he is not the right fit....... Demian for sure
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Fck this movie I was bored...was better than the other Star Trek movies gotta admit...but....yawn...was NOT a summer event....a LOT of people I know refuse to see it because of its name and some things CANNOT be undone....the fact is the Pixar movie is gonna outgross this - as is Transformers2....and more kids are gonna grow up acting out the scenes of Transformers2 than they are Star Trek....because Star Trek does not capture the imagination of the youth or those with any clue of being cool, getting laid or having a life
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Couldn't have said that better.
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I'm talking in person, not on a pussy talkback. Most of you losers decided to hate this before you even saw it.
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to those that say there should be no khan and do something new - why is Batman for e.g. allowed to bring back and re-Interpret classic villians like the Joker and star trek mustnt?
i leaning more toward the idea of having Khan as the MAIN villian - but discovered differently - by another Fed ship or even the klingons/romulans years b4 he was in the prime timeline (thanks to neros intervention disrupting the timeline) - no wanting revenge against kirk etc so it wouldnt really be another khan like villian out for revenge! (which is kinda what Nero was)…not even a retred of Space Seed…just having Khan as the villian (maybe along with the klingons*) in a totally new adventure like the joker in TDK
(*in fact i remember reading early reports about TWOK that erroneously said Khan was leader of the klingons!…the sequel could finally make that a reality!…plus khan mentions the old klingon proverb…maybe that was a prelude to a tantalising glimpse into another reality where he is their leader?) -
The blow back has already started among people I know who thought it was awesome. Now they're they saying it was pretty good, but had some problems. In a year or two, it will be "that was a big mess, but hopefully they'll get the next one right".
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Everyone will suddenly slam it
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Jun 23, 2009 5:12:35 PM CDT
JJ Abrams' Star Trek Officially Stupidest Star Trek Ever
by fa_tass_dinomolester
Good job, JJ, you've outdone Sybok and Yellowstone. Now go jump under a bridge, you awkward prick!
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You haters are funny, 95% of critics like it, its the top grossing film of the year so far, and yet YOU, sitting there in your mom's basement proclaim it sucks so therefore it does...
You probably also think you could turn Lindsay Lohan straight again eh? Oh wait you think you could do better than her, RIIIIIGHT.... -
3 full scenes from Avatar were shown at Fox's presentation today at Cinema Expo.
-This may be obvious, but Fox has confirmed they will not be releasing the clips online, as that "is not how one should be experiencing it."
It's long been known that Laeta Kalogridis has been working on Battle Angel and The Dive for James Cameron, and her work on the Avatar script has also recently come to light. Kalogridis has been a very well-respected screenwriter, but until now it seems she hasn't had much luck getting her screenplays produced. Well, that's about to change - Kalogridis' career is really heating up. Later this year, along with a little movie called Avatar, she has Martin Scorsese's Shutter Island. She is also working on the script for the action-comedy Witchita, which will star Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz. -
Why not mention the new Trek plays on about 10 times the amount of screens that the Motion Picture did?
The new Trek is moronic. Give me the Motion Picture any day of the week, a movie with intelligence and class. -
Not exactly a great performance in comparison now is it?
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That movie was NOT Star Trek. It had good visuals, but Trek is action adventure, not staring at viewscreens for 2 hours.
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or "off a bridge"...or back to living "under the bridge". Or something. Take you pick, JJ, you gawky dick! And FSJGuy, I love this argument, "People like it, so it's good"! Truly the argument of those with nothing to say whatsoever.
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Especially since you always harp on the specific 18-49 demo on the TV side...By the way, Batman opened 20 years ago today.
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Don't be ridiculous.
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Is that this discussion ignores budgets. Depending on who you ask, the movie has started relatively recently to make its money back, or has yet to do so. I'm not sure why so many people suck this movie's dick; I had a good time but it was hardly groundbreaking or mindblowing. It was a fun flick with an anticlimax. Sounds like Iron Man.
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Inflation numbers...my bad.
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The best Trek is actually intelligent sci-fi, something Abrams and his monkey writers couldnt achieve in their dreams.
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Exactly.
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Shut down this site - they are prejudicial against movies that dont fund their site......seriously - EVIL bed-ridden TRIPE!!!!!
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Make a movie with Khan in it but instead of Starfleet finding him.....the BORG find him. Cyborg KHAAAAAAAN.
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The Shawshank Redemption made $28 million.
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disgusting
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... The Undiscovered Country. Some days, I think I even prefer ST6 to Wrath of Khan. It depends on my mood.
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still blows this out of the water so far you can't even see your captain's log... Do the math on that franchise for a change. Star Trek is small change.
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"as we all know making the most money doesn't mean its the best movie though in this case it IS the best movie of that series. Because the writers."
Erm, huh? Are you serious? -
. . . the Ferengi. That would create a WEIRD dynamic.
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There's a great Premiere.com article revealing Abrams Star Trek as a blow by blow remake of Star Wars. Very embarrassing.
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http://www.premiere.com/Feature/8-Reasons-The-New-Star-Trek-Is-Star-Wars
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pure trash. and most critics schill for studios nowadays. its all part of the push the product hype machine. because thats what a big budget film is to a studio...product. a widget.
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It's not such a big deal that the Star Trek reboot sold more tickets than ST:TMP in such a short time. Back when Star Trek: The Motion Picture came out a WIDE release was a couple hundred screens. Now films debut on five or six thousand screens. Sure, ST:TMP ran for a year, but after three months how many screens was it on across the country? 50?
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With a little basic math, you can see that ST:TMP's gross when adjected is approx 3 times what it was in 1979 ($82m in '79 vs $240m '09). You can then easily take the budget in '79 ($46m) and multiply by 3 for '09 (approx $140m). That's a $20m dollar difference in budget dollars between Abrahm's Trek and The Motion Picture. Hardly a huge difference.
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Sorry, but not too many terrible movies make money. So, enjoy bitching about a movie that has rebooted a franchise in need of a total organ transplant.
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You didnt like the movie, so it MUST be asskissing on AICN's part! You're completely right! Other opinions on the matter are just lies by lesser beings! Well, fuck me, here I thought you were just being obnoxious losers bitching with your false sense of superiority because a director you hate and can't stop talking about made a movie most people liked. Thank god I've seen the error of my ways!
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That's brilliant. So obvious.
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"Not too many terrible movies make money?" Are you on the same planet?
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That's right, when you get the morons who write bad Transformers movies to write your Star Trek script you have to expect your film to be shit.
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Just shows you the brain-dead state of this country.
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Roddenberry himself said he didn't know about sci fi when he began the series. He wanted Trek to be a show that reflected issues, and be adventure. Not sci fi
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nerds... nerds... Nerds... Nerds... NERDS... NERDS... NERDS... NERDS!!!
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At least in some folks opinion.
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And that's easily in a bad year for geek films.
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Jun 23, 2009 5:57:25 PM CDT
JJ's nose needs to be adjusted for inflation
by glory_fades_immaxfischer
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You make a good point, but you should also take into account the fact that while a film can now play in more auditoria than ever, those auditoria are today much smaller on average (in terms of number of seats per screen) than they were 30 years ago.
But, really, my brain tells me the insanely shrunken release window precipitates a far greater mitigating force than the number of available cinema screens. -
For those of us who hate to shell out a ton of dough and deal with other idiots in the theatre
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you never fight with your dad?
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But I see your point. I was just trying to pimp Q-Squared, the greatest Trek novel of all time.
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even with all the idiots out there, I'd still rather see a movie with an audience than not.
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Science fiction is a broad genre of fiction that often involves speculations on current or future science or technology.
These may include:
A setting in the future, in alternative time lines, or in a historical past that contradicts known facts of history or the archeological record.
A setting in outer space, on other worlds, or involving aliens
Stories that involve technology or scientific principles that contradict known laws of nature.
Stories that involve discovery or application of new scientific principles, such as time travel or psionics, or new technology, such as nanotechnology, faster-than-light travel or robots, or of new and different political or social systems (e.g., a dystopia, or a situation where organized society has collapsed. -
Simon Pegg, Eric Bana, John Cho, Karl Urban, Zachary Quinto, and Winona Ryder are TOTAL nobodies.
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is to seek out more expensive "adult-only" shows. Having to pay an extra $3 strains away a lot of the morons; well worth the money, I say.
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Oh look someone finally had to resort to throwing SOMEONE ELSES PAID OPIONION to trash on Trek. Run out of ad hominem attacks? I use those too, but I try not to resort to finding other shit written overpaid mouthpieces.
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In the making of Star Trek Roddenbery says he set Trek in space because the network censors could see an alien talking about our humanity, and not be offended by it. Look at the episode with the people with the black and white faces for reference. Trek is not sci fi. It mever has been with the exception of some heavy tech talk in later series.
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Just a piece that I agreed with, i'm too lazy to write it all out myself.
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It's that good, best summer film of 2009. It just feels so damn good to sit in that theater and have Star Trek back in form. If they go with an original series episode story for the next film, I would love it if they did The Doomsday Machine or Space Seed, heck, why not both combined into one movie?!
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You're right, Roddenberry used the sci-fi setting as a way to talk about the human condition. But you can't say Star Trek is not science-fiction. It is. All good science-fiction is about the human condition.
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I liked it, but it felt like Star Wars in some scenes more than Star Trek. It looks like JJ is morphing the two films into one. Great for action, but as for the premises of Trek, it felt...Different. He is appealing to the new geeky generation of 2009.
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He's only 2, so he's too young to take with, and without family nearby getting a babysitter is an issue. I have a nice enough Hi Def TV and receiver at home, plus I get to watch with captioning on (even with the hearing aid I have issues -- and no, I'm not that old). Typically, the only movies my wife or I see in the theaters we see by ourselves (I saw TDK and Watchmen that way); however, that requires it to be a movie the other doesn't want to see. My wife likes Trek, so we're waiting for DVD.
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but, it's not like it's super hard sci fi. When Kirk goes for a communicator he doesn't explain how it works, he just uses the damn thing.
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If you saw The Big Country (1958) you know what I'm saying. And not internationally it didn't. My apologies for being snarky and have a nice day.
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you don't like the movies. watch your tos, tng ds9, voy. Im a fan of all the series ( expect the cack fest of enterprise) and i loved the movie. I hate paramount though, those bastards fucked up the tv series by churning up any old shit and selling it to idiotic fans who would buy anything with a star trek insignia. A new series. who in their right mind creates a tv series whilst a movie franchise has legs? no one except for fucking paramount.
p.s. to to the early screen showings. it's cheaper and scumbags don't usualy wake up till late -
Yup, Abrams is a huge Star Wars fan and admitted he was never into Trek.
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The Big Country - now there's a fine film! You've got the main theme stuck in my head now!
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those stories were great, but c'mon we've moved past them, or have you seen superman returns. there's a whole new mythology and characters to create out there so let them.
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When unique saying, objects, moments become associated with a particular director through his directorial style, or his script treatments it is one thing...Lucas has his.."I"ve got a bad feeling about this" for instance (which I chalk up to his less than impressive writing abilitites).But when a Director or writer goes out of their way to insert some novel, unique meme into everything they do, Slusho, Slusho, Slusho...it just seems so silly and contrived..well beacuse it is.Still this movie was OK..not Trek..but watchable.
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I love Bowfinger, Eddies last funny role.
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Star Trek was a great popcorn flick, as it was intended to be. That's fine, but personally I like my Trek a little darker. Khan is still the best, and my favorite, and it looks incredible on Blu Ray. I'm sure most of you will think I'm nuts, but for me, ST-The Motion Picture kicked ass. I just prefer that darker, and more realistic feel over the general popcorn romp. Of course at the end of the day, it's all about ticket sales. It's good to know Trek can still produce big box office.
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I'm glad JJ and company accomplished this. It's quite a feat.
The early scene following the bar fight where Captain Pike tells Kirk about his father was a really moving push into the story. I liked that Abrams went there, into emotional territory that Trek usually dismisses. It gave the story weight.
I hope JJ's next film is full of moments like this, plus one or two even larger-scale kickass battles, since the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'm actually looking forward to the next "Trek" film.
How'd that happen? -
The Motion Picture did kick ass. It's only morons with an attention span of zero that think its crap. Thats why they loved all the wacky camera angles and shots of JJ's film.
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Thanks Kwisatzhaderach, I thought that compared with Roddebberry Trek and JJ Trek. It felt different, and it was clear in the film. I'll love it for the action, but as for the Lead Chris Pine he didn't do it for me. As for the plot....I'm still baffled whether I like it or not, it got me thinking though, but not like normal Trek. I'd always thought "To boldly go where no man has gone before." Instead it's BOOM, BOOM, BOOM!! But I guess that's it's height of the movie, it gives the thrills.
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Between Pike and Kirk in the bar. Can't recall just now the actor that played Pike, but he's very very good. They all did a great job.
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But congrats to JJ and the franchise nonetheless...
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... it was watchable, but let's face it, it still kinda sucked.
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Nice to know I'm not the only one that holds The Motion Picture up as one of the best. The attention to details was incredible. The Enterprise has never in any other film looks more real than it did in the Motion Picture. The way the ship was lit, the starfields, it all had large scope and a very real feel to it. No other Trek film to date has gotten that right. I'm not fond of the shaakkkky cam thing that's popular in today's films.
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OUCH! I forgot about that scene. Now it haunts my nightmares again!
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It's the best Trek movie in a long time, and it has more nods to the old series than some of the new series sid.
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And not boring at all unless you are a Bay fan. One thing someone need to tell JJ though...STOP with the close ups during battles. Really..you have gigantic starships blowing the shit out of each other and we see nothing but close up after close up, fast cut after fast cut of Phasers and missiles.
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I really liked this film and I've been a ST fan since 1966! I knew it would do well and can't wait for the DVD and the next one!
Also TMP is really much better in the director's cut. They fixed all the stuff that was missing and the editing was better. Anyway this was just what the franchise needed. -
I loved that one shot where the ENT flew by with phasers going off. Awesome.
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... UC, a very underrated film. And this particular naysayer never said it would fail, just that I'm against the entire concept from beginning to wherever it leads. The only positive about it, for me, is that it may actually lead to a new Trek tv series. If JJ was involved in ANY WAY it would HAVE to be FAR superior to Enterprise, and that I'm completely down for. Plus, if back on TV at least I wouldn't have to pay to see it (presumably).
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Star Trek 09 only looks good in comparison to its competition in a very weak slate of summer movies. If Wolverine or Terminator had been any good this weak xerox of a movie's grosses would be deservedly depressed. But next to Wolverine it looks like Citizen Fucking Kane.
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JJ knows how to use phasers and photon torpedoes. Trek needed that and it got it. Good for him, as for the plot. I'm still eye brows raised as in is it a Cat or Dog? Woops I mean Star Trek or Star Wars I watched this year? Hmmmm.
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... reading through the whole talkback, because the blind unwarranted hate towards the new Trek becomes tiresome after a while. Face it, kids. Trek is BACK, in a new way, that the people at large - not us geeky buggers hanging out and bitching on our own little corner of cyberspace - can't get enough of. People really liked this flick, it's almost like Star Wars in the way that people who would usually give it a very, very wide swerve are going to see it, and going back again. So, please, if anyone up there is throwing round phrases like "JJ Trek" or words like "hack", please jack it in. Someone waded in and saved your beloved franchise and gave it a kick in the arse. Plenty of Star Wars fans would love it if that could happen!
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I paid for it TWICE, because I wanted to make sure I wasn't stupid the first time around. but it turned out that the story really does stink and is an insult to all TREK that came before.
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.. are my well-written and well-thought-out diatribes being edited down so only the first and last paragraphs appear? I mean, my last post was supposed to silence all the naysayers FOR FUCKING EVER!!!! Anyway, seeing the new Trek, having bought the box sets of the original series, and rewatching my beloved Wrath Of Khan, Search For Spock, Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country, made me go out and buy the rest of the flicks. I confirm that The Motion Picture is still a right load of shite.
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Pike and Kirk bar scene. Something Spock might raise an eyebrow at.
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How? How is this one "an insult to all TREK that came before." more than 50% of all Trek that came before was complete and utter shit.
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Jun 23, 2009 7:09:18 PM CDT
BTW, F. Murray Abraham was actually a damn good villain
by fa_tass_dinomolester
Infinitely more presence and menace than "Eric Blanda", as someone in another talkback coined him...
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I still, all these weeks after, do not understand what the massive issue with the plot is. It's Star Trek! I mean... What's the plot of The Motion Picture? Starship Enterprise sort of drives towards a big fucking cloud, under the command of an uncharacteristically glum and quite unpleasant Kirk.. sort of drives through it... stops. They get out, say hello, and turn around. Okay, I'm shooting fish in a barrel with that one, because I only re-watched it today, but as far as I'm concerned, the new Star Trek had a decent, involving, fast-paced storyline (which crucially, did NOT alienate every viewer except for hardcore Trekkies)... it might not hold up to abject scrutiny for crying out loud, but I guarantee you, neither does ANY Trek flick.
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But the numbers speak for themselves. It's a popcorn movie people, it's not Khan. The masses out there want fun, who can blame em. The studio has to deliver, thus we get this. But this success means more Trek in the future, and that I'm thrilled about. Again, there is a lot to like about this movie. A must read is the "countdown" trade paperback. Reading that will help flesh out the movie for you, and especially in the case of the Nero character. And by the way, The Motion Picture is NOT shite.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Movie performance should ALWAYS be based on NUMBER OF TICKETS SOLD. How the fuck the US and the UK got into this ridiculous habit of rating films based on takings, I shall never fathom.
... but I liked it a lot, so not complaining. -
2 main reasons:
1. it's utterly brainless, meaning there's not a trace of any kind of moral or philosophical storyline.
2. it has been the center of countless episodes (and FIRST CONTACT) to restore the timeline to its original course. here, however, none of the characters (not even old Spock) give a damn that the timeline has been altered, Vulcan destroyed, Spock's mother killed, Kirk's father killed. why don't they care? one reason only: because if they DID care, there would be no precious reboot. -
and so many other smaller reasons that I could spend all night listing them
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totally agree, ticket count is the only thing that makes sense
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was well written & acted... just that the camera was moving around too much for me. I've heard it's supposed to be from the perspective of a punch-drunk Kirk, which makes sense. But I got dizzy. And they should pull back a little more in the space battle scenes for us to take in more of the action. Other little quibbles, but overall a very cool flick and one of the best "odd" Trek films...
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... I coined him "Eric Banal", years ago after seeing Hulk. He took an exciting character - a meek man, a tortured scientist, a decent bloke of humility, who turns into a big fuck-off raging monster - and made him BORING. That was the fault of Ang Lee as much as he, just making EVERY character in that flick unlikeable, but I couldn't help but thing Bana(l) was committing the Russell Crowe crime of over-thinking and over-acting everything he does. But, in Star Trek, he did his job. This film was NOT about a formidable villain. He did a good job of being an angry, unpredictable threat. Albeit in small doses. THIS film was about three guys named Kirk, Spock and McCoy, and it did that job splendidly, ta-very-much.
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the problem isn't so mucht the plot, but rather the characters. their behavior has been written in order to allow for the reboot. I'm no writer, but I have read a few books about writing, and one thing they all agree on is: always let the characters LIVE, let them write their own story! in STAR TREK (the new movie) you can feel that the characters aren't really alive, but merely remote-controlled puppets that have to behave in a certain way in order to fulfill their main purpose, which is not to care about the altered timeline.
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speaking of Nero... who in the universe would build a MINING VESSEL that looks like a freakin nightmare from hell?? I mean, not even Romulans are THAT impractical. a mining ship is supposed to do its job efficiently, not scare the crap out of everyone who sees it.
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If your expecting depth in this new movie, your going to be disappointed. And it is disappointing to us sci fi fans that we don't have a rich, deep spectacle of a movie here. That is not the audience this movie is intended for. This is supposed to be a movie you and your girlfriend will like, thus twice the sales. Yep, back to the name of the game, $$$ Know that going in. Maybe someday we will get some amped up geek Trek for the fanboys.
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Howdy. I get your points but... You say there's no moral or philosophical point. I disagree. The moral point, albeit a very simple stock one, is there in Kirk and Spock. Fulfilling one's potential, in Kirk's case. Stepping up to the challenge, to the greater cause of good, in a noble fashion. In Spock's case, following his wishes and embracing his heritage. It's blockbuster morality 101, I know. But it's made the franchise we enjoy so much more accessible to everyone, and taken it (thankfully, in my view) out of that little box of geekdom which was really, really strangling it. I mean come on, most post-Next Generation Trek is a total joke at worst, and quite impenetrable to anyone who's not an uber-fan. As for the whole timeline issue, it's made quite clear in this film that the original timeline COULDN'T be restored, but that the original timeline STILL exists. Somewhere, somewhen, somehow. It's actually verbally spoken in the film, more than once. I just don't think (and I speak as a long time Trek fan who, for fuck's sake, has The Final Frontier playing on DVD as I type) tha Abrams and Co could've won with some folks. The didn't shit all over the timeline, they left it sancrosanct, and relaunched Star Trek into the wider consciousness, and more importantly, made those wonderful characters fresh again.
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Star Trek 2 still rules all.
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Proves that the original timeline DID happen. It hasn't been wiped out or negated.
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... I can't really argue with your point about the mining vessel! All I can say is, it's looks cool on screen... and thinking about it... fuck it, it's a big flying MINING COMPLEX, maybe it has to be that big! :) You're argument about the characters simply being there to advance the plot... well... isn't that what characters are for, sometimes? I mean... I hear the argument a lot about how "convenient" is was that Scotty was on the ice planet... That to me is like saying it was ridiculously lucky that that Solo fella was having quick beer when the whiny kid and old man wandered into that wacky bar on Tatooine.
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All this shit about JJ's flares, and shaky cam. For fuck's sake let it go. The movie was a blast. It made millions. You will buy it on BluRay, and go so the sequel. I am so tired of hearing nerds complain about camera techniques that they have no idea how to do. This is like criticizing a surgeon about how he ties his sutures. Shut the fuck up!
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Well said, in but fourteen words, sir. I'd've done the same if I hadn't had too many beers!
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okay, you're right, that's at least some sort of moral point, although I would have wished for something that made ME think, not only something that made the characters think, you know what I mean? and about the timeline. first, I don't see why it couldn't be restored. I mean, these are the HEROES OF STAR TREK, they would find a way to go back and "repair whatever damage's been done", wouldn't they? even I could think of ways. slingshot back in time (old Spock knows how it works), blow the Narada up with a huge antimatter mine at the moment when it comes through the black hole, and everything would be okay. but they don't even think about it. second, I don't remember them stating that the timeline couldn't be restored. if they had done that and explained it in a logical way, I would have been happy. but I didn't hear anything like, and I saw the movie twice. and third, why should we assume that the original timeline still exists?? that would make every other timeline-restoring episode (and FIRST CONTACT) pointless, because if the original timelines still exist after a timeline-alteration, well then why do they even bother "restoring" it? and that's why I see it as an insult to all TREK that came before.
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He was just a truck driver essentially that was mad at Spock and Vulcan and Earth. He didn't care about the rest of the galaxy.
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for me, at least, regarding the new series:
The timeline split right at Kirk's birth. Prior to that point, the two worlds shared the same history; after that, they went different directions.
Still, though, there are instances of the Enterprise crew traveling back in time to prior to the moment of the divergence. If the new crew went back and watched the moment of Edith Keeler's death in the early 20th century, who would they see? Their Kirk, or the original Kirk? -
why would the presence of old Spock prove that the original timeline still exists? pretty much every time-travel story in the history of movies works in such a way that characters can go back in time and alter the timeline WITHOUT disappearing (the exception being BACK TO THE FUTURE). take TERMINATOR 2 for example. they alter the timeline when they kill Miles Dyson and destory the Terminator chip. but the Arnie-Terminator doesn't simply disappear. and why would he? he's physically there, in the altered timeline, and it would be illogical for him to just vanish or something. so the presence of old Spock proves nothing.
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Because, hey, even J.J.'s poo is probably worth seeing!
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I think in this case it goes beyond the characters advancing the plot. it's more like the characters not being themselves at all. Kirk and Spock, in every other instance of STAR TREK, be it TOS or the movies or even TAS, would have risked their lives to restore the timeline. here they don't. they don't even care. and that's BAD writing.
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Let's not forget, the one Star Trek film that tried to "make us think" (I don't use that term disparagingly) was The Motion Picture, and it is, almost start-to-finish, fucking AWFUL. I only watched it yesterday. Two-plus huors of everyone staring at a window looking awe-inspired and questioning the nature of humanity. In the case of previous adventures restoring timelines - well, in those cases (let's say Voyage Home, First Contact, City On The Edge of Forever etc.) our heroes HAD a future/reality that HAD to get back to. Our new Kirk and Co, in this case, knew nothing except there was some angry guy in a big ship with a vendetta. In the case of old Spock not trying to restore the timeline? Well, that's a fair point I guess. I don't know. I just took it that the event that brought him and Nero into the past was a freak occurence that couldn't be replicated. I don't particularly think that everything should be explained. Because that's when you get into Picard/Janeway/Bloke From Quantum Leap stood pensively behind the Science Officer spouting technobabble in a boring attempt to get the crew out of some dramatic device without contradicting an increasingly tedious and sacred "canon".
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I freelance as a camera man, I totally liked the LOOK of the movie, and still I won't buy the Blu-ray because I didn't like what they did to the story/characters.
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Just to mix it up a bit. The Borg comes from the future and Kirk and company must send them to Hell!
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For the record, i liked the new Trek.
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Wait, is that too much technobabble for you to understand? I guess Star Trek is officially the franchise for losers who don't understand "that durned science talk!"
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Given the amount of posting I did in the talkback for when the movie opened I just gotta throw in that this news gives me some vindication. Too often haters were saying that STINO was never going to equate with ST:TMP's level of success. Now we have a reality based opinion to prove naysayers wrong. Hate all you want, but that particular argument is now dead to me.
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Q realizes that time is all distorted and decides, hey, let's fuck it up some more to his desire. Earth is destroyed, Starfleet is destroyed by the Borg in the second film, only Kirk out smarting Q and a wrathful Klingon army can save the day and restore time to where it should have been.
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Interesting things from this movie:
People who have known Spock a while are no longer constantly surprised at his outlook on logic.
Kirk has a very high IQ in this. That's only told to us and never really demonstrated but with any luck, the movies will turn on his intelligence, like in The Undiscovered Country when he signalled surrender instead of following his gut.
People have their jobs for a reason. Uhura is a dedicated student of communication, Scottie is an innovator in the field of warp technology, but somehow Sulu is just a dweeb in the movie. He didn't do anything visibly extraordinary.
There are lots of bizarre looking extraterrestrials in Starfleet.
I would have liked it, however, if the USS Kelvin incident had militarized Starfleet by its occurrence. In fact, that incident should have changed a lot more than it did, imo, but I can see why the filmmakers were too scared to do that. Maybe in "Star Treks". -
Was the best one in years.
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okay, I guess I am the kind of STAR TREK fan who loves what you describe there at the end of your post, because that's STAR TREK to me. I guess I'm a nerd, I like technical stuff, I like science and astrophysics, and I like the "canon" ;-) about your other points... I think NEMESIS actually has some very solid philosophical points about what makes a person who they are (nature vs nurture), and that's the kind of thing I missed in the new movie. in the YESTERDAY'S ENTERPRISE episode of TNG, no-one except Guinan has any idea that the timeline has been altered, and yet she can convince them that they're not in the "normal" timeline and that they have to change it back. and, like I said, old Spock should know about the slingshot effect, so it shouldn't be a problem to travel back. btw, there's no altered timeline that needs restoring in THE VOYAGE HOME ;-)
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Sulu had a sword fight with Romulans. That was one of my favorite scenes. Also an homage to a an old TOS episode.
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I think the McDonald's analogy has already been made.
It makey money, but it tast'ah like SHIT.
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Watching TS, I was thinking he could be a good Khan.
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.. Chris Pine semi-channeling 60s Shatner via early-80s Harrison Ford; Kirk and Spock back-and-forthing deciding on how to kick fuck out of the baddies (which is what ALMOST EVERY EPISODE of the original series ended up with)... than Baldie From Dewsbury or that sour-faced schoolmarm on Voyager pacing around a bridge that looked like a hotel conference suite wondering about the moral and diplomatic implications of it all.
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I fail to see how this is a surprise. Wake me up when somebody makes a "Star Trek" movie that's actually "Star Trek".
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Good point on Voyage Home. I guess in that case, they were CREATING a new timeline by an annulling the extinction of the whales! As for the technobabble, I'm sure you realise that it IS just that. Babble. It means nothing. Very little of it even makes sense scientifically. It always struck me as a piss-easy way to get out of a plot contrivance. Even if it was properly researched and backed-up science, it was a huge turn-off for viewers and audiences. And there was very, very precious little of it in the original series or movies. Thankfully. I honestly believe that the new Trek is closer in spirit to the original series and flicks than The Next Generation and anything that came after ever was. For the record, too, I think Nemesis gets a pretty bad rap compared to Insurrection. That really DID suck. I'd put, as two hour stories, Insurrection and Motion Picture quite well below Nemesis.
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Which is why no one reads them.
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Serviceable in T4... but anyone would've been. How that dude's being touted as the next big thing... It's a mystery to me. Pretty sure some agent out there is thinking "well, he's Aussie, he works out, he ain't bad looking. Maybe I can earn what Russell Crowe's agent did a few years ago."
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You're right, but ST doesn't take The Terminator logic. It takes the Back to the Future method. You said that yourself, bro...
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I don't mean to say the technobabble is great science. but I would say it's more than just babble. after all, people like Stephen Hawking are STAR TREK fans. and I would bet my nerdy little ass that Hawking prefers TNG to TOS because TNG has more technobabble ;-) and yes, I also think the new TREK is closer to TOS than TNG ans enything that came after. TOS has always been my least favorite TREK, I guess that explains why I don't like the new movie.
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I most certainly did NOT say that
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Jun 23, 2009 8:27:15 PM CDT
Herc, I honestly want to know, what is the point of this?
by industrykiller!
Other than lending credence to the idiot, mouth breather, apologist argument of "Look how much money it made!!! BLARGH!!" If this is supposed to be some kind of commentary ont he quality of the film EPIC. FUCKING. FAIL. Box office is meaningless. Star Trek was always a cult hit, no shit Sherlock you can dumb it down, speed it up, and put a coat of paint on it and make it popular with the masses. You're a real fucking scholar if you need box office to figure that out. So, tell me, what is the purpose of this little tirade?
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TMP shot down his career for about 20 years until he came back with that churchy show.
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Time travel movies utilize two (2) methods: The first obeys the law that time travel is necessary for future events to happen (like Terminator). The second obeys the law that time travel is not necessary and alters future events (like Back to the Future) Neither method is wrong. ST takes the latter.
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He played the sneaky lawyer guy.
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AICN Poll
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3 months?
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you say that, but I definitely didn't and don't say that. I don't even know exactly what you mean, but I'm pretty sure you mean something different than what I meant. I was talking about the following distinction: on the one hand, there are movies like BACK TO THE FUTURE, which work in such a way that when you travel back in time and keep your father from meeting your mother, you start dissolving. on the other hand, there's the TERMINATOR movies and STAR TREK, which don't work like that. here, if you go back and kill your parents, you keep existing. you simply alter the timeline to one where your parents die and you won't be born, but YOU (from the original future) are still there. and that's why old Spock's existence in the new STAR TREK movie's altered timeline does not at all mean that the original timeline still exists "somewhere". by the way, this whole thing is also the reason why the plot of TERMINATOR SALVATION stinks so much. John Connor thinks that he will be erased from existence if Skynet kills Kyle Reese, but that's of course bullshit. John Connor exists, whether Kyle Reese travels back in time or not. after all, what would happen if Skynet simply keeps Reese as a prisoner for the rest of his life? does the past also change then? WHEN would it change? how would "the time" know that Reese won't go back to father John, and when would "the time" decide that now it's time to change? am I making any sense? :-) also, if killing Kyle Reese would erase John Connor from existence, then why doesn't Skynet simply kill Reese? apparently Skynet knows how the whole timeline-thing REALLY works and that killing Reese wouldn't change anything, so he uses him as bait. but apparently John Connor doesn't know how it works, which is why he risks pretty much all of humanity in order to save his father. so John is really stupid, isn't he? no, I think it's another case of the writers totally remote-controlling the main characters in order to construct a story.
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You people who keep WHINING that they should have tried to restore the Timeline are forgetting one very important thing. This isn't just an Alternate Timeline.It's an Alternate Universe!Or to be more specific, It's an Alternate Timeline IN an Alternate Universe!Spock Prime has no way of knowing what the natural course of events in this universe would or should have been. He's not from THEIR future. He knows that he and Nero's crew aren't supposed to be there,and their presence has had catastrophic effects, but he also knows he and Nero's crew have NO WAY of getting back to their own Universe or Timeline. He's trapped in the Past of an Alternate Universe.You want him to fly around the sun and go back in Time? To do WHAT EXACTLY? Save Vulcan? Save the Kelvin? Save 43 Klingon Warships and all the Starfleet Ships? Nero's been in this universe for 25 years longer than Spock Prime, in a 24th Century Ship from a different universe that is more advanced than anything THIS Starfleet has to put against it. How is Spock Prime supposed to stop him? What if he takes this Enterprise back in time and MORE people get killed that wouldn't have gotten killed if he didn't go back? He has to convince a whole crew of people to alter THEIR past because it hasn't turned out like HIS did? Maybe it wasn't SUPPOSED to match his universe.And even if he could stop Nero from changing THIS Universe, he can't get back to his own Universe. And even if he could get back and go back in Time and stop Romulus from being destroyed, that would just create an Alternate Timeline in his own Universe! And Nero and his crew wouldn't be there anymore because he would have destroyed them in this Universe! There's NO WAY he can do BOTH!The original Universe and Timelines have NOT been erased. The writers and JJ Abrams have SAID SO. And Simon and Schuster have plenty of novels coming out set in that original universe. This New Universe is for the Movies.HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE HATE A MOVIE THAT YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND NO MATTER HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES WE'VE EXPLAINED IT TO YOU?
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The Avatar and Transformers reviews are locked out, lol.
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The original Klingon badass.
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bring it to me!!!
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You're the one people should be making fun of, really. lol First of all, it's not that serious. Second, the point, whether YOU get it or not, is that they went backwards and pretended 40 years of Trek history (including alternate universes and previous time travel) don't exist. It's all bullshit. It doesn't matter how you explain it, there is still going to be a group of fans who are insulted by taking that route when there are other stories that NEEDED to be told. It's a re-make/prequel - just like 90% of Hollywood right now. It's bullshit.
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WHAT?? what in the world would give you THAT idea?? why is it supposed to be an "alternate universe"? the timeline has been altered several times in all the STAR TREK series and in FIRST CONTACT, and it NEVER was an "alternate universe", so why would it be THIS TIME?? that makes no sense. and you ask how old Spock is supposed to stop Nero after slingshot-ing back in time? well, simple: old Spock has the whole big Red Matter ball on his ship. so, instead of using it to destroy Nero in the "past", he could go back and release the Red Matter into the black hole at the exact moment when the Narada is about to come through the black hole. then Spock could slingshot back to the future (to his original future), maybe arrive a few hours early, tell himself about the thing with the supernova, save Romulus, and everything would be great. of course, there would then be two old Spocks there. but you can never have too many Spocks, right? :-)
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"instead of using it to destroy Nero in the past" is supposed to be "instead of using it to destroy Nero in the present"
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...I mean it has no real meaning BECAUSE OF the opinion you're trying so hard to get validated. I understand perfectly the concept of the new movie. It just wasn't necessary to do it that way. Not at all.
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just because "The writers and JJ Abrams have SAID SO" doesn't mean that it makes any sense. why would going "through" a black hole (which would in reality just kill you, since it's not a "hole" but really an extremely dense object) take you to an "alternate universe" AND to the past??? that's just stupid in and of itself.
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...that you referred to, which I read, as well as DS9 (and maybe Voyager). It's been well established inside of Trek canon that there is more than one "universe", and that the characters exist within them. I get that. They didn't need to do a piece of shit prequel. Go forward. FURTHER the characters and the overall universe.
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...my second to last post makes no sense because I read something the wrong way. But it's still a good point! lol
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thank you too! finally someone who gets it :-)
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what did harvey dent say?
the night is always darkest before the dawn...thank you james...thank you for giving me hope again this weekend.
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All Star Trek fans everywhere i would like to graciously declare victory in the Star Trek vs Star Wars debate. Looking forward to forging a new era of peace and goodwill between us and the 2nd best Sci Fi Series ever! :)
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Not only do the books sell, but they sell pretty well. There are at least 20 ST books that I know of that already have future publishing dates. All of them CONTINUING the plot lines of nearly every established character in the non-OS Trek Universe. Clearly somebody is reading them. :) I actually look forward to going to the bookstore to buy new ones on the day of release. Something I rarely care about with movies in the theater or on DVD these days.
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Semper fi.
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If I owned a Star Trek themed restaurant, I would totally have that in my menu.
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"Spock Prime Rib" made me really lol.
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Thanks for the memory of the existence of that headline, Herc. It's kind of tragic to me the was the theatrical money machine and video herd some movies off the big screen that might otherwise make more money than they're allowed simply because some folks enjoy the experience. I'd see this Trek on the big screen all summer long on into fall if they'd let me. I remember spending an entire summer with the original Star Wars, and I'd pay money to go do it again (provided it was indeed the original...you know, THE REAL ONE WITH HAN SHOOTING FIRST).
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"suck it hard and suck it long"
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I did not hang myself after the cancellation of Enterprise. I have been lurking about waiting for the resurgence of Trek. And here we are - so suck it, haters. Long live Star Trek.
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240 million in the US, 123 million from the rest of the world. Big contrast with Angels and Demons (130 million US and 330 million worldwide). There's no accounting for taste. Personally, I saw it 4 times. I even bought TWO tickets when I watched it alone, twice.
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I LOVE STAR TREK! but I don't like the new movie for several very good reasons. that is not "hating". it simply proves that the new movie is not really a STAR TREK movie.
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That second trailer with the music by someone else.
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Remember when trailers teased you with the potential greatness of a film? Regardless if the final product delivered, trailers were a come hither and you may be rewarded experience.
Nowadays trailers have become this social contract between the studio and the potential audience. Nothing subtle here. In fact, most of the best scenes, spoilers be damned, are laid out in the trailers. Sigh.
Watching the TMP trailer tonight reminded me of the Don't! faux trailer from Grindhouse. It was exposition wrapped around some action. Both were well done. -
Maybe Christopher Lloyd should come back, too.
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A real Star Trek movie.
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Their will be no follow up story about the box office success (in America anyway) of Terminator 4: Live Free or Die Hard.
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I LOVE IT.
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That star trek isn't good by default. Bad trek gets piss poor revenue. but when trek is good, it is it's own reward. to all the fuckers who say star trek was just candy or cinematic junk food, i say 'screw you' ... star trek has set the foundation for potentially the greatest star trek series EVER. I hope they don't fuck it. Man i hope they don't fuck it. Cosimo Fusco for KAAAAAHN!!
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Cosimo Fusco for KAAAAAHN!!
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...it's actually fucking GOOD!!!
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People today are fucking morons - American Idol proves that each week and Dancing with the Stars drives is the exclamation point.
Wrath of Khan is and always will be the best.
I love how you look at these numbers and it says opposite of what the toy isles across this great nation point out. The shelves are stacked with the figures - and have been since release. -
From the WRITERS and the FILM ITSELF. From the May 22, 2009 Q and A on trekmovie.com: TREKKIE 369: I see a lot of talk of 'alternate reality', yet this seems like it's an alternate timeline, vs an alternate reality like the mirror universe. What's your take on this?BobOrci: In our minds the terms are interchangeable.BobOrcigoes on to refer to this as a "New Universe" throughout the Q and A. Examples: "There's money or some kind of credit system in this universe."MEMORY ALPHA, the Star Trek web encyclopedia, is referring to it as the "Alternate Universe." NOT the "Alternate Timeline."From the May 19,2009 Q & A Transcript: Robogeek: Why doesn't Spock Prime try(or even want)to fix/restore the timeline and save Vulcan? BobOrci:Two Reasons: the RED MATTER Device is destroyed so even if he wanted to go back in time he can't.Secondly, our story is not based on the linear timeline of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity upon which most movies about time travel are based,(like say, BACK TO THE FUTURE, or TERMINATOR, both of which I LOVE.)The idea of a fixable timeline has been a wonderful staple of sci-fi since the 50's, but in reading about the most current thinking in theoretical physics regarding time travel (Quantum Mechanics), we learned about the speculative theories that suggest that if time travel is possible, then the act of time travel itself creates a new universe that exists in PARALLEL to the one left by the time traveller. This is the preferred theory these days because it resolves the GRANDFATHER PARADOX, which wonders how a time traveller who kills his own younger grandfather would logically then cease to exist, but then he'd never be around to time travel and kill his grandfather in the first place.Quantum Mechanically based theories resolve this paradox by arguing that the time traveler, in killing his grandfather, would merely split a previously identical universe into a new one in which a man who is his grandfather in another universe is killed in the new one.The time traveller does not cease to exist, although he is no longer in his own original universe (where he is now missing). Or something. To summarize above on the time travel issue, going back in time is the equivalent of stepping into a parallel universe, according to current speculations based on Quantum Mechanics. Starfleet and Spock, basing their decisions on this theory, would see that there is NO SUCH THING as "rectifying" the situation in a MULTIVERSE.Later in the Same Q & A:Bob Orci:Uhura says it, and I quote, "an alternate reality." To which Spock responds, "Precisely."Bob Orci: For those who care to truly analyze the movie, a parallel reality is clearly expressed both by the dialogue (Uhura)but more importantly by the plot and how the characters behave within it (like the fact that Spock talking to himself doesn't interfere with his own existence, etc.The WRITERS say it's an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.The FILM says it's an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.MEMORY ALPHA says it's an ALTERNATE UNIVERSE. WHERE do YOU get the Idea that it ISN'T?!
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Bullshit. the first star trek film is the greatest Sci-fi masterpiece this side of 2001 a space odysee. some of you talkbacker are dicks
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...about the new star trek was that it didn't feel like space exporation was a new and pioneering era.... when Uhura asked for a cardasian drink.... well... that sorta pissed me off. Cardassians didn't come into next generation until well past midway. very minor issue tho.
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I 've got my BK Kingon glasses. And the film was fantastic. Are you sure you didn't walk into Terminator by mistake?
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From that May 19 trekmovie Q & A: BobOrci: Star Trek IV is an interesting case in that it is MORE consistent with the idea of a multiverse in the following way: Kirk and Spock travel to the past, take two whales, thus creating an alternate timeline in which those two whales (and a Marine Biologist)are missing. Our Gang then returns to THEIR ORIGINAL UNIVERSE, and the whales tell the probe what to go do with itself. In a way this is a less irresponsible interpretation, because otherwise, they are necessarily playing loosey goosey with interfering with their present by taking the potential grandmother of the doctor who cures cancer out of history and really changing their own universe! Kirk could in theory cease to exist by removing someone from the past. Not so in the multiverse.
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...I think several of the ST films are great: The Motion Picture, Wrath Of Khan & Undiscovered Country (yes, great). I also think Search For Spock, Generations and First Contact are all very easy to re-watch, even now. SFS especially because it completes a Trek trilogy. Generations really worked for me and still does most of the time. But I dig the El-Aurian concept a lot. FC has some of the Voyage Home goofiness, but I still like it quite a bit. Insurrection and ESPECIALLY Nemesis, admittedly, were not great films. Insurrection is a glorified episode TNG series and Nemesis is just a tepid, boring mess. Nobody had any energy, even the bad guys. I still don't think that's a good enough excuse to cut out EVERY SINGLE LIVING ST ACTOR other than Nimoy and to make some bullshit, money grab prequel. To the powers that be, thank you for continuing to license the books. You should really try reading them sometime so you can see where these characters have gone, and what could be (could have been) done with them if somebody had actually exercised their imagination. And you know, I'm really not angry that the movie was a success. If a ST movie is going to be made I want it to be a success. And the money grab worked, congrats. Now give me a Titan series, thank you very much. lol
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so Orci said "Starfleet and Spock, basing their decisions on this theory, would see that there is NO SUCH THING as rectifying the situation in a MULTIVERSE." this proves that Orci knows NOTHING about STAR TREK, because OBVIOUSLY numerous Starfleet members in earlier episodes and movies DID go back in time and successfully rectified the situation. it's nice that they try to incorporate the latest scientific theories, but it's idiotic to change the long-established rules of a particular movie universe in movie number 11. the TRUE reason is that they had to find a way to create their reboot. so they simply changed the established TREK-time-travel-theory to match their desired plot. it's just weak to change established stuff like that, and Orci even ADMITS they did it!
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I TOTALLY understand this. Call it the multiverse, call it an alternate universe or a mirror universe, which is what they did with DS9 and have done EXTENSIVELY with the books. I get the dang concept. It's STIIIIILLLL bullshit. lol It's an easy out that makes the movie meaningless and creates no connection to the characters (imo). With a multiverse theory they could just go back and start over as many times as they want. Repeatedly changing whatever they don't like simply because it's a "multiverse" is weak sauce. Do something NEW with the characters, or even just the established universe they've already created, that moves the franchise forward. Prequels don't actually do this, ya know? Neither do reboots, or whatever else you want to call them.
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congratulations, so there's actually ONE previous ST movie that could be interpreted as supporting the multiverse theory. what about the other hundred or so time-travel stories in STAR TREK history that DON'T?
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Hell. It seems that you could take the plot of Star Wars and use it for this movie. Too many concidences to say no. I don't blame them for ripping off Star Wars. Pretty easy route to do. Also, the same people that are complaining that Transformers is terrible should sit back and examine this movie a bit more. They go hand in hand.
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However, your casting choices are shocking, Herc. Greg Grundberg already wants to play Mudd and he'd be far better than Jack Black. And while I adore Nestor Carbonell, he'd be a terrible Khan (too short, and not capable of sufficient scenery-chewing). Vaughn might make a credible Trelayne, though.
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You guys can high five each other in a circle jerk all you want.This is a NEW universe. They are not tied to 40 years of canon or continuity. Therefore they can tell NEW stories that WILL matter because WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.Maybe they'll find Khan. Maybe they won't. Maybe Kang and Kor and Koloth were on those Klingon ships that got destroyed, and they'll encounter new Klingons we've never seen before. Maybe Uhura will get pregnant. etc. etc. etc.And instead of asking why Spock Prime doesn't change the timeline, ask why EVERYONE in Star Trek doesn't just go back in time and fix EVERYTHING they don't like?I mean Picard can just go spinning around the sun and bring Tasha Yar or Data back anytime he wants, right?Why didn't Worf go slingshot around the sun and stop Gul Dukat from killing Jadzia?Why didn't Spock Prime go slingshot around the sun and stop Kirk from being killed helping Picard? Isn't there a Temporal Prime Directive that FORBIDS that sort of thing? Didn't DS9 establish THAT as CANON? For Star Trek geeks you guys seem to know FUCKALL about anything that contradicts your problems with this Movie.
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...Suuuuuuuuck iiiiiiit.
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what if a movie charged $0? it would get more attendance. you have to look at how much people are willing to spend on a movie. the take is also impressive given downloads, something movies didnt have to contend with back in the day.
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skynetbauxi
"so Orci said "Starfleet and Spock, basing their decisions on this theory, would see that there is NO SUCH THING as rectifying the situation in a MULTIVERSE." this proves that Orci knows NOTHING about STAR TREK, because OBVIOUSLY numerous Starfleet members in earlier episodes and movies DID go back in time and successfully rectified the situation. it's nice that they try to incorporate the latest scientific theories, but it's idiotic to change the long-established rules of a particular movie universe in movie number 11. the TRUE reason is that they had to find a way to create their reboot. so they simply changed the established TREK-time-travel-theory to match their desired plot. it's just weak to change established stuff like that, and Orci even ADMITS they did it!" A more precise way to describe it would be to say that we updated theoretical physics in this Star Trek to conform to the most current thinking on the subject by the top minds in the field. It's as if we were rebooting the tales of a sailboat named enterprise that originated when everyone thought the world was flat. Now, years later, we come along and tell the story of the same ship, only know we know the earth is round. I don't think you can argue it's weak Star Trek to aspire to conform to the most current thinking in science, no matter what previous Trek's did. And as noted by others, this theory of parallel universes was used in the next generations many times, so even canon is not consistent. -
it's the majesty of space. xi is fun but i think more than being a popcorn movie, it is the first trek that doesnt feel the authorship of roddenberry.
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He's here quoting himself! Hahaha!Great movie Bob.
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take a break!
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yes, there is a Temporal Prime Directive, but you apparently don't understand it. the Temporal Prime Directive is meant to maintain the natural flow of time. therefore it forbids all the things you "suggest". going back in time and saving someone who died in the natural timeline is not allowed. however, if someone (usually a villain) has already gone back and changed the timeline, then it's in the interest of the Temporal Prime Directive for the heroes to also go back and rectify it. I'm not asking for Spock to go back and CHANGE the timeline, I'm asking for him to go back and CORRECT the timeline. got it?
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a klingon trejo would be the fucking scariest thing in trek history.
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alright, so if there had already been hundreds of episodes and 10 movies about the sailboat named enterprise, several of which took our crew to the edge of the flat world, where we saw the water flowing down into space... would it then be okay to come along, years later, and suddenly have them sailing the seas of a round earth, completely ignoring the episodes that showed the edge of the world? yes, there had been parallel universes in STAR TREK before. but I think that was always a separate thing from time-travel.
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since part of Star Trek has always been about using cutting edge science, than anytime a new Trek is made it should attempt to conform to latest theories.
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They create Alternate Ones. This is completely LOGICAL if you think about it.A timeline where Edith Keeler meets Kirk, Spock and McCoy is obviously going to be subtly different from the timeline where she DIDN'T meet them. Not to mention the bum in the alley that phasered himself out of existence. What paradoxes did that create? A Zefram Cochrane who KNOWS how important he is in the future is obviously going to live a slightly different life than the Zefram Cochrane who DOESN'T know that.Kirk and Spock not only created an Alternate Past where the whales and Gillian are missing. They created an Alternate FUTURE that has whales now.The probe didn't change the timeline. THEY DID! How is that NOT Changing the Past, Present and Future merely to suit themselves?Not to mention what Future Janeway did to get her crew out of the Delta Quadrant?! What's the theory that says simply OBSERVING a thing changes the thing itself? There's a timeline or parallel universe somewhere where Jon and Kate still have a happy marriage because there was no reality show watching their every move. And/Or no paparazzi to catch Jon cheating! ;^)
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Goes to show you Leonard Nimoy knockin motherfuckers out on a bus in (then) modern times goes a long way in reaching out beyond the usual "trekkie/trekker" fanbase. So in hindsight the "Star Trek 90210" approach worked, at least financially. Still haven't seen it yet, but I will once it's in Redondo Beach at the local cheapie theatre (spent a lot of $ for an LED tv, so unless your Johnny Depp or Christian Bale, I'm not paying full $ for a movie).
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Nestor Carbonell as Khan Noonian Singh is questionable. I like him cuz he was on my mom's favorite show, but seeing his "emo-mayor" in The Dark Knight had me like wtf.
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so it conforms to latest theories that a normal spaceship can fly into a BLACK HOLE, without being "spaghettified" at the event horizon, and instead traveling THROUGH the black hole (which is in fact a very small, extremely dense object) into an alternate universe? and it also conforms to latest theories that the first ship that travels through the black hole arrives 129 years in the past, while the second ship that travels through arrives 25 years later? also, if the Narada arrives in the past and therefore creates a new universe, how is it then possible for Spock to travel back into that new universe, instead of traveling back in HIS universe and then creating another new universe there, which doesn't contain the Narada? and does it conform to latest theories that black holes can be formed from a single planet's mass, instead of (as I learned it) requiring about 3 times the mass of our sun to even form a black hole? and why is Delta Vega not sucked into the Vulcan black hole? and what about the supernova that threatens the entire galaxy?
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Or do we assume INCORRECTLY that it's a Black Hole because it looks like one? Actually it looks like a "Lightning Storm in Space"? You'll accept every OTHER technobabble space/time anomaly in 40 years of made up on the fly "canon" but you WON'T accept this one? Why exactly?
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you're right about them breaking the Temporal Prime Directive in THE VOYAGE HOME and probably also VOYAGER. but I'd really like to see you explain the whole Temporal Cold War story of ENTERPRISE based on the parallel universes theory.
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loud and clear
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Lucas turned Star Wars into something for lame ass dorks.
In their most recent films.
PERIOD! -
go to Trekmovie.com and read the summary of the 1000 post q and a for answers to all these questions.
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Hideous, and all to sell toys and glow in the dark dildos.
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J.J. Abrams made it something actually GOOD. And I've seen the film three times in the cinemas. So fuck every other gay-ass Trekkie pile of shit. The JJ version is the only one I'm interested in.
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because a BLACK HOLE is a very REAL thing that has been described in great detail by many scientists and has also been observed (indirectly, of course) in real life. taking the term "black hole" and using it as a time-travel device was obviously done to get down to the most stupid common denominator of audiences. what cosmic objects has EVERYBODY heard of? a black hole and a supernova. alright, then let's make the supernova our big threatening space phenomenon, and the black hole will be our time-travel device. nevermind that a real supernova could NEVER threaten a 150.000-lightyear-diameter galaxy, or that a black hole isn't really a HOLE. 95% of the audience don't know that, so let's go with it.
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A female con artist messing with this mostly male cast? Catfight with Uhura? Now that's a plumb role for a young actress!
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because all the tools would be floating around, you dumbasses!!!
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where exactly is that summary?
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why don't you just quickly answer my questions? you wrote the thing, after all ;-)
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I thought Berman and Braga said that ENTERPRISE would be slightly different from the "canon" past established on previous Trek series BECAUSE of FIRST CONTACT and the manipulations of the Temporal Cold War? Didn't they use that as an excuse to cover "continuity" errors by saying Picard's crew had altered the timeline? It's hard to keep track of all this stuff that HASN'T ACTUALLY HAPPENED YET isn't it? :^P
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http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/18/orci-kurtzman-to-answer-fan-questions-at-trekmovie-transcript-of-last-weeks-impromptu-qa/#comments
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If you go to trekmovie.com the main page has the latest orci/kurtzman interview. If you click on "orci/kurtzman" where it says FILED UNDER it takes you to every article/interview with Bob and Alex. You can scroll down to the May 19 and 22 Q and A's. They've addressed alot of your issues with the movie.
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The events of First Contact led to Enterprise. And from there, we can logically infer that JJ Abram's Star Trek is a result of the advanced technology seen in Enterprise. Berman and Braga were the first to fuck everything up.
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that's a good explanation for things in ENTERPRISE being different. hadn't heard that one before, thanks. however, it has nothing to do with my question regarding the Temporal Cold War. the entire Temporal Cold War story is SO ABSOLUTELY based upon a linear timeline and NOT the parallel universes theory. after all, what sense would it make for someone from the distant future to try to alter the past, if that's absolutely impossible because he would only create alternate universes that never affect him??
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agh! this is so confusing.
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one of my questions wasn't really answered in the Q&Q. if the Narada arrives in the past and therefore creates a new universe, how is it then possible for Spock to travel back into THAT new universe? since he travels back 25 years LESS than the Narada did, he should emerge in HIS (the original) universe and then create a new universe from there. that new universe would NOT include the Narada. that is an error that can't be explained away, isn't it? ;-)
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LOL, that pretty much says it all :-D
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I see what you're asking, and when the physics gets this theoretical, who knows, but if you go by the summary given by DATA that according to Quantum Mechanics, "everything that can happen, does happen..." in parallel universes, than there we are tracking the universe in which Spock arrives in a universe/timeline in which Nero arrived 25 years prior. That's the only universe I care to see.
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Jun 24, 2009 2:22:20 AM CDT
I can count the only decent Trek Movies with my nuts
by alucardvsdracula
The Motion Picture and Khan. I'd have included JJ's Newbie but I ain't got three balls, so it stays out until I mutate down there.
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The DS9 people go back to the 21st Century and Sisko has to pretend to be Gabriel Bell to protect the timeline and when he gets back to the future the picture of Gabriel Bell is HIS picture.If he'd looked at the picture a week BEFORE he went into the past, would it still have looked like him? Obviously it couldn't have. But the linear theory says he was ALWAYS Gabriel Bell. How is THAT any easier to believe than the alternate timeline/universe theory?It makes even LESS sense.
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wow, that's convenient :-) damn, I think I'm actually beginning to like that movie *LOL* actually, this theory also explains some serious problems I had with TERMINATOR 3. in fact, it explains EVERY continuity error EVER made in a movie or tv series. "everything that can happen, does happen." and we're simply always watching different universes. amazing. I'll never have to think about continuity again. now I can like lots of movies that I used to hate! damn, that's gonna be expensive. :-D
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btw, are you really the real Bob Orci? can you prove it? :-)
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People always point out the "paradox" of John Connor sending Kyle Reese back to save his mother and thereby doubly insuring his own existence in the future because Kyle Reese is his Father.But what if Kyle WASN'T his Father Originally?What if Terminators 2 3 and 4 take place in an ALTERNATE Timeline where John Connor is ALWAYS going to be a dumbass who has to be saved by a Terminator and NEVER becomes the real leader of the resistance because his mother fooled around with Kyle Reese INSTEAD of the guy who was supposed to father the great John Connor? ;^)
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Have you ever heard of anyone impersonating a screenwriter?
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-- I am aout to ask you a question I know you probably can't answer, but if you were a betting man, would you bet that JJ Abrams will return as director for the sequel?
Loved the movie by the way. -
You ARE "impersonating" a REAL screenwriter, Bob!Hahaha! You left yourself open for that one!He's the Real Deal Folks.
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Since I know fiercely independent people like JJ only follow their own path and like to be unpredictable and do the opposite of what folk predict they will do, I will predict that he WON'T direct the sequel;)
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Great answer. I "hope" you're right.
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Has JJ asked you and Alex to contribute Story Ideas for Mission Impossible 4? Or are you too busy with Cowboys and Aliens and the Star Trek sequel?
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No... too busy...
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The most badly written, directed and edited Star Trek movie is also the most succesful. Well done everyone. Round of applause. Chalk up another one for the morons in Hollywood.
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Are you and Kurtzman both really good at writing movies for 14 year old boys or just really bad writers who write like 14 year old boys?
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.....are they?
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...and personally I think its a particularly neat way of rebooting Trek while remaining canon. If you look at Terminator 2, at the end of the movie John Connor should disappear and everyone should have no memory of the events. But they do - its an alternate timeline to the original "prime" line where the war occured (and fuck the sequels - don't exist as far as I'm concerned. Although in T3 Arnold acknowledges that they "postponed" judgement day - so he knows that timeline changes have occured and consequently you could argue he is from yet another timeline). The same thing happens in the Back To The Future trilogy several times. At the end of the first movie Marty returns to 1985 and still remembers having a geeky Dad and an alcoholic Lea Thompson. The timeline exists, but he has shifted into a parallel one because of the act of time travel. Same in part 2 - when Biff becomes a 1985 gangster, Marty and Doc remember the timeline they came from and are aware of the tangent. It's the same with Spock Prime.
That part, I had no problem with, and I did love the movie. BUT - the black hole thing is unquestionably confusing to John Q Audience. How the fuck does a singularity powerful enough to turn a planet inside out allow ships to pass through it unharmed? -
from previous films, thus all the reboots, re-imagined, remake. Thus the finished product is something we all thought existed in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Only to see the finished product as it's Trek and not Trek. But in someways 'Wars' instead of 'Trek.'
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....
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http://www.theonion.com/content/video/trekkies_bash_new_star_trek_film -
This is simply not a good film, no wonder the two executives behind it, were fired several days ago!!!
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They'll fire Orci and Kurtzman out a photon torpedo tube at all the apologist ball-lickers who actually liked this fucking thing, and the screen will go bright crimson as their chubby guts go EVERYWHERE.
I'll have a draft screenplay by Monday! -
There will definitely be a new TV series now. Paramount green-lit Star Trek TV series back in the 90s almost as a matter of course. Remember TNG was greenlit when Voyage Home came out and made mad $$.
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ought to have their head examined. I mean bad writing is bad writing. Even if you buy into the loopy time travel crap, there are still so many plot holes, silly 'conveniences,' and badly drawn characters that it plays out like a Ridlin addict’s wet dream.
I don't expect Shakespeare from these types of movies, but I do wish for a modicum of intelligence.
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The Next Generation came out in '87.
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Ahem....Trekkies (yes TrekkIES...signifying the pathetic and/or hardCORE among you...)
Don't like the new Trek. Fine...your right, your opinion. You've got all your original episodes of 6 (7 if you count the cartoon), comics, movies, books, etc. to keep the cockles of your geek hearts warmed.
New Trek too "action-y", too "star wars-y", not "trekphilosophy" enough for you? So LET IT GO. Trek for you as a movie franchise ended with ST 10 (and what a BAD ending...).
Movie goers who liked THIS modern, rebooted Trek will pay for the sequels....stop whining about 'canon' and "why didn't they fix the timeline" and all that minutia...here's a tip...ALL time travel stories don't really make sense because as soon as you give a character the ability to travel through time...there's NO reason he/she can't keep doing it to fix/change/alter things until the "timeline" becomes "entropified"....the Multiverse model actually makes slightly more "storylogic" sense than the "one timeline/magic reset button" model.
A "franchise" like Trek (or Bond) HAS to change, update, reboot to reflect changing times and changing audience or it's just a "nostalgia act" ala The Beach Boys. And judging from the last few ugly Trek films, being relegated to a "Nostalgia Act" may work in pop music, but not as a movie series.
A portion of the Old Trek Guard is about to be left behind by Shiny New Trek?....So??? Ongoing franchises all lose fans and gain new ones going forward. Change isn't just inevitable, it's DESIRABLE...Original Trek was a product of the 1960's Cold War era....TNG successfully moved it's worldview into the 80's but since then, all the other Treks have been treading water and choking creatively trying to service a (relatively) small, rabid fan base obsessed with "canon" and "timeline continuity"...and eventually it no longer makes financial sense continue servicing that small, rabid fanbase (as the near simultaneous TV series and movie collapses a few years back illustrated) ....
Bond throws series continuity to the wind every time it switches leading men(and in Casino Royale's reboot, complete history and connection with the Cold War) which, for better or worse, allows the series to somewhat renew itself as time goes on. Ditto Doctor Who (another generation spanning franchise).
All you Supergeeks who've tireless compiled that uberwall chart in your parent's basement showing the COMPLEAT Trek Canonical Timeline through 7 series, 10 movies and how ever many books you consider "sacrosanct" (or some equally byzentine FilemakerPro database on your Blog) can now rest easy....your task is DONE...New Trek/JJ"s Trek has NOTHING to add to YOUR universe...You're now pop culturally irrelevant....now go read you comics and watch your shiny new TOS Blu Rays AND STOP YOUR DAMN WHINING..... -
So we should just accept bad writing just because?
(you can get off your soap-box now)
I don't care so much about canon, but I do care about it making sense. And this movie makes no sense. -
check your facts, man
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Other than more sucking up to JJ! Abrams. Is there some kind of quota that has to be met? If not, then the logic is that a movie makes a lot of money, therefore it is good? So then THE VOYAGE HOME was better than THE WRATH OF KHAN and FIRST CONTACT? TITANIC must have been a lot better than I remember.
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For answering some of people's questions. Very cool of you.
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Um...Bad writing?....look at the history of Trek as a whole....for every "Wrath of Khan" or "City on the Edge of Forever" gem there's 2 or 3 episodes with Space hippies or some other incredibly stupid plot/idea or movies like "Insurrection", TMP (just bad drama in general whether it's "true" to Trek or not) or "Final Frontier"....no, I'm sensing the "hardcore hate on" is coming from the fact the this new team pulled Trek out of the "comfortable 30 year plus morass" of it's "existing universe" that Uberfans loved but most moviegoers and TV viewers now found stupifying dull and/or too "inside baseball" for them to care....Team JJ/Team Lost/Team Cloverfield (whatever you want to call them) "broadened the appeal", and yes you can argue "dumbed down" but not totally, there's good dialogue, some good character moments here, along with kind of a sketchy (if you think about it and/or have any sciency background) timetravel/blackhole plot...but movies and TV are MASS MARKET entertainments designed to entertain enough audience to make money..sorry to sound predatory but that's the facts...and the 'Old Model Trek" wasn't working anymore.
You can claim "bad writing" made you hate NewTrek all you want (and yes, its certainly not a bulletproof plot, but very little Trek is honestly...) but the wider, Uberfan hate seems to bemore "how dare you change OUR beloved universe...and HOW DARE IT BE successful with the general public" indignation....confirming that yeah, Trekkies...you're out of touch...
I want to see where this new team takes this ( not quite entirely new) Trek....I hope somewhere that doesn't include rehash (no remakes/mashups of old episodes).
For the ones that don't want to continue, you 've got over 700 hours of old Trek to keep you company...certainly better than the 79 hours your originally had in 1969...... -
So, because some episodes of the tv show had bad writing, it's a free pass for this movie?
Sorry, even if you look at this as a stand-alone movie, it's still badly written. -
WRONG about this Movie.They said "Dawson's Trek" was going to Suck. And when 95% of Critics and the vast majority of filmgoers disagreed with them, they started grasping at straws.They said it would fade quickly at the box office. It continues to remain in theaters, remain in the top 10 and actually did better in its 7TH week at the box office than it did in its 6TH week.They said it wouldn't be successful internationally.It quickly became the most successful Star Trek film ever in international box office and this week passed Wolverine as the 3rd highest grossing film worldwide of 2009.They said it would never be the top grossing Star Trek film domestically if you adjusted for inflation.It's now passed that milestone as well.You haters keep setting up barriers for this film to knock over and it keeps on Trekkin'. And then you whine like stuck pigs when AICN posts ANOTHER thread about how completely and utterly WRONG you were, are and will continue to be about this movie.What's Next? Best Selling Trek DVD Release Ever? Longest Run at the Top of the Rental/Sales Charts for a Trek Movie?Loudest Whines ever uttered by Berserk Fanboys suffering Cognitive Dissonance over how Wrong they are about the reception of a Movie by the General Public?
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Hmmm...Did you even read the entire response?...I don't "universally" love the NewTrek...there are some screenplay/logic problems, but over all it worked...a lot better than MANY episodes AND other ST FILMS....it's Better (meaning better story, holds together better as a movie and yes BETTER WRITTEN) than TMP (#1 The Motionless Picture), better than SFS(#3), better than #4 (good writing sacrificed for cheap jokes), better than #5 (less said about "why would God need a spaceship" the better), and better than "Generations", "Insurrection" and "Nemesis"....and maybe on par with "First Contact" (overall strong story with out of place comic relief and tonal shifts...and well as equally "hole filled" time travel plotting)...so basically "Khan" and "Country" the only two Treks I consider superior in writing/execution. So no, DID NOT give JJ Trek a "free pass"....You're going to disagree no matter what I say...that's fine..."what I believe doesn't require that you believe what I believe".....many blurays of Old Trek left for you to buy ubertrekkie...
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is celebrated by aicn because is the biggest movie hit of all the star trek films? really? if it gets and several oscars next year,are we going to have a star trek memorial day or something like that? jesus
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..MY CHILDREN"
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..IS BETTER THAN THIS ABOMINATION."
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...WORKING ON THE SCRIPT AS HE DOES FUCKING AROUND ON THE TB'S HE MIGHT HAVE COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS SHIT INSTEAD OF MASSIVE SHIT."
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...FOR WHAT MUST BE THE 20TH TIME FOR AGREEING TO BE PART OF THIS MESS. CAN'T SAY IT'S MADE ME FEEL ANY BETTER BUT AT LEAST IT'S PUT SOME COLOUR BACK IN HER CHEEKS."
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...I EVER CALLED YOU A NO-TALENT HACK. CLEARLY I HAD NO IDEA THAT THE BAR COULD GO EVEN LOWER."
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Are you on Crack?
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It basically threw 40 years of stories down the toilet, the good and bad ones alike. With this new and improved Trek timeline, Khan, Tribbles, Mirror-Mirror, Babel, the Borg, Q, non of that is going to happen. It's as if JJ said fuck all that old shit, what audiences want is fast moving explosions with shakey cams and lens flares. It's all fucked up now. But really, Trek died after First Contact anyway, so who cares.
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Hello??? Did you not see the previous posts? did you not listen the dialogue IN THE MOVIE (thankfully the only technobabble)....this is an ALTERNATE REALITY (Quantum Mechanics based)...The OLD trek universe still exists....the Paramount police arent' kicking down doors to take back all your pre2009 Trek DVD's and memorabilia and replacing it with "alternamemorabilia"....What's it going to take to get this obviously stated message across??? Does the next flick have to be a "Universe crossing" adventure with a Picard/Enterprise E cameo so it will sink in the the UBERGEEKS that the new movie DID NOT destroy your precious 40 year "trekClassic" universe...it's just that Paramount's not going to make any more movies in that universe, 'cause that universe makes no money!!!!
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Yes I remember the episode where Sulu is traveling the halls of the Enterprise shirtless with a rapier. I think an alien made of glowy lights that fed on hatred was trying to pit humans and klingons against each other? Kang, right? Day of the Dove? Maybe I have more than one episode mixed together in my mind.
My point was that Sulu's character wasn't definitively a pilot the way some of the other characters had impressive qualifications. Come to think of it, Spock didn't demonstrate any particular affinity for science but they didn't actually say "Science Officer" so that's not really a big deal to me. Uhura was probably the best example of merit, as she studied linguistics and spent her free time in communications arrays.
I also have a theory that some performances were homage to the departed, i.e. James Doohan and DeForrest Kelley. The rest were not. -
that changes Star Trek into JarJar's Space Trek: mission accomplished.
There's nothing in the canon that says they couldn't find a new particle called "the reboot particle." Oh, yeah, baby, the "haters" have been, like, totally vanquished.
That should read "Paramount scientists," instead of "Federation scientists." -
Fuggin FACT.
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...is around $342, the motion picture would have grossed around $420 million if released today, so it is likely that the new film will over take that. I thought the new movie was OK, did not love it though. I wonder if the auidence will remain consistent with the sequels? To be honest box office does not matter to me, the film itself does, will I watch it and love it in 10, 20, 30 years time? Blade Runner is one of my favourites and that tanked...
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Jun 24, 2009 11:02:23 AM CDT
Q, The Borg, Picard and rest will still exist!!! Jeez....
by the founder
calm the phuck down morons!
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wipes out alternate Trek universe.
We're back to real Star Trek.
You're welcome, Paramount. -
disappears forever.
Yes, Paramount, it's like magic. -
No more 90 year old Shatner making out with 20 year old chicks! No more 90 year old Scotty getting winded while walking across the bridge. No more 90 year old Uhura smiling and pretending the role she currently resides in is anything more than a book on the shelf. No more Enterprise "Q" being blown up to make way for Enterprise "R". No more...no more...nor more! Let's go back to a crew who actually lives in a time when they could pilot a starship, have EXCITING adventures, and actually carry out a fight or two without using Wilford Brimley as a stunt double.
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there's already no more "90 year old Scotty" because James Doohan died, dumbass. Have some respect.
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I don't agree. I went to see it with my husband (huge Trek fan), my best friend (huge Trek fan), another friend (huge Trek fan), and her husband (likes anything sci-fi, but isn't a big Trekkie), and I'd only ever seen one other Star Trek movie (don't remember which one, probably because I fell asleep half-way through)... we all, fans and non-fans alike, thoroughly enjoyed the new Star Trek movie, and went back a 2nd and 3rd time.
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"Thanks. YOINK!" (if you couldn't tell, that last part was the sound of your money being snatched.)This movie was hollow, moronic fare dressed up like it meant something. It rips off Star Wars heavily and yet Star Trek rarely. New Kirk (a la New Coke) is a shallow nothing of a character. The action is all run and gun, "go here shoot that" material. The bad guys stand for nothing. The rest of the crew are all a joke of cliches. And piloting a starship doesn't mean having big silver control sticks and warping to a location in 10 minutes, it means actually pointing a ship around planets and stars and gravity wells and figuring out how many days or weeks or months or years it'll take to get there. New Trek sucks, and looks like the majority of folks out there are its suckers.
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Proves DOrci and his accountant partner don't know how to write shit.
I remember even dumber shit being in this fucker - like the Green bitch kirk sleeps with gives him the computer code to change the Kobiyashi Maru test.
I do so miss the days when films were good..
Congrats on the positive praise coming from Transformers - shows what you can truly do with a sequel - can't wait. -
I don't understand what the big issue is. Why WOULD they care? Besides Old Spock and the Romulans, every other character in the movie only has experienced ONE timeline... the one they're in. Why would they care about an "altered" timeline that they've never experienced? Old Spock is smart enough to accept that which he can't change... which leaves the Romulans, who were trying to use the altered timeline to their advantage.
By the way, I believe they did call it a "black hole" in the movie, but didn't they also say from the beginning that it was unlike any cosmic event they'd ever witnessed? Perhaps they were only calling it a black hole for lack of a better term? -
nothing to do but place bets on who is getting pregnant next or talk about the 2buck sweater you scored at Wallmart. This type of life leeds to liking anything you are given (please see my American Idol post).
And this friend of a friend shit doesn't hold water. It highlights a lie - like all the people out there who says "Some of my best friends are black/gay/ whatever." -
Totally agree with you Foomas! Bichir literally channels Ricardo Montalban in season 4 of Weeds. He even sounds like him. Has the intangible charisma to pull off Khan's "superior intellect" (so Kirk can "laugh at it"). This would be the most appropriate fan-casting since the original push for Christian Bale as Batman.
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Next time you see Spielberg, tell him if he doesn't greenlight "Jurassic Park IV" immediately, Englebert Humperdink will come to his house and piss on his foot. Oh, that's right, you "don't like" dinosaurs...a little too scary, perhaps? PS - Also tell him to buy my new album, "Humperdink Humps a Dink", in stores and MySpace July 22nd!
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Why did the timeline have to get screwed up?? Would not it have been much more tightly wrapped if what happend always happened that way? Without Vulcan destroyed and Spokes mom dying?? They could have made it keep the original timeline and had young Spock never meet old Spock, have old spoke go back to the future at the end and only Kirk would have known about the future Spock. Thus why he became friends with someone he prob never would have! Do you get what I am saying? That whole Uhura and Spock made me feel very unconfordable. I just wanted it to STOP! Why noit have nurse Chapple fill that roll in the movie, thus the reason why she always had the hots for him in the series. I dont understand why everything had to get all fucked up? It could have come together at the end SO NICE and have our beloved crew the way we know and love them. Instead we have no clue who these people are?
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Say all ya want. This shit needs to be fucking fixed in the next one. In the 2nd one old Spock goes to young Spock and says"I know how to save Mom" They go to Kirk, talk him into helping them by telling him they can save his father at the same time as (Vulcan, Mom, Kirks dad, and send old Spock back) THIS SHIT NEEDS TO BE FIXED!!!
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by thedoctor28 Jun 24th, 2009
02:27:18 PM
"Why did the timeline have to get screwed up?? Would not it have been much more tightly wrapped if what happend always happened that way? Without Vulcan destroyed and Spokes mom dying?? They could have made it keep the original timeline and had young Spock never meet old Spock, have old spoke go back to the future at the end and only Kirk would have known about the future Spock. Thus why he became friends with someone he prob never would have! Do you get what I am saying? That whole Uhura and Spock made me feel very unconfordable. I just wanted it to STOP! Why noit have nurse Chapple fill that roll in the movie, thus the reason why she always had the hots for him in the series. I dont understand why everything had to get all fucked up? It could have come together at the end SO NICE and have our beloved crew the way we know and love them. Instead we have no clue who these people are?" -
I was just curious if people were looking at the reviews for Star Trek the same way that they were looking at the box office take adjusted for inflation. Reviews for the Wrath of Khan were 27 years ago and First Contact was 13 years ago. I do not know how many of the same critics were reviewing all 3 movies. And today audience’s tastes have changed.
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How many SSRI's is JJ on? I say 11. How many days before he has an adverse reaction and hangs himself? I say..12. Or 11.
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...during a "team building" thing for work. There were 9 of us total in our group, 6 males, 3 females, ages ranging from 30-50 and everyone loved it. I may even go back and see it again.
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It guarantees more junk like this will get made. And who cares. I wont see the new Transformers and certainly wont see the next trek in theaters. Unless a new tv show comes along its time to move on. Yeah its painful because of 30 years of steadfast viewing but change is inevitable. And certainly there have been absurd episodes before that didnt affect what came after so how knows eventually. Maybe Abrahms will grow a new node in his trek part of the brain and lose the fathomous mound of incoherent illogical absurdity thinking that helped assemble this abomination. So Ill catch the next one probably on dvd just in case most likely and if its still bad well its inevitable that Abrahms will lose interest and someone else will pick up the mantle at some point. Probably when Lucas comes a calling for episodes 7-9 (*gag* I hope Spielberg gets to do at least one of those).
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The Motion Picture AND the one with the whales OWNED all the other Trek movies' asses!
lotta people may have hated it, but I never had a problem with the slow pace of the first film - I also didn't have a problem with the almost GLACIAL pace of the first two-thirds of 2001: A Space Odyssey - but maybe that's just me? -
you sure have a hard time knowing when to use "then" and when to use "than" - once I can forgive as bad typing, but really...
"since... cutting edge science, THAN anytime a new Trek is made..."
"if you go by the summary given by DATA...(on) parallel universes, THAN there we are tracking the universe in which..."
seriously dude WTF?? -
They ripped off Star Wars pretty darn good.Look at all the similarities. Should have called it a reboot of SW instead of ST.
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What can I say... english is my second language and late at night I revert to bad habits.
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That explains a lot. What's first? 14 year old moron?
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Spelling Mistakes are one of the more amusing components of AICN. Harry spelled needs "neads" last week.
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Oh My GOd -- racist! Making fun of a poor guy from Mexico!
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The fact that it was so successful only proves that people are idiots with bad taste.
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the movie makers high five each other, chortling, "Yes! We successfully avoided smart."
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