Cool News
TERMINATOR 5's Setting Might Be...
Merrick here...
THIS post over at Bleeding Cool claims to have a scoop regarding the setting for the next (fifth) TERMINATOR film currently being mulled by McG & minions. /film recently validated Bleeding Cool's sourcing on the matter (HERE).
We'd already heard the film's concept could well involve future Skynet mech rolling into our time, and that Robert Patrick might appear in the film as a doctor/scientist whose work is ultimately perverted into the mercury-like/shape-shifting tech later utilized by Terminators.
So, where might all of this go down?
...the sequel to Terminator: Salvation, will be set in London in the year 2011, with a time-travelling John Connor (Christian Bale).
...says Bleeding Cool.
Will McG's proposed invasion from tomorrow take place in a London strongly evoking REIGN OF FIRE - another burned out future featuring The Bale?
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+ Expand All
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SURE WHY NOT!
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Jun 09, 2009 9:38:41 AM CDT
As if the Terminator timeline wasn't already a convoluted mess
by jor-el23
Jesus
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Got it in.
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Put the time-travel shit on the shelf already.
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First?
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and fucked his......... never mind...
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EXCEPT MY HOST.
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You've done enough damage - now stop pouring salt into an open wound. Please go and direct Charlie's Angels 3, and leave Terminator to the....well, you know.
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Quick! Somebody please get John Conner a copy of Primer. Friends don't let friends do time travel fixing.
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And have a Surfin' Terminator hula party.Make a change from all that doom and gloom.
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Read this before and it sounds like SHIT...like BULLSHIT. Terminators in London...why??? Because Bale is from London!!! This would be shit and make T5 gross 50 million domestic. If there is a TERMINATOR 5, get James Cameron to executive produce this and make T5 the finale Terminator film. Schwarzenegger can finally play the human resistance soldier whom the T-800 terminator was based on and you can also play the evil T-800 from "The Terminator" and "Terminator Salvation". Arnold said two weeks ago this film left the door open for him to come back, so before a PUSSY MOUTH AICN talkbacker types "ARNOLD IS RETIRED", wake the fuck up to what Arnie said two weeks ago!
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enjoy your Terminator reboot fuckers..I think Ill stick with my OT.
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TS underperformance has to do something with the bad tast T3 left in our mouth. Now TS being crap people will show even less interest in a sequel.
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loads of sequels, some good, none with the fire of the first couple...
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T:S just wont make enough money.
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how friggin corny was it? i laughed. how did they screw it up?
the f/x were badass though. -
you should have let Salvation end like it should have. It just goes to show McG has no real direction for this thing. He didn't give us the right movie last time and he's getting even colder now. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed T4 for all its loud, dumb action. But, instead of tying up loose ends and showing us all that led up to the other movies, he just showed Connor whining for an hour and a half before fighting. Then, when he could have finally ended the war, or had the Terminators at their weakest and most desperate, he just has the movie end with, "The war is far from over" or something like that. In fact, if Skynet had been destroyed and the remaining terminators were desperate, that would be a good lead-in into why they would mess with the timeline to begin with. Plus, there would be a bit of irony there, too, since Connor dies and the terminator goes back to save him and Skynet dies and the terminator goes back to save it (a la T3).
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Jun 09, 2009 9:49:51 AM CDT
When did they start greenlighting sequels to movies that haven't
by sigourneyweaversbeaver
Wow, just wow.
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McG, if you're reading this post, you owe my family 21 bucks. Seriously, stay away from this franchise. Wonder if Cameron is sobbing as much as I was yesterday.
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Seriously, let this franchise go in peace.
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Terminator 3 may not have been the best, but it at least had the balls to finally make Judgment Day happen. It was in 2003 and NOT 2008, 2011, or 3067. It already fucking happened, so live with it McG.
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As do all your arses. This time, Bale Connor acquires amazing superpowers through a tacheon overload mishap while traveling through the space/time conduit.
When the hunted becomes the hunter, watch out Terminators and unsuspecting Londonites. The Bale is upon you. -
*Clock dongs tweleve*
Bale: "But first....Tea"
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T4 made 8 mil last weekend, it's still needs to make 70 mil to recoup production cost. That's world wide. That doesn't include what was spent promoting it.
There's a good chance T5 might not happen.
Why throw more money in a sink hole -
And it would have been better if the trailers hadn't given away so much.
Star Trek looked cool and evoked fanboy glee but like The Motion Picture, it's script was fucking awful. -
Thanks McG, FUCKING FRANCHISE KILLING FAGGOT FUCK.
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The one thing that really pisses me off about Salvation is they refer to the EVENT of the bombs dropping as Judgemnt Day. Judgement Day is the war. In Salvation, Judgement Day didn't happen. It was happening, for christ's sake.
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Schwartzenegger jumped the robot shark at T2: Adventures in Babysitting.
He then nuked the fridge (so to speak) in T3.
Enough ... is quite enough. -
I heart McG
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. . . We spotted them easy, but these British ones are new. They look human... sweat, bad breath, rotten teeth, everything. Very hard to spot. I had to wait till he verbally assaulted you just for being American before I could zero on him.
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TS has already made enough of an impact financially to make a sequel inevitable. The fact it sucked and McG will probably helm the next one too makes it also inevitable that it will be even fucking worse. Hollywood isn't done humping it's last cent out of the Terminator yet, unfortunately for us. And McG - here a hot newsflash - I DON'T WANT EVERYTHING COOL ABOUT THE FIRST TWO FILMS "EXPLAINED"!!!!!! No young Kyle Reese. No reasons for why a T800 M101 looks like Ahhnold. AND MOST CERTAINLY NO LAME ROBERT PATRICK CAMEO SHOWING HOW LIQUID METAL TERMINATORS BEGAN!!!! YOU FUCK!! For fucks sake, we gave you a chance, you fucked us over, now fuck off back to directing shit like Charlie's Angels where you're not hurting anyone. Bastard.
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If only they had based their T-800s on Lord Bale rather than the Governator... Skynet would have been unstoppable. But they didn't.
Amateurs. -
I highly doubt the WB will muster up 200 million again on another TERMINATOR film. In all likely-hood, MGM (who are fighting for control of distribution) will get the rights and try to secure financing (hopfully about 80-90 million). PLEASE make the 5th film the last T movie and make it an epic action drama. That means firing McG AND HIRING Paul Verhoeven. Make it a two hour movie that ties things up with both Arnold and Robert Patrick involved (starring). We do NOT need a T6!
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It was said he was the leader who defeated the machines and the computer wanted to prevent it in the last second. Now he is already the primary target. Also it did not know how the mother looked like but recognized the father?
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The best film I have seen this summer: UP.
The worst movie I have seen this summer: Wolverine.
I would have to put T4 somewhere in the "I guess is was OK in parts, but I don't remember much about it or care really".
So this bit of news about T5 is "meh, I really don't give a shit what they do from now on" in my mind.
A shame because I truly love Cameron's T1 & T2 even if they are a bit dated of late. -
so far. And it's not even been out that long. It will easily reach 200
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They'll think it's based in Australia.
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. . . now my joke is only HALF stupid.
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$202.7million-not bad considering it was only released in most countries last week.
And I suspect this story(all over the web last week)is buillshit:) -
T4 will muster up to 125 million domestic and over 250 million overseas. Thats enough for one last cheaper TERMINATOR film. Just get a real action filmmsker like PAUL VERHOEVEN. The stars of T5 should be Bale, Arnold and Yelchin. Tie the fucking movie to 1984's THE TERMINATOR and end T5 with Michael Behien (sp). Make the film go full circle....but NO T6!!!
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If you're into stereotypes then surely the T800 should have been 200 pounds overweight with no knowledge of geography?
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Jun 09, 2009 10:06:07 AM CDT
I'D LOVE TO SEE ROBERT PATRICK AGAIN. ARNOLD? RESOUNDING NO.
by bringingsexyback
Lord Bale's penis will arrive in London first, soon followed by the rest of Him.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:06:40 AM CDT
T5: In London, with Christian Bale Having Gone Back?
by kevinwillis.net
Sounds interesting enough to me. Maybe they can follow up on the implications of Sarah Connor Chronicles, where it appeared there may have been factions among the machines--not one unified Skynet, but machines against machines and against humans and so on.The next one needs to be rated R and include boobies. Maybe have the Terminators trying to impregnate a human female, ala Demon Seed.=Speaking of demon seed, what ever happened to sci-fi? Where is the weird fetish machine sex of the 70s?
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....so who the fuck cares....jar jar abrams is the NEW SPIELBERG Mission Impossible 3 and Star Drek are the greatest summer blockbuster ever made in the last 20 years! Nobody wants to hear about this Terminator shit. I mean come on...Spock kicked Kirk of the ship so he could find Spock hiding in a cave singing Row Row Row Your Boat....oh for fucks sakes man... where is the latest Star Trek rumor! OH man that sky diving to Vulcan scene was so AWESOME AND ACTION PACK TO THE EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!! yeah Black holes destroy planets but not space ships awesome plot.. Great acting, hilarious comedy awesome Star Wars re imaging
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Jun 09, 2009 10:07:55 AM CDT
BALE WILL BE 70' TALL DUE TO TACHEON OVERLOAD MISHAP
by bringingsexyback
I'd watch that on IMAX.
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as some scientist is a cute idea, but wasn't he just some cop who was unlucky enough to get killed by the T-1000 in T2 and thus, had his image used by said terminator?
Again, it's a cute nod to the fans, but completely out of place with the storyline. Even if we were worried about canon, which the current film isn't, it just wouldn't make sense... -
Neither of them directed by Jonathan Mostow and McG.
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I'll pay to see that! Just so long as Summer Glau doesn't turn up in it. The only way I'd like her in a Terminator film is boned by the T69 new model of sybian.
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Nah,the T-1000 had Robert Patricks face BEFORE he killed the first cop.
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T6 should be partially set in L.A. in 1997 and should end with everything going candlesticks as originally predicted.
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those 2 dopes that wrote the last two FAILED BADLY.
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No way will Bale return with McG at the helm. Mark my words. It's only a matter of time before I new director is announced. If the sequel ever gets greenlit in the first place. Only 100 million domestic is pethetic. TF2 will make that in 2 days.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:12:55 AM CDT
For that to happen they better send a bunch of T800's
by tom_hanks_raped_my_girlfriend
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They hack bank computers around the world, become trillionaires, buy out and shut down Skynet, and celebrate at Cold Stone Creamery.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:13:41 AM CDT
back in time to 2009 early june to buy tickets for T:S
by tom_hanks_raped_my_girlfriend
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Can you imagine Bale trying to do his American accent surrounded by his own countrymen? I see a couple slips coming.
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Why would they make another one?
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'Cause you fucking retards just can't get enough of his black cancerous jizz. Go on, lap it up you wankers. Fill your empty belly's, there's more than enough of his acidic cum to go around. Now choke on it you dumb cunts.
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This is the worst idea in a long sad history of bad ideas. Enough with the time travel Mcg.
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great more time travel bullshit.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:18:44 AM CDT
Must be that the overseas box office is good.
by tom_hanks_raped_my_girlfriend
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T5 is coming.
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MMMMMMM. T1 was released in 1984. Yes. T2 was released in 1991. So. Yes I guess they are INDEED a bit dated as it's now 2009? Please go play with heavy traffic moron. God I really hate annoying pricks like you who just can't help but point out the obvious. And yes that is a turd popping out of your ass now you've just eaten your mothers meat loaf. Die.
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The story was a mess, but I took it that the world is messed up thanks to the constant time travel. they should roll with it in t5 and fuck up present day bad with their future war. I can dig it.
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....there's sure to be a fat,ginger bloke terminated in it somewhere...
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....there's sure to be a fat,ginger bloke terminated in it somewhere...
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One word: Common. His delivery of the line "It's beautiful" after they mistakenly thought they brought down the HK, was pure elegance. Nevermind the people unintentionally lol in the theater at the line...I thought it was pure poetry!
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SR did 200 million domestic. And WB didn't bother with a sequel. So why would they invest into another stinker?
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For all you lifeless grammar Nazi's.
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With Sony,I believe.
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Actually, I'll be honest, I'll see it even if McG directs. I'm too weak. But imagine if someone with vision, imagination and talent, please, is given the reins next time? Wouldn't that be cool?
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It cost 200 million to make. Plus all of the marketing for the film is easily a 50 million dollar marketing campaign. There will be no more movies. Not unless they cut cost big time.
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Jun 09, 2009 10:29:10 AM CDT
Full of plot holes and devoid of reason...but slicker than snot
by killakane
Saw T4, loved the sound, visual style and the action sequences, but a bit of a mess in all other depts. Runs out of steam in the third act and abruptly halts without any substantive conclusion/set-up for another sequel. Its still better than T3 in my book, with a great cast albeit somewhat underused; it's not the unholy turd that I was expecting. Bale was pretty one dimensional, choosing to bark and rasp most of his dialogue, his DP rant conveyed more emotional range!
Elfmann's score is pretty good too, once you get past the fact that it does'nt draw much from Fiedel's work, serves the film well. Mindless popcorn entertainment, that might hold up for a few more viewings. -
It will explain why he didnt particularly give a fuck about what was going on in T4. He will wonder around aimlessly in london until an epic battle of mangled accents ensues with Bale.then he will give him his heart again for no reason, making his role in T4 even less important.
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His Paul Fucking Verhoven. He can create his own sci-fi worlds. Robocop and Total Recall destroy the Terminator movies. All of them.
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I'm gonna build me a time machine, go back to 1992 and nuke the world. It's the only way to be sure. That way we'll all have decent memories before the Terminator movies slipped through Cameron's fingers and into the hands of witless cunts content to shovel what ever bullshit they feel like serving to assholes like you who enjoy getting their assholes raped by the McG's of this world. Wanna know who's responsible for the dumbing down of movies... YOU ARE. Yes, it's YOU who buy the tickets, it's you who lap up the DVD's. You are Hollywood's little lap dogs and they love you for it. A huge round of applause from me to you. Now kill yourselves and rid the world of your gullable souless entities.
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all this means is lots of shitty accents that i (as a brit) wont be able to understand.
do us all a favour and keep it in LA, ya know, where everything else happened. -
+merchandise+tv rights etc etc will genereate a big profit=T5.
Trust me;-) -
Do you think they'll portray London with Polish workers and loads of Nigerians walking around?:D
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you must have had a hell of a time with T4 then, since each actor had like 2 accents each. I took a shot for each time Sam Worthington went from american to austrailian and was drunk 30 min. into the movie!
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Too bad these so called "Creative" brain dead sequelizing, remaking, branding, franchise, merchindise hungry Hollywood fuckers can't figure this shit out on their own.
John doesn't have to send Kyle Reese back in time.
That event already happened, and it created the alternative timeline/future that John inhabits right now. It can't be changed or destroyed. Anything sent into the past creatives a new coexistant alternative future. This why we don't have evidence of time travel in our world. If it was possible. It happened in an alternative version of this reality.
The only part that messes the whole "can't alter your future realism" That this film really needs, is that goddamned Polaroid. Unless that photo event occurred in Sarah's original past, which is highly unlikely, because she seems like she's preparing in this scene, and well she's aware now of a future she had no idea of, and she's recording a message for John. She thinks John has to send Reese back in time, but he doesn't.
I've been through this talk before.
For a machine- the outcome of an alternative timeline created future with an alternative version of itself winning, might sound ok and logical to a computer. We still don't understand why Skynet want's to win. Self Aware doesn't always equal self preservation instinct. One thing that is true through is that you and someone else can jump into the same past if you come from the same future. so long as you arruve at the same time. So confusing I know......
Your current now time and the time after it is only affect as it comes to you. Going into the past and returning to that reality in which you left. It will not alter it for you. The future you would return to would remain the same. All you manage to create is a coexisting alternate future. It exist but it's not your future. Very hard to explain, but it happens all the time to all of us. We aren't aware because no two same version of youself can exist in the same space and time. Sure you can go to the past and stand next to youself and shake you past self hand or whatever, it instantly creates an alternative future timeline for that past version of yourself. This past version of you that you met is not destroyed. No! That original past version of yourself stays on it's original timeline. The one you met and interacted with causes a birth cycle of a new future timeline.
Everyday you make choices where you could decide to do something else, over what you decided to do. Truth be told you made those possible other choices even when you think you didn't.
You divide from these events. The choice you know you made has you reading this message right now. The one you almost made was still selected as well and that you is doing something else right now on an alternative reality.
Case in point you can't change your future by going to the past. You will create an alternative future that you will never be a part of. If you could return to your future it would remain exactly as it was when you left it- While a coexisting alternate future you made goes on with a alternative future you. I know some of you understand this. The Terminator flicks would be smart to figure this out. To really change your future via the past. You would need a time machine, a alternate reality machine, and a soul transfer machine to truly change you past and future, and move your original soul into your alternative future you's body, after altering the past and creating that alternative future timeline. -
and althought the film was certainly visually entertaining enough, I'm still at a loss as to what the point of it all was. How did it move the story forward? Where was the beginning of the proposed 3 picture story arc? What was the point of the main character, Marcus, beyond being in a position to give Connor his heart? and why was he the only one of his kind when he was surely more advanced than the Skynet's next project: the T-800. Did I go to the shitter at the wrong time and miss some serious exposition?
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I find it funny that a guy named Mr Gorilla makes that comparison. Also, it's probably the most accurate assessment of the Terminator franchise I've ever heard. And now all we need is John Connor jumping through time and running into Michael Clarke Duncan in a gorilla suit. Tie it up! Wahlberg! Bale! PLANET OF THE TERMINAPES!
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Thanks McG for fucking up this franchise... thanks alot. FUCK.
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Would be a violation of causality and possibly destroy all reality by rendering existence unstable.PS-Christian Bale fucking sucks. McG fucking sucks. What the fuck did you expect?
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They need to get back to what made Terminator great. An unstoppable killing machine huntin you down.
If the fifth one does end up in London then it should have John and a few others being hunted down my a new type of Terminator. Just one, that is tougher than any they've ever come across.
Plus no-one would believe them when they try and explain it to the authorities and the Terminator will frame them for murder death kill.
Still not sure why it would have to be set in London (I assume there is something they need to do there) - Bale is Welsh so they could set it in Cardiff and get Torchwood involved :) -
You know this to be true. HARRY, this is the project you were born to produce. Wait for the Terminator franchise to be run into the ground. Then use every last contact and piece of influence you have to become the producer of a new Terminator/Apes franchise. NOT Apes vs. Terminator, however. This only works if they're TerminApes. Otherwise the whole thing just seems silly.
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stay in the future and fights tons of robots.....done...stop with time travel already
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That should have been the end, this "Future War" crap never worked as an angle for the franchise. We already KNOW what happens in the future war.
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The standard latter-day rule-of-thumb is, a movie has to make back roughly three times its budget (worldwide) in order to be considered a "hit". Basically, T4 will recoup as much as WATCHMEN or SUPERMAN RETURNS and, well, let's just say WATCHMEN 2 or SUPERMAN HITS PUBERTY aren't gonna be clogging your multiplexes any time soon.
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about the T1000 and other terminators sent into the past? Bonham Carter insinuated this didn't she? Or was she simply referring to unseen previous models of Terminator that had attempted to get to Connor?
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must be either really, really stubborn or just flat out retarded. T5&6 are serious financial risks at this point. If you are willing to take these kinds of risks now, why not actually put your money into films based on original material or ones that aren't 100% guaranteed to suck.
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And this is the worst idea in the history of ideas.
All i wanted to see for a 'future -set' Terminator movie was John Connor battling multiple Arnold Shwarzeneggers (SP). Coz if 3 different ones came back in time then they must be fucking common in the future... -
however I acknowledge it isn't a great movie...
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do the decent thing and put it out of its misery
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you see the ONLY reason to have these sequels is to play out the future war against the robots. The terrifying thought that humanity is on the verge of extinction. That we have primitive weapons to fight against a relentless technically superior enemy. The only hope emerging - from John Connor: the saviour of mankind. This is interesting stuff and if done well could make some great, epic sci-fi action films.
First shot across the bows was not up to much - but why the fuck would you want more time travel bullshit which diverts away from the future war? We WANT to see Connor as leader of the resistance. We WANT to see it getting grim and bleak. We WANT to see how it is brought back from the brink and the humans can triumph against all odds.
Travelling back in time was the shit that happened in THE FIRST 3 FILMS. We do not need to see any more of this.
Am I the only one that gets visions of Masters Of The Universe? With those tanks and people walking through the wormhole into present day LA? I swear to God this is what has inspired McGimp. He is basically being given hundreds of millions to pursue his fantasies. He wants to do this because he thinks it will be "cool". How the fuck can the studios entrust such huge sums of money to a guy so lacking in ideas? To be given the freedom to create whatever the fuck he likes? How the fuck has he earned this privilege?? Pass the reigns over to someone else McGimp and perhaps we will see these films done properly. -
Star Trek:Nemesis WORLDWIDE=$66.7 .
No we have a new Star Trek,explain the rule of thumb to me again...;) -
The move to London and setting it BEFORE the time/events of Salvation seem curious though.
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...that's when it comes out. Brilliant. Well done. If they MUST to time-travel they should go mental and Back to the Future II it up by setting it alongside Terminator 1 or 2.
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Though you were talking about me. Then I remember how awesome TerminApes was and realized you meant McG.
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I'm counting the days until Hollywood finally fucking implodes, like it did in the mid-Seventies, before STAR WARS came along. Unfortunately, it almost did a couple of years ago when all the studio execs ran around in a blind panic trying to figure out how to save lagging theater ticket sales and diminishing DVD sales. Guess how they got out of that one? That's right, by remaking every goddamn movie that sold a ticket, DVD or videotape in the last twenty-thirty years. Not only do they get money from every happy asshole (even the ones who grouse about remakes yet are curiously there just to "see how bad it is") who gets drawn in because they vaguely remember the original, they get extra dough from re-releasing the original film as a "Special Super-dy-Duper-dy Movie Tie-In Edition" DVD. Then, the remake DVD. Then, the Ultra Box Set with the original AND the remake. What needs to happen is, you happy sack of hillbilly assholes have to STOP GOING TO SEE FUCKING REMAKES. Yes, STAR TREK fans, "reboots" are "remakes", too. Stay home and read a book. For God's sake, exercise, or talk to women. SOMEthing! Then, after the studios collapse, the gonzo marketing departments get jobs managing Wendy's franchises and the execs all go into rehab, maybe they'll decide to start worrying about making good movies again. Til then ...
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Even if Bale doesn't want to make the film, he can be forced to make it with McG. He signed his life away for a fat paycheck when he got in bed with the WB and McG. So he can scream all he wants, but if they want him back in a T5 wearing purple panties, he must obey! He should learn how to negotiate a contract from SCHWARZENEGGER (ie t2 and t3).
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then T4 will be even more pointless than it already is. I despise T3, but at least it's somewhat of the same formula as the first 2 and is on the right side of judgment day. but if they don't complete this new trilogy, the terminator series will be three films and then this oddity that just sort of sits there, a completely pointless adjunct about the future war (and I use that term loosely - that sure as hell wasn't the future war). I can only imagine what future generations will think of it.On the other hand, save us from the torture of further nails in the terminator coffin. Somewhere James Cameron is programming his own personal terminator to go back in time and kill McG's parents.
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I thought after T3 they learned somehing. but no. We all know the Terminator must have one of the most iconic themes. ever. They might not want hire Brad Fiedel (I don't know why) they go for big names, but really the ta-da-da-dadam is not the theme. They just don't fuckin get it. What can you expect from the makers if they don't get the basics right.
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Jun 09, 2009 11:04:31 AM CDT
Oh no. They're running it into the ground. Pull it back, guys.
by mr nicholas
I'd prefer something like the first film: tight, intelligent, scary, smaller in scale.
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Fiedel has retired and has gone on record to state that he has no interest in scoring movies anymore.
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from someplace else.
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Bale will not return with McG directing. Don't think for a second that his publicist and manager aren't seeing and hearing the abundant amount of negativity surrounding this film with McG at the helm.
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Wasn't Warners into this movie for like $50 million and Sony for $75? The next one has a shot at being an MGM pic and McG is attached with Bale already I've read.
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=festivals&jump=story&id=1061&articleid=VR1118003571&cs=1 -
Ask Billy Dee Williams and Marlon Wayans about being under contract for a blockbuster. Two-Face and Robin certainly would have been "dark" characters for Batman Forever. Get it? Get it?!?! Ahhh bite me.
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If they had balls, they would have had Judgement Day happen in 1997 even though the movie was released in 2003. So being ball-less, they had to come up with a way to explain why Judgement Day had not happened yet. And in delaying Judgement Day, they singlehandedly completely fucked up the entire series' timeline.
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Why not???
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Exactly right. If they are going to go Time Travel, that should be done. They don't even have to have a great deal of interaction, digital-compositing of original material from the first movies, just enough to establish they are in the time line, and then do something interesting.
John Ryder: Haven't seen T4, but knowing that McG didn't bring back Brad Fiedel was plenty good evidence that McG didn't get what made the first movies great. Many things, but the music was key among them. One of a handful of soundtrack CDs I owned back in the mid-90s was the Terminator 2 score. Also had the Terminator 1 score, back before that. -
Nick Stahl and John Connor? What more needs to be said?A few good fights, and few good chase scenes, a few good gags. Ending with judgement day was a nice touch, but, mostly, it just sucked. In part because it had no onions whatsoever. First of all, having a have-mechanical, half-liquid metal (at least, the weapons hand) terminator made no sense at all. And making her a girl, just to do it, was kinda meh. I don't think T4 will disappoint any more than T3.
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Then we can get one more Terminator movie.
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Jun 09, 2009 11:18:32 AM CDT
McG better come up w/ the $150 million himself to make this
by yackbacker
The studio is done dicking around with bloated failures.
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Well, they do.
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They should have coaxed him out of retirement. Or just immitate his score. James Horner could handle that, no problem.
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Could he possibly want to work with McG again?
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but I really wish that they would hire a real director to do T5.
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With bloated failures. Most of the studios seemed determine to produce bloated failures (and the occasional bloated success) and direct pictures by committee.
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AVP
An evil robot will hunt TEENs in a derelict shopping mall (many available).
All that futuristic stuff is too expensive.
Terminator 6 will have no terminator stuff. It will be about single-mothers in the resistance club dating doctors.
It's all going to be precious.
And don't forget to PG it. -
Will you please ban any idiot who types FIRST! on these talkbacks? What is the big fucking deal about being first anyway? Has this ever gotten anyone laid?
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Just continue the future story retards.
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Put up most of the money,Warners put in $50 mill,Sony $75 mill.They don't lose fuck all.
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Hollywood is a creatively bankrupt joke.
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Dude, having a bad day? Is your response to my talkback really warranted? really?
Someone should get you some high quality weed so you can relax. Being that high strung in the middle of the day ain't good.
And by the way, T1 and T2 being dated is part of their charm and why I love them... it was not meant as a disparaging comment. -
People who yell "FIRST" are idiots.
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McG have you ever seen a Samurai movie where the retard samurai who fucks up bad has the honor to fall on his sword and spare his family the humiliation of having to live with a fuck up for a father/husband? DO IT! You are a useless piece of shit! You have never had a decent/original idea in your life. Fall on your sword you pathetic douche! Think of your children....!
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And Christian Bale Will Cause McG Irritable Bowel Syndrome!!!
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It does indeed, my friend. It does indeed. Why do you think so many people do it?
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Wait, I've seen this before; Does John Connor meet up with a couple teenagers & a midget with a time machine to fight the forces of Skeletor..er, Skynet?
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If T4 flops - they'll wait 10 years and then do a remake of T1 (maybe even calling it a "reimagining") which everyone will laugh at and hate because of it shittiness.
If T4 is successful they'll make another one, HAVE to get involved with time travel and the second they do that it's over as Skynet would ONLY use time travel to go back and kill Connor - thus we're back at T1.
And HOW THE FUCK did Skynet know who Kyle Reese was in T4, let alone recognise his face? -
It was really touching to see the T-X79 receive that Tony Award. The rumor is, he's a little...You know, light in the hydraulics.
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You're Last"
- Ricky Bobby -
You are the jokers, this moive will make money no problem. It won't be a great movie and far as quality but big wigs will be rubbing their hands together with the cash they made
Remember they make more on DVD's these day's than they do with the flick at the big screen. -
According to Box Office Mojo: $200M production cost, 18 days in theatrical release (as of 6/7/09), Worldwide gross is ONLY $204.7M! Maybe they think the other $200+M will be made up with the release of an UNRATED "Director's Cut" on DVD/Blu? Just dropkick McG and go "HARD R" and maybe they will have something worth considering.
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Yep, once again it's all our fault. Given the UK Gov's record on IT though, it's no wonder Skynet goes pear-shaped..
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oh well, they will film it in the "present" time to recoup the budget and losses from the first shitty film.
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Like fuck she did.
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T5 needs to have a Purple Aki terminator that tries to feel Bale's muscles.
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Again this was online days ago. Keep up.
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More battlefield heart transplants
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Jun 09, 2009 11:58:25 AM CDT
Remember all the Terminators at the beginning of T2?
by badmrwonkasuckscock
Where did they all go in T4?
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And wtiness the stuff going on T and T2. Kinda like BTTF 2.
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It only as been out in the US for two weeks and in the rest of the world for 3 days. Are you talkbackers really that stupid ? Current total is Worldwide: $204,673,319 jesus, this movie already generated the same amount of money as it's budget in 15 fuckin days. That's professional. It will end up generating 400 000 +, perhaps 500 000 in the theaters.
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Jun 09, 2009 12:01:42 PM CDT
T4 Will Likely Join Planet of the Apes and Superman Returns...
by acquanetta
...as another reboot that failed to generate the intended sequels. Both T3 and T4 underperformed domestically and the tv series was cancelled. The Terminator franchise is damaged goods these days.
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which everyone will go "aw ! how come 40 extra minutes make such difference ? How come this movie make sense" and a sequel is inevitable.
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Nothing can create the 'Original' feeling of the first experiance. After a while it becomes commonplace, and attempts to re-create the buzz are futile. It's time to move on. Give new ideas, new artists a chance to realise their visions. By continually re-cycling concepts we deprive others the opportunity to wow us with new visions.
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shut up. You don't know nothing. Trollers do not hold the truth. The truth is out there. T5 will come. And will be awesome.
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vomit covered in shit with a cherry douche smell. Fuck T:S, and fuck the rest of the films from now on.
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I thought it didn't make enough to warrant giving him a shitquel.
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Ok, Bale is the new fart wet dream for geeks. But fellas, he sucks! He's the most overrated actor in Hollywood right now (not counting comedy actors, IE: Rogan, McBride and their ilk). If it wasn't for Batman, bale would be doing the third sequel to Harsh Times by now. I hate his awful American accents, it's all the same raspy, deep voice. Even in Resuce Dawn it's the same. I fear he's going to bring Public Enemies down. But I'd have to wait and see.
With all fairness, I liked his worked in The Prestige, but I'd give the credit to Nolan and not Bale. It's obvious that the same folks who saw TDK did not follow him to T4 (which WB was hoping for), which BTW gives me hope that some of you can follow your own way and not follow the flock of sheep. So please geeks, chill out on the Bale dick sucking for a while.
From the get-go this movie had shit all over it, so it will only get worst with each movie. I'll check out T4 when it hits DVD. -
I read your "theories" on time travel.I didn't know if I was supposed to take it seriously or if you were giving us all your own little story about the terminator.Either way,everything you said is completely wrong.I know your tempted to validate your statement with an arguement,however,before you attempt it,Im smarter than you are.Dont bother.Time travel is impossible.The mechanics wont allow it.Its as simple as that really.There are no alternate timelines,no future selves no past selves,there is only one of each of us.PERIOD.
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Cameron, please slap McGay around.
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Glad to see there are still Baleievers in this world. This thing will top $450 million when its all said and done after DVD sales.
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...So i obviously look forward to seeing it trashed by metal.
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Pilgrim...
That's one, no...the most interesting post's concerning a movie I have ever read.
One thing that also make's time travel useless in the case of the Terminator movie's is the loop factor, in this case for Skynet, it mean's losing forever.
As said in the original it was a last ditch efort by Skynet to kill John, yet by sending the T-800 back Skynet creates it's own defeat.
Skynet sends a T-800 to kill John's mom, John sends Kyle back who created John so Skynet sends a T-800 to kill John
The first movie works on that loop, because Skynet would be build regardless of the T-800 being send back in time.
Making the T-800 the originator of the Skynet technology is kind of a useless plot point, it look's complex but does not change anything.
All of the sequels are pretty useless as the loop will not change, no matter how many Terminators go back in time.
John Conner exist because of Skynet's time travel exploits thus ensuring it's doom forever.
The only sequel that should have been made is the end of the war, that leads up towards the time travel that cause the event's of the first movie.
The end of the sequel would be the beginning of the first one.
Full circle...
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With skulls all over the ground?
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Glad to see we have someone here who knows so much about time travel. Is it hands-on experience? You should go back in time and fix your punctuation and spelling. This way when you say, "Im smarter than you are," we won't all really think you're a fucking retard. Actually, we still will, but at least you won't come across as illiterate as well.
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Why not set it in London 2012 during the Olympics?
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Terminator: Salvation isn't a "reboot"(God, how I hate that word), it's a "prequel". Two different things.
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If you want me to balance that post with a more positive one, I can do that too. T4 will magically make a lot of money. DVD sales will suddenly stop their overall decline and will make up the difference for the box office numbers. The economy will do a 180 and MGM will suddenly not have anymore money woes. They will realize their mistake in assuming that T4 was not a "sure thing", and will exercise their rights for T5. The film will be a HUGE hit, because people that liked T4 want it to be and that's just the way things work.
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Once they locate Conner's father, why doesn't Skynet just squish him? End of game.
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UH did you watch part 4? The scene you talk about is from 2029, this is only 2018. In T4 you find out the T-800 is brand new, and are still being mass produced in the factory. The first one to emerge is the flesh covered arnold model.
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It was intended to launch an entirely new trilogy and was generally viewed as a restart for the franchise. Regardless, I don't think the terminology really matters at this point.
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Development Hell!
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that's when it occurred, according to the Wikipedia article for Terminator 3. so why would the machines and Connor go back in time to 2011, SEVEN YEARS after Judgement Day has already happened? "our time" has already ended!
i wish McG and the shithead writers would actually pay attention to story details and canon. that stuff's important in a time travel story. but it seems like they're content with making up shit as they go along and paying absloutely no attention to the events of the first three films. -
Really, what's the fucking point? Is John Connor going back in time to stop judgment day? Is he going to warn the past that Skynet is sending machines back to fight? Yes, bc nothing makes more sense to a sentient, artificially intelligent machine/computer program that is winning the war in the future than to go back in time to win the war in the past as well. Before Judgment Day happens and kills off most of humanity. Right. McG, you have the storytelling skills of a fucking 12 year old.
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By the time Terminator 5 starts shooting, Arnold will probably be done as governor. It's time he legitimately enters the fray in some capacity or don't bother. Terminator Salvation was OK, but it just doesn't really feel like Terminator movie without Arnold.
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Minor plot holes aside, The first two movies actually mostly made sense. You want to look at the moment when the whole timeline got completely and irreparably fucked up, it was right when Terminator 3 was first released.
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Get laid for typing 'FIRST!!!'
It was a Star Trek talkback [some teeny weeny info] and I was about to write a long rant, but my gal asked me to 'come right now if wanna get laid'. So, instead of a long rant just wrote 'First' and then got laid. Won't have if stayed back to rant. -
ok. Please correct me if I'm wrong but isn't box office totals split with theater owners. So if terminator S makes 200 million world wide doesn't the studio only get like 60 to 70% and then that amount drops as it continues in theaters. So this movie literally needs to bust the 500 million mark world wide. Wasn't this the logic behind the legal battles over the movie "coming to America" that happened in the 90's. My memory of the nineties is still a haze. Please correct me if I'm wrong, which I could very well be.
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... To when Sarah Conner was a baby and kill her already.
FFS these terminators need to know how to use time travel -
that was the biggest problem the movie had. apparently, SkyNet knows who Kyle Reese is and how important he is. but instead of killing him as soon as they ID him and save themselves a shitload of trouble, they just use him as bait to lure his son into a trap. and it's a very shitty trap too, they send a SINGLE Terminator in a factory full of them at a guy who is pretty good at killing Terminators. the only excuse i can conceive of is that Skynet knows that Reese has to go back in time to fight the Terminator that will eventually give birth to Skynet, though the events of T3 pretty much negate the events of the first two films since the machines will come to power and Judgement Day will happen anyway.
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This series should have finished with t2 or a Cameron directed 3rd instalment. Haven't Terminator fans suffered enough?
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I want to know the mechanics of it. I'd frak a skinjob, for sure.
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and the best part is that she can look like any woman you want, so technically it'll be like fucking a new girl every night. and she can probably make her liquid metal pussy vibrate too.
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substitute girlfriend for your dad and we have the actual story
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come out with a new movie every 3 months, with the same plot as the first. A robot travels back in time to kill a Connor, but each robot gets bigger and badder each time. Ahnold makes a cameo and kills it. Rinse and repeat.
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#1 Drop McG. #2 Commit to an adult, bloody, violent R-rated script. #3 Hire Stallone or Neil Marshall to direct. Presto Chango and the franchise is revived!
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Jun 09, 2009 12:52:05 PM CDT
they should have made it PG, PG13 cuts away too many people
by bmacsmith
question: what the fuck was Connor planning to do when he caught the Terminator ship he was "pursuing"? w.t.f.
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also Supernatural fans? Isn't he an exec producer on that or something? I know he has much less influence but it'd be interesting to know how they feel about mcG having his hands on some supernatural.
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Whatever. It's not a "reboot", though.
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1) Fire a series of missiles into the upper atmosphere, each laden with trillions of nanobots. The detonations will exploit prevailing wind currents to circulate the 'bots globally.
2) Allow enough time for every human being to come into contact with these 'bots, then have their built-in timers simultaneously activate worldwide, shutting down the nervous systems of anything containing human DNA. Or just anything with DNA, if you're lazy.
3) Nuke any surviving enclaves with gigaton warheads.
Who needs Terminators anyway? -
Jun 09, 2009 1:02:57 PM CDT
Bale has used up all my goodwill for him
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
Used to think the guy was fucking great back in the days when played American psychos and starved himself almost to death in order to make one of my favourite movies ever.Nowadays, he thinks he's the big fucking movie star thanks to The Dark Knight. I remember some people saying that he was a mark of quality on a new movie. Well, look at the facts now. He took a look at a script for a movie franchise he could jump into and, even though he knew it was shit, got them to rewrite whole chunks of it just for him. How big is this guy's ego? He can fuck off.Unless he pulls something amazing out of that hat he puts on his over-sized head, he's rapidly on his way to losing any respect I had for him as an actor.
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Yeah dude! That's a fucking SWEET idea! Would love to see Marshall's take on Terminator.
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28 TERMINATORS LATER...
Fucking cool news. Would be better perhaps if 'some' of the film is set in London and the rest continuing the future war. -
They still make sequels.
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Mc G and his flunkies can dream up anything they want; they won't be getting another dime out of me.
The Terminator franchise is dead. -
Gerbil boy you already got one up your ass and you need one stuck in your mouth to with the shit your talking.
Gerbil spit roast. -
Agreed. McG has the storytelling abilities of a five year old. This movie was everything that people claimed Indy 4 was. Instead of a few bad scenes, the whole movie was one massive 2 hour fridge nuking. But CG Arnold was awesome.
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Why the Hell would Skynet go back in time to fight? MAKES NO SENSE.
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Jimmy rabbitte. Terminator's are notoriously hard to kill...
The franchise is battered, flayed, and perhaps limping but it aint dead till the red light goes out. -
when you hated Bale. I'm glad to see you've come around... although Terminator Salvation was his first truly bad performance, imo. "IF WE STAY THE COURSE, WE ARE DEAAAAD!! FUCKING DEEAAADD!!! DEEAD!!! AAAAAUUUGGGH!! I'm Batman." I might be paraphrasing.
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Because I really really want to see another Terminator movie without any blood or dread or...TERMINATING. Holy fuck. Salvation was a bag of dried dung.
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You may be correct... to a point. The films may get produced; but with Mc G as the main creative force, all future projects are doomed to sub-mediocrity.
Like Mattman said, Mc G is about as able to tell a story as a five year-old. -
Though I have always stated my favorite film of all time is Empire of The Sun.I do admit the Connor character in Salvation was one note, but Bale was fun as fuck to watch.
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T:S was simply bad. But I did laugh when Bale busted out the batman voice for his first encounter with Wright
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OK he's old now but FFS he alone would make T5 worth it. It opens with him escaping from a Skynet complex. We think it's a T-800 escaping but in fact it's the old HUMAN Arnold, shooting the fuck out of everything that moves. A digital young Arnold T-800 steps out in front of him at the end of the sequence and it's ARNOLD vs ARNOLD! We get a one-liner from the human Arnold about the age difference. Then he blows 'himself' the fuck away with a grenade launcher, very similar to T2. That's how I'd start T5 anyhow. Arnold then has to seek out John Connor (the Balenator)
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....older Arnold playing the real guy who was a Marcus sorta guy being experimented on....that would be fucking awesome.
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I never tire of that film.
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T4 hasn't done very well. It's overseas box office is good, but there's just no demand for this movie, and it's audience has practically deserted the franchise. Not gonna happen.
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....and his performance at that age is fucking stunning. The Berg should make it his only film he ever does commentary on. And I want a massive 2 hour retrospective doc with current interviews with the cast.
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T3 bombed domestically too. And look what happened.
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...The 3d experience at Universal Studios directed by James Cameron. And it was a great swan song. No one can interpret the story like Cameron and I've seen enough others try at this point.
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So they will be forced to set it in modern day with less CG.
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Just give Sylvester Stallone a smaller budget, and set him free to do whatever he wants. Im sure he could give us a Terminator movie much better than McG.
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back in time to Kill Mcg thus ending the apocalyptic shitfest known as Terminator Salvation and possibly T5.
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and pretends his glider is an enemy fighter is one of the most magical scenes in all of cinema. I hope Berg makes a sequel one day, featuring grown up Bale all fucked up from his experience, and beating the shit out of his family.
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Jun 09, 2009 1:33:58 PM CDT
To all the defenders saying the Terminator Salvation will make a
by willferret
However....considering the size of the investment $200M per film, the % of return, when you factor in all revenue streams, will be miniscule compared to other summer franchises, eg: Star Trek, Transformers, even something like Night at the Museum. The point is, from a business standpoint, their money would be better invested in another franchise or at the very least a new director and production team. If you really want to make a fortune, get out of the McG business, Warner Bros, otherwise you deserve your sub-par profit.
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...kids. You're all raving about how hardcore Expendables is gonna be while bitching about Salvation's weak rating, seems a bit hypocritical.
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Jun 09, 2009 1:34:53 PM CDT
o all the defenders saying the Terminator will make a profit
by willferret
However....considering the size of the investment $200M per film, the % of return, when you factor in all revenue streams, will be miniscule compared to other summer franchises, eg: Star Trek, Transformers, even something like Night at the Museum. The point is, from a business standpoint, their money would be better invested in another franchise or at the very least a new director and production team. If you really want to make a fortune, get out of the McG business, Warner Bros, otherwise you deserve your sub-par profit.
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What's your problem, dipshit?
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including the rights? or is that already paid and accounted for? (iirc it was $60 mil for salvation or something). How much would Bale get for a sequel? you gotta figure somewhere around 15 at least.
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The fact that they make it back proves it is a sound investment. Do you know what a tiny percentage of films actually make a profit? Its a very dangerous decision for studios to greenlight any franchise. Warners has their sure things -- Batman 3, Harry Potters.....so they're fine with having one franchise that breaks even. Its still a smaller gamble than new territory.
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Fact is, TERMINATOR SALVATION will end between 120-125 million domestic. Add another 250-300 million foreign and it will do a total of 370-400 million worldwide. Those numbers, plus dvd, toys, pay cable... etc will ensure one last (hopefully epic) TERMINATOR film. If the stupid fucks at the studios have any brains, they will ask/invite/bribe/fund Crusade/buy stock in Planet Hollywood/clean Arnie's toilets/shine his humve/walk his gog gustav etc...do WHATEVER it takes to get Arnie to executive produce T5 and play a resistance soldier and the evil Terminator in cgi form again. It's ARNOLD or fuck T5! In that case, bring on TRUE LIES 2, COMMANDO reboot or PREDATORS for Arnie's future action films!
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An R rating wouldn't have helped. The story was a mess and the characters flat... no amount of blood can save that. Although, the PG-13 thing just emphasizes McG and the studio's general lack of balls regarding this project. This movie did not progress the Terminator story at all. All that really happened was Bale got a new heart and a scar. Big whoop. We wanted to see him sending Reese to the past, and getting killed by the Terminator in 3 (Remember that? "I killed you.").
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The more ill will you garner for him. Seriously, why don't you try reverse psychology for a while?
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There will be no Terminator sequel, don't even waste your time thinking about it. The first one underperformed at the box office there will be no more. Nothing to see here, move along.
Oh they will remake the original in 5 years and it will be offensively bad, move along now. -
I liked T4, there were elements that were horrible yes, I just can't get over the intensity of the opening 10-15 minutes, and it kind of didn't let up (i'm referring to after Marcus is injected). I know they won't go with this as the entire premise, are we forgetting when McG's leaked ideas for T5 hit this site? He surely talks of Connor going back in time, but hinted at showing future and past, like mixing connor in the future fighting and explaining more and more things and then flip flopping to him in the past trying to warn everyone else, but of course they favor him a joke. I think that's a cool premise instead of just showing Connor in the past trying to convince everyone to shut down Skynet.
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If this is the proposed storyline, I'm done... I dont see how ANY half-way decent writer could fuck up a movie about the future war but T:S had about as boring of a plot as you can get. And this proposed storylines seems WORSE than that!!!I'm officially done with the Terminator franchise (unless they bring back the Sarah Connor Chronicles which I would MUCH rather see than T5)...
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Jun 09, 2009 1:44:22 PM CDT
The same can be said about T2. It didn't advance shit.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Think about it. T1 and T4 work together perfectly fine without good Arnie having ever existed.
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Lower halves of Bale and Robot get exchanged through tacheon overload mishap. Terminator experiences amazing sex with the Bale cock, destroys Skynet because human sex rules.
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"its beautiful" what an asshole. everyone of his line deliveries was laughed at.
ok, that wasnt the only thing that made this suck. -
He had all the talent needed to make a great terminator film. Bale, Worthington, a phenomenal special effects team, but when it comes down to it, the man simply can't tell a story to save his ass. To be honest, the only part of the film I enjoyed was the Arnold cameo. I guess the car chase was ok, but it had nothing on the chases in T2 or T3
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"Hasta ra vista, gwai lo!!!!"
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Damn you.
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Why is everyone complaining of the complexity of this series? It was always complex, christ I remember watching them as a kid thinking to myself "ok this isn't bad, but this will really rock my shit once Judgement Day actually happens and they have to somehow work this back into these movies." I just don't get it. It's not Saw for godsakes, its Terminator we're talking about here, this isn't jellybeans and candcorn stuff, this is for complex minds, if you can't keep up with the new stuff stick with the old.
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Jun 09, 2009 1:49:41 PM CDT
you can break down almost any action film like that....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....into simplistic plot points. Seriously....how did T2 advance the story? What really happened for 2 hours? John Connor falls in love with a robot? We see that Linda Hamilton became crazy Swat bitch. Okay. How does that affect the actual mythology? What effect did the inclusion of a good T-800 have on the big picture? None whatsoever. It was an excuse to cash in on the first film with nifty effects. Good T-800 does nothing for the larger timeline.
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McG did a kick ass job...it was better than 'Trek, period. I hope he gets a chance go do the next one.
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if you go into skynet's HQ, why wasnt it self aware of everything, and why werent there thousands of terminators everywhere? and bonham carter being the face of skynet? wow.
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....and he needs to go the fuck away from acting. And a few more Terminators would have been nice.
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*sad face* "and...and my brotha?"
*bale shakes head*
lol -
is they fix everything in the end. But that doesn't make sense, because then John would disappear, the Terminator would never exist, and Sarah would be back in a diner. But if John never existed, and Sarah never knew her destiny, she would never know to stop SkyNet and it would all start up again and -HEAD EXPLODES-. The first Terminator movie is the only one I need. It's a tight, sci-fi love story and ends on a wonderfully dark note.
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They defeated Skynet. Happy end. but than came T3 and disregarded it. Actually Terminator storyline(and every time travel story) is kinda stupid
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holy fuck was that delivery horrid. Even worse -- "IT WORKS....ITS BEAUTIFUL...."Bale should have screamed "Glad you can fucking read. Try acting motherfucker."
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I suppose if they half the budget, sack McCuntHackFuck, bring in a director with at least one testicle and go R, it might be savlageable
But I'm thinkin the wordwide gross ain't gonna make it worth their while. -
Mcg actually did a decent enough job on T4. I dont understand the hate. Vastly superior to t3
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I haven't seen it in a while, but didn't he act all weird like some junky, like whenever someone talked to him he was all poppin around and frigid?
And how did they work the end of T2 into T3? -
People with one name should be immediately disqualified from acting or directing. Which would solve two of Salvation's many problems.
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....and I agree that end is solid. "A storm is coming...." I was thinking what a bad ass fucking lead in that is to Salvation. When it comes out on DVD I really want to watch these two back to back. It feels like it will work well.
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I guess box office doesn't so much matter with DVDs and downloads. If they make this, I want my Watchmen/Minutemen prequel!
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Transformers II isn't going to cost under $200 million. Probably pushing $250.
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they put these rappers into movies for one reason only. We all know they want to gather a larger audience, but it seems kinda racist to me.
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Because my faith in Bale is strong.
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The cinematography. It had the gritty feel of the first movie. It felt small, almost 80s-ish. But the shitty editing killed it. The scenes jumped around so much... like the part where Marcus is outside SkyNet... and then suddenly he's deep inside it. McG has no idea how to transition his scenes.
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Speed Racer 2? Mr. Saturday Night 2?
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The only way it works is if the rest of the world gives a fuck about it.
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Come on, I respect what you're saying but any real Watcmen fan would piss on a prequel. Just wait for the 160 min Directors Cut and be happy with that.
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seriously, he must have been friggin pissed off to have to work with this guy...
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need to stop bitching. T4 was non-stop and intense. So it wasn't as classic as T1 & T2, what did you freakin' expect? I liked it, the action scenes were cool and I thought McG and everybody else involved did a good job.
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Apocalypto style.
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Jun 09, 2009 2:02:25 PM CDT
I agree....the photography, music, and tone.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....fit well with 1. Thats why I'm saying those 2 films can co-exist very well. Disregard the glossy shit in between. I thought the exact thing about the scale of it. It felt small. I love it when Bale sneaks into the Skynet compound at the end. That felt like Conan storming the fortress in some sword and sorcery film of the 80s. The way he was looking down at it from a tower at night, and it was just him sneaking around the obvious sets and a single Terminator guard passes. It felt intentionally old school.
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all i have to say is "it's beautiful"
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It told the story it needed to tell, and it told it perfectly. It isn't Batman Begins... which set itself up for much more, and paid off with Dark Knight.
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I cannot value your opinion on Salvation. I'm sorry.
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You could use Under The Hood as your basis, get a good writer, and expand on the backstory - staying true to the theme. Its not like that isn't done with every other comic adaptation - anyways, when they tried to treat the source material as sacred, it pissed everyone off.
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I hear ya, I love the way it has that unhappy gritty gray feeling, and I agree with McG, but a lot of it comes to the hands of the editor. For instance, Rob Zombie refused to have any part in Halloween 2 when he made 1. But he said in a recent interview that he was absolutely pissed at his editors when the movie first premiered and he hated his own film, so he said he would make H2 since it's now "his" film and he's got good editors now.
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It's awesome!!! I think you're the DGDB troll.
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as many others have said:
- There was nothing in T4's story that needed to be told. Sure take away the 'unstoppable B-Movie stalker' premise and make something new with the mythology but christ this wasn't a future war, more a panto baddie and ham fisted 'splosions' (TM Michael Bay)
- The stories that warranted telling were merely cockteased into warrant making another trilogy. A good story should be SELF-CONTAINED. Leaving the audience wanting more is something completely different
- The post apocalyptic crew looked remarkedly designer clothed and pristinely hairbuffed
- Bar Arnold's appearance there was nothing memorable in the film. At all. And this isn't to suck Camerons cock, as his movies have problems, but the ideas he tries to push and concepts that are highlighted go beyond the flashy lights and stick with you.
- These T5 rumours are hillariously bad but yet with McG at the helm (despite his attempts in interview to get people to 're-evaluate him) theres a part of me that probably thinks they will come to pass. London in 2011???? Or back in the past at all. For about a year McG banged on about making 'the future war' and now this. Christ. Distract this guy with Charlies Angels 3 SOMEBODY. -
Why?
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I'm consistent. And I have no zeros.
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I liked the shot inside the crashing helicopter that felt Children of FUCKING Men-esque. Other than that not much to like. This summer is quite a disappointment after 2008's great summer.
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Fo sho.
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He'd just shrug and say "I didn't see it happen!"
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But Watchmen isn't a comic, it's a novel in my eyes, it's one that just can't be touched twice. That's why Snyder gave US the fans Tales of the Black Freighter and Under the Hood as separate films, so we wouldn't ask for something like that.
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The scheme of Palpatine and Skynet are very similar
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He admits when he's wrong about a movie he thought was gonna suck, or vice versa. He likes what he likes.
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He's a viable candidate to direct T5, if not the best candidate.
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that was hilarious... they just seemed to be ripped and scuffed in all the right places
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John Conner sends X-Wings to battle terminators in space. Spends many a heavy moment glaring up at the moon shaking his fists.
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whether or not you liked the ending, that was a damn shock of a good film.
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but the sound design in T4 was kick ass as well. Plan to use the BluRay the way Seth Green's char used his stereo in The Italian Job.
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Didn't Alan Moore want to write a Minutemen backstory but got pissed off at DC before it materialized? There's a way to expand the story without turning it in to Neverending Story 2.
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All roads lead to Bale.
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When that plane came down I literally peed across 3 rows.
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Yes. Praise and obey.
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But I thought he did ok, kind of like Reeves in Street Kings, he went from that "Whoa, what's going on here brah?" to a fucking badass yelling "You got somethin to say you fuckin wetback!" then beating the shit out of people. Cage proved me wrong in the most important scenes, he genuinely acted concerned most of the time.
And Keeper, that wasn't Moore, Moore refuses to ever do anything more with Watchmen, that was Gibbons that approached him and DC were the ones pissed he wouldn't do it. Moore's a good writer, but he's a pompous ass. -
Terminator Salvation killed the franchise for at least a decade. This is just BS speculation by McG and/or his agent to drum up support for another and for damage control.
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Jun 09, 2009 2:15:27 PM CDT
THOMAS JANE WOULD'VE BEEN BETTER THAN CAGE IN KNOWING
by bringingsexyback
How about Jane as a Terminator? Can I get an Amen?
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Otherwise everyone would be making indie flicks...
$200 mil. budget + $100 mil. marketing campaign (domestic and foreign) + $60 mil obtaining Terminator rights + 70% studio/ 30% theatre revenues (domestic) + 60% studio/ 40% theatre revenues (foreign)...
Who the fuck green-lit this budget at Warner's? I'm sure on paper this looked like a sure-fire hit, but the cost of this movie is insane! I honestly don't beleive kids even know what a terminator is anymore, so I doubt all the kid-related merch is going to amount to much. It could do well on DVD's however:
A- DVD and blue-ray sales have been dropping.
B- It would probably still have to sell a ton of copies to make up the difference...
...but it's still in the realm of possibility, just not probability. -
making me happy.
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Seriously, he looks more like a Terminator than ever. Next Terminator film should be directed, and star, Sly. That is all.
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That wasn't pee, and I'd wager you might get a visit from the police for public obscenity.
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Jun 09, 2009 2:20:39 PM CDT
Praising Bale . . . Give Up Your Discredited Religion
by kevinwillis.net
Abandon your fantastical beliefs in the Bale, or you will be given the standard sub-standard training and face immediate de-resolution on the game grid. End of line.
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Wasn't that called JUDGEMENT DAY? Why would they waste time sending back tanks and robots to fight man one on one when Skynet already just hijacks the nukes and wipes out 90% of humanity? What could they do that would possibly be more effective than that?
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He was ok in the Punisher, very emotional and powerful, but Ray Stevenson needs more work, he rocked the War Zone era like Jane couldn't. Don't get me wrong, Jane was perfect for the Punisher opening but War Zone was all Stevenson. The Mist was Jane's best performance. But with Cage in Knowing, sure we would both agree another actor, i'm just giving him credit for stepping it up in the film.
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Isn't just box office and DVD sales. Rentals are still reasonably strong, which drives the most profitable DVD sales, anyway. There is also Pay Per View, cable, and network television. Things like Terminator Salvation can get a fair amount of play on cable and network TV, and become mostly profit, after the break even point has been reached. Thus, once Terminator Salvation cracked $300 million in world wide box office, it was pretty much guaranteed to be a profit center over time, at least in regards to the interesting accounting methods of the studios.
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Cease your heresy immediately. Bale is tolerant, but we are not.
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And Salvation is already 21% ahead of that pace. We are looking at around $450 total. That is a bomb?? I don't think so.
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They paid $50million,Sony paid $70 million to grab overseas distribution,Halycon stumped up the rest...
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They paid $50million,Sony paid $70 million to grab overseas distribution,Halycon stumped up the rest...
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It's machine against machine in many parts of the world. Skynet blames this divisiveness on malware created by John Connor, and seeks to destroy him therefore. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it.
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Jun 09, 2009 2:25:48 PM CDT
THE MIST IS WHY I THOUGHT JANE WOULD'VE BEEN GOOD IN KNOWING
by bringingsexyback
He exudes strong father figure. Cage made the grade, but that's doubtless due to Proyas' direction. I mean, I'm surprised Cage wasn't run out of the country after Wicker Man.
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In T2,it's his best role,everybody thought so...(c)Jack Slater,1993...
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To learn the tricks of the trade from Jihadis. He then time travels to his time and kicks major robot a$$.
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and celebrates at Cold Stone Creamery.
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Damn you for putting that back into my head!
I got one for you dammit, THE SKELETON KEY! haha -
The Punisher (1989) is far funnier than The Wicker Man!
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Recently saw The Uninvited and that was far superior PG13 "horror".
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To think otherwise is utterly asinine. It's made over $100 million domestically so far. Another $100 internationally. There's DVD/Blu Ray sales, cable/tv rights, iTune downloads, video game money, action figure profits, and lest we forget, the crème de la crème of any major motion picture worth its weight in celluloid, highly lucrative product tie-ins with companies like Pizza Hutt, Chrysler, Sony, and 7-Eleven. Of COURSE there will be a Terminator 5.
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I like Proyas. But after I, Robot....uhhhhh no fucking way should he come anywhere near a Terminator film. There would be no practical.
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..AND THEN A HOUSE DISAPPEARS?WHAT THE FUCK?
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T5 will still have to climb a mountain of shit-stink Word-of-Mouth. T4 is basically going to go down like Ang Lee's Hulk or Batman & Robin... Yeah they made 100+ but they were franchise killers because everyone who saw them said they stunk. T5 will not only have to fight through the stink left by T4, but it'll also have to be fucking good. Fucking good like T1 and T2 good. Anything less than that and T5 possibly goes down harder than Pluto Nash.
The rights holders best bet is to wait 10-15 years and do a reboot (I know, I know). But not a reboot of T1. Simply, they need a fresh timeline. Tell the story as if T1 hadn't happenened. Tell the story of post Judgement Day before the time travelling. So everyone is clueless about everything. Forget about T1 and come up with a new story.
That's the only way to continue making films off of the concept.
of course, the elephant in the corner is that maybe the franchise has run its course on the big screen and Hollywood should leave its corpse well enough alone. -
Jun 09, 2009 2:53:15 PM CDT
John Connor should go back and throw red matter at Robert Patric
by chuck_chuckwalla
Enough with the time-travel! It's getting lame.
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to take over this franchise -- but quick.
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i can't believe he did iRobot, thats a new for me.
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at the end of T5 to say one line:
"GET TO DA CHOPPAAAA!!!!!" -
The resistance celebrates the defeat of the machines with a rave.
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I hope you're fucking joking!
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Transforminator Motorcycles race Speed Racer style while taking drops of acid and forgetting their purpose of enslaving the human race
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Get fucking real. What an insult to the original. Adds absolutely nothing to the mythology.
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Proyas' movies have been visual delights. Look at Dark City for instance. Everything about that movie is chocolate for the eyes.Abrams is a television director only. His Mission Impossible movie looked like it was made for television and Star Drek had the same feel, no matter how many times Abrams throws in a gimicky lens flare.His best work was the pilot for 'Lost'. Which was made for television, thus proving my point.
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Slating McG is a little redundant. There's a posse full of average action directors out there and just a couple of decent ones. John Woo was meant to be Camerons go to guy and look at the shit he's got on his CV. To be fair I got no problem with his involvement as director but christ on a bike the script sure did suck donkey dick and that's where the problem lies. If I hate anyone it's the cunt who greenlighted this script and didn't stop to think for one fucking second! The script/story was horrendous and even Cameron could have made anything decent out of that. I'm very dissapointed in the whole thing. One thing that really annoyed me, apart from the assault on Marcus outside the SERECT HIDDEN BASE THAT WOULD HAVE ATTRACTED EVERY FUCKING TERMINATOR IN THE WORLD TO IT'S LOCATION,was the editing which was as choppy as hell. Despite not liking I will still sound out the directors cut as the additional rumured 40 extra mins intrigues me and may make for a smoother comprehensible movie, maybe.........
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Slating McG is a little redundant. There's a posse full of average action directors out there and just a couple of decent ones. John Woo was meant to be Camerons go to guy and look at the shit he's got on his CV. To be fair I got no problem with his involvement as director but christ on a bike the script sure did suck donkey dick and that's where the problem lies. If I hate anyone it's the cunt who greenlighted this script and didn't stop to think for one fucking second! The script/story was horrendous and even Cameron wouldn't have made anything decent out of that. I'm very dissapointed in the whole thing. One thing that really annoyed me, apart from the assault on Marcus outside the SERECT HIDDEN BASE THAT WOULD HAVE ATTRACTED EVERY FUCKING TERMINATOR IN THE WORLD TO IT'S LOCATION,was the editing which was as choppy as hell. Despite not liking it I will still sound out the directors cut as the additional rumured 40 extra mins intrigues me and may make for a smoother comprehensible movie, maybe.........
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2nd season of The Sarah Conner Chronicles > T5. And the season (series?) finale was 3x better than T5.
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2nd season of The Sarah Conner Chronicles > T5. And the season (series?) finale was 3x better than T4.
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2nd season of The Sarah Conner Chronicles > T4. And the season (series?) finale was 3x better than T4.
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2nd season of The Sarah Conner Chronicles > T4. And the season (series?) finale was 3x better than T4.
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for quad posts :(.
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All his earlier work seemed like sequels even though they weren't. Regardless I love his work, the one thing I could never get over is if you take The Crow and take Dark City and play them next to each other, they seem very visually similar. Which is another reason I was shocked by Knowing, because kind of like Raimi with Drag Me to Hell, he took all those underlying effects and humor/ etc. He added those without mimicking the visuals of his previous work.
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we get another dose of the lovely Monica Belluci.
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Which had Superman going back to a non-exploded Krypton and leading his people to victory over its tyrannical rulers. In other words, ITS FUCKING RETARDED.
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A director whose movie received a 33% rating on Rotten Tomatoes will be given another chance to deliver a cinematic stillborn.
It's made $105,568,008 so far. Anybody know how much it cost to make? -
A Skynet mech rolling up next to the monument....that'd be an awesome visual.
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From TMZ....
One of David Carradine's ex-wives tells us David's obsession with auto-erotica went so far, it involved Jesus.
Gail Jensen -- Carradine's third wife -- says she came home one day and -- starting at the door -- there were post-it notes with arrows leading into the basement.
Jensen says she followed the notes and found Carradine hanging from a rope, emulating Jesus Christ in body position. Jensen asked him what he was doing. David's response: "I really would like a sandwich."
Jensen says they were having people over, but David stayed in the basement while the guests ate upstairs. Gail says she went down to the basement several times to give him food and wine. Several hours later, he untied himself and joined the party.
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after hearing this news I've quietly begun my McG assassination plan. I'm gonna go back in time about a month a go and stop the release of salvation and then send michael bay back like six years ago to direct the charlies angels movies so that way well only have one hack directorrunning around making shitty summer movies and McG can stick to producing shit TV shows like the O. C.
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Jun 09, 2009 3:21:58 PM CDT
TurdontheRun -- what did T2 add to the mythology?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Other than neato effects demonstrations with liquid Terminator and Daddy Terminator? Really....what else did it add to the overall story?
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I have a feeling it might be real, because a lot of news site speak of the family telling FEDs to make sure they don't put up that pic, they were in utter shock, sounds like the real deal.
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Jun 09, 2009 3:26:36 PM CDT
Terminator Salvation was the best Terminator...
by dannyglovers_dickbl00d
reason? Fucking Bale professionalism. And the fact that I can't admit the guy I made an ironic hero of made a shitty movie. Uh... I mean-light trashing fucking Bale fucking professional.
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Harry finished eating!!
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And I liked Speed Racer!
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The movie has been disappointing at the box office: there is no other way to spin it. 105 million domestically, and 95ish million WW? the movie cost 200 million + whatever was spend on marketing...it will eventually ekk out a small profit, but you can bet that they were expecting a lot, lot more than the returns they are getting.
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I'm out of here for a little while. Thanks pal.
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Where I'm asking for admin status. Then it's bye-bye fucking Bale professional light trashing!
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It has only been in release for a few days overseas and already grossed 97mil. It will clean up overseas by the end of its run...over $300 overseas alone.
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Jun 09, 2009 3:38:52 PM CDT
"I can't admit the guy I made an ironic hero of made a shitty mo
by richard_gere_raped_my_gerbil
You took the words right outta the real DGDB's mouth, Imposter Danny. He'll never back down and say T4 was shit. How CAN he, after making a fucking website devoted to its star?
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...cares, Terminator Salvation sucked monkey balls.
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T4 was decent, but I was hoping they would end the damn storyline. Now, it's gonna be the same shit over and over. Fuck it.
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It's time to let this franchise die. It's no more than a joke now. If people aren't flocking to Salvation, do they really think anyone is gonna show up for another one? Especially with the ho-hum word of mouth?
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We all want more TERMINATOR dont we?
Okay T4 had a muddled storyline, a humor deficit, and a low-key ending.. but...
It also had great fx (Stan Winston practical fx as well as cgi), great set design, great acting (Bale, worthington and Yelchin), and most of all great action (shot straight without the add editing).
That ten minute sequence that began with the giant Harvester attack and then developed into a mototerminator chase and finished up on the bridge with the hunter killer was all kinds of awesome. Even the haters can't dispute that. -
Gerbil guy. Stick your 'furry friend' down your pants and let it wriggle, you beastiality-loving bastard.
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Jun 09, 2009 3:44:38 PM CDT
A damn site more than Terminaor Salvation did, that's for sure
by turdontherun
The whole point of Terminator was never about showing Judgment Day or the future war, or absurd time travel contortions. Therefore T2's dialectic themes about the 'morality' and duality of technology, the consequences of relentless, unpoliced research, and the obsessive nature of someone trying to stop the hands of fate and in the process becoming de-humanised, are pertinent expansions of the story outlined in the original. That's what the first two movies were actually about - the consequences and nature of fate, destiny, and free will. Much better than a story about how Bale got an artificial heart and a scar. It's of no consequence to T2 if further crappy sequels tried to negate it by explicitly showing if Judgment Day happened or not (and fucking up the timeline to boot), or if the character of Connor is played by a one-note dullard (guess who), who gives no indication that he's ever learned anything or shows any character advancement from the previous films, or gives the impression that he ever met a 'good' terminator and might have been changed by that experience. Yep, Christian Fail phoned it in; guess the lighting guy was in the right after all, eh? Make mine Pizza Hut!
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As Wyatt Earp in Tombstone; "The fight's commenced! Now get to fightin' or get away!" Salvation, poor as it was, started the future war portion of the saga. The fight has started now finish it in the future where the story will play to its end, the time for this happy time jumping shit is over... not to mention has been played out enough in Terminators 1-3. Show them sending Kyle back then move on. Finish the fight in the future damnit. Hopefully with all the old Cammeron night fighting, skulls, and lasers imagery.
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Another day, another Terminator rumor.
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Oddly enough it was Mori that contacted me about Hitfix. Sorry...looks like I'm gonna pass. Not a big fan of Access Hollywood. -
Jun 09, 2009 3:50:03 PM CDT
consequences and nature of fate, destiny, and free will.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Oh get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. T2 was an excuse to blow shit up and provide an impressive effects reel. When it came to the point where someone asked whats the sequel about, Cameron answered....I dunno-- we'll just do the same shit as the first one basically but we'll hip it up with humor and bad ass effects. No one will notice.
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You put into words what I couldn't.
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Having gone in knowing the originally intended ending you could see how the whole movie was geared towards the whole skin swap idea. McG should have had the balls to see it through. It still wouldn't have been great though. Loved Worthingtons American/Aussie accent ;)
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Totally uninterested. Last good Terminator was a lifetime ago in '91. Good luck at the box office - looks like the current film is crapping out. Real fanboys are going back to see Trek for a 2nd and 3rd time.
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I gotta admit that's a nice fucking name. Props man.
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Why should they keep making Terminator movies versus original ideas? More light trashing fucking professionalism! Now to apologize to Mori...
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Jun 09, 2009 3:55:52 PM CDT
And notice Star Trek is already a boring conversation?
by dannyglovers_dickblood
It will be forgotten. Nutty Professor films also made over 200 mill.
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..was, for the most part, a boring movie. Good cast though.
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Thank you good Doctor.
And DARK CITY is indeed a little sci fi gem. -
But it still had heart (the robot learning the value of human life, and a boy desperate for a father figure). It also had a coherent story and was well paced. I can't say the same for Salvation. Now, I'm not as big a T2 fan as everyone else... I don't think it's better than the first just because it's more expensive. The first is brilliant. And if you end the series there, it works perfectly. None of the sequels are necessary.
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He's talked about his intentions and the themes of T2 quite in-depth as seen in numerous interviews/ DVD supplements. Stop putting words in the mouth of Gods. Save that for your false heathen idols like Christian 'Anger Management' Bale!
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laughing his ASS off right now!
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It doesn't have the balls of the first film. It tries to make everything better. It's a kinder, gentler Terminator movie for mass audiences.
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I haven't seen the original since about 98-99, around the time it came out, however I have the Directors Cut which I guess was a huge deal, does anyone know the significant addins or differences of the two?
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HELLO MODS? Pls ban fakebl00d. Reasons:
1/ False impersonation and representation.
2/ Tiresome, dull and depressing. -
Yet it reads like it was written by a guy that thinks using his wife's face to clean the table is a generous act. Its well paced, I'll give you that. But the emotions feel artificial as fuck. And Furlong's acting gets worse each time I see it. Now a young Bale as Connor back in the late 80's? Now you're talkin', If only....image if he played him in T2. T3 Never ha penned....and he reprised the role 18 years later.
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Has more character moments, and has Jennifer Connelly actually singing (She's not bad). Great movie.
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One amazing action sequence that leads into another . . . but story-wise, boring and abysmal. I bought the Matrix Reloaded DVD, but have only ever watched from the chateau fight to the moment when Keanu snatches up Fishburne and the keymaster from the truck. (Okay, I watched the multi-Smith fight once.)
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with each of these shitty sequels the whole franchise becomes more and more laughable. The first 2 are classic, the others are garbage. Hollywood make some new shit already, come up with new ideas please! No wonder the country is going down the shitter, we have no fucking clue how to do anything inovative anymore!
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"...and provide an impressive effects reel."Riiiggghhhttt. And T:4 was...
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why did everyone make such a big deal of a directors cut then? I thought the movie was brilliant as is, was it just more heart or tension within the characters?
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A young Bale would've been amazing in that role. But I did love Hamilton and the arc her character goes through from one film to the next. And, as much as the idea of a good Terminator annoys me, Arnold's arc was very well done. His "character" very naturally progresses through the film. The whole movie hinges on that element and, for me, it really works, in spite of my reservations.
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mcg is a no talent hack. There I said it.
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of being upstaged in his films.
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Its one big fucking action scene. Of course it is. Post a quote where I claim otherwise. I'm countering the delusional stance that T2 is some big sweeping family drama because there are a few forced moments with a robot and a kid, and a fucking thumbs up while being lowered into lava!
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Yeah I dunno... it wasn't as good a DC as the Kingdom of Heaven one. But if you love the movie, then I definitely recommend you watch the DC. It's definitely more layered, if I remember correctly. I have the blu-ray but I only watched it once.
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I will say. It is pointless....but well done.
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Christian Bale goes back in time to stop Edward Furlong from getting the part and to stop T4 from getting made so he is the only actor to play John Connor in a movie.
I would pay to see that. -
Lacks a young Linda Hamilton's boobs being squeezed by Michael Bein. Thus, they will always be inferior.
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Even McG couldn't fuck up robots AND monkeys.
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...in the theatre when it came out. Had no idea what it was about before hand. That movie blew my mind. I just got done watchin Metropolis. Shit that movie is incredible too. What the eff? I don't know if anyone else got this feeling, but I think Bale really sank this movie. He's one of my favorite actors, but it's like he knew he was the diamond on top of the turd, and wanted to see it fail. He hijacked his own movie! Maybe it's just me. I did enjoy this more than Star Trek, but after a while, it felt like a chore sitting through the movie.
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What do T3 and 4 add to the mythology. Nothing- they were mere set ups to further money making sequels. All T3 purpose for existing was to explicitly spell it out for us and show us Judgment Day - that's not a story. And Judgment Day didn't need to be shown. But they did it so they could make more cash grab future war films. Ditto T4. The future war doesn't need to be shown (and what was presented there barely qualifies as the future war anyway). What, it adds to the mythology just by being set there? Get the fuck out of here with that shit! There are no themes to T4. There is no story. I'm no fan of Harry's reviews, but he called it right on this one. It's a story about how Connor gets that scar on his face. That's it. There is no arc. There are no ideas. And it ends just to set up further tortuous sequels. Say what you will about T2, but it sets up an interesting parallel dynamic with T1 - for example, Arnie taking on the cops at Cyberdyne is the inverse of his massacre at the station in the original. And Sarah living with the knowledge of an impending nuclear holocaust that she's powerless to stop, is an interesting dramatic hook. Plus, it was a thrilling story, with great characters and frankly unequalled action sequences, that you felt like you had been on a journey with. It had a purpose, both on an superbly entertaining surface level, and with some deeper resonances. T3 and 4 worked on neither of those two levels.
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Have to say I'm with you with T2. Great effects at the time, fun enough, but hardly the seminal classic it's being made out as.
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The squeezing of Linda's boobs was a masterstroke.
It was all fun and jokes at the time but sadly we'll never see Michael Biehn in AVATAR. Why? Jealousy. Biehn squeezed those tits sweetly, and Linda loved it.
Big Jim try as he might can't get over that. All he can do is masturbate alone over the 19 extra minutes of tit-squeezing he has on his private reel. Tissues at the ready. It's a sad story really... -
Jun 09, 2009 4:22:19 PM CDT
Banning Cobrai--Kai should exist in this dojo.
by dannyglovers_dickbl00d
Reasons? Hypocrisy. Unless repeating "_____ does not exist in this dojo" is somehow not tiresome and depressing. Cobra--Kai is about to get his fucking lights trashed!
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And have Arnie stick her head in a toilet. That's about it. The pacing, writing, and Nick Stahl torpedo that movie. Totally. And having John Connor not be remotely bad ass, ever--just stupid. Even the TV show realized you occasionally had to demonstrate what made John Connor the leader of the resistance and savior of humanity. Plus, the score was weak, Lots of problems with T3. Nothing wrong with showing judgement day--although the way they did it wasn't .01 percent as dramatic as Sarah's dreams in T2--but the whole movie was handled wrong.
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Leslie Hamilton Gearron. Big Jim kepts insisting on a threesome. Linda got tired of it. That's the real problem there.
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...admit it. I do enjoy 4, but I admit it is not unnecessary, as are all 3 sequels. T2 brought nothing new to the table. Everyone raves about 3 and 4 being cash grabs. Well waht the hell do you think was on Cameron's mind when he made T2? If he really respected his original work, he would have left it alone. It works perfectly fine as a standalone film.
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In a van down by the river.
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What's with the perpetual Cameron wife-beating jibes and nonsense? This is some sick misogynistic fantasy you've pulled out of the perverted recesses of your disgusting mind. Or possibly out of your constantly violated chocolate starfish. You cocoa shunter, you. At least we have genuine allegations that Christian "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" Bale actually threatened his mother and sister!
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. . . it is only released overseas, and the only way to see it in North America is by downloading a torrent. ;-)
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'What does T4 add to the mythology?' Turdontherun (and others)
John Connor as a wartime leader, instilling a fighting spirt n those that listen and leading from the front.
New TERMINATOR's - ragged T-600's, motoTerminators, hydroTerminators.
The organized resistance - Ironside and all operating from the sub and other bases around the world.
The sense of anarchy. Would-be rapists, etc (agreed that McG didnt take this nearly as far as he could)
SKYNET - we see inside their installations and motivations. Helena Bonham Carter is an 'avatar' for their psyche nothing more.
The power of 'free will'. Marcus has been made by the machines - but he is still human and ultimately that will determine the fate of the battle.
And finally, the fact that this is, in Bale's own words, only a battle won - not the entire war. Hopefully two more films to come. All true sci-fi fans should welcome another Terminator. Yes?! You dont want more Terminator? What the fuck is wrong with you? -
Would be Skynet sending Terminators back to the intermediate future/past kill the Schwarzenegger Terminator that was sent back in T2 to help Little John. And Big John has to say 'come with me if you want to live' to the Schwarzenegger Terminator for once and protect it from Skynet so that it can go back and protect him from Skynet. Now THAT would be convoluted.
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This is many many MANY years later, with rational thinking, they COULD salvage some damn good sequels. I guess the whole reason I loved TS was the fact that i've been teased all my life with little flashes of Judgement Day and then me and a childhood friend went and saw this on opening day and almost shit ourselves. It's one of those nerd things, to be honest, McG doesn't need the money, infact I think he built up a staple of shit films so he could go to a series he really loved as a child "Ergo Terminator" and try and do what he envisioned as a child. His camera techniques in this film were flawless, we really need to be hounding on the editor more than him. This is like if you or I set out to make a new trilogy for films we have a passion for, and in our eyes we make what we set out for, and then some fucking dumb editors ruin it. Idk, I just feel in this time of day we can make decent sequels.
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His name is Joseph Nichol, why does everyone endorse this stupid tosser by using McG...
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I think the main reason people 'hate' this movie is because it was directed by McG. I was fully aware of the negativity towards it but I make up my own mind about movies and you know what? I enjoyed it.
People seem too eager to jump on a hate/love wagon these days before even seeing a movie and already have their minds made up when watching it.
In my personal opinion I thought it was a lot more entertaining than T3 (which I thought was just an unnecessary, poorer version of T2).
So come on guys, do you really hate it that much or are you on the wagon just to be like everyone else? You're even rubbishing a 5th movie before it's even had a story line locked down for christ's sake! -
Or a garbage bin. Who cares.
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"In a van down by the river". Classic shit.
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http://tinyurl.com/m6p5ua
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Someone already said that joke about 4 hours ago. One thing is for sure, Salvation is a hell of a lot more inventive than your ignorant unoriginal ass. Pass that peach pie....beeeyatch.
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Verbally threatening a family member is not as bad as putting their head through a fucking wall in my opinion. And no-- I do not condone or endorse the abuse of women or any human being or animal for that matter. It is a fucked up cowardly act. Big Jim fits the bill.
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Doc, yeah and the comments you made bring to mind Harry's VAN HELSING review where he gave the movie a glowing recommendation on the grounds that it was Stephen Sommers childhood 'dream project'.
Well T4 may not have been perfect but it sure as fuck was better than VAN HELSING. Some tb'ers need perpective on this shit. -
I ran into McG the other day and asked him why the editing sucked, and he replied "I didn't see it happen."
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This movie did suck in many ways, but visually it worked as a big dumb summer movie. And when the bluray comes out you will have scores of people buying it. Rentals will be off the charts, etc...
So dont feel bad about the studios, they will get their money back on this movie... its all but guaranteed.
BTW, thats the main idea behind the "R" type movies being rater PG13... it virtually guarantees a profit for the studios even if the movie is a piece of shit like Wolverine.
If its PG13 then you will get a huge amount of extra revenue from dumb kids, dads who want to see an action movie but dont want to take the kids to an R flick, big families that have to please everyone in the group, etc...
And even then, if the BO is not huge, it will more than make up for it with sales of the video game and the novel and the comic book and the socres of toys and other promo items... not to mention the DVD sales which are generally through the roof for any big budget effects based genre movie with a star attached.
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an asshole? I thought it was well documented by now. The guy is a prick, beats women, can't hold a relationship, thinks he's God, and has no social skills (did you see him talking about Avatar at E3? Jesus.)
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Jun 09, 2009 4:51:55 PM CDT
In 10 years T4 will be on 'Best Action Film' lists.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....watch.
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Jun 09, 2009 4:52:36 PM CDT
And How Do You Know Jim Cameron Abused (Abuses) People
by kevinwillis.net
Did he put your head through a wall?
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Jun 09, 2009 4:52:47 PM CDT
For some reason people still defend Cameron's....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....character, "Dude the guy made T2 and Aliens-- he can cut a bitches head off for all I fucking care!!"
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I asked him how he plans on making T5 even better than T4. He answered "Adjustments."
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His photography was brilliant.
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if Cameron had actually done any such thing. But unfortunately it only exists as a demented fantasty in your mind - therefore, you are a sick, sick motherfucker. But don't worry, I'm sure JC forgives you in his infinite benevolence and wisdom (no, not that JC, the terminator guy). Though if you like, you should give Bale a call; I'm sure he will be happy to instruct you in the ways of his 'donkey punch' technique for disciplining impudent females.
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....down by the river.......I shot my baby...
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T5 is straight to video, right?
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Name one action movie released in the last decade better than Terminator 4. Name. One. 77% on Rotten Tomatoes? 77% of people are assholes. Jim Cameron beats women. Christian Bale also beats women, but who gives a fuck because it's Bale.
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And what the fuck are you talking about? JC: Prick - probably. Thinks he's god - certainly got a big ego. Can't hold a relationship - same story for many guys with money and choice. Beats women - NO. No social skills - er, his E3 presentation was absolutely fine. what the hell?I think Cameron is doing just dandy, reallyP.S. DGDB - T4 on best action lists?! Not in this reality.
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as part of some crap nudge/wink in-joke.And then bumps into Russell Brand in Carnaby street. And you see some T800's marching outsides te palace with those big furry black hats on. Cor blimey.
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but that's only because Bale doesn't like to show off.
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Clearly, if you watched his E3 presentation and thought it was "absolutely fine," you are on Cameron's level. Which means you're a prick, you beat women, can't hold a relationship, and have no social skills. All you need to do now is make a few blockbuster movies, and you'll be just like your hero!
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Jun 09, 2009 5:13:02 PM CDT
box office numbers have little to do with the movies quality
by bmacsmith
i gave T4 a C grade, but saying its underperforming because its bad is just silly. remember Wolverine? Remember Paul Blart:Mall Cop? This movie is doing poorly because the competition was too tough and someone should be fired for setting that opening date. The next Terminator could be made by the same people and be just as bad as this one, and it could make 200 Million. People just watch whatever is out. prepare for you faith in humanity to be completely destroyed when the piece of shit Bayformers 2 breaks box office records and even worse GI Joe makes a ton of cash.
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He was an engaging speaker; the audience was in the palm of his hand! Waffling on for a bit does not qualify as 'no social skills'. Or are you just jealous that Cameron has bigger gonads than you?!
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Is this worth seeing?
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What competition? The films last summer had no problem shrugging off their competition. I was shocked it did that poorly. It had great marketting and was poised to open HUGE. But too many people remembered Terminator 3, perhaps.
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Fuck that - Connor ISN'T meant to be a bad-ass. Stahl played him the way he's meant to be played, a guy in over his head but still trying to make a difference.
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You guys speakith of the truthith. Let no one foul mouth you because they can't defend their words. And also Cobra Kai, you are also among the greatest here at Aintitcool.
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And your guys' sad devotion to this weird religion has not helped you conjure up anything resembling a convincing argument to the contrary.
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for Mother's Day. Bale? Two uppercuts and a right hook.
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...takes out James Cameron before he even considers making that tongue in cheek T2. Don't kill anyone? My ass!
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loserguy3000, um, perhaps you havent seen it but the role of 'the Terminator' is still Arnie's in T4.
Actually it was big Jim that gave it to someone else - Robert Patrick in T2. -
he keeps getting attached to all these movies, forgetting the fact that he is an ancient politician now. He never had the acting skills to begin with, now he doesnt have the muscles to back him up. he will end up playing the same role in every movie: the old veteran hero who is passing the torch to some new guy. I dont really care to waste my time.
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It's alarming that you know the size of Cameron's balls... and you are quite possibly the only person on Earth that found his rambling, babbling speech engaging. "The... uhhhh... atmosphere of... uuuurrhrhjg... Pandohraaahhh... is made up... primarily... of ummmm... a combination of... UUUGUGHGHGHGHG... oxygen... and... UUUUUUUUGGGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHG.... *sci-fi bullshit*..."
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Dr Loomis you are both wise and generous. Perhaps you will let me crack open the medical cupboard and get high on your own supply?
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If MGM or some other company grabs the rights we won't see Bale.
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Keep up the good work!
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Why do fuckers always talk about time travel like it's an actual phenomenon that we know and understand?
We don't even fully understand economic theory as we've seen in the last year, so how is it that wild talkback monkeys claim to understand the nuances of timelines and changing history?
This shit happened on the Star Trek TB too.... heated arguments about whether changing history will change the timeline or create an alternate reality.
That's like stating what US foreign policy would be if a Smurf became president.
Seriously, WTF? -
isn't he the guy making teen sopa-operas on tv? where the fuck is Cameron?
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Making Avatar.
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I like you now because you complimented me. I'm easy.
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I will take the padlocks off my supply. But I do recommend watching Behind the Mask: The Rise of Leslie Vernon if you haven't already. If you have, then you are Dr. Cobra--Kai in my eyes.
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Oh wow, you truly are the shit, Loomis. That movie's great.
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Whenever I pop it in I see all these critics praising it on the cover, where the fuck is the fan base now?
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...Bale ends up in London after the Reign Of Fire dragons have already messed up the place. Terminator-killing Bale eventually meets dragon-killing Bale, they team-up, and they let rip!
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I'LL BE SKIPPING THAT ONE AS WELL...
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Bald Matthew McConaughey leaps at giant, towering Terminator... gets eaten.
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It's simple. There are two acts of time travel.
One terminator is sent back, a CSM-101.
One man is sent back, Kyle Reese.
That's it.
T2 and T3 are fan fiction. They use a different time travel model and are incompatible with the first story. The Terminator uses the single timeline model, the same as stories such as La Jetee or Twelve Monkeys. In this model, time travel NEVER changes the past. It only ever completes a loop, meets up with what was already there.
T2 and T3 are about creating alternate futures. They do not live in the same narrative universe as The Terminator. They are essentially the equivalent of, "What If The Thing Fought The Hulk?" - non-canonical. High budget fan fiction.
Salvation seems prima facie to be a legitimate sequel to The Terminator, even if not an especially great one. It doesn't acknowledge T2 or T3, which is a good thing. You could watch The Terminator and then Salvation back to back and not have the sense that any chapters were missing.
It's amazing that so few people understand The Terminator properly, and see why T2 cannot possibly work as a sequel to it. -
"Its about time we all realize that a Terminator without Arnold isn't worth shit"
Speak for yourself. I always loved the conceptual universe, not Arnold. -
"you see the ONLY reason to have these sequels is to play out the future war against the robots. The terrifying thought that humanity is on the verge of extinction. That we have primitive weapons to fight against a relentless technically superior enemy. The only hope emerging - from John Connor: the saviour of mankind. This is interesting stuff and if done well could make some great, epic sci-fi action films.
First shot across the bows was not up to much - but why the fuck would you want more time travel bullshit which diverts away from the future war? We WANT to see Connor as leader of the resistance. We WANT to see it getting grim and bleak. We WANT to see how it is brought back from the brink and the humans can triumph against all odds.
Travelling back in time was the shit that happened in THE FIRST 3 FILMS. We do not need to see any more of this."
Well said. I agree with all of the above. No more time travel, thanks. -
Kaitain = winner of this talkback.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:03:46 PM CDT
Every one who saw TS and then bitches about it makes me sick
by semen stains
cos you all bitched about it before hand and yet paid to see it,lowest of the low and you killed Jesus.
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Well, erm, the trailers were good.
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as a human, and then they use her image for T-X. McG you're so freakin predictable. And that's coming from a guy who thought TS was coo'
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"That event already happened, and it created the alternative timeline/future that John inhabits right now."
No. There is no "alternative timeline". What you have to bear in mind is the following:
There was NEVER a timeline without Reese and The Terminator. There was NEVER a version of 1984 in which Reese didn't get Sarah pregnant,
That might seem odd to our conventional notions of temporal succession, when 1984 MUST come before 2029. But in the universe of The Terminator, both 1984 and 2029 exist SIMULTANEOUSLY and always have done. Think of the entire universe's history as one giant static hypercube. Unchanging. All change is subjective. It's like calculus: something that is static in one dimension seems to be moving in another. Something that varies with respect to X on one level is a constant when you integrate to a higher level.
The obvious question to be asked is, "So why the hell does the universe exist with this weird loop in it? Where did it come from?"
Fair question, but you might as well ask the more standard version of this question:
"So why the hell does the universe exist?"
(Shrugs.) For the purposes of the story, it just does. It exists as an internally-consistent static structure, but its origin is a mystery. In fact, one could look at it and make a strong case that it had been designed. (Stronger than the case for our own universe.)
Incidentally, the thing that demonstrates that The Terminator is not a story about branching, alternative timelines is the photo of Sarah. That's the proof. That's why it's there. Is purpose is to demonstrate to the viewer that we are in a SINGLE timeline with a loop, NOT a new timeline that has branched off from the old.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:12:36 PM CDT
Evil Arnie vs. Michael Biehn, featuring Linda Hamilton's tight a
by prossor
that's why T1 was so awesome. Those things put together. I mean that ass in those tight jeans, WOW! It would have been funny if Reese and T800 are battling it out at the club like two time warriors out of Highlander, and after flying through a couple windows and bars they see Linda Hamilton's tight ass and just stop shooting and everything is still. "baby got BAWK" remarks Arnie and then Reese high fives him, just like out of Naked Gun 2 when Frank and the badguy stop struggling and together stare at the chick in the shower.
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"That ten minute sequence that began with the giant Harvester attack and then developed into a mototerminator chase and finished up on the bridge with the hunter killer was all kinds of awesome."
I agree. I thought it was a terrific sequence. Only nit-pick is that the cycles seemed unnecessary when the giant harvester still had its gun operation. But that's a minor niggle. I was glued to the screen. -
damn cutoff. i think arnie even said he was a butt man "and now we come to my favorite part of the human body, de ASS!!!"
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I was assuming this new trilogy would end with the discovery of the time thingy within Skynet (remember the "we'd won line?), and Reese going thru the portal chasing the T. Now it seems like they're moving things up. Dammit, keep it for the final chapter.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:17:05 PM CDT
Let us not forget The Day the Whole World Went Away.
by dr. samuel loomis
Totally sold the trailers and the film. Just hearing Trent Reznor in between Connor's amazing radio reports was enough for me.
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Think about the Fibonacci sequence. 1,1,2,3,5,8,13 etc.
You can regard this as being something dynamic and changing. You have 1 and 1. POW! That causes 2, dynamically. Now - POW! - that causes 3, dynamically. Then 5. Etc.
Or you can think of the entire thing as being a static sequence that just sits there like a dumb shit, never changing:
1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21...
So you could also have a slightly weird variation sequence in which you assert that the fifth member of the sequence is formed, unusually, by adding the fourth member to the final digit of the 10th member:
1
1
2
3
6 (3 + 2nd digit of 63)
9
15
24
39
63
102
165
So in the case of the fifth member, you might say, "How can I get the last digit of the tenth member? It doesn't even exist yet!" But you can see that the sequence as constructed conforms to the stated rules just fine. Now, only certain sequences WOULD confirm to these rules, and this is one of them. There could be others. But there is nothing contradictory about the sequence's fifth member being influenced by the tenth. This is the nature of The Terminator's narrative universe. -
I had high hopes for this franchise. It could have even been salvaged even after McG fucked up Salvation -- but if this is the garbage they're going with, fuck Terminator and fuck McG. The franchise is officially dead. Hopefully Bale has the sense to back out while his career is still awesome.
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Fuck McGinty. Fuck McGinty. Fuck McGinty. And let's start calling him that. He hasn't earned the respect to be called whatever he wants. This isn't the episode of Seinfeld where George wants to be called T-Bone. And McGinty should not get to be called whatever he wants. Again, fuck McGinty.
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Jun 09, 2009 7:40:56 PM CDT
why do I get a Resistance: Fall of Man vibe from that idea?
by the amazing g
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They're not going with this. Trust me, McG had a leaked plot after TS about the plot, it involves Connor or his teenage pappa going back, but you no need worry about this dumb plot that is a fraud. Keep your faith brotha.
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McGoogles is me name.
Let Max Keeble fuel your rage. -
First you need news that there will be another movie with this cast and director....then crazy ideas to follow.
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that anyone thinks there will be another terminator movie, or at least with the same creative team, after the disaster that is T4, or that despite how much it has failed on every level, there are these Bale zealots (who seem to have forgotten, or yikes! did nt realize that the whole Bale praise thing was a joke) are trying so hard to clutch at straws in an attempt to defend this bad movie. Well, all I can say is good luck with that guys, keep fighting the good fight, and trying to convince yourselves. Because you know who you are nt convincing? Most people/geeks/sci-fi/action fans. Just like this movie could nt convince critics it wasnt crap or most ticket buyers to give a shit about it...
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ting his wives. You mean like how Bale beat the shit out of his mother? Who do you think hits harder? ...you know? since we re just going to fabricate complete bullshit out of thin air I want to join in the fun.....
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They finally move away from fucking time travel and now they wanna go back? McG is retarded.
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Such a good comparrison between them.
Alien and Terminator - both classics, relatively simple, but really well made.
Aliens and T2 - both brilliant, bigger scale, seem more action/sci-fi than horror (compared to the first ones). My favourite one from both the series.
Alien 3 and T3 - Both big letdowns in comparrison to their predecessors.
Alien Resurrection and Terminator Salvation - Again pale into comparrison with the first two, though I think Alien Resurrection shines a little brighter than TS. -
After I saw The Hangover last weekend I was walking out of the theater and noticed a marquee with showtimes for Terminator Salvation. I had completely forgotten about the movie. It was an "Oh yeah, that movie exists and I don't care" moment. Brought me by Depends.
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i cant remember one
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whos gonna pick up the tab for the next one? if 3 studios actually did pick up the bill, i guarantee, due to piss poor performance, at least one will back out and no one is gonna be rushing to pick up the fumbled ball.
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...If the former CEO's of Chrysler and GM suddenly took over Hollywood. It would be the same business model.
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Oh really? Did you know movies aren't real too, numbskull?
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pronto!
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Jun 09, 2009 8:56:16 PM CDT
T:4 is a huge hit worldwide, folks! Fuck our box office...
by bob cryptonight
There will definitely be a sequel.
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I'm getting married in the morning.......
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the fact that the remnants of the first terminator allowed SkyNet to develop the technology in the first place. not saying that it's brilliant, but definitely adds to the existing story.
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Interesting clash of der Wills here. I enjoyed T4. I did NOT think it was a great, classic entry in the series, but it was ala #3, it worked. It moved along the plotlines and etc. It showed us the future war, it showed us the Older Connor, it showed us Ahnold doing his thing in the future (CGI Ahnold yes...), it showed us a Big Fucking Robot, and a 4 second Jane Alexander Cameo(TM). C'mon who didn't like that?! Worthington was a block of wood but I found myself rooting for him during the movie as it went along. I also liked the side characters, even our little prop-like mute black kid, the chop-socky gal and Michael 'the check is in the mail' Ironsides in the sub, plus Yelchin as Connor's kid(?!) he was good too. So what's the problem? Let's see if they actually make this one work. I thought it would be a bigger hit, but then they DID put it out between Trek and Up. Why not in mid-June a couple weeks before Big Fucking Robots? Donno! but anyways. I was entertained, I thought McGoofy there made a pretty good Terminator flick and if they have him do the next one, I'm all for it.
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Great Heroes need great villians. Blockbuster 101. What's with the overacting Helena Bonham Carter as Skynet ? Bad decision.
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Thats right fuck you, you piece of shit!
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Just continue the fucking war.
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Christian Bale isn't Welsh. He tells everyone who'll listen that he's English. Check out his IMDB or something.
He was born there, 'cause his dad was based there in the military or something (RAF I think). To quote him, he doesn't mind being called Welsh because he thinks it "sounds poetic".
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why everything has to be explained. Like Kyle Reece always wore Nikes, or Robert Patrick was a scientist etc. It isn't necessary.
London sounds like a good idea though! Like it's maybe a place where the machines are being resisted or something. -
And it was kind of bittersweet, there is like zero chance of a movie that good and that oriGNAL ANYTIME SOON
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I just want to see the war with the machines like they had it in the first terminator movies. Am I the only one that wants this? At this point I think I'll see a real war against sentient machines before I see this on film.
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If the movie had been a prequel to the original seen from the dystopian future building the relationship between Kyle Reese and John Connor and ending with cgi arnie and kyle reese going back in time, it would've been worthwhile. What was that shit with Marcus if he dies at the end, wasting so much time with him... Besides
Kyle Reese in Terminator says they blew up the time machine, so none of the other terminator movies count for shit, cuz I don't know how those terminators traveled back in time. -
are the same guys that hate Transformers so much, because while T4 has more coherent action scenes, its just as dumb and hollow as that movie....
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performing, because if this is the level of quality we can expect (and they re going to give these movies to guys like McG) then I dont want any more Terminator films, just please let terminator die with a little bit of dignity left. And dont tarnish it anymore with useless movies like T4 that add fuckall to the mythology and dont even maintain the quality of the previous films....The dude that compared this to Alien/Aliens and the shit that followed was pretty much dead on the money...
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To explain where John Connor got his English accent.
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While I was watching Star Trek's opening, I was thinking
"Wow, this would have made an AWESOME T4 future war opening!"
Imagine a Star Trek style opening for T4, except that it's Kyle Reese being born, and his father is a brave fighter that sacrifices himself.
Baby Reese is taken away by fleeing civilians....close-up shot of Baby Reese's innocent eyes....
Terminator theme music starts...TITLE CREDITS...
That would have been awesome! That was my vision for T4 while watching Trek!
But instead, T4 starts with some dude we dont even care about, wandering around...huh????
IT SHOULD HAVE STARTED WITH KYLE BEING BORN!!!!!!!!!!!! -
...like it never existed as the first Hulk movie.
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It hasn't even come close to making its money back. It's the fucking Terminator franchise and it didnt even open number one. I'll be shocked if they let McG handle a sequel.
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If they kept him as a baby, it would also have made more sense too, like he gets captured in amongst the other humans & Connor finds out, so he has to rescue him from Skynet, before Skynet realises who they have.
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I agree with you that T4 should have had a star trek type opening, but not the way you describe. I just tihnk it should have started as intense and badass as that this way. T5 should start with Bale and Reese blasting their way through a skynet facility, huge battle style, towards the time machine, and end with Bale sending Reese back in time, thus fulfilling the timeline of terminator we know of so far, and allowing the story to continue into a part of the frnachise we know nothing about. He sent his father back, he still exists, hes fulfilled his destiny. Now what? John Connor could die, possibly, now right? I want to see that fucking story play out. Anything else is an unecessary footnote in the franchise that doesnt need to be told.
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Someday I'll make a follow up to T2. Even if I have to film it with puppets and cardboard, it will have more respect for the franchise than McGerminator's masterpiece. Seriously buddy, WTF. I thought Singer destroyed Superman, but you really outshined that turd.
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Is that what your mom tells you?
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lame, now you're gonna get the credit. :(
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It would be a shoutout back to T1, where the T-800 had to look through all the Sarah Connors one by one.
Now, here we have John Connor, fighting the future while multiple surviving families out there are named Reese. Where is Kyle/Kyle's mom and are they still alive? -
it by night at the museum. Lets just repeat that....a Terminator movie got its ass handed to it by night at the museum! Fucking hell, even T3 did way better than this turd of a movie...
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dvd copies of T1 and T2, I can just pretend T4 does nt exist....so whatever...let McG and his like fuck it up as much as they can....
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I thought Terminator was about the Connor family.
Kyle Reese
Sarah Connor
John Connor
It's supposed to be about these three people, and the machines, right? Why did, out of left field....why are we suddenly looking at Sam Worthington?? (nothing against Sam) -
It isn't the best film I've ever seen, but I've seen worse. T3 for example!
People here act like it's the worst film ever made. -
Jun 09, 2009 11:34:24 PM CDT
Connor family should be the sunn, everythin revolves around them
by gibsonusa returns
T1 and T2 told the Sarah Connor story. T4 was the perfect opportunity to tell the Kyle Reese story, and how he got to Sarah. John Connor, of course, is the bridge, meeting both of them. It revolves around the Connors.
Where did this stupid Marrcus idiot come from???? Left field. -
This franchise is now dead to me, as is fuckwad McG. I used to like the director and had high hopes for "Terminator Salvation," but then the train crashed and burned beyond repair.
I agree with Joker Gordon Levitt: this is a truly awful idea. The "Terminator" story is done, it's been told, and it WAS done after the first film, regardless what McBullshit wants us to believe. Yes, "Terminator 2" was cool, and marginally fits the storyline, but everything else, movies and tv shows, to me never happened.
God, I'm sick of McG and his horrible, braindead screenwriters and producers.
As I said, this franchise is dead to me.
Never thought I'd say that... -
was meant to be Bale's role & John Connor was supposed to be a pereipheral figure. Bale had it changed, so he could be John Connor in a beefed up role.
I guess they did a pretty slap-dash job of that. Hence the movie essentially has Marcus as the hero & Connor pretty much sidelined to supporting role. -
who cares? Anyone who has seen T4 will know its pretty much over now. McG has fucked all the life out of the franchise. Retards rejoice! More shitty, dumbass Terminator movies coming! Yee Haw!!!
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Jun 09, 2009 11:41:43 PM CDT
How did they plan to jumpstart a trilogy with Marcus?
by gibsonusa returns
T1 and T2 are classics with classic characters. Why would one decide to jumpstart a franchise with a brand new character? Why not leverage what already exists?
Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese are the foundations of T1. T2 followed Sarah.
Why not let T4 follow Kyle Reese? You could build a whole trilogy on Kyle's journey to the time machine. Sheesh...why Marcus? -
Regardless of the script changes made by Bale. Trust me, I'd RATHER see the original script, but the character marcus being Kyle Reeses father figure is still pointless to me.
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like Gibson said. word.
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Is basically "Friendly Arnie" from T2/3, but with more personality.
People can blame Mostow or McGimp, but Cameron started the slide into family friendly Terminator movies. I think once T2 had been made, the die was cast. There's simply too much money to be made for the studios to care whether the die-hards get their "Killer Robots" movie.
Think about it, how many people did you see die in Termaintaor Salvation? I mean, actually SEE it happen, on screen? It's a toy commercial.
Incidentally, it's looking like it's gonna do really well in Japan. There's a lot of buzz around it.
It's possible however, that it's the buzz of flies around shit:-). -
Is that why Kyle Reese plays second fiddle to this random Marcus dude? Did they want to insert their own little hero into the Cameron-created universe?
You've seen Sarah! You've seen Kyle! You've seen John!
NOW CHECK OUT....MARCUS!!!!
I'm just guessing, of course. But I just cant figure out where the heck this Marcus dude came from, when Kyle Reese was the obvious choice star for T4.
I actually like McG. He seems cool. I'm just talking about the storyline here... -
that I only ever write backwards/dyselxic shit like "Termaintaor" on the ONE site I frequent without an edit button? Shit!
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Until its completely run into the fucking ground and totally pissed all over the source material. Its made so every inbred moron can grasp the plot line without straining those couple of brain cells. So that every fan of the original is complettly in a total piss fueled orgy of hate. That is when is a real SF franchise.
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T2 and T3 being fan fiction, and Salvation and T1 being all that matters and all that truly makes sense. Amen.
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The whole 7/11 Chase Sequence was fucking brilliant. I also enjoyed resistance guards pummeling the shit out of Marcus when he escapes, reminded me of Robocop. And the climax action sequence is balls to the fucking wall. Its not traditional action climax we've become accustomed to. There aren't hundreds of indistinguishable CG characters going ape shit, so modern audiences may have found it a bit lacking. But I loved the fact it was so small and they kept it old school with one T-800. I enjoyed all the action. And I thought it was all very well shot and the CG was tastefully done.
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Enjoy True Lies. Ha.
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Jun 10, 2009 12:06:54 AM CDT
Of course it was......because the golden schnoze touched it.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
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NOBODY EVER DEFEATED SKYNET! THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE WITHIN THE WORLD ESTABLISHED IN THE FIRST TWO MOVIES! Now surely it is true that the CHARACTERS in Terminator 2 THINK that they defeated Skynet. But they absolutely fucking did not. First off, it is a direct sequel to The Terminator, and takes place in the EXACT same world. Since The Terminator CLEARLY showed that it's impossible for Kyle Reese or the Terminator to change the past, then that AUTOMATICALLY applies in Terminator 2 as well. Secondly, just as John Connor would not exist without Kyle Reese going back in time, Terminator 2 all but says that Terminators would not exist either if The Terminator had not gone back in time. In short, this is another clear example showing that what has been "changed" is what ALREADY FUCKING HAPPENED. Which means that the Terminator HAD to go back in time, since there was ALREADY a Terminator in the past. This also means that Judgement Day CAN'T be stopped or even CHANGED in any way, because THERE WAS A TERMINATOR IN THE PAST. Judgement Day HAS to happen in order to preserve the sequence of events by which the past had a cause. And this means that ANYTHING that ANYONE does in Terminator 2 DOESN'T CHANGE SHIT. If they destroy the microchip from the first Terminator, it doesn't change a goddamn thing, since that then necesarily means that the microchip being destroyed was ALWAYS an event that occured at that location in spacetime. And thirdly, NOTHING in Terminator 2 actually indicates that they DID defeat Skynet. NOTHING. The entire "stop Judgement Day" subplot was ENTIRELY driven by the ASSUMPTIONS of the characters, and NONE of those characters had any reason to know shit about what would happen. And anyone who disagrees with me is just plain wrong. By the end of Terminator 2, Judgement Day is STILL going to happen EXACTLY like it was always supposed to. And that all got fucked up because the writers of Terminator 3 were too stupid to understand a goddamn movie about time-travelling robots.
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It may be for the thousandth time, but nobody's asking for it.
& it was a perfectly good movie. Not bad, not amazing. Good FX, nice to look at, well put together.
Our fat friend jumped the fridge shark on that one. -
Starring Carrot Top as John Connor, Judi Dench as Sarah Connor, and Mel Gibson as Skynet
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Jun 10, 2009 12:23:34 AM CDT
veebeeyes -- so you admit T2 was pointless......
by dannyglovers_dickblood
T1 and Salvation are all that matters. I threw away my copies of 2 and 3 earlier when I realized this.
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"I'll be back..um..er..I mean..I might leave soon and if I do, I erm..uh..well, I might possibly return. That is if you don't mind..I mean.....not that I'm assuming you'd like me too. Be back..I mean."
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Some of them, as previously stated...
- A Star Trek style opening that introduces a character. They could do the aforementioned Kyle Reese being born thing, then after the title credits, jump to post-T4 when he's a young adult.
-Focus on Kyle Reese. This is Kyle's journey to the time machine. He is the lead. He is the star.
- Arnold Schwarzenegger. Playing a human? It would interesting to see him get thrown around by a T-800.
-Robert Patrick. I like McG's thoughts on showing the origins of liquid metal, but...
-NO TIME TRAVELING. Maybe at the end show the T-800 going back to 1984 (if you gotta do it during T5), but thats it. NO John Connor Deloreaning it all over the place.
-Christian Bale is back.
-THE THEME MUSIC. During the opening titles.
-Rated R for violence and graphic images of war. -
A lot of people hate this flick....maybe i will save my money and not watch this crap.
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defenders dude, truly an exercise in desperation. How is T4 any less dumb and hollow than Transformers? The story is minimal, there little characterization, Bale is boring and one note, and skynet is super dumb. Was an actual script actually written for this? Never mind that it does nt even deliver on what the previous movies promised (wow, how imaginative its set in the south west desert, Ive never seen that before *coughmadmaxcough*), shit we dont even get an epic future war, how the fuck did this movie cost 200 mil? And its completely watered down violence wise, so why isnt that a problem considering your hate of T2? No thanks dude you are most welcome to T4, and you can keep McG too....I will gladly enjoy True Lies...
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from the guys that brought us Catwoman....another misunderstood classic apparantly as that script was only slightly less stupid....
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Jun 10, 2009 12:45:15 AM CDT
Oh yeah, and John Connor should be wisecracking again.......
by gibsonusa returns
T4 John Connor sounded nothing like T2 John Connor....
It shouldn't have been
"You killed my mother, Sarah Connor..."
It should have been
"You kiled my mom Sarah Connor you f*cking douchebag!!"
NOW I know THAT is John Connor. :P
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Making a sequel to The Terminator is inherently like making a sequel to 12 Monkeys. Once you're of the realization that absolutely no character in the movie has any control over their actions or motivations, who gives a shit?
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DEATH OF FRANCHISE
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Jun 10, 2009 12:53:43 AM CDT
Oh yeah, and a T5 extended blue tint night war sequence....
by gibsonusa returns
Fans have been waiting forever for that.
The Harvester scene in T4 was pretty cool, but its not what people were waiting for. People wanted one of those future war scenes from T1/T2 made to full length.
A hard-R extended nighttime blue-tinted battle sequence in the city would shut up a ton of complainers imo. Thats what people have been starving for. -
Jun 10, 2009 12:53:55 AM CDT
So the plot involves robots from the future travelling to the pa
by mitortilla
FUKIN' BRILLIANT!
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So the plot involves robots from the future traveling to the past to acquire a future technology?
Bloody Brilliant! -
Gotta be skulls everywhere.
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But you know what I mean...he had a chill attitude and a specific personality...T4 seemed like a different person.
"Easy money!" -
Jun 10, 2009 12:59:47 AM CDT
Skulls everywhere justifies a cool R-Rating!!
by dannyglovers_dickblood
Cause this franchise is for fucking adults!My head hurts right now and I don't remember enough about T2 right now to debate. But I will say.....T1,2,3,4....the worst scene in any of them is far better than that foul piece of shit Star Trek reboot. Thats for damn sure.
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Terminators ripping people apart. Skynet disposing of civilians they have destroyed.
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I HOPE THE LASER GUNS FROM THE JAMES CAMRON INTROS ARE INTRODUCED IN THE 5TH MOVIE ALONG WITH A COMPREHENSIVE EXPLANATION FOR THEIR CREATION. ALSO, I WANT JOHN CONNER TO GO BACK TO AUGUST 29TH 1997 AND TRIGGER JUDGMENT DAY ON THAT DATE RATHER THAN THE T3 DATE. I LOVE TIME TRAVEL....
OH YEAH, I JUST HAD A SCARY THOUGHT THAT SOMEONE WOULD TRY TO PUT THAT KYLE REESE FAGGOT IN THE NEXT BATMAN FLICK AS ROBIN.... IF THAT HAPPENS, I WILL BOYCOTT THE MOVIE.... -
....the dogs were cool. Laser guns = FUCKING GAYOld school firearms will never be rivaled. Forget those pew pew laser guns ever fucking existed.
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But I honestly can't say that I'm the same person at 30 that I was at 10. Granted, people often DON'T change a whole hell of a lot, and T4 didn't explain John Connor's change. But I don't think they have to. It's a lot easier to buy Edward Furlong's transformation into a 35 year old Christian Bale than it is to buy into 12 year old Edward Furlong's transformation into a twitchy little 18 year old Nick Stahl. One character spent over a decade fighting a post-apocalyptic war, and I've heard that war sometimes does shit to people. There are PLENTY of things to complain about in T4, but I honestly don't see this as being one of them.
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Jun 10, 2009 1:06:19 AM CDT
I don't give a shit if it feels like the same person.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
As I said.....all that exist now are T1 and Salvation. They are the perfect pair. And the look and tone match. I don't know what the fuck happened with the other shit in between.
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Jun 10, 2009 1:09:56 AM CDT
T1 and T4 can only be a pair if you cut out T4's intro...
by gibsonusa returns
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Not cool at all. Yeah dude, lasers are actually sissy weapons. If I want to see lasers, I'll watch fucking Star Wars or some shit. Lasers were actually the worst part of The Terminator.
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Jun 10, 2009 1:13:47 AM CDT
I understand the use of lasers in T1 though....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
...that shit was cool in the 80s. But Paul Verhoeven taught us if you want balls to the wall, you fire fucking machine guns.
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CO-DIRECTED BY PAUL WS ANDERSON AND MCG
how badass would that be?
not at all. -
Jun 10, 2009 1:25:47 AM CDT
You know whats funny is T2 theme song is now dated.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
.....I remember when T2 theme made T1 theme sound like synthy 80s shit. But now T2 theme sounds weak as fuck. Like stock drum samples and synth orchestra. It still sounds cool. Just a product of the era. Funny how that happens though....
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McG, the brick layer and Bale owned you all
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Now you're just being a sputtering cunt. Insult the story....fine. I get it, there wasn't much of one. But overall the effects were fucking fantastic.
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I can smell it.
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Shit, what a waste. He was cool. Why couldn't Marcus be the third in command behind Reese? If he survived, I'd like to have seen him train Reese to be the warrior we know in the future.
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I'm curious to how you said TS suffered from bad editing. When I think about it.. I think I agree it's one of the main problems. Please share...
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WHY?
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without two protagonists, however. I get what they were trying to do, but it should've been weighted toward JC.
They'll probably bring Marcus back by giving the character one of those reactors they showed in place of a heart. -
Jun 10, 2009 2:06:24 AM CDT
McG is out, who cares if he's talking, so was Bryan Singer.
by ganymede3010
And we all know that turned out. No way the suits are shell out another 200 million for McG to fuck it up. No fucking way.
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please post.
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Jun 10, 2009 2:12:34 AM CDT
Terminator is like an NFL team on a coaching carousel
by gibsonusa returns
Changing coaches, which results in scheme and roster changes all the time. Looking for some stability.
Another director means another new look, new story, new cast members, new musical score. The franchise is too sidetracked and needs to get back to its R-rated roots telling the story of the Connor family. -
it was a quality piece of entertainment.
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They had the chance to make the movie that we've all been wanting to see, the future war, and they fucked it up with crap screenwriters and a crap director. I hope that there's no more Terminator films made ever again.
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who the fuck has been snorting dried shit again?
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Jun 10, 2009 2:48:57 AM CDT
I guess T5 will be rated PG, huh McG? To make more money?
by motoko kusanagi
FUCK YOU McG, for taking the balls from our Terminator franchise. FUCK YOU AND BURN IN HELL you fucking talentless dipshit.
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This fucking kid and his infantile remarks (like this "T4 was better than True Lies" bullshit) is starting to piss me off.
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After a long shit I've thought of a way to extend this franchise. Thankfully I live in an alternate reality filled with red glowing clouds, where men stay at home all day watching snuff and all women work in S&M dungeons just to feed their men with hard drugs, booze and scat. And the time line didn't change from the laser friendly T1 and was never gayed on by every cunt thereafter. And the good people of the world reject being molestered by the evil of Hollywood and deny them access to their mouths and assholes. Unfortuately the true horror of the world isn't easy to escape from, so I am truely sorry for you people who have to remain in the world of the real where the taste of McG's thick sex piss drips off your pube riddled tounges. Anyway if they set the film on Mars it'll be great. If McG times if right and can get his spermy ass to Mars before the remake team get there I'll wager this will be a sequel so amazing that you'll have to remove your eyeballs and have the celluloid itself welded into your brain through empty sockets. And when your eyes are back in place once more your world will be as red and glorious as mine.
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Would like to see Aliens land in our past, a historical setting rather than modern days, and to see how they would deal with them, with not so modern weapons.
Would like to see it in a similar vein to Aliens, with a team of Samurai rather than Marines up against it. Swords slashing off alien limbs and heads, alien acid blood flying everywhere. -
Come with me to Wally World if you want to live.
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"Bald Matthew McConaughey leaps at giant, towering Terminator... gets eaten."
Sounds good to me. -
London is boredom and rain rain rain
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Now I see through all McG's lies and deceit. This is what he wanted all along. How foolish was I not to see the obvious. Sooooo picture the scene and picture it well: a NAKED CHRISTIAN BALE arrives NAKED in MODERN LONDON, ENGERLAND, and we get a CLOSE UP of BALE'S ASS CHEEKS then we pan up to his ripped ABDOMINAL MUSCLES and SLOWLY, SLOWLY head to his BICEPS, MOIST AND GLISTENING in the MODERN LONDON, ENGERLAND, NEON LIGHTS of PICCADILLY CIRCUS. Now I see exactley what he had in mind. I pray McG is just able to hold back when he shoots that scene and not spew his filth all over the crew and a prone vulnerable Bale. I also hope that Bale as "John Conner TM" doesn't get too confused when surrounded by his fellow country men since and forces him to break character, since we know how hard Bale works on his wobbley American accents. But yeah, this could be like An American Terminator in London if done right. Fuck it, I've a painful boner for this idea and it's about to explode.
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you're gonna get spitroasted if you dont shut up.
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Show how people in China, Europe, South America...are dealing with Skynet...and trying to make contact with one another. Make it gigantic in scale...yet still be a character driven tale focused on Kyle Reese. Is that impossible?
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Lets go balls out and finally make the future war we all wanted to see! Oh wait, we hired Mc Fucking G and made a terrible corn-infused piece of shit. Then lets go back to the shitty T3 formula. Yeah. Hey maybe we can get McG. FUCK YOU MCHACK and your total lack of talent. Go die in the gutter you cockstain.
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I thought it was really good especially the action scenes. I honestly do not know what some of you guys are on about. It was one of the best sc-fi/action movies I have seen in the past few years. For a summer movie it ticked all required boxes and Michael Ironside was in too, what more do you want?
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On this site alone, this reference to another predator movie, another alien movie and here another Terminator movie. All three from the 80's (alien is 1979, close enough).
Looking at the original (not based on a book or from comic book series) movies that were produced in the late 90's up to now, could you imagine any of them being discussed for a sequel/prequel in 20-30 years time ?
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look at it as the alien series, everything after Aliens basically doesnt exist. Same now with Terminator after T2. Theres really no point to getting upset or angry about this bland movie, it really does not deserve that much passion. At the end of the day it will be mostly remembered as one of the failures of 2009, the end of the terminator franchise, and the moment Bale got "Tom Cruise syndrome" whereby he mistakes intensity for good acting....Thankfully I didnt pay to see it as my girlfriend got free tickets, and all I can really say is how pointless the wholething was. What exactly was the point of the story? What did it add to the mythology? How did it deepen the characters? How was the overall story moved forward? Apparantly nothing, the whole point of the movie seemed to be about how Conner got his scar, and how he met Reese. At the end (in probably one of the lamest endings I ve ever seen imho..) what significant event has occurred? What character arcs have taken place? Absolutely fuckall, except for Marcus who may as well have never existed as I cant see how he will have any impact on any future story. So all you guys that think this movie is really good, i sincerely hope you enjoy it, and that it was the terminator movie you wanted But then please dont complain about other hollow summer movies with really dumb scripts like transformers, or the lowering of standards in Hollywood movies, because is no different....
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no different" damn my shitty typing skills....
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...with the other shit in between."
Dickblood, aren't you the guy who said that the only watchable Terminator film (at least until T4) was T3? -
Sounds like sh*t... can't wait to miss it.
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Is it too much to ask that they...oh, I don't know...do a future war trilogy and finish off by tying it in to the first 3 movies.
This has got to be the worst idea that anyone connected to movies has had since someone decided to give Rothman a job!
McG - you are a fucking idiot! -
Three pissed-off Terminator fanboys travel back in time to prevent McG from being born, so that he can't fuck up Terminator Salvation. However, one of them falls in love with McG's mother and ends up fathering McG anyway. As he realizes the extent of his folly, he falls down on his knees and raises his arms, shouting defiantly to the heavens: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
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self contradiction going on here by a number of guys that were shouting from the moutaintops how great this movie would be, now they have all either dissapeared or back peddled by coming up with all kinds of justifications etc..lol...its pretty funny...
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Can they please nuke Clapham off the fucking map! Those South London twats really get on my tits with their rugby-shirt-wearing-cap-on-backwards yah-rah we-live-in-a-backwater sense of self-worth. Bunch of cunts can all fuck off. They deserve a McG directed pile of steaming shit.
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I'm afraid I do not get your subtle message.
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the great flick from Vincenzo Natali.Finally, a nice gif animation Harry!
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Hasta La Vista,blud,innit?!...
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that time travel did dick and all you did was delay the inevitable? OR maybe they just want to show you can't change the future AGAIN by showing John Connor trying to change things and falling flat on his ass. Connor: "I love my dad and Arnie and everything, but I doubt they really grasped what lay at stake here when I sent them back in time, so I'll do it myself!" BTW, I don't think this movie will see the light of day until the second half of the next decade, since TS is kind of underperforming $-wise. And I actually thought TS was coo'. Worst case scenario TS will end up like Planet of the Apes 2001. You feel like there will be a sequel but people will be like, meh, just leave it be.
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It was terrible, full-on retard. Actually worse than I intended it to be. The opening scene with Carter and Worthington was laugh out loud bad (and some audience members did). Atrocious. Makes JJ Abrams look like a genius. Yes, that's how bad it was.
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Dickblood thought T4 was better than True Lies? What a moron.
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I am not McG.
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We are done with the past stuff. We want to see the defeat of Skynet, and that's it. What ever happened to:
"The terminator had already gone through. Connor sent me to intercept and they blew the whole place... nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him, and me."
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Was, technically, an addition to the mythology, but was present in the original script and, I think, on of the original cuts of the film. It was also present in the novelization of Terminator--at the end, you find out that the factory is Cyberdyne systems, and one of the employees is looking over the terminator wreckage . . . so, that was actually part of the first movie, just got edited out for some reason.Dickblood things Jamie Lee Curtis is a hermaphrodite, thus isn't fond of True Lies. Plus, he things James Cameron is the modern reincarnation of Hitler."I'm king of the world!" -- best Oscar speech ever. And Titanic was actually kind of a "meh" film.
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It had a point -- reviving Cameron's career because The Abyss was a box office bomb. So, in true cash-grab fashion, he crapped out a completely pointless sequel that so many of you like for reasons that continue to elude me. Now, I won't go for the rant cause I realize I took it too far, but I find it hilarious that people defend T2, but bash T3 and T4 as cynical, borderline desperate money-grabs, when THEY ALL WERE, with the exception of T1, which is the only really good one.That said, as hackalicious as T4 was, it DOES link up much more strongly with T1 than T2 or T3 did. The shame is that McG really is a terrible director, because T4 could have been awesome in the hands of a good director. That said, I did enjoy T4 despite the hackery.
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True Lies over T4 any day, its fun, has better action, has an awsome performance from Paxton, and Jamie Lee in her underwear. Those last two points are enough to make it way more watchable than that lame terminator movie imho...
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Let's get interesting. Skynet sends a Terminator back to the 90s to access not-yet-destroyed geneaology information on John Connor and top officers of the resistance, then goes dark until after judgement day. This much more complete data allows Skynet to target Sarah Connor as a child, or Sarah Connors mother, or Sarah Connor's great-grandmother, and John Connor has to go back in time and save his great-great grandmother, and the terminator kills his great-great granddaddy, so John Connor has to impregnated his great-great grandmother and thus becomes his own great-great grandfather. Which explains John Connor's hitherto unmentioned 6th toe.
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But it's still a really good movie, cynical gash grab or not. T3 was nowhere near T2 in terms of quality, compelling narrative, action, etc. I haven't seen T4 yet.
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Was $362,211,640 on a production budget of $100 million. I guess word of mouth did kill future sequels. Plus, just not a lot of ape-themed merchandising opportunities. T3 had a worldwide gross of $433 million. Salvation's box office is $206 million after 20 days. Seems unlikely to crack $400 million, maybe not even $350 million? Makes a sequel seem unlikely, combined with the bad word of mouth, unless it's another reboot. And, I imagine the folks who have the rights to terminator will eventually start thinking reboot . . . just do #1 again. And, if they set it in the 80s, I'd go see it.
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make T3? He could have made numerous cash grabs with endless terminator sequals if he really wanted to. But way more importantly many of the story elements are in the noevlization of T1, and in some of the cut scenes from T1, so what T2 continued was always there. Plus he created the terminator so he actually has a right to continue it. When far less talented directors just make the sequals purely for studios to generate money off a known brand name, thats a cash grab. Thus I completely disagree with you on that one. Also, its pretty hard to accuse a guy thats only made 6 fucking movies of doing that for a cashgrab. There is little evidence that Cameron has ever made a movie purely as a cash grab. Lets also keep in mind that he gave up his salary and share of the profits to get Titanic made (clearly the film was more important to him) Also he is now taking a major risk on Avatar (if it fails, there goes his clout and a lot of his money, and its a damn risky project as its not a sequal/reboot/remake, its an actual original idea with no name brand recognition) None of these things sound like someone that would do that with something that was his own creation. And finally, while not a hit, the Abyss wasnt a huge bomb, though it must have been seen as underperforming. But then again its basically a drama, there is very little action, so how big a blockbuster was a story like that ever going to be? Basically, why did he need to make a cash grab after the Abyss?
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Arnie on a horse vs. a T600 laying waste? T4 wins.
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but your logic is flawed and doesnt fit the facts...
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True Lies wins...
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I did say that. But I hadn't seen T1 in about 8 years. So right before Salvation I watched it again, and those two fit together perfectly. So I change my mind. T2 and T3 are both pointless. I'm fine with the first and last being all that exist. And again, as I said earlier-- absolutely nothing in the Terminator mythology was advanced with T2. It was a cash grab. Basically the same story, more money, better effects, soften it up a bit, give it a pretty ending, etc. Say what you will about Salvation's rating. But Salvation had twice the balls T2 ever did. Its a darker, grittier film. And if anything was sugar coated to make it more accessible for mainstream audiences, it was T2. Just because cops gets shot and Arnie peels the skin off his arm, and Linda morphed into Swat dyke-- there is nothing hardcore about it.
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(A) You're an asshole of the highest order, my friend.(B) That catchphrase you use in almost every post title isn't catching on. Give it up. It was boring three months ago. It's even more boring now.
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Cobra Kai's gimmick is old, and your name is original? Yeah. That was a funny story when I was in 3rd grade....not so much now. P.S. Anyone who bullets their reasoning with letters is a pretentious cum receptacle, not worthy of reading. Thank you. I will ignore your posts from now on. Cunt.
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To be fair mate, that mentality's hardly confined to Clapham. I went to a pub in Primrose Hill a few weeks back and almost had to leave because, by my own admission, I wasn't pretty enough.
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that Titanic would become the phenomenon that it did. For all he knew he cold have come out of it with absolutely fuck all to show for it other than the movie, so whats your point?
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now, we'd have to wait another 9-10 years to get it. When will Hollywood, and my ex-girlfriends, realize? Bigger doesn't necessarily equal better. You can have a small movie with small finances that can completely blow away a big budget "spectacle". It seems like moviemakers feel the way to make a good movie is to just throw money at it like a hot, 19-yr-old stripper trying to work her way through college so she can get her associate's degree in x-ray technology because her dad's an asshole and never bought her that pony and she doesn't want to pay back student loans with the high interest rates and hidden fees, but she has a hot body, so why not strip and make a lil' money?, she figures.
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g about? Because T4 was the definition of pointless. Almost no story, little imagination, and it is almost completely idea bankrupt. Please explain how on Gods green Earth that movie advanced the mythology,(what new ideas did it bring to the table?) or had a point. Hell, what the hell was the point of the story (what little there is)? And how does T1 and T4 fit? The future shown in this mad max wannabe is completely out of wack with what we saw in T1. I dont remember the women all having great hair and impecable make-up in T1, I dont remember the resistence having so much hardware, and being so well organized. And the future in T1 did nt look like the ocation from the hills have eyes. Did you really T1 Danny? And if so did we see the same film?
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Okay guys, let's take a look at the actual financial situation on this fucker. All of the publicity and advertising shit on this film claim that it had a budget of $200m. NO. WAY. There is no way that Terminator Salvation cost $50m more than Transformers! Not a fucking chance! So bear in mind that Warner has probably at least pre-sold the film for close to $100m plus revenue from merchandising etc, plus it's box office take of $200m worldwide and projected Blu Ray and dvd sales and yes, the acoountants have given the nod to a fifth film.
Anyone? -
do with Cameron for whatever your persoanl issues with him are Danny. And that you seem to take the whole Bale worship thing seriously, so it appears you feel a duty to defend it. But I am lost how you can even try to begin to convince yourself (because you are nt convincing most people) that that lame movie is good action sci-fi. But cool Danny, if it truly floats your boat dude, but if you can trash T2 (a widely considered classic sci-fi action movie) and then praise T4 which has basically just failed on every level. Then I absolutely cant take anything you say seriously ever again.....
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But yeah it was more Mad Max than anything else. I liked it (as I already said up THERE-points) but it's not gonna make you forget the first two. PaZoozoo old Son-how many cans in a Six pack? you've been AWOL.
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Explain to me how T2 added anything to the mythology set up in the first film. Other than the addition of neato liquid Terminator and Robo-Babysitter, why is it a story that needed to be told? I agree that the T4 story was a little bare at times, I'm not delusional. But IMO it fits with 1 better than 2. And I didn't hear anyone complaining why the resistance is so well outfitted in 2 in comparison to 1. They have those Naziesque looking uniforms and little power packs on their back and clean uniforms and an organized command center. Thats a stark contrast to the slapped together guerrilla resistance we saw in the first film. Why don't you complain about that? Because they both take place at night and everything is blue? Thats why it fits? Give me a fucking break. T4 takes place eleven years prior to the future we saw in T1. It looks like the resistance starts getting their ass kicked, and they lose their ground, and are cut down to a few remaining fighters. And that particular battle we saw took place in the ruins of a city. Who fucking cares? You think the entire planet is now covered in ruined city, so every single battle in the future films needs to take place in city ruins? No other terrain exists in North America?
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Please explain how T2 is darker and gritter than T4.
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So he went with an artificial heart.
Or maybe he saw Wizard of Oz.
Anyway, it's all about copying. -
Jun 10, 2009 11:02:25 AM CDT
And Cameron ripping off Ellison is totally cool.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
....cause its Cameron. But McG, he has the nerve to set the story in the desert, AND its a fucked up future?!! What a fucking unoriginal hack!
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the coffers of T:S no matter how you slice it...I wanted this to succeed just because even with a shitty mediocre director it could be fun but McG absolutely IS "A jock douchebag crashing out geek party" as one TB'er so aptly stated.Seeing as how that means I haven't seen it or won't until it's on cable, I cannot obviously speak to the quality of the movie but from your overt reactions, I can say I'm not surprised. I even predicted as much prior to release. But now that this fucking guy is actually going through with the dumbest idea of all time for this franchise: bringing the future war to the present!! then I've officially changed my stance from wanting this to succeed to wanting to fail so bad that people won't even let McG direct a public access commercial for Des Moines cableTV.You guys were quick to point out how having the aliens on earth today negated the context of the movie Alien. Am I the only one who doesn't think that having a future war in the present completely negates the first 2 films? And if you negate "The Terminator" story-wise then I have just 2 words for you: FUCK OFF.
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Jun 10, 2009 12:25:26 PM CDT
I just watched Terminator Salvation last night......
by theycallmemrtibbs
I'm watching this thing and I'm like wow.... this really is a departure from the the first three films, even in the aspect of the future war. It totally had a different look and feel of what I was looking forward to.
It put me in a weird space like Alien Resurrection the first time I saw it but a lot more darker and grittier but just as ridiculous. Both films could've been awesome if somebody would've suggested a re-write or two rather than trying to just go for the visual orgasms which Terminator Salvation had enough of to go around.
I can honestly say there was some cool shit going on. The Harvester, the motorcycles that popped off it's shins and chase the shit it's prey. Marcus, was an interesting character. Too bad the one thing that probably killed the movie for me was going in knowing he was a Terminator...
Bale was, who he is and will always be in every movie he's ever going to be in, Bale.
Like How Kevin Costner is Kevin Costner and Keanu Reeves is Keanu Reeves. You either love him or you're like whatever with him, me personally I'm like whatever. In my opinion he's not a great actor but a decent one and he brought enough of an interest to John Conner that I didnt have problem with his performance.
Common on the other hand need to shut it down. Why the fuck does he always stare at the person he resights his line to? Its like he's a deer staring into headlights in every movie he's ever in... it's very distracting.
Probably one of the more interesting things about Terminator Salvation was how it had a look and feel of an eighties Sci-Fi flick, ex. Road Warrior, Escape from New York especially with the appearance of a young CGI'd Arnold.
Bottom line the movie was good, it just wasn't great, And the more Terminator films that are made, the more the Terminator-verse will become more of a contradiction. Did MCG evn bother to listen to Doc Brown's theory on time travel in Back to the future 2?
Which got me to thinking, What would've happened if the Terminator did succeed in killing Sarah Conner?
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No, nobody mentions 1997 in The Terminator. All that Reese says is that the nuclear war happens "a few years from now", and he's talking in 1984. Now, to me, that suggests, I dunno, 1989 or something like that. 2004 is a real stretch. But that doesn't bother me unduly. In some ways, it's like the fact that Maggie Simpson has been two years old for twenty years, and James Bond has been in his 30s/40s since 1962. It's almost as though all chronology is relative to the year the movie was made rather than sitting in some absolute space. Bit of a cheat, I know, but it doesn't have me gnashing my teeth with anger.
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"Which got me to thinking, What would've happened if the Terminator did succeed in killing Sarah Conner?"
In a way, that's like asking what would happen if 2 + 2 equaled 5. We know from The Terminator that it could NEVER have happened; this is a universe running on rails, set in stone. All choice, free will and (true) randomness are illusory. -
Terminator Salvation has made only 100 million domestic after 3 weeks. This movie isn't outpacing Superman Returns, and SR made 200 million domestic, 391 mil total gross. This movie won't do more then 125 mil domestic. And with TF2 around the corner T4 will be vanquished.
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"Am I the only one who doesn't think that having a future war in the present completely negates the first 2 films?"
Don't quite understand what you mean. Explain further... -
"Who fucking cares? You think the entire planet is now covered in ruined city, so every single battle in the future films needs to take place in city ruins? No other terrain exists in North America?"
Yeah, I really liked this as well. It was a departure, and it surprised me, but I thought it was actually pretty cool. Rather than just a bunch of rag-tag fighters living in an eternally dark, broken cityscape, we get to see daytime, wilderness, deserts, and still-functional human military hardware, remnants of mankind's previously-existing army, navy and air force. It wasn't what I had imagined, but it actually made sense. Especially the submarine command centre. I liked it. I would rate the movie as only a 6/10, with a weak ending and a plot that didn't entirely hang together, but there were lots of things to like in it. -
Wouldn't have anything to do with McG pandering to the only audience that didn't openly despise him, would it?
http://io9.com/5284829/why-does-the-uk-love-americas-flops
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Well the entire purpose of the first and second movies was to prepare at first and then attempt to avoid the future war. By bringing the future war to the present, it completely negates both of the first 2 films contextual motivation (and the third to an extent) in much the same way that AvP (both of em) negates the idea of 'Alien' and "discovering" the aliens themselves in the future.I'd say that this T5 idea is far more of an egregious (50 cent for that one folks!) negation than even what occurs by the mere existence of AvP when considering Alien/Aliens/Alien3/A:R.Basically, it makes all that happens in the first 2 films meaningless and, ultimately, pointless, from a story point of view.Even if T:S broke all expectations and was actually better than all of the other movies combined, bringing the future war to the present is STILL a colossally stupid idea for this franchise.My opinion, to be sure, but I find the idea of pissing on Terminator offensive in every way possible. Making T:S wasn't pissing on Terminator (and that's my view sight unseen as I think it would be slightly hyperbolic to say so). BUT!, making the future war come back in time to the present (now or '84 or whenever) is pure "13 year old kid screenwriter" dumb on so many levels my head spins in frustration.
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it was a well told, exciting story, characters you cared about, great action and groundbreaking effects at the time (and effects I think are still pretty cool to watch today).
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My argument that T2 didn't add to the mythology is in response to people saying 3 and 4 were merely cash grabs that added nothing to the Terminator universe. My point is neither did T2-- it was an updated rehash of the same story basically. And I disagree. I didn't give a fuck about a single person in T2. Furlong was unlikable as fuck and I wanted the T1000 to put a lobster claw through his fucking throat every time he opened his mouth. And sorry....thumbs up Robo-Nanny doesn't work for me.
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What are you talking about? Different science fiction works use different theories of time travel. None of them is truly rooted in any sort of science. You myopically going on and on about how your favorite model of time travel is the only one that's makes sense is retarded to say the least.
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who cares. Did enough people enjoy T4 to warrant this so quickly? Can't the terminator franchise noe just fade into graphic novel and Sci-Fi channel sequels?
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7-11 action scene was cliched hack job..and it wasnt that good. regardless, that was it--other than the shitty robot escape and the end, thats what you call action..the plot and drama werent even that good..just give up and admit T4 was a failure. no one will judge you if you back peddle.
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he told him to tell them he wanted 30 million dollars. cameron im sure was thrown bundles of money but he has that thing that oh so rare in hollywood...whats it called, oh yeah--FUCKING INTEGRITY.he had no interest in telling FUTURE WAR. in the main story, it would be the prologue, the exposition, the mcguffin. T5 will not happen.
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"It was a well told, exciting story, characters you cared about, great action and groundbreaking effects at the time (and effects I think are still pretty cool to watch today)."
I didn't think it had any of those things. It was a boring rehash of the original with an unlikeable Sarah Connor and a whining brat.
Its other major problem is that once it goes off in the "let's destroy Skynet" direction, the motivations of the characters become unclear. What exactly is the purpose of the T-1000 chasing the Connors after Cyberdyne is destroyed? They've become an irrelevance. Instead, it would be better off buying a suit and setting up shop as a research scientist-cum-entrepreneur, replicating the Skynet technology and effectively rebuilding its incinerated master. Indeed, the final reel should really be the Connor brigade chasing the T-1000, the only agent who can now ensure Skynet's existence, not vice versa. -
"Even if T:S broke all expectations and was actually better than all of the other movies combined, bringing the future war to the present is STILL a colossally stupid idea for this franchise."
Still not quite grasping this. If you wait long enough, what was once the future becomes the present. If the first half of "Dune" involves the fremen rattling on about the prophecy of a leader who will come in the future to save them, are you saying that the second half doesn't make sense because it's about Paul becoming their saviour in the present, when they had always been talking about the future?
On other matters, I've put my cards on the table and said that I think that T2 is an irrelevance, a story that makes NO sense as a sequel to a film which is all about the fact that time travel does NOT change the future (not in this narrative universe, anyhow). The future war cannot be prevented. The Terminator is all about the battle that results in the messiah being conceived and taken away to safety to prepare for a coming war. So what's the problem with showing the actual war when it comes? Isn't that like saying that The New Testament is a rubbish sequel to the Old? -
"My opinion, to be sure, but I find the idea of pissing on Terminator offensive in every way possible."
I agree. That's one of the reasons I dislike T2 so much. -
as long as it's somewhere McG can't find?
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"It had a point -- reviving Cameron's career because The Abyss was a box office bomb. So, in true cash-grab fashion, he crapped out a completely pointless sequel that so many of you like for reasons that continue to elude me. Now, I won't go for the rant cause I realize I took it too far, but I find it hilarious that people defend T2, but bash T3 and T4 as cynical, borderline desperate money-grabs, when THEY ALL WERE, with the exception of T1, which is the only really good one.
That said, as hackalicious as T4 was, it DOES link up much more strongly with T1 than T2 or T3 did. The shame is that McG really is a terrible director, because T4 could have been awesome in the hands of a good director. That said, I did enjoy T4 despite the hackery."
I agree with pretty much all of this. And I suspect Cameron would have made a very different T2 (if he'd made one at all) had The Abyss succeeded. He basically made (so far as I can see) the most cynical cash-machine movie he could, presumably because he absolutely needed to after The Abyss bombed.
One minor point of dissent re: the compatibility of The Terminator and Salvation: I didn't understand how Skynet had any concept of Kyle Reese's existence or importance in Salvation. Did I miss something? Where did that come from? -
"anyone who would choose salvation over T2 is not only a moron, but probably an asshole as well"
Do I need two badges, or can I combine them both onto one? -
..."robo-daddy" or an excuse to show the latest special effects reel, then you must have graduated from the Rex Reed Movie School for the Clueless.
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because I agree....it is cliche. So I said "Robo Nanny," I don't remember hearing that before. Oh well....And I said before-- I totally get what people don't like about T4. It doesn't seem like a film everyone would like. The narrative structure is pretty odd. But come on-- when are people gonna grow some balls and admit that T2 was a desperate cash grab with no respect for what came before it. If you are truly into Terminator for the mythology, you would recognize T2 didn't add jack shit. It was a fucking Digital Domain exercise. And if you found Furlong remotely likable and gave a flying fuck what happened to him....thats not my problem. You act like I have issues because I didn't like an unlikable prick.
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It has its supporters, and its detractors.
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Doesn't that describe every fucking studio film??
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LOOSE Bale and you Might have something, the Best parts of T4 were when he wasnt on screen...
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Yeah, but usually its not the director doing the grab.
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some movies are obvious cash grabs that KNOW you're gonna plunk your money down, so they come off desperate. They think just havign Julia Roberts and george Clooney's name on the thing is going to bring in enough cash already. So, they aren't "desperate", but they're friggin cash grabs, all the same.
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Not only does the film advance the mythology, it explores the psychological effect the knowledge of Judgment Day/John Connor's future role has on Sarah Connor. I mean, if you knew the end of the world was coming and that your son was to be the savior of mankind, what would you do? How would you prepare? How would you prepare your son? What effect would this have on him? I think T2 handles these ideas quite well.As for advancing the mythology, take your pick. I suppose any number of things can be said about the evolution of Sarah Connor and the formative years of John Connor. Regardless, we see that the remains of the first Terminator will actually serve as the foundation (by way of Dyson and Cyberdyne) upon which Skynet is built. (Hello! That's crucial mythology stuff there!) And with the arrival of the T-1000, we can surmise that what Reese told Sarah, with regards to time travel, has been changed and that what he said about a "possible future" may have been more important than we thought. Ultimately, we see Sarah and John take it upon themselves to try and prevent Judgment Day from ever happening in the first place. In other words, the two heroes of our beloved TERMINATOR mythology attempt to alter the future (and their destinies) by changing the past. These aren't just plot points; they're logical ideas born out of the events the characters are fated to play a part in. (Whether or not they can change that fate is one of the great ambiguities of the film's conclusion.)But all of this is rather academic and I find T2 revisionism to be an increasingly assine geek trend.And for the record, T2 has more balls in its opening credit sequence than T3 and T4 combined. You can take that to the bank, cash it, and buy SALVATION a fucking clue.
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Ba-dum, ching! Thanks, I won't be here all week, folks. Be sure to tip your Dickblood.
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I doubt you made it out of third grade, asshole. Fuck you, fuck your whore of a mother, fuck anyone who knows you and fuck off.Yeah, I mean that.Fuck off.
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Jun 10, 2009 3:41:06 PM CDT
Whether we think a film is a cash grab or not is irrelevant
by robertbaron
The studio funding it, especially if it is a high ticket item, is desperately grabbing for cash anyway they can. All big budget films are desperate cash grabs by the ones writing the checks.
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[possible spoilers] And I'm surprised none of you have said the most simplified reason as to why. First, disclosure: haven't seen T:S so I'm obviously speaking halfway out of my ass but I bet I can guess why, at the end of a very long day T2 beats T:S or T3...why?Simple.Robert Patrick as the T-1000.A truly great action/adventure movie has both a great protagonist as well as antogonist. The best movies are the ones where the antagonist has a huge amount of fans but yet you still want him/her/them to loose.While I haven't seen T:S I believe te villiain is Skynet in the form of on the ground terminator soldiers (as in no dialogue, just threat) and then Helena Bonham Carter as the initial face and the final face of Skynet. Think about it...Arnie was pitch perfect casting for the first one. Perfect. For the second, I was amazed with Patrick's performance and his take on this character (he could have just aped Arnie from the first one or any other 'robotic' character and yet he made the role and the character his own)...he wass perfectly cast as the T-1000.For T3 the villain was either suck (Terminatrix and yes I still fucking HATE that name...Predalien, shotgunning highlanders, whiney douchebag young Darth Vader..that whole clusterfuck of hollywood fuckups recognized or not) or ambiguous Skynet computer virus code (no "face" no play). The female terminator was highly cheesey as Lokken just aped Patrick and didn't use her "female" aspect for anything other than inflating her boobs (nice but does not make a kick ass sci-fi action fliq..also not Lokken's fault obviously).As for T:S, if you cannot objectify the villain in a single form then you must really make that 'legion' of bad guy really really kewl. The sequel Matrix fliqs proved how difficult this can be I think but yet this is the most important aspect of a 'nemesis' movie/story concept to me.I could be wrong but my guess is Patrick's performance as the T-1000, when taken alone, betters any single individual in T:S and maybe more menacing than all of Skynet in T:S. Just grabbing people up can be scary, fast machines that kill without mercy or hesitation again...all good. But Patrick when he puts his hand on that cop PC...when he furrows his brows in apparent confusion at the silver mannequin...when he bashes his head through the helicopter glass and 'flows' into the seat (the whole time the pilots fear and shock is visible in the T-1000's surface reflection) and so on...Yes, you will want to poke holes in this with the infamous "T2 plot holes!" but some of them aren't as large as you may think.It's not a perfect film but it's a damn good one and to me, is infinitely superior to T3 and I'll admit my bias and say that I'd be shocked if I found T:S better (haven't seen it yet, etc).
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what's on the screen is on the screen and that's all that really should matter anyway. If something is a complete desperate cash in but somehow miraculously ends up a great film, then who gives a shit about the funder's intent for making it in the first place.
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None of that is necessary. We don't need to fucking see where the technology for the machines originates. We are told machines take over and start a nuclear war. Thats all we need to know. It would have been perfectly fine to go from T1 to a future war film with an adult Connor. Nothing in T2 is necessary for the mythology to make sense. That is why I say it was just a cash grab on Cameron's part, and he got to fuck around with effects, and basically recycle the same fucking story from the first film. AND he won! The world fell for it. Neat looking effects really could hypnotize people back in the day. Not really anymore. We've seen too much.
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Jesus Christ....Cable Guy is also a fascinating exploration of social alienation in the digital age, right?
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...stated the case for T2 quite succinctly.
Personally, I like T1 better because of its rougher edges and grimmer tone. T2 is a bit too slick and lurches from time to time, but to call it anything less than a kick-ass action movie and a raucous good time is beyond retarded. Say what you want about its flaws, but there is more intelligence and cinematic skill on display in T2 than in most big budget action spectaculars of any given year since the early 1990s. -
I agree. I think the lack of a real villain is what turns a lot of people off to Salvation. And Robert Patrick was very good.
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Wouldn't they, by definition, never get made? Especially now? Even with past-proven franchises?And really, doesn't your definition of 'desperate cash grab' weigh more heavily on how cynical you are versus how much of a "hack" movie we got?From what you guys have described, I'll likely think McG a hella-dick for what he's done with my beloved Terminator storyline but even then, I don't think McG is a hack, I just think he isn't really that talented; that he doesn't have much vision other than "whoa! cool!".Really, if you try to step outside your bias and think about it, none of these guys are hacks in the true sense of the word except maybe for our boy Dr. Boll. But then he swears by his shit so who knows?
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So you will just judge all future films by what you see on screen. No shit talking before hand about remakes or sequels cashing in on name value? No complaints about a lack of originality when everything coming out is remake or reboot? Because if we're not judging the intent behind making the film, we are just judging the quality of the individual picture-- right?
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Umm pretty much yeah.
I can shit talk a film all through the development and production, but if it's a great film it's a great film, regardless what lead up to the film on screen. -
Quote: "We are told machines take over and start a nuclear war. Thats all we need to know."Then why do we need to see the future war? Why is that perfectly fine? What purpose does that serve other than creating action sequences for special effects?Quote: "Nothing in T2 is necessary for the mythology to make sense."Explain this. Encapsulate the mythology for us so that we know what it is that you think wasn't advanced (or needed to be advanced).
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Jun 10, 2009 4:00:00 PM CDT
I never said the effects are all Salvation has.....
by dannyglovers_dickblood
I said the effects are well done and the story is a bit bare at times. But I like a lot of things about it. The photography is beautiful, the score is well done. Most of the acting is pretty good. I'm not gonna lie and say its amazing. Commin blows dick and Worthington should be shot for his horrid accent. And I do agree Bryce looked too stylish and fixed up. I think every character should have worn old dirty looking ill fitted military surplus clothing. But most importantly to me...Salvation was just fucking fun. It had a spirit of adventure and it felt like an old school 80s ass kicking.
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Jun 10, 2009 4:02:06 PM CDT
Mr. Nice Gaius -- I never said T4 needed to be told.
by dannyglovers_dickblood
I don't think it did. T1 is fine as a standalone film. But now that 4 exist. It works best as only two films, 1 and 4. A fifth film might very well fuck that up. I never claimed T4 adds anything we need to see to the mythology. I just want people to admit neither does T2. And I'm not going to outline four fucking films for you.
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"we can surmise that what Reese told Sarah, with regards to time travel, has been changed and that what he said about a "possible future" may have been more important than we thought."
No, what we can surmise from the appearance of the photo of Sarah at the gas station at the end is that Reese was right when he said, "I don't know tech stuff". He was right. We were not seeing a new, changed version of history. We were seeing the ONLY version of history.
As for the rest, it's like suggesting that if in Superman 2 it was revealed that Superman had a whole slew of powers and was immune to Kryptonite, that would be "advancing the mythology". Advancing it by...junking the previously-established rules and replacing them with a whole new set just so that you can tell a new story without constraints?
T2 is a real oddity...it is, essentially, the sequel to a misinterpretation of the original rather than a sequel to the original itself. It's a sequel to a misreading of the first film whereby it is incorrectly believed that we are watching "the second version of history". T2 is set in a world where time travel sets you off on a new path of history, whereas The Terminator shows us (or shows the viewer who is paying attention) that this is not in fact happening.
I don't know whether this happens mainly because lots of people saw T2 before they saw the original, and then watched T1 through the prism of "a narrative world where the future can be changed", or whether they actually watched T1 first but didn't understand it properly, thinking (wrongly) that because time travel was involved, it must be about "changing the future".
I guess some of the dialogue and concepts are apt to mislead unless you have your wits about you. Skynet HOPES to change the future. ("Ah! The movie's about changing the future!") Reese mentions possible futures. ("Ah! It must be set in a world where multiple futures are possible!") The message to Sarah from John says that "the future is not set". ("Ah! Sarah can change the future!")
All of these conclusions are shown to be incorrect. Skynet hoped to be able to change the future. It was wrong; it never could have. Its actions form part of the single history, and it creates its own enemy. Reese wonders about the existence of possible futures, but there is only one. Connor gives a bold pep talk in which he tells his mother that the future is not set, but he's either lying or mistaken (and why would he know anyway? he's not an expert on time travel).
Trust the tale, not the teller. The photograph at the end proves that we're in a single, immutable timeline, with a loop in it. This is not a movie about alternative branches of history. There's just one. Same as La Jetee. Same as Twelve Monkeys. -
Jun 10, 2009 4:04:08 PM CDT
Wow! So pretty much EVERYONE here hates T4!
by the_man_behind_the_curtain
Never seen a TB so unified in its hatred towards one movie!
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Did anyone notice how the robots in T4 were all "dressed up" like pirates and had those stupid emotional stares? What was the point of that? Would a technology advanced robot be unable to kill a few humans with pinpoint precision bullets coming out of a handgun? Why would he carry a heavy minigun and not kill a single thing? And what's up with JC getting trapped in Skynet yet somehow Skynet sending only ONE robot after him? One terrible robot that was slow as fuck and didn't use any weapon? The guy is as slow as fuck yet they were able to create a robot with human like agility like Marcus Wright. Didn't make any sense at all. If I was Skynet I would just start making a thousand nuclear warheads and bomb the shit out of all possible resistance's hideouts. If Conner ever makes his way into one of my facility just get 10 terminators to headshot him repeatedly till there's just chunks of flesh remaining. Why bother to create something like Marcus Wright if you can't keep him under control? A robot making facility yet with no lethal army of robot inside it is retarded.
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"Then why do we need to see the future war? Why is that perfectly fine? What purpose does that serve other than creating action sequences for special effects?"
I want to see how Connor beat the machines. Same as I wanted to see how the Old Republic fell and Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader. Sure, Lucas botched the telling of that story. But if you'd asked me beforehand if I wanted to see it, the answer would have been, "Yes, absolutely. Bring that fucker on." I already knew how it ended, but I sure as hell wanted to see the details. -
Set your Tivos.
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Did anyone actually think T4 was good? I mean people who aren't personally and knowingly deceiving themselves.
What garbage. -
Put me in the "Pro" column.
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Jun 10, 2009 4:10:10 PM CDT
T5: BALE MEETS UP WITH BIEHN IN 1985, KICK LOTSA ASSES
by bringingsexyback
Can I get an Amen?
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I actually saw CNN spell LOSING with two O's the other day.
These are the dark ages. -
Jun 10, 2009 4:12:10 PM CDT
DGDB--yes the ENTIRE FILMMAKING COMMUNITY FELL FOR IT!!
by six demon bag
the critics, the audience, everyone--that T2 somehow is a great film. seriously? this isnt people jumping on a bandwagon and saying HELLBOY is the greatest film around. T2 has stood the test of time. it expanded on the "mythology" just as any sequel does. it shows you a young connor that will one daay become a scarred man, it shows you a changed sarah, it shows you how a company could be so blind to make a destructive force, thinking they are doing it for noble reasons. it is also, i might add, a well crafted film. it might seem "boring" or "hacked" now because it is what is called THE STANDARD in big budget scifi action films. consciously or not, EVERY studio tries to make a film like this, to reap both critical and commercial rewards.you might have a prob with the film, thats fine, but your comments are negated when you say that T4 is a superior film. you talk about action--what action, truly original action are you referring to? the plot holes are enormous in the film--namely the pilot letting Marcus go causee she got wet. as well as how did Skynet know Kyle was his father? did the LA Times post that in 1985 and they filed it? my main problem with T4 is how its really not about Connor or Kyle--theyve been subjugated to the sideplot. the producers and studios and McG wanted so badly to make a film about Marcus that they lost sight of what this franchise was about. and if youre gonna complain about ROBONANNY then what the fuck was MArcus, ROBOLOVER? this film was unacceptable and frankly im surprised that you (and others)defend it so much.
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I never knew he was so well-spoken:
"Shia LaBeouf, 23, is on the cover of the upcoming issue of Parade magazine. Inside Dotson Rader describes the Transformers actor as "foul-mouthed, resentful, funny, prickly, quick-witted, and charming -- a package of contradictions."
LaBeouf says the source of his humor is from "seeing my parents have sex, smoke weed, my mom being naked ... [and] twisted R-rated humor."
"The good actors are all screwed up. They're all in pain. It's a profession of bottom-feeders and heartbroken people," LaBeouf also says, describing what caused his split with China Brezner, whom he dated for three years.
"Maybe it was career pressure. ... Maybe I chose work. Every man has those feelings of escape and survival. I know you shouldn't be that way. I'm trying to understand it and find the answers. I don't have them now. Why did the love of my life and I break up? ... Man, I have no idea. What was that all about? I have no answers to anything. None. Why am I an alcoholic? I haven't a damn clue! What is life about? I don't know."
Shia said of hiving his life, "Sometimes I feel I'm living a meaningless life and I get frightened. I know I'm one of the luckiest dudes in America right now. I have a great house. My parents don't have to work. I've got money. I'm famous. But it could all change, man. It could go away. You never know."
Of his skyrocketing career he said, "I don't handle fame well. Most actors on most days don't think they're worthy. I have no idea where this insecurity comes from, but it's a God-sized hole. If I knew, I'd fill it, and I'd be on my way."
LaBeouf is often an outspoken in interviewee, telling Playboy that his mother is the sexiest woman he knows."
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J/k!
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you're telling me that 1 and 4 go together..they are 2 separate stories..one is about Sarah and her fight to survive and 4 is about Marcus finding out who the fuck he is. wrong.
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shalom
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"the critics, the audience, everyone--that T2 somehow is a great film."
Film-watching community, perhaps?
I understand your argument. On the other hand, an appeal to popularity is hardly a killer blow. Who do you think sells more books each year: Dostoyevsky or Danielle Steel? -
It never rests. A great world was set up in T4, ripe for use. Then again, robots in london...
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It never rests. A great world was set up in T4, ripe for use. Then again, robots in london...
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are you honestly happy with the direction they are taking the "fifth" film? it looks like a way to cut costs by having them in present day London. end of line.
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They just think it makes them 'cool'. It doesn't, people.
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Praise Bale
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yes you're right. but the critics do adore it, as well as the public. BUT that doesnt mean hip fanboys need to have a kneejerk reaction and shit on it. facts are facts--its a film that has stood the test of time. in another 10 years we will not be talking about the Matrix like we will T2.
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On the contrary, it reliably invites spitting hatred and opprobrium.
But I honestly believe it's a dreadful sequel, because it is a huge retcon. The retcon is, "Let's assume that we're in a universe where time travel sets you off on a new branch of history" when the original movie made it QUITE CLEAR that this is not the case within this narrative universe. It's a subtle retcon, though, because a lot of people aren't going to spot it. It relies on the audience not being smart enough to understand WHY it's a retcon, or perhaps that they will simply not care. But retcons really bug me.
In addition to that, The Terminator is all about answering the question, "Why this elaborate scheme with the terminator?" Why go for Sarah Connor rather than John directly? Reese explains why. And T2 forgets all that: SURE, Skynet knew how to target John directly all along! It just sent the terminator to wipe out all the Sarah Connors in LA systematically for a laugh. No reason to do that, really, it just sounded like fun.
Also, Reese makes it clear that Skynet is essentially throwing a hail mary pass, and it really is the last throw of the game. "Its defense grid was smashed; we'd won." "Nobody goes home. Nobody else comes through. It's just him and me." And, I might add, "The FINAL battle would not be fought in the future. It would be fought here, in our present. Tonight. Oh, apart from that other battle that will take place in ten years' time. But please do enjoy this one first."
T2 is the second worst sequel retcon in movie history, after Highlander 2. But at least H2 was so hilariously, obviously bad that everyone could see it, instantly. -
"BUT that doesnt mean hip fanboys need to have a kneejerk reaction and shit on it".
I can remember the closing credits for T2 rolling as I sat there in the cinema in the summer of 1991, thinking, "Jesus...I can't believe how shit that was." I mean, a fuckin' LOVED The Terminator, and I'd be waiting for years to see the sequel. But it was just horrible. I've never believed that in order to posture and appear hip. I've simply never liked anything about that movie. I think that worst crimes of any sequel are cheapening what had gone before and destroying potential that HAD existed for a good sequel. I felt then, as I feel now, that T2 did both. -
...without having to choose a side, or pronounce exaggerated menstrual-blood-vendetta on supporters of those who disagree. I didn't like T4 as much as T2... but T4 had it's merits. It didn't work as well as I'd like as a whole movie, but parts were really inspired. And T2 wasn't a perfect film by any stretch. Of course, neither was T1. It was a scrappy techno-horror genre movie with some good B-actors, really good practical effects (for the time), and an interesting concept. Even T3 had its moments, with the slobber-knocker robot fights and some hardcore story decisions. Have we as a TB collective really reached the point where geek cred/pride prevents us from seeing the forest for the trees about some movies? I thought that shit got played out after the LOTR/SW/Matrix flame wars. Seriously, you guys are hilarious motherfuckers, and I salute each and every one of you that makes me laugh and keeps this site worth reading, but sometimes we need to step back and realize we're just trash talking for the sake of stirring shit up... which is just trolling. It's only movies... even if Harry goes off the deep end on cutesy trash, and Mori chastises us for being uncultured net-thugs, and Herc just shills for Amazon and Whedon, hasn't Vern at least taught us that even the depths of DTV can be worthwhile and enlightening and worth discussion? Or is PWNAGE the whole point now? I think there's room for both. OK, flame on, flamers... surely a rant that saccharine and cheesy deserves the tearing of a new asshole or two. And you know what? I wouldn't expect anything less from you vinegar-pissing sonsabitches. Nash out. -
There's no two ways about it. Anybody defending it should be ashamed of themselves - and that's completely apart from your opinions on T2. It has no similarities to The Terminator on any level - visual, aesthetic, thematic, logic, tone, or any other quality you care to appraise it on. As for this absurd notion that Cameron made T2 as a 'cash-grab' after The Abyss, this is another fantasy that has no basis in reality whatsoever. Cameron was ALWAYS goinbg to make T2 - he had talked about in interviews since the mid - 80's, and guess what - same ideas about Arnie being a good guy and protecting the kid. Actual evidence, not speculation, will serve you well to the filmmaker's intentions.As I've said repeatedly, some of you miss the point of what the terminator movies were actually about. The future war is a macguffin; judgment day is a mcguffin - it simply was the impetus to get the present day plot rolling. It is narratively IRRELEVANT whether judment day comes to pass or doesn't come to pass. Its simply a set up for a story about a nightmare scenario looming in the future, and how characters try to play off their destinies and the nature of fate against this. Both T1 AND 2 are SINGLE TIMELINE FILMS. The presence of Sarah's photograph in T2 (which did not need to be shown for any other reason) should clue you in to such a matter. This does not make T2 irrelevant or pointless- far from it. It is a paradigmatical companion piece to T1, a character based story about Sarah Connor. The endings of both movies bear this out; T1 ends with Connor driving down a symbolic road, consigned to the inevitable hands of fate, and the approaching 'storm' of the nuclear war, as she percieves it (based on the photograph and her other experiences in the movie). T2 ends in tandem with yet another roadway leading to the future, where Connor now conversely declares that "The unknown future rolls towards us; I face it for the first time with a sense of HOPE" which is thanks to the events in this film - Dyson's selfless sacrifice -and yes, this may be pointless in reality - her reconcilliation with her son, and the realization that technology is immoral - the 'good' terminator(from a certain perspective) and that mankind is the real enemy of itself and has to take responsibility for that. The end of that journey we should never see - the destination (jugment day) should remain unstated. The larger hands of fate, the greek chorus of the gods, is irrelevant; all that is pertinent is this character (and the other characters - and even Skynet is not omniscient)point-of-view of events - they cannot see and are ignoarant of the bigger picture of the universe, just as we are in life.T4 adds nothing whatsoever - not only do we not need to see the future war, there is no compelling story or hook driving this movie even on those. They throw in the unneccessary character of Marcus to deflect from the fact that Connor is exactly the same at the beginning as at the start, and hasn't developed one iota - its a story about how he got his scar, not any emotional growth.That, and the fact that, on any kind of surface level , its a terrible movie. Great action sequences - what, sub-road warrior chases with cartoon physics? No comparison to Cameron's peerless action sequences. great characters - more like one-dimensional cliches - ironside as the hard - ass commander, moon bloodgood as the 'bad-ass' chick (without any of the depth Cameron brings to his female action protagonists), brye dalla howard utterly non-descript as john's wife, and then an utterly one-note, uncharismatic to the extreme, performance from christian bale. The only good performance was from worthingon (and possibly yelchin) but his character and sub-plot was utterly redundant. Cameron's The Terminator and Terminator 2: Judgment Day are the only legit terminator entries, comparable in tone, visual style and thematic intention to each other; everything else is a money-making investment by producers who have bought the rights - terminator in name only.
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C'mon. It's Ahnold's peak as a star, the whole 18-wheeler chase is Smokey and the Bandit batshit crazy great, Robert Patrick as liquid Metal man rules, and you get the Sarah Connor you deserve here too. I think it's great. And it's Way better than T4. C'mon. I LIKE T4. I enjoyed it. It's a lot better than it hadda right to be. But it's NOT a better movie, Bale is OK but johnny one-note in it, and as for Cameron vs. McG...good gawd. CAMERON>McG, okay? Call me a fan of the Whole series, even T3, but be serious. Even if you hate Ed Furlong or whatever, as whole-this thing works very well. Doesn't have that 4 second Jane Alexander cameo in it, though that's true...
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I hear what you're saying. I guess my position is that The Terminator is the Citizen Kane of time travel movies, whereas T2 is effectively a James Bond movie that uses some of the same characters from The Terminator. When I watch a Bond movie, I don't really care about consistency, plausibility or plot holes. I just want to see cool chases, great stunts, see things blowing up and smashing into walls etc. Sure, a good plot is a bonus. But it's kind of optional. I don't hold it to high standards plot-wise.
I hold T2 to high standards because, as I say, The Terminator really is the fucking apex of time travel movies, especially within mainstream genre sci-fi. It is near-perfect imo. It is way more than a chase movie. It is a work of art. It is the fuckin' Mona Lisa. T2 is a Bond movie with robots. It's pop art. That would be fine, on its own, but it sucks as a sequel to the Mona Lisa. -
usually they start by stating all the bad things and then claim to love the "action" scene. or score. im sorry no score can make up for this shit.
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"Both T1 AND 2 are SINGLE TIMELINE FILMS. The presence of Sarah's photograph in T2 (which did not need to be shown for any other reason) should clue you in to such a matter."
In fact, Cameron was so dedicated to the idea of T2 being a single-timeline story that he, err, shot an ending in which Sarah is an old woman in a Skynet-less alternative future and John is a senator.
I know it didn't make the final cut, but did he do it for a laugh? Note that it's in both the screenplay and the novelization. -
Just wait until you see the Hobbit talkbacks. Each and every one of them will swiftly devolve into Tolkien vs Lucas free-for-alls. It's going to be fucking brutal. And hysterical.
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-classic line from The Searchers. MrGeyser! good stuff here no? I STILL think that t4 needed MANY MANY MORE GIANT ROBOTS than they had--but it WAS kinda fun.
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"there wasn't a memorable musical moment in the entire film"
I agree. I found it completely unmemorable. -
Shalom / Salaam Baleikum
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Shalom / Salaam Baleikum
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I thought that was funny. Remember how she was (more or less) Paula Abdul/Chimp in Planet of the Apes? she's in weird roles alot. Thanks Mr Burton! Ah yes the Hobbitses talkbacks. I think Del Toro is a FINE choice for that, actually. I'm imagining our old friend Ringy is gonna show!! PaZooz you gotta git yer flame-proof undies out for that one.
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Yes, he certainly did shoot this - as any filmmaker will shoot extraneous material for a variety of reasons - but he did not use it in the final-cut. Therefore, it is completely UNCANONICAL, and irrelevant to any examination of the film on the level of evidence of what is actually presented in the final edit. Rather akin to the situation of Alien/Aliens, wherein Cameron introduced the concept of the Queen and that method of xenomorphic reproduction; something he would have been unable to do had Scott retained the egg cocoon sequence in the original, whereby hosts themselves are transformed into alien eggs. It wasn't included in the final cut of Alien, and therefore is ucanonical. We cannot base hypotheses or analysis on 'intentions' that were explored in the making of the film, and ultimately discarded as 'unsuitable' for whatever reasons.
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But only if they protect against correctly colored fire, yes?
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"the origianl Future Coda ending was filmed and completed, but omitted for a variety of reasons: on an emotional level, the prospect of a definitve, happy ending felt somewhat out of context; on a visual level, the sunny park in Washington and the futuristic buildings felt again out of place; on a psuedo-narrative level, the ending effectively negated the storylines of both the first film and the first sequence in the second, raising the question of the "grandfather paradox" of time travel stories without the proper time to address it; and on a perceptual level of the characters, it was difficult to accept Sarah as a contented old observer after seeing her throughout the film as an intense athletic heroine. (and then there was the small matter of how a juvenile deliquent like John, linked to a massive spree of destruction at age ten, could become a senator...) The decision to maintain a sense of narrative ambiguity--to leave the future open-ended--felt more in keeping with the tone of the film. --thats from Van Ling, from the annotated script.
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"Therefore, it is completely UNCANONICAL, and irrelevant to any examination of the film on the level of evidence of what is actually presented in the final edit."
I accept that we must examine the text as given, not the text as it could have been. However, the fact that it was in the script suggests strongly to me that Cameron and Wisher sat down and wrote a story about changing the future. -
"The decision to maintain a sense of narrative ambiguity--to leave the future open-ended--felt more in keeping with the tone of the film"
Interesting. Thanks for that. -
...that this feels like a last-minute change to a story that HAD been written about changing the future. I mean, Sarah's closing monologue in the theatrical release is all about travelling along an unknown road. Sure, that's ambiguous too, as from a personal point of view the details of the future will always be hazy, but to me it still feels as though the spirit of the original script's ending permeates that movie. And this point doesn't address any of my other objections above re: how Skynet is able to target John directly when its INABILITY to do that forms the basis of the original movie.
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...this was a classic example of something which worked perfectly on paper but didnt work on screen. we all felt that something was wrong, that there was a slightly sour note at the end of the sympphony. Perhaps, after the 40 miles of bad road preceding the coda, the film just couldnt go on any longer. perhaps we just sensed that everything that needed to be said was already said. perhaps emerging from the dark industrial inferno of the steel mill into the bright idyllic sunshine of a world delivered from peril was too dislocating, and seemed to be a scene from another film. i had always thought that it was important to show that their efforts, the sacrifices made by the terminator and by Miles Dyson, were not in vain and that history was changed. But ibegan to think that the message of the film might be better served by not letting the audience off the hook so easily. we decided no to tie it all up witha bow, but to suggest that the struggle was ongoing, and in fact might even be an unending one for us flawed creatures trying to come to terms with technology and our own violent demons."--james cameron' intro to annotated scriptnot once does it say that next "i need to show FUTURE WAR!!!"
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And Bats don't carry around people. Not even Ollie the Friendly Bat.
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But honestly, all his dumbhouse talk about original endings and proposed sequels reeks of middle-school banter between kids coming up with their own fan fiction. It does NOT get my hopes up. I fully expect to come out of the theater hating it.
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Goddamn will those be epic. I just hope to see the Return of the King of Talkback for that. And maybe Pud, too. The TINO2 TB's are already shaping up as a good appetizer for that, and this is all just prologue to the inevitable vortex of apoplectic Cameron rage that will be the AVATAR TB's, where nerds shall certainly divide themselves between accounts of sweet eyeball lovemaking and forced ocular rape. And then somewhere in all that will be the unspeakable, bacchanalian orgy/binge that will be the TWILIGHT TB. I definitely can't miss out on that sort of Burning Man/Fear and Loathing/100 Days of Sodom kind of debauchery. -
where's your messiah now, moses? and over on a left is Planet Hollywood--a fucking tragedy. CLICK.
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T4 had around a 30% on rottentomatoes last time I checked. T2 has over 90% on rottentomatoes.
From what I have seen, T2 is remembered and regarded as awesome by the general public. It's spawned shirts, toys, videogames...even right now AICN has ads on NEW T2 toy replicas. Thats the impact of that movie.
An impact so strong that T4 references it, T4's director admires it, and T4 cast members say T2 is their favorite one.
T2 is critically and publically acclaimed.
If you didnt like it, that's ur opinion. But trying to "prove" it actually sucks doesnt help T4 become any good...a movie (T4) that has been critically smashed and has had questionable word of mouth on its quality. -
It'll be the same old all over again. "DEL TORO IS A GENIUS!" Followed by "DEL TORO FUCKED IT ALL UP!" With lots of "Well Del Toro was the best possible choice we had and he did as good as could be expected with the material!" and "Why did he have to have those moments that were so damn cartoony and jokey?" peppered in between.
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It's okay, though. 6/10 for me. And it didn't piss on the original like T2 did, in its insidious, subtle way.
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I don't know why people think Hellboy is good. It's really not.
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i think he gets a lot of acclaim because of his art direction and design. i will admit that his films look great. and the only director to use ron perlman properly.
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Thats true. And I dont think anyone comes to this place trying convince people movies suck or not. No one is going to change people's opinion. And deep down thats not the intent. Its just fun to be vocal about why you feel that way you do. Thats it.
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Pans looks good, sure. Do I give a shit about that dumb little bitch in it? No. Was the gore for shock value just to push an R-Rated agenda? Fuck yeah. It was pointless. But it worked....people were talking about it saying "That movie is awesome!! Did you see that guy's fucked up cheek? Del Toro rules!"
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...and I'm glad to see any intelligent criticism, but overall, I'm still in the camp that enjoys T2 as much as I enjoyed T1. Just a matter of preference, I suppose, and that I choose to see them in the context in which they were made. T1 was a breakthrough 80's genre masterpiece from a hungry young filmmaker, for sure, and a unique film that no sequel could really trump on it's own terms. But T2 was a product of 90's spectacle from a filmmaker more-or-less at the top of his game, who wanted to expand the concept beyond the elegant simplicity of the first movie, and consciously invert the story to book-end the original while letting him flex all his big-budget, new-tech aspirations. The fact that it holds up AT ALL to the original (which is a compliment that could be paid to Aliens, too) is the mark of a quality movie, even if it is a different kind of movie than the original. T2 had to be a different kind of movie because Cameron would have been wasting his time trying to outdo T1 by making it a "proper" sequel that hit all the same beats as the original... that's why T3 was the stinker of the bunch to me, because it just tried to outdo T2 at the same game. T2 was it's own thing, besides just being an extension of the original. It might be a bit more of a caricature, but at least it was a novel take on the same concept of time traveling murder robots. That's all I needed to enjoy it. I'm staying the hell away from the time-travel sub-debate in here, though. And I think everyone but McG and the suits understands that the movies should stay away from excessive time-travel, too. 1 2 3 4, we want future-war!
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I was entertained by all four TERMINATOR movies.
I WIN! -
...We lose.
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SHUT THE FUCK UP
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You really got BSB there didn't you? BSB just got served! Oh no's!
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Deal with it.
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I picture TITBAG as a semi-retard who talks what he types.
The kind of guy who constantly has a mouthful of food that he sprays over the keyboard while he rants.
Anyone else picture TITBAG like that? -
Cronos, Devil's Backbone, Pan's Labyrinth are great filmmaking.
Havent seen Mimic since it came out, but at the time, I don't remember thinking too highly of it. I could take em or leave em with regard to the HB movies.
But Blade II... now that's his best English film. That film rocks. -
Titbag looks like Arnie Grape. And his pants are always at his ankles for some reason. Its a shame the state budget cuts are going to limit his caretaker coverage. Hey TITBAG "FFFAWWWRRKKKKKKK QUUUUUUUE!!!!"
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That fat World of Warcraft nerd that kept beating the Southpark kids in that classic episode. His belly is covered in orange cheetos dust and he's got pimples all over his face. And he breathes like a man snores. No offense to any of you that breathe that way also.
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Jun 10, 2009 6:27:35 PM CDT
Titbag is like that cunt cottage cheese build up on the balls...
by dannyglovers_dickblood
.....when you're pounding a female. You know what I mean-- those little chunky balls that get woven into your pubes. You pretend you didn't see it...but its there. I'd say about 30% of females got a problem with it. I hear its some kind of vitamin deficiency. Some say it means an infection is looming....though I'm not sure I believe them.
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Trust me.
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Not convinced that he's the perfect guy for The Hobbit undertaking just yet. But hey, PJ digs him, so there is hope. It'll be interesting to see how DT reacts to making a film with some hard parameters, instead of going apeshit with whatever he wants. I just better not see some goddamn creature in Middle-earth with eyeballs in all the wrong places.
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But TITBAG in spite of your many problems we still love you, because you are 'our' TITBAG.
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....TITBAG flops out. Vulnerable. Confused. Stinky. http://tinyurl.com/lrjy6o
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many reasons T2 expands on the mythology as that has already been done quite well by other talkbackers. Even though you just dismiss it without in any way explaining how T4 does it. Sorry my friend but showing future war is just a premise/idea, its not a story. In fact thats one of the biggest problems with T4, all they have is the idea of showing a future war, but they have no idea what to do with it. And it is telling that most defending T4 do so by attacking T2 because they aint got anything else. I would respect it if you would just say that you just like T4 Danny, but stop trying tell us this is a good movie. By any definition of what makes a movie good, it fails. Then why do you hate transformers? Both movies are equally dumb and hollow. And you rally think the score is good? Have you been drinking Danny? That score was just more of useal white noise Elfman'a been churning out for years now, its not a pimple on Fiedal's score's ass
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Cameron was influenced by those outer limits episodes, he didnt rip hem off. Have you actually seen them Danny? Or are you just going by what you read? Because there are no time travelling cyborgs with metal endoskeletons in them, and there is no guy with a glass hand in Terminator, or an alien invasion for that matter. Nevermind that nothing is 100% original, everything is influenced by what came before, its all in how you combine it and put your own ideas into it that makes it something "original". And thats what Cameron did with Terminator. McG did nt do that at all, he was too busy going down his check list of things that had to be referenced, homaged, and showing us stupid shit that we never needed to see (how Reese learns his shotgun trick). It was like Lucas in the PT where he just tried to interconnect every character and incident to the point that it became ridiculous...
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in agreement with you as far as these asinine attempts to defend T4 are concerned. A lot of these guys are really contrdicting themselves or just fabricating shit out of thin air. But at least they really are the minority, most people (critics, the genral film going audiance, most geeks who love sci-fi action) are nt fooled and know T4 was a waste of time...
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http://tinyurl.com/lfq3t4 It's fun, good tasting, and makes your knees knock.
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Why would they try to cut costs by making the film in the most expensive city in the world?
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who when all else fails will pull shit about cameron beating a woman or killing an extra in front of the crew to show who's the fucking boss. despicable.
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"lord bale" probably commands it. filming in places where they dont have to build sets is always cheaper. remeber those shitty full house episodes where they wanted to cut costs so they ended up going to disneyworld? there you go. now they're trying to rip off 28 days later with the grim outlook.
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how are they gonna explain his weight gain??? if they were to emulate the scientist, then wouldnt they take his present fat self, and not 20 lbs lighter? lance henrickson can pull it off with the "bishop inspiration" patrick, not so much. FAIL before its even outta the gate.
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more funny in how desperate it makes them look, not to mention as you say despicable.
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Everything you've said is 100% accurate (note: not "I agree with your opinion", it's the actual truth). There's just not a talkback in the world long enough for me to respond to comments like "T2 was a cash grab, had no point/plot, didn't advance the mythology, etc...", so I won't. I just wanted to give you props for trying! Oh, and it IS filmmakers in addition to film goers who loved T2. I remember watching a George Lucas interview while he was filming Ep. I, back when we were actually excited about it (SO not trying to start a "Lucas sucks/rules!" debate, just using an example) where he said something akin to filmmakers always try to build upon what their colleagues do. He was hoping to push the sfx envelope with Ep. I, and then "we'll all wait for Cameron's next action movie and see what he does." Paraphrasing, but you get the gist.
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...OF HER LIFE HE WOULD OFTEN REMARK ABOUT HOW NO ONE WOULD EVER TOUCH HIS TERMINATOR CREATION EXCEPT HIM.
CAMERON: "NO ONE DOES JAMES CAMERON EXCEPT JAMES CAMERON. RIGHT YOU FUCKING BITCH?" *SMACK!*
CAMERON: "IF JAMES CAMERON DOESN'T DO IT, IT'S NOT WORTH DOING? RIGHT YOU NASTY FUCKING WHORE?" *SMACK!*
CAMERON: "I HAVE THIS IDEA FOR A MOVIE ABOUT 2 CIVILIZATIONS AND A GIMP THAT CONTROLS A ROBOT SUIT. JAMES CAMERON IS GONNA DO THAT FUCKIN MOVIE AND IT'S GONNA BE BIG. BECAUSE JAMES CAMERON DOESN'T DO ANYTHING UNLESS IT'S BIG! RIGHT YOU FUCKING HAG?" *SMACK!*
TRUE STORY, THAT. -
I know they used to do that. It was really cheap to film there once upon a time too.
That's one of the reasons some of the best movies of the 80's were made in England (Star Wars, Superman, Indiana Jones etc). We're proud of them, but in truth, they only came because it was cheaper. Like they do with Australia now. Endor was actually Hampshire or somewhere:-).
I'm not sure how much the pound is worth now (used to be double the dollar, but I don't live in the U.K now & since I left, the world's economies have gone tits up), but I'm sure I read something about the British Government withdrawing tax breaks for movies.
However much it costs, it would be a hell of a lot more than filming the last one in New Mexico. Having said that, having London as a backdrop really would save on sets & would probably be a lot more interesting visually than a desert. I keep thinking of all the old 70's & 80's sci-fi movies/shows set there. If it looked anything like those, it could be a big improvement.
If they do film there, I can see
By the way, I checked out your link, Sal_Bando. I must have missed that stuff. I wonder if they'd still like him if he knocked Boll out? -
WORD HAS IT THAT CAMERON'S FIRST VOLUME OF A 35 VOLUME SET WILL BE ENTITLED "ON BEATING LINDA: HOW MY BEST IDEAS WOULD OFTEN COME AS I WOULD TEACH THAT BITCH A LESSON."
TRUE STORY, THAT. -
My sentence vanished halfway through. I'd curse the edit button, but there isn't one.
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Jun 10, 2009 8:40:38 PM CDT
You guys are all wacky. Del Toro's got the goods. In spades.
by stuntcock mike
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Shit, you guys don't like nuffin! if it were up to you you would be floating in james cameron amniotic fluid of the 80s.
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Please. Give me a break. The knowledge of the future turns Sarah Connor into a near-psychotic, alienates her from own son and is pretty damned fertile ground for character exploration: a direct causal link to the original film. If anything, it was a braver choice than people give Cameron credit for. If anything, he avoided the obvious. Plus, Robert Patrick was outstanding. The effects were not the sum-total of the story. The character work meant more.
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She let him go because she saw a man being tortured for shits and giggles because of the composition of his skeleton. Was Terminator Salvation an intelligent movie? No fucking way. Did it properly develop any of its very few potentially interesting ideas? Of course not. But saying that the pilot released Marcus because "she got wet" is such a gross misinterpretation of what was clearly shown that I wonder if you were actually paying attention to the movie.
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criticism, too bad the movie did nt come close to making that pay off by actually developing that relationship (or the characters for that matter) well.
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I know what you mean man, as you say there is no talkback long enough to even begin to debunk all the fabricated nonsense that gets thrown out here. But its cool dude, all we need to do is use actual fact, and well reasoned logical deduction based on said facts to show how asinine and ridiculous most of this shit is. While, as useal, they can never offer anything more than their opinion (which is fine as we all have opinions, but stop passing your opinion off as fact). So let them say T2 was a cashgrab (like TESB was for Lucas, or LOTR was for Jackson is guess..lol. Never mind that film as a medium is all about making money any way in order to justify its huge expense...) if it makes them happy....
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Personally, for my money, I pick 12 Monkeys. I've seen some good buzz here about Primer, but never saw it. As far as the time travel movies I've actually seen, 12 Monkeys whips the pants off of everything in the Terminator series. Sure, it was a little bit weird, Brad Pitt was a bit too silly, and some of the humor didn't quite work. But overall, it was simply incredible. Furthermore, there's something else going for it. See, in Terminator, you don't realize until the very end that nothing that anyone does means shit. It's sort of a last minute "Twilight Zone" sort of moment. But would the movie had played out as well if this was clear within the first 30 minutes? I sort of doubt it. But in 12 Monkeys, this WAS clear within the first 30 minutes, and the movie STILL manages to be absolutely captivating as we watch these characters living out their final days.
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Jun 10, 2009 10:53:21 PM CDT
Salvation is THE best Terminator film, retards.
by dannyglovers_dickbl00d
It trumps even the first one. The first one is all unnecessary info anyway. T4 tells us all that we need to know... which is fucking Bale is a light trashing professional.
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He should stick dynamite up his dickhole.
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I personally don't put much stock in alternate endings. My opinion is if it didn't make it into the movie, then it's irrelevant to me as I'm sitting there watching the movie. If the alternate Terminator 2 ending mattered, then he should have put it into the movie. He didn't, so it doesn't.
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It's my second favourite. I do love it, for slightly different reasons. But The Terminator edges it for me, perhaps because it wears its brilliance lightly, disguised as a genre action film. I think it's also because its core emotion is that of heartbreaking loss, not only in the love story but more generally, the coming loss of this prelapsarian world. Even the main theme is fundamentally a lament, not a rousing action theme. Sadness is the emotional heart of The Terminator. Twelve Monkeys is slightly different; its core theme is that the world is a doomed madhouse, and that perhaps we shouldn't cry for it too much. Again, the musical theme, Punta del Este, conveys this idea, that everything is a chaotic uroboros madcap circus of destruction.
The final scene of The Terminator always hits me much harder emotionally than that of Twelve Monkeys. -
logan, the greatest action star of all time (bruce lee second) on a horse vs. a CGI'd special effect laying waste to more CGI. right on!
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Bwahahahahahaa!
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Jun 10, 2009 11:58:33 PM CDT
By the way, did anyone ever "un-LOOSE" Mr. Bale?
by idrinkyourmexicancoke
Or is he still tied up in TITBAG's basement with Titbag's cottage cheese cunt mess all over him?
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I mean, Jeffrey Goines saw that the world was a doomed madhouse that would be better off going away, but Jeffrey Goines was also stark-raving mad. Of course, James Cole was also pretty mad. But that was sort of the emotional heart as far as I saw. That in an utterly mad world full of mad people, there is still joy and happiness to be found, and that it's going to be extinguished so very soon. Maybe I just prefer it for personal emotional reasons rather than for filmmaking reasons. But I saw 12 Monkeys as being about the joy of life even in a world full of shit, and young James Cole seeing himself get killed was a metaphor for a child's first realization of his own mortality. And I just found it to be very affecting as gets his first sense of the fragility of life right before nearly all life is extinguished. With him not having any clue that he just saw HIMSELF die, and that the plane he's watching take off is the mechanism of death for the entire human species. Again, maybe this is just the point where we start injecting personal bias into movies, but the end of 12 Monkeys hit me a lot harder. Of course, I think I sort of see where you're coming from. Sarah Connor knew what was coming, while young James Cole was spared this burden. When we lament for James Cole, we sort of lament for him in the same sense that we'd feel about anyone who died. We know about their deaths, they don't. Because they're dead. But Sarah Connor has an added burden both by knowing about the horror that will happen, as well as knowing what her role in history is and what she has to do.
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I've long disliked T2 especially in comparison with the great T1. Hate the whiny kid, butch lesbo hamilton, no kill rule (wtf was that?) but compared with T4 i'll take it, annoying cryfest no-killing and all because none of that matters when it has Schwarzy and T4 has people who are not Schwarzy. And the movie isn't a blatant ripoff of another movie cough Mad Max cough like the blatant shit T4 was. True Lies though is better. On the scale it goes Predator>T1>Commando>True Lies>T2>T4
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WATCH THIS REVIEW OF T4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGsIG9bgt18
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...Pans looks good, sure. Do I give a shit about that dumb little bitch in it? No."
Jesus Christ... -
Imagine if it wasnt a Terminator movie. Imagine if it was called 'Future War', with Bale playing a guy named John Smith or whatever. Would anybody care?
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...one half of them was born back in the 70s/pre-internet times and the other (moronic) half was born in the nineties, growing up with the interweb, mobile phones, iphones, illegal downloads, movies for free, movies in stamp size, streamed movies in fucked up quality....fuck, I lost track of my argument.
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post about weather or not T5 will happen or not because of Salvation's box office performance my head is going to explode in such a way there would be no way to edit the sequence down to attain a PG-13.
Terminator Salvation is announced, McG as director. Most people bitch and moan and swear to not even see the film. McG is a hack etcetcetc. Very well cut trailer comes out with NIN music gets all of you fucks to eat your shit and go see it. Did you forget McG was still behind the film? I see the same thing happening with T5 because yall don't know any better.
I went into T4 with low expectations and ended up enjoying it for the most part. "Its beautiful", notwithstanding. -
Jun 11, 2009 2:20:25 AM CDT
Iceman... you know what they say about getting fooled twice, rig
by robertbaron
well.. heh heh... you can't get fooled again.
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You don't care cuz she's not 'merican and you're a racist.
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Time travel..check.
Monty Python guys..check.
Connery as a Scottish Roman Centurion..check.
Midgets..check with a cherry on top.
What more do you want? -
I shouldn't call them midgets. This is 2009.
I meant Native African American midgets. -
Let it fucking die already dammit.
If there's one trend i hate as much as reality shows, would be these cash crop sequels and re-tread franchices. How about some originality for a change, Hollywood.And Avatar does not count as it looks like a mash up from previous franchises. -
Since it certainly won't be in theatres before 2012...
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If T2 was unnecessary and rewrote Canon from T1, then I'd argue that T3 is totally necessary, as it manages to find a way to get to the apocalypse despite the fact that the Connors had altered the timeline. I think Danny is partially right, (not that I've seen T4), that it has to either be all 4 films or just T1 and T4. Not that I agree with him about T2, because I like it, but it does feel a bit retread-y. The Lives of Others>>>>>> Pan's by the way.
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motherfuckers.
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Seriously it is a big dumb action flick and exactly what we expected from McG. He is a hack but he is better than Ratner. I enjoyed it and thought Harry's review was typical of a man who clearly takes himself far too seriously. Harry is a good guy but man does he ramble.
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I think you're referring to DANNYGLOVERS_DICKBLOOD, you know, the guy I was QUOTING in my post.
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which is why Cameron stopped at 2. And it's really hard to get excited about part 5 after seeing part 4.
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for someone "leading" the resistance and who has seen terminators, Connor shoulda briefed his people that ONE DAY there will be robots looking like humans--trust no one! shitty plot device!
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Saw it yesterday. Editing terrible. They all had perfect white teeth. Nuff said.
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'Nuff said.
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Jun 11, 2009 10:39:37 AM CDT
FELLAS: THANKS FOR THE DEFENSE AGAINST TITBAG ATTACK
by bringingsexyback
It's good to know my back's been got!
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Come on, Hollywood, indulge us. Embrace the fun that could be had with this. If you're so insistant on retreading familiar movie ground, let's do it in an original way instead of just "rebooting/remaking" films.
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Slugs? He created slugs? They can't hear. They can't speak. They can't operate machinery. I mean, are we not in the hands of a lunatic?
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Actually, I didn't understand the anti-McG stuff, either... I liked Supernatural, but to my knowledge that's the only thing of his I'd seen... however after I saw T:S I understood it. That movie was plain awful. Throw-away characters, nearly all the actors (especially Bale, and I liked TDK) seemed bored and completely uninterested in what was going on, choppy editing, enormous plot holes, and the most God-awful ending I've seen outside of a made-for-TV flick. The special effects were the only good thing it had, but it was hampered by the other problems with the movie. It was an expensive, shiny wreck.
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of my money will be wasted on Terminator movies.
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I was merely pointing out TRUE LIES is not the work of Shakespeare folk are making it out to be. Arnie on a horse (come on) just pushed it over the edge for me. And besides, the T600 sequence in the street was mostly practical effects.
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Gotta agree with you on the T4 score....bland as hell with the exception of the two...two fucking times we heart the Terminator theme. Two fucking times? WTF is that shit? Like I said in another TB, the middle third of the movie I forgot it was a Terminator movie...why you ask? NO FUCKING TERMINATORS. That is one of my major problems with this movie. I want Terminators in my Terminator movie, is that too much to ask for? Apparently it is. You know, as much as people bash T3 (which I really liked BTW) I think maybe people who didn't like it may come to appreciate it a bit more after seeing T4. Now, I don't hate T4 as much as most people seem to, but make no mistakes I did not love it either. There were things I liked about it, but overall it felt like a wasted opportunity, and that's even more disappointing than if the entire movie sucked ass, I kinda wish I didn't like anything about it then I could just say it flat out sucked. Ehhhhhhhh oh well, here's to the destructo-fest that will be Transformers 2(i enjoyed the first btw), all I got to look forward to now LOL.
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How about Arnie owning everything in a white tux like James Bond in the beginning, or mowing down and snapping everyone's neck in the camp he's captured?
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Anyone ever noticed that?
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McG is killing the franchise
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