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Find Out Who Will Receive Those Cool TERMINATOR SALVATION Publications From Titan Books!! Winning Entries Here!!

Merrick here...
...with the results of our Titan Books TERMINATOR contest (announced HERE).

First off, I need to apologize for not getting the results out to you sooner. Been snowed under by some rather dramatic happenings in my personal life, as well as grappling with significant backlog on the AICN front. Also, this was a very tricky contest to process because: 1) 99% of the entries were quite intelligent and compelling, and... 2) there were startling similarities in roughly 80% of those entires. As such, passing summary judgement was nearly impossible in most causes...and the worthiness of entires was sometimes determined by evaluating almost ludicrous minutiae. Interestingly, Brett Ratner didn't figure in any of the submissions (woulda bet money that he would). Many people suggested saving The Library in Alexandria, although each suggested different ramifications of saving it. One entry advanced a reasonably convincing argument for hemping up the world, multiple people suggested aiding Tesla, and...again...theorized wildly differing outcomes of doing so. Many conceits were intriguing (preventing the invention of "X" - potentially impacting our modern world in "____" ways), but follow throughs were not always as well reasoned as their initial premise. BELOW: the winning entires, as well as a few "honorable mentions" who'll receive nothing other than "honorable mention" (I gebuinely don't intend this to sound as snarky as it does).


...who will receive receive THE ART OF TERMINATOR SALVATION, TERMINATOR SALVATION: THE MOVIE COMPANION, and Alan Dean Foster's TERMINATOR SALVATION novelization.. I like the poignance of this entry; it lends a DAY THE EARTH STOOOD STILL sense of pathos to the TERMINATOR mythology.
Nick Moore, Altamonte Springs FL
I would program my Terminator to show the past what we've become as people. The way we treat each other - and how only a disaster can bring us together. The way we pollute this Earth with no mean of sensitivity on how we are killing this planet. How greedy big corporations have become while the poor get poorer and they keep getting richer. Show us how our excessive spending will eventually result in turmoil. Lastly, hopefully show everyone that instead of big fancy expensive things, all we ever needed to be happy was each other.


One target for termination....... 1. Gavrilo Princip, 25 July 1894 ..... If he was killed he wouldnt have assissinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand and caused WW1,,, which in turn, caused Adolf Hitler to serve in the German Army, thus becomeing dissatisfied with the Treaty of Versailles when the war ended. In 1923 he attempted a coup in the form of the Beer Hall Putsch, which in turn he went to jail for and wrote Mein Kampf. And the rest is history. Now im not saying that the termimation of this person would have changed much, it is a possiblity, and would have saved MILLIONS of lives between servicemen and the persecution of the Jews in Europe.

Gus Gonzales, III Austin, TX.
I would send a Terminator back in time to guard then-U.S. Senator Robert Kennedy from assassination on June 5, 1968.  It would be programmed to assume the identity of an FBI or Secret Service agent assigned to Kennedy's detail, and I would program it to guard Kennedy from his victory in the 1968 California primary through a General Election Victory and on through to the extent of whatever presidential terms he might have served. The vision and scope of Kennedy's candidacy would have transformed American society, politics and power in the midst of a crucial turning point that irrevocably impacted succeeding decades, across the spectrum.  "Fear not the path of truth for the lack of people walking on it" he stated in his last speech, given hours before he was killed.  Imagine how very different our nation and our individual lives would have been had he lived to fulfill that promise.

Aaron B Mayeski, Yulee FL
I would send a re-programmed T-888 back in time to Assassinate Ramses the I, Pharaoh of Egypt. Ramses the 1st felt threatened by the Jewish race and how they populated so quickly, that is why he tried to destroy them. Killing him would mean that Baby Moses would be just another slave boy and he would never grow up to be a Jewish Messianic figure who let the people of out Egypt, and into the desert for 40 years to become the Jewish people they are today. This would result in an alternate universe where the Bible was never written, the story and time line of Christ would be different or non-existent, and the Roman Empire would have not become Catholic, Christendom no being spread this entire world would be completely different. This would have stopped the crusades, the inquisitions, the Empires of Great Britton, and America, and possibly the holocaust.

Sidney Friedfertig, Brooklyn NY
I would send the Terminator back to Jerusalem to save and protect the life of Jesus. There would be no resurrection and as Jesus grew old he would show his followers that he was not a god but a man. Throughout history if given enough time great men have shown themselves to be less than great and fallible and subject to human needs and desires. There would be no Christianity and hundreds of millions of lives would have been saved over nonsensical religious wars.

Nick Coulthurs, Liverpool England
  I would send a terminator to kill Thomas Edison on or around 1888, freeing the way for Nikola Tesla. This might have led to free energy, a short life span for the internal combustion engine and subsequently no need for the many wars, pollution, greedy oil barons and much of the general crap we are facing now.   Fanciful perhaps>


The following four entries that made my final selection, but I couldn't select them as recipients because they lacked addresses - a requirement clearly specified on the contest rules. Thought they were worthy of sharing & discussing all the same... Brian Catton, location unknown.
I would send my Terminator to around 5 century BC, roughly around the time Jesus was supposedly born.  Assuming the concept of Jesus is true, I would have my Terminator kill Jesus and all those who knew of his existence.  The Terminator would go on to kill all of the apostles, all of the people with passage s in the new/old testament and erase any notion, idea or memory of Jesus or Catholisicm.  Without Jesus, Christianity would not be born and would drastically alter the status of our current time of 2009.  Undoubtedly other reltions would flurish, specifically buddhism which started around 486 BC.  This one change would absolutely and undeniable alter every single thing we know and would make our world as it is in 2009 completely unrecognizable.

Greg Hettinger, location unknown.
Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death Rode the six hundred. In a flash of light, flash of steel, a Terminator would lead them into the valley of Death Into the mouth of Hell Rode the six hundred. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon in front of them The Terminator did not give a shit. Right thro' the line they broke; Cossack and Russian Reel'd from the liquid metal sabre stroke Shatter'd and sunder'd by the T modeled number'd man with the glowing red eyes. Cannon to right of them, Cannon to left of them, Cannon behind them Volley'd and thunder'd; Storm'd at with shot and shell, While horse and hero fell, they fought with all they had to give when at last the metal man spoke come with me if you want to live. O the wild charge they made as all the world wondered. how they prevented an alliance cascade that would lead the world into war if not for the bravery of the man with red eyes and the Noble six hundred; during the victorious charge of The Light Brigade.

Erik Rentmeester , location unknown
In the Library at Alexandria. First steam engine, early antibiotics, philosophy of respect for science, location of Atlantis and untold treasures of archeology. Many historians believe that the fire set back our culture 2,000 years. There was also a great respect for the belief that humans disrespect nature (the gods), at their own peril.   Perhaps this would have continued our enlightenment...and tied our science closer to fundamental morality, thus keeping us from trying to make machines to replace ourselves and what the ancients considered a soul. A terminator could have eliminated fanatical religion from the equation of that many believe that religion was the reason for the destruction of the Library, or its contents, in the first place.   Thus, if it came, Judgement Day would have been a thousand years ago, and we would be living in the eternal Utopia created after the toasting of the planet.

And, finally, I respectfully tip my hat to the following... Chris Smith, Lincoln, CA
Helga Schrecklicher Filme made a decision that impacted the fate of millions.   A terminator must be sent back in time to terminate her, for a decision she made must be undone for the betterment of mankind.   On a warm summer Sunday, she met a man named Albert in Wermelskirchen, Germany.   The two fell in love and were married in a month’s time.   On September 22, 1964 they made a choice to conceive a child.   That child’s name was Uwe Boll.

An odd side note to one of the publications above: the novelization of the film actually contains a different ending than the conclusion used in the film. As I understand the matter, the novelization's ending was made different to maintain the secrecy of the film's ending...but, by buying the novelization...readers can log onto a website to download the actual ending of the book. At least, I think that's right. HUGE thanks to Titan Books for not only making this contest possible, but for handling prize fulfillment. You can find more information about the titles by clicking HERE.

Readers Talkback
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  • May 27, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST


    by Foomas


  • May 27, 2009, 12:06 p.m. CST

    Here's the ending.

    by imagin78

    McG destroyed a beloved franchise. The End.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:09 p.m. CST

    Damn you, McG! Damn you to hell!!!

    by Motoko Kusanagi

    You totally fucking ruined a great franchise that stopped existing after 1991.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:11 p.m. CST


    by TennesseeKorben

    Gee. What's with all the Christian hate? I can understand ONE anti-Christian entry winning, but geez, there were 4 or 5 that won. Christians should file a complaint and claim they had no chance of winning since there was clearly some religious bias in the choosing of winners.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:11 p.m. CST

    These Books Should be Burned


    Along with every film print of Terminator Salvation.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:13 p.m. CST


    by TennesseeKorben

    They would rather burn Jesus, his apostles, and ANY Christians that burn those books or film.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:18 p.m. CST

    Who The Fuck Picked These Essays


    Beyond offensive. Who are these pathetic creatures that wrote this shit. We get it you hate Jesus. I for one have major problems with Christianity as I do with Islam, but taking cheap swipes instead of stating your issues logically is again, simply offensive.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:20 p.m. CST


    by aceattorney

    Still laughing.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:21 p.m. CST

    i wonder

    by simondark

    if the companion is as bad as the movie

  • May 27, 2009, 12:22 p.m. CST

    Thanks TennesseeKorbe, Merrick you should be ashamed


    Thanks for the heads up Korben I wouldnt have read these essays otherwise.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:24 p.m. CST


    by jimmy_009

    I would program my Terminator to be nice to everyone, make flower necklaces, and sing campfire songs to the people of the past. I would tell them to please be nice to each other, love our planet, and WHAT THE FUCK?!?! It's a goddamn terminator? Is that what this contest was supposed to be about?

  • May 27, 2009, 12:25 p.m. CST

    The Winning Entry

    by TennesseeKorben

    So you would send a KILLING machine to show the immorallity of man? That makes sense. *insert eye roll here* Everyone will never be happy and get along. Hippies need to realize that. There is ALWAYS going to be some one offended.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:26 p.m. CST

    All of the runner ups = infinitely more on topic than the winner

    by jimmy_009

    Fuck this contest. The whole point is that you're sending a TERMINATOR back in time. They kill, they protect. They don't give powerpoint presentations on how we should all be nice to each other. Weak.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:28 p.m. CST

    Chris Smith FTW

    by RaveX

    milk all over my keyboard...

  • May 27, 2009, 12:29 p.m. CST

    Gotta say, I concur

    by BenBraddock

    The winner is seriously weak, and didn't really give us what we were asked for.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:29 p.m. CST

    The Last One

    by TennesseeKorben

    Was solid gold. Good job!

  • May 27, 2009, 12:31 p.m. CST

    LOL @ Jimmy009

    by TennesseeKorben

    Yeah, only AL GORE can give those kind of power point presentations. AND THEN SELL IT AS A MOVIE OF ALL THINGS!

  • May 27, 2009, 12:33 p.m. CST

    Merrick, I appreciate your desire to end the plague of Christian

    by dr sauch

    I'm glad those were up there.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:41 p.m. CST


    by Unwashedmasses

    Wow. No one has a problem with Islam. It's all Christ's fault. Allah be praised! Love to see a world in which Islam has free reign - wait, I will see it. Because of all you neo-hippies most of the world will be under the crescent in our lifetimes. The only benefit being leftwing sites like this one will cease to exist (as will the Internet). If I could send a Terminator back in time, I would have him terminate Harry Knowles and spare the world the overwrought ejaculate that passes for his "reviews" of film.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:45 p.m. CST

    why all the jesus hate?

    by Turd Furgeson

    Jesus and the message are sound, and extremely peaceful.. It was only 200 years after his death did the message get perverted by men for the control and manipulation of mankind... and I say this as a proud athiest...

  • May 27, 2009, 12:48 p.m. CST

    Chris Smith! Hah.

    by kikuchiyoboy

    That's the clear winner. It had a good pace with a "woah" ending. <br> <br> It was written better than T4.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:52 p.m. CST

    I'm not a religilous man but some of these

    by kikuchiyoboy

    entries are a little creepy. <br> <br> The Termintor story of killing Jesus and all his Apostles doesn't make sense. It's fucking Jesus, he died and ROSE FROM THE DEAD?! Heh. To his buddies blasted to bits would just create an even greater wrath. <br> <br> I don't even believe in Jesus, but some of those entries were kinda lame. I did like the Jesus/Cylon. Heh.

  • May 27, 2009, 12:57 p.m. CST

    Yeah this contest blew

    by jimmy_009

    Half the winners are "Christianity Sucks", and the grand prize winner was way off topic.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:02 p.m. CST

    Was pretty hilarious.

    by Liquid Meddle

    But whoever picked these has some serious issues. The "Jehova's Witness" series of Terminators will be knocking on your door shortly.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:04 p.m. CST

    Oh, and the winning entry..

    by Liquid Meddle

    Sounds too Miss America for me. Sorry.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:05 p.m. CST

    This would be cool...

    by AssassinWithSon

    if TSAL wasn't the worst Summer blockbuster I have seen in years.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST


    by AssassinWithSon

    Did we really expect anything less from someone calling themselves "McG"? That has to be the lamest attempt at a cool nickname I have ever seen.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:07 p.m. CST

    I'm suprised no one wrote

    by kikuchiyoboy

    a Terminator to terminate this film being made.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:12 p.m. CST

    Double also...

    by AssassinWithSon

    If we were to send a Terminator back into the past to change something, (although it hasn't been 100% proven in experiments) we would more than likely never see the affects of that change. The change would be seen in a split timeline that we would only be able to experience if we went back in time with the terminator and then went forward in time after the split. Doc Brown was right folks.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:13 p.m. CST

    "They don't give powerpoint presentations

    by seppukudkurosawa

    on how to be nice to each other."<p> Ironically, that's pretty much the ending of Harlan Ellison's Soldier, on which The Terminator is supposedly based (although I reckon there's more than a bit of Philip K Dick's Second Variety, too).<p> Props to Merrick for his picks. Jesus & Co. were a sickness, promoting ascetism and sucking the vitality out of the human race wherever they went. Churches are pretty, though.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:15 p.m. CST

    Marrick, weren't there two categories?

    by Zombie_Wolfman

    There aren't any winners for "How you would find an army of Terminators in the Present Day." This was my entry: <br> QUESTION OPTION #2: If Skynet machines (marching, rolling, flying, or otherwise) were invading our present day world (like they might in TERMINATOR 5)...and if you were far away from the nearest would you stop the machines? <br> I would try to locate the nearest working power plant. <br> I would then scrounge for a capacitor from a TV, copper wire, a time delay circuit, and a pure iron core. <br> Next, using said materials I would create a time delay EMP (electro-magnetic pulse). <br> Enlisting the aid of a beautiful accomplice, steal a car, preferably high performance. <br> Try to locate the machines, and entice them to follow you. <br> Drive past the power plant as the EMP detonates, rendering the machines useless while you celebrate. <br> Wooo! Congrads to the winners.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:43 p.m. CST

    McG would TERMINATE HARRY!!!

    by HarryBlackPotter

    In fact, if I were McG I'd hire a "fuck-u-up-agram" and have the caller turn up at Harry's door in one of those T-600's knock on Harry's door and say "Suck my shit covered dick, cripple!"

  • May 27, 2009, 1:47 p.m. CST

    What a stupid contest.

    by jarjarmessiah

    The Uwe Boll story was the best.

  • May 27, 2009, 1:50 p.m. CST

    Muslim-targeted Terminators?

    by whackmeyer

    I never talkback, but this is just stupid now. Funny how the "Internet intelligentsia" are still bent on anonymously slamming Christianity from their keyboards at every turn. Funny how this contest was full of Jesus-bashing, but nobody would dare post anything against Buddhism or even Islam, for example. Why exactly is that again? Christians are safe to ridicule, that's why. It's hip and easy. They won't send Harry a letterbomb for posting Jesus-slams. And before somebody else pulls the Crusades out of their butts yet again, you might want to crack open a history book instead of watching "Kingdom of Heaven" on dvd, and see that whole scene was a big mess on both sides. Funny how most of the practicing Christians I know are not the holier-than-thou caricatures that talkbalkers giddily mock to sound superior, but are actually found moreso at work in the inner cities, volunteering with homeless folks and troubled kids, adopting the unwanted, serving their communities and each other, even when ugly human nature pops up now and then. Most of them are trying real hard to live up to a positive standard day by day and love their neighbors in the process, what are the rest of us doing? Saying that Christians are all a bunch of Crusading holier-than-thous is like saying that all Muslims are turban wearing bomb-lobbers, but nobody would dare utter something so ridiculous about that religion, which some could argue has been used as the battle cry for some of the most brutal and destructive religiously motivated acts of our time. QUESTION: If you lived in Springfield as a child and just found out your parents were in a car accident, who would you want as a neighbor on the scene, Homer or Flanders? Really? If you really need the safety of Jesus Christ for your "witty mockings" I guess that's your safest bet after all. And yeah, what's up with the sparkle and shine Miss American speech winning grand prize? I give up on these contests that award crap that doesn't really fit the contest anyway. (Anyone remember the Wii contest about a year ago with all those really cool entries and then some guy's dad talking won the contest? Guess what, lots of our dads played video games with us.)

  • May 27, 2009, 1:58 p.m. CST

    i would send the terminator back to take out the winners...

    by HaterofCrap

    because of all the lame entries! imagine what a better world it would be to never having read that crap!

  • May 27, 2009, 1:59 p.m. CST


    by chuffsterUK

    I'm sorry,I'm 39,I shouldn't,but I laughed my fucking arse off at your comment :)

  • May 27, 2009, 2 p.m. CST

    Machine Gun Jesus

    by theoldgunslinger

    Terminator and machine gun Jesus would so kick hippie terminator's ass.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:02 p.m. CST

    A good entry?

    by whackmeyer

    I would send a Terminator back to the shores of 1607 Virginia, programmed under the command of Chief Powhatan to turn away John Smith and company from ever landing their ships and meeting Pocahontas. Initially there would still be much fighting among native populations over who controlled the Terminator, but imagine the military and eventual technological boost to the native peoples of North America, giving them a more prominent place in the world generations after, on a more even international playing field, from this one unstoppable machine. This machine in the hands of the Native American population would eventually change the course of attempted European takeover and eventual mistreatment of native peoples (with no Cherokee Trail of Tears, no reservations systems, no degradation or decimation of entire centuries-old tribes, and a flourishing native population today, meaning less pollution, etc.). (Perhaps eventually North American native populations would even invade across the oceans and take over Europe, the Terminator at the lead, fueling military morale and striking superstitious terror into fleeing Europeans at this "silver savage devil with eyes of burning hellfire.") However, the real primary benefit, of sending the Terminator to that time and place, to mankind longterm would be that the world would never have become subjected to Disney's awful 1995 Pocahontas film (not to mention Mel Gibson's "singing"), thus making our present day world that much happier and brighter.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:02 p.m. CST


    by SunTzu77

    if you believe Jesus is God incarnate... the Terminator couldn't do jack to him. But, who did pick these essays? They're as dumb as a box of rocks. You could write an essay about trying to terminate Jesus but not McG? What a bunch of maroons.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:05 p.m. CST

    Been coming here since 2000 (formerly Doom II)

    by Quake II

    I like Terminator 1 & 2 a lot. I saw Terminator 2 about 5 times in the theater and many more on VHS/DVD. I'm obviously a fan of the series. I thought T3 was a waste of film and I watched it once at the theater. Never again. I am still baffled by the angry, vile review that T4 received last week. Terminator Salvation is actually a pretty cool film overall with a couple of amazing action scenes that raise the bar (Connor's no-cut helicopter crash anyone?). I thought the Charlie's Angels films were a joke and was confident that Terminator 4 would be quick-cut and unviewable....McG actually crafted a good film that skips the ADD style of filmmaking and SHOWS THE ACTION in long scenes. Good for him. A year ago I wrote him off as a music video director with no vision or attention span, and now I actually think McG may be a director to keep an eye on. WTF is up with Harry and Terminator 4? T4 is a much better film than a lot of the shit this site pushes. I smell a rat.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Jimmy09's right! Powerpoint guy's your winner?!

    by The_Man_Behind_The_Curtain

    C'mon now!

  • May 27, 2009, 2:14 p.m. CST

    Im Chris Smith

    by diseptikon

    The first and only option for me to have a terminator kill was Uwe Boll from the start. His parents names were made up for their protection, but the dates and locations were as accurate as possible. Anyone who speaks German would have noticed the sleight at Helgas last name. Schrecklicher Filme translates to "terrible film" in English.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:16 p.m. CST

    Killing Jesus = This year would not be called "2009".

    by FleshMachine

    think about it.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:17 p.m. CST

    "Fuck this movie"

    by IndyCollector

    I recall a fat, red-headed tool saying that about this film. But yet here his site is shilling out merchandise for it. "Fuck that fatty."

  • May 27, 2009, 2:19 p.m. CST

    btw Christianity and Islam are EXACTLY the same!

    by FleshMachine

    read the Bible, read the Koran, read history, read the newspaper. differences are superficial at most.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:25 p.m. CST

    To all the idiots that think Christianity is the blight of the w

    by jimmy_009

    Including most of the winners of this contest, you do realize that the same atrocities would still happen, they would just be in the name of some other religion, right? You do realize that the psycho's, haters, killers, douchebags of the world would still be doing the exact same things, just using a different a excuse? And you also realize you sound just as stupid and narrowminded as the people you complain about sitting in your freshman dorm room. And this comes from an atheist. Grow the fuck up.

  • I would send a Terminator to Munich, Germany, on Nov. 8, 1923. Minutes before a young Adolph Hitler was to storm a meeting in the Bürgerbräukeller and declare his new government, the Terminator would approach Hitler – who would already be choking to death right about now – and rip off his balls and leave him to bleed to death while saying, "I'll be Bach." The Terminator would then bury Hitler’s balls in a time capsule in a pre-planned location. Seconds after sending my Terminator back in time, I would walk over to the pre-planned location, dig up the time capsule, and remove Hitler’s mummified balls. I would then send a second Terminator back to a few minutes before the last one arrived, and my second Terminator would shove Hitler’s balls down Hitler’s own throat. That is why Hitler would be choking when he got his balls ripped off by the original Terminator – he’d be choking on his own balls as they were ripped off by a robot from the future.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:30 p.m. CST

    I mean, my entry's got everything...

    by Leadley

    Hitler. Hitler's balls. And Hitler choking on his own balls. Time travel. Robots. Could the judges please reconsider the entries? Can I call for a recount? I mean, my entry had Hitler. And Hitler's balls. And robots. And time travel. And Hitler choking on his own balls...

  • May 27, 2009, 2:34 p.m. CST

    I just need a little clarification...

    by Leadley

    I'm not sure what else I could have added. Let's see...Maybe I could have had something about Hitler choking on his balls...No, no wait. Had that. That was in there. Hmm. Maybe a robot of some kind ripping off Hitler's balls and then...nope, nope. Just remembered. Had it. Had the choking on his own balls before they were ripped off because of time travel. Jeez. I'm just at a loss here.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:37 p.m. CST

    So what we're saying here...

    by Leadley

    is that an entry where a Terminator goes back and just kills Hitler is a winner, but an entry where a Terminator goes back and stuffs Hitler's balls down his throat before they are even ripped off because they were sent through time is a loser. I mean, come on, man. Mine had everything that one did, PLUS it had Hitler gettin' his Wayne Bradies ripped off. What the fff?

  • May 27, 2009, 2:38 p.m. CST

    Get Real...


    ...Christianity is NOT the's just PART of the problem. Religion as a whole is the true culprit behind many of mankind's greatest problems. Get your Termiator to find a way to eliminate religion and THEN you'd have something!!!

  • May 27, 2009, 2:40 p.m. CST

    In conclusion:

    by Leadley

    Hitler dead with Rico Suavies intact = free books. Hitler dead with Hardcastle and McCormacs in peril = go purchase your own books.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:41 p.m. CST

    I suppose it was helpful to be a leftist anti-Christian bigot

    by CreatureCantina

    I wonder if they considered any of the entries that proposed going back and executing Stalin, saving 10 million innocent people.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:45 p.m. CST

    Here are a few more nicknames for Hitler's balls:

    by Leadley

    Aborigines, lemons , the maiden’s prayers, Susan B. Anthony’s, cellar sacks, the 7-10 split, chacka kahns, Crockett and Tubbs, the howling commandoes, the Kojaks, Culp and Cosby, the deep blues, the royal ambassadors, Sonny and Cher, the ghost and the darkness, the pips, cat’s eyes, the Lambert and Peebles, sweet potato pie, and the O.J.s.

  • May 27, 2009, 2:52 p.m. CST

    I really should be surprised at these posts but i am not.

    by get_a_life_knobhead

    Some of these posts if not all are really shameful, if you need to grow the fuck up and stop being so pathetic. This competition was a bit of fun, that’s all… maybe the Terminator should be sent back to stop you bunch of fucks!

  • May 27, 2009, 2:56 p.m. CST

    Progressive Liberal bias aplenty...

    by Tacoloft

    I would program my Terminator to show the past what we've become as people. (Who's past? How exactly have we become as people?) The way we treat each other - and how only a disaster can bring us together. (Not true – people come together all the time. Disasters bring a-holes together with the rest of humanity) The way we pollute this Earth with no mean of sensitivity on how we are killing this planet. (Are you kidding me! We are all sensitive Sallys with regards to being green this and green that. The earth is fine! In a long enough timeline you will understand that the earth is one huge recycling system in and of itself!) How greedy big corporations have become while the poor get poorer and they keep getting richer. (How about the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT – biggest greedy corporation in the fracking planet! This corporation is killing all other smaller corporations.) Show us how our excessive spending will eventually result in turmoil. (*cough* GOVERNMENT *cough* There is NOTHING wrong with private citizens spending to their hearts content if they can afford it.) Lastly, hopefully show everyone that instead of big fancy expensive things, all we ever needed to be happy was each other. (one word: SOCIALISM) Screw this grand prize winner and his STUPID STUPID EMOTIANAL kneejerk response. Thanks again AICN for rewarding mediocrity and stupidity at the same time.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:14 p.m. CST

    The people of the past?

    by ROBRAM89

    Does the winner really believe that The People of the Past were such moral paragons that they would be utterly stunned to see things like war and disharmony and pollution? People in "the past" were, by and large, assholes, ignorant assholes, and basically invented all of these things. A good number of them would be disappointed that we let black people vote, but apparently the idea of people driving SUV's and the war in Iraq or whatever the fuck would somehow be anathema to those wise, wonderful people.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:16 p.m. CST

    Why enter???

    by Kid Z

    You'll be able to get these for practically free in about another week from your local Borders anyway.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:25 p.m. CST

    Kid Z, that's what future Terminator was for.

    by kikuchiyoboy

    Future Terminator could have warned them of this T4 shitfest and this useless contest will be a colossal waist of time. <br> <br> But instead they sent it back to kill Jesus.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST

    If they didn't have their head in the sand,

    by kikuchiyoboy

    they would know that in the Jesus stories told a bazzilion times... he friggen RISES from the dead anyways. heh.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:41 p.m. CST

    Nice to see...


    Nice to see the Talkbacks going a different direction than the "Kill Jesus" bull shit the competition edged towards... It's been said already, but yes, absolutely if there was never a Jesus, the insane fucks of the world would find a different reason to hate. Kill. Be awful. This contest alone shows that. Lets send a killing machine back in time to kill a man of peace and love, all his friends, and anyone affiliated, so that other idiots don't kill in his name down the line... yay for sanity. 2000 years of peace and everyone getting along!

  • May 27, 2009, 3:43 p.m. CST


    by Toonol

    Why all the retroactive elimination of Jesus, and no love for going back and killing Mohammad?

  • May 27, 2009, 3:44 p.m. CST


    by Toonol

    Exactly. Go to the past and show them images of today... they'll beg to come back with you.<p> The past is kind of a temporal version of Mexico.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Mad TV skit where Terminator PROTECTS Jesus?

    by turketron_2

    Wasn't there one? Terminator kept killing Judas and Jesus kept reviving him, yelling "STOP KILLING JUDAS!"<p> Kudos on the Uwe Boll one.

  • May 27, 2009, 3:53 p.m. CST

    Terminator in Jerusalem? That was on MAD TV wasn't it?

    by Squinty CGI Flynn

    Jesus: "Would you PLEASE STOP KILLING JUDAS? You're really bumming me out, man."

  • May 27, 2009, 4:05 p.m. CST

    The Alternative

    by sloanist

    Yes, Terminator, go kill Jesus. Then we might be lucky enough to live in Muslim countries. Much better, right?

  • May 27, 2009, 4:08 p.m. CST

    When I take a look at the talkbacks...


    about TERMINATOR SALVATION, I see a lot of people who didn't like the movie. If that's the case...WHY THE FUCK DO YOU CARE SO MUCH ABOUT THESE BOOKS???????

  • May 27, 2009, 4:12 p.m. CST

    OH, YEAH....


    I happened to have enjoyed TERMINATOR SALVATION. It's not a great movie by any means but it was okay action flick. But I don't give a hoot in Hell about the books!!!

  • May 27, 2009, 4:13 p.m. CST

    I would send a Terminator back in time to

    by lockesbrokenleg


  • May 27, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST



    Because our school sytems breed twats like these contestants who know jack shit about history, human nature, religion, and morality.

  • May 27, 2009, 4:23 p.m. CST

    the 1st of many

    by bauer316

    I got lots of these.. Id send my terminator back to feburary 11,1990,,have him place a GIGANTIC bet on Buster Douglas,bring me back the winnings,,then id make it rain at the strip club using my terminator as the ultimate bodyguard

  • May 27, 2009, 4:47 p.m. CST

    This is REDICULOUS...

    by damagedinc

    It's plain ignorant to place the world's problems on Jesus and the Church. And it makes me mad. It is SO bourgeois to hate on Christianity at this level. How about the rest of the Christian world who experience real joy and hope, the poor and oppressed people that you think you're advocating for? For all of the ills you attribute to Christianity, what have you done to make any difference at all? Do you really think that taking your public stand against religion is making anything in the world any better? It drives me crazy. The churches have always been on the front line for helping people. They're the ones working to help the poor and making sacrifices. They're the ones doing everything you think you're doing by sticking your nose up on Christians. Secular organizations do it and do it well, but they didn't do it first. Christians don't have a corner on mercy, compassion, forgiveness and sacrifice but they've been the cultural touchstone and they're faith set the standard. I get so mad because I go on this site to get geek news and instead I get to feel like I just got preached at. You don't have to be religious to preach, and every so often the soap box mentality on here is suffocating.

  • May 27, 2009, 5:36 p.m. CST

    Well put.

    by whackmeyer

    Although your spelling threw me off at first, that was well put, damagedinc. I also come here for geek news and fun contests, and at this point the "cocky, witty hateful self-righteous" slamming of anything remotely Christian has gotten pretty old. Have any of these whiners ever been mistreated somehow by the church? It's all self-righteous ignorant crap, from folks who like to hear themselves talk and sound "deep" or something I guess. I think I've had my fill. I understand there is a site about dark horizons or something that has just as cool news without the ridiculous childish crap. Not everybody has to agree on the debate issues, but for crying out loud, give me a break. This is the same mentality at work here that most likely complained about their school principal, groused about school lunches and muttered criticisms about the students that tried to get decent grades. It's always easier to try and pull folks down than to get up and try to be better yourself. I've been an aicn fan for years and years and I think maybe this instance tells me it's finally time for greener pastures, rich in geek news and fewer ignorant ranting cowpies to step in.

  • May 27, 2009, 5:36 p.m. CST

    the scary thing

    by frank cotton

    is the similarities in 80% of the entries. seeing as there were so many anti-religion winners, i'm assuming those were that 80%. they better hope there isn't a hell...the TESLA entry should have won

  • May 27, 2009, 5:37 p.m. CST

    Not that I reckon this is the place to post this

    by seppukudkurosawa

    but this little haiku perfectly sums up my position here:

  • May 27, 2009, 5:41 p.m. CST

    Is the Winner's Terminator, Tiny Tim from Christmas Carol?

    by Drunken Busboy

    "Merry Christmas To All Because I'll Be Back!" Good Grief! How can a Terminator "Show" anyone anything? Who would believe it? At least my entry not only saved the ArchDuke to prevent WWI & WWII but it also Saved JOHN LENNON!!! I REPEAT SAVED JOHN LENNON!! How on earth can you say NO to SAVING JOHN LENNON!?? That is a no brainer! JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, Ghandi were all politically motivated murders! Lennon was murdered by a nut! Not one of your so called "winners", honorable mentions or whatever never mentions SAVING JOHN LENNON!! NOT ONE! AGAIN A NO BRAINER!! Hell having the Terminator stopping Elvis from taking a fateful shit in 1977 is way better than what was chosen as a "winner"! Geesh! Do you even know who John Lennon is?

  • May 27, 2009, 5:44 p.m. CST


    by elwood_p_dud

    I'm gonna have to say some of the winners are epic cunts.

  • May 27, 2009, 5:46 p.m. CST

    None of these were better than mine.

    by Vindibudd

    If you were to send a Terminator back in time (from present day) to change the modern world, what would you program your Terminator (to) do, and why? 1. Kevin Bacon is 6 degrees from everyone! 2. I would disguise my terminator as Kevin Bacon! 3. I would then send Kevin Baconator back to 1838 to meet Karl Marx! 4. Marx will readily welcome him as a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend! 5. Kevin Baconator will enlighten Marx with advanced capitalistic economic theory and footloose dancing! 6. Marx abandons communism to open a hugely successful and profitable dance studio, thereby saving hundreds of millions of lives in the future!

  • May 27, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST



    Maybe the next time you Ain't It Cool guys have some stuff to give away, you should just throw names in a hat and draw them out from there. Then you will avoid all of the bullshit and talkback turmoil that ensues when you do something like this.

  • May 27, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST

    Aaron is my best friend

    by Kloipy

    Way to go man!

  • May 27, 2009, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Mine was that the Terminator got sent back to

    by lockesbrokenleg

    protect Hitler when is bunker got blown up at the end of WWII

  • May 27, 2009, 5:57 p.m. CST


    by raystevensonwarzone

    but thats okay because the new terminator sucked ballz

  • May 27, 2009, 6:07 p.m. CST

    And at least I was creative...

    by Vindibudd

    Winners = I'd kill Jesus LULZ! Really stupid uncreative and unfunny choices, Merrick. I think I can skip the rest of your articles from this point on since, you apparently let the facts that you A. Hate Jesus. B. Hate Jesus. C. Think the planet can get destroyed by "pollution" when it has survived things like meteor strikes that killed dinosaurs, define your choices for winners in a creative writing contest. Therefore your ability to articulate a legitimate critique of any art without your own prejudice getting in the way is exactly zero on a scale of one to ten.

  • May 27, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    by theoldgunslinger

    Sounds like some of you are still pissed off that they found the missing link.

  • May 27, 2009, 7:27 p.m. CST


    by damagedinc

    Sounds like someone's doing a bad job acting clever...and you're stereotyping.

  • May 27, 2009, 7:38 p.m. CST

    Ooooh, Merrick hates organized religion. THAT'S EDGY!!!!!

    by TallBoy66

    Yeah, real shocking stuff there. Way to stand out from the herd. Now be a good geek sheep and say "Baaaaahhh", Merrick.

  • May 27, 2009, 8:04 p.m. CST

    I didn't put my address..

    by The Dark Shite

    Somehow I misread "Include your name and mailing address in this e-mail" as "include your email address". I even realised I hadn't added my email address & wrote again to say "Here's my email address." Oh well. <p> I wouldn't have won anyway. He said "Above all HAVE FUN!" So I took that literally & came up with what I thought was a clever joke. I didn't know I was supposed to send back a Ghandi Terminator to sit in the place of the real one & stop him from starving to death. <p>

  • May 27, 2009, 9:27 p.m. CST

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    by benlinus

    This is about as lame as it gets. That "1st Place" winner was about as dumb as a box of rocks. God this is stupid, peace, love, granola, blah blah blah...I mean, its the TERMINATOR! How bout sending him back to 1933 Berlin to pull Hitlers heart out and shove it down his throat, thereby saving the lives of, what a stupid article. I guess theres NOTHING better in the entertainment world to be talking about. I'd rather hear about Jack Nicholson's latest bowel movement.....

  • May 27, 2009, 9:31 p.m. CST

    my entry didn't win but here it is anyway

    by Kloipy

    I'd send a terminator back in time to meet Scrooge McDuck, and rob that mother fucker blind

  • May 27, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    Fuck John Lennon

    by The Bicycle Sharer

    That motherfucker deserved to die...<p>And a lot fucking sooner to.<p>I'm not saying he deserved to die like a Kennedy deserves to die of brain cancer or cranial lead poisoning, but still...<p>Motherfucker had it coming.

  • May 27, 2009, 9:46 p.m. CST

    Relax, oversensitive Christians...

    by ebonic_plague got another chance to bitch about always being unjustly persecuted, didn't you? Merrick did you guys a favor. <p> Leadley is the real winner here, though. Although it should've been Bush or Reagan choking on his own moldy balls, as if Hitler never came to power, we wouldn't have had any good WWII movies, and video games would never have progressed beyond Pong.

  • May 27, 2009, 9:53 p.m. CST

    Bicycle sharer

    by ebonic_plague

    I know I'll regret asking this... but would you care to explain why? Was it just a typo in your anti-communist newsletter, or did Lennon just borrow your bicycle and never return it?

  • May 27, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    This Site = Anti-American/ Anti-Christian

    by GeorgieBoy

    Amazing. Any entries call for the termination of Muhammad? Why, his extermination might have averted all this terrorist activity that we have today! The Twin Towers would still be standing if it weren't for Islam!

  • May 27, 2009, 10:01 p.m. CST

    But, GeorgieBoy...

    by ebonic_plague

    ...if Muhammad was terminated at birth, and Islam never existed, where would you focus all your impotent jingoist hatred? You guys need and deserve each other.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    OffingJesus, or more importantly Saint Paul,

    by seppukudkurosawa

    who was like the Plato to Jesus' Socrates, would also nullify Muhammad by default, seeing as his doctrine was an unashamed remake/extension of Christianity (albeit a tad more Earthbound- he was a businessman after all).<p> And sure as shit individuals make a difference. Some folks are born just dripping with charisma and vision, which snowballs and snowballs until we have history! Sure, some emerge out of necessity, but saying that, "Oh, someone else would have come along anyway" is making a pretty huge supposition. If The Beatles didn't exist, would music be the same today? Hell naw.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:19 p.m. CST


    by most excellent ninja

    If Man U vs Arsenal was Men vs boys. then Man U vs Barca was Men vs GODS! Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. Gods.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:20 p.m. CST


    by damagedinc

    No man, he didn't. My point is that you guys no squat about religion and have no sure footing on your arguments, just platitudes. Making a quick run to Wikipedia doesn't make your arguments better. You're not putting the time in. You're not doing your homework. Even the above jab on Paul shows the depth of research. It's like browsing the cover story of Newsweek around a religious holiday. If your going to act condescending at least be justified by saying something that's least a little bit thoughtful. Or do something positive instead of being a hater.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:25 p.m. CST

    This was my entry..

    by The Dark Shite

    I answered question 2. I can't remember the exact words, but it was something like..<p> "If Terminators from the future invaded, I'd break into the present day Skynet & install windows 2000. Skynet would crash, the future Terminators would never be built & Judgement day would be known as "Windows has caused an error & needs to shut down" day.<p> I had an awful hangover at the time, but it's still gotta be better than using a cyborg killing machine to teach man the error of his ways. <p> It's not like BSG or hippies never existed. I guess next time he asks for something fun I should write something really serious about stealing milk from baby Jesus.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:29 p.m. CST

    Not to take away from the winners though..

    by The Dark Shite

    The selection process seems to have been pretty unfair/bizarre. But congrats to those who won stuff!

  • May 27, 2009, 10:38 p.m. CST

    Christianity is an easy target

    by frank cotton

    as you generally do not have to worry about its followers tracking you down and cutting off your head when you've maligned it. maligning Islam, on the other hand...

  • May 27, 2009, 10:47 p.m. CST

    Is this a religious debate now?

    by The Dark Shite

    Oh joy. Just what a talkback needs. The way I see it, they're all as bad as each other. <p> The Christians I've spoken to have been some of the most closed-minded unenlightened, hateful, intolerant, spiteful people I've ever met. In short not very "Christian". I'm sure Muslims are just the same. <p> I'm glad I worship Zardoz.

  • May 27, 2009, 10:50 p.m. CST

    fix! not one terminator goes after mohammed?

    by Castiel

    what would jebus do?

  • May 27, 2009, 11:06 p.m. CST


    by ebonic_plague

    Totally fair points, and if all the posts were as well considered and thoughtful as yours, I'd actually feel bad for being so sarcastically condescending. I actually agree that Christianity generally gets a bad rap for what are essentially problems of the human condition, and that there is an enlightened way to debate these questions. However, an AICN contest talkback about sending murderous robots back through time to right wrongs is a complete waste of energy for trying to engage people in such a debate. This place is a lame joke, as is evidenced by the pseudo-intellectualism of these winning entries and 90% of the subsequent talkback. Nobody wants to debate anything, most just want to complain that people aren't bashing Islam enough. Or just want to spew hate, like that douchebag who wants to re-murder Lennon. It's a waste of bandwidth, and only worth condescending scorn. I'd love to be proved wrong about this, but after 10 years on this site, it only gets worse. So, when in Rome... BTW, nice name. Hopefully this reply provides that little bit of thoughtfulness you were looking for. Peace.

  • May 28, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST

    Anti-Semitic & Anti-Christian -Brilliant!!

    by George Newman

  • May 28, 2009, 12:21 a.m. CST

    Is everything tasteless fair game?

    by George Newman

  • May 28, 2009, 12:54 a.m. CST


    by JabbaTheMutt

    I love how all you frakkin' boot-lickers bitch about how lame it is that this talkback was co-opted by Christians, Jews, Muslims and global warming nut jobs...<p> ...yet you add NOTHING about the ACTUAL topic. My guess is that you limp sacks don't know enough about history to comment on the first steam engine...The Library at Alexandria...Tesla's brilliance. Someone above hit the nail with his comment about our touchy-feely school system..."If you play...YOU WIN! Cuz gosh darn tried you best."<p> And if you "tried your best" in the ancient ended up face down in the dirt...sucking your pathetic final breath through the puddle of blood... leaking out the gaping wound in your jugular.<p> So how about a discussion about the ideas presented. I'll start...<p> The first steam engine was built on the grounds of the library. People came from throughout the known world...not just to read...but to WORK with the greatest minds on earth.<p> Imagine how fast tech would have progressed with steam. It took us less than 20 years after the advent of steam to be right in the middle of the industrial revolution. Which eventually led to the computer you are using.<p> How would the world have been different if the mysticism which created ALL religions...going back to caveman existence...was stopped by the cold tech that is obviously warping people into bitter, anti-everything zealots?<p> Would tech have stopped religion or enhanced it...ala muslim extremism? But could tech have stopped it all together? Now discuss...<p> Either way, I liked the Alexandria guy's point about tech destroying us 1000 years ago and making a utopia. Because anyone that doesn't see SOME kind of Judgment Day coming to life near you...just in NOT paying attention...<p> JABBA OUT!!

  • May 28, 2009, 12:58 a.m. CST


    by SunTzu77

    I would send a Terminator to go back in time and kill the first cow. That way, we wouldn't have all these cows farting across the world - causing global warming. <p>

  • May 28, 2009, 1:56 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    What is it with people on this site? You can't just say what you know, you have to be condescending & assume that other people don't know or don't understand the subjects. <p> The fact is, the winners aren't all worthy. He says how many of the entries were similar, yet most of the ones he's chosen ARE similar. <p> The way I see it, if you've got a bunch of entries about Jesus, pick the best one, then move on to something else. Something original.

  • May 28, 2009, 2:10 a.m. CST




  • May 28, 2009, 2:10 a.m. CST

    By the way..

    by The Dark Shite

    & the Alexandria guy's entry was wrong. I don't care what it may say on Wiki or some other site. Historians don't believe the fire set us back by 2,000 yrs. I should know, I am one. <p> It simply isn't true. In very basic terms, the reality is, most of the greatest philosophers/mathemeticians of the time were murdered or exiled as heretics. <p> Subsequesntly, the same thing happened to other societies, as churches took control, squashing free thought & persecting those who dared to suggest that things may have a scientific explanation. This was known as "The Dark Ages". I'm sure you've heard of it. <p> The "Steam Engine" you refer to was actually one of the few things that people did know about. It was considered nothing more than a toy at the time & remained so until Savery had the brains to realise how it could be used.<p> Oh & his entry was 7 sentences not 6 or less. If entries are gonna be discarded on the basis that they didn't include a mailing address (something which could easily be rectified upon receipt of a winner's email), then surely the number of sentences should be equally important to the rules.

  • May 28, 2009, 2:15 a.m. CST


    by damagedinc

    Good points. It shouldn't be expected that everyone agrees on everything, but I do get irked when I go to movie site and things get nasty about religion. It happens with movies that add nothing to the conversation. If someone cracked out a talkback on Bergman, it would be totally appropriate because his doubt was thoughtful, complicated, and reluctant. Even if you don't agree with it you can admire his contribution. I like film because it's a cultural meeting ground but the conversation doesn't have to get nasty. I will never accept the clever skeptic/dummy Christian model because it feeds on stereotypes. And a bunch of the "enlightened" AICN crowd feeds into this and treats anyone with any religious conviction as yokels. Thanks E_P.

  • May 28, 2009, 2:34 a.m. CST

    NOW we're talkin'....

    by JabbaTheMutt

    Shite,<p> Historians are basing their theory on flawed data. No one knows what burned in the fire. As with the steam engine (I'll get back to that)...there could have been a single thing which burned...a single paper...which could have changed the course of history. The fact is...there was just TOO much information to process.<p> By sending the Terminator solve the issue of data collation. He could have pointed out the important info and protected well as the heretics and mathmeticians. <p> He also could have pointed to the 'toy' engine and told them they could make it a thousand times bigger. In case you haven't thought of it...there was information on metalworking alone...which is ahead of what WE claim to know.<p> Scientists have NO clue how many helmets in Helenic times were made. ZERO idea of how they purified the metal. Couple that with engines...maybe we have cyborgs today.<p> There could have been a million things to enlighten or bring the tech at Alexandria...which is why having a TERMINATOR would be a big help.<p> And SUBSEQUENTLY, maybe science and enlightenment take over and the Dark Ages which I've never heard of...never happen...because people are too busy using their Eyepods and get crushed by the church.<p> Knowledge is power...but without a way to SEND that's useless. A Terminator may be able to help that<p> Don't get so lost in history that you forget about the fact that there is a TERMINATOR there to fill in the blanks.<p> Let's keep in mind that he also said that Judgment Day would be around 1000...thus...I have zero clue how the...what do you call it...'Dark Ages' fit in...never happened...because of the Terminator...just sayin'<p> You wanna throw down about history and time travel....IT'S ON DARK SHITE!!

  • May 28, 2009, 2:36 a.m. CST

    The Dark Shite

    by damagedinc

    I'm not going to say thy medieval thought measures up to 21st century scientific rigor, but the medieval philosophers were lovers of the sciences. Theology could only be studied after the natural sciences, rhetoric, grammar, and philosophy were mastered. Medieval writers were deeply steeped in the natural world. I would never say that people with alternative views weren't suppressed, many obviously were but they weren't normally for scientific reasons. Galileo is the big exception. I think that the biggest science/religion clash belongs to the late 19th early 20th century Modernist crisis because it spawned Christian Fundmentalism. The middle ages gets reppropriated and reevaluated during the Enlightenment from a position of antagonism, and takes on an ever increasingly symbolic position as religion is viewed as hostile to the sciences. In so many cases, it functions more as a straw man than anything else.

  • May 28, 2009, 2:37 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    Basically, people won because they either A. mentioned killing Jesus..<p> Or B. Made stuff up about the fire at the library of Alexandria & used more than the allowed number of sentences, but got a pass anyway. Great. As I said, my entry was a joke & wouldn't have won, but I think a bit of consistency in judging would have been fair.<p> For those of you talking about the Library in Alexandria, it was burned by Julius Caesar 48 B.C. <p> It was still around however until the sacking of Alexandria in 642 A.D. so yes Jabbathemutt, some of us do know about it. Seems you don't. <p>

  • May 28, 2009, 2:38 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    I just get pissed off with the condescending attutudes here sometimes. Like, "I'm a genuis, you're all assholes, blah blah fuckin' blah."

  • May 28, 2009, 2:48 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    I didn't see your post (too busy bitching & whining he he).<p> I get your point. Of course, those involved in the enlightenment would have been massively antagonistic towards the middle ages. <p> It is true however, that in many societies scientists etc were murdered for even daring to question. You can even go as far back as Socrates, who was killed for his views. <p> I don't believe that religion being hostile to science is a straw man. I feel that with Christianity, it certainly did suppress both free thinking & free speech. <p> Not just in the middle ages either. It can be seen in everything from the Spanish inquisiton, to the witch hunts. <p> Ironically (by today's image of Muslims as backwards & medievel), it was the Muslim world which embraced science & ultimately kick-started the enlightenment in Europe. Even then, certain elements of the church did their best to supress it. Not that I wanna get into a religious argument.

  • May 28, 2009, 2:56 a.m. CST

    Yeah Jabba..

    by The Dark Shite

    Nobody knows what was burned. Therefore it possibly wouldn't make an difference. Maybe the only thing of importance that was lost in the fire was the ingredients for the Mcflurry. Who knows? <p> It is known however, that a lot of knowledge was kept, simply by virtue of the academics themselves & those who studied their works NOT perishing in the fire. The library was around for centuries later & even then it mainly served as any library does-a collection of works & theories, rather than a source of them. Most of the great minds who flocked there, did so to study, not to impart information. In that sense, pretty much everything there would have been remembered by somebody.

  • May 28, 2009, 3 a.m. CST

    Hitler & Jesus

    by Liquid Meddle

    WAY too cliche. Think harder. And I don't see Christian suicide-bombers, so whether you believe they're doing damage to the world by "believing" a certain way, these people aren't out causing NEW holy wars and mass murder. Get a grip. Terminators should be sent back in time to "learn" like Arnold did in T2, and eventually become intellectual, knowledgable gods in our present day. They would have so much wisdom!

  • May 28, 2009, 3:10 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    All I'm saying is, if you're gonna be strict on rules like not including a mail address, you should also be strict on the number of sentences exceeding the allowed amount. 7 sentences isn't 6 or less. That puts a lot of entrees at an unfair disadvantage.<p> It might also help if the entry didn't require mentioning Jesus or is talking about something that actually happened, rather than something that you think sounds clever, but actually isn't true. <p>

  • May 28, 2009, 4:14 a.m. CST

    t4 was wonderful

    by brightlights

    I loved every second of this movie. Did anyone notice the guns and roses in the first scene with john connor?

  • Course lets just ignore our own nature as a predator species and find ways to blame a guy who simply asked us to love one another as obviously anyone who says to do that will automatically create a genocidal religious movement... Me thinks some people need to study history instead of getting the pre baked revisionist pablum from the internet and the likes of Hitchens. As a student of I can safely say our history was and wouldve been far more violent without christianity.

  • May 28, 2009, 6:35 a.m. CST

    Time to squash these same ole BS anti-Christian remarks...

    by SunTzu77

    From one of the top historians in the U.S. <p> The Inquisition <p> The Crusades <p> The Kingdom of Heaven (film) <p> The Galileo Controversy <p> <p> It is commonly believed that the Catholic Church persecuted Galileo for abandoning the geocentric (earth-at-the-center) view of the solar system for the heliocentric (sun-at-the-center) view. The Galileo case, for many anti-Catholics, is thought to prove that the Church abhors science, refuses to abandon outdated teachings, and is not infallible. For Catholics, the episode is often an embarrassment. It shouldn’t be. <p> Anti-scientific? <p> The Church is not anti-scientific. It has supported scientific endeavors for centuries. During Galileo’s time, the Jesuits had a highly respected group of astronomers and scientists in Rome. In addition, many notable scientists received encouragement and funding from the Church and from individual Church officials. Many of the scientific advances during this period were made either by clerics or as a result of Church funding. <p> Nicolaus Copernicus dedicated his most famous work, On the Revolution of the Celestial Orbs, in which he gave an excellent account of heliocentricity, to Pope Paul III. Copernicus entrusted this work to Andreas Osiander, a Lutheran clergyman who knew that Protestant reaction to it would be negative, since Martin Luther seemed to have condemned the new theory, and, as a result, the book would be condemned. Osiander wrote a preface to the book, in which heliocentrism was presented only as a theory that would account for the movements of the planets more simply than geocentrism did—something Copernicus did not intend. <p> Ten years prior to Galileo, Johannes Kepler published a heliocentric work that expanded on Copernicus’ work. As a result, Kepler also found opposition among his fellow Protestants for his heliocentric views and found a welcome reception among some Jesuits who were known for their scientific achievements. <p> Clinging to Tradition? <p> Anti-Catholics often cite the Galileo case as an example of the Church refusing to abandon outdated or incorrect teaching, and clinging to a "tradition." They fail to realize that the judges who presided over Galileo’s case were not the only people who held to a geocentric view of the universe. It was the received view among scientists at the time. <p> Centuries earlier, Aristotle had refuted heliocentricity, and by Galileo’s time, nearly every major thinker subscribed to a geocentric view. Copernicus refrained from publishing his heliocentric theory for some time, not out of fear of censure from the Church, but out of fear of ridicule from his colleagues. <p> Many people wrongly believe Galileo proved heliocentricity. He could not answer the strongest argument against it, which had been made nearly two thousand years earlier by Aristotle: If heliocentrism were true, then there would be observable parallax shifts in the stars’ positions as the earth moved in its orbit around the sun. However, given the technology of Galileo’s time, no such shifts in their positions could be observed. It would require more sensitive measuring equipment than was available in Galileo’s day to document the existence of these shifts, given the stars’ great distance. Until then, the available evidence suggested that the stars were fixed in their positions relative to the earth, and, thus, that the earth and the stars were not moving in space—only the sun, moon, and planets were. <p> Thus Galileo did not prove the theory by the Aristotelian standards of science in his day. In his Letter to the Grand Duchess Christina and other documents, Galileo claimed that the Copernican theory had the "sensible demonstrations" needed according to Aristotelian science, but most knew that such demonstrations were not yet forthcoming. Most astronomers in that day were not convinced of the great distance of the stars that the Copernican theory required to account for the absence of observable parallax shifts. This is one of the main reasons why the respected astronomer Tycho Brahe refused to adopt Copernicus fully. <p> Galileo could have safely proposed heliocentricity as a theory or a method to more simply account for the planets’ motions. His problem arose when he stopped proposing it as a scientific theory and began proclaiming it as truth, though there was no conclusive proof of it at the time. Even so, Galileo would not have been in so much trouble if he had chosen to stay within the realm of science and out of the realm of theology. But, despite his friends’ warnings, he insisted on moving the debate onto theological grounds. <p> In 1614, Galileo felt compelled to answer the charge that this "new science" was contrary to certain Scripture passages. His opponents pointed to Bible passages with statements like, "And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed . . ." (Josh. 10:13). This is not an isolated occurrence. Psalms 93 and 104 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 also speak of celestial motion and terrestrial stability. A literalistic reading of these passages would have to be abandoned if the heliocentric theory were adopted. Yet this should not have posed a problem. As Augustine put it, "One does not read in the Gospel that the Lord said: ‘I will send you the Paraclete who will teach you about the course of the sun and moon.’ For he willed to make them Christians, not mathematicians." Following Augustine’s example, Galileo urged caution in not interpreting these biblical statements too literally. <p> Unfortunately, throughout Church history there have been those who insist on reading the Bible in a more literal sense than it was intended. They fail to appreciate, for example, instances in which Scripture uses what is called "phenomenological" language—that is, the language of appearances. Just as we today speak of the sun rising and setting to cause day and night, rather than the earth turning, so did the ancients. From an earthbound perspective, the sun does appear to rise and appear to set, and the earth appears to be immobile. When we describe these things according to their appearances, we are using phenomenological language. <p> The phenomenological language concerning the motion of the heavens and the non-motion of the earth is obvious to us today, but was less so in previous centuries. Scripture scholars of the past were willing to consider whether particular statements were to be taken literally or phenomenologically, but they did not like being told by a non-Scripture scholar, such as Galileo, that the words of the sacred page must be taken in a particular sense. <p> During this period, personal interpretation of Scripture was a sensitive subject. In the early 1600s, the Church had just been through the Reformation experience, and one of the chief quarrels with Protestants was over individual interpretation of the Bible. <p> Theologians were not prepared to entertain the heliocentric theory based on a layman’s interpretation. Yet Galileo insisted on moving the debate into a theological realm. There is little question that if Galileo had kept the discussion within the accepted boundaries of astronomy (i.e., predicting planetary motions) and had not claimed physical truth for the heliocentric theory, the issue would not have escalated to the point it did. After all, he had not proved the new theory beyond reasonable doubt. <p> Galileo "Confronts" Rome <p> Galileo came to Rome to see Pope Paul V (1605-1621). The pope, weary of controversy, turned the matter over to the Holy Office, which issued a condemnation of Galileo’s theory in 1616. Things returned to relative quiet for a time, until Galileo forced another showdown. <p> At Galileo’s request, Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, a Jesuit—one of the most important Catholic theologians of the day—issued a certificate that, although it forbade Galileo to hold or defend the heliocentric theory, did not prevent him from conjecturing it. When Galileo met with the new pope, Urban VIII, in 1623, he received permission from his longtime friend to write a work on heliocentrism, but the new pontiff cautioned him not to advocate the new position, only to present arguments for and against it. When Galileo wrote the Dialogue on the Two World Systems, he used an argument the pope had offered, and placed it in the mouth of his character Simplicio. Galileo, perhaps inadvertently, made fun of the pope, a result that could only have disastrous consequences. Urban felt mocked and could not believe how his friend could disgrace him publicly. Galileo had mocked the very person he needed as a benefactor. He also alienated his long-time supporters, the Jesuits, with attacks on one of their astronomers. The result was the infamous trial, which is still heralded as the final separation of science and religion. <p> Tortured for His Beliefs? <p> In the end, Galileo recanted his heliocentric teachings, but it was not—as is commonly supposed—under torture nor after a harsh imprison- ment. Galileo was, in fact, treated surprisingly well. <p> As historian Giorgio de Santillana, who is not overly fond of the Catholic Church, noted, "We must, if anything, admire the cautiousness and legal scruples of the Roman authorities." Galileo was offered every convenience possible to make his imprisonment in his home bearable. <p> Galileo’s friend Nicolini, Tuscan ambassador to the Vatican, sent regular reports to the court regarding affairs in Rome. Many of his letters dealt with the ongoing controversy surrounding Galileo. <p> Nicolini revealed the circumstances surrounding Galileo’s "imprisonment" when he reported to the Tuscan king: "The pope told me that he had shown Galileo a favor never accorded to another" (letter dated Feb. 13, 1633); " . . . he has a servant and every convenience" (letter, April 16); and "[i]n regard to the person of Galileo, he ought to be imprisoned for some time because he disobeyed the orders of 1616, but the pope says that after the publication of the sentence he will consider with me as to what can be done to afflict him as little as possible" (letter, June 18). <p> Had Galileo been tortured, Nicolini would have reported it to his king. While instruments of torture may have been present during Galileo’s recantation (this was the custom of the legal system in Europe at that time), they definitely were not used. <p> The records demonstrate that Galileo could not be tortured because of regulations laid down in The Directory for Inquisitors (Nicholas Eymeric, 1595). This was the official guide of the Holy Office, the Church office charged with dealing with such matters, and was followed to the letter. <p> As noted scientist and philosopher Alfred North Whitehead remarked, in an age that saw a large number of "witches" subjected to torture and execution by Protestants in New England, "the worst that happened to the men of science was that Galileo suffered an honorable detention and a mild reproof." Even so, the Catholic Church today acknowledges that Galileo’s condemnation was wrong. The Vatican has even issued two stamps of Galileo as an expression of regret for his mistreatment. <p> Infallibility <p> Although three of the ten cardinals who judged Galileo refused to sign the verdict, his works were eventually condemned. Anti-Catholics often assert that his conviction and later rehabilitation somehow disproves the doctrine of papal infallibility, but this is not the case, for the pope never tried to make an infallible ruling concerning Galileo’s views. <p> The Church has never claimed ordinary tribunals, such as the one that judged Galileo, to be infallible. Church tribunals have disciplinary and juridical authority only; neither they nor their decisions are infallible. <p> No ecumenical council met concerning Galileo, and the pope was not at the center of the discussions, which were handled by the Holy Office. When the Holy Office finished its work, Urban VIII ratified its verdict, but did not attempt to engage infallibility. <p> Three conditions must be met for a pope to exercise the charism of infallibility: (1) he must speak in his official capacity as the successor of Peter; (2) he must speak on a matter of faith or morals; and (3) he must solemnly define the doctrine as one that must be held by all the faithful. <p> In Galileo’s case, the second and third conditions were not present, and possibly not even the first. Catholic theology has never claimed that a mere papal ratification of a tribunal decree is an exercise of infallibility. It is a straw man argument to represent the Catholic Church as having infallibly defined a scientific theory that turned out to be false. The strongest claim that can be made is that the Church of Galileo’s day issued a non-infallible disciplinary ruling concerning a scientist who was advocating a new and still-unproved theory and demanding that the Church change its understanding of Scripture to fit his. <p> It is a good thing that the Church did not rush to embrace Galileo’s views, because it turned out that his ideas were not entirely correct, either. Galileo believed that the sun was not just the fixed center of the solar system but the fixed center of the universe. We now know that the sun is not the center of the universe and that it does move—it simply orbits the center of the galaxy rather than the earth. <p> As more recent science has shown, both Galileo and his opponents were partly right and partly wrong. Galileo was right in asserting the mobility of the earth and wrong in asserting the immobility of the sun. His opponents were right in asserting the mobility of the sun and wrong in asserting the immobility of the earth. <p> Had the Catholic Church rushed to endorse Galileo’s views—and there were many in the Church who were quite favorable to them—the Church would have embraced what modern science has disproved.

  • May 28, 2009, 6:46 a.m. CST

    Enough with painting every Muslim with the same brush:

    by seppukudkurosawa

    Islamic extremist is to Islam what KKK is to Christianity.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:36 a.m. CST

    Laughing - give the anti materialist FREE STUFF

    by JackRabbitSlim

    "Oh I do dislike the way this society has become so materialistic - so instead of volunteering at Red Cross, I'm going to enter a contest to win FREE STUFF!!!"

  • May 28, 2009, 10:54 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    1. If you were refering to me, I didn't make any "anti-christian" remarks in my historical thing. I just corrected something somebody said. The truth is, I don't give a fuck about Christianity, Islam, Atheism or anything else for that matter. I believe in pie & pie only.<p> 2. For such a big post, it said absolutely nothing. You must have been taking lessons from Micheal Moore, i.e put in the stuff that suits your point of view, leave out the stuff that doesn't. Anyone can do that.<p> Also, you didn't name the guy you quoted & the quotes all came from a single source. I haven't clicked it, just read your post ( it's almost 1am), but I wouldn't anyway, because all publications have their own political/religious stance. That's why numerous sources are required. <p> Ps, this is a thread about a competetion.

  • May 28, 2009, 12:05 p.m. CST


    by Liquid Meddle

    Are just harlmess, back-water hicks. They hardly give Christianity a "black eye." They're a joke. Islamic Extremism simply cannot be compared. You make me laugh. Islamism is perhaps the fastest growing religion and it is indeed the most dangerous. We may experience the darkside of this religion here in the U.S. in the next decade or so. Hopefully by that time Skynet will launch the nukes and begin its global dominance and enslavement of humanity.

  • May 28, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST


    by diseptikon

    Can we at least all agree that Uwe Boll must be terminated?

  • May 28, 2009, 7:16 p.m. CST

    Liquid Meddle..

    by The Dark Shite

    I wouldn't say Islam was any more dangerous than any other powerful religion. Yeah, we've seen them do it, but Christian fundamentalists would do the same if they had to. It's fundamentalism that's the problem. <p> Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous. Because it essentially means "This way is right, all others are wrong." No room for discussion or the possibility of alternatives, no acceptance of opposing views or a differing way of life. That's no different to Muslim extremists.<p> I've seen fundamentalist Christians (in the U.S especially), who scare the crap out of me. You said we don't see Christian suicide bombers. What about those nutjobs who bomb abortion clinics? It's the same kind of thing. They're all fucking insane. <p>

  • May 28, 2009, 8:29 p.m. CST


    by Liquid Meddle

    Not taking the side of fundamentalist Christians. But those things that've happened and continue so are few and far between. Both sides definitely have problems. But I believe the other is more a threat in this modern age.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:30 p.m. CST


    by Liquid Meddle

    I'm not suggesting termination. Just thought the KKK/Islamic Exremist comparison was like apples and oranges.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST

    I'm glad your honest...

    by SunTzu77

    "I don't give a fuck about Christianity, Islam, Atheism or anything else for that matter. I believe in pie & pie only." <p> But, your comments do show you to be incredibly nescient about *history*. The historian is Thomas F. Madden... leading expert on the Crusades...Inquisition...etc. He was/is the chair of History at Saint Louis University. He appears in the The New York Times, Washington Post, The History Channel, etc. Basically, educating the ignorant... such as yourself. <p> Here go to your source of everything Christian and read up. <p>

  • May 28, 2009, 8:35 p.m. CST

    See, that's the problem though..

    by The Dark Shite

    They believe our societies/way of life is the biggest threat to them.<p> I agree that the KKK comparison isn't the best. But I think it would be fair to say Islamic fundamentalism=Christian fundamentalism. It's the same shit, just differing circumstances. <p> You could easily exchange Islam for Christianity..say we're in Muslim countries, they're the Christians. The same stuff would still be happening.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:39 p.m. CST

    Another link...

    by SunTzu77 <p> Read... learn... and you might not be hebetudinous anymore.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:41 p.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    Ignorance is quoting one person's views. Writing an unbalanced argument that only serves to suit your opinion.<p> I've never read wikipedia dipshit. Nor do I go to right wing christian websites without being gven a link to the opposing view.<p> I told you, I wasn't involved in your religious argument. I don't care. I simply talked about the Alexendria library & the dark ages. <p> The fact that your Christianity disables you from considering the possibility of any opposing view, is quite disturbing. <p> "The historian is Thomas F. Madden".."the chair of History at Saint Louis University". whoop de doo. I'll mention that next time I'm back in Oxford. Maybe my old teachers will get a laugh out of it.

  • May 28, 2009, 8:43 p.m. CST

    & if that's the saint Louis I'm thinking of..

    by The Dark Shite

    Well, that's religious nutjob central right there! <p> There are places around that area, where MontyPython's Life of Brian is still banned!

  • May 28, 2009, 8:52 p.m. CST

    & SunTzu77

    by The Dark Shite

    The point is, you still failed to show anything. Take your galileo stuff. Esseentially it said "Well, yeah he was killed but not everybody was against him. He wasn't tortured or badly treated before he was executed & he was wrong, so maybe it was a good thing he was murdered by the church."<p> What the fuck?<p> I'm not here to demonise the church, nor would I demonise atheists etc. I don't take sides. But I will stand up for history & the truth is that the church is responsible for some of the the most brutal acts in history. <p> Does that make Christianity bad? No. I'm sure there are many kind, wonderful Christians. Likewise it doesn't make it perfect either. There have been bad people in the church & there will continue to be so. <p> That's a fact. The problem is, you people don't wanna admit any truths at all. <p> Take the old testament. Christians are raised to believe it was written by Moses. That's what I was taught as a kid, that's what it says in my bible. Yet it talks of his death. Moses can't write about the day he died.He's dead. <p> So, what's the logical explanation? It was written by other people. <p> That's fine. It doesn't mean Moses was a myth. It could easily mean Moses told the stories & they were written by somebody else. But it does mean the Bible tells a lie. The church tells a lie. I've mentioned that to Christians & they get so angry & defensive. Like you are now.<p> Why does your church have to be so damned perfect, when the evidence points to it actually being quite human. Not holy, just human. Humans make mistakes.

  • May 28, 2009, 9:01 p.m. CST

    I meant the first 5 books of the O.T

    by The Dark Shite

    Supposedly written by Moses. Says so in the bible in plain black & white. How can he write about his own death? He couldn't. <p> On the subject of the Crusades, when the Muslims took Jerusalem, they left everybody alive & allowed them to practice their faiths. When Richard the Lionheart took it, he had the Muslims lined up & beheaded, men women, children, everyone. That's an historical fact. <p> What would your excuse for that be? "Well, their heads were full of wrong ideas which may have affected science badly, so it's a good thing they were killed. & they weren't tortured before they had their heads chopped off..and..and..a minority of 3 against 7 voted to spare their lives" etc etc. None of that shit actually shows anything. You can dress up a bad thing, but ultimately it's the same act.<p>

  • May 28, 2009, 9:11 p.m. CST

    I googled Madden..

    by The Dark Shite

    He isn't the leading expert in anything. Probably why I had to google him in the first place. <p> Not only are there far more respected people in his field, but I was even taught by some of them. Ignorant my arse! Ignorance is believing what you want to believe & ignoring the truth, because it paints your kind in a bad light.<p> & if I'm posting a lot, it's because I repeatedly told you, I'm NOT here to talk religion. I also just quit smoking, so you don't wanna bother me right now. <p> I repeat,I'm not one of the anti-christians on here. I'm just an Historian. Your posts proved nothing, but the willingness of certain bigots to corrupt history for their own ends.

  • May 28, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST

    That KKK/Islamist Fundamentalist thing is a quote from

    by seppukudkurosawa

    The West Wing, but I think it stands. The two may be on different scales (though one glance at might change your mind on that one), but the KKK cites Christianity as their doctrine for spreading violence and hatred, despite the fact that nowhere in the Christian faith is this condoned. The same goes for Islam. To quote Muhammad Ali: "Islam is a religion of peace. Islam does not promote terrorism or the killing of people."<p> I think you'll find the similarities between the two religions far outweigh the differences. This hate towards a so-called enemy, rather than an attempt to empathise with them, is pretty indicative of what's become of your modern Christian. If I had religious notions, you'd be damned certain I'd be wanting to understand more religions than just the one I'd been lumbered with.

  • May 28, 2009, 9:29 p.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    I've never seen the West Wing. I don't think it's ever been shown here. But that's exactly what I was trying to say about fundamentalism of any kind.<p> At least in my garbled, suffering from extreme nicotine withdrawals way.

  • May 28, 2009, 9:55 p.m. CST

    by Liquid Meddle

    I'm staying out of the historical rhetoric. But you're not seeing Christians spearheading the kind of violence that Muslims have here or anywhere else, and that was my point. I don't care about the past. I'm speaking of modern age brutality. I don't see "Christian Extremist" dominating news headlines. So I don't understand why it garners the same hatred. Christianity is only the enemy of the unintelligent.

  • May 28, 2009, 10:01 p.m. CST

    Well if you weren't arguing

    by seppukudkurosawa

    you'd be eating, so maybe it isn't such a bad thing that this thread came to...this.<p> I've been reading a couple Umberto Eco books lately and I'm kind of on a Middle Ages kick, so it was nice to read your comments as always. Heh, that dude who said, "your comments do show you to be incredibly nescient about *history*" obviously hasn't read that Terrence Malick/Gawain & The Green Giant talkback!

  • May 28, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Unm Galileo wasn't murdered.

    by Rufferto

  • May 28, 2009, 10:07 p.m. CST

    The Mona Lisa..

    by Liquid Meddle

    Was actually a Terminatrix. Don't ask me how I know.

  • May 28, 2009, 10:29 p.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    He was murdered. I think I accidentally went along with somebody else's post that he was executed (I'm gpoing crazy through lack of nicotine & this thread isn't helping me one bit). But he was murdered. <p> Religious history isn't really my field of expertise, but as I recall, hye was put on trial & the church did everything they could to execute him (very christian thing to do), but he managed to prove himself not guilty. Despite being innocent, he vanished, supposedly under house arrest, where he was left to rot indoors until he died, as a warning to anyone who chose to think outside the box.<p> As he was innocent of any crime, I'd call that murder.

  • May 28, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST

    Where are your sources to cite that?

    by Rufferto

    Since you were so tough on that other guy who had ones you refused to even acknowledge. Show me House arrest equals murder. Show me glaucoma, old age, hernia and insomnia are murder or that someone went and actually killed him and I'll believe you. I'm not defending the ruling or saying it was right and neither was Sun Tzu if you read carefully. If you feel it constituted murder, that's what you feel that's fine but don't tell me that I should cite it's fact based on your personal feelings. Also, no offense, but you are not coming across as being as neutral as you claim to be.

  • May 29, 2009, 2:52 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    I don't need sources. Because I'm not trying to convince people of anything. I'm not bothered about it. If I was, I'd provide quotes from opposing sides, not just one sided stuff that was pro my point of view. But I don't give a flying fuck. You see, what happened was this..<p> Other people were Anti-Christian, The Christians came out to argue with them. I mentioned the dark ages on a completely unrelated subject, by which time the Anti-Christian guys had gone, leaving me open to bullshit accusations.<p> The murder thing is my opinion, hence the words "I'D call that murder." I would. <p> & I am as neutral as I say. Otherwise I'd be making as many efforts to look for quotes etc. I don't like being accused of things however & I certainly don't like people who go into things unwilling to even entertain the notion that the other person may be right. In such a scenario, I won't hide the fact that I'm pissed off. Perhaps that leads to confusion as to my neutrality/bias. <p> I'm truly not on either side. I was however, once snarled at as a child, by a teacher at Sunday School. I asked "If God made the universe, who made God?" I find that to be a perfectly valid question from a 10 yr old with a healthy thirst for knowledge. Much like the people here, he accused me of messing around, mocking his faith etc. Actually I wanted to know & he couldn't answer. <p> You see a Christian may wanna be good, but you're all just human. You snarl, you get angry, you can be bigoted & mean spirited etc. As can your church. That's all I was saying. & it's pathetic to look at all the accounts throughout history of the persectutions & barborous acts committed in the name of God & simply say "No, that didn't happen, because so & so said so". Bullshit. They happened. Learn from it, don't hide it.

  • May 29, 2009, 9:18 a.m. CST


    by The Dark Shite

    I'm no longer craving nicotine. I gave in (hangs head in shame).<p> Look, I've got nothing against Christians. I even said on another thread (maybe Angels & Demons?) that my friend is a devout Catholic. A VERY strict Catholic at that. I just didn't really wanna be dragged into a religious argument like that & I was pissed off. <p> I won't apologise for having my views. I think I tend to have a fairly un-biased point of view. In the sense that I believe in God,but I'm not a fan of organised religion as such. Having said that, I'm also not against it. I just think sometimes there's a middle ground that neither group is willing to consider. <p> Also, Merrick, if you read this, I skipped the bit where you said you had some kind of a problem in your personal life. In those circumstances, me being annoyed at a guy using 7 sentences instead of one isn't really important. <p> Phew! Nicotine!

  • May 29, 2009, 9:19 a.m. CST

    Instead of six, not one.

    by The Dark Shite

    Get it together you tobacco addicted fucker.