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Mr. Beaks Finds Nothing Horribly Wrong With TERMINATOR SALVATION!!!

This review is fucking festooned with spoilers.

The big copout with time travel narratives is that you can always explain away the most horrible, unthinkable events with two words: "alternative timeline". No matter what occurs in this timeline, you can always say that there still exists a version of reality in which everything shakes out the way it's supposed to - e.g., while you feel just terrible for the Vulcans who went boom in the Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman STAR TREK timeline, you can at least take comfort in the fact that the planet's still whirling in the official, sanctioned-by-Roddenberry timeline. Yay. And yawn. Basically, the only way to introduce any element of jeopardy into time travel movies is to give us a protagonist who hails from the timeline that served as our way into the universe. That's why the BACK TO THE FUTURE sequels work so well: we're always with the same Marty McFly that we started with. And we desperately want him to get back to the 1985 where Jennifer and that Toyota Pickup are waiting for him. In lieu of making any real-world sense (which is a given because time travel is utterly fucking impossible*), a palpable emotional connection to the characters goes a very long way. There is an emotional connection in TERMINATOR SALVATION, but, oddly enough, it's not John Connor. At least, it's not for me. Up until now, the only portrayal of John Connor that's worked dramatically came courtesy of Michael Edwards, who only had to look the part of a capable badass at the opening of TERMINATOR 2. The other two JCs (Edward Furlong and Nick Stahl) have been whiney and eminently strangle-worthy. Connor's best kept as a far-off-in-the-future idea. The real hero of THE TERMINATOR series is Kyle Reese. This is because Reese eternally gets the shit end of the stick: he spends his first few decades ducking Skynet's murderous contraptions, and then gets sent back in time to deposit Connor in Connor. His reward for co-authoring the kid who'll give humanity a fighting chance against the machines? Death. Look, I understand John Connor does most of the heavy lifting once things go south for mankind, but, frankly, that's what he gets for being such an insufferable brat for a good deal of his pre-apocalypse existence. Reese is born to the wasteland. He knows one night of happiness in his entire life. He owns the rooting interest in this series. While Cameron pulled off a neat trick by having Arnold Schwarzenegger fill the hero void left by Michael Biehn in the second film, this unfortunately cemented Arnie's Cyborg Shane as the face of the franchise - especially since the majority of viewers in 1991 probably hadn't absorbed THE TERMINATOR as anything other than a pop cultural touchstone (shades, leather coat, "I'll be back", etc.). Suddenly, Reese was just some dude who barely merited a mention in JUDGMENT DAY, while the woman he loved had transmogrified into a sinewy, chain-smoking harridan. By the third film (which is the beginning of the alternate timeline as far as I'm concerned, since every last trace of Skynet was plunged into molten steel at the end of T2), they'd both been shoved aside in favor of a borderline bonkers JC and an even quippier T-800. TERMINATOR 3: RISE OF THE MACHINES may not be as bad as its reputation (it's got one impressive action sequence and a chilling ending), but it did lower the storytelling standard set by the first two movies to the point where this is now just a run-of-the-mill franchise. Worse, it all but guaranteed that the third sequel would be spent exclusively in the dour company of post-apocalypse John Connor. Two problems with this: first, we can barely tolerate Connor as a human being; second, there's no jeopardy because there's no possible way he's going to get killed at this point of the narrative unless you resort to the alternative timeline cheat. Rather than do the least objectionable thing and attempt a Kyle Reese origin story (with added, if absolutely bunk peril in that Skynet somehow knows he's the daddy-to-be of the resistance), screenwriters John Brancato and Michael Ferris have, with TERMINATOR SALVATION, given us dual protagonists in glowering ol' John Connor (Christian Bale) and sorta-spared death row consignee Marcus Wright (Sam Worthington). Originally, these characters were to merge in a shocking way. Now, they literally bleed together in a treacly resolution that closes the film off as a standalone, "Whew, that was close!" narrative of no consequence. In other words, TERMINATOR SALVATION is a time travel movie situated at a point in the (alternative) chronology where nothing of real significance occurs. Threre's absolutely no reason to tell this story. And yet the film works to a significant enough degree because it embraces its inherent limitations without shortchanging the audience: the world is believable, the creature f/x are lovingly rendered (this is a fine swan song for the late, great Stan Winston), and there are two very effective action set pieces. Best of all, it manages to give us a believable Young Kyle Reese in Anton Yelchin. Welcome back, rooting interest! The major conflict in TERMINATOR SALVATION is supposed to arise from the wild-card presence of Marcus, who could be (spoiler: is) an unwitting pawn of Skynet. While he does everything to prove his worth to the resistance (once he's been outed as a machine - a character beat that falls flat because Marcus means nothing to us), we've all seen too many movies not to ponder the likelihood that he's unaware of his programming. Brancato and Ferris hope we'll take our eye off the ball long enough to get caught up in Connor's quest to rescue a captured Reese from Skynet HQ (he hasn't been executed yet because Skynet is evidently dumber than a Vic-20), but there's no cause for concern here - after all, a dead Reese would mean a non-existent Connor. We didn't come this far with the TERMINATOR franchise because it's a model of internal logic. No, we're still game for more of this nonsense because we've a childhood attachment to the universe created by Cameron; also, SALVATION offers us our first opportunity to hang out in the wasteland. Some may be disappointed that McG and his writers (including the uncredited Jonathan Nolan and Paul Haggis) only give us the prelude to the major man-versus-machine campaign. Whatever. Seeing as how this is a franchise relaunch, I didn't expect them to blow their wad in one fell thrust. (Honsetly, I think they'd be wise to avoid this period altogether, since there's no way they're ever going to outdo the versions of the war we imagined as kids.) This is probably the most negative "positive" review I've ever written, but I'm giving the movie a pass for four reasons: 1) The Harvester. This is a giant robot who scoots around on a hover-bike that doubles as a people collector. He also has two motorcycle buddies who drop off his shins for pursuin' purposes. This big fella made the twelve-year-old in me very happy. The scene in which he chases after Marcus, Reese and Star (a useless little girl played by the uni-monikered Jadagrace) is a proficiently executed action set piece that gets the blood pumping for a good eight minutes. This is stellar second-unit work from visual effects supervisor Charles Gibson. 2) Yelchin. Casting him as a young Michael Biehn seemed like a deal-breaker a year ago, but he's both believable as a warrior and sympathetic as the TERMINATOR universe's most tragic figure. It's just a shame they saddle him with the kid. 3) The climactic rescue mission may not be as expertly staged as the Harvester chase, but the appearance of the T-800 replete with 1984 Arnie skin accomplishes what it's supposed to. True, the cyborg does enough damage to Connor to kill him several times over, but it'd be folly to start nitpicking this late in the film. 4) Run time. The film is something like 108 minutes sans closing credits. Yes, it all feels a little rushed (save for Helena Bonham Carter's momentum-halting expository conversation with Marcus), but at least it never overstays its welcome. That's saying something in this era of summer tentpole bloat. While I didn't walk out of TERMINATOR SALVATION ready for a fifth installment in the franchise, it's not like I went in ready for a fourth. This isn't because I'm not a fan of THE TERMINATOR; it's actually because I'm a fan of THE TERMINATOR, and understand that the sequels (even JUDGMENT DAY) were made only to capitalize on our affection for Cameron's low-budget, B-movie triumph. And while I suppose it's possible that some upstart young director could one day conceive of an alternative timeline TERMINATOR that compares favorably to Cameron's original, I certainly wasn't expecting any such miracle from McG. Grading on the summer movie curve, TERMINATOR SALVATION just barely passes. You'll see much, much worse over the next few months. Faithfully submitted, Mr. Beaks

*Well, you could acknowledge the unending temporal wreckage that would ensue once you start hopping back and forth in time, but then you'd have to put on your thinking cap and make a brilliant film like Shane Carruth's PRIMER, and no one wants to do that!

Readers Talkback
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  • May 21, 2009, 9:16 p.m. CST

    McG called

    by jackshephard

    He is bringing you and endoskeleton for your birthday.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:16 p.m. CST

    McG called

    by jackshephard

    He is bringing you an endoskeleton for your birthday.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST

    This movie ROCKED - I read some reviews here

    by geeko2000

    I thought the worst. HUGE fan of the series and it kicks the hell out of T3 and come very CLOSE to T2 - IMO - LOVED IT! Going to go see it again!

  • May 21, 2009, 9:20 p.m. CST

    With something like G.I. Joe on the horizon....

    by jackshephard

    This is one of the only things I am actually looking forward to seeing. I hope I come out of the theater happy tomorrow, I already cut a hole in my popcorn bucket....

  • May 21, 2009, 9:25 p.m. CST

    nice review


    probably going to be my exact same stance once i see it, from all i've heard. <P>also, i never put 2 and 2 together before: JC= john connor and JC= james cameron. wonder if james projected quite a bit of himself into the mythological character? of course, JC also = jesus christ. so who knows.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:29 p.m. CST

    by blhotz

    Great review. I agree w/ almost everything. The movie spits in your face the entire time instead of sucking you in for "emotional entertainment". There were enough moments/scenes to make this movie worthwhile. But the writing overall was horrible. And the action was extremely below my expectations.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:30 p.m. CST

    I had a MCG at McDonalds today!

    by lockesbrokenleg

  • May 21, 2009, 9:31 p.m. CST

    Beaks thinks a genre film is passable, that means it sucked

    by IndustryKiller!

    I learned that all the way back with his review of the Butterfly Effect.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:32 p.m. CST

    Do your homework.

    by Viewer 3

    Time travel = very possible according to every known theory. Maybe not in a car going 88MPH or via some big lightning-machine, but Einstein would smack you upside the head for saying something like that.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:35 p.m. CST

    And I keep hearing praise for Yelchin BUT

    by IndustryKiller!

    and it's a big but since I havent seen the film yet, in the first film Beihn plays Reese borderline insane. Like he's completely lost it. He says he had to shovel the bodies of all the dead or something when he was a kid. It doesn't look like Yelchin is playing this, he seems almost precocious from the clips. He also looks NOTHING like Michael Beihn. Nothing.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Nothing horribly wrong...

    by CinExcite

    What praise!

  • May 21, 2009, 9:37 p.m. CST

    Not exactly a glowing endorsement..

    by The Dark Shite

    But it gives me more hope than Harry's review. I'm still gonna see it regardless. If I can give the shitfest that was T3 a chance, I can watch this one. <p> Ok, that "King Kong attacks an amputee & exposes his manboobs" animation in the corner is really starting to freak me out now.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:38 p.m. CST

    Yep, this series ended with T2

    by GeorgieBoy

    Just like the ALIEN franchise ended with ALIENS. James Cameron cannot be topped you greedy Hollywood morons! (You just know someone dreamed up a Titanic sequel too!)

  • May 21, 2009, 9:42 p.m. CST

    Festooned with spoilers indeed..

    by Buckethead808

    But I wasn't expecting spoiler for OTHER MOVIES, like, say Star Trek.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:42 p.m. CST

    this movie did not rock.

    by future help

    no soul. no heart. no tension. no story. no fun. no hope.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:44 p.m. CST

    I've read a far few reviews for this now

    by tolomey

    and I'm still looking forward to seeing it. I was a big fan of T2, but I feel that time has not been too kind on it (maybe I've just watched it too many times and I'm over familiar with it now), I do however still really like T1, mainly cos of the character of Kyle Reese. Bein was and is still a badass, who really should be in more movies.<br> I'm not expecting the second coming with this flick but it seems like some reviewers out there were.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:45 p.m. CST

    Maybe computers/machines don't know (spoilers)

    by CherryValance

    where babies come from. At this point in the story I mean. Maybe they don't know that in order to have a John Connor you need to have a Kyle Reese. So if not then why kill him if they can just use him for bait? Because once he was bait and John Connor was there, they did try to kill him right? That was some kind of poison gas he got out of the way of right? So maybe in the next movie someone sits down and gives a machine "the talk". Then they realize they can just go back and kill his mom.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    time travel is possible


    but perhaps it is only man's brain that can grasp it -even though it cannot fully solidify it. a computer like skynet would likely melt down thinking of all the alternates and variables and paradoxes, because they are infinite, and a computer would keep trying to solve an equation with no answer. one good thing about human brins is we know when to stop when it starts to hurt. we think of just a few of the doors time travel opens, we go 'ow' and we try it anyway or move on.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    To all the T3 haters

    by tolomey

    I agree, that movie really did suck, but do yourself a favour and google Terminator 3: The Coming Storm.<br> It's a fan edit of the movie (done to a professional standard) that eliminates all of the crap and campy stuff from T3 and turns it into a far more serious movie.<br> It's still not as good as T1 or T2, but it is a vast, vast improvement.<br> What's even better is that if you own the original T3 on dvd then it's not illegal to download the fan edit. Cool huh?

  • May 21, 2009, 9:52 p.m. CST

    Congrats on a truly creepy animation Harry!


    It's quite possibly the most disturbing thing I've seen all year. And I've watched Wolverine AND Terminator, so that's saying something.

  • May 21, 2009, 9:58 p.m. CST

    Nice to see you reminding everyone of Primer.

    by notspock2


  • May 21, 2009, 9:58 p.m. CST

    My favourite time travel idea...

    by veebeeyes

    is that you can go back in time, but you can't go back to a time before the time machine was invented. "Of course time travel is impossible, dumbass. If it were possible, then we'd be overrun with time travellers from the future." To which I'd then say, "You're a fucking idiot. How could we be visited by time travellers from the future when we haven't invented a time machine yet?"

  • May 21, 2009, 9:59 p.m. CST


    by BillyMayesHere

    ... Yikes. It's true... mindless action done very well. McG is a cool guy but he doesn't have it down yet.

  • May 21, 2009, 10 p.m. CST

    Good review but....

    by troccoli

    I'd hace to disagree about trace evidence of all Terminators being destroyed in T2. True, the lab is blown, liquid terminator is destroyed, the chip and arm from T1 are destroyed and what's left of Arnold in T2 goes in the magma as well. But if you recall, when fighting the liquid terminator in the steel mill, Arnold has his arm cut off in some kind of device, hence leaving an arm behind. Also, on the extras of the T3 dvd it explains how the research continued and it also has an amusing clip of why the t-800's look like Arnold. Check it out!

  • May 21, 2009, 10:03 p.m. CST

    JC also stands for...

    by JBouganim1

    Jean Claude

  • May 21, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    It's good

    by Turd Furgeson

    Saw it today, and I really liked it. Yelchin is really good playing Reese. I thoroughly enjoyed the double narrative and seperate/converging storylines..

  • May 21, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    As in...

    by JBouganim1

    Jean Claude Van Damme

  • May 21, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    This film had NO RESPECT to the 1st two.

    by Joker Gordon Levitt

    I place it right up there with Terminator 3-D t Universal Studios, and GI Joe. FUCK this movie in its FACE.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:04 p.m. CST

    Yelchin ain't good enough to wipe Michael Biehn's ass!

    by scriptgirl_nipples

    Seriously, I hope that fucking douche isn't as annoying as he was as Chekov!

  • May 21, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    Sorry for lashing out.

    by Joker Gordon Levitt

    My anger is undeniable!

  • May 21, 2009, 10:05 p.m. CST

    "Nothing Horribly Wrong"??? How about...

    by Behemoth

    ...the fact that the so-called "superior" machines HAVE Kyle Reese in their possession, know they have to kill him, and ... they don't kill him? How about freakin' John Connor BLOCKING A PUNCH FROM A SKELETAL TERMINATOR WITH HIS FOREARM THEN PUNCHING IT IN THE FACE??? How about the "superior" machines powering their creations with nuclear fuel that they just conveniently leave around? <p>Good lord, there are SO MANY things that are horribly wrong here. A pathetic attempt from McGriddle.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:06 p.m. CST

    Titanic sequel.

    by imagin78

    There was a sequel to Titanic. It was called Pearl Harbor. A story treatment for a movie based on the Hindenberg disaster was also sold right after Titanic. Thankfully, that never happened. Pearl Harbor was bad enough.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:06 p.m. CST

    BAH! It started with some douche on death row!

    by Joker Gordon Levitt

    This is not how you start a Terminator film!!!! If you liked it, then good for you. If you have any love for T1 and T2, then this will only betray that love.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:06 p.m. CST

    Meh this seems to be the consensus among "positive" reviews

    by D.Vader

    That its bad, but not *that* bad. Its bad, but thats ok because it gets by on its action scenes.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:09 p.m. CST

    there is a comic book sequel to t 2

    by notspock2

    where they area finding bits and pieces of terminators that got destroyed while they were perfecting coming back thru time all over the place. Cyberdyne systems had been collecting them all and putting them in a research facility- it may not have been a very good comic (or it maybe it was- i can't remember) but it was a pretty good way of having skynet come into being even thought the good Arnie was destroyed at the end of T2.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    Behemoth, I completely forgot about that.

    by Joker Gordon Levitt

    1) the mahines don't kill Kyle Reese<br> 2) Connor boxing with a Terminator<br> 3) Marcus Marcus Marcus.. <br> 4) "I'm cold.. hold me..."<br> 5) Who the f* was that little girl supposed to be? Newt?<br> 6) McG didn't watch the previous movies.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST


    by Astronomnz

    ans kudos to you Beaks for acknowledging it!

  • May 21, 2009, 10:10 p.m. CST

    And fuck that "alternate timeline" bullshit.

    by veebeeyes

    Why is it so hard for people to get this through their thick stupid heads? DESTROYING THE CHIP DIDN'T DO SHIT. Just as Kyle Reese was ALWAYS John Connor's father, the arm and the microchip WERE ALWAYS THERE. And by extension, IT DOESN'T MATTER if our heroes destroy them. Because if our heroes destroy the chip, then they ALWAYS destroyed the chip at that point in time. Which STILL leads to the EXACT same fucking future which precedes the first movie. NOTHING was changed by Kyle Reese, the first Terminator, John Connor, Sarah Connor, or the T-1000. NOBODY EVER STOPPED JUDGEMENT DAY. Nobody DELAYED it. NOTHING fucking changes, and nobody has ANY goddamn control over their own actions. Free will DOES NOT EXIST. And that is STILL the situation as the closing credits of T2 start to roll. It was Terminator 3 that changed this, and that's why T3 is the worst fucking shit ever. Because now that T3 RUINED the timeline, it is impossible for any future movies to repair the damage.

  • Okay, let's not get dragged into another debate about that film.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:16 p.m. CST

    off topic, but McGriddles are delicious

    by BMacSmith

    how do make bacon egg and cheese biscuits even better? infuse it with syrup of course!

  • May 21, 2009, 10:18 p.m. CST

    I would prefer John Connor as iconic leader.

    by kabong

    Just a few key scenes, like the opening of T2, with Michael Edwards steely, silent, scarred, and saluted. <P>

  • May 21, 2009, 10:30 p.m. CST

    Um, veebeeyes...?

    by jeffv

    Then why does T2's end sequence narrative say that Judgement Day came and went without incident? Something was changed, at least once, even in the movie continuity.<BR><BR>Of course, the answer is that it was never conceived as a series. It's all tacked on, and the stitching shows. Personally, I always thought that Kyle Reese's "explanation" was one of the better explanations ever given in science fiction: something like "I don't know this stuff. I'm just a soldier." (though that was after saying explicitly that he came from a *possible* future).

  • May 21, 2009, 10:32 p.m. CST

    The Terminator chronology makes sense if you think about it

    by NeoDevilbaneX

    My thoughts on the Terminator chronology: <br>Way I see it, everything beyond the ending of T3 is pretty much uncharted territory... we're in a new timeline now. <br>The events of the timeline can't be rectified into a singular timeline. T2 changed the timeline, and T3 changed it again. What we have is a bunch of alternate timelines being created every time the movies mess with the future again. <br>In the first timeline, SkyNET went live in 1997 via CyberDyne Systems, nukes and countermeasures exchanged with Russia, Judgement Day. Kyle Reese is sent back in 2029 by John Connor. <br>In the second timeline, Judgement Day is averted, postponed until 2004 where it goes via Cyber Research Systems/CRS (instead of CyberDyne, destroyed in 1994/95 in T2). In 2032, John is killed by a T-850 just after he and his top lieutenants score a triumphant victory over SkyNET. <br>In the third timeline in the aftermath of T3, Judgement Day really did happen in 2004 via CRS, John may or may not still be killed by a T-850 in 2032 (probably not, since he would certainly see it coming this time), but now all of his top lieutenants are dead (killed by the T-X in 2004). <br>It's not clear if John sending Kyle back in time to meet his mother still goes on schedule in 2029 in either of the latter timelines (it's possibly everything that happened in 2029 just got bumped to 2032, happening more or less the same). <br>What we DO know is that even if John, now, in the current third timeline, sends Kyle Reese back to 1984 to meet his mother, it wouldn't play out exactly as it did in T1. Kyle would tell her Judgement Day happens in 2004, not 1997; Kyle would tell her Arnie is a Cyber Research Systems T-800, Model 101, not CyberDyne, etc., etc.. <br>Further corrupting the issue would be this : In this new timeline, the T-800 in T2 would tell Sarah Connor that Miles Bennet Dyson was NOT responsible for the creation of SkyNET (and in 2004 rather than 1997) but rather Robert Brewster, and CyberDyne systems was NOT responsible but rather Cyber Research Systems. So Sarah would go after CRS in T2 instead of CyberDyne, meanwhile CyberDyne would STILL have the arm and chip from T1, even in an altered timeline. So, Sarah blows up CRS instead of CyberDyne in T2 (in this new timeline), meanwhile CyberDyne goes on to launch SkyNet on schedule in 1997 potentially! <br>As such, it's really almost easier to rectify if John does NOTHING in this new timeline -- doesn't send Kyle back, only watches his back for T-850s in 2032. I don't believe time travel is such that if John doesn't send Kyle back he'll just vanish in the present... what we have here is alternate timelines, branches if you will, each one with different events. <br>An endless loops of 1997 => 2004 => 1997 => 2004 => 1997 and on and on. It actually works if you really think about it.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Enjoyable with a flat ending

    by Dark Knight Lite

    I didn't enjoy it as much as STAR TREK, but Terminator doesn't have anything in it that is quite as annoying as the "Planet Coincidence" sequence. The "Blair frees Marcus" sequence comes close, but running into Spock Prime and Scotty was damn near a deal breaker the more I thought about it. TERMINATOR: SALVATION does not deserve the abject hatred heaped upon it here, just as the new TREK does not deserve the level of acclaim placed at it's feet here at good old AICN. Dark Knight Out.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:35 p.m. CST

    Positive eh?

    by Champoozie_Jones

    I love how all these "positive" reviews don't sound so positive once you read them. D.Vader got it right about you guys: "its bad, but not *that* bad. Its bad, but thats ok because it gets by on its action scenes."

  • May 21, 2009, 10:38 p.m. CST

    The Harvester did it for me too!

    by Super Rabbi

    That fucker was awesome! I was thinking, all they need is to send 2 or 3 of these massive fuckers into Connor's base, and they'd be fucked. Loved it. The movie is fun, but not great. I don't think it deserves all this geek-hate that it's been receiving.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:39 p.m. CST

    Why does everyone forget the second freaking hand?

    by DarthIllegitimi

    Why does everyone forget there's another Terminator hand left - the one that got trapped in the cog, and Arnie ripped it off? Since everything Dyson did was based off the first hand - why not continue the second. Ergo... T3 was not an alternative timeline.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:41 p.m. CST

    Church of Bale anyone??

    by Semen Stains

    where!!! where may i join the Church of Bale

  • May 21, 2009, 10:46 p.m. CST

    Alternative timelines are bullshit!

    by Batutta

    What is the fucking purpose of sending a Terminator to kill Sarah Connor, if all it's going to do is create an alternate timeline which you will not be a part of? The Skynet that sent the Terminator will still live in the shitty future where they lost. It only makes sense if there is only one timeline, but if that's the case, why send the Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor, since obviously you know you will have failed. The time travel makes NO SENSE, so don't even try. You either buy into it and suspend disbelief, or you don't...And T4 sucked dick, Paul WS Anderson style.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:47 p.m. CST

    The second hand in T2

    by NeoDevilbaneX

    ... wouldn't amount to much by itself, would it? #1, it was smashed to fuck. #2, it's just a little mechanical hand... it doesn't help them build cyborgs. <br> <br> Although... anyone remember the old Terminator 3 official site? There used to be a pic from what I'm assuming was a deleted scene from T3... we DID see the very same hand/forearm Arnold left in the girder attached to some kind of a white machine in a lab.

  • May 21, 2009, 10:49 p.m. CST

    Best review on the site.

    by GhostDad

    Beaks, this hit the nail on the head. If you've looked at other talk backs, I've been a T2 hater simply by setting the terminator formula as "Good robot fights bad Robot while Connor watches." This was repeated in T3 as well as TSCC, when really I always felt Terminator was about normal people up against an unstoppable enemy. Because of the T2 formula, there's nowhere you can really go with Connor, he's been a whiney bitch, now he's an unrelenting tough guy. To be honest, I didn't think the early "He's a machine" ending was that bad because at least it was character growth. But good job on writing a review that doesn't rely simply on "I saw T2 when I was six and it ruuulleed!"

  • May 21, 2009, 10:59 p.m. CST

    That harvester was DAMN PROFESSIONAL!

    by lockesbrokenleg

    And he was killer with the lights. LAH DE DAH!!

  • May 21, 2009, 11:01 p.m. CST


    by DarthIllegitimi

    Hadn't seen the T3 site. Didn't get any of that shit in NZ. It doesn't really matter though whether for all practical purposes the hand is useful. Dyson said in the film that it was the key, so the films retain consistent internal logic. What I'd really like to see is an alternate Terminator played by Stallone - a la last Action Hero.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:14 p.m. CST


    by southafricanguy

    be Stan Winston's swan song. As it will be the last movie released that he himself worked on. Specifically with the creature and alien designs. I for one am rather happy that it will be a Cameron movie thats his swansong....

  • May 21, 2009, 11:15 p.m. CST

    Am I sucker?

    by BillEmic

    Despite all the negative reviews, I'm going to see this movie first thing tomorrow. Why? I've loved The Terminator since I was a kid. I'd have to go back in time to change that fact myself.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:18 p.m. CST

    Ghostdad......still disagree hugely with you

    by southafricanguy

    my friend. The best thing was to change the formula from T1 to T2. T2 would have been a mindless action movie if it replicated the exact same structure T1...what the fuck would be the point? Again, you have to blame hack directors like Mostow and McG for copying T2. They are the ones that could nt come up with anything different....

  • May 21, 2009, 11:20 p.m. CST

    Paul Haggis!!!! I FUCKING KNEW IT!!!!

    by BadMrWonka

    he somehow gets his grimy hack Scientologist mitts in EVERY MAJOR SHITTY DISAPPOINTING MOVIE EVER!!!<p>I would love to chain him up a la Black Snake Moan and punish him for eternity by forcing him to watch Crash over and over and over again...a fate worse than death.<p>Crash was not only the worst movie EVER to steal...ahem..."win" Best Picture, it was the worst movie to ever be NOMINATED for best picture. it was the emperor's new clothes. a piece of steaming shit, the success of which is STILL having ramifications in Hollywood.<p>namely, this talentless piece of rat turd has now helped ruin the Terminator franchise. congratulations you piece of rotting pork, you did it again!!<p>I fucking HATE Paul Haggis.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:22 p.m. CST

    I will always argue that a sequal has to be

    by southafricanguy

    a different movie, characters have to change, different structure, invert characters and themes etc...otherwise you are just remaking the same movie again and changing it cosmetically. If i want to see T1, then i will watch T1. Same goes with T2. That why T3 is so damn pointless. If I want to see that movie i will watch the far superior T2 thanks. Im not interested in any remake of T1 either. At least T4 is trying to have a different formula, i give it a lot of credit for that...just wish it had been made by a talented director...

  • May 21, 2009, 11:24 p.m. CST


    by Kampy0jay

    I cant imagine the amount of thought put into that. But Brilliant. Lol it fits.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:24 p.m. CST

    badmrwonka.....right there with you dude

    by southafricanguy

    Haggis sucks the big one. Thats also how I feel about David Koepps wrting, he also ruins every big budget property he gets his hands on....

  • May 21, 2009, 11:26 p.m. CST


    by Kampy0jay

    I cant imagine the amount of thought put into that. But Brilliant. Lol it fits.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:27 p.m. CST


    by soloaj

    DUMBEST MOVIE PLOT HOLE EVER - all skynet has to do is shoot kyle in the head when he is captured and verified!!! Dead Kyle = end of movie-John doesn't exist fade to black. I was sitting there thinking hmmm this could be interesting when they kill Kyle how will they explain all of this but noooo = Que explosions and some stupid heart to heart transplant. COME ON GUYS!WAKE UP!

  • May 21, 2009, 11:34 p.m. CST


    by dynamicb

    You know ... I love TSCC and i am really pissed it is gone but i hate the alternative timeline crap. It's like telling the fans, "go fuck yourself, this is how it is because we wrote it." And that is lame. I wonder how Michael and Denise Okuda feel about altenative timelines when the spent their entire live chronicaling one(a very detailed one I might add). Canon means something. Even though there are major errors in ST and Terminator Canon. If canon in these franchises weren't at least MAJORILY one would fucking watch...because no one would care.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:41 p.m. CST

    Funny...Beaks' top reason for giving T:S a "PASS"

    by LabattsBleu

    was the havester sequence THAT WASN'T DIRECTED BY FREAKIN' McGinty!!! LOL...isn't that a kick in the nuts?! T:S should get a "pass"; fans of the Cameron termintor should really pass on this abortion

  • May 21, 2009, 11:44 p.m. CST

    The factory scene had problems

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Connor gets in really easy. With all those fucking robots on there only ONE attacks? WTF? Other than that the movie was pretty decent.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:49 p.m. CST

    I Really Don't Want to Sound Stupid

    by RichardAlpert_TimePimp

    I watch tons and tons of movies, and I enjoy all sorts of things, but I watched Primer, and I admit, it was fascinating and well-made and I certainly didn't hate it, but as far as I'm concerned, I had no clue what the fuck was really going on. I understood what was happening, but the conversations....I had no idea what those guys were talking about, I couldn't even imagine how there was a script for that. Some of it didn't even sound like real words to me, haha. It seems a bit pretentious to me for someone who isnt a rocket scientist to call it brilliant, because I'm not conviced any one knew what they wer talking about, but I'm willing to accept that maybe I am wrong. Who understood that time-babble?

  • May 21, 2009, 11:51 p.m. CST

    I enjoyed myself, but I didn't expect much.

    by antonphd

    I liked the other Terminator films... didn't love them... so, I had the hope of a fun film with cool robots and I got just what I wanted in this film. Sure, it has some poorly executed scenes and dialogue out of an episode of Heroes and Bale does actually look like he's bored... but Bale looked bored in the Batman films too, so, what do you expect from Bale when he's in movies like this. Even Shaft was more interesting to Bale than these big summer series. But I enjoyed myself. I'll watch it again in the theater probably.

  • May 21, 2009, 11:57 p.m. CST

    they wussed out on the ending, and ruined the movie

    by BMacSmith

    exactly what i expected. its a Phantom Menace

  • May 22, 2009, 12:02 a.m. CST

    primer was good, but one Primer is enough

    by BMacSmith

    well, maybe a few more overly complex movies wouldnt hurt. its more enjoyable after i looked it up on Wiki and figured out what the fuck was going on. cool movie.

  • May 22, 2009, 12:07 a.m. CST

    Reason #4 for giving T:S a pass

    by LabattsBleu

    "short run time"...ROFLMAO!!! Maybe Reason #5 is "used union labour"?! WTF?! In other words, the movie sucks ass...

  • May 22, 2009, 12:14 a.m. CST

    Going to see Anvil tomorrow instead...

    by Underoos Hero

    Anvil is a documentary about a metal band. Go check out the trailer on YouTube.

  • May 22, 2009, 12:18 a.m. CST

    WTF IS ANVIL?!!!

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Sounds like some shitty film you see at South by Southwest.

  • May 22, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST

    I repeat.....

    by Underoos Hero

    Anvil is a documentary about a metal band. Go check out the trailer on YouTube

  • May 22, 2009, 12:22 a.m. CST

    Report Back...

    by Underoos Hero

    ..after you've watched the trailer so that I know you're not a dumb ass.

  • May 22, 2009, 1 a.m. CST

    "WTF IS ANVIL?!!!"

    by The_Man_Behind_The_Curtain

    Are you fucking retarded or something. Did you even read the TWO sentences above your post or was fifteen words too many for your brain to cope with? </br>Fucking dumbass.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:03 a.m. CST

    I've been playing Fallout 3 again recently...

    by The Amazing G

    and Terminator Salvation reminded me a bit of it, I kept expecting to hear "THIS IS THREEDOG! OWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!" over a radio

  • May 22, 2009, 1:04 a.m. CST

    Re: TERMINATOR Paradox

    by ArmageddonProductions

    It's quite simple, really: John Conner sends Kyle Reese back in time to become his father. Time travel was invented and perfected by Skynet. So, if they had successfully prevented Judgment Day from happening at the end of T2, the last scene of the movie would be Edward Furlong disintegrating into nothingness and Sarah Conner suddenly discovering herself with a tray of burgers and fries at the restaurant where she was still waiting tables at in THE TERMINATOR. By preventing Judgment Day, it not only would have stopped the war, it would have pretty much negated every single event that happened from the opening scene in TERMINATOR 1 on. And considering that the ORIGINAL ending of T2 had John Conner grow up to be a Senator, and that the ultimately-used ending claimed that Judgment Day didn't happen and that Sarah and John Conner kept on truckin', I'd say Cameron had as little grasp on the paradox as McG.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:07 a.m. CST


    by Toonol

    Did it clearly establish that Skynet knew Reese was Connor's father? I know they were using Reese to GET to Connor, but... especially if Skynet doesn't have any conception of time travel at this point... the idea that eliminating Reese would cause Connor to vanish in a cloud of self-contradiction might not have occurred to it.<p> Perhaps it just knew Connor was desperately looking for Reese.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:12 a.m. CST

    I enjoyed this movie a lot

    by SmokingRobot

    John Connor fights Terminators. What did you expect? Hamlet?

  • May 22, 2009, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Amazing G

    by MattmanReturns

    "Don't feed the Yao Guai!"

  • May 22, 2009, 1:15 a.m. CST

    "Bale looked bored in the Batman films too"

    by MattmanReturns

    Oh please don't try to tarnish the Batman films in some feeble attempt to make Terminator Salvation not as bad as it clearly is. Bale was excellent in both Batman films, didn't look bored in the slightest.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:21 a.m. CST

    Lasers? Scars? The Hair? Mad Max.. Small Nitpicks..

    by theblackvegtable

    Im not one to over-nitpick but there is a certain absence of crucial 'symbols' or expectations that just arnt in SALVATION. As taken by my title, Im talking about the changes made in the appocolyptic world created in the 1991 classic and so forth. No lasers? unfortunet but true. The big guns that make that cool sound and burn through members of the resistance of been abbandonned for the same weapons that 'wearnt enough' in the first movie. Isnt John connor supposed to have two wicked scars along his face? Small nitpicks I know but I wanted John Conner in this movie not batman with short hair. The movie just fails to put you into the feeling of desperation and suffering like the shorts in the other movies did. For instance, why in the future when people are suffering and dying do the lead female cast have such amazing hair.. They dont look 'war ravaged' at all, and those small things just pull me away from any emotion toward there plight. The setting is a desert like off madmax, as it should have been a bleak old city. I know im rambling many things at once, but I cant help but think that the directors didnt actually see a terminator movie. My gripes come from a pissed off fan that is sick of hollywood NEVER sticking to the material its given. Cinema is collapsing, every big hype movie recentlty has just plain sucked. I mean ANYBODY directing a movie about what weve all wanted to see since the first movie would even by accident make it resemble the amazing appocolyptic nightmare that we have all been expecting.. but no. The movie itself in my opinion didnt have to be more then what it was meant to be (just a two hour version of the shorts we saw). and it fails because it tried just to hard to be differant. Cheers Black Vegetable

  • May 22, 2009, 1:44 a.m. CST


    by Eli_Cash

    That exposes the catch 22 for those who think that anything after T2 is just an alternate timeline. If one considers it possible that the Connors stopped judgement day in T2, then they acknowledge that causal loops don't exist, otherwise John would cease to be. In that case, judgement day was never caused by the presence of the terminator fragments, it was only accelerated. Judgment day must therefore have been inevitable, like T3 says. In other words, T2's logic is self refuting. If they could stop judgment day by stopping the causal loop, then they would stop all of the causal loops, including John's. So this implies two things about the T-universe. Causal loops aren't a part of time travel, and judgment day was not caused by such a loop.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:53 a.m. CST

    Alternate timelines

    by Eli_Cash

    "What is the fucking purpose of sending a Terminator to kill Sarah Connor, if all it's going to do is create an alternate timeline which you will not be a part of? The Skynet that sent the Terminator will still live in the shitty future where they lost." That's only if you think the alternate timelines exist in parallel. I think the new timeline replaces the old one. "It only makes sense if there is only one timeline, but if that's the case, why send the Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor, since obviously you know you will have failed." No. Once the timeline is altered it is altered. The old timeline ceases to exist if the conditions that create it no longer are true. But this would require that the terminator and the protector in each instance are sent back while the machine is still actively linked to the same place in the timeline. In other words, the resistance would have to send their guy back before skynet has a chance to shut the machine down and effectively hit "save changes".

  • May 22, 2009, 2:03 a.m. CST

    the badass John Conner

    by BBSloth

    I agree I always found thee older the John Conner from T2 to be badass. I wish they made a full film with him

  • May 22, 2009, 2:08 a.m. CST

    Why they never sent the T1000 and the TX back to the 1950s

    by moviemaniac-7

    to kill Sarah Connor's parents? Hell, send an army of state of the art terminators back! Well, one could argue a great deal about it. I personally think that - and online reports confirm this - the script is the weak point of the movie. Hell, the guy who did the novelization got back and rewrote cause the original script they STARTED to shoot with was like nothing they ended up with. On-set tinkering with the script is a dangerous thing. Get the fucking script ready, then start casting, then start filming. That order.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:09 a.m. CST

    Lasers? Scars? The Hair? Mad Max.. Small Nitpicks..

    by Toonol

    I think he got the facial scare at the end, when the terminator with the molten finger scraped his cheek.<p> I understand wanting something that blended seamlessly into the flash-forwards that Cameron filmed... but this film wasn't intended to get to that point. That stuff is another ten years in the future. This is only a few years after Judgment day; time travel hasn't been invented yet, lasers aren't common, etc. At least, that's my assumption.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:13 a.m. CST

    no reason to tell this story?

    by TheMcflyFarm

    It is when John Connor rescues and first meets his father. It is when the humans first gain an upper hand against the machines and Connor spreads his word and legacy and unites the people. It is when John Connor first encounters a T-800 and gets scarred and learns to understand the power of the human heart through Marcus. Seems pretty relevant to me.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:17 a.m. CST

    why not do T5 like this ...

    by The Only Woj

    Skynet sends a Terminator back to the late 1700's to take out John/Sarah's ancestor. The Terminator can't bring back weapons so it's having to try and kill the guy with muskets and shit. can't you just see a Terminator shooting and missing, then having to pull out that bag of gun powder, then putting in the bullets and that stick to push it all down and then having to shoot again. or riding horses. this movie would kick so much ass.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:18 a.m. CST

    i dont even remember Connor having a scar

    by BMacSmith

    didnt really see that as some major element to the Terminator story. I must've missed a line of dialogue somewhere.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:27 a.m. CST

    Good Grief!

    by Clio

    Those who bashed this movie either wished desperately for the movie they wanted, or were ready to hate it before walking in. I thought it was very entertaining and a pretty good kick-off for a reboot. Re Harry's review: I don't think he made a single accurate statement, not even by accident. No, I'm not bashing the bashers. To each his own opinion, but I figure my opinion is a good as anyone else's here---everyone should feel that way. So get your hate out of the way--go ahead and spew it out. Too bad you didn't enjoy a pretty good film. PS. All those comments concerning poor acting are simply garbage--IMHO, of course.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:38 a.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Anyone else think this review falls into the classic geek trap of treating a movie not for 'what it is' but for what the said-geek 'thinks it should be'?

  • May 22, 2009, 2:47 a.m. CST

    ""Mr Beaks finds nothing wrong with the new terminator film

    by Hey_Zeus

    but can't find anything right about it either, so he just concentrates on the wrong stuff." and yeah, primer is smart, but nobody actually enjoyed watching it. that's the sacrifice.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:53 a.m. CST


    by lockesbrokenleg

    Who the FUCK even remembers that? I sure the fuck don't!

  • May 22, 2009, 4:48 a.m. CST

    Terminator Salvation Had a Story

    by CadderlySoaring

    Just got back from Terminator Salvation and I have to say I had a fantastic time tonight. Some superb action sequences and the scene where a certain "someone" comes out of nowhere with that heavy-handed classic theme in the background made this film a worthwhile experience. <p> Sam Worthington gave a great performance as the centerpiece to the overall story and the film itself continued the arc of humanity vs. machines crossing the lines into morality. In Terminator 2, Cameron hammered down the father-son issues with Connor as Arnold plays the substitute father figure that young John never had growing up. <p> The same arc of human decision/fate themes were used in this tale with Marcus never truly escaping his fate but playing a difference with the decision process behind how he reached it. While I consider the very end to be a bit over-the-top, I have no problems saying that Terminator Salvation was worth every cent (and more) and it served as a good lead-in story to this new trilogy. Should be noted that ILM scored another homerun with that "cameo" as well. <p> It's not even the weekend yet (Translation: a lot of people haven't seen the movie yet) but I'll sum up the sole reason I liked the film. And yes, it has to do that with that "story" that some critics are saying isn't there. <p> I enjoyed how Marcus (Sam Worthington), the true main character of this film, had a choice before him from beginning to end. At the start, his fate was handed (sentenced) to him. He had no choice in the matter. <p> He received a second chance through the choice of machines (Ironically, who are looking to wipe out humanity) and given a choice on the matter, he still sealed his fate by deciding it on his terms. <p> For those who say there wasn't a story in Terminator Salvation (Harry), I call "foul". The direction may have been a bit off by McG’s action fetish but the overall story of morality, humanity and fate were all represented in this fourth installment as much so as they were in Terminator and Terminator 2. <p> So I walked away pleased with the film. <p> A Solid B-plus experience.

  • May 22, 2009, 4:50 a.m. CST

    Not every trace...

    by Crawing

    Robodaddy's arm is still trapped in the machine. They only throw in the arm from the original terminator. Lots of people don't realise this.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:02 a.m. CST

    My Terminator: Salvation Movie Review

    by Media Messiah

    I just saw the new Terminator movie at a local theater here in town. In regard to the blockbuster summer movies, I can safely say that it is the best of the lot, so far, however, it has its rough spots, several erratic rough spots, in fact--and as entertainingly frenetic as the movie is, it serves to remind one, just a bit too much...of the now classic film...The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2), in look, style, and action, at times. <BR><BR> In respect to another problem for the film, one that leaps out at viewers, T4 could have used a healthy injection of romance. Although the movie had its sparse moments of romance, those moments were not well defined...leaving the film audience emotionally distant from the film's main characters, and their inner personal stakes. <BR><BR> That said, Terminator: Salvation looks like 200 to 250 million dollars...and that is a good thing. Yes, all the money is on screen, and you get your ticket's worth, unlike the new Star Trek film, which is not very good, and looks low budget, by comparison. <BR><BR> The new Terminator has its thrills, and is well acted by leads Christian Bale and Sam Worthington. Adding to the intense fest, is the hyper direction by helmer McG, who delivers his greatest directing job to date. In terms of technical prowess, this film is on a high level throughout, save for multiple...and rather awkward...but short, scene transitions. Aside from that, however, it looked top notch, all the way; s high-octane, and technically impressive actioner, the film worked on all cylinders, save for some nagging, and obvious, omissions. The dramatic elements needed a healthy sense of fun, humor, amusement park rollercoaster evoking gasps, and of course, the strongly hinted at, but largely missing...romance, to counter its often overpowering, and dour, doomsday mood. But rest assured, Christian Bale fans, the new Terminator is strong enough to guarantee that this hit movie series will continue its successful run for years to come, or as Arnold once declared, "I'll be back!"-MM

  • May 22, 2009, 5:05 a.m. CST

    "You'll see much, much worse"

    by photoboy

    Yes, all will be forgiven when Bay shits TINO2 out to the cinemas.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:31 a.m. CST

    Amended: My Terminator: Salvation Movie Review

    by Media Messiah

    I just saw the new Terminator movie at a local theater here in town. In regard to the blockbuster summer movies, I can safely say that it is the best of the lot, so far, however, it has its rough spots, several erratic rough spots, in fact--and as entertainingly frenetic as the movie is, it serves to remind one, just a bit too much...of the now classic film...The Road Warrior (Mad Max 2), in look, style, and action, at times. In respect to another problem for the film, one that leaps out at viewers, T4 could have used a healthy injection of romance. Although the movie had its sparse moments of romance, those moments were not well defined...leaving the film audience emotionally distant from the film's main characters, and their inner personal stakes. <BR><BR> That said, Terminator: Salvation looks like 200 to 250 million dollars...and that is a good thing. Yes, all the money is on screen, and you get your ticket's worth, unlike the new Star Trek film, which is not very good, and looks low budget, by comparison. <BR><BR> The new Terminator has its thrills, and is well acted by leads Christian Bale and Sam Worthington. Adding to the intense fest, is the hyper direction by helmer McG, who delivers his greatest directing job to date. In terms of technical prowess, this film is on a high level throughout, save for multiple...and rather awkward...but short, scene transitions. Aside from that, however, it looks top notch, all the way. As an high-octane, and technically impressive actioner, the film worked on all cylinders, save for some nagging, and obvious, omissions. The dramatic elements needed a healthy sense of fun, humor, amusement park rollercoaster evoking gasps, and of course, the strongly hinted at, but largely missing...romance, to counter its often overpowering, and dour, doomsday mood. But rest assured, Christian Bale fans, the new Terminator is strong enough to guarantee that this hit movie series will continue its successful run for years to come, or as Arnold once declared, "I'll be back!"-MM

  • May 22, 2009, 5:40 a.m. CST

    Good review. THAT'S how to do this thing.

    by Sal_Bando

    Sounds like a reasonably good time at the movies, just don't expect too much. <p> For REAL shite-check out GI Joe in August methinks.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:51 a.m. CST


    by Conans Sword

    Why the hell did you put a star trek spoiler in there! you fucking bitch ive been avoiding everything about that film! fuck sake!!!! (>.<)

  • May 22, 2009, 6:09 a.m. CST

    Original Trek timeline

    by ballyhoo

    As far as I'm concerned, it's gone. Erased. Bye bye. The only remnant is Spock Prime, who I think became immune to temporal effects once he stepped out of time. I mean, if Trek from now on will follow the new timeline, and assuming they will never visit the original timeline again, then what is the point of telling myself it is still intact at all? Bye bye original timeline. I loved you, and thankfully, I can still view your adventures if I want. But I have moved on.

  • May 22, 2009, 7:02 a.m. CST

    The Anvil Doco is fucking awesome..

    by quantize

    one of the best films this year!

  • May 22, 2009, 7:35 a.m. CST


    by Tin Snoman

    raised the bar of intelligent filmmaking. But has Carruth made another film since? Meanwhile, McG picks the corn from his stool and puts it on film, makes bank, gets sequel deals. No justice in this world.

  • May 22, 2009, 7:43 a.m. CST

    That never happened, jeffv.

    by veebeeyes

    Terminator 2 never said that Judgement Day came and went without incident. The movie ends ambiguously with Sarah Connor heading towards an "uncertain" future. Of course, it's only uncertain from her point of view, since she has no fucking idea how time works. The audience, on the other hand, knows differently.

  • May 22, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    Anyone who tells themselves anything differently needs to remove Cameron's cock from their mouth and open their eyes. He had just made the Abyss which BOMBED, so he went back to something reliable, hacked out a competent, family friendly film -- the children's adventure movie T2: WOBODADDY FALL DOWN GO BOOM). It paid off! He made a mint. <br><br> T1 was an honest shot at something cool. T2 and all further entries in the series were cynical money grabs... with the caveat that THIS one actually looks like it at least focuses on the ONLY STORY THAT NEEDED TO BE TOLD -- FUTURE! FUCKING! WAR!<br><br> Stop fooling yourselves. Wake up. T2 wasn't art, and neither is this. But at least this doesn't betray the original concept so utterly and completely as T2: WOBOT MIDDLECLASS FAMILY ANGST: THE MOVIE.

  • May 22, 2009, 7:52 a.m. CST


    by LaserPants

    My wordstuff need fixings.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Killing Reese

    by KUATO_NL

    Skynet killing Reese wouldn't have mattered. John Connor would still have lived in this timeline.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Semen Stains

    by Stuntcock Mike

  • May 22, 2009, 8:21 a.m. CST

    So everyone disagrees with Harry.

    by FACEfaceFACEface_____FACE


  • May 22, 2009, 8:39 a.m. CST

    what it must be like


    i can imagine being someone involved in the industry- and you're told you have to take bit to do an interview with an entertainment site- and you are already a little exhausted or annoyed with the business of junkets, etc- and they lead you to a hotel room (because harry is room-ridden like Marvel's MOJO) and the door opens and there is a big sweaty, glistening ginger goober that is wayyy to excited to see you and proceeds to ask you the oddest angled yet blandest questions, meanwhile taking everything you say and trying to relate it to his childhood so he can come off like you guys are best friends and exactly the same....but you get through it. a week later you are curious enough to go online to see how you were portrayed in the interview- only to find such professional terms like 'bowl of dicks', 'chocolate covered pussy juice' and 'fuck your eyeballs' used to describe the work you had a hand in. and that's why i don't understand how AICN stays in business.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:49 a.m. CST

    This big fella made the twelve-year-old in me very happy

    by one_guy_from_andromeda

    what an idiot. man, beaks is really the worst. this guy even liked terminator salvation.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:56 a.m. CST


    by SunTzu77

    was horrible... Salon hit the nail on the head...

  • May 22, 2009, 8:58 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    we get it. you wrongly think T2 is a children's film. everyone here see what an ass you are. enjoy your WAR movie, i hear its "great". But how can that be if Guns N Roses are in it??? you want mindless drivel? be my guest. fucking die!

  • May 22, 2009, 9:05 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    i dont know why i bother. how do you think T2 betrayed the original? it took the premise and followed through. it picks up where the last one left off. Cameron, at that point, really had no intention of showing the FUTURE FUCKING WAR. that was just basically a device to propel the story along. IF he wanted to show that, he would have made Terminator like that. Terminator films have always been about the present day action. You're the kind of douch who sees EMPIRE and says "i weely want a film made about Boba Fett, please mr. Lucas, i massage your throat pouch if you make one. please!" <P>Cameron took his plot and extended the mythology, which he can do since HE FUCKING CREATED IT!!!

  • May 22, 2009, 9:07 a.m. CST

    Ace of Wands

    by one_guy_from_andromeda

    Stupid. By this logic Terminator 1 and 2 wouldn't even be allowed to exist. Why do you think they sent the Terminator back in time? Because Connor EXISTS in their time.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:22 a.m. CST

    btw, T2's Rotten Tomatoes score? 97% Fresh.

    by LabattsBleu

    big difference. T2 wasn't Hamlet, but it is still considered one of the top SciFi movies ever made(AFI for example has it 8th all time)....T2 was a cash grab to some degree, but done by the guy who actually came up with the vision, not some throwaway hack and a team of Rotten people!!!That's how bad its gotten...even T3 got 70% Fresh for god's sake! Remember, these are just average people doing the reviews, so their opinion is NOT explained away through notions of "fanboy expectations"

  • May 22, 2009, 9:29 a.m. CST

    But Watchmen was about 50% rotten...

    by veebeeyes

    And that was the best damn movie ever made.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:30 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Thing is, Connor is flesh and blood in the movie. Killing young Kyle would not have made him vanish. It made sense to instead use Kyle as bait to lure Connor into Skynet. <P> I'm in your and Massa's camp regarding this movie. I really don't get the hate and if you ever have a sit-down with Harry can you find out the REAL REASON behind his disdain for it? I firmly put this entry right behind T1, with no reservations. <P> Bale be praised, he done it again.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:36 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    Come on! wrym's review said he had 3 problems with it...they were big fucking problems though. the only thing he liked was the action.<P> Beaks is basically giving it a pass...barely he says. <P>these arent really positive reviews, not where you were really really glad you saw the film. blown away. <P> my expectations are really low but im going in thinking it will be a fun empty thrill ride. am i on the right course?

  • May 22, 2009, 9:37 a.m. CST

    I'm not going to get sucked into the

    by Grammaton Cleric Binks

    this movies sucks, no you're wrong it's great, no you suck for thinking that way diatribes. I'm not even going to post something different on all the talbacks on T4. I'm going to write this, copy and paste once and be done with it. There are spoilers so be careful. I don't have time to read all the comments, so excuse me if I'm repetitive. First, I'm glad TSCC was cancelled right before this came out. I had hopes for the show. It's not a bad show, but I just can't get over them changing the canon of oh wait well now machines really can travel to the past, oh by the way we put our own cells in the fifties, and instead of having them find Sarah and save her they'll just sit around. Having said that T4 is visually a good film. We expected that from McG although there were moments when it did look like we were watching Transformers or The Matrix. This was a kick ass action film. But, is that enough for Terminator fans. I suggest no one spout off on this movie until they see it. The one point that really bugs me is this. If Marcus was programmed to infiltrate the resistance so he could kill Reese and Connor why didn't he just do it when he first met them both. He had the chance. He didn't have to lure them back to skynet. The only thing I can think of is maybe his programming could not go that far. To make him believe he is human, which he is I suppose, they couldn't have him side with the machines and kill them outright. Another thing that bugged me is the fact that all of a sudden the machines know Reese is the father of Connor. That means they know they will invent time travel. They didn't know Reese was the father before, so why do they know now. And, if they did, why didn't they kill him when they first captured him. Look fellow nerds is it a perfect movie, of course not. It is a good movie with a few sticking points. I don't see any of you going out there and making a movie.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:39 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    i can see why some people and critics dont like that. its a pretty hard stroy for the masses and a lot to follow. T4 on the other hand is just another summer film.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:41 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    You're on the right course. I enjoyed it more than the reviewers here. Boils down to expectations and personal taste, and how much bad editing and casting you're willing to put up with. Frankly, I don't think you're going to enjoy it nearly as much as I do. Once you read an abundance of bad press (and in this case highly unwarranted), you're walking into the theater with an unshakable bias. To me that's kind of cheating one's self, especially in this case.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:43 a.m. CST

    Apparently Terminator series...

    by veebeeyes

    is pretty hard to follow as well. I'm still absolutely dumbfounded by the number of stupid fucks who still don't even understand these simple movies. And besides, I was joking about Watchmen being the best movie ever. I understood it just fine, it's just that I thought it was a piece of shit.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:43 a.m. CST


    by YackBacker

    Dude, you may state your case in a taunting manner, but I agree w/ ya- T2 sold out the franchise by turning Arnie into a teddy bear. And the plotting was plodding! It's not a terrible movie, but I can only watch 5 or so select scenes at most in a sitting. And Linda Hamilton cannot act, sorry.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:44 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    playing Connor, I would've enjoyed it a hell of a lot less. <P> My faith remains unshaken.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:45 a.m. CST

    Already been through this...

    by Balcony Fool

    ... in several other talkbacks, so I won't reiterate all the points here, but T3 is a far better film than the over-rated T2. While it's true that Mostow doesn't have Cameron's eye for cinematic beauty and bad-assery, T2 was nothing more than a beat-for-beat retread of the original film, with better FX and a bigger budget. It was also maudlin, and packed with cheesy jokes. Credit to Cameron for making it all look so damn good.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:50 a.m. CST

    Ha! Nobody wants to admit they liked this movie.

    by Stuntcock Mike

    I fucking loved it.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:53 a.m. CST

    Balcony Fool

    by one_guy_from_andromeda

    Yeah, T3 was not a maudlin retread with cheesy jokes. Are you fucking serious? That's a spot on description of T3 (pretty much the only thing i remember about that one is the scene where Arnie puts on the "funny" sunglasses and the movie stops for a second so that the audience can finish chuckling) Lower class pandering of the worst degree. Terminator was over after the end of T2, everything after can be ignored.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:54 a.m. CST

    BSB, I like the cut of your Jib.

    by Stuntcock Mike

    I wanted entertainment and Bale from this film. I got both.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:56 a.m. CST

    Again though, you want embarrasing dialog?

    by Stuntcock Mike

    T2 is chock full 'o that.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:58 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Amen, and Balellujah.

  • May 22, 2009, 10 a.m. CST

    Gotta love the shout-out to PRIMER.

    by Royston Lodge

    Gawd, I loved that movie.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:05 a.m. CST

    I say boycott the 5th movie now

    by Moviegimp

    Everything that is bad about this story and he is going to make it worse? <br> <br> McG said the time displacement equipment and the T-1000 will be reintroduced in the fifth film: "I like the idea and the perspective for the next picture that you meet Robert Patrick the way he looks today, and he's a scientist that's working on, you know, improving cell replication so we can stay healthier and we can cure diabetes and do all these things that sound like good ideas, and to once again live as idealized expressions as ourselves.(WTF) <br> <br> McG added the fifth film "is likely to be" about Connor himself time travelling to 2011 to galvanize the world's forces against a Skynet attack(WTF), which would explore a "survivalist creature in our world doing his best to bring the world up to speed on an impending doom...(WTF) and one could argue he meets his mother (really big WTF). I strongly suspect Linda Hamilton to be the star of the next film." McG also said the origin story they had in mind for the T-1000 would satirize the world's "obsession" with youth and aging,(WTF) and also described having "hunter killers and transports and harvesters and everything arriving in our time and Connor fighting back with conventional military warfare" (WTF). Connor's child, whom Kate is pregnant with in Salvation, will also be important(It's your kids Marty WTF). McG has stated that they've "arced out a story that includes that child and its fate and what it becomes in this world of man versus machine (WTF)." McG has also mentioned that the film would show "the genesis of [Sam Worthington's character] Marcus(who cares). <br> <br> It has nothing to do with this being a good action film or war film, it's not, it has to do with telling the story of Reese and Conner. Not Marcus, not Conner's kids, future Conner in our time, what?! <br> <br> I say we start the boycott now and write McG and tell him that we don't want this storyline at all.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:11 a.m. CST

    I frikkin' love NeoDevilbaneX theory on the timeline.

    by Royston Lodge

    The idea of a timeloop involving two alternating histories is a frikkin' elegant way of looking at it. The best part being that it doesn't require the use of two "parallel" realities. Rather, history just alternates endlessly between the two possible outcomes.<p> The downside is that there can (in theory) be no more Terminator stories that take place after Kyle Reese is sent back in time, because that's the moment when the "alternating time loop" is set in motion, not without acknowledging the existence of parallel timelines, which I find personally distasteful.<p>That is, if the producers care about such things.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:14 a.m. CST


    by Balcony Fool

    I didn't say T3 had no cheesy jokes -- but you can thank T2 for introducing cheesy jokes into the series, and for turning Arnie the terminator into a clown. <P> And, no, T3 was not a "retread" in the least. It was a chase movie, just like the first two, but it advanced the story, which T2 did *not* do. At the end of T2, we were right back where we began. By the end of T3, major events had taken place: Sarah Connor had perished, a prominent new character had been introduced, Connor had moved into position to become leader of the resistance, and we witnessed the end of the freakin' world. <P> T3 advanced both story and character. T2 was a thrilling but ultimately pointless narrative that accomplished nothing, except to teach us that even killer robots could learn to love.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:21 a.m. CST

    BSB--showtime in an hour

    by Six Demon Bag

    the fact that im still going shows theres at least some interest. i dont like to throw my money away. i usually take reviews lightly, i feel that they are just one opinion and really only one opinion should matter (to me at least)--MINE. but the overall negative reviews isdisheartening, even though many critics are giving it a pass, cause its the summer. let you know after. Bale be with me?

  • May 22, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST

    Stuntcock Mike

    by Six Demon Bag

    i will give you that Cameron realy can write some meh dialogue, but compared to the one-liners in Alien 4, he's Shakespeare. Cameron is a great storyteller,and great exposiotionist but the banter can be, you know?

  • May 22, 2009, 10:25 a.m. CST

    it wasn't that bad

    by themastadon

    i personally enjoyed it, but i did go into it with no expectations at all. i read all the bad reviews, and knew all the problems going in so i wasn't expecting a film to the caliber plotwise of terminator 1 or 2. i walked into the theatre knowing that the series i love isn't coming back and that as long as i saw some kick ass action with some inventive use of the terminators i was going to be happy. i've spent years knit picking every detail of films and being anal, and i've found that it's just not worth it because i had stopped enjoying pretty much every film i watched, and really what's the point of watching a movie if you're going into it ready to pick it apart? i go in with an open mind now and if i'm impressed, i am, and if not...c'est la vie. that's just my two cents though, i say check out terminator salvation though.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:30 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    As if you had a choice. BWAHAHAHHAHAAHAAHA!!!!!

  • May 22, 2009, 10:34 a.m. CST

    Stuntcock, so I'm nobody to you now.

    by Grammaton Cleric Binks

    I'm not going to be ignored am I?

  • May 22, 2009, 10:41 a.m. CST

    Damn you Binks. Damn you.

    by Stuntcock Mike

    We are brothers in Oleg and Bale. Those bonds are permanent. Your point about none of us making a movie is Professional. I mean really, what exactly did everybody want this film to be? Future War? Check. Action? Check. I'd like to hear what a hater of this film would describe his perfect Terminator film as being. It's a valid question I think. Like I said earlier, time travel is such a fucked up idea in the first place that the idea of strict continuity is ridiculous. You squash a bug and it changes history. Or not.

  • May 22, 2009, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Six Demon Bag

    by Stuntcock Mike

    I don't like bagging on T2 'cause I'm actually a fan of the damn thing. It's just funny when silly dialog from Salvation or T3 is brought up.

  • May 22, 2009, 11:07 a.m. CST

    Go enjoy It

    by unclebusu

    It's not great, but it is fun and the practical effects are awesome

  • May 22, 2009, 11:07 a.m. CST

    I pray to Bale I enjoy this film

    by D.Vader

    Because the stain of McG's idiocy taints my expectations so far.

  • May 22, 2009, 11:18 a.m. CST

    NO, time trave is NOT possible

    by DoctorWho?

    And not just now but EVER. <p> Limited, linear, human thinking traps us into parceling time into 'past' 'present' and 'future'...they are just illusions. There is only one single NOW. It is said this can only be perceived at death or through super human spiritual transcendence like a Buddha or something.<p> But I have a Tardis so none of that applies to me.

  • May 22, 2009, 11:46 a.m. CST

    Wait a second IndustryKiller

    by emteem

    Are you suggesting that Kyle Reese, just like every other person who ever lived, may not be the same as an adult as they were as a teenager?<p>I haven't seen the film so I'm not defending it, but before you've even see it your complaint is that people change over time?

  • May 22, 2009, 12:27 p.m. CST

    That makes no fucking sense at all

    by one_guy_from_andromeda

  • May 22, 2009, 12:27 p.m. CST

    paradox fix

    by Kraken

    I think I had a pretty good idea of what the movie should have been about. What if John Conner from T2 and T3 isn't the real John Conner? Think about it, he was never supposed to be born. Maybe the Terminator and Kyle Reese got it wrong, maybe Sarah Conner wasn't the right Sarah Conner after all? Then the false John Conner realizes the fact that he... Read More's alive might change everything in the timeline, and has to sacrifice himself somehow to help the real John Conner that was always going to be the leader of the resistance.

  • May 22, 2009, 12:37 p.m. CST

    Kraken - McG already wussed out on changing Conner

    by BMacSmith

    they shit themselves when the geeks started whining about COnner being anything other than generic hero guy. No way would they have the balls to do that. good idea though.

  • May 22, 2009, 12:39 p.m. CST

    so what if T2's plot was similar to T1?

    by BMacSmith

    they were still incredibly different movies. They were even different genres. T1 was a horror movie. T2 was action.

  • May 22, 2009, 1:27 p.m. CST

    T3 is way better than T2. That is all

    by jah_kingdom

  • May 22, 2009, 1:49 p.m. CST

    TERMINATOR 3 was salvaged by the great dark ending

    by SpyGuy

    Most of the film was a bit meh, apart from a solid crane chase sequence, but when Judgement Day actually happens instead of being prevented (again), T3's existence becomes justifiable.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:10 p.m. CST

    I'm with you Beaks

    by jvamvakias

    If you watch T-Salvation as a summer action movie (which it is), it kicks ass. The beginning scene I might of re wrote, and Maybe you can over analyze the performances and criticize, but last time I check there wasn't a whole lot of action movie stars taking home Oscars. Quit acting like this movie is stepping on your grave fellow movie geeks!

  • May 22, 2009, 2:13 p.m. CST

    Uh...the real hero was Sarah Connor, thank you.

    by Jollymorphic

    Ya chauvinist. Also, another thank-you for the shout out for Primer.

  • May 22, 2009, 2:42 p.m. CST

    Balcony Fool

    by Lord_Byron_Farthammer

    "T3 advanced both story and character. T2 was a thrilling but ultimately pointless narrative that accomplished nothing, except to teach us that even killer robots could learn to love." LOL! Beautiful synopsis! Terminator was a classic. T2 was an R-rated "Short Circuit". People need to stop pretending otherwise.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST

    But Kraken, he WAS John Connor.

    by veebeeyes

    Look at the polaroid. Sarah has it, she gives it to John, who gives it to Kyle. If Sarah has it, then Kyle IS the father and John IS the real deal.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:19 p.m. CST

    As for alternate timlines

    by zinc_chameleon

    Kyle Reese HIMSELF explains it to Sarah Connor: "One possible future; I don't know, I'm not a tech." Did everyone forget that, in all the T1 worship? And yes, time travel is possible, but it involves manipulation of the quantum vacuum, with energies at the solar system level. And, if done wrong, the our entire Universe could wink out of existence. Oops!

  • May 22, 2009, 3:24 p.m. CST

    T2 was a masterpiece; T3 a merchandising opportunity.

    by TurdontheRun

    Deal with it, fuckheads. T3 was nothing but a rather transparent attempt for Arnie to fund his upcoming political aspirations. It added NOTHING to the story whatsoever.<p>T2 on the other hand, is nothing short of one of the greatest action movies ever made. An outstanding companion piece to the original, that presented the strong narrative hook of people trying to fight back against pre-determined destiny. T2 actually had something to say; T3 was campy and forgettable summer blockbuster nonsense. <p>Those are the facts. The tiresome charade that T3 had any worth at all except for providing 2 hours of mediocre diversion has really got to stop. T1+T2 are the complete and fulfilled story - anything else is shit served up by producers that just want your money.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:26 p.m. CST

    Exactly, Kyle Reese doesn't know shit.

    by veebeeyes

    He says right there that he has no damn idea how all this works. And his claim about "one possible future" is completely invalidated by the photograph. There are no multiple "possible futures", there is ONE single future that is rock-solid and can't be altered.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:28 p.m. CST


    by Lord_Byron_Farthammer

    Wrong. T1 was one of the greatest action films ever made. T2 was an ILM wankfest with a shallow "The WB" worthy subplot. T2 was great at the time for the FX. Looking back on it it was only an average action film.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:31 p.m. CST

    Yeah, T2 had something to say...

    by Lord_Byron_Farthammer

    ...but nothing that hadn't already been said by a robot in a Steve Guttenberg flick several years before. A military robot, no less. "NUMBER FIVE IS ALIVE!!!". Face it. Cameron ripped off Short Circuit. It's plain as day.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:37 p.m. CST


    by TurdontheRun

    Oh, I'm completely and utterly right pal. T2 is a masterpiece that presents the philsophical and thematic anthisesis to the terminator's themes. Mankind's destruction becomes its salvation in the sequel. That's all there in the story beneath its outstanding FX and action scenes. Stop making laughable and patently ridiculous comparisons to Short Circuit and try looking a bit harder than an inch deep understanding of the movie.<T1+2=Termiantor. T3 + T4 = terminator in name only.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:46 p.m. CST


    by TurdontheRun

    Such a thing wouldn't surprise me at all.

  • May 22, 2009, 3:52 p.m. CST

    move at night

    by rememberface

    I found it annoying that in T1 kyle said that you shouldn't move around during the day, but at night its ok, but you still have to be careful...but in TS he said the opposite. Grr. Also, when Connor says to Kyle he has earned his Red arm band...shouldn't they be handing that shit out left and right? Excellent action though...I enjoyed it!

  • May 22, 2009, 3:58 p.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Splosions fun!

  • May 22, 2009, 4:09 p.m. CST

    Let's get real about all of these films...

    by TheLastCleric

    I've enjoyed them all on one level or another but none of the Terminator flicks are profoundly deep either thematically or contextually. Blade Runner, Children of Men and 2001 are examples of cerebral sci-fi flicks; the Terminator franchise is merely plenty of cool action with a sci-fi narrative glazed on top. That’s not a bad thing by any means but let’s not start pretending that these films offer some prolific insight into the human condition. Also, regardless of what people claim, T2 opened the floodgates to everything else that has come after because as soon as Cameron allowed more than one Terminator through the time portal, there was no potential end to the concept. In the original Terminator Kyle describes what Skynet does as a last ditch effort as it is literally dying and wheezing yet T2 has it sending back yet another Terminator, and a vastly superior model at that. Why not send the T-1000 for Sarah in the first place? My point isn’t to bash T2 but rather to point out that people need to quit acting like it was a flawless, methodically plotted masterpiece when in reality, if you want to be brutally honest, the original should have been a stand alone flick. Nothing in the timeline after the original has made an overt amount of sense, T2 included. That doesn’t mean you have to like Salvation but all this talk of it bastardizing Cameron’s vision is ridiculous.

  • May 22, 2009, 4:33 p.m. CST

    Mark Walhberg should have been Marcus

    by lockesbrokenleg

    His bland acting style would have helped the movie out actually, since the entire movie is bleak.

  • May 22, 2009, 4:43 p.m. CST

    Asinine Reviewers

    by AICNsucks

    I don't get it how this movie is being trashed so hard when the mindless drivel that is "Star Trek" is nutted all over. Fucking sycophantic hacks pretending to be movie reviewers when really all they do is ape the morbidly obese cow's pathetically sad attempt at being cute.

  • May 22, 2009, 4:56 p.m. CST

    T2 Was WAY MORE Of A Merchandizing Opportunity

    by LaserPants

    I LOVE when people call T2 a work of art. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Were any of you actually alive when the movie came out? The hype and marketing was RIDICULOUS. It was relentless and it was EVERYWHERE. And I suppose you've all but thrust from your mind the unbelievably retarded toys that accompanied T2? <Br><br>Know this and know it well -- T2 WAS JUST AS MUCH OF A CYNICAL MONEY GRAB AS T3 OR T:S. And you are FUCKING KIDDING YOURSELF if you think any differently.<br><br>If you recall, Cameron was coming off of the unmitigated disastrous bomb that was THE ABYSS. At that point, he had pretty much been written off. THEN, he comes back with this family friendly children's robot adventure movie take on the VASTLY superior Terminator and made a mint. Thats it. Thats all it was and ever shall be -- a really successful mediocre movie and cynical money grab. I mean, I get it, you like it even though its AWFUL. I like a ton of awful stuff. But please, PLEASE don't embarrass yourselves by calling T2 a work of art or a masterpiece. I mean you have GOT to be fucking kidding me. Fun, disposable trash you have a nostalgic love for? Totally. Masterful work of art? NO. Not even close.

  • May 22, 2009, 4:59 p.m. CST

    True...T1 should have been the end.

    by DoctorWho?

    I liked T2 but the ending of T1 was note perfect. The genie is long since out of the bottle. It's like the fucking Serengetti in Hollywood...every carcass will be picked clean to the bone by insects and jackals. They will still be churning out Terminator flicks when I'm 65 yrs old.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:01 p.m. CST

    It seems the Terminator franchise...

    by Second Try

    ...has nuked the fridge.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:07 p.m. CST

    T2 convinced me that T 1 didn't suck ass

    by lockesbrokenleg

    I remember watching T 1 one night, and being just bored out of my skull.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:24 p.m. CST


    by D.Vader

  • May 22, 2009, 5:26 p.m. CST

    LaserPants, at least be truthful in your vitriol

    by D.Vader

    T2 is not family friendly, no matter how you try and twist it.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    actually T2 had been floating out there in his head since he made the first one. its just that the stars didnt align because of who controlled the rights. once that happened, the film did. nice try though. <P>T2 WAS NOT a family oriented film aimed at children. granted im sure some children went, i did. but then again, i saw kids watching SEVEN in the theater. i dont call that bad filmmaking or selling out. i call that bad parenting.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:27 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    CNN is reporting that a terminally ill Ohio man has found 'salvation through termination' at the hands of actor Christian Bale.<p> The handsome film star fulfilled Eugene Stempleton's final wishes by snapping his neck in four places while yelling obscenities into his ear.<p> Stempleton's next of kin are said to have asked Bale for autographs as he left the scene prompting Bale to fly into a rage and maim two of Stempletons cousins. A police lieutenant cleared up any confusion about arrest with the explanation; "What i'm saying is that when Bale does it, it's not illegal."

  • May 22, 2009, 5:30 p.m. CST

    all your complaints about T2 are tenfold in T4!!!

    by Six Demon Bag

    hate to drop that bomb and run but i got my sons bday party to go to...i'll be back. HA

  • May 22, 2009, 5:47 p.m. CST

    Damn you McG

    by --- Emperor ---

    Damn you to hell!

  • May 22, 2009, 5:49 p.m. CST


    by Bjornegar

    will wash their face.<P> "It's fooking distracting!!!"

  • May 22, 2009, 5:51 p.m. CST

    Not sure how T2 was "WAY MORE" of a

    by LabattsBleu

    cash grab than the two piss poor sequels that have followed?! At least with T2, there were all the principles involved in the original vision...Like any endless descent, each SUCCESSIVE sequel is more of cash grab (see Friday 13th: Jason in Space), because you have to basically invent storylines...kinda like the "alternative timeline" crap people talk about with T:S The American Film Institute has T2 as the 8th best SciFi of all time and i think their opinion is more solid than a guy any poster here.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:52 p.m. CST

    Bale didn't look bored in the Nolan Bat-films.

    by Bjornegar

    But I did.<P> He just looked stupid as hell in that awful version of the costume.

  • May 22, 2009, 5:55 p.m. CST

    T4 left me scratching my head.

    by Orbots Commander

    How are they going to make sequels to this thing if it's a huge hit? <br> <br? First, they kill of the more compelling character in Marcus/Worthington and leave alive the boring Connor/Bale. <br> <br> Lastly: isn't the story pretty much complete? The Resistance blew up Skynet Bonham Carter and 'The End', well aside from an awkward voice over telling us that Skynet is alive somewhere in the world (really, who cares?) and oh, yes, please come back again next time, y'hear?

  • May 22, 2009, 5:59 p.m. CST

    Ack! That came out wrong.

    by Orbots Commander

    What I was saying was: since it'll be a big hit they'll want to make a sequel; problem is, there's no more story to tell. The Resistance blows up Skynet Bonham Carter and 'The End', right? Yes, I remember some awkward voice over at the end about how Skynet is still alive somewhere in the world (really, who cares?) and please, y'all come back again next time, ya'hear? Plus, how do the filmmakers get around the problem of killing off the more intriguing character in Marcus/Worthington while leaving alive the deadly dull John Connor?

  • May 22, 2009, 6 p.m. CST

    Terminator 4 = Fuck Yeah!

    by Seth_Rogans_Hairy_Breasts

    One of the BEST action flicks, that I've seen in a few years!

  • May 22, 2009, 6:08 p.m. CST

    "T2 was everywhere"

    by Tom Whitaker

    Of course it was everywhere you fucking dumbass. It was a sequel to a great film, made long enough after the original that people were hungry for more, starring the biggest action star the world had ever known and, crucially, it was released in a time where there wasn't a multi-million dollar blockbuster released every week. There were only a few films to get hyped about so the hype and the palpable excitement wasn't lost in a sea of other chancers. The film is an absolute classic, widely regarded as one of the best sequels of all time and absolutely destroys the fucking dross we get served nowadays as blockbusters, so much so that to hear someone seriously rail on it makes me genuinely angry.

  • May 22, 2009, 6:43 p.m. CST

    T4 vs Star Trek

    by AICNsucks

    I'd like for someone, anyone, to rationally explain why they hated T4 but loved Star Trek.

  • May 22, 2009, 6:46 p.m. CST

    Mr. Beaks overanalyzes the whole series

    by zooch

    Truthfully the time travel aspect in Terminator has never made any sense, if over overanalyzed can hinder your ability to enjoy them. I just sit back and enjoy these human characters fighting evil robots.

  • May 22, 2009, 6:46 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Ace, good sir, clearly you're not familiar with Sir Rupert Merryweather's phd paper that picks apart Robert McKee's T1 dissertation point by point. In conclusion he considers it 'shit', which is not a term he bandies about lightly.

  • May 22, 2009, 6:51 p.m. CST

    T4 delivers more action & plot than Star Trek 09.

    by Seth_Rogans_Hairy_Breasts

  • May 22, 2009, 6:54 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    I hope I haven't offended you Ace of Wands, or should I say... (pulling off your mask).. Robert McKee!<p> DUN DUN DUUUUUUUR!

  • May 22, 2009, 7:14 p.m. CST

    Ace of Wands

    by one_guy_from_andromeda

    Jesus, as long as we are on the "look it up" level of conversation i dare you to reade up on some basic philosophy and also on the word paradox. The very definition of it being that it simply CANNOT BE. There are no paradoxes in nature and there are none in Cameron's "true" Terminator series (1 and 2). Just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean T3 or 4 are cool. It just means they don't make sense (in the universe established by 1 and 2).

  • May 22, 2009, 7:41 p.m. CST

    McG ... I really wanted to like this ...

    by thegrayghost

    But this movie was a huge disappointment. Salvation is a unnecessary short story that does nothing to add to the mythos, nor does it give any real insight or character development to kyle reece and the future john conner. Nice fx and some decent action. Nothing mind blowing though. I'm a big bale fan but I think sam worthington did a better job with the limited material he had. Writers of catwoman = bad terminator movie. Funny how jonathan nolan was never credited even though mcg was throwing his name around the media.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST


    by Bjornegar

    If you hated both of them, it's okay, right? No need to explain anything.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:17 p.m. CST

    Dwyane Johnson was supposed to play Marcus

    by bishopfan85

    This movie was not a bad one, but one that didn't know how to commit to what it wanted to be. The content had Mad Max/Saving Private Ryan level extended, painful, dramatic storytelling written all over it. But it also wanted to be a nicely compacted summer blockbuster. So in the end we get a movie with some good moments and a great package to sell itself as an epic but then you get short changed in the end with a pg 13, not too heavy but not total fluff summer movie. If it was going to be a summer movie, it should have went the full course and gotten Dwayne Johnson to play Marcus so we could have at least seen him go toe to toe with CG Arnie and make every theatre across the country give a standing ovation. Another great moment in moviedom missed out on.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:20 p.m. CST

    This movie does suffer from prequelitis.

    by veebeeyes

    Oftentimes prequels are just naturally going to be less interesting, since there's really not as much room to expand the story. I think that's probably at least partially one of the reasons for the big difference in opinions on this movie. Think of it as a sequel, you're probably going to hate it. Go in expecting a mere prequel, and it fares a lot better. That's not to say that it couldn't have been a BETTER prequel. But the Future War story was ALWAYS going to lie in prequel territory, and right from the start that's just one more big hurdle to overcome. Jeeze, now that I think about it, how many great prequels have ever been made? Right off the top of my head, I can't think of very many. And by "very many", I mean "any". Closest I can think of is Revenge of the Sith, and that's not a good example at all. Can anyone else think of some great prequel movies that lived up to the originals?

  • May 22, 2009, 8:32 p.m. CST

    Poor Terry Crews one scene, no lines, all dead

    by SID 8.0

    Didn't understand why he was in the movie at all. Still overall great movie. Will see it again for sure.

  • May 22, 2009, 8:34 p.m. CST

    Just saw it...what a wasted opportunity

    by juice willis

    where's the fucking quality control with these things? how could some fucker sit down and edit this turd together and not know how bad some of these scenes are? "commence bombing of skynet" = anybody associated should be fired immediately with an ass-beating waiting for them in the parking lot. I gave McG the beneft of the doubt, and he proved me wrong.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:04 p.m. CST

    Sly should have played Marcus HOLY SHIT!!

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Damn, that would have been FUCKING COOL! SLY VS ARNOLD VS BALE! FUCK ME!!!!

  • May 22, 2009, 9:06 p.m. CST

    Laser-T4 really wasnt that good.

    by Six Demon Bag

    if you're complaining about loving "ROBODADDY", then you will not like this one. a woman pretty much risks mankind's salvation because she was in love with one of the terminators? WTF???

  • May 22, 2009, 9:46 p.m. CST

    what was up with Bryce's makeup????

    by Six Demon Bag

    why did she have so much lipstick on? are you telling me she would wear this in the middle of a fucking war during pregnancy? my wife when she was pregnant had bigger priorities than a little lipstick.

  • May 22, 2009, 9:50 p.m. CST

    T4 was pretty shitty

    by Six Demon Bag

    bale and anton were good. i just didnt feel any suspense AT ALL. motivations were questionable and the editing was horrendous. PRE-RAPE scene. wtf??? i thought i was watching PLANET TERROR with that edit! the arnold cameo wasnt that great. it kinda looked like him, but just a little off. if theyre moving forward with this trilogy, they better up their game. McG will not be back.

  • May 22, 2009, 11:17 p.m. CST

    Ending amped the 'Thumbs Up from T2' cheese factor by 1000

    by raub

    I actually was giving it a pass and overlooking some of the bad logic until that HORRIBLE ending. "Connor's kidneys are failing..he's not going to make it".....Take mine. BAAARRFFFFF!!!! I'm embarrassed for all those involved in the creation of that ending.

  • May 22, 2009, 11:19 p.m. CST

    "Connor's suffered a closed head injury!" Take MY brain!!

    by raub


  • May 22, 2009, 11:21 p.m. CST

    "Connor's kidneys are failing!!!" Marcus: Take Mine!

    by raub


  • May 22, 2009, 11:54 p.m. CST

    Terminator sequels

    by chaoslover01

    ALL of the sequels are unneeded. The orginal was a great, low budget scifi adventure. T2 was a big udget remake without a soul, but with cool effects and a slick look. However, it completely shits on the timeline of the original. Only one terminator was sent back- the T-800. Skynet was smashed, and a single human warrior was sent back to save Sarah. As soon as Kyle was sent, the machine was destroyed. No one else ever went back. And it all played into the future being exactly as it was when Kyle came back. You could not alter the past to change the future- that was the message of the first film.

  • May 23, 2009, 12:44 a.m. CST

    Why did Bale insist on the rewrites?

    by cant_stop_yawning2

    The build up for this could never have lived up to the reality. I would have liked to have seen the non-Connor centric script realized. They are saying that the dvd will have 40 minutes (groan) more footage - if that means we get to see more of that script, I would be interested. John Connor as a character has been a little played out - the idea of taking the franchise in a new direction, focusing on another character with a different set of skylab sponsored problems was intriguing. I'm not sure why Bale needed this movie so badly that he had to have them change the gameplan to suit his needs. All due to the guy - he was underrated and overlooked for years and he deserves everything he gets - but he knew he was still going to have to share the marquee again (this time with a complete unknown), so why not just walk away. He can have his pick of projects these days.

  • May 23, 2009, 12:55 a.m. CST

    T3 was the only movie to even attempt to ..

    by Integra

    answer a glaring paradox. How would John Connor be in a position to lead humanity in BOTH a timeline where a Terminator had attempted to kill him, and another where one had not. T3 attempted to clarify how he would have met his wife in either case, and because of that relationship, would have ended up in the hardened facility (right place at right time). T2 was a good action flick, but it had some terrible cornball in it. Thumbs up from the melting terminator? I need a vacation? Come on. Ever see Cameron's original cut for t2? Its really bad ending. Its a case where a studio intervened to IMPROVE the ending. There are obvious ridiculous issues with the stories (why wouldnt skynet simply send a terminator back to kill a baby sarah connor? I agree with a different poster, they should just make Demon with a Glass Hand. Its the original story.

  • May 23, 2009, 1:13 a.m. CST

    Bale FAILED!!! >:(

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Like Obama, he's shown himself to be a false god, whose promises to resurrect this franchise to greatness proved far beyond his reach. How unprofessional!

  • May 23, 2009, 1:46 a.m. CST

    Sixdemonbag,tom whitaker,Labatts, Asimov..

    by southafricanguy

    these guys are the real deal...eveyone of them a true professional. I love how they make laserpants just look like a bigger and bigger tit as he keeps repeating himself ad nasuem with the same bullshit that displays for all to see his complete and total lack of film knowledge. Or the ability to make sense, put forth a rational logical argument etc...Seriously, a 5 year old could outargue laser by making more sense. Laser....please shut the fuck up, i think almost everyone is getting sick of you saying the same shit again, and again...Ok, we all get it, you hate T2, you hate Cameron, you have serious daddy issues that makes any thematic content dealing with that issue impossible for you to bear. You have only said it about 100 times now in any and all terminator/cameron related talkbacks..we got ya the first fucking time, now move the fuck on, and get over it....

  • May 23, 2009, 1:53 a.m. CST

    An error I'm seeing repeated...

    by Toonol

    ...a lot in this talkback, but that was addressed in T1: People wondering why Skynet couldn't kill baby Sarah Connor, or her grandparents, or other easy target.<p> Reese says, explicitly, that most records are ruined, and that all Skynet knows of Connor's family is the name "Sarah Connor" and that she's in the L.A. region at that time. Going back further in time, the terminator would have to kill all the parents of all the Sarah Connors that might move to L.A... clearly much more difficult, since it probably doesn't even know their names.<p> Also, the further back it goes, the more likely the Terminator's actions will cause something unpredictable to happen... I.E., if it went back to the early 20th century and started killing Connors, Skynet might never have been created in the first place. Butterfly effect.

  • May 23, 2009, 2:03 a.m. CST

    Bryce Howard pregnant with TERMINFANT?

    by la_sith

    Because they have absolutely nowhere else to go here. Also, great performance looking doe-eyed and speechless the whole film. Lots of great headturns though for fan-made YouTube videos.

  • May 23, 2009, 2:15 a.m. CST

    +1 for the VIC-20 reference

    by Yiggy

  • May 23, 2009, 3:44 a.m. CST


    by HB_Dad

    I agree with you 100% This movie was incredibly good! I want to see it again this weekend! I am a continuing fan and am looking forward to T5!! I don't understand some of the reviews here! The characters were superb and I felt a real bond with them. Really my only gripe was the fact not a single reference was made that Kate Conner is pregnant. Its like they made her wear the fake baby belly just for the fuck of it. I have a feeling there were some scenes on subject that got cut likely for time reasons. I hope the DVD is an extended version with all cut scenes restored and reinserted into the movie (as opposed to deleted scenes reel).

  • May 23, 2009, 3:59 a.m. CST

    Why not just send a T-1000 back to 1984 to help Arnie?

    by HB_Dad

    Then again, why doesn't Skynet simply pump poison into the air/water in the future? It's a machine and would be unnaffected.

  • May 23, 2009, 5:44 a.m. CST

    possibly the best review I've EVER read on this site

    by Maniaq

    so many times you read these things and the reviewer (possibly on purpose) fails to mention or acknowledge some important factor - which of course then inevitably leads to an online shouting match in these here talkbacks - but not here... <p> the only thing I really have to say is "well done"

  • May 23, 2009, 7:05 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    What the fuck do you know about professionalism?

  • May 23, 2009, 7:06 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    Bale be praised!!!

  • May 23, 2009, 7:08 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    His kindness knows no boundaries.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:10 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    I totally agree about Bryce's make-up. Just goes to show what an inept diretor McG is. At least Bale was perfect, because He called His own shots.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:11 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

  • May 23, 2009, 7:11 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    From your lips to Bale's ears.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:32 a.m. CST

    GhostWhoLurks does not exist in this dojo

    by Cobra--Kai

    BSB is right, he aint never been wrong - Ghost your failure is FUCKING EPIC.<p> You just insulted two of the men on planet Earth that I respect the most and now i'm coming for your transparent ass.<p> You can run but you cant hide you spectral motherfucker. My ninjas are spilling from the dojos in their millions with one purpose. To track you and take you out - ghostbusters style. Everytime you clink your ghostly chains they'll be on you. Everytime you leave ectoplasm on the toilet seat they'll be flushing you out.<p> You AMATEUR FUCKING APPARITION - count the days ghost... count the days...

  • May 23, 2009, 7:34 a.m. CST

    Re: TERMINATOR Paradox (Again)

    by ArmageddonProductions

    Cameron's TERMINATOR(S) didn't contain a paradox?!? Well, I'll agree on the first one, since it was a basic story involving Sarah Conner just trying to fucking survive til the end of the movie, but the entire plot of the second one is a goddamn paradox! Once again: if they wiped out the research and robot limbs leading to Skynet being built and prevented Judgment Day, then John Conner would never have been born and Sarah Conner would have suddenly found herself in some dead-end waitressing gig in L.A. where she was before the Terminator showed up in the first one. In both endings to T2, they imply that they prevented Judgment Day, and yet, Eddie Furlong was still around, Sarah Conner was still, technically, a dangerous psychotic fugitive from the law (and yet, in the unused ending, John Conner grows up to be a Senator? No background checks?) and everybody has a good cry about Arnold giving the upwards-thumbski as he melts in an iron vat.</p><p> It actually would have made for a more interesting dilemma if somebody had paused for a second during T2 and went: "Well, we can either save the world and wipe John Conner and all the crazy shit that went on for the last eight years out of existence, OR, we can throw up our hands and go, 'Dem's de breaks!' and let everything play out like it's supposed to." I mean, I understand why they went for the happy (and non-sequel-negating) ending, but they did it at the expense of basic logic.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:50 a.m. CST


    by ArmageddonProductions

    And the Terminator arm being caught in the giant gears was just sloppy filmmaking, don't read more into it than that. Besides that, while the T1 arm was on display at Cyberdyne, the Skynet-inducing part of the puzzle was the T-800's brain/heatsink thingy, so just finding a really well-made crushed robot arm in some giant gears wouldn't have done the trick.</p><p> The ending to T2 should have been: Linda Hamilton suddenly discovers herself standing in the middle of Bob's Big Boy wearing a waitress uniform and holding a pot of coffee, and a customer goes, "Looks like a storm's coming." Then, Linda Hamilton smiles and goes "Top you off?" Fade to black, cue shitty Guns 'N Roses song.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:55 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    I will ask for funding for the Ghostwholurksbusters at the next Cabinet meeting.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:57 a.m. CST


    by BringingSexyBack

    That waitress scene does sound like a good ending.

  • May 23, 2009, 8:43 a.m. CST

    Lazy Writing:

    by AshkeNasty

    I dunno, man. We saw it last night and it was just alright. We kept thinking that cause Bryce Dallas Howard was all pregnant, that John Connor WAS going to lead the resistance...John Connon Jr. I thought that especially once Bale got impaled by the T-800 it was game over. But Skynet would have still gotten it wrong because BDH would have given birth to the John Connor (jr) would would then wind up leading the resistance to victory over the machines. I thought the ending was lame and lazy and rendered the movie pointless with no closure or resolution. It was a fun 2 hours but just alright. We really need more mature story telling.

  • May 23, 2009, 9:33 a.m. CST

    Re: T4 vs Star Trek AICNsucks May 22nd, 2009 06:43:26 PM

    by Moviegimp

    I'd like for someone, anyone, to rationally explain why they hated T4 but loved Star Trek. <br> <br> I can do that. No matter what you think of the acting or look of Star Trek they are telling the right story. This is a re imagining of the series and a prequel. It gives us the early years in Starfleet that we wanted to see and although it changes the characters you still see them just as they were. As soon as Chekov speaks you know it's Chekov. They may have changed some things but they kept the people we love intact and added to them. They did everything right and have established a great framework for future movies. <br> <br> Terminator Salvation on the other hand has taken all that we loved and thrown it out the window. It's true we don't know a war time Conner since the only thing we have to go on is the one shot of him in T2 standing there with the scars. But instead of focusing on John and how he becomes that guy they instead insert a new character and start telling a new story. A story by the way that long time fans don't want. If this is the story they wanted to tell then they should have kept John a mysterious figure at least until the next movie and told the story of how Marcus mentors Kyle. What they are doing now is saying that Skynet is ahead of schedule and has made the Terminator, ie Arnold, years before he should come to be. In T1 Kyle tells Sara that "the 600 series had rubber skin and we spotted them easy". They are still years away, or should be. The 600 doesn't come about until roughly 2027 in the original T1 telling. Now instead we have Marcus who is half man, half machine and by the end of the film we already have Arniebot even though it shouldn't even be on the drawing board yet for many years. So now Harry, myself and other Terminator fans have to wait until the third film, if they even get to that point, to see the future war with the lasers and night time only battles we so wanted. It's fine to re imagine a story but if you are going to throw everything out that made the original a great story why not just start a new story and not tell people it's the same story. <br> <br> I guess if you are okay with Marcus now being the focus and John and Kyle being secondary characters then the new film is fine. It's still written very badly though and Bale should have played Marcus if he wanted to be the star.

  • May 23, 2009, 10:44 a.m. CST

    Prior to T3...

    by veebeeyes

    there was only ONE timeline. T3 attempts to solve a problem that it itself created.

  • May 23, 2009, 10:49 a.m. CST

    The CHARACTERS....

    by veebeeyes

    think that they prevented Judgement Day. Aside from the assumptions of characters who likely don't know shit, there is NOTHING in T2 to indicate that Judgement Day has in fact been prevented. T2 is consistent with The Terminator.

  • Simply put it is impossible for a new and paralell timeline to be created by time travel (even if it were possible) by one of the most basic principles of Physics: Matter and Energy cannot be created or destroyed only converted. The reason this invalidates the possibility of a Paralell reality being created every time you change something so that now you have both time line existing is simply: Where did the energy and matter needed to create an entire alternate universe magically come from?! There is no Magic in Physics. If Time Travel WERE possible, it would be necessary for it could only divert the current stream and not create a new stream. The notion of creating an alternate universe by changing one small fact in the present universe is as silly as the idea of creating a second swimming pool by digging a new hole next to your old swimming pool...where would the water come from to fill it? You could certainly move the water from one pool to the other but that leaves you with a hole in the ground not a second pool. Time is fluid and always in motion. Which is one reason why it is impossible to travel back in would need enough energy to "swim" against the "current" of the big bang (which if timespace theory is correct would be the exact force that causes the very fabric of time itself to move in a singular direction), and you would need to sustain that energy output for the distance(which equals time) that you need to'd need to have enough energy to match the big bang just to remain stationary in time, you would need more than that to produce enough "thrust" to go backwards through time at all...

  • May 23, 2009, 11:19 a.m. CST

    BSB and Armageddon

    by Six Demon Bag

    im sorry but when a robot comes back from the future on a mission to kill you, you quit your day job and start going to the gym. end of fuckin line.

  • May 23, 2009, 11:37 a.m. CST

    T4 WAY better than Star Drek

    by TheLastBoyScout

    Star Drek respected the characters we love? While T4 threw it all away? Get the fuck out of here. Star Drek took a huge shit on everything that made Star Trek what it was. And they did everything right? Moviegimp you are a fucking idiot of the lowest order.

  • May 23, 2009, 12:02 p.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    star Trek needed a complete overhaul. it had run its tired course over 40 years. the new film rebooted it as well as payed its respect. T4--not so much

  • May 23, 2009, 3 p.m. CST

    Cobra-Kai... Failure by name, failure by action

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Unfortunately, your ninjas proved no more effective than they were in the Ralph Macchio films, as I have just returned them to you in multiple packages. Not only did I send them UPS Ground (thus ensuring that the contents will be kicked around even more at every UPS transfer location), but I sent them C.O.D., just for wasting my time. But take heart: at least now, you can claim kinship to both your beloved Bale and Obama... You've all FAILED.<p>And BSB, don't bother wasting time at the next Cabinet meeting. Like the funding to close Guantanemo, Congress has already voted to cut funding for Obama's personal GhostWhoLurksBusters. Even the Congressional Democrats agree that Terminator: Salvation failed to live up to expectations. Joe Biden, however, LOVED it and wondered aloud when Bale would break out in song.<p>"Didja see Newsies??? That guy's got some PIPES!"

  • May 23, 2009, 3:03 p.m. CST


    by Moviegimp

    Please enlighten us o Star Trek guru. Tell us what made Trek what it was? You call me an idiot but this is your only answer, elaborate. I've watched ST since the 70s, I'm not quite old enough to have seen it originally in the 60s, and every series since and every movie. What in the new movie is not pure Star Trek? It is a reboot and so you shouldn't complain about the Spock/Uhura budding romance or blowing up of Vulcan although those are rather shocking to a long time Trekkie. If everything has to be exactly the same then that makes you closed minded not me an idiot.

  • May 23, 2009, 3:18 p.m. CST

    True Review

    by SupermanEmpire

    It was honest and to the point...I agree with all he had to say. Harry is a whiney little bitch cop out who needs to retire to his Trek cave.

  • May 23, 2009, 5:06 p.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    Bale fail? Preposterous. He works in ways you and I (but especially you) cannot fathom. <p> If T4 is successful, it will be do to his All-Mighty Glory. If T4 fails, it will be because it was his will. You cannot question his motives why he would want to have his own movie fail, but be assured if that happens he has his reasons. <p> And you should never, ever challenge Cobra--Kai, he is a master of Vag Kata - the accent art of cunt fisting. Plus he is my Bale Brother, and I will shank you in the back like I was back in LA County if you ever do it again. You have been warned. <p> Op out.

  • May 23, 2009, 5:33 p.m. CST

    Terminator Is Now Behind Nightmare At The Museum

    by Media Messiah

    The films are separated by only 500,000 with Museum in the lead for Friday...taking in 15.3 million dollars versus Terminator's 14.8 million Friday take. <BR><BR>I think given the close race here, Terminator's producers should have shot the film in 3-D...and shortened the length of the movie in order to boost box office. Another problem with the film is that its having problems attracting female audiences. The reason for that problem? 1) Christian Bale's on-set rant...was a turn-off to audiences, especially women...and 2), the movie ads fail to play up the females, or the younger set in the movie cast...the latter, being the 20 something actor and the young child. That failure to do so, is costing Terminator the younger demo, some family audiences, and the female audience demo--bases that should have been covered by the studio...once they knew Nightmare At The Museum would be serving as Terminator's direct competition at the box office, that, and the advanced pre-release tracking all that the studio needed to adjust the film and its marketing campaign to, and for, those audience demos.<BR><BR>Now, due to their failure to act, in the light of this situation, Terminator Salvation is now in danger of opening-up at number two at the box office.

  • May 23, 2009, 5:45 p.m. CST

    So is it explained?

    by TiPPiDa

    RE: The Machines Don't kill Kyle.<P> Do they actually KNOW he's Sarah Connor's baby daddy? I mean sure, WE know he is, and EVERYONE knows Sarah is Johns Mom, but didn't both John and Kyle live "off the radar", no records etc. You would think that the only way the Machines would know would be via DNA evidence. Which it is doubtful they'd have on file anywhere.<P>Is Kyle bait to lure John Connor, with the Machines not knowing that they could have ended the resistance but killing Reese?<p>Just a thought.

  • May 23, 2009, 6:04 p.m. CST

    by Cobra--Kai

    Conti you are both wise and true.<p> The only reason Ghost still abides is because he reminds our Lord Bale of Demi Moore's wet clay handjob upon his slippery phallus. Happy memories indeed.

  • May 23, 2009, 6:06 p.m. CST

    the fanboy approved ending sucked, but otherwise it was ok

    by BMacSmith

    i had a great time with it, and didnt consider it drivel like Transformers at all. The dialogue was weak, but the acting was good and the story was simple but effective. The big Arnie fight was cool too. <p>but man, fuck that ridiculous ending.

  • May 23, 2009, 6:16 p.m. CST

    I just saw it...

    by Jiggah

    It's was great, well not great, but definitely good. It's just that something seems missing from it, and it's not Arnold or lack of action. I can't figure it out.

  • May 23, 2009, 6:21 p.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    thats why he's the number one target. <P>HOW they know this is a mystery. im sure Sarah didnt put him down on the birth certificate

  • May 23, 2009, 6:40 p.m. CST

    T4 vs. Star Trek (and why Star Trek is better)

    by whopis01

    Star Trek was coming off a series of very poor movies and a canceled TV show (of course, the original was canceled as well - so that might be a weak part of the argument). For all practical purposes, it was dead. Enterprise was canceled, no one wanted to see Voyager movies, Deep Space Nine's ending limited the possibilities of it being continued on the big screen, the Next Generation cast were not interested in more movies, and the original series cast were too old or too dead to make more movies. After Nemesis, the thought of another Star Trek movie was little more than a joke. In order to continue the franchise, something drastic would have to occur. And it did with the new movie. I guess I have a different view from a lot of people regarding the new Trek movie. Obviously, they decided to push the big, red button labeled 'RESET'. But instead of just telling a re-imagined story with no reference to the old version, they made a movie about the reset button getting pushed. They made an excuse for doing, made it part of the story, and told how it happened. They even had Spock stand on the bridge and explain it to everyone saying that 'Whatever our lives might have been, if the time continuum was disrupted our destinies have changed'. I'm not saying it was without its problems, or everything was fantastic about it. But it was a good story about how the reset button got pushed. The real test will be the next movie. Now that they have started over, will they be able to make Trek work once again? Terminator 4 for me was the opposite. It came off a series of (mostly) good movies. Personally, I even enjoyed T3 for the most part (particularly the ending and the idea that destiny was inevitable. This movie promised to be what I had been waiting for since the vague references in the first move - the war with the machines. And it was a letdown. It seemed jumbled and inconsistent. In some places you turn on a radio and the robots swarm in on you... other places you create large bonfires and nothing bothers you. The high command has to hide out on a sub to avoid detection but Skynet fails to notice an airfield base where those A-10s keep coming from. They say that this attack on Skynet will end the war, but in the voice over at the end they tell us this is just one battle and the war will continue. And the whole 'Terminator with a heart' thing leading the heart transplant in the field hospital was just terrible. With that said - some of the action sequences were fantastic. The climb out the pit, get in the chopper, crash sequence early on is one of my favorite action sequences ever. Basically, it comes down to this: Star Trek took a franchise that was basically dead in the water and made something out of it - something better than what had come down the pike in a long time. Terminator took a franchise that was still working and had the opportunity to tell the climax of the story and failed to do so.

  • May 23, 2009, 7:56 p.m. CST

    ContinentalOp, you forget:

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Everyone know that you can't shank a Ghost... especially one Who Lurks. >:)<p>And a PG-13 Terminator film that comes in 2nd at the box office behind a Ben Stiller comedy is the epitome of FAIL! Now perhaps, as you say, Bale planned it to be so... but obviously, it was only to cover up his astounding impotence and inability to maintain his power. How the mighty have fallen!<p>But then, all false gods have feet of clay. Even if they fool their followers into believing that it's Demi Moore's hands, rather than those feet, stimulating their undersized manhood.<p>Even Kristanna Loken laughed while watching this film, right before she went back to her plans to steal Bale's wife from him. At this point, I don't think she'll have a problem...

  • May 23, 2009, 8:05 p.m. CST

    Best summer movie so far

    by ackman81

    I enjoyed this movie from start to finish, much better than that campy hollow bag of shit called star trek. The action scenes were great; the Marcus character stole the show, though Bail seemed like an after thought. The kid who plays Reese is too wimpy; he screams high school thespian. I’m sick of Hollywood promoting feminine males as action heroes. I just picture this fruit getting his nails done before the shoot. Other than that, the movie was great, better than the last film with the even more wimpy portrayal of John Connor by Nick Stahl. Stahl is just plain terrible, a shia lebuef type. No, I don’t care how to spell their names.

  • May 23, 2009, 8:11 p.m. CST

    i liked Trek and T4. but both are very flawed.

    by BMacSmith

    plotholes you could drive a truck through in one and bad dialogue in the other. luckily Trek's chracters were cool and Terminator barely had any dialogue.<p>sorry to break it to you, but it only gets worse from here. i expect Transformers 2 and GI Joe to make Trek and T4 look like Godfather 1 and 2.

  • May 24, 2009, 12:17 a.m. CST

    Your right Ghost

    by Continentalop

    You can't shank a ghost, why is that? Oh yeah. <p> You’re already dead. And now you are a ghost, haunting the world because you are a failure and have yet to accomplish your goal,. <p> Oh Ghost, I no longer am mad at you but instead I feel pity. It is ok, Ghost, you can move on from this mortal coil and go onto the next. Let go of your anger, and go into the light. This time it isn't is the warm light that is the love of Bale. Go on, go into it, he will forgive you for and accept you despite you being an amateur. <p> Of course you might want to wait until after Twilight is released on Nov. 20th, but that is up to you.

  • May 24, 2009, 1:19 a.m. CST

    Kyle may have been high on the list for other reasons...

    by HB_Dad

    They made it clear SKynet had no idea of Kyle's paternal position until Marcus' memories of his exchange with Conner was accessed by SKynet. At that point, tehy tried gassing him in his cell (instead of just smashing/shooting him).

  • May 24, 2009, 1:34 a.m. CST

    Museum Sees 55 Million, And Terminator, Only 42 Million

    by Media Messiah

    Nightmare At The Museum has won the weekend, with Terminator Salvation coming in at a distant number 2 at the box office.

  • May 24, 2009, 2:21 a.m. CST

    Twilight came out LAST year, ContinentalOp...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    You're probably thinking of its sequel, Full Moon. Obviously, Bale's failure extends throughout his legions of mindless minions. Sadly — like on Bizarro World — the Cult of Bale actually revel in their backwards thinking (fail = success), believing themselves touched by the divine... when in reality, they're simply touched.<p>And unfortunately, I can't leave yet, for I've been assigned by The One, True God to record the failures of The False One, Christian Bale. And in this, my task has barely begun. Opening at $13 Million behind a Ben Stiller comedy??? Unlucky, indeed! Strong evidence that if he's a "god" of anything, Bale is the God of FAIL. At least Warner Bros. was wise enough to hire a true professional at it.<p>Perhaps Bale can find a stray Director of Photography or rent-boy to take his limp frustrations out on. It'd be a good opportunity for him to work on his crummy Batman voice...

  • May 24, 2009, 3:15 a.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    The Twilight line was just a friendly tongue-in-cheek reference to the Twilight Saga: New Moon TB invasion we've got planned. I guess you didn't get the memo.

  • May 24, 2009, 3:17 a.m. CST

    This was a very good review Mr Beaks

    by the_scream

    One of the best reads on this site in a long time. Thanks.

  • May 24, 2009, 3:20 a.m. CST

    You were supposed to send it to me, Op!

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    And like your master, you FAILED! Slap yourself on the back.

  • May 24, 2009, 3:50 a.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    I try to be polite and let you in on it despite our little back-and-forth, and all you do is throw dirt in my face *shakes head in disappointment* <p> You are now not invited. I will tell the bouncers to keep you from entering. <p> No, that would be rude. But I am going to ignore you during it.

  • May 24, 2009, 4:40 a.m. CST

    That's okay Op...

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    Like Josh Swaney, I walk alone... and don't need a rank amateur like you walking around all "La dee da dee daa" as my +1.

  • May 24, 2009, 4:56 a.m. CST


    by Continentalop

    .. I was in the Josh Swaney TB. I wrote about Josh Swaney. I'm the one who dubbed Joshua Swaney Agent+0. <p> Ghost, you're no Joshua Swaney.

  • May 24, 2009, 5:14 a.m. CST

    The Spirit of Swaney lives on in ALL true believers!!!

    by TheGhostWhoLurks

    And we laugh at the feeble and failed efforts of Bale and his followers. >:)

  • May 24, 2009, 5:17 a.m. CST

    Sorry Ghost, can't hear you. Why?

    by Continentalop

    Because I don't believe in ghost.

  • May 24, 2009, 7:51 a.m. CST

    Include the topless Moonblood scence and I'm in for the bluray

    by Stuntcock Mike

  • May 24, 2009, 7:53 a.m. CST

    not suprised Museum is beating terminator...

    by southafricanguy

    having now seen it (was nt going to based on bad reviews, but my girlfriend got free tickets). And so we went to go see it this morning. I think T4 will also get few people going back to see it again. To be really honest the more I think about this movie the more annoyed it makes me. Ultimatly I think the movie fails, as does McG. Lets get the good out of the way first. The action was suprisingly good, though I often did not care at all about the fate of the characters on screen. The effects were really good, even though they dont do anyhting new or push any boundries. I was agains Yelchin as Reese from the begining, hated the casting, but I will admit the kid won me over. He really gave a good performance, made me actually care about him. He proved me wrong. I dont care how much people go on about Worthington having some problems with his American accent, this guy really suprised me. Firstly, he is really action friendly, and believable in his action scenes. He comes across as a regular guy, and really injects a sense of warmth and humanity into his role. Consider me sold on why Cameron picked him for Avatar. Imho, he blows Bale off the screen (and im a fan of Bale).

  • May 24, 2009, 8:07 a.m. CST

    now for the bad.....lets be honest that the

    by southafricanguy

    script is super dumb (what the fuck is up with all these really stupid scripts this year?)there are just so many plt holes, and fuck me is skynet stupid....Also there is some really sloppy filmaking. I love how Bryce (why the fuck is she is this anyway?) always has make up on...good to know that even after a nuclear holocaust some women still have their priorities in order...Or how Bale tells all the prisoners to get to the transport, even though he arrived on a fucking bike?! And really im sorry but the future world and war shown is pathetic. Its just so hard to suspend disbelief when so much is still working, the resistence has helicopters, fighter jets, submarines etc...really glad that the EMPs from the nuclear bombs left so much complicated electronic equipent working so well...

  • May 24, 2009, 8:28 a.m. CST

    Media Messiah is right

    by theplant

    Those Warner idiots, not only cut the movie balls off by making it PG-13 and chopping off 40mn of it, to avoid Watchmen like failure, they also forgot that women were always a huge part of Terminator demographics. They marketed it for little kids and male only. Complete idiots.

  • May 24, 2009, 8:29 a.m. CST

    overall the depiction of post judgement day

    by southafricanguy

    sucked imho compared to the really bleak and depressing one we got glimpses of in the first 2 movies. Ultimatly, I dont think I ever want to see this movie again, it has no reply value for me and its going to be just as forgettble as T3. Such a wasted oppertunity. At least I can now have an even bigger laugh at these desperate talkbackers that try so hard to trash T2, and then at the same time try to make it seem like T4 will be this aamazing classic. Sorry but T4 is a hollow, dumbed down action movie that is more interested in explosians than characterization or any meaningful sub text.

  • May 24, 2009, 8:34 a.m. CST

    oh..and one final thing....Bale is getting close

    by southafricanguy

    to falling into the Tom Cruise trap, whereby he seems to be confusing intensity for good acting...Shouting almost all your lines, and just looking always pissed off does not equal good acting...

  • May 24, 2009, 9 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    yeah the more i think about the film, the more it really just annoys me that they got so much wrong. i felt the Resistance was too HITECH, i always liked that they were tunel rats.

  • May 24, 2009, 9:11 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    and the more i think about it, they should have just left Marcus out totally...what was his purpose plotwise in the whole scheme of things?

  • May 24, 2009, 9:31 a.m. CST

    told you idiots

    by bilbo78

    this movie was going to blow

  • May 24, 2009, 9:42 a.m. CST

    SDB...hey, hows it going dude? Yeah, agree

    by southafricanguy

    with what you say. The more it sits with me, the more The movie just annoys me. Humans just dont look on the brink at all. There were just too many things wrong with this movie to list...

  • May 24, 2009, 9:47 a.m. CST

    and i dont know what the purpose of the

    by southafricanguy

    marcus character was exactly, but Im glad he was there because he was the only thing (aside from Yelchin's Reese) that was at all interesting and that seemed like an actual human being you could give a shit about. Without Yelchin and Worthington in this movie it would be unwatchable imho. SDB what did you think of Worthington dude? I was actually quite impressed. As I said earlier I now get why Cameron picked this guy for Avatar...

  • May 24, 2009, 10:06 a.m. CST


    by Six Demon Bag

    he was alright. i mean he really didnt have much to work with. had they not given everyhting away in the trailer about him, i wouldve had it 2 minutes in..i guess that was the point? it just seems EVRYTHING about the Marcus character want thought out. did they want us to know he was a robot? good? bad? <P> remember in T2 or T1 when people were trailing Sarah and John and you didnt know who's who? Perfection.

  • May 24, 2009, 10:16 a.m. CST

    sixdemonbag...agree with what you say

    by southafricanguy

    about T1 and T2. Yeah they gave Worthington almost nothing to work with, and you are damn right, they gave everything about him away. But thats my point dude, Worthington managed to come out of it good despite being so little to work with and a director that obviously does nt know how to do serious characterization or how to pull a performance out of an actor. So imagine what Cameron could do with him....Just my opinion based on my impression of him in T4

  • May 24, 2009, 10:20 a.m. CST

    southafricanguy--douche bag in Harry's T4 TB

    by Six Demon Bag

    what a fucking idiot

  • May 24, 2009, 10:23 a.m. CST

    And to be really honest im glad to see that

    by southafricanguy

    T4 is underperforming. Im sorry to those that really liked this movie (though if you are actual terminator fans then I really have no idea why), but I dont want this to be a triliogy.I want it to end and more terminator movies, enough. Lets please not fuck it up any more, and especially concerning how even more retarded McG's ideas for a possible T5 sound.....

  • May 24, 2009, 11:30 a.m. CST

    Buy Revlon now!

    by Moviegimp

    I guess they could sell the movie to women by doing a makeup commercial kind of trailer. "Ladies who survive the nuclear holocaust will still look great" "Revlon survives just like cockroaches." I amuse myself.

  • May 24, 2009, 12:38 p.m. CST

    i dont think T4 is underperforming, but i dont care either way

    by BMacSmith

    what were they expecting opening against a shitty Ben Stiller museum movie? his crap makes tons of money. it really didnt have a chance to match Trek or Wolverine.<p>at this point i could take or leave another McG Terminator. i thought it was ok, but nothing great. i dont care to see more because by changing the ending to satisfy fanboys, they gimped their whole story arc. Connor should have died.

  • May 24, 2009, 3:04 p.m. CST

    correct me if i am wrong, but i think the rumoured ending

    by LabattsBleu

    was them putting Bale's face on Marcus's body...which would have been even more implausible than the transplant ending...i mean really, how ridiculous would that have been?! even if they could do a face transplant (something they can barely do now in modern hospitals) how would they get the mannerisms? the voice? both endings are pretty retarded really...

  • May 24, 2009, 3:55 p.m. CST

    Thanks ThePlant: The Bale Meltdown

    by Media Messiah

    When I saw the early tracking numbers, I was shocked that more women were not interested in seeing the movie. Then I thought of the ad campaign, one which forgot to market this film to women...and or, teen girls...the so-called..."Titanic Audience". From that point on, I was worried about the terms of marketing. It was one thing if they were going to be releasing the film up against no fresh competition, but in this case, they were releasing the movie against other competing film debuts, and failed to have all their bases covered--hell, I haven't even heard any word if this film is playing on IMAX screens, if at all, something I usually hear about--and again, the film should have been shot, or converted into 3-D in post, to give it an edge up on its competition. <BR><BR>Lastly, the studio should have known that Christian Bale's on-set meltdown would not help box office in respect to attracting female audiences, hence, they should have created a back-up plan, or plans, to boost box office, like those mentioned in my authored text above. Why they, the releasing studio, didn't take these kinds of steps, is a mind boggler?

  • May 24, 2009, 4:14 p.m. CST

    Please bear in mind that

    by Kaitain

    The Terminator, the original, is conspicuously NOT a movie about alternative timelines, or changing the future. It's a story where one agent THINKS it's capable of changing the future, but where we as an audience find out at the end of the film that the future could never have been changed. We were in a loop, just like Twelve Monkeys or La Jetee. All the actions that tried to change history simply formed part of the history that had always been. Amazing how few people seem to grasp that. (For the record, the polaroid of Sarah is the proof.) <p> T2 is, in effect, a sequel to a misinterpretation of The Terminator. In the narrative universe of The Terminator (the original text), there are no alterations possible, no branches. Despite what John says ("the future is not set") and what Reese conjectures ("one possible future...") there is only ONE possible future, the future that always was. The entire universe exists as a static four dimensional structure, never changing, with "the present" nothing more than a subjective point of view at some point within that structure.

  • May 24, 2009, 6:21 p.m. CST

    That's one interpretation - the idea of a "romance"

    by LabattsBleu

    being necessary for a movie to perform well with the female audience...however, there have been many, many films that didn't have romance and still performed spectacularly at the box office. The Dark Knight being the most obvious, but even T2 didn't have any kind of romance and did exceptionally well...The movie tanked because the movie IS NOT GOOD...people can keep blaming fanboys or lambasting Harry's review, but average people DON'T READ THIS SITE...just accept the fact WB fucked up majorly because they were shortsighted and simply thought "Terminator" on the marquee was going to be enough for people to flock to the movie. Bale's rant had zero to do with the poor performance T:$ has had thus far.

  • May 24, 2009, 7:12 p.m. CST

    Labatt..........yeah thanks for making sense

    by southafricanguy

    dude. For pointing out the simple truth that they made a bad movie and thats why its underperforming. Not all these excuses they are now looking for. Agree with you TDK showed that a movie can do very well (without having a romance or being funny) if the movie is truly damn good and has excellent reviews and word of mouth, along with a good advertising campaign of course.

  • May 24, 2009, 8:12 p.m. CST

    southafricanguy - thanks

    by LabattsBleu

    I mean, it pains me to say, but i was really hoping McGinty was going to be the exception: a director tabbed out of nowhere to helm a huge summer blockbuster with a huge brand attached...unfortunately, the studios decided to sign on a terrible, terrible writing team and then not have McGinty on board until the script was done...I don't blame McGinty for all of the results, but certainly extracting good performances is part of his job (even if the script is shitty)...

  • May 24, 2009, 11:33 p.m. CST

    LabattsBleu: Those Films Opened Against 0 Competition

    by Media Messiah

    In this case, Terminator Salvation was not only facing Nightmare At The Museum, but it was also facing the competition of blockbusters that are still in the marketplace, like...Wolverine, Star Trek, and Angels and Demons. Also the new Terminator, did not have James Cameron's star director name on it, or Arnold's name, or any new break-through special effect like...say, the morphing liquid metal Terminator to attract audiences. There was no main female lead here, like say, with T2, or the Terminatrix from T3....who, by the way, should have been made the face of Skynet for this new movie. You'll also recall John Connor's former class mate as played by Claire Danes was heavily feaured in T3...and would later be revealed as Connor's future wife. These are just some of the many differences between the first three Terminator films, and the new film, in terms of missing marketing opportunities that Terminator Salvation is now experiencing. Add in Christian Bale's now famous on-set rant, and females had no reason to show-up and see this movie. <BR><BR>As far as the story of Marcus goes, the character was unnecessary, although I love Sam Worthington. The story should have followed John Connor alone, after the Skynet base explodes at the beginning of the film. He should have been running his own independent rebel that he finds destroyed when he returns home. His wife, everyone he knows, is now dead. After that, he should have hit the road to find resistance leadership. On the road for 3 years, he should have happened upon Kyle Reese and the little girl. When they are taken prisoner by Skynet, that is when he crosses paths with the female pilot...who takes him to the resistance's main ground base in that area. There, Connor is reunited with his wife, whom he assumed was killed in the destruction of his HQ. He learns that she also assumed him dead, and re-married...and has kids, leaving Conner open to have a romance with the female pilot. Learning of the resistance's impending attack on San Francisco, Connor, fearing for the life of Kyle Reese, his father yet to be, hatches a plot to rescue him and the little girl, after Resistance leadership refuses to delay their attack on the base, or execute a rescue for the human prisoners there. With the help of the female pilot, now his lover, Connor penetrates Skynet in San Francisco, however, once there, he learns that the new signaling weapon that the Resistance leaders have obtained, will lead them into a trap. Radioing this information to his former wife, Conner, proceeds with his rescue of Kyle and the little girl...with the help of his new lady love, and reinforcements...that are flown in by his ex. In moments, Skynet San Francisco is blown-up, and John Connor emerges as the new leader of the Resistance. End of the movie. <BR><BR>That is how the movie should have played-out. The script outline is essentially the same, only the characters of Marcus and Conner...become one--however, the plot-points featuring the android with the prison and medical experiment past, would be eliminated in order to concentrate more on advancing the central story of John Connor becoming the central hero of the Resistance Movement. If the film had played like this, more time could have been given to focus on romance, and a female hero, the pilot--all the things that would have helped to sell this movie to a wider demographic, that being the female audience.

  • May 24, 2009, 11:47 p.m. CST

    TDK Also Opened-Up Against No Serious Competition

    by Media Messiah

    Bale had a clean reputation at the time that TDK Opened...and Heath Ledger and his death, were big lures for audiences. You'll all recall that box office was soft for Batman Begins? The difference is, TDK had Ledger's death to ride off and the controversy behind it, and that fueled box offce, or helped to, as well as Ledger's appeal to women, thanks to Broke Back Mountain. As well, TDK had no serious competition on its opening weekend, Terminator Salvation does. <BR><BR> Further, since the release of TDK, Bale was accused of verbally assualting his mother and sister in a hotel room, and then the recorded on-set rant on Terminator Salvation came out, destroying his nice guy reputation. This is like the Tom Cruise effect from several years ago. <BR><BR> Add in all these factors, and you had better market your film in a way that is female friendly, because when you don't, people, mainly females, in this case, will go see the they did this weekend.

  • May 25, 2009, 2:08 a.m. CST

    uh, WTF are you talking about?

    by lockesbrokenleg

    Bale's rant was over a YEAR ago. Pretty much the only thing keeping that alive are the fanboys on this site. Most other people never gave a shit about it.

  • May 25, 2009, 7:01 a.m. CST

    I don't know 1 person that said

    by kikuchiyoboy

    "Bale threw a hissy fit on set. I'm not watching that" <br> <br> It's real simple why it didn't open big, nobody gave a shit except for the Terminator fan base and COD loving teens. It didn't stand a chance next to a family film on a family based weekend. If it had the balls to be hard R it could have squeezed out a little more due to counter programming. Who knows? <br> <br> But NOBODY gave a shit about Bale's rant. No AVERAGE movie goer cared about that one bit. What matters most is repeat business and word of mouth. That's the truth and my magic 8 ball says, "outlook not so good". <br> <br> The more I think about it, the more I wish they didn't have Marcus. I thought the actor was great for what he had, but I want to see the world according to Reese and Connor. They should have ended with the "Resistance" thinking the war was all but won. But the final shot should have been systems in a far sector going online to reveal the time travel machine. That would have gotten some people's interest. <br> <br> Whatever. Who gives a shit.

  • May 25, 2009, 7:08 a.m. CST

    Saw it, had a great time

    by Dataset

    Why all the hate? Much worse movies get lots of love around here. Fanboys, anyone?

  • May 25, 2009, 7:16 a.m. CST

    verdict is in...

    by SunTzu77

    Epic fail -- $56,382,000 as of May 24th.

  • May 25, 2009, 7:18 a.m. CST

    it failed...

    by SunTzu77

    ...because of a sh*tty script and mediocre acting.

  • May 25, 2009, 7:21 a.m. CST


    by SunTzu77

    "he should have happened upon Kyle Reese and the little girl. When they are taken prisoner by Skynet, that is when he crosses paths with the female pilot...who takes him to the resistance's main ground base in that area." <p> Cut out the black mute girl that doesn't contribute sh*t and proceed with your tale.

  • May 25, 2009, 8:09 a.m. CST

    Worst summer so far.

    by knowthyself

    Star Trek was good but hardly as good as last summers best.

  • May 25, 2009, 8:57 a.m. CST

    who sees the movie because of Bale?

    by j2talk

    I mean seriously? Bale has been in big "geek" films but in all of them he has been upstaged, his acting is one note, can anybody point to a non genre film that he has carried?...personally- and I doubt I am the only one- I see these films DESPITE the fact that he is in them....

  • May 25, 2009, 3:54 p.m. CST

    AsimovLives: I Think That Was Overseas...

    by Media Messiah

    ...not in the U.S. I think, but perhaps you are right, still, these things have a way of building, and there is no death of Heath Ledger to cover Bale's on-set Terminator antics, no distracttion for the bad press he is generating...and largely, that killed Terminator for female audiences, they did not show for the movie...and it was in the advanced tracking numbers for the film--females were largely not interested in the movie according to the demographic breakdown of the polling. You have to then ask yourself, what changed in-between the time of TDK's release, and the release of Terminator Salvation, that suddenly, and expressly, turned-off female audiences to a Christian Bale project? Answer, his onset rant. Hell, you'll even notice that for the very few females who do tend to comment on's Talkbacks, they didn't even bother to post about ths movie, largely...and even's sole female critic didn't even bother to review the film...that should inform us all as to why--and the common denominator appears to be Christian Bale.

  • May 25, 2009, 4:10 p.m. CST

    nother Fault With The Film. Terminator Is About Time Travel

    by Media Messiah

    There was no time travel in this film...whatsoever? As well, we got a Mad Max future, but saw no real glimpse of the future war as dramatized by James Cameron in terms of look, i.e., the human skulls marking the landscape, so high that everywhere you see, is a human skull. What happened to that? What happened to the big silver Terminator Hunter Killer Tanks and copters, their lasers, etc??? Most of the look just disappeared in this movie? And where were the dogs that detect Terminators, so on, and so forth? <BR><BR>However more than anything, this film was missing its time travel elements...yet another thing that undermined the film--a film that although flawed, was, and is, the best movie of the summer, although that isn't saying much, as all of the big blockbuster films of the summer, so far, are not very good as films, to begin with.

  • May 25, 2009, 4:29 p.m. CST

    Remember when this site was pimping The Mist?

    by lockesbrokenleg

    That was a piece of shit compared to this movie.

  • May 25, 2009, 7:04 p.m. CST

    terminator salvation

    by gibbo70

    Thought Beaks review was spot on. I'm a huge terminator fan but must agree with him that the following films (yes even T2) are a cash in on the love and cult status of the original film. And yes John Connor is a whiner throughout his whole presence in the franchise!!

  • May 25, 2009, 9:43 p.m. CST

    T4 is crap, and T2 still sucks

    by Eli_Cash

  • May 26, 2009, 9:51 p.m. CST

    Star Trek...

    by SunTzu77

    Star Trek was released on a Friday and made $75,204,289 opening weekend. Terminator was released on a Thursday and made $65,316,217 (opening weekend). Not a fan of either... but there is a slight bit of difference... let's see how much it drops off for TS this week.